Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this is a very special episode for you and me, isn't it?
Because in some ways, Bata Bing batter bang is responsible for the
birth of this very podcast.
It is, yes.
I was planning on creating an offshoot of my podcast, Hammersmith
Blunt Penknife, bringing in contributors to choose other shows
than Doctor Who and their top 10 favourite episodes of whatever
show they pick.
We chose between us, DS9, and your top 10 list came through, and
may I say it was a very eclectic list of episodes.
A huge controversial.
It was a controversial list.
Well, it was the correct answer to the question.
Well, indeed.
It did include, it did include things like the visitor and stuff
and things like that.
It also included take me out to the Hall of Suite and Bada bang.
And did it include in the Pale Moonlight because I think we
contributed 5 each?
May have.
I'm not sure But certainly take me out to the Hollow Suite was
one.
And this was one and we tried to record an episode on this.
I remember watching it sort of frantically trying to finish my 2nd
watching just before recording started.
And, uh, and something didn't work out.
I can't remember what exactly.
I don't think it was recorded, but somehow, between us doing the
1st episode we recorded and this one that we didn't, untitled Star
Trek project was born.
Well, I think it was born.
My memory is that it was actually born in the conversation that we
had after we discovered we weren't going to be able to record it
for some reason and I can't remember what the reason was.
But initially, we'd had ideas of going through all of Deep Space.
Yeah.
But, you know, I mean, there is the podcast Random Trek by Scott
McNulty, please call me Scott.
Call us.
Scott.
And so it's not entirely an original idea, but I guess we're doing
a commentary and we're choosing it on air.
So we have some kind of accountability.
So this, for me, is one of my favourite ones because one of the
things that I like is when Star Trek kind of goes off piece and
does something a little bit unusual.
And it is possible to imagine a heist episode of Star Trek just
played straight, but having it played in this sort of ocean's 11
kind of way is terrific.
It's hugely stylish, isn't it?
It allows them to really like lean into the era.
Like, there's a quote on a memory alpha where, I think it's Renee
Eshire Vere says, we don't do call in Star Trek very much.
We don't do it very well.
No, they're not cool.
But this is one time where we made, you know, where they're
walking across a promenade, and they're all in their finery, about
to go into the casino with that riff on the DS9 theme playing, and
he goes, and that was just insanely cool, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
And I think too, you know, there's a tendency for fans in
particular because we have been a persecuted minority watching
sort of weird ass things that everyone else thinks are kind of
stupid.
We kind of get very self-conscious about whether something that we
watch is silly or not.
And that's absolutely the wrong approach to take with Star Trek.
Star Trek is frequently silly.
You know, even Strange New Worlds, which is a well-made, beautiful
looking modern program, just very frequently goes, ah, we're doing
Star Trek, remember, it's got to be silly.
And so I don't think this is any less serious or less important
than the weighty episodes.
Uh, you know, that are about the world.
I think this is probably an Ira Bears quote as saying on memory
alpha, that these episodes, these funny, charming episodes that
raise a laugh are far harder to put together than the visitor in
the Power Moon.
Like, that's just people talking in rooms.
Here, you've got to get the editing right, the music right.
It's got to be funny, you've got to put a bit of them for energy
into the script.
The actors have got to deliver it like perfectly if it's a
comedy.
And I feel DS 9.
It is quite serious for the most part, and it's dealing with a lot
of serious things.
But when they do a comedy.
They utterly commit to the genre that they are playing out.
So if they're going to do a bond pastage.
They are going to rock a bottom passage.
They're going to do, you know, a high story in the 50s, then
they're really going to lean into it.
I don't think there's a DS9 comedy beyond profit and lace, which
is very misjudged.
That actually doesn't succeed.
It is very offensive.
Yeah.
Well, you know, also we're in a situation now where we're about to
enter a run of like 10 episodes that's highly serialised that
leads up to the finale and that wraps up all of these plot threads
that have developed over the past 7 years.
And so this is, in a way, our last chance for hang time with these
people.
Yeah, and just to have a lot of fun, those 10 episodes are
incredibly darker times than serious.
And I can't think of anything more 4th wall than Avery Brooks and
James Darren at the end of this episode singing the best is yet to
come.
Yeah.
And then looking straight out of the audience and smiling.
Yeah, it's great.
Look, I think it's as charming as hell.
I'm absolutely excited to watch it again.
But before we go in, yeah, I've got a question I want to ask you
because my other half is not a Star Trek fan and a friend of ours
Siheart, who has kind of dipped into Star Trek. both find the idea
of these holodeck episodes, all of them, without fail, agonising
and that it's embarrassing that the show is, you know, departing
from what they should be doing.
Like, you know, here in the middle of a war.
They spending time helping out Vic Fontaine.
Yeah.
And I think you've got something to say about that.
Well, it just, it strikes me that that point of view is the point
of view expressed by Cisco in this episode where he initially, and
there's a reason for it, it's not what it is on the surface, but
he initially is slightly irritated by the fact that they're all
talking about this computer game and that they're all talking
about Vic like he's a real person.
And so for some people.
Because remember the thing here is the safeties don't
malfunction.
Nothing goes wrong on the holodeck.
And that's deliberate.
He says, we deliberately didn't want to do a holodeck in
jeopardy.
We just wanted them to go in and, you know, basically and but help
their friend as well.
You know.
Yeah, yeah.
And and the thing is too, that in the context of a television
program, Vic Fontaine is as real as everyone else on the show, you
know, he's just an actor playing a part just like all of the
others.
And if we care what happens to Cisco and Kira and Odo, if we can
be emotionally affected by what ends up happening to them or cross
you know, when things don't turn out for them the way we envisaged
then how is that different from them owing Vic Fontaine things, you
know?
It's not at all.
In fact, I've got a quote for you here, and it's my favourite
quote I've ever handed you, okay?
So it says on memory effort.
In fact, I receive them bear. saw the story. something of his
commentary on how invested Star Trek fans can become in the
characters in the same way that viewers have invested in the
artifice of Star Trek and care about the characters who aren't
real.
We decided to do about a show about our characters care about the
thick.
So it's absolutely in the DNA of this episode, what you just
said.
Yeah.
And one of the things that the holodeck is always enabled is that
it has allowed us a visual way to depict the characters having
downtime and being entertained.
And, you know, we watch TV.
We read books, but you don't see people on TV watching TV and
reading books because that would be boring to look at.
And so this makes that visible to a TV viewing audience.
And it's very frequently used, even in non-holodeck episodes.
We see people on the holodeck and that's used as a device to tell
us how they're feeling or what they're thinking about.
Do you know what?
I hit my other behalf.
I said, yeah, you think it's terrible at the day, go off onto the
holodeck into this fancy world and blah, blah.
And I said, well, how's that any different from you?
