WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:09:25

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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I think it's become clear that we have a bit of a fractious

3
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relationship with Star Trek enterprise.

4
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Do you think that's fair?

5
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Uh, yes, I think half of Star Trek Enterprise is the worst Star

6
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Trek we're ever going to watch and the other half is possible.

7
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And I think you and I have different halves there.

8
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I mean, to be fair, I haven't watched it all.

9
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Don't you be telling me you think the 1st 2 seasons of Enterprise

10
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are possible?

11
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Well, no, I don't think they're passable, but I have been hate

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watching series 3 of Enterprise while I've been, I don't know

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redesigning the flight through entirety website and stuff.

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And it is politically miserable.

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Although I think it does do some interesting storytelling thing.

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So mostly I don't like it, but there are bits of it that I can

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admire.

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And I am actually starting to warm to the just the thing, like the

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sets and the ship and the regulars, particularly um, to poll

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surprisingly, trip, of course, and the doctor, who is absolutely

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magnificent.

22
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Well, what's that thing?

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What's that thing when you're stuck in a prison cell for so long?

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and then you could get adjusted syndrome.

25
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Yeah, you know, these dreary characters are actually, you're

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starting to see the light with them because you've spent a bit too

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much time with them.

28
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Well, I mean, it's still Star Trek, you know, and I love Star

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Trek.

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And even this episode that we're going to watch today, which I

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think is pretty miserable, has some things going for it, one or 2

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things that I think are properly Star Trekier than I quite enjoy.

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I had to watch this 3 times to see things of worth in it.

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After my 1st watch.

35
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Well, no, my 1st watch was when I wrote the review for my blog

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where I really went to town at how appallingly, I think, this

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whole episode is handled.

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Then I watched it again for this.

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Then I watched it again, thinking, all right, I'll give it another

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go and I hated it even more.

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And this time I watched it and I basically saw a single character

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and everything that character did in this episode was worth

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watching, but everything else was pretty terrible.

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I want to disagree with you.

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I think season 3 of Enterprise is the best season they did.

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I think it's very ambitious in how it's structured and for them to

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do a season-long arc. which is something they've really pushed it

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away from.

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Even DS9 didn't attend that.

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And they wanted to do it, but the suits were like, no, they knew

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that their cars were marked.

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So they were like, right, we're going to go out.

53
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One last stab at doing something pretty amazing.

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And I think the hit rate of episodes.

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Like my favourites are probably your least favourites because I

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love Star Trek when it's shitting all over the Roddenberry ideals

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and basically saying, well, sometimes we've got to act like

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complete bricks to get what we want and I quite like a bit of

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that.

60
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Well, you objected that with some of the DS9s we've watched, you've

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rejected that as well, didn't you, in like in the Pound Moonlight

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episodes like that, where you were a bit uneasy with...

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I think it's a bit cheap.

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And I think it's a bit easy.

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And I think that remember this is drama they can do what they

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want.

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And so having our regulars behave poorly and not suffer any

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consequences for it is a choice that they're making.

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And I just think that it stops being what Star Trek is for at that

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point.

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And in, in series 3, we have America kind of going mad after 9-11

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and doing all sorts of really quite spectacularly bad things, and

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then you have enterprise along for the ride, kind of cheering them

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on.

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And I think that we'd be better off without a show that did that.

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And I think that that's the root of what Billingsley said in that

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interview.

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What was that from?

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Ah, it's Trek geeks, I think. is a really good interview because

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he's not afraid to just say what he thinks, is he?

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Yeah, he's out of the show now.

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In fact, he was asked to come back in Kurtzman Trek. and he said

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I'd rather not, thank you. which I think is incredible.

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He did come back for an episode of The Orful, didn't he?

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Did he?

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I think he might have.

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But he essentially says, like, he's very proud of what they did

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but essentially some of the creative decisions in the latter half

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enterprise he disagreed with, and he felt as if it was turning

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their back on what Trek should be about.

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Yeah, I mean, Trek is about sort of hopeful, positive future.

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You've got Battlestar Galactica where you get people doing real

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politic because they're in desperate situations.

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And that's fun to watch, but I don't think that series 3 is that

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much fun to watch.

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It is a little bit of a grind.

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It is.

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It's very, very serious.

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I think DS9 gets the light and dark.

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It kind of does the same thing, but it's a lot more entertaining

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to watch and the characters are just more fun and better to find.

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You say there's no consequences.

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I question that.

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I think there's there's often like personal consequences for the

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decisions they make and we've seen them agonising and certainly

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like in DS9 there were consequences to everything Cisco did down

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the line.

108
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Well, but there's no like, I don't know, what bureaucratic

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professional consequences, because very very often the federation

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just goes, well, go on then, do it, you know, like, yeah, we need

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a way out of this situation.

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Do your best.

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Yeah.

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Well, I certainly think that, you know, people objected to series

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one of discovery, but I think series 3 of Enterprise is actually

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properly, politically, really poor in a way that series one of

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discovery isn't, like I think, a reasonable reading of series one

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of discovery.

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It's very, very pro Star Trek ideals.

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And it puts them in a situation where they're pushed, but they

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hold.

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But you know what happens then when you lean in the other

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direction and you are constantly like affirming those Roddenberry

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ideals, is you end up with that subplot in Butter Connect, where

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you're having a whole ton of waffle and you just know where it's

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going to end up.

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You're like, wow, they ain't going to go and destroy them.

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They're going to make 1st contact.

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And I know they did something interesting with that and I know

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there was carrot stuff going on.

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But ultimately, the subplot is very predictable.

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We know where we're going.

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Sure, sure.

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But I think once we've decided that we're all bad asses and we're

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just going to sort of flout the rules and stuff, that that's also

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just a little bit tedious and just a tiny bit adolescent.

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I prefer, sorry, we're way off base there.

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But I prefer it.

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Who cares?

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You know, we do this all the time.

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I prefer it when the Roddenberry ideals are attacked, not via the

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regulars, but in something like Valiant in DS9, where they have

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that group of cadets that are very much like, we're starving, we

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can do anything, and then they think they can take on that

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dominion ship, and then they all are murdered at the end of the

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episode.

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And it's, it's really confronting and it's like, wow, this is what

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happens when you tell a bunch of kids that are the best of the

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best.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and that was, that's a lot more.

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But at this point in Enterprise, in season two, they're not even

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thinking on this level.

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They're not doing anything that interesting.

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They're not trying to be ambitious.

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They're knocking out one Star Trek episode of the week after

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another.

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And the hit rate is terrible.

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I said to you before this call. 2 episodes ago.

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We have precious cargo, which is considered one of the worst

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episodes of Star Trek, not even Enterprise.

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And in 2 episodes of time, we've got future tents, which you

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watched recently, which is a terrible bore.

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Like there's just, there's no drive, there's no energy.

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I don't think there's any love for what they're making. at the

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moment.

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It's just they're kind of making competent television.

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Sort of.

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Kind of.

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But, you know, like I like Star Trek when it is just the thing of

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the week and I think that's something that Strange New Worlds does

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incredibly well and that Star Trek the Next Generation. sometimes

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does well.

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And most of the time.

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They can do those episodes of the week with passion and with

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energy.

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And, you know, and, you know, I think Strange New Wells probably

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does that every week, you know.

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Oh, yeah.

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There's, yeah, I'm sure they're loving the fact that they're

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making Star Trek.

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This episode we're talking about today is Stigma, which we haven't

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even mentioned yet.

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They didn't even want to make this episode.

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They were contacted by a group and said, would you please raise

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awareness for, was it HIV or sexually transmitted diseases?

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That's what the sort of the parallel is in this episode.

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And instead of sort of saying, right, we're going to grab hold of

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this, we've been asked to make a statement.

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They knock out this yawn fest where there is no kind of emotion

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there's no anger in what they're talking about.

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There's no.

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I just don't understand the point of this at all.

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What are they trying to say in this episode?

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It is that thing where I think that I think they've taken it back

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a few 100 years so that we can have a predominantly white and

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predominantly human crew.

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They are not particularly interested in the politics of Star Trek

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and perhaps made a bit uncomfortable by it.

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And that's why in series 3.

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They kind of go, oh, well, bugger it, we're dropping it and we're

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just going to go full on kind of crazy right wing militaristic

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nonsense.

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And here they're being asked to do an issue episode, but they're

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so kind of tentative about it.

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And the weird thing is that the B plot is about them being

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tentative about it.

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The B plot fights against the A plot the entire time.

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And it's almost like they've got the B plot.

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They've got the most white bread kind of character on the show

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Tripp, who is sort of tremendously well acted and really fun to

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watch.

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Um, being confused that people are polygamous, even though it's

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like 2152 or something.

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It's like, it's so pathetic.

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But at the time, that was quite a brave thing to put out.

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I like the fact that they're, I do like the fact that they're just

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sort of bold faced about it and they just go for it, you know?

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I really love the big where flocks and his missus go, oh, humans

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you know, and laugh about him at the end.

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Which is really, really fun.

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I thought there was far more bravery in that B plot than there was

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in the A plot, which is...

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It's so weird because I just felt as if there were no emotional

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consequences for anybody at all and nobody was feeling anything.

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The consequences in this episode are all bureaucratic. all red

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tape.

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Will to poll have to leave enterprise.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And we know that she won't.

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So it doesn't really matter.

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The other thing too is that when HIV was a big crisis, like when

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it 1st became a thing, there was, there were some people who chose

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to talk about people who'd innocently court it.

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So if you caught it through um a blood transfusion or something

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like that, you'd caught it innocently, but if you caught it off a

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sexual partner, then you you were somehow to blame, right?

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And this episode just takes that frame on board and it attacks it

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both to Paul and Archer reject that frame in what I think is the

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best thing about the episode.

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But that frame is there.

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Well, is it a bit where Archer says, I'm not even going to go

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there.

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I don't want to ask her how she got it.

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Yeah, I like that.

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And Paul refuses to say.

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Even once it's clear, she refuses to say.

248
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But once we make sure we establish that she's an innocent victim

249
00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:42.539
of this condition, we can all just get on with our lives.

250
00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:47.580
And the Vulcan who caught it mind melding or whatever, he gets

251
00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:48.360
punished.

252
00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:52.740
And even though we kind of, we say stuff about how that's

253
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:53.279
terrible.

254
00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:55.980
That's still how it ends up.

255
00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.320
And I still think that that reinforces that way of framing the

256
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.980
issue rather than properly deconstructing it.

