WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:46:00

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are back aboard my first Star Trek series, Star Trek, the

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Next Generation, with a series 4 episode.

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It's series four, episode 13 Devil's Due, which has always been a

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bit of a favourite of mine.

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What did you think, Joe?

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I think that you've been a good influence on me over the years

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because I'm reliably informed that I wrote a review about this

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episode, many moons ago, where I was like, oh, this is absolutely

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ridiculous camp nonsense, you know, when wise Star Trek, the next

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generation.

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Not serious anymore.

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And now, after doing how many episodes with you, 180?

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I didn't say bloody hell.

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Bloody.

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We haven't wasted our life.

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Now I'm like, oh, this just isn't silly enough, man.

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Bring on the silly.

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My big issue with this is absolutely perfect original series

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episode and it's not an original series episode.

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It's our next generation episode where everyone's got to stick up

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their butt and not having enough fun.

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Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.

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So famously, this is like the child series 2, episode one of Star

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Trek, the Next Generation, an unused script that had been written

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for Star Trek phase 2 in the 70s.

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And in fact, one of the story credits goes to someone called

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William Douglas Lansford, who was nearly 70 when this episode came

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out.

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And so he must have been the person who wrote the treatment for

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Star Trek 2.

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And then, um, then the teleplay and the story treatment, the

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updated story treatment were by Philip Lasebnik, who has a story

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credit on Darmok, uh, which is, of course, one of the best Star

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Trek episodes, perhaps, in any series.

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This isn't one of the best Star Trek episodes in any series.

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But for me, it does that Star Trek, the next generation thing of

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being extremely high concept and memorable and having a real

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strong concept that you can explain just in a sentence and then

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just sort of does the procedural stuff.

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Perhaps it's a little bit too much that you described it before as

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average, and I think probably that's fair.

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But I do think it's lifted by a pretty great guest performance by

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Martin Dubois.

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She is having the best time in this, like, hands on hips, sort of

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wry smile on her face, clicking her fingers and making crazy stuff

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happening.

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I said to you, I just wish the other characters would meet her.

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And like I kept messaging you, saying, man, Shatner would have

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rocked this scene.

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So they're in Picard's quarters.

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If that was Kirk's quarters, he would have fucked her, right?

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Picard goes, I don't find this very amusing.

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You know, like, you know, you just want, and that's where the fun

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is, I think, is if they're playing off each other.

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Whereas I feel like she's playing and they're not.

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That's less fun to watch.

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Yeah, I think that probably everyone livens up a little bit in the

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final scene in the courtroom where Brent is having fun and finally

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Patrick is having some fun as well.

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But yeah, everyone is very stiff, I think.

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Even in that final scene, though, you take Brent out and you put

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Nemoy into that role, that would have been more fun as well.

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Actually, you know, when does TNG relax, because I thought they'd

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already relaxed, but clearly not.

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No.

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And I think probably it happens in fits and starts.

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When we were talking earlier, I compared this to the game, which

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happens a year later, less than a year later, is a similarly kind

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of comedic fun episode, but everyone is actually just sort of much

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more fun in it.

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And even though no one's sort of joking and there's no villain

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there's no, it's not sort of particularly cat, but everyone is

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being silly and going along with the bit.

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And I think it works really well.

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It's fun and everyone's kind of relaxed.

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Do you remember Nurse O'Gower and a turbo lift, having that?

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Yeah, awesome. you know, amazing.

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Wesley, you know, stuff.

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It was really good.

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Yeah, but here everyone is very, very stiff.

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And I think the worst bits are the bits where Picard is trying to

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use colloquial language to describe her job, you know, calling her

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a con man or a flimflam artist or whatever.

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It's a Star Trek Academy, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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It's amazing how stiff they are.

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And of course, by the time Kurtzman Trek comes along, Picard no

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longer talks like that.

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And by Picard series 3, the entire crew, the Enterprise.

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I mean, do you remember Riko?

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What is reintroducing?

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making pizzas in his garden?

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It's like, where's that?

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I think Patrick Stewart is the big problem here.

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And it's not like it's not a bad performance.

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I just don't quite think he gives what the script needs him to.

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And that is to have a bit of a knowing wink and to relax into the

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silliness of the idea.

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Um, I think he sort of sucks the fun out of the scenes.

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Yeah, that is a it's a shame.

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What do you think about Captain's Holiday?

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Because I think Captain's Holiday is a little bit like that.

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He's not great there either.

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He's, I think he, he wants to be this sort of, Patrick Stewart

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went on record to say, I will quit unless you let me direct and

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unless you let me fuck more.

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Well, have romances.

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Sorry. that's what he's saying.

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And yet when they give him those opportunities, he is so stiff.

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It is baffling because you compare them to the others. you know, um

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Janeway in brighter chaotica, you know, as queen of the spider

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people, she couldn't throw herself more into that role.

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She's like, I don't want to play chainway anymore.

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That's what she's thinking there.

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I mean, I think Captain's Holiday very much relies on the fact

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that Patrick is going to give that very stiff measured

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performance.

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And the contrast is him having all these wacky things happening to

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him.

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And remember, you know, Riker tricking him by giving him the hawk

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on to put in front of his beach chair and all of that.

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Like there is a very definite thing happening that that is a way

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of trying to get him in a situation which requires him to loosen

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up a bit.

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Here, here I think because it's so procedural.

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There is no loosening up.

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The one thing I do like about what he does here is that at no

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point is he threatened by Andra at no point is he in any doubt

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about what's happening.

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And so he isn't taken in by her.

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And I do like that.

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I think that is less fun than him rising to meet her.

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But I do think that it's an interesting choice.

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And I think there's just the one joke about his immortal soul, the

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one joke where he says my immortal soul might kind of depend on

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what you have to say to me now, Geordie.

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And I thought that that was a fun, if a bit of a pompous joke

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finally acknowledging that what if she really is the devil?

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Oh, when the devil turns up?

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Oh, look at there.

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Jesus.

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He's in our body stalking for fuck's sake. so weird.

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I can't believe they did that long shot.

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I mean, I would have just cut to the makeup.

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And that Klingon god.

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I mean, wonderful. that's great think that's awesome.

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That's really good. all over the place, isn't it?

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Yeah, wonderful.

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The bit where I really realised this was supposed to be like an

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earlier iteration of Star Trek was, how quick the ending is, is

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she could sort of go, oh, I've been arrested and just walks off

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and then they go.

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Whereas normally on Next Generation, we have a scene back on the

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ship, don't we, telling us what it was all about, and it doesn't

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even... just ends.

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That does sometimes happen on the Star Trek, the Next Generation.

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Sometimes you think the endings are a little bit just kind of a

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little bit too quick.

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I think everyone leaves the court, like leaves the set and leaves

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the court behind there and I think that's probably a reference to

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like Perry Mason or something like that.

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Like a, you know, like a classic era courtroom drama where the set

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gets vacated and all we have is the courtroom at the end.

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I quite like the end of this episode, I think.

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You know what it feels like to me.

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Actually, I said TOS.

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It feels more like it should be a T-AS episode.

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It's sort of 25 minutes.

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I mean, it would be dismal.

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Don't get me wrong.

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The animation would be terrible because we have some lovely match

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shots in this.

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We'll get there.

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Um, because, you know, didn't we have a story with a god that was

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posting the devil?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, the definitely was a good guy.

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I think you look better in the TAS episode if I want this.

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No, he was...

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so I didn't not have fun with this, but I just kept seeing

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another version of this that would have just been hilarious.

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And I think even Michael Piller says, I think that that original

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Philip, uh, Lebeznik.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Thank you very much.

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Script was a lot funnier.

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And I think it probably just dived into the premise more

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wholeheartedly than this.

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It's the procedural elements of DNG that's holding it. like the

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chains holding it back.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think that's probably fair But I think we'll still laugh, though

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because I mean, I'll do some great quoting because she has some

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lovely lines.

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She's wonderful.

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I mean, oh, if you ever want to see Marina Service coming on to

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Patrick Stewart as well?

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opposite.

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David, she doesn't loosen up.

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Well, I mean, of course she knows, just like Patrick, I'm just

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going to get this over and done with really quick.

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So I also want to shout out to Tom Benco, who directs this.

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He also directed transfigurations and he has a story credit on the

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House of Quark and returned to Grace, but he worked as editor on

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100 episodes of Star Trek, including Encounter at Farpoint and

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Endgame.

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So he's...

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Yeah, yeah.

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So he directed this.

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It's his only one of 2 episodes that he directs, but he has a

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really, really long association with the program and has done

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heaps and heaps of work on bringing it to the screen

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transfiguration is being quite creepy.

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Isn't that the one where La Forge turns in sort of that weird

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creature covered in all the sort of, no?

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No, I think it's, isn't it a late season 31 with the alien who

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turns into a glowy person and then disappears?

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That could be any episode of the next generation.

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That is encounter-part.

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Well, are you saying that we've got Tom Benco to blame for the

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generally dismal pace of 90s trek if he's in these things?

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You remember those action scenes and best of both worlds.

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Yeah, shoot, explosion, shoot.

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Probably.

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Let me guess, Tom Benko is not editing Kurtzman trick.

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Probably not, no.

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Well, I have to say, I didn't think this was badly direct.

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I mean, it was the usual sort of Yeah, yeah, yeah. direction.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But I thought there was some nice lighting in the episode.

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I certainly think some of the effects work is quite good for the

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time.

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So I don't, you know, some of their makeup, well, let's talk about

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it, shall we?

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Yeah.

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All right.

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I think we should go in So okay.

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We'll still have fun.

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Oh, I definitely will.

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All right.

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I will count it in.

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Five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

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So it's our usual exterior establishing shot.

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I did wonder, you know, Nathan.

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If this actually was the episode with Audra, because it took us so

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long to turn up.

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Yeah, yeah.

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00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:46.919
So what's going on here?

251
00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:48.899
I have no idea.

252
00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:54.419
So suddenly we're doing a play version of a Christmas carol, which

253
00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:57.360
is fine, and we have a ghost and is the ghost real?

254
00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:00.240
The big question is, can we believe our senses?

255
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:05.340
And so thematically it does work with the rest of the episode

256
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:06.000
isn't it?

257
00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:12.720
Because the thing is that the people of Ventax 2 and fuck, that's

258
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.940
a great Star Trek Planet Name?

259
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:20.039
As soon as I heard it, I was like, the neighbouring of Aridian

260
00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:20.460
free.

261
00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.299
Yeah, the Ventaxians of Ventex, too.

262
00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.519
It's a new mopper lower tax name.

263
00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:29.759
They've got a V and an X. Exactly.

264
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:36.720
So it is that they believe that it's Andra because she fulfils the

265
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.220
prophecies and, you know, Scrooge here knows that your senses

266
00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:43.799
can't be relied on, that they can be tricked.

267
00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.019
And so that's true.

268
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.000
I was talking about the acting style.

269
00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:49.379
What's that about?

270
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.679
I just think that we're having fun getting actors to talk about an

271
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.559
acting style and to have control.

272
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:57.720
Because God's so dense about it all, isn't he?

273
00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:00.240
Whereas Stuart, obviously, is their master.

274
00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:05.519
Well, I mean, because he talks about the method, like data talks

275
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:06.720
about the method, right?

276
00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:13.259
And the method is, you know, like Picard calls it old-fashioned

277
00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:13.799
doesn't he?

278
00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.440
Like he calls the method old-fashioned, and certainly the method's

279
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.019
old-fashioned, but the method is, you know, there's an American

280
00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:22.980
way of acting for TV, and there's an English way of acting for TV

281
00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:26.519
in the English way, is conveying information to the audience

282
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.820
whereas the American way is trying to convey the reality of the

283
00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:30.360
emotion.

284
00:14:30.419 --> 00:14:36.840
And so Picard, who was doing British TV for the BBC in the 1970s

285
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:41.580
was not using the method, he was using a much older version of, you

286
00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:43.379
know, a much older type of acting.

287
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.200
And so to have him talk about the method here and say how old

288
00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:48.059
fashion duties is kind of cool, I think.

289
00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:52.679
I wonder, you know, if the English technique has sort of lasted

290
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.220
though, rather than, you know, this made for TV, American acting

291
00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:59.220
that we are forced to watch on a regular occasion.

292
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:02.100
I mean this doesn't really exist now, does it?

293
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:06.360
No, and I think it, you know, when we watched when we were

294
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.379
watching the 1st episode, when we were watching Holly Hunter, um

295
00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:14.519
in Starfleet Academy, I think that she does a really good job of

296
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.879
conveying the emotions to the audience, and I don't know whether

297
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.700
that's because she's very good at feeling the reality of it, but I

298
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:23.100
think there is a sense where she understands that it's

299
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:25.139
communicative that her job is.

300
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.139
She conveyed that she was very relaxed in that chair, didn't she?

301
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.899
No, but I was thinking, oh, here we go.

302
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:32.100
Job sleep, Nathan.

303
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.600
You'll be absolutely delighted.

304
00:15:33.659 --> 00:15:38.460
Sorry, this is Paul Lambert playing the cheap scientist.

305
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.580
He's wearing a jumpsuit, which is exactly the sort of thing that

306
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:43.500
Mariners hated.

307
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:47.460
He is in when the power breaks.

308
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.279
He's one of the old Aldean.

309
00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:53.940
Oh, it gives her the musical instrument, doesn't it?

310
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:54.779
yeah.

311
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:55.799
Yeah, yeah.

312
00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:58.139
And she says I don't want to play the instrument anymore.

313
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.059
And he gets a bit stroppy about it.

314
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.000
That's where I know him from, because that's one of the few videos

315
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.200
I had when I was younger.

316
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:07.980
I also watched when the bowel breaks on home soil all the time

317
00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:08.879
over and over again.

318
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:09.840
Oh my god.

319
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:11.639
Oh my god.

320
00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:14.580
The devil was coming back to Ventax free.

321
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.259
And so that's a brilliant high concept thing, isn't it?

322
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:21.779
It's the planet that sold its soul to the devil and now the devil

323
00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:23.340
returns and wants it back.

324
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.100
And it's, it could be an alien.

325
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.899
You know, we know Star Trek.

326
00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:33.480
There's Q and they mention Q. So it could be an alien, absolutely.

327
00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:36.960
And certainly her, you know, her style of acting and stuff

328
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:38.879
suggests Q, I think.