Dressing up as your favourite character from Doctor Who and going
to a convention?
Is exactly the same thing.
Now shut him up.
Exactly.
Yeah.
But there's also another quote very quickly.
I want to read to you Because this was something that I had
considered going in.
I think initially I found Cisco bringing up the idea of black
people populating Vic's lounge in the 1950s when that absolutely
isn't what would have happened a bit on the nose.
But DeWitt, Douglas Kilgore, I'm not sure who that is.
It's quoted as saying the situation is remarkable, not only as a
scene in Star Trek, but also in the world of commercial
television.
Cisco is not explaining himself to a white outsider, human or
alien, but to a woman from his own background.
He includes her in his historical concerns through his use of the
possessive pronoun hour.
And Yates responds in kind, putting forth a different perspective
from within their shared community of concern.
Rank and gender, introduce complicating dynamics, but the communal
rhetoric is a bit wordy, this.
The communal rhetoric renders the debate as internal, indicative
of how black people position themselves both in the productive
reality of the show and in the fictive future of its narrative.
Crucially, these black characters are allowed to remember and
speak in a way that was unavailable to Uhura and Zulu 2 decades
earlier.
The production environment for racial representation has changed
that much at least.
Because that ends up being the big thing about Deep Space 9
doesn't it?
Because every main character. everyone in the opening titles has a
group of secondary characters surrounding them.
And for Cisco, that's his son and his girlfriend, both of whom are
black.
And so the reason that Ahura never had these conversations was
there were basically no other black regulars or semi-regulars on
the cast.
So there was no one that she could talk to about that.
And what it would have been, would be a black character explaining
to a white character for the benefit of a predominantly white
audience.
And so it would still have centred white people.
And I think that political discussion is actually really properly
great.
And it's still...
We adds a little substance to what's a bit of fluff, really
doesn't it?
Yeah, but I mean, it's still an issue.
I don't know whether we've talked about colourblind casting before
on the podcast or not.
I don't think we have no.
No, probably not.
But things like Bridgerton, for instance, where it's set in the
regency period, but there's heaps of black characters and race
doesn't kind of come up.
I know it's sort of comes up.
But it doesn't really come up.
And that kind of erases black people's experience in how black
people's history differs from white people's history.
It just says, and look, colourblind casting enables you to cast
fantastic black actors.
Look at the David Copperpell that came out.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's right, with Dave Patel. amazing.
He was terrific in that.
And so you do want to do it because there are lots of historical
stories, but this kind of critiques that.
So we have a version of the 50s or 60s in Las Vegas where not only
are there black characters, but there are sort of aliens and
everything like that and no one cares, and that does need to be
addressed.
I think the episode does need to address it because otherwise it's
kind of whitewashing history.
But also as well, it's a fantasy environment.
So Cassidy's argument that it just depicts things how they should
have been.
That's a valid enough answer, you know?
Yeah, I think so too.
But I think Cisco is right to be a bit thing about it.
And I really like how Koi is about it.
He doesn't want to have the conversation he just presents as being
a bit grumpy about his senior staff spending so much time and
effort on something that excludes him.
He's never been depicted at Vic's before.
You know, they did that because Iobear says that they deliberately
had Cisco critiquing Vig, because they wanted him to be the voice
of the fans that were so against that character.
And they were like, they were like, if we can win Cisco over
throughout this episode, maybe and make it a, you know, a great
fun episode, then maybe we'll take the fans with us.
And I think a lot of them got there, you know.
And, you know, we've talked about fiction here.
We've talked about race.
Let's not forget this episode also is about them dressing up in
fabulous clothes and robbing £1000000 from the mob, which is...
It's so great.
And it's absolutely a proper heist. really cool. should we?
I think we should.
I am ready.
All right.
Shame we can't hear the music because for ones, you can't
criticise the music for once.
Go on, admit it. sort of.
So, it's a fantastic score.
Yeah, but I think I think it highlights the fact that they've
deliberately chosen elsewhere to make the music as boring as
possible and then they kind of go, actually let's get some real
atmosphere happening here and do that with the music.
And it just makes me think you could have been doing that.
And interestingly, this is the episode that wins the award for
music.
Yeah, well, there's completely only one that could.
That's completely unlike anything else they do.
Yeah, well, they don't give an award for a 52nd sting that leads
into a commercial break normally.
All right.
I'm gonna canvass in.
I'm going to count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Off we go.
We have a focus on a...
Yeah.
Jimmy Darrett is charming as hell, isn't he?
Yeah, he really is.
And like, he's a good singer.
He's terribly charming.
He's obviously doing a sort of Frank Sinatra thing here.
And that thing we've talked about before, that extension of them
loving the work. absolutely beams off the screen.
You can tell, they love working with him.
He loves working with them.
And let's not forget, he had to be convinced to do this because he
initially said, oh, I don't want to do Star Trek and I don't want
to do singing either because I've done that, that part of my
career is over.
And then he got the script for his way.
And he was like, get my agent on the phone.
Quick, I want to do this.
Yeah, he was super excited.
He wasn't the only person they considered and they did actually
briefly consider Frank Sinatra Jr. who was around in a bit of a
Star Trek fan.
So I can't remember why that didn't turn out.
But you know what, you always think they use him?
They use him extremely well.
Like, I think in his way, obviously that the purpose there is to
bring, and Kira together.
They have him singing a wonderful song in Tears and the Prophets.
Here's to the losers when Hawk and Bashir. have both lost backs
and they're going to have a baby.
Um, to help Wolf get over his grief in imaging the sand.
And then, uh, for Nog, when he lost his leg, in his only a paper
moon.
I mean, it's not all fluff.
No, and that end.
I mean, that song, the way you look tonight, which I just think is
beautiful.
The way Kira smiles at him when he comes out, it's...
I think that that is a super affecting final scene, and his
inclusion in the show is worth it just for that, I think.
So now it's been turned into a sort of early 60s style kind of
burlesque sex thing with all of these attractive ladies.
It's the pornniest music I've ever heard come into TV.
Okay, sleazy as hell, you know, and they're mucky.
Look at them putting their legs in the air and their stockings all
on display. so good And so we've now got Frankie Ines, who's our
villain and Cheech.
He's big dumb henchman.
They are stereotypes, but they cast them brilliantly.
Oh, like they're comedy, you know, they're comedy mobsters.
And, you know, Frankie I is a bit threatening, but certainly
Cheech is a sort of comedy sidekick.
I mean, it literally has a cartoon scene later where he shoves a
cheesesteak all the way down a man's throat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Straight out of a bloody comic.
I love this as well though.
I love the fact because we've been having these conversations
about Bashir's friend giving him all these different programs all
the time and that.
So it's not unusual.
Felix, yeah, to to spring this jack in the box on them and say
right, put your way out of this.
