WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:40:52

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back this week with another episode of Star Trek Discovery.

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And I have to say that with Strange New Worlds being on at the moment.

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I'm watching that every week and really enjoying it.

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And I'd kind of, it was risking displacing discovery in my affections, I think.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think that it's because it is just relentlessly fun and it's really episodic and really straightforward.

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And so watching this again last night, it was kind of a bit of a, well, it led to a bit of a course correction because I think discovery is really great, and I'm glad that Strange New Worlds exists, but I'm glad it's not the only Star Trek that we have.

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I went into this with a great deal of trepidation because I have not watched any of season 4 of Discovery.

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And this is the mid-season, or is it the mid-season break point?

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I was at the risk of not understanding what was going on at all.

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And I was incredibly pleasantly surprised by what I watched because this felt so 90s trek to me.

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It was untrue. don't get me wrong.

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This is clearly Kursman Trek, and there's a heavy reliance on sentiment in this episode, which I don't think is really there in 90 Street.

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But, boy, oh, boy, was there a lot of people standing around in rooms pontificating in this.

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Oh, they're absolutely over the moon.

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So yeah, one of the differences is, I think, that the rooms generally look better, and they have reflective surfaces.

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They have plenty of reflection.

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Every single one I could just see your face in now, you know?

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It was so great.

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I just think, you know, the baseline of how discovery and strange new worlds look is so much higher than 90s trek and that even though there's nothing, even though there's no sort of real massive special effect shots, I guess there's books, ship, leaving at the end of the episode and some establishing shots.

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Any action in this at all?

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none of the cruxes that I've come to expect or the things that I complain about with discovering.

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The camera work was, I wouldn't say it was sedate, but it was quite leisurely compared to, you know, those drones zapping about all over the place.

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You're right, there wasn't any extreme special effects or overlong action sequences.

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This was all about relationships, big ideas and politics.

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It was really interesting.

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Yeah, I think so too.

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And there will be action sequences and there have been earlier in the season, and this is very much a kind of episode where we stop and take stock and then establish the stakes and set up the 2 sides going forward.

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And as is typical of Kurtzman Trek, kind of federation ideals are in the foreground.

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And there's a difference of opinion about those ideals.

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And it's a similar situation to what we've had in other Kurtzman shows, where some huge disaster.

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Uh, like whether it's, you know, the Klingon war in the series one of discovery or, um, the attack on Mars in Picard series one, which, you know, leads the Federation to kind of question its ideals.

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And and discovery is so explicitly about that because we're in the future rebuilding the federation after its destruction.

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We'll get to it later in the episode.

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I think that sort of federation ideals uh angle is both a curse and a blessing in this.

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It's a curse because it leads to a very predictable 2nd plot.

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But it's a blessing because it reinstates them in a really kind of beautiful way.

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Do you know what this really isn't?

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This show has mutated so far away from what it was in series one.

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I don't even recognise it being the same show, apart from a few key characters.

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So I think it is the same show, but I think it's a show that is.

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Because it doesn't start life as a Star Trek show, but it starts life as a show set in the Star Trek universe.

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You've got people coming in going all the time.

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So, for instance, you'll have noticed Tilly is only in this in a flashback, uh, because she leaves early on in series 4 and those people we were talking about last time like Ash, you know, he doesn't last past series too.

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So you've got to cast that rotates and you've got different people in the opening credits every week.

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And that's interesting.

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You know, Trek doesn't usually do that, does it?

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No, to the point of kind of being unrealistic, where you have people just doing the same jobs, everyone does the same job.

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And every now and again, they get a bit of focus.

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Yeah, yeah, or Deep Space and Iron, you know, where the Cardassian government gets overthrown and surprised you can't still hear.

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So, so there's that.

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No, no, but this this has become a Star Trek show.

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It wasn't in series one.

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It was a show set in the Star Trek universe.

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This felt 100% a Star Trek show when I watched this.

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Which difference is the, that what this one does.

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Whereas Strange 2 Worlds is let's go to a new strange planet every week.

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It's in the title and we'll do a fun thing.

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This one has one problem that raises its head at the end of episode one and is finally resolved at the end of episode 13 and it takes a whole year to do it a whole season to do it.

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And it has a bigger scale because it's also about the Federation.

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And so it's a little bit more like the Star Trek movies were back in the day.

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You know how like the Star Trek movies when they come along really just open up the scale, you learn more about the Federation and stuff from those Star Trek movies.

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And here I think there's that.

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And so, so I think we need strange new worlds to do the explore new life, a new civilisations thing, and then discovery gets to do something bigger.

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This is doing more like, well, D-space 9 does.

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It's all these empires coming together and discussing the fate of, you know, some big, big problem that's happening at the right.

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And you know what?

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I love DS9, so I'm all there for that.

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What I think.

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Okay, you know me, I'm always going to have a problem and my biggest problem with this, and I really like this.

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This is my favourite discovery that we've watched so far was I think the show has lost a bit of its bite.

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No, Philippa.

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In series one, it was quite risky.

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It was kind of quite violent.

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It was doing shock twists.

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It wasn't really doing Star Trek type things.

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Whereas it's kind of gone in the other direction now, and every single member of this cast, and I think the characterisation is very strong, and we'll talk about this in the episode, because I think Stamet, Saru.

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I forget the what's his name, Michael Quinn.

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What does he play?

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What's his name?

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David Coenberg, plays COVID, Dr. Kovich?

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amazingly good.

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But they're all kind of nice.

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Everyone's lovely.

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You know, you haven't got a George.

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You haven't got a, what was the alternative universe?

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Captain in series one.

90
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Captain, like Jason Isaac.

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You haven't got a Garak or a Ducat.

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Everyone is kind of lovely.

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And I'm not saying that's boring, but I don't know, it does make it a little plainer than it perhaps could be.

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I actually, you know, I think that that's true, and I think that we do miss something by not having, well, you know, any Star Trek show would be vastly improved by making Cousin Michelle, a member of the semi-regular cars or occurring cars because she's awesome.

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Garak or any one of those people, you know.

97
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But, um, you know, this is uh, a Star Trek show being made kind of while America is on the brink of dumping democracy and going with Christo fascism.

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So I think it seems more urgent than previous iterations of Star Trek when it comes to politics.

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And it's very keen to portray Starfling.

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You think in this one?

101
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Yeah, look at this.

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It's all about.

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It's all about how connection is the important thing.

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When we did forget me not, remember it was all about belonging and connection and every aspect of the plot and the way the story was told was about reconnecting with something, whether it was reconnecting with the federation or reconnecting with the trill or even kind of reconnecting with the tile symbient. to myself.

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Well, we watched the last one where they were like, right, we're going to contact all the races we're going to try and bring the federation together, and this is half a season later.

106
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And I was like, well, they seem to have done a good job of that.

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Everyone's in the same room talking, you know?

108
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But you noticed that a lot of the people hadn't joined the Federation and they were just calling out things.

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They've got 40 worlds or 60 worlds or something in the federation now and earth hasn't rejoined.

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You know, like, I feel like in DS9, when you had those sort of conversations, I felt like, right, one wrong move and 1000000s of people are going to die.

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Like this is going to have severe consequences to people.

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Whereas I felt like here, they were discussing.

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What are they?

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What is the DMA?

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Yeah, so the DMA.

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That's the thing, because the DMA is a massive and normally light years across, which is just destroying planet after planet and has obviously destroyed Book's home planet equation.

117
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Is it effectively doing the same thing as like the flux in Doctor Who?

118
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Yeah, it was a bit fluxy.

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It was, well, except it's got a sort of clearly defined role and does something predictable.

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They probably need somewhere as well and as consequences somewhere.

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But it's a little bit more like the sort of weird alien entities that sort of turn up in various Star Trek films like one and four, you know, it's a big thing that's coming and it's just hoovering up planets, we don't know what it's doing.

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And at this point, they know that the species 10 C is responsible.

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They know it's been created rather than just a natural phenomenon.

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Yeah, you know, talk about making it Star Trek.

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It's about a massive fucking anomaly that's tearing up the universe.

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So much so that it even breaks the Star Trek rule that each episode needs a different title.

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And so episode 2 of this season is called Anomaly, which shadows the name of an episode of series 3 of Enterprise.

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They love breaking the rules of the titles, and they are breaking the unification number 3 and all of that.

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Yeah, yeah.

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All the various amuck time titles.

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Before we go, I want to say something massively positive, because I felt in the 1st season, a lot of those characters were a bit nebulous and they took a long time to find their feet.

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I thought the characterisation of the regulars in this was so razor sharp.

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Like they know who these characters are and they know how to write for them extremely well.

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And there were scenes where you were getting very kind of different opposing opinions and everyone was making their arguments, so crystal clear.

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I was like, this is fabulous drama, and it's people just talking very calmly in a room.

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It was great.

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I think these regulars are on fire at this point.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think they're pretty great.

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Well, we could watch him.

141
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We could.

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Let's do that.

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I've got my finger hovering over the play button, so I will count to see.

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Don't ever be around, Nathan, you know, on discovery.

