WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:53:44

1
00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.899
Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:30.300
So, we're about to watch the 1st Voyager episode we've done for a

3
00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:37.799
little while, I think, and that is series 4's, The Raven, and I

4
00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:41.939
gather that you have things that you want to tell us about it.

5
00:00:42.179 --> 00:00:46.259
Well, yeah, I felt as if I had been letting the side down a little

6
00:00:46.259 --> 00:00:46.439
bit.

7
00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:48.659
Initially I was coming into this podcast and I said, you know

8
00:00:48.659 --> 00:00:48.840
what?

9
00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.179
going to be the trivia man and I'm going to bring lots of

10
00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:52.140
fascinating information.

11
00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.840
And I've been so excited about the last couple of episodes.

12
00:00:54.899 --> 00:01:00.299
We've just gone straight in However, this is a turning point of

13
00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:02.399
Voyager in a very big way.

14
00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:06.060
Not this particular episode, what is it, 6 in to season four, are

15
00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:06.299
we?

16
00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:06.659
Yeah.

17
00:01:06.659 --> 00:01:07.260
Yeah.

18
00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:12.659
But obviously it's Kez is out, 7 of 9's in, you know, so we're a

19
00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:13.920
woman for woman, thank goodness.

20
00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:16.500
It would be terrible if they got rid of Kes and brought in a

21
00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:16.920
bloke.

22
00:01:16.980 --> 00:01:17.760
Yeah, yeah.

23
00:01:17.819 --> 00:01:20.280
That was where this was going to go initially.

24
00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:26.519
So Brandon Bragger was watching Unity from series 3, which has a

25
00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:32.579
ball characters that are have been broken free of the collective

26
00:01:32.579 --> 00:01:35.700
and regaining their humanity.

27
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:37.439
They're trying to break free from the collective.

28
00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:42.719
And he's like, oh, my word, what if we had a Borg character on

29
00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:43.739
Voyager?

30
00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:45.959
And then immediately doubted himself.

31
00:01:46.019 --> 00:01:48.299
So he phones up Joe Manosky.

32
00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:51.659
I mean, I would not phone up Joe Manosky because he wrote, you

33
00:01:51.659 --> 00:01:54.540
know, masks and episodes like this, you know?

34
00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:56.760
Oh, no, he wrote The Thor as well, I think.

35
00:01:56.819 --> 00:01:58.500
He's great.

36
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:00.060
All the ones that are out there.

37
00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:01.500
They're the ones who wrote.

38
00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:05.579
And Germanoski goes, 0 my word, that is an amazing idea.

39
00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:07.620
Ring up Rick Berman now.

40
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:11.520
So, um, Brandon Bragg, it's really late in the night, he said, and

41
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:15.300
he rung up Rick Berman, who's like, this is a terrific idea.

42
00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:18.120
However, let's not make him a bloke.

43
00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:19.979
Let's make him a borg babe.

44
00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:21.360
Oh dear.

45
00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.759
Yeah, those were his exact words.

46
00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:28.680
And so this whole kind of cynicism around the idea of bringing in

47
00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:33.060
a female ball character, I think there may be perhaps some of it's

48
00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:33.479
warranted.

49
00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:35.460
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

50
00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:39.840
But, I mean, look where this ended up, you know.

51
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:45.240
The incredible thing is that she comes in, she's basically like

52
00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:49.560
very nearly a naked woman on the bridge, you know, like the skin

53
00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.280
tight outfit, she's wearing a slightly more modest one in this

54
00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.759
episode, the brown one, but the silver one that she starts off

55
00:02:56.759 --> 00:03:00.599
with, and just her breasts, like she's young.

56
00:03:00.659 --> 00:03:06.180
She's conventionally very, not just attractive, but very sexy in a

57
00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:08.219
sort of particular way.

58
00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.479
That grace or silver katsu is so terrible.

59
00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:14.699
Apparently she couldn't even sit down in that.

60
00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:18.240
It was so scary. get to stand up for a 14 hour day.

61
00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:20.099
Yeah, yeah.

62
00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:28.199
But what ends up happening is that she is smart and forceful, you

63
00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:29.460
know, she's clever.

64
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.500
She's self possessed.

65
00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:36.240
And so she ends up being a really, really strong female

66
00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:36.960
character.

67
00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:42.060
What's super interesting is they not only brought in an incredible

68
00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:43.800
actress to do it.

69
00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:46.080
And this could have gone horribly wrong, you know?

70
00:03:46.139 --> 00:03:47.759
Well, imagine if it was the other way around.

71
00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:49.139
It was Jennifer Leanne coming in.

72
00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:52.919
Who, you know, let's be honest, she's okay, but she's not, she's

73
00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:54.360
going to blow your socks off, is she?

74
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:59.280
They brought in Jerry Ryan, who is magnificently good.

75
00:03:59.699 --> 00:04:04.560
But not only that, they married that with genuine character

76
00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:05.280
development.

77
00:04:05.340 --> 00:04:10.560
But what feels like the 1st time in, uh, like, we'll go way back

78
00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:14.400
to TNG all the way through into, you know, 3 seasons of Voyager

79
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.259
and they've actually decided, no, we're going to take this

80
00:04:16.259 --> 00:04:16.560
character.

81
00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:17.579
We're going to develop them.

82
00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:20.339
You know, we're going to make them super interested and go on a

83
00:04:20.339 --> 00:04:20.939
journey with them.

84
00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:23.040
And it really, really worked.

85
00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:25.259
It worked for everybody except for one person.

86
00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:28.379
Yeah, Kate.

87
00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:29.459
Not happy.

88
00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:34.560
And it's kind of, it's kind of like the one wrinkle in Voyages

89
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:35.100
otherwise.

90
00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.079
You know, when they all get together for the, I'll talk about

91
00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.500
these fabulous, like, you know, anniversary get-togethers and

92
00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:42.120
stuff and they're, oh, we all loved each other.

93
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.100
Except for Kate Mulgrew and Jerry Ryan in series 4 or 5 of

94
00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:48.060
Voyager.

95
00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.800
And the problem is, Kate Mulgrew was supposed to be this very

96
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:54.420
strong female lead.

97
00:04:54.540 --> 00:04:57.000
And that probably should have been enough.

98
00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:03.720
You know, and and what she thought was, they need to bring in a

99
00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:10.500
younger, sexier woman in order to sell this show and, you know

100
00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:11.819
raise the ratings.

101
00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.040
So she's feeling like she's not good enough.

102
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:19.740
And she's staring down scenes with her, not her replacement, but

103
00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:23.220
her, maybe her better in the eyes of the producers.

104
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.160
And I have a quote here for you if you will indulge me.

105
00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:28.379
Because I think this is super interesting.

106
00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:32.939
The reason why I want to say this is because I think in season 4

107
00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:36.240
and 5 of Voyager, I think it goes away in 6 and 7 when I actually

108
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.939
started getting on and Jerry Ryan's dating Brenner Bragger and

109
00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:40.620
Kate Mulgrew's playing nice all of a sudden.

110
00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:48.360
Um, I think that the scenes between Janeway and 7 in series 4 and

111
00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.660
5 of Voyager are the best Voyager ever was.

112
00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.959
And it's because there's tension behind the scenes that they're so

113
00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:56.579
electrifying, but they're so good.

114
00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:58.740
Um, anyway.

115
00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:00.060
So the quote is this.

116
00:06:00.180 --> 00:06:02.819
Sorry, I can't stop talking, can I?

117
00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:05.399
So Kate Roger says this.

118
00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:07.019
Let me be very straight about something.

119
00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:09.180
This is on me, not Jerry.

120
00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.459
She came in and did what she was asked to do.

121
00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:13.860
No question about that, and she did it very well.

122
00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.459
It's on me because I'd hoped against hope that Janeway would be

123
00:06:17.459 --> 00:06:20.879
sufficient, that she didn't have to bring, sorry, that they didn't

124
00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.600
have to bring in a beautiful sexy girl, that somehow the power of

125
00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.680
my command, the vicissitudes of my talent would be sufficient onto

126
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:29.279
the date.

127
00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:31.079
I mean, it's okay, Bobby, with this, isn't it?

128
00:06:31.379 --> 00:06:35.279
Because that would really change television, wouldn't it?

129
00:06:35.339 --> 00:06:38.939
That's what dug me the hardest, that to pick up the numbers, they

130
00:06:38.939 --> 00:06:39.480
did that.

131
00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:42.959
That was my interpretation of it and that hurt me.

132
00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:46.379
I found it sort of insulting, and of course, she embodied the

133
00:06:46.379 --> 00:06:46.620
part.

134
00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.160
This beautiful girl, but we certainly were utterly professional.

135
00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:54.120
I've been nothing sure of completely professional and she did her

136
00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:55.439
job very well.

137
00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:58.920
It was a good idea that she was half Borg, but it was on me.

138
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.100
I'm sorry, it has to be a part of this legacy, and I probably

139
00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:04.019
should have comported myself better.

140
00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.620
I should have been more philosophical about it, but in the moment

141
00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:08.459
it was difficult.

142
00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:12.720
Which is an extraordinary, she's basically saying she didn't

143
00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:13.319
behave well.

144
00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:19.319
Yeah, but she was right though, because if you think about it

145
00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:24.000
female led TV shows or like genre shows like this.

146
00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:26.279
I mean, this is the 1st Star Trek with a female lead.

147
00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:33.779
We've got 2 running at the moment, but it was a big deal and, you

148
00:07:33.779 --> 00:07:37.019
know, like there is a kind of...

149
00:07:37.139 --> 00:07:39.180
There's a kind of feminist thing to it.

150
00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.459
She's a scientist, she's a strong leader.

151
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.620
She's a really, really good commander.

152
00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.399
It's a big step forward for, you know, the representation of women

153
00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:51.779
in genre, television, and then they decide midway through the run

154
00:07:51.779 --> 00:07:55.439
that to beef up the ratings, they're going to bring in a, you know

155
00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:00.180
like a beautiful, sexy young woman and dresser in skin tight

156
00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:00.660
clothing.

157
00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:02.579
And it is...

158
00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.579
I mean, you can almost imagine seeing Mulgrew seeing her that 1st

159
00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:08.279
time in that and begin, oh, this is exactly what I feared.

