WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:37:39

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back on board the USS Voyager, which I think is my fault

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and we are watching season six, episode 14 Memorial, which 1st

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aired on the 2nd February in the space year 2000, written by

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Brannan and directed by Alan Croker.

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Now, let me ask you something.

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Is this the only episode of Voyager that you've fornicated to?

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A formative episode for me in many ways.

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I mean, I would go as far as to say that if Memorial wasn't in my

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life, I wouldn't have gotten married, I wouldn't have had a 16

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year relationship because I had an inn into convincing my ex

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husband, Simon, around my house, you know?

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And I was messaging you while I was watching this going, oh, my

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God, I can see the bedroom.

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I can see I was watching this on the bed. with no lights on and

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just the light coming from the TV.

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I mean it really did take me back.

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However, despite the fact that um fornication was enjoyed during

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Memorial, doesn't mean I'm giving this a free pass because I think

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there might have been a reason why I was fornicating during it.

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You know, I may have just sort of nodded off a bit watching the

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start of this episode. to sort of take your mind off it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, to be fair, lots of babies could be made via Voyager this

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way.

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I have to say that I made some crack in last week's episode that

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this was just going to be the inner light only shed.

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And it's not the inner light at all.

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It's doing something quite different.

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It's not...

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Yeah, but it isn't very good.

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Um, but like I have to say that I kind of like what it's trying to

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do, I'm interested in what it's trying to do, and I just think the

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problem is that they don't pull it off. and I think there's

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problems and performance problems and stuff like that and just the

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usual kind of voyager problems.

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But I have to say that I didn't hate it.

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I didn't think it was a waste of my time.

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And I have been thinking about it a little bit afterwards.

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You've really made me realise how, and I, you know, you know I

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have issues with Latter Day Star Trek in many, many ways, but one

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of the things they get really well is they'll drop a premise and

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it will inform the characters, right?

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The characters we know will learn something about them, yeah?

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And the best of 90s trick does that.

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But the worst of 90s trek drops a premise on us that we don't

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really care about.

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And then tells us nothing at all about the characters.

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And at the end you go, well, what the hell was that all about?

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And I think that is an issue here in that it puts the characters

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through a really sort of horrific experience.

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But there's a scene where Neelix talks to 7 about mistakes in the

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past, but Stefan isn't actually experiencing anything within this

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episode like Neelix is.

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So I'm like, well, why aren't we talking about Neelix's past

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year?

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He's the one that's suffering the trauma.

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So they don't make the link.

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The other issue I think this episode has is, I'm a bit muddy on

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the details of this war and these people.

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And I think they think the horrific act of murdering all those

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people is enough to sell that premise.

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Whereas I kept saying to you, this reminds me so much of remember

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which is a much more traditional Star Trek episode.

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It's a bit like violations, but good, remember, wherein a group of

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people come onto the ship, and one character absorbs all the

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memories of one of them, and that group of people in their past

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did something absolutely horrific.

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There's like a whole holocaust sequence that B'lana experiences.

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But it's all channelled through her character and there are lots

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of scenes of her investigating, you know, what's going on

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throughout it.

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So you get a real sense of what B'Lanas taken from this as well in

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that episode and Roxanne Dawson is just a really good actress.

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So she sells both the Balana parts of it and the parts of the

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story that she's seeing.

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The real issue here.

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The big, big, big issue here is that for some reason, 6 years into

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this fucking show, they give this material to Garrett Wang, Robert

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Duncan McNeil, Robert Beltran, and Ethan Phillips, and none of

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them can pull it off.

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Not one of them.

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But they know these actors.

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They know what these actors can do.

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I think, though, that, I mean, easily of those for the best one is

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Ethan Phillips.

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And I think Ethan Phillips could pull off that kind of melodrama.

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But I think the script is the problem.

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And I think that, look, I think the script has lots of things to

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say and that it's trying to do something.

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And like, like I live in Australia and virtually our national day

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and ZAC day.

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It's not Australia Day, which is um, which is a very contested

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holiday, which is about the arrival of Europeans in Australia on

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the continent.

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But Anzac Day is about a particular battle in World War one.

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And when I was a kid.

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That Memorial Day was kind of dying out as the people who

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experienced World War one were dying, and as we became a bit

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disillusioned with what World War one had been about, and World

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War one was something to remember, something that should never

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happen again, where 1000000s and 1000000s of people died, and were

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sent to die by leaders, by European leaders, were sent to fight

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each other and die for some reason.

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And in my lifetime, we've started to talk about World War I as if

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it was a war that was fought to protect Australia's freedoms, which

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is just crazy.

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You know, where 1000s of miles away.

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And so the whole idea of memorialising a war, which is important

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both in England and Australia, isn't it?

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Like every village, every country town has a World War one

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memorial in it, my school has a massive World War one memorial on

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the wall of one of its halls.

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So that's a hugely important thing, but how and why do we remember

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things?

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I think the Y is very important here in England because there's

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this odd sense of patriotic heroism, about the 2 world wars, where

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especially around Remembrance Sunday, If you dare to suggest that

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you know, murdering all those Germans was a bad thing.

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Um, you're not a patriot, you know, and it's just so weird.

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I don't think you can ever justify the atrocities we committed as

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well.

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So I think I think the moral here is really good.

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Yeah, I do too.

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And I think also the fact that in some ways memorialising a war

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traumatises people, like actually telling them what it was like.

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You know, like this is ridiculous, but like Auschwitz has a blue

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sky account and they frequently post pictures of people who were

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murdered in German camps during World War 2 and give a little bit

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of background and stuff.

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And, you know, like I follow that amongst...

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I have a sensitive filter on those pictures.

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I mean, I wouldn't want to be scrolling and just come across.

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No, they're not, no, they're not pictures of them dead.

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They're pictures that they have of them, sometimes they're

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mugshots, sometimes they're pictures of them as children.

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And I think even though that's not fun.

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Do you know what I mean?

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It interrupts my doom scrolling or my news about Donald Trump

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every day.

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I think it's worth doing.

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I mean, I think that even if memorialising those things re

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traumatizes people or traumatises them.

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That's okay because, and it's what 7 says to Neelix.

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Those feelings are there so we don't do it again.

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And that's hugely important.

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And I just thought that that it's really rare, I think, for

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Voyager, to deal with something that important and not flub it in

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some way.

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Not turn it off at the end, you mean?

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Yeah, well, and that was great.

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Simple answer where she goes, you know, we're going to keep it

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on.

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We going to keep it going for 300 years, but we're going to leave

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a boy that says, this is here, and if you want to experience this

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this is here.

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And I think that's the perfect way to win this.

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And it's funny because I've obviously seen all of Voyager before

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but I couldn't remember how this ended.

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And it wasn't 100% certain what the outcome was going to be.

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I didn't know what they would decide to do.

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And like Jama makes some comment about how, well, Janeway decides

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to do a thing and we just have to go with her because she's

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Janeway and that's how the show works.

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That's how she makes the right decision.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Both times.

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But she makes the right decision here and defends it properly.

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And I thought it was really good.

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Like, I thought that that was really interesting.

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So, like, I think it's heart's in the right place, and I think it

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is discussing interesting things.

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You know, it's depicting PTSD, but it can't quite do that.

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And it's depicting this atrocity.

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I can't quite do that.

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And because Voyager is not a good enough TV show, I think to peak

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those things.

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Well, I think in terms of the acting and in terms of the writing

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because we have had civilisations depicted in 90s Star Trek, they

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are absolutely riveting.

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You mentioned the inner light, you know?

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We can do this and it can move us, but I was watching those scenes

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playing out and I was thinking, oh, how interesting to see the

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actors playing different roles rather than, well, what's the next

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shocking revelation about this, the history that I'm being shown?

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I just didn't really care about the details.

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No.

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I think the problem is, like, with the inner light, the inner

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light's something quite different because Picant's playing

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himself.

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He thinks he's himself.

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He remembers everything. everyone else calls him by a different

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name.

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And then gradually he grows and becomes one of them and

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experiences the life of the people who've left that satellite

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behind without ever being someone different because this is a

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Brennan Braga kind of puzzle box.

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And because it does a kind of lower decks thing of throwing up a

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few different possibilities about what's going on here, I don't

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think it's super clear to the actors and I don't think it's clear

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to us watching it naively, whether these people are possessed, have

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been taken over, whether it's really them and their memories have

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been wide, but it's them.

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I mean, the flashbacks put them in Starfleet uniforms.

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So none of that's super clear.

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And I don't think it's super clear to the actors.

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And so I don't know.

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Something is going wrong.

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And that typical Voyager away as well.

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None of it means anything to anybody.

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We won't ever talk about this again.

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Everything that the trauma that everyone's gone through in this

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episode won't impact anything.

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But I think in a way that that's okay.

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I think that if this point lands and if it makes us at home think

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for a little while about why we memorialise war and how we do that

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then it's done its job.

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I think those characters should realise something about themselves

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within this episode.

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Just something.

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Something.

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But it's not, it's just them all playing different roles.

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And at the end, they leave the thing on and off we go.

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Yeah.

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I mean, they're not playing different roles.

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They are still them, I think, all the way through.

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They're just placed in this context.

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Like they don't have names or anything like that.

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They don't think they come from that place.

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But it's odd and it's unclear and because it's so high concept

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it's one of those things where I don't know how to feel about this

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because this isn't like any possible real situation.

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I could be involved in.

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And I don't know what they would learn about it.

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But I guess the closest that we get is that conversation between

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Neelix and 7 where she knows what guilt is and what it's for and

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why experiencing it isn't bad.

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I mean, it's a good scene.

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But it's a glimpse in a 40 minute episode of us learning something

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you know?

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And I just think it really highlights Voyager's biggest issue

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which is half the cast are not the best actors in the world.

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And they can't do this.

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And I'm going to question Ethan as well because I just don't think

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there are moments in here where he's given perfectly serviceable

246
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:05.879
lines and he delivers them in such a bizarre way.

247
00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:08.940
There's a bit in the conference room and I've sent it to you

248
00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:12.299
didn't I, as a video where he goes, you know, it doesn't matter.

249
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.120
All that manners is what we did.

250
00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:17.279
I'm like, why are you delivering that line like that?

251
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:20.399
I mean, and why did the director let that go through?

252
00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:22.139
Why do you sound like a robot?

253
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.659
It's it's a bizarre performance.

254
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.620
That is a tone that he sometimes takes when he's under stress when

255
00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:29.700
the character's under stress.

256
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:31.980
That is part of Phillips's performance, Vince.

257
00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:36.000
I don't think that he understands the script.

258
00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:40.980
And I think that's a problem because I do think he is good and he

259
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:44.759
can convey emotion and he himself, like that character has a kind

260
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:49.080
of background where it's shady and he has been involved in some

261
00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:49.740
terrible things.

262
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:52.740
Gara and Duncan McNeil.

263
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.039
They just pitch it at hysteria and that's not convincing because

264
00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:59.220
they're not strong enough access to pull that off. and Belgian.

265
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.019
What is he doing?

266
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.100
I mean, is he there?

267
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:03.840
Yeah, yeah.

268
00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:07.980
Well, I think he's the one who actually, I mean, obviously once we

269
00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:11.460
start seeing Cade in those, in those...

