Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this is a little bit of a historical moment, well, a
historical moment.
I'm not quite sure which, because there are now, what, over 800
episodes of Star Trek, right?
That is terrifying.
We've got to get through them all.
We do, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'll be long dead.
But, um, this is actually the 3rd one, to be made.
So, like you have the cage, like the original pilot that doesn't
air until much later and is sort of chopped up to create the
menagerie part one and two.
And then you have where no man has gone before, which is the 2nd
pilot, which isn't the 1st episode to air.
And then this one is the 3rd one ever made.
And this is kind of where it all starts to cohere into the series
that kind of continues from this point on.
However, it's very confusing because you said to me the other day
yes, this is the, you know, this is the 3rd episode, how
exciting.
And then I'm looking for it on next, and it's like episode 10.
Yeah, of which after painstaking research that took me many, many
days, I discovered that this was May 3rd, it was aired 10th
because there was extensive effects work, and I watched the
version on Netflix with new effects, but I've seen the version of
the old effects, and for the time they're extraordinary.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about that because I think that's
actually a super interesting topic of conversation.
I have to say just going in, spoilers, that I really enjoyed
this.
I do think it's paced very slow and perhaps slower.
I mean, I think even than other Star Trek, the original series
episodes.
The thing that, now, we have a love of random trek by Scott
McNulty, and we will continue to mention this man's name until he
invites us on.
Sorry, Scott.
I hope you're listening to this.
If not, I'm going to act you.
But he, like, he makes a really good point that at 50 minutes
pretty much every single original series episode, is about 10
minutes too long. and there is some flab.
I'd say this is about 20 minutes too long.
Like there's a lot of and there's a lot of deliberate doing
nothing because they can't do anything.
That's the point.
But after like 50 minutes of that, you're like, okay, well, yeah
we need to bloody do something now, you know.
Well, I mean, the episode that we watched last time was 55 minutes
long, which was the Discovery episode because it's on a streaming
service and so it can be as long or as short as it likes.
And of course, that's the thing, and it's a thing that I always
think the advantage that discovery has over other treks is that
we've got better at making television and we've got better at
consuming it.
And so there are all sorts of things available to discovery that
just aren't available to the original series.
But you and I have a long history of watching incredibly cheap
vintage television as Doctor Who fans.
And this is more colourful and visually more impressive, generally
speaking than what Doctor Who was doing at the same time.
Well, it's very strange, you know, because I think you're right in
what you say there, and clearly they've got more money.
It's all on film.
It is more expensively made.
I don't think it's anywhere near as atmospheric as the best of
black and white Doctor Who, which was coming out concurrently.
Um, So I think, I think there is absolutely something to that
Black Knight era of Doctor Who.
That Star Trek doesn't have it.
What they have here is the ability to kind of wow the audience
with set pieces and things like that, which, you know, I don't
think there's intervenience science fiction.
There was nothing in science fiction doing that at all, was there
at the time, you know?
So I said to you this morning, going into this, I could see
absolutely why this captured people.
Yeah, and that was my overwhelming feeling as well.
Uh, My husband's been watching Young Sheldon, which is sort of
very gentle and, uh, you know, not great, but not at all terrible
uh, American, sort of dramity, I guess.
And just seeing Little Sheldon watch Star Trek sort of very early
on knowing how obsessed he would become with it.
And this reminded me of that.
I could just imagine 10 year olds, 12 year olds, whatever watching
this and just ending up with a lifelong love of this show.
So it's a tiny bit ropey in all sorts of ways, but it's absolutely
great.
It is.
It's original, like, especially with modern day reading, it is
troubling in so many ways.
Oh, we'll get there too.
But like my mum was one of those.
My mum was young children, you know, and she said, and this was
kind of, this was rerun a few times and she washed it through
every single time was absolutely, she used to go around her, her
little mate's house and they used to sit there and watch it on a
black and white TV so they weren't singing it in like full
technicolour.
But it absolutely, it captured her, absolutely captured that.
And she was straight there for Next Generation because she had
that memory of that love of Star Trek when she was younger.
Yeah.
By the way, we have managed to talk for 10 minutes and not mention
the episode that we were actually talking about.
Well, it's in everyone's podcatcher.
So it's the Corbamite maneuver.
And it was 1st broadcast.
I have the date right here on the 10th of November 1966.
Do you know, as soon as I hear, the court might maneuver.
There's only one thing, I think, about.
What's that?
Clint Howard.
No. da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
Oh, my word, the score.
The music is so good.
It's so great.
Compared to what we mostly get on 90s trek, this music is really
really trivic.
And a bit cheesy as well.
I'm completely ready to skip into the Corp might maneuver
reviewer.
Yep, absolutely.
All right.
I've got it queued up.
So I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Let's go.
So what do you think of the new effects?
So we can see the enterprise here.
This is like the 1st shot, I think, from the pilot.
Yeah, I think they are very...
Oh, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm going to ignore your question
immediately.
And just talk about that incredible camera angle there that shoots
up into the ceiling and down into the panel.
And I know I know you...
You complain when they do this on discovery.
I complain when they start running around people in discovery in
circles constantly.
And I'm taking, you know, giddy sickness tablets.
But that's just that's just a visually striking way of setting a
scene because now the cameras are quite, you know, state.
The new effects.
I think they are very, very good and they don't go too far, i.e
they don't try and make it, um, too out of what they possibly
could have achieved at the time if they had the techniques.
Um, so it's there are similar effects.
They just look cleaner and then they just look more stylish.
Yeah, yeah. they're sort of sympathetic, I think.
My, my kind of feeling is, you know, this is important TV and it
would be a bad thing if we couldn't watch the original version, but
it's not Shakespeare.
And if we if we can do something to keep it alive, you know, to
keep future generations watching it.
Because my memory of it when I was a kid was that some of the
episodes were in a pretty bad state and you would put them on and
they were, they just looked shockingly bad.
And so this remaster with these new effects, I think, has
increased, you know, the lifespan of this show.
