Hey, Joe. Hi.
We decided last episode that we would do a story from your
favourite Star Trek series, which is Deep Space Nine.
And we randomly selected.
Series three, episode three, the House of Quark.
I think we might be stretching the term randomly selected there
because we have rolled 5 or 6 times.
Yeah, I think it was five, you know.
Yeah.
But we did, we landed on what I think is, it's not, it's not like
one of the greats, but it's a very good episode of DS9.
Certainly, a very good one to start with.
This is a 1st for someone who's pretty important to the history of
deep space 9, isn't it?
Kind of.
It's, it's, So series 3 is where Ron Moore skips over into DS9 and
has a profound impact on the show, like going forward.
Um, he's involved in the search 2 parter, which kicks off the
season.
I think he co-writes the 2nd episode, but this is his 1st solo
script for DS9, and it's kind of his signature move because it's a
Klingon episode, which was absolutely his wheelhouse in Next
Generation, and would go on to be, you know, something that he
would do a lot in DS9 as well.
All right, so I'll have things to say about the relationship, I
think, between this story and Star Trek, the next generation's
Klingon arc, because I think it sort of riffs on that sort of
quite a lot.
Well, he does something, he does something hugely different with
this.
This is the 1st Klingon comedy.
Like Next Generation never went there.
Next Generation, the Klingon episodes were all very, you know, uh
like theatrical, very Shakespearean, like very like big game
changer episodes, weren't they?
Whereas this is a light slight character comedy that just happens
to go to Chronos in the last in the 2nd half.
That's a new look for the Klingons.
Yeah, we'll see.
I think that they are very similar to Ron Moore's Klingons in Star
Trek, the next generation, all sorts of fun ways, but we will get
into that when we watch the episode, which I think we might do
now.
I am more than ready to watch DS9?
I'm ready.
All right.
Okay.
So I'll count it in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Let's go.
Is there anything more comforting than starting an episode of Deep
Space 9 in Quarks?
Have a look at this look.
This is Morn gesticulating, doing a little gesture to Rom and
Quark saying, I'm in there.
I copped off.
And if you watch DS9 from beginning to end, right, there's so many
episodes that start with Morn, doing random things, like, and one
he's asleep on the promenade and things like that, it's such a
lovely running joke.
There's also kind of a running joke about him being hot, isn't
there?
I think Jadzia thinks he's cute.
It's those little wavy...
Little brishes coming out his chin, she says, yeah.
And Kira's like, Mourn?
Really?
He never shuts up as well.
You ever had a chat with him?
Oh, he never shuts up.
Did you notice, um, at the beginning of this episode, when we pan
away from Morn, the camera very slowly slides towards Quark and
Rom?
Yeah?
Now, I'm bringing this up, only because you and I had many
conversations in the past about the energetic camera work, shall
we say, in latter-day Star Trek. doesn't stop bloody moving and
I'll get, you know, I'm taking like vertigo sickness tablets just
to get through an episode.
This happens at the beginning and the end of this episode. at the
end of the bar and the camera slides in very, very slowly.
I hate to say it, but that sort of pedestrian pace of camera work
that is much more my bag when it comes to Star Trek.
So this is Les Landau, who is an absolute stalwart and has done
heaps of Star Trek, the next generation by now.
And yeah, it's like, you couldn't list all the Les Landau episodes
because you would be here till the end of time.
It directs an awful lot.
He's like an old hand at this now.
I think this is really, really terrific.
So there is a little thematic thing that happens here, which is
that Quark goes up to this guy is called something space name.
Kozak.
So he goes up to Kozak and slam something down on the bar and you
think he's going to go all Klingon on him.
You know, I can deal with Klingons.
And then immediately he starts kind of, you know, panicking and
stuff like that.
And this reaction is just romantic.
Look at rom.
You don't see, do you know what?
You don't see blood in Star Trek very often, you know, if you, I
don't know, if there's a book out there that would list facts, but
um, like, do you remember that battle at the end of the Way of the
Warrior?
There's only the tiniest bit of, there's corpses everywhere, but
very little blood.
So it's worth noting that.
It's not pink.
Of course, I know I'm skipping ahead a little bit ahead of the
titles, but of course, Quark finds an immediate way to exploit
this situation for financial.
For those of you who aren't watching at the same time, he's been
complaining that the Dominion threat has meant that no one is
coming to Deep Space 9 anymore.
And so he needs to make money in some way.
Isn't that nice, though, that we've had, so we had the search two
parter where we went to the founder's home planet.
We found out at the end of the last episode they were the head of
the Dominion.
So there's been a massive shift in the show.
And in this episode and throughout this season, there's, it's
quite gentle.
It's not done, it's done kind of a bit less subtly in 4 and five.
The Dominion is constantly mentioned.
In this episode, Quark talks about it there and then Keiko says in
one of those scenes, well, it just seems like everybody's
frightened of the Dominion these days, you know.
Things have changed. i.e. consequences are occurring in DS night
in a way that they never did with the next generation.
Yeah, yeah.
No, next generation is a procedural, whereas this is sort of more
serialised.
What do we think of these titles?
Oh, I mean, they're a bit laborious, aren't they?
I prefer it when they're revisited and you get the 2 guys flying
through space, you know, doing the upper pylons.