160
00:08:08.339 --> 00:08:10.800
Yeah, it's embarrassingly cynical.

161
00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:16.740
And the thing is, though, that because Jerry Ryan is so incredibly

162
00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:23.040
good and because they have to deal with a changeover, like it's

163
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.240
not just like, you know, recasting Darren Stevens or Becky Connor

164
00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.899
or something like that, they've got a new character in, there are

165
00:08:30.899 --> 00:08:31.860
new stories to tell.

166
00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.700
There's new relationships among the characters, and suddenly it

167
00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:38.279
really just gives them a shot in the arm, I think.

168
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:45.360
Well, and I think what Mulru couldn't have anticipated. is how

169
00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.659
electrified she would be against Jerry Ryan.

170
00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.379
And I think probably if she was asked now, those are her best

171
00:08:52.379 --> 00:08:56.279
moments in the show, you know, like the tension between, you don't

172
00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:58.799
have a lot of tension on Voyager. everyone's kind of playing nice

173
00:08:58.799 --> 00:08:59.279
aren't they?

174
00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:02.100
And I don't think there's much in this episode, to be fair.

175
00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:05.279
But boy, do they have some cracking rows throughout the series?

176
00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:08.700
There's that one episode where 7 of 9 is like, well, you know, fuck

177
00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:09.659
the prime directive.

178
00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:11.700
And Jane was like, you know, how dare you?

179
00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:15.059
This is like, you can get off the ship at the next stop if that's

180
00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:15.960
how you feel, you know.

181
00:09:16.019 --> 00:09:17.759
And it's like, this is really exciting.

182
00:09:17.820 --> 00:09:18.659
This is new.

183
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:19.259
This is fresh.

184
00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.240
Yeah, I love it.

185
00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:28.679
I, I, I, I think, Series 4 and 5 of Voyager, Stand Alone, as

186
00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:32.460
fantastic Burman era trek.

187
00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.820
And the hit rate of the episodes is really, really strong.

188
00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:37.620
And this is particularly a classic.

189
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.600
I do think there's quite a lot of good in this.

190
00:09:39.659 --> 00:09:41.580
Yeah, I think it's pretty highly regarded.

191
00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:43.980
Oh, what, the raven?

192
00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:44.820
Yeah, yeah.

193
00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.120
Oh, I don't really read many reviews. but yeah.

194
00:09:48.659 --> 00:09:51.480
But it's an exciting time for the show.

195
00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:54.779
So I think that's an interesting place for us to do our next

196
00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:55.440
commentary.

197
00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:57.179
Shall we get going then?

198
00:09:57.299 --> 00:09:59.399
Hey, I'm ready.

199
00:09:59.460 --> 00:10:02.279
All right, so I will count us in.

200
00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:09.960
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

201
00:10:13.019 --> 00:10:19.320
So I'm trying to decide whether this is Florence or Milan, and I'm

202
00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:20.399
going to go for Florence.

203
00:10:20.460 --> 00:10:23.759
I like to think that we have a big photo of Florence out the

204
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:24.059
window.

205
00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:25.980
There's quite a nice set.

206
00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:27.059
A nice heel.

207
00:10:27.179 --> 00:10:29.279
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a nice idea.

208
00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:32.700
I'm not sure the episode with Leonardo da Vinci in it, you know

209
00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:36.960
the one where Janeway's flying the plane off. concerning flights.

210
00:10:37.019 --> 00:10:38.399
It's pretty terrible episode.

211
00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:40.799
It's John Reese Davies, though, isn't it?

212
00:10:40.860 --> 00:10:45.000
It's Gimli from Lord of the Rings is Leonardo.

213
00:10:45.059 --> 00:10:47.700
I don't know why there's aliens invading the holodeck or

214
00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:48.179
something.

215
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:49.799
It's very, very strange.

216
00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:55.139
But as a quirkier. aesthetic and something different to look at

217
00:10:55.139 --> 00:10:56.100
it's very nice.

218
00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:59.759
Well, in fact, Voyager has always done this and I was thinking

219
00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:00.240
about it.

220
00:11:00.299 --> 00:11:03.779
They always have an additional set that is the holodeck and right

221
00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.379
back in series one, they have that sort of a bar in a French

222
00:11:07.379 --> 00:11:09.480
village, which they have as their bar.

223
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:11.580
That was rarely bettered.

224
00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:12.840
I don't know why they changed that.

225
00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:16.980
I really love the series 5 chaotic program, the black and white

226
00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:17.279
one.

227
00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:18.840
But all the others.

228
00:11:18.899 --> 00:11:20.519
Lord Burley's Manor.

229
00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:21.240
Oh, my.

230
00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:22.860
That terrible.

231
00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:25.919
Do you remember that tropical resort they go to?

232
00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:30.539
And then, of course, Fairhaven in Syria, yeah, yeah, yeah.

233
00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.120
I mean, it's hit or miss.

234
00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:35.159
I think we've always your holiday programs.

235
00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:39.059
But it is kind of a good idea because it does give us a break from

236
00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:43.860
the gray corridors and it gives us the sense that the crew are

237
00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:47.460
experiencing some kind of pop culture together because they're by

238
00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:48.179
themselves.

239
00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:52.139
And so they're all watching, you know, it's like watching Tiger

240
00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:58.200
King in isolation, you know, they're all experiencing Fairhaven at

241
00:11:58.200 --> 00:11:58.799
the same time.

242
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:01.620
Oh, terrible.

243
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:02.639
We nearly did that episode.

244
00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.379
Remember, you pulled Yeah, yeah, yeah.

245
00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:05.879
Spirit folk out of the bag.

246
00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:07.019
Honestly.

247
00:12:07.139 --> 00:12:11.759
I do like this, though, that Janeway is artistic, you know, as

248
00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:12.000
well.

249
00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:15.360
And then she likes to come somewhere a bit more contemplative away

250
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.279
from the boring old corridors of Voyager.

251
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:22.019
And so this conversation is about sort of imagination and

252
00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:27.419
creativity as a human thing that she can't see a good reason for.

253
00:12:27.539 --> 00:12:29.279
And his classic Star Trek, isn't it?

254
00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:32.519
You know, tell us of this human thing you call love.

255
00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:35.039
Like it's a bit cheesy.

256
00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:38.639
No, but, like, we watched all good things last time.

257
00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:41.639
Do you remember, I said, you know, there was that bollocks

258
00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.879
conversation between Picard and Q at the end where, you know, Q's

259
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.580
going, oh, it's all part of the human condition and we're all, you

260
00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:49.860
know, nodding our heads along with him going, oh, this is all very

261
00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:50.100
important.

262
00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:53.460
I think there's more in this one conversation here than there ever

263
00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:54.779
was in all good things, you know?

264
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:57.720
they're talking about something of substance.

265
00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:00.059
And something that plays into the episode.

266
00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:05.460
My favourite moment, which I didn't comment on is 7's absolutely

267
00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:11.159
listless attempts at kind of making a nose.

268
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.379
She's not one finger.

269
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:19.799
Because she's got that weird glove thing on with a sort of Borg

270
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:20.820
implant hand.

271
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.539
So she's got the rubber thing on and she's sort of just poking at

272
00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:24.720
it.

273
00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:28.019
I want to see Nathan, the size of this set.

274
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.200
That's an entire sound stage, I think.

275
00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:32.759
It is pretty big.

276
00:13:34.139 --> 00:13:36.360
In fact, oh, okay.

277
00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:39.059
I just want to talk about this, Imagery on the Borg ship, because

278
00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:40.980
we've seen a lot of Borg ships at this point, right?

279
00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.080
I actually think these sequences are they're done in slow motion.

280
00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:50.519
Um, and I do, I just think the image, they are there, look, of the

281
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:55.379
the raven in slow motion. pursuing her through the Borg ship.

282
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.480
And it's lit really well as well.

283
00:13:57.539 --> 00:13:59.940
Yeah, that shot there.

284
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.559
That raven shot, which is I'm taking a screen cap from it for the

285
00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:05.039
website.

286
00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:10.919
It's really good I think there are problems with how this is

287
00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:13.019
directed and it's LaVar Burton, isn't it?

288
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.460
It is love him.

289
00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.600
Well, we do, but unfortunately, he is not the most dynamic of Star

290
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:19.200
Trek directors.

291
00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:20.399
We need to be honest about this.

292
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:25.379
Weirdly enough, there's a few episodes, you know, action oriented

293
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:26.460
episodes, like, to the deaf.

294
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:30.360
Do you remember that one where the Defiant has to go off with the

295
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.340
Gemadar to find the Iconian Gateway?

296
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:33.659
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

297
00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:35.039
There's a massive fight at the end.

298
00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:37.559
He can do, he can make Star Trek very exciting.

299
00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:40.740
But very often it's a bit ploddy.

300
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:42.539
He's pretty good with character stuff.

301
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.059
He's good with getting decent performances out of people.

302
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:45.840
As he does here?

303
00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:46.320
Who does that?

304
00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:46.860
Yeah, yeah.

305
00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:48.000
I think he does that here.

306
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:50.399
Ah, look.

307
00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:52.139
Boy, you're going for a nebula.

308
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:53.879
Yeah, you love to see it.

309
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.279
I'm sorry.

310
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:58.679
You can keep your visually dynamic.

311
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:00.779
There's been strict sequences.

312
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.179
I'll watch spaceships going through nebulas.

313
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:04.679
I'm perfectly happy.

314
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.179
You can always watch lower decks for that sort of tidal sequence, I

315
00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:09.360
guess.

316
00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:10.559
That's hilarious.

317
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:11.759
I love that gi sequence.

318
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:16.259
The apologetic looking alien and fucking away his arse.

319
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.580
That's really funny.

320
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:18.659
So funny.

321
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:19.799
Very good.

322
00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:21.960
Have you seen this in 4K?

323
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:23.220
I think I might mention this before.

324
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:27.779
I think I've watched I think I've watched an upscaled 4K's.

325
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:29.340
Yeah, it's incredible.

326
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:30.059
It looks terrific.

327
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:37.320
Um And I have to say, this is one of the title musics that I will

328
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.879
listen through every single time.

