WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:12:45

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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Okay, so I think we have stretched the term randomiser to a

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ridiculous degree, so far, because there's been very little

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randomising going on.

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We've selected the series that we've wanted to and then chosen an

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episode through that.

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For once in the last episode.

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We put in every single series aside from the ones that we've

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already done commentaries on.

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And perchance, we happen to, upon Star Trek Discovery.

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Nathan, why don't you tell us what you think of Star Trek

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Discovery?

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So I am a really, really huge fan of Kurtzman Star Trek, this new

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kind of iteration of Star Trek that we're getting now with this

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sort of incredible suite of shows that we're suddenly getting.

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And, you know, it all began with discovery a few years ago.

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And I think that, like right from the get go, I was on board

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partly just because it was a kind of Star Trek that we really

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hadn't ever seen before.

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You know, Berman Trek is sort of solid and generally competent, but

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it has a very, very definite look to it and a very definite house

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style.

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And so it was nice seeing Star Trek on TV that didn't look like

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that.

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And then Discovery initially, at least, was an attempt to do a

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sort of show set in the Star Trek universe rather than just a Star

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Trek show.

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And I really appreciated that.

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And it had all sorts of other things going for it that I really

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enjoyed.

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But, yeah, so look, I am a huge fan of 90s trek and always will

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be.

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It's kind of my 1st trek love, and I'll always sort of go back

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there, but I'm absolutely delighted to be getting so much Star

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Trek that I haven't seen a 100 times and Star Trek that is doing

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stuff that Star Trek has never attempted to do before, I think.

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I think for me, there's a massive comfort in having that body of

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episodes from the 90s and going back and revisiting those.

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And like I'm one of those annoying fans.

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It's like, well, I don't want new stuff.

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I don't want to focus. want to watch new stuff and form new

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opinions.

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I like the fact that I've got the library to watch.

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I turned off discovery halfway through the 1st episode.

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Outrageous. during those interminable Klingon scenes with the

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subtitles on.

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I was like, oh, what is this?

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And then I did try and go back and watch it and I didn't really

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connect with series one and it wasn't until you and I started

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talking that and you were so positive about it and obviously gave

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a typically smart reading on it.

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Oh, I was like, okay, I'm going to go back.

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And we kind of almost went through series one and 2 together.

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And I found it deeply flawed, as you know.

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Yeah, um, and then sort of halfway through Series 3, I abandoned

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it again.

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However, I'm not here to dump all over Discovery.

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I think, okay, so I've written down 2 things, a good thing and a

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bad thing because I feel like I need to be balanced.

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So the thing that, Really, I can't get on board with is how

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discovery reinvents itself every year.

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I know it was originally supposed to be an anthology series, wasn't

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it?

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Set in different throne zones.

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That was the original idea.

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And they have kind of done that in a way, in that series one is, I

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feel like was is one of the boldest years of Star Trek ever, trying

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to do something completely different to what's come before, to the

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point where they didn't even have like the crew assembled until

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like episode four.

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They can have to ship in into episode three.

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And you watch the 1st couple of episodes.

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You've got no clue what this show's about.

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Which is kind of exciting, in a way.

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But not what I expect from Star Trek, which is probably why I was

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like, well, what is this?

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Um, and then series 2, it went down a mad nostalgia route, didn't

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it?

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Like it was, you know, pike, spock and, you know, number one and

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there couldn't have been more nostalgia.

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And then in season 3, they've skipped into the future, into the

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unknown, which is very exciting.

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Really, and I think that 1st half of Series 3 is really good as

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they are building, like this future that we don't know about, with

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the Federation gone and the existing wells in different, you know

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in different places, that's really, really exciting.

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But it means I can't get a handle on this show.

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Yeah.

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And I, you know, with DS9, with Next Generation, with Voyager.

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They kind of set their store in episode one and that's the show

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you know?

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Yeah, I'm not sure that Deep Space 9 is that because it has at

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least a kind of soft reboot in the middle and it does go to places

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that I don't think they anticipated it going kind of originally.

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And I acknowledge that the biggest weakness of discovery is that

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it doesn't quite know what it's doing.

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And because it's the 1st Star Trek for a long time and because it

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had significant kind of production problems.

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I adored series one and I thought series 2 was kind of an apology

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tour for series one where they kind of walked back all of the

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interesting things they did in series one.

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But I thought series 2 was still solid and enjoyable.

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And I remember reaching the end of series 2 and thinking they had

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better not be going into the future permanently or I'm going to be

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really cross.

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And of course, they did.

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And I think it turned out fine.

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And as we record, we're a few weeks away from the debut of series

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4 and it looks like they're for the 1st time, series 4 is going to

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be set in the same kind of world that series 3 is set.

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So I think they found their groove, but it certainly taken them a

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while to sort it out.

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But a massive strength of the show.

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I think I think discovery is like the best example of how TV can

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look.

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Oh, God, it's cinematically good at times.

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In fact, I think sometimes it looks better than some of the movies

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you know?

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Oh, a lot of the time.

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Yeah, yeah I agree.

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Um, and I think it's the slowest of slow burns, go with me here.

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I have come to enjoy a lot of the characters.

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It took me a long time to get on board with this cast because I

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don't think you're supposed to like half them in series one.

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No, and I think there's something off putting about the main cast

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not being the bridge crew, and I think that that was a very

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definite choice.

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And so you have all of those people like Reese and Detmer and

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Bryce who are on the bridge, but they're not the characters that

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we're interested in following it all, and we barely know them.

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But even those, even those characters are, we, we're starting to

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get to know because like there's some scenes in this episode where

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where they're starting to give them a bit of depth.

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But as I think somewhere in series 2, that whole cast gelled

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really well.

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And you had, oh, no, I'm really happy with the name.

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Stamets, the redhead.

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I think he's really good.

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Tilly, okay, she annoys me a little bit.

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But she's really funny and really like engaging character.

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Um, Saru, who...

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Like, I can't believe he's not the captain anymore.

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Such a good captain.

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And you know my one big sticking boy, don't you?

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Michael Burnham.

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Oh, she is so good.

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Oh, she's a bowling.

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No, no, no.

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I think Sanequa is so charming and so beautiful and has like

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charisma that just shines off the screen.

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And I think they did lean into giving her a bit of, you know, weepy

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speeches thing in series two. which is a, yeah, yeah, which is a

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thing that can happen.

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But I think she's a great sort of charming anchor to the show and

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I'm hugely excited for series 4 to see what she does.

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Series 3 reinvents her character, I think.

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And, you know, there's a year, isn't it?

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that she's in the future before the rest of them.

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So she's settled and she's really at peace with herself and

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there's a relaxed charm about her that kind of wasn't there

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before.

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I remember and we haven't been watching Forget Me Not today.

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And in this episode, I think she's extraordinarily good.

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So, yeah, Michael Burnham.

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I think elements of her performance are sort of always there, but

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she is in a different, more relaxed place.

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I think you're right.

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So this is series 3, episode four, as you said, Joe, forget me

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not.

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And it was 1st broadcast on the 5th of November 2020.

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So, uh, very, very modern uh, compared to what we've been doing up

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till now.

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Do you think we should get going?

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Yeah, I'm ready to go.

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All right.

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I will just get on the 1st frame here.

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Okay, and I'll count us in.

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Is that all right?

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Let's do it.

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Okay, five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Something I absolutely love about this season.

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Yeah, this this into the unknown season is um, There are no

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certainties at all, is there?

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Like, with Star Trek, you know, they, they, especially 90s Trek

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they built up the quadrants, and we knew exactly what to do.

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All bets are off in this season.

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That was a smart move, I think.

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I think Star Trek's biggest weakness is its continuity, the sort

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of memory alphaness of everything, the fact that it all happens in

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this sort of world that has this sort of history, and they're sort

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of struggling to find corners in which they can tell stories that

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don't sort of break anything else.

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And one of the things that I loved about series.

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One of Discovery was how many risks they took with that.

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You know, they said it just before the original series and they

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did things that annoyed the fans about continuity.

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And I'm absolutely on board with that.

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Technology was amazing, wasn't it?

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Well, but I mean, what would you do?

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Would you put a show out in 2017 that looked like Star Trek?

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The original series?

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The whole thing about it is that it is very, very pretty

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pictures.

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I mean, just just the lighting, the quality of the direction, the

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music, my God. rewatching this again just now, the music is

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stunningly good in a way that Star Trek has never, ever had.

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It's it's I find the music quite subtle in this episode.

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There's a lot of bombasting discovery because there's a lot of

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action.

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But this is a gentle episode, isn't it?

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So it's got a very sweet score, I think.

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There was a potential for it to go a bit too kind of schmoopy as

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well, and it didn't do that.

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Like it resisted that.

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I think it's beautiful.

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So here we have to point out that I'm quite impressed that so far

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the cameras are moving at a fairly sedate pace through discovery.

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In fact, Jonathan breaks this week.

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It's all going it's in slow motion.

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It's even slower than DSnipe.

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Well, I think this scene is really terribly good, and I'm not

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normally a big fan of voiceovers and stuff like that.

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I think sometimes they're a bit of a cheat and there are some

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pretty ripe ones in series 2 of discovery.

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But I think this is this is good.

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And because I think, in between the voiceovers, he's interacting

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with all of the characters.

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And so we see this, what he says illustrated by what the

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characters are doing.

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And just now we sure us, just now we saw a shot of Kayla.

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Kayla Detmer, who has a sort of cyborg implant.

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And we're talking about her not being okay.

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She denies that we know she's not okay.

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And she has the implant because of the injury that she suffered in

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episode one of Star Trek Discovery.

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She was on the Bridge of the Shenzhou for the Battle of the Binary

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Stars.

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And so the injury, you know, the not okayness, is like visible on

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her face in the form of that injury.

