WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:43:02

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back aboard the Starship Voyager this week.

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We are watching series 6, episode 23 Fury, which is a story by

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Berman and Braga, um, and a teleplay by Brian Fuller and Michael

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Taylor.

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So it's got a pretty good pedigree.

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And it's an episode where we bring back Kess, who we last saw

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nearly 3 years ago.

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How do you think it went?

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Terribly.

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And a shame because I love the gift.

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I think the gift is one of the best Voyager episodes.

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It's quiet, yeah, but it is the most female centred episode of 90s

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trek you're gonna find.

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It's basically all about.

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Cares 7, Janeway and Balana, with the men barely getting a look

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in.

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So naturally, it's better than your average Voyager episode.

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I really, really didn't like this.

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It sort of started in a bad place for me, and as it progressed, I

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just got more angry and annoyed at these writers that know these

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characters.

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Somehow forgetting what makes any of them tick.

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It really frustrated me.

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I'm like, do you even remember, cares, you know, the character you

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created and wrote for for 3.5 years.

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You're bringing her back for a grand finale, exit wave.

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And this isn't who she is.

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This isn't who she is.

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And on top of that, you've got Jennifer Lien, who's had some

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issues since leaving Star Trek Voyager with the law and just in

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life in general, who phoning it in doesn't even begin to describe

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what she's doing in this episode.

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It's no kind of a performance.

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Could I very quickly talk to you though, about 90s trick in

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general, right?

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And just sort of the levels of bad that you can get across the 4

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shows.

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Is that right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Why not?

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Let's do that.

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When TNG is bad. yeah.

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Generally, it's hugely entertaining, right?

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We've done some bad TNG.

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Like skin of evil.

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I mean, that dismal one where they all turned into monsters in

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episodes in series 7.

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What's that called again?

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Oh, that's brilliant, Genesis.

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But it's sort of bad, right?

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But it's very funny to watch.

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So TNG usually gets away with it just by turning it into some

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terrible B movie that's enjoyable to watch, but bad.

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DS9 is generally bad.

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I find when...

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When it's not DS9. when it's trying to be the other shows and it

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doesn't really conform in that way.

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So a lot of season one and some of season 2 where they're trying

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to do TNG knockoffs, it just doesn't feel like DS9 and so it's bad

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in that sort.

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When DS9 finds this group, it's generally kind of good, good or

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great.

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Enterprise is just dull shit when it's bad.

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Like, it's just really boring with no substance whatsoever.

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We've recently done vanishing and Oasis.

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You remember Strange New World.

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I mean there's nothing to them at all.

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Whereas Voyager, when Voyager is bad, right?

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it's really fucking stupid that's what annoys me.

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And that's episodes such as what's the one where Tom Paris turns

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into a salamander threshold.

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Yeah, course oblivion, you know, just dismally, stupid episodes of

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television.

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That just gets steadily more stupid as they go along.

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And I'm put in fury in there because it tries to tell some form of

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sophisticated time travel story.

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I don't think any of it makes any sense and you may tell me as we

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go through, well, yes, actually there is a logic to all of this.

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But when the thing that's holding this episode together is the

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motivation behind the character.

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And what they're doing, it just falls apart, the whole thing. is

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stupid.

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I actually found myself on the 1st watch enjoying it and I also

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enjoyed it the 2nd time through.

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With the understanding that no one is able satisfactorily to

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explain why Kessey's so angry, where the fury in the title comes

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from.

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Not even cares.

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No, it makes no sense at all.

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Braga has no idea why it's happening.

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No one knows.

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And so I think the more that you like the gift, the less you're

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going to like this, because the gift is beautiful, like it's a

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lovely departure.

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It's exactly what we want.

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You've got Kate, and I read an interview where she said that she

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was really distressed that Jennifer was leaving and playing

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Catherine Janeway being distressed that Kess was leaving.

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She said, the character's feelings were a little bit too close to

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my own, and so it was all a little bit too raw.

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And that, you know, that incredibly hurried way she just has to go

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and how everything sort of cuts short, but...

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Remember, all those powers are short.

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It's like puberty.

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I'm sort of raging out of her and she's got to get, but the scene

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where she goes to Janeway and says, like, I think I need to go.

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It's so understated.

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It's beautiful. it's not at all what they're doing in this

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episode.

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And so there's no justification for why she behaves this way.

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It's actually unpleasant to watch.

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And I think, I think Jennifer struggled to play it.

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Not just necessarily because she has personal issues or there were

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things about the show that we're weighing on her or whatever, but

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it's just like, how do I even play this because this is not the

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character that I played for 3 years, that this is nothing like

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her.

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And she never gets to play that character.

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No, even at the end, when this is resolved, right, and she's going

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off and she's in the transport room and poor Ethan Phillips, he's

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trying to give her something.

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Oh, sweetie, I've brought you something, you know, to rekindle

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something of that case that we saw before.

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No, Lian's not interested at all.

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She just goes, oh, all right, t-rah.

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Get us on the transporter pad.

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I think there's one line that's really actually quite good, and it

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plays that quite well.

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Oh, why couldn't this have just been Kez comes back and she's had

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a wonderful time exploring the universe and we just have a nice

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fun episode where we catch up with her.

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That would have been so much better.

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So what I kept thinking was, imagine if this had been a season one

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episode where we saw Kess from the future, come back and try to

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destroy the ship.

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And in that case, does it work better as a season one episode

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because the bulk of the action takes place during season one, just

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2 months after they arrive in the Delta Quadrant.

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And actually that sort of idea where a sort of twisted dark mirror

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version of Kes comes back and they have to remind her what it was

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really like for her to be on the ship.

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But even that, even that I don't think would have worked.

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But I think it would have been less offensive.

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But what I what I did find was, if I'm going to say, look, they've

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had an idea.

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It can't possibly work.

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It traduces the character in all sorts of ways.

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They can't justify it in dialogue.

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So the core of the thing doesn't work.

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I still think that as a Star Trek episode, as an episode of TV

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where things happen and there's a plot, I actually think it does a

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pretty good job and it doesn't do the usual voyager thing of

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wasting time or having characters explain things that we've just

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seen, although I think there's probably one example of that.

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Generally speaking, Cass has a plan and we see her carry it out.

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She's given a chance to interact with all of the characters, which

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is kind of what we want to see.

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And there are proper stakes that are not cheated. cheat our way

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out of.

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I'm not for 12nd do I believe this mad plot to get the Vedians to

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take over the ship and for her to kidnap.

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I've never invested in any of it because I'm like, okay, will this

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clearly never happened?

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None of this ever happened. all going to be reset at the end of

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the episode.

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But most importantly of all, it is that central performance

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because do you remember Warlord, right?

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She was vivid as hell.

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She's running around rooms tearing off bloody things off the wall

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snogging men and women and having the best time chewing the

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scenery, Shatner style.

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Yeah, she's just so contained and quiet and meek, and it's no kind

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of a villain, and that's what they're trying to portray her as

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even when she's sort of being clandestine, you know, and

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pretending to be the good cares.

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There's no sort of look into the camera and winking or anything.

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Nothing that would make any of that stuff really fun to watch.

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It's just baffling They're clearly not going for that. and I don't

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know why.

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I don't know who thought it was a good idea.

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Well, Berman and Braga thought it was a good idea.

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And I think it has something to do with Braga as well, because

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Braga is much, much, more, I think, at home with enterprise and

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TNG, where the primary focus is the weird spaceshit that's

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happening and the characters are less important.

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And he's come up with some weird spaceship that he wants to do.

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It's not terrible.

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You know, Baraga stuff is never terrible.

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Um, but it isn't any of the character stuff that we started off

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with.

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And I think taking us back to season one of Voyager, which I

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really liked.

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That was one of the things I enjoyed about the episode was the

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chance to see how different it was back in season one. really

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isn't that different.

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Okay, the sets look exactly the same.

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There's a few haircuts that are different and the doctor's on a

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screen.

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That is it.

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Well, but you'd forgotten all of that stuff, and that's done

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better later in episodes like worst case scenario and stuff, isn't

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it?

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Where we get to see what the sheep used to be like.

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But this does remind us of the part of Voyager that I enjoyed a

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lot that season one.

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Yeah, remember when the show was good.

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Oh no, we had Muse last week.

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You know, it's not too bad at the moment.

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No, no, no.

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I mean, like, it's not terrible at this point, but all of that

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stuff, you know, having Samantha Wildman in it, having Tuvok being

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called Lieutenant, having the doctor on the screen, having the

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doctor being more brash, you know, people being rude to the doctor

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the McKee stuff is still important somehow.

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All of that stuff, I think, is a little bit more kind of

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interesting and it's nice to see all that stuff.

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Again.

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We see we see Carey, don't we?

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We see Joe... you know, your fabulous Janeway Hair that you love.

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I like that.

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So, you know, like, I think there's stuff there that is not

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terrible.

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But if you can't buy the central thing and you absolutely can't

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because it's nonsense, then it's going to sabotage the episode and

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make it less fun to watch.

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The worst fair, right?

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And I just can't believe they tried to pull this off as

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convincing.

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The worst bit is where, you know, they managed to stop Kez in the

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past and go, right.

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This is what's going to happen in the future, all right?

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And then we cut to the future.

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And she's like, oh my god, I forgot that we have this conversation

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in the past.

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What?

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Like, what the fuck?

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But isn't the simple solution that they changed the future and

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they hadn't had that conversation?

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Do you know what I mean?

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That conversation hadn't happened when Kess comes on board the

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ship, but then she made it happen.

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Do you know what I mean in her past and that changed her past.

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It's not, oh, I forgot, which is so stupid.

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But then wouldn't that have made it happen all the time?

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Oh, I don't know, it was so stupid though.

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And just the fact that they try and pull it off.

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I was like, 0 yeah, we did have that conversation, didn't we, in

249
00:12:38.580 --> 00:12:39.000
the past?

250
00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:39.779
So bad.

251
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.259
But there's a terrible solution to that, which they don't seem to

252
00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:43.740
hit on.

253
00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:44.639
It's very strange.

254
00:12:45.299 --> 00:12:48.539
Well, I can't wait.

255
00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:52.799
I mean, I'll tell you what, there was some fairly good special

256
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.879
effects in this, I thought. but also some pretty dismal ones as

257
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.120
well.

258
00:12:57.179 --> 00:13:01.320
There's a bit where Kez walks down the corridor so clearly matted

259
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.320
as the sort of corridors are exploding around her.

260
00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:07.379
But I think that shot is actually pretty great.

261
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:09.899
And I think the shot where part of the hull gets ripped off as

262
00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:10.139
well.

