WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:20:10

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Hey, Joe. Hi there.

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So, we are doing a two-parter tonight, and it's the series 7

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opener of Deep Space 9.

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And it's called Image in the Sand and Shadows and Symbols in the

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Deep Space 9 tradition of having completely separate titles for

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their 2 part episodes.

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I'm terribly excited to do this, you know, because it's we did in

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the Pale Moonlight, which touched on the Dominion war art, but we

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haven't really been like properly entrenched in the sort of latter

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DS9 mythology.

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And this is well in there, isn't it?

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Yeah, 0 yeah.

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Although, despite that, there is just a fair amount of kind of

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hang time and seeing life unfold on the station and stuff like

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that.

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It's not all kind of business.

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And there are some sort of hilariously camp scenes just with the

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villains, which is a pretty great feature of this version of Star

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Trek, I think.

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Romulans, Nathan.

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They're so predictably treacherous, aren't they?

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So great.

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I mean, we see, we see sort of Damar and his alcoholism and all of

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that stuff.

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That's very important.

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And Gul Ducant, who has been possessed by a par wraith or

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something incredibly ridiculous.

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Although he's not in this 2 part, I remember.

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You watched...

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What did I watch?

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Ah, that's right. series 6 finale, and he's definitely in that.

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Yeah.

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Well, I did my homework, didn't I?

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And so I did watch Tears of the Prophets before launching into

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this.

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I've seen this before, of course, and I remember I very much

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remember this change happening as the show went out, the recasting

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and things like that.

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And that's one of the things that excites me about TV, is that you

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have to accommodate the real world sometimes and it makes you do

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things that you might not have otherwise done.

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And so Terry didn't want to come back for the final year because

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she was doing Becca.

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I don't, no, that's, that's absolutely argued in the DS9

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documentary by Terry Farrell, who did want to do series 7.

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Oh, and when their contracts came up for renewal.

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So they all signed up for 6 years.

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All she wanted to do was sit down and have a conversation with the

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producers about her contract and her salary and nobody would give

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her the time.

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And she asked and she asked and they were like, well, you're going

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to do it.

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Like, just assume she were going to do it.

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And in the end she was like, all right, well, I'm not going to do

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it then.

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And then her mind was made up and then they had plenty of time for

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her.

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And yeah, I just think the whole thing was handled really quite

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badly.

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And technically she probably should have been in this last

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series.

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And the series might have felt more complete if she had.

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But actually, I think it's more unique that she isn't because

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introducing a new character in series 7.

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And I think it's a character that flourishes throughout Sirius 7

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as well to the point where you really like her by the end of the

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year.

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Well, I just think that's a little bit unique.

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Yeah, and it's not something that anyone planned.

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It's just a thing that ended up happening to them.

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Now, I understand that you have some prepared remarks on the

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subject of the Dominion War, which I may have been cruel about in

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a past episode.

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I took great exception when you said that you were not keen on the

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Dominion war.

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No, no, I didn't take exception because obviously we're always

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going to have a difference of opinion, but I thought to myself

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okay, you're not so keen on this approach.

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Why do I like it so much?

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Because you're right.

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This isn't very Star Trek to have a sustained conflict like this.

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It's not really what Gene Roddenbury had in mind when he 1st

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created Star Trek.

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Although there is that thing with the Klingons in the original

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series that runs throughout the entire thing.

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So I prepared a small statement.

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I thought, no, it's just, no, essentially, it's just some reasons

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as to why I like the Dominion war so much.

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So prepare to rebuilt.

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Okay.

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If you wish, okay.

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Okay.

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So it's because it's serious long form storytelling that gives the

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serious structure, momentum, and a reason to pop back beyond just

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loving the characters.

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Which I think is true.

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Because it allows to show the chance to explore the consequences

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of conflict and there's a lot of that in here in this story we're

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about to do.

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Things like loss, PTSD, work-based trauma, how to live your life

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in a time of war, exploring like massive acts of heroism and

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defeat and tiny moments of victory and humanity throughout those

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last couple of seasons as well.

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The very small moments of victory that they get are sometimes like

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the best moments.

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I really like how it sort of examines, I'm going to say the

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rottenberry ideal.

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Let's just say the Star Trek ideal.

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It tries to uphold it, and sometimes it absolutely eviscerates it

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in episodes like in the Pale Moonlight and valiant and things like

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that.

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And I really like the fact that all the regulars are examined in

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interesting ways within the conflict.

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They're all given a ton of development because of the war that's

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going on.

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I also think it highlights the lighter episodes even more.

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So things like that are being bada bang, take me out to the hollow

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suite, they really shine bright in the cards.

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I think episodes like magnificent Ferengi.

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They're proper comedy episodes, but because they're sort of

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surrounded by a lot of darkness, they shine all the brighter.

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Now this you'll agree with.

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It's spearheaded by memorable, camp, and scary characters like

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Ducat, Weyun, Demar, the female shapeshifter, Garak, Kai Wyn, all

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played by great actors, all given great lines, and what I really

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like is it gives us like a really intense focus on the villains in

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a way that no other Star Trek show has done before or since.

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So we're always going behind the lines and we're always seeing the

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conflict from their point of view as well.

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And no other Star Trek show does that over a sustained period of

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time.

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Well, I think you're erasing those excellent scenes with all the

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Zindi in one room in...

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Hey, sorry.

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I forgot the 4 year Beaumar arc in Voyager as well.

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That's right.

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I love those scenes.

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Look, I think I agree with most of that.

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And particularly...

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I'm not done yet.

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Oh okay.

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All right.

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Keep going, man.

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Okay, well, I just put 4 words for this one.

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Space battles and their call.

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Because I really don't know.

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I know they do look a bit like cartoons now, but at the time they

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were the most exciting things.

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Sacrificed of Angels, Tears of the Prophets, once more onto the

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breach. like the space battles nose were just so exciting.

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Yeah.

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Okay, here's where you may disagree with me. because it leans into

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and celebrates soap opera, which is another one of DS9's unique

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strengths.

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So Cisco gets married, Dax dies, Kira and Odo have a romance, Nog

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loses his leg, wind goes completely power mad, Bashir courts

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edgery, wharf greaves.

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It's all soap, basically. and it's tied into the war, and it means

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there's always something happening, and we're always feeling

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something, even though there's big sweeping events going on.

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We're always the emotion is there.

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And I think that's important as well.

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And finally, my last reason, sorry, I was a little bit of a

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random.

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No, no, no, go on.

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It grabs hold of 4 years of character and world building and it

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ties it into a massive arc that it builds upon.

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It uses that mythology.

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It investigates all that previous work and in a way that sort of

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allows it to surprise and delight and frustrate sometimes and

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experiment too.

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It's not always perfect.

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I don't think the Dominion War, but it's massively ambitious.

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It's forward thinking, often satisfying, and the show is a lot

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more richer for it being there.

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That's my reasons.

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So, for me, I think the long form storytelling is hugely, hugely

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important, and it does make each season cohere.

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And it's something that perhaps was inevitable in Deep Space 9, if

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they were ever going to take the premise series, stationary

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location.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And and so you weren't just sort of solving a space problem of the

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week that arises in a different place because you're just here.

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So I think that's really good and, you know, that's how Star Trek

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is now to lesser or greater degree.

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Certainly discovery tells a single story within a season.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think that works really well.

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And the soap opera thing is absolutely an important thing about

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this sort of fander.

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Like, I'm not the 1st person to observe that science fiction

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fandom and soap opera fandom are really, really similar.

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And, you know, they're the sort of shows.

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The building blocks are the same, aren't they?

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the same.

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And just sort of backstory and knowledge of characters and

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knowledge of how they behave and stuff.

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And, you know, there's memory alpha, but there's wikis for, you

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know, soap operas as well.

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Oh, yeah, like wickings for neighbours and things like that.

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Yeah, absolutely, there are.

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And so it is very similar.

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And there's that adorable scene in Queer as folk, isn't there

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where Vince, the main character who's a Doctor Who fan meets a

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young woman who's into Coronation Street and the shows are being

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put up against one another at some point, like in the 1980s and

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they reflect on how silly and bad that was because the same sort

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of people watch that sort of show.

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Yeah.

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Well, Rusty Davis absolutely got that and turned Doctor Who into a

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massive soap opera knee.

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Yeah, yeah, with great success.

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Like, it was one of the best things about his time on the show.

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And so I love the soap opera stuff in Star Trek. interesting about

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that list.

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I just read out, is you can't point any of those things at

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practically any of the rest of 90s Trek.

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That's how unique this show was.

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Yeah, 0 yeah, absolutely.

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And who do you think it is?

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Ira Bear and...

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Ira Bear, Ronald D Moore.

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I think Michael Pillar to an extent.

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He's there.

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He is kind of guiding gently, certainly at the beginning as well.

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And it was his idea of, you know, for the stationary location.

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Let's have the aliens come to us.

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Let's have a situation where we can't warp away at the end and

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we've got to deal with the consequences.

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You know, that was that was basically his idea.

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But I mean, it looked like it was just going to be, we sit there

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while the wormhole, the convenient wormhole kind of baths a series

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of aliens at us every week, and we sort of get that a little bit

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early on, you know.

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Um, but they abandon that and do something much more interesting.

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The wormhole is still important when we start the episode that

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we're about to watch.

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It's closed, isn't it?

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Yeah, it is.

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Yeah, this one What's interesting about DS9 not conforming is that

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its lack of success at least compared to TNG is absolutely why it

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was given creative free reign.

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Because they were, I think they essentially went, well, no one's

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really watching it.

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We're gonna do 7 years.

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In the latter half of this, just go, man, do what you want to do.

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I think I think the execs just gave up because Ira Bear was like

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well, we're just going to keep pushing this.

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We're gonna keep experimenting.

253
00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:12.179
Well, I mean, but I think it is like, is it the best regarded?

254
00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:17.399
Like certainly in my circles, it's the best regarded show of the

255
00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.139
1990s, the best regarded Star Trek.

256
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:23.759
You know, honestly, if you look at when polls are down about all

257
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:28.320
the Star Trek shows, DS9 always ranks high and it very often ranks

258
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.080
as people's favourites, a lot of podcasts out there, it's people's

259
00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.960
favourites, and that's why they're doing Star Trek podcasts, Trek

260
00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:34.799
geeks and people like that.

261
00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:38.759
It's a massively popular and I can see why and it sticks out a bit

262
00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.799
like a sore thumb, doesn't it, in the 90s?

263
00:12:40.860 --> 00:12:41.460
Yeah.

264
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.120
I mean, it still commits a lot of the sins that 90s trek commits

265
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.200
but...

266
00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:47.220
Well, at least it's trying.

267
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.419
Yeah, yeah.

268
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:52.799
And, you know, like we did season seven, episode one of The Next

269
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.740
Generation, which was descent part two.

270
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:56.759
Now we're doing it.

271
00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:57.059
Okay.

272
00:12:57.059 --> 00:12:59.879
Now we're doing the corresponding one in deep space and high.

273
00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:01.799
And the same part is so boring.

274
00:13:01.860 --> 00:13:06.120
It's what you expect of Star Trek, it's the Borg, it's evil data

275
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.519
you know, it's Beverly Crusher on the ship.

276
00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:09.779
I mean, you quite like that bit.

277
00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:15.240
And this season seven, episode one of DS9, against what people

278
00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:16.019
will probably think.

279
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.120
It's the quietest episode you can imagine.

280
00:13:18.179 --> 00:13:19.860
It's a load of character scenes.

281
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:23.220
You know, and it eventually builds somewhere, I'm not going to say

282
00:13:23.220 --> 00:13:26.460
massively exciting, but it builds up some pace and momentum in the

283
00:13:26.460 --> 00:13:26.879
2nd episode.

284
00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.440
But it's not probably what people have come to expect from episode

285
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.919
one of a show that's doing things like Wear the Warrior at the

286
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:35.580
beginning of the season.

287
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:37.139
Yeah.

288
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.019
Yeah, I like this better than Way of the Warrior, for sure.

289
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.940
Like, I think Way the Warrior is great.

290
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.720
And I remember it in context, but I like this 2 part are better.

291
00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:50.039
And it is partly that it just works like a soap opera.

292
00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:51.960
Like with individual plots.

293
00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:55.620
There's a bunch of about 4 plots going on at one time, each of

294
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:58.740
which gets advanced slightly and then we switch to the next plot.

295
00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:02.639
Brilliantly in like the last 20 minutes of the 2nd episode.

296
00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:06.059
It's like it literally hops from one to one to one to one to one

297
00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:07.019
to one like that, you know.

298
00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.899
And the pace almost comes not from the scenes themselves, but just

299
00:14:09.899 --> 00:14:11.820
the succession of scenes, you know?

300
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:12.960
Yeah.

301
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.120
It's really nicely plotted this.

302
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:17.100
Yeah, I think it's really fun.

303
00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.399
And it gives us time to do things that we would and otherwise

304
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:20.759
see.

305
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:25.080
Like I love spending time at Ben's father's diner, for instance.

306
00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:27.179
Oh, he's from Peters, isn't he?

307
00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:29.039
Yeah, yeah.

308
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:31.440
So we were just talking about this at school today.

309
00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:36.360
So Brock Peters, of course, is in a couple of the Star Trek films

310
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:43.799
and he also plays Tom in to kill a Mockingbird.

311
00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:45.899
Yes, yeah, you were telling me.

312
00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:49.860
Yeah, you know, he's an incredible actor and he really, it is one

313
00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:52.740
of those moments where you kind of think, oh, holy crap, we've got

314
00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:55.139
Brock Peters on this on our silly show.

315
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:56.820
It's pretty exciting.

316
00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.620
Like, we've got what a shore.

317
00:14:58.679 --> 00:14:59.820
We've got Louise Fletcher.

318
00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:04.019
Marco Lemo, Jeffrey Coombs, like, how did we get this lucky?

319
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:05.879
It's pretty amazing, isn't it?

320
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:07.799
Well, shall we shall we head in?

321
00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:09.419
I think we probably should.

322
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.000
I am ready here.

323
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:13.919
I'll count us in.

324
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:20.039
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

325
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:25.980
Okay, so I've got a last time on Deep Space nine.

326
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:26.399
Do have that?

327
00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:27.899
No, I do, I do.

328
00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:28.500
Yeah.

329
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.779
We're going to invade Cardassia.

330
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.580
G. Roddenbury would be appalled.

331
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.100
Yeah, so why are we doing that?

332
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.500
I can't even remember, but there's some very good reason.

333
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.159
A vital stab in the Chintaka system or something like that.

334
00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:42.120
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

335
00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:43.559
Oh, here we go.

336
00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:46.080
Oh, the car's been taken over by a power rave.

337
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:46.799
Dax is dead.

338
00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:48.419
I mean, it's all going on in the pre tiles.

339
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. it's a real thing I do like how he

340
00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:53.759
apologises to her after he leaves.

341
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:55.740
Like I did. appreciated that.

342
00:15:55.799 --> 00:16:00.299
Because, you know, like we still have to live with that character

343
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.539
you know, like because he's going to be in so much of it and just

344
00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:04.679
have him murder.

345
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:07.799
Like having him murder Dax just, that's not great.

346
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.120
I've no idea.

347
00:16:09.179 --> 00:16:12.120
I said to you, are they managed to make it so melodramatic and

348
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:13.259
arbitrary at the same time?

349
00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:17.639
It's basically an accident, but at the same time, he's got red

350
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.220
contact lenses and mad special effects coming out of his hands.

351
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:24.120
Like, the worst thing about it is her and Worf are planning to

352
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.639
have a baby and you kind of think, oh, Jesus Christ.

353
00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:29.340
No, come on, that scene.

354
00:16:30.659 --> 00:16:32.639
It's a private matter.

355
00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:34.259
We're thinking about having...

356
00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.860
Yeah, that's really funny and she's super girly. really terrific.

357
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.700
It was a private matter, exactly. really good.

358
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:42.960
Oh, look at this.

359
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.299
Or Avery Brooks talking to a coffin.

360
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:46.019
Yeah.

361
00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:48.299
Well, is it a coffin or is it a torpedo?

362
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.220
Aren't they torpedo?

363
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.259
Yeah, it should be shot into space, obviously.

364
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:53.159
Yeah.

365
00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:55.139
Yeah, I never buy that.

366
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.580
Who's talking to a dead body?

367
00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:57.600
seems crazy.

368
00:16:57.659 --> 00:17:01.679
Do you know the bit I don't like is when she goes, oh, baby, would

369
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.519
have been so beautiful..

370
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:06.960
That's awesome though.

371
00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:08.339
I love that sort of cheese.

372
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:09.180
That's terrific.

373
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.019
I'm a big fan.

374
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.279
Okay, and now the continuation.

375
00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:16.859
So now we have religious maniacs here on the promenade.

376
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.099
May I say that this is picked up in the episode covenant in series

377
00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:24.119
seven, where we go to Empoc Nor, which is being run by the cult of

378
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:24.720
the power, right?

379
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:26.099
So again, it's setting stuff up for the future.

380
00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:26.940
Yeah, okay.

381
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:27.539
Yeah, yeah.

382
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:29.880
So it's not just a random scene with me.

383
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:32.400
And we discussed them.

384
00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:36.539
I think I think Odo should consider turning the hose on them

385
00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:37.799
frankly, but like whatever.

386
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:43.740
Well, he rested a Vedic for fundraising and yeah, he's going to

387
00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:44.220
let these people.

388
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:49.380
That's right. they're super evil I'm calling him Odo exposition in

389
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:49.859
the scene.

390
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:56.279
In fact, we do spend, it is, it's really bad, isn't it?

391
00:17:56.339 --> 00:17:59.339
So these who are now telling one another.

392
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:03.119
Odo's Odo's explaining to Kira what they've been undergoing

393
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:06.779
together for the last 3 months, which is kind of hilarious.

394
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:09.180
And there is a fair amount of that.

395
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:11.279
Yeah, good.

396
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.240
But I do like the exchange where he says about the kiss and he

397
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:16.259
says it changed my life.

398
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:17.279
That's lovely.

399
00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:18.000
Yeah.

400
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.319
Just to remind her.

401
00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:22.799
Now, look, I know you're not so keen on Kira's season 7 look.

402
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:24.660
I like it a lot.

403
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:26.039
And do you know why?

404
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:29.880
I just like the fact that she's just embracing being a bit more

405
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:30.720
feminine.

406
00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:33.119
She's loosening up a bit, you know?

407
00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:35.880
She did have very American lady hair before.

408
00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:41.579
And so VC is a bit of improvement. shoulder pads. like a dynasty

409
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:41.759
character.

410
00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:45.839
It's funny though, she's the only one in the universe wearing that

411
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.099
particular uniform.

412
00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.220
Like she was wearing the same uniform as Odo before, but now

413
00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:53.279
they've given us something that looks a little bit more flattering

414
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.519
I think.

415
00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:58.140
I would like to point out that the Nile visitor insisted on being

416
00:18:58.140 --> 00:18:59.099
promoted this season.

417
00:18:59.579 --> 00:19:02.160
I've been I've been in the same rank.

418
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:03.599
I've done my time for 6 years.

419
00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:05.099
Colonel.

420
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.380
If only Garak Wang could have been a strong, eh?

421
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:08.880
Yeah, he should have been, Lieutenant.

422
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:10.200
Lieutenant Wong.

423
00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:14.339
So, yeah, that's delightful, isn't it?

424
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:17.519
Colonel Kira, it is slightly weird because it's almost like her

425
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.059
1st name is major, you know, major Kira, like and the major and

426
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:21.359
stuff.

427
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:24.240
So it is kind of slightly weird having it be the kernel.

428
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:25.920
I think you get used to it after a bit.

429
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:27.000
But you know what it means?

430
00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:29.640
It means that all the scenes on the station in this are

431
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:33.720
spearheaded and this whole two-parter, I'll speed headed by non

432
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.920
federation characters and I really love that. you know, that's how

433
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.619
much we've come to love these characters because that would kind

434
00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:43.019
of be unthinkable in the original series, wasn't it?

435
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:43.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

436
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:44.460
Oh, absolutely.

437
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:49.259
And so here we are on the Defiant for some more exposition where

438
00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:50.880
we discover what we've been doing.

439
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:54.420
We, you know, the invasion of Cardassia has stopped while our

440
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:55.980
casualties mount, he explained.

441
00:19:56.099 --> 00:19:57.119
Can I ask you a question?

442
00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.240
Are we supposed to get caught up on the last 3 months and if

443
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:00.900
they're not going to tell us?

444
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:04.980
Well, yeah, but it is it's pretty leaden, isn't it?

445
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:05.880
That's okay.

446
00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:06.779
Like, I don't care.

447
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:10.440
They should do one of those Star Trek Scrolls. in the last 3

448
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:12.119
months.

449
00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:16.140
Well, I actually like that we've been given 3 months to breathe.

450
00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:21.180
And in a way, it's a kind of cheat because we don't really get to

451
00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:25.859
see anyone's immediate reaction to Dax's death apart from what

452
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:30.900
Cisco giving the speech to the torpedo in the opening credits

453
00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:31.200
thing.

454
00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:35.880
Yeah, but all of this, you know, like, I don't know.

455
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.059
There's a word I'm probably going to say quite a lot.

456
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.559
And I'm saying it because all other night-ish trek shows just

457
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.000
ignore it and that's consequences.

458
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:48.900
Everything in this story is a consequence of something that's

459
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:49.380
happened before.

460
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.900
Wharf is upset because Dax has died.

461
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.180
Cisco is on earth because Dax has died.

462
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:54.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

463
00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:58.140
Here and Odo are fighting the Romulans because Cisco brought them

464
00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.259
into the war in the Palm Moonlight.

465
00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:02.400
Like all of it.

466
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:04.500
It's great.

467
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.779
We do come back.

468
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:14.460
Um, we do come back here. in, is it the, to date the most recent

469
00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:19.440
episode of Star Trek Lower Decks, we actually come back to

470
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:20.400
Cisco's.

471
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:21.900
Marvellous.

472
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.359
And it's the same establishing shot from outside.

473
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:29.940
And there's delicious Ketrasell white hot sauce as well.

474
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:33.420
Oh, I want to try it.

475
00:21:33.539 --> 00:21:35.400
Oh, I love spicy food.

476
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:38.339
Could I just say, though, how refreshing these sets are.

477
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.640
I just love these very kind of natural.

478
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.380
They are very brown now.

479
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.000
And you know what?

480
00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:47.339
Every Brooks looks very cool at the piano, you know.

481
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:48.660
Yeah, yeah.

482
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.960
And like he's wearing his pyjamas, which is kind of delightful.

483
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.079
Oh my god, look.

484
00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:57.359
It might be a vision outside.

485
00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:01.200
Yeah, we will actually go there in a minute, so that's...

486
00:22:01.259 --> 00:22:03.359
I mean, we'll talk about it, but it is that same rock where they

487
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.880
film everything in America.

488
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:07.440
That same desert, yeah.

489
00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:08.279
Yeah, yeah.

490
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:10.319
Okay.

491
00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:12.839
Oh, do you know the woman who played San Francisco, right?

492
00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:13.799
Deborah Lacy.

493
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:16.680
She was so delighted when she saw this special effect because

494
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.480
she'd never been anything with special effects before.

495
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.259
And they had to do like a clay model of her face in order to make

496
00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:22.920
this special crack.

497
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:23.819
Yeah, cracks open.

498
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.259
Quite nice, isn't it?

499
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:26.160
Yeah, yeah.

500
00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:27.900
She's so striking.

501
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.980
Look how beautiful she is. goodness Image in the sand.

502
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:32.519
It's quiet.

503
00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:34.380
Yeah, that's quite nice.

504
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.359
A nice opening, isn't it?

505
00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:40.440
So I had imagined just the way they talk about the planet Tyree.

506
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:43.619
I had imagined that that was something that we've heard of

507
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:43.980
before.

508
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.400
No, it has many moons. you know.

509
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:48.359
We've been to a few of them.

510
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:49.019
Yeah, yeah.

511
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:50.339
It just seems kind of mythic.

512
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.079
It's sort of beautiful, I think.

513
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.259
You know what they're doing, though?

514
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:59.339
They are very much leaning into, uh, and I know there's been a lot

515
00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:02.759
of mythology around Beijor, IndiaS9, but it does feel very Babylon

516
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:03.420
5 that.

