WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:02:44

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, tonight, we're watching one of my favourite Star Trek series

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and that is Discovery series one, Fight Me.

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And we are watching what is, I think, probably its most popular

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episode, which is episode seven, Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go

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Mad.

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They have very stupid titles in series one of Discovery, I think.

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I think they have very stupid tiles throughout the entirety of

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discovery, if I'm honest, but this is one of the more more idiotic

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ones, sort of baroque ones.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, you know, original Trek has things like Plato's stepchildren

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and who mourns for ad and eyes and all sorts of sort of misguided

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you know, attempts at being poet.

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Oh, there's nothing more pretentious than a DS9 title.

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Wrong's darker than death or night.

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In the pale moonlight, you know.

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There's some of them in Latin.

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Well, I'm not even going now.

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I'm not even gonna try and say that.

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And this season does also have a Latin title.

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One of the episodes in series one of Discovery has a Latin title

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as well.

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This is a very strange series because this is series one of a show

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that is basically positioning itself as the new original Star Trek

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for the 21st century.

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And so it set in the same time period.

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It updates it with a new look.

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It doesn't attempt to be consistent with the original look of the

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original show, and it is kind of the flagship show for a kind of

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new type of Star Trek.

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And something weird happens.

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It all goes horribly wrong at some and we end up somewhere quite

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different from where we started.

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Can you believe that there were people out there complaining that

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this didn't have the aesthetic of the original series.

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Like, can you imagine if they brought out Strange New Worlds?

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Oh, was it last week?

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And, you know, and it was cardboard sets and a bunch of flashing

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lights, you know.

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I think we've talked about this before, but there is a sort of

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weird tendency in Star Trek fandom for some people to appreciate a

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new Star Trek episode or series only in as much as it is

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consistent.

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It tells us more about the world that is lovingly chronicled in

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the pages of memory alpha and not on whether it's necessarily an

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entertaining series.

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And one of the things right out of the gate, that 1st two-part

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episode of Star Trek discovery really is sort of frontloaded with

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incredible visuals.

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You know, you've got Michael doing that spacewalk and landing on

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that sort of Klingon artefact and all sorts of weird things that

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you know, you don't quite know what they are.

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You know which one got me when I was like, boy, boy, boy, we're

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not in TNG land anymore.

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Was that shot of her in the prison with the force field?

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Yeah, in space.

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I thought that was incredible.

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I was like, wow, this is cinematically good.

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And it's special effects that enable a type of peril that wouldn't

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have been possible in a previous iteration of Star Trek, because

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you just couldn't have realised it.

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And so they were using it not just for spectacle, but to open up

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the storytelling possibilities.

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And I think that's part of the magic of this show.

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And for me as well, discovery is very political.

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And one of the things I've noticed is with the live action Star

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Trek.

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So we've had Discovery, Picard, and now Strange New Worlds.

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Each one is more overtly, more obviously political than the last.

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But it starts here.

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And I've said before, series one is about America at war.

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We're now at war with the Klingons.

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Can we stick to our principles and it comes from an America who

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had been in the middle of one of the longest wars of its history

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in Afghanistan after 9-11.

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And then uh, it ends in this sort of weird hallucinatory Trump

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universe uh, with, with, with cousin Michelle as the emperor.

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And all the while.

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That was where I saw this whole series, season just fell off the

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rails.

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I mean, it was, no, don't get me wrong.

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I much preferred it because it was more fun and comic book and

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colourful and ridiculous and action-packed, but I was like, hang

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on a minute.

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This is not where this season was heading.

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And we know that as well because Brian Fuller, who was the creator

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of Discovery, an absolute plan.

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I think it was supposed to be an anthology series, wasn't it?

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Every year was going to be like a different time period. ironically

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enough, that's practically where we headed eventually, wasn't it?

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But like, at this point in the season, well, this episode we're

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talking about today, he was still involved, heavily involved, you

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know?

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I think it was somewhere in the middle of the season where I still

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don't know why.

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I've never really read up on it, why he was summarily executed

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from Star Trek because he'd had a long, like a long journey.

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He was involved in Star Trek Voyager quite a bit, an enterprise.

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He'd owned his stripes.

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So I'm not sure what happened there.

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But this episode is deliberately standalone, isn't it?

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And I took a peek at memory alpha and it was the only episode

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really, that they specifically wrote to be a standalone Star Trek

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episode where they said, let's just have fun and a crazy sort of

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colourful adventure that has character stuff running through it.

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Yeah.

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This feels very DS9 to me, this episode, actually, do you know?

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It's that sort of the arcs are there.

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Yeah, it's kind of doing its own thing.

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And I think that's why I like this episode very much indeed.

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Because you know me.

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I did not season one of Discovery did not go down well with me as

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well.

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It was pushing against everything I recognised Star Trek to B. And

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I kind of acknowledge now that's not a bad thing and I think it

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clawed back from some of those excesses.

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You think that's a bad thing.

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I think that's a good thing.

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Yeah, we've talked about the fact that I think series 2 is the

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series one apology tour where they kind of set it all down.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That's right.

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And Captain Pike will forbid them from swearing on the bridge and

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all of that sort of stuff.

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And I, you know, look, I think it has things to say for it, but

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you know, series one is about, is about America after 911 and

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series 2 is about space anomalies.

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And let's be fair, series 3 and 4 are also about space anomalies.

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The politics is back at least in series 3 and 4 because you're in

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a post-Trump isolationist world where no one trusts one another

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and you know, all of those issues that then arise in Picard and

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kind of arise in Strange New Worlds, from what I've seen of it.

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You know, those political issues are all back, which is partly why

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I'm here.

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Um, can you please, what is the title of this episode again?

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It's such a mouthful.

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It's magic to make the sanest man go mad.

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Oh, a loaded bollocks.

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Anyway, this episode, I'll just refer it as this episode was, you

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know, we just talked about the incredible visuals in Discovery

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season one.

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This was a money saver, and I read that in memory after today as

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well.

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It was just like, we've got a set. we got to do a bottle show

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basically.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Because we are we are splashing the cash a little bit.

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But it means that it's kind of tight, they go with a premise, which

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is, you know, they know they can do a time loop. you know, Trent's

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done it before.

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Every genre show has done a time loop episode.

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But it means as well, we're in like a tight location.

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So we're focussing on the characters in an, I would say, in an

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unusual way at this point, and I really love the character work in

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this, and that's what surprised me going back to it.

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I like none of these characters when I watch this 1st season.

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But actually, I was watching this and there was lovely moments for

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Tilly.

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There's a great story for Burnham in this.

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Who is such a different character these days. completely

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different.

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Like she's she's dropped all of that Vulcan kind of robotic

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performance and now she's giving her much more warm and natural.

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And, you know, she's been through stuff and we kind of get why.

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But she's in a very different place here to where she was.

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We'll talk about that.

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Yeah.

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So do you think we should go in?

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Yeah, I'm ready.

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All right.

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I will count us in five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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So we're previously on Star Trek Discovery.

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Gosh, that ship looks beautiful.

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How many episodes in are we at this point?

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This is episode seven.

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Oh, okay.

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Okay.

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But they're short seasons, aren't they?

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So this is what, 2 thirds through the 1st season?

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It's about halfway through.

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The 1st season's a bit longer, I think, than they originally

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anticipated.

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Generally speaking, these days, the series, uh, you know, the news

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shows like Picard and Strange New Worlds, a 10 episode series, but

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this is, um, this tends to come in at 13.

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But this is quite a long season, I think.

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His ash.

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So we're getting the backstory for Ash, who is very, very

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beautiful.

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Klingon prison.

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Yep.

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Here we go.

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I wonder if that could have any meaning in the future.

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Could do.

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So again, the credits are super different as well.

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It's really funny, like Michael's performance is completely

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different.

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They redo the credits every year and the cast keeps changing.

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Yeah, I noticed that as well because the robotic character on the

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bridge.

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I remember the episode where she departs.

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Yeah, she's in this as well.

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And all of the characters that get a bit more focussed now, like

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Detma and that.

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There's, there's, there's, um, uh, Reese is at the party and it

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took me a 2nd to recognise him.

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The those characters are absolute scenery in series one.

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And I think that that was always the intention.

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The intention was that we would get a Star Trek series where the

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main characters weren't just coextensive with the bridge crew, that

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we would have characters who...

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I don't think it's as planned as much as that, though.

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They were like, okay, come series 4 with these characters are

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going to have a lot.

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No, no, they were absolutely not planning that.

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There was a point where this was completely in flux because of the

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mad conflict that was going on behind the scenes.

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I think there was a lot of scrabbling around and let's just get

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this made.

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I think so, but I think that he's, it was always their intention

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to be different from a Star Trek series.

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Most Star Trek series have just a group of main characters who are

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the bridge crew.

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Yeah, but and they're completely defined.

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All those 90s stories, they're completely defined by the end of

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the 1st or 2 part, you know, the pilot.

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Whereas with this, we don't even reach the ship until episode

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four.

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Is it 3 or four?

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I can't remember.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So great.

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Tilly.

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I actually think this is one of the things that I like least about

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Discovery, which is these long speech.

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I think we make fun of them in...

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Yeah, it's the speeches where they're talking about their feelings

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and it's over, you know, lots of montages of characters, you know

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going, giving each other moon eyes.

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That was pretty funny with Stamets coming in and, you know, Stamets

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has sort of established a sort of grumpy arsehole earlier on.

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And now he's like taking a lot of weed and he's like super relaxed

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because he's taken the, he's got the darting.

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It wasn't until this episode, but I liked him at all.

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Before this.

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I just got one arrogant shit.

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He's supposed to be.

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And I think it's better.

250
00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:47.759
You know, just the warmth in series 3 and 4 of discovery in

251
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:53.220
particular, among all these characters is so enjoyable, but it's a

252
00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:54.179
kind of nice idea.

253
00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:57.000
And I think they probably do it in Star Trek, the next generation

254
00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.220
to try and have just a little low-level conflict.

