WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:41:39

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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I think it's become clear that we have a bit of a fractious relationship with Star Trek enterprise.

3
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Do you think that's fair?

4
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Uh, yes, I think half of Star Trek Enterprise is the worst Star Trek we're ever going to watch and the other half is possible.

5
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And I think you and I have different halves there.

6
00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:51.420
I mean, to be fair, I haven't watched it all.

7
00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:55.619
Don't you be telling me you think the 1st 2 seasons of Enterprise are possible?

8
00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:07.739
Well, no, I don't think they're passable, but I have been hate watching series 3 of Enterprise while I've been, I don't know, redesigning the flight through entirety website and stuff.

9
00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:11.760
And it is politically miserable.

10
00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:16.859
Although I think it does do some interesting storytelling thing.

11
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So mostly I don't like it, but there are bits of it that I can admire.

12
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And I am actually starting to warm to the just the thing, like the sets and the ship and the regulars, particularly um, to poll, surprisingly, trip, of course, and the doctor, who is absolutely magnificent.

13
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Well, what's that thing?

14
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What's that thing when you're stuck in a prison cell for so long?

15
00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.560
and then you could get adjusted syndrome.

16
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Yeah, you know, these dreary characters are actually, you're starting to see the light with them because you've spent a bit too much time with them.

17
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Well, I mean, it's still Star Trek, you know, and I love Star Trek.

18
00:01:56.819 --> 00:02:07.739
And even this episode that we're going to watch today, which I think is pretty miserable, has some things going for it, one or 2 things that I think are properly Star Trekier than I quite enjoy.

19
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I had to watch this 3 times to see things of worth in it.

20
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After my 1st watch.

21
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Well, no, my 1st watch was when I wrote the review for my blog. where I really went to town at how appallingly, I think, this whole episode is handled.

22
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Then I watched it again for this.

23
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Then I watched it again, thinking, all right, I'll give it another go and I hated it even more.

24
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And this time I watched it and I basically saw a single character and everything that character did in this episode was worth watching, but everything else was pretty terrible.

25
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I want to disagree with you.

26
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I think season 3 of Enterprise is the best season they did.

27
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I think it's very ambitious in how it's structured and for them to do a season-long arc. which is something they've really pushed it away from.

28
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Even DS9 didn't attend that.

29
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And they wanted to do it, but the suits were like, no, they knew that their cars were marked.

30
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So they were like, right, we're going to go out.

31
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One last stab at doing something pretty amazing.

32
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.319
And I think the hit rate of episodes.

33
00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:20.939
Like my favourites are probably your least favourites because I love Star Trek when it's shitting all over the Roddenberry ideals and basically saying, well, sometimes we've got to act like complete bricks to get what we want and I quite like a bit of that.

34
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Well, you objected that with some of the DS9s we've watched, you've rejected that as well, didn't you, in like in the Pound Moonlight, episodes like that, where you were a bit uneasy with...

35
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I think it's a bit cheap.

36
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And I think it's a bit easy.

37
00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:40.620
And I think that remember this is drama they can do what they want.

38
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And so having our regulars behave poorly and not suffer any consequences for it is a choice that they're making.

39
00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:54.419
And I just think that it stops being what Star Trek is for at that point.

40
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And in, in series 3, we have America kind of going mad after 9-11 and doing all sorts of really quite spectacularly bad things, and then you have enterprise along for the ride, kind of cheering them on.

41
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And I think that we'd be better off without a show that did that.

42
00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:23.339
And I think that that's the root of what Billingsley said in that interview.

43
00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:25.139
What was that from?

44
00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:35.100
Ah, it's Trek geeks, I think. is a really good interview because he's not afraid to just say what he thinks, is he?

45
00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:36.779
Yeah, he's out of the show now.

46
00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:43.500
In fact, he was asked to come back in Kurtzman Trek. and he said, I'd rather not, thank you. which I think is incredible.

47
00:04:43.740 --> 00:04:47.279
He did come back for an episode of The Orful, didn't he?

48
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Did he?

49
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I think he might have.

50
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But he essentially says, like, he's very proud of what they did, but essentially some of the creative decisions in the latter half enterprise he disagreed with, and he felt as if it was turning their back on what Trek should be about.

51
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Yeah, I mean, Trek is about sort of hopeful, positive future.

52
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You've got Battlestar Galactica where you get people doing real politic because they're in desperate situations.

53
00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:22.019
And that's fun to watch, but I don't think that series 3 is that much fun to watch.

54
00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:23.699
It is a little bit of a grind.

55
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It is.

56
00:05:24.779 --> 00:05:25.680
It's very, very serious.

57
00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:27.959
I think DS9 gets the light and dark.

58
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It kind of does the same thing, but it's a lot more entertaining to watch and the characters are just more fun and better to find.

59
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You say there's no consequences.

60
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I question that.

61
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I think there's there's often like personal consequences for the decisions they make and we've seen them agonising and certainly like in DS9 there were consequences to everything Cisco did down the line.

62
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Well, but there's no like, I don't know, what bureaucratic, professional consequences, because very very often the federation just goes, well, go on then, do it, you know, like, yeah, we need a way out of this situation.

63
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Do your best.

64
00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:02.819
Yeah.

65
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Well, I certainly think that, you know, people objected to series one of discovery, but I think series 3 of Enterprise is actually properly, politically, really poor in a way that series one of discovery isn't, like I think, a reasonable reading of series one of discovery.

66
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It's very, very pro Star Trek ideals.

67
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And it puts them in a situation where they're pushed, but they hold.

68
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But you know what happens then when you lean in the other direction and you are constantly like affirming those Roddenberry ideals, is you end up with that subplot in Butter Connect, where you're having a whole ton of waffle and you just know where it's going to end up.

69
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You're like, wow, they ain't going to go and destroy them.

70
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They're going to make 1st contact.

71
00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.720
And I know they did something interesting with that and I know there was carrot stuff going on.

72
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But ultimately, the subplot is very predictable.

73
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We know where we're going.

74
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Sure, sure.

75
00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:11.579
But I think once we've decided that we're all bad asses and we're just going to sort of flout the rules and stuff, that that's also just a little bit tedious and just a tiny bit adolescent.

76
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I prefer, sorry, we're way off base there.

77
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But I prefer it.

78
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Who cares?

79
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You know, we do this all the time.

80
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I prefer it when the Roddenberry ideals are attacked, not via the regulars, but in something like Valiant in DS9, where they have that group of cadets that are very much like, we're starving, we can do anything, and then they think they can take on that dominion ship, and then they all are murdered at the end of the episode.

81
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And it's, it's really confronting and it's like, wow, this is what happens when you tell a bunch of kids that are the best of the best.

82
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Yeah.

83
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Yeah, and that was, that's a lot more.

84
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:49.259
But at this point in Enterprise, in season two, they're not even thinking on this level.

85
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They're not doing anything that interesting.

86
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They're not trying to be ambitious.

87
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They're knocking out one Star Trek episode of the week after another.

88
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And the hit rate is terrible.

89
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I said to you before this call. 2 episodes ago.

90
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We have precious cargo, which is considered one of the worst episodes of Star Trek, not even Enterprise.

91
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.860
And in 2 episodes of time, we've got future tents, which you watched recently, which is a terrible bore.

92
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.920
Like there's just, there's no drive, there's no energy.

93
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I don't think there's any love for what they're making. at the moment.

94
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It's just they're kind of making competent television.

95
00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:24.660
Sort of.

96
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Kind of.

97
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But, you know, like I like Star Trek when it is just the thing of the week and I think that's something that Strange New Worlds does incredibly well and that Star Trek the Next Generation. sometimes does well.

98
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And most of the time.

99
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They can do those episodes of the week with passion and with energy.

100
00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:50.639
And, you know, and, you know, I think Strange New Wells probably does that every week, you know.

101
00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:51.480
Oh, yeah.

102
00:08:51.539 --> 00:08:55.500
There's, yeah, I'm sure they're loving the fact that they're making Star Trek.

103
00:08:55.559 --> 00:09:00.480
This episode we're talking about today is Stigma, which we haven't even mentioned yet.

104
00:09:00.539 --> 00:09:02.879
They didn't even want to make this episode.

105
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They were contacted by a group and said, would you please raise awareness for, was it HIV or sexually transmitted diseases?

106
00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:15.779
That's what the sort of the parallel is in this episode.

107
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And instead of sort of saying, right, we're going to grab hold of this, we've been asked to make a statement.

108
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They knock out this yawn fest where there is no kind of emotion, there's no anger in what they're talking about.

109
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There's no.

110
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I just don't understand the point of this at all.

111
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What are they trying to say in this episode?

112
00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:48.419
It is that thing where I think that I think they've taken it back a few 100 years so that we can have a predominantly white and predominantly human crew.

113
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They are not particularly interested in the politics of Star Trek and perhaps made a bit uncomfortable by it.

114
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And that's why in series 3.

115
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They kind of go, oh, well, bugger it, we're dropping it and we're just going to go full on kind of crazy right wing militaristic nonsense.

116
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And here they're being asked to do an issue episode, but they're so kind of tentative about it.

117
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And the weird thing is that the B plot is about them being tentative about it.

118
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The B plot fights against the A plot the entire time.

119
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And it's almost like they've got the B plot.

