WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:20:25

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back aboard the Starship Voyager this week.

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We are watching series 6, episode 23 Fury, which is a story by Berman and Braga, um, and a teleplay by Brian Fuller and Michael Taylor.

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So it's got a pretty good pedigree.

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And it's an episode where we bring back Kess, who we last saw nearly 3 years ago.

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How do you think it went?

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Terribly.

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And a shame because I love the gift.

9
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I think the gift is one of the best Voyager episodes.

10
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It's quiet, yeah, but it is the most female centred episode of 90s trek you're gonna find.

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It's basically all about.

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Cares 7, Janeway and Balana, with the men barely getting a look in.

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So naturally, it's better than your average Voyager episode.

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I really, really didn't like this.

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It sort of started in a bad place for me, and as it progressed, I just got more angry and annoyed at these writers that know these characters.

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Somehow forgetting what makes any of them tick.

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It really frustrated me.

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I'm like, do you even remember, cares, you know, the character you created and wrote for for 3.5 years.

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You're bringing her back for a grand finale, exit wave.

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And this isn't who she is.

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This isn't who she is.

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And on top of that, you've got Jennifer Lien, who's had some issues since leaving Star Trek Voyager with the law and just in life in general, who phoning it in doesn't even begin to describe what she's doing in this episode.

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It's no kind of a performance.

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Could I very quickly talk to you though, about 90s trick in general, right?

25
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And just sort of the levels of bad that you can get across the 4 shows.

26
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Is that right?

27
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Why not?

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Let's do that.

30
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When TNG is bad. yeah.

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Generally, it's hugely entertaining, right?

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We've done some bad TNG.

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Like skin of evil.

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I mean, that dismal one where they all turned into monsters in episodes in series 7.

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What's that called again?

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Oh, that's brilliant, Genesis.

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But it's sort of bad, right?

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But it's very funny to watch.

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So TNG usually gets away with it just by turning it into some terrible B movie that's enjoyable to watch, but bad.

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DS9 is generally bad.

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I find when...

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When it's not DS9. when it's trying to be the other shows and it doesn't really conform in that way.

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So a lot of season one and some of season 2 where they're trying to do TNG knockoffs, it just doesn't feel like DS9 and so it's bad in that sort.

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When DS9 finds this group, it's generally kind of good, good or great.

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Enterprise is just dull shit when it's bad.

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Like, it's just really boring with no substance whatsoever.

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We've recently done vanishing and Oasis.

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You remember Strange New World.

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I mean there's nothing to them at all.

50
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Whereas Voyager, when Voyager is bad, right?

51
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it's really fucking stupid that's what annoys me.

52
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And that's episodes such as what's the one where Tom Paris turns into a salamander threshold.

53
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Yeah, course oblivion, you know, just dismally, stupid episodes of television.

54
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That just gets steadily more stupid as they go along.

55
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And I'm put in fury in there because it tries to tell some form of sophisticated time travel story.

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I don't think any of it makes any sense and you may tell me as we go through, well, yes, actually there is a logic to all of this.

57
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But when the thing that's holding this episode together is the motivation behind the character.

58
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And what they're doing, it just falls apart, the whole thing. is stupid.

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I actually found myself on the 1st watch enjoying it and I also enjoyed it the 2nd time through.

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With the understanding that no one is able satisfactorily to explain why Kessey's so angry, where the fury in the title comes from.

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Not even cares.

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No, it makes no sense at all.

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Braga has no idea why it's happening.

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No one knows.

65
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And so I think the more that you like the gift, the less you're going to like this, because the gift is beautiful, like it's a lovely departure.

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It's exactly what we want.

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You've got Kate, and I read an interview where she said that she was really distressed that Jennifer was leaving and playing Catherine Janeway being distressed that Kess was leaving.

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She said, the character's feelings were a little bit too close to my own, and so it was all a little bit too raw.

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And that, you know, that incredibly hurried way she just has to go and how everything sort of cuts short, but...

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Remember, all those powers are short.

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It's like puberty.

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I'm sort of raging out of her and she's got to get, but the scene where she goes to Janeway and says, like, I think I need to go.

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It's so understated.

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It's beautiful. it's not at all what they're doing in this episode.

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And so there's no justification for why she behaves this way.

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It's actually unpleasant to watch.

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And I think, I think Jennifer struggled to play it.

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Not just necessarily because she has personal issues or there were things about the show that we're weighing on her or whatever, but it's just like, how do I even play this because this is not the character that I played for 3 years, that this is nothing like her.

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And she never gets to play that character.

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No, even at the end, when this is resolved, right, and she's going off and she's in the transport room and poor Ethan Phillips, he's trying to give her something.

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Oh, sweetie, I've brought you something, you know, to rekindle something of that case that we saw before.

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No, Lian's not interested at all.

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She just goes, oh, all right, t-rah.

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Get us on the transporter pad.

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I think there's one line that's really actually quite good, and it plays that quite well.

86
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Oh, why couldn't this have just been Kez comes back and she's had a wonderful time exploring the universe and we just have a nice fun episode where we catch up with her.

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That would have been so much better.

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So what I kept thinking was, imagine if this had been a season one episode where we saw Kess from the future, come back and try to destroy the ship.

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And in that case, does it work better as a season one episode, because the bulk of the action takes place during season one, just 2 months after they arrive in the Delta Quadrant.

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And actually that sort of idea where a sort of twisted dark mirror version of Kes comes back and they have to remind her what it was really like for her to be on the ship.

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But even that, even that I don't think would have worked.

92
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But I think it would have been less offensive.

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But what I what I did find was, if I'm going to say, look, they've had an idea.

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It can't possibly work.

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It traduces the character in all sorts of ways.

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They can't justify it in dialogue.

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So the core of the thing doesn't work.

98
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I still think that as a Star Trek episode, as an episode of TV where things happen and there's a plot, I actually think it does a pretty good job and it doesn't do the usual voyager thing of wasting time or having characters explain things that we've just seen, although I think there's probably one example of that.

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Generally speaking, Cass has a plan and we see her carry it out.

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She's given a chance to interact with all of the characters, which is kind of what we want to see.

101
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And there are proper stakes that are not cheated. cheat our way out of.

102
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I'm not for 12nd do I believe this mad plot to get the Vedians to take over the ship and for her to kidnap.

103
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I've never invested in any of it because I'm like, okay, will this clearly never happened?

104
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None of this ever happened. all going to be reset at the end of the episode.

105
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But most importantly of all, it is that central performance because do you remember Warlord, right?

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She was vivid as hell.

107
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She's running around rooms tearing off bloody things off the wall, snogging men and women and having the best time chewing the scenery, Shatner style.

108
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Yeah, she's just so contained and quiet and meek, and it's no kind of a villain, and that's what they're trying to portray her as, even when she's sort of being clandestine, you know, and pretending to be the good cares.

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There's no sort of look into the camera and winking or anything.

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Nothing that would make any of that stuff really fun to watch.

111
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It's just baffling They're clearly not going for that. and I don't know why.

112
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I don't know who thought it was a good idea.

113
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Well, Berman and Braga thought it was a good idea.

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And I think it has something to do with Braga as well, because Braga is much, much, more, I think, at home with enterprise and TNG, where the primary focus is the weird spaceshit that's happening and the characters are less important.

115
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And he's come up with some weird spaceship that he wants to do.

116
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It's not terrible.

117
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You know, Baraga stuff is never terrible.

118
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Um, but it isn't any of the character stuff that we started off with.

119
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And I think taking us back to season one of Voyager, which I really liked.

120
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That was one of the things I enjoyed about the episode was the chance to see how different it was back in season one. really isn't that different.

121
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Okay, the sets look exactly the same.

122
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There's a few haircuts that are different and the doctor's on a screen.

123
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That is it.

124
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Well, but you'd forgotten all of that stuff, and that's done better later in episodes like worst case scenario and stuff, isn't it?

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Where we get to see what the sheep used to be like.

126
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But this does remind us of the part of Voyager that I enjoyed a lot that season one.

127
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Yeah, remember when the show was good.

128
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Oh no, we had Muse last week.

129
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You know, it's not too bad at the moment.

130
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No, no, no.

131
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I mean, like, it's not terrible at this point, but all of that stuff, you know, having Samantha Wildman in it, having Tuvok being called Lieutenant, having the doctor on the screen, having the doctor being more brash, you know, people being rude to the doctor, the McKee stuff is still important somehow.

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All of that stuff, I think, is a little bit more kind of interesting and it's nice to see all that stuff.

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Again.

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We see we see Carey, don't we?

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We see Joe... you know, your fabulous Janeway Hair that you love.

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I like that.

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So, you know, like, I think there's stuff there that is not terrible.

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But if you can't buy the central thing and you absolutely can't because it's nonsense, then it's going to sabotage the episode and make it less fun to watch.

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The worst fair, right?

140
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And I just can't believe they tried to pull this off as convincing.

141
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The worst bit is where, you know, they managed to stop Kez in the past and go, right.

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This is what's going to happen in the future, all right?

143
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And then we cut to the future.

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And she's like, oh my god, I forgot that we have this conversation in the past.

145
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What?

146
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Like, what the fuck?

147
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But isn't the simple solution that they changed the future and they hadn't had that conversation?

148
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Do you know what I mean?

149
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That conversation hadn't happened when Kess comes on board the ship, but then she made it happen.

150
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Do you know what I mean in her past and that changed her past.

151
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It's not, oh, I forgot, which is so stupid.