257
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.940
That way of dealing with the issue ends up being the predominant

258
00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:11.220
way of the episode ends up thinking about it.

259
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:15.539
And so I think it fails, and I think it fails pretty dismally.

260
00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:20.879
Channelling this through the Vulcans, who are, you know, famously

261
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:26.700
completely unemotional, just guts this of any kind of emotional

262
00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:27.120
work.

263
00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:29.940
Like, and I kept saying to you, think about far beyond the stars.

264
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.980
Think about how that grabbed hold of racism and showed a man who

265
00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:36.059
was being victimised.

266
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:40.500
And at the end, he has a complete nervous breakdown and he's on

267
00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:44.100
the floor and he's crying and I think it's the injustice of the

268
00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:49.139
situation and sort of the rawness in Avery Brooks's performance

269
00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:50.700
that makes that so powerful.

270
00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.340
I defy anyone to watch that and not be in tears.

271
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:54.899
I think well out one's watching this.

272
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:57.419
No, no, there's nothing here.

273
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:02.159
And the thing is that too, you have you have a black man who has

274
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.919
personally experienced racism in his lifetime.

275
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:09.720
And I can't remember who's writing far beyond the stars, but they

276
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:14.220
are writing something that Avery Brooks has to be willing to do.

277
00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:15.600
Well, he directs them.

278
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:17.519
Avery Brooks directs Fargo style.

279
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:21.059
So he has he's got input into it artistically.

280
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:26.639
You know, we know that that Birmingham, Braga and whoever's

281
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:28.440
writing this doesn't really give a shit about this.

282
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:33.960
And there's a kind of complete absence of representation of any of

283
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:36.299
the people for whom this issue is important.

284
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.779
And that's what you would never do in modern Star Trek.

285
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:43.679
You know, modern Star Trek doesn't bullshit around with allegories

286
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:44.580
about gay people.

287
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.620
It just has fucking gay people in it.

288
00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:55.019
And I think that this is a pretty miserable kind of 2nd best sort

289
00:14:55.019 --> 00:14:55.440
of thing.

290
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:58.980
I will say again, this was 20 years ago, and the landscape of TV

291
00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:00.360
20 years goes, what's different?

292
00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:03.779
And I think, you know, you're able to watch TV 20 years.

293
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.720
Of course there were, but it wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

294
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.820
It wasn't as accepted as it is today.

295
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.899
Um, just going very quickly back to far the other side.

296
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:16.980
The way that plays with you emotionally, the episode is written, so

297
00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:20.940
Benny Russell has these amazing highs, right, like his story is

298
00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:21.899
going to be published.

299
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.980
He's going to marry Casta Yates and then these massive crashes

300
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:29.100
where he gets beaten up in the street by the police officer and

301
00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:31.559
you're kind of, you're like literally taking on this insane

302
00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:32.639
emotional ride.

303
00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:34.620
By the end, you're fucking exhausted.

304
00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:39.720
But the point has been made, you know, that it's a terrible

305
00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:41.039
fucking thing to endure.

306
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:46.919
This whole episode is a flat, the monotone that everyone talks

307
00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:47.220
in.

308
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:51.600
And I'm just, where's the passion in this show, in this particular

309
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.720
episode, which is about something important?

310
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:58.860
Ah, just irritated me how dull this was.

311
00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:04.500
So I, I find the Vulcan thing inexplicable as well.

312
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:05.639
And I don't know what it is.

313
00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:10.559
It's like... writing about the people who did well in science

314
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.480
class, you know, they hated them.

315
00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:15.419
And it's so dumb.

316
00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:21.480
And it just makes me so happy that that's not how the Vulcans are

317
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.360
characterised in Kurtzman Trek at all.

318
00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:27.539
There's a lot of love for the Vulcans and a lot of understanding

319
00:16:27.539 --> 00:16:28.980
of them.

320
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:32.340
And think about a character like Tarina from last week.

321
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:35.279
Oh my god, like, in that one scene?

322
00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.100
She had more passion in her than this entire episode.

323
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.320
Yeah, and she's a lovely character.

324
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:41.100
She's fantastic.

325
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:44.100
Like at the end of this episode, the equivalent of the end of our

326
00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:47.039
Beyonce, is where that guy stands up and goes, well, I'm one of

327
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:51.059
the subset of this species. even that wording is so dreary.

328
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.000
I'm one of the subset of this species.

329
00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:56.820
He says it as if he's putting his hand up going, well, can I go to

330
00:16:56.820 --> 00:16:57.419
the loo, please?

331
00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:58.679
It's just nothing.

332
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.960
Well, actually, we should watch this thing because I'm just going

333
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.919
to sit here getting angry.

334
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:07.440
I just think I just think they should have approached this with

335
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.180
some anger, you know?

336
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:09.660
Yeah.

337
00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:10.859
And they don't.

338
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.140
They just don't appreciate with any emotion at all.

339
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.519
And so it just has no impact.

340
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:16.079
Yeah, they don't care.

341
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:17.099
So what was the point?

342
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.400
Well, it filled in 40?

343
00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:24.299
2 minutes and 52 seconds of runtime, I guess.

344
00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:25.619
Nice, true.

345
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:26.220
All right.

346
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.740
Probably sold some Toyotas or something.

347
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:30.480
Which I suppose it did make me angry.

348
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:31.740
It did make me feel something.

349
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.019
It just made me feel angry for what it wasn't doing.

350
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.180
Yeah, it mostly made me fell sleepy.

351
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:36.720
All right.

352
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.079
I'm going to count us in.

353
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.299
I'll put you awake every now and again then, all right?

354
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:43.140
All right.

355
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.059
Okay, here goes.

356
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:51.420
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

357
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.200
Off we go.

358
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.460
Fabulous establishing shot of enterprise from below.

359
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.259
Yeah.

360
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.160
Yeah.

361
00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:01.200
I don't know what I think of Enterprise.

362
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:02.640
Okay, this scene. are we doing?

363
00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:05.519
So this is setting up the problem.

364
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:09.059
So I don't even remember when Tapol had this mind meld, you know?

365
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.519
I'm assuming it was in an episode in series one.

366
00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:12.839
It was a year ago, they said.

367
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:18.000
Yeah, it was, and I looked it up and I can't remember, but it

368
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:18.599
was.

369
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.000
I meant to look at it, but then I couldn't be bothered.

370
00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:22.799
Well, she's poured into that uniform.

371
00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:25.200
She has to stand there like an action figure because she can't

372
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.460
actually move her arms, you know?

373
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.299
Yeah, well, so Jerry Ryan had the same problem, I think.

374
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:37.680
Um, This is a very shitty pre-credits thing.

375
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.700
It's really short and it's like you could die and it's kind of

376
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.460
like, oh, God, really, you've got a disease that we never heard

377
00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:46.619
about and that we'll never be mentioned again.

378
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:47.279
Is that right?

379
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:49.019
Will it ever be mentioned again?

380
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.519
She gets trillion B addiction.

381
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.839
It's season three.

382
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:53.880
Yeah, she starts taking the drugs, doesn't she?

383
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:55.740
And feeling the emotions and all of that.

384
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:55.980
Yeah.

385
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.859
Another thing, the thing they did to try and make her

386
00:18:58.859 --> 00:18:59.220
interesting.

387
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:02.759
Can I just say very quickly, right, during this type of music?

388
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.559
My other half was downstairs and caught the beginning of

389
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.259
Enterprise and he's like, oh, I'm going to watch the beginning

390
00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:10.920
just see what it's like.

391
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.700
And then it started and he went, no, is this the title music?

392
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.180
I was like, 0 god, I was reaching for the remote.

393
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.279
I couldn't.

394
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:22.680
I still sing.

395
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:25.920
I still literally sing every time the opening credits are on.

396
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:27.000
You know what's really bad?

397
00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:28.319
I think I got used to it now.

398
00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:31.019
I think, you know, I actually, I pre-empty.

399
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:35.099
I've got I've got the...

400
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:36.539
It's so great.

401
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:41.099
It's absolute dead core middle of the road crap.

402
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.240
And it really kind of suits this episode, this series.

403
00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:49.980
Like, absolutely...

404
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.920
You thought there was a bit of a visual interest here, but it just

405
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.880
doesn't really tell me anything about Enterprise until the last 5

406
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:57.180
seconds.

407
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:02.039
It's the culmination of a lot of white men striving to travel

408
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.960
places and I don't know.

409
00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:07.859
Like, it's like the history leading up to enterprise.

410
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.400
The previous shot is, um, what's his what's his face of ship

411
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:13.200
Zefron Cochrane's ship taking off.

412
00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:15.779
A nice shot there from underneath the enterprise.

413
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.400
Yeah, look, it's upside down.

414
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.180
The French of a planet.

415
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:18.900
They're travelling.

416
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.079
They've learned how the ship would go round a planet.

417
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:23.700
If we're in the southern hemisphere.

418
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.359
The ship would look upside down if we were looking at it.

419
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:30.720
Here's the character we were talking about earlier, who I think

420
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:31.680
can do no wrong.

421
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:33.000
Dr. Flux.

422
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:34.799
He's so wonderful.

423
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:36.900
Look at the way they sniff at each other ear.

424
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.200
I'm assuming it's something to do with pheromones.

425
00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:45.299
Yes, but I mean, why like Archer and Trip both look puzzled

426
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:48.059
because of their alien ways.

427
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.319
I mean, in space.

428
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:51.359
They see aliens all the time.

429
00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:53.640
Yeah, no, no.

430
00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:56.160
Wow, aliens say, sure they're weird.

431
00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.740
I mean, they look exactly the same as us except us.

432
00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:00.359
They're sniffing each other.

433
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:01.140
It's not like that.

434
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.059
It's just...

435
00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:04.079
My dogs do that.

436
00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:06.420
I just all the way through this episode.

437
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:11.460
I love flock's relaxed attitudes. as she's, you know, stroking him

438
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.640
and touching his leg and there's a bit where I think we're

439
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.400
supposed to think he's going to go crazy where she's got her hand

440
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.880
on his shoulder and he walks straight up to him and goes, right

441
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:21.660
wow, see you later.

442
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:29.579
I think because because Flux is wearing that sort of Nehru collar

443
00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:34.680
and the long sort of jacket thing, I think the 2 of them look like

444
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.819
oh, look, that's the CG augmented smile that Dr. Flux did in the

445
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:39.299
1st episode.

446
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:44.759
So when she smiles, she does the wider smile. hang on.

