WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:31:43

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So this week we're watching another Star Trek, the original series episode, and it is from series three.

3
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It's Spectre of the Gun.

4
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Is there anything you want to tell us about it before we launch into it?

5
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Well, Spectra of the Gun was the 1st episode of season 3 to go before the cameras.

6
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Ah, and I think you can tell because I think there's still a little bit of season 2 magic occurring here.

7
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It's before, you know, before the good wills run out in season three.

8
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We get to when the children shall lead and Spock's brain and all that lot, you know?

9
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And it's one of 4 scripts in this season that are written by Lee Cronin, which remember I said to you before was the pen name for Gene probably trying to slip under the radar without the Gene Roddenberry noticing him.

10
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Um, I'm going to say straight off the bat, I think this is a really strong episode of the original series.

11
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And I think it basically gets everything right that Spock's brain got wrong.

12
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Yeah, yeah.

13
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I honestly had not seen it all the way through before.

14
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And I am fairly certain I've been in the room when it's been on or something, like I've seen bits of it, and obviously it's terribly iconic.

15
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Yeah, it's the imagery, isn't it?

16
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sticks in your head.

17
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I deliberately have come today wearing a maroon red t-shirt.

18
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Yeah, it's the exact colour of the sky in this episode.

19
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Yeah, it's amazingly good.

20
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It's very simple.

21
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Like it's super straightforward.

22
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It does have something to say, I think.

23
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Do you remember a fistful of data in TNG?

24
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Yeah, which is the other big Western episode of Star Trek.

25
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This is so much better than a fiscal of day is.

26
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And you may argue at this point.

27
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I just think that's directed by Patrick Stewart, that one.

28
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When I was back at college, I did a media course and we studied Westerns, which I've always found very, very boring, but I had a really good appreciation of them when studying the genre and just all the fundamental basics of a Western are essentially ignored.

29
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It's got all the cliches, but none of the wide open vistas, like none of the filming techniques, but actually they do far more of that here in a studio than they do in a fistful of days.

30
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I feel, I feel like, um, that series 5 episode of TNG is listless and it feels like they've taken a camera to a Western town for a day and just had a bit of a jolly.

31
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Whereas this, I feel like they're actually making a Western in this story and they understand the genre.

32
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I think, though, that a fistful of daters does have Marina Syrtis in leather pants in it.

33
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So it does have that going for it.

34
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Oh my god, it has her worst line delivery ever.

35
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Do you not remember?

36
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Where she's by the barrel and someone comes in and she's like, goes, that won't even think about it.

37
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And she's trying to do this.

38
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She's trying to do this American accent. really terrible.

39
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But isn't that Deanna doing a bad American accent?

40
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Like, isn't that deliberate?

41
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I think it's really fun.

42
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She's terrific in that episode.

43
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I was like, I know we're talking about Spectrum, the gun, by.

44
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I just going to say one seat.

45
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Do you not remember where it's like, she goes, what, Durango?

46
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My name's Durango.

47
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He goes, oh, yes.

48
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Counsellor Durango.

49
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There's some fun bits in it, and I love the buxom woman who's like, oh, marry me. and she, but it's Brent Spiner playing it with a pair of teasel.

50
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It's not fun.

51
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I just don't think it's a great Western.

52
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Whereas, you know, this isn't really a Western, is it?

53
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It's like this 1st contact and there's all sorts happening within this episode, but it just gets the sort of the imagery right and the tone.

54
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I think it's really properly tense, and I think it's beautifully directed.

55
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Yeah, it is.

56
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And, uh, you know, we've been talking about action sequences in Berman Trek last week, you know, when they were in that shuttle pod and literally just sort of touching the walls a bit.

57
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Whereas there's an action sequent at the end of this.

58
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There's a high angles and handheld camera work and it's all very exciting.

59
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And I'm like, oh, this was 30 years earlier, for God's sakes, you know?

60
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Yeah.

61
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Yeah.

62
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It's not the sort of thing that Star Trek the Next Generation would have attempted at all.

63
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I guess we can talk about that as we're going through, but this is the sort of thing that may, well, maybe Star Trek the Next Generation might have done it in season one before they...

64
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Really, really terribly.

65
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Yeah, yeah, you know, very badly.

66
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It would have had Tasha Yar being madly over the top, you know.

67
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Oh, protect you, captain.

68
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You know?

69
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Yeah, so bad.

70
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But what this does as well, you know, is, you know, one of your, uh, many complaints of 90 Trek.

71
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I know, you love it, is isn't quite visually weird enough or conceptually weird enough sometimes.

72
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And I think this does that.

73
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It's basically, you said to me before, original trek, it kind of scores on that level, and that's where kind of discovery picks up the mantle, but does it with a massive budget, you know, the same sort of thing.

74
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Yeah, no, it wants to be like original trek in a way that Star Trek the Next Generation absolutely doesn't want to be.

75
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Although nothing's like original trek in terms of melodrama because there's plenty of that in this as well.

76
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So good.

77
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Everyone's taking it so fucking seriously, aren't they?

78
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I'm like, are you mad?

79
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Have you not seen the absurd things that are occurring around you?

80
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And there's Shatner behaving like he's in the gravest Shakespeare play you've ever seen, you know?

81
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He's so good in this He's very good.

82
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And I think this is before, like I said, the 1st one in series three.

83
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So this is before the goodwill of the actors has run out as well.

84
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If you recall Spot's brain waves riving about on the floor quite a lot.

85
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

86
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Yeah.

87
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You think we should get going?

88
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Oh, yeah, I can't wait.

89
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Let's see the gunfight at the okay corral.

90
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All right.

91
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Well, I will count us in in that case.

92
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

93
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Did you realise that how long the pre-credit sequence was in this?

94
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Oh, how long was it?

95
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It does take a while, doesn't it?

96
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It's nearly 5 minutes.

97
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It's the 2nd it's the 2nd longest in original trek.

98
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Wow, okay.

99
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I mean they routinely do 15 minutes nowadays, don't they?

100
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Yeah, but you said it the other week.

101
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They don't play by the rules anymore, do they?

102
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You know, they do part they do part 3 of a two-parter, 10 years later or whatever.

103
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, 30 years later.

104
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So, I think, so when I watched it today, I watched the new special effects.

105
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Did you?

106
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Can you see the new special effects?

107
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So I'm watching on Netflix and they've only got the new special effects and it's all like in beautiful HD.

108
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So this direction just felt even more crisp, you know?

109
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It looked really good.

110
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I think I am now watching for the 1st time the original special effects.

111
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So yeah, yeah.

112
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So last time I watched it on Netflix as well.

113
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And so I got the very, very crisp and beautiful, um, you know, that that opening shot, uh, over the enterprise and stuff that starts, starts the episode, um, and that this sort of weird...

114
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What are you seeing on the screen right now then?

115
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So it is a rotating boy.

116
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It is rotating and changing colour, but it's just a physical object, I think.

117
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Oh, okay.

118
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That's being lit.

119
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I mean, I'll never, I'll never condemn original track for having ropey special effects.

120
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No, like it was groundbreaking it at the time.

121
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Yeah.

122
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And we spoke about this, didn't we?

123
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I think that the new special, the new special effects are a way of ensuring that the show continues to have an audience and that it looks as good as it possibly can.

124
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And they're pretty sympathetic.

125
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The trouble with it is, is I think with episodes like this, which I don't really think there's anything too embarrassing about this episode.

126
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So it just enhances how good it all looks.

127
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Whereas if it's a really shit episode.

128
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It just imparts is how crap it is, doesn't it?

129
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So once again, we get born in HD glory, you know?

130
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It blinks in the special edition.

131
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No, does it?

132
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Yep.

133
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It's inanimate, but it blinks.

134
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. blinks.

135
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I love this thing too, where they all hear it in their own language, Swahili and Vulcan, and it's that same voice that not quite the same voice, but the same kind of voice as we got in, um, in the episode we did last time.

136
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I'm completely blanking on the...

137
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Not Spock's brain.

138
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No, the one before that.

139
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Oh, the Kobamite maneuver.

140
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Oh, yeah.

141
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It's always an Englishman, isn't it?

142
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Playing the mysterious voice.

143
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I could do it, no.

