WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:36:33

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, tonight, we're watching one of my favourite Star Trek series, and that is Discovery series one, Fight Me.

3
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And we are watching what is, I think, probably its most popular episode, which is episode seven, Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad.

4
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They have very stupid titles in series one of Discovery, I think.

5
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I think they have very stupid tiles throughout the entirety of discovery, if I'm honest, but this is one of the more more idiotic ones, sort of baroque ones.

6
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Yeah, yeah.

7
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Well, you know, original Trek has things like Plato's stepchildren and who mourns for ad and eyes and all sorts of sort of misguided, you know, attempts at being poet.

8
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Oh, there's nothing more pretentious than a DS9 title.

9
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Wrong's darker than death or night.

10
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In the pale moonlight, you know.

11
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There's some of them in Latin.

12
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Well, I'm not even going now.

13
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I'm not even gonna try and say that.

14
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And this season does also have a Latin title.

15
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One of the episodes in series one of Discovery has a Latin title as well.

16
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This is a very strange series because this is series one of a show that is basically positioning itself as the new original Star Trek for the 21st century.

17
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And so it set in the same time period.

18
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It updates it with a new look.

19
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It doesn't attempt to be consistent with the original look of the original show, and it is kind of the flagship show for a kind of new type of Star Trek.

20
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And something weird happens.

21
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It all goes horribly wrong at some and we end up somewhere quite different from where we started.

22
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Can you believe that there were people out there complaining that this didn't have the aesthetic of the original series.

23
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Like, can you imagine if they brought out Strange New Worlds?

24
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Oh, was it last week?

25
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And, you know, and it was cardboard sets and a bunch of flashing lights, you know.

26
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I think we've talked about this before, but there is a sort of weird tendency in Star Trek fandom for some people to appreciate a new Star Trek episode or series only in as much as it is consistent.

27
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It tells us more about the world that is lovingly chronicled in the pages of memory alpha and not on whether it's necessarily an entertaining series.

28
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And one of the things right out of the gate, that 1st two-part episode of Star Trek discovery really is sort of frontloaded with incredible visuals.

29
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You know, you've got Michael doing that spacewalk and landing on that sort of Klingon artefact and all sorts of weird things that, you know, you don't quite know what they are.

30
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You know which one got me when I was like, boy, boy, boy, we're not in TNG land anymore.

31
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Was that shot of her in the prison with the force field?

32
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Yeah, in space.

33
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I thought that was incredible.

34
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I was like, wow, this is cinematically good.

35
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And it's special effects that enable a type of peril that wouldn't have been possible in a previous iteration of Star Trek, because you just couldn't have realised it.

36
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And so they were using it not just for spectacle, but to open up the storytelling possibilities.

37
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And I think that's part of the magic of this show.

38
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And for me as well, discovery is very political.

39
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And one of the things I've noticed is with the live action Star Trek.

40
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So we've had Discovery, Picard, and now Strange New Worlds.

41
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Each one is more overtly, more obviously political than the last.

42
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But it starts here.

43
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And I've said before, series one is about America at war.

44
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We're now at war with the Klingons.

45
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Can we stick to our principles and it comes from an America who had been in the middle of one of the longest wars of its history in Afghanistan after 9-11.

46
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And then uh, it ends in this sort of weird hallucinatory Trump universe uh, with, with, with cousin Michelle as the emperor.

47
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And all the while.

48
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That was where I saw this whole series, season just fell off the rails.

49
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I mean, it was, no, don't get me wrong.

50
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I much preferred it because it was more fun and comic book and colourful and ridiculous and action-packed, but I was like, hang on a minute.

51
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This is not where this season was heading.

52
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And we know that as well because Brian Fuller, who was the creator of Discovery, an absolute plan.

53
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I think it was supposed to be an anthology series, wasn't it?

54
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Every year was going to be like a different time period. ironically enough, that's practically where we headed eventually, wasn't it?

55
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But like, at this point in the season, well, this episode we're talking about today, he was still involved, heavily involved, you know?

56
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I think it was somewhere in the middle of the season where I still don't know why.

57
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I've never really read up on it, why he was summarily executed from Star Trek because he'd had a long, like a long journey.

58
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He was involved in Star Trek Voyager quite a bit, an enterprise.

59
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He'd owned his stripes.

60
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So I'm not sure what happened there.

61
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But this episode is deliberately standalone, isn't it?

62
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And I took a peek at memory alpha and it was the only episode, really, that they specifically wrote to be a standalone Star Trek episode where they said, let's just have fun and a crazy sort of colourful adventure that has character stuff running through it.

63
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Yeah.

64
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This feels very DS9 to me, this episode, actually, do you know?

65
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It's that sort of the arcs are there.

66
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Yeah, it's kind of doing its own thing.

67
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And I think that's why I like this episode very much indeed.

68
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Because you know me.

69
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I did not season one of Discovery did not go down well with me as well.

70
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It was pushing against everything I recognised Star Trek to B. And I kind of acknowledge now that's not a bad thing and I think it clawed back from some of those excesses.

71
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You think that's a bad thing.

72
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I think that's a good thing.

73
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Yeah, we've talked about the fact that I think series 2 is the series one apology tour where they kind of set it all down.

74
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

75
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That's right.

76
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And Captain Pike will forbid them from swearing on the bridge and all of that sort of stuff.

77
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And I, you know, look, I think it has things to say for it, but, you know, series one is about, is about America after 911 and series 2 is about space anomalies.

78
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And let's be fair, series 3 and 4 are also about space anomalies.

79
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The politics is back at least in series 3 and 4 because you're in a post-Trump isolationist world where no one trusts one another and you know, all of those issues that then arise in Picard and kind of arise in Strange New Worlds, from what I've seen of it.

80
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You know, those political issues are all back, which is partly why I'm here.

81
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Um, can you please, what is the title of this episode again?

82
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It's such a mouthful.

83
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It's magic to make the sanest man go mad.

84
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Oh, a loaded bollocks.

85
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Anyway, this episode, I'll just refer it as this episode was, you know, we just talked about the incredible visuals in Discovery season one.

86
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This was a money saver, and I read that in memory after today as well.

87
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It was just like, we've got a set. we got to do a bottle show basically.

88
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Yeah, yeah.

89
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Because we are we are splashing the cash a little bit.

90
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But it means that it's kind of tight, they go with a premise, which is, you know, they know they can do a time loop. you know, Trent's done it before.

91
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Every genre show has done a time loop episode.

92
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But it means as well, we're in like a tight location.

93
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So we're focussing on the characters in an, I would say, in an unusual way at this point, and I really love the character work in this, and that's what surprised me going back to it.

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I like none of these characters when I watch this 1st season.

95
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But actually, I was watching this and there was lovely moments for Tilly.

96
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There's a great story for Burnham in this.

97
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Who is such a different character these days. completely different.

98
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Like she's she's dropped all of that Vulcan kind of robotic performance and now she's giving her much more warm and natural.

99
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And, you know, she's been through stuff and we kind of get why.

100
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But she's in a very different place here to where she was.

101
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We'll talk about that.

102
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Yeah.

103
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So do you think we should go in?

104
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Yeah, I'm ready.

105
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:07.440
All right.

106
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I will count us in five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

107
00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:21.059
So we're previously on Star Trek Discovery.

108
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Gosh, that ship looks beautiful.

109
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How many episodes in are we at this point?

110
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This is episode seven.

111
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Oh, okay.

112
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Okay.

113
00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:30.899
But they're short seasons, aren't they?

114
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So this is what, 2 thirds through the 1st season?

115
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It's about halfway through.

116
00:09:35.580 --> 00:09:38.879
The 1st season's a bit longer, I think, than they originally anticipated.

117
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Generally speaking, these days, the series, uh, you know, the news shows like Picard and Strange New Worlds, a 10 episode series, but this is, um, this tends to come in at 13.

118
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But this is quite a long season, I think.

119
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His ash.

120
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So we're getting the backstory for Ash, who is very, very beautiful.

121
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Klingon prison.

122
00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:03.539
Yep.

123
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Here we go.

124
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I wonder if that could have any meaning in the future.

125
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Could do.

126
00:10:09.059 --> 00:10:12.960
So again, the credits are super different as well.

127
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It's really funny, like Michael's performance is completely different.

128
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They redo the credits every year and the cast keeps changing.

129
00:10:21.779 --> 00:10:27.179
Yeah, I noticed that as well because the robotic character on the bridge.

130
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I remember the episode where she departs.

131
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Yeah, she's in this as well.

132
00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:37.200
And all of the characters that get a bit more focussed now, like Detma and that.

133
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There's, there's, there's, um, uh, Reese is at the party and it took me a 2nd to recognise him.

134
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The those characters are absolute scenery in series one.

135
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And I think that that was always the intention.

