WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:50:01

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we are doing a monumental episode, I think, this evening, which is the finale of 7 years of top tier Star Trek from Star Trek Voyager.

3
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How are you feeling going in?

4
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Don't even start with me, all right?

5
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There should be a monumental episode.

6
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This should be the culmination of 7 years of Star Trek Voyager.

7
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Can I say something just straight from the off, please?

8
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Yeah.

9
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This is not on.

10
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Okay?

11
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This is in no way the finale of a television series.

12
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This is a rehash.

13
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It's not even a rehash of Voyager episodes.

14
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This is a rehash of a ton of next generation episodes, which I know you're going to say, but I just spent 7 years doing anyway, so it is fitting.

15
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We've been doing 2 characters meeting since Times Squared in season 2 of TNG.

16
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What's that one on the 2nd time squared?

17
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All right, 2nd chances. everyone remembers that one or Data met himself quite a few times.

18
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We've been doing other depictions of the future since future imperfect in tea.

19
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We've been doing engagements with the Borg since Q-Hoo in series 2 of TNG.

20
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I mean, there's just no part of this that is original exciting innovative in any way.

21
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I am not pleased.

22
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I was hoping to go back and watch this and see, you know, fabulous depths, kisses to the past, wonderful things happening.

23
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I know you're kinder about this and me.

24
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But this is not on.

25
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Well, I think I just went in with lower expectations than you and That's not an argument.

26
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Well, look, I mean, they decided very early on that this was not going to be a show that was serialised it wasn't going to tell a continuous story about these people.

27
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It was just going to do Star Trek and solve space problems every week.

28
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And sometimes they did that very well and sometimes they did it sort of fairly badly.

29
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So when it comes to sort of culmination of 7 years, how do we do a finale?

30
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And to be fair, it's the 1st deliberate finale of a Star Trek series ever because...

31
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Well, so Star Trek, the original series just gets cancelled.

32
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The animated series, I don't think, ends in any sort of very definite way.

33
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Star Trek.

34
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It's like 6 episodes in series 2 or something and then just stops.

35
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That's right.

36
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And then Star Trek, the Next Generation, they all turn up at work the following week and start recording Star Trek generations.

37
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And so it is a summary of, you know, Star Trek.

38
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And it is successful and not successful in all sorts of ways, mostly based upon the kind of nostalgia you feel for the characters more than anything else.

39
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So this is how do we end this?

40
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And they have to end it coming back to Earth.

41
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And so what do they do?

42
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Well, Deep Space...

43
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You just kept over DS9?

44
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Yeah, because Deep Space 9 is a series set in the Star Trek universe.

45
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It's not a Star Trek series.

46
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And it decided after a few faltering starts that it was going to tell a sort of fairly continuous story.

47
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And when it came time for it to wrap up series 7, they just had more material than they could even conceivably fit in there.

48
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You know, like they have a big 10 episode arc that leads up to a sort of impressive finale except for what Marco Lemo and Louise Fletcher. have to do.

49
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But this is the 1st time that we have to end. we have to get back to earth and what do we do?

50
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And I think that what this chooses to do is more or less the right thing.

51
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So it hints at their life on earth in the future, but it doesn't really show us it, but it gives us a possible future, and basically that's all we're going to get, is possible futures.

52
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We won't actually see their future.

53
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And it gives Janeway a chance to examine the decision that she made that stranded them in the Delta Quadrant in the 1st place and get her to play it out again and make the right decision.

54
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And so, you know, like, I don't know.

55
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It's not great, but I don't think it's an atrocity.

56
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Oh, I thought it was very dull, very dull indeed.

57
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We will talk about that.

58
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That hints of a possible future.

59
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That doesn't cut it with me.

60
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I'm sorry, like that isn't what happens.

61
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The people that die in that future do not die at the end of this.

62
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So basically none of that is going to happen.

63
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It's going to be completely different.

64
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We do gesture toward the future with a budding relationship and with the birth of a baby.

65
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So we know that those characters are going on.

66
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We talk.

67
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Harry talks a little bit about seeing his mother and how much he wants to do that.

68
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So I think it would have been nice if we'd had more of that sort of stuff, but they do at least hint towards it.

69
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But the characters are too thin to sustain anything very interesting.

70
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Exactly.

71
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May I say that both of those things, the budding relationship and the birth of the baby, are sitcom at their most tedious?

72
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Well, it's because the characters aren't great.

73
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It's because the actors aren't great in those 2 plots as well.

74
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Yeah, Roxanne Dawson and Jerry Ryan are, but the 2 Roberts, unfortunately, are letting them side down a little bit.

75
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Yeah, yeah.

76
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So basically what you're saying is this is the best we could have hoped for.

77
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Maybe, maybe it is.

78
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I'm dabbing this with...

79
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That's dabbing the series with...

80
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Well, yeah, but I mean, if it just aims to be a sort of diverting way to spend 45 minutes watching space things every week, you know, mission accomplished.

81
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And we were just lucky that often it strove to be more than that, less often, say, than Deep Space 9 did, and perhaps slightly more often than Enterprise.

82
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Who knows?

83
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Can I say, though, like, I watched this or at least 2 thirds of this with my other half, right?

84
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Who's not a Star Trek fan in any way, shape or form, right?

85
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So now I start thinking, well, maybe it's me because he couldn't see the ending.

86
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And then he went, oh, I really want to see the ending of that Voyager episode.

87
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I'm like, oh, were you enjoying that?

88
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So maybe maybe this is just working on levels that isn't for me.

89
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Like, I guess in terms of action adventure, it's very pretty.

90
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There's some great effects.

91
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If you're not accustomed to the series or the franchise behind this, I suppose some of this would be quite exciting and full of interesting ideas.

92
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But we have been doing this a long time, haven't we?

93
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Time travel, alternative futures, the Borg.

94
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Like the Borg at this point, I think there are some interesting visuals and I like that the Borg Queen comes along and decides to flirt with Janeway exactly the same way she flirts with data in 1st contact.

95
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Oh, not sure.

96
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That's fun.

97
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Well, actually, I've got a bit quote about that, you know, because Alice Creek says, how do I do this?

98
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This is not Brent Spiner, and this is Kate Mulgrew.

99
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And she went, oh, just go for it.

100
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She's a dirty bitch, you know?

101
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The Borg would be with us for 13 years at this and Voyager did a tremendous job when they 1st introduced them like that, they really...

102
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Scorpion part one, 2 is really good.

103
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Unity, though, where they 1st came into series 3 is such a really strong episode as well.

104
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But then they started, they obviously they brought in 7 of 9 and then they lent into it just a little bit too much.

105
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Then they got a bit desperate and started bringing in the all kitty winks and things like this.

106
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And then they did Unimatrix 0 where they, you know, said, oh, well, there's this rebellion ball group that are in the hive mine, and you're like, oh, what is going on now?

107
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bring this to an end, please, you know?

108
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Well, they do the combination.

109
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Yeah.

110
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Okay.

111
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Yeah, but what is what is the climax of this great Borg storyline?

112
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all blow up.

113
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Yeah.

114
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But, I mean, in a way, it's not really a story about the Borg.

115
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It is a story about the decision that Janeway made to strand them.

116
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And we've forgotten that.

117
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We've long since forgotten that, but you remember in state of flux, in series one, which is the most recent voyage we watched, it was controversial.

118
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She's condemned. right.

119
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What's really interesting, they do tend to forget about it.

120
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And then remembering it every now and again.

121
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Do you remember at night at the beginning of series five?

122
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Ah, yeah, yeah.

123
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Where she's in her quarters for the 1st half of the episode in the dark going, oh, God, I stranded that everyone here.

124
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Like, she hasn't cared about it for years.

125
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All of a sudden, it's really weighing on her mind.

126
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So I do remember it sort of every now and then.

127
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And I mean, that's part of the problem, isn't it?

128
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That's part of the problem, is that it's not really a story. you know, of a group of desperate people trying to get home.

129
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It's really just a sort of venue for Star Trek episodes to happen in and that never becomes interesting.

130
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And so when it comes to them returning home.

131
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In a way, it's hard to care.

132
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You know, because it's essentially the same thing as the series ending and the series was always going to end at this point, you know.

133
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One of these days, you and I will do a commentary on caretaker and the potential that was there.

134
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And we've talked about this before, the potential that was there for this series to be, you know, not Battlestar Galactica gritty, but to tell, you know, a genuinely interesting story about people stuck out in a region of space cut off from resources, et cetera, et cetera, was there.

135
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Well, this isn't, this isn't the Battlestar Galactica finale, is it?

136
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No.

137
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No, no.

138
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People hated that, but I thought it was tremendous.

139
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But it was wonderful.

140
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Do you remember the bit where the ship came in and that's when Rosalind dies.

141
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Sorry, spoiler.

142
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That broke my heart that same.

143
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So good.

144
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So brilliant.

145
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Yeah.

146
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Nathan, before we head into the episode, would you indulge me once again?

147
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What did people say?

148
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With a few exciting sound bites from the Voyager crew on their own finale.

149
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Well, as you can imagine, Robert Beltran was not impressed.

150
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The 2nd worst, Robert, what did he have to say?

151
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He says they took it out on us by saying, this show's no good.

152
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Let's get it over with as quickly as possible, so we can fix it for the next one.

153
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What in 7 years?

154
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Get it over with as quickly as possible.

155
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He says, um, that's what we're going out with and claimed that the episode make him feel vindicated about his belief that the writers were idiots, so it was unfortunate that the fans were going to have to sit through it.

156
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I mean, I think I feel like he was thinking about me there, you know, he was thinking about me.

157
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I'm honest.

158
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Maybe he's just the 2nd best, Robert.

159
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Let's see what Kate Mulgrew has to say.

160
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I think in the end it was just about as excellent as it could have been under those extraordinary circumstances.

161
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That's very, very diplomatic.

162
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Okay, Garrett Wang says, I think the 1st hour of the finale was fantastic, very exciting, well written, good pacing.

163
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Everything was great about the 1st hour, but the 2nd hour, it just seemed like it tied up all the loose ends very quickly.

164
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So the 2nd half of the finale I was not happy about, and I especially didn't like the fact that we ended up in the series Earth's Orbit.

165
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We didn't even step foot on earth.

166
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Yeah.

167
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I think that's a valid criticism.

168
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Garrett Wang.

169
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It would have been very expensive for them to set foot on earth, but for Christ's sake, it's your finale, and that would have been good.

170
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You know, like the people who say, we should have come home midway through season 7 and then endured 13 episodes of whatever the Voyager writers thought they were capable of making happen on earth after they'd all left the crew.

171
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Like there was never any chance that that would be a going concern.

172
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So they have to end arriving home.

173
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And I guess having a final shot of a computer generated.

174
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Earth is cheaper than landing them all in San Francisco.

175
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That would have been better though.

176
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It was real, I tell you, it was real.

177
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Good on you, Garrett, you're right.

178
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It's funny you should say that, you know, because Roxanne Dawson says, my only criticism, if I have one, is that I wish we had started to deal with the ending a little bit earlier, instead of just in that last 2 hour episode.

179
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Yeah, or the last 5 minutes of the 2 hours.

180
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I'm starting to feel like the 2 should have been in the royal room.

181
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Yeah, they might have done a better job on this show.

182
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Okay, well, Picardo says, I really like the finale.

183
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Kate did a superb job talking to herself.

184
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Ha ha.

185
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I thought Kate was absolutely seamless.

186
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Yeah, that's all he really says something, right?

187
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Tim Rush says, I feel it's time to wrap up the show.

188
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He said 7 years of standing at the tactical stroke security station occasionally saying lines about the shield levels and that's really all that's been asked of him.

189
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It's a great waste.

190
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And Jerry Ryan says that she found the romance between 7 of 9 and Chakotay frustrating, saying, I don't think it was a bad idea, just the way it came out of left field.

191
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I think Robert Beltran and I had a very hard time with that.

192
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Wow.

193
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Boy, did you?

194
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I wasn't sold at all, were you?

195
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Well, I actually thought that it gave Jerry the chance to do some something different as 7 to do a slightly different performance.

196
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And I found her as charming as hell, that smile, like when she smiled.

197
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No, no, but I don't care.

198
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I was looking at Jerry.

199
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I didn't even realise that Robert was in the room.

200
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So director Alan Croecca recalls, there was a big push for me to finish the scenes quickly so they could start tearing down the set.

201
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Imagine trying to rehearse a scene and miss the sounds of deconstruction, watching the walls of your home being carried off stage, as you're still trying to get the actors to say their lives.

202
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Wow.

203
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So it was literally them out. them in.

204
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That's so bad.

205
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And here's the most condemning.

206
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Are you ready for this?

207
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The most condemning quote comes from Branham Bragger himself, who has input in this story, I believe.

208
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I don't remember the finale well enough.

209
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I think I have a story credit on it.

210
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So you'd think I would remember it.

211
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I don't think the Borg was super impactful here.

212
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I think 7 of 9 should have bit in the dust.

213
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I think there should have been a real sacrifice for this crew getting home, a real blood sacrifice.

214
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I think then.

215
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You have a finale.

216
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Yeah.

217
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Yeah.

218
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I mean, there is a blood sacrifice, but it's one that doesn't actually cost them anything.

219
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:05.279
And Rick Berman absolutely adored it.

220
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.720
Of course it did a fabulous job.

221
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.759
But then he is going to say that, isn't he?

222
00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:10.200
Should we watch this thing?

223
00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:11.820
I think we probably should.

224
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:22.019
So I will count us in five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

225
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.500
We...

226
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.379
So fireworks going over San Francisco here.

227
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:41.700
Yeah, I think that this is an image that they had in mind very early on, and it is a pretty good image, but I think that there's a problem.

228
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:44.879
It actually, there's a problem with it, and I'll get to that later.

229
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:46.259
I do think it's great visuals.

230
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:47.220
I mean, that's just amazing.

231
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:47.820
Look at it.

232
00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:49.379
I'm not sure that.

233
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:51.360
I'm not sure if I'll buy the fireworks.

234
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.039
Don't buy the crowd.

235
00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:54.840
Like, I absolutely don't buy the crowd.

236
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:56.700
They're all just sort of crowded, you know.

237
00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:03.720
And the most exciting thing you could do is have the shuttle going past behind them, you know, like that's how they're showing the scope of this thing.

238
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:15.659
In fact, Brannan Bragger had an idea for an episode earlier in the show's run that started with this image of Voyager going over and the whole thing was going to be a massive com and he remembered it for the finale.

239
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:16.740
Yeah.

240
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:17.580
And so this...

241
00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:18.179
Here we have.

242
00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:21.059
Kate Mulgrew in old age makeup.

243
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:21.720
Yeah.

244
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:22.559
Yeah.

245
00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:35.879
And so here's the problem with this beginning scene is that everyone just looks incredibly shit with the possible exception of Kate Mulgrew, with the exception of Kate Mulgrew, I would say that, yeah.

246
00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:36.360
Yeah.

247
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:41.220
They don't go too heavy on her makeup, but Jesus Christ, everyone else looks so stupid.

248
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:49.740
And so this 1st half of the thing, we are alternating between the future and the present, like our show person.

249
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:54.120
The whole 1st act is in the fake future, isn't it?

250
00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:55.860
Yeah, but the alternative future.

251
00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:03.600
Yeah, we start and we go in the alternative future for a long time and then we just alternate between them and we know that they're going to meet.

252
00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:08.579
And so the meeting is the cliffhanger to episode one if they're showing it in syndication.

253
00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:11.759
You know, when we watched all good things.

254
00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:15.599
Yeah, and we were popping into the future in the vineyard with old Picard.

255
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.420
Was that an alternative future or was that the future that was to come?

256
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:25.859
Well, no, that's an alternative future because they even say that at the end, they even say, not even an original fucking finale then, is it?

257
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:37.680
No, well, remember, remember that Deanna has died in that alternative future and that Riker and Worf no longer talk to one another and so they determine that they're not going to do that and having that conversation.

258
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:39.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

259
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:44.940
They have that conversation and then Deanna comes into the into the poker table because no one's told her about it.

260
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.099
They've tactfully discussed it behind her back.

261
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.559
And so that's the same thing that's happening there.

262
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:50.880
You know, 7's dead.

263
00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:57.539
Do you think they've spent more time with Mulgrew's makeup simply because she's going to be in the bulk of this episode in that makeup?

264
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:58.259
Maybe.

265
00:17:58.259 --> 00:17:59.579
And yeah, well, that's right.

266
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:05.640
She's in episode 2 in the makeup too, but I think they probably have toned it down a little bit because she's a good actor.

267
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:06.779
She can act older.

268
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:10.619
She's older than most of the rest of the cast anyway, probably slightly.

269
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:11.519
I don't know, actually.

270
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:12.720
I'm just saying that, huh?

271
00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:17.220
Can I say one thing that I don't think you're going to like?

272
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.680
And this is, I promise you, this will be the sort of the end of me truly bitching and I'll try and find nice things to say after this.

273
00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.140
I think Kate Mulgrew struggles in this.

274
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.880
Yeah, I didn't see that because you had told me beforehand and I did look for it.

275
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.400
Holy crap, like, look at this.

276
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:35.279
Garrett's makeup and hair are so bad.

277
00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:40.380
That's bad, but it's not as bad as No, because he's younger.

278
00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:41.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

279
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.759
On Paris, it looks like he's got some terrible disease.

280
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:45.900
It was mutated in his face.

281
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.000
What's happened to his nose?

282
00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:51.839
Like, they've put all this thing, like his nose has got thinner. as he's got older?

283
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:52.920
Is that a thing that happens?

284
00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:54.779
I don't think people's noses get thinner.

285
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:55.680
What's going on?

286
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:58.920
No, he's done a bit of cosmetic surgery, that's all.

287
00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:01.380
He wants to look a bit better. trimmer in his old age.

288
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.059
He's such a beautiful young man.

289
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.140
I do like to know what?

290
00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:05.759
I do like Janeway's hair.

291
00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:06.420
Yeah, I do too.

292
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:07.799
A fabulous sort of coiffure.

293
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:09.900
Well, that's healthy, are they?

294
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.339
Kate Mulgrew.

295
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.900
She could pull off any look, you know?

296
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.700
No, and I don't think they've gone very heavy on the makeup either.

297
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.799
So we're hearing about someone's funeral, but whose is a, we don't know.

