Hey, Joe. Hi.
So this week we're watching another Star Trek, the original series
episode, and it is from series three.
It's Spectre of the Gun.
Is there anything you want to tell us about it before we launch
into it?
Well, Spectra of the Gun was the 1st episode of season 3 to go
before the cameras.
Ah, and I think you can tell because I think there's still a
little bit of season 2 magic occurring here.
It's before, you know, before the good wills run out in season
three.
We get to when the children shall lead and Spock's brain and all
that lot, you know?
And it's one of 4 scripts in this season that are written by Lee
Cronin, which remember I said to you before was the pen name for
Gene probably trying to slip under the radar without the Gene
Roddenberry noticing him.
Um, I'm going to say straight off the bat, I think this is a
really strong episode of the original series.
And I think it basically gets everything right that Spock's brain
got wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
I honestly had not seen it all the way through before.
And I am fairly certain I've been in the room when it's been on or
something, like I've seen bits of it, and obviously it's terribly
iconic.
Yeah, it's the imagery, isn't it?
sticks in your head.
I deliberately have come today wearing a maroon red t-shirt.
Yeah, it's the exact colour of the sky in this episode.
Yeah, it's amazingly good.
It's very simple.
Like it's super straightforward.
It does have something to say, I think.
Do you remember a fistful of data in TNG?
Yeah, which is the other big Western episode of Star Trek.
This is so much better than a fiscal of day is.
And you may argue at this point.
I just think that's directed by Patrick Stewart, that one.
When I was back at college, I did a media course and we studied
Westerns, which I've always found very, very boring, but I had a
really good appreciation of them when studying the genre and just
all the fundamental basics of a Western are essentially ignored.
It's got all the cliches, but none of the wide open vistas, like
none of the filming techniques, but actually they do far more of
that here in a studio than they do in a fistful of days.
I feel, I feel like, um, that series 5 episode of TNG is listless
and it feels like they've taken a camera to a Western town for a
day and just had a bit of a jolly.
Whereas this, I feel like they're actually making a Western in
this story and they understand the genre.
I think, though, that a fistful of daters does have Marina Syrtis
in leather pants in it.
So it does have that going for it.
Oh my god, it has her worst line delivery ever.
Do you not remember?
Where she's by the barrel and someone comes in and she's like, goes
that won't even think about it.
And she's trying to do this.
She's trying to do this American accent. really terrible.
But isn't that Deanna doing a bad American accent?
Like, isn't that deliberate?
I think it's really fun.
She's terrific in that episode.
I was like, I know we're talking about Spectrum, the gun, by.
I just going to say one seat.
Do you not remember where it's like, she goes, what, Durango?
My name's Durango.
He goes, oh, yes.
Counsellor Durango.
There's some fun bits in it, and I love the buxom woman who's like
oh, marry me. and she, but it's Brent Spiner playing it with a
pair of teasel.
It's not fun.
I just don't think it's a great Western.
Whereas, you know, this isn't really a Western, is it?
It's like this 1st contact and there's all sorts happening within
this episode, but it just gets the sort of the imagery right and
the tone.
I think it's really properly tense, and I think it's beautifully
directed.
Yeah, it is.
And, uh, you know, we've been talking about action sequences in
Berman Trek last week, you know, when they were in that shuttle
pod and literally just sort of touching the walls a bit.
Whereas there's an action sequent at the end of this.
There's a high angles and handheld camera work and it's all very
exciting.
And I'm like, oh, this was 30 years earlier, for God's sakes, you
know?
Yeah.
It's not the sort of thing that Star Trek the Next Generation
would have attempted at all.
I guess we can talk about that as we're going through, but this is
the sort of thing that may, well, maybe Star Trek the Next
Generation might have done it in season one before they...
Really, really terribly.
Yeah, yeah, you know, very badly.
It would have had Tasha Yar being madly over the top, you know.
Oh, protect you, captain.
You know?
Yeah, so bad.
But what this does as well, you know, is, you know, one of your, uh
many complaints of 90 Trek.
I know, you love it, is isn't quite visually weird enough or
conceptually weird enough sometimes.
And I think this does that.
It's basically, you said to me before, original trek, it kind of
scores on that level, and that's where kind of discovery picks up
the mantle, but does it with a massive budget, you know, the same
sort of thing.
Yeah, no, it wants to be like original trek in a way that Star
Trek the Next Generation absolutely doesn't want to be.
Although nothing's like original trek in terms of melodrama
because there's plenty of that in this as well.
So good.
Everyone's taking it so fucking seriously, aren't they?
I'm like, are you mad?
Have you not seen the absurd things that are occurring around
you?
And there's Shatner behaving like he's in the gravest Shakespeare
play you've ever seen, you know?
He's so good in this He's very good.
And I think this is before, like I said, the 1st one in series
three.
So this is before the goodwill of the actors has run out as well.
If you recall Spot's brain waves riving about on the floor quite a
lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
You think we should get going?
Oh, yeah, I can't wait.
Let's see the gunfight at the okay corral.
All right.
Well, I will count us in in that case.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Did you realise that how long the pre-credit sequence was in
this?
Oh, how long was it?
It does take a while, doesn't it?
It's nearly 5 minutes.
It's the 2nd it's the 2nd longest in original trek.
Wow, okay.
I mean they routinely do 15 minutes nowadays, don't they?
Yeah, but you said it the other week.
They don't play by the rules anymore, do they?
You know, they do part they do part 3 of a two-parter, 10 years
later or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 30 years later.
So, I think, so when I watched it today, I watched the new special
effects.
Did you?
Can you see the new special effects?
So I'm watching on Netflix and they've only got the new special
effects and it's all like in beautiful HD.
So this direction just felt even more crisp, you know?
It looked really good.
I think I am now watching for the 1st time the original special
effects.
So yeah, yeah.
So last time I watched it on Netflix as well.