136
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The intention was that we would get a Star Trek series where the main characters weren't just coextensive with the bridge crew, that we would have characters who...

137
00:11:06.179 --> 00:11:08.580
I don't think it's as planned as much as that, though.

138
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They were like, okay, come series 4 with these characters are going to have a lot.

139
00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:14.519
No, no, they were absolutely not planning that.

140
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There was a point where this was completely in flux because of the mad conflict that was going on behind the scenes.

141
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I think there was a lot of scrabbling around and let's just get this made.

142
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:31.740
I think so, but I think that he's, it was always their intention to be different from a Star Trek series.

143
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Most Star Trek series have just a group of main characters who are the bridge crew.

144
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Yeah, but and they're completely defined.

145
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All those 90s stories, they're completely defined by the end of the 1st or 2 part, you know, the pilot.

146
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Whereas with this, we don't even reach the ship until episode four.

147
00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:49.259
Is it 3 or four?

148
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I can't remember.

149
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Yeah, yeah.

150
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So great.

151
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Tilly.

152
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I actually think this is one of the things that I like least about Discovery, which is these long speech.

153
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I think we make fun of them in...

154
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:18.059
Yeah, it's the speeches where they're talking about their feelings and it's over, you know, lots of montages of characters, you know, going, giving each other moon eyes.

155
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That was pretty funny with Stamets coming in and, you know, Stamets has sort of established a sort of grumpy arsehole earlier on.

156
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And now he's like taking a lot of weed and he's like super relaxed because he's taken the, he's got the darting.

157
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It wasn't until this episode, but I liked him at all.

158
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Before this.

159
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I just got one arrogant shit.

160
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He's supposed to be.

161
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And I think it's better.

162
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You know, just the warmth in series 3 and 4 of discovery in particular, among all these characters is so enjoyable, but it's a kind of nice idea.

163
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And I think they probably do it in Star Trek, the next generation to try and have just a little low-level conflict.

164
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All right, here is the best party in Star Trek.

165
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:04.860
I disagree.

166
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:06.000
There's beer pong.

167
00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.399
Actually, I think it's, there's Reese, is that Reese?

168
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:10.860
Yeah, it is, but she's kissing him.

169
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I'm afraid.

170
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:12.659
I'm sorry.

171
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:23.700
I still, I maintain the best party in Star Trek is Jazz Sea's hen party, where she has a naked man dancing and singing.

172
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She slaps her mother-in-law around the face.

173
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.320
She gets pissed and ends up in bed with Morn.

174
00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:30.360
That is the best party in Star Trek.

175
00:13:30.419 --> 00:13:37.980
But I actually mean, this is actually the one that looks like an actual party that you might go to, not a space party of some kind.

176
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They haven't done anything like this since, have they?

177
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No.

178
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.100
But we haven't seen anything like this since this.

179
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I really like it.

180
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And, and, you know, like, for me, like, I'm a 53 year old man.

181
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:59.820
I think I would only probably last half an hour at this party and then I'd want to go home to bed or something or, you know, telling you, I'd be pisses are far flirting with all the men.

182
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I'm telling you.

183
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Hip hop.

184
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Oh, and this is so fun.

185
00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:08.879
The thing about Tilly going through a musician face.

186
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Like she normally face soldiers.

187
00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.059
And I think at some point, is it ash starts?

188
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.519
Yeah, it's Ash giving this patriotic speech.

189
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:22.259
And her reaction is, I think my soldier thing is kicking back in.

190
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Oh, there's Demer.

191
00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:27.059
I just saw De wrote the poem.

192
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:30.600
Yeah, yeah, that was there, but Reese was there before playing Beer Pong.

193
00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:33.299
Yeah, there she was.

194
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This party took 4 days.

195
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They were having this party for 4 bloody days behind the scenes.

196
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Look at that.

197
00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:46.080
Ash is so attractive, holy crap.

198
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And he's so pretty.

199
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Her taste in men is incredible.

200
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I'm telling you.

201
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It gets even better later on, don't you?

202
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:53.220
Yeah, yeah.

203
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.240
Book is attractive.

204
00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:55.740
But I had never really noticed that.

205
00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:57.179
They're so not incredibly tall he is.

206
00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:09.600
That they, well, I mean, I do want to talk about the twist coming up that he's in fact a Klingon and all the nonsense that occurred there because I just, I think it makes a bit of a mockery at some of this.

207
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.299
Well, except what happens later on?

208
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:21.960
Except that what happens later on, like we discovered that Ashley's still a real person, despite what happens, you know, that he isn't just a surgically altered Klingon.

209
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:26.159
And we've had surgically altered people all along in Star Trek.

210
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So that is a thing that was always possible here at sort of a building.

211
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:30.779
Has he come good at the end?

212
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Nothing to remember.

213
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:34.019
He comes good and he's a good he's a good bloke.

214
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:37.259
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. instrumental in the finale.

215
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.700
Is it this finale or series two?

216
00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.360
He's all the way through series 2, but he doesn't go with her to the future.

217
00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:44.580
But he nearly does, I think.

218
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.500
And they kind of break up and things, but I just think he's just super pretty.

219
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.120
Oh, doesn't he end up?

220
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.740
He actually ends up with that.

221
00:15:52.799 --> 00:16:01.980
Oh, man, I used to know her name, the Klingon woman, who was Vox kind of girlfriend who becomes a pretty cool character.

222
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:02.820
I know who you mean.

223
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:03.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

224
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:05.340
So he ends up with her.

225
00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:09.840
Oh, look, Stammets and I think this is a lovely couple, obviously.

226
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:10.799
Yeah.

227
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.720
Are they both game real life?

228
00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:13.200
Yes.

229
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:13.740
Yes.

230
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:14.279
Yep.

231
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:14.700
Okay.

232
00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:15.120
Yeah.

233
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.919
I think that would have been a couple, right?

234
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:17.399
No.

235
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:18.899
Yeah.

236
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.279
I think we hear their backstory in this, don't we?

237
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:24.480
We find out how they met.

238
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:25.320
Yeah.

239
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:25.980
Yeah.

240
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:35.039
And that's actually great that in this time loop thing we have time for, um, stammets to just narrate that to burn them.

241
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:40.620
And it's just a straight up, gives me telling the story of how we met, and I really, really like it.

242
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:45.000
Oh, look, and he really liked about...

243
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:46.620
Jason Isaacs.

244
00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:48.360
Oh, he's amazing.

245
00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:49.440
He's amazing.

246
00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:53.879
I kind of I kind of feel like he was wasted later on as well, unfortunately.

247
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:57.840
But I think he'd only ever signed on, hadn't he to do a little bit.

248
00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:59.460
I think so.

249
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:01.620
Look, I think he's really really good.

250
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:08.160
And I do like the idea that the captain of Discovery is kind of like being the, you know, professor.

251
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.980
What is it, the stupid Harry Potter thing?

252
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.599
Defence against the dark arts?

253
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:15.420
You know, it's a different person, each book, because something happens to them.

254
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.579
And that sort of happened here.

255
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.920
You know, we've gone from...

256
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.299
We say, calm it down now, though.

257
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:21.660
Jesus.

258
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.240
They can't keep up with a captain for 5 minutes.

259
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:25.920
I think we've settled on Michael.

260
00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:28.680
Oh, yeah, of course we are, yeah.

261
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:30.720
Yeah, of course she's the main character.

262
00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:31.140
Yeah.

263
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:44.279
You said to me, you said to me with discovery that it was great that you didn't have the, yeah, the main character as the captain of the ship, but they've completely have gone there now, haven't they?

264
00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:45.000
No, no.

265
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:49.980
Well, because they've turned it into a standard Star Trek show and now that they've done that, the only way.

266
00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:55.019
CGI, that CGI creature there, you know, looks a bit dated now, doesn't it?

267
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:55.619
A few years ago.

268
00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:05.519
There's a little bit, although I think there are some shots where, where, see, that's obviously CGI, um, But it's not bad.

269
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.700
We are never those people, are we, sir?

270
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:10.980
That close-up was critical.

271
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.180
Special effects.

272
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.579
I love this outfit.

273
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.099
Like, so, yeah, it's very strange.

274
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.299
I didn't know.

275
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.440
I don't know, but it's got a sort of a... isn it?

276
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:23.460
It's the helmet.

277
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.700
Like, it's like the rabbit in Donny Darko.

278
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:31.319
You know, like, I think it's got that sort of vibe.

279
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:32.160
There is something.

280
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:44.220
There's something very, very, very original Star Trek about the whole conception of the character of Harry Maud. and he's absolutely defeated in a completely classic series Star Trek way in this episode.

281
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:46.440
Oh boy, are we going to talk about that?

282
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:51.480
But, um, I think, um, I think what's the actor's name?

283
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:52.680
Rain Wilson.

