WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:37:05 1 00:00:22.260 --> 00:00:24.960 Hey, Joe. Hi. 2 00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:42.179 So last time the Randomiser chose for us, an episode of Star Trek Voyager, it's series 7, episode 12, uh, and it's called Lineage, how do you feel about us covering lineage? 3 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:44.640 I've watched it 3 times in the last week. 4 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:47.640 I don't want to see it again for a little while, if I'm honest. 5 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:52.799 I've seen it twice because I'm a professional. 6 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.619 And yeah, I don't want to see it again. 7 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:01.859 If you send me more pictures of that CGI baby. honestly. my god, we'll get there. 8 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:05.280 Come, dear, oh, dear. 9 00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:09.719 So this was on broadcast in January 2001. 10 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:20.280 So we have CGI from January 2001. and it's not the high point of CGI and we will definitely get to that. 11 00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:22.680 I mean, just to put this in context, yeah. 12 00:01:22.739 --> 00:01:27.840 We've talked about the CGI Babylon 5 before, yeah. and that was CGI before this. 13 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:31.620 So this is better CGI than Babylon 5, you know. 14 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:32.939 Yeah, yeah. 15 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:38.159 And Voyager has done some visually impressive things over the past few years at this point, I think. 16 00:01:38.219 --> 00:01:40.319 Like it often looks very good. 17 00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:45.060 If they're doing those, like, planet escapes and things like this. 18 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:52.079 Another season 7 episode workforce starts off with a pan across a planet and the detail in it is extraordinary. 19 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:57.900 But I think there's a lot big difference between creating a setting and doing a CGI person at this point. 20 00:01:57.959 --> 00:01:59.640 Yeah, yeah. 21 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:00.180 Yeah. 22 00:02:00.299 --> 00:02:02.939 Well I will definitely have things to say about that. 23 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.340 What's your feeling about Voyager generally? 24 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:08.879 Well, I feel like it should be called Star Trek Miss Potential. 25 00:02:09.060 --> 00:02:26.699 Because I think Voyager has a huge amount of potential and every time I watch Caretaker, I think this show had legs, like this cast has, it's a good cast on the whole, um, and they're doing interesting things with the characters at the beginning and they're throwing him off into an unknown part, area of space. 26 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:33.659 And then we get 7 years of the next generation, but kind of like fake the next generation. 27 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:37.259 We've, we've, you know, I'm not going to say the entire run of voyagers. shit. 28 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.379 There are highlights, absolute highlights. 29 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:45.180 You know, they poured money into some big epic 2 parters and, you know, there's some really fun stuff. 30 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:52.860 But as a whole, the premise of being lost in, you know, an aerospace and trying to find your way home was completely squandered and that's a shame. 31 00:02:52.979 --> 00:03:02.219 Yeah, I have a feeling that they just went to the Delta Quadrant to get out of Deep Space 9s way so that the 2 shows weren't affecting one another. 32 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:13.199 And it is just the sort of usual procedural that next generation and original trek were, and I don't think it has much ambition to be more than that. 33 00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:15.900 What's your personal feeling about Voyager? 34 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:26.099 Um, I don't have the kind of nostalgic affection for it that I have for Star Trek the Next Generation. 35 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:34.020 And I think that means that I'm less blind to its flaws than I am next, Jane. 36 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:40.020 But there are some good things in it, and the production is really great. 37 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:50.759 And you say that they don't make a lot of the actual premise and that's true, but it does change quite a bit over the 7 year run, I think. 38 00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:55.560 Even if it's just sort of different rubber-faced aliens this year or whatever. 39 00:03:55.620 --> 00:03:59.039 But it does sort of reinvent itself. 40 00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:07.500 I have a feeling that its politics are a little bit more conservative than I like for my Star Trek, but that won't come up this episode, I don't think. 41 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:12.060 Two things I want to acknowledge that quickly before we go into the episode. 42 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:16.620 I think this is a stronger cast than the next generation as a whole. 43 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:21.540 I think that the best cast members of Voyager are better than the best cars. 44 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.579 I think there's better chemistry in the next generation. 45 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:25.079 Yeah, yeah. 46 00:04:25.139 --> 00:04:28.259 We'll get to one of the MVPs of the show. 47 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:32.699 For sure, because he plays a massive role in this episode. 48 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:35.519 But obviously, your nostalgic love is for Next Generation. 49 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:38.939 So you can probably forgive, you know, Gates McFadden and Marina service. 50 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:43.800 Yeah, vacantly into space for an entire episode. gladly. 51 00:04:43.980 --> 00:04:48.660 Now, the other thing is, the annoying thing with Voyager is. every now and again, right? 52 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.620 They lean into the idea of the premise. 53 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:57.360 So they do scorpion and it's like, 0 my god, we're entering ball space. 54 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:00.240 And then in the next episode, like, wow, we're out of boards case now. 55 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.459 Like, you know, case pushed us out of that. 56 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:20.160 And then in season 6 they do Equinox and they've got a ship that went into the Delta Quadrant, exactly the same time as Voyager, and they've made all the wrong moves and they've stepped on races to get ahead and it's clearly been a much more, and why the hell haven't we been watching Star Trek Equinox instead of watching? 57 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:21.300 Because that sounds way more interesting. 58 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:40.379 And then in series 7, they do the most egregious thing they could possibly do, and they do the void where Voyager ends up in this strange period of space in the Delta Quadrant, where they have to form alliances with all these races for a single episode, and it's full of conflicts and space battles, and you're like, well, what the hell is this? 59 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.240 What have we been watching for the last 7 years? 60 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:44.100 Sorry, nice bit of a run. 61 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:46.560 It's like they know. 62 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:48.120 They know what they could be doing. 63 00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:49.920 And they're not doing it. 64 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:51.480 Yeah, yeah. 65 00:05:51.540 --> 00:06:00.180 And it seems to me to be a deliberate choice to have avoided doing things that are serialised and yeah, that's right. 66 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.199 That's right. 67 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.240 All right. 68 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:04.980 I think we've sold it to everyone now. 69 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:06.899 So here we go. 70 00:06:07.139 --> 00:06:09.540 On Netflix, all 7 seasons. 71 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:10.439 Knock yourself out. 72 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.860 Maybe not by now. 73 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:15.420 All right. 74 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:24.899 So let's, uh, I'm ready here on the very 1st frame of the episode, ready to press play, so I'll count us in. 75 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:33.060 Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. 76 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:36.959 It's like a spoon, isn't it, the Voyager? 77 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:38.040 I think it looks like a spoon. 78 00:06:38.100 --> 00:06:42.959 My toilet bowl looks very like Star Trek Voyager, that the front... 79 00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:43.500 Yeah. 80 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:45.600 The great tall bowen space. 81 00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:52.019 Now, clearly, Tom and B'Elana have just had sex in that scene. 82 00:06:52.139 --> 00:06:54.240 What have you had for breakfast nation? 83 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:56.639 I'm not going to even. 84 00:06:56.699 --> 00:06:58.680 I'm not even gonna answer that. 85 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:02.759 And now she's all postcoital over engineering. 86 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:04.199 She's in a rare good mood. 87 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:08.579 And we will talk a little bit about her temper because I think it's interesting. 88 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.959 She's not often in a good mood, is she? 89 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:15.120 She's not often this junior at work. 90 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:21.120 So she's going to discover that she's pregnant, but she has actually been pregnant before in the run of the show, has she? 91 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:24.660 Roxanne Dawson was. 92 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:24.899 Yeah. 93 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.180 And they did that thing of, not right, and it is. 94 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:28.139 Putting her in a jumper. 95 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:34.379 Against the fan thing of having the, you know, the medical coat on or being hidden behind consoles all the time, you know? 96 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:38.519 And, you know, her face is twice as large as it normally is, you know? 97 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:47.040 So I actually think there's the ghost of a more interesting episode here where she's inhabited by a parasite. 