WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:05:11

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, I'm blaming you for all of this, and I want you to recount for

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us the sequence of events that led up to us watching dramatis

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persona today.

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Well, I see, there is a fact that I love Deep Space Nine. and it's

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my favourite Star Trek show.

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I think I may have mentioned that once or twice.

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Once or twice.

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Now, what have we done so far?

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House of Cork, which was pretty good.

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Take me out to the Holo Suite, which is a top tenor for you.

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Monumental. and in the Power Moonlight, which a few minor niggles

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aside is considered a bit of a classic. and Blaze of Glory, which

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we said was pretty good as well. bit crummy.

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Apart from me.

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Leave me.

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I'm just holding back.

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So what I wanted to do was because we've done a fair number of

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crappy TNG episodes.

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I want us to finally do a DS9 dud, and I was going to keep

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pressing that button until I got one.

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And dramatis personae, I think, that sounds so English, dramatis

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personae, came up pretty quickly, and I've got to say, I'm going

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to make a confession.

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I think this might be the worst episode that we have watched so

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far of anything of anything.

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I think this is probably worse than that strange new Wales episode

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of Enterprise.

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Yeah, yeah.

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What about Sub-Rosa?

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No, but that was fun.

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It was camp.

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It was ridiculous.

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That's it.

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I agree.

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This was boring, like eye glazingly boring.

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And there seem to be no stakes.

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I wasn't quite sure what was going on.

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I guess maybe Kira and Ben were going to kill one another, but it

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was very, very hard to care, I found.

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I couldn't really figure out the mystery behind it. you know, what

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the puzzle was, what the point of that was.

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The characterisation they gave everybody was so off kilter and

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bizarre.

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I kind of feel, I feel like have this here, maybe not long after

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emissary, and that would be doing that season one thing of making

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everyone act out of character before we figured out who they are.

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Baffling season one thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But had this hit then, because Kira and Cisco had a very turbulent

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relationship in those 1st couple of episodes.

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And this might have made a bit more sense then because what

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happens is once they're taken over, Cisco and Kira have a very

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turbulent relationship.

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But we've kind of moved beyond that a little bit now, you know?

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I mean, I think that, well, look, as I was watching it most of the

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time I was thinking about what would have to happen to this script

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for it to be anything, like about anything.

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Like, what did they even think they were doing?

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And I have a kind of vague idea about that?

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But I might get into it once we actually get going.

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What I wanted to ask you, though, like, series one of Deep Space 9

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has some really standout episodes in it, doesn't it?

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Yes.

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Yeah, I think it certainly has better 1st season episodes than TNG

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managed to achieve.

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Yeah.

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The bar is not high, but yeah.

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But it is the 2nd Star Trek that they've launched, and so they

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have definitely learned stuff in the intervening time.

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And so I always think of progress, which I think is really good.

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The smaller sort of intense character episodes that really hear.

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Vortex is really good.

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That's the one with Odo where it goes off into that nebula with a

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guy.

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Duet, obviously, which comes after this.

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Well, another another.

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Another era and a big guest actor episode.

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Yeah, so it's all, but it's whenever they start doing like sub-TNG

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episodes.

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And I can see what they're doing now.

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I think they even admitted that they were trying to bring in the

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tits, so they've got Lerser and Beto, Q, Luaxana, Troy, like

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they're all thrown in there in season one to see how and some of

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it works.

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Some of it really doesn't work.

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So is this them trying to scale the heights that Star Trek, the

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next generation's power place scaled.

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They're doing this all high concept sci-fi episodes, which they

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basically ditch sort of couple series 4, where they've got their

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own mythology, their own set of characters and their own arcs, and

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they just sort of run with those, but you've got episodes in this

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1st season, like, um, they would be next generation episodes.

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If wishes were horses, you know, when the baseball player and

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Rumple still Skinner Pierce.

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What else have you got out?

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Move along home is absolutely a TNG episode.

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And then the Babel.

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Yeah, the asphasiac virus episodes.

101
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Yeah, yep.

102
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You know, I watched that before this. is abysmally bad.

103
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Dear.

104
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Yeah.

105
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But this one as well.

106
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This is this is a TNG episode, isn't it?

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This doesn't feel like DS9 at all.

108
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No, but it feels like a bad TNG episode.

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Like a much, like, power play, for instance, is the closest that I

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can think of.

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And there at least you have some characters, you know, regulars

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aren't sort of just behaving out of character.

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There are 3 people who are very specifically characterised who are

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trying to do a thing and we defeat them.

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And we thought it was sort of unambitious, but you got to see

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Deanna kind of firing guns at people and stuff and there's a

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pleasure to be.

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It had a tiny bit of pace to it, some style sort of direction.

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Like, this was so flat.

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It's all done on DS9 and it's at that point in series one where it

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all feels a bit claustrophobic.

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I don't know what they do.

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I don't even think that they light it better later on or something

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like that, but it feels like a bit opened out.

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Whereas this just felt very enclosed.

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Yeah.

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So that means it's cheap.

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They not wanting to light, maybe they're not wanting to light the

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whole set or something.

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I mean, we just watched the 1st episode of a new series of Star

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Trek and it looked amazing and it knew that its job was to look

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amazing.

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And I've seen the 2nd episode and the 3rd episode since then, and

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it's continued to put as one of its kind of major goals, major

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creative goals is to look weird. and to look impressive.

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This has 3 special effects.

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They're really boring.

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It's everyone is just talking in the standing sense.

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It's our regulars, all talking to one another in the standing

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sets.

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We don't want to spend any money this week on anything at all.

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And it's so boring and so dull to look at. particularly these sets

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that have no reflective surfaces.

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Oh for goodness sakes.

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You were reflective services.

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I do want to say...

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Strange New Worlds has lots of reflective surfaces.

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I do want to say about the DS9 sets.

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Like they were just be proud at the time of these and they were

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incredible sets at the time.

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Like, nothing like those tedious TNG, you know, like the bridge

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and things like that in the corridors.

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And they were trying to light it differently.

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I get that they're trying to showcase it a bit.

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Yeah.

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But with this dreary ass episode with this plot.

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Oh, so, so bad.

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It's terrible.

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Um, I've got a few quotes to throw at you before we go in because

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I've got a feeling that the production team believes that this is

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actually a successful episode, uh, which baffles me because even

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Ira Bay, that's usually pretty hard on this sort of thing.

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You know, he writes off, let he who is without sin in season

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five.

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Well, wow.

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It's got Vanessa Williams in it. you know.

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Yeah, that's true.

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That's a beat right off.

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But they could have thrown Vanessa Williams into this one and

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improved at substantially, I think.

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I think maybe you might find the motive behind this episode in

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this quote.

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And you ain't going to like it either.

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Was it we were running out of money?

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He says, it was a 3rd season show that we had the nerve to do in

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the 1st season.

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Anybody else would say, you need to know the characters better

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before you twist them like this.

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Yeah.

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But seeing Kira come onto Dax, I don't care if it's our 1st or 3rd

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season, people are going to be interested in that.

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Yes, that's it.

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Non-threatening homosexual people.

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It's uh, it's a thing.

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It's actually a little bit of a deep space 9 thing, isn't it?

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Like, um, like the intendant, you know, they're sort of casual

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lesbianism to titillate the male viewer.

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It's a bit tedious.

189
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Well, yeah, but it's like the same thing about the motive about

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you know, 7 of 9, the Borg babe and pouring her into that suit.

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It's what you said about 90s treks and why sexuality was so

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terribly handled.

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So embarrassing.

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It's these people on the screen.

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That's right.

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I'm saying none of it's Ter and Terry Farrell, you know, getting

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up close and personal.

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That's enough of a motive for an episode.

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So tame as well, for God's sake.

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What else have we got here?

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Hang on.

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Arman Shimman says, I love the episode.

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I love the fact that the revolution broke out.

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Even though it wasn't a real revolution.

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I still love the conflict between Cisco and Kira, a person who is

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national and who I only thinks about world first.

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So they're all trying to put like a greater meaning into this than

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I was seeing, if I'm honest.

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Michael Piller, who, you know, we've said, basically turned around

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TNG when he came in.

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He says it's a somewhat low budget episode.

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Really?

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Oh, yeah.

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But with very interesting great performances.

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See, I beg to differ because I think...

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They are really terrible.

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And I think...

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Colomini is especially terrible in this.

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I think he's usually pretty reliable.

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You know, props to see it as well. pulls off a pretty shockingly

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bad.

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In fact, I think he's the 1st person to absolutely fuck this

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episode up.

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And it was the moment that I saw him and I'll point it out when we

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get to it where I thought, oh, no, this is this is just going to

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go horribly wrong.

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Well, do you know who wrote this before we go in?

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No, God.

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Well, never guess.

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He's weird ass, science, joke, joke.

231
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Manosky's back with his crazy arse masks.

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Sometimes he hits.

233
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I think masks is good.

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Mask is terrible. are you talking about?

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I can't wait to see it again.

236
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Musaka is unhappy with your...

237
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Yeah, yeah.

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Masaka is delicious.

239
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All right.

240
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What do you reckon?

241
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Oh, no. you got someone else?

242
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I've got one more thing to say to you before I go in.

243
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Okay, because Manosky says there's a motive or a reason why

244
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Cisco's making a clock in this episode.

245
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What do you imagine that is?

246
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Oh, God, shut up.

247
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He doesn't know what time it is and he would quite like to know.

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You are so cheap.

249
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You're so cheap. a plausible reason.

250
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What's the other reason?

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Shut up.

252
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He's supposed to be an obsessive quirky Emperor Rudolph type who

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fussed about with mechanical bits and pieces.

254
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I didn't get that at all from these.

255
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No.

256
00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:45.000
Did anyone give him the note?

257
00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:50.759
There is one thing about that clock which I quite like, and again

258
00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:52.679
I'll let you know about it when we get there.

259
00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:54.539
Yes, quite pretty.

260
00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:55.259
That's about it.

261
00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:56.940
No, I've got another thing.

262
00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:57.779
Oh okay.

263
00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:58.980
All right.

264
00:11:59.039 --> 00:11:59.700
All right.

265
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:00.600
What do you think?

266
00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:01.139
Should we go?

267
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:03.419
I think we should watch this classic, don't you?

268
00:12:03.539 --> 00:12:08.460
I think we should 45 minutes and 27 seconds of our lives.

269
00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:09.960
Okay.