270
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:17.220
But Beltran, I think, is probably doing the best job of not

271
00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:20.220
embarrassing himself, I think, probably.

272
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.179
I always get the sense with Duncan McNeil, that whatever he's

273
00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:27.000
asked to do hysteria, he's just so embarrassed, right?

274
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:29.039
So he doesn't kind of commit to it.

275
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:33.779
Whereas you see Kate come in and she's just furious, you know?

276
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.480
It's like it's precisely how she felt.

277
00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:38.879
The 1st day Jerry was on the set, you know, that's how she was

278
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.019
storming around.

279
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:41.399
Who the fuck's this, you know?

280
00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.600
I mean, this would all be better, of course, if it had the clock

281
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.639
from dramatis persona in it, wouldn't it?

282
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.019
Let's be honest. you know.

283
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:50.639
What wouldn't?

284
00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.120
No, this is a better episode than dramatic persona.

285
00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:58.139
I do think it is it is deeply flawed this episode.

286
00:14:58.200 --> 00:14:59.220
Yeah, yeah.

287
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:02.100
Well, well, we should go in.

288
00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:04.980
I don't think we'll be wasting our time.

289
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.740
There's plenty to talk about, isn't it?

290
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:08.580
absolutely.

291
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:09.299
All right.

292
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:10.620
I'll count us in.

293
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:17.580
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

294
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.480
Okay, so we're Delta Fly.

295
00:15:21.539 --> 00:15:23.639
Yeah, I like the Delta Flyer.

296
00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:24.480
Oh boy.

297
00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:25.799
That's a cute set too.

298
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:27.360
It's not a boring set.

299
00:15:27.419 --> 00:15:29.220
You know, we was in trouble.

300
00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:31.200
Who left their dirty plate in the replicator?

301
00:15:31.259 --> 00:15:31.620
Tom.

302
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:33.240
It wasn't me.

303
00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:35.580
It's a biohazard, says Harry.

304
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:37.679
But what is that?

305
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:39.120
Like, it's a replicator.

306
00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:39.899
Do you know what I mean?

307
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:41.519
Just make it vaporise it.

308
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:42.600
Like, it's so dumb.

309
00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:45.000
It's so it's so boring.

310
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.779
But that dialogue can be sort of AI generated, on it.

311
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

312
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:55.799
And it's not telling us anything as a, it's not telling us

313
00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:56.220
anything.

314
00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:57.419
It is, you're right.

315
00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.519
It's like all of them are men.

316
00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:02.519
I mean, you know, how many women have you got?

317
00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:05.639
It's old to have a scene on Voyager where there isn't a woman

318
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:06.539
involved, though, right?

319
00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:07.620
Because they, yeah.

320
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.659
But I don't know.

321
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:11.580
See, that's quite good too.

322
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:16.320
They've arrived home So, I mean, that's it's something.

323
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:18.059
Why is Neelix on this trip?

324
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:19.080
I don't know.

325
00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:22.080
All I'd know is if I was the red shirt on this mission with this

326
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.639
four, I'll be like, oh.

327
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.559
Give me the gun.

328
00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:26.639
I'll do it now.

329
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:34.200
There's about enough personality for one person spread amongst the

330
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:34.740
4 of them.

331
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:36.059
Well, maybe not Linux.

332
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:39.899
I don't, like, I just think that's not fun to watch that banter is

333
00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:40.259
not fun.

334
00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:41.519
Look at Bilana.

335
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.000
Throwing ourselves straight, him, snocking him, guiding him home.

336
00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.059
I mean, she gives him gifts the 2nd he walks in the door.

337
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:49.679
I mean, she is the perfect girlfriend.

338
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.019
She is the best girlfriend.

339
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.039
I want to date her.

340
00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:53.879
She's awesome.

341
00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:54.419
She's so great.

342
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:56.279
He doesn't realise it though, does he?

343
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:58.320
No. we'll get there.

344
00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:01.259
I love the doctor in this scene, though.

345
00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:02.220
He is pretty great.

346
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:06.059
Like, he's desperate to give them all an examination and none of

347
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:06.720
them wants it.

348
00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:07.980
Like, it's so cute.

349
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.519
And I'd forgotten, you know, here he is walking through the

350
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.400
corridors. obviously in series 6, which is something that we

351
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.039
haven't often seen on untitled Star Trek Project.

352
00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:18.299
Oh my god, here we go.

353
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.880
What sort of surprises it, naughty or nice?

354
00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:21.960
So it's Tom Paris.

355
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:27.059
Look, I love the fact that he has that desk or that side table

356
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:30.420
with the lamp on it, you know, that he's got mid-20th century

357
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:31.319
furniture there.

358
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.779
I think is really great and the couch there.

359
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.720
Like, see those chairs in the chair, in the background, on the

360
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:37.500
standard lamp?

361
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.279
And, you know, like the couch, all of that stuff is 20th century

362
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:41.640
which is great.

363
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.480
You're saying all of this, no, no, interests across the last 6

364
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.660
years in this room, you know, furniture, TVs.

365
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:53.460
But mid-20th century, Earth, they've kind of centred on it, and I

366
00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:54.420
think that's kind of fair.

367
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:55.859
The TV looks great.

368
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:56.759
It's awesome.

369
00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:01.019
And the ads are wonderful.

370
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:02.460
It's called a shingle, Nathan.

371
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:03.960
Like, all incident was so, so, I did.

372
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.200
They insert them into entertainment programs.

373
00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:08.400
What the hell?

374
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:10.380
What we doing here?

375
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:11.460
It's really fun.

376
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.460
I can even reprecated popcorn for you.

377
00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:16.500
And he's still not happy.

378
00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:19.140
No, what an absolute prick.

379
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.519
He says everything's perfect now.

380
00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:21.839
Get me a beer, woman.

381
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:23.400
Like, what a prick.

382
00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:27.059
Like, why does she not say the replicator's over there, you

383
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:27.960
fucking idiot?

384
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:29.519
Like, what?

385
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:30.599
I think Burma's watching this.

386
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.299
Burma's watching this and going, this would be great.

387
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:34.740
This is how we should do Enterprise.

388
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:35.940
This is perfect, you know?

389
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.680
It is exactly right.

390
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:40.259
And so they do a scene later.

391
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.240
She's hanging off in, Nathan.

392
00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:45.299
Yeah, literally, while he's sipping his beer, watching his

393
00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:49.259
cartoons, when she's talking to him about what happened while he

394
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:52.859
was away, and he's just completely ignoring her.

395
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.559
She is literally the best girlfriend ever.

396
00:18:55.619 --> 00:19:00.059
And then later, like that scene between him and her is horrible

397
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:00.779
later.

398
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.880
And what, when he dismisses it?

399
00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:04.500
I mean, when he...

400
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:05.220
Somebody goes...

401
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.640
I think I've had enough of cartoons and just dismisses the gift.

402
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:10.799
It's a great gift.

403
00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:13.559
I like this, though. her asleep on the thing.

404
00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:14.339
It's just so normal.

405
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.799
It's unusually normal for Voyager.

406
00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:18.000
Yeah, yeah.

407
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:21.000
Him watching the TV and her asleep on the sofa.

408
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.779
Yeah, I mean, I thought this scene was charming except for what a

409
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:26.099
prick Tommy is, you know.

410
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.079
Like just how obnoxious he is.

411
00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:31.980
And clearly the writers, like, Brandon clearly thinks that's

412
00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:32.279
okay.

413
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:36.960
I do like, I mean, this is how I was watching it back in the day

414
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.759
look, he's watching just by the light of the TV.

415
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.319
I have to say, I was quite impressed with the lighting in this

416
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:45.180
episode and some of the direction as well.

417
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.220
Well, Alan Croker's good.

418
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.119
He reliable, isn't he?

419
00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:49.440
Oh, is it Croeca?

420
00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:51.180
Oh, okay, yeah, he's really good.

421
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.579
Certainly the claustrophobia.

422
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.460
We were in the cave, sort of crawling through with Harry.

423
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.500
That's some of that stuff, I thought, was really effective.

424
00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:00.119
Because I'm claustrophobic myself.

425
00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:02.160
Yeah, yeah, okay.

426
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:02.700
Okay.

427
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:07.380
I mean, this, so we go out on something weird is happening on the

428
00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:09.599
telly, which I think is probably not too bad.

429
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.960
Like, that's actually, that's Brannan being weird in a...

430
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:14.819
But it's sort of forger 101, isn't it?

431
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:16.500
This could turn into, I don't know.

432
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.220
What's the one we watched recently, you know, where Carolyn

433
00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:21.839
Seymour turned up with a knife, you know?

434
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:27.119
It could be any Voyager episode where weird things are happening.

435
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:27.720
Yeah.

436
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.420
Or we're going to be, are we going to be seeing the future in the

437
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:30.779
TV?

438
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.700
Like, what's the premise of the week this week?

439
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:34.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

440
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.119
Yeah, it is very that.

441
00:20:36.180 --> 00:20:40.559
And I think I think that's part of what Hamp is the episode is

442
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:45.779
because we follow a few red herrings.

443
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:46.740
Do you know what I mean?

444
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:52.200
Like, for a while, it's what we think is those 4 men have been

445
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.700
kidnapped and forced to participate in some kind of event.

446
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:03.420
Um, and even though, uh, you know, Bellana doesn't believe that, uh

447
00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:07.619
and, you know, alternative explanations are put forward, because

448
00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:10.500
we go with that for a while, it takes a while for the episode to

449
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:11.759
come into focus, I think.

450
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.480
It would make a wonderful lower decks episode, we have Mariner

451
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:20.099
dishing our wealth, theory after another, yeah, of, you know, every

452
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:21.960
cliche from 90s trek.

453
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:24.779
But it's intriguing enough.

454
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:28.140
It's a, it's a, oh, what's happening here rather than, oh my god

455
00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:28.920
I've got to watch this.

456
00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:30.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

457
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

458
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:35.160
And that's pretty standard Voyager, I think. as you said, it's

459
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:36.539
sort of standard weird voice.

460
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.539
Remember the pre-title sequence last week with that entire colony

461
00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:40.619
scooped off the planet.

462
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.180
Now that's how you do it.

463
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.440
That was a hook.

464
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:45.059
That's definitely a hook.

465
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.539
Oh, scoop offing, but yeah.

466
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:50.819
You got ice cream scoop.

467
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.880
No, the action isn't too bad, right?

468
00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:55.799
It looks quite nice in black and white on the TV.

469
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:57.359
Yeah.

471
00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:58.259
I think it is pretty good.

472
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.319
I think it's pretty great And Seamus...

473
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:02.220
Races, though, isn't it?

474
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:03.240
It should have been guns.

475
00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:04.859
Just give them guns for once.

476
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

477
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.619
I mean, part of the thing is he sees himself.

478
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:13.380
Isn't it?

479
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.220
Yeah, and now we're actually getting the flashback and we'll

480
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:19.140
discover that that's because he's fallen asleep.

481
00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:22.140
He hasn't been transported here, which we might have thought was

482
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:22.500
happening.

483
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.039
But what works here is what I was complaining about last week on

484
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.920
best of both worlds is everyone's shooting at the same time here.

485
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:30.539
There's chaos and urgency to it.

486
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.000
Whereas remember, last week it was like, okay, it's your turn to

487
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:33.480
shoot now.

