WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:47:30

1
00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:24.719
Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:30.660
So, we are back aboard the USS Discovery after something of a

3
00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:35.640
break and we are in series 5 for the 1st time.

4
00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:41.640
So this is Face the Strange, series 5, episode four, which was 1st

5
00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:48.119
broadcast less than 2 years ago on the 18th of April 2024 and just

6
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:49.859
contextualise it.

7
00:00:49.979 --> 00:00:56.159
We have had, I think, 55 new episodes of Star Trek since this ad.

8
00:00:56.219 --> 00:00:57.840
Wow.

9
00:00:57.899 --> 00:00:58.439
Okay.

10
00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:02.520
Yeah, so 55 better episodes than this, I'm sure.

11
00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:03.299
I don't think so.

12
00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:04.859
So we've had...

13
00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:11.219
We've had season 2 of prodigy season 5 of Lower Deck, season 3 of

14
00:01:11.219 --> 00:01:14.819
Strange New Worlds, and the 1st few episodes of Starfleet

15
00:01:14.819 --> 00:01:15.299
Academy.

16
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.480
You've just named 3 better seasons than this, all right?

17
00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:23.640
I think that this is perhaps not the best season of Discovery, but

18
00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:29.760
I do think it's a season that we needed to have because Discovery

19
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:35.700
had been so high stakes and so overwrought, I think, during its

20
00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:36.239
run.

21
00:01:36.299 --> 00:01:40.560
And so this is essentially a season where they have a caper and

22
00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:45.780
the job is to collect all of the 6 segments of the key to time

23
00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:51.420
before lock and mole manage to collect it.

24
00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:55.439
And it actually is really quite fun, I think, on the whole as a

25
00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:56.640
running plot.

26
00:01:56.700 --> 00:02:00.180
You see in the previously on that they get to go to Trill and

27
00:02:00.180 --> 00:02:05.519
Kulba gets to play the part of a like a previous Trill host or

28
00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:09.780
something and find them the 1st part and they go from place to

29
00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:10.560
place to place.

30
00:02:10.620 --> 00:02:13.259
Loll and mock are quite fun adversaries.

31
00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:17.340
We have our 1st Breen out of his helmet in Locke, and I think

32
00:02:17.340 --> 00:02:18.360
they're quite fun.

33
00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.539
And of course, they're chasing the technology of the progenitors

34
00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:27.780
who are salome yens from the chase in Star Trek the Next

35
00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:31.080
Generation. being paid to talk these days then.

36
00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:33.479
Well, yes, yes, they are.

37
00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:33.960
Yeah.

38
00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:34.740
Oh, okay.

39
00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:36.419
We decided in T-space 9.

40
00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.060
They just didn't want to pay for them to actually have dialogue.

41
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:41.520
They just sort of went, didn't they?

42
00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:43.919
I think it wasn't just that they didn't want to pay for dialogue.

43
00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:47.400
I think that they also didn't want to write characters for them.

44
00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:50.219
Do you know what I mean, that they wanted an extra adversary, but

45
00:02:50.219 --> 00:02:53.039
they didn't want to add a whole heap of extra characters.

46
00:02:53.099 --> 00:02:55.259
That's a joke as well, didn't they?

47
00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:57.120
You know, we can't understand them.

48
00:02:57.180 --> 00:03:00.900
Boo, you had way you reacted, oh, that's so funny, you know?

49
00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:04.500
Some of the best dialogue we've ever heard.

50
00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.460
So we get the Breen and they get a mention here, of course, because

51
00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:14.520
the Breen, we discover, are the people that lock and mole will

52
00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:20.280
sell the progenitors technology to, and if Michael and Rayna fail

53
00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:22.199
there who will destroy the Federation.

54
00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:27.840
I had my usual sort of horror watching the, um, previously on

55
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:30.719
because I'm diving into a season of which I know absolutely

56
00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:34.500
nothing about, and I'm getting this quick succession of images and

57
00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:38.039
information trying to catch me up in about 30 seconds.

58
00:03:38.099 --> 00:03:41.520
And I was like, well, I didn't really get what any of that was

59
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:41.879
about.

60
00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:46.680
But let's see if this episode, you know, exemplifies series 5 and

61
00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.219
it's a big, huge, important part of the season and I very quickly

62
00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:51.659
realised it wasn't that.

63
00:03:51.659 --> 00:03:58.139
It was just a standard sort of Star Trek space and time problem to

64
00:03:58.139 --> 00:04:01.439
solve, hopping about in time and things like that.

65
00:04:01.500 --> 00:04:04.500
So I was quite relieved on that part because we've jumped into

66
00:04:04.500 --> 00:04:09.599
seasons before where I've sort of got the gist, and it's both

67
00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.360
we've talked about this as strength and a weakness of serialised

68
00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:17.220
television in that our method of choosing episodes randomly means

69
00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:20.100
sometimes we're jumping into the middle. you know, we're seeing

70
00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:22.379
one puzzle piece of a big picture.

71
00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:25.560
Um, it wasn't an issue at all here.

72
00:04:25.620 --> 00:04:29.100
My big issue with this was sort of watching the episode itself

73
00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:35.759
which whilst I think if you're a big fan of discovery, then you

74
00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:40.740
could probably get a lot from the, especially the 2nd half of the

75
00:04:40.740 --> 00:04:44.879
episode as it's jumping back in time, and as it's making

76
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:50.459
comparisons between older Burnham and newer Burnham, and you're

77
00:04:50.459 --> 00:04:54.240
seeing old characters that have died, come, you know, back to life

78
00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:55.920
and they're doing cute things with all of that.

79
00:04:55.980 --> 00:04:58.980
But fuck me, Nathan, this was plotting.

80
00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:05.699
This was a plodding, and you said the word earnest episode of Star

81
00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:10.800
Trek, which reminded me so much of 90s trek, because it was a lot

82
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:17.399
of scenes of 2 people standing in underlit rooms, spouting a load

83
00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:20.639
of technobabble, and I was like, this is not the Kurtzman trek

84
00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:21.899
that I'm used to at all.

85
00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:26.160
And when you said to me that season 5 was a caper, I was expecting

86
00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:27.000
high energy.

87
00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:31.680
I was expecting, um, you know, oh, batter, bing, batter, bang, you

88
00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.399
know, heists and things like this, and instead, this was a very

89
00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:39.180
It's a very old Star Trek story, this, we have seen it a couple of

90
00:05:39.180 --> 00:05:41.939
times before, and I'm sure we're going to talk about that.

91
00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:46.980
But it was just a seriousness with how this was all played.

92
00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:53.160
I was like, My big issue, and it's a me issue, because I do a lot

93
00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:58.860
of podcasts, and yesterday, I watched 2 things yesterday, and

94
00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:03.180
unfortunately, this episode of Discovery came out all the worse

95
00:06:03.180 --> 00:06:07.019
for it, because the other thing I watched was an episode of, of

96
00:06:07.019 --> 00:06:13.079
all things, the Sarah Jane Adventures, Warriors of Kudlac, which

97
00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:16.920
is a mid-season, a bit like this, a mid-season Sarah Jane

98
00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:17.819
Adventure story.

99
00:06:17.939 --> 00:06:24.420
But boy, it had propulsion and pace and energy and wonderful jokes

100
00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:29.399
and performances full of personality and it had a genuine like

101
00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:30.899
emotional through line to it.

102
00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:35.879
But it just had energy all the way through and I just tore through

103
00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:36.060
it.

104
00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:39.300
I was watching this and I was just like, when is this going to

105
00:06:39.300 --> 00:06:39.959
start moving?

106
00:06:40.019 --> 00:06:42.000
Like Jesus Christ.

107
00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:46.740
So I watched relativity because you mentioned, so that's a Voyager

108
00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:47.639
episode from series.

109
00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.439
Fabulous.

110
00:06:49.500 --> 00:06:52.740
And it treads some of the same ground as this.

111
00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:58.079
But the thing that I thought made it different was that it wasn't

112
00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.199
actually about anything and it didn't have any real sort of

113
00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:02.339
character stuff.

114
00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:05.639
And eventually in a way that was kind of satisfying, it all kind

115
00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:08.939
of devolves into this sort of nonsense thing where there's Jane

116
00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:11.279
ways and then 7s all over the place.

117
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:14.339
And there's 3 Captain Braxtons who have to be reintegrated and

118
00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:16.319
they get arrested for things they haven't done yet.

119
00:07:16.379 --> 00:07:18.000
And I thought that was actually kind of fun.

120
00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:19.079
Oh, a new spaceship.

121
00:07:19.139 --> 00:07:19.980
You love that sort of thing.

122
00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:23.519
It looked a heap like the old spaceship, though, I have to say.

123
00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:32.279
Whereas here, I think this does a very good job of being about 2

124
00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:33.240
things.

125
00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:38.399
And initially it's clearly about the conflict between Rainer and

126
00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:40.860
Michael.

127
00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:45.420
And there's a scene that ends with Rainer saying, what if you're

128
00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:48.540
wrong about your leadership style?

129
00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.000
And so we see the 2 leadership stars exemplified.

130
00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:54.540
We see the 2 characters in conflict around them, and then they're

131
00:07:54.540 --> 00:08:00.300
put into a time loop where it turns out the solution is adopting

132
00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:02.160
Michael's leadership style.

133
00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:04.560
And in a way that's she's right.

134
00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:09.120
She's always right on this show with tedious predictability.

135
00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:11.579
But that is because she's superb.

136
00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:14.519
And so you say.

137
00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:18.420
And of course, you know, Reina is there to be the anti-Saru.

138
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.199
We don't have Saru on the bridge this season because he's Doug

139
00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:23.639
Jones, is it available?

140
00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.199
Well, I think they would have had if they'd been able to, but he's

141
00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:29.040
not properly available.

142
00:08:29.100 --> 00:08:30.779
They do have him throughout the season.

143
00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:34.019
This is the only episode of Discovery where Doug Jones isn't

144
00:08:34.019 --> 00:08:41.039
credited and he does appear from a scene, I think, from such sweet

145
00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.620
sorry part two, possibly, or possibly.

146
00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:45.840
It does a wonderful Doctor Who thing when the actor's not

147
00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:47.879
available. is they're sort of unconscious over there.

148
00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:50.220
It's just another actor in the universe.

149
00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:51.120
No, it's not.

150
00:08:51.179 --> 00:08:55.080
It is actually Doug Jones, but it's taken from a previous

151
00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:55.679
episode.

152
00:08:55.679 --> 00:09:02.519
But they sell it by having Mary Wiseman, as she is now, in that

153
00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:07.080
scene as well, you know, getting up and sort of reacting to what's

154
00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:07.440
going on.

155
00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:13.379
So it's essentially about that conflict and it is also a kind of

156
00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:16.080
celebration in the final year of discovery, you know, going in

157
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:17.220
that this is the last year.

158
00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:20.159
So this is a celebration of where we've come, and because

159
00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:24.539
Discovery is Michael's story, we have a Michael from the very

160
00:09:24.539 --> 00:09:26.700
beginning of the show and a Michael from the end of the show

161
00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:32.639
interacting, and I think they succeed in this episode, partly

162
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:37.259
because Michael opens up to Rainer early on in the episode, and

163
00:09:37.259 --> 00:09:42.120
then because Rainer adopts Michael's leadership style in the way

164
00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:44.820
that he deals with young Michael.

165
00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:48.000
And so there's a thematic unity to the whole thing, which I think

166
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.580
is good and a character focus to the whole thing.

167
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.299
Now, there is another time loop episode that we've already done in

168
00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:57.779
Discovery, which is magic to make the sanest man go mad.

169
00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:02.639
Oh, God, in comparison of that is full of that.

170
00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:04.559
Is that the one with the party, engineering?

171
00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:09.600
The only convincing Star Trek party, although special mention does

172
00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.860
need to go to Dax's hens night with handsome...

173
00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:17.460
Well, they snogging in that discovery episode, vomiting down...

174
00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.440
I think more...

175
00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:23.700
But they were playing beer pong, remember, until he was getting

176
00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:27.240
drunk and trying to get himself a man in uniform. on the table and

177
00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:27.720
awful.

178
00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:32.519
But even that, like that has less of a character focus, but it

179
00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:36.840
does focus in some sense on Stamets, you know, who is now part of

180
00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:37.139
her.

181
00:10:37.139 --> 00:10:39.179
That's a wonderful villain in it.

182
00:10:39.179 --> 00:10:40.259
And it's got a great villain.

183
00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:41.039
Art, you know?

184
00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.419
And and the but the time loop itself was really fun.

185
00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:47.100
It was full of twists and turns.

186
00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:48.600
It never stops running.

187
00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:50.100
Yeah, it's really fast.

188
00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:51.299
This one don't start running.

189
00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:54.179
But it also, it does send her on Michael as well.

190
00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.899
And of course, it's the 1st kiss between Michael and Ash, who

191
00:10:57.899 --> 00:11:01.379
confesses to Stammets, remember, that she's never been kissed

192
00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:01.740
before.

193
00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:06.240
And so, you know, there is a character focus as well, and it is

194
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:08.399
predictably on Michael because that's the show.

195
00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:12.539
I, like I think that it does what it sets out to do sort of fairly

196
00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:16.139
successfully, but it is, it is very earnest.

197
00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:17.879
As an hour of telly.

198
00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:19.200
It don't really stop me.

199
00:11:19.259 --> 00:11:23.580
And my big issue is that, who is that new character, that man?

200
00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:25.620
He's so boring.

201
00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.299
And the performance, man, there's no personality.

202
00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:32.159
So he doesn't raise his voice.

203
00:11:32.220 --> 00:11:35.039
He doesn't show any particular characteristics.

204
00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:38.340
She's got nothing to work with in those blood and all. true

205
00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:38.940
though.

206
00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:43.200
He's gruff and old-fashioned and dismissive.

207
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:45.779
But he's...

208
00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:48.960
But he's very, you know, he is very clearly a particular type of

209
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:50.639
person and he's conveying that person.

210
00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:55.379
That's Callum Keith Rennie, who is a cylon on Battlestar

211
00:11:55.379 --> 00:11:56.159
Galactica.

212
00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:57.539
He's one of the cylons.

213
00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:00.720
I hope you have some better material over there than memorable

214
00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:01.860
time. scenes.

215
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.460
They were so plotting those scenes for the 2 of them together.

216
00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:08.460
And you know me, I have big issues with Michael Burnham as a

217
00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:10.500
character anyway in that.

218
00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:14.639
For me, I think he's a great performer.

219
00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:15.360
I think she's wonderful.

220
00:12:15.419 --> 00:12:17.340
I think the actress is wonderful.

221
00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.440
I just, the show's upset.

222
00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:22.799
There isn't another Star Trek show as obsessed with a single

223
00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.019
character as Discovery is.

224
00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:26.100
DS9 isn't it?

225
00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:27.299
That's obsessed with Cisco.

226
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.580
Voyager isn't as obsessed with Janeway.

227
00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.600
Like, and it always just comes back to this, and I just don't

228
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:38.159
think there's enough there to stretch out 5 years of obsession

229
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:39.480
with this woman.

230
00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:44.639
Um, yeah, and so all of those scenes were just so flat in this, and

231
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:45.299
you wait.

232
00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.039
Even the camera weren't moving.

233
00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:51.899
You watch, even the camera is barely moving in this episode.

234
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.019
I was like, I can usually a Rolana drone zipping about the place

235
00:12:55.019 --> 00:12:56.940
to give the show some energy.

