Hey, Joe. Hello, hello, hello.
So, we are watching what I think is an unjustly maligned episode
of Star Trek Enterprise.
We discovered last week that a night in Sick Bay was given one
star by Jama, who just thought it was super terrible.
And I have to say that watching it, I thought it was the best of
the 4 that we have so far done for Untitled Star Trek project.
Can I ask you something?
What happened to you?
on this thing?
All right.
We watched Endgame last week, and this week we're watching a night
in Stick Bay, and you're being extraordinarily kind to these
pieces of shite.
I must say.
Well, I don't I don't, well, look, I mean, it's a Star Trek
episode and it's a pretty ropey Star Trek episode, but I certainly
don't think it deserves the sort of hatred.
It's not code of honour bad.
It's not threshold bad.
It is.
I think this is probably bombs here, Trek.
Oh, you think?
for me.
Yeah.
Do you know what?
One article I read online said that this episode was singularly
responsible for the demise of 90s Star Trek.
Oh no, that's not true.
It's, uh, we all know that it was Bacular.
Way to sync the franchise bacula.
Well, I told you off mic that I was just, you know, looking about
to see what critical opinion of a night in Sick Bay was, and I
found this fabulous YouTube video, this 10 minute YouTuber, this
mad Scott Bacula fan who'd never really watched Star Trek before.
So she chose to watch literally the 1st 2 series of Enterprise and
she starts off this video saying, what have they done to my
precious Scott Bacula?
Oh, it's marvellous.
I mean, and then she details basically everything that kind of
went wrong with him in this.
And there's a lot.
There's a lot to unpick it.
We just got back to that and Captain Archer.
Yeah, and I can't quite tell what's going on because it seems to
me, like, it is an episode where Archer is being an asshole, as
usual, but then he's forced to apologise, and the A-plot is him
having to apologise.
Well, I guess it's the B plot.
I guess they're all B plots, really, in this episode.
But the B plot about the cratassum.
There's not really any jeopardy, is there?
No, but I think that's okay.
That's one of the things that I like.
It's a bit like day to day or, you know, like in the car...
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but you know what?
Data stay in and looking for a plum up, involve a cast of
fascinating regular characters.
A night in Sick Bay involves, wow, the enterprise crew.
Yeah, but I have to say that, you know, Flux is pretty damn great
and he's really good in this.
This was the 1st time I found him a bit annoying, actually.
And I think it's because they were trying to drag sitcom comedy
out of him.
So all those sort of quirks cutting his toenails and peeling his
tongue and all of this, just for the express purpose of annoying
Captain Archer who's in the bed trying to sleep.
I'm just like, is this where we're at with Star Trek now?
Like is this what is being sold as, you know, decent drama or
comedy?
Well, but I mean, that's this week, you know, and then next week
they'll be back and they'll be, you know, every bit is racist and
thoughtless as usual.
And I guess that just for one week having the stakes be very low
and having the time.
Excuse me, I'm going to interrupt you there for a second.
If you're telling me, you don't think Captain Archer is racist for
out this entire episode.
And I don't think him doing that strange ceremony, whatever he's
doing at the end of this in any way makes up for the fact that
he's supposed to be out here as, you know, what is the purpose of
it?
They supposed to go out to meet civilisations to learn from them.
He basically comes along, takes his dog down on the away mission.
Why the fuck did he do that?
He's never done it before. he's done it once before, right?
there weren't going to be people around.
And then because, you know, of a decision he made, they're
insulted and then he spends the next half hour slagging him off.
No, but I mean when he apologises to the other members of his crew
for being such an asshole.
So there's one plot where there's an official formal apology, but
that's followed up by him apologising to people that he's been a
dick to like to poll in this episode.
Well, you said to me that you thought this was an acknowledgement
that one, that the show perhaps wasn't working, and 2, that they
had written this complete fucking arsehole as the lead.
So to give an episode where that is kind of exposed entirely and
then he makes his apologies.
Well, fine, then that should be the tipping point then, didn't
it?
And from now on, we've got agreeable, lovely arch, but you and I
know that's not the case at all.
They don't learn the lesson.
No, no.
And what was the point of highlighting it here?
Well, I don't even know whether it's deliberate or whether it's
just me reading it perversely, but so much of it is about him
being just an obnoxious prick and some of it's actually played for
laughs and I actually quite liked that.
Do you think anybody out there likes Captain Archer?
I don't know.
I think people probably do, but I just remember coming back to
Enterprise for this podcast and just discovering how massively
unlikeable he is.
And, you know, like I wasn't a massive quantum leap fan, but I
watched a fair share of it.
He was so charming. charisma.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. sonified.
I mean, he was so charm.
And the way he could play on your emotions in some of that, you
know, some of the hard-hitting topics, that's just none of that
here at all.
It's just really, really adultures.
It was one bit, right?
Where he was sitting in his quarters, watching water polo, and
throwing a ball against the wall.
And I was like, are you the whitest man I've ever seen on
television?
Not just the water polo thing is so pathetic. honestly, he may as
well play lacrosse.
Oh, very strange.
And you know, we'll talk about this in the episode, but I do need
to just ask you, what on earth?
They were thinking, right?
Because I think the relationship between Archer and the dog.
It's cute.
But then they do this dream sequence in this episode, which starts
off at the funeral of Porthos, and then becomes this very strange
sexual wet dream about the pulp, and I don't know, what connection
they were trying to make there between the two?
But it was very very strange.
I actually think that he's being unlikeable extends to his
relationship with the dog because when the dog gets sick, he
mostly sees it as an excuse to be aggrieved about the cratassins
and he just seems to show very little affection or anything, like
you know, partly because the dog is a, you know, a lot of the time
just a sort of dog shaped doll in a plastic fish tank for quite a
lot of the episode.
Like a lot of the episode, not just when he's submerged and
they're operating on him, but when he's in the sort of survival
chamber thing.
It's often just a puppet, the memory alpha page describes it as a
prosthetic dog.
It's like not real.
It's been made by the prop makers for Star Trek Enterprise.
So it looks pretty convincing.
But he just shows no affection for it.
And the dog doesn't seem interested in him at all, either. at
all.