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I think it's really good.

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And then here, we get talk of connection and belonging to a bigger

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thing at the moment that we see the trill symbion to appear on

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screen.

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Very, very clever.

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He says, he says, there's 5 words that, giving everybody hope when

246
00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:23.879
we find the Federation.

247
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:27.659
I sent you a message earlier saying that this episode leans into

248
00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:32.460
something, that Voyager did terribly, and it's built into its

249
00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:36.720
premise, and that is the idea of being cut off from home and the

250
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:38.279
emotional ramifications of that.

251
00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:42.000
Now, I'm, you said it extends to beyond this episode.

252
00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:42.960
I can't remember much of that.

253
00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:47.519
It's dealt with so powerfully in this episode and in a way that's

254
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.059
really affecting.

255
00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:50.100
I can't remember Voyager ever.

256
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:55.200
Ever pulling off this concept of being trapped away from home and

257
00:13:55.200 --> 00:14:00.779
being terrified to have no connection to all, you know, there were

258
00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:01.440
people back home.

259
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:03.059
It's really, really good.

260
00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:10.559
And the idea of connection too is so central to both plots in this

261
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:14.519
and and to the arc as well.

262
00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:18.659
So the arc is that they've got this message and they want to find

263
00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:21.179
the Federation, so they have somewhere to belong.

264
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:28.559
The A-plot, I guess the A-plot is Adira's plot, is Adira

265
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:34.620
reconnecting with her memories, but finding that she's many, many

266
00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:36.000
people in one.

267
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:40.679
She's a person who consists of a group of people and she's not

268
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:41.399
aware of that.

269
00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.120
And her connection with Trill and Trill's connection with the

270
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.700
Federation and everyone's connection with each other.

271
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.019
It's so rich.

272
00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:52.320
We're not in 90s trek now, are we?

273
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.440
No, God, yeah, the A and B plotter that I completely just get

274
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:56.940
there for people is just filling time.

275
00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:58.860
Yeah, what's 2 questions for you?

276
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:00.299
Number one question is this.

277
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:02.100
When did Adira join the show?

278
00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:03.480
Because I don't remember her much before this.

279
00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:08.700
So no, she, she, she's from the future, so she's from this time, so

280
00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:11.759
I guess she must join the previous episode, I think.

281
00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:13.980
Or maybe at the end of episode two.

282
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.539
I can't remember exactly.

283
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.940
Oh, here, we've got the titles.

284
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:18.419
What do you think?

285
00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:20.759
They are beautiful.

286
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.100
Really quite simple, isn't it?

287
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:24.360
Like, I mean, it's not.

288
00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:28.919
It's clearly a very sophisticated piece of effects work, but it's

289
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:29.580
a simple idea.

290
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:33.480
Mind you, it's focussing on the technology and that's my least, you

291
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:36.899
know, I think I like least about Star Trek, but...

292
00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:38.279
You know what I think it's focussing on?

293
00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:41.580
I don't think it's focussing on the, I think it's focussing on the

294
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:43.379
look of the show.

295
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.539
And because they're blueprints, they make us think about people

296
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:52.679
designing what Star Trek will look like in the 21st century.

297
00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.259
And they don't do it in Picard and stuff.

298
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.620
But look, there's these exploded views of the phases and stuff.

299
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.840
There's a little bit about the future here.

300
00:16:00.899 --> 00:16:03.960
Some of the technologies from, you know, they change the title

301
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.399
sequence every year slightly.

302
00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:08.519
And so some of the technology here is from the future.

303
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:10.320
We can't hear it.

304
00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:15.059
The theme is extraordinary.

305
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:16.080
It's beautiful.

306
00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:17.759
And you are right.

307
00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:21.059
All of the the latter-day tricks.

308
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:26.580
So Discovery lower decks and Picard have superb things. leagues

309
00:16:26.580 --> 00:16:28.019
ahead of 90s trek.

310
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:32.279
Well, Lower Decks is a is a love letter to...

311
00:16:32.340 --> 00:16:33.360
That is great fun.

312
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:34.259
Yeah, yeah.

313
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:35.519
But the music is as well.

314
00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:37.559
Like, it's very kind of 90s track.

315
00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:40.559
My 2nd question she was, yes, there's nothing to do with the

316
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:40.860
episode.

317
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:42.419
I thought that doctor had died.

318
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:44.519
Yeah, he got better.

319
00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:47.220
You know, did he just come back?

320
00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:47.940
Yeah.

321
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.899
Have you haven't been watching the latest series of lower decks

322
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:53.940
where that happens to a crew member as well.

323
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.840
And there's a whole thing about them talking about how that always

324
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:03.000
happens to the bridge crew and, you know, like Boem was not

325
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.339
allowed to ask how it happened and stuff like that.

326
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:06.599
So it is a thing.

327
00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:07.980
It is earned.

328
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.220
It does take a long time and a lot of effort.

329
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:15.779
And it is clearly because killing him was a horrible mistake in

330
00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:16.680
series one.

331
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.980
I was about to say, she, what's the doctor's name in this?

332
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:23.519
Because in GNG, it would be like, you know, Dr. Crusher has, she's

333
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:25.559
brought him back with her usual skill, but he is the doctor.

334
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:26.279
So that don't work.

335
00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:31.200
I think it's ironic that the episode of discovery that we have

336
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:36.839
been selected is the most 90s trek episode of discovery I can

337
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:37.200
think of.

338
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.759
Yeah, well, the other thing about Kurtzman Trek that I adore is

339
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.240
that it loves Star Trek in all its forms.

340
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:47.279
Especially lower decks.

341
00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:50.700
Yeah, well, Lower Decks is a love letter to 90s Trek, but it's

342
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:52.920
constantly riffing on original Trek as well.

343
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:55.619
And the animated series, for God's sake.

344
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.660
The great stature of Chief O'Brien.

345
00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.680
Yeah, yeah.

346
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:03.599
And then this, and I think they find something, you'll know this

347
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.119
better than me, but I think they find something more interesting

348
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:11.400
to do with the trill than they ever manage with Jadzia or

349
00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.759
something different, a new way of conceptualising the trill.

350
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:17.400
They did interesting things with the true.

351
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.220
She used to be a mass murderer.

352
00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:27.240
Um, but, uh, you say that, this is a direct sequel to the

353
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:27.599
episode.

354
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:28.799
Yeah, yeah, I know.

355
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:33.299
Because I watched, forget me not, an equilibrium back to back just

356
00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:37.740
because I wanted to see how faithful they were to equilibrium.

357
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.099
And like the scenes set in the symbian pools.

358
00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.759
I think, you know, obviously it's a bit more visually stunning in

359
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:44.880
this.

360
00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:47.819
But essentially they look exactly the same.

361
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:49.019
Yeah.

362
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.859
Well, they love 90s track and and the trill.

363
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.460
And of course, these guys are from the era of TOS, they don't know

364
00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:57.660
about the trills.

365
00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:03.180
And and Saru had to explain to Michael who they were and what

366
00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:07.019
their deal was, you know, presumably because he's got the sphere

367
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:09.900
information or whatever from last year and so he knows all about

368
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:10.140
it.

369
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:21.000
And what it is, is that you become part of a group of people, that

370
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.779
you become a person who is made up of other people, and just the

371
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:29.880
richness of that, and the way that it resonates with a crew

372
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:35.160
becoming a group of people together or Discovery, joining the

373
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.160
Federation or Trill, joining the Federation, I think, is it's so

374
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:38.940
good.

375
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.779
It is so good.

376
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.200
But we get some painful moments leading up to that, I think.

377
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:47.640
I mean, I felt that that moment where we're not there yet.

378
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:50.400
We'll get there, where they're all around the table, having the

379
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.740
dinner and laughing and joking and it all gets very soon.

380
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.900
That's the 1st time I felt like this whole crew, you know, was

381
00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.359
coming together and I felt like they were an ensemble, you know?

382
00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.880
Yeah, that's how they get you though, because it all falls to

383
00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.640
pieces, obviously. very well done.

384
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:05.039
Oh, see, now, I remember.

385
00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:07.500
See, this pair here, Tilly and Stamets.

386
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:09.480
I think that's a really great combination.

387
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:11.039
And I remember a scene.

388
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:14.460
I think it's in series 2 where they start singing a David Bowie

389
00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:18.779
song and that was the moment when I was convinced that I could get

390
00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:19.920
on board with Discovery.

391
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:22.380
It was it was a really sweet, really funny moment.

392
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.180
They have a really nice relationship, I think.

393
00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah, I think they do too.

394
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:27.119
Now, look here.

395
00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:34.019
She has a holographic, um, a paranoia board with all the pins and

396
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:37.500
and like red thread joining them together.

397
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:42.720
Like with photos of the burn and all of that sort of thing.

398
00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:44.519
It's a big hologram in front of her.

399
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.720
I was so excited by that.

400
00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:46.859
It's her murder board.

401
00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:50.519
I really like her performers in this scene.

402
00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:53.759
Yeah, like her performance irritates me quite a lot.

403
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:54.539
I won't lie.

404
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.480
In this episode, I don't know, there's just something really

405
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.579
gentle about her that I really like.

406
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:01.140
Well, I think that's always been there.

407
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.799
I think that that is, you know, what her character is, but she has

408
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:09.960
to kind of work her way back, you know, from losing everything and

409
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:11.880
all of that sort of thing in series one.

410
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.440
But there's a real kind of gentleness to it, but I just think

411
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.599
there's a charm and there's...

412
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.680
That's the difference.

413
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:20.640
They cover tears.

414
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:23.759
There are some tears in this episode, I think, but I think they're

415
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:24.660
a little bit more earned.

416
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:26.039
Or we're just not sick of them.

417
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:29.220
We're just not sick of them at this point. they even have a line

418
00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:30.720
kind of making fun of that a little bit.

