WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:43:58

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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Okay, so I think we have stretched the term randomiser to a ridiculous degree, so far, because there's been very little randomising going on.

3
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We've selected the series that we've wanted to and then chosen an episode through that.

4
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For once in the last episode.

5
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We put in every single series aside from the ones that we've already done commentaries on.

6
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And perchance, we happen to, upon Star Trek Discovery.

7
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Nathan, why don't you tell us what you think of Star Trek Discovery?

8
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So I am a really, really huge fan of Kurtzman Star Trek, this new kind of iteration of Star Trek that we're getting now with this sort of incredible suite of shows that we're suddenly getting.

9
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And, you know, it all began with discovery a few years ago.

10
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And I think that, like right from the get go, I was on board, partly just because it was a kind of Star Trek that we really hadn't ever seen before.

11
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You know, Berman Trek is sort of solid and generally competent, but it has a very, very definite look to it and a very definite house style.

12
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And so it was nice seeing Star Trek on TV that didn't look like that.

13
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And then Discovery initially, at least, was an attempt to do a sort of show set in the Star Trek universe rather than just a Star Trek show.

14
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And I really appreciated that.

15
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And it had all sorts of other things going for it that I really enjoyed.

16
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But, yeah, so look, I am a huge fan of 90s trek and always will be.

17
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It's kind of my 1st trek love, and I'll always sort of go back there, but I'm absolutely delighted to be getting so much Star Trek that I haven't seen a 100 times and Star Trek that is doing stuff that Star Trek has never attempted to do before, I think.

18
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I think for me, there's a massive comfort in having that body of episodes from the 90s and going back and revisiting those.

19
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And like I'm one of those annoying fans.

20
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It's like, well, I don't want new stuff.

21
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I don't want to focus. want to watch new stuff and form new opinions.

22
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I like the fact that I've got the library to watch.

23
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I turned off discovery halfway through the 1st episode.

24
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Outrageous. during those interminable Klingon scenes with the subtitles on.

25
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I was like, oh, what is this?

26
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And then I did try and go back and watch it and I didn't really connect with series one and it wasn't until you and I started talking that and you were so positive about it and obviously gave a typically smart reading on it.

27
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Oh, I was like, okay, I'm going to go back.

28
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And we kind of almost went through series one and 2 together.

29
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And I found it deeply flawed, as you know.

30
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Yeah, um, and then sort of halfway through Series 3, I abandoned it again.

31
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However, I'm not here to dump all over Discovery.

32
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I think, okay, so I've written down 2 things, a good thing and a bad thing because I feel like I need to be balanced.

33
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So the thing that, Really, I can't get on board with is how discovery reinvents itself every year.

34
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I know it was originally supposed to be an anthology series, wasn't it?

35
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Set in different throne zones.

36
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That was the original idea.

37
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And they have kind of done that in a way, in that series one is, I feel like was is one of the boldest years of Star Trek ever, trying to do something completely different to what's come before, to the point where they didn't even have like the crew assembled until like episode four.

38
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They can have to ship in into episode three.

39
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And you watch the 1st couple of episodes.

40
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You've got no clue what this show's about.

41
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Which is kind of exciting, in a way.

42
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But not what I expect from Star Trek, which is probably why I was like, well, what is this?

43
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Um, and then series 2, it went down a mad nostalgia route, didn't it?

44
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Like it was, you know, pike, spock and, you know, number one and there couldn't have been more nostalgia.

45
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And then in season 3, they've skipped into the future, into the unknown, which is very exciting.

46
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Really, and I think that 1st half of Series 3 is really good as they are building, like this future that we don't know about, with the Federation gone and the existing wells in different, you know, in different places, that's really, really exciting.

47
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But it means I can't get a handle on this show.

48
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Yeah.

49
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And I, you know, with DS9, with Next Generation, with Voyager.

50
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They kind of set their store in episode one and that's the show, you know?

51
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Yeah, I'm not sure that Deep Space 9 is that because it has at least a kind of soft reboot in the middle and it does go to places that I don't think they anticipated it going kind of originally.

52
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And I acknowledge that the biggest weakness of discovery is that it doesn't quite know what it's doing.

53
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And because it's the 1st Star Trek for a long time and because it had significant kind of production problems.

54
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I adored series one and I thought series 2 was kind of an apology tour for series one where they kind of walked back all of the interesting things they did in series one.

55
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But I thought series 2 was still solid and enjoyable.

56
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And I remember reaching the end of series 2 and thinking they had better not be going into the future permanently or I'm going to be really cross.

57
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And of course, they did.

58
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And I think it turned out fine.

59
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And as we record, we're a few weeks away from the debut of series 4 and it looks like they're for the 1st time, series 4 is going to be set in the same kind of world that series 3 is set.

60
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So I think they found their groove, but it certainly taken them a while to sort it out.

61
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But a massive strength of the show.

62
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I think I think discovery is like the best example of how TV can look.

63
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Oh, God, it's cinematically good at times.

64
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In fact, I think sometimes it looks better than some of the movies, you know?

65
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Oh, a lot of the time.

66
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Yeah, yeah I agree.

67
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Um, and I think it's the slowest of slow burns, go with me here.

68
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I have come to enjoy a lot of the characters.

69
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It took me a long time to get on board with this cast because I don't think you're supposed to like half them in series one.

70
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No, and I think there's something off putting about the main cast not being the bridge crew, and I think that that was a very definite choice.

71
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And so you have all of those people like Reese and Detmer and Bryce who are on the bridge, but they're not the characters that we're interested in following it all, and we barely know them.

72
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But even those, even those characters are, we, we're starting to get to know because like there's some scenes in this episode where, where they're starting to give them a bit of depth.

73
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But as I think somewhere in series 2, that whole cast gelled really well.

74
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And you had, oh, no, I'm really happy with the name.

75
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Stamets, the redhead.

76
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I think he's really good.

77
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Tilly, okay, she annoys me a little bit.

78
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But she's really funny and really like engaging character.

79
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Um, Saru, who...

80
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Like, I can't believe he's not the captain anymore.

81
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Such a good captain.

82
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And you know my one big sticking boy, don't you?

83
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Michael Burnham.

84
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Oh, she is so good.

85
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Oh, she's a bowling.

86
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No, no, no.

87
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I think Sanequa is so charming and so beautiful and has like charisma that just shines off the screen.

88
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And I think they did lean into giving her a bit of, you know, weepy speeches thing in series two. which is a, yeah, yeah, which is a thing that can happen.

89
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But I think she's a great sort of charming anchor to the show and I'm hugely excited for series 4 to see what she does.

90
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Series 3 reinvents her character, I think.

91
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And, you know, there's a year, isn't it?

92
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that she's in the future before the rest of them.

93
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So she's settled and she's really at peace with herself and there's a relaxed charm about her that kind of wasn't there before.

94
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I remember and we haven't been watching Forget Me Not today.

95
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And in this episode, I think she's extraordinarily good.

96
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So, yeah, Michael Burnham.

97
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I think elements of her performance are sort of always there, but she is in a different, more relaxed place.

98
00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:01.919
I think you're right.

99
00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:09.179
So this is series 3, episode four, as you said, Joe, forget me not.

100
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And it was 1st broadcast on the 5th of November 2020.

101
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So, uh, very, very modern uh, compared to what we've been doing up till now.

102
00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:22.019
Do you think we should get going?

103
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Yeah, I'm ready to go.

104
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All right.

105
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I will just get on the 1st frame here.

106
00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:34.679
Okay, and I'll count us in.

107
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Is that all right?

108
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Let's do it.

109
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Okay, five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

110
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Something I absolutely love about this season.

111
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Yeah, this this into the unknown season is um, There are no certainties at all, is there?

112
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Like, with Star Trek, you know, they, they, especially 90s Trek, they built up the quadrants, and we knew exactly what to do.

113
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All bets are off in this season.

114
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That was a smart move, I think.

115
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I think Star Trek's biggest weakness is its continuity, the sort of memory alphaness of everything, the fact that it all happens in this sort of world that has this sort of history, and they're sort of struggling to find corners in which they can tell stories that don't sort of break anything else.

116
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And one of the things that I loved about series.

117
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One of Discovery was how many risks they took with that.

118
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You know, they said it just before the original series and they did things that annoyed the fans about continuity.

119
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And I'm absolutely on board with that.

120
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Technology was amazing, wasn't it?

121
00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:52.919
Well, but I mean, what would you do?

122
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Would you put a show out in 2017 that looked like Star Trek?

123
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The original series?

124
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The whole thing about it is that it is very, very pretty pictures.

