Hey, Joe. Hi.
Today, it's really Star Trek at its kind of most Star Trek.
What is it that we're watching?
We are watching the season 5 episode Power Play.
And you know what?
I've got a startling revelation for you before we even begin.
You were super enthusiastic about the prospect at the end of last
episode, I think.
I think this is one of those episodes, the more you watch it, the
shiter it gets, you know.
Honest to God.
But no, that's not my revelation.
My revelation is, we've done, how many, what next generation
episodes have we done now?
We did yesterday's Enterprise.
Yeah.
Descend one and two, all good things, all good things, subrosa.
Sub-Rosa. there another one?
I don't know.
I think that's all.
So unmemorable.
We forgotten about it.
So we've done we've done like kind of across tea in Germany.
Three, five, seven.
Even I'm not entirely sure that Star Trek the Next Generation is
any good, you know.
I'm starting to come to this conclusion Because we have, we have, I
know we've only done 5 or 6 episodes.
Yeah.
But this has not been the best of what we've watched.
Aside from yesterday's Enterprise, which was startlingly good.
And I don't get me wrong.
I do think the next generation can hit some incredible highs and I
think it does.
But I'm starting to come to the opinion that perhaps maybe half of
its input, and I said this last week, and I'm more convinced of it
than ever after watching this, because I really used to rate this
episode, and I was very bored come the end of it, that maybe half
the run of TNG isn't very good.
And I think it's trading on its reputation and its popularity at
the time.
So I think, you know, let's let's do the maths.
You've got series one and series two.
Uh, each of those series has maybe massive problems.
Well, they both have massive problems.
Maybe they have a decent episode or 2 in them, series one.
Maybe they're screaming endorsement, is it?
Series 2 has maybe a higher strike rate, but you know, I can think
of 2 or 3 that are really great.
So it's maybe...
Not good.
And then and then it sort of comes along.
And I think from 3 to 5 or 3 to six.
I think it has a fairly solid hit rate, and then 7, as we've said
before, is them kind of running out of steam a little bit and
perhaps being a little bit too distracted by multitasking or
something.
But I think you're right there when you say the words fairly
solid.
Because I think even within those mid-seasons.
And I do think there are terrific episodes.
Yesterday, Enterprise is one, ninth degree, that one with Barclay
all the lightning coming out of his head, family, best of both
worlds.
You know, this show can absolutely deliver.
But within that, I think there probably is a good handful of fair
so middling stuff as well.
Yeah, but I think that the fair to middling stuff is sort of
fairly competently executed.
The disadvantage that Star Trek the Next Generation has over
Voyager and Deep Space 9 is that it's being created in a world
that hasn't had Star Trek for a while.
And it's the same problem that Discovery has.
You can visibly see discovery working out what the hell it wants
to be.
And it also takes a couple of times.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, that's also, hang on, hang on, though.
That's also the most exciting thing about it as well, because when
TNG gets its act together, it's, you, you know, you get very
excited for the show.
You love him watching it.
And the same with Discovery as well.
Well, that's right.
And so when Voyager does sort of a time anomaly or a space loop or
you know, the ship gets fragmented into lots of different time
zones and stuff, the problem is that you're thinking that...
Well, this is a bit like, you know, timescapes or something or or
cause and effects only not as good.
Whereas Star Trek the Next Generation is breaking that ground, it's
the 1st Star Trek to have, you know, like big galactic things
happening with the, with the Klingons, for instance.
It has the Borg introduced.
When cause and effect was 1st screened or when yesterday's
enterprise or even something sort of fairly mundane, like clues
they were something that original Star Trek hadn't done, and this
was doing sort of competent family friendly TV science fiction
just really very well, I think.
And so I'm not as down on this week as you are because I think
this is just a standard hostage procedural, like you might get on
a cop show.
And I think it does make a good decision about what it is that
lets our characters win.
Like I think it does a good job of saying something in the
conclusion sort of thing.
Otherwise, I think, you know, it's competent people solving space
problems, and that seems to me to be really central to Star Trek.
And don't get wrong, some of those episodes are really, really
enjoyable to watch, but there's 179 episodes here.
There's only so many ways you can do the Great Detective in space
isn't there?
Like, yeah, with, you know, some mundane episodes thrown to the
wayside.
I think as well, I think I spend a lot of time comparing this to
what comes after.
And I don't think it mentioned, like, when I, like, when we
watched Nepenthe, and I see how Troy and Riker were characterised
and I feel to myself, well, they wasted Troy for 7 years because
she could have been this good.
They didn't give them relationship like this, and it could have
been this good.
You know, and I look at DS9 and and I see a show that learns and
develops and frankly gets better year after year, whereas I see a
show in Next Generation where they started rough, they found out
what they were doing.
They hit a sort of pan and then it just went off a cliff.
And I don't understand that either.
I'm not saying TNG is all terrible.
I'm not.
I'm just saying I think it is a competent science fiction show.
I don't think it's the all conquering classic that Trek fans make
it out to be.
I think there is much better trek than what's here.
Well, I think that I think that's true, but there is something
about the purity of this that I like.
And I, you know, when we were watching Discovery, when we watch
Forget Me Not, the fact that there were interesting character
relationships that it had something to say, that it had a thematic
unity, that it was visually impressive.
All of those things, I think, are massive pluses.
And I think that they are the sort of things that make for good
TV.
And this episode doesn't really have that.
Like no one's relationship is explored.
Everyone is...
There's no substance there's jobs.
No, no, I don't think that's true.
I don't think that's true.
I think there is substance to it, but I do think that basically
the pleasure of this kind of Star Trek isn't the same pleasure
that you get from watching Deep Space 9 or, you know, later trek
which are much more character focussed, which are telling stories
about people or sitcom characters or doing interesting things with
combinations of different people.
This is watching clever people do their jobs well in a framework
where the roles are known.
Depending on how well it's written.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think this one does actually do that.
I think they do do their jobs well.
And I also think the other pleasure that's unique to this one is
getting 3 very well.
Well, 2 well-known regulars and one kind of reasonably familiar
secondary character to play against type.
And I think that works particularly well and particularly for
Marina, actually.
Like, I don't, I don't want to be like a massive Debbie Downer on
Star Trek the Next Generation.
Like, it's hugely popular.
It's most people's favourite.
And there's a reason for that, you know.
It's just it's never going to be mine.
And I think like the more we're going back and watching it.
I'm just like, oh, it's okay.
It's okay.
It's okay television, but it's rarely exceptional television.
And like you said, even that's not a problem because comfort TV
there's absolutely... what's going on in the world right now.
We need as much come for TV as we can possibly get.
I'm just surprised.
I'm surprised by my reaction to it.
And I think sometimes when you go back and you watch things that
you had such a strong reaction to as a child.