419
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.180
Can we talk about Hugh?

420
00:21:33.539 --> 00:21:35.039
Go on.

421
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:35.759
He's very hot.

422
00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:38.400
He's so sweet.

423
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:42.299
He also has been very sweet and gentle.

424
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:46.079
And he's foregrounded here in a way that he hasn't been since he

425
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.740
had the kind of I'm dead and now I'm better subplot.

426
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.059
And I think he's great.

427
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.460
He's a good choice here.

428
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:59.940
If if Brian Fuller had remained in charge of discovery.

429
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.839
Yeah, because he was summarily fired, wasn't he, somewhere in

430
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.440
season one.

431
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:08.099
Um, I don't think he would have come back.

432
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.859
I don't think we would be leaning so much into 90s trek.

433
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.819
I think the show would be going down the direction it went in

434
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:15.480
series one.

435
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:17.759
It would be a very very different show to what it is now.

436
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:22.319
Um, I'm really pleased it went this way if I'm monitoring you.

437
00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.519
Yeah, I think for me it is getting a little bit more standard Star

438
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.759
Trek in a way that disappoints me slightly, but I am hoping that

439
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.339
with strange new worlds coming.

440
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:38.519
Well, you know, because this doesn't have to be all of Star Trek

441
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:43.259
anymore, Star Trek can all be different and do different things.

442
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.559
And so if you've got a slightly more TRAD version of Star Trek

443
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:51.359
that's a little bit less serialised and a little bit more like, you

444
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:54.900
know, the procedural that all the previous Star Trek's have been

445
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:56.460
except maybe Deep Space Night.

446
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:01.079
Um, then this will be free to do something a little bit more

447
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.900
interesting and a little bit longer term.

448
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:11.460
But then it turns out as well that that the cast of Strange New

449
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:14.099
Worlds is really diverse and strange, like it's going to be super

450
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:14.940
interesting, I think.

451
00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:20.759
We just pause for a moment um, to comment on how completely

452
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:22.799
charming a deer raise.

453
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:23.759
Yeah.

454
00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:27.180
I think she, this is the most likeable character I've seen in

455
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:27.779
Discovery.

456
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.420
Um, there's a there's like a warmth to her.

457
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.799
There's a vulnerability to her.

458
00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:37.140
I instantly liked her in this and um, oh, wow, I don't want to

459
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:39.960
talk about what's going to happen later on in the episode, but the

460
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.740
direction they go in with the, the, the love affair.

461
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:45.180
Oh, it's beautiful.

462
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.160
It's the best thing they do this season I think.

463
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:50.160
She, it's the vulnerability.

464
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:57.180
There's a real awkwardness, and she seems, I think, look, we all

465
00:23:57.180 --> 00:24:00.960
know that Adira will come out as non-binary later in the season

466
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:06.119
and she'll start using they them pronouns, and they'll say that

467
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.640
that's what they're more comfortable with, and that's how they

468
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.900
kind of identify.

469
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:15.539
And the actor themselves, Blue Del Barrio identifies the same

470
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:15.779
way.

471
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.740
And so we have a non-binary character in Star Trek, and we're

472
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:25.259
going to have a trans character played by Ian Alexander as Gray.

473
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:31.319
And there is something actually rather sweet in the way that

474
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.960
they're introduced into Star Trek, because queer characters have

475
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.319
been a long time coming to Star Trek.

476
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:38.400
Thanks, Rick Berman.

477
00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:40.319
It's acknowledged.

478
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:46.500
It's acknowledged in the DS9 documentary, Ira Bear, chastises

479
00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:47.039
himself.

480
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:47.940
Right.

481
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:49.500
But not being...

482
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.619
He goes, we got a lot of things right for not being brave enough

483
00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:55.559
because Garak was supposed to be a gay character in DS9 and they

484
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:59.099
pushed away from it and introduced Goldicut's daughter, which is

485
00:24:59.099 --> 00:25:01.920
just ickier than any queer.

486
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:03.599
Yeah, she's a young girl.

487
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.259
And he says we could have done better.

488
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.599
He looked straight down the cameras, we should have done better.

489
00:25:09.900 --> 00:25:13.680
Now, can I just, and that's, that's, sorry, go on.

490
00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:18.000
Just very quickly, we had the shuttle landing at the Maktala Caves

491
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.319
visitors centre there.

492
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.660
Can I say, I missed the old Matt painting zone.

493
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:25.140
Sorry.

494
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:31.920
Well, see, that's the other thing too, is that this show is really

495
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:33.960
committed to putting beautiful things on screen.

496
00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:37.619
And so here we're padding past these little fish.

497
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:39.900
The flying fish and the fish flies.

498
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.500
It's amazing.

499
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.140
I wanted to mention the robots.

500
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.940
So we're going about in the earliest.

501
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.079
You're the ones that repair things.

502
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.180
Such a lovely...

503
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.039
Oh my god, Nathan, look at these.

504
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:53.099
Now, they've been transported straight out of 90s trekking their

505
00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:53.880
robes, haven't they?

506
00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:56.279
And that's the other thing too.

507
00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:00.720
This version of Star Trek isn't a shamed of being Star Trek and it

508
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.740
will do cheesy things like this, these people in their robes, God

509
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:05.339
bless them.

510
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:09.240
And a planet of like 10 people, you know.

511
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:13.619
Do you remember in the last episode, the 2nd to last episode of

512
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:17.940
Picard, when it went down to the like the Android tublicate. it

513
00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:19.319
was so fucking cheesy.

514
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.859
I was like, I feel like I'm watching episode CNG again.

515
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:25.619
It was like watching insurrection, wasn't it?

516
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.480
And this, this is basically equilibrium.

517
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:34.319
Like, yeah, people in ridiculous robes, slightly theatrical

518
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.680
performances, you know, it's, um, 0 my god, it's so comforting

519
00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:37.980
love it.

520
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.380
And the other thing here too.

521
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:45.299
Is that they are not unified either.

522
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.140
We have the usual thing where we're down on the planet and there

523
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:50.460
are 2 political factions.

524
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:56.039
So you have this guy whose name I can't remember.

525
00:26:56.099 --> 00:26:58.980
Voss, I think he was the one who came on board the ship as a

526
00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:00.059
hologram at the beginning.

527
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.740
And then we have Z, who is the good guy in the red robe.

528
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:09.240
And then we have, you know, between them, Pav or whatever her name

529
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:10.259
is, the leader.

530
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.059
She is really good.

531
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.240
I think she's probably a well-known actor who we don't know, but

532
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:16.500
she's very familiar.

533
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.380
Who knows how the spots have got a little subtler.

534
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:22.019
It used to be a bit more dramatic, didn't they, right?

535
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.019
No, what, we a 1000 years in the future?

536
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:26.700
1000 years, 900 something.

537
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:27.000
Yeah.

538
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:28.859
Well, I think they've, you know.

539
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:34.680
I think the makeup is, you know, more expensive. these overdone

540
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:35.039
robes.

541
00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:35.519
I'm sorry.

542
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.319
But so you've got these political factions and they come together

543
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:41.819
at the end as well.

544
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.579
You know, the thing is...

545
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:46.799
You're unifying all the themes here in this episode.

546
00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:48.599
Well, that's the other thing.

547
00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:51.599
And some people found this difficult to take in series one of

548
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:55.319
discovery, which is that it seemed to not really have that

549
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.140
Starfleet ideal.

550
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.079
And because it was a time of war, it was all about, you know, what

551
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:06.539
compromises we need to make to our ideals to to kind of prosecute

552
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:06.960
this war.

553
00:28:07.019 --> 00:28:10.619
Sorry, but you sounds like you're describing DS9 to me there, but

554
00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:10.859
go.

555
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:13.319
Yeah, yeah. and then they go to the mirror universe and it's like

556
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:14.220
Trump world.

557
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:21.779
And now this show is rebuilding the Federation out of isolationist

558
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:26.099
angry isolationist groups, Earth last week was that, like Earth

559
00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:27.000
had become that.

560
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:29.339
Do you know, I'm surprised.

561
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:32.819
You know, the whole idea of the burn and the Federation, you know

562
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:33.839
just all being destroyed.

563
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:37.259
I mean, I thought fans would absolutely push against that.

564
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:39.960
And people, basically on the whole, went with it.

565
00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:43.619
Which I was quite surprised about it. because it was exciting.

566
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.559
Star Trek was, it was unknowable again.

567
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.559
It's enticing, I think, to not know.

568
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:58.680
It is this thing where, where we've kind of, um, uh, we're in the

569
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.119
ruins of the Federation.

570
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:04.319
And, and Picard has the same thing too, where, you know, a big

571
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.319
disaster has happened on Mars and the earth has become

572
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:08.519
isolationist as well.

573
00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:10.799
Can I stop you there for a 2nd though?

574
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:15.000
I feel like Picard was at least Discovery has some optimism about

575
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:15.240
it.

576
00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:19.259
That Picard was so cynical. about everything.

577
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:21.480
I mean, it couldn't have been more different from the next

578
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:22.440
generation, could it?

579
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:23.579
in terms of tone.

580
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.660
I got halfway through that season and they were gouging out old

581
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:30.960
characters eyeballs and all sorts and I was going, what is going

582
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.200
on?

583
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:31.680
The stuff.

584
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:32.819
Star Trek, you know?

585
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:39.000
But I think, you know, just now after 4 years of Trump and and, you

586
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:45.000
know, Brexit and in a world that isn't the optimistic place that

587
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.799
it seemed in the 90s maybe with, you know, um...

588
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:51.960
You don't think that whole analogy for that, do you?

589
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:55.380
building, you know, making America great again.

590
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.539
Now Trump's gone, build rebuilding the Federation.

591
00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:58.859
Yeah, absolutely I do.