255
00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:02.940
All right, here is the best party in Star Trek.

256
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:04.860
I disagree.

257
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:06.000
There's beer pong.

258
00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.399
Actually, I think it's, there's Reese, is that Reese?

259
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:10.860
Yeah, it is, but she's kissing him.

260
00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:12.059
I'm afraid.

261
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:12.659
I'm sorry.

262
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:20.100
I still, I maintain the best party in Star Trek is Jazz Sea's hen

263
00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:23.700
party, where she has a naked man dancing and singing.

264
00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.460
She slaps her mother-in-law around the face.

265
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.320
She gets pissed and ends up in bed with Morn.

266
00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:30.360
That is the best party in Star Trek.

267
00:13:30.419 --> 00:13:33.059
But I actually mean, this is actually the one that looks like an

268
00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:36.779
actual party that you might go to, not a space party of some

269
00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:37.980
kind.

270
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.620
They haven't done anything like this since, have they?

271
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:41.340
No.

272
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.100
But we haven't seen anything like this since this.

273
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:45.179
I really like it.

274
00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:49.740
And, and, you know, like, for me, like, I'm a 53 year old man.

275
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.399
I think I would only probably last half an hour at this party and

276
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:57.299
then I'd want to go home to bed or something or, you know, telling

277
00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:59.820
you, I'd be pisses are far flirting with all the men.

278
00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:00.659
I'm telling you.

279
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:01.500
Hip hop.

280
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:03.840
Oh, and this is so fun.

281
00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:08.879
The thing about Tilly going through a musician face.

282
00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:11.639
Like she normally face soldiers.

283
00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.059
And I think at some point, is it ash starts?

284
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.519
Yeah, it's Ash giving this patriotic speech.

285
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:22.259
And her reaction is, I think my soldier thing is kicking back in.

286
00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:25.799
Oh, there's Demer.

287
00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:27.059
I just saw De wrote the poem.

288
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.279
Yeah, yeah, that was there, but Reese was there before playing

289
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:30.600
Beer Pong.

290
00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:33.299
Yeah, there she was.

291
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.700
This party took 4 days.

292
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.299
They were having this party for 4 bloody days behind the scenes.

293
00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:43.320
Look at that.

294
00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:46.080
Ash is so attractive, holy crap.

295
00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:47.879
And he's so pretty.

296
00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:49.559
Her taste in men is incredible.

297
00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:50.340
I'm telling you.

298
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.620
It gets even better later on, don't you?

299
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:53.220
Yeah, yeah.

300
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.240
Book is attractive.

301
00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:55.740
But I had never really noticed that.

302
00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:57.179
They're so not incredibly tall he is.

303
00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:03.299
That they, well, I mean, I do want to talk about the twist coming

304
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:06.659
up that he's in fact a Klingon and all the nonsense that occurred

305
00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:09.299
there because I just, I think it makes a bit of a mockery at some

306
00:15:09.299 --> 00:15:09.600
of this.

307
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.299
Well, except what happens later on?

308
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.179
Except that what happens later on, like we discovered that

309
00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:19.080
Ashley's still a real person, despite what happens, you know, that

310
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.960
he isn't just a surgically altered Klingon.

311
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:26.159
And we've had surgically altered people all along in Star Trek.

312
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:29.580
So that is a thing that was always possible here at sort of a

313
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:29.940
building.

314
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:30.779
Has he come good at the end?

315
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:31.559
Nothing to remember.

316
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:34.019
He comes good and he's a good he's a good bloke.

317
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:37.259
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. instrumental in the finale.

318
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.700
Is it this finale or series two?

319
00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.940
He's all the way through series 2, but he doesn't go with her to

320
00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:42.360
the future.

321
00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:44.580
But he nearly does, I think.

322
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.960
And they kind of break up and things, but I just think he's just

323
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:49.500
super pretty.

324
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.120
Oh, doesn't he end up?

325
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.740
He actually ends up with that.

326
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.379
Oh, man, I used to know her name, the Klingon woman, who was Vox

327
00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:01.980
kind of girlfriend who becomes a pretty cool character.

328
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:02.820
I know who you mean.

329
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:03.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

330
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:05.340
So he ends up with her.

331
00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:09.840
Oh, look, Stammets and I think this is a lovely couple, obviously.

332
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:10.799
Yeah.

333
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.720
Are they both game real life?

334
00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:13.200
Yes.

335
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:13.740
Yes.

336
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:14.279
Yep.

337
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:14.700
Okay.

338
00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:15.120
Yeah.

339
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.919
I think that would have been a couple, right?

340
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:17.399
No.

341
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:18.899
Yeah.

342
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.279
I think we hear their backstory in this, don't we?

343
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:24.480
We find out how they met.

344
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:25.320
Yeah.

345
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:25.980
Yeah.

346
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.399
And that's actually great that in this time loop thing we have

347
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:35.039
time for, um, stammets to just narrate that to burn them.

348
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:38.700
And it's just a straight up, gives me telling the story of how we

349
00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:40.620
met, and I really, really like it.

350
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:45.000
Oh, look, and he really liked about...

351
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:46.620
Jason Isaacs.

352
00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:48.360
Oh, he's amazing.

353
00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:49.440
He's amazing.

354
00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:53.039
I kind of I kind of feel like he was wasted later on as well

355
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:53.879
unfortunately.

356
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:57.720
But I think he'd only ever signed on, hadn't he to do a little

357
00:16:57.720 --> 00:16:57.840
bit.

358
00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:59.460
I think so.

359
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:01.620
Look, I think he's really really good.

360
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.579
And I do like the idea that the captain of Discovery is kind of

361
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.160
like being the, you know, professor.

362
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.980
What is it, the stupid Harry Potter thing?

363
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.599
Defence against the dark arts?

364
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.640
You know, it's a different person, each book, because something

365
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:15.420
happens to them.

366
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.579
And that sort of happened here.

367
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.920
You know, we've gone from...

368
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.299
We say, calm it down now, though.

369
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:21.660
Jesus.

370
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.240
They can't keep up with a captain for 5 minutes.

371
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:25.920
I think we've settled on Michael.

372
00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:28.680
Oh, yeah, of course we are, yeah.

373
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:30.720
Yeah, of course she's the main character.

374
00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:31.140
Yeah.

375
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:37.319
You said to me, you said to me with discovery that it was great

376
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.640
that you didn't have the, yeah, the main character as the captain

377
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.160
of the ship, but they've completely have gone there now, haven't

378
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:44.279
they?

379
00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:45.000
No, no.

380
00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:47.759
Well, because they've turned it into a standard Star Trek show and

381
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:49.980
now that they've done that, the only way.

382
00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:54.599
CGI, that CGI creature there, you know, looks a bit dated now

383
00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:55.019
doesn't it?

384
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:55.619
A few years ago.

385
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.099
There's a little bit, although I think there are some shots where

386
00:17:59.099 --> 00:18:05.519
where, see, that's obviously CGI, um, But it's not bad.

387
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.700
We are never those people, are we, sir?

388
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:10.980
That close-up was critical.

389
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.180
Special effects.

390
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.579
I love this outfit.

391
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.099
Like, so, yeah, it's very strange.

392
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.299
I didn't know.

393
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.440
I don't know, but it's got a sort of a... isn it?

394
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:23.460
It's the helmet.

395
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.700
Like, it's like the rabbit in Donny Darko.

396
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:31.319
You know, like, I think it's got that sort of vibe.

397
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:32.160
There is something.

398
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.759
There's something very, very, very original Star Trek about the

399
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.359
whole conception of the character of Harry Maud. and he's

400
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.380
absolutely defeated in a completely classic series Star Trek way

401
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:44.220
in this episode.

402
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:46.440
Oh boy, are we going to talk about that?

403
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:51.480
But, um, I think, um, I think what's the actor's name?

404
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:52.680
Rain Wilson.

405
00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:56.519
He's given an incredibly good film. a really, really good actor.

406
00:18:56.579 --> 00:18:58.500
He is charming and charismatic.

407
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:02.279
I cut above anybody in this cast at this point.

408
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.920
Your eyes are just drawn to him whenever he's on the screen.

409
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.279
Well, I think he's probably the biggest name in the show at this

410
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:08.640
point.

411
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:12.539
Um, okay, you know, Jason Isaac.

412
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.220
Going back to Jason Isaacs very quickly.

413
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.180
Yeah, because that to me is the representation of how this is not

414
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:21.059
doing what Star Trek would normally do because the captain is very

415
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:25.019
often the most reassuring character in the show, you know, brings

416
00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:28.619
the team together, sacrinoble sacrifices, blah, blah, blah.

417
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.380
Well, he's not introduced until, what, episode four?

418
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:35.460
And immediately, some years off and he's in shadowy rooms with

419
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:37.259
weapons and he's doing terrible things.

420
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.200
I really, really liked that.

421
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:46.680
But the twist that he was just from some alternative universe.

422
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:47.940
Oh, come on.

423
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:53.579
Well, you know, but I actually really like, oh, they've just

424
00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:54.720
they're about to explode.

425
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.559
Yeah, this is the cause and effect of the time loop, isn't it?

426
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.059
You know, the ship's going to blow up.

427
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.619
So I really like Cause and Effect, and one of the reasons that I

428
00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:09.480
liked it, originally the reason that I liked it was it, each time

429
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.599
loop coincided with an act of the show.

430
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:14.880
So it went from ad break to ad break.

431
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:18.900
And so every ad breaker, you have a cliffhanger at the ad break of

432
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:22.859
this sort of TV, not this kind because it's streaming, but, you

433
00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.339
know, like, and so every ad break, the enterprise would pop.

434
00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:29.819
And then we'd come back from the ad breaker, we'd be in the card

435
00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:30.900
playing cards.

436
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:35.400
But the way this is told, this can be told more economically

437
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.359
because it's being told to an audience of people who know how

438
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.220
these time loops were.

