Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back on the original series this week and both of us
have now watched The Doomsday Machine.
What did you think of it?
This was Spec fucking Tacula.
It's really good, isn't it?
This is one of the best episodes of Star Trek.
I swear to God.
Amazingly good.
I had seen it before and I did have some memories of it.
And I think last week I say that it had some sort of more modern
trek sensibilities and you can certainly see them doing things
that you associate with 90s trek than you don't necessarily
associate with the original series, but it just does great
original series things too, I think.
This had an intensity and a suspense to it that most other Star
Trek shows would weep to have.
I'm telling you.
And it was unrelenting.
Like the momentum of drama that builds up leading up to the
climax.
I was like, there, again, like...
I'm actually struggling to kind of put my finger on why I think
it's so great.
And I think there's a combination of a really, really strong guest
performance.
Yes, definitely.
Good performances from the regulars, particularly Nimoy and
Shatner.
No, stunningly good.
I think Shatner and Nemoy are both brilliant.
I think Duhan does a great job in this as well.
Yeah, for once.
And um, But it is still a space procedural.
It's still, you know, competent people solving space problems.
Well, it absolutely is, but it's about a machine that destroys
entire planets.
I mean, that's on a scale that a lot of Star Trek. are dealing
with, you know.
And you and me said off mic, really the only time the next
generation aspired to be this intense was best to both worlds.
And what were they doing in that?
scooping great colonies off of planets and threatening the earth
you know?
Like Star Trek is very, the space mysteries that we deal with.
They're usually like on the level of power play, aren't they?
Little twinklebell lights going into people and taking them over
and that's your problem.
This is big.
This is something that the show has gone back to, and like 2 of
the films, like one and 4, both have giant machines heading
towards Earth that we don't know what they're doing.
So we do go back here.
Um, but I think there's, there's just so little known about
whatever this machine is and what its purpose is and stuff, that
that works really well.
It's sort of an ill-defined threat.
And the closest parallel I can think of is Discovery series 4
which I think takes some inspiration from this episode with a
DMA.
I couldn't possibly talk about Discovery season 4 because I've not
watched it yet.
Yeah, you've told me how good it is and I've heard some good
reviews as well. get around to it.
I thought there were some parallels with the early stages of the
cord mite maneuver because that is also an unknowable, but that's
a bit more opaque, isn't it?
It's a bit more, we don't really know what that's all about.
This is something that destroys starships, destroys planets, you
know, if you get in this thing's way, you're in trouble.
Yeah, yeah.
And I just think it's, I don't know.
There's a simplicity to it.
We said last week that Star Trek, the original series has the
advantage and Star Trek, the Next Generation, to some extent, have
the advantage of being able to do things for the 1st time.
So this doesn't feel like anything else, it's sort of warmed
over.
This is the 1st time we've done giant Planet Killer.
The captain who's lost his entire crew.
And all of that sort of stuff is new.
And I think that helps.
It does.
Also, there's no flabbiness at all.
There's no B plot.
I mean, I don't think TOS really did B plots.
That that came along in 90s track, but really there's none of like
the, you know, the quirky fun moments that you're getting a lot of
tier wets episodes kind of pad out the hour.
This is very focussed on the story that is telling.
I think there are fun moments in it.
Oh, absolutely.
But they kind of, it's focussed.
That's what I'm saying.
It's focussed on the problem throughout.
Um, and I think because you have like that human avatar, you have
um, Decca, who has already experienced the horror of this thing as
well.
Like you have a massive emotional involvement in this too.
Yeah, yeah.
And that performance is just so intense and so real.
I was really impressed.
I also think what's interesting.
This sounds weird, but I think it's interesting that we have kind
of 2 separate locations as well.
We've got the constellation and we've got the enterprise and you
know, then eventually we have the shuttle and just the fact that
Kirk and Scotty are on the constellation communicating
coordinating this thing from ship to ship.
I think, there's something interesting.
There's something Star Trek, the Next Generation about that.
It sounds really trivial, but it makes them seem like they're
working together to solve a giant space problem in a really
competent way, and I really like that.
You know, just coming across some like unknowable, like, oh, look
at the probe in Star Trek 4, for goodness sakes, and things like
that.
But it feels very next gen that, like coming across some flotsam
that's, you know, dreadnaught, the missile in that and, you know
in episodes like that.
And also using the regular sets to play another environment, like
trashing the regular set.
Oh, that was really clever.
And they look really, you know, it's not too over the top because
when they do it in Knight's track.
Yeah, it's not open to dry ice. all the girders are everywhere.
Turn the lights down. satellite on that, isn't it?
And in fact, the other thing about this, that was, it's just
incredibly well executed.
I was very aware of how crafted the direction was.
Whereas, you know, we've watched a ton of 90s straight where we
were saying, well, this is a bit lazy, actually.
This isn't like, you know, the directors, they're putting out
competent work, but they're not kind of really looking to
impress.
Whereas this was directed by Mark Daniels, who unbelievably also
directed Spock's brain.
Yeah, I think we said at the time that Spock's brain was what kind
of did him in.
That's where he said fuck it, I'm not going to be involved in this
nonsense.
I'm not making this.
Yeah.
And, you know, I threw a bit of trivia you earlier when I said, he
basically won a bet, that he could complete this in 5 days when
the usual shooting schedule was six.
And something this good was made in a limited amount of time kudos
to him.
Yeah.
No, it's really, it's really, really something, isn't it?
The other thing is to the music, which, oh, great.
It's so good.
I was a bit worried because I was watching at 4 in the morning and
it's only the person I live with complains when the TV is a bit
loud and that music kept getting louder and louder.
Yeah, where's the remote?
I need to turn this thing down.
But you know, I keep using the word intense.
That music is really intense, isn't it?
And it's almost like, um, what is it, you say, it's almost like
it's digetic because every time the machine every time the machine
appears, like, brings an orchestra with it.
How could I possibly scare the shower every more?
you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it just makes the decision in 90s trek to turn the
music into just kind of wallpaper.
Absolutely baffling because the music is so important.
Burman said, didn't he?
And those early seasons of TNG, the music is, I mean, it's not
amazing.
But it's loud and apparent.
Remember best of both worlds.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's like all of the weird electric chorus that they do and
things like that.
Like it's, but it's kind of after that when Bourbon goes.
No, no, that's, we need to be a bit more...
Yeah.
It's like it's melodrama.
It's science fiction.
Would you stop directing them scoring these episodes, please?
Thank you very much.
That's it.
Stop making it good.
All right.
Well, we did that last week.
All right, what do you think?
Should we just launch straight in?
I think this is good.
I cannot wait to watch this.
I cannot wait.