592
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:00.059
Yep. absolutely.

593
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:01.079
Yeah.

594
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:05.039
That that's why Star Trek looks like this now.

595
00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:06.599
Well, actually, do you know what?

596
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:10.140
And there's often a case that the politics of the time informs

597
00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:15.720
such a look at after 9-11 and then they did the end of Enterprise

598
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.460
Series 2 at that massive terror attack.

599
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.900
Yeah, and then series 3 was was, you know, post 9-11, sort of

600
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:22.500
paranoia.

601
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:23.940
Yeah, absolutely.

602
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:27.900
Oh, so Ruby, it's so cute.

603
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.039
Like, I love the fact that he can't quite grasp what's wrong, but

604
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:33.299
he wants to know how he can help.

605
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.160
You know, he's such a thoughtful character.

606
00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:36.960
And the actor is really strong.

607
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:42.900
So this is Duck Jones who just wears a lot of prosthetics in

608
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:44.460
everything that he does just about.

609
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:49.740
And, you know, he was the main gentleman in hush in Buffy.

610
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:51.779
Was he really?

611
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:52.440
Yeah, yeah.

612
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:55.559
He's responsible for many of my onlineers, you know.

613
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:56.339
Yeah, yeah.

614
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.700
And, you know, like he was the guy in the in the fish suit in

615
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:02.460
shape of water, Oscar winning shape of water.

616
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:07.019
I didn't think much of him. initially.

617
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:09.660
They painted him out to be quiet.

618
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:11.700
Not unlikeable, but a bit cold.

619
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.759
And something changed over the 3 seasons.

620
00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:18.900
And at this point here, he's like, I know he's not the captain at

621
00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:20.700
the end of the season and I'm quite sad about that.

622
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.900
You said to me that you thought he was the best Star Trek captain

623
00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:25.619
there'd ever been.

624
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:31.559
I think that the reason that I really like him as captain is that

625
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:36.839
he isn't the normal kind of, you know, like alpha male leader that

626
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.279
even Janeway is.

627
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:41.819
You know, Janeway is very hands-on hips and muscular threats and

628
00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:42.059
stuff.

629
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:46.440
He's much more unsure of himself and he's much he's much more

630
00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:53.579
likely to operate. through praise and kindness and empathy.

631
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.940
And I really, really like that.

632
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:01.980
He's so kind and and he's got this sort of gentle voice and

633
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:04.680
there's this weird smile he does through the prosthetics.

634
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:06.240
I think he's magnificent.

635
00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:11.279
It's just a moment here to just reflect on how Star Trek Caves

636
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:12.420
have improved over time.

637
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.859
The beautiful like fairy lights all about them, but these pools

638
00:32:16.859 --> 00:32:19.319
look very similar to the ones in equilibrium.

639
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:21.420
I mean, it does look more visually interesting.

640
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.660
But he says at the beginning of the scene, you know, the shrine of

641
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:26.220
Kakakoola or something like that.

642
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.140
Some dreadful Star Trek name.

643
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.319
A very nice stroke.

644
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.900
It was in DS9.

645
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.079
You know, we found the city of Bahalla. basically like that.

646
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:45.359
And she gets into the pool in a minute. to regress into the

647
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:46.559
memories, doesn't she?

648
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:50.400
to, you know, to find. and that absolutely happens in equilibrium

649
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:50.700
as well.

650
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:51.839
Jazia goes into the pool.

651
00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:57.480
I find her memories of that previous host, the serial killer who

652
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.299
happens to be recast in series 7, so we didn't have a clue that

653
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:01.019
was when he came along.

654
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:01.980
Ah okay.

655
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:03.720
The war death.

656
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:05.279
Oh, here's the dinner scene.

657
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:06.660
This is terrific, this scene.

658
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:13.619
And so I am not quite sure why you invite, um, Jojo there

659
00:33:13.619 --> 00:33:14.400
except...

660
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.140
Because she's the funniest one around the table.

661
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:17.400
So great.

662
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:19.920
Everyone's going, yes, I said, yes.

663
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:22.440
I said, yes. she said, well, I didn't say yes, but I'm here

664
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:22.740
anyway.

665
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:27.000
Well, no, she starts eating while he's giving the speech, like

666
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.539
this, like she spears a crab claw or something.

667
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:33.480
Let's not even pretend she ain't the best thing about this show.

668
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:40.079
She is magnificent that cousin Michelle, who comes from Malaysia

669
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:41.640
and shares her last name with my husband.

670
00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:46.619
So that's cousin Michelle, who comes to all our family dues and

671
00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:48.539
kicks middle-aged man in the head.

672
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.099
She's fantastic.

673
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:52.019
She's amazing.

674
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.559
I just like that everyone else is, you know, very Starfleet and

675
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:57.059
she's just so...

676
00:33:57.059 --> 00:34:00.839
She pushes against all the normal cliches, doesn't she?

677
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:04.259
For example, we talked about in the previous episode about, you

678
00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:06.900
know, that awful old cliche about where they're saying, oh, you've

679
00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:08.340
got a choice whether to go to war or not.

680
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.920
She'd absolutely be the one person go, well, I'm not.

681
00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:11.340
I off.

682
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

683
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.119
Yeah, yeah.

684
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:20.460
What happened in this scene, the way this is directed in a way

685
00:34:20.460 --> 00:34:22.559
where it feels like, oh, you know, he's got them all around the

686
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:22.739
table.

687
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.960
They're all sharing their experiences, they're all laughing.

688
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:30.000
It's really beautifully done and you lean into the lovelyliness of

689
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:30.179
it.

690
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:36.059
And then it twists, the, the, the, the mood twists very dramatic.

691
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.739
I kind of recoiled from the scene.

692
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.420
It was it was so well done.

693
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:44.639
There's a little bit of a thing where the kind of arc, like the

694
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.559
reversals and things, mirror the reversals in this other scene

695
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:50.579
that we can't do.

696
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:53.579
And like the 1st time we go to the dinner party, we have a cross

697
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:57.119
fade from the caves to the dinner party as if they're part of the

698
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:58.739
same sort of thing that's happening.

699
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:03.239
And I think that's like that's just sort of terribly well done and

700
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.099
like a sort of subtle and clever choice.

701
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:08.340
You see this man here attending the symbian pools.

702
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:09.119
Yeah.

703
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:13.199
I would just like to point out that the same character in the DS9

704
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.880
episode equilibrium was much funnier.

705
00:35:14.940 --> 00:35:18.239
He was one of those, he was one of those mad old eccentrics, you

706
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:19.980
know, that hangs out. been there for centuries.

707
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:20.940
It was really funny.

708
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:23.820
But you can't have everything.

709
00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:25.440
No.

710
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:28.559
Well, you've got you've got cousin Michelle being funny in the

711
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:29.099
other plot.

712
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.039
Do you know what?

713
00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.440
When they all start getting nasty, rich, upper.

714
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:35.400
She's smiling.

715
00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:36.059
Yeah.

716
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.860
She loves it.

717
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.019
Twisting the knife in a bit, you know?

718
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.079
I think she starts, you know, like baiting them a little bit.

719
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.579
Yeah.

720
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.139
Yeah, she's great.

721
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:47.400
Has she left the show now?

722
00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:48.420
Yeah.

723
00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:54.360
So there's talk of a section 31 show in development with her in

724
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:54.539
it.

725
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.380
I'll just say that is a completely DS9 base show.

726
00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:59.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

727
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.159
No, they love Deep Face and I on this show.

728
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:06.059
Look at these two.

729
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:07.320
Yeah.

730
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:12.059
Yeah, I think the 2 of them bond really well on the trip down to

731
00:36:12.059 --> 00:36:14.940
the shuttle and just remember how early this is.

732
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.420
You know, we had last week going to Earth and now we've got

733
00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:22.619
episode 4 and the 2 of them sort of bond really well.

734
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.920
I think, I think sending her was a good decision.

735
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:28.559
I mean, you needed to give Michael something to do and you don't

736
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:31.139
want to see her bitching with everyone around the dinner table.

737
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:36.599
When I rewatched this, I said to you that this was, for me, this

738
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:43.380
felt like, um, the most DS9, Discovery episode because it was so

739
00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:44.519
character focussed.

740
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:46.800
Now, I know there is a lot of character focus in discovery, but

741
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.000
it's usually character focus and big weighty arcs as well and lots

742
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:51.900
of action, you know?

743
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.380
Whereas DS9 will have lots of character focussed episodes like

744
00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:55.800
this.

745
00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:59.820
The fact that it was a little bit more sedate, you know, the pace

746
00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:01.079
of the episode is a bit slower.

747
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.280
Um, and of course it's set on trill as well.

748
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:09.960
So no one, I mean, for me, I think this is this is like a top 5

749
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:11.460
discovery. this episode.

750
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:12.900
Oh, I think so too.

751
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.039
I think easily.

752
00:37:14.099 --> 00:37:16.980
It's a little bit hard to pick out because of the serialised

753
00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:20.159
storytelling and I find it hard sometimes to know which episode

754
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:20.940
we're talking about.

755
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.159
You can't highlight something.

756
00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:25.380
You remember the one where they go back to Saru's home planet?

757
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.880
That's extraordinary.

758
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:27.659
Yep.

759
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:31.139
And the time loop one in series one is pretty incredible.

760
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:32.760
Oh, the Harry Mud one.

761
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.480
Yeah, yeah.

762
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:35.579
Yeah, that was really good.

763
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:36.000
Yeah.

764
00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:37.199
Oh, here we go.

765
00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.960
Oh, we're all getting on.

766
00:37:40.019 --> 00:37:41.940
Yeah, no, Reese gets to smile.

767
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:42.780
That's all he gets to do.

768
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.860
He doesn't get any dialogue.

