WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:10:33

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're in series 4 of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and this

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is, for me, I think, one of my favourite eras of the show, because

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this is really what started me on Star Trek years ago.

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I saw series one, you know, when it was released on VHS for the

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home video market.

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But it was when series 4 hit, we started to see episodes from

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series 4 and I was absolutely sold.

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And I'm like looking down the list here.

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Last week was Data's Day, which, yeah, and that makes sense of the

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early scene with O'Brien and Keiko in this episode.

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Day, you know, Nathan is Dr. Bev's finest hour when she has to see

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where she teaches him how to dance, you know?

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Can I just say it?

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This episode that we're going to be talking about very quickly.

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Dr. Bev does not feature in it at all.

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It's the only episode that she's not in outside of obviously

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season two, and may I say it is all the better for our absence.

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I didn't miss her, to be honest.

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But I will be I will be talking about Deanna being criminally

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underused in this.

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But I'm just looking down the list.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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She gets one really good moment, which I'll point out.

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But things like devil's due, which is like terribly silly, but

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really, really great.

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Clues was the 1st episode of series 4 that I ever saw and I was

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astonished.

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Well, it's business as usual, but it's just well done, you know?

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You shouldn't go back to that one though.

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I've watched that one Fairly recently.

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It's really static, though, on my gypsosis.

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So they all this.

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But I mean, things like reunion and legacy.

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Remember me is one of my absolute favourites.

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I think it's stunning. amazing.

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Reunion, the K-Los death is astonishing.

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That's proper sort of pre-deep space nine, isn't it?

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That's really where we decide to go with Deep Space Night.

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But, you know, family, God, the drumhead with jeans.

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Family is amazing.

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The drum hat is astonishingly good.

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I tell you what.

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Actually, in all these episodes that you're mentioning, it's the

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character work that's immediately standing out to me, it's the

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pillar effect, you know?

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Yeah, but I also think that they do a better job of doing our

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science fiction thing every episode that works.

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I think the characters are starting to work together.

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Yeah, you remember him, remember me when you...

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Yeah, like it's...

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Dr. Beverly.

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Well, Dr. Beverly, it's only you and me in the entire universe.

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You know that's...

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It's just normal.

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It's really good.

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I haven't even mentioned 1st contact, which again is just

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astonishingly great.

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That's amazing.

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Yeah, like Strange New Worlds, episode one draws on it.

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Like, it's absolutely classic.

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Isn't Redemption the finale as well.

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And I think the 1st half of redemption is very good.

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It's as Shakespearean as the next generation ever gets.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, well, apart from Menage, Troy.

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Even that's pretty fun.

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No, it's terrible.

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But like you and I, you and I have had some pretty mixed things to

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say about the TNG episodes that we've watched and actually we've

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probably aired towards being quite critical, but 3 to 6, those

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seasons, the bat and average is pretty damn high, isn't it?

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And this is where sort of 90s trek really came to life and this is

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what people remember as like the golden era of 90s trek.

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Exactly right.

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If we hadn't had these seasons.

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These excellent seasons 3 to 6.

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We just wouldn't have had Deep Soce 9 or Voyager or Enterprise

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probably, but...

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No Enterprise?

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Oh, my God, honestly. hard to imagine.

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Let's not think about a universe where that exists.

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But you've been doing even more research than usual, I think, about

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this episode.

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Is that right?

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I have.

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Well, I went into a charity shop the other day.

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I was pulled in by my other up and I thought, well, I'm not going

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to find anything good in there.

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And lo and behold, I came across, essentially, what is like a

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horror book for me.

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It's Star Trek science logs by Andre Bormanis.

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I was like, what is this?

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They've written a book about the technobabble of Star Trek.

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So I opened it up and actually, so what it is, is, um, it's lots

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of episodes across 90s trek where they put in like the captain's

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lock to set the scene of whatever the episode or the science

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premise is.

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And then it's essentially knuckling down the ridiculous

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technobabble, which I normally nod my way through and assume, you

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know, they know what they're talking about. to a five-year-old's

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level, which is perfect for me when it comes to size.

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I've got a double D for science.

104
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So, you know, this is sort of level on that.

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And the episode today that we're talking about is the wounded and

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I was delighted to see there was an entire page devoted to the

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wounded.

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Although I don't remember any science in this at all.

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It's actually about the Cardassians.

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Oh okay.

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And I would like to regale you now with a small passage to show

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you just how thoughtful and insightful this text actually is.

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Are you ready?

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I'm ready.

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Let's say, this is amazing.

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Cardassians are part of a long line of Star Trek villains.

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They are loosely modelled on Nazi armies of World War II, ruthless

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and militaristic, bent on conquering the entire galaxy, and then

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it goes on to like 2 paragraphs explaining what they look like.

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They are probably cold-blooded in addition to their generally

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reptilian appearance.

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We've made several references to their inability to tolerate cold

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temperatures, blah, blah, blah.

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Don't tell you nothing in it.

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This book is absolute nonsense.

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I'm telling you.

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But there is a fascinating excerpts on Cubics and, you know

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Janeway turning into a reptilian, in threshold, explains the

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science of masks and how their DNA is reversed.

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I mean this is a treasure, this book.

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So as we go through this thing, Nathan.

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I shall be regaling you with Andre Bormanis's unique take.

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He has some pedigree because he was the science consultant on

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season 7 of the next generation and wrote, are you ready for

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this?

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He wrote such gems as riddles and demon and human era from Voyager

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all absolute clangors, but even more importantly, was responsible

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for about half the output of series one and 2 events prize.

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Oh my goodness.

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Well, that is a pedigree.

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Yeah, that's very impressive.

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And I think it's just worth mentioning that book because I can

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tell you, there is an entire library out there, our books

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discussing the length and breadth of Star Trek way beyond memory

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alpha, you know.

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It's a Klingon version of Hamlet out there.

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I am.

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I once had the Klingon dictionary and it came with a tape of

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Klingon phrases with with Michael Dawn, you know, introducing it

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and stuff and then someone broke into my car and stole it.

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So I hope that they enjoyed the book and the tape.

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And my stereo, that one.

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He's going to have some valuable stuff in here.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Coupla.

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That person now can read Klingon, and I'm sure their life is more

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richer for it.

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I'm sure it is.

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Nathan, I got a feeling you're not as keen on the wounded as I

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am.

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I actually think it is really good, and I can see why we liked it

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but watching it made some of its flaws obvious.

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I think I think there is a problem with the script that I'm trying

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to pin down, but and we'll see if I get there while we're watching

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it now.

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But I do think that this is one of those episodes that relies

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enormously heavily on a guest star.

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Um, you know, like the drumhead will later in the in the season.

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And I think this guest star is not very good.

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And I think he needed to be better because he's the centrepiece of

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the story.

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And in a way, the episode is structured around him.

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And, of course, around similar kinds of things that have happened

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to O'Brien as well.

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And because he never really sells it.

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Like, he just comes across as a sort of asshole, really.

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And not as one of the wounded, which is what the title promises.

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And so I think that he wrecks it a bit.

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The script offers him quite a lot.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Do you remember the DS92 parts of the marquee, the 1st introduced

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the marquee?

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Yeah, really kind of rich script and beautifully acted by

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everybody except Cal Hudson, who is Cisco's best friend and the

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head of the market and he's Bernie Casey and he's super wooden.

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And it's a real blemish on this fantas- and I didn't think he was

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terrible, but compared to the other acting that was going on there

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which is blown out of the water.

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And you know what?

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It's a fucking relief to finally watch an episode with Colt Meaney

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not being possessed, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Actually, seeing him doing some acting.

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This is kind of his 1st big role.

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And so he had day to day the previous week, which is him getting

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married to Keiko.

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And so I'm not sure this episode opens.

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Does it open with them having breakfast, but there's a scene with

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them having breakfast early on.

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And he is very good and you can see them trying him out.

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Like it's, if he was available, you know, spinning him off and

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giving him a regular position on Deep Space 9 was the right thing

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to do.

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Because like he'd done movies and stuff.

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He's a proper actor.

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But you know, you know, in that 1st scene, Okay, well, which

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obviously we'll get to in a minute.

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But in that 1st scene, I thought, uh, where they're having dinner

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and he talks about his family and making food and all of this.

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And I thought to myself, we're learning more about O'Brien in this

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single scene than I know about half the TNG crew in 70s.

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So this bloody show.

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So they clearly saw an actor that was giving a lot to very little

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and decided to just give him more and more.

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And then he transferred off onto a show where they could

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absolutely flourish that character and give him a lot of debt.

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That's right.

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It's actually strange how weird it is to have a whole scene on

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Star Trek the Next Generation, which is not like guest aliens or

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whatever, and doesn't have anyone whose name is in the opening

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credits in it.

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And, you know, it's almost like that was kind of the way the show

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worked.

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There always had to be one of our regulars involved in what was

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going on at all times.

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And so like making him a big deal.

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And he'd been in it since Encounter at FarPoint.

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You know, he didn't have a name or whatever back then, but, you

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know, he has been in it off and on.

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And so it is nice to see him, you know, them developing some of

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the other characters.

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And, um, just briefly before we go in as well.

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I said to you, off mic that, a lot of what I liked about this

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episode was off screen.

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And that's not to kind of, at any rate, what is on screen.

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But this is setting up a whole empire that then DS9 takes hold of

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and it's a massive game changer for like the Alpha Quadrant, the

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Cardassians.

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This isn't like your one shot.

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This isn't the Beaumar of Voyager.

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They saw the potential here and they absolutely run with it, don't

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they?

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Like in the last episode of DS9, half that episode is set on

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Cardassia Prime.

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Like that planet's a big player come sort of the end of 90s

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straight.

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And so I think whilst it's not at its best here, sort of setting

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up this Machiavellian Empire, that's up to no good in the quadrant

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00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.799
and it's building forces and, you know, always threatening war to

250
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:11.460
the Federation.

251
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:13.620
It's doing some good stuff here.

252
00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.299
I'm going to talk a little bit at some point about how this is a

253
00:12:18.299 --> 00:12:21.779
different way of conceiving in alien enemy, so the Klingons in

254
00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:26.340
Star Trek were very definitely, you know, our adversaries in a

255
00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:30.419
cold war, and the Cardassians end up being something a little bit

256
00:12:30.419 --> 00:12:32.279
more up to date than that.

257
00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:37.860
And I think, you know, there's some grounds for thinking of them

258
00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:45.240
as the Nazis and, uh, you know, that sort of cruelty and racism

259
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:45.840
and things.

260
00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:49.740
But there is also something, something about occupying being

261
00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:55.259
foreign occupiers of someone else's territory, which seems very

262
00:12:55.259 --> 00:13:01.379
real and relevant and becomes the basis of Deep Space 9, but is

263
00:13:01.379 --> 00:13:06.720
developed in Star Trek, the Next Generation before, um, before the

264
00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:07.860
spinoff starts.