329
00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:43.740
And so making sure that Picard is very, very certain that she's a

330
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:47.639
confidence streakster earlier on, I think, is important, don't

331
00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:47.820
you?

332
00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:53.399
I love, I love Picard saying earlier, you know, I think I vaguely

333
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.019
heard about method acting, you know.

334
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.840
Well, you should have deployed some of that in the finale of this

335
00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:58.080
all right?

336
00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:05.640
I mean, what I got from that pre-title sequence was this is going

337
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:06.599
to be kind of relaxed.

338
00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:07.140
Okay?

339
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:08.220
Yeah, yeah.

340
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:10.619
But it's something about fear, isn't it?

341
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.539
And it's something about whether you can trust your senses.

342
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:14.039
Like those seem to be the 2 things.

343
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:14.400
Yeah.

344
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.640
He says that Brent's giving us superb performances.

345
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.099
I wasn't really seeing it.

346
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.259
No, very silly voice.

347
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.059
Yeah, that's right.

348
00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:27.539
Brent passes for Brent's English accent there.

349
00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:30.599
We do, I think we do.

350
00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:34.859
Is it about 10 minutes of procedural before Audra actually shows

351
00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:36.059
up in this episode?

352
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.640
I can't remember, actually.

353
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.880
I don't remember being bored, but this is the kind of Star Trek

354
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:43.200
shit that I just lap up.

355
00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:44.099
Do you know what I mean?

356
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.839
Because you're mad.

357
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:49.559
But because that was what I was here for, do you know what I

358
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:49.740
mean?

359
00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:52.500
Is the procedural, we turn up, there's a space problem and we

360
00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:52.980
solve it.

361
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.519
These is a more fun space problem than normal, I think.

362
00:17:56.579 --> 00:17:59.460
And initially it doesn't look like it's going to be that, and then

363
00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:00.599
Marta turns up.

364
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:05.160
And she's superb. points for the episode title.

365
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:06.480
Devil's Jew.

366
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.240
It's like, wow, yeah, it's really good, isn't it?

367
00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:11.880
Oh, even her real name is Camp.

368
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:13.259
Marta Dubois.

369
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:14.700
Yeah, it is wonderful.

370
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:15.779
She's just terrific.

371
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.619
So she had a semi-regular roller recurring role on Magnum PI

372
00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:19.980
apparently.

373
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.019
Oh, we've got Howard Bag.

374
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.420
So this is the sort of thing we just do all the time, isn't it?

375
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.420
Oh my god, there's something terrible happening on that planet.

376
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.720
What surprised me was what we cut to the exterior.

377
00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:35.460
I was like, fucking hell, that's a good shot.

378
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.880
Remember who watches the watch and starts in a fairly similar way

379
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.579
as does Star Trek interaction much later?

380
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.339
I think it might be the same jumpsuits, Nathan.

381
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:47.099
This a jumpsuit.

382
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:49.440
That buff man next day, yeah.

383
00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:49.980
Did you see him?

384
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:55.319
We do, guys. some handsome people in the on the bridge this week.

385
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.240
Oh, sorry, sorry.

386
00:18:57.299 --> 00:18:59.640
Audra, she becomes...

387
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:00.900
She turns into that.

388
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.500
Good looking guy.

389
00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:01.920
Yeah, yeah.

390
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:06.359
I love how we can only beam up one of the scientists because

391
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:11.579
that's all we're paying to speak this episode. everyone else all

392
00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:13.559
runs around flailing their hands about it.

393
00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:14.519
Yeah, yeah.

394
00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:17.220
We basically have kind of 3 guest stars.

395
00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:22.319
I do feel sorry for this man, though, because basically after he's

396
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.599
delivered the expedition of what this is all about.

397
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:30.119
He's just a bystander in every single scene, but he's always there

398
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.099
but just standing there saying nothing.

399
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:35.220
Well, thank God he doesn't get made up to do that.

400
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.160
I mean, you know, like he didn't have to sit for 3 hours in the

401
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:38.819
makeup chair.

402
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.019
It's actually funny too.

403
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:41.579
The Ventaxians are human.

404
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.299
There's no indication Michael Westmore hasn't been let loose on

405
00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:45.480
them.

406
00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:50.460
Only, only Ardra gets the kind of prosthetics.

407
00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:54.539
And everyone's, you know, how the chase revealed to us how the

408
00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:57.180
humanoids spread across the galaxy.

409
00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:59.519
And were all played by American actors.

410
00:19:59.579 --> 00:20:00.960
Of course, they wrote that episode.

411
00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:03.660
Otherwise, we would have been asking those questions for this very

412
00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:04.019
day.

413
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:08.220
God, every time I see the Fentaxians written on the screen.

414
00:20:09.299 --> 00:20:10.920
So great.

415
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:12.180
It's so great.

416
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:16.259
This is absolutely what Lower Decks is making fun of this episode

417
00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:16.799
I think.

418
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:21.900
I know you shouldn't manufacture running jokes on podcasts, but

419
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:24.119
can we have the Ventaxian scale now, please?

420
00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:28.440
So when we get new alien dances, we'll decide where they are, one

421
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:29.519
to 10 on the vent.

422
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.660
Because it has got a V and a X. is number 10, I think.

423
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:34.380
Do you know what I mean?

424
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.660
He's putting a lot of weight.

425
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:37.319
It's great name.

426
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.140
Viridian's only got a V and an R, you know?

427
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's true.

428
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:45.240
The Fantaxi leader.

429
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:48.779
His name is Accost Gerrard.

430
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:54.839
So he's played by Marcelo Tubert, and he is, he has it featured

431
00:20:54.839 --> 00:21:00.240
already on Untitled Star Trek Project because he is in the season

432
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.240
2 Picard episode Assimilation.

433
00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:08.519
And he's the old man in the wheelchair, because of course it's

434
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:14.940
many decades later, and it's in Teresa's medical practice when ice

435
00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:19.500
come in and raid the medical practice, and he has a couple of, he

436
00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:23.819
has an interaction in Spanish with Rios, where he tells Rios he

437
00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.460
should leave, and Rios says he's not going to.

438
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:33.240
And so he gets to appear in Star Trek again in much smaller part

439
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:34.799
but obviously a much better one.

440
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:38.160
I think he's got love his outfit too.

441
00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:41.519
You're talking about something very thoughtful and I'm going to

442
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.559
take us to somewhere very irreverent.

443
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:45.180
What the fuck are they all wearing?

444
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:46.680
I love his outfit.

445
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.839
He's got half blue leopard print.

446
00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:52.380
The guy behind's wearing a curtain and this poor fellow who's on

447
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:52.799
the bridge.

448
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:58.019
He's got like quilted inserts in his gray jumpsuit.

449
00:21:58.019 --> 00:21:59.339
Where is Pfizer?

450
00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:02.279
He's so bad.

451
00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:05.279
He's got like a quilted pad on his arse.

452
00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:06.299
What is going on?

453
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:08.039
Yeah, it's really bad, isn't it?

454
00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:09.599
They're so unflattering.

455
00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:10.980
They're so cheap looking.

456
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:12.660
Like, they're really terrible.

457
00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:14.099
Have you got on the gap is available?

458
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.019
No?

459
00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:17.940
Oh, no, it's all...

460
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.339
This scene is very important, all right?

461
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.460
Because everyone is so serious and to say, now, watch Gates

462
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:24.299
McFadden.

463
00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.900
She only gets one line and a reaction shot and she's the only one

464
00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:29.160
that's winking at the audience.

465
00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:30.539
There's a big smile on her face.

466
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:31.619
Oh no, not yet.

467
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:33.839
And she'll lose quite seriously. very serious.

468
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.619
That's the other thing that I really like, too, is that everything

469
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:40.200
has to be played on the Fentaxians term.

470
00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:43.200
So Ventaxian law still applies.

471
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.339
The contract is valid as long as it's valid in Ventaxian law and

472
00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:47.819
so on.

473
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:48.720
And I think that's really good.

474
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:54.359
Is there more TNG dialogue than, you know, in Vantaxian terms?

475
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.640
Bad luck, you know?

476
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:02.220
We certainly don't talk like that anymore, Star Trek.

477
00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:02.940
We don't.

478
00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:06.059
Come on, where's Gates?

479
00:23:06.180 --> 00:23:08.099
Look, Picard, fairy dower.

480
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.099
Yeah, yeah, very serious situation here.

481
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:13.200
Well, actually, Levon, it was quite relaxed.

482
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:15.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty chill.

483
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:16.680
Oh, oh, maybe it's later.

484
00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:18.299
Oh, look at my feet.

485
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:19.440
Now this shot is great.

486
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:23.160
We said when we did best of both worlds, that they'd learned to

487
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:23.940
composite.

488
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:26.220
So, uh, they'd learn to composite.

489
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:27.420
So we have people running.

490
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:28.920
We have real live action things.

491
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:32.160
It's not enterprise style, little cartoon people.

492
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:37.019
We have a match shot, you know, a glass shot, and we have moving

493
00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:38.519
smoke, and I think it looks incredible.

494
00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:42.480
I mean, that was so, did you see them when they beamed in, right?

495
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:45.660
So there's a crane, because so it's coming down, but the way

496
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:46.799
everyone's positioned.

497
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.660
It's so theatrical.

498
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.119
What's positioned around the space.

499
00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:54.299
It's been absolutely perfectly blocked that short.

500
00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:58.319
We want to see everyone's face when they beam in.

501
00:23:58.380 --> 00:23:59.039
Okay, right.

502
00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:00.660
You stand there. you stand there.

503
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.559
Let's fill the set.

504
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:03.240
That's Tom Banko.

505
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:04.259
He knows what he's doing.

506
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.180
He's watched a lot of this shit.

507
00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:10.140
You know, I'm not sure.

508
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.119
I'm not going to go on about the costumes too.

509
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:13.680
Oh, who cares about the costumes?

510
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:14.759
Here's Ardra.

511
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:16.259
Arj's costume.

512
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.059
Oh, boy.

513
00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:22.740
I just think she has the most stunningly beautiful smile and she

514
00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:26.519
is the one person here who is having an incredible amount of fun.

515
00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:28.559
So that is 10 minutes in.

516
00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:30.539
That's 10 minutes in before she's gone.

517
00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:34.799
Have you noticed, she's got crystal baubles off of hanging off her

518
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:35.519
strands of hair.

519
00:24:35.579 --> 00:24:37.680
Yeah, yeah, she looks fantastic.

520
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:40.380
No, I think those are earrings that look like her...

521
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:41.039
No, I don't know.

522
00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:43.200
That goes through that line, so they send.

523
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:43.920
What's that?

524
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.779
I am Jarrad of Gen Tech 10.

525
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:46.740
Oh boy.

526
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:51.779
Oh my god.

527
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:54.599
She's wonderful.

528
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:55.920
She is so great.

529
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.000
So good.

530
00:24:57.059 --> 00:24:59.759
Just super, super, super, super.

531
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:01.920
I bore easily.

532
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:03.960
Stop cowering.

533
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.960
I want you on your knees no one's cowering.

534
00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:07.500
What?

535
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:09.539
It's actually cowering, Audra.

536
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.839
No, that woman Beyond's barely bowing her head, look.

537
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:17.099
She's so impressed with Picard, though, because he stands right up

538
00:25:17.099 --> 00:25:17.759
to her.

539
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:18.599
That's exactly right.

540
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.680
I mean, she really wants to seduce him.

541
00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:25.559
I can't think why couldn't be more boring in this episode.

542
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.059
Yeah.

543
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:29.099
He's in his pyjamas a bit later.

544
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:35.279
She, again, it's all that sort of cue stuff, but they use him sort

545
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.880
of, yeah, special effects that do kind of read like a

546
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.900
transporter.

547
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.500
And like, it is possible that she's cute.

548
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.500
She does say that thing where she says, you've travelled the

549
00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:46.980
universe.

550
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.680
Don't you think there's a place for someone like me in it?

551
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:51.420
And there is.

552
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:52.140
Do you know what I mean?

553
00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:55.680
It is possible, but he's, you know, not convinced.

554
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:58.380
And I think, I think it might be that line about economic forecast

555
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:02.099
where she's already asked for economic forecast that, that gives

556
00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:02.940
the game away.

557
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.619
Poor Troy.

558
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.200
She is only in this scene to deliver information.

559
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:10.980
That was it. you know, they fear that you're coming back to

560
00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:11.700
enslave them.

561
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.460
Is that why you beam down just for that line?

562
00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:17.700
Oh, here we go.

563
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.319
She's about to turn very Q like now into various alien.

564
00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:23.099
Jesus.

565
00:26:23.099 --> 00:26:24.299
I love dream going.

566
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.720
But look at, like, it's this muscle guy.

567
00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:29.279
Just look look at the guy.

568
00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:30.720
Look at his huge arms.

569
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:31.619
That's not makeup.

570
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:33.299
He's not in his latex suit.

571
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.640
Looks like a giant...

572
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:36.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

573
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.779
His mouth looks like a prolapsed asshole, right?

574
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.640
It's really rough.

575
00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:43.559
But he's massive.

576
00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:45.359
Like they've got some massive guy.

577
00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:48.539
I don't know why they don't just paint the same guy red rather

578
00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:51.059
than put some weird looking guy in the...

579
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:51.660
Yeah, anyway.

580
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:52.319
What?

581
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.099
to see that.

582
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:54.900
Patrick Stewart looks so bald.

583
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.400
Yeah, yeah.

584
00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:59.940
Come on, that Shatner would be sort of winking at her going.

585
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:00.660
Oh, really?

586
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.819
You want to get up close and personal to me.

587
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:03.240
Do you?

588
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.140
Yes, he is.

589
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:09.839
Stewart doesn't think he's sexy, whereas I think William Shatner

590
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:10.920
knows he's sexy, yeah?

591
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:11.339
Yeah.

592
00:27:11.339 --> 00:27:11.940
Yeah.

593
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.200
And Stuart is sexy.

594
00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:16.140
I think Stuart can be sexy, but he's not being Uber.

595
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.480
Starship mine, you know, when he starts stripping it.

596
00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:19.920
Hell.

597
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:20.819
Remember 1st contact?

598
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:21.839
Mossex.

599
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:23.220
Yep, yep. absolutely.

600
00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:25.440
Oh, here we go now.