144
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No, no, I think it's like a very, very serious American radio presenter or something.

145
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It's that sort of this, this voice is slightly different, but it's the same sort of thing.

146
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I mean, this is very Corbamite maneuver at the beginning, isn't it?

147
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A mysterious object, you know, giving ultimatums to them and stuff.

148
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But it did highlight, you said about the Swahili thing.

149
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It did highlight just how little Ahura is in this.

150
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And actually, it would have been so nice if she'd have gone down to them.

151
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Because like if this had been like a DS9 episode, you'd have had Dax and you'd like Kira down there, you know, gum slinging and being very cool.

152
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You know, fistful of daters, you had marina circus and hat, you know, the mysterious stranger come into town.

153
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Whereas this is all men.

154
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This episode.

155
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Yeah, you know, and that's a shame.

156
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The Western is that though, isn't it?

157
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Like, but this is supposed to be progressive, isn't it?

158
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Yeah, and it is progressive and that's one of the things that it actually says, but perhaps just not progressive enough.

159
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I think the only woman in this, isn't it?

160
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is the one who's fixating on Chekhov.

161
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Yeah, yeah, that's properly funny too.

162
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You said they take it seriously, but the check-off relationship with that woman is actually pretty funny.

163
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No, no, I mean, I mean, Shatner.

164
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He's taking it very seriously.

165
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Yeah, yeah. this, you know, but in a very, I mean, it makes it funnier, I think, how he takes it.

166
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Now, this is so weird. stepping through the smoke and then the mysterious face that comes out of the fog.

167
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It's really good too.

168
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I mean, it's clearly sort of papier mache or something.

169
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Like it's not, but they haven't changed that.

170
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They haven't changed that.

171
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No, no, no, no.

172
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Because it's good enough.

173
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You know?

174
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Yeah, yeah.

175
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Oh, can I just say James Duhan was appalled at Scotty's new back comb look.

176
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Now, I know we mentioned this in Stock's Brave.

177
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He's got the burial cream going and unfortunately, no, he did get his own way eventually and his hair went back to normal, but because they did the episodes out of order, he's back going, he's normally back.

178
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Scotty can't make up his mind, you know.

179
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He's experimenting with a new look this year.

180
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But I think this is really quite chilling looking, this face.

181
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It's kind of like your head can't get around it, you know?

182
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It's a bit weird.

183
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Look, I mean, it's kind of crap and it's saved by some strategic lighting and a lot of smoke and it has a sort of skull like look to it too, I think.

184
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But it's that thing where you're, you know, we talked about on discovery, sometimes you're just not quite sure what it is that you're seeing.

185
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And I think that's that.

186
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Are you kidding me?

187
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This whole episode's like that.

188
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I said, before we started recording, my brain just kept switching off, I'd not been able to process what I was in these flats in a Western town and, you know, bizarre things occurring.

189
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But I don't know, like we've seen, you know, in original track, we're massive fans of Doctor Who, we've seen far worse. in that age, you know, sure.

190
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

191
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And also, like, you know, you remember the episode with Adrian Abraham Lincoln flying through space in case I'm down to the planet and there's that massive turd creature that comes glowing eyes and smoke all coming off him amazing, you know.

192
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I still think they could pull it out of the bag, you know, in series three.

193
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

194
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Yeah.

195
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And they, like, they're willing to go weird.

196
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I mean, this is very, very weird this episode. kind of incomprehensible.

197
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Like, it doesn't make sense.

198
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And it does, it sort of plays by weird rules.

199
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Well, I don't know.

200
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I think, yeah, I mean, it doesn't make sense as in they put them through this very strange ordeal in order to get to the point.

201
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But the point makes sense is like, are you violent?

202
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If you are, we do not want to know you if you're not, come to our planet, you know.

203
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It's just a very surreal way of figuring that out, you know?

204
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Yeah, yeah.

205
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So, oh, sorry, go on.

206
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No, no, I'm just kind of thinking, right, this is what, 1968, I think.

207
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And Um, There are a lot of Westerns on television in America in 1968.

208
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And, and Star Trek, you know, that waggon train to the stars thing, it is a sort of space western where you turn up somewhere and you fix something and then you disappear.

209
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You know, it has some of that structure.

210
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It's got a lot of western and its DNA.

211
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The actual premise of DS9 was that it was a frontier town.

212
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You've got the sheriff and you've got the bar, you know, so DSI was, and all the strangers come to town with their stories and, you know, that was basically the idea of it.

213
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I think next gen pushed away from that a little bit.

214
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But, uh, original series was definitely, what was it called?

215
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Waggon, waggon train.

216
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Waggon train to the stars.

217
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:00.539
Yeah.

218
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And and so this is Star Trek saying we're not this.

219
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We're not a Western and we don't approach the problem-solving thing the way that a Western does.

220
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:20.220
Because Western solves problems through violence.

221
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.860
Knights and human species.

222
00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:25.740
Wow, I do love, I'm pre-empting now.

223
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.799
I do love the bit where Kirk says, actually, I wanted to be violent.

224
00:15:28.860 --> 00:15:30.840
I wasn't, but I wanted to be.

225
00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:32.940
So it's like, you know, the potential is still there.

226
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:38.940
I just want to point out how spectacularly good the lighting is in this episode.

227
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:46.080
And I think the reason why it's so visually impressive is because of how the characters are highlighting.

228
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:47.759
There's almost something very theatrical about it.

229
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:57.779
It's like they're on a stage and there's a lot of kind of shadows behind that and they're sharply contrasted against it. lighting in 60s television is vital.

230
00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:00.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

231
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:01.620
Yeah.

232
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:10.860
Like some of our favourite 60s shows that aren't Star Trek and things shot in black and white, where again, lighting absolutely makes it.

233
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:18.360
But look, there's shadows on their faces, like, and there's lots of black in the frame.

234
00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:21.299
It's, it's really interesting.

235
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.559
It is the sort of thing that you might have got in lighting in black and white.

236
00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:30.059
You know, in sharp contrast to Spock's brain that we watched.

237
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:38.279
Remember, we were going, well, it's so linear and there's just, there's nothing happening and they're just going from A to B to C and it's, you know, there's just no substance to it.

238
00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:42.419
There's a mystery here to solve, you know, in a very weird setting.

239
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:52.559
So I'll just say, and it is a proper, this is like what I imagine, original Star Trek to be. a proper adventure. with these fun group of characters, you know?

240
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:53.879
Yeah.

241
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.159
This just feels like still TOS to me.

242
00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:57.059
Yeah.

243
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:57.720
Yeah.

244
00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:09.779
Well, you know, when the sky is realised through flats, which happens so often in original track and in early next gen as well.

245
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.859
Boy, does it?

246
00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:13.140
Yeah, it never looks good.

247
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:30.599
And imagine if they had decided that they were going to go for a more realistic kind of take on it and it had been a blue flat, you know, and and they had shot around the fact that the buildings aren't all built or whatever.

248
00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:36.180
It would have been so lacklustre, like so much less interesting.

249
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:37.440
It's so bizarre.

250
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:53.880
It's like the budget actually leans into this, like the lack of budget, sorry, leans into this being more impressive than it otherwise would have been because they've got these weird flats, which are clearly flats, you know, like there's no there's no depth of them at all.

251
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:59.279
And it's a hard, like it's a hard setting to process.

252
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:03.720
When they were going into rooms. that don't have walls.

253
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:08.579
They were still outside, but it was also like a bar or a sheriff's office and things like that.

254
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:10.859
My brain just kept saying, what is going on?

255
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.880
Yeah, the red is really, really oppressive.

256
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:17.880
And it's blood red, isn't it?

257
00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:19.500
For an episode about violence.

258
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.900
Do you think that's deliberate?

259
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:28.200
Well, I don't know, possibly, it only just occurs to me, but it is, it's an unpleasant red.

260
00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:35.460
I mean, look at the red of Scotty's uniform, which is just a much more kind of standard.

261
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:37.980
It's, you know, primary colour red.

262
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:42.900
And, but this is, like, it's like a bruise or something.

263
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.180
It's it's unpleasant.

264
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.319
Um, and it's really, really iconic.

265
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:53.400
Yeah, but look, are there walls in there, but they're just painted the same red?

266
00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:53.759
No.