I love this.
I love that, that, uh, Miles wants to delete them from the program
so he says, computer, delete character Frankie Eisen, sorry I
didn't catch your name.
And so the guy tells him he's cheat and he tries to delete him and
obviously...
It says in that accent, doesn't he?
What's a holo sweets?
Yeah.
Goodness, no.
You know, you always say to me, in the pre-credit sequence, you
need to know what the episode's going to be about and you
absolutely do here, you know?
Well, in fact, the last shot, the final shot is Sheesh, isn't it?
Holding, holding Vic by the lapels about to sort of shake him in
what is a sort of comedy, you know, it's light.
It's...
It's Ocean's 11.
And this is obviously well before the Ocean's 11 remakes came
about.
It's the original Ocean's 11. which was, again, getting a cast of
just great actors together to do a heist movie and have a lot of
fun, and that's what this is.
And when I was watching this, like, for the 3rd time this week
because I love it so much.
I was like, okay, this is actually all just set in one room.
You know, it's clearly like a contained set, but it's being shot
kind of so imaginatively and with such energy that you don't kind
of notice, you know?
So the opening credits are as slow as usual.
Yeah, this is the one part of the episode is a little bit dreary
unfortunately.
Nice sedate.
But I'll tell you one thing I did notice about this episode
again.
Watch as we go through.
One was the very suffuse lighting throughout.
And the dinner scene between Cisco and Cassidy's candle lit, all
the scenes in Vic's.
It's got it's got a nice sort of glow about it, this episode.
But also the intimacy between the regulars and how much they touch
each other and how this, you know, we watched Dramatis Persona the
other day.
And I know they were behaving a bit out of character.
But, you know, there was no sense of sort of family or community.
Here.
It feels like one big family.
And I love the fact that before we go into those 10 episodes at
the end.
We get them all at the bar having a moment together, you know, it's
lovely.
Yeah, I agree.
It's one of the things you can do with these ensemble shows.
Is every now and again.
Sorry.
Well, particularly this ensemble show though, because everyone's
so strong.
And, you know, we even have people who aren't in the opening
credits like Cassidy and Nog playing a huge part because they're
just part of the thing.
I love the fact that Cassidy's presence in this.
It'd take me out to the holo suite.
Oh, right, she's coming back to the station.
I going to get her involved in the baseball.
She's just in there straight away, you know?
With no question.
We know she does a Cisco. yeah.
And that's the best thing about the one of the best things about
the last 2 seasons that she suddenly had a massively active part
in the show.
And boy, did she bring some charisma with her?
She's so good.
We've talked about the or before.
I still haven't watched any of series 3 and she is the best person
in it, I think, easily.
She's so great.
Just terrifically strong.
Okay, so now here's our scene in Ops.
And everyone's talking about Vic.
And it is, it is if they're watching.
It as if they're all watching a TV show.
You know, one of those TV shows that suddenly everyone's watching
and talking about and that's when that used to happen.
No, no.
That actually happened to me in my old workplace, when everyone
was talking about EastEnders.
And I walked into the road and everyone's terribly concerned about
this person they're talking about.
And I went, oh God, who's this?
And I was like, oh, sorry, we're talking about EastEnders last
night.
But it was as real as this, you know?
Yeah.
I like the quick reminder of all the good that it's done for
everybody.
And it's one of those, you know, we're going to catch you up with
where this character's been in case you haven't watched before.
Yeah, and it's, it's not, it's not tired exposition.
Like it is, it's worth having.
It's kind of worth having in the episode even if it wasn't here to
catch us up.
I do love the bit where Cisco just walks in, no, and goes, well
when you're going to go back to work.
Come on.
Yeah.
He's, he's, you know, my other half and Sihar.
Stop arsing around talking about hollow sweets, you know?
That's right.
What do you think of Kira's season 7 look?
I don't like the hair, but I do like... do like the outfit.
I love it when they put her in the Starfleet uniform in the last
couple of episodes.
Oh, okay.
I'd forgotten that happens.
Is that what they do?
Oh, she looks sad.
She is hell in that uniform, Jack.
Yeah.
There's a couple of times where this happens, you know, not
because I realise there's a, there's an episode where Kira is the
one where she finds out that her mum potentially has been having
it off with Dakart in the past.
And they're all, they're all chatting away about something
ridiculous and she walks in and she's like, I'm waiting for you
all to go back to work.
And it's just little moments like that that I love.
It feels very real, you know?
Yeah.
I don't think you'd have it in the next generation, you know?
They wouldn't be having a fun conversation in the 1st place.
No, that's right.
Or a kind of terrible fun conversation or voyager the same, you
know, like they're just not as cohesive enough a team.
Now, Nathan, we were talking the other day that there was no, there
was no mature relationships in 90s Trek.
Exhibit 8.
This is the one.
Yeah.
I think this is the one.
I think Tom and Balana is insufferable almost impossible to
watch.
But these 2 are really great.
Let's not even go into 7 and Chakotay, eh?
Oh, yuck.
Thank God we only have a couple of episodes of that.
But like, I've heard reviewers. say that this is a very boring
relationship, but I think they have like honest and like real
conversations, you know, about marriage, about settling down.
They have a troubled start with their relationship.
I love the episode.
Do you remember the episode where she says she's going to move on
the station and he says, that's a big step.
And she's like, what do you mean by that?
It's a big step.
And then she goes through him. you are afraid of commitment.
But like, remember the last time we did a series 7 episode, he was
trying to manipulate her into coaching the team.
She just wanted to vote by bringing flowers.
Yeah, that's right.
You know, like it's, it is proper and sensible and not
adolescent.
Oh, here we are.
This is as high stakes as we get here because he comes out now
covered in blood, doesn't he?
Yeah, but of course he's fake and so is the blood.
But we like fake.
We don't want him to get beat up.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's right.
That's right.
Felix is a nasty man honestly.
Yeah.
Well, I don't think he was expecting Vic to become self-aware
probably, when he wrote the program.
Oh, man.
See, everyone's sort of their their usual D space 9 characters at
the moment, but later on when they're in the heist, they really
get into their roles, don't they?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, they're there in their uniforms and stuff just so that we
know that it's Star Trek.
I mean, the fact that this is a very Star Trek looking set is a
usual brown colours.
And then the characterised 90s track.
But, you know, like with gorgeous 60s furniture in the background
within the TV over Julian's left shoulder.
It is only a paper moon.
It's all very sort of art deco.
It's beautiful to look at. like something that's come out of, you
know, a Bond movie.
Yeah.
No, I mean, that's the thing.
This era has just never been anything other than immensely stylish
and incredibly stylish.
And, you know, 90 strike has a pretty bad record with casual
clothes, doesn't it?
They always.
They look terrible.
I can't think of anyone who wore any clothes that I would wear, you
know.
