Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are, at my request, back on board Enterprise, the NX 01, and
it's Enterprise season one by your request, so I think you share
equal part of the blame here.
Oh, I think I might be, just proportionate amount of blame towards
me, actually, for this one, because I kept skipping over good
episodes to get to this.
Yes, so season one, episode 20 Oasis, 1st broadcast on the 3rd of
April 2002.
It is a story by Rick Berman, Brannan Braga, and Stephen Beck, who
also co-wrote Cold Front, which was one of the stories that we
skipped over last time.
God, then, if it was similar to this.
This is an astonishingly dull 45 minutes of television. isn't it?
So boring.
Normally, when I'm watching these episodes, right, and I'll
messaged you in the chat, all sort of positives, negatives.
There was just nothing.
Nothing I can say about this.
It's not even mid.
Mid would be something.
It's just nothing.
It's not threshold.
I can get angry about threshold.
Do you know what I mean?
I don't get angry about Star Trek, though.
But this is so boring.
It's unbelievable.
It's quite astonishing.
It's also very similar to, as you pointed out to me on the chat
very similar to DS9 shadow play.
So similar, in fact, that Renee, who guest stars in this, said to
Scott Bacula, you know, we did one a bit like this on DS9 once.
I think it's also worth mentioning as well as Shadow Play, the
Survivors from Star Trek, the Next Generation, which has a pretend
person after, you know, a lot of people are killed.
Future tents, which has that child alien who's left on a holiday.
Oh, that's a wonderful puzzle box episode.
Yeah, yeah, a really good one.
And then Sukal in Star Trek Discovery season 3, where that Kelpien
is left to fend for himself on a holodeck populated by, you know
strange creatures.
Those are all sort of conceptually similar.
But the way this is structured is literally how a shadow player is
structured.
They go to a planet and there's sort of weird stuff happening.
They investigate and then right at the climax, the rug pool is
that nobody else is real and just one person is real who created
the entire thing because of some terrible disaster.
It's literally beat for beat, the same thing, but in that one, you
have a wonderful guest actor playing the head of the colony, who's
a sort of irreverent, very jolly investigator, who has a great
relationship with Dax, and you have a beautiful relationship
between Odo and the little girl who's lost her mother.
And that's really sweet.
It's that sort of Pinocchio and the child sort of relationship.
That's really lovely to watch.
And there's a B plot and there's a C plot.
There's so much happening in shadow play.
Whereas this, it's just this dull plot.
Yeah.
Where we learn nothing about the main characters where all of the
guest characters are really boring, where there isn't a single
element of visual interest.
I was like, there's just nothing.
There's no substance to this.
It's really quite amazing.
We talked a little bit about this on strange new world, which is
an early episode of Enterprise season one, where they make a big
deal about the fact that we're going to visit another planet.
And I made the point that we'd actually already been to visit
another planet, maybe 580 times at that point.
And it wasn't really that thrilling for anyone.
And I think the same is true here.
This is Star Trek for people who found Voyager cerebral and
difficult to follow.
Yes, indeed.
And I think that's a deliberate thing that Berman and Braga are
doing.
Well, they're dumbing down.
Yeah, absolutely the dumbing down.
They're making the story simpler because they want to get a
broader audience.
And so that's why we re-center white men.
It's why we have baseball caps.
It's why we have, you know, blokiness and all of that sort of
thing.
It's why Scott Bacula can't think of a play to recommend. to that
guy in coach.
I think.
You'll find one.
You know, it is a deliberate dumbing down of the show in order to
make it more popular, and of course, it doesn't work.
It fails miserably and they have to try something else.
Or less embarrassing because they've stripped away the Star Trek
name as well, haven't they?
So they, you know, they wanted to sort of be an entity in its own
right.
You know, recently, I heard the wonderful, I can never get a name
quite right.
You know, from the good place, Jamil...
Jamil Jamil, isn't it?
Yeah, I can't remember.
Thank you.
I'll take that.
And she gave a wonderful interview where she's going, you know
they're dumping TV down.
She goes, it's a pool.
And she goes, I'll sit in these meetings and they say, no, we need
to make television that allows people to doom scroll while they're
watching.
Right?
And I was like, actually, I don't think that's true in all cases.
I think there are still sort of some prestige shows where you have
to think about what you're watching.
But I think if you take TV as a whole, then I think maybe it is
going that way.
There's a lot of sort of reality TV and stuff that you don't have
to focus on.
You can just sort of get the general beats of it, yeah?
Well, I'm here to tell you, Jamil, that this was starting in 2003
or whatever.
But this came out.
You don't need to focus on this episode at all.
You could be entirely on your phone and just look up whenever you
cut to the advert brakes.
I reckon you could perform a sort of major surgical operation
while it was on his background. still get the sort of general
beats of the plot.
It's really, really nothing.
So I do want to talk about the 2 main guest stars.
And one is obviously Renee as Ezra.
Ezro.
I mean, have you ever heard more of a space name than that?
I know, I know.
Well, there's a demand in the in the cold open.
And Annie Wershing is Liana.
Do you recognise her because we have done an episode with that
actor in it before?
No, please tell me.
She is the Borg queen in series 2 of Picard.
Oh my gosh, she's so great as the ball queen.
What happened?
She had something to work with.
This is what happened.
She's so bought bad.
She's not dressed up like a corpse in this.
So I suppose, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, she's incredible as the Borg queen, and you remember that
she died very young.
She had cancer.
I think when she was actually shooting Picard series 2 and she was
so enthusiastic about being in Star Trek and clearly now that we
look at it being in good Star Trek, she was so excited and so
enthusiastic and she was so superb, like one of the absolute
highlights of the season.
Was she as excited when she made this?
I think maybe not.
You never know.
There was no Instagram at the time.
No.
But yes, so I did want to shout out to her because I did think
that she was wonderful.
And like if I was inclined, no, no, no, in Picard season two.