265
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.399
And I think that's a much, much more interesting conception.

266
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.620
Because even when the Romulans come along, they're basically the

267
00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:14.580
Russians, aren't they?

268
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.740
And so having them.

269
00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:18.059
They're also off screen, aren't they?

270
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:20.340
They're always doing something that we don't really see.

271
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:21.419
Yeah.

272
00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:23.340
So I think this is really interesting.

273
00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:26.039
I mean, they help themselves to a recent war, which we have never

274
00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:29.879
heard of before, but like, who cares, whatever, and it turns out

275
00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:33.120
to be one of the best things that Star Trek the Next Generation

276
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:37.139
does for the, for that, the sort of universe that Star Trek takes

277
00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:38.279
place, I think.

278
00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:41.279
And the other thing, this episode does.

279
00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:43.019
I'm not sure if it's his very 1st episode.

280
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.740
I think it is.

281
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:48.720
It introduces Mark Alamo to the Star Trek universe.

282
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:53.340
I know he plays a bro again in TNG, and he plays other Kardassians

283
00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:54.419
I think, in TNG as well.

284
00:13:54.480 --> 00:14:00.360
But the Cardassians could be very black and white, like you say

285
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:05.759
they could be the Nazis of the Star Trek universe, but Elmo is so

286
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:07.019
fucking charming.

287
00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:11.460
And, you know, he's horrible and he does terrible things and all

288
00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:11.820
of that.

289
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:13.440
But why is he watchable?

290
00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:15.779
Like, you want him to be on screen all the time.

291
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.980
I think he's really, really particularly good in this.

292
00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.519
Um, So apparently, I'm just checking here.

293
00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:28.980
He's done 4 Star Trek, the Next Generations and he actually, he's

294
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:31.080
in the neutral zone.

295
00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:34.559
He's the main Romulan, I think, who appears on the screen in the

296
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:35.159
neutral zone.

297
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:37.559
You can't mistake his voice, Nathan, honestly.

298
00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:42.659
And he's one of the dog, weird ass dog aliens in Lonely Among Us.

299
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.360
Remember it's the fish aliens and the dog aliens.

300
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:46.080
Yeah.

301
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:50.399
Yeah, the Soleil or whatever they are.

302
00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:50.879
That's right.

303
00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:51.720
I love it.

304
00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:53.100
So he's one of them.

305
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.460
So that's pretty awesome.

306
00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:58.259
But, hey, do you know who he is?

307
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:02.220
I recognise he's the one who goes up to Tashiara and goes, It was

308
00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:05.039
a very tasty meal, Lieutenant.

309
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:08.399
Because I've been given live food on the enterprise, live

310
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:08.820
animals.

311
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.279
So great.

312
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.860
Well, speaking of which, we're about to hear Chief O'Brien talking

313
00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:21.899
about eating real meat to the cake.

314
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.580
Should we should we get going?

315
00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:25.980
We probably should, yeah.

316
00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:28.500
Okay, so here we go.

317
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:34.500
Five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

318
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.059
Okay, exterior enterprise.

319
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

320
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.159
So I think I'm watching the version with the updated HD special

321
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:44.879
effects.

322
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:48.720
So it looks more like a computer generated thing than a normal

323
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:49.200
model.

324
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:53.340
I don't think there's many special effects in this episode.

325
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.220
There's a lot of close-ups, but not many special effects.

326
00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:59.639
Is there something off about Patrick Stewart's voice in this

327
00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:00.120
episode?

328
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:01.679
I don't know.

329
00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.100
I think he's actually, I think he's really good in this episode

330
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:09.120
although this scene is pretty shitty, and it is that sort of scene

331
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.340
you know, where Picard talks.

332
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:13.799
So we're running away and Dan is going, oh, that's hard to

333
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:14.100
believe.

334
00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:17.639
And you just kind of think, we've seen them together on Nepenthe

335
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.539
and that was a really properly good relationship and this is as

336
00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:24.480
crap is like it's them sucking up to their boss.

337
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:27.059
Their boss tells them a really boring story.

338
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.100
No, for embarrassing.

339
00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:32.820
There are some high grade sucking up to the boss in this from

340
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:33.840
O'Brien, right?

341
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.179
Someone even system you got.

342
00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:37.980
You got a silver tongue, O'Brien.

343
00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:39.360
Yuck.

344
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:43.139
His punk is up Cisco's arse all the time, honestly, for out that

345
00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:43.379
run.

346
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.539
Not a bad place to be, you know.

347
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.120
Well, okay.

348
00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:51.960
So moving along very quickly.

349
00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:56.340
We're getting some valuable background here about, oh, no, here we

350
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:56.519
go.

351
00:16:56.580 --> 00:16:57.059
Thank God.

352
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:58.919
Here's Keiko and...

353
00:16:58.919 --> 00:16:59.399
I'm sorry.

354
00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:03.480
I love all cuisines, but that looks ghoulish what's on that

355
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:03.960
plate.

356
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.799
Kelp buds, plankton leaf.

357
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:15.000
So, I, hmm, so when I came home for dinner tonight, there were a

358
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:20.940
lot of very small crabs that had been cooked in a dish and that

359
00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:26.819
was dinner and I was feeling a bit like Miles O'Brien does now

360
00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:30.960
like, can't we have some beef or lamb or something that I don't

361
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:35.039
have to perform a series of autopsies on in order to get small

362
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:36.359
amounts of meat out of them.

363
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:39.960
So I really understand how this works.

364
00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:42.180
Astonishingly delicious Asian food.

365
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.819
What she's put in front of him there does not look delicious to

366
00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:45.000
me.

367
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:48.960
Japanese food, like with seaweed and stuff like that, I really

368
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.500
quite like.

369
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:51.839
I'm sort of totally on board with that.

370
00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:53.819
So I think that...

371
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:54.480
Kiko though.

372
00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:57.059
He wants to shove a load of, you know, meat loaf and mashed

373
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:58.380
potatoes down his throat.

374
00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:02.940
I love her reaction to that where she goes, actually, that's kind

375
00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:03.240
of heavy.

376
00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:04.799
I think that works really well.

377
00:18:04.859 --> 00:18:06.119
That's really great.

378
00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:09.839
And reminding us too that we don't kill animals for food in the

379
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.119
24th century anymore, which I think is pretty great.

380
00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:14.880
Oh, bar, okay, can I say it?

381
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:17.880
Because one of the things that my other I've always says when he's

382
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.940
criticising Star Trek, it's like, yeah, he goes, oh, you know, what

383
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:24.359
is this old-fashioned 20th century earth food, right?

384
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.640
scenes like that.

385
00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:28.920
Well, I started watching this the other night and he's there in

386
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:30.720
the doorway with his fucking eyebrow arched.

387
00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:34.500
I was like, it's off, because she's going, she's going.

388
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.740
Oh, you actually handled real animals and prepared.

389
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:39.660
I was like, oh, God.

390
00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:41.880
You are right.

391
00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:44.160
There is, I think there's some very good dialogue in this.

392
00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:46.200
There's a couple of lines which I think really hit.

393
00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:51.720
But the overall shape of the language in 90s trick is a little bit

394
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:52.259
awkward.

395
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.299
Like people don't talk like this.

396
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:55.259
No.

397
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:57.000
No, there's space people.

398
00:18:57.059 --> 00:19:01.440
But there is something else going on here too, which is that this

399
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:06.960
tries to differentiate itself from Star Trek, the next Star Trek

400
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.140
the original series, by having a level of formality in the

401
00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:16.440
language and by also everyone being a little bit karma, right?

402
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:19.019
And so and so it ends up...

403
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.099
Which sometimes I quite like.

404
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:20.880
Yeah, yeah.

405
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.779
Sometimes when the dialogue is intelligent, that really works and

406
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:26.579
it really stands out from TOS.

407
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.319
You know, they're creating a future where everyone is much more

408
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.539
into diplomacy and negotiation.

409
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.880
People want to work for peace.

410
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:38.940
That's what Picard is doing in this episode.

411
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.200
And so it does.

412
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.480
That is the best thing about this episode.

413
00:19:42.539 --> 00:19:45.299
Him pushing back from a potential war.

414
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.900
And they do it a few times in the next generation where, you know

415
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:51.960
like, oh, we need to try and avert a war with whoever it is this

416
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:52.200
week.

417
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.420
Oh my god.

418
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.720
Can I just say the Cardassians have appeared on the screen now?

419
00:19:57.779 --> 00:20:01.259
There were a few revisions in the makeup, you know, before they

420
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:02.099
were regulars.

421
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.640
Yeah, so the makeup here is ridiculously over the top and he's got

422
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:07.019
a stupid Beaumont hat.

423
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.920
He's around about .46 on the Beaumar scale, I think.

424
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:12.420
Yeah, .46.

425
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.000
I'll double that and say 0.82.

426
00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:19.619
I think he's the only other alien we've seen so far that's got a

427
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:20.400
coat hanger around his head.

428
00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:22.140
Yeah, it is a bit crap.

429
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.579
It's sort of like a leather.

430
00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:25.740
Fetish cohanger, isn't it?

431
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.480
Because they're super evil.

432
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:31.619
So then they, you know, they're very into S&M. maybe that's it.

433
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:38.039
They're not gray as well, which is what we land on their brown.

434
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:42.119
I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve with that thing around

435
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:44.880
its head because it doesn't seem to have any function apart from

436
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:45.839
being purely decorative.

437
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:49.380
Yeah, it is very strange, but I guess it's trying to make him look

438
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:49.920
alien.

439
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:52.319
And he's very static here.

440
00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:54.059
This is not the performance he ends up with.

441
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:59.759
You know, Jakart is more animated than him, but this, I think he's

442
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.599
really, really properly good in this in a really interesting way.

443
00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:12.960
Because Picard is determined to, because Picard knows that, um, you

444
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.640
know, Maxwell is posing a threat to Cardassians and is breaking

445
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:18.779
the treaty.

446
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.960
He has to bend over backwards to ensure that he is completely

447
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:22.799
honest.

448
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:23.640
Yeah.

449
00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:27.420
Like politeness when he really just wants to say I fucking hate

450
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:27.660
you.

451
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:31.200
Patrick Stewart plays out brilliantly as well.

452
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:34.559
Yeah, but I think I think that, you know, like maybe he doesn't

453
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:38.759
like him, but, you know, like, I don't think he's unlikeable.

454
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:42.660
Like, I don't think that...

455
00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:45.960
No, but like he doesn't come on board and throw his weight

456
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:46.319
around.

457
00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:49.559
He's not a dick. you know, like he's all of the things he says are

458
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:50.579
quite reasonable.

