WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:08:34

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back this week with another episode of Star Trek

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Discovery.

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And I have to say that with Strange New Worlds being on at the

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moment.

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I'm watching that every week and really enjoying it.

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And I'd kind of, it was risking displacing discovery in my

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affections, I think.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I think that it's because it is just relentlessly fun and it's

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really episodic and really straightforward.

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And so watching this again last night, it was kind of a bit of a

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well, it led to a bit of a course correction because I think

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discovery is really great, and I'm glad that Strange New Worlds

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exists, but I'm glad it's not the only Star Trek that we have.

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I went into this with a great deal of trepidation because I have

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not watched any of season 4 of Discovery.

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And this is the mid-season, or is it the mid-season break point?

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I was at the risk of not understanding what was going on at

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all.

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And I was incredibly pleasantly surprised by what I watched

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because this felt so 90s trek to me.

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It was untrue. don't get me wrong.

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This is clearly Kursman Trek, and there's a heavy reliance on

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sentiment in this episode, which I don't think is really there in

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90 Street.

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But, boy, oh, boy, was there a lot of people standing around in

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rooms pontificating in this.

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Oh, they're absolutely over the moon.

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So yeah, one of the differences is, I think, that the rooms

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generally look better, and they have reflective surfaces.

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They have plenty of reflection.

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Every single one I could just see your face in now, you know?

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It was so great.

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I just think, you know, the baseline of how discovery and strange

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new worlds look is so much higher than 90s trek and that even

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though there's nothing, even though there's no sort of real

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massive special effect shots, I guess there's books, ship, leaving

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at the end of the episode and some establishing shots.

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Any action in this at all?

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none of the cruxes that I've come to expect or the things that I

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complain about with discovering.

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The camera work was, I wouldn't say it was sedate, but it was

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quite leisurely compared to, you know, those drones zapping about

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all over the place.

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You're right, there wasn't any extreme special effects or overlong

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action sequences.

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This was all about relationships, big ideas and politics.

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It was really interesting.

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Yeah, I think so too.

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And there will be action sequences and there have been earlier in

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the season, and this is very much a kind of episode where we stop

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and take stock and then establish the stakes and set up the 2

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sides going forward.

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And as is typical of Kurtzman Trek, kind of federation ideals are

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in the foreground.

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And there's a difference of opinion about those ideals.

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And it's a similar situation to what we've had in other Kurtzman

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shows, where some huge disaster.

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Uh, like whether it's, you know, the Klingon war in the series one

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of discovery or, um, the attack on Mars in Picard series one, which

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you know, leads the Federation to kind of question its ideals.

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And and discovery is so explicitly about that because we're in the

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future rebuilding the federation after its destruction.

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We'll get to it later in the episode.

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I think that sort of federation ideals uh angle is both a curse

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and a blessing in this.

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It's a curse because it leads to a very predictable 2nd plot.

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But it's a blessing because it reinstates them in a really kind of

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beautiful way.

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Do you know what this really isn't?

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This show has mutated so far away from what it was in series one.

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I don't even recognise it being the same show, apart from a few

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key characters.

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So I think it is the same show, but I think it's a show that is.

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Because it doesn't start life as a Star Trek show, but it starts

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life as a show set in the Star Trek universe.

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You've got people coming in going all the time.

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So, for instance, you'll have noticed Tilly is only in this in a

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flashback, uh, because she leaves early on in series 4 and those

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people we were talking about last time like Ash, you know, he

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doesn't last past series too.

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So you've got to cast that rotates and you've got different people

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in the opening credits every week.

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And that's interesting.

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You know, Trek doesn't usually do that, does it?

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No, to the point of kind of being unrealistic, where you have

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people just doing the same jobs, everyone does the same job.

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And every now and again, they get a bit of focus.

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Yeah, yeah, or Deep Space and Iron, you know, where the Cardassian

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government gets overthrown and surprised you can't still hear.

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So, so there's that.

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No, no, but this this has become a Star Trek show.

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It wasn't in series one.

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It was a show set in the Star Trek universe.

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This felt 100% a Star Trek show when I watched this.

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Which difference is the, that what this one does.

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Whereas Strange 2 Worlds is let's go to a new strange planet every

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week.

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It's in the title and we'll do a fun thing.

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This one has one problem that raises its head at the end of

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episode one and is finally resolved at the end of episode 13 and

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it takes a whole year to do it a whole season to do it.

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And it has a bigger scale because it's also about the Federation.

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And so it's a little bit more like the Star Trek movies were back

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in the day.

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You know how like the Star Trek movies when they come along really

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just open up the scale, you learn more about the Federation and

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stuff from those Star Trek movies.

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And here I think there's that.

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And so, so I think we need strange new worlds to do the explore

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new life, a new civilisations thing, and then discovery gets to do

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something bigger.

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This is doing more like, well, D-space 9 does.

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It's all these empires coming together and discussing the fate of

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you know, some big, big problem that's happening at the right.

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And you know what?

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I love DS9, so I'm all there for that.

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What I think.

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Okay, you know me, I'm always going to have a problem and my

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biggest problem with this, and I really like this.

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This is my favourite discovery that we've watched so far was I

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think the show has lost a bit of its bite.

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No, Philippa.

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In series one, it was quite risky.

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It was kind of quite violent.

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It was doing shock twists.

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It wasn't really doing Star Trek type things.

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Whereas it's kind of gone in the other direction now, and every

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single member of this cast, and I think the characterisation is

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very strong, and we'll talk about this in the episode, because I

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think Stamet, Saru.

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I forget the what's his name, Michael Quinn.

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What does he play?

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What's his name?

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David Coenberg, plays COVID, Dr. Kovich?

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amazingly good.

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But they're all kind of nice.

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Everyone's lovely.

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You know, you haven't got a George.

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You haven't got a, what was the alternative universe?

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Captain in series one.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Captain, like Jason Isaac.

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You haven't got a Garak or a Ducat.

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Everyone is kind of lovely.

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And I'm not saying that's boring, but I don't know, it does make

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it a little plainer than it perhaps could be.

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I actually, you know, I think that that's true, and I think that

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we do miss something by not having, well, you know, any Star Trek

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show would be vastly improved by making Cousin Michelle, a member

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of the semi-regular cars or occurring cars because she's awesome.

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Garak or any one of those people, you know.

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But, um, you know, this is uh, a Star Trek show being made kind of

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while America is on the brink of dumping democracy and going with

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Christo fascism.

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So I think it seems more urgent than previous iterations of Star

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Trek when it comes to politics.

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And it's very keen to portray Starfling.

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You think in this one?

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Yeah, look at this.

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It's all about.

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It's all about how connection is the important thing.

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When we did forget me not, remember it was all about belonging and

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connection and every aspect of the plot and the way the story was

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told was about reconnecting with something, whether it was

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reconnecting with the federation or reconnecting with the trill or

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even kind of reconnecting with the tile symbient. to myself.

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Well, we watched the last one where they were like, right, we're

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going to contact all the races we're going to try and bring the

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federation together, and this is half a season later.

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And I was like, well, they seem to have done a good job of that.

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Everyone's in the same room talking, you know?

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But you noticed that a lot of the people hadn't joined the

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Federation and they were just calling out things.

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They've got 40 worlds or 60 worlds or something in the federation

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now and earth hasn't rejoined.

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You know, like, I feel like in DS9, when you had those sort of

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conversations, I felt like, right, one wrong move and 1000000s of

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people are going to die.

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Like this is going to have severe consequences to people.

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Whereas I felt like here, they were discussing.

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What are they?

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What is the DMA?

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Yeah, so the DMA.

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That's the thing, because the DMA is a massive and normally light

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years across, which is just destroying planet after planet and has

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obviously destroyed Book's home planet equation.

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Is it effectively doing the same thing as like the flux in Doctor

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Who?

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Yeah, it was a bit fluxy.

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It was, well, except it's got a sort of clearly defined role and

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does something predictable.

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They probably need somewhere as well and as consequences

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somewhere.

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But it's a little bit more like the sort of weird alien entities

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that sort of turn up in various Star Trek films like one and four

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you know, it's a big thing that's coming and it's just hoovering

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up planets, we don't know what it's doing.

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And at this point, they know that the species 10 C is

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responsible.

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They know it's been created rather than just a natural

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phenomenon.

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Yeah, you know, talk about making it Star Trek.

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It's about a massive fucking anomaly that's tearing up the

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universe.

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So much so that it even breaks the Star Trek rule that each

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episode needs a different title.

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And so episode 2 of this season is called Anomaly, which shadows

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the name of an episode of series 3 of Enterprise.

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They love breaking the rules of the titles, and they are breaking

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the unification number 3 and all of that.

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Yeah, yeah.

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All the various amuck time titles.

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Before we go, I want to say something massively positive, because

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I felt in the 1st season, a lot of those characters were a bit

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nebulous and they took a long time to find their feet.

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I thought the characterisation of the regulars in this was so

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razor sharp.

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Like they know who these characters are and they know how to write

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for them extremely well.

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And there were scenes where you were getting very kind of

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different opposing opinions and everyone was making their

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arguments, so crystal clear.

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I was like, this is fabulous drama, and it's people just talking

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very calmly in a room.

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It was great.

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I think these regulars are on fire at this point.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think they're pretty great.

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Well, we could watch him.

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We could.

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Let's do that.

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I've got my finger hovering over the play button, so I will count

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to see.

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Don't ever be around, Nathan, you know, on discovery.

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It's really good.

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You should watch series 4.

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I think I am suitably intrigued after watching this episode.

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All right, here goes five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

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We are off.

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CBS studio production.

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Yeah, it doesn't have the, uh, there's gray.

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He's got a synth body now so everyone can see him.

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That was like a very small subplot in this, wasn't it?

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The...

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Yeah.

249
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.019
Great dimensions.

250
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

251
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:49.980
And there was a little, well, we'll get it.

252
00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:53.220
There was a lovely scene between Stammets and Culba and the 2

253
00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:54.600
lovers.

254
00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:58.679
And it's like one great, big, lovely family saying goodbye.

255
00:12:58.740 --> 00:12:59.820
It was really sweet.

256
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.820
So we're getting the DMA explained to us here and we saw that shot

257
00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:08.220
of it swallowing up planets, which I think is a pretty great

258
00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:08.759
shot.

259
00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:11.340
Has it been a mystery to this point?

260
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.200
you still don't know anything about it.

261
00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:14.039
Yeah.

262
00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:16.679
So I think it turns up to the end of episode one.

263
00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:20.700
And we have discovered it's artificial at this point, but we don't

264
00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:21.539
know anything about it.

