WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:00:33

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back on the original series this week and both of us

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have now watched The Doomsday Machine.

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What did you think of it?

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This was Spec fucking Tacula.

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It's really good, isn't it?

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This is one of the best episodes of Star Trek.

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I swear to God.

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Amazingly good.

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I had seen it before and I did have some memories of it.

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And I think last week I say that it had some sort of more modern

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trek sensibilities and you can certainly see them doing things

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that you associate with 90s trek than you don't necessarily

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associate with the original series, but it just does great

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original series things too, I think.

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This had an intensity and a suspense to it that most other Star

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Trek shows would weep to have.

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I'm telling you.

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And it was unrelenting.

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Like the momentum of drama that builds up leading up to the

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climax.

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I was like, there, again, like...

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I'm actually struggling to kind of put my finger on why I think

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it's so great.

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And I think there's a combination of a really, really strong guest

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performance.

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Yes, definitely.

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Good performances from the regulars, particularly Nimoy and

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Shatner.

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No, stunningly good.

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I think Shatner and Nemoy are both brilliant.

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I think Duhan does a great job in this as well.

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Yeah, for once.

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And um, But it is still a space procedural.

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It's still, you know, competent people solving space problems.

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Well, it absolutely is, but it's about a machine that destroys

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entire planets.

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I mean, that's on a scale that a lot of Star Trek. are dealing

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with, you know.

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And you and me said off mic, really the only time the next

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generation aspired to be this intense was best to both worlds.

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And what were they doing in that?

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scooping great colonies off of planets and threatening the earth

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you know?

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Like Star Trek is very, the space mysteries that we deal with.

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They're usually like on the level of power play, aren't they?

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Little twinklebell lights going into people and taking them over

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and that's your problem.

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This is big.

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This is something that the show has gone back to, and like 2 of

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the films, like one and 4, both have giant machines heading

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towards Earth that we don't know what they're doing.

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So we do go back here.

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Um, but I think there's, there's just so little known about

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whatever this machine is and what its purpose is and stuff, that

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that works really well.

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It's sort of an ill-defined threat.

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And the closest parallel I can think of is Discovery series 4

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which I think takes some inspiration from this episode with a

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DMA.

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I couldn't possibly talk about Discovery season 4 because I've not

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watched it yet.

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Yeah, you've told me how good it is and I've heard some good

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reviews as well. get around to it.

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I thought there were some parallels with the early stages of the

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cord mite maneuver because that is also an unknowable, but that's

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a bit more opaque, isn't it?

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It's a bit more, we don't really know what that's all about.

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This is something that destroys starships, destroys planets, you

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know, if you get in this thing's way, you're in trouble.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I just think it's, I don't know.

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There's a simplicity to it.

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We said last week that Star Trek, the original series has the

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advantage and Star Trek, the Next Generation, to some extent, have

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the advantage of being able to do things for the 1st time.

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So this doesn't feel like anything else, it's sort of warmed

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over.

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This is the 1st time we've done giant Planet Killer.

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The captain who's lost his entire crew.

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And all of that sort of stuff is new.

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And I think that helps.

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It does.

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Also, there's no flabbiness at all.

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There's no B plot.

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I mean, I don't think TOS really did B plots.

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That that came along in 90s track, but really there's none of like

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the, you know, the quirky fun moments that you're getting a lot of

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tier wets episodes kind of pad out the hour.

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This is very focussed on the story that is telling.

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I think there are fun moments in it.

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Oh, absolutely.

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But they kind of, it's focussed.

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That's what I'm saying.

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It's focussed on the problem throughout.

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Um, and I think because you have like that human avatar, you have

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um, Decca, who has already experienced the horror of this thing as

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well.

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Like you have a massive emotional involvement in this too.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And that performance is just so intense and so real.

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I was really impressed.

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I also think what's interesting.

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This sounds weird, but I think it's interesting that we have kind

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of 2 separate locations as well.

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We've got the constellation and we've got the enterprise and you

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know, then eventually we have the shuttle and just the fact that

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Kirk and Scotty are on the constellation communicating

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coordinating this thing from ship to ship.

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I think, there's something interesting.

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There's something Star Trek, the Next Generation about that.

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It sounds really trivial, but it makes them seem like they're

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working together to solve a giant space problem in a really

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competent way, and I really like that.

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You know, just coming across some like unknowable, like, oh, look

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at the probe in Star Trek 4, for goodness sakes, and things like

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that.

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But it feels very next gen that, like coming across some flotsam

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that's, you know, dreadnaught, the missile in that and, you know

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in episodes like that.

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And also using the regular sets to play another environment, like

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trashing the regular set.

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Oh, that was really clever.

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And they look really, you know, it's not too over the top because

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when they do it in Knight's track.

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Yeah, it's not open to dry ice. all the girders are everywhere.

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Turn the lights down. satellite on that, isn't it?

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And in fact, the other thing about this, that was, it's just

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incredibly well executed.

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I was very aware of how crafted the direction was.

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Whereas, you know, we've watched a ton of 90s straight where we

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were saying, well, this is a bit lazy, actually.

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This isn't like, you know, the directors, they're putting out

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competent work, but they're not kind of really looking to

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impress.

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Whereas this was directed by Mark Daniels, who unbelievably also

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directed Spock's brain.

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Yeah, I think we said at the time that Spock's brain was what kind

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of did him in.

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That's where he said fuck it, I'm not going to be involved in this

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nonsense.

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I'm not making this.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, I threw a bit of trivia you earlier when I said, he

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basically won a bet, that he could complete this in 5 days when

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the usual shooting schedule was six.

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And something this good was made in a limited amount of time kudos

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to him.

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Yeah.

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No, it's really, it's really, really something, isn't it?

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The other thing is to the music, which, oh, great.

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It's so good.

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I was a bit worried because I was watching at 4 in the morning and

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it's only the person I live with complains when the TV is a bit

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loud and that music kept getting louder and louder.

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Yeah, where's the remote?

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I need to turn this thing down.

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But you know, I keep using the word intense.

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That music is really intense, isn't it?

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And it's almost like, um, what is it, you say, it's almost like

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it's digetic because every time the machine every time the machine

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appears, like, brings an orchestra with it.

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How could I possibly scare the shower every more?

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you know?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's it just makes the decision in 90s trek to turn the

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music into just kind of wallpaper.

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Absolutely baffling because the music is so important.

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Burman said, didn't he?

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And those early seasons of TNG, the music is, I mean, it's not

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amazing.

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But it's loud and apparent.

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Remember best of both worlds.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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There's like all of the weird electric chorus that they do and

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things like that.

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Like it's, but it's kind of after that when Bourbon goes.

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No, no, that's, we need to be a bit more...

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Yeah.

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It's like it's melodrama.

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It's science fiction.

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Would you stop directing them scoring these episodes, please?

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Thank you very much.

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That's it.

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Stop making it good.

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All right.

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Well, we did that last week.

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All right, what do you think?

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Should we just launch straight in?

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I think this is good.

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I cannot wait to watch this.

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I cannot wait.

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And I think for once, everybody, I know you're all listening to

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this in your podcast catches.

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Watch it along with us.

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This is good enough to watch along with this commentary. really

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great.

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All right, I'll count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Do you know, um, James Duhan, who cites this as the best episode

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of the original series.

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His favourite.

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Dorothy Fontana, DC Montana.

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She hated it.

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She said it was the worst episode of the original series.

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I'm wondering what she was watching, you know?

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Yeah.

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So Ahura's got the week off and we have Lieutenant...

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Beehive hairdo.

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Yeah, look, and she gets soft focus on the screen, like the ladies

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always do.

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I did a search.

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I thought that was Diane Muldal.

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No, she is in too.

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Yeah, yeah.

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She's got that look anyway.

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I think she's really good.

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Like, yeah.

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Look, I've spoken to you before about how they shoot these bridge

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scenes, right?

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and called Mike maneuver when we came in over Kirk's shoulder.

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We zoomed straight up from the ceiling.

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Oh, this God, there's loads of handheld camera work in this.

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Oh, yeah.

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Is it?

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They can direct this bridge so brilliantly.

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And TNG bridge so boringly.

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Yeah, well, I think the TNG bridges are designed to be filmed, and

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this is clearly designed to be filmed as well, but I think it's

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just a bit more interesting.

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Now, we're both watching the new effects, but when I watched...

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I haven't seen the old ones.

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Well, when I watched it last night.

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I did it with the old effects and there is a kind of problem with

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them.

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And I think that they're, you know, inventive and interesting and

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fun, but they do have difficulty telling this story.

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And, you know, they do what they can and they don't let themselves

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be restricted.

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They don't sort of scale the story down to something that they can

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easily achieve.

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But the destruction of all of these star systems is just done in

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dialogue.

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And in the original broadcast version, we just see a couple of

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asteroids on the screen and that's it in one shot.

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To be fair to the people making this at the time, there's a big

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ask in this script. okay?

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There's lots of space effects.

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There's the shuttle being eaten by the planet, you know, there's

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lots of the 2 ships going around like, they're on a limited budget

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despite the fact that we said, you know, this looks good.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But what I think is good is that they just sketch the scale of the

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threat in dialogue because that's all they have available to

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00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:51.720
them.

256
00:11:51.779 --> 00:11:56.700
They essentially couldn't achieve a big thing carving up planets.

257
00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:00.419
And also at this point, we kind of don't need to see that we need

258
00:12:00.419 --> 00:12:02.639
to hear that from Decker a bit later on.

259
00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:03.720
Yeah.

260
00:12:03.779 --> 00:12:04.559
Yeah.

261
00:12:04.620 --> 00:12:08.039
But I'll talk a little bit about the effects as we go because

262
00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:11.879
there are just, you know, I mean, I'm going to say again, I do

263
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:16.440
think that, like you said, some of the CGI effects actually you

264
00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.200
preferred a couple of the originals when we were talking in

265
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:19.679
January.

266
00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:22.620
One, I'm going to point out when we get to it.

267
00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:27.419
I think this is an episode that's executed well enough that it

268
00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:29.220
deserves the CGI treatment.

269
00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.820
It deserves the remastering. deserves to look as good as it

270
00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:33.539
possibly can look.

271
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:34.980
Yeah, I agree.

272
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:35.580
I agree.

273
00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.980
And I don't think they spoil it.

274
00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:38.759
We've said this before.

275
00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:40.019
This isn't Shakespeare.

276
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.620
No one's deleted the original versions if you want to see them, but

277
00:12:43.620 --> 00:12:48.360
if we can make this have more of a lifespan on streaming and stuff

278
00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.519
and have people still watch it.

279
00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:55.799
And certainly, you know, the version that I saw, the film was

280
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:56.580
really rough.

281
00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:57.720
It hadn't been restored.

282
00:12:57.779 --> 00:13:02.340
But do you understand people that say, you know, it's an

283
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:03.179
abomination?

284
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.500
for new special effects to be slapped onto, you know, vintage TV?