459
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:55.440
I think, you know, his demands are reasonable and that's what's

460
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:56.400
interesting about it.

461
00:21:56.460 --> 00:22:01.079
But in order to make the twist at the end work is he's got to play

462
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:06.599
that role in a way where both, you know, are they up to no good or

463
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.519
are they genuinely very innocent?

464
00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:09.720
And he does that.

465
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:11.519
He plays that ambiguity really well.

466
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.900
Because I never know whether to trust him, but I'm always charmed

467
00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:16.380
by him.

468
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.039
I, like, I'm, I, I think there's a double twist, isn't there?

469
00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:23.160
One is that you can't trust him because he does seem completely

470
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.519
reasonable and he plays it very calm and he isn't a villain.

471
00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:27.720
One is that you can't trust him.

472
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.660
And the other twist is, of course, that Picard knew that all along

473
00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:36.660
that he was still doing this, even though he knew that Maxwell's

474
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:37.559
claims were true.

475
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:42.180
And I think that's really properly interesting, and it is a

476
00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:49.200
determination to uphold peace, even if it comes at some personal

477
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:50.940
cost.

478
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:52.980
More than that, wonderful scene, isn't it?

479
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.779
Right in the heart of the episode.

480
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.539
And I thought that was one of the best things where Picard has to

481
00:22:57.539 --> 00:23:03.539
decide whether to give the location to the Cardassians and even

482
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.819
Waters, you know, what the hell are you doing, you know?

483
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.880
And at that point, you never, you don't know what really what's

484
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:09.359
going to happen.

485
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:10.799
Is Maxwell going to shoot on them?

486
00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:11.819
Are they going to shoot on him?

487
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:13.619
Picard doesn't know the answers to that.

488
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:18.119
But the thought of not giving that information and going to war is

489
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:18.720
it terrifies.

490
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:19.799
So, yeah, so he does it.

491
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:24.779
He needs to look not just like he's, you know, adhering to the

492
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:29.099
terms of the treaty because Maxwell's broken them already.

493
00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:35.579
He has to be as conciliatory as possible, and he absolutely has to

494
00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:39.240
make sure that Maxwell doesn't kill any Cardassians.

495
00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:44.819
And the way that Marcolemo plays it, where, um, you know, when

496
00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:53.220
that 600 and 50 Cardassians are killed, I think is almost, I think

497
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:58.200
I think we'll get there because, you know, that's all, uh, him

498
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.839
narrating a space invaders game on the screen.

499
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:04.380
Has Admiral Nachea been introduced in this series, yeah, because I

500
00:24:04.380 --> 00:24:07.859
don't like this series of sort of non-plus admirals.

501
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.460
I think he's in the drum head...

502
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.000
I think.

503
00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:16.980
What you said earlier about the guest performer in this kind of

504
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:17.940
bombing, it seems.

505
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.359
Yeah.

506
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:21.480
Like, it would, could you imagine the drumhead if they didn't have

507
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:22.319
Gene Simmons?

508
00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:23.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

509
00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:28.200
In fact, it's Gene Simmons' slightly weird performance where I

510
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.319
love it. it's wonderful She's honestly.

511
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:34.200
She always seems a little bit unhinged and like she's got a snap

512
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.700
at any minute, you know?

513
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:36.900
So you're like, 0 God.

514
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:39.660
And then when she finally does, you know, I've taken down better

515
00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:43.380
men than you, Picard. so good.

516
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:44.339
It's so good.

517
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.519
But like even, I don't think he liked Kyla Marr very much in

518
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.359
Silicon Avatar next year, but I think she's pretty good as well.

519
00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:54.240
She does what she needs to do Terrible.

520
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:55.680
No, she's not.

521
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:57.480
She's at scenes with Data.

522
00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:00.240
I'm never sure he's the Androids, you know, honestly.

523
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:03.839
But I think this bombs it, and I think it kind of slightly wrecks

524
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.920
the episode, but there I'm not sure that the episode sells the

525
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.440
wounded thing all that well, right?

526
00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:13.140
Because of the actor or because of the script?

527
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.299
Maybe a bit of both.

528
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:18.420
Here are the Cardassians arriving on board.

529
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:20.339
Do you know, I really liked.

530
00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:21.599
I'm not sure what his name is.

531
00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:23.819
The Kardassian that tries to reach out to O'Brien.

532
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.599
I thought that was a lovely performance, and he's always sort of

533
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.380
looking at O'Brien, as if to say, can we find some common ground

534
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:31.680
here?

535
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:32.519
Yeah, yeah.

536
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:37.559
And the scene at the bar, I thought, was more affecting than the

537
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.819
scene between O'Brien and Maxwell, where he says to him, you know

538
00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.819
it's not that I don't like you, is because I don't like who I am

539
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:45.900
because of you.

540
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.559
They're admitting this, look at this.

541
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:56.519
Deanna looks across at Miles after the Cardassians go through the

542
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.759
transporter room and Miles is absolutely poker face.

543
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:00.660
He's giving nothing away.

544
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:07.319
And she notices something and she looks at him and that doesn't go

545
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:08.039
any further.

546
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:10.980
And in a way, I like that.

547
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:16.319
But in a way, I think not having Deanna around actually means that

548
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.599
we don't properly address what's going on.

549
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.799
Because the thing that Maxwell and you don't want her around

550
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.200
psychoanalysing everyone and spoiling.

551
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:26.039
Do you know what?

552
00:26:26.099 --> 00:26:29.160
If the trade-off is just a look from her rather than one of her

553
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:31.440
psychobabble scenes, I'll take the trade.

554
00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:34.920
But I liked that a lot because here's the problem.

555
00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:40.920
The problem is that both Maxwell and O'Brien are repressing and

556
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.799
refusing to acknowledge what happened to them.

557
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:49.440
And you get this weird ass conversation with Picard a bit later

558
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.740
where he's interviewing, you know, he's talking to Miles about

559
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:56.339
Maxwell and it says, how did he react to all his family getting

560
00:26:56.339 --> 00:26:57.480
killed in Setlick thing?

561
00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:00.240
And he said, oh, you know, he was back at work later that day and

562
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.880
he was completely normal and everything was just fine.

563
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.180
And he just thought, you think that is reasonable, O'Brien?

564
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:07.319
What is wrong with you?

565
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:08.460
Yeah, yeah.

566
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:11.099
But this goes to show how things have changed.

567
00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.460
Season one of Star Trek, the Next Generation, they Gene Rodenery

568
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:17.880
would not accept that any human being could be flawed.

569
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.819
That was part of the remit of the show. was they're all perfect

570
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.940
and you know, they don't use money and they're not racist and all

571
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:24.180
of this.

572
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.059
Look how things have changed, you know?

573
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.559
Yeah, yeah.

574
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:32.160
Yeah, like it gets, you know, it gets to a point where, and I

575
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.079
don't think Jim Rodden would, you know, when you've got characters

576
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.200
like Kira, who are terrorists, who are murderers as part of the

577
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.039
main ensemble.

578
00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:43.680
I know that she's not a human, but I think Pillar came in and said

579
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:44.220
do you know what?

580
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.140
We need to up the drama here.

581
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:50.160
We need to bring in, you know, bring in some themes like racism.

582
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:54.660
And make it make it more about people and less about people in

583
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:56.279
jobs solving space problems.

584
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:58.680
Yeah.

585
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:03.059
And I, I like, I do like, I know TNG can be a bit too subtle at

586
00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.420
times, or just...

587
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:11.519
No, but I like how quietly this is handled.

588
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:14.039
Like, they do, they do deal with racism elsewhere.

589
00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:16.140
We talked about Fabia on the stars before, and it's very in your

590
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:20.099
face. you know, but it looks, it's quiet moments.

591
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:21.599
It's quiet admissions.

592
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:23.099
I like that.

593
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:25.380
I like...

594
00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:27.000
That it is it isn't melodramatic.

595
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:29.339
But I think this scene is weird.

596
00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:32.759
And so we're in the turbo lift.

597
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:39.299
It's Miles and the 2 Cardassians who aren't Markalemo, and they're

598
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:42.359
just talking quite pleasantly, and one of the Cardassians is

599
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:47.940
trying to be nice, and O'Brien is really rude to them.

600
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:48.480
Yeah.

601
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.259
Well, the end of the scene where he says, you know, I'll do

602
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:55.259
whatever my captain says, but what I do in my free time, I'm

603
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:57.480
spending my hours with you, right?

604
00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:03.839
And then he denies to Keiko that he feels anything bad about the

605
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:08.700
Kardassians, but he's just done this, and it just seems...

606
00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:15.779
Like, he's been aggressive and then he denies...

607
00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:16.680
Yeah, he's really rude.

608
00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:20.640
And like fair enough, you know, like he killed one of them and was

609
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.599
in a war with them and that's how people react and we know that

610
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:28.680
you know, there were people in Australia who fought in the, you

611
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:33.299
know, the Pacific in World War 2 who, you know, never lost their

612
00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:36.299
hatred of Japanese people and that's regrettable and terrible.

613
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:38.700
But that's a thing that happens in war.

614
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:39.539
So, okay.

615
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:43.019
But, I don't know.

616
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:45.299
I just don't buy the arc.

617
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.759
I don't quite know what's supposed to happen here.

618
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.019
At what point does Miles learn a lesson, you know?

619
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:56.339
introduced here, but it's dealt with far better later.

620
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.039
I don't know if you remember the DS9 episode Cardassians in season

621
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:04.140
two, which is about the orphans, and they have a Cardassian child

622
00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:06.240
staying in their home, Miles and KK.

623
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:10.140
And there are some really powerful scenes where the child says to

624
00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:13.740
O'Brien, you know, don't you like Cardassians?

625
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:15.180
Like, like, what is it about me?

626
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:15.839
you don't like.

627
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:17.460
And it's really confronting.

628
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.440
And to be honest, it's a lot better written as well.

629
00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:20.279
Yeah.

630
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.440
Do you know how I read that scene in the Turberlift?

631
00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:23.940
I think he fancies O'Brien, you know.

632
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.680
That's why he's trying to get him.

633
00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:26.640
No, it's true.

634
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:28.019
It's season 3 of DS9.

635
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.019
There is a Kardashian that comes on and literally is pursuing him

636
00:30:31.019 --> 00:30:34.200
round the what are those shafts that he works in?

637
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:37.680
She's hunting him down the Jeffrey shoes.

638
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:40.079
I think the Cardassians have got a bit of a thing for Miles

639
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:40.559
O'Brien.

640
00:30:40.619 --> 00:30:41.880
Oh, maybe that's it.

641
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:42.839
Maybe that too.

642
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:44.160
Yeah, yeah.

643
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:46.019
No, what's this?

644
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.180
It's got capers in it.

