Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this is a particularly exciting episode for us because this is
perhaps one of the most iconic episodes of the original series.
Well, didn't you say this has been alluded to in a lot of other
pop culture?
Was it in an episode of Futurama?
Yeah, well, the big music queue, which we're obviously going to go
on and on about over the next hour a bit, is used in a Futurama
episode to underscore a sort of fight to the death that happens.
Fry must be involved.
I can't remember the details.
And of course, Strange New Worlds actually takes a lot of kind of
Spock's background and backstory and stuff from this episode.
And to Pring, who we talked about a few weeks ago when we did an
episode of Strangely Worlds, you know, had a beautiful role in
that, this is us seeing her for the very 1st time.
I've got to be honest.
I obviously haven't watched all of Strange New Wells, and I
certainly haven't watched all of the original series, but having
seen that relationship portrayed in the Serene Squaw a couple of
weeks back and then watching a mock time and doing it in that
order, but the latest one and then the history of it, it all kind
of fitted together perfectly.
I was like, wow, this is Kurtzmanchek is genuinely adding layers
to what we've already seen.
And that's really like, I never would have foreseen that happening
doing this.
Yeah, yeah, they all sort of coming together like a little jigsaw
puzzle.
It's really neat.
I mean, even the character of Christine Chappell as well, who gets
foregrounded in this episode, is largely a reaction in Strangely
Worlds against Majel Barrett's portrayal of her here, where she's
a little bit kind of pathetic.
It seems terrible to say that about a character play.
I can't really like...
Who characters do not seem like the same character to me.
What happened to that, you know, exciting brave young woman in
strangely wells to turn her into this meek sort of puppy lusting
after Spock?
I just think we have to take it as that was the sort of portrayal
of a major female character that was acceptable on television in
the 1960s and we're not going to do that here now in 2022.
No, I'll tell you what, it'd be through that super now. should be
straight in those karate shopping and all sorts, you know?
That's right.
Getting a hypospray and just dropping him to the ground.
But with a mock time.
This was originally supposed to be in the 1st season of Star Trek
and the studio execs, they wanted this one rushed into production
because they became aware really early that Leonard Nimoy Spock
was the most popular character on the show.
So they wanted it out.
And the writer whose name eludes me right now was notorious for
delayed scriptwriting.
And I can I tell you what, because actually this feels a lot of
Star Trek episodes feel like they've been knocked out, you know
like someone's been there in a day.
Like, right, okay, that will do.
This actually feels quite crafted.
I feel like there was a bit of thought put into this and he did
have a bit of extra time.
But yeah, so this got the 1st part of the 2nd season and I think
it's an absolute mission statement that Spock got both the
beginning of season 2 and unfortunately the beginning of season 3
of which the 2 episodes are slightly kind of diverse in quality, I
would say.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and in fact, Spock is kind of backgrounded in Spock's brain
which we've obviously done.
But here he gets to do things he's never done before.
And it's really great.
I mean, he's so good in her.
And not just when he's being angry, but all the time.
Lots of people. really had a chance to really spotlight Nemo
because Spock's brain doesn't, does it?
He's just basically a walking automaton or a disembodied hate.
Stupid, you know, threat. going captain, you know, come to the
brain or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Terrible.
Whereas here he got, yeah, you're right.
You got a chance to emote in lots of different ways.
And, Nathan, this could have been really terrible.
Like some of the things he's asked to do.
You know, my heart is on fire. and all this stuff.
It could have been.
If Shatner was doing this, it would have been a very different
episode.
But Neeboy sort of contains it all, doesn't he?
And and I just, I really bought into what he was going through
because it's, what, is this puberty?
So it's kind of funny, isn't it?
Because this is, I think there's more to it than puberty and I
think there is something about sexuality that I think is really
interesting in, you know, like locating this particular ritual and
this kind of drive to Vulcans.
I think is interesting and does say something about how we think
of sex and sexuality, I think.
But I was portrayed like as a metaphor for puberty, because it's
like all those all those violent emotions coming out.
Sure, suddenly you're massively horny, you know, like.
Yeah, yeah, but I think it's more I think it's more than puberty.
I do think it is just human sexuality is like that.
And I think we'll get onto that.
But it is also something that we've come back to.
So we have blood fever, don't we, in Voyager.
Very divisive episode.
But actually, it's doing something quite interesting because it's
B'lana that goes through.
Catches it off.
She catches it off.
Is that his name for it?
fucking Tom Paris and obviously we head down that rabbit hole for
the rest of the series.
Yeah.
So, so that, and I think the eologium is the same thing where Kess
has a drive that's part of her developmental thing and we talked
about that the other day, but I'm also thinking of the awful where
Borders has, he has to head back to his home planet to do a
massive Wii once a year. and like he's got this sort of drive to
do that. and there's no way that that's not the pond far.
They're more honest on the audience.
Do you remember Portis?
Waiting out that massive like addiction to gay porn.
And he kept going in.
I feel like sexuality in the orball.
It's just a very, it's very realistic, whereas in Star Trek, it, it
does have to be couched in metaphor a little bit, doesn't it?
Yeah, well, so actually in these a little bit.
Yeah, they're a little bit more relaxed about it now.
But certainly... a fair few sex episodes lately, you know.
You're amazing.
Yeah, I don't know.
The randomiser must have some...
Horny...
That's right.
Snering at 7th year.
Do you remember in Voyager, when they, uh, the doctor sang the
song about Chewbox, Pompha, in Tinker Tinner, Doctor Spy.
I just do a little bit of it because it's so funny.
Goes, so what is it?
Tuvok, I understand.
You are a Vulcan man.
You have just gone without 47 years about.
It's so funny.
It's so great.
Oh, listen.
Does he, does he undergo the ponfart in Voyager as well?
No, no, it happens in a comedy sequence, like in a dream
sequence.
Okay.
Oh my god.
What is it?
It goes.
Paris, please find a way to find a hyperspray.
I will give you the sign.
Just aim for his behind.
It's so funny.
It's brilliant.
It's not. the doctor.
Oh, of course.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it is big, isn't it?
Like this introduces a whole heap of stuff.
It affects a lot of what's coming later.
Yes, it does, yeah.
This is a massively popular episode with the production team at
the time.
I think Gene Roddenbury said it was his in his top 10 favourites
of the ones that were made whilst he was alive.
The showrunner of series one of Picard, whose name alludes me, is
quoted as saying that his father, considered it one of the 2 best
Star Trek episodes of all time, and it was a very important place
basically, it's just widely acknowledged as a bit of a classic.
And I can see why because I watched this and I was excitedly
texting you the whole time saying, this is fucking brilliant.
It's really good.
Alright.
What do you think?
Should we watch it?
Oh I can't wait.
I just love doing the original series, you know. so good.
All right, here goes.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Like the 1st 20 minutes, yeah, of like, you know, spot going
through this sort of mystery emotions and them zinging back and
forth between where they're supposed to be going and Vulcan.