601
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:25.920
What's happening?

602
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:26.700
We're looking at the contract.

603
00:27:26.819 --> 00:27:29.279
We're looking at the contract Now we're talking about scrolls, but

604
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.740
we've only made 2 of them, and so we've got some books from

605
00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:33.420
somewhere in the...

606
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:37.140
But we've only been able to afford to get 2 scrolls happening.

607
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.900
And then... very simple arrangement.

608
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.640
You've got 2 entire volumes there.

609
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:49.559
Poor Troy, look, she is just in the background.

610
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:50.579
She's got nothing to do.

611
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:52.079
Neither is Michael.

612
00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:53.640
Like Michael's just standing there too.

613
00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:56.400
Yeah, God, I'll burn it.

614
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:58.799
I mean, this is very TNG though, right?

615
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.299
So we've got a contract with the devil, yeah.

616
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:02.700
So instead of like looking into the fun part of that.

617
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.119
No, we'll actually look at the contract.

618
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:06.599
Yeah.

619
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:12.539
But again, because he, he, you know, she's exploiting the legal

620
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:14.400
system here in order to make this happen.

621
00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:19.619
And so Picard absolutely doesn't for a second, you know, concede

622
00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:22.259
that she might be the devil at all and never thinks that she is

623
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:25.920
for even one moment, except for one gag a little bit later on.

624
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:28.859
I do love the I do have that effect on people.

625
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.019
Like everyone's running around.

626
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.779
I just feel like everyone gets stiffed on on except her.

627
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.799
He just went, panic gripped the people at the news of your

628
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:38.220
return.

629
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.759
Yeah, and then she just goes, I do have that effect on people.

630
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.640
She's one.

631
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:49.380
I looked at some photographs of how I sort of Googled Martha

632
00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:50.099
Dubois.

633
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.319
Man, she's aged beautifully.

634
00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:54.599
Yeah, she's not with us actually.

635
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:59.460
She died in 2018. beautifully sort of blonde cropped hair when she

636
00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:01.980
was older, as beautiful as she is here.

637
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:05.460
So she's she's Panamanian, Panamanian, American.

638
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:07.140
So that was...

639
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.700
That line should be fun.

640
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.279
I refuse to abandon this planet to that woman.

641
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:12.420
That woman.

642
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:14.279
I think he didn't leave us there quite well.

643
00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:15.900
I think I think that's quite good.

644
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:17.099
He's a bit pissed off.

645
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:20.940
And like that's actually not a bad way for Picard to be playing it

646
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:24.059
but just it just isn't quite fun enough.

647
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:25.740
And it is funny, isn't it?

648
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.059
But this is series four.

649
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:28.920
This is the imperial phase.

650
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.500
This is perhaps not...

651
00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:33.599
Well, this is not as strong an episode.

652
00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:35.759
I think, as some of them.

653
00:29:35.819 --> 00:29:36.539
Do you know what I mean?

654
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.819
Like some really memorable series 4 episodes.

655
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.680
This is a fairly standard one.

656
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:44.700
But I think it's agreeable and has a great guest performance, but

657
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:47.400
everyone is really, really stiff.

658
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:52.500
We're in the same recording block now as the previous information

659
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:53.579
gathering scene.

660
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:55.980
But this is the one where Watchgates now, okay?

661
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:58.140
That comes to her at some point.

662
00:29:58.140 --> 00:30:02.579
She's got this sort of very knowing smile on her face.

663
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.500
There we go.

664
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.900
Hmm.

665
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:08.160
Yeah, that's it.

666
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.539
Well, she should be like, this is fun.

667
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:13.980
She doesn't pose a threat.

668
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.359
Like Vardra.

669
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:15.839
Vardra.

670
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:17.519
Adra does pose a threat in a sense.

671
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:19.980
I mean, Deanna says that people will be killing themselves.

672
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:21.539
There's riots and all of that sort of thing.

673
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.079
So she does pose a threat in a way, but it's funny how kind of low

674
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:25.980
rent this is.

675
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.339
And this is before, you know, the Ferengi episode of Voyager in

676
00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:34.019
series one or live fast and prosper in Voyager later, or the

677
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:36.119
characters in Deep Shace 9 who are dodgy.

678
00:30:36.180 --> 00:30:36.720
Do you know what I mean?

679
00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:39.599
We haven't had a lot of that sort of stuff in Deep Space 9.

680
00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:41.759
The thread isn't in TNG.

681
00:30:41.819 --> 00:30:45.119
The thread is normally much more high scale than these.

682
00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:47.099
And so and look.

683
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.660
Everywhere it's farm.

684
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.000
I mean, we're literally doing queue, right?

685
00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:52.319
She's invaded the bridge.

686
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:53.819
She takes over other people.

687
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.180
Your chair offers a great few of them.

688
00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:59.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

689
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.740
And watch Stuart in this scene.

690
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:03.960
This is where he's at.

691
00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:05.640
Look at her, though.

692
00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:09.660
Yeah, he's not amused.

693
00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:14.099
Look him.

694
00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:17.940
Look how stiffy he is. standing there like I'm bored.

695
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.339
Oh, well done, Michael.

696
00:31:20.339 --> 00:31:21.240
I was very convincing.

697
00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:22.380
Yeah, yeah, well done.

698
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.619
Oh, look, Troy's braced for something.

699
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.079
I don't know what she's doing there, Beyond the security console.

700
00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:32.519
Oh, look, she's brought up Bless them, too.

701
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:36.720
Look at her. fantastic No, he's not giving her an inch, is he?

702
00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:37.859
Stroking his hand.

703
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:41.640
Oh, she was stroking my head.

704
00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:45.900
That's very...

705
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:46.799
This is so funny.

706
00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:49.980
Because the other thing is every time he's super confident that

707
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.759
she is just a confident streakstar, then he walks onto the bridge

708
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:54.660
and there she is.

709
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:57.420
And then he gets rid of her by transporting her off the thing and

710
00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:03.000
she turns up already and replaces Ensign, handsome Asian guy, who

711
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.799
is about to appear any 2nd now.

712
00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:08.579
Do you think this would be more relaxed on any of the other trek

713
00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:08.940
shows?

714
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:10.799
I think the 90s ones.

715
00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.619
I think it would have been more relaxed a year later.

716
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:17.339
You know, like, I genuinely think it would have been more relaxed

717
00:32:17.339 --> 00:32:22.019
later here, that, that, because what Pillar did, like, Pillar

718
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:24.119
really likes the treatment.

719
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:30.180
Um, uh, that Philip Losebnik does, but he can't get, like it gets

720
00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:31.619
all of the comedy gets removed.

721
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:33.420
They told it's too funny, it's too silly.

722
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:36.180
Yeah, he says people objected, didn't they?

723
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.140
to that original script.

724
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:41.519
And he kept trying to put in more and more and more in, and I

725
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.819
think that the show was much more confident about being silly.

726
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.940
And remember they'd had Menage Troy and they'd had terrible comedy

727
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:49.079
episodes as well.

728
00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:51.960
So they were right, I think, to kind of be wary of.

729
00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:53.940
Yeah, yeah.

730
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.200
Well, that's a nothing episode.

731
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:55.920
Was that comedy?

732
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:57.059
No not really.

733
00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:00.059
Whereas this has such a strong guess before which.

734
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.500
She is so much fun.

735
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:02.460
She's so great.

736
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.400
I mean, date is good because he comes in and says, well, the

737
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.299
contract actually can be interpreted that way and technically she

738
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:11.940
could own the entire enterprise right now.

739
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.180
Well, even that moment where the answer appears back in his chair

740
00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.220
and just looks kind of startled.

741
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.019
That's perfect. you know what I mean?

742
00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:20.819
That's exactly how it should be played.

743
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.880
It's wonderful Straight away.

744
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:27.779
The captain's log, although I consider that woman's claims upon my

745
00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:28.920
ship to be absurd.

746
00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:29.940
Yes.

747
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.299
Well, again, the captain's slug is just for those of you who have

748
00:33:33.299 --> 00:33:37.079
been brain dead or in another room. for the last scene.

749
00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:38.700
Here's what, here's what happens.

750
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.980
I think we just did have an ad break, right?

751
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.799
I mean, the American, that was it, yeah, attention span is quite

752
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:44.220
sure.

753
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.160
It's not really not that shorter than ours.

754
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.039
Again, he's Pecan's being weird in this scene.

755
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:56.039
He's a little bit more animated, a little bit more excited because

756
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.579
he actually kind of seems John Raleigh's a con game.

757
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:00.839
But he can't talk normally.

758
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:01.980
Do you know what I mean?

759
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.559
Like, he can't talk about confidence tricksters without kind of

760
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.000
being weird about it.

761
00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:09.960
He dated the same to use the vernacular. artist.

762
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:11.940
Don't you have a word?

763
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.460
You do have them in the 24th century.

764
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.619
Why don't you just have a normal word for them?

765
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.980
Why does he have to call her a flimflam artist?

766
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.980
And a purely TNG episode.

767
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:26.940
So I must point out that the Ventaxians did have a 1000 years of

768
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:28.199
peace and tranquillity.

769
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:34.500
But that nearly wins it because they would have to play by the

770
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:37.320
rules, like because it's Star Trek and because they can't just

771
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:41.159
take over and it is a legal contract and if it's found legal in

772
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.440
their court of law, he just has to kind of wear it, I think.

773
00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:45.000
They never play part of rules.

774
00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:45.900
So do you remember Justice?

775
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.300
They just, he gives a speech and then beams Wesley out of there.

776
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.699
Yeah, he's a regular. in the opening credits.

777
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:54.719
But, yeah, yeah.

778
00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:58.980
Right, he goes, they've created this latent fear that's kind of

779
00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:02.099
run down the generations and now they're all terrified of her

780
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:02.400
yeah?

781
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:06.659
Why does she appear as this sort of camp villainous then?

782
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:09.659
And not some terrifying, godlike creature?

783
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.000
Because she is a camp villainess, I think.

784
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:16.019
Yeah, fair. that's fair enough Yeah.

785
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:17.519
I think that's absolutely it.

786
00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:21.420
So here we bringing the fear thing in from the cold open, you know

787
00:35:21.420 --> 00:35:24.840
like and that sort of thing, like kind of what's at stake.

788
00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:28.500
But what I think is really good, and it is very central to Star

789
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:32.340
Trek, and it does share this with who watches, the watchers, is

790
00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:35.940
the idea that it wasn't religion that solved the problem.

791
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.639
It can't have been religion that solved the problem.

792
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:41.460
It wasn't that they had this religious thing that happened.

793
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:43.199
It's the society developed.

794
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:48.000
They made good choices and they improve their lot.

795
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:51.119
They created a paradise by making good decisions.

796
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:53.880
And that's what happened on Earth and that's what Star Trek's all

797
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:54.300
about.

798
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.420
That's what's going to happen on Mintaka two, three, one of

799
00:35:57.420 --> 00:35:57.599
those.

800
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:01.380
You know, you know what you said later on about the scene where

801
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.059
you know, they realise what the con is.

802
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.559
Yeah, they explain it, she was.

803
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:06.480
And then he explains it to us in the courtroom.

804
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.780
And there he's going, well, I've got to find a loophole.

805
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:11.280
We're going to have to investigate this thing.

806
00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:12.719
Like everything's spelt out.

807
00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:17.340
Yeah, but there's no chance for this episode to pull a rabbit out

808
00:36:17.340 --> 00:36:18.000
of his hat, is it?

809
00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:18.480
No.

810
00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:19.079
No.

811
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:23.099
And I think one of them is indefensible, but that's the way the

812
00:36:23.099 --> 00:36:25.920
stories are told, you know, Star Trek's always like that.

813
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:31.260
Even, you know, late 90s Star Trek, late 90s Star Trek is still

814
00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:32.219
pulling that crap.

815
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.880
See, Nathan, this scene should be the funniest scene of the

816
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:36.179
episode.

817
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:40.260
Ultra, turning up in...

818
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.599
She looks like Faye Dunn.

819
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.960
Enormous handcuff.

820
00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:50.219
It's more 80s hair than 90s, isn't it?

821
00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:52.559
That massive fucking 80s hair.

822
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:54.900
She does look like a Dunaway in Supergirl.

823
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:56.340
It's wonderful.

824
00:36:57.059 --> 00:36:59.820
Now, let's be honest about this, yeah.

825
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:00.719
Shatner.

826
00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:03.900
And I'm wondering even if Cisco might, I've just gone, you know

827
00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:04.139
what?

828
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:04.860
Let's fuck.

829
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.559
Yeah, I didn't think Chatham would have fucked.

830
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:09.840
Like, I think Shatna fucks much less than we think he does

831
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:10.619
generally.

832
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:15.179
Prim governess cannot be because latent desires.

833
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:15.480
Please.

834
00:37:15.539 --> 00:37:19.920
I think you have seen Star Trek generations, right?

835
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:20.820
haven't you?

836
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.460
Oh, yeah, those of horrible moppets, yeah.

837
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.719
Okay, straight out, dickens.

838
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:25.800
And the woman.

839
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:28.199
Like the woman as well, like looks like this.

840
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:30.840
Oh, shit, hell, Marina.

841
00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:34.559
I think that's a beautifully directed thing too, where the camera

842
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.860
goes across and she's marina, like she disappears from the shot.

843
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.440
The camera goes across and there's Marina and it's her.

844
00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:41.340
I think that's really good.

845
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:45.360
No, it means Marina's been washing her coming onto him the whole

846
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:45.659
time.

847
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:51.599
She just barely touches his chest.

848
00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:52.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

849
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:53.219
That is really good.

850
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:54.300
That's a bit sexy, actually.

851
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:56.699
Gates McFadden would have been in there with her aunt.

852
00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:57.420
Come on now.

853
00:37:57.420 --> 00:37:59.460
Why don't you get gates to do that?

854
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.860
It's very, this is funny.

855
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.519
Picard being embarrassed in his pyjamas down on the planet.

856
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:08.699
Well, he does have very sexy pyjamas, doesn't he?

857
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:10.079
Like he has sexy pyjamas.

858
00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:11.579
And look, he's got pretty vascular arms.

859
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.940
Like he's pretty proud of whatever work he's been doing in LA.

860
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:16.619
Sexy right there.

861
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:20.340
Well, you know, like for Patrick Stewart.