298
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:25.079
I think it's seven, isn't it?

299
00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:26.640
Well, yeah, but we don't know at this point.

300
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:30.359
Oh, no, she goes to Chakotay is great, so maybe it's Chakotay.

301
00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:30.779
Yeah.

302
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:31.740
Oh here we go.

303
00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:33.660
This is the doctor and his wife.

304
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.720
And this is, oh my god.

305
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:47.940
I would say this ageing makeup looked really bad, if I didn't know what the worst Robert looks like now, because he's, you bitch.

306
00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:50.940
No, he's a very handsome man.

307
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.519
We cannot condemn people for getting old, all right?

308
00:19:56.579 --> 00:20:00.839
No, no, no, no, no, look, I'm older than him.

309
00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:05.460
So, like, isn't it glorious that the doctor's got this hot blonde on his head?

310
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:06.539
I know, it's terrific.

311
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:14.880
And he's decided after 7 years to call himself Joe. Joe, the most low effort name imaginable is the joke, apparently.

312
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:16.380
I beg your pardon?

313
00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:19.680
Well, I had a great imagination.

314
00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:20.519
Thank you very much.

315
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:21.599
So funny.

316
00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:23.099
It's such a great.

317
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:24.660
That is a funny joke.

318
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.640
That's my favourite joke of the episode.

319
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.119
It's over now and we've still got an hour and 25 minutes to go.

320
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:36.359
Now, look, it's not so shocking on B'lana, the old age maker, because I'm still seeing her in makeup, are we?

321
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:38.099
Yeah, but I think it's bad.

322
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.579
Like the lines around her mouth and stuff and not very convincing.

323
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:42.660
Okay.

324
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:48.059
Remember Beverly came across best in the ageing makeup in All Good Things?

325
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:48.779
Yeah.

326
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:50.339
In certain lights.

327
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

328
00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:54.180
And I guess that's what B'lana's dealing with here.

329
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.759
I kind of like this too.

330
00:20:56.819 --> 00:21:09.779
And this is interesting because we get the baby that's going to be born in the final, like final minutes of this episode, we get to see her and she is part of the plan, which I think is pretty great.

331
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.880
And we knew it was...

332
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:21.779
Although again, again, I would like to have seen that done a season earlier and we could deal with some fallout on Voyager and have some terrible, you know, you've got to chase the diapers storylines.

333
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:22.920
Oh, God, no.

334
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.039
Because I just want more soap anomaly and stuff.

335
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:28.799
I want less procedural and more soap.

336
00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:33.420
Oh, he's Dwight looking really bad in his ageing makeup as well.

337
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:37.019
And so, you know, I don't remember in TNG.

338
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:43.740
You know, he did that weird delivery of like, uh, talking a bit, uh, like, where's that company?

339
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:44.700
That's him being old.

340
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:46.200
That's old, Barkley.

341
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:47.759
Okay.

342
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:52.019
Oh my god, look at that dreadful respect shot of communications place.

343
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:53.940
It's really not good, is it?

344
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:54.900
Just shocking.

345
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.900
When you think of those city scapes they did in Picard, you know.

346
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:03.059
Yeah, or what, you know, Strange New Worlds looks like.

347
00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.480
Can I please want to find my statement about Kate Mulgrew, please?

348
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:09.059
Because I don't want to, I don't want to attack Mulgar on necessarily.

349
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:11.099
I think she is one of the MVPs Voyager.

350
00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:13.140
Properly so.

351
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:16.680
I think she struggles when she's acting against herself.

352
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.220
And she says that herself is a tough.

353
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.539
That is not a natural thing to do.

354
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.819
And she was having to do take after take off to take.

355
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:28.380
And I don't think and it happens in deadlock as well when they did it.

356
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:32.339
So even that's not original because they had 2 Janeways in deadlock talking together.

357
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.660
So I think she gives a very nice performance as the old Janeway and I buy her character.

358
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.059
She's always very good as a regular German.

359
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:43.680
You bring the 2 together and it's just all a bit static and a bit wooden and that's what I don't like.

360
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:45.599
And in the finale I don't want that.

361
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.259
I, this scene is so stupid.

362
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:55.200
Plus, oh, look, firstly, let's just say, look at these pretty cadets, they're very pretty.

363
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.240
Did you know that cadet man?

364
00:22:57.299 --> 00:23:01.559
He's part of the Make-A-Wish Foundation, and he won that role on Voyager at the 24.

365
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.359
Who's asking the question?

366
00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:04.019
Yeah.

367
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:04.920
He's beautiful.

368
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:09.420
He had a wish to make, and that was just appear on Star Trek Boy job.

369
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.339
So here he is in the finale. for him.

370
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:19.079
That's awesome But this is one of these stupid scenes that only happens in really crappy television where, you know, like it's a lecture.

371
00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:28.259
We're here for a university lecture, rather than showing us the last 2 minutes of the lecture and then going to questions, she asked her questions 1st because why?

372
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:33.240
I don't know because we wanted to see Barclay introduce her because we needed it.

373
00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:35.400
It explained to us what was going on.

374
00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:43.859
And because we can't afford a university lecture hall, it's all just going to be done in this shitty set, you know, like we need to be told it's a lecture.

375
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:48.599
And so it's a lecture that lasts essentially 3 minutes before she gets called away.

376
00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:49.740
It's so ridiculous.

377
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.180
Can I ask you a question that I think you may have asked me?

378
00:23:55.319 --> 00:24:04.920
Well, so the older Janeway, she wants to head back into the past to change what's happened to save 7 and Robert Beltran.

379
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:05.400
Yeah?

380
00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:05.880
Yep.

381
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:11.099
And those people that have died. since uh, you know, season 7 of Voyager.

382
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.740
Well, what about all the people that died since series one?

383
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.440
Why didn't she go back to caretaker and change the future?

384
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:18.960
I did a little bit of research?

385
00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:30.059
Uh, and apparently about 37 people on the crew die during Voyager 7 year run?

386
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:41.640
And we're told by older Janeway that in the remainder, in the remaining 14 years or something that it takes them to get home, 22 people die.

387
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:47.519
So in fact, the death rate goes down dramatically towards the end of the run.

388
00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:49.680
Why would she choose her toilet?

389
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.319
Because she just faked... 7 of 9 and...

390
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:53.279
I think it's a problem.

391
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:55.200
I think it's actually a problem with a script.

392
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:01.500
And it's because the show doesn't want to do anything too shocking.

393
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:12.180
And because the show is wedded to the idea that when Voyager arrives home, there's a fly through the Golden Gate Bridge and fireworks and stuff.

394
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:22.799
And what really needed to be happening was that the ship was just limping, you know, barely makes at home in one piece and that it's been a huge disaster.

395
00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:26.759
And but they're too kind of cowardly to do that.

396
00:25:26.819 --> 00:25:36.420
And so what we get instead is Janeway, whose friend is sick, whose other friend has died, and then another friend has died, and she goes, that's unacceptable.

397
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:47.400
I'm going to change the flow of time, rather than saying, I'm a grown up and life is really difficult sometimes and people die and get sick and I should just learn to deal with it.

398
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.039
So her whole motivation is stupid, I think.

399
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:51.599
She's like, do you know what?

400
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.099
We've been back in time quite a few times.

401
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:54.599
I'll give that a go.

402
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.740
See if I can show you things.

403
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.599
I mean, like that's an option.

404
00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:00.119
You know, that's an option in the Star Trek universe, obviously.

405
00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:05.759
But you also as well, you could just, you could waive all the problems, all the objections we've just made with a line.

406
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:08.819
Yeah, she was trying to get back to where Caretaker was.

407
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:12.299
Oh dear, she made a miscalculation and ended up 7 years in the future.

408
00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:13.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

409
00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:20.220
She could have gone back to the beginning and just prevented it and did what happens here where they get to go home and imagine that.

410
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:21.900
And they get to do the thing.

411
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:22.559
But that was this.

412
00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:26.940
And we went back to Caretaker and they did exactly what they did in all good things.

413
00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:30.059
They, you know, everyone's hair was wrong, just like it wasn't that one.

414
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:36.059
But then that would mean that all of the 7 years of Voyager never happened, even though we'd watched.

415
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:49.859
I would like to say that within this entire tedious future that we're seeing, because there's another really interesting going on here, if I'm honest, Tim Russ is given a chance to do something a little bit different from the norm and he's very, very good.

416
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:51.180
Yeah, he is very good.

417
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:54.299
And every time they do this, Look at the publicity shot.

418
00:26:54.359 --> 00:27:00.839
Series 4 publicity shot on the, you know, on the side table as in the hospital as she leaves.

419
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:05.759
They used to do one every year, you know, to commemorate another year in the Del Squadron.

420
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:08.700
No, no, I mean, within the series in the show.

421
00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:09.420
Yeah, yeah.

422
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:24.240
But every time they allow Tim Ross to do something different, it does rather point out that he has been standing at that absolutely way saying, they are firing at us for 7 years, I'll never stop quoting that line from that convention where he said that.

423
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:29.039
Was that the one where I was standing behind the console saying they're firing at us, sir.

424
00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.279
He's so good.

425
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:33.660
I tell you what.

426
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:39.900
I follow all these people on Twitter, obviously, because of course they do, and he's wonderful, Tim Ross.

427
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.579
He's a smart man.

428
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:43.799
Did I ever tell you the story about him and Technobabble?

429
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:45.000
Can I drop it in now really quickly?

430
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:45.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

431
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:46.980
Nothing's going on.

432
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:48.059
So I've got a quote.

433
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.599
There won't be for about half an hour, don't worry.

434
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:55.200
Where he's going, you know, and it's just so unnatural.

435
00:27:55.259 --> 00:28:03.420
He goes for a scene where you've got a character beat and then a whole load of technobabble and then a character beat and then a whole load of technobabble.

436
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:23.460
He goes, and the flow of the scene, they just don't work and he said, it's fundamentally a problem with Star Trek in that you are putting genuine human emotion and fucking wacky nonsensical science in the same scene and you're being thrown between one and as an actor, he's like, how do you fucking sell that?

437
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:27.480
So, I mean, the idea is, let's just say, you do.

438
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:37.140
Yeah, I mean, the idea is that they're working, you know, so they're doing some work, and then they stop doing work, and talk to each other a bit, and then talk about the work for a bit, and then go on.

439
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.140
And that's the sort of thing that you might do in a procedural show anyway.

440
00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:43.019
But Star Trek has a particular...

441
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:44.220
I thought it was so interesting.

442
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:48.480
The way he's talking about going from the natural to the unnatural. so quickly.

443
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.640
I've never really heard anyone kind of criticise the techno babble before.

444
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:59.220
And I was like, well, good for you for saying it, you know, so we've got another John Billingsley on our hands here.

445
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:00.960
He was willing to say it how it is.

446
00:29:01.019 --> 00:29:03.839
And it is a particularly 90s Star Trek thing.

447
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:09.000
It's, there's not, there is technobabble in Kurtzman Trek, but not in the same way.

448
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.279
And there's hardly enough.

449
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:15.960
There's 10 about when DS 9, but in the latter years, again, it's not in the same way.

450
00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:21.420
It's not, you know, they used to literally write, insert technovabble here in the scripts.

451
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.119
Oh, can we talk about this set, please?

452
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:25.380
The funeral set.

453
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.019
Ah, again.

454
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:30.599
It's a soap opera.

455
00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:34.259
You know where you can find trees, Catherine, outside.

456
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.339
Do you know what?

457
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.599
And they look, they put that mournful gray sky behind there, haven't they?

458
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:49.079
I mean, to be fair, we've come on a bit from, you know, the studio sties of TNG series one.

459
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:50.279
We've come on a little bit.

460
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:55.619
So this is said, I think, in 23, 2404.

461
00:29:55.859 --> 00:30:03.119
So it's set just around about the time, I think, that Picard is set now.

462
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:04.140
Yeah.

463
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.000
So the beginning of the 24th century.

464
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.880
I mean, there's no reason why Admiral Janeway can't appear in Picard.

465
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:13.380
That makes no reason at all.

466
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.480
Yeah, she appeared in nemesis.

467
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:16.140
Yep.

468
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:17.880
Yeah. there you go.

469
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:20.759
Oh, right, here we go.

470
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:23.160
So finally, now we're in present day Voyager.

471
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:24.839
Where are we?

472
00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:25.319
Hang on.

473
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:28.200
We're in, and this is...

474
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:33.420
This is the 1st point in the episode where anything is actually relevant because...

475
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:36.359
Well, except that we don't know what's happened.

476
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.559
Do you know what I mean?

477
00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:43.259
We know that this isn't the future, like we know, I think, do we know it?

478
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:45.000
We know it before the opening credits.

479
00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:50.160
The big surprise is we're watching the show in order to see Voyager come home to Earth.

480
00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:53.519
The very 1st thing we see, oh, it's arrived on earth.

481
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:54.059
That was quick.

482
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:55.079
What's going to happen now?

483
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:59.279
And then we see that that was 14 years ago or whatever.

484
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.319
Um, 14, 10?

485
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:07.259
I just say, poor dumb Tom Paris heading off the Sick Bay with our his pregnant missus.

486
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.279
Oh, please.

487
00:31:08.339 --> 00:31:09.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

488
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:10.200
I'm sorry.

489
00:31:10.259 --> 00:31:12.359
I know you love this shit, don't you?

490
00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:13.859
You love this sitcom shit.

491
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:15.960
No, but this is bad sitcom stuff.

492
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:17.579
Like, this is tedious sitcom stuff.

493
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:18.180
That's terrible.

494
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.839
Like, I think sometimes that stuff can be funny.

495
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:30.240
And I think it is a thing that happens, you know, think about the giving birth in disaster where Keiko's giving birth.

496
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:32.640
And that's probably funny.

497
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:34.259
I'm trying.

498
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:34.799
Yeah, yeah.

499
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:37.500
It's absolutely going for laughs and getting them.

500
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.859
And I think that that's a thing that happens here.

501
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.240
I, you know, like...

502
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.039
Do you mean every time someone's going to have a baby?

503
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.539
Star Trek.

504
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:46.920
We're going to end up in sick.

505
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.700
I mean, it does happen in DS9 as well, with Shakara and O'Brien go through that door at the same time.

506
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:51.539
Yeah, that's true.

507
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:52.019
That's true.

508
00:31:52.259 --> 00:32:07.920
Again, there's a sword of joke, and it is a little bit lame where you have Tom Paris complaining that he's not getting any sleep because of these continuing false labours, and the doctor just looks at him and says, you think you've got a problem now.

509
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.680
You know, like that's sort of cute.

510
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:13.079
I mean, it's not particularly inventive or clever.

511
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:16.680
Oh, no, sorry to interrupt you.

512
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:18.359
I'm so sorry.

513
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:23.519
But you just said, the new the new chef is thinking of doing warp cordon blue.

514
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:26.700
It's so bad.

515
00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:30.240
The dialogue is so bad, but look how charming the 2 of them are.

516
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:33.539
Like, the 2 of them are actually, like she's smiling.

517
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.859
He's smiling properly.

518
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.680
The 2nd worst Robert is giving it a go.

519
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:43.140
The few moments where they lean into Jay Wern Shakose.

520
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:48.119
Do you remember when she goes off the rails in equinox after ransom?

521
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:54.180
And Chakotay's genuinely thinking of like staging a coup because she is so psychotic.

522
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.579
They're a really interesting parent.

523
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.799
I don't know why they ignore them for so much of the rum.

524
00:32:58.920 --> 00:32:59.579
Yeah.

525
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.559
Oh, no, here we go.

526
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:04.319
I'm sorry, it's going to be me saying, 0 no, here we go for most of this.

527
00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:08.460
This is introduced like 2 episodes from the end or something.

528
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:10.140
This is the 1st time we've seen them date.

529
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:12.000
It is an episode called Human Era.

530
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:18.180
What happened was 7 of 9 is, I think she's exploring Chakotay on the holodeck.

531
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:24.539
And what happens at the end of the episode is it resets.

532
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:29.819
The doctor says, you can't experience these emotions because of your quote unquote or something like that.

533
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:33.059
Some techno babble shit as to why they can't develop these characters.

534
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.880
And so we think it's dropped.

535
00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:37.500
And then it's just suddenly picked up here again.

536
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:38.940
It's odd.

537
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.500
Well, I think it's standing in for changing relationships as the thing ends.

538
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:49.079
You know, we've, I guess we've seen Tom and B'Elana get close.

539
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:51.480
Have we seen Calto before?

540
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.319
Oh, we have, haven't we?

541
00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:56.759
Oh, no, Chubo plays this all the time throughout Voyages Rum.

542
00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:58.559
And he's always playing against Harry Kim as well.

543
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:03.839
Yeah, so this is this is actually this is probably the most leaning into the path we get in the whole website.

544
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:04.799
Yeah, yeah.

545
00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:06.240
And this is quite good, actually.

546
00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:08.280
Actually, I don't mind...

547
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.739
Every time I see YouTube, I get a slight itching of the eye.

548
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awful, that thing, doing that to me. card series one.

549
00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:15.900
Oh, well.

550
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.340
It is awful.

551
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.260
But every time I see it, I do chuckle.

552
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.239
I'm going to say...

553
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.860
Harry Kim is such a chump, isn't he?

554
00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:26.340
I'm sorry.

555
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.880
This bit in a minute where they give Tom Paris the pip.

556
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:31.019
Is it in this episode?

557
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.019
No, I don't think he gets appeared.

558
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.659
Because he's already Lieutenant, isn't he?

559
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.960
I watched Unimetrics 0 earlier in the week.

560
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:40.320
Sorry.

561
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:41.699
I'm getting confused.

562
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:43.920
But he never had a promotion, did he?

563
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:44.760
Nope, no.

564
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:45.599
Yeah.

565
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:46.440
Yeah.

566
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:48.780
So they should have made a point of that.

567
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:52.079
His mother does when he finally speaks to his mom in series 7.

568
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.539
She goes, Harry, why haven't you had a promotion?

569
00:34:55.980 --> 00:35:00.179
We see that, which I hear is a realistic depiction, you know?

570
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:09.659
It's it's kind of a shame that that they come home and it's such a surprise to them.

571
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:27.000
And I think if we had had time this episode to explore kind of their feelings about, like do a light Borg thing or whatever, and explore their feelings about not being together anymore, I think that would have been interesting and it would have been doable and we could have still had a Star Trek episode.