145
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It's really good.

146
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You should watch series 4.

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I think I am suitably intrigued after watching this episode.

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All right, here goes five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

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We are off.

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CBS studio production.

151
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Yeah, it doesn't have the, uh, there's gray.

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He's got a synth body now so everyone can see him.

153
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That was like a very small subplot in this, wasn't it?

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The...

155
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Yeah.

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Great dimensions.

157
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And there was a little, well, we'll get it.

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There was a lovely scene between Stammets and Culba and the 2 lovers.

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And it's like one great, big, lovely family saying goodbye.

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It was really sweet.

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So we're getting the DMA explained to us here and we saw that shot of it swallowing up planets, which I think is a pretty great shot.

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Has it been a mystery to this point?

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you still don't know anything about it.

165
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Yeah.

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So I think it turns up to the end of episode one.

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And we have discovered it's artificial at this point, but we don't know anything about it.

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And obviously, Discovery's undergone something pretty terrible at the end of the previous episode, which they barely survived.

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It's a really good ending, actually, with, it's just Michael and Zora on the bridge.

170
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Did you see that special effects shot there?

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That's already making it more expensive than any episode of Ninest Trek.

172
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But even this, you know, the way the displays are all holograms.

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I think is really terrific and something that happened right at the beginning of discovery, even when it was said in the 23rd century.

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Who is voicing Zorro?

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Because that is a great vocal performance.

177
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It's actually really good.

178
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So Zora was definitely in, um, in Forget Me Not.

179
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You remember the scene at the end where she advises Saru to show them a film and they watch a film together and it's that vocal performance.

180
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And so the computer's voice starts changing.

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And I think the 1st time we see Zora is in a short trek called Calypso.

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And so she's just gradually been coming on.

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And I think they've done a really good job playing the long game and they throw away the fact that she's called herself Zora.

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It's just happens in a, you know, captain's log by Michael, I think.

185
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But has something happened to make, like, has she come into contact with something?

186
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No, so at the end of series 2, Discovery encounters a thing or in the middle of series 2, Discovery encounters a thing called the sphere, which is a big computer database, and it takes the sphere data on board, and the sphere data becomes part of the, um, the ship.

187
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And one of the reasons they have to jump into the future is to prevent themselves falling into the hands of control, which gets a mention here, which is...

188
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But the idea that Zora has gained sentience.

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Has that been hinted at before this?

191
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Well, yeah, it's been coming on the whole time.

192
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You know, she starts to speak like this.

193
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You know, she doesn't sound like a computer.

194
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Um, even though computers just sound like normal people on this version of Star Trek.

195
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She has a very different kind of inflection.

196
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I think it is a good performance because it sells the, I'm not just a normal computer thing.

197
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Well, the thing was right.

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When this pre-toxic was here and Zora said, no, I'm not going to give you the coordinates, boom straight into the credits.

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I was like, okay, I've seen this before.

200
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I know how this is gonna go.

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There's a DS9 episode where a computer program comes along and O'Brien's trying to outfox it for an entire episode and then he puts it into a little puppy pen at the end.

202
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And it was going to be something like that where they were going to have to outfox her.

203
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What actually happens is it becomes this massive treatise on identity and sentience.

204
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There's so much more interesting than that.

205
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Yeah.

206
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Well, it's it's it's trekking what's going on in the main plot.

207
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It's we've encountered a new life form that we don't understand that maybe a threat to us.

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What do we do with it?

209
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And do we destroy it?

210
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Do we lock it up?

211
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Do we, you know, try and destroy the DMA?

212
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:49.980
Do we lock sore up and they're the same kind of thing. where it felt the most 90s track was when she creates the failsafe that you can destroy me about it.

213
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:57.960
And then that felt like one of those 90s treks, moral dilemma episodes, like Tubix or something like that, where they have to ponder the consequences of whether they use this thing or not.

214
00:16:58.019 --> 00:16:59.580
It was great.

215
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:00.720
It was really great.

216
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:02.759
Well, yeah, obviously, we'll get there.

217
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:04.619
So Anna Bay aside, that's not acceptable.

218
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:05.819
We're not doing that.

219
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:14.039
You know, the FoulSafe doesn't solve the problem. because we're not going to wipe you off. for the ones that come in and say this is wrong as well.

220
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:17.279
And Hugh as well, to be fair, Hugh does too.

221
00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:19.680
I thought he was...

222
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:20.339
He's great.

223
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.319
I thought he was kind of the weakest characterised.

224
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:23.579
He didn't really have that much.

225
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:40.140
So he's had a fair bit going on this season as well, I think, and has a relationship with book. not a sexual relationship, but a professional relationship with book, is moving into the rollership's counsellor a bit as well as being a medical.

226
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:41.579
Oh, because Stamic says that, doesn't he?

227
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.019
I'm living with a counsellor.

228
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:44.940
So you pick up some things eventually.

229
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:50.339
But I've got to say, Stamets has never been better than he is here. really good in this.

230
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.240
He must have seen his script and been like, oh, amazing.

231
00:17:54.599 --> 00:18:02.279
So Dr. Kovic here is so great because he's absolutely lacking in any warmth at all.

232
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.240
He's slightly threatening and odd looking.

233
00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:09.539
So he debriefs them when they come from the future.

234
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:16.440
So I think he's in like episode 2 of series 3 and we see him interviewing various people from the crew.

235
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:17.160
Yeah.

236
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:29.819
And so he's always been a sort of slightly odd figure and he is very he's very smart and he is very federation, as we'll discover in this episode, but we don't know which way he's going to go.

237
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:42.779
And I think we have been trained by years of Star Trek to expect that he is going to, you know, delete the Zora, uh, entity, whatever she is, or is going to kind of extract her.

238
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:49.799
And later on, we discover that, in fact, he was going to extract Paul, if he couldn't cope with...

239
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:50.940
I really love that moment.

240
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.180
And bull times around and goes, and so you should, doesn't he?

241
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:55.619
That was the right call.

242
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.019
Yeah, it was great.

243
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:58.619
Really great.

244
00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:00.059
Talk about dangerous casting.

245
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.940
But they, I mean, it worked, didn't it?

246
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:03.480
It really worked.

247
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:04.319
Yeah, yeah.

248
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:08.339
I suppose he is, he is our dangerous character in this now.

249
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.079
He's our sort of itchy character.

250
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:11.819
Yeah, yeah.

251
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:13.500
Yeah, I think so.

252
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:20.339
So this, this is where most of the B plot or the A plot, I don't know.

253
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:28.500
I think they're both equal, but most most of when one of the A plots is going to take place, which is in this conference room on in Federation headquarters.

254
00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:36.839
And they have this room which, you know, is beautifully lit and has reflective surfaces and I think is beautifully designed.

255
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:44.339
But it's a very cheap way of realising this massive for discovery, it really is.

256
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:48.059
And actually, do you know, I thought the lighting was a little bit dreary here, if I'm honest.

257
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:48.960
A bit subdue.

258
00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:51.960
It reminded me of my bloody shock that I work in, all tube lighting everywhere.

259
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:53.640
Yeah, yeah.

260
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:59.460
I just like the blueness of the set and the reflective surface, so I'm absolutely here for all of those.

261
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.579
And so it looks ultra modern...

262
00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:03.720
This lady here.

263
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.180
The sort of, uh, riches on her head.

264
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.700
Again, I'm getting 90s vibes, you know?

265
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.759
President Relax.

266
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:25.259
She's clearly part human and she says that her mother was from Earth, but she also has Bajoran and Cardassian in her ancestry and she's sad.

267
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.240
And that's absolutely.

268
00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:40.079
So one of the interesting things about her is that she's a politician and so, and her and Michael do butt heads, because, you know, when she's on board the ship, Michael's in charge, but she's still the president of the federation.

269
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.259
But having her...

270
00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:44.640
So go on.

271
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:49.019
Well, what's happening with the Bajorans and the Kardassians, then, that you can have a...

272
00:20:49.200 --> 00:21:04.680
We see a we see a Cardassian in at this conference, but but I think that's super telling that she represents that makes her represent the Federation as a group of people who come to it. the hell did I not spot?

273
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.119
That wasn't the spoon and the ridges.

274
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:06.900
Honestly.

275
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:07.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

276
00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:20.220
So, so what they've done here, and I think it's really good, is that we get a few shots looking down this sort of giant tube, and so we discover it's a massive, massive conference.

277
00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:21.660
Yeah, here.

278
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:33.299
It's this shop where we go over the lip of the thing and we go down and we see just that there are dozens and dozens of people here or watching it on a screen and it looks fantastic.

279
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.420
That's a beautiful shot. don't see that shot.

280
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.619
We'll see much of it.

281
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.460
Now we're just getting about, we see about 10 people, you know, like...

282
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.319
So you know, they stab the budgetary thing.

283
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:43.799
It's enough.

284
00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:44.339
Yeah.

285
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:51.599
I think it's an ingenious way of selling the scale of it without having to put lots of extras into every shot.

286
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:57.420
But this, let's be frank, this is the cheapie of the year, isn't it?