125
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I mean, just just the lighting, the quality of the direction, the music, my God. rewatching this again just now, the music is stunningly good in a way that Star Trek has never, ever had.

126
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It's it's I find the music quite subtle in this episode.

127
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There's a lot of bombasting discovery because there's a lot of action.

128
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But this is a gentle episode, isn't it?

129
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So it's got a very sweet score, I think.

130
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There was a potential for it to go a bit too kind of schmoopy as well, and it didn't do that.

131
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Like it resisted that.

132
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I think it's beautiful.

133
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So here we have to point out that I'm quite impressed that so far the cameras are moving at a fairly sedate pace through discovery.

134
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In fact, Jonathan breaks this week.

135
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It's all going it's in slow motion.

136
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It's even slower than DSnipe.

137
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Well, I think this scene is really terribly good, and I'm not normally a big fan of voiceovers and stuff like that.

138
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I think sometimes they're a bit of a cheat and there are some pretty ripe ones in series 2 of discovery.

139
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But I think this is this is good.

140
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And because I think, in between the voiceovers, he's interacting with all of the characters.

141
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And so we see this, what he says illustrated by what the characters are doing.

142
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And just now we sure us, just now we saw a shot of Kayla.

143
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Kayla Detmer, who has a sort of cyborg implant.

144
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And we're talking about her not being okay.

145
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She denies that we know she's not okay.

146
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And she has the implant because of the injury that she suffered in episode one of Star Trek Discovery.

147
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She was on the Bridge of the Shenzhou for the Battle of the Binary Stars.

148
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And so the injury, you know, the not okayness, is like visible on her face in the form of that injury.

149
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I think it's really good.

150
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And then here, we get talk of connection and belonging to a bigger thing at the moment that we see the trill symbion to appear on screen.

151
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Very, very clever.

152
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He says, he says, there's 5 words that, giving everybody hope when we find the Federation.

153
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I sent you a message earlier saying that this episode leans into something, that Voyager did terribly, and it's built into its premise, and that is the idea of being cut off from home and the emotional ramifications of that.

154
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Now, I'm, you said it extends to beyond this episode.

155
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I can't remember much of that.

156
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It's dealt with so powerfully in this episode and in a way that's really affecting.

157
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I can't remember Voyager ever.

158
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Ever pulling off this concept of being trapped away from home and being terrified to have no connection to all, you know, there were people back home.

159
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It's really, really good.

160
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And the idea of connection too is so central to both plots in this and and to the arc as well.

161
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So the arc is that they've got this message and they want to find the Federation, so they have somewhere to belong.

162
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The A-plot, I guess the A-plot is Adira's plot, is Adira reconnecting with her memories, but finding that she's many, many people in one.

163
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She's a person who consists of a group of people and she's not aware of that.

164
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And her connection with Trill and Trill's connection with the Federation and everyone's connection with each other.

165
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It's so rich.

166
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We're not in 90s trek now, are we?

167
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No, God, yeah, the A and B plotter that I completely just get there for people is just filling time.

168
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Yeah, what's 2 questions for you?

169
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Number one question is this.

170
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When did Adira join the show?

171
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Because I don't remember her much before this.

172
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So no, she, she, she's from the future, so she's from this time, so I guess she must join the previous episode, I think.

173
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Or maybe at the end of episode two.

174
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I can't remember exactly.

175
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Oh, here, we've got the titles.

176
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What do you think?

177
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They are beautiful.

178
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Really quite simple, isn't it?

179
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Like, I mean, it's not.

180
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It's clearly a very sophisticated piece of effects work, but it's a simple idea.

181
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Mind you, it's focussing on the technology and that's my least, you know, I think I like least about Star Trek, but...

182
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You know what I think it's focussing on?

183
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I don't think it's focussing on the, I think it's focussing on the look of the show.

184
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And because they're blueprints, they make us think about people designing what Star Trek will look like in the 21st century.

185
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And they don't do it in Picard and stuff.

186
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But look, there's these exploded views of the phases and stuff.

187
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There's a little bit about the future here.

188
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Some of the technologies from, you know, they change the title sequence every year slightly.

189
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And so some of the technology here is from the future.

190
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We can't hear it.

191
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The theme is extraordinary.

192
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It's beautiful.

193
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And you are right.

194
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All of the the latter-day tricks.

195
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So Discovery lower decks and Picard have superb things. leagues ahead of 90s trek.

196
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Well, Lower Decks is a is a love letter to...

197
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That is great fun.

198
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Yeah, yeah.

199
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But the music is as well.

200
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Like, it's very kind of 90s track.

201
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My 2nd question she was, yes, there's nothing to do with the episode.

202
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I thought that doctor had died.

203
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:44.519
Yeah, he got better.

204
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You know, did he just come back?

205
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Yeah.

206
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Have you haven't been watching the latest series of lower decks where that happens to a crew member as well.

207
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And there's a whole thing about them talking about how that always happens to the bridge crew and, you know, like Boem was not allowed to ask how it happened and stuff like that.

208
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So it is a thing.

209
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It is earned.

210
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It does take a long time and a lot of effort.

211
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:16.680
And it is clearly because killing him was a horrible mistake in series one.

212
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.980
I was about to say, she, what's the doctor's name in this?

213
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:25.559
Because in GNG, it would be like, you know, Dr. Crusher has, she's brought him back with her usual skill, but he is the doctor.

214
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:26.279
So that don't work.

215
00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:37.200
I think it's ironic that the episode of discovery that we have been selected is the most 90s trek episode of discovery I can think of.

216
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:45.240
Yeah, well, the other thing about Kurtzman Trek that I adore is that it loves Star Trek in all its forms.

217
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:47.279
Especially lower decks.

218
00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:52.920
Yeah, well, Lower Decks is a love letter to 90s Trek, but it's constantly riffing on original Trek as well.

219
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:55.619
And the animated series, for God's sake.

220
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.660
The great stature of Chief O'Brien.

221
00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.680
Yeah, yeah.

222
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:14.759
And then this, and I think they find something, you'll know this better than me, but I think they find something more interesting to do with the trill than they ever manage with Jadzia or something different, a new way of conceptualising the trill.

223
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:17.400
They did interesting things with the true.

224
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.220
She used to be a mass murderer.

225
00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:27.599
Um, but, uh, you say that, this is a direct sequel to the episode.

226
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:28.799
Yeah, yeah, I know.

227
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:37.740
Because I watched, forget me not, an equilibrium back to back just because I wanted to see how faithful they were to equilibrium.

228
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.099
And like the scenes set in the symbian pools.

229
00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.880
I think, you know, obviously it's a bit more visually stunning in this.

230
00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:47.819
But essentially they look exactly the same.

231
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:49.019
Yeah.

232
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.859
Well, they love 90s track and and the trill.

233
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:57.660
And of course, these guys are from the era of TOS, they don't know about the trills.

234
00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:10.140
And and Saru had to explain to Michael who they were and what their deal was, you know, presumably because he's got the sphere information or whatever from last year and so he knows all about it.

235
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:38.940
And what it is, is that you become part of a group of people, that you become a person who is made up of other people, and just the richness of that, and the way that it resonates with a crew becoming a group of people together or Discovery, joining the Federation or Trill, joining the Federation, I think, is it's so good.

236
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.779
It is so good.

237
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.200
But we get some painful moments leading up to that, I think.

238
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:47.640
I mean, I felt that that moment where we're not there yet.

239
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:52.740
We'll get there, where they're all around the table, having the dinner and laughing and joking and it all gets very soon.

240
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:57.359
That's the 1st time I felt like this whole crew, you know, was coming together and I felt like they were an ensemble, you know?

241
00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:02.640
Yeah, that's how they get you though, because it all falls to pieces, obviously. very well done.

242
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:05.039
Oh, see, now, I remember.

243
00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:07.500
See, this pair here, Tilly and Stamets.

244
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:09.480
I think that's a really great combination.

245
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:11.039
And I remember a scene.

246
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:19.920
I think it's in series 2 where they start singing a David Bowie song and that was the moment when I was convinced that I could get on board with Discovery.

247
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:22.380
It was it was a really sweet, really funny moment.

248
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.180
They have a really nice relationship, I think.

249
00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah, I think they do too.

250
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:27.119
Now, look here.

251
00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:37.500
She has a holographic, um, a paranoia board with all the pins and and like red thread joining them together.

252
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:42.720
Like with photos of the burn and all of that sort of thing.

253
00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:44.519
It's a big hologram in front of her.

254
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.720
I was so excited by that.