517
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:04.500
Oh, okay.

518
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.700
I've never heard of that show.

519
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:07.019
So it's hard to tell.

520
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:12.960
It's that sort of quasi-religious mythology that basically Babylon

521
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:16.920
5 did it 1st and then DS9, by pure coincidence, did the same

522
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:17.160
thing.

523
00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:17.940
Yeah.

524
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.799
But I mean, it is baked into the premise.

525
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:21.059
Like he's a religious figure.

526
00:23:21.059 --> 00:23:24.240
And so having him receive visions and stuff from the prophets

527
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.220
which we discover is actually what's happening.

528
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.359
But I love the very nice, the gentle mystery of it as well.

529
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:32.579
Like it's not grandstanding, isn't it?

530
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.380
him just trying to figure out what's going on.

531
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.380
And then we get some fabulous soap opera scenes where he's like

532
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:38.279
you know, dad.

533
00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.440
I need to know who she is.

534
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:44.160
It's so hilarious. and it's like, it's your real mum.

535
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:46.799
It's so it's so great.

536
00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:50.339
And it's one of those times where I think they've kind of looked

537
00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:51.000
back.

538
00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:53.339
You know how we sort of make this up as they've gone along?

539
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:53.819
Yeah, yeah.

540
00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:56.819
It's not been pre-planned, like Babylon 5, and I think that's all

541
00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:59.220
for the better, because it means they can just keep adding.

542
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:02.700
But they kind of look back and go, well, can we make sense of the

543
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:07.079
profits having to choose Cisco, for him having to be the

544
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.920
emissary.

545
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:10.980
Oh, okay, this whole thing was set up from when he was born in the

546
00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:11.460
1st place.

547
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.180
It kind of makes sense.

548
00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:13.319
Well, yeah.

549
00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:15.779
But, I mean, it doesn't matter in a way, and it does give us fun

550
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:16.980
soap opera things to happen.

551
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:19.319
Are we getting Nicole?

552
00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:19.859
There she is.

553
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.700
There's her 1st credit.

554
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.740
Oh, and San Edgary Dax?

555
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.319
I think she's a lieutenant, you know, by the end of the season.

556
00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:26.220
Poor Harry Kim.

557
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.960
He's just decorative, Harry Kim.

558
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:32.759
Oh, he's pretty, isn't he?

559
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:36.480
His hair falls over his face.

560
00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:39.420
Oh, there's my 2 people look fixing the pile.

561
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:40.319
I love those guys.

562
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:41.819
They're awesome.

563
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:43.619
And there's a 3rd guy bringing them some lunch.

564
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.960
That's, that's, that's Col meanie.

565
00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:46.980
Space walking.

566
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.940
Is it right?

567
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.319
He's brought the pizzas.

568
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:51.779
I've got to start saying column, you know.

569
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.859
I keep saying coal.

570
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:53.700
It's cold.

571
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:54.779
Column, yeah.

572
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:57.000
Sorry, Colin, that doesn't.

573
00:24:57.059 --> 00:24:59.460
I've got to stop saying Nana, because it's Nana.

574
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:00.779
I mean, you know what?

575
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:01.980
I watch these fucking credits.

576
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:03.599
I don't know who's the space characters.

577
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.099
They have weird names, people on Star Trek.

578
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:10.500
It was one of the things I watched series 3 of the Orville over

579
00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:13.980
the weekend, and everyone in it seems to have very normal names

580
00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:17.579
which I found really off putting, but there you go.

581
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.940
Yeah, but some the actors' names are weirder than the bloody

582
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:21.240
characters.

583
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

584
00:25:22.019 --> 00:25:24.660
No, that's what, yeah, exactly, Voyager, whether it's trio of

585
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:25.200
Roberts, of course.

586
00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:28.019
Yeah, everyone's called Bobby, aren't they, on that stupid show?

587
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.460
Okay.

588
00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:33.119
Now, look, you be respectful, all right?

589
00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:35.160
Because the guy who plays Admiral Ross's passed on.

590
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.799
He's really not very good.

591
00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:40.019
He's really not great.

592
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:41.519
Is that bad?

593
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:46.559
I mean, I don't think he's passable, but he's a bit wooden.

594
00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:47.940
He is a bit.

595
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.619
And like, who wants a white guy?

596
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:50.099
It is a lot.

597
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:51.900
So we've gotten used to seeing him, right?

598
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:53.279
He's in a lot of episodes.

599
00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:57.480
But it was nice to have a sort of semi-regular admiral rather than

600
00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.220
just having admiral of the week.

601
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:00.839
No, but it makes sense too.

602
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:04.619
Presumably this is his kind of patch, you know, his jurisdiction

603
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:09.059
and so he, you know, but, you know, give me...

604
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:10.319
I mean, it could have been the Cheev.

605
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:12.180
Yeah, but I wouldn't have been scared of her.

606
00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:13.259
Yeah, it's getting a no one.

607
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.119
Yeah, I'd be sad.

608
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:16.980
There could have been an interesting power dynamic there, you

609
00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:17.160
know.

610
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:19.799
He's not scared of Admiral Ross, for God's sake.

611
00:26:19.859 --> 00:26:21.779
His name's Bill.

612
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:27.720
I cannot stress to you how much I fucking loved Kira in this 2

613
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:28.259
parts.

614
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.339
I mean, I love Kira anyway.

615
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:33.900
But how she underplays some lives that could have been overplayed

616
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:35.759
and makes them all the cooler for it.

617
00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:36.839
It's great.

618
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:38.160
She is pretty good.

619
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:39.539
Now we're going to get.

620
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:42.839
Oh, now here we are back on Cardassia and that's...

621
00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:44.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

622
00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:44.880
That's nice.

623
00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:47.579
Completely static, but they're moving the camera at least.

624
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:48.539
Yeah, no, it's awesome.

625
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:53.220
And so we get these guys just bitching at one another in this plot

626
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:55.740
the entire time, which is just tremendous.

627
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:56.819
I'm a huge one.

628
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.319
Do you know what they're setting up here?

629
00:26:58.380 --> 00:27:01.500
Because in 4 episodes of time, we get Treachery Faith and the

630
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:01.920
Great River.

631
00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:02.579
Oh, yeah.

632
00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.900
That's where the new way defects and goes over to Odo.

633
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:07.619
Oh, okay.

634
00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:10.740
There's a great scene where it's exposition again, because the

635
00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:12.240
whole thing's basically exposition.

636
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:13.799
It's a fabulous exposition.

637
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:19.500
And it goes, yes, my predecessor's deaf in a transporter accident

638
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.640
and then he looks at DeMar.

639
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:23.819
This is basically setting up that.

640
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:26.640
That's so great.

641
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.440
That Wayne pisses him off.

642
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:32.460
But then, of course, that leads to the massive plot twist later in

643
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:35.519
the season where he, the whole Cardassian people defect.

644
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.319
Yeah, that's right.

645
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:38.460
Yeah I remember that.

646
00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:44.039
So I think I think DeMar is actually pretty damn good.

647
00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:50.160
And I think partly because Mark Alameo is so kind of showy and

648
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.259
camp and over the top.

649
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:56.460
And he downplays it, but I think he's really quite good.

650
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.359
And we get to see him out of makeup in this episode as well.

651
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:05.039
I think the point is... is that Dukat is so in control, even when

652
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:05.819
he's not.

653
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.579
Whereas DeMar is totally out of his depth in this role.

654
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:13.799
And I think Casey Biggs never pretends otherwise. you know, that's

655
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:16.799
why he's always drinking and we've got a woman on his arm, you

656
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:20.160
know, like he's doing anything to make himself feel more

657
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.640
comfortable, you know, controlling his entire people, but whilst

658
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.859
they're being slaughtered because they're essentially being used

659
00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:29.880
as foot soldiers and they're, and by the end of the season, what

660
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.039
is it, like 200000000 or something?

661
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:33.119
Carl, that feels a dead.

662
00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:33.900
Right, okay.

663
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:34.440
Okay.

664
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:36.900
He basically walks them into a slaughterhouse.

665
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:37.559
Right.

666
00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:38.880
Yeah.

667
00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:40.680
And here we go, right?

668
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:42.240
Here's our mystery.

669
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:46.980
We identicate our identicate reassembling of Sarah Cisco.

670
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:47.640
Is it, Sarah?

671
00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:51.299
Some people do this, you know, with magazine cuttings, you know

672
00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:53.940
they make their ideal man with various parts.

673
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.279
That sounds really super creepy.

674
00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:57.660
There must be an app for it.

675
00:28:57.720 --> 00:28:58.920
Look at his app.

676
00:28:58.920 --> 00:28:59.700
I want away then.

677
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.180
This big, big, bad iPad.

678
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:04.019
Massive, isn't it?

679
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.079
It's like a fucking easel, wouldn't it?

680
00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:12.599
Yeah, that's iPad Pro. Can I just say a massive thumbs up for the

681
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:15.960
inside outside foliage going on here?

682
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:17.220
Because I love...

683
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:18.839
I love trees inside, you know?

684
00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:22.140
Oh, wow, she's very pretty, isn't she?

685
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:23.160
San Francisco.

686
00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:26.940
And that's not Brock Peters in that photo either.

687
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:31.740
That's unknown, unknown actor. playing young.

688
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:32.700
I did look it up.

689
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:36.900
These scenes, though.

690
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.819
Let's not stress the importance of these scenes with 3 great black

691
00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:46.140
actors, just commanding this episode, essentially. like, It

692
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:49.859
shouldn't be bold, but it kind of was at the time.

693
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:52.319
Yeah, no, they're great.

694
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.059
And Brock Peters, holy crap, he's good.

695
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:56.759
Don't you just, I believe their relationships.

696
00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:57.960
100%.

697
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:01.259
Oh, here we go, right.

698
00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:03.240
Okay, so over Jets, yeah.

699
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.339
Although this takes forever, but I love it when it beats up.

700
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.380
Cool, uh, like, fix bar.

701
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.019
Yeah, it's kind of depressing.

702
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:15.779
I think it's really a bit tragic.

703
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.259
Because I was getting to a point where I'm going, oh, this song's

704
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:19.680
dreary.

705
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:21.539
They're going to go on forever and then he just stands up and

706
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:23.460
punches the table.

707
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:25.440
I'm like, Ben boy, he's listening to me.

708
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:29.460
He cheaply smashes things off camera, though, on the whole.

709
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.319
James Darren.

710
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:32.400
I don't know, cut back to it.

711
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:34.380
It's completely, there's glass smashed everywhere.

712
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:41.400
James Darren has a wonderful way, you know, of of playing the role

713
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:44.339
with a bit of nuance, which could have been a very two-dimensional

714
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:44.700
role.

715
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.400
I love it here in a minute where he's like trying to distract him

716
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.240
in various ways because he knows he's going to be hurt if he

717
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.619
listens to Jazia's favourite song.

718
00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:56.940
Yeah, sing the song.

719
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.920
It's your die.

720
00:30:58.980 --> 00:30:59.940
I like it right there.

721
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.440
He is really good.

722
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.059
Do you remember the time tunnel?

723
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:06.779
I remember it was in it, but I don't think I've ever seen it.

724
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:08.940
So it's so boring.

725
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.839
It's like a terrible science fiction show with absolutely no sense

726
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:16.200
of humour at all where they go to just sort of various places that

727
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:21.000
they have stock footage of or old 20th century fox films lying

728
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.579
around that they can use and he was in it.

729
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.880
Actually, that's not all he's done, though, apart from this.

730
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:27.660
Don't know.

731
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:32.460
You said that he was reluctant to do this because he's seen things

732
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:35.579
until you got the script and then you said, get my Asian on the

733
00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:35.759
phone.

734
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:36.359
Right.

735
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:36.720
Yeah.

736
00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:37.980
And that was his way, right?

737
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:42.059
Yeah, and you know, I will always point out when somebody's

738
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:45.779
divisive on DSI and people, some people love Fit Fontaine and

739
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:48.359
other people say this is where the show jump the shark.

740
00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:49.680
No, he's great.

741
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:54.000
Our mutual friend, Siheart, refuses to watch any episode with him

742
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:54.299
in it.

743
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:58.079
He doesn't think Star Trek should be fun, that's all.

744
00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:02.039
No, it's, but it is that thing as all the other characters are

745
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:07.200
real and he's just a simulation in an entertainment program.

746
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.380
And you kind of think, no, they're all simulations in an

747
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:11.700
entertainment program.

748
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.480
That's the point.

749
00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:16.680
He's as real as any of the others And the songs, all the songs

750
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.559
they use are there to punctuate a moment.

751
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:23.880
It's, I've got you under my skin in his way. is the moment when

752
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:26.940
Kira realises, fuck me, I've fallen in love with you.

753
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:31.920
She looks at him in that song. she realises, yeah, he is under her

754
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:32.279
skin.

755
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:33.720
Oh, sorry, that sounds a bit filthy.

756
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:38.579
This is important because this is wolf grieving and he's listening

757
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:40.259
to music that Jazia loved.

758
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:44.279
Bada bing bada bang, the best is yet to come is telling us we're

759
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.759
about to have a 10 episode, amazing arc, you know, saddle up.

760
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:48.779
Oh, yeah.

761
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:52.140
And then, you know, the big tear jerker moment as well in the

762
00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.779
finale is in his bar.

763
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.359
I can't even think about it too much.

764
00:32:57.660 --> 00:32:58.559
I'll tear up.

765
00:32:58.680 --> 00:32:59.220
What song was that?

766
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:00.240
The way you look tonight.

767
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:01.859
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.

768
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:03.420
It's so good.

769
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:04.799
Just a perfect moment.

770
00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:06.059
A perfect way of ending it.

771
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:10.680
There's only one bit, you know, that I don't like with it, Fontaine

772
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.740
and that is in the emperor's new cloak when it comes along. punk

773
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:17.640
vic, and he's got 2 guns in the alternative universe, and he's

774
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:20.519
saying things like, you know, I'm going to tick those scumbags

775
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:20.880
on.

776
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.980
It's really terrible.

777
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:26.880
That might be a little bit out of Jimmy Darren's sort of remit.

778
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:29.819
I can't always get it right.

779
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.700
Oh, here's Senator Cretak.

780
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:40.079
So Senator Cretak is played by the woman who played the head evil

781
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.740
lesbian in Planet, the evil lesbians.

782
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:49.079
The Outcast, which is in series five, series five, I think of Star

783
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:49.980
Trek, the Next Generation.

784
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.019
I've gone that completely.

785
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:53.400
I forgot.

786
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:56.940
Well, because she's got a very, very memorable voice.

787
00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:57.420
Yeah.

788
00:33:57.480 --> 00:33:58.740
And I think she's terrific.

789
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.319
I think she's really good in this role because she's very sort of

790
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:01.920
no nonsense.

791
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:09.420
And the 2 of them actually end up like a credible relationship.

792
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:12.599
Don't you think that Kira and her are together?

793
00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:14.519
I don't think it's, yeah, they do.

794
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.340
And yeah, they share that lovely scene where they have the, the

795
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:20.280
she has the jump just stick and and she says, oh, I never knew

796
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.699
Bajoras could be so efficient and, you know, these are high. is

797
00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:24.960
high praise from a Romulan.

798
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:29.820
But obviously, I don't think it's her that's making the choices in

799
00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:30.059
this.

800
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:32.760
I think the Romulan high command is saying, well, we're going to

801
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:33.960
put the weapons on Turner.

802
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:35.760
And she's just the one that's got to facilitate it.

803
00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:37.500
And she's a robbery then, so she'll do it.

804
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:38.219
Yeah.

805
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.239
But again, that's setting up for inter honour.

806
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:42.960
Oh, I can't say it.

807
00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:43.800
You can say it for me.

808
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.880
Well, it, it's a misquoted amongst...

809
00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:50.940
Interama and him sealant leges.

810
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.159
Oh, that was really hot, well done.

811
00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:56.820
It's your exploitation from Cicero.

812
00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:00.300
If you hadn't got that right, I'll have been surprising.

813
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.940
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a great episode later on in the season

814
00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:07.800
where she's basically set up as a Romulan patsy because section 31

815
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.420
and the Romulans are working hand in hand and she, the light, she's

816
00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:15.059
thrown off as like the one that's behind it all and her career

817
00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:16.019
goes down the pan.

818
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:20.159
So she's a semi-regular. episode.

819
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:20.639
Oh, okay.

820
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:22.079
No, she's in 3 episodes.

821
00:35:22.139 --> 00:35:25.019
But at the beginning of that episode, her and Kira having a

822
00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:28.380
debriefing after all that goes on in this, and it's so frosty

823
00:35:28.380 --> 00:35:29.519
between them, it's wonderful.

824
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:36.300
So now we're back in the bar.

825
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.920
Oh, okay, is this the scene where Cisco confronts his father

826
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:42.780
about...

827
00:35:42.780 --> 00:35:43.860
Who's the one?

828
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:44.579
I think the photo.

829
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:47.760
This is one of those very rare moments where Avery Brooks just

830
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:49.920
goes over a cliff. over the top here.

831
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:54.059
And Brox Peters, looks like he thinks that Abra Brooke's going to

832
00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:54.420
hit.

833
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.579
He's got a look in his eye of absolute terror.

834
00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:00.659
Yeah, he seems frail, doesn't doesn't he?

835
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.619
Like he's Brock Peters is like he, I don't know.

836
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.639
He just seems he does seem like a frail old man in this.

837
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.440
Which kind of works out.

838
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:13.260
I'm never quite certain why he goes off to the desert because he

839
00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:15.960
doesn't contribute anything to that plot, but I thought he was

840
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:16.739
just there.

841
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:17.400
That's it.

842
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:18.780
He's seen Brock Peters.

843
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:19.559
Like, come on.

844
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.440
He's very Frau in those scenes because they're forcing him to walk

845
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:26.579
over hill and dale. in probably you know 40 degrees heat.

846
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.340
Yeah, yeah, it's probably just, you know, down the road.

847
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:30.179
Oh yeah, come on.

848
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:30.840
Hey.

849
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:31.860
Hey, lay off.

850
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:33.659
And look how scared it looks.

851
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:35.880
That's terrible.

852
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:38.099
Don't hit me.

853
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:39.539
Yeah, that's awful.

854
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:40.559
What a prick.

855
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:44.519
But what's lovely is, like, obviously, he's now Joseph exposition

856
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.940
in a minute because he's going to recount the entire story of how

857
00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:51.539
he met Sarah, but it's Brock Peters and he delivers it in such a

858
00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:52.199
gentle way.

859
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:55.199
Oh, just I could just sit there and listen to him say anything.

860
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:57.119
So June of 31.

861
00:36:57.300 --> 00:36:58.440
Do we know what year this is?

862
00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:00.179
That's like 40 years ago or something.

863
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:00.960
Like I don't know.

864
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:03.480
What, 22, 31, isn't it?

865
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.360
23rd. 23rd.

866
00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:07.800
Oh, 23, 24th century.

867
00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:09.059
Oh, yeah, I should know that.

868
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.420
Yeah, so 2370s, I think this is said.

869
00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:13.739
I should know the century we were in.

870
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.340
I keep typing it up on the website, but I can't ever remember, but

871
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:21.599
I think it's like the 2370s or something like that.

872
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:26.039
I don't even mind the, where he says, you know, you were so close

873
00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:27.719
to your mama.

874
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.300
We lied.

875
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:32.159
And I actually, I buy that.

876
00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:36.059
Why would you, you know, for a one year old say, well, this ain't

877
00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:36.659
your mum, you know?

878
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.219
You might get around to it.

879
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.260
Like, he's like, how old is he now?

880
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.780
You might think that it was worth mentioning at some point.

881
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:44.639
Maybe it's one of those things you keep putting off.

882
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:45.420
I'll do it this year.

883
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.179
I think it's a thing that people do in soap operas.

884
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:48.900
Do you know what I mean?

885
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:51.780
Like, I think that, like, rather than real life.

886
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:55.079
I've seen some pretty absurd things happen amongst my friendship

887
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:55.739
group, you know?

888
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:59.340
where they discover they have an extra mother or something like

889
00:37:59.340 --> 00:37:59.579
that.

890
00:37:59.699 --> 00:38:01.260
Who's a god?

891
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.039
But do you know, okay, I'm going to tell you why Ira Bear wrote

892
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:06.119
this now.

893
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:09.960
And it's not just to have an excuse as to why the Prophets

894
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.619
contacted him in the 1st place is because he thought, and I don't

895
00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:18.179
think unjustly, that hardcore Star Trek fans, you know, those

896
00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:21.059
mental, fabulous Americans.

897
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:27.300
They consider Star Trek captains like gods, like they put them up

898
00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:30.239
on a massive pedestal and he said, you know what?

899
00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.380
Let's just go for it.

900
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.260
Let's make him a god, you know. which is why at the end of the

901
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:34.559
season.

902
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:38.039
He only ever had one way he was going and that was he was going to

903
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:40.679
go and join the profits and are sent to a higher plane.

904
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:41.280
Yeah.

905
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:41.940
Yeah.

906
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.000
It's a bit cuckoo.

907
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:47.519
But, you know, it's different.

908
00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:51.480
Well, there is a thing that this show does.

909
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:54.840
It does it with like rewriting their backstory because it's

910
00:38:54.840 --> 00:39:00.840
already done it with um, with Sid with um, Bashir.

911
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:04.619
Uh, you know, where it turns out he's not just a smart doctor.

912
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:10.559
He's like a mutant, genetically engineered person and that's.

913
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:13.079
Or as Garak says, you're not genetically engineered.

914
00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:14.340
You're a Vulcan.

915
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.099
It is such a weirdo.

916
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:18.599
Like, I think that's a dumb thing.

917
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:21.239
I don't know why they do it. and they, what happens, they get 2

918
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:22.679
stories out of it, basically.

919
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:26.579
Oh, no, thanks, Leaning Square more than you think.

920
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:30.780
Like he uses it to, and there's some good gags around it as well.

921
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.900
I think it's just a nice way for us to maybe take him a little

922
00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:35.280
more seriously than we were before.

923
00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:38.340
Yeah, but I mean, I like the idea that you can just be a person.

924
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:43.260
Like, you don't have to be some, like, they go a bit heavy on the

925
00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:46.440
backstory and so they're adding more backstory here to Cisco.

926
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:50.579
He's not just a federational officer, but he's, you know, like

927
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:54.119
some being, you know, a demigod or something.

928
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.739
What I like about it, though, is how it's plotted throughout the

929
00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:02.099
series, like initially he was very resistant to be the emissary.

930
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.559
And in the 1st 3 series, I don't want to do the ceremony.

931
00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:07.920
I'm a bit embarrassed by all of this, then somewhere in a session

932
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.800
when he gets the role taken off him, that other emissary comes

933
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:11.460
through the...

934
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:15.360
And then he wants to bring in car systems and all of this and he's

935
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.980
like, why the hell did I ever give this up?

936
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.260
Like, I was keeping this planet in balance.

937
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.079
And then he embraces it and then comes series 6.

938
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:24.900
He's saying things like, I'm going to build a house on Bajor. where

939
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:25.320
I live now.

940
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:26.460
That's where my home is.

941
00:40:26.699 --> 00:40:29.940
And then here he finds out about his mother.

942
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:33.659
And so sort of the spread of the series is him sort of embracing

943
00:40:33.659 --> 00:40:38.639
the whole sort of the Jura mythology and it's part of him and now

944
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:39.539
it actually is part of him.

945
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:40.559
Literally, yeah.

946
00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:41.159
Yeah.

947
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:45.780
I don't know if it always works, but I think it's a very brave

948
00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:47.219
stab at doing something different.

949
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:51.000
I did think it was a strange thing and they seem to leave it alone

950
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:52.619
for a long period of time.

951
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:54.840
They seem to not know quite what to do with it.

952
00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:57.179
Um, but it works.

953
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:01.619
And it is that thing, like, I don't know how Ira Bear works, but

954
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:05.940
you know, Ronald D. Moore talked quite a lot about Battlestar

955
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:08.039
Galactica, which was basically his show.

956
00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:12.840
And you know that he is keen to find out things about the

957
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:17.099
characters from the characters, you know, finds out things that

958
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:21.420
they do or things that work for them and then do them.

959
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:25.199
And it's kind of like, well, he's a part of this character's kind

960
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.860
of bio that we haven't really gone into.