287
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.039
Like, they are not doing anything extraordinarily ambitious visually in this episode.

288
00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:04.140
Hot Vulcan, hot Vulcan.

289
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.180
I love the Orion.

290
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:07.619
After that makeup was amazing.

291
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.819
Yeah, she's pretty awesome.

292
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.140
The Orians, man.

293
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.299
They love the Orions in Kurtzman Trek, don't they?

294
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.779
Yeah, well, I think they should.

295
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.880
They like the Andorians a bit too.

296
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.220
There's an Andorian a little bit later too.

297
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:24.059
And unlike the animated series, these Orion's actually wear clothes.

298
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.019
Yes.

299
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:26.819
Oh, there's a hot trill there as well.

300
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:30.900
I'm not sure about the the woman with the Thunderbirds hat.

301
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:31.920
That's a very odd.

302
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:33.359
Yeah, so she's from Earth.

303
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:44.759
We met her very early on in series 3 and she is in charge of earth military and she will not vote for peaceful 1st contact.

304
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:49.799
Earth has become, um, isolationist.

305
00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:50.460
Wow.

306
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:56.640
Yeah, and and paranoid. they go back there And they discover the Federation's not welcome or anything like that.

307
00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.039
But what is this sort of quorum?

308
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:01.440
Like, if this isn't the Federation?

309
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:02.099
What is this?

310
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:10.019
So Relax explains that there are like 60 worlds in the federation who are all represented here.

311
00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:14.640
But because this is a threat that, um, all the powers in it?

312
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:15.900
encompasses everyone.

313
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:18.240
Yeah, they've invited everyone.

314
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:36.660
And not just how, so there's a guy there who's got like white skin and white pupils and is wearing a sort of white outfit and he appears in the 1st scene of series 4 where Michael and book turn up on a planet to offer dilithium to them for free for help.

315
00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:44.039
They get a hostile response from them, but they give them the dilithium anyway and win them over.

316
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.960
And so having them here, voting alongside the federation.

317
00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:57.720
It's kind of like our job, our way of reconstructing the Federation is offering help, of being kind of trying to make connections.

318
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:01.799
And so that scene to have worked here, which I think is... you what.

319
00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:08.339
Pushing this show, post-Voyager, was a smart move because everything's up for craps, isn't it?

320
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.420
Yeah.

321
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:14.519
Oh, can I just say this scene here where Stammets came in and said, come on, let's have a hard group.

322
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.339
And he's playing music because he's trying to distract Zora.

323
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:18.779
I thought it was hilarious.

324
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.839
Because I'll tell you what, this was a pretty serious episode overall.

325
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.960
Yeah, yeah.

326
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:25.440
No.

327
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.960
Are you ill or something?

328
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:28.740
Are you feeling all right?

329
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:34.680
Neither of this pair look like they're in for like group hugs, you know?

330
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:35.880
Yeah, yeah.

331
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:39.960
Well, I mean, we do have the massive group hug at the end in a sense.

332
00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:49.559
I mean, that is where this plot is going to lead, is to a giant kind of, you know, she's become sentient through the power of love.

333
00:24:49.619 --> 00:24:53.220
The joy of that vocal performance for Zora was.

334
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.099
It was very flat and monotonous.

335
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:57.599
It measured, isn't it?

336
00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:59.160
got hints of emotion in it.

337
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:00.180
It's so clever.

338
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:01.259
Do you know who that is?

339
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.180
She's no, no.

340
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.140
She's superb in the end of the previous episode.

341
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:15.059
Like her, because she's quite scared, I think, Zora in the previous episode and it's a really terrific performance.

342
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.839
So the actor is called Annabelle Wallace.

343
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.420
Annabelle Wallace, I salute you.

344
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.759
Yeah, she's really great.

345
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:25.200
She's so good.

346
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:28.980
She was in Peaky Blinders.

347
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.400
In series one of Discovery.

348
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:35.579
I felt Stamitz was like obtuse.

349
00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:37.380
Annoyingly so.

350
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:43.740
In this, I felt as if he was just offering such an intelligent dissenting voice.

351
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:47.279
I was like, no, I agree with you, you know?

352
00:25:47.339 --> 00:25:58.680
But in the last episode that we did, which was magic to make the sanest man go mad, where he was sort of a bit weird and a bit drug fucked because he was hilarious.

353
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.900
That was his interfacing with...

354
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:01.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

355
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:03.180
He was great in that.

356
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:14.700
And I think just making him a bit jolly and a bit kind of more relaxed works rather than him being a sort of prickly asshole, which he is at the beginning of series one.

357
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.599
I just feel like he's really grown into like character.

358
00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:20.460
Mm, he's really good.

359
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:29.880
I think he should have got a Hugh helps, I think, having someone who is nicer than him as his partner, someone that he kind of learns from.

360
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:33.000
I was just absolutely flawed.

361
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.960
When Zora offed up like the dead man switch, I was flawed by that twist.

362
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:39.180
I was like, I didn't see that coming a mile off, you know.

363
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.619
And it's such a smart solution.

364
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.819
And then that just provoked so much conversation after that.

365
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.460
And it is just people in a room, isn't it?

366
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.539
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:26:48.839 --> 00:27:07.440
This future, too, where we don't bat an eyelid when a device just appears on the table, and we're told it does something, because the technology, like they've done a really good job in selling sort of 900 and therapies, it just appears on the table there, and we're okay with it.

368
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.819
It looks like a fancy ashtray.

369
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.099
I know you've never said anything to the contrary.

370
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:16.920
And I know you love the spectacle in discovery and Kurtzman Trek.

371
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:24.660
But this does prove that that 90 strikes formula of just talking in a room can be really great television.

372
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

373
00:27:26.819 --> 00:27:36.420
But what this does and what 90s trek rarely does is make it visually interesting and it's partly because we've got more money available and stuff.

374
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:42.900
And also I think that the acting is different in style.

375
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.119
So where is more naturalistic now.

376
00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:48.960
It's less stilted and less presentational.

377
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:51.119
As you said, the dialogue is less stilted.

378
00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:54.180
So, yeah, this guide.

379
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:58.079
That's the butterfly guy, the guy with the white skin who was talking just then.

380
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:59.759
Oh, was that a Cardassian there?

381
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.039
Yeah, there's a Cardassian there.

382
00:28:02.099 --> 00:28:03.359
That's weird, slightly weird.

383
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.099
So this fellow here, the book goes off with in the end, who's he?

384
00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:17.039
So he is, he's been in it before, and he worked with Asyra at the end of series three.

385
00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:17.940
Remember Simon?

386
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:21.660
Not that evil bitch that...

387
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.640
Oh, yes, she was great, wasn't she?

388
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:25.200
over the top.

389
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:34.859
We have just had a superb, similar character in Strange New Worlds recently who was just magnificent.

390
00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:37.079
In an episode called The Serene Squall.

391
00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:40.680
Just a complete side note. without giving anything away.

392
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:49.380
Can I just ask you, does a character from one of the Star Trek movies, a much derided Star Trek movie turn up in Strange New Worlds?

393
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:50.400
Yeah.

394
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.480
Oh, Marvellous.

395
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:58.019
I think he's going to be the big bad at the end of the season. so excited.

396
00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:01.380
That is so fucking curseman Trek, I'm telling you, to take that character.

397
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.539
So with this plot here, right?

398
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:15.420
Where we're going to go outside the galaxy and the galactic barrier exists from where no man has gone before, the 2nd episode of Star Trek.

399
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.039
They have the Galactic Barrier.

400
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:30.420
Even though it's shitty and like a kind of stupid idea, there's kind of like we're modern Star Trek, we love the shitty things in original Star Trek, and we're going to make them work, and that's what's happening here, I think.

401
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.259
Massive budget.

402
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:35.759
What's his objection to the, to this anomaly, then, this user anomaly.

403
00:29:35.819 --> 00:29:37.740
Why does he, why is he so determined to destroy it?

404
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:59.339
So it becomes clear, and he gives a big speech, and I think that despite the fact, like he's a very smart man, and he's technologically really capable, and he thinks that he can use the thing in the inside the DMA, there's a device that creates and directs it.

405
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.539
He thinks he can use that to launch himself into another universe.

406
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:11.339
And it's another universe where his friend is that he eventually ends up kind of saying is like heaven.

407
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.599
It's he describes it here as a universe where there was no burn.

408
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:20.880
Um, you know, where, you know, bad things don't happen.

409
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:25.740
And so they were talking about him being from like an alternative.

410
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:26.880
I was like what's this all about?

411
00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.940
He calls it home, but he's not from there.

412
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.079
He is from Risa.

413
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:39.240
And he, um, He, we see in, in an episode called The Galactic Barrier, I think.

414
00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:45.720
We see his backstory and he was locked up trying to work on something for Asira.

415
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.660
Another scientist comes along.

416
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:55.079
He's male, he's an alien, and the 2 of them seem to do something, like fall in love.

417
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.339
Maybe.

418
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:04.319
You know, like their relationship is very kind of intimate and physical and he's lost that guy.