They all look a bit, you know, that that awful kid in that time
travel episode of Voyager, that, like, they've come out of the gap
and it's all just all weird colours and that, you know?
But when it is successful, it kind of, you know, goes with the
idea that Star Trek was created in the 60s and so the casual
clothes should kind of have a bit of a 60s feel to them and that
does kind of work, I think.
Like, you know that scene later on, that glorious moment where
they're going down the promenade in slow motion to the revised DS
9.
I want to see how they're dressed.
I want to fuck every single one of them.
I'm telling you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All of them.
Oh, here we go.
The sleazy girls are back.
So I adore this scene.
So this is them scoping out the place prior to our, you know, the
get plan explained to a scene.
Go, don't, Kira.
This is adorable.
This is another grown-up adult scene because he's staring at the
ladies, the sexy ladies on the stage and instead of being
irritated by that, Kira just thinks it's adorable and hilarious
and she smiles, that beautiful nun of visitor smile and just pats
him on the shoulder and says, you have fun.
I'll go and do my thing.
It's adorable.
So they can't do it. grown-up sexuality can do it.
I want you, you compare it to like that, you know, god awful
juvenile jealousy between Tom Paris and Neelix and stuff like
that.
It's like, oh, that's the other end of the scale, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, this is fun when he when he does his little hand trick.
Oh no, is it not quite yet?
No, but the, like, so Cheech is talking to a bunch of other
mobsters and telling a hilarious tale about how you whacked the
wrong guy, which is because they're awful.
They're all called poorly.
Too many guards, too...
Oh, look at Kira, doesn't she look hot?
Yeah, beautiful.
Oh, look at her hair now.
All up with a little tiara holding it in together.
Yeah, yeah, beautiful.
And just beautifully 60s as well.
It's wonderful.
Doesn't this feel very bond, you know, with the casino in there
and everything.
Yeah.
But, I mean, Do you know what?
Some of this dialogue is threatening the guy.
No, look at a minute, where she goes, my talent lies in another
direction.
Oh, that's a good title for a book.
Maybe I'll buy it from you.
I was going, oh God.
Yeah, but it should be ripe and cliche because it is a cheesy
heist movie someplot on the holodeck that Felix has written for
them.
I think Felix has got a little taste of melodrama, you know, is
there at the keyboard, you know?
Yeah, but I mean, you know, the show does science fiction cliches
when it's playing it straight.
And so when it's doing a heist movie, it's got to do the heist
movie. tropes and cliches and that way of speaking.
I think it's really great.
And it's not the sort of dialogue you normally get in Star Trek
Deep Place 9.
That's what's fun about it.
It's not crap.
It's cheesy.
You know, it's cheesy and kind of period and cliched and stuff.
Oh, no, no, the dialogue.
But it's absolutely what you've got.
Here's, you know, one special effect for Budder Bing Bellabang
special effect, he goes.
Odo's hand.
Elongating to reach a glass.
It's not very good, is it?
I'm not sure why that would convince them that he's a sound guy
that he can stretch his arm out like that.
No, I just think it's...
But he does get the fabulous nickname stretch.
Stretch, yeah.
So good.
Oh, and he brings in Edgerie, doesn't she?
She looks cute as a button, you know, cocktail waitress dress.
And again, her hair, her 60s hair is pretty great.
And honestly, at this point, Nicole de Boa is part of this
ensemble.
She's...
Yeah, well, we already saw that in hollow sweet, I think.
I think she's adorable.
Does she only gets really one episode, which is not all that great
isn't it?
It's like, oh, the one with the one with family business.
It may as well be an episode of family affairs.
It feels like, yeah.
It feels very sort of 3 o'clock in the afternoon drama, doesn't
it?
Yeah.
I can't remember what it's called.
I cannot remember what it's called.
It's called family business.
No, that's in season three.
What's it called?
It's it's before Emperor's New Cloak.
I see, absolutely, it's gone.
But she gets the, the one with giran, which I quite like.
The one after the opening 2 parter, where she's kind of
establishing herself on the station, and then she goes, Garak
takes her out by calling her pathetic.
Yeah.
And I think she gets that one other as well.
Well, I think she's always, I think she's very good, and I think
people give her a rough ride because she isn't Jazia.
Yeah.
Look, I mean, it was a shame that Terry Farrell left.
She's obviously terrific.
Imagine her in a cocktail dress.
Yeah, yeah.
But then what she goes and does Becca or something with Ted
Danson.
She realised...
For a while, but she gets kicked off it, I think.
I know, but she did enough seasons and you get enough per episode
I think, to justify not doing one more season of this.
Yeah, yeah.
I love all the look in their eye here, though. absolutely loving
the fact that they're going to have to pull one over on the mob
you know?
Yeah.
It's just...
Well, I love how they take it in a different direction and we
obviously lose something by not having Chadseer there because just
Terry Ferrell, so he's superbly great.
But I think Nicole DeBor is really, you know, she's sweet and sort
of elf and unlikeable and bubbly.
Very like that character on discovery, you know, a little bit
androgynous as well.
Oh, okay, like Adira.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and younger too than Terry, I think.
This is so great.
So they're going to steal a $1000000 from the mob.
It's a highest.
It's so, it's just charming as hell.
So we go to an ad break.
Oh, I did find that a bit a bit cringy, where they're all just
going, oh, ha, ha, ha, ha, we're going to have so much fun. you
know.
It's a bit like the scene in Take Me Out to the Hollow Suites.
Niners.
Woo!
I love that though.
I think the final scene's a bit cringe.
This one nails the end of it really well, I think.
Now, we've got this man in the count room here, but do you know
who's in the count room later on in the episode?
Yes, and I had forgotten, and I think that the 1st time you told
me who it was.
It's the only thought.
Surely not.
And then this time I thought, how the hell did I not notice that?
But you know what?
He didn't know at this point if Gowran was going to be in the last
10 episodes.
So he said to Ira Bear, can I please go under the pseudonym, sire
Nara.
Oh, all these scenes were Cassidy and this fabulously handsome
guard.
I love them so much.
Nathan, did you go there?
high school in Northfield, Carolina?
She's so great.
And she's doing a period accent as if she's like a, you know, like
a black woman in a, in a film from the 60s where she's kind of
really, she's absolutely playing the accent.
I mean, look, it's just alive.
She looks gorgeous.
She's beautiful.
She's also the best kind of the episode for me, which later on
when she goes.
I needed that money to buy a gift for my mama.
It's so funny.
So funny.
Oh, here we are.
Here's the Philadelphia cheese steak guy and cheese.
You are fired.
Yeah, we know we know he's a monster because you can shove a whole
state gun.
Oh, look at Ezra.
Yeah.
You know, you know when they sort of take off their tops and all
those spots go right down the neck.