And I think for once, everybody, I know you're all listening to
this in your podcast catches.
Watch it along with us.
This is good enough to watch along with this commentary. really
great.
All right, I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Do you know, um, James Duhan, who cites this as the best episode
of the original series.
His favourite.
Dorothy Fontana, DC Montana.
She hated it.
She said it was the worst episode of the original series.
I'm wondering what she was watching, you know?
Yeah.
So Ahura's got the week off and we have Lieutenant...
Beehive hairdo.
Yeah, look, and she gets soft focus on the screen, like the ladies
always do.
I did a search.
I thought that was Diane Muldal.
No, she is in too.
Yeah, yeah.
She's got that look anyway.
I think she's really good.
Like, yeah.
Look, I've spoken to you before about how they shoot these bridge
scenes, right?
and called Mike maneuver when we came in over Kirk's shoulder.
We zoomed straight up from the ceiling.
Oh, this God, there's loads of handheld camera work in this.
Oh, yeah.
Is it?
They can direct this bridge so brilliantly.
And TNG bridge so boringly.
Yeah, well, I think the TNG bridges are designed to be filmed, and
this is clearly designed to be filmed as well, but I think it's
just a bit more interesting.
Now, we're both watching the new effects, but when I watched...
I haven't seen the old ones.
Well, when I watched it last night.
I did it with the old effects and there is a kind of problem with
them.
And I think that they're, you know, inventive and interesting and
fun, but they do have difficulty telling this story.
And, you know, they do what they can and they don't let themselves
be restricted.
They don't sort of scale the story down to something that they can
easily achieve.
But the destruction of all of these star systems is just done in
dialogue.
And in the original broadcast version, we just see a couple of
asteroids on the screen and that's it in one shot.
To be fair to the people making this at the time, there's a big
ask in this script. okay?
There's lots of space effects.
There's the shuttle being eaten by the planet, you know, there's
lots of the 2 ships going around like, they're on a limited budget
despite the fact that we said, you know, this looks good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But what I think is good is that they just sketch the scale of the
threat in dialogue because that's all they have available to
them.
They essentially couldn't achieve a big thing carving up planets.
And also at this point, we kind of don't need to see that we need
to hear that from Decker a bit later on.
Yeah.
But I'll talk a little bit about the effects as we go because
there are just, you know, I mean, I'm going to say again, I do
think that, like you said, some of the CGI effects actually you
preferred a couple of the originals when we were talking in
January.
One, I'm going to point out when we get to it.
I think this is an episode that's executed well enough that it
deserves the CGI treatment.
It deserves the remastering. deserves to look as good as it
possibly can look.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And I don't think they spoil it.
We've said this before.
This isn't Shakespeare.
No one's deleted the original versions if you want to see them, but
if we can make this have more of a lifespan on streaming and stuff
and have people still watch it.
And certainly, you know, the version that I saw, the film was
really rough.
It hadn't been restored.
But do you understand people that say, you know, it's an
abomination?
for new special effects to be slapped onto, you know, vintage TV?
No, I think that makes you sound cool. perhaps, but like, like I
said, it's not the Bible, it's not Shakespeare and the other
versions are available if you want to watch them.
Yeah, I always feel people like that.
They always say, oh, well, I'm a bit better than watching the new
CGI.
You know, there's a bit of arrogance in there as well.
Yeah.
I mean, it's different, I think, maybe with Star Wars, where the
original version's been memory holed and it's basically impossible
to ever see it again.
I think that's a problem.
But here it's not a problem.
You can watch the other one.
Spectra of the Gun, when the pair of us were highly complimentary
about the lighting.
Once again, it's staggeringly good in this.
Do you reckon it's people, the people have worked on black and
white before or something?
I don't know.
There is, um, there is a noir-ish element, some of the scenes
later on, when the last spaces in shadow, uh, like in, in this
scene, when we cut back to Kirk. you know, one side of his face is
in shadow.
It's not saying anything, but it just makes it visually a bit more
interesting.
Whereas, you know, there's a sort of big key light in Star Trek
the next generation, everything is very evenly lit.
Even rooms with windows.
It's just very even full stop.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, as well, I think with TOS. there is just far more.
And we said this, Inspector a gun as well.
There's far more of a willingness to just go for it, you know, with
the execution as well.
Gosh, that CGF looks great.
Did you see that?
The asteroid bouncing off the hole.
That's not only the original.
So here we are.
So we're in, what's the ship called?
The constellation with the twisted girders hanging from the
scene.
Yeah, yeah.
And of course, they would have trashed it up.
There'd be rocks on the floor.
I did think of you when I was watching this, why there are no
rocks on the floor.
Yeah, in corridors.
And they've sort of turned the light down, but not very much.
And I think, you know, there's a kind of 60s pop art look that
they don't want to abandon, I guess.
Well, that's what's amazing about anything that comes out of the
60s, isn't it?
It's also bloody stylish.
Oh, look at what they've done to engineering.
This set is great.
In fact, they go back to this, don't they, in Enterprise, where
it's kind of multilevel and you're going up and down ladders and
things like this.
Well, because what you've got in the distance behind that grill
and we can't see it yet, is the warp core, which is horizontal and
goes off into the distance.
There it is behind Scotty in that shot, the red pipes.
It feels vast, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's really good.
And, you know, like the, I think the, the next generation
engineering set's a spectacular set as well, with its many layers
you know, like all of the glass floor and stuff, like it's
expensive and impressive looking.
Um, and it has practical lights and stuff like that.
You know, they get a few times.
I remember there's like a Klingon attack on the engineering in TNG
that where they're shooting through the glass with them coming
through.
And there are times when they shoot it well, but very often it's
very point and shoot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, because I think you have to light the whole thing in order
to do stuff like that.
It would take time.
They've got that staircase going down into the floor.
And obviously it's clearly only going down about half a metre.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It gives a sense of depth to the set.
Well, and it's not easy to do.
You have to build a false floor on the set or find a place where
there's a hole or whatever, I suppose.
I think my point is, is a lot of people point at TOS and say it's
cheap, and I don't think by the standards of the time, it's
extremely expensive television.
Yeah.
Yeah, it looks amazing.
Holy crap.
So this is this is Decca.
What's his name?
I can't remember.
So he wasn't the person that they originally wanted to get, but
frankly, if he's the alternative, then they lucked out.
Did you know?
Look at this.
I think that look on his face where his all slack jawed and
staring is terrifying.
I would have been absolutely frightened by that as a kid.
And it's such a weird reaction.
Like, it's not him using his acting performance to convey
something that you can sympathise with.
I've never seen anyone react to something looking like that.
It's there just to emphasise the sheer scale of what he's been
through.