I mean, like you said, though, it is the material, isn't it?
It isn't the performance.
Like, I mean, it's a pretty dull performance, but it's an
exceedingly dull character to play.
Yeah, yeah.
And I have to say that, like, I am not...
I kind of understand people who found something to enjoy in the
relationship between Tripp and Liana because I think that's
basically all that's here.
She's very boring.
And I think having her contrasted with Tapol, and we'll get there
in the actual thing, is actually...
The show comes off badly.
Do you know what I mean?
Preferring her to Paul, I think.
The only enjoyment I got from this episode and it's brief was to
Paul being a sassy bitch at times, coming in and sort of arching
her eyebrow and going, yeah, I know exactly what you're interested
in.
But even that's not, you know what I mean?
That's not a revelatory characterisation.
We have seen some pretty dismal. sort of one shot romances on an
entire Star Trek project.
May I remind you of the price, you know, that lecherous ambassador
or Odam from the host, or, I mean, Meridian.
Do you remember when they were getting sexy over the
technobabble?
I mean, we've, but none of them, none of those romances were as
lacking in actual chemistry or, I don't know, there's just no
there's nothing in the relationship.
There's no, there's no stakes to the relationship.
I was just like, why am I supposed to care about this pair at
all?
And it is, like, there's nothing beyond the fact that they're 2
pretty blonde heterosexual people.
Like, what else is there?
What else do they have in common?
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's nothing.
She's not funny or witty or, you know, there's no chase, there's
nothing there.
Like there's nothing about the relationship that's interesting.
And everyone that's talking about the relationship, talks about it
in such a measured way.
It's like, okay, so you can't even be able to argue about them
being in this relationship.
Yeah, oh, boy.
I kept thinking something's going to happen.
There's something will happen eventually in this episode that
sparks a signapse.
No, nothing.
Now, normally we talk for about 15 minutes before going into the
episode, but I am terrified that we were run out of things to say
if we do that.
We'll never run out of things to play.
Don't you worry.
All right.
I think we should go in.
I've brought my shopping list here in case we get desperate and
I'll just read you out of my groceries this week.
Yeah.
Okay.
Or we could tell people what we got up to whilst you was here, you
know, in England?
Yeah, okay, all right.
We should be fine.
That could be an education, guys, of what you're about to
experience. okay?
All right.
I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Establish dinner scene in archer's quarters.
Now, why are we having this dinner?
Oh god, he's so white.
That's the most white boy thing anyone has ever said.
I thought Cajun food was hot.
Kind of going, oh, really, that's too hot for you.
So, Renee should have said, you know, we had a carrot called
Tamara on Dick's Space 9 as well as this entire episode.
Look at this, look at this alien.
Oh my words. actually don't think that's too bad.
You know what that is?
Do you know that man is?
Who is it?
Well, I'm only guessing.
I think it's the guy who played Grayfon Tola in the Palm
Moonlight.
The voice is exactly the same.
Am I making that?
Because I haven't looked it up.
No, I don't know.
His name's Tom Bergeron, and I am about to click him.
It's Grayvonton, then I'm good with voices.
If it's not, then no, he shame.
In demons.
Demons?
What's that?
Demons.
He's a Corridonite ambassador in Enterprise.
He's used to the latex then.
Yeah, that's right.
Which is a good thing.
I'm not sure how to describe him right now.
What would you how would you describe this alien?
So he has a big tall head and he looks like he's covered in lechen
or something or like he's, it's, what's that thing, the, um, you
know, like when copper kind of corrodes?
Oh, I know what you mean.
But he's sort of got sort of the reptilian ears, hasn't he?
And the scale's going down the neck.
And then on his head, on his forehead, it's sort of like desert
sands that have cracked and dried.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's okay.
I think it's okay.
It's not a huge embarrassment, you know.
It's not, and it's it's the liveliest performance in the whole
thing.
It's a shame he's only in the 1st scene.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
So he's telling a ghost story, and this is what we're being
promised that they're going to travel, and, you know, there's
something a little bit, there's something here about that.
Do you know what I mean?
We could have gone somewhere about that.
If we'd learned a little bit more about what life was like on
Enterprise, you know, the way sometimes in Voyager series 2, we
get a sense of what life is like on the ship.
There's a little we've sort of edged towards that a little bit
here, but we never really get there.
And then, you know, the plot comes along and everyone thinks
that's so interesting that we spend all our time on that, even
though it's sort of terrible.
You know how sort of clickbassy TV is now, Nathan, right?
And now, like, you know, you have to sort of like grab people
immediately.
Otherwise, they're going to change the channel.
Could you imagine?
No, no, no, no, I'm not...
What I'm saying is, can you imagine starting an episode of
television now of people just sitting around the table having
dinner going, oh, this might be a ghost story this week.
I mean it just would never happen.
No, it's very relaxed and not in a good way.
The best part of the episode, obviously, is right now.
It's been when we can sing the song.
Yeah.
I did sing the song.
That's a hit.
Yes, I did.
Yeah, always do that.
It's the most fun I have.
Now, time is fun.
Yeah.
Like, I feel as if I visibly age when I listen to this song, you
know?
I'm 45, but I feel by the time I get to the end of it, I'm 55.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It definitely sort of Gen X, I think.
You say dad go.
I should become a dad by the time the song ends.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, Tapole is still in her phase, I think, where most of her
dialogue would benefit from having the words, you fucking idiot
appended to kind of every line.
I wonder if she ever should have come out of that phase.
I think she is surrounded by a lot of fucking idiots, I think.
That's true.
Oh, I was pleased though.
The pilot, whose name, as usual, I've gotten, because he's a
regular, and I really shouldn't forget their names.
Very pretty, may I ask?
He's very decorative at the front of the ship.
But I was very pleased that he went along with them, though, and
it was actually given something to do.
Yeah.
He gets to hold a phaser and everything.
This is before they give up on him and decide not to let him do
anything.