267
00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:55.019
No, there's no walls.

268
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:56.160
It's literally no walls.

269
00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:57.059
It's not a set.

270
00:18:57.059 --> 00:18:59.819
It's just the exterior flat and then you go in.

271
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:00.900
It's like a set.

272
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.059
Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it?

273
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.559
Obviously, this was originally.

274
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:08.759
I said to you before we put it, this was supposed to be done on location.

275
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:12.539
And I don't think it would be anywhere near as impressive if it had a bit.

276
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.960
No, I think it would have been a bit terrible.

277
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:17.400
Almost memorable.

278
00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:17.880
Yeah.

279
00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:20.819
Yeah, it would have been Star Trek does its Western episode.

280
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:26.880
Like a fistful of daters. where they're on, Are they on the Paramount lot or something?

281
00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:29.759
It's just a, you know, they've got a Western town lying around.

282
00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:30.660
They can shoot in.

283
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.160
They do go out on location.

284
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:33.539
But it tells you.

285
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:38.279
Red Dwarf went to a Western town that's in England, right?

286
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:42.900
And unfortunately, you know, it's it's been raining, of course.

287
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.119
And so it's all the mud's churned up and it basically looks like a Western town blocked in the middle of England.

288
00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:51.599
But they shoot it better.

289
00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:53.759
Like they shoot it better than a fish full of daters.

290
00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:55.140
They shoot it more imaginatively.

291
00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:02.339
Yeah, I think I think the director does make a massive impact on this one.

292
00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:06.299
Yeah, you're right. trees.

293
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:12.539
Deforest Kelly, you know, had been acting in Westerns his entire life.

294
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.460
His entire professional brain.

295
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:19.079
And he actually played one of the Clammons in a Western years earlier.

296
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:19.440
Yeah.

297
00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:26.640
Yeah, this guy, this guy is so that's the other thing.

298
00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:30.599
The, they're really strange looking.

299
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:37.019
Like the men, the men in this town are ugly in all sorts of ways.

300
00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:43.019
Like they've got a really hideous bunch of actors, of guest cast.

301
00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:46.500
But the, um, they're all playing it straight as well.

302
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:50.160
I quite like that, you know, it could have all been very kind of tongue-y.

303
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:52.200
Do you remember a piece of the action, the Chicago episode?

304
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:53.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

305
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:59.819
No, actually, that belies what we just said there, because that was all done on location, and that is fantastic.

306
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:01.319
That episode is really, really fun.

307
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.440
Oh, look, here we go.

308
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:05.880
Oh, you know, Chekhov, right?

309
00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:13.799
Apparently there was a series of memos that did the rounds after series 2 was over, saying, well, we need to give Chekhov more to do.

310
00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:18.359
Hence the fact that he's in the 1st episode, he's given this subplot, romantic subplot.

311
00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:19.200
Yeah.

312
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:22.859
Yes, and he gets to do lots of kissing.

313
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:23.579
It's so great.

314
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:24.480
But I know.

315
00:21:24.539 --> 00:21:26.819
I know you want to have a go about his Beatles hair again.

316
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.599
I still love it.

317
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:28.559
It is so dreadful.

318
00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:32.640
It's so bad He always looks a bit baffled, doesn't he?

319
00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:33.599
He's very wrong-like.

320
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.319
Yeah.

321
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:36.599
Yeah.

322
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:40.200
Yeah, well, it's this thing straight away.

323
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:43.740
Kirk doesn't try to solve the problem through violence.

324
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:49.559
He refuses to draw, even before he kind of quite knows what's going on.

325
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:52.319
Like, it's not clear that this is a test.

326
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:52.859
Is it?

327
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:59.039
The Malkosians have said to them that they are going to be killed, that they're being killed here.

328
00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:04.859
And so they're expecting, you know, and they've been put here to be killed in this sort of way.

329
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:17.880
And it, like, I don't know that the script makes it very clear, but it seems clear that they have, Well, the script says they've read Kirk's mind and that that's where they got the town from.

330
00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:21.660
You think he watches a lot of Westerns then?

331
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:25.680
But they don't talk about it in those terms.

332
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:43.380
Like if you did it now or with a fistful of daters, it's a Western, rather than a frontier town, whereas this is America in 1881 and it's super violent, and that's how problems are solved around here.

333
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:53.940
And it's made clear that the law doesn't mean anything, and it is just the person who wins at the gunfight, who wins.

334
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.539
So I suppose it does make sense in a weird sort of way.

335
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:04.740
And they are manipulated into a situation where the cliche dictates that violence is the solution.

336
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:05.460
Yeah.

337
00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:08.099
But because they're never told it's a test.

338
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.140
It's like, you know.

339
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:11.519
Yeah.

340
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:23.039
I just love everyone else's reaction because Chekhov gets to kiss someone and they're all just kind of sitting there being slightly annoyed.

341
00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.980
I love the fact that Spock's got a gun around his belt.

342
00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:27.779
It's fabulous.

343
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:28.200
Yeah.

344
00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:29.700
He's great in this as well.

345
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.259
I thought Leonard Nimoy was really good in this.

346
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:38.220
There's an electric scene a little bit later, like in the episode, which I just think he's magnificent again.

347
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:39.119
So good.

348
00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:40.859
Can I ask you a question?

349
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:51.420
Do you think they pull this off with more aplom than the other 60s studio band Western that we both know about, which is Doctor Who's the Gunfighters?

350
00:23:51.480 --> 00:24:05.400
Yeah, see, it's interesting, isn't it, that Doctor Who did this, like did a Western inner studio and and it's also about the gunfight at the OK Corral.

351
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.400
Like it seems to be, you know, the thing that we're doing.

352
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:09.480
It must be in there.

353
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:11.819
It's kind of like the most exciting thing you can do with AS there.

354
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.579
It's like you're building up to a climax with a massive shootout, you know?

355
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:19.380
Yeah, and Doctor Who does that, it's largely comedic.

356
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.819
I think it lags a bit.

357
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:27.420
We all, uh, because for a long time everyone hated the gunfighters, because they hadn't seen it.

358
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:31.380
And then when we all saw it we discovered that it was actually really quite fun.

359
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.920
But, like, it's superbly executed.

360
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:36.299
I think it's really well directed.

361
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:37.500
Yeah, yeah.

362
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:43.799
And in fact, I would say it's probably, it's doing something quite different from this, obviously, because this is deliberately fucking old.

363
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:46.859
And that's just going for, it is a Western.

364
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:56.039
Um, But like the finale of the gunfighters is all shot on film like Star Trek is.

365
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:01.619
Um, and it's all that gunfight is genuinely dynamic.

366
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.640
It's really really good.

367
00:25:03.660 --> 00:25:12.119
So I don't know, it's it's interesting that on, you know, probably one 10th of the budget, they can achieve the same sort of effects.

368
00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:33.480
Yeah, whereas Star Trek, like, like, I want to say this is budgetary reasons, and it must be, uh, you were saying earlier, Joe, that um, the original intention had been to shoot this on location or on the backlot or something where they're actually outside and we've got the real sky and everything.

369
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:36.359
And then they decide they can't afford to do that.

370
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:43.740
But they could still have attempted to do what Doctor Who did, which was to try and look realist.

371
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:44.339
Yeah.

372
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:45.660
But they don't.

373
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:47.579
Like it...

374
00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:59.819
It's so funny. where this guy says to who he thinks is Ike Clanton that he can't show his ugly face around here again or he was told not to show his ugly face around here again.

375
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:06.960
And the 2 of them are so fucking ugly and they're talking about, they're talking about Shatner. look how rough these people look.

376
00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:09.000
Shana looks very pre though.

377
00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:09.900
He does.

378
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:11.039
Yeah.

379
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:12.900
He's not the one with the ugly face in this scene.

380
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:19.079
You're being so mean about these poor cowboys.

381
00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:21.539
Don't you think that's deliberate?

382
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:34.200
Like, I think the way that they are scary looking and impassive and the director actually puts them in these sort of tableaux as well.

383
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:39.900
Like there's frequently a few of them in shot, uh, at the same time.

384
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.960
And, you know, their faces are half in shadow.

385
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:47.339
And I think they seem really quite frightening.