255
00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:46.859
It's her murder board.

256
00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:50.519
I really like her performers in this scene.

257
00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:53.759
Yeah, like her performance irritates me quite a lot.

258
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:54.539
I won't lie.

259
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:59.579
In this episode, I don't know, there's just something really gentle about her that I really like.

260
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:01.140
Well, I think that's always been there.

261
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:11.880
I think that that is, you know, what her character is, but she has to kind of work her way back, you know, from losing everything and all of that sort of thing in series one.

262
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:18.599
But there's a real kind of gentleness to it, but I just think there's a charm and there's...

263
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.680
That's the difference.

264
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:20.640
They cover tears.

265
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:24.660
There are some tears in this episode, I think, but I think they're a little bit more earned.

266
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:26.039
Or we're just not sick of them.

267
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.720
We're just not sick of them at this point. they even have a line kind of making fun of that a little bit.

268
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.180
Can we talk about Hugh?

269
00:21:33.539 --> 00:21:35.039
Go on.

270
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:35.759
He's very hot.

271
00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:38.400
He's so sweet.

272
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:42.299
He also has been very sweet and gentle.

273
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:49.740
And he's foregrounded here in a way that he hasn't been since he had the kind of I'm dead and now I'm better subplot.

274
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.059
And I think he's great.

275
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.460
He's a good choice here.

276
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:59.940
If if Brian Fuller had remained in charge of discovery.

277
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.440
Yeah, because he was summarily fired, wasn't he, somewhere in season one.

278
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:08.099
Um, I don't think he would have come back.

279
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.859
I don't think we would be leaning so much into 90s trek.

280
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:15.480
I think the show would be going down the direction it went in series one.

281
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:17.759
It would be a very very different show to what it is now.

282
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:22.319
Um, I'm really pleased it went this way if I'm monitoring you.

283
00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:32.339
Yeah, I think for me it is getting a little bit more standard Star Trek in a way that disappoints me slightly, but I am hoping that with strange new worlds coming.

284
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:43.259
Well, you know, because this doesn't have to be all of Star Trek anymore, Star Trek can all be different and do different things.

285
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:56.460
And so if you've got a slightly more TRAD version of Star Trek that's a little bit less serialised and a little bit more like, you know, the procedural that all the previous Star Trek's have been, except maybe Deep Space Night.

286
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:03.900
Um, then this will be free to do something a little bit more interesting and a little bit longer term.

287
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:14.940
But then it turns out as well that that the cast of Strange New Worlds is really diverse and strange, like it's going to be super interesting, I think.

288
00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:22.799
We just pause for a moment um, to comment on how completely charming a deer raise.

289
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:23.759
Yeah.

290
00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:27.779
I think she, this is the most likeable character I've seen in Discovery.

291
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.420
Um, there's a there's like a warmth to her.

292
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.799
There's a vulnerability to her.

293
00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:43.740
I instantly liked her in this and um, oh, wow, I don't want to talk about what's going to happen later on in the episode, but the direction they go in with the, the, the love affair.

294
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:45.180
Oh, it's beautiful.

295
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.160
It's the best thing they do this season I think.

296
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:50.160
She, it's the vulnerability.

297
00:23:50.220 --> 00:24:09.900
There's a real awkwardness, and she seems, I think, look, we all know that Adira will come out as non-binary later in the season and she'll start using they them pronouns, and they'll say that that's what they're more comfortable with, and that's how they kind of identify.

298
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:15.779
And the actor themselves, Blue Del Barrio identifies the same way.

299
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:25.259
And so we have a non-binary character in Star Trek, and we're going to have a trans character played by Ian Alexander as Gray.

300
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:37.319
And there is something actually rather sweet in the way that they're introduced into Star Trek, because queer characters have been a long time coming to Star Trek.

301
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:38.400
Thanks, Rick Berman.

302
00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:40.319
It's acknowledged.

303
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:47.039
It's acknowledged in the DS9 documentary, Ira Bear, chastises himself.

304
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:47.940
Right.

305
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:49.500
But not being...

306
00:24:49.559 --> 00:25:01.920
He goes, we got a lot of things right for not being brave enough because Garak was supposed to be a gay character in DS9 and they pushed away from it and introduced Goldicut's daughter, which is just ickier than any queer.

307
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:03.599
Yeah, she's a young girl.

308
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.259
And he says we could have done better.

309
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.599
He looked straight down the cameras, we should have done better.

310
00:25:09.900 --> 00:25:13.680
Now, can I just, and that's, that's, sorry, go on.

311
00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:19.319
Just very quickly, we had the shuttle landing at the Maktala Caves visitors centre there.

312
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.660
Can I say, I missed the old Matt painting zone.

313
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:25.140
Sorry.

314
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:33.960
Well, see, that's the other thing too, is that this show is really committed to putting beautiful things on screen.

315
00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:37.619
And so here we're padding past these little fish.

316
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:39.900
The flying fish and the fish flies.

317
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.500
It's amazing.

318
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.140
I wanted to mention the robots.

319
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.940
So we're going about in the earliest.

320
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.079
You're the ones that repair things.

321
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.180
Such a lovely...

322
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.039
Oh my god, Nathan, look at these.

323
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:53.880
Now, they've been transported straight out of 90s trekking their robes, haven't they?

324
00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:56.279
And that's the other thing too.

325
00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:05.339
This version of Star Trek isn't a shamed of being Star Trek and it will do cheesy things like this, these people in their robes, God bless them.

326
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:09.240
And a planet of like 10 people, you know.

327
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:19.319
Do you remember in the last episode, the 2nd to last episode of Picard, when it went down to the like the Android tublicate. it was so fucking cheesy.

328
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.859
I was like, I feel like I'm watching episode CNG again.

329
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:25.619
It was like watching insurrection, wasn't it?

330
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.480
And this, this is basically equilibrium.

331
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:37.980
Like, yeah, people in ridiculous robes, slightly theatrical performances, you know, it's, um, 0 my god, it's so comforting. love it.

332
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.380
And the other thing here too.

333
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:45.299
Is that they are not unified either.

334
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:50.460
We have the usual thing where we're down on the planet and there are 2 political factions.

335
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:56.039
So you have this guy whose name I can't remember.

336
00:26:56.099 --> 00:27:00.059
Voss, I think he was the one who came on board the ship as a hologram at the beginning.

337
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.740
And then we have Z, who is the good guy in the red robe.

338
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:10.259
And then we have, you know, between them, Pav or whatever her name is, the leader.

339
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.059
She is really good.

340
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:16.500
I think she's probably a well-known actor who we don't know, but she's very familiar.

341
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.380
Who knows how the spots have got a little subtler.

342
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:22.019
It used to be a bit more dramatic, didn't they, right?

343
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.019
No, what, we a 1000 years in the future?

344
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:26.700
1000 years, 900 something.

345
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:27.000
Yeah.

346
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:28.859
Well, I think they've, you know.

347
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:35.039
I think the makeup is, you know, more expensive. these overdone robes.

348
00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:35.519
I'm sorry.

349
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:41.819
But so you've got these political factions and they come together at the end as well.

350
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.579
You know, the thing is...

351
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:46.799
You're unifying all the themes here in this episode.

352
00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:48.599
Well, that's the other thing.

353
00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:58.140
And some people found this difficult to take in series one of discovery, which is that it seemed to not really have that Starfleet ideal.

354
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:06.960
And because it was a time of war, it was all about, you know, what compromises we need to make to our ideals to to kind of prosecute this war.

355
00:28:07.019 --> 00:28:10.859
Sorry, but you sounds like you're describing DS9 to me there, but go.

356
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.220
Yeah, yeah. and then they go to the mirror universe and it's like Trump world.

357
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:27.000
And now this show is rebuilding the Federation out of isolationist, angry isolationist groups, Earth last week was that, like Earth had become that.

358
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:29.339
Do you know, I'm surprised.

359
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.839
You know, the whole idea of the burn and the Federation, you know, just all being destroyed.

360
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:37.259
I mean, I thought fans would absolutely push against that.

361
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:39.960
And people, basically on the whole, went with it.

362
00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:43.619
Which I was quite surprised about it. because it was exciting.

363
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.559
Star Trek was, it was unknowable again.

364
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.559
It's enticing, I think, to not know.

365
00:28:50.339 --> 00:29:00.119
It is this thing where, where we've kind of, um, uh, we're in the ruins of the Federation.

366
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:08.519
And, and Picard has the same thing too, where, you know, a big disaster has happened on Mars and the earth has become isolationist as well.

367
00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:10.799
Can I stop you there for a 2nd though?