265
00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:25.320
And obviously, Discovery's undergone something pretty terrible at

266
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.740
the end of the previous episode, which they barely survived.

267
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:32.399
It's a really good ending, actually, with, it's just Michael and

268
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:33.779
Zora on the bridge.

269
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.460
Did you see that special effects shot there?

270
00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:40.379
That's already making it more expensive than any episode of Ninest

271
00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:40.679
Trek.

272
00:13:40.740 --> 00:13:42.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

273
00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:45.960
But even this, you know, the way the displays are all holograms.

274
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.519
I think is really terrific and something that happened right at

275
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.700
the beginning of discovery, even when it was said in the 23rd

276
00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:54.000
century.

277
00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:57.299
Who is voicing Zorro?

278
00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:59.519
Because that is a great vocal performance.

279
00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:01.919
It's actually really good.

280
00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:07.139
So Zora was definitely in, um, in Forget Me Not.

281
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:10.559
You remember the scene at the end where she advises Saru to show

282
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:15.059
them a film and they watch a film together and it's that vocal

283
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:15.480
performance.

284
00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:17.940
And so the computer's voice starts changing.

285
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:22.620
And I think the 1st time we see Zora is in a short trek called

286
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:24.059
Calypso.

287
00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:28.379
And so she's just gradually been coming on.

288
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.840
And I think they've done a really good job playing the long game

289
00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:34.919
and they throw away the fact that she's called herself Zora.

290
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:39.000
It's just happens in a, you know, captain's log by Michael, I

291
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:39.179
think.

292
00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:44.580
But has something happened to make, like, has she come into

293
00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:45.240
contact with something?

294
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:50.039
No, so at the end of series 2, Discovery encounters a thing or in

295
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.440
the middle of series 2, Discovery encounters a thing called the

296
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:57.179
sphere, which is a big computer database, and it takes the sphere

297
00:14:57.179 --> 00:15:03.360
data on board, and the sphere data becomes part of the, um, the

298
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:03.779
ship.

299
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.419
And one of the reasons they have to jump into the future is to

300
00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:10.320
prevent themselves falling into the hands of control, which gets a

301
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.779
mention here, which is...

302
00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:14.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

303
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:18.299
But the idea that Zora has gained sentience.

304
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.279
Has that been hinted at before this?

305
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:23.580
Well, yeah, it's been coming on the whole time.

306
00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.100
You know, she starts to speak like this.

307
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.340
You know, she doesn't sound like a computer.

308
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:34.320
Um, even though computers just sound like normal people on this

309
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.820
version of Star Trek.

310
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.580
She has a very different kind of inflection.

311
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.460
I think it is a good performance because it sells the, I'm not

312
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:42.899
just a normal computer thing.

313
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:44.940
Well, the thing was right.

314
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:50.759
When this pre-toxic was here and Zora said, no, I'm not going to

315
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.279
give you the coordinates, boom straight into the credits.

316
00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:55.559
I was like, okay, I've seen this before.

317
00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:56.820
I know how this is gonna go.

318
00:15:56.940 --> 00:16:00.240
There's a DS9 episode where a computer program comes along and

319
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.419
O'Brien's trying to outfox it for an entire episode and then he

320
00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:05.039
puts it into a little puppy pen at the end.

321
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.259
And it was going to be something like that where they were going

322
00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:08.340
to have to outfox her.

323
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.000
What actually happens is it becomes this massive treatise on

324
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.159
identity and sentience.

325
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.019
There's so much more interesting than that.

326
00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:17.279
Yeah.

327
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:21.299
Well, it's it's it's trekking what's going on in the main plot.

328
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.600
It's we've encountered a new life form that we don't understand

329
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:27.000
that maybe a threat to us.

330
00:16:27.059 --> 00:16:28.679
What do we do with it?

331
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.740
And do we destroy it?

332
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:32.700
Do we lock it up?

333
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.940
Do we, you know, try and destroy the DMA?

334
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:41.580
Do we lock sore up and they're the same kind of thing. where it

335
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:48.659
felt the most 90s track was when she creates the failsafe that you

336
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:49.980
can destroy me about it.

337
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.679
And then that felt like one of those 90s treks, moral dilemma

338
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.200
episodes, like Tubix or something like that, where they have to

339
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.960
ponder the consequences of whether they use this thing or not.

340
00:16:58.019 --> 00:16:59.580
It was great.

341
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:00.720
It was really great.

342
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:02.759
Well, yeah, obviously, we'll get there.

343
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:04.619
So Anna Bay aside, that's not acceptable.

344
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:05.819
We're not doing that.

345
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.740
You know, the FoulSafe doesn't solve the problem. because we're

346
00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:13.319
not going to wipe you off. for the ones that come in and say this

347
00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:14.039
is wrong as well.

348
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:17.279
And Hugh as well, to be fair, Hugh does too.

349
00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:19.680
I thought he was...

350
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:20.339
He's great.

351
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.319
I thought he was kind of the weakest characterised.

352
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:23.579
He didn't really have that much.

353
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:29.700
So he's had a fair bit going on this season as well, I think, and

354
00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:33.660
has a relationship with book. not a sexual relationship, but a

355
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:36.420
professional relationship with book, is moving into the

356
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:40.140
rollership's counsellor a bit as well as being a medical.

357
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:41.579
Oh, because Stamic says that, doesn't he?

358
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.019
I'm living with a counsellor.

359
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:44.940
So you pick up some things eventually.

360
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.960
But I've got to say, Stamets has never been better than he is here

361
00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:50.339
really good in this.

362
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.240
He must have seen his script and been like, oh, amazing.

363
00:17:54.599 --> 00:18:01.259
So Dr. Kovic here is so great because he's absolutely lacking in

364
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:02.279
any warmth at all.

365
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.240
He's slightly threatening and odd looking.

366
00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:09.539
So he debriefs them when they come from the future.

367
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:13.440
So I think he's in like episode 2 of series 3 and we see him

368
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.440
interviewing various people from the crew.

369
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:17.160
Yeah.

370
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.880
And so he's always been a sort of slightly odd figure and he is

371
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.200
very he's very smart and he is very federation, as we'll discover

372
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.819
in this episode, but we don't know which way he's going to go.

373
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:34.259
And I think we have been trained by years of Star Trek to expect

374
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:39.779
that he is going to, you know, delete the Zora, uh, entity

375
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.779
whatever she is, or is going to kind of extract her.

376
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.500
And later on, we discover that, in fact, he was going to extract

377
00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:49.799
Paul, if he couldn't cope with...

378
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:50.940
I really love that moment.

379
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.180
And bull times around and goes, and so you should, doesn't he?

380
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:55.619
That was the right call.

381
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.019
Yeah, it was great.

382
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:58.619
Really great.

383
00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:00.059
Talk about dangerous casting.

384
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.940
But they, I mean, it worked, didn't it?

385
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:03.480
It really worked.

386
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:04.319
Yeah, yeah.

387
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:08.339
I suppose he is, he is our dangerous character in this now.

388
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.079
He's our sort of itchy character.

389
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:11.819
Yeah, yeah.

390
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:13.500
Yeah, I think so.

391
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:20.220
So this, this is where most of the B plot or the A plot, I don't

392
00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:20.339
know.

393
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.000
I think they're both equal, but most most of when one of the A

394
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.000
plots is going to take place, which is in this conference room on

395
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.500
in Federation headquarters.

396
00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:33.599
And they have this room which, you know, is beautifully lit and

397
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.839
has reflective surfaces and I think is beautifully designed.

398
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:43.559
But it's a very cheap way of realising this massive for discovery

399
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:44.339
it really is.

400
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.319
And actually, do you know, I thought the lighting was a little bit

401
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:48.059
dreary here, if I'm honest.

402
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:48.960
A bit subdue.

403
00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:51.240
It reminded me of my bloody shock that I work in, all tube

404
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:51.960
lighting everywhere.

405
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:53.640
Yeah, yeah.

406
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:58.140
I just like the blueness of the set and the reflective surface, so

407
00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:59.460
I'm absolutely here for all of those.

408
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.579
And so it looks ultra modern...

409
00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:03.720
This lady here.

410
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.180
The sort of, uh, riches on her head.

411
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.700
Again, I'm getting 90s vibes, you know?

412
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.759
President Relax.

413
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:15.359
She's clearly part human and she says that her mother was from

414
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:23.940
Earth, but she also has Bajoran and Cardassian in her ancestry and

415
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:25.259
she's sad.

416
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.240
And that's absolutely.

417
00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:30.359
So one of the interesting things about her is that she's a

418
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:34.859
politician and so, and her and Michael do butt heads, because, you

419
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:38.220
know, when she's on board the ship, Michael's in charge, but she's

420
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:40.079
still the president of the federation.

421
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.259
But having her...

422
00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:44.640
So go on.

423
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.640
Well, what's happening with the Bajorans and the Kardassians, then

424
00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.019
that you can have a...

425
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:56.400
We see a we see a Cardassian in at this conference, but but I

426
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.480
think that's super telling that she represents that makes her

427
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.839
represent the Federation as a group of people who come to it. the

428
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:04.680
hell did I not spot?

429
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.119
That wasn't the spoon and the ridges.

430
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:06.900
Honestly.

431
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:07.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

432
00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:13.079
So, so what they've done here, and I think it's really good, is

433
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:17.579
that we get a few shots looking down this sort of giant tube, and

434
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:20.220
so we discover it's a massive, massive conference.

435
00:21:20.339 --> 00:21:21.660
Yeah, here.

436
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.619
It's this shop where we go over the lip of the thing and we go

437
00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:28.740
down and we see just that there are dozens and dozens of people

438
00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:33.299
here or watching it on a screen and it looks fantastic.

439
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.420
That's a beautiful shot. don't see that shot.

440
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.619
We'll see much of it.

441
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.440
Now we're just getting about, we see about 10 people, you know

442
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.460
like...

443
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.319
So you know, they stab the budgetary thing.

444
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:43.799
It's enough.

445
00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:44.339
Yeah.

446
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.660
I think it's an ingenious way of selling the scale of it without

447
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:51.599
having to put lots of extras into every shot.

448
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:57.299
But this, let's be frank, this is the cheapie of the year, isn't

449
00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:57.420
it?

450
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.359
Like, they are not doing anything extraordinarily ambitious

451
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.039
visually in this episode.

452
00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:04.140
Hot Vulcan, hot Vulcan.

453
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.180
I love the Orion.

454
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:07.619
After that makeup was amazing.

455
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.819
Yeah, she's pretty awesome.