284
00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:56.519
He's given an incredibly good film. a really, really good actor.

285
00:18:56.579 --> 00:18:58.500
He is charming and charismatic.

286
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:02.279
I cut above anybody in this cast at this point.

287
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.920
Your eyes are just drawn to him whenever he's on the screen.

288
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.640
Well, I think he's probably the biggest name in the show at this point.

289
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:12.539
Um, okay, you know, Jason Isaac.

290
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.220
Going back to Jason Isaacs very quickly.

291
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:28.619
Yeah, because that to me is the representation of how this is not doing what Star Trek would normally do because the captain is very often the most reassuring character in the show, you know, brings the team together, sacrinoble sacrifices, blah, blah, blah.

292
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.380
Well, he's not introduced until, what, episode four?

293
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:37.259
And immediately, some years off and he's in shadowy rooms with weapons and he's doing terrible things.

294
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.200
I really, really liked that.

295
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:46.680
But the twist that he was just from some alternative universe.

296
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:47.940
Oh, come on.

297
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:54.720
Well, you know, but I actually really like, oh, they've just, they're about to explode.

298
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.559
Yeah, this is the cause and effect of the time loop, isn't it?

299
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.059
You know, the ship's going to blow up.

300
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:12.599
So I really like Cause and Effect, and one of the reasons that I liked it, originally the reason that I liked it was it, each time loop coincided with an act of the show.

301
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:14.880
So it went from ad break to ad break.

302
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:26.339
And so every ad breaker, you have a cliffhanger at the ad break of this sort of TV, not this kind because it's streaming, but, you know, like, and so every ad break, the enterprise would pop.

303
00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.900
And then we'd come back from the ad breaker, we'd be in the card playing cards.

304
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:41.220
But the way this is told, this can be told more economically, because it's being told to an audience of people who know how these time loops were.

305
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:51.000
Yeah, we just wouldn't have the patients to do it in the same way now, where we're watching the same sequence of events over and over again with just little different details or people discovering things slowly.

306
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:52.259
Have a look at this.

307
00:20:52.319 --> 00:21:02.400
See, we stop in this, in this thing before the lift, and we expect Stammets to run into them at that point.

308
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.660
And the camera's almost waiting for Stammets to run into shot, but...

309
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:07.740
It's kind of looking around.

310
00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:08.279
Did you see it?

311
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.279
Yeah, it's kind of like where it starts.

312
00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:13.200
Yeah, and now he's turned up.

313
00:21:13.259 --> 00:21:19.859
And now they just sort of tell us the bits that are different and then we get to realise how many loops they've been.

314
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.400
It's not just the loops that we're seeing, but it's been happening over and over again.

315
00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:27.359
You know what's interesting?

316
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:35.339
The biggest interesting difference between this and cause and effect is, is that obviously they're aware of the time loop throughout all of this and they're constantly trying to find a solution.

317
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:41.039
Whereas in course of effect, it's the whole narrative is about them discovering they're in a time loop, essentially.

318
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:45.000
Well, it's only, it's only, yeah, that's true.

319
00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:49.500
Whereas here you've just got Paul who knows because Paul is experiencing it.

320
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:54.839
But like you said, you have got a, you've got a cuts in the chase now because we know all the cliches.

321
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:58.200
Here's what I like about Lorke here.

322
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.500
So he doesn't give a shit about the Gormaganda.

323
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.839
He's not interested.

324
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.619
I don't care.

325
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:05.460
I don't care.

326
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:12.900
You know, he gets told that they have to transport it to a, you know, a zoo or something like that because it's really rare.

327
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:19.019
And we discover they're really rare in the 31st century or whatever, where they end up in discovering.

328
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:25.500
Yeah, so he doesn't give a shit and he says, just get on, you know, just get it out of my thing.

329
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:27.539
And then later on he calls it a fish.

330
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:31.079
And like, Saru, has to explain to him.

331
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:35.220
Well, it's not a shooter. whale isn't a fish, you know.

332
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:39.359
And it's like, just I would have liked him to stick around, you know.

333
00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:40.859
Yeah, I think his character.

334
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.559
Imagine him and Georgia on it all the time.

335
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:46.500
My God. would be amazing.

336
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:52.019
And the very few scenes they get together in the Mirror Universe are absolute gold.

337
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.339
I'm taking it.

338
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:56.519
Oh he's tall.

339
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:09.359
But what is what is different between cause effects in this as well is that they use the time loop as a way of doing a character exploration of Burnham and the fact that she's never been in love?

340
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:18.240
And the fact that she doesn't really know how to communicate with men and I think it's really lovely how she kind of learns as each loop goes along.

341
00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:24.599
And then she starts using that as a way of bringing Ash closer to her.

342
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.460
So so they can bring down mud.

343
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:27.420
It's very clever.

344
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:28.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

345
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:28.859
Yeah.

346
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:30.180
I like that too.

347
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.180
And that is sort of a standard thing of time loop things, isn't it?

348
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.259
Because you get a do over.

349
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.680
And so you kind of fuck up the 1st time and you get to do it properly.

350
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:51.420
And it's usually, you know, you think about, um, Groundhog Day, you know, where you eventually get to get it right and there's often a romantic kind of thing, uh, that... you know with these timeloop episodes.

351
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.599
I do wish like in this, Harry Mudd is like, okay, we're in a time loop.

352
00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:55.680
I can behave appallingly.

353
00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:57.059
I can go on the bridge and shoot people.

354
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.019
I can blow up the ship.

355
00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:58.680
I can do whatever.

356
00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.720
But it's almost like the villains that do those things.

357
00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:04.259
I want a time move episode where one of the heroes is like, oh, this is my chance.

358
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.099
I can behave.

359
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:10.319
I can literally do whatever I want But, 0 no, actually, Richard Dean Anderson does it in the Stargate one.

360
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:13.920
He grabs hold of Samantha Carter and snogs her in front of the starcage. you remember?

361
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.980
I've never watched Stargate or even heard of it.

362
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:17.460
Oh, okay.

363
00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:26.220
But doesn't Michael Kiss Ash in this and then that gets erased?

364
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:28.859
They never remember it, but their 1st kiss is in the loop.

365
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:37.859
And I think it's partly because she's aware she's in a time loop that she's willing to hazard it, you know, uh, He's having so much fun now, isn't he?

366
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:40.259
He's literally loving every 2nd of this.

367
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.000
But is it simply the fact, because, like, he comes across as being this old, just smart bloke.

368
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:49.200
I don't know, I think he's got some arts, but it's simply because he's done this loop so many times.

369
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:50.039
He knows the ship.

370
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:51.180
He knows the people.

371
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:52.619
He knows how they're going to react.

372
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:57.059
And that's why that's how they can characterise him as brainy as he is.

373
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.799
Yeah, well, the same thing.

374
00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:17.759
Like, I think that's made explicit because doesn't Ash talk about how he brags about defrauding a bank or robbing a bank on Beta Zed, um, and Ash says he must have had the time loop there and then just learned how to do it because he couldn't have done it otherwise.

375
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:20.220
So has he created the time loop?

376
00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:22.500
Does he have a device that creates time loops?

377
00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:30.000
Yeah, so he has a time crystal, which is a thing.

378
00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.579
That's so fucking TOS, is untrue.

379
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.200
Yep, it's in a real trick.

380
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.059
And it will come back later.

381
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.059
It's super important in series two.

382
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:44.700
Because I think isn't it the time crystal that enables Pike to see his future?

383
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.579
So there's a time crystal in that episode.

384
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:49.200
That sequence was extraordinary.

385
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:53.819
I'm hoping they're leaning into that a bit in Strange New Worlds, you know.

386
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.259
I have nothing to say.

387
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:58.680
I've seen Strangely Worlds, but you haven't.

388
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:06.480
Oh, could I ask a question about this spore drive and target grades and all this bizarre stuff that occurs down in engineering and discovery?

389
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:08.940
Is that still going on now?

390
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:10.859
Is it still what we're using?

391
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.900
Yeah, we still use the spore drive.

392
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.220
We don't have the tardigrade.

393
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:28.079
At this point, he has tardigrade DNA and a sort of implant that, um, so he used to have to be kind of get a needle in him, but instead he's got this implant that, um, that Carl was made for him.

394
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:33.779
Now they use programmable matter and he just sticks his hand in and book can do it as well because he's...

395
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.460
We're pushing away from all this experiment.

396
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.759
We're going a bit more normal Star Trek than are we with the technology these days.

397
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:42.660
Well, I mean, I kind of think it makes sort of sense.

398
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:48.119
I thought that woman had her shirt off for a 2nd but she doesn't...

399
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:51.779
He's doing that bizarre thing again, Nathan. you know, with stomachs. doing that.

400
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:58.500
Bizarre season one of all tricks where they have people behaving out of character before we even know the characters, you know?