I mean, I thought this went on a little bit too long.
We could have got to the planet a little quicker, but I love the
jokes about them slingshotting back and forth all the time.
This is the bit of the episode that I really like, and actually
when it gets really camp and cheesy and we go down to the planet
we're hitting each other with big sticks.
Well, I think that's super enjoyable, but I think there's more
solid acting in this 1st bit.
I thought Dr. McCoy was so horrible to her in this scene.
Yeah, I'm having a few issues with Dr. McCoy when we were watching
this because he's he's like, oh, you still lusting after Spock?
I know, it's so terrible.
So play meat soup.
You've never gave up hope to you.
That's what he says.
Yeah, that's miserable, isn't it?
Fucking be professional, McCoy, just because she's a woman.
Yeah, I can't fries anyone looks at him.
That's right.
No, I do love De Forrest Kelly and he can't help the lines he's
given, you see?
And he's good in this.
He's really good in this, I think.
I think the last thing we expected to do, though, was for Kirk and
McCoy, through about to be smacked in the head with a bowl of soup
coming projectile out of the out of the quarters in a second.
It was great.
I was like, oh what's going on?
My interest was immediately peaked.
What the hell is that going?
Out the door.
It's purple.
Yeah, well, it's very famous.
It's exactly what a horny Vulcan Well, in this case doesn't really
feel like eating, I think.
So he's getting calculated how many light days it's going to take
for them to divert off their course so he can pop off to Vulcan.
I love, you know what?
Don't you laugh the intensity of the performances in the original
truck?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, we talked about that.
You know, that thing where original trek is like heightened and
melodramatic and that Strangely Worlds is what if original trek
but everyone was a little bit more chill.
A bit more relaxed.
Yeah.
And I think that works really well.
But the, the kind of preposterous overplaying of it that you get.
And I think Shatner does a fantastic job of that.
He's super watchable in this.
I think he's really good.
Like, I think, magnificent, you said before, he can be, like, very
relaxed as well around this team.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think I think he chooses his moments to be extremely intense.
So I want to mention that I am watching the original version of
this with no updated special effects.
But when I was when I was preparing, I did watch the new special
effects.
So we're probably coming on then, we've, I think we've made our
position clear, haven't we?
We like them.
We do.
And I feel like there is an inclusion of a special effect in this
episode that really seriously adds to the episode.
But we'll talk about that when we get there.
We're not there yet.
No, you were talking about the spaceship opticals, you know, the
exteriors of the spaceship.
And they do look substantially better, even though they're not
super flashy in the updated version, they're a lot better than
what we got originally because of just what they were capable of
doing.
I think my point was, like, when a brand new special effect comes
in that adds to like the visual splendour of the episode, that
makes a like a genuine difference.
Whereas kind of the model work is ropey, and obviously it's ropey
1960, whatever, but it does at least explain the plot, you know, it
gets just...
At the time, it must have been pretty extraordinary.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah.
So here's Spock, in the very unfortunate position of having to try
and explain.
He can't quite do it, can he?
He's going through.
Well, but I think there are really, really properly good reasons
for it that he gives, and he's absolutely unable to look at that.
Look at the knife.
Look at the knife in his hand, right?
And he's shaking.
Like, uh, Nemoy's shaking.
From the front.
It's completely you can't tell.
He's just acting normally, but a bit more tense.
The curt goes behind him and notice it, doesn't it?
He notices it. doesn't say anything. and then just accepts his
request.
It's really good.
Yeah, it's this shot here.
He's just moving forward to fiddle with his terrible computer
there.
And he looks over...
And just as he's saying...
Because there's no acknowledgement at all.
This would not happen in 90s trait, would it?
like, you know, give me the knife to be explained.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So did I trust the audience back in the 60s?
Look.
That's the other thing here.
The other thing here, too, is that they're friends.
And that's that's something that this show celebrates, I think, is
friendships between men.
And, you know, that's, you know, there's plenty of friendships
between men and other TV shows and stuff.
But these people are just sort of colleagues.
This is a workplace sitcom, isn't it?
Star Trek?
Well, a workplace something.
In that scene there, Kirk knew that if he hadn't acquiesced, there
was a good chance that that knife would have been plunged into his
mouth.
And he still books out the quarters and smiles at him.
Well, he'd already made the decision, but he'd already made the
decision and then he saw the knife and realised how serious it was
but he had already said, let's set a course to Vulcan.
So it didn't make him change his mind at all.
There's a good chance that Michelle Nichols would not have been in
this series, wasn't it?
By the end of the 1st series.
She was like, I had enough of this.
And she was talking about going because it wasn't a very
challenging role and was taught into staying by. by Dr. King, by
Martin Luther King. yeah incredible.
Which pretty incredible, isn't it?
And, and, you know, this is the 1st, this is the 1st new trek that
we've done since Nichelle died, I think.
It is classic trek, rather.
Yeah.
You know, I think I, she's absolutely beautiful.
And obviously she's just some incredible work outside of Star
Trek.
I really wish they'd utilised her character better.
Yeah.
Like, I feel like she gets some really fun stuff to do in the
movies.
And I know that sequence when she's on the rich, half naked
singing the song to the part... love that so much.
And like everybody else, she gets great things to do it in Star
Trek 4.
Everyone does.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But like, she wasn't really, she wasn't really utilised very well
was she?
No, no.
And both later versions of the character, like Zoe Zeldana and
Celia Gooding, have been linguists.
You know, they haven't just been the ship's receptionist.
They've been a sort of linguistics expert.
And even Hoshi, I guess, on Enterprise.
Well, it's interesting.
Skip forward to Enterprise, and the Hoshi character is as
neglected as Uhura is here.
Yeah, that's right.
Unless they're consistent.
For the same reason, I think.
They're just not very interested in women.
So Mr. Spock has changed course again.
So we've gone from Vulcan back to Altair 3 or 6 or whatever.
And now we're going back...
Vital mission, isn't it?
We never find out really what it is.
Well, it's installing the new government of the planet of Altair
and there are going to be 3 starships there to show the federation
support.
And they suggest that that might have some effect on relations
with the Klingons.
You know, it might be a show of strength.
Um, May I say?
that, uh, this turbo lift set.
Yeah.
I think the original series has done a wonderful job of
maintaining continuity with Strange New Worlds because this set
looks almost exactly the same.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Strangely wells came first.
So it did.
I love the things, the handles, like the handles are there and
it's just like, fuck it, we're having the handles in Strange
Worlds. they look awesome, you know.
We're not just going to walk into the lift and say computer bridge
or whatever.
Do you know, right?
Even though you'll probably say the sets of the ends pros on
particularly sophisticated, I find them so much more visually
interesting than pretty much any 90s trek show.