You can surprise yourself, you know?
Yeah.
But as far as, like, you're right.
There's very little characterisation, it does have a moral point
but it's a bit underdeveloped and a little bit thin. you know, good
people are good.
But I think that there's kind of competently executed action
people doing the roles that we know that they have.
That's it.
You know, I guess it's the reason that eventually discovery goes
from being a few kind of side characters on this spaceship to just
basically being about the main guys, you know, the crew and the
people on the bridge and stuff.
And I think because so much of Star Trek's DNA is these are the
jobs these people have and we're going to watch them do those jobs
in order to solve the problems.
And even Deep Space 9 does that.
Like a lot of the characters, there's Dr. Bashir and Constable Odo
and so on.
And so they are kind of known by their jobs, but I think that
because Deep Space 9 is serialised and because it isn't afraid to
shake up the formula, it's not being syndicated, it doesn't have
to be watched out of order.
I think in DS9, they'll do interesting things with those people in
those roles.
So Cisco is both a Starfleet commander and the emissary of the
Prophets and is torn between the two.
Kira's a terrorist or was a terrorist and now she's an
administrator. and in the 1st 2 series she's torn between the
two.
Like they've they've almost like learned the lessons from TNG.
We've got to make these characters a bit more interesting in order
for this to run.
Yeah, that's right.
And I think, you know, part of the problem too is that Roddenbury
had a huge hand in kind of deciding who the characters would be
from the get go.
And, you know, you look at like Riker and Deanna, who are just
sort of Decker and I Leah from phase 2 or the motion picture.
You know, he's clearly had this idea for how he's going to do it.
And there are some good ideas there.
Like, I think data is a good idea.
I think Yar is a good idea.
But there's not really very much to them.
And I'm not sure how much better, for instance, Voyager does at
making the characters interesting.
I think what Voyager does is it's probably been able to attract
some more kind of experienced TV actors or something, and it has
some really, really great performers.
But like we've complained before about Tom Paris, who is just
expert on whatever the plot needs him to be this week.
This week, he's really into comments.
And it also is full of episodes that just warm over things that
were discovered by Star Trek, the next generation.
But they're kind of like their TNG episodes done again with, I
feel like more money, or at least they've learned how to execute
them a bit better.
So they feel a bit more kind of, not dynamic.
Well, yeah, dynamic.
But as well, I think one of the problems of changing it.
I promise we'll go into the episode in a minute.
But I think this stuff is worth, like, we're going back and
revisiting this stuff for a reason.
It's worth commenting about this stuff Um, is that Gene Robin
Berry basically took Rick Bermanon as a protégé and said, this is
the Star Trek.
This is how I want to make it, okay?
And I don't want any tension between any of the characters.
Yawn.
And, you know, and I want sleazy sex in there and I want, basically
you know, these are the rules.
And then Robin Murray, very sad, drops off his perch and Rick
Berlin's left in charge of the show.
And Rick Berman is like, right, we're going to do this the way
Gene wanted to do it.
Like, we're going to withhold his legacy and we're going to write
to you.
And then Michael Piller comes in in season three.
And he's like, well, now this show's got to be about the
characters.
And he literally would always say to all of his writers, character
first.
All right, we've got the plots.
We've got these one line plots from all these writers that are
coming in pitching character first.
Keep writing about the characters.
And he was trying to drive that, but there was this struggle
between Pillar and Berman and these 2 approaches.
And I think this is where you end up in some bland middle grounds
you know, of like no one developing.
Yeah, although I think that...
Like, just for me, because this was my 1st Star Trek, and it was a
particular age, you know, like I just finished high school or
whatever, and, you know, I sort this out, and I think that, you
know, the performers eventually kind of settle into doing things
that they're good at.
And I do think that there is, there's the germ of that charm that
you detected in Nepenthe there from time to time.
Sure, the charisma and the chemistry between the cast is
unforgettable.
It's probably the best.
Maybe DS9.
No, it's probably the best.
Um, and I would never...
I wouldn't disagree with that.
I don't know.
I just see a series of potentially waste opportunity and that's a
shame.
Yeah, I think, look, that's that might be fair, but I also think
that that the main aim here might be one that you're not so
sympathetic with, which is the rottenberry idea, that this is a
procedural.
It's not a serial. interestingly, I don't watch any other
procedural shows.
I don't watch any medical dramas.
I don't watch any daytime soaps or anything like that.
So maybe this just isn't.
Well, you know, I think a daytime soap has more in common with
Deep Space 9 than it does with Star Trek than Ex Generation.
And that's, you know, science fiction, fandom, and soap fandom are
pretty similar in lots of ways.
I think our baby got beamed into someone's womb, you know, in
Dallas once.
Very similar.
Which you know what?
It's going to be get being, being downer on TNG.
Maybe we should watch the episode.
Yeah, we'll have fun, trust me.
All right, shall I count us in?
Yeah, let's do it.
Here goes.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Everyone, get down on the floor.
Look, we start with a star date and everything.
It's proper traditional trek.
Half of those deep space 9 episodes. there. on Netflix.
That looks very crisp, you know, those special effects.
I wouldn't be at all surprised because a lot of the original
planets.
Well, no, this is series five.
I can't remember.
The subtitles said statically distress call.
That's all you said.
Oh my god, look at Riker's Pose with his knee.
Yeah.
There's no one more masculine than Will Riker on time.
No, he's there and his boys out there.
I've been over Data's shoulder.
Would you care to just compare the costumes of Picard and Riker
there?
Because Picard seems fitted, but Riker seems very loose.
Well, I think Riker has a tendency to run to fat.
And so maybe that's it.
He did put on, didn't he, over the years?
He did over the years, but I think he's looking pretty good. here
and and he's not doing the sort of combing his hair back thing
that he ends up going with Nathan.
Can I just say, it's never a good sign when Diana Troy is walking
around the back of the scene looking concerned because you know
she's about to come up and give some amazing betasoid wisdom, isn't
she?
Here we go.
This is a great line though.
I'm not sure we have That's awesome, Bless.
And they just turn to look at her.
See, she gets the she gets the line before we just go to the
opening credits.
Look, you know what?
You and me, Dr. U fans.
We've seen some pretty fuzzy CSO shots not time.
They've really mastered that standing in front of their view.
It does look good, though, I think.
Yeah.
Well, we saw it happening for the 1st time, didn't we?
Is it, which one is it?
Is it Kauva Mite maneuver?
Oh, when they stepped in front of the screen?
No, it was Spot's brain.
In my brain.
Jesus Christ, it was too.
They were trying to narrow down which flag.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
So can I just say, right, so you remember I said to you before how
I was explaining the plots of these things to my brother?
was not a Star Trek fan, right?