120
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They've got the most white bread kind of character on the show, Tripp, who is sort of tremendously well acted and really fun to watch.

121
00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:47.519
Um, being confused that people are polygamous, even though it's like 2152 or something.

122
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It's like, it's so pathetic.

123
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But at the time, that was quite a brave thing to put out.

124
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I like the fact that they're, I do like the fact that they're just sort of bold faced about it and they just go for it, you know?

125
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I really love the big where flocks and his missus go, oh, humans, you know, and laugh about him at the end.

126
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Which is really, really fun.

127
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I thought there was far more bravery in that B plot than there was in the A plot, which is...

128
00:11:13.740 --> 00:11:19.799
It's so weird because I just felt as if there were no emotional consequences for anybody at all and nobody was feeling anything.

129
00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:24.360
The consequences in this episode are all bureaucratic. all red tape.

130
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Will to poll have to leave enterprise.

131
00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:28.500
Yeah, yeah.

132
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And we know that she won't.

133
00:11:30.059 --> 00:11:31.679
So it doesn't really matter.

134
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The other thing too is that when HIV was a big crisis, like when it 1st became a thing, there was, there were some people who chose to talk about people who'd innocently court it.

135
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So if you caught it through um a blood transfusion or something like that, you'd caught it innocently, but if you caught it off a sexual partner, then you you were somehow to blame, right?

136
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And this episode just takes that frame on board and it attacks it both to Paul and Archer reject that frame in what I think is the best thing about the episode.

137
00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:21.179
But that frame is there.

138
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Well, is it a bit where Archer says, I'm not even going to go there.

139
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I don't want to ask her how she got it.

140
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Yeah, I like that.

141
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And Paul refuses to say.

142
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Even once it's clear, she refuses to say.

143
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But once we make sure we establish that she's an innocent victim of this condition, we can all just get on with our lives.

144
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And the Vulcan who caught it mind melding or whatever, he gets punished.

145
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And even though we kind of, we say stuff about how that's terrible.

146
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That's still how it ends up.

147
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And I still think that that reinforces that way of framing the issue rather than properly deconstructing it.

148
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That way of dealing with the issue ends up being the predominant way of the episode ends up thinking about it.

149
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And so I think it fails, and I think it fails pretty dismally.

150
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Channelling this through the Vulcans, who are, you know, famously completely unemotional, just guts this of any kind of emotional work.

151
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Like, and I kept saying to you, think about far beyond the stars.

152
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Think about how that grabbed hold of racism and showed a man who was being victimised.

153
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And at the end, he has a complete nervous breakdown and he's on the floor and he's crying and I think it's the injustice of the situation and sort of the rawness in Avery Brooks's performance that makes that so powerful.

154
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I defy anyone to watch that and not be in tears.

155
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I think well out one's watching this.

156
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:57.419
No, no, there's nothing here.

157
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:04.919
And the thing is that too, you have you have a black man who has personally experienced racism in his lifetime.

158
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And I can't remember who's writing far beyond the stars, but they are writing something that Avery Brooks has to be willing to do.

159
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Well, he directs them.

160
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Avery Brooks directs Fargo style.

161
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So he has he's got input into it artistically.

162
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You know, we know that that Birmingham, Braga and whoever's writing this doesn't really give a shit about this.

163
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And there's a kind of complete absence of representation of any of the people for whom this issue is important.

164
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.779
And that's what you would never do in modern Star Trek.

165
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You know, modern Star Trek doesn't bullshit around with allegories about gay people.

166
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It just has fucking gay people in it.

167
00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:55.440
And I think that this is a pretty miserable kind of 2nd best sort of thing.

168
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I will say again, this was 20 years ago, and the landscape of TV 20 years goes, what's different?

169
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And I think, you know, you're able to watch TV 20 years.

170
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Of course there were, but it wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

171
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It wasn't as accepted as it is today.

172
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Um, just going very quickly back to far the other side.

173
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The way that plays with you emotionally, the episode is written, so Benny Russell has these amazing highs, right, like his story is going to be published.

174
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He's going to marry Casta Yates and then these massive crashes where he gets beaten up in the street by the police officer and you're kind of, you're like literally taking on this insane emotional ride.

175
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By the end, you're fucking exhausted.

176
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But the point has been made, you know, that it's a terrible fucking thing to endure.

177
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This whole episode is a flat, the monotone that everyone talks in.

178
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And I'm just, where's the passion in this show, in this particular episode, which is about something important?

179
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Ah, just irritated me how dull this was.

180
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So I, I find the Vulcan thing inexplicable as well.

181
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And I don't know what it is.

182
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It's like... writing about the people who did well in science class, you know, they hated them.

183
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And it's so dumb.

184
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And it just makes me so happy that that's not how the Vulcans are characterised in Kurtzman Trek at all.

185
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There's a lot of love for the Vulcans and a lot of understanding of them.

186
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:32.340
And think about a character like Tarina from last week.

187
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Oh my god, like, in that one scene?

188
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She had more passion in her than this entire episode.

189
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.320
Yeah, and she's a lovely character.

190
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She's fantastic.

191
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:51.059
Like at the end of this episode, the equivalent of the end of our Beyonce, is where that guy stands up and goes, well, I'm one of the subset of this species. even that wording is so dreary.

192
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I'm one of the subset of this species.

193
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He says it as if he's putting his hand up going, well, can I go to the loo, please?

194
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It's just nothing.

195
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Well, actually, we should watch this thing because I'm just going to sit here getting angry.

196
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I just think I just think they should have approached this with some anger, you know?

197
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Yeah.

198
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And they don't.

199
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.140
They just don't appreciate with any emotion at all.

200
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And so it just has no impact.

201
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:16.079
Yeah, they don't care.

202
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So what was the point?

203
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Well, it filled in 40?

204
00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:24.299
2 minutes and 52 seconds of runtime, I guess.

205
00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:25.619
Nice, true.

206
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:26.220
All right.

207
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.740
Probably sold some Toyotas or something.

208
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:30.480
Which I suppose it did make me angry.

209
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:31.740
It did make me feel something.

210
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.019
It just made me feel angry for what it wasn't doing.

211
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.180
Yeah, it mostly made me fell sleepy.

212
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:36.720
All right.

213
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.079
I'm going to count us in.

214
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.299
I'll put you awake every now and again then, all right?

215
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:43.140
All right.

216
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.059
Okay, here goes.

217
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:51.420
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

218
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.200
Off we go.

219
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.460
Fabulous establishing shot of enterprise from below.

220
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.259
Yeah.

221
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.160
Yeah.

222
00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:01.200
I don't know what I think of Enterprise.

223
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:02.640
Okay, this scene. are we doing?

224
00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:05.519
So this is setting up the problem.

225
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:09.059
So I don't even remember when Tapol had this mind meld, you know?

226
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.519
I'm assuming it was in an episode in series one.

227
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:12.839
It was a year ago, they said.

228
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:18.599
Yeah, it was, and I looked it up and I can't remember, but it was.

229
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.000
I meant to look at it, but then I couldn't be bothered.

230
00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:22.799
Well, she's poured into that uniform.

231
00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:26.460
She has to stand there like an action figure because she can't actually move her arms, you know?

232
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.299
Yeah, well, so Jerry Ryan had the same problem, I think.

233
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:37.680
Um, This is a very shitty pre-credits thing.

234
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:46.619
It's really short and it's like you could die and it's kind of like, oh, God, really, you've got a disease that we never heard about and that we'll never be mentioned again.

235
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:47.279
Is that right?

236
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:49.019
Will it ever be mentioned again?

237
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.519
She gets trillion B addiction.

238
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.839
It's season three.

239
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:53.880
Yeah, she starts taking the drugs, doesn't she?

240
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:55.740
And feeling the emotions and all of that.

241
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:55.980
Yeah.

242
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.220
Another thing, the thing they did to try and make her interesting.

243
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:02.759
Can I just say very quickly, right, during this type of music?

244
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:10.920
My other half was downstairs and caught the beginning of Enterprise and he's like, oh, I'm going to watch the beginning, just see what it's like.

245
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.700
And then it started and he went, no, is this the title music?

246
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.180
I was like, 0 god, I was reaching for the remote.

247
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.279
I couldn't.

248
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:22.680
I still sing.

249
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:25.920
I still literally sing every time the opening credits are on.

250
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:27.000
You know what's really bad?

251
00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:28.319
I think I got used to it now.

252
00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:31.019
I think, you know, I actually, I pre-empty.

253
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:35.099
I've got I've got the...

254
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:36.539
It's so great.

255
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:41.099
It's absolute dead core middle of the road crap.

256
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.240
And it really kind of suits this episode, this series.

257
00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:49.980
Like, absolutely...

258
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:57.180
You thought there was a bit of a visual interest here, but it just doesn't really tell me anything about Enterprise until the last 5 seconds.

259
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:03.960
It's the culmination of a lot of white men striving to travel places and I don't know.

260
00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:07.859
Like, it's like the history leading up to enterprise.

261
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:13.200
The previous shot is, um, what's his what's his face of ship, Zefron Cochrane's ship taking off.

262
00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:15.779
A nice shot there from underneath the enterprise.

263
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.400
Yeah, look, it's upside down.

264
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.180
The French of a planet.

265
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:18.900
They're travelling.