98 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:49.680 Like they they immediately... 99 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:56.639 They've never done that before. like the child in series 2 of Star Trek the Next Generation. 100 00:07:56.699 --> 00:08:04.860 But I do like there's a sort of lower decks vibe to them jumping to a ludicrous Star Trek explanation for what's going on. 101 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:08.100 Okay, this is my 1st favourite bit of this episode. 102 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:15.420 And it's all done to Jerry Ryan's performance where each of goes, I'm detecting another life form and Jerry Ryan's looking around the room going, where? 103 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:20.160 She's so used to their being, you know, spirits and aliens floating about that. 104 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:25.379 Okay, I rather like this title sequence. 105 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:31.740 I have recently watched it on YouTube in 4K and it looks incredible. 106 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.019 Go and check that out on YouTube. 107 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:34.980 It looks amazing. 108 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:38.759 I think that this tells the story too. 109 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:47.639 You know, like we talked about the DS9 titles last time and, you know, the way that the Enterprise whizzes past the camera. 110 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:51.659 And so having this just goes slowly. 111 00:08:51.659 --> 00:08:53.820 Yeah, for a nebula. 112 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:54.840 Going for another nebula. 113 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:56.460 I mean it's basically Voyager, isn't it? 114 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah. essentially. 115 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:02.340 That maybe there is the one that turns all the corridors around. 116 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:05.340 The next nebula is the one that inhabits people. 117 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.039 Oh my god. 118 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:11.159 I want to say, though. 119 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:15.899 I do want to say about Voyager, yeah. is, you know, I probably will rip at it quite a lot. 120 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:18.299 It is really watchable. 121 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:22.500 Like, even the worst episodes are very, it's very entertaining. 122 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:24.840 Like, it's kind of switch your brain off a lot the time. 123 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:25.919 Yeah. 124 00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:27.840 And I think that's what it's going for. 125 00:09:27.899 --> 00:09:30.240 I think that's why people would like to watch it. 126 00:09:30.299 --> 00:09:36.899 And I think this is the most watched Star Trek show on Netflix, but when they brought out the figures for, and I think it's because it's like friends. 127 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.419 You can just sort of put it on, have it on in the background. 128 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:40.559 It's kind of comforting. 129 00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:43.139 You know you're going to get to a nice ending, you know? 130 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:44.279 Yeah, yeah. 131 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:46.559 I think that's I think that's probably fair. 132 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:54.000 And I think maybe to sort of modern viewers, Star Trek, the Next Generation looks too old and because it had a couple of dud years at the beginning. 133 00:09:54.059 --> 00:10:00.000 Whereas this is sort of like the floor is the ceiling's not particularly high. 134 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:04.559 The floor is a bit higher than Star Trek the Next Generation, probably. 135 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:12.240 But this is an interesting episode of Voyager, in Safari, it is purely character driven. 136 00:10:12.299 --> 00:10:18.779 There is, there's nothing kind of science fiction in it's beyond her attempting to re-sequence the child later on. 137 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:20.279 Yeah, yeah. 138 00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:32.159 And also I think it has something to say, which it doesn't do in the sort of usual kind of metaphorical way so much, and we'll definitely get to it. 139 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:41.340 I want to start right now by saying how incredibly superb Robert Picardo is. 140 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.779 The best actor on this. 141 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:43.740 Probably. 142 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:49.259 Yeah. and one of the very, very best actors to ever be in Star Trek. 143 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.980 I just think he is unbelievably good at everything. 144 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.320 I think it's telling. 145 00:10:55.379 --> 00:10:55.980 Yeah. 146 00:10:56.039 --> 00:11:03.059 Very, very telling that they give, so he starts off and he's in series one, he's getting the odd scene, the odd comic scene, yeah. 147 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:09.659 But by the end, they've built a kind of a narrative into his character and he's getting the big hitter episodes, yeah? 148 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:11.580 And he's the holographic doctor. 149 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:19.019 You've got someone like Jakotay, who's giving a very bland performance, and I think they're kind of seeing that, who as the show goes on, he just gets forgotten. 150 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:25.379 So I think he was rewarded for how good he was as the show went on. 151 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:32.700 And in the latter half of the series, episodes like Latin image, lifeline, critical care, author author. 152 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:40.379 They have phenomenal Star Trek episodes and they're very, very good because Robert Picardo is, you know, spearheading them. 153 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:40.799 Yeah. 154 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:47.399 No, for me, he's up there with Doug Jones among the pantheon of the very, very best people ever to be in Star. 155 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:49.860 Oh, come on, that's Saru. 156 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:52.200 Oh, I don't know about Discovery. 157 00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:52.679 You know that. 158 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:57.179 Honestly, Jason, the way information, I'm afraid. 159 00:11:57.720 --> 00:11:59.820 Oh, God, here we go. 160 00:11:59.879 --> 00:12:03.659 So, okay, so we're about to head into them saying, right, we're going to keep this on the down low. 161 00:12:03.779 --> 00:12:05.340 We're not going to tell anyone. 162 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:06.000 I'm going to laugh. 163 00:12:06.059 --> 00:12:08.820 And of course, this is Bloody Voyager. 164 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.799 They're not going to keep this a secret for 2 minutes. 165 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:19.500 But also it's like a cheesy, low hanging gag as well. like a now we walk into the mess hall and everyone's applauding. 166 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:21.299 It's so cheesy. 167 00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:31.559 You just don't want Neelix to know anything about anything because you know he's going to, you know, anything he knows about, the tradition, your birthday, he's going to have a party in that mess hole themed around it, don't you? 168 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:35.100 So here's a secret confession. 169 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.620 I really quite like Neelix. 170 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:43.679 And I think that Ethan Phillips is very good at what he's given to do. 171 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:49.139 It's such a shame that we have to end that podcast here then, but bye, everybody. 172 00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:55.080 I mean, he's got stupid hair and his face is covered in latex and whatever. 173 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:58.980 They've meshed together the worst of every Star Trek aliens. 174 00:12:59.039 --> 00:12:59.700 What? 175 00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:00.659 Crazy hair. 176 00:13:00.779 --> 00:13:04.200 Weird bridges. teeth. 177 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:06.840 What look were they going for? 178 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.480 It's like the sick doctor's coat in Doctor Who. 179 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.220 It's like the worst possible taste. 180 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:14.039 He can be very charming, though. 181 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:14.519 I get that. 182 00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.419 He can be incredible. 183 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:15.840 Yeah. 184 00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:28.200 You know, like once they dump the whole, you know, anxious about dating Kess thing, which was just hideously embarrassing and impossible to watch, I think he's pretty good. 185 00:13:28.259 --> 00:13:36.120 And I remember Benson, when I was a kid, where he and Renee Aubourginois were on a sitcom together, for God's sake. 186 00:13:36.179 --> 00:13:40.620 I mean, unless, I mean, let's not pretend you can't be fucking annoying as well at times. 187 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:43.500 But they're writing him to be annoying. 188 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:49.200 And so I think it's a meteoric success on Ethan Phillips's part that he can sometimes be charming. 189 00:13:49.259 --> 00:13:50.220 Yeah. 190 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:54.539 Oh, no, it's Harry Kim, the walking cardboard of Star Trek Voyager. 191 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.559 Oh, and this, I mean, again, this conversation is so boring. 192 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:02.159 You know, it's a conversation about, don't you think? 193 00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:10.440 Like, oh, you know, you'll have a child and then you'll lose all your friends and could anything be more trite and less interesting? 194 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:12.960 You're in a fucking spaceship, guys. 195 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:14.039 You know, like... 196 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.279 This is this is the Miles and Julian Voyager. 197 00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:19.379 This is the bromance of Star Trek Voyager. 198 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.379 It is about 100th as interesting. 199 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.059 Yeah, yeah. 200 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.080 And you know why it is? 201 00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:28.980 It's because it's not Colin Meaney and Alexander Siddig. 