456
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.140
The Orians, man.

457
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.299
They love the Orions in Kurtzman Trek, don't they?

458
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.779
Yeah, well, I think they should.

459
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.880
They like the Andorians a bit too.

460
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.220
There's an Andorian a little bit later too.

461
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.339
And unlike the animated series, these Orion's actually wear

462
00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:24.059
clothes.

463
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.019
Yes.

464
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:26.819
Oh, there's a hot trill there as well.

465
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:30.900
I'm not sure about the the woman with the Thunderbirds hat.

466
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:31.920
That's a very odd.

467
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:33.359
Yeah, so she's from Earth.

468
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:39.960
We met her very early on in series 3 and she is in charge of earth

469
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:44.759
military and she will not vote for peaceful 1st contact.

470
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:49.799
Earth has become, um, isolationist.

471
00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:50.460
Wow.

472
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:55.019
Yeah, and and paranoid. they go back there And they discover the

473
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:56.640
Federation's not welcome or anything like that.

474
00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.039
But what is this sort of quorum?

475
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:01.440
Like, if this isn't the Federation?

476
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:02.099
What is this?

477
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:08.099
So Relax explains that there are like 60 worlds in the federation

478
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:10.019
who are all represented here.

479
00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:14.640
But because this is a threat that, um, all the powers in it?

480
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:15.900
encompasses everyone.

481
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:18.240
Yeah, they've invited everyone.

482
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.859
And not just how, so there's a guy there who's got like white skin

483
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:27.299
and white pupils and is wearing a sort of white outfit and he

484
00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:31.920
appears in the 1st scene of series 4 where Michael and book turn

485
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:36.660
up on a planet to offer dilithium to them for free for help.

486
00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:41.819
They get a hostile response from them, but they give them the

487
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:44.039
dilithium anyway and win them over.

488
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.960
And so having them here, voting alongside the federation.

489
00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:52.559
It's kind of like our job, our way of reconstructing the

490
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.940
Federation is offering help, of being kind of trying to make

491
00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:57.720
connections.

492
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:01.619
And so that scene to have worked here, which I think is... you

493
00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:01.799
what.

494
00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:06.480
Pushing this show, post-Voyager, was a smart move because

495
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.339
everything's up for craps, isn't it?

496
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.420
Yeah.

497
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:13.140
Oh, can I just say this scene here where Stammets came in and said

498
00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:14.519
come on, let's have a hard group.

499
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.339
And he's playing music because he's trying to distract Zora.

500
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:18.779
I thought it was hilarious.

501
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.119
Because I'll tell you what, this was a pretty serious episode

502
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:21.839
overall.

503
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.960
Yeah, yeah.

504
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:25.440
No.

505
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.960
Are you ill or something?

506
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:28.740
Are you feeling all right?

507
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:34.440
Neither of this pair look like they're in for like group hugs, you

508
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:34.680
know?

509
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:35.880
Yeah, yeah.

510
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:39.660
Well, I mean, we do have the massive group hug at the end in a

511
00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:39.960
sense.

512
00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:44.279
I mean, that is where this plot is going to lead, is to a giant

513
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:48.960
kind of, you know, she's become sentient through the power of

514
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:49.559
love.

515
00:24:49.619 --> 00:24:53.220
The joy of that vocal performance for Zora was.

516
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.099
It was very flat and monotonous.

517
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:57.599
It measured, isn't it?

518
00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:59.160
got hints of emotion in it.

519
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:00.180
It's so clever.

520
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:01.259
Do you know who that is?

521
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.180
She's no, no.

522
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.140
She's superb in the end of the previous episode.

523
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:12.000
Like her, because she's quite scared, I think, Zora in the

524
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.059
previous episode and it's a really terrific performance.

525
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.839
So the actor is called Annabelle Wallace.

526
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.420
Annabelle Wallace, I salute you.

527
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.759
Yeah, she's really great.

528
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:25.200
She's so good.

529
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:28.980
She was in Peaky Blinders.

530
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.400
In series one of Discovery.

531
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:35.579
I felt Stamitz was like obtuse.

532
00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:37.380
Annoyingly so.

533
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:42.240
In this, I felt as if he was just offering such an intelligent

534
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:43.740
dissenting voice.

535
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:47.279
I was like, no, I agree with you, you know?

536
00:25:47.339 --> 00:25:52.559
But in the last episode that we did, which was magic to make the

537
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.279
sanest man go mad, where he was sort of a bit weird and a bit drug

538
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:58.680
fucked because he was hilarious.

539
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.900
That was his interfacing with...

540
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:01.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

541
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:03.180
He was great in that.

542
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.019
And I think just making him a bit jolly and a bit kind of more

543
00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:12.299
relaxed works rather than him being a sort of prickly asshole

544
00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:14.700
which he is at the beginning of series one.

545
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.599
I just feel like he's really grown into like character.

546
00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:20.460
Mm, he's really good.

547
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:23.880
I think he should have got a Hugh helps, I think, having someone

548
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:28.980
who is nicer than him as his partner, someone that he kind of

549
00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:29.880
learns from.

550
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:33.000
I was just absolutely flawed.

551
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.299
When Zora offed up like the dead man switch, I was flawed by that

552
00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:36.960
twist.

553
00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:39.180
I was like, I didn't see that coming a mile off, you know.

554
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.619
And it's such a smart solution.

555
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.819
And then that just provoked so much conversation after that.

556
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.460
And it is just people in a room, isn't it?

557
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.539
Yeah, yeah.

558
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:54.240
This future, too, where we don't bat an eyelid when a device just

559
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.359
appears on the table, and we're told it does something, because

560
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:02.220
the technology, like they've done a really good job in selling

561
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:06.299
sort of 900 and therapies, it just appears on the table there, and

562
00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:07.440
we're okay with it.

563
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.819
It looks like a fancy ashtray.

564
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.099
I know you've never said anything to the contrary.

565
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:16.920
And I know you love the spectacle in discovery and Kurtzman Trek.

566
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:21.660
But this does prove that that 90 strikes formula of just talking

567
00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:24.660
in a room can be really great television.

568
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

569
00:27:26.819 --> 00:27:30.480
But what this does and what 90s trek rarely does is make it

570
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.779
visually interesting and it's partly because we've got more money

571
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:36.420
available and stuff.

572
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:42.900
And also I think that the acting is different in style.

573
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.119
So where is more naturalistic now.

574
00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:48.960
It's less stilted and less presentational.

575
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:51.119
As you said, the dialogue is less stilted.

576
00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:54.180
So, yeah, this guide.

577
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.299
That's the butterfly guy, the guy with the white skin who was

578
00:27:57.299 --> 00:27:58.079
talking just then.

579
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:59.759
Oh, was that a Cardassian there?

580
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.039
Yeah, there's a Cardassian there.

581
00:28:02.099 --> 00:28:03.359
That's weird, slightly weird.

582
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.099
So this fellow here, the book goes off with in the end, who's he?

583
00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:15.960
So he is, he's been in it before, and he worked with Asyra at the

584
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:17.039
end of series three.

585
00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:17.940
Remember Simon?

586
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:21.660
Not that evil bitch that...

587
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.640
Oh, yes, she was great, wasn't she?

588
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:25.200
over the top.

589
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:32.039
We have just had a superb, similar character in Strange New Worlds

590
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:34.859
recently who was just magnificent.

591
00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:37.079
In an episode called The Serene Squall.

592
00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:40.680
Just a complete side note. without giving anything away.

593
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:44.700
Can I just ask you, does a character from one of the Star Trek

594
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:49.079
movies, a much derided Star Trek movie turn up in Strange New

595
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:49.380
Worlds?

596
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:50.400
Yeah.

597
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.480
Oh, Marvellous.

598
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:57.660
I think he's going to be the big bad at the end of the season. so

599
00:28:57.660 --> 00:28:58.019
excited.

600
00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:00.960
That is so fucking curseman Trek, I'm telling you, to take that

601
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:01.380
character.

602
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.539
So with this plot here, right?

603
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:08.039
Where we're going to go outside the galaxy and the galactic

604
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:13.920
barrier exists from where no man has gone before, the 2nd episode

605
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:15.420
of Star Trek.

606
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.039
They have the Galactic Barrier.

607
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:22.680
Even though it's shitty and like a kind of stupid idea, there's

608
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.980
kind of like we're modern Star Trek, we love the shitty things in

609
00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:29.099
original Star Trek, and we're going to make them work, and that's

610
00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:30.420
what's happening here, I think.

611
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.259
Massive budget.

612
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:35.400
What's his objection to the, to this anomaly, then, this user

613
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:35.759
anomaly.

614
00:29:35.819 --> 00:29:37.740
Why does he, why is he so determined to destroy it?

615
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:44.220
So it becomes clear, and he gives a big speech, and I think that

616
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:48.000
despite the fact, like he's a very smart man, and he's

617
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.440
technologically really capable, and he thinks that he can use the

618
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:58.680
thing in the inside the DMA, there's a device that creates and

619
00:29:58.680 --> 00:29:59.339
directs it.

620
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.579
He thinks he can use that to launch himself into another

621
00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:03.539
universe.

622
00:30:03.539 --> 00:30:08.099
And it's another universe where his friend is that he eventually

623
00:30:08.099 --> 00:30:11.339
ends up kind of saying is like heaven.

624
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.599
It's he describes it here as a universe where there was no burn.

625
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:20.880
Um, you know, where, you know, bad things don't happen.

626
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:25.140
And so they were talking about him being from like an

627
00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:25.740
alternative.

628
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:26.880
I was like what's this all about?

629
00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.940
He calls it home, but he's not from there.

630
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.079
He is from Risa.

631
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:38.339
And he, um, He, we see in, in an episode called The Galactic

632
00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:39.240
Barrier, I think.

633
00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:44.339
We see his backstory and he was locked up trying to work on

634
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:45.720
something for Asira.

635
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.660
Another scientist comes along.

636
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:53.759
He's male, he's an alien, and the 2 of them seem to do something

637
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.079
like fall in love.

638
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.339
Maybe.

639
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.940
You know, like their relationship is very kind of intimate and

640
00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:04.319
physical and he's lost that guy.

641
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.799
He escapes and leaves him, that guy behind.

642
00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:12.480
And he thinks that guy who's called Oros, I think, makes it into

643
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.359
this heaven dimension, he was looking for, and so he's trying to

644
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:16.079
go there as well.

645
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:20.640
But in a way, he's there for a bit of a religious fanatic.

646
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:25.140
And I think that that's the way he's going...

647
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.059
Is that how he's depicted going on?