401
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:58.980
Yeah.

402
00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:04.980
Although, I think I think that we establish pretty quickly that Stamets is a bit of an asshole.

403
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:06.539
And by this point...

404
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:07.259
Yeah, yeah.

405
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:08.400
So we've had...

406
00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:08.880
Do you know what?

407
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:20.160
It means, it means you get scenes like that, wonderful scene with him and Tilly, where I think it's season 2 where they sing the David Bowie song and it completely is some virtual expectation and it's so lovely, you know.

408
00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:22.619
Yeah, I think that's adorable.

409
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.220
There is a scene early on too, where both of them say this is so fucking cool.

410
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.660
Like Tilly and him, I think, and they kind of bond over geeking out of it.

411
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.079
Besides, there it is. there's Saru. technically it's not a fish, sir.

412
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:36.960
So funny.

413
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:39.180
Yeah, do watch your nest, doesn't he?

414
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.079
It doesn't get much to do.

415
00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:42.119
No, um...

416
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.079
It's nice looking pretty.

417
00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:47.279
I think Jason Isaacs is pretty, you know.

418
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:48.420
Oh, yeah, I do too.

419
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.079
I think he's totally handsome. he's sort of super sweaty in this show as well.

420
00:27:53.220 --> 00:28:01.140
I like the fact as well, although it's nice that mud like steals from his superstore of evil weapons, doesn't he?

421
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.259
Yeah, gets that fabulous purple ball.

422
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:15.420
Well, because there's that gaunt skeleton in his, in his, um, weird kind of armoury thing that he has.

423
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:18.359
Yeah.

424
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:26.640
So, So I like, I think the thing I like about Lorker here is that he is just openly the opposite of a Star Trek captain.

425
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:28.920
He's not interested in the Gormagan.

426
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:30.420
He's not interested in an explanation.

427
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:38.339
He deliberately calls it a fish to antagonise Saru probably, or because he doesn't give a shit because he's not interested in knowledge and science and things.

428
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:43.859
Do you think they were deliberately pushing against all of these trek cliches?

429
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:44.940
like they were doing it on purpose?

430
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:50.819
Well, I think to see if this franchise could come and be mattered into a very different shape.

431
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:59.940
I think that I think that they have those 2 big character mysteries which are where does Lawker come from?

432
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:00.839
Like what's his deal?

433
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:02.279
Why is he such an asshole?

434
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:17.640
And who is Ash, you know, and they don't quite ever do that again, and their, you know, the suspense around it, I think, is actually a lot better than the payoff, and that's not from the case with television. yeah.

435
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:21.359
And it is, that was fun to speculate, you know, as we were watching it.

436
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:29.220
I think that I knew that Vok was Ash, um, I remember at the time there was a lot of people talking about that.

437
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.140
Yeah, there was a lot of people talking like saying, oh, you know, he's been an acting on prison a long time.

438
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.000
He's got the same voice.

439
00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:39.119
He's got that sort of tenor voice in both roles.

440
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.960
Is it, is it, the same?

441
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:46.079
Is it the character we met in the 1st series, the Klingon we met in like in the 1st scene?

442
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:46.619
Is it him?

443
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:50.220
The white Klingon, the one who, yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:51.960
I mean, it is clever.

445
00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:52.680
It is clever.

446
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:53.460
It's the same actor.

447
00:29:53.519 --> 00:30:02.880
Again, it's like, it's like, um, they're kind of now we're getting to a point where we're on the ship and we're building a crew and then they're literally going to wrench one after another.

448
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:10.740
I'm like, oh, this was very sweet where she said, look on Paul's face because we don't hear it until he says it back to her in the next loop.

449
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:15.480
She whispers it into his ear and he just looks heartbroken.

450
00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.759
I'm so sorry.

451
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.140
She said something like, I've never kissed a boy or something like that.

452
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.059
But what she actually says is.

453
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:25.440
Yeah, right, it is heartbreaking.

454
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:27.240
Yeah, she'd never been in love.

455
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:44.460
And that's why the party is the perfect place to open this because you've got Tilly slightly pissed, absolutely, you know, being a huge hornbag and talking about how much she wants to have sex with the musicians and you've got Michael who's never been in a relationship.

456
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:47.339
Look at the gaunt skeleton in the background.

457
00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:50.099
Fantastic, isn't it?

458
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.000
Look at it.

459
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.059
Not the herogen and their skeletons.

460
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:58.500
That's amazing This scene too, where he just repeatedly kills life.

461
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.980
This is the best scene in the episode, I think, and the way this is shot.

462
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:09.539
So we're constantly behind him as he goes into the room and kills Jason Isaac's character over and over again.

463
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.640
It is so brilliantly directed.

464
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:13.079
There's no cart.

465
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:14.640
We're constantly dropping frames.

466
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:17.819
The camera's changing directions all the time.

467
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:18.900
He kills him in different ways.

468
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.299
Bella's name, he does the music.

469
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.980
Jeff Russell.

470
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:35.039
So Jeff Russell says, in a quote on Marie Alpha, that he went back and watched the TOS episodes and he was determined to bring in Mud's theme from the original series into this moment.

471
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:35.759
Yeah.

472
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:39.720
But it's purely comedic and massively over the top.

473
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:43.980
And he said he tried and he tried and he's like, no, he's walking around killing people.

474
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:46.680
I cannot put this like...

475
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:47.880
He's playing over it.

476
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:50.279
So he just created his own theme.

477
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:51.779
It's like a hot theme.

478
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:52.980
Yeah, yeah.

479
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:55.380
And this is the best thing about time loops, isn't it?

480
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.579
You can murder whatever you want.

481
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:01.380
You can blow up. you can do all those things that you can't normally do. which is fab.

482
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.220
Oh my god.

483
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.299
Tilly is such a good time, girl, and she just spotted a hard time.

484
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:07.079
Go over there.

485
00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:07.920
Go away.

486
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.579
This is a whole man.

487
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.339
Nathan, I'll be there in a heartbeat. telling you.

488
00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:18.119
That's the great thing about Tilly too.

489
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:29.220
It is 90s Star Trek is populated by space people and they behave differently from normal people and they talk in much longer and more boring sentences than normal people.

490
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:36.240
And I think this version of Star Trek is determined for them not to be space people.

491
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:41.880
Now, you know, occasionally they fail and there's long speeches of a kind that no one would actually ever say.

492
00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:46.740
But there is a kind of more relaxed way that they speak in a more naturalistic way. just more naturalistic.

493
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:47.160
Yeah.

494
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:48.480
But I don't know.

495
00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.119
I question whether this is actually set in the thing or just aren't my cars.

496
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:52.619
Yeah, that's what you want.

497
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:53.279
Yeah.

498
00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:54.299
Well, not really.

499
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:55.920
No, I want to be transported into the future.

500
00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:58.440
Well, look, you're looking for different things there.

501
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:00.359
That's it.

502
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:10.380
I want them to be people that I can relate to, oh, look, Detma's really getting into it there. like that when you end up just snugging someone on the couch.

503
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.519
Oh, they're the best.

504
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.539
I don't know.

505
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:17.700
You wake up the next morning with a load of telephone numbers on your arm and loads of regrets.

506
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:21.900
Oh, look at him.

507
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:25.380
Look at Stabitz watching her being really awkward with him.

508
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.539
Yeah, yeah, bless.

509
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:28.980
Look at this woman.

510
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:30.119
Get off in the corridor.

511
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:31.619
I know, she's really tall.

512
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:35.279
Now, look, back in TOS, remember, we're in the corridor and someone's stroking the wall.

513
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:37.920
Skip forward to discovery and they're snogging against the wall.

514
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:38.640
They're snogging.

515
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:39.240
Yeah, yeah.

516
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:41.519
Oh, did you see that man's arse?

517
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.960
He walked by. very nice.

518
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.079
The party's really got you going, I think.

519
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:47.700
I was so sorry.

520
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:49.500
Don't take much.

521
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:50.220
Just one drink.

522
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:56.579
I think there's something very interesting about...

523
00:33:56.579 --> 00:33:59.339
What's the fellow's name who plays Stomach?

524
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.400
Um, Yeah, that guy.

525
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:04.019
Yeah, Anthony Rapp.

526
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:04.619
Him.

527
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.920
I think there's something very, very interesting about his performance.

528
00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:13.139
There's like an intensity to it. you know, that I find really interesting to watch.

529
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:17.820
And yeah, he's capable being extremely gentle and sensitive at times as well.

530
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.199
Yeah, yeah.

531
00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:20.159
I think he's really good.

532
00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:31.019
I think I also think, you know, one of the things that I like is we get the discovery theme as a kind of as a slow dance here over this scene.

533
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.480
So the music is the discovery theme.

534
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:36.480
And I love the line.