419
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.799
He escapes and leaves him, that guy behind.

420
00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:16.079
And he thinks that guy who's called Oros, I think, makes it into this heaven dimension, he was looking for, and so he's trying to go there as well.

421
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:20.640
But in a way, he's there for a bit of a religious fanatic.

422
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:25.140
And I think that that's the way he's going...

423
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.059
Is that how he's depicted going on?

424
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:31.500
Yeah, not very explicitly, like he's not a ranty frothy of the mouth, kind of.

425
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:33.119
He's still very rational.

426
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:38.880
He's a pretty competing argument because I feel like books are very intelligent character for him to go off him at the end of the episode.

427
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:46.740
Yeah, but but I think that that he's not where, he's not where that point of view is located, book is.

428
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.180
And so yeah, and he makes his argument in this, doesn't he?

429
00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:55.380
Do you know what I think is really incredibly good?

430
00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:02.220
is that you've got this giant galactic scale where you've got 100s of delegates whom you see occasionally.

431
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:02.880
There's some there.

432
00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:08.039
But it is essentially... as a beard, I'm telling you.

433
00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:11.039
There's a lot of aliens from their friend in story, honestly.

434
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:18.779
Yeah, or you know, they're sort of a Star Warsness to some of them, you know, where they've got big heads or whatever.

435
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:25.380
They're not just sort of people with kind of strategically applied latex, Americans with strategically applied latex.

436
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:31.740
But what happens is that conflict ends up playing out with our 2 main characters is the...

437
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.359
I want to draw your attention to that.

438
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:37.019
Because I feel as if that needed to happen within that blob.

439
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.640
I said to you before we recorded.

440
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:44.700
I think it was our foregone conclusion that we were going to always have 1st contact with this thing and not destroy it.

441
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:47.039
So there's got to be some conflict within that.

442
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:58.920
And that part of it is played really well because I love the fact that he makes his speech and then she says, does anyone have an opposing view and Burnham obviously does.

443
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:00.900
But she doesn't want to say anything.

444
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:01.559
Yeah.

445
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.000
That was a great moment.

446
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:07.740
And then her reaction to his speech, because she's seen him grieving.

447
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:22.259
There's a whole episode where, like, it's so beautifully done where he's tethered to the ship and is going in towards the anomaly as close as he can and it's a symbol of his grief.

448
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.960
It's like, he's just got, he's just connected to Michael by the slightest thread.

449
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:36.299
And if that breaks, if that thread breaks, does he end up trying to destroy himself just out of grief and survivor's guilt?

450
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:43.980
And so it's a space problem that solved using a weird metaphor about books grief.

451
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:53.819
And so we sympathise with him, you know, like he's right in all sorts of ways. 1000000000s of people will die if this thing continues.

452
00:33:53.940 --> 00:34:00.539
And so by placing the opposition to federation ideals in a sympathetic character.

453
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.759
I think we need the...

454
00:34:02.819 --> 00:34:11.340
But like when we're going for that kind of tedious voting process where we know this is, yeah, we know we know where the numbers are going to fall.

455
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:12.059
That's quite nice.

456
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:22.079
And I've got to say, ever since I've seen all these, you know, fabulous holographic consoles, my keyboard seems very old-fashioned now, do you know?

457
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:23.579
I'm one of them.

458
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.119
But what I really loved was then the 2nd that he clearly lost.

459
00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:32.400
She was desperate to go to him and then the woman stepped in and said, I need you.

460
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.679
I need discovery to lead this, like you can't.

461
00:34:34.739 --> 00:34:41.460
And that's essentially why he gets away at the end because he goes straight back to his quarters and buggers off.

462
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:45.900
But she, he also says, no, we're done.

463
00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:51.179
Because remember, um, the cat speech, but I'm assuming this cat means a lot to him.

464
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:56.460
Oh, and the sign the sign says, I love you, Michael. after my girl.

465
00:34:56.579 --> 00:34:57.840
Yeah.

466
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.360
Are you holding back tears there?

467
00:35:00.420 --> 00:35:06.900
I think, yeah, I think this works so well because I actually find this relationship really strong.

468
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

469
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:10.619
It's so mature, isn't it?

470
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.260
It's not like Delaney sisters.

471
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.440
Imagine, yeah, think of some of those romances in 90s straight.

472
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.000
It's the odd one.

473
00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:21.300
We love Cisco and Casting and things like that, but they're few and far between.

474
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.079
Yeah, yeah.

475
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.360
But it's almost a problem, isn't it?

476
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:26.519
There is there's a maturity to that relationship as well.

477
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:28.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

478
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.940
But it's kind of sexy as well.

479
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.679
He's so hot.

480
00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:44.519
And she's beautiful, you know, like the two, these 2 incredibly beautiful young people, you know, I just think they're... went 2 characters and are so good together and then they manipulate them into a situation where they're on opposing size.

481
00:35:44.579 --> 00:35:46.079
Well, there's your drama.

482
00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:53.219
And you've got you've got an opposing side that you can sympathise with that's right in all sorts of ways.

483
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:59.039
And because Tark is a religious maniac, it will go wrong, although he's not playing it like a maniac.

484
00:35:59.099 --> 00:36:02.639
And yet in the same ref, you know that the 1st contract option is the right thing to do.

485
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:06.119
So that's, you know, it's kind of like who's wrong there?

486
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:06.960
Who's right, who's wrong?

487
00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:15.719
No, but it is a risky thing and it nearly doesn't come off and the way it's done at the end of the season is so good.

488
00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:17.940
It's so...

489
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.260
I really, really loved.

490
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:29.280
And I went out of this episode and I high and it wasn't just coming up on discovery and all the exciting things they were showing me that was coming there was that the cliffhanger was so understated.

491
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:33.119
It wasn't some massive overblown moment of drama.

492
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:37.320
It was he's going off to destroy this thing and she's got to stop him.

493
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:39.659
But it was, I thought it was beautifully done.

494
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.739
I love how she gets to say shit when she gets coming.

495
00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:56.639
They don't say fuck anymore on discovery and they used to, and I miss that, but I do like how the characters can kind of swear on Kurtzman Trek, because it just makes them seem real.

496
00:36:56.699 --> 00:37:08.940
I will reinstate, though, that some of the scenes of the different delegates talking, it really was dreary kind of trek politics, you know?

497
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.280
Like, because so much of the rest of this was so good.

498
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.860
I want to be balanced, you know.

499
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:36.539
The only thing that sells that, that scene is that the way gradually Michael and book are, uh, shifted into the position where they become the emblems, you know, however reluctantly, where they become the leaders of the 2 different factions in a way, where they're the ones who put the case together.

500
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:43.139
I think this is very moving as well because we will, as I said, see the relationship between Taka and Oros in a future episode.

501
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.619
Well, it looks like he's very touching. what's coming in the future.

502
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:52.800
It looked like they were literally going to run and run with this thing with those 2 on the run, like going to destroy this thing.

503
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.079
There was no, no, no, it's a different location.

504
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:56.159
So I figured it'd work out.

505
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:57.179
This is going to run for a while.

506
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.780
I'll tell you what, one thing, one thing this got really, really right.

507
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:08.460
And then one of my biggest criticisms of Kurtzman Trek is the, uh, reliance on syrup.

508
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:09.900
And I know you love it.

509
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:15.780
I know you love the sentiment and you feel as if previous iterations of Star Trek could do with a lot more.

510
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:16.800
Yeah.

511
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:25.619
But, uh, there was no scenes of people, you know, in slow motion looking at each other across the room, agonising.

512
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:39.599
No, but there was a moment where which really laid it on thick when they were showing how Zora had connected with the crew and how she expressed that through scenes of them all hugging.

513
00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:40.320
Yeah.

514
00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:42.539
It was so beautifully done.

515
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.639
It was quite subtle.

516
00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:48.000
It wasn't, it didn't feel subtle. that it was wonderful.

517
00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:51.420
It didn't feel as overblown as what we saw at the end of season three.

518
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.500
Yeah, I really like that.

519
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:58.260
I mean, she does become sentient through the power of love.

520
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.219
My book in this thing makes it clear that they're done, doesn't he?

521
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:04.019
Like at the end.

522
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:10.739
So this is him making his speech to the delegates about like all, he's lost like 1000000000s of people will die.

523
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.000
He's lost everyone.

524
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:16.920
You will be going through what I go through if this goes wrong and...

525
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.260
And he's so good.

526
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:23.400
This could have been such a good agonising and he sells it brilliantly, doesn't it?

527
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:26.639
I think it's because he doesn't start blubbing or anything like that.

528
00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:29.940
He's just kind of a bit cold. and determined.

529
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:30.420
Yeah.

530
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:45.539
Well, and also you've got Michael looking at him because she understands that that's how he feels and that he's not wrong to feel that way and she's kind of she has to just let it happen because of what he's been going through, you know.

531
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:48.300
Do you know who that white fellow is in the muscle suit?

532
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:49.139
The white eyes.

533
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

534
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:56.039
That's the butterfly people from episode one of series 4, who...