Yeah, very sexy, isn't it?
I'm not quite sure why That happens.
We get naked men.
Don't we get naked trill guys in the holiday?
We go to the Herbition spa in Way of the Warrior, and there's 2
very muscly men that Kira goes off with at the end of the scene.
Yeah, imagine having the job of painting the spots on. rubbing
them off.
I volunteer, but they wouldn't have me.
They wouldn't have me.
In this state.
Okay.
So they're getting Esrie in now, so she's got, what's she going to
do?
She's going to poison the drinks.
Yeah, so it's complicated, but it's all very carefully, carefully
explained to us.
And the, you know, the convention is that you get a voiceover
explaining the role.
As we watch people doing the thing that they need to be doing so
that when it inevitably goes wrong, we know what's supposed to be
happening.
Like we can tell that it's gone wrong.
And then the smarts is how they improvise around those problems.
But it does mean as well that they have to, because this isn't
just a voiceover.
We get to see it as well.
Obviously it's television.
So they're having to film this bloody heist twice.
Yeah, yeah.
But that's standard.
That's what you do in a highest.
Do you see it go right while they do their voiceover explaining
the plot?
And then you see it go wrong when it actually happens?
There is another reason.
Sorry, go on, go on.
You know what?
I just think that's a bit unusual for Deep So for Star Trek in
this era because normally what you see on TV is what's happening.
You know, it's not normally things that people are imagining or
that kind of thing.
It's normally the cameras telling the truth in Star Trek, but not
here.
I was going to say, there is another motive behind doing these
holiday episodes, and that is that they have these agonisingly
long hours that they do this show for.
And this is a chance them to kick back and have a bit of fun, you
know?
And I think that's a good excuse as well.
Yeah, give the actors something fun to do.
And we talked about how, you know, possession acting sometimes
does that.
But this is, you know, a completely different premise.
Well, like, take me out to the holosuite.
It was like a sports team film, you know.
Here we go.
This is the scene.
Yeah, oh, this is, yeah, yeah.
And it feels like a probably adult conversation, doesn't it?
It doesn't get hysterical.
It's not a, come on, B'lana.
Talk to me.
Yeah, I mean, it's still very TVish. still a bit expositional, um
but like they both have very clear points of view, and they're
both correct in all sorts of ways.
You know, like they're, they both have true things to say.
I love other conventions. television.
Sorry.
It's just that we only need this scene between them.
We know Cisco is gonna be on board in the next scene, you know?
If he wasn't, then this episode wouldn't deliver, I don't think.
Yeah, I think maybe the one thing that a lie that it allides, which
is a little bit of a shame, is why does Cisco agree to help out?
And that look on Avery's face there is, he's acting like her.
Her final point has hit home that the only reason now someone
wouldn't be allowed in Vic's isn't because they're black, it's
because they...
And choosing not to be there.
They're choosing to be excluded, to continue to be excluded the
way that they would have been excluded in 1962.
And yeah, I don't know.
I think it would have been nice if his reason for going was that
he loved everyone here and wanted to hang out with them.
But I do like that objection, and I do understand the objection as
well.
Yeah, but I think I'm, I, I am on Casting's point of view.
The way they craft the dialogue in that scene, no, man, it's so
bloody obviously he's got to walk in that door.
What are we going to do?
We need one more person.
Oh, who's going to help us?
And then they all sort of wait a second, you know?
I think too, that, that, you know, the acceptability, the question
about whether it's acceptable to participate in fix as a black
person is one that only a black person can answer.
And so having the 2 points of view, having both Cassidy and, and
um, And Ben talk, you know, like just talk about that and present
the different points of view is exactly right.
So this is the us explaining.
So is the exposition of what they're supposed to be doing if it
all goes absolutely right.
And I'm sorry, watch the camera work.
It is all over the place.
It's over those tables, up in the ceiling, close ups, zooming
around.
It's it's not quite your discovery camera, but for the time, it is
a lot more imaginative than what we normally get.
Is it supposed to emphasise the complexity of the plan?
The fact that the camera has to follow people around as they move
through space because the whole plan is so carefully.
Like it's kind of supposed to be a bit fluid, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it is not how, sadly.
Not that Team State is normally direct.
No.
And that is a bit of a problem, isn't it?
When you can highlight really creative direction in a comedy
episode that isn't really there in the, you know, what are the
biggies.
Yeah.
We watched in the Power Moonlight, which was a great episode, but
they did The Direction was quite static.
Yeah, and I thought made some odd choices as well.
I thought there were some problems.
That was her 90s trek moment then.
She leaned over and he looked right up her skirt.
Right down, yeah.
Well, it's also very 1962 moment, I think.
Oh, Cassidy is the victim.
Oh, it's just so noveless.
This thing here.
Yeah, she's trying to cry.
But the great thing is that she doesn't kind of blow it.
She doesn't kind of, because when she actually does that thing.
When we see her do it. it's even better And in fact, there's
something super presentational because this is selling us with
what's going to happen.
We aren't hearing any of the dialogue.
And so her doing that comedy burst into tears.
And it would be so perfect.
In a regular episode of Star Trek.
It would be inconceivably bad to have a scene like that.
But in a comedy scene like this, it is amazingly good.
I just love the way in the real world where she's like supposedly
bawling her eyes out the 2nd she realises they're out.
She sort of wipes her eyes and goes, oh, see you.
She's off.
He looks up and she's gone, I think.
I know.
So is the idea here that Odo is actually the briefcase.
Yeah.
Oh okay.
So they all get a job, don't they?
So hang on.
Nog is the fake security guard who's going to open The save.
Ojo is the one who's going to carry the money away.
Cisco's a high roller that's distracting a lot.
So he's distracting everyone.
Kira's the sexy, sultry bird there.
Frankie eyes.
Mm-hmm.
What's Bashir doing?
Oh, he's got the...
It's the one who puts the ipecac in the in the martini. and then
you've got Ezri delivering it. getting rid of this 2nd guy in the
count room.
And so it's all...
Sorry.
This montage.
I freaking love this montage.
This is everything I adore about DS9 and this cast of characters.
Look at that.
Rashir and O'Brien together concocting some scheme.
No practising his move, really.
Practising on the safe.
And then it's just a door.
Look, it's a door in the bar.
It's just a door frame that's in the barn.
It's wonderful.
Oh, it's in the wardrobe.
And then he opens the door and then entries there inside.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As if she was in the in the safe.
But this next bit now, I a door where Odo helps Kira put her dress
on.
Oh, look at her hair.
Look how sexy she is and that smile.
He kisses her on the shoulder.
And then Cassidy comes up to Cisco and sorts out his... is weirdly
practising throwing dice as if you can be good or bad at that
don't quite know what's happening.
Oh, okay.
You see, a picture of me, of cool. here we go.
