WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-10-08 at 20:54:24

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we are not aboard Deep Space 9 this week.

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This is actually one of 4 Deep Space 9 episodes to have no scenes actually on the station itself.

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Instant trivia. love it.

5
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What are the other three?

6
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Tell me.

7
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I can't remember, but I think probably home front and paradise lost.

8
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There are a few scenes.

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Just remember Dax is moving around Odo's furniture at the start of that one.

10
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I can't remember.

11
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I can't remember.

12
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But it's the last episode not to feature any scenes on the station.

13
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And it is the last episode where we're in the Gamma Quadrant as well.

14
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No.

15
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There's still 2 seasons to go.

16
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People tend to come and visit us. after that.

17
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So this is Deep Space Night.

18
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Series 5, episode 22.

19
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Children of Time, which 1st aired on the 5th of May, 1997.

20
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I had seen this, but I didn't remember it well, and I thought it was spectacular, really very good indeed.

21
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I remember watching this for the 1st time and it blowing me away and I am so pleased you stopped me pressing that button again last week.

22
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Because I remember I left the decision in your hands as to whether because I know we've done a lot of good DS9 lately. we've got to do some of the middling stuff eventually.

23
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Otherwise, that's all we'll be left with.

24
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But, I mean, I watched this twice this week and I just had the best time revisit.

25
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I think I reconnected with my younger self and the suspense and the tension that I felt the 1st time around as they're approaching the barrier towards the end of the episode.

26
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I was quite gripped again, even though I knew the fucking ending.

27
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Yeah, yeah.

28
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No, I think it has some surprising twists that are really good and that work.

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It's got lots of people going outside, which I think is pretty excellent.

30
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You love it.

31
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And it has some scenes of a kind that we don't normally get in Star Trek, and I think it's careful to give something to everyone to do.

32
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So, like I remarked, I think, when we did one little ship, how weird it is when the crew is aboard the Defiant, where everyone's on board the Defiant this week, for some reason, whatever.

33
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And it is sort of a little bit of a throwback, isn't it?

34
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earlier Deep Space Nine, particularly series one where they would just get 2 characters in a runabout and head off to one of Bajaw's moons or something.

35
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So here we're not on the station or we are doing a very high concept science fiction thing.

36
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But because the characters are all really well drawn and because we know them very well, they're all given pretty effective arcs.

37
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And there's a central kind of moral quandary of a kind that I normally find stupid, but that I actually found myself really quite engaged with and impressed with, you know, how each character was given the space to react to it and come to different conclusions.

38
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I thought it was just really good.

39
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If they don't manage to convince us that Miranda O'Brien and Yedrin Dax and all those people, who are flawed, right?

40
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does turn out to do a bad thing in this episode, but if they don't convince us that those people are as worthy of existence as our crew, then the last 10 minutes of this episode just doesn't work at all.

41
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And I think they sell it.

42
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It's because they cast those parts expertly and we'll talk about that.

43
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But as well, they're just, by the end of this, even O'Brien, the staunchest objector to, you know, staying and having a life on this planet because he's got a wife and kid or kids, 2 kids.

44
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He's just had a new kid born, for God's sakes. back home.

45
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Even he's saying, no, 8000 people are going to die if we leave.

46
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You know, you do make me think about something, though, Nathan.

47
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You know, saying that everybody is on the defiant.

48
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Can you imagine in the original timeline of this?

49
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Admiral Ross arriving on Deeks Baseline and going, are you telling me, I've got to recast this entire fucking show.

50
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What do you mean, they were all on the defiant, for God's sakes?

51
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I just think the characters are, and I've used this term before.

52
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We're almost in like a self-perpetuating point of deep space line where the characters are so well defined that you just have to come in with a strong science fiction idea and your stories there because those characters are so well defined.

53
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There are just directions that you can go in with them.

54
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So having Kira, in a situation where she knows she's supposed to die and that's going to change and she's religious.

55
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So there's a whole thing that's happening there.

56
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Yeah, the character beats in this are so strong.

57
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And I said to you, if this was on any other show, if this was Voyager, or if this was TNG, Like they would, they would get the nuts and bolts of the story.

58
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Right, I'm sure.

59
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But I just wouldn't be convinced by the characters.

60
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Oh, there just are, there isn't the strength of characterisation there to make it work in the way that this sings.

61
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So we do have kind of a control group, which is the enterprise episode from season three.

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I started watching it and got bored.

63
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And so it's...

64
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It's called E squared or E to the 2nd and it is similar.

65
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We come across a version of enterprise that's been thrown back in time, you know, between one and 200 years.

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And because it failed in its mission, in the Delphic expanse, Earth has been destroyed.

67
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And it's a generational ship to Polly's still alive.

68
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She's very, very old.

69
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And, you know, their kid, trip and to poll have a kid, but trips no longer alive.

70
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And we sort of get to meet all of those characters and stuff, but none of them are super compelling.

71
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And most of the show is about the mechanics of making the thing work and how are we able to make this thing work so that we can continue on our way.

72
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And in a way, the people on the older enterprise actually want them to succeed because they don't want Earth to be destroyed and they want to kind of restore the timeline.

73
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But here, what we have is these people who uh, are just people who exist.

74
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There's a minimum of technobabble, I think, like very, very little technobabble.

75
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And what there is is really effective.

76
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There's enough.

77
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Yes, exactly.

78
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Even I, Dolph Joe over here, understood what they were trying to say.

79
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There will be 2 defiance, you know, and then the twist is, absolutely, no, there won't be 2 defiance.

80
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So we'll only be one and we have to make a choice.

81
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Yes.

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Yeah.

83
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And then the moment at the end too, where we know that they've got to hit this anomaly in order to be thrown back in time and the ship just sails past it and everyone's going, wait, what happened?

84
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You know, like, like what's happened?

85
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So all of that, there was enough to set up the stakes and to explain what the solution is, what the space solution is to this week's space problem.

86
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But it was so clear.

87
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It was so well done.

88
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And because the show doesn't get bogged down in technobabble unless it's having a really bad day.

89
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It just works terrifically well.

90
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I hate the science fiction idea that there's a way that time is supposed to play out and that if it doesn't play out in this particular way something's gone wrong and that you have a moral duty to ensure that the timeline isn't changed.

91
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I just don't see how that makes any sense at all.

92
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And, you know, like if you decide that you're not going to have heterosexual sex with your opposite sex partner one night and that instead you're just going to finish the chapter of the book here and then go to sleep, you aren't then liable for the fact that the offspring that would have been produced.

93
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Never the fuck is never gets born.

94
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You know, it was a good chapter.

95
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Let's be honest.

96
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That's right.

97
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So, so, you know, like in a way, the space thing, the laws of time, the timeline, all of that sort of stuff, which is all made up, which there are no moral rules about.

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What we have instead is, of course, that there are 8000 people who do exist and they are here now and we can see them and they have plans for the future.

99
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There are children among them who talk about what they're going to do when they grow up and and all of that stuff, you know, astonishingly not annoying children as well.

100
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You know how much children annoy me on television.

101
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And these moppets are found quite tolerable. actually.

102
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No, no, no. including Gabriel, the little kid who I thought was going to sort of do real life, you know, and be like the Klingon heavy metal kid or whatever.

103
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Oh, like Molly when she says to O'Brien, yeah, you don't look busy to me.

104
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Get planted.

105
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Come on.

106
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She was sadly.

107
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I mean, I think that the kids were really good.

108
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I think that the colonists were really good.

109
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I thought that there was something really great about the way that there's a Dax there and that Dax betrays them and lies to them.

110
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I thought that was so good and so realistic.

111
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That scene.

112
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I think that scene is extraordinary in that what it asked Terry Farrell to do.

113
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She not only has to feel the guilt that she made the decisions or the bad call, that started this whole thing in the 1st place.

114
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But then I think she's also playing the guilt that she's sort of feeling because Yedrin is a Dax as well.

115
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And she's just in the back of the scene while Cisco and Yedrin are talking just with the weight of the guilt on her. absolutely silent.

116
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And then at the end of that scene, my god, she goes up to Yedrin and there's no dialogue at all.

117
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And we're just left to think what the hell are they both thinking in that moment?

118
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Yeah, she has nothing to say. than actually saying, I'm so disappointed in you.

119
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

120
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Whatever Voyager would say, you know, just point out the Peytonly obvious.

121
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Yeah, just so good.

122
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You are right, though.

123
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The whole thing about 8000 people.

124
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Like, it threatens the central premise of the show, right?

125
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We can't go back to the station if those 8000 people exist, but they're good people and they deserve to exist.

126
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So it's not a case of what's right or wrong in the timeline.

127
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It's what's right or wrong morally.

128
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And of course they deserve to exist.

129
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So I am behind them when they make the choice at the end of this, even though I know that's DS9 over with if we're going back on this planet for the rest of it.

130
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It's so good.

131
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I defy anybody to watch this for the 1st time and to be able to 2nd guess this episode.

132
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And I'm telling you now, there are many 90s trek episodes you can say that about many of them you could watch the 1st 10 minutes ago.

133
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Oh, I can pretty much see where this is going to end up.

134
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Yeah, yeah.

135
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I was surprised both times.

136
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I had had enough distance from my initial watching of it to be surprised at exactly how it turned out and I was just terribly impressed.

137
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Just how as well.

138
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I mean, I'm convinced that the ending of this episode hinges on Kira saying the word maybe to Odo.

139
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So he goes, if we'd had a chance to have a go together, would that have happened?

140
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She says maybe, then I think he makes the decision to change the defiance course.

141
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So she kind of is responsible, but utterly indirectly, which is why that last scene hits so well.

142
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Yeah, I I think that scene hits really well.

143
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I think it's super interesting, but it's very clearly not where they were going originally, and I do like where they were going originally, and we will talk about it because I do think that it ends up being something that the show drops because it's such a huge thing.

144
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It's such an enormously huge thing.

145
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And we go out on just Kira's look of just horror and incomprehension about what's been done to save her by Odo and we kind of gloss over it in future and we have lovely romantic comedy and stuff.

146
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It's one of those times where they kind of have a get out clause, don't they?

147
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Because it's not our...

148
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It's okay, yeah. who's had 200 years of grieving over Kira.

149
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So, yeah, it is him.

150
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But as the series goes forward, he's not the one that made that choice. didn't kill those people.

151
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Yeah, just it's not a cheat.

152
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It is, it is.

153
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But I don't want a series to go on with Odo being a murderer of 8000 people.

154
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No, but it is a sort of, 0 my god, you know, like a relationship with this guy.

155
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He's pretty fucking intense.

156
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Do you know what I mean?

157
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Like it is a slight red flag, I think.

158
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Where could this end up, you know?

159
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Yeah, he's never going to leave her.

160
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Oh, wait, he does.

161
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He goes back to the great length.

162
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Yeah, that's true.

163
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Last thing, because I know we'll talk about this within the episode, but the judicious use of location work in this.

164
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They just choose the exact right moments.

165
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It's not like Times Orphan, where we just had a picnic, and that was where they spent the money.

166
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No, it's those gorgeous scenes.

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Like, I think it's dusk at one point where the sun's going down and Kira's graves there in the middle of these sort of waving grass.

168
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And it just looks a butt, the planting scene, which is quite unlike anything in another... that I can think of. absolutely vital to the heart of the episode to show that community working together and to bring O'Brien on board as well.

169
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And I, within that, I just think the execution, Alo Croeca's direction, the performances on location, and even that very twee music was playing over all of it.

170
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I just think that sings.

171
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Yeah, I think that's incredible.

172
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I mean, so much of Star Trek is fist fights and people standing in standing sets talking about things.

173
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And so having a scene which is action, but not kind of action, action, it's not fighting or anything like that.

174
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But that planting scene, I think, is extraordinary.

175
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And of course, that's what they're doing on their last day is they're planting plants for their future.