329
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:40.200
I really like the voyage music.

330
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.620
Yeah, I think like...

331
00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:47.039
It's not very dynamic though, is it?

332
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:49.799
It is a little bit, it's not very complicated.

333
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:55.679
Um, in a way where the, these days when you've got Michael

334
00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.460
Jacquino or Jeff Russo doing the music, it's a lot more

335
00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:00.419
interesting, I think.

336
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:01.500
Pretty, though.

337
00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.139
I don't mind pretty and complicated. you know?

338
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:05.159
Yeah.

339
00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:10.500
Although the music generally here is again pretty...

340
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.179
I'm not having this conversation with you again.

341
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:13.559
I or lacklass.

342
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:13.860
Okay.

343
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.879
Skip forward 20 years and bring all those musicians back.

344
00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:18.360
Come on.

345
00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:25.799
So this actually is a relationship that ends up being really

346
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.980
strong as well is the doctor.

347
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:32.039
But I want to comment on her performance.

348
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:33.659
I think it's really weird.

349
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:38.519
Like watching this again, this is not what she lands on as her 7

350
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:39.299
of 9 performance.

351
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.919
You know what it is, isn't it?

352
00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:43.139
I think she goes to the same coach as Margaret Thatcher.

353
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.820
They're like, no, bring your voice down love.

354
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:46.379
They're more masculine.

355
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:47.519
You're being far too feminine.

356
00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:52.080
Yeah, she's really much girlier and she seems much more

357
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:52.679
tentative.

358
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:58.919
You know, 7 is incredibly direct and very blunt and she has a

359
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.139
deeper voice than she has here.

360
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:08.400
And even now, now she's in Picard as a regular, and she's dropped

361
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:13.200
all the kind of, you know, space Star Trek alien talk.

362
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:18.900
She still sounds like she ends up sounding in this. is very

363
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:19.200
different.

364
00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:22.680
I'm going to say something to you now and you're not going to lie

365
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:23.160
here.

366
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:24.839
What's that?

367
00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:28.559
I think she's the weakest regular in Picard.

368
00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:30.180
Wow, that's interesting.

369
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.720
And I don't think there's a great deal to her, and I certainly I

370
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.019
watched series 2, episode one of Picard this week, and she kind of

371
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:37.980
irritated me a bit.

372
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.039
Everybody else, I really enjoy being around, but she was just kind

373
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.920
of churning out the same old cliches that she was here.

374
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:46.019
She's hardly in.

375
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.599
She doesn't get that much to do in that episode, I think.

376
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.319
But yeah, the regulars are strong. before that show.

377
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:53.220
It's, you're right.

378
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:54.539
It's not what she settles on.

379
00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:58.380
It's quite thoughtful, and it's appealing as well.

380
00:17:58.440 --> 00:17:59.579
She's a bit childlike.

381
00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:07.440
I think, though, that the performance that she lands on, we'll

382
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.039
talk about the, we'll talk about the, um, her performance in that

383
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.640
sort of final scene in the, in the raven itself.

384
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:19.500
There's a glorious sequence in a minute coming up and uh, 0 man, I

385
00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:21.119
can't believe I'm going to say this to you because you're just

386
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.240
going to say, I told you so, where it's terrific.

387
00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:27.119
Neelix is amazing and he's teaching her how to eat and swallow.

388
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:28.980
And it's such a simple scene.

389
00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:32.279
And the way the 2 of them play it, and she's so childlike.

390
00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:34.500
It is basically like a baby learning how to eat.

391
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.480
And I think that that's it.

392
00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:42.960
She's playing it as unsure of herself because she, you know, she's

393
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.599
in a new world, new environment.

394
00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:46.619
Oh my god.

395
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.059
Here we go.

396
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.920
These aliens are so shit.

397
00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:54.720
They so bad.

398
00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:57.059
Holy crap.

399
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.059
They look like people have shoved wire coat hangers over the red.

400
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:05.519
So they, there's no sort of unifying idea of what they look like.

401
00:19:05.579 --> 00:19:09.720
It is just sort of bung a heap of Star Trek latex shit on their

402
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:10.200
faces.

403
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:15.299
I think they look a bit like the Hirogen, but we've kind of...

404
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:20.220
But the Hirogen have a more definite look and they're about

405
00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:20.640
something.

406
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:22.200
Look at their outfit.

407
00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:23.400
The fuck are these guys?

408
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:26.220
Those clothes are terrible.

409
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.519
Do you remember, do you remember Kate Mulgrew, Sam?

410
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.059
They kept her in these bloody stupid aliens in front.

411
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.079
They were testing us, all right?

412
00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:35.519
They were testing our acting ability.

413
00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:36.539
Well this is definitely it.

414
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.319
Don't you fight like, don't you quite like the fact that it's like

415
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:44.279
this bureaucratic nightmare where they're trying to cut time off

416
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.920
of, and yet they're making them go all around the house?

417
00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:50.819
I did think it was faintly amusing as a people.

418
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.220
But they needed to lean into it.

419
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.579
Like they needed either to make them properly funny or to make

420
00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:58.140
them properly threatening.

421
00:19:58.200 --> 00:19:59.460
What you mean, not funny?

422
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.579
translate as malfunctioning.

423
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:04.619
But they're bad.

424
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.619
You know, like they're not they're not comedy aliens.

425
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.279
They're just sort of bad, stupid, intransigent aliens.

426
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:15.779
And like, it looks like they're kind of like, oh, now there's this

427
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:16.140
scene.

428
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:17.400
We'll get back to the Beaumart.

429
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:20.279
There's plenty of time to slag off at them. so shit.

430
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.039
But this is a lovely scene.

431
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:25.140
And I'm right about Ethan Phillips.

432
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.839
He is good and he's very good in this scene.

433
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:30.660
Oh, he can be good.

434
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.700
He was often written very shit.

435
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.059
Yeah, but the performance is extremely well here.

436
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:40.559
And I really love, there's a tiny moment in a 2nd where she very

437
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.640
casually says, well, we assimilated a load of Talaxians and he

438
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.099
very gently looks at her and was like, oh, I didn't know that.

439
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.339
And he doesn't react and he knows he's got to kind of got to make

440
00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:51.900
her comfortable and how they feel.

441
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:53.279
Yeah, he's really shaken though.

442
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.019
He's visibly shaken, I think.

443
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:56.220
It's good.

444
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.740
But I like it.

445
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:02.579
See, see, this is the Neelix that I like who is a little bit

446
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:03.359
thoughtful.

447
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.799
You know, like the sitcom Neelix that's thrown spaghetti at Tom

448
00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:10.319
Paris or is jealous over Kez.

449
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:12.420
Yeah, no, that's awful. nonsense.

450
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:13.859
No, that's dreadful.

451
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:14.279
Yeah.

452
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:18.119
Or, you know, throwing a function every 2 minutes, like, you know

453
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.599
Mr. Vulcan, you're gonna, you're gonna enjoy this Vulcan ceremony

454
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:22.619
whether you like it or not.

455
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:24.539
You know, oh, that's a bit tedious.

456
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.019
But when he gets like one-on-one scenes and he gets good scenes

457
00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:31.440
with like Belana Torres as well that I can remember, there's some

458
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.740
nice scenes he has with Naomi Wildman in series 67.

459
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.500
It's when he behaves like a person.

460
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:38.519
That's what it is.

461
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:40.200
What about this, right?

462
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:42.299
The Chandre Cobb or whatever.

463
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:47.880
He says, I'll steam it because that'll be good for your

464
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:48.960
digestion.

465
00:21:49.019 --> 00:21:50.160
I won't stir fry it.

466
00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:51.059
What's this?

467
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:52.920
It's a what...

468
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:53.519
What's that?

469
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:57.299
love that.

470
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.420
Do you remember Janeway's reaction when he took over the...

471
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.619
I mean, that was her personal dining room, wasn't it?

472
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:06.539
And that was her space to eat.

473
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.160
That entire room.

474
00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:11.460
And Phoenix was like, well, it's a bit selfish, doesn't it?

475
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.319
came over to the crew.

476
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.539
Yeah.

477
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.660
Yeah, but this this is a very gentle scene.

478
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:20.759
Yeah, very warmly played.

479
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:21.539
I really like it.

480
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.099
Very slow, though.

481
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:24.720
It's so...

482
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:25.740
Never slowed.

483
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:27.299
I don't mind they're slow.

484
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:31.500
But I mean, I mean, you know, like I'm happy to have quiet

485
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:36.119
character scenes, but this is like...

486
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.819
Did you not watch that scene between Patrick Stewart and Ola Brady

487
00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:43.559
this week when they nearly kissed?

488
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:44.339
It went on forever.

489
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.539
So good.

490
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.980
I was like, get up with it.

491
00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:47.700
Get into bed.

492
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:55.019
Giving me like business, like making him cook and serve food and

493
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:55.319
stuff.

494
00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:58.200
Like normally on Star Trek, they're either sort of just standing

495
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:02.640
around talking or maybe listlessly firing guns at one another, but

496
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.940
you know, like he has to serve the food and put forks down.

497
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:10.559
And it actually absolutely kills the price of the scene because

498
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:16.140
there's so much business. like where, where, where it gets the

499
00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:19.319
domestic thing across, but quartz bar is usually like a hub of, of

500
00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.259
like social activity and it's got fabulous strengths.

501
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.000
Remember that ones where he's got the war core breach?

502
00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:26.400
If you see him, it all bubbles over.

503
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:27.119
It's amazing.

504
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.359
I think I really like this.

505
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:31.440
And you know what?

506
00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:36.240
They do this for an entire episode in Series 6 when Tuvok gets

507
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:37.380
reverted back to a chart.

508
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:38.759
I can't remember exactly what happened.

509
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:41.460
And Neenix has to teach him how to be an adult again.

510
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.700
And it's this, this scene for 40 minutes.

511
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.380
Choo choo.

512
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:47.039
It is.

513
00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.519
It's, I think it's really good.

514
00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:51.660
I think he is great.

515
00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:53.400
Do you know what?

516
00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:54.599
I'm going to make a concession with you.