152
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But then wouldn't that have made it happen all the time?

153
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Oh, I don't know, it was so stupid though.

154
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And just the fact that they try and pull it off.

155
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I was like, 0 yeah, we did have that conversation, didn't we, in the past?

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So bad.

157
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But there's a terrible solution to that, which they don't seem to hit on.

158
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It's very strange.

159
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Well, I can't wait.

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I mean, I'll tell you what, there was some fairly good special effects in this, I thought. but also some pretty dismal ones as well.

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There's a bit where Kez walks down the corridor so clearly matted as the sort of corridors are exploding around her.

162
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But I think that shot is actually pretty great.

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And I think the shot where part of the hull gets ripped off as well.

164
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And it's clearly being done to contrast with what they're able to in series one.

165
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Do you know what I mean?

166
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Like, to see that sort of stuff happening, you know, in the 1st few months of Voyager.

167
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There's an attempt to do that and I think that works as well.

168
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More than anything, it is the emotional, the lack of an emotional connection to the episode.

169
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That is the most baffling thing of all.

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In the, this is in built.

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Yeah, she was somebody we were invested in for 3.5 years.

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It should be a given that when she comes back, we feel something.

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And I just got nothing.

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Nothing at all.

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When she turned up on the screen, looking hideous, I was like, what is happening?

176
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Yeah. have we done?

177
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Yeah.

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I mean, think about Wesley coming back a couple of times.

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Think about the game or the 1st duty, you know. like those were great.

180
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Those were great moments.

181
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And this was just completely blown.

182
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Yeah.

183
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Just for the sake of, I think it's one of those ones where you have the incredible visual at the end of the cold open and Rag has gone that, you know, that sick.

184
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We need to do that, but is then completely unable to construct an episode that justifies it because it's nonsense.

185
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Maybe about poor you go, oh, let's think up a different gray visual. not do that.

186
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That's right.

187
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Well, I'm ready to watch 45 minutes of very stupid television.

188
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Let's do that.

189
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We always do. especially when we're in the 90s.

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As you'll notice, Nathan's added a special stupidity tab to the randomiser.

191
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That's right, you 2 can select the 90s tab now and just watch those 4 shows.

192
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Oh, no way. sorry.

193
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All the right wingers telling us. is when Star Trek was at its absolute best.

194
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Well, let's find out, shall we?

195
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Let's see.

196
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All right, I will count us in. 543, two, one, and we're off.

197
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Ta da.

198
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Voyager in space.

199
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Here we go.

200
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As usual.

201
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Okay.

202
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Oh, Jane Wade looks pissed.

203
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Yeah, so I don't think this scene works because it's stupid and I think we know that he's not being dressed down.

204
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Do you know what I mean?

205
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Like, and is she being mean to him?

206
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Is she making him think he's being dressed down?

207
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Like, they shouldn't be playing it quite as, as, as broad as this.

208
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We'll keep using that word.

209
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Now, but what does work is when she brandishes the cake and that beautiful Kate smile was on her face.

210
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And you're like, oh, I'll give you anything. you know?

211
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And when he says it was a fire hazard and she smiles.

212
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Also, the way she rolls her eyes when she gets summoned to the bridge.

213
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She goes some great pain in this. blow out the candle for me, please.

214
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Just for me.

215
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. adorable.

216
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:11.399
That is great.

217
00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:16.740
And what's really good is when we go back to this scene later, it's a different take.

218
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.139
They don't just use the same tape.

219
00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:20.759
They don't just use the same thing.

220
00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:22.019
They get them to do it again.

221
00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:26.039
I think this sort of rock pool here is what Voyager calls humour, you know.

222
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.360
Yeah.

223
00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:30.179
Yeah, but very dismal, isn't it?

224
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.299
Actually, that cake doesn't look very edible.

225
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:33.720
Does it?

226
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:34.500
It looks like a candle.

227
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:35.100
No.

228
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.679
Yeah, yeah, I don't know why it's shiny and blue.

229
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:42.600
It's been spray painted, I think.

230
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:44.100
That's the sort of the silver platter.

231
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:44.940
It looks like a hat.

232
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:48.840
Put the hat on too, Mark.

233
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.879
Put the candle on your head.

234
00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:59.700
But hooray that they've actually remembered that Jane Ware and Schuvok have some kind of a friendship, which has long been abandoned in the show.

235
00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:14.880
Well, again, it's because the 2 main characters here are Tuvok and Janeway, and so we have to introduce them at the beginning because Tuvok's going to be a focus character because he's the one who can detect the time thing.

236
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:23.579
Um, and he's the one, he's the one who is the biggest source of the difference between season 6, Voyager and season one Voyager.

237
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.700
Oh, boy, look at Paul Cares on the screen.

238
00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:28.859
Dear, oh dear.

239
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:34.259
Now that's what, 20 a day, and a bottle of whiskey's got to do to you, all right, in the intervening years.

240
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:48.960
So, Kes, Jennifer is 20, uh, when the show starts, she's 25 here, um, she doesn't, that's so young, and it had such visibility.

241
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:52.259
Maybe maybe that's what happened then.

242
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.599
Maybe it was just a bit...

243
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.940
They all said about her in those 1st 3 years.

244
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.160
She didn't integrate with any of the other actors.

245
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:05.759
When they weren't performing, she went off on her own and she didn't, she wasn't involved in like the group activities.

246
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:06.960
Oh, here we go.

247
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:07.319
Look.

248
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:10.019
Yeah, see, I think this looks amazing.

249
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:14.460
It is fake, but I mean, it's Voyager in, in, you know, what year is it?

250
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:16.079
1999 or something?

251
00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:17.519
2000 and something?

252
00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:23.160
Um, you know, like it's, it's, I think it's as good as they can do and it is as strike good as they can do.

253
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:23.880
It's so strong.

254
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:34.140
I'm like focussing more on the fact that the special effect doesn't work than the special effect itself, which is a shame because the actual the corridors blowing in looks incredible.

255
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:35.640
Yeah, I think it looks amazing.

256
00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:38.039
And there's practical light on her, reflecting it.

257
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:39.599
Like, I think it is a pretty good shot.

258
00:18:39.660 --> 00:18:43.440
But it's such an irresistible shot that they put this stupid episode.

259
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:46.500
You know, they created this episode to justify it.

260
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:47.579
But immediately it just doesn't work.

261
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:50.759
My brain is working overtime going, well, why is she doing this?

262
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:52.259
Why has she come back on board?

263
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:53.460
Why is she tearing it apart?

264
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:55.019
Like, and guess what?

265
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:56.880
We'll never know.

266
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:57.420
I know.

267
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.240
Because she can't even articulate it.

268
00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:01.319
It's so dumb.

269
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:02.700
Like, it's so dumb.

270
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.000
Yeah, like if she'd done something bad.

271
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:08.160
I'm trying to think, what would I have done?

272
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:10.259
If I really, really wanted to do this episode?

273
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:15.900
Has she killed a bunch of people by mistake because her powers get out of control?

274
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.799
Is she angry that she was encouraged to do this?

275
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:21.359
The big species she gets.

276
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:24.480
Nathan, is that she goes, you took me away from my home.

277
00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:25.500
No, they didn't.

278
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:26.700
In caretaker.

279
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:33.119
You came to Janeway and had a 5 minute speech where you tried to convince her to take you.

280
00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:34.140
Yeah.

281
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:35.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

282
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:36.599
Brandon, you wrote that.

283
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.859
Dude, did you forget?

284
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:43.380
Well, and Brian Fuller is the one who came up with the idea of how to write Kes out as well.

285
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:45.599
You know, he's Did he write the gigs?

286
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:47.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

287
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:55.799
Well, he either has a story credit or he writes it, but he's in Michael Taylor, for God's sakes, he gave us counterpoint, you know, like he can write it.

288
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:57.420
Well, that's what I'm saying.

289
00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:02.339
I don't think that this is a badly structured or badly written episode of TV.

290
00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:06.299
I just think it's a really, really badly misjudged one.

291
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:08.880
All of this stuff, I think, works really well.

292
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.579
If it was someone else came aboard the ship.

293
00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.880
I mean, I was watching the...

294
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.839
Angry Harry Kim?

295
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:21.420
The sort of the labyrinthine plot unfold and I was just getting more and more angry.

296
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.039
So let's see, this all makes sense.

297
00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:35.099
Yeah, I think that, you know, like I like the frock, I like her dress, you know, I think that Michael Westmore's ageing makeup is shit and was always going to be shit and I don't know why they thought that was a good idea.

298
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:38.579
It sort of looks like a load of latex hanging off her face, doesn't it?

299
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.119
It's very odd. where you can see the things around her eye sockets.

300
00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:42.839
Do you know what I mean?

301
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:46.559
Where they've built up around her eye socket, so she looks like an alien, you know?

302
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:50.940
This is the future I've got to look forward to, then count me out.

303
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.579
I mean, that's pretty cool.

304
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:55.019
Now, she wasn't in the shop then.

305
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:59.279
She burst in all the walls and that was the way she stopped the guards from stopping her.

306
00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:03.720
Oh, look, the great meeting of 7 as she is now and cares.

307
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:07.440
I think she just, she goes, get out of my way replacement.

308
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:08.880
State your intentions.

309
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:12.480
Well, I don't think I don't think that they get to interact, do they?

310
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:15.480
Because they're in A plot and B plot, they don't really interact much.

311
00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.400
I think they're in the same room at some point in the gift.

312
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:21.359
Is this the only way that she can go back in time then?