And so it's not a naturalistic performance.
It's really presentational, but it's so good.
I like you so good.
Sometimes when it's presentational, it's very watchable.
Yeah, but he's, it's one of those things about...
That's hysterical, isn't it?
Yeah.
Oh, and I guess William Shadow, Shawson.
Answer me.
What was it?
You know. him there with his mouth open in that long shot as
well.
It's really, really, really upsetting. deep primordial fear, isn't
it?
that it's wrenched out of him.
But he's a little bit unpredictable, isn't it?
And I find that a bit dangerous and a bit scary.
And I'm going to make a bizarre link.
So please just go with this.
He reminds me a bit of Admiral Satay from the drumhead.
He's a man in a position or a character in a position of power
which he is in this, and he's abusing that power and is clearly
unstable within it.
And it's all in this almost contained performance.
And every time we cut back to him.
I just get the shivers, you know?
Yeah.
I think the nearest analogue is the wounded.
Who in the wounded?
The captain, is it Maxwell?
can't even remember.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Actually, that's a good choice.
I think it owes a fair amount to this.
But he's committed as well.
Like, like, we've seen performances in original trek where the
actors have said, whoa, I can have a bit of fun with this.
There's none of them here.
Yeah, I think he's extremely good.
Really, really good.
I think you'll probably find, you know, the best TOS episodes are
in around this period of season two.
Yeah, maybe right.
They've probably figured out how to do this.
How to write it and how they should be acting it, you know, and...
Oh, my God.
And this, that is so frightening.
I can't, you know, like he's beamed them down to the planet and
the way it's narrated.
He's beamed his crew down to the planet.
The machine has come along and just carved the planet up while
they're begging him for help and he can't bring them back up and
he's watching them.
It's, and look at the performance.
The performance.
Look at the performance, though.
In fact, we don't have to watch that because...
Yeah, yeah. very, very clearly how terrifying that was.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that that is more terrifying that he's on his own.
Like that's a messenger speech.
We said some fall, haven't we, what you don't see?
Because in my mind, that is a truly horrific sequence, you know.
Whereas in reality, it would be one of those stock Star Trek sets
for people going out.
In that shot, look, through the grill.
I love those grills.
It doesn't have to be there.
No, but it's a bit more interesting, isn't it?
It's like light and shadow.
Like even the way the grills came back again and again, can't
you?
I kept using him.
And it's because of that, I think this looks very filmy as well.
I mean, I know it's all shot on film.
Yeah, I don't know.
I just don't think this looks good.
Look at that.
Look at the dark, the dark set.
He's just going for it, isn't he?
He's saying now it's taken out a dozen starships.
It's destroyed planets.
So what they've done is the buildup to see in this thing is
immense.
So when we finally see it, you know, we're already absolutely...
Yeah.
With like a glowing asshole.
You and I have run from a few of those.
Walter Wilson.
Who is this man?
Why is this man hearing his pyjamas on the bridge?
No, so those people, I think that there are people who do dress
like that, who are wearing pyjamas, like, and I can't remember
why.
And I think they do it a little bit occasionally on next
generation as well.
I don't know what it is where they're non-commissioned or
something.
I don't know, write in or don't, don't write.
Did you see that bit, Lana Darl.
That Lana dialogue alone is enough.
It smashes planets to rubble.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And it feeds on them and so it never stops.
It uses them for fuel.
It's just perpetually self-sustaining.
So why would you imagine then next generation wouldn't go this far
in terms of like, you know, massive drama.
I think it tries to, and I think it aspires to, and I think maybe
it nearly does.
This bit doesn't make any sense, right?
So his projected solus projected the course and he's extrapolated
the course back and this thing comes from outside the galaxy, but
basically literally any course that you can plot, if you
extrapolate it backwards, will eventually come from outside the
galaxy, won't it?
Like unless you're going round and round.
Are you trying to bring logic to this thing again?
But, but that's awesome as well.
It makes it even more unknowable.
And this is one of the things that It's never been pinned down, has
it, in the actual show itself.
Well, this is the same machine is.
No, that's what's scary, though.
Yeah, the mystery... like spinoff material has sort of tried to do
stuff with that.
Imagine if they said, like you said to me, in discovery, right?
Imagine...
Yeah, they get always, like, what we get to shoot the weapon, it
was, you know, designed on Romulus Prime over 100s of years.
Wow, boring is that?
No, it's a giant planet eating space killer. you know, and that's
all you need to know.
Yeah, from outside the galaxy.
And so its purpose is unknowable.
And it is absolutely what Discovery Series 4 is inspired by the
DMA and Discovery Series 4.
This war, when the Borg were initially introduced in Q-Hoo.
It's absolutely this.
The unknowable objects.
You can't communicate with it.
Yeah.
It's coming after you.
You can't get out of its path, you know?
Yeah.
And eventually, you know, the more the Borg turn up, the less you
can hold, the less you can sustain that until you have some.
That's why it's good that this was a one-off.
I think.
I think if it had, you know, the doomsday machine, the sequel.
Yeah, yeah, it would have been tedious.
Well, they would have had to explain something about it.
They would have added some backstory, wouldn they?
Lighting in that shot just before then before this.
Look at that.
Look, there's a special effect shop right through the nacelles.
Yeah, one ship to another.
Originally, that's not what we are.
No, I know.
But it's a good effect all the same.
Is that sort of budget saving thing where it's kind of like, oh
it's also a constitution class ship, so we can use the same sets
and the same model and all of that.
Can we take a moment, please, to talk about Spock, who is caused a
cucumber in this episode?
Jesus Christ, he's great in this.
Oh, wait, wait.
Here's the machine. da, da, da, da, da, da.
My God.
I think it looks great.
Yeah.
And even the original, which looks a little bit more plasticky, and
it's a bit bluer, and a bit smaller in the frame. pull up the
story for this, um, was appalled when he saw the the live action
thing because he envisaged it as being like covered in weapons and
armours and things.
Yeah, but that would have been so boring.
Yeah, yeah.
The point of it is that it's unknowable.
It's an incomprehensible object.
I don't know.
I know the fact that it kind of looks manufactured, but it also
looks a little bit sort of like stone.
And yet it's clearly alive.
Yeah, my head's fighting in about 5 different directions.
I was just trying to figure out this.
I think it looks great.
And the original looks really good as well.
The one problem that they have with the original is that they
can't get the scale right, that everything on screen is roughly
the same size because they're using footage that they have lying
around, you know, they're not able to shoot all new footage.
They aren't.
Yeah, they could have done with.
Well, so, Michael, they right, just on extra days filming.
Yeah.
I don't think they that they're even capable of it.