And so I got the very, very crisp and beautiful, um, you know, that
that opening shot, uh, over the enterprise and stuff that starts
starts the episode, um, and that this sort of weird...
What are you seeing on the screen right now then?
So it is a rotating boy.
It is rotating and changing colour, but it's just a physical
object, I think.
Oh, okay.
That's being lit.
I mean, I'll never, I'll never condemn original track for having
ropey special effects.
No, like it was groundbreaking it at the time.
Yeah.
And we spoke about this, didn't we?
I think that the new special, the new special effects are a way of
ensuring that the show continues to have an audience and that it
looks as good as it possibly can.
And they're pretty sympathetic.
The trouble with it is, is I think with episodes like this, which
I don't really think there's anything too embarrassing about this
episode.
So it just enhances how good it all looks.
Whereas if it's a really shit episode.
It just imparts is how crap it is, doesn't it?
So once again, we get born in HD glory, you know?
It blinks in the special edition.
No, does it?
Yep.
It's inanimate, but it blinks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. blinks.
I love this thing too, where they all hear it in their own
language, Swahili and Vulcan, and it's that same voice that not
quite the same voice, but the same kind of voice as we got in, um
in the episode we did last time.
I'm completely blanking on the...
Not Spock's brain.
No, the one before that.
Oh, the Kobamite maneuver.
Oh, yeah.
It's always an Englishman, isn't it?
Playing the mysterious voice.
I could do it, no.
No, no, I think it's like a very, very serious American radio
presenter or something.
It's that sort of this, this voice is slightly different, but it's
the same sort of thing.
I mean, this is very Corbamite maneuver at the beginning, isn't
it?
A mysterious object, you know, giving ultimatums to them and
stuff.
But it did highlight, you said about the Swahili thing.
It did highlight just how little Ahura is in this.
And actually, it would have been so nice if she'd have gone down
to them.
Because like if this had been like a DS9 episode, you'd have had
Dax and you'd like Kira down there, you know, gum slinging and
being very cool.
You know, fistful of daters, you had marina circus and hat, you
know, the mysterious stranger come into town.
Whereas this is all men.
This episode.
Yeah, you know, and that's a shame.
The Western is that though, isn't it?
Like, but this is supposed to be progressive, isn't it?
Yeah, and it is progressive and that's one of the things that it
actually says, but perhaps just not progressive enough.
I think the only woman in this, isn't it?
is the one who's fixating on Chekhov.
Yeah, yeah, that's properly funny too.
You said they take it seriously, but the check-off relationship
with that woman is actually pretty funny.
No, no, I mean, I mean, Shatner.
He's taking it very seriously.
Yeah, yeah. this, you know, but in a very, I mean, it makes it
funnier, I think, how he takes it.
Now, this is so weird. stepping through the smoke and then the
mysterious face that comes out of the fog.
It's really good too.
I mean, it's clearly sort of papier mache or something.
Like it's not, but they haven't changed that.
They haven't changed that.
No, no, no, no.
Because it's good enough.
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, can I just say James Duhan was appalled at Scotty's new back
comb look.
Now, I know we mentioned this in Stock's Brave.
He's got the burial cream going and unfortunately, no, he did get
his own way eventually and his hair went back to normal, but
because they did the episodes out of order, he's back going, he's
normally back.
Scotty can't make up his mind, you know.
He's experimenting with a new look this year.
But I think this is really quite chilling looking, this face.
It's kind of like your head can't get around it, you know?
It's a bit weird.
Look, I mean, it's kind of crap and it's saved by some strategic
lighting and a lot of smoke and it has a sort of skull like look
to it too, I think.
But it's that thing where you're, you know, we talked about on
discovery, sometimes you're just not quite sure what it is that
you're seeing.
And I think that's that.
Are you kidding me?
This whole episode's like that.
I said, before we started recording, my brain just kept switching
off, I'd not been able to process what I was in these flats in a
Western town and, you know, bizarre things occurring.
But I don't know, like we've seen, you know, in original track
we're massive fans of Doctor Who, we've seen far worse. in that
age, you know, sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also, like, you know, you remember the episode with Adrian
Abraham Lincoln flying through space in case I'm down to the
planet and there's that massive turd creature that comes glowing
eyes and smoke all coming off him amazing, you know.
I still think they could pull it out of the bag, you know, in
series three.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And they, like, they're willing to go weird.
I mean, this is very, very weird this episode. kind of
incomprehensible.
Like, it doesn't make sense.
And it does, it sort of plays by weird rules.
Well, I don't know.
I think, yeah, I mean, it doesn't make sense as in they put them
through this very strange ordeal in order to get to the point.
But the point makes sense is like, are you violent?
If you are, we do not want to know you if you're not, come to our
planet, you know.
It's just a very surreal way of figuring that out, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
So, oh, sorry, go on.
No, no, I'm just kind of thinking, right, this is what, 1968, I
think.
And Um, There are a lot of Westerns on television in America in
1968.
And, and Star Trek, you know, that waggon train to the stars thing
it is a sort of space western where you turn up somewhere and you
fix something and then you disappear.
You know, it has some of that structure.
It's got a lot of western and its DNA.
The actual premise of DS9 was that it was a frontier town.
You've got the sheriff and you've got the bar, you know, so DSI
was, and all the strangers come to town with their stories and, you
know, that was basically the idea of it.
I think next gen pushed away from that a little bit.
But, uh, original series was definitely, what was it called?
Waggon, waggon train.
Waggon train to the stars.
Yeah.
And and so this is Star Trek saying we're not this.
We're not a Western and we don't approach the problem-solving
thing the way that a Western does.
Because Western solves problems through violence.
Knights and human species.
Wow, I do love, I'm pre-empting now.
I do love the bit where Kirk says, actually, I wanted to be
violent.
I wasn't, but I wanted to be.
So it's like, you know, the potential is still there.
I just want to point out how spectacularly good the lighting is in
this episode.