263
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:15.179
And it's clearly being done to contrast with what they're able to

264
00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:16.019
in series one.

265
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:17.100
Do you know what I mean?

266
00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:21.120
Like, to see that sort of stuff happening, you know, in the 1st

267
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.559
few months of Voyager.

268
00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:25.200
There's an attempt to do that and I think that works as well.

269
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:30.960
More than anything, it is the emotional, the lack of an emotional

270
00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:32.279
connection to the episode.

271
00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:34.320
That is the most baffling thing of all.

272
00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:37.320
In the, this is in built.

273
00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:40.919
Yeah, she was somebody we were invested in for 3.5 years.

274
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:45.659
It should be a given that when she comes back, we feel something.

275
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.159
And I just got nothing.

276
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:48.600
Nothing at all.

277
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:53.940
When she turned up on the screen, looking hideous, I was like, what

278
00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:54.480
is happening?

279
00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:56.460
Yeah. have we done?

280
00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:57.240
Yeah.

281
00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:59.700
I mean, think about Wesley coming back a couple of times.

282
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:04.259
Think about the game or the 1st duty, you know. like those were

283
00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:04.860
great.

284
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:06.240
Those were great moments.

285
00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:09.720
And this was just completely blown.

286
00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:10.799
Yeah.

287
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:14.100
Just for the sake of, I think it's one of those ones where you

288
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:18.960
have the incredible visual at the end of the cold open and Rag has

289
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:20.940
gone that, you know, that sick.

290
00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.840
We need to do that, but is then completely unable to construct an

291
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.600
episode that justifies it because it's nonsense.

292
00:14:27.659 --> 00:14:30.899
Maybe about poor you go, oh, let's think up a different gray

293
00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:32.940
visual. not do that.

294
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:33.960
That's right.

295
00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:38.340
Well, I'm ready to watch 45 minutes of very stupid television.

296
00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:40.379
Let's do that.

297
00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.399
We always do. especially when we're in the 90s.

298
00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:48.720
As you'll notice, Nathan's added a special stupidity tab to the

299
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.500
randomiser.

300
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:53.759
That's right, you 2 can select the 90s tab now and just watch

301
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:54.899
those 4 shows.

302
00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.059
Oh, no way. sorry.

303
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.879
All the right wingers telling us. is when Star Trek was at its

304
00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:00.480
absolute best.

305
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:02.759
Well, let's find out, shall we?

306
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.500
Let's see.

307
00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:15.899
All right, I will count us in. 543, two, one, and we're off.

308
00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:17.700
Ta da.

309
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.559
Voyager in space.

310
00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:20.340
Here we go.

311
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:21.960
As usual.

312
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:22.620
Okay.

313
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:24.240
Oh, Jane Wade looks pissed.

314
00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:29.700
Yeah, so I don't think this scene works because it's stupid and I

315
00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:33.360
think we know that he's not being dressed down.

316
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:34.919
Do you know what I mean?

317
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.620
Like, and is she being mean to him?

318
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:39.960
Is she making him think he's being dressed down?

319
00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:45.960
Like, they shouldn't be playing it quite as, as, as broad as

320
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:46.139
this.

321
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.059
We'll keep using that word.

322
00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:51.480
Now, but what does work is when she brandishes the cake and that

323
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:53.340
beautiful Kate smile was on her face.

324
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.399
And you're like, oh, I'll give you anything. you know?

325
00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:00.299
And when he says it was a fire hazard and she smiles.

326
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.779
Also, the way she rolls her eyes when she gets summoned to the

327
00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:04.080
bridge.

328
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.500
She goes some great pain in this. blow out the candle for me

329
00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:07.980
please.

330
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.879
Just for me.

331
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:10.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah. adorable.

332
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:11.399
That is great.

333
00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:16.200
And what's really good is when we go back to this scene later, it's

334
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:16.740
a different take.

335
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.139
They don't just use the same tape.

336
00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:20.759
They don't just use the same thing.

337
00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:22.019
They get them to do it again.

338
00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:25.559
I think this sort of rock pool here is what Voyager calls humour

339
00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:26.039
you know.

340
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.360
Yeah.

341
00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:30.179
Yeah, but very dismal, isn't it?

342
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.299
Actually, that cake doesn't look very edible.

343
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:33.720
Does it?

344
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:34.500
It looks like a candle.

345
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:35.100
No.

346
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.679
Yeah, yeah, I don't know why it's shiny and blue.

347
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:42.600
It's been spray painted, I think.

348
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:44.100
That's the sort of the silver platter.

349
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:44.940
It looks like a hat.

350
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:48.840
Put the hat on too, Mark.

351
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.879
Put the candle on your head.

352
00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:55.559
But hooray that they've actually remembered that Jane Ware and

353
00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.740
Schuvok have some kind of a friendship, which has long been

354
00:16:58.740 --> 00:16:59.700
abandoned in the show.

355
00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:06.480
Well, again, it's because the 2 main characters here are Tuvok and

356
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.900
Janeway, and so we have to introduce them at the beginning because

357
00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:13.259
Tuvok's going to be a focus character because he's the one who can

358
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:14.880
detect the time thing.

359
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:19.380
Um, and he's the one, he's the one who is the biggest source of

360
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:23.579
the difference between season 6, Voyager and season one Voyager.

361
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.700
Oh, boy, look at Paul Cares on the screen.

362
00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:28.859
Dear, oh dear.

363
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.519
Now that's what, 20 a day, and a bottle of whiskey's got to do to

364
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.259
you, all right, in the intervening years.

365
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:43.619
So, Kes, Jennifer is 20, uh, when the show starts, she's 25 here

366
00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:48.960
um, she doesn't, that's so young, and it had such visibility.

367
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:52.259
Maybe maybe that's what happened then.

368
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.599
Maybe it was just a bit...

369
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.940
They all said about her in those 1st 3 years.

370
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.160
She didn't integrate with any of the other actors.

371
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.240
When they weren't performing, she went off on her own and she

372
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.759
didn't, she wasn't involved in like the group activities.

373
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:06.960
Oh, here we go.

374
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:07.319
Look.

375
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:10.019
Yeah, see, I think this looks amazing.

376
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.859
It is fake, but I mean, it's Voyager in, in, you know, what year

377
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:14.460
is it?

378
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:16.079
1999 or something?

379
00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:17.519
2000 and something?

380
00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:21.480
Um, you know, like it's, it's, I think it's as good as they can do

381
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:23.160
and it is as strike good as they can do.

382
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:23.880
It's so strong.

383
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:27.660
I'm like focussing more on the fact that the special effect

384
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:31.200
doesn't work than the special effect itself, which is a shame

385
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.140
because the actual the corridors blowing in looks incredible.

386
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:35.640
Yeah, I think it looks amazing.

387
00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:38.039
And there's practical light on her, reflecting it.

388
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:39.599
Like, I think it is a pretty good shot.

389
00:18:39.660 --> 00:18:42.720
But it's such an irresistible shot that they put this stupid

390
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:43.440
episode.

391
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:46.500
You know, they created this episode to justify it.

392
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:47.579
But immediately it just doesn't work.

393
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:50.759
My brain is working overtime going, well, why is she doing this?

394
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:52.259
Why has she come back on board?

395
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:53.460
Why is she tearing it apart?

396
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:55.019
Like, and guess what?

397
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:56.880
We'll never know.

398
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:57.420
I know.

399
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.240
Because she can't even articulate it.

400
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:01.319
It's so dumb.

401
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:02.700
Like, it's so dumb.

402
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.000
Yeah, like if she'd done something bad.

403
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:08.160
I'm trying to think, what would I have done?

404
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:10.259
If I really, really wanted to do this episode?

405
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.519
Has she killed a bunch of people by mistake because her powers get

406
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:15.900
out of control?

407
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.799
Is she angry that she was encouraged to do this?

408
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:21.359
The big species she gets.

409
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:24.480
Nathan, is that she goes, you took me away from my home.

410
00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:25.500
No, they didn't.

411
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:26.700
In caretaker.

412
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:31.859
You came to Janeway and had a 5 minute speech where you tried to

413
00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:33.119
convince her to take you.

414
00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:34.140
Yeah.

415
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:35.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

416
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:36.599
Brandon, you wrote that.

417
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.859
Dude, did you forget?

418
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.700
Well, and Brian Fuller is the one who came up with the idea of how

419
00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:43.380
to write Kes out as well.

420
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:45.599
You know, he's Did he write the gigs?

421
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:47.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

422
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.519
Well, he either has a story credit or he writes it, but he's in

423
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:54.839
Michael Taylor, for God's sakes, he gave us counterpoint, you know

424
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:55.799
like he can write it.

425
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:57.420
Well, that's what I'm saying.

426
00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:01.140
I don't think that this is a badly structured or badly written

427
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:02.339
episode of TV.

428
00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:06.299
I just think it's a really, really badly misjudged one.

429
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:08.880
All of this stuff, I think, works really well.

430
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.579
If it was someone else came aboard the ship.

431
00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.880
I mean, I was watching the...

432
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.839
Angry Harry Kim?

433
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:20.160
The sort of the labyrinthine plot unfold and I was just getting

434
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:21.420
more and more angry.

435
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.039
So let's see, this all makes sense.

436
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:26.279
Yeah, I think that, you know, like I like the frock, I like her

437
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:29.940
dress, you know, I think that Michael Westmore's ageing makeup is

438
00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:34.079
shit and was always going to be shit and I don't know why they

439
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:35.099
thought that was a good idea.

440
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:38.400
It sort of looks like a load of latex hanging off her face, doesn't

441
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:38.579
it?

442
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.279
It's very odd. where you can see the things around her eye

443
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.119
sockets.

444
00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:42.839
Do you know what I mean?

445
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:45.660
Where they've built up around her eye socket, so she looks like an

446
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:46.559
alien, you know?

447
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:50.700
This is the future I've got to look forward to, then count me

448
00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:50.940
out.

449
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.579
I mean, that's pretty cool.

450
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:55.019
Now, she wasn't in the shop then.

451
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.319
She burst in all the walls and that was the way she stopped the

452
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.279
guards from stopping her.

453
00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:03.720
Oh, look, the great meeting of 7 as she is now and cares.

454
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:07.440
I think she just, she goes, get out of my way replacement.

455
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:08.880
State your intentions.

456
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:12.180
Well, I don't think I don't think that they get to interact, do

457
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:12.480
they?

458
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:15.119
Because they're in A plot and B plot, they don't really interact

459
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:15.480
much.

460
00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.400
I think they're in the same room at some point in the gift.