And he just puts his head in his hands every single time going, oh
God, that just sounds like the stock Star Trek to me.
So I go and say, right.
So this episode, yeah, it's all about 3 of the crew members get
possessed by aliens after a shuttlecraft crashes on the planet and
already his head's in his hands and I was like, I'm just going to
stop there.
This is absolutely stockstanding Star Trek.
This is, you know, as Star Trek as you could possibly get, you
know, it's not an event episode.
It's not anything sort of particularly special.
It is just a day at the office.
No, you may fight me on this, so I think this is executed with a
fair bit of flair, you know?
Oh, yeah, no, I think it's really, it's well done.
This is David Livingston, who I mentioned before as the one
director on Voyager that decided to make it exciting and, you know
as close to a movie as he possibly can.
He often got the big blockbusters because he did deadlock.
Do you remember deadlock when the Vedians came on?
Yeah, yeah, that shit, really?
Good episodes. amazingly good.
Or that one.
Do you remember the one where the shuttlecraft, the Kazon
Shuttlecraft, Pierce's Voyager?
into the cargo bay and they've literally got the whole, a massive
shuttle bay in the ceiling hanging out of the ceiling.
It looks amazing.
How I play.
Wow, I wonder what this is about then.
Super boring.
Here we go.
Sorry, the shuttle crowd.
Look at the clouds.
Look at this little shuttle pod. so cute.
Look at this.
No, no.
I think this is on a gimbal.
I think the reasons they're in this tony thing.
It's on a gimbal because Deanna's hair is like following the force
of gravity, right?
And she's sitting up the back doing some very uncomfortable
looking acting while they have to deliver life.
I mean, listen, got fucking dry ice outside the window.
It's so great.
It's the same bit of dry ice there.
It strikes me as absolutely surprisingly dynamic for Star Trek the
next generation.
It's great.
There's a physicality to it.
It's awesome You can imagine the actor's like, oh, God, we're
going to that simulator again.
Yeah.
Great part of, though, has kept his composure look very well.
But look how unhappy Marina looks.
Nathan her hair looks fabulous, you know?
It always does, honestly.
I have to say, right, we're not there yet, but any chance this
show gets to make her evil.
It's just amazing.
All right.
I think she's, look, and now we're rolling the camera.
Fuck off.
No, wait, wait, wait.
It's kind of been a stop shot, but he's decided to do a crane shot
over a rock to show the shuttle pod crashed surrounded by
someone.
That is not bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this is this is the planet hell set.
That's what they used to call it, and it had like sand and stuff
in it.
Is it the same one that they shoved Jordan LaFour job without
Romulan?
Yeah, yeah.
So that's the enemy, I think.
That's a good episode, though.
It's a good episode.
And they like that set really well.
I mean, you know, it's never going to be anything other than a set
but I think it makes all the difference, you know, when they turn
the lights down and they don't have a different coloured sky
backdrop.
It just looks far more convincing, you know, less more like a
studio.
Yeah.
Well, I believe I see stock cave set number 52 behind them there.
There's only stock cave set number one.
We've never stopped their numbers.
I'll never stop doing it.
But I could bloody have the dry ice machines going on over time.
Yeah, isn't it?
Yeah Well, it's covering the set, which helps. covered the floor.
But in season one, they didn't even bother doing that.
You just had, you know, the sand all the time.
But I mean, Marina complains about like sand because she's wearing
terrible betazoid contact lenses and stuff.
And so all of the sand in the set and stuff was particularly
uncomfortable.
And then there's a stunt that she's about to do where I think she
breaks her coccyx, doesn't she?
Yeah, she flies back and then she complains in an interview
later.
She goes, it could have been Michael Dawn or Wolf or anyone.
Yeah, they could be Michael in my uniform and you would never have
known.
When they get shocked, They literally all jump back in unison.
It looks amazing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think they're on like elastic or something.
I got a question for you.
Why is it some row in this episode?
Because it feels like a waste of her character.
Oh, so she's she's like, so Wesley leaves midway through series 4
and then they have Ensign Gates and various other people who are
you know, Ensign McKnight.
There are just a few a few kind of rotating female officers on the
panels in the bridge.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And occasionally they get a line and stuff.
And so clearly they decide that they're going to introduce another
character so that they can have conflict among the regulars.
I think that was pillar again, though.
Did deliberately bring a conflict to the ship, you know?
Yeah.
And so they bring her on and she gets her own episode like early
in the season.
And then there are plenty of episodes here where she's just the
you know, explores what she think.
I think if you look across the run, I think she's only in about 11
episodes or something like that.
Okay, yeah, not a minute.
And you know, one of them is the one where she gets turned into
the kid.
That's so funny.
She's a wonderful scene with Guiden, where Guiden says six.
Use crayons.
They can take you to more places than the starship.
I love that episode.
But like, the thing is, is Michelle Forbes is in high demand at
this point, you know, and they were like, they were begging her to
come and do Battlestar Galactica and things like that because
she'd gone on to do like good work.
To see her being used, just, you know, person at the console or
person who gets them in the ring later on.
It's, it feels like a bit of waste of a good actress, is all.
Here we go.
So why are they setting these things up?
So these are pattern enhances.
And I was thinking about them because they only ever appear in
Star Trek the next generation.
I't think they appear afterwards.
So I'm guessing they're like physical keyboards on mobile phones
that just for like maybe 20 years we need these pattern enhancers
because they use them again in ship in a bottle and a couple of
other places.
It's a really good episode, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And you sort of set them up so that you can beam.
It gives O'Brien a reason to come down.
I think.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
Did you notice the special effect then of the weird sea of ghosts
coming down?
And then those cute little lights going into them.
Oh, I love this bit.
Zoom in old Marina's eye, eh?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
I said this to you the other week.
We've been through this possession, Malarkey, enough times now
that you know, when someone wakes up screaming the red, I'm like
well, she's possessed.
Get her to a cell.
Well, she had a little bit of light going, you know, in series two
episode one.
So either she's possessed or pregnant, I think, is what's
happening here. was fantastic about these scenes.
Because I said to you, I really love the 1st 15 minutes of this, is
there's a subtlety to their performances in these, in these early
scenes, which I think is a bit abandoned when they're revealed to
be villains, like.
But even the way they, in a minute, they walk to a turbo lift with
Picard and Riker, and they're even walking a little bit
differently to the way they look.
And I'm just like there's something just a little bit off about
all of this.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a shot of them, like all 5 of the characters in the turbo
lift.
And maybe it's not particularly subtle, but they're all kind of
you know, you've got Riker and and the captain in the foreground
and then the 3 possessed people in the background and they're all
looking like super shifty and stuff, which is pretty great.
Could I ask you a question about the turbo lists?
