WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:59:39

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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Today, it's really Star Trek at its kind of most Star Trek.

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What is it that we're watching?

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We are watching the season 5 episode Power Play.

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And you know what?

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I've got a startling revelation for you before we even begin.

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You were super enthusiastic about the prospect at the end of last

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episode, I think.

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I think this is one of those episodes, the more you watch it, the

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shiter it gets, you know.

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Honest to God.

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But no, that's not my revelation.

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My revelation is, we've done, how many, what next generation

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episodes have we done now?

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We did yesterday's Enterprise.

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Yeah.

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Descend one and two, all good things, all good things, subrosa.

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Sub-Rosa. there another one?

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I don't know.

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I think that's all.

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So unmemorable.

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We forgotten about it.

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So we've done we've done like kind of across tea in Germany.

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Three, five, seven.

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Even I'm not entirely sure that Star Trek the Next Generation is

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any good, you know.

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I'm starting to come to this conclusion Because we have, we have, I

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know we've only done 5 or 6 episodes.

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Yeah.

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But this has not been the best of what we've watched.

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Aside from yesterday's Enterprise, which was startlingly good.

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And I don't get me wrong.

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I do think the next generation can hit some incredible highs and I

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think it does.

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But I'm starting to come to the opinion that perhaps maybe half of

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its input, and I said this last week, and I'm more convinced of it

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than ever after watching this, because I really used to rate this

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episode, and I was very bored come the end of it, that maybe half

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the run of TNG isn't very good.

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And I think it's trading on its reputation and its popularity at

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the time.

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So I think, you know, let's let's do the maths.

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You've got series one and series two.

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Uh, each of those series has maybe massive problems.

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Well, they both have massive problems.

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Maybe they have a decent episode or 2 in them, series one.

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Maybe they're screaming endorsement, is it?

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Series 2 has maybe a higher strike rate, but you know, I can think

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of 2 or 3 that are really great.

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So it's maybe...

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Not good.

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And then and then it sort of comes along.

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And I think from 3 to 5 or 3 to six.

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I think it has a fairly solid hit rate, and then 7, as we've said

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before, is them kind of running out of steam a little bit and

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perhaps being a little bit too distracted by multitasking or

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something.

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But I think you're right there when you say the words fairly

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solid.

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Because I think even within those mid-seasons.

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And I do think there are terrific episodes.

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Yesterday, Enterprise is one, ninth degree, that one with Barclay

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all the lightning coming out of his head, family, best of both

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worlds.

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You know, this show can absolutely deliver.

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But within that, I think there probably is a good handful of fair

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so middling stuff as well.

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Yeah, but I think that the fair to middling stuff is sort of

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fairly competently executed.

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The disadvantage that Star Trek the Next Generation has over

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Voyager and Deep Space 9 is that it's being created in a world

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that hasn't had Star Trek for a while.

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And it's the same problem that Discovery has.

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You can visibly see discovery working out what the hell it wants

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to be.

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And it also takes a couple of times.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Well, that's also, hang on, hang on, though.

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That's also the most exciting thing about it as well, because when

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TNG gets its act together, it's, you, you know, you get very

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excited for the show.

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You love him watching it.

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And the same with Discovery as well.

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Well, that's right.

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And so when Voyager does sort of a time anomaly or a space loop or

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you know, the ship gets fragmented into lots of different time

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zones and stuff, the problem is that you're thinking that...

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Well, this is a bit like, you know, timescapes or something or or

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cause and effects only not as good.

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Whereas Star Trek the Next Generation is breaking that ground, it's

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the 1st Star Trek to have, you know, like big galactic things

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happening with the, with the Klingons, for instance.

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It has the Borg introduced.

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When cause and effect was 1st screened or when yesterday's

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enterprise or even something sort of fairly mundane, like clues

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they were something that original Star Trek hadn't done, and this

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was doing sort of competent family friendly TV science fiction

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just really very well, I think.

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And so I'm not as down on this week as you are because I think

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this is just a standard hostage procedural, like you might get on

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a cop show.

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And I think it does make a good decision about what it is that

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lets our characters win.

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Like I think it does a good job of saying something in the

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conclusion sort of thing.

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Otherwise, I think, you know, it's competent people solving space

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problems, and that seems to me to be really central to Star Trek.

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And don't get wrong, some of those episodes are really, really

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enjoyable to watch, but there's 179 episodes here.

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There's only so many ways you can do the Great Detective in space

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isn't there?

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Like, yeah, with, you know, some mundane episodes thrown to the

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wayside.

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I think as well, I think I spend a lot of time comparing this to

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what comes after.

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And I don't think it mentioned, like, when I, like, when we

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watched Nepenthe, and I see how Troy and Riker were characterised

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and I feel to myself, well, they wasted Troy for 7 years because

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she could have been this good.

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They didn't give them relationship like this, and it could have

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been this good.

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You know, and I look at DS9 and and I see a show that learns and

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develops and frankly gets better year after year, whereas I see a

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show in Next Generation where they started rough, they found out

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what they were doing.

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They hit a sort of pan and then it just went off a cliff.

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And I don't understand that either.

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I'm not saying TNG is all terrible.

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I'm not.

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I'm just saying I think it is a competent science fiction show.

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I don't think it's the all conquering classic that Trek fans make

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it out to be.

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I think there is much better trek than what's here.

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Well, I think that I think that's true, but there is something

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about the purity of this that I like.

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And I, you know, when we were watching Discovery, when we watch

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Forget Me Not, the fact that there were interesting character

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relationships that it had something to say, that it had a thematic

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unity, that it was visually impressive.

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All of those things, I think, are massive pluses.

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And I think that they are the sort of things that make for good

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TV.

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And this episode doesn't really have that.

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Like no one's relationship is explored.

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Everyone is...

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There's no substance there's jobs.

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No, no, I don't think that's true.

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I don't think that's true.

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I think there is substance to it, but I do think that basically

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the pleasure of this kind of Star Trek isn't the same pleasure

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that you get from watching Deep Space 9 or, you know, later trek

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which are much more character focussed, which are telling stories

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about people or sitcom characters or doing interesting things with

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combinations of different people.

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This is watching clever people do their jobs well in a framework

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where the roles are known.

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Depending on how well it's written.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But I think this one does actually do that.

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I think they do do their jobs well.

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And I also think the other pleasure that's unique to this one is

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getting 3 very well.

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Well, 2 well-known regulars and one kind of reasonably familiar

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secondary character to play against type.

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And I think that works particularly well and particularly for

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Marina, actually.

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Like, I don't, I don't want to be like a massive Debbie Downer on

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Star Trek the Next Generation.

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Like, it's hugely popular.

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It's most people's favourite.

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And there's a reason for that, you know.

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It's just it's never going to be mine.

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And I think like the more we're going back and watching it.

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I'm just like, oh, it's okay.

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It's okay.

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It's okay television, but it's rarely exceptional television.

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And like you said, even that's not a problem because comfort TV

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there's absolutely... what's going on in the world right now.

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We need as much come for TV as we can possibly get.

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I'm just surprised.

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I'm surprised by my reaction to it.

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And I think sometimes when you go back and you watch things that

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you had such a strong reaction to as a child.

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You can surprise yourself, you know?

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Yeah.

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But as far as, like, you're right.

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There's very little characterisation, it does have a moral point

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but it's a bit underdeveloped and a little bit thin. you know, good

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people are good.

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But I think that there's kind of competently executed action

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people doing the roles that we know that they have.

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That's it.

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You know, I guess it's the reason that eventually discovery goes

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from being a few kind of side characters on this spaceship to just

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basically being about the main guys, you know, the crew and the

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people on the bridge and stuff.

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And I think because so much of Star Trek's DNA is these are the

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jobs these people have and we're going to watch them do those jobs

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in order to solve the problems.

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And even Deep Space 9 does that.

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Like a lot of the characters, there's Dr. Bashir and Constable Odo

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and so on.

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And so they are kind of known by their jobs, but I think that

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because Deep Space 9 is serialised and because it isn't afraid to

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shake up the formula, it's not being syndicated, it doesn't have

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to be watched out of order.

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I think in DS9, they'll do interesting things with those people in

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those roles.

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So Cisco is both a Starfleet commander and the emissary of the

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Prophets and is torn between the two.

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Kira's a terrorist or was a terrorist and now she's an

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administrator. and in the 1st 2 series she's torn between the

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two.

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Like they've they've almost like learned the lessons from TNG.

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We've got to make these characters a bit more interesting in order

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for this to run.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And I think, you know, part of the problem too is that Roddenbury

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had a huge hand in kind of deciding who the characters would be

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from the get go.

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And, you know, you look at like Riker and Deanna, who are just

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sort of Decker and I Leah from phase 2 or the motion picture.

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You know, he's clearly had this idea for how he's going to do it.

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And there are some good ideas there.

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Like, I think data is a good idea.

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I think Yar is a good idea.

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But there's not really very much to them.

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And I'm not sure how much better, for instance, Voyager does at

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making the characters interesting.

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I think what Voyager does is it's probably been able to attract

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some more kind of experienced TV actors or something, and it has

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some really, really great performers.

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But like we've complained before about Tom Paris, who is just

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expert on whatever the plot needs him to be this week.

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This week, he's really into comments.

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And it also is full of episodes that just warm over things that

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were discovered by Star Trek, the next generation.

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But they're kind of like their TNG episodes done again with, I

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feel like more money, or at least they've learned how to execute

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them a bit better.

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So they feel a bit more kind of, not dynamic.

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Well, yeah, dynamic.

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But as well, I think one of the problems of changing it.

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I promise we'll go into the episode in a minute.

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But I think this stuff is worth, like, we're going back and

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revisiting this stuff for a reason.

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It's worth commenting about this stuff Um, is that Gene Robin

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Berry basically took Rick Bermanon as a protégé and said, this is

249
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the Star Trek.

250
00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:23.220
This is how I want to make it, okay?

251
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.460
And I don't want any tension between any of the characters.

252
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:27.779
Yawn.

253
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.799
And, you know, and I want sleazy sex in there and I want, basically

254
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:32.820
you know, these are the rules.

255
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:38.399
And then Robin Murray, very sad, drops off his perch and Rick

256
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.960
Berlin's left in charge of the show.

257
00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:42.659
And Rick Berman is like, right, we're going to do this the way

258
00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:43.500
Gene wanted to do it.

259
00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:45.720
Like, we're going to withhold his legacy and we're going to write

260
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:46.320
to you.

261
00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:48.539
And then Michael Piller comes in in season three.

262
00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:51.120
And he's like, well, now this show's got to be about the

263
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:51.600
characters.

264
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.080
And he literally would always say to all of his writers, character

265
00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:55.620
first.

266
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.899
All right, we've got the plots.

267
00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.000
We've got these one line plots from all these writers that are

268
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.100
coming in pitching character first.

269
00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:03.600
Keep writing about the characters.

270
00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:06.179
And he was trying to drive that, but there was this struggle

271
00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:09.419
between Pillar and Berman and these 2 approaches.