447
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:47.339
Okay, so now we've talked about this.

448
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.440
They can do so bad.

449
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.980
I think the scale of it looks quite good, the CGI.

450
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.460
But then they put in, they can't do people. people.

451
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.740
So you've got these sort of outdo that now.

452
00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:00.779
No, they're terrible.

453
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:02.579
And there's 2 of our regulars.

454
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.500
Like, 0 no, they're violent.

455
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.259
No, that's the, they got it wrong because it's literally they're

456
00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:07.680
wearing...

457
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.240
And surprise uniforms.

458
00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:10.559
Oh, you remember?

459
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.500
I think later on, there's two, they just use the same footage.

460
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.660
And yet when they go through the door, it's the 2 Vulcans.

461
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:16.980
They're suddenly Vulcans.

462
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.599
Yeah, look.

463
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:21.599
I mean, I think there's elements of the design that are good.

464
00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:23.640
I actually like the idea of this conference.

465
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:28.920
I like the fact that so the galaxy is a little bit like Earth in

466
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:32.400
the sense that it's Earth having sort of relationships among the

467
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:34.859
countries and stuff and one country has a big international

468
00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:37.380
conference and everyone goes to it.

469
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.460
And Earth isn't quite used to that yet because we've never had a

470
00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:45.299
warp ship before, but now we're going to this, like, there's

471
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:49.140
something about the premise of enterprise that appeals to me, and

472
00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:51.720
I can understand why they like it.

473
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.220
Like, it's just very early days.

474
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.440
It's us doing all this stuff for the 1st time.

475
00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:57.180
I don't think that had to be boring.

476
00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.779
I still think the premise is loading of problems, though, which we

477
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:01.619
have discussed before.

478
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.660
These medical conferences, right?

479
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:06.359
I need to make a joke about this all the time, that they're always

480
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.039
set on like sex planets and things like that.

481
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:11.220
She would be like, I'm off to rise, I'm off to, you know, another

482
00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:11.519
thing.

483
00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:13.200
And then every time we went off to one.

484
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:16.319
One, he was kidnapped and replaced by a Dominion duplicate, another

485
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:16.559
one.

486
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.920
He was stopped from going and kidnapped by section 31.

487
00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:21.660
Like they made one joke after another.

488
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.519
He never made it to one conference in the 7 years.

489
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:28.259
And you can see why because they're pretty boring.

490
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:35.400
Well, so the main old Vulcan guy, isn't he crawler from Star Trek

491
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.359
the next generation episode 1st contact, the conservative guy who

492
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.220
doesn't want to have contact with aliens?

493
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:42.359
I'm pretty sure.

494
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:44.279
He's definitely a that guy.

495
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:45.599
He's done Star Trek before.

496
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:50.160
All I know is he's given these sort of angry lines in this and he

497
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.059
just delivers them.

498
00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:54.660
Boringly, because he's a falcon, doesn't know how to do it.

499
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.440
Yeah.

500
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.160
I do like the actress playing Flux's wife, you know.

501
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:01.200
Yeah, I do too.

502
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:06.420
There's a couple of lines in a minute where she goes, right, you've

503
00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.500
got to insert it in there.

504
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:12.539
Okay. now you can pull it out. come closer to me.

505
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.880
Oh my god.

506
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:17.940
Oh, I was taking the neutron on the stream.

507
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.279
I was there with a notepad, right?

508
00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:21.059
Okay, I'll try that one.

509
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.940
Look at Triv Spicy.

510
00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:27.960
Oh, God.

511
00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:30.900
I don't know.

512
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:32.400
The thick ending of this opening.

513
00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:32.880
Here it is.

514
00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:35.099
I don't set the thick end into this opening.

515
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.500
We can pull it out now.

516
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.980
When a woman is being sexually voracious and a man is

517
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:41.579
uncomfortable.

518
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.240
I find it perfectly watchable When it's the other way around, I

519
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.339
find you really uncomfortable.

520
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:47.640
Yeah.

521
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:50.460
The...

522
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.359
There is something kind of sophomoric again about their attitude

523
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:55.019
to sex.

524
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:59.339
It is the usual 90s Star Trek thing about being kind of like

525
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:02.220
failing to be a grown-up about sex.

526
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.200
Everyone's a fucking moron about it.

527
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.160
And, you know, like this...

528
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:12.960
He's behaving like somebody of the day where polyamory wasn't

529
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.240
really something that was discussed very much.

530
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:18.059
So he's behaving. not behaving like someone from the future, where

531
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:19.740
this should probably be the norm by now.

532
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:21.900
I would have had more respect for this subplot.

533
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.599
If at the end it had gone, oh, right.

534
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:25.259
Yes, do it.

535
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:31.019
I reckon what I, how I wanted it to end was just the same script

536
00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:35.579
that we had, but then Tripp and Fisa look at one another across

537
00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:40.019
the thing and just wink to indicate, yes, they fucked and then, or

538
00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:43.079
maybe she winks and he kind of gets slightly embarrassed.

539
00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:44.519
But that would have been more fun.

540
00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:53.519
I think, you know, even it's, it's such American conservative

541
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:58.259
version of sexual morality, you know, and it's that, that sexual

542
00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:03.059
morality, that they're critiquing in the A-plot, but that, that

543
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:06.359
trip kind of exemplifies in the B plot.

544
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:10.619
And, you know, he's got his southern accent and he sort of blonde

545
00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:13.200
and sweet and calls everyone mam and stuff.

546
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:15.539
But like he's a grown-up.

547
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:19.380
He shouldn't be thrown by the fact that different people have

548
00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:23.880
different sexual ethics, but because that's true on earth as well

549
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:25.019
right?

550
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:27.000
It's so...

551
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:31.920
We're kind of saying that, you know, the heterosexual, you know

552
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.900
lifestyle, that's it.

553
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.180
That's all that's happening in the future, you know.

554
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:37.859
And that's right.

555
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.859
And so to the point where both um, both Archer and Tripp are kind

556
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:48.299
of bamboozled by the idea that someone might have 2 wives, even

557
00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:50.039
though that happens on earth.

558
00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:52.559
Like, it's so bizarre.

559
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:55.740
I can't speak for Brannenbraga and Rick Bourbon, because I do not

560
00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:58.740
know about their personal circumstances, but I'm almost willing to

561
00:26:58.740 --> 00:26:59.160
bet.

562
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:02.400
They are both heterosexual men power in this show.

563
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:04.079
And I think now in Star Trek.

564
00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:08.279
There's a far more diverse pool of lifestyles bringing their input

565
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:08.880
into the show.

566
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:12.720
And that's why we're a lot more comfortable with things being a

567
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.619
bit different, you know?

568
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:20.160
Yeah, and just with sex not being like they're so childish about

569
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:20.700
sex.

570
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.140
It's pathetic.

571
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.200
These are grown adults going on.

572
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:26.940
Was there a little sex on the TV at the time, though?

573
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:27.599
Was it?

574
00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:30.180
Well, no, but I mean no one's fucking in this either.

575
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.200
I mean, you know, you've got trip reacting to just being a bit

576
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:38.700
close to a lady while he's at work, you know, and not being able

577
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:42.420
to cope with someone hitting on him, even though he's a grown ass

578
00:27:42.420 --> 00:27:43.079
man.

579
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:44.759
It's so bizarre.

580
00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:47.519
But there's something as well, I know they're putting it in like a

581
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.920
science fiction context, but there's something so sanitised about

582
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.019
it being a mind milled as well.

583
00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:53.880
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

584
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:55.859
Yeah, this is limp, isn't it?

585
00:27:55.980 --> 00:28:00.299
It's the limpist HIV analogy you could possibly make.

586
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.279
That's right.

587
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:02.880
That's right.

588
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:06.900
It's, it's so extracted from anything.

589
00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:11.579
She should be absolutely on edge because they've clearly come here

590
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:14.460
for a purpose to expose the fact that she has this panass

591
00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:15.000
syndrome.

592
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.940
And yet she just sits there going, oh, you've come here for a

593
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:18.180
reason.

594
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:22.500
Like, oh, there's just, there's no life to it. really annoying.

595
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.140
You know, I don't think she's all that terrible.

596
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:29.099
I don't think she's, you know, Jerry Ryan, but she's okay.

597
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.220
And she certainly does get to do interesting things from time to

598
00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:32.759
time.

599
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:37.319
But this flat affect here is just killing this whole episode, I

600
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:37.559
think.

601
00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:38.819
Yeah.

602
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:43.440
She does look a bit furtive, you know, like she, she doesn't like

603
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.920
she's holding things back. very subtle, isn't it?

604
00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:49.619
I don't think they should be subtle in an issue show, you know?

605
00:28:49.859 --> 00:28:51.240
Yeah.

606
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.119
Is this the fellow in?

607
00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:56.220
What he's talking to her now. the one that's got it.

608
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:57.900
Yeah, he's the one that combine me.

609
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.380
And again, he should have been younger.

610
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.819
I think he's cast too old.

611
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.119
There's he's called the younger one, but I mean, that's compared

612
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:07.920
to Croller here or whatever he's called.

613
00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:12.240
Um, But it would have been nice if he was sort of younger and

614
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:12.720
prettier.

615
00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:14.099
If he was more visibly gay.

616
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.559
Like if there was just anything gay about this at all.

617
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.579
They were never going to go there, though, were they?

618
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.079
They were just never going to do it.

619
00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:26.700
I can't, you know, I cannot recall throughout the entirety of

620
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:32.400
Enterprise, if there was a single gay character or...

621
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.440
There isn't one in 90s track at all.

622
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.180
No, I don't agree with that.

623
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.440
I think they initially Garak was written as being a game act.

624
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:43.019
I think Jadzia Dax has moments of bite.

625
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:45.119
Obviously Kira and the alternative.

626
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:48.119
No, okay, it's tentative, but they are making some effort.

627
00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:49.079
Yeah.

628
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.799
Yeah, yeah.

629
00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:52.859
But in this show, I don't remember any at all.

630
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:53.700
Not at all.

631
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:54.059
No.

632
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.960
So I think, don't you know, those people that object to discovery

633
00:29:57.960 --> 00:29:59.819
and things like that and say it's woken all that?

634
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:01.859
It's this they're thinking of, isn't it?

635
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:04.920
thinking back to the good old days of enterprise when everyone was

636
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:05.220
straight.

637
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:10.920
Almost always when people complain about a TV show being woke, it

638
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:14.339
means that there are too many women and people of colour in it.