266
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.079
They've learned how the ship would go round a planet.

267
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:23.700
If we're in the southern hemisphere.

268
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.359
The ship would look upside down if we were looking at it.

269
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:31.680
Here's the character we were talking about earlier, who I think can do no wrong.

270
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:33.000
Dr. Flux.

271
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:34.799
He's so wonderful.

272
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:36.900
Look at the way they sniff at each other ear.

273
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.200
I'm assuming it's something to do with pheromones.

274
00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:48.059
Yes, but I mean, why like Archer and Trip both look puzzled because of their alien ways.

275
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.319
I mean, in space.

276
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:51.359
They see aliens all the time.

277
00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:53.640
Yeah, no, no.

278
00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:56.160
Wow, aliens say, sure they're weird.

279
00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.740
I mean, they look exactly the same as us except us.

280
00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:00.359
They're sniffing each other.

281
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:01.140
It's not like that.

282
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.059
It's just...

283
00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:04.079
My dogs do that.

284
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:06.420
I just all the way through this episode.

285
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:21.660
I love flock's relaxed attitudes. as she's, you know, stroking him and touching his leg and there's a bit where I think we're supposed to think he's going to go crazy where she's got her hand on his shoulder and he walks straight up to him and goes, right, wow, see you later.

286
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:39.299
I think because because Flux is wearing that sort of Nehru collar and the long sort of jacket thing, I think the 2 of them look like, oh, look, that's the CG augmented smile that Dr. Flux did in the 1st episode.

287
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:44.759
So when she smiles, she does the wider smile. hang on.

288
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:47.339
Okay, so now we've talked about this.

289
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.440
They can do so bad.

290
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.980
I think the scale of it looks quite good, the CGI.

291
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.460
But then they put in, they can't do people. people.

292
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.740
So you've got these sort of outdo that now.

293
00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:00.779
No, they're terrible.

294
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:02.579
And there's 2 of our regulars.

295
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.500
Like, 0 no, they're violent.

296
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.680
No, that's the, they got it wrong because it's literally they're wearing...

297
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.240
And surprise uniforms.

298
00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:10.559
Oh, you remember?

299
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.500
I think later on, there's two, they just use the same footage.

300
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.660
And yet when they go through the door, it's the 2 Vulcans.

301
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:16.980
They're suddenly Vulcans.

302
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.599
Yeah, look.

303
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:21.599
I mean, I think there's elements of the design that are good.

304
00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:23.640
I actually like the idea of this conference.

305
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:37.380
I like the fact that so the galaxy is a little bit like Earth in the sense that it's Earth having sort of relationships among the countries and stuff and one country has a big international conference and everyone goes to it.

306
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:51.720
And Earth isn't quite used to that yet because we've never had a warp ship before, but now we're going to this, like, there's something about the premise of enterprise that appeals to me, and I can understand why they like it.

307
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.220
Like, it's just very early days.

308
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.440
It's us doing all this stuff for the 1st time.

309
00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:57.180
I don't think that had to be boring.

310
00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:01.619
I still think the premise is loading of problems, though, which we have discussed before.

311
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.660
These medical conferences, right?

312
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:08.039
I need to make a joke about this all the time, that they're always set on like sex planets and things like that.

313
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:11.519
She would be like, I'm off to rise, I'm off to, you know, another thing.

314
00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:13.200
And then every time we went off to one.

315
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:16.559
One, he was kidnapped and replaced by a Dominion duplicate, another one.

316
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.920
He was stopped from going and kidnapped by section 31.

317
00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:21.660
Like they made one joke after another.

318
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.519
He never made it to one conference in the 7 years.

319
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:28.259
And you can see why because they're pretty boring.

320
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:41.220
Well, so the main old Vulcan guy, isn't he crawler from Star Trek, the next generation episode 1st contact, the conservative guy who doesn't want to have contact with aliens?

321
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:42.359
I'm pretty sure.

322
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:44.279
He's definitely a that guy.

323
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:45.599
He's done Star Trek before.

324
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:51.059
All I know is he's given these sort of angry lines in this and he just delivers them.

325
00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:54.660
Boringly, because he's a falcon, doesn't know how to do it.

326
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.440
Yeah.

327
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.160
I do like the actress playing Flux's wife, you know.

328
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:01.200
Yeah, I do too.

329
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:07.500
There's a couple of lines in a minute where she goes, right, you've got to insert it in there.

330
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:12.539
Okay. now you can pull it out. come closer to me.

331
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.880
Oh my god.

332
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:17.940
Oh, I was taking the neutron on the stream.

333
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.279
I was there with a notepad, right?

334
00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:21.059
Okay, I'll try that one.

335
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.940
Look at Triv Spicy.

336
00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:27.960
Oh, God.

337
00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:30.900
I don't know.

338
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:32.400
The thick ending of this opening.

339
00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:32.880
Here it is.

340
00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:35.099
I don't set the thick end into this opening.

341
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.500
We can pull it out now.

342
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.579
When a woman is being sexually voracious and a man is uncomfortable.

343
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.339
I find it perfectly watchable When it's the other way around, I find you really uncomfortable.

344
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:47.640
Yeah.

345
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:50.460
The...

346
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:55.019
There is something kind of sophomoric again about their attitude to sex.

347
00:24:55.079 --> 00:25:02.220
It is the usual 90s Star Trek thing about being kind of like failing to be a grown-up about sex.

348
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.200
Everyone's a fucking moron about it.

349
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.160
And, you know, like this...

350
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:15.240
He's behaving like somebody of the day where polyamory wasn't really something that was discussed very much.

351
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:19.740
So he's behaving. not behaving like someone from the future, where this should probably be the norm by now.

352
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:21.900
I would have had more respect for this subplot.

353
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.599
If at the end it had gone, oh, right.

354
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:25.259
Yes, do it.

355
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:43.079
I reckon what I, how I wanted it to end was just the same script that we had, but then Tripp and Fisa look at one another across the thing and just wink to indicate, yes, they fucked and then, or maybe she winks and he kind of gets slightly embarrassed.

356
00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:44.519
But that would have been more fun.

357
00:25:44.579 --> 00:26:06.359
I think, you know, even it's, it's such American conservative version of sexual morality, you know, and it's that, that sexual morality, that they're critiquing in the A-plot, but that, that trip kind of exemplifies in the B plot.

358
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:13.200
And, you know, he's got his southern accent and he sort of blonde and sweet and calls everyone mam and stuff.

359
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:15.539
But like he's a grown-up.

360
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:25.019
He shouldn't be thrown by the fact that different people have different sexual ethics, but because that's true on earth as well, right?

361
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:27.000
It's so...

362
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:33.900
We're kind of saying that, you know, the heterosexual, you know, lifestyle, that's it.

363
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.180
That's all that's happening in the future, you know.

364
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:37.859
And that's right.

365
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:50.039
And so to the point where both um, both Archer and Tripp are kind of bamboozled by the idea that someone might have 2 wives, even though that happens on earth.

366
00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:52.559
Like, it's so bizarre.

367
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:59.160
I can't speak for Brannenbraga and Rick Bourbon, because I do not know about their personal circumstances, but I'm almost willing to bet.

368
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:02.400
They are both heterosexual men power in this show.

369
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:04.079
And I think now in Star Trek.

370
00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:08.880
There's a far more diverse pool of lifestyles bringing their input into the show.

371
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:13.619
And that's why we're a lot more comfortable with things being a bit different, you know?

372
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:20.700
Yeah, and just with sex not being like they're so childish about sex.

373
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.140
It's pathetic.

374
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.200
These are grown adults going on.

375
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:26.940
Was there a little sex on the TV at the time, though?

376
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:27.599
Was it?

377
00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:30.180
Well, no, but I mean no one's fucking in this either.

378
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:43.079
I mean, you know, you've got trip reacting to just being a bit close to a lady while he's at work, you know, and not being able to cope with someone hitting on him, even though he's a grown ass man.

379
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:44.759
It's so bizarre.

380
00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:52.019
But there's something as well, I know they're putting it in like a science fiction context, but there's something so sanitised about it being a mind milled as well.

381
00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:53.880
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

382
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:55.859
Yeah, this is limp, isn't it?

383
00:27:55.980 --> 00:28:00.299
It's the limpist HIV analogy you could possibly make.

384
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.279
That's right.

385
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:02.880
That's right.

386
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:06.900
It's, it's so extracted from anything.

387
00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:15.000
She should be absolutely on edge because they've clearly come here for a purpose to expose the fact that she has this panass syndrome.

388
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.180
And yet she just sits there going, oh, you've come here for a reason.

389
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:22.500
Like, oh, there's just, there's no life to it. really annoying.

390
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.140
You know, I don't think she's all that terrible.

391
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:29.099
I don't think she's, you know, Jerry Ryan, but she's okay.

392
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.759
And she certainly does get to do interesting things from time to time.

393
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:37.559
But this flat affect here is just killing this whole episode, I think.

394
00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:38.819
Yeah.

395
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:46.920
She does look a bit furtive, you know, like she, she doesn't like, she's holding things back. very subtle, isn't it?

396
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:49.619
I don't think they should be subtle in an issue show, you know?

397
00:28:49.859 --> 00:28:51.240
Yeah.

398
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.119
Is this the fellow in?

