WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:07:12

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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Oh, Nathan, I've got a question for you.

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Why is Kate Mulgrew such a legend?

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I think that she is actually one of the best captains ever.

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I mean, you know, they're Saru and Pike and Michael and stuff.

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But she is such, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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She is such an incredibly good actor and she's never not worked.

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She's constantly doing things and she was kind of slumming it a

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bit.

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I think probably in Star Trek.

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And she is just so clever in the way that she, she's able to

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convey exactly what the character is thinking in a kind of subtle

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way.

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And she's just so fabulously strong.

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And I think, I was actually thinking this the other day because

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you know, both Doctor Who and Star Wars got in trouble for having

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female leads in the last, you know, a few decades.

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And Star Trek did it first.

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And I think maybe there was a backlash, but it was before, you

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know, Nazism came back and became so popular.

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And so I don't remember the big negative reaction to it.

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But, you know, it was a thing, how are we going to do a female

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captain, and she just absolutely nails her.

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I think the only backlash there was was from the Paramount suit.

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So I don't think it was the fans, the talking about that.

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I think when Voyage came out, people embraced Janeway straight

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away.

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By all accounts, in that 1st season, there were Paramount Suits on

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the edge of the set watching her every move for the 1st year.

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And you know, absolutely obsessed with how she looked, that she

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didn't look too feminine.

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You know, what I love about K-K-Well group is how committed she

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is.

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You are right.

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I don't think slumming it is the right way, but I think this is

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this might not be like, you know, the peak of her career doing

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Star Trek.

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She's done some fantastic theatre.

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And, you know, she's she's had other shows on her own as well.

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But man, she puts some real thought into how to play this

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character.

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And I question whether Janeway is written with any kind of

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consistency.

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It's something that run more bangs on about when he came in season

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6 that these characters were being written with like no motivation

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at all.

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Let's just do this with them this week.

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And I do think the character suffers for that.

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But I think whatever she's asked to do, she commits absolutely

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every time.

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I think she really ties it together as well.

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I mean, we have Star Trek shows and shows said in the Star Trek.

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This is a Star Trek show. show, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it does have a bit more of a premise than most of them, but

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it's still fairly light on as far as premise is concerned.

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And those shows, the characters are their jobs and how good they

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are at their jobs.

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So what always ties it together on shows like that is the actor's

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performance.

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And Janeway is always Janeway, even if she's sort of acting oddly

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or doing something that seems implausible, she does it in just a

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specific Janeway way.

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And here, gosh, the show that we're doing today is such a showcase

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for just how superb she is and everything. amazingly good in this

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episode.

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She says she's quoted as saying for once, like this was the point

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where they said they're already for her to have like a real

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romantic liaison or some holiday character or whatever.

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Um, even though that that is kind of couched in duplicity.

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Uh, yeah.

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And she's quoted as saying, um, it was so refreshing to finally

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see the woman underneath the scientists because they've kind of

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lent on, and I, and I believe that they live on the scientist side

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of it and showed them smarts, you know.

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Yeah.

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But man, man, she plays these romantic seeds.

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She's a sly old woman.

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I'm telling you this.

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She's brilliant.

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It's funny, you know, because I guess traditionally the romantic

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heroine is kind of 2nd fiddle to the romantic hero in a romance

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you know, the man is more important than the woman because

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patriarchy and all sorts of things like that.

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So the man gets top billing.

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The woman is a kind of secondary character and the story is how

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does the man win over the woman, you know, and there are

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exceptions to that.

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But putting your lead and putting your captain in that position

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where she has a relationship with a man, given the way that, you

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know, given the unequal power dynamics of how these relationships

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get presented, that puts her in a subordinate role, and you can

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see, you know, Doctor Who has a female lead and has absolutely

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shied away from anything like that.

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They haven't wanted to go in that direction at all.

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But getting Janeway in this position.

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Yeah, she's in no way.

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She's not in us of all the role here.

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She.

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Not in those scenes, isn't she?

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Like, she's, she's, well, she's playing.

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She's also pursuing it.

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Yeah, and they actually don't give her a proper romance, but we

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don't know that until the end.

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This this episode, so this is counterpoint.

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Yeah, we better mention that at some point.

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Well, it's on the, it's visible on everyone's podcast player, so

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we'll be fine.

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This episode, I think watching it for the 1st time, is a very

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different experience from watching it again.

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And this is one that I've gone back to because I think it's

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outstandingly good.

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So it's one of the episodes that I have rewatched from time to

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time.

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But it had been a while since I'd watched it and I couldn't quite

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remember how the twist went.

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But when she was kissing Kashik, I knew that she was playing him

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but it would be interesting to know what it's like again to not

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know that, to actually think that perhaps there's a real romance

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happening here.

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Oh, so you know, well, the 1st time I watched this, I was

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convinced by the chemistry, but I wasn't convinced by the

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relationship and I was waiting to see one how he would...

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And then how she would trump it.

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I wasn't sure how it was all going to happen.

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I'm watching that unfold. so satisfying.

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And I've got to say, to be able to watch an episode of Voyager

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this good after some of the draws we've watched so far was so

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satisfied.

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This takes place in season 5 of Voyager, which I think is his

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strongest year.

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It's the year where they really, the kind of Brandon Braga, Kenneth

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Biller really got their act together and started putting out some

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really good shows.

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And this is like a 4 episode rum. 30 days counterpoint latent

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image and bride of chaotica.

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And I think they're all outstanding in very, very different ways.

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For me, this is like the high point of Voyager.

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This might be my favourite of the four, possibly later image

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because that's got an even better Robert Picardo performance.

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But basically, this rocks, because of my root.

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And if you would indulge me, I have a quote from Kmart group here

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where she talks about it because this is her personal favourite

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episode that she recorded and she is protesting.

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All of those layers and all of those nuances and subtleties were

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terrific to play.

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I loved counterpoint because I was so gratified creatively.

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This was espionage at its best.

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It was a symphony.

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Every scene with Mark Herrellic, the whole marriage between the

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writing, the characters and the actors was almost perfect.

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I ran to work every morning.

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So sorry when it ended.

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Every part was wonderful.

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Deeply satisfying work and you know that is everything.

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Yeah, and it probably doesn't happen that much on stuff.

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I've got to say, do you know what she... episodes like this very

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often, did she?

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I think she had a hand. 1159 is another good showcase for her.

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Oh, I suppose you could say fair, how you, but it is, if you're so

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kind.

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Given, given sort of what they had in K-bong group.

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It's quite astonishing that she didn't get more episodes like

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this.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think this is really great.

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And let's talk about Mark Harrelick, who is absolutely superb.

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So good.

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Now, look, in this podcast, right?

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We have seen some pretty shoddy guests, you know, those, that'll

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do performances, you know, the boma, people like that.

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Man, this guy is he's really committed to this, isn't he?

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Yeah, he's great.

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And I looked at his IMDb page yesterday.

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I remember seeing him.

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I think he's in Jurassic Park 3.

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I think he plays like a tennis coach in a run of Seinfeld

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episodes.

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And that's where I'd seen him.

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I remember having seen him and I think probably I'd seen him here

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first, but I was so struck by him.

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I started noticing him in other things, but he has never not

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worked and I think he's in his 70s now and he's still going.

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It is really, really great.

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He is like, I think he's appealing and kind of creepily slimy and

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stuff, but he does, I think, sell the defection thing.

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Oh, I think so too.

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I think he really sounds.

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I think he's very charming in those scenes where they're working

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things out together. you know, and they're kind of leaning in and

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amazing.

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It's really good You think they got the actor 1st and then wrote

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the episode 4 here.

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I don't know, but it is one of these Star Trek episodes that just

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depends completely on a guest performance and we've talked about

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progress and duet before.

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So it was a thing that Deep Space 9 actually did.

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And then here, I think, you know, it absolutely stands or falls on

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the relationship between these 2 actors and they just nail it.

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It's really great.

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Well, should we give it a go?

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I think we probably should.

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All right.

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I should count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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I'll just say straight away.

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I remember when I 1st watched this.

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Okay, and this opening sequence where these Nazi storm troopers, uh

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you know, take Voyager to the classical music, I was like, this is

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something different.

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This is the, you know, this does not feel like your average

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Voyager episode.

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You know, I think what's great.

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What really, really works is that it starts in the middle, and so

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we don't have to put up with all of the scenes that we've seen

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100s of times before, of how they met and what ended up

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happening.

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You know what it would have been?

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Voyager on the back shot.

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It would have been like those scenes with the Boma, where they

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were saying, oh, you go around this up and, you know, boring

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things like that.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, the other one that we've done is the killing game, which

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does pretty much the same thing that starts with Voyager occupied

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by the Hirogen.

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This thing about materialising on deck one.

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It's like a very different game than the killing game, though

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doesn't it?

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very different.

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Yeah, but putting Voyager on the back foot, I think, is really

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good.

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Even that opening shot, which had one divorce spaceship

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approaching Voyager from the side and then one coming in over the

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camera looking absolutely massive.

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Look at her chair, sitting back in her chair.

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Oh, welcome to your ready room, Captain.

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It's it's so great because it's such a massive fuck you and it's

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so much so.

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But he's, he can be like incredibly genial.

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Like he can afford to be kind of super charming because he's so in

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charge.

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Can I just say that, um, his subordinate, Prax, has got my best

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name ever, and he goes so much mileage out of that name.

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Brax.

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What was so great was when pranks appeared on the screen and he's

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lit from below and he's really quite kind of imposing and then

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seeing him just being casually bossed around by Kashik is so

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great.

250
00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:17.940
So Kashik has the same name as the Planet of the Wookies in Star

251
00:13:17.940 --> 00:13:22.019
Wars, but it doesn't have 3 Y's in a row.

252
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.519
It's just it's just the one Y.

253
00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:26.340
I mean, there's lots of K's in it, so it's a space mate.

254
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.740
It is a space name.

255
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.919
Prax is an absolute corker of a space name, I think.