202 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:30.720 It's Robert, what's his name? 203 00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:33.059 Robert Duncan McNeil and Garrett Wang. 204 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.820 And frankly, you know, sorry guys, I know you have your own podcast. 205 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:37.440 They're not very good actors. 206 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:40.080 Garrett Wang's pretty though. 207 00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:46.200 Well, yeah, well, you weren't married to an Asian man, so but he is very pretty, yes. 208 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:55.620 Oh, so now this is, I quite like this scene where, um, Chewbok doesn't even look up from his work that says, oh, well, congratulations. 209 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.799 He's the one person who doesn't know because he doesn't listen to gossip on Voyager. 210 00:14:58.860 --> 00:14:59.759 Yeah, yeah. 211 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:04.019 But again, this scene is incredibly boring and doesn't go anywhere. 212 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.620 And like, can it possibly go anywhere? 213 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:14.519 The baby actually gets born when, um, when in the final episode when they reach Earth. 214 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.919 So we never see him actually being a parent. 215 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.320 Yeah, we go. lost potential again. 216 00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:20.340 They could have had the baby. 217 00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:26.700 Yeah, maybe we take a start, Klingon pregnancies are very quick and they have the baby within a couple of episodes and then we deal with the fallout. 218 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:31.019 Yeah, because we know Klingon childhoods are incredibly quick from Alexander. 219 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:32.220 Yeah exactly. 220 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.639 They're just adults instantly. 221 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:40.259 But yeah, no, this, I think this is a sort of contractual obligation scene. 222 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:42.360 We've got to give Tim Russ something to do. 223 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:46.860 And I also think that Tim Russ is a pretty strong performer as well. 224 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:53.580 I think he was given material worthy of him once a year, which is very annoying. you know. 225 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:57.840 He's very often at his console saying, you know, they're firing at us, you know, and things like that. 226 00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:00.899 The Councillor Troy, but the tactical version. 227 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.480 It's easy to forget that he's there. 228 00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:04.080 I think. 229 00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:06.419 But I think he is... 230 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.539 I know it's not a website, but you remember Mald, where he, my Mald, where Brad Dorff, and he becomes like a serial killer. 231 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:14.700 He's fucking terrifying in that. 232 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:15.600 Yeah. 233 00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:19.559 Instead, he's having to do sort of tedious Vulcan acting here, which is a bit bad. 234 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:26.279 Imagine if in that episode there was some like latent serial killer in him that ran through the rest of the city. that would have been very interesting Yeah, yeah. 235 00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:28.620 He could just pick off the occasional person in the mess. 236 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:30.419 Here we go. 237 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:35.940 She's she's annoyed now because she's like, oh, Janeway is practically relieved me of command because I'm pregnant. 238 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:44.399 We didn't even talk about that scene, but I think that Janeway is so incredibly warm in that scene. 239 00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:46.200 It's absolutely lovely. 240 00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:51.179 Kate Mulgrew is... she's an unsung hero of the show. 241 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:51.840 She's not really. 242 00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:53.159 People do sing her praises. 243 00:16:53.220 --> 00:17:01.620 I think that Kate Mulgrew is terrific in Star Trek Voyager, and I think Captain Janeway is written terribly. 244 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:03.120 And take of that what you will. 245 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:06.839 She does her best with some pretty chonky material throughout the run. 246 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:25.559 Yeah, but I think that there's no real kind of, I mean, I don't know before, like, we've talked about this before, um, but Tom Paris really has kind of, like, just a sort of bundle of uninteresting characteristics, but, you know, I think. 247 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:26.519 I think he started well. 248 00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:33.359 I think in that 1st episode where he's in the penal colony and then he goes and he's got history with Chakotay, and there's a lot of tension with him. 249 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:38.519 And in series 2, where they're trying to pretend that he's like a rebel in the course. and it's all a big fan. 250 00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:39.420 That's really interesting. 251 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:42.779 And then from free onwards, he just becomes kind of like, you know, your Starfleet guy. 252 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:44.160 Yeah. 253 00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:44.880 Yeah. 254 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:52.440 And let's not forget the thing that they do, you know, 3 times a season when they want to do like a quirky episode and that's Tom Paris. 255 00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:55.259 Oh my god, I'm absolutely obsessed with cartoons. 256 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:56.400 I'm absolutely attracted. 257 00:17:57.180 --> 00:18:02.339 Yeah, whatever it is, they were like, oh, aren't you an expert in 20th century fashion? 258 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.960 Oh, I just... 259 00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:05.279 Very strange. 260 00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:12.720 And again, this whole conversation here that we've just had is also just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. 261 00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:20.819 I mean, presumably they've been pregnant for like a couple of hours as far as they're aware, and they're already sick of people offering them advice. 262 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.380 It's all just infected. 263 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:24.420 I mean, by the end of the episode, the baby's kicking. 264 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:28.440 So I'm assuming we're quite far along already. 7 weeks. 265 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:35.940 Now look at look at Robert Picardo here. where he's accidentally given the game away. 266 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:39.420 It's like he's comic timing and his sort of silly. 267 00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:42.599 You cannot infer that from what I said. 268 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:45.839 Please don't delete my sub routines, banana. 269 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:56.700 I actually think that he gets the best scene in the episode and we'll get there because I think that there's an astoundingly good scene. 270 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:57.480 I agree with you. 271 00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.539 I think it comes right at the end of the episode, if we're talking about the same scene. 272 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:09.599 But, um, I think with Voyage as well, the cast, um, there is such a difference between the strongest members and the weakest members. 273 00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:13.740 It's high, like it's a dramatic kind of difference between the two. 274 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:16.980 And you just have to watch this scene and see Robert Kardo acting. 275 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:19.140 And Robert Bunker, Neil acting. 276 00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:22.200 We're in 2 different worlds, aren't we? 277 00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:23.099 Yeah. 278 00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:35.519 Yeah, I mean, I think, um, I think B'Alana's a little bit one note as a character, but I do think that, um, as an actor, yeah, she's got a lot of charm. 279 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:41.940 And when they give her an episode. like you look at remember in series three, the Holocaust episode where she's playing. 280 00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:43.680 She is phenomenally good. 281 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:45.059 If they stretch her. 282 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:46.200 She's very good. 283 00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:48.119 Yeah. 284 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:52.259 Here, like I'm not sold on how she behaves here. 285 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.640 No, me. 286 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.200 Oh, and here we go. 287 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.400 The CGI baby. 288 00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:58.140 Oh, it's so beautiful. 289 00:19:58.200 --> 00:19:59.940 It's fucking hideous. 290 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.460 It's really really horrible. 291 00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:09.839 And that's not, I'm not being racist about Klingon human baking. 292 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:15.240 No, no, it's just an ugly CG pixel baby. 293 00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:16.259 It's horrible. 294 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:22.680 Do you remember Covenant in DS9 series 7 where they went to the other extreme and they had the animatronic baby? 295 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.640 And the hedge was going, yep, yep, yep. 296 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:28.140 It was really terrible. 297 00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:32.220 So I don't know, maybe the CGO is a better approach. 298 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:33.119 It was a better choice. 299 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.940 Or they could have just addressed a dog up to look like a baby. 300 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.200 Mark and I, Mark and I wrote said the thing wouldn't bloody, like, stop. 301 00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:41.759 And then head was just going crazy. 302 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.039 I was probably possessed. 