535
00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:37.980
Would you let me lead?

536
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:45.599
Like, she's so in control and so wound up and stuff like that that he says that.

537
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:47.639
I think it's these scenes, yeah.

538
00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:50.639
These seems here, um, the dancing scene.

539
00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.099
This is kind of what I needed earlier.

540
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:53.820
Yeah.

541
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:58.079
Yeah, there's not enough time. of them of them bonding.

542
00:34:58.139 --> 00:34:58.860
Yeah.

543
00:34:58.920 --> 00:34:59.340
Yeah.

544
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:00.780
Normally.

545
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:01.619
And do you know what as well?

546
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.360
Do you know something else I noticed about this episode?

547
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:05.519
It's just having a lot of fun, you know?

548
00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:08.880
And I don't think there was a great deal of fun in season one either.

549
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:09.960
There's a lot of action.

550
00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:12.059
There's a lot of emotion.

551
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:13.980
You know, there's a lot of shock twists.

552
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:18.239
There's a lot of drama, but it doesn't really relax often enough.

553
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:21.179
I think it does more now, sometimes too much.

554
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:39.239
I think, you know, like, I think there's, there's very Star Treky things in this, in a way that people kind of underestimate that this is a bit sillier and a bit campier than uh, some people would die.

555
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.860
The ending is so great.

556
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.019
Look how tall it is.

557
00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:48.239
Now she, no, wait, but she's getting close to him now, isn't she?

558
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.820
So she can talk to you about the time loops and all that.

559
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:55.320
But the way that shot, we see every detail of how that embrace forms itself.

560
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:57.960
Oh, look, there's some ladies dancing with each other.

561
00:35:58.019 --> 00:36:00.719
But, you know, we see his arms around.

562
00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:02.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

563
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:04.619
In the lighting in this scene as well.

564
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:05.280
Yeah.

565
00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:06.780
It's getting pierced.

566
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:10.019
Still is always pierced, I think, Joe. Honestly.

567
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:15.840
Yeah, so she's getting close to him to get have the conversation about Maud.

568
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.900
It's so, you know, Michael, like this.

569
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:29.099
Do you know what they were all doing behind the scenes when they were filming 4 days of this laborious party scene?

570
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.239
all playing ping-pong, apparently.

571
00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:32.519
Oh, that a ping-pong ball set up in the corner.

572
00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:37.800
Oh, well, they had peeping on the set for the for the beer pong that they were playing earlier.

573
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:41.219
I think it's beer pong only with saurian brandy is my theory.

574
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:43.679
Or something like that.

575
00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:46.860
Oh, I love the way you know the names that drinks.

576
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.800
Maybe it's Tronia.

577
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.800
People with Tronia.

578
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:55.800
Did you know this episode was up for a Hugo?

579
00:36:55.860 --> 00:37:04.019
Yeah, I mean, that actually does happen sort of, you know, there aren't that many genre of shows around the place.

580
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.179
Doctor Who frequently goes up for a Hugo.

581
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:08.460
I'm not surprised because I think this is very good.

582
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:19.019
And the thing that's good about it is, I think, what you identified earlier, the fact that it's not just a time.

583
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:20.760
Oh, they're kissing for the 1st time.

584
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.440
Oh, asshole.

585
00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:23.340
Isn't that hard?

586
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:24.239
It's really hot.

587
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:25.199
Jesus.

588
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:27.300
Not like, not like...

589
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:28.500
Not like those chase kisses.

590
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.920
Remember that kiss between Tashiar and the fella in Yeste's Enterprise?

591
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:38.159
Well, I was more thinking about, you know, Chief O'Brien and...

592
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.179
Oh, God, no.

593
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:43.320
Although, when, when, when Cisco Snob Cassidy, that was pretty hard as well.

594
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:44.340
Yeah, yeah.

595
00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:49.559
Are we really rating the snogs of Star Trek here?

596
00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:50.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

597
00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:56.699
That's one of the reasons why Kurtzman Trek is superior 90s track is the sexiness.

598
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:57.599
The hotness.

599
00:37:57.659 --> 00:38:01.139
The scenes between her and uh, is it book, booker?

600
00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:01.440
book?

601
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:02.039
Yeah, book.

602
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:04.079
It's like softcore porn.

603
00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:05.159
I'm getting you.

604
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:07.079
Yeah, no, that is smouldering.

605
00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:11.159
Right, here we go.

606
00:38:11.219 --> 00:38:12.539
Another loop.

607
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:13.980
He's an awesome on the shift.

608
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:23.699
Oh, yeah, so this is this is happening over Ash explaining the thing.

609
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:24.480
Isn't that it?

610
00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:29.519
So Ash is explaining about the betazoid prison that he managed to.

611
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:31.019
And then we see him do it.

612
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.079
We see him avoiding people because he knows everyone's movements.

613
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.539
He knows where they're coming. and so on.

614
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:37.079
Yeah.

615
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:45.000
That's really well done, actually, because having them just stand there at a party, talk about that at length we've been sort of ridiculous.

616
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.300
And this is, it's a little bit more like a heist as well.

617
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:52.440
Remember, he's trying to pull off a heist and so we get a description of the sort of things he can do.

618
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.440
It's parked with character moments though, isn't it?

619
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:59.280
It's like I said, it's basically everything I'm looking for in this show.

620
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:02.460
I was just thinking about causing an effect again for a 2nd.

621
00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:05.639
The tone of the 2 episodes is so different.

622
00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:09.360
This is genuinely just having a blast with the concept, is it?

623
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:15.059
Whereas there's a lot of like disquiet and suspense and like...

624
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:16.679
It's doing the fish line again.

625
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:19.139
Well, we're going to hear it many times.

626
00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:19.980
We're in a loop.

627
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:29.820
Yeah, the it's very staid and very stagey and it is very clever and it takes advantage of the medium, you know, show with ad breaks.

628
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.480
So to have the time loop coincide with the ad breaks, I think is genius.

629
00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:38.280
And they only break it in the last or the 2nd last iteration, which spans to...

630
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:43.980
Well, and because with that, the loop is pretty much the same every time and the suspenses, we know where we're getting to if we don't get out of it.

631
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.059
This ship's going to blow up.

632
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:49.019
Whereas this plays about, it's different every single time, isn't it?

633
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:49.739
Lots of...

634
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:52.440
Well, I think diversions.

635
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:59.340
Storytelling, you know, we come from a world that's full of universe, it's full of multiverses now.

636
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:10.500
There's no one solid core narrative, you know, and so the storytelling here is much sloppier and much more makeshift, I think.

637
00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:10.860
I like it.

638
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:12.420
Lanky.

639
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:17.159
Well, I always felt like they literally just sat in a room and went, right, what fun things can we do with this loop?

640
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:18.539
Ideas, writer's room.

641
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:19.079
Let's go.

642
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:20.699
What is that robot all about?

643
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.119
You know.

644
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:22.260
I never quite figured it out.

645
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:23.940
Oh, there's an episode about her.

646
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.139
Her final episode.

647
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:28.920
Well, isn't that the one where she leaves where she finally gets some development, you know?

648
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:33.119
Well, because she's scenery in this season and absolutely designed to be that.

649
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:37.079
And so she ends up just turning into a character in the final episode.

650
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:38.639
We don't even know what.

651
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:39.480
No, it's Marvel...

652
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.980
The animated series where we were like with Arax and Umres.

653
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:46.739
We were like, oh, they've got these fabulous alien creatures.

654
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.260
We got to a point now in live action trek where we can pull it off.

655
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:53.519
Oh, wait a sec, we're going to kill Ash instead of Bryce.

656
00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:54.900
Is that what's happening?

657
00:40:55.019 --> 00:40:57.780
So what's that little purple ball?

658
00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:58.380
What does it do?

659
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:01.079
Oh, it just sort of kills you in a really super painful way?

660
00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:05.039
and just leaves your face behind so you can do one last facial expression before you?

661
00:41:05.099 --> 00:41:06.960
Oh, man, she has to watch it.

662
00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:07.440
Yeah.

663
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.900
Oh, but they're looking at each other.

664
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.380
Don't die.

665
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:18.780
Oh, please, you know if Paris is going to depart on discovery, even if they're dying, they're going to look at each other longingly.

666
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.679
That's what they show us.

667
00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:28.500
But I like that because now she has to, she can't solve it this timeline.

668
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:31.619
She can't solve it in this loop, but she can't.

669
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:34.500
So surely she's in her stomach has to tell her.

670
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.280
Oh, she does know.

671
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:36.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

672
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:37.800
Stamitz told her ages ago.

673
00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:38.940
So she knows we're in a loop.

674
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:42.119
She's known that for ages. and no, hang on.

675
00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:45.719
There's logical inconsistency there then, because this has been looping again and again and again.