No, there doesn't seem to be any great relation.
I think there's, I was reading on Wikipedia. 2 dogs and he had a
lot of trouble in this episode because he was asked to like be in
the decontamination room on his own and things like this away from
the owner.
And so there were a lot of issues here.
So yeah, I think in fact, and I'm sure they didn't put a real dog
in that vat of liquid, drill a hole in his head.
You know?
That was a very strange scene, you know.
I was like, well, I'm this... blocks.
It's opening up about his big family, which I thought was actually
a very gentle character moment that worked, one of the few in this
that did.
And at the same point, they're drilling out in the dog's head. in
this vat of liquid. bizarre.
But do you know what?
I know you've got dogs and you're a big dog man.
So I'm going to push this point too hard, but I think the dog is a
problem in this show.
If we are getting to a point where an entire episode is being
written around the dog sick in Sick Bay.
Oh, I just, I just don't think that is in any way interesting.
I mean, it's like centring an episode on Morn.
He's essentially scenery.
Do you know what I mean?
And the occasional punchline of a gag?
And then we kind of go, I know.
Well, at least it's still an episode about that.
Or it's like having an... a wealth of colourful characters coming
in and there's a big, like, crime plot.
There's interesting things going on.
This is literally just hanging around waiting for the dog to get
better.
I'm like, what are we doing?
Well, we're just watching Archer be a massive asshole, I think, is
the... do we want to do that?
Well, we have to do it every week, but at least they're
acknowledging it.
At least they're acknowledging it this week.
Oh my god, I knew this was going to be fun for all that.
I just knew it.
And you know what?
before we go in.
I knew something you're going to back on my head. knew how fucking
contrary you was and I knew you were going to get some pleasure
from this.
Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's fun.
I felt like big space battles and all of that.
That's not necessarily why I'm here.
Yeah, baby.
Now you're talking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not necessarily here for that.
And I think something that leans into Star Trek being stupid, which
is certainly what the Crotassans do.
And just a sort of examination of the characters.
And I think there's stuff about men and women there as well, which
is kind of a refreshing change.
Yeah, but I, again, I think it's a little bit troubling and we'll
talk about that as we're going through as they're rubbing
decontamination gel all over each other's bodies.
And a very strange bit where, Hoshi's rubbing it into Tapol, to
poles rubbing it into Archer, and Archer's rubbing it into the dog
and I'm like, is this supposed to be sexy?
Because I'm, this is some weird shit going on?
No, it's absolutely not.
But that comes quite early on.
Let's talk about that when we get started.
But have you seen the trailer for this episode?
No.
Okay.
Oh, I'm not too scared to tell you how they how they emphasise
this episode.
So it's the sequence where Archer goes.
Yes, it'll be the breast instead of best, right?
So it's him saying that line and then it cuts to lots of reaction
shots of the crew going, oh, oh, oh, as if that's what happened
you know, sort of rocky horror.
Dr. Snap, Janet, Brad.
A bit like that.
And then the voiceover goes, you know, Star Trek Enterprise is
sexier than ever.
I was like, so they were going for sex.
I'm telling you, and it worked because there was a spike in the
ratings for this one.
Oh my god.
It got 0.600000 more than usual.
Those horny buggers.
They want to see the relationship between Archer and Corthorse.
We were all tuning in this week.
Okay, should we watch this?
let's watch it.
I'm going to count this in before I lose the will to live.
Do you know what?
like being the one who don't like things.
Okay, to be the naughty one in the conversation.
Okay, you tell me when.
All right, so I'll count us in. 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off.
There is one joy in watching it, surprise, you know, we get the
theme tune every time.
I love it.
It's so singable.
It's so terrible.
Oh, here we go.
But this, don't you be telling me this isn't supposed to be sexy.
No, it's not supposed to be sexy.
In fact, I think it's making fun of these scenes and these scenes
were absolutely exploitative and just an excuse to get, you know
trip and trips show.
You go watch that trailer.
All right.
But this, this, this makes it funny because, you know, you've got
2 attractive women rubbing gel into each other, then you've got
someone rubbing gel into Archer, and then you've got Archer
rubbing it into a dog. you know, like there's no way that that
isn't meant to take the piece out of those scenes from earlier
episodes.
Brennan Braga and Rick Bourbon have the ability to look at their
own previous mistakes and then take the Mickey album?
I think so.
I definitely think that that has to be what's happening on this
the highest thing you've ever said about them, you know, maybe.
So he's already being an asshole, isn't he?
He's already complaining about the aliens of the week.
He is.
I have to say that woman on YouTube was appalled by Tapole's
makeup, her underwear in this thing because when she walks out the
door, it's riding right up her ass.
I think I might have said.
I mean, I'm going, well, I'm going to say that seeing it's got a
back, you know, with his kit off, listening like that is a
terrible thing.
No, no, no, not at all.
But you know, even when he does that fucking stupid ceremony at
the end. his lovely hairy chest out.
So it's something worth looking at.
Oh, what a good boy.
He is a good boy.
The thing is, is I've seen how your dogs react to you, right?
Yeah, and there's they're always, absolutely, they're obsessed
with you.
Yeah, yeah.
They're always around you, plucking around you and wanting to be
touched by you.
Bad dog.
It's not anything...
Neither of them are giving it either one anything.
Do you think the dog is supposed to make Jonathan Archer a more
presentable human being?
Well, possibly, but I think it's probably of a piece with the
baseball cap and the, you know, sports metaphors and all of that
sort of shit, like it's supposed to make him just an all American
white guy, you know, in a way that I just find hugely obnoxious.
This song.
I know that people hate it and they're right to hate it, but I
just sing it every time that I watch it.
He's so bad.
Were you just one time?
Were you just put the music very gently underneath as we're
talking?
everyone can enjoy it.
I think the 1st time we did Enterprise, I could, and an
instrumental version under the closing credits of our episode.
I don't know if you remember.
But you know what, right?
This is exactly what these lyrics are saying, this is exactly what
Valiant in DS9 was taking a piss out of.
I can do anything, you know?
I can touch the sky.
I can take on, you know, civilisations.
But I mean, they who are not going to watch out.
