WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-07-30 at 21:29:54

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we're back aboard Star Trek Voyager.

3
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It's season six, episode two, Survival Instinct, which 1st aired on the 29th of September, 1999.

4
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So I guess that's 2 weeks after the moon gets blown out of Earth's orbit.

5
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And this is not the 1st time we've mentioned survival instinct, because we have, of course, talked about just that brief shining moment in late Voyager, where it looked like we were going to get Ronald D. Moore doing stuff for the show.

6
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Get out the scouring paths.

7
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All right, because this was the golden period for me.

8
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Four episodes, um, equinox number two, survival instinct, Barges of Dead, Tinker Taylor, Doctor Spy.

9
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I watched the 4 of them back to back on the videos and was like, oh boy, voyages arrived.

10
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It's the one Star Trek show that's being made.

11
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Ronald Dumour's on board from Big Space 9.

12
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Happy days.

13
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Why do I keep going back to these things and the shine is taken off them a little bit.

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Like, I feel like this is a heavy duty scouring pad on this one because there's good stuff here and there is still good stuff here.

15
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But boy, it's a lot more flawed than I remember it being.

16
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So I had seen it before, and I remembered the premise, but I didn't remember it particularly well.

17
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And I actually thought that this was better than the general kind of, you know, middle of the road voyager.

18
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I thought it was good.

19
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I think I texted you this afternoon and said, I think this is a very good episode.

20
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I don't think it's well directed or well made.

21
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No, no.

22
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There are some really bad directorial choices.

23
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But you've only got to look at, what's his name?

24
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Terry Windell's credits.

25
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A dark frontier or side, don't they?

26
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They hardly stand out as the most visually arresting episodes of Voyager.

27
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And I think this did need that.

28
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And we'll talk about that when that turns up.

29
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But you have a really excellency, I think, between 7 and the doctor, who are 2 of the best actors on the show.

30
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The premise is interesting and it goes to the heart of who 70s as a character and shows us something new about her, which I think is really good.

31
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Ross Moore, right?

32
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To step in and actually, we know he was asking.

33
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Well, but Wyatt, is characters doing these things?

34
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It's why he got booted off. is because they were going, never mind why.

35
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All right?

36
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It's a fun idea that we're playing space wrestling or whatever it is, you know?

37
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although that is great.

38
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Never mind why he's fallen in love with that sports car.

39
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It's just fun.

40
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The other thing, too, is that there is, I think, a critique of how the show turned out at the beginning of this episode and that Ronald D. Moore has a much warmer, more expansive, more interesting idea about what Voyages approach should be.

41
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Fabulous, isn't it?

42
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Isn't it, right?

43
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It's really good. really properly fun.

44
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Yeah, it's not great.

45
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Just terrific.

46
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Yeah.

47
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What did you say, pre-hensile?

48
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So good.

49
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And I think the ending was really good.

50
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I think the 3 guest stars were fine.

51
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I thought they were great.

52
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There's some really heavy hitters there.

53
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They've all been in Star Trek before and some of them have been in it after.

54
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Um, and I found that final scene actually surprisingly moving.

55
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And there was a little while there where I thought, oh, this is all a bit too science fiction-y, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about all of this, but they did land it.

56
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It did go into a place where I knew what to feel about it where it was analogous enough to, you know, real life to feel like it, you know, like it was earned.

57
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I thought it was good.

58
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I just think the premise of uh, 7 of nine and that group of people, you know, crash landing on the planet, being disconnected, reasserting their individuality, and then her choosing to force them to lose that, and then dealing with the consequences of that in the present day.

59
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That's such a strong dramatic premise.

60
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And Jerry Ryan's there and she's strong enough to play all of this.

61
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My issue was, I didn't think those guest actors were particularly memorable, and they're all choosing because they're ex-Borg to sort of underplay the emotions.

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And so I wasn't feeling anything for those people.

63
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They were all just sort of whispering and being a bit clandestine and a bit sort of naturalistic.

64
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I was like, come on, play it up a bit.

65
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I want to see some emotions.

66
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See, I thought I thought that where they really landed was in that final scene because it was kind of like you're condemned to feeling each other's emotions all the time, kind of like a really dysfunctional polycule or something.

67
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You know, like it just seemed...

68
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That's how they do it now.

69
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Throuple.

70
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But like, I just didn't know how to feel about that.

71
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That's such a weird science fiction-y thing that I just don't know, is it a good thing?

72
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Is it a bad thing?

73
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Like, I don't know, they say it's a bad thing. like whatever.

74
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And, but you don't really kind of, you just have to take their word for it that it's bad.

75
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But at the very end, and I think particularly when Vaughan Armstrong, the kind of main guy, when he leaves, and then the other 2 are there, and they express that real moment of affection for one another, and it's just natural and normal, and now I know how they feel, like I've got some idea of, of the choice that's been imposed upon them again, but, you know, they're resigned, but they're not resentful.

76
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Like all of that stuff I just thought was really good and and like that landed for me, I think.

77
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More knows how to do that, right?

78
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This is the same riot that gave us rocks and shoals.

79
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Do you remember the emotional punch at the end of that with the decision the Jemmedal made?

80
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He knows how to take a premise to its emotional conclusion.

81
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And trust me, not all Star Trek writers in the 90s know how to do that.

82
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They'll give you a sort of technobabbly answer, and everyone just goes, well, that's all sorted.

83
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How lovely, you know, and you're like, well, okay, like, yeah, I mean, they're not interested in kind of doing that.

84
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Do you know what I mean?

85
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It's a space procedural with a high concept and we don't want to do that.

86
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But, you know, the Michael Pillar discovery that not only do science fiction things have to happen, they have to happen to our characters is the thing that makes the difference, I think, between a fun procedural kind of twilight zone episode to something that we can actually care about and possibly even be moved by.

87
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What baffles me completely is how they didn't see those couple out, those handful of scenes where the regulars are just having great fun on this space station and getting into mischief and things like that and go, oh my god, can we just do that 4 times a year?

88
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We've only got 2 seasons left.

89
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Let's just go to fun places and explore alien environments and see weird creatures.

90
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Why didn't they do that on Voyager?

91
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I just don't understand why we're doing procedure of the week when we're in this region of space where anything goes.

92
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Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, there's a problem, isn't there?

93
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I think inherent to the show, and inherent to what it promises.

94
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And when Star Trek the Next Generation talks about exploring Strange New Worlds and seeking out new life and new civilisations, but then it's just taking an alien delegate to the Planet Pacifica again or like whatever.

95
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Do you know what I mean?

96
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So we're not exploring.

97
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Voyage has been thrown a long distance away.

98
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And so it's in a hostile environment.

99
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But for me, that was always the idea that Voyager was, what if Star Trek, the next generation, only more right wing.

100
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Do you know what I mean?

101
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Where all of the aliens are enemies and in fact, the script here uses the word xenophobic to describe all of the aliens that they encounter.

102
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And more, I couldn't help but read that as more commenting on the direction that we've chosen to take the show.

103
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It sort of gets steadily more right wing as we progress towards enterprise, doesn't it?

104
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Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

105
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That's right.

106
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And Enterprise gets more right wing over its run as well.

107
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But the idea that we would form alliances and have mutual cultural exchanges and that we would help one another and that we would enjoy meeting new people and that the aliens would be funny and ridiculous rather than, you know, 9.8 on the Beaumont scale and threatening to blow us up.

108
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You know, like, like, even Chakotay is fun.

109
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I mean, come on.

110
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Yes, he's coming through the bridge, like stupid bat.

111
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And he's like, oh, excuse me, everybody.

112
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I've got another bit of tap for you here, Captain.

113
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Oh, more, please, why don't you stick around?

114
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Come on.

115
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I can only give a couple of times, though.

116
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Do you remember when we did alliances and we suddenly cut to that bar in season 2 and that woman sort of dancing exotically on the table.

117
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We're in some sort of sleazy bar and I'm like, my God, we never do this.

118
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This is great.

119
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And then in season 3, there's one called fair trade.

120
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Do you remember where it gets to the end of Neelix's knowledge?

121
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And they go to this sort of space station where crime is rife and it's a really sort of visually interesting weird place.

122
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That, those are the only 2 examples I can think of apart from this.

123
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And, and, you know, like alliances is that time where they try and form an alliance.

124
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It's in the name and then they decide, no, we can't afford to do that.

125
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That's bad because they could be evil whites South Africans.

126
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Yeah, terrible.

127
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Like that's super unfortunate.

128
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And but that's what Star Trek is and it's hard, I think.

129
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And just making the aliens just intransigent unreasonable obstacles to us achieving our goals every week.

130
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That's tedious and just not... just described Voyager, there.

131
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Oh, just I'll never forget it.

132
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What's it?

133
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She goes, we cannot abandon our principles of the Federation by making friends here with these horrible aliens.

134
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Okay.

135
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I mean, do you remember that one in series one?

136
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Where there goes for that planet, you know, where Chewvac steals the technology that could get them home and prime factors. they're all just sort of lounging around. a man with a very strange voice, a card of talks like that.

137
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Yeah, and but they're just sort of hanging with these people.

