WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:14:16

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Hey, Joe. Hello, there.

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So, you were a little bit excited about this one.

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We're watching Before and After, which is about episode 21, I

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think, of series 3.

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And you, for one, were particularly excited about the prospect of

6
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rewatching this.

7
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So how did that go?

8
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Oh, shut up. know how that went.

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We should have stuck with Dreadnall.

10
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That's what I'm going to say.

11
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I don't think there's been a bigger gulf between what I was

12
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expecting from an episode from previous experiences to what I

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actually watched this time.

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And I think my reaction to this was different because I was

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watching Voyager in order before.

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I'm going to go with that theory because I think season 3 is a

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really terrible year.

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And this sort of stood out as some, something quite at the time

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creative, a bit different, a bit quirky, you know, um, watching it

20
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in isolation.

21
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There are a lot of problems in this episode.

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Now, I don't think it is without merit.

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I think there's some interesting visuals in here at times and it

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is doing a couple of interesting things.

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But I, now I don't quite understand the point of it.

26
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I'm not sure why it exists.

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No.

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So, I mean, distant origin is in this season, and that is very

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good.

30
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But I'm not really aware of how the rest of this season goes

31
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although I did kind of watch it at the time.

32
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I found this really quite boring, and I think the problem with it

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is that there's a plot, but no story.

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So this isn't in any sense about Kess learning anything or growing

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or developing or any of our characters doing that.

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Are you sure there's a plot?

37
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Nathan, I think there's an idea and no plot.

38
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It's a very thin plot and the plot is she keeps going backwards in

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time until she gets the magic number 147 and enables them to reset

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her and set her going forward in time again.

41
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So it's fair. for a quirk of medical genius.

42
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Although this was just stopped or just a load of techno babble

43
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which I just kind of nodded my head as usual.

44
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Yeah.

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But I think, I think as an idea, travelling backwards in time, they

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could have done something very clever with this.

47
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And they do that wonderful section in the middle, which I think is

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the highlight of the episode where they set it in the year of

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hell.

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And that offers a lot of promise for what's to come.

51
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But we don't get the year.

52
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Well, I think it promises some conflict.

53
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There you go, at least.

54
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That doesn't happen though, because originally we're going to do

55
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the year of hell, i.e. they wanted to do a season and the

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Paramount execut said, well, this is all a bit bold for 90s

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television, having a season-long arc.

58
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So we'll give you 2 episodes instead.

59
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Yeah, it's kind of a promise that doesn't really deliver.

60
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Although, I have to say, the year of hell, and am I wrong, stars

61
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Kurtwood Smith as their opponent?

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And he is extremely good.

63
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And that's the best story is great.

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Yeah, it's probably the best Voyager episode that they did.

65
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But this was promising a year.

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Yeah, yeah, you know.

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I don't think they would do a trailer in the previous season for a

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two-parter in the next year.

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I don't think that's how...

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And also as well, they didn't know Jennifer Lynn was going at this

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point.

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So she was effectively going to be part of the year of hell, which

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is why she's part of it in this episode.

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So a lot of it doesn't make any sense in retrospect.

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Nathan, you remember I told you before how I found the science of

76
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Star Trek by Andre Bormanis in a charity shop.

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Well, I've got an update for you.

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I was pulled into this fabulous bookshop in Eastport.

79
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Okay.

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It's on 4 floors and it's floor to ceiling, books everywhere.

81
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And it's like a massive den of, but it's fabulous.

82
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Anyway, I thought I'd search through all the science fiction

83
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business, but actually, my raft took me around the corner and

84
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there was this entire library of Star Trek nonfiction books.

85
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I didn't have a lot of money, but I picked up this.

86
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It's called Captain's Logs, supplemental.

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And in it, it details the how Voyager came to be.

88
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Yeah.

89
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And I, you know what?

90
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Obviously, they went into this show with a lot of confidence.

91
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You know, they thought this is going to be the new best, biggest

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thing.

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And there's some interviews here, and I have talked to you about

94
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this a little bit.

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There's some interviews here from Jerry Taylor, who basically is

96
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the showrunner of series 3 that we're watching today.

97
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Um, and and there's a lot of anti-DS9 feeling here because DS9's

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in season three-ish at this point and it hasn't captured the

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audience like they were hoping it was going to going to.

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So Jerry Taylor is saying, you know, we don't want us to be deep

101
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space 9.

102
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That's a separate show.

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We don't want people to be unpleasant and not liking to be with

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each other.

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We think Star Trek should be uplifting and +and hopeful.

106
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Well, what came of that in the 1st couple of series of Voyager?

107
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It was fucking boring.

108
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

109
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Yeah, they very quickly throw away what could be a promising plot

110
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and something that made Voyager distinctly Voyager rather than

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just a sort of Star Trek, the next generation knockoff.

112
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They throw that away, you know, by a bad episode three, don't

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they?

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But how could she possibly say, we don't want conflict, and then

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create a show where there are 2 crews where the conflict is

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literally inherent in their situation.

117
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Yeah, yeah.

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Bizarre, isn't it?

119
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And then Jerry Taylor is the person who comes in and gets rid of

120
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Seska and all of that sort of fun pays on stuff. serial killer. you

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know?

122
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And it's really interesting because then you skip forward to, when

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they were interviewed at the beginning of season 2 and they're all

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going, well, this isn't really working, is it?

125
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What's going wrong?

126
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What can we try?

127
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What can we do?

128
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And there are a lot more humble in their interviews.

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And that's when they're talking about doing all the arcs that they

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do.

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But Jerry Taylor's in there going, oh, I want to do this.

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You know, like, I'm really worried that in the future, there's

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going to be episodes of Star Trek Voyager, where, you know, they're

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amazing episodes, but there's 2 or 3 scenes that are, you know

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linked into an arc that people aren't going to understand what

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they're all.

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I mean, she was so out of tune with the way TV was going.

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Yeah, exactly.

139
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And then we get into series 3, which is where we are here.

140
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And series 3 was essentially like, I don't know, like Hollywood

141
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blockbuster of the week, futures end, you know.

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It's all sort of the one sentence premise.

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Yeah.

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Without any kind of consequence, we're in full sort of TNG land.

145
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Yeah.

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And that's what we get with before and after.

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There's a few really significant problems with it.

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So I think, and I don't think it's because I've seen this before

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because I didn't remember exactly how things would go down.

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I couldn't exactly remember.

151
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I knew it went backwards in time.

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But it's pretty clear that she is travelling backwards in time

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about 3 or 4 minutes into any sort of member of the audience who's

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paying attention.

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Have you seen the amount of latex?

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They slap on her face.

157
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It's clear within 30 seconds.

158
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Well, yeah, that's right.

159
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And so it takes them about 22 minutes to work out what's going

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on.

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Like I checked the clock.

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It's about half the episode that they're trying to solve, and they

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live on a fucking spaceship.

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Like, I watch...

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You know, like, I watch...

166
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Yeah, that's right.

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If she's saying, look, she's going back in time, right?

168
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believe her, because this happens every other week.

169
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Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Mariner would have believed her.

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Like, the whole thing is just...

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I think the idea is, because when I was reading my memory alpha.

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One of the ideas here was that is that sort of memento thing of

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she's trying to, and then every single time she manages to get

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through to them, she's gone back in time again and we're going

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through the same thing all over again.

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It doesn't quite pay off in the way that Memento does, which is an

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extraordinary film.

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So I've seen Memento and it is nearly 20 years old now, so just

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very quickly.

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The premise is that the guy can't remember anything he can't

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retain anything apart from short-term memories.

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And so the way they simulate that is by telling the story

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backwards so that we can't remember what's happened either.

185
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So our experience of watching it.

186
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Is it Guy Pierce?

187
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And may I say that his return to Neighbours was a meteorics

188
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assassin the finale.

189
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Yeah, that's what I've heard.

190
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Very generous is what I heard.

191
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Very generous.

192
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He didn't have to invest any of that, what he did in...

193
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And he did.

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Yeah, so he's great.

195
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Okay, I'm going to tie this somehow into before and after.

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Well, Memento doesn't come out until 3 years later, so maybe it's

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the same kind of thing.

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We're all living our lives backwards.

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Memento comes out and then it gives them the idea in 1997 to come

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up with this story.

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Well, I think Kenneth Billow kind of took hold of the premise here

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of her going back in time.

203
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I was like, well, that's a really interesting idea.

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We'll get to see a little bit of the future and we can make that

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up and then we'll come to the present and we'll catch up with Kez

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there.

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We'll go back to Caretaker.

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That's really cute.

209
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And some of those ideas, the ideas are really good.

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It's just not tied into anything, is it?

211
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It's not really a puzzle.

212
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Yeah, no, it's not a puzzle, and those were good ideas in all good

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things, and in fact.

214
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That wasn't really a puzzle.

215
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Actually, that was a puzzle.

216
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It just had a boring answer.

217
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Well, it had a boring answer, but the future that they imagine in

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all good things is a bit more interesting. and it's because all

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good things are about.

220
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Exactly the same thing there. yeah.

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Here, the future that is foretold is that kids will have sex with

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Tom Paris.

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Yeah, and that they'll have a child who's like one and then

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Harry's going to bone that child.

225
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Like, it's gross.

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It's really terrible.

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When they were all in a room together, before they kind of explain

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the sitch, I'm like, what is going?

229
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this like some weird 4 way relationship, like what is going on

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here?

231
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Yeah, yeah.

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I'm just going to figure out.

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And then I remember...

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Our companies grow up very fast.

235
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So, you know, I'm being pervy, but actually...

236
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That doesn't help.

237
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That doesn't help.

238
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Like Harry would have been changing her diapers and then boning

239
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her like 18 months later or something.

240
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It's not good.

241
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No, you are wrong, you are.

242
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Honestly.

243
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I didn't write it. didn't write this.

244
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There is another issue I have with this, and that is, I think

245
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Jennifer Len is a good actress.

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I don't think she's a great actress, but I think she's good, and I

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think when they give her material, like, Jesus Christ, Warlord in

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series 3, where they turn her into the bisexual killer, I mean, she

249
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takes hold of that script and everyone's in her wake, you know

250
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like she's around, she's killing people, she's coming onto

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people.

252
00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.019
It's absolute, it's an extraordinary performance and a very dull

253
00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:40.139
episode, if I'm honest, but she, yeah, your eyes on her.

254
00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:41.159
Yeah.

255
00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:45.419
I thought she was given a lot of opportunities and it was just a

256
00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:49.500
very kind of soft, unengaged performance.

257
00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:51.539
I just couldn't figure out what she was trying to do.

258
00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:58.740
I thought that she was really good. in the swarm and I think that

259
00:11:58.740 --> 00:12:03.419
you know, she's got that deep voice and she's very pretty and she

260
00:12:03.419 --> 00:12:07.500
really likes the doctor and that really came out and she had to

261
00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:11.279
look after the doctor as he was suffering from dementia.

262
00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:13.919
And I thought she did a really, really good job in that.

263
00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:16.620
And here.

264
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:21.179
They kind of give her the other role where she has dementia.

265
00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:21.899
She has no memories.

266
00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:26.279
And so early on it looks like they're going to do another dementia

267
00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:26.759
thing.

268
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.360
And I think that there's so much latex there.

269
00:12:30.419 --> 00:12:32.700
Like, I think the latex is really unsuccessful.

270
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:33.299
It's terrible.

271
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.080
Yeah.

272
00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:35.580
And so that spoils it.

273
00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:38.279
But I've seen people play dementia.

274
00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:42.299
You know, I saw, you know, what was the film with Judy Dench and

275
00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:43.200
Jim Broadbent?

276
00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:48.840
Uh, where Judy Dench had dementia and it was played X. Oh, I can't

277
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:49.019
remember.

278
00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:49.620
It was Irish.

279
00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:50.399
Is that Irish?

280
00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:51.960
Yeah, I know.

281
00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:54.899
No, no, no, but, you know, they're both actually.

282
00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.500
Well, that's right, but not many actresses are GD Dench.

283
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:00.299
Shut up.

284
00:13:00.299 --> 00:13:05.340
But yeah, well, I just think she's got nothing to hang on to

285
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:07.919
because as I said, there's no story here.

286
00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:13.200
This is supposed to be something about Kes, but we learn nothing

287
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:14.940
about Kes from this.

288
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.019
We don't learn anything.

289
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.700
She has no arc, nothing really happens to her except a bunch of

290
00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:22.919
random things that she has no control over.

291
00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:26.100
Even when, although she has terrible taste in men in the future.

292
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:27.120
That's what we learn.