He's Avery Brooks.
There they go, walking down the promenade.
And this bit of music.
Just terrific.
God, I couldn't love them more.
Look at the look on Cassidy's face.
Quark, kind of like they're spending money in that other bar.
Do you know what?
They walk in slow motion then.
The look on Cassidy's face was pure fucking sass.
No, you mess with me, all right?
She's so good.
Oh, there's more.
Yep.
Yeah, he just nods.
Yep.
Oh here we go.
Okay, so the heist is on.
Yeah.
And so it initially goes wrong in just one small way, and they
recover from it, and you kind of, that's, like, I just think
that's terribly good because it goes spectacularly wrong in a
couple of ways too, or 3 things happen that they don't expect.
But the 1st one is gray.
We've already been privy to the, obviously, the jack in the box
and we know that Felix will throw in a few curveballs.
So then later on when he throws in Zemo, whoa, that's just him
being a bit a little bit naughty, isn't it, at that point?
But it's also doing what a heist has to do.
Like, there's no fun in us hearing the plan explain, and then they
go and do the plan and it just works.
That's boring.
What the point is, the reason we've seen it go right is so that we
can more easily tell when it's going wrong later.
There are so many camera salves here.
I just watching the camera go from character to character, fading
in and out, moving around.
It's just not how Star Trek is shot in the 90s.
No.
It's lovely.
There's a wonderful shot where the camera zooms right over the
crabs table in a bit, which is lovely.
Do you know, Paramount was so happy with how handsome this episode
looks that it was originally supposed to, I believe, last, but
they held it back because they wanted it to be in the February
sweet states because they thought this was the zinger in the
middle of the season.
They were like, this is the one we really want to showcase.
Hey, Nathan, we could we could play foot season for the table.
Yeah, yeah.
Kira's just so gorgeous.
There's something about that, that guard there, that buttoned up
guard that Cassidy flirts with.
He's very handsome, isn't he?
It's hot.
Yeah.
So, but this is so one of the count guys is going to call his mom
which means they've got 8 minutes, right?
because that's how long it takes.
Then the 1st thing happens here where the guy barrels into Ezri
spilling a drink.
And she looks really, she's absolutely selling.
What the fuck do we do now?
Which is really...
Like, you can't just get 2 more drinks?
You know?
No.
Well, but it's so the timing is super tight.
That was what, you know, like it's absolutely choreographed.
Each step depends on the previous one.
She improvises brilliantly, doesn't she?
She has to improvise too.
Yeah.
So they all bring something.
We're okay for now.
Julian solved that one.
Ezri goes in, and then suddenly, instead of the guy who always has
a martini every night.
She's concentrating on the martini.
She looks up and it's Gowron.
You're not Howard, and Goward is so...
His accent as well.
He goes, he's out with the flu.
You know, he's full on gangster dog.
He's doing absolute comedy gangster accent.
It's so It's really funny.
It's really good.
Like this.
The way so the way that she gets him to drink it, is she's on, I
really beeped you, mind if I drink it?
And then he says, oh, that's the saddest story overhoid.
He drinks it.
All right, so that problem solved.
So, Julie, that lovely shot over the table.
I've never got to stop going on about the music and the camera
work because it's a one time I can bloody do it. much fun.
Yeah that's right.
Okay, so now that's everything's going to plan now.
Okay.
So we've got rid of Howard.
We've got not Howard.
We've got rid of Gowron and the other guy.
Cassidy's turn.
That man, that man over there.
It's not a stack of my chips.
You know what?
The thing is, though, she's not obnoxious, isn't she?
This character.
That's what I love about it.
She's really good.
Because you remember when do you remember when she was at the
table and she's going 24?
You're busted?
you know?
Oh right.
So now the man's Garon's.
Yep, now so everything's going to plan.
He's getting sick.
Nogs going in to crack the safe.
And Odo's already there as the trade that Ezri brought in.
Jesus Christ.
Doesn't he slide off the table, isn't it?
that right?
Yeah, I hadn't realised, but maybe you're right.
Maybe he used to try.
Yeah, now we don't see it this time.
And so this is the 2nd thing that goes wrong is that Nog hasn't
practised on the right safe.
It's an auto relock. tumbler.
So that presumably means, like, we don't need to know what that
is.
Who cares?
But what I'm thinking is, it must mean that if he gets halfway
through and then gets it wrong, he has to go back to the beginning
or something.
Did you know, did you know with this episode, it was supposed to
be a bit of a metaphor as well of the arc in season 6 when the
Dominion took over the station, the mob taken over the bar, and
then them all happened to work together to try and get them gone?
And get rid of it.
Yeah.
So if you'd done this in series 6, they would have played it like
that, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, Kira, honestly, you flirt like mad.
But you know what?
Nan a visitor says.
So she's quoted as saying, you might think this is out of
character for Kira, but actually during the occupation, She would
have had to have flirted her way with a lot of Cardassian men in
order to gain access to areas and do terrorist acts and things
like that.
So, you know, even in a bit of fluff, she's there giving it a
character rationally.
Yeah.
They're good actors.
That's why.
But I mean, she's beautiful.
That song is at his way where she's singing fever. fever.
Yeah.
I've said it before, but I think I was so hot.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
She's smoking.
I was trying to play the piano, but he can't keep his eyes off
her.
Well, no. not a stupid man.
Yeah.
And the thing is, like, we, honestly, there's so much going on and
we keep cutting back to Nog yanking up that safe.
Yeah.
Yeah, but like I find that properly tense.
I think because they've emphasised that they have 8 minutes and no
more and nothing's happening.
They're all sitting there waiting for the next thing to happen and
nothing, nothing is happening and here's...
There genuinely is wall-to-wall music throughout this entire
heist.
Like, it doesn't stop.
Oh yeah, he's great, isn't he?
is so good.
Now, he has been in Star Trek before.
He's in, yeah, he's in a series 3 episode of Star Trek, the Next
Generation, called the Vengeance Factor.
Oh, wow.
And he's got like alien face space makeup on.
But he's a very distinguished, very, very prolific character act.
He has some pedigree doing movies of this ilk as well, which is
why they pulled him in and they knew he could do it.
Oh, he's fabulous.
I love him when he goes, when were you in Miami?
It's really funny, you see?
Because he's so fucking old.
I like the bimbories river, huh?
You ain't no no.
That's so great. funny.
And you know what?
Even the music here reminds me of TOS is kind of going, dunno.
It's a very over the top.
But you know what?
We want it a bit over the top.
Well, they're doing a comedy sting to go into the ad break to make
fun of the fact of how they normally go into the ad break with
just a really shitty stick.
Oh, see, now their time's up.
Their time's up because the other guy, his phone call's finished
and now he's going back, Julian spots it.
How do we stop him?