256
00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.159
Talk about dropping you straight into the story and getting you

257
00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.500
engaged immediately, you know?

258
00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.379
Voyager doesn't do this.

259
00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.139
A lot of voyagers sort of aid to be classic, isn't it?

260
00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:48.000
Yeah, because it's a Star Wars Star Wars, what are we doing?

261
00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:50.279
It's a Star Trek show.

262
00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:52.019
Because it's a Star Trek show.

263
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.799
It's here's the space problem and then we solve it.

264
00:13:55.860 --> 00:14:01.019
But having them kind of start off having failed to solve the space

265
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:04.919
problem. essentially, they can't do anything about these

266
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:09.600
inspections and putting them on the back foot is great.

267
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:13.559
Did we ever find out why what their problem is with telepaths?

268
00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:13.919
Like.

269
00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:18.960
Yeah, yeah, we actually get a speech from Kashik about it.

270
00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:23.519
And the problem is that they're racist centophobes.

271
00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:25.320
No, the problem is that...

272
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:30.360
Well, how he justifies it, the rhetoric he uses to justify it

273
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:38.639
which is kind of true, is that telepaths don't have to trust you

274
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.080
because they can just read your mind and the basis of all

275
00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:47.700
relationships and all sorts of things is trust and they short

276
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:48.659
circuit that.

277
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.120
And you know, that sounds like a thing.

278
00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:52.740
There is a wonderful scene with Neelix.

279
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:53.879
Oh, look at that shot.

280
00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:55.320
Look at that shot.

281
00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:00.600
They're like, um, uh, stingy or something out there.

282
00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:01.980
Yeah, yeah.

283
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:03.419
But they're massive.

284
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:06.899
It's so rare to get a good special effect.

285
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.539
I know, they turn the lights down in the corridors. right.

286
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:10.320
Nice.

287
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:11.580
I love all of this as well.

288
00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.019
Just going around the ship and and scanning everything.

289
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.299
I don't know, it just it feels incongruous, doesn't it?

290
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.279
It's, Yeah.

291
00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:22.559
Yeah, well, it's the sort of thing that you never see.

292
00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:25.799
And everyone is kind of slightly surly with them.

293
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:29.159
I think you know, there's a kind of repressed rage in the way

294
00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.080
everyone deals with them.

295
00:15:31.139 --> 00:15:33.840
And we've seen, look at that look on Harry's face.

296
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:36.120
Look, we've seen Harry Harris and Shakota.

297
00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:37.259
We've seen them get now.

298
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.700
They've had their contractual appearance.

299
00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:41.220
Yeah, that's kind of nice.

300
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:45.600
The one that I misleased is Tom Paris, I think, in this episode.

301
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:49.559
Oh, so there, with the cell cultures, just shoving it on the

302
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:49.679
floor.

303
00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:50.700
Yeah, yeah.

304
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:54.000
Yeah, it's great to see someone do that to the doctor too.

305
00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:54.779
That's pretty awesome.

306
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.759
Bilana's good here too.

307
00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:00.840
Like, B'lana, the way that B'lana deals with Prags is pretty

308
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:01.440
hilarious.

309
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:04.019
So, absolutely.

310
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.820
I was going to try and unpick this thing as we go.

311
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.580
At this point, does Kashik know?

312
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:12.419
That they're harbouring the telepaths.

313
00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:17.820
So they go through this whole rigma of doing the inspection and

314
00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:21.240
then later on it comes, is it because he already knows or did they

315
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:21.659
find out here?

316
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.299
Yeah, I don't know.

317
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:25.440
And it's not made clear.

318
00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.120
I don't think it's made clear.

319
00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:28.980
The next time we see him.

320
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.000
Yeah, the next time we see him, he knows everything.

321
00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:39.120
And so whether he finds out here or not...

322
00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:40.679
See how tight that is.

323
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:41.340
Yeah.

324
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:44.279
And she's great in this as well.

325
00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:47.340
And this is a little moment that indicates that she's not

326
00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:51.899
telepathic, so she doesn't count because it's a technological

327
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:54.059
thing that only works with other Borg or something.

328
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:59.220
I think that maybe it's possible they find out now because there

329
00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:00.539
are some clues, aren't they?

330
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.680
They discover that, uh, power's going to the teleport or whatever

331
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:06.180
the transporter and staff.

332
00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:08.700
Do you see Janeway's body language?

333
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:10.980
She's not giving him an inch in that room, is she?

334
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:11.640
No.

335
00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:13.619
No, she's owning the room.

336
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.420
He's in the foreground, but she's just sat back and doing the

337
00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:19.440
Janeway maneuver.

338
00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:23.039
And even as he was marching back, she was still in the background

339
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:27.480
of that shot with her hands out, incredibly relaxed on the sofa.

340
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:31.259
Oh, I love the use of music in this.

341
00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:33.359
I think it's so, so lovely.

342
00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:39.420
I think there are one or 2 moments of decent music, like decent

343
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:40.799
incidental music here as well.

344
00:17:40.859 --> 00:17:43.079
Good, the music in 90s.

345
00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:43.859
Can you say that again?

346
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:44.519
I know.

347
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:45.960
Well, maybe one.

348
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:49.980
But the music in 90s trek is pretty terrible.

349
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:52.500
And with the odd exception.

350
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.940
And so the use of like Marla and Tchaikovsky here.

351
00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:03.119
And, you know, we had duet as the title of a Deep Space 9

352
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:03.599
episode.

353
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:04.440
Yes.

354
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:08.940
And that's not anything about the content.

355
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.180
It is entirely about the relationship between the 2 characters.

356
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:16.380
It's essentially saying this is a two-hander, and this episode is

357
00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:17.519
about their relationship.

358
00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:19.380
It's got nothing to do with the actual plot.

359
00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:23.099
Here they do talk about counterpoints and they hang a hat on it.

360
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:28.319
But I think what's happening is the way their 2 personal plots

361
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:29.880
track one another.

362
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:35.279
And if you were to do a kind of graph to graph who's in charge or

363
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:41.039
who's on top or who's defeating who, you get the sense that Kashik

364
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:46.500
is playing Janeway and she's falling for it, only for that reverse

365
00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:47.160
to happen.

366
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:54.180
And then suddenly, and there's also, like a counterpoint is, you

367
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:57.839
know, a sort of melody underneath a melody that kind of tracks one

368
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:03.960
another, and the spiral, uh, the spiral thing that we see out the

369
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:08.759
window is a little bit of a visual representation of that as well

370
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.900
where you've got 2 kind of waveform superimposed upon one

371
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:13.200
another.

372
00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:16.259
I think it's daring to suggest that there's a bit of thought

373
00:19:16.259 --> 00:19:19.200
that's gone into a 90s train episode. going in here.

374
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.400
Yeah, yeah.

375
00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:24.359
I think it's, I think, because...

376
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:28.619
Yeah, by calling a counterpoint, they're saying the important

377
00:19:28.619 --> 00:19:34.019
thing to pay attention to here is how these 2 characters stories

378
00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:39.539
interact with one another and how they differ and complement one

379
00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:40.019
another.

380
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:43.559
And that's what the title duet is doing.

381
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:46.619
But here we also get to hang a lantern on it because we get this

382
00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:49.440
music from Marla and Tchaikovsky as well.

383
00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:52.319
Do you know what I thought was the ultimate payoff in this?

384
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.799
Was after all the deceptions were, you know, out in the open?

385
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:58.680
And she says, you know, my offer is genuine.

386
00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:00.660
He says, I was tempted.

387
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:01.140
Yeah.

388
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.200
So there was something definitely there, you know?

389
00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:07.500
Oh, I don't know whether we can believe that.

390
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:10.740
Well...

391
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:11.880
I believe her.

392
00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:13.019
No, that's true.

393
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:14.160
I think that's true.

394
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.859
She looks like she's about to spit in his eye.

395
00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:21.900
Yeah.

396
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.180
Can we talk about the makeup?

397
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:29.339
That, it, okay, it is a bit of latex, but it's fairly. allows him

398
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:30.240
to give a performance still.

399
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:35.039
Yeah, I think, you know, like it doesn't interfere with the face

400
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:39.660
at all, and I think it is, it does make him a bit ominous, though

401
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.519
sort of emphasising the eyebrows and things.

402
00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:43.680
I think it looks pretty good.

403
00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:45.839
This is peak Janeway hair for me.

404
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:47.400
I just love that hair.

405
00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:48.359
She's got an example.

406
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.259
It's very kind of standard American hair.

407
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:54.059
Look, pattern enhances.

408
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.700
You were asking me about pattern enhances before when they

409
00:20:56.700 --> 00:21:00.359
appeared in Star Trek the Next Generation in PowerPlay.

410
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:04.079
They use the pattern enhances, and it turns out here they are.

411
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.019
There's a bit of, you know what?

412
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:07.740
Have you know those?

413
00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:08.460
The cameras.

414
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.220
There's a bit of harm, how camera work going on in this, you know

415
00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:12.240
to give it a bit of urgency.

416
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:13.200
Yeah, who is this?

417
00:21:13.259 --> 00:21:14.279
Is this cliff bowl?

418
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.559
I can't remember who directs this, just to say.

419
00:21:16.619 --> 00:21:18.599
I mean, we shouldn't have mocked bowl too much.

420
00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:20.039
He did best of both wells part one.

421
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.440
It's Les Landau.

422
00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:23.519
You're joking.

423
00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:24.420
My God.

424
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.680
No, it's him.

425
00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:28.559
He's hacked out a few of these that we've watched already, and we

426
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:30.180
weren't complimentary there, I'm telling you.

427
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.980
Maybe he's one of those directors, depending on the quality of the

428
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:36.960
script and how much effort he puts into it.

429
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:39.660
Yeah, yeah.

430
00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:41.460
Yeah.

431
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.079
I think this is so great.

432
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:47.400
And so, and that too, because this is a reversal as well.

433
00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:48.599
This is a development.