285
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:15.120
No, I think that makes you sound cool. perhaps, but like, like I

286
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:19.320
said, it's not the Bible, it's not Shakespeare and the other

287
00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:21.659
versions are available if you want to watch them.

288
00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.059
Yeah, I always feel people like that.

289
00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:27.000
They always say, oh, well, I'm a bit better than watching the new

290
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:27.720
CGI.

291
00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:30.179
You know, there's a bit of arrogance in there as well.

292
00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:30.960
Yeah.

293
00:13:31.019 --> 00:13:33.779
I mean, it's different, I think, maybe with Star Wars, where the

294
00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:36.960
original version's been memory holed and it's basically impossible

295
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:38.100
to ever see it again.

296
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:39.120
I think that's a problem.

297
00:13:39.179 --> 00:13:40.860
But here it's not a problem.

298
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:42.659
You can watch the other one.

299
00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:46.440
Spectra of the Gun, when the pair of us were highly complimentary

300
00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:47.220
about the lighting.

301
00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.899
Once again, it's staggeringly good in this.

302
00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:55.980
Do you reckon it's people, the people have worked on black and

303
00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.360
white before or something?

304
00:13:57.419 --> 00:13:59.159
I don't know.

305
00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:03.899
There is, um, there is a noir-ish element, some of the scenes

306
00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:08.700
later on, when the last spaces in shadow, uh, like in, in this

307
00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:13.139
scene, when we cut back to Kirk. you know, one side of his face is

308
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:13.740
in shadow.

309
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.620
It's not saying anything, but it just makes it visually a bit more

310
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:17.100
interesting.

311
00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:22.259
Whereas, you know, there's a sort of big key light in Star Trek

312
00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:25.500
the next generation, everything is very evenly lit.

313
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:30.600
Even rooms with windows.

314
00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:34.080
It's just very even full stop.

315
00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:35.100
Yeah, yeah.

316
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:39.059
Well, as well, I think with TOS. there is just far more.

317
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:40.740
And we said this, Inspector a gun as well.

318
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:45.240
There's far more of a willingness to just go for it, you know, with

319
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.320
the execution as well.

320
00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:49.019
Gosh, that CGF looks great.

321
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:50.100
Did you see that?

322
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.220
The asteroid bouncing off the hole.

323
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.539
That's not only the original.

324
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:55.440
So here we are.

325
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:56.700
So we're in, what's the ship called?

326
00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:00.659
The constellation with the twisted girders hanging from the

327
00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:01.019
scene.

328
00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:01.980
Yeah, yeah.

329
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:03.360
And of course, they would have trashed it up.

330
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:04.440
There'd be rocks on the floor.

331
00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:06.840
I did think of you when I was watching this, why there are no

332
00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:07.620
rocks on the floor.

333
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.600
Yeah, in corridors.

334
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.039
And they've sort of turned the light down, but not very much.

335
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:17.340
And I think, you know, there's a kind of 60s pop art look that

336
00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:19.019
they don't want to abandon, I guess.

337
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:22.980
Well, that's what's amazing about anything that comes out of the

338
00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:24.059
60s, isn't it?

339
00:15:24.059 --> 00:15:25.500
It's also bloody stylish.

340
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.679
Oh, look at what they've done to engineering.

341
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:30.059
This set is great.

342
00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:34.860
In fact, they go back to this, don't they, in Enterprise, where

343
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:37.620
it's kind of multilevel and you're going up and down ladders and

344
00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:37.980
things like this.

345
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:41.100
Well, because what you've got in the distance behind that grill

346
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:45.240
and we can't see it yet, is the warp core, which is horizontal and

347
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:46.500
goes off into the distance.

348
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.080
There it is behind Scotty in that shot, the red pipes.

349
00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:50.940
It feels vast, doesn't it?

350
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:51.600
Yeah, yeah.

351
00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:52.919
I think it's really good.

352
00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:56.279
And, you know, like the, I think the, the next generation

353
00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:01.379
engineering set's a spectacular set as well, with its many layers

354
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:04.440
you know, like all of the glass floor and stuff, like it's

355
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:05.940
expensive and impressive looking.

356
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.240
Um, and it has practical lights and stuff like that.

357
00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:11.220
You know, they get a few times.

358
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.299
I remember there's like a Klingon attack on the engineering in TNG

359
00:16:15.299 --> 00:16:17.820
that where they're shooting through the glass with them coming

360
00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:18.299
through.

361
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.360
And there are times when they shoot it well, but very often it's

362
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.139
very point and shoot.

363
00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:23.580
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

364
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:25.679
Well, because I think you have to light the whole thing in order

365
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:26.639
to do stuff like that.

366
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:27.360
It would take time.

367
00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:31.080
They've got that staircase going down into the floor.

368
00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:33.720
And obviously it's clearly only going down about half a metre.

369
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:34.620
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

370
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:36.600
It gives a sense of depth to the set.

371
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.460
Well, and it's not easy to do.

372
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.519
You have to build a false floor on the set or find a place where

373
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.200
there's a hole or whatever, I suppose.

374
00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:47.220
I think my point is, is a lot of people point at TOS and say it's

375
00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:50.820
cheap, and I don't think by the standards of the time, it's

376
00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:52.259
extremely expensive television.

377
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:52.980
Yeah.

378
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.500
Yeah, it looks amazing.

379
00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:56.399
Holy crap.

380
00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:59.100
So this is this is Decca.

381
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:01.379
What's his name?

382
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:02.519
I can't remember.

383
00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:06.240
So he wasn't the person that they originally wanted to get, but

384
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.180
frankly, if he's the alternative, then they lucked out.

385
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:09.839
Did you know?

386
00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:11.039
Look at this.

387
00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:13.920
I think that look on his face where his all slack jawed and

388
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:15.599
staring is terrifying.

389
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:19.019
I would have been absolutely frightened by that as a kid.

390
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:20.940
And it's such a weird reaction.

391
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.799
Like, it's not him using his acting performance to convey

392
00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:29.819
something that you can sympathise with.

393
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.759
I've never seen anyone react to something looking like that.

394
00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:37.019
It's there just to emphasise the sheer scale of what he's been

395
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:37.440
through.

396
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.140
And so it's not a naturalistic performance.

397
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.359
It's really presentational, but it's so good.

398
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.400
I like you so good.

399
00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:46.680
Sometimes when it's presentational, it's very watchable.

400
00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:51.059
Yeah, but he's, it's one of those things about...

401
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.940
That's hysterical, isn't it?

402
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:54.480
Yeah.

403
00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.460
Oh, and I guess William Shadow, Shawson.

404
00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:57.059
Answer me.

405
00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:57.839
What was it?

406
00:17:57.900 --> 00:18:01.619
You know. him there with his mouth open in that long shot as

407
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:01.859
well.

408
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:08.099
It's really, really, really upsetting. deep primordial fear, isn't

409
00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:08.220
it?

410
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:09.359
that it's wrenched out of him.

411
00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:12.599
But he's a little bit unpredictable, isn't it?

412
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.599
And I find that a bit dangerous and a bit scary.

413
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:18.000
And I'm going to make a bizarre link.

414
00:18:18.059 --> 00:18:19.019
So please just go with this.

415
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:23.759
He reminds me a bit of Admiral Satay from the drumhead.

416
00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:28.259
He's a man in a position or a character in a position of power

417
00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:32.460
which he is in this, and he's abusing that power and is clearly

418
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:33.660
unstable within it.

419
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.559
And it's all in this almost contained performance.

420
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:40.319
And every time we cut back to him.

421
00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.180
I just get the shivers, you know?

422
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:42.900
Yeah.

423
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.619
I think the nearest analogue is the wounded.

424
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:49.859
Who in the wounded?

425
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:52.079
The captain, is it Maxwell?

426
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:52.980
can't even remember.

427
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:54.359
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

428
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:55.619
Actually, that's a good choice.

429
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.299
I think it owes a fair amount to this.

430
00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.400
But he's committed as well.

431
00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:04.380
Like, like, we've seen performances in original trek where the

432
00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:06.240
actors have said, whoa, I can have a bit of fun with this.

433
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:08.099
There's none of them here.

434
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:10.019
Yeah, I think he's extremely good.

435
00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:12.180
Really, really good.

436
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.859
I think you'll probably find, you know, the best TOS episodes are

437
00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:20.279
in around this period of season two.

438
00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:22.920
Yeah, maybe right.

439
00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:25.859
They've probably figured out how to do this.

440
00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:29.339
How to write it and how they should be acting it, you know, and...

441
00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:31.740
Oh, my God.

442
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.279
And this, that is so frightening.

443
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:40.140
I can't, you know, like he's beamed them down to the planet and

444
00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:41.460
the way it's narrated.

445
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:43.619
He's beamed his crew down to the planet.

446
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.819
The machine has come along and just carved the planet up while

447
00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:51.180
they're begging him for help and he can't bring them back up and

448
00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:51.900
he's watching them.

449
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.180
It's, and look at the performance.

450
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:54.839
The performance.

451
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.859
Look at the performance, though.

452
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.740
In fact, we don't have to watch that because...

453
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:02.940
Yeah, yeah. very, very clearly how terrifying that was.

454
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.079
Yeah, yeah.

455
00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:07.440
And I think that that is more terrifying that he's on his own.

456
00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:09.180
Like that's a messenger speech.

457
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.099
We said some fall, haven't we, what you don't see?

458
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:14.940
Because in my mind, that is a truly horrific sequence, you know.

459
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.940
Whereas in reality, it would be one of those stock Star Trek sets

460
00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:18.720
for people going out.

461
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:25.319
In that shot, look, through the grill.

462
00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.599
I love those grills.

463
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:29.160
It doesn't have to be there.

464
00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:31.920
No, but it's a bit more interesting, isn't it?

465
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:33.839
It's like light and shadow.

466
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.920
Like even the way the grills came back again and again, can't

467
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.220
you?

468
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:39.180
I kept using him.

469
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.900
And it's because of that, I think this looks very filmy as well.

470
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:44.579
I mean, I know it's all shot on film.

471
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.900
Yeah, I don't know.

472
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:47.400
I just don't think this looks good.

473
00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:48.359
Look at that.

474
00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:50.460
Look at the dark, the dark set.

475
00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:53.700
He's just going for it, isn't he?

476
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.640
He's saying now it's taken out a dozen starships.

477
00:20:56.700 --> 00:20:58.140
It's destroyed planets.

478
00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:04.799
So what they've done is the buildup to see in this thing is

479
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:05.339
immense.

480
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:11.700
So when we finally see it, you know, we're already absolutely...

481
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:13.440
Yeah.

482
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.660
With like a glowing asshole.

483
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.059
You and I have run from a few of those.

484
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.660
Walter Wilson.

485
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.240
Who is this man?

486
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:29.039
Why is this man hearing his pyjamas on the bridge?