But they do, like, they give it a good college try, and I don't
think it wrecks the story at all.
But it is really visible that the dialogue wants this machine to
be much bigger than the enterprise, but the effect shots aren't
able to achieve that.
And essentially now, like the rest of the episode is like, we know
what this thing can do.
We know the impact this thing can have and we can't get away from
it.
Yeah, it's magnificent.
It's so good.
Oh, it wouldn't be good.
They'd make sense if they didn't throw themselves across the
street dramatically. a great job of it, though.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, they probably do it for a half now.
They're throws.
Yeah, they really good.
I'm good at the next gen crew.
I'm not going to keep shit on next year.
But they always look a bit embarrassed when they've got to kind of
walk about in their chairs, you know.
Whereas TOS, again, they go for it. just lunge across the set.
Oh my goodness.
Nemoy is so, so great in this and it's Nemoy who has to confront
Decker and we have the power play.
And we had that in Corbin and White maneuver.
Remember, we had the guy going mad on the bridge and...
That was really effective as well, I thought.
Yeah, yeah.
So here we have, we have Decker taking over the ship because he
outranks them.
Why don't we have Commodores anymore?
I don't know.
I have a Commodore in Picard?
I think Commodore O in Picard, the evil one.
I think there's a commodore.
What was the episode where Pike goes on trial?
I think there's a Commodore in that story.
Yeah, there could be in the menagerie.
Do you not think it's a little bit irresponsible though?
Now, I know, if in my workplace, you know, somebody who clearly
had suffered intense trauma and, you know, was screaming in a
primordial way, I wouldn't then say, right, tomorrow, back to work
you know, and you're in charge as well, you know.
Yeah, and there is a line.
Like they do deal with that because...
You know, he just goes onto the bridge.
He's not put in charge.
Spock is in charge and then he starts to take over and because
McCoy hasn't had the chance to properly diagnose him.
He can't relieve him of duty because he wouldn't be able to
present evidence.
I believe I said that, doctor.
And he said, it's a joke.
And McCoy reacts to it and he completely deadpans it.
It's, you know, you mean to say we've been lucky.
And it's such a, that's wonderful.
This is so leaning into a lot of tear-ish cliches, but doing them
really, really well.
But the one thing that kind of isn't here is the Spock McCoy
stuff.
There's no there's no room for it here, is it?
No, in fact, both on the same side at this point as well.
You know, did you see that enormous black pad that Spock was just
holding a 2nd ago with a huge pencil that he was using to write
with?
Now, is that actually a pad or was that supposed to be a piece of
electronic equipment?
Because he's writing as if he's actually, you know, writing a
shopping list.
It's an iPad.
Yeah, iPad, iPad Pro. Yeah.
Press code.
Yeah, yeah.
And just the contrast too, between Decker, who looks hugely
dishevelled and kind of...
Yeah, with Spock who looks, who looks absolutely perfectly chill.
I'd like to imagine the makeup lady tracing all of the lines on
the actor's face because it's very stage makeup.
I think it's really effective.
I think they've used up all the stubble store.
Yeah, look at that.
Look at that close shot.
Look at the clothes shot where they've just clearly drawn in all
of the existing lines on the actors face.
It's a lovely contrast, though, isn't it?
you know, it's deliberate.
And this, so he's assuming command and we're about to get the best
eyebrow lift from Spock, I think, at this point.
And it's so wonderful having Spock telling him off without any
like, raising his voice or being angry or anything.
You know, he's actually quite harsh with him.
Yeah. for real, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Solid neutronium.
You love, you love saying those, take up other words.
Here it is.
You've been relieved of command and I think he does an eyebrow
raise and then and then stands up.
Let's see how, let's see, am I right?
Have I remembered it?
Not one line of dialogue.
Just the eyebrow. brilliant.
How could an eyebrow literally say, oh, okay.
Yeah, I do when you say it, but I'm not happy.
See, this is good Spock McCoy stuff, you know, there's the
regulations and McCoy doesn't want to listen to them.
And both of them are right.
You know, it is that thing where they both have opposing
viewpoints and they're both right.
It's a terrible idea to put Decker in command, but...
All my objections here are being covered by McCoy.
He is psychologically unstable.
You can relieve him of command.
So why doesn't he do it?
Because he hasn't run an examination and he would have to produce
proof.
That's what Spock's about to say here.
Plus, he has a...
Yeah, no.
And like he will get to the point.
Decker will get to the point where he behaves in such a way that
Spock does relieve him of command.
Spock, it's wonderful, isn't it?
It's just.
I just love how they prostrate with their hands, you know?
But he's doing that compared to the very contained spot.
Like they are a perfect double act even without Kirk there to
mediate them. always stands out because everybody on this show is
so hysterical.
Yeah, it's the 60s.
They're all on drugs.
I just see you're calm in a night of chaos, isn't he?
He's so great.
Holy crap is good.
I don't think it can be said enough.
You can see how people fell for that character.
Like, you know, oh, look how Shadow was a little bit miffed, you
know.
Oh, I think he figured he was going to be the lead and in came the
you know, the demonic Mr. Spock, the church funded production crew
were like, well, get rid of him.
And Jim was like, nope, we're going to keep him in. everyone's
going to love him.
And you know what?
instincts was right.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I think too, that Shatner gets, there's one, like, I watched
this 1st decades ago, and when we came to redo it, my memory was
that it was really great and I knew the outlines of it and stuff
but it had been a long while, I'm not super familiar with it.
But the one thing that I do remember is 2 line readings of Shatner
from near the end of the episode, which I'll point out, which I
think are just absolutely magnificent and are about why Shatner is
as great as he is.
That CGI shot there, that did rather look like a dildo hanging in
space, the doomsday machine.
That says more about the contents of my bedroom. then I probably
should.
And also as well, I was just constantly aware of, and this is
shallow, how beautiful William Shannon looked in this episode.
Like they're shooting him.
It just looks gorgeous.
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
You don't think that.
And I never thought that until kind of watching it as an adult, but
he has a very pretty face, like a very handsome.
Yeah, it's pretty, you know.
I just think he's...
I never want to object to a pretty man turning up in Star Trek, are
we?
No.
I think TOS has a pretty good batting average for that, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah.
No one is pretty as Saru, though.
That's, uh... honestly.
Oh my god.
So do you know what, right?
So the music there, when the Enterprise is going off, I went, and
then immediately it goes, da, da, da, da, da. good.
It's got its own bit of music, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Like the next generation thing is so low effort and so
indefensible.
And even something like best of both worlds, which I think is the
closest that TNG gets to this with that there's a sense of
impending doom, isn't there, after they encounter the that big
crater in the opening, you know, the pre-credits teaser.