488
00:22:33.539 --> 00:22:36.480
Now it's your turn to shoot, you know, plot plot.

489
00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:37.740
And he's been shot.

490
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:42.420
And now we wake up, so we prepare this unfavourably to best of

491
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:43.380
both worlds, I think.

492
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.640
Yeah, hopefully.

493
00:22:44.700 --> 00:22:45.839
Yeah, that's right.

494
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:55.380
Um, so I think the problem too is that Brannan wants to, like, um

495
00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:58.980
he doesn't really want to tell the story of what happened.

496
00:22:59.039 --> 00:22:59.880
Do you know what I mean?

497
00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:03.359
Like, and because what happened was a fake thing on a space planet

498
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:04.740
or whatever, it's not real.

499
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:09.480
But if we were remembering a particular terrible event and we saw

500
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:10.920
it and we saw what it was like.

501
00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:15.240
But what we get instead of sort of weird glimpses of it, so we get

502
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.559
the thing on the telly, here we're seeing Harry walk along.

503
00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:22.440
I mean, walk along. going to be crawling along this Jeffreys tube

504
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.220
and later on we'll see him crawling along a tunnel in a cave in

505
00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:27.480
exactly the same way.

506
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:32.039
But we don't see he doesn't see a flashback here, right?

507
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.500
So something, it's kind of horrible, isn't it?

508
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.839
We eventually get to the scene in the cave where he's murdering

509
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:38.519
those people, but just because he's panicked.

510
00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:41.819
It should be so effective, but unfortunately it's Garrett acting

511
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:42.059
it.

512
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.759
So he's just sort of screaming, no.

513
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.400
Yeah, I know I know what you're saying about the snatches of what

514
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.059
we're seeing.

515
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.019
Again, I will keep bringing up, remember, because that tells a

516
00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:56.220
linear narrative, a proper story where you're emotionally invested

517
00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:59.940
in the actual story it's telling away from Voyager.

518
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:05.099
And there's a relationship between the woman that B'Lana's playing

519
00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:07.859
and one of the guys that gets killed at the end.

520
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.640
And so there's your big like dramatic hook at the end of the

521
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:11.880
episode.

522
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.799
Yeah, because these are people we don't know these people.

523
00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:19.380
But again, like if we were made to care about them.

524
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:23.819
If the episode made us care about them, then it would be doing

525
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:25.799
what the memorial is doing.

526
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.059
Do you know what I mean?

527
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.339
Like, if it could do the same thing?

528
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:33.539
I, you know, you're just, you know, one of your favourite Doctor

529
00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:36.960
Who episodes is demons of the Punjab, where people are

530
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:41.220
memorialising this terrible historical event, and the episode

531
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:45.660
itself is memorialising it as well and telling the people at home

532
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:46.619
watching it about it.

533
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:48.539
Now here, that was real.

534
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:49.980
This is a space thing.

535
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:53.400
But if there was some parallel between what the episode was doing

536
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.220
and what the memorial was doing, that would have been good.

537
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:01.859
The episode that I'm thinking of is a series 2 Stranger Worlds

538
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:05.160
episode called Under the Cloak of War, which tells a flashback

539
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:09.539
story with Mbenga and Nurse Chappell on a planet during the

540
00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:15.839
Klingon war, and again, it tells a single coherent story through

541
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.599
flashbacks and makes us care about it.

542
00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:21.059
That's probably the waste to it, isn't it?

543
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:21.599
Yeah.

544
00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:23.940
So there's a line, isn't it?

545
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.859
Where, where Braga has the characters say, the memorial's

546
00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:32.220
malfunctioning and so, oh, we're getting a little bits and pieces

547
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:35.400
we're not getting a real story, but I think that that's just a

548
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:36.180
cheat.

549
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.099
This scene here now, right?

550
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.579
where he takes Naomi hostage and says, you know, I won't let her

551
00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:43.259
go, you're going to hurt her and all of that.

552
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:45.960
It's like, what's this telling us about Neelix?

553
00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:46.859
Yes.

554
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:51.960
Is it telling us that under these circumstances, in reality, if

555
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.619
this was really happening to Neelix, this is how he'd behave?

556
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:59.519
Or is he literally playing out a scene that happened in the past

557
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.740
via the memorial?

558
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:02.460
I just don't know.

559
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.599
No, I think the I think the intention is that they all have PTSD

560
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.920
and so they're all suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

561
00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:16.799
And so Harry's being triggered by the similarity between the

562
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.839
Jeffreys tube and the thing.

563
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.259
Here, this doesn't work at all because, like, I don't know what

564
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:26.700
happens in the thing that's equivalent to him protecting a child.

565
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:27.720
We never see it, do we?

566
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.480
No, we don't see anything like this.

567
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:36.779
But there's clear, you know, uh, Paris is triggered by a gunfight

568
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:41.460
on the television, uh, in a, in the untouchables, and he remembers

569
00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:43.740
Harry's in the Jeffrey Shoe in a tight space.

570
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:45.420
Harry's in the cave.

571
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:46.799
Why?

572
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.200
I think maybe...

573
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.400
Is it like visual shorthand?

574
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.700
Like the most out of character thing niggas could do would be to

575
00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:57.599
hold up a blade to Naomi and threaten that.

576
00:26:57.660 --> 00:26:59.039
Yeah, but he never threatens her.

577
00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:01.680
Like, it's... he's a threat. move right?

578
00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:03.599
He's got the knife in his hand right next to her.

579
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:09.960
But he's defending her against them, but and like now we're here

580
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.059
with Chakotay, and I don't know why.

581
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:13.680
Is it a flashback, like what's going on?

582
00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:16.740
And because I, because Braga wants to be clever.

583
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:17.700
Do you know what I mean?

584
00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:20.460
and wants to wrong footers, he actually is more interested in

585
00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:23.759
doing that in the mystery than in telling this story.

586
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:24.839
I don't know what happens here.

587
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.599
Yeah, you've hit it on the head there.

588
00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:30.000
It's more about the mystery than the people, isn't it?

589
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:32.579
And that's just not my end to trek.

590
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.880
I do like a good mystery, but I much prefer learning about

591
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:36.180
people.

592
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:41.460
But I mean, if it was, if it was this, if it was this event, do

593
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:42.119
you know what I mean?

594
00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:46.319
Like if we learned about this terrible event and how some people

595
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:49.259
who were sent to protect people panicked and it went wrong and

596
00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:52.920
resulted in it, this terrible massacre, like that's a, that's

597
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:57.660
probably too hefty a, a story for Voyager to actually tell in a

598
00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:01.559
way that, you know, strangely worlds could tell that story or, or

599
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.619
deep say something could get further towards a story like that.

600
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.059
What do you have, you know, isn't there?

601
00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:07.440
A lot of innocent people were murdered.

602
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:09.359
Yeah, yeah, accidentally.

603
00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:13.140
But we can't tell the story properly or in an affecting way, we

604
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:18.059
just get little bits and pieces of it, you know. telling it via

605
00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:21.480
these particular characters are, no, I won't stop going on about

606
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:23.460
it, but like you've got Jerry there.

607
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:25.019
You've got Robert Picardo.

608
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.339
You've got Kate Mulgrew.

609
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.660
Why are you choose?

610
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:29.339
You've got Tim Ross, for fuck's sake.

611
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.240
Why are you choosing Ethan Garra and Duncan McNeil?

612
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:36.599
Yeah, and, you know, I just forget Belgian's ever there.

613
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:39.359
Well, Beltran's doing the best job, I think.

614
00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:41.400
What is this, the battle's over.

615
00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:43.859
Oh, you promised you won't hurt her.

616
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.480
I just don't understand what's happening.

617
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.539
Oh, now I get it.

618
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:49.740
No, no, I think I get it.

619
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:51.000
I think I get it.

620
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:57.960
The, so, so he was dreaming that, and I think, and then he gets

621
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:58.980
woken up, right?

622
00:28:59.039 --> 00:28:59.700
Is that right?

623
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.960
And then because there's a security thing in the mess hall with

624
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:04.920
near legs?

625
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:10.799
And then he finds that he remembers the name, um, Savdra, that

626
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.599
Neelix says, do you know what I mean?

627
00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:16.380
And now he suddenly realised, I know, space names after a space

628
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:16.799
name.

629
00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:19.799
Yeah, I don't know.

630
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.440
I do, I love Scarlett Pobos.

631
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:27.000
She looked utterly disinterested in the fact that she was she was

632
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:30.660
being held captive there by the next. bless her.

633
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:36.240
Yeah, so in a minute now, we go into the observation lounge, don't

634
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:36.420
we?

635
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:41.099
And we have the PTSD scene where they're all talking about what

636
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:42.240
they've experienced.

637
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:43.319
Oh, it's not quite yet.

638
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:45.779
That is agonising.

639
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:46.740
That thing too.

640
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.559
That thing where they hug.

641
00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:51.119
That's so awkward.

642
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:52.019
Do you know what I mean?

643
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:54.900
That's so awkward and that could have been a real moment of kind

644
00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:58.319
of support and affection and they absolutely don't want to go

645
00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:58.680
there.

646
00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:00.000
Do you know what I mean?

647
00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:01.500
Like they just don't want to depict that.

648
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:04.079
And so it's this weird awkward thing where he's manhandling him

649
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:05.099
out of sick bay.

650
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:07.380
It's not you're okay, Neelix.

651
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:08.220
Do you know what I mean?

652
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:09.119
like anything.

653
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:14.819
The person who is best at depicting being tactile on this is Kate

654
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.539
is when she, she will touch people's arms or stroke their backs

655
00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:22.319
and I don't know, it's a very gently maternal approach to her

656
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:22.859
performance.

657
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:28.259
But I did think that that was visibly awkward and a bit of a

658
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:28.559
shame.

659
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:32.220
Our memories have been tampered with before, she goes.

660
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.359
Chakoto should have gone at you.

661
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:38.880
Do you know, I think I've been in a forest fighting a war before

662
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.079
you know, in nemesis.

663
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:41.039
Do you remember that episode?

664
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:45.660
It looks exactly like this.

665
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.000
The lighting in the forest, everything.

666
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:50.279
The guns, it looks exactly the same as this.

667
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:52.980
Yeah, I think I think...

668
00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:55.319
I think that's a problem too.

669
00:30:55.380 --> 00:30:56.400
This is it.

670
00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:00.539
This is this is this is the scene that basically weighs down the

671
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:01.140
episode.

672
00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.539
Yeah, yeah.

673
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.920
Again, like this thing where we're now being told things that we

674
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:12.299
could have worked out for ourselves and that we saw, you know, we

675
00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:13.079
saw those things.

676
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:16.680
We don't need to have this conference and a room chat where they

677
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:19.200
tell us and how they were failing and stuff.

678
00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:20.099
Do you know what I mean?

679
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:22.140
Like, Garrett can convey fear.

680
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.319
You know, like he may not be the best actor in the cast, but we

681
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.839
didn't need this dialogue at all.

682
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:32.400
Giving them melodramatic expository lines to these actors.

683
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:35.279
Yeah.

684
00:31:35.339 --> 00:31:37.619
I mean, I would just watch it from our fingers watching this.

685
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:43.619
Do you know the best time they've ever done that is, do you

686
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:44.819
remember schisms?