The 1st time I saw the original series cleaned up was DS9's trials
and tribulations, and I was like, my God, this looks so good.
They cleaned up the original series episodes, it would look really
striking and it does.
I've got a question for you straight off the bat.
Yeah, yeah.
I think I had this really strong impression watching this of
people at work in space, yeah?
Now, in 90s trek, I feel like we, you know, it's, it's a very kind
of frenzy.
It's like a group of people that love, you know, get on and then
just hang out on the bridge and have adventures.
This just felt like these people were genuinely doing like a 9 to
five, but in space.
I kind of like that, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's kind of the premise.
All right, here we go.
This is the 1st time that we get these titles with Kirk's Space
the Final Frontiers Space.
Yeah.
Well, it's one of many firsts in this. but yeah.
It's definitely the 1st time that happens.
And, you know, that's iconic, right?
Picard, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They do it in the films over and over again.
Wasn't there a discovery episode where they did a TOS sequel which
had a voiceover at the beginning.
Oh, I can't remember now.
Oh, shame on you, Nathan.
Honestly, no.
I know.
Why am I not rewatching that?
rely on you for this information, you know.
Because they do end up going to Psi 2000 or whatever the, the, um
planet from the cage.
I can't remember if it's that.
Oh, that was a, that was fantastic.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so I think, you know, the revolving cube in a way, which is
casting light on the Enterprise here in this updated effect shot
is just terribly striking an interesting.
It's a surprising visual.
You know, it's not a spaceship.
And maybe they, oh, Christ, Kirk Scottish shirt off.
Yeah, no, he gets his shirt off, right?
And he walks all the way through the corridors.
Oh, yeah, yeah, onto the fridge.
I mean, he doesn't make it to the bridge. is already meteoric at
this point.
He's like, no, I've been working out. going to show it off, all
right?
Do you think that cube is a precursor?
Like, I got very strong.
Borg vibes because they say at one point we can't outrun it.
We can't do it. and these are exact lines that Q says to Picard in
Q Hu about the ball cube when it 1st appears.
Yeah, except that what's striking about that.
Like, it's like they're, they're being chased by these sort of
geometric solids, you know, they're not comprehensible.
The Borg cube has, you know, pipes and wires and lights and they
go over to the cube, don't they?
And, you know, there's the baby in the incapator and clearly
terrible things are happening.
Like, it's, it's bad.
Whereas this is very benign.
But that's kind of interesting as well.
How do we feel about Kirk here with his shirt off?
No objections, really?
I'm more concerned about the heavy makeup he's got in his face, if
I'm honest.
No, that's true.
I mean, anyone who looked like him who got their shirt off on a TV
show now would be immediately hauled off to prison probably, or
fat camp, but he, I think he looks pretty good.
And...
I mean, I like a man with a little bit of a time in my monitor
beer, you know, insecurities and all that.
Look how busy these corridors are.
I mean, what is that man doing feeling the wall at the back?
Did you see him?
Look at him just walking through with his shirt draped over his
shoulders showing everyone his stomach.
I've got to say, though, this is why this is why it's so much
cooler than Picard, all right?
Carl would never walk around with his hairy white chest out, would
he?
Well, do you remember when Picard, is it in Starship Mine?
Or in 1st contact where he gets his shirt off and he's been
working out.
Captain's Holiday. draped in this, like, shawl with his chest out
the whole...
Oh, man.
Now this character here, Bailey.
Okay.
Really, really interesting because he's like the Reg Barclay of
the original series.
I know we don't see him again after this, but it's the same sort
of it.
We don't often get characters like this that are struggling.
Like regular Star Trek characters that are struggling to perform
within the Star Trek universe.
I really liked this angle in this episode.
Yeah, I did too.
And it's, like, it's not terrifically strong character work, but
it is like, it is interesting and particularly, I like the
contrast between him and Spock.
You know, we had that little bit of banter between him and Spock
where Spock kind of completely cuts him dead.
But I also like, um, there's the whole idea of Kirk and McCoy
talking about him. and that Kirk's pushing him too hard. because
he wants to see what he's made out of and he pushes him so hard
that later on.
He has a complete meltdown on the bridge, you know, of very
dramatic proportions.
Yeah, it's super interesting too, because it gives Kirk some, there
there's your steady cam, uh, uh, camera into the bridge.
Yeah, it's really impressive.
Here's our 1st Uhura moment.
Can I just say, like, this is a bit of a cliche to say this, but
Michelle Nichols is so beautiful.
Isn't she?
And you know what?
And I don't ever want to take away the importance of having a
person of colour in an important role set in the future. you know
like, um, the, the, Whoopi Goldberg is also young Sheldon in this
as well, watching this, and, and, and it pushes her in a new
direction in her life because this was so eye-opening.
She says she was sitting there and screaming out to her mum, mum
mum, there's a black woman on the TV, you know, and she's not a
maid.
Yeah, yeah.
It is pretty great.
I mean, you know, Star Trek has always sort of tried to have
diverse casts, I think.
And this, you know, because you've got Sulu here as well.
Um, and and there are sort of black extras in uniforms sort of
wandering around and stuff and, you know, next season we get check
off to kind of indicate.
Chekhov's like the wharf of TOS because it's like we've had this
war and now it's over and he's one of us.
You know, all of that stuff is particularly great, I think.
I do have a question for you, though, because we were talking
about queer representation in forget me not last week.
Now, obviously, to have a personal colour in a position like this
at the time was, you know, huge and hugely different from the norm
yeah.
Yeah.
Why couldn't they do that with queer representation as well?
They were bold enough to do this.
Why didn't they do that as well?
Yeah, I mean.
I just don't think it was a thing in the 60s at all, was it?
Was there a queer representation on television that wasn't sort of
comedy characters?
Oh, really?
Even in the 70s, if I'm honest, there were, you know, Mr. Humphreys
are you being certain things like that?