639
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:19.740
Like, I just think that that's what they're, they want to say. but

640
00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:21.839
concealing it behind the word woke.

641
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:26.039
In order to make the idea that you might have women in leading

642
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.640
roles in shows, you know, that's obviously ridiculous.

643
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:31.079
Why would you do that?

644
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.299
It's just being woke.

645
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.839
And especially discovery is how normalised it all is.

646
00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:39.720
It's just not commented on half the time, where that lovely scene

647
00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:44.700
in, but to connect with the 2 kids, what I call gray and Adira, and

648
00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:46.980
then the 2 adults, Stamets and Colba.

649
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.500
And they're like this big gay family.

650
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:51.900
But that's never acknowledged.

651
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:53.640
They're just a family, you know.

652
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.400
Whereas if DS9 is going to do a gay episode, they have to do

653
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.000
rejoined and make it this massive thing, you know, that 2 women

654
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.980
are...

655
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:04.680
Yeah, like 2 hot women kissing on television, you know.

656
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.779
I was directed by Avery Brooks as well, you know.

657
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.299
Issue show.

658
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:09.900
Right, come on.

659
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:11.700
Avery, there you go.

660
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:13.079
Oh, this is that scene.

661
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:15.420
This is that scene where she's literally pouring at him and then

662
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.059
flocks just sort of goes, well, have fun, guys.

663
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:19.619
See you later.

664
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:28.319
His face later, though, when Tripp awkwardly says to me, you know

665
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.519
your wife's coming on to me.

666
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.680
And he's like, yes, did you have her?

667
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:33.480
Did you have a nice rose bath with us?

668
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:35.339
I love all of that.

669
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:39.900
Well, the thing is, like I started saying this before, what he's

670
00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.160
wearing and what she's wearing.

671
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:43.079
I think they look like swingers.

672
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:50.339
Like, I think it's like they want to get trip drunk and like take

673
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:52.440
him back to their quarters and fuck him.

674
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.200
And he's kind of reacting like that as well.

675
00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:58.500
And I actually think that that's kind of adorable and almost

676
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:00.240
certainly unintentional.

677
00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:03.660
Maybe except on Billingsley's part.

678
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.339
Absolutely unintentional.

679
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:06.900
I think, you know what?

680
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:09.359
Had they just had the nerve to be, Oh yeah, and I've got 5

681
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:12.359
husbands as well, for flocks to say that. you know, that would

682
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:12.720
have been.

683
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:16.920
Okay, this is a bit where Archer, instead of saying, you know, to

684
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:17.819
Paul, are you sick?

685
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.440
Do you have a disease?

686
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:22.140
He goes, I've been politically embarrassed by the Vulcans again.

687
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.859
God damn you.

688
00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:23.640
Yeah.

689
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.079
I just thought, he is awful.

690
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:32.700
It just gave me horrible flashbacks to the scenes in cogenitor.

691
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:34.440
Oh, Jenna over the yells at Trip.

692
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.819
Not both of them.

693
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.700
He yells at him twice and I think they're disgusting.

694
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:40.140
Nathan, he was looking out of that window.

695
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

696
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:43.019
Yeah.

697
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:44.880
Oh, he's such an asshole, really.

698
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.559
He really is.

699
00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:51.240
And so I'm actually surprised he does do better in this episode

700
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:53.819
than I expected.

701
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:55.799
And the one thing that I think is good.

702
00:32:55.859 --> 00:32:59.519
Like I said at the beginning of this, that this accepts the frame

703
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:02.579
that there are innocent and guilty people who have Panar

704
00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:03.240
syndrome.

705
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:09.660
Uh, but Tapol absolutely refuses to say, and just is prepared to

706
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:12.720
lose her job because she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to

707
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:19.920
support that, that frame, and, and he goes along with her, you

708
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.220
know, he doesn't force her, he doesn't do his usual sort of stuff

709
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:26.039
about the mission and being a massive brick and stuff like that.

710
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:28.920
He just kind of lets her do it.

711
00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:31.380
And I, I like that.

712
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:32.339
I think.

713
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:35.640
But at the end, you know, when they've succeeded and she can stay

714
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:36.720
on the ship and all of that.

715
00:33:36.779 --> 00:33:38.220
You think, all right, they have a moment.

716
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.319
He just goes, well, I didn't want to lose you.

717
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:41.460
You know what I'm saying?

718
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.779
God's sake.

719
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.220
Yeah, that's right.

720
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:45.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:48.839
Oh, we don't learn anything about the Vulcans.

722
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.980
Like, why do they have this?

723
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.380
You know, like they there's nothing about it.

724
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.599
You know, they're prejudiced.

725
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:55.920
There's something about diversity.

726
00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:58.319
Does that's the best bit.

727
00:33:58.319 --> 00:33:59.339
We'll come to it later.

728
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:03.299
But when Archer gets up and has a thing about how we had solved

729
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:08.699
all our diversity problems, you know, a 100 years ago, even though

730
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:12.239
there's only 2 aliens on this ship of 150 people and basically

731
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.699
everyone except Travis is wise.

732
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:17.400
That's another reason why this is the most boring Star Trek

733
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:19.320
because the alien characters were always the most interesting.

734
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.480
I think back to the original series, right?

735
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:23.519
Talking about like the passion in the show.

736
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:25.440
Like, we've taken that piss out of the fact that the original

737
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:28.500
series can be a bit hammy and melodramatic and all that, you

738
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:28.679
know?

739
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:30.360
I'd take that over this.

740
00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:31.980
It had something to it.

741
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.280
When did Star Trek become so fucking castrated?

742
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:36.599
Yeah.

743
00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:38.820
Well, I mean, it was sort of always a bit boring.

744
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.300
Like the big joke about Star Trek the Next Generation was that it

745
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:46.079
was people just giving long speeches to each other.

746
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.179
And, you know, both of us have found ways of enjoying that, I

747
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:51.480
think.

748
00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:54.599
And the show has done that particular thing very well.

749
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.599
But here the speeches aren't all that good either.

750
00:34:57.659 --> 00:35:00.599
You know, like, it's all just, like, nothing.

751
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:02.460
The issue shows on 90s track.

752
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:03.960
They go one of 2 ways, don't they?

753
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:06.480
Like, I was comparing this last, I was watching it too.

754
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:09.119
There's another, there's a DS9 episode called Sanctuary where a

755
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:13.139
load of immigrants come through the wormhole. and they fill the

756
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:16.079
station full of these people and they've got horrible flaky skin

757
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.719
that goes everywhere and everyone's being terribly racist about

758
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:22.619
them and Kira's trying to rehome them on one of the Bajoran moons

759
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:23.219
to give them.

760
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.780
But the Bajorans don't want them.

761
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:27.599
And the idea is, is that the Bajorans are behaving just like the

762
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.039
Cardassians and they're turning away.

763
00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:35.159
Like, and it's a lot of people talking in rooms, but it's Kira

764
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:36.719
again, realising she's on the other side.

765
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.440
That's interesting.

766
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:41.340
There's a mother and son relationship where the son goes off and

767
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:42.780
tries to do a terrorist act.

768
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.340
That's got a bit of emotion to it.

769
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.599
And it's just, it is framed like this, but it is, it's just got

770
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:50.639
something tangible about it.

771
00:35:50.699 --> 00:35:52.739
Whereas this.

772
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.840
I mean, this is even worse than that dreadful bisexuality one on

773
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.559
Next Generation.

774
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:00.840
You know, with Beverly Fresher.

775
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.179
Oh, yeah.

776
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:03.780
The host.

777
00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:04.679
The host.

778
00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:09.300
You know, where when the host, when the worm goes into Riker, she's

779
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:10.619
like, oh, well, I'm willing to fuck you.

780
00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:15.179
And then when the world goes into... when it goes into a woman, uh

781
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:18.000
gets a bit fad and stares, you know, robotically into the camera

782
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:21.480
and goes, well, we're not ready for bisexuality at this point, but

783
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:22.079
maybe in the future.

784
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:29.159
We've never even heard of it in 2489 or whatever it is, for God's

785
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:29.340
sake.

786
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:34.980
I'm just not sure Permanent Braggart. have the cojones to explore

787
00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:37.739
any of this stuff. in an interesting way.

788
00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:45.059
I think they're fundamentally out of sympathy with the premise of

789
00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:45.780
Star Trek.

790
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.579
Like, they're happy for it to be space people doing things and

791
00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:53.460
that's a massive thing about Star Trek that we love.

792
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.940
That's why I can still derive some enjoyment from this and why I

793
00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:57.900
still care about it.

794
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:02.400
But I don't think they're into the politics of it at all.

795
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.619
And I think that that's why they took it back.

796
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:10.739
Um, so that they could be a sort of pre-diversity version of the

797
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:12.000
galaxy, you know.

798
00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:18.900
What about, um, what about Hoshi and, uh, or, you know, all the

799
00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:19.860
other regulars in this?

800
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.139
They get one scene apiece, don't they, in this?

801
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:22.739
Yeah.

802
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.739
One of them's been playing something with melons or something

803
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:26.219
isn't they?

804
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:30.900
Yeah, so Travis plays the Miles O'Brien on Star Trek, the next

805
00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:34.679
generation role of just sitting there talking about some sporting

806
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.860
thing that's caused him to injure himself while the doctor fusses

807
00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:38.219
over it.

808
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:42.000
Do see his very impressive washboard app, so don't we?

809
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:43.559
No, Travis is a good looking man.

810
00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:44.820
I don't object to that.

811
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:49.079
Hoshi is used because Tripp tries to keep her at the dinner table

812
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:50.519
when Flux's wife comes along.

813
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:52.800
And she's like, no, I've got to go.

814
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.139
And then and then she realises there's something going on it and

815
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:56.639
she's out of there very fast, Hoshi.

816
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:02.760
But it's it's, that's the most I've seen Hoshi do in an episode of

817
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:03.599
Enterprise.

818
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:05.340
Like, really?

819
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.079
We've done 4 or five.

820
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:09.000
Yeah, she's hardly been in them.

821
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:13.500
She gets the old episode where she's spotlighted, but really she

822
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:14.219
doesn't do a lot.

823
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:17.699
It's the original series thing again of the 3 core characters

824
00:38:17.699 --> 00:38:18.119
isn't it?

825
00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:19.380
Yeah.

826
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:19.920
Yeah.

827
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:20.820
Yeah.

828
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.079
What's happening here?