687
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:48.240
where they're all standing around the dentist chair and they're

688
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.539
piecing together their memories and stuff and they just absolutely

689
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:53.339
do a superb job.

690
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:57.839
There's a lot of overlaying a dialogue and the atmosphere in that

691
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.920
holodeck, you know, with the them in the chair and the harsh

692
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.680
lighting and just the black background, everyone walking around

693
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:04.980
it.

694
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.240
Really?

695
00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:07.740
I mean, look at this boring set.

696
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:09.839
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

697
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:16.200
But, and again, like, poor old, like, the worst Robert, the worst

698
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.619
Robert is so bad in this scene.

699
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:20.640
I volunteered.

700
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:26.400
Oh, no, no, no, I remember now.

701
00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:28.319
I mean, nobody can do this stuff.

702
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:30.779
No, I think that's it.

703
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:33.000
I think it's actually just beyond them because it's not a very

704
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:33.599
good scene.

705
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:37.380
Is Belchan horrified by what they're saying or how they're

706
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:38.039
delivering it?

707
00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:38.700
I can't tell.

708
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:39.839
Yeah, that's right.

709
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:41.460
He's going, really, Ethan.

710
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:42.660
He's really experienced.

711
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:43.680
Why is he doing that?

712
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:49.440
Is it, is it possible, you know, that when you're amongst, you

713
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.799
know, good actor, but you're amongst a group of bad actors that

714
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.900
your performance could sort of come down to their level?

715
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:55.680
Is that thing?

716
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:59.940
Who can say, no, Kate's always at her best and so is Jerry.

717
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.519
But that's why they always put Kate with your team.

718
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:03.839
Because they're so good.

719
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:09.420
So again, we're getting this backstory, but like it's not being

720
00:33:09.420 --> 00:33:10.859
told in order or is it?

721
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:11.519
I don't know.

722
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:12.720
Do you know what I mean?

723
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:14.579
Like, no, this is before.

724
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.099
And then we see them arrive.

725
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:19.259
No, because they've already been fired on.

726
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:20.880
You see, I can't even tell what's happening.

727
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.660
I just don't understand the context of this moment in the war as

728
00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:24.839
well.

729
00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:27.000
I don't understand why this is important.

730
00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:29.039
I don't know, it's so muddy.

731
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:31.680
Well, from the point of view of the episode.

732
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:34.680
It's all 4 of them in the scene together, right?

733
00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:37.140
So they've shared some experience.

734
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.259
They've all been together and I think it's telling that they're in

735
00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:41.460
their uniforms as well.

736
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:43.980
It probably looks quite nice, even though, though..

737
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:46.019
Look at you, me so...

738
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:52.440
I mean, Harrod looks great when his hair falls down later on. down

739
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:52.920
there, yeah.

740
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:53.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

741
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:55.200
I love Harry's floppy hair.

742
00:33:55.259 --> 00:33:55.559
Bless him.

743
00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:58.259
Just ignore the acting and look at the pretty facts.

744
00:33:58.380 --> 00:33:59.940
He is pretty.

745
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.940
It's not a great actor, though, let's be honest.

746
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:04.740
What's he done since this?

747
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.799
Oh, a lot of Star Trek cruises, that's what.

748
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:12.480
Oh, no, please don't come back to the observation.

749
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:14.039
Come on, we were doing all right.

750
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:19.199
Now we're doing some cheaper, like a cheaper narration of what's

751
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:19.739
happening.

752
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:26.940
And so again, you know, we could be seeing this thing is that, like

753
00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:28.739
there's sort of an attempt at that.

754
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:33.840
We could be learning this via the flashback at the same time as

755
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.440
there.

756
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:35.940
Yeah, see, they're sort of doing that.

757
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.780
But what they seem to do instead is trying to tell the story and

758
00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:44.880
depicting all the cheapest parts of the story in flashback and

759
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.559
then telling us all the other parts.

760
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:47.519
Is that what's happening?

761
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:51.599
It really is boiling down sort of conflict to its simplest

762
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:52.679
possible level as well.

763
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:54.059
Innocents get hurt, you know?

764
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:56.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

765
00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:57.659
And that's okay.

766
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.940
Like, I do like that it's an atrocity.

767
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.019
It's a thing.

768
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:03.659
And I like the idea that...

769
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:05.159
Oh, what a care about the innocence.

770
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:06.960
I want give a shit about those people.

771
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:09.480
As far as I'm concerned, they're just a bunch of extras.

772
00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:11.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

773
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.079
But they do get a couple of lines.

774
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:17.699
There's that woman in the cave and the older man, you know, there

775
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:21.840
was that woman that we were talking to, you know, they do get

776
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.320
lines.

777
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:25.079
They're not just extras and there's children there who are

778
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:26.159
presumably killed as well.

779
00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:28.440
This is very well lit, I think.

780
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:30.960
I do like the sort of moonlight effect they're putting over it, but

781
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:33.480
also the way the sort of explosions are lighting up people as

782
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:33.719
well.

783
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:34.679
There's a bit of smoke.

784
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:35.880
And there's a bit of atmosphere.

785
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.860
And there's a lot of extras.

786
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.420
There are a lot of extras here. yeah Again, I wish I gave a damn

787
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:45.239
but yeah, there are a lot of extras being murdered right now.

788
00:35:45.420 --> 00:35:49.500
So, but why are they shooting them because they're running away?

789
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:51.900
I don't understand why they panicked.

790
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.480
They panicked and...

791
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.460
They won't be because they make that much sense.

792
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:58.739
Why didn't they have any other choice?

793
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.559
Oh, he said I tried to protect the children.

794
00:36:01.619 --> 00:36:03.239
That's why you tried to protect Naomi.

795
00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:03.539
Okay.

796
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.800
Yeah, there you go.

797
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:05.460
There you go.

798
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.719
Yeah, yeah.

799
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:09.000
Long lingering shot on Gara out there.

800
00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:10.619
I just had to get out of there, you know?

801
00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:13.739
Straight to stop Kate's set number 58.

802
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.860
Here we go. number one. we are.

803
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.860
And again, you know, like, I think the lawyer does a lot.

804
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:27.780
Yeah, yeah, but there is there is a harsh lighting to this that I

805
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:28.860
think is really effective.

806
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.920
Well, they're, he's using the torch as well.

807
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:33.300
It's very X-Filsy, isn't it?

808
00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:36.900
Oh no, well, I like those torches that they have strapped to their

809
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:37.199
arms.

810
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.739
Remember the ones in Star Trek, the Next Generation, where those

811
00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:43.920
palm torches they held in their hands so that wires could go

812
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:48.360
through their uniforms and power them because they couldn't be

813
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:49.019
battery powered.

814
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:49.800
They wouldn't have.

815
00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:52.199
You may not notice, because you don't tend to notice, just sort of

816
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:53.219
thinking, no, it's true.

817
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.340
But actually, when he came into the cave here, I did notice

818
00:36:56.340 --> 00:36:58.019
Musical Sting.

819
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.079
It was like a very dark, pulsing bit of music.

820
00:37:01.139 --> 00:37:03.480
Well, I was like, my God, they're...

821
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:04.860
Well, look, it's something, all right?

822
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.159
It wasn't just the usual David Bell nonsense.

823
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:10.920
I know that, but there was a sense of oppression.

824
00:37:10.980 --> 00:37:11.880
I thought.

825
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:14.579
Yeah.

826
00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:16.079
Yeah.

827
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:17.280
I didn't like this one.

828
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.139
It's a load of people, right?

829
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:20.760
may as well just murder these 2 as well.

830
00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.199
Yeah.

831
00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:23.159
Yeah.

832
00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:25.679
So what happens if the guy lunges at him and he just shoots them.

833
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:29.699
Well, I think doesn't he shoot up and there's a lot of confusion

834
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:32.039
with the rocks coming down and everything and he just starts

835
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:32.460
shooting.

836
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:33.360
Oh okay.

837
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:33.780
Yeah.

838
00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:36.239
Yeah, yeah, I think that's it.

839
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:37.019
He panics.

840
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:38.699
Oh, crikey.

841
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:41.219
Oh, God, look.

842
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:43.679
Close up of him, holding up his hand, sweating.

843
00:37:43.739 --> 00:37:44.460
Oh my god.

844
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

845
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:47.280
God, come on.

846
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:49.739
Why wouldn't they lessen?

847
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:54.900
Oh, boy.

848
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:59.159
I mean, I did say to you in a message that this is the sort of

849
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:03.300
stuff that they would ask Nana to do throughout the entirety of

850
00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:06.599
DS9, talk about times in her terrorist days where she did

851
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:09.780
appalling acts and fuck me. she could pull it off every single

852
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:12.719
time because she's a really good actress.

853
00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:14.280
But, you know.

854
00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:15.420
Yeah.

855
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.900
But I mean, It's amateur hour on Voyager, I'm afraid.

856
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:22.500
Well, yeah, but also I just think for script reasons because

857
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:26.340
that's part of who her character is and her backstory and because

858
00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:28.380
those things happen to her.

859
00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:33.360
It means something, things happen to someone else. no one quite

860
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:34.320
knows how to play it.

861
00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:36.659
That's an old disconnect, isn't it?

862
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.679
I feel like they should have somehow, somehow given them roles

863
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:44.340
that mean something to them as a person within Voyager.

864
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:44.820
Yeah, yeah.

865
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:45.300
Yeah.

866
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.360
And I don't think it would have taken too much tinkering to do

867
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:48.539
that.

868
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:53.099
Well, I mean, I guess the protecting the children thing is their

869
00:38:53.099 --> 00:38:58.199
attempt to do that because Nelix is the one who, you know, he's

870
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.079
seen looking after Naomi all the time and telling her stories and

871
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:01.559
stuff like that.

872
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:04.079
So I think they do attempt to do that with Neelix.

873
00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:07.440
But because they don't tell this story because it's also messy and

874
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:08.219
incoherent.

875
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.699
Don't want to be competent right now, Nathan.

876
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:15.480
Oh, Jesus Christ, this is such a terrible scene.

877
00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:22.260
And like, this, again, this is PTSD, but and we know about people

878
00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:25.619
who came back home from theatres of borum were violent and angry

879
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:27.119
and staff.

880
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:30.539
We also know about people who just refuse to ever talk about it

881
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:30.960
again.

882
00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:32.099
Do you know what I mean?

883
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.280
who live their lives and tried to get back to their lives as being

884
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.440
husbands and fathers or whatever.

885
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.039
Just screaming out these lines.

886
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:42.780
There's no emotion in what he's saying.

887
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:43.800
It's just hysteria.

888
00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:46.139
But he's awful.

889
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:47.760
He's awful.

890
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:52.380
This is how when he's stressed, he treats B'lana and he's not

891
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:53.099
possessed.

892
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:56.760
You know, a bad thing happened to him and now he's taking it out

893
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.340
on her because he's a prick.

894
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:01.860
I don't know why.

895
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:03.300
Stop pushing me. pushing me.

896
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:05.039
I don't like want your help.

897
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:07.079
It's so awful.

898
00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:11.639
And like, rather, she should just walk out and never go back.

899
00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:14.880
She does say, you know where to find me.

900
00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:17.219
And he says, I'm sorry.

901
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:18.960
I would say, do you know what?