572
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:27.900
Yeah, interesting.

573
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:35.219
Because the one kind of sentiment they really do here is we're a family now. is what's important.

574
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.519
And then we're home and we don't deal with any of the fallout of that at all.

575
00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:46.260
Whereas do you remember DS9, the 2nd half of the DS9 finale is them all going their separate ways and having to deal with the fact that they're all going their separate ways.

576
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.219
It's really heartbreaking.

577
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:49.800
Can I talk about how shittily this is directed?

578
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:55.260
So this is stellar cartography, astrometrics, one of those.

579
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:56.460
We're in astrometrics.

580
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:58.860
It's the place, I saw this tweet during the week.

581
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:06.059
It's the place where 7 goes to give the PowerPoint presentations about this week's space anomaly to the rest of the crew.

582
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:07.619
Astrometrics.

583
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:10.199
She's speaking to Neelix on the screen.

584
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:17.639
And for some reason, the director can't get their eyelines right or isn't even attempting to get their eyelines right.

585
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:24.119
So they don't at any point look like they're looking at one another and it's really kind of terrible.

586
00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:26.099
Like it's really just not very good.

587
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:31.079
Well, can I say the irony that Neelix?

588
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.679
Lovely, lovely Neelix who I know you're very keen on.

589
00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:37.380
Um, but I would say the audience as a whole.

590
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:46.800
He's probably the least favourite character on Voyager, or one off, got the best ending of the entire crew, but he got a whole episode dealing with him leaving the ship.

591
00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:50.519
And now we get to learn that he's in fact very happy and he's got a nice family.

592
00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:51.960
GoDelix.

593
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.239
Yeah, and that's it, that's him, isn't it?

594
00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:55.920
Or is he back later in this episode?

595
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:56.639
I can't believe.

596
00:36:56.699 --> 00:36:57.599
That's his one little scene.

597
00:36:57.659 --> 00:36:59.099
Well, he had to appear at some point.

598
00:36:59.460 --> 00:36:59.760
Yeah.

599
00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:00.119
I think so.

600
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:00.420
Yeah.

601
00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:00.780
Yeah.

602
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:01.920
I should have got Kes back.

603
00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:04.980
For some reason now, the director was shooting this handheld.

604
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.699
Did you notice that going behind their backs there as if this was a dramatic scene for some reason.

605
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:09.780
That's all right, whatever.

606
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.659
But so this is kind of interesting.

607
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:21.239
So they've found this bundle of wormholes that lead to the alpha quadrant and we'll later find out that it's a Borg transwarp hub.

608
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:23.579
That line I really like.

609
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:45.900
So the thing, the thing where they discuss the possibility, you know, don't tell your mom, you know, I could tell my mother and I could be home at my mother's place, you know, by the end of the day if we go there and um, and Janeway sort of says, oh, yeah, well, look into it, uh, you know, who knows we might find one that ends up in your mother's living room.

610
00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:53.340
And then, and then later on at the end of the scene, Janeway says, call your mother and tell her to move the sofa.

611
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:54.840
I think that's a cute line.

612
00:37:54.900 --> 00:38:00.960
Like, that's a sort of sweet bantery kind of line that doesn't make me want to...

613
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:03.599
I'd say to you.

614
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:05.099
I thought that was really agonising.

615
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:05.820
Oh, dear.

616
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:06.420
We really are.

617
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.000
We are in different places, but there's something going on.

618
00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:12.000
Well, it's just that so often the Voyager banter is so bad.

619
00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:17.039
And often it involves Beltran, Robert Duncan McNeil.

620
00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:18.539
And so it's really awful.

621
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:25.139
I do think, though, that whilst the banter is frequently shockingly awful.

622
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.739
I do think there is a genuine chemistry between the crew.

623
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.300
And when they're all in scenes together.

624
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.539
I do feel that sort of family feel that they're going for.

625
00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:36.539
And that's, I think, I don't think it's the characterisation.

626
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:42.840
I think it's the actors that have worked together for 7 years and I really relaxed around each other and love being together.

627
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.179
So, you know, I will give them that.

628
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.340
And I think they're playing it up this episode.

629
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:53.400
I think they are going out of their way to be a little bit more kind of at ease with one another in their performances.

630
00:38:54.179 --> 00:39:01.199
I've never met anyone at all who has a strange vocal tick every time they lie like this, like Reg Barkley.

631
00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:02.639
So stupid.

632
00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:03.840
What is this?

633
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:06.900
Him jumping on the Voy Japan waggon series 6 and seven.

634
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.579
It's very strange edition.

635
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:09.659
I like it.

636
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:11.099
Like, I like it.

637
00:39:11.099 --> 00:39:13.199
And, you know, it's not just him on his own.

638
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:15.900
It is him and Deanna.

639
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.780
Yeah, you should have been Troy in this one.

640
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:19.559
This should be amazing.

641
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:21.360
Yeah, yeah, it would have been pretty good.

642
00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:22.739
It would have been lovely to see you.

643
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.079
She'd just lie through her teeth, wouldn't she, Troy?

644
00:39:25.139 --> 00:39:25.920
Oh, yeah.

645
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:27.000
She's off somewhere, you know.

646
00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:29.039
That would have been really good, wouldn't it?

647
00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:32.159
But they would have put her in ageing makeup and no one wants to see that.

648
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:33.539
We've seen man other people.

649
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:34.679
We don't need to go there again.

650
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:45.360
I do like the older Janeway going off and doing all this subterfuge, you know, going off to the Klingons, getting this better, stealing it without giving them the money. you know I do like all of that.

651
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:46.920
Oh, they've broken their word.

652
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.679
Like he breaks his word and so she says, all right, well, screw it.

653
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:50.519
I'm just gonna take it.

654
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:53.039
It's really good and she gets to do fun things.

655
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:54.119
I think those scenes are fun.

656
00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:59.880
It's fun to see her doing that stuff. of this ever happened.

657
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.619
I'm not going to stop saying that, I know.

658
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:02.400
I just watched it.

659
00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:05.039
It happened as much as anything else on the show ever happened.

660
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:05.820
We're watching it now.

661
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:09.300
If you say so, okay.

662
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:12.300
Some of it really happened, and then the rest of it did.

663
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:14.460
Shut up.

664
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.840
Is this fiction?

665
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:20.699
Yeah, what?

666
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.059
Yes.

667
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:21.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

668
00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:23.159
Yeah, it's not a documentary.

669
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:24.780
This commentary is really happening, right?

670
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:25.739
Right now.

671
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:26.280
Yeah.

672
00:40:26.340 --> 00:40:27.780
No, this is fiction as well.

673
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:29.280
It's on a TV screen.

674
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:31.500
Love you.

675
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:34.500
Someone's devised this thing, okay?

676
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

677
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:35.460
Yeah.

678
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:47.039
Um, what do you think about the fabulous shuttle with the shields, you know, the physical shields, the emerge around the shuttle?

679
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:47.699
Why not?

680
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:48.420
We can do that now.

681
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.019
Let's do it.

682
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:50.159
Yeah.

683
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:52.320
I do like the fact that they give it to Voyager.

684
00:40:52.380 --> 00:40:54.360
Again, I wish they'd had that earlier.

685
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:55.800
That would have been really useful.

686
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:59.159
Yeah, but, you know, we're like Planetorus's daughter.

687
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:02.460
Yeah, yeah, I think she's good.

688
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:10.800
And she's, you know, I think it's lovely to see her in an episode where she's just going to be born and seeing how sort of fabulous she is as well.

689
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:11.519
She's pretty good.

690
00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:12.539
Yeah.

691
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:14.219
Or could be.

692
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:15.900
Well, you know, whatever.

693
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:18.659
That's all we're going to say.

694
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.579
Okay, we just forgot about that.

695
00:41:20.699 --> 00:41:22.079
It's all we're getting.

696
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:25.139
You are your mother's daughter.

697
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:26.699
That means you got a fiery temper.

698
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:27.659
Yeah, yeah.

699
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:32.699
We have talked about that being slightly problematic, but there's no getting away from it now at this point, I think.

700
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:34.440
What do you think of the new uniforms?

701
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:37.079
Yeah.

702
00:41:38.579 --> 00:41:41.099
The Voyager uniforms are a bit of a problem anyway.

703
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:54.480
We said how much they look like kind of pyjamas and stuff in, uh, in state of flocks, how ridiculous they looked when they've got, you know, there's the pockets where they put the tricorder in a pocket and they put their phase in a pocket.

704
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:55.860
They just look ridiculous.

705
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:56.639
Yeah, yeah.

706
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:03.119
I think the worst uniform, those are the early DS9 ones with all the black and then just a little bit of colour on the top.

707
00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:04.739
That's the Voyager uniforms.

708
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.019
Like, that's where I'll touch it very much.

709
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:09.000
Yeah, I think there are...

710
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:09.719
I like the gray.

711
00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:11.820
You know, it's a bit more muscular.

712
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

713
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:16.920
Well, I really like, I love the discovery, the red ones.

714
00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:22.800
I really like those ones Yeah, well, the the 31st century ones or what if they are.

715
00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:24.599
I don't even know what century they're anymore.

716
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:27.780
Kind of sexy, though, fitted.

717
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:37.559
Do you know, um, I do remember a line from earlier in the episode that is very funny and that is, it's not a line so much, it's the delivery when Bilana Torre says, I want you to get this thing out of me.

718
00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:40.320
No, I think she delivers that brilliant.

719
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.039
If you can trust anyone to be angry.

720
00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:45.239
It's Roxanne Dawson.

721
00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:45.599
Yeah.

722
00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:47.760
Look at Jayway's face here.

723
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:48.900
Look talking to this Klingon.

724
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:49.980
Yeah, no, she's really good.

725
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.059
She's really good.

726
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:51.659
This is good stuff.

727
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:54.179
This is like gambit. only not good.

728
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:56.099
I mean, only good.

729
00:42:56.219 --> 00:42:57.059
Only good.

730
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:58.260
That's right.

731
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:00.719
Gambit is not good, just in case I said that.

732
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:03.360
I think there's only one word for that expression and that is steel.

733
00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:05.880
She has steel with her eyes.

734
00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:07.019
She's really good.

735
00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:10.980
So what is she after?

736
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:13.860
I'd never figure out what she was after.

737
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:14.760
Time Crystal.

738
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:15.480
I don't know.

739
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:16.440
A thing.

740
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:21.480
I just assumed it was a time crystal because they're Klingon things, but it isn't.

741
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:23.940
It is something else, but it's whatever she needs.

742
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:25.019
How far in the future is this?

743
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:26.280
From 21 years.

744
00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:27.119
Or just time?

745
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.599
Yeah.

746
00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:28.260
21.

747
00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:34.920
So in the last 21 years, there's been an episode of Star Trek which introduces these crystals that's been very relevant.

748
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:38.639
Obviously, we've never seen it because we're not privy to anything that happened.

749
00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:40.320
I can't remember. 15 years?

750
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:41.099
I don't know.

751
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:42.179
I have lost count.

752
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:43.440
Another so many years.

753
00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.780
I mean, they may as well just say a thing, mightn't they?

754
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:47.219
Like, for all the relevance it is.

755
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:49.019
Why don't we see Chell?

756
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:50.280
I don't want to see Chell.

757
00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:51.900
Is he like, I guess Chell is like...

758
00:43:52.019 --> 00:43:54.780
We saw a, did we see a bowling, offering out drinks?

759
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:55.860
Oh, okay.

760
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.179
Right, that must have been him.

761
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:59.699
I don't think it was chill, though, because he's overweight, isn't he?

762
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:00.300
Okay.

763
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.539
Because there's chef, isn't there, in Enterprise who we never see?

764
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:05.400
Do we ever say chef in Enterprise?

765
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:07.079
I don't know.

766
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:12.840
All I remember was in that episode where Tubok had to get the marquee people in line and he made them run around the ship for 40 minutes.

767
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.900
That was overweight bullion.

768
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:17.820
I think it was Chow actually.

769
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.420
It was, it was, it was really sulky as well.

770
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:22.860
Was it Vorik as well?

771
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.559
Like, he was just...

772
00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:26.639
Yeah.

773
00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:29.280
Oh my god, it's a massive Borg cube.

774
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:30.960
That is actually a...

775
00:44:31.019 --> 00:44:31.920
That's so good.

776
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:36.000
Where they duck, like they're even ducking because the...

777
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:37.139
They save some money for this.

778
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:38.880
The special effects are very good.

779
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.019
I think.

780
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.300
And I think later on, when you see the big ball city.

781
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:43.679
The array looks amazing.

782
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.460
It's terrific.

783
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:45.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

784
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:46.679
But it's nothing new.

785
00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:48.179
That's the bad way issue.

786
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:56.940
But I guess, you know, Voyager has the Borg as it's being bad for, I guess, you know, like it is kind of unavoidable.

787
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.719
I think you do want to have them do something, defeat the Borg.

788
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:08.940
I love how the ball queen has a sense of occasion because what she's got is a spotlight that moves and follows her around wherever she goes.

789
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:10.440
So, you know, it's very dramatic.

790
00:45:10.500 --> 00:45:14.400
So this isn't the same Borg queen that we had in Unimatrix zero.

791
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:23.099
Now, that's Susanna Thompson, who did a few guest spots on Star Trek the Next Generation.

792
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:28.079
And she was she was Lenara Khan in Rejoined.

793
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:30.059
She was the Nazi ex-lover.

794
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:31.800
Fantastic in that too.

795
00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:32.219
Yeah.

796
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:32.820
Yeah.

797
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:35.039
No, so she's very different from the ball queen.

798
00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:36.059
Yeah, yeah.

799
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.460
And so, but this is the ball queen from 1st contact.

800
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:46.199
And I guess that's fair enough because, you know, one of the reasons that we have the Borg in Voyager, am I getting the timing ride?

801
00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:52.380
One of the reasons we have the Borgian Voyager is because they're reusing props and costumes and stuff from 1st contact.

802
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.179
Very possibly, yes.

803
00:45:54.239 --> 00:46:01.199
No, I mean, I genuinely think that they meet the Borg at that and we see them over and over again because we've got all that stuff.

804
00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:03.719
I think initially it was a creative choice.

805
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:07.739
I think, you know, they're like, we could do something interesting with that.

806
00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:08.280
And they do.

807
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:09.480
They absolutely do.

808
00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:10.800
But yeah, you're right.

809
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.320
If we can borrow the sets and they're for the 1st contact.

810
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:13.679
Why not?

811
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:24.239
And in fact, here, this is one of the 1st times where we're seeing those sort of 1st contact cubes, which, you know, it's not just a square, it's got a bit more depth to it and layers.

812
00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:25.199
Yeah, yeah.

813
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:26.880
And also... maybe they're boring.

814
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:27.659
They're special effects as well.

815
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:32.159
Yeah, but the way that they're directed, like they're directed to look like squares normally.

816
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:39.420
And so if you can direct them so that they're coming into the shot at an angle or something so they look more like physical objects.

817
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:48.659
Like you remember in best of both worlds, the cube is just looking at you straight on and in that one, we got to see its angles and stuff and it was a little bit more interesting.

818
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:50.280
Do you remember?

819
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:55.019
And Q-Hoo, when we saw a close-up on the cube regenerating and all...

820
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:57.119
That was so creepy, wasn't it?

821
00:46:57.179 --> 00:46:59.820
Whatever happened to the ball being that creepy?

822
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:09.480
Do you think that what that was was a plastic model of the surface that they just ran a hairdryer over and then played the film backward?

823
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.059
I don't I reckon it could have been.

824
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.659
No, no, I think it looks it looks really weird.

825
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:16.860
I couldn't quite figure it out.

826
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:18.480
So that's what I liked about it.

827
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:21.179
Whereas, you know, I'm going to be a bit mean again.

828
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:30.659
Now the Borg are literally reduced to someone standing there strutting in a spotlight going, I am going to take you down, you know, and just not interesting.

829
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:41.940
Yeah, but I mean, with the board queen can work and we saw that in that episode of Picard series too, that we watched where that Borg queen in Picard was just magnificent, so properly good.

830
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:46.739
But that's because they were doing something interesting psychologically with Agnes as well.

831
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.320
And that was really kind of creepy.

832
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:52.260
But it's...

833
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:58.440
Yeah, but when the Borg 1st arrived too, remember, that the makeup, they're just white, right?

834
00:47:58.500 --> 00:47:59.940
They've just got white skin.

835
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.159
And the mottled zombie Borg only really come in in 1st contact.

836
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:09.960
And that's the version of the Borg that Voyager brings us.

837
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:20.820
So I just watched Scorpion part 2 like a week or so ago and seeing Jerry Ryan as the sort of mottled kind of zombie borg is pretty great.

838
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.099
She's pretty good. how far she's come.

839
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:23.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

840
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:31.320
But you know, you know the bit later on, obviously, where the older Janeway confronts or doesn't, because she's a hologram, the ball queen.

841
00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:39.119
And I feel like it's supposed to be this sort of climactic moment between these 2 characters, you know, from this story between them.

842
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:41.699
And it's just not there, is it?

843
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:43.739
It's not what it should be.

844
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:44.760
The special effects are great.

845
00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:47.340
Our arms are falling off and it looks amazing.

846
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.019
But it doesn't have a sense of occasion that it probably should have.

847
00:48:52.440 --> 00:49:01.139
And so what we have in this scene is them very, very quickly dealing with that, the conclusion to, what did you say it was called?

848
00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:02.940
Human error.

849
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:03.659
Human error.

850
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:04.800
Not called real life.

851
00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:05.639
That's another one.

852
00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:08.820
Um, so human era.

853
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.900
What does he say?

854
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.320
Yes, suddenly your cortical nodes are not being affected.

855
00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:25.559
No, no, he says, I've been working on a thing and instead of being a series of procedures that will take a lot of time, you just come here after work and I'll have it done by the time the commercial breaks over.

856
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:28.199
Do not think through these seasons, Nathan.

857
00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:30.000
No, that's it, isn't it?

858
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:41.699
But I think they, I think that they just did whatever ending they needed to make human error work and they relied on the fact that you can just bullshit your way with techno babble through that sort of thing and at a lot.

859
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.420
But also as well, right?

860
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:48.239
This shows they are pandering to these sort of people because who gives a fuck how human error ended.

861
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:49.679
Just letting them have the romance.