461
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:21.359
Is this the only way that she can go back in time then?

462
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.460
Uh, well, she wants to go back to Voyager.

463
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.359
So she wants to go back onboard Voyager in order to punish for her

464
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.359
to when she was on a camper and go, do you know what?

465
00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:34.859
Don't leave. don't.

466
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:35.279
Yeah, yeah.

467
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:36.119
Bet she needs to.

468
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.500
We wouldn't have an episode then, would we?

469
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:38.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:41.339
Yeah, and I thought using the warp core, using her power to do the

471
00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:42.660
warp core, all of that's fine.

472
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:43.559
Do you know what I mean?

473
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.079
Like if she has special magic powers.

474
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:49.799
I think killing B'lana and not...

475
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.660
Yeah, but that was the point where I was like out of it.

476
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.079
So that there's a reset here because we're not killing B'lana in

477
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:56.279
this stupid episode, are we?

478
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:58.680
But that's that's normal, though.

479
00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.799
You know that everything's going to be okay.

480
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:02.940
Every 5 minutes.

481
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.380
No, but it's a time travel thing and so you know there's a way out

482
00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:07.920
of it.

483
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:09.900
But the big thing is how do they get out of it?

484
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.859
We do this so often on Voyager, these boring time travel

485
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:14.460
episodes.

486
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.000
You know, we did relativity last year.

487
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:20.700
Next year we're doing it all again in the finale.

488
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:22.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

489
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:28.500
How many times do we go back in time to when Voyager was good?

490
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:33.660
And you know what?

491
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:34.440
God bless her.

492
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:38.519
She's a little uh, I don't want to say chunkier, but there is, her

493
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:39.660
frame's a little bit different.

494
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.660
It's like, oh, obviously, it's been a couple of years since the

495
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:43.259
original.

496
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.460
But I just got nothing from her as the younger cares at all.

497
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.180
No, and like, I think she's playing that properly because she's

498
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:55.259
like uncomfortable in this role because she is angry old, Kes.

499
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.059
But it's not fun to watch.

500
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.460
Why bring her back and get her to play someone else?

501
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:01.200
Someone completely unlike cares?

502
00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:02.700
So is this the past?

503
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.759
I'm sorry, Belano's hair did not look like that in series one.

504
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:08.339
Yeah, it's meant to be the past.

505
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.720
Do you remember she had really short air in series one?

506
00:23:12.779 --> 00:23:14.700
And the makeup was totally different.

507
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:19.799
But what they did was give her curly hair in season 6 and straight

508
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:21.900
hair in season one.

509
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:23.880
So they did, that's the hairstyle.

510
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:25.859
You know what it is, right?

511
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:27.599
You've got the doctor come in here, right?

512
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:30.960
There was that wonderful relationship that they had in series one

513
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.440
to three.

514
00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:34.200
But because of their stupid fucking premise that they've kicked

515
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:34.319
in.

516
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:38.279
We can't return to that because she's behaving in a sort of

517
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:39.059
suspicious way.

518
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.279
So there's no feeling in these scenes at all.

519
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:41.940
No.

520
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:44.279
But, but you do get Bob.

521
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:47.940
You do get the best Robert doing his season one acting and that is

522
00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:48.599
actually fun.

523
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.640
Like, I'm happy to see that, you know.

524
00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:52.680
I'm just happy to see him.

525
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:55.980
Well, yeah, but all of this stuff that's been abandoned as the

526
00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:57.359
show has gone on is all back.

527
00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:59.579
Did you say undergoes?

528
00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:00.299
chosen a name.

529
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.819
I thought maybe pasta, you know, something like that.

530
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.799
Do you know what he settles on?

531
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:05.339
Do you remember?

532
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.059
A mighty name, may I say?

533
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:13.019
Well, yeah, I don't think that sticks, though.

534
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.660
If he's not called Joe in Academy.

535
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.980
I am out, all right?

536
00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:20.759
Oh, here we go.

537
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.200
In the airport expay.

538
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:23.460
Yeah.

539
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.220
Do you remember when Kez in series 2 Cold Fire?

540
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.000
She made all the plants come alive in her wonderful sequence.

541
00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:33.180
Yeah, yeah, but you're right.

542
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.480
There's something because she's playing this character because of

543
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:37.440
this stupid premise.

544
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:41.099
There's no real pleasure in seeing her here, is there?

545
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:43.920
No, it's so strange.

546
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:45.240
Yeah, yeah.

547
00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:48.900
Poor, poor, innocent season one cares is knocked out and shoved in

548
00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:49.319
a cupboard.

549
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:50.579
Yeah, shoved in a drawer.

550
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.779
That's right Oh, they still can't quite do 2 of the same actor in

551
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:55.200
one shot.

552
00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:56.279
No no.

553
00:24:56.339 --> 00:25:00.180
I mean, they can, but they spend all their money on blowing up the

554
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:00.660
corridor.

555
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.339
Ooh, what is?

556
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:05.220
Look how long that bit of food's been sitting there, that prop.

557
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:08.160
I mean, that Jesus concealed all over the burger.

558
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.660
Oh, here we go.

559
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:13.859
Voyager banter.

560
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.920
Uh, yeah, the greasy.

561
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:19.680
Why does he call her sweeting instead of sweeting?

562
00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:20.759
sweetie.

563
00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:25.019
I think that's just the spell, the stupid, um, I think he calls

564
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:25.799
her sweetie.

565
00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:28.140
I think the subs are wrong.

566
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:31.799
Oh, look, they're remembering how Janeway was just obsessed with

567
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:33.000
coffee in series one.

568
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:33.480
Do you remember?

569
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:34.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

570
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:38.819
She walked into the mess all that time and she went, black coffee

571
00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:39.359
black now.

572
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:41.880
It's like, oh, well, I've got some things that are coffee black

573
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:42.660
now.

574
00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:50.460
Well, I mean, they do in prodigy, they do kind of land on that as

575
00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:52.980
an important character point as well, I think.

576
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.000
She's absolutely convinced that there's coffee in that nebula in

577
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.200
one episode, you know.

578
00:25:58.259 --> 00:25:58.859
That's a great line.

579
00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:00.180
It's a great one.

580
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.019
But yeah, she's in sick bake, coffee in the nebula.

581
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:04.920
Season one man.

582
00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:05.579
It was good times.

583
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.599
And so once this, this doesn't go anywhere.

584
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:11.759
See, this is unpleasant to watch, isn't it?

585
00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:12.180
I think.

586
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.039
Well, she's not charmed by him.

587
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.119
Because she should be.

588
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:19.920
No, and she just, like, just says now, can I have the coffee?

589
00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.619
And because she wants to kill them all.

590
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:27.059
Like, she's there to kill everyone and it's just like, what, like

591
00:26:27.059 --> 00:26:27.359
what?

592
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.220
You know what it feels like?

593
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:33.240
It feels like they have written an episode, right, that forces

594
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.920
Jennifer Lien in the situation that she's actually in in real life

595
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.000
and that is coming back into this group of people after several

596
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.380
years of being away and everybody's moved on and feeling utterly

597
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:47.880
dislocated and uncomfortable.

598
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.940
And they've actually written that into the episode for some

599
00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:51.240
reason.

600
00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:55.920
But the, the version of this, which is, which takes place in

601
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.160
season one, I don't think suffers from these problems.

602
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:00.180
Do you know what I mean?

603
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.880
Like they could have done this plot, I think.

604
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.420
Oh, whatever we'd all be going, my God, is this all coming in the

605
00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:06.660
future?

606
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.319
But you wouldn't because we changed the future so that it never

607
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:10.740
happened.

608
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:12.480
So do you know what I mean?

609
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.079
But that would be that would work.

610
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.700
Maybe it works in season one.

611
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:19.259
Do you know what I mean?

612
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:20.759
Imagine that, old Kes.

613
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.339
Because remember she's young, we know she's 9 years old.

614
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:24.240
We go on and on.

615
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.039
She's got a nine-year lifespan.

616
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:28.920
So, you know, we were all wondering what, she's going to look a

617
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:31.259
state by season seven, you know, what's going to happen?

618
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.000
I just remembered, you know, relativity.

619
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:34.799
You know, to try and traffic one in series five.

620
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:37.740
It's the Penol maps. is a great episode where 7 goes back in

621
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:37.980
time.

622
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:39.960
That goes back to season one as well.

623
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:41.220
Yeah, okay.

624
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

625
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:43.859
So maybe it's a thing that they do.

626
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:46.319
Oh, I'm so sorry.

627
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.119
I've just poured coffee all over your pad.

628
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:49.440
I mean what are you doing?

629
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:53.519
Yeah, but I do like her reaction.

630
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.839
I do like a reaction.

631
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:55.920
But yeah, does this work?

632
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:59.160
Why doesn't she just go back in time, right?

633
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.079
Knock out little cares.

634
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:02.400
Take her away.

635
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.619
That's what she's doing.

636
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.680
Yeah, but why did she kill them as well?

637
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:08.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

638
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.299
Yeah, because and you know what, right?

639
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.940
You could have Samantha Wildman in Voyager anyway.

640
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.799
You don't have to go back to series one.

641
00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:18.720
She's still around. know.

642
00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:25.019
I know, but I think having her, having Joe Carey, um, you remember

643
00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:27.420
when we almost had semi-regulars in the show?

644
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:28.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

645
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:29.579
Do you know what I mean?

646
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:30.960
That's a season one thing.

647
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:33.960
Like, it feels more like season one, we're calling Tuvok

648
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:35.579
Lieutenant instead of Commander.

649
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:40.440
Um, all of that stuff. and the Vedians, which have to be the most

650
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.839
successful, the better aliens.

651
00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:46.500
And we get them back for the last time. you know.

652
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:47.460
That's a good.

653
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.519
I mean, I love the bit where the clamp grabs Voyager.

654
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:53.640
It starts sort of gnashing through the hole.

655
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:54.539
That's quite cool.

656
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.119
In a way that they couldn't really have achieved in season one

657
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.880
quite as well, you know, like I'd like that.

658
00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:02.220
Oh, here's button hair, Jane Way.

659
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.779
Yeah, yeah, I like that.

660
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.339
It's not my favourite hair.

661
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.460
I know that's great, isn't it?

662
00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:13.079
They did well to last as long as they did.

663
00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:14.759
It was season four.

664
00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:20.759
Oh, I love her later hair when she goes very sort of late 90s.

665
00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:23.579
Well, yeah, his American lady hair.

666
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.460
I like when she has the long ponytail at the back.

667
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.160
So it looks like this from the front, but it's long at the back.

668
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:30.359
That's my favourite hair.