India coming.
Yeah that's right.
But they're not going to hold me down no more.
That's the Vulcans, right?
Is that what they're talking about explicitly, the Bulcans?
Don't you think?
think so.
I don't think that's what Russell Watson was thinking.
I think it is either, but I think that's definitely what I take.
Don't tell me they creatively take the show to that song.
Surely not.
No, no, I will be surprised.
I do love these sets.
I was watching this.
I was very aware of I do like the sort of functional nature of the
Enterprise sets.
Yeah.
I think they're... practical climbing over...
Well, they are, yeah, they're boring colours and things.
But it means the actors get to do a lot of physical work.
That's more interesting than just sitting around in a room, you
know?
And I kind of like how professional, how incredibly professional
trip is here and how he's the actual grown up in the room while
Baculus being just a massive asshole because, you know, like...
Oh, post-series 2.
He often was the the, well, mature one.
In series one, they tried to play him as a bit of a jock.
He's going down on rise of type planets and, you know, he's being
a bit of a teenager.
And then they realised Connor Triner could actually do drama
really well.
So they started writing him a bit more sophisticatedly.
Yeah, I think he's good.
Like, I don't, I think he's one of the top two, isn't he?
It's him and Billings on him?
Of this show.
It's him and Paul, isn't it?
Yeah, it's a polar very good thing. too.
Yeah.
And I think she gets to do some really good stuff here too.
I mean, that's when things get really sexy when she starts
skipping him massages.
Oh, I've seen that.
Is this the real dog or the puppet dog?
I'm going for the puppet dog.
I'm not sure.
The 2 dogs, just for your information, were called breezy and
windy.
Yes, I think I knew that.
They must have farted on the sand a lot.
There's the real dog in close-up.
Oh, no, there's the fake dog.
No, that's a real dog.
Oh, there he is.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
Okay, John Billingsley as Dr. Flocks. we both love him.
Yep.
And I do think there's a really wonderful moment where he talks
about his family later on in the episode.
I like it.
And I do think when they do the sort of things they do in this in
other episodes when then you just have a quirky bit with Dr
Flocks.
It usually works out really well.
It's usually the best scene in the episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, maybe this was just a bit too much.
Not too much, too much of that, just too, like, you know, a scene
in an episode is great.
A whole episode of catching bats with flocks.
You see, I actually quite like the catching bats thing because
they're such fat, useless, middle-aged wife.
And like that's the point, you know, like they blunder around the
place being utterly hopeless.
And so...
I know.
It just goes...
It just picks it out of the air.
She doesn't even catch him.
She sort of picks it out of the air.
It's awesome And I actually...
That is very strange because that's the moment where flocks choose
to go, you're sexually frustrated, Captain.
He's going around the room with his fucking net.
Oh, good.
Well, that's that's another example of what Tim Russ was talking
about.
We mentioned in last week's episode where you're doing some Star
Trek business and then you're talking about some personal thing
and then you, you know, you go back and forth between them.
Only this time it's catching an escaped bat.
I am, uh, as ever, obsessed with the background players in Star
Trek.
And I have to say, at the back of the bridge set there, a woman
was doing some particularly detailed work on the wall.
Okay, sir.
She was only in here for about 5 seconds, but yeah.
She got her dinner that day anyway.
Oh, here we go.
Oh, fuck.
And yeah, he's such a decade.
I know.
So, so they've weed.
Why does he not...
Why does, sorry, why does he not acknowledge that he has made a
mistake?
Because he's an, he's an asshole.
That's the point.
That's the absolute point that he's an absolute asshole.
Like, it's the equivalent of him bringing his dog into my home
when I haven't asked him to bring his dog into the wall.
He stuck my sofa.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And then him getting angry going, wow, I'm sorry.
This line is great.
There are some things more important than plasma injectors and she
says, are you referring to your pride?
And that's why I think that this episode is consciously about
that.
And if any line didn't deserve a you fucking idiot at the end of
it.
You know, like that line. absolutely deserves it.
She's doing the you fucking idiot with her face.
Oh, here we go.
Watching water polo, throwing his ball.
And his Dell monitor.
He's all American Captain Archer, isn't he?
But he's also, this is just him being a frustrated dickhead as
well, isn't it?
how perfect his bed is made as well.
Look at that.
He's got a yeoman.
I don't think he has got a yeoman, you know.
They would work for him.
He's such a dickhead.
Like, why doesn't the dog sleep on his bed?
What an asshole.
And sleeps over there.
Do you know, in that YouTube video, that bit where she said about
his ego.
Yeah.
Because his ego is bright.
Pride.
It cuts to a close-up on Archer and she started playing like, you
got served.
It's really funny.
It's really good.
It's one of the best lines of the episode.
Oh, this is where it all starts to go a bit wrong.
Oh, just off to Sick Bay.
So aren't just off to sick bay to sit with the dog to feel
better.
And then he goes all the way across the other side of the room and
then pulls the curtain closed.
What's the point?
Well, that was great.
It's just that he just, you know, like he shows absolutely no
affection for the dog.
I do love, like, because we love flocks, and he's very cuddly and
sweet, but the absolute sort of contempt and disregard he has for
the dog, and he calls it a bugle instead of a beagle, and that
hilarious bit about the lemurs that he's talking about.
Like he's talking about...
I like this where Archer goes, oh, excuse me, are you, you know
trained to work with dogs and then it lists all of his
qualifications in veterinary medicine.
I was like...
But he talks about the denombulant lemur and he says some of them
even have one head, which I think is...
Yeah, see, that's the sort of quirk we get one scene in most
episodes, you know?
But, I mean, that's one of the things that he does is in this very
gun version of Star Trek where it's basically on a submarine and
everyone's super boring.
He's the one who represents how silly and wonderfully ridiculous
Star Trek can be.
And and he plays it like deliberately well.
He's charming, isn't he?
So charming.
And opinionated, as we've talked about before, yeah.
Yeah, but he's got a thing to say about what went wrong with
Enterprise.
Yeah, yeah.
In fact, the one quote, there was only one quote on memory alpha
and that was from John Binningsley, who, I'm going to say this, and
he's...