And I think the reason why it's so visually impressive is because
of how the characters are highlighting.
There's almost something very theatrical about it.
It's like they're on a stage and there's a lot of kind of shadows
behind that and they're sharply contrasted against it. lighting in
60s television is vital.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Like some of our favourite 60s shows that aren't Star Trek and
things shot in black and white, where again, lighting absolutely
makes it.
But look, there's shadows on their faces, like, and there's lots
of black in the frame.
It's, it's really interesting.
It is the sort of thing that you might have got in lighting in
black and white.
You know, in sharp contrast to Spock's brain that we watched.
Remember, we were going, well, it's so linear and there's just
there's nothing happening and they're just going from A to B to C
and it's, you know, there's just no substance to it.
There's a mystery here to solve, you know, in a very weird
setting.
So I'll just say, and it is a proper, this is like what I imagine
original Star Trek to be. a proper adventure. with these fun group
of characters, you know?
Yeah.
This just feels like still TOS to me.
Yeah.
Well, you know, when the sky is realised through flats, which
happens so often in original track and in early next gen as well.
Boy, does it?
Yeah, it never looks good.
And imagine if they had decided that they were going to go for a
more realistic kind of take on it and it had been a blue flat, you
know, and and they had shot around the fact that the buildings
aren't all built or whatever.
It would have been so lacklustre, like so much less interesting.
It's so bizarre.
It's like the budget actually leans into this, like the lack of
budget, sorry, leans into this being more impressive than it
otherwise would have been because they've got these weird flats
which are clearly flats, you know, like there's no there's no
depth of them at all.
And it's a hard, like it's a hard setting to process.
When they were going into rooms. that don't have walls.
They were still outside, but it was also like a bar or a sheriff's
office and things like that.
My brain just kept saying, what is going on?
Yeah, the red is really, really oppressive.
And it's blood red, isn't it?
For an episode about violence.
Do you think that's deliberate?
Well, I don't know, possibly, it only just occurs to me, but it is
it's an unpleasant red.
I mean, look at the red of Scotty's uniform, which is just a much
more kind of standard.
It's, you know, primary colour red.
And, but this is, like, it's like a bruise or something.
It's it's unpleasant.
Um, and it's really, really iconic.
Yeah, but look, are there walls in there, but they're just painted
the same red?
No.
No, there's no walls.
It's literally no walls.
It's not a set.
It's just the exterior flat and then you go in.
It's like a set.
Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?
Obviously, this was originally.
I said to you before we put it, this was supposed to be done on
location.
And I don't think it would be anywhere near as impressive if it
had a bit.
No, I think it would have been a bit terrible.
Almost memorable.
Yeah.
Yeah, it would have been Star Trek does its Western episode.
Like a fistful of daters. where they're on, Are they on the
Paramount lot or something?
It's just a, you know, they've got a Western town lying around.
They can shoot in.
They do go out on location.
But it tells you.
Red Dwarf went to a Western town that's in England, right?
And unfortunately, you know, it's it's been raining, of course.
And so it's all the mud's churned up and it basically looks like a
Western town blocked in the middle of England.
But they shoot it better.
Like they shoot it better than a fish full of daters.
They shoot it more imaginatively.
Yeah, I think I think the director does make a massive impact on
this one.
Yeah, you're right. trees.
Deforest Kelly, you know, had been acting in Westerns his entire
life.
His entire professional brain.
And he actually played one of the Clammons in a Western years
earlier.
Yeah.
Yeah, this guy, this guy is so that's the other thing.
The, they're really strange looking.
Like the men, the men in this town are ugly in all sorts of ways.
Like they've got a really hideous bunch of actors, of guest cast.
But the, um, they're all playing it straight as well.
I quite like that, you know, it could have all been very kind of
tongue-y.
Do you remember a piece of the action, the Chicago episode?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, actually, that belies what we just said there, because that
was all done on location, and that is fantastic.
That episode is really, really fun.
Oh, look, here we go.
Oh, you know, Chekhov, right?
Apparently there was a series of memos that did the rounds after
series 2 was over, saying, well, we need to give Chekhov more to
do.
Hence the fact that he's in the 1st episode, he's given this
subplot, romantic subplot.
Yeah.
Yes, and he gets to do lots of kissing.
It's so great.
But I know.
I know you want to have a go about his Beatles hair again.
I still love it.
It is so dreadful.
It's so bad He always looks a bit baffled, doesn't he?
He's very wrong-like.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, it's this thing straight away.
Kirk doesn't try to solve the problem through violence.
He refuses to draw, even before he kind of quite knows what's
going on.
Like, it's not clear that this is a test.
Is it?
The Malkosians have said to them that they are going to be killed
that they're being killed here.
And so they're expecting, you know, and they've been put here to
be killed in this sort of way.
And it, like, I don't know that the script makes it very clear, but
it seems clear that they have, Well, the script says they've read
Kirk's mind and that that's where they got the town from.
You think he watches a lot of Westerns then?
But they don't talk about it in those terms.
Like if you did it now or with a fistful of daters, it's a Western
rather than a frontier town, whereas this is America in 1881 and
it's super violent, and that's how problems are solved around
here.
And it's made clear that the law doesn't mean anything, and it is
just the person who wins at the gunfight, who wins.
So I suppose it does make sense in a weird sort of way.
And they are manipulated into a situation where the cliche
dictates that violence is the solution.
Yeah.
But because they're never told it's a test.
It's like, you know.
Yeah.
I just love everyone else's reaction because Chekhov gets to kiss
someone and they're all just kind of sitting there being slightly
annoyed.
I love the fact that Spock's got a gun around his belt.
It's fabulous.
Yeah.
He's great in this as well.
I thought Leonard Nimoy was really good in this.
There's an electric scene a little bit later, like in the episode
which I just think he's magnificent again.
So good.
Can I ask you a question?