769
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.639
He's Joe. She gets to say something to Kayla. she's got a line or

770
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:47.820
two.

771
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.219
Honestly, God, I swear she just keeps admitting.

772
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.159
She's a complete filth bag and she froze up a lot and she's drunk

773
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:53.639
a lot.

774
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:55.019
Yeah, she's wonderful.

775
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:55.920
I think she's great.

776
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:59.340
She has a great line when she comes in afterwards to speak to Saru

777
00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:01.019
in what I think is a great scene.

778
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.559
So this is Kayla losing her shit publicly at the dinner table.

779
00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:07.199
There's always someone like this at a party.

780
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:10.019
I'm telling, you know, shitting on everyone else's good time.

781
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:15.119
And this was, this has been right from episode two.

782
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:18.900
I know that's not a long arc, but she was clearly hugely disturbed

783
00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:20.639
by the jump into the future.

784
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:25.199
And people were wondering whether, you know, her implant was

785
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.300
malfunctioning or what the plot would be.

786
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.079
And I think I remember thinking, I hope it's not space reasons.

787
00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:35.280
I hope she's not, you know, inhabited by an alien entity or

788
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:35.639
something.

789
00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:39.539
I hope she's just really stressed and upset and that's where they

790
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:39.780
went.

791
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.480
And this is like the in series three.

792
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:47.699
This is like the 1st time she's been given any kind of

793
00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:49.500
sophisticated characterisation.

794
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:52.139
Thank God because the actress is really good.

795
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:53.639
Yeah, yeah.

796
00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:55.559
Yeah, but you know, she starts...

797
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:57.719
She must have thought in series one, this is a thankless part.

798
00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.880
I'm just on the bridge, you know, doing my bit.

799
00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:00.300
Yeah.

800
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.619
Well, she's a minor role.

801
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:05.400
Like they're virtually scenery, the bridge crew in series one

802
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.460
because they wanted it not to be a Star Trek show, I think.

803
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:10.019
You wonder why I was confused.

804
00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:11.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

805
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.460
No, it took me forever. telling me that was the point.

806
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:15.239
That was the point.

807
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:16.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

808
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:19.679
Because Michael wasn't a member of the bridge crew.

809
00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:23.280
She said that act like assholes.

810
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:23.579
Yeah.

811
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:28.800
She says fuck in series one, but now Star Trek won't say fuck.

812
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.320
No, I do.

813
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:38.340
No, because everyone in 90s strike has such a massive stick up

814
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:40.260
their ass. you know, like...

815
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:40.920
Excuse me.

816
00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:42.960
That's where I swears all the time.

817
00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:44.519
There's one episode where I can...

818
00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:45.000
Bl bloody.

819
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:48.539
That's just because Americans don't know what that means.

820
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:53.219
Did you ever see the one episode where they snuck into swear words

821
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:55.679
but completely under the radar?

822
00:39:55.739 --> 00:39:56.699
Oh really?

823
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.400
It's the Grand Nagas in the 2nd to last episode.

824
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:03.119
And there's like the rain is causing all this fuzzy interference

825
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.579
and it just goes, what a fucking mess.

826
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.139
They go.

827
00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:11.940
But if you watch the subtitles. swear words.

828
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.139
Brilliant.

829
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.079
Ah, here we go.

830
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:16.920
Yeah.

831
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:20.159
So, you know, at the same time as the Denny dinner party goes to

832
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:23.820
hell, this goes to hell, you know, like this plot goes to hell at

833
00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:26.039
the same, you know, at the same moment in the episode.

834
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.460
And then this very, very quickly.

835
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:35.760
And it is because because of Michael's concern for Adira that

836
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.139
they're won over, isn't it?

837
00:40:37.500 --> 00:40:39.059
Absolutely.

838
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:42.719
And I guess Z saying that she's all that we have.

839
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:47.159
I really like I'm kind of jumping down a little bit.

840
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:50.760
I really like the parallel with equilibrium here, where both

841
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:56.460
episodes reveal a massive twist that fundamentally could change

842
00:40:56.460 --> 00:40:57.659
trail society.

843
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:02.400
In equilibrium, it's that far more trio, can take symbience than

844
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:06.900
it's known, and that whole initiate program is irrelevant, but

845
00:41:06.900 --> 00:41:09.539
they put put people through it just to get the best, the best to

846
00:41:09.539 --> 00:41:09.900
have them.

847
00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:13.800
And in this one, it's that other species, isn't it?

848
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:16.260
It can take the trio symbians.

849
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:17.159
Yeah.

850
00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:18.780
So Riker had one once.

851
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.980
But you know how it works.

852
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:21.659
It's your favourite plot resolution.

853
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:29.519
The reason that she can take the trill is because she and Gray are

854
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:36.840
in love and Gray trusts her with his life and eventually he does

855
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:38.579
have to trust her with his life.

856
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.920
Oh, he's the get out moment.

857
00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:45.539
Um, so this is the other thing that, that this version of Star

858
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:50.039
Trek does, that 90s straight doesn't do, which is this commitment

859
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:53.099
to putting just weird and incomprehensible things on screen.

860
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:57.780
But let's not forget the, you know, the level of technology they

861
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:02.280
have to work with now to realise this is a completely different

862
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.019
league to what they have.

863
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:08.940
I think in 90s trek, like we were impressed at the time, but there

864
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:12.840
is a very sort of staid and limited visual grammar, I think.

865
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:15.539
And I think this is controversial.

866
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.739
Series one and 2 of Star Trek The Next Generation looks shitty and

867
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:21.059
cheap in lots of ways.

868
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.579
It looks worse than the original series sometimes.

869
00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:27.420
Some of those planetary, you know, studio backdrops.

870
00:42:27.539 --> 00:42:29.219
Yeah, shockingly bad.

871
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:33.300
But it does do weirder looking things than Star Trek does, like

872
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:36.659
Star Trek sort of settles down and looks generally sensible, but

873
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:37.860
is not ambitious.

874
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:42.840
And so here, like, it's clear that these are memories because it's

875
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.719
like, synapses, isn't it?

876
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:47.699
It's like, you know, like, yeah.

877
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:52.980
The, and and physical connection, like memory and connection, again

878
00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:54.119
you know, made into a thing.

879
00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:57.179
And for me, I would rather you know me.

880
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:58.800
I can't bear the technobabble.

881
00:42:58.860 --> 00:43:00.539
I can't bear really the technology.

882
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:01.500
I'm not interested in it.

883
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:03.360
I'd rather have this weird stuff going on.

884
00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:06.179
I mean, remember an episode in series one where they had that

885
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:07.079
tardigrade?

886
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.239
Power in the strip.

887
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.739
And I was like, well, I can get going that.

888
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.780
That's a great big monster that's powering the ship.

889
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.420
I can, you know, start going on about warp calls and they thought

890
00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:16.320
no, I'll fall asleep.

891
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:16.679
Sorry.

892
00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:19.079
Yeah, no, and that was super weird too.

893
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:22.260
This sort of, yeah, unusual visuals.

894
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:25.139
It's far more appealing to me than hearing, you know, Julie La

895
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:25.559
Forge.

896
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.139
Batter off a load of technobabble about what's happening with

897
00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:28.260
her.

898
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:29.099
Yeah.

899
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:33.239
Yeah, and I think this is amazingly interestingly directed as

900
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:33.480
well.

901
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:37.079
You know, the way that we look across from this space into things

902
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:41.519
in her memories and and the fact that these are not flashbacks at

903
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:41.880
all.

904
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:43.380
These aren't flashbacks.

905
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:44.159
These are memories.

906
00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:45.179
This is happening now.

907
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:46.679
She's remembering it now.

908
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:49.739
And it's shot in a nonnaturalistic way.

909
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:53.880
It is, but this is a very gentle episode of Star Trek.

910
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:58.440
And the visuals are very lovely as well.

911
00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:01.260
You know, it doesn't, it doesn't push that out of that tone, which

912
00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:01.980
I went.

913
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:02.579
Oh my word.

914
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:02.940
Okay.

915
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:07.500
So we need to talk about this actor here. is terrific.

916
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:12.480
So this is Ian Alexander, and he has done roles.

917
00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:13.199
He's very young.

918
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:14.099
Both of them are very young.

919
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.400
I think, um, I think Blue is older than he is.

920
00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:21.780
I think that he, I think he's amazing.

921
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:25.619
He has this juice, so vanity.

922
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:32.039
This beautiful boy and he's so serene and...

923
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:37.320
I often struggle with, um, believing Star Trek romances.

924
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:38.880
Like, I like going...

925
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.920
I think of another trio romance with Beverly Crusher and, you know

926
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.659
write-up when he had to figure it out.

927
00:44:45.659 --> 00:44:47.820
You're like going, oh, God, what's this nonsense?

928
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:48.960
I don't believe this at all.

929
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:50.280
These two.

930
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:55.440
And the romantic scenes that are coming up are effortlessly

931
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:56.039
believable.

932
00:44:56.099 --> 00:44:57.840
Oh, well, look at the smile.

933
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.960
He's smiling so beautiful.

934
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:03.000
Just so great.

935
00:45:03.059 --> 00:45:06.059
And, you know, I think I'm in love, Nathan.

936
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:12.360
Well, he's a little bit young for me, but he is like, it's these

937
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:12.960
kids.

938
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.900
And that's the other thing, you know, like the 2 sort of

939
00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:18.840
transactors are young people.

940
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:23.880
And I think there's a sweetness to that, you know, like that, that

941
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.460
that there's a queer family made out of it.

942
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:32.699
We've got the 2 gay men, you know, that's a conception of, I don't

943
00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:32.880
know.

944
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:38.039
I just kind of think that you've got 2 gay men, they're 2 gay dads

945
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.500
and the 2 kids, really.

