WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:20:43

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are doing a monumental episode, I think, this evening, which

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is the finale of 7 years of top tier Star Trek from Star Trek

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Voyager.

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How are you feeling going in?

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Don't even start with me, all right?

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There should be a monumental episode.

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This should be the culmination of 7 years of Star Trek Voyager.

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Can I say something just straight from the off, please?

10
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Yeah.

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This is not on.

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Okay?

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This is in no way the finale of a television series.

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This is a rehash.

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It's not even a rehash of Voyager episodes.

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This is a rehash of a ton of next generation episodes, which I

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know you're going to say, but I just spent 7 years doing anyway, so

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it is fitting.

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We've been doing 2 characters meeting since Times Squared in

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season 2 of TNG.

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What's that one on the 2nd time squared?

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All right, 2nd chances. everyone remembers that one or Data met

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himself quite a few times.

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We've been doing other depictions of the future since future

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imperfect in tea.

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We've been doing engagements with the Borg since Q-Hoo in series 2

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of TNG.

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I mean, there's just no part of this that is original exciting

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innovative in any way.

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I am not pleased.

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I was hoping to go back and watch this and see, you know, fabulous

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depths, kisses to the past, wonderful things happening.

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I know you're kinder about this and me.

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But this is not on.

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Well, I think I just went in with lower expectations than you and

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That's not an argument.

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Well, look, I mean, they decided very early on that this was not

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going to be a show that was serialised it wasn't going to tell a

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continuous story about these people.

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It was just going to do Star Trek and solve space problems every

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week.

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And sometimes they did that very well and sometimes they did it

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sort of fairly badly.

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So when it comes to sort of culmination of 7 years, how do we do a

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finale?

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And to be fair, it's the 1st deliberate finale of a Star Trek

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series ever because...

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Well, so Star Trek, the original series just gets cancelled.

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The animated series, I don't think, ends in any sort of very

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definite way.

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Star Trek.

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It's like 6 episodes in series 2 or something and then just

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stops.

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That's right.

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And then Star Trek, the Next Generation, they all turn up at work

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the following week and start recording Star Trek generations.

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And so it is a summary of, you know, Star Trek.

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And it is successful and not successful in all sorts of ways

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mostly based upon the kind of nostalgia you feel for the

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characters more than anything else.

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So this is how do we end this?

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And they have to end it coming back to Earth.

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And so what do they do?

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Well, Deep Space...

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You just kept over DS9?

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Yeah, because Deep Space 9 is a series set in the Star Trek

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universe.

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It's not a Star Trek series.

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And it decided after a few faltering starts that it was going to

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tell a sort of fairly continuous story.

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And when it came time for it to wrap up series 7, they just had

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more material than they could even conceivably fit in there.

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You know, like they have a big 10 episode arc that leads up to a

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sort of impressive finale except for what Marco Lemo and Louise

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Fletcher. have to do.

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But this is the 1st time that we have to end. we have to get back

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to earth and what do we do?

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And I think that what this chooses to do is more or less the right

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thing.

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So it hints at their life on earth in the future, but it doesn't

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really show us it, but it gives us a possible future, and

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basically that's all we're going to get, is possible futures.

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We won't actually see their future.

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And it gives Janeway a chance to examine the decision that she

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made that stranded them in the Delta Quadrant in the 1st place and

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get her to play it out again and make the right decision.

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And so, you know, like, I don't know.

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It's not great, but I don't think it's an atrocity.

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Oh, I thought it was very dull, very dull indeed.

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We will talk about that.

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That hints of a possible future.

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That doesn't cut it with me.

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I'm sorry, like that isn't what happens.

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The people that die in that future do not die at the end of this.

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So basically none of that is going to happen.

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It's going to be completely different.

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We do gesture toward the future with a budding relationship and

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with the birth of a baby.

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So we know that those characters are going on.

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We talk.

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Harry talks a little bit about seeing his mother and how much he

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wants to do that.

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So I think it would have been nice if we'd had more of that sort

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of stuff, but they do at least hint towards it.

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But the characters are too thin to sustain anything very

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interesting.

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Exactly.

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May I say that both of those things, the budding relationship and

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the birth of the baby, are sitcom at their most tedious?

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Well, it's because the characters aren't great.

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It's because the actors aren't great in those 2 plots as well.

112
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Yeah, Roxanne Dawson and Jerry Ryan are, but the 2 Roberts

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unfortunately, are letting them side down a little bit.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So basically what you're saying is this is the best we could have

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hoped for.

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Maybe, maybe it is.

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I'm dabbing this with...

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That's dabbing the series with...

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Well, yeah, but I mean, if it just aims to be a sort of diverting

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way to spend 45 minutes watching space things every week, you know

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mission accomplished.

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And we were just lucky that often it strove to be more than that

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less often, say, than Deep Space 9 did, and perhaps slightly more

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often than Enterprise.

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Who knows?

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Can I say, though, like, I watched this or at least 2 thirds of

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this with my other half, right?

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Who's not a Star Trek fan in any way, shape or form, right?

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So now I start thinking, well, maybe it's me because he couldn't

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see the ending.

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And then he went, oh, I really want to see the ending of that

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Voyager episode.

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I'm like, oh, were you enjoying that?

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So maybe maybe this is just working on levels that isn't for me.

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Like, I guess in terms of action adventure, it's very pretty.

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There's some great effects.

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If you're not accustomed to the series or the franchise behind

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this, I suppose some of this would be quite exciting and full of

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interesting ideas.

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But we have been doing this a long time, haven't we?

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Time travel, alternative futures, the Borg.

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Like the Borg at this point, I think there are some interesting

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visuals and I like that the Borg Queen comes along and decides to

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flirt with Janeway exactly the same way she flirts with data in

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1st contact.

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Oh, not sure.

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That's fun.

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Well, actually, I've got a bit quote about that, you know, because

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Alice Creek says, how do I do this?

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This is not Brent Spiner, and this is Kate Mulgrew.

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And she went, oh, just go for it.

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She's a dirty bitch, you know?

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The Borg would be with us for 13 years at this and Voyager did a

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tremendous job when they 1st introduced them like that, they

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really...

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Scorpion part one, 2 is really good.

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Unity, though, where they 1st came into series 3 is such a really

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strong episode as well.

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But then they started, they obviously they brought in 7 of 9 and

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then they lent into it just a little bit too much.

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Then they got a bit desperate and started bringing in the all

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kitty winks and things like this.

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And then they did Unimatrix 0 where they, you know, said, oh, well

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there's this rebellion ball group that are in the hive mine, and

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you're like, oh, what is going on now?

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bring this to an end, please, you know?

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Well, they do the combination.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah, but what is what is the climax of this great Borg

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storyline?

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all blow up.

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Yeah.

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But, I mean, in a way, it's not really a story about the Borg.

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It is a story about the decision that Janeway made to strand

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them.

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And we've forgotten that.

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We've long since forgotten that, but you remember in state of flux

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in series one, which is the most recent voyage we watched, it was

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controversial.

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She's condemned. right.

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What's really interesting, they do tend to forget about it.

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And then remembering it every now and again.

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Do you remember at night at the beginning of series five?

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Ah, yeah, yeah.

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Where she's in her quarters for the 1st half of the episode in the

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dark going, oh, God, I stranded that everyone here.

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Like, she hasn't cared about it for years.

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All of a sudden, it's really weighing on her mind.

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So I do remember it sort of every now and then.

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And I mean, that's part of the problem, isn't it?

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That's part of the problem, is that it's not really a story. you

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know, of a group of desperate people trying to get home.

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It's really just a sort of venue for Star Trek episodes to happen

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in and that never becomes interesting.

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And so when it comes to them returning home.

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In a way, it's hard to care.

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You know, because it's essentially the same thing as the series

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ending and the series was always going to end at this point, you

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know.

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One of these days, you and I will do a commentary on caretaker and

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the potential that was there.

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And we've talked about this before, the potential that was there

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for this series to be, you know, not Battlestar Galactica gritty

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but to tell, you know, a genuinely interesting story about people

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stuck out in a region of space cut off from resources, et cetera

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et cetera, was there.

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Well, this isn't, this isn't the Battlestar Galactica finale, is

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it?

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No.

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No, no.

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People hated that, but I thought it was tremendous.

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But it was wonderful.

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Do you remember the bit where the ship came in and that's when

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Rosalind dies.

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Sorry, spoiler.

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That broke my heart that same.

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So good.

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So brilliant.

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Yeah.

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Nathan, before we head into the episode, would you indulge me once

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again?

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What did people say?

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With a few exciting sound bites from the Voyager crew on their own

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finale.

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Well, as you can imagine, Robert Beltran was not impressed.

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The 2nd worst, Robert, what did he have to say?

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He says they took it out on us by saying, this show's no good.

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Let's get it over with as quickly as possible, so we can fix it

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for the next one.

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What in 7 years?

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Get it over with as quickly as possible.

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He says, um, that's what we're going out with and claimed that the

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episode make him feel vindicated about his belief that the writers

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were idiots, so it was unfortunate that the fans were going to

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have to sit through it.

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I mean, I think I feel like he was thinking about me there, you

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know, he was thinking about me.

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I'm honest.

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Maybe he's just the 2nd best, Robert.

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Let's see what Kate Mulgrew has to say.

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I think in the end it was just about as excellent as it could have

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been under those extraordinary circumstances.

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That's very, very diplomatic.

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Okay, Garrett Wang says, I think the 1st hour of the finale was

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fantastic, very exciting, well written, good pacing.

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Everything was great about the 1st hour, but the 2nd hour, it just

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seemed like it tied up all the loose ends very quickly.

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So the 2nd half of the finale I was not happy about, and I

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especially didn't like the fact that we ended up in the series

252
00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:45.059
Earth's Orbit.

253
00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:47.639
We didn't even step foot on earth.

254
00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:48.179
Yeah.

255
00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:50.279
I think that's a valid criticism.

256
00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:51.240
Garrett Wang.

257
00:11:51.299 --> 00:11:53.940
It would have been very expensive for them to set foot on earth

258
00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:56.519
but for Christ's sake, it's your finale, and that would have been

259
00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:56.879
good.

260
00:11:56.940 --> 00:12:01.620
You know, like the people who say, we should have come home midway

261
00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:05.399
through season 7 and then endured 13 episodes of whatever the

262
00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.840
Voyager writers thought they were capable of making happen on

263
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.240
earth after they'd all left the crew.

264
00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:15.419
Like there was never any chance that that would be a going

265
00:12:15.419 --> 00:12:16.200
concern.

266
00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:18.600
So they have to end arriving home.

267
00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:21.840
And I guess having a final shot of a computer generated.

268
00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:25.080
Earth is cheaper than landing them all in San Francisco.

269
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.539
That would have been better though.

270
00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.340
It was real, I tell you, it was real.

271
00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:30.539
Good on you, Garrett, you're right.

272
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.360
It's funny you should say that, you know, because Roxanne Dawson

273
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.840
says, my only criticism, if I have one, is that I wish we had

274
00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:39.659
started to deal with the ending a little bit earlier, instead of

275
00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:41.279
just in that last 2 hour episode.

276
00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:44.580
Yeah, or the last 5 minutes of the 2 hours.

277
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.820
I'm starting to feel like the 2 should have been in the royal

278
00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:48.299
room.

279
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:50.159
Yeah, they might have done a better job on this show.

280
00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:53.820
Okay, well, Picardo says, I really like the finale.

281
00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.580
Kate did a superb job talking to herself.

282
00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:57.299
Ha ha.

283
00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.879
I thought Kate was absolutely seamless.

284
00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:02.279
Yeah, that's all he really says something, right?

285
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:06.720
Tim Rush says, I feel it's time to wrap up the show.

286
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:12.960
He said 7 years of standing at the tactical stroke security

287
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:18.419
station occasionally saying lines about the shield levels and

288
00:13:18.419 --> 00:13:20.519
that's really all that's been asked of him.

289
00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:21.960
It's a great waste.

290
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:28.620
And Jerry Ryan says that she found the romance between 7 of 9 and

291
00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:33.299
Chakotay frustrating, saying, I don't think it was a bad idea, just

292
00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:34.799
the way it came out of left field.

293
00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:38.460
I think Robert Beltran and I had a very hard time with that.

294
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:39.360
Wow.

295
00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:40.080
Boy, did you?

296
00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:42.059
I wasn't sold at all, were you?

297
00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.299
Well, I actually thought that it gave Jerry the chance to do some

298
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:49.860
something different as 7 to do a slightly different performance.

299
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:54.419
And I found her as charming as hell, that smile, like when she

300
00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:54.899
smiled.

301
00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:57.059
No, no, but I don't care.

302
00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:58.019
I was looking at Jerry.

303
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.820
I didn't even realise that Robert was in the room.

304
00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:04.379
So director Alan Croecca recalls, there was a big push for me to

305
00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:07.440
finish the scenes quickly so they could start tearing down the

306
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.039
set.

307
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.259
Imagine trying to rehearse a scene and miss the sounds of

308
00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:16.139
deconstruction, watching the walls of your home being carried off

309
00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:19.080
stage, as you're still trying to get the actors to say their

310
00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:19.379
lives.

311
00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:20.279
Wow.

312
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:24.299
So it was literally them out. them in.

313
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:25.379
That's so bad.

314
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.799
And here's the most condemning.

315
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:29.519
Are you ready for this?

316
00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:33.539
The most condemning quote comes from Branham Bragger himself, who

317
00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:35.940
has input in this story, I believe.

318
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.820
I don't remember the finale well enough.

319
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.799
I think I have a story credit on it.

320
00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:43.320
So you'd think I would remember it.

321
00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:46.019
I don't think the Borg was super impactful here.

322
00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.059
I think 7 of 9 should have bit in the dust.

323
00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.519
I think there should have been a real sacrifice for this crew

324
00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:52.620
getting home, a real blood sacrifice.

325
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.059
I think then.

326
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.740
You have a finale.

327
00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:56.519
Yeah.

328
00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:57.179
Yeah.

329
00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:01.259
I mean, there is a blood sacrifice, but it's one that doesn't

330
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:02.580
actually cost them anything.

331
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:05.279
And Rick Berman absolutely adored it.

332
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.720
Of course it did a fabulous job.

333
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.759
But then he is going to say that, isn't he?

334
00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:10.200
Should we watch this thing?

335
00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:11.820
I think we probably should.

336
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:22.019
So I will count us in five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

337
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.500
We...

338
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.379
So fireworks going over San Francisco here.

339
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:34.559
Yeah, I think that this is an image that they had in mind very

340
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:41.159
early on, and it is a pretty good image, but I think that there's

341
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:41.700
a problem.

342
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:44.460
It actually, there's a problem with it, and I'll get to that

343
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:44.879
later.

344
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:46.259
I do think it's great visuals.

345
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:47.220
I mean, that's just amazing.

346
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:47.820
Look at it.

347
00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:49.379
I'm not sure that.

348
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:51.360
I'm not sure if I'll buy the fireworks.

349
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.039
Don't buy the crowd.

350
00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:54.840
Like, I absolutely don't buy the crowd.

351
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:56.700
They're all just sort of crowded, you know.

352
00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.700
And the most exciting thing you could do is have the shuttle going

353
00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:03.059
past behind them, you know, like that's how they're showing the

354
00:16:03.059 --> 00:16:03.720
scope of this thing.

355
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.019
In fact, Brannan Bragger had an idea for an episode earlier in the

356
00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:11.700
show's run that started with this image of Voyager going over and

357
00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:14.820
the whole thing was going to be a massive com and he remembered it

358
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:15.659
for the finale.

359
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:16.740
Yeah.

360
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:17.580
And so this...

361
00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:18.179
Here we have.

362
00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:21.059
Kate Mulgrew in old age makeup.

363
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:21.720
Yeah.

364
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:22.559
Yeah.

365
00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:26.279
And so here's the problem with this beginning scene is that

366
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:31.559
everyone just looks incredibly shit with the possible exception of

367
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.580
Kate Mulgrew, with the exception of Kate Mulgrew, I would say that

368
00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:35.879
yeah.

369
00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:36.360
Yeah.

370
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:40.019
They don't go too heavy on her makeup, but Jesus Christ, everyone

371
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:41.220
else looks so stupid.

372
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:45.779
And so this 1st half of the thing, we are alternating between the

373
00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:49.740
future and the present, like our show person.

374
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:54.120
The whole 1st act is in the fake future, isn't it?

375
00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:55.860
Yeah, but the alternative future.

376
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.440
Yeah, we start and we go in the alternative future for a long time

377
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:02.820
and then we just alternate between them and we know that they're

378
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:03.600
going to meet.

379
00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:07.440
And so the meeting is the cliffhanger to episode one if they're

380
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:08.579
showing it in syndication.

381
00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:11.759
You know, when we watched all good things.

382
00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:15.059
Yeah, and we were popping into the future in the vineyard with old

383
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:15.599
Picard.

384
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.119
Was that an alternative future or was that the future that was to

385
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:18.420
come?

386
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:21.059
Well, no, that's an alternative future because they even say that

387
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:25.140
at the end, they even say, not even an original fucking finale

388
00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:25.859
then, is it?

389
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.279
No, well, remember, remember that Deanna has died in that

390
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.000
alternative future and that Riker and Worf no longer talk to one

391
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.299
another and so they determine that they're not going to do that

392
00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:37.680
and having that conversation.

393
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:39.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

394
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:42.059
They have that conversation and then Deanna comes into the into

395
00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:44.940
the poker table because no one's told her about it.

396
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.099
They've tactfully discussed it behind her back.

397
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.559
And so that's the same thing that's happening there.

398
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:50.880
You know, 7's dead.

399
00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:54.359
Do you think they've spent more time with Mulgrew's makeup simply

400
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.940
because she's going to be in the bulk of this episode in that

401
00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:57.539
makeup?

402
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:58.259
Maybe.

403
00:17:58.259 --> 00:17:59.579
And yeah, well, that's right.

404
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.059
She's in episode 2 in the makeup too, but I think they probably

405
00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:05.640
have toned it down a little bit because she's a good actor.

406
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:06.779
She can act older.

407
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:09.720
She's older than most of the rest of the cast anyway, probably

408
00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:10.619
slightly.

409
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:11.519
I don't know, actually.

410
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:12.720
I'm just saying that, huh?

411
00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:17.220
Can I say one thing that I don't think you're going to like?

412
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:19.799
And this is, I promise you, this will be the sort of the end of me

413
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.440
truly bitching and I'll try and find nice things to say after

414
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:22.680
this.

415
00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.140
I think Kate Mulgrew struggles in this.

416
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.859
Yeah, I didn't see that because you had told me beforehand and I

417
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:29.880
did look for it.

418
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.400
Holy crap, like, look at this.

419
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:35.279
Garrett's makeup and hair are so bad.

420
00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:40.380
That's bad, but it's not as bad as No, because he's younger.

421
00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:41.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

422
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.759
On Paris, it looks like he's got some terrible disease.

423
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:45.900
It was mutated in his face.

424
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.000
What's happened to his nose?

425
00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:51.240
Like, they've put all this thing, like his nose has got thinner. as

426
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:51.839
he's got older?

427
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:52.920
Is that a thing that happens?

428
00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:54.779
I don't think people's noses get thinner.

429
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:55.680
What's going on?

430
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:58.920
No, he's done a bit of cosmetic surgery, that's all.

431
00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:01.380
He wants to look a bit better. trimmer in his old age.

432
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.059
He's such a beautiful young man.

433
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.140
I do like to know what?

434
00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:05.759
I do like Janeway's hair.

435
00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:06.420
Yeah, I do too.

436
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:07.799
A fabulous sort of coiffure.

437
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:09.900
Well, that's healthy, are they?

438
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.339
Kate Mulgrew.

439
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.900
She could pull off any look, you know?

440
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.220
No, and I don't think they've gone very heavy on the makeup

441
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:17.700
either.

442
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.680
So we're hearing about someone's funeral, but whose is a, we don't

443
00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:22.799
know.

444
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:25.079
I think it's seven, isn't it?

445
00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:26.640
Well, yeah, but we don't know at this point.

446
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:30.359
Oh, no, she goes to Chakotay is great, so maybe it's Chakotay.

447
00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:30.779
Yeah.

448
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:31.740
Oh here we go.

449
00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:33.660
This is the doctor and his wife.

450
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.720
And this is, oh my god.

451
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:41.700
I would say this ageing makeup looked really bad, if I didn't know

452
00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:47.940
what the worst Robert looks like now, because he's, you bitch.

453
00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:50.940
No, he's a very handsome man.

454
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.519
We cannot condemn people for getting old, all right?

455
00:19:56.579 --> 00:20:00.839
No, no, no, no, no, look, I'm older than him.

456
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:04.859
So, like, isn't it glorious that the doctor's got this hot blonde

457
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:05.460
on his head?

458
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:06.539
I know, it's terrific.

459
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:11.220
And he's decided after 7 years to call himself Joe. Joe, the most

460
00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:14.880
low effort name imaginable is the joke, apparently.

461
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:16.380
I beg your pardon?

462
00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:19.680
Well, I had a great imagination.