But it's all it's all like a parody of that sort of person rather
than...
Yeah, so this is this our 1st sort of observation lounge thing
only their observation lounge has no fucking windows in it, you
know.
Did you see Ahura sitting there?
She looks super bored.
Now, if Council Troy or Beverly Crusher, look that bored when
Picard was talking, he'd have a few things to say.
It also as well.
It is very strange to see Ahura in gold.
I'm so used to seeing her in red.
Yeah.
Oh, they're cute.
Yeah, we can't hear the music.
This is the one bad thing about doing this with the sound down.
Yes, that's right.
That xylophone is going crazy right now.
So it's doing a lot of the job of making this tense because
essentially there's no action here.
This is a bunch of people sitting in a room talking and it's
entirely what we call word peril on flight through entirety.
You know, there's no, there's no kind of visible threat.
And so they're just relying on the acting and the music, I think
to produce that.
Does that make this the 1st Star Trek bottle show?
It does, doesn't it?
Yeah, well, I guess so.
They don't go anywhere.
No one beams down or anything.
But it's not like TOS can't do action because there's a ton of
action in TOS.
There's lots of fights, you know, there's lots of stuff that they
punch the money to do it.
Think of arena.
The whole thing's a massive fight on there in the desert.
But I mean, it doesn't mean they lean more into characterisation.
And I find that, you know me, that's my inning Star Trek.
So I found that really interesting here.
I also think too, that this episode and we'll get there does a
very good job of stating the purpose of the show.
Like as a mission statement.
You know, at the point, at this point, they haven't even yet
invented the Federation, right?
Right.
They could, what do they call it?
They call it something else.
There's something.
In fact, the Baylock or whatever, Baylock?
I want to say Blaylock, but that's that's Tapol.
Like he's from a thing called the Federation, isn't he?
So they haven't...
When he said that at the end, I was so confused.
I was like, okay.
Yeah, you know what they hadn't?
At the beginning of this, they say that there are no star maps for
the area of space that they're in.
So this is literally into the unknown they're going into here.
It's what Star Trek Discovery is doing in series three.
But I mean, it is the, it's the, you know, to explore strange new
worlds to seek out new life and new civilisation.
So this is, you know, this is our 1st kind of business as usual
episode.
You know, we've had 2 pilots and then we do this.
And so this is very clearly them doing, you know, kind of stating
what they want the show to be able to be.
And in a way, like this is like a submarine film, isn't it?
You know, they're in a vessel and someone's panicking and they
have to sort of fire weapons and stuff.
Oh, that... visually it leans into that as well because the lights
come down and it's kind of red lit, isn't it?
when it's when they're in danger So it is, you know, basically
hunt for red October.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
There are some top quality throwing themselves around the set
happening just there.
You'll always get that in TOS, you know.
Sometimes I randomly throw myself around my house, you know
because I've been attacked by a false on torpedo.
Oh, as I was going to say.
Yeah, sorry.
So that whole thing about going into the unknown.
TOS then populates this aerospace over time.
Then next generation does the same thing.
It takes the same weld, but it gives them, you know, huge amounts
of depth compared to this.
Um, and then they have to start making excuses to go into the
unknown. you've got the wormhole in DS 9.
You've got the Delta Quadrant in Voyager, you've got the, what is
it, the expanse in Enterprise, and then you're going into the
future in Discovery.
Yeah, Discovery.
Because they want to lean into the same premise so that, you know
we don't know what's out there.
But, um, this and TNG do such a good job of, of basically creating
the alpha quadrant in a lot of detail.
Yeah, well, I mean, the problem now is you've got memory alpha
with detailed articles on literally everything that's ever
happened in Star Trek.
And so there is no unknown.
There's nowhere to fit those stories anymore.
And this is what I talked about last week a little bit, I think
that there is a problem now with 800 episodes and trek continuity
being so kind of rigid.
Yeah, terrifying.
No, I know you're saying that sarcastically. but let's not
forget.
I get all my trivia from memory alpha, okay?
It's an incredibly useful resource.
Thank you to everybody out there to contribute.
No, no, I agree.
I agree.
Oh, okay, so I've got a question for you about the trio of Kirk
and Spock and Bones.
This is McCoy's 1st episode.
Watching this, I could never have told.
This is where he came in.
He is he is incredibly good.
And you have 3 incredibly strong leads, I think. in, you know, in
these three.
Um, And what I like about it is that they all represent very
strong positions.
You know, they're well characterised, partly through the actors
performances, but also because, as happens here, as is established
here, Spock is kind of emotionless, and we'll talk more about that
later, and we see him in charge.
Um, you know, like Kirk's drinking right now, for God's sake, God
knows.
Well, dice, this this really made me feel like, you know, this was
an established relationship because it's it's very relaxed.
It's kind of gently mocking like friends are, you know?
Yeah, no, it's really very well done.
And so, you know, you've got an alien and a human.
You've got someone who's emotionless, you've got someone who is
you know, grumpy and, you know, concerned about human welfare and
all of that sort of thing.
And then you've got someone trying to decide between them in the
middle.
I think, um, De Forrest Kelly is the funniest actor in the show
and he delivers his lines, like, he's like the Nicholas Courtney
of this show.
You know, he delivers his line with comic rock.
I am sometimes a little concerned by his characterisation which
virtues on, you know, space racism.
He is so toxic to spock at times.
Yeah. it just won't give him a chance.
And sometimes I'm like, okay, they've decided this is his main
characteristic and they just push it and push it.
As the show gets less subtle as it goes along and you're hit into
series 3, when people are kind of taking their eye off the scripts
he's a bit of a bully.
Right.
But, but, you know, like his relationship with Spocky's
antagonistic because their interests are different and they
represent different points of view.
It's almost like the 3 of them sort of, you know, they're like, you
know, ego and super ego or something.
You know, enough why you're here.
But really, don't you think?
You know, you've got Spock who's sort of supremely rational, you've
got, um, McCoy who's driven by emotion and then you've got Kirk
there who has to chart between them and make a sort of decision.