236
00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.820
It's like everyone's just sort of given up.

237
00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:01.259
I don't think that's right.

238
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.340
I think, so this is, um, this is Lee Rose, who does 4 other

239
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:08.159
episodes of Discovery, and we've seen 2 of them already.

240
00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:12.840
He does the examples and he does butt to connect and they were

241
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.460
both from series four, I think.

242
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:16.139
So this is his last episode.

243
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.580
Like, I didn't really notice a difference from the just the sort

244
00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:22.620
of normal discovery how style.

245
00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:27.419
And I did, as I said, just before this watched relativity.

246
00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:30.659
For an episode that features the ship actually exploding.

247
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:34.679
Everyone does seem to walk in a very leisurely way from place to

248
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.019
place and talk very slowly.

249
00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:40.200
And there's the occasional camera...

250
00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:44.039
Whereas I do think that I'm used to discovery, discovery having

251
00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:47.220
like really interesting images in it.

252
00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.200
And this is all standing set.

253
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:50.759
It's a bit of a show, isn't it?

254
00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.340
Yeah, but look at you.

255
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:55.139
I mean, I'll point out the lion as we go through.

256
00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.600
There's a sort of like flat blueness to it.

257
00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:00.059
Even the lighting on a Kurtzman trek.

258
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.759
I used to really popping, you know, and they're being great.

259
00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:06.600
I was just like, just on sort of every level, on the performances

260
00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:10.799
which were very earnest, the how it was executed, which was kind

261
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:12.539
of slow.

262
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.460
I know there's a fistfight.

263
00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.100
I know there's a phase of fight, but you can expect those things

264
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:18.419
in most Star Trek episodes.

265
00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:21.360
I don't know, it just plotted.

266
00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:25.320
I realised that's a terrible way to start going to watch it.

267
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:27.960
I'm watching it with you.

268
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.720
I think I found it more rewarding because I'm invested in

269
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:34.019
discovery and because I like spending time with a crew, because it

270
00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:37.440
does celebrate the whole trajectory of the show.

271
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:42.840
And I think it does have enough kind of fun stuff, like they make

272
00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.860
the decision to include Stamets, which I think is good.

273
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:51.360
They give Jet Reno a bit of a run and she doesn't get a massive

274
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:56.279
run in series 5, although she will be back a couple of years later

275
00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:00.779
for quite a lot of material in season one of Starfleet Academy

276
00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:01.320
fortunately.

277
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:07.080
She gets a very eccentric dinner scene in that DS9 love end.

278
00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:08.039
I don't know what that is.

279
00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:10.799
That's a very strange people.

280
00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:13.620
But so I do think there's that.

281
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.419
And I just think too, you know, there is something about the look

282
00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:22.559
of discovery that I really enjoy, and I have to say, like

283
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:27.600
discovery is the only Star Trek show apart from Picard, which

284
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:32.759
centres on a single individual quite as much, but I just kind of

285
00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:37.019
think you've got Sanequa Martin Green, and she is magnetic and

286
00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:40.740
beautiful, and I can't take my eyes off her, and so I can see why

287
00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:41.460
they made that decision.

288
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.720
I mean, I could see a discernable difference in her performance

289
00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:49.799
styles when she was doing young guy, though no, an older Burnham

290
00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.259
like there was a sort of angriness in her eyes, wasn't it?

291
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.279
when she was younger and then she's much more relaxed as the older

292
00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:57.059
Burnham.

293
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.519
But even those things, man, they were played so serious.

294
00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:02.700
Oh, come on now, you've got 2 of the same character and one scene

295
00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.879
have some fun with each other Yeah, and they absolutely don't do

296
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:06.899
that at all, do they?

297
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:07.980
Like they don't.

298
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.820
They have a fight.

299
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.019
They've a...

300
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.039
It's not the order of the day.

301
00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:12.240
It's fine.

302
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:15.000
And then they're in different rooms later on when she turns up

303
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.220
again so they don't interact a 2nd time.

304
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.000
But that needs to be a scene between Rainer and Michael in any

305
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:21.240
case.

306
00:16:21.299 --> 00:16:24.120
I think that's, you know, that has to be resolved in that way

307
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:28.139
because he has to save the day by using her leadership style for

308
00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:29.159
the episode to work, I think.

309
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:34.620
This really did feel like, no, it is track to me, though.

310
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:35.460
It really did.

311
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:39.960
Insofar as it was a lot, seems of 2 people standing in rooms

312
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.679
talking about the space problem and loads of techno babble.

313
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:46.559
There's quite a lot of techno babble in this. and you know me

314
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:48.720
that's not what I'm in Star Trek for.

315
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.480
I have some positive things to say about the techno bevel, actually

316
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.620
because I think it's done with considerable kind of tongue in

317
00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:56.100
cheek.

318
00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:01.080
It's not the sort of techno babble, which is just the right of

319
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.820
putting tech in brackets.

320
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:03.779
Do you know what I mean?

321
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.519
And someone else filling in later.

322
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:06.779
It's purposeful, I think.

323
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.720
And I think it does what it sets out to do.

324
00:17:09.779 --> 00:17:11.819
All right, I think we should go in.

325
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:12.299
What do you think?

326
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:14.460
I think we should.

327
00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.539
I mean, I genuinely feel like, of all the season 5 episodes, we

328
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:22.140
probably could have watched for me to, as my end to this season.

329
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:27.720
This may have been the worst choice we could have made, but let's

330
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:28.380
give it a go.

331
00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:28.680
Okay.

332
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:29.099
All right.

333
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:30.240
I will count as in.

334
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:36.960
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

335
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.359
I think we might...

336
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.839
I mean, I think, like, no, I think we might have done the dullest

337
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.980
episode of series 2 and the dullest episode of series one.

338
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:51.720
We did the dullest episode of the alternative universe.

339
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:53.279
Oh, certainly.

340
00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:56.039
We did the Dallas one of those and...

341
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:57.660
Why don't we keep picking the shit ones?

342
00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.259
I don't know.

343
00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:00.119
Do you remember the one with the Talosians?

344
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:02.279
Yeah, that was a really dullest one.

345
00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:03.000
That's right.

346
00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:03.660
That's right.

347
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.400
Flashy images now.

348
00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:07.259
Be advised. advised.

349
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.319
See, there's flashing images, but you don't get that on 90s

350
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:10.740
track.

351
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:11.279
Okay.

352
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:16.799
I, the other thing that, so this, uh, this is establishing that, of

353
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:20.039
course, book and Michael's relationship has broken, has broken

354
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:23.460
down, he has been he's been sentenced.

355
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:24.660
Do you know what I mean?

356
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.740
He was previously sentenced to some kind of, you know, um, some

357
00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:32.640
forced labour thing, not 1st labour because it's the federation

358
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.079
and where or 2 enlightened for that.

359
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:37.859
But he was sentenced to some kind of sentence for doing what he

360
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.339
did at the end of series 4 and their relationships broken down.

361
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.180
This is them on the planet Trill, getting, look at it.

362
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.619
It's barely... barely different from equilibrium into a sign.

363
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.700
It's a bit more expensive in the set is a bit larger.

364
00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:56.160
Into your side.

365
00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:59.940
It was just stockcate centre before we took it with a sort of

366
00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:00.839
puzzle, in it?

367
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:01.200
That was it.

368
00:19:01.259 --> 00:19:06.119
But the reason we say that is that we see mole put the spider on a

369
00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:11.460
deer, and now we go 15 hours earlier, which is Molenlock getting

370
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:12.240
the spider.

371
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:15.900
This green man, what, were they both green?

372
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.279
The one in the middle, yeah.

373
00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:21.660
He's the exactly the same alien from who mourns to mourn.

374
00:19:21.779 --> 00:19:23.099
Their makeup is so similar.

375
00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:24.539
He's a brain.

376
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.180
Oh, is that a brain?

377
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:27.779
Yeah.

378
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:29.220
And they're liquid.

379
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.920
Oh, they take liquid form sometimes.

380
00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:33.779
So sometimes he's sort of transparent.

381
00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:38.579
So this is mole and lock.

382
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.380
He's a...

383
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:41.220
Nathan.

384
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.660
I'm disappointed somehow.

385
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.380
I don't know what I expected the breed to look like, but it just

386
00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:48.240
looks like a 90s trek alien, doesn't it?

387
00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:49.920
When he's green and transparent.

388
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:50.940
He looks pretty impressive.

389
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.200
And when they're on the, they don't ruin the brain by unmasking

390
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.519
them, which is a trick.

391
00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:57.480
It's pretty good.

392
00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:03.960
And he was one of the 3 criminals that Michael was being

393
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.859
transported with in the shuttle, the ones that have the fight in

394
00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:12.660
the mess room, in the, um, context is for Kings, which I think is

395
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:14.819
the most recent discovery that we did.

396
00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:16.740
Do you remember?

397
00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:18.359
Ah, yeah, yeah.

398
00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:20.940
When it started with them in the shuttle.

399
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:21.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

400
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:22.259
Right.

401
00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:25.500
So, that's Elias 2 factors. to bring that back in.

402
00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:26.819
Yeah, yeah, there he is.

403
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.480
See, I think he's also weirdly hot out of makeup and so I'm not

404
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.880
squeaked out by this kiss.

405
00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:35.099
I'm glad you said our makeup.

406
00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:36.180
Jesus Christ.

407
00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:41.519
I mean, given the things that you've said, oh, Star Trek.

408
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.220
I think he manages to be a bit hard here.

409
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.779
He's kind of sweet, I think.

410
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:46.980
He's very cute.

411
00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.079
Who is this lady?

412
00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:49.920
So that's mine.

413
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:54.660
And it turns out that Mole is, I can't remember now because it's

414
00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:58.079
been 2 years and so much has happened, you know, 65 episodes of

415
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.579
Star Trek, 55.

416
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.539
But she has some kind of relationship with Booker.

417
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.740
Not a sexual relationship.

418
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.259
Ultimately, what are they trying to achieve?

419
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.779
They're trying to put together the 6 segments for what?

420
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:17.880
So they are trying to, um, yeah, they're trying to get the, um

421
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.779
they're trying to get the progenitors technology so they can sell

422
00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:24.119
it to the highest bidder so that they can stop running.

423
00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:29.579
We find out later that, um, that they have, the brain are chasing

424
00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:30.539
them and trying to kill them.

425
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:35.460
So now we're back in the present day and the spider has gone off a

426
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:38.339
deer's uniform and is now crawling around their quarters.

427
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:44.099
That is an unusually subtle effect for Star Trek discovery, isn't

428
00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:44.220
it?

429
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:45.059
That little story.

430
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:45.539
I like it.

431
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.900
And it's like really high tech because we're in the 32nd century.

432
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:51.779
Oh, look, it's so gray.

433
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.299
Oh, little gray. with the names.

434
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:56.160
Gray and Adira.

435
00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:57.720
Oh, that was so lovely, that episode.

436
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:02.460
They've broken up at this and Gray is back on trill.

437
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:08.339
Because remember, yeah, because Gray is back on trill, Gray's Gray

438
00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:10.619
got a body, remember, at the end of series three?

439
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.619
And so they've broken up and a deer is still on board.

440
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:16.559
Was it dearable before?

441
00:22:16.619 --> 00:22:18.599
I don't remember the hat.

442
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:21.660
No, they always had, they always had like short cropped hair.

443
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:22.079
Yeah.

444
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:23.940
Ah, okay.

445
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:28.140
Okay, so this scene is, the thing that's happening in this scene

446
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:32.579
is not only are we having the spider going around the room, but

447
00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:36.420
everyone is rolling their eyes at Rainer.

448
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:38.519
Like rain is intervening here at this point.

449
00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:39.720
He's been in charge.

450
00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:43.619
She's come on the bridge and he is being a prick.

451
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.180
He's like really rude to Reese when Reese advances his opinion

452
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:51.720
which makes it important that later on he has to win Reese over

453
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.339
you know, at the end.

454
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:57.000
Why doesn't Burnham just say, you know, you're better.

455
00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:57.599
That's what she does.

456
00:22:57.660 --> 00:22:58.799
That's it.

457
00:22:58.799 --> 00:22:59.039
Watch.

458
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:00.480
That's exactly what she does.

459
00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:05.099
Well, she she, she goes, let's go into it at my ready room.

460
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:06.000
Do you know what I mean?

461
00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:07.740
And then she tells him he's being approved.

462
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:09.839
Oh my god, just see her enormous eyebrow.

463
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:10.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

464
00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:11.940
But all are they doing?

465
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:12.480
Excuse me.

466
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:13.559
But Tilly does it.

467
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:15.900
Detmer and O Shakun do it.

468
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:18.480
You know, like they're all kind of rolling their eyes at him.

469
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:19.619
My ready room now.

470
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:21.180
And of course, excuse me.

471
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:22.559
Can I not walk for a at all?

472
00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:23.700
You don't have to wait Phoebe.

473
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.880
Lazy.

474
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:29.700
Well, I'll tell you what, convenience culture in the future.

475
00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:30.960
I wouldn't walk anywhere.

476
00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:32.039
It's great so great.

477
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.140
Nathan, what's wrong with his ears?

478
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:34.859
I don't know.

479
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.420
He is a something.

480
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:38.160
He is a Kelleran.

481
00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:42.480
Uh, and I mean, that's kind of great, mate.

482
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:43.319
It is pretty good.

483
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:45.599
Because they do genuinely look like ears.

484
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:46.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

485
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:47.519
It looks real, doesn't it?

486
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:49.500
Like the, the, that look really fleshy.

487
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:53.940
And so this is them arguing about her leadership style, that she's

488
00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:55.140
familiar and collaborative.

489
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:59.160
It's the same kind of leadership that we get in strange new

490
00:23:59.160 --> 00:23:59.640
worlds.

491
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:03.599
You know, when Pike will go options and everyone will contribute

492
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:09.000
and he'll listen, you know, that and Saru, and at her, they've all

493
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:10.559
got this collaborative leadership style.

494
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.279
And even though in Kurtzman track, generally speaking, the

495
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.220
captain's chair is like Kirk's chair, it's in the middle of the

496
00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:21.539
bridge, whereas in 90s track, the captain's chair has chairs next

497
00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:25.559
to it, but in 90s track, the captain is still more of a king

498
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:29.700
whereas here the captain is just like an excellent kind of manager

499
00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.779
I think.

500
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:32.460
And I...

501
00:24:32.460 --> 00:24:34.140
Holly Hunts, I, Jesus Christ.

502
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.900
I mean, that's the most relaxed queen you've ever seen.

503
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.339
That's right.

504
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.839
And so this, but the issue with this conversation is the issue

505
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:46.440
with this episode is it all has a foregone conclusion.

506
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:47.279
Of course it does.

507
00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:48.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

508
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:48.359
Yeah.

509
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:49.740
Well why are we watching it?

510
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.519
Well, Star Trek tends to be like that, though, just generally

511
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:54.119
doesn't it?

512
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.160
Not good stuff, right?

513
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:57.660
Good Star Trek can surprise you.

514
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.700
Yeah, yeah, not always.

515
00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:06.539
And so Stamets, they've decided, is immune to the time loop

516
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:10.319
because he was immune to the previous one in series one.

517
00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:12.839
I've just decided that.

518
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:14.160
That was great.

519
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:17.279
And like his role in that. season one episode.

520
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:18.240
It was so good.

521
00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:19.319
And because you don't know.

522
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.380
Well, because he was still in his imperial bastard phase, wasn't

523
00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:22.559
he?