Welding the pylons.
Yeah.
I have to say, look, you know, Star Trek, both of the previous
Star Trek series, and I don't know about the animated series
because it's been a long time since I've watched it, have the
Enterprise kind of whizzing past really quickly.
And this, you know, it's a stationary place and it's also trying
to sell the idea that it's really distant that it's an outpost.
And so there's nothing in the background.
So what else are you going to do?
You just sort of pan slowly over the model.
But it is very stately.
Like the camera, you know, moves very graceful.
And the music is, you know, it's not the fastest paced music
you've ever heard in your life, is it?
I like it.
I mean, I like it, and I think it's a nice bit of music, but they
definitely give it a kick up the arse in the 2nd half of the
show.
Yeah.
Oh, Quark and Rob.
Okay.
Can we talk about Walk and Rob, please?
Because I think one of the unsung relationships.
Well, Quark and his family, I would say, are pretty unsung.
And let's not forget that Almond Shimmerman and Max Grodenchick
played Ferengi's in the next generation in like terrible
episodes.
Max Gronchick's in Captain's Holiday as this like dreadful.
Oh, yes.
Do you remember?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And walks in the 1st one with the...
The last outpost.
Yeah, I hate two.
It's so bad.
To have gone from there to here where they get to play this warm
lovely, slightly combative relationship.
Man, they've come on in leaps and bounds.
Obviously it's the writing that's improved as well.
I mean, in a sense, I think that they're a kind of sitcom duo
aren't they?
Like you know how Quark's going to react to any sort of given
thing.
And here there is a kind of character arc for him.
But he doesn't change too much.
You know, he changes a bit, but we make it very clear at the end
of the episode that he's the old quark as well.
But I think that's Robert, the point, isn't it?
And right to the end of the series.
Like at the end of the series, when the political landscape on
Fringenar has changed completely, and Rom is like the Nagus, Hawk's
just like, well, this bar will be like the last outpost of the old
for...
So he's still clinging on to his old voice.
Whereas rom goes on this enormous journey throughout the show. of
like finding his confidence, saying to his brother, no, I'm not
going to be, you know, your slave anymore.
I'm going to go find my own way, getting a job, getting a wife, and
then getting a planet.
You know, like, Look at, look at Julian's face.
Like Julian is so sceptical.
Julian is absolutely not buying any of cork shit at all.
And just the look on his face and this scene goes out and I think
it's him and Odo just kind of going, can you believe this guy?
It's really terrific.
Well, like, you know people like this.
I know people like this, bullshit all the time.
But just they tell the story so well, but you just want to listen
you know?
Just another look from Julian.
It's so good.
Um, yeah, well, because because Rom is kind of hopeless at
everything or hopeless at being a Ferengi.
As far as Quark's concerned, he's really terrible at everything.
And, of course, we discover that ROM is far, far more competent
and intelligent than Quark, don't we?
He's sort of technically competent in a way that Quark absolutely
isn't.
Alright.
And he achieves all those things that Quork never does.
He gets married to a beautiful woman.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He becomes the negative.
So that was Quark's long held dream for a long time.
Oh, okay, here's Keiko.
Now, look, we need to talk about Keiko, because I have a feeling
that the Keiko of the next generation was quite popular and they
moved her over here for a reason.
Now, I can still remember people doing the cat noise because you
know how she says, Niles, Niles, all the time. and because she's
so miserable.
In this show.
I...
I wonder about her.
So she's introducing data's day and that's the day of their
wedding.
And she is kind of a bit, you know, women be crazy.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, um, data doesn't understand her.
Miles doesn't understand her because she has a lady brain and she
you know, overreacts to things and stuff.
It's written like that though, but I think she plays it with a lot
of warmth in the next generation.
I think I do too. and I think she's sort of really intelligent as
well, but she isn't in it all that much.
I remember her giving birth on the in 10 forward in disaster
here.
Like, I wonder about this B plot, I have to say, because...
It's done for us, it's done for a specific reason.
Yeah, to write her out of the show for a bit.
That's what I thought.
And then I started doing a bit of reading about this and the main
reason they took her out was because they wanted to focus on the
Miles and Julian relationship without Keiko being, and I'm
thinking, oh, you could still do that and have her in there as
well.
Like, that's a very weird way of thinking.
So they removed her deliberately.
So then they, you know, they have this like bachelor pad and there
is lots of, as this season goes on, there's loads of stuff with
and it's glorious material.
So I kind of think they probably made a smart move.
Don't you like the fact, though, that she's not comfortable
there.
There's somebody saying, do you know what?
This is a miserable place and terrible things happen here and this
is no way for a family to be.
I quite like that.
Yeah, yeah.
I do think the B blood is sort of terribly thin and I do think
they should go.
He's really annoying in a way that like, I'll talk about it
later.
There's a scene coming up later, which I just think is
unbelievably miserable and incredibly annoying.
Is it when she makes her a lovely meal?
And then, yeah, they bone.
No, no that's okay.
And the next morning, he's like, right, well, I'm off to work and
he does that thing that they do in drama where they just hang out
at the door watching the other person and the other person's not
aware that they're watching them.
No, she's aware.
She's aware.
That's the worst thing about it will get there.
Okay, okay.
Oh, okay, okay.