Yeah.
And you know, I also want to say, no, like the best of that
characterisation, McCoy and Spock.
It's like the best of Star Trek, you know, and how they learn from
each other.
And that kind of grudging affection relationship has been repeated
in every single style.
Like, that is a formula that works.
Odo and Quark.
I hate to say it, but Neelix and Chewbok.
Um, Let's see, immersive we got.
Who are the who's like the bones and spock of discovery?
Well, I don't know.
I mean, there's a sort of antagonistic and friendly relationship
between Tilly and Stammets, isn't there?
And Stamets is kind of grumpy and a little bit prickly and she's
sort of very human.
I would have said stammets and that.
The female character, the engineer.
Yeah, Tilly, Tilly.
Oh, Jet Reno.
Yeah.
That's more antagonistic.
Well, it doesn't happen quite so much.
He's not in it all the time.
So now he's the 2nd of our geometric shapes, regular geometric
shapes.
This effect shot is really, I really love this.
Like, when I 1st watched this, I wasn't sure if I was watching the
original or not, and I was like, and I got to this bit, and I was
like, 0 no, I'm watching the new effects now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of detail there.
You said to me and forget me not, you know, about how previously
Star Trek didn't really throw weird imagery at you.
That's pretty weird.
That is pretty weird.
And the original is weirder.
In fact, this makes it a little bit more obvious that it's a
constructed object.
You know, you can see like under those dome things.
You can see pipes and stuff running.
So that's actually a bit of a shame because it was a bit more
abstract and that was one of the things that was interesting about
it.
I was getting like a bit of a beehive feel about it with all those
different segments, you know.
Yep.
Never very far from my thoughts.
No, I know.
But what I really like about this is, they can't, like, Spock
sorry, Spock, Kirk often comes from a position of power, right?
I've got my weapons on you.
He's all very he's very gung-ho.
But with this thing, yeah, which isn't even talking at the
moment.
They can't escape it.
They can't get away from it.
They can't negotiate with it.
They can't attack it and they can't even intimidate it.
So they've got to try and figure it out and I like the puzzle.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, it is like spoiler alert, they get out of it
because he does something clever.
And that's, you know, for an action adventure show aimed at, you
know, teenage boys probably. you know, doing that rather than
outgunning the enemy.
That's a good thing.
I think.
But again, it's very unusual for Star Trek.
Like, I think it's unusual to have a puzzle this simple as well.
Like this thing is in front of us.
How do we communicate with it?
And essentially, you know, the ultimate conclusion is just be
nice.
You know, it's just this kid, and let's just be nice to be
friendly with him, you know?
Well, and that's the mission statement of the show, though, isn't
it?
That is the we are here to make peace.
We are explorers.
Uh, you know, we don't start fights.
Are you talking about seeking out new lives and new
civilisations?
Although there is a there is a quite a strong masculine word in
the next statement to boldly go where no one has gone before?
Yeah, but you know, like I like that.
And, you know, Catherine Janeway boldly goes.
So does Michael.
Heck, I certainly does.
I love her series 3 hair.
I have to say.
There's some great.
We still haven't seen as we record, we still haven't seen
Discovery Series 4, but some of the promotional images have some
really terrific hair happening.
So I'm looking forward to.
You know what I love?
The voices started talking now.
Yeah, Baylock's voice or the faux Baylock voice.
And it's that kind of RP.
Isn't it?
very posh.
Hello?
You will be destroyed.
All Star Trek aliens sound like this in TOS.
I just think they...
How many computers do?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No.
That's that's just normal.
Oh, Mr. Mr. Bailey's.
No, he's starting to lose it.
Oh, there you go.
We throwing ourselves around again.
Oh, that's a that was a great one from Kirk.
Shall we write them?
as we watch the TOS episodes. about the same accent.
I mean, I'm convinced I'm never going to see anyone doing anything
as a depth as that man who was stroking the wall in the corridor
scene.
I don't know why you're doing that.
No, who knows?
He's probably friends with it I think...
And look, the alien, because this is sort of America in the 1960s
the alien is giving them time to prey before.
Before he blows them up, which is pretty great.
I bet Baylock's having great fun, you know, on the intercom.
I'm going wind them right up.
And then and then I'm going to offer them a drink.
She does at the end of the episode.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's it is this simple thing because it's our 3rd episode.
We're doing something so simple that we would never, ever be able
to get away with later.
And I think the Enterprise tries to pull this crap in its 1st
series where it kind of goes, all right, we'll have an away
mission, but it'll be the 1st away mission ever.
And, uh, well, that's the episode, you know, and it just doesn't
quite land because there's a lot of episodes in Enterprise Series
one where not a lot happens and they're trying to lean into the
characterisation like this, but the characters just aren't as
strong.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, yeah.
I mean, the characters are...
Like, they do have particular points of view, but at the moment it
is mostly down to the performances.
And holy crap, can I just say that I don't think you hear people
praising William Shatner for his performance enough because I
think he is absolutely magnificent.
And like it may all go to hell in series three.
But, you know, he's like, it's actually a bit shocking when he
starts to tell Bailey off because he is the commander, but he is
the he's relaxed in a really interesting way, in a way that Picard
isn't.
And there's good humour there as well.
Like, he's often amused, like visibly amused.
I think with Shatner, and I've seen him go on and do, like
terrific work in, like, is it Boston Legalism?
Um, the, Yeah, yeah. and in films as well.
He's he's done some terrifically funny roles in films.
At this point, yeah, there was a big buzz about Star Trek.
This was like a prestige show and he is giving it is all as if
he's doing just a regular drain.
He's giving a very naturalistic performance as Kirk.
I don't think it's until series 3, like you said, where there's
lots of behind the scenes difficulties, it's clear this isn't
going to run for much longer.
The scripts are lousy and he just cuts loose and comes like madly
over the top.