313
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.460
Uh, well, she wants to go back to Voyager.

314
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:33.359
So she wants to go back onboard Voyager in order to punish for her to when she was on a camper and go, do you know what?

315
00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:34.859
Don't leave. don't.

316
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:35.279
Yeah, yeah.

317
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:36.119
Bet she needs to.

318
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.500
We wouldn't have an episode then, would we?

319
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:38.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

320
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:42.660
Yeah, and I thought using the warp core, using her power to do the warp core, all of that's fine.

321
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:43.559
Do you know what I mean?

322
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.079
Like if she has special magic powers.

323
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:49.799
I think killing B'lana and not...

324
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.660
Yeah, but that was the point where I was like out of it.

325
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:56.279
So that there's a reset here because we're not killing B'lana in this stupid episode, are we?

326
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:58.680
But that's that's normal, though.

327
00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.799
You know that everything's going to be okay.

328
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:02.940
Every 5 minutes.

329
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.920
No, but it's a time travel thing and so you know there's a way out of it.

330
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:09.900
But the big thing is how do they get out of it?

331
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:14.460
We do this so often on Voyager, these boring time travel episodes.

332
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.000
You know, we did relativity last year.

333
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:20.700
Next year we're doing it all again in the finale.

334
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:22.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

335
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:28.500
How many times do we go back in time to when Voyager was good?

336
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:33.660
And you know what?

337
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:34.440
God bless her.

338
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:39.660
She's a little uh, I don't want to say chunkier, but there is, her frame's a little bit different.

339
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.259
It's like, oh, obviously, it's been a couple of years since the original.

340
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.460
But I just got nothing from her as the younger cares at all.

341
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:55.259
No, and like, I think she's playing that properly because she's like uncomfortable in this role because she is angry old, Kes.

342
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.059
But it's not fun to watch.

343
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.460
Why bring her back and get her to play someone else?

344
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:01.200
Someone completely unlike cares?

345
00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:02.700
So is this the past?

346
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.759
I'm sorry, Belano's hair did not look like that in series one.

347
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:08.339
Yeah, it's meant to be the past.

348
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.720
Do you remember she had really short air in series one?

349
00:23:12.779 --> 00:23:14.700
And the makeup was totally different.

350
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:21.900
But what they did was give her curly hair in season 6 and straight hair in season one.

351
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:23.880
So they did, that's the hairstyle.

352
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:25.859
You know what it is, right?

353
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:27.599
You've got the doctor come in here, right?

354
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:31.440
There was that wonderful relationship that they had in series one to three.

355
00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:34.319
But because of their stupid fucking premise that they've kicked in.

356
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:39.059
We can't return to that because she's behaving in a sort of suspicious way.

357
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.279
So there's no feeling in these scenes at all.

358
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:41.940
No.

359
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:44.279
But, but you do get Bob.

360
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:48.599
You do get the best Robert doing his season one acting and that is actually fun.

361
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.640
Like, I'm happy to see that, you know.

362
00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:52.680
I'm just happy to see him.

363
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:57.359
Well, yeah, but all of this stuff that's been abandoned as the show has gone on is all back.

364
00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:59.579
Did you say undergoes?

365
00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:00.299
chosen a name.

366
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.819
I thought maybe pasta, you know, something like that.

367
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.799
Do you know what he settles on?

368
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:05.339
Do you remember?

369
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.059
A mighty name, may I say?

370
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:13.019
Well, yeah, I don't think that sticks, though.

371
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.660
If he's not called Joe in Academy.

372
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.980
I am out, all right?

373
00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:20.759
Oh, here we go.

374
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.200
In the airport expay.

375
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:23.460
Yeah.

376
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.220
Do you remember when Kez in series 2 Cold Fire?

377
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.000
She made all the plants come alive in her wonderful sequence.

378
00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:33.180
Yeah, yeah, but you're right.

379
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:37.440
There's something because she's playing this character because of this stupid premise.

380
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:41.099
There's no real pleasure in seeing her here, is there?

381
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:43.920
No, it's so strange.

382
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:45.240
Yeah, yeah.

383
00:24:45.299 --> 00:24:49.319
Poor, poor, innocent season one cares is knocked out and shoved in a cupboard.

384
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:50.579
Yeah, shoved in a drawer.

385
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:55.200
That's right Oh, they still can't quite do 2 of the same actor in one shot.

386
00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:56.279
No no.

387
00:24:56.339 --> 00:25:00.660
I mean, they can, but they spend all their money on blowing up the corridor.

388
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.339
Ooh, what is?

389
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:05.220
Look how long that bit of food's been sitting there, that prop.

390
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:08.160
I mean, that Jesus concealed all over the burger.

391
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.660
Oh, here we go.

392
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:13.859
Voyager banter.

393
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.920
Uh, yeah, the greasy.

394
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:19.680
Why does he call her sweeting instead of sweeting?

395
00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:20.759
sweetie.

396
00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:25.799
I think that's just the spell, the stupid, um, I think he calls her sweetie.

397
00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:28.140
I think the subs are wrong.

398
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:33.000
Oh, look, they're remembering how Janeway was just obsessed with coffee in series one.

399
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:33.480
Do you remember?

400
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:34.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

401
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:39.359
She walked into the mess all that time and she went, black coffee, black now.

402
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:42.660
It's like, oh, well, I've got some things that are coffee black now.

403
00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:52.980
Well, I mean, they do in prodigy, they do kind of land on that as an important character point as well, I think.

404
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:58.200
She's absolutely convinced that there's coffee in that nebula in one episode, you know.

405
00:25:58.259 --> 00:25:58.859
That's a great line.

406
00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:00.180
It's a great one.

407
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.019
But yeah, she's in sick bake, coffee in the nebula.

408
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:04.920
Season one man.

409
00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:05.579
It was good times.

410
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.599
And so once this, this doesn't go anywhere.

411
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:11.759
See, this is unpleasant to watch, isn't it?

412
00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:12.180
I think.

413
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.039
Well, she's not charmed by him.

414
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.119
Because she should be.

415
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:19.920
No, and she just, like, just says now, can I have the coffee?

416
00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.619
And because she wants to kill them all.

417
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:27.359
Like, she's there to kill everyone and it's just like, what, like, what?

418
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.220
You know what it feels like?

419
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:47.880
It feels like they have written an episode, right, that forces Jennifer Lien in the situation that she's actually in in real life and that is coming back into this group of people after several years of being away and everybody's moved on and feeling utterly dislocated and uncomfortable.

420
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.240
And they've actually written that into the episode for some reason.

421
00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:59.160
But the, the version of this, which is, which takes place in season one, I don't think suffers from these problems.

422
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:00.180
Do you know what I mean?

423
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.880
Like they could have done this plot, I think.

424
00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.660
Oh, whatever we'd all be going, my God, is this all coming in the future?

425
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.740
But you wouldn't because we changed the future so that it never happened.

426
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:12.480
So do you know what I mean?

427
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.079
But that would be that would work.

428
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.700
Maybe it works in season one.

429
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:19.259
Do you know what I mean?

430
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:20.759
Imagine that, old Kes.

431
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.339
Because remember she's young, we know she's 9 years old.

432
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:24.240
We go on and on.

433
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.039
She's got a nine-year lifespan.

434
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:31.259
So, you know, we were all wondering what, she's going to look a state by season seven, you know, what's going to happen?

435
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.000
I just remembered, you know, relativity.

436
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:34.799
You know, to try and traffic one in series five.

437
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:37.980
It's the Penol maps. is a great episode where 7 goes back in time.

438
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:39.960
That goes back to season one as well.

439
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:41.220
Yeah, okay.

440
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

441
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:43.859
So maybe it's a thing that they do.

442
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:46.319
Oh, I'm so sorry.

443
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.119
I've just poured coffee all over your pad.

444
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:49.440
I mean what are you doing?

445
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:53.519
Yeah, but I do like her reaction.

446
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.839
I do like a reaction.

447
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:55.920
But yeah, does this work?

448
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:59.160
Why doesn't she just go back in time, right?

449
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.079
Knock out little cares.

450
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:02.400
Take her away.

451
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.619
That's what she's doing.

452
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.680
Yeah, but why did she kill them as well?

453
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:08.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

454
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.299
Yeah, because and you know what, right?

455
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.940
You could have Samantha Wildman in Voyager anyway.

456
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:16.799
You don't have to go back to series one.

457
00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:18.720
She's still around. know.

458
00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:27.420
I know, but I think having her, having Joe Carey, um, you remember when we almost had semi-regulars in the show?

459
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:28.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

460
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:29.579
Do you know what I mean?

461
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:30.960
That's a season one thing.

462
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:35.579
Like, it feels more like season one, we're calling Tuvok Lieutenant instead of Commander.

463
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:42.839
Um, all of that stuff. and the Vedians, which have to be the most successful, the better aliens.

464
00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:46.500
And we get them back for the last time. you know.

465
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:47.460
That's a good.

466
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.519
I mean, I love the bit where the clamp grabs Voyager.

467
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:53.640
It starts sort of gnashing through the hole.

468
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:54.539
That's quite cool.

469
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:59.880
In a way that they couldn't really have achieved in season one quite as well, you know, like I'd like that.

470
00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:02.220
Oh, here's button hair, Jane Way.

471
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.779
Yeah, yeah, I like that.

472
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.339
It's not my favourite hair.

473
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.460
I know that's great, isn't it?

474
00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:13.079
They did well to last as long as they did.