303 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.839 Oh, they had a nice comfy bed there in their clothes. 304 00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:49.440 They do. 305 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.700 Why don't they have like space space blankets like on the Enterprise? 306 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.980 No, because in DS9, They've got those horrible space cushions, those kind of gray cushions. 307 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:00.779 I'd much rather have a bed like this. 308 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:01.500 Oh, no. 309 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:05.279 Okay, so here we are in the stock standard Star Trek forest number three. 310 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:07.680 Oh my god, it's so bad. 311 00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:10.619 It's like a soap opera, like a daytime soap opera. 312 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:16.859 We can't afford to go outside, so we're just going on a camping trip to a TV studio. 313 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:18.660 It's super miserable. 314 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:24.000 I mean, the lighting, they've got good at the lighting from Star Trek, the next generation, and so the lighting isn't too bad. 315 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:25.440 It's kind of fuzzy. 316 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:26.759 Is that because it's a flashback? 317 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:32.880 Yeah, I think that there's a kind of sort of glowy light theme. original series. 318 00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:41.460 Well, you know, when you look at a female character and it goes kind of romantically fuzzy and then and then it goes very sharp when you go back to them and, this looks like that, that's all weird. 319 00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:44.339 Yeah, I think they've done that to make it a flashback. 320 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.779 Everything's slightly glowy. 321 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.299 Now, what's interesting, isn't he? 322 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:49.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 323 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:51.000 Oh no, he really is. 324 00:21:51.599 --> 00:22:06.059 What I think is interesting, right, is that B'lana is half Klingon, but her family, her human family, so her father, like she's a Latina woman, isn't she? 325 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:10.019 So she's, yeah, and it's in her name, yeah. 326 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:15.299 Um, like, you know, Torres, her last name is clearly sort of Spanish. 327 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:29.759 Um, and so there is a sort of weird thing in which the Klingon thing with the irrational anger and stuff is a little bit of a stand in for that because I think that... 328 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:31.380 I think that's a bit cheap and a bit obvious. 329 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:45.420 It is a little bit obvious, but what it didn't enables this episode to do is to be about what it's like to grow up as a member of a minority, like a racial minority. 330 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:50.099 And we don't neither of us know what it's like. 331 00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:58.619 Um, and, um, but there's all sorts of things here that ring really true. 332 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.460 And, you know, we'll get to it, I think. 333 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.720 But I just think that it's super interesting. 334 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:15.720 And so her response is dismissed by her father and to some degree by Tom Paris as well. 335 00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:18.000 Yeah, who is a white man. 336 00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:30.119 Towards the end of the episode, he's the one that kind of endorses her and the baby and the writing kind of confirms that, you know, like he's the one saying, you know, you're okay as you are, the baby's okay. 337 00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:32.160 But it's a white man saying that to her, you know? 338 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:33.180 Yeah, yeah. 339 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.339 But what I think is interesting. 340 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:44.099 So, so this, that, the other thing here too is that this is kind of a bit crap, this sort of flashback B plot. 341 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.299 It's very kind of whatever. 342 00:23:45.359 --> 00:24:01.859 But what's interesting is I think we already know that this is going to be a sort of experience of racism thing because she's dismayed that the baby will have the racial characteristics that she was teased for as a child, right? 343 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:06.119 Now we see this where she's being fed a worm by these other kids. 344 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:07.980 But do you know what? 345 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:10.140 I don't think the 2 correlate well. 346 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:22.259 Because the idea is the father saying, oh, you know, I can't handle her being a Klingon and then walking out on their lives and her re-sequencing her baby to have no... 347 00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:23.460 It's just so exciting. 348 00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:24.839 Yeah, yeah. 349 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:28.799 I feel like that could have worked if it had been a little subtler. 350 00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:30.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 351 00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:35.279 But, I mean, it is Star Trek, and so it's going to be sort of absurd. to some degree. 352 00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:37.079 I've got a question for you then. 353 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:37.799 Yeah. 354 00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:41.519 Is her wanting to re-sequence the baby and remove... 355 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.000 Is that like the most racist act in all of Star Trek? 356 00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:54.119 But I think, I mean, it's kind of dealt with slightly in in faces, isn't it? 357 00:24:54.180 --> 00:25:00.240 Which I only have a sort of vague memory of where the 2 halves of them are split into a human and a Klingon. about subtlety, yeah. 358 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:01.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 359 00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:04.259 But here. 360 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:13.920 So have a look at this too, because you might be right, because look, that's sort of 12-year-old, you know, baby. very prissy, isn't she? 361 00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:15.000 Yeah, yeah. 362 00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:23.700 But when she re-sequences her DNA, and she's got dark hair and dark eyes because her mother's Latina, she's blonde, isn't she? 363 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:56.099 And she's blonde when, so, you know, like I've heard stories of, of people disliking members of sort of my minority racial groups disliking some features that they have that set them apart, you know, like black women, black women getting comfortable with their natural hair, um, you know, stuff like that, people being dismayed by the things that set them apart, and that's what she's experiencing here, even though they're stupid sort of Klingon ridges or whatever. 364 00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:01.440 But I do think the fact that the baby goes from being dark-haired to blonde is kind of... 365 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:02.579 Very telling, doesn't it? 366 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:07.799 But I think you're giving this a smarter reading than what's in the writing here. 367 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:10.740 No, I think it's actually present. 368 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:12.480 I think that that's what they're trying to do. 369 00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:23.759 And you and I, before we started recording, talked about how Roxanne Dawson felt about this episode and how moved she was by it. 370 00:26:23.819 --> 00:26:25.559 Move to tea, she says. 371 00:26:25.619 --> 00:26:26.519 Yeah, yeah. 372 00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:32.099 And it is that thing about, um, remember, she's a mother at this point as well. 373 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.180 So she could have been talking about it. 374 00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:33.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 375 00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:34.859 All of that, you know. 376 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:37.500 But she's not a white woman. 377 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:54.299 Like she has presumably experienced some form of racism as a child and some sort of, you know, like some anxiety about being a member of a sort of minority racial group and the way that you get treated. 378 00:26:54.359 --> 00:27:00.960 And initially I thought that it was just the gark thing with the, you know, putting the worm on her sandwich that this was going to be about. 379 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:06.480 But it actually does take a turn and it is a little bit more convincingly terrible than that. 380 00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:11.880 So this is leaning sensitively into race then. 381 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:20.579 Why doesn't this have the profound impact of something like far beyond the stars, which, you know, when you... 382 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:28.200 Like the last scene where Avery Brooks breaks down in front of everybody, it is unforgettable, isn't it? 383 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:30.240 Whereas this, you know, were you going to remember this next week? 384 00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:42.539 No, probably not, but it is, and it is making it more palatable by having it be about Klingons, whereas, you know, far beyond the stars is about a black man, you know, in America in the 50s or whatever. 385 00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:44.519 Um, is it the 50s? 386 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:45.180 I'm not sure. 387 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.700 But um, in the 20th century anyway. 388 00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:54.480 What you're saying is that they're doing something interesting with the idea of race, but it's not doing anything, especially engaging with it. 389 00:27:54.539 --> 00:28:05.819 Well, I think that what's interesting is that both Tom and her father tell her she needs to be less sensitive. 390 00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:16.680 And her father compares the racism she experiences at school with him being made fun of for falling asleep in class, right? 391 00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:20.819 And she says it's not like that and he doesn't believe her. 392 00:28:20.940 --> 00:28:22.799 And Tom at one point. 