Do you think they pull this off with more aplom than the other 60s
studio band Western that we both know about, which is Doctor Who's
the Gunfighters?
Yeah, see, it's interesting, isn't it, that Doctor Who did this
like did a Western inner studio and and it's also about the
gunfight at the OK Corral.
Like it seems to be, you know, the thing that we're doing.
It must be in there.
It's kind of like the most exciting thing you can do with AS
there.
It's like you're building up to a climax with a massive shootout
you know?
Yeah, and Doctor Who does that, it's largely comedic.
I think it lags a bit.
We all, uh, because for a long time everyone hated the gunfighters
because they hadn't seen it.
And then when we all saw it we discovered that it was actually
really quite fun.
But, like, it's superbly executed.
I think it's really well directed.
Yeah, yeah.
And in fact, I would say it's probably, it's doing something quite
different from this, obviously, because this is deliberately
fucking old.
And that's just going for, it is a Western.
Um, But like the finale of the gunfighters is all shot on film
like Star Trek is.
Um, and it's all that gunfight is genuinely dynamic.
It's really really good.
So I don't know, it's it's interesting that on, you know, probably
one 10th of the budget, they can achieve the same sort of
effects.
Yeah, whereas Star Trek, like, like, I want to say this is
budgetary reasons, and it must be, uh, you were saying earlier, Joe
that um, the original intention had been to shoot this on location
or on the backlot or something where they're actually outside and
we've got the real sky and everything.
And then they decide they can't afford to do that.
But they could still have attempted to do what Doctor Who did
which was to try and look realist.
Yeah.
But they don't.
Like it...
It's so funny. where this guy says to who he thinks is Ike Clanton
that he can't show his ugly face around here again or he was told
not to show his ugly face around here again.
And the 2 of them are so fucking ugly and they're talking about
they're talking about Shatner. look how rough these people look.
Shana looks very pre though.
He does.
Yeah.
He's not the one with the ugly face in this scene.
You're being so mean about these poor cowboys.
Don't you think that's deliberate?
Like, I think the way that they are scary looking and impassive
and the director actually puts them in these sort of tableaux as
well.
Like there's frequently a few of them in shot, uh, at the same
time.
And, you know, their faces are half in shadow.
And I think they seem really quite frightening.
I think as well that because Shatner pitches his performance very
seriously.
It does actually feel like there's a genuine threat here.
Because if they were all going around like, oh, well, this is fun
it's jolly on a Western, you know, flat out, how delightful.
I don't think, you know, we'd be as invested as we are.
We're thinking if Tom Paris was here talking about Westerns and
how much he loves them or something.
Oh, my God, Tom.
You know, you're the biggest fan of Westerns, aren't you?
Yeah, there's never been mentioned before.
On the shelf next to your book of trucks and your book of cartoons
and...
Yeah, exactly.
Crappy 50s sci-fi. the whole thing.
In fact, the one person who doesn't take it seriously is Chekhov.
It doesn't take anything seriously, though.
No, but he gets to, this stuff is so funny.
So this is the alcohol, the, um, and McCoy's giving it to them
because it's medicinal.
They ought to label it for external use only. is such a great
line.
I kind of slouched on the table there.
Yeah, I know.
He's absolutely at home in this Western, I think.
They do have fantastic chemistry though, don't they?
No, I know I'm complaining that it's all blokes, but as an
ensemble.
It's rarely a bit vettered, I think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It is weird though, because I find it in the later seasons.
That's where I don't think I don't remember Scotty being around
that much in series one.
And obviously Chekhov when it came in series two.
So they were trying to broaden things a bit. in later years, you
know?
But I still think it's those three, the 3 main ones who are so
good together.
Yeah, this, where Chekhov says if he gets shot at by this gun
because it's not a phaser, he can just walk out of the way.
Like he's, he's, he's not frightened by this.
Dude, you think they're setting up something that might happen
later on in the episode?
I think they are.
Sky's looking even more oppressive.
I swear he's getting darker.
It's really good, isn't it?
such a good choice.
And you know, like we said about being on location.
If that was the case, then it wouldn't have had any of the
oppressive lighting that we've talked about either.
It would be such a different effect.
They'd have less control over it.
Yeah.
And it's so wonderful because it looks cheap and it's deliberate.
Like, you know, Yeah.
Although if you turned on now and went, oh, well, what is this?
You know?
But it's doing that wonderful thing that Star Trek at his best
does and that's taking something familiar and something weird.
And I think, uh, TOS does that extremely well, you know, we'll go
down to a quarry.
Oh, look, there's the bunny out of Alice in Wonderland running
around to know.
What about this clock, which just seems to be hanging in the sky?
So when we see the shots of the clock that's counting down to 5 PM
it's not hanging on anything, it's just in the sky.
And I think that's so great.
The bizarre dramatic zooms in and out when we go from scene to
scene, you know?
Yeah, that's very strange. awful, you'd be all over that.
You love all that sort of stuff in discovery.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Roll the camera over.
It's not, you know, it's not a stationary camera watching 79 walk
away stately.
Did you watch all of this at the time?
TOS?
No, no, no.
So the last episode of TOS is the only one that was broadcast in
my lifetime.
Oh, yeah, you said sorry.
Yeah.
Oh my god, I made sound really old.
How old do you think I am?
I'm looking a bit rough this evening. might explain it.
I'm sorry No, that question came out wrong.
Please allow me to reprase that.
I do not think you're like 70 years old, all right?
He's very pretty, everybody, honestly.
Sorry, did you watch this when you were a child is what I meant?
No.
No, I didn't.
And I remember as a kid being told that Star Trek was scary and
would give me nightmares and I did see little bits and pieces of
it, but the 1st Star Trek that I ever seriously watched was Star
Trek, the Next Generation.
And then after that I went back and looked at some of these.
There's still gaps, isn't it?
You haven't watched all of it.
Yeah, yeah.
Look at this.