And as I was watching this, like earlier on in Spock's Quarters
and he had this sort of shrine behind him with like red velvet
drapes and this smoking altar, and I'm like, you just wouldn't
have a sit like that on the Enterprise in TNG, you know?
And think about that, right?
This is in the episode where we're going to Vulcan for the 1st
time.
And this is an episode about, you know, the Vulcans who are super
logical being overcome by sort of emotional urges or sexual urges
or something.
And in his quarters is a shrine, like a religious shrine, you know
like...
You don't see that again until Kira and DS 9.
She got a shrine that she prays to in her courses.
Yeah, and being religious is a hugely important part of her
character, but he with Spock, you know, he's logical.
So what's with the shrine?
And I think that that is kind of just raising the question that
the episode ends up addressing.
Well, wasn't there, there was a criticism of carer, I think, in
later that, you know, oh, no, Roddenberry was, you know, there's
no religion in the future and all this, and we can't be, you can't
be showing to be portraying that.
And they really came back at that criticism and said, no, no, he
never said that at all.
It's, but none of the human characters are religious, are they?
Or at least we don't learn that they are.
No.
In data's day.
There's a celebration of Diwali, you know, the Festival of Lines.
Ah yeah.
But it's only mentioned in dialogue.
We don't get to see it.
And I guess this is...
I don't want to bang on too much about this.
And this is the last thing I'll probably say about the production
design of the enterprise, but I just really love how this all
looks.
There's a lot of lighting from different directions, okay?
So there are shadows everywhere.
Watch how many it just makes it more interesting.
In 90s strict, it's that kind of flat...
Yeah, lighting, like a really strong key light, boring.
Yeah.
Whereas you're lighting the backgrounds around these people in a
way that makes the shot interesting and gives it depth.
And it's the 60s, which is stylish as fuck.
Like it's the most gorgeously stylish steak 8 ever, I think.
Do you remember that?
That sort of silhouetted lighting in the doomsday machine to show
how kind of damaged Decker was.
You know, I just I just feel like this was being made quick, you
know.
It didn't have to look that good.
And it was, you know, being shown.
Was it syndicated at the time?
I can't remember.
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, it becomes syndicated, doesn't it?
don't know.
I think I think it was just for an original run.
And then and then when it was indicated, that's when it really
found its audience.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anyway, that's enough of me in production hour.
No, but I think that's it.
And, you know, Star Trek ever since has had, has nodded had these
nods to the 60s.
In that 1st episode of Strange Shoe Worlds, where we see the Mess
Hall or whatever, and it's made, it's all just full of beautiful
60s style plastic, modernist plastic furniture. you just think, yes
yes, you know, it is the 60s, I think.
Do you know, I was very confused at Spock looking at that young
picture of Dupring. what is going on here?
And it's so funny because there's been trivia here.
Wow, that's what I thought, but I think it's supposed to be spring
isn't it?
It is, yeah.
The ear on her is absolutely massive, and that is because it was
one of the adults ears that they borrowed and slapped on this
little girl.
Let her.
You've been called the, ah, the best 1st officer in the flea.
That was McCoy, I think, in a previous episode.
Right, right.
But this, look, and so he's, he's made the decision that he will
just die, that he can't, see, there's that weird shrine in the
background.
That's where he's looking as he's talking about this.
He's looking into this thing that represents his cultural
traditions as he's talking about it.
Is he not supposed to talk about it because Vulcans aren't
supposed to talk about it to people outside of their race?
No, not even to each other.
They don't actually talk about it.
So it's like sex was or used to be kind of before the 60s, I
guess.
You know, like the idea that we don't, and even now, there are
things that we don't talk to talk about to people, you know, all
the time that sex is is for us, as it is for the Vulcans, right?
That it has to be, it's such a strong urge, it's such an important
thing that all of these rituals and strange cultural things have
grown up around it.
And there are all these taboos about what can and can't be said
about it.
And that's what is causing him, like he just can't talk about it
even here.
And it's kind of funny, he says it has to do with biology.
And Shatner goes, oh, biology, by biology, you mean fucking
right?
And, you know, biology, right?
So even he can't say sex, like he doesn't even talk about sex or
sexuality at all.
And reproduction is what they land on.
Yeah, yeah, they land on reproduction.
And so and so for us, we're like this too.
So that's why I don't think this is just puberty.
I think this is sexuality.
And if you think about sexuality, you know, like sometimes it's
like people ruin their lives because they can't resist having sex
with the wrong people, you know, like people destroy their
marriages or lose their jobs or whatever.
Well, I feel like if you're brought up in a household where that
is a taboo and then you're obviously mature and somebody does have
it and it can absolutely fuck your life.
Yeah, yeah.
So, but it's not just that.
I mean, sex is a thing where it's like, yeah, sure, we'll do it
but I'll probably lose my job.
But then at other times you just don't want to do it because
you're in the middle of an interesting chapter or you want to play
Tetris or something.
You know, like it is...
You know my life well, honestly.
You know, sex is a weird thing.
And so Vulcan culture has created all of these.
I know people like that.
I know people like Spock that just cannot verbalise. the urges
that they have or explore it or understand it.
It's just something that they do and they're a bit embarrassed and
humiliated by it.
And it's quite sad, you know?
I mean, look at his description.
Look at how he's describing it.
He's saying that we have...
The area of civilisation.
These are the Vulcans, you know, who are more civilised than human
beings.
And so this is Kirk being the 1st human being to learn of the
ponfire, right?
You know, um, no one's ever talked to anyone outside Vulcan about
it.
I want to point out, you know, Sterling...
Can I just say the eel birds of Regulus 5 that also have this
urge?
The eel birds of regular spy.
You were saying that, haven't we?
When you were like, when they give all these like alien exotic, and
then they just put in one human reference as well.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Here, the pattern's not quite there because normally it's three.
Two of which are real and one of which is a space one, but here
you're not a fish, Mr. Spock.
I would like to highlight such sterling episodes of Star Trek as
The Naked Now and fascinations from DS9.
And that one where to poll is going around Enterprise, literally
trying to fuck everybody and it's like a horror movie.
Just to show that when sexuality is let on off the leash in Star
Trek, it can be really, really terrible.
Like, and then, whereas this shows you how it can be done, how it
can be done as a thoughtful piece as a mature piece.
Okay, yeah, I know you're not going to say that towards the end of
the episode when they're fighting.
Yeah, because, yeah, yeah.
But as a character drama rather than, you know, oh, we're all just
fucking, isn't that funny?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, like there's a sort of sophomoric and basically kind of, oh
we can do sex now and look at us and it's just super
embarrassing.
I don't think the original series shies away from sex.
It doesn't.
There's all romance at least.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But this, I think, being very definitely a metaphor for just the
human sex drive and saying, all right, well, Vulcans are much more
logical than us.
They're much more civilised than us, but those things, those
taboos and stuff are there to restrain something that's much, much
more, um, animal and, you know, and that's, that's Canada now
isn't it like Vulcans?