829
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:25.139
To Paul's looking a bit perturbed, staring at a screen, you know?

830
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.679
She's looking at things on the internet. you can say.

831
00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:32.280
She's probably on, you know, she's on one of those medical

832
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.260
websites that tells you you have cancer.

833
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:35.820
I reckon that's it.

834
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.480
There's a bit in a minute, right?

835
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.840
Where he goes down to the medical conference and he goes, right

836
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:46.860
you know, I'm invoking this law that we're going to have a hearing

837
00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:48.659
about this thing, right?

838
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:52.800
And I don't think archers ever look so pathetic and castrated when

839
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:54.780
the guy just goes, all right, we'll have it.

840
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:56.039
And then he just walks into the next room.

841
00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:58.920
The door shuts on Archer and he's standing there going, yeah, we're

842
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.059
going to have it or something.

843
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.699
It just looks so pathetic standing there.

844
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:06.420
And I was like, this guy just, it's weird because it's Scott

845
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.559
Bacular and he should be amazing.

846
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:11.219
It just doesn't have the presence of someone like Avery Brooks or

847
00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:15.840
Kate Mulgrew or something has gone fundamentally wrong with how

848
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.159
they have characterised Archer and I can't quite put my finger on

849
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:21.780
what it is because he's a great actor.

850
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.980
He's a terrific actor.

851
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.840
Yeah, I agree.

852
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:27.900
It is it's baffling how unlikeable they make him.

853
00:39:28.019 --> 00:39:32.340
And, you know, he's just fundamentally charming bacular, I think.

854
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.079
And I don't know.

855
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:35.340
I just can't believe it.

856
00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:40.260
This made me laugh this, this, um... the photo blow up.

857
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.179
It's New York in the background, isn't it?

858
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.480
But it's like it doesn't read like they're in a city.

859
00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:48.960
It reads like someone has blown up a photo and pasted it on the

860
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:49.139
wall.

861
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:52.380
That's because that is exactly what they have done.

862
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.840
But you know what this looks like?

863
00:39:54.900 --> 00:39:59.340
I've got some old open university videos of BBC Shakespeare

864
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:01.920
productions, where, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

865
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:03.119
columns and that.

866
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:06.420
You know, it all looks very, very, uh, too big. them very well.

867
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

868
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.380
Well, this looks like with a bloody Star Trek budget.

869
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:13.139
Outrageous, isn't it?

870
00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:17.280
There are times when I watch these 90s episodes and more and more

871
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.280
now as we're doing this thing together. where I'm like, all right

872
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:21.900
Kurtzman Tregg does have the edge.

873
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:22.260
Yeah.

874
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.260
It's like he's the gay Vulcan.

875
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:29.820
He's been...

876
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:30.840
No, he's not gay.

877
00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:34.320
I mean, there's nothing there's nothing about him at all, is it?

878
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.199
No, no.

879
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.480
I thought he was going to like my Mel with her at this point and I

880
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:40.739
could do this, you know, then.

881
00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:44.940
Yeah, no, but, you know, she doesn't, she's an innocent.

882
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.940
She's an innocent person who has banana syndrome.

883
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.800
Like, what kind of interesting twist or turn could possibly happen

884
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:53.820
in this story?

885
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.960
It's ripped away from the enterprise and publicly humiliated.

886
00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:59.159
No, that's never going to happen.

887
00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:02.039
We're never going to hear about this man ever again.

888
00:41:02.099 --> 00:41:03.719
So who cares about him?

889
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:09.179
You know, they're going to upturn Vulcan society and expose this

890
00:41:09.179 --> 00:41:09.360
thing.

891
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.920
No, that's never good.

892
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:13.199
We don't even learn anything about that. either.

893
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:14.579
We don't learn anything about it.

894
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.820
Like, or like no one learns anything.

895
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:22.260
Or any detail about these people that have the ability to do it.

896
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:26.460
Like, are they, are they having massive mind-meld orgies or

897
00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:26.760
something?

898
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:28.380
Like, what do they object to?

899
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:28.980
What is the problem?

900
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:31.019
Yeah, we don't know.

901
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:32.219
Well, they do say.

902
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.260
No, they say, that because...

903
00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:35.699
It's an American society.

904
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:43.739
No, the expression of emotion is regulated in Vulcan society.

905
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:48.059
And do you remember the thing where to bring and Spock were

906
00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:50.519
kissing in the restaurant in the 1st episode of Strange New

907
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:51.300
Worlds.

908
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.619
And the waiter came up and said, I think you'd better take this

909
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:56.280
somewhere else.

910
00:41:56.340 --> 00:41:59.099
And Dupring says, yeah, let's do that.

911
00:41:59.099 --> 00:42:01.559
I knew to point out that that was a restaurant. thought that was

912
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:02.099
their bedroom.

913
00:42:02.820 --> 00:42:05.519
They were getting so tasty with each other.

914
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:07.679
I'd rather have that in the mess, though, you know?

915
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:11.940
So yeah, so it's about the regulation of emotion and these people

916
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:14.699
are sharing emotions with each other whereas emotions should be

917
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:15.840
concealed or controlled.

918
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:22.199
And so that is kind of a thing that sort of Vulcanish and makes

919
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:25.139
sense, but it doesn't teach us anything about them.

920
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.199
We don't, you know, nothing comes of this.

921
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:31.500
And I just think it's ridiculous making the Falcans such

922
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.219
assholes.

923
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:35.760
They're really racist in this as well, in enterprise.

924
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:36.599
They really dreadful.

925
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:40.260
Do you remember that episode of TNG violations when that fella

926
00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:43.679
comes onto the ship and he's mind raping people?

927
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:47.159
And it's quite for the time.

928
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:53.039
No, no, but it's quite confronting for the time because Troy is

929
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:54.539
traumatised by what she goes through.

930
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:59.280
And the dream sequences that they do are quite adult and they're

931
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:00.719
filmed in quite an uncomfortable way.

932
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:01.800
Well, because they're about rape.

933
00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:05.699
Like one of them, what happens to Deanna is she dreams that he's

934
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:08.219
forcing herself himself on her.

935
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.559
So I think it probably tips over the line a bit, but at least it's

936
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:14.340
trying.

937
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:15.420
Do you know what I mean?

938
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:16.320
At least it's doing something.

939
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:18.059
It makes you feel something when you watch it.

940
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:20.820
It makes you feel uncomfortable. yeah Yeah.

941
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.119
I think that's the worst thing I feel uncomfortable.

942
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:28.500
That's the worst thing of all is I just don't care.

943
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.260
And I am invested in this topic.

944
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.239
My ex-partner had HIV.

945
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:37.440
And I remember I showed him this after I watched this and I didn't

946
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:38.940
say what it was about.

947
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:42.119
And at the end, I said what it was about and he went, was it?

948
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:46.019
Like, he didn't even get it. fucking HIV?

949
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:48.719
For God's sake, you know, like...

950
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:49.500
No.

951
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:50.639
It's, yeah.

952
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:55.800
Yeah, sorry, I just talked all over you trying to mention that uh

953
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:57.239
Fox's wife was...

954
00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:01.440
Oh, just, yeah, did they, like, playing Footsie under the table

955
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:07.199
again, in a sort of just dismally kind of adolescent conception of

956
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.400
how adults behave.

957
00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:12.900
Tripping Malcolm Reed now in the gym talking about how desperately

958
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:14.099
uncomfortable this all is.

959
00:44:14.219 --> 00:44:16.199
Could this be any more heterosexual this show?

960
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:16.739
Honestly.

961
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.480
Yeah, what is this gym?

962
00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:19.679
Jesus Christ.

963
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:21.480
And you are right.

964
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:24.000
Like, these sets are dull, aren't they?

965
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:29.400
Like, I, I, even compared to like how they lie, DSI and Voyager.

966
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:31.980
And they came before this.

967
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:34.440
Yeah, it's the even lighting.

968
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:38.940
I actually think the idea that it looks like a submarine is

969
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:44.519
actually a pretty good idea because the Enterprise looks like a

970
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.579
cruise ship or something like that in Star Trek, the Next

971
00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:50.699
Generation, and it's very plush and very comfortable, and they

972
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:53.280
want to take it back to its roots, make it feel like we're in

973
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:53.639
space.

974
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.840
But the lighting is so evil.

975
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.059
It's all coming from above again, isn't it?

976
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:02.219
Rather than coming out.

977
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.940
That's right And so I don't mind the details of the sets, but I

978
00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:06.900
hate the lighting.

979
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:07.380
I think.

980
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.940
What I like about these sets is how it feels like they could fall

981
00:45:11.940 --> 00:45:13.019
apart any minute.

982
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:13.980
So when they're attacked.

983
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:17.760
And I really like the engineering set because they have to climb

984
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.079
all over it to get things done.

985
00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:20.639
So there's a lot of movement going on.

986
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:21.659
And like there's one.

987
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:24.300
I don't know if you've reached there. one in series 3 where

988
00:45:24.300 --> 00:45:25.019
they're on the bridge.

989
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:27.719
They being attacked by the Zindi left, right, and centre, and the

990
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.559
whole bloody light from the top of the set comes crashing down and

991
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:33.059
Tripp has to get out of the way pretty quick.

992
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:38.280
It feels it feels a bit unstable, you know, and any minute it

993
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.739
could fall apart of the seams because they are new to this, aren't

994
00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:40.920
they?

995
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:42.539
Yeah, it's very cool.

996
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.300
I think there would have been a way of doing it, a way of doing it

997
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:47.579
that made it look better. that made it look more like a

998
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:48.119
submarine.

999
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:50.039
Reflective services, for instance.

1000
00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:53.820
You know, make everything look like it was made out of metal

1001
00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:57.840
instead of, you know, like a bloody t-shirt printed.

1002
00:45:57.900 --> 00:46:00.719
More reflective services written on it, all right?

1003
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:05.519
Does this determine your enjoyment of TV?

1004
00:46:05.579 --> 00:46:07.260
It really does.

1005
00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:12.119
I've only discovered doing this podcast how much it matters and

1006
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:16.380
this is just, this is so boring for that reason.

1007
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.539
I haven't had a look on that.

1008
00:46:18.659 --> 00:46:19.500
Ralph, you know.

1009
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:23.400
I'd love to know what the actors thought. about this script.

1010
00:46:23.579 --> 00:46:24.960
Yeah.