961
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:30.659
So let's do something with it.

962
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.000
And I like that, you know, I think that's interesting.

963
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:38.400
The only time they dropped the ball is before Brock Peters was

964
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:42.360
cast in series 4, uh, we all thought Cisco's father was dead

965
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.539
because in a scene in season 2, the alternate, he has a scene

966
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.780
about his dad and he goes, yes, and I knew that there was nothing

967
00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:49.920
we could do to save him.

968
00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:51.300
Oh, he was dead.

969
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:52.380
Oh, wow.

970
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:55.980
And I just forgot about that.

971
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:57.480
Oh, wow.

972
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.659
You know, they're going to kill off Wayoon and then just go, oh

973
00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:01.500
well, he's a clone.

974
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:03.840
They literally are making this up.

975
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:07.260
That, I mean, that, I think, is absolutely genius because it is

976
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:08.699
like, there's Wayoon.

977
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:11.880
It turns out he's a really fantastically great character.

978
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:15.599
He's not the 1st what are those things called?

979
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:19.199
blanking. water.

980
00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:20.039
Vorta.

981
00:42:20.099 --> 00:42:22.619
He is not the 1st vorta that we've seen because we see one in the

982
00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:25.380
Jem'adar, the female vorta in the Jem'adar.

983
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:28.739
And he's so superb and they kill him at the end.

984
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:31.619
And then they think to themselves, oh, fuck, that was great.

985
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:32.639
Why did we kill him?

986
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:33.300
He's so great.

987
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:35.099
Oh, I know they're clones.

988
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:38.940
And then that becomes the story and it fits perfectly.

989
00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:43.260
And the mileage they get out of that clone situation.

990
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:48.719
It's it's also, I don't think they have an idea going in about the

991
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:49.559
Dominion.

992
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:54.059
You know, that there's basically 3 races of people that make up

993
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:54.780
the Dominion.

994
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:55.500
That's where they stole.

995
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:59.880
The structure of the 3 tiers of the hierarchy and sort of the

996
00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:02.159
details about them, but nothing too.

997
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:03.659
They sort of explored it as they went along.

998
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:04.500
Yeah, yeah.

999
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:05.340
And it's brilliant.

1000
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.940
And you can see in series 3 of Enterprise where they kind of go

1001
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:12.420
well, we can't just have, you know, the Kazon or some bullshit

1002
00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:12.780
thing.

1003
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:17.099
We have to have a complicated, you know, group of people with

1004
00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:19.860
relationships between them and they come up with the stupid

1005
00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:24.179
different zindi species.

1006
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:26.159
I'm not as harsh on that as you are.

1007
00:43:26.219 --> 00:43:28.800
But it doesn't have anywhere near the complexity of this.

1008
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.260
No, but they're trying to do that, aren't they?

1009
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:36.059
It's kind of like they've learned, you know, the Dominion's

1010
00:43:36.059 --> 00:43:36.480
interesting.

1011
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:37.920
Let's do something like that.

1012
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:39.300
Yeah.

1013
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:42.000
And, you know, props for having a go.

1014
00:43:42.059 --> 00:43:45.179
It has no idea it was good, but, you know, at least they tried.

1015
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:46.260
Do you know?

1016
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:47.280
I love this scene, right?

1017
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:50.519
where O'Brien turns up because one is literal hang time.

1018
00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:52.679
He's just going there to hang out and have a drink with him.

1019
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:56.460
But also because I'm both people in that situation.

1020
00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:59.159
I would be the person that would go around someone's house with a

1021
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.159
drink if they'd lost somebody and I'm also the person that would

1022
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:05.039
be like, oh, well, you fuck off when someone turns up in my house

1023
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:05.639
with a drink.

1024
00:44:05.699 --> 00:44:08.820
I'm not sure where my sympathies lie in that scene, you know.

1025
00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:10.800
Yeah.

1026
00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:14.820
Oh, his core gets some great bits in this 2 part, don't he?

1027
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:20.219
Yeah, I mean, that really takes off in the in the 2nd part, but

1028
00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:22.199
that's it's these 3, isn't it?

1029
00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:24.119
In the in this plot.

1030
00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:25.679
So this is this plot coming together.

1031
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:26.880
Yeah, the odd trio.

1032
00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:31.619
Yeah, so we're, we're quite, we're 15 minutes to the, near the end

1033
00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:35.579
of the, of the 1st episode and this is really kicking off.

1034
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:37.139
I guess it's wharf.

1035
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:40.920
Does O'Brien come along in the ship?

1036
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:41.460
I can't remember.

1037
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:42.539
Yeah, yeah.

1038
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.659
He's the one that shows him how to detonate the sun.

1039
00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:52.380
It does lead me to the conclusion that every Klingon ship needs at

1040
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:54.539
least one Ferengi on it, though, because he provides all the

1041
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:55.800
laughs. so much fun.

1042
00:44:55.860 --> 00:44:58.380
Wow, they're so serious, the Klingons, aren't they?

1043
00:44:58.440 --> 00:44:58.800
You know?

1044
00:44:58.860 --> 00:45:00.960
Yeah, no, they're ridiculous.

1045
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:04.260
I'm the only one who's sick of dark for breakfast.

1046
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:05.219
G for lunch.

1047
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.380
I love that.

1048
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:12.480
The thing about how Jadzia Neverator enemies heart in battle. and

1049
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.420
Quark just sort of nod sage and he goes, yeah, well, she was

1050
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:16.199
squeamish.

1051
00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:21.179
Like, it's just gene gag, but it's so adorable.

1052
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:23.579
And so I love this plot.

1053
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:28.019
And I think the reason is, like, we haven't, we haven't got a

1054
00:45:28.019 --> 00:45:31.079
replacement for Jedzia yet, have we?

1055
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:34.500
She comes in at the very end of the episode.

1056
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:35.460
Is that the cliffhanger?

1057
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:37.019
Yes, fabulous.

1058
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:38.340
It's so good. isn't it?

1059
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.159
And, um, that's pretty great.

1060
00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:46.139
So we're still mourning her and we've got to get her into Stovocor

1061
00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:49.500
by doing, you know, defeating an enemy in her honour.

1062
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:51.239
And I think that's really great.

1063
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:56.699
Oh, you were saying, weren't you, to me, that how they both are

1064
00:45:56.699 --> 00:46:01.079
still dealing with the fallout of losing Jadzia and simultaneously

1065
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.840
dealing with her replacement within the same episode.

1066
00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:05.519
That's really nice, isn't it?

1067
00:46:05.579 --> 00:46:09.420
Well, I think I think it works really well because there is a

1068
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:15.719
danger in introducing Ezri, which is that we just forget about

1069
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:19.199
Jedzia and she just looks different now.

1070
00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:21.659
How could we ever forget about Jazia?

1071
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:22.980
No, that's right.

1072
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:23.519
That's right.

1073
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:26.699
And so having them properly mourn Jadzia. having Jensia's death

1074
00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:30.599
really land and be something that that still matters 3 months

1075
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:35.880
later, um, and having Ezri along and having Ezri so different from

1076
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.500
Jadzia in all sorts of ways.

1077
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.420
I think they handle it really well.

1078
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.940
I want to talk about that, but I'll do it in the 2nd episode when

1079
00:46:41.940 --> 00:46:44.639
she comes. turns up because I want to talk about, they talk about

1080
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.940
the audition process of memory alpha. and what they were going for

1081
00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.579
and what they landed on and they're 2 very different things.

1082
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:51.659
Right, right.

1083
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:52.260
I can imagine.

1084
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:54.119
Oh, here we go, back.

1085
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:55.559
We even like the scenes in this alley.

1086
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:59.460
It's just a nice sort of gentle setting.

1087
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.519
I like the steam coming out and the lighting.

1088
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:04.739
It's just, it's not 90s trek, is it?

1089
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:06.420
That's what I like about it.

1090
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.780
I mean, it is, it's very soap opera-ish in that it, you know, it's

1091
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:13.019
out, sort of in the studio, but outdoors.

1092
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:17.699
And it's how the previous season ended, isn't it?

1093
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.320
It's him scrubbing clams, like cleaning the clams out in the back

1094
00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:23.340
a running joke, you know.

1095
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:27.780
Because in that two-parter in series 4 where Jake's like, oh

1096
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:30.840
grandpa, have you taken your medicine and he's going, don't you

1097
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:31.679
start with me, all right?

1098
00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:34.199
I've got 3 bags of clams out there that need cleaning.

1099
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:42.239
And actually, it's kind of, I know it seems a bit quick, though

1100
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:45.360
that we lost to the wormhole wind tears, the profits, and this is

1101
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.599
obviously all leading up to...

1102
00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:51.119
It coming back at the end of the shadows and symbols.

1103
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:52.980
But it's not done quick.

1104
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.139
It's done in like stages, isn't it?

1105
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:56.579
So it feels quite natural.

1106
00:47:56.699 --> 00:47:58.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1107
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.639
I mean, I, you know, like, it made a great cliffhanger, but we

1108
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:05.699
don't need to kind of keep it, the closure of the wormhole.

1109
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.639
Like it made the, it made it look like the show was over.

1110
00:48:08.699 --> 00:48:11.219
Like that collapses the possibility of the show.

1111
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:16.139
That bit where, you know, all the power ray energy comes out to

1112
00:48:16.139 --> 00:48:17.699
cut, he's screaming his head off, yeah.

1113
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.099
And then the wormhole vanishes and he starts laughing his head

1114
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:20.340
off.

1115
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.340
It's the closest we're ever going to get in Star Trek 2, Emperor

1116
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:27.119
Palpatine in series in episode three, when he's going mad with the

1117
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:28.079
electricity, you know?

1118
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:31.019
It's melodrama on the highest level.

1119
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:32.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1120
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:33.900
Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?

1121
00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:35.280
And he just goes for it.

1122
00:48:35.340 --> 00:48:36.599
He doesn't hold back a bit.

1123
00:48:36.659 --> 00:48:37.260
He's really true.

1124
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:38.039
A lamo.

1125
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:39.000
Oh, he's brilliant.

1126
00:48:39.059 --> 00:48:42.000
But you know, I'm actually pleased that they pulled back a bit

1127
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.960
from a lame o and gave Casey Biggs all the opportunities they did

1128
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:51.420
in series 7 because he had a single line in his 1st episode

1129
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:51.719
right?

1130
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:55.320
And he was, I don't know if he was a prestige actor, but they

1131
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.119
basically said, look, we're going to do big things with you.

1132
00:48:57.179 --> 00:48:59.519
I know you're literally just a bit part in this.

1133
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:04.139
And I think he was like, one line, you know, I've got it.

1134
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.800
I've come in at 4 o'clock in the morning, but it's fucking later.

1135
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:08.519
For one light.

1136
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:10.920
Man, oh, man, did they deliver though?

1137
00:49:11.099 --> 00:49:13.860
Yeah, yeah, he's really good.

1138
00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:17.820
And he does look excellent out of the makeup.

1139
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:18.599
He's a good looking man.

1140
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:20.099
Oh, he's very handsome.

1141
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:21.780
Oh, I love those things.

1142
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:23.159
Oh, here we go.

1143
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:26.219
So we're getting rumblings now and all is not well on Turner.

1144
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:28.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1145
00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:29.820
So this is the other plot.

1146
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:30.900
So is that four?

1147
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:36.420
So we've got Stovacor, we've got Derner, we've got Sarah and we

1148
00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.340
have what else is happening?

1149
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:40.199
I think that's it, isn't it?

1150
00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:41.159
Yeah, it's the three.

1151
00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:42.179
Yeah, after three.

1152
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:43.079
Yeah.

1153
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:48.119
And like, you know how we said it in Voyager, that, you know, we're

1154
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.179
lucky if an episode lands on all of our favourite characters, Jane

1155
00:49:51.179 --> 00:49:54.960
Way, 7, the doctor, were quite lucky on this show because they're

1156
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:55.739
all our favourite characters.

1157
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:56.820
They're all pretty great, aren't they?

1158
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:58.139
They're all getting something to do.

1159
00:49:58.199 --> 00:49:58.920
Yeah.

1160
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:03.599
And I do like, like, they do genuinely take advantage of the 2

1161
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:08.519
part format here because it's not hurried, is it?

1162
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:11.760
And I feel like everyone's given their moments to shine, although

1163
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:14.940
this special effect where Martoc comes into the holo suite now is

1164
00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:15.420
really dreadful.

1165
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:17.280
It's really fake.

1166
00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:18.480
That is so bad.

1167
00:50:18.539 --> 00:50:21.179
Defend yourself, what?

1168
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:27.179
He's pretty good as well Well, I said to you before, didn't I, the

1169
00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:31.320
sort of bromance that they have, and the romance he has with Jazzy

1170
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:32.820
it makes Wolf in DSI, I think.

1171
00:50:33.179 --> 00:50:39.000
Yeah, so Worf does 4 years of this and 7 years of Star Trek.

1172
00:50:39.059 --> 00:50:43.440
He's done more Star Trek than literally anyone else in front of

1173
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:43.920
the camera.

1174
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:51.300
Um, And it is great that they find things for him to do here.

1175
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:54.900
I mean, part of his role is to be wrong, right?

1176
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:57.900
So when Warf Declare something confidently, he's generally wrong.

1177
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:02.280
And that is what happens next episode, isn't it?

1178
00:51:02.340 --> 00:51:08.400
And he actually does learn and develop, and it's actually quite, it

1179
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:12.539
is, there's a very touching moment, I think, when he talks about

1180
00:51:12.539 --> 00:51:15.900
his relationship with Jansia, and then talks about their

1181
00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:18.780
relationship with her as well, which...

1182
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:20.940
Nathan, you and me know a little bit about that, didn't we?

1183
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.820
We've both got our partners and we definitely have our own

1184
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:24.480
relationship too.

1185
00:51:24.539 --> 00:51:25.559
Yeah, yeah.

1186
00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:27.119
It's interesting.

1187
00:51:27.179 --> 00:51:28.380
Like I really like it.

1188
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:29.639
Yeah.

1189
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:31.800
Oh my god, this scene.

1190
00:51:31.860 --> 00:51:35.280
But because this episode is so gentle.

1191
00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:37.619
This scene now where...

1192
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:38.519
It does come as a shock.

1193
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:40.079
It's so shocking.

1194
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:44.579
And I'm so unused to seeing blood in 90s trek and he's wearing a

1195
00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:45.360
white apron.

1196
00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:48.719
And so when that knife goes in and that blood goes everywhere.

1197
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:51.059
It's really quite visceral, isn't it?

1198
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:51.780
It's quite shocking.

1199
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:58.139
And this is very leisurely, this scene, and he's come here to get

1200
00:51:58.139 --> 00:51:59.760
away from Bajor, hasn't he?

1201
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:03.059
And he's found himself unable to because 1st there's the vision of

1202
00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:07.139
Sarah and then there's this nutcase here.

1203
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:11.280
I said this little kid.

1204
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:13.860
I don't know, I thought that was the Aaron Eisenberg when I 1st

1205
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:14.099
saw it.

1206
00:52:14.219 --> 00:52:15.239
Oh yeah, okay.

1207
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:17.760
Did you know what?

1208
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.099
Do you remember at the beginning of this scene where him and Jake

1209
00:52:20.099 --> 00:52:23.820
are laughing and stuff, man, the chemistry is just so great.

1210
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:27.239
I just like, they just make me smile when they're together.

1211
00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:28.679
They're wonderful, aren't they?

1212
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:30.119
Such a good choice.

1213
00:52:30.179 --> 00:52:35.099
And again, no other Starfleet captain, no other Star Trek captain

1214
00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:38.340
has had, anything resembling a relationship like that.

1215
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:42.420
And like I gave you, you know, Oh, ow, that really hurt.

1216
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:43.739
Ooh.

1217
00:52:43.739 --> 00:52:47.699
Look, it goes down to the bloody coming out free.

1218
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:48.179
Wow.

1219
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:51.599
Oh.

1220
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:58.500
I even like how Jake runs out and just... bag of crap clams that

1221
00:52:58.500 --> 00:53:01.019
he's just whacked that guy with, I hope so.

1222
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:02.460
I would really hurt.

1223
00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:06.360
What would you do if someone you loved had been stabbed in the gut

1224
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:06.719
like that?

1225
00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:09.719
But, you know, like it's the 24th century and he'll be fine quite

1226
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:12.119
soon, you know, literally the next scene.

1227
00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:15.900
Yeah, he's fine, a regenerator over him, he'll be fine. is this

1228
00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:16.380
all about?

1229
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:17.519
Well, this horse coming past.

1230
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:18.659
Awesome carriage.

1231
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:21.300
Yeah, well, it's...

1232
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.340
Retro 20th century travel.

1233
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:27.000
Well, isn't it supposed to sell it as New Orleans?

1234
00:53:27.059 --> 00:53:29.820
Like, it's kind of like, yes, it's, you know, the Paramount back

1235
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:30.539
lot. or whatever.

1236
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.579
Because it looks more fashionable.

1237
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:36.059
It would look better if it had like a hover thing coming back, you

1238
00:53:36.059 --> 00:53:36.179
know?

1239
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:37.320
Yeah, no.

1240
00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:40.320
They've got to sell it.

1241
00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:44.699
I wanna see that now.

1242
00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:47.760
Galloping in Scotland.

1243
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:48.659
That'd be awesome.

1244
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:53.760
So I think that, so wait, is Tyree a Moon of Bajor?

1245
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:54.360
No.

1246
00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:55.619
Yes, no.

1247
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:56.280
Yeah.

1248
00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:57.480
I think so.

1249
00:53:57.539 --> 00:53:59.280
I just thought it was a planet.

1250
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:02.099
I am pretty happy.

1251
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.860
I would be happy if we didn't have the par raise because I think

1252
00:54:04.860 --> 00:54:05.400
they're stupid.

1253
00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:09.480
They are the most cartoon thing in DS9 by far.

1254
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:10.260
So ridiculous.

1255
00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:14.219
Do you remember the one, the one where Jake and Kira both get

1256
00:54:14.219 --> 00:54:16.980
inhabited by Paro and have a fire on the Promenade?

1257
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.800
And they're just fighting beams at each other.

1258
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:24.420
These Japanese movies would astonishing special effects and their

1259
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:26.460
faults and, you know, all of this got on.

1260
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:30.420
Instead, it's just these 2 little sort of limp special events.

1261
00:54:30.539 --> 00:54:32.460
Yeah, coming out of their stomachs or something.

1262
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:33.300
Naturally.

1263
00:54:33.420 --> 00:54:35.280
There's a few consoles exploding as well.

1264
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:36.420
They always do.

1265
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:40.619
You know what, right?

1266
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.800
Oh, this episode is all set up, isn't it?

1267
00:54:43.860 --> 00:54:46.079
Because they're saying, look, we're going to go on this dangerous

1268
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:46.440
mission.

1269
00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:48.239
And Cisco's saying, on the mission yet.

1270
00:54:48.300 --> 00:54:53.639
I'm going to go to Tyree. and Cisco, Kira goes, and I'm going to

1271
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:54.539
stop the rubbing.

1272
00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:57.900
So nothing has happened, Jeff.

1273
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:00.360
Yeah, yeah, but I'm actually liking it.

1274
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:05.280
I think that giving us a gentle run-up and just getting us

1275
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:07.440
reacquainted with the status quo.

1276
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:11.880
Like, I think, you know, we made fun of the exposition scenes and

1277
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:13.500
they were cheesy as hell.

1278
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:14.400
They deserved it.

1279
00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:18.719
But we do, you know, that's all fun stuff to catch up on.

1280
00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:22.019
It's been 3 months for us as well since the show was last on.

1281
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:26.639
And so it is nice to just establish the rhythm of the show and get

1282
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:28.380
to see all of our favourites back again.

1283
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:30.360
It's the hang time thing.

1284
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:31.800
I'm absolutely happy to do it.

1285
00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:40.019
Can I say that in series one and two of DS9, O'Brien could not

1286
00:55:40.019 --> 00:55:41.639
bear to be around Bashir.

1287
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.800
They are now the bestest of buds.

1288
00:55:43.860 --> 00:55:46.500
And this scene where he's like, well, I'm going on the mission and

1289
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:47.940
Bashir's going, well, that's depressing.

1290
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:49.139
Now I'm going on the mission.

1291
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:52.199
And then Cork's like, well, no, we don't know about Cork, because

1292
00:55:52.199 --> 00:55:55.320
he goes, oh, Miles, I'm touched, and Cork goes, you're both

1293
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:55.920
touched.

1294
00:55:56.039 --> 00:55:56.880
I love that.

1295
00:55:56.940 --> 00:55:59.639
That's actually a properly funny line, isn't it?

1296
00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:04.679
It just, it hinges on that use of the word touch, which is not

1297
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:09.179
particularly common, so it's not a super obvious comeback, and it

1298
00:56:09.179 --> 00:56:10.139
is a kind of cute thing.

1299
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:12.000
I would love one of those beers.

1300
00:56:12.059 --> 00:56:14.880
I am just sitting there sitting here thirsty.

1301
00:56:14.940 --> 00:56:16.739
It's so grim.

1302
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:17.639
What is wrong with you?

1303
00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:19.619
Oh my god.

1304
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:21.659
Can I can I do the Kira quote in this scene?

1305
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:22.380
I love it so much.

1306
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:25.260
And she goes, either you remove those weapons.

1307
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:26.880
Oh, we will.

1308
00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:29.099
Great.

1309
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:30.179
No, cool.

1310
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:30.900
Honestly.

1311
00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:36.000
But you can imagine, like, otherwise Patrick Stewart doing that

1312
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:36.239
live.

1313
00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:38.099
It would be well, Hammy, wouldn't it?

1314
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:39.900
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1315
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:44.099
Either you're about those weapons, send us a Cretack, or I will

1316
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:45.119
you know, it'd be...

1317
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:48.539
And you know what?

1318
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:52.019
Do you know, I just think there's something very hot about, oh, I'm

1319
00:56:52.019 --> 00:56:53.280
going to sound really sexist now.

1320
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:55.019
Two women going at each other like this.

1321
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:55.860
It's great.

1322
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:57.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1323
00:56:57.300 --> 00:56:57.900
Yeah.

1324
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:00.239
I think the 2 of them are really good, but they're both really

1325
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:02.820
strong. you know, strong performers.

1326
00:57:02.940 --> 00:57:05.280
I think they're great together.

1327
00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:07.500
And when they start to appreciate one another.

1328
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:09.179
I really like that too.

1329
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:09.900
I think it's good.

1330
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:14.219
I, uh, well, to show the difference between 90s Trek and Kurtzman

1331
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:14.579
Trek.

1332
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:17.820
Obviously, you have a conflict here between 2 women and they just

1333
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:19.440
basically talk to each other on screens.

1334
00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:23.940
Come, Kursman, Treck, we watch an episode where Burnham and that

1335
00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:26.639
camp woman was kicking the shit out of each other for about 20

1336
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:27.960
minutes. that's right.

1337
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.139
Things have changed Nathan. things have changed.

1338
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:31.860
Yeah.

1339
00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

1340
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:35.699
Oh, now look, this is just another quick cut back to Cardassia.

1341
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:38.099
But it has that wonderful line from Wei Yun, doesn't it, about the

1342
00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:38.579
Romulans?

1343
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:43.739
So what they're just reacting to what happened in the previous

1344
00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:44.280
scene.

1345
00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:49.019
So they've discovered just like Kira has discovered that there's

1346
00:57:49.019 --> 00:57:53.880
7000 plasma torpedoes on this hospital Romulans.

1347
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:54.780
This is it.

1348
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:57.059
I think this is a mission statement as well.

1349
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.480
This scene is saying we are going to spend a lot of time behind

1350
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:01.440
the lines this season.

1351
00:58:01.500 --> 00:58:03.900
We are gonna see their reactions to a lot of this stuff.

1352
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:07.500
It is a bit of an exposition scene and a gag.

1353
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:09.719
Oh, here comes the cliffhanger.

1354
00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:10.980
Yeah.

1355
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:12.420
So exciting.

1356
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:16.619
Avery Brook's going to go at the piano and be a bit, you know, Gaga

1357
00:58:16.619 --> 00:58:17.760
like he is in the captain's.