902
00:40:19.019 --> 00:40:21.000
You're a cum. and just walk off.

903
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:22.320
That's right.

904
00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:25.679
Like, like, that was that was awful and that should be

905
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:27.059
relationship ending.

906
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:32.460
And I don't know why Star Trek wants to depict this man in that

907
00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:34.860
way with her.

908
00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:37.320
Oh, sorry to interrupt this man on the screen, right?

909
00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.539
He's got a huge grid on his face.

910
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:41.400
A dreadful latex.

911
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:44.699
Look at look at Kate's reaction and she's like...

912
00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:47.699
Jesus, something about how photogenic he is.

913
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.280
And then the ageing process line?

914
00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:51.420
She says, oh, did you buy any?

915
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.199
But the picture is literally how I imagine that alien would take a

916
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:55.679
selfie.

917
00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:56.699
He just looks so happy.

918
00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:00.119
I wonder if that's the alien Kate was talking about, you know.

919
00:41:00.179 --> 00:41:00.900
No, no, no.

920
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.000
I think she's talking about the Malon in that convention.

921
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.179
She had a face like a bum.

922
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:10.320
They were testing us, all right.

923
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:12.960
Oh, bless.

924
00:41:13.019 --> 00:41:17.460
Now we've got, you know, one of the best actors on the show in the

925
00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:18.480
flashbacks now.

926
00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:20.460
Oh, I love this scene.

927
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:20.880
Yeah.

928
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:21.960
Yeah.

929
00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:25.019
And also the other thing that I really like too.

930
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:26.880
And they deliberately set this up.

931
00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:32.579
So you've got, it must be Softra, who is vaporising the bodies so

932
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:34.920
that there's no evidence of what they've done.

933
00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:39.719
It's the opposite of the instinct that caused the people to set up

934
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:40.559
the memorial.

935
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:44.820
And it would be interesting too, if it was the survivors of this

936
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:47.699
because all the colonists are dead.

937
00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:52.019
If it was the survivors of this, the people who did this, who set

938
00:41:52.019 --> 00:41:53.159
up this memorial.

939
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:57.659
And so you've got, you know, a this is a similar conflict to the

940
00:41:57.659 --> 00:42:02.219
conflict at the end on a on a much, you know, fiercer scale

941
00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:05.400
because it's about, you know, vaporising dead bodies and staff.

942
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:11.099
Which is that you've just described, remember that. is basically

943
00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:11.940
how that plays out.

944
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.300
It's just a better episode than this.

945
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:19.380
How do you unlearn lessons as you go through the seasons?

946
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:20.460
Yeah, the same show.

947
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:24.539
But she's saying she's actually saying we have to remember these

948
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:24.960
people.

949
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:25.980
We murdered them.

950
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:27.239
We need to remember them.

951
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:34.260
You know, like, um, and so she's there and that prefigures how

952
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:37.980
she's going to react to the memorial when she actually finds her.

953
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:39.539
But that's interesting.

954
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.679
Do you know what I mean?

955
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:43.320
Like, it doesn't go anywhere, but someone there.

956
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.260
In this country, nobody talks about the Germans that fail.

957
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:49.739
They just talk about the, you know, we were right and good and

958
00:42:49.739 --> 00:42:52.619
just and they were encroaching on our territory and we went over

959
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:55.199
there and we gave them a bloody nose, you know?

960
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:59.639
But I mean, all I see is us going over and murdering 1000000s of

961
00:42:59.639 --> 00:42:59.940
people.

962
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.480
I think, you know, like I think Second World War is obviously a

963
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:05.579
different thing from the 1st World War.

964
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:11.159
But these should be remembered as things that happen when we go

965
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:12.360
wrong in some way.

966
00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:17.519
Um, uh, like, I think, you know, like, I think, I think it's

967
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.760
complicated, but I do think memorialising what happened to

968
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:24.480
civilians, what happened to women and children, what happened to

969
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:29.039
non-competents, what happened to the kids who were, persuaded to

970
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:29.519
go over there.

971
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:30.960
Yeah, of course.

972
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.320
See, you know, on the new city's blasted.

973
00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:36.659
I'm fairly certain. there were plenty of civilians there.

974
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:38.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

975
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:40.079
Yeah, no, we keep doing it.

976
00:43:40.139 --> 00:43:44.699
Oddly enough, we just sort of, you know, turn away from it, don't

977
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:44.880
we?

978
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:46.739
We don't, we, yeah.

979
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:48.059
Well, yeah.

980
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:49.559
How did you go on, though?

981
00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:52.619
You can't, you can't dive into this stuff all the time and then

982
00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:53.940
just keep going on with your life.

983
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.719
That's right.

984
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:55.619
Yeah.

985
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:57.300
But it's worth remembering.

986
00:43:57.719 --> 00:43:58.139
Sometimes.

987
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.219
And being traumatised by it is not the worst thing that could ever

988
00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:02.460
happen.

989
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:03.420
Do you know what I mean?

990
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:04.619
Like, that's not the worst thing.

991
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:06.599
I don't watch the news though, Nathan.

992
00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:08.159
I would be constantly traumatised.

993
00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:09.420
Yeah.

994
00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:14.280
You have a way of compartmentalising this stuff that I admire.

995
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:24.900
So, so, yes, I think, you know, having getting Kate involved.

996
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.059
That does change things, doesn't it?

997
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.940
Because that eliminates the idea that these people were kidnapped

998
00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:31.079
and were really involved.

999
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:34.500
So now we're closer to understanding what's going on.

1000
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.619
This is a plague, some memory thing that's happening.

1001
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:43.739
Now, this young man here is Ensign Ashmore, and he is in 33

1002
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:48.420
episodes of Voyager. in all those episodes, though, or is he just

1003
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:49.619
in the background scenes?

1004
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:51.599
But he is in series 2.

1005
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.900
He is in series 2 and he's in end game.

1006
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:57.480
And he does some Star Trek the Next Generation.

1007
00:44:57.539 --> 00:45:00.840
So he's just one of their staple of extras that comes in.

1008
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:02.639
I just like Lieutenant John.

1009
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:05.400
The old the scene with Seven and Neelix in a minute.

1010
00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:07.619
That moment where she was just very tender with him.

1011
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.920
That was the best sort of character moment.

1012
00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:11.699
I thought, in this whole thing.

1013
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:14.820
And that's where some random extra.

1014
00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:19.199
They remember they remember that there are other people on the

1015
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:20.400
ship for a child.

1016
00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:21.059
I love this.

1017
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:25.019
The sou players collapsed. but has maintained its nutritional

1018
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:28.260
integrity. content.

1019
00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:32.760
And the other thing is that she's put chocolate in it and we

1020
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:35.940
discover later that she's put chocolate in it and that makes him

1021
00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:38.639
feel better and she's done it thoughtfully because she likes

1022
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:39.480
Neelix.

1023
00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:42.960
Again, this is a scene between 2 of the best performances

1024
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:43.800
performers on the show.

1025
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:46.679
It's a lovely... doing a great job.

1026
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:49.679
Yeah, they're very different from one another as well.

1027
00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:52.139
They're both outsiders as well, aren't they?

1028
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:54.719
You know, he's not federation, she was a Borg.

1029
00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:58.199
So they have a unique perspective.

1030
00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:00.900
It's the same reason I love, I don't know, Quark and Garrett

1031
00:46:00.900 --> 00:46:02.219
together in DSI.

1032
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.860
It's a very unique look at the show.

1033
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:09.119
Although Alan Croeca, the shot in a minute, where you put the

1034
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:10.559
camera, poor old Neelix.

1035
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:12.960
Watch him eating that dessert.

1036
00:46:13.019 --> 00:46:15.960
I've not seen anything as horrific at being eaten since Richard

1037
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:19.320
Herndle devoured that pineapple when the 5 doctors.

1038
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.659
Sorry. niche niche reference there.

1039
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:26.940
So I love this scene too, because it does actually tell us

1040
00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:27.840
something about seven.

1041
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:29.219
Do you ever feel shame?

1042
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:32.579
And you expected to say, no, I had no choice or something like

1043
00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:32.820
that.

1044
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:34.500
And she says, no, frequently I do.

1045
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.860
And that's okay because it means that I won't do it again.

1046
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:40.260
You know, like, I think that's great.

1047
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.519
And getting her, do you remember she was so complicated in series

1048
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:45.059
four?

1049
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:49.920
Now this is her being wise about how emotions work and how guilt

1050
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:50.400
works.

1051
00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:51.539
I think it's really good.

1052
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:52.860
It is.

1053
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:55.019
But she's not going through this.

1054
00:46:55.079 --> 00:46:55.679
It's so odd.

1055
00:46:55.739 --> 00:46:58.739
And this is her contractual obligation scene, right?

1056
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.840
I think this is the only scene she's in in this episode.

1057
00:47:01.739 --> 00:47:06.360
But I think it's a good scene pairing her up with Neelix, who is

1058
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.920
savvy and stuff like that.

1059
00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:12.900
Um, and having her being kind and comforting him, though she's a

1060
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:15.659
Borg, and having her teach him something.

1061
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.000
Use a spoon.

1062
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:20.519
Come on. crash.

1063
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:24.179
Oh, now, now I did say to you, didn't I?

1064
00:47:24.179 --> 00:47:26.159
This does have one up on the inner light.

1065
00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:27.239
We go outside.

1066
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:28.920
Yeah, yeah.

1067
00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:31.980
Which is, it does look I mean, it is obviously the usual sort of

1068
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:34.500
Southern California, you know, the same sort of fields that we

1069
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:38.880
normally see. the Silicon Avatar to come in and wipe out Riker's

1070
00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:39.659
girlfriend, don't you?

1071
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:43.440
But I do think that memorial is a potent image.

1072
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:46.199
Yeah, well... it's really good.

1073
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:50.400
There's a bit where you shot from above and you can see all the

1074
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:52.860
federation people, so you can really see the scale of it.

1075
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.059
And then at the end, he starts with the camera low and shoots up a

1076
00:47:57.059 --> 00:47:57.300
bit.

1077
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.059
Really sort of dominating the camera.

1078
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.500
Yeah, I think it's really good.

1079
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:02.460
It's probably good.

1080
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:08.099
And it's the sort of thing that they can do with CGI well at this

1081
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:12.300
point in the year 2000. it's integrated into the into the scene.

1082
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:13.079
It looks good.

1083
00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:13.980
I think it's great.

1084
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:19.800
And having a physical object, a real proper solid physical object

1085
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.780
because that's what memorials are in our world.

1086
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.320
If it had just been a space thing or an antenna or some bullshit

1087
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:25.980
do you know what I mean?

1088
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:30.960
But it's a, it's a, an actual monument with carvings on it, which

1089
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:36.239
is what our memorials are, what our war memorials are.

1090
00:48:36.300 --> 00:48:39.239
It just needs another draft this, doesn't it?

1091
00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:45.780
It needs another draft to add some detail so we care about the

1092
00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:51.059
people that are being depicted and just to shove the PTSD material

1093
00:48:51.059 --> 00:48:52.679
away from the weaker actors.

1094
00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:54.780
Yeah, yeah.

1095
00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:57.179
I think it could have been great, yeah.

1096
00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:01.500
I think de-emphasizing the mystery.