463
00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:20.519
Thank you very much.

464
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:21.599
So funny.

465
00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:23.099
It's such a great.

466
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:24.660
That is a funny joke.

467
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.640
That's my favourite joke of the episode.

468
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.119
It's over now and we've still got an hour and 25 minutes to go.

469
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:34.259
Now, look, it's not so shocking on B'lana, the old age maker

470
00:20:34.259 --> 00:20:36.359
because I'm still seeing her in makeup, are we?

471
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:38.099
Yeah, but I think it's bad.

472
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.920
Like the lines around her mouth and stuff and not very

473
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:41.579
convincing.

474
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:42.660
Okay.

475
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.700
Remember Beverly came across best in the ageing makeup in All Good

476
00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:48.059
Things?

477
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:48.779
Yeah.

478
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:50.339
In certain lights.

479
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

480
00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:54.180
And I guess that's what B'lana's dealing with here.

481
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.759
I kind of like this too.

482
00:20:56.819 --> 00:21:01.319
And this is interesting because we get the baby that's going to be

483
00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:06.539
born in the final, like final minutes of this episode, we get to

484
00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:09.420
see her and she is part of the plan, which I think is pretty

485
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:09.779
great.

486
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.880
And we knew it was...

487
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.359
Although again, again, I would like to have seen that done a

488
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.420
season earlier and we could deal with some fallout on Voyager and

489
00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:21.180
have some terrible, you know, you've got to chase the diapers

490
00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:21.779
storylines.

491
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:22.920
Oh, God, no.

492
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.039
Because I just want more soap anomaly and stuff.

493
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:28.799
I want less procedural and more soap.

494
00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:33.420
Oh, he's Dwight looking really bad in his ageing makeup as well.

495
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:37.019
And so, you know, I don't remember in TNG.

496
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:42.119
You know, he did that weird delivery of like, uh, talking a bit, uh

497
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:43.740
like, where's that company?

498
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:44.700
That's him being old.

499
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:46.200
That's old, Barkley.

500
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:47.759
Okay.

501
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:51.480
Oh my god, look at that dreadful respect shot of communications

502
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:52.019
place.

503
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:53.940
It's really not good, is it?

504
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:54.900
Just shocking.

505
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.900
When you think of those city scapes they did in Picard, you know.

506
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:03.059
Yeah, or what, you know, Strange New Worlds looks like.

507
00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.480
Can I please want to find my statement about Kate Mulgrew, please?

508
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:08.460
Because I don't want to, I don't want to attack Mulgar on

509
00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:09.059
necessarily.

510
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:11.099
I think she is one of the MVPs Voyager.

511
00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:13.140
Properly so.

512
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:16.680
I think she struggles when she's acting against herself.

513
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.220
And she says that herself is a tough.

514
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.539
That is not a natural thing to do.

515
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.819
And she was having to do take after take off to take.

516
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:28.200
And I don't think and it happens in deadlock as well when they did

517
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:28.380
it.

518
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:30.900
So even that's not original because they had 2 Janeways in

519
00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:32.339
deadlock talking together.

520
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.579
So I think she gives a very nice performance as the old Janeway

521
00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:36.660
and I buy her character.

522
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.059
She's always very good as a regular German.

523
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.119
You bring the 2 together and it's just all a bit static and a bit

524
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:43.680
wooden and that's what I don't like.

525
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:45.599
And in the finale I don't want that.

526
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.259
I, this scene is so stupid.

527
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:53.519
Plus, oh, look, firstly, let's just say, look at these pretty

528
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.200
cadets, they're very pretty.

529
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.240
Did you know that cadet man?

530
00:22:57.299 --> 00:23:00.599
He's part of the Make-A-Wish Foundation, and he won that role on

531
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:01.559
Voyager at the 24.

532
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.359
Who's asking the question?

533
00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:04.019
Yeah.

534
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:04.920
He's beautiful.

535
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:09.000
He had a wish to make, and that was just appear on Star Trek Boy

536
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:09.420
job.

537
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.339
So here he is in the finale. for him.

538
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.059
That's awesome But this is one of these stupid scenes that only

539
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.660
happens in really crappy television where, you know, like it's a

540
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:19.079
lecture.

541
00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:21.839
We're here for a university lecture, rather than showing us the

542
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.200
last 2 minutes of the lecture and then going to questions, she

543
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:28.259
asked her questions 1st because why?

544
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.859
I don't know because we wanted to see Barclay introduce her

545
00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:33.240
because we needed it.

546
00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:35.400
It explained to us what was going on.

547
00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:38.940
And because we can't afford a university lecture hall, it's all

548
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.480
just going to be done in this shitty set, you know, like we need

549
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.859
to be told it's a lecture.

550
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.400
And so it's a lecture that lasts essentially 3 minutes before she

551
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.599
gets called away.

552
00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:49.740
It's so ridiculous.

553
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.180
Can I ask you a question that I think you may have asked me?

554
00:23:55.319 --> 00:24:00.180
Well, so the older Janeway, she wants to head back into the past

555
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:04.920
to change what's happened to save 7 and Robert Beltran.

556
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:05.400
Yeah?

557
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:05.880
Yep.

558
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:10.559
And those people that have died. since uh, you know, season 7 of

559
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:11.099
Voyager.

560
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.740
Well, what about all the people that died since series one?

561
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.440
Why didn't she go back to caretaker and change the future?

562
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:18.960
I did a little bit of research?

563
00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:29.160
Uh, and apparently about 37 people on the crew die during Voyager

564
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:30.059
7 year run?

565
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:35.160
And we're told by older Janeway that in the remainder, in the

566
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:40.920
remaining 14 years or something that it takes them to get home, 22

567
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:41.640
people die.

568
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:46.920
So in fact, the death rate goes down dramatically towards the end

569
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.519
of the run.

570
00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:49.680
Why would she choose her toilet?

571
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.319
Because she just faked... 7 of 9 and...

572
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:53.279
I think it's a problem.

573
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:55.200
I think it's actually a problem with a script.

574
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:00.180
And it's because the show doesn't want to do anything too

575
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:01.500
shocking.

576
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:05.220
And because the show is wedded to the idea that when Voyager

577
00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:09.599
arrives home, there's a fly through the Golden Gate Bridge and

578
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.180
fireworks and stuff.

579
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:16.680
And what really needed to be happening was that the ship was just

580
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:21.539
limping, you know, barely makes at home in one piece and that it's

581
00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:22.799
been a huge disaster.

582
00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:26.759
And but they're too kind of cowardly to do that.

583
00:25:26.819 --> 00:25:31.319
And so what we get instead is Janeway, whose friend is sick, whose

584
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:35.220
other friend has died, and then another friend has died, and she

585
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:36.420
goes, that's unacceptable.

586
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.559
I'm going to change the flow of time, rather than saying, I'm a

587
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.160
grown up and life is really difficult sometimes and people die and

588
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.400
get sick and I should just learn to deal with it.

589
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.039
So her whole motivation is stupid, I think.

590
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:51.599
She's like, do you know what?

591
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.099
We've been back in time quite a few times.

592
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:54.599
I'll give that a go.

593
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.740
See if I can show you things.

594
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.599
I mean, like that's an option.

595
00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:00.119
You know, that's an option in the Star Trek universe, obviously.

596
00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:02.759
But you also as well, you could just, you could waive all the

597
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:05.759
problems, all the objections we've just made with a line.

598
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:08.819
Yeah, she was trying to get back to where Caretaker was.

599
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:12.119
Oh dear, she made a miscalculation and ended up 7 years in the

600
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:12.299
future.

601
00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:13.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

602
00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:15.900
She could have gone back to the beginning and just prevented it

603
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:19.980
and did what happens here where they get to go home and imagine

604
00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:20.220
that.

605
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:21.900
And they get to do the thing.

606
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:22.559
But that was this.

607
00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:25.619
And we went back to Caretaker and they did exactly what they did

608
00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:26.940
in all good things.

609
00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:29.819
They, you know, everyone's hair was wrong, just like it wasn't

610
00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:30.059
that one.

611
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.779
But then that would mean that all of the 7 years of Voyager never

612
00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:36.059
happened, even though we'd watched.

613
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:40.259
I would like to say that within this entire tedious future that

614
00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:42.240
we're seeing, because there's another really interesting going on

615
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:46.619
here, if I'm honest, Tim Russ is given a chance to do something a

616
00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:49.859
little bit different from the norm and he's very, very good.

617
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:51.180
Yeah, he is very good.

618
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:54.299
And every time they do this, Look at the publicity shot.

619
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:59.700
Series 4 publicity shot on the, you know, on the side table as in

620
00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:00.839
the hospital as she leaves.

621
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:04.680
They used to do one every year, you know, to commemorate another

622
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:05.759
year in the Del Squadron.

623
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:08.700
No, no, I mean, within the series in the show.

624
00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:09.420
Yeah, yeah.

625
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:13.380
But every time they allow Tim Ross to do something different, it

626
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:16.259
does rather point out that he has been standing at that absolutely

627
00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:21.480
way saying, they are firing at us for 7 years, I'll never stop

628
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.240
quoting that line from that convention where he said that.

629
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.720
Was that the one where I was standing behind the console saying

630
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:29.039
they're firing at us, sir.

631
00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.279
He's so good.

632
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:33.660
I tell you what.

633
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.539
I follow all these people on Twitter, obviously, because of course

634
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:39.900
they do, and he's wonderful, Tim Ross.

635
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.579
He's a smart man.

636
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:43.799
Did I ever tell you the story about him and Technobabble?

637
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:45.000
Can I drop it in now really quickly?

638
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:45.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

639
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:46.980
Nothing's going on.

640
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:48.059
So I've got a quote.

641
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.599
There won't be for about half an hour, don't worry.

642
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:55.200
Where he's going, you know, and it's just so unnatural.

643
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:59.460
He goes for a scene where you've got a character beat and then a

644
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:02.460
whole load of technobabble and then a character beat and then a

645
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:03.420
whole load of technobabble.

646
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.000
He goes, and the flow of the scene, they just don't work and he

647
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.779
said, it's fundamentally a problem with Star Trek in that you are

648
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:16.200
putting genuine human emotion and fucking wacky nonsensical

649
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:20.640
science in the same scene and you're being thrown between one and

650
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.460
as an actor, he's like, how do you fucking sell that?

651
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:27.480
So, I mean, the idea is, let's just say, you do.

652
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:30.599
Yeah, I mean, the idea is that they're working, you know, so

653
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.539
they're doing some work, and then they stop doing work, and talk

654
00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:36.660
to each other a bit, and then talk about the work for a bit, and

655
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:37.140
then go on.

656
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.240
And that's the sort of thing that you might do in a procedural

657
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:40.140
show anyway.

658
00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:43.019
But Star Trek has a particular...

659
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:44.220
I thought it was so interesting.

660
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:47.400
The way he's talking about going from the natural to the unnatural

661
00:28:47.460 --> 00:28:48.480
so quickly.

662
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.400
I've never really heard anyone kind of criticise the techno babble

663
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:53.640
before.

664
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.579
And I was like, well, good for you for saying it, you know, so

665
00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:59.220
we've got another John Billingsley on our hands here.

666
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:00.960
He was willing to say it how it is.

667
00:29:01.019 --> 00:29:03.839
And it is a particularly 90s Star Trek thing.

668
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:08.400
It's, there's not, there is technobabble in Kurtzman Trek, but not

669
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.000
in the same way.

670
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.279
And there's hardly enough.

671
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:15.359
There's 10 about when DS 9, but in the latter years, again, it's

672
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:15.960
not in the same way.

673
00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:19.079
It's not, you know, they used to literally write, insert

674
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.420
technovabble here in the scripts.

675
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.119
Oh, can we talk about this set, please?

676
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:25.380
The funeral set.

677
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.019
Ah, again.

678
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:30.599
It's a soap opera.

679
00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:34.259
You know where you can find trees, Catherine, outside.

680
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.339
Do you know what?

681
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.119
And they look, they put that mournful gray sky behind there

682
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:42.599
haven't they?

683
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:47.039
I mean, to be fair, we've come on a bit from, you know, the studio

684
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.079
sties of TNG series one.

685
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:50.279
We've come on a little bit.

686
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:55.619
So this is said, I think, in 23, 2404.

687
00:29:55.859 --> 00:30:01.380
So it's set just around about the time, I think, that Picard is

688
00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:03.119
set now.

689
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:04.140
Yeah.

690
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.000
So the beginning of the 24th century.

691
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.339
I mean, there's no reason why Admiral Janeway can't appear in

692
00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:11.880
Picard.

693
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:13.380
That makes no reason at all.

694
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.480
Yeah, she appeared in nemesis.

695
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:16.140
Yep.

696
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:17.880
Yeah. there you go.

697
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:20.759
Oh, right, here we go.

698
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:23.160
So finally, now we're in present day Voyager.

699
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:24.839
Where are we?

700
00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:25.319
Hang on.

701
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:28.200
We're in, and this is...

702
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.980
This is the 1st point in the episode where anything is actually

703
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.420
relevant because...

704
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:36.359
Well, except that we don't know what's happened.

705
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.559
Do you know what I mean?

706
00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:42.359
We know that this isn't the future, like we know, I think, do we

707
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:43.259
know it?

708
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:45.000
We know it before the opening credits.

709
00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:48.420
The big surprise is we're watching the show in order to see

710
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:50.160
Voyager come home to Earth.

711
00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:53.519
The very 1st thing we see, oh, it's arrived on earth.

712
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:54.059
That was quick.

713
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:55.079
What's going to happen now?

714
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:59.279
And then we see that that was 14 years ago or whatever.

715
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.319
Um, 14, 10?

716
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:06.119
I just say, poor dumb Tom Paris heading off the Sick Bay with our

717
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:07.259
his pregnant missus.

718
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.279
Oh, please.

719
00:31:08.339 --> 00:31:09.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

720
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:10.200
I'm sorry.

721
00:31:10.259 --> 00:31:12.359
I know you love this shit, don't you?

722
00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:13.859
You love this sitcom shit.

723
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:15.960
No, but this is bad sitcom stuff.

724
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:17.579
Like, this is tedious sitcom stuff.

725
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:18.180
That's terrible.

726
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.839
Like, I think sometimes that stuff can be funny.

727
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:26.400
And I think it is a thing that happens, you know, think about the

728
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.240
giving birth in disaster where Keiko's giving birth.

729
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.640
And that's probably funny.

730
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:34.259
I'm trying.

731
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:34.799
Yeah, yeah.

732
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:37.500
It's absolutely going for laughs and getting them.

733
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.859
And I think that that's a thing that happens here.

734
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.240
I, you know, like...

735
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.039
Do you mean every time someone's going to have a baby?

736
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.539
Star Trek.

737
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:46.920
We're going to end up in sick.

738
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.799
I mean, it does happen in DS9 as well, with Shakara and O'Brien go

739
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:50.700
through that door at the same time.

740
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:51.539
Yeah, that's true.

741
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:52.019
That's true.

742
00:31:52.259 --> 00:31:56.519
Again, there's a sword of joke, and it is a little bit lame where

743
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.720
you have Tom Paris complaining that he's not getting any sleep

744
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:05.400
because of these continuing false labours, and the doctor just

745
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:07.920
looks at him and says, you think you've got a problem now.

746
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.680
You know, like that's sort of cute.

747
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:13.079
I mean, it's not particularly inventive or clever.

748
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:16.680
Oh, no, sorry to interrupt you.

749
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:18.359
I'm so sorry.

750
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:22.559
But you just said, the new the new chef is thinking of doing warp

751
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:23.519
cordon blue.

752
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:26.700
It's so bad.

753
00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:30.240
The dialogue is so bad, but look how charming the 2 of them are.

754
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:33.539
Like, the 2 of them are actually, like she's smiling.

755
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.859
He's smiling properly.

756
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.680
The 2nd worst Robert is giving it a go.

757
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:43.140
The few moments where they lean into Jay Wern Shakose.

758
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:47.460
Do you remember when she goes off the rails in equinox after

759
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:48.119
ransom?

760
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:52.500
And Chakotay's genuinely thinking of like staging a coup because

761
00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:54.180
she is so psychotic.

762
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.579
They're a really interesting parent.

763
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.799
I don't know why they ignore them for so much of the rum.

764
00:32:58.920 --> 00:32:59.579
Yeah.

765
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.559
Oh, no, here we go.

766
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:04.019
I'm sorry, it's going to be me saying, 0 no, here we go for most

767
00:33:04.019 --> 00:33:04.319
of this.

768
00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:08.460
This is introduced like 2 episodes from the end or something.

769
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:10.140
This is the 1st time we've seen them date.

770
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:12.000
It is an episode called Human Era.

771
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:17.460
What happened was 7 of 9 is, I think she's exploring Chakotay on

772
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:18.180
the holodeck.

773
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:24.539
And what happens at the end of the episode is it resets.

774
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:27.480
The doctor says, you can't experience these emotions because of

775
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.819
your quote unquote or something like that.

776
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.519
Some techno babble shit as to why they can't develop these

777
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:33.059
characters.

778
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.880
And so we think it's dropped.

779
00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:37.500
And then it's just suddenly picked up here again.

780
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:38.940
It's odd.

781
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:42.839
Well, I think it's standing in for changing relationships as the

782
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:43.500
thing ends.

783
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:49.079
You know, we've, I guess we've seen Tom and B'Elana get close.

784
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:51.480
Have we seen Calto before?

785
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.319
Oh, we have, haven't we?

786
00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:56.759
Oh, no, Chubo plays this all the time throughout Voyages Rum.

787
00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:58.559
And he's always playing against Harry Kim as well.

788
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:01.440
Yeah, so this is this is actually this is probably the most

789
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:03.839
leaning into the path we get in the whole website.

790
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:04.799
Yeah, yeah.

791
00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:06.240
And this is quite good, actually.

792
00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:08.280
Actually, I don't mind...

793
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.739
Every time I see YouTube, I get a slight itching of the eye.

794
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awful, that thing, doing that to me. card

795
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.239
series one.

796
00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:15.900
Oh, well.

797
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.340
It is awful.

798
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.260
But every time I see it, I do chuckle.

799
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.239
I'm going to say...

800
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.860
Harry Kim is such a chump, isn't he?

801
00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:26.340
I'm sorry.

802
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.880
This bit in a minute where they give Tom Paris the pip.

803
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:31.019
Is it in this episode?

804
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.019
No, I don't think he gets appeared.

805
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.659
Because he's already Lieutenant, isn't he?

806
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.960
I watched Unimetrics 0 earlier in the week.

807
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:40.320
Sorry.

808
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:41.699
I'm getting confused.

809
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:43.920
But he never had a promotion, did he?

810
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:44.760
Nope, no.

811
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:45.599
Yeah.

812
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:46.440
Yeah.

813
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:48.780
So they should have made a point of that.

814
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:52.079
His mother does when he finally speaks to his mom in series 7.

815
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.539
She goes, Harry, why haven't you had a promotion?

816
00:34:55.980 --> 00:35:00.179
We see that, which I hear is a realistic depiction, you know?

817
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:08.760
It's it's kind of a shame that that they come home and it's such a

818
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:09.659
surprise to them.

819
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:15.599
And I think if we had had time this episode to explore kind of

820
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:20.400
their feelings about, like do a light Borg thing or whatever, and

821
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.099
explore their feelings about not being together anymore, I think

822
00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:25.380
that would have been interesting and it would have been doable and

823
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:27.000
we could have still had a Star Trek episode.

824
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:27.900
Yeah, interesting.

825
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:32.699
Because the one kind of sentiment they really do here is we're a

826
00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:35.219
family now. is what's important.

827
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.099
And then we're home and we don't deal with any of the fallout of

828
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:38.519
that at all.

829
00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:42.179
Whereas do you remember DS9, the 2nd half of the DS9 finale is

830
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:44.639
them all going their separate ways and having to deal with the

831
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.260
fact that they're all going their separate ways.

832
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.219
It's really heartbreaking.

833
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:49.800
Can I talk about how shittily this is directed?

834
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:55.260
So this is stellar cartography, astrometrics, one of those.

835
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:56.460
We're in astrometrics.

836
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:58.860
It's the place, I saw this tweet during the week.

837
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.699
It's the place where 7 goes to give the PowerPoint presentations

838
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:06.059
about this week's space anomaly to the rest of the crew.

839
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:07.619
Astrometrics.

840
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:10.199
She's speaking to Neelix on the screen.

841
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:14.579
And for some reason, the director can't get their eyelines right

842
00:36:14.579 --> 00:36:17.639
or isn't even attempting to get their eyelines right.

843
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.760
So they don't at any point look like they're looking at one

844
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.119
another and it's really kind of terrible.

845
00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:26.099
Like it's really just not very good.

846
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:31.079
Well, can I say the irony that Neelix?

847
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.679
Lovely, lovely Neelix who I know you're very keen on.

848
00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:37.380
Um, but I would say the audience as a whole.

849
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.679
He's probably the least favourite character on Voyager, or one off

850
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:45.300
got the best ending of the entire crew, but he got a whole episode

851
00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:46.800
dealing with him leaving the ship.

