Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back on board the USS Voyager, which I think is my fault
and we are watching season six, episode 14 Memorial, which 1st
aired on the 2nd February in the space year 2000, written by
Brannan and directed by Alan Croker.
Now, let me ask you something.
Is this the only episode of Voyager that you've fornicated to?
A formative episode for me in many ways.
I mean, I would go as far as to say that if Memorial wasn't in my
life, I wouldn't have gotten married, I wouldn't have had a 16
year relationship because I had an inn into convincing my ex
husband, Simon, around my house, you know?
And I was messaging you while I was watching this going, oh, my
God, I can see the bedroom.
I can see I was watching this on the bed. with no lights on and
just the light coming from the TV.
I mean it really did take me back.
However, despite the fact that um fornication was enjoyed during
Memorial, doesn't mean I'm giving this a free pass because I think
there might have been a reason why I was fornicating during it.
You know, I may have just sort of nodded off a bit watching the
start of this episode. to sort of take your mind off it.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, to be fair, lots of babies could be made via Voyager this
way.
I have to say that I made some crack in last week's episode that
this was just going to be the inner light only shed.
And it's not the inner light at all.
It's doing something quite different.
It's not...
Yeah, but it isn't very good.
Um, but like I have to say that I kind of like what it's trying to
do, I'm interested in what it's trying to do, and I just think the
problem is that they don't pull it off. and I think there's
problems and performance problems and stuff like that and just the
usual kind of voyager problems.
But I have to say that I didn't hate it.
I didn't think it was a waste of my time.
And I have been thinking about it a little bit afterwards.
You've really made me realise how, and I, you know, you know I
have issues with Latter Day Star Trek in many, many ways, but one
of the things they get really well is they'll drop a premise and
it will inform the characters, right?
The characters we know will learn something about them, yeah?
And the best of 90s trick does that.
But the worst of 90s trek drops a premise on us that we don't
really care about.
And then tells us nothing at all about the characters.
And at the end you go, well, what the hell was that all about?
And I think that is an issue here in that it puts the characters
through a really sort of horrific experience.
But there's a scene where Neelix talks to 7 about mistakes in the
past, but Stefan isn't actually experiencing anything within this
episode like Neelix is.
So I'm like, well, why aren't we talking about Neelix's past
year?
He's the one that's suffering the trauma.
So they don't make the link.
The other issue I think this episode has is, I'm a bit muddy on
the details of this war and these people.
And I think they think the horrific act of murdering all those
people is enough to sell that premise.
Whereas I kept saying to you, this reminds me so much of remember
which is a much more traditional Star Trek episode.
It's a bit like violations, but good, remember, wherein a group of
people come onto the ship, and one character absorbs all the
memories of one of them, and that group of people in their past
did something absolutely horrific.
There's like a whole holocaust sequence that B'lana experiences.
But it's all channelled through her character and there are lots
of scenes of her investigating, you know, what's going on
throughout it.
So you get a real sense of what B'Lanas taken from this as well in
that episode and Roxanne Dawson is just a really good actress.
So she sells both the Balana parts of it and the parts of the
story that she's seeing.
The real issue here.
The big, big, big issue here is that for some reason, 6 years into
this fucking show, they give this material to Garrett Wang, Robert
Duncan McNeil, Robert Beltran, and Ethan Phillips, and none of
them can pull it off.
Not one of them.
But they know these actors.
They know what these actors can do.
I think, though, that, I mean, easily of those for the best one is
Ethan Phillips.
And I think Ethan Phillips could pull off that kind of melodrama.
But I think the script is the problem.
And I think that, look, I think the script has lots of things to
say and that it's trying to do something.
And like, like I live in Australia and virtually our national day
and ZAC day.
It's not Australia Day, which is um, which is a very contested
holiday, which is about the arrival of Europeans in Australia on
the continent.
But Anzac Day is about a particular battle in World War one.
And when I was a kid.
That Memorial Day was kind of dying out as the people who
experienced World War one were dying, and as we became a bit
disillusioned with what World War one had been about, and World
War one was something to remember, something that should never
happen again, where 1000000s and 1000000s of people died, and were
sent to die by leaders, by European leaders, were sent to fight
each other and die for some reason.
And in my lifetime, we've started to talk about World War I as if
it was a war that was fought to protect Australia's freedoms, which
is just crazy.
You know, where 1000s of miles away.
And so the whole idea of memorialising a war, which is important
both in England and Australia, isn't it?
Like every village, every country town has a World War one
memorial in it, my school has a massive World War one memorial on
the wall of one of its halls.
So that's a hugely important thing, but how and why do we remember
things?
I think the Y is very important here in England because there's
this odd sense of patriotic heroism, about the 2 world wars, where
especially around Remembrance Sunday, If you dare to suggest that
you know, murdering all those Germans was a bad thing.
Um, you're not a patriot, you know, and it's just so weird.
I don't think you can ever justify the atrocities we committed as
well.
So I think I think the moral here is really good.
Yeah, I do too.
And I think also the fact that in some ways memorialising a war
traumatises people, like actually telling them what it was like.
You know, like this is ridiculous, but like Auschwitz has a blue
sky account and they frequently post pictures of people who were
murdered in German camps during World War 2 and give a little bit
of background and stuff.
And, you know, like I follow that amongst...
I have a sensitive filter on those pictures.
I mean, I wouldn't want to be scrolling and just come across.
No, they're not, no, they're not pictures of them dead.
They're pictures that they have of them, sometimes they're
mugshots, sometimes they're pictures of them as children.
And I think even though that's not fun.
Do you know what I mean?
It interrupts my doom scrolling or my news about Donald Trump
every day.
I think it's worth doing.
I mean, I think that even if memorialising those things re
traumatizes people or traumatises them.
That's okay because, and it's what 7 says to Neelix.
Those feelings are there so we don't do it again.
And that's hugely important.
And I just thought that that it's really rare, I think, for
Voyager, to deal with something that important and not flub it in
some way.
Not turn it off at the end, you mean?
Yeah, well, and that was great.
Simple answer where she goes, you know, we're going to keep it
on.
We going to keep it going for 300 years, but we're going to leave
a boy that says, this is here, and if you want to experience this
this is here.
And I think that's the perfect way to win this.
And it's funny because I've obviously seen all of Voyager before
but I couldn't remember how this ended.
And it wasn't 100% certain what the outcome was going to be.
I didn't know what they would decide to do.
And like Jama makes some comment about how, well, Janeway decides
to do a thing and we just have to go with her because she's
Janeway and that's how the show works.
That's how she makes the right decision.
Yeah, yeah.
Both times.
But she makes the right decision here and defends it properly.
And I thought it was really good.
Like, I thought that that was really interesting.
So, like, I think it's heart's in the right place, and I think it
is discussing interesting things.