439
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.859
Yeah, we just wouldn't have the patients to do it in the same way

440
00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:47.579
now, where we're watching the same sequence of events over and

441
00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:49.740
over again with just little different details or people

442
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:51.000
discovering things slowly.

443
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:52.259
Have a look at this.

444
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:59.759
See, we stop in this, in this thing before the lift, and we expect

445
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.400
Stammets to run into them at that point.

446
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.400
And the camera's almost waiting for Stammets to run into shot

447
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.660
but...

448
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:07.740
It's kind of looking around.

449
00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:08.279
Did you see it?

450
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.279
Yeah, it's kind of like where it starts.

451
00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:13.200
Yeah, and now he's turned up.

452
00:21:13.259 --> 00:21:16.680
And now they just sort of tell us the bits that are different and

453
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.859
then we get to realise how many loops they've been.

454
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.619
It's not just the loops that we're seeing, but it's been happening

455
00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:23.400
over and over again.

456
00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:27.359
You know what's interesting?

457
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.519
The biggest interesting difference between this and cause and

458
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.339
effect is, is that obviously they're aware of the time loop

459
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:34.859
throughout all of this and they're constantly trying to find a

460
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:35.339
solution.

461
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.819
Whereas in course of effect, it's the whole narrative is about

462
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:41.039
them discovering they're in a time loop, essentially.

463
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:45.000
Well, it's only, it's only, yeah, that's true.

464
00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:48.059
Whereas here you've just got Paul who knows because Paul is

465
00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:49.500
experiencing it.

466
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.920
But like you said, you have got a, you've got a cuts in the chase

467
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.839
now because we know all the cliches.

468
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:58.200
Here's what I like about Lorke here.

469
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.500
So he doesn't give a shit about the Gormaganda.

470
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.839
He's not interested.

471
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.619
I don't care.

472
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:05.460
I don't care.

473
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.180
You know, he gets told that they have to transport it to a, you

474
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:12.900
know, a zoo or something like that because it's really rare.

475
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:17.039
And we discover they're really rare in the 31st century or

476
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.019
whatever, where they end up in discovering.

477
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:24.599
Yeah, so he doesn't give a shit and he says, just get on, you know

478
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:25.500
just get it out of my thing.

479
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:27.539
And then later on he calls it a fish.

480
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:31.079
And like, Saru, has to explain to him.

481
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:35.220
Well, it's not a shooter. whale isn't a fish, you know.

482
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:39.119
And it's like, just I would have liked him to stick around, you

483
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:39.359
know.

484
00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:40.859
Yeah, I think his character.

485
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.559
Imagine him and Georgia on it all the time.

486
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:46.500
My God. would be amazing.

487
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:50.819
And the very few scenes they get together in the Mirror Universe

488
00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:52.019
are absolute gold.

489
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.339
I'm taking it.

490
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:56.519
Oh he's tall.

491
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.519
But what is what is different between cause effects in this as

492
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:06.299
well is that they use the time loop as a way of doing a character

493
00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:09.059
exploration of Burnham and the fact that she's never been in

494
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:09.359
love?

495
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:12.839
And the fact that she doesn't really know how to communicate with

496
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:17.400
men and I think it's really lovely how she kind of learns as each

497
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:18.240
loop goes along.

498
00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:24.359
And then she starts using that as a way of bringing Ash closer to

499
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:24.599
her.

500
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.460
So so they can bring down mud.

501
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:27.420
It's very clever.

502
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:28.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

503
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:28.859
Yeah.

504
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:30.180
I like that too.

505
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.940
And that is sort of a standard thing of time loop things, isn't

506
00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:33.180
it?

507
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.259
Because you get a do over.

508
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.200
And so you kind of fuck up the 1st time and you get to do it

509
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:37.680
properly.

510
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.119
And it's usually, you know, you think about, um, Groundhog Day, you

511
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:46.259
know, where you eventually get to get it right and there's often a

512
00:23:46.259 --> 00:23:51.000
romantic kind of thing, uh, that... you know with these timeloop

513
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:51.420
episodes.

514
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.240
I do wish like in this, Harry Mudd is like, okay, we're in a time

515
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:54.599
loop.

516
00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:55.680
I can behave appallingly.

517
00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:57.059
I can go on the bridge and shoot people.

518
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.019
I can blow up the ship.

519
00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:58.680
I can do whatever.

520
00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.720
But it's almost like the villains that do those things.

521
00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:03.539
I want a time move episode where one of the heroes is like, oh

522
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:04.259
this is my chance.

523
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.099
I can behave.

524
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.460
I can literally do whatever I want But, 0 no, actually, Richard

525
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.319
Dean Anderson does it in the Stargate one.

526
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:12.960
He grabs hold of Samantha Carter and snogs her in front of the

527
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:13.920
starcage. you remember?

528
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.980
I've never watched Stargate or even heard of it.

529
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:17.460
Oh, okay.

530
00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:26.220
But doesn't Michael Kiss Ash in this and then that gets erased?

531
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:28.859
They never remember it, but their 1st kiss is in the loop.

532
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.680
And I think it's partly because she's aware she's in a time loop

533
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:36.779
that she's willing to hazard it, you know, uh, He's having so much

534
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:37.859
fun now, isn't he?

535
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:40.259
He's literally loving every 2nd of this.

536
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.859
But is it simply the fact, because, like, he comes across as being

537
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:45.000
this old, just smart bloke.

538
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:47.759
I don't know, I think he's got some arts, but it's simply because

539
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:49.200
he's done this loop so many times.

540
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:50.039
He knows the ship.

541
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:51.180
He knows the people.

542
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:52.619
He knows how they're going to react.

543
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:56.700
And that's why that's how they can characterise him as brainy as

544
00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:57.059
he is.

545
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.799
Yeah, well, the same thing.

546
00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:03.420
Like, I think that's made explicit because doesn't Ash talk about

547
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:09.240
how he brags about defrauding a bank or robbing a bank on Beta Zed

548
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:15.119
um, and Ash says he must have had the time loop there and then

549
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.400
just learned how to do it because he couldn't have done it

550
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:17.759
otherwise.

551
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:20.220
So has he created the time loop?

552
00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:22.500
Does he have a device that creates time loops?

553
00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:30.000
Yeah, so he has a time crystal, which is a thing.

554
00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.579
That's so fucking TOS, is untrue.

555
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.200
Yep, it's in a real trick.

556
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.059
And it will come back later.

557
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.059
It's super important in series two.

558
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:44.220
Because I think isn't it the time crystal that enables Pike to see

559
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:44.700
his future?

560
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.579
So there's a time crystal in that episode.

561
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:49.200
That sequence was extraordinary.

562
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:53.579
I'm hoping they're leaning into that a bit in Strange New Worlds

563
00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:53.819
you know.

564
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.259
I have nothing to say.

565
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:58.680
I've seen Strangely Worlds, but you haven't.

566
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:02.279
Oh, could I ask a question about this spore drive and target

567
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:05.819
grades and all this bizarre stuff that occurs down in engineering

568
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:06.480
and discovery?

569
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:08.940
Is that still going on now?

570
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:10.859
Is it still what we're using?

571
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.900
Yeah, we still use the spore drive.

572
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.220
We don't have the tardigrade.

573
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:20.519
At this point, he has tardigrade DNA and a sort of implant that, um

574
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:24.480
so he used to have to be kind of get a needle in him, but instead

575
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.079
he's got this implant that, um, that Carl was made for him.

576
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:30.960
Now they use programmable matter and he just sticks his hand in

577
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.779
and book can do it as well because he's...

578
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.460
We're pushing away from all this experiment.

579
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.039
We're going a bit more normal Star Trek than are we with the

580
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:38.759
technology these days.

581
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:42.660
Well, I mean, I kind of think it makes sort of sense.

582
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.720
I thought that woman had her shirt off for a 2nd but she

583
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.119
doesn't...

584
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:50.700
He's doing that bizarre thing again, Nathan. you know, with

585
00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:51.779
stomachs. doing that.

586
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.259
Bizarre season one of all tricks where they have people behaving

587
00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:58.500
out of character before we even know the characters, you know?

588
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:58.980
Yeah.

589
00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:03.240
Although, I think I think that we establish pretty quickly that

590
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:04.980
Stamets is a bit of an asshole.

591
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:06.539
And by this point...

592
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:07.259
Yeah, yeah.

593
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:08.400
So we've had...

594
00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:08.880
Do you know what?

595
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:12.059
It means, it means you get scenes like that, wonderful scene with

596
00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:15.119
him and Tilly, where I think it's season 2 where they sing the

597
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.539
David Bowie song and it completely is some virtual expectation and

598
00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:20.160
it's so lovely, you know.

599
00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:22.619
Yeah, I think that's adorable.

600
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.500
There is a scene early on too, where both of them say this is so

601
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:26.220
fucking cool.

602
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.240
Like Tilly and him, I think, and they kind of bond over geeking

603
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:30.660
out of it.

604
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.839
Besides, there it is. there's Saru. technically it's not a fish

605
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:34.079
sir.

606
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:36.960
So funny.

607
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:39.180
Yeah, do watch your nest, doesn't he?

608
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.079
It doesn't get much to do.

609
00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:42.119
No, um...

610
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.079
It's nice looking pretty.

611
00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:47.279
I think Jason Isaacs is pretty, you know.

612
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:48.420
Oh, yeah, I do too.

613
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.240
I think he's totally handsome. he's sort of super sweaty in this

614
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:52.079
show as well.

615
00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:58.680
I like the fact as well, although it's nice that mud like steals

616
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.140
from his superstore of evil weapons, doesn't he?

617
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.259
Yeah, gets that fabulous purple ball.

618
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:12.599
Well, because there's that gaunt skeleton in his, in his, um, weird

619
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:15.420
kind of armoury thing that he has.

620
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:18.359
Yeah.

621
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:23.819
So, So I like, I think the thing I like about Lorker here is that

622
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:26.640
he is just openly the opposite of a Star Trek captain.