1358
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:24.780
I'm glad that they all go together and I'm glad they take Brock

1359
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:25.980
Peters with them.

1360
00:58:25.980 --> 00:58:31.320
And this is actually a really good thing that they do here, isn't

1361
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:31.559
it?

1362
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:41.340
Where they let Jake and Ben meet Dax and get to know and accept.

1363
00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:41.940
Look at her.

1364
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:45.900
Well, it means an after image where everybody is trying to adjust

1365
00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:46.260
to her.

1366
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:49.079
He's treating her as if she's always been there.

1367
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:50.460
Yeah, and it's quite nice.

1368
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:52.920
And it's kind of like, well, how does she get back to them?

1369
00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:53.519
Do you know what I mean?

1370
00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:56.340
Like, why doesn't she go off and lead a different life like she's

1371
00:58:56.340 --> 00:58:58.260
supposed to do, like in rejoined or whatever?

1372
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:01.500
She is like a beautiful porcelain doll.

1373
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:02.699
Isn't she gorgeous?

1374
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:03.599
So pretty.

1375
00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:04.739
She's adorable.

1376
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:06.420
And the least...

1377
00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:07.380
It's a haircut as well.

1378
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:09.539
It's the haircut, the little elephant haircut.

1379
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:12.059
The lisp, I think, is beyond adorable.

1380
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.280
I just think she's so sweet.

1381
00:59:14.340 --> 00:59:16.500
And that's little half smile.

1382
00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:22.800
It's, of course she comes back to where Ben is.

1383
00:59:22.860 --> 00:59:23.880
She's lost.

1384
00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:25.440
She's, you know, disoriented.

1385
00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:28.380
She doesn't quite understand what's happened to her.

1386
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:31.559
And so naturally, she goes back to her best friend and that's why

1387
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.639
she ends up back on our show for the year because it would have

1388
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:37.320
been so easy for her to do something else.

1389
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:43.320
The reason why some people object to characters, there are a

1390
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:44.460
couple of episodes later in the season.

1391
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:45.659
You remember the one where she goes home?

1392
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.199
It's basically a murder sheet. terrible.

1393
00:59:49.260 --> 00:59:53.280
And there's one which I really like, but it's very strange field

1394
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:54.420
of fire with giraffe.

1395
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:58.139
It's like a procedural murder mystery, which I think is very good

1396
00:59:58.139 --> 01:00:01.079
but it's so disconnected from anything.

1397
01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:04.800
And I think people are like, well, why are we wasting our time

1398
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:05.219
with this?

1399
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.920
We've got like this big war thing to wrap up.

1400
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:10.619
I don't think they realise sort of 10 episodes were coming where

1401
01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:13.619
they were going to devote, you know, a massive long after that.

1402
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:15.960
But by the end of the season.

1403
01:00:16.019 --> 01:00:19.920
She gets scenes like that one with Worf, where she says to him

1404
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.260
Klingon Empire is dying.

1405
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:23.519
I think it deserves to die.

1406
01:00:23.579 --> 01:00:29.039
You're talking about this, you know, insane piratical society, you

1407
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.699
know, where you kill each other to get ahead, you know, it's old

1408
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:33.420
fashioned. doesn't work anymore.

1409
01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:36.599
And, you know, she's she's pretty damn good.

1410
01:00:36.659 --> 01:00:41.699
I think it's crazy to complain that, and we got that same thing

1411
01:00:41.699 --> 01:00:43.679
with Vig, didn't we?

1412
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:45.119
We've got war episodes.

1413
01:00:45.179 --> 01:00:46.380
We can't be spending time.

1414
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:47.460
How dare you?

1415
01:00:47.460 --> 01:00:48.719
Getting to know...

1416
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:49.739
That's right.

1417
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:50.579
That's right.

1418
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:53.940
We don't need a girl to come along and distract us from all this

1419
01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:54.300
war.

1420
01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:59.880
You know, I just, it's just predictably tedious.

1421
01:00:59.940 --> 01:01:03.960
That's the direct quote, you know, from a corner of fandom.

1422
01:01:04.619 --> 01:01:07.739
No, but I thought that was really fun. really enjoyed that.

1423
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:10.860
I think, well, I really enjoyed watching it the 1st time in

1424
01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:11.519
preparation.

1425
01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:14.639
I think the 2nd episode is if anything, stronger and more

1426
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:15.599
interesting because...

1427
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:16.739
I think it's a better episode.

1428
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:18.239
Yeah, well, do you know what?

1429
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:22.079
It risks disappointing because it's got 3 plots, but I think it

1430
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:23.280
pays them all off pretty well.

1431
01:01:23.340 --> 01:01:28.440
Well, I think the advantage that it has over like a normal 2

1432
01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:34.139
parter is that it has a very low key, like it's a hugely important

1433
01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:38.159
cliffhanger in the context of the show because it's us seeing the

1434
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:39.659
new Dax for the 1st time.

1435
01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:41.880
That's important to us as the audience.

1436
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:45.659
It's important to Ben is going to have repercussions later on.

1437
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:48.179
But that's not the big crisis.

1438
01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:51.239
Like the episode doesn't reach its big crisis and then have to

1439
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:53.699
spend 45 minutes kind of winding down from that.

1440
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:56.519
So this is all set up.

1441
01:01:56.579 --> 01:01:58.860
It's us getting to know the status quo again.

1442
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:02.639
It's getting us to see all of the characters that we like, and

1443
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:05.219
then we start to hear about what they're going to do in the next

1444
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:05.579
episode.

1445
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:09.360
So the next episode is a bit more action oriented and a bit more

1446
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:10.079
fun, I think.

1447
01:02:10.139 --> 01:02:11.400
But that was great.

1448
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:12.719
That was super enjoyable.

1449
01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:14.400
Interesting thing about that.

1450
01:02:14.460 --> 01:02:18.840
Cliffhanger is it's not what a cliffhanger regularly does in Star

1451
01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:21.599
Trek, which is pivot the plot in another direction.

1452
01:02:21.659 --> 01:02:26.519
It's pivoting the characters in another direction in a really sort

1453
01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:28.440
of very cute moment.

1454
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:30.059
Like, think of descent.

1455
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:34.260
That ended with, you know, the Sons of Soon will soon be taken

1456
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:35.579
down the Federation.

1457
01:02:35.579 --> 01:02:37.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1458
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:42.719
I mean, but what this is, this is hugely important to us and she

1459
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:44.519
doesn't really have a plot here.

1460
01:02:44.579 --> 01:02:47.159
So she just tags along with Ben.

1461
01:02:47.219 --> 01:02:51.179
We get to hear her backstory, some of which will be reused, I

1462
01:02:51.179 --> 01:02:53.039
think, in discovery.

1463
01:02:53.099 --> 01:02:55.380
We get to hear her backstory.

1464
01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:58.380
We get to hear a little bit about that, which is what we were kind

1465
01:02:58.380 --> 01:02:59.460
of wondering, I guess.

1466
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:03.599
But then they kind of park her and then they just sort of let her

1467
01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:09.000
be in his plot in Ben's, you know, plot thread.

1468
01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:12.719
So she doesn't derail or deform the episode in any way.

1469
01:03:12.780 --> 01:03:15.480
It doesn't open up a new direction for the episode to go in.

1470
01:03:15.539 --> 01:03:19.199
She just comes in and joins with one of the plots that's already

1471
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:19.920
been established.

1472
01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:23.760
So I think it's a good cliffhanger because it isn't the big crisis

1473
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:24.659
point of the episode.

1474
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:30.059
I've got one question for you then before we ow, and that is, this

1475
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:32.760
is an exceptionally quiet episode.

1476
01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:36.000
Despite the fact that lots of stuff is happening and a lot of

1477
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.460
characters are involved and it's setting up a lot of stuff.

1478
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:39.599
Is that okay?

1479
01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:43.860
Is it okay to open a season this sort of amiably?

1480
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:45.420
Yeah I think so.

1481
01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:50.460
And I think, you know, like last season did the big, let's take

1482
01:03:50.460 --> 01:03:53.699
sort of 7 episodes or something to get the status quo back.

1483
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:58.619
Like it had that big massively long serialised thing and they're

1484
01:03:58.619 --> 01:04:00.360
not going to do that again.

1485
01:04:00.420 --> 01:04:02.880
You know, we're just going to go back into it.

1486
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:06.840
Ira Bear said they were deliberately confounding people.

1487
01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:10.500
They wanted to deliver the unexpected and the time to stand.

1488
01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:14.820
It's, you know, in the war, they go and take on a catch a white

1489
01:04:14.820 --> 01:04:18.179
facility and a Dominion ship and it's all going on in that.

1490
01:04:18.179 --> 01:04:21.780
And they were like, no, we want to start with some ink that's

1491
01:04:21.780 --> 01:04:24.300
character focussed, that is setting things up.

1492
01:04:24.300 --> 01:04:28.920
And that is just a nice gentle leading to what is going to be a

1493
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.019
pretty, you know, loud season.

1494
01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:32.099
Yeah, yeah.

1495
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:33.780
All right.

1496
01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:35.639
So should we, we'll do the 2nd episode then?

1497
01:04:35.699 --> 01:04:37.199
Yeah, let's go.

1498
01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:39.420
I'll count us in.

1499
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:46.139
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

1500
01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:49.019
Do you have a last time on Deep Space 9 here?

1501
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:50.460
I do.

1502
01:04:50.460 --> 01:04:55.019
Most of the same footage from the previous last time, I think so

1503
01:04:55.019 --> 01:04:55.260
so.

1504
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:56.400
And they're always going to do.

1505
01:04:56.460 --> 01:04:58.500
I'd rather this than loads of exposition scenes.

1506
01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:00.780
Well, I know we're going to get those anyway.

1507
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:02.340
That's right.

1508
01:05:02.460 --> 01:05:06.059
But we still, I mean, we're still doing...

1509
01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:07.619
It covers a lot of ground, didn't it?

1510
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:08.639
these pre-titles.

1511
01:05:08.699 --> 01:05:10.559
Like, it's going all through Tears of the Profits, all through

1512
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:13.199
image in the sand, and it's, there's a lot of content there.

1513
01:05:13.260 --> 01:05:16.079
Yeah, I'm still on, we're still on tears of the profits here.

1514
01:05:16.139 --> 01:05:17.340
Now here we are.

1515
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:20.400
And now you're telling me that the wormhole is gone.

1516
01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:22.079
See, that's still the end.

1517
01:05:22.139 --> 01:05:25.079
That's still the end of teaser the prophets, isn't it?

1518
01:05:25.139 --> 01:05:27.659
Yeah, well, to how he's going.

1519
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:32.219
Now we've got a, I want, then I'm sure in the pre-titles will

1520
01:05:32.219 --> 01:05:33.000
learn about Sarah.

1521
01:05:33.059 --> 01:05:36.239
It's going to be everything that's pertinent to the 2nd we've got

1522
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:37.500
doing the dangerous mission.

1523
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:39.000
Now that was from last week, wasn't it?

1524
01:05:39.059 --> 01:05:39.719
Yeah.

1525
01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:43.199
Dangerous enough to ensure Jadzir, our place is stub a car.

1526
01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:43.739
Yeah.

1527
01:05:43.739 --> 01:05:46.920
And then we have so we have that plot.

1528
01:05:46.980 --> 01:05:49.440
Now we have the image in the sand plot.

1529
01:05:49.860 --> 01:05:51.300
Yeah.

1530
01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:53.099
Okay. wife before, mama?

1531
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:53.760
Yeah, yeah.

1532
01:05:53.820 --> 01:05:55.619
And then we have.

1533
01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:58.320
There we go. 2 scary ladies plot.

1534
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:02.159
I know you don't do this, but can you do the line this time?

1535
01:06:02.219 --> 01:06:03.539
Oh, which one is it?

1536
01:06:03.780 --> 01:06:06.179
I mean, you remove those wet.

1537
01:06:06.300 --> 01:06:07.440
No, I can't do it.

1538
01:06:08.099 --> 01:06:09.659
I will.

1539
01:06:09.719 --> 01:06:10.980
Oh, look.

1540
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.579
And now we have now we have little, now we have little Ezri, who I

1541
01:06:14.579 --> 01:06:15.300
just think is adorable.

1542
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:17.699
Little Nicole de Boa, fresh from the dead zone.

1543
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:22.199
Yep She was in a thing called Cube as well, which I saw.

1544
01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:24.179
Cube is a great film.

1545
01:06:24.300 --> 01:06:28.019
I really thought that was cleverly using the resources that they

1546
01:06:28.019 --> 01:06:28.320
had.

1547
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:29.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1548
01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:31.559
It's not hugely expensive, but it's pretty great.

1549
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:35.159
Verbal diarrhoea in this scene is just delightful.

1550
01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:37.079
She's so sweet, isn't she?

1551
01:06:37.139 --> 01:06:40.739
But she calls she calls herself out for it, doesn't she?

1552
01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:41.519
Doesn't she?

1553
01:06:41.579 --> 01:06:45.480
She says, you know, do you even want another Dax in your life?

1554
01:06:45.539 --> 01:06:47.159
you know, will she ever stop talking?

1555
01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:51.539
You know, And then she even asked me.

1556
01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:52.739
She goes, these are all great questions.

1557
01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:54.000
I don't have any answers for you.

1558
01:06:54.059 --> 01:06:56.099
So sweet.

1559
01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:58.199
And then he goes, I'm glad you're here.

1560
01:06:58.260 --> 01:07:00.059
And she goes, I'm so glad you said that.

1561
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:05.219
She's actually struggling a little bit here, acting with her

1562
01:07:05.219 --> 01:07:09.840
acting, but uh, look, and I love how Jake's suddenly taller.

1563
01:07:11.099 --> 01:07:14.099
Jake fancies the arse off her, all right?

1564
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:16.619
Because in after image at the end when they're having wine and

1565
01:07:16.619 --> 01:07:20.519
stuff and he's going, oh, she is cute and Cisco says she's also

1566
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:22.440
900 years old by someone else.

1567
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.460
It would be age appropriate though.

1568
01:07:26.519 --> 01:07:28.019
She is very young. isn't she here?

1569
01:07:28.139 --> 01:07:29.400
Yeah.

1570
01:07:29.460 --> 01:07:33.780
So in the original casting process, their original pitch for the

1571
01:07:33.780 --> 01:07:38.400
character was actually someone um, a little kind of creepy.

1572
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:43.019
They wanted to sort of lean into the sort of Duran style thing.

1573
01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:46.199
So they were looking at someone kind of quirky, funny, and a

1574
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:47.579
little bit sort of off-putting.

1575
01:07:47.639 --> 01:07:53.460
And they apparently they did one audition after another, 100s and

1576
01:07:53.460 --> 01:07:56.400
literally they said it wasn't that there was loads in the

1577
01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:56.760
running.

1578
01:07:56.820 --> 01:07:58.679
No one was in the room.

1579
01:07:58.739 --> 01:07:59.639
Nobody would.

1580
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:02.820
Then she walked in and didn't deliver anything that they wanted

1581
01:08:02.820 --> 01:08:08.340
and they were blown away by her sort of charisma, cute she was.

1582
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:12.300
You know, and they were just like, we need to rethink, look out.

1583
01:08:12.659 --> 01:08:13.739
Not the audition.

1584
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:14.219
Yeah.

1585
01:08:14.219 --> 01:08:17.699
I thought it was sort of slightly odd that they just, like, this

1586
01:08:17.699 --> 01:08:22.140
sounds really trivial, but it's just 2 white women, you know, both

1587
01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:25.199
brunettes, like, yeah.

1588
01:08:25.260 --> 01:08:26.819
At least it was a woman.

1589
01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:28.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

1590
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:31.560
And they had to cast a woman, they can't, you know, lose.

1591
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:35.220
So they, they, uh, Ira Bear literally is quoted as saying we

1592
01:08:35.220 --> 01:08:38.399
cannot just have Kira as the only female character on the show.

1593
01:08:38.460 --> 01:08:41.100
Even though there's lots of extraneous female characters in the

1594
01:08:41.100 --> 01:08:41.279
show.

1595
01:08:41.340 --> 01:08:44.699
You can only, they've only got, what, 2 women in the opening

1596
01:08:44.699 --> 01:08:45.359
titles.

1597
01:08:45.420 --> 01:08:45.840
Yeah.

1598
01:08:45.899 --> 01:08:49.079
But you know, when they did that, what you leave behind

1599
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:54.420
documentary and they had a bit where there's like a sassy song

1600
01:08:54.420 --> 01:08:59.579
played over all the women in DS 9 and they had one and I'm like

1601
01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:01.680
man, there were some strong women in this show, you know?

1602
01:09:01.680 --> 01:09:08.520
Like win, Keiko, Kira, Jazia, every, like we went on Cassidy

1603
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:09.000
Yates.

1604
01:09:09.060 --> 01:09:10.020
Yes, yeah.

1605
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:11.340
She's so good.

1606
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:13.199
I wouldn't take any one of them on.

1607
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:13.859
I'm telling you.

1608
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:14.819
Yeah, yeah, gosh.

1609
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.640
Penny Johnson. superb.

1610
01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:24.239
And I think, like we said in the last episode, ultimately, the

1611
01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:27.180
borough was like a massive success, but I think you did need this

1612
01:09:27.180 --> 01:09:29.340
breaking in period.

1613
01:09:29.399 --> 01:09:29.880
Yeah.

1614
01:09:29.939 --> 01:09:30.600
Yeah.

1615
01:09:30.659 --> 01:09:36.600
But I think like, you know, once the show for, like, it's not, it

1616
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:40.739
was never, ever going to be just about the war for 26 episodes

1617
01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:44.279
however much some people wanted that, because that's not the sort

1618
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:45.779
of show that they want to make.

1619
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:51.300
And, you know, it's about the characters as well, and it's about

1620
01:09:51.300 --> 01:09:55.920
comedy and it's about, you know, space and weird science-y things

1621
01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:56.399
and stuff.

1622
01:09:56.460 --> 01:09:58.560
It's not all going to be about the war.

1623
01:09:58.619 --> 01:10:00.479
And so they're absolutely not wasting time.

1624
01:10:00.539 --> 01:10:03.960
This gives them a shot in the arm and something different to do.

1625
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:09.840
The weird thing in latter-day DS9 is when they do a space

1626
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:10.500
mystery.

1627
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:11.760
Wow.

1628
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:15.000
Do they do this on this show?

1629
01:10:15.180 --> 01:10:18.600
I'm not sure there's many actually in the last couple of years.

1630
01:10:18.659 --> 01:10:21.960
Obviously, they do one little ship, which fit, to me, feels like a

1631
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:22.859
TNG episode.

1632
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:27.600
And children of time, which is a fantastic episode, but it is very

1633
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.600
much, you know, we or descendants, any show could do that.

1634
01:10:30.659 --> 01:10:32.460
Yeah Yeah.

1635
01:10:32.520 --> 01:10:39.600
That children of time, uh, eclipses 2 vics as like, you know, like

1636
01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:44.039
everyone is very annoyed about Janeway killing 2 vics.

1637
01:10:44.100 --> 01:10:48.720
But for goodness sake, look at what Odo does in children of time.

1638
01:10:48.779 --> 01:10:52.800
She goes, she goes through it in the last scene. 8000 people.

1639
01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:56.220
He goes, but I did it for you.

1640
01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:58.979
And she goes, does that make it right?

1641
01:10:59.039 --> 01:10:59.939
That's it.

1642
01:11:00.659 --> 01:11:02.699
That's exactly it.

1643
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:03.659
He kills.

1644
01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:07.020
He disappears 8000 people so he can keep boning gear.

1645
01:11:07.140 --> 01:11:08.100
Odo, though, is it?

1646
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:09.779
It's the it's the older Odo.

1647
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:10.380
Oh okay.

1648
01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:11.340
That's how they get.

1649
01:11:11.399 --> 01:11:12.659
They get away with it. okay.

1650
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:13.859
It's not our...

1651
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:15.899
Oh, look, here he comes on the Klingon ship.

1652
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:16.439
Quark.

1653
01:11:16.500 --> 01:11:17.399
Son of Caldar.

1654
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:19.560
Yeah, that's right.

1655
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:22.319
Do you know what he said?

1656
01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:24.060
Why all the cutlery?

1657
01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:26.760
So good.

1658
01:11:26.819 --> 01:11:28.199
Oh, ow.

1659
01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:29.220
Oh, here we go.

1660
01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:30.000
Yep, there he is.

1661
01:11:30.539 --> 01:11:37.859
Walk is just this wonderful avatar for criticising or pointing out

1662
01:11:37.859 --> 01:11:41.220
things that the audience are thinking about all the other things

1663
01:11:41.220 --> 01:11:45.659
about the Federation.

1664
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.380
If you saw a robin, you go, oh, those ears were a bit pointing, you

1665
01:11:49.380 --> 01:11:49.560
know?

1666
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:54.779
It's, um, I, I like this too.

1667
01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:59.399
There is a generosity to this because these are men and they're

1668
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:00.300
being useless.

1669
01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:02.279
You know, this is their way of doing grief.

1670
01:12:02.340 --> 01:12:05.939
They go off and blow something up because they're kind of, you

1671
01:12:05.939 --> 01:12:06.180
know.

1672
01:12:06.659 --> 01:12:13.500
But you and me just cry each other when, you know, but I like how

1673
01:12:13.500 --> 01:12:14.579
this plays out.

1674
01:12:14.640 --> 01:12:16.560
I think this is a particularly good plot.

1675
01:12:17.579 --> 01:12:23.100
Well, I think I think the moments between Marsawk and Quark are

1676
01:12:23.100 --> 01:12:23.520
wonderful.

1677
01:12:23.640 --> 01:12:27.359
I think Cork's had a little insight into Klingon culture with 2

1678
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:28.439
episodes.

1679
01:12:28.500 --> 01:12:29.939
I mean, he's not completely in the dark.

1680
01:12:30.060 --> 01:12:33.899
But it's where Martok grabs his hand at the end once they've done

1681
01:12:33.899 --> 01:12:34.199
it.

1682
01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:36.300
So just say, yeah, you're one of us, you know.

1683
01:12:36.420 --> 01:12:39.060
That doesn't look very hygienic.

1684
01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:39.899
Honestly, no.

1685
01:12:39.899 --> 01:12:40.920
That's horrible.

1686
01:12:41.100 --> 01:12:43.319
Why isn't there blood pink?

1687
01:12:43.380 --> 01:12:45.180
Anyway, it was pink in Star Trek.

1688
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:46.380
Spice is his hand open.

1689
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:49.079
And then he shoves all the blood over some candle wax.

1690
01:12:49.140 --> 01:12:51.600
Yeah, yeah, definitely unhygienic.

1691
01:12:53.100 --> 01:12:55.140
I can't help but notice.

1692
01:12:55.260 --> 01:12:57.960
Every time we go back to these runabouts in DS9, you know, they're

1693
01:12:57.960 --> 01:12:58.680
10 times the size.

1694
01:12:58.739 --> 01:13:00.119
It's the previous one we saw.

1695
01:13:00.180 --> 01:13:02.220
Yeah, they do get bigger each season, don't they?

1696
01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:03.779
That say, it gets bigger and bigger.

1697
01:13:05.100 --> 01:13:09.840
Oh, Joseph Cisco's a bit nervous about space travel and no one's

1698
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:10.619
flying the ship.

1699
01:13:10.680 --> 01:13:12.359
Just exactly what you were saying earlier.

1700
01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:14.399
So, wait a sec.

1701
01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:17.039
Do they have they built a big runabout?

1702
01:13:17.100 --> 01:13:18.119
Is there a big runabout?

1703
01:13:19.020 --> 01:13:24.479
Yeah, I, this is a, uh, brand new runabout.

1704
01:13:24.539 --> 01:13:25.439
I think for series 7.

1705
01:13:25.859 --> 01:13:28.079
Because it, you remember in Treasury Faith in the Great River.

1706
01:13:28.140 --> 01:13:30.060
They're in the runabout for nearly the whole episode.

1707
01:13:30.119 --> 01:13:31.680
Way in and Odo.

1708
01:13:31.739 --> 01:13:35.159
And we've got a little teleport bay thing.

1709
01:13:35.220 --> 01:13:35.760
What's that called?

1710
01:13:35.819 --> 01:13:36.539
Transport.

1711
01:13:36.600 --> 01:13:37.500
There's even like a room.