645
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.220
Oh, that's Colcanon, isn't it?

646
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.380
It's mashed potatoes, cheese, capers.

647
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:53.880
It's really nice, actually.

648
00:30:53.940 --> 00:30:59.039
I much rather have that if I'm on it, stodgy food. than my crabs

649
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.960
or Keiko's plankton loaf.

650
00:31:01.019 --> 00:31:04.559
But you know, despite these slightly dodgy dialogue, I do think

651
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:07.380
these 2 have a good chemistry, I think I believe the relationship

652
00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:08.700
as it continues.

653
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.279
I like the fact that it transfers.

654
00:31:11.339 --> 00:31:15.720
They go from this lovely, you know, hotel in space to that grotty

655
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:16.619
shitty space station.

656
00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:18.660
We got to deal with a fallout of that.

657
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.779
Yeah, I like it.

658
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.559
And I really like hear that idea of sort of sharing each other's

659
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:25.980
cultures.

660
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:28.079
Because it's what you're doing in a relationship, isn't it?

661
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:28.920
Yeah, yeah.

662
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:32.640
Yeah, and obviously, like, this is their 1st week of marriage.

663
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.619
You know, they literally got married last week.

664
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:38.279
You shouldn't be having polite meals.

665
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:40.019
They should just be...

666
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:46.380
Well, in fact, there is a really, really gross line at the end of

667
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:46.980
his seat.

668
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.640
Do you know what?

669
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:53.759
Do you remember that one where O'Brien is taken to Carthassia

670
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.700
Prime and is forced to endure like a fake trial?

671
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:01.500
There's a scene in the runabout where literally she climbs on top

672
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:04.980
of him and they start doing unspeakable things in the cockpit of

673
00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:05.400
the runabout.

674
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:06.900
I mean, honestly...

675
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:09.779
Yeah, say that, did I?

676
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.519
I just think here, the level of, like the absolute lack of insight

677
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:20.279
that O'Brien is showing here or the way that he's repressing, like

678
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:21.660
I just don't quite get it.

679
00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:25.019
And I guess...

680
00:32:25.019 --> 00:32:25.920
I'll tell you what it is.

681
00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:28.380
They haven't done this before and they're sort of feeling into

682
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:30.240
doing this style of characterisation.

683
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:32.819
So it is all a bit blatant and a bit awkward.

684
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:34.740
But it doesn't quite work.

685
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.519
And like it's called the wounded, and so it's Maxwell and O'Brien

686
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:39.059
are the wounded.

687
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.420
They've been damaged by their experience in Setlic 3 and they're

688
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:45.359
unable to properly acknowledge how they feel about it.

689
00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:48.839
But it doesn't, it just doesn't quite work and I don't know what

690
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:50.759
they learn at the end, I guess.

691
00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:53.700
Certainly what O'Brien learns at the end.

692
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.579
I don't know what's going on there. do love that.

693
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.099
That last scene between them where they sing the hymn, though.

694
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:02.400
I think that's the moment where that relationship hits and you

695
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:03.000
feel something.

696
00:33:03.059 --> 00:33:05.339
It's cheesy as hell.

697
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.400
Oh, but that whole idea is that's great.

698
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:10.799
Two old soul soldiers.

699
00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:12.119
He knows he's defeated.

700
00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:15.299
He knows probably the last time he's going to see him, and they

701
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:16.980
sing that sort of ditty together.

702
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.920
And I know Michael Piller added that song.

703
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:23.759
So I think he knew, he knew when to end so a character.

704
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.440
Yeah, since 6 episodes to make them work.

705
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:27.180
It's really, really great.

706
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:33.599
Can I redress an erroneous fact that I have delivered to you in

707
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:34.019
the past?

708
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:34.920
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

709
00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:38.759
This episode was directed by Chip Chalmers and I told you that he

710
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:42.000
only directed the magnificent Ferengi and take me out to the holo

711
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:42.299
suite.

712
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.960
Actually, that's how he did a ton of TNGs as well.

713
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:47.160
And not just comedies.

714
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:53.279
And, you know, the direction is a little bit theatrical and

715
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.980
there's not much going on with a camera work and things like

716
00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:56.160
that.

717
00:33:56.220 --> 00:34:01.500
But I think he knows where to put the camera in the sort of the

718
00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:03.180
hard hitting moments.

719
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.059
Yeah, which is right in the actor's bloody faces.

720
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:10.739
So this moment here, like, where, like, absolutely selling how

721
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:16.139
important his decision is to send the transponder codes to the

722
00:34:16.139 --> 00:34:17.039
Cardassians.

723
00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:18.300
It's amazing.

724
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:20.280
Cuffs warfed out as well, doesn't he?

725
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:20.880
Mr. Walf.

726
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:21.480
Yeah, yeah.

727
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:22.440
Yeah.

728
00:34:23.219 --> 00:34:24.960
Oh, here we go.

729
00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:29.039
So they didn't they didn't do any new effects for these scenes

730
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:29.280
then.

731
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:32.280
No, I think that they're high resolution even.

732
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:38.639
It's very sharp, you know Yeah, I think I think that's a that

733
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.199
scanner are very sharp.

734
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:47.280
So, so their decision is to play out the rampage. basically, you

735
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:49.559
know, backsource rampage where he kills a whole bunch of

736
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:54.000
Kardassians is just played out as dots on the screen and looking

737
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.699
very nice here in the high definition version.

738
00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:00.900
And I can't see a way of avoiding that.

739
00:35:01.739 --> 00:35:09.000
And I think the thing that maybe sells it is Gulmerset's reaction

740
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:17.760
because it is also very, very low key, you know, but...

741
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.980
Yeah, look at that.

742
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:20.760
Look at that reaction.

743
00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:24.780
It's not histrionic or anything, but he's, he feels it.

744
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:26.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

745
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:31.139
And Picard's restrained like, oh, shit, what's just happened, you

746
00:35:31.139 --> 00:35:32.519
know, all contained in his face.

747
00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:35.940
I think, you know, Chip Chalmers was probably like, well, okay, so

748
00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:37.860
you're going to give me some fabulous special effects for this

749
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:39.599
sequence and they're like, no, we've got no money.

750
00:35:39.659 --> 00:35:41.820
So actually, he makes a wise choice.

751
00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:44.099
And I don't know if you noticed, it was like cut, cut, cut to

752
00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:46.199
every face as the camera was zooming in.

753
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:49.079
So it had a bit of movement and a bit of drama to it.

754
00:35:49.139 --> 00:35:51.599
He's, you know, what, he ain't got much, but he's going to do what

755
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:52.500
he can with what he's got.

756
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.619
But I mean, in the sense this is a sort of messenger scene, and if

757
00:35:55.619 --> 00:35:59.340
it had been if, like, I can imagine a version of it where we see

758
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:03.179
you know, we're on the Cardassian ship and we see the Phoenix

759
00:36:03.179 --> 00:36:05.880
approach and stuff and that it would all be a bit mawkish or a bit

760
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:07.380
kind of over the top.

761
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:13.139
And I think I think just relying on Massette's reaction is the

762
00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:13.800
right call.

763
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:16.260
This is potentially the most boring job.

764
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:17.400
Do you see what he's doing there?

765
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:18.840
pulling out isolinear rods.

766
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.659
He's so bored standing there in the transport.

767
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:23.400
Wow.

768
00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:24.719
Apparently there's a lot of that about.

769
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:27.179
Oh, listen to you.

770
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:29.579
I've served with the 2 finest captains in Starfleet.

771
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.639
And then he says, he says the same thing to Cisco as well.

772
00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:33.300
You know.

773
00:36:33.539 --> 00:36:36.059
This is how, I mean, it's unlisted, but this is how he gets these

774
00:36:36.059 --> 00:36:36.960
sweet posts, you know.

775
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:38.159
That's right.

776
00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:41.519
Still the time. tactical officer on the feet, on the whatever it

777
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:42.360
is, the rutledge.

778
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:43.679
No, he's just standing in.

779
00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:45.599
I suppose it's the flagship of the Federation.

780
00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:47.099
Yeah, it's pretty good.

781
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:48.900
This is so weird.

782
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.460
Oh, he took it pretty well.

783
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:52.860
I mean, you know, his family was dead, but he was okay.

784
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.239
You know, he never...

785
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:55.440
He never missed a minute's duty.

786
00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:57.360
You can't just say...

787
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.000
Do you think perhaps he should have done and had...

788
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:02.460
God does react.

789
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:07.260
He is a bit taken aback and he doesn't quite know how to respond.

790
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:08.639
But again, this doesn't go anywhere.

791
00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:10.320
There's nothing that we get from this.

792
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:11.579
Is it about men?

793
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:17.400
Is it about like men being fucking maniacs and not being able to

794
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.619
deal with their feelings of grief or what is it?

795
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:21.599
Well, with O'Brien.

796
00:37:21.659 --> 00:37:26.460
I think it is just sort of leaning into the whole loyalty aspect

797
00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:26.760
isn't it?

798
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:31.500
And I think it's bizarre because it's a bit cultish, like that you

799
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:34.619
would be, you just accept terrible decisions. that somebody's

800
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:36.900
making just because you think they're an amazing.

801
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:40.199
You probably should say to your captain, have a bit of time off

802
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:42.179
you know, like, honestly, can I speak to counsellor Troy?

803
00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:43.980
Yeah, yeah.

804
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:45.599
No, I mean...

805
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:47.219
And what was this all about?

806
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:48.179
Like old leather.

807
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.880
You're talking about hate, isn't he?

808
00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:53.820
Hate and they love these metaphors in anger.

809
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:58.019
I just loved hearing that in Patrick Stewart's voice, though, where

810
00:37:58.019 --> 00:38:01.019
he says, like old leather, you know, like it's so great.

811
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:02.159
He's so good.

812
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:06.420
And he's probably good in this, and sometimes I think that Patrick

813
00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:10.019
Stewart's a little bit overrated as an actor, and, you know

814
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.619
Americans just love him because he's got that Rata accent, but I

815
00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:16.380
think he's really terribly good in this.

816
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:19.679
When he is given something meat, he'd get his teeth into.

817
00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:21.719
I think he always delivers.

818
00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:24.960
I think it's when he's asked to do embarrassing things and you can

819
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.059
visibly see it on his face.

820
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.679
Like, how has my career come to this?

821
00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:30.000
Yeah.

822
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.940
Do you remember, like, there was that news story that he said he

823
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:35.880
wasn't going to go on unless they gave him a few more girls on his

824
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:39.599
arm and let him direct a few episodes because he was doing so many

825
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:40.679
embarrassing things all the time.

826
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:42.360
Oh I love this scene.

827
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:45.300
See, I think it's a bit overwritten.

828
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:51.360
I think it is a bit overwritten and I think...