368
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:15.240
I feel like Picard was at least Discovery has some optimism about it.

369
00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:19.259
That Picard was so cynical. about everything.

370
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.440
I mean, it couldn't have been more different from the next generation, could it?

371
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:23.579
in terms of tone.

372
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:31.200
I got halfway through that season and they were gouging out old characters eyeballs and all sorts and I was going, what is going on?

373
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:31.680
The stuff.

374
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:32.819
Star Trek, you know?

375
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:49.799
But I think, you know, just now after 4 years of Trump and and, you know, Brexit and in a world that isn't the optimistic place that it seemed in the 90s maybe with, you know, um...

376
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:51.960
You don't think that whole analogy for that, do you?

377
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:55.380
building, you know, making America great again.

378
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.539
Now Trump's gone, build rebuilding the Federation.

379
00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:58.859
Yeah, absolutely I do.

380
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:00.059
Yep. absolutely.

381
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:01.079
Yeah.

382
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:05.039
That that's why Star Trek looks like this now.

383
00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:06.599
Well, actually, do you know what?

384
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:17.460
And there's often a case that the politics of the time informs such a look at after 9-11 and then they did the end of Enterprise Series 2 at that massive terror attack.

385
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:22.500
Yeah, and then series 3 was was, you know, post 9-11, sort of paranoia.

386
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:23.940
Yeah, absolutely.

387
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:27.900
Oh, so Ruby, it's so cute.

388
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.299
Like, I love the fact that he can't quite grasp what's wrong, but he wants to know how he can help.

389
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.160
You know, he's such a thoughtful character.

390
00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:36.960
And the actor is really strong.

391
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:44.460
So this is Duck Jones who just wears a lot of prosthetics in everything that he does just about.

392
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:49.740
And, you know, he was the main gentleman in hush in Buffy.

393
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:51.779
Was he really?

394
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:52.440
Yeah, yeah.

395
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:55.559
He's responsible for many of my onlineers, you know.

396
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:56.339
Yeah, yeah.

397
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:02.460
And, you know, like he was the guy in the in the fish suit in shape of water, Oscar winning shape of water.

398
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:07.019
I didn't think much of him. initially.

399
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:09.660
They painted him out to be quiet.

400
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:11.700
Not unlikeable, but a bit cold.

401
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.759
And something changed over the 3 seasons.

402
00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:20.700
And at this point here, he's like, I know he's not the captain at the end of the season and I'm quite sad about that.

403
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:25.619
You said to me that you thought he was the best Star Trek captain there'd ever been.

404
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:38.279
I think that the reason that I really like him as captain is that he isn't the normal kind of, you know, like alpha male leader that even Janeway is.

405
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:42.059
You know, Janeway is very hands-on hips and muscular threats and stuff.

406
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:53.579
He's much more unsure of himself and he's much he's much more likely to operate. through praise and kindness and empathy.

407
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.940
And I really, really like that.

408
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:04.680
He's so kind and and he's got this sort of gentle voice and there's this weird smile he does through the prosthetics.

409
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:06.240
I think he's magnificent.

410
00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:12.420
It's just a moment here to just reflect on how Star Trek Caves have improved over time.

411
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:19.319
The beautiful like fairy lights all about them, but these pools look very similar to the ones in equilibrium.

412
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:21.420
I mean, it does look more visually interesting.

413
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:26.220
But he says at the beginning of the scene, you know, the shrine of Kakakoola or something like that.

414
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.140
Some dreadful Star Trek name.

415
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.319
A very nice stroke.

416
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.900
It was in DS9.

417
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.079
You know, we found the city of Bahalla. basically like that.

418
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:46.559
And she gets into the pool in a minute. to regress into the memories, doesn't she?

419
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:50.700
to, you know, to find. and that absolutely happens in equilibrium as well.

420
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:51.839
Jazia goes into the pool.

421
00:32:51.900 --> 00:33:01.019
I find her memories of that previous host, the serial killer who happens to be recast in series 7, so we didn't have a clue that was when he came along.

422
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:01.980
Ah okay.

423
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:03.720
The war death.

424
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:05.279
Oh, here's the dinner scene.

425
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:06.660
This is terrific, this scene.

426
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:14.400
And so I am not quite sure why you invite, um, Jojo there, except...

427
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.140
Because she's the funniest one around the table.

428
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:17.400
So great.

429
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:19.920
Everyone's going, yes, I said, yes.

430
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:22.740
I said, yes. she said, well, I didn't say yes, but I'm here anyway.

431
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:30.539
Well, no, she starts eating while he's giving the speech, like this, like she spears a crab claw or something.

432
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:33.480
Let's not even pretend she ain't the best thing about this show.

433
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:41.640
She is magnificent that cousin Michelle, who comes from Malaysia and shares her last name with my husband.

434
00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:48.539
So that's cousin Michelle, who comes to all our family dues and kicks middle-aged man in the head.

435
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.099
She's fantastic.

436
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:52.019
She's amazing.

437
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:57.059
I just like that everyone else is, you know, very Starfleet and she's just so...

438
00:33:57.059 --> 00:34:00.839
She pushes against all the normal cliches, doesn't she?

439
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:08.340
For example, we talked about in the previous episode about, you know, that awful old cliche about where they're saying, oh, you've got a choice whether to go to war or not.

440
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.920
She'd absolutely be the one person go, well, I'm not.

441
00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:11.340
I off.

442
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

443
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.119
Yeah, yeah.

444
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:22.739
What happened in this scene, the way this is directed in a way where it feels like, oh, you know, he's got them all around the table.

445
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.960
They're all sharing their experiences, they're all laughing.

446
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:30.179
It's really beautifully done and you lean into the lovelyliness of it.

447
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:36.059
And then it twists, the, the, the, the mood twists very dramatic.

448
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.739
I kind of recoiled from the scene.

449
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:39.420
It was it was so well done.

450
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:50.579
There's a little bit of a thing where the kind of arc, like the reversals and things, mirror the reversals in this other scene that we can't do.

451
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:58.739
And like the 1st time we go to the dinner party, we have a cross fade from the caves to the dinner party as if they're part of the same sort of thing that's happening.

452
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:05.099
And I think that's like that's just sort of terribly well done and like a sort of subtle and clever choice.

453
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:08.340
You see this man here attending the symbian pools.

454
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:09.119
Yeah.

455
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:14.880
I would just like to point out that the same character in the DS9 episode equilibrium was much funnier.

456
00:35:14.940 --> 00:35:19.980
He was one of those, he was one of those mad old eccentrics, you know, that hangs out. been there for centuries.

457
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:20.940
It was really funny.

458
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:23.820
But you can't have everything.

459
00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:25.440
No.

460
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:29.099
Well, you've got you've got cousin Michelle being funny in the other plot.

461
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.039
Do you know what?

462
00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.440
When they all start getting nasty, rich, upper.

463
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:35.400
She's smiling.

464
00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:36.059
Yeah.

465
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.860
She loves it.

466
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.019
Twisting the knife in a bit, you know?

467
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.079
I think she starts, you know, like baiting them a little bit.

468
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.579
Yeah.

469
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.139
Yeah, she's great.

470
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:47.400
Has she left the show now?

471
00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:48.420
Yeah.

472
00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:54.539
So there's talk of a section 31 show in development with her in it.

473
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.380
I'll just say that is a completely DS9 base show.

474
00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:59.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

475
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.159
No, they love Deep Face and I on this show.

476
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:06.059
Look at these two.

477
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:07.320
Yeah.

478
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:14.940
Yeah, I think the 2 of them bond really well on the trip down to the shuttle and just remember how early this is.

479
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:22.619
You know, we had last week going to Earth and now we've got episode 4 and the 2 of them sort of bond really well.

480
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.920
I think, I think sending her was a good decision.

481
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:31.139
I mean, you needed to give Michael something to do and you don't want to see her bitching with everyone around the dinner table.

482
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:44.519
When I rewatched this, I said to you that this was, for me, this felt like, um, the most DS9, Discovery episode because it was so character focussed.

483
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:51.900
Now, I know there is a lot of character focus in discovery, but it's usually character focus and big weighty arcs as well and lots of action, you know?

484
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.800
Whereas DS9 will have lots of character focussed episodes like this.

485
00:36:55.860 --> 00:37:01.079
The fact that it was a little bit more sedate, you know, the pace of the episode is a bit slower.

486
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.280
Um, and of course it's set on trill as well.

487
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:11.460
So no one, I mean, for me, I think this is this is like a top 5 discovery. this episode.

488
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:12.900
Oh, I think so too.