399
00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:56.220
What he's talking to her now. the one that's got it.

400
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:57.900
Yeah, he's the one that combine me.

401
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.380
And again, he should have been younger.

402
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.819
I think he's cast too old.

403
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:07.920
There's he's called the younger one, but I mean, that's compared to Croller here or whatever he's called.

404
00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:12.720
Um, But it would have been nice if he was sort of younger and prettier.

405
00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:14.099
If he was more visibly gay.

406
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.559
Like if there was just anything gay about this at all.

407
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.579
They were never going to go there, though, were they?

408
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.079
They were just never going to do it.

409
00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:32.400
I can't, you know, I cannot recall throughout the entirety of Enterprise, if there was a single gay character or...

410
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.440
There isn't one in 90s track at all.

411
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.180
No, I don't agree with that.

412
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.440
I think they initially Garak was written as being a game act.

413
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:43.019
I think Jadzia Dax has moments of bite.

414
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:45.119
Obviously Kira and the alternative.

415
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:48.119
No, okay, it's tentative, but they are making some effort.

416
00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:49.079
Yeah.

417
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.799
Yeah, yeah.

418
00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:52.859
But in this show, I don't remember any at all.

419
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:53.700
Not at all.

420
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:54.059
No.

421
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.819
So I think, don't you know, those people that object to discovery and things like that and say it's woken all that?

422
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:01.859
It's this they're thinking of, isn't it?

423
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:05.220
thinking back to the good old days of enterprise when everyone was straight.

424
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:14.339
Almost always when people complain about a TV show being woke, it means that there are too many women and people of colour in it.

425
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:21.839
Like, I just think that that's what they're, they want to say. but concealing it behind the word woke.

426
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:29.640
In order to make the idea that you might have women in leading roles in shows, you know, that's obviously ridiculous.

427
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:31.079
Why would you do that?

428
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.299
It's just being woke.

429
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.839
And especially discovery is how normalised it all is.

430
00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:46.980
It's just not commented on half the time, where that lovely scene in, but to connect with the 2 kids, what I call gray and Adira, and then the 2 adults, Stamets and Colba.

431
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.500
And they're like this big gay family.

432
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:51.900
But that's never acknowledged.

433
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:53.640
They're just a family, you know.

434
00:30:53.700 --> 00:31:01.980
Whereas if DS9 is going to do a gay episode, they have to do rejoined and make it this massive thing, you know, that 2 women are...

435
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:04.680
Yeah, like 2 hot women kissing on television, you know.

436
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.779
I was directed by Avery Brooks as well, you know.

437
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.299
Issue show.

438
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:09.900
Right, come on.

439
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:11.700
Avery, there you go.

440
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:13.079
Oh, this is that scene.

441
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:18.059
This is that scene where she's literally pouring at him and then flocks just sort of goes, well, have fun, guys.

442
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:19.619
See you later.

443
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:29.519
His face later, though, when Tripp awkwardly says to me, you know, your wife's coming on to me.

444
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.680
And he's like, yes, did you have her?

445
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:33.480
Did you have a nice rose bath with us?

446
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:35.339
I love all of that.

447
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:41.160
Well, the thing is, like I started saying this before, what he's wearing and what she's wearing.

448
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:43.079
I think they look like swingers.

449
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:52.440
Like, I think it's like they want to get trip drunk and like take him back to their quarters and fuck him.

450
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.200
And he's kind of reacting like that as well.

451
00:31:55.259 --> 00:32:00.240
And I actually think that that's kind of adorable and almost certainly unintentional.

452
00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:03.660
Maybe except on Billingsley's part.

453
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.339
Absolutely unintentional.

454
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:06.900
I think, you know what?

455
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:12.720
Had they just had the nerve to be, Oh yeah, and I've got 5 husbands as well, for flocks to say that. you know, that would have been.

456
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:17.819
Okay, this is a bit where Archer, instead of saying, you know, to Paul, are you sick?

457
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.440
Do you have a disease?

458
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:22.140
He goes, I've been politically embarrassed by the Vulcans again.

459
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.859
God damn you.

460
00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:23.640
Yeah.

461
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.079
I just thought, he is awful.

462
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:32.700
It just gave me horrible flashbacks to the scenes in cogenitor.

463
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:34.440
Oh, Jenna over the yells at Trip.

464
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.819
Not both of them.

465
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.700
He yells at him twice and I think they're disgusting.

466
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:40.140
Nathan, he was looking out of that window.

467
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

468
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:43.019
Yeah.

469
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:44.880
Oh, he's such an asshole, really.

470
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.559
He really is.

471
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:53.819
And so I'm actually surprised he does do better in this episode than I expected.

472
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:55.799
And the one thing that I think is good.

473
00:32:55.859 --> 00:33:03.240
Like I said at the beginning of this, that this accepts the frame that there are innocent and guilty people who have Panar syndrome.

474
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:26.039
Uh, but Tapol absolutely refuses to say, and just is prepared to lose her job because she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to support that, that frame, and, and he goes along with her, you know, he doesn't force her, he doesn't do his usual sort of stuff about the mission and being a massive brick and stuff like that.

475
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:28.920
He just kind of lets her do it.

476
00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:31.380
And I, I like that.

477
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:32.339
I think.

478
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:36.720
But at the end, you know, when they've succeeded and she can stay on the ship and all of that.

479
00:33:36.779 --> 00:33:38.220
You think, all right, they have a moment.

480
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.319
He just goes, well, I didn't want to lose you.

481
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:41.460
You know what I'm saying?

482
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.779
God's sake.

483
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.220
Yeah, that's right.

484
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:45.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

485
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:48.839
Oh, we don't learn anything about the Vulcans.

486
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.980
Like, why do they have this?

487
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.380
You know, like they there's nothing about it.

488
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.599
You know, they're prejudiced.

489
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:55.920
There's something about diversity.

490
00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:58.319
Does that's the best bit.

491
00:33:58.319 --> 00:33:59.339
We'll come to it later.

492
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:14.699
But when Archer gets up and has a thing about how we had solved all our diversity problems, you know, a 100 years ago, even though there's only 2 aliens on this ship of 150 people and basically everyone except Travis is wise.

493
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:19.320
That's another reason why this is the most boring Star Trek, because the alien characters were always the most interesting.

494
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.480
I think back to the original series, right?

495
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:23.519
Talking about like the passion in the show.

496
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:28.679
Like, we've taken that piss out of the fact that the original series can be a bit hammy and melodramatic and all that, you know?

497
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:30.360
I'd take that over this.

498
00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:31.980
It had something to it.

499
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.280
When did Star Trek become so fucking castrated?

500
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:36.599
Yeah.

501
00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:38.820
Well, I mean, it was sort of always a bit boring.

502
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:46.079
Like the big joke about Star Trek the Next Generation was that it was people just giving long speeches to each other.

503
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.480
And, you know, both of us have found ways of enjoying that, I think.

504
00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:54.599
And the show has done that particular thing very well.

505
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.599
But here the speeches aren't all that good either.

506
00:34:57.659 --> 00:35:00.599
You know, like, it's all just, like, nothing.

507
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:02.460
The issue shows on 90s track.

508
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:03.960
They go one of 2 ways, don't they?

509
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:06.480
Like, I was comparing this last, I was watching it too.

510
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:23.219
There's another, there's a DS9 episode called Sanctuary where a load of immigrants come through the wormhole. and they fill the station full of these people and they've got horrible flaky skin that goes everywhere and everyone's being terribly racist about them and Kira's trying to rehome them on one of the Bajoran moons to give them.

511
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.780
But the Bajorans don't want them.

512
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.039
And the idea is, is that the Bajorans are behaving just like the Cardassians and they're turning away.

513
00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:36.719
Like, and it's a lot of people talking in rooms, but it's Kira, again, realising she's on the other side.

514
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.440
That's interesting.

515
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:42.780
There's a mother and son relationship where the son goes off and tries to do a terrorist act.

516
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.340
That's got a bit of emotion to it.

517
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:50.639
And it's just, it is framed like this, but it is, it's just got something tangible about it.

518
00:35:50.699 --> 00:35:52.739
Whereas this.

519
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:58.559
I mean, this is even worse than that dreadful bisexuality one on Next Generation.

520
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:00.840
You know, with Beverly Fresher.

521
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.179
Oh, yeah.

522
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:03.780
The host.

523
00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:04.679
The host.

524
00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:10.619
You know, where when the host, when the worm goes into Riker, she's like, oh, well, I'm willing to fuck you.

525
00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:22.079
And then when the world goes into... when it goes into a woman, uh, gets a bit fad and stares, you know, robotically into the camera and goes, well, we're not ready for bisexuality at this point, but maybe in the future.

526
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:29.340
We've never even heard of it in 2489 or whatever it is, for God's sake.

527
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:37.739
I'm just not sure Permanent Braggart. have the cojones to explore any of this stuff. in an interesting way.

528
00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:45.780
I think they're fundamentally out of sympathy with the premise of Star Trek.

529
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:53.460
Like, they're happy for it to be space people doing things and that's a massive thing about Star Trek that we love.

530
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:57.900
That's why I can still derive some enjoyment from this and why I still care about it.

531
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:02.400
But I don't think they're into the politics of it at all.

532
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.619
And I think that that's why they took it back.