386
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:53.460
I think as well that because Shatner pitches his performance very seriously.

387
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.940
It does actually feel like there's a genuine threat here.

388
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:03.599
Because if they were all going around like, oh, well, this is fun, it's jolly on a Western, you know, flat out, how delightful.

389
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.779
I don't think, you know, we'd be as invested as we are.

390
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:12.119
We're thinking if Tom Paris was here talking about Westerns and how much he loves them or something.

391
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:13.799
Oh, my God, Tom.

392
00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:17.099
You know, you're the biggest fan of Westerns, aren't you?

393
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:18.480
Yeah, there's never been mentioned before.

394
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.880
On the shelf next to your book of trucks and your book of cartoons and...

395
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:25.079
Yeah, exactly.

396
00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:27.900
Crappy 50s sci-fi. the whole thing.

397
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:33.960
In fact, the one person who doesn't take it seriously is Chekhov.

398
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.140
It doesn't take anything seriously, though.

399
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.400
No, but he gets to, this stuff is so funny.

400
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:49.380
So this is the alcohol, the, um, and McCoy's giving it to them because it's medicinal.

401
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:55.319
They ought to label it for external use only. is such a great line.

402
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.319
I kind of slouched on the table there.

403
00:27:58.380 --> 00:27:59.759
Yeah, I know.

404
00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:02.400
He's absolutely at home in this Western, I think.

405
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.500
They do have fantastic chemistry though, don't they?

406
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:12.539
No, I know I'm complaining that it's all blokes, but as an ensemble.

407
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.579
It's rarely a bit vettered, I think.

408
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

409
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:21.720
It is weird though, because I find it in the later seasons.

410
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:25.740
That's where I don't think I don't remember Scotty being around that much in series one.

411
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:28.440
And obviously Chekhov when it came in series two.

412
00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:33.299
So they were trying to broaden things a bit. in later years, you know?

413
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:40.559
But I still think it's those three, the 3 main ones who are so good together.

414
00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:48.059
Yeah, this, where Chekhov says if he gets shot at by this gun because it's not a phaser, he can just walk out of the way.

415
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:51.960
Like he's, he's, he's not frightened by this.

416
00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:55.079
Dude, you think they're setting up something that might happen later on in the episode?

417
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:55.980
I think they are.

418
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:58.259
Sky's looking even more oppressive.

419
00:28:58.380 --> 00:28:59.640
I swear he's getting darker.

420
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.220
It's really good, isn't it?

421
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.660
such a good choice.

422
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:07.019
And you know, like we said about being on location.

423
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:13.140
If that was the case, then it wouldn't have had any of the oppressive lighting that we've talked about either.

424
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:14.940
It would be such a different effect.

425
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:15.960
They'd have less control over it.

426
00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:16.380
Yeah.

427
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:21.599
And it's so wonderful because it looks cheap and it's deliberate.

428
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:23.099
Like, you know, Yeah.

429
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.700
Although if you turned on now and went, oh, well, what is this?

430
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:27.180
You know?

431
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:36.059
But it's doing that wonderful thing that Star Trek at his best does and that's taking something familiar and something weird.

432
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:42.059
And I think, uh, TOS does that extremely well, you know, we'll go down to a quarry.

433
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:45.299
Oh, look, there's the bunny out of Alice in Wonderland running around to know.

434
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.839
What about this clock, which just seems to be hanging in the sky?

435
00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:58.200
So when we see the shots of the clock that's counting down to 5 PM. it's not hanging on anything, it's just in the sky.

436
00:29:58.259 --> 00:30:01.019
And I think that's so great.

437
00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:07.380
The bizarre dramatic zooms in and out when we go from scene to scene, you know?

438
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.339
Yeah, that's very strange. awful, you'd be all over that.

439
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:13.799
You love all that sort of stuff in discovery.

440
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:15.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

441
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:16.380
Yeah, yeah.

442
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.339
Roll the camera over.

443
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:21.779
It's not, you know, it's not a stationary camera watching 79 walk away stately.

444
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.740
Did you watch all of this at the time?

445
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.140
TOS?

446
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.019
No, no, no.

447
00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:40.140
So the last episode of TOS is the only one that was broadcast in my lifetime.

448
00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:42.539
Oh, yeah, you said sorry.

449
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:43.559
Yeah.

450
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:45.359
Oh my god, I made sound really old.

451
00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:46.319
How old do you think I am?

452
00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:50.579
I'm looking a bit rough this evening. might explain it.

453
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.980
I'm sorry No, that question came out wrong.

454
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:54.539
Please allow me to reprase that.

455
00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:57.180
I do not think you're like 70 years old, all right?

456
00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:00.059
He's very pretty, everybody, honestly.

457
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.500
Sorry, did you watch this when you were a child is what I meant?

458
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:05.279
No.

459
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:06.720
No, I didn't.

460
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:21.660
And I remember as a kid being told that Star Trek was scary and would give me nightmares and I did see little bits and pieces of it, but the 1st Star Trek that I ever seriously watched was Star Trek, the Next Generation.

461
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:25.559
And then after that I went back and looked at some of these.

462
00:31:25.619 --> 00:31:26.880
There's still gaps, isn't it?

463
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:27.839
You haven't watched all of it.

464
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:28.500
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:29.160
Look at this.

466
00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:33.420
That sign that says teeth pulling by appointment is hanging in the air.

467
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:36.240
Well, I mean, I think I can just about see a string.

468
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:37.380
But yeah, I get the idea.

469
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:39.779
But yes, isn't that such a great choice.

470
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:42.299
It's such an odd thing to do.

471
00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:45.240
And I think this is great as well.

472
00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:48.000
You've got Doc Holiday in the chair, right?

473
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.180
And McCoy's coming into steal his supplies.

474
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.079
That's a weird thing about McCoy just going, well, I need it, so I'm going to have it, you know.

475
00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.180
And he gets up.

476
00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:58.140
He's really menacing.

477
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.640
The performance is really.

478
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:00.299
Yeah.

479
00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:02.940
Well, it's funny, isn't it?

480
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.819
It's kind of like, well, we're prepared to let you do this.

481
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:11.819
We don't care because we're going to shoot you dead in a couple of hours.

482
00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:24.359
I will say, no, um, and, uh, Oh, good grief, I've forgotten the guy's name, Scott McNulty from Random Trek, of which we are still waiting on an invite to appear on.

483
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:25.440
Why is our invite, Scott?

484
00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:25.740
Yeah.

485
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.779
I mean, I am certainly out for a while.

486
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:32.940
But he always says that TOS episodes are about 5 or 10 minutes too long.

487
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.220
And I generally think it's true.

488
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:39.299
And I, this didn't sag as badly as some.

489
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.880
Not Spock's brain, for example.

490
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:47.759
But this could be a little snipped, I think.

491
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:54.359
But I'm the one who complains about how slow 90s trek he is.

492
00:32:54.420 --> 00:33:10.559
And I think this is slow, but the kind of slowness of it, you know, everyone's moving slowly, that it's, it's, like they're really playing into creating tension.

493
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:21.119
I think there's a lot of shots of just these guest characters standing around looking menacing and I think that works.

494
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:26.759
Did you notice the music in this episode, like the fun Western themes.

495
00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:38.819
Now, this was Jerry Fielding, the music for this, and he only did one other Star Trek episode, and that was the Trouble with Tribbles, and that's got a really distinctive musical score.

496
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:39.599
Yeah, yeah.

497
00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:41.519
They should have had him back more often, I think.

498
00:33:41.579 --> 00:33:43.319
Yeah, he's good then.

499
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.180
I think this was good.

500
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:47.759
Oh, here she is.

501
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:49.680
Yeah, see, I really want...

502
00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:51.000
See, I really want a tough woman in this.

503
00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:54.839
Actually, maybe we should have been 1st season TNG.

504
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:56.400
We going to have Tasha Yar, didn't we?

505
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.220
Yeah, so this is a big scene though, isn't it?

506
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.279
Oh, Chekhov gets his robots.

507
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:05.940
Do you know what, though?

508
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.319
He's such a bloody ledge.

509
00:34:07.380 --> 00:34:08.519
Every planet he goes on.

510
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:10.260
He's trying to cop off for somebody.