524
00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:24.420
No, no one wanted to talk.

525
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.420
We get a reference to that here, of course, because we do go back

526
00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:29.819
to the 1st season and we get a reference to that.

527
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:33.299
And so the fact that they can just beam back to the bridge, which

528
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:34.140
is what they're about.

529
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:35.759
No, they're to beam to engineering or something.

530
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:38.460
Are they going to beam somewhere and it doesn't work?

531
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.180
And it's the fact that they were beaming that makes them, you know

532
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:43.980
kind of immune to the time loop.

533
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:48.480
So that that local personalised beaming thing is just a, you know

534
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:49.859
it's a, it's...

535
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:50.940
Oh my god, did you see that?

536
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.259
That room was full of rocks.

537
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:53.279
Did you see?

538
00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:56.460
Even in the 2nd century.

539
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.700
Yeah, 0 my god, look at the surround Saru.

540
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.140
They're everywhere.

541
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:04.619
Tilly from it's like they've blown up a quarry.

542
00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:06.960
Oh, and that's another thing that they've done to indicate that

543
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:07.799
this is the past.

544
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.900
The communications guy on the ship originally.

545
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:17.339
So this is from, I think it's either from the 1st episode, 2nd

546
00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:20.160
episode of series 3 or the end of series two.

547
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:23.519
She's out there as the Red Angel bringing them into the future.

548
00:26:23.579 --> 00:26:28.740
And like you, Grainer says, that's very confusing.

549
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.539
Like, so...

550
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:38.339
I actually did I was surprised that they didn't make the various

551
00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:42.720
time zones more visually distinctive than they do.

552
00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:43.680
He's still the ship.

553
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:45.599
I mean, it's kind of the same shit.

554
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:50.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but like, you know, I was saying the other

555
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:53.039
day, wasn't I, about the lazy people watching TV these days

556
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.160
sometimes we need a bit of help, you know, especially when you're

557
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:57.779
trying to tell a story in several times.

558
00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:59.700
Well, what I thought was a little bit of a shame.

559
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.500
What they did there to make the season 2 season 3 time zone

560
00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:09.480
different from the season 5 time zone is they had Christopher on

561
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.720
the bridge as the communications officer at the beginning of the

562
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.900
episode when we go back onto the bridge.

563
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:20.519
Uh, it's Bryce, uh, who is unconscious.

564
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:21.059
You know me.

565
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:23.640
I don't know who those people are.

566
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:28.680
I know that's a mean, really designed for someone who doesn't know

567
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:29.519
who these people are.

568
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.920
I know, I know, I know.

569
00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:35.640
But it is a shame that we don't get Georgie back for a 2nd or Ash

570
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:36.779
or...

571
00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:39.119
Come on, no, I mean, it would have made the episode, just one

572
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.420
third.

573
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:40.740
That's right. would have been pretty good.

574
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:43.980
If she could have just come in and got between them when they were

575
00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:46.619
beating each other up and she beats them both up or something like

576
00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:47.400
that.

577
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:50.519
We get Jet Reno kind of playing that role, I think, in this

578
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:50.819
episode.

579
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:56.880
Why do you think they made that decision with the new character to

580
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:58.500
make him so grumpy and serious?

581
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:02.039
Oh, I think it was to contrast him with Saru, to make him be the

582
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:05.579
not Saru, essentially, and to...

583
00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:09.720
But he was her previous number one.

584
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:13.980
And so now we have a number one who is prickly.

585
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:16.019
He's a friend of Admiral Vance.

586
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.200
I can't remember the backstory exactly, but his whole family were

587
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:20.099
killed by the Breen.

588
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:20.700
That's important.

589
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:25.740
He was a captain, but he had to accept early retirement.

590
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:28.980
He was persuaded by Vance to accept early retirement because he

591
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:29.819
was a bit of a prick.

592
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:34.019
And so it's to set up this conflict, I think, and to make this

593
00:28:34.019 --> 00:28:38.640
episode about something more than just a time loop, essentially.

594
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:45.660
I think I would have had more fun with the time loop and the, you

595
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:47.220
know, the details from the past.

596
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.700
Look at the rocks in the sand. rocks in the sand, lights are

597
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:51.180
flashing.

598
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:54.539
Oh, look, the camera's basically stationary there.

599
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:56.700
It ain't moving, not a normal discovery episode.

600
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.400
Look, it's still...

601
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:01.079
Now it's still because we're out of the thing.

602
00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:04.740
We've got it established or in dry dark now, and so we've got the

603
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:05.160
steel camera.

604
00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:09.720
Who knew they could hold the camera still with discovery?

605
00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:10.559
Well, there we go.

606
00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:13.079
I think that they were going, do you know what?

607
00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:16.319
Well, one last 90s trek episode. for Discovery, you know?

608
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:17.339
So what they do.

609
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:18.779
So this is the beginning.

610
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.240
This is what relativity does, of course, because relativity

611
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.079
depicts Janeway coming on board the thing for the 1st time.

612
00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:26.880
Oh yeah.

613
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:28.259
I love that bit.

614
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:29.640
That interesting.

615
00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:34.140
And then we get after discovery as well.

616
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.720
So look, beautiful smiling Michael.

617
00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:38.339
I know, keep smiling.

618
00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:40.440
She barely smiles in this episode, you know.

619
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.440
He's a prick to this guy to get rid of him.

620
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.839
And then she she goes, yeah, nice one.

621
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:48.480
You know, I think we were just having this conversation.

622
00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:50.220
And she kind of goes, nice one.

623
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:51.900
He kind of goes, yeah, I hate that sake.

624
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:53.819
So which I kind of like, I think that's great.

625
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.779
Nathan, do you know, in sort of true knight is track style here.

626
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:00.359
I'm going to keep making the comparisons with this episode.

627
00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:03.900
That backdrop of the bridge there isn't that great.

628
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.000
No, it is out of focus.

629
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:08.099
I think it's the effects wall.

630
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:10.740
Like, I think it they probably are in front of the effects wall

631
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:14.519
because the effects wall is normally outside that set to do the

632
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.279
rocks going past the window or the warp effect or whatever.

633
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:18.599
So that's stunning camera.

634
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.759
You know what?

635
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:24.000
My issue with this relationship is, I feel like in discovery

636
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.079
they've learned how to do conflict in really interesting ways, you

637
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.720
know, in with big characters.

638
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:31.319
Yeah.

639
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:35.099
And so to bring it all down, to make it all this containers. people

640
00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:41.039
in a room, essentially, who are very incredibly serious. yeah just

641
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:41.579
don't understand.

642
00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:45.480
And so where are we now?

643
00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:49.200
So we always come back to this same spot in the room, the same

644
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:51.240
spot in the room because that's where they were trying to beam

645
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:51.539
out.

646
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:54.960
This is and it's a bottle show as well.

647
00:30:55.019 --> 00:31:02.819
This is the battle with control from series 2 of discovery.

648
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:08.460
So controls the big sort of scary computeroid thing that, you know

649
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:10.559
Leland is part of and stuff.

650
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:12.539
Section 31 is involved.

651
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.660
They're doing the, they're doing the lower decks thing.

652
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:16.680
It's not a time edit.

653
00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:18.720
It's not a neural attack. not a neural attack.

654
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.099
I'm sorry.

655
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:22.079
Ma and I would do it. with better gangs.

656
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:25.140
But he just says, shit, it's a time bug, and I always love it when

657
00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:25.859
they swear.

658
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.519
And the real name for a time buggies. of course, it's called a

659
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:31.259
crenum chronophage.

660
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.180
Krenim?

661
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.319
What, from the year of hell?

662
00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:37.440
Because the time bug, the time people, right?

663
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:38.819
See?

664
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:39.480
There you go.

665
00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:41.400
You're even referring to non-istract.

666
00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:43.740
And I think the temporal war.

667
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:45.900
Like we're talking about the Temple War.

668
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:47.400
This is the 32nd century.

669
00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:48.839
When is Daniels from?

670
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:51.420
In Enterpace?

671
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.039
30 something century.

672
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.460
And what about what about Braxton?

673
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.319
Like he's 400 years in the past?

674
00:31:58.380 --> 00:31:59.700
He's like 500 years?

675
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.079
in Voyager's future.

676
00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:02.460
And so I know.

677
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:07.079
Back then we were like, 0 my god, that's so far. historic, it's

678
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:07.859
like Shakespeare.

679
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:09.240
Whatever, Braxton.

680
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:14.579
You're like Russ Wilson from TMG, you know.

681
00:32:14.579 --> 00:32:15.240
That's right.

682
00:32:15.299 --> 00:32:20.460
So this too, where she explains why Stammets, Wayne Stammets, is

683
00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:21.779
immune to the thing.

684
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.859
And he just goes, oh, and she goes, never mind. it's fine.

685
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:31.740
Can I ask if they are, if this time bug is... are you complaining

686
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:31.980
about?

687
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:34.259
Disable the craft.

688
00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

689
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:39.960
Is there not an easier way of disabling a craft than cycling it

690
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.819
through various times?

691
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:45.059
You don't get a time loop show, I think, is really the thing.

692
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:47.579
Well, we've never done that before.

693
00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:48.839
That's right.

694
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:50.579
So this is reason...

695
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:51.420
Who's Zora?

696
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:52.740
She doesn't exist.

697
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:53.460
Yeah, yeah.

698
00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:54.180
Oh, bulls.

699
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.500
So this is, of course, the end of series 2 where he gets impaled

700
00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:02.099
but Stammets is aware of the time loop at this point, but Hugh

701
00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:02.640
isn't.

702
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:06.359
And so that's why Hugh says you should be in an induced coma, but

703
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:07.380
of course he's conscious.

704
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.839
And he even says, oh, yeah, I forgot how much this hurt.

705
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.539
Um, so this is us watching Stamets a pre- uh, experience a time

706
00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:15.900
loop.

707
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:20.880
And now we're back in this beautiful room, which seems to have a

708
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.920
different table in it for some reason.

709
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:28.380
Is this is this the room they later on to say, right, we're always

710
00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:29.819
going to end up backing, yeah, deck 13.

711
00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:32.519
And then eventually they actually cut that.

712
00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:37.079
Once they meet Stammets, they say, well, let's all meet in 13 and

713
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.180
so we cut them reappearing in this room.

714
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.220
And this might be the last time we see it.

715
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:48.000
So we're all sort of cycling through um old ideas of what it could

716
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.779
be and we're sort of jumping to various bots in time.

717
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.299
I still can't see anyone having fun in this episode.

718
00:33:54.420 --> 00:33:55.680
It'll come.

719
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:56.519
It'll come.

720
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:59.400
I'll tell you the scene.

721
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:04.200
It was the scene where Stamets and Burnham meet up with each other

722
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:07.440
and there's just such a warmth between the 2 of them.

723
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:08.519
I'm like, yeah, thank you.

724
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:09.719
More of that, Lisa.

725
00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:14.099
See, I like the, my favourite scene is Stammets and Reno, and it's

726
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:18.539
where Stammets tries to get Reno's advice on how to deal with a

727
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:22.139
time loop by saying, hypothetically, it's a hypothetical situation

728
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:22.800
in case.

729
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:24.599
So this is the end of... get back to it.

730
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:28.619
This is the end of series 3 when Asira is taking over the ship.

731
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:30.719
Asyra is the head of the emerald chain.

732
00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:31.800
Remember the green woman.

733
00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:37.380
We've done some of this weird kind of 3 part season finale to

734
00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:38.219
series three.

735
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:40.260
It's what eventually resolves the burn.

736
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.159
At this point, they're still wearing their discovery uniforms, um

737
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:50.099
and, um, uh, Saru's the captain, and she isn't yet.

738
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:52.199
Uh, yeah.

739
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:54.599
I feel like this was a more fun episode.

740
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.360
You'd have this, this, what's the old man's name again?

741
00:34:57.420 --> 00:34:58.739
Rainer.

742
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.159
Oh, you'd have him sort of being more critical about various

743
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:03.360
stages of discussion.

744
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:04.920
Yeah, that would...

745
00:35:04.980 --> 00:35:09.480
But I love and then Reno comes in. like he's about to shoot them.

746
00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:12.539
She comes in and shoots him, then she comes in and punches some

747
00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:17.460
guy and just says, get a better helmet and then she sort of

748
00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:19.739
confronts this guy, which is pretty good.

749
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:26.280
But it's the big, it's the scene between her and Stamets, which I

750
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:27.420
think is the funniest.

751
00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:29.039
And she is great.

752
00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:30.000
She is pretty good.

753
00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:34.679
She's, oh, Roy, I don't know, I don't know.

754
00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:36.119
I don't think she's that funny.

755
00:35:36.179 --> 00:35:37.019
Oh, really?

756
00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:40.619
I just, I feel, I feel like they've learned a lot of lessons from

757
00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:45.119
Discovery and they put in similar but better characters in other

758
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:46.619
shows.

759
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:50.880
You know, the woman from, um, Strange News Wells with the crazy

760
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:51.239
hair.

761
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:52.199
Oh, hell yeah.

762
00:35:52.260 --> 00:35:52.860
What's her name?

763
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:53.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

764
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:54.960
I mean, come on, she's hilarious.

765
00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:56.039
She is hilarious.

766
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:56.639
Marathon.

767
00:35:56.699 --> 00:35:59.820
But Jed Reno's, like, there's some really great stuff between

768
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:03.659
Stammets and Reno particularly kind of early in series three.

769
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:05.579
I think the 2 of them are really good together.

770
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:09.360
Um, and she's properly showy, I think.

771
00:36:09.420 --> 00:36:11.039
Already fairly arid.

772
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:13.139
Do we need another dry character?

773
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.000
What do you mean by Aaron, though?

774
00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:18.059
Because it's full of emotional warmth.

775
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:21.179
You complain that it's so full of emotional warmth.

776
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.639
So now you get a slightly asserved bit character and you complain

777
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:24.360
about that too.

778
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:26.340
Well, it's the emotional warmth inness.

779
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.659
Will you point it out to me?

780
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:31.679
It's, you know, everyone on the bridge loves at one another and

781
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.800
rain is not playing ball and that's why he needs to learn a

782
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:35.760
valuable.

783
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:37.739
That kind of emotional.

784
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:39.000
Oh, how tedious.

785
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:39.900
Good grief.

786
00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:41.340
Oh, why a sheep cross?

787
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:43.139
Oh, I did like this.

788
00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:46.739
The future's not ours to see.

789
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.460
I was just a little girl.

790
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:55.860
This is kind of a reference in a way to Discovery's final fate, and

791
00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:58.559
it's depicted in a short trek, which I've mentioned before called

792
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:03.719
Calypso, which I think is like a beautiful 10 minutes of Star Trek

793
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:07.380
like absolutely stunningly good, and it's set in Discovery's Far

794
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:07.739
Future.

795
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:11.880
And that's the 1st time we see Zora, actually, is in that before

796
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:13.679
she turns up in the actual show.

797
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.539
Those Discovery's final fate.

798
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:22.320
It ends up adrift in like in the future where everyone has gone

799
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:25.800
and a guy turns up on the ship.

800
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:27.900
It's really, it's beautiful.

801
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.519
Like it's stunningly beautiful.

802
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:31.260
It's just a drift and we don't know why.

803
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:32.340
And then...

804
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:35.219
Well, so they told you the ending, in a short strik before we got

805
00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:35.760
to the ending.