517
00:23:55.980 --> 00:24:01.319
I think perhaps that 90s trek could be a little pacier.

518
00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:02.460
Yeah.

519
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.819
But I also think that Kursman Trek could be a little slower.

520
00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:08.460
And I think there is a happy media somewhere.

521
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:12.000
And I think there's some Kurtzman episodes which are slower, which

522
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.480
really appeals to me, and there's some 90 strict episodes, or

523
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.599
something like the Sacrifice of Angels, that go by in a lick, you

524
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:19.680
know, that are very good.

525
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:24.299
You know, the original intention was just, you know, 7 goes crazy

526
00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:27.119
and starts assimilating people and attacking the ship.

527
00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:31.559
And that was kind of it, and it was going to be an action thing.

528
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:37.380
And they decided, well, there's nothing to that, and we have to

529
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:39.599
make it, give it some character focus.

530
00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:42.059
And so that's where the raven comes from.

531
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:43.200
I ask a question.

532
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:43.920
Yeah.

533
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:48.180
Well, she's seeing a raven because the ship's called the USS raven

534
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:48.359
right?

535
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:50.819
But, well, why is she seeing it all as imagery?

536
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.079
Like, I can't understand that.

537
00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:55.019
Is it just to make it a bit more interesting?

538
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:56.099
Okay.

539
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.940
So this is a little bit like brothers.

540
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.500
So data goes, uh, it goes sort of rogue in brothers.

541
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:06.359
I know what you're going to say here.

542
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:07.740
And it's much better.

543
00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:08.759
Here we are.

544
00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:13.079
Years later, and it's far slower than it was in brothers. and more

545
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:14.880
boring and less kind of competent.

546
00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:16.319
This is my bit more.

547
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:19.259
Are your translator's malfunctioning?

548
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.079
It's such a bizarre delivery.

549
00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:23.759
Yeah, yeah, but what are they doing?

550
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:24.960
Like, what are they doing?

551
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:25.799
Are they funny?

552
00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:27.180
Like, what's happening?

553
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.039
Are they, what are they?

554
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:31.440
Yeah, but you know what?

555
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:34.140
If you go through Voyages Run, you could do a whole pocketbook

556
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:36.720
full of these aliens that they meet along the way, these

557
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.799
forgettable aliens. sort of shitty intransigent aliens who exist

558
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:44.460
only to, so that there's someone firing on them at the, at the

559
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:44.940
climax?

560
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.599
Do you remember the fabulous episode, Dreadnaught, where Balana

561
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.240
Torres has to go inside and diffuse a bulb?

562
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.279
It's got her own personality.

563
00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:54.599
So she's basically fine.

564
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:59.279
But they keep talking to this civilisation on a screen saying, well

565
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.619
the bomb's coming, get away, and they couldn't be more boring.

566
00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.200
Why do we care about these people?

567
00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:05.279
Just send the bomb their way.

568
00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:06.599
Yeah, that's right.

569
00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:11.579
It's the famous Veridian 3 problem. from Star Trek generations.

570
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:13.500
We never see Beridian 3.

571
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.299
We don't give a shit about reading.

572
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.700
But we're supposed to care about it for some reason.

573
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:20.579
Well, it's like you said in descent, isn't it?

574
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:21.720
As soon as we went down to.

575
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:22.559
What was our planet called?

576
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.660
No, I can't even remember now.

577
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.039
Space Planet 10.

578
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:27.359
Yeah, yeah.

579
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.220
We were like, well, why do we care about this?

580
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.440
I didn't think this was too terrible.

581
00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:38.519
I quite, you know, it isn't the most exciting Star Trek's ever

582
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:38.759
been.

583
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:42.480
It's very, very leisurely.

584
00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:45.720
Like they're just sort of strolling around shooting at her.

585
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:50.220
And I think, you know, there's just, I don't know.

586
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:53.940
I don't know, I want someone to move the camera. jiggle the camera

587
00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:55.259
do something, have.

588
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.240
You want Jonathan Craiks to come in with a drone.

589
00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:01.559
That's right. rolling around the bridge.

590
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:04.680
I mean, that was a bizarre.

591
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:05.460
Did you see that shot there?

592
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.420
The camera was on the floor.

593
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.579
What, you know, just walk away from it?

594
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.539
Yeah, yeah.

595
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.619
Yeah, but look at it.

596
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.759
She walks very slowly.

597
00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:15.480
Let's just watch her in the lift now.

598
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:16.920
Here she is operating a lift.

599
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:20.339
Actually, you're right, you know, because I can remember in the

600
00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:21.839
episode that we always talk about.

601
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.000
So when we get it, we'll be so excited, the game.

602
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:27.420
There's a sequence where Wesley Crushers chased all over the ship

603
00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:28.680
and it's really exciting.

604
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.859
Yeah, you can do it in 90s trek on this budget.

605
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.599
It isn't a budgetary problem.

606
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:35.220
I mean, this is okay.

607
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:36.660
We've got a steady cam shot.

608
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:40.859
That's something, but she just she just casually walks through in

609
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:41.640
a 2nd, didn't she?

610
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:43.019
She's got a forced gun around.

611
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.579
She just wanders off, you know?

612
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:46.079
Yeah, yeah, here she comes.

613
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:47.819
Well, she looks great with that weapon.

614
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:49.980
You know, I'm not the sole person to normally notice this sort of

615
00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:55.259
thing. her breasts are highly accentuated within that costume

616
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:55.680
aren't they?

617
00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:56.400
Yeah, yeah.

618
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:57.599
No, you can't not notice it.

619
00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:01.079
Now, for me to notice that, it has to be pretty extreme.

620
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:02.460
That's all I'm saying.

621
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:02.880
Yeah.

622
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:04.200
No, I agree.

623
00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:06.240
And it is astonishing.

624
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:07.920
So it is what I said before.

625
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:10.799
It's basically a naked woman wandering around the ship.

626
00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:13.200
That isn't a costume they settle on, is it?

627
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:13.859
Later on.

628
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:14.519
She has...

629
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:16.079
Oh no, she has a blue version, doesn't she?

630
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:17.099
But it's basically the same thing.

631
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.160
Yeah, yeah, it's always like a cat suit. you know.

632
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:21.779
I mean don't get me wrong.

633
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.019
Like, she's got... beautiful women are beautiful.

634
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:25.920
Breasts are fantastic.

635
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:26.519
All of that.

636
00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:29.460
I'm sure that this gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure.

637
00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:35.819
But I'm glad that she's more than that and much, much more than

638
00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:36.059
that.

639
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.359
If I was wearing that, you'd see my fabulous breaths as well, you

640
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.819
know, like, yeah, well, I'm wearing it now.

641
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.920
I'm not saying word.

642
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:50.160
Oh, there we go.

643
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.380
Oh, and she slammed.

644
00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.799
That was very stately in the way that the shuttle pod came out.

645
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:57.480
They've lost another shuttle pod.

646
00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:03.119
Oh, yeah, yeah. the episode where Jakot has the nerve to say we've

647
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:05.519
got a full a full complement of shuttle pods.

648
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:07.559
I'm like, are you kidding me?

649
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:11.039
Maybe they have the replicator then?

650
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:13.440
that they have in Star Trek prodigy.

651
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.000
I haven't got the Delta Fly yet, have they?

652
00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:18.779
No.

653
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:20.039
And now series 5, I think.

654
00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:20.519
Yeah.

655
00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:21.420
Oh, here we go.

656
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:22.200
The Beaumont again.

657
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:24.660
Even the name's annoying.

658
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.480
It's it's Bo apostrophe, 0 my.

659
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:27.839
Yeah, yeah.

660
00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.000
Of course it's got a fucking apostrophe in it.

661
00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:34.140
It's a space name from the space name sovereignty.

662
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:39.119
Like, are they, are they like Soviet Russia, you know, where you

663
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:42.480
have to, you have to submit a travel plan and you're not allowed

664
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.000
to go near any facilities and stuff like that.

665
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:48.900
Like, are they a totalitarian thing?

666
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.980
Or are they just like 2 fucking assholes covered in latex?

667
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:54.660
I knew you were going to say later.

668
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:58.140
You're obsessed, man.

669
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.180
Don't watch Enterprise winner. took all the latex out of that.

670
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:04.619
They didn't.

671
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.880
The reason why we know this is so disposable, though. is because

672
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.099
at the end they just go, oh, well, we'll have to go around it

673
00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:11.519
won't we?

674
00:30:11.579 --> 00:30:12.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

675
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:14.579
What was the bloody point of that then?

676
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:19.980
Yeah, and I get a sort of, there's a reference to the gift in

677
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:22.920
there where she says there's no shortcut this time.

678
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:26.099
And so that's a reference to a few episodes ago where they got

679
00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:29.160
flung, what, an extra 10,000 light years or something.

680
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:31.859
I think that's one of the best episodes of Voyager, the gift.

681
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:36.059
It is purely focussed on 3 fabulously strong women.

682
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:37.079
It's wonderful.

683
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:39.059
Yeah, it's really, really great.

684
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:43.859
I do think that Cass is underrated, and we did like her a lot.

685
00:30:43.859 --> 00:30:44.400
Yeah, I do too.

686
00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:46.799
In the, what was the episode that we did?

687
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:48.059
Can't remember.

688
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:48.839
With the doctor?

689
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:51.359
Oh, the swarm.

690
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:51.900
The swarm.

691
00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:52.319
Yeah.

692
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:54.240
Oh, another disposable alien.

693
00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:56.460
But much less shit than the Boma.

694
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:57.839
So there's that.

695
00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:01.680
I believe that we should perhaps use the Beaumar as our level now

696
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.579
of shit.

697
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.059
And we'll just say, are they better or worse than the moment?

698
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.400
Do they come worse than the Boma?

699
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:09.779
Boma are very bad.

700
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.160
You remember the male on?

701
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:12.180
They like big turds.

702
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:17.460
But at least they have an ethos, you know.

703
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:20.700
I look a bit like the Santarans.

704
00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:21.359
They really do.

705
00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:25.619
He thinks they've been looking over their shoulders, you know, the

706
00:31:25.619 --> 00:31:25.980
designs.

707
00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:28.559
What is this all about?