270
00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.340
At least we're together.

271
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:13.200
That's true.

272
00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:18.600
That's what we can say about...

273
00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:20.580
At least we're suffering together.

274
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.379
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

275
00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:23.700
Nope, that makes it worthwhile.

276
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.299
And maybe just maybe we're making some of the listeners at home

277
00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:28.080
suffer as well.

278
00:12:28.259 --> 00:12:29.940
All right.

279
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.559
Here goes.

280
00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:38.039
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

281
00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:40.200
Yes, we are.

282
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.840
Establish DS 9.

283
00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:45.299
Yeah, this cost no money because they had it already.

284
00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:47.700
This costs no money.

285
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:49.379
Gosh, I have to say...

286
00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:50.639
You cannot spend the entire episode.

287
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:52.019
This costs no money.

288
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.639
I reckon.

289
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:57.120
None of the episodes cost a bloody penny.

290
00:12:57.179 --> 00:12:57.720
All right?

291
00:12:57.779 --> 00:13:00.480
Yeah, no, they were paying these people anyway.

292
00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:02.879
It doesn't matter whether they do anything or not.

293
00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:06.659
Oh, I'm always obsessed by the decoration in the rooms.

294
00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.460
You see that light on the wall there?

295
00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:09.899
Is it supposed to be a bit like a submarine?

296
00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.360
Yeah, no, it's an oyster light.

297
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:13.139
That's the thing.

298
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:14.940
They were very, they were very period.

299
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.019
I really liked them.

300
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:17.279
I think that it looks very good.

301
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:18.419
You know what?

302
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.860
I just, I, the, the Cisco and Kira look in season one is a thing

303
00:13:22.860 --> 00:13:23.220
isn't it?

304
00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.799
Cisco is like safe dad, Avery Brooks.

305
00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:26.940
Yeah, yeah.

306
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.940
Because from the off, they wanted him to have his shaved head and

307
00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:33.779
his goatee, but Paramount exec said, no, no, a bit too dangerous

308
00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:35.340
for Star Trek, you know?

309
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:36.120
Yeah.

310
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.360
And Kira, well, I'm not sure what's going on there.

311
00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:40.200
I'm questioning that.

312
00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:42.840
I mean, I'm questioning no sexuality anyway in this episode

313
00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:43.799
but...

314
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.200
Well, I don't know that I don't think it's a queer haircut.

315
00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.100
I do think it is a lady from, you know, human resources, though

316
00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:51.360
probably.

317
00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:56.519
You know, like it's it's very American and very 90s, I think.

318
00:13:56.580 --> 00:13:58.500
Can I tell you something?

319
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:00.659
Oh, sorry, I won't let you talking about it.

320
00:14:02.100 --> 00:14:04.620
She tripped over during this episode, right?

321
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:09.720
And was admitted to hospital and instead of treating her wound

322
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.340
they thought her nose was broken.

323
00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:15.539
She said her makeup on...

324
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.779
Oh my god, your nose.

325
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:19.379
What's happened?

326
00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:22.620
Sorry, what were you going to say?

327
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:23.399
Oh, dear.

328
00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:31.740
Well, so this conflict here between Kira and Cisco, like this is a

329
00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:34.679
thing that happens in a few season one episodes with Kira, isn't

330
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:34.799
it?

331
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:41.039
Where she is kind of adjusting to the kind of political reality of

332
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.379
a post-war Bajor, and she's kind of trying to work out how much

333
00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.639
she can continue to sort of prosecute the, you know, like pay back

334
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.559
the things that happened.

335
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:56.700
And obviously duet is very much about that.

336
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:01.620
In past prologue, which is the 2nd episode after emissary.

337
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:02.340
Yeah.

338
00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:04.259
They have...

339
00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:05.460
We just missed a special effect.

340
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.720
Well, an explosion.

341
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:07.860
It was a bit boring, though.

342
00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:10.379
We'll skip over that.

343
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.139
Like most of the special effects in this episode.

344
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.580
And the tension between him and that is really to a point where

345
00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:21.120
she goes to a Starfleet Admiral and like grasses him up.

346
00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:24.480
And then the admiral tells Cisco and then Cisco says, if you go

347
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:26.759
over my head again, I'll have yours on a platter.

348
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.379
It's a great thing.

349
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.879
But the payoff for it is in battle lines where she's down on the

350
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.879
planet and she realises she has got to take this man off the

351
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:36.240
planet.

352
00:15:36.299 --> 00:15:39.120
Otherwise he's going to be killed because they're going to sap

353
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.620
this moon of his atmosphere.

354
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:46.620
And Cisco beams down and in a beautifully acted scene, says to her

355
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:49.500
you're on the other side now, like you've got to get used to

356
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:49.740
this.

357
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.860
You said battle lines, but I think you meant progress.

358
00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:54.059
I do mean progress.

359
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:54.360
Sorry.

360
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:55.080
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

361
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:56.519
And that's a lovely payoff.

362
00:15:56.580 --> 00:16:00.059
And then the other payoff is in it's a bit overplayed at the end

363
00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:03.960
of the duet, but where she realises that not every Kardassian is

364
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:04.860
the enemy anymore.

365
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:06.960
So she goes on a really nice journey.

366
00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:10.139
Unfortunately, this is the one point in the season where this

367
00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:11.580
tension does not work.

368
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:17.399
But I mean, there is a sense in which what they could have done is

369
00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:25.500
make this conflict that ends up happening be a mirror of the

370
00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:27.539
conflict that they're having.

371
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:32.039
And so we get to see, in a sense, what happens if that conflict

372
00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:36.299
isn't dealt with if they don't find a way of kind of accommodating

373
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:36.899
each other?

374
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:40.320
But the moment they all start doing silly voices and being

375
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:42.659
different people, it all goes out the window.

376
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.659
If it had been this space thing that was causing them to plot

377
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:51.899
against one another, like the people on the Klingon ship, and

378
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:56.940
you've got, you've got them getting out of control in a plausible

379
00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:00.600
way in a way that's consistent with their characters, something

380
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.480
that just might happen in a certain circumstance.

381
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.579
And and then you've got Odo investigating and coming to the

382
00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:11.039
conclusion, 0 my god, this is what happened on the Klingon ship as

383
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:11.279
well.

384
00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:13.019
That's interesting.

385
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.779
It should have been subtle enough that for a while.

386
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.359
This could actually have been playing out anyway.

387
00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:19.380
Yeah exactly.

388
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:20.279
Yeah.

389
00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:23.880
But unfortunately, is that thing is Star Trek, the 2nd you ask

390
00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:28.980
people to play, you know, I've been taking over acting, they just

391
00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:32.099
they, they go completely in every direction to where, to where

392
00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:32.819
they normally play it.

393
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:39.059
But I think that the the mistake was saying, all right, these are

394
00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:43.319
people being inhabited by the personality of these people.

395
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:48.359
And so you've got Cisco who's sort of weird and and sleazy Kira

396
00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:53.579
and sort of Ditsy Dax and stuff.

397
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:55.259
Do you know what?

398
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:56.220
I'm not sure.

399
00:17:56.220 --> 00:17:58.500
Terry Power knew how to act at this point in the show.

400
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:03.539
No, I, look, I, I actually kind of like, I actually secretly like

401
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:06.480
that more than anything else because...

402
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.000
She's sitting there, like kind of looking off into space and then

403
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.339
just starts going...

404
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.859
It happens quite early on.

405
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:14.640
I really like it.

406
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:16.680
But, but it's stupid.

407
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:18.420
Like, and so this is about nothing.

408
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.420
This is about a conflict between people that we don't know about.

409
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:22.740
We don't even know their names.

410
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:23.519
We don't care.

411
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:24.359
They're all dead.

412
00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:26.039
Like, like, what?

413
00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.039
We learn nothing about our characters and we learn nothing about

414
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.420
the people that are inhabiting them.

415
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:31.799
So what's the fucking point?

416
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:33.359
No, exactly.

417
00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:35.759
And that's, I mean, this was Cursman Track.

418
00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:40.079
And you have proven time and again that thematically whatever

419
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.059
plots are going on in Kurtzman Trek.

420
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.180
They usually marry them up and there is a unifying theme.

421
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:46.859
There's none of that here.

422
00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:48.720
They're not even thinking on that level here are they?

423
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.420
They're thinking...

424
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.839
I think they're thinking going back to the conflict at the end?

425
00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:58.559
Like, do we go back to Kira and Cisco resolving?

426
00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:02.400
Yeah, there's a nice scene at the end where the pair of them

427
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:02.880
basically.

428
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.079
Well, that was a thing, wasn't it?

429
00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.940
And she goes off and he plays with his clock.

430
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:09.779
Do you remember what the payoff to this season is?

431
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:11.880
Do you remember what the very last scene of this season is?

432
00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:15.420
And it's in the hands of the prophets, which I think is a really

433
00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:16.200
strong episode.

434
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:22.500
And in that episode, Kira throws her weight behind Vedic Wynn, who

435
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:26.579
is there to take down Keiko's school because it's a non- yeah

436
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:28.619
teaching non-religious.

437
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:33.539
Yeah, it's God, it's in fact, that's more appropriate now, isn't

438
00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:33.720
it?

439
00:19:33.779 --> 00:19:34.619
I should put that on now.

440
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:40.019
Um, and the last scene of the episode is, uh, because it's

441
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:40.920
somewhere in the middle of that episode.

442
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:42.420
Wait one sec.

443
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.500
Wait, look on screen.

444
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:46.680
So I give the Valerian there.

445
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:51.900
He's, I reckon he's like .89 of a Boma.

446
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:55.200
That is such a shitty low effort alien.

447
00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:56.940
It looks so stupid.

448
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:57.539
Oh, good.

449
00:19:57.539 --> 00:19:59.339
I love the fact we've got the Beaumont scale.

450
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.880
I didn't even see it.

451
00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:03.599
Where's he gone?

452
00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:05.160
Oh my god.

453
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:06.299
So miserable.

454
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:07.680
Like he had to have...

455
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:09.059
I can't remember.

456
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:09.839
I don't care.

457
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.059
He was really shockingly shit.

458
00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:13.500
You got 2 nostrils.

459
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:15.720
A lot of extra...

460
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:19.740
Oh, like of 8 or 9 nostrils and like really lank sort of crappy

461
00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:19.980
hair.

462
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:20.940
There he is.

463
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:22.799
Oh my god.