1097
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.500
I think because we only know what's happening really late.

1098
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:10.320
We don't get to spend enough time on the, on the actual event and

1099
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:11.639
I think that that matters.

1100
00:49:11.699 --> 00:49:15.239
And I think Brannan realises it matters because he says in

1101
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:19.860
dialogue, oh, it's malfunctioning, so it's only sending us bits of

1102
00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:23.699
the story. and it, you don't have that line, Brannan.

1103
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:24.960
You could just tell the story.

1104
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.619
That's right I think that that seemed apologising for not doing a

1105
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:30.000
good job of telling that story.

1106
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:33.420
And I think you could, interesting. tell that story.

1107
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.659
And he was like, oh, no, I've only got one more cup of coffee in

1108
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:36.840
me.

1109
00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:42.420
I'll add this line No, I think that Brannan is more interested in

1110
00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:46.739
puzzle boxes and high concept stuff and him telling an emotional

1111
00:49:46.739 --> 00:49:49.619
story about how these people panicked and killed these people.

1112
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:54.300
I think that's why pillar is a better showrunner or teller of

1113
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:55.260
stories.

1114
00:49:55.260 --> 00:50:00.420
That's why, you know, TNG 3 to 5 are so great.

1115
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:01.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1116
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:02.699
I think you're right.

1117
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:04.860
I think that that's that's a problem.

1118
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:07.800
Brandon can't do that stuff.

1119
00:50:07.860 --> 00:50:09.780
And he can do some things well.

1120
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:13.739
I remember loving the Brannan Braga episodes of TNG, the really

1121
00:50:13.739 --> 00:50:19.320
fun, interesting high concept episodes that he does in that run.

1122
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.900
But here, and he's trying to do that here.

1123
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:24.840
But I, and he's trying to make a point too.

1124
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:25.559
And he makes it.

1125
00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:26.760
I think he makes it well.

1126
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:30.059
But the episode just doesn't work, though.

1127
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:33.480
Well, most of those Brighton episodes of TNG.

1128
00:50:33.539 --> 00:50:35.460
It was just them doing really quirky things.

1129
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:37.019
So we're just fun to watch, right?

1130
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:39.239
There were those actors that we know so well by that point.

1131
00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:43.380
And so you watch stuff like Phantasms with Troy as the peptide

1132
00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:44.219
cake and things like that.

1133
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.900
It's just...

1134
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:48.780
Oh, no, I like timescape. the one with the magical brick.

1135
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:50.099
I really don't like that one.

1136
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:52.139
Oh, yeah, that's one on the train.

1137
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.880
Emergence, possibly.

1138
00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:55.739
That's so perfectly directed by episode.

1139
00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:59.519
That was the bad thing about T and G7.

1140
00:50:59.699 --> 00:51:01.019
I forgot how to execute TV.

1141
00:51:01.139 --> 00:51:03.780
Yeah, that was sometimes a problem.

1142
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.599
I think this is very effective now, Harry crawling through there.

1143
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:08.579
I was sort of getting a beer.

1144
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:09.300
For the 3rd time.

1145
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:10.440
Yeah, wow.

1146
00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:11.159
Yeah.

1147
00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:12.059
Yeah.

1148
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:13.619
So we saw him in the Jeffries tube.

1149
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:17.880
We saw him in the, you know, in the flashback and now we see him

1150
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:19.739
do it again here.

1151
00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:24.119
And I guess this is the big revelation, isn't it?

1152
00:51:24.179 --> 00:51:26.880
And again, this is a sort of revelation that should a few of them

1153
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.099
should be making at the same time in different ways.

1154
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:30.539
Don't you think?

1155
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:33.480
Like if it was clearer what everyone's role was.

1156
00:51:33.539 --> 00:51:35.519
Like Harry has a very particular role.

1157
00:51:35.579 --> 00:51:39.420
We don't really see what bad thing Neelix does, do we?

1158
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:40.440
No.

1159
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:43.559
You know, we don't really see what bad thing Chakotay does.

1160
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:47.460
A case is just a reaction to the horror, isn't it, rather than

1161
00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:48.059
actually doing that.

1162
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:48.659
Yeah, yeah.

1163
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:52.440
And Kate's doing the thing that will lead to the, you know, she's

1164
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.440
expressing the viewpoint that must have led to the creation of the

1165
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:55.920
memorial.

1166
00:51:55.980 --> 00:51:59.099
I really, really like the lighting in this episode.

1167
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:01.320
Like, this is basically a black room where they're just being

1168
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.579
picked out in the cinema.

1169
00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:04.079
It's really effective.

1170
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:07.320
They're learning some lessons.

1171
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:09.840
Oh, no, wait, we've got collective coming later this season.

1172
00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:11.639
Oh, that awful lot.

1173
00:52:11.699 --> 00:52:13.860
Fabulous yellow jail.

1174
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:17.400
Oh, boy.

1175
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:20.340
I mean some of the imagery is quite potent.

1176
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:23.699
The shot of all the dead bodies on the forest floor.

1177
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:26.400
That's, you know, that's quite strong.

1178
00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:26.940
Yeah.

1179
00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:29.340
Yeah.

1180
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:33.480
I don't know, like, this was being made now, I think it would be

1181
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:36.960
more graphic, wouldn't it, than they did. to be here.

1182
00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:38.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1183
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:40.260
Yeah, well, that's...

1184
00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:41.940
I'm really quite graphic, sometimes.

1185
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:42.900
Oh, boy, hedge.

1186
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:43.739
Gemini.

1187
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:44.280
Do you remember?

1188
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:47.400
Jesus, faces melting off in those sacks and things.

1189
00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:48.360
Wonderful.

1190
00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:50.099
That's beautiful.

1191
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.440
Yeah.

1192
00:52:52.500 --> 00:52:54.780
And it's a nice design as well.

1193
00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:56.039
Yeah.

1194
00:52:56.099 --> 00:53:00.119
Well, it looks like those World War I memorials that are in, you

1195
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:01.199
know, village squares.

1196
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:02.519
You know, it's vertical.

1197
00:53:02.579 --> 00:53:03.960
It's got a thing on top.

1198
00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:06.960
You know, like it looks like a memorial, obviously much more

1199
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:07.619
monumental.

1200
00:53:07.619 --> 00:53:09.960
Covered in sort of, you know, sci-fi symbols and everything

1201
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:11.940
covered in alien symbols as usual.

1202
00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:15.000
No, but with carvings on it, like in stone.

1203
00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:20.280
Now, I've got to ask you, do you think that Kate has been made up

1204
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:24.420
to look exhausted there or my theory that I sent to you that, in

1205
00:53:24.420 --> 00:53:28.500
fact, they just waited until 16 hours into a day and then sent to

1206
00:53:28.500 --> 00:53:31.079
get in front of the camera, you're supposed to look like you're

1207
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:31.860
having slept for a while.

1208
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:33.179
I mean, look at her.

1209
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:34.320
She looks rough there.

1210
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.579
Everyone's got bags under her eyes.

1211
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:39.780
I mean, she never looks rougher.

1212
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:42.599
Well, she never looks rougher than when she was in coarse oblivion

1213
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:44.039
with the tube coming out of her nose.

1214
00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:47.280
I think they're making her up them all up to look like that.

1215
00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:48.480
They're doing it to Robert too.

1216
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:48.780
Look.

1217
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:50.460
Yeah, bags under the eyes.

1218
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:51.239
It's quite effective.

1219
00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:52.380
It's quite subtle, actually.

1220
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:53.460
Yeah.

1221
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:56.699
Words alone cannot convey the suffering.

1222
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:58.679
Yeah, beyond experience.

1223
00:53:58.679 --> 00:53:59.519
This life's truth.

1224
00:53:59.579 --> 00:54:01.500
Make this truth your own.

1225
00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:05.099
What am I supposed to take from that?

1226
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:09.719
Oh, it's it's an explanation of what they're trying to do with the

1227
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:10.320
memorial.

1228
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:15.840
It's not enough to just tell you we want you to experience it and

1229
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.179
that's how you learn the truth of this thing.

1230
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:19.559
Like it's a justification.

1231
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:21.420
I've got to take on the PTSD, though.

1232
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:22.440
I was no part of that war.

1233
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:23.219
I was just passing.

1234
00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:27.900
Well, but they want to make sure that you don't do a thing like

1235
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:28.019
that.

1236
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:30.599
This doesn't happen about doing something like that.

1237
00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:33.360
Yeah, we all will.

1238
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:37.199
Yeah, but that's what I thought was good too.

1239
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:41.340
I thought, you know, yes, a proper war memorial, a proper kind of

1240
00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:44.880
memorial about what happened to the war, learning the stories, of

1241
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.019
what people experience in war is horrible and that's okay.

1242
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:49.619
It should be.

1243
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:53.880
I think if they hadn't put the boy, I might have had an issue with

1244
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:57.480
the ending of just, you know, people just sort of going into that

1245
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.519
area of space not knowing.

1246
00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:03.420
But I think making it a choice is it's great.

1247
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:08.579
It's an unusually effective, simple solution to avoid your

1248
00:55:08.579 --> 00:55:09.059
episode.

1249
00:55:09.900 --> 00:55:11.340
Yeah.

1250
00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:14.460
I mean, normally we just tie things up in a very quick scene

1251
00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:15.719
unsatisfactorily.

1252
00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:18.780
Neelix has got saying good things here.

1253
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:21.059
Like people really tried to do that.

1254
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:22.500
We can't deactivated.

1255
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:23.400
It would be wrong.

1256
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:28.320
It would be like vaporising the dead bodies after the massacre.

1257
00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:30.420
Chakoto, say what I just said to you.

1258
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.280
Well, why do I have to commit atrocities?

1259
00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:32.880
didn't commit.

1260
00:55:32.940 --> 00:55:34.440
Which is also fair.

1261
00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:36.300
You know, that's a reasonable position.

1262
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:38.280
So no one's being a massive dickhead to you.

1263
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:41.340
Probably except for the worst, Robert.

1264
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:44.039
It's something that DS9 does really well all the time.

1265
00:55:44.099 --> 00:55:49.079
It froze in a dilemma and then lets you see both sides of both

1266
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:52.500
points of view and they're very often both right.

1267
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.119
And that's where your drama is, right?

1268
00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:55.800
There's no there's no easy answer.

1269
00:55:56.340 --> 00:56:00.599
But I quite like that she just comes in and contradicts

1270
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.900
contradicts Chakotay, who says some things are best forgotten.

1271
00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:06.119
And she says, no, no, no, no.

1272
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:10.980
And she mentions other war memorials in the in the great Star Trek

1273
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:12.179
tradition, a made up one.

1274
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:15.599
Normally it's 2 real ones followed by a made up one, but they've

1275
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:16.079
just got the one.

1276
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:21.480
Nathan, am I a dictator, if I suggest to 82 doesn't seem like a

1277
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:21.960
lot of people.

1278
00:56:22.019 --> 00:56:24.179
I might have bumped that number up a bit.

1279
00:56:25.139 --> 00:56:31.860
I think, no, I think it actually, because it's 82 and that's

1280
00:56:31.860 --> 00:56:35.639
enough for it to matter, that's enough to build the big memorial

1281
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:38.219
because 82 innocent people died.