862
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:22.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

863
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:26.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. specific set of circumstances, though, for that

864
00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:26.699
person.

865
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:29.159
Yeah, look how vascular his arms are.

866
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.800
This is prior to Starship mine.

867
00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:32.760
He still looks great.

868
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.300
They do give war for comedy line where he goes, a uniform or

869
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:36.900
something like that?

870
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:37.559
Like set?

871
00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:39.780
Did you say like that?

872
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:41.519
You are not Feckler.

873
00:38:41.579 --> 00:38:42.599
I think is great.

874
00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:47.340
But I still, I think Michael, like, remember the comedy he was

875
00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:48.719
playing in Where the Warrior?

876
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:50.940
He's still a bit stiff here as well, eh?

877
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:52.559
No one's quite there yet, are they?

878
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:56.880
But hasn't the survivors already happened at this point, which is

879
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.400
where he does his good house, nice tea or whatever?

880
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:00.780
script determined then.

881
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.880
Maybe it's the quality of the writing.

882
00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:05.400
I think I think just generally, because I don't think the

883
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:06.000
writing's bad.

884
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:08.760
I think generally what's happening is that these things happen in

885
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:10.139
fits and starts.

886
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:10.920
Do you know what I mean?

887
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:14.639
Like, I think that, and I think part of the problem is that this

888
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.820
is such a Picard heffey episode.

889
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:20.039
Like I wonder if Jonathan had been the main guy.

890
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:24.000
Although Jonathan can be stiff and pompous too, Carney, at this

891
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:24.179
point.

892
00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:29.519
I only the writing is bad, but the writing is functional in a way

893
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.619
that TNG so often is.

894
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:38.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah. the sort of paucity of genuine wit, you know, in

895
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.760
90s. so relevant here.

896
00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:44.699
But again, you see, I think this is really good.

897
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.539
Again, we have a scene where he's confident that she is just a

898
00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:51.599
scam artist and then we see it scale up.

899
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.780
So 1st she's on the bridge, then she's in the Ensign's chair, then

900
00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:56.519
she makes the Enterprise disappear.

901
00:39:56.519 --> 00:40:00.059
And all of those people who are running away and now going. going

902
00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:00.239
back.

903
00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:03.599
Well, they're going back to put the fire out, I think, mostly. you

904
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.079
know what I mean?

905
00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:05.519
It's like, I think I left the island.

906
00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:06.239
Those poor extras.

907
00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:08.519
They were just like, can you just walk up and down that wall?

908
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.840
be panicked.

909
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:10.199
Okay.

910
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:12.000
Pretend you're a car. planet.

911
00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:14.280
We'll map the pyramids in later.

912
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:20.099
I know we do sort of mock because special effects are so

913
00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:23.159
sophisticated now the steel images of the map painting with things

914
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:24.119
moving inside though.

915
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.400
I just think for the time it does look useful.

916
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:29.820
When I would see those map paintings at the time, I was utterly

917
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:32.340
convinced, my God, that's a whole other world, you know?

918
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.659
It looked amazing.

919
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:34.139
I think.

920
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.199
I think I remember even being impressed by the Matte paintings in

921
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.260
series one where they were no kind of elements like that.

922
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:44.639
She's full on Panto Dame now. come down in a velour costume and

923
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:46.440
she's got her hands on her hips.

924
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:47.280
I know.

925
00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:48.119
Just wonderful.

926
00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:52.079
She's basically having sex with the set as she strokes every cat

927
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:52.739
surf.

928
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:56.519
Oh my god, look at poor old scientist guy.

929
00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:58.920
He's leaning against the side.

930
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:01.079
I've got so little to do.

931
00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:02.099
I'm just gonna lie down.

932
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.460
So terrible.

933
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:06.360
Bless him.

934
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.920
There's only one person having fun in this scene and it ain't me.

935
00:41:12.659 --> 00:41:15.480
Yeah, it's a, it's a thing.

936
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.960
I want to say as well, whilst we are complimenting the effects

937
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.679
which we don't often do for the NG, that shot where you looked

938
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:26.400
through the shuttlecraft window at them approaching the Enterprise

939
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:30.000
and because it's been cleaned up so beautifully by the blue hat

940
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.599
and it's a model, it really looks detailed. very nice.

941
00:41:33.659 --> 00:41:37.139
I think also the enterprise reflected on the view on the

942
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:38.579
windscreen of the shuttle.

943
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.800
I mean, the shuttle set is so minuscule.

944
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.380
How tiny it was.

945
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.800
I mean, I used to think that was the highest sophistication I saw

946
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:47.280
set.

947
00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:50.460
Now you can just see it's like a carpeted wall, can't you?

948
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:52.800
That's right. nothing to it.

949
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.780
Now I always have you keep telling me everything's reflective.

950
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:59.940
But, man, everything was calm here.

951
00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:03.960
What do you imagine no sort of vials are there that we keep

952
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:04.800
getting shots off?

953
00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:06.960
No, that's the bar.

954
00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:09.119
Great science happens here.

955
00:42:09.179 --> 00:42:10.380
That's what they're trying to tell.

956
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:11.219
That's exactly it.

957
00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:12.239
Why are they?

958
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:13.500
I don't know.

959
00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:15.420
This is what I mean about meeting her, right?

960
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.400
So she's coming in, leaning in.

961
00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:19.920
I'm gonna kiss you, Picard, you know, if you're not careful.

962
00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:22.019
He's not giving her anything, is he?

963
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:23.639
He's so stiff.

964
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:27.360
But I think that that's, I mean, I do think that there is

965
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:31.980
something there, but he needs to be stiff because that's how it

966
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.340
works.

967
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:37.199
It's her being fun and him being stiff, but he needs to be.

968
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.659
No, but he needs to be stiff in a more knowing way.

969
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:43.019
Like, he's got to be a, you know, like as an actor, he's got to be

970
00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:45.659
he can't just be playing this straight because it's a comedy

971
00:42:45.659 --> 00:42:46.260
scene.

972
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:50.820
Like, I would like, if Shatner was here, I'd like Shatner to lean

973
00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:51.780
in and then pull away.

974
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:52.860
Like it's just...

975
00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:55.139
Look as if he's going to be seduced and they're not.

976
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:59.880
He can't be, he can't be, he can't be kind of discombobulated by

977
00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:04.440
her because he's absolutely convinced that she's a scam artist and

978
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:05.699
he never wavers.

979
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.119
Yeah, he doesn't toy with her in any way.

980
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:13.679
And it could be like a struggle between the 2 of them.

981
00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:16.619
Instead, it's her in charge and him just him, I'm not standing

982
00:43:16.619 --> 00:43:18.119
there, not doing that. anything.

983
00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:20.880
Yeah, yeah Poor Patrick Stewart.

984
00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:22.380
Chill out mate.

985
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:26.400
I think too, what's fun is that there's just one or 2 moments

986
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.599
where she is on the back foot, which I think are really well

987
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:33.659
chosen, but she doesn't go out on the back foot.

988
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:36.539
She goes out on a note of triumph, which I think is really great.

989
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:37.920
She's really good.

990
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:40.739
Oh, she was never going to go out with her head bowed.

991
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:41.219
Was she?

992
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:41.880
No, no.

993
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.000
She doesn't go through the door with more of a flourish.

994
00:43:45.179 --> 00:43:48.960
Oh, she goes out off between those boys.

995
00:43:49.019 --> 00:43:49.920
Do you know what I mean?

996
00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:54.780
The security men sort of take her off and she's she's got designs

997
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:55.440
on them, I think.

998
00:43:55.500 --> 00:44:00.300
So, I mean, now we're sort of going from standard trek procedural

999
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:02.820
to standard trek trial now.

1000
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:04.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1001
00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:07.800
So for the last 15 minutes, we have the trial scene.

1002
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:10.920
And I love a good trial scene, I don't think that this is bad.

1003
00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:14.280
Look how everyone's blocked in this scene as well.

1004
00:44:14.340 --> 00:44:17.699
They're in the 4 compass points of the room.

1005
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:19.260
Which the same room.

1006
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.219
Do you know what I mean?

1007
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:21.840
Like there's only one room on the planet.

1008
00:44:21.900 --> 00:44:24.179
No, there's 2 rooms on the planet Ventex, too.

1009
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.300
Men Cove, you know how to fill a set, man.

1010
00:44:27.420 --> 00:44:28.800
Very impressed.

1011
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.739
If only you learn how to move the camera as well.

1012
00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:36.420
Those chairs, those chairs are very familiar as well.

1013
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:38.820
They're great, but they're super familiar.

1014
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.400
They come in different colours or rather they just paint them

1015
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:42.059
different colours.

1016
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:42.900
They probably paint them.

1017
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:47.639
Yeah, lots of sort of concentric shapes on the floor as well.

1018
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:48.659
Oh, yeah.

1019
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:51.420
No, I think it's a reasonable set, but it is very kind of 90s

1020
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:52.260
track, isn't it?

1021
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.119
And there are no reflective surfaces.

1022
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:59.940
Now, this is amusing only in so far as data keeps telling off

1023
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:00.719
Captain Picard.

1024
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:02.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1025
00:45:02.340 --> 00:45:07.619
Although later on, he goes, like, he gives her some leeway, which

1026
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:10.380
is kind of funny, like when he, so I have ruled.

1027
00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:13.199
But your honour.

1028
00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:14.460
Oh, no.

1029
00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:15.840
Sit down, he goes.

1030
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:16.920
Please sit down.

1031
00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:19.320
I think he's having fun.

1032
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:22.260
Like, I think he is the other person in the cars who's having

1033
00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:22.559
fun.

1034
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:26.340
It's only in this scene, though, but he does kind of enjoy it.

1035
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:27.179
Brent, right?

1036
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.000
When he's having fun, obviously, he has to play that all seriously

1037
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.579
as well, because data can't be seen to be amusing.

1038
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.059
But I think the difference between the difference I was thinking

1039
00:45:36.059 --> 00:45:39.599
about this, because you mentioned Nemoy earlier, is potentially in

1040
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:42.360
this role, and of course, Nemoy wasn't going to be in phase 2

1041
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:43.980
probably, so it wouldn't have been him.

1042
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:50.880
Um, but, um, uh, that Nemoy is much more serious that he is much

1043
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:56.940
less easy to make look silly, whereas data is okay looking silly

1044
00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:59.880
like data frequently is silly, I think.

1045
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:03.119
But all Nemoy needs to do is arch his eyeball.

1046
00:46:03.179 --> 00:46:04.019
Arch an eyebrow, yeah.

1047
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.000
Yeah, hilarious.

1048
00:46:06.059 --> 00:46:06.780
Exactly.

1049
00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.079
Just little ticks.

1050
00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:13.559
Whereas poor, poor Brent Spider, he has to keep a poker face at

1051
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:13.920
all times.

1052
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:16.079
Kind of, kind of, I think.

1053
00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:20.880
Um, I, I, it's so funny because I just remember at the time

1054
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:23.880
thinking how much better this was than classic trek and I hadn't

1055
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:25.320
watched that much classic trek.

1056
00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:28.320
And I think in many ways it is better than classic Trek. is more

1057
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:28.860
consistent.

1058
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:30.780
It creates a bigger world.

1059
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:32.699
It's got a, you know, like all of that.

1060
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.820
In production terms, but actually, we've proven that's a lie

1061
00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:36.599
occasionally.

1062
00:46:36.659 --> 00:46:39.420
It's better often.

1063
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:40.320
I remember it.

1064
00:46:40.380 --> 00:46:41.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1065
00:46:41.340 --> 00:46:42.659
Remember Arena?

1066
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:45.780
I was just thinking about that outdoor set, the opening scenes of

1067
00:46:45.780 --> 00:46:48.360
arena in that. massive outlet.

1068
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:50.699
Yeah, that's shit's all over these map pages.

1069
00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:52.139
Yeah, that's right.

1070
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:53.159
That's right.

1071
00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:56.159
And do you remember the lighting in like the doomsday machine?

1072
00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:57.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1073
00:46:57.179 --> 00:46:58.199
Really dramatic?

1074
00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:00.719
And of course, of course, the music's better.

1075
00:47:00.780 --> 00:47:03.960
Although I did think the music, actually, that's one thing that is

1076
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:04.980
playful in this episode.

1077
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:06.599
It is pretty fun.

1078
00:47:06.659 --> 00:47:11.099
I'm doing that.

1079
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:14.219
You are out of order.

1080
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.139
The advocate of this is awful.

1081
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:19.619
You had the big muscle man just outside.

1082
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:24.179
You could have painted him red. instead.

1083
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:29.579
That is the campest devil I've ever seen. is enough big red body

1084
00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:31.019
stocking with a red cape.

1085
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.840
Oh, it's ghastly.

1086
00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:35.820
When he calls her the devil.

1087
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.659
When he calls her the devil, she smiles and goes, hmm, I haven't

1088
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:42.599
heard of that one for a while, and then clearly she goes back to

1089
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.440
her ship and, you know, gets a devil happening, like makes a devil

1090
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:48.900
in her holographic thing and then pulls it out for this.

1091
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:50.820
But I did think that that was really cute.

1092
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:52.739
You know, he looks like that devil.

1093
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:56.760
He looks like the sort of the little devil from South Park.

1094
00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:57.900
You know?

1095
00:47:57.960 --> 00:47:59.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1096
00:47:59.460 --> 00:48:01.500
It's so cheap.

1097
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:04.260
I mean, when they go in on his face, There's clearly been some

1098
00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:05.219
effort with the makeup.

1099
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.480
That isn't quite convincing enough. fairly odd.

1100
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:11.820
But I think Fecklar looks better.

1101
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:13.619
Like, I do think Feklar looks a lot better.

1102
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:17.519
Oh, there's Paul, man, look, even in the Tetna Bumble scenes

1103
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:18.599
George's got all the lines.

1104
00:48:18.659 --> 00:48:20.039
He's just pushing buttons.

1105
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1106
00:48:22.739 --> 00:48:25.260
Maybe you couldn't remember the lines.

1107
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:30.539
So here's what I think goes wrong at the end of the episode that

1108
00:48:30.539 --> 00:48:32.880
makes it a bit less fun than it could have been.

1109
00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:41.280
And that is that we need to see them looking for this ship, right

1110
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.679
but we don't need to see them find it.