But like, like, in the episode after, I think it's the episode
that was filmed after this, the one way he's split into 2 and uh
it's good Kirk and Backo.
And there was every, every single opportunity there of him to
completely ham it up.
He's bloody terrifying as the evil kirk and he brings it down.
He doesn't overplay it.
So I think throughout the whole of series one.
He's given it his all, like, like everything Shatner has to give
and that's a lot.
Yeah, he is really good.
Now, Bailey is losing his shit now, and he's doing some really
incredible hand acting.
Look at that.
He's sweat.
He's like, he's like someone pleading in a high school play.
My work's very good.
But work's on enough. frustrating in front of you here.
But it is, I do like the fact that he has a meltdown, like
publicly as well.
And then and then they kind of have to deal with the fallout of
that.
Like Kirk's like, oh, balls.
I, you know, I've, I have pushed him too far.
And McCoy actually, McCoy points that out and says, yeah, yeah, you
did wrong.
No, it's your fault.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
But look how steely he looks there.
Actually, this is also not a popular opinion, but I think Shatner
is actually fairly pretty at this age too.
Oh, sure, very, very good looking in those eyes and stuff.
But it's not a sort of show is populated by very prissy men.
Sulu is very pretty.
Chekov is very pretty.
Oh, the hair doesn't help.
I love that.
I love that monkey's hair.
What you talking about?
Obviously, Ahura is very prissy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look at his eyes.
You know, he does wear like a lot of makeup and stuff like that.
Okay, they're tapes.
They haven't invented isolinear chips yet.
And so all their records are on tapes.
But it's like you said the other day, right?
Imagine.
Imagine, because obviously Discovery is set before this.
Yeah, yeah. in the timeline, imagine if they'd gone back and done
this technology again.
Yeah, people were complaining.
People were complaining about that and I just thought that's
baffling.
And part of it is too, that I think discovery wants to get away
from the idea that it's not a TV show, you know, that it's a world
into things that happen.
You know, that it's not a viewport into the future or anything.
It's a TV show about the future.
And so it plays with Star Trek and with its continuity, it has a
really fractious relationship with it.
But I almost think that that skip into the future, not just in
narrative terms, by doing that, it allows them to visually just go
mad and be as creative as they want and as modern as they want, you
know.
Yeah.
I agree.
What, you see, you see the console, the screens at the back there
with the lights kind of, it's all about.
They don't do anything.
Okay, it's just pretty.
Pure, okay, tech, really.
Well, I don't know.
Look, you know, again, Star Trek the Next Generation kind of has a
better story for the screens, doesn't it?
But even there, just sort of flashing lights behind glass.
Don't you even come at me saying that that next generation bridge
sets better than this.
It's so boring compared.
This is so colourful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, remember when Discovery recreated the, the, the enterprise
bridge and just lent into the red, you know, the red door and the
red railings and stuff.
And it made it look like a, you know, the bridge of a ship from
that show made in, you know, 2018 or whatever.
Every time 90s trek went back to the original relics when they
went onto the bridge with Scotty.
In the last season of Enterprise, they had the Mirror Universe
episode, which lent into all that TOS design work.
It just highlights just how much more efficiently interesting this
is, the 90s.
Well, it's, you know, Paul.
It's simple and it's colourful.
It's pleasing on the eye.
And I'll tell you what, the way that's designed at circular, it
allows them to shoot from every single angle.
It's an interesting set to shoot the episode in.
Yeah, and the sort of primary colours and stuff are kind of nice.
I just think too that, you know, that sort of 60s design, like who
doesn't have a soft spot for how, you know, interior decorating?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But like, but like even how they shoot like TNG, because it's
always the cameras always wear the viewscreen.
It's shooting at everyone, sat in manoeuvred positions, so they're
all like, it's so boring.
I know it's comfortable, but it's like compared to this where he's
coming in over his shoulder and it's zooming up for noises.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't think I'd be watching TOS and saying, wow, this is more
visually interesting than what happens in 20 years time, but in
some places it is.
Well, I mean, it's telling that they never go back to a TNG style
bridge and that, you know, the next ship, you know, that Voyager
is flat and circular and, you know, doesn't have massive empty
spaces for the cameras to move around in.
And the defiant in DSI is literally a submarine, isn't it?
Like, when that comes down and the red lights come on.
It is, it is, yeah.
Okay, I've completely lost track of what's occurring now. happening
in the episode?
Well, no, this is the Corbamite maneuver.
So it is him telling lies about Corbamite.
And threatening him.
Um, did we have the bit?
Did we talk all the way through the bit where Spock, um, So
there's there's 2 striking moments for Spock, one is the poker
thing.
You know, where they're talking about poker.
And that gives Jim the idea of how to deal with this or is that
yet to come?
Because this looks like a blast.
No, but that's that is something that they nick ad nauseam in 90s
trek, that kind of the tortured metaphor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But this is our 1st one so we can kind of forgive it.
Get away with it.
Yeah.
And that line there.
West boxes.
Baylock is reminiscent of his father.
And you kind of think, holy crap, there's, you know, decades of
possible therapy there.
You know?
There's a wonderful bit of trivia that is relevant to a scene
coming up now.
Um, where in the script, Spock is uh, said to react fearfully to
the Balok puppet that appears on the screen, and the director said
to Leonard NY, do not play it like that.
I want you to just look at it and be like, fascinating and be
intrigued rather than terrified.
And like you said to me before we press record.
That is literally how they characterise the Vulcans.
And it was improvised in this episode.
It's pretty incredible how contingent it all is.
You know, we wouldn't have had the Vulcans, the way that we do, if
it wasn't for that particular moment.
I love this too.
He's gone away.
He's had a bit of a cry in his quarters, Mr. Bailey, and now he's
back.
And look at Jim's smile.
Like he doesn't give anything away to Bailey.
Like permission granted, but there is a sort of curl of his lip
where, you know, he's just been told off by McCoy.
Just saw what he slick thing.
He slipped back into his seat like a naughty child, like, okay, I'm
back, guys.