1282
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:43.920
Each person only has one life to lose, you know, so I think making

1283
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:45.840
it a more comprehensible number.

1284
00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:50.099
I only have to be one and I was 82 to change my styles for it

1285
00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:50.400
don't I?

1286
00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:51.179
Yeah that's right.

1287
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:54.719
And anyone who was one of those 82 was just completely one of

1288
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:55.320
those 82.

1289
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:56.519
That looks super shy.

1290
00:56:56.579 --> 00:56:58.320
So convincing. much of that did they build?

1291
00:56:58.380 --> 00:57:00.960
Yeah, yeah, that's not.

1292
00:57:01.019 --> 00:57:02.760
Is he just the gray bits at the bottom, do you think?

1293
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:03.659
I think so.

1294
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:04.739
I think they've built.

1295
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:06.360
Yeah, that's really good, isn't it?

1296
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:07.739
That's a physical wall.

1297
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:09.000
Actually, that's quite, yeah.

1298
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:10.619
I think they got the bottom base.

1299
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:13.139
Yeah, everything else is an effect.

1300
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:14.340
But yeah, good stuff.

1301
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.679
That's pretty rare, isn't it?

1302
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:20.340
You know, for them to dress a location like that as well, for them

1303
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:21.840
to erect a thing on location?

1304
00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:25.079
I mean, it's pretty rare for the fucking go on location, let alone

1305
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:26.820
kind of, you know, build a thing.

1306
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:31.440
Do you know, I do think, though, I think, I know this is a puzzle

1307
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:31.800
box.

1308
00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:36.659
I think they are going for something hard hitting.

1309
00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:39.599
I think they want this to be, you know, far beyond the stars or

1310
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:42.300
something like that, you know, really powerful stuff.

1311
00:57:42.900 --> 00:57:45.780
And I do think it falls short of that.

1312
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:46.980
Yeah, I do too.

1313
00:57:47.099 --> 00:57:51.119
But I, you know, like I like how ambitious, ambitious it is, and I

1314
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:52.980
don't think it completely fails.

1315
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.199
I don't think it completely fails.

1316
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:56.039
It did work on me.

1317
00:57:56.099 --> 00:57:57.900
It did make me think about those things.

1318
00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:00.000
It's lush, sure, even.

1319
00:58:00.059 --> 00:58:01.559
That's gorgeous.

1320
00:58:01.619 --> 00:58:04.739
It goes right up the memorial, so the light coming on.

1321
00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:06.840
It's really good.

1322
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.980
And the big that big light, the big glowing light, which is the

1323
00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:14.519
you know, sending out those memories, I think, is really great.

1324
00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:15.719
It's like the sun.

1325
00:58:15.780 --> 00:58:18.599
The long shot as well, is really... useful.

1326
00:58:18.659 --> 00:58:19.679
Really, very good.

1327
00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:23.039
It's very unusual for us to sort of have issues throughout and

1328
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:25.619
then say, well, the ending was great in a boyish race.

1329
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:26.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1330
00:58:26.940 --> 00:58:27.780
Yeah.

1331
00:58:27.900 --> 00:58:28.500
Yeah.

1332
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.599
Like I can't hate that episode.

1333
00:58:30.659 --> 00:58:33.659
I think it fails in all sorts of ways, but it's trying something

1334
00:58:33.659 --> 00:58:35.280
worth trying.

1335
00:58:35.340 --> 00:58:36.780
And like I said before.

1336
00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:39.480
I have been thinking about it since watching it.

1337
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:41.639
You know, like I don't think I'll forget it.

1338
00:58:41.699 --> 00:58:47.880
I think my biggest issue is, um, the thing it made me think about

1339
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:55.260
most was me and my country and how we memorialise atrocities from

1340
00:58:55.260 --> 00:58:59.639
the past and I never once think about the characters within the

1341
00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:00.539
story.

1342
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.380
And that's kind of a problem when I am watching a bit of

1343
00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:07.860
television, but it's not often an episode of Voyager makes me

1344
00:59:07.860 --> 00:59:08.880
think at all.

1345
00:59:08.940 --> 00:59:12.059
So, yeah, bravo to that.

1346
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.440
No, I think that's okay.

1347
00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:17.460
If an episode has a message, and even if it doesn't really work on

1348
00:59:17.460 --> 00:59:20.940
its own terms, if it's trying to do something and it makes you

1349
00:59:20.940 --> 00:59:22.980
think about things, that's okay, I think that's fine.

1350
00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:27.179
There are plenty of Voyager episodes that don't have a message and

1351
00:59:27.179 --> 00:59:28.380
also fail.

1352
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:32.639
You know, in much less interesting ways than that.

1353
00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:35.460
So I think this is a net win.

1354
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:38.099
Oh, win maybe too strong for me.

1355
00:59:38.219 --> 00:59:42.420
A reasonable attempt to do something effective, which kind of

1356
00:59:42.420 --> 00:59:46.619
fails seem to seem, I would say, but like, I don't understand as

1357
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:46.800
well.

1358
00:59:46.860 --> 00:59:52.380
They realise very early on that Neelix as the jealous other half

1359
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:54.960
to Kez wasn't working at all, right?

1360
00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:57.119
So they took a different tack with him.

1361
00:59:57.179 --> 01:00:01.139
And they wrote a story where they were sort of going out of the

1362
01:00:01.139 --> 01:00:04.199
area of space that he knows and suddenly they gave him

1363
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:07.980
ambassadorial duties and had a kid to look after and a wonderful

1364
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:09.840
relationship with 7 of 9.

1365
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:13.079
And you and I have discovered as we've gone through this, that he

1366
01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:14.099
can flourish, right?

1367
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:15.539
And Ethan can be really charming.

1368
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:18.960
What the fuck did they not learn the same lessons with Tom Paris?

1369
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:21.599
Like he just gets worse and worse.

1370
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:25.019
This is the same season with Alice in it, for God's sakes. you

1371
01:00:25.019 --> 01:00:25.199
know?

1372
01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:28.260
And then in drive next year, he's just as obnoxious.

1373
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:33.179
Like, the only conclusion I can draw with how they're presenting

1374
01:00:33.179 --> 01:00:39.119
him is that they think that that is a great character as

1375
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:41.039
presented.

1376
01:00:41.099 --> 01:00:42.539
I think he's okay.

1377
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:44.340
That's madness, right?

1378
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:47.039
No wonder we ended up with Archer.

1379
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:48.599
Exactly right.

1380
01:00:57.659 --> 01:01:02.039
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1381
01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:03.599
work out where we're going next.

1382
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:08.880
Christmas is at hand, and so we are going to continue our seasonal

1383
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:13.380
tradition of celebrating Christmas with a Star Trek film.

1384
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:19.739
Now, I chose this one last time, and so Joe, it's your turn to

1385
01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:22.679
pick Star Trek film.

1386
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:27.960
It feels very strange because very often when using the randomiser

1387
01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.940
I select every show, don't I?

1388
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:31.440
But d-select the films.

1389
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:35.400
Today, I've de-select every show and only selected the films.

1390
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:38.099
I only get to do this once a year.

1391
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:38.699
All right.

1392
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.079
We need to make this selection good.

1393
01:01:40.139 --> 01:01:41.460
Okay.

1394
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:42.780
Now, what'll become a sofa?

1395
01:01:42.780 --> 01:01:44.280
Voyage home.

1396
01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:48.599
So we've done Voyage Home, generations and 1st content.

1397
01:01:48.659 --> 01:01:51.900
Oh, we've done 2 of the really good ones and only one of the

1398
01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:52.500
terrible ones.

1399
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.380
Okay, wow. you ready for this?

1400
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:57.179
Even money.

1401
01:01:58.199 --> 01:02:00.480
Ooh, okay.

1402
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:06.360
Your round of Star Trek film is Star Trek three, the search for

1403
01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:07.079
Spock.

1404
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:09.840
It's, I think it's okay.

1405
01:02:09.900 --> 01:02:14.280
I think it's a bit underrated, actually, but, uh, you know, you've

1406
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:16.380
got very quiet then when I said that.

1407
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:17.820
Should I press it again?

1408
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:18.960
Yeah, go on.

1409
01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:19.739
Okay.

1410
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:26.340
Oh, it came out in 1991.

1411
01:02:26.579 --> 01:02:30.059
It's Star Trek 6, the undiscovered country.

1412
01:02:30.179 --> 01:02:33.119
It's absolutely one of the best ones.

1413
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:35.099
I love it So good.

1414
01:02:35.219 --> 01:02:37.079
It's so great.

1415
01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:39.239
It's absolutely brilliant.

1416
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:43.980
I think I went and saw it around Christmas at some point as well

1417
01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:46.380
when it 1st came out.

1418
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:47.400
What year did it come out?

1419
01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:49.139
1991.

1420
01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:50.639
Yeah.

1421
01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:51.179
Yeah.

1422
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:53.159
I think I may have seen it at Christmas.

1423
01:02:53.219 --> 01:02:56.159
This would be what, between 3 and four?

1424
01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:58.199
Just after best of both worlds?

1425
01:02:58.260 --> 01:03:00.960
Yeah, well, remember Michael's in it.

1426
01:03:01.019 --> 01:03:02.699
Remember Michael Dawn is in it.

1427
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:05.760
It was a good time for Star Trek, wasn't it, 91?

1428
01:03:05.820 --> 01:03:06.599
Yeah, yeah.

1429
01:03:06.659 --> 01:03:09.360
Renee's in it, and then he gets cut completely.

1430
01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:10.860
Now, hear me out.

1431
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:14.219
I am very tempted because I just think this is great.

1432
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:16.079
You know, it must have been your lifelong ambition.

1433
01:03:16.139 --> 01:03:16.860
It's a great movie.

1434
01:03:17.460 --> 01:03:21.059
But do we really want to be left with all the dogs?

1435
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:25.019
Okay, all right. let's try another one. you know, then we would

1436
01:03:25.019 --> 01:03:25.860
have done 2 and two.

1437
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:27.599
Well, okay, all right. one more time.

1438
01:03:27.659 --> 01:03:28.679
Oh, fuck.

1439
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:31.380
What is it?

1440
01:03:31.619 --> 01:03:34.619
Star Trek 2, the wrath of Khan.

1441
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:38.579
That's the other really good one.

1442
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:40.679
They will have done all of the good ones.

1443
01:03:40.739 --> 01:03:42.719
Okay, I think we need to do a dart.

1444
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:44.219
Okey-dokey.

1445
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:45.059
Opressa again.

1446
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:46.139
Oh, search for Spock again.

1447
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:47.159
I think that's great.

1448
01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:50.460
Oh, finally, a real dog of a movie.

1449
01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:51.900
Oh what is it?

1450
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:57.059
It's 1989, Star Trek 5, the final frontier.

1451
01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:03.000
No, sneakily, I did really want to do this one.

1452
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:07.199
Just because it is ghastly.

1453
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:12.360
But also, because I've got my charity shop found book, William

1454
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:17.280
Shatner's personal account of Star Trek 5, the final Frontier

1455
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:21.360
where he blames everybody else for all of the problems.

1456
01:04:21.420 --> 01:04:25.139
So I could bring some like fun trivia, you know, from William

1457
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:26.159
Shatner himself.

1458
01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:30.780
Yes, I think we could absolutely do that to pass the time.