487
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:33.240
No, so those people, I think that there are people who do dress

488
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.240
like that, who are wearing pyjamas, like, and I can't remember

489
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:36.779
why.

490
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:39.660
And I think they do it a little bit occasionally on next

491
00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:40.680
generation as well.

492
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:43.319
I don't know what it is where they're non-commissioned or

493
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:43.619
something.

494
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.440
I don't know, write in or don't, don't write.

495
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:47.579
Did you see that bit, Lana Darl.

496
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.140
That Lana dialogue alone is enough.

497
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.940
It smashes planets to rubble.

498
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.019
Yeah, yeah.

499
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.680
Yeah.

500
00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:55.799
And it feeds on them and so it never stops.

501
00:21:55.859 --> 00:21:57.539
It uses them for fuel.

502
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.000
It's just perpetually self-sustaining.

503
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:05.640
So why would you imagine then next generation wouldn't go this far

504
00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:10.440
in terms of like, you know, massive drama.

505
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:14.880
I think it tries to, and I think it aspires to, and I think maybe

506
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:15.720
it nearly does.

507
00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:17.759
This bit doesn't make any sense, right?

508
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:22.559
So his projected solus projected the course and he's extrapolated

509
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.160
the course back and this thing comes from outside the galaxy, but

510
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:31.319
basically literally any course that you can plot, if you

511
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:34.319
extrapolate it backwards, will eventually come from outside the

512
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:35.460
galaxy, won't it?

513
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.559
Like unless you're going round and round.

514
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:39.779
Are you trying to bring logic to this thing again?

515
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.440
But, but that's awesome as well.

516
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:45.900
It makes it even more unknowable.

517
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:51.480
And this is one of the things that It's never been pinned down, has

518
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:53.519
it, in the actual show itself.

519
00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:55.440
Well, this is the same machine is.

520
00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:57.539
No, that's what's scary, though.

521
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.460
Yeah, the mystery... like spinoff material has sort of tried to do

522
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:03.480
stuff with that.

523
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:06.779
Imagine if they said, like you said to me, in discovery, right?

524
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:07.440
Imagine...

525
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.900
Yeah, they get always, like, what we get to shoot the weapon, it

526
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:12.720
was, you know, designed on Romulus Prime over 100s of years.

527
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.339
Wow, boring is that?

528
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.359
No, it's a giant planet eating space killer. you know, and that's

529
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:18.839
all you need to know.

530
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:21.059
Yeah, from outside the galaxy.

531
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:22.980
And so its purpose is unknowable.

532
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:28.980
And it is absolutely what Discovery Series 4 is inspired by the

533
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:30.779
DMA and Discovery Series 4.

534
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.740
This war, when the Borg were initially introduced in Q-Hoo.

535
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.180
It's absolutely this.

536
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:37.920
The unknowable objects.

537
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:39.359
You can't communicate with it.

538
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:40.019
Yeah.

539
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:41.519
It's coming after you.

540
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:43.380
You can't get out of its path, you know?

541
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:44.160
Yeah.

542
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:47.400
And eventually, you know, the more the Borg turn up, the less you

543
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:51.240
can hold, the less you can sustain that until you have some.

544
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:52.799
That's why it's good that this was a one-off.

545
00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:53.099
I think.

546
00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:55.980
I think if it had, you know, the doomsday machine, the sequel.

547
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:57.779
Yeah, yeah, it would have been tedious.

548
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.059
Well, they would have had to explain something about it.

549
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:01.920
They would have added some backstory, wouldn they?

550
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.380
Lighting in that shot just before then before this.

551
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:04.859
Look at that.

552
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.200
Look, there's a special effect shop right through the nacelles.

553
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.119
Yeah, one ship to another.

554
00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:11.279
Originally, that's not what we are.

555
00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:13.619
No, I know.

556
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.039
But it's a good effect all the same.

557
00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:22.200
Is that sort of budget saving thing where it's kind of like, oh

558
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.500
it's also a constitution class ship, so we can use the same sets

559
00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:27.119
and the same model and all of that.

560
00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:30.900
Can we take a moment, please, to talk about Spock, who is caused a

561
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:31.740
cucumber in this episode?

562
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.319
Jesus Christ, he's great in this.

563
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:35.759
Oh, wait, wait.

564
00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:40.980
Here's the machine. da, da, da, da, da, da.

565
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:42.539
My God.

566
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.039
I think it looks great.

567
00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:45.059
Yeah.

568
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.480
And even the original, which looks a little bit more plasticky, and

569
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:53.279
it's a bit bluer, and a bit smaller in the frame. pull up the

570
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.000
story for this, um, was appalled when he saw the the live action

571
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.720
thing because he envisaged it as being like covered in weapons and

572
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:01.680
armours and things.

573
00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:03.119
Yeah, but that would have been so boring.

574
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:04.380
Yeah, yeah.

575
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.140
The point of it is that it's unknowable.

576
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.420
It's an incomprehensible object.

577
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:10.259
I don't know.

578
00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:14.640
I know the fact that it kind of looks manufactured, but it also

579
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.220
looks a little bit sort of like stone.

580
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:18.960
And yet it's clearly alive.

581
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:22.619
Yeah, my head's fighting in about 5 different directions.

582
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.359
I was just trying to figure out this.

583
00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:25.259
I think it looks great.

584
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:26.880
And the original looks really good as well.

585
00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:30.420
The one problem that they have with the original is that they

586
00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:35.099
can't get the scale right, that everything on screen is roughly

587
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:38.759
the same size because they're using footage that they have lying

588
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.480
around, you know, they're not able to shoot all new footage.

589
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:43.440
They aren't.

590
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:44.400
Yeah, they could have done with.

591
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.859
Well, so, Michael, they right, just on extra days filming.

592
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:47.759
Yeah.

593
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.400
Yeah.

594
00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:52.980
I don't think they that they're even capable of it.

595
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.059
But they do, like, they give it a good college try, and I don't

596
00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:58.440
think it wrecks the story at all.

597
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:03.720
But it is really visible that the dialogue wants this machine to

598
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.259
be much bigger than the enterprise, but the effect shots aren't

599
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:07.980
able to achieve that.

600
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.579
And essentially now, like the rest of the episode is like, we know

601
00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:12.299
what this thing can do.

602
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:15.900
We know the impact this thing can have and we can't get away from

603
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:16.140
it.

604
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.779
Yeah, it's magnificent.

605
00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:19.440
It's so good.

606
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:21.779
Oh, it wouldn't be good.

607
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:23.880
They'd make sense if they didn't throw themselves across the

608
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:25.920
street dramatically. a great job of it, though.

609
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:26.339
Yeah, yeah.

610
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:28.440
Like, they probably do it for a half now.

611
00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:29.460
They're throws.

612
00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:31.740
Yeah, they really good.

613
00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:32.700
I'm good at the next gen crew.

614
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:34.380
I'm not going to keep shit on next year.

615
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.299
But they always look a bit embarrassed when they've got to kind of

616
00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:37.799
walk about in their chairs, you know.

617
00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:40.920
Whereas TOS, again, they go for it. just lunge across the set.

618
00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:43.680
Oh my goodness.

619
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:49.019
Nemoy is so, so great in this and it's Nemoy who has to confront

620
00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:51.480
Decker and we have the power play.

621
00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:53.279
And we had that in Corbin and White maneuver.

622
00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:56.160
Remember, we had the guy going mad on the bridge and...

623
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:57.599
That was really effective as well, I thought.

624
00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:58.500
Yeah, yeah.

625
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:02.640
So here we have, we have Decker taking over the ship because he

626
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:03.539
outranks them.

627
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.859
Why don't we have Commodores anymore?

628
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:05.880
I don't know.

629
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:07.619
I have a Commodore in Picard?

630
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.819
I think Commodore O in Picard, the evil one.

631
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:12.599
I think there's a commodore.

632
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.759
What was the episode where Pike goes on trial?

633
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.559
I think there's a Commodore in that story.

634
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:18.720
Yeah, there could be in the menagerie.

635
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:21.599
Do you not think it's a little bit irresponsible though?

636
00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:24.660
Now, I know, if in my workplace, you know, somebody who clearly

637
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:28.140
had suffered intense trauma and, you know, was screaming in a

638
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:31.380
primordial way, I wouldn't then say, right, tomorrow, back to work

639
00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:34.440
you know, and you're in charge as well, you know.

640
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:36.480
Yeah, and there is a line.

641
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:39.180
Like they do deal with that because...

642
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.880
You know, he just goes onto the bridge.

643
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:43.019
He's not put in charge.

644
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:47.940
Spock is in charge and then he starts to take over and because

645
00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:51.359
McCoy hasn't had the chance to properly diagnose him.

646
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:54.240
He can't relieve him of duty because he wouldn't be able to

647
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.319
present evidence.

648
00:27:57.299 --> 00:27:59.579
I believe I said that, doctor.

649
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.200
And he said, it's a joke.

650
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:05.880
And McCoy reacts to it and he completely deadpans it.

651
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:08.220
It's, you know, you mean to say we've been lucky.

652
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.980
And it's such a, that's wonderful.

653
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:14.519
This is so leaning into a lot of tear-ish cliches, but doing them

654
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:15.000
really, really well.

655
00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:18.119
But the one thing that kind of isn't here is the Spock McCoy

656
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:18.480
stuff.

657
00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:21.299
There's no there's no room for it here, is it?

658
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.019
No, in fact, both on the same side at this point as well.

659
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:30.119
You know, did you see that enormous black pad that Spock was just

660
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.180
holding a 2nd ago with a huge pencil that he was using to write

661
00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:33.420
with?

662
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.059
Now, is that actually a pad or was that supposed to be a piece of

663
00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:36.960
electronic equipment?

664
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.900
Because he's writing as if he's actually, you know, writing a

665
00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:40.619
shopping list.

666
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:41.640
It's an iPad.

667
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:44.279
Yeah, iPad, iPad Pro. Yeah.

668
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:44.940
Press code.

669
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:49.440
Yeah, yeah.

670
00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:54.839
And just the contrast too, between Decker, who looks hugely

671
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:58.259
dishevelled and kind of...

672
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:02.039
Yeah, with Spock who looks, who looks absolutely perfectly chill.

673
00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:07.259
I'd like to imagine the makeup lady tracing all of the lines on

674
00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:11.940
the actor's face because it's very stage makeup.

675
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.140
I think it's really effective.

676
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.359
I think they've used up all the stubble store.

677
00:29:15.420 --> 00:29:16.200
Yeah, look at that.

678
00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:17.039
Look at that close shot.

679
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:19.859
Look at the clothes shot where they've just clearly drawn in all

680
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:22.799
of the existing lines on the actors face.

681
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:25.859
It's a lovely contrast, though, isn't it?

682
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.599
you know, it's deliberate.

683
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:31.980
And this, so he's assuming command and we're about to get the best

684
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:35.160
eyebrow lift from Spock, I think, at this point.