475
00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:14.759
It was season four.

476
00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:20.759
Oh, I love her later hair when she goes very sort of late 90s.

477
00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:23.579
Well, yeah, his American lady hair.

478
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.460
I like when she has the long ponytail at the back.

479
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.160
So it looks like this from the front, but it's long at the back.

480
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:30.359
That's my favourite hair.

481
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:35.640
I mean, when she takes her hair down in series one and it just flows all down her shoulders.

482
00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:37.380
She looks so feminine.

483
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:38.400
Yeah.

484
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:39.660
Beautiful, wonderful.

485
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:41.640
Where she just says in resolution.

486
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:43.440
Do you remember when she came out in the gown?

487
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.180
No wonder Chakoto couldn't resist her.

488
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:45.960
Wow.

489
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:46.740
Yeah, no, exactly.

490
00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:49.019
Do you know what?

491
00:29:49.079 --> 00:30:07.740
I was sorry, there's nothing about this episode, but I was watching a clip the other day about from a convention where Mulgrew and Beltran are talking about resolutions, and Jakotay goes, and I was trying everything to seduce her down on this planet, and she was obsessed with this fucking monkey all the time.

492
00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:12.180
Okay, it's like, it was a really interesting little monkey.

493
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:13.200
What can I say?

494
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:17.819
They have great fun taking the Mickey out of these episodes, you know.

495
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.319
That's awesome.

496
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.839
It's a shame Liam's had such a terrible time.

497
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:22.920
She could come and talk about this.

498
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:24.720
Yeah, exactly.

499
00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:25.500
Exactly.

500
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.019
It's very sad.

501
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:33.900
So we have, I mean, we have this thing too, which gives us interesting visuals.

502
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.079
And one of the things that struck me because I've watched some 90s.

503
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:47.099
I've watched some, you know, a Kurtzman trek this week and how much more interesting space looks than it used to look in early 90s trek.

504
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:57.359
And so here it's taking place against these vacuoles and we have to do some special space things or whatever, but it just gives us some more interesting visual, um, which is something.

505
00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:05.400
Tellingly, you know, Tom Paris and Harry Kim, look exactly the same in series one as they did in series six.

506
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:07.079
They don't know any different at all.

507
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:10.319
I think the worst Robert has less hair.

508
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:15.539
Um, I think his hairline is been moving back.

509
00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:21.839
And again, like this is well structured in that we get to give her time with everyone.

510
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:27.119
So time with the doctor time with Neelix time with Catherine time with Tom.

511
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.640
All of those major relationships.

512
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:31.740
But what do we get from that?

513
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.079
Because she's being duplicitous.

514
00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:34.920
Exactly.

515
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.980
Do you know what I mean?

516
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:43.980
Like they're giving us in a sense what we want to see, but they've fucked it up because of the basic stupid premise.

517
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:52.680
And because she's sort of doing all these weird, nefarious, technobabbly things, they're not talking about their relationships, you know, which absolutely they should be doing.

518
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:56.400
Well, because it's the past, you know, like that's the thing.

519
00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:58.259
I think that's that thing.

520
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:00.119
I know, but it's not our path.

521
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:01.559
This is us catching up with her now.

522
00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:06.420
So we should be reminded of all the great things about her character and all of the great relations.

523
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.140
Well, not great.

524
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.000
I mean, she was never that great, but...

525
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.880
I mean, she's, I like her. positive things about her.

526
00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:12.359
Yeah.

527
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:13.980
She's got that...

528
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:15.299
Naomi Wildman.

529
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:20.220
Always very exciting when little moppets turn up, isn't it?

530
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:21.720
Yeah, yeah.

531
00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:27.599
So, Naomi Wildman is, um, half caterion.

532
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:35.519
And that name is used, in fact, for the aliens from the game.

533
00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:40.200
Um, so they're different, aren't they?

534
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:41.039
They've got different...

535
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.839
Oh, that was so great.

536
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.640
Remember where 90s trek was really great.

537
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:45.779
Yeah, yeah.

538
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:47.700
But then this, do you know what I mean?

539
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.859
Like, again, it's just a reminder. of where we've come from and apparently we had one last year.

540
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.740
It's been forgotten about.

541
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.779
Oh, we died, did he?

542
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:58.319
Oh, sorry.

543
00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:59.579
Two episodes ago.

544
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:01.920
Oh, was it?

545
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.640
In series 6?

546
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:04.440
Yeah, in Friendship one.

547
00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:07.319
He comes back in friendship one, just a couple of... series seven.

548
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:08.640
That's the end of series seven.

549
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:09.240
Yeah.

550
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:10.559
Oh, okay.

551
00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:12.000
Oh okay.

552
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:12.779
So we see him in this.

553
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:19.380
We see him once in series seven, but between maybe the end of two, and this he's never been again once.

554
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.700
So he's in, so they bring him back in series 7 to just kill him, is that right?

555
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

556
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:27.839
Okay, that's right.

557
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:29.460
Even Joe Hogan got better than that.

558
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.400
Do you remember where they found his bones in the cave, those dinosaurs?

559
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:33.180
Yeah, that's great.

560
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.400
Oh, look at this. tearing apart the quarters.

561
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:38.400
She's even doing that half-hearted. only knocked a chair over.

562
00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:39.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

563
00:33:40.019 --> 00:33:40.259
Yeah.

564
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:40.859
That's right.

565
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.299
She was tearing the corridor off before.

566
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:43.799
Now she's just pushing some chairs.

567
00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:46.140
Would you were tearing that set to pieces of warlord?

568
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:46.680
Give it some.

569
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:52.259
But if this had been a season one episode.

570
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.539
The more I watch this, the more I think this is a banger if it's in season one.

571
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:01.920
Unfortunately, I've got something unfortunate to tell you, it's a series 6 episode.

572
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:03.839
And it's terrible as a result.

573
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.220
Okay.

574
00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:07.619
Look how grisly the patians are.

575
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:15.659
So this is Vaughan Armstrong as a Videan captain, and he will be back as Admiral Forrest in Enterprise.

576
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:21.840
I do like the, look at the way he's got his sort of one bit of hair going over his scabby face.

577
00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:23.760
Because, you know, I think they're great.

578
00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:26.340
They're properly good aliens of Adeans.

579
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:26.820
They really good.

580
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:30.840
Because they kind of make you recoil a bit because it's so disgusting.

581
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:38.400
I mean, we'll never forget what we're in faces when he took away that poor man's face and slapped it on his own itself.

582
00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:40.920
So amazing.

583
00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:41.820
That was great.

584
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:43.199
Yes.

585
00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:43.800
Yeah.

586
00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:45.719
So now we know.

587
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:56.579
She's contacted Evide and she's basically selling out the crew to kill them because she wants to kill them all, which would have been great in series one and super weird, but horribly upsetting now.

588
00:34:56.579 --> 00:34:58.559
Well, they do try and give her emojis.

589
00:34:58.619 --> 00:34:58.980
Don't they?

590
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.559
She go, you know, you infected me with your ideals.

591
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.619
You have ideas of exploration.

592
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.239
Exit stuff.

593
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.760
Wow, you monsters.

594
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:11.639
It's almost like if they could, if.

595
00:35:11.699 --> 00:35:13.800
And they can't, because none of it makes any sense.

596
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:18.599
If they could have made that scene work, then maybe you could justify this.

597
00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:20.639
Yeah.

598
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.260
Yeah. but I don't think they could.

599
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:23.219
I don't think they could.

600
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.199
I think they could if this wasn't a thing that really happens.

601
00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:29.579
Do you know what I mean?

602
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:30.840
Like, I don't think there's things that really happened.

603
00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:31.559
It's all made up.

604
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:39.840
And, and, but if a, a hypothetical future, Kes, who by the end of the episode hasn't ever happened.

605
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:58.320
Um, uh, you know, if she comes from the future and is is mean and evil and stuff and Jennifer's still into it and is playing her and being fun and fooling the rest of the crew and we haven't missed her so we don't feel so bad about this because she was in it last week and she'll be in it again next week.

606
00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:00.300
I think this works incredibly well.

607
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.780
But I think this is just terrible.

608
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.059
Poor old Chuvol, right?

609
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:13.739
They mostly only drag him out now when something weird's going on and he goes, you know, I can sense something strange happening in the room.

610
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:25.380
And Janeway should say like, do you remember what, what, like that little girl in flashback that you kept seeing or, you know, that time we were being experimented on by aliens and didn't realise it or...

611
00:36:25.380 --> 00:36:27.840
She should listen to him.

612
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.739
He's always right.

613
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.119
He is always right.

614
00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:31.260
Well, he's too far.

615
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:31.739
He's awesome.

616
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.679
Yeah.

617
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:36.960
Yeah, anyway.

618
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:38.699
What the hell was this cloud they're going into here?

619
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.039
So it's full of subspace vacuoles, whatever they are.

620
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.599
It's like Swiss.

621
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.460
That's not the sort of thing you don't really want to.

622
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.460
Is that what's behind you there on the Zoom call with a subspace facial?

623
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:50.820
Yeah.

624
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.659
Yeah.

625
00:36:51.719 --> 00:37:04.079
And but it means that they are trapped, you know, like they're going through this sort of space and they're trapped and it gives us a little bit of sort of interesting business sort of interesting business.

626
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:05.760
That doesn't waste too much.

627
00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:07.079
Right, right.

628
00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:12.960
Apart from Jane Way's hair, this could be, see, series 6. this whole shot on the bridge.