1459
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.199
It's, it is a really amazing film.

1460
01:04:34.260 --> 01:04:35.760
It's got some incredible people in it.

1461
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:38.219
David Warner.

1462
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:41.579
The 1st of 2 consecutive Star Trek films he's in.

1463
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:43.679
It is very strange.

1464
01:04:43.739 --> 01:04:46.739
Which is cyber fucking Kurtzman Trek.

1465
01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:48.179
We did.

1466
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.460
He is in an early episode.

1467
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:55.800
He's in a Vulcan sex comedy episode, I think, of Stranger Worlds.

1468
01:04:55.860 --> 01:05:01.739
I think Tupring is treating him at some kind of, you know

1469
01:05:01.739 --> 01:05:02.880
sanatorium or something.

1470
01:05:02.940 --> 01:05:06.000
Oh, do you know, I might have to watch that alongside this, you

1471
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:09.360
know, to bring some extra cybok.

1472
01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:12.539
I mean, come on, this is Shatner's passion project, riot.

1473
01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:17.519
So we were thinking, yeah, if Leonard can do it, then so can I. Yes

1474
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:18.059
guess what?

1475
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:19.679
turns out perhaps not.

1476
01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:21.780
You can't.

1477
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:22.260
No.

1478
01:05:23.039 --> 01:05:26.579
Well, no, we'll have great fun with that.

1479
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:27.480
Come on.

1480
01:05:27.539 --> 01:05:31.440
Let's watch this absolute dog of a movie and have a wonderful

1481
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:31.980
Christmas.

1482
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:32.699
Okay.

1483
01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:33.480
Sounds like a plan.

1484
01:05:40.500 --> 01:05:44.460
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1485
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:48.539
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1486
01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:50.940
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1487
01:05:50.940 --> 01:05:51.840
media accounts.

1488
01:05:51.900 --> 01:05:55.860
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed

1489
01:05:55.860 --> 01:05:57.059
by Cameron Lamb.

1490
01:05:57.119 --> 01:06:01.440
This episode was recorded on the 9th of December 2025 and at least

1491
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:02.579
on the 12th of December.

1492
01:06:02.639 --> 01:06:06.840
We'll see you next time for Star Trek 5, the final frontier.

1493
01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:26.639
All right.

1494
01:06:26.699 --> 01:06:28.260
Oh, yeah, I'm going too.

1495
01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:33.659
We're down to this now.

1496
01:06:33.659 --> 01:06:34.679
Here we are.

1497
01:06:34.739 --> 01:06:36.780
This is episode 175.

1498
01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:41.340
I thought best of both worlds came out so well.

1499
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:46.619
I was having a dialogue with Mark Donaldson. who was like, um

1500
01:06:46.619 --> 01:06:50.460
you're going to have to be pretty damn convincing to convince me

1501
01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:51.840
that there's any flaws in this.

1502
01:06:51.900 --> 01:06:55.559
And then he listened to the whole thing and he was like, oh, yeah.

1503
01:06:55.559 --> 01:06:56.460
You're right, aren't you?

1504
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:04.320
I think maybe you might have watched it as well.

1505
01:07:05.460 --> 01:07:05.820
God.

1506
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:07.679
Oh, God, the camera really is a movie.

1507
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:14.159
So we have done 8 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes and 41.25 seconds, 8

1508
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:14.579
days.

1509
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:17.159
I think flights absolutely terrifying.

1510
01:07:17.219 --> 01:07:21.179
I think flights are entirety might only be like 10 or 11 days.

1511
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:25.380
Like, 0 my god, are we on the, are we on that?

1512
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:31.139
This will be your most...

1513
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:33.900
I will get it there, don't you worry.

1514
01:07:33.960 --> 01:07:34.739
I want that.

1515
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:35.280
That's awesome.

1516
01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:38.519
By the time we get there, it'll be like a month's worth, you

1517
01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:38.699
know?

1518
01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:40.380
Wait, wait, no.

1519
01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:42.300
Wait, wait, so flights for entirety.com.

1520
01:07:42.360 --> 01:07:45.119
I think I've put it on the flight through entirety page.

1521
01:07:48.179 --> 01:07:49.440
Oh no, I haven't.

1522
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:50.280
Okay.

1523
01:07:50.340 --> 01:07:51.300
I will later.

1524
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:53.699
I just love dipping into the old ones.

1525
01:07:53.760 --> 01:08:00.480
If I'm having a bad day, um, I will, I will put in my earphones at

1526
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:04.139
work and uh, I'll dip into one of the old ones where we just howl

1527
01:08:04.139 --> 01:08:09.300
quite a lot. to where I'm yelling at Trent.

1528
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:14.340
That's every single one, but they're all somewhere we howl like to

1529
01:08:14.340 --> 01:08:15.659
an outrageous degree.

1530
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:16.380
Yeah.

1531
01:08:16.439 --> 01:08:19.859
I could just imagine Star Trek fans are like, you're not supposed

1532
01:08:19.859 --> 01:08:21.359
to be having fun with this.

1533
01:08:21.420 --> 01:08:22.380
It's very serious.

1534
01:08:22.380 --> 01:08:24.539
It's very important. political commentary.

1535
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:25.500
It all happened.

1536
01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:26.939
It all really happened in the future.

1537
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:30.300
There's dates. of the memory alpha page.

1538
01:08:30.899 --> 01:08:33.180
I really fought with this.

1539
01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:39.300
I would be maybe 70% +and 30% negative.

1540
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:42.180
I think I'm the other way around actually on this one.

1541
01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:43.319
Okay, okay.

1542
01:08:43.380 --> 01:08:45.960
I think there are some serious issues with this.

1543
01:08:46.020 --> 01:08:48.420
So, but I like what he's doing.

1544
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:49.800
Yeah, I think that's how I feel as well.

1545
01:08:49.859 --> 01:08:52.800
I mean, it's got there's a voyage and a switch they can't escape

1546
01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:57.300
and it's Brannan going out of his comfort zone and not really

1547
01:08:57.300 --> 01:08:59.579
doing it.

1548
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:02.220
Um, you know, like not managing to do it.

1549
01:09:02.279 --> 01:09:07.319
And there's an episode, which I should actually look up, list of

1550
01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:10.380
strange...

1551
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:14.100
There's no point looking at memory from this one because series 6

1552
01:09:14.100 --> 01:09:15.000
and 7, man.

1553
01:09:15.060 --> 01:09:18.300
Barely a, the page is only the plot, you know?

1554
01:09:18.359 --> 01:09:19.020
Oh, really?

1555
01:09:19.020 --> 01:09:19.439
usually.

1556
01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:20.819
No interviews.

1557
01:09:20.819 --> 01:09:25.079
Yeah, they really, they really like short on quotes and things.

1558
01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:30.420
Usually this prop was sold at Star Trek, Las Vegas auction or

1559
01:09:30.420 --> 01:09:30.779
something.

1560
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:31.439
That's about it.

1561
01:09:31.500 --> 01:09:36.239
So, I mean, I knew I knew I was in trouble when it opened on the

1562
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:43.800
bantering lines between Tom, Harry, and Robert Beltran.

1563
01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:48.239
Yeah, we've got the 2 worst Roberts on the shit.

1564
01:09:48.300 --> 01:09:50.039
Baltram, man.

1565
01:09:50.100 --> 01:09:52.439
It's just not doing anything different than those scenes.

1566
01:09:52.859 --> 01:09:54.420
I don't think it meant to be a different person.

1567
01:09:54.479 --> 01:09:55.380
Like, that's it.

1568
01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:56.220
That's the thing.

1569
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:57.779
Like, it's not dramatic.

1570
01:09:57.840 --> 01:09:59.039
I don't know where we said.

1571
01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:00.899
It's not a forest, that's why.

1572
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.859
Shame, it's not dramatic. persona.

1573
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:05.880
I mean, at the clock.

1574
01:10:05.939 --> 01:10:06.479
That's true.

1575
01:10:06.539 --> 01:10:11.279
At least we learned what time it was during the course of the

1576
01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:11.640
episode.

1577
01:10:11.699 --> 01:10:15.300
And he's got an instrument to measure time for the rest of the

1578
01:10:15.300 --> 01:10:18.600
series. more consequences than this one.

1579
01:10:19.020 --> 01:10:21.720
Oh, no, we do keep the TV, I think.

1580
01:10:21.779 --> 01:10:22.619
Oh okay.

1581
01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:25.020
Oh boy, we got to talk about that.

1582
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:28.859
Fucking, no, it's absolutely perfect. except you didn't get me a

1583
01:10:28.859 --> 01:10:29.159
beer.

1584
01:10:29.220 --> 01:10:30.119
What?

1585
01:10:30.119 --> 01:10:32.760
What's the actual phone?

1586
01:10:32.819 --> 01:10:33.300
I know.

1587
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:35.699
She's like the best girlfriend ever.

1588
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:37.439
And she's gone.

1589
01:10:37.500 --> 01:10:37.979
She's there.

1590
01:10:37.979 --> 01:10:39.119
Please, all.

1591
01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:43.319
It reminded me.

1592
01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:45.539
It reminded me of you talking about the graph in decay.

1593
01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:47.279
I'm like, you're trying to please this guy.

1594
01:10:47.340 --> 01:10:48.539
What's wrong with this?

1595
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:51.239
Your magnificent.

1596
01:10:51.300 --> 01:10:52.319
Why you doing this?

1597
01:10:52.380 --> 01:10:55.739
And he's literally her being the best girlfriend ever. like

1598
01:10:55.739 --> 01:10:57.420
absolutely superb.

1599
01:10:57.539 --> 01:11:01.500
Like, you know, putting up with his shit, you know, getting

1600
01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:02.699
everything ready for him.

1601
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:04.140
Anyway, I don't want to bloat.

1602
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:07.619
If I was treated like that by Mark, something would be up.

1603
01:11:07.619 --> 01:11:11.579
If I didn't have to convince you. the beer, then you can get like

1604
01:11:11.579 --> 01:11:12.180
the beer thing.

1605
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:15.300
But when he yells at her later, I think that's relationship

1606
01:11:15.300 --> 01:11:16.079
ending.

1607
01:11:16.140 --> 01:11:17.399
Why does she come back after that?

1608
01:11:17.460 --> 01:11:19.140
Oh, he was possessed.

1609
01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:22.079
Like, fuck off. how he behaves under stress.

1610
01:11:22.140 --> 01:11:27.300
Oh, I just, the absolute, even worse than Alice, that bit where he

1611
01:11:27.300 --> 01:11:28.319
screams and shouts.

1612
01:11:28.380 --> 01:11:29.819
It's so bad.

1613
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:31.979
Like a...

1614
01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:33.659
Don't disappoint me, all right?

1615
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:34.079
Okay.

1616
01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:36.539
Do you keep an eye on no subtitles?

1617
01:11:36.899 --> 01:11:41.279
Because the bit in Alice where you go, no.

1618
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:43.199
It's just the best.

1619
01:11:43.260 --> 01:11:44.819
It's so funny.

1620
01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:46.380
All right.

1621
01:11:46.439 --> 01:11:47.579
Okay, come on.

1622
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:49.319
Let's do this before I fall down.

1623
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:52.500
And then I will fall down.

1624
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:59.699
Hey, Joe. Hi.