685
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:42.299
And it's so wonderful having Spock telling him off without any

686
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:45.720
like, raising his voice or being angry or anything.

687
00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.240
You know, he's actually quite harsh with him.

688
00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:50.460
Yeah. for real, isn't it?

689
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:51.480
Yeah, yeah.

690
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.339
Solid neutronium.

691
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.460
You love, you love saying those, take up other words.

692
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.119
Here it is.

693
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:00.480
Here it is.

694
00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:03.359
You've been relieved of command and I think he does an eyebrow

695
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:05.099
raise and then and then stands up.

696
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.380
Let's see how, let's see, am I right?

697
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:08.279
Have I remembered it?

698
00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:16.079
Not one line of dialogue.

699
00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:18.420
Just the eyebrow. brilliant.

700
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:22.740
How could an eyebrow literally say, oh, okay.

701
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:25.799
Yeah, I do when you say it, but I'm not happy.

702
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:36.000
See, this is good Spock McCoy stuff, you know, there's the

703
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.940
regulations and McCoy doesn't want to listen to them.

704
00:30:39.059 --> 00:30:40.799
And both of them are right.

705
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:42.960
You know, it is that thing where they both have opposing

706
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.039
viewpoints and they're both right.

707
00:30:44.099 --> 00:30:46.920
It's a terrible idea to put Decker in command, but...

708
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:48.900
All my objections here are being covered by McCoy.

709
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.460
He is psychologically unstable.

710
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.079
You can relieve him of command.

711
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:53.640
So why doesn't he do it?

712
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.880
Because he hasn't run an examination and he would have to produce

713
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.299
proof.

714
00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:58.859
That's what Spock's about to say here.

715
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:03.059
Plus, he has a...

716
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:04.200
Yeah, no.

717
00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:06.539
And like he will get to the point.

718
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.720
Decker will get to the point where he behaves in such a way that

719
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.000
Spock does relieve him of command.

720
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.819
Spock, it's wonderful, isn't it?

721
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:19.559
It's just.

722
00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:22.019
I just love how they prostrate with their hands, you know?

723
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.099
But he's doing that compared to the very contained spot.

724
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.359
Like they are a perfect double act even without Kirk there to

725
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.960
mediate them. always stands out because everybody on this show is

726
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.240
so hysterical.

727
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:37.740
Yeah, it's the 60s.

728
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:38.700
They're all on drugs.

729
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:40.740
I just see you're calm in a night of chaos, isn't he?

730
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:42.539
He's so great.

731
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:44.099
Holy crap is good.

732
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:46.079
I don't think it can be said enough.

733
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:49.019
You can see how people fell for that character.

734
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:52.140
Like, you know, oh, look how Shadow was a little bit miffed, you

735
00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:52.319
know.

736
00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:56.819
Oh, I think he figured he was going to be the lead and in came the

737
00:31:56.819 --> 00:32:02.819
you know, the demonic Mr. Spock, the church funded production crew

738
00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:04.079
were like, well, get rid of him.

739
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.720
And Jim was like, nope, we're going to keep him in. everyone's

740
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.140
going to love him.

741
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:07.920
And you know what?

742
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:08.640
instincts was right.

743
00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:09.779
Yeah, yeah.

744
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:16.500
Well, I think too, that Shatner gets, there's one, like, I watched

745
00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:22.079
this 1st decades ago, and when we came to redo it, my memory was

746
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.319
that it was really great and I knew the outlines of it and stuff

747
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:27.839
but it had been a long while, I'm not super familiar with it.

748
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:31.920
But the one thing that I do remember is 2 line readings of Shatner

749
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.619
from near the end of the episode, which I'll point out, which I

750
00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:39.240
think are just absolutely magnificent and are about why Shatner is

751
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:40.319
as great as he is.

752
00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:44.160
That CGI shot there, that did rather look like a dildo hanging in

753
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:45.359
space, the doomsday machine.

754
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:50.339
That says more about the contents of my bedroom. then I probably

755
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:50.640
should.

756
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.500
And also as well, I was just constantly aware of, and this is

757
00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:58.680
shallow, how beautiful William Shannon looked in this episode.

758
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:00.480
Like they're shooting him.

759
00:33:00.539 --> 00:33:01.740
It just looks gorgeous.

760
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:03.839
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

761
00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:04.799
You don't think that.

762
00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:09.000
And I never thought that until kind of watching it as an adult, but

763
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:13.019
he has a very pretty face, like a very handsome.

764
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:14.640
Yeah, it's pretty, you know.

765
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:18.420
I just think he's...

766
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.660
I never want to object to a pretty man turning up in Star Trek, are

767
00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:21.900
we?

768
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:22.380
No.

769
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:26.160
I think TOS has a pretty good batting average for that, you know.

770
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:27.420
Yeah.

771
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:29.579
Yeah, maybe.

772
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:30.539
Yeah.

773
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:32.160
No one is pretty as Saru, though.

774
00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:36.359
That's, uh... honestly.

775
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.000
Oh my god.

776
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:40.380
So do you know what, right?

777
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:44.279
So the music there, when the Enterprise is going off, I went, and

778
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:49.500
then immediately it goes, da, da, da, da, da. good.

779
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:52.980
It's got its own bit of music, yeah.

780
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.119
Yeah, yeah.

781
00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:58.200
Like the next generation thing is so low effort and so

782
00:33:58.200 --> 00:33:59.160
indefensible.

783
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:03.119
And even something like best of both worlds, which I think is the

784
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:08.219
closest that TNG gets to this with that there's a sense of

785
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:12.719
impending doom, isn't there, after they encounter the that big

786
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:16.559
crater in the opening, you know, the pre-credits teaser.

787
00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:18.300
And the music is, who is it?

788
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:19.500
It's Ron Jones, I think.

789
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:20.699
Is that right?

790
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:21.719
Do you know Dream, man?

791
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:25.019
You just see to have things spitting fire out at the Enterprise.

792
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:26.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

793
00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:30.360
To know, you said to me, you know, that if you had seen this as a

794
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:33.360
child, it would have scared the terrible shit out of me.

795
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:35.460
I had a good think about that because then I thought, well, what

796
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:36.900
would have scared me about this as a child?

797
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.900
I don't think the doomsday machine would have scared me because I

798
00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:41.400
just would have thought that was very cool.

799
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:42.840
I love spaceships and things like that.

800
00:34:42.900 --> 00:34:47.039
I think it would have been Decker, seeing an adult act in such a

801
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.840
terrified, unpredictable way.

802
00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:53.460
Yeah, that was exactly why that was exactly why I thought that.

803
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:54.599
This shot here?

804
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.360
Look, Kirk's eyes. eyes are lit.

805
00:34:57.420 --> 00:34:59.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but everything else isn't.

806
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.340
It's almost like he stepped straight out of a detective thriller

807
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:02.639
isn't it?

808
00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:03.300
Yeah, yeah.

809
00:35:03.300 --> 00:35:06.900
So this, for instance, in the, in the original where the

810
00:35:06.900 --> 00:35:12.360
Enterprise is shooting phaser beams at the, at the machine is much

811
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.500
much more rudimentary, and you don't get the sense of the, of the

812
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:17.039
scale.

813
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:20.699
Generally speaking they look roughly the same size.

814
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.280
And so here it's improved.

815
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:27.000
It clearly is beyond their ambition to realise. they just kind of

816
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.199
go fuss out, we'll do it anyway.

817
00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:29.159
Yeah.

818
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.800
Whereas again, I think in 90s trek, they'll go, well, what can we

819
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:31.920
do?

820
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:33.719
And that's what we'll do, you know?

821
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:35.699
Yeah, we don't want to face plant, you know.

822
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.519
I was trying to think of a parallel on 90s track.

823
00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:39.239
I think I've got one.

824
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:43.199
Remember Silicon Avatar with the great crystalline entity in the

825
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:43.440
sky?

826
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:47.579
You know, calm down and they're on that planet, which has got a

827
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.440
blue filter all over it and everyone's running away.

828
00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:50.400
The golf course.

829
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.340
And they've blown, they've blown the trees as if there's a

830
00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:55.320
hurricane, but only the trees in the front are blowing.

831
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:57.480
Yeah, yeah, they have got strong enough.

832
00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:59.400
Riker's dinner date gets erased.

833
00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:03.539
And it is about, you know, a kind of unknowable object in the sky

834
00:36:03.539 --> 00:36:06.719
that's coming along and destroying, not planets, but colonies.

835
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:09.840
It's nowhere near as effective as this.

836
00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:10.500
No, no.

837
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.739
But I do think best of both worlds gets close to this.

838
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:17.579
But again, there's a kind of, yeah.

839
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:20.699
And it has the advantage of a long build that too.

840
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.699
Yeah, has the basically the trailer, which is Q-Hoo.

841
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:25.739
Yeah, which is so effective.

842
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:26.639
Yeah.

843
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.940
And, you know, as far back as the neutral zone, the last episode

844
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:34.500
of series one has them finding craters where colonies used to be.

845
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:39.179
So it's been on its way for 2 years or whatever.

846
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:43.199
And here you just have to compress that into the pre-credits

847
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.199
teaser with a few lines of dialogue about how all these star

848
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.300
systems have been destroyed.

849
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:51.480
I'm almost willing to bet, though, there's spinoff material books

850
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.760
or something like that, where they're trying to explain where this

851
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:54.420
thing comes from.

852
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:56.880
No, no, no, there are. you know, the memory alpha brigade.

853
00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:59.340
They can't let it stand, but this thing is a mystery, you know?

854
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:00.659
Yeah, yeah.

855
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:02.880
Yeah, here we go.

856
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:05.460
So he is committing suicide.

857
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:11.099
He's doing something that is ill advised and so, and so Spock is

858
00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:12.239
relieving him of command.

859
00:37:12.539 --> 00:37:17.519
Like, no, no, he's like psychologically.

860
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:20.099
You you, I think you're on board with him.

861
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:24.960
Like, he's seen everybody under his command killed and now he

862
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.139
wants to stop this thing no matter what. you know, as a massive

863
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:29.400
revenge.

864
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:31.019
That's amazing, isn't it?

865
00:37:31.139 --> 00:37:32.579
Yeah, wow.

866
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:35.519
Now, I think what he's doing is unreasonable, but it's

867
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:36.000
understandable.

868
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:37.260
Yeah, yeah.

869
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:38.039
Yeah.

870
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:40.739
Gee, that looks good.

871
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.360
I just love the machine so much.

872
00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:43.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

873
00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:46.920
Take a look at some photos of the original, because the original

874
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:49.019
is just as charming, I think.

875
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:52.440
It's a bit less scary, but still scary enough.

876
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:56.039
And it's weird in a way, you know, when you've got computer

877
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:59.280
generated imagery, you can basically create anything you can

878
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.760
imagine, whereas there they're constrained with what they can do

879
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:08.039
with, you know, like a bunch of tin foil and lighting gels and

880
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:11.880
they create something that looks pretty amazing, I think.