Odo and Quark.
Just win-win across the series.
You can't go wrong with Odon Quark.
Do you think they're the 2 best actors in the regular cast, like
in the credited...
That's a toughie.
This is a strong cast.
Yeah, I think.
So you tentially.
Oberjois was in Benson, and I actually remember that when I was a
kid, and that's a sitcom.
And I don't know what, um, what else Armond Shimmerman did before
this.
He was doing a Buffy concurrent with this, you know?
So he was doing this.
Buffy at the same time.
And let's not forget his wonderful principal Snyder.
Yeah, yeah.
And he's a sitcom character as well in a sense in Buffy too.
Like he's there to be funny.
And so those 2 are like a weird sitcom odd couple.
And I do think the fact, you know, this isn't a procedural, there's
no problem to solve that the crew has to solve.
It's entirely about, you know, Quark being a fish out of water
quite getting into scrapes by telling lies.
It's a classic sitcom plot.
But it's not doing the next gen thing, is it?
of habit of like working to a formula.
I think this story goes off on some weird angles that you don't
expect it to.
And that's very refreshing.
DS9 does not feel the need to tell stories entirely through the
eyes of the regulars because Quark's not really one of the
regulars, is he?
the guy that runs the bar.
Yeah, I know, but he's in the opening credits.
Like he's one of the kind of main characters in the ensemble.
But, I mean, Star Trek will have Star Trek the Next Generation
will have, you know, like a data episode or a Geordie episode or
whatever, but usually it's the usual space problem that they come
across and it, you know, the main character for this episode is
you know, crucial to the solution.
Here, there's no space problem.
In fact, it's quite shocking when we end up in Cisco's office a
bit later on and they're doing Starfleet shit, you know?
I don't think there's any techno babble in this episode.
And in fact, sort of season 3 onwards of GS9.
The Techno Battle just gets lesser and as you go along, I think
Star Trek fans get a bit confused watching some of it, like, well
where's the ships?
Where's the techno battle, you know?
This character drama.
What's this all about?
I need to just talk about this scene very quickly.
Yeah, yeah.
When Quark tries to say Kapla in a minute, it's so funny.
It's so good, isn't it?
But the comic performers of the Klingon. where he's like, I hope
you're not saying this. and then it just suddenly goes, on the
other hand, it's really, it's a very funny performance from this
guy.
What it's doing, I think, is it's doing what Ron Moore does in
Star Trek the Next Generation, which is he creates the Klingon
society, like Klingon society, really, doesn't he?
And, and what we discover is all the honour stuff is a facade and
it's being wielded by the characters in order to get, like for
political ends, let's say.
And so, you know, Worf accepts discommendation at the end of, what
series four?
No, at the, yeah, anyway, I can't remember.
Sins of the Father.
Yeah.
He's been discommended from the Klingon Empire and we'll get that
in a 2nd later.
But it's all done for a political purpose, right?
And you've got the jockeying for power and all of that.
Here.
We think that I assume that De Gore, De Gore.
Is that his name?
Yeah, was being honest, right?
that his family's honour was at stake.
And so Quark now has to say that he bested him in combat.
And then later on, we discovered that that's all bullshit, and the
purpose of it is so that he can take over.
I mean, that marvellously outrageous suggestion that a Klingon has
used what financial means to bring down a great house.
Yeah, but at the end of this.
And I don't want to even skip ahead, but Corp literally pulls that
facade down when he says, no, I'm here to be executed and fine, if
that's the case, do it, but I'm not going to fight you.
I'm not going to pretend, just kill me.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's the same thing, but done for a sort of comedy effect.
I mean, the, the, the Klingons in this episode go on about honour
but the rules they sort of bring to bear are kind of made up and
arbitrary.
They're sort of space rules and they're all being kind of wielded
in order to kind of gain political power.
All right, so we just soft focussed away.
Miles and Coco boning.
I don't want watch that.
Thank you very much. honestly. don't get me wrong.
Rosin Chow, it's very attractive.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she's... honestly.
I'm just a bit worried that they, she has to be doing bonsai.
They just kind of, I just kind of think, okay.
You really believe it, relationship, though, you know, I think
they have very good chemistry pair of them.
Well, this, so that thing where she reacts to him pulling away
from her with sort of dismay and she kind of stumbles a little
bit.
I think that's very good.
Then he's standing at the door and then she sits down just looking
miserable and going, I'm going to sit in this dark room for 8
hours while you're away.
And he's watching her.
And it's kind of like, can you not do a better job of pretending
to be happy at least?
so miserable.
What's wrong?
all the bloody stops for the nothing.
Don't you sit there and pretend to me you haven't done this.
I have absolutely...
I have absolutely been Keiko in this scene, all right?
Oh, my God.
Oh, Mary K. as grill car.
She is bloody brilliant in this.
The way she comes in here, and she's quite gentle, approaches Cork
and he thinks, okay, we have a civilised conversation and out
comes the knife, defend just out. hilarious.
And he tumbles over the bloody bar and all the latinum's flying
everywhere.
I think glasses break as well.
You watch. absolutely. died like a warrior.
I'm saying my picks, you know?
Clark's actually sort of kind of acting normally for a 2nd.
This is so clever, Israel.
She gets the knife.