946
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:45.119
And there's a real sweetness to that after just such a desert of

947
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:46.320
representation over the years.

948
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.920
Is there a pushback against that, asshole?

949
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:51.659
know No, I don't know either.

950
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.780
Like, you know, like, with like, um, Jenny Whitaker's Doctor Who

951
00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:56.280
there's like this whole, you know, it's too woke.

952
00:45:56.340 --> 00:45:58.380
Oh, yes, there is that.

953
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:02.400
I'm almost willing to believe in Star Trek fandom that there's

954
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:03.059
some of that going on.

955
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:03.840
Oh, for sure.

956
00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:06.780
Even before Grey and Adira came along, everyone hated the fact

957
00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:09.539
that there was a black woman who was the main character, you know

958
00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:13.380
like there was that, it's the same with Star Wars and Ray, you

959
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:14.099
know.

960
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:15.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

961
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:18.420
Well, the fella, the Stormtrooper, was supposed to have a gay

962
00:46:18.420 --> 00:46:19.380
romance, wasn't he?

963
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.280
And then they pushed against that.

964
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:21.300
Yeah, yeah.

965
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.900
There was that big no homo moment in the rise of sky.

966
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.079
These moments here where they're sharing like the interests and

967
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.960
laughing about it and gently mocking each other.

968
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:34.320
Like, I'm sorry, this is every romance I've ever had right here.

969
00:46:35.340 --> 00:46:40.559
Just the cello, the way the direction foregrounds the cello.

970
00:46:40.619 --> 00:46:42.840
Look at the lighting as well.

971
00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:43.440
Sorry, now.

972
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:43.860
Come on.

973
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.320
You and your dramatic lighting, that's very dramatic.

974
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:51.780
But this show does lighting much, much better than 90 Streke ever

975
00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:52.019
did.

976
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:59.159
And it is, you know, lighting coming in through windows and and

977
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:03.059
bits of the frame being lit, not, you know, Picard sitting alone

978
00:47:03.059 --> 00:47:06.300
in the dark room in yesterday's enterprise, wondering where his

979
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:07.500
fucking pen went.

980
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:12.179
You know, like, like this, the lighting here is beautiful and

981
00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:14.460
these shots are interesting, you know?

982
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.519
I mean, it's like coming in for a window so that, you know, they're

983
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.139
showing you the sorts that scene we had in yesterday's

984
00:47:19.139 --> 00:47:19.559
Enterprise.

985
00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:21.659
It was just like, well, why the hell doesn't he turn the lights

986
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:21.900
on?

987
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.840
Like, there's no reason for it to be done like this.

988
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:29.639
She just said there, um, I could never do what you did.

989
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:31.980
And the response was bullshit.

990
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:32.519
Yeah.

991
00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:33.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

992
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:34.800
Now, that's a real relationship.

993
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:38.280
You know, goats, remember that dreadful relationship between Queen

994
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:43.019
Armadillo and Anakin Skywalker and he's like, and I find you're

995
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:43.800
intoxicating.

996
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:48.239
Things have moved on a lot in science fiction romances, you know.

997
00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:49.980
Oh look at this.

998
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:51.420
Bless them.

999
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:53.219
These sweet kids.

1000
00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:54.059
Do you know what?

1001
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:55.320
This is the worst episode for you and me.

1002
00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:57.659
We're both a pair of hugest romantics.

1003
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:01.139
Oh.

1004
00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:03.119
What's in the boss?

1005
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:09.599
The box thing is just heartbreakingly beautiful and terribly sad

1006
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:10.380
as well.

1007
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:16.199
And this too, where Adira accuses Michael of wanting this to work

1008
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:20.760
because it's important to the Federation.

1009
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:26.579
And she doesn't deny it because it's the same thing.

1010
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:28.559
It's the connection.

1011
00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:31.980
It's her belonging somewhere.

1012
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:34.739
None of them have a past either.

1013
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:35.940
She doesn't have a past.

1014
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.059
The way she recovers her past is this.

1015
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.780
The way that they find a way to belong in a world where everyone

1016
00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:46.320
they knows. everyone they know is dead.

1017
00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:48.539
You know, he's finding the Federation.

1018
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.159
All of its linked.

1019
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.480
Sorry, I'm just I'm enjoying the visuals now.

1020
00:48:54.539 --> 00:48:55.860
Well, the visuals are so great.

1021
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:57.719
So good.

1022
00:48:57.780 --> 00:49:00.420
I mean, I mean, we're watching this with the sound down.

1023
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.059
I can still, I can understand what's going on.

1024
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:05.820
This is well directed enough that I don't need the words, you

1025
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:06.000
know?

1026
00:49:06.059 --> 00:49:08.820
Oh, no, I have the subtitles on even when I...

1027
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.960
I mean, I do too.

1028
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:10.679
Because I'm old.

1029
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:13.440
So this is what's in the box.

1030
00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:18.480
She's done this sort of needlework. thing that represents their

1031
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:20.219
relationship, their time together.

1032
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:24.599
You know, they're 2 kids on a starship that have found one another

1033
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:29.039
and have fallen in love and they're, you know, these silly

1034
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:30.119
memories that they have.

1035
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:32.760
And look what happens to that blanket in a minute.

1036
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:35.039
Look at what happens to it.

1037
00:49:35.099 --> 00:49:36.360
It's incredible.

1038
00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:40.440
Oh, it's just the chemistry between them that sold me when I was

1039
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:40.920
watching this.

1040
00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:42.360
Yeah, yeah.

1041
00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:43.079
Yeah.

1042
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:46.619
I was like, are these actors in a relationship?

1043
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.840
Oh, the little hug.

1044
00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:52.440
Oh, God.

1045
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:54.360
My word.

1046
00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:58.679
Genesis a world apart from that scene between Tom and B'Elana in

1047
00:49:58.679 --> 00:49:59.579
lineage, isn't it?

1048
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:01.320
I was thinking...

1049
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:05.519
Oh, oh, that scene where they're smiling and you see the asteroid

1050
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.260
coming towards them through the window.

1051
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:11.820
And we already know that Gray is dead because she has the symbient

1052
00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:12.059
right?

1053
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:13.800
We saw him getting the symbient.

1054
00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:16.440
But Adira has this ambient at the moment.

1055
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:20.940
And so we know going in when we see Gray get the thing that he's

1056
00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:22.980
dead and that that's what she's been avoiding.

1057
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:30.239
And this is a good moment to say, because I think you're going to

1058
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:31.260
hold it together in this watch.

1059
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:36.539
But I know I know for a fact in your previous watches, um, you

1060
00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:37.920
were in tears watching us, wasn't you?

1061
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:38.699
it moves you to tears.

1062
00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:42.420
Yeah, both times that I watched it in preparation for this, I was

1063
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:44.219
crying from before this moment.

1064
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:51.179
So from pretty much the moment that we 1st see gray, like, and it

1065
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:55.619
is just the sweetness of these, like young people in love, that's

1066
00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:59.760
adorable, and they're so sweet together, and we know what's

1067
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:00.840
coming.

1068
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:09.360
She, she's wrapping him in the blanket and it gets covered in his

1069
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:15.480
blood and, and the fact that it's that relationship that saves him

1070
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:21.059
you know, that thing where, where, I trust you with my life, you

1071
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:23.579
know, man, it's so good.

1072
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:25.500
I so good.

1073
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.300
I brought up the tears for a reason, and that is because one of

1074
00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:33.599
the many things, and you'll get to know us as we do this podcast

1075
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:37.800
that Nathan Bottomley has done for me since I've known him, because

1076
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:42.239
I refuse to cry at TV before. was to say, you know what?

1077
00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:42.780
It's okay.

1078
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:43.619
Let yourself go.

1079
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:44.039
Cry.

1080
00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:45.000
Enjoy TV.

1081
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:48.059
Like, And this is very moving.

1082
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:49.860
Yeah, I think it is too.

1083
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:51.780
And there are other things at the end of it too.

1084
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:55.679
It isn't just the death of gray and the sweetness of their

1085
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:56.400
relationship.

1086
00:51:56.460 --> 00:51:59.280
There are other things coming up, which I didn't tell you about

1087
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.440
that I cry cried about as well.

1088
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:07.019
So this, oh, and this, the music at this moment.

1089
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.000
So this is the big moment when, you know, she now has her memories

1090
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:16.920
back and she meets the circle, like all of the previous hosts and

1091
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:19.619
the triumphant music at their appearance.

1092
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:23.340
A little bit more diverse than Jadzia's hosts, aren't they?

1093
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:27.900
Well, but in, like, they kind of did this in DS9, obviously not

1094
00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:31.920
within a single scene, they had the scene where every host had to

1095
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.519
go into one of the regulars and they were all like, no, no, no.

1096
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:36.539
It was really well done.

1097
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:37.440
I remember it.

1098
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:40.920
It gave them all a chance to basically ham it up for an episode

1099
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:41.280
you know?

1100
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:43.920
Like, what's his name?

1101
00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:47.519
Renee, I played Curzon.

1102
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:48.659
Of course he did.

1103
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:56.219
And this, you know, it shows though, doesn't it?

1104
00:52:56.280 --> 00:53:00.659
It shows that the premise of the trill still has legs in modern

1105
00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:01.199
day television.

1106
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:02.519
Yeah.

1107
00:53:02.579 --> 00:53:05.340
Yeah, and they can do something slightly different with it this

1108
00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:05.699
time.

1109
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.440
Like this...

1110
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:14.639
You know, Admiral Tal is welcome her into the circle, like, and

1111
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:18.900
but he's also been calling the crew of the Discovery to the

1112
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:20.639
Federation as well, you know.

1113
00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:25.920
So neat to have like such an affecting character drama that pushes

1114
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.920
the arc on. very gently, you know?

1115
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:34.139
Trust me, it's not often as neat as this in this show.