511
00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:14.280
Seriously, even in the dark recesses of Kirk's mind here.

512
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.719
He's still trying to get off on somebody.

513
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:17.400
That's the idea, isn't it?

514
00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:18.539
Isn't this all in Kirk's head?

515
00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:21.059
No, I don't think so.

516
00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:22.619
Is this actually on the planet?

517
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.460
They say in the last scene, don't they?

518
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:27.960
None of it, none of it happened.

519
00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:30.900
Well, yeah, I'm not sure about that.

520
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.219
Like, they say that Chekhov was up on the bridge the whole time.

521
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.639
Because you know what this feels like, though?

522
00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:40.019
This does feel like a holiday episode.

523
00:34:40.199 --> 00:35:00.840
Yeah, we see, I think that the holodeck exists to give a more serious, sensible explanation for why we're going to have a story set in, you know, why we have a piece of the action or what's that one where it's ancient Rome, you know?

524
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:02.940
Is that requiem for you?

525
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:05.159
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:06.239
Really terrible.

527
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:10.320
Oh, the one or the one with Rome where it's a TV studio.

528
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:15.360
It's literally being filmed and it's all part of like the political gender of the planet.

529
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:16.679
The gladiatorial games.

530
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.719
Yeah, the bread and circuses.

531
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:19.980
Yeah, that one.

532
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:21.059
Yeah, yeah.

533
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:25.079
And so what they do is they say, well, we can have Westerns or whatever.

534
00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:27.719
We've got the holodeck and so we've got a reason to do it.

535
00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:29.219
But that's what happens.

536
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.400
You get Fairhaven and things like that. you know, it goes to such an extreme.

537
00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:36.179
It's like Deep Space 9 definitely does it.

538
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:41.639
I mean, Deep Space 9 does use the holodeck to explore different genres.

539
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:43.199
I know, but come on.

540
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:46.019
Oh, man, Bashir, butter being, butter bang.

541
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.820
No, they're great. does it well.

542
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.719
That's the difference.

543
00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:49.800
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

544
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:51.360
Unlike Fairhaven.

545
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:55.440
I'm sure there's a terrible DS9 holiday episode.

546
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:56.400
I just can't think of any.

547
00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:02.159
Like, look, it's like, even uses a holiday in, like, it's only a paper moon, doesn't it, to explore PTSD?

548
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:02.880
things like that.

549
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:04.079
Yeah.

550
00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:14.760
Well, they do what Voyager does, which is they have a holiday program that's running all the time and they go there and visit and it's their bar, you know, it's so boring in a way.

551
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.639
TOS is just like, oh, well, we're just going to wear stuff happening.

552
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:19.079
And it's just happening, you know.

553
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:21.599
We don't need some boring technology to give an excuse.

554
00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:36.780
Well, it's amazing how real the dialogue and the actors make this environment when it's so patently fake, where it's so absolutely leaning into the artifice of being a studio set.

555
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:42.420
That shot there of the man against the red sky and the 2 coming behind.

556
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.059
That is terrifically directed.

557
00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:48.059
He's good, this guy.

558
00:36:48.119 --> 00:36:50.159
So he just goes to show them.

559
00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:53.519
Within the Fred, was his name, Freiberger?

560
00:36:53.579 --> 00:37:05.460
Freiburger, uh, series 3, with the reduced budget, if they had had the imagination and the creativity, We didn't have to have a box brain every other week.

561
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.920
It could have been a spectra of the gun, you know.

562
00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:09.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

563
00:37:09.659 --> 00:37:15.059
But then let's be honest, you know, very quickly talking about Doctor Who again. they did that all the time.

564
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.039
No money, lots of imagination.

565
00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:17.820
That's right.

566
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:22.860
I think it was the fact that the goodwill of the network was gone.

567
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:29.940
And I don't think there was anybody casting a decent eye over the writing.

568
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:33.119
Look at that shot that we went to the ad break on.

569
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:45.300
Where they're all tiny in the distance all sort of huddled up and there's like the dark figures of the men much, much bigger in the front of the frame.

570
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:46.320
It's so well done.

571
00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:53.940
And the 3 shot of the, of, of them just looking completely impassive with their moustaches.

572
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.340
That's his that's his race of stakes.

573
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:57.719
So do we think Chekhov is dead?

574
00:37:57.780 --> 00:37:59.699
No, I don't think we do.

575
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:06.239
And I was wondering what effect that has, was it a good idea or not?

576
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:09.539
Because I don't think we think that Chekhov is dead.

577
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:11.699
And...

578
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:22.679
I'm assuming at the time, Chekhov, like, landed well with the audience because they wouldn't be saying, well, we need to give him more to do if they were getting bad feedback about, you know...

579
00:38:22.739 --> 00:38:29.460
They're not going to do a skin of evil and kill one of the regulars early on in an episode.

580
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:30.900
That's just not going to happen.

581
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.019
And so that means that we know.

582
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:36.420
I mean, we know that they're going to be okay.

583
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:40.739
Like the tension isn't, are they all going to be killed on this planet or not, is it?

584
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.760
You remember that episode where McCoy gets a life sentence at the beginning that he's going to die?

585
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:50.820
He's going to die imminently of this disease and he's like, oh, Jim, you know, I only got a week to live.

586
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:53.820
And then, you know, and the whole episode is about his mortality.

587
00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:55.860
And at the end, it's like, oh, there's a cure.

588
00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:56.760
Oh, thanks.

589
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:02.639
Yeah, I don't think mortality is much of a thing, is it?

590
00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:05.099
I mean, you could take someone's brain out of their head and they still survive.

591
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:06.780
They're better next week.

592
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:08.159
They're fine by the end of the episode.

593
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:19.139
I think that this scene is terrifically good, and it's McCoy being super racist about, I find this a bit troubling, you know?

594
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:25.260
No, I mean, but it's the thing with they forget half human.

595
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:40.860
And then Troy is abashed and realises what an asshole has been because even though Spock doesn't, and you can see, it's so subtle from Nemoy's performance, but you can see that he's feeling it.

596
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.699
Even despite that impassivity that he has.

597
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:45.659
I think he's really good.

598
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.760
I posted you before.

599
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:56.219
I really like the chemistry between Deforest Kelly and the Nemoy, and I think it's one of the best Star Trek pairings.

600
00:39:56.219 --> 00:40:03.599
And it's, you know, why in all the other shows, They say, Tuvok, Cornelix, it's this shows Bones and Spock, you know.

601
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.320
Yeah.

602
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:06.900
And they've never successfully replicated it, have they?

603
00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:09.840
Oh, down Quark?

604
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:11.820
I think that works brilliant.

605
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:16.500
It's quite different, but it's a contentious relationship that you buy into and love.

606
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:17.820
Yeah.

607
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:35.760
But I mean here, that central, we talked about this before, the central 3 where you've got someone for whom emotion is important, and someone who is trying to work without emotional work around their emotions, and then you've got a guiding principle that has to adjudicate between them.

608
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:37.800
I think what's different, isn't it here?

609
00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:43.739
Is the relationship, it's given such prominence because they are 2 of the 3 main characters in this.

610
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:44.940
Whereas in all the other shows.

611
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:46.500
It's an ensemble piece.

612
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:47.340
They're ensembles.

613
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:53.820
Yeah, they come together every now and again, whereas they, you know, there's a bones and spock scene in pretty much every episode.

614
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:54.420
Yeah.

615
00:40:54.420 --> 00:40:56.699
They are racist to varying degrees.

616
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:58.320
Yeah, that's right.

617
00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:00.719
Sometimes it really bothers me though.

618
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:11.039
It really, and I'm just like, And I know it's a, it's a, it's a product of the time and I'm not going to go down that route, but, It wouldn't happen now.

619
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:12.719
Yeah, you wouldn't like those scenes now.

620
00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:13.559
No.

621
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:22.139
Yeah, we wouldn't be expected to retain sympathy for McCoy for a character who behaved like McCoy or spoke like McCoy.

622
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:28.079
Even of one of the aliens. sort of an outwardly villainous character like Giorgio in...

623
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:29.400
Discovery.

624
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:32.639
She doesn't really say racist things, does she?

625
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:36.059
She's, well, she did eat that Kelpian.

626
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.219
Well, that's just very good taste, is it?