829
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:54.059
I just, I like the idea because we don't often see it with the

830
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:56.219
Kardashians. like somebody reaching out like this.

831
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:59.340
They're generally portrayed as the bad guys of the trait

832
00:38:59.340 --> 00:38:59.820
universe.

833
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:02.099
So every time we see one like this.

834
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.340
Like, the one that had a romance with Quark, she's really

835
00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:07.260
interesting, the scientists that come along in Deer science

836
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:07.920
destiny.

837
00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:10.260
They're always quite interesting characters because it's playing

838
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:10.860
against the norm.

839
00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:13.559
Yeah.

840
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:15.420
I guess...

841
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:20.519
I mean, this is kind of nice and it is just, I just think that the

842
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:25.500
story, you know, like it was all women and children and then a

843
00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:30.539
woman threw me the phaser and it just happened to be... and I

844
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:32.760
didn't check and blah, blah, blah.

845
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:35.219
Like, I just don't buy any of that for a second.

846
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.320
Do you know what's the best one?

847
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:42.059
Do you remember in that, um, the 1st episode of the Homecoming, uh

848
00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:44.940
DS9 series, too, where Lee Nullis is talking about, oh, they made

849
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:48.960
me a hero because I'd went down, literally went to hide. shot and

850
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.400
Kardashian shot his underpants.

851
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:51.840
Did you remember it?

852
00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:54.360
Yeah, yeah, that's a really great version of this.

853
00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:56.820
But they're always a bit ripe.

854
00:39:56.940 --> 00:39:58.199
Yeah, yeah.

855
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:03.179
And every, I'm not, I'm looking at you, every regular in every 90s

856
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:05.579
trek show has a moment like this where they talk about their past

857
00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:09.239
and there's some, you know, some hideously overdumb story.

858
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:16.440
You know, like, I think too, that, again, I just think Star Trek

859
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:22.739
can't handle that at this and maybe ever, that the problem wasn't

860
00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:24.840
that he killed a Cardassian by accident.

861
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:28.440
Like, the more interesting problem is that he had to kill a bunch

862
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:32.400
of Cardassians by choice in order to defend Cellic 3.

863
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:35.579
And that would have been a bit more interesting rather than, oh, I

864
00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:37.199
would never even swat a mosquito.

865
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:42.119
And then I vaporised this fucking asshole who was shooting.

866
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:43.980
Come, come way of the warrior.

867
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:46.500
He's taking out fucking Klingons, why you wouldn't believe.

868
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:48.360
He's gotten over that by that point.

869
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:49.139
I'm telling you.

870
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:49.739
That's right.

871
00:40:49.739 --> 00:40:55.260
That is a minefield of bloody Klingon's dead at the end of that

872
00:40:55.260 --> 00:40:55.559
episode.

873
00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:57.119
O'Brien shot off them.

874
00:40:57.900 --> 00:40:59.280
Yeah.

875
00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:03.239
So he wrestled with his conscience and he won.

876
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:05.099
Yeah, yeah.

877
00:41:05.219 --> 00:41:06.539
So, I don't know.

878
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.860
I don't I just don't think that his arc works.

879
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:16.380
And I don't think we address the weird cultish denial of his

880
00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:19.800
feelings that he has in that speech with Keiko and then in the

881
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:21.000
speech with Picard.

882
00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:24.960
What would be more interesting would be if the episode manoeuvred

883
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:29.400
him in a position where he couldn't obey Maxwell.

884
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:33.840
So then it kind of explored it that way, but we don't really go

885
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:34.079
there.

886
00:41:34.139 --> 00:41:36.659
I know they're together at the end, but it's basically you're

887
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:37.199
coming with me.

888
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:38.639
You know, like, yeah, yeah.

889
00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:39.239
Yeah.

890
00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:39.960
Yeah.

891
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:44.519
And maybe that scene is better because it doesn't address anything

892
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:46.320
because it just happens, you know.

893
00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:50.699
Well, of course, one of the Kardashians has been poking around in

894
00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:51.420
a computer.

895
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.059
But look at his response.

896
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:59.400
I really like how he responds and he is selling that he's

897
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:00.659
cooperating with Picard.

898
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.139
Picard is making concessions and is, you know, basically shopped

899
00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:05.940
Maxwell to the Cardassians.

900
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.159
But you remember I said about that ambiguity.

901
00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:11.519
You can read this 2 ways. how to look like.

902
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:12.179
How do you do this?

903
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:15.239
The other version of this is, how dare you fucking get caught?

904
00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:17.519
You know, you should have been better at your job.

905
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.199
Because I'll tell you what, the Kardassians, they don't do failure

906
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:25.079
obviously, they'll throw you in prison for anything or execute

907
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:25.320
you.

908
00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:26.159
Yeah.

909
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.199
But I, I mean, I kind of like this.

910
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:30.539
This is a really good scene with the 2 of them.

911
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:31.920
They're both great in it.

912
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:35.280
We're in the ready room, which means it must be serious.

913
00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:36.840
It must be serious.

914
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:38.880
This is not for public consumption.

915
00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:44.519
But the way Picard responds, you know, you do what you like.

916
00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:45.659
I'm I'm done.

917
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.599
There's no I'm not going to push it any further, you know.

918
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.019
If you think I'm going to fill out one more bloody form to

919
00:42:52.019 --> 00:42:55.380
Starfleet about your man poking around in the computers.

920
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:00.539
All about him being conciliatory because Starfleet fucked up in

921
00:43:00.539 --> 00:43:00.780
this one.

922
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:07.679
And a lameo smiles as if to say, yeah, I won this one, you know.

923
00:43:09.420 --> 00:43:13.679
But they're both kind of lying throughout, aren't they?

924
00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:15.000
They're both playing each other.

925
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:20.519
And it's only in that very last scene where that all sort of

926
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:20.940
drops.

927
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.400
I love the bit where Picard just turns his back on him.

928
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:28.860
And says, you know, you can piss off now. would have done it the

929
00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:32.099
same way, even if he didn't believe Maxwell.

930
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:33.840
And I think that that's the point.

931
00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:38.940
The point is that this piece is so important.

932
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:44.519
It's more important than, um, you know, the fact that the

933
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:48.239
Cardassians are doing stuff in their own, you know, dodgy things

934
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:49.739
in their own territory and stuff.

935
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:51.539
It's just like, I'm not going to react to that.

936
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:55.199
Uh, you know, I'm not going to be the one, hey, look at this

937
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:57.239
beautiful ship at nebula class.

938
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:59.820
I don't want to be this boring person who keeps saying, do you

939
00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:01.079
remember in this DS9 episode?

940
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:05.099
but do you remember in the DS9 episode Defiant, where Tom Riker

941
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:08.519
Nick's a defiant, shoots Kira, Nixon Defiant, and then goes off to

942
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:11.280
do terrible mucky things to the Kardashian ships.

943
00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:14.699
And then the whole thing is he's got intelligence that they're

944
00:44:14.699 --> 00:44:19.199
building up a force of ships over here and he wants to expose it.

945
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:23.579
And then at the end, no, it's true.

946
00:44:23.699 --> 00:44:27.000
But we don't actually see it until later in the season when that

947
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:29.280
ship, then they attack the Dominion planet.

948
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:30.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

949
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:32.880
That's how you do it. is how you do it. you know?

950
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:35.219
Oh, here he is.

951
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:36.059
Max Wells here.

952
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:36.960
Yeah.

953
00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:38.760
And so he isn't a broken man.

954
00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:40.860
He doesn't appear to be wounded in any way.

955
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:42.659
And maybe that's the point.

956
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:47.219
You know, like he's got this sort of brash masculine veneer and he

957
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:52.199
just seems like a, you know, like a blokeey asshole. you know, like

958
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.360
he's super unlikeable and that's fine.

959
00:44:54.420 --> 00:45:00.539
But what we don't get is what we get from Decker, in the doomsday

960
00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:03.300
machine, where he's Captain...

961
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:07.139
And that is so much better.

962
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:12.539
He is unfucking hinged throughout and like yours, you're

963
00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:16.380
absolutely certain he has been completely scarred by the instant.

964
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:17.280
You're right.

965
00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:18.239
He playing very nicely.

966
00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:20.639
And this scene here, I thought how it was written and how the

967
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:23.519
table sort of turned where he comes in going, oh, Captain Picard

968
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:25.019
I'm so pleased it's you coming out here.

969
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:26.460
You know, you know what it's like.

970
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:27.420
You're going to be behind me.

971
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:30.300
And then by the end of the scene, he's going, you know, oh

972
00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:32.159
bollocks, you know, you know, you're not behind me at all.

973
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.699
But all of that, you're behind me, is that weird kind of

974
00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:37.800
personality disorder thing.

975
00:45:37.860 --> 00:45:40.980
You know, it's like those bureaucrats bureaucrats back at

976
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:41.820
Starfleet.

977
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:45.659
They don't understand, but you're like me, you're a good guy.

978
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.019
And the moment that he's not, he lumps them in with the

979
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:50.340
bureaucrats in Starfleet.

980
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.659
Like, it's horrible personality sorted stuff like Lawker in

981
00:45:54.659 --> 00:45:56.400
Discovery Series one.

982
00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:59.159
And again, this is so inferior to that.

983
00:45:59.219 --> 00:46:03.780
You know, this guy should be more... you know why I think before

984
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:07.800
this, we probably wouldn't have noticed his performance is because

985
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.440
I think a lot of Star Trek, the Next Generation has these sort of

986
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:13.260
murder she wrote style performances in it.

987
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:17.159
Yeah, just slips in with all the others, but then you get, you get

988
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.539
somebody like Gene Simmons and you see just how astonishing it can

989
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:21.719
be.

990
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:27.960
Or our friend Mark Harelich from, um, uh, counterpoint, you know

991
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:32.699
like, or, or what's his face from, um, progress.

992
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.420
You know, like these, you know, the just...

993
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.599
Keith, Keith.

994
00:46:39.659 --> 00:46:40.619
Brian Keith.

995
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:42.000
Oh, amazingly good.

996
00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:42.420
Yeah.

997
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.659
There was this, you know, they found there was this big...

998
00:46:45.659 --> 00:46:48.780
The bullshit blocking where he's standing in front of a camera

999
00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:53.639
with his back to Picard talking to him because it's a fucking soap

1000
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:54.239
opera.

1001
00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:55.199
It's so bad.

1002
00:46:55.739 --> 00:46:58.800
We should count how many times they do that.

1003
00:46:58.860 --> 00:46:59.639
It's a lot, though.

1004
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:01.440
It's an all this TV thing.

1005
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:04.500
When they're stuck in a runabout, you know, such a tight space.

1006
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.780
They've got to do those shots in order to get them both in, you

1007
00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:06.960
know?