623
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:28.920
He's not interested in the Gormagan.

624
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:30.420
He's not interested in an explanation.

625
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:34.259
He deliberately calls it a fish to antagonise Saru probably, or

626
00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:37.019
because he doesn't give a shit because he's not interested in

627
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:38.339
knowledge and science and things.

628
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.359
Do you think they were deliberately pushing against all of these

629
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:43.859
trek cliches?

630
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:44.940
like they were doing it on purpose?

631
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.859
Well, I think to see if this franchise could come and be mattered

632
00:28:49.859 --> 00:28:50.819
into a very different shape.

633
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:55.740
I think that I think that they have those 2 big character

634
00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:59.940
mysteries which are where does Lawker come from?

635
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:00.839
Like what's his deal?

636
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:02.279
Why is he such an asshole?

637
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:10.500
And who is Ash, you know, and they don't quite ever do that again

638
00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:14.220
and their, you know, the suspense around it, I think, is actually

639
00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:16.680
a lot better than the payoff, and that's not from the case with

640
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:17.640
television. yeah.

641
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:20.880
And it is, that was fun to speculate, you know, as we were

642
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:21.359
watching it.

643
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:27.960
I think that I knew that Vok was Ash, um, I remember at the time

644
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:29.220
there was a lot of people talking about that.

645
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.460
Yeah, there was a lot of people talking like saying, oh, you know

646
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.140
he's been an acting on prison a long time.

647
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.000
He's got the same voice.

648
00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:39.119
He's got that sort of tenor voice in both roles.

649
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.960
Is it, is it, the same?

650
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:45.240
Is it the character we met in the 1st series, the Klingon we met

651
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:46.079
in like in the 1st scene?

652
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:46.619
Is it him?

653
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:50.220
The white Klingon, the one who, yeah, yeah, yeah.

654
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:51.960
I mean, it is clever.

655
00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:52.680
It is clever.

656
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:53.460
It's the same actor.

657
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.700
Again, it's like, it's like, um, they're kind of now we're getting

658
00:29:56.700 --> 00:30:00.240
to a point where we're on the ship and we're building a crew and

659
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.880
then they're literally going to wrench one after another.

660
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:06.660
I'm like, oh, this was very sweet where she said, look on Paul's

661
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:10.140
face because we don't hear it until he says it back to her in the

662
00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:10.740
next loop.

663
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:15.480
She whispers it into his ear and he just looks heartbroken.

664
00:30:15.539 --> 00:30:17.759
I'm so sorry.

665
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:21.900
She said something like, I've never kissed a boy or something like

666
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:22.140
that.

667
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.059
But what she actually says is.

668
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:25.440
Yeah, right, it is heartbreaking.

669
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:27.240
Yeah, she'd never been in love.

670
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:33.240
And that's why the party is the perfect place to open this because

671
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.380
you've got Tilly slightly pissed, absolutely, you know, being a

672
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:40.920
huge hornbag and talking about how much she wants to have sex with

673
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.920
the musicians and you've got Michael who's never been in a

674
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.460
relationship.

675
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:47.339
Look at the gaunt skeleton in the background.

676
00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:50.099
Fantastic, isn't it?

677
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:51.000
Look at it.

678
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.059
Not the herogen and their skeletons.

679
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:58.079
That's amazing This scene too, where he just repeatedly kills

680
00:30:58.079 --> 00:30:58.500
life.

681
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.440
This is the best scene in the episode, I think, and the way this

682
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:01.980
is shot.

683
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.539
So we're constantly behind him as he goes into the room and kills

684
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:09.539
Jason Isaac's character over and over again.

685
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.640
It is so brilliantly directed.

686
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:13.079
There's no cart.

687
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:14.640
We're constantly dropping frames.

688
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:17.819
The camera's changing directions all the time.

689
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:18.900
He kills him in different ways.

690
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.299
Bella's name, he does the music.

691
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.980
Jeff Russell.

692
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:27.299
So Jeff Russell says, in a quote on Marie Alpha, that he went back

693
00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:31.440
and watched the TOS episodes and he was determined to bring in

694
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:35.039
Mud's theme from the original series into this moment.

695
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:35.759
Yeah.

696
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:39.720
But it's purely comedic and massively over the top.

697
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:43.019
And he said he tried and he tried and he's like, no, he's walking

698
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:43.980
around killing people.

699
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:46.680
I cannot put this like...

700
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:47.880
He's playing over it.

701
00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:50.279
So he just created his own theme.

702
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:51.779
It's like a hot theme.

703
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:52.980
Yeah, yeah.

704
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:55.380
And this is the best thing about time loops, isn't it?

705
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.579
You can murder whatever you want.

706
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:59.460
You can blow up. you can do all those things that you can't

707
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.380
normally do. which is fab.

708
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.220
Oh my god.

709
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.059
Tilly is such a good time, girl, and she just spotted a hard

710
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:06.299
time.

711
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:07.079
Go over there.

712
00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:07.920
Go away.

713
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.579
This is a whole man.

714
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.339
Nathan, I'll be there in a heartbeat. telling you.

715
00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:18.119
That's the great thing about Tilly too.

716
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:23.940
It is 90s Star Trek is populated by space people and they behave

717
00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:27.359
differently from normal people and they talk in much longer and

718
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:29.220
more boring sentences than normal people.

719
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:35.279
And I think this version of Star Trek is determined for them not

720
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:36.240
to be space people.

721
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:40.140
Now, you know, occasionally they fail and there's long speeches of

722
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:41.880
a kind that no one would actually ever say.

723
00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:44.819
But there is a kind of more relaxed way that they speak in a more

724
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:46.740
naturalistic way. just more naturalistic.

725
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:47.160
Yeah.

726
00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:48.480
But I don't know.

727
00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:50.519
I question whether this is actually set in the thing or just

728
00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:51.119
aren't my cars.

729
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:52.619
Yeah, that's what you want.

730
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:53.279
Yeah.

731
00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:54.299
Well, not really.

732
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:55.920
No, I want to be transported into the future.

733
00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:58.440
Well, look, you're looking for different things there.

734
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:00.359
That's it.

735
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:04.740
I want them to be people that I can relate to, oh, look, Detma's

736
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:09.359
really getting into it there. like that when you end up just

737
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:10.380
snugging someone on the couch.

738
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.519
Oh, they're the best.

739
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.539
I don't know.

740
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:16.319
You wake up the next morning with a load of telephone numbers on

741
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:17.700
your arm and loads of regrets.

742
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:21.900
Oh, look at him.

743
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:25.380
Look at Stabitz watching her being really awkward with him.

744
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.539
Yeah, yeah, bless.

745
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:28.980
Look at this woman.

746
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:30.119
Get off in the corridor.

747
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:31.619
I know, she's really tall.

748
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:34.380
Now, look, back in TOS, remember, we're in the corridor and

749
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:35.279
someone's stroking the wall.

750
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:37.920
Skip forward to discovery and they're snogging against the wall.

751
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:38.640
They're snogging.

752
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:39.240
Yeah, yeah.

753
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:41.519
Oh, did you see that man's arse?

754
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:42.960
He walked by. very nice.

755
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.079
The party's really got you going, I think.

756
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:47.700
I was so sorry.

757
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:49.500
Don't take much.

758
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:50.220
Just one drink.

759
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:56.579
I think there's something very interesting about...

760
00:33:56.579 --> 00:33:59.339
What's the fellow's name who plays Stomach?

761
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.400
Um, Yeah, that guy.

762
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:04.019
Yeah, Anthony Rapp.

763
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:04.619
Him.

764
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.319
I think there's something very, very interesting about his

765
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:07.920
performance.

766
00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:12.239
There's like an intensity to it. you know, that I find really

767
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:13.139
interesting to watch.

768
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:17.280
And yeah, he's capable being extremely gentle and sensitive at

769
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:17.820
times as well.

770
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.199
Yeah, yeah.

771
00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:20.159
I think he's really good.

772
00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:24.300
I think I also think, you know, one of the things that I like is

773
00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:30.360
we get the discovery theme as a kind of as a slow dance here over

774
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.019
this scene.

775
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.480
So the music is the discovery theme.

776
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:36.480
And I love the line.

777
00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:37.980
Would you let me lead?

778
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:44.099
Like, she's so in control and so wound up and stuff like that that

779
00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:45.599
he says that.

780
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:47.639
I think it's these scenes, yeah.

781
00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:50.639
These seems here, um, the dancing scene.

782
00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.099
This is kind of what I needed earlier.

783
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:53.820
Yeah.

784
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:58.079
Yeah, there's not enough time. of them of them bonding.

785
00:34:58.139 --> 00:34:58.860
Yeah.

786
00:34:58.920 --> 00:34:59.340
Yeah.

787
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:00.780
Normally.

788
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:01.619
And do you know what as well?

789
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.360
Do you know something else I noticed about this episode?

790
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:05.519
It's just having a lot of fun, you know?

791
00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:08.460
And I don't think there was a great deal of fun in season one

792
00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:08.880
either.

793
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:09.960
There's a lot of action.

794
00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:12.059
There's a lot of emotion.

795
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:13.980
You know, there's a lot of shock twists.

796
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:18.239
There's a lot of drama, but it doesn't really relax often enough.

797
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:21.179
I think it does more now, sometimes too much.

798
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:26.400
I think, you know, like, I think there's, there's very Star Treky

799
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:31.260
things in this, in a way that people kind of underestimate that

800
00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:36.840
this is a bit sillier and a bit campier than uh, some people would

801
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.239
die.

802
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.860
The ending is so great.

803
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.019
Look how tall it is.

804
00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:48.239
Now she, no, wait, but she's getting close to him now, isn't she?

805
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.820
So she can talk to you about the time loops and all that.

806
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.300
But the way that shot, we see every detail of how that embrace

807
00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:55.320
forms itself.

808
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:57.960
Oh, look, there's some ladies dancing with each other.