629
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:13.739
Okay.

630
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.300
Yeah, yeah.

631
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:22.679
If I was doing a DS9 episode in series 6. and was going back to season one, I'd see a visually different show.

632
00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:27.239
Everybody, I mean, Cisco, Jesus Christ. everybody would look completely different.

633
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:29.519
All the relationships would be completely different.

634
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:30.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

635
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:32.159
But this show doesn't do that.

636
00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:36.539
It's quite telling. trapped in amber as much as we are.

637
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:37.500
Yeah.

638
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:38.340
Yeah.

639
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:42.179
But I still thought that there was enough and it was sort of fun to revisit it, you know.

640
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.579
There was that wonderful bit in series 4.

641
00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:45.780
It's the gift again.

642
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.800
I think it starts with all of the Borg implants all over the ship.

643
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.079
I think it's the 1st show, the gift. you know?

644
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:53.219
We've just come out of school.

645
00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:56.099
Scorpion and they've made all the changes.

646
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:57.780
Yeah, that would have been so great.

647
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.280
Yeah.

648
00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:01.800
No, week after, everything's back to normal.

649
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:02.639
All fixed.

650
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:05.039
Well, just like the big rip in the hull this week.

651
00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:09.059
How do you play these sort of scenes where you're sensing a disturbance?

652
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.320
Is it a bit like indigestion?

653
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:13.500
Some people, actually.

654
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:17.940
I think team looks like it just or when you've got traffic gas or something.

655
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:22.500
That was the note he got from the director.

656
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:31.079
Although I do like, you know, the fact that you've got Naomi and her mother and Carey.

657
00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:35.219
It's like, oh, please, why can't you have a semi-regular guest cast?

658
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:36.960
It just adds so much to a show.

659
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:38.039
It really does.

660
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:38.820
It does.

661
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.099
Even TNG adds 7 people.

662
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:42.539
Mr. Malt, you know?

663
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:43.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

664
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:48.059
And Barclay and Rose sometimes and, you know...

665
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.219
And all the characters that came in and out, Gower.

666
00:38:50.219 --> 00:38:53.460
There's a gun, Waxana, and, you know, those like a queue.

667
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:55.199
All those people that we saw every now and again.

668
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:56.340
Yeah.

669
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.340
It was a very odd call, wasn't it?

670
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.820
just taking all those characters out and making it just about 7 people.

671
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:04.199
I know.

672
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:04.920
It's terrible.

673
00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:07.380
It's the stupidest thing about it, I think.

674
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.440
I mean, it's always a bit stupid.

675
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:11.280
Do you know what I mean?

676
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:18.119
It's like we're going on this mission and it turns out everyone in the ship is, you know, in the opening credits and that's normal.

677
00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:20.039
We still do it in strange new worlds.

678
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:20.940
Do you know what I mean?

679
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.940
Like that's absolutely a Star Trek thing.

680
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:32.099
But it is artificial and if they can do a little bit more to kind of paper over it and just make it seem like there's more than 9 people on the ship.

681
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:33.719
That's pretty good, I think.

682
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:41.099
Discovery did a sort of effort. effortlessly without infringing on the main cast.

683
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.019
You add Denver and O war and people like that there.

684
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.619
But, yeah, it was still about those central characters.

685
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:53.039
What's really baffling, Nathan, is the fact that they then focus in on those 7 characters and fail to develop half of them.

686
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.340
Yeah, you've given them so much time.

687
00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:01.920
But again, it's doing the plot thing, isn't it?

688
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:04.139
It's just doing the plot stuff.

689
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:09.539
Yes, Chevot goes, you know, I think you might have died here once, you know?

690
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.920
Yeah, yeah.

691
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:11.699
Yeah.

692
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:12.900
I was shocked by that.

693
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:18.239
I'd forgotten that he, she just kills her. and then, you know, get to see it again.

694
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:23.280
No, but I didn't feel much if I'm honest, and I probably should.

695
00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:26.460
Well, except that when it's a fake death like that.

696
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:36.960
Having everyone feel very bad about it, as we saw in our most recent episode, vanishing point where we were breaking the new star, she's father.

697
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:42.179
But we happen to have this small amount of goo that we can send you. senity.

698
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:43.800
Like, that's bad.

699
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:44.880
Do you know what I mean?

700
00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:45.539
Like that's bad.

701
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:52.800
And so what happens is we killed Bilana, then we go into the past, so we don't have to watch everyone distressed about Bilana's death.

702
00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:54.059
Did you see that?

703
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:54.840
then it unhappens.

704
00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:56.099
Did you see that?

705
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:59.340
So Chuvok was sort of going into synaptic distress or something like that.

706
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:01.679
And then there was a close-up.

707
00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:04.619
There was a close-up on K as if she was actually feeling something.

708
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:05.579
Oh my god.

709
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.860
Maybe I do still have some feelings about this.

710
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.980
But unfortunately, the end still looked utterly blank.

711
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:13.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

712
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.019
I think the close up was supposed to be, oh, God, am I doing the right thing?

713
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.619
But, I mean, how do you how do you play this?

714
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:21.059
It's so fake.

715
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.980
And even if she's not checked out.

716
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:28.500
She's kind of like, like Cassie's now suddenly evil, but how do I play that?

717
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:30.179
Like when she was playing the warlord?

718
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:36.059
If this is series one and she's playing hypothetical future evil case, then she gets to have fun.

719
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:37.380
Here, it's just unpleasant.

720
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:39.900
Do you remember as well?

721
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:41.519
In Caretaker, they rescued her.

722
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:45.239
She was bruised and being bloody raped and things by the Cazon.

723
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.820
How could she be angry with these people?

724
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.860
They've showed her nothing but kindness.

725
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.780
And she loved them.

726
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:52.920
Do you know what I mean?

727
00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:54.780
Like she was so kind to the doctor.

728
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.699
She was so kind to Janeway.

729
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.699
She has that beautiful deep caramel voice.

730
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.800
She's got that pretty smile.

731
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.199
Like, I like Kess a lot.

732
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:10.800
I don't think she's a great character. and I don't think she's a great character because I don't think they gave her enough focus.

733
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:12.900
Like when they did, she was really fun.

734
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:14.280
I think Cold Fire is great.

735
00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:16.800
I quite, I still quite like before and after.

736
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:18.059
I know we had a lot of issues with it.

737
00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:20.760
I think she's really good in it though.

738
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:22.860
She has a lot to do in that episode.

739
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.260
Well, she's certainly given it more welly than this.

740
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:26.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

741
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.099
You shouldn't give much less welly than this, though.

742
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:35.940
I do like her yelling at these some, these video, though.

743
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.519
It's just like, yeah, well, suck it.

744
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:45.420
You know, it's your problem because you want me to help you. shouldn't we be seeing some kind of conflict?

745
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:54.119
Because like, at the end, where Janeway just, you know, gives her a very pat speech and she goes, she goes, oh, my God, I remember how much I love you, people.

746
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:56.159
What am I doing?

747
00:42:56.219 --> 00:42:57.239
There's no conflict.

748
00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:00.960
There's no conflict And if, did you know what I mean?

749
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:08.880
If evil future cares comes in, then we don't have to have conflict because she's evil, but this is our cares, you know?

750
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.179
We'd be thinking then, is what the hell happened to make her life?

751
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

752
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:13.440
That's right.

753
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.480
They could have made it worse.

754
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:22.320
They could have made she could have blown up a whole planet with her amazing mind powers, but because then it will never have happened at the end, then it's fine.

755
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:23.219
You know what I mean?

756
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:26.099
And we're still asking, what the hell happened to make her like this?

757
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:27.239
And we're getting no...

758
00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:27.900
We never found out.

759
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:29.039
No.

760
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.159
They were nice out there in the universe, though.

761
00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:33.539
Like, that was so bad.

762
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:34.380
Do we ever loan?

763
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:39.179
No, she turned her into this sort of...

764
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:41.219
Murderous, like a mess murderer.

765
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.039
Who's going to kill 100s of people for no reason.

766
00:43:44.099 --> 00:43:45.179
Oh, look at this.

767
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:48.000
These massive claws coming out of the podian ship.

768
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:50.579
Straight into them.

769
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.780
Yeah, it's so good.

770
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:56.699
Go on, quick, take the pit with Jaco saying. hes not needed.

771
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.619
Oh, no, Janeway's there as well.

772
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:12.480
It's really visceral as well, because the camera shakes, the computer generated camera, when the, when it's not just the real live camera on the bridge set that shakes, but the actual camera shakes, I think, when the thing hits the, hits the hull.

773
00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:18.719
The documentary drone on the exterior of the ship. is suffering puppeting.

774
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.980
It's great.

775
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:20.820
That's pretty great.

776
00:44:21.059 --> 00:44:22.860
Oh boy.

777
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.260
Actually, no, I'm lying, actually.

778
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.739
Do you remember Harry Kim did have wonderful hair and syrup to one or two?

779
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:34.320
It sort of hung over his face in a very early 90s sort of boy bandish sort of a way.

780
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:35.219
It was pretty great.

781
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.019
It was very early, yeah.

782
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:38.639
Yeah.

783
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:42.000
Oh, I, we always have no readings. and they're the same.

784
00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:48.960
We always knew things were bad because Jane Ways and Kim's hair would sort of be in disarray in the tensest moments.

785
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:50.099
Exactly.

786
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:50.820
Exactly.

787
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.000
And Chakotay was quite hot in those early seasons.

788
00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:54.599
Do you remember?