708
00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:30.119
Harry Kim.

709
00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:33.779
Okay, a couple of episodes ago, a hurricane and 7 of nine were in

710
00:31:33.779 --> 00:31:35.460
a Jeffrey Stube together.

711
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.240
Yeah, 7 of 9 said, um, are you flirting?

712
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:41.220
Please remove your clothes.

713
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.599
Which is hilarious because he basically, you know, pees his

714
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:45.839
pants.

715
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:49.740
Now there's this kind of influence that like he's, you know

716
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:53.039
heavily into her and it doesn't really go anywhere, does it?

717
00:31:53.099 --> 00:31:53.460
No.

718
00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.319
No.

719
00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:59.400
I mean, look, they're trying to work out what to do with the

720
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:00.059
characters.

721
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.319
Like you drop 7 into this crew and you go, well, what sort of

722
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:06.420
relationship does she have with it, everyone?

723
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:12.119
And it's the same thing they do with Ezri in, yeah, in Deep Space

724
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:12.480
9.

725
00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:13.500
I think it's good.

726
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:17.279
I think I think it's so interesting that Ezra comes late in the

727
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:20.460
day because those relationships are so established.

728
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.700
Suddenly, everything's reorganised.

729
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:26.700
And I really, really like that in the last season.

730
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.039
I know it doesn't really give her a lot of time, but anyway.

731
00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:32.339
Why is it that you said to me, you really like it when they drop

732
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:33.180
in the new character?

733
00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:34.019
Why is that?

734
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:37.079
I think that it...

735
00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:43.980
So TV isn't just something that you author because it's really

736
00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:46.380
subject to outside forces.

737
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.660
And so, you know, there's the Babylon 5 idea, the J.

738
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:55.200
Michael Strazinsky idea where everything's plotted out, you know

739
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.559
meticulously for 7 series or something like that, you know exactly

740
00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:59.700
where the show's going.

741
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.460
And of course, that doesn't even happen to him because he loses

742
00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:03.539
his lead, doesn't he?

743
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:04.140
in Babylon 5.

744
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:04.740
I don't know.

745
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:05.400
Yeah...

746
00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:07.380
He needed his lead and then really early.

747
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.099
He planned it to be an extra season long and they truncated it.

748
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:12.480
So he rushed.

749
00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:14.400
No, no, he thought it was only going to be 4 series.

750
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:17.099
So he rushed the ending and then they gave him another series as

751
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:18.059
well. follow up.

752
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:19.019
I'll finish the story.

753
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:19.740
What do I do?

754
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:20.759
Yeah.

755
00:33:20.819 --> 00:33:25.019
And I like that because it means that they're not entirely in

756
00:33:25.019 --> 00:33:28.859
control, that our world influences the world of the fiction.

757
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.119
And so you...

758
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:31.619
Oh, these big line approach, isn't it?

759
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:32.700
We make it up as we go along.

760
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:34.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

761
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:38.039
Well, what Deep Space 9 does is it looks at its characters and

762
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:43.740
sees what they do well and then tries to throw things at them.

763
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.400
And that's Ron Moore's kind of, and you said Ira Bear.

764
00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:50.519
They go, they go, oh, this Vedic Borau is a bit boring. will kill

765
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:50.819
him off.

766
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.640
But this Garak, he's working very well.

767
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:54.599
Yeah, yeah.

768
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:55.500
Yeah.

769
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:57.059
Yeah.

770
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:58.740
So I like it.

771
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.380
It gets them to sit down and kind of reevaluate things.

772
00:34:01.380 --> 00:34:05.640
And, you know, they set up relationships in the pilot and some of

773
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:06.839
them work and some of them don't.

774
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.300
And this gives them a chance to kind of do it again.

775
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.400
Well, do you know what this is?

776
00:34:11.460 --> 00:34:14.639
You know, you know how you love a series 2 episode one.

777
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:17.400
I think we've had one of those, yeah, have we, for any of the

778
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:17.639
series?

779
00:34:17.699 --> 00:34:18.599
No.

780
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:24.960
Well, essentially, I would say that in series 2, episode one of

781
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:28.380
Voyager, not a lot is happening. 37s, so not a lot happening

782
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:28.679
there.

783
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:32.460
Yeah, it's a bit confused about what the 1st episode is, is it?

784
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:35.340
probably this season, it's technically their series too, isn't

785
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:35.519
it?

786
00:34:35.579 --> 00:34:40.500
It's certainly the biggest deviation from the the original show.

787
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.300
Yeah, yeah.

788
00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:45.960
Do you remember they had Borg things all over the ship and for one

789
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.000
side of the moment.

790
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:50.460
I thought it's going to stay like that.

791
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.260
But of course it doesn't.

792
00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:55.860
I'm going to say something extreme now, but I actually almost had

793
00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:58.679
an orgasm when in the gift, right?

794
00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:01.380
At the end of Scorpion, they've suffered all this damage.

795
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:05.039
And in the gift, it starts and it's still damaged.

796
00:35:05.099 --> 00:35:06.780
I was like, oh, man.

797
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.840
Consequences in firm and trek, you know.

798
00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:10.320
Yeah.

799
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:13.139
Of course, in the next episode it was shining.

800
00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:13.920
It's all fine.

801
00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:14.579
Yeah.

802
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.760
But even so, we'll take it for a single episode.

803
00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:21.300
Okay, what's occurring now?

804
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.260
I've completely lost the plot.

805
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.019
Yeah, no, I have as well, but too...

806
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:26.460
I'm honest. find her.

807
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:29.699
So she's escaped, obviously, crashing through the shuttle door

808
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:30.300
thing.

809
00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:33.659
And Tuvoc and Paris are going to rescue her.

810
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.960
Now, one of the things that I thought was a little bit shit here

811
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.900
was that she seemed to go crazy and want to be a Borg for space

812
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:40.500
reasons.

813
00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:44.940
And what other reasons are there?

814
00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:48.420
There needed to be kind of character reasons.

815
00:35:48.539 --> 00:35:52.019
And it's that thing.

816
00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:55.920
We talked about it in descent where data gets turned evil because

817
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.800
law sends him a beam of some kind.

818
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:05.460
Here she seems to be turning into a Borg or go, right, oh, Christ

819
00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:06.539
there's a Boma again.

820
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:11.460
What's the only thing there's even more shit than the terrible

821
00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:15.119
design of those shovels and that's the Beaumar fleet that she's

822
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:15.420
facing.

823
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.320
How do you like the shuttles?

824
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:17.579
No, it was so boring.

825
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:20.940
When we were watching Discovery the other day, they were all sleek

826
00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:21.599
and gorgeous.

827
00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:24.000
You know, oh, it looks amazing to me.

828
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.960
That's 32nd century technology, though, and design.

829
00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:31.199
I think this is the shuttles are all right.

830
00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:31.800
You know.

831
00:36:31.860 --> 00:36:34.139
I think it looks a bit like an eggbox, if you ask me.

832
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:37.199
Oh my god.

833
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.860
Did you see that terrible blocking there where Chewbok was in

834
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:41.639
front of the camera, right?

835
00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:43.619
And Tom Paris has to turn around and say something.

836
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.099
He's right behind him and then on cue, he turns around into shot.

837
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:50.460
You know, like, Robert Duncan Vanil is actually waiting there for

838
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:51.000
his cue.

839
00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:53.699
Hiding their own team, Ross.

840
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:58.860
Some of the blocking in 90s tracking, something else.

841
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:01.980
So Tuvok's going over there.

842
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:06.659
And so we get a scene between 7 and Tuvok, and I always worry

843
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:12.239
about scenes between 7 and Tuvok, because they both speak stupid

844
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:16.739
Star Trek, alien contractions.

845
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:19.800
Yeah, and it's kind of no inflection.

846
00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:21.539
They're supposed to be emotionless.

847
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.539
I'm annoying because they're both really good actors.

848
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:28.260
Well, I actually think that they both managed to make it clear

849
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:32.579
what their characters are feeling and to give the thing some

850
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:35.219
emotional content just by being a bit subtle.

851
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.519
This is a shitty fist type, though.

852
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.119
I mean, every time they do it in a shovel.

853
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:42.780
It so funny.

854
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:46.079
Even that, I mean, that's really bad.

855
00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:50.400
Although the idea that she disables him using the Vulcan nerve

856
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:52.380
pinch is pretty damn great.

857
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.059
Like that's a great idea.

858
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:58.260
There was one episode, right, in the show, without a fight, and

859
00:37:58.260 --> 00:38:01.559
they were so desperate for things to do without space, that he's

860
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:04.139
trying, the terrorist is trying to press the button, right?

861
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.920
to set off this nuclear weapon and destroy the wormhole.

862
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:10.559
And Kira just grabs his leg and she's tugging him.

863
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:15.900
It's like the worst pie ever. funny.

864
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.760
Oh bless them.

865
00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:19.320
I like this too.

866
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:20.519
He's sneaking up behind her.

867
00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:23.340
We get the shot of the back of her neck, which makes it look like

868
00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:27.239
he's going to come up to her, and then she's put the force field

869
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:27.599
in.

870
00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:29.280
She's so cool, isn't she?

871
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.199
It's a force village.

872
00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:31.800
You can't get in.

873
00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:32.340
No, she knows.

874
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:33.599
Yeah, yeah.

875
00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.639
You can't phase her, really, can you?

876
00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:36.960
No.

877
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:41.940
I have made jokes about this sort of blocking before with one

878
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:45.179
character talking to another character's back, but I think it

879
00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:47.099
works here.

880
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.699
You know, she's now turned around to talk to him.

881
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:52.980
But I think this is good.

882
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:59.820
I think this is properly good and there's a space reason why she

883
00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:00.840
rushes off.

884
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:01.860
Right.

885
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.380
And all those implants sprout.

886
00:39:05.219 --> 00:39:09.420
But it's not the space reason that's important.

887
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:14.280
It is the fact that we've had a conversation with Janeway about

888
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:19.199
rediscovering our humanity, with talk to Neelix, and we're eating

889
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.659
food for the 1st time.

890
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:26.099
We're starting to become human.

891
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:30.059
And it's when that happens that she get these, she gets these

892
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:31.199
hallucinations.