809
00:35:58.019 --> 00:36:00.719
But, you know, we see his arms around.

810
00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:02.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

811
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:04.619
In the lighting in this scene as well.

812
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:05.280
Yeah.

813
00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:06.780
It's getting pierced.

814
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:10.019
Still is always pierced, I think, Joe. Honestly.

815
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:14.760
Yeah, so she's getting close to him to get have the conversation

816
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:15.840
about Maud.

817
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.900
It's so, you know, Michael, like this.

818
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.139
Do you know what they were all doing behind the scenes when they

819
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:29.099
were filming 4 days of this laborious party scene?

820
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.239
all playing ping-pong, apparently.

821
00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:32.519
Oh, that a ping-pong ball set up in the corner.

822
00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:37.019
Oh, well, they had peeping on the set for the for the beer pong

823
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:37.800
that they were playing earlier.

824
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:41.219
I think it's beer pong only with saurian brandy is my theory.

825
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:43.679
Or something like that.

826
00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:46.860
Oh, I love the way you know the names that drinks.

827
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.800
Maybe it's Tronia.

828
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.800
People with Tronia.

829
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:55.800
Did you know this episode was up for a Hugo?

830
00:36:55.860 --> 00:37:00.599
Yeah, I mean, that actually does happen sort of, you know, there

831
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.019
aren't that many genre of shows around the place.

832
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.179
Doctor Who frequently goes up for a Hugo.

833
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:08.460
I'm not surprised because I think this is very good.

834
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:14.639
And the thing that's good about it is, I think, what you

835
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:19.019
identified earlier, the fact that it's not just a time.

836
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:20.760
Oh, they're kissing for the 1st time.

837
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.440
Oh, asshole.

838
00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:23.340
Isn't that hard?

839
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:24.239
It's really hot.

840
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:25.199
Jesus.

841
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:27.300
Not like, not like...

842
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:28.500
Not like those chase kisses.

843
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.500
Remember that kiss between Tashiar and the fella in Yeste's

844
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:31.920
Enterprise?

845
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:38.159
Well, I was more thinking about, you know, Chief O'Brien and...

846
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.179
Oh, God, no.

847
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.840
Although, when, when, when Cisco Snob Cassidy, that was pretty

848
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.320
hard as well.

849
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:44.340
Yeah, yeah.

850
00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:49.559
Are we really rating the snogs of Star Trek here?

851
00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:50.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

852
00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:53.579
That's one of the reasons why Kurtzman Trek is superior 90s track

853
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:56.699
is the sexiness.

854
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:57.599
The hotness.

855
00:37:57.659 --> 00:38:01.139
The scenes between her and uh, is it book, booker?

856
00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:01.440
book?

857
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:02.039
Yeah, book.

858
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:04.079
It's like softcore porn.

859
00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:05.159
I'm getting you.

860
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:07.079
Yeah, no, that is smouldering.

861
00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:11.159
Right, here we go.

862
00:38:11.219 --> 00:38:12.539
Another loop.

863
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:13.980
He's an awesome on the shift.

864
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.800
Oh, yeah, so this is this is happening over Ash explaining the

865
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:23.699
thing.

866
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:24.480
Isn't that it?

867
00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:29.099
So Ash is explaining about the betazoid prison that he managed

868
00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:29.519
to.

869
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:31.019
And then we see him do it.

870
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.079
We see him avoiding people because he knows everyone's movements.

871
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:36.539
He knows where they're coming. and so on.

872
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:37.079
Yeah.

873
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:40.139
That's really well done, actually, because having them just stand

874
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:44.099
there at a party, talk about that at length we've been sort of

875
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:45.000
ridiculous.

876
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.300
And this is, it's a little bit more like a heist as well.

877
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.000
Remember, he's trying to pull off a heist and so we get a

878
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:52.440
description of the sort of things he can do.

879
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.440
It's parked with character moments though, isn't it?

880
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:58.980
It's like I said, it's basically everything I'm looking for in

881
00:38:58.980 --> 00:38:59.280
this show.

882
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:02.460
I was just thinking about causing an effect again for a 2nd.

883
00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:05.639
The tone of the 2 episodes is so different.

884
00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:09.360
This is genuinely just having a blast with the concept, is it?

885
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:15.059
Whereas there's a lot of like disquiet and suspense and like...

886
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:16.679
It's doing the fish line again.

887
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:19.139
Well, we're going to hear it many times.

888
00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:19.980
We're in a loop.

889
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:26.039
Yeah, the it's very staid and very stagey and it is very clever

890
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:29.340
and it takes advantage of the medium, you know, show with ad

891
00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:29.820
breaks.

892
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:32.880
So to have the time loop coincide with the ad breaks, I think is

893
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:33.480
genius.

894
00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:36.840
And they only break it in the last or the 2nd last iteration, which

895
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:38.280
spans to...

896
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.860
Well, and because with that, the loop is pretty much the same

897
00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:43.380
every time and the suspenses, we know where we're getting to if we

898
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:43.980
don't get out of it.

899
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.059
This ship's going to blow up.

900
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:48.900
Whereas this plays about, it's different every single time, isn't

901
00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:49.019
it?

902
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:49.739
Lots of...

903
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:52.440
Well, I think diversions.

904
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:56.940
Storytelling, you know, we come from a world that's full of

905
00:39:56.940 --> 00:39:59.340
universe, it's full of multiverses now.

906
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:05.820
There's no one solid core narrative, you know, and so the

907
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:10.380
storytelling here is much sloppier and much more makeshift, I

908
00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:10.500
think.

909
00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:10.860
I like it.

910
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:12.420
Lanky.

911
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.760
Well, I always felt like they literally just sat in a room and

912
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:17.159
went, right, what fun things can we do with this loop?

913
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:18.539
Ideas, writer's room.

914
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:19.079
Let's go.

915
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:20.699
What is that robot all about?

916
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.119
You know.

917
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:22.260
I never quite figured it out.

918
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:23.940
Oh, there's an episode about her.

919
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.139
Her final episode.

920
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:27.960
Well, isn't that the one where she leaves where she finally gets

921
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:28.920
some development, you know?

922
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:32.639
Well, because she's scenery in this season and absolutely designed

923
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:33.119
to be that.

924
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:36.599
And so she ends up just turning into a character in the final

925
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:37.079
episode.

926
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:38.639
We don't even know what.

927
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:39.480
No, it's Marvel...

928
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.980
The animated series where we were like with Arax and Umres.

929
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:46.739
We were like, oh, they've got these fabulous alien creatures.

930
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.079
We got to a point now in live action trek where we can pull it

931
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:49.260
off.

932
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:53.519
Oh, wait a sec, we're going to kill Ash instead of Bryce.

933
00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:54.900
Is that what's happening?

934
00:40:55.019 --> 00:40:57.780
So what's that little purple ball?

935
00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:58.380
What does it do?

936
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:01.079
Oh, it just sort of kills you in a really super painful way?

937
00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:04.079
and just leaves your face behind so you can do one last facial

938
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.039
expression before you?

939
00:41:05.099 --> 00:41:06.960
Oh, man, she has to watch it.

940
00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:07.440
Yeah.

941
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.900
Oh, but they're looking at each other.

942
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.380
Don't die.

943
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:16.380
Oh, please, you know if Paris is going to depart on discovery, even

944
00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:18.780
if they're dying, they're going to look at each other longingly.

945
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.679
That's what they show us.

946
00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:27.840
But I like that because now she has to, she can't solve it this

947
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:28.500
timeline.

948
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:31.619
She can't solve it in this loop, but she can't.

949
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:34.500
So surely she's in her stomach has to tell her.

950
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.280
Oh, she does know.

951
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:36.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

952
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:37.800
Stamitz told her ages ago.

953
00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:38.940
So she knows we're in a loop.

954
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:42.119
She's known that for ages. and no, hang on.

955
00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:44.579
There's logical inconsistency there then, because this has been

956
00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:45.719
looping again and again and again.

957
00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:46.980
So why does she...

958
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:47.820
She keeps knowing.

959
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:48.539
She, I don't know.

960
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.059
No, because the narrative needs her to know at this.

961
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:52.500
So now she knows going forward.

962
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.199
Now she knows that he has to restart the loop.

963
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:58.440
She can't win this time because Ash is dead and she doesn't want

964
00:41:58.440 --> 00:41:58.860
him dead.

965
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.139
Is this the bit where she kills her, where she commits suicide?

966
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:02.219
That's fabulous love that bit.

967
00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:05.760
Yeah, that's coming. that's coming when in Locker's office.

968
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:14.880
I do want to say, like, whilst this is a really fun episode, there

969
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.679
is a lot of like death in this episode.

970
00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:19.320
And it does have a bit of a sting to it.

971
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:23.519
And I know we're not there yet, but that's why the ending felt so

972
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.840
tonally jarring to me because we go from all this murder and

973
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:33.239
explosions and love and maturity into some weird TOS pantomime at

974
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:34.019
the last 5 minutes.

975
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:35.880
I was like, oh, what the fuck is this?

976
00:42:35.940 --> 00:42:38.519
Well, it's got to explain how he turns into.

977
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:39.780
It's his origin story.

978
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:41.099
He's much more evil.

979
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:47.039
And then he turns into an absurd fat panto villain.

980
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:50.940
It went from being the smartest guy in the room to being hitched

981
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:54.000
to this woman for being dragged off and I'm like, what?

982
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:56.219
Well, that's Stellar.

983
00:42:56.280 --> 00:43:01.500
We've never seen Stella in real life in original Star Trek, but we

984
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.019
do see all her Androids.

985
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:07.980
I like it, because she goes through him, I think the party line's

986
00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:09.780
like, oh, Harry, you are a naughty boy.

987
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.340
He certainly is.

988
00:43:16.619 --> 00:43:18.360
So hang on.

989
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:20.280
Have we lost the Tardigrade at this point?

990
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:23.400
It was on the ship for a little bit, wasn't it?