852
00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:50.039
And now we get to learn that he's in fact very happy and he's got

853
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:50.519
a nice family.

854
00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:51.960
GoDelix.

855
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.239
Yeah, and that's it, that's him, isn't it?

856
00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:55.920
Or is he back later in this episode?

857
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:56.639
I can't believe.

858
00:36:56.699 --> 00:36:57.599
That's his one little scene.

859
00:36:57.659 --> 00:36:59.099
Well, he had to appear at some point.

860
00:36:59.460 --> 00:36:59.760
Yeah.

861
00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:00.119
I think so.

862
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:00.420
Yeah.

863
00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:00.780
Yeah.

864
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:01.920
I should have got Kes back.

865
00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:04.980
For some reason now, the director was shooting this handheld.

866
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.079
Did you notice that going behind their backs there as if this was

867
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:08.699
a dramatic scene for some reason.

868
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:09.780
That's all right, whatever.

869
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.659
But so this is kind of interesting.

870
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:16.199
So they've found this bundle of wormholes that lead to the alpha

871
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:21.239
quadrant and we'll later find out that it's a Borg transwarp hub.

872
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:23.579
That line I really like.

873
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:29.760
So the thing, the thing where they discuss the possibility, you

874
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:32.820
know, don't tell your mom, you know, I could tell my mother and I

875
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:35.639
could be home at my mother's place, you know, by the end of the

876
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:41.280
day if we go there and um, and Janeway sort of says, oh, yeah, well

877
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.579
look into it, uh, you know, who knows we might find one that ends

878
00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:45.900
up in your mother's living room.

879
00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:51.000
And then, and then later on at the end of the scene, Janeway says

880
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.340
call your mother and tell her to move the sofa.

881
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:54.840
I think that's a cute line.

882
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:59.159
Like, that's a sort of sweet bantery kind of line that doesn't

883
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:00.960
make me want to...

884
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:03.599
I'd say to you.

885
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:05.099
I thought that was really agonising.

886
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:05.820
Oh, dear.

887
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:06.420
We really are.

888
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.000
We are in different places, but there's something going on.

889
00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:12.000
Well, it's just that so often the Voyager banter is so bad.

890
00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:17.039
And often it involves Beltran, Robert Duncan McNeil.

891
00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:18.539
And so it's really awful.

892
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.880
I do think, though, that whilst the banter is frequently

893
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:25.139
shockingly awful.

894
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.739
I do think there is a genuine chemistry between the crew.

895
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.300
And when they're all in scenes together.

896
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.539
I do feel that sort of family feel that they're going for.

897
00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:36.539
And that's, I think, I don't think it's the characterisation.

898
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:40.079
I think it's the actors that have worked together for 7 years and

899
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.840
I really relaxed around each other and love being together.

900
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.179
So, you know, I will give them that.

901
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.340
And I think they're playing it up this episode.

902
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:50.460
I think they are going out of their way to be a little bit more

903
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:53.400
kind of at ease with one another in their performances.

904
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:58.679
I've never met anyone at all who has a strange vocal tick every

905
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.199
time they lie like this, like Reg Barkley.

906
00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:02.639
So stupid.

907
00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:03.840
What is this?

908
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:06.900
Him jumping on the Voy Japan waggon series 6 and seven.

909
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.579
It's very strange edition.

910
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:09.659
I like it.

911
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:11.099
Like, I like it.

912
00:39:11.099 --> 00:39:13.199
And, you know, it's not just him on his own.

913
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:15.900
It is him and Deanna.

914
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.780
Yeah, you should have been Troy in this one.

915
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:19.559
This should be amazing.

916
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:21.360
Yeah, yeah, it would have been pretty good.

917
00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:22.739
It would have been lovely to see you.

918
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.079
She'd just lie through her teeth, wouldn't she, Troy?

919
00:39:25.139 --> 00:39:25.920
Oh, yeah.

920
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:27.000
She's off somewhere, you know.

921
00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:29.039
That would have been really good, wouldn't it?

922
00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:31.800
But they would have put her in ageing makeup and no one wants to

923
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:32.159
see that.

924
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:33.539
We've seen man other people.

925
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:34.679
We don't need to go there again.

926
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:38.460
I do like the older Janeway going off and doing all this

927
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:41.099
subterfuge, you know, going off to the Klingons, getting this

928
00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:44.880
better, stealing it without giving them the money. you know I do

929
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:45.360
like all of that.

930
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:46.920
Oh, they've broken their word.

931
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.440
Like he breaks his word and so she says, all right, well, screw

932
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.679
it.

933
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:50.519
I'm just gonna take it.

934
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:53.039
It's really good and she gets to do fun things.

935
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:54.119
I think those scenes are fun.

936
00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:59.880
It's fun to see her doing that stuff. of this ever happened.

937
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.619
I'm not going to stop saying that, I know.

938
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:02.400
I just watched it.

939
00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:05.039
It happened as much as anything else on the show ever happened.

940
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:05.820
We're watching it now.

941
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:09.300
If you say so, okay.

942
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:12.300
Some of it really happened, and then the rest of it did.

943
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:14.460
Shut up.

944
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.840
Is this fiction?

945
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:20.699
Yeah, what?

946
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.059
Yes.

947
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:21.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

948
00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:23.159
Yeah, it's not a documentary.

949
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:24.780
This commentary is really happening, right?

950
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:25.739
Right now.

951
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:26.280
Yeah.

952
00:40:26.340 --> 00:40:27.780
No, this is fiction as well.

953
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:29.280
It's on a TV screen.

954
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:31.500
Love you.

955
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.500
Someone's devised this thing, okay?

956
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

957
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:35.460
Yeah.

958
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:43.860
Um, what do you think about the fabulous shuttle with the shields

959
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:47.039
you know, the physical shields, the emerge around the shuttle?

960
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:47.699
Why not?

961
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:48.420
We can do that now.

962
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.019
Let's do it.

963
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:50.159
Yeah.

964
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:52.320
I do like the fact that they give it to Voyager.

965
00:40:52.380 --> 00:40:54.360
Again, I wish they'd had that earlier.

966
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:55.800
That would have been really useful.

967
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:59.159
Yeah, but, you know, we're like Planetorus's daughter.

968
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:02.460
Yeah, yeah, I think she's good.

969
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:06.360
And she's, you know, I think it's lovely to see her in an episode

970
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:09.960
where she's just going to be born and seeing how sort of fabulous

971
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.800
she is as well.

972
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:11.519
She's pretty good.

973
00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:12.539
Yeah.

974
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:14.219
Or could be.

975
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:15.900
Well, you know, whatever.

976
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:18.659
That's all we're going to say.

977
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.579
Okay, we just forgot about that.

978
00:41:20.699 --> 00:41:22.079
It's all we're getting.

979
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:25.139
You are your mother's daughter.

980
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:26.699
That means you got a fiery temper.

981
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:27.659
Yeah, yeah.

982
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.420
We have talked about that being slightly problematic, but there's

983
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:32.699
no getting away from it now at this point, I think.

984
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:34.440
What do you think of the new uniforms?

985
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:37.079
Yeah.

986
00:41:38.579 --> 00:41:41.099
The Voyager uniforms are a bit of a problem anyway.

987
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:45.659
We said how much they look like kind of pyjamas and stuff in, uh

988
00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:49.380
in state of flocks, how ridiculous they looked when they've got

989
00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:52.260
you know, there's the pockets where they put the tricorder in a

990
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:54.480
pocket and they put their phase in a pocket.

991
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:55.860
They just look ridiculous.

992
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:56.639
Yeah, yeah.

993
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:00.780
I think the worst uniform, those are the early DS9 ones with all

994
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:03.119
the black and then just a little bit of colour on the top.

995
00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:04.739
That's the Voyager uniforms.

996
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.019
Like, that's where I'll touch it very much.

997
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:09.000
Yeah, I think there are...

998
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:09.719
I like the gray.

999
00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:11.820
You know, it's a bit more muscular.

1000
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1001
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:16.920
Well, I really like, I love the discovery, the red ones.

1002
00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:22.199
I really like those ones Yeah, well, the the 31st century ones or

1003
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:22.800
what if they are.

1004
00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:24.599
I don't even know what century they're anymore.

1005
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:27.780
Kind of sexy, though, fitted.

1006
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.900
Do you know, um, I do remember a line from earlier in the episode

1007
00:42:30.900 --> 00:42:34.079
that is very funny and that is, it's not a line so much, it's the

1008
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:36.960
delivery when Bilana Torre says, I want you to get this thing out

1009
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:37.559
of me.

1010
00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:40.320
No, I think she delivers that brilliant.

1011
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.039
If you can trust anyone to be angry.

1012
00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:45.239
It's Roxanne Dawson.

1013
00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:45.599
Yeah.

1014
00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:47.760
Look at Jayway's face here.

1015
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:48.900
Look talking to this Klingon.

1016
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:49.980
Yeah, no, she's really good.

1017
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.059
She's really good.

1018
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:51.659
This is good stuff.

1019
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:54.179
This is like gambit. only not good.

1020
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:56.099
I mean, only good.

1021
00:42:56.219 --> 00:42:57.059
Only good.

1022
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:58.260
That's right.

1023
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:00.719
Gambit is not good, just in case I said that.

1024
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:02.760
I think there's only one word for that expression and that is

1025
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:03.360
steel.

1026
00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:05.880
She has steel with her eyes.

1027
00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:07.019
She's really good.

1028
00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:10.980
So what is she after?

1029
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:13.860
I'd never figure out what she was after.

1030
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:14.760
Time Crystal.

1031
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:15.480
I don't know.

1032
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:16.440
A thing.

1033
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:19.440
I just assumed it was a time crystal because they're Klingon

1034
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.480
things, but it isn't.

1035
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:23.940
It is something else, but it's whatever she needs.

1036
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:25.019
How far in the future is this?

1037
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:26.280
From 21 years.

1038
00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:27.119
Or just time?

1039
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.599
Yeah.

1040
00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:28.260
21.

1041
00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:31.619
So in the last 21 years, there's been an episode of Star Trek

1042
00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:34.920
which introduces these crystals that's been very relevant.

1043
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:37.619
Obviously, we've never seen it because we're not privy to anything

1044
00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:38.639
that happened.

1045
00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:40.320
I can't remember. 15 years?

1046
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:41.099
I don't know.

1047
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:42.179
I have lost count.

1048
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:43.440
Another so many years.

1049
00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.780
I mean, they may as well just say a thing, mightn't they?

1050
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:47.219
Like, for all the relevance it is.

1051
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:49.019
Why don't we see Chell?

1052
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:50.280
I don't want to see Chell.

1053
00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:51.900
Is he like, I guess Chell is like...

1054
00:43:52.019 --> 00:43:54.780
We saw a, did we see a bowling, offering out drinks?

1055
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:55.860
Oh, okay.

1056
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.179
Right, that must have been him.

1057
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:59.519
I don't think it was chill, though, because he's overweight, isn't

1058
00:43:59.519 --> 00:43:59.699
he?

1059
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:00.300
Okay.

1060
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.239
Because there's chef, isn't there, in Enterprise who we never

1061
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:03.539
see?

1062
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:05.400
Do we ever say chef in Enterprise?

1063
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:07.079
I don't know.

1064
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:09.960
All I remember was in that episode where Tubok had to get the

1065
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:12.539
marquee people in line and he made them run around the ship for 40

1066
00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:12.840
minutes.

1067
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.900
That was overweight bullion.

1068
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:17.820
I think it was Chow actually.

1069
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.420
It was, it was, it was really sulky as well.

1070
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:22.860
Was it Vorik as well?

1071
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.559
Like, he was just...

1072
00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:26.639
Yeah.

1073
00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:29.280
Oh my god, it's a massive Borg cube.

1074
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:30.960
That is actually a...

1075
00:44:31.019 --> 00:44:31.920
That's so good.

1076
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:36.000
Where they duck, like they're even ducking because the...

1077
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:37.139
They save some money for this.

1078
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:38.880
The special effects are very good.

1079
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.019
I think.

1080
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.300
And I think later on, when you see the big ball city.

1081
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:43.679
The array looks amazing.

1082
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.460
It's terrific.

1083
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:45.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1084
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:46.679
But it's nothing new.

1085
00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:48.179
That's the bad way issue.

1086
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:53.280
But I guess, you know, Voyager has the Borg as it's being bad for

1087
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.940
I guess, you know, like it is kind of unavoidable.

1088
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.719
I think you do want to have them do something, defeat the Borg.

1089
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.860
I love how the ball queen has a sense of occasion because what

1090
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.980
she's got is a spotlight that moves and follows her around

1091
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:08.940
wherever she goes.

1092
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:10.440
So, you know, it's very dramatic.

1093
00:45:10.500 --> 00:45:14.400
So this isn't the same Borg queen that we had in Unimatrix zero.

1094
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:21.840
Now, that's Susanna Thompson, who did a few guest spots on Star

1095
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.099
Trek the Next Generation.

1096
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:28.079
And she was she was Lenara Khan in Rejoined.

1097
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:30.059
She was the Nazi ex-lover.

1098
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:31.800
Fantastic in that too.

1099
00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:32.219
Yeah.

1100
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:32.820
Yeah.

1101
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:35.039
No, so she's very different from the ball queen.

1102
00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:36.059
Yeah, yeah.

1103
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.460
And so, but this is the ball queen from 1st contact.

1104
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.460
And I guess that's fair enough because, you know, one of the

1105
00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:45.840
reasons that we have the Borg in Voyager, am I getting the timing

1106
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:46.199
ride?

1107
00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:49.860
One of the reasons we have the Borgian Voyager is because they're

1108
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:52.380
reusing props and costumes and stuff from 1st contact.

1109
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.179
Very possibly, yes.

1110
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:58.320
No, I mean, I genuinely think that they meet the Borg at that and

1111
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.199
we see them over and over again because we've got all that stuff.

1112
00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:03.719
I think initially it was a creative choice.

1113
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:07.260
I think, you know, they're like, we could do something interesting

1114
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:07.739
with that.

1115
00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:08.280
And they do.

1116
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:09.480
They absolutely do.

1117
00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:10.800
But yeah, you're right.

1118
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.320
If we can borrow the sets and they're for the 1st contact.

1119
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:13.679
Why not?

1120
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:17.639
And in fact, here, this is one of the 1st times where we're seeing

1121
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:21.119
those sort of 1st contact cubes, which, you know, it's not just a

1122
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:24.239
square, it's got a bit more depth to it and layers.

1123
00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:25.199
Yeah, yeah.

1124
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:26.880
And also... maybe they're boring.

1125
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:27.659
They're special effects as well.

1126
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:30.360
Yeah, but the way that they're directed, like they're directed to

1127
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:32.159
look like squares normally.

1128
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:35.579
And so if you can direct them so that they're coming into the shot

1129
00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:39.420
at an angle or something so they look more like physical objects.

1130
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:42.719
Like you remember in best of both worlds, the cube is just looking

1131
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:47.340
at you straight on and in that one, we got to see its angles and

1132
00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:48.659
stuff and it was a little bit more interesting.

1133
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:50.280
Do you remember?

1134
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.340
And Q-Hoo, when we saw a close-up on the cube regenerating and

1135
00:46:53.340 --> 00:46:55.019
all...

1136
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:57.119
That was so creepy, wasn't it?

1137
00:46:57.179 --> 00:46:59.820
Whatever happened to the ball being that creepy?

1138
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:04.739
Do you think that what that was was a plastic model of the surface

1139
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:09.000
that they just ran a hairdryer over and then played the film

1140
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:09.480
backward?

1141
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.059
I don't I reckon it could have been.

1142
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.659
No, no, I think it looks it looks really weird.

1143
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:16.860
I couldn't quite figure it out.

1144
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:18.480
So that's what I liked about it.

1145
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:21.179
Whereas, you know, I'm going to be a bit mean again.

1146
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:24.300
Now the Borg are literally reduced to someone standing there

1147
00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:28.500
strutting in a spotlight going, I am going to take you down, you

1148
00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:30.659
know, and just not interesting.

1149
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.980
Yeah, but I mean, with the board queen can work and we saw that in

1150
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:38.699
that episode of Picard series too, that we watched where that Borg

1151
00:47:38.699 --> 00:47:41.940
queen in Picard was just magnificent, so properly good.

1152
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.340
But that's because they were doing something interesting

1153
00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:46.739
psychologically with Agnes as well.

1154
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.320
And that was really kind of creepy.

1155
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:52.260
But it's...

1156
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:57.000
Yeah, but when the Borg 1st arrived too, remember, that the makeup

1157
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.440
they're just white, right?

1158
00:47:58.500 --> 00:47:59.940
They've just got white skin.

1159
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.159
And the mottled zombie Borg only really come in in 1st contact.

1160
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:09.960
And that's the version of the Borg that Voyager brings us.

1161
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:15.480
So I just watched Scorpion part 2 like a week or so ago and seeing

1162
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.579
Jerry Ryan as the sort of mottled kind of zombie borg is pretty

1163
00:48:20.579 --> 00:48:20.820
great.

1164
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.099
She's pretty good. how far she's come.

1165
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:23.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1166
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:26.219
But you know, you know the bit later on, obviously, where the

1167
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:30.599
older Janeway confronts or doesn't, because she's a hologram, the

1168
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:31.320
ball queen.

1169
00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:34.800
And I feel like it's supposed to be this sort of climactic moment

1170
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:38.820
between these 2 characters, you know, from this story between

1171
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:39.119
them.

1172
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:41.699
And it's just not there, is it?

1173
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:43.739
It's not what it should be.

1174
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:44.760
The special effects are great.

1175
00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:47.340
Our arms are falling off and it looks amazing.

1176
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:51.719
But it doesn't have a sense of occasion that it probably should

1177
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:52.019
have.

1178
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:56.340
And so what we have in this scene is them very, very quickly

1179
00:48:56.340 --> 00:49:00.780
dealing with that, the conclusion to, what did you say it was

1180
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:01.139
called?

1181
00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:02.940
Human error.

1182
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:03.659
Human error.

1183
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:04.800
Not called real life.

1184
00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:05.639
That's another one.

1185
00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:08.820
Um, so human era.

1186
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.900
What does he say?

1187
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.320
Yes, suddenly your cortical nodes are not being affected.

1188
00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:16.559
No, no, he says, I've been working on a thing and instead of being

1189
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:22.619
a series of procedures that will take a lot of time, you just come

1190
00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:25.139
here after work and I'll have it done by the time the commercial

1191
00:49:25.139 --> 00:49:25.559
breaks over.

1192
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:28.199
Do not think through these seasons, Nathan.

1193
00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:30.000
No, that's it, isn't it?

1194
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:33.539
But I think they, I think that they just did whatever ending they

1195
00:49:33.539 --> 00:49:36.900
needed to make human error work and they relied on the fact that

1196
00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:40.079
you can just bullshit your way with techno babble through that

1197
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:41.699
sort of thing and at a lot.

1198
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.420
But also as well, right?

1199
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:45.659
This shows they are pandering to these sort of people because who

1200
00:49:45.659 --> 00:49:48.239
gives a fuck how human error ended.

1201
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:49.679
Just letting them have the romance.

1202
00:49:49.739 --> 00:49:50.340
Yeah.

1203
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:51.420
Yeah.

1204
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.539
Well, I mean, you know, part of the thing about the late season

1205
00:49:54.539 --> 00:49:59.219
romance, though, is that, you know, like they did with Troy and

1206
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:00.719
and Worf.

1207
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:05.219
They only do it because it doesn't have any consequences and they

1208
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:06.179
don't have to worry about it.

1209
00:50:07.380 --> 00:50:09.360
Do you know what it means?

1210
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:10.079
having that scene.

1211
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:13.079
It means the techno babble is as important as the emotion.

1212
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:14.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1213
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:14.820
Yeah.

1214
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:15.659
That's a problem.

1215
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:18.360
Oh, here she goes.

1216
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:19.500
Okay, here's the older joke.

1217
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.599
I'm going to stop bitching because older Janeway is about to be

1218
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:22.920
very cool. very fabulous.

1219
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:26.940
And taking your technology and I don't give a damn.

1220
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:29.699
It is so wonderful, isn't she?

1221
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:31.500
Bless her.

1222
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:32.460
She is great.

1223
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:34.199
Oh my god, I love this.

1224
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:35.579
I love that armour so much.

1225
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:36.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1226
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:37.500
Do you know what it looks like?

1227
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:38.820
looks like an armadillo, doesn't it?

1228
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:40.260
Yeah, yeah. really terrific.

1229
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:43.440
And you can see it's beaming into existence around the ship.

1230
00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:48.000
Like you get the the transporter um effect.

1231
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:50.159
I think it's really good, you know.

1232
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:52.860
She said, what do you want?

1233
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.239
She has no fucks left again.

1234
00:50:57.300 --> 00:50:59.579
You can't do it better with Kai Wynn just before he killed her.

1235
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:02.219
He said, are you still here?

1236
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:09.000
She just hangs up on him.

1237
00:51:09.059 --> 00:51:09.840
Sorry, busy.

1238
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:13.800
Do we do we know that she's often a future to chase things yet?