272
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.779
And I think this is where you end up in some bland middle grounds

273
00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:14.639
you know, of like no one developing.

274
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.580
Yeah, although I think that...

275
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:25.139
Like, just for me, because this was my 1st Star Trek, and it was a

276
00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:29.519
particular age, you know, like I just finished high school or

277
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:38.879
whatever, and, you know, I sort this out, and I think that, you

278
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.539
know, the performers eventually kind of settle into doing things

279
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:43.919
that they're good at.

280
00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:50.039
And I do think that there is, there's the germ of that charm that

281
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.980
you detected in Nepenthe there from time to time.

282
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:58.019
Sure, the charisma and the chemistry between the cast is

283
00:14:58.019 --> 00:14:58.980
unforgettable.

284
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.360
It's probably the best.

285
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:02.460
Maybe DS9.

286
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:03.600
No, it's probably the best.

287
00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:06.539
Um, and I would never...

288
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:07.559
I wouldn't disagree with that.

289
00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:09.240
I don't know.

290
00:15:09.299 --> 00:15:12.720
I just see a series of potentially waste opportunity and that's a

291
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:12.960
shame.

292
00:15:13.019 --> 00:15:16.500
Yeah, I think, look, that's that might be fair, but I also think

293
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:21.899
that that the main aim here might be one that you're not so

294
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:25.440
sympathetic with, which is the rottenberry idea, that this is a

295
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:26.220
procedural.

296
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.779
It's not a serial. interestingly, I don't watch any other

297
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:31.740
procedural shows.

298
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.419
I don't watch any medical dramas.

299
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:36.240
I don't watch any daytime soaps or anything like that.

300
00:15:36.299 --> 00:15:38.279
So maybe this just isn't.

301
00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.759
Well, you know, I think a daytime soap has more in common with

302
00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.000
Deep Space 9 than it does with Star Trek than Ex Generation.

303
00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:48.600
And that's, you know, science fiction, fandom, and soap fandom are

304
00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:49.919
pretty similar in lots of ways.

305
00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:53.340
I think our baby got beamed into someone's womb, you know, in

306
00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:53.940
Dallas once.

307
00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:57.600
Very similar.

308
00:15:57.659 --> 00:15:58.259
Which you know what?

309
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.720
It's going to be get being, being downer on TNG.

310
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:01.799
Maybe we should watch the episode.

311
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:04.080
Yeah, we'll have fun, trust me.

312
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:06.299
All right, shall I count us in?

313
00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:07.559
Yeah, let's do it.

314
00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:08.639
Here goes.

315
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:14.940
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

316
00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:18.240
Everyone, get down on the floor.

317
00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:22.379
Look, we start with a star date and everything.

318
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.639
It's proper traditional trek.

319
00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:26.879
Half of those deep space 9 episodes. there. on Netflix.

320
00:16:27.059 --> 00:16:29.039
That looks very crisp, you know, those special effects.

321
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:33.779
I wouldn't be at all surprised because a lot of the original

322
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:34.980
planets.

323
00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:36.600
Well, no, this is series five.

324
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:37.379
I can't remember.

325
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:38.220
I can't remember.

326
00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:42.419
The subtitles said statically distress call.

327
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:43.919
That's all you said.

328
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.620
Oh my god, look at Riker's Pose with his knee.

329
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:50.159
Yeah.

330
00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.120
There's no one more masculine than Will Riker on time.

331
00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:55.919
No, he's there and his boys out there.

332
00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:59.159
I've been over Data's shoulder.

333
00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:03.480
Would you care to just compare the costumes of Picard and Riker

334
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:03.720
there?

335
00:17:03.779 --> 00:17:06.240
Because Picard seems fitted, but Riker seems very loose.

336
00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:10.019
Well, I think Riker has a tendency to run to fat.

337
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.819
And so maybe that's it.

338
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.039
He did put on, didn't he, over the years?

339
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:16.920
He did over the years, but I think he's looking pretty good. here

340
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:22.859
and and he's not doing the sort of combing his hair back thing

341
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:25.200
that he ends up going with Nathan.

342
00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:28.380
Can I just say, it's never a good sign when Diana Troy is walking

343
00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:30.960
around the back of the scene looking concerned because you know

344
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:35.460
she's about to come up and give some amazing betasoid wisdom, isn't

345
00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:35.640
she?

346
00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:37.079
Here we go.

347
00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:39.359
This is a great line though.

348
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:42.839
I'm not sure we have That's awesome, Bless.

349
00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:44.519
And they just turn to look at her.

350
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:49.980
See, she gets the she gets the line before we just go to the

351
00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:51.119
opening credits.

352
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.619
Look, you know what?

353
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:54.000
You and me, Dr. U fans.

354
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:56.220
We've seen some pretty fuzzy CSO shots not time.

355
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.920
They've really mastered that standing in front of their view.

356
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:00.480
It does look good, though, I think.

357
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:01.559
Yeah.

358
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:03.839
Well, we saw it happening for the 1st time, didn't we?

359
00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.599
Is it, which one is it?

360
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.039
Is it Kauva Mite maneuver?

361
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.799
Oh, when they stepped in front of the screen?

362
00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:12.299
No, it was Spot's brain.

363
00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:13.559
In my brain.

364
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:14.759
Jesus Christ, it was too.

365
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:17.819
They were trying to narrow down which flag.

366
00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:19.019
Yeah, yeah, that's it.

367
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.859
So can I just say, right, so you remember I said to you before how

368
00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:25.680
I was explaining the plots of these things to my brother?

369
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.000
was not a Star Trek fan, right?

370
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:30.359
And he just puts his head in his hands every single time going, oh

371
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:32.339
God, that just sounds like the stock Star Trek to me.

372
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.359
So I go and say, right.

373
00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:37.920
So this episode, yeah, it's all about 3 of the crew members get

374
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:42.240
possessed by aliens after a shuttlecraft crashes on the planet and

375
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.759
already his head's in his hands and I was like, I'm just going to

376
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:45.180
stop there.

377
00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:51.000
This is absolutely stockstanding Star Trek.

378
00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:55.619
This is, you know, as Star Trek as you could possibly get, you

379
00:18:55.619 --> 00:18:57.119
know, it's not an event episode.

380
00:18:57.180 --> 00:18:59.819
It's not anything sort of particularly special.

381
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:01.440
It is just a day at the office.

382
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:05.579
No, you may fight me on this, so I think this is executed with a

383
00:19:05.579 --> 00:19:06.779
fair bit of flair, you know?

384
00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:09.359
Oh, yeah, no, I think it's really, it's well done.

385
00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:13.440
This is David Livingston, who I mentioned before as the one

386
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.160
director on Voyager that decided to make it exciting and, you know

387
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.740
as close to a movie as he possibly can.

388
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.859
He often got the big blockbusters because he did deadlock.

389
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:24.539
Do you remember deadlock when the Vedians came on?

390
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.279
Yeah, yeah, that shit, really?

391
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:27.839
Good episodes. amazingly good.

392
00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:29.220
Or that one.

393
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.920
Do you remember the one where the shuttlecraft, the Kazon

394
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.960
Shuttlecraft, Pierce's Voyager?

395
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.700
into the cargo bay and they've literally got the whole, a massive

396
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:41.579
shuttle bay in the ceiling hanging out of the ceiling.

397
00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:42.359
It looks amazing.

398
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:45.299
How I play.

399
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.859
Wow, I wonder what this is about then.

400
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:47.460
Super boring.

401
00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:51.059
Here we go.

402
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.019
Sorry, the shuttle crowd.

403
00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:52.920
Look at the clouds.

404
00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:55.019
Look at this little shuttle pod. so cute.

405
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.000
Look at this.

406
00:19:57.059 --> 00:19:57.839
No, no.

407
00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:59.220
I think this is on a gimbal.

408
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.079
I think the reasons they're in this tony thing.

409
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:04.259
It's on a gimbal because Deanna's hair is like following the force

410
00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:05.339
of gravity, right?

411
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.700
And she's sitting up the back doing some very uncomfortable

412
00:20:08.700 --> 00:20:10.500
looking acting while they have to deliver life.

413
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:13.799
I mean, listen, got fucking dry ice outside the window.

414
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:15.900
It's so great.

415
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:18.960
It's the same bit of dry ice there.

416
00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:24.119
It strikes me as absolutely surprisingly dynamic for Star Trek the

417
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:24.720
next generation.

418
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.039
It's great.

419
00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:27.539
There's a physicality to it.

420
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:30.599
It's awesome You can imagine the actor's like, oh, God, we're

421
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:31.500
going to that simulator again.

422
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:32.579
Yeah.

423
00:20:32.579 --> 00:20:36.599
Great part of, though, has kept his composure look very well.

424
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:39.720
But look how unhappy Marina looks.

425
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:44.339
Nathan her hair looks fabulous, you know?

426
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.079
It always does, honestly.

427
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:50.519
I have to say, right, we're not there yet, but any chance this

428
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.140
show gets to make her evil.

429
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:52.980
It's just amazing.

430
00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:53.759
All right.

431
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:56.579
I think she's, look, and now we're rolling the camera.

432
00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.119
Fuck off.

433
00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:58.920
No, wait, wait, wait.

434
00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:01.740
It's kind of been a stop shot, but he's decided to do a crane shot

435
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:06.720
over a rock to show the shuttle pod crashed surrounded by

436
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:07.259
someone.

437
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.220
That is not bad.

438
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:09.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

439
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.700
So this is this is the planet hell set.

440
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.759
That's what they used to call it, and it had like sand and stuff

441
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:15.119
in it.

442
00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:18.059
Is it the same one that they shoved Jordan LaFour job without

443
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:18.599
Romulan?

444
00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:19.559
Yeah, yeah.

445
00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:20.880
So that's the enemy, I think.

446
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.039
That's a good episode, though.

447
00:21:23.099 --> 00:21:24.119
It's a good episode.

448
00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:25.740
And they like that set really well.

449
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.279
I mean, you know, it's never going to be anything other than a set

450
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.460
but I think it makes all the difference, you know, when they turn

451
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:35.039
the lights down and they don't have a different coloured sky

452
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:35.819
backdrop.

453
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:38.700
It just looks far more convincing, you know, less more like a

454
00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:38.940
studio.

455
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.920
Yeah.

456
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:45.779
Well, I believe I see stock cave set number 52 behind them there.

457
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:47.819
There's only stock cave set number one.

458
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:49.799
We've never stopped their numbers.

459
00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:51.059
I'll never stop doing it.

460
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:57.119
But I could bloody have the dry ice machines going on over time.

461
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:57.839
Yeah, isn't it?

462
00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:00.660
Yeah Well, it's covering the set, which helps. covered the floor.

463
00:22:00.779 --> 00:22:03.180
But in season one, they didn't even bother doing that.

464
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.579
You just had, you know, the sand all the time.

465
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.619
But I mean, Marina complains about like sand because she's wearing

466
00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:13.079
terrible betazoid contact lenses and stuff.