648
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.839
Yeah, not very explicitly, like he's not a ranty frothy of the

649
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:31.500
mouth, kind of.

650
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:33.119
He's still very rational.

651
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.880
He's a pretty competing argument because I feel like books are

652
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:38.640
very intelligent character for him to go off him at the end of the

653
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:38.880
episode.

654
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:44.279
Yeah, but but I think that that he's not where, he's not where

655
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:46.740
that point of view is located, book is.

656
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.180
And so yeah, and he makes his argument in this, doesn't he?

657
00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:55.380
Do you know what I think is really incredibly good?

658
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.579
is that you've got this giant galactic scale where you've got 100s

659
00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:02.220
of delegates whom you see occasionally.

660
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:02.880
There's some there.

661
00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:08.039
But it is essentially... as a beard, I'm telling you.

662
00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:11.039
There's a lot of aliens from their friend in story, honestly.

663
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:16.920
Yeah, or you know, they're sort of a Star Warsness to some of them

664
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.779
you know, where they've got big heads or whatever.

665
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:22.259
They're not just sort of people with kind of strategically applied

666
00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:25.380
latex, Americans with strategically applied latex.

667
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.039
But what happens is that conflict ends up playing out with our 2

668
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:31.740
main characters is the...

669
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.359
I want to draw your attention to that.

670
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:37.019
Because I feel as if that needed to happen within that blob.

671
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.640
I said to you before we recorded.

672
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:41.759
I think it was our foregone conclusion that we were going to

673
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.700
always have 1st contact with this thing and not destroy it.

674
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:47.039
So there's got to be some conflict within that.

675
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:51.720
And that part of it is played really well because I love the fact

676
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:56.579
that he makes his speech and then she says, does anyone have an

677
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:58.920
opposing view and Burnham obviously does.

678
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:00.900
But she doesn't want to say anything.

679
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:01.559
Yeah.

680
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.000
That was a great moment.

681
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:07.140
And then her reaction to his speech, because she's seen him

682
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:07.740
grieving.

683
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:12.000
There's a whole episode where, like, it's so beautifully done

684
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.980
where he's tethered to the ship and is going in towards the

685
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:22.259
anomaly as close as he can and it's a symbol of his grief.

686
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:26.099
It's like, he's just got, he's just connected to Michael by the

687
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:27.960
slightest thread.

688
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:32.519
And if that breaks, if that thread breaks, does he end up trying

689
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.299
to destroy himself just out of grief and survivor's guilt?

690
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:41.640
And so it's a space problem that solved using a weird metaphor

691
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:43.980
about books grief.

692
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:48.660
And so we sympathise with him, you know, like he's right in all

693
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:52.920
sorts of ways. 1000000000s of people will die if this thing

694
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:53.819
continues.

695
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:59.759
And so by placing the opposition to federation ideals in a

696
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:00.539
sympathetic character.

697
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.759
I think we need the...

698
00:34:02.819 --> 00:34:06.779
But like when we're going for that kind of tedious voting process

699
00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:10.860
where we know this is, yeah, we know we know where the numbers are

700
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:11.340
going to fall.

701
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:12.059
That's quite nice.

702
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.820
And I've got to say, ever since I've seen all these, you know

703
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:21.420
fabulous holographic consoles, my keyboard seems very old

704
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:22.079
fashioned now, do you know?

705
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:23.579
I'm one of them.

706
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.119
But what I really loved was then the 2nd that he clearly lost.

707
00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:30.840
She was desperate to go to him and then the woman stepped in and

708
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:32.400
said, I need you.

709
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.679
I need discovery to lead this, like you can't.

710
00:34:34.739 --> 00:34:38.820
And that's essentially why he gets away at the end because he goes

711
00:34:38.820 --> 00:34:41.460
straight back to his quarters and buggers off.

712
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:45.900
But she, he also says, no, we're done.

713
00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:50.460
Because remember, um, the cat speech, but I'm assuming this cat

714
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:51.179
means a lot to him.

715
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:56.039
Oh, and the sign the sign says, I love you, Michael. after my

716
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:56.460
girl.

717
00:34:56.579 --> 00:34:57.840
Yeah.

718
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.360
Are you holding back tears there?

719
00:35:00.420 --> 00:35:04.019
I think, yeah, I think this works so well because I actually find

720
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:06.900
this relationship really strong.

721
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

722
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:10.619
It's so mature, isn't it?

723
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.260
It's not like Delaney sisters.

724
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.440
Imagine, yeah, think of some of those romances in 90s straight.

725
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.000
It's the odd one.

726
00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:20.579
We love Cisco and Casting and things like that, but they're few

727
00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:21.300
and far between.

728
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.079
Yeah, yeah.

729
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:24.360
But it's almost a problem, isn't it?

730
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:26.519
There is there's a maturity to that relationship as well.

731
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:28.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

732
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.940
But it's kind of sexy as well.

733
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.679
He's so hot.

734
00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:36.119
And she's beautiful, you know, like the two, these 2 incredibly

735
00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:39.719
beautiful young people, you know, I just think they're... went 2

736
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.300
characters and are so good together and then they manipulate them

737
00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:44.519
into a situation where they're on opposing size.

738
00:35:44.579 --> 00:35:46.079
Well, there's your drama.

739
00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:51.059
And you've got you've got an opposing side that you can sympathise

740
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:53.219
with that's right in all sorts of ways.

741
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:57.539
And because Tark is a religious maniac, it will go wrong, although

742
00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:59.039
he's not playing it like a maniac.

743
00:35:59.099 --> 00:36:01.980
And yet in the same ref, you know that the 1st contract option is

744
00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:02.639
the right thing to do.

745
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:06.119
So that's, you know, it's kind of like who's wrong there?

746
00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:06.960
Who's right, who's wrong?

747
00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:12.960
No, but it is a risky thing and it nearly doesn't come off and the

748
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.719
way it's done at the end of the season is so good.

749
00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:17.940
It's so...

750
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.260
I really, really loved.

751
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.260
And I went out of this episode and I high and it wasn't just

752
00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:25.199
coming up on discovery and all the exciting things they were

753
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:28.860
showing me that was coming there was that the cliffhanger was so

754
00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:29.280
understated.

755
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:33.119
It wasn't some massive overblown moment of drama.

756
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:37.079
It was he's going off to destroy this thing and she's got to stop

757
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:37.320
him.

758
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:39.659
But it was, I thought it was beautifully done.

759
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.739
I love how she gets to say shit when she gets coming.

760
00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:48.960
They don't say fuck anymore on discovery and they used to, and I

761
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:53.460
miss that, but I do like how the characters can kind of swear on

762
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:56.639
Kurtzman Trek, because it just makes them seem real.

763
00:36:56.699 --> 00:37:02.400
I will reinstate, though, that some of the scenes of the different

764
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:08.760
delegates talking, it really was dreary kind of trek politics, you

765
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:08.940
know?

766
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.280
Like, because so much of the rest of this was so good.

767
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.860
I want to be balanced, you know.

768
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:18.119
The only thing that sells that, that scene is that the way

769
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:24.000
gradually Michael and book are, uh, shifted into the position

770
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.519
where they become the emblems, you know, however reluctantly, where

771
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.139
they become the leaders of the 2 different factions in a way, where

772
00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:36.539
they're the ones who put the case together.

773
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.260
I think this is very moving as well because we will, as I said, see

774
00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:43.139
the relationship between Taka and Oros in a future episode.

775
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.320
Well, it looks like he's very touching. what's coming in the

776
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:46.619
future.

777
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.079
It looked like they were literally going to run and run with this

778
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:52.800
thing with those 2 on the run, like going to destroy this thing.

779
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.079
There was no, no, no, it's a different location.

780
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:56.159
So I figured it'd work out.

781
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:57.179
This is going to run for a while.

782
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.420
I'll tell you what, one thing, one thing this got really, really

783
00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:00.780
right.

784
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:06.000
And then one of my biggest criticisms of Kurtzman Trek is the, uh

785
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.460
reliance on syrup.

786
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:09.900
And I know you love it.

787
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.380
I know you love the sentiment and you feel as if previous

788
00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:15.780
iterations of Star Trek could do with a lot more.

789
00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:16.800
Yeah.

790
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:22.619
But, uh, there was no scenes of people, you know, in slow motion

791
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:25.619
looking at each other across the room, agonising.

792
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.460
No, but there was a moment where which really laid it on thick

793
00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:35.820
when they were showing how Zora had connected with the crew and

794
00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:39.599
how she expressed that through scenes of them all hugging.

795
00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:40.320
Yeah.

796
00:38:40.380 --> 00:38:42.539
It was so beautifully done.

797
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.639
It was quite subtle.

798
00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:48.000
It wasn't, it didn't feel subtle. that it was wonderful.

799
00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:51.119
It didn't feel as overblown as what we saw at the end of season

800
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.420
three.

801
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.500
Yeah, I really like that.

802
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:58.260
I mean, she does become sentient through the power of love.

803
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.039
My book in this thing makes it clear that they're done, doesn't

804
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:02.219
he?

805
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:04.019
Like at the end.

806
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:08.219
So this is him making his speech to the delegates about like all

807
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:10.739
he's lost like 1000000000s of people will die.

808
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.000
He's lost everyone.

809
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:15.360
You will be going through what I go through if this goes wrong

810
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:16.920
and...

811
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.260
And he's so good.

812
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.320
This could have been such a good agonising and he sells it

813
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.400
brilliantly, doesn't it?

814
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:26.460
I think it's because he doesn't start blubbing or anything like

815
00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:26.639
that.

816
00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:29.940
He's just kind of a bit cold. and determined.

817
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:30.420
Yeah.

818
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.199
Well, and also you've got Michael looking at him because she

819
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:37.679
understands that that's how he feels and that he's not wrong to

820
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:42.840
feel that way and she's kind of she has to just let it happen

821
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.539
because of what he's been going through, you know.

822
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:48.300
Do you know who that white fellow is in the muscle suit?

823
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:49.139
The white eyes.

824
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

825
00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:56.039
That's the butterfly people from episode one of series 4, who...

826
00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:57.360
Yeah, yeah.

827
00:39:57.420 --> 00:39:59.880
And I was also like, be smoking hole as well.

828
00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:02.880
That book here is absolutely smoking.

829
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:03.360
Oh, yeah, yeah.

830
00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:03.900
Yeah.

831
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:04.860
No, they both are.

832
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.980
Like both him and Sanequa are just beautiful.

833
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:10.139
Oh, look, we got some tears here. some tears.