1111
00:48:43.739 --> 00:48:46.139
So that scene should have ended.

1112
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:50.340
But then Geordie comes back in during the recess and says we found

1113
00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:52.139
under a ship and we've taken it over.

1114
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.980
And that takes absolutely the sting out of the thing.

1115
00:48:56.039 --> 00:49:00.599
Like, and so we should have discovered that they'd found the ship

1116
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.940
at the same time as the courtroom does.

1117
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:08.159
And so when Picard is doing the magic and claiming to take Andra's

1118
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:11.880
powers, we can work out because we watch TV before what's going

1119
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:12.239
on.

1120
00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:16.679
But it just would have been a little bit more fun if we hadn't

1121
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:17.639
known where this was going.

1122
00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:24.000
I mean, there's 21, 25 seasons of 90s track.

1123
00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:27.059
I'm trying really hard to think of a time where they've pulled off

1124
00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:32.400
a con or a genuinely surprising rabbit out of the hat and I'm

1125
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:33.179
coming up blank.

1126
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:35.219
Better being better bang, maybe.

1127
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:38.940
I mean, that is a con that goes horribly wrong and they have to

1128
00:49:38.940 --> 00:49:43.980
improvise their way out. how, but that is exactly how those things

1129
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:44.460
work.

1130
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:46.079
That's how a heist works, isn't it?

1131
00:49:46.139 --> 00:49:48.360
You see it played out, then you see it go wrong and they have to

1132
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:48.900
rescue it.

1133
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.400
Like that's playing by the rules.

1134
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:55.260
I just think that this, you know, the linearity of the

1135
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:58.679
storytelling is something that is really, really something that

1136
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:02.460
Star Trek doesn't really depart from until Kurtzman Trek comes

1137
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:02.940
along.

1138
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:06.539
Occasionally, you know, you know, they'll do a mind fuck episode

1139
00:50:06.539 --> 00:50:10.559
or Brannan will do something weird, but generally speaking.

1140
00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:12.780
It's all very linear and straightforward.

1141
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:17.639
Oh, I've just thought of a plotting flourish that works as a

1142
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:18.599
genuine con.

1143
00:50:18.659 --> 00:50:23.039
Do you remember Whispers, DS9 Whispers, where O'Brien comes onto

1144
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.199
the station and the 1st scenes from his point of view.

1145
00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:26.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1146
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.019
Everyone's behaving suspiciously.

1147
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:30.179
But the whole scene is from his POV.

1148
00:50:30.179 --> 00:50:33.480
And at the end, the flourish is that he's not real.

1149
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:34.320
Yeah.

1150
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:35.099
That was clever.

1151
00:50:35.219 --> 00:50:37.260
And that's rare.

1152
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:39.840
Yeah, that's the sort of thing that Beckett Mariner would have

1153
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:41.340
come up with in just a second.

1154
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:42.179
You know what I mean?

1155
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.480
Like, because she's, you know, like a soundtrack.

1156
00:50:45.539 --> 00:50:48.059
They're like, okay, we have the Col has to be on in the very 1st

1157
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:48.420
second.

1158
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:50.400
So there was something like that happening here.

1159
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:54.420
Of course, we've got to set up the planet and then we've got to

1160
00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:55.320
set up a con.

1161
00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:58.679
Yeah, yeah, we've got our investigator.

1162
00:50:58.739 --> 00:51:00.119
Everything is super laborious.

1163
00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:05.760
But remember, this is this is literally what, season 7 out of how

1164
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:08.639
many seasons of Star Trek have we had now?

1165
00:51:08.699 --> 00:51:13.559
It's still, despite everything very early days.

1166
00:51:13.619 --> 00:51:18.059
And so they are still really telling things in a very linear way.

1167
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:20.460
And it is a bit laborious.

1168
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:23.280
I'm going to give you a tough choice now, all right?

1169
00:51:23.340 --> 00:51:28.079
For Christmas, you can either have the Tom Paris, uh, um, threshold

1170
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:32.340
mutant that I keep promising to buy you, or you can have that half

1171
00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:35.099
leopard print costume that that man's wearing.

1172
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.860
They do really like Jared's outfit, I have to say.

1173
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:39.599
He's pretty great.

1174
00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:42.480
It is the best of the Ventaxian outfits.

1175
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:48.420
I have to say that this scene, this scene, that scene that's just

1176
00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:52.619
finishing in the trial is the most successful one, because it's

1177
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:55.500
that one where he says, no, you did it.

1178
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:57.000
Andra didn't do it.

1179
00:51:57.059 --> 00:51:59.159
God didn't come and solve their problem for you.

1180
00:51:59.219 --> 00:52:00.900
You did everything.

1181
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:04.800
You did the environmental things, you reintegrated your economy.

1182
00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:06.780
You cleaned up your planet.

1183
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:09.059
You deserve the credit for this, not her.

1184
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.559
And I think that...

1185
00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:13.679
I pointing out the audience there about the Bible and religion.

1186
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.539
Well, yes, I think so.

1187
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:18.480
I mean, the fact that it's the devil, you know, like religion is

1188
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:19.920
so rarely referenced.

1189
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:24.179
This is the devil, who 1000000s of Americans actually literally

1190
00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:25.500
believe exists.

1191
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:26.880
Do you know what I mean?

1192
00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:31.079
Like, like, so having it be the devil and say that it's the, say

1193
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:34.500
that it's the devil and the risk is that it's the devil and we did

1194
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:36.960
have that once, obviously, in the magics of Megas 2.

1195
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:39.599
Millions of Americans voted for Trump as well.

1196
00:52:39.659 --> 00:52:43.380
You know, they're willing to believe anything. accept.

1197
00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:48.599
But, so, so, and and remember the problem in who watches the

1198
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:48.960
watches?

1199
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:49.619
That's the other thing.

1200
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:52.199
I keep thinking of who watches the watches because it's also about

1201
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:56.219
that, you know, religion is the wrong way of looking at the

1202
00:52:56.219 --> 00:52:56.579
world.

1203
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:03.179
And Star Trek moves away from that in a way that I think is good

1204
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:04.019
and right.

1205
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:08.820
But, you know, it has a very, very humanist kind of taste.

1206
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:12.960
Both critiques uncelebrates it on DS9, doesn't it?

1207
00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:15.719
It has a really interesting styles on religion over there.

1208
00:53:15.780 --> 00:53:17.760
That money shot, right?

1209
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:18.539
The match shot.

1210
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:21.900
Yeah, we've now seen it about 5 times and it's, oh, Barry, let's

1211
00:53:21.900 --> 00:53:22.139
sing.

1212
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:25.679
Don't keep showing the same affection because you know that's all

1213
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:26.639
you had the money to do.

1214
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:29.099
Yeah, but Star Trek always does that.

1215
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:30.780
Like the establishing shot on the planet.

1216
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:31.559
Do you know what I mean?

1217
00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:32.760
Like even Deep Space 9.

1218
00:53:32.820 --> 00:53:36.960
It's always that shot of the Cardassian building or that shot of

1219
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.579
the temples on Bajor.

1220
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:42.480
I love the, I think he deserves some leeway, but that's quite

1221
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:42.900
enough.

1222
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:45.900
Like he lets, you know, because he got crossed an ardra for

1223
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:48.179
causing a, a...

1224
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:49.380
Well, you stop the tremors.

1225
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.739
She goes, oh, actually, she smiles, though.

1226
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:54.480
Oh, no, no, I like the trace.

1227
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.139
It's so great.

1228
00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:01.320
No, it's fun because she's on the back foot.

1229
00:54:01.380 --> 00:54:04.320
Yeah, but she doesn't she doesn't let it get to her.

1230
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:05.219
Do you know what I mean?

1231
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:06.659
Like she's not rattled or anything.

1232
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.420
This was a scene I thought worked.

1233
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:11.159
This was the thing I thought really well.

1234
00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:13.380
Look, look, how much fun Stuart's having now?

1235
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:14.400
Do you know what I mean?

1236
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:17.400
Now, he's finally... relaxing.

1237
00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:18.239
Oh boy.

1238
00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:20.699
There's that great thing on Monster.

1239
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:22.860
Oh, that's really unpleasant to look at.

1240
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:24.480
That's great. isn't it?

1241
00:54:24.659 --> 00:54:28.199
I mean, it's more like the devil, the devil.

1242
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:32.460
Like Dana's going, and then he goes all serious for a 2nd like

1243
00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:33.300
he's having fun.

1244
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:34.739
Like I think that's really great.

1245
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:36.719
You saw you too, Picard.

1246
00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:37.920
I think that's enough.

1247
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:39.300
No, no, he says that's enough.

1248
00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:40.380
You've had enough leeway now.

1249
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.940
And see, now she's on her back foot here, on the back foot here.

1250
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:45.840
Do you know what I mean?

1251
00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:51.420
Now that he no, now that he's said that he has her ship, uh, and

1252
00:54:51.420 --> 00:54:54.840
and, but then when she tries to weasel away out of it, it's so

1253
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:55.139
great.

1254
00:54:55.260 --> 00:55:00.480
It's so good I mean, even if this was, wasn't set out right, I

1255
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:04.019
don't think it's much of a, like he's playing it more fun and all

1256
00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:04.380
of that.

1257
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:07.920
But the dialogue, again, it's like, gosh, it's got a ship and it's

1258
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:10.199
a holiday technology.

1259
00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:13.440
Except that we've had 3 scenes that say that already.

1260
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:14.760
Do you know what I mean?

1261
00:55:14.820 --> 00:55:17.280
Like he said it at the beginning, then we've had and then we've

1262
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:19.980
had Geordie and Howard down on the planet for saying it. so

1263
00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:20.340
surprised.

1264
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.920
So maybe just losing one of those scenes wouldn't have surprised

1265
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.300
us, but it was just a bit.

1266
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:30.179
How clever you are, Captain Picard, to realise this call.

1267
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:32.340
But no, when she goes, you had no right.

1268
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.880
Like, she's really quite cross with him at this and he's on the

1269
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:36.719
back foot.

1270
00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:39.300
And so now he's doing the thing. you know, the camera's following

1271
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:43.500
him around like he's, you know, like this is a great scene, his

1272
00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:44.699
great accusing scene.

1273
00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.039
It's the sort of thing that Stuart does really well.

1274
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:48.659
He's really enjoying himself.

1275
00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:50.699
I think it's... smile on his face there.

1276
00:55:50.820 --> 00:55:51.780
Yeah, yeah.

1277
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:54.659
And then she goes, you're under the circumstances.

1278
00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:57.539
I think we'll just say that, you know, the contracts of being in

1279
00:55:57.539 --> 00:55:57.900
our...

1280
00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:00.360
Relief the ventaxians from my obligations.

1281
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:03.119
Keep the peace they have.

1282
00:56:03.539 --> 00:56:05.579
She's being generous.

1283
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:07.139
We'll just be on my way.

1284
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:08.639
See you later, boy.

1285
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:10.380
Great.

1286
00:56:10.380 --> 00:56:11.099
Oh, no.

1287
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:12.239
Look at the cards.

1288
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:13.079
What are they wearing?

1289
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:13.980
I know.

1290
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:17.760
And then, like, she turns and puts her hands on her.

1291
00:56:17.820 --> 00:56:18.719
She's so terrific.

1292
00:56:19.019 --> 00:56:23.340
Nathan, you look marvellous in that leper skin cap.

1293
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:26.219
I think I might tuck a little bit better on it.

1294
00:56:26.219 --> 00:56:27.599
Maybe or you would look.

1295
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:32.039
More reinforced underwear than...

1296
00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:36.599
Can I have the sort of quilted thigh jumpsuit, please?

1297
00:56:36.659 --> 00:56:37.500
Christmas.

1298
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:38.099
Thank you.

1299
00:56:39.659 --> 00:56:42.420
Yeah, see, the 2 of them are having fun.

1300
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:46.199
He's having fun, and then she just goes, look at her.

1301
00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:48.780
This whole episode should have been played like this.

1302
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:50.159
Yeah, great.

1303
00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:51.659
Look until we meet again.

1304
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:53.219
Big smile.

1305
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:54.599
Yeah, wonderful.

1306
00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:56.099
And then she just walks off with the boys.

1307
00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:58.559
What of stuff.

1308
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:03.119
I just feel like she's only going to be a prisoner for like 2

1309
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:03.539
seconds.

1310
00:57:03.599 --> 00:57:05.579
Oh, no, she'll have seduced them.

1311
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:06.780
Yeah, that's right.

1312
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:09.659
Oh, no, look at that last shot.

1313
00:57:09.780 --> 00:57:10.920
He pulled up.

1314
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:13.139
But that's classic.

1315
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:16.320
You know, that's classic TV courtroom procedural.

1316
00:57:16.380 --> 00:57:17.159
Yeah?

1317
00:57:17.219 --> 00:57:19.199
Like Harry Mason or something.

1318
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:20.039
Yeah.

1319
00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:23.340
Now, I know, but there was no one in the shot.

1320
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:24.659
It was just a load share.

1321
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:25.380
No, that's what you do.

1322
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:27.780
No, no, you let you just pull back on the courtroom.

1323
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:29.099
That's a standard thing.

1324
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:32.579
That's actually that's that's doing a thing, I think.

1325
00:57:33.059 --> 00:57:36.539
Oh, actually, the next episode was just, it is clues.

1326
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:38.579
I think that has a twist at the end, doesn't it?

1327
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:43.260
Yes, I think so my experience, I don't know whether I've said this

1328
00:57:43.260 --> 00:57:47.639
before. but I had seen episodes, I'd seen season one and season 2

1329
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:52.079
of Star Trek, The Next Generation, because they were released for

1330
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:53.699
rental on VHS.

1331
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:58.800
And so the 1st episode that I saw from like a later season was

1332
00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:02.460
clues and it just looked astoundingly good.

1333
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:05.400
So it's the 1st time I'd seen the new opening credits, which come

1334
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:06.780
in in series three.

1335
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:11.039
The new enterprise model, just the special effects looked better.

1336
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:14.519
You know, there's no guest star, I think, in clues. like it is all

1337
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:15.539
just this mystery.

1338
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:18.960
But it's so well done and just well told.

1339
00:58:19.019 --> 00:58:22.800
Like, I think Clues is a much better episode than Devil's Dew, but

1340
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:27.960
what Devil's Dew has is is Mar de Duvois, which is why I'll always

1341
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:28.320
love it.