676
00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:46.980
So why does she...

677
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:47.820
She keeps knowing.

678
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:48.539
She, I don't know.

679
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.059
No, because the narrative needs her to know at this.

680
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:52.500
So now she knows going forward.

681
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.199
Now she knows that he has to restart the loop.

682
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.860
She can't win this time because Ash is dead and she doesn't want him dead.

683
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.139
Is this the bit where she kills her, where she commits suicide?

684
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:02.219
That's fabulous love that bit.

685
00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:05.760
Yeah, that's coming. that's coming when in Locker's office.

686
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:16.679
I do want to say, like, whilst this is a really fun episode, there is a lot of like death in this episode.

687
00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:19.320
And it does have a bit of a sting to it.

688
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:34.019
And I know we're not there yet, but that's why the ending felt so tonally jarring to me because we go from all this murder and explosions and love and maturity into some weird TOS pantomime at the last 5 minutes.

689
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:35.880
I was like, oh, what the fuck is this?

690
00:42:35.940 --> 00:42:38.519
Well, it's got to explain how he turns into.

691
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:39.780
It's his origin story.

692
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:41.099
He's much more evil.

693
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:47.039
And then he turns into an absurd fat panto villain.

694
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:54.000
It went from being the smartest guy in the room to being hitched to this woman for being dragged off and I'm like, what?

695
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:56.219
Well, that's Stellar.

696
00:42:56.280 --> 00:43:04.019
We've never seen Stella in real life in original Star Trek, but we do see all her Androids.

697
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:09.780
I like it, because she goes through him, I think the party line's like, oh, Harry, you are a naughty boy.

698
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.340
He certainly is.

699
00:43:16.619 --> 00:43:18.360
So hang on.

700
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:20.280
Have we lost the Tardigrade at this point?

701
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:23.400
It was on the ship for a little bit, wasn't it?

702
00:43:23.460 --> 00:43:35.159
And that was actually really good because it was the, can we torture an animal in order to make our ship run and our decision was no, we can't do that.

703
00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:39.840
And the animal does kill Tory v.

704
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.599
Cylon from Battlestar Galactica.

705
00:43:42.659 --> 00:43:43.139
Remember her?

706
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:43.860
She's the uh.

707
00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:46.800
Oh, wasn't she a dreadful character?

708
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:49.860
Yeah, she literally will just come in the room. threaten people.

709
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:54.719
Oh, yeah, and I was like, this cannot be a Starfleet officer, surely.

710
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.000
She, I mean, she comes back, I think.

711
00:43:57.059 --> 00:43:59.039
She may still be alive in the mirror universe.

712
00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:02.340
We certainly do see her again at some point, but she is...

713
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:06.000
It was incredibly unsourtful, which is a shame because I'll tell you what, the actress was amazing.

714
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.440
Really bad Star Galactica.

715
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:08.940
The scene where she murdered.

716
00:44:09.059 --> 00:44:10.019
What was her name?

717
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:15.480
took the baby off her and then opened the airlock and blew around her face. was incredible.

718
00:44:15.539 --> 00:44:16.619
So good.

719
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:19.380
Anyway, we're not on talking about Bounstalka Max.

720
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.179
Really good show.

721
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:29.219
You know, I wouldn't mind a roguish character like Harry Mud, you know, joining the ensemble of this.

722
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.460
They can all, they can be a bit serious at types, this car, you know.

723
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:38.400
What book was that, but then they gave book the backstory of having had his total planet destroyed and he stopped being quite so fun.

724
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:40.679
Well, they did do it, didn't they?

725
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:45.900
Because then they had Giorgio come along and she was our morally ambiguous space bitch.

726
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.420
She wasn't quite ambiguous, was she?

727
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:49.860
She was just kind of really.

728
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:50.519
Yeah, sorry.

729
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:51.480
Just evil.

730
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.460
She came good more times than last week.

731
00:44:56.519 --> 00:45:01.199
Yeah, she was, she had, she was a genocidal dictator with a heart of gold.

732
00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:03.420
Losing her.

733
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:05.340
It was a sacrifice to the show, wasn't it?

734
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:05.940
Losing her.

735
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:06.900
Well, it was her.

736
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.619
She did very well in that film.

737
00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:13.860
Everything everywhere all at once, which I thought was magnificent.

738
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.559
I just saw a poster for that today. looks incredible.

739
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:21.599
It's really good and there's a lot of Michelle in it, a lot of cousin Michelle, and she's supposed...

740
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:26.099
But you know, when she also looked marvellous, was when she came out wearing that gold costume in the Mirror Universe.

741
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.820
I started smacking everyone down with martial arts and lasers.

742
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:32.039
I was like, oh, my God, this can't get any better.

743
00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:33.900
It's so good.

744
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:34.800
And there we go.

745
00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:36.539
She's eating the thing.

746
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:37.980
Just eating the thing.

747
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.840
It's really not agreeing with her, right?

748
00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:41.579
I think it's dark matter or something, isn't it?

749
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.739
Yeah, yeah, or it's just something spacing.

750
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:45.420
Yeah, yes, that's it.

751
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:46.559
It has that.

752
00:45:46.619 --> 00:45:49.679
A great purple effect where you basically solve.

753
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:54.179
But now he has to run it through one more time because he wants to sell her to the Klingons.

754
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:59.400
I have seen this cliche done before they, where people are like, okay, so in order to outfox you.

755
00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:00.659
Well, Doctor Who just did it, didn't it?

756
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:06.059
And even the garlic, we need to kill ourselves on this, on this loop. and then win the next time.

757
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.239
What's nice as well?

758
00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:10.800
The parties take on a different tone now.

759
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.019
There's like a desperate tones of the party, isn't it?

760
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:14.219
Because I can't get away from here.

761
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.139
Like, sorry, I can't flirt with you right now.

762
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:17.099
I've gotta save the ship.

763
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:32.820
And of course, the reason that we don't see her repeatedly being told by Stamets that this is a time loop is that as the audience, we've seen that once, and so they don't need to screen that bit again, we just take it as red.

764
00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.579
Are we assuming this is happening every time now and then?

765
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:40.019
Yeah, but we don't even think about it because this isn't a real time loop.

766
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.300
This is a TV show TV episode.

767
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:47.699
And so if she's told at one point in the episode, we just assume that she knows it all the way through.

768
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:49.619
And I think that that's the right approach.

769
00:46:49.739 --> 00:47:03.360
I'll tell you why the ending was so jarring, is because I think up until that point, everything that narratively is going on, it's quite clever, you know, and I thought, oh my god, they're going to think a way out of this situation in such a brilliant way.

770
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:06.300
And then now, come on, you're off to get hitched.

771
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.860
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

772
00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:12.900
I think it is literally you're off to go into original.

773
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:21.179
TOS is coming to take you away to where you belong, rather than our gritty reboot, which is still kind of can.

774
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.340
So just isn't too aware, is it?

775
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.099
That's why it feels so weird Yeah, yeah.

776
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.559
So it's about as far from TOS as you can get.

777
00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:39.960
But I mean, the preposterous outfit Stella is wearing a sort of 60 style frock that makes it look as if she's walked out of an episode of Star Trek, the original series.

778
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:41.340
It's so great.

779
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:42.119
It's so stupid.

780
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:47.880
They should have done some really flat direction and everything, just gone the whole Hulk, you know?

781
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:52.139
So the Buran is another mystery isn't it?

782
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:53.159
Or sort of.

783
00:47:53.219 --> 00:47:54.360
Oh my goodness.

784
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:55.139
What is it?

785
00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:00.300
It was his previous ship, which only he survived and everything else got destroyed.

786
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:00.900
Wow.

787
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.460
We know what happened to those people.

788
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:04.260
Yeah, he probably ate them.

789
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:12.300
He doesn't reveal his colours, though, doesn't it, until...

790
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:13.380
Until they're in the mirror universe.

791
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.360
Oh, he forces them into it, doesn't it?

792
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:17.280
right. pushes them into it.

793
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.500
But not they don't know about it.

794
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:23.219
Like it is just one more jump and then they end up in the mirror universe.

795
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:26.340
And that's why, you're going to fight me on this, right?

796
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:27.059
So come up me.

797
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:37.320
Um, when we come out of the mirror universe about all that fun and the ending just felt so anticlimactic because we haven't been here for like 4 episodes and it was like, well, that's it.

798
00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:39.420
We going to wrap up the war for the end, season two.

799
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:49.679
But I do like how they wrap up the war and they wrap up the war by just saying, no, we're not going to blow up, secretly blow up the Klingon home world and kill all these people.

800
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:50.940
And...

801
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.820
Is it the end of this season where they go like, I'm Starfleet.

802
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:54.900
I'm Starfleet.

803
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:56.639
Oh, kind of.

804
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:57.000
Shit.