1239
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.960
Or do we don't not know until she emerges?

1240
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.639
No, I got the impression I can't, I don't know, because I was

1241
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.039
watching it, having watched it before and knowing what the premise

1242
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:23.519
was.

1243
00:51:23.579 --> 00:51:26.880
But when I watched this, I wasn't, oh, here we go, here's Harry.

1244
00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:30.480
I think it becomes clear to even the very slow-witted viewers

1245
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:34.619
amongst us what's happening because Harry's here to stop her.

1246
00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:35.699
Yeah.

1247
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:40.199
Oh, no, it doesn't she says something by Chakotay's grave, maybe?

1248
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:40.860
I can't remember.

1249
00:51:41.219 --> 00:51:45.059
This is exactly how timeless plays out, though. when La Forge

1250
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:46.199
turns up to stop Harry.

1251
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.619
Garrett Wagn must be going, I'm getting, I'm getting deja vu

1252
00:51:49.619 --> 00:51:49.920
here.

1253
00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:52.679
I was on the other side of this conversation last time.

1254
00:51:52.739 --> 00:51:57.480
Well, you know how we said that not enough had gone wrong for her

1255
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:01.440
to change the timeline and for everyone to let her change the

1256
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:02.099
timeline?

1257
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:05.460
And that's the genius of timeless, isn't it?

1258
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:09.780
Because it's got that incredible visual of the of the ship under

1259
00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:13.500
the ice, which is incredibly well realised.

1260
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:18.300
And and so there's a very potent scene at the end where he leaves

1261
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:19.920
the message to himself as well.

1262
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:21.000
I love that.

1263
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:25.440
So it's not a reset button because Harry knows about it. he

1264
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:28.260
doesn't quite know how that message gets there, but it's really

1265
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:29.039
properly good.

1266
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:34.019
Do you know, I really like this scene because I think the Harry

1267
00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:35.639
Janeway relationship.

1268
00:52:35.699 --> 00:52:38.460
That has been played out throughout the entire run.

1269
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:41.400
She has been like a mother figure to him.

1270
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:43.800
They've had a few spats along the way.

1271
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.199
He's thrown his toys out of the pram a few times.

1272
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:50.699
And I like the fact that he's coming in now and he's a captain and

1273
00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:52.860
he's basically saying, look, I'm here to tell you back, all

1274
00:52:52.860 --> 00:52:53.039
right?

1275
00:52:53.099 --> 00:52:54.599
What about this?

1276
00:52:54.659 --> 00:52:55.800
Did she just talk him around?

1277
00:52:55.860 --> 00:52:56.280
can't remember.

1278
00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:57.179
Did she just talk about that?

1279
00:52:57.239 --> 00:53:01.679
She actually says, I remember a young Harry wanting us to fly into

1280
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:06.059
a nest of wormholes that was a Borg drone thing, you know, in

1281
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:07.260
order to find a way home.

1282
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:11.099
So she's actually talking about the event that we've just seen

1283
00:53:11.099 --> 00:53:14.099
like reminiscing about the event that we've seen in the present

1284
00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:15.659
timeline, which I kind of like.

1285
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:21.599
I think, again, all of the all of the relationships are so

1286
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:23.760
promising and just never go anywhere.

1287
00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:30.000
And so we've said that the one between Chakotay and Janeway was

1288
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.280
often good and had the potential to be really good.

1289
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:35.760
The relationship between Janeway and Tuvok, which they're really

1290
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:40.860
leaning into in this plot is also just really, really excellent

1291
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.079
and just absolutely underused.

1292
00:53:43.139 --> 00:53:47.340
And the relationship between her and Garrett's character, again, is

1293
00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:50.760
just wonderful and it really, really had the potential because

1294
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.400
he's that age, you know.

1295
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:54.480
Yeah.

1296
00:53:54.539 --> 00:53:57.960
What's frustrating is, is throughout the rum that you could

1297
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:02.579
probably cite like what, maybe 3 occasions or episodes where those

1298
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:04.139
relationships really hear.

1299
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:05.039
Yeah.

1300
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.699
So you know, you just, you know it could work brilliantly.

1301
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:12.539
And then, and then we're stuck doing procedurals and working

1302
00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:16.980
things going on and salamander babies and but I don't think those

1303
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:21.960
things are inconsistent or like incompatible with good Star Trek.

1304
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:26.340
And if you look at Strange New Worlds, it does those things, the

1305
00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:30.300
characters have well-defined relationships with one another that

1306
00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:32.760
develop, they're fun and funny.

1307
00:54:32.820 --> 00:54:34.440
There's time to do banter.

1308
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:38.039
There's time for us to enjoy ourselves and there's time to get a

1309
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:40.199
space problem solved, you know.

1310
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:41.219
I'm sorry, Nathan.

1311
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:42.719
I'm watching.

1312
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:43.980
Kiss right now.

1313
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:45.179
Yeah.

1314
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:49.679
I mean, it is nice to see Jerry Ryan being romantic, but I much

1315
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.139
more believe her with graphic than I do with Chakotay.

1316
00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:53.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1317
00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:56.219
Although, you know, Chakotay's a handsome man, and she's a

1318
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:59.039
beautiful woman, and like, if you're going to have heterosexuals

1319
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.880
on these shows, you may as well.

1320
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:05.519
It takes away from 7 because he's so boring.

1321
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:08.820
I refuse to believe she was born for somebody, that boy.

1322
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:10.199
She just thinks it's hot, though.

1323
00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:10.920
Do you know what I mean?

1324
00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:12.300
She doesn't listen to him or anything.

1325
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.420
She switches off her auditory cortex while he's in the room and

1326
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:19.380
then just...

1327
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:23.460
But I do like seeing her playing it more relaxed, the way that she

1328
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:28.380
plays it in Picard now, where, you know, she is, she's still

1329
00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:32.280
awkward and a bit of a nerd and stuff and a little bit of a sort

1330
00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:35.940
of science geek, but she's a little bit more normal and relaxed

1331
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.320
and talks like a normal person.

1332
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:39.840
And the seeds of it are sown here.

1333
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:43.320
And I actually like her performance in this a lot, you know.

1334
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:47.340
And there was a few times in this season where they let her let

1335
00:55:47.340 --> 00:55:47.699
her.

1336
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.420
Do you remember the episode where, um, she's the doctor?

1337
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:53.940
So she's playing Robert Picardo.

1338
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.260
Do you remember that one?

1339
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:59.579
Yeah, and she's and she's flirting with people outrageously.

1340
00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:04.800
She's eating all these desserts. everything like that Oh, what's

1341
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:05.340
that one call?

1342
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:06.360
I can't remember what it was called.

1343
00:56:06.420 --> 00:56:08.820
It's absolutely hilarious She plays it up.

1344
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:10.199
Brilliantly.

1345
00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:12.900
I think they got to that point where they were just like, let's

1346
00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:13.980
just let her have fun, you know.

1347
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:16.320
I'm watching that when we finish here, you know.

1348
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:18.179
It's really really funny.

1349
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:22.199
And then she and then when she goes back to being 7 or 9 again, She

1350
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.960
tells him off she got, you made me flirt with that person.

1351
00:56:25.019 --> 00:56:27.119
You made me...

1352
00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:27.960
I got a weight.

1353
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:30.300
I've seen what I have to fit into.

1354
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:36.000
Okay, Harry's off.

1355
00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:38.639
Harry's off Is she ever going to go to the future?

1356
00:56:38.699 --> 00:56:39.960
This is taking forever.

1357
00:56:40.019 --> 00:56:42.960
Yeah, I like this scene though, but again, because it's a two

1358
00:56:42.420 --> 00:56:45.780
parter in syndication, they have to meet at halfway point.

1359
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:47.940
So we're about to hit the half going.

1360
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:48.900
Do you hear what it's called?

1361
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:49.920
A chrono.

1362
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:51.659
Chrono. what we want.

1363
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:54.300
It's not quite as good as the temporal biobed.

1364
00:56:54.360 --> 00:56:56.519
Biotemporal biotemporal therapy.

1365
00:56:56.579 --> 00:56:57.239
Was that in?

1366
00:56:57.300 --> 00:56:58.619
In before and after.

1367
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.239
Yeah.

1368
00:57:00.300 --> 00:57:01.139
Right at the beginning.

1369
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.059
Tell us what the episode was about in the 1st line.

1370
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:04.739
So bad.

1371
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:12.000
Do you know, one thing I was aware of was how you watch episodes

1372
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.159
like Sacrifice of Angel, things like that, and they had some

1373
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:15.900
fairly dynamic battles.

1374
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.699
I'm not sure why a Voyager.

1375
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:20.280
They couldn't really do exciting battle scenes.

1376
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:22.320
Generally static spaceship shooting.

1377
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:25.619
It's the next generation version of a battle scene.

1378
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:27.719
Yeah, like these are moving in a straight line.

1379
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.840
Oh, look, here's the USS Rhode Island coming in the back to save

1380
00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:31.320
the day.

1381
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:37.679
I actually got...

1382
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:43.320
The Borg Transwarp, um, hub reminded me a lot of that.

1383
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:51.000
That, um, the shipyard, that they destroy in, um, shadows and

1384
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:51.539
symbols.

1385
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:53.639
It's a couple of years later.

1386
00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:55.260
So it looks a bit more impressive.

1387
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:56.099
It does look a bit more.

1388
00:57:56.099 --> 00:57:57.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1389
00:57:57.059 --> 00:58:00.000
But it's got a similar kind of vibe, all sort of spindly and kind

1390
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.079
of weird looking.

1391
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:06.000
But I do like the idea of that, that sort of bulk city that they

1392
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:06.599
go into.

1393
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:10.199
But and then I would, my mind goes into overdrive and I'm like, oh

1394
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:12.179
you could do so many exciting things with this.

1395
00:58:12.179 --> 00:58:13.619
And it's not.

1396
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:14.340
It's just blown up.

1397
00:58:14.460 --> 00:58:17.340
Yeah, they could do it now, couldn't they?

1398
00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:22.199
I never, I'll never forget that shot from, was it Picard episode

1399
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:25.380
one where you're in the middle of the board cube and it comes out

1400
00:58:25.380 --> 00:58:28.980
and it keeps going and it keeps going and we go through all the

1401
00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:32.159
layers of the Borg ship until we come right outside of the ship

1402
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:34.019
and you see it from the distance.

1403
00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:36.900
Yeah, I think it gives, I don't know, the depth.

1404
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:38.639
Yeah, so good.

1405
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:41.880
And I was like, okay, that's that's the effects we're playing with

1406
00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:42.420
nowadays.

1407
00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:49.199
So this is, she's just come in through the wormhole and we're

1408
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:52.739
having a whole yesterday's enterprise thing only if Rachel Garrett

1409
00:58:52.739 --> 00:58:54.719
was John Luke Picard, I guess.

1410
00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:57.239
And this is the end.

1411
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:00.539
So this is the this is the cliffhanger.

1412
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:06.059
Oh, so we get the Borg Queen saying some villain line, probably

1413
00:59:06.059 --> 00:59:10.380
and there we, then we, I don't know, she just, she just looks, she

1414
00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:10.800
just looks.

1415
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.639
That's pretty good.

1416
00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:12.599
That is pretty good.

1417
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:13.199
All right.

1418
00:59:13.260 --> 00:59:14.579
Yeah, so that's it.

1419
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.219
That's our commercial break and the end of part one.

1420
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:22.380
So basically, the cliffhanger is, we're doing deadlock.

1421
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:28.019
Well, yeah, except the deadlock is is different, and I think this

1422
00:59:28.019 --> 00:59:29.099
is different.

1423
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:31.079
I think deadlock is very good.

1424
00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:33.780
I think deadlock is very good, but I think what this does is what

1425
00:59:33.780 --> 00:59:38.400
the show has to do in the finale as well, which is to re-examine

1426
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:44.280
in the decision that she made in the opening episode in the in the

1427
00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:45.840
premiere.

1428
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:52.079
So Janeway has changed and become more cynical.

1429
00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:56.820
And even look at how they, I mean, she says that she's finding it

1430
00:59:56.820 --> 00:59:58.980
hard to play against her.

1431
00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:02.880
And, you know, like they must shoot scenes where they're not with

1432
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:05.820
the other person in the room necessarily or whatever.

1433
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.460
That must happen from time to time, and it's not as good as being

1434
01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:08.820
there.

1435
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:11.280
But it's just the blocking.

1436
01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:12.480
It just looks so weird.

1437
01:00:12.539 --> 01:00:14.519
So suddenly it doesn't feel like a performance.

1438
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:16.739
It feels like an effect. the coffee offer.

1439
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:17.400
Did you see that?

1440
01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:19.079
She just took a cup of coffee.

1441
01:00:19.139 --> 01:00:21.960
She didn't look natural, though. doesn't look natural.

1442
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:24.539
They can never do this in 90 straight.

1443
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:25.260
They do it a lot.

1444
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:26.940
I don't think it ever really works.

1445
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:29.460
I remember the 1st time they tried it.

1446
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:33.300
So in 2nd chances, you've got the 2 Rikers on either side of the

1447
01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:33.719
screen.

1448
01:00:33.780 --> 01:00:38.699
The way that Samantha and Serena in Bewitched would be back in the

1449
01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:40.559
60s or early 70s.

1450
01:00:40.619 --> 01:00:43.500
You know, they could do it provided, and sometimes you would see

1451
01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:45.300
the line down the middle of the screen.

1452
01:00:45.300 --> 01:00:48.420
And they're both staying right on their side of the screen and you

1453
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:50.460
kind of think, oh, yeah, okay, I know how this is done.

1454
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:55.500
And then one Riker walks off and walks onto the other side and

1455
01:00:55.500 --> 01:00:59.340
walks around the other Riker and looks at him.

1456
01:00:59.340 --> 01:01:00.659
And it's so amazing.

1457
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:02.639
It was absolutely mind blowing at the time.

1458
01:01:02.699 --> 01:01:06.059
Do you know what's the, what I think is like the best one is in

1459
01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:10.860
Crossover, where it's Intendant and Kira, and she's flirting with

1460
01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:13.380
her and she leans in to kiss her and, you know, the effect is

1461
01:01:13.380 --> 01:01:13.679
terrible.

1462
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:17.880
I'll give him props for props for none of his, but given that a go

1463
01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:18.360
I'll tell you.

1464
01:01:18.420 --> 01:01:23.460
But, but I mean, what we have here is, like, in Janeway's right

1465
01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:27.780
okay, Voyager's home, I'm an admiral, some people died, you know

1466
01:01:27.780 --> 01:01:30.539
but fewer people than we might have expected given the way this

1467
01:01:30.539 --> 01:01:31.619
show goes normally.

1468
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:34.980
So that's a problem, as we said before.

1469
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:36.000
That's a real problem.

1470
01:01:36.059 --> 01:01:39.900
If the ship had undergone, had just limped home and lots of people

1471
01:01:39.900 --> 01:01:41.280
had dying had been really terrible.

1472
01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:42.840
Like timeless.

1473
01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:45.179
I mean, it's all right to go back and save the ship when

1474
01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:47.940
everyone's dead and they're kind of frozen in ice.

1475
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.239
But here, you know, they just, it takes them a bit longer than

1476
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:54.780
they expected and we're going to destroy the entire future to do

1477
01:01:54.780 --> 01:01:55.019
it.

1478
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.199
Like, that doesn't really make any sense.

1479
01:01:58.260 --> 01:02:03.719
And so, but let's just pretend something worse had happened.

1480
01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:08.880
Now we've got an admiral who's lived through all of that and she

1481
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:13.800
thinks that Janeway's made the wrong decision, you know, in

1482
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:15.239
caretaker, I think.

1483
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:17.699
She doesn't explicitly say that. doesn't she?

1484
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:21.960
Our Janeway does condemn her and say, no, you shouldn't be doing

1485
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:22.199
this.

1486
01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:23.460
This isn't right.

1487
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.519
Which is the right response.

1488
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:31.019
But she does, like, because what's going to happen.

1489
01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:34.199
But what ends up happening is, though, they are going to go home.

1490
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:39.420
They're going to use the technology that she has to get past the

1491
01:02:39.420 --> 01:02:44.820
Borg and then get home through the transwarp. network or whatever

1492
01:02:44.820 --> 01:02:45.059
right?

1493
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:46.380
Yeah.

1494
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:46.800
Yeah.

1495
01:02:46.860 --> 01:02:48.599
And that's all fine.

1496
01:02:48.659 --> 01:02:50.519
But then they realise that they could destroy.

1497
01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:54.599
They're in a position to destroy the conduit instead and cripple

1498
01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:56.400
the Borg, and they all decide to do that.

1499
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:59.280
And that's the decision.

1500
01:02:59.340 --> 01:03:01.139
And that's what's great.

1501
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:04.079
That's the decision that Janeway made on her own without

1502
01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:05.400
consulting anyone else.

1503
01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:09.179
And now all of the crew, including Harry, get to make the same

1504
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:10.139
decision.

1505
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:15.420
We're prepared to forego our chance at a voyage home because we

1506
01:03:15.420 --> 01:03:16.920
can do some good instead.

1507
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:19.440
And I think that's really good. think that's great.

1508
01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:20.639
Let's not go home.

1509
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:22.500
Let's do mass murder instead.

1510
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.199
No, well, let's prevent the Borg doing mass murder.

1511
01:03:25.260 --> 01:03:27.780
And they even talk about the 1000000s of people that the Borg will

1512
01:03:27.780 --> 01:03:32.099
now not kill because they don't have the transwarp network

1513
01:03:32.099 --> 01:03:32.579
anymore.

1514
01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:35.699
Like I think that's pretty good.

1515
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:37.019
You know.

1516
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:41.639
And then, and then she does, she does, you know, what I think is

1517
01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:42.179
really great.

1518
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:44.579
It turns out because we have an extra Jane way.

1519
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:49.260
We can, um, We can have our cake and eat it too.

1520
01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:53.880
So she gets to go home and destroy the Borg and that way, you know

1521
01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:59.519
just... everything about these plots that annoy me.

1522
01:03:59.579 --> 01:04:01.860
See, I love that sort of stuff.

1523
01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:04.380
I just sort of think, no screw it.

1524
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:10.019
We, you know, our Janeway has convinced Admiral Janeway.

1525
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:14.639
Like, and like has genuinely convinced Admiral Janeway, that in

1526
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:20.340
fact, you know, they're right, and the sort of cynicism that she's

1527
01:04:20.340 --> 01:04:26.519
developed is wrong, you know, and she's enjoyed meeting, you know

1528
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:30.900
the new, more ide- the fresher, more idealistic Janeway, all of

1529
01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:31.079
that.

1530
01:04:31.139 --> 01:04:31.739
I love that stuff.

1531
01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:36.659
It becomes an examination at all. how the 2 characters are very

1532
01:04:36.659 --> 01:04:41.039
different and how they are starkly contrasted against each other.

1533
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:44.400
And I do like how much of a bitch the older Jane Weirs, because

1534
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:46.800
she comes in and did you hear what she said a minute ago?

1535
01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:50.219
Well, how do you know I am not a member of Species 8472 in skies.

1536
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:53.219
You know, like she's not even like trying to pretend she might not

1537
01:04:53.219 --> 01:04:54.599
be who she says she is.

1538
01:04:54.659 --> 01:04:59.400
And it does lean into the biggest strength of Voyager, and that is

1539
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:01.920
having more K-mong group because that's never a bad thing.

1540
01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:05.039
Well, did you see that scene just then where she's standing in

1541
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:13.380
between, um, uh, Beltran, and I think it was, um, I think it must

1542
01:05:13.380 --> 01:05:17.400
have been, um, Harry, and just laughing, like old Janeway, and it

1543
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:20.219
was just really kind of fun and companion.

1544
01:05:20.699 --> 01:05:21.119
Here we go.

1545
01:05:21.179 --> 01:05:22.559
Here we go.

1546
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:25.739
I just, I just, this is a person, I just couldn't be less

1547
01:05:25.739 --> 01:05:27.119
interested in all of this.

1548
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:33.360
I, you know, like, like, take a look at Deadlock and what Deadlock

1549
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:37.019
did, you know, and the Janeway makes the ultimate sacrifice.

1550
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:39.480
She blows up the bridge and has a fabulous scene where the VD

1551
01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:42.420
install me and she goes, welcome to the bridge just as it blows

1552
01:05:42.420 --> 01:05:42.659
up.

1553
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:46.559
And is this done just a 1000000 times cooler than this?

1554
01:05:46.619 --> 01:05:51.960
Yeah. you know, and less languid. and less protracted. and I'm

1555
01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:53.460
sounding like an old grub, aren't I?

1556
01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:56.760
Well, I mean, I think that we want this. this is the last that we

1557
01:05:56.760 --> 01:06:01.739
get of this crew and even though they've been, you know, good at

1558
01:06:01.739 --> 01:06:05.400
times and not quite so good at other times, you know, like I'm

1559
01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:06.840
you're sorry to see them go.

1560
01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:09.900
And I think we get to spend some time with them.

1561
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:12.480
They get to do some Borg shit, which is kind of exciting.