533
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:12.000
Um, so that they could be a sort of pre-diversity version of the galaxy, you know.

534
00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:19.860
What about, um, what about Hoshi and, uh, or, you know, all the other regulars in this?

535
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.139
They get one scene apiece, don't they, in this?

536
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:22.739
Yeah.

537
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:26.219
One of them's been playing something with melons or something, isn't they?

538
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:38.219
Yeah, so Travis plays the Miles O'Brien on Star Trek, the next generation role of just sitting there talking about some sporting thing that's caused him to injure himself while the doctor fusses over it.

539
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:42.000
Do see his very impressive washboard app, so don't we?

540
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:43.559
No, Travis is a good looking man.

541
00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:44.820
I don't object to that.

542
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:50.519
Hoshi is used because Tripp tries to keep her at the dinner table when Flux's wife comes along.

543
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:52.800
And she's like, no, I've got to go.

544
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:56.639
And then and then she realises there's something going on it and she's out of there very fast, Hoshi.

545
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:03.599
But it's it's, that's the most I've seen Hoshi do in an episode of Enterprise.

546
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:05.340
Like, really?

547
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.079
We've done 4 or five.

548
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:09.000
Yeah, she's hardly been in them.

549
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:14.219
She gets the old episode where she's spotlighted, but really she doesn't do a lot.

550
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:18.119
It's the original series thing again of the 3 core characters, isn't it?

551
00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:19.380
Yeah.

552
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:19.920
Yeah.

553
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:20.820
Yeah.

554
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.079
What's happening here?

555
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:25.139
To Paul's looking a bit perturbed, staring at a screen, you know?

556
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.679
She's looking at things on the internet. you can say.

557
00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:34.260
She's probably on, you know, she's on one of those medical websites that tells you you have cancer.

558
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:35.820
I reckon that's it.

559
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.480
There's a bit in a minute, right?

560
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:48.659
Where he goes down to the medical conference and he goes, right, you know, I'm invoking this law that we're going to have a hearing about this thing, right?

561
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:54.780
And I don't think archers ever look so pathetic and castrated when the guy just goes, all right, we'll have it.

562
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:56.039
And then he just walks into the next room.

563
00:38:56.099 --> 00:39:00.059
The door shuts on Archer and he's standing there going, yeah, we're going to have it or something.

564
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.699
It just looks so pathetic standing there.

565
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:07.559
And I was like, this guy just, it's weird because it's Scott Bacular and he should be amazing.

566
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:21.780
It just doesn't have the presence of someone like Avery Brooks or Kate Mulgrew or something has gone fundamentally wrong with how they have characterised Archer and I can't quite put my finger on what it is because he's a great actor.

567
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.980
He's a terrific actor.

568
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.840
Yeah, I agree.

569
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:27.900
It is it's baffling how unlikeable they make him.

570
00:39:28.019 --> 00:39:32.340
And, you know, he's just fundamentally charming bacular, I think.

571
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.079
And I don't know.

572
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:35.340
I just can't believe it.

573
00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:40.260
This made me laugh this, this, um... the photo blow up.

574
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.179
It's New York in the background, isn't it?

575
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.480
But it's like it doesn't read like they're in a city.

576
00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:49.139
It reads like someone has blown up a photo and pasted it on the wall.

577
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:52.380
That's because that is exactly what they have done.

578
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.840
But you know what this looks like?

579
00:39:54.900 --> 00:40:03.119
I've got some old open university videos of BBC Shakespeare productions, where, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, columns and that.

580
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:06.420
You know, it all looks very, very, uh, too big. them very well.

581
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

582
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.380
Well, this looks like with a bloody Star Trek budget.

583
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:13.139
Outrageous, isn't it?

584
00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:21.900
There are times when I watch these 90s episodes and more and more now as we're doing this thing together. where I'm like, all right, Kurtzman Tregg does have the edge.

585
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:22.260
Yeah.

586
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.260
It's like he's the gay Vulcan.

587
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:29.820
He's been...

588
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:30.840
No, he's not gay.

589
00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:34.320
I mean, there's nothing there's nothing about him at all, is it?

590
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.199
No, no.

591
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.739
I thought he was going to like my Mel with her at this point and I could do this, you know, then.

592
00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:44.940
Yeah, no, but, you know, she doesn't, she's an innocent.

593
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.940
She's an innocent person who has banana syndrome.

594
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:53.820
Like, what kind of interesting twist or turn could possibly happen in this story?

595
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.960
It's ripped away from the enterprise and publicly humiliated.

596
00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:59.159
No, that's never going to happen.

597
00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:02.039
We're never going to hear about this man ever again.

598
00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:03.719
So who cares about him?

599
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:09.360
You know, they're going to upturn Vulcan society and expose this thing.

600
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.920
No, that's never good.

601
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:13.199
We don't even learn anything about that. either.

602
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:14.579
We don't learn anything about it.

603
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.820
Like, or like no one learns anything.

604
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:22.260
Or any detail about these people that have the ability to do it.

605
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:26.760
Like, are they, are they having massive mind-meld orgies or something?

606
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:28.380
Like, what do they object to?

607
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:28.980
What is the problem?

608
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:31.019
Yeah, we don't know.

609
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:32.219
Well, they do say.

610
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.260
No, they say, that because...

611
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:35.699
It's an American society.

612
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:43.739
No, the expression of emotion is regulated in Vulcan society.

613
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:51.300
And do you remember the thing where to bring and Spock were kissing in the restaurant in the 1st episode of Strange New Worlds.

614
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:56.280
And the waiter came up and said, I think you'd better take this somewhere else.

615
00:41:56.340 --> 00:41:59.099
And Dupring says, yeah, let's do that.

616
00:41:59.099 --> 00:42:02.099
I knew to point out that that was a restaurant. thought that was their bedroom.

617
00:42:02.820 --> 00:42:05.519
They were getting so tasty with each other.

618
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:07.679
I'd rather have that in the mess, though, you know?

619
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:15.840
So yeah, so it's about the regulation of emotion and these people are sharing emotions with each other whereas emotions should be concealed or controlled.

620
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:25.139
And so that is kind of a thing that sort of Vulcanish and makes sense, but it doesn't teach us anything about them.

621
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.199
We don't, you know, nothing comes of this.

622
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:32.219
And I just think it's ridiculous making the Falcans such assholes.

623
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:35.760
They're really racist in this as well, in enterprise.

624
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:36.599
They really dreadful.

625
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:43.679
Do you remember that episode of TNG violations when that fella comes onto the ship and he's mind raping people?

626
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:47.159
And it's quite for the time.

627
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:54.539
No, no, but it's quite confronting for the time because Troy is traumatised by what she goes through.

628
00:42:54.599 --> 00:43:00.719
And the dream sequences that they do are quite adult and they're filmed in quite an uncomfortable way.

629
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:01.800
Well, because they're about rape.

630
00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:08.219
Like one of them, what happens to Deanna is she dreams that he's forcing herself himself on her.

631
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:14.340
So I think it probably tips over the line a bit, but at least it's trying.

632
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:15.420
Do you know what I mean?

633
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:16.320
At least it's doing something.

634
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:18.059
It makes you feel something when you watch it.

635
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:20.820
It makes you feel uncomfortable. yeah Yeah.

636
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.119
I think that's the worst thing I feel uncomfortable.

637
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:28.500
That's the worst thing of all is I just don't care.

638
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.260
And I am invested in this topic.

639
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.239
My ex-partner had HIV.

640
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:38.940
And I remember I showed him this after I watched this and I didn't say what it was about.

641
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:42.119
And at the end, I said what it was about and he went, was it?

642
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:46.019
Like, he didn't even get it. fucking HIV?

643
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:48.719
For God's sake, you know, like...

644
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:49.500
No.

645
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:50.639
It's, yeah.

646
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:57.239
Yeah, sorry, I just talked all over you trying to mention that uh, Fox's wife was...

647
00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:08.400
Oh, just, yeah, did they, like, playing Footsie under the table, again, in a sort of just dismally kind of adolescent conception of how adults behave.

648
00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:14.099
Tripping Malcolm Reed now in the gym talking about how desperately uncomfortable this all is.

649
00:44:14.219 --> 00:44:16.199
Could this be any more heterosexual this show?

650
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:16.739
Honestly.

651
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.480
Yeah, what is this gym?

652
00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:19.679
Jesus Christ.

653
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:21.480
And you are right.

654
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:24.000
Like, these sets are dull, aren't they?

655
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:29.400
Like, I, I, even compared to like how they lie, DSI and Voyager.

656
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:31.980
And they came before this.

657
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:34.440
Yeah, it's the even lighting.

658
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:53.639
I actually think the idea that it looks like a submarine is actually a pretty good idea because the Enterprise looks like a cruise ship or something like that in Star Trek, the Next Generation, and it's very plush and very comfortable, and they want to take it back to its roots, make it feel like we're in space.

659
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.840
But the lighting is so evil.

660
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.059
It's all coming from above again, isn't it?

661
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:02.219
Rather than coming out.

662
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:06.900
That's right And so I don't mind the details of the sets, but I hate the lighting.

663
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:07.380
I think.

664
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:13.019
What I like about these sets is how it feels like they could fall apart any minute.

665
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:13.980
So when they're attacked.