1116
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:38.099
I think that this is like, I do think that this is an extremely

1117
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:40.199
good episode of discovery.

1118
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:45.960
I don't think discovery slows down like this enough.

1119
00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:48.300
I think it's very frenetic, this show.

1120
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:50.219
Maybe.

1121
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:54.119
Well, it wants to be modern and modern TV is set pieces.

1122
00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:57.599
It's it's excitement, you know, it's it's keep people interested

1123
00:53:57.599 --> 00:53:58.800
with new things coming along.

1124
00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:03.780
I think this is still more talky than most modern TV perhaps.

1125
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:04.679
Yeah.

1126
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:06.719
I think that's why I like it.

1127
00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:07.619
Yeah.

1128
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:10.380
But I mean, I think discovery generally, there's a lot of kind of

1129
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:13.019
people talking about their feelings and speech of mine and stuff

1130
00:54:13.019 --> 00:54:13.320
like that.

1131
00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:14.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1132
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:19.440
It's still Star Trek, but you know, it just, it's, it is a bit

1133
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:25.079
less stagey because they can afford to just not spend, you know

1134
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:27.000
most of each episode just.

1135
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:29.579
Yeah, yeah, they're not just in standing sets talking to one

1136
00:54:29.579 --> 00:54:30.420
another, you know.

1137
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:35.159
But like what used to happen in Voyager. what happened towards the

1138
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:42.599
end of 90s trek into the 2000s is that you would have like um, like

1139
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:46.079
talkie episodes and they were just shoving an action set pieces

1140
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:48.599
every week because that was expected to have the action.

1141
00:54:48.659 --> 00:54:52.380
I think I think there's a balance now between action and talk.

1142
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:53.820
Yeah.

1143
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:57.840
Well, see, I love this moment too, where originally she couldn't

1144
00:54:57.840 --> 00:54:58.679
give her names.

1145
00:54:58.739 --> 00:55:01.860
She couldn't give her names and then she gives her names, you know

1146
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:03.119
lovely.

1147
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:06.840
Look at the performers as well, where she's kind of saying, I am a

1148
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:07.500
deer at Tao.

1149
00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:08.699
Yep.

1150
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:13.199
And then bad, you know, now we have the political reunification of

1151
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:17.340
the trill and, you know, one... it's all a bit quick, isn't it?

1152
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:20.519
Yeah, that's very trek as well, though, isn't it?

1153
00:55:20.579 --> 00:55:22.800
Oh, of course, of course.

1154
00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:26.400
But the inciting incident is fairly sort of, you know.

1155
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:30.780
Well, what I really like is that the woman whose name I've

1156
00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:35.039
forgotten, the one in charge says, you know, um, like come back

1157
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.320
and look us up in the future.

1158
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.820
Yeah, so I'm hoping we go back here.

1159
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.079
Yeah.

1160
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:41.579
Yeah, I hope so too.

1161
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:46.800
But it is... super pleased that she went back to Discovery.

1162
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:49.440
Because when I 1st watched this, I was like, oh, no, this lovely

1163
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:49.739
character.

1164
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.840
They're gonna write her out and she's so lovely.

1165
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.619
And what they did completely surprised me then going forward.

1166
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:57.119
I think the 2 characters.

1167
00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:58.260
Yeah. wonderful.

1168
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.820
That introduction is so well done as well.

1169
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:03.900
So good.

1170
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:09.179
Is it played like, I can't remember.

1171
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:11.940
Is it played like sinister at all, like, like...

1172
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:13.679
No, no, no, it's beautiful.

1173
00:56:13.739 --> 00:56:15.420
It is really beautiful.

1174
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:21.000
So it's just like in her head that having a relationship.

1175
00:56:21.059 --> 00:56:22.559
Like, is that how it's played?

1176
00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:23.820
like in the future episodes.

1177
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.599
Because there's the 2 of them talking, isn't there, in the mess or

1178
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:27.960
things like that?

1179
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:31.920
They have a fight and and Gray doesn't show up for a while and

1180
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:33.300
Adira wonders where he is.

1181
00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:41.340
And Gray, Adira tells, um, I think Hugh and Paul or maybe just

1182
00:56:41.340 --> 00:56:42.840
maybe just Hugh.

1183
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:46.679
I can't remember exactly, tells one of them at least about Gray.

1184
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:50.340
Yeah, no, no, Paul and you, I think, both know about Gray.

1185
00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:52.559
Yeah, yeah.

1186
00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:55.079
And then I won't tell you what happens because you haven't seen

1187
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:55.500
the finale.

1188
00:56:55.619 --> 00:56:56.460
Okay.

1189
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:57.719
I'll watch it.

1190
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:02.760
There's telly coming in and given the advice that he needs.

1191
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:07.679
Well, and this is nice as well, because Tilly is our normal

1192
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:08.219
person.

1193
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:11.519
I love how she comes in and says at my place that's just Tuesday

1194
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:12.179
night.

1195
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:17.760
You know, that's why we do this every day. captain at some point.

1196
00:57:18.059 --> 00:57:20.219
No, sort of.

1197
00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.739
There's a sort of Captain Tilly thing happening.

1198
00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:28.199
She's she's a captain in the mirror universe and has to pretend to

1199
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:31.380
be Captain Tilly in the mirror universe.

1200
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:34.380
Oh, I remember, she's in a ridiculous costume.

1201
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:36.239
Oh, yeah, with the tits out and stuff.

1202
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.619
Tubing it up terribly.

1203
00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:38.460
Yeah, yeah, wonderful.

1204
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:39.780
They always do in the mirror.

1205
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.199
Yeah.

1206
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:40.619
Yeah.

1207
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:43.920
But this is really nice as well.

1208
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:47.039
Paul is made to apologise because he was a bit of a prick.

1209
00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:49.320
And she kind of makes him apologise.

1210
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:55.260
I don't know how she gives Saru advice.

1211
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:56.400
You know, he's the captain.

1212
00:57:56.519 --> 00:58:02.039
And this is the, you know, it's hard to imagine, you know, that

1213
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:05.760
happening in any other show. you know, like, but she does it by

1214
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:06.840
just having a conversation.

1215
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.679
What would happen in 90s trek is you'd have Chewbok.

1216
00:58:10.739 --> 00:58:15.480
I don't know, doing a Vulcan orchid and saying, well, the metaphor

1217
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:18.599
here is, is that if you take this leaf here and that leaf there

1218
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:21.059
you put them together and there's our plot 2 points.

1219
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1220
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:24.000
It makes some dreadful analogy like that.

1221
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:26.099
The 2 of them are quite good.

1222
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:29.820
They have a, like, moments together in episode 2 of this series

1223
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:34.079
and here we go, bookending from his opening scene where, and it's

1224
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.980
all a little bit obvious, you know, but it's nice to hear it

1225
00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:38.340
said.

1226
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.239
No, she's not okay.

1227
00:58:39.300 --> 00:58:43.679
I mean, I am going to say, though, yeah, um, this is how little

1228
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:45.960
I've connected with somebody, I don't know some of their names.

1229
00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:47.820
What's this woman's name here?

1230
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:49.380
Kayla Detmer.

1231
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:49.860
Thank you.

1232
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:50.579
I don't know.

1233
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:51.780
I can't remember her name.

1234
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:53.579
Yeah, she was on the show.

1235
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:54.480
She's in the 1st episode.

1236
00:58:54.539 --> 00:58:55.440
Yeah.

1237
00:58:55.860 --> 00:58:59.400
I was just wondering if maybe if Eric Sward had written this and

1238
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:01.440
they weren't given names.

1239
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:03.300
No, they all have names.

1240
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:08.639
I think Pike make sure that we're introduced to them all in an

1241
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:09.960
early episode of series two.

1242
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:12.239
Oh, just in case you've forgotten.

1243
00:59:12.300 --> 00:59:13.920
Just in case you think...

1244
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:20.639
Where do we where do we go from here then?

1245
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:25.019
So, so, so we do find the Federation fairly soon.

1246
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:26.940
In fact, maybe next episode.

1247
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.619
Yeah, not very nice, are they?

1248
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:30.119
It's like that hot grey-headed man.

1249
00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:32.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1250
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:34.440
But we grow to love him. so it's a thing.

1251
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.739
I love there we go.

1252
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:42.840
There's um, uh, cousin Michelle taking um, some popcorn off

1253
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:43.320
Linus.

1254
00:59:43.380 --> 00:59:45.059
What's a liner?

1255
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.420
So I was about to say...

1256
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:50.699
So, saurians are in original track.

1257
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.840
They're from original track.

1258
00:59:51.900 --> 00:59:53.460
I think he's a really funny character.

1259
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:55.500
I don't think they look like that in the original track, did

1260
00:59:55.500 --> 00:59:55.619
they?

1261
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.119
No, no.

1262
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:01.079
So this is one of the things that I had a little cry about, and

1263
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:08.219
it's ridiculous, but the way that Stammet comes up to Kayla, and

1264
01:00:08.219 --> 01:00:12.900
they just hug without saying anything, and it's not Kayla doesn't

1265
01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:18.420
get kind of forced to apologise, or, you know, he doesn't talk

1266
01:00:18.420 --> 01:00:20.400
about how much it hurt him or anything like that.

1267
01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:23.159
It was just pure forgiveness.

1268
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:27.420
And if this was not his trek, that absolutely would have happened

1269
01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:29.340
that would be a dialogue scene now, wouldn't there?

1270
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.199
I just love that so much.

1271
01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:37.500
I just, that idea of just these people reconnecting, in spite of

1272
01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:40.199
the fact that they've been stressed and horrible to one another

1273
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:43.739
and maybe I'm watching this a few weeks after a sort of long

1274
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:46.739
isolated lockdown, and that probably didn't help.