1562
01:06:12.539 --> 01:06:18.719
We get to relitigate the main moral dilemma of caretaker.

1563
01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:20.039
And then we get to go home.

1564
01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:23.519
You know, like, it's not...

1565
01:06:23.579 --> 01:06:27.059
Are you saying, Joe, you, you know, you should know at this point

1566
01:06:27.059 --> 01:06:29.820
in Voyages Run, you're never going to see anything new.

1567
01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:32.400
Just enjoy what they're giving you. essentially.

1568
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:35.820
I think that this is the best we could probably have hoped for.

1569
01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:39.480
And I guess there are things that I think they could have done to

1570
01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:42.420
improve it, but I don't think it's a terrible choice.

1571
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:44.940
You know, I think these are the sort of things that we want to

1572
01:06:44.940 --> 01:06:45.239
do.

1573
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:49.260
They are sort of done a bit boringly, you know, that's kind of

1574
01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:49.559
true.

1575
01:06:49.619 --> 01:06:57.119
Oh, yeah, see, she is kind of uh, getting a bit flirty, isn't it?

1576
01:06:57.179 --> 01:06:58.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

1577
01:06:58.139 --> 01:06:59.880
Why wouldn't you?

1578
01:06:59.940 --> 01:07:00.780
It's Jerry Roy.

1579
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:01.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1580
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:03.300
No, they're both gorgeous women.

1581
01:07:03.420 --> 01:07:06.119
Do you know what the original idea was for this?

1582
01:07:06.179 --> 01:07:11.579
Originally, um, when Voyager emerges, um, there was supposed to be

1583
01:07:11.579 --> 01:07:16.559
an entire Bulwark army that was heading towards Earth, and then

1584
01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:19.440
Voyager was going to have the secret to, you know, starting a

1585
01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:23.820
cascade reaction, and the whole army was going to blow up in a

1586
01:07:23.820 --> 01:07:25.139
spectacular, not just one ship.

1587
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:28.320
And then Voyager was going to ride through to Earth.

1588
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:29.639
And that was how it was going to win.

1589
01:07:29.699 --> 01:07:32.940
All right, well, you know, that's kind of what happens. did a

1590
01:07:32.940 --> 01:07:33.780
cheaper version of that.

1591
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:37.679
I do think that's I think that's a pretty great visual, isn't it?

1592
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:39.119
With the Borg spear.

1593
01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:39.960
Far out.

1594
01:07:40.019 --> 01:07:45.239
I can't even talk with the with the Borg sphere blowing up and and

1595
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:47.639
Voyager kind of heading out of the explosion.

1596
01:07:47.699 --> 01:07:48.780
I think that is pretty awesome.

1597
01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:52.559
You know, my you know what my problem is, don't you?

1598
01:07:52.619 --> 01:07:55.679
It's TS9, right?

1599
01:07:55.739 --> 01:08:00.840
Which was so good, uh, longtime arcs dealing with consequences and

1600
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:04.920
leaning into the interesting parts of the characters and the

1601
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:05.820
situation.

1602
01:08:05.820 --> 01:08:08.340
Well, this show really doesn't do none of that.

1603
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:12.480
But there's so much it could do and there's so much it could do

1604
01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:13.920
with them going back to work.

1605
01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:19.560
And that last shot of Voyager, heading towards the bloody earth.

1606
01:08:19.619 --> 01:08:22.680
And I'm like, I just, I want to know everything that comes next.

1607
01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:23.760
Yeah.

1608
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:27.840
You know, and not in a, oh, leave him wanting more sort of way.

1609
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:29.819
In a, you didn't give me anything.

1610
01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:31.979
No, I think it has to be that.

1611
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:34.979
Holy crap, did you want these people to write?

1612
01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:38.640
you want to find out from the people who brought you episodes like

1613
01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:43.560
human era, how everyone ended up living their lives on earth?

1614
01:08:43.619 --> 01:08:46.199
I think it's best left to a start.

1615
01:08:46.260 --> 01:08:49.560
Well, don't buy that because in series 4, when they make contact

1616
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:53.579
with Earth, they do, like the whole half the episode leaves over

1617
01:08:53.579 --> 01:08:53.880
it.

1618
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:56.880
And it's Janeway learning about Mark moving on.

1619
01:08:56.939 --> 01:09:01.319
It's Torres and Chakotay learning about the marquee being gone.

1620
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:02.880
Is that I of the Needle?

1621
01:09:02.939 --> 01:09:03.840
can do it.

1622
01:09:03.899 --> 01:09:07.619
No, it's, it's the 1st one with the Hirogen, where they get the

1623
01:09:07.619 --> 01:09:08.220
Hirogen.

1624
01:09:08.579 --> 01:09:10.199
It's like the concepts.

1625
01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:13.500
So they can so they can make so they can get letters from Earth.

1626
01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:15.239
Or they start learning.

1627
01:09:15.300 --> 01:09:17.760
So it's not that they can't do it.

1628
01:09:17.819 --> 01:09:19.920
It's they choose not to do it.

1629
01:09:19.979 --> 01:09:22.680
And here, you know, like they could have chosen.

1630
01:09:22.859 --> 01:09:25.140
Look, they chose to do this sort of Borg thing and whatever.

1631
01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:28.560
And there is a way of doing it, of making the show about the

1632
01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:33.600
characters while still being a Star Trek episode, while leaning

1633
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:36.720
into the characters more, because there's, like, they haven't been

1634
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:40.680
super successful over the 7 seasons defining the characters in

1635
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:41.819
their relationships.

1636
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:46.260
And that's always been kind of window dressing to this week's

1637
01:09:46.260 --> 01:09:47.100
space problem.

1638
01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:50.939
So maybe they could, we could have had more of the letters from

1639
01:09:50.939 --> 01:09:52.920
home thing and more of the pathfinder stuff.

1640
01:09:52.979 --> 01:09:55.920
We get in Paris, don't we?

1641
01:09:55.979 --> 01:10:01.020
We get Admiral Paris, we do get Barclay earlier on, but they're so

1642
01:10:01.020 --> 01:10:01.619
little.

1643
01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:04.319
Like I said, one of the best ever scenes is when Harry Kim's mum

1644
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:05.939
turns up and starts having to go him.

1645
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.220
She goes, she goes, put Janeway onto me.

1646
01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:09.720
I'll talk to her about your promotion.

1647
01:10:09.779 --> 01:10:11.460
When he was getting fat.

1648
01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:18.180
I think she goes, have you been practising your clarinet, Harry?

1649
01:10:18.539 --> 01:10:20.340
He's like, yeah.

1650
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:21.479
Every other week.

1651
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:23.340
I'm the Riker clone on this show, remember?

1652
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:26.100
I think plays the saxophone later, doesn't he?

1653
01:10:26.220 --> 01:10:30.119
Because the clarinet... a minute ago between 7 and Shakotay, where

1654
01:10:30.119 --> 01:10:32.880
she's like, I'm defining the parameters of our relationship.

1655
01:10:32.939 --> 01:10:36.239
I'm not getting close to you because one of us is going to die.

1656
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:37.079
Oh, good God.

1657
01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:38.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1658
01:10:38.100 --> 01:10:41.939
I mean, it's the same thing, but it's okay for 7 to do that.

1659
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:45.239
It's kind of boring and played for her to do that for her to

1660
01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:49.439
discover that, you know, that you go into a relationship and that

1661
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:52.800
it ends in some way and that's heartbroken for anyone who's still

1662
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:56.159
alive, you know, like that's a thing.

1663
01:10:56.279 --> 01:11:00.239
But it's just Janeway being an older woman kind of going, yes, 2

1664
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:03.239
of my friends have died and one is very sick and you kind of think

1665
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:03.840
Jesus Christ.

1666
01:11:04.739 --> 01:11:06.600
So what?

1667
01:11:06.659 --> 01:11:09.300
You know, like we just live with it.

1668
01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:10.260
The rest of us do.

1669
01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:12.180
They should say, we shouldn't listen to her.

1670
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:15.060
Another version of me turns up every other week.

1671
01:11:18.300 --> 01:11:21.180
I did love the sentiment of here.

1672
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:25.140
There's a couple of bits in this 2nd half where I really liked how

1673
01:11:25.140 --> 01:11:27.899
they were talking about being a family avoyager.

1674
01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:30.359
They say, don't they?

1675
01:11:30.420 --> 01:11:33.180
Bringing up the child on Voyager, would that be such a bad thing?

1676
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:34.140
We've gone a family here.

1677
01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:35.460
We've got a home here.

1678
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:37.560
We've developed a relationship.

1679
01:11:37.619 --> 01:11:38.220
I like that.

1680
01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:40.560
And I do like the bit where Harry says the same thing.

1681
01:11:40.619 --> 01:11:43.680
He gets he gets the big sort of hero speech.

1682
01:11:43.739 --> 01:11:46.680
Which he doesn't surprise me that they gave him to.

1683
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:49.140
But look at that.

1684
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:50.579
Look at the look at that.

1685
01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:55.199
It's the armour going on the on Voyager. looks so good.

1686
01:11:55.260 --> 01:11:58.500
If she don't say much, does she, Alex?

1687
01:11:58.560 --> 01:12:00.000
I didn't have the same name.

1688
01:12:00.060 --> 01:12:01.920
Yeah, she does very sinister.

1689
01:12:01.979 --> 01:12:02.520
Yeah.

1690
01:12:02.579 --> 01:12:04.920
She turned up in a big finish audio, you know.

1691
01:12:04.979 --> 01:12:06.000
She was pretty good.

1692
01:12:06.060 --> 01:12:07.020
Yeah.

1693
01:12:07.079 --> 01:12:10.199
She strode between Star Trek and Doctor Who.

1694
01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:13.199
So a few people, well, in fact, lots of people do.

1695
01:12:14.579 --> 01:12:17.819
Why are they in this sort of gaseous area?

1696
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:22.739
Well, it's an ambular where the where the transwarp thing is.

1697
01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:25.380
I don't know, I don't believe we've been in a nebula before in

1698
01:12:25.380 --> 01:12:26.220
Voyager, you know?

1699
01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:28.500
No, I don't think they've ever had a nebula on the show.

1700
01:12:28.979 --> 01:12:32.460
I wonder if there's coffee in this nebula. surprised, you know

1701
01:12:32.460 --> 01:12:33.899
there wasn't an anomaly in this.

1702
01:12:33.960 --> 01:12:36.060
That was sports kind of normally.

1703
01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:38.039
It's sort of an anomaly, isn't it?

1704
01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:43.739
If you, yeah, Chewbox behind a tactical console again, back with

1705
01:12:43.739 --> 01:12:44.100
the logs.

1706
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:46.979
No, he's reporting on the armour integrity, which is a fresh new

1707
01:12:46.979 --> 01:12:50.699
departure for him instead of the shield. integrity.

1708
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:52.739
He's having a big week.

1709
01:12:54.180 --> 01:12:58.979
But like, do you remember when destroying a Borg cube was like the

1710
01:12:58.979 --> 01:12:59.760
toughest thing ever?

1711
01:12:59.819 --> 01:13:02.699
Yeah, we have to use future things.

1712
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:04.560
We have to use fewer days.

1713
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:06.840
We can just blow them up 10 a penny, you know?

1714
01:13:07.380 --> 01:13:09.899
But how are they scary now?

1715
01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:12.659
Well, they don't have to be scary because we've never seen them

1716
01:13:12.659 --> 01:13:13.079
again.

1717
01:13:13.140 --> 01:13:14.340
This is it for the Borg.

1718
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:15.479
Say goodbye to the board.

1719
01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:16.739
We will be seeing them again.

1720
01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:18.420
We're going to see them in Enterprise in a couple of seasons.

1721
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:20.039
Yeah, but yes.

1722
01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:22.260
And then we're going to see them again in Picard.

1723
01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:23.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1724
01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:25.680
But that'll be a long time away, and they do want to join the

1725
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:28.739
Federation, so they're not really that scary by that point.

1726
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:29.819
Doesn't this look good?

1727
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:33.479
Do you remember those scenes in Picard series one on the ball

1728
01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:33.899
ship?

1729
01:13:34.140 --> 01:13:36.779
Oh, they went on forever, didn't they?

1730
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:37.500
They did.

1731
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:41.819
They did have some pacing issues in that 1st series and maybe in

1732
01:13:41.819 --> 01:13:44.760
the 2nd series as well, to be honest, but I still really like

1733
01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:44.939
them.

1734
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:48.239
I kind of wish this, like, you know, this ball city, you know, it's

1735
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:50.399
like, you know, they go along and there's the ball having a party

1736
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:53.100
you know, and this is where they all live and this is where they

1737
01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:53.579
have some fun.

1738
01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:54.779
No, it's not.

1739
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:55.319
It's there.

1740
01:13:55.380 --> 01:13:57.180
It's their Transwarp pub.

1741
01:13:57.239 --> 01:13:58.560
We must have had this before.

1742
01:13:58.619 --> 01:14:00.359
So this is...

1743
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:01.380
This is how they...

1744
01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:03.180
It's a bit like the Iconian gateway, yeah.

1745
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:06.539
This is how they send their cubes off into all the where is the

1746
01:14:06.539 --> 01:14:08.399
space.

1747
01:14:08.460 --> 01:14:10.199
I kind of...

1748
01:14:10.260 --> 01:14:10.800
Yeah.

1749
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:12.479
You know, you're starving.

1750
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:13.920
Just a pretty face.

1751
01:14:17.039 --> 01:14:19.079
So this is a big deal.

1752
01:14:19.140 --> 01:14:21.720
This is how they travel all around the galaxy, because remember

1753
01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:28.619
that, you know, when Picard met them originally, they were in on

1754
01:14:28.619 --> 01:14:32.159
the other side of the galaxy and Q through.

1755
01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:33.420
Were they in the Delta Quadrant?

1756
01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:35.039
Well, no, I think...

1757
01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:37.020
No, I don't think we had quadrants back then.

1758
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:41.699
In fact, I think quadrants get established in the price, which is

1759
01:14:41.699 --> 01:14:45.899
series three, I think, that with the two.

1760
01:14:46.619 --> 01:14:48.000
And I think the price is the one.

1761
01:14:48.060 --> 01:14:53.520
Is it the one where the 2 Ferengi end up in the Delta Quadrant?

1762
01:14:53.579 --> 01:14:54.479
It's a Troy episode.

1763
01:14:54.539 --> 01:14:56.159
I think it's a Troy episode, isn't it?

1764
01:14:56.220 --> 01:14:57.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1765
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:59.819
Yeah, I think so, because there's a beta Zoid negotiator.

1766
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:02.460
But I think the 2 Ferengi end up in the on the other side of the

1767
01:15:02.460 --> 01:15:06.899
wormhole and then they appear here in series of which.

1768
01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:08.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1769
01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:09.119
No, series three.

1770
01:15:09.180 --> 01:15:10.199
It's called False Prophet.

1771
01:15:10.260 --> 01:15:10.979
False profits.

1772
01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:11.939
Okay, it's as late as that.

1773
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:15.239
They managed to pull the wall over this entire civilisation and

1774
01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:16.439
turn themselves into gobs.

1775
01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:20.159
So this is really good. isn't it?

1776
01:15:20.220 --> 01:15:25.319
So they now know that they're going to use the transwarp conduit

1777
01:15:25.319 --> 01:15:27.180
and that's how they're getting home.

1778
01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:29.760
And they immediately say, well, that's no good.

1779
01:15:29.819 --> 01:15:31.319
We should be destroying the conduit.

1780
01:15:31.380 --> 01:15:32.699
We can't use it, you know.

1781
01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:34.140
And it was the same with the caretaker.

1782
01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:37.199
I think it's really good And this is where the concept...

1783
01:15:37.260 --> 01:15:38.699
It's been a couple of moments, doesn't they?

1784
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:42.000
Where there's been the potential to get home at a cost.

1785
01:15:42.060 --> 01:15:43.380
Yeah.

1786
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:44.159
Yeah.

1787
01:15:44.220 --> 01:15:47.039
Okay, so maybe I didn't actually see this.

1788
01:15:47.100 --> 01:15:49.380
I probably phoned out of the episode at this point.

1789
01:15:49.979 --> 01:15:53.939
But yeah, there is a stark parallel with Caretaker here.

1790
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:55.680
Yeah, we know, it's the same decision.

1791
01:15:55.739 --> 01:15:56.880
It's literally the same decision.

1792
01:15:56.939 --> 01:16:02.100
Do we use the caretaker to get home and allow the Cazon to

1793
01:16:02.100 --> 01:16:03.539
massacre all your kampa?

1794
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:06.659
Um, and here, it's a bit less.

1795
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:09.239
Well, we don't even know who the account private, it doesn't

1796
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:09.420
matter.

1797
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:12.779
In both cases, though, because the account was so boring because

1798
01:16:12.779 --> 01:16:15.000
we're not really seeing any consequences to the ball.

1799
01:16:15.060 --> 01:16:16.380
But we do keep going.

1800
01:16:16.439 --> 01:16:17.460
We've seen the ball.

1801
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.060
It's all sort of a theoretical moral here, isn't it, rather than

1802
01:16:21.060 --> 01:16:21.779
a...

1803
01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:24.539
But I mean, we've seen the Battle of Wolf 359 a couple of times

1804
01:16:24.539 --> 01:16:27.479
and we've seen 1st contact and stuff like that.

1805
01:16:27.539 --> 01:16:31.140
Like, we know the Borg can invade us and this would stop them.

1806
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:35.579
But when they were chilling, you can just destroy them with a

1807
01:16:35.579 --> 01:16:37.619
quick bolt these days. right.

1808
01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:40.500
Sorry, I'm being really mean.

1809
01:16:41.220 --> 01:16:43.260
See, here we go.

1810
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:44.100
Here they are.

1811
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:48.840
Mulgrew acting and she's criticising.

1812
01:16:48.899 --> 01:16:54.539
She's calling it a mistake. you can't make that a mistake This was

1813
01:16:54.539 --> 01:17:00.180
great where Mulgrew one, our Mulgrew is on a high ground and then

1814
01:17:00.180 --> 01:17:03.119
the older mole grew...

1815
01:17:03.180 --> 01:17:05.579
Stops her in her tracks, doesn't she?

1816
01:17:05.699 --> 01:17:07.140
Yeah.

1817
01:17:07.260 --> 01:17:08.039
Yeah.

1818
01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:14.039
Oh, I'm glad we were we were spared the wedding of 7 and Chakotay

1819
01:17:14.100 --> 01:17:15.659
how they should have started it.

1820
01:17:18.420 --> 01:17:20.880
No, you know that.

1821
01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:21.479
Dreadful life.

1822
01:17:21.539 --> 01:17:24.899
There'd be awful like Borg style vows, wouldn't there?

1823
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:29.100
It could be it could be like the wedding of Troy and Riker in

1824
01:17:29.100 --> 01:17:34.739
Nemesis with that shitty, shitty speech from Patrick Stewart that

1825
01:17:34.739 --> 01:17:35.220
everyone likes.

1826
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:41.939
I now pair my cortical implant to you or something like that.

1827
01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:43.199
It'll be dreadful, wouldn't it?

1828
01:17:43.979 --> 01:17:46.859
Oh, she's got another one.

1829
01:17:46.859 --> 01:17:47.880
She's got another one.

1830
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:50.640
Go on, sorry.

1831
01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:52.979
Oh, okay, all right. 7 died.

1832
01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:53.699
Okay, then.

1833
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:54.479
How about this one?

1834
01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:56.699
Tuvok has a neurological condition.

1835
01:17:57.420 --> 01:17:59.399
Oh, wait a 2nd.

1836
01:17:59.460 --> 01:18:00.000
Maybe I won't.

1837
01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:02.939
No, no, no, I'm still going to destroy the trats off.

1838
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:06.600
And if you don't, if you don't change the future, this is what

1839
01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:10.140
Robert Duncan, McNeil's going to look like.

1840
01:18:10.140 --> 01:18:11.340
Bobby got bald.

1841
01:18:11.399 --> 01:18:15.960
Oh, he's groaning on the head.

1842
01:18:16.020 --> 01:18:16.800
What's going on?

1843
01:18:18.239 --> 01:18:20.819
Oh, so Tuvok's already suffering.

1844
01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:22.619
Well, that's why he lost.

1845
01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:26.220
That's why ECM could beat him at Calto and like that was clear at

1846
01:18:26.220 --> 01:18:26.520
the time.

1847
01:18:26.579 --> 01:18:27.060
Yeah.

1848
01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:30.239
Had this been another show, they might have ceded this earlier in

1849
01:18:30.239 --> 01:18:30.600
the season.

1850
01:18:30.659 --> 01:18:32.819
No, but I think that's a good time to seed it.

1851
01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:34.079
Like, they do seat it.

1852
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:37.439
Like, and it's interesting that it happens here at the same time

1853
01:18:37.439 --> 01:18:40.380
as we're learning the consequences of it.

1854
01:18:40.439 --> 01:18:43.380
And I think it's ingenious too.

1855
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:47.760
Like, how can they possibly not be a cure.