467
00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:16.019
And so all of the sand in the set and stuff was particularly

468
00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:16.740
uncomfortable.

469
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.519
And then there's a stunt that she's about to do where I think she

470
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.319
breaks her coccyx, doesn't she?

471
00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.660
Yeah, she flies back and then she complains in an interview

472
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:25.140
later.

473
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.900
She goes, it could have been Michael Dawn or Wolf or anyone.

474
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.740
Yeah, they could be Michael in my uniform and you would never have

475
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:32.039
known.

476
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:35.880
When they get shocked, They literally all jump back in unison.

477
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:36.599
It looks amazing.

478
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:37.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.720
I think they're on like elastic or something.

480
00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:41.579
I got a question for you.

481
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.740
Why is it some row in this episode?

482
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:45.299
Because it feels like a waste of her character.

483
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:51.480
Oh, so she's she's like, so Wesley leaves midway through series 4

484
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.200
and then they have Ensign Gates and various other people who are

485
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.299
you know, Ensign McKnight.

486
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:02.160
There are just a few a few kind of rotating female officers on the

487
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.299
panels in the bridge.

488
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:04.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

489
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:06.059
And occasionally they get a line and stuff.

490
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:09.420
And so clearly they decide that they're going to introduce another

491
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:12.599
character so that they can have conflict among the regulars.

492
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:14.880
I think that was pillar again, though.

493
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:17.579
Did deliberately bring a conflict to the ship, you know?

494
00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:18.299
Yeah.

495
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.619
And so they bring her on and she gets her own episode like early

496
00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:23.339
in the season.

497
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:26.519
And then there are plenty of episodes here where she's just the

498
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.220
you know, explores what she think.

499
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:33.180
I think if you look across the run, I think she's only in about 11

500
00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:34.319
episodes or something like that.

501
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:35.279
Okay, yeah, not a minute.

502
00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:38.160
And you know, one of them is the one where she gets turned into

503
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:38.460
the kid.

504
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:40.500
That's so funny.

505
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.440
She's a wonderful scene with Guiden, where Guiden says six.

506
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:44.880
Use crayons.

507
00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:46.559
They can take you to more places than the starship.

508
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.019
I love that episode.

509
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.799
But like, the thing is, is Michelle Forbes is in high demand at

510
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.319
this point, you know, and they were like, they were begging her to

511
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.359
come and do Battlestar Galactica and things like that because

512
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:00.059
she'd gone on to do like good work.

513
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:05.160
To see her being used, just, you know, person at the console or

514
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.160
person who gets them in the ring later on.

515
00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:12.180
It's, it feels like a bit of waste of a good actress, is all.

516
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:15.660
Here we go.

517
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.680
So why are they setting these things up?

518
00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:18.539
So these are pattern enhances.

519
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.779
And I was thinking about them because they only ever appear in

520
00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:23.039
Star Trek the next generation.

521
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.420
I't think they appear afterwards.

522
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.200
So I'm guessing they're like physical keyboards on mobile phones

523
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:33.119
that just for like maybe 20 years we need these pattern enhancers

524
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.779
because they use them again in ship in a bottle and a couple of

525
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:37.380
other places.

526
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:39.960
It's a really good episode, you know?

527
00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:40.799
Yeah, yeah.

528
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:41.220
Yeah.

529
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.220
And you sort of set them up so that you can beam.

530
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:47.099
It gives O'Brien a reason to come down.

531
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:48.900
I think.

532
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:49.740
Yeah, it does.

533
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:50.279
Yeah.

534
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:50.579
Yeah.

535
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.039
Did you notice the special effect then of the weird sea of ghosts

536
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:56.640
coming down?

537
00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:59.339
And then those cute little lights going into them.

538
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.039
Oh, I love this bit.

539
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:05.759
Zoom in old Marina's eye, eh?

540
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:06.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

541
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:08.880
I'm sorry.

542
00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:09.359
Okay.

543
00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:10.740
I said this to you the other week.

544
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.339
We've been through this possession, Malarkey, enough times now

545
00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:17.759
that you know, when someone wakes up screaming the red, I'm like

546
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:18.420
well, she's possessed.

547
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:19.740
Get her to a cell.

548
00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:25.019
Well, she had a little bit of light going, you know, in series two

549
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:25.500
episode one.

550
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:29.819
So either she's possessed or pregnant, I think, is what's

551
00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:31.980
happening here. was fantastic about these scenes.

552
00:25:31.980 --> 00:25:35.160
Because I said to you, I really love the 1st 15 minutes of this, is

553
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:40.019
there's a subtlety to their performances in these, in these early

554
00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:42.960
scenes, which I think is a bit abandoned when they're revealed to

555
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.920
be villains, like.

556
00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:48.119
But even the way they, in a minute, they walk to a turbo lift with

557
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.059
Picard and Riker, and they're even walking a little bit

558
00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:52.440
differently to the way they look.

559
00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:55.920
And I'm just like there's something just a little bit off about

560
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:56.400
all of this.

561
00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:57.420
Yeah, yeah.

562
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:02.339
There's a shot of them, like all 5 of the characters in the turbo

563
00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:02.940
lift.

564
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.779
And maybe it's not particularly subtle, but they're all kind of

565
00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:10.380
you know, you've got Riker and and the captain in the foreground

566
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.680
and then the 3 possessed people in the background and they're all

567
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:17.400
looking like super shifty and stuff, which is pretty great.

568
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.980
Could I ask you a question about the turbo lists?

569
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:20.579
Yeah.

570
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:24.119
I mean, how do they, they don't just go up and down like a lift, do

571
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:24.359
they?

572
00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:24.960
No.

573
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.019
They go up and down and across sign. yeah.

574
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:32.099
But they go diagonally too. any direction. don't know.

575
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.799
There's always shafts, isn't there, in Star Trek?

576
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:35.579
It's really weird.

577
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.599
We see the inside of the shaft in Star Trek the Next Generation a

578
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:40.740
bunch of times, don't we?

579
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.920
Well, we see it in your favourite disaster when Picardo's

580
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.720
irritating children up.

581
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:46.380
That's awesome.

582
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:50.579
But then in Star Trek Discovery, they've just decided that it's a

583
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:54.420
big weird eccentric space that's in the middle of the ship that

584
00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:57.539
can't possibly fit there, but we don't care because it gives us

585
00:26:57.539 --> 00:26:58.799
good visuals, I think.

586
00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:02.880
There's nothing wrong with me at all, but I really think we should

587
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.400
take this podcast to the southern polar region.

588
00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:06.000
Okay?

589
00:27:06.059 --> 00:27:07.500
All right.

590
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:10.319
What's with this southern polar region all of a sudden?

591
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:12.240
Everyone's obsessed with it.

592
00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:13.079
Yeah, yeah.

593
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.980
Yeah, see, this isn't bad, is it?

594
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:21.359
That's data delivering his understood, sirline normally, but with

595
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.819
a like really sort of concerned look on his face.

596
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:26.339
I think there's something really good about this, right?

597
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:28.559
Because the way.

598
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.420
So Deanna's the leader, isn't she?

599
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:43.140
And she is like cold and absolutely no nonsense and quite strong.

600
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:47.700
She walks in in a minute and she's half of 10 forward.

601
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.619
Well, I thought she's really great.

602
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:50.519
She's so good.

603
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:52.859
And then you've got, like, I guess...

604
00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:55.259
Data's a bully.

605
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.240
Like a bit of a...

606
00:27:57.299 --> 00:27:59.220
Because he's using his fist a lot, isn't he?

607
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.700
He's like smashes the corridor, doesn't it?

608
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:03.599
The glass in the corridor.

609
00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:05.460
Oh, he just punch Riker in the chest.

610
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:06.900
Oh my god.

611
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:07.200
Okay.

612
00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:10.500
We can't hear the music, but I really like the music in this scene

613
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:12.660
da da da da da.

614
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.720
Did you see who it was?

615
00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:16.680
Oh, we just shot row.

616
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:20.579
Um, They still haven't quite got.

617
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.799
It's like one person shoots, one person shoots.

618
00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:25.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

619
00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:25.619
Yeah.

620
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:26.940
But you know what?

621
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:28.200
It's interesting.

622
00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:32.940
You make Troy, because it's a male ghost in Troy, isn't it?

623
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.460
And so she's suddenly quite masculine.

624
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:40.740
And you make Data a bully, and that's scary because he's got like

625
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:41.519
super strength.

626
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:45.960
And you make Cole meanie, a weird pervert.

627
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.519
And that's just creepy.

628
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:49.380
Because he plays that to the hill.

629
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.740
Yeah, it's really funny because I was trying to sort of devise a

630
00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:54.839
theory where they were just sort of being made to play their

631
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:55.740
opposites.

632
00:28:55.799 --> 00:29:00.180
And then I realised basically at this point in the show, what?

633
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.720
He's had data's day and the wounded.

634
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:05.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

635
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.859
But he, you know, like, wouldn't say large.

636
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.759
Yeah, he's basically, he's usually standing at that transport.

637
00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:13.200
I mean, he's a solid guy.

638
00:29:13.259 --> 00:29:18.539
He's a non-cannibalistic pervert or whatever the hell he is.

639
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:22.140
I'm going to say again, Nathan.

640
00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:22.799
Non-pervert.

641
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:25.259
He jumps over to DS9 and suddenly they start doing interesting

642
00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:25.920
things with him.

643
00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:27.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

644
00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:28.559
Look at these guys' pants.

645
00:29:28.619 --> 00:29:30.660
Did you see the guy in the background?

646
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:31.619
Jesus Christ.

647
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.299
Is that one of the regulars?

648
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:35.400
Is that Patricia Tallman from Babylon 5?

649
00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:38.039
Because it looks just like a...

650
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:40.619
She's great falling down acting in a minute.

651
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:41.700
Security lady.

652
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:43.140
She's...

653
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.660
But then can I, can I, you have to indulge me in doing this, but

654
00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:51.180
the music, when they ran around that corridor, it's like, da, da

655
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:56.220
da, da, da, da, da, I like the orchestra.

656
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:57.720
I don't care what you say, all right?

657
00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:00.000
I think it's great when they go a little bit more exciting.

658
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

659
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:07.500
It's better than insert ad break here, which is the usual...

660
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.000
Whilst I was praising this on a group on a chat we had was, yeah, I

661
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:12.839
can't even notice it.

662
00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:13.200
Sorry.

663
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:17.519
I noticed nothing at all. just rude.

664
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.140
J.

665
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:22.079
Chatterway sweated his bollocks off for 7 seasons, all right?

666
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:27.299
I do remember Jay Chataway and thinking, yeah, he's all right.

667
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.000
He did do some good scores I think.

668
00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:33.960
This is a bit like they, the baby's there, isn't it, to make this

669
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:34.559
more tense.

670
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:35.880
Yeah, yeah.

671
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.819
Because they focussed straight on the baby when they went to tend

672
00:30:38.819 --> 00:30:39.539
forward, you know.