991
00:43:23.460 --> 00:43:27.659
And that was actually really good because it was the, can we

992
00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:33.360
torture an animal in order to make our ship run and our decision

993
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.159
was no, we can't do that.

994
00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:39.840
And the animal does kill Tory v.

995
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.599
Cylon from Battlestar Galactica.

996
00:43:42.659 --> 00:43:43.139
Remember her?

997
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:43.860
She's the uh.

998
00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:46.800
Oh, wasn't she a dreadful character?

999
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:49.860
Yeah, she literally will just come in the room. threaten people.

1000
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:53.579
Oh, yeah, and I was like, this cannot be a Starfleet officer

1001
00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:54.719
surely.

1002
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.000
She, I mean, she comes back, I think.

1003
00:43:57.059 --> 00:43:59.039
She may still be alive in the mirror universe.

1004
00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:02.340
We certainly do see her again at some point, but she is...

1005
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:04.440
It was incredibly unsourtful, which is a shame because I'll tell

1006
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.000
you what, the actress was amazing.

1007
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.440
Really bad Star Galactica.

1008
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:08.940
The scene where she murdered.

1009
00:44:09.059 --> 00:44:10.019
What was her name?

1010
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.800
took the baby off her and then opened the airlock and blew around

1011
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:15.480
her face. was incredible.

1012
00:44:15.539 --> 00:44:16.619
So good.

1013
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:19.380
Anyway, we're not on talking about Bounstalka Max.

1014
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.179
Really good show.

1015
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:26.699
You know, I wouldn't mind a roguish character like Harry Mud, you

1016
00:44:26.699 --> 00:44:29.219
know, joining the ensemble of this.

1017
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.340
They can all, they can be a bit serious at types, this car, you

1018
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:32.460
know.

1019
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:34.980
What book was that, but then they gave book the backstory of

1020
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:37.980
having had his total planet destroyed and he stopped being quite

1021
00:44:37.980 --> 00:44:38.400
so fun.

1022
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:40.679
Well, they did do it, didn't they?

1023
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.219
Because then they had Giorgio come along and she was our morally

1024
00:44:44.219 --> 00:44:45.900
ambiguous space bitch.

1025
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.420
She wasn't quite ambiguous, was she?

1026
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:49.860
She was just kind of really.

1027
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:50.519
Yeah, sorry.

1028
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:51.480
Just evil.

1029
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.460
She came good more times than last week.

1030
00:44:56.519 --> 00:45:00.840
Yeah, she was, she had, she was a genocidal dictator with a heart

1031
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:01.199
of gold.

1032
00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:03.420
Losing her.

1033
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:05.340
It was a sacrifice to the show, wasn't it?

1034
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:05.940
Losing her.

1035
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:06.900
Well, it was her.

1036
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.619
She did very well in that film.

1037
00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:13.199
Everything everywhere all at once, which I thought was

1038
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:13.860
magnificent.

1039
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.559
I just saw a poster for that today. looks incredible.

1040
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:19.739
It's really good and there's a lot of Michelle in it, a lot of

1041
00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:21.599
cousin Michelle, and she's supposed...

1042
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:23.760
But you know, when she also looked marvellous, was when she came

1043
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.099
out wearing that gold costume in the Mirror Universe.

1044
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.820
I started smacking everyone down with martial arts and lasers.

1045
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:32.039
I was like, oh, my God, this can't get any better.

1046
00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:33.900
It's so good.

1047
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:34.800
And there we go.

1048
00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:36.539
She's eating the thing.

1049
00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:37.980
Just eating the thing.

1050
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.840
It's really not agreeing with her, right?

1051
00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:41.579
I think it's dark matter or something, isn't it?

1052
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.739
Yeah, yeah, or it's just something spacing.

1053
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:45.420
Yeah, yes, that's it.

1054
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:46.559
It has that.

1055
00:45:46.619 --> 00:45:49.679
A great purple effect where you basically solve.

1056
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:52.920
But now he has to run it through one more time because he wants to

1057
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:54.179
sell her to the Klingons.

1058
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:57.780
I have seen this cliche done before they, where people are like

1059
00:45:57.780 --> 00:45:59.400
okay, so in order to outfox you.

1060
00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:00.659
Well, Doctor Who just did it, didn't it?

1061
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:03.900
And even the garlic, we need to kill ourselves on this, on this

1062
00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:06.059
loop. and then win the next time.

1063
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.239
What's nice as well?

1064
00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:10.800
The parties take on a different tone now.

1065
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.019
There's like a desperate tones of the party, isn't it?

1066
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:14.219
Because I can't get away from here.

1067
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.139
Like, sorry, I can't flirt with you right now.

1068
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:17.099
I've gotta save the ship.

1069
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:23.699
And of course, the reason that we don't see her repeatedly being

1070
00:46:23.699 --> 00:46:28.380
told by Stamets that this is a time loop is that as the audience

1071
00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:31.079
we've seen that once, and so they don't need to screen that bit

1072
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:32.820
again, we just take it as red.

1073
00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.579
Are we assuming this is happening every time now and then?

1074
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:39.179
Yeah, but we don't even think about it because this isn't a real

1075
00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:40.019
time loop.

1076
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.300
This is a TV show TV episode.

1077
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.019
And so if she's told at one point in the episode, we just assume

1078
00:46:46.019 --> 00:46:47.699
that she knows it all the way through.

1079
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:49.619
And I think that that's the right approach.

1080
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:54.119
I'll tell you why the ending was so jarring, is because I think up

1081
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:57.659
until that point, everything that narratively is going on, it's

1082
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:01.019
quite clever, you know, and I thought, oh my god, they're going to

1083
00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:03.360
think a way out of this situation in such a brilliant way.

1084
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:06.300
And then now, come on, you're off to get hitched.

1085
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.860
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1086
00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:12.900
I think it is literally you're off to go into original.

1087
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:18.780
TOS is coming to take you away to where you belong, rather than

1088
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:21.179
our gritty reboot, which is still kind of can.

1089
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.340
So just isn't too aware, is it?

1090
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.099
That's why it feels so weird Yeah, yeah.

1091
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.559
So it's about as far from TOS as you can get.

1092
00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:32.519
But I mean, the preposterous outfit Stella is wearing a sort of 60

1093
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:37.079
style frock that makes it look as if she's walked out of an

1094
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.960
episode of Star Trek, the original series.

1095
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:41.340
It's so great.

1096
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:42.119
It's so stupid.

1097
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:46.679
They should have done some really flat direction and everything

1098
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:47.880
just gone the whole Hulk, you know?

1099
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:52.139
So the Buran is another mystery isn't it?

1100
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:53.159
Or sort of.

1101
00:47:53.219 --> 00:47:54.360
Oh my goodness.

1102
00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:55.139
What is it?

1103
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:59.039
It was his previous ship, which only he survived and everything

1104
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:00.300
else got destroyed.

1105
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:00.900
Wow.

1106
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.460
We know what happened to those people.

1107
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:04.260
Yeah, he probably ate them.

1108
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:12.300
He doesn't reveal his colours, though, doesn't it, until...

1109
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:13.380
Until they're in the mirror universe.

1110
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.360
Oh, he forces them into it, doesn't it?

1111
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:17.280
right. pushes them into it.

1112
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.500
But not they don't know about it.

1113
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:22.559
Like it is just one more jump and then they end up in the mirror

1114
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:23.219
universe.

1115
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:26.340
And that's why, you're going to fight me on this, right?

1116
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:27.059
So come up me.

1117
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:31.440
Um, when we come out of the mirror universe about all that fun and

1118
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.619
the ending just felt so anticlimactic because we haven't been here

1119
00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:37.320
for like 4 episodes and it was like, well, that's it.

1120
00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:39.420
We going to wrap up the war for the end, season two.

1121
00:48:39.539 --> 00:48:44.099
But I do like how they wrap up the war and they wrap up the war by

1122
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:47.219
just saying, no, we're not going to blow up, secretly blow up the

1123
00:48:47.219 --> 00:48:49.679
Klingon home world and kill all these people.

1124
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:50.940
And...

1125
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.820
Is it the end of this season where they go like, I'm Starfleet.

1126
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:54.900
I'm Starfleet.

1127
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:56.639
Oh, kind of.

1128
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:57.000
Shit.

1129
00:48:57.059 --> 00:48:59.880
They give a big speech and they get awards for being Starfleet. and

1130
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:00.900
I think that that's exactly it.

1131
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:04.139
Not seen anything as agonising as that scene in DS9 where they all

1132
00:49:04.139 --> 00:49:07.679
go, ninos before the baseball match. awesome.

1133
00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:12.659
I do think, you know what?

1134
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:13.739
I was thinking about this the other day.

1135
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.380
I do think this show was custom built for you.

1136
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:17.099
You know?

1137
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:23.699
I think it's, I think it's like beautifully made television and I

1138
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:28.920
think you really appreciate television that kind of pushes the

1139
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:29.760
boat out visually.

1140
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:36.059
I think it, um, it focusses on some like real emotion as well.

1141
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.360
And I know like in Doctor Who and things like that, that you like

1142
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:42.780
emotional arcs and I pushes it a lot, but you know.

1143
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:46.260
Um, I think it does complex storytelling.

1144
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.880
I think it has political illusions.

1145
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:51.119
I think it just has a lot of things that you love all witched in

1146
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:52.079
there together.

1147
00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:54.900
I can absolutely see why you adore this.

1148
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.679
I think maybe the other reason I adore it is that it's a bit of a

1149
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:02.099
problem and there are times when it's not successful and

1150
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:03.360
that's...

1151
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.159
No, that's why you like this season because it's fucking

1152
00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:05.880
contrary.

1153
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:08.039
I think this season's genuinely good.

1154
00:50:08.099 --> 00:50:10.079
I think season 2 is a bit of a mess.

1155
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:13.440
I think the jump into the future was just like super weird, but it

1156
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.239
ends up being quite good.

1157
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.719
And I think... think is the best season today?