881
00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:14.760
William Shatner just fell over that console arse up then.

882
00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:16.079
I could never notice that.

883
00:38:16.619 --> 00:38:19.500
Oh, there's Jimmy going for it engineering.

884
00:38:21.059 --> 00:38:24.599
So clever, that sense of depth that they managed to.

885
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:25.500
Yeah, yeah.

886
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:26.760
Again, that's perspective.

887
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.159
It's not a, I can't have a notice.

888
00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:31.739
There were 2 engineering crew behind him a 2nd ago on that.

889
00:38:31.739 --> 00:38:32.639
They both vanished.

890
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:34.320
I can't remember.

891
00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:35.519
They do go somewhere.

892
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.519
I don't think they just disappear from the show.

893
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:40.079
I do like this too.

894
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:42.239
Like, they've deliberately said that the bridge of the

895
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.599
constellation's been destroyed, and so everything's been done in

896
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:51.059
this engineering set, so we're not having to use the bridge on the

897
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:51.480
bridge.

898
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:51.900
Yeah.

899
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:54.780
But that engineering site is so impressive anyway.

900
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:55.980
Who cares?

901
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:57.300
It is really great.

902
00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:58.139
Look at this.

903
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:00.480
The shit is literally being eaten up by the machine.

904
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:01.199
Yeah, yeah.

905
00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:04.860
And again, scale, you know, that's the advantage that these models

906
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:08.699
have is that the machine is so much bigger than the enterprise.

907
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:10.380
It's such an exciting idea.

908
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.079
I'll be wearing my pants as a kid on the edge of my seat.

909
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.159
Scotty, you didn't think of mentioning that we have phases.

910
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:21.539
Oh, we've got tears.

911
00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:28.139
I think the funniest thing in this whole episode is that the

912
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:30.360
climax when Kurt's going, now, please.

913
00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:34.800
That is my line reading that I was going to mention.

914
00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:37.079
I absolutely adore it.

915
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:41.579
We'll get there, but holy shit. terrified. myself laughing.

916
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:43.019
It's so good.

917
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.780
It's and I think it's the best thing ever.

918
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:47.820
Only Shatner could deliver that line that well.

919
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:48.900
Oh, yeah.

920
00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:55.500
Oh my god.

921
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:57.059
I just want to watch this actually.

922
00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:00.119
Yeah, no, we're both watching, aren't we?

923
00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:00.840
And you know what?

924
00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:01.800
I'm not going to lie now.

925
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:02.519
I love talking with you.

926
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:03.480
It's my favourite thing in the world.

927
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.559
I do miss the music.

928
00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:06.840
Yeah, the music is so great.

929
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:08.760
Does have a huge sense of drama.

930
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.619
I mean, was it an orchestra?

931
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:11.159
They had.

932
00:40:11.219 --> 00:40:11.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

933
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:14.280
Like a full orchestra, because it sounds like it.

934
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:15.480
Yeah, no, no.

935
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:17.340
It's really, really good.

936
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:19.800
Do you know?

937
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.059
I was gone about the design.

938
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:24.059
I do love whatever's going on in these consoles on the walls.

939
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:26.940
That's a little nebula over there.

940
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.320
Look, Star map.

941
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:29.940
It's very strange.

942
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.099
Basic, but it's pretty.

943
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.699
Well, I mean, we weren't singing and I'm sorry, I've got to stop

944
00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:36.960
going on about the next generation.

945
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:37.559
Yeah, yeah.

946
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:43.019
What was that set in 90s trek where they all just appeared and all

947
00:40:43.019 --> 00:40:50.159
it was was these sort of like printed panels of barbains that all

948
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:51.900
just flashed on and off at the same time?

949
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.179
Yeah, yeah, like so boring.

950
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:56.579
Nothing, just shiny surface.

951
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:58.079
No, no.

952
00:40:58.139 --> 00:41:00.239
And that's another thing now that they've got the money in

953
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.119
discovery that all of those instrument panels look incredible

954
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:07.380
because they're, you know, all holograms in the air and stuff.

955
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.579
It's really terrific.

956
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:10.739
And they even do that in Picard.

957
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:12.599
It's so funny though, isn't it?

958
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:15.059
Because, like, they obviously learnt their techniques here.

959
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.539
Oh, I suppose there's a massive gap between this and TNG.

960
00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:22.500
And TV has just gone in in very different directions by then.

961
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:28.559
Yeah, I think, though, that they were right, weren't they, that

962
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:34.980
the primary method for interacting with a computer becomes your

963
00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:36.599
finger on a touchscreen?

964
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:39.179
And they anticipated that.

965
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:41.760
So there are no physical buttons.

966
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:44.519
It is just a screen and they got...

967
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.500
The communicator is in TOS.

968
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:48.239
A bit like a mobile phone, you know?

969
00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:48.599
Yeah.

970
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:49.199
Yeah.

971
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:50.340
Well, they flick open.

972
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:54.239
But what it turns out is they're boring.

973
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:57.239
And that's why, you know, the Delta Flyer has switches because

974
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:01.320
switches, you can see people doing things. physical, yeah.

975
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:02.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

976
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:04.679
I have a question for you.

977
00:42:04.739 --> 00:42:10.860
Can you tell me the Star Trek story that Decker's son appeared

978
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:11.039
in?

979
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:15.840
So yeah, so it's Star Trek the Motion picture.

980
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:19.199
There's a character called Decker, and we mentioned him a couple

981
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:19.800
of weeks ago.

982
00:42:19.860 --> 00:42:24.539
Decker and I, Leah, who are kind of proto-Riker and Troy from

983
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:26.039
that.

984
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:28.920
I think they were going to be in phase 2 as well, weren't they?

985
00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:30.059
Yeah, that's where they come from.

986
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:30.599
That's right.

987
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:38.460
And so in spinoff material, I think they say that Will Decker is

988
00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:41.519
Matt Decker's son.

989
00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:45.780
And Gene Roddenbury went on, he basically said, he confirmed that

990
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:46.019
you know?

991
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:46.440
Yeah.

992
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.599
And if the great bird in the sky says it.

993
00:42:48.659 --> 00:42:49.980
It must be true.

994
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.019
Look how he does it.

995
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:59.639
Look how he relieves him without breaking a sweat without raising

996
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:00.539
his voice.

997
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.380
He's got his little post-it notes there in his hand.

998
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.380
Leonard Nemoy half in the shadow half in the light now.

999
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.420
Yeah, yeah. very striking.

1000
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:12.900
He's just got that face.

1001
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.059
You know, I watched a documentary recently, right?

1002
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:21.000
That was about Leonard Nimoy, as it was filmed by his son, about

1003
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:21.480
his career.

1004
00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:27.840
And you look at Nemoy in his previous career today, man, he was so

1005
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:31.860
beautiful. you know, but seeing him in things like jeans, you know

1006
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:33.900
and slaps and things like that, it was so strange.

1007
00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:37.679
He's so good.

1008
00:43:37.739 --> 00:43:39.420
He's such a great character.

1009
00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:41.159
No, I think I win.

1010
00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:45.360
We've said it before. there's obviously an unfortunate sexist

1011
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:48.059
leaning towards all the good stuff going to the men.

1012
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:52.320
But the men they cast in TOS are brilliant.

1013
00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:56.820
And De Forrest Kelly as well, who he delivers a line.

1014
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.760
You know, I will say about Bob Picardo and Alvin Shimmerman.

1015
00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:02.219
I think Deforest Kelly hasn't beat, you know?

1016
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:02.940
Yeah.

1017
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.599
Well, in fact, it's a shame that that D isn't in this scene to

1018
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:13.019
watch, uh, to watch Spock effortlessly take over from Decca by

1019
00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:14.579
relieving him of command.

1020
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.760
You know, he was there earlier on waving his arms around, saying

1021
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:18.360
do something.

1022
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:20.099
And Spock does do something.

1023
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:22.440
This fight sequence.

1024
00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:27.599
Okay, it's mostly shot. handheld with the occasional long shot.

1025
00:44:27.659 --> 00:44:29.219
It's really good.

1026
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:30.780
Yeah, yeah.

1027
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:32.099
It is great, isn't it?

1028
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.960
And, like, you just assume that he's going to lose.

1029
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:42.599
And, um, you know, this is, this is what I've said.

1030
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.219
I've been myself with what he does now then.

1031
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:46.380
Oh, yeah, they think absolutely.

1032
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:46.980
Yeah.

1033
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.059
If he thought, I think it would be improved a little bit if he

1034
00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:54.420
thought that he had a shot at damaging the weapon, but he does

1035
00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:58.920
just seem to be flying into the, you know, like he doesn't quite

1036
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:01.260
redeem himself, he does just kind of kill himself.

1037
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:02.820
Is he just committing suicide?

1038
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:06.179
I think that the episode, like, as we've watched these things

1039
00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:08.280
we've given reading on how characters behave.

1040
00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:11.340
I think this episode characterises him as a victim rather than a

1041
00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:14.219
villain throughout, even when he's behaving appallingly.

1042
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:17.460
Yeah, and they say that they're going to say that he died in the

1043
00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:20.940
course of doing his duty and their right to do that because they

1044
00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:23.699
understand what he's done and what he's gone through.

1045
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:28.980
And the fact that he continues to take the same course of action

1046
00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:32.820
after he's relieved of duty, he's relieved of duty but still heads

1047
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:38.039
a ship into the machine. you know, just shows that he wasn't just

1048
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.440
being a reckless commander, he really thought this was the right

1049
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:40.860
thing to do.

1050
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.719
Now, you have the fabric.

1051
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.059
That ship looks all within the cells torn apart.

1052
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.860
There is an incredible model shot in the original...

1053
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:52.260
Oh, the shuttle leaving the enterprise.

1054
00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:53.880
Of the shuttle leaving the enterprise.

1055
00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:55.139
So the shot off the shuttle bay.

1056
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:58.739
It's a miniature shot and it is stunningly beautiful.

1057
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:00.719
There's elements of the design that remains.

1058
00:46:01.019 --> 00:46:03.119
Do we follow the shutter as it's going out then?

1059
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:06.480
It's not quite as good as that, but we do see the shuttle rise and

1060
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:07.500
head off into the distance.

1061
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:11.579
And so it's a less complex shot than what eventually makes it to

1062
00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:13.980
air here in the remastered version.

1063
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:16.019
There's a shut box.

1064
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:16.679
Yeah.

1065
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:19.019
I mean, that's pretty cool.

1066
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:20.880
The way it heals as it comes up.

1067
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:22.679
Yeah, the original one didn't do that.

1068
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:24.840
No, the original one is much more symmetrical.

1069
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:28.199
It is actually shot with you looking straight on out of the

1070
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:28.920
shuttle bay.

1071
00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:32.219
It's still the same basic design, but it's beautiful.

1072
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.260
It's absolutely stunning.

1073
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.340
I think these new effect shots are really, really good though.