And the music is, who is it?
It's Ron Jones, I think.
Is that right?
Do you know Dream, man?
You just see to have things spitting fire out at the Enterprise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
To know, you said to me, you know, that if you had seen this as a
child, it would have scared the terrible shit out of me.
I had a good think about that because then I thought, well, what
would have scared me about this as a child?
I don't think the doomsday machine would have scared me because I
just would have thought that was very cool.
I love spaceships and things like that.
I think it would have been Decker, seeing an adult act in such a
terrified, unpredictable way.
Yeah, that was exactly why that was exactly why I thought that.
This shot here?
Look, Kirk's eyes. eyes are lit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but everything else isn't.
It's almost like he stepped straight out of a detective thriller
isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
So this, for instance, in the, in the original where the
Enterprise is shooting phaser beams at the, at the machine is much
much more rudimentary, and you don't get the sense of the, of the
scale.
Generally speaking they look roughly the same size.
And so here it's improved.
It clearly is beyond their ambition to realise. they just kind of
go fuss out, we'll do it anyway.
Yeah.
Whereas again, I think in 90s trek, they'll go, well, what can we
do?
And that's what we'll do, you know?
Yeah, we don't want to face plant, you know.
I was trying to think of a parallel on 90s track.
I think I've got one.
Remember Silicon Avatar with the great crystalline entity in the
sky?
You know, calm down and they're on that planet, which has got a
blue filter all over it and everyone's running away.
The golf course.
And they've blown, they've blown the trees as if there's a
hurricane, but only the trees in the front are blowing.
Yeah, yeah, they have got strong enough.
Riker's dinner date gets erased.
And it is about, you know, a kind of unknowable object in the sky
that's coming along and destroying, not planets, but colonies.
It's nowhere near as effective as this.
No, no.
But I do think best of both worlds gets close to this.
But again, there's a kind of, yeah.
And it has the advantage of a long build that too.
Yeah, has the basically the trailer, which is Q-Hoo.
Yeah, which is so effective.
Yeah.
And, you know, as far back as the neutral zone, the last episode
of series one has them finding craters where colonies used to be.
So it's been on its way for 2 years or whatever.
And here you just have to compress that into the pre-credits
teaser with a few lines of dialogue about how all these star
systems have been destroyed.
I'm almost willing to bet, though, there's spinoff material books
or something like that, where they're trying to explain where this
thing comes from.
No, no, no, there are. you know, the memory alpha brigade.
They can't let it stand, but this thing is a mystery, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, here we go.
So he is committing suicide.
He's doing something that is ill advised and so, and so Spock is
relieving him of command.
Like, no, no, he's like psychologically.
You you, I think you're on board with him.
Like, he's seen everybody under his command killed and now he
wants to stop this thing no matter what. you know, as a massive
revenge.
That's amazing, isn't it?
Yeah, wow.
Now, I think what he's doing is unreasonable, but it's
understandable.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Gee, that looks good.
I just love the machine so much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Take a look at some photos of the original, because the original
is just as charming, I think.
It's a bit less scary, but still scary enough.
And it's weird in a way, you know, when you've got computer
generated imagery, you can basically create anything you can
imagine, whereas there they're constrained with what they can do
with, you know, like a bunch of tin foil and lighting gels and
they create something that looks pretty amazing, I think.
William Shatner just fell over that console arse up then.
I could never notice that.
Oh, there's Jimmy going for it engineering.
So clever, that sense of depth that they managed to.
Yeah, yeah.
Again, that's perspective.
It's not a, I can't have a notice.
There were 2 engineering crew behind him a 2nd ago on that.
They both vanished.
I can't remember.
They do go somewhere.
I don't think they just disappear from the show.
I do like this too.
Like, they've deliberately said that the bridge of the
constellation's been destroyed, and so everything's been done in
this engineering set, so we're not having to use the bridge on the
bridge.
Yeah.
But that engineering site is so impressive anyway.
Who cares?
It is really great.
Look at this.
The shit is literally being eaten up by the machine.
Yeah, yeah.
And again, scale, you know, that's the advantage that these models
have is that the machine is so much bigger than the enterprise.
It's such an exciting idea.
I'll be wearing my pants as a kid on the edge of my seat.
Scotty, you didn't think of mentioning that we have phases.
Oh, we've got tears.
I think the funniest thing in this whole episode is that the
climax when Kurt's going, now, please.
That is my line reading that I was going to mention.
I absolutely adore it.
We'll get there, but holy shit. terrified. myself laughing.
It's so good.
It's and I think it's the best thing ever.
Only Shatner could deliver that line that well.
Oh, yeah.
Oh my god.
I just want to watch this actually.
Yeah, no, we're both watching, aren't we?
And you know what?
I'm not going to lie now.
I love talking with you.
It's my favourite thing in the world.
I do miss the music.
Yeah, the music is so great.
Does have a huge sense of drama.
I mean, was it an orchestra?
They had.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like a full orchestra, because it sounds like it.
Yeah, no, no.
It's really, really good.
Do you know?
I was gone about the design.
I do love whatever's going on in these consoles on the walls.
That's a little nebula over there.
Look, Star map.
It's very strange.
Basic, but it's pretty.
Well, I mean, we weren't singing and I'm sorry, I've got to stop
going on about the next generation.
Yeah, yeah.
What was that set in 90s trek where they all just appeared and all
it was was these sort of like printed panels of barbains that all
just flashed on and off at the same time?
Yeah, yeah, like so boring.
Nothing, just shiny surface.
No, no.
And that's another thing now that they've got the money in
discovery that all of those instrument panels look incredible
because they're, you know, all holograms in the air and stuff.
It's really terrific.
And they even do that in Picard.
It's so funny though, isn't it?
Because, like, they obviously learnt their techniques here.
Oh, I suppose there's a massive gap between this and TNG.
And TV has just gone in in very different directions by then.
Yeah, I think, though, that they were right, weren't they, that
the primary method for interacting with a computer becomes your
finger on a touchscreen?
And they anticipated that.
So there are no physical buttons.
It is just a screen and they got...
The communicator is in TOS.
A bit like a mobile phone, you know?
Yeah.
Well, they flick open.
But what it turns out is they're boring.
And that's why, you know, the Delta Flyer has switches because
switches, you can see people doing things. physical, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I have a question for you.
Can you tell me the Star Trek story that Decker's son appeared
in?
So yeah, so it's Star Trek the Motion picture.
There's a character called Decker, and we mentioned him a couple
of weeks ago.
Decker and I, Leah, who are kind of proto-Riker and Troy from
that.
I think they were going to be in phase 2 as well, weren't they?
Yeah, that's where they come from.