1158
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:22.320
I like the season a lot.

1159
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:24.179
This is a sentimental favourite.

1160
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.420
I think 4 is incredibly strong.

1161
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.639
And the reason...

1162
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.039
Yeah, so it ends.

1163
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:34.559
So, you know, there's a sort of mid-season break for a couple of

1164
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.559
weeks or whatever and then there's a run of episodes, maybe sort

1165
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:40.380
of 5 or 6 or 7 episodes, like the half the season.

1166
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:47.639
And they absolutely nail having an ongoing arc, a single ongoing

1167
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:52.559
mission, and doing something different each week in a satisfying

1168
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:57.780
way, and they absolutely get it perfect and the other thing.

1169
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:02.639
The other thing they do, and this is super weird for Star Trek, is

1170
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.800
some proper science fiction.

1171
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:06.599
It's so clever.

1172
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:08.460
It's really smart.

1173
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.199
I'm a huge fan.

1174
00:51:10.260 --> 00:51:11.760
Yeah, I like a lot.

1175
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:12.539
Is it one episode?

1176
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:13.380
Oh, hang on.

1177
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:15.059
Sorry to interrupt you, but here we go.

1178
00:51:15.179 --> 00:51:15.719
Stella.

1179
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.019
She literally looks like the woman that themed on the bridge in

1180
00:51:19.019 --> 00:51:20.159
Spock's brain, didn't she?

1181
00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:22.260
The purple.

1182
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.480
Oh, Harry.

1183
00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:31.260
See, we see him pushed around, don't we?

1184
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.599
In original series?

1185
00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:35.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1186
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:40.139
But but he also then he creates like female automatons and things

1187
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:40.500
like that.

1188
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:42.900
It's a bit weird and sexist.

1189
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.320
But is it Android Stella who yells at him at the end of months

1190
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:47.280
women or something?

1191
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:51.000
I have to confess that I have seen them, but I can't remember them

1192
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:51.300
very well.

1193
00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:55.619
I don't know, but the real seller is fabulous and we should have

1194
00:51:55.619 --> 00:51:56.039
seen her again.

1195
00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:58.739
Well, I don't think we've ever seen the real Stella.

1196
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.679
I think all we've seen is Android duplicate Stella.

1197
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:04.380
His ship is called the Stellar.

1198
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:08.400
I think we hear about Stella, but we never actually see that.

1199
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:10.800
I mean, he does it all, but turn to the camera painfully without

1200
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:14.159
wack, wack, kind of musical sting, doesn't it?

1201
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:14.880
Women.

1202
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:16.619
Women be crazy.

1203
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:20.099
Yeah, this man's dressed all in leather.

1204
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:20.940
I know.

1205
00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:21.960
Basically a whip.

1206
00:52:22.019 --> 00:52:22.559
Is it leather?

1207
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:23.880
Oh, it is...

1208
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:25.260
You are gonna be whipped.

1209
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:27.900
He's wearing a tie.

1210
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:31.260
We are laughing.

1211
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:32.099
It's fun.

1212
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:32.820
Don't get me wrong.

1213
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:36.000
It's fun, but it isn't part of the episode we've been watching.

1214
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:42.840
And look, all the discovery characters look a bit out of place.

1215
00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:45.420
With all this, I'm like, oh.

1216
00:52:45.539 --> 00:52:47.400
Yeah, these are super weird.

1217
00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:50.400
So good.

1218
00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:52.019
Oh my God.

1219
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:54.960
Did you see the look she gave Burnham when she was beaming out?

1220
00:52:55.019 --> 00:52:58.320
This sort of coquettish look, like, what?

1221
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:02.880
Oh, it was a great ship as well.

1222
00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:04.139
Oh yeah, yeah.

1223
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:05.099
Oh, here we go.

1224
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:06.239
Right, let's see what she's learned.

1225
00:53:06.539 --> 00:53:09.599
Oh, are they going to keep?

1226
00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:10.619
Come on, ask him out.

1227
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:11.579
Ask him out.

1228
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.219
Yeah, because Stamitz really wants them to get together because

1229
00:53:14.219 --> 00:53:15.000
he's so tall.

1230
00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:20.039
There's nothing more annoying than progress occurring in a high

1231
00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:22.619
concept episode that's wiped out with a reset.

1232
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:24.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1233
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:24.719
Yeah.

1234
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:25.800
But they know about it.

1235
00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:26.219
Is it?

1236
00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:28.679
It's not wiped out because Stamitz told them.

1237
00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:29.400
Yeah.

1238
00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:31.980
Well, plus they end up having whole sex anyway.

1239
00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:33.239
Yeah, yeah.

1240
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.920
I'm a really good dad.

1241
00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:42.420
Oh, that's so fun.

1242
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.679
Holy crap.

1243
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:44.699
Easy, Burnham.

1244
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:50.340
Like, they aren't together at the end, but they've moved closer to

1245
00:53:50.340 --> 00:53:50.880
being together.

1246
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.860
There's a seed for the future.

1247
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.780
And they understand each other a bit better and...

1248
00:53:57.780 --> 00:53:58.860
But as well, do you know what?

1249
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.920
Honestly, I think this is the 1st time I warmed to Burnham, that

1250
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:04.920
confession about never being in love and I was like, that's

1251
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:05.880
heartbreaking, you know.

1252
00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:13.619
You know, it, I think, I don't really think that, like, I think

1253
00:54:13.619 --> 00:54:17.099
they walk back this characterisation where she's sort of weird ass

1254
00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:18.599
falcon sort of thing.

1255
00:54:18.659 --> 00:54:21.119
And I think that that was the right thing to do, particularly as

1256
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:22.920
she becomes the captain as well.

1257
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:26.639
Um, And she's nothing like this now.

1258
00:54:26.699 --> 00:54:30.179
Well, you know, you say with all the revisions in series 2, in

1259
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:30.659
series 2.

1260
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:32.219
She just cries a whole year.

1261
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:33.539
I swear to God.

1262
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:34.440
Yeah, that's it.

1263
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:35.820
Staring off camera crying.

1264
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:39.719
Yeah, because they discover that Sanequa is incredibly good at

1265
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:39.960
that.

1266
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:43.619
And so they just write her all these emotion things that she has

1267
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:43.920
to do.

1268
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:45.960
And then I couldn't believe.

1269
00:54:46.019 --> 00:54:48.599
I think one of my favourite episodes of Discovery, and you're

1270
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:53.099
going to think I'm crazy is season 3, episode one.

1271
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:55.079
I know you love the season two, episode one.

1272
00:54:55.139 --> 00:54:58.320
But season three, episode one, where they literally cut loose from

1273
00:54:58.320 --> 00:54:59.340
everything they've done before.

1274
00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:02.099
They're setting the scene for the burn.

1275
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:03.960
But her performance in that.

1276
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:06.599
It's like, it's worth it.

1277
00:55:06.659 --> 00:55:07.500
She's so relaxed.

1278
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.920
Oh, that bit is amazingly funny.

1279
00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:13.199
I'm telling you, where she trips.

1280
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:16.139
Who knew she was that good at comedy, eh?

1281
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:18.059
Because she's been so bloody serious before that point.

1282
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:20.099
Oh, that was delightful.

1283
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:22.079
That was absolutely...

1284
00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:24.480
That's the sort of episode.

1285
00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:30.179
I'd like to see more of in Discovery where they just take like a

1286
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:34.380
predictable concept and have a fucking ball with it, you know?

1287
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:39.840
I think that you would like the end of series 4 because it's a

1288
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.039
definite trajectory.

1289
00:55:41.099 --> 00:55:45.719
It tells a single story, but each episode has a satisfying thing

1290
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:52.440
in it and is about people, like about their experiences.

1291
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:56.940
And it's really about Star Trek being Star Trek.

1292
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:00.239
And that's one of the things that occurred to me because Strange

1293
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:04.739
New World started this week, sort of just a few days ago as we

1294
00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:10.139
record this, and it has kind of taken the mantle of being Star

1295
00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:10.739
Trek.

1296
00:56:11.219 --> 00:56:12.780
Yeah.

1297
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:17.099
There's no sort of heavy expectation on these other 2 established

1298
00:56:17.099 --> 00:56:21.599
shows now to be, you know, the Star Trekiest Star Trek.

1299
00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:24.599
Because it, I mean, it's in the title.

1300
00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:30.420
It's from the speech in Star Trek, TOS and Star Trek, TNG, the

1301
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:33.000
Strange New Worlds to explore Strange New Worlds, seek out new

1302
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:34.619
life and new civilisations.

1303
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:37.619
Discovery does that at the end of series 4 in what is a really

1304
00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:41.639
interesting way, a really impressively interesting way.

1305
00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:45.059
You put me off this, you know, watching series four.

1306
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:49.619
You set me that clip of the Captain Archer Space Station with the

1307
00:56:49.619 --> 00:56:52.139
edge of 5 music playing over it and I was like, no, I'm out.

1308
00:56:52.260 --> 00:56:52.619
I'm sorry.

1309
00:56:52.860 --> 00:56:54.539
So great.

1310
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:56.219
I love that so much.

1311
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.239
You know what?

1312
00:56:57.300 --> 00:57:00.900
I'm convinced by other reviews, but obviously by your compelling

1313
00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:01.800
argument as well.

1314
00:57:01.860 --> 00:57:03.840
I will definitely put it on because you know what?

1315
00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:06.780
The random eyes will only pick it soon, series 4 and I will have a

1316
00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:07.380
clue what's going on.

1317
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:08.639
Yeah, that's true.

1318
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:09.599
That's true.

1319
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:15.119
But this is an anomaly, isn't it, in season one.

1320
00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:22.440
And I think, okay, I'm this is a subjective opinion, but I think

1321
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.679
season one is written off.

1322
00:57:26.219 --> 00:57:32.519
Overall, as an ambitious failure rather than a success.

1323
00:57:32.579 --> 00:57:36.059
But I think this is a success within.