1712
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:40.800
Yeah, and a room out the back for a bed.

1713
01:13:40.859 --> 01:13:41.880
There's quite a lot going on in there.

1714
01:13:42.899 --> 01:13:46.380
But did they ever build a big one that you have to see from the

1715
01:13:46.380 --> 01:13:46.739
outside?

1716
01:13:46.739 --> 01:13:50.880
Because I guess Deep Sostein doesn't have a cargo base set. it?

1717
01:13:50.939 --> 01:13:52.800
I don't think so, no.

1718
01:13:52.979 --> 01:13:54.960
Not like the show.

1719
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:56.100
No, it does have a cargo set.

1720
01:13:56.159 --> 01:13:58.859
Do you remember where Nog has to do the itinerary when he wants to

1721
01:13:58.859 --> 01:13:59.640
get into the Federation?

1722
01:13:59.699 --> 01:14:01.560
It's not quite as impressive.

1723
01:14:01.619 --> 01:14:03.899
I think they're putting their money in other places.

1724
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:08.640
TNG didn't mind building a big runabout, what else are they going

1725
01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:09.239
to do, you know?

1726
01:14:09.300 --> 01:14:09.840
That's it.

1727
01:14:10.020 --> 01:14:13.380
I think original series did it as well, didn't it?

1728
01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:14.399
One of the ones, which is.

1729
01:14:14.460 --> 01:14:15.960
Did we see a massive?

1730
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:20.819
Oh, they built, they built practical, um, practical shuttles

1731
01:14:20.819 --> 01:14:23.039
though, in in TNG.

1732
01:14:23.100 --> 01:14:24.300
No, they had that model.

1733
01:14:24.359 --> 01:14:26.640
Remember that adorable model that we saw?

1734
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:29.100
Oh, doomsday machine.

1735
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:30.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1736
01:14:30.420 --> 01:14:31.800
Isn't this lovely?

1737
01:14:31.859 --> 01:14:34.260
Everyone, literally, everyone reacts the same when they find out

1738
01:14:34.260 --> 01:14:36.899
she's a therapist. appalled.

1739
01:14:38.279 --> 01:14:42.000
And then she's like, right, I'm going to be a therapist on DS9.

1740
01:14:42.119 --> 01:14:43.739
They're all having a party and everyone's looking at each other

1741
01:14:43.739 --> 01:14:44.460
like, oh.

1742
01:14:44.460 --> 01:14:50.159
She's the one that's taking care of our psychological stability

1743
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:50.399
now.

1744
01:14:50.460 --> 01:14:51.539
Yeah, yeah.

1745
01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:52.560
Terrifying.

1746
01:14:52.619 --> 01:14:53.760
It's kind of funny, isn't it?

1747
01:14:53.819 --> 01:14:56.579
It is sort of funny because they'd never had a council...

1748
01:14:56.579 --> 01:14:57.420
What choices, though.

1749
01:14:57.539 --> 01:14:59.579
You know, she does make some very strange choices.

1750
01:14:59.579 --> 01:15:02.340
It's only a paper note and she's like, yeah, go on, let him go off

1751
01:15:02.340 --> 01:15:02.880
to Vic's.

1752
01:15:02.939 --> 01:15:04.439
You know, I'm not dealing with this.

1753
01:15:05.340 --> 01:15:07.140
Oh I love this.

1754
01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:10.260
They've already sent a protest of our protest. politics.

1755
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:11.460
Yeah, that's right.

1756
01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:16.979
Yeah, I think this might have been, this might have been the scene

1757
01:15:16.979 --> 01:15:24.000
that, uh, which I just think Admiral Ross is not very good in this

1758
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:26.819
and I think this might be the scene that broke me as far as he was

1759
01:15:26.819 --> 01:15:27.300
concerned.

1760
01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:28.979
He's just not that great.

1761
01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:32.640
Maybe he's just a very stiff politician, you know?

1762
01:15:32.699 --> 01:15:34.920
Maybe he is, maybe.

1763
01:15:34.979 --> 01:15:38.220
I'll bet there's plenty of Admiral Rosses, you know, in the Trump

1764
01:15:38.220 --> 01:15:40.199
you know, administration. probably.

1765
01:15:40.260 --> 01:15:42.840
Just an old white guy.

1766
01:15:42.899 --> 01:15:45.539
Kira's got no time for none of this shit though, is she?

1767
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:46.079
Yeah.

1768
01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:46.800
Yeah.

1769
01:15:46.859 --> 01:15:49.680
She's like, oh, look, what are we going to do?

1770
01:15:49.739 --> 01:15:53.039
Like stop talking and let's stop doing, which is what she does.

1771
01:15:53.159 --> 01:15:54.659
It's kind of interesting, isn't it?

1772
01:15:54.720 --> 01:15:58.560
Just kind of the way that this relationship here works because

1773
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:02.640
ordinarily the person in that office is someone who is part of the

1774
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:07.260
chain of command, whom he can just order around, and now he's

1775
01:16:07.260 --> 01:16:09.779
having to deal with this external person.

1776
01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:11.880
Well, do you know what?

1777
01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:15.420
So iOS is the purpose of this plot.

1778
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:22.500
The entire purpose of it was he wanted to box these 3 races into a

1779
01:16:22.500 --> 01:16:28.380
position where the Romulans and the Bajorans would refuse to back

1780
01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:32.399
down and the Federation had to be the ones that back down at the

1781
01:16:32.399 --> 01:16:35.039
end, which I think is a fair motion, actually.

1782
01:16:35.100 --> 01:16:35.880
Yeah, that is pretty good.

1783
01:16:35.939 --> 01:16:39.060
See, in all those scenes where we keep coming back to them going

1784
01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:42.779
you know, well, she better she better back down because I'm not

1785
01:16:42.779 --> 01:16:43.979
you know, I'm like, okay.

1786
01:16:44.039 --> 01:16:46.260
Who's going to back down out of this?

1787
01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:50.880
And I think it's a good, it's a good ending.

1788
01:16:50.939 --> 01:16:53.819
And you get that lying about, you know, remind me never to play

1789
01:16:53.819 --> 01:16:54.539
poker with you.

1790
01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:55.800
Always a bloody poker.

1791
01:16:56.159 --> 01:16:57.659
Yeah, yeah, that's a bit of crap.

1792
01:16:57.720 --> 01:16:59.100
Oh, okay.

1793
01:16:59.159 --> 01:17:03.539
Now he's starting to hear weird things.

1794
01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:10.140
And it's a doctor, Dr. Wickoff, who we will see is Casey Biggs.

1795
01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:11.819
Is it Biggs, Briggs, Biggs?

1796
01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:14.039
Casey Biggs?

1797
01:17:14.100 --> 01:17:14.460
Big, yeah.

1798
01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:16.859
I believe he's needed in isolation ward.

1799
01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:17.640
Apparently, yeah.

1800
01:17:17.699 --> 01:17:18.180
That's right.

1801
01:17:18.239 --> 01:17:19.800
And so we start to hear more of these.

1802
01:17:19.859 --> 01:17:20.880
I love this.

1803
01:17:20.939 --> 01:17:25.020
So these Starfleet, these are sort of, Do you remember the 1st

1804
01:17:25.020 --> 01:17:31.140
scene of Discovery, where Michelle, Yo, and Saniqua are on the

1805
01:17:31.140 --> 01:17:34.859
planet surface wearing that sort of their special Starfleet?

1806
01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:36.539
I know you as well because I was...

1807
01:17:36.539 --> 01:17:38.159
This prompted you to go off and watch.

1808
01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:38.520
I did.

1809
01:17:38.579 --> 01:17:41.460
It actually made me want to watch it just because I love that

1810
01:17:41.460 --> 01:17:42.239
scene so much.

1811
01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.119
And I love Michelle Yeoh, cousin Michelle so much.

1812
01:17:45.180 --> 01:17:46.020
She's so true.

1813
01:17:46.079 --> 01:17:50.159
There's a beautiful crane shot here, though, which shows the

1814
01:17:50.159 --> 01:17:51.779
expanse of the landscape.

1815
01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:55.920
And it's kind of on a scale we don't really see in 90s trek very

1816
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:56.220
often.

1817
01:17:56.279 --> 01:17:57.180
I really like it.

1818
01:17:57.239 --> 01:17:59.579
I mean, it's still where are we?

1819
01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:00.600
Nevada or something.

1820
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:05.220
Oh, it's a bit different from what we normally see.

1821
01:18:05.220 --> 01:18:07.439
Yeah, look, it's absolutely making an effort.

1822
01:18:07.500 --> 01:18:09.840
I'm not being dismissive at all.

1823
01:18:09.899 --> 01:18:15.960
I unkindly... coined those scene Cisco of Arabia, though, when I

1824
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:18.720
wrote my review because he's got the hood over his head and

1825
01:18:18.720 --> 01:18:21.720
there's lots of scenes of them struggling through the landscape

1826
01:18:21.720 --> 01:18:22.020
you know.

1827
01:18:22.079 --> 01:18:24.960
I mean, do you remember Star Trek 5 and there's all those scenes

1828
01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:26.159
in the desert at the beginning of that?

1829
01:18:26.220 --> 01:18:28.979
Like, that's how this could be done with a movie budget.

1830
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:30.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1831
01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.960
This is a TV budget.

1832
01:18:31.020 --> 01:18:32.520
I think that's a fair step.

1833
01:18:32.579 --> 01:18:34.800
I think they're doing pretty well. they are doing pretty well.

1834
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:38.520
Okay, what's happening here on the Klingon ship now?

1835
01:18:38.579 --> 01:18:41.939
We're just talking about blowing some shit up that they're going

1836
01:18:41.939 --> 01:18:42.479
to do.

1837
01:18:42.539 --> 01:18:46.680
They're going to blow up a shipyard in Jadzia's honour.

1838
01:18:46.739 --> 01:18:47.340
Is that right?

1839
01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:49.140
That's right.

1840
01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:53.279
So the gates of Stovercor will open and she'll be ushered inside

1841
01:18:53.279 --> 01:18:54.359
as a Brave Warrior.

1842
01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:58.859
So we do see Stovercore later, don't we, in Voyager in Barge of

1843
01:18:58.859 --> 01:18:59.220
the Dead?

1844
01:18:59.279 --> 01:18:59.939
Part of the Dates.

1845
01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:02.039
It's a terrific visual as well.

1846
01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:03.420
Yeah, it looks really good.

1847
01:19:03.479 --> 01:19:08.100
It's absolutely the show doing something that looks weird for a

1848
01:19:08.100 --> 01:19:08.699
fucking change.

1849
01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:09.359
It's great.

1850
01:19:09.420 --> 01:19:11.640
Why the fuck would she want to spend eternity there?

1851
01:19:11.699 --> 01:19:12.659
Walk is right.

1852
01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:14.220
Well, it's the barge of the dead.

1853
01:19:14.279 --> 01:19:14.760
I don't know.

1854
01:19:14.819 --> 01:19:17.819
Maybe they have good... ceremony, really.

1855
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:19.020
You know, she's not really there.

1856
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:21.239
No, no, it is for them, isn't it?

1857
01:19:21.300 --> 01:19:22.079
It is just for them.

1858
01:19:22.140 --> 01:19:24.720
It's for them to do something because they're men.

1859
01:19:25.619 --> 01:19:27.420
They need to do something.

1860
01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:30.600
What's great is they need to do something and they do.

1861
01:19:30.659 --> 01:19:33.539
They blow up a shipyard, but they all still end up talking about

1862
01:19:33.539 --> 01:19:34.920
their feelings anyway.

1863
01:19:34.979 --> 01:19:36.779
Yeah, which is nice.

1864
01:19:36.899 --> 01:19:37.979
Yeah.

1865
01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:41.279
So Wharf, so Quag wants to be thanked for coming along.

1866
01:19:42.659 --> 01:19:44.460
Of course he does.

1867
01:19:44.460 --> 01:19:45.960
Because he just can't read the room at all.

1868
01:19:46.020 --> 01:19:47.819
Banked or paid.

1869
01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:48.840
One or the other.

1870
01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:52.800
Oh, Warf's really nasty.

1871
01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:55.380
Yeah, it's being a massive prick here, isn't he?

1872
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:55.920
Yeah.

1873
01:19:55.979 --> 01:19:58.020
I mean, Prickets is the full setting.

1874
01:19:58.260 --> 01:20:01.079
I mean, that's what I said earlier, this episode.

1875
01:20:01.140 --> 01:20:04.199
His job is basically to be wrong all the time.

1876
01:20:04.260 --> 01:20:07.859
And so he's always the one who advocates sort of for a more

1877
01:20:07.859 --> 01:20:11.760
violent response in Star Trek, the Next Generation, and he's the

1878
01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:15.659
one who's the massive dickhead on riser in let he who is out

1879
01:20:15.659 --> 01:20:16.020
there.

1880
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:18.180
I was just about to say that, you know.

1881
01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:20.279
Well, there are levels to his wrongness.

1882
01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:25.739
That is an extreme, a terrible wrong that he commits.

1883
01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:29.100
Whereas here, he's upset and he's hurting and you know, it's kind

1884
01:20:29.100 --> 01:20:32.579
of understandable and he apologises. and he does it in a really

1885
01:20:32.579 --> 01:20:33.239
generous way.

1886
01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:36.840
I think what he ends up saying about them is really quite lovely

1887
01:20:36.840 --> 01:20:38.579
like really something.

1888
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:42.359
I like about that plot as well, is there is a few technobabble

1889
01:20:42.359 --> 01:20:45.119
lines in there, although we've kind of essentially abandoned a lot

1890
01:20:45.119 --> 01:20:47.760
of technobabble, I guess not at this point, because it's more

1891
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:50.340
about the characters, but it's such a simple idea.

1892
01:20:50.399 --> 01:20:53.100
We're going to blow up that sum and it's going to take out that

1893
01:20:53.100 --> 01:20:57.119
shipyard and that's it's a cool idea and it's a simple idea.

1894
01:20:57.180 --> 01:20:59.100
And that's the sort of technobabble I like.

1895
01:20:59.159 --> 01:20:59.939
Yeah, I do too.

1896
01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:03.239
I think that if you need more techno babble than that, you've got

1897
01:21:03.239 --> 01:21:07.319
to simplify what you're doing, like, you shouldn't be creating

1898
01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:11.100
situations that require that much just sitting around talking in

1899
01:21:11.100 --> 01:21:12.420
made up words about shit.

1900
01:21:12.420 --> 01:21:13.979
That's also made up.

1901
01:21:14.100 --> 01:21:15.060
And I'll tell you something.

1902
01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:17.220
Tamar has got a family.

1903
01:21:17.279 --> 01:21:18.600
He's got a wife and children.

1904
01:21:18.659 --> 01:21:21.239
I can tell you this, because they all get executed in the last

1905
01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:23.699
half of the season, by the way you, not correct effects.

1906
01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:26.039
And he's here flirting with this woman on the job.

1907
01:21:26.100 --> 01:21:27.359
Oh, well, there you go.

1908
01:21:27.420 --> 01:21:29.399
He wouldn't have been too sorry when they were executed, I

1909
01:21:29.399 --> 01:21:29.640
suppose.

1910
01:21:31.020 --> 01:21:33.420
I like it when way in goes.

1911
01:21:33.539 --> 01:21:34.560
What is it?

1912
01:21:34.619 --> 01:21:35.819
What a charming woman.

1913
01:21:35.880 --> 01:21:38.340
So funny, isn't it?

1914
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:39.960
I really like that.

1915
01:21:40.020 --> 01:21:41.939
I don't know why.

1916
01:21:41.939 --> 01:21:45.180
It's a funny life. that I love that line.

1917
01:21:45.239 --> 01:21:46.140
Yeah.

1918
01:21:47.579 --> 01:21:52.260
I think Jeffrey Coombs has got the almond shimmer factor of that.

1919
01:21:52.319 --> 01:21:55.380
You can just sell any better dialogue.

1920
01:21:55.439 --> 01:21:55.739
Yeah.

1921
01:21:55.739 --> 01:21:56.279
Yeah.

1922
01:21:56.340 --> 01:21:59.699
So now he's just threatened to execute this lady who's now

1923
01:21:59.699 --> 01:22:00.119
leaving.

1924
01:22:00.180 --> 01:22:02.939
She has to leave or otherwise get executed.

1925
01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:06.300
Yeah, what a pleasant woman. woman. funny.

1926
01:22:08.279 --> 01:22:12.000
Oh, and now, of course, he's got, he's going to tell, he's like

1927
01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:15.359
right, we need, we need the Monak shipyard to win the war. blow

1928
01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:15.479
up.

1929
01:22:15.539 --> 01:22:17.399
That's the one thing that can't blow up in this.

1930
01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:20.159
And we need to take the Chintaka system, which was the boring

1931
01:22:20.159 --> 01:22:25.979
system that they, that they conquered in, uh, tears the profits.

1932
01:22:26.039 --> 01:22:30.600
But didn't I have those fabulous orbital platforms?

1933
01:22:30.659 --> 01:22:31.920
Yeah, that looked really cool.

1934
01:22:32.699 --> 01:22:35.399
Tomorrow's really sweating because none of them are turning on.

1935
01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:38.819
And then at the last an 11th hour, they all turn on and start, you

1936
01:22:38.819 --> 01:22:39.960
know, firing like crazy.

1937
01:22:40.020 --> 01:22:40.800
It's great.

1938
01:22:40.859 --> 01:22:41.880
It is pretty good.

1939
01:22:41.939 --> 01:22:42.539
They do look cute.

1940
01:22:42.600 --> 01:22:46.800
They do have a sense of occasion, I think, latter-day DS night

1941
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:49.140
with some of the special effects.

1942
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:53.760
Like, I think the hero shot in this of the sun going up and the

1943
01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:55.020
shipyard being swept away.

1944
01:22:55.079 --> 01:22:56.699
It's pretty great. pretty good.

1945
01:22:56.760 --> 01:23:01.140
And I think that the visuals, like they made, they made it very

1946
01:23:01.140 --> 01:23:03.600
clear how the battle was going to work.

1947
01:23:03.659 --> 01:23:08.579
Like it's not just a weightless cartoon, that battle in Tears of

1948
01:23:08.579 --> 01:23:09.060
the Prophets.

1949
01:23:09.119 --> 01:23:11.460
Like it is, you know, when they're...

1950
01:23:11.460 --> 01:23:12.359
Oh, strategic, isn't it?

1951
01:23:12.420 --> 01:23:15.000
Yeah, you've got a real sense of how it works, I think.

1952
01:23:15.420 --> 01:23:19.800
Nathan, I was hoping that our relationship was going to be a long

1953
01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:21.899
and happy one, but I'll settle for short and exciting.

1954
01:23:21.960 --> 01:23:23.100
Really?

1955
01:23:23.159 --> 01:23:23.939
Is that it?

1956
01:23:24.600 --> 01:23:28.140
That's what Odo just said to Kira. love that line.

1957
01:23:28.199 --> 01:23:31.859
Yeah, he's very old. obviously he's going to he's going to go with

1958
01:23:31.859 --> 01:23:32.819
her, isn't he, obviously?

1959
01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:33.779
Yeah.

1960
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:35.100
Yeah.

1961
01:23:35.159 --> 01:23:36.899
He's been piling after her for 5 years.

1962
01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:38.100
He's not going to let her go now.

1963
01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:41.640
I really like that too, because obviously they don't end up

1964
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:44.100
together and he does have to end up going home.

1965
01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:49.859
Um, and so leading into this relationship now is absolutely the

1966
01:23:49.859 --> 01:23:53.579
right thing for them to be doing, given that presumably by now

1967
01:23:53.579 --> 01:23:54.720
they know where they're going.

1968
01:23:55.319 --> 01:23:59.039
I'm not sure what's more touchy, though, is the bit where Quark

1969
01:23:59.039 --> 01:24:02.460
says goodbye to him at the airlock or where Kira says goodbye to

1970
01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:03.000
him on the rock.

1971
01:24:03.060 --> 01:24:05.399
I think they're equally touching Yeah, yeah.

1972
01:24:05.460 --> 01:24:07.020
Oh, here we go.

1973
01:24:07.079 --> 01:24:08.460
Back around the same rock again.

1974
01:24:08.520 --> 01:24:10.199
Yeah, that's it.

1975
01:24:10.439 --> 01:24:13.560
I think they filmed a buffy episode there.

1976
01:24:13.619 --> 01:24:16.439
We wish we went off into the desert. did a vision quest.

1977
01:24:16.500 --> 01:24:20.100
And there's that there's that sort of tribal woman going, death is

1978
01:24:20.100 --> 01:24:20.640
your gift.

1979
01:24:20.760 --> 01:24:22.380
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in series.

1980
01:24:22.439 --> 01:24:24.420
I think it was filmed here, you know. could well be.

1981
01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:25.739
A lot of desert.

1982
01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:27.359
They're dragging.

1983
01:24:27.479 --> 01:24:28.439
It's not the same rock there.

1984
01:24:28.439 --> 01:24:29.699
It's in arena, is it?

1985
01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:31.199
No, no, no.

1986
01:24:31.260 --> 01:24:33.600
That's really very, very striking.

1987
01:24:33.659 --> 01:24:35.159
I should watch Arena.

1988
01:24:35.220 --> 01:24:40.140
We had lots of gone in strangely worlds. seriously.

1989
01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:42.600
It's just like, this one is so contained in sets.

1990
01:24:42.659 --> 01:24:45.420
When they're out in an expanse like this, it's just like a breath

1991
01:24:45.420 --> 01:24:46.439
of air, isn't it?

1992
01:24:46.500 --> 01:24:46.859
lovely.

1993
01:24:46.920 --> 01:24:48.180
Yeah, I think so too.

1994
01:24:48.239 --> 01:24:53.640
But, you know, they had a bit of a thing, but whenever they went

1995
01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:54.359
on location.

1996
01:24:54.420 --> 01:24:57.060
They always chose, and they always went out on the hottest day of

1997
01:24:57.060 --> 01:24:57.359
the year.

1998
01:24:57.420 --> 01:25:01.199
So in the ship, it's in the desert, hottest day of the year, in

1999
01:25:01.199 --> 01:25:04.380
indiscretion when Kieran, Dakart, are in the desert, hottest day

2000
01:25:04.380 --> 01:25:04.800
of the year.

2001
01:25:04.859 --> 01:25:07.260
Honestly, all the makeup starts to melt.

2002
01:25:07.319 --> 01:25:09.600
I think that's why they've only sent you...

2003
01:25:09.659 --> 01:25:10.319
Hans have gum.

2004
01:25:10.380 --> 01:25:11.579
Oh, trill.

2005
01:25:11.939 --> 01:25:13.319
Yeah.

2006
01:25:13.319 --> 01:25:14.819
Well, I don't think that's...

2007
01:25:14.819 --> 01:25:18.239
I'm forcing...

2008
01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:20.220
Come on, old man.

2009
01:25:20.279 --> 01:25:22.979
They just seem to have left him behind at this point.

2010
01:25:23.039 --> 01:25:26.100
It's kind of like, all right, you just stay there, Brock will, uh

2011
01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:27.180
will keep doing the episode.

2012
01:25:27.420 --> 01:25:30.600
Well, I think they're leading into this thing they do with Cisco

2013
01:25:30.600 --> 01:25:33.060
every now and again where he's like, he's mad zealot now, isn't

2014
01:25:33.060 --> 01:25:33.180
it?

2015
01:25:33.239 --> 01:25:37.199
He's a bit crazy about this thing that he's come looking for.

2016
01:25:37.800 --> 01:25:39.779
Yeah, that is a...

2017
01:25:39.779 --> 01:25:42.420
It looks like they're in the middle of nowhere. doesn't it?

2018
01:25:42.479 --> 01:25:43.140
It looks quite amazing.

2019
01:25:43.199 --> 01:25:44.039
It is pretty good.

2020
01:25:44.579 --> 01:25:46.199
Oh, okay.

2021
01:25:46.199 --> 01:25:47.039
To Wyckoff.

2022
01:25:47.100 --> 01:25:49.680
Please come to isolation ward 4 immediately.

2023
01:25:49.739 --> 01:25:50.159
Yeah.

2024
01:25:50.159 --> 01:25:53.100
I wonder if that's Michelle Barrett, you know.