862
00:49:49.739 --> 00:49:50.340
Yeah.

863
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:51.420
Yeah.

864
00:49:51.480 --> 00:50:00.719
Well, I mean, you know, part of the thing about the late season romance, though, is that, you know, like they did with Troy and and Worf.

865
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:06.179
They only do it because it doesn't have any consequences and they don't have to worry about it.

866
00:50:07.380 --> 00:50:09.360
Do you know what it means?

867
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:10.079
having that scene.

868
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:13.079
It means the techno babble is as important as the emotion.

869
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:14.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

870
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:14.820
Yeah.

871
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:15.659
That's a problem.

872
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:18.360
Oh, here she goes.

873
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:19.500
Okay, here's the older joke.

874
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:22.920
I'm going to stop bitching because older Janeway is about to be very cool. very fabulous.

875
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:26.940
And taking your technology and I don't give a damn.

876
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:29.699
It is so wonderful, isn't she?

877
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:31.500
Bless her.

878
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:32.460
She is great.

879
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:34.199
Oh my god, I love this.

880
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:35.579
I love that armour so much.

881
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:36.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

882
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:37.500
Do you know what it looks like?

883
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:38.820
looks like an armadillo, doesn't it?

884
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:40.260
Yeah, yeah. really terrific.

885
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:43.440
And you can see it's beaming into existence around the ship.

886
00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:48.000
Like you get the the transporter um effect.

887
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:50.159
I think it's really good, you know.

888
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:52.860
She said, what do you want?

889
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.239
She has no fucks left again.

890
00:50:57.300 --> 00:50:59.579
You can't do it better with Kai Wynn just before he killed her.

891
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:02.219
He said, are you still here?

892
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:09.000
She just hangs up on him.

893
00:51:09.059 --> 00:51:09.840
Sorry, busy.

894
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:13.800
Do we do we know that she's often a future to chase things yet?

895
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.960
Or do we don't not know until she emerges?

896
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:23.519
No, I got the impression I can't, I don't know, because I was watching it, having watched it before and knowing what the premise was.

897
00:51:23.579 --> 00:51:26.880
But when I watched this, I wasn't, oh, here we go, here's Harry.

898
00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:34.619
I think it becomes clear to even the very slow-witted viewers amongst us what's happening because Harry's here to stop her.

899
00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:35.699
Yeah.

900
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:40.199
Oh, no, it doesn't she says something by Chakotay's grave, maybe?

901
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:40.860
I can't remember.

902
00:51:41.219 --> 00:51:46.199
This is exactly how timeless plays out, though. when La Forge turns up to stop Harry.

903
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.920
Garrett Wagn must be going, I'm getting, I'm getting deja vu here.

904
00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:52.679
I was on the other side of this conversation last time.

905
00:51:52.739 --> 00:52:02.099
Well, you know how we said that not enough had gone wrong for her to change the timeline and for everyone to let her change the timeline?

906
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:05.460
And that's the genius of timeless, isn't it?

907
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:13.500
Because it's got that incredible visual of the of the ship under the ice, which is incredibly well realised.

908
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:19.920
And and so there's a very potent scene at the end where he leaves the message to himself as well.

909
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:21.000
I love that.

910
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:29.039
So it's not a reset button because Harry knows about it. he doesn't quite know how that message gets there, but it's really properly good.

911
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:35.639
Do you know, I really like this scene because I think the Harry Janeway relationship.

912
00:52:35.699 --> 00:52:38.460
That has been played out throughout the entire run.

913
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:41.400
She has been like a mother figure to him.

914
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:43.800
They've had a few spats along the way.

915
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.199
He's thrown his toys out of the pram a few times.

916
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:53.039
And I like the fact that he's coming in now and he's a captain and he's basically saying, look, I'm here to tell you back, all right?

917
00:52:53.099 --> 00:52:54.599
What about this?

918
00:52:54.659 --> 00:52:55.800
Did she just talk him around?

919
00:52:55.860 --> 00:52:56.280
can't remember.

920
00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:57.179
Did she just talk about that?

921
00:52:57.239 --> 00:53:07.260
She actually says, I remember a young Harry wanting us to fly into a nest of wormholes that was a Borg drone thing, you know, in order to find a way home.

922
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:15.659
So she's actually talking about the event that we've just seen, like reminiscing about the event that we've seen in the present timeline, which I kind of like.

923
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:23.760
I think, again, all of the all of the relationships are so promising and just never go anywhere.

924
00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:32.280
And so we've said that the one between Chakotay and Janeway was often good and had the potential to be really good.

925
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:43.079
The relationship between Janeway and Tuvok, which they're really leaning into in this plot is also just really, really excellent and just absolutely underused.

926
00:53:43.139 --> 00:53:53.400
And the relationship between her and Garrett's character, again, is just wonderful and it really, really had the potential because he's that age, you know.

927
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:54.480
Yeah.

928
00:53:54.539 --> 00:54:04.139
What's frustrating is, is throughout the rum that you could probably cite like what, maybe 3 occasions or episodes where those relationships really hear.

929
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:05.039
Yeah.

930
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.699
So you know, you just, you know it could work brilliantly.

931
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:21.960
And then, and then we're stuck doing procedurals and working things going on and salamander babies and but I don't think those things are inconsistent or like incompatible with good Star Trek.

932
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:32.760
And if you look at Strange New Worlds, it does those things, the characters have well-defined relationships with one another that develop, they're fun and funny.

933
00:54:32.820 --> 00:54:34.440
There's time to do banter.

934
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:40.199
There's time for us to enjoy ourselves and there's time to get a space problem solved, you know.

935
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:41.219
I'm sorry, Nathan.

936
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:42.719
I'm watching.

937
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:43.980
Kiss right now.

938
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:45.179
Yeah.

939
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:52.139
I mean, it is nice to see Jerry Ryan being romantic, but I much more believe her with graphic than I do with Chakotay.

940
00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:53.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

941
00:54:53.460 --> 00:55:02.880
Although, you know, Chakotay's a handsome man, and she's a beautiful woman, and like, if you're going to have heterosexuals on these shows, you may as well.

942
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:05.519
It takes away from 7 because he's so boring.

943
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:08.820
I refuse to believe she was born for somebody, that boy.

944
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:10.199
She just thinks it's hot, though.

945
00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:10.920
Do you know what I mean?

946
00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:12.300
She doesn't listen to him or anything.

947
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:19.380
She switches off her auditory cortex while he's in the room and then just...

948
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:37.320
But I do like seeing her playing it more relaxed, the way that she plays it in Picard now, where, you know, she is, she's still awkward and a bit of a nerd and stuff and a little bit of a sort of science geek, but she's a little bit more normal and relaxed and talks like a normal person.

949
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:39.840
And the seeds of it are sown here.

950
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:43.320
And I actually like her performance in this a lot, you know.

951
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:47.699
And there was a few times in this season where they let her let her.

952
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.420
Do you remember the episode where, um, she's the doctor?

953
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:53.940
So she's playing Robert Picardo.

954
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.260
Do you remember that one?

955
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:59.579
Yeah, and she's and she's flirting with people outrageously.

956
00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:05.340
She's eating all these desserts. everything like that Oh, what's that one call?

957
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:06.360
I can't remember what it was called.

958
00:56:06.420 --> 00:56:08.820
It's absolutely hilarious She plays it up.

959
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:10.199
Brilliantly.

960
00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:13.980
I think they got to that point where they were just like, let's just let her have fun, you know.

961
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:16.320
I'm watching that when we finish here, you know.

962
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:18.179
It's really really funny.

963
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:24.960
And then she and then when she goes back to being 7 or 9 again, She tells him off she got, you made me flirt with that person.

964
00:56:25.019 --> 00:56:27.119
You made me...

965
00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:27.960
I got a weight.

966
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:30.300
I've seen what I have to fit into.

967
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:36.000
Okay, Harry's off.

968
00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:38.639
Harry's off Is she ever going to go to the future?

969
00:56:38.699 --> 00:56:39.960
This is taking forever.

970
00:56:40.019 --> 00:56:45.780
Yeah, I like this scene though, but again, because it's a two-parter in syndication, they have to meet at halfway point.

971
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:47.940
So we're about to hit the half going.

972
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:48.900
Do you hear what it's called?

973
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:49.920
A chrono.

974
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:51.659
Chrono. what we want.

975
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:54.300
It's not quite as good as the temporal biobed.

976
00:56:54.360 --> 00:56:56.519
Biotemporal biotemporal therapy.

977
00:56:56.579 --> 00:56:57.239
Was that in?

978
00:56:57.300 --> 00:56:58.619
In before and after.

979
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.239
Yeah.

980
00:57:00.300 --> 00:57:01.139
Right at the beginning.

981
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.059
Tell us what the episode was about in the 1st line.

982
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:04.739
So bad.

983
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:15.900
Do you know, one thing I was aware of was how you watch episodes like Sacrifice of Angel, things like that, and they had some fairly dynamic battles.

984
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:17.699
I'm not sure why a Voyager.

985
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:20.280
They couldn't really do exciting battle scenes.

986
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:22.320
Generally static spaceship shooting.

987
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:25.619
It's the next generation version of a battle scene.

988
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:27.719
Yeah, like these are moving in a straight line.

989
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:31.320
Oh, look, here's the USS Rhode Island coming in the back to save the day.

990
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:37.679
I actually got...

991
00:57:37.739 --> 00:57:43.320
The Borg Transwarp, um, hub reminded me a lot of that.

992
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:51.539
That, um, the shipyard, that they destroy in, um, shadows and symbols.

993
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:53.639
It's a couple of years later.

994
00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:55.260
So it looks a bit more impressive.

995
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:56.099
It does look a bit more.

996
00:57:56.099 --> 00:57:57.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

997
00:57:57.059 --> 00:58:01.079
But it's got a similar kind of vibe, all sort of spindly and kind of weird looking.

998
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:06.599
But I do like the idea of that, that sort of bulk city that they go into.

999
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:12.179
But and then I would, my mind goes into overdrive and I'm like, oh, you could do so many exciting things with this.

1000
00:58:12.179 --> 00:58:13.619
And it's not.

1001
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:14.340
It's just blown up.

1002
00:58:14.460 --> 00:58:17.340
Yeah, they could do it now, couldn't they?

1003
00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:34.019
I never, I'll never forget that shot from, was it Picard episode one where you're in the middle of the board cube and it comes out and it keeps going and it keeps going and we go through all the layers of the Borg ship until we come right outside of the ship and you see it from the distance.

1004
00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:36.900
Yeah, I think it gives, I don't know, the depth.

1005
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:38.639
Yeah, so good.

1006
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:42.420
And I was like, okay, that's that's the effects we're playing with nowadays.

1007
00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:54.719
So this is, she's just come in through the wormhole and we're having a whole yesterday's enterprise thing only if Rachel Garrett was John Luke Picard, I guess.

1008
00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:57.239
And this is the end.

1009
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:00.539
So this is the this is the cliffhanger.

1010
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:10.800
Oh, so we get the Borg Queen saying some villain line, probably, and there we, then we, I don't know, she just, she just looks, she just looks.

1011
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.639
That's pretty good.

1012
00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:12.599
That is pretty good.

1013
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:13.199
All right.

1014
00:59:13.260 --> 00:59:14.579
Yeah, so that's it.

1015
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.219
That's our commercial break and the end of part one.

1016
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:22.380
So basically, the cliffhanger is, we're doing deadlock.

1017
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:29.099
Well, yeah, except the deadlock is is different, and I think this is different.

1018
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:31.079
I think deadlock is very good.

1019
00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:45.840
I think deadlock is very good, but I think what this does is what the show has to do in the finale as well, which is to re-examine in the decision that she made in the opening episode in the in the premiere.

1020
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:52.079
So Janeway has changed and become more cynical.

1021
00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:58.980
And even look at how they, I mean, she says that she's finding it hard to play against her.

1022
00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:05.820
And, you know, like they must shoot scenes where they're not with the other person in the room necessarily or whatever.

1023
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.820
That must happen from time to time, and it's not as good as being there.

1024
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:11.280
But it's just the blocking.

1025
01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:12.480
It just looks so weird.

1026
01:00:12.539 --> 01:00:14.519
So suddenly it doesn't feel like a performance.

1027
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:16.739
It feels like an effect. the coffee offer.

1028
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:17.400
Did you see that?

1029
01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:19.079
She just took a cup of coffee.

1030
01:00:19.139 --> 01:00:21.960
She didn't look natural, though. doesn't look natural.

1031
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:24.539
They can never do this in 90 straight.

1032
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:25.260
They do it a lot.

1033
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:26.940
I don't think it ever really works.

1034
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:29.460
I remember the 1st time they tried it.

1035
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:33.719
So in 2nd chances, you've got the 2 Rikers on either side of the screen.

1036
01:00:33.780 --> 01:00:40.559
The way that Samantha and Serena in Bewitched would be back in the 60s or early 70s.

1037
01:00:40.619 --> 01:00:45.300
You know, they could do it provided, and sometimes you would see the line down the middle of the screen.

1038
01:00:45.300 --> 01:00:50.460
And they're both staying right on their side of the screen and you kind of think, oh, yeah, okay, I know how this is done.

1039
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:59.340
And then one Riker walks off and walks onto the other side and walks around the other Riker and looks at him.

1040
01:00:59.340 --> 01:01:00.659
And it's so amazing.

1041
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:02.639
It was absolutely mind blowing at the time.

1042
01:01:02.699 --> 01:01:13.679
Do you know what's the, what I think is like the best one is in Crossover, where it's Intendant and Kira, and she's flirting with her and she leans in to kiss her and, you know, the effect is terrible.

1043
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:18.360
I'll give him props for props for none of his, but given that a go, I'll tell you.

1044
01:01:18.420 --> 01:01:31.619
But, but I mean, what we have here is, like, in Janeway's right, okay, Voyager's home, I'm an admiral, some people died, you know, but fewer people than we might have expected given the way this show goes normally.

1045
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:34.980
So that's a problem, as we said before.

1046
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:36.000
That's a real problem.

1047
01:01:36.059 --> 01:01:41.280
If the ship had undergone, had just limped home and lots of people had dying had been really terrible.

1048
01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:42.840
Like timeless.

1049
01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:47.940
I mean, it's all right to go back and save the ship when everyone's dead and they're kind of frozen in ice.

1050
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:55.019
But here, you know, they just, it takes them a bit longer than they expected and we're going to destroy the entire future to do it.

1051
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.199
Like, that doesn't really make any sense.

1052
01:01:58.260 --> 01:02:03.719
And so, but let's just pretend something worse had happened.

1053
01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:15.239
Now we've got an admiral who's lived through all of that and she thinks that Janeway's made the wrong decision, you know, in caretaker, I think.

1054
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:17.699
She doesn't explicitly say that. doesn't she?

1055
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:22.199
Our Janeway does condemn her and say, no, you shouldn't be doing this.

1056
01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:23.460
This isn't right.

1057
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.519
Which is the right response.

1058
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:31.019
But she does, like, because what's going to happen.

1059
01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:34.199
But what ends up happening is, though, they are going to go home.

1060
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:45.059
They're going to use the technology that she has to get past the Borg and then get home through the transwarp. network or whatever, right?

1061
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:46.380
Yeah.

1062
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:46.800
Yeah.

1063
01:02:46.860 --> 01:02:48.599
And that's all fine.

1064
01:02:48.659 --> 01:02:50.519
But then they realise that they could destroy.

1065
01:02:50.579 --> 01:02:56.400
They're in a position to destroy the conduit instead and cripple the Borg, and they all decide to do that.

1066
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:59.280
And that's the decision.

1067
01:02:59.340 --> 01:03:01.139
And that's what's great.

1068
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:05.400
That's the decision that Janeway made on her own without consulting anyone else.

1069
01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:10.139
And now all of the crew, including Harry, get to make the same decision.

1070
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:16.920
We're prepared to forego our chance at a voyage home because we can do some good instead.

1071
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:19.440
And I think that's really good. think that's great.

1072
01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:20.639
Let's not go home.

1073
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:22.500
Let's do mass murder instead.

1074
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.199
No, well, let's prevent the Borg doing mass murder.

1075
01:03:25.260 --> 01:03:32.579
And they even talk about the 1000000s of people that the Borg will now not kill because they don't have the transwarp network anymore.

1076
01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:35.699
Like I think that's pretty good.

1077
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:37.019
You know.

1078
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:42.179
And then, and then she does, she does, you know, what I think is really great.

1079
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:44.579
It turns out because we have an extra Jane way.

1080
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:49.260
We can, um, We can have our cake and eat it too.

1081
01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:59.519
So she gets to go home and destroy the Borg and that way, you know, just... everything about these plots that annoy me.

1082
01:03:59.579 --> 01:04:01.860
See, I love that sort of stuff.

1083
01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:04.380
I just sort of think, no screw it.

1084
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:10.019
We, you know, our Janeway has convinced Admiral Janeway.

1085
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:31.079
Like, and like has genuinely convinced Admiral Janeway, that in fact, you know, they're right, and the sort of cynicism that she's developed is wrong, you know, and she's enjoyed meeting, you know, the new, more ide- the fresher, more idealistic Janeway, all of that.

1086
01:04:31.139 --> 01:04:31.739
I love that stuff.

1087
01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:41.039
It becomes an examination at all. how the 2 characters are very different and how they are starkly contrasted against each other.

1088
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:46.800
And I do like how much of a bitch the older Jane Weirs, because she comes in and did you hear what she said a minute ago?

1089
01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:50.219
Well, how do you know I am not a member of Species 8472 in skies.

1090
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:54.599
You know, like she's not even like trying to pretend she might not be who she says she is.

1091
01:04:54.659 --> 01:05:01.920
And it does lean into the biggest strength of Voyager, and that is having more K-mong group because that's never a bad thing.

1092
01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:20.219
Well, did you see that scene just then where she's standing in between, um, uh, Beltran, and I think it was, um, I think it must have been, um, Harry, and just laughing, like old Janeway, and it was just really kind of fun and companion.

1093
01:05:20.699 --> 01:05:21.119
Here we go.

1094
01:05:21.179 --> 01:05:22.559
Here we go.

1095
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:27.119
I just, I just, this is a person, I just couldn't be less interested in all of this.

1096
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:37.019
I, you know, like, like, take a look at Deadlock and what Deadlock did, you know, and the Janeway makes the ultimate sacrifice.