But, of course, we can't have him and Hoshi.
So she doesn't get very little stew in this episode.
Well, like I said, we're centring white men so as not to scare the
um, midwits in the audience that they, they're trying to appeal
to.
I just can't imagine ever pitching a Star Trek show to be less
inclusive.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't imagine anything that's sort of pushing against the
rodenberry ideal more than that. we get here.
Yeah, that's quite pretty.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, that's quite a good shot, isn't it?
Yeah, I quite like the sort of the the study clouds that are sort
of going past the moon there.
I remember a time, right, when we watched Scorpion, and you were
beracing David Livingstone for a general lack of atmosphere as
they walked around the ship.
Right, I'll present to you at Oasis, which they don't even have
any dry ice.
That's usually a given in this sort of thing.
So the last one of these that we watched, I'm guessing would be
context is for kings from discovery series one. which was somewhat
more atmospheric than this.
I mean, do you remember that spaceship that was torn apart in
hedge enemy?
I mean, imagine the atmosphere in that.
Do you remember?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
I mean, it's all coupled together with sets that we've seen
before.
Yeah, 100s of times.
And the only way they're trying to suggest in the atmosphere is
they've got this sort of grating in the ceiling and they've shown
a lot through it.
Every scene on board Deep Space 9 has.
It's like Jake's quarters.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not particularly.
It's not particularly scary.
I mean, I do question that as an aesthetic on space nine, but yes
I like that. one of the things I like.
And it's like we're doing this X-Files swing right where the whole
thing's supposed to be spotlit, but there's plenty of light in the
set that they don't actually need the spotlights.
And X-Files gets that right.
It's signature thing.
It's in the opening credits, isn't it?
You've got Scully and Mulder with torches.
But here it's really, really brightly and evenly lit in this
scene.
I mean, there's very funny moments where they layer.
Do you remember the funny bits later where Tapol is walking around
with the spotlight and she turns around and there's someone
standing there and then she turns around again and there's more
people standing there, but it's so brightly lit.
She could just see them in front of her.
At least in the haunting of deck 12.
Do you remember when Neelix was going around this spotlight?
It was dark.
Yeah.
So, uh, I don't know who this person is, but this is directed by
Jim's, Jim Charleston, and this is the only Star Trek ever direct
there's a reason for that.
They say they do space above and beyond or something.
You're never working for Paramount again, I'm afraid.
Of course.
I mean, like Jim, I'm going to say this for you.
You didn't have a great scripts to work with, but Jesus Christ
man.
These people working on this are experts in Star Trek now. should
know better than this.
I have to say, I thought to Paul's performance was pretty
lacklustre in this.
I thought Jolene was pretty lacklustre, and normally I think she's
good, and I think it's the character, like initially.
She's like a foil.
And so like that dialogue there where she talks about having it
never being scared.
Well, one that's not really how we understand Falcons, but kind of
whatever, but it just makes her more boring, you know, and she's
up against Tripp, who is being charming and funny.
Funny.
You go that far?
Well, he was being cute.
And I think that little bit of business where he talks about
nothing like a good scare and then points the torch up at his face
to light it from below is kind of cute, you know. hilarious Well
yeah, no, but it is Connor and he is sweet.
Do you know what I mean?
He's still charming in this very boring scene.
He's very pretty, you know, at this point.
Yeah, well, that's that's him.
Not entirely sure what happened, but at this point.
Oh my god.
That was supposed to be a scare.
Somebody's face was reflected.
And then the camera moves around very so.
It's not exactly a whip pan, isn't it?
Oh, your reflexes are slow, all right?
And, although, what do you have for points for under reflective
surface, though?
There was a reflection.
So, I'm thinking, like, maybe the 1st time is code of honour.
When do they 1st go on, not code of honour?
What's the, I can't remember now.
The season one, um, um, Klingon episode in Star Trek, The Next
Generation.
Remember when they go on board that shuttle that's breaking down
and Geordie's transmitting his visor things and stuff and
everything looks very weird?
Like there's a weirdness to that.
It's a kind of spaceship set that they never really do again.
Whereas here, this is just a spaceship set that we have now been
looking at for the last 21 years.
It is literally cannibalised from everything they've got in the
stores.
But like, do you know when we've talked about Strange New Worlds
right?
And how, you know, it's set pre-TOS.
But they're using it as an excuse to really go out and express
visually their imaginations and show you just incredible things
yeah?
They could have done this here.
The only thing that's holding them back is their imaginations.
I think.
Like, like, visually, obviously they can't do what they did on
Strange New Wells, but man, the lack of creativity here is
staggering.
Yeah.
So we've just ended the eponymous oasis, haven't we?
It's so cheap.
It looks like a B&Q garden centre, but worse.
Yeah, and here's Annie, Annie and Connor are meeting for the 1st
time.
And look at her.
She's just doing nothing.
What's she doing?
Well, she sort of got bog eyes.
Yeah, she's a boggle eyes.
Sounds like Kess.
If Conor Trinier turned up in my house, I'd be like, hello.
That's right That's it.
That's it.
Look at the leotards that all this whole colony are wearing.
Oh man, come on.
Is there any camel toe?
All the usual gap colours.
Yeah, it's really so...
I understand why yours is going for it.
Well, you're looking for Campbell, though, because it's so
boring.
My favourite of all of them is the, it is a contender for the
worst guest performance that we've seen so far in untitled Star
Trek.
The mother.
There is just no passion in her delivery whatsoever.
There she is.
Is she?
It's a miracle.
We all survived.
And we didn't, yeah.
And and then, like, we're introduced to Ezrael, who is Renee, and
he's Renee, so he's great, but he's really got nothing to do
here.
And I think the reason that these aliens look so boring is that
Michael Westmore had to tell the director that Renee said he would
cut him if he came near him with any, you know, big latex mask
after 7 fucking years.
It's like.
We're just going to put all rice crispies on your, my temple, but
otherwise you can fuck off, Michael.