138
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I was like, yeah, this, this.

139
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You had it there.

140
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Well, let's just enjoy the one time it happens then in the latter half of Voyager.

141
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Let's do that.

142
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Should we go in?

143
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Yeah, dude, indeed.

144
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There's abandon our principles of Voyager and have fun for one episode.

145
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Yeah.

146
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Okay.

147
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Brilliant.

148
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All right.

149
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I will care to see it in that case.

150
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

151
00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.960
And here we go now.

152
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We're in flashback territory.

153
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Fresh landing.

154
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There was another thing.

155
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Yeah, there was another thing that I kind of liked about the flashback thing too, where the flashback runs out at a and then it was like what they did in timeless.

156
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Do you know what I mean?

157
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Where the pace of the flashback had an impact or had was reflected in the pace of the main story.

158
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And so they all start getting their memories back and they all have the barbeque.

159
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And then, and then that stops because that's where their memory ends.

160
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Oh, yeah, I have to say immediately, Terry Wendell, I see your very sort of stagey direction there.

161
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The camera sort of pulled back.

162
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So everybody, a bit like 80s TV. everyone was in the screen in various positions waking up and, you know, bravo for adding some dry ice to suggest there's a bit of mist in this forest, but this is a bad forest set.

163
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Like, Jesus Christ.

164
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I mean, it's um, it's obviously the dry ice is there so that we can't see the studio floor.

165
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Yeah, I mean, it's sort of okay.

166
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I mean, it's typical 90s forest.

167
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But every now and again they'll pump in like steaming and light air from above and stuff like that.

168
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So go watch like something like change of heart where Dax and Wolf are down on that jungle planet.

169
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And they filled it for all the bloody lizards and snakes and all sorts.

170
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It's great, but yeah, yeah.

171
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Yeah, that's very rudimentary and that is kind of, like, I guess that's intriguing, I guess.

172
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We read it as a flashback.

173
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We have to.

174
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Do you know what I mean?

175
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Like what else what else is possibly happening here?

176
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It's worth remembering as well.

177
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This is like the, I mean, God, I don't know how many they've done now, but it's another episode, of course, where we're leaning into the Borg, we're opening with a Borg, uh, sphere tearing across the screen right from the start because it's just currency now, isn't it, the Borg?

178
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It's like, yeah, people love the ball.

179
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Let's just keep doing that Well, I mean, they introduced a Borg character.

180
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So you have to think that they're going to be Borg episodes.

181
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I mean, that's how this works.

182
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Which is fair, but they did overload 4 and 5 with Borg episodes to the point where they're inching out other interesting characters.

183
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So it does get in seven. where you're going, oh, another Borg episode.

184
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Come on now.

185
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This has been tough to death.

186
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Yeah.

187
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That's fair.

188
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That's fair.

189
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You know, like the Borg episodes are pretty great.

190
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And I think there's something to be said for having few of them, but also, you know, just becomes a thing that Star Trek can do and let's just do it.

191
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At least it's interesting here, right?

192
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Collective was so boring.

193
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Like, at least this is dramatically interesting. yeah.

194
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If you're gonna do it, do it well.

195
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Oh here we go.

196
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Here we go.

197
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Here we go.

198
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Look at the space station.

199
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It looks amazing.

200
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It just looks great.

201
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You know what it looks like?

202
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That looks a bit like the conceptual design for DS9 before they went for those weird spikes.

203
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:34.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it also reminds me a little bit of that one in Dead Stop as well.

204
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You know, the...

205
00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:42.000
Yeah, but it's like big and interesting and it just looks like a place where a lot of things are happening.

206
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We don't go there, do we?

207
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We don't go on there at all.

208
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Everything's happening here.

209
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But there's enough aliens about, I mean, keep your eyes peeled because all of these aliens have been in Voyager before.

210
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It's all the stock miles because they've got, I sort of are...

211
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Yeah, I think there's one who turned up as like a one scene criminal.

212
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It might have been in the Bongmar episode, actually, you know, just popped.

213
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Oh, here we go.

214
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The station manager didn't tell me the vines were pretty hensile.

215
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So obviously she's being felt up by this bush.

216
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Oh, what did she say at the end?

217
00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.120
It's got my hair.

218
00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.500
I mean, look at the state of this room.

219
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:23.460
And she's got fronds coming out of her hair.

220
00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:25.379
We know things are bad with her hair.

221
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:29.820
I came from a voyage of medallion.

222
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.559
The cheapest thing I could think to give them.

223
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:34.500
Oh, Cheuvoc is great in this scene.

224
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:36.120
Isn't it?

225
00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:40.860
Where every they're sort of going, oh, it's so wonderful when he comes back with a catty line each time.

226
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

227
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.500
Christmas morning.

228
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:45.360
And that's what it felt like as well.

229
00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:47.639
It did feel like Christmas morning. was a great line.

230
00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:49.379
Well, when you go, what's it?

231
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.539
No, there's a 2nd page of all the crimes that have happened.

232
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.759
And then he goes, she doesn't talk.

233
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:55.259
Yeah, yeah.

234
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:57.539
So they're actually doing funny lines.

235
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.879
Like, they're actually doing funny lines.

236
00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:00.600
Because Ron Moore.

237
00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:01.559
Yeah, yeah.

238
00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:05.159
I know, he could have written us some great comedies. couldn't it be to stuck around?

239
00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:06.059
Yeah, yeah.

240
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.399
Look at her hair for the whole scene.

241
00:16:08.460 --> 00:16:09.899
They just give her this silt.

242
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:13.919
Like, she's just been through. bush backwards, which is literally what's happened.

243
00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:16.440
Oh, he goes, what is it, don't you find true?

244
00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:18.179
People have got freedom and they're happy.

245
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.379
He goes, open this.

246
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:20.879
Does he say I'm happy you're happy?

247
00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:24.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah Oh, are you sure pleased?

248
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

249
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:27.539
It's pretty good, isn't it?

250
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:32.340
Oh, but he does get he does get a Voyager medallion as well.

251
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:35.100
No, he decides. got me by the hair.

252
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:39.720
She goes, why don't they let Kay have fun more often?

253
00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:40.500
She's so funny.

254
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:49.740
But I mean, I think this premise where they're here to meet new people and exchange, have cultural exchanges and stuff.

255
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.019
Oh, what do we think of Naomi Wild?

256
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.899
Oh, she's the most irritated moppet, isn't she?

257
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.480
But I do quite like her in this episode.

258
00:16:57.539 --> 00:17:08.819
I thought there's a couple of scenes where we veer towards crossing the line of oversentimentality, but Jerry actually sells them really well, especially the one where she says to her, no, I do consider you.

259
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:10.740
Oh, would you look at the direction here?

260
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.759
This is so bad.

261
00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:14.160
It's a tight shot on 7 and Naomi, right?

262
00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:16.380
Whilst all this stuff's happening in the background.

263
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.059
They're all just waiting to par.

264
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:19.019
You can see.

265
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:24.059
And the camera sort of comes back and then they all just part and it's so staged, isn't it?

266
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:26.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

267
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:31.140
But like they part because she barks at them, which I think is actually pretty funny as well.

268
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.700
So, you know, the crowd is there and she barks at them and they all part.

269
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:36.960
But yes, hang on.

270
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:38.220
They just made the bumps a bit different.

271
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.380
I know he's gray as well.

272
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:45.119
But it looks like me on the Star Trek project to show up.

273
00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:47.220
You made it into the show.

274
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:48.660
Well done.

275
00:17:48.720 --> 00:18:00.960
I, as an Australian, I have to say that marsupial surprise sounds disgusting and literally eating pouches, but I can assure you that kangaroo is actually pretty delicious.

276
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:05.819
I don't know what 7 and Naomi Wildman are eating, but it looks absolutely miserable.

277
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.519
Well, it's spinach in creamy sauce or something.

278
00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:16.259
I actually really like how 7 knows how eating things works on Star Trek because you never sit and need an entire meal.

279
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:24.059
You sit down and get served to you and then there's a blue alert or you have to go somewhere or something and so she's decided she doesn't want to eat.

280
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.759
All right, this is Vaughan Armstrong.

281
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:27.599
Yes.

282
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:31.079
Who I thought was the strongest of the three, Boar character.

283
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:32.700
And he's the chief one.

284
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:37.380
He is in Heart of Glory.

285
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:43.680
Way back in season one of TNG.

286
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:46.140
He's Captain Chorus, the main the main guy.

287
00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.059
He's in past prologue.

288
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.460
He's in as a Cardassian.

289
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:53.940
He's in Eye of the Needle as a Romulan.

290
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.140
He is another Cardassian in the dogs of war.

291
00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:02.460
He is the Videan captain in Fury.

292
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.160
He's the alpha Herogan in flesh and blood.

293
00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:12.059
He's Korath, another Klingon in Endgame, and his forest in Enterprise.

294
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:13.079
Remember Admiral Forrest?

295
00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:13.740
Yeah.

296
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:19.380
And he's a Klingon captain and he's the Cretasson in a night in Sick Bay.

297
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:19.980
Oh, boy.

298
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:22.440
And so he...