393 00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:24.240 Yeah, here. 394 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:33.180 She's explaining what it felt like to her and he, a white man, is saying that's not going to be our daughter's experience. 395 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:33.839 I know that. 396 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.539 And the thing is that he can't possibly know. 397 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:37.619 How could he know? 398 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.359 And so her feelings. 399 00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:42.119 Yeah, she keeps saying, you don't understand what it's like. 400 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.240 And he's inclined to make it okay. 401 00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:54.299 Well, do you think then, obviously, you and I are both white men, do you think a person of colour watching this? 402 00:28:54.359 --> 00:29:03.420 Could, you know, we both said, after we watched it, someone, that was a little bit tedious, it was a bit pat, you know, blah, blah, would watch this and actually would be moved by it. 403 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:11.220 Well, I don't know, but I did, I found that the most interesting part of the episode was the way we dealt with racism. 404 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:12.779 And Jama is a person of colour. 405 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.160 Jam with reviews online. 406 00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:16.380 And I think he's one of the biggest trek reviewers online. 407 00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:22.200 He loved this. and thought it was very hard hitting and very moving. 408 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.839 So maybe there is something in that. 409 00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:27.059 Yeah, well, I love to see it. 410 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.039 Sorry, sorry to take you away from race. 411 00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:32.759 This bit where I love the way Janeway can cut straight to the point sometimes. 412 00:29:32.819 --> 00:29:36.000 She's basically, I sort shit out. sort your marriage out. okay? 413 00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:38.880 I'm not getting involved and just awesome out. 414 00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:42.720 I'm in awe of the way she gets up out of the chair in a minute. 415 00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:43.380 It's so great. 416 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.359 She's just so good. 417 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:47.099 It always looks so fabulous, doesn't it? 418 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:48.359 came on through, honestly. 419 00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:49.740 When they let her have it down. 420 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:55.319 Obviously, it was like the Avery Brooks effect in series one for 3 when they force her to have it tied back in a very masculine way. 421 00:29:55.380 --> 00:30:00.599 Oh, no, she has a sort of French curl like Richie Cunningham's mother. 422 00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:01.500 I really liked it. 423 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:03.000 When it comes down, I love it. 424 00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:08.700 And then you know when it's gone to shit in like year of hell because it's all over the place and in disarray, you know? 425 00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:17.099 And see, look here is Tom dismissing her feelings about, you know, which... 426 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:18.480 Oh, I hate this line. 427 00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:21.000 Oh, it's not just some kind of hormonal outburst. 428 00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:22.740 That's such a get up. 429 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:24.180 Look at her getting up out of the chair. 430 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.519 How grateful was that? 431 00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:29.160 She's such a demon. 432 00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:30.720 There you go. sorting this out. 433 00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:31.619 It's marital. 434 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:32.279 Get out. 435 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.700 Although she does it in a very sensitive way, you know? 436 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:46.079 I actually think that, you know, there are problems with the way that she's characterised and stuff, but I like how properly tough she is. 437 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:51.779 And she's the 1st female captain, you know, and I think the 1st woman to helm a Star Trek show. 438 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.140 It's only happened since one time, hasn't it? 439 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:55.799 Oh, maybe true. 440 00:30:55.859 --> 00:31:03.180 It's very interesting because I think Mulgrew can be scarier and more authoritative than Avery Brooks. 441 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:09.119 And I think Avery Brooks can be gentler and more like paternal than Mulgrew. 442 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.700 And you know, you wouldn't think that would be the case with those 2 actors. 443 00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:14.460 Oh, no, here we go. 444 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.819 So now Tom Harris has been basically kicked out of his house. 445 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:19.500 So he's off to Harry Kitten's house. 446 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:24.839 And this has happened a few times throughout the run where Harry Kim is playing his saxophone because apparently that makes sense. for a week? 447 00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:25.920 Like, what's with that bag? 448 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.579 Why do they think that that saxophone makes hurricane interesting? 449 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.240 I think they're trying to do the Riker thing because Riker plays... 450 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:34.319 What about the clarinet? 451 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:35.759 No, no, no. 452 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:40.559 So Harry played the clarinet originally and then branched out to the saxophone. 453 00:31:40.619 --> 00:31:41.339 Oh, right. 454 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:42.240 I could place the trombone. 455 00:31:42.299 --> 00:31:42.839 Trumpet. 456 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:43.440 Yeah. 457 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:43.920 Trombone. 458 00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:44.579 Yeah. 459 00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:45.539 Yeah. 460 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.900 But this is just like absolute sitcom bullshit. 461 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.119 It's so played and so tried. 462 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:56.880 It's like Darren Stevens being zapped downstairs to the couch in bewitched, you know? 463 00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.740 It's some... 464 00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:01.559 And I hate to keep making the comparisons and I know I do this. 465 00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:10.079 This is the sort of scene they would ace India Snide with the fully formed characters and, you know, better actors. 466 00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.000 This scene would sing. 467 00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:23.160 I've seen scene. the great scene between Julian and Miles when Keiko's coming over and they've got clear the crap out of their bachelor pad before she gets home and it's hilarious, you know? 468 00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:35.519 You see, I think because Voyager is just procedural, like um, Star Trek and Star Trek, the Next Generation, and and Deep Say sign is the 1st one that isn't. 469 00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:40.859 You know, this is we go to a planet, we encounter a space problem and we solve it. 470 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:50.099 And so that doesn't require detail characterisation beyond what people are competent at, particularly if the characters aren't going to disagree with one another very much. 471 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:57.960 I would agree with what you're saying there, but the doctor and 7 of 9 have a very distinct character arc. 472 00:32:58.019 --> 00:32:59.279 They can do it. 473 00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:01.799 They just choose not to do it with Harry. 474 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:02.940 No, that's right. 475 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:04.380 Neelix. 476 00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:09.359 When we don't have a space problem this week, the show founders, it's got nothing to fall back on. 477 00:33:09.420 --> 00:33:13.500 Whereas House of Quark isn't a space problem episode, really. 478 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:14.039 Is it? 479 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:18.240 It's like a sitcom, hilarious, you know, it's almond Clark. 480 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.220 Yeah, Clark tells lies and gets himself into bother kind of gag. 481 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.960 And Deep Space 9 can cope with that, but I think Voyager falls. 482 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:34.920 Look at the signs where we've perked up during this so far when Kate Mulgra was on screen when Jerry Ryan was on screen. 483 00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:38.519 It's not any of the main actors that are taking part in this episode, is it? 484 00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:39.660 No. 485 00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:41.940 So it's like luck of the draw from weeks to week. 486 00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:43.980 Is this going to be about one of the good actors, right? 487 00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:45.900 you might be well characterised then. 488 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:56.940 Yeah, so here's the here's the bit that I was talking about before where little B'Elana explains to her dad about the racism she experiences and he dismisses it. 489 00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:02.339 So he's an asshole, I think, is... 490 00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:08.219 Yeah, but I don't think the episode is characterising him as an asshole, and I don't think... 491 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:08.880 Do you think? 492 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.199 I don't think it's hard enough then. 493 00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:14.219 I think the episode is kind of being written by a white man. 494 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.280 Like, I don't know. 495 00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.139 It's um, I don't know who it is. 496 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:20.219 It's James Carn. 497 00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:22.619 I don't know. possibly not. 498 00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:28.019 I wanted to talk very quickly about Tom and B'Elana and their relationship. 