1074
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:39.360
I'm a fan.

1075
00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:40.860
I am a fan of them.

1076
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:43.739
And they did it to next gen as well.

1077
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.380
Yeah, and it's certainly not work, you know, we shouldn't

1078
00:46:46.380 --> 00:46:49.500
undersell what they could achieve. what they what they tried to

1079
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:49.920
achieve.

1080
00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:52.079
You know, it's like it's like early Doctor Who.

1081
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:53.519
They had the ambition.

1082
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:57.059
And boy, did they, you know, have a good snap again?

1083
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:03.420
But I think that perhaps the best argument against the new special

1084
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:07.739
effects is that it disrespects the work of all of these dedicated

1085
00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:08.880
TV people.

1086
00:47:10.019 --> 00:47:15.840
Well, no, but I do think that that's I think that's a reasonable

1087
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:16.260
argument.

1088
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:16.739
Yeah.

1089
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:18.360
I think it is a reasonable argument.

1090
00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:20.760
And I certainly feel that with that model shot, which I think was

1091
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.940
extraordinary and really, very beautiful, and I'm sorry, it's not

1092
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:24.300
in it.

1093
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:26.820
Like, you know, if there's a way...

1094
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:30.900
I know. of making this look good, then I agree.

1095
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:31.980
Why would we do that?

1096
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:33.300
No, exactly right.

1097
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:33.780
Yeah.

1098
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:36.360
Oh, you feel so sorry for it there.

1099
00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.179
Yeah. ever since I killed my crew.

1100
00:47:40.500 --> 00:47:42.539
Yeah, wow.

1101
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.300
Camera is right in his face.

1102
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.340
That actor is not afraid of that camera is he?

1103
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:52.380
I think too, maybe the fact, the description of what happened to

1104
00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:55.739
his crew, I would have been terrified by that as a child, because

1105
00:47:55.739 --> 00:48:00.360
I think it's conceptually you could understand it as a child. not

1106
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:04.380
complicated and it's conceptually terrifying, I think, if him

1107
00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:06.719
sitting there helplessly listening to them, you know.

1108
00:48:06.780 --> 00:48:11.099
But also, I mean, God, if the cameras came...

1109
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:14.940
But the idea of like flying into the unknown, you know?

1110
00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:20.219
With that buildup of music, it's like, da, da, da.

1111
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:22.380
It's it is terrifying.

1112
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:23.400
Do you know what?

1113
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:27.300
I said to you before that, um, Random trek.

1114
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:27.780
What's his name?

1115
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:31.619
Scott McNulty says that every episode of TOS basically could lose

1116
00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:32.099
10 minutes.

1117
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.119
Not this much.

1118
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:33.719
Not true.

1119
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:35.519
This is this is a tight script, you know?

1120
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:38.159
Yeah, there's enough happening here.

1121
00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:38.940
No.

1122
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:44.699
There's a great, again, the special effects here on Decker's face

1123
00:48:44.699 --> 00:48:46.380
have been updated.

1124
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:48.480
We're about to get that shop.

1125
00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:50.460
And again, I think this is terrifying, this performance.

1126
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:51.960
Absolutely.

1127
00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:52.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1128
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:55.980
And particularly in the original episode, you don't have the

1129
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.199
advantage of this incredible, impressive shot.

1130
00:48:58.260 --> 00:49:01.019
They've done things to that. deliver space, you know?

1131
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:01.980
that's not original.

1132
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.380
No, but you're thinking like, what the hell is happening to him?

1133
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:05.219
Yeah.

1134
00:49:05.219 --> 00:49:06.539
We never know.

1135
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:08.579
Yeah, you do get that from the...

1136
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:11.699
I mean, it could be that he's actually transported inside and

1137
00:49:11.699 --> 00:49:14.159
there's Clint Howard's character handing out Matronia.

1138
00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:15.119
Yeah, could be.

1139
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:15.599
Never know.

1140
00:49:15.659 --> 00:49:16.500
Yeah, could be.

1141
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:17.280
Tron your party.

1142
00:49:20.340 --> 00:49:22.619
And now the Trunya.

1143
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:29.280
I mean, I think, aside from the climax, that's the high point of

1144
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:30.719
the episode here.

1145
00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:32.219
Yeah, that's amazing.

1146
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:33.239
It's just amazing.

1147
00:49:33.300 --> 00:49:35.099
And again, look at Kirk.

1148
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:36.539
Look at Kirk.

1149
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:37.679
Do you know what it's doing?

1150
00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:40.440
It's actually making, and I don't think Star Trek does this

1151
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:44.340
anywhere near as often as they should, it makes being out in space

1152
00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:45.659
really scary.

1153
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:46.980
What about that?

1154
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:48.900
I think that line is beautiful.

1155
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.480
May I console you on the death of your friend?

1156
00:49:51.539 --> 00:49:54.300
Like Spock saying that to Kirk?

1157
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.059
I think he's just beautiful.

1158
00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:59.340
He says is regrettable that he died for nothing.

1159
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:04.380
But I think actually he couldn't go on living. that's right. what

1160
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:05.340
he did. exactly it.

1161
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:05.820
Yeah.

1162
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:07.800
And that's why he committed suicide.

1163
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.460
Yeah, he tries to make it better by getting it right. this time

1164
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:16.260
with a new crew. when he can't do that because Spock relieves him

1165
00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:19.139
of duty, then he just, you know, yeah.

1166
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:21.179
You know what I think next Gem would do.

1167
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:24.179
I think they would tell a similar-ish story.

1168
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.360
Maybe the scale would be a little less epic, but I don't think

1169
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:31.320
they'd have, like, the intense, like, Decker's character.

1170
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:34.440
I think it would just be the problem of the doomsday machine and

1171
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:36.539
lots of scenes in engineering with data enjoyed again.

1172
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:37.619
How are we going to bring this thing down?

1173
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.639
We take the bubble.

1174
00:50:38.699 --> 00:50:41.519
Well, except except that Star Trek, the Next Generation, does do

1175
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.199
the thing where you have the guest, the guest character come on.

1176
00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:49.619
Probably not as often as it should, though, given there's 179

1177
00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:49.980
episodes.

1178
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.219
But it doesn't, a reasonable amount of, you know, like, such

1179
00:50:53.219 --> 00:50:54.000
amount of time.

1180
00:50:54.059 --> 00:50:56.099
We mentioned drumhead.

1181
00:50:56.099 --> 00:50:57.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1182
00:50:57.480 --> 00:50:58.679
No, it is a thing that they do.

1183
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.539
And I think it often works really well.

1184
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:05.639
And here, I think...

1185
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:07.920
The one in the one in Silicon Abbas hole is a bit wooden.

1186
00:51:07.980 --> 00:51:08.400
I think.

1187
00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:09.900
I actually quite like her.

1188
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:14.219
I think that's, I don't know that it's a brilliant performance, but

1189
00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:15.960
I actually don't mind that episode at all.

1190
00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:20.699
Do you remember when Admiral Satay goes, I brought down better...

1191
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:21.480
So great.

1192
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:26.760
Gene Simmons talking techno Babble is absolutely one of my

1193
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:30.119
favourite things that Star Trek has ever brought to me. wonderful.

1194
00:51:30.179 --> 00:51:31.320
That's true.

1195
00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:32.519
She's really great in it.

1196
00:51:32.579 --> 00:51:33.599
Really properly good.

1197
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:40.019
So now we've got 8 minutes. to bring this to a climax now.

1198
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:44.820
Yeah, so those 2 engineering people have now been beamed back

1199
00:51:44.820 --> 00:51:46.079
aboard.

1200
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.500
It's so funny, this 32nd delay device.

1201
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.360
Can you do a 32nd delay device?

1202
00:51:51.420 --> 00:51:54.360
And then everyone goes, well, it's a bit tight, you know, and the

1203
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:55.440
transporters might not work.

1204
00:51:55.500 --> 00:51:58.559
And he doesn't go, well, okay, let's make it a minute.

1205
00:51:58.619 --> 00:52:02.460
Yeah, like a minute, 90 seconds.

1206
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:03.539
It doesn't really matter.

1207
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.159
Minute's not gonna make any difference.

1208
00:52:05.219 --> 00:52:06.659
No worry, no.

1209
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:11.519
They're trying to add some in-built suspense into the climax

1210
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:11.760
alright?

1211
00:52:11.820 --> 00:52:12.900
Cut on some slack.

1212
00:52:13.019 --> 00:52:14.579
My God.

1213
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.619
Dramatic zoo on Leonard Nemoy.

1214
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:18.119
But Jim, you'll be killed.

1215
00:52:18.179 --> 00:52:18.719
You be killed.

1216
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:21.780
But I also think too, this is something that Star Trek the Next

1217
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:25.500
Generation does really effortlessly, but that Star Trek doesn't

1218
00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:29.099
necessarily do it, which is the idea that you can just have normal

1219
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:31.380
conversations between characters who are in completely different

1220
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:34.380
locations and you forget how weird that is.

1221
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.260
And you don't need them to hold phones.

1222
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:39.900
I mean, he's holding the communicator, but in Star Trek, the next

1223
00:52:39.900 --> 00:52:40.500
generation.

1224
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.559
People in engineering routinely just have conversations with

1225
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:44.460
people on the bridge.

1226
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:48.360
And I guess that having these 2 locations here where they're just

1227
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.440
constantly conversing.

1228
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:52.739
They're constantly in contact made it seem more like a next

1229
00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:54.659
generation episode to me.

1230
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:57.539
You said in the next generation, one of the joys of watching those

1231
00:52:57.539 --> 00:53:01.320
episodes is that you're watching people be highly competent at

1232
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:04.019
their jobs, but there is a difference here.

1233
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:04.559
I don't know.

1234
00:53:04.619 --> 00:53:08.940
It feels like it's a bit more edgy and it's a bit more last minute

1235
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:13.260
and they're all a bit braver and, you know, Kirk throws himself

1236
00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:16.320
right into the heart of the action and it's him that's facing the

1237
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:17.760
Picard wouldn't be doing that.

1238
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:22.800
No, well, I mean, they're almost never quite as up against the

1239
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:25.199
kind of, do you know what I mean?

1240
00:53:25.260 --> 00:53:27.059
Like it's never quite as urgent as that.

1241
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.719
This is still space problems, jury rigging things, fixing things

1242
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.920
doing space things, and...

1243
00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:36.599
The stakes are higher, I think.

1244
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:40.260
Because I think if we don't stop this thing, well, it's going to

1245
00:53:40.260 --> 00:53:42.780
go off munching another load of planets could be Earth next.

1246
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:44.579
Well, Rygel, they mentioned Rygel.

1247
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:48.539
So they talk about the most populated place in the galaxy and

1248
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:50.820
obviously when...

1249
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:51.480
I don't recall.

1250
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.000
I'm sure we do an enterprise, probably.

1251
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.559
So this is a Jeffrey's tube.