666
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:19.079
And I really like the engineering set because they have to climb all over it to get things done.

667
00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:20.639
So there's a lot of movement going on.

668
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:21.659
And like there's one.

669
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:25.019
I don't know if you've reached there. one in series 3 where they're on the bridge.

670
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:33.059
They being attacked by the Zindi left, right, and centre, and the whole bloody light from the top of the set comes crashing down and Tripp has to get out of the way pretty quick.

671
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:40.920
It feels it feels a bit unstable, you know, and any minute it could fall apart of the seams because they are new to this, aren't they?

672
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:42.539
Yeah, it's very cool.

673
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:48.119
I think there would have been a way of doing it, a way of doing it that made it look better. that made it look more like a submarine.

674
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:50.039
Reflective services, for instance.

675
00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:57.840
You know, make everything look like it was made out of metal instead of, you know, like a bloody t-shirt printed.

676
00:45:57.900 --> 00:46:00.719
More reflective services written on it, all right?

677
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:05.519
Does this determine your enjoyment of TV?

678
00:46:05.579 --> 00:46:07.260
It really does.

679
00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:16.380
I've only discovered doing this podcast how much it matters and this is just, this is so boring for that reason.

680
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.539
I haven't had a look on that.

681
00:46:18.659 --> 00:46:19.500
Ralph, you know.

682
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:23.400
I'd love to know what the actors thought. about this script.

683
00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:24.960
Yeah.

684
00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:40.739
Yeah, just imagine themselves saying, can you imagine them saying in, you know, like an oppressed thing, oh, you know, we were very proud to be tackling this thorny issue 20 years late or whatever, 15 years too late.

685
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.820
You know, like, and we think we've been very brave and stuff like that.

686
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.280
I just think I would have wanted to smack them all.

687
00:46:47.579 --> 00:46:51.360
They probably are very proud about what I did here.

688
00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:55.199
We tossed them a bone. you know, we did we did our bit.

689
00:46:55.260 --> 00:47:01.079
Yeah, but this, like, I thought that that was, to Paul was really good there.

690
00:47:01.139 --> 00:47:06.840
And that's the sort of thing that you might expect Archer to kind of push back against and he doesn't.

691
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:16.199
So that speech where she says, I'm not telling them how I got it because it doesn't matter because there aren't good and bad people with Panar syndrome.

692
00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:17.519
It's just a disease.

693
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:36.420
And, and, you know, um, she's doing the right thing and he, he kind of looks, I don't know what I'm going to do, but he, he backs off. he decides to rising and go down and it's interesting because he's the only one that's behaving emotionally in this.

694
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:41.099
He's quite angry that he went and bashed on the door and said, get out of here, you know, we're going to have a hearing, blah, blah, blah.

695
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.599
But we hate him so much.

696
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:44.400
We don't really care that he's angry.

697
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.039
Yeah.

698
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:51.179
Yeah.

699
00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:53.159
It's a bit miserable.

700
00:47:53.219 --> 00:48:10.139
The other thing that I think was interesting was the, um, them saying that they weren't putting much effort into researching Panar syndrome because it was only bad people who got it.

701
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:12.659
And I thought that that was interesting.

702
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:18.599
And I don't know what the rhetoric was around that or how people felt at the time.

703
00:48:18.659 --> 00:48:19.619
I can't remember at all.

704
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:29.219
And obviously we're in a sort of weird situation where there are all kinds of treatments and things now that are pretty effective.

705
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:32.099
You watched It's a Sin, didn't you?

706
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.900
Russell Davis is a sin.

707
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:37.559
Now, I think there's there's a 102nd scene.

708
00:48:37.619 --> 00:48:44.820
Yeah, that encapsulates the horror of HIV better than 40 minutes of enterprise here.

709
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:53.280
That's the bit where Neil Patrick Harris's character dies and then we cut to them rushing into the room, changing the bed, turning the mattress.

710
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:55.260
It's like, right, he's dead gone next.

711
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

712
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:01.800
Or just the stuff about people being locked in rooms and being given their food.

713
00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:03.000
Do you know what I mean?

714
00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:07.500
Like having to stay away from the door and the way that people were isolated and stuff like that.

715
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:11.880
And like, it's enough to provoke an angry response in you.

716
00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:12.179
Yeah?

717
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:13.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

718
00:49:13.139 --> 00:49:13.739
What's this?

719
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:18.360
You know, they might transfer someone to so that they're not on our TV show anymore.

720
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:21.659
It's not the stakes are not that high.

721
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:23.219
Old, as is absolute.

722
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.300
There we go.

723
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:26.400
My interest has perked up a little bit.

724
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:33.840
He must, they must have fell so like these were the most thankless roles they've ever had.

725
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.960
Yeah, it's miserable, isn't it?

726
00:49:37.019 --> 00:49:47.639
I mean, it is just like, even the, the, the sort of the most neglected character on, say, Voyager, I know, Chakotay, Harry Kim, they all had a couple of episodes a year where they came out.

727
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:53.099
I think there's one episode that he gets in the four-year run that's about his character.

728
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:56.699
It's not great.

729
00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:58.800
No, it's miserable.

730
00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:01.139
And Hoshi gets more, doesn't she?

731
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:03.239
I'm sure I've seen like one a year, I think.

732
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:04.800
If that, yeah.

733
00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:15.000
She, you know, Bushy gets the wonderful uh 2 part Mirror Universe episode where she's the Giorgio character, the evil bitch just trying to take over and she succeeds as well.

734
00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:16.079
I think she kills half the crew.

735
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:18.780
That sounds really good.

736
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:19.739
It's really good.

737
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.320
This is so TV, isn't it right?

738
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:24.360
So, Tripp wants to speak to the doctor.

739
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:26.159
It's not about something medical.

740
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:28.980
It's about how his wife wants to fuck him.

741
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:36.360
And Travis has to leave the sick bay because we've decided we're having this scene in this set.

742
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:40.019
Normally he would say, Travis, just wait there a second.

743
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.679
I'll go out here in the corridor and have this conversation.

744
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.599
You have to wait this out before.

745
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:49.079
Oh, it was...

746
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:49.559
Did you remember?

747
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:53.760
Jake and Nog and Cisco having dinner when Marsok came in.

748
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.599
Everyone has to leave because we're talking to Martok in this set.

749
00:50:57.780 --> 00:51:01.199
We're not lighting the corridor for this.

750
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:04.019
We should have hung a lantern.

751
00:51:04.019 --> 00:51:05.400
All right, we'll go then, shall we?

752
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:07.199
Okay, that's right.

753
00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.360
I'm injured, but I'll go, will I?

754
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:12.239
I'll take these abs out of here straight away.

755
00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:15.059
And even that was like, you know, stay away from those creatures.

756
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.099
You know, I was just like, oh, it's mine.

757
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:18.119
Yeah.

758
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:25.440
And the detail about it was that he didn't know whether they were melons or not.

759
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:27.059
Like we play this game.

760
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:28.139
We throw melons.

761
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:31.260
I guess they're melons and I thought, all right, that's a thing.

762
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.780
Did you watch that episode towards the end of the season?

763
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:38.820
I mean, I think it's a fairly solid little run at the end of this season as they head into three.

764
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:44.099
But there's one really terrible episode where Tapal is suffering from, what's it called?

765
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:46.980
The, when they get really horny, the Vulcans.

766
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:48.780
Oh, upon far.

767
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:50.460
Yeah, Bonfire.

768
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:56.099
And she's literally going around the ship, literally, and the whole thing's framed like horror movie that she's going around trying to fuck everybody.

769
00:51:56.159 --> 00:52:01.800
And it's just like, I'm not sure what this show's trying to say about sexuality at all, you know?

770
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:07.019
We wear women's of plough meek soup at people and stuff like that.

771
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:08.400
Married with this episode.

772
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:13.739
It seems to be saying, you know, men, beware women that are horny, you know, you're being a lot of trouble.

773
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:15.840
It's so pathetic.

774
00:52:15.900 --> 00:52:17.519
Like, be a grown up.

775
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:21.539
And I love his reaction.

776
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:23.340
I love the way the doctor reacts.

777
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:26.280
It's just like, for God's sake, she's a great lady.

778
00:52:26.340 --> 00:52:27.360
Just have sex with her.

779
00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:28.320
Don't be such a baby.

780
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:41.219
I just, I just think uh, sexuality and not is is something that we will always come back to and always cringe just a little bit.

781
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:43.980
Yeah, I think every now and again.

782
00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:51.119
Every now and again, like Cisco Cassidy will be like, okay, this feels like a real relationship, you know, but it's still in between.

783
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:53.820
Yeah, that might be the only one.

784
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:59.159
Oh, even this, but here she goes, oh, yeah, yeah, no, they're never going to agree to a conference.

785
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:00.840
Oh, well, I've already arranged it.

786
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:03.179
It's like, oh, what's the fucking point of that?

787
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:03.840
dialogue.

788
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:10.619
They are envied.

789
00:53:10.619 --> 00:53:12.840
And it's just like she's packing a bag.

790
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:14.880
It's so boring.

791
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:24.719
Do you remember Beverly paying her bag at the beginning of suspicions and she's got like a tennis racket and shit and it's like, she's got fun luggage to pack.

792
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:25.739
Do you remember?