434
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:54.180
We didn't know at this point, or until this point, that they were

435
00:21:54.180 --> 00:22:00.720
harbouring fugitives, and I think, well, we know some, he said

436
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.140
that, uh, she said that Bora could chew up with dead, and that was

437
00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:05.279
not going to happen off screen.

438
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:05.880
Oh, yeah.

439
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.799
So we know there's some kind of...

440
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.980
Actually, doesn't that happen the next time he comes out?

441
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.240
No, no, no, they just haven't.

442
00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:13.319
That happened just now.

443
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:13.859
Okay.

444
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:14.700
Yeah.

445
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:21.720
So, uh, Vorrick, he was in learning curve or something like that?

446
00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:22.680
Blood fever.

447
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:23.400
He the one.

448
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:25.200
Oh, the blood fever he gets.

449
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:29.700
My mouth with Blood of Torres, and then she takes on the horniness

450
00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:31.619
and then she has it off of Tom Harris.

451
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:37.500
It had the most terrible consequences.

452
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:38.640
But you're right though.

453
00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:44.460
That's the 1st that's the 1st point where, you know, it's exposed

454
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:47.759
that, you know, the telepaths, the basically a whole story has

455
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.279
happened before this that we're not privy to.

456
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:50.940
Yeah.

457
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:55.559
And and, you know, note, it isn't just contractual obligation that

458
00:22:55.559 --> 00:23:00.539
makes us go from one character to another, seeing how they react

459
00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:03.299
to the inspection.

460
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:06.180
Because I don't think we see Neelix being inspected.

461
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.940
Are we supposed to notice that Tuvok isn't there?

462
00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:10.859
at that point.

463
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:13.859
We see all of the other major characters, but not too VOC.

464
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.579
Possibly.

465
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.380
Yeah, but he's so neglected, usually.

466
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:17.579
Look, maybe we just don't know.

467
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:20.400
Do you know, there's a lovely team with Neelix in a bit, you know

468
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.640
when he's with the telemathic team.

469
00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:25.859
I think he works.

470
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.200
Brilliant with kids, doesn't he?

471
00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:29.940
That's that's like when he's carrot safe best.

472
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:35.880
So this lovely set here is not stellar cartography, what is it?

473
00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:36.599
Can you remember?

474
00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:37.980
Astrometrics.

475
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:38.400
That's right.

476
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:39.779
I think we did.

477
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:41.160
Stellar cartography set.

478
00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:42.240
Oh, yeah.

479
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.220
No, he's got them all around him.

480
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:45.779
Like he's run a campfire, you know?

481
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:47.160
Like, it's really lovely.

482
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:48.900
And a couple of pastries on the floor.

483
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:53.160
And those characters flautter and Trebus have been in it.

484
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:56.160
Do they agonise turn up in the holodeck?

485
00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:58.140
Naomi Wildman once upon a time.

486
00:23:58.200 --> 00:23:58.500
Yeah.

487
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:00.119
Oh, yeah.

488
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:01.319
Yeah, it's really terrible.

489
00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:09.000
I really like this, because we've, we have cashie saying why, why

490
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:13.140
telepaths are a problem because they short circuit trust.

491
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:17.579
And then we see a scene where this little kid is spoiling the

492
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:20.220
story that Neelix is trying to tell.

493
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:25.019
And all that Neelix Dansey is say, it's actually not polite to do

494
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:25.319
that.

495
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.240
And the kid goes, oh, all right.

496
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:31.980
And it kind of shows you how bullshit that explanation of cash X

497
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:36.779
is, that, you know, there's no problem with telepath. tapped into

498
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:40.619
something here with negative X because then he, well, he's already

499
00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:43.740
got it, but it continues, the relationship with Naomi Wild.

500
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:44.880
He gets the haunting of deck.

501
00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:47.519
And then he gets, yeah, the ball children come in and he has

502
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:48.240
scenes with them.

503
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.980
And it's just, he sings.

504
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:51.839
He absolutely sings when he's that parental figure.

505
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:54.839
I love that.

506
00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:56.279
Look at that.

507
00:24:56.339 --> 00:25:00.779
Where, where he says to, where Neelix says to Janeway, for you, the

508
00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:03.839
kitchen's always open and she smiles at him and gives him a little

509
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:05.519
playful punch on the shoulder.

510
00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:10.079
She's absolutely just, you know, she's so good, you know.

511
00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:11.880
So excited by this.

512
00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:15.480
There's a whole episode where she was hunting down coffee. she

513
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:16.319
makes that interesting.

514
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:20.880
There's coffee in that nebula, Nathan. like, yeah, that's like

515
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:22.200
episode two, isn't it?

516
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:23.160
It's like really early.

517
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:27.900
I suppose as well, when it comes to the telepaths, the, they call

518
00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:32.339
the Imperium, the, the, yeah, the Devore Imperium.

519
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:33.180
The Devore Imperium.

520
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.779
They're obviously like a military force and the telepaths have an

521
00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:37.920
advantage over it, don't they?

522
00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:39.539
They can...

523
00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:40.019
Yeah.

524
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:40.500
Yeah.

525
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.319
Oh, here he is.

526
00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:44.339
Here he is.

527
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.200
He looks a lot more relaxed.

528
00:25:46.259 --> 00:25:49.140
Now, his hair's a bit just sheve all. in casual clothes.

529
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:52.559
He's in terrible Star Trek casual clothes.

530
00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:55.680
Although I think once he takes the jacket off.

531
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.420
Oh, my God.

532
00:25:57.420 --> 00:25:58.319
I don't want to wake up.

533
00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:59.579
Give him a snob.

534
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:04.859
No, I was I spent a lot of time looking at his very, very hairy

535
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:05.400
arms.

536
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:07.500
Okay, you did.

537
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:09.839
He's a very hairy man.

538
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:11.759
And you know what?

539
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:12.900
He's getting a bit of shit.

540
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:14.640
He's great about this because we've done this.

541
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.700
We've done the defector about 4 times already.

542
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

543
00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:21.960
Including an episode called The Defector.

544
00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:28.680
The defector. that's right I think too, at this point are we

545
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.119
inclined to believe him.

546
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:37.319
There's a twist and it turns out that the arrogant evil inspector

547
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:43.259
from the cold open is actually a good guy and he wants to help

548
00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:43.680
them.

549
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:45.720
That's a possible story, isn't it?

550
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:48.660
It's not absolutely certain at this point he's lying.

551
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:52.140
Okay, the way this episode is ploted.

552
00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:55.619
And the way it's constructed.

553
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.160
I don't know.

554
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:58.140
I was just always expecting subterfuge.

555
00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:01.859
And the way they sort of play around each other all the time and I

556
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:04.559
was like, okay, so this is a game where we're playing a game and

557
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:07.019
eventually there's going to be a twist that hits, you know.

558
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:11.700
Yeah, so I think that the great thing is that there's a kind of

559
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:15.599
obvious reading of what's going on that keeps getting subverted

560
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.980
and this is one of them, this scene here.

561
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:24.960
I, you know, I can't remember my 1st viewing of this, but I'd be

562
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:27.480
inclined to believe him.

563
00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:29.819
Maybe it would have been more convincing a bit of imprax.

564
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:34.559
And I don't mean, like, he he'd wait, yeah, if it was the...

565
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:37.019
Well, no, no, but like the bullied subordinate defecting.

566
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:38.940
Maybe that would have been more convincing then.

567
00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:42.299
Because he was so, you know, in his element, wasn't he?

568
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:43.680
You know, ready room in charge.

569
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.140
You know, with the inspection.

570
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.259
And then to go from that to this, I was just like, really?

571
00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:53.099
His eyes is so good.

572
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:54.720
Yeah.

573
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.039
Yeah.

574
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:57.059
You know what?

575
00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:00.240
They showcase this set quite a bit, you know, season five.

576
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:03.720
And lots of poor, they're pulled a bit of money, that way.

577
00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:09.779
Well, we had stellar cartography, remember, in generations, which

578
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:14.220
was that spectacular set where you had all of the walls were a

579
00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:16.680
giant, you know, spherical screen.

580
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:17.579
It was really great.

581
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:18.299
What a movie.

582
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:19.440
Come on.

583
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:23.099
Yeah, I know, here they've just got a bit of a big telly and it's

584
00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:27.720
still, you know, it's still smaller than Pike's incredible

585
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:28.559
widescreen.

586
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.200
Seeing on the enterprise.

587
00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:35.220
I do think it's a shame though.

588
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:35.700
I wish.

589
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:39.420
Like, you've always just shied away, didn't it, from...

590
00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:43.200
Giving Jane Way a long-term romance.

591
00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:45.240
I would like to have seen that play out, you know.

592
00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:46.500
No, maybe not this one.

593
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:51.480
No, yeah, I don't know.

594
00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:54.000
I do like...

595
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.319
Were we not ready for a woman to be in charge and to be, you know

596
00:28:58.319 --> 00:28:59.579
sexy and romantic?

597
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.779
Yeah, well, they manage it on Discovery, don't they?

598
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.720
And in fact, they make that a thing, and they give books something

599
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:07.319
to do.

600
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:12.299
And I guess that would be the difficulty is who do we do it with

601
00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:15.059
and what do they do on the show?

602
00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:20.400
Whereas book gets a very definite plot of his own in series 4 of

603
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:20.819
Discovery.

604
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.880
Maybe we should be thankful, though, because so many of those 90s

605
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.480
romance.

606
00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:26.640
Their trek romances are so agonising.

607
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:29.519
I mean, there's the odd one that steps through, like, rejoined

608
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:32.519
which works by well, that, oh, generally speaking.

609
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:36.119
And it's full of the usual Voyager cringe dialogue, isn't it?

610
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:37.740
You know, the Voyager banter.

611
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:43.200
Well, in fact, that's the one thing that I'm so happy to not have

612
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:47.700
to go through this episode, is there is no Voyager banter, because

613
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:51.779
we're already on the back foot, and because we see them come in

614
00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:54.960
you know, in the middle of a thing where they're being inspected.

615
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.319
We don't get any bullshit about the Delaney sisters or anything

616
00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:58.680
like that.