He says that Frankie eyes is outside.
He wants to chat with you. and he's like, okay, yeah.
I've not done anything wrong.
And he goes, then you've got nothing to worry about.
It's the one time sitting out the deal pulls off an accent quite
well.
Oh, does he try doing an accent?
I forgot.
You've got nothing to worry about.
You know, he's like...
I love Sidix, normal.
Sid's normal accent.
I like Cisco's diversionary tactic of just throwing all the money
up in the air.
Yeah, that's an absolute low rent.
So that's the 2nd thing that turns up that goes wrong and it's
really bad because it means that they have to do this while Zemo's
here.
And Vic is absolutely. nailing it.
So Vic gets to be clever now.
Yeah, they all play their part by flirting with Zemo's
girlfriend.
He's clearly fucked Semo's girlfriend, apparently.
She does not seem to recall it, though, you know.
Frankie.
The money, Frankie.
Your grandpa?
You've done it now.
Bury him.
Oh, I love it.
It's such a funny role.
He's so great.
Now, Cisco's just throwing money.
He can't think of anything else to do. create a diversion, all
right?
I just throw a bunch of money.
And there's a ton of shrewd and obvious, but...
They must have been throwing fucking money up all afternoon
because there's a ton of shots there of people scrabbling about on
the floor picking up notes.
He looks super anxious too.
Like he's throwing money, but he's absolutely, there's not a smile
on his face. really anxious about it working.
This goes on for much longer than you expect.
Like, I think we cut back to Nog there expecting him.
You know, why are we saying?
Where's your suspense, though, isn't it?
It's like, 0 my god, they're not going to make it, you know.
Yeah.
Funny way to run a casino.
He's so great.
Every notice that it's gone horribly wrong.
Yeah, that's right.
What the hell are we doing now?
I think Nog's got a fucking nerve here, Gary.
Yeah, piece of cake.
You took yourself.
It was supposed to take you 30 seconds.
We took you 7 minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
More than 8 minutes, I think.
I think we only just, well, we had to distract the other count guy
from going back.
What's the funniest thing of all?
Oh, no, it's not funnier than Casta Yates and her crying, which is
coming up right now.
That's hilariously funny.
It's when they open the safe up, the huge TOS dramatic close-ups
on everyone's face when they realise they're in the sewer, you
know?
Yeah, they're going to be busted.
The safe has no back wall, but they could have just gone in and
got the money out of the back of the safe.
It's probably on the floor.
It's so great.
I just think that's really funny.
Oh, here she goes.
Oh, new to that money to buy gift for my mama.
I love it so much.
So funny.
All right.
And so now she's seen that everything's going okay. and she just
wanders off.
Like, doesn't say anything.
We get a comedy look to camera by the guard.
By the handstream security and the dick dastardly cartoon.
Now Kira's like, go on.
Show him the count room.
Oh, yeah, because she knows that it's gone okay.
She's seen.
Yeah, yeah.
It is, it's back.
They've won, haven't they?
They've won now.
Oh, no, she looks good.
As they walk out of the bar in slow motion and they all turn round
at the bar looking smug as hell.
It's so cool.
Where's my money, Nathan?
He's so great.
And then we cut to the sexy ladies miming shooting someone with a
gun.
Which looks like what's going to happen to Frankie now?
is allowed the casino to be robbed.
Oh, I just love it when they all turn around here.
Oh, yeah, the walk of shame as Zemo is as Zemo escorts Frankie
Eyes out of the bar.
The way, honestly, no one looks cooler than Cisco.
Look at how he turns around.
Oh, yeah.
You're out of it, boy.
It's kind of like he knows.
It's like Frankie knows.
He's been defeated by all of these people.
Oh, and then back to Vic Fontaines again.
Yeah, which happens right behind you now on the zinc call here.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It does make Vic Fontaine seem rather tame, though, doesn't it?
Yeah, there's no editude anymore, is there?
No.
And it's a tiny room now.
Look, it seems to be a much tinier room.
And this...
Oh my god.
Has any episode ever ended better than this?
I am a massive fan of musicals and like music like this in Star
Trek.
And so we get 2 numbers here.
And I think that there's a musical in series 2 of Picard, where Dr
Girati sings this sexy song at a party and people were going, how
does that happen?
That makes no sense and she kind of, I was just kind of going, who
gives a shit?
It's so great.
You know, absolutely that one of the best things in Picard. 7 in
the killing game?
No, no, you are my son, someone.
And in Tinker Tenor, Dr. Spy.
He sings that opera.
It's like, um, Tuvok, you understand, you are a Vokan man.
You have just gone without 47 years about.
It's so funny Now, why can't they sing?
Like it's delightful.
Avery Brooks's voice.
Oh, yeah, and you've got you've got Jimmy Darren, who we've heard
singing in a bunch of episodes and then Avery starts singing and
he's great.
When he hits the rock, so good.
Where's till I draw you down.
Oh, he's so good.
He's just got that fantastic tenor voice.
It's so terrific.
The funniest bit is when he goes, what is that?
Oh, nothing I can hear.
There's a great quote on memory alpha where Avery Brooks says, you
know, and they were like, can you sing?
And he stared at them askance.
Like, can I sing?
And, you know, and he's like, you know, tell him, tell him to come
around.
We'll practice it on the piano.
And they're like, what key do you want to do it?
And he went, well, what key do you want to do it in?
I can sing in all of them.
He's, I think his musical talents actually outstripped his acting
talents.
So he'd done a lot of this before Star Trek.
It's so good.
And look, we just panning slowly across these people that we
love.
And none a visitor, I have to think that that's her reaction
rather than Kira's reaction.
It's so beautiful.
I almost tear up.
She loves it.
Look at caffidine.
You're an acid. boyfriend.
Well, excuse me, we know, you know, because in that interview, she
said, this sexy, amazing boyfriend, Captain Sisco.
And my real life husband was really jealous every time I slog him
because I meant it every time.
Oh, they're all laughing.
Come on.
I know.
And the previous, like, let's go out to the hollow suite.
No, take me out to the hollow suite, is that awful, you know, crap
joke at the end where they're all laughing at something that's not
at all funny and it's super miserable.
But this is so much fun. so much better.
Cisco, this loose and enjoying himself.
Like, it's very rare.
And I think that image of a white man and a black man singing and
having fun with their arms around each other.
I cannot imagine a more perfect way to end a Star Trek episode.
They're also both sort of wonderfully middle-aged and so it does
have that sort of late rat pack sort of vibe.
You know, there's a, yeah, it's just terrific.
So, so great.
I can't imagine anyone watching that and not coming away with a
smile on their face.
But I actually think that that episode is better.
It's certainly more entertaining than some of the really, like, I
love to be made to feel stuff by Star Trek, and there are some
deep so sign episodes that I think are very, you know, everyone
says the visitor, and that was in our top 10, because of course it
was.