293
00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:30.840
And even like when she goes back to the past and it's like her as

294
00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:34.080
a little girl and she's going, oh, you know, one day I'm going to

295
00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:36.720
see the sky and then we'd go back to her as a baby and the mum

296
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.779
says in a very twee line, one day she's going to see the sun.

297
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.879
I'm like, we kind of know, we know this.

298
00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:43.320
We're not learning anything.

299
00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:44.639
No.

300
00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:45.000
Yep.

301
00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:46.679
And that's very quickly.

302
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:51.120
I don't I don't want to go too much down this rabbit hole.

303
00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:53.340
I know you're not too keen on it.

304
00:13:53.399 --> 00:14:00.059
But this was just before Jennifer Leanne left Star Trek Voyager.

305
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.779
There was every possibility that she was going to stick around and

306
00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:05.820
we were going to have a very female centric show.

307
00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:06.899
That was the original idea.

308
00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:12.059
I actually think Kez, Jane Wade, 7 of 9, Balana Torres, I mean, it

309
00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:12.960
would have been incredible.

310
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:18.179
But instead, the American population decided that Garrett Wang was

311
00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:22.080
hot as hell and he turned up on the 50 most attractive men in

312
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:22.799
Hollywood list.

313
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:26.639
So they went, oh, well, we're this, we're this shallow that we're

314
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.039
going to keep Garrett Wang instead and we're going to get rid of

315
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:33.120
Jennifer M, which I do think was a mistake because she's, I do

316
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.620
think she's a better actress than he is.

317
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.039
Um, which we'll see in this episode too.

318
00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:43.259
And obviously things didn't turn out so well for Jennifer Leanne.

319
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.820
It's detailed elsewhere.

320
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.480
There was some criminal activity, mental health issues.

321
00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:52.860
And I don't know, it's probably just worth noting that sometimes

322
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.320
because I think the decision to kind of act her off the show.

323
00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:57.419
That was the end of her career.

324
00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:00.120
She never really recovered from that.

325
00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:05.519
And I have heard interviews with people saying that on set, she

326
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.659
was a recluse.

327
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:10.259
She didn't get involved in the group activities where as soon as

328
00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:13.980
the scene ended, she went off on her own and just didn't engage

329
00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:14.519
with anybody else.

330
00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:17.879
I think she was troubled whilst they were making the show.

331
00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:21.840
It's incredibly sad because I think there's huge potential in the

332
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:22.200
character.

333
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:27.240
And I think this episode probably could have realised some of that

334
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.340
potential before she left.

335
00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:31.679
Can I ask one thing?

336
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:38.519
Do you have any idea what they had in mind when they decided to

337
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:43.440
make Kess a member of a race that has a lifespan of 9 years?

338
00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:47.100
Well, and she was what, too?

339
00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:52.139
So I think the idea was that she would probably die in the lives.

340
00:15:52.259 --> 00:15:54.779
Well, in the last season, yeah, she probably was.

341
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.580
We don't know what happens to it.

342
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.580
We find out in this that they get older.

343
00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.279
She could have just stayed as she is and then they could have done

344
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:06.059
like a anything like they could have done a euthanasia storyline.

345
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:07.440
I know in the last season, something like that.

346
00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:09.419
It could have been very touching.

347
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:15.419
The numbers, because she's 2 and they usually go to 7 years, does

348
00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:18.960
make it seem like they planned, they planned for her to die in the

349
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:19.500
last season.

350
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:19.980
Yeah.

351
00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:23.460
And there's an episode called Elogium, which has something to do

352
00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.320
with...

353
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:26.279
Yes.

354
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:31.440
So Elogium is some kind of developmental milestone like puberty or

355
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.980
menopause or something like that and some sexual thing happens.

356
00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:37.200
Wait, super horny.

357
00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:38.340
We get to that one.

358
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:40.799
She has to decide because there's the one point where she can have

359
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.700
a child and effectively Neelix decides he doesn't want to have a

360
00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:48.899
child so they're not going to have a child and all agency is taken

361
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:49.980
out of Kes's hands.

362
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.820
It's such a frustrating episode to watch because it could have

363
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:54.360
been brilliant.

364
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:57.419
And they're talking about Voyager being like an intergenerational

365
00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:59.460
ship, which is really interesting.

366
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.419
Plus, the ship is actually travelling through creature sperm.

367
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:05.579
It's basically the sex episode of Voyager.

368
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.039
It's all very strange.

369
00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:12.539
So in this, there's the morologium, which isn't just more horny

370
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:14.759
obviously related to the word for death.

371
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:19.559
And so this, so there's some developmental milestone which causes

372
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:21.660
it to suddenly degenerate at the age of nine.

373
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:26.880
It just seems a bit pointless and I guess this kind of shows

374
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.599
something that we can be grateful that the show didn't experiment

375
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:35.279
with, like having fast growing children on board, except for Naomi

376
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:36.119
Wildman, I guess.

377
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:42.779
I suppose this episode shows that the whole accompanied race was a

378
00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:45.960
bit misconceived and a bit troubling.

379
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:48.299
And I can kind of see that what they're trying to do.

380
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:52.259
But like many.

381
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:55.140
I think the trill are quite misconceived as well.

382
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.099
Some of those 90s races, the idea is, I can see why they went for

383
00:17:59.099 --> 00:18:02.579
it, but they don't really have the chops to explore it, you know?

384
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.299
No.

385
00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:04.680
Anyway.

386
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.119
What do you think?

387
00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:06.900
Should we get it?

388
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:07.859
We should probably go in, yeah.

389
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.619
We've gone everywhere in that little intro.

390
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.539
All right.

391
00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:14.039
So I'm going to count us in.

392
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:15.779
Here we go.

393
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:23.519
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

394
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:27.480
And so we get this line of dialogue, activate the biotemporal

395
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.319
chamber and then a flash of light. setting us up on the right foot

396
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:31.680
there.

397
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:36.000
It's telling us the answer, you know, like the so it's a

398
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.440
biotemporal chamber.

399
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.740
Then we have a discussion we're about to put her in the

400
00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:43.500
biotemporal chamber, but she hasn't been in it yet.

401
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.559
So we already know that she's experiencing things backwards.

402
00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:48.599
Something's very wrong.

403
00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:49.980
The doctor has hair.

404
00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.680
There's a woman there who we're supposed to know, but don't know

405
00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:53.099
at all.

406
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.759
Do you know, he has a couple of weeks in this, you know, a couple

407
00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:58.079
they get worse as the episode goes along.

408
00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:00.900
It's just such shocking American hair.

409
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.660
And like, I think he's a handsome, bold man.

410
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.359
I like Robert Picardo's normal look, I think.

411
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.880
No, a handsome bald man, you know?

412
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.460
I go to a lot of effort to stay this bald.

413
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.460
That's Harry's got, though, you know.

414
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:16.799
Did you ever see Patrick Stewart when they put him in a wig

415
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:17.039
before?

416
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.839
It looked just like that, you know?

417
00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:20.099
The screen test.

418
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.799
So this is her grandson.

419
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:24.059
Yeah, I think he's cute.

420
00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:26.220
I don't think he's a great actor, but I think he's cute.

421
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.059
He does quite a charming job and that, look at the neck.

422
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.460
Look at that latex neck.

423
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.700
It's so bad and the line down her mouth where you can see the

424
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:36.599
border of it.

425
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:40.380
Better at doing this now. sort of old people makeup.

426
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:42.119
Is it just a bit more subtle?

427
00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:44.099
don't think it's ever very good.

428
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.980
I really don't think it ever...

429
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.039
But that genuinely looks like, you know, someone's dripped candle

430
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:52.200
wax all over her face and let it set.

431
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:54.720
I mean, this is what the aliens look like normally.

432
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:55.799
You know?

433
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:56.400
That's right.

434
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.400
She's not that dissimilar from a Cardassian or...

435
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.319
Yeah, no, she's got a big rubber neck.

436
00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:02.160
It's very strange.

437
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.799
The kid who plays Andrew.

438
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:05.579
Sorry, yeah.

439
00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:07.980
This was actually his 1st acting job.

440
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.039
So I think we need to cut him some slack because he's done a few

441
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.980
commercials and by all lookouts. he had a fabulous time on Star

442
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:15.779
Trek. gorgeous, please. nice.

443
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.579
Yeah, no, I think it's kind of sweet.

444
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.460
But again, so we go to this distant future.

445
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:21.900
I'll guess it's not distant.

446
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:23.339
It's like 7 years or whatever.

447
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:27.599
And what do we find out about what's going on on the ship?

448
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:29.700
It's just not very interesting.

449
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:32.279
Same as what we're normally going through.

450
00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:38.160
Yeah, like one of Voyages, like just cringy parties on the, in the

451
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:38.759
mess hall.

452
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:40.079
You know what?

453
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.420
There's about 3 of them in this and you're right.

454
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.099
There's Star Trek Voyager banter.

455
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.279
It is the worst.

456
00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:50.160
They've got lied at the end, which I quoted you, which I'm going

457
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.140
to quote at the end of this episode. so terrible.

458
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.359
Oh, I meant to say before we started.

459
00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:59.940
This has what I considered to be so far, the single worst moment

460
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:03.420
of acting that we have seen on untitled Star Trek project.

461
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:04.380
I can't wait.

462
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.420
I can't wait to detail that moment to you.

463
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.160
Make sure that you say it.

464
00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:09.720
Don't leave us hanging.

465
00:21:09.779 --> 00:21:10.500
That's all.

466
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:12.599
I think we both know is Robert Duncan McNeil.

467
00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:13.859
Well, it's usual.

468
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.119
Yeah, no, it's really bad.

469
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.200
Don't come home, Santa flyers, all right?

470
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:20.039
Oh my god.

471
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:22.140
Yeah, no one at him.

472
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:22.859
Okay.

473
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:28.200
So, so the, we have the present here, which is just another really

474
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:32.279
obvious indicator, and it's one of the things that, oh my god, that

475
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:33.180
makeup shit.

476
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:34.319
Holy crap.

477
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:36.720
It's so bad.

478
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.680
It looks like your face has melted Yeah, yeah.

479
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:45.900
Like you can see where the latex ends and her skin begins.

480
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:46.500
It really bad.

481
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.259
Your eyebrows change when you get older because hers are a lot

482
00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:50.220
bigger than they normally are.

483
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:51.960
Yeah, I know.

484
00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:54.599
That's why you have to have them keep getting them clipped.

485
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:56.400
So, yeah.

486
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:02.160
So Andrew is her grandson who is the product of her daughter and

487
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:02.880
Harry Kim.

488
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:08.940
Linus is her daughter and she was the woman that we saw in the pre

489
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:11.640
in the pre-teaser thing, wasn't she?

490
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:12.359
Did we see her?

491
00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:13.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

492
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:15.119
You know, I thought the actress was pretty good, actually.

493
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:16.920
I thought she was fairly naturalistic.

494
00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:19.140
Yeah, yeah, I thought she was pretty good.

495
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:25.440
But I mean, they're lumbering poor, poor old Jennifer with this

496
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.119
ridiculous makeup.

497
00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:29.099
I mean, she just looked shockingly bad.

498
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:35.579
Um, and and like there's just a lot of lying around in this bed.

499
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:37.920
And then what?

500
00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:39.779
You know, like the worst party ever.

501
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.940
Like the future is so uninteresting.

502
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:46.319
You know, oh, it's a future and the doctor has hair and, you know

503
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:51.720
Harry's boning Tom Paris's daughter and the whole thing is just

504
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:57.059
massively uninteresting and Paul, what do you think of it?

505
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:57.960
For just 2 seconds.

506
00:22:58.019 --> 00:22:59.640
They could have done anything.

507
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:01.740
Yeah, literally anything.

508
00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.599
They know they're bringing LeBorg in.

509
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:06.599
They could have had the ship turn half Borg, you know, and drones

510
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:09.000
walking through and it could have been anything.

511
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:12.900
Yeah, well, again, think about all good things where Worf and

512
00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:15.779
Riker have fallen out and they no longer have a good relationship

513
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:16.920
with each other.

514
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:22.319
You know, Beverly and Picard have been married and divorced and

515
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.859
are sort of awkward, but still amicable, you know, data's

516
00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:26.279
retired.

517
00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:27.960
There's fun things happen.

518
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:33.180
In the visitor, they take where DS9 is at the moment and then take

519
00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:35.640
it to like the natural, so the Klingons are at war with the

520
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.480
Federation, which means they had to move away from the station and

521
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:41.880
all this whole sort of well building is done.

522
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:43.079
It's really extraordinary.

523
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:46.740
And I would say they're not interested in the future here, but

524
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:47.099
they are.

525
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:49.559
Because then they do the year of hell bit and they are detailing

526
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.660
stuff that's going to happen.