He said he liked this one.
Yeah.
I don't know if he's a favourite. but he said he liked it.
And there were other members of the cast, I think, who said that
they liked it.
I think that's the fake dog there.
Oh my god, that's awful.
I didn't even realise that when I watched it earlier.
It really is. isn't it?
Oh, bless.
Do you know what, right?
The woman whose whose dogs it was.
Apparently she was very upset the day that the dog was in the
water with the old drug in his head.
Because he looked just like my dog. so bad.
I'm there going, how are they doing that?
Is there like a water around the outside?
You know, sometimes they do the thing where they'll put, you know
like 2 concentric kind of cylinders and put water between them, so
it looks like the thing submerged.
And then it's like clamped.
I'm going, how's the dog tolerating being clamped there?
That's awful.
All I can say is this, yeah, is this bit in a minute coming up
with his toenails?
I can't think of a more repulsive moment and I just can't bare
feet and toenails.
So watching him cutting off his scabby toenails.
So great.
The great thing about it, it's horrible.
But it's like the Klingon teeth device.
Remember the teeth sharpening device?
Is it Kleons who have it?
and then Quiet tries it.
You know, it's the same sort of device.
Oh, the tooth shop.
Yeah.
Oh, look.
Oh, I know, they're really horrible, aren't they?
They're claws.
We're pulsive.
But he's got all these little queries.
Face puffed up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
By all accounts, his tongue.
Well, in that 1st episode, he does that big giant smile.
And then when his wife comes on board, remembering cogenitor.
Is it coach as well?
She does the big smile.
Do you know what?
One shot of the toenails was enough.
We had four there.
One was enough.
But you know what?
I mean, how often going on about how unoriginal latter-day's night
is trek is, but even this isn't a lot original because there's an
episode of Voyager, where I can't remember why now, but Nudix has
to end up spending the evening in Sick Bay with the doctor.
Do you remember this?
No.
And it's this, but played up to 11.
Right.
So when the doctor starts paying out for music, and even Philip
gets especially grumpy about that.
And it's... almost as agonising as this.
But you're right.
It is played by, it's too bit a character.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, maybe not better actors, but certainly better characters.
Do you know what?
I just think Bourbon and Bragger must have been looking over the
shoulder going, well, that worked really well.
We'll try it with blocks and archer.
Well, it just goes to show that they're spent, aren't they?
They're kind of exhausted.
They've been now doing this for so long that they've got nothing
left.
And yet they've only been doing this show for a season and a half
and that's the problem. is you've got an exhaustive production
team. new show.
Yeah.
Wow, I really am seeing that puppet now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's really bad, isn't it?
He's fast asleep.
He's never waken up that one.
There was an episode of one foot in the grave. don't know if you
ever watched that.
Have you ever seen that?
Yeah, yeah. where Victor thinks he's buying a dog.
Well, actually what he's buying is a stuffed dog.
And Mrs. Warboys brings it around and he's like, he's there and he
runs off to the kitchen to get the dog food and he comes back with
a bowl of dog food and she's standing there with his stuffed dog.
And she goes, it's Mr. Burkett's dog, nippy, and he's like, nippy
anyway, it looks just like that dog there.
So have a look at this scene, right?
It's, I don't know why to poll is running at 10 past midnight or
whatever, but there she is.
But in this scene, archery is such a prick.
And part of the thing is, and like he's a lot older than her, I
think, in, you know, actor as, you know, he's older than her.
She presents as younger than him, although she's probably what, you
know, 50 or something if she's a Vulcan.
And, And he competes with her.
So he keeps looking across, look, she turns her speed up and so he
immediately turns his speed up because he can't be...
Oh, you think that's the reason why?
Yeah, surely, like he just can't tolerate her beating him, and she
just gives him the worst shade as she leaves because he's just
turned this into a competition.
What does she say?
can't remember Oh, she just says, oh, I guess I just can't keep up
or compete with you or something.
Like it's...
I figured, you know, because they're leaning into this hole, he's
fancy, sir.
You know, he's got desires for it.
Oh, like so he's trying to look cool.
Oh, it was like a power move.
Yeah, it was like, you know, but I also think it's just the usual
thing of him being an asshole, you know, like he can't be outrun
by a woman.
And, you know, she's being completely reasonable and he's being
the normal sort of petulant child he is in this episode.
That was the most hilarious part of Jama's review, was him saying
you know, why is this petulant asshole in charge of, you know, this
this is just watching.
And it's, you haven't been watching this show?
Have you not been watching?
But this is like, you know, I'm wondering if somewhere in the
middle of season one that, you know, Berman and Bragger were
seeing the Russia is coming in and in horror and going, you know
what is this monster we've created at the heart of this series?
And then obviously, you know, maybe this was the chance to, you
know, acknowledge that and backtrack.
Or just to hang a hat on it, hang a lantern on it, you know.
But this is sort of the beginning of series too.
So it's a good time to do this, you know, all right, fine.
Yeah, yeah.
Let's turn this around.
Well, I mean, I was surprised in stigma, for instance, that he was
actually quite nice and supportive at times.
Like he wasn't just a petulant asshole in that.
I think they get there in the season before.
You know, obviously you've seen season 3 and I know you've got big
issues with how of a Hazel 3.
Um, and, you know, he's under experience circumstances, and there
are sort of political things going on there as well.
But in four, what's the difference in four?
He's nice. and Bragger have left the show.
Yes, okay.
Suddenly he's been written very sensitively.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it just seems Spacular response to it.
He responds to it.
There's a couple of really great episodes.
It's just such a waste, isn't it?
Like you get someone as charming as Bacular on the show and then
you just make him be so obnoxious all the time.
What's marvellous is, I think you're right, because Hoshi and Tapo
and everybody else is sort of looking at each other like, oh, what
is he doing now?
That's real.
They always kind of an asshole.
That's right.
Oh, but we're lumbered with him.
So, you know.
Unless.
Oh, is this a bit where he writes the swear words down on the
pad?
He's like, is this an appropriate response to the protestors?
I was like, fuck you or something like that.
I don't know.
Well, that was the other thing too.