1342
00:58:28.380 --> 00:58:29.519
I think she's magnificent.

1343
00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:32.699
My 1st was lonely among us.

1344
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.179
The VHS of Lonely Among Us and Justice, you know.

1345
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:37.920
And obviously I was young.

1346
00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:41.940
So the sleigh and the Anticons, I mean, I'd never seen that. used

1347
00:58:41.940 --> 00:58:43.739
to doctor radiants, for fuck's sake.

1348
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:45.480
And then you were on a sex planet.

1349
00:58:45.539 --> 00:58:47.460
I'm like, my God, this is the best.

1350
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:49.199
No, I'm like 9 or something.

1351
00:58:49.260 --> 00:58:51.119
I've ever seen.

1352
00:58:51.179 --> 00:58:53.519
Look at those men being oiled up on that planet.

1353
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:54.719
Jesus.

1354
00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:59.280
I mean, I had a lot of fun talking about that with you, far more

1355
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:01.920
fun than I had actually watching the bloody thing.

1356
00:59:02.099 --> 00:59:04.679
Do you know what I was trying to think, actually?

1357
00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:07.079
Is there a great TNG with a big rug ball?

1358
00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:08.219
And we've already done one.

1359
00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:11.219
Remember me had a great rumble in it.

1360
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.440
And the misdirect was, wasn't it?

1361
00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:15.719
We keep thinking everything's happening to all the other people

1362
00:59:15.780 --> 00:59:17.099
and the twist.

1363
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:20.039
It's happening to her and she's trapped in the bubble.

1364
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:24.719
But it doesn't give away the twist. until the twist happens.

1365
00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:25.679
Yeah.

1366
00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:27.840
It's actually very well done. isn't it?

1367
00:59:27.900 --> 00:59:32.099
We wait and hold off, whereas this is very linear and very

1368
00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:35.579
straightforward and that's a little bit of a shame.

1369
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:39.659
But as you pointed out, the scene that I didn't like is probably

1370
00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:43.500
you know, the 3rd or 4th scene where we kind of discuss what's

1371
00:59:43.500 --> 00:59:46.739
really happening in the episode, so it's not that big a twist, but

1372
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:49.619
I did think it was really a bit flat-footed, that scene.

1373
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:52.860
That scene that irritates me the most is the one in Picard's

1374
00:59:52.860 --> 00:59:53.219
course.

1375
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:54.960
That's the one I think really highlights.

1376
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:56.820
How stiff he is.

1377
00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:57.659
Oh, God, man.

1378
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:01.500
Just give them all some bloody drugs or something to chill about.

1379
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:04.619
I mean, do you remember them in the naked now that we did?

1380
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:05.880
They were more relaxed in that.

1381
01:00:05.940 --> 01:00:09.659
Well, which was precisely the point of the naked now, I think, was

1382
01:00:09.659 --> 01:00:12.300
that they're so steerful all the time and we get to see them relax

1383
01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:14.400
and recite their bios to us.

1384
01:00:14.460 --> 01:00:17.940
They should have given Patrick Stewart his coffee and just slipped

1385
01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:20.880
a bit of vodka in there or something, you know, a bit of rum.

1386
01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:25.559
Yeah, it is a shame and I think it's probably Patrick Stewart's

1387
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:29.159
fault more than anyone else because he is not having enough fun

1388
01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:30.780
until that very final scene.

1389
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.019
I think the franchise has to relax as well though.

1390
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:35.760
I think so. that's right.

1391
01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:39.360
They're getting there. and I think you're right. sort of 5 to 7

1392
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:40.739
when they try this.

1393
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:43.260
I mean, trust me, there are episodes that are supposed to be fun

1394
01:00:43.260 --> 01:00:45.059
and the procedural stuff gets in the way.

1395
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:49.260
But I think the crew together are more relaxed.

1396
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:52.440
This is you're right. so focussed on one character and that

1397
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:53.579
character is so stiff.

1398
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:58.860
But like I said, like in this spot or just a few episodes before

1399
01:00:58.860 --> 01:01:01.679
in DS94, it's our man for shit.

1400
01:01:01.739 --> 01:01:05.400
And everyone, man, nobody's stiff in that. was having the best

1401
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:05.579
time.

1402
01:01:05.639 --> 01:01:09.780
Yeah, it takes them much less time to loosen up and I think, you

1403
01:01:09.780 --> 01:01:12.780
know, the cast is a bit better the 2nd time round.

1404
01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:15.480
Did you take a while, though?

1405
01:01:15.539 --> 01:01:16.260
We did move along home.

1406
01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:20.340
We were complaining in that, that, like, they're in a fun

1407
01:01:20.340 --> 01:01:24.599
situation and Cisco and Kira was angry, wasn't she?

1408
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:25.619
Yeah, yeah.

1409
01:01:25.619 --> 01:01:27.840
I don't know what was going on with Bashir in that.

1410
01:01:27.900 --> 01:01:28.619
Yeah, yeah.

1411
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:31.860
Well, again, you know, it does take them a while to warm up and to

1412
01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:35.579
realise exactly how they can work together and that seems to be

1413
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:38.639
kind of normal, I guess, in 90s trek.

1414
01:01:38.699 --> 01:01:43.079
But yes, I still think that the, the surprising thing here, and

1415
01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:46.980
it's the, the reason that Q works as well, is that the crew is so

1416
01:01:46.980 --> 01:01:51.900
stiff and that, um, that Audra and Q are not, that they're the

1417
01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:54.239
most fun thing on screen, and that's pretty good.

1418
01:01:54.300 --> 01:01:57.599
But it does also highlight, something that you and I have said

1419
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:01.199
again and again and again about 90s trek, is sometimes these

1420
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:04.920
episodes can live or die on the strength of the guest

1421
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:05.159
performance.

1422
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:06.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1423
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:07.739
And I'm not talking about the old man.

1424
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:10.619
I'm talking about Martha Dubois.

1425
01:02:10.679 --> 01:02:15.659
You know, and if there is fun to be had here and there is, it's

1426
01:02:15.659 --> 01:02:17.400
all coming from down a direction.

1427
01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:19.739
Yeah, absolutely.

1428
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:29.820
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1429
01:02:29.820 --> 01:02:31.800
work out where we're going next.

1430
01:02:31.860 --> 01:02:34.019
Surprisingly, this wasn't my choice.

1431
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:40.320
This was yours, Joe. And so I am going to go to a series that we

1432
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:44.519
have neglected a little bit lately, which is Star Trek Discovery.

1433
01:02:44.579 --> 01:02:46.920
Everyone's neglecting that now.

1434
01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:48.960
Now all the new shows are coming out.

1435
01:02:49.019 --> 01:02:50.400
Strange New Worlds Academy.

1436
01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:52.679
People seem to have forgotten discovery exists.

1437
01:02:52.739 --> 01:02:56.699
Well, that's right, but I haven't, and I'm keen to watch some.

1438
01:02:56.760 --> 01:02:58.980
So I am going to press the button.

1439
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:02.099
The great father of all of this Kurtzwin trick.

1440
01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:03.420
Exactly right.

1441
01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:04.559
All right, here goes.

1442
01:03:05.460 --> 01:03:07.980
This is one we've done already.

1443
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:13.139
Kobayashi Maru, which we covered on untitled Star Trek Project

1444
01:03:13.139 --> 01:03:13.800
episode one.

1445
01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:15.960
That was absolutely pissed as houses, wasn't she?

1446
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:16.559
It was wonderful.

1447
01:03:16.619 --> 01:03:18.659
Oh no, this is series four, episode one.

1448
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:21.659
So this is the one that starts with them on the butterfly planet

1449
01:03:21.659 --> 01:03:26.280
having a great old caper with book and stuff. and then it ends

1450
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:29.460
remember, with the destruction.

1451
01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:30.420
That action sequence.

1452
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:31.260
So it went on forever.

1453
01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:32.219
It's so good.

1454
01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:33.840
It was really good. bloody minutes.

1455
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:34.920
Gal many episodes.

1456
01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:35.400
Sorry.

1457
01:03:35.460 --> 01:03:38.760
No, that was a kind of reminder of why Star Trek's fun, I think.

1458
01:03:38.820 --> 01:03:40.440
Let's try another one.

1459
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:44.639
Season one, episode five.

1460
01:03:44.699 --> 01:03:46.079
Choose your pain.

1461
01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:48.420
Choose your pain.

1462
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:52.199
Lawker is captured and held prisoner by the Klingons, leaving Saru

1463
01:03:52.199 --> 01:03:55.860
to face his 1st command situation and a difficult choice.

1464
01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:59.099
I think that's the one with Harry Mudd in it, actually.

1465
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:03.480
And it's got the sort of vogue plot, the vogue Lorel plot

1466
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:04.019
happening.

1467
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:06.480
We've done a series where...

1468
01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:10.619
And we have covered a bit of mud on discovery before as well.

1469
01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:12.420
So let's try another one.

1470
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:14.880
Come on, I want to do a five. season five.

1471
01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:19.619
So this is terra firma part two, season three, episode 10.

1472
01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:21.659
So it's toward the end of series three.

1473
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:24.059
We have done some of the end of series three.

1474
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:26.460
Terrafirma part two.

1475
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:30.059
Let's not do that. and the end and a few in the middle.

1476
01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:31.920
Come on, we've done a fair bit of free.

1477
01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:33.420
Keep press until you get five.

1478
01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:37.199
Into the forest I go, season one, episode nine.

1479
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:42.659
Season four, episode five, which is called the examples and we did

1480
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:44.340
it already on episode 50.

1481
01:04:44.820 --> 01:04:49.260
I always think there's so many Discovery episodes and there's only

1482
01:04:49.260 --> 01:04:50.219
50, isn't there?

1483
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:51.719
No, no, there's more than that.

1484
01:04:51.780 --> 01:04:55.139
No, no, no, because it's 5 seasons, but the early seasons are, you

1485
01:04:55.139 --> 01:04:56.820
know, like 13 and stuff like that.

1486
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:58.920
Was it 1670?

1487
01:04:58.980 --> 01:05:00.960
I'm not sure. don't think it's 70.

1488
01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:05.340
Light and Shadows, season two, episode seven.

1489
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:06.360
No, keep going.

1490
01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:07.380
I want season 5.

1491
01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:08.219
What's going on?

1492
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:12.239
Saints of imperfection, season two, episode five?

1493
01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:16.139
I'd settle for season 4 as well, I have to say.

1494
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:18.539
No, no, because we haven't done five, have we?

1495
01:05:18.659 --> 01:05:20.460
Yeah, that's true.

1496
01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:22.800
Magic to make the sanest man go mad.

1497
01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:24.119
Good grief.

1498
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:28.320
Usually the randomiser loves the last season of any show.

1499
01:05:29.099 --> 01:05:32.940
Ooh, season four, episode four, we've rolled this before.

1500
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:34.079
It's all is possible.

1501
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:36.119
It's a tily episode.

1502
01:05:36.179 --> 01:05:39.960
It's her last regular episode, and it's a little bit of a sort of

1503
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.800
Starfleet Academy pilot in the sense that we have a bunch of

1504
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:47.099
cadets on a shuttle that gets trapped on a planet with a monster.

1505
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:49.019
It's very standard Star Trek.

1506
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:50.940
And it's...

1507
01:05:50.940 --> 01:05:52.260
Oh, she end up on a beer.

1508
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:53.280
Why?

1509
01:05:53.340 --> 01:05:57.960
She ends up working for Starfleet Academy before it moves to San

1510
01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:01.679
Francisco and I think that there's some talk of her being on

1511
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:02.940
Starfleet Academy.

1512
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:04.440
Yeah, yeah, but how does that happen?

1513
01:06:04.500 --> 01:06:06.059
That's not the same time zone, is it?

1514
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:06.599
Yeah, it is.

1515
01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:07.679
Yeah, of course it is.

1516
01:06:07.739 --> 01:06:10.380
It's Admiral Van. in it?

1517
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:11.760
It has Admiral Vance in it.

1518
01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:13.019
They talked about discovery the other day.

1519
01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:15.000
It's said a few years.

1520
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:17.400
I mean, I lose it, they jump about in time so much.

1521
01:06:17.460 --> 01:06:20.159
Just where I am, if I'm honest.

1522
01:06:20.219 --> 01:06:24.179
Well, no, and then we're doing stuff back in Strangely Worlds and

1523
01:06:24.179 --> 01:06:26.340
I'm just all over the place in Kurtzman Trek.

1524
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:29.280
So this is not what we're doing because it's series one, but I

1525
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.619
mentioned it because it has an incredible title.

1526
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:36.179
It's series one, episode four, The Butcher's Knife, Cares Not for

1527
01:06:36.179 --> 01:06:37.679
the Lamb's Cry.

1528
01:06:37.739 --> 01:06:40.320
That could have come from the pen of Ira Bear.

1529
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:41.460
Couldn't be that time.

1530
01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:43.380
Or original track, I think.

1531
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:44.639
It's pretty good.

1532
01:06:44.699 --> 01:06:48.179
Come on, will you find me a season 5 episode?

1533
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:51.780
Okay, we're doing this. a season 4 episode, but it is a very good

1534
01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:52.199
one.

1535
01:06:52.260 --> 01:06:53.460
Come on.

1536
01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:55.860
We have to stop rolling at some and I'm starting to get

1537
01:06:55.860 --> 01:06:56.400
embarrassed.

1538
01:06:56.460 --> 01:06:57.000
Keep going.

1539
01:06:57.059 --> 01:06:57.420
All right.

1540
01:06:57.480 --> 01:06:58.980
Well, just keep pressing it.

1541
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:00.960
I think this is a really good episode though.

1542
01:07:01.500 --> 01:07:03.539
I haven't watched any of it.

1543
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:05.219
Okay, okay.

1544
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:05.820
Sorry.

1545
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:08.940
I don't usually have a patty, but I'm insisting here.

1546
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:12.300
Series four, season 4 is one of my favourite Star Trek seasons

1547
01:07:12.300 --> 01:07:14.880
ever, and this is, I think, after an episode that we've done.

1548
01:07:14.940 --> 01:07:20.039
Rosetta, it's towards the end as we get to know who the 10 CR, but

1549
01:07:20.039 --> 01:07:21.000
I will press the button.