1008
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:07.980
Yeah, that's right.

1009
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:14.760
But it is this sort of, oh, like a this, like a bureaucrat's

1010
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:15.059
office.

1011
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.780
And he's absolutely can't deliver the line.

1012
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:22.559
And like Picard is great.

1013
00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:25.800
Like, Stuart is great because he's not overplaying it either, but

1014
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:29.820
he's sort of sitting back there and he's absolutely incredulous

1015
00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:33.000
and he's absolutely not giving Maxwell anything.

1016
00:47:33.059 --> 00:47:35.519
He's not gonna take any of Maxwell's shit at all.

1017
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:38.579
It's just like you are a monster.

1018
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.760
Do you remember when they did this again?

1019
00:47:41.820 --> 00:47:45.840
a similar story with the Pegasus and it was Riker and that

1020
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:47.880
fantastic actor that's just been in everything.

1021
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:49.619
He's in lost, he's in...

1022
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:50.400
I forget his name.

1023
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:52.139
Do you remember I can't remember.

1024
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:54.179
But it's basically these themes.

1025
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:55.559
Yes, isn't it?

1026
00:47:55.980 --> 00:48:00.599
Uh, Frakes and that actor are beep of ours as good as each other.

1027
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:02.940
So it is this taken up to 11.

1028
00:48:03.179 --> 00:48:05.519
I wonder if Stuart was sitting there thinking, oh, he's just

1029
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:08.159
bombing this.

1030
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:10.139
We had James Simmons, the other weight.

1031
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:10.739
What's gone wrong?

1032
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:11.460
That's right.

1033
00:48:11.460 --> 00:48:12.960
Yeah, yeah.

1034
00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:16.800
But like him and Mark, like they're better.

1035
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:20.159
That's a better duo here.

1036
00:48:20.219 --> 00:48:23.760
And this is the central relationship of the episode and it just

1037
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.539
doesn't work.

1038
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:26.519
This scene is terrible because he's not good.

1039
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.360
Nana visitor always used to say about Markalemo.

1040
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:31.619
She said, you know what?

1041
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:34.860
I would never let kit, no matter how much Mark went on about

1042
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:38.880
Kieran, um, Dukat being together, I would never let it happen.

1043
00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:40.559
She goes, but getting scenes with him.

1044
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:44.699
He would up my game and her game is pretty high as it is.

1045
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:48.420
She goes, I'd have to come up there to match him, you know.

1046
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:54.119
I think, um, Michael Amo bitches in the what you leave behind a

1047
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:57.960
documentary that no one ever told him he was doing good work and

1048
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:03.179
Ira Bear just like stares at him like incredulously and goes, Mark

1049
00:49:03.179 --> 00:49:04.260
we kept writing you up.

1050
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:05.639
We kept giving you work.

1051
00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:07.920
It won't happen like you were going.

1052
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:09.659
We would have fucking written you out.

1053
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:10.500
You know?

1054
00:49:10.500 --> 00:49:14.699
He's like, but no one ever said anything and then it comes to our

1055
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:16.320
repair guy. actors are so needy.

1056
00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:19.920
You know, like, Oh, God.

1057
00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:23.760
Like, Picard, like Stuart handed him a thing.

1058
00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:26.219
And then he's just staring into the middle distance.

1059
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:28.440
He's got no idea what to do with it.

1060
00:49:28.500 --> 00:49:30.539
Do you not think he looks a bit bored?

1061
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:33.719
This thing over.

1062
00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:36.539
He's just not very good. unfortunately.

1063
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:39.480
Fortunately, they send him back to his ship in a minute.

1064
00:49:39.539 --> 00:49:40.500
We don't see him for a little while.

1065
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:41.579
I never see him again.

1066
00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:42.179
Yeah.

1067
00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:46.500
What's Nathan, can you tell me what style of ship that is, please?

1068
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:48.300
No, that's nebula class.

1069
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:49.860
There's like the one in the office.

1070
00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:50.579
I knew you would know.

1071
00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:52.320
Credits of Deep Sa 9.

1072
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:54.000
There's a little one like that on one of them.

1073
00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:55.980
Oh, no, look, there's a long shot of the bridge.

1074
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:57.900
Yeah, it always looks terrible doesn't it?

1075
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:58.920
It's got those red.

1076
00:49:58.980 --> 00:50:01.860
Do you not get a sort of, I don't know, like nostalgic tingles for

1077
00:50:01.860 --> 00:50:02.039
it?

1078
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:03.239
Oh, yeah, of course.

1079
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:04.019
Of course I do.

1080
00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:07.260
And I think in normal shots, it looks pretty good.

1081
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:08.880
Like, that's an interesting shot.

1082
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:10.739
There's interesting things happening in the background.

1083
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.260
There's someone's bum there in that scene there.

1084
00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:18.360
Yeah, you know, like, I do think it sort of works, but it doesn't

1085
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:18.960
work in space.

1086
00:50:19.019 --> 00:50:20.880
Because they've got a hole, right?

1087
00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:24.599
Every time there's a close-up on someone's crotch, every time we

1088
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:25.260
see people.

1089
00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:26.159
Maybe it's warf.

1090
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:28.320
Maybe war.

1091
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:28.920
I think it probably is.

1092
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:36.659
I'm sure it's impressive He'll attack those ships just as he did.

1093
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:38.039
A priority one message.

1094
00:50:38.099 --> 00:50:39.900
How many how many numbers do you have?

1095
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:41.519
Yeah, just one.

1096
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:42.780
No, that's super priority.

1097
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:44.760
Like, if it's priority 428.

1098
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:48.480
They might get it, you know, in a year or 2 Tell Admiral Nachea

1099
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:49.440
I've sent her some flowers.

1100
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:50.880
Priority 10 message, right?

1101
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:51.719
That's right.

1102
00:50:54.179 --> 00:50:56.519
Oh, this made me laugh.

1103
00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:59.699
I was shouting. my laugh came running because I was getting so

1104
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:00.539
angry.

1105
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.619
And he goes, oh, in a minute he goes, oh, yeah, take us from warp

1106
00:51:04.619 --> 00:51:05.579
5 to warp nine.

1107
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:08.219
Why the fuck weren't you going to warp 9 in the 1st place?

1108
00:51:08.340 --> 00:51:11.340
We want to catch up with him before he murders a ton of people.

1109
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.639
It makes no sense.

1110
00:51:14.699 --> 00:51:17.280
But just for the drama, you know, they should have done that Red

1111
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:17.820
War thing.

1112
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:21.900
You know, that line about step up from Blue Alert to Red Alert.

1113
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:22.800
Are you sure, sir?

1114
00:51:22.860 --> 00:51:24.599
It does mean changing the bulb.

1115
00:51:24.659 --> 00:51:29.519
Yeah, now we get to see the...

1116
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:30.480
There we go.

1117
00:51:30.539 --> 00:51:31.380
The actual ships.

1118
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:34.679
We get to see the actual ships. that's pretty good Wait, you see

1119
00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:35.400
the shine?

1120
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:37.079
It's nice.

1121
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:39.119
That cut...

1122
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:42.960
Yeah, I do too. and it's like visible here for the 1st time in the

1123
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.679
opening, you know, like when we 1st see them come on board.

1124
00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:49.500
So it does debut here and they keep it up, it's good.

1125
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:52.559
In the future, when we can afford CGI battle scenes.

1126
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:55.380
Those Kardashian ships, you know, they're very sleek.

1127
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:57.179
They fly through the battlefield.

1128
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.539
But in a minute, honest to God, the shooting that goes on, it's so

1129
00:52:00.539 --> 00:52:00.960
dull.

1130
00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:02.460
Yeah, yeah.

1131
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:03.420
It's funny. yeah.

1132
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.420
He says, he says, fire the phaser.

1133
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.300
So we get one shot of the phaser, but then we, that's it.

1134
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:10.019
That's all we see.

1135
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:10.980
And he's like, fire again.

1136
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:13.619
I thought, my God, are we going to have more scenes?

1137
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:14.400
No, that was it.

1138
00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:15.900
That one that was our hero shot.

1139
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:21.179
Yeah, see, this is the chance for him to be a bit crazy.

1140
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:21.960
Do you know what I mean?

1141
00:52:22.019 --> 00:52:23.039
Why isn't he being crazy?

1142
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:24.239
He's ruining his career.

1143
00:52:24.300 --> 00:52:27.239
He's stealing a starship, essentially, at this point.

1144
00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:29.039
But he's just sitting there looking bored.

1145
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:32.460
With this performance, I think he's ruining his career, you know?

1146
00:52:32.699 --> 00:52:36.420
You remember that whopping great close-up on Decker as he was

1147
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:37.500
going into the doomsday?

1148
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:41.280
And it was really, well, I mean, the music was doing a lot of the

1149
00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:41.460
work.

1150
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:42.239
It was going crazy.

1151
00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:45.780
But in comparison, yeah, no, he's nothing.

1152
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:47.159
He's no good at all, I think.

1153
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:48.659
And you know what?

1154
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:51.059
There's something about the O'Brien walked in, right?

1155
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:53.400
He looks so awkward just sort of standing there in that dead

1156
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:53.880
space.

1157
00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:56.940
He doesn't quite know what to do with his arms there in that

1158
00:52:56.940 --> 00:52:57.420
sense.

1159
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:01.739
That was just so weird.

1160
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:07.139
Just there with them hanging limply down your sides, Collin.

1161
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:07.860
But you know what?

1162
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.739
If I walked into that room, I would have sort of gone round and

1163
00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:12.059
been with them, you know?

1164
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:14.519
I wouldn't just sort of stand in a weird empty space.

1165
00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:18.960
That thing where he says you tend to get inside someone is super

1166
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:19.500
upsetting.

1167
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.760
I don't know what they were doing. long evenings on satellite

1168
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.039
three. upsetting.

1169
00:53:26.099 --> 00:53:27.900
You're not the only one.

1170
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:30.659
This is another cliche of 90s trek.

1171
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:33.780
Okay, where somebody's been close to the, you know, the nutty

1172
00:53:33.780 --> 00:53:36.420
admiral of the week or the nutty caps end of the week.

1173
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.159
And they understand their tactics.

1174
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:40.500
So they go, oh, yeah, well, they're going to do, you know, the

1175
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:44.880
Kubayashi Maruma, you know, and then as if they've only got one

1176
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:45.119
move.

1177
00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:45.900
You know?

1178
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:46.619
Yeah, yeah.

1179
00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:48.179
Well, lowered the whole...

1180
00:53:48.179 --> 00:53:51.960
That is exactly what they do in the episode so we can counter it.

1181
00:53:52.019 --> 00:53:54.179
And look at this ship.

1182
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:55.619
So the ship is one room.