489
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.039
I think easily.

490
00:37:14.099 --> 00:37:20.940
It's a little bit hard to pick out because of the serialised storytelling and I find it hard sometimes to know which episode we're talking about.

491
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.159
You can't highlight something.

492
00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:25.380
You remember the one where they go back to Saru's home planet?

493
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.880
That's extraordinary.

494
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:27.659
Yep.

495
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:31.139
And the time loop one in series one is pretty incredible.

496
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:32.760
Oh, the Harry Mud one.

497
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.480
Yeah, yeah.

498
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:35.579
Yeah, that was really good.

499
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:36.000
Yeah.

500
00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:37.199
Oh, here we go.

501
00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.960
Oh, we're all getting on.

502
00:37:40.019 --> 00:37:41.940
Yeah, no, Reese gets to smile.

503
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:42.780
That's all he gets to do.

504
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.860
He doesn't get any dialogue.

505
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.820
He's Joe. She gets to say something to Kayla. she's got a line or two.

506
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.219
Honestly, God, I swear she just keeps admitting.

507
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.639
She's a complete filth bag and she froze up a lot and she's drunk a lot.

508
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:55.019
Yeah, she's wonderful.

509
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:55.920
I think she's great.

510
00:37:55.980 --> 00:38:01.019
She has a great line when she comes in afterwards to speak to Saru in what I think is a great scene.

511
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.559
So this is Kayla losing her shit publicly at the dinner table.

512
00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:07.199
There's always someone like this at a party.

513
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:10.019
I'm telling, you know, shitting on everyone else's good time.

514
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:15.119
And this was, this has been right from episode two.

515
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:20.639
I know that's not a long arc, but she was clearly hugely disturbed by the jump into the future.

516
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:27.300
And people were wondering whether, you know, her implant was malfunctioning or what the plot would be.

517
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.079
And I think I remember thinking, I hope it's not space reasons.

518
00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:35.639
I hope she's not, you know, inhabited by an alien entity or something.

519
00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:39.780
I hope she's just really stressed and upset and that's where they went.

520
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.480
And this is like the in series three.

521
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:49.500
This is like the 1st time she's been given any kind of sophisticated characterisation.

522
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:52.139
Thank God because the actress is really good.

523
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:53.639
Yeah, yeah.

524
00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:55.559
Yeah, but you know, she starts...

525
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:57.719
She must have thought in series one, this is a thankless part.

526
00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.880
I'm just on the bridge, you know, doing my bit.

527
00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:00.300
Yeah.

528
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.619
Well, she's a minor role.

529
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:08.460
Like they're virtually scenery, the bridge crew in series one because they wanted it not to be a Star Trek show, I think.

530
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:10.019
You wonder why I was confused.

531
00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:11.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

532
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.460
No, it took me forever. telling me that was the point.

533
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:15.239
That was the point.

534
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:16.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

535
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:19.679
Because Michael wasn't a member of the bridge crew.

536
00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:23.280
She said that act like assholes.

537
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:23.579
Yeah.

538
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:28.800
She says fuck in series one, but now Star Trek won't say fuck.

539
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.320
No, I do.

540
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:40.260
No, because everyone in 90s strike has such a massive stick up their ass. you know, like...

541
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:40.920
Excuse me.

542
00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:42.960
That's where I swears all the time.

543
00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:44.519
There's one episode where I can...

544
00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:45.000
Bl bloody.

545
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:48.539
That's just because Americans don't know what that means.

546
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:55.679
Did you ever see the one episode where they snuck into swear words, but completely under the radar?

547
00:39:55.739 --> 00:39:56.699
Oh really?

548
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.400
It's the Grand Nagas in the 2nd to last episode.

549
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:05.579
And there's like the rain is causing all this fuzzy interference and it just goes, what a fucking mess.

550
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.139
They go.

551
00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:11.940
But if you watch the subtitles. swear words.

552
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.139
Brilliant.

553
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.079
Ah, here we go.

554
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:16.920
Yeah.

555
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:26.039
So, you know, at the same time as the Denny dinner party goes to hell, this goes to hell, you know, like this plot goes to hell at the same, you know, at the same moment in the episode.

556
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.460
And then this very, very quickly.

557
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:37.139
And it is because because of Michael's concern for Adira that they're won over, isn't it?

558
00:40:37.500 --> 00:40:39.059
Absolutely.

559
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:42.719
And I guess Z saying that she's all that we have.

560
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:47.159
I really like I'm kind of jumping down a little bit.

561
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:57.659
I really like the parallel with equilibrium here, where both episodes reveal a massive twist that fundamentally could change trail society.

562
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:09.900
In equilibrium, it's that far more trio, can take symbience than it's known, and that whole initiate program is irrelevant, but they put put people through it just to get the best, the best to have them.

563
00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:13.800
And in this one, it's that other species, isn't it?

564
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:16.260
It can take the trio symbians.

565
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:17.159
Yeah.

566
00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:18.780
So Riker had one once.

567
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.980
But you know how it works.

568
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:21.659
It's your favourite plot resolution.

569
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:38.579
The reason that she can take the trill is because she and Gray are in love and Gray trusts her with his life and eventually he does have to trust her with his life.

570
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.920
Oh, he's the get out moment.

571
00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:53.099
Um, so this is the other thing that, that this version of Star Trek does, that 90s straight doesn't do, which is this commitment to putting just weird and incomprehensible things on screen.

572
00:41:53.219 --> 00:42:04.019
But let's not forget the, you know, the level of technology they have to work with now to realise this is a completely different league to what they have.

573
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:12.840
I think in 90s trek, like we were impressed at the time, but there is a very sort of staid and limited visual grammar, I think.

574
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:15.539
And I think this is controversial.

575
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:21.059
Series one and 2 of Star Trek The Next Generation looks shitty and cheap in lots of ways.

576
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.579
It looks worse than the original series sometimes.

577
00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:27.420
Some of those planetary, you know, studio backdrops.

578
00:42:27.539 --> 00:42:29.219
Yeah, shockingly bad.

579
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:37.860
But it does do weirder looking things than Star Trek does, like Star Trek sort of settles down and looks generally sensible, but is not ambitious.

580
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:45.719
And so here, like, it's clear that these are memories because it's like, synapses, isn't it?

581
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:47.699
It's like, you know, like, yeah.

582
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:54.119
The, and and physical connection, like memory and connection, again, you know, made into a thing.

583
00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:57.179
And for me, I would rather you know me.

584
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:58.800
I can't bear the technobabble.

585
00:42:58.860 --> 00:43:00.539
I can't bear really the technology.

586
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:01.500
I'm not interested in it.

587
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:03.360
I'd rather have this weird stuff going on.

588
00:43:03.420 --> 00:43:07.079
I mean, remember an episode in series one where they had that tardigrade?

589
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.239
Power in the strip.

590
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.739
And I was like, well, I can get going that.

591
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.780
That's a great big monster that's powering the ship.

592
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:16.320
I can, you know, start going on about warp calls and they thought, no, I'll fall asleep.

593
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:16.679
Sorry.

594
00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:19.079
Yeah, no, and that was super weird too.

595
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:22.260
This sort of, yeah, unusual visuals.

596
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:25.559
It's far more appealing to me than hearing, you know, Julie La Forge.

597
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.260
Batter off a load of technobabble about what's happening with her.

598
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:29.099
Yeah.

599
00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:33.480
Yeah, and I think this is amazingly interestingly directed as well.

600
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:41.880
You know, the way that we look across from this space into things in her memories and and the fact that these are not flashbacks at all.

601
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:43.380
These aren't flashbacks.

602
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:44.159
These are memories.

603
00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:45.179
This is happening now.

604
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:46.679
She's remembering it now.

605
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:49.739
And it's shot in a nonnaturalistic way.

606
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:53.880
It is, but this is a very gentle episode of Star Trek.

607
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:58.440
And the visuals are very lovely as well.

608
00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:01.980
You know, it doesn't, it doesn't push that out of that tone, which I went.

609
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:02.579
Oh my word.

610
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:02.940
Okay.

611
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:07.500
So we need to talk about this actor here. is terrific.

612
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:12.480
So this is Ian Alexander, and he has done roles.

613
00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:13.199
He's very young.

614
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:14.099
Both of them are very young.

615
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.400
I think, um, I think Blue is older than he is.

616
00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:21.780
I think that he, I think he's amazing.

617
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:25.619
He has this juice, so vanity.

618
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:32.039
This beautiful boy and he's so serene and...

619
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:37.320
I often struggle with, um, believing Star Trek romances.