806
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:39.420
Well, in fact, they go a bit of a way to make sure that ending

807
00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:44.579
happens in the final episode further than I think they really

808
00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:45.239
needed to.

809
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:47.219
You remember that short trip we did?

810
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:48.960
That needs to be our end point.

811
00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:49.860
Yeah, yeah.

812
00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:50.880
And I don't think they had to.

813
00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:52.440
Or at least show the possibility.

814
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:57.000
But it gave us a 1st hint of the 32nd century, it gave us our 1st

815
00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:57.900
hint of Zora.

816
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:02.460
Did they manage to, while sort of leading up to that, tell us how

817
00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:05.280
wonderful Michael Burnham was for 2 hours as well?

818
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:06.119
Yeah, they did.

819
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:08.039
It's really good I bet they did.

820
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.440
So she ends up married to book and having a lovely son who's a

821
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.860
Starfleet Starfleet captain and, you know...

822
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:19.079
I remember, so you know, with the gray in her hair, I'm thinking

823
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:19.739
she look really cool.

824
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.699
They have quite good ageing makeup in the 32nd century, which is

825
00:38:23.699 --> 00:38:24.360
kind of nice.

826
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:26.219
What the hell's going on in the effects wall now?

827
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:30.719
So that is Federation headquarters, but it's had the shit blown

828
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:34.920
out of it by the green, who are heading off in that they're in

829
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:36.719
that big green ship over to the right.

830
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:40.199
And they have these massive fuck off ships, these huge

831
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:43.320
dreadnaughts towards the end, which are pretty impressive.

832
00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:45.300
So this is what's at stake.

833
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:46.320
Okay?

834
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:49.380
Because we've been in the time loop and we haven't escaped it

835
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:53.760
Molen Lock end up getting the progenitors technology, selling it

836
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:56.099
to the brain and the brain use it to destroy the federation.

837
00:38:56.940 --> 00:39:01.860
I think if this was an episode that was walking through, I don't

838
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:06.719
know, the past history of Duty Space 9, I'd be all over this shit

839
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:10.139
but I'm going, what is this?

840
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:10.920
Where are we?

841
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:13.199
I don't recognise this at all?

842
00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:15.719
Maybe I'm just not inured enough in discovery.

843
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:19.260
And again, I think with because Discovery is being broadcast into

844
00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:24.539
a world where all of its episodes are always available and always

845
00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:25.500
have been.

846
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.679
Like since 1st broadcast, you've been able to go back and watch

847
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.659
any episode of Discovery at any time.

848
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.380
And that wasn't the Deep Space Night. in these moments, like big

849
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:34.739
moments.

850
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:35.400
I don't know.

851
00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:37.380
Like, do you remember when we go back in time and trials and

852
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.320
tribulations, everyone's like, 0 my god, it's the Enterprise.

853
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:41.880
How amazing. lets go and have some fun.

854
00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:45.059
We're seeing all these moments and it's just like, oh, yeah

855
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:45.659
remember that happened?

856
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.280
Yeah, oh, and that happened as well.

857
00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:48.960
It's like, this is a big moment.

858
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:51.780
Like, I don't know. this is a big moment and this is the

859
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:57.239
conversation that saves the day where he reaches out and actually

860
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.960
talks to her and she talks about how she felt when she was on the

861
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.380
ship and it's the fact that he is able to tell you young Michael

862
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:10.260
Burnham that that's how she felt and to talk about her as a person

863
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:14.760
that enables that persuades her to stand down and let him do his

864
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:15.420
job.

865
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.039
So this scene, even though, like it's, you know, like it's pivotal

866
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.619
because it tells us what's at stake, but it also tells us how the

867
00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:24.360
episode's going to be solved, I think.

868
00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:29.280
There's an attempt, yeah, there's an attempt.

869
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.880
Oh, also very just 2 people stand in a room.

870
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:33.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

871
00:40:33.659 --> 00:40:35.219
You've seen Star Trek before, though.

872
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.639
I mean, even Starfleet Academy is very often just 2 people talking

873
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:39.119
in a room.

874
00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:41.820
I'm not used to this in Kerstman Trek, though.

875
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:44.639
It does actually happen more than you think.

876
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.559
Oh, is that right?

877
00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:47.039
Yeah, yeah.

878
00:40:47.099 --> 00:40:48.840
They just distract you by whooping the camera.

879
00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:50.219
Just so serious.

880
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:51.300
Look at the pair of them.

881
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

882
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:52.380
Yeah.

883
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.260
Yeah, I know what you mean. a fun time travel episode.

884
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:56.880
Have some joy in your heart.

885
00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:58.860
But they're like, look at that.

886
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.960
She smiled, beautiful, Michael.

887
00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:02.519
She's so enthusiastic.

888
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:03.659
Yeah.

889
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:06.239
So, and we've solved the problem as well.

890
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:10.199
And it was partly, was it Rainer who came up with a solution?

891
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:13.800
Are you sold on this character, this man?

892
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:16.260
Um, well, you know, we've seen it before.

893
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:17.340
Do you know what I mean?

894
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.219
It is actually quite a good foil for Michael because it is the

895
00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:23.099
opposite of, you know, it's the kind of thing that everyone says

896
00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:29.340
about Michael, which is that she's too, It's all very loving and

897
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:33.599
it's all very collaborative and and that kind of thing and

898
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.179
everyone's very nice and everyone loves each other, the things

899
00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:37.139
that you complain about.

900
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.019
And they drop him in, not to be that.

901
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:41.099
Do you know what I mean?

902
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.380
Like, he's you.

903
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:44.460
This is reaching.

904
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:45.119
Yeah, yeah.

905
00:41:45.179 --> 00:41:45.780
Well, that's right.

906
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:47.099
I mean, he'll be found to be wrong.

907
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:51.480
All this, let's all have a high school musical group hug, you

908
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:51.599
know.

909
00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:54.599
Well, speaking of high school musical, his stammets in his scene

910
00:41:54.599 --> 00:42:02.099
with Jet Reno, and he is doing a good job of being a bad actor

911
00:42:02.099 --> 00:42:05.219
because he has to pretend that he hasn't just popped in here from

912
00:42:05.219 --> 00:42:06.780
a time loop.

913
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.659
And so now he's asking for advice.

914
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:13.019
What would you do if the ship was caught in a time loop?

915
00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:15.960
And it's just hypothetical and stuff.

916
00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:19.739
And then she says, Stamets, are you caught in a time loop right

917
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:20.099
now?

918
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.139
Which I thought, that's pretty cool.

919
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:24.960
Which is okay.

920
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:25.739
No.

921
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:29.579
It's kind of a very lower deck sort of thing, you know what I

922
00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:29.820
mean?

923
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.760
Like it is because being caught in a time loop is something that

924
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.880
happens to these stupid characters like literally all the time.

925
00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:39.119
Yeah, which I just think is pretty great.

926
00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:40.380
And it's pretty great.

927
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:43.260
That's what I know.

928
00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:43.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

929
00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:44.400
Yeah.

930
00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:45.719
What?

931
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:45.960
Me?

932
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:49.199
Now I complain in all in all those episodes where weird things

933
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.780
start happening to people and nobody says, have you noticed that

934
00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:54.239
weird examples have not happened to that person?

935
00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:57.119
Jack Reno just goes, you're in a time loop.

936
00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:58.860
Of course I'm not.

937
00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:01.019
And so she got out.

938
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:02.639
So I also like the thing.

939
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:06.179
So the thing that he does now, which he says, sport, spore breach

940
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:10.079
mushrooms will grow on your lungs.

941
00:43:10.139 --> 00:43:11.280
Get out of here.

942
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:13.500
They all go out and then he does it again.

943
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:17.519
And then the 2nd time he does it, he says, it worries me that they

944
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.559
don't realise that that's not a thing.

945
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:21.840
They don't know that that's not a thing.

946
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:26.280
And then when we're back in season one and he wants to clear the

947
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:30.000
room, he just comes out in and says, I'm really grumpy right now.

948
00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:31.320
Everyone, go.

949
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:32.760
And they all flee.

950
00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:35.519
And Rainer says, you know, that was quicker than the previous

951
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.619
spore breach things.

952
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.860
So again, there's a commentary on where he's come from.

953
00:43:41.579 --> 00:43:45.059
No, I know they're not doing this with the new character, but look

954
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.679
at the walls between them in this.

955
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:49.440
This is what I see, I like this, and I want to be with these

956
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.860
people, and they're giving each other something in the scene, which

957
00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:54.300
is a smile.

958
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:55.079
Yeah, yeah.

959
00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:57.059
And Michael smiled. you know what I mean?

960
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:59.219
Like holy crap, just more of that, please.

961
00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:04.440
Now, again, I know I'm in the wrong place to complain about all

962
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.179
the technobabble, but oh, boy.

963
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.440
But this is not the techno babble where it's, you know, the

964
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:12.119
Verteron field and stuff like that.

965
00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:15.599
He's saying it will rip all of our molecules in different

966
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:17.579
directions for all eternity.

967
00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:21.480
Like that's a fabulous way of staying what the stakes are, right?

968
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:27.539
And all of the techno babble here is like more like that than, you

969
00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:31.679
know, field status nominal and and all of that sort of crap that

970
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:32.699
we usually have.

971
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.599
And it's all designed to make the plot work.

972
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:40.800
Like it makes fun of the fact that this, this time bubble is so

973
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:45.480
engineered to make the, the character thing land.

974
00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:47.820
You know, it makes no sense really.

975
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:52.619
Uh, it's entirely here just so that um, so that Rainer can learn a

976
00:44:52.619 --> 00:44:53.340
valuable lesson.

977
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:54.659
Oh, here are the lights again.

978
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:57.840
Because you just grab the information out of the air there. put it

979
00:44:57.840 --> 00:44:58.980
off into the iPad.

980
00:44:59.099 --> 00:45:01.679
Oh, would it be lovely if you could do that?

981
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:02.400
So good.

982
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.320
I love it.

983
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:07.679
The bad thing that, you know, the display that she just has on the

984
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:08.039
screen.

985
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:12.119
That's what we have instead of tricorders in the 32nd century is

986
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:14.219
those hands-up displays.

987
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:15.000
It's so good.

988
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:19.380
Do you know, I, I don't think I'm used to bottle shows in Curtis

989
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:19.980
and Track.

990
00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:20.460
I did.

991
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:22.559
I think that shocked me as well.

992
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:23.639
We don't go anywhere.

993
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:25.559
Literally not going anywhere.

994
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:28.860
We're not going to be seeing any crazy weird, you know, alien

995
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:32.159
planets that we normally, so the other thing I usually complain.

996
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.639
I'm never happy, am I?

997
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:38.280
Oh, I love that cat.

998
00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:39.780
What's his name Grudge.

999
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.099
She.

1000
00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:41.579
Grudge.

1001
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.380
She's a queen, remember?

1002
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:44.039
She's a queen.

1003
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:47.820
So this scene, of course, the 2 of them had their awkwardnesses

1004
00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:50.880
that we saw in the previously on and she's coming in here hoping

1005
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.719
not to see book and this is more awkward because they're in the

1006
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:56.039
relationship.

1007
00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:57.780
So this is series four.

1008
00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:02.340
Like, she's just been made captain, according to him in dialogue.

1009
00:46:02.340 --> 00:46:03.780
And this...

1010
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:06.480
Look at him, Nathan. couldn't she just take a moment out and have

1011
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:07.139
sex with him?

1012
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.920
I mean, look at him.

1013
00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:09.179
They do kiss, though.

1014
00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:11.760
Oh, I would have gone further.

1015
00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:13.380
Sorry, fuck the time, Luke.

1016
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:14.039
Look at him.

1017
00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:14.940
Just look at him.

1018
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.579
Jeez, why does she believe it?

1019
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.400
I love looking at her smile.

1020
00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:21.000
Look at her.

1021
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:21.840
You know me.

1022
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:22.619
Precise.

1023
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:25.199
Look at the chemistry between the 2 of them.

1024
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:28.559
Was the separation because of all the that happened in series

1025
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:29.039
four?

1026
00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:33.300
Yeah, yeah. earlier on in series 5 where they kind of go, I don't

1027
00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:35.880
know how to be with you and they spend time together, they solve

1028
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.760
the space problem, but they conclude that they can't really be

1029
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:39.420
together.

1030
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:43.019
Could you ever imagine saying to that?

1031
00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:44.519
I don't know how to be with you.

1032
00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.380
He betrayed her, remember?

1033
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:48.659
And he went off...

1034
00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:49.739
I know he's beautiful though.

1035
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:55.260
And this is the beginning of us working together back to this.

1036
00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:56.219
Do you know what I mean?

1037
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:57.599
That's how this works.

1038
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:00.360
And that's what this scene is doing, is...

1039
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:04.559
It's the only conclusion of season 5 could make, that's right.

1040
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.260
It would be that she would get back.

1041
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:07.679
Yeah, yeah.

1042
00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:10.139
And so we're heading in that direction from here on in, but it

1043
00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:10.619
starts here.

1044
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:11.639
Oh my god.

1045
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:12.119
I know.

1046
00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:14.159
We're going up.

1047
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:16.199
I know, it's out of myself, is it?

1048
00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:18.719
This is 9 straight, I'm telling you now.

1049
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:19.380
Yeah.

1050
00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:20.219
Come on.

1051
00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:21.059
Spore breach.

1052
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.519
Yeah, I'm a little disturbed that my crew doesn't know that isn't

1053
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:24.239
a real thing.

1054
00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:28.199
And just that very stammets look, and now she's, now it's just

1055
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.440
yelling at people because she's so funny, Nathan.

1056
00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:35.519
You know, look at these engineering sets, right?

1057
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:38.940
It's like sort of gun metal gray, isn't it, from Enterprise?

1058
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:39.659
Yeah, yeah.

1059
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:43.920
And I, it just goes to show how far they've come just in Kurtzman

1060
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:44.400
trick, right?

1061
00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:48.119
I mean, think of strange new worlds and that enormous engineering

1062
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:48.659
set.

1063
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.480
Well, that's mostly the effects wall, to be fair, but it is an

1064
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:52.500
enormous set.

1065
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:55.920
And this is not really engineering because this ship doesn't have

1066
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.980
the warp couring the same way or, you know, the focus is.

1067
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:00.480
A cup of time, do you think?

1068
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.440
when we look back and go, 0 my god, how primitive...

1069
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:07.920
I think, you know, this episode doesn't look super expensive and

1070
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.139
it does look, I mean, it's only 2 years ago.

1071
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.579
And early discovery, I think, still looks astounding.

1072
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.280
And I think it's not just because of the money.

1073
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:19.500
It's because it's creative.

1074
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:20.699
Enterprise.

1075
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.539
I told you this was all blues this episode. blues and browns

1076
00:48:24.539 --> 00:48:25.079
look.

1077
00:48:25.139 --> 00:48:29.760
You know, those sets are so streets ahead of anything that you get

1078
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:33.480
on 90s track because they're so dynamic and there's lots of

1079
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.880
lighting and different panels and stuff.

1080
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:39.300
I think there is some dynamism in enterprises sets.

1081
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:40.800
It's just that boring colour.

1082
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:44.280
I think I love the engineering that you crawl all over.

1083
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:45.239
That is kind of cool.

1084
00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:46.139
That is kind of cool.

1085
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.139
But this is the this is the special corridor that they introduce

1086
00:48:49.139 --> 00:48:50.159
in series two.

1087
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:54.000
Like they have they have enough money to build another discovery

1088
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.360
corridor and say this is their best corridor, which is why they

1089
00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:58.199
keep meeting here.