You know, it's depicting PTSD, but it can't quite do that.
And it's depicting this atrocity.
I can't quite do that.
And because Voyager is not a good enough TV show, I think to peak
those things.
Well, I think in terms of the acting and in terms of the writing
because we have had civilisations depicted in 90s Star Trek, they
are absolutely riveting.
You mentioned the inner light, you know?
We can do this and it can move us, but I was watching those scenes
playing out and I was thinking, oh, how interesting to see the
actors playing different roles rather than, well, what's the next
shocking revelation about this, the history that I'm being shown?
I just didn't really care about the details.
No.
I think the problem is, like, with the inner light, the inner
light's something quite different because Picant's playing
himself.
He thinks he's himself.
He remembers everything. everyone else calls him by a different
name.
And then gradually he grows and becomes one of them and
experiences the life of the people who've left that satellite
behind without ever being someone different because this is a
Brennan Braga kind of puzzle box.
And because it does a kind of lower decks thing of throwing up a
few different possibilities about what's going on here, I don't
think it's super clear to the actors and I don't think it's clear
to us watching it naively, whether these people are possessed, have
been taken over, whether it's really them and their memories have
been wide, but it's them.
I mean, the flashbacks put them in Starfleet uniforms.
So none of that's super clear.
And I don't think it's super clear to the actors.
And so I don't know.
Something is going wrong.
And that typical Voyager away as well.
None of it means anything to anybody.
We won't ever talk about this again.
Everything that the trauma that everyone's gone through in this
episode won't impact anything.
But I think in a way that that's okay.
I think that if this point lands and if it makes us at home think
for a little while about why we memorialise war and how we do that
then it's done its job.
I think those characters should realise something about themselves
within this episode.
Just something.
Something.
But it's not, it's just them all playing different roles.
And at the end, they leave the thing on and off we go.
Yeah.
I mean, they're not playing different roles.
They are still them, I think, all the way through.
They're just placed in this context.
Like they don't have names or anything like that.
They don't think they come from that place.
But it's odd and it's unclear and because it's so high concept
it's one of those things where I don't know how to feel about this
because this isn't like any possible real situation.
I could be involved in.
And I don't know what they would learn about it.
But I guess the closest that we get is that conversation between
Neelix and 7 where she knows what guilt is and what it's for and
why experiencing it isn't bad.
I mean, it's a good scene.
But it's a glimpse in a 40 minute episode of us learning something
you know?
And I just think it really highlights Voyager's biggest issue
which is half the cast are not the best actors in the world.
And they can't do this.
And I'm going to question Ethan as well because I just don't think
there are moments in here where he's given perfectly serviceable
lines and he delivers them in such a bizarre way.
There's a bit in the conference room and I've sent it to you
didn't I, as a video where he goes, you know, it doesn't matter.
All that manners is what we did.
I'm like, why are you delivering that line like that?
I mean, and why did the director let that go through?
Why do you sound like a robot?
It's it's a bizarre performance.
That is a tone that he sometimes takes when he's under stress when
the character's under stress.
That is part of Phillips's performance, Vince.
I don't think that he understands the script.
And I think that's a problem because I do think he is good and he
can convey emotion and he himself, like that character has a kind
of background where it's shady and he has been involved in some
terrible things.
Gara and Duncan McNeil.
They just pitch it at hysteria and that's not convincing because
they're not strong enough access to pull that off. and Belgian.
What is he doing?
I mean, is he there?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I think he's the one who actually, I mean, obviously once we
start seeing Cade in those, in those...
But Beltran, I think, is probably doing the best job of not
embarrassing himself, I think, probably.
I always get the sense with Duncan McNeil, that whatever he's
asked to do hysteria, he's just so embarrassed, right?
So he doesn't kind of commit to it.
Whereas you see Kate come in and she's just furious, you know?
It's like it's precisely how she felt.
The 1st day Jerry was on the set, you know, that's how she was
storming around.
Who the fuck's this, you know?
I mean, this would all be better, of course, if it had the clock
from dramatis persona in it, wouldn't it?
Let's be honest. you know.
What wouldn't?
No, this is a better episode than dramatic persona.
I do think it is it is deeply flawed this episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, well, we should go in.
I don't think we'll be wasting our time.
There's plenty to talk about, isn't it?
absolutely.
All right.
I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Okay, so we're Delta Fly.
Yeah, I like the Delta Flyer.
Oh boy.
That's a cute set too.
It's not a boring set.
You know, we was in trouble.
Who left their dirty plate in the replicator?
Tom.
It wasn't me.
It's a biohazard, says Harry.
But what is that?
Like, it's a replicator.
Do you know what I mean?
Just make it vaporise it.
Like, it's so dumb.
It's so it's so boring.
But that dialogue can be sort of AI generated, on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's not telling us anything as a, it's not telling us
anything.
It is, you're right.
It's like all of them are men.
I mean, you know, how many women have you got?
It's old to have a scene on Voyager where there isn't a woman
involved, though, right?
Because they, yeah.
But I don't know.
See, that's quite good too.
They've arrived home So, I mean, that's it's something.
Why is Neelix on this trip?
I don't know.
All I'd know is if I was the red shirt on this mission with this
four, I'll be like, oh.
Give me the gun.
I'll do it now.
There's about enough personality for one person spread amongst the
4 of them.
Well, maybe not Linux.
I don't, like, I just think that's not fun to watch that banter is
not fun.
Look at Bilana.
Throwing ourselves straight, him, snocking him, guiding him home.
I mean, she gives him gifts the 2nd he walks in the door.
I mean, she is the perfect girlfriend.
She is the best girlfriend.
I want to date her.
She's awesome.
She's so great.
He doesn't realise it though, does he?
No. we'll get there.
I love the doctor in this scene, though.
He is pretty great.
Like, he's desperate to give them all an examination and none of
them wants it.
Like, it's so cute.
And I'd forgotten, you know, here he is walking through the
corridors. obviously in series 6, which is something that we
haven't often seen on untitled Star Trek Project.
Oh my god, here we go.
What sort of surprises it, naughty or nice?
So it's Tom Paris.
Look, I love the fact that he has that desk or that side table
with the lamp on it, you know, that he's got mid-20th century
furniture there.
I think is really great and the couch there.
Like, see those chairs in the chair, in the background, on the
standard lamp?
And, you know, like the couch, all of that stuff is 20th century
which is great.
You're saying all of this, no, no, interests across the last 6
years in this room, you know, furniture, TVs.
But mid-20th century, Earth, they've kind of centred on it, and I
think that's kind of fair.
The TV looks great.
It's awesome.
And the ads are wonderful.
It's called a shingle, Nathan.
Like, all incident was so, so, I did.
They insert them into entertainment programs.
What the hell?
What we doing here?
It's really fun.
I can even reprecated popcorn for you.
And he's still not happy.