Like when he says, oh, if, if, you know, if they don't accept that
apology, I'll go down there and water the plants myself, and you
kind of say, like, are we that coy?
Can we not just say piss on it?
Like, I know it's American television, but it is kind of a bit
pathetic.
Oh, look, he's got into an athletic shock, but he's lying there
unmoving because he's just a puppet.
I said, no, no, you know, you know that story about Marco Lehmer
holding the baby in Covenant, and it's that animatronic baby, and
then all the wiring went crazy, and the baby's like going, imagine
if they did that with the dog.
It would be terrible, wouldn't it?
Apparently there's rushes of that, you know.
I'd love to see that.
Oh my god.
So bad.
So we're having a crisis with a dog.
I do like how his display looks like the displays in the
Enterprise in the original series, his little health metres
thing.
That's kind of cute.
I'd like it to be at those things, you know, where you stop
kicking the wall.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When they do the exercises, I just have the dog upside down doing
that.
Kind of quirky.
Can I talk to you, please, about Starfleet?
have forgot Starfleet yet?
No, because it's just one of the sheep.
You need more than one sheep.
Okay.
About the diplomatic program or education that Archer must have
had before coming out into space.
Because I'm not certain, you know, he completed that course.
No, no.
Well, I mean, he, he is, he's just annoyed at them.
You know, it's all their fault.
Look at him, look at him.
Look at him.
They should be apologising.
He really is just such a prick.
Oh, things I care more about the dogs in the ship.
Well, you do.
Now there's this.
This really awful subplot, which fortunately doesn't go anywhere
in the long term because we end up pairing her off with Tripp as
the 2 most attractive famous of the cast.
Well, I was going to ask you about that because I don't remember
this. occurring a lot, this archer to poll.
No. possible romance. like I did, you know, that it's horrible.
Their relationship in one is pretty horrible.
Like he's appalling to her on a regular occasion and then she's
off at the side looking a bit put out and thinking what you
fucking want to make us.
Yeah, that's right.
And then at the end of this season, there's an episode just before
the, I think it's the penultimate episode where she reaches her
pomphar and heads around the ship.
And honestly, it's done like a horror movie.
She's going around the ship, but it's all bizarre angles and scary
lighting and she's trying to fuck everybody on the ship.
And then in 3 they go, right, Ashley, let's give her a mature
relationship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We can't just, we can't make her just be, you know, a sex object
anymore.
Let's do something a bit more interesting with that.
And bravo for taking 2 seasons to get there. right.
Well, they managed to, I mean, you know, 7 is sexy and she's
clearly on screen. to, you know, in that sort of tight leotard
thing to...
Are you paired up with Robert Beltran?
What are you talking about?
Yeah, but not until the very end.
My God.
Oh, this is a dream, the crotessens.
So they're pretty high on the Beaumont scale.
They have appeared on the show before.
They're in a season one episode called Voxola, which I know
nothing else about.
No, not really.
They wake up covered in webs or something.
I can't remember, but...
These are pretty high scale, aren't they?
They're about a 9.987.
I'd say this is as close to the Beaumont as we've ever got.
Yeah, they're pretty...
I mean, it's not low effort because there's some makeup in there
not going in there, there's beans, dreadlock beans.
Yeah, there's all sorts going on.
But, um, oh, damn, mate.
Here we go. a bit tedious.
I mean, I do like the effect of the bat.
And you know that sort of running joke that Blocks has got all
these weird creatures, right?
Yeah, I know that's really fun.
But you don't see enough of them and it's kind of a nice chance to
do it given that there's not much else going on.
And this literally is 2 sort of middle-aged white guys being just
absolutely fucking useless.
It's so.
I think 2 blokes going after a spider like this, you know?
Look at him crawling about. like origami hawk that he's made and
he's making the noise and everything.
He's such an idiot.
And then, oh, she literally is just like, oh, you just do this.
He's pulling a giant face and everything.
He's really funny.
I, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, he even says he'd been practising the noise and he does it a
bit afterwards.
He's disappointed it doesn't work.
Oh, I think Billingsley said he really enjoyed having all this
time with Bacula.
Yeah, because they didn't usually get a lot of screen time
together.
Oh, and he's horrible to him often on the screen too.
It's not terrible CGI that bad.
I think the bat's pretty good.
Why no?
They should stick to bats and stop doing people.
That's stupid big.
Oh, shit, look, it literally looks like he's on like a military
mission.
Yeah, yeah, he's going around with that net.
He doesn't know any other weapons.
Oh, what an idiot.
Like, he looked like he was trying to knock that oil into flocks.
I do quite like to see Fox's reaction when Archer asks him if it's
poisonous and he just dips his finger in it and then licks it off
his finger.
Oh, yeah, he goes, I'll be all right.
It's it's balloons leaves ability to never be fake.
Yeah, yeah, by anything, you know?
And I think that's why when there's an episode about his character
when he is, that's why that impacts.
Because we're so used to it going, well, I'm polygamous, you know
fuck my wife, if you want to.
It's got a sort of loose 70 sort of thing.
Like he's wearing pyjamas around the around Sick Bay always. you
know what I mean?
He's got the sort of long hair and stuff.
Did you know that wonderful line?
He says at the end of this where he goes, Oh, I even miss the co
husbands a little bit.
I think that's really gorgeous.
Yeah, he starts...
Blocks goes, no, Archie goes, isn't it complicated or polygamy?
and he goes, well, yeah, that's why we do it.
Life can be a bit boring sometimes in a monogamous relationship.
And I speak from experience.
Also, not now.
I'd better shut off.
Are they still catching this bag?
Always talking about polygamy.
No, no, no, they're not talking about polygamy.
They're talking about Archer not having had sex for a while.
He's about to ask him straight out.
Is he or has he already asked?
When did you last kind of get off?
I went, God, here we go.
This is like Troy psychobabble, isn't it?
It's like, when you believe that you're sexual conduct, but
towards another crew member is inappropriate, you know?
Jesus.
Yeah, yeah, but it's that thing, it's flux, just, like, flux just
says you're getting unreasonably angry all the time and you're
being a prig.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, oh shit, come on.
Watch out.
She was in her hands like that, isn't it?
It's lovely.