Yeah.
Could I ask, what is Archer wearing?
I don't remember seeing these weird sort of these sort of jackets
they're wearing?
I actually quite like them.
I actually think that they're probably okay.
You know, like the way that the way that Strangely Worlds has the
you know, special costumes are when they go on location somewhere
you know.
I'll get you on for Christmas.
I quite like the zip going down.
That would be quite useful with a jacket, actually, down on the
breastplate.
No, I think they look good.
They look okay.
I have to say, though, and I can't believe I'm ever going to say
this.
The only poet that Redo made an impact for me in this, so boring
was his dialogue, was in the climax where he actually got to
genuinely MO for a little bit.
Well, I don't think we even see the climax.
That's the problem is that we don't see the decision that he has
to make.
Do you know what I mean?
One, the decision that he has to make is very boring.
And two, we don't even see it.
They can't even write it.
The funniest thing is, the culmination of this episode is Renee
giving one of the backstories that we usually mock on this
podcast.
That's the climax of the story.
Yeah, that's right.
A messenger speech.
Yeah.
Now I introduce her like this.
She doesn't talk.
Remember when we saw Tripp having that relationship with the
cogenitor.
Do you remember that?
That was really sweet.
And we were sort of rooting for the 2 of them and he was teaching
her things and it was, it was a really love.
There's just none of that here.
No, she warms up a little bit later. like, but I don't know why
they're introducing her like this. and I do think, well, maybe I
know.
I think that she's contrasted with Tapol, who's mouthy and
critical, and, and, you know, this is a much better girl, because
one, she's blonde.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I think that's really bad.
And I think she's blonde and she's not Maui.
She's a little bit more kind of, you know, she's quieter and more
demure.
And I think that's shockingly bad.
That's, that is literally boiling down women to such basic, yeah
yeah, yeah.
How insulting.
Oh, here's the mother.
Don't bother him, Liana.
Please.
The best bit is later on. where she has to try and say something
emotional and the poor woman.
I think she's just decided that everyone on Star Trek, you know
doesn't, they don't emote.
Yeah, they're all space people.
It's so weird.
But I just can't imagine anyone being on television, right?
Being an opportunity to act, choosing to act like that.
Well, she's not very good, I think, probably.
The only choice she has.
They have a budget, right?
They can afford actors.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, we have often said in 90s trek that it does live or
die, but a lot of the time on the strength of the guest
performances of the week.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so this, I think there's something wrong with Jolene's
makeup as well.
Why does she look like that?
It looks so weird.
There's something going on around her mouth or something and she's
got like a...
It looks like she's got both dogs, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
It's really off- putting looking.
And maybe it's just like how her makeup is earlier or something
and they go with something else eventually, but it does look
weird.
But she's being sad.
How we can make the contrast.
Nathan.
They both in a scene together.
That's right.
And so Jolene Jolene.
So Tapol is being mouthy and nasty or kind of critical and Liana's
bringing him food.
Do you know what I mean?
Like she went out and prepared food for him.
Like, it's so, it's so bad.
She goes, look, I brought you some food and it's a marrow on a
plate.
Oh, she cooks marrow.
No, she's cut up the things.
No, no, no, she's a marrow to serve the thing.
Oh, okay.
Like a stuffed pepper.
No, it's fancy.
She's probably fancy.
Oh, excuse me.
She's white.
It's inside there is the chopped up cubed marrow.
She cooked it though.
She did cook it.
Oh, we grow it in the air ponics bay, really?
Ah.
See, she's so great because...
Now when you know the twist.
When you know the twist, he goes, oh my god, it's amazing that you
managed to survive here.
It's so on the nose this time.
Yeah, yeah, it's really bad, isn't it?
It's so bad.
Why do I feel like it's feeding time at the zoo?
I mean, that would have been interesting had they all been a load
of cannibals?
Oh, no.
Do you know a lot of women?
I know, I know.
Nearly a third of it.
The crew is female.
And also, why is that?
Why did they?
why did they say that nearly a 3rd of the crew is female?
Nearly.
This is less than a third?
Less than a 3rd in 2151, because we don't have gender equality
because that might make some of the more pithecanthropoid fans
unhappy.
Do you know what I mean?
This is a big swerve to the right for Star Trek, I think. this
show.
Perfect, canprathoid.
What does that mean?
It's like, um, like, um, caveman.
Pray in the thighs of a planet.
I mean, this fella now, the is he the leader of the colony?
It's not Renee, is it?
this fella. captain or something?
Yeah, because Renee's an engineer.
So there is another guy there.
And we're supposed to recognise him, but he never says anything.
And he's the one who turns up in the escape pod later dead.
But because I think by the time he turns up, I had never heard him
speak, that whole cliffhanger didn't land at all.
Now I've seen him in the background in a few, like just then in
that scene there.
He's got dark hair.
Remember the guy?
And I was kind of going, who the hell's that?
And it's because for some reason they just forgotten to establish
who he is so that that would land.
Do you know what I mean?
It's just sort of basic stuff that they're not getting right.
I think I've said this to you before, but I'm going to say it
again because there's so little to talk about in this episode.
And that is the, like, when I watch a piece of television, yeah.
I just wait for the thing.
The thing that captures me and it doesn't have to be anything
massive.
It could be a line of dialogue where I go, okay, that's an
interesting idea or a character who's sympathetic or a moment of
direction that makes me pay attention or even a piece of music
that I go, 0 my god, that's really movie.
Just something to make that television worthy of existence.
I waited 45 minutes for the thing watching this.
Yes, it never comes.
And then it never comes.
No.
See, Annie's being a little bit charming but she really has
nothing to work with.
She has nothing to work with.
There's the cavernous distinction between this and the ball
queen.
It's like come on.
Do you remember that bit where she was crawling across the floor?
Just the top half of her.
It was so funny.
And when she was seducing Agnes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know.
It was amazing.