805
00:48:57.059 --> 00:49:00.900
They give a big speech and they get awards for being Starfleet. and I think that that's exactly it.

806
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:07.679
Not seen anything as agonising as that scene in DS9 where they all go, ninos before the baseball match. awesome.

807
00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:12.659
I do think, you know what?

808
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:13.739
I was thinking about this the other day.

809
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.380
I do think this show was custom built for you.

810
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:17.099
You know?

811
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:29.760
I think it's, I think it's like beautifully made television and I think you really appreciate television that kind of pushes the boat out visually.

812
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:36.059
I think it, um, it focusses on some like real emotion as well.

813
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:42.780
And I know like in Doctor Who and things like that, that you like emotional arcs and I pushes it a lot, but you know.

814
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:46.260
Um, I think it does complex storytelling.

815
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.880
I think it has political illusions.

816
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:52.079
I think it just has a lot of things that you love all witched in there together.

817
00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:54.900
I can absolutely see why you adore this.

818
00:49:54.960 --> 00:50:03.360
I think maybe the other reason I adore it is that it's a bit of a problem and there are times when it's not successful and that's...

819
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.880
No, that's why you like this season because it's fucking contrary.

820
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:08.039
I think this season's genuinely good.

821
00:50:08.099 --> 00:50:10.079
I think season 2 is a bit of a mess.

822
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:15.239
I think the jump into the future was just like super weird, but it ends up being quite good.

823
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.719
And I think... think is the best season today?

824
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:22.320
I like the season a lot.

825
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:24.179
This is a sentimental favourite.

826
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.420
I think 4 is incredibly strong.

827
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.639
And the reason...

828
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.039
Yeah, so it ends.

829
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:40.380
So, you know, there's a sort of mid-season break for a couple of weeks or whatever and then there's a run of episodes, maybe sort of 5 or 6 or 7 episodes, like the half the season.

830
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:57.780
And they absolutely nail having an ongoing arc, a single ongoing mission, and doing something different each week in a satisfying way, and they absolutely get it perfect and the other thing.

831
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:04.800
The other thing they do, and this is super weird for Star Trek, is some proper science fiction.

832
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:06.599
It's so clever.

833
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:08.460
It's really smart.

834
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.199
I'm a huge fan.

835
00:51:10.260 --> 00:51:11.760
Yeah, I like a lot.

836
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:12.539
Is it one episode?

837
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:13.380
Oh, hang on.

838
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:15.059
Sorry to interrupt you, but here we go.

839
00:51:15.179 --> 00:51:15.719
Stella.

840
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:20.159
She literally looks like the woman that themed on the bridge in Spock's brain, didn't she?

841
00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:22.260
The purple.

842
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.480
Oh, Harry.

843
00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:31.260
See, we see him pushed around, don't we?

844
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.599
In original series?

845
00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:35.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

846
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:40.500
But but he also then he creates like female automatons and things like that.

847
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:42.900
It's a bit weird and sexist.

848
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:47.280
But is it Android Stella who yells at him at the end of months women or something?

849
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:51.300
I have to confess that I have seen them, but I can't remember them very well.

850
00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:56.039
I don't know, but the real seller is fabulous and we should have seen her again.

851
00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:58.739
Well, I don't think we've ever seen the real Stella.

852
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.679
I think all we've seen is Android duplicate Stella.

853
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:04.380
His ship is called the Stellar.

854
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:08.400
I think we hear about Stella, but we never actually see that.

855
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:14.159
I mean, he does it all, but turn to the camera painfully without wack, wack, kind of musical sting, doesn't it?

856
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:14.880
Women.

857
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:16.619
Women be crazy.

858
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:20.099
Yeah, this man's dressed all in leather.

859
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:20.940
I know.

860
00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:21.960
Basically a whip.

861
00:52:22.019 --> 00:52:22.559
Is it leather?

862
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:23.880
Oh, it is...

863
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:25.260
You are gonna be whipped.

864
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:27.900
He's wearing a tie.

865
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:31.260
We are laughing.

866
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:32.099
It's fun.

867
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:32.820
Don't get me wrong.

868
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:36.000
It's fun, but it isn't part of the episode we've been watching.

869
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:42.840
And look, all the discovery characters look a bit out of place.

870
00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:45.420
With all this, I'm like, oh.

871
00:52:45.539 --> 00:52:47.400
Yeah, these are super weird.

872
00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:50.400
So good.

873
00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:52.019
Oh my God.

874
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:54.960
Did you see the look she gave Burnham when she was beaming out?

875
00:52:55.019 --> 00:52:58.320
This sort of coquettish look, like, what?

876
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:02.880
Oh, it was a great ship as well.

877
00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:04.139
Oh yeah, yeah.

878
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:05.099
Oh, here we go.

879
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:06.239
Right, let's see what she's learned.

880
00:53:06.539 --> 00:53:09.599
Oh, are they going to keep?

881
00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:10.619
Come on, ask him out.

882
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:11.579
Ask him out.

883
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:15.000
Yeah, because Stamitz really wants them to get together because he's so tall.

884
00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:22.619
There's nothing more annoying than progress occurring in a high concept episode that's wiped out with a reset.

885
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:24.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

886
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:24.719
Yeah.

887
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:25.800
But they know about it.

888
00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:26.219
Is it?

889
00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:28.679
It's not wiped out because Stamitz told them.

890
00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:29.400
Yeah.

891
00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:31.980
Well, plus they end up having whole sex anyway.

892
00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:33.239
Yeah, yeah.

893
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.920
I'm a really good dad.

894
00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:42.420
Oh, that's so fun.

895
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.679
Holy crap.

896
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:44.699
Easy, Burnham.

897
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:50.880
Like, they aren't together at the end, but they've moved closer to being together.

898
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.860
There's a seed for the future.

899
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.780
And they understand each other a bit better and...

900
00:53:57.780 --> 00:53:58.860
But as well, do you know what?

901
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:05.880
Honestly, I think this is the 1st time I warmed to Burnham, that confession about never being in love and I was like, that's heartbreaking, you know.

902
00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:18.599
You know, it, I think, I don't really think that, like, I think they walk back this characterisation where she's sort of weird ass falcon sort of thing.

903
00:54:18.659 --> 00:54:22.920
And I think that that was the right thing to do, particularly as she becomes the captain as well.

904
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:26.639
Um, And she's nothing like this now.

905
00:54:26.699 --> 00:54:30.659
Well, you know, you say with all the revisions in series 2, in series 2.

906
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:32.219
She just cries a whole year.

907
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:33.539
I swear to God.

908
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:34.440
Yeah, that's it.

909
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:35.820
Staring off camera crying.

910
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:39.960
Yeah, because they discover that Sanequa is incredibly good at that.

911
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:43.920
And so they just write her all these emotion things that she has to do.

912
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:45.960
And then I couldn't believe.

913
00:54:46.019 --> 00:54:53.099
I think one of my favourite episodes of Discovery, and you're going to think I'm crazy is season 3, episode one.

914
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:55.079
I know you love the season two, episode one.

915
00:54:55.139 --> 00:54:59.340
But season three, episode one, where they literally cut loose from everything they've done before.

916
00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:02.099
They're setting the scene for the burn.

917
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:03.960
But her performance in that.

918
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:06.599
It's like, it's worth it.

919
00:55:06.659 --> 00:55:07.500
She's so relaxed.

920
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.920
Oh, that bit is amazingly funny.

921
00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:13.199
I'm telling you, where she trips.

922
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:16.139
Who knew she was that good at comedy, eh?

923
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:18.059
Because she's been so bloody serious before that point.

924
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:20.099
Oh, that was delightful.

925
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:22.079
That was absolutely...

926
00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:24.480
That's the sort of episode.

927
00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:34.380
I'd like to see more of in Discovery where they just take like a predictable concept and have a fucking ball with it, you know?

928
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:41.039
I think that you would like the end of series 4 because it's a definite trajectory.

929
00:55:41.099 --> 00:55:52.440
It tells a single story, but each episode has a satisfying thing in it and is about people, like about their experiences.

930
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:56.940
And it's really about Star Trek being Star Trek.

931
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:10.739
And that's one of the things that occurred to me because Strange New World started this week, sort of just a few days ago as we record this, and it has kind of taken the mantle of being Star Trek.

932
00:56:11.219 --> 00:56:12.780
Yeah.

933
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:21.599
There's no sort of heavy expectation on these other 2 established shows now to be, you know, the Star Trekiest Star Trek.

934
00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:24.599
Because it, I mean, it's in the title.

935
00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:34.619
It's from the speech in Star Trek, TOS and Star Trek, TNG, the Strange New Worlds to explore Strange New Worlds, seek out new life and new civilisations.

936
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:41.639
Discovery does that at the end of series 4 in what is a really interesting way, a really impressively interesting way.