It's just like, and why is she doing it?
He thinks she's getting revenge, but she is proving that he's not
going to have fought Kozak in battle because he's so pathetic, you
know.
So good.
Oh, you need to prove it.
Look at that.
But don't you think it's hilarious how the knife is like double
dramatic because the knife itself is dramatic.
And then all of a sudden these 2 forks either side come out.
Klingos, man, they love a bit of drama.
They do.
Just anyway, he pushes away the knife.
You could just get out of my face.
But what's lovely here, what Romaw does here with these 2
characters is obviously initially they can't bear each other.
They want to be around each other.
I want to get married to each other.
Um, It's that culture clash of bringing together these 2 races
very disparate races that learn from each other and learn each
other's strengths.
And I know that's old hat, but when it's done this confidently, who
cares?
And this well played.
Like, cork never, ever stops being a frank in this, does it?
He never, ever stops.
His weapon is his brain.
And he's constantly using that throughout to try and because now
from now on when he's on Kronos.
He's basically, you know, there's a there's a knife to his throat
at all times and he's got to try and duck away from that.
Well, I think the genius of this episode is mashing up Quark and
the Klingons.
So we've always seen the Klingons over against the Federation.
And now we get someone who seems kind of uniquely poorly suited to
dealing with them.
And, you know, right back from, what's the one in series 2 of Star
Trek, the Next Generation where Riker goes on board the on
exchange?
Matter of honour.
Matter of honour?
right.
And so the way that you deal with Klingons is by being violent.
You know, the Vulcan Hello. you hit you hit them 1st and so he's
he's uniquely unsuitable to deal with them.
And he operates in a different register because he is a sitcom
character because he's devious and silly and funny and they're
serious and ridiculous and kind of self-important.
Like, he shows them up.
He makes them look sillier.
In a way...
Well, in a way that next generation could never possibly afford to
do.
You know, they're too important.
If you'd have said to me after, like, redemption.
Oh yeah, you know, we're going to skip over the DS 9 now and do a
Klingon comedy.
I'd laugh in your face and say, how could you possibly do that?
And all you need to do is to plop quark in amongst a lot of
Klingons.
And it's suddenly very funny.
That bit later on where Quarks explaining like all the financial
ways that Kozak, no Kozak, the gore, has brought down Grouka's
house with, and Garan just sort of throws the thing aside and goes
enough.
I'm not listening to this anymore, you know?
This isn't how we do things here, you know?
So here's a very romantic moment because Quark is going to get
married.
He doesn't realise it.
There's a point to be made about Klingon wedding ceremonies here
because I know you remember the wedding of Dax and Wharf, which is
this overly elaborate theatrical affair with this crazy
metaphorical story of 2 hearts coming together and it's all very
open.
I think this is like the Klingon civil ceremony.
Well, you know, the cheap, the cheap ass Klingon ceremony, where
they... office wedding.
Knife to the throw, a quick kiss, you're married.
And that's actually Klingon for you may kiss the bribe there.
We just saw that.
Which is spits.
You don't often see characters in Star Trek spitting either.
Well, that's done deliberately, isn't it?
Because then that's contrasted with later when she really kisses
him, you know?
Yeah, it's kind of hard, actually.
I buy it.
We'll get there.
Well, I complained about that chased kiss in yesterday's
enterprise.
I thought this one was a bit hotter.
Yeah, I think it is harder than yesterday's surprising.
I'm not kissing your light, Nathan.
All right, we're back from the ad break.
And now look, here are people that aren't covered in latex
talking.
And it is kind of like the 1st time.
It's so weird.
This is like the 1st time it's a Star Trek episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're all in Starfleet uniforms.
You know, we saw Julian in the earlier scene and some other
Starfleet people in the background, you know, and we've had Keiko
and Miles, I guess.
But this, we're in an office talking space things, and we've got
pads in front of us and stuff, and we're, you know, this is what
the focus of the episode would be if it was Star Trek the Next
Generation.
Although, I love the fact that Kiro clearly misses the cues here.
She's like, well, I'm not going to letting the boys talk.
I'm working, you know. so good.
She's once seen and she manages to steal it.
She's spinning it off as she leaves.
Is it Nana or Nana?
I think it's Nana.
I don't know.
We'd better work it out.
We were doing this for a long time.
Oh, Brian, having the weird suggestion.
Well, we're going to give Keiko a cargo base, as you can turn it
into a garden.
I worked on the Enterprise, we're on DS9 now.
Yeah, I mean, she worked in the arboretum on the Enterprise.
Like, do you remember that set, though?
Oh, it was so bad.
It's terrible.
Yeah.
Although they could probably do with, you know, a bit of foliage
on DS9.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, tying up a little bit.
Turn the fucking lights up at some point.
I'm sorry, I'm going to argue this point.
Have you ever seen what time?
For the drama.
I like the movie lighting.
In fact, I was noticing it in the O'Briens quarters earlier on, you
know, the way that there's kind of everything seems to be lit
through grills and stuff like that.
It just makes it sort of slightly interesting, super impractical.
But it does make for interesting scenes.
Just like this.
Look at this soft Cisco with hair.
I mean, series 4 that, they completely revolutionise this
character, don't they?
And Avery Brook literally just jumps out of the closet with lots
of energy. able to look like how he wants to look, you know?