620
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:38.880
Like, I like going...

621
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:45.659
I think of another trio romance with Beverly Crusher and, you know, write-up when he had to figure it out.

622
00:44:45.659 --> 00:44:47.820
You're like going, oh, God, what's this nonsense?

623
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:48.960
I don't believe this at all.

624
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:50.280
These two.

625
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:56.039
And the romantic scenes that are coming up are effortlessly believable.

626
00:44:56.099 --> 00:44:57.840
Oh, well, look at the smile.

627
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.960
He's smiling so beautiful.

628
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:03.000
Just so great.

629
00:45:03.059 --> 00:45:06.059
And, you know, I think I'm in love, Nathan.

630
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:12.960
Well, he's a little bit young for me, but he is like, it's these kids.

631
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:18.840
And that's the other thing, you know, like the 2 sort of transactors are young people.

632
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:26.460
And I think there's a sweetness to that, you know, like that, that, that there's a queer family made out of it.

633
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:32.880
We've got the 2 gay men, you know, that's a conception of, I don't know.

634
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:40.500
I just kind of think that you've got 2 gay men, they're 2 gay dads and the 2 kids, really.

635
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:46.320
And there's a real sweetness to that after just such a desert of representation over the years.

636
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.920
Is there a pushback against that, asshole?

637
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:51.659
know No, I don't know either.

638
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:56.280
Like, you know, like, with like, um, Jenny Whitaker's Doctor Who, there's like this whole, you know, it's too woke.

639
00:45:56.340 --> 00:45:58.380
Oh, yes, there is that.

640
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:03.059
I'm almost willing to believe in Star Trek fandom that there's some of that going on.

641
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:03.840
Oh, for sure.

642
00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:14.099
Even before Grey and Adira came along, everyone hated the fact that there was a black woman who was the main character, you know, like there was that, it's the same with Star Wars and Ray, you know.

643
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:15.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

644
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:19.380
Well, the fella, the Stormtrooper, was supposed to have a gay romance, wasn't he?

645
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.280
And then they pushed against that.

646
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:21.300
Yeah, yeah.

647
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.900
There was that big no homo moment in the rise of sky.

648
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:30.960
These moments here where they're sharing like the interests and laughing about it and gently mocking each other.

649
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:34.320
Like, I'm sorry, this is every romance I've ever had right here.

650
00:46:35.340 --> 00:46:40.559
Just the cello, the way the direction foregrounds the cello.

651
00:46:40.619 --> 00:46:42.840
Look at the lighting as well.

652
00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:43.440
Sorry, now.

653
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:43.860
Come on.

654
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.320
You and your dramatic lighting, that's very dramatic.

655
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:52.019
But this show does lighting much, much better than 90 Streke ever did.

656
00:46:52.079 --> 00:47:07.500
And it is, you know, lighting coming in through windows and and bits of the frame being lit, not, you know, Picard sitting alone in the dark room in yesterday's enterprise, wondering where his fucking pen went.

657
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:14.460
You know, like, like this, the lighting here is beautiful and these shots are interesting, you know?

658
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:19.559
I mean, it's like coming in for a window so that, you know, they're showing you the sorts that scene we had in yesterday's Enterprise.

659
00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:21.900
It was just like, well, why the hell doesn't he turn the lights on?

660
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.840
Like, there's no reason for it to be done like this.

661
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:29.639
She just said there, um, I could never do what you did.

662
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:31.980
And the response was bullshit.

663
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:32.519
Yeah.

664
00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:33.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

665
00:47:33.420 --> 00:47:34.800
Now, that's a real relationship.

666
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:43.800
You know, goats, remember that dreadful relationship between Queen Armadillo and Anakin Skywalker and he's like, and I find you're intoxicating.

667
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:48.239
Things have moved on a lot in science fiction romances, you know.

668
00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:49.980
Oh look at this.

669
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:51.420
Bless them.

670
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:53.219
These sweet kids.

671
00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:54.059
Do you know what?

672
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:55.320
This is the worst episode for you and me.

673
00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:57.659
We're both a pair of hugest romantics.

674
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:01.139
Oh.

675
00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:03.119
What's in the boss?

676
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:10.380
The box thing is just heartbreakingly beautiful and terribly sad as well.

677
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:20.760
And this too, where Adira accuses Michael of wanting this to work because it's important to the Federation.

678
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:26.579
And she doesn't deny it because it's the same thing.

679
00:48:26.579 --> 00:48:28.559
It's the connection.

680
00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:31.980
It's her belonging somewhere.

681
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:34.739
None of them have a past either.

682
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:35.940
She doesn't have a past.

683
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.059
The way she recovers her past is this.

684
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:46.320
The way that they find a way to belong in a world where everyone they knows. everyone they know is dead.

685
00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:48.539
You know, he's finding the Federation.

686
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.159
All of its linked.

687
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.480
Sorry, I'm just I'm enjoying the visuals now.

688
00:48:54.539 --> 00:48:55.860
Well, the visuals are so great.

689
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:57.719
So good.

690
00:48:57.780 --> 00:49:00.420
I mean, I mean, we're watching this with the sound down.

691
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.059
I can still, I can understand what's going on.

692
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.000
This is well directed enough that I don't need the words, you know?

693
00:49:06.059 --> 00:49:08.820
Oh, no, I have the subtitles on even when I...

694
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.960
I mean, I do too.

695
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:10.679
Because I'm old.

696
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:13.440
So this is what's in the box.

697
00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:20.219
She's done this sort of needlework. thing that represents their relationship, their time together.

698
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:30.119
You know, they're 2 kids on a starship that have found one another and have fallen in love and they're, you know, these silly memories that they have.

699
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:32.760
And look what happens to that blanket in a minute.

700
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:35.039
Look at what happens to it.

701
00:49:35.099 --> 00:49:36.360
It's incredible.

702
00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:40.920
Oh, it's just the chemistry between them that sold me when I was watching this.

703
00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:42.360
Yeah, yeah.

704
00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:43.079
Yeah.

705
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:46.619
I was like, are these actors in a relationship?

706
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.840
Oh, the little hug.

707
00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:52.440
Oh, God.

708
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:54.360
My word.

709
00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:59.579
Genesis a world apart from that scene between Tom and B'Elana in lineage, isn't it?

710
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:01.320
I was thinking...

711
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:07.260
Oh, oh, that scene where they're smiling and you see the asteroid coming towards them through the window.

712
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:12.059
And we already know that Gray is dead because she has the symbient, right?

713
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:13.800
We saw him getting the symbient.

714
00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:16.440
But Adira has this ambient at the moment.

715
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:22.980
And so we know going in when we see Gray get the thing that he's dead and that that's what she's been avoiding.

716
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:31.260
And this is a good moment to say, because I think you're going to hold it together in this watch.

717
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:37.920
But I know I know for a fact in your previous watches, um, you were in tears watching us, wasn't you?

718
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:38.699
it moves you to tears.

719
00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:44.219
Yeah, both times that I watched it in preparation for this, I was crying from before this moment.

720
00:50:44.280 --> 00:51:00.840
So from pretty much the moment that we 1st see gray, like, and it is just the sweetness of these, like young people in love, that's adorable, and they're so sweet together, and we know what's coming.

721
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:23.579
She, she's wrapping him in the blanket and it gets covered in his blood and, and the fact that it's that relationship that saves him, you know, that thing where, where, I trust you with my life, you know, man, it's so good.

722
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:25.500
I so good.

723
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:42.239
I brought up the tears for a reason, and that is because one of the many things, and you'll get to know us as we do this podcast that Nathan Bottomley has done for me since I've known him, because I refuse to cry at TV before. was to say, you know what?

724
00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:42.780
It's okay.

725
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:43.619
Let yourself go.

726
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:44.039
Cry.

727
00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:45.000
Enjoy TV.

728
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:48.059
Like, And this is very moving.

729
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:49.860
Yeah, I think it is too.

730
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:51.780
And there are other things at the end of it too.

731
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:56.400
It isn't just the death of gray and the sweetness of their relationship.

732
00:51:56.460 --> 00:52:01.440
There are other things coming up, which I didn't tell you about that I cry cried about as well.

733
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:07.019
So this, oh, and this, the music at this moment.

734
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:19.619
So this is the big moment when, you know, she now has her memories back and she meets the circle, like all of the previous hosts and the triumphant music at their appearance.

735
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:23.340
A little bit more diverse than Jadzia's hosts, aren't they?

736
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:35.519
Well, but in, like, they kind of did this in DS9, obviously not within a single scene, they had the scene where every host had to go into one of the regulars and they were all like, no, no, no.