1090
00:48:58.260 --> 00:49:00.840
No, they built a corridor.

1091
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:02.699
They wanted to show unlike 90s straight.

1092
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:05.699
We could run in this show from one end of the corridor to the

1093
00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:05.880
other.

1094
00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:07.739
We haven't got to go around corners all the time.

1095
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:12.059
You've seen Tilly and Michael in their disco shirts, like shirts

1096
00:49:12.059 --> 00:49:14.699
which have disco on them for discovery running through the

1097
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:16.079
corridors for exercise.

1098
00:49:16.139 --> 00:49:17.820
Oh, yes.

1099
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:19.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1100
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:19.679
Yeah.

1101
00:49:19.739 --> 00:49:23.699
Yeah, so you remind me of all fun times I've had with Discovery in

1102
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:24.000
the past.

1103
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:26.340
Why don't we ever choose those episodes?

1104
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:28.380
So you peaked series five.

1105
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:28.980
Can I just say?

1106
00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:31.559
over and over again.

1107
00:49:31.739 --> 00:49:36.119
I did, I did. that's right Sorry about that.

1108
00:49:36.179 --> 00:49:38.579
Sorry, Joe. Sorry to go, though.

1109
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:40.679
Actually, maybe there's a minute series 5 episode.

1110
00:49:40.739 --> 00:49:43.980
You are responsible for your own pain as usual.

1111
00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:48.539
This is Lorca's ship, and again, Saru and Landry are on our way

1112
00:49:48.539 --> 00:49:50.219
mission, so we're not going to see them.

1113
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:56.159
Landry is, of course, the other cylon, remember who got torn to

1114
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:57.599
pieces by the Data Gray?

1115
00:49:57.659 --> 00:49:58.980
Okay.

1116
00:49:58.980 --> 00:49:59.699
How do you remember?

1117
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.460
She has the best death in all of discovery.

1118
00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:03.300
It just eats her.

1119
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:05.820
It gets ripped to pieces by the time of grade.

1120
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:08.820
And so we even she, though, right?

1121
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:11.219
I felt something.

1122
00:50:11.340 --> 00:50:12.300
She was such a bitch.

1123
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:17.639
This guy, no, you haven't seen him in any other episode yet.

1124
00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:21.659
I don't know why you're expecting a relationship with him at this

1125
00:50:21.659 --> 00:50:22.139
point.

1126
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:26.159
So I'm just used to some charisma from these people.

1127
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:31.800
Yeah, so, so what, what's happening now is, of course, we are in

1128
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:37.500
the last time loop, and the difference with this is we can now

1129
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:42.840
break the timeline of space reasons.

1130
00:50:42.900 --> 00:50:43.920
Right?

1131
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.780
I love this man.

1132
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:46.679
What's his name?

1133
00:50:47.940 --> 00:50:49.860
It's so good.

1134
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:52.860
So he comes in and notice that.

1135
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.380
He is not talking to her because she's a mutineer and he doesn't

1136
00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:58.559
quite know how to react to her, but he does have to tell and

1137
00:50:58.559 --> 00:50:59.519
because she's got different hair.

1138
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:01.619
He saw camp.

1139
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:06.119
He goes, red is definitely your colour. is periodically gay.

1140
00:51:06.179 --> 00:51:12.119
And don't you remember in the episode of Starfleet Academy that

1141
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.780
had a saurian as well, who was welcoming the students in to have

1142
00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:18.000
their medicals done, who was clearly gay?

1143
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:21.420
Now, the thing that I think is great about this is no one has

1144
00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:24.059
mentioned that Michael's on board at this point, and it never

1145
00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:27.480
occurred to me that he would, she would meet her, and of course

1146
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:29.639
she would, but and it was the obvious thing.

1147
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:32.940
This is what always happened to these episodes.

1148
00:51:33.059 --> 00:51:35.159
I never thought it would happen that never, ever occurred to me.

1149
00:51:35.219 --> 00:51:36.719
It's never been open as a possibility.

1150
00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:38.039
None of them have discussed it.

1151
00:51:38.099 --> 00:51:43.320
And you suddenly realise how incredibly different. the details are

1152
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:43.559
great.

1153
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:45.900
Again, it just isn't very fun.

1154
00:51:46.380 --> 00:51:48.119
I think no.

1155
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:50.820
I mean, I love the performance difference.

1156
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:51.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1157
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:52.380
And the look of her.

1158
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:56.760
Just the look of her from series one with the shorter hair. and I

1159
00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:01.619
mean, look at the fear she's so contained and so fierce. and it

1160
00:52:01.619 --> 00:52:02.820
was so kind of self-hating.

1161
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:06.059
And the thing is, the reason that she's like that with this

1162
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:10.320
Michael, the reason that she can't be persuaded is that she's she

1163
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:12.840
cannot believe that she's got those 4 pips.

1164
00:52:12.900 --> 00:52:14.940
She can't believe that she's captain.

1165
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:17.639
Because how could that ever have happened?

1166
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:18.840
It's kind of sad, isn't it?

1167
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:20.159
That's sad.

1168
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:23.219
And so Michael gets to say it like she's unconscious.

1169
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:25.139
So the other thing that I think is really great.

1170
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:29.820
So again, we've talked before about fist fights on Star Trek, and

1171
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:33.840
they are a cheap way of getting action happening, but we've had 2

1172
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:36.659
pretty good fist fights here, and this is a fist fight that

1173
00:52:36.659 --> 00:52:39.780
matters because it's between the 2 of these people, you know.

1174
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:41.280
It's not just the bucket heads.

1175
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.760
I think the, how they disguise the stunt people here.

1176
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:45.239
Oh, really?

1177
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:46.739
The files interesting is so clever.

1178
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:47.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1179
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:50.039
Because you can't tell at any point, can you?

1180
00:52:50.099 --> 00:52:52.679
And look how fierce Michael is, and they're the 2 of them.

1181
00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:55.739
Their faces have been shot in that special effect shot there.

1182
00:52:55.800 --> 00:52:58.860
I mean, I do like girl on girl action.

1183
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:00.119
I'd say that loud.

1184
00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:02.820
I like it when Michael beats men up quite a lot.

1185
00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:05.159
I complained in that episode.

1186
00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:07.860
Do you remember when she was fighting that green woman for ages

1187
00:53:07.860 --> 00:53:09.059
for like 15 minutes?

1188
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:10.559
I was like, is this ever going to win?

1189
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:13.559
This was just long enough.

1190
00:53:13.619 --> 00:53:16.079
Yeah, well, take 90% off while I say that's true.

1191
00:53:16.139 --> 00:53:20.159
So the other thing too, which I think is really good, is my call

1192
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:23.219
who we've kind of forgotten at this point was brought up by

1193
00:53:23.219 --> 00:53:23.880
Vulcans.

1194
00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:26.519
Like nothing really has been mentioned about it for the last 3

1195
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:26.820
years.

1196
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.019
It's not that important.

1197
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:32.099
She's brought up by, you know, Sarek and Amanda.

1198
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:38.159
And so to have our Michael be the one who does the Vulcan nerve

1199
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:42.659
pinch on much more Vulcan Michael, I think is a surprise and quite

1200
00:53:42.659 --> 00:53:46.380
a good choice, another reminder of them being the same character.

1201
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:49.980
And of course, getting giving her the opportunity to give a speech

1202
00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:51.119
to a younger self.

1203
00:53:51.179 --> 00:53:53.400
She can't hear it and won't remember it.

1204
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:56.639
So it doesn't matter, but like I think that's worth doing as

1205
00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:57.179
well.

1206
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:02.039
Like, we get a sense of how Michael has changed over this time in

1207
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:03.599
this episode, which I think is pretty good.

1208
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:11.579
I just imagine, like, imagine if Giorgio went back in time and met

1209
00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:15.539
herself from series one as the emperor, she'd be, imagine the bond

1210
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:19.500
moths that would be flying between, I reckon, I reckon Emperor

1211
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:22.980
Giorgio from the past would have been pretty contemptuous of our

1212
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:24.059
Giorgio.

1213
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:26.280
She'd be a poor... she.

1214
00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:27.480
You sold out.

1215
00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:28.440
Oh my god.

1216
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:33.960
And you telling me you don't have men and women at your feet. sex

1217
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:34.500
slaves.

1218
00:54:34.619 --> 00:54:35.099
Come on now.

1219
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:40.440
So here we have pushback from Stamets with Rainer and, you know

1220
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:45.659
Stamets, but Rainer is showing some understanding of Stamets

1221
00:54:45.659 --> 00:54:47.639
already. you know what I mean?

1222
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:48.539
Is he?

1223
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:49.559
Yeah, yeah.

1224
00:54:49.619 --> 00:54:52.739
Well, no, because he's saying, he's saying, look, I thought that

1225
00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:55.679
you were the science guy who liked being the person who everyone

1226
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:58.800
depended on and that that was part of your deal.

1227
00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:01.980
And Stammets is saying, no, actually, you know, I'm really quite

1228
00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:03.000
stressed and stuff like that.

1229
00:55:03.059 --> 00:55:06.420
And like, you can see him learning and trying to connect.

1230
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:10.380
There was that great line in the, in the, in the, um, in the

1231
00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:17.280
previously on where, um, where Rainer says connecting isn't what

1232
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:21.960
in my skill set, do you know, one of my skills, and Michael says

1233
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:24.420
no, connection isn't a skill, it's a choice.

1234
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.960
And I think that's like that's properly good and that's obviously

1235
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:32.460
what Star Trek is about in discovery on some level. like on every

1236
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:32.820
level.

1237
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:33.780
Do you know what I mean?

1238
00:55:33.780 --> 00:55:35.340
The planetary level.

1239
00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:40.019
You do things our touchy fevy way or you're out. you know, that's

1240
00:55:40.019 --> 00:55:41.639
the root beer that is the Federation.

1241
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:42.599
Do you know what I mean?

1242
00:55:42.659 --> 00:55:44.820
He doesn't want to hug them all.

1243
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:46.019
Maybe he wants to be an arsehole.

1244
00:55:46.019 --> 00:55:48.059
No, but he's still doing his job.

1245
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:49.079
But he learns.

1246
00:55:49.139 --> 00:55:52.739
Look, like Stavitz is enjoying the fact that Rainer has learned

1247
00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:56.340
and it's Rainer, obviously, who has to talk down Reese, who he

1248
00:55:56.340 --> 00:56:01.260
shut down before, and has to talk down other Michael, too.

1249
00:56:01.739 --> 00:56:07.019
Look how contained Tilly's hair is back in the past. past hair.

1250
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.920
That's right She got like those fabulous waterfall in the future

1251
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:11.099
right?

1252
00:56:11.219 --> 00:56:11.820
isn't she?

1253
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:13.260
cascading from her head.

1254
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:15.780
Oh, who was that hot man at the back there?

1255
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:19.559
So that's the black guy or the Asian guy?

1256
00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:20.880
Yeah, that's beautiful.

1257
00:56:20.940 --> 00:56:21.900
That's Bryce.

1258
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:23.400
He was the communication officer.

1259
00:56:23.820 --> 00:56:28.800
But he's in it less and less from series 3 or 4 onwards, and he

1260
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:29.579
altered...

1261
00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:31.199
Jetmar and Owo.

1262
00:56:31.260 --> 00:56:33.780
I can't tell the difference from season one to season 5.

1263
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:37.559
Oh, no, they had much different hair in season five, and Dem had a

1264
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.079
small, had a smaller thing on her head.

1265
00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:44.880
She's got her big 23rd century cyborg thing and she has a much

1266
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:45.239
less one.

1267
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:46.380
I love that.

1268
00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:47.760
What was that robot woman's name?

1269
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:48.780
She's fabulous.

1270
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:50.880
Oh, Airiam.

1271
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:52.260
The one where she dies.

1272
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:53.579
Oh, boy.

1273
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:54.179
So good.

1274
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:57.719
That's a great episode. it's so good And so that's central to

1275
00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:58.019
this.

1276
00:56:58.079 --> 00:56:58.800
Do you know what I mean?

1277
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:02.639
Like, because, like, this is a space problem that is solved

1278
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:06.840
because these things are so cheesy though, aren't they?

1279
00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:09.780
The, like, little character beats that she knows about them, that

1280
00:57:09.780 --> 00:57:10.800
she's learned about them.

1281
00:57:10.860 --> 00:57:15.420
But she solved the problem by the sort of connection that she was

1282
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:18.059
saying that Rainer had to practice.

1283
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:19.380
This is what we do on the ship.

1284
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:20.519
We reach out to one another.

1285
00:57:20.579 --> 00:57:22.619
We know one another, we connect with one another.

1286
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:26.639
This is a space problem that's solved precisely by that because

1287
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:31.260
she's able to convince them that she's to be trusted because she

1288
00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:32.820
knows them and cares about them.

1289
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:34.559
What do you think she is?

1290
00:57:34.619 --> 00:57:37.380
I mean, do they think she's someone who's come on and put a wig on

1291
00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:37.800
or something?

1292
00:57:37.860 --> 00:57:40.559
Like, who do they think this Michael Burnham is then?

1293
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:41.760
If she's not from the shape?

1294
00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:44.039
Shap shifter parasite neural thing?

1295
00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:44.820
Do you know what I mean?

1296
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:48.059
Like, oh, you have watched Star Trek before, haven't you?

1297
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:52.559
But she could be lying when she goes, oh, I know when you die.

1298
00:57:52.619 --> 00:58:00.300
Yeah, yeah, but what she says is she says that you willingly give

1299
00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:02.699
your life to save everyone.

1300
00:58:02.820 --> 00:58:04.380
I've seen how you die.

1301
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:09.300
You get taken over by control and you let yourself die rather than

1302
00:58:09.300 --> 00:58:10.860
harming your friends.

1303
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:13.260
And they all say, no, no, that would never happen.

1304
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.840
She would fight, and Ariam says, no, that's what I would do.

1305
00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:18.719
And so, you know me.

1306
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:21.119
No, a hypothetical scenario.

1307
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:23.219
It's about it's about trust.

1308
00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:24.599
That's what all this is about.

1309
00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:26.699
It's because she's able to connect with them.

1310
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:32.280
Even though they are suspicious of her, her real her, you know

1311
00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:35.219
specialist Vernum from series one.

1312
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:39.719
She's able to convince them because she's someone who reaches out

1313
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:40.559
and knows them.

1314
00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:46.079
And so there's that question that, that, that, um, that Rainer

1315
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:49.739
asks at the beginning, what if your method is the wrong method?

1316
00:58:49.739 --> 00:58:53.880
And then we go to a, a scene break and let that question hang in

1317
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:58.500
the air and this whole episode has led 1st to her being able to

1318
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:00.539
demonstrate that it works.

1319
00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:03.119
And then more importantly, Rainer being able to demonstrate that

1320
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:03.539
it works.

1321
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:08.400
And so what I think is good about this, even though it's very

1322
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.840
earnest and it's a bottle show and it's not, it's the usual kind

1323
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:16.440
of level of discovery spectacular, but nothing kind of

1324
00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.099
breathtaking, is that it's a well-written script that's doing

1325
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:22.019
something in every scene.

1326
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:24.059
I think it's properly correct.

1327
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:27.719
No, but would you rather watch something worthy, but dull, or

1328
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:31.320
would you rather watch something, you know, energetic, but

1329
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:31.800
throwaway.

1330
00:59:31.860 --> 00:59:36.420
I would like to do I would like Star Trek to do both things.