299
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:23.640
He saved the best.

300
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:24.900
More different characters.

301
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.799
He's played more different characters even than Jeffrey Coobs, I think.

302
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:33.000
Do you think he's got some photographs of Rick Berman somewhere?

303
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:34.200
I think he's solid.

304
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:35.400
You know what I mean?

305
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:36.839
certainly the best of this three.

306
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:39.539
He's got a bit of gravity.

307
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.859
He does.

308
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:41.400
He does.

309
00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:49.380
Now, the woman who plays Marika, who is seeing here who is a Bajoran, is a Vulcan in the McKee.

310
00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:51.779
Oh, she's terrible in that.

311
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:53.640
If it's the one that flirts with cool.

312
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.279
It's a really, really bad performance.

313
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:03.480
I mean, here, like, the way she's delivering all of her lines, here, you know, I was talking about murder, she wrote a lot.

314
00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:09.240
I just imagine her being sort of like the one that everyone accuses us to kill her and she's like, no, I'm innocent.

315
00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:10.440
It's that sort of performance.

316
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:31.799
And this, I think, is really great, where he kind of goes, so this is Pachan 4 of 9, and he's the 1st one who gets a memory back, because he realises that desecrating the body of the drone would be a violation of his religious beliefs, from his original planet.

317
00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:37.259
And I actually thought too, the way that they describe their past is really interesting.

318
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.359
So he was a young man.

319
00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:43.740
He lived in a small building near the river, and his job was to look after his parents.

320
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:51.900
I thought, and and what you get from them, like she says that she has a husband.

321
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:58.740
Nathan, Ball's been delivering these bullshit backstories now long enough to be able to do it convincingly.

322
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.859
But they're really, they're not...

323
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:03.059
It's a little detailed, isn't it?

324
00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:05.579
It's not a narrative, but we normally care.

325
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:06.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

326
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.279
Yeah, I thought it was really good.

327
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:09.240
Really nice.

328
00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:13.799
I mean, I love the look of horror on Jerry's face when she goes, excuse me.

329
00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:15.839
Do you think of yourself as an individual?

330
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:16.859
What is happening here?

331
00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:21.000
And yet, she's clearly feeling that herself.

332
00:21:21.059 --> 00:21:23.279
Oh, this was great.

333
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.539
Yes, this same.

334
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.799
Torres and why did we not get more Torres and Serpent and Lyon?

335
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:32.400
because they kind of love and hate each other at the same time.

336
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.220
Torres is like, I'm the super bitch on this ship.

337
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:36.420
And 7's like, really?

338
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.019
Come on now.

339
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:43.440
But when they have a moment like this where they managed to connect despite the fact that they're not really friends.

340
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:44.640
It's lovely.

341
00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:57.960
Yeah, I think what they did was they said, well, we have a woman, and so we'll use her, and poor old Roxanne, who is unbelievably good, and massively underutilised in this show.

342
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:01.440
Um, you know, they just put her on the back.

343
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:03.119
This poor good scene.

344
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:08.220
It's so great. at this point where they sort of remember her. 4 and five. she got I mean she's pregnant in one of those seasons as well.

345
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.279
So they sort of shepherd beyond consoles like Gates McFadden.

346
00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:15.599
But, you know, you get barging a dead next, you get Muse at the end of the season.

347
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:21.180
I know we have some issues with lineage next year, but that's, you know, for me, they start doing things with her again.

348
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:21.960
Sure.

349
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.299
I think they're sort of like, we think exhausted seven.

350
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:25.019
Who have we got left?

351
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:26.220
Oh, Belana's there.

352
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:26.640
Yeah, yeah.

353
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:27.180
Oh, that's right.

354
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:27.960
Yeah, she's still here.

355
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:30.960
Nathan, I'm sorry, but that man's sort of bulging forehead.

356
00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:32.160
It's very unfortunate.

357
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:32.819
Look at him.

358
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.279
Yeah, another Westmore problem.

359
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:36.000
Yes, isn't it?

360
00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:38.220
Huge brain.

361
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:40.019
That's what it is Yeah.

362
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.960
Yeah, they sort of look bowling and stuff.

363
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:43.740
I don't know.

364
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:49.920
I think that they look good and I think that the scars on their face are a good choice.

365
00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:55.440
Because, I mean, in a way, because they don't have implants, the way that 7 does.

366
00:22:55.500 --> 00:23:02.880
She's still got the implants and you want that because you want her to kind of look Borg, but you don't want to stop her from being incredibly sexy.

367
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:09.000
Whereas here they give them scars and notice that they give Marika fewer scars than the boys.

368
00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:16.200
But that's a great scene there where they're all just sitting there talking to one another in each other's heads and you kind of go, what is this?

369
00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:16.920
Who are these people?

370
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:21.900
Generally speaking, when the episode is relying on the dialogue, which is really good.

371
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:23.099
It's good.

372
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:27.599
It's when it's action or has to be presented in an interesting way.

373
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:29.579
That's where it falls apart.

374
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:30.180
In a minute.

375
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:39.480
You wait. 7 of 9 wakes up in her alcove and they try and stage a sort of weird action scene where they're all around her and Chewbok just sort of saunters in the room with a gun.

376
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:44.099
And I'm like, that couldn't have been less dramatic if the director tried.

377
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:51.180
And I think that there's a real scene of genuine horror that would have helped the episode to land.

378
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:55.380
Like, there was super important to how the episode ended up and he fudges it.

379
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:56.700
I don't think it's very good at all.

380
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:01.140
The hell was that alien that just sort of sexily slinked out of the turbo lift?

381
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:02.279
Did you see the back of her head?

382
00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:03.420
She didn't lock it up.

383
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:03.960
Oh, yeah.

384
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:05.460
Yeah, yeah, awesome.

385
00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:08.160
Oh, yeah, sorry.

386
00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:09.420
I forget about your ginks.

387
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:10.079
God.

388
00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:13.859
The trouble is now, right?

389
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.359
The episodes are sort of underway and the premise is sort of being worked on.

390
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:20.160
So Chakotay can't be fun anymore.

391
00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:23.759
Now he's just pushing buttons, take the babble again.

392
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:30.960
But so they're going through this dark thing and they're kind of scared, but they look like they're just sort of strolling into the sand, don't they?

393
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:32.640
The whole room should be dark.

394
00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:33.119
Right?

395
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:35.700
They have done it before, where they make that room really dark.

396
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:43.380
And then they should maybe POV shots of them creeping in handheld, you know, like sort of closer to them, though.

397
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:45.299
The camera's too far away from them.

398
00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:47.579
And so you don't get their subjectivity.

399
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.240
You don't get how they're feeling about it and they're anxious about doing this.

400
00:24:51.299 --> 00:24:52.619
They don't want to harm her.

401
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.440
They're doing something that they shouldn't be doing.

402
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:58.019
But they don't look fast.

403
00:24:58.019 --> 00:24:59.039
It doesn't really change like that.

404
00:24:59.099 --> 00:24:59.940
Look at the man there.

405
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:02.819
Oh, dear, we might get caught, you know.

406
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.779
Oh, I thought Vaughan Armstrong was selling anxious there, actually.

407
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:08.940
He's got a good moody Stano, wasn't he?

408
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.180
Like, yeah, he's good for a close-up with those eyes.

409
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.019
And I do think the woman who plays America is beautiful as well.

410
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:16.980
I think that held.

411
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:21.119
Did you see there where she just flashed her leg and it had all scars and implants in it still.

412
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:25.500
I mean, that's why we know all of their bodies are, you know, still.

413
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:26.220
Yeah, that looks great.

414
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:27.240
And we do see more of that.

415
00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:30.180
I think we take Vaughan Armstrong's shirt off.

416
00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:30.900
Watch this.

417
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.700
Watch this like she wakes up.

418
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:35.759
It's so terrible Oh, hello.

419
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.640
What's happening here?

420
00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:39.839
I will not comply.

421
00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:40.859
I'm going to push you there.

422
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:41.880
I mean, look at it.

423
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:43.259
It's so awful.

424
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:44.039
Yeah.

425
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:47.220
It's really bad. you know?

426
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.460
But there needs to be real...

427
00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:51.480
Yeah, far out.

428
00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:57.359
There needs to be real body horror around the nanotubes or whatever they are. doesn't that?

429
00:25:57.420 --> 00:26:04.680
Particularly because of the that incredible moment where she just essentially reassimilates them.

430
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:10.619
Like she just goes from one and does what was done to them originally and reassimilates them.

431
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:15.779
And that should be absolutely horrifying and terrible, but it's just not well directed at all.

432
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:27.480
The only level that works for me is her performance, you know, because Jerry is so good, and there's just a sort of dispassionate, but a little bit of a, oh, God, what am I doing?

433
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.839
In a performance where I was like, wow, okay, there's some conflict there.

434
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:41.640
But, but they need to be properly terrified by it because, you know, because it's the thing that costs them all these, and they've all blanked it out.

435
00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:46.079
Star Trek can remember it. reluctant to make people really scared, isn't it?

436
00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:47.940
It's not something that Star Trek.

437
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.940
Sorry, the Doctor Who does all the time makes adults bloody terrified.