535
00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:57.360
Yeah, yeah.

536
00:39:57.420 --> 00:39:59.880
And I was also like, be smoking hole as well.

537
00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:02.880
That book here is absolutely smoking.

538
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:03.360
Oh, yeah, yeah.

539
00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:03.900
Yeah.

540
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:04.860
No, they both are.

541
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.980
Like both him and Sanequa are just beautiful.

542
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:10.139
Oh, look, we got some tears here. some tears.

543
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:12.239
Look, it's still quite restrained though, isn't it?

544
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:13.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

545
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:14.340
It's very method.

546
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.619
Oh, look, that looks like Morn.

547
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:18.420
That kind of ball looks like Morn.

548
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.079
Yeah.

549
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:23.219
So we do have the occasional, tell me the name of that race.

550
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.380
Uh, the Lumians?

551
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:27.780
Lurians, something like that. have no idea.

552
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:28.920
The modern people.

553
00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:31.800
Yeah, they never talk in discovery.

554
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:33.599
We never see them saying anything.

555
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:35.219
I'm quite disappointed.

556
00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:36.239
I think they're continuing that.

557
00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:39.179
The Beaumont are not representing amongst these people.

558
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:42.360
I choose to believe that they're on one of those levels.

559
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:47.699
I think they were assimilated by the Borg completely.

560
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:48.420
Okay.

561
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:49.500
Oh my god, did you see that?

562
00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:51.360
That little fellow with a spiky head?

563
00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.980
He looked just like...

564
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:54.539
What's his name?

565
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:57.119
Banacafalata from Doctor Who's watching the band?

566
00:40:57.179 --> 00:40:58.260
From Doctor Who.

567
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:02.159
He does appear again later. very visible.

568
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:17.039
Uh, so this is where we find the sector in Zora's memory that has absorbed just all the love on board discovery.

569
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:20.760
Could I just say Gray's look is incredible.

570
00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:22.380
I think he looks beautiful.

571
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.139
Yeah, yeah, he does look amazing, doesn't he?

572
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.139
Like he's, he's, I guess now that he has a synth body.

573
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.900
He's just able to say, actually, growing my hair or whatever.

574
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.099
No, I think that happened.

575
00:41:32.099 --> 00:41:34.500
I've never seen this character since he's had a simple body.

576
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.300
So I'm not entirely sure how that occurred.

577
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:42.599
He comes back to series 4 looking like that, even though he's just, you know, someone who's visible.

578
00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:45.719
Oh, they're coming to get me, I think, the police.

579
00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:49.980
Finally, someone who's just visible to Adira.

580
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.900
It's a pretty strong look.

581
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.599
He's looking pretty striking I've told him...

582
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.559
He's on 90s trek.

583
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:56.400
They coming to bang you up.

584
00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:57.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

585
00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:03.599
The last time I saw Gray, he was manifested in Adira's mind.

586
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:04.199
Yeah, yeah.

587
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:08.039
And he was at the beginning of series 4 and they don't put a lot of effort.

588
00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:19.440
They don't hang a lot on the synth body, but you remember at the end of series 3 where Gray realises he has to go back into a sort of realm.

589
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:21.300
Remember he's visible on the holodeck.

590
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.360
Yeah, be in the series three. so they all see him.

591
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:26.159
He looks like a little elfin.

592
00:42:26.219 --> 00:42:29.280
There was a lot going on at the end of series for your discovery, right?

593
00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:30.900
Yeah, but plenty.

594
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:37.139
He was kind of, he was, you know, apprehensive about going back into a situation where no one could see him.

595
00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:43.619
And so we work towards the synth body, which has already been established, obviously, at the end of Picard series one as a possibility.

596
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:45.719
Dear looked quite different before as well.

597
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:46.980
Yeah.

598
00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:47.940
Yeah.

599
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:48.480
Yeah.

600
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:49.260
Yeah.

601
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:50.460
It might just be the new uniform.

602
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:52.260
Oh, so you know, I love this.

603
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:56.280
All these scenes of them caressing and hugging and all this, you know, it's very nice.

604
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:05.519
But it's a way of the computer, actually expressing how she feels. you know, how is she going to do that without some kind of visual representation?

605
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:11.039
Until you hugging Michael at the beginning of series three. episode two.

606
00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:16.320
Yes, the love between Shaw Show and Michael is also part of it.

607
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.420
The connection that they have.

608
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.340
I love you but I'll kill you in a heartbeat.

609
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:26.340
Yeah, he's gray stepping up to work out what it is on the boys. that's lovely.

610
00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:29.880
I didn't think this was overdone, you know.

611
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:33.480
Oh, I swear there's something going on between these two.

612
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:34.199
Oh, well, Detma.

613
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:35.639
Oh, swear.

614
00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:37.980
They don't even appear in this episode apart from there.

615
00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:42.119
But honestly, all of this dialogue.

616
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:43.800
Was top notch.

617
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:44.760
Yeah.

618
00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:50.940
Yeah, and look, Michael and Borke, this relationship that's being tested and torn apart in the other plot.

619
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.940
Have I missed a bit where they made sure who she is?

620
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:57.179
Between the 2 scenes, where they were talking about the climax.

621
00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:57.840
Okay.

622
00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:59.460
It's coming up to the climax.

623
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:16.139
And I want to talk about that because you explicitly say, don't you, that in Kurtzman Trek, if you have an A plot and a B plot, they're thematically linked, and, you know, it's pushing one idea in both plots, which isn't always a case in night and I do accept that.

624
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:20.280
You have these bizarre comedy sublots in 90s straight, which go nowhere.

625
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:22.320
Which are still fun.

626
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:24.000
It's got a cargo bay or something.

627
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:30.360
But here, it couldn't be made more explicit, could it?

628
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:31.559
So here it is.

629
00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:32.699
This is the scene here.

630
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:53.639
And so it's crossfades between Michael talking and Paul talking. about we've we've had this choice where we can reject something new, something that we don't understand, and we, um, you know, this is these are our ideals.

631
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:58.199
We seek out new life, new civilisations, but to connect, there we go.

632
00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:00.659
There's the title there, not to destroy, but to connect.

633
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:03.420
And so that's happening in both plots.

634
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:12.000
Each of them are making a speech and the direction is telling us that they're similar because we're cross-fading between what we need, don't we?

635
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:16.019
We need Picard from Measuring a Man to go, you know, seek out new life and new.

636
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.519
And there it sits, just there.

637
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:20.340
You know, basically that's what they're saying about Zora, isn't it?

638
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:20.940
It's the same story.

639
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.079
It's the same thing, but less stagey and less kind of age.

640
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:26.639
Less static as well. as well.

641
00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:27.599
The camera's moving.

642
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:29.280
Yeah, yeah.

643
00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:31.980
With the camera's moving, the camera's moving in the same way.

644
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:34.320
It's going around the person who's speaking.

645
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:37.980
So it's just another way of linking those 2 scenes together.

646
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.679
It's not just the crossfades, but the fact the camera's doing the same thing.

647
00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:44.579
Measure a man is justly...

648
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:49.500
Yeah, it is good, but it is raised higher because so much around it is terrible.

649
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:50.280
Terrible.

650
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:51.239
It's very good.

651
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.039
I wouldn't say it's an out and out classic.

652
00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:55.380
Whereas much of discovery is very thoughtful.

653
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.139
So this doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

654
00:45:58.199 --> 00:45:58.860
Yeah.

655
00:45:58.860 --> 00:46:00.360
I think this is very good though.

656
00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:02.099
Much better than I remembered.

657
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:15.719
I just found, you know, I just found, I found Tarker's speech about trying to find heaven and his friend just terribly moving, particularly knowing what to come.

658
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:21.179
You said there was a danger of going from Strange New Worlds to this because it is totally different.

659
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:24.239
But this is supposed to show there is a place.

660
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.320
Go on.

661
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:43.860
But this is book here breaking up with her saying that that, you know, she said, so she said, let's hope that even though we didn't all vote for the same thing, we can move on and work together and he says, no, sometimes differences are too great and you just have to accept the consequences of that.

662
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.500
So I can't imagine breaking up.

663
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:47.400
Does that stick?

664
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.059
Well, they're not together for the rest of the season.

665
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.679
They don't meet until the final episode.

666
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:53.760
Yeah.

667
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.960
Okay.

668
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:59.519
Well, I love the fact that to get on with the 1st plot.

669
00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:01.440
All they've got to do is trust each other.

670
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:02.699
So, yeah.

671
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:08.159
What is it they offer her a position as a specialist.

672
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:11.280
I thought was great.

673
00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:13.139
It's so good.

674
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:14.699
Her reaction to it is wonderful.

675
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.980
She's so excited, isn't she?

676
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:18.599
I love it.

677
00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:21.239
Oh, look at this gray...

678
00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:22.980
What do you think they are, Gray?

679
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:23.880
Jesus Christ.

680
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:27.179
Why do they give Gray that line which makes him seem really dumb?

681
00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.460
Where he says, what are those numbers on the screen?

682
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.039
It's like, what do you reckon?