Just tremendous.
Yeah.
So he's a standing around talking scene.
It's all white men, just so you know who makes the decisions on
this ship.
I feel like it's Patrick Stewart. we need to thank, actually
because if he had no agreed to do Star Trek Picard, then our only
example of Annie would have been this episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so she would have just vanished into Star Trek obscurity.
Yeah.
Instead of being truly magnificent.
One of the great performances, one of the great villains in TV
Star Trek, I reckon.
I mean, I don't think that's the best season of Picard.
But there's great stuff in it.
Yeah, it's probably the best thing in it of all.
One of the things that I think that they got massively right was
those few episodes in series 2 where ice are the villain and, you
know, like they're just evil.
And now, of course, ice is, you know, running riot throughout
America, just picking people up at random and shooting people and
and, you know, just being truly horrendous, but Star Trek, Picard
predicts it in 2022.
Oh, God, look, the lift there.
With engineering.
That must be the same mechanism as the death. the same left.
They've kept the bare bones of the lift and then took this out.
We'll keep hold of that lift when they go.
Yeah, we might need it in the future.
Um, well, also, no phenomena, I mean, that episode set in the
alternative universe.
John Delancey actually hitting Patrick Stewart, Raffi and 7
flirting outrageously.
The gorgeous romance between what's the fellow's name?
Yeah, Rios.
And the doctor.
I mean, there were many, many strengths.
The worst thing about it was that that plot just could not sustain
a season.
No, no, no.
There were gyms.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, imagine a season built around this bunch. poor old Danny.
I was like, this is Billy who's kind of hot.
This is another one of these things where we get an extra who
weirdly doesn't say anything, any normal person would have said
hello or nice to meet you, but because Billy's not being paid to
do that, he just sort of grimaces and then walks on.
He gives her a mildly lecherous sort of look, but that's it, and
then walks off.
I suspect that he's more interested in Connor.
That's my guess.
He's got eyes, Nathan.
Yeah, he does.
Oh god, look, this is the everything that they wanted for Star
Trek Enterprise.
Three boring white men talking to each other in a gray room.
Let me go.
Burma's watching the Russians going.
We've got it.
Excuse me, could you just tone the music down a bit there
perfect.
Oh, this is so boring, isn't it?
What are they talking about?
Catastrophic malfunctions, massive depressurisation.
So they have instrument readings that suggest that the story that
they've been told about the crash of the ship isn't true.
And they would be right.
And they all discover it by just standing around talking about a
load of technobabble.
This is so boring.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we don't see anyone discover the thing.
Do you know what I mean?
Someone reports it, the discovery.
Like Malcolm says the oxidisation rate or something of the, you
know, the bulkheads or something means they've been down there for
22 years.
What's the most boring type of ice cream you can think of?
I'm not going to say vanilla because I think vanilla is great.
Oh, I like vanilla, especially in cream soda.
The proper, proper rich vanilla, not...
Which one do you think's the most boring?
Well, Rocky Road, obviously.
Oh, okay.
This is the wrong atrocity.
Star Trek this episode.
It will come up because, of course, vanilla ice cream and Rocky
Road both make an important contribution to the dialogue here to
this romance that is happening.
Oh, he's John Billingsley contractually appearing for a moment.
And then this guy who, guess what?
We've never fucking seen him before, and I thought that I must
have missed it.
I thought that I wasn't watching properly, and I was not going to
watch this again in a 2nd time.
It's Shillot.
I thought you recognised.
Shalad.
Oh, she lads.
Yeah, that's right.
But do you know what I mean?
It was in the crowd of everybody else, I'm sure.
He didn't get a line.
I don't think he got a line. doesn't get a thread.
Why did you do that?
Like, why don't you have the main guy?
The lead guy?
It's basic television language, right?
I know.
I have Renee.
He's out, no, because he's still alive.
But have one of the others have the wife.
Do you know what I mean?
Have the wife.
Imagine that.
It's like the wife.
Well, you know, I mean, I don't want to really stress this, but
Annie, right?
Like, she's the character we've seen the most.
Yeah, but again, because they're alive.
It can't be them.
It has to be, it has to be one of the others.
Here's the ice cream there.
Here's the vanilla ice cream.
That doesn't look like sort of quality Madagascan vanilla ice
cream.
No, it's not yellow on our, I think.
Yeah.
Do you know, having this coffee?
So this is about nothing.
Like, has no one, I don't know.
I think they're uncomfortable writing romance because it's girly
staff.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and they were all right with a zarellion or whatever, because
they were going to go on a boat and then touch rocks with each
other. remember that?
explaining to her the constituent ingredients of marshmallows.
What does this happen?
I know.
Although I do like when he says, I think that's actually cute.
He can't explain what marshmallows are.
He just goes, I don't really know what they are.
I think that's an acute.
And like, she's showing a bit of life here.
At least when Councillor Troy talked about her chocolate ice cream
right?
She was having an orgasm while I was talking about it.
I leave you 2 alone?
Yeah, it's wonderful.
It's so funny.
How long have you been on this planet?
God.
It's not even like a, it's not even like a tense conspiracy.
Do you remember Equinox?
when they were all sort of whispering behind the scenes, right?
pull our move in a minute.
Well, we haven't seen anyone.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they've been so unmenacing.
Like, it's so, like, like, it's not, they don't seem furtive.
Do you know what I mean?
Because and that wouldn't work because they don't know that
they're holograms or whatever, but like there's just nothing.
Like, there's nothing, the ghost story thing never panned out.
There was no atmosphere when we were in the thing.
We throw that away really quickly and now it's just boring space
people in corridors as usual.
You know, it's just, it's ridiculous.
Oh, with Shalot.
Can you tell me who Shallot is, please, honey.
We will see him now, but we and we only barely saw him before.
I just thought that must have been a cart scene.
I couldn't understand how they would do this. where she was like
the, the 1st moment, he's sort of being forceful with her and
demanding something.