Hi.
But you know, in AT&G episode, the meltdown would happen like in
the final act and that it would almost be like for showing that
emotion, that's it.
You out of the episode now.
I don't think they do that.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, the coda of him coming back.
No that's right.
I'm desperate to know which is, I sent you before I wrote a bet.
In this episode, they filmed a reaction shot of George TK.
Um, looking at the screen, then turning to Kirk, and then they
just reused it in countless episodes going in, I wonder which shot
is. should have been keeping an eye out.
Well, they couldn't film a new shot of George Decay reacting all
the time.
Ah, unless unless they thought, well, maybe he would only be in
this one episode.
Oh, no, I think it's kind of like, oh, crap, we need someone to
react to this or shall we get the old shot of George out of the
can and use that?
Like they find they don't have coverage or something.
Someone forgot to shoot anyone reacting to the giant green hand
holding the enterprise source section or something.
This is true as well.
Like throughout the episode, even I think they space it apart a
bit too long.
You know, we have the cube and then we have the weird geodesic
thing and then we have the creature.
So it is kind of building, it's getting more dramatic as it goes
along.
But it's like 20 minutes between each drop, you know, like...
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, look at his smile there.
He's so excited.
And it like the original Spock as well, from the cage, he had like
a much more sort of demonic look, didn't he?
And he was very emotional.
It was number one in the cage that was the emotionless character.
Yeah.
Well, there's a moment here where he says he's sorry and then he
corrects himself and, you know, says he regrets something.
Instead.
You know, like he's he's already kind of there, isn't he?
And he does, he, you know, cuts Bailey down in conversation
earlier on in the bridge.
Can I tell you a story very quickly about this creature that's on
the screen right now?
Yeah.
The fake bail. generations of kids Well, okay, so I obviously came
into Star Trek via the next generation.
Okay, so I asked for a Star Trek video for my birthday, okay?
And I could see it wrapped up and it was clearly a VHS and I
unwrapped it on my birthday with absolute excitement. you know, 0
my god, it's going to be justice and when the bowel breaks or
something amazing like that.
And what was there?
An original Star Trek video.
Oh my, and I was absolutely devastated.
I'm like, what's it?
I don't want to watch this.
What is the new one, right?
Obviously I'm young. 9 years old at this point.
Um, and very unreasonable. as a lot of children are at that age.
Anyways, I watched the episode.
With my sister and at the end of the episodes, isn't it?
There's the Baylock creature on the credits, right?
Well, that just made my day because honest to God, that Baylock
Christian looks like my nanny Ford.
She was miserable looking at that.
And we always just put that little bit on and goes, Nanny Ford
it's Nanny Ford.
I don't know why that's relevant to anything, but as soon as I saw
it on the screen, I'm like, 0 my god, it's nanny four.
Well, I've heard, like, countless people talk about being scared
shitless by the still photo of that in the closing credits.
Like, it is a thing.
She honestly, she looked as miserable as that creature.
All the time.
Look, we just got a reaction shot of Janet, and we didn't talk
about her before.
I'm sorry, Janice.
They're in the middle of a...
They're in the middle of a bloody crisis and she's just coming
with some coffee.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, she hates it with a phaser in the galley.
You know, I thought you might be a bit stressed, doing some
caffeine.
You just get out of my face.
Like he says in this, doesn't he?
So initially I was like, oh, okay, this is a bit sex. you know
he's got this woman pampering after him.
But he says he says, I can't believe they gave me a female
yeoman.
So there's clearly male ones as well.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, that doesn't take away from the fact that, you know
for the next 3 years we see her sort of carrying clipboards and
trays of drink and stuff all over the place.
No, she doesn't make it past series one.
Oh, doesn't she?
She's written out in series one.
Yeah. something happened behind the scenes.
They weren't happy with her and she is summarily executed from the
series.
They bring her back in one of the films and she's shockingly bad.
No, as bad as when they brought her back in Voyager.
Well, you can't even tell who it is anymore.
You know, like, I don't know, people age.
I'm not going to be mean about that, but No, no, have a back.
But she walks in with this like tea tray going, hello, young
cadets, ready for another exciting day in the Federation or
something.
Oh, it's ghastly.
I hope we get that episode soon.
So now we have our 3rd thing.
It's a little cluster of balls.
It's shuttle.
Well, that's what that's all we have.
I know what you're talking about, actually. politics.
Oh, God, there's so much going on in that. all those consoles
bleeping and lighting on and off.
Do you know what?
For the next generation, you know, when they sort of touch all the
buttons. because there's no indication of what any of it does.
I just thought it was the most sophisticated technology that I'd
ever seen in my life. which seems coloured lives.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, we didn't really have touchscreens then.
There were those sort of terrible...
I don't know what you call them, but the ones that relied on
pressure and stuff instead of the capacity of ones.
I would also that point out, though, I was given a Rubik's cue and
a speak and spell, and I thought those were the height of
technology as well.
So you know, I was easily impressed as a child.
Well, they were back then, I guess.
Okay, so they're following this, what, is it like a shuttle
leading them somewhere?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no.
And again, it just seems to be kind of playing out the running
time at this point.
You know, like the threat of death, which I thought was good
because it was kind of like hugely abstract, and it is a little
bit like that 1st encounter with the Borg in TNG or the maybe at
best of both worlds, where they're kind of relentless and they
don't respond to anything that you do.
Like there's nothing, they're kind of impassable.
You can't, you can't affect them in any way.
And I thought that was really good.
And I think that that is the sort of thing that would have
terrified me as a child because it's that scary, deep voice and it
is the, you know, you're going to die in a mysterious way that
we're not going to specify and there's nothing that you can do to
stop it.
And I, you know, I think that Star Trek, the Next Generation tends
to be a little bit more kind of, oh, God, look at those guys.
Oh, yes.
They're holding up the wall, those ones.
Not even against him.
Yeah, but I think this is scarier than I think this is sometimes
than next gen.