176
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They don't expect to be alive by the end of the day.

177
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They say that, but what else are they going to do?

178
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And because it is about planting and future generations and all of that sort of thing.

179
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You've got the giant tree that Kira's grave is underneath.

180
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You've got the kids with their future plans, all of that sort of staff.

181
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It makes their future matter, and it is what brings O'Brien on board, who is the one who has the most to lose.

182
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It's amazing.

183
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You could give it an insidious reading.

184
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Yeah, you're in there going, all right, we've got one last attempt to get them to change their mind.

185
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Let's all go planting.

186
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They'll see us all working together.

187
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Maybe, but that's not consistent with where they originally wanted the episode to go.

188
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We'll get there.

189
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Oh my gosh.

190
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And you know what?

191
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You may think we've blown our load in this sort of pre-credit study episode.

192
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There are so many little character moments I want to talk about as we go through this. genuinely, I can't wait.

193
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And I know I'll say that mocking me quite a lot.

194
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Very often.

195
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Who knew?

196
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We can actually like 90s trek.

197
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Here we are.

198
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Well, yes, I mean, sometimes it's good.

199
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All right.

200
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I think we should go in.

201
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I'm ready.

202
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I'm absolutely ready to watch this for a 3rd time this week.

203
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Excellent.

204
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Oh, can us in?

205
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

206
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It's that shot of the defiant.

207
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Did I use that as often as they use the shot of the Enterprise?

208
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No, they couldn't possibly.

209
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Every episode.

210
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:11.640
We've already determined, anyway.

211
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:15.960
Now, can I just say immediately?

212
00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:19.380
I mean, just a casual banter on this show.

213
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.380
Her just going, oh, I just can't wait to get into my own bed.

214
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.299
I mean, we see the defiant beds at the end of this and they look absolutely miserable, all right?

215
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:34.680
Well, they they look like what the the people sleep in, what the lower deck is sleeping on the Saritas, you know, like, yeah.

216
00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:41.640
Um, so this is where we learn that Shakaar is, it's no longer a Kira Shakaar thing.

217
00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:42.720
They're not on together.

218
00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:45.420
We do rather need to establish this at the start of the episode.

219
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.160
Otherwise, none of this can play out.

220
00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:48.960
No.

221
00:17:49.380 --> 00:18:07.920
And like, I, it's one of these things too, where you have a giant character beat that happens in a weird ass high concept thing, uh, like when we discovered that Neelix and um, and Kes have broken up in warlord, you know, where the episode's not about that at all.

222
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:09.420
We were so relieved.

223
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:10.920
We didn't mind, it was off screen.

224
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.180
No, we didn't.

225
00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:17.819
Or when Worf and Deanna get together in parallels because they're married in an episode.

226
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:25.259
We should have known we were heading for trouble at Odo now brooding in the corridor.

227
00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:29.160
Yeah, and so we've had this before, haven't we?

228
00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:32.759
Like, this has been going on for a while now.

229
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.019
The end of series two.

230
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:35.640
So nearly 3 seasons.

231
00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:44.400
And we, you know, we've had the fabulous episode with the crystal, Kira, the crystal where he confessed his love to her or crossfire.

232
00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:47.579
Do you remember where he was having to protect Shakaar throughout the entire episode?

233
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:50.640
and Cor gave him relationship advice?

234
00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:51.299
wonderful.

235
00:18:53.400 --> 00:19:07.200
So the other thing that we're doing here is we're establishing our Molly. the original Molly O'Brien, and she's got a birthday coming up and he's going to make her a dollhouse and he has plans for her, his future and stuff.

236
00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.539
It's important that we see him talking about her.

237
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:12.779
It is nice that they remember as well.

238
00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:24.299
Like Dax is just interested in something scientific going on, which DSI doesn't do very often, but she's a science officer, so it would catch awry and she would be interested.

239
00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:26.579
Yeah, yeah.

240
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:27.000
Yeah.

241
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:28.319
Yeah, no, it's really good.

242
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.880
It's the important line there.

243
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:33.000
Are you sure it's safe to go through the barrier?

244
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:34.680
Oh, I'm sure it'd be smooth sailing.

245
00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:39.779
She goes, the word smooth sailing, which there's a callback too, as well, a bit later on.

246
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.440
Nobody throws shade like Avery Brooks. smooth sailing.

247
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:46.859
He goes after she's nearly torn the ship apart.

248
00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:51.480
Now, we got our smart fungus line just again.

249
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:54.420
Cisco looks visibly pained at the pump.

250
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:55.319
Yeah, yeah.

251
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.019
It's like, oh, we're not going to have a Star Trek shit this way.

252
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:58.740
That was Voyager.

253
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:00.660
They'd all be laughing their ass off, wouldn't they?

254
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:02.099
Like the end of a Blake 7 episode.

255
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.380
Gosh, you're so witty.

256
00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:19.559
So I think we're getting the smooth sailing line in a second, but we do have this weird thing happening to Kira, and we get a special effect where she kind of, she, yep, there's 2 of her very briefly, but she also gets some plasma thing.

257
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:23.039
Uh, you know, destroying her neurons.

258
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:27.539
We had already established in Deep Space 9, that 2 Kira's is better than one, haven't we?

259
00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:30.059
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

260
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:33.900
Dr. Pershe to the bridge.

261
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.440
She should go like a fucking for share here.

262
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.000
There are 1000s of people on the side.

263
00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:45.539
He would have won a mess all those 100s of bashirs down on the planet, would he?

264
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:48.779
Can you imagine a brood of bashirs?

265
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:54.660
Oh, God. 8000 inhabitants on the planet.

266
00:20:54.779 --> 00:20:55.799
Hang on a minute.

267
00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:57.059
I swear I weren't there a minute ago.

268
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:01.319
Yeah, I wondered about that too, whether they just appeared.

269
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.319
And of course, this makes no sense.

270
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:10.319
Don't think about it too hard because what happened the 1st time they arrived.

271
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:12.180
Oh, I'm not going now, right?

272
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:17.279
You and me, I've been, we've been on these loops before and I just ended up cross-eyed.

273
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:21.359
I do like the callback to, Oh, sorry, I forgot.

274
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:23.819
You're cutting down, aren't you, on Ractaginos?

275
00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:25.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

276
00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.980
That's right.

277
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:26.940
Well, he remembers.

278
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.619
He remembers himself.

279
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.440
Don't you just feel great when you see the stock colony set?

280
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:46.200
So this is a slightly more expansive colony set, I think, than we've seen in things like Ensigns of Command, and it is the usual thing where they are actually quite good at doing sunlight in the studio.

281
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:48.660
We established that in Meridian, didn't we?

282
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:52.440
They get into a point now where they can tell, you can tell the times of day.

283
00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:59.039
There's a wonderful shot later, you know, where Kira's talking to war through like a window and it's almost like candle lit.

284
00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:02.460
And I'm like, yeah, they're really there with these sort of interiors.

285
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:04.140
Oh, I love this.

286
00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:07.200
The way she just explains it all when 2 lines.

287
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.480
We were thrown back in time, 200 years.

288
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:10.799
You'll be stranded here.

289
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:12.779
We are your descendants.

290
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:15.660
You're like, what the fuck?

291
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.359
So, um, she is in Caretaker.

292
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.400
The woman who plays Miranda O'Rye.

293
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:27.000
Oh, she is.

294
00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:28.500
She's one of they are compa, isn't she?

295
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:29.279
She's a nurse.

296
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:34.619
Yeah, she's the camper nurse, but the other people I haven't didn't find them in anything else.

297
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:37.200
Well, Yedrin, the guy who plays Yedrin.

298
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:39.539
No, that's his only star.

299
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:40.559
Wow, he's so good.

300
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:41.339
Yeah.

301
00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:42.720
He's really good.

302
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:44.039
He's really great.

303
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:47.460
And that's a great choice as well.

304
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.119
So you literally give everyone something to do.

305
00:22:51.599 --> 00:23:04.500
So Dax is still here in the form of Yedrin, um, and with all of the guilt from having taken them here and sort of stranded. the immediate thing of O'Brien going, hang on, if you're an O'Brien.

306
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.299
Keiko's not here.

307
00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:08.339
How on earth do you exist?

308
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:10.859
Ensign Tannen bomb from Engineering.

309
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:12.480
What the hell?

310
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.200
Yeah, but like 10 years he's held off for 10 years.

311
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.400
Um, and and sort of naturally, he's dead by now.

312
00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:24.420
Um, you've got wharf with a Klingon.

313
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:26.819
Some by Bluff, some by choice.

314
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which I really liked.

315
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:30.900
I thought that was really great.

316
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:35.880
The aforementioned Bashirs, the horror.

317
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:37.140
All the bashirs.

318
00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:41.039
We don't meet any of them, but we just assume they're all very annoying.

319
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:46.259
Oh, you've even got core as the educational program.

320
00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:49.440
Yes, who's there for contractual reasons.

321
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:50.759
I think that's great though.

322
00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:52.140
Eddie's for great.

323
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:53.460
Are you ready, kids?

324
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:54.000
Okay.

325
00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.039
So you've got 15 millons.

326
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:00.480
Do you know what I thought was lovely as well?

327
00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:04.500
is that obviously this is packed full of our 90s trek.

328
00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:06.599
We're going to learn a load of backstory.

329
00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:12.000
But for once, we want to know, because it's the backstory of our regulars over 200 years.

330
00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:14.339
Well, that's right.

331
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:24.660
It becomes a little bit like, you know, well, I mean, that's what's enjoyable about E squared is finding out who paired up, who did the thing.

332
00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:30.299
There's a moment where Malcolm Reed realises he's got no one because he's a massive loser and he was.

333
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:31.140
No, you're joking.

334
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:34.920
Oh, tell me you found somebody.

335
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.839
No. back when he's back in the normal time.

336
00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:41.279
Yeah, yeah, he discovers.

337
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:42.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

338
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:52.559
Even like the details such as Yedrin saying to Jadzia, oh, you know, you cut your hair because it was so hot, Worf absolutely hated it.

339
00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:56.519
And then they get to have a conversation where Jazier goes, it's just so hard to get on with.

340
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.799
And he goes, no, he's a good man.

341
00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:00.420
I spent a long time with him.

342
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.579
And so that's looking forward as well.

343
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff that they do take up that they don't draw.

344
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:08.700
This is Renee at Chavari.

345
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:11.339
I'm telling you now, he, you could look across DS9.

346
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.839
All of the character episodes that really stick in your mind he has written.

347
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.619
And we look at how he's holding himself to.

348
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.880
Yeah, he's holding his arms, but heads behind his back.

349
00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:26.400
Tell you something that only Curzon would know.

350
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.099
You remember that dancer on Pelos Station?

351
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:30.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

352
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:30.539
Shut up.

353
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:31.200
Shut up.

354
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:31.619
Okay.

355
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:35.339
I don't really want to talk about it.

356
00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:36.599
Oh, great.

357
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:38.640
We have to be convinced as well.

358
00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:45.660
It's really hard to come in and play somebody like Yedrin, who has existing relationships with all of our regulars.

359
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.980
We have to be sold now.

360
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.160
The bit where they hug at the end when Cisco's going off.

361
00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:54.059
I fight really moving and they've only had 3 scenes together.

362
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:57.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

363
00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:57.359
Yeah.

364
00:25:57.420 --> 00:25:58.740
No, I think he's very good.

365
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:00.000
I do think he's great.

366
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.940
Oh, look at all these extras.

367
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:03.480
Bloody hell.

368
00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:05.700
They've got at least 20 people there in that set.

369
00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:11.519
Well, I mean, the set's really expansive. for a change.

370
00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:13.619
You do have like lots of extras.

371
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.779
You do have lots of location stuff.

372
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:22.200
Here we are in the in the schoolroom, which is perhaps not as impressive as it might be, but it's not bad.