It's really great.
Okay, I can name that.
That's right. past tense.
Yeah.
But something doesn't have to be heavy to be good.
You know, it's not good because it deals with serious things.
It's good because it's sort of entertaining and fun and well
made.
And that's what this is.
This made me feel a lot of things.
It made me feel extremely happy and jolly and I was having a bad
day when I watched it the 1st time and I was having a great day
when I finished.
Yeah, no, I think it's just terrific.
Do you think, like, comedy episodes in general then, that that is
just a good idea.
In Sonia, that's something that they should pursue more of, or
should it be the occasional, like, one off or a couple of times a
year?
I think that they shouldn't forget that it's a TV show and so it
and they don't, but we do.
You know, people watching Star Trek.
Memory Alpha people, watching Star Trek think that it's, you know
real events in the future happening to imaginary people.
And that's not what it is.
Um, and I think that they have done comedy episodes in New Trek
absolutely.
So, you know, late in series one of Strange New Worlds, there's an
episode called the Elysian Kingdom, which in which everyone is
sort of taken over by characters in a fantasy story, written by
Benny Russell.
And it has, it has fantastic scenes. is so funny in it.
Like, the whole thing is really quite funny and silly and, you
know, seemingly fluffy and inconsequential.
And then it absolutely goes for a gut punch at the end and he ends
up being incredibly moving.
Like it does a really good job.
But it does the comedy very well.
Yeah, so so I think Star Trek should do all of those things, it is
super flexible, you know, it can do whatever it wants, and it
should try to be entertaining in as many ways as possible, because
Star Trek is a little bit like Doctor Who in some senses where you
shouldn't know what you're going to get when you tune in every
week.
And I think I'm going to be bold now and you know how much I love
Deep Space 9.
But I think on the whole, in 90s trek, the comedy episodes of Deep
Space 9 far outstrip what the other shows are doing.
And I think it's primarily because of the quality of the actors
and how, like, you know, Kira and our membership, she's the bond
girl for and through.
She's amazingly good.
You know, they all commit to the comedy.
So episodes like the Nagus, like Little Green Men, the magnificent
Verengi.
Take me out to the holiday suite in the cards, you know, they are
just absolute gems.
Well, I think the other thing is too, that, you know, we've talked
about how Star Trek shows tend to have people who are defined by
their jobs and what they're good at doing. because it's primarily
about solving space problems.
So your characters contribute to the solution in various ways.
I think here the characters are much more like sitcom characters
because they have an outlook, a well-defined outlook that we're
aware of.
And they tend to react in ways that we can predict.
We kind of know how Quark will react to something or how Odo will
react to something.
They have very well-defined points of view.
And having those well-defined points, if you means you can play
off that and play with it and make them do different things.
But they're like sitcom characters.
And so they slot very easily into a comedy premise.
It's that time of the episode, and we are going to pick our next
Star Trek episode to talk about.
I'm here on Untitled Star Trek project.com slash Randomiser, and I
am going to choose an episode from 90s trek.
All of 90s track.
So next gen, Deep Say 9 Voyager or Enterprise.
Oh, I'll be down for any of them, mate.
Yeah, me too.
I think it'd be fun to do something that we know well.
I actually think by default of the fact that that was sheer heaven
to watch that whatever you choose is going to be slightly more
disappointing than this.
Yeah.
But you never know.
You never know.
We even had a good voyager the other week.
Yeah, we did too.
Absolutely we did.
All right, here goes, pressing the button.
Ooh.
This is actually a good one.
Okay.
That's a big promise.
Yeah, so this is Star Trek, the Next Generation, season four
episode 12, the Wounded, was a very good episode.
It is good.
So it's the 1st really big O'Brien episode.
It comes just after date's day, I think. think it's the 1st time
we see the Cardassians as well.
Yeah, with Mark Alamo as some gull random guy this week with a
sort of funny thing.
The makeup is really off though, compared to what happens later.
Yeah, and the costume is not what we end up with.
I think they've got sort of Beaumarish things going around their
heads.
There's a thing on their face, like some sort of a strange visor
thing on their face.
What do you think?
We will have to rate them on the bow Moscow, then.
You are aware of this.
We will, yeah.
But this makes for a very boring kind of end of the episode
choosing another episode thing, but I mean, those people who
listen to Untitled Star Trek Project and complain that it's not
random because we just keep picking until...
Yeah, someone said that to me this week, you know.
Still not cheating.
What do reckon?
Well, I think you should press it again and we should choose
between the 2 about that.
No, we're not allowed to do that.
This is it.
It's gone if I press it again, it's gone.
Say it again, go on.
No, I'm going to say the wounded, right?
We definitely do it.
And then I'm going to press it again and see what would have
happened if I'd agreed.
It'll be like devil's Jew or Fairhaven.
Or something like that.
I love Devil's Jew.
That might be that.
Let's have a look then.
It's going to be rocks and shoals.
That's season 6, episode two. phenomenally good.
But we can't have 2 phenomenally good DSIs in a row.
No, so, okay, so let's do that.
We'll do the wounded.
And this is just, this is beyond the point where TNG's knocked out
a whole year's worth of decent material.
And halfway through the next year.
They've done best of both worlds, family, all this fantastic
stuff.
They're kind of riding high mid-season four.
Yeah, no, season 4, they've already done best of both worlds.
So they're having absolutely...
Yeah, they're in that, they're in the ascension, you know?
Yeah, three, four, and five, I think, are really incredibly strong
in 60s as well.
Like this is absolutely from the golden era of Star Trek, the Next
Generation.
However, we have also revisited episodes where I have said
absolutely amazing, like power play.
Maybe it's terrible.
Oh yeah.
I think it's pretty good.
There is some singing.
We will get calm column singing.
Yeah, just enjoyable, is there?
I'm telling you.
No.
That's true.
I think, you know, we haven't done like a good, a really sort of
gritty episode for a while.
And this is some good serious drama, I think.
Well, Star Trek, the next generation.
Yeah, it's a great generation scale. it's serious drama You are
rude.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project
com where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube
channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 13th of July 2022 and released on
the 15th of July.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, the
Wounded.
I think that's a good end, yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
We talked for quite a long time about at the beginning.
That was so much fun.
Holy shit.
That's a good episode.
Yeah, I think this is going to be a good USDV episode as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, last week we were just sort of fucking bitching about how
shit the show was.
I love listening back to that one.
Oh my god.
It was enough.
Because we really attacked it with some thought, you know, it
wasn't just a bitch fesse.
It was like, this is why this is truly awful.
It was your turn.
Yeah, oh, oh, shit, it is too.
Yeah.
I'm going to need some kind of device to show the thing on.
Wait a sec.
Safari up.