499 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.800 Because it is, is it the only relationship? 500 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.199 In the entire run, I think it is. 501 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:42.900 And it only hits in, so they have Tom Paris throughout, series one to 3 trying to bed, what, Kiz and the Delaney sisters and anyone he can find, you know? 502 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:43.980 The lady sisters. 503 00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:44.940 They turn up. 504 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.519 Do you remember when they turn off in their chaotic program? 505 00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:52.380 It's very funny that's right One of the rare examples of them paying something off. 506 00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:57.179 And then in series 4, they decided, no, we're going to pair up Tom and Belana. 507 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.539 And it's an interesting idea and they're very different characters. 508 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:16.619 But, It's all very sitcom. all of the time, and it's never got much depth to it, and I don't know if it's the actors, I don't know if it's the writing, but it's all, you know, in series 4, they're like kind of in corridors, snogging, and someone comes on, oh, quick, let's get in this cupboard. 509 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:24.900 It's all played like that I'm right up to like when they're getting married and it's like, oh, Tom Paris is more interested in this space race, then getting narrow to Balana. 510 00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:37.920 I'm not really convinced by the relationship, but every now and again, and I think the end of this episode as hysterical as it is, I do buy into the fact that there are a couple, I think, going on a journey together. 511 00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:44.039 But if, wow, there's no relationships in TNG is there that I can think of. 512 00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:48.179 Well, you know, Deanna and Worf briefly. 513 00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.280 Oh, God, it's terrible. 514 00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:53.280 Any tangible ones? 515 00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:54.659 No, no. 516 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.139 I mean, you know, like Riker and Deanna are exes. 517 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:03.900 Okay, like Dax and Worf then in DS9, where, you know, they're instantly flirting and they get odd. 518 00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:12.659 And, and you go on a real journey and it's like an emotional journey where you're investing in those 2 characters and where they're going to the point where she dies and you're devastated because he's then on his own. 519 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:14.340 And that has fallout. 520 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:15.480 Whereas this is very different. 521 00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:19.559 This is just very comedy sitcom relationship. 522 00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.940 But he doesn't want to do any of that stuff because it's the space anomaly of the week show. 523 00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:27.480 And so there's a bit of window dressing here. 524 00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:30.179 And see, look at this. 525 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:31.380 He is an asshole. 526 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:31.920 Look at this. 527 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:32.699 What a racist. 528 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:33.539 He's doing it. 529 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.920 She's just in the 10 over there. 530 00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:36.179 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 531 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:36.780 Yeah. 532 00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.539 And you think that's the reveal. 533 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.119 So we have that close-up of her face. 534 00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:43.739 She's been thinking about that. 535 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:58.320 We think that's the climax of the flashback, the moment where her father basically rejects her and her mother in her hearing, which, um, and so then getting the extra thing, I think, is a fantastic twist. 536 00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:00.780 Could Jocose be any more boring? 537 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:04.019 Like, yeah, oh my god. 538 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.059 Oh my goodness. 539 00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:12.780 Okay, I know, I'm talking about a lot of other episodes here, but I think you kind of need to revoyager, because there are moments where these characters work. 540 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:24.840 There's an episode in series 2 where they lean into the Janeway Chakotay relationship where they're stuck on a planet and they acknowledge that they're going to have a relationship because they're stuck on and they start holding hands and things. 541 00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:28.920 And if they run with that, he could have been so interesting. 542 00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:31.980 And it's like, you know, the captain's bit on the side, you know? 543 00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:36.300 No, she's she only fucks holograms. 544 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:42.900 That's my point, though, is that there are interesting opportunities to explore and they never take that interesting opportunity. 545 00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:45.119 Yeah, no. 546 00:37:45.179 --> 00:37:46.980 And they don't want to. 547 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.840 And I think that... 548 00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:50.280 Why don't they want to make the show interesting? 549 00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:55.800 Well, because they think the space anomalies and the solving space anomaly problems are interesting. 550 00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:57.480 I think that's it. 551 00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:59.880 We've had 7 years of that on TNG. 552 00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.440 We don't think that seasons. 553 00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:02.820 That's the problem. 554 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.860 That's precisely the problem, I think. 555 00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:07.139 Oh, dear. 556 00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:07.559 Oh, okay. 557 00:38:07.619 --> 00:38:09.900 So this fake out doctor now, right? 558 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:14.699 I remember when I was 1st watching this game, yeah, she's reprogrammed. like there's no there's no hint. 559 00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:16.619 There's no, she's there going, what? 560 00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:17.159 What is it? 561 00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:22.260 Like pretending that she doesn't know that she's pre-programmed, but it's very... some great acting from Roxanne. 562 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:24.719 And he's playing it slightly differently as well. 563 00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:29.460 He's slightly more wooden, just not, you know, data level wooden, but. 564 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:30.960 Have you watched Voyager? 565 00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:33.719 He's played the evil doctor in about 20 different ways so far. 566 00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:35.639 He knows how to do this now. 567 00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:38.940 He's so good He is so good. 568 00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:43.440 I don't know what Tom is thinking there. 569 00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:45.960 It doesn't last long, does it? 570 00:38:46.019 --> 00:38:47.579 Because within about 30 seconds. 571 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:51.119 Him and 7 are trying to like get in there and stop this from happening. 572 00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:54.239 Yeah, it's and it's kind of bullshit. 573 00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:57.119 It is like, because it's too over the top. 574 00:38:57.179 --> 00:39:00.480 And so we need some jeopardy this episode. 575 00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:09.599 And so she just goes to town, you know, like she's reprogrammed the doctor, erected a force field, you know, the whole thing. 576 00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:10.920 Did she thing would come of this? 577 00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:13.980 Like, did she think that him and Tom were, Oh, well, you know, I've done it now. 578 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:18.659 You know, I've locked you out and we've done the re-sequencing and now we're just going to have a lovely human baby and everything's going to be fine. 579 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.780 He probably leave her for doing this for like... 580 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.380 No, no, no. 581 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.860 She knows she's on Voyager and everyone will have forgotten all this by next week. true. 582 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.519 Oh my word. 583 00:39:26.579 --> 00:39:28.619 Can I just say, look, Egypt's just there. 584 00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:33.179 Wasn't it fabulous when they took his eye out in Picard? 585 00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:34.860 They kill him in Picard. 586 00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:36.000 He's dead. 587 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.260 Oh, he was so boring. 588 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:37.800 He deserved it. 589 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:40.500 Oh boy, Chip. 590 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:42.300 There's too many characters here. 591 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:54.300 So you've got 7 and Tuvok, who are always just hilarious in scenes together because they're 2 really good actors having to give it this sort of flat alien space delivery, which is so terrible. 592 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.900 And cherry ride is so much better in Picard because... 593 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:02.280 I realised after watching Picard how restrained she was in this. 594 00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:04.559 Yeah, I think she's fantastic. 595 00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:08.280 Like, I think she's absolutely superb and much better than we had any right to expect. 596 00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:11.579 She would be, this sort of near naked woman. 597 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:22.860 Um, I mean, I, I, I think by this point in series 7, actually, they've kind of exhausted her, what they can do with our own Voyager, because in four, 5, and six, they just do so much with seven. 