It's not that they don't have emotions.
Oh, he broke his...
They deliberately repressed them.
Yeah, because he spends half his life meditating over a candle
just to try and keep his, you know, how much he wants to throttle
Neelix in check.
Yeah, yeah.
I think he loves...
What are these bizarre skulls all over the wall in this office?
Yeah, yeah.
We thought that we thought that Jason Isaac, what was he, Captain
Walker was a weirdo for having a gone skeleton in his...
The best one ever.
Remember that episode of Picard in the alternative universe, where
then Scott, Gold Ducat Skull, and Martock, and Sarak, and
everybody.
That was amazing.
Yeah, that's weird, isn't it?
I think there's one skull. 1st examples of, you know, the
bureaucratic Starfleet Admiral.
Yeah.
Nona Chea.
I got to say.
No, he's a very colourless white guy, I'm afraid.
You know what?
One day I might press that randomiser until I get an episode
starring Admiral Nachayev, you know.
We'll be there a long time, but it'll be worth it.
So this is good too, isn't it?
I really like this and I had forgotten how it resolved itself, and
this is clearly something that they will do later, isn't it, in
Star Trek 3, where we are going to disobey an admiral.
We're going to disobey staff orders for the sake of Spock.
Yeah, because he's he's my friend.
We haven't even mentioned Chekhov.
So this is Chekhov's 1st episode, right?
Let me say, he's not given much to do, but what he is given to
do.
We keep cutting back to check off on Zulu, and they're at the con
having to take the enterprise back and forth to me, whilst Kirk
keeps changing his mind, I'll tell you what, they're not getting
much about it.
I was quite very, laughing my head off.
And then he's like, well, put in the coordinates to go back just
in case.
He changes his mind again.
Yeah, yeah.
So what's happening in this scene?
So Nurse Chapel goes up to him.
No, it looks like they've post-corded.
Doing to the touch him.
And then easy, like I can't work out quite what ends up happening
here.
And, you know, again, she's got a single tear on her cheek.
I know.
And the violins are playing.
She's got that misty sort of camera work going on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They would not debase women quite women this much these days, would
they?
No.
Are you sure this isn't puberty?
He's been there like drumming his electric guitar.
I know it was a half.
He's been moody in his bedroom.
Well, I mean, if puberty, like I think it's about sex and
sexuality, right?
And but, you know, that's what puberty's about as well.
You know, it's not about kids sort of finally kind of working that
out or just discovering it, I guess.
So what's the request here?
I don't know, I can't remember what this interaction is.
Gosh, she's beautiful, isn't she?
She is, and I really liked the performance, isn't it?
They are very, very delicate.
I mean Nathan, come on.
This is a show set in space where they're all wearing pyjamas.
They do not need to be put in this much effort into these
performances.
No, exactly right.
And look, so this is him apologising for being a prick earlier, for
losing his temper with her.
And admittedly, it is he allows her to cook him something
which...
It's a 1960s, all right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it is him...
Where's my dinner?
You know.
Joe, I wonder where that fabulous altar went, you know, because it
had a ball and it had sort of mood lights on it.
I'd love that by my bed, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. looks good.
Now, look, so this the lift's going sideways.
So he sells explaining now about an insanity that they might find
distasteful.
It's described as madness.
He just described it as madness.
No, Kirk actually described his own madness there.
It's kind of like you put up with my madness and it's another one
of those just lovely chatting the lines that are given with a half
smile.
So you're absolutely right.
I mean, this is this show is basically a massive bromance, isn't
it, amongst these three?
Yeah.
And I think no matter how good some male, male relationships are
later on, and there are some good ones later on.
I don't think they're quite top.
This trio.
Well, this threesome. throuple here.
And I actually, I, obviously McCoy is down on the planet and I've
seen that before, but I did actually find myself just a little bit
touched by, you know, because they have this, um, adversarial
relationship because they are very often, uh, you know, the 2
opposing sides who Kirk has to decide between, but he's every bit
as much.
It's well for example.
And he has scope for conflict and for the bromance.
Do you know what?
screen and I know you want to talk about it.
But you know what I think is the best example of this free and how
much they love each other, man.
You're going to think I'm mad.
Spock's brain?
No.
Row, row, row, your boat.
Yes, I actually really like that as well.
I love that.
No, and the camera pans out on the campfire.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah.
It's terrible.
But yes.
Looking, doing that dialogue, the never touching and always
touched.
You know, I await you, all of that dialogue, that's how they talk
to one another in Strange New Worlds.
They use that dialogue.
How did they break up?
It was like, the bond is broken.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they talk like they address one another in these formal ways.
And of course, that's the thing.
The reason for that, which is just cheesy and ridiculous, is the
fact that anything about Vulcan sexuality has to be surrounded by
so much ritual and so much formality because they can't handle it
I guess.
This is I'm now watching the new special effect where they are
walking across.
It's a long shot.
They're walking across a massive bridge to the arena where they're
going to fight with a cityscape in the background.
I mean, it looks like a ton of money has been poured into this
shop.
But it gives the whole planet and this setting a huge sense of
scale.
What are you seeing?
Yeah, basically a slow pain across the sand.
So, look, I mean, I think this is a pretty good set, and I do
think, like, it has a very, again, you know, you can tell it's
made in the 60s.
Look at that thing on the wall, the green thing. don't think we
can hold that against them though, you know?
No, I love that.
Being made in the 60s is a great thing.
It's just awesome.
Um, I just like, I like, I like, it's like Doctor Who in the 60s.
I like the ambition even if they can't always realise it.
I think too, there's something just wonderful and breathtakingly
cheesy about this.
Like the space outfits, everyone's swearing, and you know, like
all of these details that will come up again, all of the things
taken from this.
So, you know, the those frames that are sort of hexagonal with the
bells in them, like they come up again.
Don't you think that's wonderful?
All this stuff, these designs and these rituals that they're just
making up on the fly in the 60s, yeah, yeah.
I got to have such meaning in the future.
There's going to be, you know, 1000s and 1000s of Star Trek fans
you know, buying into this stuff.
And like, you know, when they cosplayer conventions and things
like that.
I swear they do these rituals and things, you know?
No, it's it's just terrific.
I'm, yeah, yeah.
You're there for it, yeah.
I really am.
I think it's a great thing.
This is the episode that sets up the Vulcans more than anything
else.
I do think, though, this is now on Vulcan, this is now where it
feels like a 90s trek episode, where it's sort of like pompous
ceremony, taken very seriously, you know?
Well, like it's sort of space things being taken very seriously
but then it's just like sort of beating the shit out of each other
at the end of it, which is...
No, okay, I need to talk about the conflict inherent in that whole
situation with McCoy watching and Kirk and Spock fighting.
I think it's really well fall through.
Yeah, 1st of all, I need to talk about the designs of these
fabulous broken guards.