789
00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:56.340
He had a bit of gray in his hair early.

790
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:57.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

791
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.000
Yeah, they seem to have, they seem to have died it out.

792
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.579
They found just for men in the future.

793
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:04.199
Yeah, that's right.

794
00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:08.340
Oh, boy.

795
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:10.559
Does she start talking to her younger self now?

796
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:11.940
I'm gonna get you out of here.

797
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.940
How do you play that?

798
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.340
I know, because it's so stupid.

799
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:22.800
It's just ridiculous I'm taking you home.

800
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:23.639
No.

801
00:45:26.940 --> 00:45:32.519
Now this is where I, oh, it just gets so annoying.

802
00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:36.239
This whole confrontation with younger kids, older kids, Saint Jane Wen.

803
00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:45.179
But we have Videans firing those fabulous space guns in the corridor and stuff and we haven't actually interfere with Kes's plans.

804
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:46.860
Like she can't leave.

805
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:48.960
Deadlock was better.

806
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:49.800
Do you remember?

807
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:50.460
They would go around.

808
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:53.340
And they were literally going around with their scanners going.

809
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.780
Oh, he's got a very good spleen.

810
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:55.019
Right.

811
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:56.579
Keep him for later, you know.

812
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:00.539
But again, remember once that starts happening.

813
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:05.340
We know that some timey thing's going to happen so that it's not real or whatever.

814
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:10.619
You know, it's the same problem, but I think it's better constructed.

815
00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:11.340
This is so bad.

816
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:14.519
It's like, don't show your face, love.

817
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:15.360
Do you know what I mean?

818
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:17.519
She's unconscious, so we can't see her face.

819
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:19.079
Who is that extra?

820
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.840
Just like, get in my get in my chest, yeah.

821
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:22.260
All right.

822
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.639
It's easy in a dress.

823
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:31.679
I don't want to see Kez throwing Jane way across the room.

824
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.300
No, that's no fun, but this, you know, no, look, they're doing the threshold thing.

825
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.400
Phase of fire going across the door.

826
00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:42.179
It's wonderful It's awesome That is so cheap.

827
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.039
Just a laser beam down across.

828
00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:45.480
Come on.

829
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.119
Okay, now let's see.

830
00:46:48.179 --> 00:46:49.679
She's a prisoner on this ship.

831
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:51.900
No one's a prisoner here, cares.

832
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:53.219
I was a child.

833
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.380
You corrupted me with your ideas.

834
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.059
What ideas?

835
00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:00.239
Acceleration.

836
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:02.039
I believed you.

837
00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:02.880
What?

838
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:09.179
You corrupted me with the ideas of exploration and discovery.

839
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:13.980
Oh, thank God, we're back on the bridge, discharged the antigraviton pulses.

840
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:14.639
Oh, thank God.

841
00:47:14.699 --> 00:47:16.559
But this is kind of exciting.

842
00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:17.519
Do you know what I mean?

843
00:47:17.579 --> 00:47:24.420
This is an exciting confrontation where they tear themselves away free from the big things, you know, like I think that's great.

844
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:27.420
Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

845
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:32.579
So she's telling Janeway now that in 3.5 years she's leaving the ship.

846
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:34.619
That doesn't get reset.

847
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:36.780
So how does Janeway not know?

848
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.460
So, wait, wait, wait.

849
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.300
No, no, no.

850
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:48.900
So it does, she does she doesn't know, she does know when it comes back because it hasn't happened yet.

851
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:55.980
So she's leaving it, but she's telling Janeway in the past that she's going to leave in 3.5 years.

852
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:56.579
Yeah.

853
00:47:56.579 --> 00:47:59.340
So why does Jake Weigh act surprised when that happens?

854
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.739
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's true.

855
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:02.400
That's true.

856
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:04.260
See, you start doing these things.

857
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:06.659
It falls over like a house of cards.

858
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:15.900
Whereas, yeah, so, but I do like when we replay the scene, but now Janeway remembers this thing having happened.

859
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.760
Yeah, but I don't like it when we replay the scene and Kez suddenly remembers.

860
00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:23.519
Oh, but it hadn't happened then.

861
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:24.900
It hadn't happened.

862
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.739
That was it.

863
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:31.679
When she left, she hadn't come back in time yet. and changed the past.

864
00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:40.619
And so when she leaves in 3.5 years, fury hasn't happened yet, so Janeway doesn't remember this because it hadn't happened.

865
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:42.480
But now she has gone back in time.

866
00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:44.159
So it should have always have happened.

867
00:48:44.219 --> 00:48:47.039
No, no, no, that's not how it works in this episode.

868
00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:49.800
That's not how time works. time works.

869
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:51.900
You go back into the past and change what you mean.

870
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.840
Yeah, it hadn't changed before.

871
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:59.099
Yeah, I know. fucking stupid is what it is.

872
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:00.840
No, no.

873
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:01.920
But that all makes sense.

874
00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:02.820
That all makes sense.

875
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:04.139
Oh my god.

876
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.380
Even her falling over when she got shot then was terrible.

877
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:08.280
Did you see it?

878
00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:11.219
But she literally kills cats.

879
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.440
Like she just kills her and that's awful.

880
00:49:13.500 --> 00:49:14.760
Why would we want to see that?

881
00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:16.860
But it literally happens.

882
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:18.360
So she's dead, right?

883
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:20.579
And that's the thing that happens.

884
00:49:20.699 --> 00:49:24.539
And now that's the version of what happened.

885
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:25.380
It hadn't happened before.

886
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.880
That was a culmination, which Janeway.

887
00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:34.380
Which case, attack Janeway, and then Janeway...

888
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:35.639
Janeway murders her.

889
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:40.980
But but that didn't happen the original in the original season one, right?

890
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:43.739
So she's gone back and changed season one.

891
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:48.300
And so now when we go back to season six, she remembers all of that stuff having her.

892
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:49.500
Oh, I know what you're saying.

893
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.659
I just don't know that it makes any sense to me.

894
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:55.019
Like, I feel as if now she's gone back and done it.

895
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:55.860
It always happened.

896
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.960
No, no, no, it hadn't happened before.

897
00:49:58.019 --> 00:49:59.099
Are you sure?

898
00:49:59.099 --> 00:49:59.880
She changed it.

899
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:05.219
Yeah, there was a run through where it'd have normally when season one happened as we saw.

900
00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:13.800
And then she goes back to season one and changes season one and gets herself killed in the process and now that changes things.

901
00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:14.940
I think it all makes sense.

902
00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:16.679
I just don't do any of this.

903
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:20.639
But I, this is Braga.

904
00:50:20.699 --> 00:50:32.880
Like, you have Braga, and when he decides, later on, he'll decide that high concept things are too hard and the show will be about, you know, like, they don't even do high contact or character. just nothing.

905
00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:34.139
Nothing.

906
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:36.360
But when he does high concept stuff.

907
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:42.360
I think it's well thought through and I think it's fun and interesting, but this is, he gets all of the character stuff.

908
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:44.940
He just brutally, tragically wrong.

909
00:50:45.059 --> 00:50:45.360
I think.

910
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.780
Okay, what's happening now?

911
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:50.400
Oh, this is where they go right.

912
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:50.880
This is real.

913
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:52.500
We're going to tell you now.

914
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:56.280
In the future, you're going to be totally evil and try a murderer, right?

915
00:50:56.340 --> 00:51:01.260
So would you please try and remember that we were really nice to you in the past, okay?

916
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:04.980
No, no, no, but she's saying, you like us, right?

917
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:06.300
You do like us.

918
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:07.079
She said, yeah.

919
00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:09.300
You remember that you chose to be here.

920
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:09.719
Yeah.

921
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:13.320
Well, can you just record a thing and say that to your other self?

922
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:16.079
so that she remembered.

923
00:51:16.139 --> 00:51:16.920
Yeah, yeah.

924
00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:18.300
Is this scene now?

925
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:18.960
I'm sorry.

926
00:51:19.019 --> 00:51:23.579
When she is, I just can't get over this bit when she...

927
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:25.440
Oh my god, yes, of course.

928
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:30.239
But, but we had that chat, didn't we?

929
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:35.760
But, but, but, but it hadn't happened.

930
00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:37.079
Like they hadn't had that chat.

931
00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:38.820
That's why he's still doing this.

932
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:41.760
It makes sense.

933
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:43.440
Are you sure?

934
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:44.699
I'm not convinced.

935
00:51:44.699 --> 00:51:48.480
But again, this is a slightly different take.

936
00:51:48.539 --> 00:51:50.820
Oh, Kate, that smile.

937
00:51:51.780 --> 00:51:52.800
See, this is much nicer.

938
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:56.880
It's nice to see, you know, giving a birthday cake to somebody, didn't it, is seeing a murder, somebody.

939
00:51:56.940 --> 00:51:58.199
Yeah, that's right.

940
00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:07.139
That's right It's going from that to that in a single episode. that's right Watch out on Voyager.

941
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:11.280
You'll either get a birthday cake or you'll be shot to death one or the other.

942
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.900
And then smile.

943
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:18.599
Come on, I know, I know.

944
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:21.480
It's a glorious, isn't it?

945
00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:24.480
Oh, she's still smiling when she walks on the bridge.

946
00:52:24.539 --> 00:52:30.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's wonderful How lovely she's thinking to have a character scene in this more terrible episode.

947
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:31.980
Yeah.

948
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:35.219
And then suddenly she remembers.