834
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:12.239
Look, it's still quite restrained though, isn't it?

835
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:13.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

836
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:14.340
It's very method.

837
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.619
Oh, look, that looks like Morn.

838
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:18.420
That kind of ball looks like Morn.

839
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.079
Yeah.

840
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:23.219
So we do have the occasional, tell me the name of that race.

841
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.380
Uh, the Lumians?

842
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:27.780
Lurians, something like that. have no idea.

843
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:28.920
The modern people.

844
00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:31.800
Yeah, they never talk in discovery.

845
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:33.599
We never see them saying anything.

846
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:35.219
I'm quite disappointed.

847
00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:36.239
I think they're continuing that.

848
00:40:36.300 --> 00:40:39.179
The Beaumont are not representing amongst these people.

849
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:42.360
I choose to believe that they're on one of those levels.

850
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:47.699
I think they were assimilated by the Borg completely.

851
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:48.420
Okay.

852
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:49.500
Oh my god, did you see that?

853
00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:51.360
That little fellow with a spiky head?

854
00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.980
He looked just like...

855
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:54.539
What's his name?

856
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:57.119
Banacafalata from Doctor Who's watching the band?

857
00:40:57.179 --> 00:40:58.260
From Doctor Who.

858
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:02.159
He does appear again later. very visible.

859
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:10.260
Uh, so this is where we find the sector in Zora's memory that has

860
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:17.039
absorbed just all the love on board discovery.

861
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:20.760
Could I just say Gray's look is incredible.

862
00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:22.380
I think he looks beautiful.

863
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.139
Yeah, yeah, he does look amazing, doesn't he?

864
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.139
Like he's, he's, I guess now that he has a synth body.

865
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.900
He's just able to say, actually, growing my hair or whatever.

866
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.099
No, I think that happened.

867
00:41:32.099 --> 00:41:34.500
I've never seen this character since he's had a simple body.

868
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.300
So I'm not entirely sure how that occurred.

869
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:40.559
He comes back to series 4 looking like that, even though he's just

870
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.599
you know, someone who's visible.

871
00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:45.719
Oh, they're coming to get me, I think, the police.

872
00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:49.980
Finally, someone who's just visible to Adira.

873
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.900
It's a pretty strong look.

874
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.599
He's looking pretty striking I've told him...

875
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.559
He's on 90s trek.

876
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:56.400
They coming to bang you up.

877
00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:57.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

878
00:41:58.019 --> 00:42:03.599
The last time I saw Gray, he was manifested in Adira's mind.

879
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:04.199
Yeah, yeah.

880
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:07.199
And he was at the beginning of series 4 and they don't put a lot

881
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:08.039
of effort.

882
00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:11.639
They don't hang a lot on the synth body, but you remember at the

883
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:18.719
end of series 3 where Gray realises he has to go back into a sort

884
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:19.440
of realm.

885
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:21.300
Remember he's visible on the holodeck.

886
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.360
Yeah, be in the series three. so they all see him.

887
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:26.159
He looks like a little elfin.

888
00:42:26.219 --> 00:42:28.920
There was a lot going on at the end of series for your discovery

889
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:29.280
right?

890
00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:30.900
Yeah, but plenty.

891
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:34.860
He was kind of, he was, you know, apprehensive about going back

892
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:37.139
into a situation where no one could see him.

893
00:42:37.139 --> 00:42:40.199
And so we work towards the synth body, which has already been

894
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:43.260
established, obviously, at the end of Picard series one as a

895
00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:43.619
possibility.

896
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:45.719
Dear looked quite different before as well.

897
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:46.980
Yeah.

898
00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:47.940
Yeah.

899
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:48.480
Yeah.

900
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:49.260
Yeah.

901
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:50.460
It might just be the new uniform.

902
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:52.260
Oh, so you know, I love this.

903
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:55.380
All these scenes of them caressing and hugging and all this, you

904
00:42:55.380 --> 00:42:56.280
know, it's very nice.

905
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:02.639
But it's a way of the computer, actually expressing how she feels

906
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:04.920
you know, how is she going to do that without some kind of visual

907
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:05.519
representation?

908
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:10.739
Until you hugging Michael at the beginning of series three. episode

909
00:43:10.739 --> 00:43:11.039
two.

910
00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:16.320
Yes, the love between Shaw Show and Michael is also part of it.

911
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.420
The connection that they have.

912
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.340
I love you but I'll kill you in a heartbeat.

913
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:25.320
Yeah, he's gray stepping up to work out what it is on the boys

914
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:26.340
that's lovely.

915
00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:29.880
I didn't think this was overdone, you know.

916
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:33.480
Oh, I swear there's something going on between these two.

917
00:43:33.539 --> 00:43:34.199
Oh, well, Detma.

918
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:35.639
Oh, swear.

919
00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:37.980
They don't even appear in this episode apart from there.

920
00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:42.119
But honestly, all of this dialogue.

921
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:43.800
Was top notch.

922
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:44.760
Yeah.

923
00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:48.420
Yeah, and look, Michael and Borke, this relationship that's being

924
00:43:48.420 --> 00:43:50.940
tested and torn apart in the other plot.

925
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.940
Have I missed a bit where they made sure who she is?

926
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:57.179
Between the 2 scenes, where they were talking about the climax.

927
00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:57.840
Okay.

928
00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:59.460
It's coming up to the climax.

929
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:04.500
And I want to talk about that because you explicitly say, don't

930
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:09.360
you, that in Kurtzman Trek, if you have an A plot and a B plot

931
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.420
they're thematically linked, and, you know, it's pushing one idea

932
00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:15.900
in both plots, which isn't always a case in night and I do accept

933
00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:16.139
that.

934
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:19.800
You have these bizarre comedy sublots in 90s straight, which go

935
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:20.280
nowhere.

936
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:22.320
Which are still fun.

937
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:24.000
It's got a cargo bay or something.

938
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:30.360
But here, it couldn't be made more explicit, could it?

939
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:31.559
So here it is.

940
00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:32.699
This is the scene here.

941
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.420
And so it's crossfades between Michael talking and Paul talking

942
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:42.719
about we've we've had this choice where we can reject something

943
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:52.139
new, something that we don't understand, and we, um, you know, this

944
00:44:52.139 --> 00:44:53.639
is these are our ideals.

945
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:58.019
We seek out new life, new civilisations, but to connect, there we

946
00:44:58.019 --> 00:44:58.199
go.

947
00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:00.659
There's the title there, not to destroy, but to connect.

948
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:03.420
And so that's happening in both plots.

949
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.239
Each of them are making a speech and the direction is telling us

950
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:11.460
that they're similar because we're cross-fading between what we

951
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:12.000
need, don't we?

952
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:15.480
We need Picard from Measuring a Man to go, you know, seek out new

953
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:16.019
life and new.

954
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.519
And there it sits, just there.

955
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:20.219
You know, basically that's what they're saying about Zora, isn't

956
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:20.340
it?

957
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:20.940
It's the same story.

958
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.079
It's the same thing, but less stagey and less kind of age.

959
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:26.639
Less static as well. as well.

960
00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:27.599
The camera's moving.

961
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:29.280
Yeah, yeah.

962
00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:31.980
With the camera's moving, the camera's moving in the same way.

963
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:34.320
It's going around the person who's speaking.

964
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:37.980
So it's just another way of linking those 2 scenes together.

965
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.380
It's not just the crossfades, but the fact the camera's doing the

966
00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:40.679
same thing.

967
00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:44.579
Measure a man is justly...

968
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:48.239
Yeah, it is good, but it is raised higher because so much around

969
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:49.500
it is terrible.

970
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:50.280
Terrible.

971
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:51.239
It's very good.

972
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.039
I wouldn't say it's an out and out classic.

973
00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:55.380
Whereas much of discovery is very thoughtful.

974
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.139
So this doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

975
00:45:58.199 --> 00:45:58.860
Yeah.

976
00:45:58.860 --> 00:46:00.360
I think this is very good though.

977
00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:02.099
Much better than I remembered.

978
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:06.480
I just found, you know, I just found, I found Tarker's speech

979
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:14.400
about trying to find heaven and his friend just terribly moving

980
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:15.719
particularly knowing what to come.

981
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:19.199
You said there was a danger of going from Strange New Worlds to

982
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.179
this because it is totally different.

983
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:24.239
But this is supposed to show there is a place.

984
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.320
Go on.

985
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:30.719
But this is book here breaking up with her saying that that, you

986
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:35.280
know, she said, so she said, let's hope that even though we didn't

987
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.639
all vote for the same thing, we can move on and work together and

988
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.420
he says, no, sometimes differences are too great and you just have

989
00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:43.860
to accept the consequences of that.

990
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.500
So I can't imagine breaking up.

991
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:47.400
Does that stick?

992
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.059
Well, they're not together for the rest of the season.

993
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.679
They don't meet until the final episode.

994
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:53.760
Yeah.

995
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.960
Okay.

996
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:59.519
Well, I love the fact that to get on with the 1st plot.

997
00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:01.440
All they've got to do is trust each other.

998
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:02.699
So, yeah.

999
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:08.159
What is it they offer her a position as a specialist.

1000
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:11.280
I thought was great.

1001
00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:13.139
It's so good.

1002
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:14.699
Her reaction to it is wonderful.

1003
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.980
She's so excited, isn't she?

1004
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:18.599
I love it.

1005
00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:21.239
Oh, look at this gray...

1006
00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:22.980
What do you think they are, Gray?

1007
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:23.880
Jesus Christ.

1008
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:27.179
Why do they give Gray that line which makes him seem really dumb?

1009
00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.460
Where he says, what are those numbers on the screen?

1010
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.039
It's like, what do you reckon?

1011
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:35.519
Sometimes you've got to spell it out to the audience, don't you?

1012
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:37.139
The line of the audience.

1013
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:41.099
Do you know what a line I loved was when Zora said, I feel seen.

1014
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:42.900
I thought that was a fabulous line.

1015
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:44.340
Yeah, so good.

1016
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.340
There's our, look, here we are voting, and so we get to see that

1017
00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:51.239
shot down the big tunnel and see all the delegates and stuff.

1018
00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:53.400
And it's a pad of paper, isn't it?

1019
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:55.199
Hold up your hands. with a visual.

1020
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:58.019
Yeah, and the compute, you just see the hologram of the computer

1021
00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:00.900
detecting their hands, the Orion woman's not convinced.

1022
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.800
The hot volcanies.

1023
00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:03.360
Oh, ooh, look at that.

1024
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:04.440
Not that shrill.

1025
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:06.059
Yeah, that trill.