1331
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:37.559
Do you know what I mean?

1332
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:40.920
I'd like Star Trek B worthy sometimes and be fun sometimes.

1333
00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:45.960
I knew from the 1st scene of this episode where we were going to

1334
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.619
end up, which was Michael Burnham being right, because that's what

1335
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:50.760
this show always does.

1336
00:59:50.820 --> 00:59:53.219
But she's writing this particular thing.

1337
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.139
She's right about this connection thing.

1338
00:59:55.260 --> 00:59:57.480
Look, there she is smiling at Eric.

1339
00:59:57.539 --> 00:59:59.880
We've established all of this stuff before.

1340
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:01.440
Because it's the feet of the show.

1341
01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:04.980
It's what the show is essentially about, you know.

1342
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:07.980
And it needs to be restated every year, I think.

1343
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:10.739
This is the season where they, you know, this is the episode where

1344
01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:14.699
they do that and that's why they bring him in so that we have an

1345
01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:17.519
so that we can have an episode about that this year.

1346
01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:21.960
I could just imagine a version of that scene where she goes on the

1347
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:28.860
bridge, just infused with wear and and like great warmth, but it's

1348
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:29.880
again, it's so serious.

1349
01:00:29.940 --> 01:00:33.179
It is serious, but I think she's very warm in it.

1350
01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:35.159
Like, I think she is very warm in it.

1351
01:00:35.219 --> 01:00:37.980
It's Saniqua. smiling at people.

1352
01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:40.800
Like I don't think it gets warmer than that.

1353
01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:45.300
So, so this is the counterpoint of the scene where he shuts him

1354
01:00:45.300 --> 01:00:48.239
down and tells him to shut up and not to speculate and not to

1355
01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:51.599
contribute in the bridge discussion, and now he has to show that

1356
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:55.679
he knows him, and, you know, he has to reach out the way that

1357
01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:57.960
Michael reaches out, something personal, you know.

1358
01:00:59.699 --> 01:01:01.980
You love the curves.

1359
01:01:02.099 --> 01:01:03.780
It's like, well, he knows.

1360
01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:08.820
But he's a classic, but do you know what it's the curves of?

1361
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:13.500
It's the curves of Kurt Enterprise that we were talking about.

1362
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:16.800
He loves the curves of the Edgeprise ship, and of course he's on

1363
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:21.480
discovery, which is, you know, a triangle and a circle and

1364
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:22.860
everything's flat.

1365
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:26.219
So it is a kind of slide digger, what discovery looks like.

1366
01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:26.639
I think.

1367
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:30.480
This show really ain't for me, is it?

1368
01:01:30.539 --> 01:01:32.099
I think it's good.

1369
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:36.059
It's properly doing fun things, I think.

1370
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:38.639
You think this is fun.

1371
01:01:38.699 --> 01:01:39.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1372
01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:41.219
Because it's time with these people.

1373
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:42.659
It's time with these people.

1374
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:44.519
It's a story about something.

1375
01:01:44.579 --> 01:01:48.119
It's a time loop where we get to learn more about Mike or where we

1376
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:50.579
get to see this relationship. which is central to this season

1377
01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:53.099
being established properly.

1378
01:01:53.099 --> 01:01:54.480
You know, like I think it's got...

1379
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:57.420
That proves to me that aim for me because I don't want to spend

1380
01:01:57.420 --> 01:01:58.800
more time with Michael Burnham.

1381
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:01.559
I planned plenty of time with her in the 1st 4 years.

1382
01:02:01.619 --> 01:02:04.139
Let's give some of the other characters a bit of lie.

1383
01:02:04.139 --> 01:02:07.980
And I don't need the show to reiterate its touchy feeling.

1384
01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:09.539
I love the touchy feeling.

1385
01:02:09.539 --> 01:02:12.000
I don't like that at all.

1386
01:02:12.059 --> 01:02:17.099
So yeah, this, it just, it's kind of the antithesis of what I want

1387
01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:18.360
from Star Trek, isn't it?

1388
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:22.019
Yeah, I mean, like there are lighter episodes, there are episodes

1389
01:02:22.019 --> 01:02:24.239
that focus on other characters.

1390
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:25.019
Do you know what I mean?

1391
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:27.300
This is a bottle show, which is essentially about these 2

1392
01:02:27.300 --> 01:02:28.199
characters.

1393
01:02:28.260 --> 01:02:30.719
And so no one else gets much of a looking.

1394
01:02:30.780 --> 01:02:31.860
Do you know what I mean?

1395
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:33.480
That is this episode.

1396
01:02:33.539 --> 01:02:36.000
But it's not this show, generally though.

1397
01:02:36.059 --> 01:02:41.519
Again, though, again, like, I'm not crazy about Burnham, and I

1398
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:42.900
really don't like this new character.

1399
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:47.400
So I'm at a disadvantage here that this episode is essentially a

1400
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:50.400
load of two-hander scenes with 2 gators and I'm not enjoying

1401
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:50.940
watching.

1402
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:51.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1403
01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:54.239
Oh, look at Michael.

1404
01:02:54.300 --> 01:02:55.860
There you go.

1405
01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:57.179
Tilly.

1406
01:02:57.900 --> 01:02:58.440
Hot man.

1407
01:02:58.500 --> 01:02:59.639
Yeah.

1408
01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:00.420
Okay.

1409
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:01.679
And so here we go.

1410
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:04.440
So base problem solved for the episode.

1411
01:03:04.500 --> 01:03:06.059
Is that it, though?

1412
01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:08.099
Just a bit of lightning through the view screen.

1413
01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:11.460
I mean, come on, you can do better than this.

1414
01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:12.420
That's for going to warp.

1415
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:13.440
Is that it?

1416
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:13.739
Okay.

1417
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:15.239
Yeah.

1418
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:15.780
Sorry.

1419
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:17.460
The spectacular effects are coming.

1420
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:18.239
Oh my god.

1421
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:19.380
Isoline chips.

1422
01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:22.679
Oh, straight. there we go What are we doing?

1423
01:03:22.739 --> 01:03:24.420
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1424
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.159
So we're picking up the thing.

1425
01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:29.159
Oh, here we go.

1426
01:03:29.219 --> 01:03:31.440
This is pretty gross, isn't it?

1427
01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:34.619
Like his hand is already like super old and he's sort of old

1428
01:03:34.619 --> 01:03:40.380
enough anyway, but now we're back, where we were and we've broken

1429
01:03:40.380 --> 01:03:41.280
the time loop.

1430
01:03:41.340 --> 01:03:45.119
And he's the biggest an equal smile of the episode, I think.

1431
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:47.820
Lovely.

1432
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:48.599
Keep it coming.

1433
01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:50.099
Yeah.

1434
01:03:50.099 --> 01:03:51.840
It was so visually, though.

1435
01:03:51.900 --> 01:03:55.260
That was on, that was quite an underwhelming out of the loop

1436
01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:55.739
wasn't it?

1437
01:03:55.860 --> 01:03:57.539
Yeah, because they just go into war.

1438
01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:00.840
It just sort of went, well, it's the same thing that we've been

1439
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:01.739
seeing every episode.

1440
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:02.820
You know what I mean?

1441
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:04.320
Every time they went through the loop.

1442
01:04:04.380 --> 01:04:06.960
So it just ends with them turning up in the same place in the

1443
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:07.739
thing again.

1444
01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:11.820
Nathan, possibly, you spend many a discovery episode going, oh, my

1445
01:04:11.820 --> 01:04:15.480
God, look, there isn't that much of that here. gorgeous.

1446
01:04:15.539 --> 01:04:17.280
You didn't say that just saying, did you?

1447
01:04:17.340 --> 01:04:17.940
No.

1448
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:22.139
And I think probably the only visual, visually spectacular bit is

1449
01:04:22.139 --> 01:04:25.199
the bit through the viewscreen with the Destroyed Federation thing

1450
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:27.119
and that's not really that spectacular.

1451
01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:31.019
It's a good effect, but, and, you know, it's meaningful because

1452
01:04:31.019 --> 01:04:34.260
that's the where the show just been.

1453
01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:36.659
Just use the old battle scenes and stuff.

1454
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:37.980
You know, they were in the battle earlier.

1455
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:40.019
They could have used it to just sit through the window.

1456
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:41.039
Do you know what I mean?

1457
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:41.760
They don't do that.

1458
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:42.719
We just see it through the window.

1459
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:48.000
Because they're properly adhering to the bottle show thing.

1460
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:48.900
Do you know what I mean?

1461
01:04:49.019 --> 01:04:52.260
we're just in discovery for this episode.

1462
01:04:53.820 --> 01:04:56.820
I'm stopping just like you used to be.

1463
01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:00.539
Oh, yes, there you go. seeing her was a good reminder.

1464
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:02.340
We're always changing.

1465
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:07.079
See, I just think, look at how beautiful that woman is.

1466
01:05:07.139 --> 01:05:07.739
Just stunning.

1467
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:11.579
Yes, so where do we go now?

1468
01:05:11.639 --> 01:05:12.480
That's it.

1469
01:05:12.539 --> 01:05:13.320
I think that's it.

1470
01:05:13.380 --> 01:05:14.340
Is it?

1471
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:14.820
Yeah.

1472
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:19.079
So how's the plot progressed for this arc?

1473
01:05:19.139 --> 01:05:24.780
So we've found one thing, I think, at the moment, we have

1474
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:31.619
discovered that we've just spent 6 minutes. 6 hours in the time

1475
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:32.039
loop.

1476
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:35.880
So we're not like poor old Kelsey Grammar who's trapped in the

1477
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:38.340
time loop for 100s of years or whatever.

1478
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:40.679
And that's really it.

1479
01:05:40.739 --> 01:05:42.900
I think you know, I don't know.

1480
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:45.900
Is there a great heist episode, you know, where they have to go

1481
01:05:45.900 --> 01:05:46.800
down on a planet?

1482
01:05:46.860 --> 01:05:50.159
It's just very adventury and lots of, you know, strain.

1483
01:05:50.219 --> 01:05:54.000
Like, it's a little bit like Strangey Worlds in the tone of it.

1484
01:05:54.059 --> 01:06:00.420
And you see, there's discovery is the the Star Trek series that

1485
01:06:00.420 --> 01:06:06.239
lasts the longest, right, that goes for the longest amount of time

1486
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:09.840
it's also the show that changes the most.

1487
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:11.099
Yeah, yeah.

1488
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.440
And it changes the most deep space nine, I think, would be the

1489
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:14.460
other one.

1490
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:18.300
Um, uh, you know, like obviously every episode of every season of

1491
01:06:18.300 --> 01:06:24.420
um, every season of uh, um, Picard is different.

1492
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:30.179
But there has been a break of over 2 years between season 4 and

1493
01:06:30.179 --> 01:06:31.079
season five.

1494
01:06:31.139 --> 01:06:33.000
Like it's 25 months.

1495
01:06:33.059 --> 01:06:34.800
It's a massive, massive break.

1496
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:37.199
Is that a writer strike?

1497
01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:40.559
There's a rider strike, I think, and then we have difficulty.

1498
01:06:40.619 --> 01:06:42.960
And where COVID kind of happens.

1499
01:06:43.019 --> 01:06:49.920
So season 4 airs from the end of 2021 to 2022 and you can see

1500
01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:51.960
evidence that they're in production.

1501
01:06:52.019 --> 01:06:53.280
Do you know what I mean?

1502
01:06:53.340 --> 01:06:58.440
Like, um, there's that hilarious scene where all of the socially

1503
01:06:58.440 --> 01:07:02.400
distant Starfleet Academy kids, you know, the 1st new Starfleet

1504
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:08.039
Academy class. happens and Michael gives the commencement speech

1505
01:07:08.039 --> 01:07:11.940
and they're all socially distant in the scene.

1506
01:07:12.059 --> 01:07:15.599
But it does, it doesn't seem to affect the way the show looks, I

1507
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:19.320
think, generally speaking, but it is a massive break.

1508
01:07:19.380 --> 01:07:23.099
And so this is really just like, let's get it in and sort of wrap

1509
01:07:23.099 --> 01:07:24.119
everything up quickly.

1510
01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:26.039
It was never going to last.

1511
01:07:26.099 --> 01:07:29.820
See the respect, Nathan there with how she sat in the seat. sat

1512
01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:32.519
upright, all those trek fans will be so happy, won't they?

1513
01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:33.539
Probably not though.

1514
01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:37.500
That is actually, again, just a recreation of the scene, like

1515
01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:42.000
almost a reshoot of the scene at the end of series 4 when she 1st

1516
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:44.159
sits in the captain's chair as captain.

1517
01:07:44.219 --> 01:07:48.119
You know, it's that exact sort of shot with her smiling in the

1518
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:48.960
captain's chair.

1519
01:07:49.019 --> 01:07:52.619
So again, it's reestablishing her character too, I think.

1520
01:07:53.699 --> 01:08:01.079
I'm so used to, um, overblown spectacle in discovery.

1521
01:08:01.139 --> 01:08:04.139
Yeah, like from the very 1st episode, yeah.

1522
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:09.000
Astonishing, um, shot of her in the cell when the ship's blown up

1523
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:13.800
and the shell, you know, from that point on, that I was genuinely

1524
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:17.819
baffled watching this, that it was so contained.

1525
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:19.140
Yeah.

1526
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:23.279
But, you know, like, oh, I can't complain too much about that

1527
01:08:23.279 --> 01:08:27.720
because I love 90s Trek, and all of 90s Trek is 2 people standing

1528
01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:28.380
around it.

1529
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:34.140
So I think I can only, I can only put like my dislike of that

1530
01:08:34.140 --> 01:08:37.859
episode to the fact that, yeah, I wasn't buying into the

1531
01:08:37.859 --> 01:08:42.180
relationship between the 2 of them, not really enjoying that new

1532
01:08:42.180 --> 01:08:42.899
character.

1533
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:44.220
I mean, what does he go on to do?

1534
01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:47.100
Does he go on to have a great journey throughout series 5?

1535
01:08:47.159 --> 01:08:49.380
I think he's probably good. we reach any wonderful conclusions

1536
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:49.739
with him?

1537
01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:51.180
I can't remember to be honest.

1538
01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:55.500
I've not gone back and watched this season.

1539
01:08:55.500 --> 01:09:00.539
Because I've had 59 or 55 episodes of Star Trek to watch in the

1540
01:09:00.539 --> 01:09:05.520
meantime, and that's the rate of one every 2 weeks, more than

1541
01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:05.760
that.

1542
01:09:05.819 --> 01:09:08.880
So, uh, yeah, I haven't had the chance to go back and watch season

1543
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:12.960
4 or season 5 and I do go back and watch the occasional episode of

1544
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:13.560
Discovery.

1545
01:09:13.619 --> 01:09:14.939
I did that the other day.

1546
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.439
I got on the randomiser and got it to pick an episode for me and I

1547
01:09:19.439 --> 01:09:23.039
just thoroughly enjoyed it and was moved by it and it did all of

1548
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:25.439
the things that I wanted discovery to do.

1549
01:09:25.500 --> 01:09:27.779
And I'd like spending time on the ship.

1550
01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:31.739
But I don't think, I don't think I, you know, I know I am a bit

1551
01:09:31.739 --> 01:09:34.380
anti-discovery, but I don't think I'm entirely mad because I think

1552
01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:37.800
if I went and watched the timely episode from series one.

1553
01:09:37.979 --> 01:09:41.819
I would have a wonderful time with it That is more fun for sure.