673
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.400
So it's like the baby's in danger with them coming.

674
00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:42.000
Yeah.

675
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:42.599
Yeah.

676
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:49.680
And that's, you know, that's, it is a little bit of a kind of gun

677
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.680
hostage siege cliche, isn't it?

678
00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:53.519
don't you think?

679
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:58.740
Like, it's like, I can imagine a police procedural doing this and

680
00:30:58.740 --> 00:30:59.819
having a, yeah.

681
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:01.500
I'm sorry to interrupt.

682
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.599
Look, watch how she falls down.

683
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.019
She's going for it, isn't she?

684
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:07.740
Good honour.

685
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:08.759
And look at this.

686
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.640
Troy, she is, she's just...

687
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:12.180
Yeah.

688
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.140
So good.

689
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.599
That guy was going for a leap.

690
00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:18.539
Give her a gun and let her shoot everybody, you know?

691
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:20.460
And look at Marina's face.

692
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:21.480
She is loving it.

693
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.460
Marina is loving this.

694
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.900
Yeah.

695
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.619
Yeah, well, she has to play such a good girl all the time and

696
00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:29.700
she's not a good girl.

697
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:31.920
She's opening script up and gone, bloody hell.

698
00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:33.180
They finally give me something to do.

699
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.259
It's amazing.

700
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.200
And you know what, though, right?

701
00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:37.440
Okay.

702
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:43.319
It is a truth that when people are called upon to behave possessed

703
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:46.799
they tend to lose their ability to act in any way, shape, or

704
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:47.039
form.

705
00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:49.200
And I think there is a little bit of that going on.

706
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:54.359
Oh, but I, like what sort of, what sort of acting you out?

707
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.420
Subtle nuanced sort of acting.

708
00:31:57.480 --> 00:31:58.740
Yeah, you're not gonna get that.

709
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.920
She's like, yes, Bridge.

710
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:03.960
We can hear you.

711
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:04.559
Awesome.

712
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:05.160
I love that.

713
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:08.759
But she's kind of, you know, drawing on her childhood memories of

714
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:13.559
watching Blake 7 and deciding, I'm a fabulously made up villain

715
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:14.160
with a gun.

716
00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:15.720
This is our door.

717
00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:19.440
It must be the most boring job in the Enterprise, standing at that

718
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.500
transporter pad, waiting for someone to ring you and say, right, we

719
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:23.279
need you to do something.

720
00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:27.240
Someone needs to do a lower decks episode.

721
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:29.940
When O'Brien says that in a DS9 episode.

722
00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:32.579
He goes, do you remember I can't tell you how bored I used to be

723
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:33.359
on the Enterprise?

724
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:35.880
Just stand there, wait for someone to beam down onto the planet.

725
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.700
There's a lot of red going on in the bridge right now, isn't

726
00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:41.880
there?

727
00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:43.319
Yeah, they're always these.

728
00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:47.099
That's why I think they decide to do those deep Space 9 uniforms

729
00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:47.880
in black.

730
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.099
It's a little bit too much red.

731
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.279
I mean, I'm pleased they're doing the hostage scenario in 10

732
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.039
forward because I think it's the most interesting say on the ship

733
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:56.279
actually.

734
00:32:56.339 --> 00:32:57.299
Oh, yeah.

735
00:32:57.299 --> 00:32:59.099
It's really interesting.

736
00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:00.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

737
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:00.720
Yeah.

738
00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:02.339
Yeah, it's a great show.

739
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:04.500
Surely this would be one episode where you'd have going in there.

740
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.980
Yeah, I don't know.

741
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:12.539
I mean, I think you do save Guyan for special occasions and this

742
00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:15.119
is absolutely not a special occasion.

743
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.720
Isn't there one episode, though, where I'll go and get some

744
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:20.220
massive gun out from under the bar?

745
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.380
It would be great, but the climax and then she goes, oh, I've had

746
00:33:25.380 --> 00:33:25.799
enough of this.

747
00:33:25.859 --> 00:33:27.059
Just shot off.

748
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:35.039
But so I really, really like, and we kind of, because we're

749
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.200
talking, we're not sort of paying super close attention to the

750
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:42.180
fact that they're all competent, and that's, that's the pleasure

751
00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:46.319
in this, is that they're all very good at their jobs.

752
00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:52.980
They all come up with good ideas and they with one really notable

753
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:57.660
moment of fantastic, inadvertent incompetence here.

754
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.420
And it just doesn't work for them.

755
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:05.039
And I think that's like there's a pleasure in that.

756
00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:06.839
It's like a heist or something.

757
00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:08.280
You know, here's our plan.

758
00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:09.420
We're going to do the thing.

759
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:11.460
Something goes wrong.

760
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.260
It doesn't quite work out.

761
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.239
I mean, there's a pleasure in that, I think.

762
00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:16.139
Actually, do you know what?

763
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:18.840
Like the last 3 we've done. descent, wasn't it?

764
00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:22.500
And that was supposed to be a riff on cultism, wasn't it?

765
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.659
And then we did Subroso, which was like a Gothic fantasy and led

766
00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:28.739
into those cliches.

767
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.599
Now we're doing...

768
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:34.079
Yeah, police official scenario and leaning into those cliches.

769
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:38.099
So maybe this is a more adaptable formula, plot wise. than perhaps

770
00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:39.119
I was suggesting earlier.

771
00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:42.360
Yeah, but it and it's fun just seeing.

772
00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:45.480
Oh, well, I mean, the trouble is...

773
00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:48.360
Do you not reckon that Admiral Nachev is getting all of these

774
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:52.260
reports from Picard and going, well, look, the Enterprise has been

775
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:52.980
taken over again.

776
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:54.480
You people are alive.

777
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:56.280
It happens all the time. happens all the time.

778
00:34:56.340 --> 00:35:01.320
Every ship. you know, but they didn't really notice that 3 of them

779
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.739
were evil and until they shot down half of 10 forwards.

780
00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:07.139
They were behaving very well.

781
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.239
I mean, the last time Troy was evil, or was it in the future?

782
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:16.199
Oh no, it's in season six.

783
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:18.960
That's the best evil episode of all time.

784
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:21.780
Has she actually been evil before?

785
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.699
No, although I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't want it to be an

786
00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:28.079
occupational hazard of being evil.

787
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:29.340
Yeah.

788
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.320
Which is enough in 7 seasons.

789
00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:33.119
She's great at this, though.

790
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:34.380
I think she's really good.

791
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.019
I really enjoyed her performance in this.

792
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.079
Well, it just made me wish for her to be more of a badass

793
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:40.619
normally.

794
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:42.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

795
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.980
No, we don't want her saying, hi, Bev, any erotic dreams lately?

796
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:48.059
It's dead.

797
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:49.679
We want to walk around with a gun, you know?

798
00:35:49.739 --> 00:35:52.199
Like, yeah, like Kira and dad, you know?

799
00:35:52.260 --> 00:35:52.920
Yeah.

800
00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:53.579
Yeah.

801
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:01.559
I did find the performances of Brent Spiner and Columini a little

802
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:02.519
bit unnerving.

803
00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:08.940
They are leaning into unpleasant masculine traits that are a bit.

804
00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:12.900
But, you know, intentionally, I think, because that's how you

805
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:17.699
characterise criminals, you know, the, like he's a bully.

806
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.199
Spiner's character, like the whoever's possessing him is a small

807
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.960
man, you know, like he's threatening war.

808
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:28.500
You know, he's found himself in Data's body and now he wants to

809
00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:31.019
beat up Worf because Worf's the toughest guy in the room.

810
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:35.280
And so, you know, that's a fairly standard cliche kind of

811
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:36.539
character.

812
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.860
And the trouble is that we have seen Brent be evil stacks of times

813
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:41.579
at this point.

814
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:44.219
And it's always roughly the same.

815
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.860
We're going to see him be evil quite a few times.

816
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:48.119
Yeah, before the show's out.

817
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:49.380
Yeah, yeah.

818
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.320
Marine Church probably was sitting there looking at those scripts

819
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:53.820
going, well, why does he get to have all the fun?

820
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:56.099
Yeah, and I think it was really good in it.

821
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:57.599
I reckon she's got the best part.

822
00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:01.559
What's wonderful about this whole scenario now is that they

823
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:03.960
obviously need to try and find a way to get the ghosts out of our

824
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:04.800
three, yeah?

825
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:07.980
And so if this was a lower decks episode, they would cover all

826
00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:09.780
these cliches in about 2.5 minutes.

827
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:13.500
We've got to spend the next half an hour doing front paces of

828
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:16.320
trying to get them in a little circle and all the other ways, you

829
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:16.500
know.

830
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.199
But again, you know, it is...

831
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:25.860
The twist here is that they don't actually end up solving the

832
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:27.179
problem through their cleverness.

833
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:31.920
There's another thing that they do that enables them to solve the

834
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:32.460
problem.

835
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:36.239
And it's at the heart of what makes them different from the 3

836
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.780
criminals who've taken over the bridge.

837
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:43.260
And, you know, one of the things, one of the problems with the

838
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:47.760
police procedural is, of course, that the police are good guys and

839
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:53.820
the, uh, and the cops are bad guys and that's absolutely an

840
00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:55.980
oversimplification about what's going on.

841
00:37:56.039 --> 00:38:03.119
And there's never any explanation for, you know, why the criminals

842
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:03.659
are bad.

843
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:06.360
The criminals are bad just because they're kind of morally

844
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:07.139
terrible people.

845
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.900
And so this does go in that direction.

846
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:11.880
Like this basically does do that.

847
00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.599
I think.

848
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:16.679
Isn't there this massive feint that they're like an old starship

849
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:19.019
that crashed years ago.

850
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.139
So they're posing as Starfleet officers and when they're nothing

851
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:23.099
of the kind, are they?

852
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:24.059
No, no.

853
00:38:24.059 --> 00:38:25.679
And I think we fall for it.

854
00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:26.760
Do you think we fall for it?

855
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:30.960
For a bit, and I think you need the twist at that point because at

856
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.420
that point, the hostage scenarios got to a point where you're like

857
00:38:33.420 --> 00:38:35.340
okay, well, we're going for the motions of all of this.

858
00:38:35.340 --> 00:38:37.739
And then she's like, oh, no, we're a bunch of Starfleet officers

859
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:41.219
and we just want to, you know, be reunited with our crew.

860
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:43.320
And that's potentially quite interesting.

861
00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:44.400
Yeah.

862
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:47.639
But, you know, like obviously their behaviour means that they're

863
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:51.059
not Starfleet officers and they have to kind of try and square

864
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:51.420
that.

865
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:53.519
But they've kind of willing to believe them for a bit.

866
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:55.980
But I think, does Picard ever believe them?

867
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:56.880
I can't remember.

868
00:38:57.539 --> 00:38:58.980
Not sure.

869
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.679
Is she unconscious or is she just having a nap?

870
00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:04.619
She's just overwhelmed by everything and thought she'd take a

871
00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:07.739
little mid hostage situation nap.