1183
00:53:58.679 --> 00:54:01.980
There's not even any panels or anything on the wall, is there?

1184
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:02.820
There was a window.

1185
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:06.059
We did see the Enterprise out of a window, so that's sold that we

1186
00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:06.900
were on the other ship.

1187
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:08.460
Did it reflect?

1188
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:12.059
No, of course.

1189
00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:12.659
Yeah.

1190
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:15.119
What the hell happened to this war?

1191
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:17.340
Blah, blah, blah.

1192
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:17.880
Yeah.

1193
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.800
There's no war.

1194
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.800
I think this is supposed to be deeply moving, but I think it's not

1195
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:25.380
until they start singing that I actually feel anything.

1196
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:28.679
Yeah, well, all that stuff about Stampy and stuff.

1197
00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:30.239
The guy's such an asshole.

1198
00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:33.300
Like he's such a fucking asshole.

1199
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:36.719
I you know, I just dislike him enormously.

1200
00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:41.699
It's all that sort of bloakey shit like is there baseball captain

1201
00:54:41.699 --> 00:54:42.119
or something.

1202
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:45.659
He still looks awkward just standing there, doesn't he?

1203
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:46.440
Is his old?

1204
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:50.460
No, but I don't think Maxwell's doing any better job with his arms

1205
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:51.239
at all either.

1206
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:53.099
Well, at least he's moving about a bit.

1207
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:54.599
I suppose.

1208
00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:56.159
I know, but you know what?

1209
00:54:56.159 --> 00:55:00.480
I don't I don't think Columini is doing a bad job in this

1210
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:00.840
episode.

1211
00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:04.800
Maybe some of the writing is overdone, but I think he kind of sees

1212
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:05.639
his opportunity here.

1213
00:55:05.699 --> 00:55:08.880
We did talk over his one acting moment where he got to see

1214
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:11.280
children who never had the chance to grow up.

1215
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.159
So moving.

1216
00:55:17.699 --> 00:55:22.980
That's our most melodramatic moment since Edinton went off to

1217
00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:23.880
sacrifice himself.

1218
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:25.559
Yeah, that's right.

1219
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:26.579
He's not coming.

1220
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:30.059
So great.

1221
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.019
Right back.

1222
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:34.260
Now we're talking about stompy Jesus Christ.

1223
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.739
Oh, I don't think they know this is ridiculous. you know, all of

1224
00:55:37.739 --> 00:55:40.139
this. melodrama.

1225
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.400
Well, you know, it is sort of melodrama and surely they must

1226
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:46.800
realise it's ridiculous, but he can't do it.

1227
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:48.059
That's no problem.

1228
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:52.619
He's given something so ripe and so obvious and he can't sell it.

1229
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:56.519
It's a shame But can you imagine the scene without the singing?

1230
00:55:56.579 --> 00:55:58.800
Like, it's the scene that makes it.

1231
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:00.300
Yeah.

1232
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.480
And singing again is super cheesy and super ribe.

1233
00:56:03.539 --> 00:56:09.599
But I do like, I actually like the idea that...

1234
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:12.239
I don't know.

1235
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:15.599
Nothing gets resolved about the plot, about men not being able to

1236
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.980
deal with their emotions, about people experiencing harm and and

1237
00:56:19.980 --> 00:56:24.119
then taking it out on people because they can't deal with it.

1238
00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:26.400
And nothing teaches him to deal with it.

1239
00:56:26.460 --> 00:56:31.920
But it is just, no, I, Brian, either. acknowledged that he has

1240
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.340
problems with the Cardassians. and then we move on.

1241
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:38.820
Yeah, but it is a thread they pick up.

1242
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:42.119
So that's that's fair enough, you know, that it's not something

1243
00:56:42.119 --> 00:56:42.659
they forget.

1244
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:46.199
No, but it doesn't, it does mean that in the context of this

1245
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:47.460
episode none of it quite works.

1246
00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:54.119
And it is picked up in a different and superior show, yeah.

1247
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:54.960
Many years later.

1248
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:59.099
And there is something, I don't know what's going on here.

1249
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:02.280
Certainly Colms giving a better job, but then at this point, the

1250
00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:07.019
music, the soundtrack takes up and plays that song as well.

1251
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:11.940
And I think that that's the thing that I, you know, that's the

1252
00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:14.760
moment where he realises it's so good.

1253
00:57:14.820 --> 00:57:15.840
Yeah, yeah.

1254
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:19.739
Like the music you heard it, it just comes in and starts doing

1255
00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:22.619
that very song and I just thought, okay, I'll buy that.

1256
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:24.059
That's what you should be doing.

1257
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:27.360
I mean, I noticed all the ad break, you know, the 52nd ad break

1258
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:29.699
music in this. right, it's right.

1259
00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:33.119
This is the 2nd 90s episode on the trot where you mentioned the

1260
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:34.079
music in a positive way.

1261
00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:36.179
Yeah, it's that moment.

1262
00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:38.400
I've got a reputation to live up to, you know, Nathan, honestly.

1263
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:38.940
Yeah, yeah.

1264
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:39.960
There's still nothing.

1265
00:57:40.019 --> 00:57:42.300
It's still nothing as good as original series music.

1266
00:57:42.539 --> 00:57:47.039
No, this isn't what this episode is all about, but this is the

1267
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:49.380
best scene in the episode in a minute between Bassette and

1268
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:49.860
Picard.

1269
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:52.679
It's so good Yeah, I agree.

1270
00:57:52.739 --> 00:57:56.820
And it's it's that twist, which I think is so good.

1271
00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:04.260
Because the previous thing is about war, the other plot, the A

1272
00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:06.960
plot, I suppose, because the episode's named after it, is about

1273
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:12.300
the war, but this plot between those two just shows how important

1274
00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:17.519
pieces, and maybe because war damages people the way it damaged

1275
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:19.679
Maxwell and O'Brien.

1276
00:58:19.739 --> 00:58:25.199
Um, which is why peace is so important for, because he, like he

1277
00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:26.519
just underplays here.

1278
00:58:26.579 --> 00:58:29.400
Like, he doesn't do his usual sort of plum lecture thing.

1279
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:31.019
He's just, I don't know.

1280
00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:33.420
And I, I like...

1281
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:35.460
There is like an underlying, there is an anger in his voice.

1282
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:36.840
I like, you know?

1283
00:58:36.900 --> 00:58:41.820
I like the line and again, I think it's really ripe. which is

1284
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:45.599
loyalty like that doesn't come easily to my people.

1285
00:58:45.659 --> 00:58:49.260
And I like that line for some reason.

1286
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:51.360
It's a cheesy Star Trek line.

1287
00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:53.940
At least they're acknowledging it, you know.

1288
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:54.599
Yeah.

1289
00:58:54.659 --> 00:58:55.380
Yeah.

1290
00:58:55.500 --> 00:59:02.219
Yes, I just love the best line in this whole scene. is an unspoken

1291
00:59:02.219 --> 00:59:04.380
line when Picard turns his back.

1292
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:05.940
It's amazing.

1293
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:09.239
The thing is that Maxwell was right as well.

1294
00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:15.239
Like Maxwell, like it's exactly the same evidence that Maxwell

1295
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:18.179
Maxwell said that it can't be a scientific base because it's right

1296
00:59:18.179 --> 00:59:21.300
in this strategic spot and that's exactly what Picard says.

1297
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:23.159
So he was 100% right.

1298
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:26.099
Fucking annoying because I don't pick up on it.

1299
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:27.960
There's a story there to be told.

1300
00:59:28.019 --> 00:59:30.840
Yeah, I mean, just go, well, that wasn't done.

1301
00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:31.800
Let's ignore that.

1302
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:36.659
Well, but it brings the Kardassians in and they do become a thing

1303
00:59:36.659 --> 00:59:42.000
and obviously they're massively beefed up. in, like, what, next

1304
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:42.539
year?

1305
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:43.559
the year after.

1306
00:59:43.619 --> 00:59:44.400
No, hang on.

1307
00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:46.980
We've seen the pajoras already at the beginning of season four.

1308
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:47.940
Or was it season five?

1309
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:49.440
season five.

1310
00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:53.519
But it adds a lot of context to Amazon.

1311
00:59:53.579 --> 00:59:55.800
Yeah. these scenes are great.

1312
00:59:55.860 --> 00:59:57.179
Look at him.

1313
00:59:57.179 --> 00:59:58.320
Now he goes, turning around.

1314
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:01.019
That reaction, the just the book that passes between them.

1315
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:05.159
It's really good I never wanted to fuck Patrick Stewart.

1316
01:00:05.219 --> 01:00:06.840
That moment, honestly.

1317
01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:08.400
So good.

1318
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:09.239
Yeah.

1319
01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:10.860
Oh my god, fantastic.

1320
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:14.219
Yeah, he just gives him a big lecture and then he walks out.

1321
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:14.880
It's awesome.

1322
01:00:14.940 --> 01:00:18.840
We've highlighted quite a few things that were wrong with that

1323
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:22.800
episode, but compared to a lot of TNG, we talked about, there was

1324
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:27.000
so much to say there, you know, which means that the content was

1325
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:29.400
there, even if the execution wasn't always perfect.

1326
01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:35.880
Well, I think it aspires to be about something and it still has a

1327
01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:37.380
space problem, doesn't it?

1328
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:40.139
But it's a space problem that sort of has a human cause and a

1329
01:00:40.139 --> 01:00:41.219
human solution.

1330
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:49.380
And it's making space be a bit more like, A bit more like Earth

1331
01:00:49.380 --> 01:00:51.900
where there are different countries with different agendas and

1332
01:00:51.900 --> 01:00:54.179
different ways of interacting with all that. trying to plot out

1333
01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:55.199
the quadrant now, aren't they?

1334
01:00:55.260 --> 01:00:57.599
They're trying to really give us a sense of location.

1335
01:00:57.659 --> 01:00:58.860
Yeah.

1336
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:03.000
And like that has its pros and cons, you know, you lose the

1337
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:07.380
strange new world aspects of things if, uh, if everything's a

1338
01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:12.059
little bit too determined and everywhere's kind of known, but I

1339
01:01:12.059 --> 01:01:13.380
think this works really well.

1340
01:01:13.619 --> 01:01:15.539
The problem with it is, isn't it?

1341
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:18.239
Is that if you, then, I don't know, if you plot out the entire

1342
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:19.559
Apple quadrant as they do.

1343
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:23.639
And TNG does a lot of background work, but you're a show that goes

1344
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:24.840
from place to place every week.

1345
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:28.260
You're only going back to those places every now and again to

1346
01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:28.980
catch up with it.

1347
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:33.179
So it's really hard to have what you need is a show. sorry.

1348
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:36.119
It's a show that's set in one location.

1349
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:38.699
And there are consequences.