683
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:35.519
Sometimes you've got to spell it out to the audience, don't you?

684
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:37.139
The line of the audience.

685
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:41.099
Do you know what a line I loved was when Zora said, I feel seen.

686
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.900
I thought that was a fabulous line.

687
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:44.340
Yeah, so good.

688
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:51.239
There's our, look, here we are voting, and so we get to see that shot down the big tunnel and see all the delegates and stuff.

689
00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:53.400
And it's a pad of paper, isn't it?

690
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:55.199
Hold up your hands. with a visual.

691
00:47:55.320 --> 00:48:00.900
Yeah, and the compute, you just see the hologram of the computer detecting their hands, the Orion woman's not convinced.

692
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.800
The hot volcanies.

693
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:03.360
Oh, ooh, look at that.

694
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:04.440
Not that shrill.

695
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:06.059
Yeah, that trill.

696
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:10.079
There's another horror trill, though, elsewhere among the delegates.

697
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.659
You've just noticed everyone's hot in Curtzman Trek.

698
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:13.440
Have you ever noticed that?

699
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:20.940
Yeah, well, I think just actors have to be hotter now in the intervening 30 years, everyone on TV.

700
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:21.599
Jesus Christ.

701
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:22.019
Yeah.

702
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.079
Oh, that Ferengi, look, it looks terrible.

703
00:48:25.139 --> 00:48:25.739
Yeah.

704
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:29.340
Yeah, they're kind of...

705
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:30.119
I'm watching it.

706
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:31.559
Bloody master plan.

707
00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

708
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:35.460
That's so great, isn't it?

709
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:40.559
But it's so much better than just having a bunch of Americans standing around looking all the same as one another.

710
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:46.500
Yeah, and it is it is way more imaginative than a lot of those not.

711
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:49.739
And look at the way she looks across at him.

712
00:48:49.800 --> 00:49:00.059
So she's voting yes and looking across at him and he's stony faced and she's kind of going, please, you know, um, but he's already said we're done.

713
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.400
Um, yeah.

714
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:04.619
Can you imagine if somebody else?

715
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:10.199
If somebody else had played books role in this plot, it would have been a little bit interpretable, wouldn't it?

716
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:18.420
Yeah, the thing that matters is that it's a relationship that we care about that we know and that we're invested in, it's been going on for 2 years.

717
00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:21.719
Look, he gave her them when he walked off.

718
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:22.320
I know.

719
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:23.579
I know.

720
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:24.539
Oh.

721
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.940
Can I just say as a side note, that is one good looking cat he's got as well.

722
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.139
What a beautiful cat.

723
00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:34.079
No, it's an ugly fat cat.

724
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.380
It's a particular breed of cat, and so it's...

725
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.239
It's called grudge.

726
00:49:39.300 --> 00:49:40.440
It's beautiful.

727
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:43.739
I love the fact that it can't bear burn them.

728
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.119
Yeah, yeah.

729
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:46.920
Cats are just like that, you know.

730
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:48.960
They favour one, but one after the couple.

731
00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:55.860
Well, they have that whole conversation where it's kind of like it's moving from hostility to indifference and that's some kind of victory.

732
00:49:56.639 --> 00:50:03.780
Oh, and here is absolutely right that Stamets is the one that destroys the kill switch at the end, isn't it?

733
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:05.579
Like, he's the one that makes the move.

734
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:09.599
This.

735
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:15.420
And just Kovic is so unexpectedly on Zora's side. so good.

736
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:24.119
But no, I love the fact there's what, Stomach comes to his own conclusion about it, you know, like he doesn't have to be persuaded.

737
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:27.659
He, through the conversation, he realises.

738
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.440
It's that thing though.

739
00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:45.000
Remember where early on in the episode, Zora refuses to divulge the coordinates and Michael says, I'm the captain and it's my decision and Starfleet, the Federation's decision.

740
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:46.260
It's not yours.

741
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:55.320
And so this is him solving that problem finally by putting her in Starfleet and so she's subject to the same rules as everyone else.

742
00:50:55.380 --> 00:51:00.780
Unreasonable for him to have pointed out that if she decides this is too dangerous for us.

743
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:02.760
Well, where does where's the line, you know?

744
00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:03.900
Yeah.

745
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:04.679
Yeah.

746
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:07.559
Yes, it's great.

747
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.119
That's what does being seen.

748
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:12.659
Yeah, wonderful line, isn't it?

749
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:14.280
Yeah, it's really good isn't it?

750
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:18.360
And I've got to say, I am totally unborn with you.

751
00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:19.559
I just love Saru.

752
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:21.059
I think everything is...

753
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:21.900
God, he's good.

754
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:22.559
Great.

755
00:51:22.860 --> 00:51:29.280
He's terrific too, because he's not the captain and he's, he's, and he's Mr. Saru.

756
00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:38.940
Well, I think that I think that they held off long enough and they just basically had to make the main character a captain and Michael's always been the main character, so he's where we are.

757
00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:48.179
But having him be just wise and kind and all of those things, a little bit unsure of himself.

758
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:52.380
Um, and, you know, a stickler for the rules.

759
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:53.880
I think it's perfect.

760
00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:56.039
He's a really, really good character.

761
00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:58.920
It's just everything about, he's a four-fall, isn't he?

762
00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:01.139
And so...

763
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:07.260
I saw a wonderful picture of him just after he'd shaved his head, ready to go and film series five.

764
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:08.880
All right, I'm ready for go.

765
00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:16.619
That is one thing that this entire cast, they market this show. brilliantly.

766
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:17.940
Yeah.

767
00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:22.860
You know, they clearly love making it and... they let they outside well know that.

768
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:36.960
Yeah, I mean, if this hadn't been so successful, even in its sort of messy early years, we wouldn't have the new Star Trek episode every week thing that we have now, literally every week.

769
00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:41.880
This couldn't be more for me, this, it's an, but an anomaly, a moral dilemma.

770
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.360
It's loads of people standing around in rooms with lots of dialogue.

771
00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:47.280
I mean, this is the perfect discovery episode for me.

772
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:53.880
I think, too, that going forward, I love this set, too, there, but whatever it is.

773
00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:56.579
They had that in Australia as well, didn't they?

774
00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:57.780
Fire.

775
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.619
Yeah, yeah.

776
00:52:58.679 --> 00:52:59.820
And I think there's a fire.

777
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:00.659
I can't remember.

778
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:02.760
The one in lower decks. does it have a fire?

779
00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:03.420
can't remember.

780
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:04.619
It's a beautiful city.

781
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:06.840
I absolutely love this.

782
00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:12.840
It's a similar scene to what O'Brien and Keiko had in that episode we watched where he said, you know, go off Bajor.

783
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:13.860
We'll do this long distance.

784
00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:17.820
But these 2 are so cute and and they're young.

785
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:21.300
And usually when you're young, you're a bit irrational and you don't want to separate.

786
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.880
She just says to her, go, we'll make this work.

787
00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:24.840
You've got do this.

788
00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:25.440
Yeah.

789
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:34.739
I love how she, how, how, Adira gets to say, um, you know, that, that they're scared.

790
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.260
They're adorable. aren't they?

791
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:41.039
I haven't even got the subs on and I'm just bewitched by a pair of them.

792
00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:45.539
She's got a lovely sort of excitable gleam in her idea.

793
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.039
She's...

794
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:48.119
So sweet.

795
00:53:48.179 --> 00:53:49.260
Just sweet.

796
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.539
And uh, yeah.

797
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:53.099
No, I really like both of them.

798
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.519
And I was actually, you know, I was so sad to lose Tilly.

799
00:53:56.579 --> 00:53:58.320
She'll be back later in the season.

800
00:53:58.380 --> 00:54:00.360
So, uh, she's a girlfriend.

801
00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:01.920
Was she off to do a movie or something?

802
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.559
Or was she pregnant?

803
00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:05.159
can't remember.

804
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:07.980
I can't remember, but I think it was personal reasons that shit.

805
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:09.599
Better than purchase.

806
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:11.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

807
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:16.739
And I think that they were talking about trying trying to bring her back for series.

808
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.079
This is one of my favourite scenes.

809
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:21.900
I don't know what's going on between Saru and this Vulcan woman.

810
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.179
Are they still called Vulcan Serena?

811
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:26.519
Yeah, well, she's from Navarre.

812
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:27.539
She's a Vulcan.

813
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.440
But she's from Navarre, which is because the reunification happened.

814
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:35.579
Um, and the planets, she's the president.

815
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:40.500
She's hot for him, but she's so restrained.

816
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:42.059
When he gives her the plot.

817
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.320
She couldn't be more delighted.

818
00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:49.980
It's wonderful because she's restrained just sort of culturally, but she does speak about her emotions and she is lovely.

819
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:55.199
Like, she's a great character and she has been in a beard in series 3 and 4.

820
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:02.820
And Saru is restrained just because he's super polite, but also because he's very unsure of himself as well.

821
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:06.300
But the warmth between them is so delightful.

822
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:07.500
Yes, that's a lovely scene.