627
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.139
Nice bechamel sauce.

628
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:41.519
Lightfall.

629
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:48.420
Yeah, now here's another one of these ugly guest stars and good god the sheriff is rough looking, isn't he?

630
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:50.460
He's up against.

631
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:51.780
William Shatneau's looking very pretty.

632
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

633
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:54.300
I like that.

634
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:55.500
They've got the wind machine going.

635
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:58.800
They actually blowing leaves, leaves from the studio as well, you know.

636
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:05.940
Well, I think I do think it is good, though, that they play Chekhov's death.

637
00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:06.960
For real.

638
00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:07.320
Yeah.

639
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:15.000
You know, like, like, I'm convinced they think he's real, even though we kind of know, well, this is a weird episode, so he's got a pop out of nowhere at the end.

640
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:15.900
Yeah.

641
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:17.639
Yeah, look at this guy.

642
00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:40.860
It's so good because this is the clearest explanation of how problems are solved in this in the world here, you know, that you've got the sheriff saying you should shoot these people dead because we're sick of them.

643
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:44.760
And everyone would think that was okay and I wouldn't stand in your way.

644
00:42:44.820 --> 00:42:53.340
Is there anything more delightful than seeing William Shatner downcast, punching his fists, looking like he's going to cry and getting all it emotional?

645
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:54.480
It's just wonderful.

646
00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:57.300
I mean, I can't hear him, but it's just...

647
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:57.900
Yeah, yeah.

648
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:12.059
I mean, it does go to an extreme because in the one with the children when the children shall lead, Kurt thinks he's going mad and all of a sudden he's in like the turbo lifting, he's like smashing walls and going, I'm losing my mind, you know, like, and it's all a bit much.

649
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:14.699
But uh, oh, the smoke bomb.

650
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:22.860
Have I missed a bit where Scotty inhales the entire smoke, but I mean, I think just being that close to all that smoke would knock you out a little bit.

651
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:25.980
Yeah, yeah, no, because it's not real.

652
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:27.960
The laws of chemistry don't apply.

653
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:43.199
And it's funny because the world is so artificial and they take it so seriously, that they're actually shocked by the fact that these chemicals that they've mixed up don't behave right.

654
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:47.519
You know, the laws of physics and chemistry don't apply in this world.

655
00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:49.260
So it's a strange place.

656
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:53.159
It's actually the TV equivalent of a stage play, isn't it?

657
00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:57.239
I like, you know, the audience in a theatre.

658
00:43:57.300 --> 00:44:03.599
If the actors are compelling enough, you literally forget you're in a theatre and you're just in the story.

659
00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:09.420
I don't know what Scotty is saying right now, but he looks very pleased for himself.

660
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:16.380
I do like the fact that they are trying to use the conventions of the genre to find the solution.

661
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:17.340
He goes, doesn't he?

662
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.900
what have we got here that we can use that prevents us from being violent, you know?

663
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:22.679
Yeah.

664
00:44:22.739 --> 00:44:23.519
Yeah.

665
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:29.400
And that's like all the way through that they want to negotiate.

666
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:30.840
They don't want to find.

667
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:37.260
Like there's never a moment until the end, you know, where we see them tempted to do the gunfight.

668
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.500
That looks like the warp core breach drink, the cork serves.

669
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:43.679
All that smoke...

670
00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:50.880
It's like the Sergeant Benton. yeah, I don't mind.

671
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:52.980
I'll just I'll inhale all the smoke.

672
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:57.119
Bless him.

673
00:44:57.179 --> 00:44:59.760
He's really getting into it too.

674
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:03.719
So ridiculous.

675
00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:07.559
Yep, it's not working. like.

676
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:10.679
Yeah.

677
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.800
He's going, look, no dizziness, no sweaty.

678
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:16.260
No, no palpitations like, yeah.

679
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:18.420
I'm clearly fine.

680
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.079
You know.

681
00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:20.880
Yeah, yeah.

682
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:29.340
So we are reaching the point then where they are coming to the inescapable conclusion that they may have to use violence.

683
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:30.659
They have to fight.

684
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:31.320
Yeah.

685
00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:33.480
Yeah, that they have to fight the Clans.

686
00:45:33.539 --> 00:45:34.079
They just have to.

687
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:36.900
I mean, the Earps, I get them all mixed up.

688
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:41.400
I think it's interesting because, like, Chatner plays it like that is a genuine conflict.

689
00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:46.260
Like, like he, he is a, uh, he is better than that, but he's got to do it.

690
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:48.780
You know, that's quite an ask of an actor.

691
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:51.239
Oh, that whopping great close-up on that clock.

692
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.440
Hangs.

693
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.000
Spended in the air.

694
00:45:54.059 --> 00:45:55.440
It's so great.

695
00:45:55.559 --> 00:45:57.059
Look at the picture as well.

696
00:45:57.059 --> 00:45:57.960
Is it a picture?

697
00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:59.940
Yeah, the picture is just hanging in the air as well.

698
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:01.559
That's amazing.

699
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:02.579
Yeah.

700
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:03.420
Oh, here we go.

701
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:05.159
Zoom, zoom, new location.

702
00:46:05.219 --> 00:46:06.059
Yeah.

703
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:09.360
This sequence now in the okay corral.

704
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:12.659
I thought this was really well directed. and they're throwing everything at it now.

705
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:14.219
The sky's practically black.

706
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.440
The wind machine's going, there's leaves everywhere.

707
00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:17.519
Yep.

708
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:19.679
Oh, Shatner's hairs all over the place.

709
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:22.380
And, you know, I'm going to tell you something that's going to stun you rigid.

710
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:24.059
The camera moves.

711
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:27.119
I love it when that happens.

712
00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:28.920
Oh, so hang on.

713
00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:29.760
Oh, lightning?

714
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:37.380
Is it is it down on all of them or does Kirk have to be the one who chooses to fight or not?

715
00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:39.719
Yeah, I don't know.

716
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:45.300
Um, because they get it from Kirk's mind, don't they?

717
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:51.420
So they clearly have decided that we are a violent race because this is his background.

718
00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.639
Like they say, it's his cultural background.

719
00:46:53.699 --> 00:46:55.860
I mean, it's McCoys as well, isn't it?

720
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:59.159
But, um, Or is McCoy from Canada?

721
00:46:59.219 --> 00:46:59.880
I don't know.

722
00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:04.860
I mean, I don't think there's any, we're under any illusion that Kirk doesn't think he's the lead in his own story.

723
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:07.559
So they're like, okay, well, it's clearly him then.

724
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:09.780
Yeah.

725
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:15.659
And this...

726
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:16.079
Sorry.

727
00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:20.159
Well, I think this solution is really strange.

728
00:47:20.340 --> 00:47:22.860
And I kind of like it.

729
00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:25.980
And what's the solution?

730
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:28.500
How do they not get involved in the fight?

731
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.380
They deny the reality of the fight.

732
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:38.159
I don't know if that's really practical in a, you know, in the real world or whatever, but so you know what this is then, don't you?

733
00:47:38.219 --> 00:47:39.780
This is like the precursor to move along home.

734
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:42.360
They were never in any real danger all along.

735
00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:43.679
No, turns out.

736
00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:49.739
And in fact, you know, Chiros is exactly a shorter show where they'd be standing around going, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, you know.

737
00:47:49.739 --> 00:47:53.099
We all thought we were going to die and use violence, you know.

738
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:56.760
Oh, dear.

739
00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:58.619
There's a lot of episodes that end like that, you know.

740
00:47:58.679 --> 00:47:59.639
Yeah.

741
00:47:59.699 --> 00:48:07.980
And the music goes, Do you know what?

742
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:09.539
I think doing this for you, right?

743
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:12.780
I'm getting far more of a love for the original series than I ever had before.

744
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:20.039
Yeah, I think like even the bad one that we did was sort of fun.

745
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:22.980
Like, you know, that was so bad.

746
00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:24.539
It circled around, it was magnificent.

747
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:26.400
No, I don't agree with that.

748
00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:30.900
I think it was just very bad, but it was enjoyable to watch.

749
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:32.099
Brain his brain.

750
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.059
What is brain?

751
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.079
What his brain?

752
00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:37.800
But no, I just...