373
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:28.500
It's uh, don't they say, this is like the, everyone slept in this room when they 1st crashed.

374
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:30.000
Oh, initially.

375
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:35.519
That was the 1st building that they built and then it just became the centre of the of the village.

376
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:44.220
And I do think that the village, like the township is convincing as well with the little animated windmills, you know, producing power and stuff.

377
00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:45.900
It's not.

378
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:47.160
Lots of lovely dude.

379
00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:49.319
Oh, I love this bitchiness between the 2 kids.

380
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.079
Your spots don't make you special, all right?

381
00:26:52.200 --> 00:27:00.539
It's just genetic And here we get O'Brien's reaction to this kid being called Molly.

382
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:02.099
He's a bold, isn't he?

383
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:02.700
Molly.

384
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:05.339
Well, and but I was a bit as well.

385
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:06.779
I think it's a perfect choice.

386
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:12.599
It's no, there's a proper Molly back on the station and I'm never going to see her again, right?

387
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:16.079
Is that what that's what we're potentially facing here?

388
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:21.180
And so he's hostile to that, Molly, even though it's not her fault and he knows that.

389
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:29.039
But he's standoffish and doesn't want to interact with her until the very end and it's her. really, I think, who convinces him?

390
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:38.039
There's a great scene where everybody's out in the square and they're all getting on with their descendants and talking, O'Brien's just there with a pad and the 2 kids are watching him.

391
00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:39.660
The look he throws them.

392
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.299
He's like, I reject you outright.

393
00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:43.079
All right.

394
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:44.099
Yeah.

395
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:45.420
Which is natural.

396
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:46.740
It's perfectly natural.

397
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:48.779
Yeah.

398
00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:51.720
Yeah, yeah, because I mean, if they left, do you know what I mean?

399
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:54.299
If they just decided to leave, like that's not wrong.

400
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:54.839
Is it?

401
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:55.680
Like, that's not wrong.

402
00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:57.059
They're not doing anything wrong.

403
00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:09.660
But they come to understand that these are just people, they're not a time anomaly or anything like that, and that they, they have to make sacrifices or, or see those people disappear.

404
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:16.440
I like the fact as well that when it is revealed the, yeah, to fake the logs and he was trying to recreate the action.

405
00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:19.079
He's not then the villain of the piece.

406
00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:23.759
He was just a man that was trying to save 8000 people.

407
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:26.940
And how could we possibly say that is a bad thing?

408
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:31.259
No, he doesn't seem to have done the wrong thing.

409
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:44.880
I think, like, he takes their agency away from them or something, but, you know, like if they had come down and were threatening 8000 people with a big gun, he would have been fine to just bash them on the head until they were unconscious and then bury them somewhere.

410
00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:45.720
Do you know what I mean?

411
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:58.019
Like, you know, like, I think that, like, this is the one time paradox, the morality of which I think is really clear and it's a pretty clever premise, I think.

412
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:07.380
When I 1st watched this, I do remember this was the point where I was going, oh, really, they're going to make a quantum duplicate of the defiant as they get out claws.

413
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:13.380
So I was so happy when it turned out that that was absolute bobbins and it couldn't exist at all.

414
00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:16.440
I mean, it's almost the same.

415
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:23.099
It's almost the same graphic that we have explaining the 2 writers, you know, in 2nd chances.

416
00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:26.700
Um, that they're split for space reasons.

417
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:36.599
And we've had, you know, we've had the spare Janeway a couple of times, maybe not a couple of times by this point, but, you know, like a spare ship, you can help yourself to that for space reasons and then go off.

418
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:42.119
He has that really relaxed Dak's nature. doesn't he?

419
00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:42.779
Yeah, Drew.

420
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.539
I like it and he laughs a lot as well.

421
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:46.259
I don't know.

422
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:48.779
I just was really drawn to that character.

423
00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.960
And I was like, do you know what I could have done with a bit mortgage, Ren, actually.

424
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:54.660
Yeah, he's really good, isn't he?

425
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:55.500
He is really good.

426
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:56.640
Okay.

427
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.920
So we're going to try and get this plan going now.

428
00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:05.039
Yeah, I mean, you know, they are still stranding them.

429
00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:06.059
Do you know what I mean?

430
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.059
Like this where he touches, yeah, anything for you, old man.

431
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:12.000
The smile.

432
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.799
Oh, boy.

433
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.119
Yeah, yeah, it's wild.

434
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.279
Oh, is an extraordinarily good in this episode.

435
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:22.980
And you know what, normally, when you put him in these sort of sci-fi episodes, he's a bit adrift, isn't he?

436
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:25.259
line.

437
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:28.380
Apparently the planet is crawling with machines.

438
00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:29.940
Oh, stay here.

439
00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:36.299
Well, then he puts the goo in the box and goes, sweet dreams, Odo.

440
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.980
The breakmaker.

441
00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:41.579
We'll put him on regular 4 for 20 minutes.

442
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:47.160
Look at him flirting with Nana now.

443
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:48.420
Yeah.

444
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:49.140
Look it.

445
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.359
The vein is bulging on his head.

446
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:52.980
He's so turned off by it.

447
00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:58.619
I mean, they have just had a kid, let's be honest. you know. beautiful Django.

448
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:00.779
I know, I know.

449
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.359
Well, look how beautiful his parents are. boy, yeah.

450
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:04.559
Do you know?

451
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:05.579
I mean, I don't know if you've seen them.

452
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:07.799
The relationship didn't work for whatever reason.

453
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.900
They're so close still, a pair of them.

454
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.000
Which is very nice to see.

455
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:12.900
Yeah.

456
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:14.579
Oh, this is great.

457
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:16.559
She goes over to Odo to respect him.

458
00:31:16.619 --> 00:31:20.819
And then, boom, we've got an empty space on the screen, so clearly someone's coming in.

459
00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:25.740
Now, what did you think about the sort of more relaxed makeup?

460
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:31.380
Oh, I just, I mean my god, so much better.

461
00:31:31.619 --> 00:31:32.880
Like so much better.

462
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:37.380
And when you see him again, at the end, he's like, fuck.

463
00:31:37.859 --> 00:31:41.579
We're going to smooth out any attempt of you having a performance, okay?

464
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:42.359
Use your eyes.

465
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:44.700
Yeah.

466
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:50.579
And like he's still got, you know, like a silly forehead and stuff like that in the terrible wig and theory.

467
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.380
The way he starts touching her face.

468
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.960
She's like, what the hell is happening here?

469
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:01.980
She's never, ever conceived of the idea, has she, whilst he's been longing after her?

470
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:03.539
Yeah.

471
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:06.539
Well, he's so contained, isn't he?

472
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:07.920
I mean, he's so content.

473
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:09.059
And that is believable, right?

474
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:15.119
that over 200 years that he would learn to interact with people in a more intimate way.

475
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.779
And it's just so nice to see Renault so relaxed.

476
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.779
Oh, yeah, no, he's so good.

477
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:29.940
I mean, even that shocking episode Oasis where we got to see him out of makeup and we were able to kind of see just how good he is.

478
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:36.119
I mean, the fact that he's he's acting through that fucking slap for, you know, 7 years.

479
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:37.259
Oasis episode.

480
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:38.160
And doing aggressive.

481
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:39.180
So boring, Nathan.

482
00:32:39.299 --> 00:32:43.740
You have to remind me that Renee was in it for me to recall anything about it at all.

483
00:32:44.099 --> 00:32:45.359
It was very boring.

484
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:47.160
But Renee was great in it.

485
00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:48.539
I like as well.

486
00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:52.319
She asked, why didn't you say anything for one?

487
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.660
and we should have said, well, I did, but you was a great crystal at the time and a shapeshifter.

488
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.539
No, no, but she also says, I'm really sorry.

489
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:05.700
I spent all that time going on about all the people I was having relationships with.

490
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:08.400
You must have been really hurt by that.

491
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:12.059
I really love Kira as a character.

492
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:13.079
She's so thoughtful.

493
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:23.099
Yeah, she's saying that now and he's saying, well, look, you know, like I didn't think we could be together, but I wanted to be a supportive friend, you know, like whatever.

494
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.400
And that's why I genuinely think the relationship works.

495
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:27.599
I know some people don't.

496
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:33.000
But I think you can have just a very mature friendship that blossoms into something more.

497
00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:34.259
I buy it.

498
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:35.279
Well, I think they sell it.

499
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:36.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

500
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:40.319
Well, they've got Vic Fontaine and Kira singing Fever.

501
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:42.180
Like, you know, who could resist that?

502
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:47.579
And just now, doesn't he take her hand to walk her out the room?

503
00:33:47.579 --> 00:33:51.180
I love I just love the tenderness between the 2 of them.

504
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:52.559
Mm, mm.

505
00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:56.940
Because now we get this religious thing as well.

506
00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:58.859
So she...

507
00:33:58.859 --> 00:34:00.119
Oh, sorry to interrupt, Nathan.

508
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.019
Oh, this.

509
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:03.119
No, we have to go run the baby.

510
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.359
I mean, he's going...

511
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:07.140
Did you hear?

512
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:08.639
Everything's going to be okay.

513
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:10.260
And the baby's like, woo.

514
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.699
It's so gorgeous.

515
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:18.179
Everything's gonna be all right.

516
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.579
Sounds like you got your hands full, Benjamin.

517
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.400
And then they vote from the cup of the sky.

518
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.000
But that must be Avery improvising, right?

519
00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:28.440
I don't know what the baby's gonna do.

520
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:29.579
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

521
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:30.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

522
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:32.760
No, it's a By all accounts, Nathan.

523
00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:35.639
They didn't like that sort of thing on Star Trek.

524
00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:38.760
They wanted you to be script perfect and no improvisations.

525
00:34:39.059 --> 00:34:39.719
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.320
I don't think people say no to Avery Brooks, so...

527
00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:45.239
No, no.

528
00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:49.320
And I think when there's a baby in there, you just have to let the actor do what they want.

529
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:51.900
Yeah, so this is the scene.

530
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.159
Oh no, is it?

531
00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:55.019
Yeah, I think the Klingons come along in a second.

532
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:55.860
Yeah, they're here.

533
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:56.699
They're here.

534
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

535
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:57.659
Here they are.

536
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.880
I was like, oh, God, what a Klingon.

537
00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:03.000
I was really expecting like the worst. then they came along.

538
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:07.320
You were expecting the kid from real life. something like that, yeah.

539
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.980
And I just like the fact that they're all very underplayed.

540
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:12.539
You know, that was grunting or anything.

541
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:14.340
No.

542
00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:16.739
And I like it too.

543
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:20.219
And you kind of get the sun by blood sun by choice thing.

544
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.599
We live as warriors and you've got wharf liking that.

545
00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:32.460
And Worf doesn't react badly because this little blonde kid wants to be a Klingon too when he grows up and wants to live like that too.

546
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:42.900
And, you know, like the beautiful young woman there who doesn't have any ridges or anything like that, you know, um, But like I just like all...

547
00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:43.440
Bear in mind.

548
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:47.519
It gives him something to do. the season we had let he who is without sin.

549
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.860
So they're still figuring out war for the start of the season.

550
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.639
Then we had that amazing episode that you and I did by Inferno's live.

551
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:55.320
Do you remember when he was fighting the Jemadar?

552
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:57.900
That's where the point where I think they absolutely got him.

553
00:35:58.260 --> 00:36:04.260
And now, I don't think he, Michael Dorney, he doesn't feel the need to sort of show off.

554
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:08.880
He has lots of subtle moments in this episode where he really impresses.

555
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.860
We'll keep talking about that moment between him and Kira when we come to it.

556
00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:20.219
I even like the dreadful line of time is their enemy.

557
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.380
We must help them to defeat it.

558
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:29.519
Well, I kind of, I do kind of, I like that because I, like, what is he supposed to do?

559
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:37.440
Because he's got his own moral dilemma, they don't want to just be winked out of existence and never get to go to Stovercourt.