1554
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:46.680
I do think there is a sort of slovenly comparison to be made with

1555
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:48.659
this episode, that episode.

1556
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:54.119
I mean, I just, I could see the camera zoom in around Harry Mudd

1557
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:57.720
as he's walking around murdering people up on the bridge.

1558
01:09:57.779 --> 01:09:59.100
It's so great.

1559
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.439
Whereas that's kind of none of that.

1560
01:10:01.500 --> 01:10:02.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1561
01:10:02.699 --> 01:10:04.079
It is shot very straight.

1562
01:10:04.140 --> 01:10:05.159
It is very earnest.

1563
01:10:05.220 --> 01:10:07.560
It is played very straight and it is a bottle show.

1564
01:10:07.619 --> 01:10:13.680
But for me, there was enough reminders of all of discovery, the

1565
01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:16.500
fact that we end up in each season of discovery.

1566
01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:18.600
And you're invested in this, right?

1567
01:10:18.659 --> 01:10:20.819
So, of course, our stuff paid off for you.

1568
01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:32.699
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to

1569
01:10:32.699 --> 01:10:34.199
work out where we're going next.

1570
01:10:34.260 --> 01:10:39.479
Predictably this episode of Discovery was my choice, although it

1571
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:41.100
was also largely Joe's choice.

1572
01:10:41.460 --> 01:10:45.539
So able to take his share of the blame.

1573
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:51.420
But this time it's your choice, Joe, and what I want you to do is

1574
01:10:51.420 --> 01:10:57.180
to clear all on the randomise us so that no series are selected.

1575
01:10:57.239 --> 01:10:58.800
So press the code.

1576
01:10:58.800 --> 01:10:59.520
No, you're serious.

1577
01:10:59.939 --> 01:11:01.319
Okay.

1578
01:11:01.380 --> 01:11:02.039
Oh my god.

1579
01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:03.779
I've never been in your hands like this.

1580
01:11:03.899 --> 01:11:04.739
This is so exciting.

1581
01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:06.840
Okay, everything is clear.

1582
01:11:06.899 --> 01:11:10.140
Now I want you to just choose one show.

1583
01:11:10.500 --> 01:11:12.000
What?

1584
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:14.279
I'm only allowed to choose one show, the time being.

1585
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:16.079
Just humour me.

1586
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:17.100
For the time being.

1587
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:18.000
Oh okay.

1588
01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:19.739
I have a think about this.

1589
01:11:19.859 --> 01:11:22.020
No, I've got to choose one show and go with it.

1590
01:11:22.079 --> 01:11:22.979
Just choose one show.

1591
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:27.000
Well, I think we all know what I'm going to choose.

1592
01:11:28.140 --> 01:11:30.960
I'm going to choose Duke Space 9.

1593
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:33.300
Oh my god.

1594
01:11:33.960 --> 01:11:36.119
You finally did it.

1595
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:46.859
So because it's about half an hour to choose a series 5 Discovery

1596
01:11:46.859 --> 01:11:48.060
episode last week.

1597
01:11:48.119 --> 01:11:51.659
I implemented on the randomiser.

1598
01:11:51.720 --> 01:11:56.640
Now it only happens when you pick one series, okay?

1599
01:11:56.699 --> 01:11:57.479
Okay.

1600
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:02.340
And then it shows additional checkboxes so that you can check or

1601
01:12:02.340 --> 01:12:04.380
uncheck individual seasons.

1602
01:12:04.439 --> 01:12:08.760
Now, but what I've been asking for this. for years.

1603
01:12:09.539 --> 01:12:15.479
Now, beware, with great power comes great responsibility.

1604
01:12:15.539 --> 01:12:21.960
We have the opportunity to fuck ourselves up and turn this into an

1605
01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:25.199
enterprise series one podcast.

1606
01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:30.060
It means we won't be stuck.

1607
01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:32.100
We won't be stuck with enterprise here.

1608
01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:34.319
We'll choose it every now and again.

1609
01:12:34.380 --> 01:12:35.279
Yes, all right.

1610
01:12:35.340 --> 01:12:39.779
Okay, okay, so our random selection is becoming ever less random

1611
01:12:39.779 --> 01:12:41.100
as we go.

1612
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:47.100
But, but, I mean, do you know how many DS9 season 7 episodes we've

1613
01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:47.340
done?

1614
01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:48.840
I mean, it's getting out.

1615
01:12:48.899 --> 01:12:51.060
We haven't done anything from season 2.

1616
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:52.859
Okay, now.

1617
01:12:52.920 --> 01:12:54.359
So you know what I'm going to choose?

1618
01:12:54.420 --> 01:12:55.800
You can choose more than one.

1619
01:12:55.859 --> 01:12:58.020
Okay, so you don't have to just choose one season.

1620
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:01.800
You can choose any or all of them, or if you choose none of them

1621
01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:05.579
then it will untick the show and you'll have to select it again.

1622
01:13:05.699 --> 01:13:09.840
But you can have as many or as few as you want.

1623
01:13:10.260 --> 01:13:13.020
Oh, this is heaven.

1624
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:15.779
Oh my god, we never have to watch shit again.

1625
01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:18.119
This is a Star Trek podcast.

1626
01:13:18.180 --> 01:13:22.260
It's going to be the highlight of 2025 to date, you know, this

1627
01:13:22.260 --> 01:13:22.800
discovery.

1628
01:13:22.859 --> 01:13:25.619
Not the Discovery episode, this.

1629
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:29.880
Okay, no, I think I'll choose series 2, obviously, because we

1630
01:13:29.880 --> 01:13:32.760
haven't, we just haven't been there. and there's some good stuff

1631
01:13:32.760 --> 01:13:33.060
in it.

1632
01:13:33.119 --> 01:13:33.720
Excellent.

1633
01:13:33.779 --> 01:13:34.260
All right.

1634
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:34.979
Right?

1635
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:36.779
Oh, how wonderful.

1636
01:13:36.960 --> 01:13:39.300
Okey-dokey, here I go.

1637
01:13:39.420 --> 01:13:41.220
Oh, bro.

1638
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:42.239
What a choice.

1639
01:13:43.140 --> 01:13:45.479
No, I don't want to do this one.

1640
01:13:45.539 --> 01:13:46.079
What is it?

1641
01:13:46.560 --> 01:13:50.520
Your random Star Trek D slash 9 episode is Melora, season 2

1642
01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:51.600
episodes six.

1643
01:13:51.659 --> 01:13:54.420
Now it's our Daphne Ashbro from Doctor Who TV movie.

1644
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:55.380
Friend of the podcast.

1645
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:55.859
We do.

1646
01:13:56.939 --> 01:13:59.399
Not perhaps her finest moment in television.

1647
01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:03.659
Although it would give me the chance to talk about the wonderful

1648
01:14:03.659 --> 01:14:07.560
story in her autobiography where she says that William Shatner had

1649
01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:10.619
her fired from the set of a movie they were doing together.

1650
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:12.899
He just took one look at her and went, no.

1651
01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:14.279
I think I've heard that.

1652
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:14.880
And that was it.

1653
01:14:14.939 --> 01:14:18.180
She was gone. absolutely outrageous.

1654
01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:19.199
Okay, let's keep going.

1655
01:14:19.260 --> 01:14:20.279
Okay.

1656
01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:26.460
No, we can't go from one episode where 2 of the same person meet

1657
01:14:26.460 --> 01:14:27.600
to another episode.

1658
01:14:27.659 --> 01:14:29.520
It's the same person.

1659
01:14:29.579 --> 01:14:31.739
Star Trek, it's hard to do that actually.

1660
01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:32.699
What is it?

1661
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:36.239
I mean, it is your random Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season

1662
01:14:36.239 --> 01:14:40.140
two, episode 23 crossover.

1663
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:45.000
Which is the 1st... episode.

1664
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:45.539
Yeah.

1665
01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:49.140
Yeah, where Kira says to herself, I don't want your fear.

1666
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:50.460
I want your love.

1667
01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:52.199
If you can't love me.

1668
01:14:52.260 --> 01:14:53.039
Who can?

1669
01:14:53.579 --> 01:14:56.520
Nanal's having the best of that one.

1670
01:14:56.760 --> 01:14:59.220
Oh, do we want to do that?

1671
01:14:59.279 --> 01:15:03.239
We've never done a DS9 Mirror Universe episode, but I suspect

1672
01:15:03.239 --> 01:15:04.680
you've already pressed the button again.

1673
01:15:04.739 --> 01:15:06.060
I have.

1674
01:15:07.619 --> 01:15:10.319
I don't want to do this one either.

1675
01:15:10.380 --> 01:15:12.899
Okay, wherever's after this one we'll choose.

1676
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:14.640
Although it is Kai winning this game.

1677
01:15:14.699 --> 01:15:15.479
Okay, so what is it?

1678
01:15:15.539 --> 01:15:19.199
Um, your random Star Trek decent 9 episode is season two, episode

1679
01:15:19.199 --> 01:15:23.579
24, the collaborator, which is just after crossover.

1680
01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:24.779
Do you remember that one?

1681
01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:25.319
No.

1682
01:15:25.380 --> 01:15:26.520
Okay.

1683
01:15:26.579 --> 01:15:28.199
Oh, let's do this.

1684
01:15:28.260 --> 01:15:29.880
Oh my god, this is perfect.

1685
01:15:29.939 --> 01:15:30.539
This is perfect.

1686
01:15:30.779 --> 01:15:34.619
It's season two. episode one.

1687
01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:35.819
The homecoming.

1688
01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:38.159
You love a 2 episode one.

1689
01:15:38.220 --> 01:15:38.939
I do, actually.

1690
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.840
Now, because that's a three-part story, we only do the one part, we

1691
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:45.539
don't do, we do 2 parts of a two-part.

1692
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:47.520
Sorry, we only do one part of a three-part story.

1693
01:15:47.579 --> 01:15:49.920
It does work on its side, the homecoming.

1694
01:15:49.979 --> 01:15:52.199
Both of those are kind of, they escalate, don't they?

1695
01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:54.720
It's not quite a 3 parter.

1696
01:15:54.779 --> 01:15:59.579
It really is 3 very serialised episodes like what we would get in

1697
01:15:59.579 --> 01:16:01.979
Enterprise series 4.

1698
01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:06.479
I do remember, I remember the experience of watching the beginning

1699
01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:10.500
of series 2 of Deep Space 9 for the 1st time and just thinking how

1700
01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:13.560
amazingly, like the scale of it.

1701
01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:15.779
You know, we talk about the scale.

1702
01:16:15.779 --> 01:16:17.819
Just having a 3 par was a big deal.

1703
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:23.460
Yeah, but also just making Bajor a big thing and having things

1704
01:16:23.460 --> 01:16:28.020
change or threaten to change on Bajor, like having big political

1705
01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:28.859
things.

1706
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:31.920
It's kind of the 1st one of these on Deep Space 9 and that becomes

1707
01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:33.600
Deep Space 9's bread and butter.

1708
01:16:33.659 --> 01:16:36.300
We talked about it in best of both worlds, right?

1709
01:16:36.359 --> 01:16:40.439
The 1st time, like the status quo, the actual premise of a Star

1710
01:16:40.439 --> 01:16:41.460
Trek show changes.

1711
01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:47.760
I think you, like, pleasingly as well, I have just watched duet

1712
01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:50.880
and in the hands of the, which are the 2 episodes immediately

1713
01:16:50.880 --> 01:16:51.899
before this.

1714
01:16:53.039 --> 01:16:55.920
What happens in one, isn't it?

1715
01:16:55.979 --> 01:16:59.760
We've done dramatis personae, a truly dismal episode, and that's

1716
01:16:59.760 --> 01:17:01.619
the episode before duet.

1717
01:17:01.680 --> 01:17:02.220
Okay.

1718
01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:05.220
So it's almost like they have one last stab.

1719
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.920
Can we do these next generation knockoffs?

1720
01:17:07.979 --> 01:17:11.699
Oh, no, that didn't work at all. and then they do duet and then

1721
01:17:11.699 --> 01:17:13.560
they do it in the hands of the prophets and it's almost like they

1722
01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:14.340
go, oh, okay.

1723
01:17:14.399 --> 01:17:16.020
This is what we've got.

1724
01:17:16.140 --> 01:17:17.939
We can do this really, really well.

1725
01:17:18.060 --> 01:17:22.739
But I think because I watched those 2 episodes and they are

1726
01:17:22.739 --> 01:17:24.960
brilliant. don't get me wrong, both of them do it and in the hands

1727
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:25.619
of the profits.

1728
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:30.300
But there is still that kind of claustrophobic season one sense to

1729
01:17:30.300 --> 01:17:30.779
the 2 of them.

1730
01:17:30.899 --> 01:17:34.140
You watch 2 episode one.

1731
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:35.279
Everything's a bit brighter.

1732
01:17:35.340 --> 01:17:37.979
They've built the upper deck of the promenade.

1733
01:17:37.979 --> 01:17:38.340
Oh, wow.

1734
01:17:38.939 --> 01:17:43.140
It all just feels like it's lifted into in a really interesting

1735
01:17:43.140 --> 01:17:43.619
way.

1736
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.199
I think it's a great choice to talk about.

1737
01:17:46.260 --> 01:17:47.159
Okay, let's do that.

1738
01:17:47.220 --> 01:17:47.699
That's awesome.

1739
01:17:54.180 --> 01:17:58.079
We've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1740
01:17:58.079 --> 01:18:02.279
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project

1741
01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:04.680
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1742
01:18:04.680 --> 01:18:05.520
media accounts.

1743
01:18:05.579 --> 01:18:09.479
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1744
01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:11.159
composed by Cameron Lam.

1745
01:18:11.220 --> 01:18:15.300
This episode was recorded on the 24th of February 2026 and

1746
01:18:15.300 --> 01:18:17.279
released on the 27th of February.

1747
01:18:17.340 --> 01:18:21.180
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, for

1748
01:18:21.180 --> 01:18:21.840
Homecoming.

1749
01:18:39.899 --> 01:18:40.979
That's familiar.

1750
01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:42.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1751
01:18:42.539 --> 01:18:44.399
Sorry, I was such a drag.

1752
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:45.000
No, no, no.

1753
01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:46.260
Do you know what I mean?

1754
01:18:46.319 --> 01:18:48.899
Like, I think people like...

1755
01:18:48.960 --> 01:18:50.100
Yeah, I think people like that.

1756
01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:52.199
Like, I think that people absolutely like that.

1757
01:18:52.260 --> 01:18:55.380
And anyone listening to it is going to fall somewhere on the

1758
01:18:55.380 --> 01:18:57.659
spectrum of that. one side.

1759
01:18:57.779 --> 01:19:00.899
So they'll hear something, someone saying something that they like

1760
01:19:00.899 --> 01:19:04.020
about or, you know, that they agree with about the episode.

1761
01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:07.920
Oh, I didn't just say that's boring for an hour.

1762
01:19:07.979 --> 01:19:09.300
I don't know, you didn't.

1763
01:19:09.420 --> 01:19:09.840
No, no.

1764
01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:12.119
And a lot of the things that you say, you know what I mean?

1765
01:19:12.180 --> 01:19:17.880
Like the things about... about it being earnest and being stayed

1766
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:19.500
like it is...

1767
01:19:19.500 --> 01:19:21.840
I bet they're all energetic episodes just seem so awesome.

1768
01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:23.039
Oh, yeah.