1011
00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:29.639
Yeah, just imagine themselves saying, can you imagine them saying

1012
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:34.559
in, you know, like an oppressed thing, oh, you know, we were very

1013
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:39.599
proud to be tackling this thorny issue 20 years late or whatever

1014
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:40.739
15 years too late.

1015
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.519
You know, like, and we think we've been very brave and stuff like

1016
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:44.820
that.

1017
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.280
I just think I would have wanted to smack them all.

1018
00:46:47.579 --> 00:46:51.360
They probably are very proud about what I did here.

1019
00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:55.199
We tossed them a bone. you know, we did we did our bit.

1020
00:46:55.260 --> 00:47:00.000
Yeah, but this, like, I thought that that was, to Paul was really

1021
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:01.079
good there.

1022
00:47:01.139 --> 00:47:04.739
And that's the sort of thing that you might expect Archer to kind

1023
00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:06.840
of push back against and he doesn't.

1024
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:10.320
So that speech where she says, I'm not telling them how I got it

1025
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:14.760
because it doesn't matter because there aren't good and bad people

1026
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.199
with Panar syndrome.

1027
00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:17.519
It's just a disease.

1028
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:25.800
And, and, you know, um, she's doing the right thing and he, he

1029
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:29.460
kind of looks, I don't know what I'm going to do, but he, he backs

1030
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:33.000
off. he decides to rising and go down and it's interesting because

1031
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:36.420
he's the only one that's behaving emotionally in this.

1032
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:38.820
He's quite angry that he went and bashed on the door and said, get

1033
00:47:38.820 --> 00:47:40.739
out of here, you know, we're going to have a hearing, blah, blah

1034
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:41.099
blah.

1035
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.599
But we hate him so much.

1036
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:44.400
We don't really care that he's angry.

1037
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.039
Yeah.

1038
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:51.179
Yeah.

1039
00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:53.159
It's a bit miserable.

1040
00:47:53.219 --> 00:47:59.880
The other thing that I think was interesting was the, um, them

1041
00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:03.119
saying that they weren't putting much effort into researching

1042
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:10.139
Panar syndrome because it was only bad people who got it.

1043
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:12.659
And I thought that that was interesting.

1044
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:17.880
And I don't know what the rhetoric was around that or how people

1045
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:18.599
felt at the time.

1046
00:48:18.659 --> 00:48:19.619
I can't remember at all.

1047
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:23.760
And obviously we're in a sort of weird situation where there are

1048
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:29.219
all kinds of treatments and things now that are pretty effective.

1049
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:32.099
You watched It's a Sin, didn't you?

1050
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.900
Russell Davis is a sin.

1051
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:37.559
Now, I think there's there's a 102nd scene.

1052
00:48:37.619 --> 00:48:43.920
Yeah, that encapsulates the horror of HIV better than 40 minutes

1053
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:44.820
of enterprise here.

1054
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:48.780
That's the bit where Neil Patrick Harris's character dies and then

1055
00:48:48.780 --> 00:48:52.619
we cut to them rushing into the room, changing the bed, turning

1056
00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:53.280
the mattress.

1057
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:55.260
It's like, right, he's dead gone next.

1058
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1059
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:00.900
Or just the stuff about people being locked in rooms and being

1060
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:01.800
given their food.

1061
00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:03.000
Do you know what I mean?

1062
00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:05.820
Like having to stay away from the door and the way that people

1063
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:07.500
were isolated and stuff like that.

1064
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:11.880
And like, it's enough to provoke an angry response in you.

1065
00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:12.179
Yeah?

1066
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:13.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1067
00:49:13.139 --> 00:49:13.739
What's this?

1068
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:17.219
You know, they might transfer someone to so that they're not on

1069
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:18.360
our TV show anymore.

1070
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:21.659
It's not the stakes are not that high.

1071
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:23.219
Old, as is absolute.

1072
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.300
There we go.

1073
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:26.400
My interest has perked up a little bit.

1074
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:32.639
He must, they must have fell so like these were the most thankless

1075
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.840
roles they've ever had.

1076
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.960
Yeah, it's miserable, isn't it?

1077
00:49:37.019 --> 00:49:41.460
I mean, it is just like, even the, the, the sort of the most

1078
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:45.119
neglected character on, say, Voyager, I know, Chakotay, Harry Kim

1079
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.639
they all had a couple of episodes a year where they came out.

1080
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:51.840
I think there's one episode that he gets in the four-year run

1081
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.099
that's about his character.

1082
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:56.699
It's not great.

1083
00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:58.800
No, it's miserable.

1084
00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:01.139
And Hoshi gets more, doesn't she?

1085
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:03.239
I'm sure I've seen like one a year, I think.

1086
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:04.800
If that, yeah.

1087
00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:09.659
She, you know, Bushy gets the wonderful uh 2 part Mirror Universe

1088
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:12.480
episode where she's the Giorgio character, the evil bitch just

1089
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.000
trying to take over and she succeeds as well.

1090
00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:16.079
I think she kills half the crew.

1091
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:18.780
That sounds really good.

1092
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:19.739
It's really good.

1093
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.320
This is so TV, isn't it right?

1094
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:24.360
So, Tripp wants to speak to the doctor.

1095
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:26.159
It's not about something medical.

1096
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:28.980
It's about how his wife wants to fuck him.

1097
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:35.159
And Travis has to leave the sick bay because we've decided we're

1098
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:36.360
having this scene in this set.

1099
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:40.019
Normally he would say, Travis, just wait there a second.

1100
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.679
I'll go out here in the corridor and have this conversation.

1101
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.599
You have to wait this out before.

1102
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:49.079
Oh, it was...

1103
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:49.559
Did you remember?

1104
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:53.760
Jake and Nog and Cisco having dinner when Marsok came in.

1105
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.360
Everyone has to leave because we're talking to Martok in this

1106
00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:57.599
set.

1107
00:50:57.780 --> 00:51:01.199
We're not lighting the corridor for this.

1108
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:04.019
We should have hung a lantern.

1109
00:51:04.019 --> 00:51:05.400
All right, we'll go then, shall we?

1110
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:07.199
Okay, that's right.

1111
00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.360
I'm injured, but I'll go, will I?

1112
00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:12.239
I'll take these abs out of here straight away.

1113
00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:15.059
And even that was like, you know, stay away from those creatures.

1114
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.099
You know, I was just like, oh, it's mine.

1115
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:18.119
Yeah.

1116
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:24.539
And the detail about it was that he didn't know whether they were

1117
00:51:24.539 --> 00:51:25.440
melons or not.

1118
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:27.059
Like we play this game.

1119
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:28.139
We throw melons.

1120
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:31.260
I guess they're melons and I thought, all right, that's a thing.

1121
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.780
Did you watch that episode towards the end of the season?

1122
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:37.139
I mean, I think it's a fairly solid little run at the end of this

1123
00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:38.820
season as they head into three.

1124
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:42.059
But there's one really terrible episode where Tapal is suffering

1125
00:51:42.059 --> 00:51:44.099
from, what's it called?

1126
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:46.980
The, when they get really horny, the Vulcans.

1127
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:48.780
Oh, upon far.

1128
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:50.460
Yeah, Bonfire.

1129
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.980
And she's literally going around the ship, literally, and the

1130
00:51:52.980 --> 00:51:55.260
whole thing's framed like horror movie that she's going around

1131
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:56.099
trying to fuck everybody.

1132
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:59.940
And it's just like, I'm not sure what this show's trying to say

1133
00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:01.800
about sexuality at all, you know?

1134
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.780
We wear women's of plough meek soup at people and stuff like

1135
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:07.019
that.

1136
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:08.400
Married with this episode.

1137
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:12.239
It seems to be saying, you know, men, beware women that are horny

1138
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:13.739
you know, you're being a lot of trouble.

1139
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:15.840
It's so pathetic.

1140
00:52:15.900 --> 00:52:17.519
Like, be a grown up.

1141
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:21.539
And I love his reaction.

1142
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:23.340
I love the way the doctor reacts.

1143
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:26.280
It's just like, for God's sake, she's a great lady.

1144
00:52:26.340 --> 00:52:27.360
Just have sex with her.

1145
00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:28.320
Don't be such a baby.

1146
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:37.320
I just, I just think uh, sexuality and not is is something that we

1147
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:41.219
will always come back to and always cringe just a little bit.

1148
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:43.980
Yeah, I think every now and again.

1149
00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:48.059
Every now and again, like Cisco Cassidy will be like, okay, this

1150
00:52:48.059 --> 00:52:50.820
feels like a real relationship, you know, but it's still in

1151
00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:51.119
between.

1152
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:53.820
Yeah, that might be the only one.

1153
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.840
Oh, even this, but here she goes, oh, yeah, yeah, no, they're

1154
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:59.159
never going to agree to a conference.

1155
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:00.840
Oh, well, I've already arranged it.

1156
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:03.179
It's like, oh, what's the fucking point of that?

1157
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:03.840
dialogue.

1158
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:10.619
They are envied.

1159
00:53:10.619 --> 00:53:12.840
And it's just like she's packing a bag.

1160
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:14.880
It's so boring.

1161
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:19.199
Do you remember Beverly paying her bag at the beginning of

1162
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:22.559
suspicions and she's got like a tennis racket and shit and it's

1163
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:24.719
like, she's got fun luggage to pack.

1164
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:25.739
Do you remember?

1165
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:31.079
When Kira was reassigned in the 2nd episode of series two, DS9, and

1166
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:33.840
everyone comes to visit and they did a whole French fast scene

1167
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:35.400
where she's like, I do care.

1168
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:36.000
No, they haven't.

1169
00:53:36.059 --> 00:53:36.659
No, they didn't.

1170
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:38.760
She's talking to about 10 people. you know?

1171
00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:39.960
I hate to say it again.

1172
00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:41.099
There's an exception to the rule.

1173
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:42.960
Yeah.

1174
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:44.519
Well, don't worry.

1175
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:47.219
DS9 had plenty of scenes where people were packing up to go and

1176
00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:49.320
then someone walked in and went, oh, don't worry, I'll sort with

1177
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:49.500
it.

1178
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:49.800
You know?

1179
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:54.059
Oh, it's the same bloody CGI shot.

1180
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:55.559
This CGI shot.

1181
00:53:55.619 --> 00:53:59.280
I reckon there's an episode of Lower Deck series 2 called An

1182
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:03.300
Embarrassment of Duplers, which is set on this old space station

1183
00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:07.380
and I reckon they use design cues from this episode on that space

1184
00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:11.579
station, and if I was a more dedicated podcaster, I would have

1185
00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:12.539
looked it up.