She's like, she gives him a very fertive look and goes, please
take me home.
Like, sorry, we're not ready to give you the answers yet.
Yeah, please take me home.
We're only at the 20 minute mark.
And so this is the funny scene.
No, you'll be pleased to learn that we're at the 27 minute.
Oh, thank goodness.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think this is supposed to be the ghost moment.
You know, she's walking the ship and there's the man in front of
her and then suddenly there's more people passing.
Isn't that Shalott?
That's Shalott.
Oh, Shalott. so good to see you again.
We were worried.
We thought you were a desiccated corpse.
Oh, my God.
Do you like going to those costumes?
I went, God, it's like wearing a condom.
They look ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I think this moment is supposed to be tense.
Where they're surrounding her.
Because it's men surrounding her in the dark.
Well, I mean, that's supposed to be tense, right?
I suppose.
What is she discovered anyway?
She was just waving her torch around?
What has she discovered?
Like, they're just not doing the basics of making a TV program
into another unatmospheric, darkened room.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And she, that's right.
And she told has she told them?
No.
No, she's not told them.
It is that thing I'll tell you later.
You know, we're literally debating, right?
whether they're hiding things from us or not.
We're not even talking about the nuts and bolts.
That's the conversation here.
Are you hiding things from us, you know?
Well, we're getting it now.
We are getting it now, a beard, aren't we?
But we sort of figured out that they are, right?
Yeah, well, I mean, because we've watched television before.
Well, because we've watched Star Trek before.
We've seen Charlie.
And he's tall of a brain sale to watch this, do you?
No, no, no.
God, they're coming at them with guns now.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so boring.
Come on.
So, yes, all right.
And so the repairs are to the thing, that room that we were in
before that looked like, like it was repairing the computer room.
So anyone who knew any Star Trek would have guessed that that was
kind of running the, you know, it was optronic relays or something
that was running the holodeck theme.
I'm so bored.
Functionality of this dialogue.
He said, go back to your ship, not without my men.
This isn't a negotiation.
Oh, my God. so bad.
Actually, do you know what?
These actors, I can't blame them anymore.
How can you find passion in dialogue like that?
Now, have we been in here before?
Yeah, we have.
This room is so cheap.
Look at the walls.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's supposed to be the, it's supposed to be running the, um
the holodeck things or something.
I think Renee must have walked around this room and gone, you know
I recognise bits of this set from C Gervais R 558.
That bit over there, looks like it's from one little ship.
He's wasted in this, isn't he?
He's so wasted in it.
It's such a nothing episode.
And Joe, we always berate the fact that we can't see Renee's
face.
Now we can, and this is what he's given.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's actually really nice to see him out of makeup.
Do you know what I mean?
It is nice to see that.
And I don't know why they never found a way of doing it on the
show.
This is the scene between Liana and her mother.
Her wreck, dead mother.
She's picking the sort of cherry tomatoes and going, oh, darling.
You shouldn't have gone to their ship.
You think this is my fault?
I saw the way you looked at the engineer.
Are you sure you didn't say anything?
No, I didn't.
They'll be gone soon and everything will be fine again.
Goodbye.
I mean, what?
It's so bad, isn't it?
It's just atrociously bad.
And look how and he's trying to act through it.
Good for you, Annie.
Oh, God almighty.
So, I mean, even if they were wet performances, I could, that's
something. yeah.
Just like, oh.
Now we're going to more scenes of people just explaining things to
each other.
I mean, this is so boring.
Nathan, what's the most boring pizza you can think of?
No, I see, I like boring pizza.
Like, I'm a big fan of just, like, like, margarita.
Yeah, me too. pepperoni, did I?
This is the ham and pineapple or pizzas.
Yeah, I actually quite like Hammer.
Oh, you don't?
What is wrong with you?
It's the contrast between the Swede and the savoury, obviously.
I don't think I've ever seen Hammer Pineapple on a menu in Italy
you know.
No, I don't think he has.
They consider it an abomination, and they're right, but I secretly
like it.
Oh, well, now we've got rid of salad or whatever his name is, now
let's have sex.
I mean, are you going to do that?
It would be, I'd be very appreciative if there was some ham in
this episode, you know, and just a tiny bit of, you know, sweet
pineapple, but no, it's just, it's the pizza base, you know
without anything on it.
That's right.
I'm so desperate.
I'm doing food metaphors.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I just don't know what's happening here.
This dialogue again is so boring.
You know, do you think you could tell a lie so often that you come
to believe it?
It's just like, oh, okay.
Like, do they fuck?
I don't, do they?
No, no, no, they kiss.
I mean, that's usually different in Star Trek.
Actually, I think the scene where they say goodbye is actually
quite nice.
And I know that there's really nothing going on here and I'm a bit
of a sucker for the one episode of romance.
I kind of like it.
This is nothing.
There's no reason why these 2 people should hit it off except that
they're in the same part of the plot together.
They're both pretty. one episode romance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is not that, but I'm trying to find anything in it that I
think it's worthwhile.
And I did find myself a little bit charmed.
And I think Jamma did as well.
Like, I read Jammers review and like, I don't know what he was
thinking.
I think Bam is much better than these.
Bam is so much better than this.
Um, uh, uh, but, even this shootout.
Now, right.
There's just one shot.
I mean, this is series one.
They should be all passion firing at this point in terms of what
they're producing.
Yeah, yeah, but I don't think, like, I think they thought that
taking it back, stripping it back would let them get away with
doing simpler things.
Do you know what I mean?
and having it work.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
It's so weird though, isn't it?
When we get to four, they go in completely the other direction.
We're going to do 3 parters.
We're going to pack them full of substance.
We're going to drive Star Trek shit. like we're going to fill it
with Star Trek stuff, you know.
And just be ambitious with the production as much as we can.
Yeah.
I mean, if there's ever an argument for the same production team
going from one show to another, like this, of not doing that and
bringing in fresh people.