1275
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:50.940
But the idea of just that reconnection, that effortless

1276
01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:52.320
reconnection, I think, is beautiful.

1277
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:57.840
I think sometimes when you watch something, uh, completely informs

1278
01:00:57.840 --> 01:00:59.039
your reaction to it as well.

1279
01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:01.619
Although quickly going back to, you know, you said how they didn't

1280
01:01:01.619 --> 01:01:04.320
have to talk about it, there was one example in 90s trailer.

1281
01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:07.679
I just want to very quickly say in, when you know, when Kira and

1282
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:11.039
Odo fall out during the Dominion War arc, and then you're like, oh

1283
01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:13.139
no, they're going to have this awful episode where, you know, the

1284
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:14.219
2 of them come back together.

1285
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.039
And then Jadzir has her wedding episode and the pair of them end

1286
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:18.059
up in a cupboard drunk.

1287
01:01:18.659 --> 01:01:22.199
And then in the morning, they come out the cupboard and it's all

1288
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:22.619
sorted.

1289
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.739
Oh, brilliant. not making us watch that.

1290
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:28.860
There's no one again. awesome.

1291
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:30.059
Ahead of its time.

1292
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:30.960
Yeah.

1293
01:01:31.380 --> 01:01:33.239
That's brilliant.

1294
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:34.980
Oh, this scene as well.

1295
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:35.579
Oh my.

1296
01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:38.760
Okay, look at the lighting in this scene.

1297
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:40.260
It's really stunning.

1298
01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:44.340
Yeah, well, the way that they light through the windows, I think

1299
01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:48.300
is it's something that David Carson does in generations that we

1300
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.000
talked about it when we were doing yesterday's Enterprise, I think

1301
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:51.780
in our 1st episode.

1302
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:58.320
I can remember an episode of DS9 when I go back to when the

1303
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:02.639
station is next to Bajor, in series 6 and they've got lights

1304
01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:05.340
streaming through the windows, just like this.

1305
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:05.820
Right.

1306
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:08.639
And I'm like, oh, man, we can do that all the time.

1307
01:02:08.699 --> 01:02:10.440
We'll be good about this all along.

1308
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:18.420
So, um, Michael leaves and says you'll start to get their memories

1309
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:20.880
back in time, no doubt.

1310
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:25.619
And then I think, do we hear Gray's voice before we see him?

1311
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:27.420
Yes, we do.

1312
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:32.039
He delivers the line out of view and the camera swings around and

1313
01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:34.619
there he is and he's criticising her bowie.

1314
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:36.599
And she's laughing about it.

1315
01:02:36.659 --> 01:02:37.500
Man, this is so real.

1316
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:38.340
This is so real.

1317
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:39.659
It's lovely.

1318
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:41.460
Look at him.

1319
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:47.699
Yeah, no, these 2 make me happy all season.

1320
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:51.239
See, I think I think we could probably have more of these two.

1321
01:02:51.300 --> 01:02:52.559
Yeah, yeah.

1322
01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:53.280
Yeah.

1323
01:02:53.340 --> 01:02:57.539
Yeah, I missed Gray for the episodes that he was absent in the

1324
01:02:57.539 --> 01:03:00.360
middle of the season and I don't know whether it was act as an

1325
01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:05.159
availability or what it was, but they have a fight and he doesn't

1326
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:06.360
show up for a bit.

1327
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:08.400
And this, look at that.

1328
01:03:11.460 --> 01:03:12.480
The smile.

1329
01:03:12.539 --> 01:03:15.960
Like, we've we've mentioned a lot of beautiful imagery.

1330
01:03:16.019 --> 01:03:19.619
It goes out with the most beautiful imagery of the episode.

1331
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:26.159
And uh, the lullaby that they're playing is a plot point and we'll

1332
01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:26.940
come up again.

1333
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.340
So, uh, and you know what?

1334
01:03:29.340 --> 01:03:30.360
It's very strange.

1335
01:03:30.420 --> 01:03:36.780
Sometimes, um, See, I watched this on my own, and I found it very

1336
01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:37.260
very big.

1337
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:40.139
But weirdly enough, as a shared experience, I found that more

1338
01:03:40.139 --> 01:03:40.860
moving.

1339
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:44.039
It's, I think it's beautiful.

1340
01:03:44.099 --> 01:03:46.019
It is really, really good.

1341
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:50.880
And I think, you know, the other thing that, that, that this has

1342
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:55.500
over 90 Star Trek is just, it's a, it's more sophisticated

1343
01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:56.460
storytelling.

1344
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:59.340
The dialogue is generally better.

1345
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:02.099
And it's beautiful.

1346
01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:03.960
Gosh it's a beautiful looking show.

1347
01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:05.940
Hello, that was such a good episode.

1348
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:08.519
I'm not going to contradict anything of what you just said there

1349
01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:10.800
but I have many things to say off camera, right?

1350
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:16.739
But I will say, I think I, this year before, I think this is a

1351
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:19.860
fairly atypical discovery episode.

1352
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.579
Um But it is stunningly good.

1353
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:25.079
It's a great piece of drama.

1354
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:28.980
Yeah, no, we were lucky to get this for our 1st discovery, I

1355
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:29.159
think.

1356
01:04:29.219 --> 01:04:30.360
Oh, really?

1357
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:32.340
I'm only one of their shitters.

1358
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:34.199
I could have still defended that.

1359
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:44.039
All right, so you and I have made a decision about which series

1360
01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:46.559
we're going to cover next episode.

1361
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.440
We have, yes.

1362
01:04:49.500 --> 01:04:50.940
For a couple of reasons.

1363
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:57.239
I think, um, I think there's quite a lot of original series fans

1364
01:04:57.239 --> 01:04:59.699
out there when it comes to Star Trek.

1365
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:03.900
And secondly, our fantastic artwork that has been delivered this

1366
01:05:03.900 --> 01:05:06.480
week very much leans into the original series.

1367
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:07.619
It does.

1368
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:09.059
Space Lincoln.

1369
01:05:10.739 --> 01:05:13.199
I got a tribble on my shoulder.

1370
01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:17.699
Can I just say for a moment, Kayla, you made me extremely well

1371
01:05:17.699 --> 01:05:18.719
muscled within that.

1372
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:20.940
Next generation uniform.

1373
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:21.539
Thank you very much.

1374
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:23.099
Yeah, no, you're poured into that.

1375
01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:29.159
So we're doing an episode of Star Trek, the original series, and

1376
01:05:29.159 --> 01:05:29.579
that's all.

1377
01:05:29.699 --> 01:05:33.000
And I think when it comes to the original series, you know, I

1378
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:36.900
think we're both, we're not too knowledgable, are we?

1379
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:41.340
I couldn't put my hand on my heart and swear that I've seen every

1380
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:43.980
episode, but I have seen a lot of it.

1381
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:47.159
And some of it I've seen a whole bunch of times.

1382
01:05:47.219 --> 01:05:49.440
So it sort of varies, I think.

1383
01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:53.699
I usually get to the episode where Kirk could split into 2 and

1384
01:05:53.699 --> 01:05:56.880
then it goes off to do unspeakable things to old Janice.

1385
01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:57.360
What's her name?

1386
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:00.420
and then I turn it off then and say, well, okay, this clearly was

1387
01:06:00.420 --> 01:06:01.260
made in a different time.

1388
01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:08.159
But I am my finger is hovering over the button.

1389
01:06:08.219 --> 01:06:13.679
Okay, so you're at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser

1390
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:18.000
where the randomiser can be found for all your random Star Trek

1391
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:18.480
needs.

1392
01:06:19.019 --> 01:06:21.480
Okay, I want you to press a button.

1393
01:06:21.539 --> 01:06:22.619
Doing it.

1394
01:06:23.699 --> 01:06:26.099
Oh, I don't know what that is.

1395
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:29.400
The ultimate computer.

1396
01:06:29.460 --> 01:06:32.579
Oh, other than that one.

1397
01:06:32.820 --> 01:06:34.380
Do you know what?

1398
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:36.059
Ain't fun if I don't do it at least 3 times.

1399
01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:37.380
Okay, all right.

1400
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:38.159
Let's make that the rule.

1401
01:06:38.219 --> 01:06:39.599
Oh no, no, no.

1402
01:06:39.659 --> 01:06:40.980
Okay, it's got to be this one.

1403
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:44.699
This episode has the best score of any TOS.

1404
01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.400
The Corbamite maneuver.

1405
01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:48.480
Oh, okay.

1406
01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:49.320
Yep, absolutely.

1407
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:50.099
I'm okay.

1408
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:51.900
And the music goes, duh.

1409
01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:57.539
It's so, oh, it's fabulous.

1410
01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:02.820
And it's got this great big yellow sphere that and at the end

1411
01:07:02.820 --> 01:07:06.659
there's some weird twist about this child man who's behind a

1412
01:07:06.659 --> 01:07:07.440
fabulous episode.

1413
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:09.000
Yes, yes.

1414
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:10.079
It's a very famous episode.

1415
01:07:10.139 --> 01:07:10.739
Okay.

1416
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:11.159
All right.

1417
01:07:11.219 --> 01:07:12.420
The Corba might maneuver.

1418
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:14.099
So that's what we'll be doing next time.

1419
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:15.360
Oh wait.

1420
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:26.519
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1421
01:07:26.519 --> 01:07:27.900
and Nathan Bottomley.

1422
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:31.559
You can find us online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where

1423
01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:35.099
you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1424
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:38.699
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed

1425
01:07:38.699 --> 01:07:39.900
by Cameron Lamb.

1426
01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:44.579
This episode was recorded on the 27th of October 2021 and released

1427
01:07:44.579 --> 01:07:46.619
on the 26th of November.

1428
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:51.119
We'll see you next time for the original series, The Corbamite

1429
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:51.780
maneuver.