669
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:34.319
I mean, when she takes her hair down in series one and it just

670
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:35.640
flows all down her shoulders.

671
00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:37.380
She looks so feminine.

672
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:38.400
Yeah.

673
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:39.660
Beautiful, wonderful.

674
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:41.640
Where she just says in resolution.

675
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:43.440
Do you remember when she came out in the gown?

676
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.180
No wonder Chakoto couldn't resist her.

677
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:45.960
Wow.

678
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:46.740
Yeah, no, exactly.

679
00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:49.019
Do you know what?

680
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.240
I was sorry, there's nothing about this episode, but I was

681
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:55.079
watching a clip the other day about from a convention where

682
00:29:55.079 --> 00:30:00.180
Mulgrew and Beltran are talking about resolutions, and Jakotay

683
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.720
goes, and I was trying everything to seduce her down on this

684
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.500
planet, and she was obsessed with this fucking monkey all the

685
00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:07.740
time.

686
00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:12.180
Okay, it's like, it was a really interesting little monkey.

687
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:13.200
What can I say?

688
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:17.579
They have great fun taking the Mickey out of these episodes, you

689
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:17.819
know.

690
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.319
That's awesome.

691
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.839
It's a shame Liam's had such a terrible time.

692
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:22.920
She could come and talk about this.

693
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:24.720
Yeah, exactly.

694
00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:25.500
Exactly.

695
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.019
It's very sad.

696
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:32.819
So we have, I mean, we have this thing too, which gives us

697
00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:33.900
interesting visuals.

698
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.420
And one of the things that struck me because I've watched some

699
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.079
90s.

700
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:41.220
I've watched some, you know, a Kurtzman trek this week and how

701
00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:45.480
much more interesting space looks than it used to look in early

702
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:47.099
90s trek.

703
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.400
And so here it's taking place against these vacuoles and we have

704
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:54.180
to do some special space things or whatever, but it just gives us

705
00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:57.359
some more interesting visual, um, which is something.

706
00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:02.460
Tellingly, you know, Tom Paris and Harry Kim, look exactly the

707
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:05.400
same in series one as they did in series six.

708
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:07.079
They don't know any different at all.

709
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:10.319
I think the worst Robert has less hair.

710
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:15.539
Um, I think his hairline is been moving back.

711
00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:20.460
And again, like this is well structured in that we get to give her

712
00:31:20.460 --> 00:31:21.839
time with everyone.

713
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:25.980
So time with the doctor time with Neelix time with Catherine time

714
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:27.119
with Tom.

715
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.640
All of those major relationships.

716
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:31.740
But what do we get from that?

717
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.079
Because she's being duplicitous.

718
00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:34.920
Exactly.

719
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.980
Do you know what I mean?

720
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.400
Like they're giving us in a sense what we want to see, but they've

721
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:43.980
fucked it up because of the basic stupid premise.

722
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.400
And because she's sort of doing all these weird, nefarious

723
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.279
technobabbly things, they're not talking about their relationships

724
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.680
you know, which absolutely they should be doing.

725
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:56.400
Well, because it's the past, you know, like that's the thing.

726
00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:58.259
I think that's that thing.

727
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.119
I know, but it's not our path.

728
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:01.559
This is us catching up with her now.

729
00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:04.380
So we should be reminded of all the great things about her

730
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:06.420
character and all of the great relations.

731
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.140
Well, not great.

732
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.000
I mean, she was never that great, but...

733
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.880
I mean, she's, I like her. positive things about her.

734
00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:12.359
Yeah.

735
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:13.980
She's got that...

736
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:15.299
Naomi Wildman.

737
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:20.220
Always very exciting when little moppets turn up, isn't it?

738
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:21.720
Yeah, yeah.

739
00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:27.599
So, Naomi Wildman is, um, half caterion.

740
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:35.519
And that name is used, in fact, for the aliens from the game.

741
00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:40.200
Um, so they're different, aren't they?

742
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:41.039
They've got different...

743
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.839
Oh, that was so great.

744
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.640
Remember where 90s trek was really great.

745
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:45.779
Yeah, yeah.

746
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:47.700
But then this, do you know what I mean?

747
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.359
Like, again, it's just a reminder. of where we've come from and

748
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:52.859
apparently we had one last year.

749
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.740
It's been forgotten about.

750
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.779
Oh, we died, did he?

751
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:58.319
Oh, sorry.

752
00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:59.579
Two episodes ago.

753
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:01.920
Oh, was it?

754
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.640
In series 6?

755
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:04.440
Yeah, in Friendship one.

756
00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:06.839
He comes back in friendship one, just a couple of... series

757
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:07.319
seven.

758
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:08.640
That's the end of series seven.

759
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:09.240
Yeah.

760
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:10.559
Oh, okay.

761
00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:12.000
Oh okay.

762
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:12.779
So we see him in this.

763
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:16.920
We see him once in series seven, but between maybe the end of two

764
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.380
and this he's never been again once.

765
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.339
So he's in, so they bring him back in series 7 to just kill him, is

766
00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:23.700
that right?

767
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:27.839
Okay, that's right.

769
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:29.460
Even Joe Hogan got better than that.

770
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.619
Do you remember where they found his bones in the cave, those

771
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:32.400
dinosaurs?

772
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:33.180
Yeah, that's great.

773
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.400
Oh, look at this. tearing apart the quarters.

774
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:38.400
She's even doing that half-hearted. only knocked a chair over.

775
00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:39.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

776
00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:40.259
Yeah.

777
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:40.859
That's right.

778
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.299
She was tearing the corridor off before.

779
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:43.799
Now she's just pushing some chairs.

780
00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:46.140
Would you were tearing that set to pieces of warlord?

781
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:46.680
Give it some.

782
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:52.259
But if this had been a season one episode.

783
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:56.819
The more I watch this, the more I think this is a banger if it's

784
00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:57.539
in season one.

785
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:01.140
Unfortunately, I've got something unfortunate to tell you, it's a

786
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:01.920
series 6 episode.

787
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:03.839
And it's terrible as a result.

788
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.220
Okay.

789
00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:07.619
Look how grisly the patians are.

790
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:13.019
So this is Vaughan Armstrong as a Videan captain, and he will be

791
00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:15.659
back as Admiral Forrest in Enterprise.

792
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:19.619
I do like the, look at the way he's got his sort of one bit of

793
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:21.840
hair going over his scabby face.

794
00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:23.760
Because, you know, I think they're great.

795
00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:26.340
They're properly good aliens of Adeans.

796
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:26.820
They really good.

797
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:30.360
Because they kind of make you recoil a bit because it's so

798
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:30.840
disgusting.

799
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:35.219
I mean, we'll never forget what we're in faces when he took away

800
00:34:35.219 --> 00:34:38.400
that poor man's face and slapped it on his own itself.

801
00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:40.920
So amazing.

802
00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:41.820
That was great.

803
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:43.199
Yes.

804
00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:43.800
Yeah.

805
00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:45.719
So now we know.

806
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:50.099
She's contacted Evide and she's basically selling out the crew to

807
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:52.679
kill them because she wants to kill them all, which would have

808
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:56.099
been great in series one and super weird, but horribly upsetting

809
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:56.579
now.

810
00:34:56.579 --> 00:34:58.559
Well, they do try and give her emojis.

811
00:34:58.619 --> 00:34:58.980
Don't they?

812
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.559
She go, you know, you infected me with your ideals.

813
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.619
You have ideas of exploration.

814
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.239
Exit stuff.

815
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.760
Wow, you monsters.

816
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:11.639
It's almost like if they could, if.

817
00:35:11.699 --> 00:35:13.800
And they can't, because none of it makes any sense.

818
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:17.820
If they could have made that scene work, then maybe you could

819
00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:18.599
justify this.

820
00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:20.639
Yeah.

821
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.260
Yeah. but I don't think they could.

822
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:23.219
I don't think they could.

823
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.199
I think they could if this wasn't a thing that really happens.

824
00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:29.579
Do you know what I mean?

825
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:30.840
Like, I don't think there's things that really happened.

826
00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:31.559
It's all made up.

827
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:38.039
And, and, but if a, a hypothetical future, Kes, who by the end of

828
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:39.840
the episode hasn't ever happened.

829
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:46.260
Um, uh, you know, if she comes from the future and is is mean and

830
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:49.920
evil and stuff and Jennifer's still into it and is playing her and

831
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.980
being fun and fooling the rest of the crew and we haven't missed

832
00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:55.860
her so we don't feel so bad about this because she was in it last

833
00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:58.320
week and she'll be in it again next week.

834
00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:00.300
I think this works incredibly well.

835
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.780
But I think this is just terrible.

836
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.059
Poor old Chuvol, right?

837
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:09.840
They mostly only drag him out now when something weird's going on

838
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.500
and he goes, you know, I can sense something strange happening in

839
00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:13.739
the room.

840
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.739
And Janeway should say like, do you remember what, what, like that

841
00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:21.480
little girl in flashback that you kept seeing or, you know, that

842
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.659
time we were being experimented on by aliens and didn't realise it

843
00:36:24.659 --> 00:36:25.380
or...

844
00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:27.840
She should listen to him.

845
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.739
He's always right.

846
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.119
He is always right.

847
00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:31.260
Well, he's too far.

848
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:31.739
He's awesome.

849
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.679
Yeah.

850
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:36.960
Yeah, anyway.

851
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:38.699
What the hell was this cloud they're going into here?

852
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.039
So it's full of subspace vacuoles, whatever they are.

853
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.599
It's like Swiss.

854
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.460
That's not the sort of thing you don't really want to.

855
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.980
Is that what's behind you there on the Zoom call with a subspace

856
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:50.460
facial?

857
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:50.820
Yeah.

858
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.659
Yeah.

859
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:57.000
And but it means that they are trapped, you know, like they're

860
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.840
going through this sort of space and they're trapped and it gives

861
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:03.539
us a little bit of sort of interesting business sort of

862
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:04.079
interesting business.

863
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:05.760
That doesn't waste too much.

864
00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:07.079
Right, right.

865
00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:11.280
Apart from Jane Way's hair, this could be, see, series 6. this

866
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:12.960
whole shot on the bridge.

867
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:13.739
Okay.

868
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.300
Yeah, yeah.

869
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.559
If I was doing a DS9 episode in series 6. and was going back to

870
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.679
season one, I'd see a visually different show.

871
00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:26.460
Everybody, I mean, Cisco, Jesus Christ. everybody would look

872
00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:27.239
completely different.

873
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:29.519
All the relationships would be completely different.

874
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:30.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

875
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:32.159
But this show doesn't do that.