I look like birds.
Oh, so wonderful.
It's so strange They do look like that.
What's the actress' name?
So she is someone, I can't remember her name and she, uh, is, I
want to say Austrian, um, she is, she's doing her own accent.
She's marvellous.
This episode, like this is as cheesy as fuck.
Look at the stupid hats that they're all wearing and stuff.
It's so ridiculous.
But I think it absolutely sells it. can absolutely be tongue in
cheek, you know, that would ruin.
And even when they're doing alien cultures and things like that
there can be a lot of humour.
This is just taken deadly seriously.
I remember saying to you, it reminds me of a similar performance
in the 70s Doctor Who story from Cynthia Grenville, where, look at
that guy's tits.
The whole situation is utterly absurd.
And she's treating it with such gravity that you just believe
absolutely, absolutely.
For real.
She's really good.
And she's obviously, oh, look, there, she does the thing, the
Vulcan hand thing.
Not everyone can do that.
No, no, well, shoot.
No, I'm actually not sure that's her because I was reading on
memory alpha that she couldn't do it.
So they actually pull someone else in.
And it's someone else's hand.
She's, I mean, I think she's really, really great.
Now, his Stone standing next to to Pring here.
And Stone was in the episode of Stranger Worlds that we did in the
Serene Squall for the 1st time.
He's still got the same terrible bowl haircut in Strange New
Worlds.
But he was just saw there in the background. wasn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's a nice of these now.
If you know, if you've seen this, you know, it's so nice. know
that they're fucking we know that Christine and and Spock are not
having sex, but I reckon to bring in Stoner already on.
Oh, for sure.
When she details, at the end of this, what her plan is why she was
having a problem. maybe even in Strange New Worlds, maybe even
Pegley.
Yeah.
Well, it's a very sexy show that they're all at in that one, you
know?
they really are.
So to Pau as well, she doesn't appear again, except a young Tappau
is in enterprise.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, the character comes back in enterprise.
She was really boring in that.
I bet she was very dull.
Almost certainly.
And then there is a scene with like a Vulcan priestess like that
called Talar, I think maybe in Star Trek three.
I'm not sure.
But they, again, they go back to this because this performance is
so important and they sort of try and recreate it.
She has such intense authority to power.
Yeah, she's magnificent.
I would not say no to her.
They said to me, Joe, you've got to fight Nathan.
I'd be like, right.
Yeah, you can do it.
Now we're getting all of these unmotivated shots of this guy.
And we don't know that he's Stone.
We don't know who he is at all.
And he's got the most ridiculous falconers.
Like they're really, really bad, like much worse than Nemoy's
ones.
Which, um, we'll get to a bit later.
The goal.
Yeah.
Those sort of weird paper clips that they're wearing.
What is that one?
Look at this guy.
Look at his... got this beautiful kind of...
He's looking great.
Oh, you're looking at his face. looking at the thing around his
mouth.
Oh, the bird beak fear.
No, I can't stop looking at his tits.
Look at them.
He looks amazing.
Hey, should get your priority straight.
Yeah, that's right.
And that, look, Shatner turns around as if to go, why is this
asshole getting all these close-ups?
Like, what's he?
What his dad?
You know Shatner, all right.
He was probably there, saying, to the director, what is going on
here, you know?
So we just heard to power refer to the blood fever, which is the
palm father thing. from Carter Nemoy.
And he left, yeah.
He is literally going to tear someone in half.
And of course, that's why they call the episode blood fever in
Voyager.
They take the that's just a quote from the dialogue. this
episode.
No, as effective as this, though.
Oh, no.
Yeah, well, boy.
I mean, it is it is Roxanne Dawson.
Anyway, she's pretty good.
Unfortunately, Tom Paris is in there going, come on, Balana.
Fuck me.
Yuck.
He's taking one for the team Suprina's planned all of this in
advance.
She's got a whole plan in advance.
If he wins or if he loses, she's getting his property and she's
fucking stoned, all right?
So that's why she went up to the thing that it was going to bang.
And she's like, no, we're going to have a challenge.
But why does she choose Kirk?
I can't remember.
As an excuse.
She has explained it.
Can Spock have a fight to the death?
I think so.
I think we needed Kirk and Spock to have the fight to the death
thing.
Kirk's like, you know what?
I fight him.
Don't worry. like, you know, a bit of swagger.
And then it's like, no, it's to the death.
Oh shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
They'll go, wait, death.
Who mentioned that?
When was it death?
That was in the brochure.
I know, I know this is all a bit camp and crazy. now.
But I love the fact that you've obviously you've got Spock who's
in conflict with himself.
It's basically the 2 sides for him that are fighting.
You got Kirk who's in conflict because he's fighting his best
friend.
And then you've got McCoy who's in conflict because he's a doctor
and he's watching his 2 best friends slug at each other.
And there's just lots happening whilst the fight is going on
there's lots happening.
And I was just like this is so interesting.
If this was next generation.
You know, remember that Abu jitsu scene between Piker and his dad
you know, like, it was a freadful metaphor.
Like, kids fighting their parents.
Well, yeah, I mean, I, I, you know, what about fencing with Picard
and Guyan?
I actually think that that's actually not a bad scene, but it's
not to the death.
Obviously, it's not as good as the racquetball competition between
O'Brien and Bashir, when they hate each other's guts so much
they're both trying to win.
Brian gets this move to that as well.
It's really terrible episodes.
Oh, my God.
I actually think, like, but to Pring's wearing this, again
something that's so fabulously 60s and they've, they've made her
more interesting.
They've given her a job, for instance, in Strange Shoe Worlds.
She actually has something to do rather than standing around
looking pretty.
They also landed on.
Obviously a lot of the dialogue is couched in metaphor, but
they've also landed on this sort of cod Shakespearean, you know, V
is able to do this.
Yeah, but I think, like the, basically the only person who says
that is to Pau, and she doesn't use the correctly.
Like, that's not how Shakespeare uses it.
I think that's the idea, though.
It's that sort of weird.
It's strange.
It's strange, but she absolutely manages to sell it, I think.
I think that's pretty incredible because it is like it's cheesy
weird space dialogue and the people riding it must have known that
you know, there's no version of English where that's grammatical
but can I ask you?
Like, obviously, you know, a lot of Vulcans go. a lot of Vulcans
out there.
So they're all going through this at some point. she just carried
from one place to another?
Doing one?
Is this her job?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
She just goes from ponfard upon far.
She's like a celebrant.
How many people?
Yeah, how many people were killed and how many people are fucking
today?
Right.
We had a good day.
Good.
Yeah.
I don't think that everyone has to have a fight to the death
before they're allowed to fuck though.
I think that this is a particular thing.
The population would be wiped out, then, wouldn't they?
Yeah, that's right.
Actually, maybe we should introduce that, you know, there's a lot
of people on this planet.