872
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:13.980
This is so creepy in a minute where O'Brien goes up to Keiko and

873
00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:14.340
the baby.

874
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:18.360
And he doesn't like make advances, does he?

875
00:39:18.420 --> 00:39:20.219
But he gets a little close.

876
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.500
There's one really creepy line, I think.

877
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:29.400
So that she's complaining that the baby is scared because of, I

878
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.800
don't know, like the baby's crying because she's scared.

879
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:35.219
I think she's a fucking, she doesn't know what's going on.

880
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.940
She can't focus on anything like more than 2 feet away at this

881
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:39.239
point.

882
00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:41.219
She's probably just got gas or something.

883
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.119
Did you see how they underlit Colomini there to make him look like

884
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:45.539
a ghoul?

885
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:46.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

886
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.340
He's lit from below.

887
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:52.320
Can you please drop your startling revelation about Rosalind Cheo

888
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.480
and Columini, please, what you said to me in the chat?

889
00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:58.980
Oh, well, I thought she was better than him in this.

890
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.079
And maybe. is a fact, you know.

891
00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:04.739
Very often in niche shows. the the secondary characters are the

892
00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:05.159
best actors.

893
00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:09.179
She's very good and obviously she sort of always continued to get

894
00:40:09.179 --> 00:40:12.539
work and stuff, but I thought, you know, she was particularly good

895
00:40:12.539 --> 00:40:12.960
in this.

896
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.920
And I guess the last time we were here in a sort of similar

897
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:20.280
situation was disaster earlier in the season, wasn't it, when

898
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:20.880
Molly was born?

899
00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:25.320
You think Warf would be avoiding Keiko in 10-4, wouldn't you?

900
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:26.099
That's right.

901
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:29.639
But we do need Keiko there because otherwise, who the hell did we

902
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:30.539
care about this bunch?

903
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:31.380
Yeah that's right.

904
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:35.280
And she's the only regular character who's a civilian.

905
00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:38.699
Isn't she the only semi-regular character who's just, she's just a

906
00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:41.159
botanist or something, or is she a Starfleet botanist?

907
00:40:41.219 --> 00:40:44.039
I don't know. but she's not a soldier or anything.

908
00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:48.300
She spent a lot of time making that very dull arboretum place

909
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:50.579
though. very boring, wasn't it?

910
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.179
That's sad.

911
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.199
Bad, sad.

912
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.900
Go on, say it again.

913
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:56.159
They could have just gone outside.

914
00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:56.820
I know.

915
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:58.380
Yeah, that's right.

916
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:00.239
Do you know whether a trees?

917
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:01.139
Shot it in a park.

918
00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:04.139
Do you know where there are trees?

919
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:11.099
Do you know where there's a place where there's not churches made

920
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:12.000
out of plywood?

921
00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:13.800
Outside.

922
00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:17.699
Okay, here we go.

923
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:18.360
Right.

924
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:20.760
Negotiation time now.

925
00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:21.900
Yeah, but look, look, look.

926
00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:25.139
Look, Brent's doing his sort of scowly cab face.

927
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:25.920
Look at that.

928
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:27.300
Whereas Deanna.

929
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.539
Whereas where it is at least just to the playing...

930
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:32.280
Yeah, I really like it.

931
00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:35.760
Yeah, but you know, any chance Brent Sparner's got to be a bit

932
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:36.239
gump.

933
00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:37.739
He goes for it, doesn't he, you know?

934
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:42.360
The sons of Soona together again, you know, like...

935
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:43.860
Well, that's fine.

936
00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.179
I mean, need I mention masks?

937
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:46.679
Mosaka.

938
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:48.719
I love masks.

939
00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:50.219
And I love Masaka as well.

940
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:51.179
It's one of my favourite things.

941
00:41:54.900 --> 00:41:59.460
This is the blocking that I love so much where she just goes up to

942
00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:02.340
the camera to stand in front of the camera and she just talks

943
00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:03.539
while everyone looks at her back.

944
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.599
The whole bloody point of this blocking is that you're supposed to

945
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:08.219
see the reactions of the people behind them.

946
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:09.719
But they're blurred out.

947
00:42:10.739 --> 00:42:12.480
What's the point?

948
00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:15.119
It's just Marina Science talking to a fucking camera.

949
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:18.599
Yeah, I know, but you get to see her face and she looks fabulous.

950
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:19.980
Look at the business.

951
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.880
Brent Spider's got his arms folded now, looking at his, looking at

952
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:25.920
his nails, looking up to the sky.

953
00:42:25.980 --> 00:42:28.260
He's winning this scene off everybody.

954
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.559
So how do they how do they know all this stuff?

955
00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:36.480
How does how does Marinas possessor know about Admiral Uta, Nasu

956
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:38.400
of Starbate, Starbase 12?

957
00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:39.599
Really, does it?

958
00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:40.320
Okay.

959
00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:46.380
Like, maybe she read a manual or something or...

960
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:47.699
I don't think we ever learn, do we?

961
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:48.360
No, no.

962
00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:51.059
Well, I'm convinced then they must really be Starfleet.

963
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:55.679
Do you know, did I tell you Michael Piller was scathing about this

964
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:55.980
episode?

965
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:56.940
Oh, really?

966
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:01.079
Because he said he went, you know, it was executed really, really

967
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:01.380
well.

968
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.199
He said, but we dropped the ball on this script.

969
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:07.260
He said, we just, it just, it was so empty.

970
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:09.420
It wasn't about anything in the end of today.

971
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:10.079
Yeah.

972
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:13.920
But I think it doesn't have to be about, I mean, look, it would be

973
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.699
better if it was about something, if we could empathise with these

974
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:18.059
people.

975
00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:23.639
And as it stands, it is, here's a space problem and we're going to

976
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:27.300
use our ingenuity to solve it and then we'll do something else.

977
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:28.920
We learn anything about these people.

978
00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:31.320
Obviously, we're learning now who they're not.

979
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:34.380
Yeah, so we spend a bit of time learning about who they aren't.

980
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:35.219
Yeah.

981
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:40.079
So we do learn that they're criminals from some space society and

982
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:43.800
they've been disembodied and thrown into the winds of this planet

983
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.980
to kind of... state of affairs.

984
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:48.179
It does seem bad.

985
00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:52.739
Oh, I always love it when they go into these...

986
00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:54.300
Is it just for tubes, yeah.

987
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:54.840
Yeah.

988
00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:57.960
Nice to be a little bit tight and claustrophobic, you know, the

989
00:43:57.960 --> 00:43:58.559
lights are down.

990
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:00.659
It's a really funny line.

991
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:05.340
As we go along in 90s track, they learn how to shoot these scenes

992
00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:06.360
a bit more interesting.

993
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:08.880
The cameras zoom along them sometimes, you know?

994
00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:12.179
Yeah, in the game. when Wesley being chased about.

995
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:15.360
This is what Starship designers call easy access.

996
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:17.159
I think that's correct.

997
00:44:17.340 --> 00:44:20.820
You know what's really funny is, look, that clearly is a very, very

998
00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:24.420
light piece of plastic that I was listening out for the Foley, and

999
00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:27.840
you can hear them doing meshal clanging sound effects, you know?

1000
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:29.940
Brilliant.

1001
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:33.900
I think they take the walls off them too, sometimes.

1002
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:36.780
Like, so they can shoot into them and have the characters walk

1003
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:37.199
past.

1004
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:39.420
They take the wall off the Jeffrey's tube.

1005
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:40.679
Really?

1006
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:41.699
Is this the best they could do?

1007
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:44.940
We're going to create a ring of light and they've got to walk into

1008
00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:45.179
it.

1009
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:49.079
So suddenly they're sending smoke signals to the people in 104 say

1010
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:50.039
right, you've got to get them in that ring.

1011
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:52.860
Yeah, yeah, essentially.

1012
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.900
I mean, that's all a bit basic, isn't it?

1013
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:55.980
Want to just gas them?

1014
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:57.599
Or we've been through all of this?

1015
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:00.179
No, because yeah, yeah, we've been through it all because part of

1016
00:45:00.179 --> 00:45:02.159
the problem is data is possessed.

1017
00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:05.519
And so it needs to be something that's going to knock out data and

1018
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.260
the other two.

1019
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:08.400
I just remembered something.

1020
00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:12.300
I've just remember in season 5 of the Space 9, the assignment

1021
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:12.539
right?

1022
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:16.559
That's the one where Keiko gets possessed by a par race, right?

1023
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:17.099
Right.

1024
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.860
And Rosin Chow is fucking chilling in this role, brushing Molly's

1025
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:27.239
hair really slowly and threatening O'Brien, saying, come on, we're

1026
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.360
going to go to bed and fuck, even though she's possessed. and all

1027
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:30.659
of this.

1028
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:35.579
It doesn't, doesn't, um, like, uh, Molly cry out.

1029
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.480
Ow, mommy, that hurt, you know, like, She's like, oh, darling

1030
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:40.019
don't worry.

1031
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:43.739
I just wanted to let daddy know he's got 4 hours before he can

1032
00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:44.159
come home.

1033
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:46.679
Anyway, she's amazing.

1034
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:50.400
At one point she turns to the camera and she goes, if you don't do

1035
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:51.840
what I want, I'm going to kill your wife.

1036
00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:53.340
Like, how old is anything?

1037
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.960
And you're right. terrific acting.

1038
00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:58.920
But sorry, my point of bringing this up is not only that, you know

1039
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:01.079
we've got one of the characters from this episode in a different

1040
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:01.860
possessed episode.

1041
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:07.019
Yeah, but O'Brien talks to the computer in a scene where he goes

1042
00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:10.559
through every single thing they tried in this episode in about 3

1043
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:10.800
minutes.

1044
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.800
He goes, how about knocking around with a narritazine gas?

1045
00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:15.420
How about this?

1046
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.219
How is everything from PowerPlay?

1047
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:18.659
He literally goes for everything.

1048
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:19.679
That's tremendous.

1049
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:21.719
And he can't do it.

1050
00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:22.619
He can't do it.

1051
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:24.659
And in the end, he asked, what does he do?

1052
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:28.320
Oh, electricity comes from the wormhole and laughs the pile right

1053
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:28.860
out of her.

1054
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:33.659
It's amazing But I will say, I think that is a stronger episode

1055
00:46:33.659 --> 00:46:36.840
than this and it's because there is the character focus in there.

1056
00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:37.800
Yeah, yeah.

1057
00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:38.340
You know?

1058
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:42.480
Yeah, I mean, this stuff, you know, you wouldn't do a police

1059
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:49.139
procedural now that was as thin as far, you know, character wise

1060
00:46:49.139 --> 00:46:51.119
as this.

1061
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:57.239
And maybe there's, I don't know enough about the history of

1062
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:02.099
American television in the 90s or whatever, but maybe this is kind

1063
00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:06.119
of before we start thinking along those lines, because Voyager

1064
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:10.199
does the same thing, you know, years later, it will do a space

1065
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:13.679
problem episode that isn't really directly connected to a hostage

1066
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:14.820
scenario every other week.