I think, and Price Series one is a good example of why you don't.
Yeah, well, I think, you know, like, like there's in Kurtzman Trek
you know, each show is shepherded by different people, do you know
what I mean?
Like, and there's they feel different from one another, I think.
But this we've just been doing this shit for so long since, you
know, TNG.
Annie has this weird look on her face when she looks at Tripp
right?
The same way sort of I look at people when I'm talking to them but
really need a pee.
You know, it's sort of like looking a little bit stressed out but
trying to pretend that you're not, you know?
Yeah.
And you see, is this supposed to be impressive?
You know, she pulls the plug on them and they disappear.
Like, she hasn't shielded them.
She's looking plug you've ever seen as well, isn't it?
Yeah.
Even the technology is boring.
Yep, yep.
The technology is very boring. tell us, tell us what's happened, so
we can end this.
Where now you are, I'll save you.
There's still 9 minutes to go.
I suppose some of that's the credits.
No, no, hey, let's go.
We're going to talk about, they're gone, captain, isn't it?
obvious?
Yes, we figured it out.
We saw it in shadow play.
And and again, like the the dilemma makes no sense.
Like, how can you possibly empathise with this dilemma?
Like he's kept her there.
And why didn't he go home?
Why?
Because he couldn't initially, and then what?
Like, and so we've just decided to just live there.
And oh, because they were our friends.
We loved them.
You know, they were, take a fucking, take the holodeck with you or
whatever.
I don't know, it just seems ridiculous, you know.
Oh, they...
If there was some metaphor?
Do you know what I mean?
Like if he was unable to let go of his wife, and so we were living
in this fantasy world where he was hanging on to a fake memory of
his wife because he loved her and couldn't bear that he'd been
responsible for her death, and that was something.
Yeah. but that was stunting her, you know, her ability to grow
up.
That was circumscribing her world and he has to choose between his
wife and her.
Do you know what I mean?
And she's real, but he can't let go of his grief.
And that's a plausible thing.
You know, that's, it takes you away from Doctor Who.
You know, it's a thing that you can do something about and that we
can relate to.
This is like, what sort of bullshit is he?
feel about this.
For that man, you lost his wife in the survivors.
And in shadow play, right?
It's a twofold thing.
One, it's introducing the length that the Dominion can go to
before we even meet the Dominion because they're responsible for
everyone dying in that before we even met them.
It's the 1st big sort of serious indication that they're a big
threat.
And the 2nd thing is we spent the whole episode getting close in
really likeable ways to those hologram characters.
And Odo Majesty is some passioned speech at the end of the old man
saying, no, you can't just switch it off.
You know, they're real to you, those people.
And they're real to me.
I've got a relationship with that little girl.
So turn the bloody thing back on and you're like, okay, yes, I can
feel something about this.
I can't feel anything about this.
Can I just say, though, that terrible speech that Renee just
gave?
His face was so interesting.
It's so animated.
And you just see, what the fuck were you doing for 7 years
slathering that thing on top of him?
Look how mobile and interesting.
He's such a good actor.
And this is shit.
Do you know what I mean?
But he's absolutely giving it his all.
You gave him great things, but you've covered him in latex.
I mean, I've often said, it's a testament to his actor that the
performance still shines through all the last sex.
But do you know what I mean?
Like, look at him.
He's so good.
Look in his eyes, though.
I think his eyes are his greatest weapon.
But I actually kind of like that slightly craggier face.
Do you know what I mean?
And he looks a little bit more lived in.
I mean, he's clearly older, you can tell.
He's older than most of the cast.
Do you know what, this as well?
I realised there's just not apart from trip, there's nothing for
the other regulars to do here.
Is that like beyond the investigation.
There's no character for any.
You know, the best DS9 episodes we've watched in the last sort of
4 seasons where I say, look, do you know what?
They all get their one scene, but it's a character moment every
time, you know?
There's nothing.
Spacula's in this scene, but I just don't know what he's doing.
So Travis talks about ghosts and he also tells a ghost story in
Strange New World.
And so maybe the boomers are kind of a bit weird and a little bit
kind of superstitious.
Do you know what I mean?
Because they're run with these space travel people.
They don't run with anything for him.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they just never go anywhere with any of that.
I don't, I guess the episode in season two, right?
Then after that, I don't think we get another Travis episode.
At all.
Shocking.
So they leave?
Do they leave?
So we're in space, but they leave with them.
And like I didn't quite get what was going on here.
And and like this is, I don't know what this scene is for.
What's this scene?
So he has to make a decision, but we kind of knew that that was
the choice, but we don't see him make the decision or something.
There is something very odd about how this is resolved.
Do you remember the last scene in Shadow Play?
Where that jolly investigator goes, well, I guess we'll all have
to get used to the fact that we're all holograms.
Yeah, drinking value.
And then Odo turns into the spinning top for the little girl.
It's wonderful.
What the hell is this in comparison?
Can I get you something?
Some tea.
I'm fine.
But again, look at his face.
Like, look at how animated he is, that smile, everything.
You know, the little bit of weariness, you know, like he's good.
Your engineer is a very plain spoken man.
That's one way of pushing it.
Oh, this just end already.
I have to say that I did like that line.
I may have been clutch, clutching at straws, but I did think that
sort of world-weary way that...
There we go.
We've got online for the episode.
There's much more than our little oasis.
Yeah.
I think if you ran an enterprise episode through an AI generator
to get a script, it might be this script.
To be the same.
There's such functionality in the dialogue.
Yeah, but there's, it's not about anything.
It's so boring.
It may not seem anything more than spare parts to you.
That ship down there.
I've lived there for 22 years for me.
It's my home.
We don't care.
Sorry, Renee, I love you, but we don't care.
But again, if it had been about his wife.
What if it had been about his wife?
He hasn't do you know what I mean?
Like his wife is down there.
Yeah?
How long is this scene?