That's true.
Might be a lot of effort though, wouldn't it, honestly?
I like popping on Grinder.
No.
So she, so Nemoy and her had worked before.
Nemoy was really pleased that she was back.
Um, you know, and that, like, this is just superb, the 2 of them
together, and then some arsehole dress as a cockroach comes on
starts tying a thing around.
He's stretching.
Yeah, um, purple scarf around his waist now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At least I don't fight for the death without a bit of fashion.
No.
I love too, the way that, like the 1st injury.
It's so hilarious.
You know, we did the one.
What was the episode where he's just wandering through the fucking
ship with his shirt off?
Like...
Oh, the court might maneuver. yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And here, obviously, his shirt gets torn.
And again, we get to see his tits, but they're nowhere near as
ripped as that Vulcan champion.
No, obviously not.
They've got a bit of dry ice.
He's getting on in the background as well there.
I do like, Oh look, I love these weird Batman angles.
They did, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The sort of strange Dutch angles.
It's kind of like it's very 60s.
Well, no, but I think it's kind of displaying the madness that
he's going through.
And then you've got that explosion.
So it's like, you know, these violent volcanic emotions going on.
It's disorienting, isn't it?
And I think maybe we have to sell that that stupid glass thing, you
know, that's clearly meant to be a bit of lava on a 1960s TV
budget.
Would you indulge me in a quote from Leonard Nemoy?
Because he's a very thoughtful actor, and as you can imagine
adored getting this script that gave all this photos.
And he said, I remember a mock time very well.
It was an excellent script, very poetic, very dramatic, intense
important, and I felt immediately for Spock and the Vulcans.
It was a very exciting episode to shoot and perform, so
beautifully written and had great casting.
And I don't think it's wrong on any of those counts.
No, it really is quite great.
But then he had different things to say about Spock's brain in
episode of the season three.
Well, naturally.
But I mean, this is terribly cheesy.
It's cheesy as hell, and I think it probably does go on for a
bit.
Well, the fight I thought the fight was quite well done, you
know.
Well, but we are still not up to the fucking fight yet, and we've
been here for how long?
Do you know what I mean?
Like we're all just sort of standing right.
Well, no, because we're supposed to be at home going, you know, no
curb.
No small.
You love each other.
But like in a minute, he literally stabs that thing down where
Kirk was.
He is going to kill him.
Yeah, it's only the fact that Kurt gets out of the way in time.
Shannon's reaction when he actually experiences how heavy that
is.
Like when the guy trolls it and lets go of it.
He just sort of looks way more... you recommend anyone else in
Star Trek that can do business like Shatner?
I don't think there is, you know.
It's such a great movie.
Remember the end of the doomsday machine.
Come on.
Yeah, miaow now.
Yeah, like when he's when he's not being a prick, Shatner's
incredible, I think.
It's so good Oh, so this is where that very, very famous music
which is overused actually.
I think I think they use it again and again and again in original
series after this.
In fact, it's a version of that music, that theme 1st comes in
when Spock describes the ponfire, when he's talking to Kirk about
it, the music actually does that theme, and now it sort of comes
out really strongly.
And there is another scene where this ceremony plays out in an
earlier episode of Strange New Worlds.
I think it's in Spock Amuck, possibly.
I bet you were well excited, anyone out here.
Yeah, well, I know I was there going, come on, come on, do the
music.
You have to do the music.
Surely you're going to do the music and then it comes in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's so good It's great.
It was like a guitar drumming in the 1st half of the episode.
Yeah.
It sounded a bit like the crossroads theme tuning, I'm honest.
I don't know what that is.
I thought it was really good.
No, it was odd and kind of a little bit off putting.
Like I thought the music was really, really strong.
Not just the theme, not just the final.
I can say that in every original series episode.
You say that as much for this series as you do, don't for 90s
trek.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now, look, I'm not going to complain about the fact that I can see
it's clearly a double for them in the long shots when they're
doing their most impressive stunts because that is exception.
I was actually kind of enjoying trying to work out.
Oh, my God.
That overhead shot is double.
That weird.
And look, handheld camera work.
Like they are trying to make this pretty dynamic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh.
That's pretty great.
Oh, Jesus.
Ow, that really hurt.
Kicks him.
Yeah, this.
Yeah, that.
That's him about to stab.
What does that mean?
Because the thing means it. means stop.
I guess so.
He should have just gone, gentlemen, please.
Maybe it means round two.
Maybe it means bring out the stupid belt things.
A massive slash across his chest.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he's showing his chest, which is the 2nd most impressive
exposed chest.
I love the fact...
It just happened to be whereas chest is, whereas...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, if it had been his stunning. like, don't show my stomach
right?
Just my chest.
Yeah, that's right.
I've been working on it Yeah, you know, in these Star Trek
original series, I very often say I would like some of the props
for my house, but that sort of that pit with the crystals in it.
It'd be lovely in my living room, that would.
Mostly.
This is great too, because this is how it gets out of it.
And I think this is really neatly done.
The way this ends.
The way things are resolved, where you've painted Kirk into a
corner.
So we have to have Kirk, some skirk has to die.
Like we spent 10 minutes fucking setting this scene up for the
fight to the death.
So we can't cheat our way out of it.
We have to do something.
We have to kind of let it happen.
And the, this is going to destroy my career thing, both of which
are resolved quite quickly, but not in a way that I think feels
like a cheat.
Like I thought both of them seemed clever.
I do think this seems a little brutal this far.
Like, they are really both going for it.
Yeah, I know, but fighting one another with fucking ribbons or
something.
They're riving around.
This is kind of hot, you know.
Honestly, this is pretty hot.
Ow.
It's not it.
He's not even trying to hit him.
Oh my god, look, he's gonna burn him on the coals.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right.
But Spock's got the advantage, doesn't it?
Because the air's too thin for human beings.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
So the fact that Kirk is kind of, you know, Matt best in him and
matching him is to his credit.
Well, I think that we eventually decide that Vulcans are
incredibly physically strong, but I don't know where that comes
from.
Yeah, clearly not, yeah.
Oh my god, he's just strangled him to death.
Yeah, yeah, that where he picks him up and he's just completely
floppy like a doll.
It's...
And then the striking. lands on the fact that he's so appalled
that he's killed Kirk, that he's no longer horny.
Is that right?
Yeah, well, do you know what I mean?
He just needed to fuck someone or kill them and he didn't really
mind which and now he's killed him.
I don't know if I like that match for you, you know.
Fuck or kill.
Well, that's it.
That's the whole thing.
Sex and violence.
He, uh, yeah, he's kind of lost it now.
Oh, I see, do you know what?
his enthusiasm.
I'm looking at the backdrop here and I don't know this has been
enhanced on this version.
It might, I think it's a little darker and the, the, kind of the
the distance is blurred a little bit.
No, that may well be original.