560
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:42.000
They want a warrior's death and they want him to provide it and maybe he has to do that.

561
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:43.619
Do you know what I mean?

562
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:49.739
And it's part of, uh, like it's part of him coming on board the idea that we should strand ourselves here.

563
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.900
Were we happy together?

564
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.340
He's a good man, Jazzia.

565
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.199
I mean, I like it when it goes.

566
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:57.480
I can still remember Worf saying his vows.

567
00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:58.440
He was shaking.

568
00:37:01.739 --> 00:37:03.179
But it's little details like that.

569
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:07.260
If you're going to do backstory, you need little character details like that.

570
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:09.480
Otherwise, it's just a big ugly tree.

571
00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:11.639
Yeah.

572
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:14.099
Well, there's enough time for all of this to happen.

573
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:14.940
Yeah, this.

574
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:20.820
You've got Julian really excited about his offspring and then O'Brien, who has children already.

575
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.300
He already has children whom he will never see again.

576
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:30.539
The only thing I object to is we're back into sleazebashir territory.

577
00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:31.920
Angie Keleby.

578
00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:35.340
She's gorgeous, you know, like...

579
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:41.460
Oh, I've got a wife and kids back home.

580
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:43.320
I've just got to let you get on your work, all right?

581
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:44.760
I'll go and see some morbish shoes.

582
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:46.139
Yeah, yeah.

583
00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:48.539
I mean, I like this.

584
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:49.980
I mean, I do like it.

585
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:57.420
I think the O'Brien stuff is maybe the best of those of those backstories because he's the one that we have to convince.

586
00:37:57.480 --> 00:37:59.820
It's not backstories. character arcs here.

587
00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:01.440
He's the one that we need to convince.

588
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:02.940
He's the one who wants to move.

589
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:12.659
The strongest voice in that terrific scene where they're all fighting out the point as to whether to go back or not, isn't it?

590
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:17.639
He's the one that's saying, I'm sorry, you have no right to tell me, I can't go back to my wife and kids.

591
00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:24.179
And it's one of those DS9 moments where you've got a problem and there are lots of opposing voices in the scene.

592
00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:25.860
And that's just good drama.

593
00:38:25.860 --> 00:38:31.199
Because, you know, Cisco, say, go, we're not actually considering doing this, but I want to hear what you've got to say.

594
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:33.840
Yeah, and he's not wrong.

595
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:35.280
I mean, he isn't wrong.

596
00:38:35.820 --> 00:39:04.679
This thing, like, do you think that that big giant tree is there for thematic reasons as well, because we're talking about descendants and families, and we're also talking about the way that our life follows lines and branches off and stuff, and she's in this situation where we're about to, there'll be 2 curers, and one will stay here and die, and one will go back to the station, and she thinks that that's violating the way that her life should be, you know linear and singular.

597
00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:12.179
I like to think that Alan Coreka is a thoughtful win-off director for that, to be deliberate, but even if it's accidental, it works.

598
00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:15.480
Yeah, yeah, there's so much plant stuff.

599
00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:21.239
I mean, that whole final scene, which is all about planting, like seeds, you know, planting seeds in the ground.

600
00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:33.360
It's all about the future and that big giant tree, the big ugly tree and that shot. is, you know, all about the past and about timelines ramifying and about, about family trees growing.

601
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:35.159
Just that landscape behind them, right?

602
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:36.059
It's so beautiful.

603
00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:41.460
We're so used to DS9 being set in under lit, dark sets.

604
00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:43.019
It's just so refreshing.

605
00:39:43.139 --> 00:39:48.420
But also, it is also constantly showing you what a wonderful place this is to live.

606
00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:53.880
You know, these people have tamed the land and deserve to be here.

607
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:55.860
Yeah.

608
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:58.440
Mind you, it's fucking windy as here.

609
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.320
No, for me, that's the perfect weather.

610
00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:02.940
Sunny with a bit of wind.

611
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:03.659
That's what I like.

612
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:07.920
It's quite different in England, as you know.

613
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:09.659
Yeah, snow.

614
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:13.500
Oh, these beautiful shots where they're in silhouette walking off together.

615
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:15.780
Mm.

616
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:16.559
Mm.

617
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:23.159
And I like the fact that Kira is willing to explore being intimate with him as well.

618
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:28.199
Not in, like, she does kiss him later, but oh, even Cisco just playing ball.

619
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:30.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

620
00:40:30.539 --> 00:40:39.539
And again, remember what ball was about in the 1st episode, the whole baseball thing was the show. you know, it's time and cause and effect and all sorts of stuff.

621
00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:40.619
But I like this as well.

622
00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:43.860
It goes over with Dak, so she's got to tell him how it's all been faked.

623
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.619
And then he throws the ball one last time, behind his back.

624
00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:48.239
Yeah, behind him.

625
00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:53.760
I think he's saying, how many things can I get past the producers in this one?

626
00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:54.420
Let's see.

627
00:40:56.099 --> 00:40:57.719
But this is so great.

628
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:00.000
Like, this is such a surprise.

629
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:13.860
Because we think we know how this is going right now. just going to be philosophical debate about the 2 defiance and what does that mean and no, the whole thing was a massive lie and now we we have got to make a choice.

630
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:15.659
Yeah.

631
00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:16.199
Yeah.

632
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.199
Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?

633
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:20.760
It's such a surprise.

634
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.780
And like, look at Dax's reaction. to that.

635
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.519
Watch Terry in this next seat.

636
00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:28.619
I mean, I think the dialogue in this next scene.

637
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:31.440
Cisco saying, who are you to say who lives or dies?

638
00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:32.519
Who are you to make that call?

639
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:34.800
It's really good dialogue.

640
00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:38.400
And the fella playing Yedrin is magnificent in this scene.

641
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.159
But Terry, Terry.

642
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:42.659
Yeah, but look at...

643
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:43.920
She's really angry.

644
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:45.480
From the sort of the middle of the scene.

645
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.300
She's absolutely silent and she's extraordinarily good.

646
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:56.159
You think I don't care, Cisco goes, come on, you know me better than that. even though we've just met.

647
00:41:56.699 --> 00:41:57.480
Yeah, yeah.

648
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:01.559
Yeah, yeah.

649
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:04.440
Oh, there's your argument.

650
00:42:05.099 --> 00:42:07.019
Who's to say what's supposed to happen?

651
00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:08.699
What's supposed to happen?

652
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:10.739
You know, there's the correct timeline.

653
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.320
There's the not correct timeline. none of that stuff matters.

654
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:23.519
You don't have a responsibility to keep to stop change, you know, to not change the timeline, because you do it every day, every time you do something, every time you make a choice.

655
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:25.019
Even these details.

656
00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:27.659
I'm not saying it's not going to be hard at first.

657
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:34.920
It is, and Kira will die, but look around you for God's sakes, there is a community of wonderful people here.

658
00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:50.699
Well, and I love that Kira is a religious person is, is willing to do that, willing to lay down. a couple of moments in DSlight, which she makes calls like that. and I like it every single time.

659
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:57.960
Now, look, he goes right after Jazir and goes, you know, you know you should have been more careful going through that barrier.

660
00:42:58.139 --> 00:43:00.539
You know you're responsible for all of this.

661
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.239
And I carried that guilt for 200 years.

662
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:06.659
So, yeah, great.

663
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:07.320
Yeah, yeah.

664
00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:11.159
She's really cross though, isn't she?

665
00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:12.840
She's so and cross with herself.

666
00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:15.360
This is so cross with herself rather than Yedrin.

667
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.699
But, I mean, Yedrin isn't doing the wrong thing.

668
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:20.460
He's not obviously doing the wrong thing, like lying.

669
00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:22.619
Yeah.

670
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:25.559
I mean, he's putting his weight in this scene.

671
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:31.380
I mean, this is his one and only Star Trek episode, you know, he could be totally out of his death.

672
00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:33.599
We've seen it a lot, you know, with guest actors.

673
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.239
Imagine if we had that kid from the outrageous O'Connor playing this role.

674
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:40.559
You know?

675
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:43.019
That's right.

676
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:43.800
That's right.

677
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:45.179
No, he's properly good.

678
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:46.619
I think he's really, really good.

679
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:50.519
And I think having, you know, like having him be the existing Dax.

680
00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:52.440
I mean, that was part of a thing, isn't it?

681
00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:59.519
That, you know, this beautiful young woman who's our science officer also happens to be his mentor.

682
00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:15.000
Now this character is in the same situation, so they have this pre-existing relationship, and you've got our, you know, one of our characters, our Dax, who has already tried to make this decision on our behalf.

683
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:16.079
Do you know what I mean?

684
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:19.260
Like, has tried to take that decision away from everyone else.

685
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:23.699
But is kind of right in some sense to do that.

686
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.599
All the best dilemmas in Star Trek are.

687
00:44:27.659 --> 00:44:33.599
And I think Kurtisman Trek excels at this, but every now and again, 90s Trek hits it bang on the now, like here.

688
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:35.880
Both sides of the argument.

689
00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:36.480
Oh, right.

690
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:39.059
They have every right to go home and be with their families.

691
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:40.440
He gets to go and see Jake.

692
00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:40.980
Absolutely.

693
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:42.659
They have right to exist.

694
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:44.280
So what the hell?

695
00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:44.699
do you do?

696
00:44:46.139 --> 00:44:48.719
Yeah, and I think that the decision that they make is the right one.

697
00:44:49.320 --> 00:45:03.420
You know, like if, if they, if, you know, they wanted to take off and go home, but the defiance, um, Warp Core was going to poison the whole planet and kill everyone.

698
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:04.679
Obviously they can't go.

699
00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:05.639
Do you know what I mean?

700
00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:06.300
They can't go.

701
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:07.920
How is this any different?

702
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:18.119
Well, and they put in what we do often get in these episodes, which is some dreadful techno babble get out claws, and then that turns out to be absolute bullshit.

703
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:18.840
Yeah.

704
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:20.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

705
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:22.199
So we're just left with the decision.

706
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:25.079
Ah, it's really good.

707
00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:27.360
Like, do you remember Tubix?

708
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:28.619
you know, like, yeah, absolutely.

709
00:45:28.619 --> 00:45:32.880
Tubix has a right to exist and Chevac and Neelix have a right to live their lives.

710
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:35.880
But at the end of that episode, it's Janeway committing murder.

711
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:38.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

712
00:45:38.099 --> 00:45:39.480
And I don't know that I like that.

713
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.760
I mean, it's unforgettable, but, well, and that's why it works, I think.

714
00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:46.679
But yes, it does seem wrong.

715
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:59.039
And certainly when, um, when Miglimo or whatever, it's a Dr. Tahana and Mick Lamar, I can't remember, in 2 vics on lower decks, when they discover what Janeway did, they're horrified.

716
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.619
I'm glad people are still talking about it.

717
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:02.880
No one can believe it.

718
00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:05.460
And she's an admiral, you say?

719
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:06.539
Oh my god.

720
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.599
She murdered anyone this week.

721
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:11.159
Oh, one or two.

722
00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:14.760
I mean, the fact that that does that happen again then?

723
00:46:14.820 --> 00:46:16.500
Is there a 2nd transporter accident?

724
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, on board Voyager.

725
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:19.260
Yeah.

726
00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:29.820
Yeah, because it's the, you know, well, it's lower decks, but its voyage is like a museum and the orchid is there, you know, like the whole thing.

727
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:36.780
To have one hybrid transporter Raxton could be considered a misfortune dot, dot, dot.

728
00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:39.599
Well, you know, every 30 years.

729
00:46:39.659 --> 00:46:40.739
I think you can probably have one.

730
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.119
Oh, this is something.

731
00:46:42.179 --> 00:46:44.159
I can see the Klingon heartbeat strong here.

732
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:45.900
He's so kind to them.

733
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:48.179
Well, that's right.