793
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:35.400
When Kira was reassigned in the 2nd episode of series two, DS9, and everyone comes to visit and they did a whole French fast scene, where she's like, I do care.

794
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:36.000
No, they haven't.

795
00:53:36.059 --> 00:53:36.659
No, they didn't.

796
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:38.760
She's talking to about 10 people. you know?

797
00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:39.960
I hate to say it again.

798
00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:41.099
There's an exception to the rule.

799
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:42.960
Yeah.

800
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:44.519
Well, don't worry.

801
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:49.500
DS9 had plenty of scenes where people were packing up to go and then someone walked in and went, oh, don't worry, I'll sort with it.

802
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:49.800
You know?

803
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:54.059
Oh, it's the same bloody CGI shot.

804
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:55.559
This CGI shot.

805
00:53:55.619 --> 00:54:12.539
I reckon there's an episode of Lower Deck series 2 called An Embarrassment of Duplers, which is set on this old space station, and I reckon they use design cues from this episode on that space station, and if I was a more dedicated podcaster, I would have looked it up.

806
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.380
But I think that this absolutely reminded me of that.

807
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:24.420
It's where they go for the captains, all the captains, uh, of all the ships that aren't California class get to all go to a big party.

808
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:29.940
That's all of them at this point, I'm afraid.

809
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:33.059
We've left Enterprise now, right?

810
00:54:33.119 --> 00:54:38.639
So I just want to ask you, what's the predominant colours in these fascinating sets on the medical conference?

811
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:40.679
Brown.

812
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.320
It's really boring.

813
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.019
Yes, the predominant colours of all the costumes here.

814
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:47.579
Yeah, yeah.

815
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:50.400
Yeah, everyone's doing drabber to look at.

816
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:53.039
Yeah, it really is, isn't it?

817
00:54:53.099 --> 00:54:54.059
It's the future.

818
00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:55.260
It should be exciting.

819
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:58.019
Like, why don't they have, it's so boring.

820
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:02.760
Like there's some kind of hippie details in the background with a candles and shit.

821
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.500
I'm going to go back to...

822
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:05.940
Remember how colourful everything was?

823
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:12.659
Even Spot's brain, we went to all those sets that were pink and, you know, crazy had crazy gels up the walls and things.

824
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.960
When did Star Trek get so boring looking?

825
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:31.739
I think that, I mean, I think TNG reacts against the, the kind of, um, technicolour, you know, primary colour thing of, of original Star Trek.

826
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:34.800
And everything ends up looking a bit worse.

827
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:37.739
Everything ends up really beige and stuff.

828
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.820
Even the 1st Star Trek movie is all a bit brown, isn't it?

829
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:43.860
Like the sets are just not that great.

830
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.940
I don't know.

831
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:45.780
But like, do you remember?

832
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:46.440
I don't know.

833
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:50.579
He's the gay Vulcan making a speech, which is shocking croller over here.

834
00:55:50.639 --> 00:56:05.820
And it is being spoken about in terms of, oh, it's so milk toast and so pleaty. you know, like, yes, we're gay and we just can't help it and we want you to stop being mean to us.

835
00:56:05.940 --> 00:56:10.079
Can I quote something in like reaction to this?

836
00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:10.980
You ready?

837
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:15.780
You cannot destroy an idea.

838
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.340
It's true.

839
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:18.599
I created it.

840
00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:19.860
Okay, he's a bit over the top.

841
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:20.760
Bloody hell.

842
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:22.139
I felt for him in the moment.

843
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:22.739
Yeah.

844
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:37.320
No, but and so they've decided, is it because they've decided to give it to Vulcans and Vulcans who just think the chief thing about Vulcans is they talk like space people so that we don't care about them, which wasn't what Spock did.

845
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:39.239
He didn't talk like a space person.

846
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:42.539
Are we supposed to hate the Vulcans?

847
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.800
we supposed to really dislike them?

848
00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:44.760
I think we are.

849
00:56:44.820 --> 00:56:45.420
Yep.

850
00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:49.320
Well, why do we spend so much time on our own characters that we're not supposed to enjoy?

851
00:56:49.380 --> 00:56:54.539
So the point of the Vulcans, don't the Vulcans...

852
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.260
They hold them back.

853
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:57.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

854
00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:02.340
So his dad would have gone out in space a lot quicker. if that's right.

855
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:03.539
The Vulcans hadn't held.

856
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:06.179
If it hadn't been for them, pesky Vulcans and they're racing.

857
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:11.159
I think he died before Archer had the opportunity to go out, so he really known about it.

858
00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:13.079
And yet, that was his biggest dream, his dad.

859
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:14.820
I think that was Archer's issue in the 1st episode.

860
00:57:14.940 --> 00:57:16.320
Right.

861
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:19.440
Oh, look, look.

862
00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.300
Grow up, trip.

863
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.260
Jesus Christ.

864
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:27.179
They're just sniffing one another and he's looking off in another direction. sniffed them as well.

865
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:29.340
Let's all sniff each other.

866
00:57:29.460 --> 00:57:29.820
Come on.

867
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:34.199
Well, if you if you want to be invited to one of their parties.

868
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:41.099
Everyone, put your runabout keys in the pot.

869
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:41.639
Okay?

870
00:57:41.699 --> 00:57:43.679
Yep, yep, exactly.

871
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:47.880
We've got plastic bags for your clothes.

872
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:56.579
Did, um, can I ask, did, do you think, um, looking for a market in all the wrong places dealt with sexuality better than this one?

873
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:57.539
We watched that recently.

874
00:57:58.019 --> 00:58:02.280
Um, I mean, it had Dax who was just frothing for war throughout.

875
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:11.099
It wasn't realistic and it wasn't growing up, but it wasn't adolescent.

876
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:15.119
It was sort of TV realistic sex. you know what I mean?

877
00:58:15.179 --> 00:58:26.039
And I did think, like, there were elements of the Kira Miles thing, which I thought were kind of fun and funny and okay.

878
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:29.099
I still love that line, that line when they realise they've gone too far.

879
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:32.039
Yes, it's like just go. just go.

880
00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:34.380
I'm going to go and see Goldfunk Shakar.

881
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.619
You go and fuck your wife and we'll just never talk about this again.

882
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:38.760
You know what I mean?

883
00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:42.719
Like, that was that was kind of okay.

884
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:45.179
But Julian was a prick in that one.

885
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:45.780
Do you know what I mean?

886
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:46.860
Oh, I bet you caught.

887
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:50.579
I bet you caught a look at oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

888
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:52.260
Yeah, yeah.

889
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:53.760
I guess not pretend people.

890
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:55.679
Let's not pretend that people like that don't exist.

891
00:58:55.739 --> 00:58:57.960
I know, but it's pathetic.

892
00:58:58.019 --> 00:59:00.539
You know, it's they're pathetic people.

893
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.739
I think I said something about a bloat yesterday, do you know?

894
00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:06.539
No, that's different.

895
00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:11.159
Oh, is this where they're going, oh, well, you can hang around now, great, great.

896
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:12.780
So what's going to happen to these people?

897
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:14.340
I'm not sure, really.

898
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:15.179
No, nothing.

899
00:59:15.179 --> 00:59:16.800
Sure, that'll be all right. them again.

900
00:59:16.860 --> 00:59:18.300
Jesus Christ.

901
00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:23.579
Oh, wow, you must be very disappointed that he broke his promise to you.

902
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:24.780
It's all about you.

903
00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:34.320
He broke his promise because he wanted to make the political point she wanted to make and Archer always puts the blame in the wrong place, doesn't he?

904
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:35.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

905
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:39.360
He never quite figures out the root of what the problem actually is.

906
00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:59.519
There is just almost a sense in which the episode thinks that Eurus should say that, thinks that he should out himself and say that she's innocent, and that that's a reasonable deal, because we're just kind of happy for the episode to end.

907
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:09.300
That's a good happy ending for everyone except Yuros, who's lost his job, but he just kept mind melding with people and he completely deserved it.

908
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:13.500
I just think it's an absolute failure as an issue episode.

909
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:15.000
Like just miserable.

910
01:00:15.059 --> 01:00:16.139
What is fun?

911
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:17.039
What did you take away from it?

912
01:00:17.099 --> 01:00:18.059
What did you take away from it?

913
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:18.780
What did you learn?

914
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.420
What did you, you know, what did you learn about the characters?

915
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:23.699
What did you learn about the disease?

916
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:26.760
What did you learn about the people that are spreading this thing?

917
01:00:26.820 --> 01:00:30.599
What did we learn about Vulcan society apart from the fact they're pricks?

918
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:31.260
We knew that already.

919
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:32.760
Yeah, yeah.

920
01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:38.639
Well, they're racist and horrible and homophobic and just dreadful and the show sort of is as well.

921
01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:40.800
So are the human characters in this.

922
01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:41.639
Yeah.

923
01:00:41.699 --> 01:00:43.500
I'm not sure who we're supposed to like.

924
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:48.059
I think the worst thing, like, where's Tripp's big dick energy?

925
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:57.420
That guy, I've seen him with his shirt off, like he's, he should not be as awkward about sex as he is in this episode.

926
01:00:57.539 --> 01:01:00.000
He's a very, very handsome man.

927
01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:08.280
But they love they freaking love putting Tripp in that situation because in the 3rd episode, they make him pregnant.