That's right.
And so in spinoff material, I think they say that Will Decker is
Matt Decker's son.
And Gene Roddenbury went on, he basically said, he confirmed that
you know?
Yeah.
And if the great bird in the sky says it.
It must be true.
Look how he does it.
Look how he relieves him without breaking a sweat without raising
his voice.
He's got his little post-it notes there in his hand.
Leonard Nemoy half in the shadow half in the light now.
Yeah, yeah. very striking.
He's just got that face.
You know, I watched a documentary recently, right?
That was about Leonard Nimoy, as it was filmed by his son, about
his career.
And you look at Nemoy in his previous career today, man, he was so
beautiful. you know, but seeing him in things like jeans, you know
and slaps and things like that, it was so strange.
He's so good.
He's such a great character.
No, I think I win.
We've said it before. there's obviously an unfortunate sexist
leaning towards all the good stuff going to the men.
But the men they cast in TOS are brilliant.
And De Forrest Kelly as well, who he delivers a line.
You know, I will say about Bob Picardo and Alvin Shimmerman.
I think Deforest Kelly hasn't beat, you know?
Yeah.
Well, in fact, it's a shame that that D isn't in this scene to
watch, uh, to watch Spock effortlessly take over from Decca by
relieving him of command.
You know, he was there earlier on waving his arms around, saying
do something.
And Spock does do something.
This fight sequence.
Okay, it's mostly shot. handheld with the occasional long shot.
It's really good.
Yeah, yeah.
It is great, isn't it?
And, like, you just assume that he's going to lose.
And, um, you know, this is, this is what I've said.
I've been myself with what he does now then.
Oh, yeah, they think absolutely.
Yeah.
If he thought, I think it would be improved a little bit if he
thought that he had a shot at damaging the weapon, but he does
just seem to be flying into the, you know, like he doesn't quite
redeem himself, he does just kind of kill himself.
Is he just committing suicide?
I think that the episode, like, as we've watched these things
we've given reading on how characters behave.
I think this episode characterises him as a victim rather than a
villain throughout, even when he's behaving appallingly.
Yeah, and they say that they're going to say that he died in the
course of doing his duty and their right to do that because they
understand what he's done and what he's gone through.
And the fact that he continues to take the same course of action
after he's relieved of duty, he's relieved of duty but still heads
a ship into the machine. you know, just shows that he wasn't just
being a reckless commander, he really thought this was the right
thing to do.
Now, you have the fabric.
That ship looks all within the cells torn apart.
There is an incredible model shot in the original...
Oh, the shuttle leaving the enterprise.
Of the shuttle leaving the enterprise.
So the shot off the shuttle bay.
It's a miniature shot and it is stunningly beautiful.
There's elements of the design that remains.
Do we follow the shutter as it's going out then?
It's not quite as good as that, but we do see the shuttle rise and
head off into the distance.
And so it's a less complex shot than what eventually makes it to
air here in the remastered version.
There's a shut box.
Yeah.
I mean, that's pretty cool.
The way it heals as it comes up.
Yeah, the original one didn't do that.
No, the original one is much more symmetrical.
It is actually shot with you looking straight on out of the
shuttle bay.
It's still the same basic design, but it's beautiful.
It's absolutely stunning.
I think these new effect shots are really, really good though.
I'm a fan.
I am a fan of them.
And they did it to next gen as well.
Yeah, and it's certainly not work, you know, we shouldn't
undersell what they could achieve. what they what they tried to
achieve.
You know, it's like it's like early Doctor Who.
They had the ambition.
And boy, did they, you know, have a good snap again?
But I think that perhaps the best argument against the new special
effects is that it disrespects the work of all of these dedicated
TV people.
Well, no, but I do think that that's I think that's a reasonable
argument.
Yeah.
I think it is a reasonable argument.
And I certainly feel that with that model shot, which I think was
extraordinary and really, very beautiful, and I'm sorry, it's not
in it.
Like, you know, if there's a way...
I know. of making this look good, then I agree.
Why would we do that?
No, exactly right.
Yeah.
Oh, you feel so sorry for it there.
Yeah. ever since I killed my crew.
Yeah, wow.
Camera is right in his face.
That actor is not afraid of that camera is he?
I think too, maybe the fact, the description of what happened to
his crew, I would have been terrified by that as a child, because
I think it's conceptually you could understand it as a child. not
complicated and it's conceptually terrifying, I think, if him
sitting there helplessly listening to them, you know.
But also, I mean, God, if the cameras came...
But the idea of like flying into the unknown, you know?
With that buildup of music, it's like, da, da, da.
It's it is terrifying.
Do you know what?
I said to you before that, um, Random trek.
What's his name?
Scott McNulty says that every episode of TOS basically could lose
10 minutes.
Not this much.
Not true.
This is this is a tight script, you know?
Yeah, there's enough happening here.
No.
There's a great, again, the special effects here on Decker's face
have been updated.
We're about to get that shop.
And again, I think this is terrifying, this performance.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And particularly in the original episode, you don't have the
advantage of this incredible, impressive shot.
They've done things to that. deliver space, you know?
that's not original.
No, but you're thinking like, what the hell is happening to him?
Yeah.
We never know.
Yeah, you do get that from the...
I mean, it could be that he's actually transported inside and
there's Clint Howard's character handing out Matronia.
Yeah, could be.
Never know.
Yeah, could be.
Tron your party.
And now the Trunya.
I mean, I think, aside from the climax, that's the high point of
the episode here.
Yeah, that's amazing.
It's just amazing.
And again, look at Kirk.
Look at Kirk.
Do you know what it's doing?
It's actually making, and I don't think Star Trek does this
anywhere near as often as they should, it makes being out in space
really scary.
What about that?
I think that line is beautiful.
May I console you on the death of your friend?
Like Spock saying that to Kirk?
I think he's just beautiful.
He says is regrettable that he died for nothing.
But I think actually he couldn't go on living. that's right. what
he did. exactly it.
Yeah.
And that's why he committed suicide.
Yeah, he tries to make it better by getting it right. this time
with a new crew. when he can't do that because Spock relieves him
of duty, then he just, you know, yeah.
You know what I think next Gem would do.
I think they would tell a similar-ish story.
Maybe the scale would be a little less epic, but I don't think
they'd have, like, the intense, like, Decker's character.
I think it would just be the problem of the doomsday machine and
lots of scenes in engineering with data enjoyed again.
How are we going to bring this thing down?
We take the bubble.
Well, except except that Star Trek, the Next Generation, does do
the thing where you have the guest, the guest character come on.
Probably not as often as it should, though, given there's 179
episodes.