617
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.599
But they haven't played like a romance, right?

618
00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:03.720
2 of them's trying to solve the space problem, which is what we

619
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:04.259
normally do.

620
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.980
But with the 2 actors playing the dialogue in an incredibly

621
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:10.140
flirtatious way, and that's what works.

622
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.740
Yeah, I mean, it's in the script, though, because it does

623
00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:18.420
culminate in the 2 of them kissing in the shuttle bay, and I think

624
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:20.279
that scene is incredibly well played.

625
00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:24.480
So what they are doing is the kind of thing where they've got a

626
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:28.680
prickly antagonistic relationship, and then they discover that by

627
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:32.460
working together, there's some real chemistry, and it sort of

628
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:33.480
leads up to a kiss.

629
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.500
It's so good.

630
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.700
It's such a great romance and I'm so glad it's not real as well

631
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:40.079
just terrific.

632
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:44.460
They're both playing. where he says, oh, I think you like me.

633
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:46.680
She's like, I've decided whether I like you at all.

634
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:49.079
Like, she didn't look so away from me.

635
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:51.720
Oh, my God.

636
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:53.640
The thing very early on.

637
00:30:53.759 --> 00:31:00.299
It's kind of like when Kashik is explaining to her why telepaths

638
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:01.319
are banned.

639
00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:03.059
He says, do you trust me?

640
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:04.440
And she says not for a second.

641
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:08.759
And I think that's so great because he's trying to be genial.

642
00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:13.980
He's trying to be charming and, you know, the way that he shows

643
00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:15.960
that he's in charge isn't by yelling at everyone.

644
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:18.839
It's by just being as charming as hell and not giving a shit about

645
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:19.140
anyone.

646
00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:22.079
You know the bit when they kiss right before he goes off.

647
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:25.440
That's to the point where I wish I was a telepath.

648
00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:26.700
And I could hear what were they thinking?

649
00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:28.319
Because I think they're both thinking at the same time.

650
00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:28.920
Aha.

651
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:29.579
Got you.

652
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.240
You know?

653
00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:35.519
Well, I think what's great too, is that we go on about telepaths

654
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.299
and they're an important thing, and we even have that speech from

655
00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:44.099
Kashik about trusting one another in a story where we don't know

656
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:47.220
what the writers are doing and we can't work out how to read

657
00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:51.000
particular scenes, and neither of these 2 characters knows what

658
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:55.740
the other is doing, and both of them, it turns out, are deceiving

659
00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:56.339
one another.

660
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:58.500
Do you know what's astonishing doing things in the background?

661
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:00.660
We're not listening to the dialogue.

662
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.599
All I'm really seeing is their body language and she's like

663
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.799
stroking the chair and coming towards him like our bloody cougar

664
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:08.339
I'm telling you.

665
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.779
Yeah.

666
00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:11.519
I'm leaning in right now.

667
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:15.599
Voyager is my shit.

668
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:17.819
This is so good.

669
00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:19.200
And do you know what's fat?

670
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:19.680
Okay.

671
00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:20.460
We're not there.

672
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.160
You know the bit where, where...

673
00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:25.980
But the bit where he finally, you know, goes, you know, this is

674
00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:27.180
this was my plan all along.

675
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:29.579
She's so half hard in her reaction.

676
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.519
Well, I was waiting for you to drop you, you know.

677
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:34.920
Oh, you've got me.

678
00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:36.420
Oh, she's brilliant.

679
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:43.859
Oh, now, I think that this alien is actually pretty fucking

680
00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:44.279
great.

681
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:45.839
I knew you were.

682
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:46.740
I knew you were.

683
00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:47.400
And you know what?

684
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:50.400
The makeup is weirdish.

685
00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:51.420
Fuck, isn't it?

686
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:52.500
But it's the performance.

687
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:53.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

688
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:54.180
Doesn't he have a weird tip?

689
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:55.079
The performance well.

690
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:57.660
Yeah, yeah, we'll get there.

691
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.660
And it's... so I...

692
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:06.779
He's so great, but because he looks like a frog or like an

693
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:08.279
amphibian of some kind.

694
00:33:08.339 --> 00:33:11.279
They've even done something to his hands to give him like finger

695
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:11.880
pads.

696
00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:16.980
Like his hands have been made up in such a way that his, the

697
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:19.019
fingers end in sort of frog-like pads.

698
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:24.900
He's like a frog and he has this thing that expands around his

699
00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:29.099
nose, the way that some frogs blow up their neck in order to make

700
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:29.940
a louder sound.

701
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.079
And I wonder, I wonder whether the actor discovered he could do

702
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.140
that with the latex just inadvertently.

703
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.180
And Les said, do that.

704
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.039
Do that because it's really funny.

705
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:42.900
So it's a proper comedy performance.

706
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:44.700
The double the double pupils.

707
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:45.720
He's got as well.

708
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:46.559
Look at his eye.

709
00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:46.799
Yeah.

710
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:48.900
They give him double D. really nice contact.

711
00:33:49.259 --> 00:33:54.059
I mean, the poor actor, he is slavering in latex, don't he?

712
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:55.799
Yeah, look, look at his fingers.

713
00:33:55.859 --> 00:33:57.240
Look at his the fingerpans.

714
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:58.200
You can see it there.

715
00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:00.599
They've put them on to make him look more like a frog.

716
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:03.420
I think this has a sort of coherent look to it.

717
00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:06.119
Every time he moves his head.

718
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:07.079
Extra nostrils.

719
00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:08.400
That backfit wobbles.

720
00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:10.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.460
I think he's really good.

722
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.619
Do you know what?

723
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.780
Literally, it's doing this thing with you.

724
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:18.719
I was pissing myself laughing because I knew you'd have so much to

725
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:19.320
say.

726
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.659
He's so good though.

727
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:24.179
He's not on the bow mask scale at all.

728
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.099
I absolutely buy this guy.

729
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:29.039
He's like -100 on the boat.

730
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:30.300
Yeah, yeah.

731
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.800
There's some actual thought here.

732
00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:36.179
And he's a character, and of course, the important role that he

733
00:34:36.179 --> 00:34:42.960
plays is that now Janeway and Kashik are playing him and they're

734
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.179
both deceiving him.

735
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.119
Yeah, they're teaming up to deceive him in the same way that

736
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:50.099
they're deceiving one another at the same time.

737
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.199
They work together really well.

738
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:53.219
There is.

739
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:54.900
He blew up his nose.

740
00:34:55.019 --> 00:34:58.920
Even when they're, um, even when they're obviously working against

741
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:00.539
they work together brilliantly.

742
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:02.940
Did you say the way she was leaning again, Gary?

743
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:06.480
He told me not to contact you, but I did it anyway.

744
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.639
She so great.

745
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.800
But in an episode that is all about a central relationship that is

746
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.699
based entirely on playing one another, having the 2 of them team

747
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:19.739
up to play someone else.

748
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:25.500
Like, again, the fact is that there's a proper coherence to the

749
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:26.039
script.

750
00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:27.599
It's properly thought out.

751
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:28.679
It's about a thing.

752
00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:32.699
She's done this thing, which Kotay quite a few times.

753
00:35:32.820 --> 00:35:35.579
There's quite a few moments through Voyager, where they're like

754
00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:36.960
you know, putting off stomach.

755
00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:40.380
And it just don't work anywhere near as good as this.

756
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:46.019
Yeah, well, Mark's giving a shit would be my guess.

757
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.639
That would be the difference in this scene.

758
00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:49.440
Where?

759
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.420
Robert Belton.

760
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.000
Yeah, that's how...

761
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.860
I'll just write it out for the next 5 years.

762
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:56.820
Fuck it.

763
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.780
That's right.

764
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:59.760
Regular paycheque.

765
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:00.780
But do you know, right?

766
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:01.860
You can match it.

767
00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:04.139
You know when... look at the look.

768
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.440
They just looked at one another after giving him the thing and

769
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:07.980
then this.

770
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:11.400
Oh, this is one of the best teams of the episode, this.

771
00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:16.559
So they're pulling an all nicer, so they're in the mess hall, and

772
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:21.539
he, there are his arms, his incredibly hairy arms, and there's a

773
00:36:21.539 --> 00:36:25.500
glimpse of a cephalic vein going down that bicep there.

774
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:29.340
So it's I thought it was worth mentioning.

775
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.679
He's...

776
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.260
What, no, but he's at his sexiest.

777
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.300
And he's taken the jacket off.

778
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:39.659
Say, counterpoint.

779
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:40.079
There we go.

780
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:46.679
But here we here we explaining the central conceit, and it's the

781
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:52.139
parallel, parallel melodies playing against one another, and

782
00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:56.039
they're talking about space things, but this scene is entirely

783
00:36:56.039 --> 00:37:00.000
about their relationship and not the way they conceive their

784
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.420
relationship, but the way that it works in plot terms.

785
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.840
This is the writer telling us what they're doing.

786
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:09.420
And I just think it's so good.

787
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:10.679
It's so brilliant.

788
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:13.440
You know, you know, when she's growing, it's like, look at those

789
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:13.800
pants.

790
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.840
Look at them in those trousers. every single day.

791
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:17.820
I can see this in her performance.

792
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.460
Like, she is eating off the script.

793
00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:22.079
Yeah.

794
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:24.480
And look at Mark Harrelick's travel.

795
00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:26.699
Anxiety doesn't become a new inspector.

796
00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:28.980
She's so great.

797
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:31.199
There it looks a little.

798
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:33.599
I haven't decided whether I like you at all.

799
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:35.940
You like me better in the uniform.

800
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.500
And and she's doing to him what he did to her in that 1st scene.

801
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:44.099
You know, she's just lounging around being genial and stuff while

802
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:45.179
he's being stressed.

803
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.099
And this is what I recall.

804
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:48.719
The Colian colar.

805
00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:49.980
Infinite spirals.

806
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:51.599
Yeah, I know, that's sort of crap.