1097
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:42.659
She blows up the bridge and has a fabulous scene where the VD install me and she goes, welcome to the bridge just as it blows up.

1098
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:46.559
And is this done just a 1000000 times cooler than this?

1099
01:05:46.619 --> 01:05:53.460
Yeah. you know, and less languid. and less protracted. and I'm sounding like an old grub, aren't I?

1100
01:05:53.519 --> 01:06:06.840
Well, I mean, I think that we want this. this is the last that we get of this crew and even though they've been, you know, good at times and not quite so good at other times, you know, like I'm, you're sorry to see them go.

1101
01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:09.900
And I think we get to spend some time with them.

1102
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:12.480
They get to do some Borg shit, which is kind of exciting.

1103
01:06:12.539 --> 01:06:18.719
We get to relitigate the main moral dilemma of caretaker.

1104
01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:20.039
And then we get to go home.

1105
01:06:20.099 --> 01:06:23.519
You know, like, it's not...

1106
01:06:23.579 --> 01:06:29.820
Are you saying, Joe, you, you know, you should know at this point in Voyages Run, you're never going to see anything new.

1107
01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:32.400
Just enjoy what they're giving you. essentially.

1108
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:35.820
I think that this is the best we could probably have hoped for.

1109
01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:42.420
And I guess there are things that I think they could have done to improve it, but I don't think it's a terrible choice.

1110
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:45.239
You know, I think these are the sort of things that we want to do.

1111
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:49.559
They are sort of done a bit boringly, you know, that's kind of true.

1112
01:06:49.619 --> 01:06:57.119
Oh, yeah, see, she is kind of uh, getting a bit flirty, isn't it?

1113
01:06:57.179 --> 01:06:58.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

1114
01:06:58.139 --> 01:06:59.880
Why wouldn't you?

1115
01:06:59.940 --> 01:07:00.780
It's Jerry Roy.

1116
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:01.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1117
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:03.300
No, they're both gorgeous women.

1118
01:07:03.420 --> 01:07:06.119
Do you know what the original idea was for this?

1119
01:07:06.179 --> 01:07:25.139
Originally, um, when Voyager emerges, um, there was supposed to be an entire Bulwark army that was heading towards Earth, and then Voyager was going to have the secret to, you know, starting a cascade reaction, and the whole army was going to blow up in a spectacular, not just one ship.

1120
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:28.320
And then Voyager was going to ride through to Earth.

1121
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:29.639
And that was how it was going to win.

1122
01:07:29.699 --> 01:07:33.780
All right, well, you know, that's kind of what happens. did a cheaper version of that.

1123
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:37.679
I do think that's I think that's a pretty great visual, isn't it?

1124
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:39.119
With the Borg spear.

1125
01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:39.960
Far out.

1126
01:07:40.019 --> 01:07:47.639
I can't even talk with the with the Borg sphere blowing up and and Voyager kind of heading out of the explosion.

1127
01:07:47.699 --> 01:07:48.780
I think that is pretty awesome.

1128
01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:52.559
You know, my you know what my problem is, don't you?

1129
01:07:52.619 --> 01:07:55.679
It's TS9, right?

1130
01:07:55.739 --> 01:08:05.820
Which was so good, uh, longtime arcs dealing with consequences and leaning into the interesting parts of the characters and the situation.

1131
01:08:05.820 --> 01:08:08.340
Well, this show really doesn't do none of that.

1132
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:13.920
But there's so much it could do and there's so much it could do with them going back to work.

1133
01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:19.560
And that last shot of Voyager, heading towards the bloody earth.

1134
01:08:19.619 --> 01:08:22.680
And I'm like, I just, I want to know everything that comes next.

1135
01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:23.760
Yeah.

1136
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:27.840
You know, and not in a, oh, leave him wanting more sort of way.

1137
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:29.819
In a, you didn't give me anything.

1138
01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:31.979
No, I think it has to be that.

1139
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:34.979
Holy crap, did you want these people to write?

1140
01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:43.560
you want to find out from the people who brought you episodes like human era, how everyone ended up living their lives on earth?

1141
01:08:43.619 --> 01:08:46.199
I think it's best left to a start.

1142
01:08:46.260 --> 01:08:53.880
Well, don't buy that because in series 4, when they make contact with Earth, they do, like the whole half the episode leaves over it.

1143
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:56.880
And it's Janeway learning about Mark moving on.

1144
01:08:56.939 --> 01:09:01.319
It's Torres and Chakotay learning about the marquee being gone.

1145
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:02.880
Is that I of the Needle?

1146
01:09:02.939 --> 01:09:03.840
can do it.

1147
01:09:03.899 --> 01:09:08.220
No, it's, it's the 1st one with the Hirogen, where they get the Hirogen.

1148
01:09:08.579 --> 01:09:10.199
It's like the concepts.

1149
01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:13.500
So they can so they can make so they can get letters from Earth.

1150
01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:15.239
Or they start learning.

1151
01:09:15.300 --> 01:09:17.760
So it's not that they can't do it.

1152
01:09:17.819 --> 01:09:19.920
It's they choose not to do it.

1153
01:09:19.979 --> 01:09:22.680
And here, you know, like they could have chosen.

1154
01:09:22.859 --> 01:09:25.140
Look, they chose to do this sort of Borg thing and whatever.

1155
01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:41.819
And there is a way of doing it, of making the show about the characters while still being a Star Trek episode, while leaning into the characters more, because there's, like, they haven't been super successful over the 7 seasons defining the characters in their relationships.

1156
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:47.100
And that's always been kind of window dressing to this week's space problem.

1157
01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:52.920
So maybe they could, we could have had more of the letters from home thing and more of the pathfinder stuff.

1158
01:09:52.979 --> 01:09:55.920
We get in Paris, don't we?

1159
01:09:55.979 --> 01:10:01.619
We get Admiral Paris, we do get Barclay earlier on, but they're so little.

1160
01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:05.939
Like I said, one of the best ever scenes is when Harry Kim's mum turns up and starts having to go him.

1161
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.220
She goes, she goes, put Janeway onto me.

1162
01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:09.720
I'll talk to her about your promotion.

1163
01:10:09.779 --> 01:10:11.460
When he was getting fat.

1164
01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:18.180
I think she goes, have you been practising your clarinet, Harry?

1165
01:10:18.539 --> 01:10:20.340
He's like, yeah.

1166
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:21.479
Every other week.

1167
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:23.340
I'm the Riker clone on this show, remember?

1168
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:26.100
I think plays the saxophone later, doesn't he?

1169
01:10:26.220 --> 01:10:32.880
Because the clarinet... a minute ago between 7 and Shakotay, where she's like, I'm defining the parameters of our relationship.

1170
01:10:32.939 --> 01:10:36.239
I'm not getting close to you because one of us is going to die.

1171
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:37.079
Oh, good God.

1172
01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:38.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1173
01:10:38.100 --> 01:10:41.939
I mean, it's the same thing, but it's okay for 7 to do that.

1174
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:56.159
It's kind of boring and played for her to do that for her to discover that, you know, that you go into a relationship and that it ends in some way and that's heartbroken for anyone who's still alive, you know, like that's a thing.

1175
01:10:56.279 --> 01:11:03.840
But it's just Janeway being an older woman kind of going, yes, 2 of my friends have died and one is very sick and you kind of think, Jesus Christ.

1176
01:11:04.739 --> 01:11:06.600
So what?

1177
01:11:06.659 --> 01:11:09.300
You know, like we just live with it.

1178
01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:10.260
The rest of us do.

1179
01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:12.180
They should say, we shouldn't listen to her.

1180
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:15.060
Another version of me turns up every other week.

1181
01:11:18.300 --> 01:11:21.180
I did love the sentiment of here.

1182
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:27.899
There's a couple of bits in this 2nd half where I really liked how they were talking about being a family avoyager.

1183
01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:30.359
They say, don't they?

1184
01:11:30.420 --> 01:11:33.180
Bringing up the child on Voyager, would that be such a bad thing?

1185
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:34.140
We've gone a family here.

1186
01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:35.460
We've got a home here.

1187
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:37.560
We've developed a relationship.

1188
01:11:37.619 --> 01:11:38.220
I like that.

1189
01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:40.560
And I do like the bit where Harry says the same thing.

1190
01:11:40.619 --> 01:11:43.680
He gets he gets the big sort of hero speech.

1191
01:11:43.739 --> 01:11:46.680
Which he doesn't surprise me that they gave him to.

1192
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:49.140
But look at that.

1193
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:50.579
Look at the look at that.

1194
01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:55.199
It's the armour going on the on Voyager. looks so good.

1195
01:11:55.260 --> 01:11:58.500
If she don't say much, does she, Alex?

1196
01:11:58.560 --> 01:12:00.000
I didn't have the same name.

1197
01:12:00.060 --> 01:12:01.920
Yeah, she does very sinister.

1198
01:12:01.979 --> 01:12:02.520
Yeah.

1199
01:12:02.579 --> 01:12:04.920
She turned up in a big finish audio, you know.

1200
01:12:04.979 --> 01:12:06.000
She was pretty good.

1201
01:12:06.060 --> 01:12:07.020
Yeah.

1202
01:12:07.079 --> 01:12:10.199
She strode between Star Trek and Doctor Who.

1203
01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:13.199
So a few people, well, in fact, lots of people do.

1204
01:12:14.579 --> 01:12:17.819
Why are they in this sort of gaseous area?

1205
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:22.739
Well, it's an ambular where the where the transwarp thing is.

1206
01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:26.220
I don't know, I don't believe we've been in a nebula before in Voyager, you know?

1207
01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:28.500
No, I don't think they've ever had a nebula on the show.

1208
01:12:28.979 --> 01:12:33.899
I wonder if there's coffee in this nebula. surprised, you know, there wasn't an anomaly in this.

1209
01:12:33.960 --> 01:12:36.060
That was sports kind of normally.

1210
01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:38.039
It's sort of an anomaly, isn't it?

1211
01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:44.100
If you, yeah, Chewbox behind a tactical console again, back with the logs.

1212
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:50.699
No, he's reporting on the armour integrity, which is a fresh new departure for him instead of the shield. integrity.

1213
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:52.739
He's having a big week.

1214
01:12:54.180 --> 01:12:59.760
But like, do you remember when destroying a Borg cube was like the toughest thing ever?

1215
01:12:59.819 --> 01:13:02.699
Yeah, we have to use future things.

1216
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:04.560
We have to use fewer days.

1217
01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:06.840
We can just blow them up 10 a penny, you know?

1218
01:13:07.380 --> 01:13:09.899
But how are they scary now?

1219
01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:13.079
Well, they don't have to be scary because we've never seen them again.

1220
01:13:13.140 --> 01:13:14.340
This is it for the Borg.

1221
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:15.479
Say goodbye to the board.

1222
01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:16.739
We will be seeing them again.

1223
01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:18.420
We're going to see them in Enterprise in a couple of seasons.

1224
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:20.039
Yeah, but yes.

1225
01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:22.260
And then we're going to see them again in Picard.

1226
01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:23.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1227
01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:28.739
But that'll be a long time away, and they do want to join the Federation, so they're not really that scary by that point.

1228
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:29.819
Doesn't this look good?

1229
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:33.899
Do you remember those scenes in Picard series one on the ball ship?

1230
01:13:34.140 --> 01:13:36.779
Oh, they went on forever, didn't they?

1231
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:37.500
They did.

1232
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:44.939
They did have some pacing issues in that 1st series and maybe in the 2nd series as well, to be honest, but I still really like them.

1233
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:53.579
I kind of wish this, like, you know, this ball city, you know, it's like, you know, they go along and there's the ball having a party, you know, and this is where they all live and this is where they have some fun.

1234
01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:54.779
No, it's not.

1235
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:55.319
It's there.

1236
01:13:55.380 --> 01:13:57.180
It's their Transwarp pub.

1237
01:13:57.239 --> 01:13:58.560
We must have had this before.

1238
01:13:58.619 --> 01:14:00.359
So this is...

1239
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:01.380
This is how they...

1240
01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:03.180
It's a bit like the Iconian gateway, yeah.

1241
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:08.399
This is how they send their cubes off into all the where is the space.

1242
01:14:08.460 --> 01:14:10.199
I kind of...

1243
01:14:10.260 --> 01:14:10.800
Yeah.

1244
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:12.479
You know, you're starving.

1245
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:13.920
Just a pretty face.

1246
01:14:17.039 --> 01:14:19.079
So this is a big deal.

1247
01:14:19.140 --> 01:14:32.159
This is how they travel all around the galaxy, because remember that, you know, when Picard met them originally, they were in on the other side of the galaxy and Q through.

1248
01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:33.420
Were they in the Delta Quadrant?

1249
01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:35.039
Well, no, I think...

1250
01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:37.020
No, I don't think we had quadrants back then.

1251
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:45.899
In fact, I think quadrants get established in the price, which is series three, I think, that with the two.

1252
01:14:46.619 --> 01:14:48.000
And I think the price is the one.

1253
01:14:48.060 --> 01:14:53.520
Is it the one where the 2 Ferengi end up in the Delta Quadrant?

1254
01:14:53.579 --> 01:14:54.479
It's a Troy episode.

1255
01:14:54.539 --> 01:14:56.159
I think it's a Troy episode, isn't it?

1256
01:14:56.220 --> 01:14:57.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1257
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:59.819
Yeah, I think so, because there's a beta Zoid negotiator.

1258
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:06.899
But I think the 2 Ferengi end up in the on the other side of the wormhole and then they appear here in series of which.

1259
01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:08.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1260
01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:09.119
No, series three.

1261
01:15:09.180 --> 01:15:10.199
It's called False Prophet.

1262
01:15:10.260 --> 01:15:10.979
False profits.

1263
01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:11.939
Okay, it's as late as that.

1264
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:16.439
They managed to pull the wall over this entire civilisation and turn themselves into gobs.

1265
01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:20.159
So this is really good. isn't it?

1266
01:15:20.220 --> 01:15:27.180
So they now know that they're going to use the transwarp conduit and that's how they're getting home.

1267
01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:29.760
And they immediately say, well, that's no good.

1268
01:15:29.819 --> 01:15:31.319
We should be destroying the conduit.

1269
01:15:31.380 --> 01:15:32.699
We can't use it, you know.

1270
01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:34.140
And it was the same with the caretaker.

1271
01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:37.199
I think it's really good And this is where the concept...

1272
01:15:37.260 --> 01:15:38.699
It's been a couple of moments, doesn't they?

1273
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:42.000
Where there's been the potential to get home at a cost.

1274
01:15:42.060 --> 01:15:43.380
Yeah.

1275
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:44.159
Yeah.

1276
01:15:44.220 --> 01:15:47.039
Okay, so maybe I didn't actually see this.

1277
01:15:47.100 --> 01:15:49.380
I probably phoned out of the episode at this point.

1278
01:15:49.979 --> 01:15:53.939
But yeah, there is a stark parallel with Caretaker here.

1279
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:55.680
Yeah, we know, it's the same decision.

1280
01:15:55.739 --> 01:15:56.880
It's literally the same decision.

1281
01:15:56.939 --> 01:16:03.539
Do we use the caretaker to get home and allow the Cazon to massacre all your kampa?

1282
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:06.659
Um, and here, it's a bit less.

1283
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:09.420
Well, we don't even know who the account private, it doesn't matter.

1284
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:15.000
In both cases, though, because the account was so boring because we're not really seeing any consequences to the ball.

1285
01:16:15.060 --> 01:16:16.380
But we do keep going.

1286
01:16:16.439 --> 01:16:17.460
We've seen the ball.

1287
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.779
It's all sort of a theoretical moral here, isn't it, rather than a...

1288
01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:27.479
But I mean, we've seen the Battle of Wolf 359 a couple of times and we've seen 1st contact and stuff like that.

1289
01:16:27.539 --> 01:16:31.140
Like, we know the Borg can invade us and this would stop them.

1290
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:37.619
But when they were chilling, you can just destroy them with a quick bolt these days. right.

1291
01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:40.500
Sorry, I'm being really mean.

1292
01:16:41.220 --> 01:16:43.260
See, here we go.

1293
01:16:43.319 --> 01:16:44.100
Here they are.

1294
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:48.840
Mulgrew acting and she's criticising.

1295
01:16:48.899 --> 01:17:03.119
She's calling it a mistake. you can't make that a mistake This was great where Mulgrew one, our Mulgrew is on a high ground and then the older mole grew...

1296
01:17:03.180 --> 01:17:05.579
Stops her in her tracks, doesn't she?

1297
01:17:05.699 --> 01:17:07.140
Yeah.

1298
01:17:07.260 --> 01:17:08.039
Yeah.

1299
01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:15.659
Oh, I'm glad we were we were spared the wedding of 7 and Chakotay. how they should have started it.

1300
01:17:18.420 --> 01:17:20.880
No, you know that.

1301
01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:21.479
Dreadful life.

1302
01:17:21.539 --> 01:17:24.899
There'd be awful like Borg style vows, wouldn't there?

1303
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:35.220
It could be it could be like the wedding of Troy and Riker in Nemesis with that shitty, shitty speech from Patrick Stewart that everyone likes.

1304
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:41.939
I now pair my cortical implant to you or something like that.

1305
01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:43.199
It'll be dreadful, wouldn't it?

1306
01:17:43.979 --> 01:17:46.859
Oh, she's got another one.

1307
01:17:46.859 --> 01:17:47.880
She's got another one.

1308
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:50.640
Go on, sorry.

1309
01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:52.979
Oh, okay, all right. 7 died.

1310
01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:53.699
Okay, then.

1311
01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:54.479
How about this one?

1312
01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:56.699
Tuvok has a neurological condition.

1313
01:17:57.420 --> 01:17:59.399
Oh, wait a 2nd.

1314
01:17:59.460 --> 01:18:00.000
Maybe I won't.

1315
01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:02.939
No, no, no, I'm still going to destroy the trats off.

1316
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:10.140
And if you don't, if you don't change the future, this is what Robert Duncan, McNeil's going to look like.

1317
01:18:10.140 --> 01:18:11.340
Bobby got bald.

1318
01:18:11.399 --> 01:18:15.960
Oh, he's groaning on the head.

1319
01:18:16.020 --> 01:18:16.800
What's going on?