438
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:56.700
Yeah, I mean, we talked last time about how original Star Trek was scary.

439
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:06.359
Um, but, um, yeah, Voyager doesn't tend to do horror, but I think Jones wants this to, uh, Moore wants this to be horrible.

440
00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:07.259
Do you know what I mean?

441
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:12.599
Like he's writing a horror scene where she is going from person to person assimilating them.

442
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.960
And the Borg were always scary and they are scary.

443
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:22.140
Um, you know, I'll tell you what, look at his face, the lead bulk.

444
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.339
Do you see where his face is torn, where the makeup is the sort of holes in the makeup?

445
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:27.960
That's nasty, isn't it?

446
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:30.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. where the where the tube.

447
00:27:31.019 --> 00:27:37.259
The pike is going in. sort of like sort of stretching like gum. it's horrible Yeah, yeah, yeah.

448
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:44.220
But you know, now, I mean, I am just getting sitting around a campfire. just having a nice barbeque, like you said.

449
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.259
What's the creature, do you think?

450
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:47.579
What did they eat?

451
00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:51.059
Yeah, I don't know, big cow.

452
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.259
Space cow.

453
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:52.980
Okay, okay.

454
00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:58.740
Why could we have seen the scene where they're sort of chasing it down?

455
00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:02.039
That would have been great. would have been awesome.

456
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.440
Oh, boy.

457
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:14.579
See, as a script, though, right, this sequence where they're all remembering various parts, it's really good, and it builds momentum, they all start remembering things really fast.

458
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

459
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.000
And she has no memories.

460
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:20.039
She doesn't report any memories, does she?

461
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:21.480
Or did she say my parents are dead?

462
00:28:21.539 --> 00:28:22.140
No, he does.

463
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.039
Heap achan.

464
00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:24.299
He says his parents are dead.

465
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:26.460
She has got no memories.

466
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:38.099
And I think that I, because I'd seen this before, I must have kind of remembered how it went down, but she, um, uh, like she has no memories.

467
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:44.220
And, and, you know, the original conception of her, I think, was that she was raised by wolves.

468
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:45.299
Do you know what I mean?

469
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.740
Like if we're going to, you know, make this comprehensible in some way.

470
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:55.980
What we want is raised, what we want is raised by wolves, right?

471
00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:04.019
But there were other possible conceptions of her, like she had been a drug addict and she was coming off drugs.

472
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.559
Do we play it like that or she'd been in a cult?

473
00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:11.880
You know, but here I think the idea is the cult.

474
00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:12.900
But yeah, yeah.

475
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.839
They should they do. don't you think?

476
00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:24.000
The drug addict stuff is in the gift, you know, where she's sort of coming down from that throughout that entire episode and fighting against it.

477
00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.579
They're certainly the cult thing they do a couple of times.

478
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:33.119
But they're doing it here because she is someone who has been converted to this cult as a child.

479
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:40.019
She has no other way of understanding the world and she's scared without because she has nothing.

480
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:44.579
Her only memories of her childhood are the terror of being assimilated by the Borg.

481
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:45.900
That's all she can remember.

482
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:49.019
And so she can't experience that again.

483
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.359
And so she makes sure that it doesn't happen.

484
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:56.220
She makes sure that they don't, you know, that the Borg doesn't go away or anything like that.

485
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:58.259
So voyage, Nathan.

486
00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:04.259
Oh my god, the raised bar wolves approach is easily the most interesting and the one they barely touch on.

487
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:10.799
But I do think that the raised by wolves thing is does inform her performance.

488
00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:12.299
Does inform how she plays.

489
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:22.380
Whenever she's sort of cold, whenever she's dismissed of people's deaths, whenever she her reaction to something is like, whoa, let's just murder them all.

490
00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:23.160
Well, get out of here.

491
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:23.759
Come on now.

492
00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:24.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

493
00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:25.259
Yeah.

494
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:27.299
But look, look, look at Vaughan Armstrong.

495
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.559
Like he's got his shirt off here.

496
00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:32.519
Nowadays, you know, like you couldn't look like that and have your shot.

497
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.019
God, he's got a creepy studio.

498
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.759
Yeah, you wouldn't see a crease, would you?

499
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:38.160
Yeah, but look, doesn't he look amazing?

500
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:40.740
Yeah, the makeup job is so good.

501
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.960
And how often do we say that in 90s strike?

502
00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:44.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

503
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.559
And the makeup on on Pichan as well.

504
00:30:46.619 --> 00:30:47.579
I think is pretty good too.

505
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.039
I like the fact that, you know, because she's so pretty.

506
00:30:50.099 --> 00:30:54.180
We've only got a little bit to the side of a red there because we don't want to make her look too ugly.

507
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.819
We learned our lesson from coarse oblivion.

508
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.259
Yeah exactly.

509
00:30:58.319 --> 00:30:59.039
Exactly.

510
00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:01.559
That's actually look at his chest.

511
00:31:01.619 --> 00:31:06.180
I mean, it really is. are going into his skin.

512
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:19.380
Because, I mean, they have to do, they have to make because she's still got the implants, but it has to read like this was done by people who are less good at this than the doctor is, right?

513
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.319
And so the doctor manages to get her to grow hair back.

514
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:25.799
The doctor managers, but has to leave some of the implants behind.

515
00:31:25.859 --> 00:31:33.420
But here, like they look like they've been done by some sort of back alley surge and that's exactly how that's supposed to read.

516
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:36.240
The most chilling thing that could possibly happen.

517
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:44.339
Yeah, is the line that Ronald D. Moore just gave the bald man, was where he went, oh my god, what the hell have they done to me?

518
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:47.099
Like he's seen that he's been mutilated.

519
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:56.819
And it's the thing that makes the cybermen scary and it's the thing that makes the Borg scary and it's the thing that both shows very rarely touch for whatever reason.

520
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:57.480
Yeah, yeah.

521
00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:00.599
Voyager really, Voyager.

522
00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:10.440
Star Trek, the Next Generation, you know, sort of does it, and obviously that incredible opening scene of 1st contact with the with the drill going into Picard's eye.

523
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:17.700
But, you know, when um, 2 of nine, when Lansor says, this isn't my hand, what happened to my hand?

524
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:18.660
I want my hand back.

525
00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:24.839
Like, you don't get any of that from 7 or anything like that because it's all kind of just neatly fixable.

526
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.059
You know what, right?

527
00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:31.740
I mean, I was just looking at the back of his head there, that amazing sort of crane implant that he's got.

528
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.799
Had these not been X-port drones?

529
00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:41.279
We would have been going, oh, you know, it's the usual sort of latex, but because they can add some detail to it.

530
00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:43.440
That's what makes it interesting, isn't it?

531
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.579
I wonder why she wears a beret.

532
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.519
It's such an entrees.

533
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:51.900
Yes, sir.

534
00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:55.079
She's got one fuck off Eugene plant under that, I reckon.

535
00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:58.319
Highly, highly prized amongst my people, you know.

536
00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:59.220
Did you miss that detail?

537
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.460
Great religious symbol, the beret.

538
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:04.559
Oh, boy.

539
00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:09.000
I mean, I still love I still love the fact that they put this ball cubicle in Voyager.

540
00:33:09.059 --> 00:33:13.619
Like, it's so unusual for Voyager to have that, actually, something that impacts the bloody ship.

541
00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:26.519
I think too, that that we very we very quickly get rid of the idea that these are our adversaries and we decide to start working together.

542
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:40.380
You know, it's unlike Voyager where these guys would be villains who are trying to get, you know, like the guy in hope and fear, who is trying to get revenge on the Borg or whatever because of what's been done to them.

543
00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:42.359
They're not our enemies at all.

544
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:43.740
They do do this thing.

545
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.500
They get caught, but then 7 immediately agrees to help them.

546
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.980
And so this isn't about conflict between aliens or anything like that.

547
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.619
This is about the past and what 7 had to do.

548
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:57.299
This sort of wordplay that Moore's put into the script here.

549
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:03.720
Yeah, where they see each other's really skilfully done and it just feels like they've had one turn here.

550
00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:12.659
I mean, go and watch something like Doctor Who's midnight. and there you'll see 2 hired skilled actors delivering wordplay in a really sophisticated way.

551
00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:17.760
That could have been an incredible scene there, but it's it's just a bit flat.

552
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:28.739
We'll talk about that in a minute, but now we have a dressing down with Harry and Tom in her ready room.

553
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:30.119
You are looking for a bar.

554
00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:31.139
Tell the truth.

555
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.380
And you'd been drinking.

556
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.500
I mean, they're just terrible, they say, but she's wonderful.

557
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:39.480
At the end where she goes, did you win?

558
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:41.940
You know, like, yeah, yeah.

559
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.900
I mean, what the hell do you do with that stupid racket?

560
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:47.460
Yeah.

561
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:51.360
So again, and I kind of like that the racket has been established.

562
00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:53.219
Um, you know, like why not?

563
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.760
We had that set, that stupid prop, let's have the stupid propaganda.

564
00:34:56.820 --> 00:35:02.639
I think, you know, this is the sort of story that Picard tells about his misspent youth, isn't it?