No, what an absolute prick.
He says everything's perfect now.
Get me a beer, woman.
Like, what a prick.
Like, why does she not say the replicator's over there, you
fucking idiot?
Like, what?
I think Burma's watching this.
Burma's watching this and going, this would be great.
This is how we should do Enterprise.
This is perfect, you know?
It is exactly right.
And so they do a scene later.
She's hanging off in, Nathan.
Yeah, literally, while he's sipping his beer, watching his
cartoons, when she's talking to him about what happened while he
was away, and he's just completely ignoring her.
She is literally the best girlfriend ever.
And then later, like that scene between him and her is horrible
later.
And what, when he dismisses it?
I mean, when he...
Somebody goes...
I think I've had enough of cartoons and just dismisses the gift.
It's a great gift.
I like this, though. her asleep on the thing.
It's just so normal.
It's unusually normal for Voyager.
Yeah, yeah.
Him watching the TV and her asleep on the sofa.
Yeah, I mean, I thought this scene was charming except for what a
prick Tommy is, you know.
Like just how obnoxious he is.
And clearly the writers, like, Brandon clearly thinks that's
okay.
I do like, I mean, this is how I was watching it back in the day
look, he's watching just by the light of the TV.
I have to say, I was quite impressed with the lighting in this
episode and some of the direction as well.
Well, Alan Croker's good.
He reliable, isn't he?
Oh, is it Croeca?
Oh, okay, yeah, he's really good.
Certainly the claustrophobia.
We were in the cave, sort of crawling through with Harry.
That's some of that stuff, I thought, was really effective.
Because I'm claustrophobic myself.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Okay.
I mean, this, so we go out on something weird is happening on the
telly, which I think is probably not too bad.
Like, that's actually, that's Brannan being weird in a...
But it's sort of forger 101, isn't it?
This could turn into, I don't know.
What's the one we watched recently, you know, where Carolyn
Seymour turned up with a knife, you know?
It could be any Voyager episode where weird things are happening.
Yeah.
Or we're going to be, are we going to be seeing the future in the
TV?
Like, what's the premise of the week this week?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it is very that.
And I think I think that's part of what Hamp is the episode is
because we follow a few red herrings.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, for a while, it's what we think is those 4 men have been
kidnapped and forced to participate in some kind of event.
Um, and even though, uh, you know, Bellana doesn't believe that, uh
and, you know, alternative explanations are put forward, because
we go with that for a while, it takes a while for the episode to
come into focus, I think.
It would make a wonderful lower decks episode, we have Mariner
dishing our wealth, theory after another, yeah, of, you know, every
cliche from 90s trek.
But it's intriguing enough.
It's a, it's a, oh, what's happening here rather than, oh my god
I've got to watch this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's pretty standard Voyager, I think. as you said, it's
sort of standard weird voice.
Remember the pre-title sequence last week with that entire colony
scooped off the planet.
Now that's how you do it.
That was a hook.
That's definitely a hook.
Oh, scoop offing, but yeah.
You got ice cream scoop.
No, the action isn't too bad, right?
It looks quite nice in black and white on the TV.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think it is pretty good.
I think it's pretty great And Seamus...
Races, though, isn't it?
It should have been guns.
Just give them guns for once.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, part of the thing is he sees himself.
Isn't it?
Yeah, and now we're actually getting the flashback and we'll
discover that that's because he's fallen asleep.
He hasn't been transported here, which we might have thought was
happening.
But what works here is what I was complaining about last week on
best of both worlds is everyone's shooting at the same time here.
There's chaos and urgency to it.
Whereas remember, last week it was like, okay, it's your turn to
shoot now.
Now it's your turn to shoot, you know, plot plot.
And he's been shot.
And now we wake up, so we prepare this unfavourably to best of
both worlds, I think.
Yeah, hopefully.
Yeah, that's right.
Um, so I think the problem too is that Brannan wants to, like, um
he doesn't really want to tell the story of what happened.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and because what happened was a fake thing on a space planet
or whatever, it's not real.
But if we were remembering a particular terrible event and we saw
it and we saw what it was like.
But what we get instead of sort of weird glimpses of it, so we get
the thing on the telly, here we're seeing Harry walk along.
I mean, walk along. going to be crawling along this Jeffreys tube
and later on we'll see him crawling along a tunnel in a cave in
exactly the same way.
But we don't see he doesn't see a flashback here, right?
So something, it's kind of horrible, isn't it?
We eventually get to the scene in the cave where he's murdering
those people, but just because he's panicked.
It should be so effective, but unfortunately it's Garrett acting
it.
So he's just sort of screaming, no.
Yeah, I know I know what you're saying about the snatches of what
we're seeing.
Again, I will keep bringing up, remember, because that tells a
linear narrative, a proper story where you're emotionally invested
in the actual story it's telling away from Voyager.
And there's a relationship between the woman that B'Lana's playing
and one of the guys that gets killed at the end.
And so there's your big like dramatic hook at the end of the
episode.
Yeah, because these are people we don't know these people.
But again, like if we were made to care about them.
If the episode made us care about them, then it would be doing
what the memorial is doing.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, if it could do the same thing?
I, you know, you're just, you know, one of your favourite Doctor
Who episodes is demons of the Punjab, where people are
memorialising this terrible historical event, and the episode
itself is memorialising it as well and telling the people at home
watching it about it.
Now here, that was real.
This is a space thing.
But if there was some parallel between what the episode was doing
and what the memorial was doing, that would have been good.
The episode that I'm thinking of is a series 2 Stranger Worlds
episode called Under the Cloak of War, which tells a flashback
story with Mbenga and Nurse Chappell on a planet during the
Klingon war, and again, it tells a single coherent story through
flashbacks and makes us care about it.
That's probably the waste to it, isn't it?
Yeah.
So there's a line, isn't it?
Where, where Braga has the characters say, the memorial's
malfunctioning and so, oh, we're getting a little bits and pieces
we're not getting a real story, but I think that that's just a
cheat.
This scene here now, right?
where he takes Naomi hostage and says, you know, I won't let her
go, you're going to hurt her and all of that.
It's like, what's this telling us about Neelix?
Yes.
Is it telling us that under these circumstances, in reality, if
this was really happening to Neelix, this is how he'd behave?
Or is he literally playing out a scene that happened in the past
via the memorial?
I just don't know.
No, I think the I think the intention is that they all have PTSD
and so they're all suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.
And so Harry's being triggered by the similarity between the
Jeffreys tube and the thing.
Here, this doesn't work at all because, like, I don't know what
happens in the thing that's equivalent to him protecting a child.
We never see it, do we?
No, we don't see anything like this.
But there's clear, you know, uh, Paris is triggered by a gunfight
on the television, uh, in a, in the untouchables, and he remembers
Harry's in the Jeffrey Shoe in a tight space.