There is a kind of range of sort of darker mountains and stuff in
the background.
It's a pretty good set, you know?
And they put dry ice in front of it.
So it's kind of a bit obscured as well.
Do you remember those studio planetary sets in TNG series well?
Oh, awful.
Which was just a south stage with a, you know, green wall.
And this, he's 2nd in command.
Like this, any orders?
And he just, I'm going to have myself into a star base.
I love that where it was like, well, you're in charge now.
You've killed him.
It's like an old pirate ship, isn't it?
You know?
Kill the mirror in charge and take.
Let's say. parade in the middle, yeah.
We haven't we?
In series one?
I can't remember.
Yeah, can't remember.
But like at this point, imagine this on 1st transmission.
Yeah, you're a little kid watching Star Trek.
And Spock's been through all this.
And now he's killed Kirk.
You'd be the absolute, God, what's going to happen now?
But I mean, I don't think we think that he's Kilkirk watching it.
Oh, no, we're adults than we've seen the movie since, but as a
kid.
Surely not.
I sat there going, oh, no, what are they going to do without Kirk
now?
Yeah, and now it's like, well, this whole thing was to get out of
my childhood marriage to you and so I can, I see no logic in
preferring stawn over me.
No, particularly with that bad hair.
I think I think that's called, you know, an insult in spoken
society.
That's a bit smack talk.
But it is a fact note for that.
I have been watching the only way it's Essex recently and for
those people that don't understand this.
It's an English sort of reality TV show.
Thank you very much about some dreadfully rich people and their
vacuous love lives.
And it's full of women like to bring who are getting men to fight
you know, fight over them and their, you know, their aim is to
money, property, and Botox, you know?
When I was watching her detail, her plan, and it, I'm like, bloody
hell, it's like those tower women.
Honestly.
Well, that's it.
But it's super, it's super logical.
Like, she goes through and it covers all of the possible things
and they all end up with her being able to go off with Don and um
have lots of money and property and there's...
The only way is Pomphar.
That's what she's on. that's right.
I really like this.
His line about her where it's kind of like, I think you might just
find having is not as nice as wanting because she's awful.
She's terrible. how he's playing that there.
Sort of hurt and sad and downcast.
I can absolutely see Ethan Peck playing that in exactly the same
way.
Yeah, yeah.
It doesn't really, really, like, again, it looks a camera, it
looks emotionless, sort of downcast and a bit sexy, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think I think he's probably studied Nemoy quite a bit.
Oh yeah, for sure.
How could you not?
On that. peace and long life.
Leave Volk and Prosper, I'll do neither.
I think that's one of those roles, isn't it?
That in the wrong hands.
It could have been really embarrassing, but you've got a very
thoughtful actor there that's like, do you know what?
I've got these stupid comedy ears on, but I'm going to sell this.
I'm gonna do it seriously.
I'm gonna just do my job properly.
My God, it's that special effect shot again.
It is so good.
Ah, yeah, no, I'm just looking at the set.
Oh my word.
This bit now, where he sees Kirk.
Oh, I love this so much.
This is so good.
McCoy kind of leaves him hanging a little bit.
I think we've kind of allowed it all the time, but McCoy's a bit
of a douche in this one.
Yeah, that's right.
I can see like in this scene, just the lighting.
Can we talk lighting, you know, just the way the sets are lit.
Here he comes and the reaction.
And you know what?
His smile is more beautiful than not seeing it very often. you
know, look at that.
And then he reacts.
Yes, no, he does the Picard maneuver.
He pulled his tuniform down.
But everyone else's reaction, like I actually found, I actually
teared up a little bit watching, I mean, this is my 2nd time
watching this in as many days, but the 1st time I just thought
that was astonishingly beautiful.
And I had seen this before and I remembered, but, you know, I
didn't really remember that bit.
And, you know, the moment I'd seen that smile, I knew that I'd
seen him smile before, but I didn't know that that was where it
was here.
I think it's beautiful.
I think it's really lovely.
And it doesn't undermine the character.
Like everyone sort of smiles indulgently, but...
Go away wants to know with the Goss.
What happened with the cow?
The wedding.
Tell me.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I'm not sure if I buy the fact that he, you know, he killed Kirk
so that's it.
The whole thing over.
Except remember that there is that sort of madness, that sort of
visceral madness and that either it shows itself in sex or
violence, you know, like, I don't think that that's like that's
appalling that we link those 2 things together and stuff.
No, no, no, not that.
It's just the fact that, you know, suddenly we've hit the point
where Kirk's dead and he's all right now.
Yeah, yeah.
But yes, but at what cost?
You know what I mean?
He comes to his senses the moment he's killed his best friend.
Like, I think that's good.
Would it have been the same when we'd gone the other way and he
just had a very good orgasm.
Oh, well, I'm all right now.
No, no, no.
Like, I think that that works.
Like, I don't think it's a cheat at all.
And I really like the fact that, um, yes, he tried to explain it
away.
And Kirk likes that.
Like Kurt goes, yes.
And a pig's eye.
Yeah, no, McCoy has to be a dick about it.
As we've noted in the past, these, you know, joke endings can go
one of 2 ways.
That one actually works.
Yeah, I thought it worked too. doesn't end with them laughing, but
they also get the message from Starfleet Command, remember, that
to Powell said, thank you for coming to Vulcan.
You were very helpful.
This is a, you know, great moment or something.
And so he's forgiven because Celia Lovsky, she is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she's called...
Really, really great.
But I'll tell you what, right?
Yeah, I know you said like the 2nd half of that episode, it's all
kind of camp ritual and a bit over the top and lots of fighting
and all of that.
But the whole episode is rooted in character and really good
character work.
And so I can kind of let everything else slide because I really
care about those characters and I want to see where this ends up.
But as a Star Trek fan, I also love camp space rituals stuff.
Like I, that's a nice...
I ain't just starstrate you like that in.
That's that's just great.
Like I just absolutely love that.
That's one of the things that we watch for.
We want to see people come out dressed as birds, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Shakespearean dialogue.
Exactly.
Of course we do.
And even like, I think even the very cheap shocks, like, 0 my God
Kirk's dead because it's played so well.
Like even that pays off.
Yeah, that's right.
It's played completely seriously, we've got no clue as to how he
cannot be dead, and I don't think, you know, we see McCoy give him
the injection, but McCoy's explanation for it is absolutely rooted
in dialogue that we've heard before.
And so we don't think twice about it.
And then we discover that that was how he saves him.
I think it's good.
You know, it's just solid.
Do you not remember how they tried to pull this off in TNG?
So there's that fabulous episode where Deanna Troy becomes a
complete vamp.
She puts these 2 crystals together and she turns into this like
evil witch queen trying to attack Picard with a knife on the
transport pad and they're like, 0 my god, we got to get them to do
the ritual again.
Right.
I can kill Troy for 2 minutes only.
Only 2 minutes.