1067
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:15.900
Yeah.

1068
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:21.659
I do remember X-Files did a hostage episode like this called

1069
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:23.039
Dwayne Barry in series 2.

1070
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.980
Oh, that was exceptionally good.

1071
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:27.599
Yeah, yeah. so well acted.

1072
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.260
Oh, is a column media being creepy?

1073
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.280
This, Russell.

1074
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.559
Yeah, yeah.

1075
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:41.579
And Troy's the one that says, stop it, isn't she?

1076
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:42.300
Fake Troy.

1077
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:43.380
Well, because she's normal.

1078
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.900
She's like, she's not a psychopath, you know.

1079
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.980
Patrick Stewart's quite happy to get to sit down for most of this

1080
00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:50.340
episode.

1081
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:51.239
He's just sitting on the floor.

1082
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:56.340
The southern polar area.

1083
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:01.559
You'd think you get to a point where you'd start to make

1084
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:03.900
provisions for people being taken over, wouldn't you?

1085
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:05.219
You know, they would have things in place.

1086
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.519
You've got a scanner that you've got to go for every time you've

1087
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:10.920
been in that says, right, have they been possessed?

1088
00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:12.599
Well, how do you tell?

1089
00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:13.440
How do you tell?

1090
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.840
Well, I don't watch them.

1091
00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:17.159
And then Star Trek, the babble.

1092
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:19.679
This is very strange as well.

1093
00:48:19.739 --> 00:48:25.800
Like they're ghosts and so they need to be buried and that and

1094
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.179
that's what...

1095
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:31.619
That's kind of what alerts Picard, isn't it?

1096
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:34.260
Because he does say, how does that work?

1097
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:35.400
Like, how does that work?

1098
00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:36.780
Burying your bones.

1099
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:42.300
You know, um, but just, it's the wrong show for that to be the

1100
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:42.659
solution.

1101
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:43.320
So as well.

1102
00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:47.099
Like, even if they're disembodied, angry Starfleet people, they

1103
00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:48.539
really wouldn't be behaving like this.

1104
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.940
This is not how, listen, that's what alerts him.

1105
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:52.260
He just said to her then.

1106
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:54.000
Like, I'll take you home.

1107
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:55.079
There's no need to do any of this.

1108
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:57.539
Like, you're Starfleet.

1109
00:48:57.599 --> 00:48:58.320
I'm Starfleet.

1110
00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:00.059
Let's got a deal, you know.

1111
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:01.739
And that is the resolution.

1112
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.460
Like the resolution is perhaps a little bit better than pillar

1113
00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:07.019
suggests, although it's not superb.

1114
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:15.059
Um, but the resolution is the reason that they win is because they

1115
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:23.400
all of them, including um, including Keiko, love something more

1116
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:27.480
than just themselves and are prepared to sacrifice.

1117
00:49:27.539 --> 00:49:28.380
Oh, here we go.

1118
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:29.099
So, is in the ring.

1119
00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:30.059
So, all moving into the ring.

1120
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:33.900
And now we're going to press them up the bridge and talk to them

1121
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:38.340
for like 45 seconds and then when we press the button, one of them

1122
00:49:38.340 --> 00:49:38.880
wanders out.

1123
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:40.679
Oh, they got to be in the ring for 7 seconds.

1124
00:49:40.739 --> 00:49:42.300
But it doesn't matter.

1125
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.059
Just press the button as they go in the fucking ring.

1126
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:46.980
Why are you doing dialogue?

1127
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:48.599
What is going on?

1128
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.420
Oh, for goodness sake, it's gone.

1129
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.159
It would have been quite fun.

1130
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:55.739
Would have been then if the different ghosts went into the

1131
00:49:55.739 --> 00:49:56.219
different bodies.

1132
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:57.900
And they're playing something different.

1133
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.699
You know that would have been quite fun.

1134
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:00.360
A bit different.

1135
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:03.840
Oh my god, this is hilarious.

1136
00:50:03.900 --> 00:50:07.079
And Patrick Stewart is trying to sell being throttled to death by

1137
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:08.099
data brilliantly.

1138
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.840
The balls immediately.

1139
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:14.099
Do you think he's on a chair or something on a stool?

1140
00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:16.739
I think this is the point where this is the point where Patrick

1141
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:17.880
Stewart was saying, right.

1142
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:21.059
If you want to keep me in this shitty show, I want more romances

1143
00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:22.980
and I'm going to direct some episodes, all right?

1144
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:28.980
I just love how the little lights go back inside their chests

1145
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:30.420
bless. kind of cute.

1146
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:32.820
Well, Troy has form with little lights going inside her, you

1147
00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:32.940
know?

1148
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:33.900
That's what I think.

1149
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:34.860
That's what I was thinking.

1150
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:36.300
Either she's possessed or pregnant.

1151
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:41.699
Even when alcohol drain the energy off her, there was a little

1152
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:42.539
light that went in there.

1153
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:43.800
Yeah, that's true.

1154
00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:45.780
Just a terrible time.

1155
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:47.820
I know why she sticks around if I'm honest with you, yeah.

1156
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:48.179
No.

1157
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.239
Shake this into people's boring emotional problems.

1158
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:52.500
She's being possessed.

1159
00:50:53.099 --> 00:50:54.840
But you know what?

1160
00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:58.079
Looking at this episode dramatically, yeah.

1161
00:50:58.139 --> 00:51:03.480
I think the reason why I like the 1st 15 minutes is that there is

1162
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.179
a suspense of not knowing where this is going.

1163
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.519
Like you know something's off.

1164
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:10.139
They're upside down.

1165
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:11.400
They're flying upside down.

1166
00:51:11.460 --> 00:51:14.639
The enterprise is currently upside down, under a planet.

1167
00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:17.039
Or over a planet rather.

1168
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:20.639
Under south. know about these things.

1169
00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:26.880
And so there is an interest in waiting for them to make their

1170
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:27.420
move.

1171
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:28.139
Yeah.

1172
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:29.880
And I don't think that goes on long enough.

1173
00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:33.119
And then I think we spent a bit too long in 10 forward going

1174
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:35.400
through the hostage scenario situation.

1175
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:40.980
Because you skip forward to season 5 of Voyager, Equinox.

1176
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:46.679
They do a two-parter and their whole 1st episode is they meet this

1177
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:48.300
ship, there's something wrong.

1178
00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:51.780
Then they the equinox crew start having these conversations, but

1179
00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:54.239
they're like, okay, we're going to take over soon.

1180
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:56.460
And then you're just waiting and you're waiting and you're waiting

1181
00:51:56.460 --> 00:51:59.159
and the tension ratches up until when they finally get there in

1182
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:00.239
like the last 10 minutes.

1183
00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:02.460
It's a really satisfying episode.

1184
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:06.840
And I think sometimes the dramas in waiting for something exciting

1185
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:10.260
to happen rather than the kind of the result of it.

1186
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:15.179
Well, I mean, this is, there's nothing here that you couldn't do

1187
00:52:15.179 --> 00:52:17.579
on a police procedural, I guess.

1188
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.019
Apart from the possession, maybe.

1189
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:21.179
Not a lot of possession of police procedures.

1190
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:23.699
But the X-Files did that in series one.

1191
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:28.440
But having the, having the, you know, like having just 3 criminals

1192
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:32.940
come into a bar and hold everyone hostage and the police chief has

1193
00:52:32.940 --> 00:52:34.320
to go in and negotiate and stuff.

1194
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:36.539
It's kind of played.

1195
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:39.360
And unless you are going to do something interesting.

1196
00:52:39.420 --> 00:52:44.340
And I guess for this show, the thing that makes it interesting is

1197
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:46.440
the criminals are played by our 3 regulars.

1198
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:47.760
Seeing them out of character.

1199
00:52:47.820 --> 00:52:48.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1200
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:49.500
And that is fun.

1201
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:51.000
That's a non-negligible pleasure.

1202
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:51.659
I like it.

1203
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:54.000
And particularly, I love Marina doing it.

1204
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:57.000
But it's not conceptually a very interesting...

1205
00:52:57.059 --> 00:53:00.360
I just think once once I've taken over 10 forward, so narratively

1206
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:01.320
this isn't very interesting anymore.

1207
00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:01.920
Yeah.

1208
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.559
You're just waiting for them to be defeated because you know that

1209
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:08.639
by the end of this episode, Troy Data and O'Brien are going to be

1210
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:12.239
there for themselves again, you know, and this bunch in 10 Ford

1211
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:12.960
are not going to die.

1212
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:13.980
Yeah.

1213
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:14.639
Yeah.

1214
00:53:14.699 --> 00:53:18.300
But but they're starting to get the upper hand after their fuck up

1215
00:53:18.300 --> 00:53:19.619
in the Jeffries tube.

1216
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:26.639
And so they, you know, like they, they managed to get them out of

1217
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:26.880
there.

1218
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:31.260
And again, that's just sort of a sort of fairly standard siege

1219
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:31.739
thing.

1220
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:33.480
You know, like you get them out of there.

1221
00:53:33.539 --> 00:53:36.960
So they're not, you know, you reduce the number of hostages, all

1222
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:37.679
of that sort of thing.

1223
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:40.860
This is all the sort of thing that we've seen done heaps before.

1224
00:53:41.579 --> 00:53:43.619
Yeah, I don't know.

1225
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:48.119
It gives Patrick the chancellor as well to kind of play along, you

1226
00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:49.739
know, do his play along acting.

1227
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:51.179
Yeah, we're going to go with what you want.

1228
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:55.139
And also I think there's just a sort of baseline of pleasure about

1229
00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:59.699
you know, the ship and the pyjamas and now regulars and all of

1230
00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:00.539
that sort of thing.

1231
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:03.000
Like, you know, this is a police procedural.

1232
00:54:03.179 --> 00:54:03.780
Oh, you know what?

1233
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:07.619
If somebody was having a terrible day and they chose to come home

1234
00:54:07.619 --> 00:54:11.099
wrap a blanket around them and watch PowerPlay, because they're a

1235
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:15.840
TNG fan, as absolute popcorn come from viewing, I would absolutely

1236
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:16.440
I would understand that.

1237
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:19.500
You know, it's really solidly enjoyable.

1238
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:20.400
Yeah.

1239
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:21.239
Yeah.

1240
00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:21.719
Yeah.

1241
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:24.360
Yeah.

1242
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:28.920
Hey, what I just, maybe, maybe, our problem is then is we've just

1243
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:30.900
come to expect more from television.

1244
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:31.739
Yeah, yeah.

1245
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:32.820
Well, I think that's it.

1246
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:33.360
Yeah.

1247
00:54:33.420 --> 00:54:36.840
And you say, you said like, you know, discovery like TNG, it took

1248
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.719
a while to find its groove, but when it did find its groove, it

1249
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:41.219
doesn't really dip in quality, does it?

1250
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:44.940
It's consistently extremely well made and all of that.

1251
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:48.360
But I mean, I think this is well made.