But it doesn't, a reasonable amount of, you know, like, such
amount of time.
We mentioned drumhead.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it is a thing that they do.
And I think it often works really well.
And here, I think...
The one in the one in Silicon Abbas hole is a bit wooden.
I think.
I actually quite like her.
I think that's, I don't know that it's a brilliant performance, but
I actually don't mind that episode at all.
Do you remember when Admiral Satay goes, I brought down better...
So great.
Gene Simmons talking techno Babble is absolutely one of my
favourite things that Star Trek has ever brought to me. wonderful.
That's true.
She's really great in it.
Really properly good.
So now we've got 8 minutes. to bring this to a climax now.
Yeah, so those 2 engineering people have now been beamed back
aboard.
It's so funny, this 32nd delay device.
Can you do a 32nd delay device?
And then everyone goes, well, it's a bit tight, you know, and the
transporters might not work.
And he doesn't go, well, okay, let's make it a minute.
Yeah, like a minute, 90 seconds.
It doesn't really matter.
Minute's not gonna make any difference.
No worry, no.
They're trying to add some in-built suspense into the climax
alright?
Cut on some slack.
My God.
Dramatic zoo on Leonard Nemoy.
But Jim, you'll be killed.
You be killed.
But I also think too, this is something that Star Trek the Next
Generation does really effortlessly, but that Star Trek doesn't
necessarily do it, which is the idea that you can just have normal
conversations between characters who are in completely different
locations and you forget how weird that is.
And you don't need them to hold phones.
I mean, he's holding the communicator, but in Star Trek, the next
generation.
People in engineering routinely just have conversations with
people on the bridge.
And I guess that having these 2 locations here where they're just
constantly conversing.
They're constantly in contact made it seem more like a next
generation episode to me.
You said in the next generation, one of the joys of watching those
episodes is that you're watching people be highly competent at
their jobs, but there is a difference here.
I don't know.
It feels like it's a bit more edgy and it's a bit more last minute
and they're all a bit braver and, you know, Kirk throws himself
right into the heart of the action and it's him that's facing the
Picard wouldn't be doing that.
No, well, I mean, they're almost never quite as up against the
kind of, do you know what I mean?
Like it's never quite as urgent as that.
This is still space problems, jury rigging things, fixing things
doing space things, and...
The stakes are higher, I think.
Because I think if we don't stop this thing, well, it's going to
go off munching another load of planets could be Earth next.
Well, Rygel, they mentioned Rygel.
So they talk about the most populated place in the galaxy and
obviously when...
I don't recall.
I'm sure we do an enterprise, probably.
So this is a Jeffrey's tube.
It's not, is it?
Yeah, that's a Jeffreys tube.
And Jeffrey's tubes aren't YouTube.
Yeah.
So they're not referred to it in to it as that in dialogue in TOS
but they're known as that because they were designed by the
designer who I want to call Matt Jeffries, but I could be wrong
about that.
And then the name is now used in dialogue for any of the tubes
like that in a Starfleet ship.
So that's the original Jeffreys tube there with Scotty trying to
fix the whatever that feeds into the transporter.
You know what the Voyager version of this was, don't you?
The Omega directive.
It was just a tiny little particle that could potentially destroy
the entire universe.
Yes, that's right.
Compared to this planet eating machine.
Well, that's the, that's more about the...
I think we should be honest.
There ain't nothing subtle about this.
No, no, I don't care.
Oh my god.
We are about to get up to the that Shatner line reading, which is
just the most perfect thing in the whole world.
It is absolutely laugh out loud funny.
Most look straight out the camera and goes, now, please.
He's sort of half smiling as well, like, this is incredibly
tense.
He's doing a fantastic job.
He's not camping it up.
He's not making fun of it when he does it like this when he gives
a comic line reading.
He's not undermining the tension in the scene.
He's not mugging to camera, but it's really, really good.
It's hilariously funny.
It adds a little bit of character.
It's a pretty tense moment.
It's awesome.
It's such a strange choice.
I have seen this done in other things, you know, when you're in
the climax and it's like, ah, you know, in a 2nd now.
Gentlemen, beam me aboard. 20 seconds, my friend, my God.
And look, the Enterprise is going straight into the path of the
doomsday machine.
The transporter pad is blowing up all over the place.
I mean it's all happening.
And I'll tell you now that orchestra is going fucking crazy right
now.
Shutter looking at the thing.
Just how he underplays it.
We've talked about him chewing the scenery, but he's so
underplaying it.
It's so magical.
13.
Gentlemen, I said, you should be me a board.
Nine, eight, seven.
Mr. Scott.
Oh my god, he's still there at four.
Oh my god, look at that Charlie Enprise silhouetted by the
machine.
Amazing Isn't that the Constitution?
Not the Enterprise.
No, the constellation.
Sorry, constellation.
There we go.
It's having a giant vomit announced dead.
It really doesn't remind me of you.
Yeah, that probe in Star Trek, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Does remind me of that.
No, I think I think they're absolutely roofing on that.
Except this isn't a comedy yomp with George and Gracie, is it?
No.
Well, that's my...
When we were one of the films, if we don't get that one, I'll be
very disappointed.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we could just roll until we do get that one.
And people would call that cheating, you know.
It's still part of the rules.
The rules publish.
Sorry for the doctor 2 reference.
It does look a bit like a cyber map floating through space now
doesn't it?
So it looks a bit less segmented the original model.
And the original model seems more visibly dead.
I don't know whether they repainted or substituted with a new one
but it sells it as dead in a way that maybe this one doesn't quite
so much.
You know what?
It's so impressive about this episode, right?
is B for B. They got every moment, like perfect. and it would so
easily for something to go wrong.
The music was shit.
The performance of Decca wasn't right.
Shatner was playing it up.
I know, they threw in a comedy subplot.
Although here is a here is a slightly over egg.
Christian was paying attention.
Yeah.
So by the way, kids at home, this is an analogue for the H bomb.
This comes straight out of Sabrina, the teenage witch, anyway, when
she looks straight out of the audience. that's right Does it end
on a joke?
can't remember.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah, there it is.
That the joke.
It's a crap joke as well.
Do we get one quite sufficient?
There he is.
No, we don't get the musical thing, but we do get a little crappy
smirk from Shatner to end the episode.
And now we're off on other adventures.
I think I can answer your question now then, as to why, like, we
think this is so good compared to other space problem episodes, is
I just think it is flawlessly executed.
The whole thing.
It's really well done.
Nothing goes wrong in this one.
No, I don't think anything does.
And I think there's a good guest performance, like a really
properly good guest performance, a comprehensible situation.
Simple.
Yeah. very dramatic.
And it still is space problems.