Yeah.
I mean, how do they, they don't just go up and down like a lift, do
they?
No.
They go up and down and across sign. yeah.
But they go diagonally too. any direction. don't know.
There's always shafts, isn't there, in Star Trek?
It's really weird.
We see the inside of the shaft in Star Trek the Next Generation a
bunch of times, don't we?
Well, we see it in your favourite disaster when Picardo's
irritating children up.
That's awesome.
But then in Star Trek Discovery, they've just decided that it's a
big weird eccentric space that's in the middle of the ship that
can't possibly fit there, but we don't care because it gives us
good visuals, I think.
There's nothing wrong with me at all, but I really think we should
take this podcast to the southern polar region.
Okay?
All right.
What's with this southern polar region all of a sudden?
Everyone's obsessed with it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, see, this isn't bad, is it?
That's data delivering his understood, sirline normally, but with
a like really sort of concerned look on his face.
I think there's something really good about this, right?
Because the way.
So Deanna's the leader, isn't she?
And she is like cold and absolutely no nonsense and quite strong.
She walks in in a minute and she's half of 10 forward.
Well, I thought she's really great.
She's so good.
And then you've got, like, I guess...
Data's a bully.
Like a bit of a...
Because he's using his fist a lot, isn't he?
He's like smashes the corridor, doesn't it?
The glass in the corridor.
Oh, he just punch Riker in the chest.
Oh my god.
Okay.
We can't hear the music, but I really like the music in this scene
da da da da da.
Did you see who it was?
Oh, we just shot row.
Um, They still haven't quite got.
It's like one person shoots, one person shoots.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But you know what?
It's interesting.
You make Troy, because it's a male ghost in Troy, isn't it?
And so she's suddenly quite masculine.
And you make Data a bully, and that's scary because he's got like
super strength.
And you make Cole meanie, a weird pervert.
And that's just creepy.
Because he plays that to the hill.
Yeah, it's really funny because I was trying to sort of devise a
theory where they were just sort of being made to play their
opposites.
And then I realised basically at this point in the show, what?
He's had data's day and the wounded.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But he, you know, like, wouldn't say large.
Yeah, he's basically, he's usually standing at that transport.
I mean, he's a solid guy.
He's a non-cannibalistic pervert or whatever the hell he is.
I'm going to say again, Nathan.
Non-pervert.
He jumps over to DS9 and suddenly they start doing interesting
things with him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look at these guys' pants.
Did you see the guy in the background?
Jesus Christ.
Is that one of the regulars?
Is that Patricia Tallman from Babylon 5?
Because it looks just like a...
She's great falling down acting in a minute.
Security lady.
She's...
But then can I, can I, you have to indulge me in doing this, but
the music, when they ran around that corridor, it's like, da, da
da, da, da, da, da, I like the orchestra.
I don't care what you say, all right?
I think it's great when they go a little bit more exciting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's better than insert ad break here, which is the usual...
Whilst I was praising this on a group on a chat we had was, yeah, I
can't even notice it.
Sorry.
I noticed nothing at all. just rude.
J.
Chatterway sweated his bollocks off for 7 seasons, all right?
I do remember Jay Chataway and thinking, yeah, he's all right.
He did do some good scores I think.
This is a bit like they, the baby's there, isn't it, to make this
more tense.
Yeah, yeah.
Because they focussed straight on the baby when they went to tend
forward, you know.
So it's like the baby's in danger with them coming.
Yeah.
And that's, you know, that's, it is a little bit of a kind of gun
hostage siege cliche, isn't it?
don't you think?
Like, it's like, I can imagine a police procedural doing this and
having a, yeah.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Look, watch how she falls down.
She's going for it, isn't she?
Good honour.
And look at this.
Troy, she is, she's just...
Yeah.
So good.
That guy was going for a leap.
Give her a gun and let her shoot everybody, you know?
And look at Marina's face.
She is loving it.
Marina is loving this.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, she has to play such a good girl all the time and
she's not a good girl.
She's opening script up and gone, bloody hell.
They finally give me something to do.
It's amazing.
And you know what, though, right?
Okay.
It is a truth that when people are called upon to behave possessed
they tend to lose their ability to act in any way, shape, or
form.
And I think there is a little bit of that going on.
Oh, but I, like what sort of, what sort of acting you out?
Subtle nuanced sort of acting.
Yeah, you're not gonna get that.
She's like, yes, Bridge.
We can hear you.
Awesome.
I love that.
But she's kind of, you know, drawing on her childhood memories of
watching Blake 7 and deciding, I'm a fabulously made up villain
with a gun.
This is our door.
It must be the most boring job in the Enterprise, standing at that
transporter pad, waiting for someone to ring you and say, right, we
need you to do something.
Someone needs to do a lower decks episode.
When O'Brien says that in a DS9 episode.
He goes, do you remember I can't tell you how bored I used to be
on the Enterprise?
Just stand there, wait for someone to beam down onto the planet.
There's a lot of red going on in the bridge right now, isn't
there?
Yeah, they're always these.
That's why I think they decide to do those deep Space 9 uniforms
in black.
It's a little bit too much red.
I mean, I'm pleased they're doing the hostage scenario in 10
forward because I think it's the most interesting say on the ship
actually.
Oh, yeah.
It's really interesting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a great show.
Surely this would be one episode where you'd have going in there.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I think you do save Guyan for special occasions and this
is absolutely not a special occasion.
Isn't there one episode, though, where I'll go and get some
massive gun out from under the bar?
It would be great, but the climax and then she goes, oh, I've had
enough of this.
Just shot off.
But so I really, really like, and we kind of, because we're
talking, we're not sort of paying super close attention to the
fact that they're all competent, and that's, that's the pleasure
in this, is that they're all very good at their jobs.
They all come up with good ideas and they with one really notable
moment of fantastic, inadvertent incompetence here.
And it just doesn't work for them.
And I think that's like there's a pleasure in that.
It's like a heist or something.
You know, here's our plan.
We're going to do the thing.
Something goes wrong.
It doesn't quite work out.
I mean, there's a pleasure in that, I think.
Actually, do you know what?
Like the last 3 we've done. descent, wasn't it?
And that was supposed to be a riff on cultism, wasn't it?
And then we did Subroso, which was like a Gothic fantasy and led
into those cliches.
Now we're doing...
Yeah, police official scenario and leaning into those cliches.
So maybe this is a more adaptable formula, plot wise. than perhaps
I was suggesting earlier.
Yeah, but it and it's fun just seeing.
Oh, well, I mean, the trouble is...
Do you not reckon that Admiral Nachev is getting all of these
reports from Picard and going, well, look, the Enterprise has been
taken over again.
You people are alive.
It happens all the time. happens all the time.