1026
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:09.300
There's another horror trill, though, elsewhere among the

1027
00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:10.079
delegates.

1028
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.659
You've just noticed everyone's hot in Curtzman Trek.

1029
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:13.440
Have you ever noticed that?

1030
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:18.179
Yeah, well, I think just actors have to be hotter now in the

1031
00:48:18.179 --> 00:48:20.940
intervening 30 years, everyone on TV.

1032
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:21.599
Jesus Christ.

1033
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:22.019
Yeah.

1034
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.079
Oh, that Ferengi, look, it looks terrible.

1035
00:48:25.139 --> 00:48:25.739
Yeah.

1036
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:29.340
Yeah, they're kind of...

1037
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:30.119
I'm watching it.

1038
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:31.559
Bloody master plan.

1039
00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1040
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:35.460
That's so great, isn't it?

1041
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:38.039
But it's so much better than just having a bunch of Americans

1042
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:40.559
standing around looking all the same as one another.

1043
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:45.059
Yeah, and it is it is way more imaginative than a lot of those

1044
00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:46.500
not.

1045
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:49.739
And look at the way she looks across at him.

1046
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:54.719
So she's voting yes and looking across at him and he's stony faced

1047
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:59.099
and she's kind of going, please, you know, um, but he's already

1048
00:48:59.099 --> 00:49:00.059
said we're done.

1049
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.400
Um, yeah.

1050
00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:04.619
Can you imagine if somebody else?

1051
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:08.280
If somebody else had played books role in this plot, it would have

1052
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:10.199
been a little bit interpretable, wouldn't it?

1053
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:14.280
Yeah, the thing that matters is that it's a relationship that we

1054
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.460
care about that we know and that we're invested in, it's been

1055
00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:18.420
going on for 2 years.

1056
00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:21.719
Look, he gave her them when he walked off.

1057
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:22.320
I know.

1058
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:23.579
I know.

1059
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:24.539
Oh.

1060
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.519
Can I just say as a side note, that is one good looking cat he's

1061
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:29.940
got as well.

1062
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.139
What a beautiful cat.

1063
00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:34.079
No, it's an ugly fat cat.

1064
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.380
It's a particular breed of cat, and so it's...

1065
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.239
It's called grudge.

1066
00:49:39.300 --> 00:49:40.440
It's beautiful.

1067
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:43.739
I love the fact that it can't bear burn them.

1068
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.119
Yeah, yeah.

1069
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:46.920
Cats are just like that, you know.

1070
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:48.960
They favour one, but one after the couple.

1071
00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:52.079
Well, they have that whole conversation where it's kind of like

1072
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:55.500
it's moving from hostility to indifference and that's some kind of

1073
00:49:55.500 --> 00:49:55.860
victory.

1074
00:49:56.639 --> 00:50:01.139
Oh, and here is absolutely right that Stamets is the one that

1075
00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:03.780
destroys the kill switch at the end, isn't it?

1076
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:05.579
Like, he's the one that makes the move.

1077
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:09.599
This.

1078
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:15.420
And just Kovic is so unexpectedly on Zora's side. so good.

1079
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:20.460
But no, I love the fact there's what, Stomach comes to his own

1080
00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:23.519
conclusion about it, you know, like he doesn't have to be

1081
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:24.119
persuaded.

1082
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:27.659
He, through the conversation, he realises.

1083
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.440
It's that thing though.

1084
00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:37.800
Remember where early on in the episode, Zora refuses to divulge

1085
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.699
the coordinates and Michael says, I'm the captain and it's my

1086
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:45.000
decision and Starfleet, the Federation's decision.

1087
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:46.260
It's not yours.

1088
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:50.880
And so this is him solving that problem finally by putting her in

1089
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.960
Starfleet and so she's subject to the same rules as everyone

1090
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:55.320
else.

1091
00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:59.340
Unreasonable for him to have pointed out that if she decides this

1092
00:50:59.340 --> 00:51:00.780
is too dangerous for us.

1093
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:02.760
Well, where does where's the line, you know?

1094
00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:03.900
Yeah.

1095
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:04.679
Yeah.

1096
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:07.559
Yes, it's great.

1097
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.119
That's what does being seen.

1098
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:12.659
Yeah, wonderful line, isn't it?

1099
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:14.280
Yeah, it's really good isn't it?

1100
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:18.360
And I've got to say, I am totally unborn with you.

1101
00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:19.559
I just love Saru.

1102
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:21.059
I think everything is...

1103
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:21.900
God, he's good.

1104
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:22.559
Great.

1105
00:51:22.860 --> 00:51:28.320
He's terrific too, because he's not the captain and he's, he's, and

1106
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:29.280
he's Mr. Saru.

1107
00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:33.360
Well, I think that I think that they held off long enough and they

1108
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:35.940
just basically had to make the main character a captain and

1109
00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:38.940
Michael's always been the main character, so he's where we are.

1110
00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:46.920
But having him be just wise and kind and all of those things, a

1111
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:48.179
little bit unsure of himself.

1112
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:52.380
Um, and, you know, a stickler for the rules.

1113
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:53.880
I think it's perfect.

1114
00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:56.039
He's a really, really good character.

1115
00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:58.920
It's just everything about, he's a four-fall, isn't he?

1116
00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:01.139
And so...

1117
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:05.880
I saw a wonderful picture of him just after he'd shaved his head

1118
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:07.260
ready to go and film series five.

1119
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:08.880
All right, I'm ready for go.

1120
00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:15.000
That is one thing that this entire cast, they market this show

1121
00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:16.619
brilliantly.

1122
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:17.940
Yeah.

1123
00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:22.019
You know, they clearly love making it and... they let they outside

1124
00:52:22.019 --> 00:52:22.860
well know that.

1125
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:27.239
Yeah, I mean, if this hadn't been so successful, even in its sort

1126
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:32.400
of messy early years, we wouldn't have the new Star Trek episode

1127
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:36.960
every week thing that we have now, literally every week.

1128
00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:41.039
This couldn't be more for me, this, it's an, but an anomaly, a

1129
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:41.880
moral dilemma.

1130
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.820
It's loads of people standing around in rooms with lots of

1131
00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:45.360
dialogue.

1132
00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:47.280
I mean, this is the perfect discovery episode for me.

1133
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:52.139
I think, too, that going forward, I love this set, too, there, but

1134
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:53.880
whatever it is.

1135
00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:56.579
They had that in Australia as well, didn't they?

1136
00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:57.780
Fire.

1137
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.619
Yeah, yeah.

1138
00:52:58.679 --> 00:52:59.820
And I think there's a fire.

1139
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:00.659
I can't remember.

1140
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:02.760
The one in lower decks. does it have a fire?

1141
00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:03.420
can't remember.

1142
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:04.619
It's a beautiful city.

1143
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:06.840
I absolutely love this.

1144
00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:10.679
It's a similar scene to what O'Brien and Keiko had in that episode

1145
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:12.840
we watched where he said, you know, go off Bajor.

1146
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:13.860
We'll do this long distance.

1147
00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:17.820
But these 2 are so cute and and they're young.

1148
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:20.340
And usually when you're young, you're a bit irrational and you

1149
00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:21.300
don't want to separate.

1150
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.880
She just says to her, go, we'll make this work.

1151
00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:24.840
You've got do this.

1152
00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:25.440
Yeah.

1153
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:33.900
I love how she, how, how, Adira gets to say, um, you know, that

1154
00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:34.739
that they're scared.

1155
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.260
They're adorable. aren't they?

1156
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.860
I haven't even got the subs on and I'm just bewitched by a pair of

1157
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:41.039
them.

1158
00:53:41.099 --> 00:53:45.539
She's got a lovely sort of excitable gleam in her idea.

1159
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.039
She's...

1160
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:48.119
So sweet.

1161
00:53:48.179 --> 00:53:49.260
Just sweet.

1162
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.539
And uh, yeah.

1163
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:53.099
No, I really like both of them.

1164
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.519
And I was actually, you know, I was so sad to lose Tilly.

1165
00:53:56.579 --> 00:53:58.320
She'll be back later in the season.

1166
00:53:58.380 --> 00:54:00.360
So, uh, she's a girlfriend.

1167
00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:01.920
Was she off to do a movie or something?

1168
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.559
Or was she pregnant?

1169
00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:05.159
can't remember.

1170
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:07.980
I can't remember, but I think it was personal reasons that shit.

1171
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:09.599
Better than purchase.

1172
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:11.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1173
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:14.880
And I think that they were talking about trying trying to bring

1174
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:16.739
her back for series.

1175
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.079
This is one of my favourite scenes.

1176
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:21.900
I don't know what's going on between Saru and this Vulcan woman.

1177
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.179
Are they still called Vulcan Serena?

1178
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:26.519
Yeah, well, she's from Navarre.

1179
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:27.539
She's a Vulcan.

1180
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:30.900
But she's from Navarre, which is because the reunification

1181
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:31.440
happened.

1182
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:35.579
Um, and the planets, she's the president.

1183
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:40.500
She's hot for him, but she's so restrained.

1184
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:42.059
When he gives her the plot.

1185
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.320
She couldn't be more delighted.

1186
00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:47.400
It's wonderful because she's restrained just sort of culturally

1187
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:49.980
but she does speak about her emotions and she is lovely.

1188
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:54.119
Like, she's a great character and she has been in a beard in

1189
00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:55.199
series 3 and 4.

1190
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:00.360
And Saru is restrained just because he's super polite, but also

1191
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.820
because he's very unsure of himself as well.

1192
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:06.300
But the warmth between them is so delightful.

1193
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:07.500
Yes, that's a lovely scene.

1194
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.619
Guardian Z from back from Forget Me Not.

1195
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:13.500
We've got him as a kind of semi-regular as well.

1196
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:19.679
So they're absolutely building up their own continuity in this you

1197
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:22.619
know, future setting. and having a small cast.

1198
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:23.940
Oh this is great.

1199
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:25.559
The 4 of them hugging.

1200
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:26.579
Talk about representation.

1201
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:30.599
I mean, that is... a beautiful family unit there.

1202
00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:32.159
Yeah.

1203
00:55:32.219 --> 00:55:35.460
Oh, and so you say that cares.

1204
00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:36.599
What is wrong with you?

1205
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:38.940
Mostly.

1206
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:41.159
Oh here they go.

1207
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:42.360
They're off to cause mischief.

1208
00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:48.960
So Taka calls this, this bachelor pad of yours, like describes

1209
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:54.420
Book Sheep as a bachelor pad, but I love the wood finish, and it

1210
00:55:54.420 --> 00:55:59.340
reminds me a little bit of seeing wood on the bridge of Star Trek

1211
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:00.059
the next generation.