464
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.259
Oh my god, look how stupid that is.

465
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.480
That hair looks like a mop, doesn't it?

466
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:28.200
It's terrible.

467
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.259
I just paint someone fucking green or something.

468
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:32.579
I'll call them an Andori.

469
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.240
We don't need that.

470
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.900
9.one, 9.one of her Beaumont, all right?

471
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:37.680
9.one?

472
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.460
Yeah, I reckon he's, I reckon he's getting very close to the sort

473
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:44.220
of...

474
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.660
Because this is one of the good scenes.

475
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.920
Anything between Cork and Odo in this episode is great.

476
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:54.599
I actually really quite like this and there is something really

477
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:56.700
funny that I actually can't remember.

478
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:58.740
So I'm going to read the...

479
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.799
Oh, the fact that I was trying to be so casual and he's like, oh

480
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.180
so did you hear it?

481
00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:05.519
Did you hear anything being said about those Klingons?

482
00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:09.960
And then I was like, crafty Odo tonight, aren't we?

483
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:12.299
That's right.

484
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.720
And he doesn't want to get the reputation for being helpful.

485
00:21:16.740 --> 00:21:18.240
You know what?

486
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.759
He requires a relationship that always hits.

487
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:24.779
It's just 2 incredibly strong actors, isn't it?

488
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:26.519
Well, exactly right.

489
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:29.460
But and well drawn characters.

490
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.460
Look, this is the moment where he realises that crafty tonight

491
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:32.880
Odo.

492
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:35.940
That's so good. great.

493
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.460
What is he wearing, Quark?

494
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.019
I used to God, those cow is.

495
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:41.880
They're so good.

496
00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:45.720
I think he overplays it a little bit in the scene with Julian a

497
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.420
bit later with the comedy neck brace.

498
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.299
I kind of thought, oh, okay, right, you know, that's a little bit

499
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:52.019
too much.

500
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.359
I want satisfaction.

501
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:56.039
Yeah, yeah.

502
00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:56.460
At the end.

503
00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:58.079
When he's got caught, yeah.

504
00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:00.119
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

505
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:03.839
Oh, God.

506
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.299
And so, yeah, I don't know.

507
00:22:06.420 --> 00:22:07.920
I mean, this is okay.

508
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.640
We will see this a lot in the coming 6.5 years.

509
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:15.599
It's not like there are not lots of other scenes between Odo and

510
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.099
Quark doing this kind of thing.

511
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.180
You know, what's the best way?

512
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:19.019
in better episodes.

513
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:23.759
It's very, very best one is where one little ship and they've been

514
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.099
regrown at the end, right?

515
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:31.920
And the whole scene is between Quark and Bashir and O'Brien that

516
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.599
have been miniaturised and now regrown.

517
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.079
And Odo's kind of in the back of the scene and he's like, hmm.

518
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:41.160
Are you sure that they've put you back to the right size?

519
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.160
And Corp's like, actually, you do look a little bit on the petite

520
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.259
side and they're like, oh, shit, to the infirmary.

521
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:50.460
And there's a pair of them stand there and go, ha, ha, and just

522
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:51.180
laugh.

523
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:56.220
So then we talked over the hero special effect here just now.

524
00:22:56.339 --> 00:22:58.019
It doesn't look painful though.

525
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:00.119
I do think it looked quite painful the way his head flapped like

526
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:00.299
that.

527
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:01.500
Yeah, yeah.

528
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:05.519
Look, it looked kind of terrible, but it like it's an attempt and

529
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:07.079
it is something that we haven't seen before.

530
00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:08.640
So I'm here for it.

531
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:13.259
And it is basically from here on in, there's a scene with a little

532
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:16.500
bit of sort of wobbly purple mist a bit later on and then we're

533
00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:16.740
done.

534
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.000
That sounds...

535
00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:20.220
You know after with acidic alpha deal.

536
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:23.339
You know, when he turned into Alexander Sidic in series season

537
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:26.160
four, is that he suddenly realised he could play the role

538
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.619
naturalistically rather than theatrically.

539
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:30.779
So you watch him from where the Warrior goes, and he's basically

540
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:32.400
playing himself, but very charming.

541
00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:36.299
Until that point, he's doing this very awful upper class British

542
00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:38.279
sort of accent, you know.

543
00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:39.180
Yeah.

544
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:41.400
I mean, I like him.

545
00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:43.440
I mean, I like...

546
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.359
I know people thought he was irritating.

547
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:49.440
But he's not good here.

548
00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:53.579
And there's another one called, I think the passenger, did I dream

549
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:54.000
though?

550
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.460
Oh, that's the worst performance he ever gave.

551
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.720
Not remember.

552
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:01.859
I can even quote you the bit where he is revealed to be the evil

553
00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:07.200
killer, Vantica, and Cor goes into the airlock and he goes, not at

554
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.460
all, gentlemen.

555
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.259
I've been expecting you.

556
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.119
It's so terrible.

557
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:13.319
So bad.

558
00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:14.400
But this is bad.

559
00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:17.279
Like, this is the scene where I thought, oh, I see, this is just

560
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:17.880
bullshit.

561
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:18.480
I don't care.

562
00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:20.880
And you see, look at the script.

563
00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:24.900
They're still talking about the current situation between Odo and

564
00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:29.759
Odo, between Cisco and Kira, where it's, you know, arguing about

565
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.079
the Valerians.

566
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:35.759
And so if that had been this, if there was a more interesting kind

567
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:41.819
of conflict, that people were falling into sides over anyway, and

568
00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:44.519
then it kind of got heightened by the space problem.

569
00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:45.660
I don't know.

570
00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:50.099
Yeah, well, at least it, it would lead somewhere.

571
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:51.240
There'd be a development.

572
00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:53.160
It would still be about our characters too.

573
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:54.660
It would still be about our characters.

574
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:58.980
Progress was before this and they reached like a conclusion with

575
00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:01.859
their relationship at that and we should have been moving beyond

576
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:02.220
that now.

577
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:05.339
And after this, it doesn't really happen again.

578
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.220
I remember in the homecoming, which is the 1st episode of series

579
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:10.319
two, phenomenal episode.

580
00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:15.059
Um, where Cisco sits down and goes, I need a runabout and he's

581
00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:16.259
like, well, I need to know where you're going.

582
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.839
Oh, I'm off to free a prisoner of the water from a Kardassian war

583
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:19.259
camp.

584
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.420
And Cisco goes, oh, right.

585
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.500
You know, like, and they, they, they've reached that point where

586
00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.680
where, you know, they can properly communicate with each other and

587
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:29.940
he understands her.

588
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.839
And this is a bizarre anomaly at this point in the season, you

589
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:34.079
know?

590
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:34.980
Yeah.

591
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:39.059
And I think Kira overplays the anger in the same way she

592
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:40.500
overplayed it in emissary.

593
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.140
Like she learned to tone that down throughout the season and

594
00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:45.420
suddenly she's just all aggression again.

595
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:47.279
You know, there's no substitute to it.

596
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:52.980
And and then making Cisco play it like this.

597
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.819
So I don't know that he's doing the funny voice at this point, but

598
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:59.099
he's sort of hunched over the desk.

599
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.759
He's a very much smaller and less imposing physical presence than

600
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:03.779
he is normally.

601
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.920
He's got his clock plans in front of him on the sort of little pad

602
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:08.279
thing.

603
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:10.980
And like, what are we doing?

604
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.000
What are we doing?

605
00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:13.920
He's not recognisable.

606
00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:17.819
You know, in Sarah's 4, he comes alive and he's very energetic and

607
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:21.599
masculine and he's a really powerful presence in the show.

608
00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:26.640
If he then started playing it like this, then, you would notice.

609
00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:30.480
I can't see any great difference between the very quiet way he's

610
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:32.039
playing Cisco in the 1st season anyway.

611
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:37.500
I think that there is...

612
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:41.460
I think that there's a kind of repressed.

613
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.119
I think I think he's bottling something up.

614
00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:45.720
Do you know what I mean?

615
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:50.339
Like, I think that there is, he is physically imposing and he is

616
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:53.700
potentially threatening, but he's playing it down.

617
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.480
Well, I think he gets a great scene later when he really attacks

618
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:00.660
that Majoran man and throws him over ops.

619
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.099
You remember, he punches him in the face of that.

620
00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:03.299
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

621
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.079
But he is very he's suddenly very unpredictable there.

622
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:09.660
And that's a bit more interesting than just being a bit bored.

623
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:16.200
So can we talk about some calm and how he's doing with this?

624
00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:17.460
Well, look, we talk.

625
00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:19.140
We talk, it doesn't seem very fair.

626
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:21.660
Because the only 2 Brian episodes we've really watched have been

627
00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:23.099
ones where he's not playing O'Brien.

628
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:25.799
Oh, yeah, power play.

629
00:27:25.859 --> 00:27:28.980
And he was pretty, he was getting possessed more than that as well

630
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:29.640
if I'm honest.

631
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:33.240
Yeah, I do think he's very reliable normally.

632
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.099
Yeah, yeah.

633
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:35.940
Oh, I think so too.

634
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.940
And playing the normal character and he's kind of likeable and

635
00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:39.359
stuff like that.

636
00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:40.200
I think he's fine.

637
00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:43.559
Yeah, but sometimes when they give him like, I don't know if you

638
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.680
remember the hard time where he has to pull off the fact that he's

639
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:49.619
suicidal at the end of the episode and he's crying and holding the

640
00:27:49.619 --> 00:27:50.099
face.

641
00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:51.960
And no, I think it's really, really well played.

642
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:56.519
But he's never at his best when he's possessed.

643
00:27:56.579 --> 00:27:57.839
Sorry.

644
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:01.200
You don't need to say that about a Star Trek episode.

645
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:02.460
Yeah, there are many other shows.

646
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.099
Nathan, you're never at your best when you're possessed, all

647
00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:05.339
right?

648
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:06.240
No, no.

649
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:09.359
Watch out because there's a purple glow behind you right now.

650
00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:10.680
There really is.

651
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:13.319
And look at this scene, right?

652
00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:17.039
This is the most static and blowing fucking scene.

653
00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:19.019
Like, they're sitting in the runabout.

654
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:21.240
It's just ended, just in time for my rant.

655
00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:23.099
They're sitting in the fucking runabout.

656
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:27.480
They're looking for what, bits of the, um, Oh, Siri, I think has

657
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.839
started taking dictation of everything that I'm saying. amazing.