527
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.380
And like maybe they don't want to, maybe they don't want to take

528
00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:58.859
focus off the year of hell, but it makes for a really boring 20

529
00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:01.380
minutes at the beginning of the episode.

530
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.680
Can I tell you something that Ken Biller said, right, I was

531
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.480
reading this earlier on memory alpha.

532
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:10.680
So when Jerry Taylor chipped out of the show at the end of series

533
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:11.940
four, okay?

534
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.880
And people were a bit wary because it was this kind of sort of

535
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.240
female centric show, and the only woman on the writing staff was

536
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.880
off, and then it was going to, and then Kenneth Biller piped up

537
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:23.640
and went, well, don't worry, you know, because I have some

538
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.940
experience in writing female centric episodes myself.

539
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.680
Go and watch before and after.

540
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.440
He literally started this episode.

541
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:35.880
So I think maybe the focus here is not supposed to be sort of the

542
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.279
details around her, but Kez.

543
00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:40.799
But there's just not enough said about Kez.

544
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:43.380
No, but she can't remember anything.

545
00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:46.619
And she doesn't know who these people are.

546
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:51.720
And so we hear about these relationships starting, but we don't

547
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:52.440
see them.

548
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:57.660
I mean, we see we see her giving birth to Linus a bit later on.

549
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:58.920
Oh, Jesus.

550
00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:00.000
How is it they've given them?

551
00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:03.599
They have given Jennifer Leanne this incredible old age makeup

552
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:03.779
right?

553
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:05.819
And this is clearly what a decade or so in the future.

554
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:09.539
Chakotay doesn't look a bit different from normal.

555
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.559
No.

556
00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:11.220
Yeah.

557
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:11.940
Yeah.

558
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.019
Oh, here we go.

559
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:14.279
Now we're back even further.

560
00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:19.019
So her body temperature drops to 14.8 or something just before

561
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:19.920
hotel, isn't it?

562
00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:21.299
She goes, I'm getting cold.

563
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:24.000
Yeah, and then she hops.

564
00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:28.740
But the normal ocamp and body temperature is about 16 degrees.

565
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:36.059
Now a human being is 38. something.

566
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.660
At the right time, you know, I'm about 50 degrees at the right

567
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:40.019
time.

568
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:47.759
How do the men have sex with someone who is 16 degrees?

569
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:50.039
Nathan, why are you thinking about that?

570
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:50.880
Honestly.

571
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.279
I just want to know how they how they keep it up.

572
00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:54.359
Like, it's cold.

573
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:58.380
It's like getting a spoon out of the fridge to make it go down.

574
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.660
It's just...

575
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:01.500
I shall ask...

576
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.000
Draper, honestly, all right?

577
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:04.079
Yes, would you?

578
00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:06.059
He can write volume two.

579
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:10.079
Yes, I just don't think that that's, you know, that's someone

580
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.259
comfortable to hug, cuddle up to in bed or anything like that.

581
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.059
I just think that's miserable.

582
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.960
So and again, you know, the present is an obvious thing.

583
00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:23.400
I quite like this thing because I thought that they convinced as a

584
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:25.319
family unit, just on that level.

585
00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:28.319
I thought that's what they were basically trying to do.

586
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:32.579
But the whole sort of them treating her with kid gloves because

587
00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:35.099
she's got dementia.

588
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.559
Yeah, I wasn't really getting that, you know?

589
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.980
I don't know, maybe it's a bit too subtle.

590
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.599
Well, I'm worried about her right eye because the makeup there is

591
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:46.440
really bad.

592
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.259
Look, she can barely keep that right eye open.

593
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:51.779
Look, it's really terrible.

594
00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:55.079
Like, it's getting in the way of her performance.

595
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:58.019
No, so miserable, isn't it?

596
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:00.059
Surely when the Russians came in.

597
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:01.380
They said, should we reshoot this?

598
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:02.640
No, let's make up.

599
00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:03.900
It'll do.

600
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.720
So, yeah.

601
00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:12.660
So I think by now we already know, and we are how far into the

602
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:14.640
episode, like we're 8 minutes in.

603
00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:18.240
I think we've known for some time what this weird mystery is.

604
00:27:18.299 --> 00:27:20.519
And so what are we doing?

605
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:21.900
Like, who cares now?

606
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.000
We are waiting for everybody else to catch up.

607
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:27.480
Yeah, and nothing fun or interesting happens.

608
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:28.200
Do you know what I mean?

609
00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:32.519
Like, the present, he, Andrew gives her the present.

610
00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:37.619
Then he's making the present and he's sad that it wasn't ready in

611
00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:40.680
time for the party, which is about to happen because it was in the

612
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:41.339
recent past.

613
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.559
Like, that's it, like the present?

614
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:44.220
Like, what else?

615
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:47.400
Like, not interesting. details in there.

616
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.160
But we've said, haven't we?

617
00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:54.299
Like in Kazman Trek, how they get that sort of domestic angle

618
00:27:54.299 --> 00:27:54.660
right?

619
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:56.039
And it feels very natural.

620
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.160
Why is it so boring here?

621
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:03.180
Yeah, and like they could be doing interesting or clever things.

622
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:07.380
You know, if we're getting a storytold in the opposite order that

623
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:10.019
if you were clever enough, you could actually make that

624
00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:10.500
interesting.

625
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:18.359
And then there's this right, that this event causes Andrew and

626
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.240
Linnis never to have been born.

627
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:23.400
Yeah.

628
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.940
Well, I don't quite understand why any of this future doesn't come

629
00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:27.480
to be.

630
00:28:27.779 --> 00:28:31.319
Oh, well, because they actually say it.

631
00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:34.859
There's some lines of dialogue later, that every time she appeared

632
00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:40.500
in the past, she derailed, but by acting differently from how she

633
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:44.819
would have originally, she derails that future and kind of makes

634
00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:46.019
it...

635
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:46.799
What's the point?

636
00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:48.359
Well, there you go.

637
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:49.140
That's exactly it.

638
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.259
And so that's why, and that's the other thing.

639
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:58.559
The thrilling thing is that in a hilarious comedy scene where you

640
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:05.880
see Balana and Shayla killed in just one of the most ineptly stage

641
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:07.619
scenes I've ever seen.

642
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.559
I've just spat my drink all over.

643
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.920
Will you stop being so funny, please?

644
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:15.660
It's really bad.

645
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:20.099
And but then we are assured that it won't happen because this

646
00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:21.119
future never happens.

647
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:23.160
In that sequence, right?

648
00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:26.819
My wife was in the room and he goes, that one there with a long

649
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:27.119
hair.

650
00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:29.279
Isn't she the short-aired one that runs the bar?

651
00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:31.200
I'm like, you really don't understand Star Trek.

652
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:32.700
You've never watched it before and you're like.

653
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:34.319
And then they both died, right?

654
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:36.059
And I went, oh, how boring.

655
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.099
This is a future that never came to be.

656
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.559
They could have been decapitated or like, you know, Captain

657
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.160
Garrett.

658
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.140
They could have had shrapnel in their heads or something, you

659
00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:43.319
know?

660
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:46.079
Oh my god. so bad.

661
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:49.740
I think maybe because the idea has so much potential.

662
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:51.119
That's why we're kind of annoyed here.

663
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:54.000
Because it would have been really interesting.

664
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:55.019
Yeah.

665
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:58.740
Yes, it could have been really interesting, but it's not.

666
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.299
It's really boring.

667
00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:03.720
I'm going to spend the rest of this episode cleaning up my desk

668
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:04.380
honestly.

669
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:08.519
If I take a drink again, stop making jokes, all right.

670
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.579
I was being serious.

671
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.259
Robert Duncan McNeil.

672
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:14.279
Oh, here we go.

673
00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:16.140
Is this the bad acting?

674
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.079
So I said to you, the usual bad acting?

675
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.339
No, this isn't it.

676
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:21.180
It's in a minute, though.

677
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.759
I said to you that he is like the ultimate murder she wrote

678
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:28.980
performer in Star Trek.

679
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:29.880
And what is it you said?

680
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.200
Well, I said that he would have been pretty substandard in an

681
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:35.220
episode of Murder.

682
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:35.819
She wrote.

683
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:39.599
I can't think of a more of an insult to someone back then.

684
00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:43.380
I just think he's massively unlikeable and not very good.

685
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:47.880
And he is struggling with that sort of bullshit bro-ish kind of

686
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.539
dialogue that he's given, which doesn't help.

687
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:55.200
You know he's a really annoying white guy in this show.

688
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:57.059
And, oh, here we go.

689
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.319
We're back in time again.

690
00:30:58.380 --> 00:30:59.819
And he is kneeling.

691
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:00.480
Do you know what?

692
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:01.619
Actually, when need it turned up.

693
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.700
I was like, oh, Neelix.

694
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:03.839
I was like, what's happened to me?

695
00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:05.220
Yeah, yeah.

696
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:11.460
In fact, Neelix gets one funny line, I think, here, happy night.

697
00:31:11.579 --> 00:31:14.039
You know, he's been he's been peddling off those cakes made out of

698
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.079
Jabalian fudge for years, you know.

699
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:18.180
It does look quite delicious, actually.

700
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.319
I'd have a slice of that.

701
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:20.759
It does look good.

702
00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:25.500
I did like the line about because this is post then breaking up.

703
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.059
So I did like the line about.

704
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:31.079
And when she has to try and when finally convinced them, she goes

705
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:33.240
to Neelix and says, look, I'm going to have to tell you something

706
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:33.539
all right?

707
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.200
and you'll believe me.

708
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:38.160
So it does lean into the fact that they have a history and they

709
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:38.640
are close.

710
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:42.779
Well, in fact, remember that when she blows the candles out just

711
00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:48.720
now, he says, ah, I see the old lung is still working, yes, because

712
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:51.960
she donated...

713
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:58.440
I'd forgotten about mine. steal his lungs.

714
00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:02.339
That was one of the best ever episodes.

715
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.019
Although, do you remember the one where Baby Q literally sewed up

716
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:08.339
his mouth so he couldn't talk anymore?

717
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.720
That was even better.

718
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.220
No, but so he's a security officer, which I think is kind of cute

719
00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:17.579
in this. so that's why he's wearing a Starfleet uniform.

720
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.740
And again, like that hints at something, like, is it possible that

721
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:24.779
we could have had a more interesting future than this?

722
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:27.599
Like they make changes to the characters, but they're not

723
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:28.680
interesting changes.

724
00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:30.839
They don't tell us anything about the characters.

725
00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:33.359
It's like, oh, so Neelix is a security guard now.

726
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:37.140
Yeah, like that would, that would just never happen, would it?

727
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:39.900
I mean, Chewbong would just not let that happen.

728
00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:44.400
Well, in fact, there is a cute little exchange between the 2 of

729
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.640
them, which kind of was cute.

730
00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:54.119
Well, like it was almost a joke and so I kind of reaching for

731
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:55.200
things here.

732
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:59.519
But it was almost a joke and it is, you know, how annoying it

733
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:05.819
would be for Tuvok to have Neelix's... which I think, yep, you

734
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:10.319
know, because, I mean, I think Neelix and Tuvok, it never works

735
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.019
because the dialogue is so poor.

736
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:16.079
But I mean, they're both...

737
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.400
You sometimes find the odd mode.

738
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.039
The bit where he does is in need it's his last episode and things

739
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:20.339
like that.

740
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:21.000
Yeah, there are.

741
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:24.180
And the bit where it meld, where he simulates Neelix and then

742
00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:25.440
strangles him up against the wall.

743
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:28.259
I mean, that's priceless, that scene.

744
00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:29.279
But you know what it is?

745
00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:32.039
Leaning back into what Jerry Taylor said about, you know, we want

746
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:33.599
to make all the characters nicely nice.

747
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:37.140
I think that's part of the problem is everyone's so fucking nice.

748
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:40.319
It's fucking nice on discovery.

749
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:42.420
Like everyone on Discovery is nice.

750
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:42.900
They're not?

751
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.299
You've got George on Discovery. trying to kill everybody.

752
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:46.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

753
00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:50.099
But apart from that, like the current regular crew at the, as it

754
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:52.859
stands at the end of series four, everyone loves one another and

755
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:54.299
that's what the show is about.

756
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:57.059
They put them in situations where there's proper tension between

757
00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:57.960
them, you know?

758
00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:00.900
This is just, this is just, I don't know.

759
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.059
I was fucking watching neighbours right now, you know?

760
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:04.259
everyone's just so lovely.

761
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.920
Well, in fact, I think neighbours generally does a better job of

762
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.800
relationships between characters than this.

763
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:14.639
Maybe like Murder Shiro. honestly, your hit list is...