1212
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:05.039
Oh, Enterprise D. Yeah, but obviously the wood is here because of

1213
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.139
the planet that book is from.

1214
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:10.619
And it's, you know, the only thing left of the planet, really, is

1215
00:56:10.619 --> 00:56:14.039
this sort of wood finish from the forests of Guajong.

1216
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:15.300
It was a lovely effect.

1217
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:18.480
It's about melting into the programmable manner thing.

1218
00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:19.380
Yeah.

1219
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:22.739
I love the fact they're not afraid to go weird with that special

1220
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:23.340
effect.

1221
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:25.559
Yeah, it's so good.

1222
00:56:25.619 --> 00:56:29.760
And, you know, like Star Trek has technical manuals and stuff and

1223
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:30.840
oh, here we go.

1224
00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:31.619
Would you know what?

1225
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:32.880
This is the equivalent.

1226
00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:35.699
I remember when Cisco left the baseball behind and you can't say

1227
00:56:35.699 --> 00:56:36.360
he'll be back.

1228
00:56:36.420 --> 00:56:38.579
Well, that's kind of...

1229
00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:42.360
Actually, I saw her, where's Grudge?

1230
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:44.820
and Zora goes, she's 5 metres away.

1231
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.440
And that...

1232
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.300
Does he think he's not coming back?

1233
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:50.219
That's why he's given another cat.

1234
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:51.780
Oh, that's so sad.

1235
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.079
And he she says shit.

1236
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:55.920
Excellent.

1237
00:56:55.980 --> 00:56:59.639
And that thing, where you can just personally transport from place

1238
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:02.820
to place instantly in Star Trek now, which I think is really great

1239
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:05.460
the shit comes apart.

1240
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:09.539
Yep, the ship's, the, this ship has, discovery has detachable

1241
00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:10.079
nacelles.

1242
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:13.019
Like there's just isn't enough, isn't it, for this show?

1243
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:13.739
No.

1244
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.500
Well, it's got the, it's, it's the spore drive.

1245
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:17.940
It has the spore drive equipped.

1246
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.260
And so here we have.

1247
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:20.340
Do you know what I mean?

1248
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:22.860
That wasn't such a showy ending?

1249
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:25.380
It was just like a pivot story.

1250
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.440
But it was enticing enough to want you to go on.

1251
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:31.500
Like series one, those cliffhangers, they were shot cliffhangers

1252
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:32.880
every way, were they, you know?

1253
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:36.239
Look at them walking in slow motion in leather.

1254
00:57:36.300 --> 00:57:39.840
I know what's going on there. wearing fabulous outfits.

1255
00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:42.179
Man, that guy Vance is so hot, I'm telling you.

1256
00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:43.320
So hard, isn't it?

1257
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:43.920
He's really good.

1258
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:45.719
Oh, this was really fun.

1259
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:46.619
What's that all about?

1260
00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:47.460
She was throwing the coin.

1261
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:52.199
So the next episode, is it the next episode, next episode of the

1262
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:55.800
episode after it's called All In, where they actually are trying

1263
00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:00.000
to get one another and they go to a casino and they basically play

1264
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:05.880
poker and it's just, it's so Star Trek in that the entire poker

1265
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:08.280
game is about the state of their relationship.

1266
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.920
It's really quite fun.

1267
00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:14.460
And it's nice to see in the middle of this sort of great crisis.

1268
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:18.000
Star Trek still does a sort of cheesy poker game episode, you

1269
00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:18.300
know.

1270
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:20.820
They've perfected that, you know, the kind of what's coming up

1271
00:58:20.820 --> 00:58:24.719
because the after the pilot of Strange New Worlds, the, this is

1272
00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:27.119
what you're going to see for the rest of the season, although

1273
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:28.500
immediately I haven't watched anymore of them.

1274
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:29.340
Yeah, I've only watched one.

1275
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:30.300
I will get that.

1276
00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:32.460
I know, I will get, I promise you.

1277
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:33.360
There's been a lot happening.

1278
00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:38.820
Yeah, it was bloody enticing watching that, you know.

1279
00:58:39.059 --> 00:58:46.500
Yeah, I, you know, I, I really like it because it is, see, I

1280
00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:47.400
haven't watched the Orville.

1281
00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:50.159
Orville's come back and I kind of feel like it's maybe we don't

1282
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:50.579
need it anymore.

1283
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:53.340
Oh, I will, though, because I really... all the way.

1284
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:57.239
I know, you said, you know, it's it's not Star Trek, and we've got

1285
00:58:57.239 --> 00:58:58.920
lots of Star Trek, so what's the point?

1286
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:02.219
Yeah, it's less good than Star Trek and less funny than lower

1287
00:59:02.219 --> 00:59:02.639
decks.

1288
00:59:02.699 --> 00:59:06.719
I think the visuals on the awful, though. incredible.

1289
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:10.139
Like if you want to see good looking TV, Seth McFarlane's making

1290
00:59:10.139 --> 00:59:11.159
sure that looks bloody good.

1291
00:59:11.219 --> 00:59:12.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1292
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.719
Penny Johnson's in it, though, you know.

1293
00:59:15.780 --> 00:59:17.280
I don't think she's in this new season.

1294
00:59:17.340 --> 00:59:18.119
Oh no, she is.

1295
00:59:18.179 --> 00:59:18.960
Oh, is she?

1296
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:22.139
Oh, okay. seen her in any of the pictures or the trailers or

1297
00:59:22.139 --> 00:59:22.380
anything.

1298
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.119
I'm pretty sure she is.

1299
00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:27.000
I think I saw, I can't remember.

1300
00:59:27.059 --> 00:59:29.820
I must, I need to rewatch, I think.

1301
00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:34.800
Um, the, oh, my, the, um, yeah.

1302
00:59:34.860 --> 00:59:40.380
Anyway, I, I, I think that Strange New Worlds is really properly

1303
00:59:40.380 --> 00:59:44.820
solidly enjoyable and super entertaining and incredibly well

1304
00:59:44.820 --> 00:59:45.239
made.

1305
00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:50.159
They just did their 1st weird fantasy episode where all the

1306
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:51.599
characters are playing different.

1307
00:59:51.659 --> 00:59:55.019
It's like dramatis persona and I only good, where all of the

1308
00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:58.320
characters are suddenly playing different people in a storybook

1309
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:02.460
because of a, you know, omnipotent alien entity.

1310
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:05.400
So they're absolutely going, we're Star Trek.

1311
01:00:05.460 --> 01:00:09.239
We're not in the least bit embarrassed about our cheesiest kind of

1312
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.920
conceptions and stuff like that, and they just do it solidly well

1313
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:15.599
like really, really well.

1314
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:18.840
But it's still Star Trek.

1315
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:21.480
It's still doing sort of standard Star Trek, things, whereas I

1316
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:27.360
think Discovery is pushing things further and doing things that

1317
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:28.079
are strange.

1318
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:32.699
And I can see it kind of taking the Deep Space 9 backseat role

1319
01:00:32.699 --> 01:00:36.960
where it's the one that's allowed to do really odd, strange things

1320
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:41.579
and increase the scale of the storytelling and tell more complex

1321
01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:46.440
serialised stories while Strange New Worlds is just solidly doing

1322
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:47.820
episodes of the week.

1323
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:48.360
I think.

1324
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:51.780
Well, this, I mean, maybe this episode isn't entirely

1325
01:00:51.780 --> 01:00:53.460
representative of the season at large.

1326
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:55.739
I couldn't tell you that because I haven't seen the rest of it.

1327
01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:58.199
I can tell you, I want to see the rest of it on the back of this

1328
01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:00.960
and I can't think of it more of an endorsement of this episode.

1329
01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:07.980
But I spent the entirety of season one of Discovery in the back of

1330
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:09.780
my head, I was going, this is not Star Trek.

1331
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:10.800
This is not Star Trek.

1332
01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:14.099
Well, I watched this and I was thinking the whole time, this is

1333
01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:17.280
Star Trek, and it's, and it's bloody good Star Trek at that.

1334
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:20.820
Just wait until you get to the end of the, like the last few

1335
01:01:20.820 --> 01:01:24.599
episodes of this season where it does actual proper science

1336
01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:28.019
fiction in a way that Star Trek doesn't normally do.

1337
01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:30.960
You know, normally it's sort of space opera and crap things and

1338
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:31.920
technobabble.

1339
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:36.539
But when they meet the 10 C, which they do, like the way that they

1340
01:01:36.539 --> 01:01:41.820
communicate with them is so complex and so interesting, um, and so

1341
01:01:41.820 --> 01:01:42.420
well done.

1342
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:43.619
It's so well done.

1343
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:45.960
And it's slow.

1344
01:01:46.019 --> 01:01:48.840
Like there, there are action sequences and beautiful special

1345
01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.960
effects sequences and all sorts of things, but it is just us

1346
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:56.460
trying to get to know a new completely incomprehensible alien race

1347
01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:59.519
and I've never seen it done as well on Star Trek before.

1348
01:01:59.579 --> 01:02:04.559
I want to say to whoever's listening to this podcast that if you

1349
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:08.940
are like me, somebody who pushed away from discovery, and I know

1350
01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:13.079
there are people that, you know, had a bad reaction to it, and it

1351
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.440
felt as if it, you know, was betraying the Roddenberry ideal

1352
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:20.880
whatever that means, and all of that, what I would say is, from

1353
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:26.340
what I've seen of series 3, and this one episode of series 4, is

1354
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:28.920
maybe give these 2 seasons a go.

1355
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:32.460
Because I think if you're a Star Trek fan who didn't like those

1356
01:02:32.460 --> 01:02:35.039
early years, this might be more to your taste.

1357
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:36.539
Yeah.

1358
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:40.739
And I think it's worth maybe going back and looking at one and two

1359
01:02:40.739 --> 01:02:45.239
one in particular, because even though it seems to not be very

1360
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:50.460
Star Treky, I think that this version of Star Trek, this whole

1361
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:54.599
iteration, this whole sort of Kurtzman era, is much, much more

1362
01:02:54.599 --> 01:03:01.139
heavily invested in the Federation as a place of, you know, I

1363
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:04.320
don't want to say liberal ideas because that's, you know, like

1364
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:05.639
neoliberal ideas.

1365
01:03:05.699 --> 01:03:13.980
But there is a kind of, there's a strong ethical core that is

1366
01:03:13.980 --> 01:03:16.739
tacked on a bit, I think, in 90s Star Trek.