Harry's in the cave.
Why?
I think maybe...
Is it like visual shorthand?
Like the most out of character thing niggas could do would be to
hold up a blade to Naomi and threaten that.
Yeah, but he never threatens her.
Like, it's... he's a threat. move right?
He's got the knife in his hand right next to her.
But he's defending her against them, but and like now we're here
with Chakotay, and I don't know why.
Is it a flashback, like what's going on?
And because I, because Braga wants to be clever.
Do you know what I mean?
and wants to wrong footers, he actually is more interested in
doing that in the mystery than in telling this story.
I don't know what happens here.
Yeah, you've hit it on the head there.
It's more about the mystery than the people, isn't it?
And that's just not my end to trek.
I do like a good mystery, but I much prefer learning about
people.
But I mean, if it was, if it was this, if it was this event, do
you know what I mean?
Like if we learned about this terrible event and how some people
who were sent to protect people panicked and it went wrong and
resulted in it, this terrible massacre, like that's a, that's
probably too hefty a, a story for Voyager to actually tell in a
way that, you know, strangely worlds could tell that story or, or
deep say something could get further towards a story like that.
What do you have, you know, isn't there?
A lot of innocent people were murdered.
Yeah, yeah, accidentally.
But we can't tell the story properly or in an affecting way, we
just get little bits and pieces of it, you know. telling it via
these particular characters are, no, I won't stop going on about
it, but like you've got Jerry there.
You've got Robert Picardo.
You've got Kate Mulgrew.
Why are you choose?
You've got Tim Ross, for fuck's sake.
Why are you choosing Ethan Garra and Duncan McNeil?
Yeah, and, you know, I just forget Belgian's ever there.
Well, Beltran's doing the best job, I think.
What is this, the battle's over.
Oh, you promised you won't hurt her.
I just don't understand what's happening.
Oh, now I get it.
No, no, I think I get it.
I think I get it.
The, so, so he was dreaming that, and I think, and then he gets
woken up, right?
Is that right?
And then because there's a security thing in the mess hall with
near legs?
And then he finds that he remembers the name, um, Savdra, that
Neelix says, do you know what I mean?
And now he suddenly realised, I know, space names after a space
name.
Yeah, I don't know.
I do, I love Scarlett Pobos.
She looked utterly disinterested in the fact that she was she was
being held captive there by the next. bless her.
Yeah, so in a minute now, we go into the observation lounge, don't
we?
And we have the PTSD scene where they're all talking about what
they've experienced.
Oh, it's not quite yet.
That is agonising.
That thing too.
That thing where they hug.
That's so awkward.
Do you know what I mean?
That's so awkward and that could have been a real moment of kind
of support and affection and they absolutely don't want to go
there.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they just don't want to depict that.
And so it's this weird awkward thing where he's manhandling him
out of sick bay.
It's not you're okay, Neelix.
Do you know what I mean?
like anything.
The person who is best at depicting being tactile on this is Kate
is when she, she will touch people's arms or stroke their backs
and I don't know, it's a very gently maternal approach to her
performance.
But I did think that that was visibly awkward and a bit of a
shame.
Our memories have been tampered with before, she goes.
Chakoto should have gone at you.
Do you know, I think I've been in a forest fighting a war before
you know, in nemesis.
Do you remember that episode?
It looks exactly like this.
The lighting in the forest, everything.
The guns, it looks exactly the same as this.
Yeah, I think I think...
I think that's a problem too.
This is it.
This is this is this is the scene that basically weighs down the
episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Again, like this thing where we're now being told things that we
could have worked out for ourselves and that we saw, you know, we
saw those things.
We don't need to have this conference and a room chat where they
tell us and how they were failing and stuff.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, Garrett can convey fear.
You know, like he may not be the best actor in the cast, but we
didn't need this dialogue at all.
Giving them melodramatic expository lines to these actors.
Yeah.
I mean, I would just watch it from our fingers watching this.
Do you know the best time they've ever done that is, do you
remember schisms?
where they're all standing around the dentist chair and they're
piecing together their memories and stuff and they just absolutely
do a superb job.
There's a lot of overlaying a dialogue and the atmosphere in that
holodeck, you know, with the them in the chair and the harsh
lighting and just the black background, everyone walking around
it.
Really?
I mean, look at this boring set.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
But, and again, like, poor old, like, the worst Robert, the worst
Robert is so bad in this scene.
I volunteered.
Oh, no, no, no, I remember now.
I mean, nobody can do this stuff.
No, I think that's it.
I think it's actually just beyond them because it's not a very
good scene.
Is Belchan horrified by what they're saying or how they're
delivering it?
I can't tell.
Yeah, that's right.
He's going, really, Ethan.
He's really experienced.
Why is he doing that?
Is it, is it possible, you know, that when you're amongst, you
know, good actor, but you're amongst a group of bad actors that
your performance could sort of come down to their level?
Is that thing?
Who can say, no, Kate's always at her best and so is Jerry.
But that's why they always put Kate with your team.
Because they're so good.
So again, we're getting this backstory, but like it's not being
told in order or is it?
I don't know.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, no, this is before.
And then we see them arrive.
No, because they've already been fired on.
You see, I can't even tell what's happening.
I just don't understand the context of this moment in the war as
well.
I don't understand why this is important.
I don't know, it's so muddy.
Well, from the point of view of the episode.
It's all 4 of them in the scene together, right?
So they've shared some experience.
They've all been together and I think it's telling that they're in
their uniforms as well.
It probably looks quite nice, even though, though..
Look at you, me so...
I mean, Harrod looks great when his hair falls down later on. down
there, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love Harry's floppy hair.
Bless him.
Just ignore the acting and look at the pretty facts.
He is pretty.
It's not a great actor, though, let's be honest.
What's he done since this?
Oh, a lot of Star Trek cruises, that's what.
Oh, no, please don't come back to the observation.
Come on, we were doing all right.
Now we're doing some cheaper, like a cheaper narration of what's
happening.
And so again, you know, we could be seeing this thing is that, like
there's sort of an attempt at that.
We could be learning this via the flashback at the same time as
there.
Yeah, see, they're sort of doing that.
But what they seem to do instead is trying to tell the story and
depicting all the cheapest parts of the story in flashback and
then telling us all the other parts.
Is that what's happening?
It really is boiling down sort of conflict to its simplest
possible level as well.
Innocents get hurt, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's okay.
Like, I do like that it's an atrocity.
It's a thing.
And I like the idea that...
Oh, what a care about the innocence.
I want give a shit about those people.
As far as I'm concerned, they're just a bunch of extras.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they do get a couple of lines.
There's that woman in the cave and the older man, you know, there
was that woman that we were talking to, you know, they do get
lines.
They're not just extras and there's children there who are
presumably killed as well.
This is very well lit, I think.