He's quite eccentric, Avery Brooks, isn't he?
Like he's Fabulously so...
Did you see that documentary where he's there?
and Shatner's trying to ask him.
Yeah, captains, isn't it?
And he's just playing like jazz.
He's going, no, I'm just going to play jazz.
He was amazing.
Good.
And I think he becomes just incredibly charming and sexy by the
end of this, but he is very restrained as well.
And this scene, I think, is, again, part of the tedious B plot.
Okay, back to the picture of Kronos.
I like the Matt work, though.
And I think they get better at doing it as they go along.
Cardassia and Bajor, particularly when they have like the, it's a
beautiful picture every time and they just, they move a few bits
don't they?
Water, waterfalls and things like that, just to make it feel as if
it's a moving image rather than a photograph.
I think, you know, they lent into this because it had gone down so
well in Star Trek the Next Generation.
I think they won Emmys and stuff for the design of the Klingon
home world in that.
The only time this appears in DS9, you know, weirdly enough
because the Klingons have a big role in DS9, but it's the only
time we go to Kronos.
Right.
In those robes, like, no, no, no.
Oh, and now look at Gauron.
And so Gowron is, when he 1st appears, he is so weird looking.
And it's not just the sort of bug eyes, but the teeth as well.
He's a little bit animalish, and of course, you know, Duras is a
known quantity and Gower on is just kind of weird and upsetting.
And so here he gets to be in a sitcom.
And he's very, very funny as well.
Did you say he's weird when he when he starts in the show?
He's weird throughout.
I mean, why the Warrior, when he's on that screen, a glory to your
heart.
That's right.
He is the most mad eccentric you are going to find in Star Trek.
And I think it's fabulous that he's the head of the Klingons, you
know?
I think I've seen him without makeup and he looks completely
unremarkable.
You have.
He is without makeup as the person who's counting the money in
bada bing bada bang.
And you can tell that's him because of the crazy eyes.
I do think it is just so strange.
How many scenes here have everyone in just hours and hours of
makeup?
It's uh, it's really very bizarre.
Michael, is it Michael Westmore that does the makeup?
that's right.
He must have been a busy man.
It's just, you know, for on Next Generation, there would be one or
2 people in the room for budgetary reasons and that's sort of
basically it.
There's actually a very cute story that Mary Adams tells that
before they started filming this, Almond Shimmer went up to her
and said, it is agonising being inside that makeup.
And if you need a moment, if you are, you know, if you're feeling
anxious about it all, because, you know, they did like 14 hour
days or something in that makeup, sweating themselves.
He said, just come and find me.
I'll help you.
And she said that going into other shows, because obviously this
is a guest part in, you know, an ensemble show, that there was
never that kind of consideration and that was one of the kindest
moment that she's had from another actor to come up to her like
before they started.
And Armin Shimmerman absolutely seems to be that man, if you see
him in interviews and things like that, you know. very thoughtful
very kind actor.
Yeah.
He's really good in this scene.
I think this scene is one of the best scenes in the episode and it
is because it's the kind of, you know, it's the moment where Quark
decides, no, I'm going to solve this problem myself, but in a sort
of Ferengi way.
You know, Grillk has got nothing.
I'm going to work with her.
I'm gonna kind of help her out.
And I think I think the way the 2 of them play it, you know
they're no longer antagonistic.
She's initially sort of suspicious and a bit revolted by him and
now the 2 of them are going to work together and I just think the
way the dynamic changes.
She can't quite get rid of her to stay because she's like, you
mean the Gora's been lying and scheming like a...
And it's like, yes, like a Ferengi.
Yeah, he's proud of it.
I really like that as well.
It's that, that, that, you know, yes, we are like that and I'm
absolutely happy that we're like that, you know.
Look what we can do.
We can bring down your entire house, you know, just by basically
fiddling the books.
I don't think I'm going to be bold and say I don't think Arman
Shimmerman ever gives a bad performance.
I think he is astonishingly good throughout this entire run.
He's given some pretty thankless kind of...
I mean, this is quite a good sitcom episode, but I know that a lot
of the Ferengi episodes are not particularly popular.
And we did roll profit and lace, I think, last time and rejected
it.
Well, you know, I've got a theory about that as well.
I think that the Ferengi episodes are unpopular in America, because
I've read a few American review sites where and Jammers reviews is
one, where they're really not popular at all, whereas in England, I
remember in a lot of magazines at the time, these were all really
quite popular.
And a lot of the Ferengi humour is very much like an English
sitcom.
Right.
It's pointing out the failings of society.
American sitcoms are all about, you know, like celebrating how
fabulous we are and overplaying jokes and walking in a room and
everyone's cheering and in it boring.
Whereas English sitcoms, think of things like one foot in the
grave and things like that, it's talking about like the darker
side of human nature.
And the Ferengi episodes lean into that.
And there's also like repeated sayings in Ferengi episodes that
that happens in English sitcoms as well.
I think I think depending on where your audience is. and what
they're used to watching.
Well, depending on how you feel about bringing this.
I really like them.
I think they're very stagey, very theatrical, but just very
witty.
Um, and because there's always great actors like Armand Shimmerman
Match Squad Chick, um, Aaron Eisenberg.