1769
01:19:23.100 --> 01:19:26.760
And more fun and light, kind of capery, kind of, you know, there's

1770
01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:32.100
that moment, you know, hue, what's that thing where a trills

1771
01:19:32.100 --> 01:19:37.680
previous host goes into another person, like facets or whatever.

1772
01:19:37.739 --> 01:19:39.659
Oh, yeah.

1773
01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:41.340
Yeah, I can't remember.

1774
01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:41.939
I know.

1775
01:19:41.939 --> 01:19:46.199
So that happens in Culba, is Jin, Jinal.

1776
01:19:46.199 --> 01:19:47.699
And Culba is it.

1777
01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:51.899
And when the trill ends up in Culba's body and that he's much more

1778
01:19:51.899 --> 01:19:54.840
relaxed and he's kind of chill and stuff, and he looks down and

1779
01:19:54.840 --> 01:19:56.699
says, wow, this guy really works out.

1780
01:19:57.840 --> 01:20:00.119
Which I thought was fair to go.

1781
01:20:00.180 --> 01:20:02.100
But that's all sort of fun and light, and, you know, you've got

1782
01:20:02.100 --> 01:20:05.520
the, you've got mole, and, like, I think she's called mole, like a

1783
01:20:05.520 --> 01:20:06.359
gangster's mole.

1784
01:20:06.420 --> 01:20:09.300
You know, I think she's literally called it for that reason. quite

1785
01:20:09.300 --> 01:20:09.779
far now.

1786
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:11.279
Oh, what episode?

1787
01:20:11.340 --> 01:20:14.159
story with them and they have a good, you know, like they have a

1788
01:20:14.159 --> 01:20:16.920
big romance, which is really great and he, you know, we get

1789
01:20:16.920 --> 01:20:19.380
backstory and he betrays his people and stuff.

1790
01:20:19.439 --> 01:20:22.979
We get to see him turn green and liquid, which is kind of excited

1791
01:20:22.979 --> 01:20:27.060
society, and we see the interior of these vast spaces in the, in

1792
01:20:27.060 --> 01:20:29.460
the, um, green dreadnaught and stuff.

1793
01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:32.039
There's fun shit happening all the time.

1794
01:20:32.100 --> 01:20:37.979
I do remember watching a bit of the finale And thinking that was

1795
01:20:37.979 --> 01:20:39.420
pretty earnest as well, though.

1796
01:20:39.479 --> 01:20:41.039
Like it was kind of...

1797
01:20:41.100 --> 01:20:42.899
Well, they do that, they do the farewell.

1798
01:20:42.960 --> 01:20:43.619
Do you know what I mean?

1799
01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:46.439
And it's like half an hour at the end where we just get everyone

1800
01:20:46.439 --> 01:20:48.119
to be where they need to be.

1801
01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:51.720
And I think, doesn't she go on the ship and there's like she

1802
01:20:51.720 --> 01:20:53.039
remembers the crew?

1803
01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:56.279
She gets all these memories of what everyone's like and they, they

1804
01:20:56.279 --> 01:21:02.159
make sure they save up Oisha Kun and Detma and and Christopher and

1805
01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:04.920
you know, Bryce and Reese and stuff so that we can see them all.

1806
01:21:04.979 --> 01:21:06.720
So it is.

1807
01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:08.039
Every DS9, isn't it?

1808
01:21:08.100 --> 01:21:11.100
It's that same sort of feeling at the end of like, oh, man, this

1809
01:21:11.100 --> 01:21:12.479
crew aren't together anymore.

1810
01:21:12.539 --> 01:21:15.720
That sort of feeling of like, you know, yes, things move on.

1811
01:21:15.779 --> 01:21:17.399
But we had our time.

1812
01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:23.039
Until until Starfleet Academy, I think that Discovery is the show

1813
01:21:23.039 --> 01:21:26.880
that's most like Deep Space 9 of Kurtzman Trek.

1814
01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:34.079
Because it tells us it's more serialised in Deep Space 9, but Deep

1815
01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:36.239
Space 9 invents that in Star Trek.

1816
01:21:36.300 --> 01:21:38.819
And each season has quite a different character.

1817
01:21:38.880 --> 01:21:41.760
And it has people coming and going.

1818
01:21:41.819 --> 01:21:45.420
I mean, Deep Southside doesn't have the central, you know, 7

1819
01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:48.180
characters apart from the Judzia thing.

1820
01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:52.199
Um, you know, it's still the same people who are in the opening

1821
01:21:52.199 --> 01:21:55.800
credits all the way through, but discovery is even less like

1822
01:21:55.800 --> 01:21:56.159
that.

1823
01:21:56.220 --> 01:21:59.100
We've got characters coming and going all the way through.

1824
01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:00.420
Depending on where we fall on it.

1825
01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:02.520
It's a different crew every time.

1826
01:22:02.579 --> 01:22:03.840
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1827
01:22:03.960 --> 01:22:06.000
And like that's super interesting as well, I think.

1828
01:22:06.060 --> 01:22:10.439
You know, that's a little bit more interesting than, um, and a

1829
01:22:10.439 --> 01:22:13.500
little bit more intentional, I think, you know, because it has its

1830
01:22:13.500 --> 01:22:18.359
genesis as it's going to be an anthology show, you know, like it

1831
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:21.600
was only ever going to be one season long, that season one setup

1832
01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:24.119
was going to be the story, and then the following year we were

1833
01:22:24.119 --> 01:22:26.520
going to a completely different ship and all of that, you know.

1834
01:22:26.579 --> 01:22:28.619
Um, Yeah.

1835
01:22:28.680 --> 01:22:35.340
Did you hear what Kurtzman said about the Picard regulars?

1836
01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:36.180
No.

1837
01:22:36.359 --> 01:22:39.060
God, that made me even more annoyed.

1838
01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:42.060
Was that they didn't want to write them out.

1839
01:22:42.119 --> 01:22:45.479
They didn't want to write them out at the end of two.

1840
01:22:45.539 --> 01:22:52.500
They couldn't afford to get all of the TNG regulars and have, so

1841
01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:55.020
they decided to write them out and bring them back.

1842
01:22:55.079 --> 01:22:56.819
And I know you think that's a great call.

1843
01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:57.840
I fucking love that.

1844
01:22:57.960 --> 01:22:58.739
I love that cruise too.

1845
01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:00.239
I love that cruise so much.

1846
01:23:00.300 --> 01:23:01.680
I'm so sorry that we don't get them.

1847
01:23:01.739 --> 01:23:04.619
I think I would rather have taken that 3rd year with him.

1848
01:23:04.680 --> 01:23:08.760
I think it's because it's because they wanted to do 5 years with

1849
01:23:08.760 --> 01:23:10.260
Patrick and he said, I can't.

1850
01:23:10.380 --> 01:23:11.399
Oh, tired.

1851
01:23:11.460 --> 01:23:14.520
Yeah, he's really old and frail by the end of it.

1852
01:23:14.579 --> 01:23:18.779
But I am not sorry that we got that final.

1853
01:23:18.779 --> 01:23:19.500
No, I get it.

1854
01:23:19.560 --> 01:23:20.159
That's great.

1855
01:23:20.220 --> 01:23:21.359
Rios, man.

1856
01:23:21.420 --> 01:23:25.859
I know, he's so beautiful. overall, the next gen crew.

1857
01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:27.960
Yeah, where's Starfleet Star Trek Rios?

1858
01:23:28.020 --> 01:23:29.340
Maybe it's Star Trek.

1859
01:23:29.460 --> 01:23:33.119
Just pay him and have him pay all the different characters, right?

1860
01:23:33.180 --> 01:23:41.819
It's Star Trek Rios, and it's Rios in 2025 or 2026 with Teresa in

1861
01:23:41.819 --> 01:23:48.300
the and the kid, in the medical centre that gives medical

1862
01:23:48.300 --> 01:23:52.920
treatment to undocumented immigrants, and he keeps like, you know

1863
01:23:52.920 --> 01:23:57.720
shooting people from ice in the head and stuff, and that, I think

1864
01:23:57.720 --> 01:23:59.279
that'd be, that'd be a show I'd watch.

1865
01:23:59.340 --> 01:24:00.659
Oh, definitely.

1866
01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:01.920
If he's in it.

1867
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:03.119
Yeah, yeah, anything.

1868
01:24:03.180 --> 01:24:03.899
With his shirt off.

1869
01:24:03.960 --> 01:24:05.399
Whatever he's doing.

1870
01:24:05.399 --> 01:24:06.479
So he hasn't show.

1871
01:24:06.539 --> 01:24:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

1872
01:24:07.140 --> 01:24:07.979
Yeah, yeah.

1873
01:24:08.039 --> 01:24:10.680
I think they should have a whole episode where books naked, you

1874
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:13.500
know, and...

1875
01:24:13.500 --> 01:24:16.979
That thing, it's a great Star Trek tradition, isn't it?

1876
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:22.319
where 2 characters are in a weird science fiction situation where

1877
01:24:22.319 --> 01:24:25.859
they're thrown together and they kind of realise that they

1878
01:24:25.859 --> 01:24:28.859
actually should be together and then they get together in real

1879
01:24:28.859 --> 01:24:31.199
life at like parallels, isn't it?

1880
01:24:31.260 --> 01:24:36.659
Like parallels is how, um, the wharf Deanna relationship, which

1881
01:24:36.659 --> 01:24:40.439
whatever you think of it, like that starts because they've been

1882
01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:43.739
married in a parallel universe, like wharf turns up and they're

1883
01:24:43.739 --> 01:24:44.699
there together.

1884
01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:49.260
And then this, where book and her, like she sees book again as

1885
01:24:49.260 --> 01:24:54.359
they were back a year earlier and decides actually we need to be

1886
01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:57.539
doing this, that at the breakup that they had in episode 2 or

1887
01:24:57.539 --> 01:24:57.899
whatever.

1888
01:24:57.960 --> 01:25:02.100
Episode 2 is them riding motorbikes in this sort of strange desert

1889
01:25:02.100 --> 01:25:05.279
city and stuff and it's all hugely. what I'm used to.

1890
01:25:05.340 --> 01:25:06.359
Discovery?

1891
01:25:06.420 --> 01:25:09.300
Yeah, you would have got that if we'd just rolled, man.

1892
01:25:09.960 --> 01:25:11.460
All right.

1893
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:17.340
I mean, I love, I love the old, do you remember the episode where

1894
01:25:17.340 --> 01:25:24.119
Jake 1st tries to set up Cassidy and Ben, you go, oh, I've met

1895
01:25:24.119 --> 01:25:26.579
this freighter captain, you know, I think you'd really like her.

1896
01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:29.640
And Ben goes, no, I have no time for relationships right now.

1897
01:25:29.699 --> 01:25:30.420
I'm so sorry.

1898
01:25:30.479 --> 01:25:32.699
And then every, it's a B plot.

1899
01:25:32.760 --> 01:25:36.899
Every subsequent scene is like Odo going, oh, how's it going with

1900
01:25:36.899 --> 01:25:38.039
the freighter captain then?

1901
01:25:38.100 --> 01:25:40.739
How many people has Jake told about this woman?

1902
01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:45.239
And then at the end of the episode, he goes, fine. go and meet

1903
01:25:45.239 --> 01:25:45.539
her.

1904
01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:49.560
And of course, he sees us, Penny Johnson, Joe. absolutely beguiled

1905
01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:50.039
by her.

1906
01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:53.939
And she decides they're going on a date, not him.

1907
01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:54.539
Excellent.

1908
01:25:54.539 --> 01:25:56.340
Yeah, what is that?

1909
01:25:57.060 --> 01:26:01.199
Ah, it's what, oh, mid-season three.

1910
01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:05.279
God, fuck a duck.

1911
01:26:05.340 --> 01:26:07.800
I an explorer, because obviously they're on the ship in that one.

1912
01:26:07.859 --> 01:26:09.239
It's around that time.

1913
01:26:09.300 --> 01:26:11.640
It might be... family business.

1914
01:26:11.880 --> 01:26:15.060
It might be the subplot in family business.

1915
01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:19.380
I'm not sure Almost as much as I love the subplot.

1916
01:26:20.880 --> 01:26:24.060
You're afraid of commitment, Ben Cisco.

1917
01:26:24.119 --> 01:26:25.680
Who said anything about commitment?

1918
01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:29.279
Obviously not you.

1919
01:26:30.300 --> 01:26:32.939
And then she decides the relationship is over.

1920
01:26:33.420 --> 01:26:35.039
I love her.

1921
01:26:35.100 --> 01:26:38.579
I love a strong woman who just knows.

1922
01:26:38.579 --> 01:26:41.520
And then she's great.

1923
01:26:41.579 --> 01:26:45.239
Do you remember that when she was like, no, do you dare come over

1924
01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:47.220
there to change my schedules around?

1925
01:26:47.279 --> 01:26:48.359
Oh, that's great, isn't it?

1926
01:26:48.420 --> 01:26:51.359
That's really good Because we do see him manipulating her by being

1927
01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:53.460
the captain from time to time, don't we?

1928
01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:55.859
Like manipulating things so that they turn out.

1929
01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:58.979
Like, that's why she's there on the baseball when the baseball

1930
01:26:58.979 --> 01:27:00.239
game happens, isn't it?

1931
01:27:00.300 --> 01:27:02.760
Because he pulls some strings.

1932
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:07.859
Who knows why they made that decision?

1933
01:27:08.880 --> 01:27:10.319
All right.

1934
01:27:10.319 --> 01:27:13.319
Okay, let me get the random.

1935
01:27:13.319 --> 01:27:16.560
I have one stipulation that you have to follow.

1936
01:27:16.619 --> 01:27:17.460
Tell me.

1937
01:27:17.460 --> 01:27:17.880
Okay.

1938
01:27:17.939 --> 01:27:19.739
Oh my god, hang on.

1939
01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:22.020
Don't do it yet. dont do it yet.

1940
01:27:22.079 --> 01:27:25.079
Don't get that randomiser up, but I'm going to give you an

1941
01:27:25.079 --> 01:27:25.739
instruction.

1942
01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:27.060
Just get the randomiser up.

1943
01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:28.859
No, not to press anything yet, then.

1944
01:27:28.979 --> 01:27:30.180
Oh, God, wolf out.

1945
01:27:30.180 --> 01:27:30.479
Okay.

1946
01:27:30.539 --> 01:27:32.399
Is it going to come alive?

1947
01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:35.699
Oh, God.

1948
01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:40.500
Okay.

1949
01:27:40.619 --> 01:27:41.340
All right.

1950
01:27:41.399 --> 01:27:42.539
Just is it arm?

1951
01:27:42.600 --> 01:27:46.739
Oh, I, oh, wait, uh, yes, but oh, no, wait, no, that's Dimple's

1952
01:27:46.739 --> 01:27:47.279
Dew. hang on.

1953
01:27:47.340 --> 01:27:49.020
Randomiser.

1954
01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:50.279
Okay, I've just gone to the page.

1955
01:27:50.340 --> 01:27:50.819
Okay, all right.

1956
01:27:50.819 --> 01:27:51.779
I've got two.

1957
01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:52.739
Okay, don't do anything.

1958
01:27:52.800 --> 01:27:53.579
I'll give you instructions.

1959
01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:54.659
I'm touched at anything.

1960
01:27:54.720 --> 01:27:54.960
Okay.

1961
01:27:55.020 --> 01:27:57.479
No, wait instruction, right?

1962
01:27:58.920 --> 01:28:01.560
All right, it's the end of the episode.