I do like the sort of moonlight effect they're putting over it, but
also the way the sort of explosions are lighting up people as
well.
There's a bit of smoke.
And there's a bit of atmosphere.
And there's a lot of extras.
There are a lot of extras here. yeah Again, I wish I gave a damn
but yeah, there are a lot of extras being murdered right now.
So, but why are they shooting them because they're running away?
I don't understand why they panicked.
They panicked and...
They won't be because they make that much sense.
Why didn't they have any other choice?
Oh, he said I tried to protect the children.
That's why you tried to protect Naomi.
Okay.
Yeah, there you go.
There you go.
Yeah, yeah.
Long lingering shot on Gara out there.
I just had to get out of there, you know?
Straight to stop Kate's set number 58.
Here we go. number one. we are.
And again, you know, like, I think the lawyer does a lot.
Yeah, yeah, but there is there is a harsh lighting to this that I
think is really effective.
Well, they're, he's using the torch as well.
It's very X-Filsy, isn't it?
Oh no, well, I like those torches that they have strapped to their
arms.
Remember the ones in Star Trek, the Next Generation, where those
palm torches they held in their hands so that wires could go
through their uniforms and power them because they couldn't be
battery powered.
They wouldn't have.
You may not notice, because you don't tend to notice, just sort of
thinking, no, it's true.
But actually, when he came into the cave here, I did notice
Musical Sting.
It was like a very dark, pulsing bit of music.
Well, I was like, my God, they're...
Well, look, it's something, all right?
It wasn't just the usual David Bell nonsense.
I know that, but there was a sense of oppression.
I thought.
Yeah.
I didn't like this one.
It's a load of people, right?
may as well just murder these 2 as well.
Yeah.
So what happens if the guy lunges at him and he just shoots them.
Well, I think doesn't he shoot up and there's a lot of confusion
with the rocks coming down and everything and he just starts
shooting.
Oh okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's it.
He panics.
Oh, crikey.
Oh, God, look.
Close up of him, holding up his hand, sweating.
Oh my god.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
God, come on.
Why wouldn't they lessen?
Oh, boy.
I mean, I did say to you in a message that this is the sort of
stuff that they would ask Nana to do throughout the entirety of
DS9, talk about times in her terrorist days where she did
appalling acts and fuck me. she could pull it off every single
time because she's a really good actress.
But, you know.
Yeah.
But I mean, It's amateur hour on Voyager, I'm afraid.
Well, yeah, but also I just think for script reasons because
that's part of who her character is and her backstory and because
those things happen to her.
It means something, things happen to someone else. no one quite
knows how to play it.
That's an old disconnect, isn't it?
I feel like they should have somehow, somehow given them roles
that mean something to them as a person within Voyager.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't think it would have taken too much tinkering to do
that.
Well, I mean, I guess the protecting the children thing is their
attempt to do that because Nelix is the one who, you know, he's
seen looking after Naomi all the time and telling her stories and
stuff like that.
So I think they do attempt to do that with Neelix.
But because they don't tell this story because it's also messy and
incoherent.
Don't want to be competent right now, Nathan.
Oh, Jesus Christ, this is such a terrible scene.
And like, this, again, this is PTSD, but and we know about people
who came back home from theatres of borum were violent and angry
and staff.
We also know about people who just refuse to ever talk about it
again.
Do you know what I mean?
who live their lives and tried to get back to their lives as being
husbands and fathers or whatever.
Just screaming out these lines.
There's no emotion in what he's saying.
It's just hysteria.
But he's awful.
He's awful.
This is how when he's stressed, he treats B'lana and he's not
possessed.
You know, a bad thing happened to him and now he's taking it out
on her because he's a prick.
I don't know why.
Stop pushing me. pushing me.
I don't like want your help.
It's so awful.
And like, rather, she should just walk out and never go back.
She does say, you know where to find me.
And he says, I'm sorry.
I would say, do you know what?
You're a cum. and just walk off.
That's right.
Like, like, that was that was awful and that should be
relationship ending.
And I don't know why Star Trek wants to depict this man in that
way with her.
Oh, sorry to interrupt this man on the screen, right?
He's got a huge grid on his face.
A dreadful latex.
Look at look at Kate's reaction and she's like...
Jesus, something about how photogenic he is.
And then the ageing process line?
She says, oh, did you buy any?
But the picture is literally how I imagine that alien would take a
selfie.
He just looks so happy.
I wonder if that's the alien Kate was talking about, you know.
No, no, no.
I think she's talking about the Malon in that convention.
She had a face like a bum.
They were testing us, all right.
Oh, bless.
Now we've got, you know, one of the best actors on the show in the
flashbacks now.
Oh, I love this scene.
Yeah.
And also the other thing that I really like too.
And they deliberately set this up.
So you've got, it must be Softra, who is vaporising the bodies so
that there's no evidence of what they've done.
It's the opposite of the instinct that caused the people to set up
the memorial.
And it would be interesting too, if it was the survivors of this
because all the colonists are dead.
If it was the survivors of this, the people who did this, who set
up this memorial.
And so you've got, you know, a this is a similar conflict to the
conflict at the end on a on a much, you know, fiercer scale
because it's about, you know, vaporising dead bodies and staff.
Which is that you've just described, remember that. is basically
how that plays out.
It's just a better episode than this.
How do you unlearn lessons as you go through the seasons?
Yeah, the same show.
But she's saying she's actually saying we have to remember these
people.
We murdered them.
We need to remember them.
You know, like, um, and so she's there and that prefigures how
she's going to react to the memorial when she actually finds her.
But that's interesting.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it doesn't go anywhere, but someone there.
In this country, nobody talks about the Germans that fail.
They just talk about the, you know, we were right and good and
just and they were encroaching on our territory and we went over
there and we gave them a bloody nose, you know?
But I mean, all I see is us going over and murdering 1000000s of
people.
I think, you know, like I think Second World War is obviously a
different thing from the 1st World War.
But these should be remembered as things that happen when we go
wrong in some way.
Um, uh, like, I think, you know, like, I think, I think it's
complicated, but I do think memorialising what happened to
civilians, what happened to women and children, what happened to
non-competents, what happened to the kids who were, persuaded to
go over there.
Yeah, of course.
See, you know, on the new city's blasted.
I'm fairly certain. there were plenty of civilians there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, we keep doing it.
Oddly enough, we just sort of, you know, turn away from it, don't
we?
We don't, we, yeah.
Well, yeah.
How did you go on, though?
You can't, you can't dive into this stuff all the time and then
just keep going on with your life.
That's right.
Yeah.
But it's worth remembering.
Sometimes.
And being traumatised by it is not the worst thing that could ever
happen.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, that's not the worst thing.
I don't watch the news though, Nathan.
I would be constantly traumatised.
Yeah.
You have a way of compartmentalising this stuff that I admire.