565
00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:05.219
You know, like playing Domjot with Nausicans.

566
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.300
You know, it is that sort of thing.

567
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.539
Cisco with curzled in all the bars, you know.

568
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:14.820
We don't get to do that anymore. you know, and so it's kind of nice to give them that.

569
00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:21.059
And you can see that that's why Ron Moore did it because that's a Star Trek staple that Voyager's not done.

570
00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:26.579
I don't like it that much because it has nothing to do with the rest of the episode.

571
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:29.219
It's clearly there for contractual reasons to get these 2 guys.

572
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:34.019
And there's a kind of boys will be boys attitude, which I think doesn't really fly anymore.

573
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.300
You know, like 30 years later or whatever.

574
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.559
Um, you can't really get away with that.

575
00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:41.460
It feels bad.

576
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:43.920
But the trouble, and I don't disagree.

577
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:50.099
It's totally out of place, but I just can't not want to watch a scene where Kate Mulgrew has been bossy.

578
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:51.059
I just love it.

579
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:51.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

580
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.739
Sardonic look, she gives them at the end, you know?

581
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:56.219
Oh, good.

582
00:35:56.280 --> 00:36:06.300
But why, again, it's this pathetic thing where Harry has to say we kick their rackets because it's PG and he can't just say we kick their arse like a grown-up.

583
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:07.679
Like, it's just absurd.

584
00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:14.820
If you can have O'Brien say bollocks, you can have Harry Kim say arse, right?

585
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:20.460
Well, I think the problem is that bollocks and bloody, which are both things that Tom gets to say.

586
00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:25.380
They don't know any other English swear words or British swear.

587
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.579
Really?

588
00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:28.079
That's not that strong.

589
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:28.559
I know.

590
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:29.099
Come on.

591
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.420
Kick their rackets.

592
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.219
That's such a voyager line, isn't it?

593
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:34.980
I reckon Bragga put that one in.

594
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:39.360
Oh, have Harry say something really cutting at the end, you know?

595
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:43.139
And then undermine it by not allowing him to swear.

596
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:45.480
Oh, here we go.

597
00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:46.800
Look, we're in safe hands now.

598
00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:49.139
We've got Kate and Jerry in a scene together.

599
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:55.500
And Jerry, fortunately, is dating Brandon at this point in season six, so Kate's being nice.

600
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.159
Jerry is definitely getting her toilet breaks now.

601
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:01.739
But this is good, isn't it?

602
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:06.659
Like, I think that this is actually quite a good scene as well.

603
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:21.000
Um, and like, it is exposition, but because Kate's great, like, because Kate knows her and how she feels, she gets to open up about it a little bit and about how she's feeling and what she's anxious about.

604
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:23.400
Like, I think all of that's pretty good.

605
00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:30.960
Oh, I love her saying I'm uncertain. and taking that to Janeway as well because there was a time when she wouldn't do that.

606
00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:34.139
God, it's so lovely, isn't it?

607
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:42.840
that they brought in a character, which meant that both 7 and Janeway, and obviously they're doing it with the doctor as well.

608
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:45.599
They are genuinely developing some characters.

609
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:46.320
Yeah.

610
00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:49.619
Because they weren't doing that in one to three, really, were they?

611
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:51.000
No.

612
00:37:51.059 --> 00:38:01.619
I mean, there was a kind of good relationship, I think, between Janeway and Kes setup, like they had quite a nice dynamic, I think. as well, which that does fall to the wayside when 7 comes in.

613
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:02.579
Yeah, it does.

614
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:06.960
We've done a couple of episodes where they've had some, you know, close scenes, Janeway and Torres.

615
00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:07.500
Oh, here we go.

616
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:08.039
Yeah, yeah.

617
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:08.940
He's Naomi now.

618
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.800
You know, Nomi Wildman.

619
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:12.659
Do you consider me part of your family?

620
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.480
I mean, I was going, 0 boy, this scene is not going to end well.

621
00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:20.219
No, I mean, I think it's okay.

622
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:24.059
I don't quite know what she's doing here.

623
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:25.079
Oh, Naomi.

624
00:38:25.139 --> 00:38:26.219
I mean, I ask that lot.

625
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:29.760
But what's this stuff about family exactly?

626
00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:30.719
Like why?

627
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:33.119
I don't know quite why it fits in this episode.

628
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:42.059
I mean, you've got this sort of weird enforced family among the triad among those 3 people who are kind of stuck with one another.

629
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.000
And now a foul family on Voyager.

630
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:46.619
But the link's not there, is it?

631
00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:47.820
No.

632
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:53.760
And like, I don't know what it's saying about it, because generally speaking, you know, the triad is negative and it's only at the end.

633
00:38:53.820 --> 00:39:03.239
I thought that it was actually a little bit of a shame they didn't take it further, that they all kind of loved one another, that they knew each other so well.

634
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.599
I just like 7 being gentle.

635
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:09.780
You know, they didn't give her enough moments like that.

636
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:19.980
When she came back and Picard, you know, she kicks arse, but she gets to have romances and be really sort of human in a way that plays to Jerry's strengths even more than they did here.

637
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:27.179
Yeah, so maybe it was just a chance to give Jerry and Naomi a, you know, boxing to do.

638
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:29.760
I don't think you, I said this before, haven't I?

639
00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:40.139
You don't need to stress that a show has a family in it if you are displaying well enough in the relationships and Voyager does it every other episode.

640
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:42.659
Oh, we're breaking up our family.

641
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:43.860
How sad, you know?

642
00:39:45.539 --> 00:39:54.000
So now we go back. to the cliffhanger, not the cliffhanger, the flashback. and we catch up.

643
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:56.460
We go beyond where the where it's been before.

644
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:03.420
And I don't hate these scenes, but I do think that, as I said to you before.

645
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:05.400
So this is where we left off, isn't it?

646
00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:12.780
I do think that it needed to be more terrifying, and I think it's all overlit.

647
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:14.760
It needs to be directed to the potential.

648
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:15.900
Yeah, walking off there.

649
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:21.239
That camera just walked off for about 10 seconds while she walked the whole length of the studio.

650
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:23.519
Terry, you can move the cameras.

651
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:32.159
Well, he's doing it now, like with a steady cam, you know, the handheld as she walks through the thing, but it's not close enough to her.

652
00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:35.639
You know, like if we're trying to convey her subjectivity here.

653
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.639
It needs to be nasty this, you're right.

654
00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:43.440
It needs to be, she's really taking something from them instead.

655
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:44.039
Yeah.

656
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:45.719
Well, actually, the blood snot.

657
00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:46.739
Look at the blood on his face.

658
00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:51.179
Yeah, so this guy just dies, doesn't he?

659
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:55.860
Um, and that's that's what terrifies her.

660
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:04.920
But, like, I don't think that's enough, and I don't think it lands enough, and I kind of struggle to know what was going on later on.

661
00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:05.880
Look at this shot.

662
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:07.019
I'm so sorry to interrupt.

663
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:08.820
They're just standing in a row in a row.

664
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.739
I mean that is 82 there, isn't it?

665
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:14.699
Come on, Terry.

666
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:15.300
Good grief.

667
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.320
I mean, he had, this was his 44th episode he directed, for God's sake.

668
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:19.800
Yeah, yeah.

669
00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:21.900
No, he does 10 episodes.

670
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:23.699
He literally does 10 episodes.

671
00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:27.059
He just saw that man who's about...

672
00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:28.800
He could get it done on time and on money.

673
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:31.139
Yeah, yeah.

674
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:31.800
Yeah.

675
00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:34.559
I mean, it's not inept, but it's just not as good as it could be.

676
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.360
I don't know.

677
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:39.119
I feel these could be proper horror scenes, couldn't they?

678
00:41:39.179 --> 00:41:40.500
Yes, exactly.

679
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:45.179
But this dialogue scene, though, is, again, playing to this as a religious cult.

680
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:45.960
Do you know what I mean?

681
00:41:46.019 --> 00:41:46.800
I do not exist.

682
00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:51.420
I exist only to service the Borg, you know, like it's a whole thing.

683
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:59.940
But like, you know, I'm going to make a comparison now to Willow hunting down those geeks in the forest in Buffy.

684
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.519
Yeah, do you remember how scary that was?

685
00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:08.460
Black Eyed Willow, pushing the trees pass, and the music, the bloody omen music's coming in.

686
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.880
Here, 7 or 9 just sort of wanders about and goes, oh, there you are, right?

687
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:12.719
There you go.

688
00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:13.440
There's your things.

689
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:16.559
But it did need to be that, didn't it?

690
00:42:16.619 --> 00:42:22.679
Yeah, and she should have means to be she's hunting them down and they're terrified.

691
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:24.960
Music, maybe as well, Nathan.

692
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:27.900
I think, like, they just don't have the music, do they?

693
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.300
You could probably sell it with a good horror score.

694
00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:33.659
But I think you need horror direction.

695
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:37.679
Like I think it, you know, it's not enough to just have her breathe deeply and look around.

696
00:42:37.739 --> 00:42:40.860
It's not like they can't do it because do you remember how impressed we were?