1856
01:18:47.819 --> 01:18:51.420
Like they are in contact with Starfleet, there's a cure if it had

1857
01:18:51.420 --> 01:18:52.140
been Vulcan.

1858
01:18:52.199 --> 01:18:57.239
And so her decision now is the decision to allow him to suffer

1859
01:18:57.239 --> 01:18:59.159
from that neurological condition.

1860
01:18:59.220 --> 01:19:00.420
If she doesn't go home now.

1861
01:19:00.539 --> 01:19:03.180
You know, if she blows up the thing.

1862
01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:06.899
And so I think that's more interesting because she can't tell

1863
01:19:06.899 --> 01:19:10.260
seven, but she can tell.

1864
01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:12.779
G-Wog just pulled out the spot quote.

1865
01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:14.340
The needs of the mini.

1866
01:19:14.399 --> 01:19:16.140
Yeah, and look at...

1867
01:19:16.140 --> 01:19:17.279
It looks very cool, isn't he?

1868
01:19:17.340 --> 01:19:17.939
Don't you think?

1869
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:18.960
I think jukebox's great.

1870
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:22.079
I think he's absolutely underused and should have been her

1871
01:19:22.079 --> 01:19:25.560
confidant more like that should have been his wrong.

1872
01:19:25.619 --> 01:19:27.659
Now she's trying to get under 7 skin.

1873
01:19:28.260 --> 01:19:29.399
Get her on side.

1874
01:19:29.460 --> 01:19:31.739
Oh, I tell you what, she's a bit of a cow bag, isn't she?

1875
01:19:32.279 --> 01:19:35.520
But she's wrong and she admits she's wrong.

1876
01:19:35.579 --> 01:19:40.020
And I think there's a good thing that happens too. and we'll get

1877
01:19:40.020 --> 01:19:43.079
there. that's why she chooses to sacrifice herself, doesn't she?

1878
01:19:43.619 --> 01:19:47.340
What they said was, in memory alpha was, they wanted to have their

1879
01:19:47.340 --> 01:19:48.060
cake and eat it.

1880
01:19:48.180 --> 01:19:52.079
So they basically wanted Mulgrew to be able to sacrifice herself

1881
01:19:52.079 --> 01:19:56.220
because they felt as if there should be some kind of cost to them

1882
01:19:56.220 --> 01:19:56.640
getting home.

1883
01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:57.300
Yeah.

1884
01:19:57.300 --> 01:20:01.739
So they bring an extra Janeway in and just...

1885
01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:05.279
It's an alternative Janeway from a timeline that never winds up

1886
01:20:05.279 --> 01:20:07.319
happening, which is that's my issue there.

1887
01:20:07.380 --> 01:20:09.060
Yeah, but it's still a Janeway.

1888
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:11.819
I mean, you know, we see her on screen and all of that sort of

1889
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:12.060
thing.

1890
01:20:12.119 --> 01:20:13.319
It doesn't matter how she gets there.

1891
01:20:13.380 --> 01:20:15.720
She's just a made-up character like all of them.

1892
01:20:15.779 --> 01:20:18.420
So it is, that's okay, I think.

1893
01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:22.680
Well, you know, like I think that the, that the, like Janeway

1894
01:20:22.680 --> 01:20:25.500
killing herself in deadlock is pretty damn awesome and that's only

1895
01:20:25.500 --> 01:20:26.279
one episode.

1896
01:20:26.340 --> 01:20:28.199
That's a great moment.

1897
01:20:28.260 --> 01:20:29.220
A good word.

1898
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:29.640
Yeah.

1899
01:20:29.699 --> 01:20:31.560
I think that episode...

1900
01:20:31.680 --> 01:20:34.199
Because you think that the ship that's...

1901
01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:35.159
Sorry.

1902
01:20:35.220 --> 01:20:39.180
My point is, is in what you leave behind, I felt far more like

1903
01:20:39.180 --> 01:20:43.619
when DeMar was killed storming the Dominion headquarters. and he's

1904
01:20:43.619 --> 01:20:47.579
a secondary character on DS9. than I do with Janeway sacrificing

1905
01:20:47.579 --> 01:20:50.100
herself at the end of this because...

1906
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:50.699
Where is that?

1907
01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:51.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1908
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:54.239
Oh, yeah, here we go.

1909
01:20:54.300 --> 01:20:56.399
This is where we're talking about the decision that she made 7

1910
01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:56.819
years ago.

1911
01:20:57.000 --> 01:20:58.619
Yeah.

1912
01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:01.680
So they are making it explicit now, just in case we didn't pay

1913
01:21:01.680 --> 01:21:03.420
attention before, which clearly I did not.

1914
01:21:03.479 --> 01:21:04.140
I didn't.

1915
01:21:04.260 --> 01:21:07.739
And so this is where they all decide to make that decision, you

1916
01:21:07.739 --> 01:21:09.479
know, and she's saying, I didn't know you.

1917
01:21:09.539 --> 01:21:13.319
You know, I didn't really understand what the decision, you know

1918
01:21:13.319 --> 01:21:14.640
what decision I was making.

1919
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:19.020
I don't think they need to be so clear about this is our home.

1920
01:21:19.140 --> 01:21:20.699
You are my family.

1921
01:21:20.760 --> 01:21:21.659
Like, we get it.

1922
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:22.920
We get it, right?

1923
01:21:22.979 --> 01:21:24.119
It's Star Trek.

1924
01:21:24.180 --> 01:21:27.239
It's always going to tell you rather than show you in this era

1925
01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:27.720
isn't it?

1926
01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:29.760
You know, like it doesn't do subtlety.

1927
01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:34.199
It's one of these fabulous moments where they go, you know, we're

1928
01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:38.039
not going to do this dangerous mission unless everyone agrees.

1929
01:21:38.100 --> 01:21:40.920
And I always want one person to just go wrong.

1930
01:21:40.979 --> 01:21:41.880
Yeah, actually, fuck that.

1931
01:21:41.939 --> 01:21:42.779
Let's just go home.

1932
01:21:43.319 --> 01:21:47.399
We've talked about it before, but the one in the 37th is the worst

1933
01:21:47.399 --> 01:21:47.819
isn't it?

1934
01:21:47.939 --> 01:21:50.819
It's like, you know, all the people that choose to leave Voyager.

1935
01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:52.020
Go to the cargo bay.

1936
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:54.840
She's like, oh, how many people are going to be in there and we're

1937
01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:56.579
like, no, we know it's going to be no one.

1938
01:21:57.720 --> 01:22:01.619
I just want there to be one crewman going, well, this is a bit

1939
01:22:01.619 --> 01:22:02.579
awkward, isn't it?

1940
01:22:02.640 --> 01:22:06.420
I mean, you kind of do that in, you kind of do that in, in

1941
01:22:06.420 --> 01:22:08.699
discovery at the end of series two, don't you?

1942
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:11.520
I mean, you don't have them saying, actually, fuck it, I'm not

1943
01:22:11.520 --> 01:22:12.779
going into the future with this lady.

1944
01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:14.939
I've got this big implant on my head.

1945
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:16.020
I've got a girlfriend.

1946
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:16.979
I'm staying home.

1947
01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:20.819
I mean, they get the, they got the, um, get out clause in

1948
01:22:20.819 --> 01:22:23.460
discovery where Georgia was in it because you can always be the

1949
01:22:23.460 --> 01:22:26.100
dissenting, but the lower decks, you know, they could do it any

1950
01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:26.340
episode.

1951
01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:29.880
There'd be someone there going, are you mad?

1952
01:22:29.939 --> 01:22:31.680
Take it on that fork?

1953
01:22:31.739 --> 01:22:32.699
Transwarp thing?

1954
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:33.899
No way.

1955
01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:35.340
Look how that's shot too.

1956
01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:38.159
That shot's really weird because there was a shot where they were

1957
01:22:38.159 --> 01:22:41.520
all kind of in the corner of the shot having, you know, like we

1958
01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:44.159
were looking at them having that agreement from a long distance

1959
01:22:44.159 --> 01:22:47.279
away and then Janeway comes into shot and we see that that's her

1960
01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:48.119
take on it.

1961
01:22:48.180 --> 01:22:50.880
And so this, she's taken up coffee again.

1962
01:22:50.939 --> 01:22:55.500
She stopped. and she's taken it up again and she's going to take

1963
01:22:55.500 --> 01:22:57.180
up being idealistic again.

1964
01:22:57.239 --> 01:23:01.859
And I think it's, uh, yeah, you know, and again, it's also

1965
01:23:01.859 --> 01:23:02.399
obvious.

1966
01:23:03.180 --> 01:23:07.500
Do you see what I'm saying about, obviously, you do, because I'm

1967
01:23:07.500 --> 01:23:11.340
being quite clear about, like, just seeing the older episodes that

1968
01:23:11.340 --> 01:23:13.319
deal with the same things doing it better.

1969
01:23:13.319 --> 01:23:14.039
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1970
01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:16.260
Because there's a bit coming up in a minute, right?

1971
01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:20.279
Which is pretty cool, which is Janeway falling the ball queen.

1972
01:23:20.340 --> 01:23:21.420
Yeah.

1973
01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:23.220
And she's like, well, I'm not really here.

1974
01:23:23.220 --> 01:23:26.279
So, you know, well, I did that in the Thor.

1975
01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:29.159
And I'll tell you what, it was a better ending when she said to

1976
01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:29.340
me.

1977
01:23:29.340 --> 01:23:32.939
Michael McKean in it, you know, like it's a great episode. scared.

1978
01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:36.600
I know, you know, it was so good.

1979
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:41.579
I took frog this episode, I'm constantly going, oh, yeah, that

1980
01:23:41.579 --> 01:23:42.779
episode was great.

1981
01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:45.539
I mean, Star Trek is...

1982
01:23:45.539 --> 01:23:47.640
Instead of saying this episode is great.

1983
01:23:47.699 --> 01:23:49.859
But I mean, Star Trek does do that.

1984
01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:54.960
Like it does, it has obviously been eating its own tale for some

1985
01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:55.319
time.

1986
01:23:55.380 --> 01:23:58.439
I mean, what's... 90s track especially.

1987
01:23:58.500 --> 01:24:02.640
They got that TNG formula and then there were a lot of offshoots

1988
01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:03.600
of the same kinds of stories.

1989
01:24:03.659 --> 01:24:07.920
Well, I mean, insurrection has bits of who watches the watches and

1990
01:24:07.920 --> 01:24:10.500
it has Sorry, what now?

1991
01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:12.600
Yeah, Star Trek.

1992
01:24:12.600 --> 01:24:14.279
I don't remember that. film at all.

1993
01:24:15.060 --> 01:24:21.779
It's it's just a kind of a mishmash of various other Star Trek, the

1994
01:24:21.779 --> 01:24:24.420
Next Generation episodes, and I mean, this is better than that.

1995
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:28.020
And this is, I mean, I do think the big crime is, let's redo

1996
01:24:28.020 --> 01:24:29.520
timeless, only dumber.

1997
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:33.359
And that's, you know, like, that is kind of what...

1998
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:35.159
You summed it up perfectly in a line now.

1999
01:24:35.220 --> 01:24:35.760
Well done.

2000
01:24:35.819 --> 01:24:39.539
I say, Janeway's love of coffee has been my favourite character

2001
01:24:39.539 --> 01:24:41.399
trait of hers throughout the entire run.

2002
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:43.619
Yeah, well, I love coffee too.

2003
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:45.600
Yeah, it's a thing that people do.

2004
01:24:45.659 --> 01:24:48.300
Yes, coffee and that nebula, Nathan.

2005
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:51.359
Do you remember the necklace?

2006
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.359
like, where's she goes into the missile and says to Nick, give me

2007
01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:54.779
coffee.

2008
01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:57.600
And he's like, sorry, captain.

2009
01:24:57.659 --> 01:25:00.060
She goes, I don't care, you give me coffee.

2010
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:03.539
But look at this.

2011
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:06.899
And then she plays it in this really ambiguous way.

2012
01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:11.100
And like, I think there's sort of warmth there, but she does pull

2013
01:25:11.100 --> 01:25:13.979
a bit of a face at some and...

2014
01:25:13.979 --> 01:25:18.180
Yeah, yeah, this, like I buy that.

2015
01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:22.079
I do think I do think she's characterising both characters well.

2016
01:25:22.140 --> 01:25:23.279
Yeah, yeah.

2017
01:25:23.340 --> 01:25:28.319
I just don't buy how it's all directed and put together.

2018
01:25:28.380 --> 01:25:30.060
It just takes me out of it.

2019
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:34.199
I'm very aware this is constructed and I know you're going to say

2020
01:25:34.199 --> 01:25:34.560
this.

2021
01:25:34.619 --> 01:25:38.520
It's always constructed, Joe. I know, but I can actually buy into

2022
01:25:38.520 --> 01:25:39.060
it normally.

2023
01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

2024
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:42.060
Look at that.

2025
01:25:42.119 --> 01:25:46.979
The artifice of the construction is very apparent. you know, Oh

2026
01:25:46.979 --> 01:25:47.640
there we go.

2027
01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:49.020
Back to 7 inch Kotay.

2028
01:25:49.079 --> 01:25:53.399
But I mean, this is just very much, you know, a show ticking off

2029
01:25:53.399 --> 01:25:55.260
the boxes that it needs to tick off, I think.

2030
01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:59.220
Nathan, are we keeping things professional again today?

2031
01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:00.960
Yeah.

2032
01:26:02.579 --> 01:26:04.199
You know what?

2033
01:26:04.260 --> 01:26:08.699
You saying yuck to Star Trek romance is one of my greatest joys in

2034
01:26:08.699 --> 01:26:09.239
life, honestly.

2035
01:26:11.279 --> 01:26:15.060
And in 90s trek, you're never out of examples, are you?

2036
01:26:16.500 --> 01:26:18.840
Oh, good grief.

2037
01:26:21.899 --> 01:26:25.560
No, I mean, they could have kept this going on for another season

2038
01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:27.239
but it would have been agonising.

2039
01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:27.899
No, no, no.

2040
01:26:27.899 --> 01:26:28.680
Yeah, yeah.

2041
01:26:28.739 --> 01:26:31.199
Like, they make the right decision to end it when it ends, I

2042
01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:31.439
think.

2043
01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:36.119
And I'm glad that they do this because this is kind of standing in

2044
01:26:36.119 --> 01:26:39.479
for character development because they weren't doing any of that

2045
01:26:39.479 --> 01:26:40.560
you know, for the run.

2046
01:26:40.619 --> 01:26:44.159
And it's kind of like it reminds us that these people's lives will

2047
01:26:44.159 --> 01:26:48.779
change when they leave, um, you know, like when they leave.

2048
01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:50.039
Does this end here?

2049
01:26:50.039 --> 01:26:51.180
and that's this is the end of it.

2050
01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:52.619
What?

2051
01:26:52.680 --> 01:26:56.340
Is this literally the end of their almost relationship?

2052
01:26:56.399 --> 01:26:56.880
No, no, no.

2053
01:26:56.939 --> 01:26:57.899
Look, look at, look at them.

2054
01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:00.840
He convinces her that that's ridiculous.

2055
01:27:00.899 --> 01:27:02.819
But they do talk, I think.

2056
01:27:02.880 --> 01:27:07.859
Don't they get to talk about their their future, like what they're

2057
01:27:07.859 --> 01:27:08.399
going to do.

2058
01:27:09.060 --> 01:27:12.239
But then in Picard, is this just all ignored?

2059
01:27:12.300 --> 01:27:13.500
Yeah, yeah.

2060
01:27:13.560 --> 01:27:14.039
Yeah.

2061
01:27:14.100 --> 01:27:17.460
Oh, it's not me. someone not go to, you know, where's Chakotay?

2062
01:27:17.579 --> 01:27:18.119
She goes, who?

2063
01:27:18.180 --> 01:27:19.260
Yeah, I don't know.

2064
01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:20.279
I don't think we even mention it.

2065
01:27:20.640 --> 01:27:22.079
Okay.

2066
01:27:22.140 --> 01:27:24.060
He's probably dead by then.

2067
01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:26.039
Let's hope so.

2068
01:27:26.100 --> 01:27:27.600
Oh, no, he might turn up.

2069
01:27:27.659 --> 01:27:30.720
Don't worry, doesn't he turn up on good grief?

2070
01:27:30.779 --> 01:27:31.260
Prodigy.

2071
01:27:31.319 --> 01:27:32.939
That's Chakotay, isn't it?

2072
01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:34.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2073
01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:35.460
I think he's on his own.

2074
01:27:35.699 --> 01:27:36.840
Chakotay.

2075
01:27:36.899 --> 01:27:37.800
I can't remember.

2076
01:27:37.859 --> 01:27:38.699
I can't remember.

2077
01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:41.579
I still haven't seen the last 2 episodes and I meant to do that.

2078
01:27:41.640 --> 01:27:44.340
I feel really bad about it because I was really enjoying it, but

2079
01:27:44.340 --> 01:27:46.859
it's just another thing that I haven't...

2080
01:27:46.920 --> 01:27:49.560
Lower decks turning up...

2081
01:27:49.619 --> 01:27:50.640
Yep, yep, yep.

2082
01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:52.680
That happened this week.

2083
01:27:52.920 --> 01:27:56.939
Oh my god, so excited. can't wait to see that one.

2084
01:27:57.000 --> 01:27:58.920
Oh, sorry, back to end games.

2085
01:27:58.979 --> 01:27:59.579
Yeah.

2086
01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:08.460
Yeah, this is, this is, uh, uh, kind of cheesy scene, isn't it?

2087
01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:09.840
It's so kind of terrible.

2088
01:28:09.899 --> 01:28:13.560
And they all are, every scene between this pair.

2089
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:17.699
No, but it is the way that the way that they write romance, I

2090
01:28:17.699 --> 01:28:19.500
think is just terrible on this show.

2091
01:28:20.340 --> 01:28:23.100
Back to Torres's pregnancy.

2092
01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:25.859
Oh, that's right, because what they're going to do is have the

2093
01:28:25.859 --> 01:28:28.439
epic and the intimate happening side by side.

2094
01:28:28.500 --> 01:28:31.319
We're taken on the ball and we're having a baby.

2095
01:28:31.380 --> 01:28:34.079
Well, I think it's we arrive high. have the baby.

2096
01:28:34.140 --> 01:28:36.180
Wait, they even do that scene?

2097
01:28:36.180 --> 01:28:37.079
In deadlock, though.

2098
01:28:37.140 --> 01:28:38.220
Oh, wait.

2099
01:28:38.279 --> 01:28:39.659
That's happening in deadlock as well.

2100
01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:44.460
Smack for Wildwood having the baby. really like this.

2101
01:28:45.359 --> 01:28:49.619
You know, that they were talking about there being a pool and

2102
01:28:49.619 --> 01:28:52.800
engineering and people were betting on when the pregnancy would

2103
01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:54.720
like when she would actually give birth.

2104
01:28:54.779 --> 01:28:59.460
And then in that scene, he inadvertently admits to her that he's

2105
01:28:59.460 --> 01:29:05.159
in that pool and he's betting on like 1500 hours today and she

2106
01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:07.619
loses her shit with him, which I think is really great.

2107
01:29:07.680 --> 01:29:08.819
I think that's really good.

2108
01:29:08.880 --> 01:29:12.180
Oh, I think that's the ultimate Tom Paris thing he could do.

2109
01:29:12.239 --> 01:29:16.619
This is actually quite a good scene for those 2 as well.

2110
01:29:16.859 --> 01:29:19.739
It's kind of like, so that's the last time we're going to see them

2111
01:29:19.739 --> 01:29:20.279
together.

2112
01:29:21.659 --> 01:29:25.319
Well, he kisses her and he touches touches her stomach.

2113
01:29:25.380 --> 01:29:25.920
Just the baby.

2114
01:29:25.979 --> 01:29:27.420
Yeah, because the baby's there.

2115
01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:28.680
You know why it's good, don't you?

2116
01:29:28.739 --> 01:29:29.699
Because he's not actually saying anything.

2117
01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:31.199
No, he's not acting too much.

2118
01:29:31.260 --> 01:29:35.039
But it's also that sort of thing where she tells him to go.

2119
01:29:35.100 --> 01:29:37.560
I'll be here with the doctor, the doctor's a good guy.

2120
01:29:37.619 --> 01:29:42.539
You know, like, I've got to be at the ship when we're there for

2121
01:29:42.539 --> 01:29:44.939
the final scene. doing the reaction shots.

2122
01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:49.319
I would like to say that, even though I do criticise the acting of

2123
01:29:49.319 --> 01:29:50.699
some of the Voyager crew.

2124
01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:53.819
I do think there's an awful lot of charisma in this cast, you

2125
01:29:53.819 --> 01:29:54.000
know.

2126
01:29:54.479 --> 01:29:58.199
And I have said to you on previous episodes, I actually think as a

2127
01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:01.800
whole, I prefer this cast to THE.

2128
01:30:01.859 --> 01:30:05.279
Yeah, and I think, you know, they'd had a couple of goes at it by

2129
01:30:05.279 --> 01:30:05.760
this point.