658
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.099
Yeah.

659
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.900
They're sitting in the fucking runabout.

660
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.539
They're finding bits of the ship or something.

661
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:38.039
I hate to break this to you, Nathan.

662
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:41.099
There are many shots like that across TNG and early DS9.

663
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:43.859
Oh, I know, but they just sit there.

664
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:46.319
The lights, like the stars don't move.

665
00:28:46.380 --> 00:28:49.019
They stop moving the ship, but you would never tell because

666
00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:50.279
literally nothing happens.

667
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:53.819
There's no exterior shot at the runabout doing anything at all.

668
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.420
Even though they must have heaps of shots in the cash.

669
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:01.740
TOS episodes where cameras were going in over shoulders, zooming

670
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:02.640
down from the top.

671
00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:05.940
Yeah, this is super boringly directed.

672
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:07.799
That was old as well.

673
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:09.299
You know, Cliff bowl.

674
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:10.079
Yeah, he's good.

675
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:10.799
He is good.

676
00:29:10.859 --> 00:29:12.299
He directs...

677
00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:13.980
A whole race of barbers named after him.

678
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:19.319
He directs the adversary in at the end of series three, where the

679
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.740
changing's on the ship, and that has got some real muscle to it

680
00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:23.400
the direction of that.

681
00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:26.099
So I think this was the 1st DS9 he did.

682
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.980
So this is him trying to prove himself at him.

683
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:30.480
Wow, that's depressing.

684
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:34.440
You know, there was this whole thing about Kira, like being sort

685
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.420
of aggressively sexy, yeah.

686
00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:41.039
Yeah, I don't buy it because in later seasons.

687
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:43.740
Do you remember when she sang Fever at the piano?

688
00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:46.619
And she was...

689
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:48.059
I mean, I was on the turn watching that.

690
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:49.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

691
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:52.619
I don't get what's going on at all when she was the intendant and

692
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:55.440
she had a van and one arm and a woman on the other and she was in

693
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:56.640
a milk bath, you know?

694
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:01.859
She's a very sexy woman and she can play sexy really well, but I

695
00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:03.420
don't really know what's going on here.

696
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:08.460
And it's sort of a bit off putting in retrospect as well when you

697
00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:11.940
kind of know that they kind of eventually decide to pair these 2

698
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:12.779
off.

699
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:16.559
Um, and I think they work really well and their relationship's

700
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:19.680
really interesting and this is just a sort of sort of shitty low

701
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:21.480
rent parity of that, I think.

702
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:24.240
Is this, oh, I don't think we're heading to the bit where she goes

703
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.059
to Quarks now and comes onto Dax.

704
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:31.500
Oh, there's a ship docked on the on the thing.

705
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:32.460
Can you explain to me?

706
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.259
I wasn't really sure about the plot of this.

707
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:40.200
So is the is the same revolution occurring with the same

708
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.039
personalities each time these purple spheres go in people's

709
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:44.279
heads?

710
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:45.839
I don't know.

711
00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:47.279
I think so.

712
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:48.059
I don't know.

713
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:49.740
But there's no indication of it.

714
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:54.359
Like, if it was a purple sphere thing that just caused you to, you

715
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:58.619
know, be a big asshole and kind of fight with your commanding

716
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:02.700
officer or something, or, you know, inspired some kind of people

717
00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:06.960
picking sides, even that, that's something.

718
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:11.880
Like, you know, you can imagine an episode about like political

719
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:16.380
division or something, you know, the way that we that we form

720
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:20.579
these groups and and and, I don't know, alliances or something

721
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:21.000
like that.

722
00:31:21.059 --> 00:31:24.599
Like there's something possibly, I don't know.

723
00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:28.500
I think unless it's about Kira and Cisco and how their

724
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:30.299
relationships developing, what's the point?

725
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:35.940
And given that she's behaving like a weird sex version of Kira, and

726
00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:37.859
he's like a fucking idiot.

727
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:39.180
Like, I don't even know what he is.

728
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.680
Do you remember?

729
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.380
Do you remember the objection as the DS9 when it 1st came out

730
00:31:43.380 --> 00:31:43.559
though?

731
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:44.700
It wasn't boldly going.

732
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:46.259
I want one of these drinks.

733
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:48.180
I want one of these.

734
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.160
That's a modella apparatif, you know.

735
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:53.579
The blue looks really nice.

736
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.380
Where did they get these space drink names from?

737
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.640
I know.

738
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.440
Do you know the best one?

739
00:31:58.500 --> 00:31:59.759
I'll say check out the Tronia.

740
00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:03.000
The best one is the warp core breach, where he puts in the drink

741
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.640
and it all, and it all foams out..

742
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.859
My grandfather died in a warp core breach.

743
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:11.579
Coming up.

744
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:15.059
And Bashir goes, no, no, it's not that bad of a night.

745
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.920
Don't worry. don't want that.

746
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:20.759
No, no, do you remember, do you remember the objections that DS9

747
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:21.839
wasn't on a spaceship?

748
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:24.480
It wasn't boldly going, strangely worlds, blah, blah, blah.

749
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.079
The last thing they should have been doing it because there were a

750
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:28.799
lot of cynics.

751
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:31.500
There were a lot of people that were doubtful about it is having

752
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.920
an episode where the commander looked bored about everything

753
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:35.579
that's going on.

754
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:39.299
And the rest of the crowd, like, Dax was there with her, like, you

755
00:32:39.299 --> 00:32:42.660
know, a hand on her cheek going, Like, if you just switched on to

756
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.660
DS9 and you were a bit cynical, you'd be like, wow, this is

757
00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:47.160
exactly what I did, you know?

758
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:48.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

759
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.140
I mean, we've talked before about the difference between a Star

760
00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:55.019
Trek show on a show setting the Star Trek universe, and this is

761
00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:58.980
the 1st one of the latter, and I think it proves that it's a great

762
00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.460
idea.

763
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:02.819
It's something super interesting, you know, where you see people

764
00:33:02.819 --> 00:33:05.880
boldly exploring things in spaceships all the time, but it's

765
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.940
actually fun to see what this world is like when you're not in the

766
00:33:08.940 --> 00:33:09.420
spaceship.

767
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:10.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:13.259
But what they needed to do was make this setting as exciting as

769
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:16.920
possible in this 1st year and they just didn't do that.

770
00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:20.039
So they don't quite know what to do.

771
00:33:20.099 --> 00:33:23.640
And so they've given them a kind of planetary system with a bunch

772
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:28.500
of moons so we can go to different places with just a run about.

773
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.799
Eventually they kind of go, fuck it, we'll need the defiant, you

774
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:33.000
know, like whatever.

775
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:39.240
And I think probably that works because it's not being used to

776
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:40.200
boldly go.

777
00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:44.160
It is being used as a warship or whatever because that's their

778
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.640
thing.

779
00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:50.519
And what happens is when they do their, their kind of reboot pilot

780
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:54.119
which is where the warrior, is then that's why they should have

781
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.880
done in the beginning, they do make it exciting and have a bloody

782
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.460
great battle scene at the end of this story, and I know you

783
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:02.400
require surprise at how static it was, because it was still made

784
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:04.140
you know, 15, 20 years ago.

785
00:34:04.380 --> 00:34:09.539
But at the time, that was big budget and impressive, you know, and

786
00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:11.880
that's kind of what I should have been doing here, I think.

787
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:12.900
Yeah.

788
00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:16.860
But this is, and I suggest to you off mic.

789
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:21.960
This is absolutely the tipping point where they kind of say, and

790
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:26.099
there are a few sub TNG episodes in series 2, but there's not that

791
00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:26.820
many, really.

792
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:28.199
They start to go down.

793
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:31.199
No, we've got interesting characters and we're in an interesting

794
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:33.239
place and let's explore that.

795
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:37.199
And what comes after this is duet in the hand of the prophets.

796
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.460
And then the 3 part, um, but during the Civil War story at the

797
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:42.179
beginning of series 2.

798
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.960
And that is where they figure out, this is what we should be doing

799
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:46.440
politics.

800
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:47.579
Yeah, that's what we can do.

801
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:50.880
Interesting relationships, you know, summit with a bit of

802
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:51.300
substance.

803
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.760
Not this not this old nonsense.

804
00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:55.980
Yeah, no, this is ridiculous.

805
00:34:56.039 --> 00:35:01.079
And that 3 part of which I haven't watched probably is terrific.

806
00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:02.340
You should go back and watch that.

807
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:03.179
It's really good.

808
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:04.019
Yeah, yeah.

809
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:08.280
Because it's sort of a bit perennial. isolationists and stuff like

810
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:08.460
that.

811
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:13.500
And, you know, this is a society that's kind of recovering from a

812
00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:18.119
long occupation and a brutal one and trying to find a way of

813
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.039
living now that they're kind of by themselves.

814
00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:22.559
Look, she threw him into a wall and I just don't give a shit.

815
00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:26.099
It has that fabulous, what's it, Minister Jaro, who's played by

816
00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:29.159
Langella giving.

817
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.920
And he's in scenes against Louise Fletcher.

818
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:36.179
And it's like, it's like sizzling drama.

819
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.179
It's terrific. and you're like, wow, wow. you know.

820
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:41.340
But just the fact that they did a three-parter.

821
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.880
You know, so they were showing consequence after consequence after

822
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:45.420
consequence.

823
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:47.519
We were like, okay, something's changing here.

824
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:51.059
Yeah, it's series 2, episode one, isn't it?

825
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.980
It really is an absolute course correction.

826
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.659
This is what the show is now.

827
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:56.460
Do you remember what else I do?

828
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:57.420
Do you remember what else I do?

829
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:58.260
You'd be so happy.

830
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.539
They go outside.

831
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:05.159
They do this huge action sequence in a sun bleached quarry.

832
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.139
Oh my god.

833
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:08.280
That's amazing.

834
00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:11.400
Look, amazing that they get outside.

835
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:15.659
This is really a bit shit.

836
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.119
And we did have quite a fun episode, but like Quarks overplaying

837
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.619
it in a way that's actually kind of unpleasant to watch and like

838
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:30.900
the Comedy Deck Brace is, you know, just so low effort, like just

839
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:32.760
so fucking low effort.

840
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:34.679
No one's really trying at all.

841
00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:37.980
I feel sorry for Renee, because he's trying to give this so much

842
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:38.880
Welly, isn't he?