734
00:46:48.239 --> 00:47:00.239
And I think we've seen situations in the past where he's kind of gate kept who's allowed to be a Klingon and who's allowed not to be a Klingon, maybe in birthright part two, which I can barely remember, but it's possibly what's going on there.

735
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:06.960
But here he just accepts them because they've, you know, they've accepted this thing that he values.

736
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:08.880
This is so good.

737
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:17.880
Very often it was the other way round that I objected to was when he tried to behave like a Klingon and Picard and people like that would be like, no, you know, you can't behave like that on this ship.

738
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:18.659
How dare you?

739
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:19.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

740
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:22.019
Yeah.

741
00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:23.579
Yeah, because that's right.

742
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:27.239
This kid, this, um, the, is it Brotar?

743
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:29.940
I can't remember what that character's called.

744
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:38.219
But he nearly died. in a hunting incident, and now he wishes he had died.

745
00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:40.980
Like, I think this is really...

746
00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:43.739
There is so much happening in this episode, right?

747
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:52.440
This scene where they're basically saying, kill us, Worf, because we will just cease to exist rather than going out in glorious death.

748
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.260
That is a whole premise of an episode elsewhere.

749
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:58.619
Sons of Mogue, when Kern asks Wolf to kill him.

750
00:47:58.739 --> 00:48:01.619
Here, it's just a throwaway scene because there's so much else going on.

751
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.880
But I mean, no one's wasted here.

752
00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:18.179
Everyone on board the Defiant has some interaction with the people here that helps them come to the decision that they will strand themselves here so that those people can.

753
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:21.239
This is one of the most beautifully shot DS9 scenes.

754
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:24.420
I mean, that afternoon sunshine.

755
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:29.039
And of course, Nanar looking absolutely stunning.

756
00:48:30.539 --> 00:48:31.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

757
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:32.699
It's really good.

758
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.619
But also, like Renee getting to have a facial expression.

759
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:42.059
You wouldn't think it would be a big ask, would you're in television?

760
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:43.139
but here we are.

761
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.380
You are right though. making that decision.

762
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:48.179
Yeah, look, this is where I'm supposed to die.

763
00:48:48.659 --> 00:48:54.059
That's, that's how I've lived my life with, I have one fate, not two.

764
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:55.980
Yeah.

765
00:48:56.460 --> 00:48:56.880
Yeah.

766
00:48:58.739 --> 00:49:00.179
Yeah, I mean, and...

767
00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:02.940
But what can we do?

768
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:03.840
Do you know what I mean?

769
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:04.800
Like, what can we do?

770
00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:07.139
That's, that's, and then I'm gonna die.

771
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:11.940
But even him saying, I don't know those people, that doesn't matter, does it?

772
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:12.840
that doesn't matter.

773
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:13.800
Well, he realises it.

774
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:15.059
That doesn't matter.

775
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:16.800
No, that's right.

776
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:18.179
At this point, yeah.

777
00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:20.760
I mean, no, I mean, God, I'd want to come home to Mark.

778
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:24.539
Of course I would, you know, but like if I spent enough time with those people.

779
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:25.320
Jesus.

780
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.659
I love Wolf saying, yeah, do you know what?

781
00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:29.820
You're afraid to face your destiny.

782
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.619
Brian goes, well, that's all right for you.

783
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:32.760
You hardly ever see your son.

784
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.000
So they do get a bit narky, you know?

785
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:37.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

786
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:45.780
But I mean, wharf saying no, like we doing the wrong thing by these people, by these young people that he was speaking to in the previous scene.

787
00:49:46.380 --> 00:49:47.579
I'm pleased as well.

788
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.400
It doesn't agonise over Cisco and Jake.

789
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:57.239
There's one mention where he goes, I know, I couldn't live with the fact that you'd never get to see Jake again from Yedrin.

790
00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:58.260
And that's enough.

791
00:49:58.380 --> 00:49:59.519
It's enough.

792
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.440
And we're going to have that later.

793
00:50:01.860 --> 00:50:05.400
And they probably have worked that out by now.

794
00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:06.719
Do you think?

795
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:09.239
Like, this is very near the end of series five.

796
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:17.519
I like the fact that Kira thinks because she's made the decision that that's the decision, right?

797
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.159
Because when Cisco goes, no, we're not considering this.

798
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:23.760
And she goes, captain, you know, like, I'm saying I'm happy to die here.

799
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:28.320
Did you see those windmills in the background there?

800
00:50:28.380 --> 00:50:30.599
God, are they ugly on the on the horizon?

801
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:33.960
Ruining the landscape.

802
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:41.340
Yes, why can't we have an old-fashioned coal fire plant belching particulates in the air?

803
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:42.900
useful, those windmills, you know.

804
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:47.219
Especially when they're insane, lovely. yeah incredible.

805
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.099
Oh my god, we're heading into the Waltons now, the planting scene.

806
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:52.199
Yeah.

807
00:50:52.619 --> 00:50:55.559
But look at, look, that's a decent size set, isn't it?

808
00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:57.480
That's like, there's some depth to that.

809
00:50:57.539 --> 00:50:59.940
That's that's not minuscule.

810
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:02.400
But just this, there's not much time.

811
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:05.639
We are going to plant things because.

812
00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:08.340
We don't have a future.

813
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:11.820
You know, we will not exist by the time the sunsets.

814
00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:19.739
But let's spend our, like, how do you spend your last day?

815
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.059
you know, how do you spend your last day?

816
00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:23.579
Following the field. as a community.

817
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:25.619
Yeah, doing what you would have done anymore.

818
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:31.860
And let's just go getting his hands dirty and everyone's joining in, except O'Brien at this point, but he's soon told off.

819
00:51:32.460 --> 00:51:35.219
Oh, I love this old deer planting the flat.

820
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.440
She's so happy putting her tree in.

821
00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:47.940
I'm just so convinced this is a community though. and it's Star Trek rarely does this for me when we go and visit communities of the way, yeah.

822
00:51:48.480 --> 00:52:06.659
All, no, that's right, but just this, just the physicality of planting things in the ground, like having them do a thing rather than just talk about doing it, and seeing all those plants, all of that stuff, it shouldn't be remarkable, but, but it is, you know, just because of the way this show's made.

823
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:09.420
Yeah, he's not participating, is he?

824
00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:10.079
He's got a...

825
00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:11.340
You got to help, says Molly.

826
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:12.780
You don't look busy to me.

827
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.860
He goes, she's an O'Brien, all right.

828
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:17.699
Is he?

829
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:19.860
You better get...

830
00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:20.699
And then he's laughing.

831
00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:23.400
Cisco, when he walks away from him, giving him the trowel.

832
00:52:23.579 --> 00:52:24.300
Yeah, yeah.

833
00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:26.460
Good. doing that bit.

834
00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:31.559
Oh, and here comes Warf and the Klingons.

835
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.519
Yeah, but he smiles, doesn't he?

836
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:39.119
smiles at Molly and he's been rejecting her.

837
00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:42.179
Because it's not the proper Molly.

838
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:45.059
It's so well shot this, isn't it?

839
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:46.199
Everyone's reactions.

840
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:48.300
There's loads of reaction shots.

841
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:51.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:53.519
To just help to sell the, that's a try.

843
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:58.559
This is as triumphant as that moment when the Klingon fleet appears in sacrifice of angels.

844
00:52:58.619 --> 00:53:00.420
But in a very different way.

845
00:53:02.820 --> 00:53:04.199
Yeah, and 0 my god.

846
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:05.400
I'm so pleased.

847
00:53:05.460 --> 00:53:08.159
I mean, it's such a mixed race colony as well.

848
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:10.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

849
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:11.219
That's right.

850
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:18.599
And that's what's good too, is that the Klingons aren't outsiders or they're not out enemy, but they're just people who've chosen to live their lives another way.

851
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:21.599
This isn't the masterpiece society or something like that.

852
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:28.440
This is a place where people live in freedom and have some chance to determine what their life is going to be like.

853
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:30.480
They live well.

854
00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:33.059
And this, I have a little girl called Molly too.

855
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:34.619
Can I get to meet her?

856
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:35.699
He goes, we'll see.

857
00:53:36.179 --> 00:53:38.340
Yeah, we'll see.

858
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.239
And that by some of this plant will be taller than you.

859
00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:45.300
And so she's talking about the future.

860
00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:49.920
It just, it sparks something in him, doesn't it?

861
00:53:50.460 --> 00:53:52.260
Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?

862
00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:54.599
And look, because Colm is so good.

863
00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:58.320
I mean, you know, we don't talk quite enough about how it is.

864
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.360
It's because it's for him, isn't it?

865
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:02.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

866
00:54:02.820 --> 00:54:03.840
It's a shame.

867
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:07.679
And then he just comes up and says, yes, we have to, we can't, we can't go.

868
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.500
I just can't get enough of seeing Nanara in the sun.

869
00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:14.039
Yeah, radiant, she is.

870
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:16.500
Oh, and then the kids play.

871
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.360
Oh, it's just so beautiful that scene.

872
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:19.860
So, so stunning.

873
00:54:21.659 --> 00:54:22.079
Yeah.

874
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.800
Why aren't all my concepts episodes as good as space?

875
00:54:25.860 --> 00:54:26.519
Yeah, I know.

876
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:27.539
Why aren't they as good?

877
00:54:27.539 --> 00:54:29.039
Why are they not aiming before?

878
00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:31.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

879
00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:32.519
Yeah.

880
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:33.719
Think about Meridian.

881
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:37.739
They're like, no, sorry, we're not going out on location again till time's orphan now.

882
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:38.400
Sorry.

883
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:41.579
Oh, and this.

884
00:54:41.579 --> 00:54:43.860
Cisco doesn't say a word.

885
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:45.900
He holds Molly...

886
00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:47.400
Is it Molly?

887
00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:48.360
Miranda's hand.

888
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:50.159
And then hugs Yedrin.

889
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:52.800
And it's all just done with the music and the reactions.

890
00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:57.179
Oh, she's beautiful though, isn't she?

891
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:01.079
Miranda's, that expression that we go out on her kind of being stricken.

892
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:02.820
Ah, my.

893
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:14.099
Like DS9 can make me feel in a way that modern TV makes me feel, but this is an extraordinarily good episode for the feels.

894
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:15.000
It's really good.

895
00:55:15.659 --> 00:55:16.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

896
00:55:17.099 --> 00:55:19.139
And we still haven't got to the big shock yet.

897
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:21.179
No.

898
00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:25.559
Oh, I did think the framing of this scene was very interesting.

899
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:31.860
You know, when they give the kiss and they sort of pull away from each other and the cameras, so they're sort of mirrored in the in the corridor.

900
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:36.900
Oh, gosh, look at him with his normal face.

901
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:44.280
He hasn't quite got the eye wrinkles right, but like it, it's such, so much better choice.

902
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:47.039
Why didn't they just go, I've learnt this from the other Odo?

903
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:48.239
I can look like this now.

904
00:55:48.659 --> 00:55:50.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

905
00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:51.719
I love...

906
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:53.579
The fact that she's willing to give him a kiss as well.

907
00:55:54.900 --> 00:56:00.719
Like, yeah, although I do think that that's, I do think that that's Nana being pulling away.

908
00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:05.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just being a little bit tentative around the makeup, I think.

909
00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:12.179
Well, not a bad idea given the result in his way, but she ended up with that eggy rubber all around her mouth.

910
00:56:13.500 --> 00:56:15.000
But that was a hell of a kiss.

911
00:56:15.059 --> 00:56:17.400
I mean, I wouldn't swap that his way kiss for anything.

912
00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:19.860
No, no, fantastic.

913
00:56:21.420 --> 00:56:22.500
And do you know what?

914
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:23.760
Don't laugh at me.

915
00:56:23.820 --> 00:56:26.340
I actually thought the music was great in this scene.