I mean, if you've got a witty script and you've got great actors
I'm there, you know, I think they're much better than people say.
I think too that as sort of science fiction fans, we tend to want
our shows not to be ridiculous.
Like we don't want them to take place in a ridiculous world.
And I kind of think that if you're watching Star Trek without
attitude.
You're going to be kind of constantly disappointed because we've
just had this whole episode where people with latex on their face
are kind of shouting at one another and stuff.
You know, the premise is inherently ridiculous, I think.
I wouldn't suggest that they watch lower decks then.
Well, that's it.
That's why I love lower decks as well, because lower decks
absolutely kind of makes the universe ridiculous.
Or leads into how ridiculous it is.
I know you as well.
I know you really like fun over the top stuff, which, you know, the
Ferengi episodes are.
When you and I were talking about like a top 10 list of Star Trek
episodes.
You are throwing out things like Bada Bing, Bada bang, and take me
out to the hollow suite, which, you know, are literally unique to
your list, I think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. just kind of leaning into the ones that have fun, you know
and do fun things with the characters.
But it's always nice because then the actors get to loosen up a
bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's always fun.
I mean, look at the end of better being better bang, for God's
sake, with Avery singing.
So tremendous.
To some people, though, that would be the Nadir on Star Trek, you
know.
No, I love that star.
It's beautiful.
Just awesome.
He should have met our forces in battle, she said.
Oh, dear, this blocking is so great.
I love it when characters talk to the back of each other's heads.
No one ever does that in that.
There is a lot of that in 90s track.
Unfortunately.
It's just where TV was at the time, though, wasn't it?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, it's standard.
And see, I really, really like this because she is really warming
to him.
He's starting to like her.
She's smiling and really like really warmly and genuinely as... when
you think she's coming in for a kiss.
Oh yeah.
I really am very grateful for all you've done, Quark.
That is why I'm going to let you take your hand off my thigh
instead of shattering every bone in your body.
Oh my god.
She smiles at the end of it and he laughs like she doesn't play it
as a threat at all.
Oh, good.
Let's go talk to the council.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They go off like a happily married couple.
It's so tremendous.
And look, he talks about column J.
So these people all have iPhones in this scene and they have Excel
on them and he's directing their attention to the figures in
column J.
It's so tremendously great.
There's just the look on Garon's face, like the sheer astonishment
you know?
He hurls his iPhone seeks to the floor.
It just goes to show that Robert O'Reilly is capable of doing like
really good comedy, you know, and they haven't lent into that
until this point.
Whereas this, I'm sorry, this, the gore, that's an entirely comic
performance from beginning to end, you know?
Yeah, yeah. because it's just giant and blustering and he's like a
big stupid Klingon, like in a ridiculous Klingon.
I think he's really terrific.
And he ends up sort of being the butter thing.
Do you know, there was there was actually no intention to bring
Garon over to DS 9.
Ron Moore insists. and there's a quote from Ira Bear saying that
he thinks that Ron Moore and Gowron. got a secret pact that
they're going to go everywhere together.
And then he says, well, they've never been seen together.
I think Ron might actually be Gal Rob.
Oh, okay.
Bringing in Rob.
So you need a new element now, don't you?
Because things are kind of starting to resolve, so you need a
complication.
Um, Oh, I love Rob so much.
And the scene in a 2nd where he's like, right, we're going to go.
Oh it's just been out where we're going to go.
We're gonna leave her to it.
And Grillka's like, um, he's like, yeah, what do I owe?
I don't know her anything like that.
And Rom's agreeing with him at every single point.
But the look on Rom's face is basically saying to Cork, you've got
to stay.
You're better than this, like help her out, you know?
I actually think it's also being played in that way by Shimmerman
too.
So he's sneaking off.
He hasn't learnt a valuable lesson about honour.
He sees his life, you know, under threat, and so he's going to
kind of disappear.
But, and he's explaining it here, to Grillka, and Grillka is
telling him to kind of piss off.
But as he talks about abandoning her and, you know, what does it
matter?
It's just one woman's house falling and you can sense him trying
to convince himself.
Like he's not, he isn't just straightforwardly saying, I'm bailing
here.
He is actually realising that it matters to him.
What happens to her?
Did you hear that insult?
How cutting?
All you've got, instead of a heart, is a piece of latter, and it's
a pretty small one at that. don't lean into that interpretation
but it's clearly in the script.
You know exactly what she's saying there.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so look, he's saying, all right, let's go.
Like, he's convincing himself to go.
And he's almost kind of goading ROM, who will say whatever, you
know, he thinks Quack wants to hear, like goading ROM into making
it okay for him to go.
Like, she's trying to make us feel guilty because he obviously
feels guilty.
It's terrific.
Max Grunging has this amazing way of looking totally dense with
nuance.
I don't know how he does it. terrific.
Yes, that look where he just sort of gives him side eye just to
check. whether he's gonna do the right thing or not.
Come on.
Are you really going to do this?
Oh, dear God.
And this is, this is my favourite scene of the whole pizza, the
climax, where Quark absolutely just refuses to use the ballet and
throws it aside straight away.
And you know if you give Almond Shimmerman, a scene where he's
basically going to bring down the Klingon empire and expose them.
He's absolutely going to nail it and he does.