2130
01:30:05.819 --> 01:30:07.140
So I can understand that.

2131
01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:11.819
It's the writing that often lets me down.

2132
01:30:11.880 --> 01:30:12.300
Yeah.

2133
01:30:12.359 --> 01:30:12.840
Oh, yeah.

2134
01:30:12.899 --> 01:30:13.619
No, me too.

2135
01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:15.899
And you know, here we go.

2136
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:19.680
So here's Janeway doing her the Thor trick now.

2137
01:30:19.739 --> 01:30:23.640
So she's she's a virtual older Janeway, taking on the ball queen.

2138
01:30:23.699 --> 01:30:27.359
Yeah, but that's...

2139
01:30:27.359 --> 01:30:28.859
That's not how it ends up, though.

2140
01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:30.960
Like, we don't just stop her.

2141
01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:31.380
Excuse me.

2142
01:30:31.439 --> 01:30:32.579
Spoilers.

2143
01:30:32.640 --> 01:30:33.960
When you say she's not flirting with her.

2144
01:30:34.020 --> 01:30:36.479
She's walking around there, checking her out this very second.

2145
01:30:36.539 --> 01:30:38.039
No, she's looking at a bum.

2146
01:30:38.100 --> 01:30:38.699
Yep, yep.

2147
01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:42.539
Captain Janeway, my God.

2148
01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:44.220
You've got better with age.

2149
01:30:44.279 --> 01:30:45.960
I think she kind of has.

2150
01:30:46.020 --> 01:30:49.319
It is pretty good that she's the only one who doesn't just look

2151
01:30:49.319 --> 01:30:52.260
absurd in those future scenes.

2152
01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:56.279
I do, do you know, I like the lighting in these scenes, you know

2153
01:30:56.279 --> 01:30:58.739
this sort of green lighting.

2154
01:30:58.859 --> 01:31:00.300
Yeah, well, yeah.

2155
01:31:02.279 --> 01:31:05.460
You're the one who always talks about the flat lighting in the 90s

2156
01:31:05.460 --> 01:31:05.699
all right?

2157
01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:07.079
They giving a bit of atmosphere, yeah?

2158
01:31:07.140 --> 01:31:07.800
No, that's true.

2159
01:31:07.859 --> 01:31:10.500
And there's practical lighting and stuff and things moving around

2160
01:31:10.560 --> 01:31:12.779
got the strobe lighting in there as well, which is quite

2161
01:31:12.779 --> 01:31:13.199
effective.

2162
01:31:13.260 --> 01:31:14.760
Yeah, it's like a disco.

2163
01:31:14.819 --> 01:31:17.460
It's like...

2164
01:31:17.460 --> 01:31:19.260
Actually, it is, isn't it?

2165
01:31:19.319 --> 01:31:21.539
Oh, no, that dreadful episode.

2166
01:31:21.600 --> 01:31:22.199
Do you remember?

2167
01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:27.000
I was convinced that was Marina Surtis as the villain in that, you

2168
01:31:27.000 --> 01:31:27.180
know.

2169
01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:28.380
This is really great.

2170
01:31:30.180 --> 01:31:32.279
Okay, what's current now?

2171
01:31:32.399 --> 01:31:32.939
left the playoffs.

2172
01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:35.399
Yeah, so she's threatening her.

2173
01:31:35.460 --> 01:31:43.319
Um, but doesn't, ah, yes, she's trying to convince them, isn't she

2174
01:31:43.319 --> 01:31:44.699
that she's betraying them for their own good.

2175
01:31:44.760 --> 01:31:46.739
I'm betraying them to get them home.

2176
01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:48.659
Yeah, and they don't destroy you.

2177
01:31:48.779 --> 01:31:51.720
No, what's interesting is that we actually don't know at this

2178
01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:52.979
point what what's true.

2179
01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:57.180
I mean, I think that the way that the acting has worked is it's

2180
01:31:57.180 --> 01:32:00.180
definitely saying that Admiral Janeway was telling Captain Janeway

2181
01:32:00.180 --> 01:32:02.760
the truth before leaving, but then she comes here.

2182
01:32:02.819 --> 01:32:06.000
We don't know what the plan is, we're not privy to it.

2183
01:32:06.060 --> 01:32:10.920
And so she's saying the same thing that she was saying to Janeway

2184
01:32:10.920 --> 01:32:12.960
but saying, but my decision is different.

2185
01:32:13.020 --> 01:32:16.319
They have to come home and I know we're not going to be able to

2186
01:32:16.319 --> 01:32:18.119
destroy the transwarp conduit.

2187
01:32:18.180 --> 01:32:23.159
And we think that she's kind of defeated when she's brought on

2188
01:32:23.159 --> 01:32:27.420
board by the queen, but in fact, that was the plan all along.

2189
01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:32.100
And I get that there's ambiguity here, but I think we kind of know

2190
01:32:32.100 --> 01:32:32.880
what's going on.

2191
01:32:32.939 --> 01:32:35.520
No, I think we know, but I do, like I did have for a little minute

2192
01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:37.560
because I couldn't really remember how this ended.

2193
01:32:37.619 --> 01:32:40.979
I thought this is actually a bit cleverer than I was expecting.

2194
01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:44.640
It was a little bit like, you know, the moment in state of flux

2195
01:32:44.640 --> 01:32:48.659
where it turns out Jakotay is not just a big moron who's been

2196
01:32:48.659 --> 01:32:53.520
played by Sesker all along that he actually had a plan and it's

2197
01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:54.180
the same thing here.

2198
01:32:54.239 --> 01:32:55.739
Oh my god.

2199
01:32:55.800 --> 01:32:57.420
Why did you have to bring up Cesca?

2200
01:32:57.720 --> 01:32:59.159
What?

2201
01:32:59.159 --> 01:33:01.739
The whole finale should have been about Sesca.

2202
01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:03.779
Back back from the dead.

2203
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:08.760
We did have worst case scenario at the end of series three.

2204
01:33:09.779 --> 01:33:15.300
Oh, we had shattered in series 7, where he pops back to all... a

2205
01:33:15.300 --> 01:33:18.119
better finale than this personally, but the way he pops back.

2206
01:33:18.180 --> 01:33:19.859
See, Cesco, he goes to caretaker.

2207
01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:22.619
Back to when the ball 1st appeared.

2208
01:33:22.680 --> 01:33:23.279
Incredible.

2209
01:33:23.340 --> 01:33:24.960
So I kind of get what you're saying.

2210
01:33:25.020 --> 01:33:27.779
This episode's been constructed, so there's all those arguments

2211
01:33:27.779 --> 01:33:33.000
between the 2 Janeways. effectively setting up this betrayal in

2212
01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:34.140
inverted commerce.

2213
01:33:34.199 --> 01:33:36.239
Which then...

2214
01:33:36.239 --> 01:33:37.020
That's what is happening now.

2215
01:33:37.079 --> 01:33:40.020
So she's being really beamed on board because she's been detected

2216
01:33:40.020 --> 01:33:42.840
and but that was part of the plan all along.

2217
01:33:43.079 --> 01:33:47.520
So maybe there's a little more thought in this than I'm perhaps

2218
01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:48.600
giving it credit for.

2219
01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:51.479
Like, I don't know what she's fucking brought on board.

2220
01:33:51.539 --> 01:33:54.600
I can't remember, but it's a techno babble thing that destroys the

2221
01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:59.819
entirety of the thing. in about 30 seconds by not doing anything

2222
01:33:59.819 --> 01:34:01.439
really much more than...

2223
01:34:01.500 --> 01:34:02.520
She's from the future, I remember.

2224
01:34:02.579 --> 01:34:03.899
So they may have had developments.

2225
01:34:03.960 --> 01:34:06.060
They may have had, you know, in bringing down the baulk.

2226
01:34:06.119 --> 01:34:06.720
Yep.

2227
01:34:06.720 --> 01:34:06.960
Yep.

2228
01:34:07.020 --> 01:34:09.479
Poison nail polish or something and she just...

2229
01:34:09.479 --> 01:34:10.920
Anti-plastic, I believe it's called.

2230
01:34:10.979 --> 01:34:11.579
Plastic.

2231
01:34:11.640 --> 01:34:12.060
Yeah, yeah.

2232
01:34:12.119 --> 01:34:13.260
Just whatever.

2233
01:34:14.340 --> 01:34:16.439
Well, I do love...

2234
01:34:16.500 --> 01:34:22.020
I mean, it's, um, the theatre of the moment where our arms start

2235
01:34:22.020 --> 01:34:24.359
snapping off and things like this. is great.

2236
01:34:24.420 --> 01:34:25.920
It's crazy.

2237
01:34:29.159 --> 01:34:30.960
Oh, wow.

2238
01:34:31.020 --> 01:34:34.680
And I love how Margaret looked. got all of her face mangled up by

2239
01:34:34.680 --> 01:34:36.539
Borg technology and nanaboxes.

2240
01:34:36.600 --> 01:34:38.399
Except that we've seen that.

2241
01:34:38.399 --> 01:34:39.060
Sparks flying.

2242
01:34:40.439 --> 01:34:43.920
Didn't we say that before at the end of series 6 or whatever?

2243
01:34:43.979 --> 01:34:45.119
Unimatrix zero.

2244
01:34:45.180 --> 01:34:46.859
Don't they let themselves get a simulated?

2245
01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:47.819
I watched that this week.

2246
01:34:47.880 --> 01:34:49.380
Honestly, it was terrible.

2247
01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:50.340
Yeah.

2248
01:34:50.399 --> 01:34:52.920
Must makeup's actually a little more subtle.

2249
01:34:53.520 --> 01:34:56.640
Yeah, you've infected us.

2250
01:34:56.699 --> 01:34:58.800
She's grabbing the set.

2251
01:34:58.859 --> 01:35:01.560
She's literally grabbing that set like her life's worth it, isn't

2252
01:35:01.560 --> 01:35:01.739
it?

2253
01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:06.420
Oh, I'm going to make this moment count.

2254
01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:09.539
Voyager dashing down a tunnel there.

2255
01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:13.199
So, yeah, yeah, but I think that's really great and I'm glad that

2256
01:35:13.199 --> 01:35:14.100
that's not ended.

2257
01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:16.260
Like we're still being pursued and stuff.

2258
01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:19.920
We're still gonna try and keep the excitement going until we reach

2259
01:35:19.920 --> 01:35:22.560
the very end and, you know, like whatever.

2260
01:35:22.619 --> 01:35:23.100
Why not?

2261
01:35:23.159 --> 01:35:26.819
So, so I think the kind of the conclusion that we're coming to

2262
01:35:26.819 --> 01:35:30.840
here is the most we could have hoped for was a big bang of an

2263
01:35:30.840 --> 01:35:31.140
ending.

2264
01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:33.539
Yeah, like a big set piece.

2265
01:35:33.600 --> 01:35:35.640
I don't think it quite gets there.

2266
01:35:35.699 --> 01:35:39.000
You know, like Voyager has been better than this, as you say.

2267
01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:44.399
It's it's a mid-range Voyager episode. you know, which is a bit of

2268
01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:44.880
a shame.

2269
01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:47.939
Should you be going out on a mid-range episode?

2270
01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:49.020
No, no.

2271
01:35:49.079 --> 01:35:51.180
I mean, there have been better episodes than this.

2272
01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:53.520
The last episode we watched State of Flux, I think, was better

2273
01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:53.939
than this.

2274
01:35:54.000 --> 01:35:56.579
You know, this is okay.

2275
01:35:56.640 --> 01:35:59.880
But, oh, look, oh, ow.

2276
01:36:02.939 --> 01:36:05.520
She just tore it off like that guy.

2277
01:36:05.579 --> 01:36:06.899
That canyon ear guy.

2278
01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:07.439
I love that.

2279
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:11.579
We got to the end of Voyager on an episode that was okay.

2280
01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:12.840
We're okay with that.

2281
01:36:12.899 --> 01:36:13.680
Yeah.

2282
01:36:13.739 --> 01:36:15.359
Well, so what are you going to do?

2283
01:36:15.420 --> 01:36:20.699
You know, like, you know, in some ways, all good things is fun, but

2284
01:36:20.699 --> 01:36:22.859
I didn't think it's a great episode.

2285
01:36:22.979 --> 01:36:25.260
You know, it's about a space. massive problem.

2286
01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:27.479
You got very angry in the 2nd 3rd of that one.

2287
01:36:27.539 --> 01:36:31.500
I'll tell you Yeah, it's just because it's a being space anomaly.

2288
01:36:31.560 --> 01:36:34.680
Naturally, we're just gonna do a stupid space anomaly and go out

2289
01:36:34.680 --> 01:36:34.979
on that.

2290
01:36:35.039 --> 01:36:37.319
And that doesn't matter because we know that we're going to see

2291
01:36:37.319 --> 01:36:40.319
them all in 18 months or something in the cinema, like, you know.

2292
01:36:40.380 --> 01:36:43.439
Well, reserve judgement on what you leave behind until we watch

2293
01:36:43.439 --> 01:36:43.619
it.

2294
01:36:43.680 --> 01:36:47.159
Yeah, yeah, but I will cry, probably at least once.

2295
01:36:47.220 --> 01:36:50.460
What we'll say is that you cut and win and have a very strange

2296
01:36:50.460 --> 01:36:51.659
engine.

2297
01:36:51.720 --> 01:36:52.500
No, that's stupid.

2298
01:36:52.619 --> 01:36:54.239
But, um, but yeah.

2299
01:36:54.359 --> 01:36:59.699
Yeah, you know, I would I would definitely say what you need

2300
01:36:59.699 --> 01:37:01.500
behind has a greater sense of occasion.

2301
01:37:01.560 --> 01:37:02.699
Yeah, yeah.

2302
01:37:02.760 --> 01:37:04.020
But it's wrapping more up.

2303
01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:05.340
There's more going on.

2304
01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:07.739
Really, what we're doing is what, you know, we've got to get

2305
01:37:07.739 --> 01:37:07.920
home.

2306
01:37:07.979 --> 01:37:08.579
We'll...

2307
01:37:08.579 --> 01:37:09.539
I needed 10 episodes.

2308
01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:12.239
They needed 10 episodes to get those characters wrapped up.

2309
01:37:12.300 --> 01:37:13.380
No, they didn't.

2310
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:14.939
I mean there's nothing to them.

2311
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:15.420
Oh, I see.

2312
01:37:15.539 --> 01:37:15.720
Right.

2313
01:37:15.779 --> 01:37:18.359
Oh, yeah, I think you're saying Voyager made the wrong decision by

2314
01:37:18.359 --> 01:37:21.659
not spending 10 episodes on where the characters would end up.

2315
01:37:21.720 --> 01:37:23.039
What were they going to do?

2316
01:37:23.100 --> 01:37:24.300
Wrap up the ball, kids.

2317
01:37:24.359 --> 01:37:26.460
Wrap up Naomi Wildman in an episode.

2318
01:37:26.579 --> 01:37:29.340
I mean, you've got the best secondary cast.

2319
01:37:29.340 --> 01:37:31.199
Admiral Paris could have a whole episode.

2320
01:37:31.260 --> 01:37:31.979
There he is.

2321
01:37:32.039 --> 01:37:32.939
Yep, yeah.

2322
01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:37.199
It's very strange though, you know, because as they come through

2323
01:37:37.319 --> 01:37:40.920
You think, as soon as Admiral Paris appears on the screen, if they

2324
01:37:40.920 --> 01:37:43.140
were in tune with their characters, then the shot would go

2325
01:37:43.140 --> 01:37:44.039
straight to Paris.

2326
01:37:44.159 --> 01:37:45.479
Yeah, yeah.

2327
01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:48.000
And they wait until the end of the scene and then we just see him

2328
01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:49.079
looking away a bit awkwardly.

2329
01:37:49.140 --> 01:37:51.539
And I'm like, yeah, you're kind of not focussing on the

2330
01:37:51.539 --> 01:37:51.899
characters.

2331
01:37:51.960 --> 01:37:53.159
You're more focussed on the plot.

2332
01:37:53.220 --> 01:37:54.960
Well, on this set piece, I think.

2333
01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:59.159
And, you know, the set piece does look pretty great.

2334
01:37:59.279 --> 01:38:02.939
And we've changed time and brought his arm back to the future.

2335
01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:06.060
I think we went into this game.

2336
01:38:06.119 --> 01:38:11.880
Well, let's do some, let's do a last stab, lots of weird shit.

2337
01:38:11.939 --> 01:38:12.479
Yeah, yeah.

2338
01:38:12.539 --> 01:38:15.060
And then someone else went, well, should we put some character

2339
01:38:15.060 --> 01:38:15.600
stuff in?

2340
01:38:15.659 --> 01:38:16.619
Well, yeah, you can have that as well.

2341
01:38:16.680 --> 01:38:18.300
Yeah, have a, but...

2342
01:38:18.300 --> 01:38:23.039
Mostly we'll buy hello to the cubes.

2343
01:38:23.100 --> 01:38:23.819
Yeah, yeah.

2344
01:38:23.880 --> 01:38:27.239
Oh, look, they're Federation Armada is there.

2345
01:38:27.300 --> 01:38:28.319
Oh, God.

2346
01:38:28.319 --> 01:38:29.579
They've got a little better.

2347
01:38:29.640 --> 01:38:32.159
They look a little less cartoony than they did in Disney's time.

2348
01:38:32.220 --> 01:38:33.779
Galaxy class ship there.

2349
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:37.739
Two years that, you know, I do love it when the galaxy class ships

2350
01:38:37.739 --> 01:38:38.579
are in the battles, you know?

2351
01:38:39.420 --> 01:38:41.520
They blow up pretty well.

2352
01:38:41.579 --> 01:38:42.239
Excellent.

2353
01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:44.340
Well, the enterprise blew up.

2354
01:38:44.399 --> 01:38:45.659
If you think about the whole sphere.

2355
01:38:45.720 --> 01:38:48.420
I don't really think much of a sphere, you know, it's not quite as

2356
01:38:48.420 --> 01:38:49.079
intimidating.

2357
01:38:49.140 --> 01:38:50.520
No, I like it.

2358
01:38:50.579 --> 01:38:55.199
But remember, remember, um, oh my god.

2359
01:38:55.260 --> 01:39:00.420
Is it the Corba might maneuver where they're attacked by various

2360
01:39:00.479 --> 01:39:02.100
geometric solids?

2361
01:39:02.220 --> 01:39:05.279
Like it's a sphere and a cube and stuff.

2362
01:39:05.340 --> 01:39:08.579
And there's the bulk sphere comes from 1st contact, obviously.

2363
01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:10.859
Um, yeah.

2364
01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:14.039
Yeah, well, they're little scout ships, the spheres.

2365
01:39:14.100 --> 01:39:17.340
They're hard to stack, you know, hard cargo.

2366
01:39:17.399 --> 01:39:19.560
There's no stakes to blow in this up, is that?

2367
01:39:19.619 --> 01:39:21.420
They're blowing these things up. doesn't mean anything.

2368
01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:23.039
Well, we got future tech.

2369
01:39:23.100 --> 01:39:25.500
We're allowed just for this episode blow the shit out of them.

2370
01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:27.539
Yeah, it looks cool.

2371
01:39:27.539 --> 01:39:28.979
Well, there you go.

2372
01:39:29.039 --> 01:39:29.880
What do you want?

2373
01:39:29.939 --> 01:39:30.539
What do you want?

2374
01:39:30.600 --> 01:39:31.619
You want it look boring?

2375
01:39:31.680 --> 01:39:32.880
It's already boring.

2376
01:39:32.939 --> 01:39:35.520
You may as well have interesting things to look at.

2377
01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:37.079
That's so great.

2378
01:39:37.199 --> 01:39:39.180
I have to say that this scene.

2379
01:39:39.300 --> 01:39:41.100
You've just summed up Voyager there.

2380
01:39:41.159 --> 01:39:43.739
It might be boring, got a leash, you've got interesting things to

2381
01:39:43.739 --> 01:39:44.039
look at.

2382
01:39:44.100 --> 01:39:47.460
Well, that's very rare in Nighty Streak to have interesting things

2383
01:39:47.460 --> 01:39:47.880
to look at.

2384
01:39:47.939 --> 01:39:50.699
I just can't get over how stunned they are.

2385
01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:53.100
So they're so stunned.

2386
01:39:53.159 --> 01:39:56.699
Like they can and like Janeway gets that next time we'll call

2387
01:39:56.699 --> 01:40:02.159
ahead line, which is, you know, nothing, but she doesn't deliver

2388
01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:04.920
it in a sort of normal kind of Janeway way.

2389
01:40:04.979 --> 01:40:07.380
She can still just barely believe where they are.

2390
01:40:07.979 --> 01:40:10.619
She's got says under a breath, isn't she?

2391
01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:11.100
We did it.

2392
01:40:11.159 --> 01:40:14.520
I thought like, yeah, it's a really good line reading.

2393
01:40:14.579 --> 01:40:15.000
Yeah.

2394
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:19.140
Can I just ask, I'm more stunned at Barclay's hair?

2395
01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:19.920
Is he wearing a rock?

2396
01:40:20.039 --> 01:40:20.939
I don't know.