598 00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:25.559 But by this point, you're almost getting like 7 fatigue. 599 00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:35.460 But those initial couple of years where her and Mulgrew aren't getting on and the actual tension between the actors is there on the screen, it's the most interesting Voyager ever was. 600 00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:37.320 Yeah, yeah. 601 00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.000 That was a... 602 00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:56.579 I always love a big sort of unexpected cast change, you know, like where the writers have to sort of accommodate something, like the end of series 6 of Deep Space 9, and it does open up a show, even a show like Voyager, which is not particularly serialised, which forces it to do something new. 603 00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:58.199 Sorry to interrupt you. 604 00:40:58.260 --> 00:41:00.659 You know what we've been talking about lighting in the last 2 episodes. 605 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:03.780 Yes, Enterprise and House of War. 606 00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:05.400 Have you noticed now we've gone dramatic? 607 00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:09.360 Suddenly the Sick Bay lights have gone right down. as the doctors are about to do something. 608 00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:12.659 In the middle of a medical procedure, you have the lights right up, wouldn't you? 609 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:19.019 He explained in the previous episode that it was to encourage the previous scene rather that it was to encourage vascular dilation. 610 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.199 Oh, they gave a reason for the dramatic. 611 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.119 There's a space reason for the dramatic lighting. 612 00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:25.320 They're a dead hand to this now. 613 00:41:28.139 --> 00:41:30.960 Okay, so this sequence here. 614 00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:39.960 I do like it, um, as they actually have to talk about what is wrong with her and she has to reveal that her dad left. 615 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:43.739 But it does get very hysterical at times. 616 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.119 And I'm overwhelmed. 617 00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:50.219 Like, no, you know, I talk about far beyond the stars earlier, and that bit with Avery Brooks, again, that's way hysterical. 618 00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:56.940 I often find that I moved when the performances brought down with people. 619 00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:03.179 And this, you know, I'm very moved because of what she's saying, it's moving, but it is very shouty in a minute. 620 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:04.980 He's like, come on, Bilana. 621 00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:05.639 Talk to me. 622 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:10.199 Have you ever had a conversation like that with your partner because I don't have. 623 00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:10.500 No. 624 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:13.980 Oh no, I did once. 625 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.440 I did once with an ex, actually, at the pier. 626 00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:20.340 I was leaving him, like leaving leaving him and he's like, don't walk away from me. 627 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.480 So I have that one conversation like a soap opera. 628 00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:28.320 Sorry, a bit of a diet. 629 00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.139 Well, you know, it's this scene, isn't it? 630 00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:39.239 I also think what, I mean, yes, I never thought you'd go this far. 631 00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:52.559 It is ridiculous, and that's part of the problem, is the lengths that she goes to, and they do deal with the fallout from it beautifully well, I think. just absolutely supported. 632 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.019 Yeah, the next thing where she comes into apology. 633 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:55.739 God, it's good. 634 00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:56.940 That's the best thing about the whole episode. 635 00:42:57.420 --> 00:42:58.139 Oh, it's wonderful. 636 00:42:58.199 --> 00:42:59.940 But it should have be. 637 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:01.619 This should be the best thing. 638 00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.179 Yeah, yeah. 639 00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:07.679 Oh, no, I know you're not. 640 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:10.800 You not my father, for God's sake. 641 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:16.320 A lot of our audience will be Doctor Who fans, and this reminds me of Curtis Ferry. 642 00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:17.940 I didn't know she was my mum. 643 00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:20.940 It's very of that ilk, this line. 644 00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:27.239 But this, I think this is actually properly good. 645 00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:39.659 Um, You know, and she's having to say it rather than getting us to see it because, you know, obviously we can't see how she was daddy's little girl and he really loved her and all of that sort of thing. 646 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:43.559 And then he can't take anymore because he's a massive fucking racist. 647 00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:48.539 And, um, but the thing... 648 00:43:48.539 --> 00:43:49.500 Say what you think, Nathan. 649 00:43:50.460 --> 00:43:53.340 But the thing that's great. 650 00:43:53.400 --> 00:44:02.519 The thing that's really good is that she tells him to leave and he leaves 12 days later. 651 00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:21.179 And Tom says it can't be because you told him to leave and she says she doesn't buy that because it's absolutely possible from what we see that she gave him the idea, you know, and that's why he left. 652 00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.880 Okay, I've just spent 7 seasons with her, all right? 653 00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:26.639 And she's a lot of hard-bloody work. would have left there as well. 654 00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:29.519 Imagine her as a hormonal teenager. 655 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:31.559 But look at it. 656 00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:33.900 She's so good. like in the flashback. 657 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:38.519 She's upgrading his, um, she's upgrading his fishing rod. 658 00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:41.099 She's reading quietly. 659 00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:42.960 Like she's good. 660 00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:44.760 She's a good girl. 661 00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:50.639 And I, you know, like Star Trek doesn't do sort of German expressionism or anything. 662 00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:54.960 We're supposed to understand that this is what really happened rather than just her version of events. 663 00:44:55.019 --> 00:45:04.320 And we see a good, quiet, like a bit moody little girl, but who's experiencing racism and is feeling bad about it. 664 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:06.659 And he's dismissing her. 665 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:07.860 Yeah, yeah. 666 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:08.820 Yeah. 667 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:19.860 But I mean, so I suppose that does in a way, I still don't think it's great, but it does inform her behaviour throughout the last 7 years of why she's had this identity issue. 668 00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:21.119 Yeah. 669 00:45:21.179 --> 00:45:21.900 Yeah. 670 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:27.900 It's it's perhaps not as satisfied payoff as it could be, but it's something. 671 00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:32.880 They're giving it some context, at least, because until when I thought, she's just been like, I hate being Klingon, and that's it. 672 00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:34.860 That's, that's all, but for no reason. 673 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:35.340 Yeah. 674 00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:40.739 And she doesn't, the reason that she hates being Klingon is because she experienced racism as a child. 675 00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:46.320 See, I can't I can't hear them say in the dialogue, obviously, because we've got the sound hand, but I'm looking at Roxanne Dawson. 676 00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:47.280 She's doing really well here. 677 00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:48.840 Like she's very contained. 678 00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:51.239 She's crying, you know, she's in the moment. 679 00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:53.519 I just think he just blows every line. 680 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.619 Yeah, no, he's not very good is he? 681 00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:03.239 But, But see, again, he's minimising her experience of racism. 682 00:46:03.300 --> 00:46:05.760 He didn't leave because you told him to. 683 00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:10.860 And she just very quietly says, you know, you don't know that, and we don't know that. 684 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:12.599 Can I say though? 685 00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:16.440 Tom Paris, yeah, it's a bit of a prick throughout this entire run. 686 00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:18.480 And everyone could have says about it. 687 00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:20.460 Like, oh, yeah, that's Paris. 688 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:28.320 No one ever really deals with it, you know, he's always saying ridiculous platitudes like this and he's always behaving in a really bad way. 689 00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:34.980 Well, I mean, I think I think some of that's just sort of incompetence when it comes to the scripting and stuff. 690 00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:39.420 Like, I don't think they intended for him to be, you know, like terrible. 691 00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.280 Jerry said they think he was likeable. 692 00:46:41.340 --> 00:46:48.059 I hope one day that, you know, we have 2 or 3 or 4 children and then you should just put in brackets that I can be incredibly racist to as well. 693 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:53.639 I am not your father, and you are not, you are not your mother. 694 00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:56.280 I mean, this is incredibly obvious, isn't it? 695 00:46:56.460 --> 00:47:04.440 Yeah, and this is another thing too, where in a way, you know, we all have a big cry and then the problem solved. 