There's Garon looking crazy.
Yeah, and so we think Quark was going to bail here.
Notice the difference in the way that he just strides into the
room whereas he was kind of, you know, he looked uncomfortable in
the robes, he looked like an idiot, and now he just kind of
strides in, and the camera loves him.
Look at that.
And I think as well, like, they're trying to sell you on the idea
that he's actually genuinely going to fight him, you know, which
makes the moment where he throws the bat lift more impactful.
I really like De Gore, son of whatever.
Like, the other Klingons play it like it's the worst possible
insult.
In the last scene, we had the worst insult you could say to a
Ferengi.
Now we've got the worst insult you can say to a Klingon.
All you need is someone to go.
I think we throw to a reaction of some of the assembled kind of
guest actors in Klingon makeup trying to look concerned.
It's awesome.
Yep, there he goes.
He's thrown it.
In fact, I'm sure they are.
The, the, the, the, is quoted as saying that he loved the script
because it allowed Quark to be heroic, but absolutely be himself.
Yeah.
And he doesn't get to do that very often, does he?
Like there's there's a bit later on in series 6 where he has to be
the one to help rescue them all so Rom can bring down the
minefield.
And and Rob's going to Cork, like, you know, you've got to do it.
The fate of the whole alpha quadrant is on your shoulders.
And he's like, well, boy, are they going to be disappointed?
You always know he's going to come good.
You just know.
Yeah, yeah, of course he is.
Of course he is.
Because he can't lose our sympathy.
But he, here it is.
It's the opposite of what Riker does in a matter of honour, which
is step up and start beating the crap out of them.
Do you think there's an assumption that people have watched that?
No, but I do think that I do think that it's a proper Ferengi way
of doing it.
He doesn't learn about Klingon culture so that he can operate on
their terms.
He learns about their culture and then is still completely himself
in the way that he brings it down.
So again, we've already established that an honourable death is
different from an accidental one.
And so that's the only option that he leaves de gore.
It's like you don't get to kill me in battle.
Uh, you'll just have to.
I'm not going to fight you.
You'll just have to murder me and obviously you won't get any
honour from that.
And so he's understood the rules of honour, but he doesn't kind of
play along.
But I think more people should do this. you know, point out.
I think Edgerie does this in series 7 where she says the whole
thing about Clinton Society is a massive facade and you basically
just murder each other when you murder your way into power, you
know, like more people need to say this to them.
Have a look at this.
So this is the discommendation scene that Warf undergoes in Star
Trek the Next Generation. see them there.
They're so bloody dramatic.
Arms up and alternating their backs on him, you know?
But it's this big giant moment, but instead it's done for this
sort of schlubby loser comedy character who's just been defeated
by Quark.
And Gowron's line of, you know, if you can tell me, you can stand
there and murder that pathetic little man.
It's so great.
I actually quite like how Garon kneels down so that they're at eye
level as well.
I think that's really great.
Well, and he brings him up, doesn't he, as well?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brings him up to his.
What I really like about this.
This is a very this is a very gentle comedy.
There are more obvious DS9 comedy, as you go, Arman Bashir, take
me out to the whole suite. things like that.
This is all rooted in character here.
It's not like some massive high concept comedy, is it, that they
would do later on.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's a classic sitcom in that, you know, he tells a lie that
gets out of control. he ends up in a situation that's uncongenial
to him.
He works out the rules and he gets out of it.
And yeah, so it's a standard plot. could literally be the pilot of
a sitcom, isn't it?
There are so many sitcoms where you have the odd couple coming
together and learning to navigate life.
And we get there for one episode, but with Mira K. Adams and Arman
and Shimmerman.
How wonderful.
Well, I think it's, I love this.
Where she hits him.
It's on him.
That's it.
That was a divorce.
Everything's so violent in Klingon society.
Oh, and this is the kiss.
Like that's so great.
And then she smiles gorgeously.
And you see, she she held onto his bottom lip a little bit there.
Oh, she got disentangled the teeth.
Deep got caught.
And then and then quite gives this, I've still got it, smile.
Have a look at what he does here.
Well, I mean, they revisit this, don't they?
They revisit this in series 5. lovingly rubbing the cheek that she
hit.
Oh, and this sequence at the end between Cork and Rom.
Oh no, we're not quite there yet.
It's KK O'Brien first.
Off you go to do your movies, Rosvin Chow.
Yeah, did she do movies?
What does she do?
I've no idea, but she has done an awful lot.
I've seen her turn up in like, I say bit parts, you know, 2 or 3
scenes in a lot of movies, you know, she's one, I think she's one
of those actresses who's never at work.
I think she is really great.
It is, you know, Uh, She is frequently absent from Deep Space 9
isn't she?
She is after this.
She comes back to that period where Kira's pregnant.
Oh yeah, okay.
With her baby.
Oh, yes, of course.
She's around for about half a season there and then after Kira has
the baby.
I think she's in 2 episodes after that and then that's all we
feel.
She kind of disappears.
Yeah, yeah.
She has like a one scene moment in the last episode just to remind
us all that she exists. and O'Brien has a family and all of this.
I do like this though.
I think and I think DS9 leans into this quite a bit of, um, this
does happen, doesn't it?