1324
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:40.139
Yeah, that failure. this is an episode that's far on all

1325
00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:40.559
cylinders.

1326
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:45.119
I think that if it wasn't for series one, we wouldn't have what we

1327
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:50.400
have now, like it was successful on all sorts of levels, like just

1328
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:53.820
getting a Star Trek series produced, having it look as incredible

1329
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:58.500
as it does, having a mixture of kind of grittiness with sort of

1330
00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:03.719
Star Trek goofiness and stuff, being proper Star Trek made in the

1331
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:04.619
21st century.

1332
00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:06.780
And I think they definitely achieved that.

1333
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.800
And then I think what's happened is, you know, the original goal

1334
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:16.079
that it would be an anthology series and that every year it would

1335
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:18.840
you know, you mentioned it before, that it would have a different

1336
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:21.960
premise and a different cast and stuff, a little bit like, say

1337
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:23.760
American horror story or something like that.

1338
00:58:24.179 --> 00:58:28.980
I think that we're getting that and we're getting it by having a

1339
00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:33.119
huge number of shows with reasonably short seasons that are only

1340
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:34.559
going to run for a number of years.

1341
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:37.739
So we've got that with 30 episodes of the card.

1342
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:42.539
Here is something set. you know, at the turn of the century, at

1343
00:58:42.539 --> 00:58:46.860
the turn of the 25th century, starring an older Picard, and we get

1344
00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:49.260
to see 3 adventures of him doing a thing.

1345
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:54.360
Oh, but I don't think Discovery is only going to run...

1346
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:55.860
No, like he's been renewed for five.

1347
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:59.460
I think he'll probably hit 7 like the other hits, possibly more.

1348
00:58:59.579 --> 00:59:04.619
It's proven that it can reinvent itself successfully and be, you

1349
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:07.440
know, like we said, where it is now is not here.

1350
00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:10.980
It's not in the same time period with hardly any of the same

1351
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:14.400
characters, with the same tone, with the same performances, you

1352
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:14.639
know.

1353
00:59:14.699 --> 00:59:17.039
And yet it's still being made and still being enjoyed.

1354
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.760
Yeah.

1355
00:59:17.820 --> 00:59:21.179
Yeah, look, I think that there'll be new series come along.

1356
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:25.559
I think, you know, there will be new different Star Trek series

1357
00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:29.460
coming that will be, you know, that won't have the nearly 200

1358
00:59:29.460 --> 00:59:33.659
episodes or whatever that a 90 Star Trek series has.

1359
00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:36.420
It just has a smaller run of episodes and does a different thing

1360
00:59:36.420 --> 00:59:37.320
from everything else.

1361
00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:39.599
And I'm so interested by that.

1362
00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:40.800
I really like it.

1363
00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:44.340
And while ever sort of paramount plus as business model demands

1364
00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:48.420
that we have a new Star Trek episode every week, I'm kind of here

1365
00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:48.719
for it.

1366
00:59:48.900 --> 00:59:53.340
Well, you know what's great as well, is that because they are

1367
00:59:53.340 --> 00:59:55.019
denser seasons.

1368
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:59.940
They're shorter and generally speaking, like a season has a

1369
00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:01.980
narrative and things like that.

1370
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:05.340
In Kurtzman Trek, we don't end up with fucking bollocks, like some

1371
01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:06.000
Rosa.

1372
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:09.119
And, you know, when they were churning out 24 episodes a year and

1373
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.400
they were like, right, 26 of these can be really good.

1374
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:15.480
The other half, you know, night terrors, you know, the game.

1375
01:00:15.539 --> 01:00:16.500
Oh, no, you like that one.

1376
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:19.199
Sorry. move along home. you know, we'll just chat out any old

1377
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:19.500
shit.

1378
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:20.039
They watch it.

1379
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:20.940
They'll watch it, you know.

1380
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:25.139
But now, there's no there's no real scope for episodes like that

1381
01:00:25.139 --> 01:00:25.739
now, is there?

1382
01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:26.880
Yeah.

1383
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:32.340
They're all, they're all going to be competently made and um

1384
01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:35.219
because kind of part of an overall story and that's just where

1385
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:36.300
Star Trek is now.

1386
01:00:39.539 --> 01:00:44.820
Okay, it's time for us to choose next week's Star Trek episode and

1387
01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:51.599
it's time for me to choose next week's episode, which is why he is

1388
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:57.719
on Untitled Star Trek project.com slash Randomiser, which has been

1389
01:00:57.719 --> 01:01:04.260
newly updated for the new Star Trek landscape, which is that I

1390
01:01:04.260 --> 01:01:08.400
have added Star Trek Strange New Worlds down the bottom.

1391
01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:13.920
And I've left a place for eventual Star Trek, Elnor and Rios, which

1392
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:15.900
is something I have in development.

1393
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.460
Starshow Rios, honest to God, spoilers, bark.

1394
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:21.780
I still can't believe they wrote him out.

1395
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:24.119
I would have offered series 3 now if I'm honest.

1396
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:26.940
Yeah, it's Elanor's back, though. so it's fine.

1397
01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:28.079
I told you.

1398
01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:29.699
Did not say when we watched that episode.

1399
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:30.420
All right?

1400
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:34.440
I couldn't have taken Raffi being any more upset than she was

1401
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:35.400
about Rios.

1402
01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:38.579
It made me happy that the writers gave for a little break at the

1403
01:01:38.579 --> 01:01:38.820
end.

1404
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:42.059
She deserved that I love Raffi and she was pretty great in that

1405
01:01:42.059 --> 01:01:42.360
it.

1406
01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:47.340
Well, Nathan, I've decided to, obviously, it's my choice this

1407
01:01:47.340 --> 01:01:47.639
week.

1408
01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:52.860
So to commemorate, you know, the expansion of the untitled Star

1409
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:59.820
Trek Randomiser, that I'm going to select Strange New Worlds as

1410
01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:03.239
the series that we're going to be randomly selecting from, okay?

1411
01:02:03.300 --> 01:02:04.199
Okay.

1412
01:02:04.260 --> 01:02:09.960
Now, you do realise that on the website, it says that this was

1413
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:13.739
recorded on the 11th of May and that I will go on to say that in

1414
01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:14.400
the credits.

1415
01:02:14.460 --> 01:02:22.019
So, what episode have you rolled on the 11th of May on the

1416
01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:22.800
randomiser?

1417
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:29.760
Okay, so the episode selected by the randomiser is Strange New

1418
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:31.500
Worlds. brilliant.

1419
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:35.820
It's like the episode of Enterprise we did only plural.

1420
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:37.619
Amazing.

1421
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:38.940
Amazing.

1422
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:42.119
Silly kid.

1423
01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:46.679
I can only imagine this is going to be a bit better than that

1424
01:02:46.679 --> 01:02:46.860
though.

1425
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:47.880
Yeah.

1426
01:02:47.940 --> 01:02:51.000
You know, I actually said that I was planning on pulling this

1427
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:54.780
trick so that we could watch the 1st episode of Prodigy because we

1428
01:02:54.780 --> 01:02:59.820
did actually record an episode of this podcast after only one

1429
01:02:59.820 --> 01:03:03.480
episode of Prodigy and Ed. But this is kind of a bit of a big deal

1430
01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:10.260
because it is the new live action Star Trek spun off of series 2

1431
01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:11.099
of Discovery.

1432
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:14.039
And I think it's really interesting.

1433
01:03:14.099 --> 01:03:15.179
You haven't seen it yet, have you?

1434
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:16.679
I haven't.

1435
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:17.039
No.

1436
01:03:17.099 --> 01:03:19.920
And frankly, I'm pleased that you've asked us to pull off this

1437
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:22.980
trick because it's, I think I confessed it on Mike the other day

1438
01:03:22.980 --> 01:03:26.159
that, you know, like, because I like to feel important.

1439
01:03:26.219 --> 01:03:29.460
I refuse to watch things alongside other people and they're

1440
01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:31.380
waiting until they, that's our old hat and then I watch it.

1441
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:34.739
This is going to force me to watch the 1st episode of Strange New

1442
01:03:34.739 --> 01:03:37.860
Worlds, of which I am I'm gonna make a few predictions.

1443
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:39.239
Okay, all right.

1444
01:03:39.300 --> 01:03:42.719
I think it is going to be visually arresting.

1445
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:46.079
I think the music is going to be extraordinary.

1446
01:03:46.139 --> 01:03:48.840
Anson Williams, is that it?

1447
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:50.760
Who answered Williams's Potsey from?

1448
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:51.780
How embarrassing.

1449
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:52.559
What's his name?

1450
01:03:52.619 --> 01:03:57.780
No, Hanson Williams was Potsey from Happy Days, but he did go on

1451
01:03:57.780 --> 01:04:00.420
to direct a fair amount of Star Trek, actually.

1452
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.699
That's why his name came up.

1453
01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:04.500
Yeah, so it's Mount.

1454
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:07.019
I think Anson Mount is going to be...

1455
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:10.980
Handsome Manson is going to be charismatic and wonderful.

1456
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:15.059
And there's, from what I've seen from the publicity pictures, It's

1457
01:04:15.059 --> 01:04:19.320
going to be a huge array of colourful and exciting alien

1458
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:19.679
characters.

1459
01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:20.760
Yes.

1460
01:04:20.820 --> 01:04:22.980
Those are all fair predictions.

1461
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:27.179
And I also think as well it's going to feel very TOS.

1462
01:04:34.619 --> 01:04:38.940
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1463
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:40.199
and Nathan Bottomley.

1464
01:04:40.260 --> 01:04:43.739
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1465
01:04:43.739 --> 01:04:46.260
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1466
01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:49.980
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and our theme was

1467
01:04:49.980 --> 01:04:51.539
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1468
01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:56.159
This episode was recorded on the 11th of May 2022 and released on

1469
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:57.659
the 20th of May.

1470
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:01.619
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, Strange New Worlds, Strange

1471
01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:02.099
New Worlds.