807
00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:58.860
But notice that they are 2 strands that cross one another, a sort

808
00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:00.480
of pinker one and a bluer one.

809
00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:05.219
And so the spiral thing, the 2 things spiralling around one

810
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:08.099
another is another representation of the camera.

811
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.039
I do think there is a rather more obvious reason, a special effect

812
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:13.260
though, and that is to give them a very romantic backdrop.

813
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.840
Yeah, yeah.

814
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:19.019
And like, does Voyager do stuff out the window all that much?

815
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.760
I know that, uh, something that we...

816
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.579
Yeah, well, there's one fabulous episode where they land at this

817
00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:29.340
they go to this spaceship and you can see all the different

818
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:32.159
elements of the station outside the windows, depending on where

819
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:32.760
you are on the ship.

820
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:37.199
Because this ship can, it depends on how early in the season is, if

821
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:37.800
they got on the budget.

822
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:42.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a little bit low effort.

823
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:44.760
He's so convincing to change.

824
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:45.539
Look at him.

825
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.960
Yeah, he's looking so handsome.

826
00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:51.000
I guess, I guess.

827
00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:55.679
The, they don't ruin the look of his face, do they?

828
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:57.000
The latex things.

829
00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:58.920
He still manages to look handsome.

830
00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:00.780
If he looked weird, that would have been a problem.

831
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.239
Oh, I think he looks very sexy.

832
00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:05.099
Yeah, I do too.

833
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:07.320
Oh, maybe we need to change something quick.

834
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:09.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

835
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:13.739
So, and Devore, I think, is a really great name, too, for aliens

836
00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:15.900
it's kind of like, how have they not used the name Devore before

837
00:39:15.900 --> 00:39:16.739
it's such a good name?

838
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:17.880
Do you know what he's doing here?

839
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:20.460
He's given one of those horrendous Star Trek nighties trek

840
00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:23.579
backstories where he's like, oh, there was a little girl trapped

841
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:26.099
in the thing and I can never forget her face.

842
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:29.039
It's the sort of thing we get every week on Star Trek, but it's

843
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:29.880
all part of the ploy here.

844
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.440
I still think that the best one of those is that one in Picard

845
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.800
where Rios is telling the story and then his doctor girlfriend

846
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.539
just sort of resets his broken arm or something in the middle of

847
00:39:42.539 --> 00:39:43.019
it and says.

848
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:43.320
Yeah.

849
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:44.940
Good story.

850
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.300
But okay, now there is something I want to address.

851
00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:52.199
Now look at how they're sitting.

852
00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.780
There is something I would like to address with you, because one

853
00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:59.400
of your criticisms of 90s trek is that it does rather confine

854
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:03.900
itself to lots of speaking parts in a few sets.

855
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.519
And I think counterpoint uses that to its advantage.

856
00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:11.639
And I don't think 90 straight always does, but I think it can.

857
00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:12.179
No.

858
00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:16.500
And I think if you've got like a strong idea for a story, if

859
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:18.780
you've got a couple of good characters, if you've got some really

860
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:24.119
good actors, then this can be fantastic TV without like, you know

861
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:27.599
the cinematic production value of latter-day trick.

862
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:31.980
Yeah, I mean, this is directed with a little bit of thought and

863
00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:32.460
effort.

864
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:34.440
But it's still...

865
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:35.760
The low lighting helps.

866
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:37.619
It is still all the standing sets.

867
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:42.239
There are one or 2 nice visuals, but they're not that great.

868
00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:44.159
Like they're nothing to write home about.

869
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:51.119
I guess to the other thing that Trek can do, I think, like, I

870
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:55.440
still believe that Trek needs to look weird, and the big failure

871
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:57.900
of 90s Trek is that it mostly looks boring.

872
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:01.920
And that's, you know, I don't think that's a superficial

873
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:02.340
complaint.

874
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:06.119
I think that's a proper complaint, that Star Trek is said in this

875
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:06.480
world.

876
00:41:06.539 --> 00:41:09.900
Why is it said in this world, if you're not going to show us

877
00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:11.699
things that we've never seen before?

878
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:13.980
I think there were reasons.

879
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:16.559
There are reasons why they did what they did.

880
00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:19.679
I think if they had more money, I think they were making less

881
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.079
episodes. blah, blah, blah.

882
00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:22.980
You could go on and on.

883
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:24.539
Doctor Who looks...

884
00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:29.880
Like Doctor Who is, like, it looks, well, I mean, 90s Doctor Who

885
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.219
that one episode is fairly boring as well.

886
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.320
Maybe it's because they...

887
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:36.059
Actually, I think that's a nice shot.

888
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.940
That shot of the array thing that's sending out the pulses is

889
00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:39.300
pretty great.

890
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:42.659
They confine themselves to like a workplace drama, didn't they?

891
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.440
So what we have is the sets and the actors and that's kind of what

892
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:46.920
we play with.

893
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:53.760
But what it can do is it can create made up political situations

894
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:55.920
and interrogate them.

895
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:59.159
And so this is sort of doing that.

896
00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:01.619
So you create the Devore Imperium.

897
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:05.760
You create a group of people who they routinely persecute and

898
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.119
we're trying to get refugees from that imperium to a particular

899
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:10.619
safe place.

900
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.280
Now, that is the sort of thing that you can do in a show set on

901
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:18.599
earth, but it's sort of slightly messy because like you have to

902
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:23.460
make up a country or something like that or you, you know, like it

903
00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:25.739
just becomes a messy or whatever.

904
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:26.219
Yeah.

905
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:27.599
Yeah, yeah.

906
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:29.880
And so here they can do that.

907
00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:31.800
And Voyager does it a reasonable amount.

908
00:42:31.860 --> 00:42:36.539
Like Voyager does do the let's create a made up space society and

909
00:42:36.539 --> 00:42:39.780
use it to illustrate something in our own society.

910
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.260
And perhaps the best one of those is living witness.

911
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:47.760
I mean, that was one of the massive streets, PS9, wasn't it?

912
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:52.380
And that it had those massive empires, which were making parallels

913
00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:55.800
with things that actually happened in history, and told that on a

914
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:56.760
massive canvas.

915
00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:58.500
Exactly right.

916
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.880
And, but what, but because Voyager is going from place to place, it

917
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.699
can create a society to illustrate a and then throw it away and

918
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:06.599
never see it again.

919
00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:09.179
And that's a kind of Star Trek thing to do.

920
00:43:10.139 --> 00:43:10.800
I think that's...

921
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:14.699
In 45 minutes, it is hard to do if, you know, and there are

922
00:43:14.699 --> 00:43:16.800
examples of what you're doing that extremely well.

923
00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:20.699
And that's death writing to introduce a society, interrogate it

924
00:43:20.699 --> 00:43:23.460
and tell a satisfying story in 45 minutes.

925
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.980
That scene started on 7's breast and then pulled back.

926
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:33.659
I think from season 4 onwards, most, there is at least one scene

927
00:43:33.659 --> 00:43:34.199
the start song.

928
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.380
Like to start.

929
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.320
So breasts come into shot and then we pull back to reveal seven.

930
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.179
No one has to do it.

931
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:44.519
The divorce ships are coming back now, so he's got to he's got to

932
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:44.699
be off.

933
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.739
Yeah, yeah.

934
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:47.699
Well, do you see the way there?

935
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:49.679
She just got sort of whisked Jose away.

936
00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:50.820
Get off a bit.

937
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:52.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

938
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:54.719
So in charge, didn't she?

939
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.360
She got nothing to prove to anybody.

940
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:01.139
Captain, we have to talk.

941
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.639
I mean, kiss coming here.

942
00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:05.820
Ah, yeah, so this is the thing.

943
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:09.300
So, oh, yes.

944
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:10.860
It does, oh, yeah.

945
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:13.199
I'm going back to join the warships.

946
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:16.320
So, like, as I say, at this point, my brain's going, oh, God

947
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:16.739
what's happening?

948
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.039
Okay.

949
00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:17.940
Yeah.

950
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:19.860
Is she having to rethink her strategy now?

951
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:25.260
No, I don't think so.

952
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:26.340
You think she's got this from the off?

953
00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:29.340
She's, she's, she's got this from the off.

954
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.360
Well, you know, nothing is really happening behind the scenes

955
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:34.500
because this is just TV.

956
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.719
The only thing that happens is what we get to see.

957
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:39.000
You pull that out to me a lot, you know.

958
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:48.239
So, but what I think, though, is he's got a definite plan.

959
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:51.000
This is all planned out from his end, isn't it?

960
00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:56.280
That he then encounters the warships, uh, you know, he knows they

961
00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:01.380
can't get past the ping, the machine that goes ping, and uh, the

962
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:04.380
warships are going to get them, so he'll have to go back and then

963
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:07.440
he'll come back with the warships and take over the ship.

964
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.280
So if he's got it all planned out, she has to have it all planned

965
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:11.579
out as well.

966
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:14.460
Yeah, but she couldn't possibly know he was going to affect.

967
00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:16.440
She is so good.

968
00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:18.780
No, no, once it affects, I think.

969
00:45:18.780 --> 00:45:21.539
Once it affects, she decides how to play it.

970
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:22.559
Yeah.

971
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:22.980
Yeah.

972
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:25.980
Because it doesn't work because it's a counterpoint.

973
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:28.860
They each have to be playing one another equally.

974
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:30.599
She can't be falling for him.

975
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.280
It's got to be made up.

976
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:33.659
And I think...

977
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:35.940
There should have been a briefing where she's there telling, you

978
00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:36.780
know, all of our crew.

979
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.480
No, I'll have a... no, no, no, no, no, no.

980
00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:40.440
No, I don't want to see it.

981
00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:41.219
We mustn't have seen it.

982
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:41.760
I want to see it.

983
00:45:41.820 --> 00:45:42.900
I want to think that it's happened.

984
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.619
She's going, I'll have it eating out the palm of my heart.

985
00:45:46.619 --> 00:45:47.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

986
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:48.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

987
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:51.420
But it's absolutely the right decision not to show us.