823
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.619
Guardian Z from back from Forget Me Not.

824
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.500
We've got him as a kind of semi-regular as well.

825
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:22.619
So they're absolutely building up their own continuity in this you know, future setting. and having a small cast.

826
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:23.940
Oh this is great.

827
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:25.559
The 4 of them hugging.

828
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:26.579
Talk about representation.

829
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:30.599
I mean, that is... a beautiful family unit there.

830
00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:32.159
Yeah.

831
00:55:32.219 --> 00:55:35.460
Oh, and so you say that cares.

832
00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:36.599
What is wrong with you?

833
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:38.940
Mostly.

834
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:41.159
Oh here they go.

835
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:42.360
They're off to cause mischief.

836
00:55:42.420 --> 00:56:00.059
So Taka calls this, this bachelor pad of yours, like describes Book Sheep as a bachelor pad, but I love the wood finish, and it reminds me a little bit of seeing wood on the bridge of Star Trek, the next generation.

837
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:07.139
Oh, Enterprise D. Yeah, but obviously the wood is here because of the planet that book is from.

838
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:14.039
And it's, you know, the only thing left of the planet, really, is this sort of wood finish from the forests of Guajong.

839
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:15.300
It was a lovely effect.

840
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:18.480
It's about melting into the programmable manner thing.

841
00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:19.380
Yeah.

842
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:23.340
I love the fact they're not afraid to go weird with that special effect.

843
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:25.559
Yeah, it's so good.

844
00:56:25.619 --> 00:56:30.840
And, you know, like Star Trek has technical manuals and stuff and oh, here we go.

845
00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:31.619
Would you know what?

846
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:32.880
This is the equivalent.

847
00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:36.360
I remember when Cisco left the baseball behind and you can't say he'll be back.

848
00:56:36.420 --> 00:56:38.579
Well, that's kind of...

849
00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:42.360
Actually, I saw her, where's Grudge?

850
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:44.820
and Zora goes, she's 5 metres away.

851
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.440
And that...

852
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.300
Does he think he's not coming back?

853
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:50.219
That's why he's given another cat.

854
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:51.780
Oh, that's so sad.

855
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.079
And he she says shit.

856
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:55.920
Excellent.

857
00:56:55.980 --> 00:57:05.460
And that thing, where you can just personally transport from place to place instantly in Star Trek now, which I think is really great. the shit comes apart.

858
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:10.079
Yep, the ship's, the, this ship has, discovery has detachable nacelles.

859
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:13.019
Like there's just isn't enough, isn't it, for this show?

860
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:13.739
No.

861
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.500
Well, it's got the, it's, it's the spore drive.

862
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:17.940
It has the spore drive equipped.

863
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.260
And so here we have.

864
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:20.340
Do you know what I mean?

865
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:22.860
That wasn't such a showy ending?

866
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:25.380
It was just like a pivot story.

867
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.440
But it was enticing enough to want you to go on.

868
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:32.880
Like series one, those cliffhangers, they were shot cliffhangers every way, were they, you know?

869
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:36.239
Look at them walking in slow motion in leather.

870
00:57:36.300 --> 00:57:39.840
I know what's going on there. wearing fabulous outfits.

871
00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:42.179
Man, that guy Vance is so hot, I'm telling you.

872
00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:43.320
So hard, isn't it?

873
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:43.920
He's really good.

874
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:45.719
Oh, this was really fun.

875
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:46.619
What's that all about?

876
00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:47.460
She was throwing the coin.

877
00:57:47.519 --> 00:58:08.280
So the next episode, is it the next episode, next episode of the episode after it's called All In, where they actually are trying to get one another and they go to a casino and they basically play poker and it's just, it's so Star Trek in that the entire poker game is about the state of their relationship.

878
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.920
It's really quite fun.

879
00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:14.460
And it's nice to see in the middle of this sort of great crisis.

880
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:18.300
Star Trek still does a sort of cheesy poker game episode, you know.

881
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:28.500
They've perfected that, you know, the kind of what's coming up because the after the pilot of Strange New Worlds, the, this is what you're going to see for the rest of the season, although immediately I haven't watched anymore of them.

882
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:29.340
Yeah, I've only watched one.

883
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:30.300
I will get that.

884
00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:32.460
I know, I will get, I promise you.

885
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:33.360
There's been a lot happening.

886
00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:38.820
Yeah, it was bloody enticing watching that, you know.

887
00:58:39.059 --> 00:58:47.400
Yeah, I, you know, I, I really like it because it is, see, I haven't watched the Orville.

888
00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:50.579
Orville's come back and I kind of feel like it's maybe we don't need it anymore.

889
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:53.340
Oh, I will, though, because I really... all the way.

890
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:58.920
I know, you said, you know, it's it's not Star Trek, and we've got lots of Star Trek, so what's the point?

891
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:02.639
Yeah, it's less good than Star Trek and less funny than lower decks.

892
00:59:02.699 --> 00:59:06.719
I think the visuals on the awful, though. incredible.

893
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:11.159
Like if you want to see good looking TV, Seth McFarlane's making sure that looks bloody good.

894
00:59:11.219 --> 00:59:12.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

895
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.719
Penny Johnson's in it, though, you know.

896
00:59:15.780 --> 00:59:17.280
I don't think she's in this new season.

897
00:59:17.340 --> 00:59:18.119
Oh no, she is.

898
00:59:18.179 --> 00:59:18.960
Oh, is she?

899
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:22.380
Oh, okay. seen her in any of the pictures or the trailers or anything.

900
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.119
I'm pretty sure she is.

901
00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:27.000
I think I saw, I can't remember.

902
00:59:27.059 --> 00:59:29.820
I must, I need to rewatch, I think.

903
00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:34.800
Um, the, oh, my, the, um, yeah.

904
00:59:34.860 --> 00:59:45.239
Anyway, I, I, I think that Strange New Worlds is really properly, solidly enjoyable and super entertaining and incredibly well made.

905
00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:51.599
They just did their 1st weird fantasy episode where all the characters are playing different.

906
00:59:51.659 --> 01:00:02.460
It's like dramatis persona and I only good, where all of the characters are suddenly playing different people in a storybook because of a, you know, omnipotent alien entity.

907
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:05.400
So they're absolutely going, we're Star Trek.

908
01:00:05.460 --> 01:00:15.599
We're not in the least bit embarrassed about our cheesiest kind of conceptions and stuff like that, and they just do it solidly well, like really, really well.

909
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:18.840
But it's still Star Trek.

910
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:28.079
It's still doing sort of standard Star Trek, things, whereas I think Discovery is pushing things further and doing things that are strange.

911
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:47.820
And I can see it kind of taking the Deep Space 9 backseat role where it's the one that's allowed to do really odd, strange things and increase the scale of the storytelling and tell more complex serialised stories while Strange New Worlds is just solidly doing episodes of the week.

912
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:48.360
I think.

913
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:53.460
Well, this, I mean, maybe this episode isn't entirely representative of the season at large.

914
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:55.739
I couldn't tell you that because I haven't seen the rest of it.

915
01:00:55.800 --> 01:01:00.960
I can tell you, I want to see the rest of it on the back of this, and I can't think of it more of an endorsement of this episode.

916
01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:09.780
But I spent the entirety of season one of Discovery in the back of my head, I was going, this is not Star Trek.

917
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:10.800
This is not Star Trek.

918
01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:17.280
Well, I watched this and I was thinking the whole time, this is Star Trek, and it's, and it's bloody good Star Trek at that.

919
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:28.019
Just wait until you get to the end of the, like the last few episodes of this season where it does actual proper science fiction in a way that Star Trek doesn't normally do.

920
01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:31.920
You know, normally it's sort of space opera and crap things and technobabble.

921
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:42.420
But when they meet the 10 C, which they do, like the way that they communicate with them is so complex and so interesting, um, and so well done.

922
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:43.619
It's so well done.

923
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:45.960
And it's slow.

924
01:01:46.019 --> 01:01:59.519
Like there, there are action sequences and beautiful special effects sequences and all sorts of things, but it is just us trying to get to know a new completely incomprehensible alien race, and I've never seen it done as well on Star Trek before.

925
01:01:59.579 --> 01:02:28.920
I want to say to whoever's listening to this podcast that if you are like me, somebody who pushed away from discovery, and I know there are people that, you know, had a bad reaction to it, and it felt as if it, you know, was betraying the Roddenberry ideal, whatever that means, and all of that, what I would say is, from what I've seen of series 3, and this one episode of series 4, is maybe give these 2 seasons a go.

926
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:35.039
Because I think if you're a Star Trek fan who didn't like those early years, this might be more to your taste.

927
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:36.539
Yeah.

928
01:02:36.599 --> 01:03:05.639
And I think it's worth maybe going back and looking at one and two, one in particular, because even though it seems to not be very Star Treky, I think that this version of Star Trek, this whole iteration, this whole sort of Kurtzman era, is much, much more heavily invested in the Federation as a place of, you know, I don't want to say liberal ideas because that's, you know, like neoliberal ideas.