So, so, yes, I think, you know, having getting Kate involved.
That does change things, doesn't it?
Because that eliminates the idea that these people were kidnapped
and were really involved.
So now we're closer to understanding what's going on.
This is a plague, some memory thing that's happening.
Now, this young man here is Ensign Ashmore, and he is in 33
episodes of Voyager. in all those episodes, though, or is he just
in the background scenes?
But he is in series 2.
He is in series 2 and he's in end game.
And he does some Star Trek the Next Generation.
So he's just one of their staple of extras that comes in.
I just like Lieutenant John.
The old the scene with Seven and Neelix in a minute.
That moment where she was just very tender with him.
That was the best sort of character moment.
I thought, in this whole thing.
And that's where some random extra.
They remember they remember that there are other people on the
ship for a child.
I love this.
The sou players collapsed. but has maintained its nutritional
integrity. content.
And the other thing is that she's put chocolate in it and we
discover later that she's put chocolate in it and that makes him
feel better and she's done it thoughtfully because she likes
Neelix.
Again, this is a scene between 2 of the best performances
performers on the show.
It's a lovely... doing a great job.
Yeah, they're very different from one another as well.
They're both outsiders as well, aren't they?
You know, he's not federation, she was a Borg.
So they have a unique perspective.
It's the same reason I love, I don't know, Quark and Garrett
together in DSI.
It's a very unique look at the show.
Although Alan Croeca, the shot in a minute, where you put the
camera, poor old Neelix.
Watch him eating that dessert.
I've not seen anything as horrific at being eaten since Richard
Herndle devoured that pineapple when the 5 doctors.
Sorry. niche niche reference there.
So I love this scene too, because it does actually tell us
something about seven.
Do you ever feel shame?
And you expected to say, no, I had no choice or something like
that.
And she says, no, frequently I do.
And that's okay because it means that I won't do it again.
You know, like, I think that's great.
And getting her, do you remember she was so complicated in series
four?
Now this is her being wise about how emotions work and how guilt
works.
I think it's really good.
It is.
But she's not going through this.
It's so odd.
And this is her contractual obligation scene, right?
I think this is the only scene she's in in this episode.
But I think it's a good scene pairing her up with Neelix, who is
savvy and stuff like that.
Um, and having her being kind and comforting him, though she's a
Borg, and having her teach him something.
Use a spoon.
Come on. crash.
Oh, now, now I did say to you, didn't I?
This does have one up on the inner light.
We go outside.
Yeah, yeah.
Which is, it does look I mean, it is obviously the usual sort of
Southern California, you know, the same sort of fields that we
normally see. the Silicon Avatar to come in and wipe out Riker's
girlfriend, don't you?
But I do think that memorial is a potent image.
Yeah, well... it's really good.
There's a bit where you shot from above and you can see all the
federation people, so you can really see the scale of it.
And then at the end, he starts with the camera low and shoots up a
bit.
Really sort of dominating the camera.
Yeah, I think it's really good.
It's probably good.
And it's the sort of thing that they can do with CGI well at this
point in the year 2000. it's integrated into the into the scene.
It looks good.
I think it's great.
And having a physical object, a real proper solid physical object
because that's what memorials are in our world.
If it had just been a space thing or an antenna or some bullshit
do you know what I mean?
But it's a, it's a, an actual monument with carvings on it, which
is what our memorials are, what our war memorials are.
It just needs another draft this, doesn't it?
It needs another draft to add some detail so we care about the
people that are being depicted and just to shove the PTSD material
away from the weaker actors.
Yeah, yeah.
I think it could have been great, yeah.
I think de-emphasizing the mystery.
I think because we only know what's happening really late.
We don't get to spend enough time on the, on the actual event and
I think that that matters.
And I think Brannan realises it matters because he says in
dialogue, oh, it's malfunctioning, so it's only sending us bits of
the story. and it, you don't have that line, Brannan.
You could just tell the story.
That's right I think that that seemed apologising for not doing a
good job of telling that story.
And I think you could, interesting. tell that story.
And he was like, oh, no, I've only got one more cup of coffee in
me.
I'll add this line No, I think that Brannan is more interested in
puzzle boxes and high concept stuff and him telling an emotional
story about how these people panicked and killed these people.
I think that's why pillar is a better showrunner or teller of
stories.
That's why, you know, TNG 3 to 5 are so great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think you're right.
I think that that's that's a problem.
Brandon can't do that stuff.
And he can do some things well.
I remember loving the Brannan Braga episodes of TNG, the really
fun, interesting high concept episodes that he does in that run.
But here, and he's trying to do that here.
But I, and he's trying to make a point too.
And he makes it.
I think he makes it well.
But the episode just doesn't work, though.
Well, most of those Brighton episodes of TNG.
It was just them doing really quirky things.
So we're just fun to watch, right?
There were those actors that we know so well by that point.
And so you watch stuff like Phantasms with Troy as the peptide
cake and things like that.
It's just...
Oh, no, I like timescape. the one with the magical brick.
I really don't like that one.
Oh, yeah, that's one on the train.
Emergence, possibly.
That's so perfectly directed by episode.
That was the bad thing about T and G7.
I forgot how to execute TV.
Yeah, that was sometimes a problem.
I think this is very effective now, Harry crawling through there.
I was sort of getting a beer.
For the 3rd time.
Yeah, wow.
Yeah.
So we saw him in the Jeffries tube.
We saw him in the, you know, in the flashback and now we see him
do it again here.
And I guess this is the big revelation, isn't it?
And again, this is a sort of revelation that should a few of them
should be making at the same time in different ways.
Don't you think?
Like if it was clearer what everyone's role was.
Like Harry has a very particular role.
We don't really see what bad thing Neelix does, do we?
No.
You know, we don't really see what bad thing Chakotay does.
A case is just a reaction to the horror, isn't it, rather than
actually doing that.
Yeah, yeah.
And Kate's doing the thing that will lead to the, you know, she's
expressing the viewpoint that must have led to the creation of the
memorial.
I really, really like the lighting in this episode.
Like, this is basically a black room where they're just being
picked out in the cinema.
It's really effective.
They're learning some lessons.
Oh, no, wait, we've got collective coming later this season.
Oh, that awful lot.
Fabulous yellow jail.
Oh, boy.
I mean some of the imagery is quite potent.
The shot of all the dead bodies on the forest floor.
That's, you know, that's quite strong.
Yeah.
I don't know, like, this was being made now, I think it would be
more graphic, wouldn't it, than they did. to be here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, that's...
I'm really quite graphic, sometimes.
Oh, boy, hedge.
Gemini.
Do you remember?
Jesus, faces melting off in those sacks and things.
Wonderful.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
And it's a nice design as well.
Yeah.
Well, it looks like those World War I memorials that are in, you
know, village squares.
You know, it's vertical.