2025
01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:54.180
Ah, I don't know.

2026
01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:54.840
Yeah, it could be.

2027
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:55.680
I be.

2028
01:25:55.979 --> 01:25:59.100
It would be quite nice if she was both the announcer and the

2029
01:25:59.100 --> 01:25:59.640
computer.

2030
01:25:59.699 --> 01:26:02.340
Ah, he throws the ball, doesn't he?

2031
01:26:02.399 --> 01:26:08.039
And the ball landed in the, yeah, yeah, where he digs, but that, I

2032
01:26:08.039 --> 01:26:08.819
mean, what happened?

2033
01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:12.960
Remember the ball fell off the piano just like moved off the piano

2034
01:26:12.960 --> 01:26:15.180
in a sort of mysterious way.

2035
01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:16.619
Yeah, here we go.

2036
01:26:16.680 --> 01:26:19.800
You know, did you notice how that desert's been combed?

2037
01:26:19.859 --> 01:26:21.720
No, it's the wind.

2038
01:26:21.779 --> 01:26:24.119
Reminds me of that scene in spaceballs, you know?

2039
01:26:24.180 --> 01:26:26.640
Do you know, in the desert?

2040
01:26:26.699 --> 01:26:28.979
I have never seen space balls, would you believe?

2041
01:26:29.039 --> 01:26:32.520
So they say, well, you comb the desert and they've got a giant

2042
01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:35.159
cone and it's Tim Ross.

2043
01:26:35.220 --> 01:26:35.520
Really?

2044
01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:39.119
You know, do you know how hot it is out here as he's moving this

2045
01:26:39.119 --> 01:26:40.260
massive comb along?

2046
01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:45.239
There is an unfortunate thing here, though, with this very dry

2047
01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:48.180
sand, is that he can't seem to dig up much.

2048
01:26:48.300 --> 01:26:49.920
No, it just goes straight back.

2049
01:26:49.979 --> 01:26:51.539
He's falling in the hole.

2050
01:26:52.560 --> 01:26:54.300
Oh, here we go.

2051
01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:55.680
The cartoon Moon of Derna.

2052
01:26:55.739 --> 01:26:56.640
Yeah, yeah.

2053
01:26:56.699 --> 01:26:57.000
Okay.

2054
01:26:57.060 --> 01:27:00.060
So that's Bajor and that's Derner.

2055
01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:04.920
And what is they reading books on their iPad?

2056
01:27:04.979 --> 01:27:05.699
What are they doing?

2057
01:27:05.760 --> 01:27:08.279
They'll probably be giving a pawn to region.

2058
01:27:08.340 --> 01:27:09.600
I don't know if it's porn.

2059
01:27:12.659 --> 01:27:14.880
No, it's a detective novel.

2060
01:27:14.939 --> 01:27:16.439
Yeah, I go read detective novels.

2061
01:27:16.500 --> 01:27:17.100
Yeah, yeah.

2062
01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:17.520
Okay.

2063
01:27:17.579 --> 01:27:23.159
And he's given this one to Kira because it's a hardest nails, tough

2064
01:27:23.159 --> 01:27:24.479
bitch.

2065
01:27:24.479 --> 01:27:27.119
Oh, of course, because she just has to sort of sit there and kind

2066
01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:28.319
of blockade.

2067
01:27:28.380 --> 01:27:29.159
Right.

2068
01:27:29.220 --> 01:27:31.199
So, oh, okay.

2069
01:27:31.260 --> 01:27:34.619
I think I think the person, the protagonist hates waiting as much

2070
01:27:34.619 --> 01:27:35.399
as Kira does.

2071
01:27:35.460 --> 01:27:36.479
That's the whole point of the scene.

2072
01:27:36.600 --> 01:27:37.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2073
01:27:37.680 --> 01:27:38.340
To make that point.

2074
01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:39.060
Yeah.

2075
01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:40.260
Oh, here we go.

2076
01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:43.979
Look, have you noticed how Cretax in front of Admiral Ralph?

2077
01:27:44.039 --> 01:27:46.020
Yeah, because he's a loser, I've decided.

2078
01:27:46.979 --> 01:27:49.319
Like she's just playing him.

2079
01:27:49.859 --> 01:27:53.760
Oh, do you know, her line when she goes, well, your concern is

2080
01:27:53.760 --> 01:27:56.520
touching, Senator, but I'm not dead yet.

2081
01:27:56.880 --> 01:27:58.739
He's so great.

2082
01:27:59.159 --> 01:28:01.079
Oh, yeah.

2083
01:28:01.140 --> 01:28:02.100
I couldn't love her more.

2084
01:28:03.180 --> 01:28:06.720
Look, look, he's absolutely whipped, isn't he?

2085
01:28:06.840 --> 01:28:08.039
He just can't...

2086
01:28:08.100 --> 01:28:09.720
Yes, I wasn't very happy about it.

2087
01:28:09.779 --> 01:28:11.880
I just have to wear it because I'm useless.

2088
01:28:11.939 --> 01:28:15.720
Have you ever been in this situation when you got 2 women going at

2089
01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:16.079
each other.

2090
01:28:16.140 --> 01:28:18.239
I've been in this situation quite a few times.

2091
01:28:18.300 --> 01:28:19.859
I'll tell you what, I'll be sitting behind as well.

2092
01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:21.000
Yeah, you reckon?

2093
01:28:21.060 --> 01:28:22.680
I reckon...

2094
01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:25.680
Very few people are as fierce as Senator Cretak or whatever her

2095
01:28:25.680 --> 01:28:25.979
name is.

2096
01:28:26.039 --> 01:28:26.939
Is that what you call?

2097
01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:30.359
I love the fact that you've got these these, you know, terrifying

2098
01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:34.979
Romulan warburs and these pathetic little Bajoran scout ships or

2099
01:28:34.979 --> 01:28:35.399
whatever they are.

2100
01:28:35.460 --> 01:28:37.020
But you got Kira.

2101
01:28:37.079 --> 01:28:39.119
Keras in front of it all.

2102
01:28:39.180 --> 01:28:40.500
So be scared anyway.

2103
01:28:41.520 --> 01:28:42.960
Yes.

2104
01:28:43.020 --> 01:28:45.659
But Kira's so used to being the underdog, isn't she?

2105
01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:48.779
Like, she was the young doctor in the occupation.

2106
01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:50.939
So this is this is her playing field.

2107
01:28:51.060 --> 01:28:55.739
So this is, again, the sort of blocking that I like where one

2108
01:28:55.739 --> 01:28:58.140
character goes over to the window and looks out while the other

2109
01:28:58.140 --> 01:28:59.340
one continues to talk to them.

2110
01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:01.079
That's through this.

2111
01:29:01.140 --> 01:29:05.039
I like how Cretog looks just off camera and goes, geez, she's

2112
01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:06.060
bluffing.

2113
01:29:06.899 --> 01:29:10.439
Yeah, God let brought me to sit down, you people.

2114
01:29:10.500 --> 01:29:12.119
He was into kill a mockingbird.

2115
01:29:12.180 --> 01:29:13.020
Have some respect.

2116
01:29:13.560 --> 01:29:17.159
But he's not really contributing anything, is he?

2117
01:29:17.220 --> 01:29:18.720
He's just being Brock Peters.

2118
01:29:18.779 --> 01:29:19.920
He's just...

2119
01:29:19.920 --> 01:29:22.380
Yeah, but he's just... such an exhausting an old man.

2120
01:29:22.439 --> 01:29:23.939
You think that they're just wasting him.

2121
01:29:24.180 --> 01:29:28.800
O Bear says that the reason why, he wanted the whole family along

2122
01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:29.819
on this thing.

2123
01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:34.260
Like, like, he, he was like, you know, I'm a father, and my son

2124
01:29:34.260 --> 01:29:37.920
was going on this very important quest of self-discovery about my

2125
01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:40.199
ex-wife, a way to girlfriend.

2126
01:29:40.260 --> 01:29:42.899
I would absolutely go along to see, and that makes sense.

2127
01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:45.779
I just wish you'd got a bit more to do with all.

2128
01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:46.859
Yeah, yeah.

2129
01:29:46.920 --> 01:29:48.600
I just looked dead.

2130
01:29:48.659 --> 01:29:52.199
Well, I mean, all of these plots are really fairly straightforward

2131
01:29:52.199 --> 01:29:52.739
aren't they?

2132
01:29:52.859 --> 01:29:54.840
Like, aren't they?

2133
01:29:54.899 --> 01:29:58.859
I think I think the complexity comes from the fact that there's

2134
01:29:58.859 --> 01:30:00.840
just so much going on in the 2nd half of the episode.

2135
01:30:00.899 --> 01:30:02.939
Like they all ramp up at the same time.

2136
01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:03.779
Yeah, yeah.

2137
01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:10.079
Yeah, he comes, he comes quite complaining about the gar.

2138
01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:12.359
Oh great.

2139
01:30:12.420 --> 01:30:14.819
Yeah, but I like how Martok chews him out as well.

2140
01:30:15.239 --> 01:30:17.220
Yeah, well, he's telling him off here.

2141
01:30:17.279 --> 01:30:18.300
Yeah.

2142
01:30:18.359 --> 01:30:20.640
Doesn't he say what, do you not want me here as well?

2143
01:30:20.699 --> 01:30:22.199
That's right.

2144
01:30:22.260 --> 01:30:24.600
Why don't you go and do this mission on your own?

2145
01:30:24.659 --> 01:30:25.560
Let's see how good you do.

2146
01:30:25.859 --> 01:30:28.140
Yeah, here we go.

2147
01:30:28.199 --> 01:30:33.720
So it is a proper confrontation and yes, and he apologises.

2148
01:30:33.779 --> 01:30:36.840
The look on everyone's face when he says he wants to apologise.

2149
01:30:36.899 --> 01:30:37.560
It's really good.

2150
01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:38.399
Good, isn't it?

2151
01:30:38.460 --> 01:30:42.119
Like, it is properly good, and I love I love what he says.

2152
01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:46.739
You know, I do wonder, you know, if that's this is how our

2153
01:30:46.739 --> 01:30:49.319
overalls feel, you know, because I very often say, well, Nathan

2154
01:30:49.319 --> 01:30:49.920
said this.

2155
01:30:49.979 --> 01:30:53.399
Nathan said that, you know, we were talking on untitled Star Trek

2156
01:30:53.399 --> 01:30:53.939
project.

2157
01:30:53.939 --> 01:30:55.560
Nathan said this very witty thing.

2158
01:30:55.619 --> 01:30:58.020
You must think, for God's sake, I feel like I'm in a bloody

2159
01:30:58.020 --> 01:30:59.220
relationship with Nathan, you know.

2160
01:31:02.460 --> 01:31:06.539
Now, Quark just pushes it just a little bit too far.

2161
01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:08.399
No.

2162
01:31:08.399 --> 01:31:09.479
You know what?

2163
01:31:09.539 --> 01:31:11.039
That's his character, is it?

2164
01:31:11.100 --> 01:31:13.859
He doesn't really, you know, he will always say what he thinks no

2165
01:31:13.859 --> 01:31:14.279
matter what.

2166
01:31:14.340 --> 01:31:18.600
So Palmer is the word for lover in Klingon, because we had looking

2167
01:31:18.600 --> 01:31:20.340
for Palmer in all the wrong places.

2168
01:31:20.399 --> 01:31:22.500
They say that, yeah, don't they?

2169
01:31:22.500 --> 01:31:24.300
Yeah, they say yeah.

2170
01:31:24.359 --> 01:31:26.880
Oh no, they say you were the aggressor.

2171
01:31:29.939 --> 01:31:31.619
Cork's like, go on.

2172
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:33.239
I wanna hear some more. come on.

2173
01:31:33.300 --> 01:31:35.460
More apology. was enjoying that.

2174
01:31:35.520 --> 01:31:37.439
Yeah, the war time.

2175
01:31:37.439 --> 01:31:37.859
That's all.

2176
01:31:37.920 --> 01:31:38.880
Come on.

2177
01:31:38.939 --> 01:31:40.020
I am pleased that you are here.

2178
01:31:40.079 --> 01:31:40.859
That's so good.

2179
01:31:42.779 --> 01:31:47.399
Wharf is big enough to say that he is wrong.

2180
01:31:47.460 --> 01:31:48.960
You know, he score the ball.

2181
01:31:49.020 --> 01:31:54.359
And but it's not just I was wrong, but in, it's like you were

2182
01:31:54.359 --> 01:31:58.260
hugely important to her, you know, it's like they're saying, you

2183
01:31:58.260 --> 01:32:01.739
know, he originally said, you know, you, you don't deserve to be

2184
01:32:01.739 --> 01:32:02.100
here.

2185
01:32:02.159 --> 01:32:03.180
None of you understood her.

2186
01:32:03.239 --> 01:32:07.020
None of you, you know, measured up to me as a man, you know, blah

2187
01:32:07.020 --> 01:32:08.039
blah, blah, blah, blah.

2188
01:32:08.100 --> 01:32:11.399
But is like, no, you are hugely, hugely important.

2189
01:32:11.460 --> 01:32:12.659
This looks so good.

2190
01:32:12.720 --> 01:32:15.600
I do like this shipyard.

2191
01:32:15.659 --> 01:32:16.979
The shipyard, yeah.

2192
01:32:17.039 --> 01:32:19.920
It looks, does it look a bit like a cupboard?

2193
01:32:20.579 --> 01:32:22.560
swept away at the end.

2194
01:32:22.619 --> 01:32:25.800
I like the fact they throw in a couple of Gem Hadar ships as

2195
01:32:25.800 --> 01:32:25.920
well.

2196
01:32:25.979 --> 01:32:27.420
So it's a bit of fiery garret on.

2197
01:32:27.479 --> 01:32:29.579
And obviously a console explodes.

2198
01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:32.819
Jesus Christ can't have an action sequence without it.

2199
01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:33.479
So bad.

2200
01:32:33.539 --> 01:32:34.560
It's the worst thing.

2201
01:32:34.619 --> 01:32:37.680
But actually, no, but watching this one, because it's less about

2202
01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:40.800
the console exploded, they kind of fill the set full of smoke and

2203
01:32:40.800 --> 01:32:42.300
it's all looking a bit chaotic.

2204
01:32:42.359 --> 01:32:46.140
I think the lighting in those Klingon ships is appropriately moody

2205
01:32:46.140 --> 01:32:48.720
that you can make the action sequences look a bit.

2206
01:32:49.859 --> 01:32:52.260
There's always smoke in there as well, isn't, isn't there?

2207
01:32:52.319 --> 01:32:53.699
Do you not remember that?

2208
01:32:53.819 --> 01:32:58.739
Marvellous one in, um, oh, God, once more onto the breach, where

2209
01:32:58.739 --> 01:33:02.399
cause on the bridge, and he's got dementia, and he's going, attack

2210
01:33:02.399 --> 01:33:06.899
the Federation, and the, uh, the Klingon ship is literally flying

2211
01:33:06.899 --> 01:33:08.039
through the atmosphere.

2212
01:33:08.159 --> 01:33:11.640
It's got to a point where the special effects are bang on.

2213
01:33:12.420 --> 01:33:14.159
Oh here we go.

2214
01:33:14.220 --> 01:33:17.039
He has a pencil in his hand somehow.

2215
01:33:17.100 --> 01:33:18.960
And now I...

2216
01:33:19.020 --> 01:33:20.520
I think that's really there, is it?

2217
01:33:20.579 --> 01:33:21.779
Is that pencil really good?

2218
01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:23.699
No, I don't think it is, but I think it's a good choice.

2219
01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:24.119
Yeah.

2220
01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:28.140
So here is Damar out of makeup.

2221
01:33:28.260 --> 01:33:32.100
So in Far Beyond the Stars, we had a lot of people out of makeup

2222
01:33:32.100 --> 01:33:32.579
didn't we?

2223
01:33:32.640 --> 01:33:35.399
But not Damar, but Casey Biggs, wasn't he that, right?

2224
01:33:35.460 --> 01:33:37.319
So they're kind of redressing the bump.

2225
01:33:37.380 --> 01:33:37.859
Probably wait.

2226
01:33:37.979 --> 01:33:38.699
Oi, what about me?

2227
01:33:38.760 --> 01:33:39.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2228
01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:40.560
So he gets to have a go.

2229
01:33:40.619 --> 01:33:44.939
I really like this padded cell set with all the script.

2230
01:33:44.939 --> 01:33:46.140
I like the walls as well.

2231
01:33:46.199 --> 01:33:46.920
Yeah.

2232
01:33:46.979 --> 01:33:51.840
And it's sort of lit in a way that it's just like normal, like, you

2233
01:33:51.840 --> 01:33:53.340
know, the lighting we see every day.

2234
01:33:53.399 --> 01:33:54.779
DSI is not lit like that, is it?

2235
01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:56.760
It's all kind of lighting in the sets.

2236
01:33:57.239 --> 01:33:59.640
It's a strange choice, I have to say.

2237
01:33:59.699 --> 01:34:02.819
Like, I know he has a breakdown, doesn't he, at the end of Far

2238
01:34:02.819 --> 01:34:06.359
Beyond the Stars, where he says, you know, it was real.

2239
01:34:06.420 --> 01:34:08.880
All of these these places were real.

2240
01:34:08.939 --> 01:34:09.960
I made them.

2241
01:34:10.020 --> 01:34:10.680
I wrote them.

2242
01:34:13.739 --> 01:34:19.020
Yeah, so I don't know, institutionalising him, I guess, we're

2243
01:34:19.020 --> 01:34:21.060
still telling the story of just...

2244
01:34:21.119 --> 01:34:23.340
He was sent off in an ambulance, wasn't he?

2245
01:34:23.340 --> 01:34:24.119
At the end of that one.

2246
01:34:24.180 --> 01:34:24.600
Yeah.

2247
01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:30.359
So this is where, but then because this is a vision to prevent him

2248
01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:34.739
from opening the box, so it's sent from the par raves or

2249
01:34:34.739 --> 01:34:34.979
something.

2250
01:34:34.979 --> 01:34:36.479
This is the par raves.

2251
01:34:36.539 --> 01:34:39.779
Yeah, but does that mean they're far beyond the stars vision was a

2252
01:34:39.779 --> 01:34:41.279
parade vision as well.

2253
01:34:41.340 --> 01:34:42.180
I don't think so.

2254
01:34:42.239 --> 01:34:49.739
So, uh, canonically, Betty Russell really existed, um, because...

2255
01:34:49.739 --> 01:34:51.479
Only because Kurtzman Trek says...

2256
01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:52.319
He wrote that book.

2257
01:34:52.500 --> 01:34:55.199
The, the, what's it called?

2258
01:34:55.260 --> 01:34:59.880
The Elysian Kingdom, he wrote that book from... from that episode

2259
01:34:59.880 --> 01:35:05.039
which is a really fun episode that no doubt very serious fanboys

2260
01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:06.300
think is stupid.

2261
01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:07.739
But I think it's really great.

2262
01:35:08.460 --> 01:35:14.819
But, and I did like the conceit that he, he wrote it, you know

2263
01:35:14.819 --> 01:35:19.920
that that Deep Space 9 is a, you know, from classic golden era

2264
01:35:19.920 --> 01:35:22.260
science fiction and stuff, um, you know.

2265
01:35:22.260 --> 01:35:24.239
He's doing what you always say, isn't he?

2266
01:35:24.300 --> 01:35:26.340
is a story. written by people.

2267
01:35:26.399 --> 01:35:28.619
It's literally telling us that, you know.

2268
01:35:28.739 --> 01:35:29.220
That's right.

2269
01:35:29.279 --> 01:35:33.300
And this is, I just love the bit where he writes opens it.

2270
01:35:33.359 --> 01:35:34.560
He opens the box.

2271
01:35:34.800 --> 01:35:38.039
Look, you couldn't get more literal than that.

2272
01:35:41.100 --> 01:35:44.819
We had a lovely sweep then, a Romulan ship's approaching down.

2273
01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:47.039
I do like the design of them.

2274
01:35:47.100 --> 01:35:50.880
So we see them in the finale to series one, don't we?

2275
01:35:50.880 --> 01:35:53.640
of Star Trek.

2276
01:35:53.640 --> 01:35:54.359
Generation?

2277
01:35:54.420 --> 01:35:54.659
Yeah.

2278
01:35:54.720 --> 01:35:55.800
The neutral side.

2279
01:35:56.520 --> 01:35:57.180
They can only do one.

2280
01:35:57.239 --> 01:35:58.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2281
01:35:58.739 --> 01:36:00.300
We've just seen about 12 of them.

2282
01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:04.140
Well, that's right, because they scanned it, I suppose, and made a

2283
01:36:04.140 --> 01:36:05.819
computer model of it, but it looks so good.

2284
01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:10.140
Like, we're not obviously where CGI would be, but I think it's

2285
01:36:10.140 --> 01:36:13.979
getting far more ambitious, like, towards the end of GS9.

2286
01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:15.779
Yeah, I think you can tell proper stories.

2287
01:36:15.960 --> 01:36:19.560
Like, do you remember in Sacrifice of Angels, when the ships, the

2288
01:36:19.560 --> 01:36:21.779
Defiance weaving through all those ships explosing.

2289
01:36:21.779 --> 01:36:25.380
In some ways, it's a little more dynamic.

2290
01:36:25.439 --> 01:36:28.079
Sometimes I think than the space battles are now.

2291
01:36:28.140 --> 01:36:30.359
I think they try and make it look prettier now.

2292
01:36:30.420 --> 01:36:34.319
Yeah, I think too, they they want to sell that the ships are like

2293
01:36:34.319 --> 01:36:38.579
battleships or submarines or something, you know, they they take a

2294
01:36:38.579 --> 01:36:41.220
while to turn around, so the battles are a little bit more

2295
01:36:41.220 --> 01:36:41.939
stately.

2296
01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:46.920
But yeah, that those battles are sort of particularly dynamic, I

2297
01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:47.159
think.

2298
01:36:47.220 --> 01:36:49.859
I mean, you know, there are still things they can do now that they

2299
01:36:49.859 --> 01:36:51.000
couldn't do back then.

2300
01:36:51.119 --> 01:36:52.739
But I think this is pretty good.

2301
01:36:52.800 --> 01:36:56.399
Do you know what she's saying there when she says to send a Greek

2302
01:36:56.399 --> 01:36:58.920
tech, you know, your concern is touching, but I'm not dead yet.

2303
01:36:58.979 --> 01:37:00.239
Don't you come at me.

2304
01:37:00.300 --> 01:37:03.779
All right, I'm the Cardassian single-hand and be all right for 20

2305
01:37:03.779 --> 01:37:04.079
years.

2306
01:37:04.739 --> 01:37:13.739
Yeah, this is probably the most, is this the most kind of perilous

2307
01:37:13.739 --> 01:37:15.420
one, you know, like I don't think.

2308
01:37:15.479 --> 01:37:19.020
It's repetitive because we keep going back to Cretac going, I'm

2309
01:37:19.020 --> 01:37:20.699
not gonna back down, you know?

2310
01:37:20.699 --> 01:37:24.840
The best thing about it is the actress is good enough to sell

2311
01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:26.399
those lines. she is really good.

2312
01:37:26.460 --> 01:37:28.380
Because it could have been really, really bad.

2313
01:37:28.439 --> 01:37:29.520
No, I think she's feeling strong.

2314
01:37:29.699 --> 01:37:33.359
Admiral Ross just doesn't say anything, which is best for all

2315
01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:33.899
concerned, really.

2316
01:37:33.960 --> 01:37:37.500
I think she's like a really particularly scary school librarian

2317
01:37:37.500 --> 01:37:38.699
Senator Cretack.

2318
01:37:38.760 --> 01:37:43.140
Like, she's not going to put up with any of your shit and she's

2319
01:37:43.140 --> 01:37:45.539
just sort of says it how she sees it.

2320
01:37:45.779 --> 01:37:49.560
It's a great scene, you know, where she gets where she gets taken

2321
01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:52.979
down because it's in front of the whole Romulan Senate and she sat

2322
01:37:52.979 --> 01:37:55.800
there in front of them and they detail everything that she's done

2323
01:37:55.800 --> 01:37:58.319
and you see the look on her face of how she's been played for the

2324
01:37:58.319 --> 01:38:00.060
entire episode. is really great.