697
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:47.699
with the atmospherics in the haunting of deck 12, which was a flawed episode, but it had some atmosphere to it, didn't it?

698
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:48.179
Yeah.

699
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:50.639
Yeah, look at her now.

700
00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:51.420
She's like, hello.

701
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.639
Yeah, she's pacing her anywhere.

702
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:56.219
Like she should be hunting them.

703
00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:57.900
Why isn't she hunting them?

704
00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:59.699
She's just sort of strolling around.

705
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:03.179
And then we can't see her sleeping looking quite peaceful, actually.

706
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:09.239
I don't think she looks anxious It should have been like Tapole. suffering from ponfire.

707
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.980
Yeah, look, I mean, come on now.

708
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:15.300
She should literally be tearing down trees and oh, it should be really...

709
00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:23.159
Yeah, but she shoots him from like a long distance away, then walks slowly up to him and then puts the tubules in him.

710
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:25.679
You know, it should have been a chase.

711
00:43:25.739 --> 00:43:26.579
He let her down there, though.

712
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:27.840
That techno-babble.

713
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:31.440
She said, no, you just need her to be like stabbing him with the bloody things.

714
00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:33.179
You know, don't give her check the babble lines.

715
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:34.139
I knew that.

716
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:40.500
We knew the nanoprobes were going to create the interlink things because we'd seen it in the previous scene.

717
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.340
The fuck is this Crane Shaw as they're sort of wandering off together.

718
00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:47.699
Look at this beautiful sand.

719
00:43:48.539 --> 00:43:50.820
Beautiful, you say.

720
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:51.179
Okay.

721
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.900
Oh, he looks like he's anxious in his sleep there.

722
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.300
Yeah, that's a bit better.

723
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:58.260
That's a bit better.

724
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:00.659
But again, you know, like he wanders off.

725
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:03.179
And then we just sort of come to her doing that.

726
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:08.940
I mean, look, as they walk off, they look like bloody Crichton from Red Dwarf walking, don't they?

727
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:10.679
Like they need a poo.

728
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:12.000
I mean, what is happening?

729
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:18.179
Maybe I was just very so pleased when I was younger. was really scary stuff.

730
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:20.699
Yep.

731
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:21.539
Here we go.

732
00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:29.820
See, this, that look on her face, we at least got that, you know, like that we didn't get that in the other 2 ones. like she just looks implacable.

733
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.159
Like that's something that we could have seen.

734
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:35.099
Look at them all in a row with their arms hanging.

735
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.800
It just looks so awkward, doesn't it?

736
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:40.260
Yeah, that's the...

737
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:42.119
Like do close-ups here.

738
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:44.400
They look like bloody dollies standing in a row.

739
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.619
Yeah, yeah. insane, isn't it?

740
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:52.260
Oh, just punch, you know, like I keep saying on the page, it's so good.

741
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:52.739
It works.

742
00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:54.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

743
00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:54.960
Well, I think it could.

744
00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:59.159
And like, why are you doing close-ups of them stating their names, their designations?

745
00:44:59.219 --> 00:45:06.360
They had their names. you know, and why don't we have a close-up of their faces as they say their designation. to emphasise what they've lost.

746
00:45:06.420 --> 00:45:09.059
Yeah, now we can...

747
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:12.840
The way the camera's shooting around us, they shower.

748
00:45:12.900 --> 00:45:16.739
But don't they all kind of get brain fried or something?

749
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.260
Something happens to them and they, yeah, yeah, yeah.

750
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:23.159
I would have said, Terry, I'm sorry, that was your last Voyager, all right?

751
00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:25.199
Yeah, yeah.

752
00:45:25.260 --> 00:45:28.139
Yeah, I mean, maybe they don't have money for this either.

753
00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:30.360
I mean, obviously money's a problem on this show.

754
00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:32.880
Even like Barger the Dead, which is next.

755
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:33.539
Do you remember?

756
00:45:33.539 --> 00:45:37.199
That blood sea and that fabulous atmospheric's on the barge.

757
00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:39.900
No, I think it's the director.

758
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:47.039
I think I think if the director, you know, if his heart isn't in the horror, then it's not horrific, is it?

759
00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:48.719
No, that's right.

760
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:49.800
That's right.

761
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.840
And now we're having them talking about the interlink.

762
00:45:52.079 --> 00:46:11.400
This isn't the scene, but there is a scene later on, a scene where she comes back and makes the decision because there's, you know, this is a little bit, we're sort of heading towards the end of the episode, we're about 9 minutes from the end, and we still have to have a fair bit of dialogue to set up what the conundrum is.

763
00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:31.739
So we're coming quite late to the choice, the big moral choice at the centre of it, which is, do we allow them to be assimilated by the Borg so that they can live out the full length of their lives, or do we uh, take them away, you know, de program them, but they die in a month.

764
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:37.619
I mean, that's spectacularly late for the moral dilemma to hear in an episode.

765
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:38.579
Even tubes.

766
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:40.679
It lands somewhere in the middle of the episode.

767
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:41.880
That's right.

768
00:46:41.940 --> 00:46:42.719
That's right.

769
00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:47.400
But they don't have time to probably deal with it in 2 weeks because it takes them a while to kind of get there.

770
00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:54.659
But now we've got another scene. you know, but with Chakotay talking about this too.

771
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:56.639
They're romance, Nathan.

772
00:46:57.059 --> 00:46:59.039
Yeah, oh, God.

773
00:46:59.099 --> 00:46:59.880
I thinking?

774
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.360
But again, it's where we get the explanation of why she behaved the way that she did.

775
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:12.840
And I think if you're attentive, you would have guessed this because this is, you know, this is the right answer.

776
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:23.219
Ronald D. Moore knows how to make something happen because of a character's kind of backstory, well-known backstory, and we've seen Dark Frontier and stuff at this point.

777
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:26.760
So we know and the Raven, so we know how she got here.

778
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:29.639
I do think like this is good dialogue.

779
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:30.840
You were a scared little girl.

780
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:32.280
I saw the drone died.

781
00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:42.719
I became scared that I would die, and so I did what I thought, you know, we had to do, which was to turn everybody and become the collective and survive.

782
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:44.699
It makes sense.

783
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:48.000
It doesn't always make sense, Nathan.

784
00:47:48.179 --> 00:47:52.380
No, but like it's the death of the drone.

785
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:52.980
I don't know.

786
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:56.880
Like the death of that drone may be just one element too many, I think.

787
00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:05.820
Like, I think she needs to be scared of being abandoned because that's a nice contrast with her, not being able to tolerate crowds now.

788
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:07.739
We had that line.

789
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:14.400
What if it was like, and now he or she is on the, in this dark forest and she's a little girl and she's terrified.

790
00:48:14.460 --> 00:48:18.059
She's only known the Borg and being a terrified little girl.

791
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:22.559
We don't get any sense of that from her performance that that's how she's feeling.

792
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:29.280
And that that's what motivates her to go and get her friends back and forcibly assimilate them all again.

793
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:35.519
Like, I think, I think that the, the, dead drone doesn't quite get it.

794
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:37.440
That's overwritten as well.

795
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:45.239
I've been saying nice things about the dialogue there, but I don't need Chakotay to say to me, well, you know, if they go back to the Borg, they won't really be living out a human life.

796
00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:47.760
No, I know because we've been watching the episode.

797
00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:53.039
I mean, he says, what is it, a month as a human or a lifetime as a drone?

798
00:48:53.099 --> 00:48:53.639
That's enough.

799
00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:54.960
Yeah.

800
00:48:55.019 --> 00:48:57.900
So this thing now, I think, is really good.

801
00:48:57.960 --> 00:48:59.820
And it's properly rightly.

802
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:07.320
Notice that it starts with 7 coming in and saying survival is insufficient and the doctor pushing back against that.

803
00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:20.760
And then we have all this stuff about the doctor and an understanding of the doctor's character and the doctor's backstory, and the thing that makes the doctor like 7 and 7 has worked it out, and I don't think it's been said in quite the same way.

804
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:24.900
And it ends with him telling her that survival is insufficient.

805
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:30.119
Did you see that little flick of her eyes, what he says, is this what's best for them or what's best for you?

806
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:31.860
She's so good.

807
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.300
Yeah, she's really good.

808
00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:37.679
It's tiny... flinch that she gives.

809
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:42.179
This is a well-written scene.

810
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:44.280
It's super rightly, do you know what I mean?

811
00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:46.500
It's, you know, like Ron Moore doing his thing.

812
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:53.579
Um, and it works in a way that I don't think the previous Chakotay scene is all that interesting.

813
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:57.840
But this is electric, I think, and this is, you know, like, the turning point, right?

814
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.079
I'm going to experience individuality as I have, which is a great most.

815
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:04.619
Functionally, this is the climax, isn't it?

816
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:05.219
Yes.

817
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.760
Although, like you said, the actual climax is quite moving.

818
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:16.199
Yeah, well, I, but I think that that, that, that thing is not quite the climax.

819
00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:18.360
I think that's us cleaning up.

820
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:19.199
Do you know what I mean?