It's got a thing on top.
You know, like it looks like a memorial, obviously much more
monumental.
Covered in sort of, you know, sci-fi symbols and everything
covered in alien symbols as usual.
No, but with carvings on it, like in stone.
Now, I've got to ask you, do you think that Kate has been made up
to look exhausted there or my theory that I sent to you that, in
fact, they just waited until 16 hours into a day and then sent to
get in front of the camera, you're supposed to look like you're
having slept for a while.
I mean, look at her.
She looks rough there.
Everyone's got bags under her eyes.
I mean, she never looks rougher.
Well, she never looks rougher than when she was in coarse oblivion
with the tube coming out of her nose.
I think they're making her up them all up to look like that.
They're doing it to Robert too.
Look.
Yeah, bags under the eyes.
It's quite effective.
It's quite subtle, actually.
Yeah.
Words alone cannot convey the suffering.
Yeah, beyond experience.
This life's truth.
Make this truth your own.
What am I supposed to take from that?
Oh, it's it's an explanation of what they're trying to do with the
memorial.
It's not enough to just tell you we want you to experience it and
that's how you learn the truth of this thing.
Like it's a justification.
I've got to take on the PTSD, though.
I was no part of that war.
I was just passing.
Well, but they want to make sure that you don't do a thing like
that.
This doesn't happen about doing something like that.
Yeah, we all will.
Yeah, but that's what I thought was good too.
I thought, you know, yes, a proper war memorial, a proper kind of
memorial about what happened to the war, learning the stories, of
what people experience in war is horrible and that's okay.
It should be.
I think if they hadn't put the boy, I might have had an issue with
the ending of just, you know, people just sort of going into that
area of space not knowing.
But I think making it a choice is it's great.
It's an unusually effective, simple solution to avoid your
episode.
Yeah.
I mean, normally we just tie things up in a very quick scene
unsatisfactorily.
Neelix has got saying good things here.
Like people really tried to do that.
We can't deactivated.
It would be wrong.
It would be like vaporising the dead bodies after the massacre.
Chakoto, say what I just said to you.
Well, why do I have to commit atrocities?
didn't commit.
Which is also fair.
You know, that's a reasonable position.
So no one's being a massive dickhead to you.
Probably except for the worst, Robert.
It's something that DS9 does really well all the time.
It froze in a dilemma and then lets you see both sides of both
points of view and they're very often both right.
And that's where your drama is, right?
There's no there's no easy answer.
But I quite like that she just comes in and contradicts
contradicts Chakotay, who says some things are best forgotten.
And she says, no, no, no, no.
And she mentions other war memorials in the in the great Star Trek
tradition, a made up one.
Normally it's 2 real ones followed by a made up one, but they've
just got the one.
Nathan, am I a dictator, if I suggest to 82 doesn't seem like a
lot of people.
I might have bumped that number up a bit.
I think, no, I think it actually, because it's 82 and that's
enough for it to matter, that's enough to build the big memorial
because 82 innocent people died.
Each person only has one life to lose, you know, so I think making
it a more comprehensible number.
I only have to be one and I was 82 to change my styles for it
don't I?
Yeah that's right.
And anyone who was one of those 82 was just completely one of
those 82.
That looks super shy.
So convincing. much of that did they build?
Yeah, yeah, that's not.
Is he just the gray bits at the bottom, do you think?
I think so.
I think they've built.
Yeah, that's really good, isn't it?
That's a physical wall.
Actually, that's quite, yeah.
I think they got the bottom base.
Yeah, everything else is an effect.
But yeah, good stuff.
That's pretty rare, isn't it?
You know, for them to dress a location like that as well, for them
to erect a thing on location?
I mean, it's pretty rare for the fucking go on location, let alone
kind of, you know, build a thing.
Do you know, I do think, though, I think, I know this is a puzzle
box.
I think they are going for something hard hitting.
I think they want this to be, you know, far beyond the stars or
something like that, you know, really powerful stuff.
And I do think it falls short of that.
Yeah, I do too.
But I, you know, like I like how ambitious, ambitious it is, and I
don't think it completely fails.
I don't think it completely fails.
It did work on me.
It did make me think about those things.
It's lush, sure, even.
That's gorgeous.
It goes right up the memorial, so the light coming on.
It's really good.
And the big that big light, the big glowing light, which is the
you know, sending out those memories, I think, is really great.
It's like the sun.
The long shot as well, is really... useful.
Really, very good.
It's very unusual for us to sort of have issues throughout and
then say, well, the ending was great in a boyish race.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Like I can't hate that episode.
I think it fails in all sorts of ways, but it's trying something
worth trying.
And like I said before.
I have been thinking about it since watching it.
You know, like I don't think I'll forget it.
I think my biggest issue is, um, the thing it made me think about
most was me and my country and how we memorialise atrocities from
the past and I never once think about the characters within the
story.
And that's kind of a problem when I am watching a bit of
television, but it's not often an episode of Voyager makes me
think at all.
So, yeah, bravo to that.
No, I think that's okay.
If an episode has a message, and even if it doesn't really work on
its own terms, if it's trying to do something and it makes you
think about things, that's okay, I think that's fine.
There are plenty of Voyager episodes that don't have a message and
also fail.
You know, in much less interesting ways than that.
So I think this is a net win.
Oh, win maybe too strong for me.
A reasonable attempt to do something effective, which kind of
fails seem to seem, I would say, but like, I don't understand as
well.
They realise very early on that Neelix as the jealous other half
to Kez wasn't working at all, right?
So they took a different tack with him.
And they wrote a story where they were sort of going out of the
area of space that he knows and suddenly they gave him
ambassadorial duties and had a kid to look after and a wonderful
relationship with 7 of 9.
And you and I have discovered as we've gone through this, that he
can flourish, right?
And Ethan can be really charming.
What the fuck did they not learn the same lessons with Tom Paris?
Like he just gets worse and worse.
This is the same season with Alice in it, for God's sakes. you
know?
And then in drive next year, he's just as obnoxious.
Like, the only conclusion I can draw with how they're presenting
him is that they think that that is a great character as
presented.
I think he's okay.
That's madness, right?
No wonder we ended up with Archer.
Exactly right.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to
work out where we're going next.
Christmas is at hand, and so we are going to continue our seasonal
tradition of celebrating Christmas with a Star Trek film.
Now, I chose this one last time, and so Joe, it's your turn to
pick Star Trek film.
It feels very strange because very often when using the randomiser
I select every show, don't I?
But d-select the films.
Today, I've de-select every show and only selected the films.
I only get to do this once a year.
All right.
We need to make this selection good.
Okay.
Now, what'll become a sofa?
Voyage home.
So we've done Voyage Home, generations and 1st content.
Oh, we've done 2 of the really good ones and only one of the
terrible ones.
Okay, wow. you ready for this?