1320
01:18:18.239 --> 01:18:20.819
Oh, so Tuvok's already suffering.

1321
01:18:20.939 --> 01:18:22.619
Well, that's why he lost.

1322
01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:26.520
That's why ECM could beat him at Calto and like that was clear at the time.

1323
01:18:26.579 --> 01:18:27.060
Yeah.

1324
01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:30.600
Had this been another show, they might have ceded this earlier in the season.

1325
01:18:30.659 --> 01:18:32.819
No, but I think that's a good time to seed it.

1326
01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:34.079
Like, they do seat it.

1327
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:40.380
Like, and it's interesting that it happens here at the same time as we're learning the consequences of it.

1328
01:18:40.439 --> 01:18:43.380
And I think it's ingenious too.

1329
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:47.760
Like, how can they possibly not be a cure.

1330
01:18:47.819 --> 01:18:52.140
Like they are in contact with Starfleet, there's a cure if it had been Vulcan.

1331
01:18:52.199 --> 01:18:59.159
And so her decision now is the decision to allow him to suffer from that neurological condition.

1332
01:18:59.220 --> 01:19:00.420
If she doesn't go home now.

1333
01:19:00.539 --> 01:19:03.180
You know, if she blows up the thing.

1334
01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:10.260
And so I think that's more interesting because she can't tell seven, but she can tell.

1335
01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:12.779
G-Wog just pulled out the spot quote.

1336
01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:14.340
The needs of the mini.

1337
01:19:14.399 --> 01:19:16.140
Yeah, and look at...

1338
01:19:16.140 --> 01:19:17.279
It looks very cool, isn't he?

1339
01:19:17.340 --> 01:19:17.939
Don't you think?

1340
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:18.960
I think jukebox's great.

1341
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:25.560
I think he's absolutely underused and should have been her confidant more like that should have been his wrong.

1342
01:19:25.619 --> 01:19:27.659
Now she's trying to get under 7 skin.

1343
01:19:28.260 --> 01:19:29.399
Get her on side.

1344
01:19:29.460 --> 01:19:31.739
Oh, I tell you what, she's a bit of a cow bag, isn't she?

1345
01:19:32.279 --> 01:19:35.520
But she's wrong and she admits she's wrong.

1346
01:19:35.579 --> 01:19:43.079
And I think there's a good thing that happens too. and we'll get there. that's why she chooses to sacrifice herself, doesn't she?

1347
01:19:43.619 --> 01:19:48.060
What they said was, in memory alpha was, they wanted to have their cake and eat it.

1348
01:19:48.180 --> 01:19:56.640
So they basically wanted Mulgrew to be able to sacrifice herself because they felt as if there should be some kind of cost to them getting home.

1349
01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:57.300
Yeah.

1350
01:19:57.300 --> 01:20:01.739
So they bring an extra Janeway in and just...

1351
01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:07.319
It's an alternative Janeway from a timeline that never winds up happening, which is that's my issue there.

1352
01:20:07.380 --> 01:20:09.060
Yeah, but it's still a Janeway.

1353
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:12.060
I mean, you know, we see her on screen and all of that sort of thing.

1354
01:20:12.119 --> 01:20:13.319
It doesn't matter how she gets there.

1355
01:20:13.380 --> 01:20:15.720
She's just a made-up character like all of them.

1356
01:20:15.779 --> 01:20:18.420
So it is, that's okay, I think.

1357
01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:26.279
Well, you know, like I think that the, that the, like Janeway killing herself in deadlock is pretty damn awesome and that's only one episode.

1358
01:20:26.340 --> 01:20:28.199
That's a great moment.

1359
01:20:28.260 --> 01:20:29.220
A good word.

1360
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:29.640
Yeah.

1361
01:20:29.699 --> 01:20:31.560
I think that episode...

1362
01:20:31.680 --> 01:20:34.199
Because you think that the ship that's...

1363
01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:35.159
Sorry.

1364
01:20:35.220 --> 01:20:50.100
My point is, is in what you leave behind, I felt far more like when DeMar was killed storming the Dominion headquarters. and he's a secondary character on DS9. than I do with Janeway sacrificing herself at the end of this because...

1365
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:50.699
Where is that?

1366
01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:51.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1367
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:54.239
Oh, yeah, here we go.

1368
01:20:54.300 --> 01:20:56.819
This is where we're talking about the decision that she made 7 years ago.

1369
01:20:57.000 --> 01:20:58.619
Yeah.

1370
01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:03.420
So they are making it explicit now, just in case we didn't pay attention before, which clearly I did not.

1371
01:21:03.479 --> 01:21:04.140
I didn't.

1372
01:21:04.260 --> 01:21:09.479
And so this is where they all decide to make that decision, you know, and she's saying, I didn't know you.

1373
01:21:09.539 --> 01:21:14.640
You know, I didn't really understand what the decision, you know, what decision I was making.

1374
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:19.020
I don't think they need to be so clear about this is our home.

1375
01:21:19.140 --> 01:21:20.699
You are my family.

1376
01:21:20.760 --> 01:21:21.659
Like, we get it.

1377
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:22.920
We get it, right?

1378
01:21:22.979 --> 01:21:24.119
It's Star Trek.

1379
01:21:24.180 --> 01:21:27.720
It's always going to tell you rather than show you in this era, isn't it?

1380
01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:29.760
You know, like it doesn't do subtlety.

1381
01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:38.039
It's one of these fabulous moments where they go, you know, we're not going to do this dangerous mission unless everyone agrees.

1382
01:21:38.100 --> 01:21:40.920
And I always want one person to just go wrong.

1383
01:21:40.979 --> 01:21:41.880
Yeah, actually, fuck that.

1384
01:21:41.939 --> 01:21:42.779
Let's just go home.

1385
01:21:43.319 --> 01:21:47.819
We've talked about it before, but the one in the 37th is the worst, isn't it?

1386
01:21:47.939 --> 01:21:50.819
It's like, you know, all the people that choose to leave Voyager.

1387
01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:52.020
Go to the cargo bay.

1388
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:56.579
She's like, oh, how many people are going to be in there and we're like, no, we know it's going to be no one.

1389
01:21:57.720 --> 01:22:02.579
I just want there to be one crewman going, well, this is a bit awkward, isn't it?

1390
01:22:02.640 --> 01:22:08.699
I mean, you kind of do that in, you kind of do that in, in discovery at the end of series two, don't you?

1391
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.779
I mean, you don't have them saying, actually, fuck it, I'm not going into the future with this lady.

1392
01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:14.939
I've got this big implant on my head.

1393
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:16.020
I've got a girlfriend.

1394
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:16.979
I'm staying home.

1395
01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:26.340
I mean, they get the, they got the, um, get out clause in discovery where Georgia was in it because you can always be the dissenting, but the lower decks, you know, they could do it any episode.

1396
01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:29.880
There'd be someone there going, are you mad?

1397
01:22:29.939 --> 01:22:31.680
Take it on that fork?

1398
01:22:31.739 --> 01:22:32.699
Transwarp thing?

1399
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:33.899
No way.

1400
01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:35.340
Look how that's shot too.

1401
01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:48.119
That shot's really weird because there was a shot where they were all kind of in the corner of the shot having, you know, like we were looking at them having that agreement from a long distance away and then Janeway comes into shot and we see that that's her take on it.

1402
01:22:48.180 --> 01:22:50.880
And so this, she's taken up coffee again.

1403
01:22:50.939 --> 01:22:57.180
She stopped. and she's taken it up again and she's going to take up being idealistic again.

1404
01:22:57.239 --> 01:23:02.399
And I think it's, uh, yeah, you know, and again, it's also obvious.

1405
01:23:03.180 --> 01:23:13.319
Do you see what I'm saying about, obviously, you do, because I'm being quite clear about, like, just seeing the older episodes that deal with the same things doing it better.

1406
01:23:13.319 --> 01:23:14.039
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1407
01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:16.260
Because there's a bit coming up in a minute, right?

1408
01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:20.279
Which is pretty cool, which is Janeway falling the ball queen.

1409
01:23:20.340 --> 01:23:21.420
Yeah.

1410
01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:23.220
And she's like, well, I'm not really here.

1411
01:23:23.220 --> 01:23:26.279
So, you know, well, I did that in the Thor.

1412
01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:29.340
And I'll tell you what, it was a better ending when she said to me.

1413
01:23:29.340 --> 01:23:32.939
Michael McKean in it, you know, like it's a great episode. scared.

1414
01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:36.600
I know, you know, it was so good.

1415
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:42.779
I took frog this episode, I'm constantly going, oh, yeah, that episode was great.

1416
01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:45.539
I mean, Star Trek is...

1417
01:23:45.539 --> 01:23:47.640
Instead of saying this episode is great.

1418
01:23:47.699 --> 01:23:49.859
But I mean, Star Trek does do that.

1419
01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:55.319
Like it does, it has obviously been eating its own tale for some time.

1420
01:23:55.380 --> 01:23:58.439
I mean, what's... 90s track especially.

1421
01:23:58.500 --> 01:24:03.600
They got that TNG formula and then there were a lot of offshoots of the same kinds of stories.

1422
01:24:03.659 --> 01:24:10.500
Well, I mean, insurrection has bits of who watches the watches and it has Sorry, what now?

1423
01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:12.600
Yeah, Star Trek.

1424
01:24:12.600 --> 01:24:14.279
I don't remember that. film at all.

1425
01:24:15.060 --> 01:24:24.420
It's it's just a kind of a mishmash of various other Star Trek, the Next Generation episodes, and I mean, this is better than that.

1426
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:29.520
And this is, I mean, I do think the big crime is, let's redo timeless, only dumber.

1427
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:33.359
And that's, you know, like, that is kind of what...

1428
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:35.159
You summed it up perfectly in a line now.

1429
01:24:35.220 --> 01:24:35.760
Well done.

1430
01:24:35.819 --> 01:24:41.399
I say, Janeway's love of coffee has been my favourite character trait of hers throughout the entire run.

1431
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:43.619
Yeah, well, I love coffee too.

1432
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:45.600
Yeah, it's a thing that people do.

1433
01:24:45.659 --> 01:24:48.300
Yes, coffee and that nebula, Nathan.

1434
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:51.359
Do you remember the necklace?

1435
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.779
like, where's she goes into the missile and says to Nick, give me coffee.

1436
01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:57.600
And he's like, sorry, captain.

1437
01:24:57.659 --> 01:25:00.060
She goes, I don't care, you give me coffee.

1438
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:03.539
But look at this.

1439
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:06.899
And then she plays it in this really ambiguous way.

1440
01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:13.979
And like, I think there's sort of warmth there, but she does pull a bit of a face at some and...

1441
01:25:13.979 --> 01:25:18.180
Yeah, yeah, this, like I buy that.

1442
01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:22.079
I do think I do think she's characterising both characters well.

1443
01:25:22.140 --> 01:25:23.279
Yeah, yeah.

1444
01:25:23.340 --> 01:25:28.319
I just don't buy how it's all directed and put together.

1445
01:25:28.380 --> 01:25:30.060
It just takes me out of it.

1446
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:34.560
I'm very aware this is constructed and I know you're going to say this.

1447
01:25:34.619 --> 01:25:39.060
It's always constructed, Joe. I know, but I can actually buy into it normally.

1448
01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

1449
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:42.060
Look at that.

1450
01:25:42.119 --> 01:25:47.640
The artifice of the construction is very apparent. you know, Oh, there we go.

1451
01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:49.020
Back to 7 inch Kotay.

1452
01:25:49.079 --> 01:25:55.260
But I mean, this is just very much, you know, a show ticking off the boxes that it needs to tick off, I think.

1453
01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:59.220
Nathan, are we keeping things professional again today?

1454
01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:00.960
Yeah.

1455
01:26:02.579 --> 01:26:04.199
You know what?

1456
01:26:04.260 --> 01:26:09.239
You saying yuck to Star Trek romance is one of my greatest joys in life, honestly.

1457
01:26:11.279 --> 01:26:15.060
And in 90s trek, you're never out of examples, are you?

1458
01:26:16.500 --> 01:26:18.840
Oh, good grief.

1459
01:26:21.899 --> 01:26:27.239
No, I mean, they could have kept this going on for another season, but it would have been agonising.

1460
01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:27.899
No, no, no.

1461
01:26:27.899 --> 01:26:28.680
Yeah, yeah.

1462
01:26:28.739 --> 01:26:31.439
Like, they make the right decision to end it when it ends, I think.

1463
01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:40.560
And I'm glad that they do this because this is kind of standing in for character development because they weren't doing any of that, you know, for the run.

1464
01:26:40.619 --> 01:26:48.779
And it's kind of like it reminds us that these people's lives will change when they leave, um, you know, like when they leave.

1465
01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:50.039
Does this end here?

1466
01:26:50.039 --> 01:26:51.180
and that's this is the end of it.

1467
01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:52.619
What?

1468
01:26:52.680 --> 01:26:56.340
Is this literally the end of their almost relationship?

1469
01:26:56.399 --> 01:26:56.880
No, no, no.

1470
01:26:56.939 --> 01:26:57.899
Look, look at, look at them.

1471
01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:00.840
He convinces her that that's ridiculous.

1472
01:27:00.899 --> 01:27:02.819
But they do talk, I think.

1473
01:27:02.880 --> 01:27:08.399
Don't they get to talk about their their future, like what they're going to do.

1474
01:27:09.060 --> 01:27:12.239
But then in Picard, is this just all ignored?

1475
01:27:12.300 --> 01:27:13.500
Yeah, yeah.

1476
01:27:13.560 --> 01:27:14.039
Yeah.

1477
01:27:14.100 --> 01:27:17.460
Oh, it's not me. someone not go to, you know, where's Chakotay?

1478
01:27:17.579 --> 01:27:18.119
She goes, who?

1479
01:27:18.180 --> 01:27:19.260
Yeah, I don't know.

1480
01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:20.279
I don't think we even mention it.

1481
01:27:20.640 --> 01:27:22.079
Okay.

1482
01:27:22.140 --> 01:27:24.060
He's probably dead by then.

1483
01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:26.039
Let's hope so.

1484
01:27:26.100 --> 01:27:27.600
Oh, no, he might turn up.

1485
01:27:27.659 --> 01:27:30.720
Don't worry, doesn't he turn up on good grief?

1486
01:27:30.779 --> 01:27:31.260
Prodigy.

1487
01:27:31.319 --> 01:27:32.939
That's Chakotay, isn't it?

1488
01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:34.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1489
01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:35.460
I think he's on his own.

1490
01:27:35.699 --> 01:27:36.840
Chakotay.

1491
01:27:36.899 --> 01:27:37.800
I can't remember.

1492
01:27:37.859 --> 01:27:38.699
I can't remember.

1493
01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:41.579
I still haven't seen the last 2 episodes and I meant to do that.

1494
01:27:41.640 --> 01:27:46.859
I feel really bad about it because I was really enjoying it, but it's just another thing that I haven't...

1495
01:27:46.920 --> 01:27:49.560
Lower decks turning up...

1496
01:27:49.619 --> 01:27:50.640
Yep, yep, yep.

1497
01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:52.680
That happened this week.

1498
01:27:52.920 --> 01:27:56.939
Oh my god, so excited. can't wait to see that one.

1499
01:27:57.000 --> 01:27:58.920
Oh, sorry, back to end games.

1500
01:27:58.979 --> 01:27:59.579
Yeah.

1501
01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:08.460
Yeah, this is, this is, uh, uh, kind of cheesy scene, isn't it?

1502
01:28:08.520 --> 01:28:09.840
It's so kind of terrible.

1503
01:28:09.899 --> 01:28:13.560
And they all are, every scene between this pair.

1504
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:19.500
No, but it is the way that the way that they write romance, I think is just terrible on this show.

1505
01:28:20.340 --> 01:28:23.100
Back to Torres's pregnancy.

1506
01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:28.439
Oh, that's right, because what they're going to do is have the epic and the intimate happening side by side.

1507
01:28:28.500 --> 01:28:31.319
We're taken on the ball and we're having a baby.

1508
01:28:31.380 --> 01:28:34.079
Well, I think it's we arrive high. have the baby.

1509
01:28:34.140 --> 01:28:36.180
Wait, they even do that scene?

1510
01:28:36.180 --> 01:28:37.079
In deadlock, though.

1511
01:28:37.140 --> 01:28:38.220
Oh, wait.

1512
01:28:38.279 --> 01:28:39.659
That's happening in deadlock as well.

1513
01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:44.460
Smack for Wildwood having the baby. really like this.

1514
01:28:45.359 --> 01:28:54.720
You know, that they were talking about there being a pool and engineering and people were betting on when the pregnancy would like when she would actually give birth.

1515
01:28:54.779 --> 01:29:07.619
And then in that scene, he inadvertently admits to her that he's in that pool and he's betting on like 1500 hours today and she loses her shit with him, which I think is really great.

1516
01:29:07.680 --> 01:29:08.819
I think that's really good.

1517
01:29:08.880 --> 01:29:12.180
Oh, I think that's the ultimate Tom Paris thing he could do.

1518
01:29:12.239 --> 01:29:16.619
This is actually quite a good scene for those 2 as well.

1519
01:29:16.859 --> 01:29:20.279
It's kind of like, so that's the last time we're going to see them together.

1520
01:29:21.659 --> 01:29:25.319
Well, he kisses her and he touches touches her stomach.

1521
01:29:25.380 --> 01:29:25.920
Just the baby.

1522
01:29:25.979 --> 01:29:27.420
Yeah, because the baby's there.

1523
01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:28.680
You know why it's good, don't you?

1524
01:29:28.739 --> 01:29:29.699
Because he's not actually saying anything.

1525
01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:31.199
No, he's not acting too much.

1526
01:29:31.260 --> 01:29:35.039
But it's also that sort of thing where she tells him to go.

1527
01:29:35.100 --> 01:29:37.560
I'll be here with the doctor, the doctor's a good guy.

1528
01:29:37.619 --> 01:29:44.939
You know, like, I've got to be at the ship when we're there for the final scene. doing the reaction shots.

1529
01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:50.699
I would like to say that, even though I do criticise the acting of some of the Voyager crew.

1530
01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:54.000
I do think there's an awful lot of charisma in this cast, you know.

1531
01:29:54.479 --> 01:30:01.800
And I have said to you on previous episodes, I actually think as a whole, I prefer this cast to THE.