1252
00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:00.420
It's not, is it?

1253
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:02.280
Yeah, that's a Jeffreys tube.

1254
00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:04.380
And Jeffrey's tubes aren't YouTube.

1255
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:05.099
Yeah.

1256
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:10.679
So they're not referred to it in to it as that in dialogue in TOS

1257
00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:13.260
but they're known as that because they were designed by the

1258
00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:16.920
designer who I want to call Matt Jeffries, but I could be wrong

1259
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:17.400
about that.

1260
00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:21.300
And then the name is now used in dialogue for any of the tubes

1261
00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:22.860
like that in a Starfleet ship.

1262
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.639
So that's the original Jeffreys tube there with Scotty trying to

1263
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:30.840
fix the whatever that feeds into the transporter.

1264
00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:35.159
You know what the Voyager version of this was, don't you?

1265
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:37.559
The Omega directive.

1266
00:54:37.619 --> 00:54:40.980
It was just a tiny little particle that could potentially destroy

1267
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:41.880
the entire universe.

1268
00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:43.920
Yes, that's right.

1269
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:46.559
Compared to this planet eating machine.

1270
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:51.239
Well, that's the, that's more about the...

1271
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:52.920
I think we should be honest.

1272
00:54:52.980 --> 00:54:54.179
There ain't nothing subtle about this.

1273
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:56.579
No, no, I don't care.

1274
00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:57.719
Oh my god.

1275
00:54:57.780 --> 00:55:02.760
We are about to get up to the that Shatner line reading, which is

1276
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:05.699
just the most perfect thing in the whole world.

1277
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:08.639
It is absolutely laugh out loud funny.

1278
00:55:08.699 --> 00:55:10.980
Most look straight out the camera and goes, now, please.

1279
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:15.059
He's sort of half smiling as well, like, this is incredibly

1280
00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:15.599
tense.

1281
00:55:15.659 --> 00:55:17.820
He's doing a fantastic job.

1282
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:19.199
He's not camping it up.

1283
00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:23.699
He's not making fun of it when he does it like this when he gives

1284
00:55:23.699 --> 00:55:24.659
a comic line reading.

1285
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:27.420
He's not undermining the tension in the scene.

1286
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:33.059
He's not mugging to camera, but it's really, really good.

1287
00:55:33.179 --> 00:55:34.679
It's hilariously funny.

1288
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:35.820
It adds a little bit of character.

1289
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.980
It's a pretty tense moment.

1290
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:39.539
It's awesome.

1291
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:41.099
It's such a strange choice.

1292
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:44.219
I have seen this done in other things, you know, when you're in

1293
00:55:44.219 --> 00:55:47.820
the climax and it's like, ah, you know, in a 2nd now.

1294
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:55.019
Gentlemen, beam me aboard. 20 seconds, my friend, my God.

1295
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.619
And look, the Enterprise is going straight into the path of the

1296
00:55:58.619 --> 00:55:59.460
doomsday machine.

1297
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:03.780
The transporter pad is blowing up all over the place.

1298
00:56:03.780 --> 00:56:05.340
I mean it's all happening.

1299
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:09.119
And I'll tell you now that orchestra is going fucking crazy right

1300
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:09.300
now.

1301
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:13.199
Shutter looking at the thing.

1302
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.380
Just how he underplays it.

1303
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:18.719
We've talked about him chewing the scenery, but he's so

1304
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:19.679
underplaying it.

1305
00:56:19.739 --> 00:56:20.699
It's so magical.

1306
00:56:20.940 --> 00:56:22.320
13.

1307
00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:24.539
Gentlemen, I said, you should be me a board.

1308
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:28.980
Nine, eight, seven.

1309
00:56:29.099 --> 00:56:29.940
Mr. Scott.

1310
00:56:32.099 --> 00:56:34.860
Oh my god, he's still there at four.

1311
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:39.179
Oh my god, look at that Charlie Enprise silhouetted by the

1312
00:56:39.179 --> 00:56:39.420
machine.

1313
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:44.820
Amazing Isn't that the Constitution?

1314
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:46.079
Not the Enterprise.

1315
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:48.539
No, the constellation.

1316
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:49.500
Sorry, constellation.

1317
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:51.539
There we go.

1318
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:54.000
It's having a giant vomit announced dead.

1319
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:57.000
It really doesn't remind me of you.

1320
00:56:57.059 --> 00:56:59.579
Yeah, that probe in Star Trek, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob.

1321
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:00.119
Yeah, yeah.

1322
00:57:00.179 --> 00:57:01.019
Yeah.

1323
00:57:01.019 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah.

1324
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:02.519
Does remind me of that.

1325
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:06.179
No, I think I think they're absolutely roofing on that.

1326
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.139
Except this isn't a comedy yomp with George and Gracie, is it?

1327
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:10.920
No.

1328
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:14.219
Well, that's my...

1329
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:17.159
When we were one of the films, if we don't get that one, I'll be

1330
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:17.760
very disappointed.

1331
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:18.480
Yeah, yeah.

1332
00:57:18.539 --> 00:57:20.699
Yeah, we could just roll until we do get that one.

1333
00:57:21.300 --> 00:57:23.880
And people would call that cheating, you know.

1334
00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:25.739
It's still part of the rules.

1335
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:27.719
The rules publish.

1336
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:28.920
Sorry for the doctor 2 reference.

1337
00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:31.079
It does look a bit like a cyber map floating through space now

1338
00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:31.619
doesn't it?

1339
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:36.719
So it looks a bit less segmented the original model.

1340
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.380
And the original model seems more visibly dead.

1341
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:44.039
I don't know whether they repainted or substituted with a new one

1342
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:49.019
but it sells it as dead in a way that maybe this one doesn't quite

1343
00:57:49.019 --> 00:57:49.559
so much.

1344
00:57:49.619 --> 00:57:50.940
You know what?

1345
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.159
It's so impressive about this episode, right?

1346
00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:59.639
is B for B. They got every moment, like perfect. and it would so

1347
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:01.440
easily for something to go wrong.

1348
00:58:01.500 --> 00:58:02.940
The music was shit.

1349
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:04.800
The performance of Decca wasn't right.

1350
00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:06.780
Shatner was playing it up.

1351
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:09.300
I know, they threw in a comedy subplot.

1352
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:14.099
Although here is a here is a slightly over egg.

1353
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:16.559
Christian was paying attention.

1354
00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:18.360
Yeah.

1355
00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:24.420
So by the way, kids at home, this is an analogue for the H bomb.

1356
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:28.139
This comes straight out of Sabrina, the teenage witch, anyway, when

1357
00:58:28.139 --> 00:58:32.460
she looks straight out of the audience. that's right Does it end

1358
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:32.820
on a joke?

1359
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:33.599
can't remember.

1360
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:34.980
Yeah, it does.

1361
00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:35.699
Yeah, there it is.

1362
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:36.179
That the joke.

1363
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:37.500
It's a crap joke as well.

1364
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:39.300
Do we get one quite sufficient?

1365
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:40.500
There he is.

1366
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:40.980
There he is.

1367
00:58:41.099 --> 00:58:46.440
No, we don't get the musical thing, but we do get a little crappy

1368
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.019
smirk from Shatner to end the episode.

1369
00:58:49.019 --> 00:58:51.119
And now we're off on other adventures.

1370
00:58:51.179 --> 00:58:56.820
I think I can answer your question now then, as to why, like, we

1371
00:58:56.820 --> 00:59:02.280
think this is so good compared to other space problem episodes, is

1372
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:04.679
I just think it is flawlessly executed.

1373
00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:05.699
The whole thing.

1374
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.159
It's really well done.

1375
00:59:08.219 --> 00:59:10.440
Nothing goes wrong in this one.

1376
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.079
No, I don't think anything does.

1377
00:59:13.139 --> 00:59:18.179
And I think there's a good guest performance, like a really

1378
00:59:18.179 --> 00:59:23.219
properly good guest performance, a comprehensible situation.

1379
00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:26.159
Simple.

1380
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:27.840
Yeah. very dramatic.

1381
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.059
And it still is space problems.

1382
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:32.820
You know, I just think that maybe the scale of it and the

1383
00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:35.760
potential consequences make a difference.

1384
00:59:36.659 --> 00:59:39.300
And the countdown and stuff.

1385
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:44.400
But I think the space problems thing is not a flaw.

1386
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:46.739
It's a strength, this episode.

1387
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:51.360
And because they build up a threat as something so kind of chaotic

1388
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:52.440
and so dangerous.

1389
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.480
If they don't get this right, there are massive consequences. not

1390
00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:00.360
only is it about people being competent, they have to be competent

1391
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:04.380
at their jobs in this, otherwise. solar system is doomed.

1392
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:06.239
Yeah, yeah, that's Rigel.

1393
01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:08.099
Do you know those Rigelians?

1394
01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:13.500
I want to say, because last week, I looked at the next generation

1395
01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:15.239
drew back an arrow and pierced its heart.

1396
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:19.860
This week, I want to do the same thing, but I've got to say, doing

1397
01:00:19.860 --> 01:00:22.619
this with you on Titled Star Trek project.

1398
01:00:22.860 --> 01:00:29.159
I don't think I have ever appreciated how good TOS can be. at its

1399
01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:29.400
best.

1400
01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:32.039
You know, I think I actually, I think I wrote it off a little bit

1401
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:37.320
as being, you know, old-fashioned too long, hammy.

1402
01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:37.739
Yeah.

1403
01:00:37.739 --> 01:00:40.980
But actually, the episodes that we've covered so far, Spectra of

1404
01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:44.880
the Gun, Dune Stay Machine, Corman White maneuver, they've been

1405
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:48.599
really, really great episodes of TV and Spock's playing.

1406
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:51.300
Yeah, obviously I was leaving that one up.

1407
01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:53.880
We laughed a lot during that one as well.

1408
01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:56.699
Yeah, it was also boring though.

1409
01:00:56.760 --> 01:01:00.780
Yeah, look, I think that this version of Star Trek can face plant

1410
01:01:00.780 --> 01:01:04.980
and can do it spectacularly, and there are often episodes that are

1411
01:01:04.980 --> 01:01:09.420
really not very good, but do you not think that when the next

1412
01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:14.940
generation is bland, it's really tedious.

1413
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:18.840
When TOS is bland, it's still terrific fun.

1414
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.980
I think that there's a problematic relationship between NextGen

1415
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:24.119
and TOS.

1416
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:29.099
And I think you can see it in the insistence that next generation

1417
01:01:29.099 --> 01:01:31.019
has no Vulcans in it for a while.

1418
01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:32.519
Like they, you know.

1419
01:01:32.579 --> 01:01:36.900
And I think, that it is that it really, really wants to

1420
01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:44.280
differentiate itself from its parent show and in a way it's kind

1421
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:46.559
of embarrassed by the parent show.

1422
01:01:46.619 --> 01:01:48.480
That's the weird thing, though.