Like, like, people do go to work in other countries and things
like that and but families still take, and they find a way to work
around it and.
Yeah, it's not, okay, this subplot's not going to set anyone's
world on fire.
No, no.
And it is very sort of linear and straightforward.
I guess the best thing is, is Julian's thing earlier on where he
says you're giving her a hobby and she needs a job, to read proper
purpose.
She can't just be dicking around in a in a spare cargo bay.
And I kind of like that.
I, this subplot has a function and it fulfils that function and
that's to get her gone so they can explore that friendship between
Bashir and O'Brien.
There are plenty of B plots that are just there to kill time, you
know?
Yeah.
Thematically, it's got nothing to do with the main plot as well, I
guess.
But in season 3 of DS9, there are some, there are way better B
plots.
Like there's one episode where the entire B plot is Nog trying to
bribe Cisco to get him into Starfleet.
That is just gorgeous.
Yeah.
I love this.
See, Rom is a terrible Ferengi, because he says, you know, there's
more to life than money or something like that, which is great.
But, you know, we circle background to the respect thing, you know
that, that, Quark was kind of revelling in the story that he'd
killed the Klingon, not just because it got his customers to come
back, but because it made him look cool.
And it's the same with this.
You know, now he's got a story where he was genuinely heroic and
stood up to a scary Klingon or knelt down in front of him anyway.
So, it's one of these things where it's sort of circulate.
He is in the same position at the end as he was at the beginning.
He has been kind of changed by the experience, but not that much
and he's still going to be the same loveable sitcom character that
he is in every episode.
The interesting thing about these two, though, is that no matter
how badly Cork treats from, and even when he says, like, I want
you to tell me a story and it's like, well, fine, I'm going to
take it out of your paycheque, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
From loves him.
He just adores him.
And that never changes around, no matter how, and court got some
terrible things to him along the way.
And that leads us that beautifully.
I just think the 2 actors together are terrific.
Wasn't that fun?
That's a really fun.
It is really good.
And it's in exactly the right place in the season as well.
You know, we set up the threat and we have a big two-part event
and then we come back and just, you know, it's life on the station
and the crazy things that can, that Deep Space 9 can do.
I guess.
Do you remember what the other Ferengi episode is this season?
Uh, no, it's family business and that's in the last third.
It's the 1st one with Ishka.
Oh, okay.
She's dressed as a man or something?
Is that it?
Yeah, and it's almost in like the same position on the other end
of the season.
Right, right.
We kind of go a whole year without really catching up with them
that much.
I think this is a stronger episode, though, overall, I would say.
Yeah.
Why are you insisting that we do our Voyager episode for episode
three?
Well, I mean, we've done we've done next gen, we've done Deep
Space 9.
So the logical next step is to do Voyager.
And I think we said in our 1st episode that kind of 90s trek is
our one true love.
So I think we do need to do Voyager.
If we follow that pattern, you know where we're going next then
don't you?
Discovery.
No enterprise would be the next.
Oh my god, I've completely forgotten about enterprise.
Well, there's no rules.
We'll we'll come up with a different rationale next episode, I
reckon.
I am frothing at the mouth because I love pressing this button.
So you just tell me when to go.
Okay, so people at home, don't forget it's untitled Star Trek
Project.com slash randomiser and you can use it yourself.
We've only got Voyager selected, right?
Yeah, do yourself a favour.
You want this to work out well.
Don't just select voyager.
Okay.
Right.
Let's, you ready for this?
I'm ready.
Ooh, okay, so it's selected prototype from season two.
That's the one where Balanatorius activates a appallingly designed
robot and there's a great big robot Civil War occurring.
Remember this one?
I actually do.
Yeah, I do remember.
It's directed by Jonathan Frakes, that one.
That also could look good.
What do you think?
It doesn't look good.
And Jonathan Frakes actually famously criticised the design of the
robots and cut away from them as much as he could.
I think I'm going to press the button again.
Oh, okay.
Oh my.
Okay, season 6 is the Voyager conspiracy.
Oh my god.
Do you remember that one?
Yeah, it's terrible.
It's basically 7 of 9 talking non-support, Jerry Ryan.
No wonder she preferred doing Picard.
I telling you now.
All right, let's press again.
Oh, no.
I mean, this would be a good place to start because it's a really
dreadful episode.
Is it threshold?
and the gray from season three.
With the cube.
Holodeck one, Civil War.
Yeah. no that's upsetting.
Okay, I'll push it again.
Oh gosh.
I mean, I don't know how we could have got worse.
We're now in a Harry Kim episode in series 5 called The Disease.
Do you remember?
That's the one where he goes up to chain where and he's like, for
5 years, I have said, yes, ma'am, and no, ma'am, to everything you
say.
Oh, it's just awful.
Okay, let's press again.
Okay.
No, no, this is a good place to start, I think.
Lineage in season 7.
And it's the episode where Tom and Blana find out that they're
having a baby.
Oh, I think I remember this.
It's typical, but it's extremely good.
It's very well written and it's very well acted.
Okay.
All right.
Well, I think we go with that then.
Lineage.
Okay, and it's one of the few moments in season 7 that is actually
worth watching.
So hurrah for us.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 27th of September 2021 and
released on the 12th of November.
We'll see you next time for Voyages lineage.