916
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:34.199
As they approach it and it's building and building and getting louder, and I just remember being a kid going, what the hell's going to happen?

917
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:36.119
I have no idea. can this happen?

918
00:56:36.900 --> 00:56:38.579
So do you know what the original thing was?

919
00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:39.300
Tell me.

920
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:42.059
It was Yedrin.

921
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:44.880
Oh.

922
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:46.380
Yeah.

923
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:46.920
Why?

924
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.619
He just couldn't go through with this.

925
00:56:51.000 --> 00:57:13.440
He, he, he had lied to them and tried to trick them into doing it and because he'd been shamed by Dax and because he couldn't ask them to give up their lives, you know, he, he couldn't ask them to do this for him to never see their home again, to strand themselves here. think I prefer what they go with.

926
00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:20.280
I think it is better, but you can see that it heads in that direction and that it was.

927
00:57:20.460 --> 00:57:23.880
Well, they say it. well, if it's yeah, true. because it's Dax.

928
00:57:24.300 --> 00:57:25.019
You know what I mean?

929
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:25.679
It's Dax.

930
00:57:25.739 --> 00:57:29.760
It's a Dax, does it rather than Odo does it, but one of our characters does.

931
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:33.719
Do you remember they're posing it in the corridor and they go, Yedrin, do you think?

932
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:35.159
Yeah, Drin.

933
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:35.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

934
00:57:36.059 --> 00:57:38.340
But like that was the original idea.

935
00:57:38.579 --> 00:57:40.199
And then they go...

936
00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:40.800
It wasn't me.

937
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.559
But it's such a shock, isn't it?

938
00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:55.500
Because, like, you see the them heading towards the bruised thing anomaly thing, and then they just don't hit it, and you kind of go, wait, what's happened then?

939
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:57.539
So are those people all gone?

940
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:08.639
I think the biggest shock for me is the loss I feel of characters that I've only known for 40 minutes and how effectively I've been sold that.

941
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.519
So I just feel like, no, this is wrong.

942
00:58:12.059 --> 00:58:13.800
Those people deserve to exist.

943
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:15.780
Yeah, yeah.

944
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:18.300
So someone who's a member of the crew.

945
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:23.400
And so Yedron is who they guess at, and that makes sense.

946
00:58:23.460 --> 00:58:24.659
What would have changed his mind?

947
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:26.039
Do you think Kira Terrelson?

948
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:29.460
It was like, no, actually, it was Odo, or just lets them keep guessing.

949
00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:33.239
Yeah, so I think that I buy that.

950
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:34.440
I buy that ending.

951
00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:36.239
He couldn't let us go through with it.

952
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:40.019
He couldn't let us strand ourselves here.

953
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:44.159
And yeah, they never existed.

954
00:58:44.219 --> 00:58:44.940
They did exist.

955
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.159
We'll always remember the other thing.

956
00:58:47.340 --> 00:58:50.940
Yeah, that marvellous afternoon planting the siege. you remember?

957
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:52.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

958
00:58:52.500 --> 00:58:53.039
That's right.

959
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:54.300
Yeah, I'm sorry.

960
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:55.079
Look at that bed.

961
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:57.719
As if I'll try isn't more miserable enough.

962
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:01.079
Well, she should take her boots off though.

963
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:15.659
Do like that they give us an actual definitive answer that the answer makes sense and you can take it back to that scene a minute ago where she said, yeah, maybe we would have had a chance.

964
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:16.440
There's a motive.

965
00:59:18.179 --> 00:59:18.599
Yeah.

966
00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:19.199
Yeah.

967
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:21.059
But it's also mental.

968
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:22.559
Do you know what I mean?

969
00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:28.860
Like he's a nutcase and like he's prepared to let all of these people die in order.

970
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:33.119
You know, that's like, that's terrifying.

971
00:59:33.179 --> 00:59:34.260
That's run a mile.

972
00:59:34.860 --> 00:59:37.260
But if it had been, it's not...

973
00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:42.179
Yeah, to redact, so not, we're having the same thoughts about Dax, then, of like, well, she's prepared to...

974
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:44.699
No, because Yedrin, like Yedrin Dax.

975
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:45.599
It's not quite the same thing.

976
00:59:45.659 --> 00:59:57.360
It's kind of like he's been in love with her for 200 years and has thought about nothing other than her and when it comes to choice between her dying and 8000 people whom he's lived with for 200 years dying.

977
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:00.420
He has no qualms making the decision.

978
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:03.420
You know, like, that's creepy, weird stuff.

979
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:04.619
And with Yedrin.

980
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:06.659
I think it's that he caused this thing.

981
01:00:07.260 --> 01:00:09.179
He can't do this to them again.

982
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:18.539
And it's still the wrong decision, but you, it seems just a little bit less serial. great gut punish though, isn't it?

983
01:00:18.659 --> 01:00:23.400
Because we're left then thinking, well, what possible future can this pair have?

984
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:25.320
No, that's right.

985
01:00:25.380 --> 01:00:25.980
That's right.

986
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:27.300
And they don't follow it up.

987
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:28.500
They don't follow.

988
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:29.880
Well, maybe they talked about it in the closet.

989
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:32.099
You know, we weren't privy to those conversations.

990
01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:33.119
That was one of the things.

991
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:35.460
Yeah, the closet.

992
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:44.460
But like, he tells her this now, and that's what we go out on, is just her absolute horror.

993
01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:48.059
She just goes, what Odo does.

994
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:51.119
Look at, look at her.

995
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:54.719
But it's Odo, you did that.

996
01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:56.880
That makes it right.

997
01:00:57.840 --> 01:00:59.760
Oh, she's living.

998
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:01.320
That makes it much worse.

999
01:01:03.179 --> 01:01:06.119
If you think you're getting a date now, you are wrong.

1000
01:01:08.219 --> 01:01:11.219
I don't care how many Sinatra songs you sing to me.

1001
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:15.300
But that is actually a great ending.

1002
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:16.860
Had it not gone anywhere.

1003
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:26.099
Had the relationship, that he finally reveals the relationship, but then it's kind of wrecked by what old Odo does.

1004
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:28.019
Look at the shot that we go out on.

1005
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:29.940
You know, it's pretty amazing.

1006
01:01:30.300 --> 01:01:38.940
There are six, 60 Space 9 episodes that end on stunning Kera and Odo scenes, right?

1007
01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:40.500
Oh, okay.

1008
01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:42.719
Unfortunately for you, I am going to detail them all.

1009
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:53.340
Necessary evil, which is that amazing bit where Odo realises that Kira murdered somebody and wasn't honest about it.

1010
01:01:53.400 --> 01:02:05.219
And then you have the inverse of that, which is Things Past, where Kira realises that Odo didn't adequately investigate the 3 Bajorans that were killed by the Cardassians.

1011
01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:07.440
So it's a deliberate mirror room there.

1012
01:02:07.860 --> 01:02:18.179
You've got the astonishing scene at the end of Chimaera where Kira comes in and says, I want to know you, show me who you are, and he turns into the beautiful light around him.

1013
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.679
Um, Obviously, this, this is number, this is number four.

1014
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:39.719
You've got the incredible scene at the end of behind the lines where Odo has been seduced by the female shapeshifter and Kira goes to his quarters and smacks the door so hard she nearly takes it off and she basically says we're done.

1015
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:45.000
The 2 of us, like, you made your choice, Rom's in prison, and the dominion they're going to take over.

1016
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:49.199
And there's also a wonderfully, we've already done it.

1017
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:58.619
Treachery faith from the Great River where he comes to the realisation that whatever happens in this war, I'm going to lose and it's her that he shares that.

1018
01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:05.340
It's just a guaranteed winner to end on an emotional beat with Nanar and Renee, I think.

1019
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:06.900
Yeah.

1020
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:16.860
And particularly since Renee hasn't been here for any of this and hasn't experienced it, has never seen the other, you know, other Odo.

1021
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:34.440
And so it's that strange sort of thing where Kira understands the emotional weight of what's happened, but he doesn't, and that's kind of their dynamic anyway, is she has a clearer idea of feelings and how she feels about things, and he's awkward around all of that sort of stuff.

1022
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:40.860
And so he doesn't quite understand her reaction, I think, and that sells it really well.

1023
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:45.000
But it could have been like if they decided not to take the relationship any further.

1024
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:55.260
It's another one of those little outs, I think, you know, like in Muse, where it looked like they were going to take him in another direction with Loxana and that ends up not going there.

1025
01:03:55.619 --> 01:03:57.300
This is another road not taken.

1026
01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:04.440
We could have just ended the relationship there and it would have actually been a pretty brutal and thrilling ending, I think.

1027
01:04:04.739 --> 01:04:07.739
I'm glad that we go on, you know, like I'm glad we don't.

1028
01:04:07.860 --> 01:04:09.900
You wouldn't need the conversations after this.

1029
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:13.380
Like, that's an impactful enough that you'd be like, okay, fine.

1030
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:13.980
Oh, yeah.

1031
01:04:13.980 --> 01:04:15.300
The line's drawn, you know?

1032
01:04:15.900 --> 01:04:16.860
You're a nutcase.

1033
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.579
I do like to think that they did discuss this for at least an hour in the closet, though.

1034
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:21.000
All right.

1035
01:04:21.059 --> 01:04:22.559
Remember the time we was on that planet?

1036
01:04:22.679 --> 01:04:24.360
you know, with our descendants. yeah.

1037
01:04:25.019 --> 01:04:32.159
You know, if you try pulling any of that shit now, 200 years, we are through.

1038
01:04:32.940 --> 01:04:34.139
I think they probably knew.

1039
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:49.440
We've got good scripts here, and, you know, we're going to give it to a good director, and our characters are in a good place, that when this episode was put together, and they saw the creative sat back and watched it, that they were over the moon with how this one turned out.

1040
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:52.260
And it's so not DS9.

1041
01:04:52.739 --> 01:05:06.000
I mean, it is in the in that it's character first, but we just don't very often do in the last 3 years, these sort of wacky high concept premises of the week, and it fucking aces it.

1042
01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:08.219
No, well, that's what I said.

1043
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:25.860
This is the last episode to feature the Gamma Quadrant. you know, before things like Meridian and the storyteller and the things where we go off world and encounter a space thing were where we thought the show was going to go and it's not where the show ends up going at all, but this one last one of these is so good.

1044
01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:29.519
You know, like they actually nail it.

1045
01:05:29.579 --> 01:05:40.019
This is a Star Trek, the next generation premise, or an enterprise premise, and Deep Say Snight comes in and just does it miles better than either of those 2 shows would have.

1046
01:05:41.099 --> 01:05:46.860
Most of the sort of high concept episodes in 6 and 7 because we're nearly at 6 at this point.

1047
01:05:47.219 --> 01:05:48.119
They're comedies, right?

1048
01:05:48.179 --> 01:05:49.260
It's better being better bang.

1049
01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:53.099
Take me out to the hall of sweet, the magnificent Ferengi, profit and lace.

1050
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:56.460
You know, they are, it's sort of the funny episodes of the week.

1051
01:05:56.519 --> 01:06:04.559
So I'm pleased if this is sort of, I mean, one little ship is a TNG mad high concept brand, but it is a Dominion War episode as well.

1052
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:07.320
So we're sort of in a different place.

1053
01:06:07.380 --> 01:06:07.619
Yeah.

1054
01:06:07.679 --> 01:06:09.960
This, like you said, there's no dominion.

1055
01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:12.119
There's no Deep Space 9.

1056
01:06:12.300 --> 01:06:14.880
You know, all the regulars are on a starship in this.

1057
01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:17.219
You could transfer this to any other show.

1058
01:06:18.059 --> 01:06:19.619
It would just be really shit.

1059
01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:20.880
That's all.

1060
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:33.659
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next.

1061
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:39.960
This was your choice, Joe. An excellent episode, and so it's time for me to ruin everything.