876
00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:36.539
It's quite telling. trapped in amber as much as we are.

877
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:37.500
Yeah.

878
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:38.340
Yeah.

879
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.800
But I still thought that there was enough and it was sort of fun

880
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.179
to revisit it, you know.

881
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.579
There was that wonderful bit in series 4.

882
00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:45.780
It's the gift again.

883
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.559
I think it starts with all of the Borg implants all over the

884
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:49.800
ship.

885
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.079
I think it's the 1st show, the gift. you know?

886
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:53.219
We've just come out of school.

887
00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:56.099
Scorpion and they've made all the changes.

888
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:57.780
Yeah, that would have been so great.

889
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.280
Yeah.

890
00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:01.800
No, week after, everything's back to normal.

891
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:02.639
All fixed.

892
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:05.039
Well, just like the big rip in the hull this week.

893
00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:08.699
How do you play these sort of scenes where you're sensing a

894
00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:09.059
disturbance?

895
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.320
Is it a bit like indigestion?

896
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:13.500
Some people, actually.

897
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:17.639
I think team looks like it just or when you've got traffic gas or

898
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:17.940
something.

899
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:22.500
That was the note he got from the director.

900
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:29.039
Although I do like, you know, the fact that you've got Naomi and

901
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.079
her mother and Carey.

902
00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:34.860
It's like, oh, please, why can't you have a semi-regular guest

903
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:35.219
cast?

904
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:36.960
It just adds so much to a show.

905
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:38.039
It really does.

906
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:38.820
It does.

907
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.099
Even TNG adds 7 people.

908
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:42.539
Mr. Malt, you know?

909
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:43.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

910
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:48.059
And Barclay and Rose sometimes and, you know...

911
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.219
And all the characters that came in and out, Gower.

912
00:38:50.219 --> 00:38:53.460
There's a gun, Waxana, and, you know, those like a queue.

913
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:55.199
All those people that we saw every now and again.

914
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:56.340
Yeah.

915
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.340
It was a very odd call, wasn't it?

916
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.579
just taking all those characters out and making it just about 7

917
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:02.820
people.

918
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:04.199
I know.

919
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:04.920
It's terrible.

920
00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:07.380
It's the stupidest thing about it, I think.

921
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.440
I mean, it's always a bit stupid.

922
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:11.280
Do you know what I mean?

923
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:14.460
It's like we're going on this mission and it turns out everyone in

924
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:18.119
the ship is, you know, in the opening credits and that's normal.

925
00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:20.039
We still do it in strange new worlds.

926
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:20.940
Do you know what I mean?

927
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.940
Like that's absolutely a Star Trek thing.

928
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.539
But it is artificial and if they can do a little bit more to kind

929
00:39:27.539 --> 00:39:31.139
of paper over it and just make it seem like there's more than 9

930
00:39:31.139 --> 00:39:32.099
people on the ship.

931
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:33.719
That's pretty good, I think.

932
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:40.260
Discovery did a sort of effort. effortlessly without infringing on

933
00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:41.099
the main cast.

934
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.019
You add Denver and O war and people like that there.

935
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.619
But, yeah, it was still about those central characters.

936
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:49.619
What's really baffling, Nathan, is the fact that they then focus

937
00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:53.039
in on those 7 characters and fail to develop half of them.

938
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.340
Yeah, you've given them so much time.

939
00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:01.920
But again, it's doing the plot thing, isn't it?

940
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:04.139
It's just doing the plot stuff.

941
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:09.239
Yes, Chevot goes, you know, I think you might have died here once

942
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:09.539
you know?

943
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.920
Yeah, yeah.

944
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:11.699
Yeah.

945
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:12.900
I was shocked by that.

946
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:17.579
I'd forgotten that he, she just kills her. and then, you know, get

947
00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:18.239
to see it again.

948
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:23.280
No, but I didn't feel much if I'm honest, and I probably should.

949
00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:26.460
Well, except that when it's a fake death like that.

950
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:31.019
Having everyone feel very bad about it, as we saw in our most

951
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:35.460
recent episode, vanishing point where we were breaking the new

952
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:36.960
star, she's father.

953
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:40.320
But we happen to have this small amount of goo that we can send

954
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:42.179
you. senity.

955
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:43.800
Like, that's bad.

956
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:44.880
Do you know what I mean?

957
00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:45.539
Like that's bad.

958
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:48.719
And so what happens is we killed Bilana, then we go into the past

959
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:52.559
so we don't have to watch everyone distressed about Bilana's

960
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:52.800
death.

961
00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:54.059
Did you see that?

962
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:54.840
then it unhappens.

963
00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:56.099
Did you see that?

964
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.920
So Chuvok was sort of going into synaptic distress or something

965
00:40:58.920 --> 00:40:59.340
like that.

966
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:01.679
And then there was a close-up.

967
00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:04.139
There was a close-up on K as if she was actually feeling

968
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:04.619
something.

969
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:05.579
Oh my god.

970
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.860
Maybe I do still have some feelings about this.

971
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.980
But unfortunately, the end still looked utterly blank.

972
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:13.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

973
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.719
I think the close up was supposed to be, oh, God, am I doing the

974
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:16.019
right thing?

975
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.619
But, I mean, how do you how do you play this?

976
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:21.059
It's so fake.

977
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.980
And even if she's not checked out.

978
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:27.840
She's kind of like, like Cassie's now suddenly evil, but how do I

979
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:28.500
play that?

980
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:30.179
Like when she was playing the warlord?

981
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:33.900
If this is series one and she's playing hypothetical future evil

982
00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:36.059
case, then she gets to have fun.

983
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:37.380
Here, it's just unpleasant.

984
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:39.900
Do you remember as well?

985
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:41.519
In Caretaker, they rescued her.

986
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:45.239
She was bruised and being bloody raped and things by the Cazon.

987
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.820
How could she be angry with these people?

988
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.860
They've showed her nothing but kindness.

989
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.780
And she loved them.

990
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:52.920
Do you know what I mean?

991
00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:54.780
Like she was so kind to the doctor.

992
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.699
She was so kind to Janeway.

993
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.699
She has that beautiful deep caramel voice.

994
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.800
She's got that pretty smile.

995
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.199
Like, I like Kess a lot.

996
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:08.579
I don't think she's a great character. and I don't think she's a

997
00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:10.800
great character because I don't think they gave her enough focus.

998
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:12.900
Like when they did, she was really fun.

999
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:14.280
I think Cold Fire is great.

1000
00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:16.800
I quite, I still quite like before and after.

1001
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:18.059
I know we had a lot of issues with it.

1002
00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:20.760
I think she's really good in it though.

1003
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.860
She has a lot to do in that episode.

1004
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.260
Well, she's certainly given it more welly than this.

1005
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:26.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1006
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.099
You shouldn't give much less welly than this, though.

1007
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:35.940
I do like her yelling at these some, these video, though.

1008
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.519
It's just like, yeah, well, suck it.

1009
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:41.760
You know, it's your problem because you want me to help you

1010
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:45.420
shouldn't we be seeing some kind of conflict?

1011
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:48.780
Because like, at the end, where Janeway just, you know, gives her

1012
00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:52.619
a very pat speech and she goes, she goes, oh, my God, I remember

1013
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:54.119
how much I love you, people.

1014
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:56.159
What am I doing?

1015
00:42:56.219 --> 00:42:57.239
There's no conflict.

1016
00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:00.960
There's no conflict And if, did you know what I mean?

1017
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:06.059
If evil future cares comes in, then we don't have to have conflict

1018
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:08.880
because she's evil, but this is our cares, you know?

1019
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.699
We'd be thinking then, is what the hell happened to make her

1020
00:43:11.699 --> 00:43:12.179
life?

1021
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1022
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:13.440
That's right.

1023
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.480
They could have made it worse.

1024
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:17.880
They could have made she could have blown up a whole planet with

1025
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.579
her amazing mind powers, but because then it will never have

1026
00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:22.320
happened at the end, then it's fine.

1027
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:23.219
You know what I mean?

1028
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.860
And we're still asking, what the hell happened to make her like

1029
00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:26.099
this?

1030
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.239
And we're getting no...

1031
00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:27.900
We never found out.

1032
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:29.039
No.

1033
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.159
They were nice out there in the universe, though.

1034
00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:33.539
Like, that was so bad.

1035
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.380
Do we ever loan?

1036
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:39.179
No, she turned her into this sort of...

1037
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:41.219
Murderous, like a mess murderer.

1038
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.039
Who's going to kill 100s of people for no reason.

1039
00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:45.179
Oh, look at this.

1040
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:48.000
These massive claws coming out of the podian ship.

1041
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:50.579
Straight into them.

1042
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.780
Yeah, it's so good.

1043
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:56.699
Go on, quick, take the pit with Jaco saying. hes not needed.

1044
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.619
Oh, no, Janeway's there as well.

1045
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:02.340
It's really visceral as well, because the camera shakes, the

1046
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:06.179
computer generated camera, when the, when it's not just the real

1047
00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:09.719
live camera on the bridge set that shakes, but the actual camera

1048
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.480
shakes, I think, when the thing hits the, hits the hull.

1049
00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:18.000
The documentary drone on the exterior of the ship. is suffering

1050
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:18.719
puppeting.

1051
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.980
It's great.

1052
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:20.820
That's pretty great.

1053
00:44:21.059 --> 00:44:22.860
Oh boy.

1054
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.260
Actually, no, I'm lying, actually.

1055
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.380
Do you remember Harry Kim did have wonderful hair and syrup to one

1056
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:28.739
or two?

1057
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:33.239
It sort of hung over his face in a very early 90s sort of boy

1058
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:34.320
bandish sort of a way.

1059
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:35.219
It was pretty great.

1060
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.019
It was very early, yeah.

1061
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:38.639
Yeah.

1062
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:42.000
Oh, I, we always have no readings. and they're the same.

1063
00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:46.139
We always knew things were bad because Jane Ways and Kim's hair

1064
00:44:46.139 --> 00:44:48.960
would sort of be in disarray in the tensest moments.

1065
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:50.099
Exactly.

1066
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:50.820
Exactly.

1067
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.000
And Chakotay was quite hot in those early seasons.

1068
00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:54.599
Do you remember?

1069
00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:56.340
He had a bit of gray in his hair early.

1070
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:57.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1071
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.000
Yeah, they seem to have, they seem to have died it out.

1072
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.579
They found just for men in the future.

1073
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:04.199
Yeah, that's right.

1074
00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:08.340
Oh, boy.

1075
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:10.559
Does she start talking to her younger self now?

1076
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:11.940
I'm gonna get you out of here.