764
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:16.500
You know what?

765
00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:18.420
I think murder she rope does a better mystery.

766
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:21.840
Yeah, well, no, we solved this mystery in a few minutes, and

767
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:23.699
they're still fucking working it out.

768
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:25.980
Like they still have no idea what's happening.

769
00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:31.260
And they just go like, okay, which time travel cliche haven't we

770
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:31.619
done yet?

771
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:32.280
Right.

772
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:37.139
We've done the, you know, this, well, that's what lower decks

773
00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:37.500
would do.

774
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:41.340
Exactly what I would have laid this out in a second.

775
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.420
And so they're kind of working out that it's a sort of time.

776
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.260
Oh, here we go.

777
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.000
Now the doctor's working it out.

778
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:49.619
How far in are we?

779
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.519
No, no, he thinks she's got precognition.

780
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:56.940
She thinks it's psychic and it's not a time thing at all.

781
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.340
We just shouldn't be this far ahead of the character.

782
00:35:00.059 --> 00:35:01.260
No, absolutely not.

783
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:05.519
Because I think, are they holding back on being more interesting

784
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:08.219
because there's a mystery?

785
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:12.960
Because the mystery is really very easy to solve.

786
00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:15.900
And so what have we got left?

787
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.360
Well, maybe they're holding back because the solution is going to

788
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:22.260
be so terrifyingly clever and not a hand wave of taking them

789
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:22.440
back.

790
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:22.980
No, I know.

791
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:24.179
No, it's not.

792
00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:24.539
No.

793
00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:27.960
I think we might be approaching the moment now with the worst

794
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:30.900
piece of acting so far seen.

795
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.619
Well, the previous contender was Tom Paris and Blonde Torres in

796
00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:38.159
this exact room where Tom Paris was going, come on, B'lana.

797
00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:39.000
Talk to me.

798
00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:41.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

799
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:42.239
Oh, no, it's not just yet.

800
00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:44.400
Well, I'm going to tell you what it is because we can enjoy the

801
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:45.119
moment when it comes.

802
00:35:45.179 --> 00:35:48.480
It's the bit where the camera's straight in its face when she

803
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:53.519
vanishes and he just goes, you know, no, don't leave.

804
00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:57.780
It's so mad dramatic and unconvincing.

805
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:59.219
It's awful.

806
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.739
I was just like sitting there watching it in my hands going out.

807
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:02.820
How did they let this through?

808
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:04.739
Like who's looking at the rushes?

809
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:07.920
It's really...

810
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:08.340
You know what?

811
00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:12.539
I did not believe this relationship for a 2nd between Tom Harrison

812
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:12.840
Kess.

813
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:13.920
There is no chemistry there.

814
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:18.840
It's certainly not sexy, you know, like, no, I don't know what it

815
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:19.079
is.

816
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:19.860
I don't know.

817
00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:21.300
Oh, wait, this dialogue here?

818
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:23.639
Oh boy, was Neelix jealous when we 1st met?

819
00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:25.139
I know all of this.

820
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:26.519
Like, why do we care?

821
00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:29.099
And there was the worst thing about the show.

822
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:34.199
Like, I reckon it's what ruins Neelix's character more than

823
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:34.679
anything else.

824
00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:37.920
Like, I think he's quite sweet and jolly and irritating.

825
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:39.840
You know, like I don't dislike him at all.

826
00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:43.679
And sometimes he's quite good, but that was awful, and that was

827
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.480
his main character, beat.

828
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:47.519
Initially.

829
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:50.639
Oh, the one pirate pirate situation.

830
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:51.420
Is that what it's called?

831
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:56.039
where the 2 of them end up on the planet with the Muppet that they

832
00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:57.360
have to try and bring up between them.

833
00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:01.079
It's a new loaf for Star Trek, I'm telling you.

834
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:04.139
Yeah, and this...

835
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:07.559
Robert Duncan McNeil, the close-up here, you know, chance to

836
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:08.099
emote.

837
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:10.500
And look, Joe Carey gets name checked.

838
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.460
So that's a bit annoying, isn't it?

839
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:15.900
They're telling us all the things we're about to see.

840
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:18.599
We're about to see them die, aren't we?

841
00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:19.980
So don't tell us what's coming.

842
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:24.840
Well, unless you're going to make that suspenseful when it comes

843
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:29.219
you know, unless, but also, like it's a year of hell, but we

844
00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:32.519
didn't really realise that it would just be B'Elana.

845
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:37.199
Janeway standing next to one another and then falling over when a

846
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.460
console explodes.

847
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:41.940
I didn't see if there was any rocks, but I'll look out this time.

848
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:44.699
I reckon, but that was it. was the shitty thing.

849
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:49.320
Like, can I just say the console sometimes explode and kill our

850
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:54.119
characters is the most bullshit thing about Star Trek ever.

851
00:37:54.179 --> 00:38:00.179
Like, like, it's so lazy and so pathetic and it's because it's

852
00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:01.019
cheap.

853
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:03.659
You know, it's because it's realisable.

854
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:06.719
You know, we can't have them sucked out into space because that

855
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:07.920
would cost money.

856
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:11.039
And so all we're going to do is set off a little bomb in the set

857
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:12.659
and have them fall over.

858
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:16.800
Once again, all you need to do is exercise your creativity for 2

859
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.320
minutes and you could think up something a bit more interesting

860
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:19.800
you know?

861
00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:21.659
She's trapped it all away.

862
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:24.480
And they fall down a great height or something like that.

863
00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:28.320
Oh, they're in a shuttlecraft that, you know, like, is trying to

864
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:31.860
get back and explodes, just, like, even that's more expensive.

865
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:32.639
I don't know if you noticed.

866
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:35.099
They only put just a tiny bit of makeup on their faces to show

867
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:36.179
that they were dead, you know?

868
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:37.679
It's really bad.

869
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:39.900
Honestly, their heads should have been over there somewhere, you

870
00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:40.139
know?

871
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:41.639
Yeah, yeah.

872
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:42.659
So here we go.

873
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:47.579
Now we know what's happening and now, oh, look, now Kess has lost

874
00:38:47.579 --> 00:38:48.719
the makeup, which is kind of nice.

875
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:52.739
So she, unless, let's be honest, Jennifer Leanne looks beautiful

876
00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:55.019
there. beautiful, isn't she?

877
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:55.619
Yeah.

878
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.019
This is when I started getting confused because I'm like, okay, her

879
00:38:58.019 --> 00:38:58.860
daughter's still old.

880
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.300
She's young, a lot younger.

881
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:07.079
Yeah Yeah, so there is some dialogue saying that she's too.

882
00:39:07.139 --> 00:39:10.199
She's the same age as when Kess came on board or something like

883
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:10.500
that.

884
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:14.760
This was a bit where I felt it felt a bit like a swinger's party

885
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.260
you know, just but there's a baby there as well.

886
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.440
I'll just boning each other's family members.

887
00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:21.000
It's a little bit upsetting.

888
00:39:21.059 --> 00:39:22.380
So, yeah.

889
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:24.599
But I suppose actually, you know, they are, you know, trapped

890
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:25.920
70,000 light years away.

891
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:28.559
Oh, going to get a bit incestuous on Voyager, isn't it?

892
00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:30.480
Yeah, there are some adult females though.

893
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:31.619
There are people older than them.

894
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.179
The Laney sisters.

895
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:34.800
It's the Delaney sister.

896
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.500
Yeah, we're still trying to figure this out now, honestly.

897
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:44.099
So I think the jump to the year of hell is actually a bit of a

898
00:39:44.099 --> 00:39:44.699
relief.

899
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:45.900
Yeah.

900
00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:46.500
Yeah.

901
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:48.780
No, well, she knows what's happening, I think.

902
00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:55.679
And she, she's kind of, are they working out that the reason that

903
00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.539
she's affected in this way is the chroniton particles, like she'd

904
00:40:00.539 --> 00:40:02.340
worked that out just as she jumped here.

905
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.159
And so now she's able to explain it to the doctor.

906
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:08.579
And so each jump she learns more about what's going on.

907
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.500
But it's just not very interesting.

908
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:13.980
It's kind of like there's space radiation interacting with the

909
00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:16.079
space now. box.

910
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:17.519
Like whatever.

911
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.539
This is the most tedious.

912
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:20.880
Technophable reason for anything, isn't it?

913
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:21.539
Yeah.

914
00:40:21.539 --> 00:40:21.840
Yeah.

915
00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:24.599
And I know that's what Star Trek does, and I know that's what it's

916
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:25.199
always goes on.

917
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:26.820
I think even Kursman Trait would tell the story.

918
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.280
And obviously, there would be a technobabble reason.

919
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.519
It would have more interesting character stuff in it, but...

920
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:34.739
But this, but that's the crux.

921
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.099
Like this plot is she figures out the technobabble reason why

922
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:39.360
she's jumping back in time.

923
00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:42.659
She finds the reading on her tricorder.

924
00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:45.960
She tells it to the doctor who puts her in the thing.

925
00:40:46.139 --> 00:40:49.980
She goes back in time for a bit for no readily apparent reason and

926
00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:51.300
then she comes back forward in time.

927
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:51.900
Everything's fine.

928
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:53.400
And that's the plot.

929
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:55.320
And that's boring.

930
00:40:55.380 --> 00:40:57.780
And then the story is nothing.

931
00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:58.860
Like, there's nothing here.

932
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.539
The plot is thin.

933
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.960
I think, as we've said, the details are uninteresting.

934
00:41:04.019 --> 00:41:05.579
And she's a little flat.

935
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.199
So all those 3 things together.

936
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:12.599
Yeah, I just can't blame her for being flat because I think that

937
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.960
she would have to be there going, what the fuck do I do with

938
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:16.320
this?

939
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:18.599
Like, what do I do with this?

940
00:41:18.659 --> 00:41:19.619
How am I feeling?

941
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:22.500
Yeah, this was, you know, Kate Mulgrew. hell out of this stuff.

942
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.239
Yeah, yeah, maybe.

943
00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:25.139
Maybe.

944
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.019
But, you know, like again, she's having to act through that

945
00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:29.519
fucking latex as well.

946
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:34.320
And like the whole thing is just a little bit kind of weird and

947
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:35.159
upsetting, I think.

948
00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:38.039
Oh, this whole scene is technobabble. you see this?

949
00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:38.760
Yeah, yeah.

950
00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:39.420
Yeah.

951
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:42.780
So at this point, I probably was on my phone, you know, going, well

952
00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:43.619
let me know when you're done.

953
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:48.480
But the entire scene exists to set up the scene later on where she

954
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:54.059
goes and finds the torpedo and does the reading on her, you know

955
00:41:54.059 --> 00:41:54.420
thing.

956
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.260
But anything that requires this much setup needs to be rethought.

957
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.199
Like anything that needs to be propped up with that much

958
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:06.360
exposition should be cut or simplified because the scene itself is

959
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.519
boring and there's nothing to it.

960
00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:09.780
No one's feeling anything.

961
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:11.940
They just explaining this stuff to each other.

962
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.739
Wouldn't it have been like more rewarding if, you know, obviously

963
00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:19.500
we go right back to the point where she's conceived.

964
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:24.360
And then, I don't know, through what the journey that she's gone

965
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:30.300
through, that then has a profound effect on where she is now when

966
00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:31.320
she gets there again.

967
00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:34.019
I mean, you know, like her character has changed in some way.

968
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.139
But even that I don't think would be good enough because it would

969
00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:41.639
leave us with sort of 30 minutes of her just faffing and nothing

970
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:47.099
interesting happening to her and she there's a really terrible

971
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:50.519
special effects montage and she's learned a valuable lesson from

972
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:50.699
that.

973
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:54.659
And they almost, like they throw in a line of dialogue where she

974
00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:58.920
says, oh, if I've learned anything from these recent things, it's

975
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:00.719
that there's no time like the present.

976
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:04.679
You just think, well, wow, that's super interesting.

977
00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:07.380
But like in when they do this in the future.

978
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.320
When they do these sort of resets, like this, none of this ever

979
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:10.679
happened.

980
00:43:10.739 --> 00:43:12.719
Well, in here, it's just bollocks, it's bullshit.

981
00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:13.440
It doesn't mean anything.

982
00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:15.059
It's just, this is what could happen.

983
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.099
But actually, it's not going to.

984
00:43:17.820 --> 00:43:23.099
In timeless, when the ship crashes down into the ice planet, that

985
00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:26.039
wonderful scene at the end where Harry leaves a message to himself

986
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:30.000
and there's a real, there's a fant- it's so touching, and it's

987
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:32.099
like, you know, you've got the potential to do this, and it has a

988
00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:33.960
point in year of hell.