1532
01:30:01.859 --> 01:30:05.760
Yeah, and I think, you know, they'd had a couple of goes at it by this point.

1533
01:30:05.819 --> 01:30:07.140
So I can understand that.

1534
01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:11.819
It's the writing that often lets me down.

1535
01:30:11.880 --> 01:30:12.300
Yeah.

1536
01:30:12.359 --> 01:30:12.840
Oh, yeah.

1537
01:30:12.899 --> 01:30:13.619
No, me too.

1538
01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:15.899
And you know, here we go.

1539
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:19.680
So here's Janeway doing her the Thor trick now.

1540
01:30:19.739 --> 01:30:23.640
So she's she's a virtual older Janeway, taking on the ball queen.

1541
01:30:23.699 --> 01:30:27.359
Yeah, but that's...

1542
01:30:27.359 --> 01:30:28.859
That's not how it ends up, though.

1543
01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:30.960
Like, we don't just stop her.

1544
01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:31.380
Excuse me.

1545
01:30:31.439 --> 01:30:32.579
Spoilers.

1546
01:30:32.640 --> 01:30:33.960
When you say she's not flirting with her.

1547
01:30:34.020 --> 01:30:36.479
She's walking around there, checking her out this very second.

1548
01:30:36.539 --> 01:30:38.039
No, she's looking at a bum.

1549
01:30:38.100 --> 01:30:38.699
Yep, yep.

1550
01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:42.539
Captain Janeway, my God.

1551
01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:44.220
You've got better with age.

1552
01:30:44.279 --> 01:30:45.960
I think she kind of has.

1553
01:30:46.020 --> 01:30:52.260
It is pretty good that she's the only one who doesn't just look absurd in those future scenes.

1554
01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:58.739
I do, do you know, I like the lighting in these scenes, you know, this sort of green lighting.

1555
01:30:58.859 --> 01:31:00.300
Yeah, well, yeah.

1556
01:31:02.279 --> 01:31:05.699
You're the one who always talks about the flat lighting in the 90s, all right?

1557
01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:07.079
They giving a bit of atmosphere, yeah?

1558
01:31:07.140 --> 01:31:07.800
No, that's true.

1559
01:31:07.859 --> 01:31:13.199
And there's practical lighting and stuff and things moving around. got the strobe lighting in there as well, which is quite effective.

1560
01:31:13.260 --> 01:31:14.760
Yeah, it's like a disco.

1561
01:31:14.819 --> 01:31:17.460
It's like...

1562
01:31:17.460 --> 01:31:19.260
Actually, it is, isn't it?

1563
01:31:19.319 --> 01:31:21.539
Oh, no, that dreadful episode.

1564
01:31:21.600 --> 01:31:22.199
Do you remember?

1565
01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:27.180
I was convinced that was Marina Surtis as the villain in that, you know.

1566
01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:28.380
This is really great.

1567
01:31:30.180 --> 01:31:32.279
Okay, what's current now?

1568
01:31:32.399 --> 01:31:32.939
left the playoffs.

1569
01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:35.399
Yeah, so she's threatening her.

1570
01:31:35.460 --> 01:31:44.699
Um, but doesn't, ah, yes, she's trying to convince them, isn't she, that she's betraying them for their own good.

1571
01:31:44.760 --> 01:31:46.739
I'm betraying them to get them home.

1572
01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:48.659
Yeah, and they don't destroy you.

1573
01:31:48.779 --> 01:31:52.979
No, what's interesting is that we actually don't know at this point what what's true.

1574
01:31:53.039 --> 01:32:02.760
I mean, I think that the way that the acting has worked is it's definitely saying that Admiral Janeway was telling Captain Janeway the truth before leaving, but then she comes here.

1575
01:32:02.819 --> 01:32:06.000
We don't know what the plan is, we're not privy to it.

1576
01:32:06.060 --> 01:32:12.960
And so she's saying the same thing that she was saying to Janeway, but saying, but my decision is different.

1577
01:32:13.020 --> 01:32:18.119
They have to come home and I know we're not going to be able to destroy the transwarp conduit.

1578
01:32:18.180 --> 01:32:27.420
And we think that she's kind of defeated when she's brought on board by the queen, but in fact, that was the plan all along.

1579
01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:32.880
And I get that there's ambiguity here, but I think we kind of know what's going on.

1580
01:32:32.939 --> 01:32:37.560
No, I think we know, but I do, like I did have for a little minute because I couldn't really remember how this ended.

1581
01:32:37.619 --> 01:32:40.979
I thought this is actually a bit cleverer than I was expecting.

1582
01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:54.180
It was a little bit like, you know, the moment in state of flux where it turns out Jakotay is not just a big moron who's been played by Sesker all along that he actually had a plan and it's the same thing here.

1583
01:32:54.239 --> 01:32:55.739
Oh my god.

1584
01:32:55.800 --> 01:32:57.420
Why did you have to bring up Cesca?

1585
01:32:57.720 --> 01:32:59.159
What?

1586
01:32:59.159 --> 01:33:01.739
The whole finale should have been about Sesca.

1587
01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:03.779
Back back from the dead.

1588
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:08.760
We did have worst case scenario at the end of series three.

1589
01:33:09.779 --> 01:33:18.119
Oh, we had shattered in series 7, where he pops back to all... a better finale than this personally, but the way he pops back.

1590
01:33:18.180 --> 01:33:19.859
See, Cesco, he goes to caretaker.

1591
01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:22.619
Back to when the ball 1st appeared.

1592
01:33:22.680 --> 01:33:23.279
Incredible.

1593
01:33:23.340 --> 01:33:24.960
So I kind of get what you're saying.

1594
01:33:25.020 --> 01:33:34.140
This episode's been constructed, so there's all those arguments between the 2 Janeways. effectively setting up this betrayal in inverted commerce.

1595
01:33:34.199 --> 01:33:36.239
Which then...

1596
01:33:36.239 --> 01:33:37.020
That's what is happening now.

1597
01:33:37.079 --> 01:33:42.840
So she's being really beamed on board because she's been detected and but that was part of the plan all along.

1598
01:33:43.079 --> 01:33:48.600
So maybe there's a little more thought in this than I'm perhaps giving it credit for.

1599
01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:51.479
Like, I don't know what she's fucking brought on board.

1600
01:33:51.539 --> 01:34:01.439
I can't remember, but it's a techno babble thing that destroys the entirety of the thing. in about 30 seconds by not doing anything really much more than...

1601
01:34:01.500 --> 01:34:02.520
She's from the future, I remember.

1602
01:34:02.579 --> 01:34:03.899
So they may have had developments.

1603
01:34:03.960 --> 01:34:06.060
They may have had, you know, in bringing down the baulk.

1604
01:34:06.119 --> 01:34:06.720
Yep.

1605
01:34:06.720 --> 01:34:06.960
Yep.

1606
01:34:07.020 --> 01:34:09.479
Poison nail polish or something and she just...

1607
01:34:09.479 --> 01:34:10.920
Anti-plastic, I believe it's called.

1608
01:34:10.979 --> 01:34:11.579
Plastic.

1609
01:34:11.640 --> 01:34:12.060
Yeah, yeah.

1610
01:34:12.119 --> 01:34:13.260
Just whatever.

1611
01:34:14.340 --> 01:34:16.439
Well, I do love...

1612
01:34:16.500 --> 01:34:24.359
I mean, it's, um, the theatre of the moment where our arms start snapping off and things like this. is great.

1613
01:34:24.420 --> 01:34:25.920
It's crazy.

1614
01:34:29.159 --> 01:34:30.960
Oh, wow.

1615
01:34:31.020 --> 01:34:36.539
And I love how Margaret looked. got all of her face mangled up by Borg technology and nanaboxes.

1616
01:34:36.600 --> 01:34:38.399
Except that we've seen that.

1617
01:34:38.399 --> 01:34:39.060
Sparks flying.

1618
01:34:40.439 --> 01:34:43.920
Didn't we say that before at the end of series 6 or whatever?

1619
01:34:43.979 --> 01:34:45.119
Unimatrix zero.

1620
01:34:45.180 --> 01:34:46.859
Don't they let themselves get a simulated?

1621
01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:47.819
I watched that this week.

1622
01:34:47.880 --> 01:34:49.380
Honestly, it was terrible.

1623
01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:50.340
Yeah.

1624
01:34:50.399 --> 01:34:52.920
Must makeup's actually a little more subtle.

1625
01:34:53.520 --> 01:34:56.640
Yeah, you've infected us.

1626
01:34:56.699 --> 01:34:58.800
She's grabbing the set.

1627
01:34:58.859 --> 01:35:01.739
She's literally grabbing that set like her life's worth it, isn't it?

1628
01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:06.420
Oh, I'm going to make this moment count.

1629
01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:09.539
Voyager dashing down a tunnel there.

1630
01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:14.100
So, yeah, yeah, but I think that's really great and I'm glad that that's not ended.

1631
01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:16.260
Like we're still being pursued and stuff.

1632
01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:22.560
We're still gonna try and keep the excitement going until we reach the very end and, you know, like whatever.

1633
01:35:22.619 --> 01:35:23.100
Why not?

1634
01:35:23.159 --> 01:35:31.140
So, so I think the kind of the conclusion that we're coming to here is the most we could have hoped for was a big bang of an ending.

1635
01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:33.539
Yeah, like a big set piece.

1636
01:35:33.600 --> 01:35:35.640
I don't think it quite gets there.

1637
01:35:35.699 --> 01:35:39.000
You know, like Voyager has been better than this, as you say.

1638
01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:44.880
It's it's a mid-range Voyager episode. you know, which is a bit of a shame.

1639
01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:47.939
Should you be going out on a mid-range episode?

1640
01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:49.020
No, no.

1641
01:35:49.079 --> 01:35:51.180
I mean, there have been better episodes than this.

1642
01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:53.939
The last episode we watched State of Flux, I think, was better than this.

1643
01:35:54.000 --> 01:35:56.579
You know, this is okay.

1644
01:35:56.640 --> 01:35:59.880
But, oh, look, oh, ow.

1645
01:36:02.939 --> 01:36:05.520
She just tore it off like that guy.

1646
01:36:05.579 --> 01:36:06.899
That canyon ear guy.

1647
01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:07.439
I love that.

1648
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:11.579
We got to the end of Voyager on an episode that was okay.

1649
01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:12.840
We're okay with that.

1650
01:36:12.899 --> 01:36:13.680
Yeah.

1651
01:36:13.739 --> 01:36:15.359
Well, so what are you going to do?

1652
01:36:15.420 --> 01:36:22.859
You know, like, you know, in some ways, all good things is fun, but I didn't think it's a great episode.

1653
01:36:22.979 --> 01:36:25.260
You know, it's about a space. massive problem.

1654
01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:27.479
You got very angry in the 2nd 3rd of that one.

1655
01:36:27.539 --> 01:36:31.500
I'll tell you Yeah, it's just because it's a being space anomaly.

1656
01:36:31.560 --> 01:36:34.979
Naturally, we're just gonna do a stupid space anomaly and go out on that.

1657
01:36:35.039 --> 01:36:40.319
And that doesn't matter because we know that we're going to see them all in 18 months or something in the cinema, like, you know.

1658
01:36:40.380 --> 01:36:43.619
Well, reserve judgement on what you leave behind until we watch it.

1659
01:36:43.680 --> 01:36:47.159
Yeah, yeah, but I will cry, probably at least once.

1660
01:36:47.220 --> 01:36:51.659
What we'll say is that you cut and win and have a very strange engine.

1661
01:36:51.720 --> 01:36:52.500
No, that's stupid.

1662
01:36:52.619 --> 01:36:54.239
But, um, but yeah.

1663
01:36:54.359 --> 01:37:01.500
Yeah, you know, I would I would definitely say what you need behind has a greater sense of occasion.

1664
01:37:01.560 --> 01:37:02.699
Yeah, yeah.

1665
01:37:02.760 --> 01:37:04.020
But it's wrapping more up.

1666
01:37:04.079 --> 01:37:05.340
There's more going on.

1667
01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:07.920
Really, what we're doing is what, you know, we've got to get home.

1668
01:37:07.979 --> 01:37:08.579
We'll...

1669
01:37:08.579 --> 01:37:09.539
I needed 10 episodes.

1670
01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:12.239
They needed 10 episodes to get those characters wrapped up.

1671
01:37:12.300 --> 01:37:13.380
No, they didn't.

1672
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:14.939
I mean there's nothing to them.

1673
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:15.420
Oh, I see.

1674
01:37:15.539 --> 01:37:15.720
Right.

1675
01:37:15.779 --> 01:37:21.659
Oh, yeah, I think you're saying Voyager made the wrong decision by not spending 10 episodes on where the characters would end up.

1676
01:37:21.720 --> 01:37:23.039
What were they going to do?

1677
01:37:23.100 --> 01:37:24.300
Wrap up the ball, kids.

1678
01:37:24.359 --> 01:37:26.460
Wrap up Naomi Wildman in an episode.

1679
01:37:26.579 --> 01:37:29.340
I mean, you've got the best secondary cast.

1680
01:37:29.340 --> 01:37:31.199
Admiral Paris could have a whole episode.

1681
01:37:31.260 --> 01:37:31.979
There he is.

1682
01:37:32.039 --> 01:37:32.939
Yep, yeah.

1683
01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:44.039
It's very strange though, you know, because as they come through, You think, as soon as Admiral Paris appears on the screen, if they were in tune with their characters, then the shot would go straight to Paris.

1684
01:37:44.159 --> 01:37:45.479
Yeah, yeah.

1685
01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:49.079
And they wait until the end of the scene and then we just see him looking away a bit awkwardly.

1686
01:37:49.140 --> 01:37:51.899
And I'm like, yeah, you're kind of not focussing on the characters.

1687
01:37:51.960 --> 01:37:53.159
You're more focussed on the plot.

1688
01:37:53.220 --> 01:37:54.960
Well, on this set piece, I think.

1689
01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:59.159
And, you know, the set piece does look pretty great.

1690
01:37:59.279 --> 01:38:02.939
And we've changed time and brought his arm back to the future.

1691
01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:06.060
I think we went into this game.

1692
01:38:06.119 --> 01:38:11.880
Well, let's do some, let's do a last stab, lots of weird shit.

1693
01:38:11.939 --> 01:38:12.479
Yeah, yeah.

1694
01:38:12.539 --> 01:38:15.600
And then someone else went, well, should we put some character stuff in?

1695
01:38:15.659 --> 01:38:16.619
Well, yeah, you can have that as well.

1696
01:38:16.680 --> 01:38:18.300
Yeah, have a, but...

1697
01:38:18.300 --> 01:38:23.039
Mostly we'll buy hello to the cubes.

1698
01:38:23.100 --> 01:38:23.819
Yeah, yeah.

1699
01:38:23.880 --> 01:38:27.239
Oh, look, they're Federation Armada is there.

1700
01:38:27.300 --> 01:38:28.319
Oh, God.

1701
01:38:28.319 --> 01:38:29.579
They've got a little better.

1702
01:38:29.640 --> 01:38:32.159
They look a little less cartoony than they did in Disney's time.

1703
01:38:32.220 --> 01:38:33.779
Galaxy class ship there.

1704
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:38.579
Two years that, you know, I do love it when the galaxy class ships are in the battles, you know?

1705
01:38:39.420 --> 01:38:41.520
They blow up pretty well.

1706
01:38:41.579 --> 01:38:42.239
Excellent.

1707
01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:44.340
Well, the enterprise blew up.

1708
01:38:44.399 --> 01:38:45.659
If you think about the whole sphere.

1709
01:38:45.720 --> 01:38:49.079
I don't really think much of a sphere, you know, it's not quite as intimidating.

1710
01:38:49.140 --> 01:38:50.520
No, I like it.

1711
01:38:50.579 --> 01:38:55.199
But remember, remember, um, oh my god.

1712
01:38:55.260 --> 01:39:02.100
Is it the Corba might maneuver where they're attacked by various... geometric solids?

1713
01:39:02.220 --> 01:39:05.279
Like it's a sphere and a cube and stuff.

1714
01:39:05.340 --> 01:39:08.579
And there's the bulk sphere comes from 1st contact, obviously.

1715
01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:10.859
Um, yeah.

1716
01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:14.039
Yeah, well, they're little scout ships, the spheres.

1717
01:39:14.100 --> 01:39:17.340
They're hard to stack, you know, hard cargo.

1718
01:39:17.399 --> 01:39:19.560
There's no stakes to blow in this up, is that?

1719
01:39:19.619 --> 01:39:21.420
They're blowing these things up. doesn't mean anything.

1720
01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:23.039
Well, we got future tech.

1721
01:39:23.100 --> 01:39:25.500
We're allowed just for this episode blow the shit out of them.

1722
01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:27.539
Yeah, it looks cool.

1723
01:39:27.539 --> 01:39:28.979
Well, there you go.

1724
01:39:29.039 --> 01:39:29.880
What do you want?

1725
01:39:29.939 --> 01:39:30.539
What do you want?

1726
01:39:30.600 --> 01:39:31.619
You want it look boring?

1727
01:39:31.680 --> 01:39:32.880
It's already boring.

1728
01:39:32.939 --> 01:39:35.520
You may as well have interesting things to look at.

1729
01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:37.079
That's so great.

1730
01:39:37.199 --> 01:39:39.180
I have to say that this scene.

1731
01:39:39.300 --> 01:39:41.100
You've just summed up Voyager there.

1732
01:39:41.159 --> 01:39:44.039
It might be boring, got a leash, you've got interesting things to look at.

1733
01:39:44.100 --> 01:39:47.880
Well, that's very rare in Nighty Streak to have interesting things to look at.

1734
01:39:47.939 --> 01:39:50.699
I just can't get over how stunned they are.

1735
01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:53.100
So they're so stunned.

1736
01:39:53.159 --> 01:40:04.920
Like they can and like Janeway gets that next time we'll call ahead line, which is, you know, nothing, but she doesn't deliver it in a sort of normal kind of Janeway way.

1737
01:40:04.979 --> 01:40:07.380
She can still just barely believe where they are.

1738
01:40:07.979 --> 01:40:10.619
She's got says under a breath, isn't she?

1739
01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:11.100
We did it.

1740
01:40:11.159 --> 01:40:14.520
I thought like, yeah, it's a really good line reading.