1252
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:52.619
This is as well made as a very good Star Trek episode is.

1253
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:54.360
It's just the script's not that interesting.

1254
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:57.599
And the concept's not that interesting, but I think this is sort

1255
00:54:57.599 --> 00:54:58.139
of well done.

1256
00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:00.420
I mean, you know, what have we had?

1257
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:01.679
We've had some stunt work.

1258
00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:04.800
We've had the fantastic fucking shuttle on...

1259
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:06.300
Got a wonderful tracking shot here.

1260
00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.440
We've lots of blocking.

1261
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:09.599
Everyone in shot as they walk along the corridor.

1262
00:55:12.659 --> 00:55:16.260
Oh, God. how young Patrick Stewart is. furtive in the background.

1263
00:55:16.380 --> 00:55:19.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. doing his furtive acting.

1264
00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:21.539
How are you?

1265
00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:23.639
There's in there with the camera in there.

1266
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:25.980
Squeeze up, wouldn't they?

1267
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:28.320
The reason why Brent Spine is really going for it.

1268
00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:30.000
Don't get to remote very often, does he?

1269
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:30.780
No, that's it.

1270
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:31.079
Yeah.

1271
00:55:31.139 --> 00:55:34.320
It's like, right, I'm really, oh, there's those plastic containers

1272
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:36.000
I took this out of in low decks.

1273
00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:37.320
That's right.

1274
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.760
Why aren't they hexagonal?

1275
00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:40.440
What do you imagine they contain?

1276
00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:42.960
Is that like mostly supplies or something?

1277
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:46.079
Wheels?

1278
00:55:46.139 --> 00:55:48.420
Extra...

1279
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:49.380
That's right.

1280
00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:53.400
I think it's going to fall on the floor, something like that.

1281
00:55:53.460 --> 00:55:54.179
Yeah, probably.

1282
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:56.699
I think you'd have to put that in a cupboard or something, though.

1283
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:58.260
Here we go.

1284
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:02.039
This is the great confrontation between Troy and Picard now.

1285
00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:03.119
Yeah, yeah.

1286
00:56:03.179 --> 00:56:06.480
And this is where he just sort of calls her on her bullshit, you

1287
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:09.539
know, like, oh, Yeah, we're just the ghosts of Starfleet officers

1288
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:12.119
and we need our bones being taken to earth.

1289
00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:14.099
You know, you are full of shit, yeah.

1290
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:22.860
See, like when Battlestar Galactica did a hostage scenario story

1291
00:56:22.860 --> 00:56:27.659
yeah, on a prison ship, they murdered after prison, they massacred

1292
00:56:27.659 --> 00:56:28.260
loads of people.

1293
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:31.739
And I think, like, if you're going to lean into these cliches like

1294
00:56:31.739 --> 00:56:35.039
this, like, you kind of need to, you even need to shock or you

1295
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:37.199
need to surprise...

1296
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:38.880
That's not something that's available.

1297
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:39.719
They absolutely could.

1298
00:56:39.780 --> 00:56:41.579
They can't kill anyone.

1299
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:43.920
Yes, I would.

1300
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:46.860
Yeah, maybe.

1301
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:52.079
But, like, I mean, that's just not available.

1302
00:56:52.139 --> 00:56:54.659
And this is, like I said before, it's family friendly science

1303
00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:55.199
fiction.

1304
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:58.860
I think that Battlestar Galactica does a really, really good job

1305
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:04.500
of having a massive, massive regular cast who you know well and

1306
00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:08.039
who you care about and, you know, it ramps up the stakes in all

1307
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:09.300
sorts of ways.

1308
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:16.079
And it is shot in a way that is a bit more visceral than this.

1309
00:57:16.139 --> 00:57:18.539
You know, this is very stagey.

1310
00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:22.199
I was trying to think of the hostage scenario episode that DS9

1311
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:22.440
did.

1312
00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:23.519
I've just remembered what it is.

1313
00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:30.000
It's series 2's invasive procedures where there's a trill host, as

1314
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.179
played by John Glover, fantastic performers.

1315
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:37.380
They've evacuated the whole station, which is handy, because

1316
00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:38.760
otherwise there'll be a lot of people around.

1317
00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:42.239
And they get everybody in ops, don't they?

1318
00:57:42.300 --> 00:57:45.900
And they take the symbion out of backs, put it in John Glover.

1319
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:49.199
So there's a real character angle to that one as well, isn't

1320
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:49.380
there?

1321
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:53.400
along with Tim Russ playing a Klingon and being super hot in that

1322
00:57:53.400 --> 00:57:53.760
as well.

1323
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:54.539
So good.

1324
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:57.059
I've been reading his tweets.

1325
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:57.840
He's a cool guy.

1326
00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.460
Tim Ross?

1327
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:02.940
Yeah, he's properly political and angry. fabulous.

1328
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.159
He's got gray hair now and he looks amazing.

1329
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:06.960
Do you know what?

1330
00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:09.179
I can't wait till that Voyager documentary comes out because I

1331
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:11.099
think he's going to have a choice for things to say about Stanley

1332
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:12.360
Beyond a security console.

1333
00:58:13.500 --> 00:58:15.539
Is he in the trailer for that?

1334
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:15.960
Oh, sorry.

1335
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:19.139
So this is the climax, right?

1336
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:25.679
So, The, when now we've discovered this, that the prisoners are

1337
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:28.800
all going to take over the bodies of the Enterprise crew and

1338
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:31.320
they're going to take the ship and that's how they're going to

1339
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:32.400
escape from their prison.

1340
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:34.079
I'm sorry.

1341
00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:35.039
I'm sorry to interrupt you.

1342
00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:36.300
Can you hear this dialogue?

1343
00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:36.900
Yeah, yeah.

1344
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.239
I would die for the sake of my child.

1345
00:58:39.300 --> 00:58:40.860
And then Wolf comes in the other side.

1346
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:43.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. to die as a Klingon.

1347
00:58:43.139 --> 00:58:43.920
Fuck off.

1348
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:46.440
Yeah, yeah, but, but I know.

1349
00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:47.940
It's cheesy as hell.

1350
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:52.079
But that's the point, though, isn't it, that these people have

1351
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.440
some kind of principles that acknowledge something and are part of

1352
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:57.719
something bigger and that's why they win.

1353
00:58:57.780 --> 00:59:00.000
And they don't even have to kill these guys.

1354
00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:05.159
All they need to do is convince them that they mean it. that, you

1355
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:06.300
know, and that's what they do.

1356
00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:08.579
So they don't kill the guys.

1357
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:14.099
All they do is convince them that they'll blow them.

1358
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:15.179
They're not just convincing them.

1359
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:16.559
They genuinely mean it.

1360
00:59:16.619 --> 00:59:18.659
Yeah, well, they know.

1361
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:19.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1362
00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:20.219
That's why they convince them.

1363
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:21.900
That's why they convince them that they mean it.

1364
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:22.559
Yeah.

1365
00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:24.059
Honestly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1366
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:27.599
I want someone in Star Trek to be like, nah, I'm not sucking.

1367
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:28.199
I'm not going to do that.

1368
00:59:28.260 --> 00:59:29.940
That's what lower decks is for.

1369
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.920
But, you know, but, I mean, we're talking about, you know

1370
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:41.460
protecting the baby, like, would miles and Keiko die if that, they

1371
00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:44.940
knew that Molly would be looked after by that nice white woman who

1372
00:59:44.940 --> 00:59:49.559
was sitting there next to, next to Rosslyn Chow in Ted Ford.

1373
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:51.420
And of course they would, you know.

1374
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:52.380
Excuse me.

1375
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:56.940
Awesome, Keiko, send off that older Molly in times orphan to live

1376
00:59:56.940 --> 00:59:57.900
in the wilderness, you know.

1377
00:59:57.960 --> 00:59:59.099
Terrible.

1378
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:00.659
It's really...

1379
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:01.500
I forget that one.

1380
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:03.960
I said I wanted a terrible DSI episode.

1381
01:00:04.019 --> 01:00:05.219
Let's make it that one.

1382
01:00:05.579 --> 01:00:09.119
Although it does have the scenes with warf and the baby rowl.

1383
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:11.639
This is really funny as well.

1384
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:16.139
You have no idea.

1385
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:21.719
I would like to say, though, I was getting very excited then to

1386
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:26.340
talk to you about the Star Trek Voyager documentary trailer over

1387
01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:27.659
the climax of this episode.

1388
01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:29.280
There might be a reason for that.

1389
01:00:29.340 --> 01:00:31.019
I would see it.

1390
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:31.500
Yeah.

1391
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:33.179
Oh my god, look at Molly.

1392
01:00:34.739 --> 01:00:36.840
So gorgeous.

1393
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:40.019
I don't think that's Hannah Hattay, you know.

1394
01:00:40.019 --> 01:00:42.300
I think it probably isn't Hannah Hattay yet.

1395
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:42.599
No.

1396
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:45.599
That maybe doesn't look omation.

1397
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:46.920
At all.

1398
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:50.820
Oh, dear.

1399
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:52.380
Do you know, Hannah hat is amazing.

1400
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:53.579
Oh, no.

1401
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:56.039
Just and stunning as well.

1402
01:00:56.099 --> 01:00:56.699
She's really cool.

1403
01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:58.619
He's in my room.

1404
01:01:00.179 --> 01:01:02.460
No, but you've seen her now.

1405
01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:04.440
Like, she's just a beautiful young woman.

1406
01:01:04.500 --> 01:01:05.159
She's fantastic.

1407
01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:06.659
Yeah, yeah.

1408
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:10.019
Well, it's like Scarlet Pomers, who played Naomi Wildman.

1409
01:01:10.139 --> 01:01:10.739
Oh, really?

1410
01:01:10.739 --> 01:01:13.079
They've all blossomed into these beautiful women.

1411
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:13.980
Yeah.

1412
01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:14.820
Astonishing.

1413
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:19.619
And it's like, oh, you know, you said that, um, Worf gets hit by

1414
01:01:19.619 --> 01:01:22.139
one of those containers in ethics.

1415
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:24.900
We don't believe what episodes just started on Netflix.

1416
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:26.880
Oh, is ethics next, is it?

1417
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:30.780
Now, look here now, but okay.

1418
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:34.500
Okay, I feel as if I have been hugely critical of the next

1419
01:01:34.500 --> 01:01:37.079
generation throughout this commentary.

1420
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:40.139
I'm not apologetic about it at all.

1421
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:42.119
No, I think it's quite fair.

1422
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:47.699
Like, you know, I enjoyed this watching it the other night, but

1423
01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:52.679
it's not a standout episode and it's not, you know, it's business

1424
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:53.579
as usual.

1425
01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:57.179
And in fact, it's a little bit less ambitious than quite a lot of

1426
01:01:57.179 --> 01:01:57.360
them.

1427
01:01:57.420 --> 01:02:00.599
But it doesn't face plant spectacularly, and that is an option

1428
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:01.199
available.

1429
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:03.900
Well, an option that many...