Except for that episode where Negulum appears on the view screen
the unknowable face and turns Dr. Pulaski and a puppet and she
starts dancing around.
That's hilarious Oh my god.
But also as well.
I've lamented the fact that not a lot happens in this episode, but
I actually want to nick something that you say quite a lot in a
lot of podcasting and that is.
Sometimes it's just nice to be with these characters and we're
early in the run and these are great characters to spend time
with.
So if I'm going to spend time doing nothing.
I'd like to do it with the original series ensemble because
they're really fun to be around.
Yeah, no I think that's fair enough.
Did you say Leonard Nimmo at the back of the set?
They're kind of like, dramatically wobbling against the wall
hilarious.
Deforest is doing it in that.
No, Egypt's like, he looks like he's sitting on a washing
machine.
Oh no, no.
No, no, no, it looks like he's wanking.
Oh, come on, this is too much.
Oh, we're at Mason.
We are going to have so much fun with TOS.
I can just tell.
Because also as well, it's all 90s strike is a little bit
apologetic and wants to be kind of serious, whereas TOS is happy
to just go for it, you know?
Yeah, and I actually think that instinct is right.
I think there's no, you know, like, like TNG goes out of its way
to distance itself from TOS, doesn't it?
Like there are no Vulcans until, you know, much.
Oh, well, series 2, I guess.
Oh, wow, look at that model shot.
I think you'll find that CGI, Nathan.
Yes, I know.
I know.
Well, computer models.
Um, uh, you know, they avoid Vulcans, they avoid Andorians and, you
know, Tellerites and stuff like that.
But then subsequent series that just loved, you know, TOS and the
current iteration of Star Trek under Kurtzman is full of massive
fans of it.
It's constantly being right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm thinking DSI as well, Ron Moore and Ira Bear were huge fans of
DSI.
So there are in jokes and references. in loads of episodes, you
know?
Um, I'm going to tell you a fact you may not know about the court
my maneuver.
Oh, yeah.
This was nominated for a Hugo Award.
Oh, really?
1967.
Now, I want to tell you some other episodes.
I think the Inner Light won the Hugo Award that year.
I know DS9 is the visitor was nominated for a Hugo Award.
Um, like, it's a prestigious thing to be nominated for a Hugo
Award.
And this is super early in its run.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, it's sort of...
Well, you know, in series one, I've got to chosen this one
though.
Obviously, I would have gone to see him the edge of forever.
Is that in series one?
It's right near the end of the series one.
Right, right.
Yeah, I mean, that is very good and is, you know, rightly
acclaimed despite the possible subtext.
But, um, like, this is simple, and it is the thing that says what
Star Trek's going to be, that we are explorers and that our job is
meeting you people.
He just said it there.
He literally just said it in that scene to seek out new life.
And then he says, can we live up for those high-handed words, you
know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So there's something super weird too.
As if something about Bailey has been left out, as if it had been
established in his character that he wanted to seek out the
unknown or something, you know, because it's like a special treat
to Bailey to be sent on the mission, you know, that away mission
to go and see who the alien is.
And, you know, maybe that's implied.
This is like we said, though, this this is in that kind of weird
gestation period where they haven't really made up the rules yet
you know?
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
So maybe at this point it's just Kirk and Spock and McCoy, they're
allowed to go down and visit planets, you know.
I don't even think the cliche about the red shirts is in.
Oh, no, in the man trap, there's a red shirt that gets killed
right at the beginning.
I remember.
Oh, really?
episode one. is insanely hot Latino.
Oh, really?
Broke my heart when he died, honestly.
But look as well, like, like, there's a, there's an Asian
character there at the, at the, so they're bending down on the
transporter because there's a low roof when they arrive, but
they've just beamed them under, like, in a doorway. they just beam
them like a foot further to the front, they could have stood up
straight.
In fact, here they are.
Yeah, I was going to say.
I was going to say, typically the design of the set, like informed
how they had to be on the pad, but no, not...
Okay, I love this set.
Holy cracking about.
Stu, that's been fucking weird.
This scene now is wonderfully weird.
Yeah, yeah, Clint Howard.
Yeah, lip syncing dialogue and doing it, like better than any drag
artist on RuPaul's Drag Race.
I'm telling you.
Well, is it?
yeah, yeah.
So this is, I know.
So, Clint Howard.
Oh, sorry.
He's a bit chilling.
I think he's a bit scary.
So that's Ron Howard's older brother, is that right?
Did I dream that?
Is Ron Howard from Happy Days?
Is that Ron Howard?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, he's a director and so on.
He has been in other episodes of Star Trek.
He is in Deep Space 9 and his most recent appearance.
Do you know who he is now?
Oh my god, he's not the crazy from past tense who goes, whoosh, I'm
invisible.
Is he that guy?
Oh, I can't.
I think he is.
He is the angry.
He's a sort of angry Orion in the, I think it's um, I think it
might be the season finale of series one of Discovery.
So he has been in discovery.
So they've got him back.
So he's got a very, very, very long Star Trek.
There are weird connections with happy days, you know, because
Anderson Williams, who was in happy days.
I can't remember which character he played.
Um, he went on to direct.
He directs the DS9 episode.
It's only a Paper Moon.
Pots, yeah.
Ah, yes.
And that's a phenomenal episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. prolific director.
Yeah, so now they're drinking.
I have to point out, it's grapefruit juice. memory appetising
that.
Yeah, it's not alcoholic.
Apparently what it's called.
Clint Howard had to do his best possible acting because he loathed
grapefruit juice.
You know where he's going, oh, 1st Latronya.
Tranya, that's right.
Space grapefruit juice.
What it is.
Ah, it's awesome.
And look at that, Kirk, again, just that, you know, he's he's
amused.
It's wonderful to watch.
It's a terrific episode for Kurt, isn't it?
He literally had to rely on intelligence with, and now good humour
you know?
I'm worried by how many fillings Clint Howard has for someone so
young.