You know, I just think that maybe the scale of it and the
potential consequences make a difference.
And the countdown and stuff.
But I think the space problems thing is not a flaw.
It's a strength, this episode.
And because they build up a threat as something so kind of chaotic
and so dangerous.
If they don't get this right, there are massive consequences. not
only is it about people being competent, they have to be competent
at their jobs in this, otherwise. solar system is doomed.
Yeah, yeah, that's Rigel.
Do you know those Rigelians?
I want to say, because last week, I looked at the next generation
drew back an arrow and pierced its heart.
This week, I want to do the same thing, but I've got to say, doing
this with you on Titled Star Trek project.
I don't think I have ever appreciated how good TOS can be. at its
best.
You know, I think I actually, I think I wrote it off a little bit
as being, you know, old-fashioned too long, hammy.
Yeah.
But actually, the episodes that we've covered so far, Spectra of
the Gun, Dune Stay Machine, Corman White maneuver, they've been
really, really great episodes of TV and Spock's playing.
Yeah, obviously I was leaving that one up.
We laughed a lot during that one as well.
Yeah, it was also boring though.
Yeah, look, I think that this version of Star Trek can face plant
and can do it spectacularly, and there are often episodes that are
really not very good, but do you not think that when the next
generation is bland, it's really tedious.
When TOS is bland, it's still terrific fun.
I think that there's a problematic relationship between NextGen
and TOS.
And I think you can see it in the insistence that next generation
has no Vulcans in it for a while.
Like they, you know.
And I think, that it is that it really, really wants to
differentiate itself from its parent show and in a way it's kind
of embarrassed by the parent show.
That's the weird thing, though.
I think you're right.
It is a little bit humiliated about how campy that is.
Yeah.
But the weird result is by treating it also seriously, and there's
still an absurd situations.
It's even more embarrassing.
First season, next generation is humiliating to watch.
Yeah, it's not like they that by kind of trying to distance
themselves from the original series they managed to create
flawlessly grown up and sensible drama.
They were looking at, let there be our last battlefield and say
well, that's very embarrassing.
Half black, half, white faces.
We're going to do Planet of the African people instead.
Oh my God, you know, like, I know which one I'd rather watch.
Yeah.
And I think that Deep Space 9 is not that, like Deep Space 9 loves
original Trek and absolutely references it.
It's wrong and Ira band.
Massive fans.
And so they're always drinking.
In one episode.
Odo goes into the bar when he's Curzon Dax.
When you know when Jadz does that, Rachel.
And he goes into the bar and goes, 2 tronions, please.
And they do references like that all the time to TOS.
Well, and, you know, like they've got the original Cleons back as
sort of guest characters and stuff like that.
So I think that they're that they're more into it. trials and
tribulations Yeah, of course.
The ultimate love layers, TOS.
Yeah.
And then and then I think, you know, enterprise has a weird
relationship with with TOS where it starts season.
Yeah.
Well, I think it just starts off as a sequel to 1st contact and
that Berman and Braga aren't really interested in original Star
Trek.
And then when Manikoto takes over and no one gives a shit anymore
and they probably cancelled.
They do they do that 2 part um mirror universe episode and then
deck everyone out in original series costume.
It's amazing.
Good.
And then like you say, Kurtzman Trek just loves all of Star Trek.
And they especially love the original series.
They go back to Talos 4, whatever it's called.
Yeah, yeah.
The cage. you know, in a fantastic episode.
Yeah.
And I think that there's no way that the DMA isn't inspired by the
Doomsday machine.
So, and again, they're halfway through that season, people were
saying, is it the doomsday machine?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And it's clearly not, but it's clearly inspired by it.
And, you know, the big central thing at the end of series 4 is
that this thing is heading towards Earth and Navarre and that's
the same problem that we're experiencing here with a doomsday
machine heading towards Rygel and we have a, like, countdown and
stuff.
And I think Discovery Series 4 is really effective and maybe the
best season so far.
And it definitely lifts ideas from this.
So, swinging it back to the doomsday machine, then, yeah.
I'm going to do a definitive answer to your question now.
The reason why this is so good compared to others is it's not
contend to simply be, you know, a passable space procedural, which
it could have been.
It's aspiring to be bloody good TV and it is.
Yeah All right, it's time for us to choose our next episode, and
I'm here at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and I
have my finger hovering over the button, and I have no stipulation
for the upcoming episode, except that it is going to be animated.
Oh, what?
You're going...
Oh, it's lower decks or the animated series.
Or prodigy.
Oh, how interesting.
We haven't done that before.
I mean, I'm going to say one, Pino.
I don't imagine it's gonna be better than what we've watched
today.
No.
Roll it and we'll see.
We'll see what happens.
The jihad, your random Star Trek, the animated series, episode is
the jihad, nearly no way that's not going to be racist, but I
haven't the faintest idea what it is.
Oh dear.
No idea.
All right, let's roll it again.
Okay.
Maybe this wasn't such a good idea.
Time amuck. we done that?
Yeah, that's what we did.
That's right.
That's never happened before.
We've actually never rolled one before that we've already done.
We should just go with it and do an animated series episode.
We've got to do it at some point, all right?
Yeah.
Okay, your random Star Trek, the animated series, episode is the
time trap, season one, episode 12.
The time travel?
That sounds amazing.
You know, I think calls in this episode.
Oh, you do not.
You just looked it up on Memory Alpha.
And then I edited that bit out.
We had no idea.
Excuse me, I think you're happy to edit these episodes to make
yourself look really clever.
Well, no, I did admit to editing out myself looking. looking
something up.
Something like fairly reasonable.
They're off into an unknown region of space that has the word.
The Delphic expanse.
Delta the Delta Quadrant, the Delta Square.
Delta Triangle.
Yeah.
Well, because the Bermuda Triangle was huge in the 70s when this
was out.
So this is a space Bermuda triangle, I think.
And we have, you know, who knows?
It's probably going to be really terrible but let's do it.
I think is going to be incredible.
It's the animated series.
Are they shorter episodes?
Yeah, they're about 30 minutes.
Oh, okay.
So a bit like...
Lower decks and...
Yeah, so lower decks and prodigy tend to come in at about 25
minutes, you know, which is a normal half hour episode length, you
know, with ads or whatever.
So this is slightly longer than that.
And it is simpler.
It is pitched at children, I think.
And we don't think that's a bad thing.
I think it will be interesting to contrast the animated series
pitch to children and prodigy, pitch of children and see what they
were going for in those 2 different eras.
One thing I can predict is we're probably going to laugh a lot.
Yeah, let's hope so.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisran, and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 12th of April, 2022 and released
on the 29th of April.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the animated series, The
Time Track.