1550
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:24.119
Season 2, episode three.

1551
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:25.980
Oh, my God.

1552
01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:27.900
Have you not included season five?

1553
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:33.239
Season one, episode 8, SeaWiz Park, and Parabellum, a nice Latin

1554
01:07:33.239 --> 01:07:35.340
one, like inter armour.

1555
01:07:35.579 --> 01:07:39.420
That hope is you part two, which we've done already.

1556
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:41.820
Okay, here it is.

1557
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:42.480
Here you are.

1558
01:07:42.539 --> 01:07:43.679
Bloody hell.

1559
01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:45.719
I mean, the fire. 25 episodes in.

1560
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.239
This is the longest stroll.

1561
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:51.719
This is the one we've cheated the most apart from the 2 where we

1562
01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:54.420
do the pilot because that's the only episode there is.

1563
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:59.699
This is season five, episode four, Face the Strange.

1564
01:07:59.880 --> 01:08:03.059
Face the Strange. right lets have a look now.

1565
01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:07.139
Face the Strange, an act of sabotage causes discovery to

1566
01:08:07.139 --> 01:08:09.360
repeatedly jump through time and space.

1567
01:08:09.659 --> 01:08:10.440
I just complaining about that.

1568
01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:14.340
With only Burnham, Rayner, and Stammers, unaffected by the

1569
01:08:14.340 --> 01:08:17.460
phenomenon, and having any chance of stopping it.

1570
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:20.520
Well, that sounds like a jolly standard sort of Star Trek

1571
01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:20.880
episode.

1572
01:08:20.939 --> 01:08:24.779
It's a very standard high concept Star Trek episode, a little bit

1573
01:08:24.779 --> 01:08:28.979
like the late Voyager one where they, there's one where they go

1574
01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:32.819
back in time to different time zones during the show's run.

1575
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:34.319
Relativity.

1576
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:35.460
Relativity.

1577
01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:37.319
So it's a bit like relativity.

1578
01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:41.579
So, um, Rainer is a new character for season five.

1579
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:47.399
He is Burnham's 2IC while Saru is not on discovery.

1580
01:08:47.460 --> 01:08:53.220
He's back at Federation HQ with Trina, the head of the planet

1581
01:08:53.220 --> 01:08:56.760
Navarre, the lovely Valcan lady who he ends up getting married to

1582
01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:57.659
in the final episode.

1583
01:08:57.720 --> 01:09:00.720
You're going to be catching me up on a lot, aren't you?

1584
01:09:01.619 --> 01:09:03.720
So, yes.

1585
01:09:03.779 --> 01:09:05.340
So this will be fun.

1586
01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:10.979
So series five, which we haven't done, and series five, you know

1587
01:09:10.979 --> 01:09:15.359
when we started an untitled Star Trek project, I can't remember

1588
01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:18.180
where we were up to on Discover View, but we weren't up to season

1589
01:09:18.180 --> 01:09:21.479
five yet, so it all happened while we've been doing this.

1590
01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:24.239
I think it's really fun.

1591
01:09:24.300 --> 01:09:25.439
It's super light.

1592
01:09:25.500 --> 01:09:28.920
I think that 4 is probably the most successful season, I think, one

1593
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.560
is tremendous. 4 is really properly good.

1594
01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:34.140
I think it's a great season of Star Trek.

1595
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:36.300
And 5 is kind of like a coda.

1596
01:09:36.359 --> 01:09:37.619
I'm glad we have it.

1597
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:41.460
We have Tilly back full-time after she disappears from 4 for a bit

1598
01:09:41.460 --> 01:09:43.739
and it's it's fun.

1599
01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:48.960
You know, so often you have sort of mournful, sad, looking tirily

1600
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:51.600
into the cameras and equal like we did in series too.

1601
01:09:51.659 --> 01:09:53.699
This is them having a caper.

1602
01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:57.479
It's proper caper stuff and so it is fun and enjoyable.

1603
01:09:57.539 --> 01:10:00.840
Well, I promise you, I would absolutely give, given I've just had

1604
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:05.159
such a tantrum to get us into season five, I promise you, I will

1605
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:08.880
absolutely... just so curious because it's this is sort of like a

1606
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:09.720
blank spot for me.

1607
01:10:09.779 --> 01:10:12.060
So I'm like, well, what was the tone?

1608
01:10:12.180 --> 01:10:14.460
What was what was the feel of season five?

1609
01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:17.760
And it gives us a chance to talk about sort of the actors coming

1610
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:19.260
in and out as well, doesn't it?

1611
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:24.899
And the delays in it being made and well, whether it was very

1612
01:10:24.899 --> 01:10:25.859
successful or not.

1613
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:28.680
Yeah, I'm intrigued. suitably intrigued.

1614
01:10:28.739 --> 01:10:40.859
I think it'll be fun. listening to entitled Star Trek Project with

1615
01:10:40.859 --> 01:10:44.640
Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek

1616
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:47.880
Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to

1617
01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:49.020
our social media accounts.

1618
01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:52.920
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1619
01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:54.779
composed by Cameron Lahn.

1620
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:58.619
This episode was recorded on the 9th of February, 2026, and

1621
01:10:58.619 --> 01:11:00.180
released on the 13th of February.

1622
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:03.720
And we'll see you next time for Star Trek Discovery, Face the

1623
01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:04.199
Strange.

1624
01:11:20.819 --> 01:11:23.520
Oh, Nathan, that lion at the end.

1625
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:24.600
Jesus Christ.

1626
01:11:24.659 --> 01:11:25.979
Well, I'll be off now.

1627
01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:33.420
I release the Ventaxians from their obligations. and allowed them

1628
01:11:33.420 --> 01:11:35.100
to enjoy the peace that they've had.

1629
01:11:37.020 --> 01:11:38.399
Right.

1630
01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:39.779
She just doesn't.

1631
01:11:39.779 --> 01:11:44.399
Because it would have been no fun to see her expostulate like a

1632
01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:45.539
Scooby-Doo villain.

1633
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:48.960
Like that would have been super boring. like just having her go

1634
01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:49.920
out in triumph.

1635
01:11:49.979 --> 01:11:53.279
And that's the, that's a picture on the website is her smiling

1636
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:57.119
triumphantly as she is taken off by the, by the guards.

1637
01:11:57.420 --> 01:12:00.060
Oh, the great camp.

1638
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:04.439
Who are the great camp villains from 90s Trek?

1639
01:12:04.500 --> 01:12:07.020
Well, obviously Wayoon.

1640
01:12:07.079 --> 01:12:08.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1641
01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:09.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1642
01:12:09.960 --> 01:12:11.039
Oh, and gum.

1643
01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:11.819
What's his face?

1644
01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:19.560
That other terrible, um, that early, very early, uh, um, Vorta

1645
01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:23.520
who's dead, who they weakened at Bernie's with later on.

1646
01:12:23.579 --> 01:12:25.739
Do you remember the Camp Evil one?

1647
01:12:25.739 --> 01:12:28.439
Is he the one in rocks and shoals?

1648
01:12:28.500 --> 01:12:29.640
Is he in rocks and shoals?

1649
01:12:29.699 --> 01:12:30.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1650
01:12:30.420 --> 01:12:32.880
I hate Frankie when he gets shot.

1651
01:12:34.859 --> 01:12:37.199
See, I think he's pretty good.

1652
01:12:38.220 --> 01:12:42.600
Yeah, but like, because the villains tend to be a film thing

1653
01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:45.300
really, rather than a Star Trek the Next Generation thing. you

1654
01:12:45.300 --> 01:12:46.979
know, like actual villains.

1655
01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:49.800
Like, like, when is pre-camp?

1656
01:12:49.859 --> 01:12:51.119
which she wants to be.

1657
01:12:51.180 --> 01:12:56.520
Is Denise having fun in, um, in whatever it is?

1658
01:12:56.579 --> 01:12:58.859
Probably not as much as she should.

1659
01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:00.060
No, I think so.

1660
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:01.079
She's a bit muted.

1661
01:13:01.140 --> 01:13:04.020
She should be chewing the scenery a bit more, I think.

1662
01:13:04.079 --> 01:13:04.979
Yeah.

1663
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:09.659
I think Brent's having too much fun in descent.

1664
01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:11.100
Oh yeah, yeah.

1665
01:13:11.159 --> 01:13:12.720
He's not fun to watch that performance.

1666
01:13:12.779 --> 01:13:16.680
I don't like that Brent Brent bad guy performance thing that he

1667
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:18.960
just does, whether he's law or whoever he is.

1668
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:22.260
The sun, the sun, are together again.

1669
01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:23.760
Terrible, you do it.

1670
01:13:23.819 --> 01:13:30.659
I mean, mind you, like Garak and Ducart in a scene together is pre

1671
01:13:29.939 --> 01:13:30.659
camp.

1672
01:13:30.659 --> 01:13:31.920
Yeah.

1673
01:13:31.979 --> 01:13:32.699
That is true.

1674
01:13:32.699 --> 01:13:35.340
You may just need my help.

1675
01:13:38.699 --> 01:13:41.939
Actually, though, Garrick is the campus character.

1676
01:13:41.939 --> 01:13:43.560
Star Trek.

1677
01:13:43.560 --> 01:13:46.020
Well, let me guess.

1678
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:49.979
Oh boy, oh boy.

1679
01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:53.220
Should we do it or not?

1680
01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:55.619
If not, we'll do it discovery. do you think?

1681
01:13:56.579 --> 01:13:58.380
It's up to you.

1682
01:13:58.439 --> 01:13:59.640
Up to you entirely.

1683
01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:02.760
The travel is though. don't want to do too many of them.

1684
01:14:02.819 --> 01:14:04.560
Because then we'll have none to watch.

1685
01:14:04.619 --> 01:14:10.680
Well, if we do that, then that's our 20%, that does heating 20%, and

1686
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:13.439
we can't do it until the next season comes along.

1687
01:14:13.619 --> 01:14:16.020
I think we should do a discovery.

1688
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:18.600
And it's not because I don't want to do that episode because I

1689
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:23.460
would love to discuss it, but I think...

1690
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:27.659
Let that season all come out. and then we'll do another one and

1691
01:14:27.659 --> 01:14:29.939
and I don't know.

1692
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:31.439
I just feel like then we take them all, you know?

1693
01:14:31.439 --> 01:14:34.680
like, it will be enough. yeah, yeah, yeah. well situations where

1694
01:14:34.680 --> 01:14:36.000
we can't press the button for a while.

1695
01:14:36.060 --> 01:14:36.960
We can't press the button.

1696
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.579
We're creeping up.

1697
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:41.460
It is still the one that we've watched the most of, Strangely

1698
01:14:41.460 --> 01:14:43.739
Worlds at 23, 3%.

1699
01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:47.760
All that stuff I learned is banks, all that stuff from that

1700
01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:49.739
interview, which was such a great interview.

1701
01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:50.699
It was so good.

1702
01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:51.420
It was so good.

1703
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:53.699
And it just far out.

1704
01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:55.560
I just think the episode is so well told.

1705
01:14:55.619 --> 01:14:59.699
Like, you know, I was raving about how well written, um, I thought

1706
01:14:59.699 --> 01:15:03.960
kids these days was, how thematically it all worked and was

1707
01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:06.600
telling something like a really coherent story and stuff.

1708
01:15:06.720 --> 01:15:13.140
And here, like, I think, Like, he has some arc stuff to do, like

1709
01:15:13.140 --> 01:15:16.020
with the kids and it's got some arc stuff to do with the war

1710
01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:19.739
college guy and um, and Nala.

1711
01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:26.460
Um, but just, just how well, like, you know, it's like those old

1712
01:15:26.460 --> 01:15:31.500
scientists where Tony Newsome comes along and teaches, you know

1713
01:15:31.500 --> 01:15:38.640
like it's a young black woman from Benjamin Cisco. like the way

1714
01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:43.500
that tawny Newsom herself had and and like tawny getting the

1715
01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:46.319
chance to mentor that younger version of herself. and the fact

1716
01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:50.340
that Sam works in that role so well and that it's a good story for

1717
01:15:50.340 --> 01:15:53.640
Sam because we don't really know Sam's backstory, like we don't

1718
01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:54.539
know any of that stuff.

1719
01:15:54.600 --> 01:16:01.319
And just gradually her interacting with the makers is like becomes

1720
01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:03.359
like Cisco interacting with the prophets.

1721
01:16:03.420 --> 01:16:07.140
Even in the way that that's shot, you know, like where he goes to

1722
01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:10.079
he's still in the same set, but the lighting's different and, you

1723
01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:12.539
know, the other people aren't there and then he's interacting

1724
01:16:12.539 --> 01:16:14.880
she's interacting with, you know, the special effect.

1725
01:16:14.939 --> 01:16:16.920
And did you see who played the makers?

1726
01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:19.979
It was sure tell Aija for.

1727
01:16:21.180 --> 01:16:27.600
Posh, English black guy is playing her makers, like, you know, the

1728
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:28.140
parents.

1729
01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:32.520
And so she's got these demanding, these, these sort of demanding

1730
01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:33.300
parent.

1731
01:16:33.300 --> 01:16:37.439
And then she learns what a loving parent is like through Tawny

1732
01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:39.479
Newsome and through Syric.

1733
01:16:39.539 --> 01:16:42.779
And, you know, like, just, just seeing Sirik.

1734
01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:44.340
I had no idea he was coming.

1735
01:16:44.340 --> 01:16:45.659
So good.

1736
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:48.479
And he's like, I mean, he was always...

1737
01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:53.460
I mean, he learned to be very, very good in DS9, but that's an

1738
01:16:53.460 --> 01:16:56.279
that's an actor that's learned some lessons as well.

1739
01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:57.840
And it's funny, isn't it?

1740
01:16:57.899 --> 01:16:58.979
Because he was like a bean pole.

1741
01:16:59.100 --> 01:17:01.439
Like he was a little kid and they even...

1742
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:03.960
It looks just like Avery Brooks.

1743
01:17:04.140 --> 01:17:04.500
I know.

1744
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:05.520
That was the other thing.

1745
01:17:05.579 --> 01:17:09.720
He's got the shaved head and they dress him like Avery, you know

1746
01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:12.659
like they dress him like Avery because they don't have Avery.