1367
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:21.179
They've gone back and kind of read that into 60 Star Trek and then

1368
01:03:21.179 --> 01:03:22.199
they sort of do it.

1369
01:03:22.260 --> 01:03:24.480
But this one is absolutely all about that.

1370
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:30.000
All of Discovery, all 4 seasons are so much about those ideals.

1371
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:36.119
I think the, the, the cynic in me prefers the Star Trek show that

1372
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:38.940
deconstructs and possibly abuses that ideal.

1373
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:41.340
But I agree with you.

1374
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:48.539
I think it is leaning into it intelligently and entertainingly and

1375
01:03:48.539 --> 01:03:49.500
you know, that's Star Trek.

1376
01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:50.099
Yeah.

1377
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:55.380
Like I think that Deep Space 9's attack on liberalism comes from

1378
01:03:55.380 --> 01:03:59.940
the left in a way and is absolutely necessary.

1379
01:04:00.059 --> 01:04:07.079
I think that this is, it's different and it's going out in a

1380
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:10.079
completely different political environment and it's, you know

1381
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:15.659
Trump and post-Trump Star Trek, which absolutely has to adhere to

1382
01:04:15.659 --> 01:04:19.739
its ideals, which are now, as we've seen in the last week or so

1383
01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:23.880
really precarious and under considerable threat in modern

1384
01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:24.360
America.

1385
01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:29.340
So I think that Star Trek has things to say about that, which

1386
01:04:29.340 --> 01:04:30.119
makes me happy.

1387
01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:36.420
I think this podcast is, I'm very thankful that we've done this

1388
01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:41.340
because it's allowing me to see a lot more worth in this whole arm

1389
01:04:41.340 --> 01:04:46.199
of Star Trek that came later on that I pretty much written off and

1390
01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:47.579
so bring on more.

1391
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:57.059
All right, it's time for us to hit untitled Star Trek project.com

1392
01:04:57.059 --> 01:05:01.800
slash randomiser and pick our Star Trek episode for our next

1393
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:02.460
episode.

1394
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:05.460
And it's my turn to pick.

1395
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:06.179
It is.

1396
01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:09.000
It's the less exciting of the turns.

1397
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:10.139
Off you go.

1398
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:19.619
Well, maybe I again am going to try a thing that I've done before

1399
01:05:19.619 --> 01:05:26.760
which is I'm going to pick Star Trek episode from one of the

1400
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:28.619
series that I know least well.

1401
01:05:28.679 --> 01:05:34.800
And so I am going to go for the original series, the animated

1402
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:37.260
series and Enterprise.

1403
01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:38.880
Okay.

1404
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:40.079
Yeah.

1405
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:42.719
Also, it's been a bit of a loving lately.

1406
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:44.159
We've...

1407
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:45.179
Oh, no, Winnie's saying wrong.

1408
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:47.039
Dramatic persona, come on.

1409
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:48.239
Something that's terrible.

1410
01:05:48.300 --> 01:05:49.559
Yes, that's true.

1411
01:05:49.619 --> 01:05:51.360
We did kind of kick that to death.

1412
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:52.559
Well, you put enterprise in that.

1413
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:53.219
There's a good back.

1414
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:54.659
That's right.

1415
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:55.619
That's right.

1416
01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:56.159
All right.

1417
01:05:56.219 --> 01:05:57.119
So here goes.

1418
01:05:57.179 --> 01:05:58.079
I'm going to push the button.

1419
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:03.119
And it is Star Trek Enterprise.

1420
01:06:03.179 --> 01:06:05.940
Series one, episode three.

1421
01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:09.360
So the 1st regular episode.

1422
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:11.280
After Broken Bow.

1423
01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:13.619
No, it's called fight or flight.

1424
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.239
It's very boring.

1425
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.539
Very boring. press it again.

1426
01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:19.800
Oh my god.

1427
01:06:19.860 --> 01:06:22.079
So this is an animated series one.

1428
01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:24.420
Series one, episode 10, Muds Passion.

1429
01:06:24.900 --> 01:06:26.519
A sequel.

1430
01:06:26.579 --> 01:06:27.719
Yeah, no.

1431
01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:28.440
It's a good show.

1432
01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:30.119
That's gotta be agonisingly sexist.

1433
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:39.179
Oh, Joe. This is one where you are in print on the internet

1434
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:41.340
kicking this one to death.

1435
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:45.059
It's season two, episode 14 of Star Trek Enterprise.

1436
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:46.079
Stigma.

1437
01:06:46.139 --> 01:06:51.840
Oh, my God, this is one of the most offensive episodes of Star

1438
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:52.860
Trek.

1439
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:54.360
Yes, let's do this.

1440
01:06:54.420 --> 01:06:57.480
This will be a provoking episode.

1441
01:06:57.539 --> 01:07:02.280
Yeah, well, so normally I'm the one who gets angry, you know, like

1442
01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:07.739
I was furious at cogenitor and the horrific morality that it

1443
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:10.800
embodied just awful.

1444
01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:14.519
So normally I'm the one who goes on those political rants, but

1445
01:07:14.519 --> 01:07:18.119
I've read your rant about this one on Doc Oho.

1446
01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:23.280
This is the episode where Brannenbraga and Rick Berman had to have

1447
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:31.440
their arms twisted to do HIV themed episode. long after it could

1448
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.320
have done some good when, do you not, it means Star Trek wasn't on

1449
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:39.480
at the height of the, um, the HIV epidemic, but, you know, like, it

1450
01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:41.880
is, it is such an insulting...

1451
01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:43.679
Cowardly episode.

1452
01:07:43.739 --> 01:07:48.480
It never once stops to consider the point of view of the person

1453
01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:54.000
who is suffering and it only considers the point of view of those

1454
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.699
in power that are trying to stop this.

1455
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.260
It's so terrible.

1456
01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:59.159
Let's do it.

1457
01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:07.320
I think because it is a brave thing to do, and it fails in lots of

1458
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:08.099
different ways.

1459
01:08:15.059 --> 01:08:19.199
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1460
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:23.159
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1461
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:25.439
com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and

1462
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:26.100
YouTube channel.

1463
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:29.760
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1464
01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:31.319
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1465
01:08:31.380 --> 01:08:35.699
This episode was recorded on the 28th of June 2022 and released on

1466
01:08:35.699 --> 01:08:36.659
the 1st of July.

1467
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:40.800
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise, Stigma.

1468
01:09:01.859 --> 01:09:06.119
He was talking about, like, mid, like, sorry, latest award era

1469
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:08.880
Doctor Who. honestly, it was like listening to you on Flight for

1470
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:09.479
Entirety Two.

1471
01:09:09.539 --> 01:09:10.619
He was saying exactly the same things.

1472
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:13.380
What was this?

1473
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:13.979
Who was this?

1474
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:14.939
It's on the Blu-ray.

1475
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.260
Michael Gray does an interview with all about why he cancelled

1476
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:20.939
Doctor Who and his career.

1477
01:09:20.939 --> 01:09:22.619
Oh, for series 22.

1478
01:09:22.619 --> 01:09:23.520
So interesting.

1479
01:09:23.579 --> 01:09:24.720
It is the best thing on there.

1480
01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:30.479
Like, his career is so interesting full stop, but his opinion, like

1481
01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:32.279
he said, I had no grudge against Colin Baker.

1482
01:09:32.340 --> 01:09:33.899
I had no grudge against John Nathan Turner.

1483
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:35.640
I just don't think he was producing great work.

1484
01:09:35.699 --> 01:09:39.840
He goes, go and watch one of those stories from that period and

1485
01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:43.199
tell me if you think that is a responsible use of the license.

1486
01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:45.840
It's a fee.

1487
01:09:45.899 --> 01:09:48.420
I was like, Yeah, does sound like you, you know?

1488
01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:49.500
Actually.

1489
01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:54.840
He just seemed like a very intelligent blow. that believed in his

1490
01:09:54.840 --> 01:09:57.180
opinion, like that it just wasn't great.

1491
01:09:57.239 --> 01:10:00.659
And he goes, he goes, it's just, why would they even make it?

1492
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.520
They just had no idea what they were doing.

1493
01:10:02.579 --> 01:10:06.060
It was just like, oh, they've always been churning this shit out.

1494
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:06.960
Let's just keep doing it.

1495
01:10:07.020 --> 01:10:10.619
It wasn't only incredibly badly made on the most part.

1496
01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:17.039
Um, he said, but then they tried to um, compensate by making it

1497
01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:18.359
gratuitously violent.

1498
01:10:18.420 --> 01:10:20.399
He went and that made it look even cheaper.

1499
01:10:20.939 --> 01:10:22.680
Yeah, yeah.

1500
01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:23.760
He wasn't wrong.

1501
01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:26.039
That's great.

1502
01:10:26.100 --> 01:10:27.539
I'm glad they got him.

1503
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:29.880
Well, we'll watch it when you come here. put it on.

1504
01:10:29.939 --> 01:10:30.720
Have a look.

1505
01:10:30.779 --> 01:10:31.680
Yeah, it's really interesting.

1506
01:10:31.739 --> 01:10:33.300
I could have it by then.

1507
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:35.340
My order, my pre-order from...

1508
01:10:35.340 --> 01:10:37.500
Nathan, I don't expect you to watch these Blu-rays, you know.

1509
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:39.420
No, I don't.

1510
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:41.819
I just sit them on my shelf a little bit.

1511
01:10:42.180 --> 01:10:44.159
Yeah, yeah.

1512
01:10:44.220 --> 01:10:46.020
Yeah, yeah.

1513
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:47.340
All right.

1514
01:10:47.340 --> 01:10:47.760
All right.

1515
01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:51.119
Okay.

1516
01:10:51.180 --> 01:10:52.979
Oh, just let me get my.

1517
01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:57.000
I do have the notes because there's a lot of extra characters.

1518
01:10:57.659 --> 01:11:01.140
Yeah, I want to talk about something that weird as a beard, bloody

1519
01:11:01.140 --> 01:11:03.720
alien prosthetics in this.

1520
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:07.800
Some weird, weird looking fuckers in this, I'm telling you.

1521
01:11:07.859 --> 01:11:12.720
Yeah, but there's no one quite quite Beaumari-ish.

1522
01:11:12.779 --> 01:11:14.520
Like it's a little bit more...

1523
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:15.840
We'll never have the bomar again.

1524
01:11:15.899 --> 01:11:16.800
More as the pee.

1525
01:11:16.859 --> 01:11:18.479
No, yeah.

1526
01:11:18.659 --> 01:11:20.159
All right.