843
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:39.780
trying to get you.

844
00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:43.079
There's a deep mystery here to solve, you know, and I'm the only

845
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.119
man for the job, but it's like, oh, really?

846
00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:46.980
Well and that's the other thing.

847
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.179
Like, what if you have this situation where the only 2 people

848
00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:57.539
immune from it are Odo and Quark, and they have to team up

849
00:36:57.539 --> 00:37:01.139
together to solve the problem, there's probably a bit of an

850
00:37:01.139 --> 00:37:05.519
element of that in what we see, but how much more fun could that

851
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:06.000
have been?

852
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:07.619
You know, those two.

853
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.099
No, they did that better in Babel, though, earlier in the season.

854
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:12.119
Oh, okay.

855
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.820
Where everyone else has succumbed to the virus.

856
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:16.739
Oh, they don't.

857
00:37:16.739 --> 00:37:20.940
Odo goes, I need you, Corp, to come and to Ops and take control of

858
00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:22.860
the station whilst I go and sort this out.

859
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:25.679
And he's standing there with his hands on his lapels, you know

860
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:26.699
like, I'm in charge now.

861
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:27.539
Yeah, it's great.

862
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:31.320
Or even better.

863
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:35.579
Do you remember civil defence when the Cardassian defensing takes

864
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:38.460
over the stage. and the pair of them are stuck in security office

865
00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:38.880
together.

866
00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:41.940
It's like, you mean, you mean, I'm stuck here with you?

867
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.139
No, it's worse than that.

868
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:44.400
I'm stuck here with you.

869
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.500
Bless them.

870
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:48.780
Oh, what's all this about these Klingons?

871
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:49.980
logs.

872
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:50.820
Yeah, yeah.

873
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.739
Like, I don't know.

874
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.840
And it's such a boring mystery as well.

875
00:37:54.900 --> 00:38:01.019
Like, I just couldn't possibly share less. we've seen this before

876
00:38:01.019 --> 00:38:01.380
haven't we?

877
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:04.320
Like the USS Britain or something in whatever the hell that

878
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:09.360
episode was and the naked now episodes where it's always, you know

879
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.119
the previous ship that this happened to and they got destroyed or

880
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:12.599
whatever.

881
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:15.719
Like this is a thing that they've done over and over again.

882
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:21.960
I think when DF9 goes over a cliff in the future doing TNG style

883
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:22.440
episodes.

884
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:25.980
Do you remember Meridian when the Brigadoon planet appears?

885
00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:27.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

886
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.639
But it's got some, like, really nice direction from Jonathan

887
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:30.360
Frase.

888
00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:33.179
They go outside into a lovely park and this is some visual

889
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:37.139
interest or fascination where Loaxana Troy brings the love virus

890
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:37.380
on.

891
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.079
And, you know, but...

892
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:41.280
It is terrible.

893
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:44.400
But some of the couplings they do, like you've got Kira and Bashir

894
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:48.360
snogging their arses off in one of the parties and things.

895
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:51.360
And it's quite, you know, there's just nothing to this, though, is

896
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:51.599
there?

897
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:52.260
No.

898
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:56.280
Well, and because it's not the characters that we care about as

899
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:56.639
well.

900
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:59.880
Like Chief O'Brien's unrecognisable and I just couldn't possibly

901
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:00.599
care.

902
00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:02.340
What is going on with Chief O'Brien?

903
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:02.820
don't know.

904
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:05.699
So is he trying to take control of the station?

905
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.519
Like, because he's in Cisco's chair right now throwing his weight

906
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:08.820
around.

907
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:15.119
Yeah, maybe Cisco is kind of like his figurehead, but he's the one

908
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:16.139
who's really in charge.

909
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:19.739
And I think some of the dialogue later makes it sound like it's

910
00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:24.480
Miles versus Kira. rather than, you know, Cisco versus Kira.

911
00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:26.880
There's never been any hint that...

912
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.519
Well, here's Ryan's orders.

913
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:31.440
No, have any tension?

914
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:33.659
So that just doesn't make any sense, you know?

915
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:34.860
No, no sense.

916
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:35.519
Who cares?

917
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:36.480
Absolutely.

918
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:37.800
And so you've got Cisco.

919
00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:41.280
The person with whom the conflict was at the very beginning.

920
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.900
And when they, before it got really stupid, they were still at

921
00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:50.099
least kind of acting as if it was still the Valerian nostril faced

922
00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:53.280
people that they were interested in here.

923
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:54.480
Like, what's he doing?

924
00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:55.800
What's he doing?

925
00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:58.380
He's drawing up his plans for his amazing clock.

926
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:02.639
Yeah, he's being slightly camp, you know, like just a little bit

927
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:06.960
kind of a little bit sort of camping a little bit kind of weak.

928
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.760
And I just sort of think, what's that?

929
00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:09.539
even is that?

930
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.360
I think you're right that there's supposed to be like this level

931
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.539
of restrained anger, because later on, he's really calm in a scene

932
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:17.579
and he's talking kind of in a monotone.

933
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.119
And then all of a sudden he goes like, never get me a phaser.

934
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:22.500
Oh, get rid of Kira.

935
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.059
You know, he's suddenly like, but...

936
00:40:24.059 --> 00:40:26.099
Yeah, is he Richard II or something?

937
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:29.699
Like it's some, he's sort of mercurial. he's a little bit of feat

938
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:34.199
you know, he's up in a towel making fucking clocks or whatever.

939
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:35.820
I never understand.

940
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:37.739
When these things happen, why they've just called in the

941
00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:40.679
Federation. everyone's behaving really mad here, all right?

942
00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:42.719
Can you just take them all away and see what's going on?

943
00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:44.280
Can you come in and just gun them down?

944
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:48.840
come in and take them to that planet from that lower decks

945
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:49.199
episode.

946
00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:52.920
Let's get a drawback from PowerPlay in her phaser. take them all

947
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:54.000
out. right.

948
00:40:57.059 --> 00:40:58.559
What is it supposed to be about?

949
00:40:58.619 --> 00:40:59.219
What is it?

950
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:00.539
And it's just so weird.

951
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:01.800
And like he backs away.

952
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:02.940
Like, what's happening?

953
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:05.519
I just don't, like, what are we doing?

954
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:08.699
This is literally quintessential Joe Manosky.

955
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:09.900
What the fuck is this about?

956
00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:11.880
It's nothing.

957
00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:15.179
And I know you love it, but all the way through maths.

958
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:17.699
I'm literally going, what is it?

959
00:41:17.699 --> 00:41:18.840
What's going on?

960
00:41:18.900 --> 00:41:19.500
Yeah, yeah.

961
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:23.280
Oh my god, look at Kira with her feet up on the desk.

962
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:24.719
God.

963
00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:27.000
Everyone's sitting in this chair.

964
00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:31.440
Wouldn't it make more sense if she'd have like changed her look a

965
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.139
little bit and made herself a bit more feminine?

966
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:35.460
This is how she's playing it.

967
00:41:36.059 --> 00:41:37.739
It's so weird.

968
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:39.719
She's got her tits with her in this scene.

969
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:40.260
Look at that.

970
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:41.039
Whoa.

971
00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:43.320
Um, yeah, ugh.

972
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.199
I just got nothing.

973
00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:50.519
I just wish it was Kira doing this, you know, like this is so

974
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.460
boring because it's no one that I care about.

975
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.559
Everyone is behaving oddly.

976
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:56.699
Are they in peril?

977
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:58.500
I guess they're in peril.

978
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:00.840
They're in peril, because they're kidding one another. potential.

979
00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:01.679
Yeah, I guess so.

980
00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:04.800
I think we both know that the show's not going to end.

981
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:10.619
Well, no, I know. that about actual good peril that's in the

982
00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:10.800
show.

983
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:11.579
Do you know what I mean?

984
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:16.199
you could come into the visitor and go, well, yeah, you know

985
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:19.739
you're watching the visitor and you'll say, and Dax, and, you know

986
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:20.760
they knock out characters.

987
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:23.039
When it's real, DS one.

988
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:26.099
You know it's not going to be serious. series one, for God's sake

989
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:27.059
they're not going to recount.

990
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.059
They're not going to kill a beloved major character in series one

991
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:30.780
of a Star Trek show.

992
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:31.440
Surely.

993
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:34.079
Certainly not with a massive dramatic red blob on their cheek.

994
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:39.480
TNG is a trent setter, I'm telling you.

995
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:41.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she was out.

996
00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:45.719
She was right because... was kind to you later.

997
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:46.679
Go on.

998
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:51.480
Well, all I'm saying is that Denise Crosby had a point because

999
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.840
look at what they're doing 5 years later or whatever.

1000
00:42:54.900 --> 00:42:57.059
It's still just absolute bollock.

1001
00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:58.320
This is...

1002
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:03.780
I would say this is the exception rather than the norm, no.

1003
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:04.860
No, I know.

1004
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:05.460
I know.

1005
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:11.460
Like, even the, you know, things like Move Along Home is trying to

1006
00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:12.239
be weird.

1007
00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:18.539
Let's let's mount a defence of move along home in that it's a

1008
00:43:18.539 --> 00:43:20.400
better episode than dramatis personae.

1009
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:21.179
What do you reckon?

1010
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.179
Well, you could mount a defence for any episode in the fact that

1011
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:26.280
it's a very...

1012
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:27.480
Dramatist persona.

1013
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:28.440
Are we doing threshold?

1014
00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:32.099
No, Fresho's got that amazing ending where Tom Paris, Lizard, and

1015
00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:34.500
Janeway, Lizard, fucking have Lizard Baby.

1016
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:35.099
Have sex.

1017
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is pretty great.

1018
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.239
People think that's implausible, you know.

1019
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.880
What about, is it demons?

1020
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:45.059
What's the one where all their faces are melting off and they're

1021
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.739
not really characters after all?

1022
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:48.300
Of course, oblivion.

1023
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:50.039
God almighty, that's a bad episode.

1024
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:51.239
Move on live.

1025
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:52.320
It's worth it.

1026
00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:55.800
Just for the look on April Bruce's face when he has to see

1027
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:57.059
Alamoraine.

1028
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:00.179
So good.

1029
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:02.460
And it's memorable.

1030
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.239
People remember it.

1031
00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:06.000
No one ever thinks fondly back on this one.

1032
00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:06.780
This is so bad.