949
00:52:35.340 --> 00:52:40.139
So now she remembers, oh, shit, this is happening from our at my end now.

950
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:43.260
Why is this not all documented?

951
00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:45.179
They know exactly when this is coming.

952
00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:47.159
Like, oh, they couldn't tell anyone.

953
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:48.420
She didn't want to tell anyone.

954
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:54.000
She sent the doctor out and only Tuvok and her know about this past thing.

955
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:55.139
Yeah exactly.

956
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:57.179
So why are they not preparing for this moment?

957
00:52:57.239 --> 00:52:58.920
Why is there not a diary?

958
00:52:58.980 --> 00:52:59.760
This game's prepared.

959
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:00.659
Kes is coming today.

960
00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:02.940
No, she's literally just remembered.

961
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.119
And gone, well, yes, right. today right?

962
00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:10.260
It's because there's no there's no Stardate this episode.

963
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:13.500
Sorry, I knew I was going to shout a lot watching this.

964
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.780
There's no Stardate.

965
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.559
And so that's why she doesn't know because she looked at her calendar this morning.

966
00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:20.400
Fine.

967
00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:23.519
Then roughly in 6 years, I'll set a diary date.

968
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:25.559
Evil cares is coming.

969
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:27.960
Well, yeah.

970
00:53:28.019 --> 00:53:29.519
But she knows it now.

971
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:35.579
Conveniently, everybody forgot, and then they remembered.

972
00:53:35.699 --> 00:53:38.460
Well, no, yeah, or it didn't...

973
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:42.119
So we could have the intervening years and all of it makes sense.

974
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:48.960
But again, what I do like is that it's sorted.

975
00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:54.179
Like they don't, at this point, they've had 6 years to prepare and she just fixes it.

976
00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:55.019
Do you know what I mean?

977
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.300
Like it, it, it, they solve the problem.

978
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:58.860
But the solution is so dumb.

979
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:00.719
Like, the say is dumb.

980
00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:06.599
They knew she was coming and she was going to tear apart the ship and people were going to die. couldn't they have just stopped that from happening somehow?

981
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:07.679
dies, who dies?

982
00:54:07.739 --> 00:54:09.960
Well, she's tearing out bulkheads there.

983
00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:11.400
I'm assuming someone's in those rooms.

984
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:14.400
Oh yeah, but they're not exposed to space.

985
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:15.780
They're interior corridor.

986
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:17.519
She's not mind those people.

987
00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:19.320
They're just the little people that we don't talk about.

988
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:20.159
That's right.

989
00:54:20.219 --> 00:54:21.480
No, they're smashing people up.

990
00:54:21.539 --> 00:54:23.460
They're smashing the things up, but here we go.

991
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:25.139
This is the bit in engineering.

992
00:54:25.380 --> 00:54:26.760
Yeah.

993
00:54:26.820 --> 00:54:28.260
Just terrible.

994
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:34.260
And like, you know, I don't blame Jennifer for this scene. where she goes, How do I play this?

995
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:35.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

996
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:36.480
Bless her.

997
00:54:36.539 --> 00:54:38.519
That awful makeup.

998
00:54:38.579 --> 00:54:41.159
You blame Janeway, but the choice was yours.

999
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:43.440
It's all very strange.

1000
00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:45.780
You made a decision to leave a combo.

1001
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:46.559
Thank you, brother.

1002
00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:48.000
You finally remembered the part.

1003
00:54:48.059 --> 00:54:49.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1004
00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:50.400
Why has she forgotten that?

1005
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:52.380
How has she forgotten that?

1006
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:55.139
It was so it was 6 years ago.

1007
00:54:56.699 --> 00:54:59.159
Why is she taking revenge?

1008
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:00.119
Like, what's going on?

1009
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:01.260
It just makes no sense.

1010
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:04.980
She must have been through something terrible, you know?

1011
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:10.619
No, it was all that discovery and exploration.

1012
00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:17.820
And those ideals, she was forced to do those dangerously positive ideals about exploring space.

1013
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:21.900
And then she goes, oh, yeah, but yes, yes.

1014
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:24.360
Again, oh, yeah.

1015
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:25.079
I know.

1016
00:55:25.139 --> 00:55:25.860
I know.

1017
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.840
I just was, do you know what?

1018
00:55:27.900 --> 00:55:30.239
I may have felt it because you know the screen.

1019
00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:34.260
Yeah, I think I would often attack Montelli, but I may have done at this point.

1020
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:37.019
I mean, it's so bad.

1021
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:38.280
It's such a bad idea.

1022
00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:44.400
And it matters when you do this to a character, I think.

1023
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.539
She's literally telling her what happened in her own past.

1024
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1025
00:55:50.099 --> 00:55:51.179
How could she have forgotten it?

1026
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:52.440
It makes no sense.

1027
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:59.699
There's no nothing, they, it's not possible, I think, to come up with a satisfactory way of getting.

1028
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:00.539
You can't got it.

1029
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:01.980
Do you not remember?

1030
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:03.119
In before and after.

1031
00:56:03.179 --> 00:56:06.840
They said when the accompanies get older, it's like dementia, isn't it?

1032
00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:08.460
It's like, oh, they wouldn't be great.

1033
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:09.300
It would be terrible.

1034
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:17.579
But at least if she, like, she's so old that she's sort of forgotten, there's the details are a bit muzzy. that maybe?

1035
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:20.760
Well, it's nearly her whole lifespan, remember?

1036
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:24.119
Like, they live to, but, you know, like when you're...

1037
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:25.380
You wanted me to remember.

1038
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:27.059
Oh, I was.

1039
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:28.260
Oh, yeah.

1040
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:32.639
Oh, and she's doing it with this awful makeup.

1041
00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:35.159
Oh, boy.

1042
00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:36.059
Yeah.

1043
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:36.780
Yeah.

1044
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:38.039
And that's it.

1045
00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:40.679
Because the premise is very dumb. the memory.

1046
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.880
I buried...

1047
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:46.019
I just forgot, she goes, just because of the plot, I forgot.

1048
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:48.300
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous.

1049
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:49.440
Just absurd.

1050
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:54.300
Oh, Joe, look, Paul Cage.

1051
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:55.920
She's trying to give this to Wellies.

1052
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.099
I like I like the line.

1053
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:00.719
Does it matter which guy goes home?

1054
00:57:00.780 --> 00:57:04.320
This is the scene right, if you're going to do this ridiculous episode.

1055
00:57:04.380 --> 00:57:10.139
This is a scene that could have landed after all the fireworks where we're saying goodbye.

1056
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:13.739
Look at that, she's dead behind the eyes, Jennifer Leanne.

1057
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:15.659
I think...

1058
00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:21.780
I like, he says just looking and she says, do you see anyone you know?

1059
00:57:22.739 --> 00:57:24.960
And he just is just you.

1060
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:26.099
I like that exchange.

1061
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:30.719
But I don't feel that there's any relationship here. very much back.

1062
00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:32.460
Ethan's giving it all.

1063
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:33.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1064
00:57:34.019 --> 00:57:34.440
Yeah.

1065
00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:36.539
But it's not a bad scene.

1066
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:37.800
Like, it's not badly written.

1067
00:57:37.860 --> 00:57:47.400
I would have loved for this to have been an episode like the gift where she just reconnects with everybody and has seen to be...

1068
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:55.500
Robert Picardo and scenes with Kate Mulgrew and just had a genuinely quiet and moving character tale.

1069
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:57.840
They just can't do it, can they?

1070
00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.820
No, no, no.

1071
00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:02.519
No, it's funny.

1072
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:11.039
I think, is it just it's Voyager, and it's weird, crazy high concept shit, and then next time it'll be the cheese, and then, do you know what I mean?

1073
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:20.219
It will be macro viruses and stuff, like it's just incredible nonsense every week and that's, you know, why the boy gets made into a museum.

1074
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.159
Yeah. ship just goes off and that's it.

1075
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:24.480
We never know what happens to her.

1076
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:26.340
Let's assume she gets home, shall we?

1077
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:27.360
I suppose.

1078
00:58:27.420 --> 00:58:28.500
Yeah, maybe.

1079
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.420
Yeah, yeah, not good.

1080
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:31.920
She never gets mentioned again.

1081
00:58:31.980 --> 00:58:32.760
Never.

1082
00:58:33.059 --> 00:58:38.280
I'm trying to think what lands in DS9 is spot in series 6.

1083
00:58:38.340 --> 00:58:52.559
I think it's the sound of her voice, which is exactly why I just described you there, a quiet character tale about relationships and everyone's struggling during wartime. in high concept, timey thing in there, you know.

1084
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:56.880
But they're in completely different places, doesn't it, when it comes to characterisation.

1085
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:04.260
And so I think Voyager in series 6, because we've done a lot of series 6, now we've done barges of dead.

1086
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:09.599
We done Alice, we've done Muse, we've done collective.

1087
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:15.059
And that's a real mixture of episodes, right, in terms of good and bad.

1088
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:20.940
And I think it is mostly all high concept of the week with some occasional character stuff thrown in.

1089
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:35.760
So it's just as how well they execute the high concept, I think, rather than, especially in terms of the writing, rather than, oh, they're interesting characters to follow at this point because I'm not sure that there are.

1090
00:59:35.820 --> 00:59:46.619
Well, I think, like, think about Muse, which I think is an absolute top tier episode of Voyager and a great episode of Star Trek.

1091
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:59.460
And it just relies on the fact, not that B'Lan's a very well delineated character, but on the fact that Roxanne gives just a reliably superb performance.