There's still another 2 minutes to go.
We've watched it.
We've been watching this. none of this is new.
We know what the stakes are.
That was what the last scene was about.
Why do we have to have a scene?
I mean, a scene with Bacula and Aubergenoir together?
Do that.
Absolutely.
Do you know what I mean?
He's the lead of the show and let's see him acting alongside
Renee.
But, like, what?
Oh, just, you know.
This is Sam, what's his face?
Sam Beckett.
And Odo, for God's sake.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They should be riveting.
I'll tell you why it's gone through the Berman Braga generator.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Oh, and she's back.
Oh, they're all trying...
Now, look.
You really did try and stress, you know, in that interview with
the Enterprise crew long after, you know, the dust had settled on
the show that you had great plans for Enterprise, but I just can't
see it, mate. in series one.
Like you said your hands were tired, but you could still write
interesting stories.
You managed to do it every now and again on Voyager, and you
certainly managed it fairly frequently latter-day TNG.
He cannot blame the studio for this.
Do you know what I mean?
Because this is the sort of shit that, you know, like he's just
churning out in his sleep.
It's so boring.
And look, we're doing another ice cream thing.
Do you know what I mean?
She's trying to seem charming.
He's trying to be charming, but what are they being charming
about?
They've got a shared interest in fucking ice cream?
Are you serious?
Like, that's the best we can do?
Ice cream's great though.
It is really good.
Oh, come on.
These chaste kisses on Northeast Trek.
Yeah, that's an awful kiss too.
Like, there's no hands involved.
You know what I mean?
It's like they're leaning open towards one another.
I'll see you out there.
That's it, the end.
Oh, we never see her smile.
But again, you know, like and there we go.
That's that.
That's so boring.
Isn't that boring?
Why was he even in space before?
I don't even understand.
Do you know, absolutely not.
Actually, I'm gonna say something that might shock you now.
Yeah?
And that is that I question whether we ever should have gone out
into space.
If this is the sort of adventure, that we were going to have.
All right.
Now, I know down the line, we're going to have many fun, exciting
and cringy adventures, but I mean, I may have gone back to Earth
after this one.
I've got no, there ain't much out there, I'm afraid.
It's just boring.
I just can't believe how dull and unambitious it is.
But also just sort of how incompetent it is, like how it just
doesn't do the things that a TV episode needs to do.
It's just, it's really upsettingly bad.
But not in a fun way.
Even when Star Trek can be unambitious. and we've watched plenty
of those.
Yeah, there can still be a better passion in the dialogue or the
performances or the direction or just something.
Oh, Nathan, let's never think about Oasis again.
And you know what?
That isn't going to be hot.
I'll have forgotten it by the time I go to bed.
What did we just watch again?
you can say.
All right, it's the end of the episode.
And it's time for us to find out if we can find something better
to watch next time.
So to that end, I've ceded control of the Randomiser Joe, who has
chosen what series for us to watch.
I mean, I wasn't in control last time and I still feel responsible
stuffed it up.
It's a time off.
But like, I mean, be grateful for me, all right, because it means
down the line we don't have to watch whatever that was.
We just watched.
We did watch that instead of Cold Station 12. for generation.
That's right.
Well, I can promise you, no matter how bad, whatever I choose next
it'll be better than, nope, I still can't remember it.
And, you know, I hope to do this, right?
I'm going to be predictable because as you always take us to
Enterprise, I will always take us to Deep Space 9, I don't care.
I don't care.
Because I love it and I want to watch it again.
It's been about, it has been about 5 or 6 episodes since we last.
Probably two.
And we were together.
We was together last time, weren't we?
Yeah, Isra and the big gun.
Yep, that was pretty good.
Okay.
All right.
Well, hang on.
Let me, here we go.
Oh, it's one we've done.
Your random Star Trek, the Express 9 is season six, episode
seven.
You are cordially invited.
Oh wonderful.
Now, do you remember, do you remember the Martha character in
that?
Syrilla?
Yes. that's how you do it. as Maya, but she was pretty good.
Oh, you're right up Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode is, this is
directed by Renee, this one.
Oh, okay.
Season six, episode 11.
Waltz.
That's the one with Mad Ducart.
And, you know, Kira and Wayoon and DeMar are all in his head.
Oh, okay. do you think?
It's a 2 hand, huh?
It's the last appearance of the TNG season one studio planet.
Oh, really?
Okay.
They've learned to fill it with smoke and crazy lightning to make
it a bit more...
You sure it's the last appearance?
It's impossible to believe a whole year out.
They must have gone back to the TNG stock planet. literally, you
know, with the treadfall, sort of...
Well, I mean, it's more Kalamo and Avery Brooks, you know.
I mean, always worth watching, isn't it?
I think that could be good.
I seem to recall Alameo gets a speech that's about 2 minutes long
at the end of the episode.
Is it about a big ugly tree?
No, but it does culminate with him saying, I should have turned
their planet into a graveyard, the likes of which the galaxy has
never seen, which is the sort of dialogue.
I like a villain to have.
Absolutely.
And so that's him deciding to just be sort of crazy all out evil
from here on in, you know, like we thought for 2nd some humanity
had seeped in or something.
He's lost the owl, see?
So his mind has snapped.
It's after sacrifice of angels.
It opens where he's in prison, you know?
Okay, okay.
Oh, should we do it?
Should we go back to the Dominion?
Definitely do it.
Yeah, okay, for sure.
And plus, you'll get to see none of our visitor playing Evil
Phantom inside Dukat's head, laughing head off. maniacally at it.
Yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social
media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 4th of November 2025 and released
on the 7th of November.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9.
Waltz. once more.
All right.
I will kind of say, no, I haven't even got it.
Let me see.
Okay.
Ugh, Christ.
Normally I watch these twice.
Okay, here goes.
You don't need to.
No.
That could bring the tag, just that little exchange.
That would be great.
Just that.
All right, I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one.