893
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:37.440
And she admits here to Tuvok that these hallucinations aren't

894
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:41.400
caused by the space signal that she's receiving.

895
00:39:41.460 --> 00:39:47.579
So these hallucinations are her genuinely confused and repressed

896
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:52.739
memories of being assimilated and the fear associated with that.

897
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:56.400
So this isn't her reasserting her Borgness at all.

898
00:39:56.460 --> 00:39:59.099
This is her reasserting her humanity.

899
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:00.539
And I kind of like that.

900
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:02.880
Well, it's unique as well, isn't it?

901
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:06.480
Because it's Voyager and this Voyager very rarely did this.

902
00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:10.679
They're taking something we understand from the next generation

903
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:15.119
and giving like throwing a new light on it and giving it a bit

904
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:16.619
more depth and a bit more context.

905
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.059
I like the fact that we go on quite an extended journey with her

906
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:24.239
from being the drone to being who she is in Picard.

907
00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:28.860
Well, I mean, this scene here where she says, thank Janeway.

908
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.780
I'm not going to assimilate you.

909
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:33.420
Thank Janeway for her patience and her kindness.

910
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:37.860
And that's a development because, yeah, just a few episodes ago.

911
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:40.559
She was saying, I'm going to kill you and all your crew, you

912
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:40.800
know?

913
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:45.480
I think it's ruined slightly because too Voc has to explain it.

914
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:51.900
But this is probably interesting in a way that I thought it was

915
00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:54.840
just like, oh, she goes rogue for no reason at all.

916
00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:58.440
Like in brothers, a similar thing happens, doesn't it?

917
00:40:58.500 --> 00:41:03.360
There's a signal that causes data to take over the ship and go and

918
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.400
see Dr. Song.

919
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:07.920
But also as well.

920
00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:11.400
What I really like about the climax of this episode is where, I

921
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:15.599
don't know, I'm so used to these 45 minute episodes and, you know

922
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.460
being unsatisfied at the ending, you know, so you just got hand

923
00:41:20.460 --> 00:41:21.539
waving techno bad.

924
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:22.440
Oh, I said to you, isn't it?

925
00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:24.719
usually it's split, it's either a character ending or it's a

926
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:25.559
tinabab ending.

927
00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:26.280
Yeah, yeah.

928
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:27.659
And, you know, which one I prefer.

929
00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:31.800
But the ending for this is really quite satisfying because we're

930
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:33.780
learning a little bit about her backstory.

931
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:34.500
Yeah.

932
00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:36.599
And Voyager doesn't really do that either.

933
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:40.440
No, I wonder whether they blow the backstory thing a little bit

934
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:45.119
early and clearly they decide that they did because we're going to

935
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.360
have dark frontier next season or the season after next season

936
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:48.719
isn't it?

937
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:49.619
season, yeah.

938
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:51.539
And it was a big deal.

939
00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:54.599
Like I seem to remember, I can't remember how I watched these at

940
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.139
the time.

941
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:59.219
But I do know that dark season was very, very heavily promoed and

942
00:41:59.219 --> 00:41:59.519
stuff.

943
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:02.820
It was and it was an event, like a TV event.

944
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.579
That had some pretty good action in it, you know, and that was

945
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.099
quite a, or is that going to be the way of the warrior effect

946
00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:10.860
where we think it's got lots of action in it, actually. people

947
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:11.460
standing in rooms.

948
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:13.980
It's just lots of scenes on a ball cube.

949
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.219
Gameway and the ball queen flirting terribly.

950
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.860
But actually, do you know what?

951
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:20.639
It's very strange.

952
00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:22.380
The 3 Voyager episodes that we've done.

953
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.300
Need to be saying they don't do backstory.

954
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:27.300
We had Bilana Torres's backstory in Yiddish.

955
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:30.059
The doctor's backstory in swarm.

956
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:31.619
Yeah, he did.

957
00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:33.059
And now we've got seven's backstorm.

958
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:35.519
We had none of that in the DS9 episodes we've done, have we?

959
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:36.059
No.

960
00:42:36.059 --> 00:42:38.699
We just watched the baseball tag. 2 next.

961
00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:42.480
I can't wait to get into that.

962
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.380
Native American specialist that they have.

963
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.719
There's a great story there, I'm telling you.

964
00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:49.559
Yeah.

965
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:56.699
So why does Seven's Diary say that the Eyes of the Raven are

966
00:42:56.699 --> 00:42:58.260
yellow when they're clearly black?

967
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:01.800
I mean, it's a fact that they forgot to put the special effect on

968
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:02.820
the raven's eyes.

969
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.920
A little bit embarrassing.

970
00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:07.079
Or do you think they were, did you think they were talking about a

971
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:08.880
different sort of book or they just got the bird wrong?

972
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:10.380
If they were talking about something like that.

973
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:11.820
They're talking about Hawk or something like that.

974
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:17.159
No, I mean, it is a, it is a, she says a Corvid, which I think is

975
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:17.639
pretty great.

976
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:20.400
A member of the Corvid eye fan.

977
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:22.079
Old group does this scene brilliantly.

978
00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:23.579
You know, she really does this thing.

979
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:26.519
She's like, it sounds like she's describing a member of the COVID

980
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:31.800
family or a crow or... a raven.

981
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:36.239
And she has read, is it because she's read the files?

982
00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:38.579
She's said that she's read the files.

983
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:41.880
She knows Anika Hansen's backstory.

984
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:44.880
Is that why she reacts like that to the word raven?

985
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:48.599
Like, in which case it shouldn't have taken her quite so long

986
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.679
Nathan, she, Mulgrew's just a terrible ham, that's all.

987
00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:54.300
It's wonderful.

988
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:57.360
I mean, she is absolutely compelling to watch.

989
00:43:57.420 --> 00:43:59.099
She is utterly superb.

990
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.800
I'm a massive fan of cable group.

991
00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:04.500
We never, ever would have known what it should have been Bijol

992
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:05.099
would have been like.

993
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:07.980
Yeah, well, Nicola Bryant.

994
00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:13.920
Oh, that would have been extraordinary.

995
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:17.760
Mulgrew was the only one.

996
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:19.619
She is great.

997
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:20.340
And you know what?

998
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.039
I, I always, I have got issues with Jake.

999
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:23.519
I do.

1000
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:26.039
I don't think I think she's written inconsistently, certainly.

1001
00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:26.820
Yeah, yeah.

1002
00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:28.920
Rob Moore's got a lot to say about that later on.

1003
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:31.980
Um, Margaret was always great.

1004
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:35.760
Like she takes whatever crumbs they give her and turns it into a

1005
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:36.719
sandwich somehow.

1006
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:40.199
Yeah, I think, you know, the performance is generally better than

1007
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:44.219
Patrick Stewart, who I think is pretty good.

1008
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.099
But I don't think either of them are as interesting as Avery

1009
00:44:47.099 --> 00:44:47.519
Brooks.

1010
00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:48.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1011
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.360
Just because, well, you never know what you're getting there.

1012
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:52.500
No, exactly.

1013
00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:56.760
Oh my word, look how hot truth all looks there in the shadows.

1014
00:44:56.820 --> 00:44:58.619
Yeah, yeah.

1015
00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:03.119
So Team Ross is massively underrated and it's mostly because he's

1016
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:04.980
massively underused, isn't he?

1017
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.519
Did you, oh, I didn't tell you that I, what he said in that uh

1018
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:09.840
Voyager reunion.

1019
00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:12.119
And they're all going, oh, yeah, that's this episode.

1020
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:15.480
And Tim Ross puts down up, he goes, oh, is that the one where I'm

1021
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:18.179
at the tactical console saying they're firing on those captains?

1022
00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:22.260
He said, oh, I did that from time to time.

1023
00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:24.300
Oh, there was just about all he did.

1024
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:25.739
They waste him.

1025
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.539
I mean, what a waste.

1026
00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:31.079
It's, it's, and the few times I give him something incredible to

1027
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:31.320
do.

1028
00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:32.760
He just blows your socks off.

1029
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:34.559
Yeah, he's amazing.

1030
00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:39.780
This, that, that scene with him and Jerry Ryan in the shuttlecraft

1031
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:47.519
where he kind of wins her over and he's super kind to her and

1032
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:51.300
concerned about her and he plays it so subtly because he's a

1033
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:54.719
Vulcan or whatever, I think he's really, really good.

1034
00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:59.880
Honestly, 9 times out of 10, a chewbox centric episode is a poet.

1035
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:02.820
Do you remember that one where he's on that planet with those

1036
00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:03.059
kids?

1037
00:46:03.179 --> 00:46:04.800
Oh, good.

1038
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.260
He's babysitting those kids, and he has to do everything, like, to

1039
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.659
stop him somewhere, you bloody little shit.

1040
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:12.719
They're like, eh, oh, it's tall.

1041
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.480
And all the one in Serial 7 where it becomes a serial murderer.

1042
00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:17.340
And he's investigating the tail.

1043
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:19.320
Oh, it's all some marquee member.

1044
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.420
It's awful.

1045
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:22.199
Oh, hang on.

1046
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:23.280
Look at this special effect.

1047
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:30.480
Well, so in the shitty cave set, and there's a much worse shot a

1048
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:31.079
little bit later.

1049
00:46:31.139 --> 00:46:35.880
I actually think it looks like a sort of Hugo and Nebula Award

1050
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:38.639
winning science fiction novel cover, you know, like we've got

1051
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:39.780
those space ships.

1052
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:43.739
Ernie Summerfield and the Raven.

1053
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:45.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1054
00:46:46.019 --> 00:46:47.039
Terrible.

1055
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:48.599
It is really, really bad.

1056
00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:51.300
Do you know what shocks me, though, is I think there are generally

1057
00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:55.739
some like old CSO shots of 70s Doctor Who actually looks better.

1058
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:56.639
Better than that.

1059
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:58.440
So many special effects are there.

1060
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.239
They just look so fake against it.

1061
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.099
Yeah, yeah, that's the problem.

1062
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.559
It's not always the CGOA.

1063
00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:08.760
It's just that they clearly are not there with the setting. know?

1064
00:47:08.820 --> 00:47:09.840
Yeah.