1741
01:40:14.579 --> 01:40:15.000
Yeah.

1742
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:19.140
Can I just ask, I'm more stunned at Barclay's hair?

1743
01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:19.920
Is he wearing a rock?

1744
01:40:20.039 --> 01:40:20.939
I don't know.

1745
01:40:21.000 --> 01:40:23.159
Oh, look, the baby.

1746
01:40:23.220 --> 01:40:24.420
Holy crap.

1747
01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:26.340
That poor baby.

1748
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:32.220
It looks so much prettier than it did when it was CGI hanging in the air in the holiday.

1749
01:40:32.279 --> 01:40:36.779
Oh, you're all holding back tears, like, the 1st childhood, the 2nd childhood.

1750
01:40:36.779 --> 01:40:37.739
That's actually nice.

1751
01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:41.939
Yeah, 2nd child born on fire, yeah.

1752
01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:43.979
Plus that baby that never went anywhere.

1753
01:40:44.039 --> 01:40:44.760
What happened to the baby?

1754
01:40:44.819 --> 01:40:46.199
I don't know.

1755
01:40:46.260 --> 01:40:46.680
Do you know what?

1756
01:40:46.739 --> 01:40:52.859
One of my favourite joys is watching the background players, you know, there was a fellow at the back of the set there, smiling straight to camera.

1757
01:40:52.920 --> 01:40:54.239
He was so happy that baby was born.

1758
01:40:54.300 --> 01:40:55.199
I don't know who it was.

1759
01:40:55.560 --> 01:40:58.079
He obviously knows Paris pretty well.

1760
01:40:58.140 --> 01:40:59.340
What's our last line?

1761
01:40:59.460 --> 01:41:00.300
Take course for home.

1762
01:41:00.300 --> 01:41:02.220
That's not a bad lie.

1763
01:41:02.819 --> 01:41:06.060
And then this very boring final shot.

1764
01:41:06.180 --> 01:41:08.819
Yeah, it annoys me so much.

1765
01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:09.840
So boring.

1766
01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:11.159
All I want.

1767
01:41:11.279 --> 01:41:14.159
I know you're going to say it. they never could have done it justice.

1768
01:41:14.220 --> 01:41:19.079
All I want is is to deal with the fallout of what could have happened.

1769
01:41:19.140 --> 01:41:22.619
Like you've got ex-marquee members there.

1770
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:23.399
Terrorists.

1771
01:41:23.460 --> 01:41:26.460
You've got a Borg member of the crew.

1772
01:41:26.520 --> 01:41:28.859
Like, I know, but there's potential.

1773
01:41:28.920 --> 01:41:30.479
And this is the thing.

1774
01:41:30.539 --> 01:41:33.659
There's always this untapped potential. boring, though.

1775
01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:34.859
It would have been so boring.

1776
01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:36.779
We would have been going, where are the aliens?

1777
01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:38.699
Where are the space anomalies?

1778
01:41:38.760 --> 01:41:44.220
Where's, you know, I think they're right to leave it for Kurtzman to do a sequel series later.

1779
01:41:44.460 --> 01:42:00.479
Like, you know, in another 5 years, it'll be Star Trek Voyager again, and they'll all be fucking old, so we won't need to spend quite as much money on latex, and it will be more kind of fun and interesting than this production team could have done.

1780
01:42:00.539 --> 01:42:04.439
That it would have been boring because he's right as weren't up to the top.

1781
01:42:04.500 --> 01:42:05.460
But it could.

1782
01:42:05.460 --> 01:42:07.439
It could have been great.

1783
01:42:07.500 --> 01:42:08.279
Yeah.

1784
01:42:08.279 --> 01:42:11.340
Like, that's what you could say about a lot of Voyager.

1785
01:42:11.399 --> 01:42:12.840
It could be fantastic.

1786
01:42:12.899 --> 01:42:16.979
And what it was ultimately was passable television.

1787
01:42:17.039 --> 01:42:18.180
Yeah.

1788
01:42:18.239 --> 01:42:22.079
Yeah, well, you know, but sometimes it was very good possible.

1789
01:42:22.140 --> 01:42:23.220
Occasionally brilliant.

1790
01:42:23.340 --> 01:42:24.600
Occasionally brilliant.

1791
01:42:24.659 --> 01:42:25.439
Often.

1792
01:42:25.439 --> 01:42:27.300
Dreadful.

1793
01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:32.039
And more often than not possible.

1794
01:42:32.100 --> 01:42:32.579
Yeah.

1795
01:42:33.119 --> 01:42:34.859
Star Trek.

1796
01:42:34.920 --> 01:42:36.060
Do you know what I mean?

1797
01:42:36.119 --> 01:42:37.920
It's not really prestige TV.

1798
01:42:37.979 --> 01:42:44.819
Often it's really terrible, but, um, you know, like I thought that that was okay that did the job that was required of it.

1799
01:42:44.939 --> 01:42:52.979
It's a shame that they couldn't go out on more of a high, on more of a good episode, on a, you know, dark frontier or a real life.

1800
01:42:53.039 --> 01:43:00.359
But I think that they basically did the job that they were there to do and that's probably what we should have expected.

1801
01:43:00.600 --> 01:43:02.819
I think you're mad.

1802
01:43:03.420 --> 01:43:10.619
It's indulgent, unambitious, and I actually found it a bit boring. as well.

1803
01:43:10.920 --> 01:43:13.979
Not how I would have seen out this show.

1804
01:43:14.039 --> 01:43:15.779
It was better than I remembered.

1805
01:43:15.899 --> 01:43:18.479
And it was worse than I remember.

1806
01:43:24.840 --> 01:43:41.159
So we've reached the end of a very long episode of Untitled Star Trek Project, and it is our custom at this point to choose an episode for us to watch next time, and it's my turn on the randomiser.

1807
01:43:41.220 --> 01:43:42.000
Yeah.

1808
01:43:42.119 --> 01:43:43.979
I feel like we haven't done this for ages.

1809
01:43:44.039 --> 01:43:45.060
It's been a couple of weeks.

1810
01:43:45.119 --> 01:43:45.899
That's a bit.

1811
01:43:45.960 --> 01:43:46.739
Yeah, it has been a bit.

1812
01:43:46.800 --> 01:43:51.720
I've not got excited about watching my next Star Trek episode because I've been watching Endgame for the last 2 weeks.

1813
01:43:54.479 --> 01:43:57.960
So how are you choosing to devise this this week?

1814
01:43:58.020 --> 01:43:59.399
Okay, well, don't get too excited.

1815
01:43:59.460 --> 01:44:09.840
So I've been doing a little bit of work on the website and it's come to my attention that one of 90s trek has a disproportionately low number of episodes that we have watched.

1816
01:44:09.899 --> 01:44:17.579
And so I know, I'm afraid that we are going next week to watch an episode of Enterprise.

1817
01:44:17.640 --> 01:44:19.439
Fair enough.

1818
01:44:19.439 --> 01:44:23.819
From endgame to enterprise. something good at some point.

1819
01:44:23.880 --> 01:44:24.600
All right.

1820
01:44:24.600 --> 01:44:25.680
The only way is up.

1821
01:44:25.979 --> 01:44:28.020
I don't know about that.

1822
01:44:28.079 --> 01:44:29.880
Okay, all right.

1823
01:44:29.939 --> 01:44:33.539
So I have my finger poised on the button and I'm going to press it.

1824
01:44:33.659 --> 01:44:37.319
Okay, this is season four, episode 12.

1825
01:44:38.640 --> 01:44:43.319
Babel one. have no idea what that's about.

1826
01:44:43.380 --> 01:45:04.199
So, uh, my encyclopaedic knowledge of Star Trek enterprise and my ability to edit out the 5 minutes it just took me to look that up on memory alpha and enables me to say that it's Babel one is obviously a reference to Journey to Babel from the original series and it is...

1827
01:45:04.260 --> 01:45:04.920
Yep.

1828
01:45:04.979 --> 01:45:06.060
Yeah, that'd be something.

1829
01:45:06.119 --> 01:45:07.979
Anyway, it's not on enterprise.

1830
01:45:08.039 --> 01:45:09.420
It is...

1831
01:45:09.420 --> 01:45:15.479
I think it's quite telling, Nathan, you know, that you and I, neither of us new, well, the episode of Enterprise or probably any of these will be.

1832
01:45:15.539 --> 01:45:21.420
No, well, I don't, I mean, I haven't watched all of Enterprise, and I've certainly watched, I think maybe none of series four.

1833
01:45:21.539 --> 01:45:24.539
Now, our rule is just to reiterate.

1834
01:45:24.600 --> 01:45:32.460
If we get a two-parter, like one episode of a two-parter, we watch both, like we did for the most recent Deep Space 9 episode.

1835
01:45:32.520 --> 01:45:37.560
If it's one of a trilogy, we don't watch all 3 because that would just be too long.

1836
01:45:37.619 --> 01:45:40.319
But I think I'm going to press the button on this.

1837
01:45:40.380 --> 01:45:44.579
This is called the Romulan interference arc and I just don't care.

1838
01:45:44.699 --> 01:45:50.460
The unfortunate thing about season 4 is there's about 5 trilogies in there.

1839
01:45:50.520 --> 01:45:50.819
Yeah.

1840
01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:55.020
But I do want us to do 4 at some point because it's an interesting year.

1841
01:45:55.079 --> 01:45:57.119
Yeah, yeah, I'd like to do that too.

1842
01:45:57.180 --> 01:45:59.159
All right, let's try another one.

1843
01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:01.920
Acquisition.

1844
01:46:01.979 --> 01:46:03.960
Series one, episode 19.

1845
01:46:04.140 --> 01:46:08.159
Oh, God, it's the Ferengi episode. thought it might be.

1846
01:46:08.220 --> 01:46:10.739
It's really awful.

1847
01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:16.439
How did they do the Ferengi when Picard makes 1st contact with the Ferengi in the last outpost.

1848
01:46:16.500 --> 01:46:17.579
I don't know.

1849
01:46:17.640 --> 01:46:21.180
How do they do the Borg when Picard 1st encounters the Borg?

1850
01:46:21.840 --> 01:46:24.300
They want to have their cake and eat it as usual.

1851
01:46:24.359 --> 01:46:24.840
Yeah.

1852
01:46:24.899 --> 01:46:26.460
Let's not come up with anything new.

1853
01:46:26.579 --> 01:46:27.060
Roll it again.

1854
01:46:27.119 --> 01:46:27.479
All right.

1855
01:46:27.779 --> 01:46:31.199
Series one, episode 6, Terra Nova.

1856
01:46:31.260 --> 01:46:41.640
I believe that might be the one episode that's about the character whose name I can never remember because there's no episodes about him.

1857
01:46:41.699 --> 01:46:43.140
Is that his name?

1858
01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:43.800
Meriweather?

1859
01:46:43.859 --> 01:46:44.399
Mayweather.

1860
01:46:44.460 --> 01:46:46.560
I believe one of that episode.

1861
01:46:46.619 --> 01:46:47.579
Oh, okay.

1862
01:46:47.640 --> 01:46:51.239
Terra Nova is Latin for New Earth, obviously.

1863
01:46:51.659 --> 01:46:56.039
I mean, I can tell you now that Jama gave it 2 stars out of four.

1864
01:46:56.100 --> 01:46:57.779
That's about all I can tell you about it.

1865
01:46:57.840 --> 01:46:59.100
Yeah, I don't know.

1866
01:46:59.220 --> 01:47:01.319
Nathan, I think it sounds really boring.

1867
01:47:01.380 --> 01:47:01.979
Can you try again?

1868
01:47:02.100 --> 01:47:03.779
Yeah, yeah.

1869
01:47:03.779 --> 01:47:06.300
I want to try and get a really good episode of Enterprise.

1870
01:47:06.359 --> 01:47:07.739
I realise the odds are against us.

1871
01:47:07.800 --> 01:47:08.699
All right.

1872
01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:09.539
I'm gonna try it again.

1873
01:47:09.659 --> 01:47:12.720
We can do this all night.

1874
01:47:12.779 --> 01:47:13.380
This will be the one.

1875
01:47:13.439 --> 01:47:14.220
Doesn't have to be.

1876
01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:19.619
Series three, episode 17 hatchery.

1877
01:47:20.340 --> 01:47:22.920
You did this one last time.

1878
01:47:22.979 --> 01:47:26.520
This is the one where Archer gets infected by the eggs.

1879
01:47:26.579 --> 01:47:28.560
He turns into the mother of this alien.

1880
01:47:28.619 --> 01:47:31.560
It's probably the worst episode of series three.

1881
01:47:31.619 --> 01:47:32.220
Okay.

1882
01:47:32.279 --> 01:47:34.140
Well, you just press that button one more time, please.

1883
01:47:34.439 --> 01:47:38.579
Series two, episode 5, a night in Sick Bay.

1884
01:47:38.699 --> 01:47:40.619
Oh, let's do it.

1885
01:47:40.680 --> 01:47:43.560
Jama gives this one star out of four.

1886
01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:44.880
But he hates fun.

1887
01:47:44.939 --> 01:47:46.859
It's important to remember that he hates fun.

1888
01:47:46.920 --> 01:47:47.340
That's true.

1889
01:47:47.460 --> 01:47:49.079
Do you know what the premise of this is?

1890
01:47:49.319 --> 01:47:53.340
Is Porthos sick and he spends a night in Sick Bay?

1891
01:47:53.399 --> 01:47:54.300
Yes.

1892
01:47:54.359 --> 01:47:54.840
Yeah.

1893
01:47:54.899 --> 01:47:58.859
I think I have a vague memory, not of having seen it, but of having heard of the premise.

1894
01:48:00.060 --> 01:48:03.960
I remember it was agonisingly terrible.

1895
01:48:05.819 --> 01:48:07.739
Does he get better?

1896
01:48:07.739 --> 01:48:10.560
Because I'm not watching it if he's dead by the end of it.

1897
01:48:10.560 --> 01:48:12.300
Yeah, he makes it through the whole room.

1898
01:48:12.420 --> 01:48:13.020
Okay, all right.

1899
01:48:13.079 --> 01:48:13.619
He's fine.

1900
01:48:13.680 --> 01:48:14.100
He's fine.

1901
01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:14.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1902
01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:20.279
It's all this sort of comedy featuring Captain Archer and flocks and the dog.

1903
01:48:20.460 --> 01:48:25.680
Oh, you know, well, I think it's written by Brannan Braga and Rick Burnham.

1904
01:48:25.739 --> 01:48:33.239
Well, it's hard to get away from as written by Brannan Braga and Rick Berman, frankly, if we're going to do Enterprise.

1905
01:48:33.300 --> 01:48:34.739
And...

1906
01:48:34.800 --> 01:48:44.220
And can I just say that Billingsley is the MVP of that entire cast and the best one of comedy?

1907
01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:47.340
So I'm I'm cautiously optimistic.

1908
01:48:48.600 --> 01:48:50.460
You're brave.

1909
01:49:00.659 --> 01:49:05.760
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1910
01:49:05.819 --> 01:49:11.460
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1911
01:49:11.520 --> 01:49:16.439
Our podcast artwork is by Caleb Cisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1912
01:49:16.500 --> 01:49:21.600
This episode was recorded on the 3rd of October 2022 and released on the 7th of October.

1913
01:49:21.659 --> 01:49:26.460
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise, a night in Sick Bay.

1914
01:49:44.520 --> 01:49:48.000
What do you think, I reckon I can do an out for that?

1915
01:49:48.060 --> 01:49:49.979
Okay, I'm so sorry.

1916
01:49:50.039 --> 01:49:51.239
I was so mean...

1917
01:49:51.300 --> 01:49:51.720
No, no, no.

1918
01:49:51.779 --> 01:49:52.140
That was good.

1919
01:49:52.199 --> 01:49:53.939
That was good. exactly good.

1920
01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:55.920
No, no, I agree with you.

1921
01:49:55.979 --> 01:49:58.260
I think it's kind of... nice things.

1922
01:49:58.319 --> 01:49:59.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1923
01:49:59.340 --> 01:50:03.300
But I don't think it's quite as terrible as everyone thinks, but it is pretty shared.

1924
01:50:04.260 --> 01:50:08.939
I'm surprised that there was an attempt to do anything, you know.

1925
01:50:09.239 --> 01:50:10.680
Okay.

1926
01:50:10.739 --> 01:50:12.060
I'm going to pull up.

1927
01:50:12.119 --> 01:50:13.859
Oh, do you know what I wanted to say?

1928
01:50:13.920 --> 01:50:21.539
God damn it, I completely forgot, but, um, It's like the um, the 2 sort of climactic moments.

1929
01:50:22.079 --> 01:50:34.260
In Endgame and what you leave behind, where the plots climax, and there it's all kind of bangs and whistles, but it means nothing.

1930
01:50:34.319 --> 01:50:38.399
It's that bit between Janeway and the Ball Queen and it's all tricks and effects.

1931
01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:51.239
And in DS9, it's the bit where Odo and the female shapeshifter are together again, they merge and technically have like hours long conversation, but it's 2 seconds.

1932
01:50:51.359 --> 01:50:57.539
So it's a nice little science fiction can see, come apart and she goes, oh, well, we're going to stand down now.

1933
01:50:57.539 --> 01:50:59.760
He's coming back to the link.

1934
01:50:59.819 --> 01:51:11.340
But it means something because they've set up that relationship and they've said, the Odo coming home would mean more to them than the entire alpha quadrant. then they prove it.

1935
01:51:11.399 --> 01:51:12.000
Yeah.

1936
01:51:12.060 --> 01:51:14.760
And it comes at a real cost. like a proper cost.

1937
01:51:14.819 --> 01:51:17.100
So it's no bangs, it's no whistles.

1938
01:51:17.159 --> 01:51:19.619
It's an intimate moment between 2 characters.

1939
01:51:19.619 --> 01:51:23.939
That also does have giant things blowing up and shit, doesn't it?

1940
01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:24.960
finale?

1941
01:51:25.079 --> 01:51:25.859
Fabulous.

1942
01:51:25.920 --> 01:51:26.100
Yeah.

1943
01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:27.300
Oh, yeah.

1944
01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:27.779
Yeah, yeah.

1945
01:51:27.840 --> 01:51:29.579
Well that's how it ends.

1946
01:51:29.640 --> 01:51:31.739
I like that. do like that a lot.