988
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.659
We mustn't be shown it and that's what's so great about this.

989
00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:56.340
The twist is so good.

990
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.639
At any point, if we know this is a strategy, it doesn't work.

991
00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:02.400
So it has to play as if it's real, you know?

992
00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:03.659
Yeah.

993
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:08.940
And so this is the kissing scene and they've tussled his hair

994
00:46:10.019 --> 00:46:11.940
looks like a romantic hero a bit more now.

995
00:46:12.179 --> 00:46:15.599
And it's this thing, she's staring into his eyes and looking at

996
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:17.699
her, she's absolutely bunging it on.

997
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:18.480
That's amazing.

998
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.519
We'll wait for you.

999
00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:21.360
I'll wait for you.

1000
00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:22.260
They have a kiss, yeah.

1001
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:24.480
It's one of those horribly chaste kisses, right?

1002
00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:27.900
And then he pulls away and she grabs his head and goes, no, come

1003
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:28.079
here.

1004
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:36.179
He initiates the kiss and she is she looks surprised, but then she

1005
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:37.739
pulls him in for a proper kiss.

1006
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.119
Cheers, yeah.

1007
00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:39.780
Look at that.

1008
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:44.579
And that's her saying, I'm going to win this one.

1009
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.239
You know, like, that's absolutely what...

1010
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:49.559
Kate Mulgrew kissed me like that.

1011
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:51.539
My coach... telling you.

1012
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.179
Oh my goodness, she's so good.

1013
00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:55.739
It's so true.

1014
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:56.880
Oh my god, look at her face.

1015
00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:57.420
Got you.

1016
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.199
Yeah, no, I think it's unreadable.

1017
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:04.559
Look at that.

1018
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.059
Terrible PSO there, look.

1019
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:10.500
Yeah, look, I mean, like, that's something.

1020
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:11.340
Give us something.

1021
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:15.239
It's like a bit of a break from the standing set.

1022
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:19.079
Yeah, it is a bit shit though, isn't it?

1023
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:20.039
Unfortunate.

1024
00:47:20.099 --> 00:47:23.519
So now we've got to play out this whole music.

1025
00:47:23.579 --> 00:47:26.340
They're coming onto the ship, you know, that's all going to happen

1026
00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:26.639
again.

1027
00:47:26.699 --> 00:47:29.639
But it all happens very economically because we've seen it all at

1028
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:29.880
the beginning.

1029
00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:31.199
Because we've seen it.

1030
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:31.920
We know how it works.

1031
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:33.539
That's right That's right.

1032
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.679
Yeah, no, look what I'm trying to be intimidated. on top of them.

1033
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:39.599
Oh, look at it.

1034
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:40.260
No, no, no.

1035
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:41.579
We call her protocol.

1036
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:43.139
She's loving it.

1037
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:50.460
But I love her thing where originally in the 1st iteration, the

1038
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:54.539
1st inspection, she says, you know, give them your complete

1039
00:47:54.539 --> 00:47:58.260
cooperation, but this time it's give them your usual warm

1040
00:47:58.260 --> 00:47:59.099
welcome.

1041
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.019
Great moments like that for the run, you know.

1042
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:05.820
Don't forget where the Vadean stormed the ship.

1043
00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:08.760
She went, Ganem, Welcome to the bridge, just as the whole shit

1044
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:09.480
blew off.

1045
00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:11.940
She's amazing.

1046
00:48:12.059 --> 00:48:12.539
So good.

1047
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:22.980
Oh, yeah, the usual warm welcome. 15, 12, 8, 4, and one.

1048
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:24.480
It's so great.

1049
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:29.219
Oh my god, this is the 1st wardrobe, so I'm telling you.

1050
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:31.739
It's really terrific.

1051
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:33.659
And that smile as she goes off.

1052
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:35.460
And then how are we playing it?

1053
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:36.780
How are we playing this scene?

1054
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:38.460
Does he say to her?

1055
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:39.119
going to be back.

1056
00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:41.280
I'll be back in a minute when in that other state?

1057
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:43.980
Or does she not know he's going to be in charge of it?

1058
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:47.280
Oh, yeah, I'm not sure.

1059
00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:51.539
She, yeah, I don't think she's blindsided by this because the

1060
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:53.219
episode requires her not to be.

1061
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:55.199
She's got to know what's going to happen, I think.

1062
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:58.139
And you know what?

1063
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:02.579
Her acting ability when he plays his hat. is just phenomenal.

1064
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.480
And then Kate Mulgar is acting mobility when she plays her hat

1065
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:07.199
better.

1066
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:08.880
Oh, yeah.

1067
00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:11.880
Do you know, there was one scene that we didn't comment on, and

1068
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:16.019
it's like, they've been all a bit, you know, like all over one

1069
00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:16.619
another.

1070
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:21.659
And then she sort of sends him away and there's a security person

1071
00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:26.400
and he stands to attention and she just says as he was.

1072
00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:31.980
I bet she's like, but she kind of says it already sly for ash.

1073
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:34.019
It's so good.

1074
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:36.900
And I think it's like she's almost been caught kind of

1075
00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:40.139
fraternising with him or having too close a relationship or saying

1076
00:49:40.139 --> 00:49:41.099
something that she shouldn't.

1077
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:44.579
And so the guy goes to attention and she just... apologetic about

1078
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:46.320
it as well, which I love.

1079
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:47.820
So good.

1080
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:49.619
It's so, so good.

1081
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:52.920
I'm wondering if that was a description, though, or if that was

1082
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:53.639
Mulgrew.

1083
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:59.159
It's it's so deliberately about something though.

1084
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:01.980
It's not just a little character beat it is this.

1085
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:06.000
I'm in charge, I'm doing what I intend to do.

1086
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:07.860
There's nothing to see here.

1087
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.400
You don't have to pretend to hide behind being a soldier.

1088
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:14.760
You know, I'm, I'm in charge.

1089
00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:15.539
I'm on top of this.

1090
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:17.039
He's really brilliant.

1091
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:21.059
The way he was holding himself there, when he was back is like

1092
00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:24.599
being in charge, to the way he was holding himself a couple of

1093
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:26.159
scenes there, when he was defective.

1094
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:27.960
It's like he's a completely different person.

1095
00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:29.340
He's great good.

1096
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:30.360
Yeah, yeah.

1097
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:32.579
And all of this we know.

1098
00:50:32.579 --> 00:50:33.059
Oh here we go.

1099
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.579
Congratulations.

1100
00:50:35.579 --> 00:50:36.420
I followed you.

1101
00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:39.539
Oh.

1102
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:44.460
What's straight right now.

1103
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:49.260
But her half-hearted reaction to his debate is amazing.

1104
00:50:49.980 --> 00:50:52.860
And that sort of close up of her.

1105
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.500
Maybe she looks concerned or she's looking like she looks

1106
00:50:55.500 --> 00:51:00.719
concerned, but we're supposed to think that she's been blindsided

1107
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:02.219
by this.

1108
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:06.119
Yeah, which is why we're getting the close-up on her and him out

1109
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:11.340
of focus in the background with her reading concerned, I see.

1110
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:13.980
Look at what she says, that touching story about the little girl.

1111
00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:17.880
She's almost exposing how shit those backstories are, you know?

1112
00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:19.139
Yeah, yeah.

1113
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:19.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1114
00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:22.860
Oh, but then he uses that, doesn't he?

1115
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:25.619
He uses that story then to say this is why I do what I do.

1116
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:30.539
Oh yeah, just to reinforce how evil he is. you know, a very real

1117
00:51:30.539 --> 00:51:31.260
threat.

1118
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:32.159
We know they're not a threat.

1119
00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:34.199
They're children and families.

1120
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:36.539
It makes it more fuckable, you know, now he's really bad

1121
00:51:36.539 --> 00:51:37.260
honestly.

1122
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:38.880
Oh, and the outfit.

1123
00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:39.420
Yeah, yeah.

1124
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.400
Yeah, absolutely.

1125
00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:42.840
The uniform.

1126
00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:43.739
There's some leather.

1127
00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:46.199
When Jane wears piss.

1128
00:51:46.260 --> 00:51:47.340
It's a look, isn't it?

1129
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:48.119
It's definitely a look.

1130
00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:49.619
Look at her face.

1131
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:50.460
Yeah, yeah.

1132
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:51.719
But she looks pissed off.

1133
00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:53.039
Like she looks annoyed.

1134
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:56.940
And then we get that little close-up of her as everyone walks past

1135
00:51:56.940 --> 00:52:00.300
and she looks around the bridge and sees no one but the Vor there

1136
00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:05.159
and like she's completely defeated at this point.

1137
00:52:05.219 --> 00:52:07.139
Look at her looking at the ground as she walks.

1138
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:14.159
How she takes back this room in a minute is just...

1139
00:52:14.219 --> 00:52:17.400
It's so good and it's so quiet. she doesn't grandstand or

1140
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:17.639
anything.

1141
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:19.619
Cisco would. wouldn't he?

1142
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:20.699
Yeah, yeah.

1143
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:21.480
Yeah.

1144
00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:25.559
No, she completely just so gray.

1145
00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:26.880
So good.

1146
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.860
All right, here we go.

1147
00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:31.860
With anything we're missing. not there yet.

1148
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.039
On the edge of my seat, some space sheet is happening.

1149
00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:39.300
You just need him to go, oh, curse, it's foiled again or something

1150
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:39.900
like that.

1151
00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:43.500
But this whole thing, look, they say it out.

1152
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:45.719
So it's like, yep, the torpedoes are destinating.

1153
00:52:45.780 --> 00:52:46.860
The transporter's going.

1154
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:51.659
And so the transporter goes and then it cuts away and I think we

1155
00:52:51.659 --> 00:52:56.579
have to know then, like that's how we know. like we we see the

1156
00:52:56.579 --> 00:52:57.000
patterns.

1157
00:52:57.059 --> 00:52:59.639
It looks like they're about to appear, but we cut away from it.