1077
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.940
How do you play that?

1078
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.340
I know, because it's so stupid.

1079
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:22.800
It's just ridiculous I'm taking you home.

1080
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:23.639
No.

1081
00:45:26.940 --> 00:45:32.519
Now this is where I, oh, it just gets so annoying.

1082
00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:35.639
This whole confrontation with younger kids, older kids, Saint Jane

1083
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:36.239
Wen.

1084
00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:41.159
But we have Videans firing those fabulous space guns in the

1085
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:44.820
corridor and stuff and we haven't actually interfere with Kes's

1086
00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:45.179
plans.

1087
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:46.860
Like she can't leave.

1088
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:48.960
Deadlock was better.

1089
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:49.800
Do you remember?

1090
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:50.460
They would go around.

1091
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:53.340
And they were literally going around with their scanners going.

1092
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.780
Oh, he's got a very good spleen.

1093
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:55.019
Right.

1094
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:56.579
Keep him for later, you know.

1095
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:00.539
But again, remember once that starts happening.

1096
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:04.199
We know that some timey thing's going to happen so that it's not

1097
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:05.340
real or whatever.

1098
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:09.840
You know, it's the same problem, but I think it's better

1099
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:10.619
constructed.

1100
00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:11.340
This is so bad.

1101
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:14.519
It's like, don't show your face, love.

1102
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:15.360
Do you know what I mean?

1103
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:17.519
She's unconscious, so we can't see her face.

1104
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:19.079
Who is that extra?

1105
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.840
Just like, get in my get in my chest, yeah.

1106
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:22.260
All right.

1107
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.639
It's easy in a dress.

1108
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:31.679
I don't want to see Kez throwing Jane way across the room.

1109
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.400
No, that's no fun, but this, you know, no, look, they're doing the

1110
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:36.300
threshold thing.

1111
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.400
Phase of fire going across the door.

1112
00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:42.179
It's wonderful It's awesome That is so cheap.

1113
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.039
Just a laser beam down across.

1114
00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:45.480
Come on.

1115
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.119
Okay, now let's see.

1116
00:46:48.179 --> 00:46:49.679
She's a prisoner on this ship.

1117
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:51.900
No one's a prisoner here, cares.

1118
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:53.219
I was a child.

1119
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.380
You corrupted me with your ideas.

1120
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.059
What ideas?

1121
00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:00.239
Acceleration.

1122
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:02.039
I believed you.

1123
00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:02.880
What?

1124
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:09.179
You corrupted me with the ideas of exploration and discovery.

1125
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:12.599
Oh, thank God, we're back on the bridge, discharged the

1126
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:13.980
antigraviton pulses.

1127
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:14.639
Oh, thank God.

1128
00:47:14.699 --> 00:47:16.559
But this is kind of exciting.

1129
00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:17.519
Do you know what I mean?

1130
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:19.980
This is an exciting confrontation where they tear themselves away

1131
00:47:19.980 --> 00:47:24.420
free from the big things, you know, like I think that's great.

1132
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:27.420
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

1133
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:32.219
So she's telling Janeway now that in 3.5 years she's leaving the

1134
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:32.579
ship.

1135
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:34.619
That doesn't get reset.

1136
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:36.780
So how does Janeway not know?

1137
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.460
So, wait, wait, wait.

1138
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.300
No, no, no.

1139
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:46.860
So it does, she does she doesn't know, she does know when it comes

1140
00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:48.900
back because it hasn't happened yet.

1141
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:54.059
So she's leaving it, but she's telling Janeway in the past that

1142
00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:55.980
she's going to leave in 3.5 years.

1143
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:56.579
Yeah.

1144
00:47:56.579 --> 00:47:59.340
So why does Jake Weigh act surprised when that happens?

1145
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.739
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's true.

1146
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:02.400
That's true.

1147
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:04.260
See, you start doing these things.

1148
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:06.659
It falls over like a house of cards.

1149
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:13.019
Whereas, yeah, so, but I do like when we replay the scene, but now

1150
00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:15.900
Janeway remembers this thing having happened.

1151
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.860
Yeah, but I don't like it when we replay the scene and Kez

1152
00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:20.760
suddenly remembers.

1153
00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:23.519
Oh, but it hadn't happened then.

1154
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:24.900
It hadn't happened.

1155
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.739
That was it.

1156
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:31.260
When she left, she hadn't come back in time yet. and changed the

1157
00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:31.679
past.

1158
00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:37.380
And so when she leaves in 3.5 years, fury hasn't happened yet, so

1159
00:48:37.380 --> 00:48:40.619
Janeway doesn't remember this because it hadn't happened.

1160
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:42.480
But now she has gone back in time.

1161
00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:44.159
So it should have always have happened.

1162
00:48:44.219 --> 00:48:47.039
No, no, no, that's not how it works in this episode.

1163
00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:49.800
That's not how time works. time works.

1164
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:51.900
You go back into the past and change what you mean.

1165
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.840
Yeah, it hadn't changed before.

1166
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:59.099
Yeah, I know. fucking stupid is what it is.

1167
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:00.840
No, no.

1168
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:01.920
But that all makes sense.

1169
00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:02.820
That all makes sense.

1170
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:04.139
Oh my god.

1171
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.380
Even her falling over when she got shot then was terrible.

1172
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:08.280
Did you see it?

1173
00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:11.219
But she literally kills cats.

1174
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.440
Like she just kills her and that's awful.

1175
00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:14.760
Why would we want to see that?

1176
00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:16.860
But it literally happens.

1177
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:18.360
So she's dead, right?

1178
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:20.579
And that's the thing that happens.

1179
00:49:20.699 --> 00:49:24.539
And now that's the version of what happened.

1180
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:25.380
It hadn't happened before.

1181
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.880
That was a culmination, which Janeway.

1182
00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:34.380
Which case, attack Janeway, and then Janeway...

1183
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:35.639
Janeway murders her.

1184
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:40.500
But but that didn't happen the original in the original season one

1185
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:40.980
right?

1186
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:43.739
So she's gone back and changed season one.

1187
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:47.579
And so now when we go back to season six, she remembers all of

1188
00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:48.300
that stuff having her.

1189
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:49.500
Oh, I know what you're saying.

1190
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.659
I just don't know that it makes any sense to me.

1191
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:55.019
Like, I feel as if now she's gone back and done it.

1192
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:55.860
It always happened.

1193
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.960
No, no, no, it hadn't happened before.

1194
00:49:58.019 --> 00:49:59.099
Are you sure?

1195
00:49:59.099 --> 00:49:59.880
She changed it.

1196
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:03.179
Yeah, there was a run through where it'd have normally when season

1197
00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:05.219
one happened as we saw.

1198
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:09.179
And then she goes back to season one and changes season one and

1199
00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:13.800
gets herself killed in the process and now that changes things.

1200
00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:14.940
I think it all makes sense.

1201
00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:16.679
I just don't do any of this.

1202
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:20.639
But I, this is Braga.

1203
00:50:20.699 --> 00:50:24.719
Like, you have Braga, and when he decides, later on, he'll decide

1204
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:28.320
that high concept things are too hard and the show will be about

1205
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.639
you know, like, they don't even do high contact or character. just

1206
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:32.880
nothing.

1207
00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:34.139
Nothing.

1208
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:36.360
But when he does high concept stuff.

1209
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:38.699
I think it's well thought through and I think it's fun and

1210
00:50:38.699 --> 00:50:42.360
interesting, but this is, he gets all of the character stuff.

1211
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:44.940
He just brutally, tragically wrong.

1212
00:50:45.059 --> 00:50:45.360
I think.

1213
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.780
Okay, what's happening now?

1214
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:50.400
Oh, this is where they go right.

1215
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:50.880
This is real.

1216
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:52.500
We're going to tell you now.

1217
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:56.039
In the future, you're going to be totally evil and try a murderer

1218
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:56.280
right?

1219
00:50:56.340 --> 00:51:00.059
So would you please try and remember that we were really nice to

1220
00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:01.260
you in the past, okay?

1221
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:04.980
No, no, no, but she's saying, you like us, right?

1222
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:06.300
You do like us.

1223
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:07.079
She said, yeah.

1224
00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:09.300
You remember that you chose to be here.

1225
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:09.719
Yeah.

1226
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:12.960
Well, can you just record a thing and say that to your other

1227
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:13.320
self?

1228
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:16.079
so that she remembered.

1229
00:51:16.139 --> 00:51:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

1230
00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:18.300
Is this scene now?

1231
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:18.960
I'm sorry.

1232
00:51:19.019 --> 00:51:23.579
When she is, I just can't get over this bit when she...

1233
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:25.440
Oh my god, yes, of course.

1234
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:30.239
But, but we had that chat, didn't we?

1235
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:35.760
But, but, but, but it hadn't happened.

1236
00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:37.079
Like they hadn't had that chat.

1237
00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:38.820
That's why he's still doing this.

1238
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:41.760
It makes sense.

1239
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:43.440
Are you sure?

1240
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:44.699
I'm not convinced.

1241
00:51:44.699 --> 00:51:48.480
But again, this is a slightly different take.

1242
00:51:48.539 --> 00:51:50.820
Oh, Kate, that smile.

1243
00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:52.800
See, this is much nicer.

1244
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:55.199
It's nice to see, you know, giving a birthday cake to somebody

1245
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:56.880
didn't it, is seeing a murder, somebody.

1246
00:51:56.940 --> 00:51:58.199
Yeah, that's right.

1247
00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:02.400
That's right It's going from that to that in a single episode

1248
00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:07.139
that's right Watch out on Voyager.

1249
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:10.920
You'll either get a birthday cake or you'll be shot to death one

1250
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:11.280
or the other.

1251
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.900
And then smile.

1252
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:18.599
Come on, I know, I know.

1253
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:21.480
It's a glorious, isn't it?

1254
00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:24.480
Oh, she's still smiling when she walks on the bridge.

1255
00:52:24.539 --> 00:52:27.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's wonderful How lovely she's thinking to have

1256
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:30.780
a character scene in this more terrible episode.

1257
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:31.980
Yeah.

1258
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:35.219
And then suddenly she remembers.

1259
00:52:35.340 --> 00:52:39.480
So now she remembers, oh, shit, this is happening from our at my

1260
00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:40.139
end now.

1261
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:43.260
Why is this not all documented?

1262
00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:45.179
They know exactly when this is coming.

1263
00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:47.159
Like, oh, they couldn't tell anyone.

1264
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:48.420
She didn't want to tell anyone.

1265
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:53.219
She sent the doctor out and only Tuvok and her know about this

1266
00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:54.000
past thing.