1350
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:43.980
But I will always say TNG did a lot of background work, you know

1351
01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:45.659
and it's in episodes like this.

1352
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:47.159
Nathan, will you indulge me?

1353
01:01:47.219 --> 01:01:50.760
I'd like to throw out a quote from Jerry Taylor about this

1354
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:51.059
episode.

1355
01:01:51.179 --> 01:01:54.420
It might give you a little bit of context as to what they were

1356
01:01:54.420 --> 01:01:55.440
going for in this episode.

1357
01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:57.480
You tell me if you think it was a success.

1358
01:01:57.539 --> 01:01:58.679
Okay.

1359
01:01:58.739 --> 01:02:00.960
So Jerry Taylor notes.

1360
01:02:01.019 --> 01:02:04.139
It was a sort of heart of darkness with the rogue captain out of

1361
01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:04.860
control.

1362
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:09.059
It started with the idea that if you had at war. sorry, if you've

1363
01:02:09.059 --> 01:02:11.760
been at war with a country and now you're not at war with them

1364
01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:14.039
anymore, you can't just immediately become friends.

1365
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:17.880
If you're trained to look at people as the enemy, it's hard to

1366
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:20.159
know how to be their friends.

1367
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:24.300
While in the 24th century, people have a much more expansive view

1368
01:02:24.300 --> 01:02:26.639
of the galaxy and are able to do it a little better.

1369
01:02:26.699 --> 01:02:30.480
We planted the idea that some people had just a little more

1370
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:33.539
residual problem with that sort of thing and harboured some

1371
01:02:33.539 --> 01:02:34.380
resentment.

1372
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:38.219
It's a very provocative kind of idea to get into.

1373
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:41.219
The material was somewhat epic in nature.

1374
01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:45.360
I'm sure, which was always fun to do, and yet at its call was a

1375
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:49.260
very personal story between him and Picard, where 2 strong people

1376
01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:53.639
Sorry, we're too strong and able people tee off against each

1377
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:53.880
other.

1378
01:02:53.940 --> 01:02:58.260
So I think their emphasis was on Picard and Massette, rather than

1379
01:02:58.260 --> 01:03:00.239
O'Brien and Maxwell.

1380
01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:02.880
But I thought that that was Picard and Maxwell, though.

1381
01:03:02.940 --> 01:03:07.320
I thought that it's Maxwell who can't, like, that's what I assumed

1382
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:08.039
that she was talking about.

1383
01:03:08.099 --> 01:03:12.659
But the problem is that then it relies on this central performance

1384
01:03:12.659 --> 01:03:14.099
that just doesn't work.

1385
01:03:14.219 --> 01:03:18.659
And the idea that people are traumatised by war isn't all that

1386
01:03:18.659 --> 01:03:19.800
interesting, really.

1387
01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:22.800
I mean, it's a thing that happens, but it's not a, you know

1388
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:25.679
exciting insight that hasn't occurred to anyone.

1389
01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:27.900
What is the heart of darkness?

1390
01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:34.079
Oh, you know, the Joseph Conrad novel, you know, like, and so it's

1391
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:38.519
the idea, I use the example of Ahab, you know, like this man needs

1392
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:42.960
to be damaged and he needs to be slightly kind of dark and out of

1393
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:45.300
control and he doesn't manage that.

1394
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:48.539
He just seems like an obnoxious football coach.

1395
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:50.699
You know, like, and that's the problem.

1396
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:56.400
It's not epic because the guest actor can't bring the epic.

1397
01:03:56.460 --> 01:04:00.239
It's also not epic because it's on the standing sense with no

1398
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:00.659
special effects.

1399
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.280
Oh, that's true.

1400
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:13.079
All right, it's time for us to pick our story for next episode.

1401
01:04:13.139 --> 01:04:19.260
So, Joe, explain to us which series we're going to be watching and

1402
01:04:19.260 --> 01:04:19.500
why.

1403
01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:25.619
As ever, Nathan, I am taking us towards an area of Star Trek that

1404
01:04:25.619 --> 01:04:30.059
you adore and I'm ambivalent about, and that is the Kurtzman era

1405
01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:30.780
of Trek.

1406
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:35.099
However, I've selected 3 series, which I feel are underrepresented

1407
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:38.340
simply because there aren't that many episodes of them, but I just

1408
01:04:38.340 --> 01:04:39.119
want to talk about them again.

1409
01:04:39.179 --> 01:04:44.760
So I have chosen Star Trek, Lower Decks, Star Trek, Prodigy, and

1410
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:46.860
Star Trek, Strange New Worlds.

1411
01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:49.019
Oh, okay, that's exciting.

1412
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:49.739
All right.

1413
01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:51.599
Okay, well, press the button then.

1414
01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:54.059
I won't know what any of them are.

1415
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:55.679
So you're going to have to help me out here, okay?

1416
01:04:55.739 --> 01:05:00.900
Okey-dokey, your random Star Trek Lower Decks episode is no small

1417
01:05:00.900 --> 01:05:01.980
parts.

1418
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.139
Season one, episode 10.

1419
01:05:04.380 --> 01:05:07.440
Oh, so that's the series finale.

1420
01:05:07.500 --> 01:05:10.500
Oh my god, it's not the one where they're fighting round the ship

1421
01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:11.880
to resolve their issues.

1422
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:15.659
No, in fact, I think...

1423
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.139
This is, yeah, I think that's like episode 9 or something.

1424
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:22.380
Like, it is quite close to the end of the series, that 1st series

1425
01:05:22.380 --> 01:05:22.679
I think.

1426
01:05:22.739 --> 01:05:24.659
But this is the series finale.

1427
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:27.480
Something quite surprising happens in it and we get to meet the

1428
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.219
big bad for season two.

1429
01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:32.400
And of course, it's as funny as anything.

1430
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:34.320
But, uh...

1431
01:05:34.380 --> 01:05:38.820
And I really want to do a lower decks episode, but I've already

1432
01:05:38.820 --> 01:05:39.900
pressed upon again.

1433
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.139
Sorry.

1434
01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:41.519
That's right.

1435
01:05:41.519 --> 01:05:42.840
Oh, okay.

1436
01:05:42.900 --> 01:05:45.780
It might have to be the one, you know, because I am desperate to

1437
01:05:45.780 --> 01:05:48.599
watch more Strange New Worlds or to at least be forced to do it.

1438
01:05:48.840 --> 01:05:54.179
This is season one, episode seven, the Serene Squall.

1439
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:55.800
Holy shit.

1440
01:05:55.860 --> 01:05:56.880
This is so good.

1441
01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:59.219
It's really, really great.

1442
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:00.599
And what's the price?

1443
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:06.059
Um, so it's about pirates.

1444
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:14.280
Space pirates who are attacking colonists, and we have to defeat

1445
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:14.639
them.

1446
01:06:14.699 --> 01:06:20.579
It has a guest actor who, unlike this week's episode of Star Trek

1447
01:06:20.579 --> 01:06:25.440
the next generation, is nothing short of absolutely spectacular

1448
01:06:25.860 --> 01:06:28.019
and to brings in it.

1449
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.159
It's so good.

1450
01:06:29.219 --> 01:06:30.360
It's a really good.

1451
01:06:30.420 --> 01:06:34.619
You know, is it actually like a pirate style story because I've

1452
01:06:34.619 --> 01:06:36.179
never met one of those I've really enjoyed.

1453
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:38.340
Oh, you wait. really good.

1454
01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:41.699
Well, that I'm saying, the serene squall, because I want to watch

1455
01:06:41.699 --> 01:06:42.719
more stranger than it was.

1456
01:06:42.780 --> 01:06:45.239
That pilot was phenomenal.

1457
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:45.900
Okay.

1458
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:46.980
This is really good as well.

1459
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:47.639
You'll love it.

1460
01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:48.360
Can't wait.

1461
01:06:56.099 --> 01:07:00.300
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1462
01:07:00.300 --> 01:07:01.559
and Nathan Bottomley.

1463
01:07:01.619 --> 01:07:04.980
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1464
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:07.380
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1465
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:10.860
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1466
01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:12.539
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1467
01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:17.219
This episode was recorded on the 21st of July 2022 and released on

1468
01:07:17.219 --> 01:07:18.360
the 22nd of July.

1469
01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:22.860
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Strange New Worlds, the

1470
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:24.000
Serene Squall.

1471
01:07:39.900 --> 01:07:43.380
Hang on, you just give me a second, 'cause I actually set up the

1472
01:07:43.380 --> 01:07:43.679
episode.

1473
01:07:43.739 --> 01:07:44.880
Give me one second.

1474
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:50.699
Look, he's called...

1475
01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:53.039
Lonely, lonely among us.

1476
01:07:53.099 --> 01:07:54.119
He's not great, is it?

1477
01:07:54.179 --> 01:07:54.719
Look.

1478
01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:56.639
No, he's not.

1479
01:07:56.699 --> 01:07:57.539
Is he?

1480
01:07:57.539 --> 01:07:58.079
Here he is.

1481
01:07:58.679 --> 01:08:01.380
Oh, let me say, hang on.

1482
01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:02.039
Oh, no.

1483
01:08:04.500 --> 01:08:06.719
That's the one. to turn the thing off.

1484
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:11.099
It was a great meal, Lieutenant.

1485
01:08:12.900 --> 01:08:14.699
He's really funny.

1486
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:17.100
Oh, one second.

1487
01:08:17.819 --> 01:08:21.479
Oh, wow, future imperfects in this season as well?

1488
01:08:21.539 --> 01:08:22.560
Yeah, yeah.

1489
01:08:22.619 --> 01:08:25.979
Oh, no, night terrors as well. are you?

1490
01:08:26.340 --> 01:08:28.859
It's got Deanna's bum in it.

1491
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:31.260
That's what it means by one.

1492
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:33.359
Of course you do being contrary.

1493
01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:34.680
Okay, hang on.

1494
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:40.859
I'll try to slip some of my quotes in for a memory alpha as we go

1495
01:08:40.859 --> 01:08:42.960
because like quite long in then.

1496
01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:45.720
Make sure.

1497
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:47.819
Yes, I'm ready.

1498
01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:48.539
I have to watch it.

1499
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:50.520
I watched a DVD downstairs in SD.

1500
01:08:50.579 --> 01:08:52.140
Oh, it looked very funny.

1501
01:08:52.260 --> 01:08:54.479
I think this is high def.

1502
01:08:54.539 --> 01:08:57.239
I think this is the updated special effects version.

1503
01:08:58.020 --> 01:08:59.399
Okay.

1504
01:08:59.460 --> 01:09:00.720
All right.

1505
01:09:01.140 --> 01:09:03.479
Okay, so here we go.

1506
01:09:03.539 --> 01:09:06.677
Five, four, three.