Every ship. you know, but they didn't really notice that 3 of them
were evil and until they shot down half of 10 forwards.
They were behaving very well.
I mean, the last time Troy was evil, or was it in the future?
Oh no, it's in season six.
That's the best evil episode of all time.
Has she actually been evil before?
No, although I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't want it to be an
occupational hazard of being evil.
Yeah.
Which is enough in 7 seasons.
She's great at this, though.
I think she's really good.
I really enjoyed her performance in this.
Well, it just made me wish for her to be more of a badass
normally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, we don't want her saying, hi, Bev, any erotic dreams lately?
It's dead.
We want to walk around with a gun, you know?
Like, yeah, like Kira and dad, you know?
Yeah.
I did find the performances of Brent Spiner and Columini a little
bit unnerving.
They are leaning into unpleasant masculine traits that are a bit.
But, you know, intentionally, I think, because that's how you
characterise criminals, you know, the, like he's a bully.
Spiner's character, like the whoever's possessing him is a small
man, you know, like he's threatening war.
You know, he's found himself in Data's body and now he wants to
beat up Worf because Worf's the toughest guy in the room.
And so, you know, that's a fairly standard cliche kind of
character.
And the trouble is that we have seen Brent be evil stacks of times
at this point.
And it's always roughly the same.
We're going to see him be evil quite a few times.
Yeah, before the show's out.
Yeah, yeah.
Marine Church probably was sitting there looking at those scripts
going, well, why does he get to have all the fun?
Yeah, and I think it was really good in it.
I reckon she's got the best part.
What's wonderful about this whole scenario now is that they
obviously need to try and find a way to get the ghosts out of our
three, yeah?
And so if this was a lower decks episode, they would cover all
these cliches in about 2.5 minutes.
We've got to spend the next half an hour doing front paces of
trying to get them in a little circle and all the other ways, you
know.
But again, you know, it is...
The twist here is that they don't actually end up solving the
problem through their cleverness.
There's another thing that they do that enables them to solve the
problem.
And it's at the heart of what makes them different from the 3
criminals who've taken over the bridge.
And, you know, one of the things, one of the problems with the
police procedural is, of course, that the police are good guys and
the, uh, and the cops are bad guys and that's absolutely an
oversimplification about what's going on.
And there's never any explanation for, you know, why the criminals
are bad.
The criminals are bad just because they're kind of morally
terrible people.
And so this does go in that direction.
Like this basically does do that.
I think.
Isn't there this massive feint that they're like an old starship
that crashed years ago.
So they're posing as Starfleet officers and when they're nothing
of the kind, are they?
No, no.
And I think we fall for it.
Do you think we fall for it?
For a bit, and I think you need the twist at that point because at
that point, the hostage scenarios got to a point where you're like
okay, well, we're going for the motions of all of this.
And then she's like, oh, no, we're a bunch of Starfleet officers
and we just want to, you know, be reunited with our crew.
And that's potentially quite interesting.
Yeah.
But, you know, like obviously their behaviour means that they're
not Starfleet officers and they have to kind of try and square
that.
But they've kind of willing to believe them for a bit.
But I think, does Picard ever believe them?
I can't remember.
Not sure.
Is she unconscious or is she just having a nap?
She's just overwhelmed by everything and thought she'd take a
little mid hostage situation nap.
This is so creepy in a minute where O'Brien goes up to Keiko and
the baby.
And he doesn't like make advances, does he?
But he gets a little close.
There's one really creepy line, I think.
So that she's complaining that the baby is scared because of, I
don't know, like the baby's crying because she's scared.
I think she's a fucking, she doesn't know what's going on.
She can't focus on anything like more than 2 feet away at this
point.
She's probably just got gas or something.
Did you see how they underlit Colomini there to make him look like
a ghoul?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's lit from below.
Can you please drop your startling revelation about Rosalind Cheo
and Columini, please, what you said to me in the chat?
Oh, well, I thought she was better than him in this.
And maybe. is a fact, you know.
Very often in niche shows. the the secondary characters are the
best actors.
She's very good and obviously she sort of always continued to get
work and stuff, but I thought, you know, she was particularly good
in this.
And I guess the last time we were here in a sort of similar
situation was disaster earlier in the season, wasn't it, when
Molly was born?
You think Warf would be avoiding Keiko in 10-4, wouldn't you?
That's right.
But we do need Keiko there because otherwise, who the hell did we
care about this bunch?
Yeah that's right.
And she's the only regular character who's a civilian.
Isn't she the only semi-regular character who's just, she's just a
botanist or something, or is she a Starfleet botanist?
I don't know. but she's not a soldier or anything.
She spent a lot of time making that very dull arboretum place
though. very boring, wasn't it?
That's sad.
Bad, sad.
Go on, say it again.
They could have just gone outside.
I know.
Yeah, that's right.
Do you know whether a trees?
Shot it in a park.
Do you know where there are trees?
Do you know where there's a place where there's not churches made
out of plywood?
Outside.
Okay, here we go.
Right.
Negotiation time now.
Yeah, but look, look, look.
Look, Brent's doing his sort of scowly cab face.
Look at that.
Whereas Deanna.
Whereas where it is at least just to the playing...
Yeah, I really like it.
Yeah, but you know, any chance Brent Sparner's got to be a bit
gump.
He goes for it, doesn't he, you know?
The sons of Soona together again, you know, like...
Well, that's fine.
I mean, need I mention masks?
Mosaka.
I love masks.
And I love Masaka as well.
It's one of my favourite things.
This is the blocking that I love so much where she just goes up to
the camera to stand in front of the camera and she just talks
while everyone looks at her back.
The whole bloody point of this blocking is that you're supposed to
see the reactions of the people behind them.
But they're blurred out.
What's the point?
It's just Marina Science talking to a fucking camera.
Yeah, I know, but you get to see her face and she looks fabulous.
Look at the business.
Brent Spider's got his arms folded now, looking at his, looking at
his nails, looking up to the sky.
He's winning this scene off everybody.
So how do they how do they know all this stuff?
How does how does Marinas possessor know about Admiral Uta, Nasu
of Starbate, Starbase 12?
Really, does it?
Okay.
Like, maybe she read a manual or something or...
I don't think we ever learn, do we?
No, no.
Well, I'm convinced then they must really be Starfleet.
Do you know, did I tell you Michael Piller was scathing about this
episode?
Oh, really?
Because he said he went, you know, it was executed really, really
well.
He said, but we dropped the ball on this script.
He said, we just, it just, it was so empty.
It wasn't about anything in the end of today.
Yeah.
But I think it doesn't have to be about, I mean, look, it would be
better if it was about something, if we could empathise with these
people.
And as it stands, it is, here's a space problem and we're going to
use our ingenuity to solve it and then we'll do something else.