937
00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:45.059
You put me off this, you know, watching series four.

938
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:52.139
You set me that clip of the Captain Archer Space Station with the edge of 5 music playing over it and I was like, no, I'm out.

939
00:56:52.260 --> 00:56:52.619
I'm sorry.

940
00:56:52.860 --> 00:56:54.539
So great.

941
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:56.219
I love that so much.

942
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.239
You know what?

943
00:56:57.300 --> 00:57:01.800
I'm convinced by other reviews, but obviously by your compelling argument as well.

944
00:57:01.860 --> 00:57:03.840
I will definitely put it on because you know what?

945
00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:07.380
The random eyes will only pick it soon, series 4 and I will have a clue what's going on.

946
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:08.639
Yeah, that's true.

947
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:09.599
That's true.

948
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:15.119
But this is an anomaly, isn't it, in season one.

949
00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:25.679
And I think, okay, I'm this is a subjective opinion, but I think season one is written off.

950
00:57:26.219 --> 00:57:32.519
Overall, as an ambitious failure rather than a success.

951
00:57:32.579 --> 00:57:36.059
But I think this is a success within.

952
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:40.559
Yeah, that failure. this is an episode that's far on all cylinders.

953
00:57:40.679 --> 00:58:04.619
I think that if it wasn't for series one, we wouldn't have what we have now, like it was successful on all sorts of levels, like just getting a Star Trek series produced, having it look as incredible as it does, having a mixture of kind of grittiness with sort of Star Trek goofiness and stuff, being proper Star Trek made in the 21st century.

954
00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:06.780
And I think they definitely achieved that.

955
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:23.760
And then I think what's happened is, you know, the original goal that it would be an anthology series and that every year it would, you know, you mentioned it before, that it would have a different premise and a different cast and stuff, a little bit like, say American horror story or something like that.

956
00:58:24.179 --> 00:58:34.559
I think that we're getting that and we're getting it by having a huge number of shows with reasonably short seasons that are only going to run for a number of years.

957
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:37.739
So we've got that with 30 episodes of the card.

958
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:49.260
Here is something set. you know, at the turn of the century, at the turn of the 25th century, starring an older Picard, and we get to see 3 adventures of him doing a thing.

959
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:54.360
Oh, but I don't think Discovery is only going to run...

960
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:55.860
No, like he's been renewed for five.

961
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:59.460
I think he'll probably hit 7 like the other hits, possibly more.

962
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:07.440
It's proven that it can reinvent itself successfully and be, you know, like we said, where it is now is not here.

963
00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:14.639
It's not in the same time period with hardly any of the same characters, with the same tone, with the same performances, you know.

964
00:59:14.699 --> 00:59:17.039
And yet it's still being made and still being enjoyed.

965
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.760
Yeah.

966
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:21.179
Yeah, look, I think that there'll be new series come along.

967
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:33.659
I think, you know, there will be new different Star Trek series coming that will be, you know, that won't have the nearly 200 episodes or whatever that a 90 Star Trek series has.

968
00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:37.320
It just has a smaller run of episodes and does a different thing from everything else.

969
00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:39.599
And I'm so interested by that.

970
00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:40.800
I really like it.

971
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:48.719
And while ever sort of paramount plus as business model demands that we have a new Star Trek episode every week, I'm kind of here for it.

972
00:59:48.900 --> 00:59:55.019
Well, you know what's great as well, is that because they are denser seasons.

973
00:59:55.079 --> 01:00:01.980
They're shorter and generally speaking, like a season has a narrative and things like that.

974
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:06.000
In Kurtzman Trek, we don't end up with fucking bollocks, like some Rosa.

975
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:11.400
And, you know, when they were churning out 24 episodes a year and they were like, right, 26 of these can be really good.

976
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:15.480
The other half, you know, night terrors, you know, the game.

977
01:00:15.539 --> 01:00:16.500
Oh, no, you like that one.

978
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:19.500
Sorry. move along home. you know, we'll just chat out any old shit.

979
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:20.039
They watch it.

980
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:20.940
They'll watch it, you know.

981
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:25.739
But now, there's no there's no real scope for episodes like that now, is there?

982
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:26.880
Yeah.

983
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:36.300
They're all, they're all going to be competently made and um, because kind of part of an overall story and that's just where Star Trek is now.

984
01:00:39.539 --> 01:01:08.400
Okay, it's time for us to choose next week's Star Trek episode and it's time for me to choose next week's episode, which is why he is on Untitled Star Trek project.com slash Randomiser, which has been newly updated for the new Star Trek landscape, which is that I have added Star Trek Strange New Worlds down the bottom.

985
01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:15.900
And I've left a place for eventual Star Trek, Elnor and Rios, which is something I have in development.

986
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.460
Starshow Rios, honest to God, spoilers, bark.

987
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:21.780
I still can't believe they wrote him out.

988
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:24.119
I would have offered series 3 now if I'm honest.

989
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:26.940
Yeah, it's Elanor's back, though. so it's fine.

990
01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:28.079
I told you.

991
01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:29.699
Did not say when we watched that episode.

992
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:30.420
All right?

993
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:35.400
I couldn't have taken Raffi being any more upset than she was about Rios.

994
01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:38.820
It made me happy that the writers gave for a little break at the end.

995
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:42.360
She deserved that I love Raffi and she was pretty great in that it.

996
01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:47.639
Well, Nathan, I've decided to, obviously, it's my choice this week.

997
01:01:47.699 --> 01:02:03.239
So to commemorate, you know, the expansion of the untitled Star Trek Randomiser, that I'm going to select Strange New Worlds as the series that we're going to be randomly selecting from, okay?

998
01:02:03.300 --> 01:02:04.199
Okay.

999
01:02:04.260 --> 01:02:14.400
Now, you do realise that on the website, it says that this was recorded on the 11th of May and that I will go on to say that in the credits.

1000
01:02:14.460 --> 01:02:22.800
So, what episode have you rolled on the 11th of May on the randomiser?

1001
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:31.500
Okay, so the episode selected by the randomiser is Strange New Worlds. brilliant.

1002
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:35.820
It's like the episode of Enterprise we did only plural.

1003
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:37.619
Amazing.

1004
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:38.940
Amazing.

1005
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:42.119
Silly kid.

1006
01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:46.860
I can only imagine this is going to be a bit better than that, though.

1007
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:47.880
Yeah.

1008
01:02:47.940 --> 01:03:11.099
You know, I actually said that I was planning on pulling this trick so that we could watch the 1st episode of Prodigy because we did actually record an episode of this podcast after only one episode of Prodigy and Ed. But this is kind of a bit of a big deal because it is the new live action Star Trek spun off of series 2 of Discovery.

1009
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:14.039
And I think it's really interesting.

1010
01:03:14.099 --> 01:03:15.179
You haven't seen it yet, have you?

1011
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:16.679
I haven't.

1012
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:17.039
No.

1013
01:03:17.099 --> 01:03:26.159
And frankly, I'm pleased that you've asked us to pull off this trick because it's, I think I confessed it on Mike the other day that, you know, like, because I like to feel important.

1014
01:03:26.219 --> 01:03:31.380
I refuse to watch things alongside other people and they're waiting until they, that's our old hat and then I watch it.

1015
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:37.860
This is going to force me to watch the 1st episode of Strange New Worlds, of which I am I'm gonna make a few predictions.

1016
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:39.239
Okay, all right.

1017
01:03:39.300 --> 01:03:42.719
I think it is going to be visually arresting.

1018
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:46.079
I think the music is going to be extraordinary.

1019
01:03:46.139 --> 01:03:48.840
Anson Williams, is that it?

1020
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:50.760
Who answered Williams's Potsey from?

1021
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:51.780
How embarrassing.

1022
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:52.559
What's his name?

1023
01:03:52.619 --> 01:04:00.420
No, Hanson Williams was Potsey from Happy Days, but he did go on to direct a fair amount of Star Trek, actually.

1024
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.699
That's why his name came up.

1025
01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:04.500
Yeah, so it's Mount.

1026
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:07.019
I think Anson Mount is going to be...

1027
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:10.980
Handsome Manson is going to be charismatic and wonderful.

1028
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:19.679
And there's, from what I've seen from the publicity pictures, It's going to be a huge array of colourful and exciting alien characters.

1029
01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:20.760
Yes.

1030
01:04:20.820 --> 01:04:22.980
Those are all fair predictions.

1031
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:27.179
And I also think as well it's going to feel very TOS.

1032
01:04:34.619 --> 01:04:40.199
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1033
01:04:40.260 --> 01:04:46.260
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1034
01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:51.539
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and our theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1035
01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:57.659
This episode was recorded on the 11th of May 2022 and released on the 20th of May.

1036
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:02.099
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, Strange New Worlds, Strange New Worlds.