753
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:43.739
It's really interesting jumping about the entirety of Star Trek and I figured it would be.

754
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:46.199
Well, I don't think I've ever done this.

755
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:51.480
I did it for my review website, but I don't remember done this and discussed it like this.

756
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:52.980
Yeah.

757
00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:55.199
It really highlights the strengths.

758
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:58.380
And the weaknesses. of each era.

759
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:05.039
And TOS is one of TOS's massive strengths is it's just its fucking ability to just go for it.

760
00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:05.820
You know?

761
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.639
Which 90s Treks doesn't.

762
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:09.960
No.

763
00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:16.860
I think too, it benefits from getting the opportunity to do things for the 1st time.

764
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:23.039
And, you know, this whole environment was a throwaway gag in lower decks.

765
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:40.619
And lower decks, one of the jokes that happens in lower decks all the time is, you know, crew members are always brought back from the dead and his 8 possible reasons or, or this is the reason why Boimler has a girlfriend and he has 15 possible reasons from previous episodes.

766
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:48.239
And so this sort of disbelieving an illusory environment where that happens just all the time.

767
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:49.320
It happened.

768
00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:59.219
It happened in the episode of Picard that aired most recently where 7 has to work out whether she's in a real environment or not.

769
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:04.320
And so we've seen it over and over and over again, but not by this point.

770
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:16.559
And so they, they can properly kind of just let the concept breathe because it...

771
00:50:16.619 --> 00:50:19.500
The extra time is a good thing, you know, that they...

772
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:27.059
I just want to point out, because I don't think I'm going to say it's too often in original track, just how spectacularly directed all this is.

773
00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:33.780
You've got a tight shot here on McCoy and Spock spotlit from above.

774
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:34.800
Very dramatic.

775
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:37.920
You've got the villains coming through.

776
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:40.860
There's lightning striking their faces.

777
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:46.260
All of the backdrop is being lit up and it's like something out of a like a horror movie.

778
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:54.780
It's, it's, properly really carefully choreographed who that shot is there so that they're all visible in it as they walk abreast.

779
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.460
It's so good.

780
00:50:56.519 --> 00:51:02.340
You said something in when we were having a wonderful discussion about the Beaumar last week in the Raven.

781
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.199
You said that'll do.

782
00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:07.559
There's no that'll do, Inspector of the Gun.

783
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:09.480
It's like, it's like, you know what?

784
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:10.500
We ain't got much money.

785
00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:12.300
Yeah, mate, this look as good as we can. you know?

786
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.000
That's a good director. need to find out who that was.

787
00:51:15.539 --> 00:51:17.760
Yeah, see what else they did.

788
00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:28.079
And you know, like, a story that promises an exciting climax needs to deliver it.

789
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:30.059
And this thing, and this does, you know?

790
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:30.780
Yeah.

791
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:33.840
Yeah, the whole thing's a countdown, isn't it, to 5 p.m.

792
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:36.420
We know that they're going to be killed later on.

793
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:41.760
I think that this would have given me nightmares as a child.

794
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:47.039
I think the people who told me that watching original series would give you nightmares, that was all there was back then.

795
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:51.960
The alien looks like a big green penis with glowing eyes.

796
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:56.159
I mean, my life may have turned out quite differently if I watched this as a child.

797
00:51:59.219 --> 00:52:08.880
And that, like, that's properly scary, again, with the bit of wood that's behind them. getting all the bullet holes in it while they're standing in front of it.

798
00:52:08.940 --> 00:52:16.079
It's such a well staged shot. you know, more shots of the, you know, 4 characters on each side.

799
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:17.699
Yeah, staggered in a line.

800
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:19.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah. positioned, you know?

801
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:22.019
It's really awfully done.

802
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:22.920
Look at Kirk.

803
00:52:22.980 --> 00:52:25.199
No one fights like Kirk, I'm telling you.

804
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:28.619
He's standing there like a wrestler, you know?

805
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:33.059
He's probably punching him like a nutter.

806
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:37.019
The bit at the beginning where he just leaps up and kicks him in the chest.

807
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:39.960
Oh, never have done that, would he?

808
00:52:40.019 --> 00:52:42.480
Maybe Ry can't rock him either.

809
00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:45.659
I think he's supposed to be like the Kirkish action man, isn't he?

810
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:47.039
Yeah, 0 yeah, that was the idea.

811
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:53.639
And certainly Philippa Giorgio would obviously kick people in the chest. there wasn't as much violence there as I remember.

812
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:58.619
But I think I think what makes it so dramatic is all that all the lead up to it, you know?

813
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:05.159
Yeah, it's quite short, but and it does centre on that decision where he just puts the weapon down.

814
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.139
You know what?

815
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:13.500
They kind of missed a treat, though, because, like, they zoomed in on the okay corral and out on the medical device, the McCoy house.

816
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.460
Like they could have done something like the same shaped object in both.

817
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.699
Yeah, they would have been quite a kind of nice transition.

818
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:22.139
Oh, here we go.

819
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.960
She was so beautiful, but she wasn't real.

820
00:53:25.019 --> 00:53:26.219
Sorry, Chekov.

821
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:30.059
You're at home again in bed tonight, I'm afraid.

822
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:30.480
Sorry.

823
00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:32.579
Yeah, yeah. like Geordie.

824
00:53:32.940 --> 00:53:35.880
That's Ahura.

825
00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:38.400
I mean, Michelle Nichols must have been like, what is this?

826
00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:40.139
I'm in the 1st and the last scene and I see it.

827
00:53:40.260 --> 00:53:42.659
She wanted to leave, didn't she?

828
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:43.679
I remember reading that.

829
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:44.460
She won Italy.

830
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:45.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

831
00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:46.320
She was convinced by...

832
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:47.940
Martin Luther King?

833
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:52.500
Yeah, to say no, you know, you are in a prominent role in a TV show, sit in the future.

834
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.079
Like, whatever they make you do, do it, you know?

835
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:55.860
Yeah.

836
00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:58.739
Yeah.

837
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:00.539
It's that device that they look through.

838
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:04.860
It looks like, you know, you know, like those old things you used to have as a child.

839
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:06.059
A graph view master.

840
00:54:06.179 --> 00:54:12.300
Yeah, and it kind of like, you know, the new the new pitch comes in and you feel like you're in Venice or something like that one.

841
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:12.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:13.980
That's all it knows.

843
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:24.480
But it's quite, uh, it's quite a nice ending, uh, with, you know, Kirk having made 1st contact now with the, what they call the tellotions, tell actions?

844
00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:26.760
The, no, no, the...

845
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:28.139
Oh, Mel Coach.

846
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:30.659
Melk, something.

847
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:33.119
Mel cotions.

848
00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:35.099
Better than a fucking Beaumont, isn't it?

849
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:38.219
Thanks for having that buzzy catastrophe in it.

850
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:41.880
Oh, wait.

851
00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:45.719
You and me said we were going to measure everybody by the Beaumont now.

852
00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:49.619
Yeah, these are way better. much, much better.

853
00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:54.719
Even though it's just a papier mache haired, you know, projected against a Starfield.

854
00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:59.760
I think it looks really good I will celebrate the day we find the elegance worse than the Beau Mar, though.

855
00:54:59.820 --> 00:55:01.139
I don't think it'll ever happen.

856
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:06.360
But this sort of alien which Star Trek, like, has all the time.

857
00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:07.920
Original Trek has all the time.

858
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:10.619
You know, we never get that.

859
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:14.340
We just get various Americans with latex glued to their face.

860
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:17.280
And do you remember the Sheliac corporate?

861
00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:18.599
I think I mentioned them last week.

862
00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:19.860
What the hell was that?

863
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:25.860
So it was, it was like, it looked like a big black shape.

864
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:44.940
They were in transigent aliens and we weren't allowed through their space in a very early Star Trek, the Next Generation episode, and it was like a black figure in a black room with weird lighting and stuff, and that was a very sort of proper original series alien of a kind that then gets abandoned, I think.

865
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:47.219
I love, do you remember Nigelum?

866
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:52.019
From that 2nd season episode, where it's this weird sort of baby face.

867
00:55:52.139 --> 00:55:53.940
It's an extreme close-up.

868
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:54.300
Yeah.