Okay, that wasn't as agonising as our own.
No, I think that's pretty good, though.
Only, only because I'm watching it.
Yeah, I think it's fun.
I would say...
Oh, look at, look, do you know what?
Look, he's got sort of walking out there, a bit of swagger, utter
sarcasm, utter contempt, a smirk on his phone.
Could he be less likeable?
Yeah, yeah, no, he's obnoxious.
Was that a deliberate choice?
I don't know.
I wish you'd seen more Hoshi.
She's hardly been in the episodes.
I mean, who's absent from this episode?
There's no Malcolm and there's no Travis in this episode.
Am I right?
I don't see them at all, no.
And this is hang time.
This is perfect time.
Oh, no, here we go.
Here we go. bizarre dream sequence.
It's not good.
And it's because they don't go into it enough.
Like they're not quite, it's not quite weird enough.
Well, in another interior grave size.
Yeah, but it's a dream sequence, so it does get a pass, I think.
And they've thrown in some rain as well.
I also think that an act of, it's absolute genius to put flocks in
a, in the vicar's outfit in the vicar's role.
Because he does have that sort of, you know, that demeanour.
And now we get our...
Don't you tell me, they are not trying to make enterprise, a bit
sexier.
Oh, no, I mean, look at this.
Nathan, they're holding hands, for goodness sakes.
But we got this explicit reference to the 3 Musketeers, didn't
we?
Like Porthos's guiding principle was all for one and one for all
you know, I think that that's happening and there's a brilliant 3
Musketeers, 4 Musketeers reference a little bit later on.
So we're redoing this scene.
Oh my God.
Would you see Archer's underwear there?
That was filling out, isn't it?
Honestly.
Do you know what though, right?
sort of um...
It just looks like they're covering each other in loop.
Yeah, very strange. stupid and it was, it's not very sexy though
is it?
I mean, it was supposed to be, though. in that 1st episode where
they're in the decon chamber, and it's him and Tao in that, I
think.
Yeah, yeah.
And they're standing there in silence, you know, silhouetted
glistening stuff all over each other It's horrible It's just, it's
so sort of shit and exploitative.
It's an embarrassment.
At least they're making fun of it by having a dog in it this
time.
I mean, she is very womanly, isn't she?
Look at her fabulous hips.
Yeah.
Jolene Blaylock.
Laylock.
I can actually get a name from Baylock.
I don't know.
You're right.
They definitely went down the 7 of 9 room with her, didn't they?
It's another. have another hot alien, babe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're contemptuous of everyone.
What am I watching?
She is rubbing it into his hairy chest now.
Yeah, yuck.
Stop it.
Oh, God.
Do you remember when Battle Star Galactica did sex?
You know, it was just 2 people ripping their clothes off and going
out here.
Yeah, but this can't do that because it's bay or something like
that.
Ridiculous.
It's so bad.
But remember the showers, like the unisex showers when no one
really gives a shit?
No, that's really good.
Yeah.
But like, it's having the reverse effect of what they're trying to
achieve. turning me off.
No, no, because it's the usual sophomoric kind of approach to sex
like the sniggering, absurd, childish kind of response to it.
And the only grown up when it comes to sexuality in the show is, is
Dr. Fox, you know?
Even there, you can't have a conversation where they're just
talking about, you know, repressed sexual desire.
They got to be chasing a space bat at the same time.
That's the best thing about that scene, right?
So this.
Look at this. was never going to be up to much, was it?
So now he's doing the backstory about how he got Porthos, right?
And it's an ex-girlfriend.
And when the dog got pregnant, Scott was the 1st one she called
and I thought she was going to like call to accuse him.
You know, is she?
Oh, God.
I was like, it was Scott.
I'm getting him on the phone or Archer.
I'm getting him on the phone immediately.
That was the 1st place I went, but obviously, that's not where the
show went with it.
Do you know what?
Yeah, I'm not surprised, but this episode.
Honestly, some of the some of the inferences they're making.
It's so pathetic.
But I do quite like that.
That's him talking about his, you know, how he got Porthos.
And then this.
What about the lead?
It's like every now and again.
Oh, no, I like that.
That's breaking the format isn't it?
Okay, thinking obviously one of those procedurals, you know, when
they're investigating through the night. you know, he's like, 115.
But I mean, I think that's, I think that's a deliberate thing.
This is them going off format.
It's just set overnight.
It's not set during an adventure.
It's set over a night.
I like that.
Oh, sorry.
Yes.
He said, sorry.
Sorry, I'm a little on edge.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Oh, no.
And then they follow up with the breast line.
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's an embarrassment.
Fuck, and that is the problem.
It's these people writing sexual bloody politics where someone
could say, I'm not at my breast right now, you know.
I mean, that's 70s.
That's how you're being served.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Wait until the lips lisp. list comes in It's only funny because
we're taking the piss out of it.
No, no, I don't think that's funny at all.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Although I quite like her absolute failure to react.
And then she kind of just gives it the most minute indication that
she thinks he's a fucking idiot.
I could be reading that into her performance, but...
I just imagine, right?
goes back to her quarters every single night, right?
and just slump into a chair. and go, oh, you know, another day, you
fucking idiot people.
And you know, come series 3 or four, when she starts being in a
relationship and friendship.
Well, she's just acclimatised.
Stockholm syndrome, isn't it?
you've been around these people enough, you adapt.
So this, so the next thing here, we're going to transplant the
pituitary gland of a calorician, I don't know, some kind of
chameleon into Porthos, and this, like the hilarious thing.
The hilarious thing is that is the moment where Archer asks him if
there'll be any side effects.
And he says, oh, yes, when he's nervous, he'll tend to merge into
the background, you won't be able to see him.
And Archer goes, what?
And because the fun thing about that joke is, of course, he could
be telling the truth because this is Star Trek and Star Trek is
frequently stupid.
Like, it's just possible that he's actually telling the truth and
the dog will go invisible.
And then he just says, no, you know, and he doesn't, he doesn't.
No, I'm, I'm just joking, you know, but again, it's billing till
his delivery is so funny.
It's so funny.
I'm going, oh, how now?
Now we're being racist to the nobulance now.