696 00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:15.480 Even though, even though he's been dismissing, and he has said, you know, tell me, you know, I want I want to hear about it, but he's basically been dismissing. 697 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.280 Can I just mention, this is the best scene. 698 00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:24.840 The doctor's voice log there because he basically does that, you know, Dr. Crusher has repaired us all with our usual skill. 699 00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:27.300 They love doing that, don't they, before the last scene. 700 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.059 Everything back to normal is what he's basically saying. 701 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.039 But look at this. 702 00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.820 Think about how he was regarded in series one. 703 00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:38.579 She has come in to apologise to him. 704 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:42.480 Even though she's treated him like a piece of hardware. 705 00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:46.320 You know, and 2 beats here. 706 00:47:46.380 --> 00:47:52.500 One is when he feels the baby kicking and it's both their their shared reaction. 707 00:47:52.559 --> 00:48:01.619 And 2 is when she asked him to be the godfather and his reaction to it, i.e. my god, look how far we've come, you know? 708 00:48:02.099 --> 00:48:14.219 I really like where he says, oh, well, you were hormonal Klingon pregnancy and she says, well, that no, that's not an excuse, but thank you for letting me off the hook. 709 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.760 And it is that sort of thing where he's just willing to let it go. 710 00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:19.559 He wants to forgive her. 711 00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:21.360 But that's beautiful. 712 00:48:21.420 --> 00:48:25.619 And I love how he asks, may I, before he goes in to touch the kicking baby. 713 00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:28.079 I'm going keep asking this question. 714 00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:30.900 If they can do it here with nuance. 715 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:31.980 What about the rest of the episode? 716 00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:33.539 Yeah, yeah. 717 00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.960 Is it just because these are really good actors? 718 00:48:37.019 --> 00:48:38.460 I think so. 719 00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:52.559 Like, I think in context, this is super interesting, because in a show that's been about racism, him being a hologram is also given kind of racial characteristics as well, because he's dehumanised. 720 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.559 Like a 2nd glass citizen for those first. 721 00:48:55.619 --> 00:49:03.179 And and we get this stuff in series 7 that you talked about before where, you know, it's about liberating his people who are oppressed. 722 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:08.760 And so having him being treated as fully human. 723 00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:10.860 And just his delight. 724 00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:12.119 Oh my goodness. 725 00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:18.360 Like, I think that Picardo's smile is just ridiculous. 726 00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:25.559 I mean, there was this, you know, they ruined it with that, with an ugly CGI baby again. 727 00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:32.460 Oh, poor old Roxanne is having to, and and we go out on a laugh, like that's super embarrassing. 728 00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:33.360 Oh, look. 729 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:38.039 I think Robert Mercado's embarrassed by having to do that little joke at the end of the episode. 730 00:49:38.099 --> 00:49:39.599 They can't see what the effect looks like. 731 00:49:39.659 --> 00:49:42.059 So they're probably thinking it is very juice. 732 00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:43.440 They're like, oh, it's Nick. 733 00:49:44.099 --> 00:49:46.679 They probably watched the episode and went, oh my god. 734 00:49:46.739 --> 00:49:51.480 Yeah, no, neither actor is particularly comfortable in that final shot. 735 00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:54.300 But I will say about this. 736 00:49:54.360 --> 00:50:03.000 Um, episode and that is, it is unusual for Voyager to tell like a character story like this. 737 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.300 And this is like an 11th hour character story as well. 738 00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:10.619 And kind of the last stab to do anything with Tom and Belana. 739 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:18.300 Whilst it isn't like the best of Trek's run, I do appreciate the effort because this could have been another space anomaly episode, you know? 740 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:19.739 Yeah. 741 00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:30.960 But like I said, I think this is a show that's designed around space anomalies and so I think that it flops to some degree when it tries to do character drama because that's not what it's set up to do. 742 00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:45.059 All right, so we are on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, ready to choose our next episode. 743 00:50:45.179 --> 00:50:47.280 Joe, which series are we choosing from? 744 00:50:47.340 --> 00:50:49.019 All of them. 745 00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:54.539 Now, we have very much been on a 90s trek run. 746 00:50:54.599 --> 00:51:00.539 We've done a next generation at Deep Space 9 and a Voyager, and that, that's kind of our era, isn't it, really? 747 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:01.019 Yeah. 748 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:10.500 But now we think it's time to take the risk, including the animated series, including enterprise, including some of those new ones that you love. 749 00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:13.260 Yeah, to go across the board. 750 00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:14.519 So roll the dice. 751 00:51:14.579 --> 00:51:15.780 All right. 752 00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:17.400 Here goes. pressing the button. 753 00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:26.340 Uh, so it's Star Trek, uh, the next generation. 754 00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:27.239 Okay. 755 00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:28.019 It's... 756 00:51:28.019 --> 00:51:31.260 Oh, it's lower decks, lower deck. 757 00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:31.920 So good. 758 00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:33.599 Now roll it again. 759 00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:35.880 Come on, we can't do another next gen this early. 760 00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:37.260 What if it's a lower decks episode? 761 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:38.579 That would be hilarious. 762 00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:42.840 Bar association. 763 00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:43.679 I watched that last week. 764 00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:44.820 Deep say Snide. 765 00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:46.019 I know, I know you did. 766 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:49.440 Can we try and get, can we just try and escape 90s track, please? 767 00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:51.000 I could turn it off. 768 00:51:51.059 --> 00:51:53.099 Yeah, take off the 90s. 769 00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:55.139 We'll take off the 90s. 770 00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:55.500 Okay. 771 00:51:55.559 --> 00:52:01.139 So we are leaving Enterprise on, so we're not going to do a series that we've done before. fair. 772 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:01.739 Okay. 773 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:02.820 All right, let's try that. 774 00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:06.239 I have no idea what this is. 775 00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:09.539 Oh, it's Star Trek Discovery. 776 00:52:09.659 --> 00:52:10.320 Oh, okay. 777 00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:10.980 Okay. 778 00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:13.980 Series 3, episode four. 779 00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:19.079 I said from the most recent episode, the most recent series. 780 00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.000 Is that the true one for discovery? 781 00:52:21.059 --> 00:52:22.619 I can't remember. 782 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.139 I don't do episode titles. 783 00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:25.559 What do you think? 784 00:52:25.619 --> 00:52:30.119 Well, I no, I'd love to lean into discovery. just to tell you what I'm terrible about it. 785 00:52:30.179 --> 00:52:30.840 No, I'm joking. 786 00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:32.159 I mean, to tell you what's great about it. 787 00:52:32.340 --> 00:52:35.460 I'm really looking forward to doing this All right. 788 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:44.280 I can't remember which one this is because I haven't, I'm not very good on episode titles of Discovery or indeed anything except Star Trek, the Next Generation. 789 00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:50.280 I seem to remember the 1st 5 episodes of Series 3 of Discovery were rather good. 790 00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:52.920 So I think we've got goody here, whichever one it is. 791 00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:54.420 Yeah, yeah. 792 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:55.320 Forget me not. 793 00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:56.760 It could be Adira and Gray. 794 00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:58.980 I think it's I think it is that one. 795 00:52:59.039 --> 00:52:59.400 Yeah. 796 00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:00.239 The true one. 797 00:53:00.300 --> 00:53:07.500 And it will be our 1st jump into a heavily serialised show as an individual episode, which will be interesting. 798 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:12.780 Series 3 is a little bit less serialised than series one and two, I think. 799 00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:14.219 All right, okay. 800 00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:16.019 In that case, it's forget me not. 801 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.119 Star Trek Discoveries, forget me not. 802 00:53:18.179 --> 00:53:20.400 Series three, episode four. 803 00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:24.420 So I guess you could watch that before our next release. 804 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:39.960 Let's do it You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. 805 00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:46.559 You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. 806 00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:51.719 Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lab. 807 00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:57.780 This episode was recorded on the 6th of October 2021 and released on the 19th of November. 808 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:01.559 We'll see you next time for discoveries forget me not.