1158
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:02.460
Is that when we know that they're gone?

1159
00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:04.139
They're not on board anymore, surely.

1160
00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:05.699
I think so.

1161
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:06.840
Yeah, I think so.

1162
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:10.260
Look, I have fun. she's not unmoving.

1163
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:12.179
Yeah.

1164
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:13.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1165
00:53:13.380 --> 00:53:16.500
She's waiting for him to catch up.

1166
00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:18.840
To say this incredibly great line.

1167
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:21.840
You created false readings that is the theme for this evening

1168
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:22.559
isn't it?

1169
00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:24.059
It's so good.

1170
00:53:24.179 --> 00:53:25.739
It's so great.

1171
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:30.539
That's the moment where she...

1172
00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:31.559
Vegetables.

1173
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:33.599
And you know.

1174
00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:34.800
He didn't even have to say it.

1175
00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:37.619
You know that none of this is going to go on the record because he

1176
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:41.579
couldn't be shown to be, you know. to be beaten.

1177
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:43.139
Yeah, let's do some mullet.

1178
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:47.519
Now she's picking the music and she's trying to get him to relax.

1179
00:53:47.579 --> 00:53:49.019
Yep.

1180
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:53.460
And so they've absolutely reversed roles from their 1st scene.

1181
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:54.840
It's so good.

1182
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:56.519
It's so well done.

1183
00:53:56.579 --> 00:53:57.659
Oh goodness.

1184
00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:00.840
It's funny, isn't it?

1185
00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:05.760
The space shit is actually the main tedious part of this.

1186
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:12.179
And in fact, you know, the best thing about it is just 2 people in

1187
00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:12.900
a room talking.

1188
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:14.760
Yeah, I told you a minute.

1189
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.039
I think that's the best of trait.

1190
00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:19.860
I think that's the best of trait is fantastic characters.

1191
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:26.699
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I think that here, though, there's

1192
00:54:26.699 --> 00:54:29.639
some good writing, there's that one hot refugee, the bald one.

1193
00:54:29.699 --> 00:54:32.280
We don't really find out much about these, which I do comment on.

1194
00:54:32.340 --> 00:54:34.320
They're just, the innocent mix.

1195
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:36.480
Yeah.

1196
00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:38.639
Off down the wormhole now.

1197
00:54:38.699 --> 00:54:39.420
That could have led it.

1198
00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:41.760
I could have led that could lead to earth, you know, that.

1199
00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:45.539
Yeah, no, it was just a little wormhole that led outside the

1200
00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:46.079
divora.

1201
00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:47.579
They were going to go through, weren't they?

1202
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:49.679
I didn't realise you had a map.

1203
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:54.780
No, but I think they were going to go through uh, afterwards and

1204
00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:57.900
follow them, but they can't do it because the ship's full of, of

1205
00:54:57.900 --> 00:54:59.760
um, Devore.

1206
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:04.800
It's great seeing him out of control and properly angry too.

1207
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:07.380
Like that's how you know you.

1208
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:08.400
Yeah, yeah.

1209
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:10.440
Well, she's he's trying to get her angry.

1210
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:14.099
I think he's trying to irritate her in that 1st scene and so once

1211
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:17.880
he's angry, he congratulates her.

1212
00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:18.840
Like, well done.

1213
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:21.539
You beat me.

1214
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:25.739
I had to take a few.

1215
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:26.340
For gosh.

1216
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:27.119
Do you understand?

1217
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:32.400
Look, and now she's going, oh, kiss, he missed it.

1218
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:33.780
Just to piss him off.

1219
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:36.239
It's great.

1220
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:40.980
If those parallel suits had any doubt, those shoes came full

1221
00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:42.239
spearheaded in this show.

1222
00:55:42.300 --> 00:55:43.320
Jeez Louise.

1223
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:45.179
She's so good.

1224
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:49.079
Just so tremendous I don't believe the tempting offer.

1225
00:55:49.139 --> 00:55:50.820
I just don't buy anything he says.

1226
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:51.900
I like that.

1227
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:52.800
No, I quite like that.

1228
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:57.420
Because I think I'm wondering if he's trapped in, you know...

1229
00:55:57.539 --> 00:55:59.280
Well, you know what?

1230
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:00.239
It has a little layout.

1231
00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:01.800
Just a little.

1232
00:56:01.860 --> 00:56:02.460
Yeah, yeah.

1233
00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:05.760
Oh, and I love the music keeps playing as the ship sort of dance

1234
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:07.139
off away from...

1235
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:07.920
Yeah, yeah.

1236
00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:12.059
We get some good music over that closing shop. shot pulling back

1237
00:56:12.059 --> 00:56:13.320
from her on the bridge.

1238
00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:14.519
Yeah.

1239
00:56:14.579 --> 00:56:16.199
Terrific.

1240
00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:17.099
Yeah.

1241
00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:20.099
Nathan, why isn't Voyager always this good?

1242
00:56:20.579 --> 00:56:24.960
Wow, well, Star Trek is not usually this one I see.

1243
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:32.880
Look, I think that the problems, I think that this is a show that

1244
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:37.079
could only be done in the Voyager context.

1245
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:41.820
And you never see the enterprise, you know, when it's on its home

1246
00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:44.579
turf, it can never be so completely.

1247
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.760
You remember Starship Mine where the ship is taken over?

1248
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:49.260
That's sort of a bit rare.

1249
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:51.420
Oh, the binars take it over that one time.

1250
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:52.079
Who knows?

1251
00:56:52.139 --> 00:56:52.980
But whatever.

1252
00:56:53.099 --> 00:57:00.900
But having this sort of having them encounter a society that just

1253
00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:04.619
completely kind of overcomes them and then watching them get out

1254
00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:07.500
of it, which happens in the killing game as well, is something

1255
00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:10.559
that I think only Voyager's premise allowed.

1256
00:57:10.619 --> 00:57:13.920
Well, I think the killing game could probably play out on one of

1257
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:14.460
the other shows.

1258
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:17.159
It could just be in a region of space and they take over the

1259
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:17.400
ship.

1260
00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:20.099
But this is like an area of space, isn't it?

1261
00:57:20.219 --> 00:57:21.000
they're going through.

1262
00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:27.000
So, and it's quite rare, I think, there's probably only a handful

1263
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:28.679
maybe a season's worth of episodes.

1264
00:57:28.739 --> 00:57:32.820
You could say that is distinctly uniquely Voyager.

1265
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:33.300
Yeah.

1266
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:36.960
Well, I think the trouble is the Enterprise can always call home

1267
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:39.000
you know, like it's always sort of near home.

1268
00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:42.420
You can always just phone up Bob April on the subspace thing and

1269
00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:46.679
just sort of say hi, Admiral Lachayev.

1270
00:57:46.739 --> 00:57:53.519
Um, whereas Voyager's isolation, uh, means that that sort of story

1271
00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:54.239
can be done.

1272
00:57:54.300 --> 00:57:59.460
And look, I mean, I think that they start with the intention that

1273
00:57:59.460 --> 00:58:03.000
they have all of these exciting things happening in the premise

1274
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:06.360
and that's what they're going to do, and then they just discover

1275
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:09.119
they're just rehashing old Star Trek episodes over and over

1276
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:09.420
again.

1277
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:12.840
And yeah, it is a bit of a shame.

1278
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:16.679
But as well, you know, I don't think, I don't think this would

1279
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:18.119
have played out half as well.

1280
00:58:18.179 --> 00:58:22.380
It was the same episode, but we're a male captain and a female

1281
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:27.780
antagonist coming in. very different, wouldn't it?

1282
00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:34.440
Yeah, and so, like I say, it's one of those kind of rare moments

1283
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:39.059
where they really give Kate Mulgrew an acting showcase.

1284
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:43.739
Yeah, well, there's a there's a kind of power thing in that

1285
00:58:43.739 --> 00:58:45.480
relationship, isn't there?

1286
00:58:45.539 --> 00:58:49.019
Which, uh, which makes it a little bit different.

1287
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:50.760
I think it's so good It is really great.

1288
00:58:50.820 --> 00:58:53.639
So yes, I think this could only be done with a female captain and

1289
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.199
can probably only be done on Voyager.

1290
00:58:55.260 --> 00:59:00.780
And like with that power dynamic, if, like, he kind of gives her

1291
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:03.239
or no, I'll say, he gives her space to be in charge.

1292
00:59:03.300 --> 00:59:05.820
She doesn't give him any space to be in charge.

1293
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:08.820
But if he had tried to dominate those things in any way.

1294
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.940
I know, it just, it could have been played very differently.

1295
00:59:12.059 --> 00:59:12.300
Yeah.

1296
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.860
Yeah, I mean, you know, everyone sort of compares her to Catherine

1297
00:59:16.860 --> 00:59:19.739
Hepburn and Catherine Hepburn is sort of famous for that sort of

1298
00:59:19.739 --> 00:59:24.659
um, you know, sort of screwball comedy romance thing.

1299
00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:27.780
And I think they're leaning into that a little bit here.

1300
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:31.260
It's not sort of withy dialogue or anything like that, but it is

1301
00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:36.300
the 2 of them getting together as kind of equals in that all

1302
00:59:36.300 --> 00:59:39.239
nighter with the coffee in the mess hall, where the relationship

1303
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:41.519
really appears to land.

1304
00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:43.260
And I think it works incredibly well.

1305
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:46.440
They're needling each other a little bit, but they're mostly on

1306
00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:49.320
the same page, except that we know that it's all being faked.

1307
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:52.079
Uh, which makes it so great.

1308
00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:55.860
I think, I think it's a really properly solid script that is about

1309
00:59:55.860 --> 00:59:58.860
something and it's not about politics or anything like that

1310
00:59:58.860 --> 00:59:59.880
although that comes into it.

1311
00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:05.880
It's just about this central relationship, these 2 acting

1312
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:06.300
performances.

1313
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:08.880
I'm going to, to finish, I'm going to circle it round back to

1314
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:09.840
again.