He's such a prick Well, yeah, no, because he says it, doesn't he?
when he apologises to Flocks.
He says, no, no, you said this about my entire race.
So I trust to apologise to all of them, you know, effectively.
So I'm calling Alfie, though.
You're right.
I don't think that's a great joke, but I think the delivery is
good.
Yeah, I think the delivery's good.
But the reason it works at all as a joke is that it could possibly
be true because we don't know what the rules are here quite and we
know that Star Trek can be ridiculous.
Are we saying then that despite the inconsistency of the creative
team behind this show, the actors are salvaging a lot of this?
Well, I think I think certainly Billingsley's salvaging a great
deal of this.
And so is um Jollene Blaylock too.
I mean, that is a weird visual, seeing the dog in the water. with
the thing coming out of his head.
But that's what I was about to say.
Like, there's weird and then there's just uncomfortably... not fun
to watch.
Like he's classic.
What's her face?
She thinks that's her dog in there, you know?
She's very upset.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But this sequence where Flux talks about his extended family, the
polygamy on Denobula, and I thought it was really well played
because R is actually listening to him.
He's learning about him.
And there's that weird detail which they don't need to include, and
I don't know why they included, where he has 2 sons that he
doesn't speak to and that he has a fractious relationship with
them and he...
Don't know if that was supposed to be followed up.
It isn't.
But, but, and then he just says... but I miss them all.
And I just thought that is so, that's beautiful.
Yeah, here it is.
He'll have the ability to merge into the background when he's
frightened.
You're kidding.
And he goes, yep.
So good.
But yeah, I think that's a properly touching thing.
I think Billingsley sells all of weirdness as the most natural
thing ever.
You have to be in Star Trek, I think.
Um, but then he sells the emotion as well.
Yeah.
No, I think this is a lovely thing.
Essentially, what we're saying is Winnie more Billingsley in every
episode. absolutely.
And it is that thing too, where these guys are so sort of weirded
out by polygamy and it's kind of like, for God's sake, just grow
up.
Yeah.
But I will I'll give them the props for having a single character
that talks about it so blase, you know, like, they didn't even
have to do that.
It's something.
Take something.
I agree.
I think it is something And making him different in a way that, you
know, like he's not gay or something, like he's not a gay Klingon
or, you know, anything like that.
It is just an arrangement that's unusual.
Oh, I'd love to see that.
A gay Klinger?
Orville, the Orville, for God's sake, there's a whole planet off
them.
Oh, it's more...
Oh, lovely.
I know, bitch, like queen.
Now it's fabulous.
But look at look at him playing it.
He's still, he's still kind of looking at the instruments and
looking at his monitors and all of that sort of thing, but he is
delivering this.
He's got that weird way of speaking too, where he speaks out of
one corner of his mouth.
I don't know if that's Billingsley or if that's a flux thing, but
Joe, I love.
He says about, yeah, of course I miss them.
Yeah, you're asking me if I miss them.
Yeah, I do.
And there's nowhere I'd rather be there here.
I love that sentiment.
I was like, thank God summer wants to be there.
Yeah, that's right.
I'm like, this asshole is talking to.
So is it this?
When did he reach his, you know, epiphanies, revelation that, in
fact, he is the problem.
Well, he's got to try something bad.
He's already the apology. is his 1st apology.
There he is.
He's apologising because you accuse my entire race of being
intense.
But again, like he's off looking at a, he's not meeting his eye.
He doesn't he's not sort of slamming him or anything.
He's just mentioning it while he looks at his instruments and
stuff.
Like, he's really...
Honestly, no, we're going to Denobi, and you're going to make a
public speech to everyone.
In alphabetical order.
And badly, there was poll saying that you were incapable of
apologising.
Like...
That's really good.
Very good CGI shop.
Yeah.
We've been a little bit unkind about CJ Island, but actually, it
didn't look at all sort of cartoony, is it?
It was a little bit cartoony, but the design was beautiful.
It was a good thought.
Oh, yeah.
I think what's happened here is they pulled in these aliens, you
know, and said, right, you stand over there.
Right, Scott, go over there, chop a bit of that log off, and then
just do something with it.
Say, say some weird space language and do something with a log.
They'll smile in the scene.
I mean, what is this seen?
What is it?
Like what's happening?
Like, is it funny?
Is it...
No, it's just weird.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, and weird is okay.
But, like, I, I was kind of hoping that he would fuck it up in
some spectacular way by doing something even ruder, you know, at
the end, and like, he, you know, kick, kick his tongue, and then
they say, oh, fuck.
It keeps cutting to the credessons, looking a bit appalled.
So I kept thinking, oh, no, this is all going wrong.
And then it cuts to to par when that lot going, oh, is he getting
it right?
And then it's not till the end of the scene where you get the
payoff and they're all smiling and you're like, okay, this
worked.
It's really it's just...
I mean, it's done without dialogue, so we've got no clue what any
of it means.
Actually, Hoshi just did that final shot with Hoshi just smiling a
little bit at him being humiliated because he's such a dick all
the time.
Um, So here we go.
He's a com very strange.
But he's him apologising again.
And so even even just that thematic unity of the alien plot being
about apologising and then the actual character plot being about
apologising to poll, to 1st to the doctor and then to poll, I
think that's surprising.
And he goes, I've been getting so much practice, apologising to
people.
Oh, may as well give you one as well.
Well, see, that's the sexual tension again.
I may as well give you one is what he meant to say.
All right, well, you're coming in February.
Oh, God.
We need to stop.
Whenever people work in close callers, waters for extended periods
of time.
Yep, they all want to have sex with each other. talking about
their sexual chemistry here.
Yeah, yep.
Yeah.
But she she rules it out.
I would feel very uncomfortable if someone came up to me at work
and started thinking a conversation about sexual chemistry.
Look at, look at, close it down.
Then it's good. not in a position to allow ourselves to become
attract into one another.
She just, and she, yeah, she basically cuts him off by saying the
word hypothetically.
That's right.
He looks so emasculated by that word.
He really does.
Oh wow.
Guess I'm having a wank tonight, then.
She turns ahead, but still looks at him as she walks off.