1033
00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:09.000
Oh, look, we're watching more fucking Klingons.

1034
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:12.360
Even you complained about discovery, for God's sake.

1035
00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:16.139
Dreadful episode in series 6, and most of series 6 is pretty damn

1036
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:19.679
good, but that driftful episode where Barile comes back from the

1037
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:21.179
Mirror Universe.

1038
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:22.079
Oh, yeah.

1039
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:26.400
Even that's got the scenes where sexy intendant Kira comes over

1040
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.179
puts on Kira's uniform, it's like, ooh, give me a massage and

1041
00:44:30.179 --> 00:44:32.039
she's beating the shit out of people, you know?

1042
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.500
I think they realise later on, even when they're onto a dud, we

1043
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.400
can do something with this.

1044
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:39.539
Let's do something with it.

1045
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:40.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1046
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.380
So look, this is a weird space clock.

1047
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.760
It's quite pretty.

1048
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:45.239
I like it.

1049
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:46.739
And you know, it stays in his office.

1050
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:49.800
That is the thing that I like.

1051
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:54.539
So he has no idea how it got there.

1052
00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:00.719
He has no memory of building it, but he kind of comes to himself

1053
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.980
and sees that there's a clock that he's built, while he's been

1054
00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:09.119
away or unconscious or possessed, and he just keeps it, and it

1055
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:10.139
becomes part of the thing.

1056
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.119
And I think it's telling that that's the only thing that he gains

1057
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:15.900
from this episode.

1058
00:45:16.019 --> 00:45:18.780
He doesn't learn a valuable lesson about anything.

1059
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:20.639
His character doesn't change in any way.

1060
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:24.420
He doesn't learn anything about the core relationship he has at

1061
00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:28.860
the moment, which is his relationship with Kira as his 2IC on the

1062
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:30.599
station, learns nothing at all.

1063
00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:35.159
But it's kind of like I put myself through this Deep Space 9

1064
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.139
episode and all I got was this lousy clock.

1065
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:38.219
You know?

1066
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:39.000
It's not loud.

1067
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:40.980
I think it's quite pretty. loudly. nice.

1068
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:42.000
I think it is quite good.

1069
00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:43.739
It's Galifraean, I think.

1070
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.500
Yeah, one by the way, it kind of goes off in different directions

1071
00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:49.619
and has interesting symbols on it and things.

1072
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:51.840
Look, they didn't keep anything from masks.

1073
00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:52.380
All right.

1074
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.300
They didn't even keep that wretched mask that he wears.

1075
00:45:54.539 --> 00:45:58.800
No, I reckon it probably got destroyed the 1st time it went

1076
00:45:58.800 --> 00:45:59.880
through the dishwasher, actually.

1077
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:02.280
That time, Deanna Troy drove the ship.

1078
00:46:02.340 --> 00:46:03.059
It got smashed then.

1079
00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:05.880
Yeah, along with that.

1080
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:06.659
Okay.

1081
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:09.840
So now what's what's Julian doing?

1082
00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:12.059
Well, because Julian's...

1083
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:13.860
He's playing the fence with poisoning them.

1084
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.920
He's playing the fence out. okay, he goes, right, so I could be on

1085
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.199
Kira's side. could be on I don't know which way it's gonna go.

1086
00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:23.820
So, but he's handing out, yeah, poison that's going to knock

1087
00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:24.659
somebody out.

1088
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:26.460
Oh I don't know.

1089
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:28.619
I've lost the will to live at this.

1090
00:46:30.780 --> 00:46:33.719
At least with Strange New World.

1091
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:35.099
Yeah, that we watched.

1092
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.019
Not World's World.

1093
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.420
The Enterprise episode.

1094
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:40.800
Like, we hated it so much.

1095
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:43.260
Yeah, yeah.

1096
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.079
No, I was getting properly angry about how dreadful it was.

1097
00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:50.039
Whereas this is just boring, you know, like at least, at least

1098
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:54.300
Strange New World had the good manners to be actually offensive, I

1099
00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:54.659
think.

1100
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.860
But do you know how rare is to come across?

1101
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.400
I told you, Pillar said when he came into TNG character first.

1102
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:05.219
I don't care about the plot as much as the character.

1103
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:08.219
I want a character reason behind every scene, behind every

1104
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:08.699
episode.

1105
00:47:08.820 --> 00:47:12.360
I mean, and that just doesn't happen here.

1106
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:15.119
And that's so rare for DS9.

1107
00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:16.380
Yeah.

1108
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:18.599
Yeah, I mean, even for television.

1109
00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:20.699
Even if it's like really laboured.

1110
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.260
Sometimes it can be terribly.

1111
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:22.500
Yeah.

1112
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:24.360
The scene at the end where you're like, well, what did we learn

1113
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:25.500
about ourselves, you know?

1114
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:26.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1115
00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:28.559
But it's a basic thing that you have to do.

1116
00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:32.099
You know, like, and just because this is Star Trek, just because

1117
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.280
you know, someone's going to write a memory alpha article about

1118
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:35.579
it.

1119
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:39.539
It doesn't absolve it of the responsibility to be about something

1120
00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:44.579
and, you know, maybe to do something with our characters because I

1121
00:47:44.579 --> 00:47:49.139
think, you know, we said with TNG, the characters are essentially

1122
00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:52.440
their jobs, sort of a combination of their jobs and the actors

1123
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:53.460
performances, right?

1124
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:58.559
It's not really about, you know, Deanna likes chocolate or, I

1125
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:03.420
don't know, you know, Riker has some readily identifiable personal

1126
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:06.300
characteristic of some kind, but I just can't think of it right

1127
00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:06.539
now.

1128
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:12.539
Like, that's, that, that's the job is you watch them solve space

1129
00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:16.860
problems in an ingenious way, you see some weird things, you know

1130
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:19.800
there's the odd joke or the odd camp moment, and you enjoy

1131
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.119
yourself, and that's fine.

1132
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:24.960
But with something like Deep Space 9, that really does centre on

1133
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:26.940
the characters, that's not enough.

1134
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.219
This is not a space problem show.

1135
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.500
This is a space problem, isn't it?

1136
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:34.860
This is a space problem because it's not about, it doesn't emerge

1137
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:37.800
out of the characters or anything like that, and it just feels

1138
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:38.519
wrong.

1139
00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:42.000
Like even something even like the storyteller.

1140
00:48:42.059 --> 00:48:44.880
Yeah, like it's a bad storyteller.

1141
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:48.480
So O'Brien and Bashir and how their relationship's growing.

1142
00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:54.059
Yeah, it's got a really stupid space problem and it's got a great

1143
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:55.739
space.

1144
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:58.739
You said a few camp moments, that bit where he's up there with the

1145
00:48:58.739 --> 00:49:00.480
Dow Rock cloud coming towards him.

1146
00:49:00.539 --> 00:49:03.900
He's wearing that red robe and he's...

1147
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:07.079
Once upon a time, there was a dark rock and the people were

1148
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:07.679
stronger.

1149
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.019
I mean, it's the campus thing you've ever seen in your life.

1150
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:11.579
Oh, here we go.

1151
00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:12.239
I like this there.

1152
00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:13.260
I do like this bit.

1153
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:14.519
Yeah, he throws the guy.

1154
00:49:14.579 --> 00:49:16.500
Oh, he just slap Dax.

1155
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:17.940
That really hurt.

1156
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.059
Don't do that Oh, now they're trying to poison one another.

1157
00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:23.159
When Avery Brooks bears his teeth.

1158
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.079
I think it's always pretty scary.

1159
00:49:25.139 --> 00:49:28.559
That's not his Cisco performance at all.

1160
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:30.420
That's not his Cisco performance.

1161
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:33.719
You know, like even when he's being really violent, he's like

1162
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:35.820
super contained as Cisco.

1163
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:37.500
There is a line a 2nd though.

1164
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:40.800
Nathan, where she comes in with a phaser riot and it's like proper

1165
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:41.820
cliffhower acting.

1166
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.760
She points the phaser, right, the camera goes, drop it now.

1167
00:49:44.820 --> 00:49:46.380
Well, it's great.

1168
00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:50.880
Do you think they're enjoying having the chance to play other

1169
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:51.539
characters?

1170
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.400
Oh, maybe.

1171
00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:54.960
I wish I was enjoying it though.

1172
00:49:55.019 --> 00:49:57.059
I mean like it's...

1173
00:49:58.139 --> 00:50:03.480
It's so boring I'm trying to think of another DS9 episode with

1174
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:07.320
like a space problem like this, which doesn't really have anything

1175
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:07.980
to it.

1176
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:08.880
And I can't think of one.

1177
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:11.760
I've been kind of going through the seasons, trying to think where

1178
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:16.320
like there's that one in series 4, which is a bit basic, um, called

1179
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:19.739
Starship Down, where they're being consumed by the Gemini.

1180
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.139
But there's like 4 different plots going on.

1181
00:50:22.139 --> 00:50:26.880
And you've got a resolution to like the Bashir Dak's thing.

1182
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:31.739
You've got a scene between Quark and the guy is trying to con

1183
00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:36.000
trying to, um, yeah, use a missy.

1184
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:39.539
And there's a wharf learning how, you know, to work with

1185
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:41.699
interpersonal relationships in the workplace.

1186
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:43.679
And there's just stuff happening, you know?

1187
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:49.320
I mean, that is that's disaster, isn't it?

1188
00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:50.219
Like it's disaster.

1189
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.099
Like there's something happens to the ship and 4 people kind of

1190
00:50:53.099 --> 00:50:53.579
happen.

1191
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:56.579
But because Star Trek's a space problems show.

1192
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:59.639
It's the things that can do with its characters are fairly

1193
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:00.000
limited.

1194
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:03.360
So you get Deanna learning that she can command, you get Picard.

1195
00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:08.579
He has something about children in his one paragraph bio, and so

1196
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:09.840
they get him to do that.

1197
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:12.900
I mean, they take Data's head off.

1198
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:15.360
We don't really, that's not character thing that's just been

1199
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:16.019
funny.

1200
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:17.940
There's probably funner moments in disaster.

1201
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.039
I think Starship Mine's actually a better episode.

1202
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:22.500
Starship Down is a better episode just because the characters are

1203
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:23.219
better drawn.

1204
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:26.760
And it reaches, reaches like resolution...

1205
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:27.059
Yeah.

1206
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:27.300
Yeah.