1315
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:12.840
You said you wanted a big love informal group, you're going to get

1316
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:12.960
it.

1317
01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:17.880
In 2 episodes time, you have Bride of Chaotica, where she plays

1318
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:22.559
Queen Arachnia, head of the Spider People, in the most fabulous

1319
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.500
pantomimic performance you've ever seen in Star Trek.

1320
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:27.420
And then later in the season.

1321
01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:33.179
She gets to do 1159 where she plays Janeway's ancestor.

1322
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:34.860
Oh, yeah.

1323
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:40.380
And she gives a really different, gentle, beautiful performance in

1324
01:00:40.380 --> 01:00:40.739
that as well.

1325
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:43.860
Like, She's diverse.

1326
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:45.360
You know, she's she's just amazing.

1327
01:00:45.420 --> 01:00:48.599
Sorry, I just want to bring those 2 up because I think they give

1328
01:00:48.599 --> 01:00:50.340
her the same thing to do over and over again.

1329
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:52.980
She saw with baseball, she's the scientist, she's the captain

1330
01:00:52.980 --> 01:00:53.219
whatever.

1331
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.119
But when they kind of give her something incredible to do.

1332
01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:04.800
She might be possibly the best leader of a Star Trek show.

1333
01:01:04.860 --> 01:01:06.780
Yeah, I think she's definitely up there.

1334
01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:07.500
I make that case.

1335
01:01:11.699 --> 01:01:17.219
All right, it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode.

1336
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:22.980
So Joe is at untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser and

1337
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:25.679
tell us what series we're choosing from.

1338
01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:30.960
I'm gonna be a little bit predictable, I'm afraid. and do, I'm

1339
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:31.739
going to follow Pat.

1340
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:34.380
We've had for the last 2 weeks and I'm going to include every Star

1341
01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:34.920
Trek show.

1342
01:01:34.980 --> 01:01:38.579
I don't feel like singling out any shows this week.

1343
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:43.559
We run out of ideas as far as I understand, I think it is.

1344
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:46.619
No, no, no, no, because I think we if this isn't occurs when

1345
01:01:46.619 --> 01:01:49.679
episode, we kind of need to head back there fairly soon. because

1346
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:51.239
we've done a couple of nights.

1347
01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:51.539
Yeah.

1348
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:53.820
But let's just see what we get, shall we?

1349
01:01:54.179 --> 01:01:55.619
Okay.

1350
01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:57.179
Press the button.

1351
01:01:57.239 --> 01:01:58.139
Okey-dokey.

1352
01:01:58.199 --> 01:02:03.300
Your random Star Trek, lower decks episode is...

1353
01:02:03.300 --> 01:02:06.300
Season one, episode for Moist Vessel.

1354
01:02:08.699 --> 01:02:12.780
Yes, I think that is actually a pretty great one.

1355
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:14.760
We've only done one of those.

1356
01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:15.900
Moist.

1357
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:18.900
Yeah, we should probably do another lower decks episode, you

1358
01:02:18.900 --> 01:02:19.079
know.

1359
01:02:19.139 --> 01:02:24.360
Yeah, so it's like there's a thing that turns the ship into kind

1360
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.699
of plant matter or something like that.

1361
01:02:26.820 --> 01:02:28.800
I'm struggling to remember which one it is.

1362
01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.639
Am I right about that?

1363
01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:33.599
Yeah, no, it's a thing that tariff is a sort of terraforming ship

1364
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:39.840
that turns the ship into sort of pliant matter and stuff like

1365
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:40.079
that.

1366
01:02:40.139 --> 01:02:44.460
It's a very cartoony premise, but it's pretty funny.

1367
01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:46.679
Well, it's Star Trek Lower Decks.

1368
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:47.699
What do think?

1369
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.400
Oh, no, I'm terribly sorry, but I have already pressed the farm

1370
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:50.820
again.

1371
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:51.719
You've pressed again.

1372
01:02:51.780 --> 01:02:52.320
I have, yeah.

1373
01:02:52.380 --> 01:02:53.579
Oh, it's number Voyager episode.

1374
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:55.260
So we won't do this, so I'll press it again.

1375
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:56.400
We've just done a voyage.

1376
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:57.119
Okay, but what is it?

1377
01:02:57.179 --> 01:02:59.880
If you have to tell us what it is. which is another cracking

1378
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:00.179
episode.

1379
01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:02.159
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1380
01:03:02.219 --> 01:03:03.900
That's another past one, isn't it?

1381
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:05.039
We go back into the past.

1382
01:03:05.099 --> 01:03:05.940
No, no, no, no.

1383
01:03:06.059 --> 01:03:08.880
It's the season 6 episode with Barclay and Troy.

1384
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:10.139
Oh, wait.

1385
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:11.039
Pathfinder project.

1386
01:03:11.099 --> 01:03:11.820
Yes, of course.

1387
01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:13.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1388
01:03:13.860 --> 01:03:15.960
Oh, is Deanna in that?

1389
01:03:16.019 --> 01:03:17.519
Are you going to do Primus of Deanna?

1390
01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:19.920
God, you're obsessed with the woman, honestly.

1391
01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:20.940
Okay.

1392
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:21.480
Okay.

1393
01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:26.639
Your random Star Trek discovery episode is The Wolf Inside.

1394
01:03:26.699 --> 01:03:29.340
Season one, episode 11.

1395
01:03:29.579 --> 01:03:32.639
Oh, so the wolf inside is a reference to the fact that Ash is

1396
01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:33.599
really vogue.

1397
01:03:33.659 --> 01:03:35.519
Uh, I think.

1398
01:03:35.639 --> 01:03:39.780
It's always a bit hard to tell with discovery because it's so

1399
01:03:39.780 --> 01:03:42.960
serialised because the episode titles are so opaque.

1400
01:03:43.019 --> 01:03:43.920
Okay.

1401
01:03:43.980 --> 01:03:45.719
I'll press it again.

1402
01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:46.260
I'm so sorry.

1403
01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:47.219
Okay.

1404
01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:50.940
Your random Star Trek, the original series episode is series 3.

1405
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:51.840
Oh, there.

1406
01:03:51.900 --> 01:03:52.980
Episode 15.

1407
01:03:53.340 --> 01:03:56.460
Let that be your last battlefield.

1408
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:58.860
Oh, you know what, when that is?

1409
01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:00.059
Is that the one with the half?

1410
01:04:00.179 --> 01:04:00.960
Yeah.

1411
01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:02.579
Black, half, white face.

1412
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:03.179
Yeah.

1413
01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:03.420
Yeah.

1414
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:04.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1415
01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:06.840
Okay, well, like...

1416
01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:07.199
Sorry.

1417
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:10.559
This is the last time I shall press the button, okay?

1418
01:04:10.619 --> 01:04:13.559
Because a discovery episode, we're doing it no matter what.

1419
01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:18.840
Your random Star Trek Discovery episode is but to connect season

1420
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:20.280
four, episode seven.

1421
01:04:21.539 --> 01:04:31.619
So this is the mid-season finale for series 4 and it features kind

1422
01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:36.300
of the introduction of a new character and a big kind of break

1423
01:04:36.300 --> 01:04:42.420
between Book and Michael and a huge kind of political thing.

1424
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:44.280
There a massive political meeting and stuff like that.

1425
01:04:44.340 --> 01:04:49.559
And I think it's really interesting because I think it leads to

1426
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:54.599
the strongest run of episodes Discovery ever has, which is coming

1427
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:59.280
back at the beginning of the year with just a run of episodes

1428
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:03.480
towards the series 4 finale, which reaches a satisfying end, is

1429
01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:08.639
serialised but tells a coherent story every episode, and does some

1430
01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:09.840
proper science fiction.

1431
01:05:09.900 --> 01:05:15.179
So this is a little bit of a kind of big episode leading into a

1432
01:05:15.179 --> 01:05:17.159
run of really very strong episodes.

1433
01:05:17.219 --> 01:05:18.420
Well, I'm going to do something.

1434
01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:19.260
Maybe press a button again.

1435
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.360
Oh, well, do you think we should?

1436
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:22.440
No.

1437
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:23.579
No, no, no, I think we should do it.

1438
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.579
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1439
01:05:35.579 --> 01:05:36.840
and Nathan Bottomley.

1440
01:05:36.900 --> 01:05:40.500
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find

1441
01:05:40.500 --> 01:05:42.780
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1442
01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:46.739
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1443
01:05:46.739 --> 01:05:48.239
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1444
01:05:48.300 --> 01:05:52.559
This episode was recorded on the 14th of June 2022 and released on

1445
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:53.639
the 26th of June.

1446
01:05:53.699 --> 01:05:57.659
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Discovery, but to connect.

1447
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:18.420
No, no, no, let's do it, but I'm gonna do something.

1448
01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:20.460
I've not seen season four of Discovery.

1449
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:24.300
I'm going to watch the 1st 7 episodes of Discovery.

1450
01:06:24.300 --> 01:06:25.440
Oh, okay.

1451
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:27.960
Leaving out for this, but I'll know nothing beyond it.

1452
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:30.239
Okay, all right.

1453
01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:31.079
That's interesting.

1454
01:06:31.139 --> 01:06:32.159
That sounds like a good plan.

1455
01:06:32.219 --> 01:06:36.179
And this is a season that you have hyped to some degree.

1456
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:39.539
So I am looking forward to see if it lives up to that.

1457
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:42.059
Yeah, I think it's really good.

1458
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:45.420
All right.

1459
01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:45.780
Okay.

1460
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:46.800
That's an interesting one.

1461
01:06:46.860 --> 01:06:48.300
Now, listen, you got a scoop.

1462
01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:49.980
I'm gonna press stop.

1463
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.880
I have to scoot because I've got Alfie yelling at me in the other

1464
01:06:53.880 --> 01:06:55.079
room. so hot.

1465
01:06:55.139 --> 01:06:56.099
I need to go south.

1466
01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:57.000
I went for 10 minutes.

1467
01:06:57.059 --> 01:06:58.139
I'm roasting.