Even money.
Ooh, okay.
Your round of Star Trek film is Star Trek three, the search for
Spock.
It's, I think it's okay.
I think it's a bit underrated, actually, but, uh, you know, you've
got very quiet then when I said that.
Should I press it again?
Yeah, go on.
Okay.
Oh, it came out in 1991.
It's Star Trek 6, the undiscovered country.
It's absolutely one of the best ones.
I love it So good.
It's so great.
It's absolutely brilliant.
I think I went and saw it around Christmas at some point as well
when it 1st came out.
What year did it come out?
1991.
Yeah.
I think I may have seen it at Christmas.
This would be what, between 3 and four?
Just after best of both worlds?
Yeah, well, remember Michael's in it.
Remember Michael Dawn is in it.
It was a good time for Star Trek, wasn't it, 91?
Yeah, yeah.
Renee's in it, and then he gets cut completely.
Now, hear me out.
I am very tempted because I just think this is great.
You know, it must have been your lifelong ambition.
It's a great movie.
But do we really want to be left with all the dogs?
Okay, all right. let's try another one. you know, then we would
have done 2 and two.
Well, okay, all right. one more time.
Oh, fuck.
What is it?
Star Trek 2, the wrath of Khan.
That's the other really good one.
They will have done all of the good ones.
Okay, I think we need to do a dart.
Okey-dokey.
Opressa again.
Oh, search for Spock again.
I think that's great.
Oh, finally, a real dog of a movie.
Oh what is it?
It's 1989, Star Trek 5, the final frontier.
No, sneakily, I did really want to do this one.
Just because it is ghastly.
But also, because I've got my charity shop found book, William
Shatner's personal account of Star Trek 5, the final Frontier
where he blames everybody else for all of the problems.
So I could bring some like fun trivia, you know, from William
Shatner himself.
Yes, I think we could absolutely do that to pass the time.
It's, it is a really amazing film.
It's got some incredible people in it.
David Warner.
The 1st of 2 consecutive Star Trek films he's in.
It is very strange.
Which is cyber fucking Kurtzman Trek.
We did.
He is in an early episode.
He's in a Vulcan sex comedy episode, I think, of Stranger Worlds.
I think Tupring is treating him at some kind of, you know
sanatorium or something.
Oh, do you know, I might have to watch that alongside this, you
know, to bring some extra cybok.
I mean, come on, this is Shatner's passion project, riot.
So we were thinking, yeah, if Leonard can do it, then so can I. Yes
guess what?
turns out perhaps not.
You can't.
No.
Well, no, we'll have great fun with that.
Come on.
Let's watch this absolute dog of a movie and have a wonderful
Christmas.
Okay.
Sounds like a plan.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social
media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 9th of December 2025 and at least
on the 12th of December.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek 5, the final frontier.
All right.
Oh, yeah, I'm going too.
We're down to this now.
Here we are.
This is episode 175.
I thought best of both worlds came out so well.
I was having a dialogue with Mark Donaldson. who was like, um
you're going to have to be pretty damn convincing to convince me
that there's any flaws in this.
And then he listened to the whole thing and he was like, oh, yeah.
You're right, aren't you?
I think maybe you might have watched it as well.
God.
Oh, God, the camera really is a movie.
So we have done 8 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes and 41.25 seconds, 8
days.
I think flights absolutely terrifying.
I think flights are entirety might only be like 10 or 11 days.
Like, 0 my god, are we on the, are we on that?
This will be your most...
I will get it there, don't you worry.
I want that.
That's awesome.
By the time we get there, it'll be like a month's worth, you
know?
Wait, wait, no.
Wait, wait, so flights for entirety.com.
I think I've put it on the flight through entirety page.
Oh no, I haven't.
Okay.
I will later.
I just love dipping into the old ones.
If I'm having a bad day, um, I will, I will put in my earphones at
work and uh, I'll dip into one of the old ones where we just howl
quite a lot. to where I'm yelling at Trent.
That's every single one, but they're all somewhere we howl like to
an outrageous degree.
Yeah.
I could just imagine Star Trek fans are like, you're not supposed
to be having fun with this.
It's very serious.
It's very important. political commentary.
It all happened.
It all really happened in the future.
There's dates. of the memory alpha page.
I really fought with this.
I would be maybe 70% +and 30% negative.
I think I'm the other way around actually on this one.
Okay, okay.
I think there are some serious issues with this.
So, but I like what he's doing.
Yeah, I think that's how I feel as well.
I mean, it's got there's a voyage and a switch they can't escape
and it's Brannan going out of his comfort zone and not really
doing it.
Um, you know, like not managing to do it.
And there's an episode, which I should actually look up, list of
strange...
There's no point looking at memory from this one because series 6
and 7, man.
Barely a, the page is only the plot, you know?
Oh, really?
usually.
No interviews.
Yeah, they really, they really like short on quotes and things.
Usually this prop was sold at Star Trek, Las Vegas auction or
something.
That's about it.
So, I mean, I knew I knew I was in trouble when it opened on the
bantering lines between Tom, Harry, and Robert Beltran.
Yeah, we've got the 2 worst Roberts on the shit.
Baltram, man.
It's just not doing anything different than those scenes.
I don't think it meant to be a different person.
Like, that's it.
That's the thing.
Like, it's not dramatic.
I don't know where we said.
It's not a forest, that's why.
Shame, it's not dramatic. persona.
I mean, at the clock.
That's true.
At least we learned what time it was during the course of the
episode.
And he's got an instrument to measure time for the rest of the
series. more consequences than this one.
Oh, no, we do keep the TV, I think.
Oh okay.
Oh boy, we got to talk about that.
Fucking, no, it's absolutely perfect. except you didn't get me a
beer.
What?
What's the actual phone?
I know.
She's like the best girlfriend ever.
And she's gone.
She's there.
Please, all.
It reminded me.
It reminded me of you talking about the graph in decay.
I'm like, you're trying to please this guy.
What's wrong with this?
Your magnificent.
Why you doing this?
And he's literally her being the best girlfriend ever. like
absolutely superb.
Like, you know, putting up with his shit, you know, getting
everything ready for him.
Anyway, I don't want to bloat.
If I was treated like that by Mark, something would be up.
If I didn't have to convince you. the beer, then you can get like
the beer thing.
But when he yells at her later, I think that's relationship
ending.
Why does she come back after that?
Oh, he was possessed.
Like, fuck off. how he behaves under stress.
Oh, I just, the absolute, even worse than Alice, that bit where he
screams and shouts.
It's so bad.
Like a...
Don't disappoint me, all right?
Okay.
Do you keep an eye on no subtitles?
Because the bit in Alice where you go, no.
It's just the best.
It's so funny.
All right.
Okay, come on.
Let's do this before I fall down.
And then I will fall down.
Hey, Joe. Hi.