2325
01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:05.399
So, but, you know, like this is the closest that we get to any

2326
01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:10.680
opposition to Ben's mission, right?

2327
01:38:10.739 --> 01:38:11.460
Yeah.

2328
01:38:11.460 --> 01:38:14.460
Well, I suppose Jake was thrown back by a bolt of lightning, a

2329
01:38:14.460 --> 01:38:16.380
second ago, I guess. but yes.

2330
01:38:16.500 --> 01:38:24.300
And then Cisco reaches for the box and dot, dot, dot.

2331
01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:26.159
He even bothered to put the dot, dot, dot in there.

2332
01:38:26.220 --> 01:38:28.800
You know, like, I love the, you know what?

2333
01:38:28.859 --> 01:38:32.159
The drama of that wobbling paint brush.

2334
01:38:32.819 --> 01:38:34.380
Roller.

2335
01:38:34.439 --> 01:38:36.420
So is he going to dig it up?

2336
01:38:36.479 --> 01:38:37.680
Is he going to not dig it up?

2337
01:38:37.739 --> 01:38:40.739
The thing is, the sand is still so fine.

2338
01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:41.880
He can't quite bear it.

2339
01:38:42.300 --> 01:38:45.180
Guess what happens when you dig in a desert?

2340
01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:49.739
So this is the only so this one's cleared up fairly quickly.

2341
01:38:49.800 --> 01:38:53.159
The Stovercore one, do they meet any opposition to speak off?

2342
01:38:53.220 --> 01:38:53.579
Not really.

2343
01:38:53.640 --> 01:38:55.079
They just blow up the thing and go home.

2344
01:38:55.140 --> 01:38:56.579
No, no, no.

2345
01:38:56.640 --> 01:38:58.439
Yeah, no, because they fail, don't they?

2346
01:38:58.500 --> 01:38:59.760
And then the ships come after him.

2347
01:38:59.880 --> 01:39:01.739
That's kind of where your action is there.

2348
01:39:02.460 --> 01:39:07.079
But what's nice is, is they're doing all the suspense at the same

2349
01:39:07.079 --> 01:39:08.039
time with all three.

2350
01:39:08.279 --> 01:39:10.260
So who's going to back down with Kira and thingy?

2351
01:39:10.319 --> 01:39:12.180
Is he going to open the box?

2352
01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:14.399
Will they be able to blow up the shipyard?

2353
01:39:14.460 --> 01:39:15.539
The answer is, of course.

2354
01:39:15.600 --> 01:39:17.399
Yes, everything will be fine.

2355
01:39:17.520 --> 01:39:24.840
When I say that Avery Brooks plays an insane man, Extremely

2356
01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:25.500
adeptly.

2357
01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:27.420
I think he's had a lot of practice in real life.

2358
01:39:27.479 --> 01:39:28.800
He's so great, isn't he?

2359
01:39:28.859 --> 01:39:29.520
I love him.

2360
01:39:29.579 --> 01:39:34.439
He's such a funny guy Yeah, look at this all sort of circling

2361
01:39:34.439 --> 01:39:35.279
around a sun.

2362
01:39:35.340 --> 01:39:36.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2363
01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:37.739
It's getting quite hot in here.

2364
01:39:37.800 --> 01:39:41.699
Okay, so we're doing the thing. press the button. general.

2365
01:39:41.760 --> 01:39:42.899
Just take me out.

2366
01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:44.100
Take me out of the oven, cookie.

2367
01:39:44.159 --> 01:39:44.699
Yeah, cooked.

2368
01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:45.239
Yeah, yeah.

2369
01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:46.079
So cute.

2370
01:39:46.260 --> 01:39:48.899
I suppose we've got to have one failure.

2371
01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:50.579
It would have been a bit too easy, wouldn't it?

2372
01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:55.020
Yeah I'm not sure if I would, you know, last time a Klingon ship

2373
01:39:55.020 --> 01:39:57.960
went that close to a son, they ended up back in the 20th century.

2374
01:39:58.020 --> 01:39:58.979
Yeah, that's true.

2375
01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:00.060
That is true.

2376
01:40:00.119 --> 01:40:05.399
Back in the 90s. sort of strange polystyrene heads came out.

2377
01:40:05.460 --> 01:40:06.840
So odd.

2378
01:40:07.859 --> 01:40:10.140
Could we do a movie soon, please?

2379
01:40:10.199 --> 01:40:11.100
We must do one.

2380
01:40:11.159 --> 01:40:12.899
We really need to do a movie, I think.

2381
01:40:12.960 --> 01:40:14.159
I watched...

2382
01:40:14.220 --> 01:40:15.659
We're doing the length of a movie.

2383
01:40:15.720 --> 01:40:17.640
That's exactly right. could do a movie.

2384
01:40:17.699 --> 01:40:23.579
I watched Star Trek Beyond the other night and it might have been

2385
01:40:23.579 --> 01:40:25.439
last night, actually, and really enjoyed it.

2386
01:40:25.500 --> 01:40:29.039
It's really fun, but I think that's the best of the three, you

2387
01:40:29.039 --> 01:40:29.220
know.

2388
01:40:29.279 --> 01:40:29.880
I do too.

2389
01:40:29.939 --> 01:40:30.779
Isn't that funny?

2390
01:40:30.840 --> 01:40:31.739
does as well.

2391
01:40:32.100 --> 01:40:35.579
It's got lots of good character stuff and lots of comedy.

2392
01:40:35.699 --> 01:40:36.539
Yeah, yeah.

2393
01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:38.579
And it's just not overblown like that.

2394
01:40:38.640 --> 01:40:39.779
No, it feels very Star Trek.

2395
01:40:39.899 --> 01:40:40.920
It feels...

2396
01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:43.439
It feels like it does feel like an original series episode with

2397
01:40:43.439 --> 01:40:46.500
the most immense budget you can ever get. and sort of visual

2398
01:40:46.500 --> 01:40:47.520
imagination as well.

2399
01:40:47.579 --> 01:40:49.920
It is visually pretty interesting, I think.

2400
01:40:49.979 --> 01:40:53.279
Do you say Avery Brooks' muscles bulging there?

2401
01:40:53.340 --> 01:40:54.359
Look at him.

2402
01:40:54.420 --> 01:40:55.140
Marvel.

2403
01:40:55.140 --> 01:40:55.800
He's a fit man.

2404
01:40:55.920 --> 01:40:58.140
Honestly, that's the best version of that, yeah.

2405
01:41:01.199 --> 01:41:04.380
Oh, okay, there's a bit of a weird moment there because she goes

2406
01:41:04.380 --> 01:41:06.000
you know, you promised Jadzia.

2407
01:41:06.060 --> 01:41:08.399
You'd make things right, but she was dead in a coffin.

2408
01:41:08.460 --> 01:41:09.539
How did she hear?

2409
01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:10.140
That's right.

2410
01:41:10.199 --> 01:41:11.220
How did she hear that?

2411
01:41:11.279 --> 01:41:14.579
She watched the previously on Star Trek.

2412
01:41:14.640 --> 01:41:16.800
Deep Space 9.

2413
01:41:16.859 --> 01:41:17.939
Oh, shit.

2414
01:41:17.939 --> 01:41:19.380
Oh, you go in all space.

2415
01:41:19.380 --> 01:41:19.920
Here you go.

2416
01:41:19.920 --> 01:41:22.439
Opens the box.

2417
01:41:22.560 --> 01:41:23.520
Oh, look at it.

2418
01:41:23.579 --> 01:41:24.300
But you know what?

2419
01:41:24.359 --> 01:41:25.560
It's his handwriting.

2420
01:41:25.619 --> 01:41:28.859
Do you know what the they made him write?

2421
01:41:28.859 --> 01:41:31.140
Yeah, yeah. stress the whole set.

2422
01:41:31.380 --> 01:41:34.500
I think the payoff to the Kira plot.

2423
01:41:34.560 --> 01:41:40.140
It isn't, um, Ross making them back down is her face when she sees

2424
01:41:40.140 --> 01:41:41.159
the wormhouse back.

2425
01:41:41.220 --> 01:41:46.020
I just love that moment. she's just like, I'm absolutely doing the

2426
01:41:46.020 --> 01:41:46.319
right thing.

2427
01:41:46.380 --> 01:41:50.279
Oh, so the beam then goes past opens the wormhole.

2428
01:41:50.340 --> 01:41:54.960
Oh, Parra gets spat out and just sort of vanishes.

2429
01:41:55.020 --> 01:41:55.739
Oh, okay.

2430
01:41:55.800 --> 01:41:56.039
Yeah.

2431
01:41:56.100 --> 01:41:56.579
All right.

2432
01:41:56.640 --> 01:41:59.399
So, so that, okay.

2433
01:41:59.460 --> 01:42:00.479
Yeah, that makes sense.

2434
01:42:00.539 --> 01:42:04.020
Do you know, I do, yeah, I know you say about the power rate, and

2435
01:42:04.020 --> 01:42:05.159
I know they are a bit sheer.

2436
01:42:05.220 --> 01:42:10.140
But it does, it does bring, uh, do cut and win together for like 8

2437
01:42:10.140 --> 01:42:13.560
episodes, which is kind of pretty great. in a strange place.

2438
01:42:13.619 --> 01:42:16.800
Yeah, but when they're together, I've seen each other. amazing.

2439
01:42:16.859 --> 01:42:18.119
It's pretty awesome, is it?

2440
01:42:19.380 --> 01:42:24.659
A blind, a blind, beggar will elicit the sympathy of the Bajoran

2441
01:42:24.659 --> 01:42:25.500
people, throw him out.

2442
01:42:27.539 --> 01:42:29.520
Oh, yeah, look at that.

2443
01:42:29.520 --> 01:42:30.600
They're going to fight.

2444
01:42:30.659 --> 01:42:32.640
Is that because it's back?

2445
01:42:32.699 --> 01:42:35.699
Because it's back, it inspires her.

2446
01:42:36.840 --> 01:42:38.220
Yeah.

2447
01:42:38.279 --> 01:42:39.539
I'm not sure.

2448
01:42:39.600 --> 01:42:42.779
Yeah, well, no, I think I think she's like, this is confirmation

2449
01:42:42.779 --> 01:42:43.739
that I'm absolutely right.

2450
01:42:43.739 --> 01:42:46.500
If you're doing the right thing, because she's a religious nutcase

2451
01:42:46.500 --> 01:42:46.800
as well.

2452
01:42:46.859 --> 01:42:47.520
Bless her.

2453
01:42:47.699 --> 01:42:49.319
Do you know what?

2454
01:42:49.380 --> 01:42:54.180
We had one more cut back to Cretack then, who was, I'm afraid that

2455
01:42:54.180 --> 01:42:55.680
Colonel was run out of time.

2456
01:42:55.739 --> 01:42:56.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2457
01:42:56.819 --> 01:42:59.159
She talks a big game, doesn't she?

2458
01:42:59.220 --> 01:43:01.800
Oh, Senator Crazy. the best line in the whole thing.

2459
01:43:01.859 --> 01:43:03.239
Where he just goes, what are you waiting for?

2460
01:43:03.300 --> 01:43:03.960
Fire.

2461
01:43:06.539 --> 01:43:09.840
Or maybe it's, can we go home now?

2462
01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:13.020
So we're going to blow up these guys?

2463
01:43:13.079 --> 01:43:14.579
Can we leave?

2464
01:43:17.100 --> 01:43:20.279
In equal on every Klingon show.

2465
01:43:20.340 --> 01:43:22.079
Oh, look at this.

2466
01:43:22.140 --> 01:43:23.220
Look that looks really great.

2467
01:43:23.279 --> 01:43:24.779
Oh, I don't know about that bit.

2468
01:43:24.840 --> 01:43:25.920
But like, yes, okay.

2469
01:43:25.979 --> 01:43:26.520
No, no.

2470
01:43:26.520 --> 01:43:29.279
They look a bit bare bones, so stupid, yeah.

2471
01:43:29.340 --> 01:43:29.819
Yeah, yeah.

2472
01:43:29.880 --> 01:43:32.039
A couple of... they really are.

2473
01:43:32.159 --> 01:43:33.779
They're trying to make it look...

2474
01:43:33.899 --> 01:43:37.920
Oh, and look, there's a Cardassian ship, cartoon of a Cardassian

2475
01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:38.460
ship.

2476
01:43:38.520 --> 01:43:41.460
It literally just envelops the whole thing.

2477
01:43:41.579 --> 01:43:43.199
Yeah, yeah, that is cool.

2478
01:43:43.260 --> 01:43:44.880
And that's what offset the dominion back a bit.

2479
01:43:44.939 --> 01:43:46.560
If that is producing a load of ships.

2480
01:43:46.680 --> 01:43:47.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2481
01:43:47.520 --> 01:43:52.619
Well, we saw we saw some of those Cardassian chips in like space

2482
01:43:52.619 --> 01:43:53.520
doc or whatever.

2483
01:43:53.579 --> 01:43:58.079
Yeah, that's adorable, Martok and Quark.

2484
01:43:58.439 --> 01:44:00.420
That's really true.

2485
01:44:00.479 --> 01:44:03.239
And it absolutely it does what the episode needed to do.

2486
01:44:03.300 --> 01:44:07.380
It needed to justifiably allow us to move on from jazz.

2487
01:44:07.439 --> 01:44:08.340
Yeah, yeah.

2488
01:44:08.399 --> 01:44:08.939
Yeah.

2489
01:44:08.939 --> 01:44:10.140
And it achieves that.

2490
01:44:10.380 --> 01:44:14.399
Yeah, and ties in with the war, like it's a war type of thing.

2491
01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:19.079
He says these Klingon lines with such sincerity, doesn't he?

2492
01:44:19.140 --> 01:44:20.159
He really does.

2493
01:44:20.220 --> 01:44:22.260
He, uh, he's...

2494
01:44:22.319 --> 01:44:24.239
I think at this point, he might think he is a Klingon.

2495
01:44:24.300 --> 01:44:25.859
He's done so much that trick at this point.

2496
01:44:25.979 --> 01:44:29.460
What's he done seven, you know, 10, 11 seasons?

2497
01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:30.779
11 seasons.

2498
01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:34.319
And he's going to do one films and...

2499
01:44:34.319 --> 01:44:37.140
Yeah, like he did the, because he's in Star Trek 6 as well.

2500
01:44:37.619 --> 01:44:42.479
Yeah, so he's very important to the whole project.

2501
01:44:42.539 --> 01:44:44.939
I don't I don't want to keep saying this about all the female

2502
01:44:44.939 --> 01:44:48.359
characters, but bloody hell, Nanar Vistor is beautiful, isn't

2503
01:44:48.359 --> 01:44:48.539
she?

2504
01:44:48.600 --> 01:44:49.500
She really is.

2505
01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:52.800
Admiral Ross is not.

2506
01:44:52.859 --> 01:44:54.000
No, no.

2507
01:44:54.060 --> 01:44:55.680
He's not very good either.

2508
01:44:55.739 --> 01:44:59.640
So, I still don't, how did we resolve this?

2509
01:44:59.699 --> 01:45:01.859
We just sort of sat there for a while and then...

2510
01:45:01.859 --> 01:45:03.720
Well, it's off screen as well.

2511
01:45:03.779 --> 01:45:06.000
Yeah, that's a bit crap, isn't it, I think?

2512
01:45:06.060 --> 01:45:10.380
Basically, he basically said, you know, pull back otherwise, we

2513
01:45:10.380 --> 01:45:11.340
won't have an alliance anymore.

2514
01:45:11.399 --> 01:45:12.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2515
01:45:12.239 --> 01:45:14.640
We started it in the 1st place. right.

2516
01:45:14.699 --> 01:45:16.079
With that lie thing.

2517
01:45:16.140 --> 01:45:16.560
Oops.

2518
01:45:16.619 --> 01:45:21.239
I didn't mean to mention that Now, I have got a few things to say

2519
01:45:21.239 --> 01:45:24.359
about Deborah Lacy in this scene who is delivering all of her

2520
01:45:24.359 --> 01:45:26.579
dialogue because she's a spicy person.

2521
01:45:27.119 --> 01:45:27.600
Yeah.

2522
01:45:27.600 --> 01:45:29.520
But she tones it down.

2523
01:45:29.579 --> 01:45:32.399
So as the season goes on, she comes back again and again and

2524
01:45:32.399 --> 01:45:32.579
again.

2525
01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:36.479
Do you know what the most old her best moment and the ultimate

2526
01:45:36.479 --> 01:45:41.460
moment of soap opera in DS9 is just as Cisco is about to put the

2527
01:45:41.460 --> 01:45:43.140
ring on Cassidy's finger.

2528
01:45:43.199 --> 01:45:44.399
No, right?

2529
01:45:44.460 --> 01:45:48.600
It goes to a flash and into the wormhole and she's like, this is

2530
01:45:48.600 --> 01:45:50.520
not meant to be.

2531
01:45:50.520 --> 01:45:52.020
This is not linear, Benjamin.

2532
01:45:53.640 --> 01:45:55.680
It's so good.

2533
01:45:55.739 --> 01:45:57.659
Oh my god, it's pure soap. love it.

2534
01:45:57.899 --> 01:46:00.600
And he basically says, fuck off, doesn't he?

2535
01:46:00.659 --> 01:46:01.800
Because I'm going to marry her anyway.

2536
01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:06.119
So, yeah, and so what's the cost emoji?

2537
01:46:06.180 --> 01:46:07.500
Is that a parre?

2538
01:46:07.560 --> 01:46:10.260
No, the cost emoji is the power if it just got spat out of the

2539
01:46:10.260 --> 01:46:10.739
wormhouse.

2540
01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:11.460
Oh, that guy.

2541
01:46:12.060 --> 01:46:14.880
The one that was in, it was the one that was in Dakart.

2542
01:46:14.939 --> 01:46:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2543
01:46:16.020 --> 01:46:17.939
And then went into the wormhole and closed it.

2544
01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:18.539
Okay.

2545
01:46:18.600 --> 01:46:19.020
All right.

2546
01:46:19.079 --> 01:46:23.100
I think the whole time we've been having this adventure, there's

2547
01:46:23.100 --> 01:46:25.739
been a celestial battle occurring within the wormhole.

2548
01:46:25.800 --> 01:46:28.260
Which, unfortunately, we didn't have...

2549
01:46:28.319 --> 01:46:29.460
But we do get to see it later.

2550
01:46:29.699 --> 01:46:32.159
Cost of imagination.

2551
01:46:32.220 --> 01:46:33.899
Yeah, there's lots of It'd be better than the effects.

2552
01:46:33.960 --> 01:46:37.859
A lot of people firing beams out of their stomachs at people, I

2553
01:46:37.859 --> 01:46:38.880
think, probably.

2554
01:46:38.939 --> 01:46:42.359
No, no, I remember back in the day, you know, in Sacrifice of

2555
01:46:42.359 --> 01:46:45.600
Angels, they have a vision where he's saying to the prophets, you

2556
01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:48.119
know, you've got to stop the Dominion ships coming through the

2557
01:46:48.119 --> 01:46:53.100
wormhole and we're cut into DS9 and it's defiant and all these

2558
01:46:53.100 --> 01:46:53.760
different locations.

2559
01:46:53.819 --> 01:46:56.340
Well, this is a cheaper version where they're just going to

2560
01:46:56.340 --> 01:46:58.500
various parts of Joseph's restaurant.

2561
01:46:58.560 --> 01:46:59.340
Yeah, yeah.

2562
01:46:59.399 --> 01:47:02.159
But I think that's probably a pretty good choice anyway.

2563
01:47:02.220 --> 01:47:06.300
I mean, remember in the very 1st episode where we see them and, you

2564
01:47:06.300 --> 01:47:09.960
know, like we're in their quarters in the Cisco's quarters where

2565
01:47:09.960 --> 01:47:15.779
Jennifer is killed and you're on the bridge with Jake, you know

2566
01:47:15.779 --> 01:47:16.979
and stuff like that.

2567
01:47:17.039 --> 01:47:19.920
Like it has always been that.

2568
01:47:20.159 --> 01:47:24.300
This is a little bit more kind of just 2 people talking to one

2569
01:47:24.300 --> 01:47:26.039
another than previous.

2570
01:47:26.039 --> 01:47:28.380
Which is kind of what this is.

2571
01:47:28.439 --> 01:47:31.500
It's supposed to be a moment between Cisco and his mother.

2572
01:47:31.560 --> 01:47:32.819
So you can't make it two.

2573
01:47:32.880 --> 01:47:38.520
And so she becomes, she basically becomes our profit character

2574
01:47:38.520 --> 01:47:42.779
from here on in, and she's played by one person.

2575
01:47:43.439 --> 01:47:47.699
You know, just, you know, turn some fancy lights on Admiral Ross

2576
01:47:47.699 --> 01:47:51.119
and get him to deliver the lines and suddenly he's a prophet.

2577
01:47:51.420 --> 01:47:56.460
Even Deborah Lacy, who I was reading some interviews with her, just

2578
01:47:56.460 --> 01:47:58.199
adored playing this show.

2579
01:47:58.319 --> 01:48:01.079
And she said, and she said, there's some lines that she had

2580
01:48:01.079 --> 01:48:04.500
throughout this season, in the episode she was in, that stuck to

2581
01:48:04.500 --> 01:48:06.840
her to this day, because she's the one with all the, you know, sort

2582
01:48:06.840 --> 01:48:09.840
of profound, prophetic dialogue, you know.

2583
01:48:10.140 --> 01:48:12.180
Oh, this is great.

2584
01:48:12.239 --> 01:48:13.380
Yeah, isn't it?

2585
01:48:13.500 --> 01:48:16.739
This is him absolutely like, you know, picking up the kid.

2586
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:17.880
All of that.

2587
01:48:17.939 --> 01:48:23.340
Oh my god, that fucking child in sacrifice.

2588
01:48:23.399 --> 01:48:25.560
No, tears of the prophets.

2589
01:48:25.619 --> 01:48:27.000
Tears of the prophets, rather, yeah.

2590
01:48:27.060 --> 01:48:29.760
You have to bring the prophets back.

2591
01:48:29.819 --> 01:48:31.199
That was so bad.

2592
01:48:31.260 --> 01:48:38.460
I'm just getting vibes from that scene. this Wolf, we need to

2593
01:48:38.460 --> 01:48:38.699
talk.

2594
01:48:39.300 --> 01:48:40.979
The hell's that?

2595
01:48:41.039 --> 01:48:43.500
And it's like, they're all kind of horrified.

2596
01:48:46.800 --> 01:48:50.579
I like that blocking, though, of them all coming together and

2597
01:48:50.579 --> 01:48:51.539
going, well, who's that?

2598
01:48:51.600 --> 01:48:55.680
And looking over to her, you know, kind of, she sort of doesn't

2599
01:48:55.680 --> 01:48:58.380
quite know what she's in for, which is kind of great.

2600
01:48:58.439 --> 01:48:59.159
Oh, look.

2601
01:48:59.279 --> 01:49:01.979
And so that's promising next episode.

2602
01:49:02.039 --> 01:49:03.000
That's what I object to.

2603
01:49:03.060 --> 01:49:07.199
Is that line where he goes, just when you thought things couldn't

2604
01:49:07.199 --> 01:49:07.739
get more interesting.

2605
01:49:07.800 --> 01:49:10.079
A little bit on the nose, Odo.

2606
01:49:10.140 --> 01:49:10.739
Yeah, yeah, thanks.

2607
01:49:10.739 --> 01:49:15.300
Next thing you know, they'll be singing the best is yet to come

2608
01:49:15.300 --> 01:49:16.079
before an arc.

2609
01:49:16.140 --> 01:49:19.260
But I think that I love that stuff.

2610
01:49:19.319 --> 01:49:22.619
You know, I'm absolutely here for cars changes and watching how

2611
01:49:22.619 --> 01:49:23.699
they get handled and stuff.

2612
01:49:23.760 --> 01:49:27.779
It's one of the great pleasures of TV and when does when else does

2613
01:49:27.779 --> 01:49:28.199
it happen?

2614
01:49:28.260 --> 01:49:31.500
It happens mid Voyager, doesn't it, in 90s straight?

2615
01:49:31.560 --> 01:49:32.520
7 comes in.

2616
01:49:32.579 --> 01:49:32.819
Yeah.