We learn anything about these people.
Obviously, we're learning now who they're not.
Yeah, so we spend a bit of time learning about who they aren't.
Yeah.
So we do learn that they're criminals from some space society and
they've been disembodied and thrown into the winds of this planet
to kind of... state of affairs.
It does seem bad.
Oh, I always love it when they go into these...
Is it just for tubes, yeah.
Yeah.
Nice to be a little bit tight and claustrophobic, you know, the
lights are down.
It's a really funny line.
As we go along in 90s track, they learn how to shoot these scenes
a bit more interesting.
The cameras zoom along them sometimes, you know?
Yeah, in the game. when Wesley being chased about.
This is what Starship designers call easy access.
I think that's correct.
You know what's really funny is, look, that clearly is a very, very
light piece of plastic that I was listening out for the Foley, and
you can hear them doing meshal clanging sound effects, you know?
Brilliant.
I think they take the walls off them too, sometimes.
Like, so they can shoot into them and have the characters walk
past.
They take the wall off the Jeffrey's tube.
Really?
Is this the best they could do?
We're going to create a ring of light and they've got to walk into
it.
So suddenly they're sending smoke signals to the people in 104 say
right, you've got to get them in that ring.
Yeah, yeah, essentially.
I mean, that's all a bit basic, isn't it?
Want to just gas them?
Or we've been through all of this?
No, because yeah, yeah, we've been through it all because part of
the problem is data is possessed.
And so it needs to be something that's going to knock out data and
the other two.
I just remembered something.
I've just remember in season 5 of the Space 9, the assignment
right?
That's the one where Keiko gets possessed by a par race, right?
Right.
And Rosin Chow is fucking chilling in this role, brushing Molly's
hair really slowly and threatening O'Brien, saying, come on, we're
going to go to bed and fuck, even though she's possessed. and all
of this.
It doesn't, doesn't, um, like, uh, Molly cry out.
Ow, mommy, that hurt, you know, like, She's like, oh, darling
don't worry.
I just wanted to let daddy know he's got 4 hours before he can
come home.
Anyway, she's amazing.
At one point she turns to the camera and she goes, if you don't do
what I want, I'm going to kill your wife.
Like, how old is anything?
And you're right. terrific acting.
But sorry, my point of bringing this up is not only that, you know
we've got one of the characters from this episode in a different
possessed episode.
Yeah, but O'Brien talks to the computer in a scene where he goes
through every single thing they tried in this episode in about 3
minutes.
He goes, how about knocking around with a narritazine gas?
How about this?
How is everything from PowerPlay?
He literally goes for everything.
That's tremendous.
And he can't do it.
He can't do it.
And in the end, he asked, what does he do?
Oh, electricity comes from the wormhole and laughs the pile right
out of her.
It's amazing But I will say, I think that is a stronger episode
than this and it's because there is the character focus in there.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
Yeah, I mean, this stuff, you know, you wouldn't do a police
procedural now that was as thin as far, you know, character wise
as this.
And maybe there's, I don't know enough about the history of
American television in the 90s or whatever, but maybe this is kind
of before we start thinking along those lines, because Voyager
does the same thing, you know, years later, it will do a space
problem episode that isn't really directly connected to a hostage
scenario every other week.
Yeah.
I do remember X-Files did a hostage episode like this called
Dwayne Barry in series 2.
Oh, that was exceptionally good.
Yeah, yeah. so well acted.
Oh, is a column media being creepy?
This, Russell.
Yeah, yeah.
And Troy's the one that says, stop it, isn't she?
Fake Troy.
Well, because she's normal.
She's like, she's not a psychopath, you know.
Patrick Stewart's quite happy to get to sit down for most of this
episode.
He's just sitting on the floor.
The southern polar area.
You'd think you get to a point where you'd start to make
provisions for people being taken over, wouldn't you?
You know, they would have things in place.
You've got a scanner that you've got to go for every time you've
been in that says, right, have they been possessed?
Well, how do you tell?
How do you tell?
Well, I don't watch them.
And then Star Trek, the babble.
This is very strange as well.
Like they're ghosts and so they need to be buried and that and
that's what...
That's kind of what alerts Picard, isn't it?
Because he does say, how does that work?
Like, how does that work?
Burying your bones.
You know, um, but just, it's the wrong show for that to be the
solution.
So as well.
Like, even if they're disembodied, angry Starfleet people, they
really wouldn't be behaving like this.
This is not how, listen, that's what alerts him.
He just said to her then.
Like, I'll take you home.
There's no need to do any of this.
Like, you're Starfleet.
I'm Starfleet.
Let's got a deal, you know.
And that is the resolution.
Like the resolution is perhaps a little bit better than pillar
suggests, although it's not superb.
Um, but the resolution is the reason that they win is because they
all of them, including um, including Keiko, love something more
than just themselves and are prepared to sacrifice.
Oh, here we go.
So, is in the ring.
So, all moving into the ring.
And now we're going to press them up the bridge and talk to them
for like 45 seconds and then when we press the button, one of them
wanders out.
Oh, they got to be in the ring for 7 seconds.
But it doesn't matter.
Just press the button as they go in the fucking ring.
Why are you doing dialogue?
What is going on?
Oh, for goodness sake, it's gone.
It would have been quite fun.
Would have been then if the different ghosts went into the
different bodies.
And they're playing something different.
You know that would have been quite fun.
A bit different.
Oh my god, this is hilarious.
And Patrick Stewart is trying to sell being throttled to death by
data brilliantly.
The balls immediately.
Do you think he's on a chair or something on a stool?
I think this is the point where this is the point where Patrick
Stewart was saying, right.
If you want to keep me in this shitty show, I want more romances
and I'm going to direct some episodes, all right?
I just love how the little lights go back inside their chests
bless. kind of cute.
Well, Troy has form with little lights going inside her, you
know?
That's what I think.
That's what I was thinking.
Either she's possessed or pregnant.
Even when alcohol drain the energy off her, there was a little
light that went in there.
Yeah, that's true.
Just a terrible time.
I know why she sticks around if I'm honest with you, yeah.
No.
Shake this into people's boring emotional problems.
She's being possessed.
But you know what?
Looking at this episode dramatically, yeah.
I think the reason why I like the 1st 15 minutes is that there is
a suspense of not knowing where this is going.
Like you know something's off.
They're upside down.
They're flying upside down.
The enterprise is currently upside down, under a planet.
Or over a planet rather.
Under south. know about these things.
And so there is an interest in waiting for them to make their
move.
Yeah.
And I don't think that goes on long enough.
And then I think we spent a bit too long in 10 forward going
through the hostage scenario situation.
Because you skip forward to season 5 of Voyager, Equinox.