1423
01:01:48.539 --> 01:01:49.619
I think you're right.

1424
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:54.539
It is a little bit humiliated about how campy that is.

1425
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:55.559
Yeah.

1426
01:01:55.619 --> 01:02:00.420
But the weird result is by treating it also seriously, and there's

1427
01:02:00.420 --> 01:02:01.679
still an absurd situations.

1428
01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:04.019
It's even more embarrassing.

1429
01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:07.500
First season, next generation is humiliating to watch.

1430
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:11.400
Yeah, it's not like they that by kind of trying to distance

1431
01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:13.920
themselves from the original series they managed to create

1432
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:18.719
flawlessly grown up and sensible drama.

1433
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:23.099
They were looking at, let there be our last battlefield and say

1434
01:02:23.099 --> 01:02:24.300
well, that's very embarrassing.

1435
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.340
Half black, half, white faces.

1436
01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:28.800
We're going to do Planet of the African people instead.

1437
01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:32.519
Oh my God, you know, like, I know which one I'd rather watch.

1438
01:02:32.579 --> 01:02:33.119
Yeah.

1439
01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:39.659
And I think that Deep Space 9 is not that, like Deep Space 9 loves

1440
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:43.920
original Trek and absolutely references it.

1441
01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:45.780
It's wrong and Ira band.

1442
01:02:45.780 --> 01:02:47.400
Massive fans.

1443
01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:48.960
And so they're always drinking.

1444
01:02:49.139 --> 01:02:49.739
In one episode.

1445
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:53.159
Odo goes into the bar when he's Curzon Dax.

1446
01:02:53.219 --> 01:02:55.260
When you know when Jadz does that, Rachel.

1447
01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:57.900
And he goes into the bar and goes, 2 tronions, please.

1448
01:02:58.260 --> 01:03:02.280
And they do references like that all the time to TOS.

1449
01:03:02.340 --> 01:03:06.360
Well, and, you know, like they've got the original Cleons back as

1450
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.880
sort of guest characters and stuff like that.

1451
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:13.139
So I think that they're that they're more into it. trials and

1452
01:03:13.139 --> 01:03:15.179
tribulations Yeah, of course.

1453
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:16.800
The ultimate love layers, TOS.

1454
01:03:16.860 --> 01:03:17.400
Yeah.

1455
01:03:17.460 --> 01:03:21.420
And then and then I think, you know, enterprise has a weird

1456
01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:26.760
relationship with with TOS where it starts season.

1457
01:03:26.820 --> 01:03:27.480
Yeah.

1458
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:30.300
Well, I think it just starts off as a sequel to 1st contact and

1459
01:03:30.300 --> 01:03:34.559
that Berman and Braga aren't really interested in original Star

1460
01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:35.099
Trek.

1461
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:38.579
And then when Manikoto takes over and no one gives a shit anymore

1462
01:03:38.579 --> 01:03:40.739
and they probably cancelled.

1463
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:45.599
They do they do that 2 part um mirror universe episode and then

1464
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:47.820
deck everyone out in original series costume.

1465
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:48.420
It's amazing.

1466
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:49.019
Good.

1467
01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:52.980
And then like you say, Kurtzman Trek just loves all of Star Trek.

1468
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:55.199
And they especially love the original series.

1469
01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:58.380
They go back to Talos 4, whatever it's called.

1470
01:03:58.380 --> 01:03:59.219
Yeah, yeah.

1471
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:01.920
The cage. you know, in a fantastic episode.

1472
01:04:01.980 --> 01:04:02.880
Yeah.

1473
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:07.739
And I think that there's no way that the DMA isn't inspired by the

1474
01:04:07.739 --> 01:04:08.880
Doomsday machine.

1475
01:04:08.940 --> 01:04:13.199
So, and again, they're halfway through that season, people were

1476
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:14.760
saying, is it the doomsday machine?

1477
01:04:14.820 --> 01:04:16.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1478
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:16.559
Yeah.

1479
01:04:16.619 --> 01:04:19.260
And it's clearly not, but it's clearly inspired by it.

1480
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:22.679
And, you know, the big central thing at the end of series 4 is

1481
01:04:22.679 --> 01:04:27.420
that this thing is heading towards Earth and Navarre and that's

1482
01:04:27.420 --> 01:04:30.780
the same problem that we're experiencing here with a doomsday

1483
01:04:30.780 --> 01:04:34.380
machine heading towards Rygel and we have a, like, countdown and

1484
01:04:34.380 --> 01:04:34.800
stuff.

1485
01:04:34.860 --> 01:04:39.300
And I think Discovery Series 4 is really effective and maybe the

1486
01:04:39.300 --> 01:04:40.980
best season so far.

1487
01:04:40.980 --> 01:04:44.699
And it definitely lifts ideas from this.

1488
01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:49.500
So, swinging it back to the doomsday machine, then, yeah.

1489
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:52.679
I'm going to do a definitive answer to your question now.

1490
01:04:52.739 --> 01:04:56.099
The reason why this is so good compared to others is it's not

1491
01:04:56.099 --> 01:05:02.519
contend to simply be, you know, a passable space procedural, which

1492
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:03.420
it could have been.

1493
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:07.920
It's aspiring to be bloody good TV and it is.

1494
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:18.000
Yeah All right, it's time for us to choose our next episode, and

1495
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:22.679
I'm here at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and I

1496
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:27.300
have my finger hovering over the button, and I have no stipulation

1497
01:05:27.300 --> 01:05:32.219
for the upcoming episode, except that it is going to be animated.

1498
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:33.480
Oh, what?

1499
01:05:33.539 --> 01:05:34.320
You're going...

1500
01:05:34.380 --> 01:05:36.239
Oh, it's lower decks or the animated series.

1501
01:05:36.300 --> 01:05:37.380
Or prodigy.

1502
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:39.360
Oh, how interesting.

1503
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:41.400
We haven't done that before.

1504
01:05:41.460 --> 01:05:43.380
I mean, I'm going to say one, Pino.

1505
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.199
I don't imagine it's gonna be better than what we've watched

1506
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:47.579
today.

1507
01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:47.940
No.

1508
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:49.559
Roll it and we'll see.

1509
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:50.820
We'll see what happens.

1510
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:57.300
The jihad, your random Star Trek, the animated series, episode is

1511
01:05:57.300 --> 01:06:01.320
the jihad, nearly no way that's not going to be racist, but I

1512
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:03.239
haven't the faintest idea what it is.

1513
01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:04.260
Oh dear.

1514
01:06:04.260 --> 01:06:05.099
No idea.

1515
01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:06.480
All right, let's roll it again.

1516
01:06:06.539 --> 01:06:07.199
Okay.

1517
01:06:07.260 --> 01:06:08.579
Maybe this wasn't such a good idea.

1518
01:06:09.059 --> 01:06:11.699
Time amuck. we done that?

1519
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:13.619
Yeah, that's what we did.

1520
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:14.579
That's right.

1521
01:06:14.579 --> 01:06:16.619
That's never happened before.

1522
01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:19.679
We've actually never rolled one before that we've already done.

1523
01:06:19.739 --> 01:06:22.679
We should just go with it and do an animated series episode.

1524
01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:24.539
We've got to do it at some point, all right?

1525
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:24.960
Yeah.

1526
01:06:25.559 --> 01:06:30.780
Okay, your random Star Trek, the animated series, episode is the

1527
01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:35.340
time trap, season one, episode 12.

1528
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:37.619
The time travel?

1529
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:38.400
That sounds amazing.

1530
01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:41.039
You know, I think calls in this episode.

1531
01:06:41.099 --> 01:06:42.719
Oh, you do not.

1532
01:06:42.780 --> 01:06:45.539
You just looked it up on Memory Alpha.

1533
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:47.699
And then I edited that bit out.

1534
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:49.079
We had no idea.

1535
01:06:49.139 --> 01:06:52.079
Excuse me, I think you're happy to edit these episodes to make

1536
01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:52.980
yourself look really clever.

1537
01:06:53.460 --> 01:06:56.760
Well, no, I did admit to editing out myself looking. looking

1538
01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:57.300
something up.

1539
01:06:57.360 --> 01:06:59.460
Something like fairly reasonable.

1540
01:06:59.460 --> 01:07:04.860
They're off into an unknown region of space that has the word.

1541
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:06.659
The Delphic expanse.

1542
01:07:06.780 --> 01:07:09.360
Delta the Delta Quadrant, the Delta Square.

1543
01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:10.920
Delta Triangle.

1544
01:07:10.980 --> 01:07:11.400
Yeah.

1545
01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:12.119
Yeah.

1546
01:07:12.179 --> 01:07:14.940
Well, because the Bermuda Triangle was huge in the 70s when this

1547
01:07:14.940 --> 01:07:15.360
was out.

1548
01:07:15.420 --> 01:07:17.880
So this is a space Bermuda triangle, I think.

1549
01:07:17.940 --> 01:07:20.880
And we have, you know, who knows?

1550
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:23.099
It's probably going to be really terrible but let's do it.

1551
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:24.719
I think is going to be incredible.

1552
01:07:24.780 --> 01:07:26.639
It's the animated series.

1553
01:07:26.699 --> 01:07:27.539
Are they shorter episodes?

1554
01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:29.039
Yeah, they're about 30 minutes.

1555
01:07:29.099 --> 01:07:30.239
Oh, okay.

1556
01:07:30.300 --> 01:07:31.739
So a bit like...

1557
01:07:31.739 --> 01:07:33.539
Lower decks and...

1558
01:07:33.539 --> 01:07:38.159
Yeah, so lower decks and prodigy tend to come in at about 25

1559
01:07:38.159 --> 01:07:42.059
minutes, you know, which is a normal half hour episode length, you

1560
01:07:42.059 --> 01:07:43.260
know, with ads or whatever.

1561
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:45.239
So this is slightly longer than that.

1562
01:07:45.300 --> 01:07:46.619
And it is simpler.

1563
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:48.239
It is pitched at children, I think.

1564
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:51.000
And we don't think that's a bad thing.

1565
01:07:51.059 --> 01:07:55.320
I think it will be interesting to contrast the animated series

1566
01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:59.280
pitch to children and prodigy, pitch of children and see what they

1567
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:00.840
were going for in those 2 different eras.

1568
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:03.659
One thing I can predict is we're probably going to laugh a lot.

1569
01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:05.940
Yeah, let's hope so.

1570
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:18.239
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1571
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:19.500
and Nathan Bottomley.

1572
01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:23.220
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you

1573
01:08:23.220 --> 01:08:25.739
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1574
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:29.939
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisran, and the theme was composed

1575
01:08:29.939 --> 01:08:31.199
by Cameron Lamb.

1576
01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:35.279
This episode was recorded on the 12th of April, 2022 and released

1577
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:36.840
on the 29th of April.

1578
01:08:36.899 --> 01:08:40.619
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the animated series, The

1579
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:41.399
Time Track.