1267
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:55.139
Yeah exactly.

1268
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:57.179
So why are they not preparing for this moment?

1269
00:52:57.239 --> 00:52:58.920
Why is there not a diary?

1270
00:52:58.980 --> 00:52:59.760
This game's prepared.

1271
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:00.659
Kes is coming today.

1272
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:02.940
No, she's literally just remembered.

1273
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.119
And gone, well, yes, right. today right?

1274
00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:10.260
It's because there's no there's no Stardate this episode.

1275
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:13.500
Sorry, I knew I was going to shout a lot watching this.

1276
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.780
There's no Stardate.

1277
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:18.840
And so that's why she doesn't know because she looked at her

1278
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:19.559
calendar this morning.

1279
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:20.400
Fine.

1280
00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:23.519
Then roughly in 6 years, I'll set a diary date.

1281
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:25.559
Evil cares is coming.

1282
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:27.960
Well, yeah.

1283
00:53:28.019 --> 00:53:29.519
But she knows it now.

1284
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:35.579
Conveniently, everybody forgot, and then they remembered.

1285
00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:38.460
Well, no, yeah, or it didn't...

1286
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:42.119
So we could have the intervening years and all of it makes sense.

1287
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:48.960
But again, what I do like is that it's sorted.

1288
00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:53.340
Like they don't, at this point, they've had 6 years to prepare and

1289
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:54.179
she just fixes it.

1290
00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:55.019
Do you know what I mean?

1291
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.300
Like it, it, it, they solve the problem.

1292
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:58.860
But the solution is so dumb.

1293
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:00.719
Like, the say is dumb.

1294
00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:03.119
They knew she was coming and she was going to tear apart the ship

1295
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.460
and people were going to die. couldn't they have just stopped that

1296
00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:06.599
from happening somehow?

1297
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:07.679
dies, who dies?

1298
00:54:07.739 --> 00:54:09.960
Well, she's tearing out bulkheads there.

1299
00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:11.400
I'm assuming someone's in those rooms.

1300
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:14.400
Oh yeah, but they're not exposed to space.

1301
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:15.780
They're interior corridor.

1302
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:17.519
She's not mind those people.

1303
00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:19.320
They're just the little people that we don't talk about.

1304
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:20.159
That's right.

1305
00:54:20.219 --> 00:54:21.480
No, they're smashing people up.

1306
00:54:21.539 --> 00:54:23.460
They're smashing the things up, but here we go.

1307
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:25.139
This is the bit in engineering.

1308
00:54:25.380 --> 00:54:26.760
Yeah.

1309
00:54:26.820 --> 00:54:28.260
Just terrible.

1310
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:31.739
And like, you know, I don't blame Jennifer for this scene. where

1311
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:34.260
she goes, How do I play this?

1312
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:35.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1313
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:36.480
Bless her.

1314
00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:38.519
That awful makeup.

1315
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:41.159
You blame Janeway, but the choice was yours.

1316
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:43.440
It's all very strange.

1317
00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:45.780
You made a decision to leave a combo.

1318
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:46.559
Thank you, brother.

1319
00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:48.000
You finally remembered the part.

1320
00:54:48.059 --> 00:54:49.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1321
00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:50.400
Why has she forgotten that?

1322
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:52.380
How has she forgotten that?

1323
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:55.139
It was so it was 6 years ago.

1324
00:54:56.699 --> 00:54:59.159
Why is she taking revenge?

1325
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:00.119
Like, what's going on?

1326
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:01.260
It just makes no sense.

1327
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:04.980
She must have been through something terrible, you know?

1328
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:10.619
No, it was all that discovery and exploration.

1329
00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:15.539
And those ideals, she was forced to do those dangerously positive

1330
00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:17.820
ideals about exploring space.

1331
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:21.900
And then she goes, oh, yeah, but yes, yes.

1332
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:24.360
Again, oh, yeah.

1333
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:25.079
I know.

1334
00:55:25.139 --> 00:55:25.860
I know.

1335
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.840
I just was, do you know what?

1336
00:55:27.900 --> 00:55:30.239
I may have felt it because you know the screen.

1337
00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:33.840
Yeah, I think I would often attack Montelli, but I may have done

1338
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:34.260
at this point.

1339
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:37.019
I mean, it's so bad.

1340
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:38.280
It's such a bad idea.

1341
00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:44.400
And it matters when you do this to a character, I think.

1342
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.539
She's literally telling her what happened in her own past.

1343
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1344
00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:51.179
How could she have forgotten it?

1345
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:52.440
It makes no sense.

1346
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:57.900
There's no nothing, they, it's not possible, I think, to come up

1347
00:55:57.900 --> 00:55:59.699
with a satisfactory way of getting.

1348
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:00.539
You can't got it.

1349
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:01.980
Do you not remember?

1350
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:03.119
In before and after.

1351
00:56:03.179 --> 00:56:06.659
They said when the accompanies get older, it's like dementia, isn't

1352
00:56:06.659 --> 00:56:06.840
it?

1353
00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:08.460
It's like, oh, they wouldn't be great.

1354
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:09.300
It would be terrible.

1355
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:13.619
But at least if she, like, she's so old that she's sort of

1356
00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:17.579
forgotten, there's the details are a bit muzzy. that maybe?

1357
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:20.760
Well, it's nearly her whole lifespan, remember?

1358
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:24.119
Like, they live to, but, you know, like when you're...

1359
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:25.380
You wanted me to remember.

1360
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:27.059
Oh, I was.

1361
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:28.260
Oh, yeah.

1362
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:32.639
Oh, and she's doing it with this awful makeup.

1363
00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:35.159
Oh, boy.

1364
00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:36.059
Yeah.

1365
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:36.780
Yeah.

1366
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:38.039
And that's it.

1367
00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:40.679
Because the premise is very dumb. the memory.

1368
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.880
I buried...

1369
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:46.019
I just forgot, she goes, just because of the plot, I forgot.

1370
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:48.300
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous.

1371
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:49.440
Just absurd.

1372
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:54.300
Oh, Joe, look, Paul Cage.

1373
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:55.920
She's trying to give this to Wellies.

1374
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.099
I like I like the line.

1375
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:00.719
Does it matter which guy goes home?

1376
00:57:00.780 --> 00:57:03.780
This is the scene right, if you're going to do this ridiculous

1377
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:04.320
episode.

1378
00:57:04.380 --> 00:57:07.679
This is a scene that could have landed after all the fireworks

1379
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.139
where we're saying goodbye.

1380
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:13.739
Look at that, she's dead behind the eyes, Jennifer Leanne.

1381
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:15.659
I think...

1382
00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:21.480
I like, he says just looking and she says, do you see anyone you

1383
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:21.780
know?

1384
00:57:22.739 --> 00:57:24.960
And he just is just you.

1385
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:26.099
I like that exchange.

1386
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:30.420
But I don't feel that there's any relationship here. very much

1387
00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:30.719
back.

1388
00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:32.460
Ethan's giving it all.

1389
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1390
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:34.440
Yeah.

1391
00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:36.539
But it's not a bad scene.

1392
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:37.800
Like, it's not badly written.

1393
00:57:37.860 --> 00:57:42.000
I would have loved for this to have been an episode like the gift

1394
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:47.400
where she just reconnects with everybody and has seen to be...

1395
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:52.019
Robert Picardo and scenes with Kate Mulgrew and just had a

1396
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:55.500
genuinely quiet and moving character tale.

1397
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:57.840
They just can't do it, can they?

1398
00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.820
No, no, no.

1399
00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:02.519
No, it's funny.

1400
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:06.360
I think, is it just it's Voyager, and it's weird, crazy high

1401
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:10.619
concept shit, and then next time it'll be the cheese, and then, do

1402
00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:11.039
you know what I mean?

1403
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:15.360
It will be macro viruses and stuff, like it's just incredible

1404
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:19.559
nonsense every week and that's, you know, why the boy gets made

1405
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:20.219
into a museum.

1406
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.159
Yeah. ship just goes off and that's it.

1407
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:24.480
We never know what happens to her.

1408
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:26.340
Let's assume she gets home, shall we?

1409
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:27.360
I suppose.

1410
00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:28.500
Yeah, maybe.

1411
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.420
Yeah, yeah, not good.

1412
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:31.920
She never gets mentioned again.

1413
00:58:31.980 --> 00:58:32.760
Never.

1414
00:58:33.059 --> 00:58:38.280
I'm trying to think what lands in DS9 is spot in series 6.

1415
00:58:38.340 --> 00:58:41.219
I think it's the sound of her voice, which is exactly why I just

1416
00:58:41.219 --> 00:58:45.539
described you there, a quiet character tale about relationships

1417
00:58:45.539 --> 00:58:51.119
and everyone's struggling during wartime. in high concept, timey

1418
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:52.559
thing in there, you know.

1419
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:55.320
But they're in completely different places, doesn't it, when it

1420
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:56.880
comes to characterisation.

1421
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:01.920
And so I think Voyager in series 6, because we've done a lot of

1422
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:04.260
series 6, now we've done barges of dead.

1423
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:09.599
We done Alice, we've done Muse, we've done collective.

1424
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:14.639
And that's a real mixture of episodes, right, in terms of good and

1425
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:15.059
bad.

1426
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.260
And I think it is mostly all high concept of the week with some

1427
00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:20.940
occasional character stuff thrown in.

1428
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:25.260
So it's just as how well they execute the high concept, I think

1429
00:59:25.260 --> 00:59:31.860
rather than, especially in terms of the writing, rather than, oh

1430
00:59:31.860 --> 00:59:34.559
they're interesting characters to follow at this point because I'm

1431
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:35.760
not sure that there are.

1432
00:59:35.820 --> 00:59:40.619
Well, I think, like, think about Muse, which I think is an

1433
00:59:40.619 --> 00:59:45.719
absolute top tier episode of Voyager and a great episode of Star

1434
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:46.619
Trek.

1435
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:51.960
And it just relies on the fact, not that B'Lan's a very well

1436
00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:57.719
delineated character, but on the fact that Roxanne gives just a

1437
00:59:57.719 --> 00:59:59.460
reliably superb performance.

1438
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:03.960
And because it's about the show and about Star Trek in all sorts

1439
01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:06.719
of ways, so it matters, it's meaningful.

1440
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:10.320
And it's about the process of storytelling and it's got all sorts

1441
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.039
of things to say, you know, like I think that's properly good.

1442
01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:15.059
Here.

1443
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:22.380
We've got like a central image which has taken over Brannan

1444
01:00:22.380 --> 01:00:28.679
Braga's brain and a decent time travel plot that's well executed

1445
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:34.500
and well done, and absolutely no regard for a character who has

1446
01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:36.539
mattered to us.