1207
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:29.699
It's got that wonderful bit between, do you remember, between Kira

1208
00:51:29.699 --> 00:51:34.139
and Cisco where he's dying and she's like, you're the emissary.

1209
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:35.099
You cannot die.

1210
00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:39.900
And then she she admits, you know, you're my boss and I've never

1211
00:51:39.900 --> 00:51:41.639
quite known how to work with you.

1212
00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:44.400
And at the end he invites her to the baseball game and she puts

1213
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:48.360
the cap on and just grins and it's lovely. you know, it's really

1214
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:48.719
nice.

1215
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:50.280
There's none of that here, isn't it?

1216
00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:52.199
No, no.

1217
00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:54.480
Well, because our characters are basically absent.

1218
00:51:54.539 --> 00:51:55.260
They all playing other people.

1219
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:57.599
It's so boring He's ducks doing.

1220
00:51:57.659 --> 00:52:00.539
She's just like, oh, well, it looks like they've got some 4 feel

1221
00:52:00.539 --> 00:52:01.139
so well.

1222
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:04.079
My...

1223
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:09.420
So it just so let's let's get back to the premise here for a

1224
00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:09.840
second.

1225
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:18.780
So apparently there's an orb thing that does what that stores the

1226
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:26.639
personalities of the people, some people. inputs them into other

1227
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:30.239
people who then just kill the hell out of one another.

1228
00:52:30.300 --> 00:52:33.119
You know what episode does this rinse and repeat.

1229
00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:36.480
Exact premise but a 1000000 times better.

1230
00:52:36.539 --> 00:52:40.860
Do you remember Voyager's Memorial, where they come across that

1231
00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:45.059
memorial and then they play out the conflict on Voyager and

1232
00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:48.420
they're all getting memories of the conflict and it's it's quite

1233
00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:51.119
dark and it's it's quite thoughtful as well.

1234
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:56.579
And it's doing this, but it kind of has a point to it.

1235
00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.460
Or far more of this stuff anyway.

1236
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:01.800
No, no, I think I think it does.

1237
00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:05.219
There is something about like remembering historic conflicts or

1238
00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:06.840
historic cruelties or something.

1239
00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:07.920
There is something in that episode.

1240
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:11.400
No, it's the fact that a load of civilians were killed during

1241
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:12.059
wartime.

1242
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:15.300
But some of the Voyager characters are having to play that out.

1243
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.679
Yeah.

1244
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:17.760
And it's quite powerful.

1245
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:22.679
So, but it's like a, it's like a space memorial, like the one in

1246
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.320
the inner light, where it's a thing that's constructed so that

1247
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:29.340
people can experience this part of history and kind of learn from

1248
00:53:29.340 --> 00:53:33.119
it or less not even make the comparison between this and the inner

1249
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:33.719
light, right?

1250
00:53:33.780 --> 00:53:36.239
Well, you see, it's very similar.

1251
00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:38.159
There's a thing.

1252
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:40.380
And then everyone acts weird.

1253
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:44.340
This is the shittest scene in the entirety of DS9 where it's like

1254
00:53:44.340 --> 00:53:48.000
you know what disturbs me, how I gave my friendship to you

1255
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:48.480
people.

1256
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:50.099
And I'm like, what are you talking about?

1257
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:51.539
Yeah, yeah.

1258
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:52.139
No.

1259
00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:54.659
But he has a scene.

1260
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:58.380
He has a scene in the hands of the prophets. where this plays out

1261
00:53:58.380 --> 00:54:03.059
again, where, um, Kai Wynn says basically you've, you've come here

1262
00:54:03.059 --> 00:54:04.860
just to destroy us, you're the devil.

1263
00:54:04.860 --> 00:54:10.079
And Cisco says, I've worked with these people, they know what I'm

1264
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:13.800
here to do, and then he kind of reaches out to Kira and Kira

1265
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:14.639
endorses him.

1266
00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:18.960
And it's this scene, but just done a 1000000 times.

1267
00:54:19.019 --> 00:54:23.280
By our actual characters rather than sort of shitty bargain

1268
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:24.840
basement Richard II.

1269
00:54:24.900 --> 00:54:27.900
I don't even think you can you can call this a space problem.

1270
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:31.980
When the solution is, you're going to open an airlock and suck the

1271
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:33.179
orbs out into space.

1272
00:54:33.300 --> 00:54:36.420
Well, you can only do that if you're in space.

1273
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:38.699
It's actually literally a space solution.

1274
00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:40.199
Can you explain something to me?

1275
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:46.380
They do this quite a lot where they open rooms out of space and

1276
00:54:46.380 --> 00:54:50.159
they just sort of hold on to things and a bit of wind ruffles

1277
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:50.579
their hair.

1278
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.099
And I don't think that's what would actually happen.

1279
00:54:53.699 --> 00:54:57.360
No, we're remembering disaster when that happens and they're

1280
00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:00.000
hanging on to the things and their kind of legs are up in the

1281
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:00.179
air.

1282
00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:01.440
Hold on, everyone.

1283
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:05.219
That's so bad.

1284
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:09.179
And like again, show us the outside of the fucking thing.

1285
00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:12.420
Don't just open the door in the studio.

1286
00:55:12.539 --> 00:55:14.579
Get us a shot.

1287
00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:16.019
Oh, look, there's a pile.

1288
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:19.800
Then all sucked out, but the orps literally are out in a second.

1289
00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:24.599
It doesn't have any arms, so it can't cling to any of the plastic

1290
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:25.679
boxes.

1291
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:27.420
It's all very clear.

1292
00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:29.940
All right, so the problem solved.

1293
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:30.599
Oh my god.

1294
00:55:30.659 --> 00:55:31.619
Right.

1295
00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:32.099
Do you know what?

1296
00:55:32.099 --> 00:55:33.780
I was getting very tense. minutes of this left.

1297
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.780
I was getting very tense for a niche that I weren't going to get

1298
00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:37.260
out of this.

1299
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:38.880
Yeah, yeah.

1300
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:42.179
Let's see if we can see any conceivable difference in their

1301
00:55:42.179 --> 00:55:42.840
performances now.

1302
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:48.900
Well, there's, they've all had, the hair is a problem.

1303
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:51.539
The ladies have bad hair now as a result.

1304
00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:53.760
Well, because of that wind, we have learned something.

1305
00:55:53.820 --> 00:55:54.539
Yeah.

1306
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:55.199
Yeah.

1307
00:55:56.099 --> 00:55:59.820
See, look, now you see that kind of long shot of ops.

1308
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:01.860
That's an interesting set.

1309
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:04.619
You could shoot that in interesting ways. different levels, you

1310
00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:04.800
know?

1311
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:06.599
No, I agree.

1312
00:56:06.659 --> 00:56:12.000
And it was, you know, the, every space was so well-defined and so

1313
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:16.019
you know, there's interesting angles and backgrounds and textures

1314
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:19.619
and colours and practical lighting all over the place in this

1315
00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:19.980
set.

1316
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:26.280
I think this set is beautiful, but I do think that it needs some

1317
00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:27.239
reflective surfaces.

1318
00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:29.340
Well, you were wasting that, didn't you?

1319
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:32.460
Do you remember that time when they brought Kirioshi into Ops?

1320
00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:35.340
He was down in the pit and the whole scene was shot from his point

1321
00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:37.320
of view, looking up at everyone looking down at him?

1322
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:38.760
They can do it.

1323
00:56:38.820 --> 00:56:39.239
Yeah.

1324
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:40.260
Yeah.

1325
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:44.400
You know, like, didn't the pilot cost $12000000 to make, including

1326
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.880
all these sets and the sets are just, you know, like it was a

1327
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:50.340
massively expensive TV show for the time.

1328
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:55.679
And I think the sets are great. you know, like a genre sets are

1329
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:55.800
good.

1330
00:56:55.860 --> 00:56:57.059
Terrific.

1331
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:00.420
Yeah, they do lots of interesting things like over the 7 seasons.

1332
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:01.199
Yeah.

1333
00:57:01.260 --> 00:57:03.900
You can make interesting shots happen here.

1334
00:57:04.260 --> 00:57:06.840
Did you see what she just said?

1335
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:07.679
Did you see that?

1336
00:57:07.739 --> 00:57:10.320
She went, well, I know none of us are responsible for it, but I

1337
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:10.980
love you really.

1338
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:11.880
Ta-ra.

1339
00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:14.820
Yeah, Jesus Christ, I'm like nothing, like nothing.

1340
00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:16.380
But hang on.

1341
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:20.340
At the beginning of the episode, she had a real bugbear, you know

1342
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:21.840
like, so where's that going?

1343
00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:23.940
No, it's gone.

1344
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:27.599
Oh, look, duet started on Netflix. why didn't we watch that?

1345
00:57:27.659 --> 00:57:29.940
The randomiser is a cruel beast, you know.

1346
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:32.579
Well, you beat dirt.

1347
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:35.159
You were the one who wanted a terrible episode and can I

1348
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:38.820
congratulate you on extraordinary success in finding one?

1349
00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:42.239
really, really not very good at all.

1350
00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:45.780
I think that was our greatest challenge yet to try and find

1351
00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:46.380
anything.

1352
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:50.940
Anything at all, substance to say about dramatic.

1353
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:53.159
No, no, really bad.

1354
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:58.739
Um, I will just say one thing, and that is, okay, we'll watch much

1355
00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:01.500
more DS9, but it won't be as bad as this.

1356
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:04.679
No, no, almost by definition.

1357
00:58:08.940 --> 00:58:14.639
All right, it's time for us to choose our episode for next time

1358
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:19.619
and it's my turn to roll after the signal success of our strategy

1359
00:58:19.619 --> 00:58:28.260
last week, and I have decided to choose 2 series of Star Trek to

1360
00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:30.599
choose from among 2 series of Star Trek.

1361
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:32.760
And those are the...

1362
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:33.599
Can I take a guess?

1363
00:58:33.659 --> 00:58:37.260
Because I've got a feeling that, well, you might do 190s and one

1364
00:58:37.260 --> 00:58:39.719
Kurtzman just to, you know, shake it up.

1365
00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:40.500
Oh, okay.

1366
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:42.420
No, no.

1367
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:49.559
So I'm choosing the 2 series that I know least well and that it's

1368
00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:53.760
most likely that I will get an episode that I've watched once or

1369
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:55.199
possibly even not at all.