1430
01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:07.679
Star Trek, the Next Generation episode, decide to track.

1431
01:02:07.739 --> 01:02:09.900
I think 90s straight, you know.

1432
01:02:09.900 --> 01:02:12.840
If you're competent, you're winning.

1433
01:02:12.900 --> 01:02:14.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1434
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:14.460
Yeah.

1435
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:17.039
No one sort of embarrasses themselves or anything like that

1436
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:19.679
there's a few sort of silly nonsense moments.

1437
01:02:19.739 --> 01:02:22.920
But there is something about the appeal of that.

1438
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:24.539
And I think it is...

1439
01:02:24.539 --> 01:02:28.920
Like it's hang time with these people on this ship.

1440
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:34.619
And I'm still excited by that back in sort of 1994 or whatever it

1441
01:02:34.619 --> 01:02:35.880
was when I 1st saw this.

1442
01:02:35.940 --> 01:02:37.920
Can you do me a favour then?

1443
01:02:37.980 --> 01:02:43.320
Because I feel like, you know, I have thrown the arrow right

1444
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:45.659
through the heart of the next generation for the last hour.

1445
01:02:46.019 --> 01:02:47.940
Let's both do this.

1446
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:48.480
Little game.

1447
01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:53.280
Name an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation that you think is

1448
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:57.300
extremely good, but not an obvious one because I've got one

1449
01:02:57.300 --> 01:02:58.380
straight straight off the bat.

1450
01:02:58.380 --> 01:03:01.380
So I'm going to say family.

1451
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:03.659
Season four, episode two.

1452
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.000
And I think it is a well liked episode.

1453
01:03:06.059 --> 01:03:06.719
Don't get me wrong.

1454
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:09.420
But it's very atypical for the next generation.

1455
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.199
It's an episode like with consequences, with fantastic character

1456
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:14.219
work and acting.

1457
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:16.440
They go outside, so even you'll be happy.

1458
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:18.480
Yeah, they do.

1459
01:03:18.539 --> 01:03:23.699
Like, like, that's the standard. that TNG can hit for me.

1460
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:26.940
And interestingly, they had to fight for that episode.

1461
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.519
Yeah, I did not want them to do it.

1462
01:03:29.579 --> 01:03:33.599
Yeah, because it's there's no not even a scene on the bridge.

1463
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:37.380
I know you're going to throw something completely left field. and

1464
01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:38.820
don't you dare say masks.

1465
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:44.159
I would nominate, and I don't know if this one's on anyone else's

1466
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:48.599
kind of top 10 list, and it might not be on mine, but I think who

1467
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:53.159
watches the watches is a particularly phenomenal.

1468
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:53.820
Yeah.

1469
01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:58.019
And it's the cultural contamination thing that they're worried

1470
01:03:58.019 --> 01:04:01.139
about, but the cultural contamination that they're committing is

1471
01:04:01.139 --> 01:04:07.199
actually bringing religion to a sort of race of proto-Vulcans who

1472
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:11.519
are just rational and don't believe in anything sort of

1473
01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:12.360
supernatural.

1474
01:04:12.420 --> 01:04:18.900
And the careful way that they have to handle that situation.

1475
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:21.420
I think is really magnificent.

1476
01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:23.400
It's very, very good, I think.

1477
01:04:23.460 --> 01:04:26.280
To show how many times I've watched that episode.

1478
01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:30.239
I'm going to prove it to you now by quoting Picard to be ready.

1479
01:04:30.300 --> 01:04:34.260
And now you want me to sabotage that achievement and send them

1480
01:04:34.260 --> 01:04:38.159
back into the days of fear and oh no, I've forgotten the line.

1481
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:40.500
But he just goes, no.

1482
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:42.300
I will not do that.

1483
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:43.980
Oh my god, it's a terrific episode.

1484
01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:45.719
No, it is really, really good.

1485
01:04:45.780 --> 01:04:48.000
And I mean, but there are definitely...

1486
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.820
Season 3, I think.

1487
01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:54.179
And it's just when the show is like, wow. my god.

1488
01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:55.739
Where's this do this?

1489
01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:56.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1490
01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:57.659
Yeah.

1491
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:02.639
The fact is that even though the hit rate of Star Trek, the Next

1492
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:06.360
Generation isn't particularly high, I think so many people had

1493
01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:13.019
affection for it that we got to spinoffs and then a 3rd spinoff

1494
01:05:13.019 --> 01:05:14.159
sometime after that.

1495
01:05:14.219 --> 01:05:15.599
And you know what, right?

1496
01:05:15.659 --> 01:05:21.059
I, you know, as much as I can say, perhaps this isn't the TV for

1497
01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:25.500
me now, it certainly was the TV for me then because I was obsessed

1498
01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:26.699
with this show back in the day.

1499
01:05:26.699 --> 01:05:30.420
And, you know, and it led me to DS9, which is one of my, you know

1500
01:05:30.420 --> 01:05:31.260
top 2 favourite shows.

1501
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:37.800
But there is a reason why next year for season 3 of Picard, they

1502
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:42.059
are bringing together this entire bloody 20 years after this show

1503
01:05:42.059 --> 01:05:46.019
went off the air, and that is because there is a love for this

1504
01:05:46.019 --> 01:05:49.619
show that pretty much, you know, I don't think any other Star Trek

1505
01:05:49.619 --> 01:05:50.039
show has.

1506
01:05:50.099 --> 01:05:53.280
I don't want to depress you, but it's nearly 30 years.

1507
01:05:54.179 --> 01:05:55.980
Thank you very much.

1508
01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:57.119
I feel extremely old now.

1509
01:06:03.780 --> 01:06:08.219
All right, so it's time to choose our next episode, and it's your

1510
01:06:08.219 --> 01:06:12.719
turn, Joe, so I'm assuming you're on untitled Star Trek project

1511
01:06:12.059 --> 01:06:13.619
com slash randomiser.

1512
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:17.579
I am, and I am pleased to report that I know for a fact that

1513
01:06:17.579 --> 01:06:19.320
people are using the randomiser.

1514
01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:20.880
So yay, you people.

1515
01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:22.139
Yeah.

1516
01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:27.360
So, what series are we choosing from?

1517
01:06:27.780 --> 01:06:32.940
Well, after a glut of 90s trek episodes, I think we need to

1518
01:06:32.940 --> 01:06:37.500
abandon that for a little while and talk about something else.

1519
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:38.039
All right.

1520
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:41.460
Now, I think this tips us in the favour of Kersman Trek now

1521
01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:41.880
doesn't it?

1522
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:42.539
Probably.

1523
01:06:42.599 --> 01:06:44.219
Yeah, no, probably.

1524
01:06:44.340 --> 01:06:47.460
I don't think we've done enough curse many of my minds.

1525
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:51.000
I don't think we've explored the highs and lows of Kurtzman Trek

1526
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:51.659
enough yet.

1527
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:54.780
So, we could get an animated series, one.

1528
01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:57.780
And as the case, we will absolutely do it.

1529
01:06:57.840 --> 01:06:59.340
All right, okay.

1530
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:01.559
Are you ready to press a button?

1531
01:07:01.619 --> 01:07:02.940
Oh my god.

1532
01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:04.860
It is an animated series episode.

1533
01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:06.900
Oh, okay, show me, show me, show me, show me.

1534
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.699
It's one you've talked about before.

1535
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:09.780
BEM.

1536
01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:11.219
Oh my god.

1537
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:12.059
Okay.

1538
01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:14.699
So when we did I excretis.

1539
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:19.320
You remember that there is that alien who comes on board to

1540
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:22.199
evaluate the crew and she has a detachable head?

1541
01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:23.760
Oh, yeah.

1542
01:07:23.820 --> 01:07:24.539
Yeah.

1543
01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:27.480
Well, she was from an alien race.

1544
01:07:27.539 --> 01:07:28.380
Yeah, from the same species.

1545
01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:29.519
You say it, yeah.

1546
01:07:29.579 --> 01:07:31.019
So this introduces them.

1547
01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:34.559
Unfortunately, I've done what I always do once you're talking

1548
01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:36.239
about it. is I pressed it again.

1549
01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:37.019
Yeah, okay.

1550
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:40.739
Oh. think this is considered a bit of a classic.

1551
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:41.579
Oh, okay.

1552
01:07:41.639 --> 01:07:43.800
I can't remember ever watching it though.

1553
01:07:43.860 --> 01:07:45.719
It is original series.

1554
01:07:45.780 --> 01:07:49.500
Season two, episode six, the Doomsday Machine.

1555
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:51.960
Oh, I love the doomsday machine.

1556
01:07:52.019 --> 01:07:54.900
And Shatner is so fantastic in it.

1557
01:07:54.960 --> 01:07:55.980
It's really, really good.

1558
01:07:56.099 --> 01:07:57.300
Is it?

1559
01:07:57.300 --> 01:07:59.579
That spaceship that looks a bit phallic.

1560
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:00.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1561
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:02.159
The whole one, the lights coming out of it.

1562
01:08:02.219 --> 01:08:06.599
Yeah, it's like one of the big sandworms from June or something

1563
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:09.960
really loud music, like, da, da, da, da.

1564
01:08:10.019 --> 01:08:15.059
Actually, it's, it's a very kind of, I think it's sort of front of

1565
01:08:15.059 --> 01:08:19.439
mind of the people who are doing 90s trek because it is sort of

1566
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:23.399
fairly modern in the, in its sort of sensibility.

1567
01:08:23.460 --> 01:08:24.359
I think it's really good.

1568
01:08:24.420 --> 01:08:29.340
Didn't I hear that some people had a theory that the latest season

1569
01:08:29.340 --> 01:08:32.819
of discovery was featuring the doomsday machine.

1570
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:33.840
Yeah, it wasn't.

1571
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:36.119
Oh, but was it...

1572
01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:36.779
Were it hoilers?

1573
01:08:37.739 --> 01:08:41.039
Well, there was a big scary thing, but it was several light years

1574
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:43.020
across and it wasn't that?

1575
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:44.880
Several light years across.

1576
01:08:44.939 --> 01:08:45.899
That sounds amazing.

1577
01:08:46.020 --> 01:08:47.100
Pretty good.

1578
01:08:47.220 --> 01:08:48.539
Pretty good.

1579
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:49.979
Look forward to getting to that.

1580
01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:51.779
But I think we should do the doom same machine.

1581
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:53.340
Yep, all right, I'm on.

1582
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:54.180
Let's do it.

1583
01:09:03.239 --> 01:09:07.739
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1584
01:09:07.739 --> 01:09:09.000
and Nathan Bottomley.

1585
01:09:09.060 --> 01:09:12.659
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where

1586
01:09:12.659 --> 01:09:15.659
you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1587
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:19.800
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was

1588
01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:21.479
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1589
01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:25.800
This episode was recorded on the 10th of April 2022 and released

1590
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:27.420
on the 22nd of April.

1591
01:09:27.479 --> 01:09:31.680
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, The

1592
01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:32.939
Doomsday Machine.