928
01:01:08.340 --> 01:01:12.119
So they make him, you know, experience things from the woman's point of view there.

929
01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:17.460
I think he's the one that to Paul's hunting through the ship in that episode later in the season.

930
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:19.139
So, you know, he would be.

931
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:21.539
Oh, it's all just very terrible.

932
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:24.179
And he into Paul hype sex in series three.

933
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:31.559
I genuinely think this period, so you've got your precious cargo, you've got your stigma and you've got your future tense.

934
01:01:31.619 --> 01:01:37.139
This is like the Nadir of the Star Trek franchise.

935
01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:41.940
This is all that was coming out and it's all pretty terrible.

936
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.420
So I'm surprised they survived this 2nd year.

937
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:46.320
I'm honest.

938
01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:54.300
I think probably at this point they're just exhausted that they've done what, you know, 21 seasons of this.

939
01:01:54.360 --> 01:02:03.119
They've got a premise, which they thought would be interesting, but they've just basically been doing Star Trek things again.

940
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.300
And they've kind of run out of things to do.

941
01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:10.500
And the characters aren't interesting or likeable enough.

942
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:16.920
And so they've got a bit of a problem, I think, to do something interesting going forward.

943
01:02:16.980 --> 01:02:19.380
They fundamentally had to rewrite the entire show.

944
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:28.079
Put it in a new section of space and bring in a whole new reef of alien characters to do anything original with this show.

945
01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:30.179
If you'll indulge me.

946
01:02:30.300 --> 01:02:38.340
I've got a quote here from Brandon Bragger and Rick Berman before we go about this fantastic issue episode that they have written.

947
01:02:38.460 --> 01:02:44.219
Brandon Bragger remarks, we're not here to provide answers to questions.

948
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:47.099
We're here to provoke thought about an issue.

949
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:51.059
This episode stands on its own, even if you don't draw the analogy.

950
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:54.780
It's still an interesting episode because it deals with general prejudice.

951
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.760
The metaphor will be clear to some people.

952
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:00.000
That's right.

953
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:01.079
That's really aiming high.

954
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:03.179
We're here to provide answers.

955
01:03:03.179 --> 01:03:03.900
Well, we do.

956
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:06.360
Well, thank you very much for not providing an answer.

957
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:08.400
So there's a terrible problem that happened 15 years ago.

958
01:03:08.460 --> 01:03:13.260
Rick Berman says they didn't actually say they'd like us to come up with a storyline.

959
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:21.179
They invited us to a presentation they had, which was quite impressive that they asked all the producers on the lot to attend, which Brandon and I did.

960
01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:34.739
This episode depicts the Vulcan physicians as unwilling to supply research, medicine, or preventative efforts in order to stop the spread of this disease, simply because they don't control the behaviour of the Vulcan subset.

961
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:37.260
Oh, he even says it in the quote adult.

962
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:44.699
Many in today's society believe that is this kind of intolerance and ignorance that allows HIV AIDS epidemic to spread.

963
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:47.940
In this case, the people are genetically capable performing my males.

964
01:03:48.000 --> 01:04:01.619
This is all something that would be different in the age of Kirk and Picard, but in our century, there is definitely a stigma against people who go against normal mors and policies and attempt this very emotional and intimate act of a mind man.

965
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:02.639
What is he talking about?

966
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:08.880
Well, he's trying to talk about this without mentioning gay people at all.

967
01:04:08.940 --> 01:04:17.519
And that's the thing, they are so uncomfortable about it, and that's what's wrecked this episode.

968
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:35.099
And interestingly, there is one other point on memory alpha, whereas some critics, such as John Ruck of the Boston Herald, felt that this episode was far too vague in dealing with prejudice based on sexual orientation. honestly.

969
01:04:35.159 --> 01:04:42.599
Nathan, I don't think we're going to see an episode of Enterprise that is as dreary as that one.

970
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:43.559
Yeah, I'm hoping.

971
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:44.280
It's possible.

972
01:04:47.340 --> 01:05:00.719
All right, it's time for us to pick our next episode, and so Joe is on Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and can you tell us which series we're choosing from?

973
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:01.739
All of them.

974
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.619
Because I think that's a low effort choice.

975
01:05:04.679 --> 01:05:05.760
The default choice.

976
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:06.480
Oh, okay.

977
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:10.019
No, no, no, no, no. hang on. fine.

978
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:12.780
I've been guilty of it quite a lot.

979
01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:14.940
Except I'm going to keep pressing the button.

980
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:16.500
Until I get a two-parter.

981
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:18.239
There you go Oh my god.

982
01:05:18.300 --> 01:05:19.500
That could take forever.

983
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:21.119
There aren't that many times.

984
01:05:21.179 --> 01:05:22.079
No worries, my payoff.

985
01:05:22.139 --> 01:05:22.559
I got time.

986
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:24.300
Okay.

987
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:26.159
Okay.

988
01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:29.519
I'll be embarrassed by the process before we reach a two-parter, I think.

989
01:05:29.579 --> 01:05:30.000
All right.

990
01:05:30.059 --> 01:05:30.900
Go for it.

991
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:37.679
So my 1st episode is Star Trek, the Next Generation, season seven.

992
01:05:37.739 --> 01:05:38.340
Oh, dear.

993
01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:40.559
Parallels.

994
01:05:41.099 --> 01:05:43.800
Oh, that's actually fun.

995
01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:44.460
That's wharf.

996
01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:46.860
Hop into lots of alternative, yeah.

997
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:48.599
And that's where he 1st starts boning Troy.

998
01:05:48.659 --> 01:05:49.619
Yes, that's true.

999
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:51.599
He realises they're in a relationship.

1000
01:05:52.019 --> 01:05:54.179
Oh, Nathan.

1001
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:56.940
Oh, I'm going to hold this up to the screen.

1002
01:05:57.059 --> 01:05:58.380
It's not a two-parter.

1003
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:00.000
We might have to do it.

1004
01:06:00.059 --> 01:06:01.980
Okay, show me, show me, show me.

1005
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:03.539
It's Deep Space 9.

1006
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:04.739
Season seven.

1007
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:05.940
Episode 15.

1008
01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:09.059
Bada bing, bada bang.

1009
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:10.800
Oh, I think so.

1010
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:11.159
Yep.

1011
01:06:11.219 --> 01:06:11.760
Yeah.

1012
01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:15.059
Although we can't do another comedy, DS9 episode.

1013
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:15.420
Can we?

1014
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:17.639
We're giving people the wrong impression about this show.

1015
01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:19.619
All comedies as far as I'm concerned.

1016
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:22.320
Even the one where Norglooses his leg.

1017
01:06:22.380 --> 01:06:22.800
You sure?

1018
01:06:22.860 --> 01:06:24.420
We done a DSM recently.

1019
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:25.380
Yep we're doing it.

1020
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:26.219
Oh okay.

1021
01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:31.139
I mean, is everybody dressed as the nines?

1022
01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:32.340
It's the highest episode.

1023
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.739
Penny Johnson Gerald's in there being fabulous.

1024
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:37.260
Yep, there's a musical number at the end.

1025
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:43.260
There's a political issue that they deal with without filing all the serial numbers of it.

1026
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:51.059
It's properly good. 90s trek, no reflective surfaces, but I'm absolutely fine that I don't mind.

1027
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:53.880
And my challenge to you is this.

1028
01:06:53.940 --> 01:06:59.820
I defy you to watch this episode and tell me that the score isn't fantastic.

1029
01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:01.079
Oh, okay.

1030
01:07:01.139 --> 01:07:02.039
Yep.

1031
01:07:02.099 --> 01:07:02.519
All right.

1032
01:07:02.579 --> 01:07:03.840
All right, let's do it.

1033
01:07:12.900 --> 01:07:17.699
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1034
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:23.639
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1035
01:07:23.699 --> 01:07:28.920
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Cisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1036
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:34.260
This episode was recorded on the 5th of July 2022 and released on the 8th of July.

1037
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:39.719
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, Deep Space 9, batter bing, batter bang.

1038
01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:00.059
Hello, I'm talking, and it's working.

1039
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:02.639
Although I seem to be very quiet for some reason.

1040
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:03.360
What about you?

1041
01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:07.139
No, you're very loud in my ears right now, not quite at all.

1042
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:09.300
You're right.

1043
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:11.820
You could turn your volume down.

1044
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:14.400
Oh, yeah, I could do that.

1045
01:08:14.460 --> 01:08:14.940
Yeah.

1046
01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:17.039
Yeah.

1047
01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:18.600
Anyway, doesn't matter.

1048
01:08:18.659 --> 01:08:21.720
We'll be equalised. each way. a second.

1049
01:08:21.779 --> 01:08:22.439
Wait a second.

1050
01:08:22.500 --> 01:08:25.500
Okay, I want to, hey, Joe, hi, and then I want to say something.

1051
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.439
Um, but bum, bum, bum, bum.

1052
01:08:28.500 --> 01:08:30.119
I have a thing if you want.

1053
01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:31.859
Okay, I'll flow to you.

1054
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:32.460
Yeah.

1055
01:08:32.460 --> 01:08:32.880
Yeah.

1056
01:08:39.420 --> 01:08:42.180
Hey, Joe. Hi.