1186
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.380
But I think that this absolutely reminded me of that.

1187
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:21.239
It's where they go for the captains, all the captains, uh, of all

1188
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:24.119
the ships that aren't California class get to all go to a big

1189
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:24.420
party.

1190
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:29.940
That's all of them at this point, I'm afraid.

1191
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:33.059
We've left Enterprise now, right?

1192
00:54:33.119 --> 00:54:35.940
So I just want to ask you, what's the predominant colours in these

1193
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:38.639
fascinating sets on the medical conference?

1194
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:40.679
Brown.

1195
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.320
It's really boring.

1196
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.019
Yes, the predominant colours of all the costumes here.

1197
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:47.579
Yeah, yeah.

1198
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:50.400
Yeah, everyone's doing drabber to look at.

1199
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:53.039
Yeah, it really is, isn't it?

1200
00:54:53.099 --> 00:54:54.059
It's the future.

1201
00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:55.260
It should be exciting.

1202
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:58.019
Like, why don't they have, it's so boring.

1203
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:02.039
Like there's some kind of hippie details in the background with a

1204
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:02.760
candles and shit.

1205
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.500
I'm going to go back to...

1206
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:05.940
Remember how colourful everything was?

1207
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:09.539
Even Spot's brain, we went to all those sets that were pink and

1208
00:55:09.539 --> 00:55:12.659
you know, crazy had crazy gels up the walls and things.

1209
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.960
When did Star Trek get so boring looking?

1210
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:22.320
I think that, I mean, I think TNG reacts against the, the kind of

1211
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:30.119
um, technicolour, you know, primary colour thing of, of original

1212
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.739
Star Trek.

1213
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:34.800
And everything ends up looking a bit worse.

1214
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:37.739
Everything ends up really beige and stuff.

1215
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.820
Even the 1st Star Trek movie is all a bit brown, isn't it?

1216
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:43.860
Like the sets are just not that great.

1217
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.940
I don't know.

1218
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:45.780
But like, do you remember?

1219
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:46.440
I don't know.

1220
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:50.219
He's the gay Vulcan making a speech, which is shocking croller

1221
00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:50.579
over here.

1222
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:56.940
And it is being spoken about in terms of, oh, it's so milk toast

1223
00:55:56.940 --> 00:56:02.820
and so pleaty. you know, like, yes, we're gay and we just can't

1224
00:56:02.820 --> 00:56:05.820
help it and we want you to stop being mean to us.

1225
00:56:05.940 --> 00:56:10.079
Can I quote something in like reaction to this?

1226
00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:10.980
You ready?

1227
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:15.780
You cannot destroy an idea.

1228
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.340
It's true.

1229
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:18.599
I created it.

1230
00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:19.860
Okay, he's a bit over the top.

1231
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:20.760
Bloody hell.

1232
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:22.139
I felt for him in the moment.

1233
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:22.739
Yeah.

1234
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:28.079
No, but and so they've decided, is it because they've decided to

1235
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:31.440
give it to Vulcans and Vulcans who just think the chief thing

1236
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:34.619
about Vulcans is they talk like space people so that we don't care

1237
00:56:34.619 --> 00:56:37.320
about them, which wasn't what Spock did.

1238
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:39.239
He didn't talk like a space person.

1239
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:42.539
Are we supposed to hate the Vulcans?

1240
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.800
we supposed to really dislike them?

1241
00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:44.760
I think we are.

1242
00:56:44.820 --> 00:56:45.420
Yep.

1243
00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:48.300
Well, why do we spend so much time on our own characters that

1244
00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:49.320
we're not supposed to enjoy?

1245
00:56:49.380 --> 00:56:54.539
So the point of the Vulcans, don't the Vulcans...

1246
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.260
They hold them back.

1247
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:57.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1248
00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:02.159
So his dad would have gone out in space a lot quicker. if that's

1249
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:02.340
right.

1250
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:03.539
The Vulcans hadn't held.

1251
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:06.179
If it hadn't been for them, pesky Vulcans and they're racing.

1252
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.019
I think he died before Archer had the opportunity to go out, so he

1253
00:57:10.019 --> 00:57:11.159
really known about it.

1254
00:57:11.219 --> 00:57:13.079
And yet, that was his biggest dream, his dad.

1255
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:14.820
I think that was Archer's issue in the 1st episode.

1256
00:57:14.940 --> 00:57:16.320
Right.

1257
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:19.440
Oh, look, look.

1258
00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.300
Grow up, trip.

1259
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.260
Jesus Christ.

1260
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.559
They're just sniffing one another and he's looking off in another

1261
00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:27.179
direction. sniffed them as well.

1262
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:29.340
Let's all sniff each other.

1263
00:57:29.460 --> 00:57:29.820
Come on.

1264
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:34.199
Well, if you if you want to be invited to one of their parties.

1265
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:41.099
Everyone, put your runabout keys in the pot.

1266
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:41.639
Okay?

1267
00:57:41.699 --> 00:57:43.679
Yep, yep, exactly.

1268
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:47.880
We've got plastic bags for your clothes.

1269
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:54.300
Did, um, can I ask, did, do you think, um, looking for a market in

1270
00:57:54.300 --> 00:57:56.579
all the wrong places dealt with sexuality better than this one?

1271
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:57.539
We watched that recently.

1272
00:57:58.019 --> 00:58:02.280
Um, I mean, it had Dax who was just frothing for war throughout.

1273
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:10.260
It wasn't realistic and it wasn't growing up, but it wasn't

1274
00:58:10.260 --> 00:58:11.099
adolescent.

1275
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:15.119
It was sort of TV realistic sex. you know what I mean?

1276
00:58:15.179 --> 00:58:22.860
And I did think, like, there were elements of the Kira Miles thing

1277
00:58:22.860 --> 00:58:26.039
which I thought were kind of fun and funny and okay.

1278
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:28.679
I still love that line, that line when they realise they've gone

1279
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:29.099
too far.

1280
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:32.039
Yes, it's like just go. just go.

1281
00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:34.380
I'm going to go and see Goldfunk Shakar.

1282
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.380
You go and fuck your wife and we'll just never talk about this

1283
00:58:37.380 --> 00:58:37.619
again.

1284
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:38.760
You know what I mean?

1285
00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:42.719
Like, that was that was kind of okay.

1286
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:45.179
But Julian was a prick in that one.

1287
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:45.780
Do you know what I mean?

1288
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:46.860
Oh, I bet you caught.

1289
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:50.579
I bet you caught a look at oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1290
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:52.260
Yeah, yeah.

1291
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:53.760
I guess not pretend people.

1292
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:55.679
Let's not pretend that people like that don't exist.

1293
00:58:55.739 --> 00:58:57.960
I know, but it's pathetic.

1294
00:58:58.019 --> 00:59:00.539
You know, it's they're pathetic people.

1295
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.739
I think I said something about a bloat yesterday, do you know?

1296
00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:06.539
No, that's different.

1297
00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:10.619
Oh, is this where they're going, oh, well, you can hang around now

1298
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:11.159
great, great.

1299
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:12.780
So what's going to happen to these people?

1300
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:14.340
I'm not sure, really.

1301
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:15.179
No, nothing.

1302
00:59:15.179 --> 00:59:16.800
Sure, that'll be all right. them again.

1303
00:59:16.860 --> 00:59:18.300
Jesus Christ.

1304
00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:22.800
Oh, wow, you must be very disappointed that he broke his promise

1305
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:23.579
to you.

1306
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:24.780
It's all about you.

1307
00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:29.639
He broke his promise because he wanted to make the political point

1308
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:33.480
she wanted to make and Archer always puts the blame in the wrong

1309
00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:34.320
place, doesn't he?

1310
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:35.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1311
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:39.119
He never quite figures out the root of what the problem actually

1312
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:39.360
is.

1313
00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:44.340
There is just almost a sense in which the episode thinks that

1314
00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:50.519
Eurus should say that, thinks that he should out himself and say

1315
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:56.159
that she's innocent, and that that's a reasonable deal, because

1316
00:59:56.159 --> 00:59:59.519
we're just kind of happy for the episode to end.

1317
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:03.119
That's a good happy ending for everyone except Yuros, who's lost

1318
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:08.039
his job, but he just kept mind melding with people and he

1319
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:09.300
completely deserved it.

1320
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:13.500
I just think it's an absolute failure as an issue episode.

1321
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:15.000
Like just miserable.

1322
01:00:15.059 --> 01:00:16.139
What is fun?

1323
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:17.039
What did you take away from it?

1324
01:00:17.099 --> 01:00:18.059
What did you take away from it?

1325
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:18.780
What did you learn?

1326
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.420
What did you, you know, what did you learn about the characters?

1327
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:23.699
What did you learn about the disease?

1328
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:26.519
What did you learn about the people that are spreading this

1329
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:26.760
thing?

1330
01:00:26.820 --> 01:00:30.239
What did we learn about Vulcan society apart from the fact they're

1331
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:30.599
pricks?

1332
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:31.260
We knew that already.

1333
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:32.760
Yeah, yeah.

1334
01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:36.119
Well, they're racist and horrible and homophobic and just dreadful

1335
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.639
and the show sort of is as well.

1336
01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:40.800
So are the human characters in this.

1337
01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:41.639
Yeah.

1338
01:00:41.699 --> 01:00:43.500
I'm not sure who we're supposed to like.

1339
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:48.059
I think the worst thing, like, where's Tripp's big dick energy?

1340
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:52.199
That guy, I've seen him with his shirt off, like he's, he should

1341
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:57.420
not be as awkward about sex as he is in this episode.

1342
01:00:57.539 --> 01:01:00.000
He's a very, very handsome man.

1343
01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:04.679
But they love they freaking love putting Tripp in that situation

1344
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:08.280
because in the 3rd episode, they make him pregnant.

1345
01:01:08.340 --> 01:01:11.519
So they make him, you know, experience things from the woman's

1346
01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:12.119
point of view there.

1347
01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:16.320
I think he's the one that to Paul's hunting through the ship in

1348
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:17.460
that episode later in the season.

1349
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:19.139
So, you know, he would be.

1350
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:21.539
Oh, it's all just very terrible.

1351
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:24.179
And he into Paul hype sex in series three.

1352
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:29.099
I genuinely think this period, so you've got your precious cargo

1353
01:01:29.099 --> 01:01:31.559
you've got your stigma and you've got your future tense.