1065
00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:10.559
Yeah, yeah.

1066
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:14.639
I mean, this is the sort of set that they can make in their sleep

1067
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:18.300
and they clearly have done that.

1068
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:20.760
This is the sort of set in every other next generation episode.

1069
00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:23.340
You know, they beam in and there's smoke everywhere and a couple

1070
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:24.960
of bodies lying around, you know.

1071
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:28.019
This is, I do think these scenes, the flashbacks are a bit

1072
00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:29.639
ghoulish, though, you know, quite scary.

1073
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:34.440
It is actually, I think it's unintentionally, or maybe

1074
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:39.059
intentionally, it's actually much worse because she's a little

1075
00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:39.599
girl.

1076
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:44.760
Like she's 7 and she's captured by the Borg.

1077
00:47:44.820 --> 00:47:48.179
Her parents are taken over and then she's captured and taken

1078
00:47:48.179 --> 00:47:48.599
over.

1079
00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:52.679
But this could have been so try with her going around going, yeah

1080
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:53.460
mama, papa.

1081
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:55.860
But she's a little bit shit.

1082
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.559
Oh, yeah, no, like, like, like, as Richard.

1083
00:47:58.619 --> 00:47:59.639
I think she plays it very well.

1084
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:03.480
I think she very nearly pulls off something impossible, I think.

1085
00:48:03.539 --> 00:48:06.659
Do you remember the episode where she has infinite regrets where

1086
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:07.619
she has the multiple personality?

1087
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.559
and one of them is a child and she's playing quite a bit.

1088
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:12.780
It's Voyages masks, you know?

1089
00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:17.460
I'll never stop talking about masks, you know, so terrible.

1090
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:19.559
I'll bet you do yeah.

1091
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:24.840
But she's very, very good in that as well.

1092
00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:27.480
And she's another one where whenever they, like, she's great at

1093
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:27.840
seven.

1094
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:30.420
But when they give her a chance to do, like when she plays the

1095
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:31.619
character in the killing game.

1096
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:37.500
Yeah, the singer, you know, so much. marvellous in that.

1097
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:39.179
She's really great.

1098
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:41.039
Yeah, yeah.

1099
00:48:41.099 --> 00:48:42.420
She's really something.

1100
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:43.679
So these two...

1101
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.320
What I was watching is I wasn't aware of our slow ears, but now I

1102
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:47.699
actually feel like it is quite slow this.

1103
00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:49.679
Yeah, no, it's glacial.

1104
00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:53.099
And there's action.

1105
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:56.099
You know, there's a space battle and there's her taking over the

1106
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:56.519
ship.

1107
00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:57.900
Like there is action.

1108
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.179
Yeah, but it's not well done.

1109
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:01.739
With the Beaumar.

1110
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:02.940
With a, remember?

1111
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:03.719
Omar.

1112
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:08.099
What if it had been the Sheliac corporate or something?

1113
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:11.039
You know, like it's so they're so boring.

1114
00:49:11.099 --> 00:49:12.239
They're so bad.

1115
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:14.639
Oh, this, yeah.

1116
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:17.219
I have to say, I will keep repeating.

1117
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.099
This was very fresh at the time.

1118
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:21.539
This felt very interesting.

1119
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:22.320
Go on.

1120
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:25.619
I want to talk about her delivery of the line where she says she

1121
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:29.219
had 6 candles on her cake and one more to grow on.

1122
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:33.000
And the way she delivers it is that she remembers her parents

1123
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:37.079
saying that, but she didn't understand at the time what that

1124
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:37.500
meant.

1125
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:40.739
And she conveys that in her line delivery.

1126
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:47.639
She's properly thoughtful, even when, you know, like this is a bit

1127
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.940
shit, in the sense that we get a big messenger speech.

1128
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:56.460
Like we don't get to see any of this happening until, I guess

1129
00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:58.559
start Frontier when they go back to it.

1130
00:49:58.619 --> 00:50:01.800
It's always graphic and it's explicit.

1131
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:02.880
Dull frontier.

1132
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:05.760
Yeah, well, they must have realised that they blew a really, really

1133
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:10.260
interesting story by having her just cheaply walk around, do some

1134
00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:12.900
great acting, but just tell us what happened.

1135
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:17.039
And so, you know, it's television. show us what happened and they

1136
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:18.360
do that next year.

1137
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:21.659
I'll tell you the wonderful story about Jerry Ryan being off of

1138
00:50:21.659 --> 00:50:22.019
the poll.

1139
00:50:22.139 --> 00:50:27.179
And then she said, oh, in an interview, she goes, so I thought, you

1140
00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:29.880
know, I'm going to sit down and watch an episode of this before I

1141
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:32.039
go to the audition to see what it's like.

1142
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:37.139
So, and it was rise, that dreadful series 3 episode with the

1143
00:50:37.139 --> 00:50:38.099
orbital tether.

1144
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:42.420
I watched it with my mum and it was the worst thing that either of

1145
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.380
us had ever seen.

1146
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:47.219
And so she phoned out Rick Berman the next day I said, I'm so

1147
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:48.780
sorry, but I don't want to be a part of this.

1148
00:50:49.019 --> 00:50:53.039
And they had to actively convince her to go to the audition.

1149
00:50:53.099 --> 00:50:54.659
Bless her.

1150
00:50:55.739 --> 00:50:57.840
It's so weird, isn't it?

1151
00:50:57.900 --> 00:50:59.820
That I don't know.

1152
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:01.260
I was thinking about this the other day.

1153
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:07.679
Like you get this part and maybe it's just that I live among nerds

1154
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:12.239
who care about this show, but it seems to be this sort of weird

1155
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:13.500
lifelong commitment.

1156
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:18.119
You know, you are always 7 of 9 and, you know, she's back doing it

1157
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:18.480
still.

1158
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:20.760
Bless her.

1159
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:24.000
Yeah, I think, well, I don't know.

1160
00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:30.059
I think, At the time, she says that this was not, this was one of

1161
00:51:30.059 --> 00:51:34.260
her least favourite jobs that she'd ever done because she was in a

1162
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:37.320
constant state of anxiety for 2 seasons of this show.

1163
00:51:37.380 --> 00:51:40.860
I think she said, because of how she was being treated.

1164
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:43.800
And I think there was a bit of a click behind Mulgrew as well.

1165
00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:44.820
It wasn't just Mulgrew.

1166
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:47.519
She was just the, you know, the the the head of all this.

1167
00:51:47.579 --> 00:51:51.900
Um, and she said that she was like genuinely nauseous going into

1168
00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:54.599
work most days and things like that, you know, that's that's

1169
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:55.139
pretty important.

1170
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:58.440
You know, the stories about her, you know, Mulgrew saying, you

1171
00:51:58.440 --> 00:51:59.820
know, she's not going to the bathroom.

1172
00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:02.159
We're not waiting for her to get out of that costume every 5

1173
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:02.400
minutes.

1174
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:06.119
Yeah, it's it's a shame.

1175
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:07.440
It's a shame because they do great work.

1176
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:08.940
Yeah.

1177
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:09.420
Yeah.

1178
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:12.840
And I'm happy that she gets a Star Trek experience that she

1179
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:14.699
actually enjoys making like.

1180
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:19.019
And I'm happy that the pair of them can acknowledge what happened

1181
00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:23.760
and have a relationship now because it's clearly very warm between

1182
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:24.719
them now, you know.

1183
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:29.099
Oh, gosh, it's a really shitty special effect.

1184
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:30.480
Look at Shuvok coming out of there.

1185
00:52:30.539 --> 00:52:30.900
Look.

1186
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:33.300
The matting in this scene.

1187
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.440
Look at them standing in front of those rocks.

1188
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:38.579
Yeah, yeah.

1189
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:40.860
Why does it come apart in segments like that?

1190
00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:42.780
I don't know.

1191
00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:43.860
I was wondering that as well.

1192
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:45.239
It looks like garlic bread, doesn't it?

1193
00:52:45.300 --> 00:52:45.900
It doesn't it?

1194
00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:47.340
Like someone's chopping it with a knife.

1195
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.820
They're like, well, this will be a bit more interesting.

1196
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.199
Yeah, yeah.

1197
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:53.159
It's all right.

1198
00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:55.380
Oh, God, a fleet of Beaumar vessels.

1199
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:56.639
Approaching.

1200
00:52:56.699 --> 00:52:57.840
Yeah, yeah.

1201
00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:01.679
She's hung up on them already, which I think is the best thing

1202
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:02.159
about it.

1203
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:04.980
She did that before. was like, I don't have time for this.

1204
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:05.460
Hang on.

1205
00:53:05.579 --> 00:53:07.440
We basically been waiting 40 minutes for that.

1206
00:53:07.500 --> 00:53:09.360
Yeah, it is pretty good.

1207
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:10.679
That was pretty great.

1208
00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:12.840
But she wins. shame right.

1209
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:15.659
This is like PG-13, so she can't just, you know, phone him up and

1210
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:16.980
say, oh, fuck off, you know.

1211
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:20.579
Well, you can't even say fuck on Discovery now, which I think is a

1212
00:53:20.579 --> 00:53:22.380
great shame because I really enjoyed a book.

1213
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.559
And it was so you can...

1214
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:27.900
Oh, you had a heart attack when someone told you.

1215
00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:29.579
I had Jean-Lupe Picard to fuck off.

1216
00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:33.000
Yeah, if only it had been Admiral Nachev, though.

1217
00:53:33.420 --> 00:53:35.579
It would have been so good.

1218
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:36.719
In fact, you know what?

1219
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:39.780
You know, you know, I hate all the fucks, hasn't it, couple?

1220
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:42.239
But if she'd have said it, I'd have been well behind that.

1221
00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:46.380
So good. been squeezing his nuts for years and years.

1222
00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:47.880
Yeah, exactly.

1223
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:48.960
Exactly.

1224
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:50.159
Oh, that's it, the plot.

1225
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:51.420
So, what happened to the Beaumont then?

1226
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.940
They just flew away from them.

1227
00:53:54.059 --> 00:53:55.019
They went off.

1228
00:53:57.059 --> 00:54:00.539
This great serious threat to a witch.