1447
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:40.440
And so it's dumb because it makes no sense from a character

1448
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:41.400
standpoint.

1449
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:47.099
And it's unpleasant. the ultimate character assassination in Star

1450
01:00:47.099 --> 01:00:47.460
Trek.

1451
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:49.440
I can't think of the worst one.

1452
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:50.639
Really?

1453
01:00:50.699 --> 01:00:54.179
And like, by the time we get to, we're nearly at the end of the

1454
01:00:54.179 --> 01:00:58.679
season, and that's where they're trying to do a sort of big 7 of 9

1455
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:02.639
Borg episode, and it's Unimatrix zero, they can't even do that

1456
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:03.539
right now.

1457
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:07.619
It's a bit of a shit.

1458
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:09.000
This was your chance to shine.

1459
01:01:09.059 --> 01:01:12.119
You had series 6 and 7 where you were the only trek on the

1460
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:13.920
airwaves and you gave us fury.

1461
01:01:20.820 --> 01:01:24.539
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1462
01:01:24.539 --> 01:01:26.519
work out where we're going next.

1463
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:31.199
And I have control over the randomiser, and so we're going to

1464
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:35.159
choose from a 21st century series of Star Trek.

1465
01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:41.159
In fact, we're going to choose from among the 2 episodes of

1466
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:46.440
Starfleet Academy that have aired at the time of this recording.

1467
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:50.760
It's your only way of forcing me to watch modern television, isn't

1468
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:50.940
it?

1469
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:54.059
That's right Well, we did do it with Strange New Worlds.

1470
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:57.480
We watched the 1st episode of Strange New Worlds together and that

1471
01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:59.460
turned out pretty good, I think.

1472
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:05.639
I've added Starfleet Academy to the Randomiser last week and it is

1473
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:08.340
ready to go for me to press the button.

1474
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:10.920
Star Trek 90210, don't you?

1475
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:12.119
Well, yeah.

1476
01:02:12.179 --> 01:02:15.059
There'll be plenty to talk about when it comes to that.

1477
01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:18.659
As long as they're all hot, I'll be fine.

1478
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:20.219
They are all very hot.

1479
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:22.260
So I'm going to press the button.

1480
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:27.960
And it's season one, episode two.

1481
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:30.300
Oh, God. beta test.

1482
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:35.760
It's very good, but I don't think we're going to choose it.

1483
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:37.980
No, I will press the one again.

1484
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.019
We could be a while.

1485
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:41.039
Okay.

1486
01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:48.000
So it season, one, episode one, kids these days, um, and no, is

1487
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:48.659
that what it's called?

1488
01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:51.719
It's actually a really great name for it.

1489
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:56.039
Because, of course, it's about kids.

1490
01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:58.860
Oh, God.

1491
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:04.139
And it's about these days, which are, of course, the 31st century

1492
01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:07.920
or the 32nd century or wherever the hell we are in this version of

1493
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:08.460
Star Trek.

1494
01:03:08.579 --> 01:03:10.860
How far off the night is Trek, are we here?

1495
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:12.420
Sort of the period of 90s trek.

1496
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.579
So 8 or 900 years or something.

1497
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:16.139
It quite a long time.

1498
01:03:16.199 --> 01:03:16.679
Okay.

1499
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:19.980
So you'll see Admiral Vance is in this 1st episode.

1500
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:24.840
Tignataro's Jet Reno is in the 2nd episode.

1501
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:28.139
The doctor is obviously in this and it's just our doctor from

1502
01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:32.039
Voyager, who is still with us all this time later.

1503
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:36.599
It's a whole host of handsome Twinks, I hope.

1504
01:03:36.659 --> 01:03:37.679
Yes, yep.

1505
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:38.219
Yep, yep.

1506
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:39.300
And older people as well.

1507
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:42.599
So there's a big cast.

1508
01:03:42.659 --> 01:03:45.780
I think it has interesting things to say about the present time

1509
01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:48.780
and we will talk about...

1510
01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:52.380
We'll certainly talk about the reaction from the Nazi Star Trek

1511
01:03:52.380 --> 01:03:53.099
fans, you know.

1512
01:03:53.099 --> 01:03:54.900
Yeah, people very, very cross.

1513
01:03:54.960 --> 01:03:56.639
Gem Hadar woman.

1514
01:03:56.699 --> 01:03:58.980
Have you seen the interview with Earth?

1515
01:03:59.099 --> 01:04:00.960
so funny She's going.

1516
01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:04.019
Yeah, I've been reading all this stuff online.

1517
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:06.780
There's no such thing as Gemadar women.

1518
01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:10.320
And she goes, for God's sake, it's the fucking future, for God's

1519
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:12.719
sake, just, and it's all made up.

1520
01:04:12.780 --> 01:04:15.960
Like, of course, it could be Gemini.

1521
01:04:16.019 --> 01:04:17.340
It's all fiction.

1522
01:04:18.659 --> 01:04:21.659
We're not chronicling the future.

1523
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:24.900
Well, it was like the people going, what, a Klingon medical

1524
01:04:24.900 --> 01:04:26.400
student, Klingon son.

1525
01:04:26.460 --> 01:04:27.420
Doctors.

1526
01:04:27.420 --> 01:04:30.059
And it's just like, so you don't think they're going to mention

1527
01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:31.440
that in the episode?

1528
01:04:31.500 --> 01:04:34.139
You don't think anyone involved knows that?

1529
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:38.940
Like, it's, these are people who are not very good at literary

1530
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:42.300
criticism, and furthermore, they people who don't deserve to enjoy

1531
01:04:42.300 --> 01:04:45.119
another hour of Star Trek for the rest.

1532
01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:46.619
There is a lot of them, isn't there?

1533
01:04:47.460 --> 01:04:49.500
It's really odd.

1534
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:52.079
I think they're the people that voted for Trump, you know.

1535
01:04:52.139 --> 01:04:53.940
I think they might have been.

1536
01:04:54.420 --> 01:04:59.219
Yes, well, you know, few or you may have been very stupid indeed

1537
01:04:59.219 --> 01:05:03.000
but not quite as stupid as that contingent of Star Trek fans.

1538
01:05:03.059 --> 01:05:03.840
Absolutely.

1539
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:05.519
They probably like Fury.

1540
01:05:05.579 --> 01:05:07.920
Oh, I expect they do.

1541
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:10.860
Remember when Star Trek was highbrow, you know?

1542
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:14.880
Well, this will be fun. looking forward to it.

1543
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:18.420
Yeah, well, I mean, I wouldn't watch it otherwise, so let's do

1544
01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:18.599
it.

1545
01:05:18.659 --> 01:05:19.739
Brilliant.

1546
01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:30.119
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1547
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:34.320
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1548
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:36.719
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1549
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:37.619
media accounts.

1550
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:41.880
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme is composed

1551
01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:43.260
by Cameron Lahn.

1552
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:47.699
This episode was recorded on the 20th of January 2026 and released

1553
01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:49.079
on the 23rd of January.

1554
01:05:49.139 --> 01:05:53.039
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Starfleet Academy, kids

1555
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:53.699
these days.

1556
01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:16.739
Oh, OK. Is it a normal episode, like 45 minutes?

1557
01:06:17.579 --> 01:06:19.440
Oh, Christ, okay.

1558
01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:22.260
First episode 70 minutes, a 2nd episode 60.

1559
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:25.139
Have you got access to it?

1560
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:25.679
Yeah.

1561
01:06:25.739 --> 01:06:28.019
Yeah, so I'm paramount, I think.

1562
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1563
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

1564
01:06:30.179 --> 01:06:31.440
I'll watch it over the weekend.

1565
01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:32.639
So much fun.

1566
01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:35.219
Holy shit, it looks amazing as well.

1567
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:39.119
Like it just, I was thinking about the gray fucking corridors of

1568
01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:40.679
Voyager as I was watching it.

1569
01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:45.960
Um, and it's, It just looks incredible.

1570
01:06:46.019 --> 01:06:47.639
It is like the promenade.

1571
01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:49.980
Yeah, I can't wait to see that.

1572
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:51.239
Yeah, yeah.

1573
01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:55.559
And that's that's on board the ship, the Athena, which is the ship

1574
01:06:55.559 --> 01:06:58.320
that it partly takes place on.

1575
01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:01.019
Yeah, yeah.

1576
01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:04.800
And the earth looks weird, like it's weird.

1577
01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:08.460
You know, because they're the 1st class to go back to Earth.

1578
01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:14.699
Um, because we saw Starfleet Academy open in Discovery in, I think

1579
01:07:14.699 --> 01:07:18.420
it's probably season 3 because all of the, all of the new recruits

1580
01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:19.739
are standing.

1581
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:25.980
All of the new cadets are standing like one. 5 years away from one

1582
01:07:25.980 --> 01:07:30.360
another as the speech like Michael gives a speech or whatever or

1583
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:31.380
someone gives a speech.

1584
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:31.980
I can't remember.

1585
01:07:31.980 --> 01:07:33.239
Vance, possibly.

1586
01:07:33.300 --> 01:07:37.260
I was teaching somebody the other day, you know, about dead space

1587
01:07:37.260 --> 01:07:37.860
shots.

1588
01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:41.099
Yeah, I was going, no, Mark Donaldson.

1589
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:41.940
I was going, no, no.

1590
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:44.519
I can't remember what he was watching, but I knew there was a

1591
01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:48.480
swing, a camera swing round with someone on the right and then all

1592
01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:49.380
that space at the left.

1593
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:53.099
I said, when you start noticing it, it's everywhere.

1594
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:55.199
It's so bad.

1595
01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:56.820
So funny.

1596
01:07:56.820 --> 01:08:00.059
Unless we're supposed to take in how lovely the sets are.

1597
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:01.679
Yes, yeah.

1598
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:03.360
I can't imagine.

1599
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:04.980
That is tapestry.

1600
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:09.780
That ridiculous moment in tapestry where Beverly literally moves

1601
01:08:09.780 --> 01:08:13.019
everyone to the corner of the shot so that they've got room to

1602
01:08:13.019 --> 01:08:15.059
beam in in front of the camera.

1603
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:15.960
It's so great.

1604
01:08:16.020 --> 01:08:18.479
Oh, I like it when they step as well.

1605
01:08:18.539 --> 01:08:20.220
You know, when they sort of step back.

1606
01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:22.560
So there's room for people to come.

1607
01:08:22.859 --> 01:08:24.779
It's so good.

1608
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:26.880
Just move the camera back.