737
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:36.539
It was really well done.

738
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:37.440
I remember it.

739
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:41.280
It gave them all a chance to basically ham it up for an episode, you know?

740
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:43.920
Like, what's his name?

741
00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:47.519
Renee, I played Curzon.

742
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:48.659
Of course he did.

743
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:56.219
And this, you know, it shows though, doesn't it?

744
00:52:56.280 --> 00:53:01.199
It shows that the premise of the trill still has legs in modern day television.

745
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:02.519
Yeah.

746
00:53:02.579 --> 00:53:05.699
Yeah, and they can do something slightly different with it this time.

747
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.440
Like this...

748
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:20.639
You know, Admiral Tal is welcome her into the circle, like, and but he's also been calling the crew of the Discovery to the Federation as well, you know.

749
00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:28.920
So neat to have like such an affecting character drama that pushes the arc on. very gently, you know?

750
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:34.139
Trust me, it's not often as neat as this in this show.

751
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:40.199
I think that this is like, I do think that this is an extremely good episode of discovery.

752
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:45.960
I don't think discovery slows down like this enough.

753
00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:48.300
I think it's very frenetic, this show.

754
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:50.219
Maybe.

755
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:54.119
Well, it wants to be modern and modern TV is set pieces.

756
00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:58.800
It's it's excitement, you know, it's it's keep people interested with new things coming along.

757
00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:03.780
I think this is still more talky than most modern TV perhaps.

758
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:04.679
Yeah.

759
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:06.719
I think that's why I like it.

760
00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:07.619
Yeah.

761
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:13.320
But I mean, I think discovery generally, there's a lot of kind of people talking about their feelings and speech of mine and stuff like that.

762
00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:14.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

763
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:27.000
It's still Star Trek, but you know, it just, it's, it is a bit less stagey because they can afford to just not spend, you know, most of each episode just.

764
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:30.420
Yeah, yeah, they're not just in standing sets talking to one another, you know.

765
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:48.599
But like what used to happen in Voyager. what happened towards the end of 90s trek into the 2000s is that you would have like um, like talkie episodes and they were just shoving an action set pieces every week because that was expected to have the action.

766
00:54:48.659 --> 00:54:52.380
I think I think there's a balance now between action and talk.

767
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:53.820
Yeah.

768
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:58.679
Well, see, I love this moment too, where originally she couldn't give her names.

769
00:54:58.739 --> 00:55:03.119
She couldn't give her names and then she gives her names, you know. lovely.

770
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:07.500
Look at the performers as well, where she's kind of saying, I am a deer at Tao.

771
00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:08.699
Yep.

772
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:17.340
And then bad, you know, now we have the political reunification of the trill and, you know, one... it's all a bit quick, isn't it?

773
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:20.519
Yeah, that's very trek as well, though, isn't it?

774
00:55:20.579 --> 00:55:22.800
Oh, of course, of course.

775
00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:26.400
But the inciting incident is fairly sort of, you know.

776
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:37.320
Well, what I really like is that the woman whose name I've forgotten, the one in charge says, you know, um, like come back and look us up in the future.

777
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.820
Yeah, so I'm hoping we go back here.

778
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.079
Yeah.

779
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:41.579
Yeah, I hope so too.

780
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:46.800
But it is... super pleased that she went back to Discovery.

781
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:49.739
Because when I 1st watched this, I was like, oh, no, this lovely character.

782
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.840
They're gonna write her out and she's so lovely.

783
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.619
And what they did completely surprised me then going forward.

784
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:57.119
I think the 2 characters.

785
00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:58.260
Yeah. wonderful.

786
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.820
That introduction is so well done as well.

787
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:03.900
So good.

788
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:09.179
Is it played like, I can't remember.

789
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:11.940
Is it played like sinister at all, like, like...

790
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:13.679
No, no, no, it's beautiful.

791
00:56:13.739 --> 00:56:15.420
It is really beautiful.

792
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:21.000
So it's just like in her head that having a relationship.

793
00:56:21.059 --> 00:56:22.559
Like, is that how it's played?

794
00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:23.820
like in the future episodes.

795
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.960
Because there's the 2 of them talking, isn't there, in the mess or things like that?

796
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:33.300
They have a fight and and Gray doesn't show up for a while and Adira wonders where he is.

797
00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:42.840
And Gray, Adira tells, um, I think Hugh and Paul or maybe just, maybe just Hugh.

798
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:46.679
I can't remember exactly, tells one of them at least about Gray.

799
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:50.340
Yeah, no, no, Paul and you, I think, both know about Gray.

800
00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:52.559
Yeah, yeah.

801
00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:55.500
And then I won't tell you what happens because you haven't seen the finale.

802
00:56:55.619 --> 00:56:56.460
Okay.

803
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:57.719
I'll watch it.

804
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:02.760
There's telly coming in and given the advice that he needs.

805
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:08.219
Well, and this is nice as well, because Tilly is our normal person.

806
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:12.179
I love how she comes in and says at my place that's just Tuesday night.

807
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:17.760
You know, that's why we do this every day. captain at some point.

808
00:57:18.059 --> 00:57:20.219
No, sort of.

809
00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.739
There's a sort of Captain Tilly thing happening.

810
00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:31.380
She's she's a captain in the mirror universe and has to pretend to be Captain Tilly in the mirror universe.

811
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:34.380
Oh, I remember, she's in a ridiculous costume.

812
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:36.239
Oh, yeah, with the tits out and stuff.

813
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.619
Tubing it up terribly.

814
00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:38.460
Yeah, yeah, wonderful.

815
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:39.780
They always do in the mirror.

816
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.199
Yeah.

817
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:40.619
Yeah.

818
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:43.920
But this is really nice as well.

819
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:47.039
Paul is made to apologise because he was a bit of a prick.

820
00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:49.320
And she kind of makes him apologise.

821
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:55.260
I don't know how she gives Saru advice.

822
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:56.400
You know, he's the captain.

823
00:57:56.519 --> 00:58:06.840
And this is the, you know, it's hard to imagine, you know, that happening in any other show. you know, like, but she does it by just having a conversation.

824
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.679
What would happen in 90s trek is you'd have Chewbok.

825
00:58:10.739 --> 00:58:21.059
I don't know, doing a Vulcan orchid and saying, well, the metaphor here is, is that if you take this leaf here and that leaf there, you put them together and there's our plot 2 points.

826
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

827
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:24.000
It makes some dreadful analogy like that.

828
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:26.099
The 2 of them are quite good.

829
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:38.340
They have a, like, moments together in episode 2 of this series, and here we go, bookending from his opening scene where, and it's all a little bit obvious, you know, but it's nice to hear it said.

830
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.239
No, she's not okay.

831
00:58:39.300 --> 00:58:45.960
I mean, I am going to say, though, yeah, um, this is how little I've connected with somebody, I don't know some of their names.

832
00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:47.820
What's this woman's name here?

833
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:49.380
Kayla Detmer.

834
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:49.860
Thank you.

835
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:50.579
I don't know.

836
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:51.780
I can't remember her name.

837
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:53.579
Yeah, she was on the show.

838
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:54.480
She's in the 1st episode.

839
00:58:54.539 --> 00:58:55.440
Yeah.

840
00:58:55.860 --> 00:59:01.440
I was just wondering if maybe if Eric Sward had written this and they weren't given names.

841
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:03.300
No, they all have names.

842
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:09.960
I think Pike make sure that we're introduced to them all in an early episode of series two.

843
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:12.239
Oh, just in case you've forgotten.

844
00:59:12.300 --> 00:59:13.920
Just in case you think...

845
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:20.639
Where do we where do we go from here then?

846
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:25.019
So, so, so we do find the Federation fairly soon.

847
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:26.940
In fact, maybe next episode.

848
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.619
Yeah, not very nice, are they?

849
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:30.119
It's like that hot grey-headed man.

850
00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:32.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

851
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:34.440
But we grow to love him. so it's a thing.

852
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.739
I love there we go.

853
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:43.320
There's um, uh, cousin Michelle taking um, some popcorn off Linus.

854
00:59:43.380 --> 00:59:45.059
What's a liner?

855
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.420
So I was about to say...

856
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:50.699
So, saurians are in original track.

857
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.840
They're from original track.

858
00:59:51.900 --> 00:59:53.460
I think he's a really funny character.

859
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:55.619
I don't think they look like that in the original track, did they?

860
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.119
No, no.