1229
00:54:00.659 --> 00:54:02.460
Oh my god. just gone away.

1230
00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:08.880
Do you recall dragon's teeth in series 6 where they were setting

1231
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:14.880
up the Vardois as this great space nemesis to Voyager. space

1232
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:18.179
corridors, and at the end, they even had a like, oh, until the

1233
00:54:18.179 --> 00:54:19.079
next time we see them.

1234
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.760
And then we never do.

1235
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:22.139
They never mentioned again.

1236
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.940
Unsurprisingly, we don't hear from the Beaumar again either.

1237
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:27.659
No.

1238
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:29.639
Well, the sword don't come back.

1239
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:34.739
There's a new alliance between the Vardois, the Beaumar on the

1240
00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:35.099
swamp.

1241
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:36.059
Swarm.

1242
00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:38.400
That's the finale.

1243
00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:41.400
Yeah, they're called the Confederacy and they're going to be our

1244
00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:43.619
enemies for the rest of the series run.

1245
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:48.119
I don't know, though.

1246
00:54:48.179 --> 00:54:50.219
I could have done a few more scenes for that man with a strange

1247
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:50.760
delivery.

1248
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:58.800
It's so, like it's just, it's just a, that'll do, isn't it?

1249
00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:00.539
That's good enough, you know.

1250
00:55:03.059 --> 00:55:06.719
It's like the sort of actors don't get, you know, day players in a

1251
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:07.380
soap, isn't it?

1252
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:08.880
Yeah, whatever.

1253
00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:10.739
I'm only getting 50 quid, you know.

1254
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:11.880
Yeah, yeah.

1255
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:15.179
But it is the fact that we've just decided we're not going to have

1256
00:55:15.179 --> 00:55:18.000
any kind of conception of what the Boma are.

1257
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:21.239
They're not going to be anything that's identifiable.

1258
00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:24.539
That's just a sort of fucking Star Trek alien and that's enough.

1259
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:27.000
What do you imagine those co-hangers are all about?

1260
00:55:27.059 --> 00:55:28.380
I don't know.

1261
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:31.980
But remember, do you remember when the Cardassians 1st appear in

1262
00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:32.880
is it the wounded?

1263
00:55:32.940 --> 00:55:35.039
And it was gulled?

1264
00:55:35.099 --> 00:55:38.940
It's Goldy Kart playing someone else and they have a, they have

1265
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:42.719
stupid head gear as well, which they wisely decide to get rid of.

1266
00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:47.940
To be fair, some of the great races of the Alpha Quadrant, their

1267
00:55:47.940 --> 00:55:48.960
initial makeup.

1268
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:52.380
Remember warf, early makeup, and the early trill, which was just

1269
00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:55.079
the bumps on the head and the very slight spots and things.

1270
00:55:55.139 --> 00:55:58.980
Oh, the Ferengi in the last outpost are pretty shitty as well, I

1271
00:55:58.980 --> 00:55:59.159
think.

1272
00:55:59.219 --> 00:56:03.659
I swear even Bologna Torres's makeup was different. series one.

1273
00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:04.500
Yeah, yeah.

1274
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:06.719
They softener up as they go along, don't they?

1275
00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:07.139
Yeah.

1276
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:11.340
So what great things did you learn about the Raven then?

1277
00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:17.159
Well, I actually think that it is that it's not a bad Star Trek

1278
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:17.579
episode.

1279
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:23.159
And what I was going for when I chose it was...

1280
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.599
I just want a truck episode.

1281
00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:27.659
Just do a Star Trek episode and see what it's like because we'd

1282
00:56:27.659 --> 00:56:31.139
had a few events and we'd done a fair bit of Kurtzman Trek and I

1283
00:56:31.139 --> 00:56:34.739
wanted to just, you know, go back to our roots and do just a

1284
00:56:34.739 --> 00:56:36.719
standard 90s Star Trek episode.

1285
00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:38.880
And I think that that was absolutely that.

1286
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:43.079
And it was a great mixture of things that were very good and some

1287
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:49.199
really good performances and some very sluggish pacing and some

1288
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.500
very weird and bad creative decisions.

1289
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:54.360
So perfect, I think.

1290
00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:59.880
I think it kind of exposes that 90s trek could do carot's work

1291
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:07.559
quite depthly, but also it had this bizarre ability to do these B

1292
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:08.340
plots.

1293
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:13.559
Like, you know, you you do this wonderful thing of tying in, you

1294
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:15.960
know, sometimes I think, you know, you read sometimes a little bit

1295
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:16.860
too much.

1296
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:18.420
But, but, you know, it's fair.

1297
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.320
But with these Kursman episodes where all the themes are united

1298
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.380
you know, and I do think that it's absolutely there.

1299
00:57:25.380 --> 00:57:30.239
Whereas what on earth the Beaumar and 7 of 9 discovering her

1300
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:32.579
parents' ship have to do with each other.

1301
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:33.539
I have no idea.

1302
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:38.460
They are merely there to provide a space battle in the middle of

1303
00:57:38.460 --> 00:57:43.980
the episode and some kind of countdown, some sort of pressure at

1304
00:57:43.980 --> 00:57:45.119
the end of the episode.

1305
00:57:45.179 --> 00:57:48.000
So they are, they're nothing.

1306
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:48.960
They're a plot function.

1307
00:57:49.019 --> 00:57:52.199
Plus, they haven't tested Kate Mulgrew's acting ability for a

1308
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:52.440
while.

1309
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:54.360
Bring in the shit aliens.

1310
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:55.679
Yeah, yeah.

1311
00:57:55.739 --> 00:57:58.739
Let's see if she can hold it together standing in front of these

1312
00:57:58.739 --> 00:57:59.219
people.

1313
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:09.179
All right, it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode

1314
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:13.079
and Joe has his finger hovering over the button.

1315
00:58:13.139 --> 00:58:16.739
Can you tell me, Joe, what series you're choosing from?

1316
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:21.239
Yes, yes, I have chosen 4 Star Trek series today from the Random

1317
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:21.659
Ice.

1318
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:24.960
As a quick side note, I did just mention that I have used a

1319
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:28.980
randomiser this week and it is such a, honestly, get on there and

1320
00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:29.460
use it.

1321
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:32.159
I would have been agonising over my shelves for hours.

1322
00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:37.019
So that's untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser.

1323
00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:40.739
I put all the series in there and I got Voyages Dragon Steve. was

1324
00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:41.099
rather good.

1325
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:42.239
I'm so sorry.

1326
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:44.280
Okay.

1327
00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:47.940
So I have chosen the original series because we haven't done that

1328
00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:50.579
for a little while and it's always terrific factor.

1329
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:52.260
Last time we got Spock's brain, which was amazing.

1330
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:52.980
Yeah, yeah.

1331
00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:54.960
I have chosen Deep Space 9 again.

1332
00:58:55.019 --> 00:58:55.500
I'm really sorry.

1333
00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:57.420
I just love it so much.

1334
00:58:57.480 --> 00:58:59.760
I've chosen Enterprise.

1335
00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:03.960
Because I always think that's a really interesting one to rip the

1336
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:04.440
shit out.

1337
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:09.119
And I've chosen lower decks because we've only done one.

1338
00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:11.460
Okay, here we go.

1339
00:59:11.579 --> 00:59:12.780
Oh this is exciting.

1340
00:59:13.139 --> 00:59:15.179
Oh Christ.

1341
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:20.099
Start your Star Trek Enterprise episode is Season one.

1342
00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:24.119
Episode 18, rogue planet.

1343
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:25.619
Oh my god.

1344
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:27.719
No, I don't even want to know what that is.

1345
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:29.820
I bet that's just strange new world part two.

1346
00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:32.219
Yeah, it's just about a rogue planet, I think.

1347
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:32.639
All right.

1348
00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:34.320
For example, that, do we?

1349
00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:39.119
Okay, your random Star Trek original series episode is, oh, yes

1350
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:39.599
let's do this.

1351
00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:42.059
Spectre of the gum.

1352
00:59:42.179 --> 00:59:43.619
Oh.

1353
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:45.960
Season 3, episode six.

1354
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:49.380
Fabulous.

1355
00:59:49.380 --> 00:59:52.380
Bizarre alien in the Black Mist and...

1356
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:54.599
No, this is great.

1357
00:59:54.659 --> 00:59:56.099
This is hugely exciting.

1358
00:59:56.159 --> 00:59:59.460
I'm absolutely here for it I think this is really, really good

1359
00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:00.360
this episode.

1360
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.119
Do you know, I don't know it well at all.

1361
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:07.440
I mean, obviously the iconography, you know, the look of it is

1362
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:11.820
absolutely iconic, but I can't remember watching it.

1363
01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:14.219
So I'm quite looking forward to this.

1364
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:18.900
It's so iconic that they ripped it, didn't they, in lower days?

1365
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:20.159
Yeah, yeah, in the episode we were watching.

1366
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:21.539
That's the one we were watching, wasn't it?

1367
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1368
01:00:23.099 --> 01:00:23.639
How much fun?

1369
01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:27.539
And actually, this is really good to do because we did a series 3

1370
01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:29.039
episode of...

1371
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:29.579
That was terrible.

1372
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:33.179
Oh, I mean, it was brilliant, but it was brilliant awful.

1373
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:36.179
But I actually think this has a lot of mirror.

1374
01:00:36.179 --> 01:00:39.599
And so it just goes to show that even though the show was on the

1375
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:40.380
decline.

1376
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:42.599
Yeah, it could still do interesting things.

1377
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:45.059
Cool, that's brilliant.

1378
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:45.599
Let's do that.

1379
01:00:45.659 --> 01:00:46.619
I can't wait.

1380
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:47.519
I'm going to watch it tonight.

1381
01:00:56.579 --> 01:01:00.599
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1382
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:01.920
and Nathan Bottomley.

1383
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:05.820
You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you

1384
01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:08.579
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1385
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:12.659
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1386
01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:14.460
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1387
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:18.960
This episode was recorded on the 10th of March 2022 and released

1388
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:20.219
on the 11th of March.

1389
01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:25.019
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, Spectre

1390
01:01:25.019 --> 01:01:25.679
of the Gum.