They do a two-parter and their whole 1st episode is they meet this
ship, there's something wrong.
Then they the equinox crew start having these conversations, but
they're like, okay, we're going to take over soon.
And then you're just waiting and you're waiting and you're waiting
and the tension ratches up until when they finally get there in
like the last 10 minutes.
It's a really satisfying episode.
And I think sometimes the dramas in waiting for something exciting
to happen rather than the kind of the result of it.
Well, I mean, this is, there's nothing here that you couldn't do
on a police procedural, I guess.
Apart from the possession, maybe.
Not a lot of possession of police procedures.
But the X-Files did that in series one.
But having the, having the, you know, like having just 3 criminals
come into a bar and hold everyone hostage and the police chief has
to go in and negotiate and stuff.
It's kind of played.
And unless you are going to do something interesting.
And I guess for this show, the thing that makes it interesting is
the criminals are played by our 3 regulars.
Seeing them out of character.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that is fun.
That's a non-negligible pleasure.
I like it.
And particularly, I love Marina doing it.
But it's not conceptually a very interesting...
I just think once once I've taken over 10 forward, so narratively
this isn't very interesting anymore.
Yeah.
You're just waiting for them to be defeated because you know that
by the end of this episode, Troy Data and O'Brien are going to be
there for themselves again, you know, and this bunch in 10 Ford
are not going to die.
Yeah.
But but they're starting to get the upper hand after their fuck up
in the Jeffries tube.
And so they, you know, like they, they managed to get them out of
there.
And again, that's just sort of a sort of fairly standard siege
thing.
You know, like you get them out of there.
So they're not, you know, you reduce the number of hostages, all
of that sort of thing.
This is all the sort of thing that we've seen done heaps before.
Yeah, I don't know.
It gives Patrick the chancellor as well to kind of play along, you
know, do his play along acting.
Yeah, we're going to go with what you want.
And also I think there's just a sort of baseline of pleasure about
you know, the ship and the pyjamas and now regulars and all of
that sort of thing.
Like, you know, this is a police procedural.
Oh, you know what?
If somebody was having a terrible day and they chose to come home
wrap a blanket around them and watch PowerPlay, because they're a
TNG fan, as absolute popcorn come from viewing, I would absolutely
I would understand that.
You know, it's really solidly enjoyable.
Yeah.
Hey, what I just, maybe, maybe, our problem is then is we've just
come to expect more from television.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I think that's it.
Yeah.
And you say, you said like, you know, discovery like TNG, it took
a while to find its groove, but when it did find its groove, it
doesn't really dip in quality, does it?
It's consistently extremely well made and all of that.
But I mean, I think this is well made.
This is as well made as a very good Star Trek episode is.
It's just the script's not that interesting.
And the concept's not that interesting, but I think this is sort
of well done.
I mean, you know, what have we had?
We've had some stunt work.
We've had the fantastic fucking shuttle on...
Got a wonderful tracking shot here.
We've lots of blocking.
Everyone in shot as they walk along the corridor.
Oh, God. how young Patrick Stewart is. furtive in the background.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. doing his furtive acting.
How are you?
There's in there with the camera in there.
Squeeze up, wouldn't they?
The reason why Brent Spine is really going for it.
Don't get to remote very often, does he?
No, that's it.
Yeah.
It's like, right, I'm really, oh, there's those plastic containers
I took this out of in low decks.
That's right.
Why aren't they hexagonal?
What do you imagine they contain?
Is that like mostly supplies or something?
Wheels?
Extra...
That's right.
I think it's going to fall on the floor, something like that.
Yeah, probably.
I think you'd have to put that in a cupboard or something, though.
Here we go.
This is the great confrontation between Troy and Picard now.
Yeah, yeah.
And this is where he just sort of calls her on her bullshit, you
know, like, oh, Yeah, we're just the ghosts of Starfleet officers
and we need our bones being taken to earth.
You know, you are full of shit, yeah.
See, like when Battlestar Galactica did a hostage scenario story
yeah, on a prison ship, they murdered after prison, they massacred
loads of people.
And I think, like, if you're going to lean into these cliches like
this, like, you kind of need to, you even need to shock or you
need to surprise...
That's not something that's available.
They absolutely could.
They can't kill anyone.
Yes, I would.
Yeah, maybe.
But, like, I mean, that's just not available.
And this is, like I said before, it's family friendly science
fiction.
I think that Battlestar Galactica does a really, really good job
of having a massive, massive regular cast who you know well and
who you care about and, you know, it ramps up the stakes in all
sorts of ways.
And it is shot in a way that is a bit more visceral than this.
You know, this is very stagey.
I was trying to think of the hostage scenario episode that DS9
did.
I've just remembered what it is.
It's series 2's invasive procedures where there's a trill host, as
played by John Glover, fantastic performers.
They've evacuated the whole station, which is handy, because
otherwise there'll be a lot of people around.
And they get everybody in ops, don't they?
And they take the symbion out of backs, put it in John Glover.
So there's a real character angle to that one as well, isn't
there?
along with Tim Russ playing a Klingon and being super hot in that
as well.
So good.
I've been reading his tweets.
He's a cool guy.
Tim Ross?
Yeah, he's properly political and angry. fabulous.
He's got gray hair now and he looks amazing.
Do you know what?
I can't wait till that Voyager documentary comes out because I
think he's going to have a choice for things to say about Stanley
Beyond a security console.
Is he in the trailer for that?
Oh, sorry.
So this is the climax, right?
So, The, when now we've discovered this, that the prisoners are
all going to take over the bodies of the Enterprise crew and
they're going to take the ship and that's how they're going to
escape from their prison.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Can you hear this dialogue?
Yeah, yeah.
I would die for the sake of my child.
And then Wolf comes in the other side.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. to die as a Klingon.
Fuck off.
Yeah, yeah, but, but I know.
It's cheesy as hell.
But that's the point, though, isn't it, that these people have
some kind of principles that acknowledge something and are part of
something bigger and that's why they win.
And they don't even have to kill these guys.
All they need to do is convince them that they mean it. that, you
know, and that's what they do.
So they don't kill the guys.
All they do is convince them that they'll blow them.
They're not just convincing them.
They genuinely mean it.
Yeah, well, they know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's why they convince them.
That's why they convince them that they mean it.
Yeah.
Honestly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I want someone in Star Trek to be like, nah, I'm not sucking.
I'm not going to do that.
That's what lower decks is for.
But, you know, but, I mean, we're talking about, you know
protecting the baby, like, would miles and Keiko die if that, they
knew that Molly would be looked after by that nice white woman who
was sitting there next to, next to Rosslyn Chow in Ted Ford.
And of course they would, you know.
Excuse me.