2397
01:40:21.000 --> 01:40:23.159
Oh, look, the baby.

2398
01:40:23.220 --> 01:40:24.420
Holy crap.

2399
01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:26.340
That poor baby.

2400
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:31.079
It looks so much prettier than it did when it was CGI hanging in

2401
01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:32.220
the air in the holiday.

2402
01:40:32.279 --> 01:40:36.180
Oh, you're all holding back tears, like, the 1st childhood, the

2403
01:40:36.180 --> 01:40:36.779
2nd childhood.

2404
01:40:36.779 --> 01:40:37.739
That's actually nice.

2405
01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:41.939
Yeah, 2nd child born on fire, yeah.

2406
01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:43.979
Plus that baby that never went anywhere.

2407
01:40:44.039 --> 01:40:44.760
What happened to the baby?

2408
01:40:44.819 --> 01:40:46.199
I don't know.

2409
01:40:46.260 --> 01:40:46.680
Do you know what?

2410
01:40:46.739 --> 01:40:49.079
One of my favourite joys is watching the background players, you

2411
01:40:49.079 --> 01:40:51.659
know, there was a fellow at the back of the set there, smiling

2412
01:40:51.659 --> 01:40:52.859
straight to camera.

2413
01:40:52.920 --> 01:40:54.239
He was so happy that baby was born.

2414
01:40:54.300 --> 01:40:55.199
I don't know who it was.

2415
01:40:55.560 --> 01:40:58.079
He obviously knows Paris pretty well.

2416
01:40:58.140 --> 01:40:59.340
What's our last line?

2417
01:40:59.460 --> 01:41:00.300
Take course for home.

2418
01:41:00.300 --> 01:41:02.220
That's not a bad lie.

2419
01:41:02.819 --> 01:41:06.060
And then this very boring final shot.

2420
01:41:06.180 --> 01:41:08.819
Yeah, it annoys me so much.

2421
01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:09.840
So boring.

2422
01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:11.159
All I want.

2423
01:41:11.279 --> 01:41:13.680
I know you're going to say it. they never could have done it

2424
01:41:13.680 --> 01:41:14.159
justice.

2425
01:41:14.220 --> 01:41:18.779
All I want is is to deal with the fallout of what could have

2426
01:41:18.779 --> 01:41:19.079
happened.

2427
01:41:19.140 --> 01:41:22.619
Like you've got ex-marquee members there.

2428
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:23.399
Terrorists.

2429
01:41:23.460 --> 01:41:26.460
You've got a Borg member of the crew.

2430
01:41:26.520 --> 01:41:28.859
Like, I know, but there's potential.

2431
01:41:28.920 --> 01:41:30.479
And this is the thing.

2432
01:41:30.539 --> 01:41:33.659
There's always this untapped potential. boring, though.

2433
01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:34.859
It would have been so boring.

2434
01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:36.779
We would have been going, where are the aliens?

2435
01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:38.699
Where are the space anomalies?

2436
01:41:38.760 --> 01:41:42.180
Where's, you know, I think they're right to leave it for Kurtzman

2437
01:41:42.180 --> 01:41:44.220
to do a sequel series later.

2438
01:41:44.460 --> 01:41:49.199
Like, you know, in another 5 years, it'll be Star Trek Voyager

2439
01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:52.560
again, and they'll all be fucking old, so we won't need to spend

2440
01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:57.239
quite as much money on latex, and it will be more kind of fun and

2441
01:41:57.239 --> 01:42:00.479
interesting than this production team could have done.

2442
01:42:00.539 --> 01:42:03.720
That it would have been boring because he's right as weren't up to

2443
01:42:03.720 --> 01:42:04.439
the top.

2444
01:42:04.500 --> 01:42:05.460
But it could.

2445
01:42:05.460 --> 01:42:07.439
It could have been great.

2446
01:42:07.500 --> 01:42:08.279
Yeah.

2447
01:42:08.279 --> 01:42:11.340
Like, that's what you could say about a lot of Voyager.

2448
01:42:11.399 --> 01:42:12.840
It could be fantastic.

2449
01:42:12.899 --> 01:42:16.979
And what it was ultimately was passable television.

2450
01:42:17.039 --> 01:42:18.180
Yeah.

2451
01:42:18.239 --> 01:42:22.079
Yeah, well, you know, but sometimes it was very good possible.

2452
01:42:22.140 --> 01:42:23.220
Occasionally brilliant.

2453
01:42:23.340 --> 01:42:24.600
Occasionally brilliant.

2454
01:42:24.659 --> 01:42:25.439
Often.

2455
01:42:25.439 --> 01:42:27.300
Dreadful.

2456
01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:32.039
And more often than not possible.

2457
01:42:32.100 --> 01:42:32.579
Yeah.

2458
01:42:33.119 --> 01:42:34.859
Star Trek.

2459
01:42:34.920 --> 01:42:36.060
Do you know what I mean?

2460
01:42:36.119 --> 01:42:37.920
It's not really prestige TV.

2461
01:42:37.979 --> 01:42:41.819
Often it's really terrible, but, um, you know, like I thought that

2462
01:42:41.819 --> 01:42:44.819
that was okay that did the job that was required of it.

2463
01:42:44.939 --> 01:42:48.239
It's a shame that they couldn't go out on more of a high, on more

2464
01:42:48.239 --> 01:42:52.979
of a good episode, on a, you know, dark frontier or a real life.

2465
01:42:53.039 --> 01:42:57.479
But I think that they basically did the job that they were there

2466
01:42:57.479 --> 01:43:00.359
to do and that's probably what we should have expected.

2467
01:43:00.600 --> 01:43:02.819
I think you're mad.

2468
01:43:03.420 --> 01:43:09.720
It's indulgent, unambitious, and I actually found it a bit boring

2469
01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.619
as well.

2470
01:43:10.920 --> 01:43:13.979
Not how I would have seen out this show.

2471
01:43:14.039 --> 01:43:15.779
It was better than I remembered.

2472
01:43:15.899 --> 01:43:18.479
And it was worse than I remember.

2473
01:43:24.840 --> 01:43:29.100
So we've reached the end of a very long episode of Untitled Star

2474
01:43:29.100 --> 01:43:34.619
Trek Project, and it is our custom at this point to choose an

2475
01:43:34.619 --> 01:43:39.899
episode for us to watch next time, and it's my turn on the

2476
01:43:39.899 --> 01:43:41.159
randomiser.

2477
01:43:41.220 --> 01:43:42.000
Yeah.

2478
01:43:42.119 --> 01:43:43.979
I feel like we haven't done this for ages.

2479
01:43:44.039 --> 01:43:45.060
It's been a couple of weeks.

2480
01:43:45.119 --> 01:43:45.899
That's a bit.

2481
01:43:45.960 --> 01:43:46.739
Yeah, it has been a bit.

2482
01:43:46.800 --> 01:43:49.680
I've not got excited about watching my next Star Trek episode

2483
01:43:49.680 --> 01:43:51.720
because I've been watching Endgame for the last 2 weeks.

2484
01:43:54.479 --> 01:43:57.960
So how are you choosing to devise this this week?

2485
01:43:58.020 --> 01:43:59.399
Okay, well, don't get too excited.

2486
01:43:59.460 --> 01:44:02.760
So I've been doing a little bit of work on the website and it's

2487
01:44:02.760 --> 01:44:06.479
come to my attention that one of 90s trek has a disproportionately

2488
01:44:06.479 --> 01:44:09.840
low number of episodes that we have watched.

2489
01:44:09.899 --> 01:44:16.560
And so I know, I'm afraid that we are going next week to watch an

2490
01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:17.579
episode of Enterprise.

2491
01:44:17.640 --> 01:44:19.439
Fair enough.

2492
01:44:19.439 --> 01:44:23.819
From endgame to enterprise. something good at some point.

2493
01:44:23.880 --> 01:44:24.600
All right.

2494
01:44:24.600 --> 01:44:25.680
The only way is up.

2495
01:44:25.979 --> 01:44:28.020
I don't know about that.

2496
01:44:28.079 --> 01:44:29.880
Okay, all right.

2497
01:44:29.939 --> 01:44:33.239
So I have my finger poised on the button and I'm going to press

2498
01:44:33.239 --> 01:44:33.539
it.

2499
01:44:33.659 --> 01:44:37.319
Okay, this is season four, episode 12.

2500
01:44:38.640 --> 01:44:43.319
Babel one. have no idea what that's about.

2501
01:44:43.380 --> 01:44:49.319
So, uh, my encyclopaedic knowledge of Star Trek enterprise and my

2502
01:44:49.319 --> 01:44:52.560
ability to edit out the 5 minutes it just took me to look that up

2503
01:44:52.560 --> 01:44:58.859
on memory alpha and enables me to say that it's Babel one is

2504
01:44:58.859 --> 01:45:01.920
obviously a reference to Journey to Babel from the original series

2505
01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:04.199
and it is...

2506
01:45:04.260 --> 01:45:04.920
Yep.

2507
01:45:04.979 --> 01:45:06.060
Yeah, that'd be something.

2508
01:45:06.119 --> 01:45:07.979
Anyway, it's not on enterprise.

2509
01:45:08.039 --> 01:45:09.420
It is...

2510
01:45:09.420 --> 01:45:11.640
I think it's quite telling, Nathan, you know, that you and I

2511
01:45:11.640 --> 01:45:14.819
neither of us new, well, the episode of Enterprise or probably any

2512
01:45:14.819 --> 01:45:15.479
of these will be.

2513
01:45:15.539 --> 01:45:18.539
No, well, I don't, I mean, I haven't watched all of Enterprise, and

2514
01:45:18.539 --> 01:45:21.420
I've certainly watched, I think maybe none of series four.

2515
01:45:21.539 --> 01:45:24.539
Now, our rule is just to reiterate.

2516
01:45:24.600 --> 01:45:28.920
If we get a two-parter, like one episode of a two-parter, we watch

2517
01:45:28.920 --> 01:45:32.460
both, like we did for the most recent Deep Space 9 episode.

2518
01:45:32.520 --> 01:45:36.239
If it's one of a trilogy, we don't watch all 3 because that would

2519
01:45:36.239 --> 01:45:37.560
just be too long.

2520
01:45:37.619 --> 01:45:40.319
But I think I'm going to press the button on this.

2521
01:45:40.380 --> 01:45:44.220
This is called the Romulan interference arc and I just don't

2522
01:45:44.220 --> 01:45:44.579
care.

2523
01:45:44.699 --> 01:45:49.979
The unfortunate thing about season 4 is there's about 5 trilogies

2524
01:45:49.979 --> 01:45:50.460
in there.

2525
01:45:50.520 --> 01:45:50.819
Yeah.

2526
01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:54.600
But I do want us to do 4 at some point because it's an interesting

2527
01:45:54.600 --> 01:45:55.020
year.

2528
01:45:55.079 --> 01:45:57.119
Yeah, yeah, I'd like to do that too.

2529
01:45:57.180 --> 01:45:59.159
All right, let's try another one.

2530
01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:01.920
Acquisition.

2531
01:46:01.979 --> 01:46:03.960
Series one, episode 19.

2532
01:46:04.140 --> 01:46:08.159
Oh, God, it's the Ferengi episode. thought it might be.

2533
01:46:08.220 --> 01:46:10.739
It's really awful.

2534
01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:15.119
How did they do the Ferengi when Picard makes 1st contact with the

2535
01:46:15.119 --> 01:46:16.439
Ferengi in the last outpost.

2536
01:46:16.500 --> 01:46:17.579
I don't know.

2537
01:46:17.640 --> 01:46:21.180
How do they do the Borg when Picard 1st encounters the Borg?

2538
01:46:21.840 --> 01:46:24.300
They want to have their cake and eat it as usual.

2539
01:46:24.359 --> 01:46:24.840
Yeah.

2540
01:46:24.899 --> 01:46:26.460
Let's not come up with anything new.

2541
01:46:26.579 --> 01:46:27.060
Roll it again.

2542
01:46:27.119 --> 01:46:27.479
All right.

2543
01:46:27.779 --> 01:46:31.199
Series one, episode 6, Terra Nova.

2544
01:46:31.260 --> 01:46:38.220
I believe that might be the one episode that's about the character

2545
01:46:38.220 --> 01:46:41.399
whose name I can never remember because there's no episodes about

2546
01:46:41.399 --> 01:46:41.640
him.

2547
01:46:41.699 --> 01:46:43.140
Is that his name?

2548
01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:43.800
Meriweather?

2549
01:46:43.859 --> 01:46:44.399
Mayweather.

2550
01:46:44.460 --> 01:46:46.560
I believe one of that episode.

2551
01:46:46.619 --> 01:46:47.579
Oh, okay.

2552
01:46:47.640 --> 01:46:51.239
Terra Nova is Latin for New Earth, obviously.

2553
01:46:51.659 --> 01:46:56.039
I mean, I can tell you now that Jama gave it 2 stars out of four.

2554
01:46:56.100 --> 01:46:57.779
That's about all I can tell you about it.

2555
01:46:57.840 --> 01:46:59.100
Yeah, I don't know.

2556
01:46:59.220 --> 01:47:01.319
Nathan, I think it sounds really boring.

2557
01:47:01.380 --> 01:47:01.979
Can you try again?

2558
01:47:02.100 --> 01:47:03.779
Yeah, yeah.

2559
01:47:03.779 --> 01:47:06.300
I want to try and get a really good episode of Enterprise.

2560
01:47:06.359 --> 01:47:07.739
I realise the odds are against us.

2561
01:47:07.800 --> 01:47:08.699
All right.

2562
01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:09.539
I'm gonna try it again.

2563
01:47:09.659 --> 01:47:12.720
We can do this all night.

2564
01:47:12.779 --> 01:47:13.380
This will be the one.

2565
01:47:13.439 --> 01:47:14.220
Doesn't have to be.

2566
01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:19.619
Series three, episode 17 hatchery.

2567
01:47:20.340 --> 01:47:22.920
You did this one last time.

2568
01:47:22.979 --> 01:47:26.520
This is the one where Archer gets infected by the eggs.

2569
01:47:26.579 --> 01:47:28.560
He turns into the mother of this alien.

2570
01:47:28.619 --> 01:47:31.560
It's probably the worst episode of series three.

2571
01:47:31.619 --> 01:47:32.220
Okay.

2572
01:47:32.279 --> 01:47:34.140
Well, you just press that button one more time, please.

2573
01:47:34.439 --> 01:47:38.579
Series two, episode 5, a night in Sick Bay.

2574
01:47:38.699 --> 01:47:40.619
Oh, let's do it.

2575
01:47:40.680 --> 01:47:43.560
Jama gives this one star out of four.

2576
01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:44.880
But he hates fun.

2577
01:47:44.939 --> 01:47:46.859
It's important to remember that he hates fun.

2578
01:47:46.920 --> 01:47:47.340
That's true.

2579
01:47:47.460 --> 01:47:49.079
Do you know what the premise of this is?

2580
01:47:49.319 --> 01:47:53.340
Is Porthos sick and he spends a night in Sick Bay?

2581
01:47:53.399 --> 01:47:54.300
Yes.

2582
01:47:54.359 --> 01:47:54.840
Yeah.

2583
01:47:54.899 --> 01:47:57.899
I think I have a vague memory, not of having seen it, but of

2584
01:47:57.899 --> 01:47:58.859
having heard of the premise.

2585
01:48:00.060 --> 01:48:03.960
I remember it was agonisingly terrible.

2586
01:48:05.819 --> 01:48:07.739
Does he get better?

2587
01:48:07.739 --> 01:48:10.560
Because I'm not watching it if he's dead by the end of it.

2588
01:48:10.560 --> 01:48:12.300
Yeah, he makes it through the whole room.

2589
01:48:12.420 --> 01:48:13.020
Okay, all right.

2590
01:48:13.079 --> 01:48:13.619
He's fine.

2591
01:48:13.680 --> 01:48:14.100
He's fine.

2592
01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:14.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2593
01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:19.739
It's all this sort of comedy featuring Captain Archer and flocks

2594
01:48:19.739 --> 01:48:20.279
and the dog.

2595
01:48:20.460 --> 01:48:25.140
Oh, you know, well, I think it's written by Brannan Braga and Rick

2596
01:48:25.140 --> 01:48:25.680
Burnham.

2597
01:48:25.739 --> 01:48:30.060
Well, it's hard to get away from as written by Brannan Braga and

2598
01:48:30.060 --> 01:48:33.239
Rick Berman, frankly, if we're going to do Enterprise.

2599
01:48:33.300 --> 01:48:34.739
And...

2600
01:48:34.800 --> 01:48:40.979
And can I just say that Billingsley is the MVP of that entire cast

2601
01:48:40.979 --> 01:48:44.220
and the best one of comedy?

2602
01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:47.340
So I'm I'm cautiously optimistic.

2603
01:48:48.600 --> 01:48:50.460
You're brave.

2604
01:49:00.659 --> 01:49:04.560
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

2605
01:49:04.560 --> 01:49:05.760
and Nathan Bottomley.

2606
01:49:05.819 --> 01:49:08.939
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

2607
01:49:08.939 --> 01:49:11.460
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

2608
01:49:11.520 --> 01:49:15.300
Our podcast artwork is by Caleb Cisrin, and the theme was composed

2609
01:49:15.300 --> 01:49:16.439
by Cameron Lamb.

2610
01:49:16.500 --> 01:49:20.279
This episode was recorded on the 3rd of October 2022 and released

2611
01:49:20.279 --> 01:49:21.600
on the 7th of October.

2612
01:49:21.659 --> 01:49:25.920
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise, a night in Sick

2613
01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:26.460
Bay.

2614
01:49:44.520 --> 01:49:48.000
What do you think, I reckon I can do an out for that?

2615
01:49:48.060 --> 01:49:49.979
Okay, I'm so sorry.

2616
01:49:50.039 --> 01:49:51.239
I was so mean...

2617
01:49:51.300 --> 01:49:51.720
No, no, no.

2618
01:49:51.779 --> 01:49:52.140
That was good.

2619
01:49:52.199 --> 01:49:53.939
That was good. exactly good.

2620
01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:55.920
No, no, I agree with you.

2621
01:49:55.979 --> 01:49:58.260
I think it's kind of... nice things.

2622
01:49:58.319 --> 01:49:59.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2623
01:49:59.340 --> 01:50:02.399
But I don't think it's quite as terrible as everyone thinks, but

2624
01:50:02.399 --> 01:50:03.300
it is pretty shared.

2625
01:50:04.260 --> 01:50:08.939
I'm surprised that there was an attempt to do anything, you know.

2626
01:50:09.239 --> 01:50:10.680
Okay.

2627
01:50:10.739 --> 01:50:12.060
I'm going to pull up.

2628
01:50:12.119 --> 01:50:13.859
Oh, do you know what I wanted to say?

2629
01:50:13.920 --> 01:50:20.220
God damn it, I completely forgot, but, um, It's like the um, the 2

2630
01:50:20.220 --> 01:50:21.539
sort of climactic moments.

2631
01:50:22.079 --> 01:50:30.000
In Endgame and what you leave behind, where the plots climax, and

2632
01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:34.260
there it's all kind of bangs and whistles, but it means nothing.

2633
01:50:34.319 --> 01:50:37.020
It's that bit between Janeway and the Ball Queen and it's all

2634
01:50:37.020 --> 01:50:38.399
tricks and effects.

2635
01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:45.119
And in DS9, it's the bit where Odo and the female shapeshifter are

2636
01:50:45.119 --> 01:50:48.899
together again, they merge and technically have like hours long

2637
01:50:48.899 --> 01:50:51.239
conversation, but it's 2 seconds.

2638
01:50:51.359 --> 01:50:54.779
So it's a nice little science fiction can see, come apart and she

2639
01:50:54.779 --> 01:50:57.539
goes, oh, well, we're going to stand down now.

2640
01:50:57.539 --> 01:50:59.760
He's coming back to the link.

2641
01:50:59.819 --> 01:51:02.579
But it means something because they've set up that relationship

2642
01:51:02.579 --> 01:51:08.520
and they've said, the Odo coming home would mean more to them than

2643
01:51:08.520 --> 01:51:11.340
the entire alpha quadrant. then they prove it.

2644
01:51:11.399 --> 01:51:12.000
Yeah.

2645
01:51:12.060 --> 01:51:14.760
And it comes at a real cost. like a proper cost.

2646
01:51:14.819 --> 01:51:17.100
So it's no bangs, it's no whistles.

2647
01:51:17.159 --> 01:51:19.619
It's an intimate moment between 2 characters.

2648
01:51:19.619 --> 01:51:23.939
That also does have giant things blowing up and shit, doesn't it?

2649
01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:24.960
finale?

2650
01:51:25.079 --> 01:51:25.859
Fabulous.

2651
01:51:25.920 --> 01:51:26.100
Yeah.

2652
01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:27.300
Oh, yeah.

2653
01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:27.779
Yeah, yeah.

2654
01:51:27.840 --> 01:51:29.579
Well that's how it ends.

2655
01:51:29.640 --> 01:51:31.739
I like that. do like that a lot.