1747
01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:17.039
He obviously, he was communicating with Avery the whole time and

1748
01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:19.560
was like, you know, you're happy for this.

1749
01:17:19.619 --> 01:17:23.939
And and they had creative input into the episode because I think

1750
01:17:23.939 --> 01:17:25.920
they didn't want it spoiled either.

1751
01:17:25.979 --> 01:17:31.439
Remember, Avery said that he insisted on the line, one day I'll

1752
01:17:31.439 --> 01:17:34.859
come back because he didn't want DS9 to end with a black man

1753
01:17:34.859 --> 01:17:36.119
abandoning his family.

1754
01:17:36.180 --> 01:17:39.840
But I mean, what they land on, and that's the that's the thing

1755
01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:40.199
here too.

1756
01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:42.659
Like we've got the religion thing in this episode, right?

1757
01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:44.760
Where religion is clearly false.

1758
01:17:44.819 --> 01:17:47.100
She can't be the devil. because there isn't a devil, right?

1759
01:17:47.159 --> 01:17:50.340
And then, and then you get Sam going into the Bajoran Christian

1760
01:17:50.340 --> 01:17:54.060
Club at the academy and telling them all that their religion's

1761
01:17:54.060 --> 01:17:55.739
made up and it's clearly nonsense.

1762
01:17:55.800 --> 01:17:59.880
But we land on the fact that the religion isn't in fact made up

1763
01:17:59.880 --> 01:18:05.100
and Jake says that he believes that Ben has been there all along

1764
01:18:05.100 --> 01:18:05.819
watching him.

1765
01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:10.260
And in an episode where they studiously avoid showing us Avery's

1766
01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:13.800
face, you know, like and people saying, oh, we don't have the

1767
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:14.460
rights to do that.

1768
01:18:14.460 --> 01:18:15.539
And you kind of go, come on.

1769
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:16.920
Like, of course they do.

1770
01:18:16.979 --> 01:18:19.079
If they wanted to show every space, they would.

1771
01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:19.800
They don't.

1772
01:18:19.859 --> 01:18:24.300
But in the final shot and someone pointed it out on blue sky.

1773
01:18:24.359 --> 01:18:24.779
Do you see it?

1774
01:18:25.020 --> 01:18:29.699
No, I haven't gone back and watched it, but that you can see Ben

1775
01:18:29.699 --> 01:18:34.920
Sisko's face suckling from the clouds, like looking down on them

1776
01:18:34.920 --> 01:18:35.939
and it's a speech.

1777
01:18:36.060 --> 01:18:38.579
And what's the speech from?

1778
01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:39.659
Did you recognise the speech?

1779
01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:43.920
No, the speech, so the speech is from one of his jazz albums.

1780
01:18:43.979 --> 01:18:45.539
So it's not from a DSI episode.

1781
01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:51.600
And so Sirok listens to his jazz and and it was like, there's a

1782
01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:55.500
there's a bit that he said and he says to him, and then he asked

1783
01:18:55.500 --> 01:18:57.060
Avery Brooks, can we use this?

1784
01:18:57.119 --> 01:18:58.859
And Avery was like, of course you can, yeah.

1785
01:18:58.920 --> 01:19:00.000
And it's just so perfect.

1786
01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:04.319
Like, it's, yeah, so, but do you know, the line that killed me?

1787
01:19:04.380 --> 01:19:08.880
I mean, seeing Surok killed me, but the line that killed me was, um

1788
01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:10.439
what was it?

1789
01:19:10.500 --> 01:19:12.479
He's the dad that we all should have had or something like that.

1790
01:19:12.539 --> 01:19:14.640
It's not like he's the perfect dad.

1791
01:19:14.699 --> 01:19:16.619
He's the dad we all deserve or something like that.

1792
01:19:16.680 --> 01:19:20.100
And I, and I, do you know, it moved me so much because I, obviously

1793
01:19:20.100 --> 01:19:21.000
I watched that with my mum.

1794
01:19:21.060 --> 01:19:24.960
My dad was, and I remember watching that and I've always said, like

1795
01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:28.140
that, I would watch that and go, oh, I wish that was my dad, you

1796
01:19:28.140 --> 01:19:30.720
know, like, he's just the perfect dad.

1797
01:19:30.779 --> 01:19:33.899
And in fact, look at the stars.

1798
01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:38.399
Like they talk about him, um, um, you know, saving 1000000000s of

1799
01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:41.640
people and stuff and and stopping the Dominion war and all of that

1800
01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:42.239
sort of thing.

1801
01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:46.260
But the real thing is what he was like as a dad.

1802
01:19:46.319 --> 01:19:50.159
And because it's from Jake's point of view, I never thought I

1803
01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:51.060
would say that.

1804
01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:52.680
That's always the important thing. wasn't it?

1805
01:19:52.739 --> 01:19:53.699
Yeah, so good.

1806
01:19:53.760 --> 01:19:57.539
And remember we felt slightly bad that Jake gets shortchanged a

1807
01:19:57.539 --> 01:19:58.319
bit in the end.

1808
01:19:58.380 --> 01:20:02.699
You know, he goes back and visits Cassidy, but we don't bookend

1809
01:20:02.699 --> 01:20:05.939
the 1st episode by having see Jake.

1810
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:09.659
And this episode mends that in a way because Jake is convinced

1811
01:20:09.659 --> 01:20:11.819
that he's always been watched by him.

1812
01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:15.960
And then the episode at the very end says, yes, he has been, you

1813
01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:20.520
know, that I, and, you know, he's, he's now watching over Sam as

1814
01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:20.760
well.

1815
01:20:20.819 --> 01:20:25.260
So Sam has the makers who are demanding and unpleasant.

1816
01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:31.140
She learns from Avery, from Benjamin how to stand up to them and

1817
01:20:31.140 --> 01:20:34.920
she has a good dad who's watching her and looking after at the end

1818
01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:35.460
of the episode.

1819
01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:39.119
Like, and it's so...

1820
01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:39.720
I was so scared.

1821
01:20:39.779 --> 01:20:40.500
I was so scared.

1822
01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:42.840
They were going to work because I know we're going to fuck it.

1823
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:48.000
I love that scene of Jake and Kira and him...

1824
01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:49.199
Yeah, looking out.

1825
01:20:49.260 --> 01:20:52.140
I just think that's a, it's a really wistful, and the way it pulls

1826
01:20:52.140 --> 01:20:52.979
away from the station.

1827
01:20:53.039 --> 01:20:56.159
I just thought all that was just so perfect at the end of what you

1828
01:20:56.159 --> 01:20:56.579
live on.

1829
01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:58.439
I was like, oh, God, don't ruin this.

1830
01:20:58.500 --> 01:21:02.640
Yeah, and I think I think it's more than any other reason that

1831
01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:06.239
they hadn't dealt with Deep Space 9 isn't because they didn't like

1832
01:21:06.239 --> 01:21:07.619
it or anything like that.

1833
01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:11.279
Scoot. it's good and they didn't want to fuck it up.

1834
01:21:11.340 --> 01:21:12.300
There's nothing to fix.

1835
01:21:13.500 --> 01:21:16.020
Yeah, no, I mean, sometimes it's crappy.

1836
01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:17.880
But you know that Star Trek way.

1837
01:21:17.939 --> 01:21:23.819
The Tony Newsome thing where she says duet and and move along home

1838
01:21:23.880 --> 01:21:28.680
need one another for the show to work, which is so insightful.

1839
01:21:28.739 --> 01:21:31.439
The other thing, the word that she used to describe the 2 women in

1840
01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:35.699
the cast where she says, they're flippant, which I just thought

1841
01:21:35.699 --> 01:21:36.600
was flippant.

1842
01:21:36.600 --> 01:21:38.460
It's funny and authoritative.

1843
01:21:38.460 --> 01:21:41.399
That was great. how much that inspired her.

1844
01:21:41.460 --> 01:21:45.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah. is such a perfect word to describe them.

1845
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:46.380
So good.

1846
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:49.560
And all of the bit where she's talking about Avery.

1847
01:21:49.619 --> 01:21:54.720
She goes, just seeing like a black father and a black leader and

1848
01:21:54.720 --> 01:21:57.899
just how that is what Whoopi did with Ahura, right?

1849
01:21:57.960 --> 01:21:59.819
There's a black woman on the telly.

1850
01:21:59.819 --> 01:22:01.500
And she ain't a servant, you know?

1851
01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:06.659
Karis, who plays Sam says that she didn't know about Star Trek and

1852
01:22:06.659 --> 01:22:10.979
didn't think it was for her until she saw Sanequa on the screen.

1853
01:22:11.100 --> 01:22:13.979
You know, like all of that stuff.

1854
01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:15.119
Didn't she say to it?

1855
01:22:15.180 --> 01:22:15.899
You should do this.

1856
01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:17.640
No, I think she spoke to her as well, didn't she?

1857
01:22:17.699 --> 01:22:18.359
Oh, I don't know.

1858
01:22:18.420 --> 01:22:19.020
I'd agree.

1859
01:22:19.079 --> 01:22:19.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1860
01:22:19.859 --> 01:22:21.539
No, I think she convinced her to take the part.

1861
01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:24.060
She's like, you have to be a part of Star Trek.

1862
01:22:24.119 --> 01:22:24.359
Yeah.

1863
01:22:24.420 --> 01:22:25.079
Wow.

1864
01:22:25.079 --> 01:22:26.520
Yeah, just go, hang on.

1865
01:22:26.579 --> 01:22:29.220
I was going to try and pull up the stars and see if I can see

1866
01:22:29.220 --> 01:22:29.460
him.

1867
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:32.760
Oh, and just all a bit where they go in the room and there's the

1868
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:36.359
typewriter on the baseboard. the card, the in- the cards card.

1869
01:22:36.420 --> 01:22:37.560
Was there?

1870
01:22:37.619 --> 01:22:40.439
And I was like, this is deep dive stuff.

1871
01:22:40.500 --> 01:22:42.539
They really looked at this.

1872
01:22:42.539 --> 01:22:44.699
Because, I mean, they did it, didn't they?

1873
01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:47.460
I mean, they did do it twice on lower decks.

1874
01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:53.220
Um, you know, the 2 deep space 9 episodes on Lower Dags, um, but

1875
01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:58.380
they absolutely studiously leave Jake and Cisco out of it because

1876
01:22:58.380 --> 01:23:01.140
they don't want to spoil the ending and they don't know what to do

1877
01:23:01.140 --> 01:23:01.619
about it.

1878
01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:05.220
And I've seen people online saying, oh, I wish they'd said that

1879
01:23:05.220 --> 01:23:08.399
Ben had come back because they, you know.

1880
01:23:08.399 --> 01:23:11.340
No, no, no, no, no, that would have heard.

1881
01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:12.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1882
01:23:12.180 --> 01:23:13.739
That's where they left DS9.

1883
01:23:13.920 --> 01:23:15.479
Don't change it.

1884
01:23:15.539 --> 01:23:20.340
But what they do do at least is make it clear that Ben has been

1885
01:23:20.340 --> 01:23:23.520
watching over them and continues to watch over them, that Siri

1886
01:23:23.520 --> 01:23:24.300
believes that.

1887
01:23:24.359 --> 01:23:27.239
Well, I think I think Avery said that as well.

1888
01:23:27.420 --> 01:23:32.640
It was like, yeah, like, that was his input, is that he wanted it

1889
01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:36.899
to be that Jake didn't have a bad life because he went away.

1890
01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:38.220
Yeah, yeah.

1891
01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:39.659
Well, hang on.

1892
01:23:39.720 --> 01:23:41.460
There is a stars at the end of the episode.

1893
01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:42.659
No, not stars the cloud.

1894
01:23:42.720 --> 01:23:44.760
So the...

1895
01:23:44.760 --> 01:23:45.899
Oh, in the clouds, okay.

1896
01:23:45.899 --> 01:23:46.739
In the clouds.

1897
01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:48.119
It's really subtle.

1898
01:23:48.180 --> 01:23:50.579
It's not hugely visible.

1899
01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:55.260
But it's the final shot, and it's the shot of LA.

1900
01:23:55.260 --> 01:23:58.020
And it's definitely zooming in for a while.

1901
01:23:58.079 --> 01:23:59.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1902
01:23:59.460 --> 01:24:01.380
Oh, thank you, Avery.

1903
01:24:01.439 --> 01:24:02.460
Oh, yeah.

1904
01:24:02.520 --> 01:24:05.039
So just before hang out, you can just about see his face.

1905
01:24:05.699 --> 01:24:07.619
When in the middle?

1906
01:24:07.680 --> 01:24:08.159
Yeah.

1907
01:24:08.279 --> 01:24:10.079
Where am I supposed to be looking?

1908
01:24:10.140 --> 01:24:12.180
Oh, I can't see it.

1909
01:24:12.180 --> 01:24:14.159
It's like, I'm gonna get pretty sorry.

1910
01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:18.659
I've been looking at bloody Spock's face in the meteorite debris

1911
01:24:18.659 --> 01:24:21.300
from the, it's not in titles.

1912
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:25.920
Maybe someone, someone might have put it online with like a trace

1913
01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:26.340
around it.

1914
01:24:26.399 --> 01:24:33.000
No, no, so what someone did was that they faded from Avery to what

1915
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:37.020
they think was the publicity shot that they've taken the image

1916
01:24:37.020 --> 01:24:39.000
from and it was very clearly that.

1917
01:24:39.119 --> 01:24:40.800
So it was clearly there, I think.

1918
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:43.439
Oh, just a voice.

1919
01:24:43.500 --> 01:24:46.260
So that deep voice of his when it came in.

1920
01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:49.500
I love can interpret those words.

1921
01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:50.640
Oh, yes.

1922
01:24:51.239 --> 01:24:54.239
I'm just so Star Trek as well.

1923
01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:55.500
Yeah, perfect.

1924
01:24:55.619 --> 01:24:55.979
Yeah.

1925
01:24:55.979 --> 01:24:57.239
All right.

1926
01:24:57.300 --> 01:24:58.859
In that case, I'm persuaded.

1927
01:24:58.920 --> 01:24:59.699
We can do it later.

1928
01:24:59.760 --> 01:25:00.659
We'll do it later.

1929
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.000
Okay, although I think we may have a tag there, you know.

1930
01:25:03.060 --> 01:25:04.979
I think we might just...