821
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:30.239
It's us saying goodbye and showing the consequences of the decision, but making this decision, is the important thing that happens in the episode, and this is where this thing gets made.

822
00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:32.219
You've established the emotions in this scene.

823
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:35.219
I don't need a making comparisons with the mobile emitter.

824
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:36.239
We don't need any of that.

825
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:37.619
No.

826
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:40.320
But I do think that saying you are like me.

827
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:52.980
You would not go back to being at the call of, you know, uh, summoning the EMH, you know, you became a person, you sing, you do this stuff.

828
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:55.380
And then the doctor says, yes, you're right.

829
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:56.760
Survival is insufficient.

830
00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:58.800
And that's the last one I've seen.

831
00:50:58.860 --> 00:50:59.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

832
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:01.559
Yeah, with her delivering it to him.

833
00:51:01.619 --> 00:51:03.059
And then did you see the look on her face then?

834
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:08.519
She almost looked like she was gonna cry, but she also looked conflicted and a bit angry as well.

835
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:10.320
It's it's so good.

836
00:51:10.380 --> 00:51:12.960
I mean, Jerry Ryan, Chef's gift.

837
00:51:13.019 --> 00:51:15.900
I like this scene too.

838
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:21.360
And I love him saying I had no idea you were going to say that, which I thought was, I haven't said it yet.

839
00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:23.820
Nathan, practical lighting in the set.

840
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:26.219
Coming through the windows from the space station.

841
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:29.159
And look, it's on their faces, it's in her hair.

842
00:51:29.219 --> 00:51:31.019
Why don't we do this more often?

843
00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:33.300
And it works.

844
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:34.320
Do you know what I mean?

845
00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:36.179
Like it's sunlight on their face.

846
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:42.780
They're staring out into the sunlight. and that's representing and maybe it's even a sunset.

847
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:43.619
Do you know what I mean?

848
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:50.159
That that it works for what's going on in the scene, that their faces are bathed in something like sunlight.

849
00:51:50.219 --> 00:51:51.119
I think it's really good.

850
00:51:51.179 --> 00:51:56.280
And I think Vaughan Armstrong, who is, you're right, the strongest of these guest actors, is great.

851
00:51:56.340 --> 00:51:58.679
Got more warp here as well, haven't they?

852
00:51:58.739 --> 00:52:01.679
Because now they're not robots anymore.

853
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:09.659
They're people Well, I had I had actually wanted Vaughan Armstrong to be a little bit more demonstrative.

854
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:13.440
I do like, they can't give him a line to say to her.

855
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:14.099
Do you know what I mean?

856
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:22.019
Because she did a terrible thing, but he forgives her, doesn't he, with just that look on his face and says, no, you made the right decision this time.

857
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:23.880
And I think that's really well done.

858
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:26.340
Here, when these 2 are.

859
00:52:26.340 --> 00:52:26.940
Yeah, that's lovely.

860
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.679
He's looking at her.

861
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:31.800
I mean, I've done with a bit more of this earlier.

862
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:33.119
I'm sorry.

863
00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:36.719
No, but this is what they get. they love one another.

864
00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:40.679
They're saying goodbye and they've been so intimate with one another.

865
00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:41.400
It's beautiful.

866
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:46.860
I know, but it's really good. keep saying to Nicholas Briggs, you know, you try and make robots and Mo.

867
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.619
It's not very interesting Just have to be people, all right?

868
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:54.119
And this, my people don't believe in holding grunges.

869
00:52:54.179 --> 00:53:00.300
And remember the 1st thing that we learned about his people were that they were religious and that they had religious sensibilities.

870
00:53:00.300 --> 00:53:03.599
And she's given that back to him with this choice.

871
00:53:03.659 --> 00:53:04.679
I think that's great.

872
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:12.239
That's a lovely show. of her there facing the sunlight with tears in her eyes and 7 behind looking at her.

873
00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:13.679
Like Terry, you did good.

874
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:15.360
Yeah.

875
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:24.420
Well, I mean, but it is one of those very standard scenes where someone is looking out a window and someone else is standing behind them towards them in the back of their head, which is...

876
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.179
Don't you talk to...

877
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:28.380
Come on, I do it all the time.

878
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:30.539
Please, will you just turn in the other direction?

879
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:33.960
I'm just used to this on the telly. you very much.

880
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:39.900
But it's a great saying. that's a really good scene Yeah.

881
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:40.860
Oh, here comes.

882
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:42.719
No, me to polish us off, look.

883
00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:45.000
Yeah, well, well.

884
00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:47.460
But listen, have you seen her now?

885
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:48.420
I mean, she's beautiful.

886
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:50.820
The woman that she's become.

887
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:51.300
Yeah.

888
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:52.559
Oh wow.

889
00:53:52.619 --> 00:53:54.119
Yeah, of course.

890
00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:55.920
I mean, once upon a time.

891
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.019
We will do it one day.

892
00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:03.780
It may not cause oblivion off the bottom sport.

893
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:05.760
I doubt it.

894
00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:08.039
Somehow.

895
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:11.519
The trouble is, Star Trek has a habit of doing this.

896
00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:18.960
Put in fabulous, you know, magnificent actresses like Jerry Ryan in scenes with Scarlet Pomer.

897
00:54:19.019 --> 00:54:21.059
Small children, Snarky Waltman.

898
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:36.360
Well, so sort of mixed response from me from that one, but I think on paper, it's doing all the right things for the and in execution is wanting quite a bit.

899
00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:37.380
Yeah.

900
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:39.599
I think that I think that that's the problem.

901
00:54:39.659 --> 00:54:42.000
But I think it is trying to do something that's really good.

902
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.219
And it gave us something interesting to talk about.

903
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:46.800
And it is, I think that's mission accomplished.

904
00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:51.719
You know, like I actually wanted just a kind of a mid-range normal episode of Voyager.

905
00:54:51.780 --> 00:54:57.360
Um, to just kind of talk about because we hadn't done that for a while.

906
00:54:57.420 --> 00:55:07.739
And this ended up being better than I expected in all sorts of ways, but it still fell short in production things and stuff.

907
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:08.760
So it was interesting to talk about.

908
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:09.480
I thought it was good.

909
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:16.739
The universe is imbalanced then, because this wound up being worse than I was hoping for, because I remember absolutely loving it.

910
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:19.019
It's been life and we can meet in the middle like this.

911
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:33.539
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next.

912
00:55:34.019 --> 00:55:37.500
This was my choice, I think.

913
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:39.239
And so it's your turn.

914
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:41.219
What do you have in store for us?

915
00:55:41.340 --> 00:55:48.059
Yes, well, now, listen, don't be cross because you give me the tools to do these things, all right?

916
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:51.780
If you didn't give me the tools, I couldn't make the art, okay?

917
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:59.579
It irritates me how well you know me, though, because you've just told me what I'm going to do, and it's precisely what I'm going to do.

918
00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:03.239
I have, of course, chosen my favourite Star Trek, Deep Space.

919
00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:04.920
Now let's stay in the 90s for a bit.

920
00:56:04.980 --> 00:56:08.219
I've chosen a specific season as well.

921
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:10.260
I've chosen six.

922
00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:12.239
See, what the hell did you know?

923
00:56:13.139 --> 00:56:15.659
Now, here's my role.

924
00:56:15.659 --> 00:56:16.559
That's for this role.

925
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:21.960
Well, we married once. can't remember.

926
00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:36.000
No, but now there is an episode I'm aiming for, but I'm only willing to press the button 8 times and if I don't get it on the 8th whatever I've got I'm going for.

927
00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:39.480
Look, if you didn't give me these seasons, I couldn't do this.

928
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:40.139
All right.

929
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:41.039
All right.

930
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:42.780
You were begging for them.

931
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:45.420
You are Oppenheimer in this situation.

932
00:56:46.619 --> 00:56:48.179
That's it.

933
00:56:48.179 --> 00:56:51.059
Of the randomiser, that is at least.

934
00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:51.960
Okay, you ready?

935
00:56:52.139 --> 00:56:53.820
I'm ready.

936
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:55.019
Okay, season 6 of 6.

937
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:56.219
I mean, it sounds good.

938
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.300
It's a vintage year.

939
00:56:57.360 --> 00:56:58.380
Let's have to go.

940
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:00.780
Far beyond the stars, well, we have already done that.

941
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:01.920
We've done that already.

942
00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:02.880
Okay.

943
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:03.300
Okay.

944
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:04.920
Oh, dear, no.

945
00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:06.059
We're not doing this one.

946
00:57:06.300 --> 00:57:08.340
Profit and lace.

947
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:08.639
No.

948
00:57:08.699 --> 00:57:11.400
I've just skipped straight over that one Oh, no.

949
00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:13.739
In the power moonlight. done that one too.

950
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:15.780
Yeah, that's right.

951
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:18.239
Oh, the reckoning.

952
00:57:18.300 --> 00:57:19.380
Oh, no, please.

953
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.820
I can't be dealing with those great fairy lights coming out of Jake and Kira on the promenade.

954
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:25.380
Oh yeah, that's nonsense, isn't it?

955
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:27.119
I mean, wind's in it.

956
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:29.699
A win is great, but...