Oh my god.
This has been surprisingly fun to talk about this one, you know?
I just think it's quite entertaining.
Like, it's, you know, it's not good.
But there are good things in it.
And certainly giving flocks a big role is an absolute win.
Is he back to apologise again?
What's going on now?
Um, no, he's here.
Yeah, well, no, he's thanking him for the dog for looking after
the dog.
And look, where is the joyful reunion of the dog?
And I...
Which should be the combination of essentially...
No, we just...
So you, I just sort of assume that maybe Archer doesn't like
that.
Oh, look, he smiled for a 2nd at the fucking puppet.
The dog the dog is lifeless.
Like, nothing.
We get nothing back.
It's so bad.
Honestly.
Honestly, he's just asleep, not a puppet.
Oh, yeah, no, I think sure.
Is he moving?
Yeah.
The dog is like, you get me out of this bloody box.
Oh, look, he's got a Band-Aid on his head.
Oh, look, he jumped off.
No.
Yeah, yeah, he jumped up, but look at the dog's face.
No, he's not... looking off camera at his owner.
He's absolutely not interested in Archer at all.
Thick way's all yours. welcome back anytime.
No, let's not do this again.
Please, let's all do this again.
It's bloody.
He does the big smile.
He does the big giant CG smile. for the welcome.
Now, I am going to do what I are very often do, and that is a
small comparison because there's an episode in series one called
Doctor's Orders, I believe.
And the episode is structured around letters between flocks and
another doctor from another institute that he knows and concerns
concerns like an ethical dilemma that flux is going through and
him sort of ruminating on it after the fact.
So we're seeing the episode in flashback.
And it's a fantastic piece of writing.
And Billingsley is brilliant, isn't it?
Well, let me tell you, this is Billingsley's big episode in series
two.
Well, I don't think we're going in the right direction.
She does get the opportunity to rescue a whole bunch of stuff, at
least.
But, I mean, the thing that struck me was just how
straightforwardly this seemed to be about Archer being an asshole
and having to having to apologise to everyone because he was such
an asshole.
Well, that's the point, though.
That one is series one.
There is minimal archer in that episode.
So naturally, it's fantastic.
It's maximum Billingsley and minimal bacular.
We have to try and get a series four, even if it ends up being in
the middle of a trilogy or something, just so that I can see a
more relaxed, more charming Jonathan Archer, I think.
I'd really like you to see home in series 4, which is like post
just after the Zindiak, just after the switch front, when they
dash about with Nazis or something for 2 episodes. and put the
timeline back.
And then he's basically ruminating on the last 3 years.
And he goes climbing climbing up the rocks with an X squeeze and
it's it's quite thoughtful and he's just really gentle and lovely
in it.
I'm like, who's this?
So it's the end of the episode, and we are going to choose a Star
Trek story for our next episode.
And Joe, it's your turn on the randomiser.
Yeah, I'm here.
And after 2 episodes of having to watch the absolute Drek of the
Star Trek franchise, I will keep pressing this button until I find
something mildly enjoyable for us both to watch.
You know those ones where we think they're really great before we
watch them and then we watch them and they're kind of terrible.
Hoping so.
We've had a few where we've gone the other way as well. like, oh
was this going to be great?
And well, this, you and this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
This is a lot better than I expected.
Okay, well, you know, I could be pressing for a while.
This is the Star Trek franchise after all.
Are you just, what series are you choosing from?
Oh, all of them, I'm just going to put them all in.
Originally, I was just going to do next gen, but I figured I've
got a better hit rate of getting something good if I put them all
in.
All right, okay.
Okay, off you go.
Press.
Your Star Trek Voyager episode is season six, episode 25.
The haunting of deck 12.
Oh, it's abysmal.
Remember that one?
Telling a story.
It's an Elix telling a story to the Borg children or something.
About some sentient gas that's taken over the ship and, you know
I'll press it again.
Okay.
Oh, that sounds promising.
Or Star Trek, the Space 9 episode is season five, episode 13 for
the uniform.
Ooh, is that a 2 partner?
No, that's, that's, that's, we're continuing our, our journey.
Michael, the career of Michael Eddington.
And it's the one where Cisco is like the mad villain, bombing
planet.
He's Javert.
Oh, I don't know, I'm tempted.
It is fantastic.
But we have done a lot of 90s trek lately.
I wouldn't mind.
Okay.
No, push it again.
I pressed it again.
Okay.
Your Star Trek Enterprise episode is season 3, episode 21, E
squared.
Oh, no, it's right in the middle of the Zindi Arc, and they do
this sort of, it's a bit children of timy.
Oh, okay.
It's the descendants of enterprise in the Delphic Expanse.
Oh, I have watched that.
I've actually seen that recently recently recently.
It's terrible.
I'm going to press it again.
Oh, here we go.
This is it.
Okay.
We've got a classic.
We've got a classic on our hands.
Your Star Trek, the next generation episode is season five, episode
two.
Darmok.
That's brilliant.
Joe and Nathan at the microphones.
I am going to watch lots of lower decks in preparation because
they have a Tamarian security officer who is pretty great.
We haven't done a next generation episode for 10 episodes now.
It has been a while.
And that is a good evening.
It is really good. a celebrated episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think with good reason too.
I think it is pretty good Oh, please, please don't be one of those
ones so we go back and watch it.
I can always say.
No, no, no, no. pretty sure it won't be.
I seem to remember the fella who plays Darmok is very, very cute.
Like, it's really charming.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't remember his name now Oh well, let's do it.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and
YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is via Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 6th of October 2022 and released
on the 14th of October.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, Darmok.
I think that's an out.
Yeah.
I actually want to, I actually want to go out with you saying
who's this?
And then laugh.
That's really funny.
How do you sum that up?
Yeah, but that's it.
Well, no, it's a whole episode.
It's a whole episode about him being an asshole.
So it ended on a positive note where he ends up being really nice
you know, and then undercut it by saying, why wasn't it like this
all along?
Well, please, I've got a wonderful reason as to how I'm going to
randomise.
All right.
We've watched a lot of shit lately and it would be nice.
Basically, yes.
Basically, yeah.
Yeah, all right.