That sign that says teeth pulling by appointment is hanging in the
air.
Well, I mean, I think I can just about see a string.
But yeah, I get the idea.
But yes, isn't that such a great choice.
It's such an odd thing to do.
And I think this is great as well.
You've got Doc Holiday in the chair, right?
And McCoy's coming into steal his supplies.
That's a weird thing about McCoy just going, well, I need it, so
I'm going to have it, you know.
And he gets up.
He's really menacing.
The performance is really.
Yeah.
Well, it's funny, isn't it?
It's kind of like, well, we're prepared to let you do this.
We don't care because we're going to shoot you dead in a couple of
hours.
I will say, no, um, and, uh, Oh, good grief, I've forgotten the
guy's name, Scott McNulty from Random Trek, of which we are still
waiting on an invite to appear on.
Why is our invite, Scott?
Yeah.
I mean, I am certainly out for a while.
But he always says that TOS episodes are about 5 or 10 minutes too
long.
And I generally think it's true.
And I, this didn't sag as badly as some.
Not Spock's brain, for example.
But this could be a little snipped, I think.
But I'm the one who complains about how slow 90s trek he is.
And I think this is slow, but the kind of slowness of it, you know
everyone's moving slowly, that it's, it's, like they're really
playing into creating tension.
I think there's a lot of shots of just these guest characters
standing around looking menacing and I think that works.
Did you notice the music in this episode, like the fun Western
themes.
Now, this was Jerry Fielding, the music for this, and he only did
one other Star Trek episode, and that was the Trouble with
Tribbles, and that's got a really distinctive musical score.
Yeah, yeah.
They should have had him back more often, I think.
Yeah, he's good then.
I think this was good.
Oh, here she is.
Yeah, see, I really want...
See, I really want a tough woman in this.
Actually, maybe we should have been 1st season TNG.
We going to have Tasha Yar, didn't we?
Yeah, so this is a big scene though, isn't it?
Oh, Chekhov gets his robots.
Do you know what, though?
He's such a bloody ledge.
Every planet he goes on.
He's trying to cop off for somebody.
Seriously, even in the dark recesses of Kirk's mind here.
He's still trying to get off on somebody.
That's the idea, isn't it?
Isn't this all in Kirk's head?
No, I don't think so.
Is this actually on the planet?
They say in the last scene, don't they?
None of it, none of it happened.
Well, yeah, I'm not sure about that.
Like, they say that Chekhov was up on the bridge the whole time.
Because you know what this feels like, though?
This does feel like a holiday episode.
Yeah, we see, I think that the holodeck exists to give a more
serious, sensible explanation for why we're going to have a story
set in, you know, why we have a piece of the action or what's that
one where it's ancient Rome, you know?
Is that requiem for you?
Yeah, yeah.
Really terrible.
Oh, the one or the one with Rome where it's a TV studio.
It's literally being filmed and it's all part of like the
political gender of the planet.
The gladiatorial games.
Yeah, the bread and circuses.
Yeah, that one.
Yeah, yeah.
And so what they do is they say, well, we can have Westerns or
whatever.
We've got the holodeck and so we've got a reason to do it.
But that's what happens.
You get Fairhaven and things like that. you know, it goes to such
an extreme.
It's like Deep Space 9 definitely does it.
I mean, Deep Space 9 does use the holodeck to explore different
genres.
I know, but come on.
Oh, man, Bashir, butter being, butter bang.
No, they're great. does it well.
That's the difference.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Unlike Fairhaven.
I'm sure there's a terrible DS9 holiday episode.
I just can't think of any.
Like, look, it's like, even uses a holiday in, like, it's only a
paper moon, doesn't it, to explore PTSD?
things like that.
Yeah.
Well, they do what Voyager does, which is they have a holiday
program that's running all the time and they go there and visit
and it's their bar, you know, it's so boring in a way.
TOS is just like, oh, well, we're just going to wear stuff
happening.
And it's just happening, you know.
We don't need some boring technology to give an excuse.
Well, it's amazing how real the dialogue and the actors make this
environment when it's so patently fake, where it's so absolutely
leaning into the artifice of being a studio set.
That shot there of the man against the red sky and the 2 coming
behind.
That is terrifically directed.
He's good, this guy.
So he just goes to show them.
Within the Fred, was his name, Freiberger?
Freiburger, uh, series 3, with the reduced budget, if they had had
the imagination and the creativity, We didn't have to have a box
brain every other week.
It could have been a spectra of the gun, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But then let's be honest, you know, very quickly talking about
Doctor Who again. they did that all the time.
No money, lots of imagination.
That's right.
I think it was the fact that the goodwill of the network was
gone.
And I don't think there was anybody casting a decent eye over the
writing.
Look at that shot that we went to the ad break on.
Where they're all tiny in the distance all sort of huddled up and
there's like the dark figures of the men much, much bigger in the
front of the frame.
It's so well done.
And the 3 shot of the, of, of them just looking completely
impassive with their moustaches.
That's his that's his race of stakes.
So do we think Chekhov is dead?
No, I don't think we do.
And I was wondering what effect that has, was it a good idea or
not?
Because I don't think we think that Chekhov is dead.
And...
I'm assuming at the time, Chekhov, like, landed well with the
audience because they wouldn't be saying, well, we need to give
him more to do if they were getting bad feedback about, you
know...
They're not going to do a skin of evil and kill one of the
regulars early on in an episode.
That's just not going to happen.
And so that means that we know.
I mean, we know that they're going to be okay.
Like the tension isn't, are they all going to be killed on this
planet or not, is it?
You remember that episode where McCoy gets a life sentence at the
beginning that he's going to die?
He's going to die imminently of this disease and he's like, oh, Jim
you know, I only got a week to live.
And then, you know, and the whole episode is about his mortality.
And at the end, it's like, oh, there's a cure.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah, I don't think mortality is much of a thing, is it?