989
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:38.519
Even more brilliantly, I think, because it does annoy me that the

990
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:41.639
year of hell is erased. because I feel like they could have just

991
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.239
limped on for a bit and done the repairs, but it has that

992
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:46.739
spectacular explosion and everything.

993
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:50.579
It's not about our characters.

994
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.599
That's all reset.

995
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:53.039
It's about the guest character.

996
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:55.320
And the last scene is him.

997
00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:58.679
Not an evil villain like he is in the year of hell.

998
00:43:58.739 --> 00:44:01.320
Actually, his wife comes in and says, come on, I'm going to take

999
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:03.420
you away, get away from that and we're not going to go there.

1000
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:05.219
And the reset has a purpose for him.

1001
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:06.539
Yeah, yeah.

1002
00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:07.559
But they can do it.

1003
00:44:07.619 --> 00:44:08.340
And it's wonderful.

1004
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:10.139
I mean, that's terrific that ending.

1005
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:11.519
I think that's superb.

1006
00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:12.659
I mean, I hate them.

1007
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:13.380
I hate the rich.

1008
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:13.800
Here we go.

1009
00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:15.239
Here we go, here we go.

1010
00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:15.960
This is it.

1011
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:17.699
He's laughing.

1012
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:18.719
Oh my god.

1013
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.920
Wait for it.

1014
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:20.519
Wait for it.

1015
00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:24.059
I thought it was the happiest day of my life.

1016
00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:25.619
Oh, Jesus.

1017
00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:27.300
Every day, Nathan.

1018
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:28.199
It gets better.

1019
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:33.659
But then she's staring at him like a absolute moron.

1020
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:35.400
Like, what the hell?

1021
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:40.260
when you start so dumb, I like this, it's like terrible. happen

1022
00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:40.980
any minute?

1023
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:43.679
Because the temperature has dropped.

1024
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:45.480
No, prepare yourself.

1025
00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:49.019
Prepare yourself under the cheer emotion that he's going to

1026
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:49.260
deliver.

1027
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:55.260
Even the, you know, him walking through the, um, the containment

1028
00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:57.119
field looked as cheap as hell.

1029
00:44:57.179 --> 00:44:59.880
Like it was the most perfunctory special effect.

1030
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:02.940
But you know what, like, you know, this is going to be shit.

1031
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:04.199
So I'm going to talk over it.

1032
00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:05.460
I want to compare this.

1033
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:06.420
I know it is a lot.

1034
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.699
But I want to show you, talk about a time when this worked.

1035
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:10.679
This exact scene worked.

1036
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:12.000
Do you remember the visitor?

1037
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:15.480
Do you remember where Cisco came back and he's holding Jake's face

1038
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:17.219
and he says, look, just go on with your life.

1039
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:19.440
I'm not going to be around, blah, blah, blah.

1040
00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:23.699
Then Cisco vanishes, just like this, and Jake is like, don't leave

1041
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:25.199
me, and it is so moving.

1042
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.000
In here, you've got to keep Robert Duncan McNeil going...

1043
00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:34.559
Oh no, spare me.

1044
00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:36.539
Spare me watching her give birth, please.

1045
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:41.099
Do you know, I think the sound effects of her giving Bertha

1046
00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:43.619
absolutely hilariously gross.

1047
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.380
Like they're sort of popping and cracking.

1048
00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:47.880
They talk about a snack.

1049
00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:50.219
So I'm assuming it's like an egg. cracking or something.

1050
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:55.500
No, but there's also, I can see her toes, which I think is

1051
00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:56.099
wonderful.

1052
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.719
Like just, you know, the, that Ocampans have breech births all the

1053
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:01.079
time.

1054
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:04.440
And so you say I can see I can see her toes.

1055
00:46:04.500 --> 00:46:05.760
It's covered in gunk.

1056
00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:07.079
At least they've done the effort there.

1057
00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:08.280
Usually babies come out.

1058
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:10.559
Yeah, it's a time pristine.

1059
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:12.719
Eyes are open though, which is not a thing.

1060
00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:18.900
And and hilariously, uh, no baby is going to stay still enough or

1061
00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:21.719
tolerate having a camp and ears put on it.

1062
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.059
And so they just haven't bothered with that.

1063
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:25.079
Ears must grow in later.

1064
00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:28.019
Yeah, Nathan, do you know who directed this episode?

1065
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:28.860
Who?

1066
00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:30.780
It's Alan Croeca.

1067
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:35.099
And how I rate him as one of the best Star Trek 90s Star Trek

1068
00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:35.400
direct.

1069
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.400
He did like Sacrifice of Angels, what you leave behind, all of

1070
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:41.159
those big hit in DS9 ones.

1071
00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:42.059
Yeah.

1072
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:43.980
This is his 1st Voyager.

1073
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:46.260
And I think it's an interesting episode to give it, but I don't

1074
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:46.619
know.

1075
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:52.019
I don't think he actually gets the grips visually with everything

1076
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:52.920
he could have done with this.

1077
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:56.400
One of the impressive visuals you talked about before.

1078
00:46:56.460 --> 00:46:58.199
No, I see.

1079
00:46:58.739 --> 00:46:59.639
Okay, well, shut up.

1080
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:04.320
Yeah, no, but I only thought there were some impressive visuals.

1081
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:05.039
I just...

1082
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:08.760
No, I like someone of cards, like the cart to her hanging there

1083
00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:10.019
with her Sacko.

1084
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:10.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1085
00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:12.659
You know, some of those are quite nice.

1086
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.000
They made me sort of sit back and go, oh, where are we now?

1087
00:47:15.059 --> 00:47:15.360
You know?

1088
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:18.179
Yeah.

1089
00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:20.280
I don't think I once used the word impressive, you know.

1090
00:47:20.340 --> 00:47:21.300
I said quite nice.

1091
00:47:21.420 --> 00:47:22.380
Okay.

1092
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.780
I did think that little exterior.

1093
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:25.619
Oh, look, here we go.

1094
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:28.260
That little exterior shot of the shuttle turning up was actually

1095
00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:29.579
pretty reasonable.

1096
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:33.360
So again, like everything's a bit too pristine.

1097
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:37.019
The camera's just tracking in a very casual way, despite the fact

1098
00:47:37.019 --> 00:47:39.539
we're in the middle of... repair. telling you now, that ship is

1099
00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:40.619
beaten to buggery.

1100
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:41.280
Yeah, yeah.

1101
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:44.579
There's one sequence where literally all the walls are hanging in

1102
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:48.059
and the whole floor is covered in smoke and it's just

1103
00:47:48.059 --> 00:47:51.420
unrecognisable from the voyager that we normally spend time on.

1104
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:56.460
So as a trailer, it's not actually giving us the true extent of

1105
00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:57.059
what's going to occur.

1106
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:01.679
So the ship that turns up later, the Krenim ship that turns up and

1107
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:02.820
fires on them.

1108
00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:07.139
Is that what Kurtzwood Smith's ship looks like?

1109
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.199
I can't remember.

1110
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.039
It's got like a big claw thing at the front. remember that.

1111
00:48:14.099 --> 00:48:17.880
And the beam comes out and then there's a wonderful CGI effect

1112
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.639
where a whole planet changes, you know, because that's what they

1113
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:20.820
do.

1114
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.039
They change the timeline of a whole planet.

1115
00:48:23.099 --> 00:48:24.599
So yeah, yeah, yeah.

1116
00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:26.699
It's pretty spectacular.

1117
00:48:26.699 --> 00:48:27.420
I can say that again.

1118
00:48:28.500 --> 00:48:31.860
I mean, that gave it a human scale, didn't it?

1119
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.099
The fact that he's trying to find a timeline where his wife and

1120
00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:36.420
child still exist or something.

1121
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:41.280
Oh, yeah, look, I'd have this holiday program.

1122
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:42.059
No, no, no.

1123
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:43.860
This is the world in the background.

1124
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:47.519
Yes, he's got some pretty guys in it, but like, oh, I hate this

1125
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:48.539
holiday program.

1126
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:52.860
I just think it, this exemplifies Sirius 3 of Voyager, this very

1127
00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:54.239
tedious.

1128
00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:55.619
Let's all have fun.

1129
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:59.340
It's so bland.

1130
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:00.300
It's so boring.

1131
00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:03.480
So it's actually...

1132
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:09.719
It's a massive relief to see Roxanne at this point because

1133
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:13.320
everyone's been so boring and she's pretty good.

1134
00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:14.579
Like, she's pretty great.

1135
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:15.960
See, this ship looks pretty good.

1136
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:18.599
Yeah, so here we go.

1137
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:20.820
I think it's a little bit different, actually.

1138
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:21.719
I think it is.

1139
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:24.780
But, you know, this isn't the timeline that we end up in.

1140
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:25.320
So don't worry.

1141
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:28.019
No, I suppose, but I don't really.

1142
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:30.059
Oh my god, Kate Mould Group, thank goodness.

1143
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:31.199
Yes, exactly.

1144
00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:31.800
Exactly.

1145
00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:34.079
Like, why not kill off Chakotay?

1146
00:49:34.139 --> 00:49:37.739
We would barely have noticed. you know, and who knows at all?

1147
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:38.519
Yeah.

1148
00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:41.940
I mean, you know, again, it's shocking that he's called Captain

1149
00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:46.800
Chakotay or whatever, we know that, you know, um, Janeway must be

1150
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:52.199
dead, but, like, I think the only, the only interesting option I

1151
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.539
would have found with any of the men that she ended up with would

1152
00:49:54.539 --> 00:49:55.380
have been Chuvok.

1153
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:56.159
That would have been quite interesting.

1154
00:49:56.219 --> 00:49:57.000
Yeah.

1155
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:58.619
Yeah, that would have been quite interesting.

1156
00:49:58.679 --> 00:49:59.219
Oh, here we go.

1157
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:00.239
The console's just blown.

1158
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:01.739
The console blows up.

1159
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:03.239
They're just lying on the ground.

1160
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:06.300
Like, and they're just at the console, standing next to one

1161
00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:08.940
another, and then they fall over, and now they're dead, and you

1162
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:10.380
kind of think, oh, you know, really?

1163
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:11.460
That's the best we can do.

1164
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.639
I don't know if you noticed, but when they actually fell, there

1165
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.980
was no makeup on their face, but then we went back to them, they

1166
00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:17.760
were covered in blood.

1167
00:50:18.059 --> 00:50:19.559
God.

1168
00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:21.300
Yeah, yeah.

1169
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:22.440
No, it's pretty bad.

1170
00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:24.239
It is really half assed.

1171
00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:25.199
And I, you know.

1172
00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:27.840
I mean, I mean, we do have to remember sometimes they were

1173
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:29.699
churning these out and a lot of them.

1174
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:33.119
So sometimes those details get missed.

1175
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:34.380
Yeah, yeah.

1176
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:38.280
But I do think that the exploding console, which is a uniquely 90s

1177
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:38.940
trek thing.

1178
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:39.599
Am I right?

1179
00:50:39.659 --> 00:50:43.679
Do the consoles explode in original Trek or in...

1180
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.420
No, I'm not the money for that. did they?

1181
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.380
Yeah, but I mean, this is a sort of really cheap arse way for

1182
00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:52.559
people to die in battle is that they're like, how does that

1183
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:53.039
happen?

1184
00:50:53.099 --> 00:50:54.480
Like, how why does that happen?

1185
00:50:54.539 --> 00:50:55.679
What's happening there?

1186
00:50:55.739 --> 00:50:58.739
They'd have a pitch meeting in original series and they're right.

1187
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:02.159
We can either give you 3 exploding consoles this week or you can

1188
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:04.800
go on location and have the bunny from Alison Wonderland.

1189
00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:06.659
All right, we'll do the latter.

1190
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.480
We can employ a good composer to do the music.

1191
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:14.460
Or you can have...

1192
00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:15.719
They are awesome.

1193
00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:18.539
Okay, here we are.

1194
00:51:18.539 --> 00:51:20.460
Losing the bill to live.

1195
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:21.239
I don't know.

1196
00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:22.320
Somewhere dark.

1197
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:27.480
So in a minute, she, obviously, the torpedo comes in, doesn't it?

1198
00:51:27.539 --> 00:51:31.019
and strikes voyager and she has to go down the Jeffries tube and

1199
00:51:31.019 --> 00:51:32.579
be exposed to the ray.

1200
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.719
Now, in the year of hell, it's 7 of 9 that does that. and that's

1201
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:37.500
what blinds her.

1202
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:40.860
They don't get out in time and she's blind for the rest of the

1203
00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:44.519
story. which is how we all know it's going to be reset because

1204
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:46.739
obviously you're not going to be blind for the rest of the time.