861
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:20.400
So this is one of the things that I had a little cry about, and it's ridiculous, but the way that Stammet comes up to Kayla, and they just hug without saying anything, and it's not Kayla doesn't get kind of forced to apologise, or, you know, he doesn't talk about how much it hurt him or anything like that.

862
01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:23.159
It was just pure forgiveness.

863
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:29.340
And if this was not his trek, that absolutely would have happened that would be a dialogue scene now, wouldn't there?

864
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:31.199
I just love that so much.

865
01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:46.739
I just, that idea of just these people reconnecting, in spite of the fact that they've been stressed and horrible to one another, and maybe I'm watching this a few weeks after a sort of long isolated lockdown, and that probably didn't help.

866
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:52.320
But the idea of just that reconnection, that effortless reconnection, I think, is beautiful.

867
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:59.039
I think sometimes when you watch something, uh, completely informs your reaction to it as well.

868
01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:04.320
Although quickly going back to, you know, you said how they didn't have to talk about it, there was one example in 90s trailer.

869
01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:14.219
I just want to very quickly say in, when you know, when Kira and Odo fall out during the Dominion War arc, and then you're like, oh, no, they're going to have this awful episode where, you know, the 2 of them come back together.

870
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:18.059
And then Jadzir has her wedding episode and the pair of them end up in a cupboard drunk.

871
01:01:18.659 --> 01:01:22.619
And then in the morning, they come out the cupboard and it's all sorted.

872
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.739
Oh, brilliant. not making us watch that.

873
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:28.860
There's no one again. awesome.

874
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:30.059
Ahead of its time.

875
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:30.960
Yeah.

876
01:01:31.380 --> 01:01:33.239
That's brilliant.

877
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:34.980
Oh, this scene as well.

878
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:35.579
Oh my.

879
01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:38.760
Okay, look at the lighting in this scene.

880
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:40.260
It's really stunning.

881
01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:51.780
Yeah, well, the way that they light through the windows, I think, is it's something that David Carson does in generations that we talked about it when we were doing yesterday's Enterprise, I think, in our 1st episode.

882
01:01:51.840 --> 01:02:05.340
I can remember an episode of DS9 when I go back to when the station is next to Bajor, in series 6 and they've got lights streaming through the windows, just like this.

883
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:05.820
Right.

884
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:08.639
And I'm like, oh, man, we can do that all the time.

885
01:02:08.699 --> 01:02:10.440
We'll be good about this all along.

886
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:20.880
So, um, Michael leaves and says you'll start to get their memories back in time, no doubt.

887
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:25.619
And then I think, do we hear Gray's voice before we see him?

888
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:27.420
Yes, we do.

889
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:34.619
He delivers the line out of view and the camera swings around and there he is and he's criticising her bowie.

890
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:36.599
And she's laughing about it.

891
01:02:36.659 --> 01:02:37.500
Man, this is so real.

892
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:38.340
This is so real.

893
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:39.659
It's lovely.

894
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:41.460
Look at him.

895
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:47.699
Yeah, no, these 2 make me happy all season.

896
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:51.239
See, I think I think we could probably have more of these two.

897
01:02:51.300 --> 01:02:52.559
Yeah, yeah.

898
01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:53.280
Yeah.

899
01:02:53.340 --> 01:03:06.360
Yeah, I missed Gray for the episodes that he was absent in the middle of the season and I don't know whether it was act as an availability or what it was, but they have a fight and he doesn't show up for a bit.

900
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:08.400
And this, look at that.

901
01:03:11.460 --> 01:03:12.480
The smile.

902
01:03:12.539 --> 01:03:15.960
Like, we've we've mentioned a lot of beautiful imagery.

903
01:03:16.019 --> 01:03:19.619
It goes out with the most beautiful imagery of the episode.

904
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:26.940
And uh, the lullaby that they're playing is a plot point and we'll come up again.

905
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.340
So, uh, and you know what?

906
01:03:29.340 --> 01:03:30.360
It's very strange.

907
01:03:30.420 --> 01:03:37.260
Sometimes, um, See, I watched this on my own, and I found it very, very big.

908
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:40.860
But weirdly enough, as a shared experience, I found that more moving.

909
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:44.039
It's, I think it's beautiful.

910
01:03:44.099 --> 01:03:46.019
It is really, really good.

911
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:56.460
And I think, you know, the other thing that, that, that this has over 90 Star Trek is just, it's a, it's more sophisticated storytelling.

912
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:59.340
The dialogue is generally better.

913
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:02.099
And it's beautiful.

914
01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:03.960
Gosh it's a beautiful looking show.

915
01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:05.940
Hello, that was such a good episode.

916
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:10.800
I'm not going to contradict anything of what you just said there, but I have many things to say off camera, right?

917
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:19.860
But I will say, I think I, this year before, I think this is a fairly atypical discovery episode.

918
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.579
Um But it is stunningly good.

919
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:25.079
It's a great piece of drama.

920
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:29.159
Yeah, no, we were lucky to get this for our 1st discovery, I think.

921
01:04:29.219 --> 01:04:30.360
Oh, really?

922
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:32.340
I'm only one of their shitters.

923
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:34.199
I could have still defended that.

924
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:46.559
All right, so you and I have made a decision about which series we're going to cover next episode.

925
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.440
We have, yes.

926
01:04:49.500 --> 01:04:50.940
For a couple of reasons.

927
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:59.699
I think, um, I think there's quite a lot of original series fans out there when it comes to Star Trek.

928
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:06.480
And secondly, our fantastic artwork that has been delivered this week very much leans into the original series.

929
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:07.619
It does.

930
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:09.059
Space Lincoln.

931
01:05:10.739 --> 01:05:13.199
I got a tribble on my shoulder.

932
01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:18.719
Can I just say for a moment, Kayla, you made me extremely well muscled within that.

933
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:20.940
Next generation uniform.

934
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:21.539
Thank you very much.

935
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:23.099
Yeah, no, you're poured into that.

936
01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:29.579
So we're doing an episode of Star Trek, the original series, and that's all.

937
01:05:29.699 --> 01:05:36.900
And I think when it comes to the original series, you know, I think we're both, we're not too knowledgable, are we?

938
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:43.980
I couldn't put my hand on my heart and swear that I've seen every episode, but I have seen a lot of it.

939
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:47.159
And some of it I've seen a whole bunch of times.

940
01:05:47.219 --> 01:05:49.440
So it sort of varies, I think.

941
01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:56.880
I usually get to the episode where Kirk could split into 2 and then it goes off to do unspeakable things to old Janice.

942
01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:57.360
What's her name?

943
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:01.260
and then I turn it off then and say, well, okay, this clearly was made in a different time.

944
01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:08.159
But I am my finger is hovering over the button.

945
01:06:08.219 --> 01:06:18.480
Okay, so you're at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser where the randomiser can be found for all your random Star Trek needs.

946
01:06:19.019 --> 01:06:21.480
Okay, I want you to press a button.

947
01:06:21.539 --> 01:06:22.619
Doing it.

948
01:06:23.699 --> 01:06:26.099
Oh, I don't know what that is.

949
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:29.400
The ultimate computer.

950
01:06:29.460 --> 01:06:32.579
Oh, other than that one.

951
01:06:32.820 --> 01:06:34.380
Do you know what?

952
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:36.059
Ain't fun if I don't do it at least 3 times.

953
01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:37.380
Okay, all right.

954
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:38.159
Let's make that the rule.

955
01:06:38.219 --> 01:06:39.599
Oh no, no, no.

956
01:06:39.659 --> 01:06:40.980
Okay, it's got to be this one.

957
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:44.699
This episode has the best score of any TOS.

958
01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.400
The Corbamite maneuver.

959
01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:48.480
Oh, okay.

960
01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:49.320
Yep, absolutely.

961
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:50.099
I'm okay.

962
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:51.900
And the music goes, duh.

963
01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:57.539
It's so, oh, it's fabulous.

964
01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:07.440
And it's got this great big yellow sphere that and at the end there's some weird twist about this child man who's behind a fabulous episode.

965
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:09.000
Yes, yes.

966
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:10.079
It's a very famous episode.

967
01:07:10.139 --> 01:07:10.739
Okay.

968
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:11.159
All right.

969
01:07:11.219 --> 01:07:12.420
The Corba might maneuver.

970
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:14.099
So that's what we'll be doing next time.

971
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:15.360
Oh wait.

972
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:27.900
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

973
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:35.099
You can find us online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

974
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:39.900
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

975
01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:46.619
This episode was recorded on the 27th of October 2021 and released on the 26th of November.

976
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:51.780
We'll see you next time for the original series, The Corbamite maneuver.