1092
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:06.719
And because it's about the show and about Star Trek in all sorts of ways, so it matters, it's meaningful.

1093
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:14.039
And it's about the process of storytelling and it's got all sorts of things to say, you know, like I think that's properly good.

1094
01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:15.059
Here.

1095
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:36.539
We've got like a central image which has taken over Brannan Braga's brain and a decent time travel plot that's well executed and well done, and absolutely no regard for a character who has mattered to us.

1096
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:41.400
And so it's dumb because it makes no sense from a character standpoint.

1097
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:47.460
And it's unpleasant. the ultimate character assassination in Star Trek.

1098
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:49.440
I can't think of the worst one.

1099
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:50.639
Really?

1100
01:00:50.699 --> 01:01:03.539
And like, by the time we get to, we're nearly at the end of the season, and that's where they're trying to do a sort of big 7 of 9 Borg episode, and it's Unimatrix zero, they can't even do that right now.

1101
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:07.619
It's a bit of a shit.

1102
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:09.000
This was your chance to shine.

1103
01:01:09.059 --> 01:01:13.920
You had series 6 and 7 where you were the only trek on the airwaves and you gave us fury.

1104
01:01:20.820 --> 01:01:26.519
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next.

1105
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:35.159
And I have control over the randomiser, and so we're going to choose from a 21st century series of Star Trek.

1106
01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:46.440
In fact, we're going to choose from among the 2 episodes of Starfleet Academy that have aired at the time of this recording.

1107
01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:50.940
It's your only way of forcing me to watch modern television, isn't it?

1108
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:54.059
That's right Well, we did do it with Strange New Worlds.

1109
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:59.460
We watched the 1st episode of Strange New Worlds together and that turned out pretty good, I think.

1110
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:08.340
I've added Starfleet Academy to the Randomiser last week and it is ready to go for me to press the button.

1111
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:10.920
Star Trek 90210, don't you?

1112
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:12.119
Well, yeah.

1113
01:02:12.179 --> 01:02:15.059
There'll be plenty to talk about when it comes to that.

1114
01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:18.659
As long as they're all hot, I'll be fine.

1115
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:20.219
They are all very hot.

1116
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:22.260
So I'm going to press the button.

1117
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:27.960
And it's season one, episode two.

1118
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:30.300
Oh, God. beta test.

1119
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:35.760
It's very good, but I don't think we're going to choose it.

1120
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:37.980
No, I will press the one again.

1121
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.019
We could be a while.

1122
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:41.039
Okay.

1123
01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:48.659
So it season, one, episode one, kids these days, um, and no, is that what it's called?

1124
01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:51.719
It's actually a really great name for it.

1125
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:56.039
Because, of course, it's about kids.

1126
01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:58.860
Oh, God.

1127
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:08.460
And it's about these days, which are, of course, the 31st century or the 32nd century or wherever the hell we are in this version of Star Trek.

1128
01:03:08.579 --> 01:03:10.860
How far off the night is Trek, are we here?

1129
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:12.420
Sort of the period of 90s trek.

1130
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.579
So 8 or 900 years or something.

1131
01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:16.139
It quite a long time.

1132
01:03:16.199 --> 01:03:16.679
Okay.

1133
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:19.980
So you'll see Admiral Vance is in this 1st episode.

1134
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:24.840
Tignataro's Jet Reno is in the 2nd episode.

1135
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:32.039
The doctor is obviously in this and it's just our doctor from Voyager, who is still with us all this time later.

1136
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:36.599
It's a whole host of handsome Twinks, I hope.

1137
01:03:36.659 --> 01:03:37.679
Yes, yep.

1138
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:38.219
Yep, yep.

1139
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:39.300
And older people as well.

1140
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:42.599
So there's a big cast.

1141
01:03:42.659 --> 01:03:48.780
I think it has interesting things to say about the present time and we will talk about...

1142
01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:53.099
We'll certainly talk about the reaction from the Nazi Star Trek fans, you know.

1143
01:03:53.099 --> 01:03:54.900
Yeah, people very, very cross.

1144
01:03:54.960 --> 01:03:56.639
Gem Hadar woman.

1145
01:03:56.699 --> 01:03:58.980
Have you seen the interview with Earth?

1146
01:03:59.099 --> 01:04:00.960
so funny She's going.

1147
01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:04.019
Yeah, I've been reading all this stuff online.

1148
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:06.780
There's no such thing as Gemadar women.

1149
01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:12.719
And she goes, for God's sake, it's the fucking future, for God's sake, just, and it's all made up.

1150
01:04:12.780 --> 01:04:15.960
Like, of course, it could be Gemini.

1151
01:04:16.019 --> 01:04:17.340
It's all fiction.

1152
01:04:18.659 --> 01:04:21.659
We're not chronicling the future.

1153
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:26.400
Well, it was like the people going, what, a Klingon medical student, Klingon son.

1154
01:04:26.460 --> 01:04:27.420
Doctors.

1155
01:04:27.420 --> 01:04:31.440
And it's just like, so you don't think they're going to mention that in the episode?

1156
01:04:31.500 --> 01:04:34.139
You don't think anyone involved knows that?

1157
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:45.119
Like, it's, these are people who are not very good at literary criticism, and furthermore, they people who don't deserve to enjoy another hour of Star Trek for the rest.

1158
01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:46.619
There is a lot of them, isn't there?

1159
01:04:47.460 --> 01:04:49.500
It's really odd.

1160
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:52.079
I think they're the people that voted for Trump, you know.

1161
01:04:52.139 --> 01:04:53.940
I think they might have been.

1162
01:04:54.420 --> 01:05:03.000
Yes, well, you know, few or you may have been very stupid indeed, but not quite as stupid as that contingent of Star Trek fans.

1163
01:05:03.059 --> 01:05:03.840
Absolutely.

1164
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:05.519
They probably like Fury.

1165
01:05:05.579 --> 01:05:07.920
Oh, I expect they do.

1166
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:10.860
Remember when Star Trek was highbrow, you know?

1167
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:14.880
Well, this will be fun. looking forward to it.

1168
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:18.599
Yeah, well, I mean, I wouldn't watch it otherwise, so let's do it.

1169
01:05:18.659 --> 01:05:19.739
Brilliant.

1170
01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:37.619
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1171
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:43.260
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme is composed by Cameron Lahn.

1172
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:49.079
This episode was recorded on the 20th of January 2026 and released on the 23rd of January.

1173
01:05:49.139 --> 01:05:53.699
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Starfleet Academy, kids these days.

1174
01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:16.739
Oh, OK. Is it a normal episode, like 45 minutes?

1175
01:06:17.579 --> 01:06:19.440
Oh, Christ, okay.

1176
01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:22.260
First episode 70 minutes, a 2nd episode 60.

1177
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:25.139
Have you got access to it?

1178
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:25.679
Yeah.

1179
01:06:25.739 --> 01:06:28.019
Yeah, so I'm paramount, I think.

1180
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1181
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:30.119
Yeah, yeah.

1182
01:06:30.179 --> 01:06:31.440
I'll watch it over the weekend.

1183
01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:32.639
So much fun.

1184
01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:35.219
Holy shit, it looks amazing as well.

1185
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:40.679
Like it just, I was thinking about the gray fucking corridors of Voyager as I was watching it.

1186
01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:45.960
Um, and it's, It just looks incredible.

1187
01:06:46.019 --> 01:06:47.639
It is like the promenade.

1188
01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:49.980
Yeah, I can't wait to see that.

1189
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:51.239
Yeah, yeah.

1190
01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:58.320
And that's that's on board the ship, the Athena, which is the ship that it partly takes place on.

1191
01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:01.019
Yeah, yeah.

1192
01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:04.800
And the earth looks weird, like it's weird.

1193
01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:08.460
You know, because they're the 1st class to go back to Earth.

1194
01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:19.739
Um, because we saw Starfleet Academy open in Discovery in, I think it's probably season 3 because all of the, all of the new recruits are standing.

1195
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:31.380
All of the new cadets are standing like one. 5 years away from one another as the speech like Michael gives a speech or whatever or someone gives a speech.

1196
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:31.980
I can't remember.

1197
01:07:31.980 --> 01:07:33.239
Vance, possibly.

1198
01:07:33.300 --> 01:07:37.860
I was teaching somebody the other day, you know, about dead space shots.

1199
01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:41.099
Yeah, I was going, no, Mark Donaldson.

1200
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:41.940
I was going, no, no.

1201
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:49.380
I can't remember what he was watching, but I knew there was a swing, a camera swing round with someone on the right and then all that space at the left.

1202
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:53.099
I said, when you start noticing it, it's everywhere.

1203
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:55.199
It's so bad.

1204
01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:56.820
So funny.

1205
01:07:56.820 --> 01:08:00.059
Unless we're supposed to take in how lovely the sets are.

1206
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:01.679
Yes, yeah.

1207
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:03.360
I can't imagine.

1208
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:04.980
That is tapestry.

1209
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:15.059
That ridiculous moment in tapestry where Beverly literally moves everyone to the corner of the shot so that they've got room to beam in in front of the camera.

1210
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:15.960
It's so great.

1211
01:08:16.020 --> 01:08:18.479
Oh, I like it when they step as well.

1212
01:08:18.539 --> 01:08:20.220
You know, when they sort of step back.

1213
01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:22.560
So there's room for people to come.

1214
01:08:22.859 --> 01:08:24.779
It's so good.

1215
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:26.880
Just move the camera back.