1205
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:49.440
Well, and all the other things that happen, people dying and

1206
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:49.980
things like that.

1207
00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:53.820
But actually, do you know, like, oh, I'm going to do it again.

1208
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:56.639
There's that fabulous sequence in Starship Down where Quork and

1209
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:59.340
Hannick are deactivating the torpedo between them.

1210
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:01.500
And it's a 10000 times better than what we see here.

1211
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:02.519
Yeah.

1212
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:06.360
Well, I mean, there's like literally nothing happens in that scene

1213
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:06.900
does it?

1214
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:11.699
She just goes down, crawls down a Jeffreys tube, tries to do the

1215
00:52:11.699 --> 00:52:12.179
thing.

1216
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.099
Like, what is it even about?

1217
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:17.340
I just don't, you know...

1218
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.920
I suppose that's the one point where what they're trying to say

1219
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:23.940
about the future and this plot are intersecting.

1220
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.199
I hate you, like, I'm trying to look into something here. okay?

1221
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:31.980
Well, yeah, so this is a big plot development, but it is so

1222
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:32.699
boring.

1223
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:34.139
And how does she feel about it?

1224
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:34.920
I don't know.

1225
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:36.960
You know, what is she thinking about?

1226
00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:39.000
As she goes down the corridor, who can say?

1227
00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:43.500
Like it just there's no people in this story.

1228
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:44.639
That's the problem.

1229
00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:46.800
But you know what we come through next?

1230
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:49.440
and I think it's my favourite scene in the whole of this is when

1231
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:50.820
they go to the caretaker scene.

1232
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.639
Ethan Phillips clearly been watching the rushes from that day.

1233
00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:56.579
So he's like, right, I'm going to pitch this and he does, he says

1234
00:52:56.579 --> 00:52:59.639
the line's absolutely the same way he said to me in caretaker.

1235
00:52:59.699 --> 00:53:02.340
And then she's obviously like, 0 my God, I'm travelling through

1236
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:05.219
time, you know, and this momentous moment in their journey.

1237
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:08.099
But they don't get her hair right, do they?

1238
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:09.840
Like at that scene in the caretaker.

1239
00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:10.920
She looks...

1240
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:11.940
Oh, Nathan, all good things.

1241
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:13.739
Do you remember Tashi off hair?

1242
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:15.000
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1243
00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:15.780
Yeah, I know.

1244
00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:18.480
I like Janeway going.

1245
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:19.739
Sharp, Elix.

1246
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:21.179
Let's listen to her, you know.

1247
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:23.219
This is the sort of thing we're going to go for a lot in the

1248
00:53:23.219 --> 00:53:23.460
future.

1249
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:24.539
Maybe she's telling the truth.

1250
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:25.559
There you go.

1251
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:28.739
There's some point of view shots as she goes down the thing.

1252
00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:32.579
It looks a bit nasty that torpedo, doesn't it?

1253
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:33.239
Yeah.

1254
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:34.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1255
00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:37.199
Blowing, yeah.

1256
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.840
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that looks reasonable.

1257
00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:43.920
But it's one of those clots where she has to do this in order for

1258
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.880
this to make sense.

1259
00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:45.659
Like, you know.

1260
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:46.079
Yeah.

1261
00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:47.699
Yeah.

1262
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:52.739
Well, I mean, what's, I guess she's racing against time because

1263
00:53:52.739 --> 00:53:55.440
she's going to be burned to a crisp because that's what Neelix

1264
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:56.099
said earlier.

1265
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.559
Like, I don't know, she's coughing.

1266
00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:04.619
She's coughing a bit, she's got COVID and... kind of hairy.

1267
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:05.400
That's okay.

1268
00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:05.880
Did you see?

1269
00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:08.820
Sort of coughing out smoke. a bit like a cigarette.

1270
00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:12.119
It's radiation, right?

1271
00:54:13.019 --> 00:54:15.239
We've got to give it a visual.

1272
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:17.280
Oh, God.

1273
00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:18.599
And she remembers the number.

1274
00:54:18.659 --> 00:54:19.739
It's 147.

1275
00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:22.679
Oh, and now she's back here.

1276
00:54:23.219 --> 00:54:25.860
Oh, no, it's not caretaker yet.

1277
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:26.400
Where are we now?

1278
00:54:26.820 --> 00:54:29.099
I think we're in the present day.

1279
00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:30.900
Yes.

1280
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:31.860
Yeah.

1281
00:54:32.340 --> 00:54:34.559
So we can kind of enjoy this scene because it actually means

1282
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:35.340
something, you know?

1283
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:37.199
Like, like we're in now.

1284
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:38.880
Yeah, I guess.

1285
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.380
No, it's not now, is it?

1286
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:41.880
now the other now.

1287
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:44.280
Oh, I don't know.

1288
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:45.719
I don't know.

1289
00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:51.719
It's now, as in roundabout series 3, uh... more thought than the

1290
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:52.440
writer did, you know?

1291
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:53.940
Well, I think that's possible.

1292
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:57.840
Oh, I've forgotten, he's got his little hard light emitter or

1293
00:54:57.840 --> 00:54:58.260
whatever it is.

1294
00:54:58.380 --> 00:54:58.980
What's called?

1295
00:54:59.039 --> 00:54:59.460
Yeah.

1296
00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:00.719
Mobile emitter.

1297
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:02.039
Move on, yeah.

1298
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:04.619
He got that in the future's end, you know. the teacher's end

1299
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:05.219
that's right.

1300
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.059
Yeah, yeah.

1301
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:08.699
He gets to rescue them all from the hillbillies.

1302
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:09.300
Do you remember?

1303
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:10.619
He comes running in the cellar.

1304
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.559
Oh, they're like survivalists, aren't they?

1305
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:16.380
Like they're really sort of crazy old survivalists or something?

1306
00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:19.139
Oh, do you know what?

1307
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:20.400
There are some good Voyager episodes.

1308
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:21.659
It's worth remembering that, you know.

1309
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:23.400
Yeah, yeah, no, they really are.

1310
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:25.199
And the last one we did was magnificent.

1311
00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:27.659
Like a, you know, we did the counterpoint.

1312
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:30.000
I think it's going to be a while before we have one as good as

1313
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:30.780
that again, though, you know?

1314
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:33.059
No, that's probably about as good as it gets.

1315
00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:37.920
But this is, again, like, I know Star Trek is that we sit around

1316
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:41.699
tables talking techno babbler and I'm normally here for it, but I

1317
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:45.599
just can't care about what's going on here because it's all so

1318
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:46.559
meaningless, you know.

1319
00:55:46.619 --> 00:55:49.500
Can you think of a way that they could make us care about this?

1320
00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:52.860
Well...

1321
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:54.599
Is, well, anything.

1322
00:55:54.659 --> 00:56:01.739
I don't know, but if a story was being told rather than just a

1323
00:56:01.739 --> 00:56:04.260
series of stories being told and then thrown away.

1324
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:06.300
Like, there's no continuity.

1325
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:11.340
And so, like all that Kess, all that happens to Kess, is she

1326
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:14.099
learns more about the thing that is causing this.

1327
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:18.119
And it turns out that the thing that is causing this is 2 space

1328
00:56:18.119 --> 00:56:23.219
reasons, you know, affecting one another and it's super boring.

1329
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:24.480
Oh my god.

1330
00:56:24.539 --> 00:56:25.440
I just saw something.

1331
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:26.940
Did you know what they could have done?

1332
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.760
If she's going backwards through time, They could have like pulled

1333
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:33.960
out every sort of continuity era and she could gun along, corrected

1334
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:34.619
them all?

1335
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:36.480
Because do you remember, oh, now I do it again.

1336
00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:40.739
In Inquisition, when Sloane comes on the station and pulls Bashir

1337
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:43.500
up and says, right, you're going to be arrested, you're a Dominion

1338
00:56:43.500 --> 00:56:46.920
spy, and he pulls out every continuity inconsistency for the last

1339
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:47.400
4 years.

1340
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:49.980
So why did you do this?

1341
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:51.659
Why did the Dominion leave that runabout there?

1342
00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:54.599
That would have been quite clever.

1343
00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:56.340
Lower decks would have done that as well, you know.

1344
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.099
No, but this, I don't know.

1345
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:00.059
I don't know.

1346
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:06.719
This is to me, right, what I think people who don't like Star Trek

1347
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.780
think that it's like all the time.

1348
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:10.500
Yeah.

1349
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:14.039
I don't know, though. you know, because after this is the one

1350
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:15.900
where the doctor gets his hollow family.

1351
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:16.679
Do you remember?

1352
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:18.059
real life?

1353
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:20.639
And I think that's what my...

1354
00:57:20.699 --> 00:57:21.960
They're on the holiday deck.

1355
00:57:22.019 --> 00:57:23.639
He got like this soap opera family.

1356
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:27.179
I think that's exactly what my overall think Star Trek is like.

1357
00:57:27.179 --> 00:57:27.960
I bet you do.

1358
00:57:28.019 --> 00:57:32.699
I know I'm sure you do that. super cheesy, isn't it?

1359
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:37.019
He's like in a really, really crappy holiday simulation of a

1360
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:37.320
family.

1361
00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:40.199
Is he got a rebellious teenager or something?

1362
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:43.739
Son is into Klingon rock and he has his friends...

1363
00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:47.880
Oh, Gagore over. really awful.

1364
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:52.320
Well, that just sounds like a hell of a lot more fun than this

1365
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:52.619
though.

1366
00:57:53.099 --> 00:57:57.659
It has that wonderful scene because no, what happens is he's got

1367
00:57:57.900 --> 00:58:02.579
sorry, this is so boring. talk about that. where he programs them

1368
00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:03.599
all to be the perfect family.

1369
00:58:03.659 --> 00:58:05.280
What's that show called?

1370
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:09.059
They're like a beaver or something.

1371
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:11.699
Yeah, no, that is kind of the ideal I found in.

1372
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:14.219
Belana Torres comes along and halfway through meal.

1373
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:16.019
She goes, right, computer, freeze program.

1374
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:18.840
I'm not I'm not sitting here with these lollipops.

1375
00:58:18.900 --> 00:58:22.199
This is not what a real car is like, so she reprograms it and

1376
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:23.639
that's when he gets the rebellious team.

1377
00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:26.340
Was she reprograms it?

1378
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:27.539
So the little girl dies.

1379
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:28.739
I, what, bitch?

1380
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:31.860
And he has to go through, he has to go through losing the

1381
00:58:31.860 --> 00:58:32.280
daughter.

1382
00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:36.599
Yeah, and that's what being in a family's really like, that's the

1383
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:37.260
moral of that one.

1384
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:38.400
I mean it's pretty terrible.

1385
00:58:38.460 --> 00:58:40.679
That sounds a lot better than this.

1386
00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:41.519
I have to say.

1387
00:58:41.579 --> 00:58:45.239
Ah, here we have young case. played by someone else.

1388
00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:50.579
Um, and, like, this is a super boring scene as well because, like

1389
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:57.179
she can't convince him of the thing, you know, like she's got this

1390
00:58:57.179 --> 00:59:01.019
sort of thing of what's happening and and he just dismisses her.

1391
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:03.300
I got a production question for you.

1392
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:08.519
Do you think they have pulled out stock cave set number 52 and

1393
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:11.400
just put a load of cabbages in there because it looks like it and

1394
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:12.059
a ceiling?

1395
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.099
Just stock cave set one.

1396
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:15.179
I've said it before.

1397
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:16.739
I know. only one of them.

1398
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:19.739
But they're underground, aren't they?

1399
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:22.500
They're trying to reinforce it.

1400
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:24.480
Because she's never seen the sky.

1401
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.559
Oh, now, look, now she's explaining it to her dad.

1402
00:59:28.619 --> 00:59:30.119
I mean, how many times are we gonna have this scene?

1403
00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:31.860
Yeah, yeah.

1404
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:34.500
It'd be hilarious because she came out as a baby and tried it

1405
00:59:34.500 --> 00:59:34.739
again.

1406
00:59:35.099 --> 00:59:38.760
And she's airing the foetus, banging her, trying to get her.

1407
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:41.219
I'm going back in time.

1408
00:59:41.940 --> 00:59:45.960
But then I don't get it because then we just, it just turns.

1409
00:59:46.019 --> 00:59:47.639
She's she's conceived.

1410
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:51.900
And then we're suddenly in the present day and the doctor goes

1411
00:59:51.900 --> 00:59:52.739
well, I've saved the day.

1412
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:58.139
Yeah, so I took it that she sort of slingshots back for a bit and

1413
00:59:58.139 --> 01:00:01.559
then comes back and like, I don't know, whoever.