1370
00:58:55.260 --> 00:58:58.380
So this is going to be terra incognita for me.

1371
00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:00.539
It's Star Trek the original series.

1372
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:03.539
I can't guarantee that I've seen all of the episodes of that.

1373
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:06.780
And there are certainly episodes that I've only seen once or have

1374
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:09.179
had on in the room when I've been there.

1375
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:11.579
And it's Star Trek Enterprise.

1376
00:59:11.579 --> 00:59:12.900
And surprise.

1377
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:20.099
As we speak just a couple of days ago, we had an election here in

1378
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:24.599
Australia, and rather than watch the election night coverage, I

1379
00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:28.440
was hate watching series 3 of Enterprise.

1380
00:59:30.059 --> 00:59:33.659
Ah, dear, I want to be shell shot. very strong.

1381
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:36.119
I think there's some good stuff in there.

1382
00:59:36.179 --> 00:59:39.420
I really, really hate the entire premise anyway.

1383
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:40.679
So let's see if we go there.

1384
00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:46.559
So I have the Randomiser, which can be found at untitled Star Trek

1385
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:50.880
project.com slash Randomiser, as I say every week, and I'm about

1386
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:51.599
to press the button.

1387
00:59:51.659 --> 00:59:55.139
I'll ask you, before you do, like, do you, we're 6 months into

1388
00:59:55.139 --> 00:59:55.559
this now.

1389
00:59:55.559 --> 00:59:59.639
And I still get that fabulous sense of suspense every time I press

1390
00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:00.119
that button.

1391
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:02.280
I'm a bit excited.

1392
01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:03.599
I am a bit excited.

1393
01:00:03.659 --> 01:00:04.380
Okay.

1394
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:06.599
And I do press it at home sometimes.

1395
01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:09.000
Like, maybe some of the listeners do as well.

1396
01:00:09.059 --> 01:00:12.599
Like if I'm at a loss for some Star Trek to watch, I often let the

1397
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:13.860
randomiser choose for me.

1398
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:17.760
Yeah, but it's a cruel beast, I'm telling you, it always chooses

1399
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:18.300
crap for me.

1400
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:19.079
I'm telling you.

1401
01:00:19.139 --> 01:00:19.800
I know.

1402
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.260
I program that email.

1403
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:24.119
All right, here goes.

1404
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:32.699
Okay, your random Star Trek enterprise episode is series one

1405
01:00:32.699 --> 01:00:36.539
episode 12, Silent Enemy.

1406
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:40.679
Every time we get Enterprise, The 1st one that comes up is always

1407
01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:41.400
series one.

1408
01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:43.500
Roll it again.

1409
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:44.940
Okay, all right.

1410
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:50.820
Oh, this is a good one, actually, that I kind of know.

1411
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:54.360
But it's been a long time since I've seen it.

1412
01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:55.980
Let's see what you think.

1413
01:00:56.039 --> 01:01:03.420
It's season 2 of Star Trek, the original series, episode three, the

1414
01:01:03.420 --> 01:01:04.139
Changeling.

1415
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:10.260
I've never seen it It's one of the episodes that I think is part

1416
01:01:10.260 --> 01:01:14.460
of the inspiration for Star Trek, the Motion Picture, which you

1417
01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:19.500
promised me on the most sacred thing you know that you wouldn't

1418
01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:24.179
watch it at all until we were going to record it, and then what

1419
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:24.780
did you do?

1420
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:26.099
Tell the listener.

1421
01:01:26.099 --> 01:01:30.780
I only watched half of it because it was so bloody boring.

1422
01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:32.460
You know what?

1423
01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:34.559
Can I just tell you, there was one secret, right?

1424
01:01:34.619 --> 01:01:37.500
I couldn't believe it, where they were approaching the enterprise

1425
01:01:37.500 --> 01:01:38.699
in this shuttlecraft, right?

1426
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:42.659
It went on for nearly 10 minutes and it kept cutting back to Kirk

1427
01:01:42.659 --> 01:01:45.780
and Scotty's reactions for 10 fucking minutes.

1428
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:51.000
I mean, the model work was glorious, but I was like, is this ever

1429
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:52.980
going to move on from this effect shot, you know?

1430
01:01:53.219 --> 01:01:58.380
I think that you have to give it a pass because it's suddenly Star

1431
01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:01.559
Trek on the big screen, everyone's back together for the 1st time

1432
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:05.760
in years and they are absolutely milking it.

1433
01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:10.440
And plus, of course, they have 2001, so they want to be kind of a

1434
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.539
bit stately and self-important.

1435
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:15.420
I'm very keen to see the new remastered version.

1436
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:19.739
I thought visually it was one of the most impressive things I've

1437
01:02:19.739 --> 01:02:21.059
ever seen Star Trek do.

1438
01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:24.059
Like, it was telling a lot of the story just through visuals.

1439
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:28.320
Yeah, yeah, which was very different, but it was really slow.

1440
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:29.820
It is very slow.

1441
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.159
We tend to call it Star Trek the motionless picture.

1442
01:02:32.219 --> 01:02:33.539
That would be accurate.

1443
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:34.619
What do you think?

1444
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.880
The change thing?

1445
01:02:35.940 --> 01:02:38.699
Yeah, do you know what, Nathan, every time you and I talk about

1446
01:02:38.699 --> 01:02:39.599
the original series.

1447
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:40.679
I have a fucking ball.

1448
01:02:40.739 --> 01:02:42.119
Yeah.

1449
01:02:42.179 --> 01:02:46.739
It's really fun and I'm growing really to love it a great deal.

1450
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:49.860
And of course, now we have Strange New Worlds, which I think is

1451
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:56.579
kind of the closest in sort of sensibility to the original series

1452
01:02:56.579 --> 01:03:00.420
you know, closer than any other version of Star Trek, I think.

1453
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:04.739
You know, it's astonishing the reaction that strange new wealth is

1454
01:03:04.739 --> 01:03:05.039
hard.

1455
01:03:05.099 --> 01:03:07.980
It's been just entirely positive, hasn't it?

1456
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:08.760
Yeah.

1457
01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:09.360
Yeah.

1458
01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:12.059
Look, I mean, you know, there are people out there who still think

1459
01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:14.940
it's in a parallel universe because the sets have reflective

1460
01:03:14.940 --> 01:03:19.260
surfaces and and, you know, they're big and stuff, so it can't be

1461
01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:21.059
our prime universe or whatever.

1462
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:26.519
But I just think it has been really good in a really Star Trek-y

1463
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:26.820
way.

1464
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:30.719
And that's what I really look for in Star Trek.

1465
01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:34.440
And whenever, you know, even though Star Trek, the original series

1466
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:38.340
isn't my 1st Star Trek, whenever a subsequent Star Trek kind of

1467
01:03:38.340 --> 01:03:42.420
harkens back to it, I feel a little warm glow inside.

1468
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.900
So I'm absolutely happy to watch the Changeling, I think.

1469
01:03:46.019 --> 01:03:49.199
At this point, everybody will have heard us waxing lyrical about

1470
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.679
our 1st episode, which we both absolutely adored.

1471
01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:56.340
But I don't think there's been an original series episode that

1472
01:03:56.340 --> 01:04:00.960
we've watched. that we haven't really loved, even if it was pretty

1473
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:01.380
terrible.

1474
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:03.599
Well, I think Spot's brain is boring.

1475
01:04:03.659 --> 01:04:06.539
Oh, nice, and that was one of the best recorders we ever did.

1476
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:10.139
I think it's less fun than it ought to be.

1477
01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:13.500
Like an episode where a woman in thigh high boots steals Spock's

1478
01:04:13.500 --> 01:04:16.980
brain and runs off with it should be more fun than that episode

1479
01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:19.679
ended up being and that's a shame.

1480
01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:22.260
But you have to like the concept at least.

1481
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:25.079
And I think changing is a properly good episode.

1482
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:27.960
So I could be proved wrong, but I'm really looking forward to

1483
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:28.320
seeing it.

1484
01:04:28.380 --> 01:04:29.699
Wow, let's do it.

1485
01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:42.360
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1486
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:43.559
and Nathan Bottomley.

1487
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:47.400
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find

1488
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:50.039
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1489
01:04:50.099 --> 01:04:53.639
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1490
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:55.320
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1491
01:04:55.380 --> 01:04:59.880
This episode was recorded on the 23rd of May 2022 and released on

1492
01:04:59.880 --> 01:05:00.719
the 3rd of June.

1493
01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:05.039
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the original series, The

1494
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:05.760
Changeling.

1495
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:22.980
I've been willing to stop there.

1496
01:05:23.039 --> 01:05:25.800
Jesus Christ, that was a toughie, I'm telling you.

1497
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:26.940
Oh, my God.

1498
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:28.139
How do we keep talking?

1499
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:29.039
It's so bad.

1500
01:05:29.099 --> 01:05:31.920
I was really drunk during the last bond finger.

1501
01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:34.739
And towards the end of this shitty film that we're doing.

1502
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:37.739
I just keep hearing myself saying, oh, God.

1503
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:39.480
Oh Jesus Christ.

1504
01:05:39.539 --> 01:05:41.460
Like because it's so bad.

1505
01:05:41.579 --> 01:05:43.260
Oh, dear.

1506
01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:45.420
Oh, if I does something good to watch.

1507
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:46.320
All right.

1508
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:48.000
I can't guarantee that I'm going to do that.

1509
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.940
What's your parameters?

1510
01:05:51.059 --> 01:05:52.800
I am not going to tell you.

1511
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.460
It's got to be better than that, surely.

1512
01:05:56.579 --> 01:05:59.159
Yeah, yeah, we'll try and pick something good.

1513
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:04.260
Oh, imagine when we do something like Way of the Warrior, though.

1514
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:05.579
Oh my god, it's so good.

1515
01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:09.900
That would be pretty great, but that's not going to happen this

1516
01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:10.139
week.

1517
01:06:11.460 --> 01:06:13.019
All right.

1518
01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:16.619
If you have violent objections to this, then we can roll again, but

1519
01:06:16.619 --> 01:06:17.159
I have an idea.

1520
01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:18.000
Never.

1521
01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:19.320
Get me a phaser.

1522
01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:20.699
I'll get rid of Nathan.

1523
01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:24.119
Jesus Christ. it now.

1524
01:06:26.219 --> 01:06:27.599
Alright.

1525
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:34.260
All right, it's time for us to choose our episode for next time.