Awesome, Keiko, send off that older Molly in times orphan to live
in the wilderness, you know.
Terrible.
It's really...
I forget that one.
I said I wanted a terrible DSI episode.
Let's make it that one.
Although it does have the scenes with warf and the baby rowl.
This is really funny as well.
You have no idea.
I would like to say, though, I was getting very excited then to
talk to you about the Star Trek Voyager documentary trailer over
the climax of this episode.
There might be a reason for that.
I would see it.
Yeah.
Oh my god, look at Molly.
So gorgeous.
I don't think that's Hannah Hattay, you know.
I think it probably isn't Hannah Hattay yet.
No.
That maybe doesn't look omation.
At all.
Oh, dear.
Do you know, Hannah hat is amazing.
Oh, no.
Just and stunning as well.
She's really cool.
He's in my room.
No, but you've seen her now.
Like, she's just a beautiful young woman.
She's fantastic.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's like Scarlet Pomers, who played Naomi Wildman.
Oh, really?
They've all blossomed into these beautiful women.
Yeah.
Astonishing.
And it's like, oh, you know, you said that, um, Worf gets hit by
one of those containers in ethics.
We don't believe what episodes just started on Netflix.
Oh, is ethics next, is it?
Now, look here now, but okay.
Okay, I feel as if I have been hugely critical of the next
generation throughout this commentary.
I'm not apologetic about it at all.
No, I think it's quite fair.
Like, you know, I enjoyed this watching it the other night, but
it's not a standout episode and it's not, you know, it's business
as usual.
And in fact, it's a little bit less ambitious than quite a lot of
them.
But it doesn't face plant spectacularly, and that is an option
available.
Well, an option that many...
Star Trek, the Next Generation episode, decide to track.
I think 90s straight, you know.
If you're competent, you're winning.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No one sort of embarrasses themselves or anything like that
there's a few sort of silly nonsense moments.
But there is something about the appeal of that.
And I think it is...
Like it's hang time with these people on this ship.
And I'm still excited by that back in sort of 1994 or whatever it
was when I 1st saw this.
Can you do me a favour then?
Because I feel like, you know, I have thrown the arrow right
through the heart of the next generation for the last hour.
Let's both do this.
Little game.
Name an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation that you think is
extremely good, but not an obvious one because I've got one
straight straight off the bat.
So I'm going to say family.
Season four, episode two.
And I think it is a well liked episode.
Don't get me wrong.
But it's very atypical for the next generation.
It's an episode like with consequences, with fantastic character
work and acting.
They go outside, so even you'll be happy.
Yeah, they do.
Like, like, that's the standard. that TNG can hit for me.
And interestingly, they had to fight for that episode.
Yeah, I did not want them to do it.
Yeah, because it's there's no not even a scene on the bridge.
I know you're going to throw something completely left field. and
don't you dare say masks.
I would nominate, and I don't know if this one's on anyone else's
kind of top 10 list, and it might not be on mine, but I think who
watches the watches is a particularly phenomenal.
Yeah.
And it's the cultural contamination thing that they're worried
about, but the cultural contamination that they're committing is
actually bringing religion to a sort of race of proto-Vulcans who
are just rational and don't believe in anything sort of
supernatural.
And the careful way that they have to handle that situation.
I think is really magnificent.
It's very, very good, I think.
To show how many times I've watched that episode.
I'm going to prove it to you now by quoting Picard to be ready.
And now you want me to sabotage that achievement and send them
back into the days of fear and oh no, I've forgotten the line.
But he just goes, no.
I will not do that.
Oh my god, it's a terrific episode.
No, it is really, really good.
And I mean, but there are definitely...
Season 3, I think.
And it's just when the show is like, wow. my god.
Where's this do this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
The fact is that even though the hit rate of Star Trek, the Next
Generation isn't particularly high, I think so many people had
affection for it that we got to spinoffs and then a 3rd spinoff
sometime after that.
And you know what, right?
I, you know, as much as I can say, perhaps this isn't the TV for
me now, it certainly was the TV for me then because I was obsessed
with this show back in the day.
And, you know, and it led me to DS9, which is one of my, you know
top 2 favourite shows.
But there is a reason why next year for season 3 of Picard, they
are bringing together this entire bloody 20 years after this show
went off the air, and that is because there is a love for this
show that pretty much, you know, I don't think any other Star Trek
show has.
I don't want to depress you, but it's nearly 30 years.
Thank you very much.
I feel extremely old now.
All right, so it's time to choose our next episode, and it's your
turn, Joe, so I'm assuming you're on untitled Star Trek project
com slash randomiser.
I am, and I am pleased to report that I know for a fact that
people are using the randomiser.
So yay, you people.
Yeah.
So, what series are we choosing from?
Well, after a glut of 90s trek episodes, I think we need to
abandon that for a little while and talk about something else.
All right.
Now, I think this tips us in the favour of Kersman Trek now
doesn't it?
Probably.
Yeah, no, probably.
I don't think we've done enough curse many of my minds.
I don't think we've explored the highs and lows of Kurtzman Trek
enough yet.
So, we could get an animated series, one.
And as the case, we will absolutely do it.
All right, okay.
Are you ready to press a button?
Oh my god.
It is an animated series episode.
Oh, okay, show me, show me, show me, show me.
It's one you've talked about before.
BEM.
Oh my god.
Okay.
So when we did I excretis.
You remember that there is that alien who comes on board to
evaluate the crew and she has a detachable head?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, she was from an alien race.
Yeah, from the same species.
You say it, yeah.
So this introduces them.
Unfortunately, I've done what I always do once you're talking
about it. is I pressed it again.
Yeah, okay.
Oh. think this is considered a bit of a classic.
Oh, okay.
I can't remember ever watching it though.
It is original series.
Season two, episode six, the Doomsday Machine.
Oh, I love the doomsday machine.
And Shatner is so fantastic in it.
It's really, really good.
Is it?
That spaceship that looks a bit phallic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The whole one, the lights coming out of it.
Yeah, it's like one of the big sandworms from June or something
really loud music, like, da, da, da, da.
Actually, it's, it's a very kind of, I think it's sort of front of
mind of the people who are doing 90s trek because it is sort of
fairly modern in the, in its sort of sensibility.
I think it's really good.
Didn't I hear that some people had a theory that the latest season
of discovery was featuring the doomsday machine.
Yeah, it wasn't.
Oh, but was it...
Were it hoilers?
Well, there was a big scary thing, but it was several light years
across and it wasn't that?
Several light years across.
That sounds amazing.
Pretty good.
Look forward to getting to that.
But I think we should do the doom same machine.
Yep, all right, I'm on.
Let's do it.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where
you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 10th of April 2022 and released
on the 22nd of April.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, The
Doomsday Machine.