I mean, you could take someone's brain out of their head and they
still survive.
They're better next week.
They're fine by the end of the episode.
I think that this scene is terrifically good, and it's McCoy being
super racist about, I find this a bit troubling, you know?
No, I mean, but it's the thing with they forget half human.
And then Troy is abashed and realises what an asshole has been
because even though Spock doesn't, and you can see, it's so subtle
from Nemoy's performance, but you can see that he's feeling it.
Even despite that impassivity that he has.
I think he's really good.
I posted you before.
I really like the chemistry between Deforest Kelly and the Nemoy
and I think it's one of the best Star Trek pairings.
And it's, you know, why in all the other shows, They say, Tuvok
Cornelix, it's this shows Bones and Spock, you know.
Yeah.
And they've never successfully replicated it, have they?
Oh, down Quark?
I think that works brilliant.
It's quite different, but it's a contentious relationship that you
buy into and love.
Yeah.
But I mean here, that central, we talked about this before, the
central 3 where you've got someone for whom emotion is important
and someone who is trying to work without emotional work around
their emotions, and then you've got a guiding principle that has
to adjudicate between them.
I think what's different, isn't it here?
Is the relationship, it's given such prominence because they are 2
of the 3 main characters in this.
Whereas in all the other shows.
It's an ensemble piece.
They're ensembles.
Yeah, they come together every now and again, whereas they, you
know, there's a bones and spock scene in pretty much every
episode.
Yeah.
They are racist to varying degrees.
Yeah, that's right.
Sometimes it really bothers me though.
It really, and I'm just like, And I know it's a, it's a, it's a
product of the time and I'm not going to go down that route, but
It wouldn't happen now.
Yeah, you wouldn't like those scenes now.
No.
Yeah, we wouldn't be expected to retain sympathy for McCoy for a
character who behaved like McCoy or spoke like McCoy.
Even of one of the aliens. sort of an outwardly villainous
character like Giorgio in...
Discovery.
She doesn't really say racist things, does she?
She's, well, she did eat that Kelpian.
Well, that's just very good taste, is it?
Nice bechamel sauce.
Lightfall.
Yeah, now here's another one of these ugly guest stars and good
god the sheriff is rough looking, isn't he?
He's up against.
William Shatneau's looking very pretty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like that.
They've got the wind machine going.
They actually blowing leaves, leaves from the studio as well, you
know.
Well, I think I do think it is good, though, that they play
Chekhov's death.
For real.
Yeah.
You know, like, like, I'm convinced they think he's real, even
though we kind of know, well, this is a weird episode, so he's got
a pop out of nowhere at the end.
Yeah.
Yeah, look at this guy.
It's so good because this is the clearest explanation of how
problems are solved in this in the world here, you know, that
you've got the sheriff saying you should shoot these people dead
because we're sick of them.
And everyone would think that was okay and I wouldn't stand in
your way.
Is there anything more delightful than seeing William Shatner
downcast, punching his fists, looking like he's going to cry and
getting all it emotional?
It's just wonderful.
I mean, I can't hear him, but it's just...
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it does go to an extreme because in the one with the
children when the children shall lead, Kurt thinks he's going mad
and all of a sudden he's in like the turbo lifting, he's like
smashing walls and going, I'm losing my mind, you know, like, and
it's all a bit much.
But uh, oh, the smoke bomb.
Have I missed a bit where Scotty inhales the entire smoke, but I
mean, I think just being that close to all that smoke would knock
you out a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, no, because it's not real.
The laws of chemistry don't apply.
And it's funny because the world is so artificial and they take it
so seriously, that they're actually shocked by the fact that these
chemicals that they've mixed up don't behave right.
You know, the laws of physics and chemistry don't apply in this
world.
So it's a strange place.
It's actually the TV equivalent of a stage play, isn't it?
I like, you know, the audience in a theatre.
If the actors are compelling enough, you literally forget you're
in a theatre and you're just in the story.
I don't know what Scotty is saying right now, but he looks very
pleased for himself.
I do like the fact that they are trying to use the conventions of
the genre to find the solution.
He goes, doesn't he?
what have we got here that we can use that prevents us from being
violent, you know?
Yeah.
And that's like all the way through that they want to negotiate.
They don't want to find.
Like there's never a moment until the end, you know, where we see
them tempted to do the gunfight.
That looks like the warp core breach drink, the cork serves.
All that smoke...
It's like the Sergeant Benton. yeah, I don't mind.
I'll just I'll inhale all the smoke.
Bless him.
He's really getting into it too.
So ridiculous.
Yep, it's not working. like.
Yeah.
He's going, look, no dizziness, no sweaty.
No, no palpitations like, yeah.
I'm clearly fine.
You know.
Yeah, yeah.
So we are reaching the point then where they are coming to the
inescapable conclusion that they may have to use violence.
They have to fight.
Yeah.
Yeah, that they have to fight the Clans.
They just have to.
I mean, the Earps, I get them all mixed up.
I think it's interesting because, like, Chatner plays it like that
is a genuine conflict.
Like, like he, he is a, uh, he is better than that, but he's got
to do it.
You know, that's quite an ask of an actor.
Oh, that whopping great close-up on that clock.
Hangs.
Spended in the air.
It's so great.
Look at the picture as well.
Is it a picture?
Yeah, the picture is just hanging in the air as well.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Oh, here we go.
Zoom, zoom, new location.
Yeah.
This sequence now in the okay corral.
I thought this was really well directed. and they're throwing
everything at it now.
The sky's practically black.
The wind machine's going, there's leaves everywhere.
Yep.
Oh, Shatner's hairs all over the place.
And, you know, I'm going to tell you something that's going to
stun you rigid.
The camera moves.
I love it when that happens.
Oh, so hang on.
Oh, lightning?
Is it is it down on all of them or does Kirk have to be the one
who chooses to fight or not?
Yeah, I don't know.
Um, because they get it from Kirk's mind, don't they?