929
01:03:05.699 --> 01:03:16.739
But there is a kind of, there's a strong ethical core that is tacked on a bit, I think, in 90s Star Trek.

930
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:22.199
They've gone back and kind of read that into 60 Star Trek and then they sort of do it.

931
01:03:22.260 --> 01:03:24.480
But this one is absolutely all about that.

932
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:30.000
All of Discovery, all 4 seasons are so much about those ideals.

933
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:38.940
I think the, the, the cynic in me prefers the Star Trek show that deconstructs and possibly abuses that ideal.

934
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:41.340
But I agree with you.

935
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:49.500
I think it is leaning into it intelligently and entertainingly and, you know, that's Star Trek.

936
01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:50.099
Yeah.

937
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:59.940
Like I think that Deep Space 9's attack on liberalism comes from the left in a way and is absolutely necessary.

938
01:04:00.059 --> 01:04:24.360
I think that this is, it's different and it's going out in a completely different political environment and it's, you know, Trump and post-Trump Star Trek, which absolutely has to adhere to its ideals, which are now, as we've seen in the last week or so, really precarious and under considerable threat in modern America.

939
01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:30.119
So I think that Star Trek has things to say about that, which makes me happy.

940
01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:47.579
I think this podcast is, I'm very thankful that we've done this because it's allowing me to see a lot more worth in this whole arm of Star Trek that came later on that I pretty much written off and so bring on more.

941
01:04:51.239 --> 01:05:02.460
All right, it's time for us to hit untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser and pick our Star Trek episode for our next episode.

942
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:05.460
And it's my turn to pick.

943
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:06.179
It is.

944
01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:09.000
It's the less exciting of the turns.

945
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:10.139
Off you go.

946
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:28.619
Well, maybe I again am going to try a thing that I've done before, which is I'm going to pick Star Trek episode from one of the series that I know least well.

947
01:05:28.679 --> 01:05:37.260
And so I am going to go for the original series, the animated series and Enterprise.

948
01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:38.880
Okay.

949
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:40.079
Yeah.

950
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:42.719
Also, it's been a bit of a loving lately.

951
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:44.159
We've...

952
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:45.179
Oh, no, Winnie's saying wrong.

953
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:47.039
Dramatic persona, come on.

954
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:48.239
Something that's terrible.

955
01:05:48.300 --> 01:05:49.559
Yes, that's true.

956
01:05:49.619 --> 01:05:51.360
We did kind of kick that to death.

957
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:52.559
Well, you put enterprise in that.

958
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:53.219
There's a good back.

959
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:54.659
That's right.

960
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:55.619
That's right.

961
01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:56.159
All right.

962
01:05:56.219 --> 01:05:57.119
So here goes.

963
01:05:57.179 --> 01:05:58.079
I'm going to push the button.

964
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:03.119
And it is Star Trek Enterprise.

965
01:06:03.179 --> 01:06:05.940
Series one, episode three.

966
01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:09.360
So the 1st regular episode.

967
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:11.280
After Broken Bow.

968
01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:13.619
No, it's called fight or flight.

969
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.239
It's very boring.

970
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.539
Very boring. press it again.

971
01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:19.800
Oh my god.

972
01:06:19.860 --> 01:06:22.079
So this is an animated series one.

973
01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:24.420
Series one, episode 10, Muds Passion.

974
01:06:24.900 --> 01:06:26.519
A sequel.

975
01:06:26.579 --> 01:06:27.719
Yeah, no.

976
01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:28.440
It's a good show.

977
01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:30.119
That's gotta be agonisingly sexist.

978
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:41.340
Oh, Joe. This is one where you are in print on the internet kicking this one to death.

979
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:45.059
It's season two, episode 14 of Star Trek Enterprise.

980
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:46.079
Stigma.

981
01:06:46.139 --> 01:06:52.860
Oh, my God, this is one of the most offensive episodes of Star Trek.

982
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:54.360
Yes, let's do this.

983
01:06:54.420 --> 01:06:57.480
This will be a provoking episode.

984
01:06:57.539 --> 01:07:10.800
Yeah, well, so normally I'm the one who gets angry, you know, like I was furious at cogenitor and the horrific morality that it embodied just awful.

985
01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:18.119
So normally I'm the one who goes on those political rants, but I've read your rant about this one on Doc Oho.

986
01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:41.880
This is the episode where Brannenbraga and Rick Berman had to have their arms twisted to do HIV themed episode. long after it could have done some good when, do you not, it means Star Trek wasn't on at the height of the, um, the HIV epidemic, but, you know, like, it is, it is such an insulting...

987
01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:43.679
Cowardly episode.

988
01:07:43.739 --> 01:07:56.699
It never once stops to consider the point of view of the person who is suffering and it only considers the point of view of those in power that are trying to stop this.

989
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.260
It's so terrible.

990
01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:59.159
Let's do it.

991
01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:08.099
I think because it is a brave thing to do, and it fails in lots of different ways.

992
01:08:15.059 --> 01:08:26.100
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

993
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:31.319
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

994
01:08:31.380 --> 01:08:36.659
This episode was recorded on the 28th of June 2022 and released on the 1st of July.

995
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:40.800
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise, Stigma.

996
01:09:01.859 --> 01:09:09.479
He was talking about, like, mid, like, sorry, latest award era, Doctor Who. honestly, it was like listening to you on Flight for Entirety Two.

997
01:09:09.539 --> 01:09:10.619
He was saying exactly the same things.

998
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:13.380
What was this?

999
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:13.979
Who was this?

1000
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:14.939
It's on the Blu-ray.

1001
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:20.939
Michael Gray does an interview with all about why he cancelled Doctor Who and his career.

1002
01:09:20.939 --> 01:09:22.619
Oh, for series 22.

1003
01:09:22.619 --> 01:09:23.520
So interesting.

1004
01:09:23.579 --> 01:09:24.720
It is the best thing on there.

1005
01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:32.279
Like, his career is so interesting full stop, but his opinion, like, he said, I had no grudge against Colin Baker.

1006
01:09:32.340 --> 01:09:33.899
I had no grudge against John Nathan Turner.

1007
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:35.640
I just don't think he was producing great work.

1008
01:09:35.699 --> 01:09:43.199
He goes, go and watch one of those stories from that period and tell me if you think that is a responsible use of the license.

1009
01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:45.840
It's a fee.

1010
01:09:45.899 --> 01:09:48.420
I was like, Yeah, does sound like you, you know?

1011
01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:49.500
Actually.

1012
01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:57.180
He just seemed like a very intelligent blow. that believed in his opinion, like that it just wasn't great.

1013
01:09:57.239 --> 01:10:00.659
And he goes, he goes, it's just, why would they even make it?

1014
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.520
They just had no idea what they were doing.

1015
01:10:02.579 --> 01:10:06.060
It was just like, oh, they've always been churning this shit out.

1016
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:06.960
Let's just keep doing it.

1017
01:10:07.020 --> 01:10:10.619
It wasn't only incredibly badly made on the most part.

1018
01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:18.359
Um, he said, but then they tried to um, compensate by making it gratuitously violent.

1019
01:10:18.420 --> 01:10:20.399
He went and that made it look even cheaper.

1020
01:10:20.939 --> 01:10:22.680
Yeah, yeah.

1021
01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:23.760
He wasn't wrong.

1022
01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:26.039
That's great.

1023
01:10:26.100 --> 01:10:27.539
I'm glad they got him.

1024
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:29.880
Well, we'll watch it when you come here. put it on.

1025
01:10:29.939 --> 01:10:30.720
Have a look.

1026
01:10:30.779 --> 01:10:31.680
Yeah, it's really interesting.

1027
01:10:31.739 --> 01:10:33.300
I could have it by then.

1028
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:35.340
My order, my pre-order from...

1029
01:10:35.340 --> 01:10:37.500
Nathan, I don't expect you to watch these Blu-rays, you know.

1030
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:39.420
No, I don't.

1031
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:41.819
I just sit them on my shelf a little bit.

1032
01:10:42.180 --> 01:10:44.159
Yeah, yeah.

1033
01:10:44.220 --> 01:10:46.020
Yeah, yeah.

1034
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:47.340
All right.

1035
01:10:47.340 --> 01:10:47.760
All right.

1036
01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:51.119
Okay.

1037
01:10:51.180 --> 01:10:52.979
Oh, just let me get my.

1038
01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:57.000
I do have the notes because there's a lot of extra characters.

1039
01:10:57.659 --> 01:11:03.720
Yeah, I want to talk about something that weird as a beard, bloody alien prosthetics in this.

1040
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:07.800
Some weird, weird looking fuckers in this, I'm telling you.

1041
01:11:07.859 --> 01:11:12.720
Yeah, but there's no one quite quite Beaumari-ish.

1042
01:11:12.779 --> 01:11:14.520
Like it's a little bit more...

1043
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:15.840
We'll never have the bomar again.

1044
01:11:15.899 --> 01:11:16.800
More as the pee.

1045
01:11:16.859 --> 01:11:18.479
No, yeah.

1046
01:11:18.659 --> 01:11:20.159
All right.