869
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:56.639
That's very TOS, that, isn't it?

870
00:55:56.699 --> 00:55:57.539
Yeah, absolutely.

871
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:01.380
And before Berman came in and went, this is all a bit embarrassing.

872
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:03.119
The music's too dynamic.

873
00:56:03.179 --> 00:56:05.159
Can we just make this a bit Bayesia please?

874
00:56:05.699 --> 00:56:18.900
But so this conversation at the end where it's the conversation about wanting to kill that Kirk did want to kill, but he also didn't.

875
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:20.460
You say in that line and looking at the audience.

876
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:22.079
We overcame our violence.

877
00:56:22.139 --> 00:56:23.280
We're better than this.

878
00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:25.500
It's like an episode of Sabrina, a teenage witch.

879
00:56:26.460 --> 00:56:28.199
But that's good.

880
00:56:28.260 --> 00:56:30.420
I think that that is that's good.

881
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:37.500
This is not a Western, even though it has all sorts of features in common with Westerns as a show.

882
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:49.079
This is a show where they solve problems, not just by shooting at things, but by understanding them or rejecting violence or finding a better way.

883
00:56:49.139 --> 00:56:50.400
And I think that's awesome.

884
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:56.579
Well, like we have, okay, so we've done 3 episodes of Star Trek's on the Bounce now, uh, in all good things.

885
00:56:56.639 --> 00:57:02.940
We had the philosophical moment between Q and Picard in Primordia Earth, which didn't make any sense to us at all.

886
00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:05.639
We just felt like they were trying to give it more depth when it wasn't really there.

887
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:12.420
We had the moment between Janeway and 7 at the beginning where they're talking about the imagination creativity and all of that.

888
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:17.639
And here we have, you know, discussion on the the protocols of violence and whether we're better than that in the future.

889
00:57:17.699 --> 00:57:20.280
So which show's doing it better for you at the moment.

890
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:34.559
Well, I think that this episode is very basic and it is a very, very simple message of nonviolence, but it's a message that's being broadcast into a world that needs to hear it, I think.

891
00:57:34.739 --> 00:57:37.920
And so this is the concept, doesn't it?

892
00:57:37.980 --> 00:57:40.380
It builds the episode around the concert where the others.

893
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:45.539
It's just, you know, an anomaly and 7's backstory with a bit of philosophy thrown in.

894
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:51.780
What I do like is that Spock gives him a look when he says, you know, we're all a bit better than this in the future.

895
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.300
And Spock's got a very unconvinced look on his face.

896
00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:58.199
And walks away in silence just saying, oh, I don't think you are, you know.

897
00:57:58.380 --> 00:58:01.380
I thought that was quite a nice note to end it on.

898
00:58:01.860 --> 00:58:03.300
Yeah.

899
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:06.239
Well, I thought that was fantastic.

900
00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:08.460
It's very very enjoyable.

901
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:21.179
And I think it's worth remembering that even in Star Trek's darkest days and we've done a couple of season 7 TNGs recently. we're going to get around to a season one DS9 at some point.

902
00:58:21.300 --> 00:58:24.480
And, you know, we've dipped into early enterprise.

903
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:26.639
So there's still things of merit.

904
00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:27.239
Yeah.

905
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:27.960
Oh for sure.

906
00:58:31.139 --> 00:58:43.860
All right, it's time for us to choose next week's episode, and so here I am at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and it's my turn to push the button.

907
00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:49.739
Can I ask which shows you are including an excluding?

908
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:57.900
I am including all of them. because I'm really tired and can't think of a good reason to exclude any.

909
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:06.000
And because just now we kind of scrolled back through the website and I think we've been doing a wide range of things.

910
00:59:06.059 --> 00:59:06.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

911
00:59:07.019 --> 00:59:14.940
The only thing is, is when we put everything into the randomiser, it absolutely favours 90s trek.

912
00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:16.320
Nice trek, because there's so much of it.

913
00:59:16.380 --> 00:59:17.519
There's so many bloody episodes.

914
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:18.420
Yeah.

915
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:19.380
But that's all right.

916
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:19.980
That's all right.

917
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:23.820
We can we can correct for that if we come up with things.

918
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:34.500
But I think that when we did the Raven last week as a just standard average episode of 90s Trek, there was still a lot of fun to be had.

919
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.920
So I am willing to go anywhere.

920
00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:39.059
I think.

921
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:40.860
I have heard this rumour, yes.

922
00:59:41.099 --> 00:59:42.840
All right.

923
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:43.380
Okay.

924
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:44.460
I'm going to press a button.

925
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:45.599
Go for it.

926
00:59:45.659 --> 00:59:49.380
Oh, okay, I've started with the lower decks episode.

927
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:50.280
Oh, go on.

928
00:59:50.340 --> 00:59:53.099
Yeah, it's the spy humungous.

929
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:56.699
From series two, series two, episode six.

930
00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:59.039
And it's a Pac-Lad episode.

931
00:59:59.699 --> 01:00:08.400
Well, I mean, I haven't seen that one, and there's very few very, like, 0 no, I hadn't seen that Discovery episode the other week, haven't I?

932
01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:10.079
I'm a terrible fan, me.

933
01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:15.599
Well, that one's down to you because I really don't know much about series 2 of Lower Decks.

934
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:17.639
I may it's good.

935
01:00:17.699 --> 01:00:18.960
Lower decks is always good.

936
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:22.920
It is properly funny and the pack leads are a great, big, bad.

937
01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:25.980
But I feel there's a upcoming anyway.

938
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:33.960
But I just don't want this process to be over, so I am going to, well, again for like literally no reason.

939
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:36.300
Just because we love pressing the bottom.

940
01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:38.280
That's it.

941
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:40.679
I get one go. pressing the button now, is that fair?

942
01:00:40.739 --> 01:00:42.179
No, I'm going to try it.

943
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:43.260
Well, you did 5 the other week.

944
01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:45.000
We were going for all those short treks.

945
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:50.280
Okay, this is Star Trek Voyager.

946
01:00:50.340 --> 01:00:55.079
Season six, episode six, Riddles.

947
01:00:55.139 --> 01:00:56.579
Oh my god.

948
01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:58.440
That's the episode I was telling you about the other week.

949
01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:03.300
What, you know, I said 7 of 9 and Neelix were talking about eating food.

950
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:06.179
And there was a whole episode of Chewbok learning how to be a human again.

951
01:01:06.539 --> 01:01:09.840
It's really awful and there's loads of e-bix in here.

952
01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:10.500
Push again.

953
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:11.280
Okay.

954
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:21.000
Okay, this is this is also Star Trek Voyager, and it's part one of a two-part story, I think.

955
01:01:22.500 --> 01:01:25.079
So we would have to do both parts.

956
01:01:25.139 --> 01:01:25.920
Of course.

957
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:27.239
That's our rule.

958
01:01:27.300 --> 01:01:30.360
It's the killing game from season four.

959
01:01:30.539 --> 01:01:32.219
Wowsers.

960
01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:34.500
That's the one in not, see, jump.

961
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:36.360
No, we were talking about it the other week.

962
01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:38.940
Oh, man, that would be fun to do.

963
01:01:38.940 --> 01:01:41.400
Because it's terrible in lots of ways.

964
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:44.579
But it's absolutely bloody brilliant in lots of ways as well.

965
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:45.719
Yeah.

966
01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:46.440
All right.

967
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:51.360
Well, we've done a few 2 parters lately and I'm absolutely up for another one. do you reckon?

968
01:01:51.420 --> 01:01:55.260
Well, it's one of those wonderful episodes where we get to see all the regulars in different roles.

969
01:01:55.380 --> 01:01:56.760
Yeah, yeah.

970
01:01:56.760 --> 01:02:07.079
Jane Way, the head of this club and the head of the resistance and she has cracking rows with 7 in this and you can absolutely see that crackling tension between them.

971
01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:08.340
Oh, brilliant.

972
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:09.539
All right, let's do that then.

973
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:11.039
I'm there for.

974
01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:24.360
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

975
01:02:24.420 --> 01:02:31.079
You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

976
01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:36.539
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam.

977
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:42.000
This episode was recorded on the 12th of March 2020 and released on the 18th of March.

978
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:47.159
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, the killing game.