So they clearly have decided that we are a violent race because
this is his background.
Like they say, it's his cultural background.
I mean, it's McCoys as well, isn't it?
But, um, Or is McCoy from Canada?
I don't know.
I mean, I don't think there's any, we're under any illusion that
Kirk doesn't think he's the lead in his own story.
So they're like, okay, well, it's clearly him then.
Yeah.
And this...
Sorry.
Well, I think this solution is really strange.
And I kind of like it.
And what's the solution?
How do they not get involved in the fight?
They deny the reality of the fight.
I don't know if that's really practical in a, you know, in the
real world or whatever, but so you know what this is then, don't
you?
This is like the precursor to move along home.
They were never in any real danger all along.
No, turns out.
And in fact, you know, Chiros is exactly a shorter show where
they'd be standing around going, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, you know.
We all thought we were going to die and use violence, you know.
Oh, dear.
There's a lot of episodes that end like that, you know.
Yeah.
And the music goes, Do you know what?
I think doing this for you, right?
I'm getting far more of a love for the original series than I ever
had before.
Yeah, I think like even the bad one that we did was sort of fun.
Like, you know, that was so bad.
It circled around, it was magnificent.
No, I don't agree with that.
I think it was just very bad, but it was enjoyable to watch.
Brain his brain.
What is brain?
What his brain?
But no, I just...
It's really interesting jumping about the entirety of Star Trek
and I figured it would be.
Well, I don't think I've ever done this.
I did it for my review website, but I don't remember done this and
discussed it like this.
Yeah.
It really highlights the strengths.
And the weaknesses. of each era.
And TOS is one of TOS's massive strengths is it's just its fucking
ability to just go for it.
You know?
Which 90s Treks doesn't.
No.
I think too, it benefits from getting the opportunity to do things
for the 1st time.
And, you know, this whole environment was a throwaway gag in lower
decks.
And lower decks, one of the jokes that happens in lower decks all
the time is, you know, crew members are always brought back from
the dead and his 8 possible reasons or, or this is the reason why
Boimler has a girlfriend and he has 15 possible reasons from
previous episodes.
And so this sort of disbelieving an illusory environment where
that happens just all the time.
It happened.
It happened in the episode of Picard that aired most recently
where 7 has to work out whether she's in a real environment or
not.
And so we've seen it over and over and over again, but not by this
point.
And so they, they can properly kind of just let the concept
breathe because it...
The extra time is a good thing, you know, that they...
I just want to point out, because I don't think I'm going to say
it's too often in original track, just how spectacularly directed
all this is.
You've got a tight shot here on McCoy and Spock spotlit from
above.
Very dramatic.
You've got the villains coming through.
There's lightning striking their faces.
All of the backdrop is being lit up and it's like something out of
a like a horror movie.
It's, it's, properly really carefully choreographed who that shot
is there so that they're all visible in it as they walk abreast.
It's so good.
You said something in when we were having a wonderful discussion
about the Beaumar last week in the Raven.
You said that'll do.
There's no that'll do, Inspector of the Gun.
It's like, it's like, you know what?
We ain't got much money.
Yeah, mate, this look as good as we can. you know?
That's a good director. need to find out who that was.
Yeah, see what else they did.
And you know, like, a story that promises an exciting climax needs
to deliver it.
And this thing, and this does, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, the whole thing's a countdown, isn't it, to 5 p.m.
We know that they're going to be killed later on.
I think that this would have given me nightmares as a child.
I think the people who told me that watching original series would
give you nightmares, that was all there was back then.
The alien looks like a big green penis with glowing eyes.
I mean, my life may have turned out quite differently if I watched
this as a child.
And that, like, that's properly scary, again, with the bit of wood
that's behind them. getting all the bullet holes in it while
they're standing in front of it.
It's such a well staged shot. you know, more shots of the, you
know, 4 characters on each side.
Yeah, staggered in a line.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. positioned, you know?
It's really awfully done.
Look at Kirk.
No one fights like Kirk, I'm telling you.
He's standing there like a wrestler, you know?
He's probably punching him like a nutter.
The bit at the beginning where he just leaps up and kicks him in
the chest.
Oh, never have done that, would he?
Maybe Ry can't rock him either.
I think he's supposed to be like the Kirkish action man, isn't
he?
Yeah, 0 yeah, that was the idea.
And certainly Philippa Giorgio would obviously kick people in the
chest. there wasn't as much violence there as I remember.
But I think I think what makes it so dramatic is all that all the
lead up to it, you know?
Yeah, it's quite short, but and it does centre on that decision
where he just puts the weapon down.
You know what?
They kind of missed a treat, though, because, like, they zoomed in
on the okay corral and out on the medical device, the McCoy
house.
Like they could have done something like the same shaped object in
both.
Yeah, they would have been quite a kind of nice transition.
Oh, here we go.
She was so beautiful, but she wasn't real.
Sorry, Chekov.
You're at home again in bed tonight, I'm afraid.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah. like Geordie.
That's Ahura.
I mean, Michelle Nichols must have been like, what is this?
I'm in the 1st and the last scene and I see it.
She wanted to leave, didn't she?
I remember reading that.
She won Italy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She was convinced by...
Martin Luther King?
Yeah, to say no, you know, you are in a prominent role in a TV
show, sit in the future.
Like, whatever they make you do, do it, you know?
Yeah.
It's that device that they look through.
It looks like, you know, you know, like those old things you used
to have as a child.
A graph view master.
Yeah, and it kind of like, you know, the new the new pitch comes
in and you feel like you're in Venice or something like that one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's all it knows.
But it's quite, uh, it's quite a nice ending, uh, with, you know
Kirk having made 1st contact now with the, what they call the
tellotions, tell actions?
The, no, no, the...
Oh, Mel Coach.
Melk, something.
Mel cotions.
Better than a fucking Beaumont, isn't it?