And they actually detail the whole thing rather than just killing
her off and actually having the shock moment.
They're like, right, we'll kill her for 2 minutes.
Then we'll do the ritual and then she'll be fine.
Well, that's just kind of the whole climax of any kind, that, if
we sat down and gone, right.
So, Kirk, I'm going to kill you off with this injection.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, that you're right.
They would have absolutely had to kind of...
Like, McCoy clearly doesn't plan it ahead because he, no, they
don't go in there expecting it to be a battle to the death.
That's great as well, because all the reactions what they find.
Well, yeah, exactly.
It's still to death.
What do you mean?
It's just also the Shatner thing.
That's, I didn't notice that until this time through.
Just his reaction to discovering how heavy that stupid Vulcan
thing is the moment that the attendant lets it go and he's holding
it on his own. just a brilliant piece of Shatner business.
I'm starting to learn with TOS as well because I always kind of
wrote off a lot of the performances of 60s trek as being very
theatrical and, you know, Shatner being massive, you know, chewing
the scenery, like the best scenery chewer we've ever seen.
Actually, there are so much...
I'm not going to say nuance.
There's so much business going on in original trek.
You could watch it on that terms alone.
The episodes are full of it.
He's just really funny and likeable and relaxed.
And so sometimes it's all just a little bit over the top and
overplayed, but he's absolutely worth watching whenever you see
him.
And, you know...
Even the bit where he came out at the end there, right?
And he's behind Spock, and he's just waiting.
He's like, there was a massive brand of his back.
He's going to see me in a minute.
He doesn't know I'm coming.
No, he says the line.
He says, don't you think you should ask me first?
I'm still in command, you know.
So good.
So I think what I'm learning about original trek as we go through
this thing is that it is a lot more visually interesting than I
suspected.
It's a lot better acted than I suspected and at its best.
It's really well written and fought through.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, I think there have been series better than
this.
Yes.
But I agree.
But this sets it all up.
All of those series are playing in the playground with the
possibilities and this is opened and it does.
It's a built on it, isn't it?
This is such a brilliant foundation.
But the show does such an incredibly wild, weird number of
different things.
It's not just space battles every week or anything like that.
It's not just treaty negotiations every week.
It can be as weird as it wants to be.
You know, it's it's so bold, isn't it?
It's so willing to go out there as well.
I mean, Abraham Lincoln floats in space.
There's a massive smoking turd monster in one episode, the Easter
bunnies jumping around on location.
I mean, they're really, I don't know how we ever got to like a
latter-day 90s trek.
Do you remember stigma?
when everyone was very quietly talking in rooms about not talking
about the subject matter they're supposed to be talking about?
and it was just so true.
Like, how do we get from here to there?
Yeah, yeah.
Who knows?
Well, I mean, I think that that is one of the things that I have
liked about there being a new era of track recently.
So we had 90s trek coming in and reinterpreting Trek and, you know
creating something bigger and more complex than had gone before
it.
But failing, I think in certain crucial ways.
And then we get an entirely new take on Star Trek that goes back
to the source material and sees different things in it, things
that it likes and wants to emphasise and makes different choices
from the revival in the 80s and 90s.
And I'm really happy about that.
Strange New World is essentially like what if original Star Trek
had the budget it needed to really create this sense of wonder out
in space was a little bit more relaxed and treated its women way
better.
Yeah, absolutely with the ethos of original trek of like going out
there, new life, new civilisations, et cetera.
Yeah.
And I think watching the 2 in tandem is a really rewarding
experience.
See, I think the thing that Strangely World has done is that it
hasn't shied away from the kinds of high concept things that could
easily just face plant and fail.
And I think that's really great.
And I think that this version of Trek has embraced all of the
silly, ridiculous things that we were maybe a bit embarrassed
about in the 90s.
And I'm kind of happy to see that all come back.
And you know what?
It's charming as fuck as well.
Yeah.
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to
choose what we're going to watch next.
It's my turn and I'm on Untitled Star Trek Project.com slash
Randomiser.
I'm intrigued to know what you're going to select this week.
Well, don't get too excited.
All I've decided to do after slamming 90s trek in my closing
statement just now.
I'm going to choose a 90 strike episode.
So it's Star Trek Generation.
I was going to say, here's where we're hardest on this thing, isn't
it?
In this podcast.
Let's try let's try and find something really good then.
Yeah, okay.
Or something really hilariously bad.
I'd be happy.
Next Generation. is it?
Yeah, okay.
No, next gen, Deep Sa 9, Voyager, or Enterprise.
I'm kicking all of them.
Okay.
All right, pressing the button.
Oh, I don't know this one at all.
It's Star Trek Enterprise.
Series 3, episode 16 Doctors Orders.
Oh, it's it's a possible episode in series three.
It's it's fun, middling.
Okay.
You could describe Enterprise that way.
I mean, honestly.
Well, yeah, I guess so.
Look, yeah, I don't know.
John Billingsley's a personal hero, but I am going to press the
button again.
In the season, he's the hardest owner as well.
Seriously?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, so this is Voyager, season one, episode 11, state of
flux.
Oh my God.
Oh my god.
Okay, and I know I do this a lot.
This is the episode where Cesca is exposed.
Oh, really?
fucking awesome.
This is the episode where she says to Janeway and Chakotay, you're
a forge, Cotay, and you're a fool too, captain, and she just beams
out in front of both of them.
Oh wow.
What do you reckon?
I love sister.
Oh my god.
Do you know what?
prime factors and state of flux back to back and it's at a point
in series one of Voyager where they kind of dropped a couple of
middling episodes and then there's 2 absolute zingers to come out
back to back where one is about the premise of them getting home
and stealing technology from a culture in order to get that.
And Chevok is the one that steals it ultimately and bring, it
gives a brilliant speech as to how it was logical for him to do so
at the end.
And it's Kate Mulgrew's reaction to that. which really sales it.
But this whole episode is Martha Hackett's, like, coming out story
where the whole episode, she's like, Jakote, how could you ever
think this of me, you know, like, I am your lover.
And then at the end, she just goes full on supervillain.
It's just crazy.
I've seen this recently.
It's as good as I remember it being.
Oh, okay.
All right.
Let's do that one then.
Okay, let's do it.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Citron, and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 21st of August 2022 and released
on the 2nd of September.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, State of Flux.
Yeah.
God, I love talking about original series.
I really like it.
It's so good.
I enjoyed that so much.
That was great. such a good episode.
Is you?
Is it you?
Yeah, it's you.
Yeah, it's me.
Yeah.
Then I'm going to go to bed, I think, pretty quickly.
Really?
Yeah, I'm boarding a appreciation for the original track.
It might be my biggest takeaway, you know, from on title of Star
Trek project.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I haven't really properly had any reason to watch it.
I think it's because we know The rest.
So to see how this informs that is really interesting.
All right, it's the end of the episode.