1414
01:00:01.619 --> 01:00:05.340
Like, they just want us to see her entire life and it just turns

1415
01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:06.900
out that it's not very interesting.

1416
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:12.059
Like, she spent years underground growing vegetables before that.

1417
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:16.800
She was a embryo, you know, like, Do you think we are supposed to

1418
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:18.780
be so enamoured with the premise?

1419
01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:23.400
Like, oh wow, this is such a great idea. cares going backwards

1420
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.880
through time.

1421
01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:25.739
And that is supposed to be enough.

1422
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:30.119
Well, I don't know, but like it's not telling a story backwards, is

1423
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:30.420
it?

1424
01:00:30.539 --> 01:00:33.539
Like that's, you know, like you need to be sort of reasonably

1425
01:00:33.539 --> 01:00:37.380
skilled so that it ends up being a story rather than just a bunch

1426
01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:38.460
of things that happen.

1427
01:00:38.460 --> 01:00:40.199
Because that's what your life is.

1428
01:00:40.260 --> 01:00:41.219
There's no real story.

1429
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:42.239
Do you know what I mean?

1430
01:00:42.300 --> 01:00:45.059
Like a bunch of things happen and then they stop happening.

1431
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.280
And like that's what's happening.

1432
01:00:47.340 --> 01:00:49.920
Kenneth Biller is not without talent.

1433
01:00:49.980 --> 01:00:53.639
He wrote the episode Nemesis, where Chakotay's on that planet with

1434
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:58.440
all those, and he literally wrote an entire language, like a

1435
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:00.059
metaphor for for the bit.

1436
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:02.159
And it's a really smart pace.

1437
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:06.480
It's not amazing, but it's got a bit of intelligence to it.

1438
01:01:06.539 --> 01:01:07.440
Yeah.

1439
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:08.760
I don't know.

1440
01:01:08.820 --> 01:01:12.179
Maybe, though, if you are churning out 26 a year and you're doing

1441
01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:14.219
I don't know, 6 of them. duds.

1442
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.639
And you've come up with a good idea. and actually discovering the

1443
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:21.780
writing that it doesn't work in any way and you kind of go, oh

1444
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:23.340
Well, we just better film this one.

1445
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:25.800
I hate to tell you something else.

1446
01:01:25.860 --> 01:01:30.000
Memory Alpha does detail this as one of the it's considered one of

1447
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.099
the best episodes of Star Trek Voyager.

1448
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:38.219
It's in a poll by Sini Fantastic, or whatever, the magazine is

1449
01:01:38.219 --> 01:01:38.400
called.

1450
01:01:38.460 --> 01:01:41.820
But I mean, what are people voting for?

1451
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.159
Oh, no, this, I love this line.

1452
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:46.079
I'm gonna become a security officer.

1453
01:01:46.739 --> 01:01:50.579
Fortunately, that's merely one possible future and it's not going

1454
01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:52.619
to happen and maybe something else will happen.

1455
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:57.179
And Elix goes, yeah, maybe I end up as chief security officer

1456
01:01:57.179 --> 01:02:01.139
which is like the only joke in the entire thing.

1457
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:03.840
And then that is followed up with, what is it?

1458
01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:06.599
I was told, maybe you'll leave Voyager and go and join a

1459
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:07.440
monastery.

1460
01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:12.119
And they all go, and I'm like, oh, yeah.

1461
01:02:12.179 --> 01:02:12.659
Really?

1462
01:02:12.659 --> 01:02:14.159
Yeah.

1463
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:17.219
So that's that's basically, you know, the conclusion we've drawn

1464
01:02:17.219 --> 01:02:18.840
here, just cheap jokes at the premise.

1465
01:02:19.019 --> 01:02:24.840
Yeah, I'm kind of in, look at that guy's swimsuit.

1466
01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:25.440
Holy crap.

1467
01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:25.920
I know.

1468
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:28.380
Finally, something of visual interest for you.

1469
01:02:31.619 --> 01:02:33.840
This set could not be more tedious.

1470
01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:36.059
I'm sorry Oh, yeah, yeah.

1471
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:40.260
And it's absolutely one of those outside inside sets that Star

1472
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:41.039
Trek.

1473
01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:41.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1474
01:02:41.639 --> 01:02:45.179
They're lighting this yellow enough to maybe sort of sell it as

1475
01:02:45.179 --> 01:02:46.320
the sun, but...

1476
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:47.760
I'm going to do a U style rant.

1477
01:02:47.820 --> 01:02:49.199
Why don't I just go to a bloody beach?

1478
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:50.039
outside.

1479
01:02:50.099 --> 01:02:51.300
Yeah, go to a resort.

1480
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:55.019
All these scenes in a day on a beach and then just put them in the

1481
01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:55.679
episodes in the season.

1482
01:02:55.739 --> 01:03:00.539
I mean, that is the big problem with 90s Star Trek is the

1483
01:03:00.539 --> 01:03:03.900
production is like a soap opera where they just never leave the

1484
01:03:03.900 --> 01:03:08.039
set and going on location is really rare and only for special

1485
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:13.139
occasions and it's bad. it's a problem. what they do.

1486
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:15.420
And then it's sometimes it's spectacular when they go on

1487
01:03:15.420 --> 01:03:15.780
vacation.

1488
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:16.320
Yeah.

1489
01:03:16.380 --> 01:03:16.860
Yeah.

1490
01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:20.639
Well, even, you know, futures end, where literally all they do is

1491
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:23.400
go outside, you know.

1492
01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:26.880
They take off the pyjamas. put on sousvies and they're just

1493
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:29.159
hanging out and literally down a beach.

1494
01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:29.940
Yeah, yeah.

1495
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:31.619
It's so much better.

1496
01:03:31.619 --> 01:03:32.880
But when did that become a treat?

1497
01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:36.960
It was always a treat.

1498
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:40.079
I mean, original trek goes outside, but not all the time.

1499
01:03:40.139 --> 01:03:46.079
And Star Trek, the Next Generation, series 2 of Star Trek, the

1500
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:51.539
Next Generation has one shot that's outside that's on location.

1501
01:03:51.539 --> 01:03:54.539
The whole thing is just shot in the studio apart from that.

1502
01:03:54.599 --> 01:04:00.960
And I think, you know, it is again, this is another one where like

1503
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:04.500
nothing looks interesting in that episode.

1504
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:06.420
What looked interesting.

1505
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:08.039
It's all the voyages.

1506
01:04:08.099 --> 01:04:10.800
And even in the future, it's still just the voyage effect.

1507
01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:11.699
It's all the same.

1508
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:13.260
Like they haven't changed anything.

1509
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:14.159
They haven't done anything.

1510
01:04:14.219 --> 01:04:19.260
There's really no effort made to show us something weird.

1511
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:23.519
Do you remember when we went to a compa in Caretaker where they

1512
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:25.860
had a budget of, you know, 12000000 or something like that?

1513
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:28.800
And it was these vast spaces and things like that.

1514
01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:30.360
Like, why don't they just nick some of that?

1515
01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:31.260
Use it again.

1516
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:31.860
Yeah.

1517
01:04:31.860 --> 01:04:33.059
Yeah.

1518
01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:34.199
Yeah, it's great.

1519
01:04:34.260 --> 01:04:34.679
Do you know what?

1520
01:04:34.739 --> 01:04:39.840
I think that is probably the largest golf between what I was

1521
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:41.280
expecting and what I got.

1522
01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:46.860
And I think it's probably the one episode that we've watched where

1523
01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:51.719
I can actually see massive potential and almost none of it is

1524
01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:52.260
realised.

1525
01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:58.980
Yeah, I wonder whether it would have taken a very, very clever

1526
01:04:58.980 --> 01:05:05.760
writer to be able to do the time backwards stuff in any way that

1527
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:07.380
was satisfying.

1528
01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:13.079
And either they are funny, you know, they they do jokes in the

1529
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:17.820
present and then the punchline turns up in the past, or something

1530
01:05:17.820 --> 01:05:18.960
interesting happens.

1531
01:05:19.019 --> 01:05:21.119
But like they've imagined a future.

1532
01:05:21.179 --> 01:05:23.760
They've taken us years into the future and have shown us something

1533
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:24.840
very boring.

1534
01:05:24.900 --> 01:05:29.280
Uh, then we've had a year of hell, which is pretty lacklustre and

1535
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:31.320
lacklustre.

1536
01:05:31.380 --> 01:05:32.340
That's the thing.

1537
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:36.300
Oh, the actual episodes are good, but that version of it was

1538
01:05:36.300 --> 01:05:40.139
really pretty boring. and all she had to do was discover the

1539
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:43.260
techno babble, find out the magic number and everything stopped

1540
01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:45.780
happening and like we didn't learn anything.

1541
01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:47.940
I can remember at the time, though.

1542
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:52.619
People were so excited at the possibility of this arc in the

1543
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:55.739
future that that was probably enough to get this a pass, you know

1544
01:05:55.739 --> 01:05:58.619
they were like, oh, something that this episode is boring, but

1545
01:05:58.619 --> 01:06:00.480
something exciting is coming.

1546
01:06:01.980 --> 01:06:03.360
Yeah.

1547
01:06:04.260 --> 01:06:09.420
You know, Voyager, like there are lots of episodes of Voyager that

1548
01:06:09.420 --> 01:06:12.780
I remember with great fondness, and there are some that I think

1549
01:06:12.780 --> 01:06:17.039
are really, really excellent, but I think this is worse than the

1550
01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:18.780
normal run of Voyager.

1551
01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:21.480
I think this is a uniquely bad episode.

1552
01:06:21.539 --> 01:06:24.179
Well, there's some terrible episodes of Voyager which are

1553
01:06:24.179 --> 01:06:25.980
absolutely delirious to watch.

1554
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:26.760
Yeah.

1555
01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:29.159
There's one there's one around this time, you know, called

1556
01:06:29.159 --> 01:06:29.940
displaced.

1557
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:33.420
I don't know if you remember this, where someone appears on

1558
01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:37.139
Voyager out of nowhere, and then they realise someone's missing

1559
01:06:37.139 --> 01:06:37.860
from Voyager.

1560
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:39.179
People keep...

1561
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:40.139
Yeah.

1562
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:42.480
And this is how they do it. like a slow invasion, you know?

1563
01:06:42.539 --> 01:06:45.360
They take, and then suddenly they start taking more and more

1564
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:48.119
people and then all the Voyager crew are in this one location.

1565
01:06:48.179 --> 01:06:49.320
They have to stage a coup.

1566
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:53.039
And there's a few people left on Voyager that are fighting this

1567
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:56.340
entire like population and it's terrible.

1568
01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:58.380
Like, it's really like a shit premiere.

1569
01:06:58.440 --> 01:06:59.039
It makes no sense.

1570
01:06:59.099 --> 01:07:02.880
But it's got a bit of energy and fun and they just go through it.

1571
01:07:02.940 --> 01:07:04.739
It's one wonderful scene, right?

1572
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:08.219
Where this terrible, terrible actress.

1573
01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:10.139
It's a one moment of television.

1574
01:07:10.139 --> 01:07:13.800
And they're storming the bridge, these people, and she kind of

1575
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:16.019
goes, seal those doors.

1576
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:20.099
Like, oh, it's glorious B movie trek.

1577
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:22.619
Well, I would take that over.

1578
01:07:22.619 --> 01:07:25.199
Like, you're going to say an ambitious failure like this.

1579
01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:26.219
Yeah, no.

1580
01:07:26.219 --> 01:07:28.199
A massive waste of potential like this.

1581
01:07:28.260 --> 01:07:32.579
Well, I think it's a premise that maybe looks interesting, but

1582
01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:36.599
that is clearly nearly impossible to capitalise on.

1583
01:07:36.659 --> 01:07:41.400
And, you know, like that's just not good enough.

1584
01:07:41.460 --> 01:07:44.880
It shouldn't really have made it past the planning stage because

1585
01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:45.659
there's nothing there.

1586
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:51.719
This would be a really tight lower decks episode. 22 minutes.

1587
01:07:51.780 --> 01:07:55.920
They could jump, jump, jump, jump, jump. lots of gags, lots of

1588
01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:56.880
smart rumours.

1589
01:07:56.940 --> 01:07:59.280
And I think the writers there have got the savvy to do it.

1590
01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:00.179
Yeah.

1591
01:08:00.179 --> 01:08:04.079
But unfortunately, we are currently in the hands of Jerry Taylor

1592
01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:06.840
Brannenbraga and Kenneth Miller.

1593
01:08:06.900 --> 01:08:07.739
Yeah.