957
00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:30.659
Let's keep going.

958
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:31.980
We've done a lot of six.

959
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:32.519
I haven't we?

960
00:57:32.579 --> 00:57:33.179
Rocks and shoals.

961
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:34.500
Yeah.

962
00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:35.760
Okay.

963
00:57:35.820 --> 00:57:36.420
Oh, shit.

964
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:43.980
Oh, if this is brilliantly tiled, wrong, darker than death or night.

965
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:51.960
But I just don't know if we should be doing sort of prostitution, you know, and sleeping with Nancy Commandants.

966
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:54.059
No, let's not.

967
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:55.139
Okay.

968
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:57.239
Oh, God, where am I at seven?

969
00:57:57.300 --> 00:57:57.840
Seven.

970
00:57:57.960 --> 00:57:59.460
Oh bloody hell.

971
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:09.539
Honour amongst thieves has come up next, which is our sort of torture O'Brien episode of season 6 where he goes and has a relationship with Nick Tate from...

972
00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:11.219
Space 1999.

973
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:11.639
Yeah.

974
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:12.059
Yeah.

975
00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:13.079
Okay.

976
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:14.519
So it has to be this one.

977
00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:15.179
This is eight.

978
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:16.860
Whatever it is, it's what we're doing.

979
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:19.800
Oh, well it's not what I was aiming for.

980
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:24.480
I was aiming for sacrifice of angels.

981
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:27.659
I really wanted to do something in that 1st off.

982
00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:29.940
I mean it managed to avoid all the episodes.

983
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.659
The 5 we haven't done and choose the one we have.

984
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:35.639
You put a bug in this thing.

985
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:37.800
Are you sure?

986
00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:38.280
not well.

987
00:58:38.340 --> 00:58:39.719
So the episode that we're doing.

988
00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:40.679
I mean, please.

989
00:58:41.639 --> 00:58:43.860
He's face nine.

990
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:46.199
Season six, episode 14.

991
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:48.599
One little ship.

992
00:58:48.659 --> 00:58:50.280
Oh, yes.

993
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:51.539
Let's do that.

994
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:52.500
That's awesome.

995
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:54.059
Come on, that's a great outcome.

996
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:56.400
Sacrifice of fucking angels.

997
00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:57.480
You've got to be kidding me.

998
00:58:57.539 --> 00:58:57.900
Fabulous.

999
00:58:57.960 --> 00:58:59.039
Let's do one little shit.

1000
00:58:59.099 --> 00:59:09.900
I mean, I'll do enough a bit where Bashir starts looking up and he realises a massive, defiant symbol is out the window and he's sort of upside down going, what the hell is that simple?

1001
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:10.980
Oh my god.

1002
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:14.159
Honey, I'll shrunk the runabout, Jesus Christ.

1003
00:59:14.519 --> 00:59:16.679
That's so much fun.

1004
00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:17.639
That's going to be great.

1005
00:59:17.699 --> 00:59:19.079
That's brilliant.

1006
00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:20.099
Gosh, that show's great.

1007
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:25.199
Is it the best hanging the lantern ever seen where Kira says at the start.

1008
00:59:25.260 --> 00:59:27.360
Are you seriously telling me?

1009
00:59:27.420 --> 00:59:31.980
We're going to shrink these people down to the size of coffee cups and she just falls apart.

1010
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:33.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1011
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:33.840
That's awesome.

1012
00:59:33.900 --> 00:59:34.380
That's great.

1013
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:36.780
She just makes complete fun of the premise.

1014
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:41.579
Oh, actually, it continues our run of Jem Hadar episodes as well.

1015
00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:42.420
Do you remember?

1016
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:46.139
This has got the alphas and the gammas.

1017
00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:47.159
The 2 sex.

1018
00:59:47.699 --> 00:59:52.019
The ones that were bred specifically in the Gamma Quadrant and the ones that were bred in the Alpha Quadrant.

1019
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:53.880
They don't get on at all.

1020
00:59:53.940 --> 00:59:55.679
There's a sort of hierarchy happening.

1021
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:56.760
Right, right, right.

1022
00:59:56.820 --> 00:59:57.059
Okay.

1023
00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:57.780
Oh, that's fun.

1024
00:59:57.840 --> 00:59:58.440
That sounds good.

1025
00:59:58.500 --> 00:59:59.820
I haven't watched that for ages.

1026
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:00.900
I remember it really well.

1027
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:02.219
It should be really, really fun.

1028
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:03.900
I'm looking forward to that.

1029
01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:06.059
And the last episode, all right.

1030
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:07.079
Don't say that.

1031
01:00:07.139 --> 01:00:08.400
Yeah, it'd probably be a disaster.

1032
01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:10.500
I seem to remember it being sort of mid-level.

1033
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:12.239
Let's go with that and then hope for the best.

1034
01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:13.079
Okay, all right.

1035
01:00:13.139 --> 01:00:14.099
Let's not get too excited.

1036
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:33.119
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1037
01:00:33.179 --> 01:00:38.639
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1038
01:00:38.699 --> 01:00:44.639
This episode was recorded on the 28th of July 2026 and released on the 31st of July.

1039
01:00:44.699 --> 01:00:49.380
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, One Little Ship.

1040
01:01:06.179 --> 01:01:17.219
So, I did watch the, um, the Strangely Worlds episode this week, and it was so good.

1041
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:18.900
It was so good.

1042
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:36.059
Yeah, they seem to have gone down pretty well, 60 minutes, and it did the, you know, that thing I complain about the, um, time can't be allowed to change, that it's wrong to change time, that if you do something nice for someone in the past, then that's wrong.

1043
01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:47.219
Um, And where, whereas I think it doesn't actually really matter when in time things are, you do the right thing, being nice to people is good and being bad to them is wrong.

1044
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:54.960
And so this really plays, but that it breaks those rules, and it made me appreciate Orphan 55 a little bit, where I know.

1045
01:01:55.019 --> 01:02:01.019
But where, you know, suddenly the rules of time have changed and we're in an alternative future, like we've just been travelling.

1046
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:10.739
We not in a parallel universe or anything like that, but we're just in a future where, um, humanity where, you know, climate change has destroyed the world.

1047
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:19.139
And although the episode doesn't manage to be about that, it kind of fails, but at least it presents a version of time where your choices have an impact.

1048
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:29.519
You know, like there's not just a right course of action, a thing that's supposed to happen irrespective of what choices lead to it or anything like that.

1049
01:02:29.579 --> 01:02:39.420
And so they go back in time and it's 65000000 years ago and they don't realise they're in Earth's solar system because there are 3 M class planets.

1050
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:45.900
And they meet this woman, this Englishwoman, this fantastic English guest star who is a Martian.

1051
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:57.420
She's literally from a planet Mars, which is still a going concern, and it's been attacked by people from the 5th planet, insect people from the 5th planet.

1052
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:01.380
Um, And so suddenly everything's different.

1053
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:03.960
You know, the past is different from what we expected.

1054
01:03:04.019 --> 01:03:05.159
We knew nothing about it.

1055
01:03:05.219 --> 01:03:06.719
We get to have dinosaurs.

1056
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:09.719
Laan punches a dinosaur in the face.

1057
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:14.340
Of course she does.

1058
01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:15.719
Fuck.

1059
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:22.860
Did you watch the video when the, in the, all of those people from Strange New Worlds are there and Christina's dog?

1060
01:03:22.860 --> 01:03:27.360
It's kind of, like, I sent it to you on Instagram.

1061
01:03:27.420 --> 01:03:38.460
So it's like, it's Christina's dog, the one that was licking her, her daycolitage in the Elysian Kingdom, and it's there while they're doing a convention panel thing.

1062
01:03:39.300 --> 01:03:46.920
I hope, I hope that the reception to this last series is like absolutely phenomenal.

1063
01:03:46.980 --> 01:03:55.800
I just want there to be a little bit of embarrassment about the paramount towers that have torn everything down. and they've just been like, oh, dear.

1064
01:03:55.860 --> 01:03:57.780
This is going down really well, right?

1065
01:03:57.840 --> 01:03:58.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1066
01:03:58.860 --> 01:03:59.579
Yeah.

1067
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:02.099
Maybe we should have kept going.

1068
01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:10.320
There's 15 more episodes left because there's another short season coming, like a 6 episode season coming next year. and we've still got another.

1069
01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:10.739
Last go.

1070
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:11.519
Well, there you go.

1071
01:04:11.579 --> 01:04:16.679
So that sort of gives a little time, hopefully, in the interim for something to emerge.

1072
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:20.099
But I'll tell you, I just think we're having a break, aren't we?

1073
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:21.840
But why is the king and queen?

1074
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:27.239
The king and queen are travelling in the Tartars to the Commonwealth Games.

1075
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:28.739
God knows.

1076
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:29.519
Who knows?

1077
01:04:29.579 --> 01:04:34.860
It's just like we're desperately trying to make Doctor Who happen, just to remind you that it's still a thing.

1078
01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:38.219
No one's made it. that's right.

1079
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:39.239
That's right.

1080
01:04:39.300 --> 01:04:40.679
That's so depressing isn't it?