2617
01:49:32.880 --> 01:49:35.159
Yeah, that's about...

2618
01:49:35.220 --> 01:49:37.800
I guess Tasha dying at the end of series one.

2619
01:49:37.920 --> 01:49:40.260
But nobody replaced her, did they?

2620
01:49:40.319 --> 01:49:42.060
Oh, Dr. Pulaski?

2621
01:49:42.119 --> 01:49:45.420
Oh, she just appeared and then disappeared and we never knew

2622
01:49:45.420 --> 01:49:46.020
anything about it.

2623
01:49:46.079 --> 01:49:49.680
It's so weird, you know, about Dr. Pulaski because everybody hated

2624
01:49:49.680 --> 01:49:49.979
her.

2625
01:49:50.039 --> 01:49:52.439
Moldar hated being on TNG.

2626
01:49:52.500 --> 01:49:54.060
The cast hated her being there.

2627
01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:55.800
All the characters hated her.

2628
01:49:55.859 --> 01:49:57.359
I absolutely loved her.

2629
01:49:57.420 --> 01:49:59.220
Yeah, I think people do like her.

2630
01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:00.420
I think she is pretty great.

2631
01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:04.079
But again, it's a sort of weird kind of thing to happen, isn't

2632
01:50:04.079 --> 01:50:04.260
it?

2633
01:50:04.380 --> 01:50:07.319
And they don't handle it all that well because they don't quite

2634
01:50:07.319 --> 01:50:08.159
know what they're doing.

2635
01:50:08.220 --> 01:50:08.939
I guess.

2636
01:50:09.060 --> 01:50:12.300
They're not telling a coherent story at that point.

2637
01:50:12.359 --> 01:50:14.640
They're just doing Star Trek episodes, I suppose.

2638
01:50:15.180 --> 01:50:20.760
Do you know the joy of talking about that two-parter with you is I

2639
01:50:20.760 --> 01:50:24.239
feel like we just get to talk about a load of stuff that we don't

2640
01:50:24.239 --> 01:50:25.079
talk about elsewhere.

2641
01:50:25.140 --> 01:50:30.060
It's such a, it's such a unique 90s trek show.

2642
01:50:30.119 --> 01:50:30.600
Yeah.

2643
01:50:30.600 --> 01:50:32.819
Like, like, we'll talk about Avoyager.

2644
01:50:32.880 --> 01:50:33.779
We'll talk about TNG.

2645
01:50:33.840 --> 01:50:36.899
We'll talk about space problems and terrible designed aliens and

2646
01:50:36.899 --> 01:50:37.439
all this.

2647
01:50:37.500 --> 01:50:39.420
We didn't mention none of that here, didn't we?

2648
01:50:39.479 --> 01:50:42.600
No, I mean, like, there's still things to make fun of, and it

2649
01:50:42.600 --> 01:50:45.239
still Star Trek, and it's still, there's a base level of

2650
01:50:45.239 --> 01:50:48.060
cheesiness implied by that, but that's why we're here.

2651
01:50:48.119 --> 01:50:51.960
Oh, there's a high level achieving this in there, aren't they?

2652
01:50:52.020 --> 01:50:55.859
But I think that's really, really just properly enjoyable.

2653
01:50:55.920 --> 01:50:58.140
And it is what you, you said.

2654
01:50:58.199 --> 01:51:03.359
I think that the move into serialised storytelling allows us to

2655
01:51:03.359 --> 01:51:07.560
feel like we're staying in a coherent world with people and

2656
01:51:07.560 --> 01:51:08.699
spending time with them.

2657
01:51:08.760 --> 01:51:11.699
And I think it works really, really well.

2658
01:51:11.760 --> 01:51:18.060
And it's neither of the other 2 big shows attempt at maybe sort of

2659
01:51:18.060 --> 01:51:22.380
enterprise does a little bit, like once it's exhausted itself at

2660
01:51:22.380 --> 01:51:23.399
the end of series two.

2661
01:51:23.460 --> 01:51:27.239
It also does coherent serialised storytelling.

2662
01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:30.779
And then that straight away where when Star Trek comes back with

2663
01:51:30.779 --> 01:51:36.000
Star Trek Discovery, it's absolutely one long sort of 15 episode

2664
01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:37.800
story or something, basically.

2665
01:51:38.220 --> 01:51:40.319
That's how it comes back.

2666
01:51:40.380 --> 01:51:41.760
And I'm glad that it does.

2667
01:51:42.239 --> 01:51:48.060
I said to you that I think this is like an ideal mission statement

2668
01:51:48.060 --> 01:51:49.979
for the series of DS 9.

2669
01:51:50.039 --> 01:51:53.220
It's telling us new things about established characters.

2670
01:51:53.340 --> 01:51:56.220
It's introducing new characters.

2671
01:51:56.220 --> 01:52:00.960
It's establishing how serialised the show is going to be.

2672
01:52:01.020 --> 01:52:07.619
It's setting up a ton of stuff, characters, the alcoholism, Cretac

2673
01:52:07.619 --> 01:52:11.279
the cult of the par raves, all this stuff that's paid off later

2674
01:52:11.279 --> 01:52:11.699
on.

2675
01:52:11.760 --> 01:52:13.979
And it's just a bloody good time as well.

2676
01:52:14.039 --> 01:52:18.300
I mean, it's it's a little different for DF Night to start as

2677
01:52:18.300 --> 01:52:19.920
softly as this.

2678
01:52:19.979 --> 01:52:21.960
But I think it's good telly.

2679
01:52:22.020 --> 01:52:23.220
I think it's really good telly.

2680
01:52:23.279 --> 01:52:28.739
Yeah, I'm not I'm not super jazzed by how that the Kira plot

2681
01:52:28.739 --> 01:52:31.619
resolved itself so conveniently.

2682
01:52:31.680 --> 01:52:36.600
And when I spoke to you, like soon after I'd been watching it, I

2683
01:52:36.600 --> 01:52:42.600
just expressed surprise by how, how incredibly soapy it was, how

2684
01:52:42.600 --> 01:52:43.500
and I love that.

2685
01:52:43.560 --> 01:52:45.479
I'm absolutely on board for it.

2686
01:52:45.539 --> 01:52:46.619
Is that a bad thing?

2687
01:52:46.680 --> 01:52:49.020
No, it absolutely isn't a bad thing.

2688
01:52:49.079 --> 01:52:49.739
It's really great.

2689
01:52:49.859 --> 01:52:52.920
And so I thought that was just tremendously enjoyable.

2690
01:52:52.979 --> 01:53:00.300
And, you know, they had done a big giant, long serialised arc that

2691
01:53:00.300 --> 01:53:04.979
disrupted the status quo of the show and separated the characters

2692
01:53:04.979 --> 01:53:07.739
from me. and did all sorts of new, interesting things.

2693
01:53:07.800 --> 01:53:12.060
And so it was nice to see them all kind of, you know, Ben had gone

2694
01:53:12.060 --> 01:53:15.840
off with Jake, but basically we're all kind of together doing

2695
01:53:15.840 --> 01:53:17.819
things and hanging out and stuff.

2696
01:53:17.880 --> 01:53:18.840
I love it.

2697
01:53:18.899 --> 01:53:25.800
But as well, like, you said to me, uh, DS9 informs discovery in a

2698
01:53:25.800 --> 01:53:29.699
lot of ways, and, you know, let's be honest, discovery is a

2699
01:53:29.699 --> 01:53:31.560
massive soap opera.

2700
01:53:31.680 --> 01:53:33.000
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

2701
01:53:33.060 --> 01:53:36.000
Yeah, it pours on soap melodrama sometimes.

2702
01:53:36.060 --> 01:53:39.359
Oh, that one episode where they were all saying goodbye before the

2703
01:53:39.359 --> 01:53:40.260
end of the series too.

2704
01:53:40.319 --> 01:53:43.500
And everyone's weeping and hugging and I'm like, all the stuff

2705
01:53:43.500 --> 01:53:46.140
about her mother, you know, like all of that.

2706
01:53:46.199 --> 01:53:48.180
You just fucking get with it already.

2707
01:53:48.300 --> 01:53:50.819
Stop emoting all over the place.

2708
01:53:50.880 --> 01:53:55.739
But I think it means we care about the characters in discovery, and

2709
01:53:55.739 --> 01:53:58.619
I think it means we care about the characters in DS9 because

2710
01:53:58.619 --> 01:53:59.939
they're given this much focus.

2711
01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:03.840
And essentially, like series 7 is one long soap opera.

2712
01:54:03.899 --> 01:54:08.760
With galactic consequences, but it's their characters that we're

2713
01:54:08.760 --> 01:54:09.239
here for, really.

2714
01:54:13.920 --> 01:54:20.220
All right, it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode.

2715
01:54:20.279 --> 01:54:24.840
And so I'm here on the Randomiser at Untitled Star Trek Project

2716
01:54:24.119 --> 01:54:29.100
com slash Randomiser, and I have chosen 2 series.

2717
01:54:29.460 --> 01:54:31.920
Okay, I'm excited.

2718
01:54:31.979 --> 01:54:36.239
So they are the 1st 2 series of the Kurtzman era.

2719
01:54:36.300 --> 01:54:41.340
So Star Trek Discovery and Short Treks.

2720
01:54:41.399 --> 01:54:43.739
Okay. these usually go quite well together.

2721
01:54:43.800 --> 01:54:44.819
Okay, all right.

2722
01:54:44.880 --> 01:54:45.359
Let's do that.

2723
01:54:45.420 --> 01:54:46.260
So let's see how it works.

2724
01:54:46.380 --> 01:54:49.380
You haven't been to Kurtzman for, oh, good 6 episodes now, I

2725
01:54:49.380 --> 01:54:49.560
think.

2726
01:54:49.619 --> 01:54:50.520
Yeah, yeah.

2727
01:54:50.579 --> 01:54:54.300
We've done a reasonable bit of 90s strike and a quick excursion

2728
01:54:54.300 --> 01:54:55.859
into the original series.

2729
01:54:55.920 --> 01:54:57.779
So let's see how we get on.

2730
01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:02.819
Now the big problem here is that I'm not very good at episode

2731
01:55:02.819 --> 01:55:03.659
titles.

2732
01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:13.020
So this is Star Trek Discovery series one, episode 14, So it's the

2733
01:55:13.020 --> 01:55:15.000
2nd last episode.

2734
01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:17.340
Possible, we are still in the mirror universe.

2735
01:55:17.399 --> 01:55:18.060
I can't remember.

2736
01:55:18.119 --> 01:55:20.760
The war without the war within.

2737
01:55:20.819 --> 01:55:22.199
Okay.

2738
01:55:22.319 --> 01:55:25.920
I don't remember anything at all about that That series is so

2739
01:55:25.920 --> 01:55:27.420
serialised, though.

2740
01:55:27.479 --> 01:55:31.680
It's actually a bit hard to tell where exactly we are there, so

2741
01:55:31.680 --> 01:55:32.819
I'm going to press one again.

2742
01:55:32.939 --> 01:55:36.359
I think that's the episode where all the Mirror Universe stuff

2743
01:55:36.359 --> 01:55:38.819
comes to a head and then the last episode, isn't it?

2744
01:55:38.880 --> 01:55:42.300
Where I think they chip back it. yeah Yeah, I think that's it.

2745
01:55:42.359 --> 01:55:45.119
Oh, that might be where Lorke gets killed and stuff.

2746
01:55:45.180 --> 01:55:46.260
All right, no.

2747
01:55:46.319 --> 01:55:51.899
I think it's the one where Lawker and Jojo have a massive punch up

2748
01:55:51.899 --> 01:55:53.279
and he dies at the end.

2749
01:55:53.340 --> 01:55:57.840
He falls into the incinerator thing, the reactor.

2750
01:55:57.899 --> 01:55:58.380
All right.

2751
01:55:58.439 --> 01:55:59.340
Only way to go.

2752
01:55:59.399 --> 01:56:00.479
So good. so great.

2753
01:56:00.539 --> 01:56:01.739
Well, she is too.

2754
01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:04.800
Yeah, she is, but he's the sweatiest captain of them all.

2755
01:56:04.859 --> 01:56:05.399
He's awesome.

2756
01:56:05.460 --> 01:56:06.239
Right.

2757
01:56:06.239 --> 01:56:07.979
You love a best...

2758
01:56:08.039 --> 01:56:13.199
Oh, speaking about overwrought things and people's mother, the

2759
01:56:13.199 --> 01:56:17.340
next one is series two, episode 10, the Red Angel.

2760
01:56:17.399 --> 01:56:22.079
So that's obviously about the mother coming back.

2761
01:56:22.140 --> 01:56:25.500
We need to do series 2 because that's our Curtisman season, you've

2762
01:56:25.500 --> 01:56:27.899
got issues with, and I want to hear what you've got to say.

2763
01:56:27.960 --> 01:56:30.960
Yeah, it does irritate me a little bit that season, but it also

2764
01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:35.579
features Anson Mount as Captain Spock.

2765
01:56:35.640 --> 01:56:36.539
Yeah, yeah.

2766
01:56:36.600 --> 01:56:38.039
And hotspot as well.

2767
01:56:38.100 --> 01:56:39.420
Hot is incredible.

2768
01:56:39.479 --> 01:56:43.079
Yeah, you know, I, like I said, I watched Star Trek Beyond last

2769
01:56:43.079 --> 01:56:46.380
night and I think I like Ethan Peck better than Zachary Quinto.

2770
01:56:46.439 --> 01:56:48.899
And I do think Zachary Quinto is good.

2771
01:56:48.960 --> 01:56:52.380
Like I think he's good casting, but Ethan's a lot prettier.

2772
01:56:52.439 --> 01:56:53.460
What do you reckon?

2773
01:56:53.520 --> 01:56:54.060
The Red Angel?

2774
01:56:54.119 --> 01:56:54.899
I'm going to press it again.

2775
01:56:55.260 --> 01:56:59.340
Okay, seriously. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2776
01:56:59.460 --> 01:57:02.520
Series 4, episode 4 all is possible.

2777
01:57:03.420 --> 01:57:05.100
I have no idea.

2778
01:57:05.460 --> 01:57:14.279
So this is actually the one where Tilly leaves, uh, or it's her

2779
01:57:14.279 --> 01:57:15.239
last episode.

2780
01:57:15.300 --> 01:57:19.680
No, she's back a bit and she will be back next year, but it's her

2781
01:57:19.680 --> 01:57:25.859
last episode as a regular and it is such an incredible Star Trek

2782
01:57:25.859 --> 01:57:26.579
episode.

2783
01:57:26.640 --> 01:57:28.020
It's so Star Trek-y.

2784
01:57:28.079 --> 01:57:31.800
It could have just been a Star Trek, the Next Generation episode.

2785
01:57:31.859 --> 01:57:34.140
It's so crazily Trad.

2786
01:57:34.199 --> 01:57:35.760
Really fun.

2787
01:57:35.819 --> 01:57:39.899
No, there's something that you and I do when we choose these

2788
01:57:39.899 --> 01:57:43.920
random episodes as I hype up all the 90s episodes and you hype up

2789
01:57:43.920 --> 01:57:44.939
all the Christmas episodes.

2790
01:57:45.000 --> 01:57:46.979
Disappointment abounds.

2791
01:57:47.039 --> 01:57:49.739
So we've done enough 90 straight for the time being.

2792
01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:50.819
So I'm pressing it again.

2793
01:57:50.880 --> 01:57:53.220
Okay, we'll definitely do this one.

2794
01:57:53.399 --> 01:57:56.460
I can't remember exactly where we are, but it is season one

2795
01:57:56.460 --> 01:57:58.680
episode 12, vaulting ambition.

2796
01:57:59.159 --> 01:58:01.680
I think that's the mirror universe as well.

2797
01:58:01.739 --> 01:58:03.840
I think it might be in the Mary universe by then.

2798
01:58:04.079 --> 01:58:07.199
There'll be campness and action.

2799
01:58:07.260 --> 01:58:08.819
Torture machine.

2800
01:58:08.880 --> 01:58:10.739
Probably a lesbian or 2 as well.

2801
01:58:10.800 --> 01:58:11.760
Yeah, yeah.

2802
01:58:11.819 --> 01:58:13.439
That's the normal way these things.

2803
01:58:13.500 --> 01:58:14.159
What do you think?

2804
01:58:14.220 --> 01:58:16.020
That sounds absolutely delightful.

2805
01:58:16.079 --> 01:58:16.739
All right.

2806
01:58:16.800 --> 01:58:17.279
We'll do it.

2807
01:58:17.340 --> 01:58:18.119
Let's do it.

2808
01:58:25.680 --> 01:58:29.880
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

2809
01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:31.079
and Nathan Bottomley.

2810
01:58:31.140 --> 01:58:34.260
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find

2811
01:58:34.260 --> 01:58:36.600
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

2812
01:58:36.659 --> 01:58:40.560
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

2813
01:58:40.560 --> 01:58:41.760
by Cameron Lamb.

2814
01:58:41.819 --> 01:58:45.720
This episode was recorded on the 30th of August 2022 and released

2815
01:58:45.720 --> 01:58:47.340
on the 16th of September.

2816
01:58:47.399 --> 01:58:51.239
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Discovery, vaulting

2817
01:58:51.239 --> 01:58:51.539
ambition.

2818
01:59:09.600 --> 01:59:13.199
Okay, I'm going to check it, but it's a bad idea, fighting

2819
01:59:13.199 --> 01:59:18.840
ambition. vaulting because I think that's the one.

2820
01:59:18.899 --> 01:59:20.340
Oh, was he one before?

2821
01:59:21.359 --> 01:59:23.640
Faulting ambition.

2822
01:59:24.300 --> 01:59:25.920
Discovery.

2823
01:59:29.520 --> 01:59:32.640
Is the vaulting ambition a quote from Macbeth?

2824
01:59:33.180 --> 01:59:36.659
I don't know, but Jammer gives it 3 out of four.

2825
01:59:36.720 --> 01:59:37.439
Bloody hell.

2826
01:59:37.500 --> 01:59:38.399
He hates everything.

2827
01:59:38.460 --> 01:59:41.340
Faulting ambition is an entertaining.

2828
01:59:42.899 --> 01:59:45.239
An entertaining hour.

2829
01:59:45.300 --> 01:59:48.539
Burnham, mirror universe version of herself, and Philippa

2830
01:59:48.539 --> 01:59:49.079
Giorgio.

2831
01:59:49.140 --> 01:59:50.159
Oh my god, it's going to be amazing.

2832
01:59:50.220 --> 01:59:51.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2833
01:59:51.720 --> 01:59:53.520
It's got cousin Michelle in it.

2834
01:59:53.579 --> 01:59:55.800
Wait a second. why is that taking so long?

2835
01:59:56.460 --> 01:59:58.380
Vaulting.

2836
02:00:01.500 --> 02:00:05.640
The production, design and costumes aboard, Emperor Giorgio's

2837
02:00:05.640 --> 02:00:08.520
palatial flagship, the Charon are impressive.

2838
02:00:08.579 --> 02:00:09.539
Hmm.

2839
02:00:10.739 --> 02:00:12.359
Wow.

2840
02:00:13.140 --> 02:00:15.060
Standing to talk about.

2841
02:00:15.119 --> 02:00:18.000
We'll get to talk about our very different reactions to serious

2842
02:00:18.000 --> 02:00:18.539
ones.

2843
02:00:19.439 --> 02:00:22.800
Yeah, because the only one we've done, the only one that we've

2844
02:00:22.800 --> 02:00:25.500
done is the really good one that everyone likes.

2845
02:00:25.619 --> 02:00:26.520
Marvellous.

2846
02:00:26.579 --> 02:00:27.060
Yeah.

2847
02:00:27.119 --> 02:00:29.520
Yeah, timely to make.

2848
02:00:29.819 --> 02:00:33.180
Strange mango, mango, man.

2849
02:00:33.239 --> 02:00:33.420
Yeah.

2850
02:00:34.020 --> 02:00:35.640
That one.

2851
02:00:37.979 --> 02:00:40.380
Okay, all right, let's do that.

2852
02:00:40.439 --> 02:00:46.140
And we've got 2 stametses and we've got Birkham, Burnham and Lorca

2853
02:00:46.140 --> 02:00:46.439
awesome.

2854
02:00:46.500 --> 02:00:50.399
There's ash, pretty, pretty, pretty tall ash.

2855
02:00:51.060 --> 02:00:52.500
Yeah.

2856
02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:56.399
And it'll be, it'll be a really, I really want to talk about how

2857
02:00:56.399 --> 02:01:01.500
this is the point where Brian Fuller's ambitions for discovery

2858
02:01:01.500 --> 02:01:03.000
have been completely jetsisoned.

2859
02:01:03.060 --> 02:01:06.119
And they've just said more or less just go, cinema, alternative

2860
02:01:06.119 --> 02:01:07.380
universe and all fight each other.

2861
02:01:07.439 --> 02:01:08.579
You know, that'll be fun.

2862
02:01:08.640 --> 02:01:12.539
But don't you think, like, I think that there is, there's a thing

2863
02:01:12.539 --> 02:01:18.960
there because we see the Federation, abandon its principles, and

2864
02:01:18.960 --> 02:01:24.359
start to fight the war in, in a very kind of real politic kind of

2865
02:01:24.359 --> 02:01:24.659
way.

2866
02:01:24.720 --> 02:01:26.939
DS noise or way.

2867
02:01:27.000 --> 02:01:30.960
And then we get catapulted to a version of the universe where that

2868
02:01:30.960 --> 02:01:34.560
has just completely happened and the Federation is just an openly

2869
02:01:34.560 --> 02:01:40.020
white supremacist, you know, racialized thing.

2870
02:01:40.079 --> 02:01:43.260
And then they go back and then they go back and make the right

2871
02:01:43.260 --> 02:01:44.039
decision.

2872
02:01:44.100 --> 02:01:48.899
And because I think that, I think that, um, Discovery Series one

2873
02:01:48.899 --> 02:01:56.640
is about America's reaction to 9-11 initially, and, and, you know

2874
02:01:56.640 --> 02:01:59.939
the anxiety of the fact that America's been at war for like 20

2875
02:01:59.939 --> 02:02:03.779
years conducting wars in the Middle East and stuff like that, um

2876
02:02:03.779 --> 02:02:11.699
despite having this, you know, liberal kind of, you know

2877
02:02:11.699 --> 02:02:13.079
philosophy.

2878
02:02:13.199 --> 02:02:18.239
And then, and then, then we're in Trump World, and, you know, we're

2879
02:02:18.239 --> 02:02:21.960
just got Locke saying, make the galaxy great again, and, and we've

2880
02:02:21.960 --> 02:02:24.119
got, I've got to watch this episode with that in mind.

2881
02:02:24.180 --> 02:02:28.199
So this is where Donald Trump going to take us to the trumpet.

2882
02:02:28.260 --> 02:02:28.680
Yeah.

2883
02:02:28.739 --> 02:02:31.920
And because we know that they think about that because that's

2884
02:02:31.920 --> 02:02:35.340
basically where Picard series 2 goes, isn't it?

2885
02:02:35.399 --> 02:02:37.920
Like the world's about to tip into fascism.

2886
02:02:37.979 --> 02:02:40.680
I mean, it's where the 1st episode of Strangely Worlds goes.

2887
02:02:40.739 --> 02:02:44.220
It's a thing that they're interested in. so I think that's what's

2888
02:02:44.220 --> 02:02:44.460
happening.

2889
02:02:44.699 --> 02:02:50.220
But I think if that, I mean, typically smart reading from you.

2890
02:02:50.279 --> 02:02:53.880
But I think that all occurred somewhat accidentally.

2891
02:02:53.880 --> 02:02:59.760
Because I know I know the series started with a very different

2892
02:02:59.760 --> 02:03:04.739
direction to where it ended and they were scrabbling about a bit

2893
02:03:04.739 --> 02:03:07.380
in that 2nd half of that season and they pulled it together

2894
02:03:07.380 --> 02:03:08.399
clearly, but...

2895
02:03:08.399 --> 02:03:11.039
Yeah, but I think it'd be quite interesting to talk about that

2896
02:03:11.039 --> 02:03:13.260
because I'm going to research Brian Fuller and see what happened

2897
02:03:13.260 --> 02:03:15.659
and have a little bit about that. interesting isn't it?