Thanks for having that buzzy catastrophe in it.
Oh, wait.
You and me said we were going to measure everybody by the Beaumont
now.
Yeah, these are way better. much, much better.
Even though it's just a papier mache haired, you know, projected
against a Starfield.
I think it looks really good I will celebrate the day we find the
elegance worse than the Beau Mar, though.
I don't think it'll ever happen.
But this sort of alien which Star Trek, like, has all the time.
Original Trek has all the time.
You know, we never get that.
We just get various Americans with latex glued to their face.
And do you remember the Sheliac corporate?
I think I mentioned them last week.
What the hell was that?
So it was, it was like, it looked like a big black shape.
They were in transigent aliens and we weren't allowed through
their space in a very early Star Trek, the Next Generation episode
and it was like a black figure in a black room with weird lighting
and stuff, and that was a very sort of proper original series
alien of a kind that then gets abandoned, I think.
I love, do you remember Nigelum?
From that 2nd season episode, where it's this weird sort of baby
face.
It's an extreme close-up.
Yeah.
That's very TOS, that, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely.
And before Berman came in and went, this is all a bit
embarrassing.
The music's too dynamic.
Can we just make this a bit Bayesia please?
But so this conversation at the end where it's the conversation
about wanting to kill that Kirk did want to kill, but he also
didn't.
You say in that line and looking at the audience.
We overcame our violence.
We're better than this.
It's like an episode of Sabrina, a teenage witch.
But that's good.
I think that that is that's good.
This is not a Western, even though it has all sorts of features in
common with Westerns as a show.
This is a show where they solve problems, not just by shooting at
things, but by understanding them or rejecting violence or finding
a better way.
And I think that's awesome.
Well, like we have, okay, so we've done 3 episodes of Star Trek's
on the Bounce now, uh, in all good things.
We had the philosophical moment between Q and Picard in Primordia
Earth, which didn't make any sense to us at all.
We just felt like they were trying to give it more depth when it
wasn't really there.
We had the moment between Janeway and 7 at the beginning where
they're talking about the imagination creativity and all of that.
And here we have, you know, discussion on the the protocols of
violence and whether we're better than that in the future.
So which show's doing it better for you at the moment.
Well, I think that this episode is very basic and it is a very
very simple message of nonviolence, but it's a message that's
being broadcast into a world that needs to hear it, I think.
And so this is the concept, doesn't it?
It builds the episode around the concert where the others.
It's just, you know, an anomaly and 7's backstory with a bit of
philosophy thrown in.
What I do like is that Spock gives him a look when he says, you
know, we're all a bit better than this in the future.
And Spock's got a very unconvinced look on his face.
And walks away in silence just saying, oh, I don't think you are
you know.
I thought that was quite a nice note to end it on.
Yeah.
Well, I thought that was fantastic.
It's very very enjoyable.
And I think it's worth remembering that even in Star Trek's
darkest days and we've done a couple of season 7 TNGs recently
we're going to get around to a season one DS9 at some point.
And, you know, we've dipped into early enterprise.
So there's still things of merit.
Yeah.
Oh for sure.
All right, it's time for us to choose next week's episode, and so
here I am at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and
it's my turn to push the button.
Can I ask which shows you are including an excluding?
I am including all of them. because I'm really tired and can't
think of a good reason to exclude any.
And because just now we kind of scrolled back through the website
and I think we've been doing a wide range of things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The only thing is, is when we put everything into the randomiser
it absolutely favours 90s trek.
Nice trek, because there's so much of it.
There's so many bloody episodes.
Yeah.
But that's all right.
That's all right.
We can we can correct for that if we come up with things.
But I think that when we did the Raven last week as a just
standard average episode of 90s Trek, there was still a lot of fun
to be had.
So I am willing to go anywhere.
I think.
I have heard this rumour, yes.
All right.
Okay.
I'm going to press a button.
Go for it.
Oh, okay, I've started with the lower decks episode.
Oh, go on.
Yeah, it's the spy humungous.
From series two, series two, episode six.
And it's a Pac-Lad episode.
Well, I mean, I haven't seen that one, and there's very few very
like, 0 no, I hadn't seen that Discovery episode the other week
haven't I?
I'm a terrible fan, me.
Well, that one's down to you because I really don't know much
about series 2 of Lower Decks.
I may it's good.
Lower decks is always good.
It is properly funny and the pack leads are a great, big, bad.
But I feel there's a upcoming anyway.
But I just don't want this process to be over, so I am going to
well, again for like literally no reason.
Just because we love pressing the bottom.
That's it.
I get one go. pressing the button now, is that fair?
No, I'm going to try it.
Well, you did 5 the other week.
We were going for all those short treks.
Okay, this is Star Trek Voyager.
Season six, episode six, Riddles.
Oh my god.
That's the episode I was telling you about the other week.
What, you know, I said 7 of 9 and Neelix were talking about eating
food.
And there was a whole episode of Chewbok learning how to be a
human again.
It's really awful and there's loads of e-bix in here.
Push again.
Okay.
Okay, this is this is also Star Trek Voyager, and it's part one of
a two-part story, I think.
So we would have to do both parts.
Of course.
That's our rule.
It's the killing game from season four.
Wowsers.
That's the one in not, see, jump.
No, we were talking about it the other week.
Oh, man, that would be fun to do.
Because it's terrible in lots of ways.
But it's absolutely bloody brilliant in lots of ways as well.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, we've done a few 2 parters lately and I'm absolutely up for
another one. do you reckon?
Well, it's one of those wonderful episodes where we get to see all
the regulars in different roles.
Yeah, yeah.
Jane Way, the head of this club and the head of the resistance and
she has cracking rows with 7 in this and you can absolutely see
that crackling tension between them.
Oh, brilliant.
All right, let's do that then.
I'm there for.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lam.
This episode was recorded on the 12th of March 2020 and released
on the 18th of March.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, the killing game.