1062
01:06:41.099 --> 01:06:52.980
I can't possibly so soon do another episode of Enterprise, but we are going to do the single most neglected 90s Star Trek series.

1063
01:06:53.219 --> 01:06:55.139
Can't be Next Generation still.

1064
01:06:56.039 --> 01:06:57.239
No, it's Voyager.

1065
01:06:57.360 --> 01:06:58.079
Oh, wow.

1066
01:06:58.139 --> 01:06:59.699
Although, can I correct you, please?

1067
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:04.199
I mean, I think technically this was your excellent choice of what we've just done.

1068
01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:06.719
Remember, I was hovering all the time.

1069
01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:13.139
I put a stop to you changing thing. sound creative choices you make on this thing.

1070
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:16.619
Although that's shit to be determined.

1071
01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:18.059
That's right.

1072
01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:20.400
We are about to choose a Voyager episode.

1073
01:07:20.460 --> 01:07:21.119
All right.

1074
01:07:21.900 --> 01:07:23.940
So here goes...

1075
01:07:26.159 --> 01:07:28.079
Manoeuvres, which we've done already.

1076
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:29.699
Episode 140.

1077
01:07:30.059 --> 01:07:31.500
Oh, you remember what that one was?

1078
01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:32.820
Hello, Chakotay.

1079
01:07:33.179 --> 01:07:34.320
I've got your baby here.

1080
01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:36.239
That's good.

1081
01:07:36.780 --> 01:07:38.280
Season two, episode 11.

1082
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.360
All right.

1083
01:07:39.420 --> 01:07:40.500
Let's try another one.

1084
01:07:43.739 --> 01:07:44.940
I don't know what this one is.

1085
01:07:45.179 --> 01:07:45.840
What's it called?

1086
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:46.739
Random Star Trek.

1087
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:49.320
Voyager episode is season five, episode eight.

1088
01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:50.639
Nothing human.

1089
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:52.380
Oh, tedious.

1090
01:07:52.619 --> 01:07:53.760
Absolutely tedious.

1091
01:07:53.940 --> 01:08:02.039
It's one of these sort of moral medicine episodes, you know, where the doctor's got to do some kind of a transfusion.

1092
01:08:02.099 --> 01:08:03.119
It's very boring.

1093
01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:05.340
Okay, let's not do that.

1094
01:08:07.380 --> 01:08:09.179
Oh, it could be this one.

1095
01:08:10.139 --> 01:08:11.760
It could be in either direction.

1096
01:08:11.940 --> 01:08:12.900
Call A-wise.

1097
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:19.680
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season five, episode five, once upon a time.

1098
01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:21.300
Oh no.

1099
01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:34.920
This is so bad this episode that even my much favoured listening experience, Trek ranks who love all the Star Trek. hate this one.

1100
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:39.659
So with no shadow of a doubt, you are going to love it.

1101
01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:41.699
I think I might.

1102
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:50.760
So you do know that the 2nd most recent episode of Star Trek Strange New Worlds is called Once La Arn a Time.

1103
01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:56.100
Um, and it's the sequel to the Elysian Kingdom, which we've already done.

1104
01:08:57.119 --> 01:09:02.159
And I think we both know people remember this. more fun than once upon a time or whatever the score.

1105
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:20.100
Like, I mean, if we do do this, yeah, which I think maybe we should, because we can do comparisons to the TNG episode with Laxana, where they go into the holodeck and meet loads of wacky characters, maybe we could watch that one as well alongside it and see how they compare.

1106
01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:33.359
But also, I'd like to tell you that season five, episode 5 of D Space 9 is that truly incredible episode where Rosalind Chow gets to camp it up as the evil par Rafe, all right?

1107
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:35.340
So...

1108
01:09:35.340 --> 01:09:37.439
This is Andy Wildman, and...

1109
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:38.880
Oh, and Trebus, right?

1110
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:39.960
Boy, 0 boy.

1111
01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:41.220
Let's give us that.

1112
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:44.880
We've we've done quite a bit of crap Star Trek lately.

1113
01:09:44.939 --> 01:09:46.199
Let's...

1114
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:47.640
We could rub it for a while.

1115
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:48.720
We could.

1116
01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:56.699
Okay, your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season two, episode 22, Innocent.

1117
01:09:57.960 --> 01:09:59.520
Oh, no, Ghastly.

1118
01:09:59.579 --> 01:10:02.819
That's the one with Chewpac and those 3 moppets down on the planet.

1119
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:04.020
Do you remember?

1120
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:07.500
A dreadful forest, say it.

1121
01:10:07.619 --> 01:10:15.479
And they're all whining at him for the whole episode and then the twist is, well, I won't tell you the twist because you'll remember when you watch it.

1122
01:10:16.140 --> 01:10:18.960
Yeah, ageing in the wrong direction.

1123
01:10:19.619 --> 01:10:21.539
They get younger rather than older.

1124
01:10:21.779 --> 01:10:24.479
But it's just like Tuvok babysitting for an episode.

1125
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:26.100
Please press it again.

1126
01:10:26.220 --> 01:10:27.119
Don't make me watch that.

1127
01:10:27.180 --> 01:10:27.779
Let's not do that.

1128
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:30.600
Alice.

1129
01:10:31.500 --> 01:10:32.699
Season six, episode five.

1130
01:10:33.239 --> 01:10:35.340
Well, he was hit and miss forager, wasn't it?

1131
01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:36.180
Yeah, it was.

1132
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:37.920
They said John Fleck in it, though.

1133
01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:39.539
Okay.

1134
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:43.500
Ah, okay.

1135
01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:49.560
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season two, episode 2 initiations.

1136
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:52.079
Initiations?

1137
01:10:52.140 --> 01:10:53.159
What the hell's that about?

1138
01:10:53.220 --> 01:10:55.140
Is that the one with Aaron Eisenberg in it?

1139
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:59.100
Yes, yeah, it's the one with him as a young Kazon.

1140
01:10:59.340 --> 01:11:01.500
Now, I don't object to doing that at all.

1141
01:11:02.279 --> 01:11:06.479
And I realise we've been pressing the button for a little while, but we have done a lot of too.

1142
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:07.739
Yeah.

1143
01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:08.340
Yeah.

1144
01:11:08.699 --> 01:11:09.119
Yeah.

1145
01:11:09.180 --> 01:11:09.539
All right.

1146
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:10.079
All right.

1147
01:11:10.140 --> 01:11:10.680
Well, do another one.

1148
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:11.939
Whatever this one is.

1149
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:12.899
I'm not embarrassed yet.

1150
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:14.699
Whatever this works. might be really terrible.

1151
01:11:16.979 --> 01:11:17.939
Oh, okay.

1152
01:11:18.539 --> 01:11:20.819
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode.

1153
01:11:20.939 --> 01:11:24.479
It's season six, episode 13, virtuoso.

1154
01:11:25.439 --> 01:11:28.079
Oh, this is absolutely ghastly.

1155
01:11:28.140 --> 01:11:29.460
Please can we do this one?

1156
01:11:30.659 --> 01:11:32.520
It's operatically terrible.

1157
01:11:33.300 --> 01:11:34.560
It's the best, Robert?

1158
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:35.399
No.

1159
01:11:35.579 --> 01:11:40.800
Yes, yeah, but when I say operatically, it's because he sings opera.

1160
01:11:41.579 --> 01:11:42.359
The episode.

1161
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:44.819
It's Planet of the Little People.

1162
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:46.920
I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

1163
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:48.180
Oh no.

1164
01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:49.739
And they were racist.

1165
01:11:50.100 --> 01:11:52.380
Yeah, they've all got like smell of voices.

1166
01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:55.859
They've given them all...

1167
01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:57.899
Oh no.

1168
01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:06.899
And the doctor has in his resignation and says, I want to be on the planet of the little people because they appreciate my singing.

1169
01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:08.880
I mean, it's so bad.

1170
01:12:10.380 --> 01:12:11.579
It's up to you.

1171
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:16.140
I'm happy to keep going, but we do have to do all these ones.

1172
01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:18.180
No, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

1173
01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:19.560
All right, all right. do another one.

1174
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:22.500
We've done this one.

1175
01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:26.640
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season two, episode 18 Death Wish.

1176
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:28.680
Oh, I enjoyed that one.

1177
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:30.659
You were too sure, were you?

1178
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:31.319
No.

1179
01:12:35.340 --> 01:12:36.600
Come on, the Thor.

1180
01:12:36.659 --> 01:12:38.699
Can't you pull the 4 out of your old?

1181
01:12:40.619 --> 01:12:42.960
No, but I have done this one.

1182
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:49.500
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season five, episode three, Extreme Risk.

1183
01:12:49.500 --> 01:12:52.619
No, that's another terrible blonde...

1184
01:12:52.619 --> 01:12:57.180
So it's... doing extreme sports.

1185
01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:03.180
She's got this massive plastic skeleton on her chest for our most of the episode.

1186
01:13:04.079 --> 01:13:08.159
It's really, that's the one where he's sort of talking to the Cardassian doctor, I think.

1187
01:13:09.119 --> 01:13:18.000
No, it's the one where she's pushing herself into extreme situations because of the death of all of the marquis.

1188
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:20.340
It's so clumsy, though.

1189
01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:24.840
Okay. excellent. let's try another one Wait, there must be a good episode somewhere.

1190
01:13:25.979 --> 01:13:26.699
Mm.

1191
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:30.539
It's part 2.

1192
01:13:31.380 --> 01:13:39.899
Uh-oh, of your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season three, episode one, basics, part two.

1193
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:40.800
Oh, Christ.

1194
01:13:40.859 --> 01:13:48.420
Now, I mean, I think basics part one is a banger, and I think basics part two is... where everything goes wrong.

1195
01:13:48.899 --> 01:13:49.859
Falls to pieces.

1196
01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:50.340
Yeah.

1197
01:13:50.579 --> 01:13:51.960
It's pillars out.

1198
01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:56.819
Jerry's in and we're ditching everything we loved about series 2.

1199
01:13:57.960 --> 01:13:58.859
Yeah, yeah.

1200
01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:00.300
I mean, it would be an interesting conversation.

1201
01:14:02.039 --> 01:14:03.600
But a lot...

1202
01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:07.140
Yeah, yeah, it is a bit of a long edit.

1203
01:14:09.659 --> 01:14:11.100
Go on, one more, one more.

1204
01:14:11.460 --> 01:14:12.359
All right, one more.

1205
01:14:14.399 --> 01:14:20.699
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season 5, episode 7, Infinite Regress.

1206
01:14:22.079 --> 01:14:23.699
Well, I don't remember a thing about that.

1207
01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:29.159
I think it's that's the one where 7 of 9's having sort of multiple personality syndrome.

1208
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:31.500
That could be any episode.

1209
01:14:32.340 --> 01:14:41.399
Well, no, she's sort of going around behaving like a little girl and sort of suspicious trader and she's got all these sort of Borg personality stuck in her head.

1210
01:14:41.939 --> 01:14:43.020
That sounds terrible.

1211
01:14:43.619 --> 01:14:46.920
I think it kind of is. but Jerry's great in it obviously.

1212
01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:49.020
Oh, what do you think?

1213
01:14:49.079 --> 01:14:49.500
What do you think?

1214
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:51.479
I think maybe just one more time.

1215
01:14:52.920 --> 01:14:54.359
See, it's like, what's the other one?

1216
01:14:54.420 --> 01:14:57.180
It's a little bit like, is it conspiracy?

1217
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:58.380
No, not conspiracy.

1218
01:14:58.439 --> 01:15:01.800
There's another conspiracy theory sort of one where she...

1219
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:03.720
Oh, the voice. conspiracy, yeah.

1220
01:15:04.079 --> 01:15:06.600
Yeah, which is just loads of talk.

1221
01:15:07.500 --> 01:15:10.500
And Jerry's really can't save it.