It just seems to be, um, I'm worried about those bushy eyebrows
he's got.
Yeah, they might not be his.
And they didn't shave the kid's head.
Did you say they might not be in?
No kidding.
Well, I don't think the bald baldness is him either.
I think they've just...
Sometimes you're all sarcastic is very thin.
You're right about the set, though, because it's got a bizarre
ending where they all just walk off together.
But they walk around the exterior of the set.
So there's all this negative space full of curtains.
It's very, very stylish and very period, you know.
Why did we lose this ability to use, like, bold colours, like
this?
everything's so muted these days?
Yeah, I think, you know, I think next gen reacts against the bolt
because these primary colours and stuff seem to be here because
you know, it's colour on television and so you're going to see the
colours.
There's one thing I will say about next journey is incredibly
beige.
Very beige.
Yeah, yeah.
In more ways than one.
Yes, well that's it.
They're just going to walk around.
Yeah, yeah.
That's all they build.
Well, it kind of ends with them building a friendship.
I don't know why, I just thought that was really lovely.
And not the payoff you're probably expecting after 45 minutes of
suspense buildup.
Yeah, no, that's some, you know, that's that's what Star Trek is.
There's Baylock there.
Oh, yeah, 94, their shoes.
Yeah, honestly.
I'd go round her house and she'd be there without face saying, get
in the garden.
I don't want you in there.
Oh, my word.
Okay, so I thought that was incredibly enjoyable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's a really good episode and I think there's a reason
why we're here. uh, you know, like 56 years later talking about it
and still watching many TV shows um based on it.
It's, uh, it's an amazing bit of work.
Is it interesting that you say that, you know, I'm going to
contradict you slightly.
I think we're here because of the next generation.
That's why we're here doing this now.
Like, I think Trek, Trek found this audience, it was culturally
very important, but it did die a very horrible death in that last
season.
And then it was just sort of times away.
Then the movies came back.
Yeah, and they were popular.
Next gen here and that was popular on a level that's original Star
Trek could probably only dream of.
And that kicked off all of those other spinoffs, you know.
And that's why we're here, really. is that there's a wealth of...
But I think...
But you know, you don't get those 6 feature films or whatever and
you don't get a massive kind of spinoff from something that just
hasn't embedded itself in cultural memory.
You know, we were talking about young Sheldon watching it.
You know, all of those kids who watched it and loved it, the
letter writing campaigns when it was cancelled.
You know, it was never really forgotten, and it was always, always
repeated, and it was really something special and unusual, and
that was what they were trying to recreate, I think, in the 1980s
when...
Gen bag.
TOS cliches that have embedded themselves into society, like that
doesn't happen by accident, you know, beat me up, Scotty, the red
shirt.
Like, God, Jim, you know, like, I'm a doctor, not a, you know, all
of those things that people remember.
Um, my gosh, I can't waste in the next TOS after that.
Yeah, that's gonna be fun, isn't it?
Well, Joe, it's time for us to choose what we're going to watch
next time.
And my original plan, given that as we record, only one episode of
Star Trek Prodigy has aired, I was going to just choose Star Trek
Prodigy and let it choose the pilot, which is called Lost and
Found.
But I was cheating on a new level for us.
It is absolutely cheating.
I would be randomly choosing from the one episode of that show
currently in the randomiser.
But of the kind of big flagship Star Trek shows, there is only one
of them that we haven't done an episode from.
No, I'm one of them that we've been avoiding.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
So this is not hugely loved by me, but it's still Star Trek, you
know, and all of that.
Star Trek.
Yeah, guys.
Yeah, I'm actually going to say that when I went back to review
random episodes of Star Trek from my blog, I thought that it was
absolutely a game of 2 halves.
The 1st half was dreary beyond comparison and series 3 gave the
show a massive shot up the arse and series 4 was incredibly good
television.
So if we get latter half enterprise, there's a good chance we
might get something good.
All right.
Well, I'm in charge of the randomiser and I'm doing, look, I've
done a randomiser redesign, which no one on the video can see
there it is.
So that's probably what it looks like when you go there.
Very, very sexy.
I've still got more to do on it.
So by the time you see it, it'll probably be...
It is a fact, dear listener, that Nathan can tinker about with
websites.
It's absolutely one of its favourite things to do.
Yeah, yeah, it's my hobby.
Just call me Wesley Crusher.
All right, here goes.
Okay, I have literally no idea what this is, but it is season
three.
Oh my god.
Okay, what is it?
It's hatchery.
Oh, no.
Oh, it's the one where Archer gets taken over by space aliens.
Oh, do they lay it in?
is really boring.
It's like one of the most boring episodes of that season.
Okay, roll it again.
All right.
The augments from series four.
That's a 3 parter.
Well, we're not doing a three-parter, but we can we just do the
augments, though?
I thought our rule was, if it's a two-parter, we do both of them
if it's a 3 parter.
It may be that one. middle of a trilogy, though.
All right, I'll roll again.
Oh, this is exactly what I was talking about earlier in this
episode.
So this is an episode called Strange New World, which is
absolutely the episode that I was referring to earlier, where so
it's season one, episode 4, where they go on an away mission and
they just stretch it out for 45 minutes because it's the world's
1st away mission.
Unless I've misremembered it.
Well, that sounds incredible. and we'll be able to do a direct
comparison with this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this is this is the 4th episode.
And it may actually be, I think the way that they counted is that
Broken Bow is one and two.
This isn't the one where trip has a baby, is it?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's hilarious.
What a shame.
Okay, strange new worlds.
I don't remember a thing about it.
All right, okay.
So we're doing that.
So next time we see you, uh, we'll be on board Enterprise, as I
like to call it, uh, watching episode 4 Strange New World.
I have to say, I have absolute faith of the heart about this.
I love that.
I'll be singing along next week.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where
you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 1st of November 2021 and released
on the 3rd of December.
We'll see you next time for Enterprises, Strange New World.