1354
01:01:31.619 --> 01:01:37.139
This is like the Nadir of the Star Trek franchise.

1355
01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:41.940
This is all that was coming out and it's all pretty terrible.

1356
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.420
So I'm surprised they survived this 2nd year.

1357
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:46.320
I'm honest.

1358
01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:50.820
I think probably at this point they're just exhausted that they've

1359
01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:54.300
done what, you know, 21 seasons of this.

1360
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:59.219
They've got a premise, which they thought would be interesting, but

1361
01:01:59.219 --> 01:02:03.119
they've just basically been doing Star Trek things again.

1362
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.300
And they've kind of run out of things to do.

1363
01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:10.500
And the characters aren't interesting or likeable enough.

1364
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:15.360
And so they've got a bit of a problem, I think, to do something

1365
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:16.920
interesting going forward.

1366
01:02:16.980 --> 01:02:19.380
They fundamentally had to rewrite the entire show.

1367
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:23.820
Put it in a new section of space and bring in a whole new reef of

1368
01:02:23.820 --> 01:02:28.079
alien characters to do anything original with this show.

1369
01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:30.179
If you'll indulge me.

1370
01:02:30.300 --> 01:02:34.139
I've got a quote here from Brandon Bragger and Rick Berman before

1371
01:02:34.139 --> 01:02:38.340
we go about this fantastic issue episode that they have written.

1372
01:02:38.460 --> 01:02:43.739
Brandon Bragger remarks, we're not here to provide answers to

1373
01:02:43.739 --> 01:02:44.219
questions.

1374
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:47.099
We're here to provoke thought about an issue.

1375
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:50.340
This episode stands on its own, even if you don't draw the

1376
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:51.059
analogy.

1377
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:53.820
It's still an interesting episode because it deals with general

1378
01:02:53.820 --> 01:02:54.780
prejudice.

1379
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.760
The metaphor will be clear to some people.

1380
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:00.000
That's right.

1381
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:01.079
That's really aiming high.

1382
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:03.179
We're here to provide answers.

1383
01:03:03.179 --> 01:03:03.900
Well, we do.

1384
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:06.360
Well, thank you very much for not providing an answer.

1385
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:08.400
So there's a terrible problem that happened 15 years ago.

1386
01:03:08.460 --> 01:03:12.300
Rick Berman says they didn't actually say they'd like us to come

1387
01:03:12.300 --> 01:03:13.260
up with a storyline.

1388
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:15.960
They invited us to a presentation they had, which was quite

1389
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:20.219
impressive that they asked all the producers on the lot to attend

1390
01:03:20.219 --> 01:03:21.179
which Brandon and I did.

1391
01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:25.619
This episode depicts the Vulcan physicians as unwilling to supply

1392
01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:28.920
research, medicine, or preventative efforts in order to stop the

1393
01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:32.579
spread of this disease, simply because they don't control the

1394
01:03:32.579 --> 01:03:34.739
behaviour of the Vulcan subset.

1395
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:37.260
Oh, he even says it in the quote adult.

1396
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:40.980
Many in today's society believe that is this kind of intolerance

1397
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:44.699
and ignorance that allows HIV AIDS epidemic to spread.

1398
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:47.519
In this case, the people are genetically capable performing my

1399
01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:47.940
males.

1400
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:51.179
This is all something that would be different in the age of Kirk

1401
01:03:51.179 --> 01:03:54.900
and Picard, but in our century, there is definitely a stigma

1402
01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:58.860
against people who go against normal mors and policies and attempt

1403
01:03:58.860 --> 01:04:01.619
this very emotional and intimate act of a mind man.

1404
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:02.639
What is he talking about?

1405
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:08.099
Well, he's trying to talk about this without mentioning gay people

1406
01:04:08.099 --> 01:04:08.880
at all.

1407
01:04:08.940 --> 01:04:13.920
And that's the thing, they are so uncomfortable about it, and

1408
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:17.519
that's what's wrecked this episode.

1409
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:22.380
And interestingly, there is one other point on memory alpha

1410
01:04:22.380 --> 01:04:27.000
whereas some critics, such as John Ruck of the Boston Herald, felt

1411
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:31.199
that this episode was far too vague in dealing with prejudice

1412
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:35.099
based on sexual orientation. honestly.

1413
01:04:35.159 --> 01:04:39.840
Nathan, I don't think we're going to see an episode of Enterprise

1414
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:42.599
that is as dreary as that one.

1415
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:43.559
Yeah, I'm hoping.

1416
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:44.280
It's possible.

1417
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:51.900
All right, it's time for us to pick our next episode, and so Joe

1418
01:04:51.900 --> 01:04:58.500
is on Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and can you

1419
01:04:58.500 --> 01:05:00.719
tell us which series we're choosing from?

1420
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:01.739
All of them.

1421
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.619
Because I think that's a low effort choice.

1422
01:05:04.679 --> 01:05:05.760
The default choice.

1423
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:06.480
Oh, okay.

1424
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:10.019
No, no, no, no, no. hang on. fine.

1425
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:12.780
I've been guilty of it quite a lot.

1426
01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:14.940
Except I'm going to keep pressing the button.

1427
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:16.500
Until I get a two-parter.

1428
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:18.239
There you go Oh my god.

1429
01:05:18.300 --> 01:05:19.500
That could take forever.

1430
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:21.119
There aren't that many times.

1431
01:05:21.179 --> 01:05:22.079
No worries, my payoff.

1432
01:05:22.139 --> 01:05:22.559
I got time.

1433
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:24.300
Okay.

1434
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:26.159
Okay.

1435
01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:29.340
I'll be embarrassed by the process before we reach a two-parter, I

1436
01:05:29.340 --> 01:05:29.519
think.

1437
01:05:29.579 --> 01:05:30.000
All right.

1438
01:05:30.059 --> 01:05:30.900
Go for it.

1439
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:37.199
So my 1st episode is Star Trek, the Next Generation, season

1440
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:37.679
seven.

1441
01:05:37.739 --> 01:05:38.340
Oh, dear.

1442
01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:40.559
Parallels.

1443
01:05:41.099 --> 01:05:43.800
Oh, that's actually fun.

1444
01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:44.460
That's wharf.

1445
01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:46.860
Hop into lots of alternative, yeah.

1446
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:48.599
And that's where he 1st starts boning Troy.

1447
01:05:48.659 --> 01:05:49.619
Yes, that's true.

1448
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:51.599
He realises they're in a relationship.

1449
01:05:52.019 --> 01:05:54.179
Oh, Nathan.

1450
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:56.940
Oh, I'm going to hold this up to the screen.

1451
01:05:57.059 --> 01:05:58.380
It's not a two-parter.

1452
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:00.000
We might have to do it.

1453
01:06:00.059 --> 01:06:01.980
Okay, show me, show me, show me.

1454
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:03.539
It's Deep Space 9.

1455
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:04.739
Season seven.

1456
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:05.940
Episode 15.

1457
01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:09.059
Bada bing, bada bang.

1458
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:10.800
Oh, I think so.

1459
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:11.159
Yep.

1460
01:06:11.219 --> 01:06:11.760
Yeah.

1461
01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:15.059
Although we can't do another comedy, DS9 episode.

1462
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:15.420
Can we?

1463
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:17.639
We're giving people the wrong impression about this show.

1464
01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:19.619
All comedies as far as I'm concerned.

1465
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:22.320
Even the one where Norglooses his leg.

1466
01:06:22.380 --> 01:06:22.800
You sure?

1467
01:06:22.860 --> 01:06:24.420
We done a DSM recently.

1468
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:25.380
Yep we're doing it.

1469
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:26.219
Oh okay.

1470
01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:31.139
I mean, is everybody dressed as the nines?

1471
01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:32.340
It's the highest episode.

1472
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.739
Penny Johnson Gerald's in there being fabulous.

1473
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:37.260
Yep, there's a musical number at the end.

1474
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:41.760
There's a political issue that they deal with without filing all

1475
01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:43.260
the serial numbers of it.

1476
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:49.380
It's properly good. 90s trek, no reflective surfaces, but I'm

1477
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:51.059
absolutely fine that I don't mind.

1478
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:53.880
And my challenge to you is this.

1479
01:06:53.940 --> 01:06:58.860
I defy you to watch this episode and tell me that the score isn't

1480
01:06:58.860 --> 01:06:59.820
fantastic.

1481
01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:01.079
Oh, okay.

1482
01:07:01.139 --> 01:07:02.039
Yep.

1483
01:07:02.099 --> 01:07:02.519
All right.

1484
01:07:02.579 --> 01:07:03.840
All right, let's do it.

1485
01:07:12.900 --> 01:07:16.500
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1486
01:07:16.500 --> 01:07:17.699
and Nathan Bottomley.

1487
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:21.179
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find

1488
01:07:21.179 --> 01:07:23.639
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1489
01:07:23.699 --> 01:07:27.659
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Cisrin, and the theme was composed

1490
01:07:27.659 --> 01:07:28.920
by Cameron Lamb.

1491
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:33.300
This episode was recorded on the 5th of July 2022 and released on

1492
01:07:33.300 --> 01:07:34.260
the 8th of July.

1493
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:39.179
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, Deep Space 9, batter bing

1494
01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:39.719
batter bang.

1495
01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:00.059
Hello, I'm talking, and it's working.

1496
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:02.639
Although I seem to be very quiet for some reason.

1497
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:03.360
What about you?

1498
01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:07.139
No, you're very loud in my ears right now, not quite at all.

1499
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:09.300
You're right.

1500
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:11.820
You could turn your volume down.

1501
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:14.400
Oh, yeah, I could do that.

1502
01:08:14.460 --> 01:08:14.940
Yeah.

1503
01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:17.039
Yeah.

1504
01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:18.600
Anyway, doesn't matter.

1505
01:08:18.659 --> 01:08:21.720
We'll be equalised. each way. a second.

1506
01:08:21.779 --> 01:08:22.439
Wait a second.

1507
01:08:22.500 --> 01:08:25.500
Okay, I want to, hey, Joe, hi, and then I want to say something.

1508
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.439
Um, but bum, bum, bum, bum.

1509
01:08:28.500 --> 01:08:30.119
I have a thing if you want.

1510
01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:31.859
Okay, I'll flow to you.

1511
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:32.460
Yeah.

1512
01:08:32.460 --> 01:08:32.880
Yeah.

1513
01:08:39.420 --> 01:08:42.180
Hey, Joe. Hi.