1222
01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:13.319
You know, she's superb, but she can't make it any better.

1223
01:15:13.739 --> 01:15:14.579
I never forget.

1224
01:15:14.579 --> 01:15:16.319
I mean, there's an ad break.

1225
01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:29.699
Yeah, which is just Jerry talking and talking and talking and talking and it goes into the abbreak with her just talking more conspiracies again and again and again and you're like, well, I don't want to come back to that.

1226
01:15:29.760 --> 01:15:31.260
So I'll switch over now.

1227
01:15:31.319 --> 01:15:31.739
Thank you.

1228
01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:39.359
No, I mean, that's very much like, you know, your insane auntie at Thanksgiving who watches a lot of Fox News, I think.

1229
01:15:39.720 --> 01:15:40.800
Oh, I've got a feeling.

1230
01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:42.779
If you do just press out one more time.

1231
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:44.220
What we're going to get is a banger.

1232
01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:45.960
Okay, all right.

1233
01:15:46.020 --> 01:15:46.800
I see.

1234
01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:49.920
Is everyone's patience exhausted yet?

1235
01:15:51.479 --> 01:15:55.979
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season five, episode 13, Gravity.

1236
01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:57.960
Oh, God.

1237
01:15:58.439 --> 01:16:00.840
Are you deliberately going for all the boring ones?

1238
01:16:02.100 --> 01:16:03.300
No, it's just...

1239
01:16:03.300 --> 01:16:05.220
There are 5 episodes of series five.

1240
01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:07.920
You've gone for all the tedious ones.

1241
01:16:08.520 --> 01:16:09.720
1159.

1242
01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:11.159
Someone to watch over me.

1243
01:16:11.699 --> 01:16:12.479
I love him.

1244
01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:13.319
Yeah.

1245
01:16:13.380 --> 01:16:14.279
Why can't we have them?

1246
01:16:14.579 --> 01:16:15.479
Okay, come on.

1247
01:16:15.539 --> 01:16:17.159
If you want to cut any of these out, please.

1248
01:16:17.220 --> 01:16:17.760
Go ahead.

1249
01:16:17.819 --> 01:16:19.979
You could make this shot. against the rules.

1250
01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:21.359
Yes, the rule.

1251
01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:22.319
Please put it again.

1252
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:23.939
It used to be our longest one ever.

1253
01:16:24.300 --> 01:16:25.439
Okay, here goes.

1254
01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:33.359
This is really bad.

1255
01:16:34.439 --> 01:16:35.939
You thought gravity was good.

1256
01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:36.539
The disease?

1257
01:16:37.140 --> 01:16:37.619
Nope.

1258
01:16:38.100 --> 01:16:40.680
Um, the one where they're on the orbital tether?

1259
01:16:40.739 --> 01:16:42.659
No, I quite like that one, even though it's terrible.

1260
01:16:43.140 --> 01:16:47.819
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season two, episode 4 Elogium.

1261
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:51.539
Oh, this is one of the worst episodes of Voyager.

1262
01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:53.279
And it's right next to Twisted as well.

1263
01:16:56.579 --> 01:16:59.100
I think they were on the same VHS tape.

1264
01:16:59.340 --> 01:17:00.659
I hit a bit of a slump.

1265
01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:09.720
It's the one which is about Kes being pregnant and somehow entirely about what Neelix thinks about it.

1266
01:17:10.140 --> 01:17:11.760
Yeah, oh, no, I can't bear that.

1267
01:17:11.819 --> 01:17:12.359
I can't pay that.

1268
01:17:12.420 --> 01:17:15.840
All right, all right. one more Oh, they're ready good forger episodes.

1269
01:17:18.899 --> 01:17:23.640
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season five, episode 14, Bliss.

1270
01:17:24.779 --> 01:17:25.739
Oh my god.

1271
01:17:26.520 --> 01:17:31.739
That's that boring one where they're just seeing like the earth all the way through.

1272
01:17:31.739 --> 01:17:33.720
They just sit on the one more time.

1273
01:17:33.779 --> 01:17:34.800
Come on, come on, one more time.

1274
01:17:34.859 --> 01:17:36.000
One more time, one more time.

1275
01:17:38.220 --> 01:17:39.180
Okay, it's this.

1276
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:40.140
Oh, finally.

1277
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:43.920
Don't be too excited.

1278
01:17:44.520 --> 01:17:51.539
But I've hit my limit with your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season three, episode 19 Rise.

1279
01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:53.039
Oh, no.

1280
01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:53.880
Oh, I...

1281
01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:58.979
I did it to myself, didn't I, by mentioning the old...

1282
01:18:00.899 --> 01:18:03.060
All right, let's do it.

1283
01:18:03.539 --> 01:18:13.260
This is the one that everybody else thinks is the worst episode of Voyager, but it's kind of it is terrible, but it's kind of watchable because it's so terrible.

1284
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:22.979
Like, I think that there's problems with it, and I think the biggest problem is that it's too late in the run to be doing this with Tuvok and Neelix.

1285
01:18:23.340 --> 01:18:24.119
Perhaps.

1286
01:18:24.659 --> 01:18:26.399
But I don't mind the special effect.

1287
01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:28.319
And, you know, there's a thing. don't know.

1288
01:18:28.500 --> 01:18:37.619
There's an incredible moment I will never forget where Tufok is supposed to be standing on the roof of the orbital tether, yeah.

1289
01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:43.680
And it's got all clouds around him, but they can't afford special effects.

1290
01:18:43.739 --> 01:18:49.920
So they've just put in a backdrop of clouds behind him, like paper mache cloud.

1291
01:18:51.539 --> 01:18:54.600
It is unbelievably bad, the special effects in this.

1292
01:18:54.659 --> 01:18:55.739
Oh, let's do it.

1293
01:18:56.159 --> 01:18:58.619
I mean, if nothing else, well.

1294
01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:03.000
I remember there being some particularly dismal guest performers in it as well.

1295
01:19:03.060 --> 01:19:03.899
I think there might be.

1296
01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:07.680
We could do a good contrast with children of time. absolutely.

1297
01:19:07.739 --> 01:19:08.220
All right.

1298
01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:09.899
We'll do it Jesus Christ.

1299
01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:12.060
Can I just say this at the end?

1300
01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:16.500
I can't believe we've spent 10 minutes and all we got was rise.

1301
01:19:16.920 --> 01:19:17.520
Duh.

1302
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:22.380
It's a lot of effort to go to, isn't it?

1303
01:19:22.619 --> 01:19:23.340
Oh well.

1304
01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:25.619
Oh, dear.

1305
01:19:34.859 --> 01:19:45.119
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1306
01:19:45.659 --> 01:19:50.520
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the feed was composed by Cameron Lahn.

1307
01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:56.340
This episode was recorded on the 6th of October 2026 and released on the 9th of October.

1308
01:19:56.760 --> 01:20:00.539
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Rise.

1309
01:20:17.819 --> 01:20:19.800
Well, I mean, we'll have fun with it.

1310
01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:21.420
I guess so.

1311
01:20:22.020 --> 01:20:24.119
Maybe it'd be better not to choose a whole thing.

1312
01:20:25.260 --> 01:20:29.220
Maybe in future, I could just go, let's pick a season 4 episode.

1313
01:20:29.699 --> 01:20:34.619
Like initiation isn't a bad episode, but it's not, it's not particularly great.

1314
01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:40.319
I mean, they're on location and it's got Aaron in it, but it's yeah, which is kind of interesting.

1315
01:20:40.739 --> 01:20:47.699
It's still that sort of oddly classist, slightly racist case of the stuff they were doing at the start.

1316
01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:48.539
Yeah, yeah.

1317
01:20:48.779 --> 01:20:49.199
Yeah.

1318
01:20:49.739 --> 01:20:50.159
Yeah.

1319
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:51.899
I, um, yeah.

1320
01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:53.880
Well, good grief.

1321
01:20:53.939 --> 01:21:02.039
That really did prove that Voyager was an inconsistent run if we had to go through that many episodes to find something worth watching and it isn't even worth watching.

1322
01:21:04.140 --> 01:21:06.359
Imagine if you chosen 1159.

1323
01:21:06.539 --> 01:21:08.279
I mean, that's really, oh, really?

1324
01:21:08.279 --> 01:21:09.539
Love 1159.

1325
01:21:10.260 --> 01:21:10.739
Yeah.

1326
01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:12.239
I really like it actually.

1327
01:21:12.359 --> 01:21:13.140
Oh, I see.

1328
01:21:13.199 --> 01:21:17.640
This is what Kate Mulk looks like when she can just act, you know, when she just knows what's going on.

1329
01:21:17.699 --> 01:21:19.619
But it's just a, it's like a hallmark movie.

1330
01:21:19.739 --> 01:21:22.079
Like it's literally a hallmark movie, isn't it?

1331
01:21:22.140 --> 01:21:25.319
Like, like it's a romance, you know, like I really like it.

1332
01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:30.180
Yeah, I like the curmudgeonly old man who runs the bookshop as well, you know?

1333
01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:32.039
Yeah, I do too.

1334
01:21:32.460 --> 01:21:33.300
I do too.

1335
01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:34.079
It is really good.

1336
01:21:35.159 --> 01:21:36.420
It's quite funny, isn't it?

1337
01:21:36.600 --> 01:21:38.340
we only cut back to the Voyager crew.

1338
01:21:38.460 --> 01:21:43.979
It's like I've always said to you before, every time you they do episodes away from the Voyager crew, they're the best episodes.

1339
01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:46.319
It's like, what's it called?

1340
01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:48.180
The one in the future with the doctor.

1341
01:21:49.260 --> 01:21:50.100
Living witness.

1342
01:21:50.159 --> 01:21:50.939
Living Witness.

1343
01:21:51.300 --> 01:21:51.779
Yeah.

1344
01:21:52.380 --> 01:21:56.880
Or the one with the doctor and Andy Dick on the Romulan ship, you know?

1345
01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:00.119
Just all the best episodes. revolt revulsion?

1346
01:22:00.840 --> 01:22:01.260
No.

1347
01:22:02.699 --> 01:22:03.300
Oh, no.

1348
01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:04.739
I only did the other guy.

1349
01:22:05.699 --> 01:22:07.079
Revulsion's pretty good actually.

1350
01:22:07.859 --> 01:22:09.180
Yeah, revulsion's crime.

1351
01:22:09.239 --> 01:22:11.039
He's probably creepy, isn't he?

1352
01:22:11.399 --> 01:22:13.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1353
01:22:13.619 --> 01:22:16.020
And it's not Eddie Dick, but it is another comedian.

1354
01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:18.180
Like it's a new...

1355
01:22:18.300 --> 01:22:20.880
Leyland Arthur, I think his name is.

1356
01:22:21.119 --> 01:22:26.460
Yeah, but he had a, he was a regular in something like news radio or something like that. can't remember.

1357
01:22:27.899 --> 01:22:31.619
I mean, I can't believe Joel Gray turns up in an episode of Voyager.

1358
01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:32.579
I mean, it's just...

1359
01:22:32.579 --> 01:22:33.720
Jesus Christ.

1360
01:22:33.779 --> 01:22:34.859
Have you seen that?

1361
01:22:34.920 --> 01:22:35.340
Yes.

1362
01:22:35.340 --> 01:22:36.119
Resistance.

1363
01:22:36.180 --> 01:22:37.560
Well, he's got the melon on his head.

1364
01:22:39.300 --> 01:22:40.560
For fuck's sake.

1365
01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:44.640
We wouldn't need to do Star Trek and we're going to put a melon on.

1366
01:22:44.939 --> 01:22:47.039
We're gonna have to measure you up for this melon.

1367
01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:52.380
I was in cabaret, you know.

1368
01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:53.880
That's right.

1369
01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:56.460
One of Academy Award.

1370
01:22:57.960 --> 01:22:59.039
Oh, bless.