1594
01:08:07.800 --> 01:08:09.239
Thanks, guys.

1595
01:08:13.739 --> 01:08:18.960
All right, it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode

1596
01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:20.819
and it's my turn.

1597
01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:25.739
And I am simply turning checkboxes on and off at random.

1598
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:31.439
So this is the collection of series that have nothing in common

1599
01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:35.340
and no underlying principle that I have decided to choose from

1600
01:08:35.340 --> 01:08:36.720
among now.

1601
01:08:36.779 --> 01:08:38.939
Can I impose something else?

1602
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:39.840
I know it's your turn.

1603
01:08:39.899 --> 01:08:42.899
But can I impose something on you after watching that incredibly

1604
01:08:42.899 --> 01:08:44.520
dreary episode of Star Trek?

1605
01:08:44.579 --> 01:08:46.140
I want to watch a good Voyager episode.

1606
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:47.460
No, no, no, no.

1607
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:50.100
I just think like whatever comes up, yeah?

1608
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:52.380
Can we just make it a fun one after that piece?

1609
01:08:52.439 --> 01:08:54.180
an antidote, a moment of relief.

1610
01:08:54.300 --> 01:08:55.619
Okay, all right.

1611
01:08:55.680 --> 01:08:58.199
So these are the series that I'm choosing from, right?

1612
01:08:58.979 --> 01:09:00.840
The original?

1613
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:02.880
Oh, good chance.

1614
01:09:02.939 --> 01:09:04.560
Next generation.

1615
01:09:05.340 --> 01:09:07.500
Deep Space 9.

1616
01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:09.539
Enterprise.

1617
01:09:10.020 --> 01:09:11.460
Okay.

1618
01:09:11.699 --> 01:09:16.140
Okay, like imagine it's, I don't know, the year 2000.

1619
01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:19.140
We've just done a Voyager episode and that's basically all we have

1620
01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:19.500
available.

1621
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:21.659
So I'm going to go with that.

1622
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:23.399
God knows what it will turn up.

1623
01:09:23.460 --> 01:09:26.279
But here I am pressing the button.

1624
01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:32.159
All right.

1625
01:09:32.220 --> 01:09:34.920
Oh, no, I don't like that. on your face.

1626
01:09:34.979 --> 01:09:35.760
Yeah.

1627
01:09:35.819 --> 01:09:40.020
This is season one, episode 21 of Star Trek, the Next Generation

1628
01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:45.420
the Arsenal of Freedom, or as we wittily called it at the time, the

1629
01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:46.739
Arsehole of Freedom.

1630
01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:52.079
It's the one, is it John Lovett, and some flying hairdryers, and

1631
01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:54.420
I'm already pressing the button again.

1632
01:09:54.479 --> 01:09:55.439
Do you know what?

1633
01:09:55.500 --> 01:09:57.840
I watched that recently. the Arsenal.

1634
01:09:57.899 --> 01:10:00.659
I watched series one of, I was in a hate phase of television.

1635
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:03.000
So I watched the whole 1st season of Next Generation.

1636
01:10:03.060 --> 01:10:03.659
I remember.

1637
01:10:03.659 --> 01:10:06.899
And that actually stood out as one of the highlights.

1638
01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:08.460
That's how bad that year is.

1639
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:09.239
Yeah.

1640
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:11.640
So I have pressed the button while you were talking.

1641
01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:18.239
And I now have Star Trek the Next Generation series 5, episode 23

1642
01:10:18.239 --> 01:10:19.680
Iborg.

1643
01:10:19.680 --> 01:10:25.260
Not very fun, but very fun. pretty good.

1644
01:10:25.979 --> 01:10:29.159
What happens when we watch it and discover that it's super

1645
01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:30.720
boring?

1646
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:34.020
I actually know that, but even before rewatching that, I think

1647
01:10:34.020 --> 01:10:35.819
that one is a little bit overrated, you know?

1648
01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:36.420
Yeah.

1649
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:39.720
Look, I think it's good, and I think Hugh probably sells it, and

1650
01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:46.439
we have done, you know, Hugh...

1651
01:10:46.500 --> 01:10:47.159
Yeah, yeah.

1652
01:10:47.220 --> 01:10:48.840
I just feel like you should have a current episode.

1653
01:10:48.899 --> 01:10:50.819
Record number of persons.

1654
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:51.720
More fun one.

1655
01:10:51.779 --> 01:10:52.140
Alright.

1656
01:10:52.199 --> 01:10:52.500
Okay.

1657
01:10:55.739 --> 01:10:57.840
Oh, God.

1658
01:10:58.020 --> 01:11:00.479
Randomiser hates me.

1659
01:11:00.539 --> 01:11:04.020
So this is Deep Space 9 season one.

1660
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:07.140
Oh, God.

1661
01:11:07.140 --> 01:11:10.140
Yeah, before they have any idea of what they're doing.

1662
01:11:10.199 --> 01:11:13.439
Season one, episode 7, celess.

1663
01:11:13.500 --> 01:11:18.180
Oh, it's so terrible. terrible.

1664
01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:22.020
It's like the it's like the episode where DS9 sold out in his 1st

1665
01:11:22.020 --> 01:11:22.439
year.

1666
01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:23.220
Yeah, yeah.

1667
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.279
It's just being sub-DS9 tribe.

1668
01:11:26.340 --> 01:11:27.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1669
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:34.739
No, it's just like, you know, Q has to guest on every series and

1670
01:11:34.739 --> 01:11:38.520
he's super offensive when he 1st turns up on Voyager and he's kind

1671
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:40.079
of offensive when he turns up here.

1672
01:11:40.140 --> 01:11:43.380
I think his 1st turn on Voyager is one of the best queue episodes

1673
01:11:43.380 --> 01:11:43.920
Death Wish.

1674
01:11:44.640 --> 01:11:46.739
Is that his 1st one?

1675
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:49.560
You're thinking of the cue and the gray, aren't you, in series

1676
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:50.100
three?

1677
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:52.680
Oh, I'm just thinking of him turning up and going on about how the

1678
01:11:52.680 --> 01:11:56.279
captain's a lady and stuff and that just shit. the one where the Q

1679
01:11:56.279 --> 01:11:57.119
wants to commit suicide.

1680
01:11:57.180 --> 01:11:58.859
It's really, really good.

1681
01:11:58.920 --> 01:12:00.539
He's a good actor too, that guy.

1682
01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:01.380
I think he's really good.

1683
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:03.420
But...

1684
01:12:03.479 --> 01:12:07.079
Yeah. cogenitor.

1685
01:12:07.140 --> 01:12:10.020
Well, you cover this episode on untitled Star Trek Project, episode

1686
01:12:10.020 --> 01:12:10.500
13.

1687
01:12:10.619 --> 01:12:12.239
Okay, you don't have to do that.

1688
01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:12.899
Yeah.

1689
01:12:12.899 --> 01:12:13.319
Yeah.

1690
01:12:13.380 --> 01:12:14.220
Does tell you.

1691
01:12:14.220 --> 01:12:16.140
Something fun amongst these shows?

1692
01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:16.619
Come on.

1693
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:17.819
Yeah, no, God.

1694
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:19.560
Why do we have this podcast?

1695
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:23.939
Okay, I don't know what this one is.

1696
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:25.500
That's it.

1697
01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:28.439
You'll know what this is, but I don't.

1698
01:12:28.500 --> 01:12:32.279
This is season two, episode 13 of Star Trek Deep Space 9

1699
01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:33.539
Armageddon game.

1700
01:12:34.020 --> 01:12:39.359
Oh, it's the one with Bashir O'Brien, where they're on the planet

1701
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:40.680
with the harvesters.

1702
01:12:40.739 --> 01:12:46.680
They're trying to destroy this terrible weapon and then they have

1703
01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:49.199
to go on the run because they want to kill them as well.

1704
01:12:49.260 --> 01:12:50.460
Anyone who had knowledge of it.

1705
01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:53.159
And it's basically a bonding episode between the 2 of them, press

1706
01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:53.640
it again.

1707
01:12:53.819 --> 01:12:54.060
Okay.

1708
01:12:54.539 --> 01:12:54.960
One more time.

1709
01:12:55.020 --> 01:12:55.380
This is it.

1710
01:12:55.439 --> 01:12:55.800
This is the one.

1711
01:12:56.220 --> 01:13:01.680
Your random Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode is season one, episode

1712
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.260
11, the Nagus.

1713
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:06.600
Oh, my God, that's really fun.

1714
01:13:07.319 --> 01:13:09.779
That's really fun in it.

1715
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:12.300
That's all right, Mark.

1716
01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:13.380
I like you.

1717
01:13:14.399 --> 01:13:17.100
The Wallace Sean is so great.

1718
01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:20.220
It's so awesome that he was on Star Trek. can't believe it.

1719
01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:21.180
What do you reckon?

1720
01:13:21.239 --> 01:13:21.720
I think we do it.

1721
01:13:21.779 --> 01:13:26.279
And the thing about that one is, that's before they kind of hit a

1722
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:28.260
tone with the Ferengi episodes.

1723
01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:33.720
So that is out and out of comedy. a little bit dark in place of

1724
01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:34.439
that one.

1725
01:13:34.500 --> 01:13:37.800
And it's the one where it's the one where Rom tries to kill Quark

1726
01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:38.220
at the end.

1727
01:13:38.819 --> 01:13:41.640
Awesome. do you think?

1728
01:13:41.699 --> 01:13:42.960
I think we should do it.

1729
01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:44.460
All right, you're on.

1730
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:57.300
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1731
01:13:57.300 --> 01:14:01.260
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1732
01:14:00.420 --> 01:14:03.300
com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and

1733
01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:03.960
YouTube channel.

1734
01:14:04.020 --> 01:14:07.800
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1735
01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:09.479
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1736
01:14:09.539 --> 01:14:13.380
This episode was recorded on the 10th of August 2022 and released

1737
01:14:13.380 --> 01:14:14.939
on the 19th of August.

1738
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:19.140
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, the Magus.

1739
01:14:35.579 --> 01:14:37.560
Thanks, guys.

1740
01:14:43.260 --> 01:14:45.899
Oh, miserable pain.

1741
01:14:46.140 --> 01:14:48.779
That has to be the ending, though.

1742
01:14:55.500 --> 01:14:57.300
Thanks guys.

1743
01:14:58.920 --> 01:15:01.260
I think we ended on a joke.

1744
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:02.699
That is a joke.

1745
01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:03.060
Yeah.

1746
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:05.460
It's better than that episode.

1747
01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:07.500
The crap episode.

1748
01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:09.000
I wasn't a struggle to talk about.

1749
01:15:09.060 --> 01:15:10.260
Jesus Christ.

1750
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:11.699
I, you know, I do fine.

1751
01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:14.399
I do often compare terrible episodes to other things.

1752
01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:16.739
I always want to highlight where it works elsewhere.

1753
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:18.300
Why isn't it working here, you know?

1754
01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:19.020
Yeah.

1755
01:15:19.079 --> 01:15:22.079
But, you know, yeah, there's nothing.

1756
01:15:23.819 --> 01:15:26.159
I haven't even thought about this.

1757
01:15:26.579 --> 01:15:28.079
Yeah.

1758
01:15:28.140 --> 01:15:29.520
Where are we going?

1759
01:15:34.140 --> 01:15:37.859
All right, so it's time to, no, of course I'm not going to.

1760
01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:42.239
Every one day.

1761
01:15:46.920 --> 01:15:50.340
Also, ah, man, there's something else I wanted to say as well.

1762
01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:54.300
It basically focusses on all the Dud characters on Voyager, doesn't

1763
01:15:54.300 --> 01:15:54.479
it?

1764
01:15:54.539 --> 01:15:59.039
It's not giving any focus on the doctor, really, not, you know, in

1765
01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:00.899
any great way, Janeway, Torres.

1766
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:02.279
Yeah, yeah.

1767
01:16:02.340 --> 01:16:04.859
Well, I did say that it was a great relief when she turned up.

1768
01:16:04.920 --> 01:16:06.600
That is exactly.

1769
01:16:06.659 --> 01:16:07.319
She don't do nothing.

1770
01:16:07.380 --> 01:16:07.979
It really was.

1771
01:16:08.039 --> 01:16:10.439
No, she just smiled and I just thought, oh, that's right.

1772
01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:12.899
Roxanne's here and she's really beautiful and charismatic, you

1773
01:16:12.899 --> 01:16:14.100
know, like, I don't know.

1774
01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:20.520
I am going to just picking things at random here.

1775
01:16:20.579 --> 01:16:23.279
Uh, okay.

1776
01:16:26.340 --> 01:16:31.079
All right, it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode.