WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:13:51

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back this week with an episode of Star Trek Voyager.

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It's season four, episode 16, Prey, and it's written by Brennan Braga, and directed by Alan Eastman, who you will know from Honour Among Thieves, Joe. Oh, that's very well directed, that episode.

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And relativity.

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So I watched Hunters because it's not quite part 2 of a two-parter, but it is the introduction of the Hirogen.

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And so we get hunters, we get prey.

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Then we get something else.

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What happens after that?

9
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I can't remember.

10
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There's one episode and then we get the killing game parts one and two.

11
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So the Hunters and Prey are introducing the big band, I think, for the big upcoming event episode towards the end of the season.

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And I thought hunters were so good.

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Like so good.

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Hunters is great, but the problem with it is, is the Hirogen is the most boring part of the episode.

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And that's what they run with for the next 3 episodes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So this was just sort of gently introducing the hirogen as a B plot to an excellent A plot.

18
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You introduce your new big part as a B plot alongside an episode that is about the premise of the show and then not run with the premise of the show.

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It's so good song.

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I kind of like it because the Hirogen actually get introduced in an earlier episode, don't they, the episode before where the array of satellites that enables some message in a bottle, isn't it?

22
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Oh, yeah, they're sort of on a screen just covered in static.

23
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They're not definable.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so we just introduced them super gradually.

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And so we have message in a bottle, then we have hunters, and then we have prey and prey means that the hierogen are kind of established, they're not coming out of nowhere.

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And I think prey is so well done.

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Like, it's a pretty standard Voyager, but I just thought it was so just thoroughly well done and so enjoyable that then they come back for the killing game and they're already a proper established big band.

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I think it's well done.

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There's something in the air in season four.

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We've got the awkward season 3 out of the way.

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You know, Jerry Taylor's handed the baton onto Brannenbraga and Rick Berman and they brought in 7 of nine, which has given the show a kick up the arse.

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Scorpion, which is the single highest rated Voyager episode that ever went out.

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So they managed to actually get a bit of attention at the start of the season, for all the right reasons, because they put out something good, um, and introduced something great.

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There's friction behind the scenes because Jerry Ryan has joined the show and Kate Mulgrew is not happy.

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And what I love about this is she's very happy to talk about this now, and she's very happy to talk about how she behaved and how she didn't give Jerry Ryan the help that she needed, and how Jerry Ryan admits that this was a really miserable time for her, that she was trying to do good work, and she wasn't welcomed into this family.

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There's always stressing what a family voyager is, you know, behind the scenes and in front of the camera.

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It's a family, as long as somebody young and pretty doesn't come along, you know.

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Yeah, and rock the boat a bit.

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I think, and it's just a suspicion, I think that Brannan is savvy enough to see what's happening, and he's like, we can put a bit of that in the show, actually, because there's a scene at the end of prey between Mulgrew and Ryan, and there's no acting required whatsoever. where they are literally, oh, but getting their claws out at each other.

41
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And Janeway's last line of as you were.

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It could basically be Mulgrew going, yeah, fuck you and walking off.

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I mean, it fucking sizzles in a way that Voyager rarely.

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The character interactions on Voyager rarely sizzle like this.

45
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But on another level...

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I just thought this had an urgency and a drive and some visual ambition to it. that, again, I don't think Voyager, like you look at the rest of the episodes this season, they're not sort of doing Predator.

47
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They're doing boring technobabble mysteries like they normally do.

48
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Next week we're doing, what is it, Nazis?

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Hello, hello in the holodeck.

50
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I know it's fun, but it is just boring normal Star Trek.

51
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I think it has a scale to it, though.

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I mean, it is a kind of, you know, like a late season 2 parter.

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And I do think that those tend to be pretty interesting and that they do kind of ramp things up.

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I mean, we've done the killing game.

55
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I think it could have been one though.

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That there's enough story for one in those 2 episodes.

57
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Yeah.

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But what I like about it is that the status quo has changed by the time the episode starts and that the hirogen have been made a big enough big bad to support that, to make that credible.

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It's not just the bomar have taken over and we've got to get the ship back.

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What a record of this, isn't it?

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Because they're introduced in a B plot.

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And then they get one episode where they're shown to be, you know, aggressive hunters and then we have a fun two-parter on the holiday with them.

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And then we never see them again.

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We never see them again.

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What is wrong with this show?

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I mean, I was watching this going, there's some potential here, right?

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They're visually interesting.

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You've brought in a great actor to play the lead Hirogen in this, Tony Todd, right?

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You clearly know you're onto something.

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Why then do you ditch it and go back to mystery of the week episodes?

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I don't get it.

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Why did DS9 learn this stuff?

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Learn, oh my god, Jeffrey Coombes is way in.

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He's amazing.

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Oh, whoops, we've killed him off.

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We'll turn him into a clone and we'll give him 2.5 seasons to dazzle us.

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Why is it DS9 can do that?

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And Voyager goes, we've done it.

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What's next?

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I think it's partly the premise, and I think at this point, you know, they realise that the Kazon thing was a bit ridiculous, you know, where they could be travelling home for kind of a season and a half, but Marge Carla could catch up with me.

81
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Yeah, don't make no sense, but it's a more interesting show that they show consequences.

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Sure.

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But what they're trying to do, I think, is, you know, trying new aliens out and they rarely work.

84
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But, like, that's a fun thing to try and do.

85
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I don't think that what they're deciding to do is the problem.

86
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I just think golf and they don't manage to pull it off.

87
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But here, I think they do manage to pull it off. really well.

88
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And they use the show's own mythology to help build up. hirogen.

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Well, that idea of bringing together 2 things they've established separately, Species 8472, and now the Hirogen and bringing them together, that is so not Star Trek Voyager.

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It's very refreshing.

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And it's cleverly done as well.

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This episode surprised me.

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I had seen it before, but not for decades.

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And the episode did actually manage to surprise me a couple of times and it doesn't end up where you think it's going to end up.

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I do have a couple of criticisms and I think there's one that is a very kind of Brannan Braga problem about the kind of ethical dilemma.

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Oh, it doesn't reach a conclusion at all.

97
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It doesn't need to do that, but it doesn't even say what the stakes are, I think, properly.

98
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But it is very Star Trek, to bring 8472 back and they're implacably evil.

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Remember, they're much, much eviler than the Borga.

100
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Well, until in the flesh, when they're not even anymore, and we're doing diplomacy with them in the shape of human beings.

101
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What?

102
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But here, here we have pity for them.

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Do you know what I mean?

104
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Like it's still a killer.

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It's still super dangerous, but it's vulnerable and we don't want to give it over to the Rogan to be killed and eviscerated.

106
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And like that's very Star Treky, I think.

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You know, like expanding your kind of moral horizons.

108
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You actually owe 8472 something morally.

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You, you need to treat them well.

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It's obligatory to do that, even though in other circumstances, you might have to use lethal force in self-defence against them.

111
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I thought that was pretty good.

112
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And that's properly Star Trek, but I don't think Braga has it in him to sell what the real issues are there.

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We'll talk about it later.

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I like, and I think it's a weakness, but I think it's a weakness that works that there's ambiguity to 7's reaction to it as well.

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We don't really land on why she objects so much.

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I mean, she says this because they are evil and all this.

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But like I was like, is she scared?

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Is she angry?

119
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Does she just not understand?

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Jane Way's morality.

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Like, we don't land on anything.

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And Jerry plays it in a way that any one of those readings could possibly be true.

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I quite like that.

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Oh yeah, no, no.

125
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But I do think the problem is that Janeway doesn't know why she has to why she has to rescue.

126
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Bran doesn't know.

127
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And so Janeway can't make a proper point.

128
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And so Jerry has nothing to react against.

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Like, if it was about compassion and if it was about what we owe to each other, then Seven's rebelling interestingly about something that's foundational to Star Trek.

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And that would be interesting.

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As it is, we just get a sort of petulant child.

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I'm growing up now and I'm not growing up the way you like.

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And so you're being mean to me.

134
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And so that's not as interesting as I reject the premise of your kind of moral reasoning, which is much scarier.

135
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And of course, it's never going to land.

136
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You know, it'll get mentioned next week and then we'll never talk of it again.

137
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They do explore that a bit, though.

138
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I think you're underselling that a little bit because the whole, I'm not becoming what you want me to become.

139
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Oh, I think that's really interesting because Janeway has a set of expectations.

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We've saved you and we've absorbed you into this crew and we expect you to behave in a certain way.

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And her reaction of, well, no, I didn't ask for this.

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You chose for me to be like this.

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And now you're expecting me to be who you want me to be and I like her pushing against that because we don't do any of that in Voyager at all.

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You know, we...

145
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It's in the premise.

146
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We could have done it with the McKee.

147
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A terrorist crew. episode 2 just went, well, I suppose we'll all be Starfleet then, you know.

148
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Just put the uniforms on then.

149
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I do like that.

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And I like the fact that 7 never really quite gets to be who Janeway wanted her to be because she's got her own mind and it's Jerry playing it.

151
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So of course, she's vivid and interesting and engaging in all kinds of ways.

152
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So there's stuff happening in this season.

153
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That's really interesting.

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I think we do abandon most of it come next year, but it's happening now, so we might as well enjoy it, you know?

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What do you think?

156
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Should we go in?

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Let's do it.

158
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Yes.

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Watch Kate and Jerry sizzle.

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All right. 5, 4, 32, one, and we're off.

161
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It's the bathroom story that always gets me, Nathan.

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When she needed her loan.

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She needed the low, Jerry.

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And Kate said, no, she's not getting out of that costume.

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You can hold it until the end of the scene.

166
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Oh wow.

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So here we have Tony Todd as the main hirogen. and one of the things...

168
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So Tony Todd is so good in this.

169
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And again, he's just an excellent guest star, and this is another Star Trek episode that relies on an excellent guest star.

170
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And his performance up against this other guy who is really shit. like really terrible.

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Also deliberate, right?

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Let's make him look really true.

173
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So Tony Todd.

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Like you said to me kind of earlier on in the chat, that he's absolutely refusing to play it like a space alien and he's playing it like per times.

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He's like, give me my weapon.

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He's awesome.

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He's really fun.

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Whereas the other guy is just doing space alien voice.

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Do you know what I mean?

180
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And space alien intonation.

181
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There's 2 in hunters. as well.

182
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They're just terrible.

183
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They've got and they've got this sort of filter over their voices that make them sound like Androids in Hunters because they're wearing the masks.

184
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Oh yes, of course.

185
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So there's no performance at all, whereas you don't get Tony Todd in and say, don't give a performance.

186
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Yeah, yeah.

187
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He did say that the these were kind of the most challenging prestige. stroke fat gun, the same way I stroke my dildos, look.

188
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Oh, my God.

189
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Oh my god.

190
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That's eye watering.

191
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Look at the size of that garden.

192
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Oh, I was getting worried here, you know, when they were sort of painting his hair thing and they were bringing in the sort of Native American drums.

193
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I was like, no, don't do that.

194
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Please don't do that.

195
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It's that specialist who's back again from series two.

196
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Oh no, don't do that.

197
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See, I loved all of this.

198
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Now, do you remember the episode with the dinosaur people?

199
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in series three.

200
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You know, the...

201
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Yeah, and the whole of the opening pre-title sequence is just from their point of view, finding Hogan or something.

202
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Hogan in a tunnel and then a basic planet.

203
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They find Voyager at the end of the pre-time.

204
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Well, this is doing something similar.

205
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I think Braga wrote that one as well, you know.

206
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I like this.

207
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Yeah, what I think is really super interesting is this is, um, like it's introducing the Hirogen and we are, it's their point of view, isn't it?

208
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So it's the Hirogen's point of view.

209
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And so you put them up against Species 8472.

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And you know how I say it's at the end of the teaser that you find out what the episode's about.

211
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I think this episode lies to you and makes you think that it's going to be about a thing when it doesn't end up being about that thing.

212
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And it's not entirely clear initially who's going to come out on top out of Species 8472 and the Hirogen.

213
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There's no Voyager at all in the pre-toll sequence.

214
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No, it makes me think I'm going to watch an episode of Star Trek Herogen.

215
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

216
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But it so it looks like they're scarier than the herogen.

217
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I mean, the hierogen are scarier than 8472.

218
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:45.240
And while that ends up being true at the end of the episode, doesn't it?

219
00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:49.200
It's because this is a kill, do you know what I mean?

220
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:55.379
Like they've effortlessly beaten the 8472, but that ends up not being what has happened.

221
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.480
And so when we come back, it's still alive.

222
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:00.659
I'm going to stop making these comparisons, I promise.

223
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:07.740
But that sort of close-up on Tony Todd there, where he sort of puffed his chest out and went, a flawless kill.

224
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.919
It's sort of the way I do, you know, when I'll satisfy someone great.

225
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.139
That was, yeah, a great shag.

226
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:20.100
It was just not playing the alpha male at all in this.

227
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:21.539
He refuses to do it.

228
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.179
He goes, no, I'm going to make this character a bit more interesting.

229
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:32.039
I mean, did you notice, you know, all the extra fronds and moss there that they put in stockcave set number 62?

230
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:33.179
number one.

231
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:33.779
Yeah.

232
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:36.539
And it was really well lit as well for ones.

233
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.519
It almost looked like it was outside.

234
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:40.620
Yeah, yeah, with their sky.

235
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:50.700
Like they had, you know, like they didn't, it wasn't just inside the sort of cave, it looked like they were doing this against a cliff and you could see the sky and it looked good because it was well lit.

236
00:16:50.820 --> 00:17:02.879
It's the something I have noticed, you know, covering Voyager on the entire Star Trek project is that very often, you know, when we don't do Star Trek Voyager, it's a lot more interesting than when they do.

237
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:07.980
So distant origin, this, we go to the future.

238
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:09.180
Yeah, it's true.

239
00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:13.440
When we go to the past in, um, oh, God, what's the one?

240
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:14.640
You know, when they do the voyage home.

241
00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:15.960
You know, they're on the beach.

242
00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:17.579
I don't know.

243
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:18.420
Friendship one.

244
00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:23.339
Oh, Futures End. non-sequitur.

245
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:24.240
Oh, futures end.

246
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:25.319
Oh, that's awesome, my love.

247
00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:28.500
This is another good one where we go to Earth and it's not doing Voyager.

248
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.900
See, every time they avoid doing Voyager is great.

249
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:37.740
Yeah, but it is going to be Voyager now, and it's going to be pretty good Voyager, I have to say.

250
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.759
Yes, I agree.

251
00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:40.319
I love this.

252
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:43.380
Seven learning bedside manner via the doctor.

253
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.539
See, now this is something.

254
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.180
This is something that they realised worked.

255
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.019
And then they go, right, we're going to do someone to watch over me.

256
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:57.960
A nice gentle comedy where the doctor teaches 7 how to have a romantic liaison.

257
00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.819
So they can't do it.

258
00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:00.839
They can learn.

259
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.619
In fact, this is kind of sweet, isn't it?

260
00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:06.779
Because she rejects the premise of it.

261
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:23.400
It's actually really fun because now you've got the doctor who is kind of brash and obnoxious and hasn't properly mastered how to, you know, interact with people in a kind of gentle and thoughtful way, trying to teach 7 how to do that when she's even worse than him at it.

262
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.200
And it's delightful.

263
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:26.759
Like Tess used to help me with this one.

264
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:30.299
Now I'm going to train you, you know, like I think that's adorable.

265
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:31.799
And this is so funny.

266
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:38.039
And and just the moment at which 7 loses her shit with this is so good.

267
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:41.640
But then she's only in front of compliments about the doctor.

268
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.039
She's like, I'm not reading this bullshit.

269
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:53.099
When she goes out of the room saying, have a nice day, it's almost like I'm done with this crap.

270
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.339
No, I actually think I didn't read it that way.

271
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.140
She says this lesson is terminated.

272
00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:01.200
And he goes, yeah, yeah.

273
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:03.539
I know, but look, no, no, it softens.

274
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:03.960
You look.

275
00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:09.480
Yeah, because she, it softens them. think that she's conceding.

276
00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.119
Like she's actually trying to be nice.

277
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.819
And like it's that moment of connection.

278
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:23.700
I think it's really, really well considered, and it is that thing where we're thinking about the premises of the 2 characters and how they work together as well as how the 2 performers work together.

279
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.559
He has softened a bit, though.

280
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:27.539
Go back and watch those series, one episode.

281
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.259
Like, you know, he's like, he's now giving a performance.

282
00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:33.660
Back then he was basically a robot for a season.

283
00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:36.539
Bridge banter for beginning.

284
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.519
It's the worst thing ever.

285
00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:40.140
Bradon should read that.

286
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.920
But look, she turns around and stops and says has a pleasant day.

287
00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:46.859
And I think she means it and he takes it that way.

288
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:47.579
And I think that's nice.

289
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:54.960
You know, she's rejected the idea, but not completely. the start of someone to watch over me, whereas teaching her all about how babies are born.

290
00:19:55.019 --> 00:20:02.099
He's like, the drama of the womb, the worms come flying in and she's like, oh, why are we doing it?

291
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:06.299
I think they realise that that's the best double out they've got on the show.

292
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:11.160
And they keep giving Jerry and Robert things to do for the rest of the series.

293
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:14.519
Well, I think Jennifer and Robert were great together too.

294
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:16.619
Like, I mean, it's Robert.

295
00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:17.099
He's great.

296
00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:18.180
It's better, yo.

297
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:21.240
Jennifer, isn't she?

298
00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:21.900
Oh, for sure.

299
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:22.859
Yeah, yeah, no question.

300
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:33.180
And it's just because as well, because 7 is such an acerbic character, for some reason, when you're in comedy and you're the most serious person, it's so funny.

301
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:40.920
I just think the way she's taller than him as well, you know, which is the opposite of Jennifer too. you know, like...

302
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.819
Let's not remember, this is the character that went up to Harry Kim and went, you may now remove your clothes.

303
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.319
We are going to have sex.

304
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:49.019
We've still got a bit of that here, don't we?

305
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:53.400
Oh, no, it was in last week's episode in Hunter where we're still talking about that.

306
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:01.319
What really surprised me about this episode was some of the execution?

307
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:03.480
I think when they're doing the action.

308
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:08.220
Yeah, we've gone around bloody starship corridors chasing monsters.

309
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:09.359
We've done it so much.

310
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:11.819
DSI, TNG, TOS.

311
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:18.900
There was a bit of visual dynamism to this, I thought at times.

312
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.460
They turn the lights down.

313
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:22.619
They turn the oxygen off at one point.

314
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:23.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

315
00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.640
That was a wonderful bit where Chewbox suddenly started flying.

316
00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:27.779
I was like, what's happening?

317
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.460
Yeah, for a change.

318
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:30.240
Well, that's right.

319
00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:35.700
We complain about Star Trek, the Next Generation, never, ever does anyone put on a spacesuit.

320
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.259
And now we, that's a thing that we routinely do.

321
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:47.940
One thing that I missed there is that 7 comes onto the bridge to challenge Janeway early in the episode, but it's about something different, isn't it?

322
00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:50.039
It's about going to rescue the pilot.

323
00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:58.740
Um, and Janeway does say that it's about compassion, and then later on, she says, and now we know more about them.

324
00:21:58.799 --> 00:21:59.880
Do you know what I mean?

325
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:01.140
Now we know more about them.

326
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.880
And so it was worth doing.

327
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:13.200
So that's some attempt, I think, to kind of like enumerate or kind of elucidate on what Starfleet's ideals are.

328
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.180
I want to think it was sad.

329
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.819
I love the scale of the Hirosion sets.

330
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.420
I love the hanging skulls that come leering at the camera.

331
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:29.039
I love the bubbling vats of 13 different species that they put in the acid to turn into food.

332
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.500
Look at the smoke.

333
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:37.259
I don't know, there's just a scale and an atmosphere to it.

334
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:43.680
I mean, it's still the same old bits of set joined together at the end.

335
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:48.359
It's not a hugely different look, but some more effort has gone into it.

336
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:54.960
And I think, you know, being able to amortise these sets over 2 episodes and maybe more.

337
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:56.220
Maybe we go back to it.

338
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:57.720
But I think that's what helps.

339
00:22:57.779 --> 00:22:58.920
That's what it means.

340
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:03.000
I think Alanis and helps as well, though, because that scene started with them beaming in.

341
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:12.420
And then he went up to, he took the camera up to look at the ceiling, to see how high it was, and then he turned the camera around and you could see how long the set was.

342
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:19.920
Like, I don't think the directors always get the best out of what they've got on Star Trek Roger.

343
00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.920
Do you remember collective and all that yellow lighting in the bullshit?

344
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:30.299
In fact, I had a little horrible PTSD flashback to it at the beginning of that shard where we had that yellow lining again.

345
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:34.619
Oh, we just missed a bit where Tom Paris kicks that ball that's behind him now.

346
00:23:34.619 --> 00:23:40.380
And it's clearly supposed to be a huge iron ball, but unfortunately, it's a very hollow egg.

347
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.019
Yeah, I love his reaction to this.

348
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:43.680
What?

349
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:44.279
It's a head.

350
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.559
That's pretty funny.

351
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:50.940
So you're right.

352
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.059
Like, visually, it's not so different from what we've seen before.

353
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:56.940
I just think how it's shot and lit.

354
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:58.019
They did.

355
00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:59.579
They're just using what they've got well.

356
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:00.839
I think so.

357
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.400
That was quite impressed.

358
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:05.700
This is not at all where we expected to be.

359
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:10.559
Do you remember we had a flawless kill at the end of the opening and now they're dead.

360
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:11.940
Do you know what I mean?

361
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.700
And clearly the 8472 has survived.

362
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:15.720
I think that's great.

363
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:19.259
It was a proper twist that I just didn't expect at all.

364
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.160
What happens when one implacable phone meets another implacable phone?

365
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:25.680
Someone's going to win and it wasn't the hirogen.

366
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:29.759
No, but I mean, well, it was eventually though, wasn't it?

367
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:31.319
It's just a bit where you sit.

368
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:31.680
No.

369
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:36.119
Oh, my boy, the bit where you see Species 8472 climbing over the hull of Voyager.

370
00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:36.960
I love that shot.

371
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:38.279
Yeah.

372
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.460
It was like, I wonder where it went.

373
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:46.500
And then we're just cut to the outside of the ship and it's just walking over the side of the ship.

374
00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:47.880
I love this bit too.

375
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:48.779
Do you know what I mean?

376
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:53.940
Like they start to detect things happening to the outside and they don't know what they are.

377
00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:00.359
And, you know, like things are happening like, um, you know, there's decompression in the Harland, various things happen.

378
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.480
They're so...

379
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:05.700
Dialogue is so pony.

380
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:10.140
It's basically the one page synopsis of a hirogen.

381
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:17.759
And because sort of Hunter's introduced us visually to the idea of the Hirogen, and because we're going to have fun next week with the two-parter.

382
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:22.380
This is the only time now we've got to give you all the exposition about what they're about.

383
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.180
So Chakotay does it all in one.

384
00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:28.200
Well, we go so far as we can tell, they're hunters, they go around looking for other species.

385
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:33.359
They put people in vats and turn them into food, you know, it's like, thank you. we've got everything we need.

386
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:33.779
Let's go.

387
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:35.220
We kind of saw that.

388
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:36.900
I reckon the best thing.

389
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:42.119
I reckon the best thing is because, like, didn't, yeah, then we saw that last week.

390
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:43.740
Didn't we say that last week?

391
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:47.039
like 90s trek to show us something and then explain it afterwards.

392
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:48.359
Yeah, that's right.

393
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:53.160
But I think the like wolves thing is maybe the best explanation.

394
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:54.299
That's a great line.

395
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:56.160
Who was hunting the hunters?

396
00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:57.000
Hunters.

397
00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:58.740
Yeah, and that's where we see it.

398
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:00.839
No, that's not bad.

399
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:05.400
They've got the shadow of the creature on the hull of the ship as well. really long shadow as well.

400
00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:09.000
And we go around it, so... fucking awkward.

401
00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:12.839
I think that's a nice effect shot, though, for the time.

402
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:13.500
Yeah, yeah.

403
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:20.880
On the memory alpha page, the guy geeks out about how excited he was about animating it, which I think is delightful, bless him.

404
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:25.019
No, because I do think it is pretty great.

405
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:30.000
I think it's more of a problem when they're trying to put it in against people and sets.

406
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:32.819
But when it's just a visual effect. looks pretty good.

407
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:41.759
They do have Tony Todd fighting the Hirogen in a scene, fighting it hand to hand in this episode.

408
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:48.119
Keep an eye out for it because it's pretty impressive when you think about what they were able to do back then.

409
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:52.259
More impressive than just animating a complete, you know, like model shots.

410
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:54.539
More impressive than his shitty costume.

411
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:56.940
I mean, it's so lightweight, that costume.

412
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:03.660
You can tell that it's trying to look like a big bulky warrior, but you can see that material was lightweight.

413
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:04.680
Yeah.

414
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:06.480
I mean, I don't mind it.

415
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:09.420
It's different. and the colours are good.

416
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:10.019
I don't know.

417
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:13.140
Look at the look in Tony Tot's eyes.

418
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:13.559
Yes.

419
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:14.400
Yeah, yeah.

420
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:15.240
Hello, captain.

421
00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:18.059
I think I could be quite comfortable here, you know.

422
00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:21.900
He's so great.

423
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:27.839
But I also like just how much taller he is than her and how tall they make all of them.

424
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:30.299
And it's not just by casting tall actors.

425
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.539
They do it by, you know, the way they're shot.

426
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:39.119
I think Kate has just had a yearly haircut, you know, it's very short in this episode.

427
00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:40.319
It is.

428
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:41.940
I don't mind it in this episode.

429
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:49.740
I'm not a big fan, as I said before, of the late Voyager, American lady hair that Jane Mayer.

430
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:50.579
Oh, I love that.

431
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.019
The sort of Scully cut, yeah.

432
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:58.500
Yeah, no, you see, I like a, um, like with the French curl or with the ponytail much better.

433
00:27:58.559 --> 00:27:59.940
I think they're much nicer looks.

434
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.279
Oh, look, Chakotay will be the same.

435
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:03.119
Is he going to do anything?

436
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:06.059
No, he's just pressing some buns.

437
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:10.140
I like the fact in Voyager, you know, it's sort of the reverse fact of enterprise.

438
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.799
In Enterprise, we're always berating the fact that you've got lovely Linda Park there.

439
00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:19.380
She's got nothing to do In Voyager, all the women get loads to do, and it's Robert Beltran, who doesn't get anything to do.

440
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.019
That's a much better way of running a Star Trek show.

441
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.180
Yeah.

442
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:29.519
You know, the way he's leaning into her right now on the bridge.

443
00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:34.680
This shot exactly like this, that scene where he went, you know, you're fiddling with your combatge again.

444
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:37.740
You know, I mean, you're going to make a tough choice, Captain.

445
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.160
I actually quite like this scene.

446
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:41.940
Do you know what I mean?

447
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:47.039
And this is Chakotay operating as planned, giving her the chance to explain what she wants to do.

448
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:50.400
Um, and it, like, she's super relaxed.

449
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:52.259
Techna bubble on the screen, though.

450
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.539
There doesn't seem to be much actual dialogue.

451
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.059
No, but this is the weird stuff.

452
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:57.839
This is new.

453
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:58.920
Do you know what I mean?

454
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:00.779
Like Jeffrey's tube has collapsed.

455
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.359
The plasma network is going down.

456
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:11.160
Something's happening on deck 11 and we don't know what it is, and that's the 8472 getting on board the ship, which I think is pretty good.

457
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:13.500
I don't know why she was saying Harry.

458
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:15.900
If they know it's 8472 they're going after.

459
00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:17.160
The last time he faced them.

460
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:19.200
All those tubes coming out of his nose.

461
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.660
There's only 7 people on the ship.

462
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:22.380
What are you going to do?

463
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:23.099
It's true.

464
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:24.059
Yeah what is this?

465
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:25.259
This resitude, right?

466
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:25.980
Is that for me?

467
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:27.480
Yeah, yeah.

468
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:34.200
Because I think you're getting an alien, an alien music queue at this point.

469
00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:37.200
Like I think it's referencing the music from Alien.

470
00:29:37.259 --> 00:29:43.799
Uh, you remember the alien sort of, its blood goes through several bulkheads in in the 1st film.

471
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:46.799
And I think that we reference that here.

472
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:48.839
You couldn't call it for me, though, could they?

473
00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:50.640
They called it polyphasic fluids.

474
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.319
I think they called it blood.

475
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.640
I think it's blood.

476
00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:55.500
Yeah, but it's not red or anything.

477
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:56.519
It just looks like that.

478
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:57.359
Did you see that there?

479
00:29:57.420 --> 00:29:59.819
He realised how boring these scenes on the bridge are.

480
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:03.420
Sorry, he did a bit of how and how camera work as he went toward...

481
00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:12.059
But again, here, as you know, Bob, Beltran, it used to be impervious to our scanners.

482
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:20.339
Yeah, so like it's just managed to get in the ship and we've seen what it does to the Hirogen who were very scary in the opener.

483
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.380
And so I think that's kind of...

484
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:29.460
This is when I knew it was going to be great, Nathan, because look, Janeway walked off the bridge with a gun. 7 came up to Bellana with a gun.

485
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:30.539
Oh, way to big gun.

486
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:31.319
Oh here we go.

487
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.579
B'lana's got her ridiculous pregnancy thing on.

488
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.319
Oh, looking at...

489
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:38.519
You're getting a bump.

490
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:39.299
Bless her.

491
00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:40.079
She's showing.

492
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:41.579
Good for you, I'll say.

493
00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.859
Still waking up until the last day.

494
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.339
Yeah.

495
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:47.099
Species 8471 was...

496
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:50.220
Getting onto the edge of the warp core and jumped on Balana Torres.

497
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.079
Yeah, that's a great shot.

498
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:54.720
That's one thing that does know, right?

499
00:30:54.900 --> 00:31:01.200
One thing that Brenner knows to do is to sort of give you moments like that.

500
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:06.480
And you look at his scripts, you know, he's the one that gave us the smiley face and the warp core, remember?

501
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:07.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

502
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:13.079
And that's a great, that was, it wasn't that into the, into the adverts, then?

503
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:15.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

504
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.079
It was a great cliffhanger.

505
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:17.039
Brilliant, awesome.

506
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:18.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, really properly good.

507
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.819
And this is really, like, things are happening here.

508
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:21.660
Do you know what I mean?

509
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:24.900
It's like... with a pair of phases.

510
00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:26.700
But they're running.

511
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:28.019
There's things going in the background.

512
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:32.160
There's lots of extras, the camera's moving, you know, like it's a pretty dynamic scene, I think.

513
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:42.359
I mean, I think I could have got behind this episode where if it was just about the Hirogan hunt on Voyager with April 72, but you add in the Janeway 7 stuff.

514
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:45.000
Oh, God, it crackles.

515
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:46.799
Yeah, I think so too.

516
00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:53.279
Again, they make it about characters and it's it's people butting heads. you know, on either side.

517
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:56.460
It's 8472 versus the Hirogen and Janeway versus seven.

518
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.680
You see Kate going ahead there down the corridor.

519
00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:00.000
She like, I'm not waiting for Jerry.

520
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:01.019
You keep up, all right?

521
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.119
Jerry's doing great clenched teeth and holding one of those dumb phases.

522
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:08.460
Oh, pointing at things.

523
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:12.720
They've had to take Bilana out of the action because we don't deal with her character anymore.

524
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:15.180
We can't have too many strong women in Voyager.

525
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.940
Yeah, Roxanne's pregnant as well, I guess.

526
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.380
Like, I don't know.

527
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.380
Excuse me, but when Nana was pregnant.

528
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.839
They had a kicking the shit out of people with the baby showing.

529
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:26.579
That's true with the baby showing.

530
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.259
Yeah, that was really fun. was a wonderful moment.

531
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:33.660
She did that. throw punches, you know.

532
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.220
Oh, yeah, yeah.

533
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:40.440
That's one of the great things about Giorgio is, you know, like a 50 something woman kicking men in the head.

534
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.299
Yeah, like you want that.

535
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:48.660
But everyone on Voyager is so short because you don't want anyone towering over Kate.

536
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.920
Do you know what I mean?

537
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:51.539
Chakotay's quite short.

538
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:58.140
And then seeing Tony Todd there amongst all these short ass people on the, like in Sickfay is pretty funny.

539
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.779
He says, you know, lower the force field.

540
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.700
And I will continue the hunt.

541
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.059
The same sort of way I would say, you know, come out with me.

542
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:07.680
I'll take you on a date, you know?

543
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:12.539
But I think he's got just a very rich deep voice.

544
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.579
Like I'm pigeonable, right?

545
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.460
Because you remember how much she broke her heart in the visitor.

546
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.740
Oh, boy, oh, boy.

547
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:21.000
But he's always good.

548
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:25.319
I mean, he was a, he was a, um, gem Hadar as well, wasn't he?

549
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:29.039
He was definitely Kern, wasn't he?

550
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:29.759
Worf's brother.

551
00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:30.960
He was Kern.

552
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:32.700
He might have been a Geminar at some point.

553
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:34.259
He played 4 or 5 roles.

554
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:38.099
And every time they, you know, they gave him more to do because...

555
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:39.000
Yeah, he's really good.

556
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:40.680
He's really good.

557
00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:42.240
He's a movie actor, for God's sakes.

558
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:43.440
I don't attract them all the time.

559
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.160
Yes, you see, I like this too.

560
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:59.940
They're scary, and they were definitely our enemy last week, but she's trying to negotiate with them, and I guess, you know, the 7 sees this.

561
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.779
Do you know what I mean?

562
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:02.160
Like it's, this is the problem.

563
00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:04.140
I don't see what 7's reacting against.

564
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.279
Here we go.

565
00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:10.019
This is where the gravity goes and suddenly he starts flying, Tuvok.

566
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:11.760
Oh, that's great.

567
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.440
Yeah, yeah.

568
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:16.619
That, I mean, that was probably my biggest surprise in the episode.

569
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.079
They don't usually do things like this in boys.

570
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:19.380
No.

571
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:20.099
No.

572
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:21.719
Yeah.

573
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:24.960
Well, he's trying to basically make the ship.

574
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:32.820
Um, it's a really difficult place in order for them to hunt down April 72 now. you know, they're trying to make it as tough as possible.

575
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:42.239
But also, I think just 8472 is epically evil and challenging and so it's able to turn the ship against them.

576
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.360
Like it pretty quickly masters the environment.

577
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:52.860
Um, and, you know, is kind of formidable and that's what you think the episode is going to go.

578
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:53.820
Do you know what I mean?

579
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.000
That we're sidling up to the hirogen.

580
00:34:57.059 --> 00:35:00.659
We're negotiating with them and all of that sort of thing and we're going to help them.

581
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:03.900
I used to think these space suits were so impressive.

582
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.239
Now I've seen the strange new world ones.

583
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.519
They just look like form plastic. don't they?

584
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.500
And yeah, look, see, look how short.

585
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.780
Look how short the medium robin is.

586
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:19.860
I mean, I know Tony Todd's tall.

587
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:26.940
You know when you really sort of fancy someone, yeah. and you're like, 0 my god, you know, I think there might be a bit of hope.

588
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.739
I'm really going to sort of try and pursue you.

589
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.179
That's exactly how Tony told to play in going after A472 in this.

590
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:33.960
You know?

591
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:36.780
I've been tracking him for some time, you know.

592
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.300
I think I understand all of his behaviours.

593
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:43.079
It's predatory, you know, very strange. 500 metres away.

594
00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:51.179
I can't wait for him to just be like the bog standard Klingon and he just never did it.

595
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:58.739
Yeah, there's a huge sort of centre of gravity, isn't there, for aliens to behave like Klingons.

596
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.480
It's kind of the standard Star Trek.

597
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:01.980
Oh, look how shitty that is.

598
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:08.280
Like, they're just doing heel taps to indicate that the, the, the, the, the, the, the...

599
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:10.440
Yeah, that's it.

600
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.039
Foley it.

601
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:11.579
Absolutely.

602
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:13.800
So the foley and some shitty acting.

603
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:17.699
What it is doing is it's taken a few lessons from the X-Files here.

604
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.760
If we spotlight some scenes, we've got a bit of visual drama.

605
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:22.800
Bravo Voyager.

606
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:28.199
So these are the ones from 1st contact, which are just lying around, aren't they?

607
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:30.539
This is great licing, Nathan.

608
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:32.219
This is really well known, yeah, same.

609
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:36.900
And shot from below with the red light, the sort of submarine lighting of the walls.

610
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.920
Yeah.

611
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:40.260
Yeah, I think it's really good.

612
00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:45.900
I always worry about teaming up 7 and Tuvok.

613
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:46.980
Why?

614
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:52.559
Just because they speak, they both speak into stupid space ways.

615
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:54.840
Don't contract any words.

616
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.239
It's just a little bit happy.

617
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:05.639
It's why you have to... deliver and the doctor because he's got a lot of personality or chew locks for Neelix for the same reason.

618
00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:06.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

619
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:08.340
That's exactly right, because they're opposites.

620
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.980
They did it last week, too, in Hunters, didn't they?

621
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:14.159
They sent 7 and 2 Vok off in the shuttle.

622
00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:16.860
No, did they have lots of space dialogue, the pair of them?

623
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:27.000
The trouble is, of course, they needed to get rid of 7 and Tuvok because all the people on the ship were getting letters from their families, you know?

624
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:28.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

625
00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:36.239
Oh, no, Tuvok has a really moving scene, I think, with Neelix, a delightful scene with Neelix.

626
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:40.500
Every scene in Hunters, is just brilliant character into players.

627
00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:44.400
Janeway finds out that her other half's moved on.

628
00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:47.940
Yeah, that's unbelievably good.

629
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.500
It wasn't just the acting, though.

630
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:57.300
It's when she tells Medium Robert about it in a scene that I think is really nice and maybe opens the door for another relationship between them.

631
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:04.920
I mean, it's an easy way out of the show's core premise, but the bit where they learn about the marquee being destroyed by the dominion.

632
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.380
And the mention of the Dominion in Voyager.

633
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.119
Yeah, amazing. amazing.

634
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.039
Oh, look at this floating pad.

635
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:13.980
That's quite fun.

636
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:19.500
How do we suggest that there's no gravity when we can't do it for spacious?

637
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.539
We'll just have a floating pads, you know?

638
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.719
There's no other equipment anywhere, just one pad.

639
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.280
No, that's right.

640
00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:26.880
That's right.

641
00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:30.179
They don't have CGI blood like they did in Star Trek.

642
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:32.880
They destroyed 1000000s of drones, 1000s of worlds.

643
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:33.300
Right.

644
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:36.000
So we're seeing the scale of what 8472 have done.

645
00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:36.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

646
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:38.039
Well, no, we're not seeing it at all.

647
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:38.940
We're hearing about it.

648
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:39.960
Yeah, about it.

649
00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:42.480
But they, and that.

650
00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:46.440
So that is a motivator, isn't it?

651
00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:48.840
That's motivating 7's decision at the end.

652
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:51.780
Look, they're doing Star Trek 6 now as well.

653
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:52.559
Floating blood.

654
00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:53.519
Oh, there you go.

655
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:54.119
There is blood.

656
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:55.500
There is flirting blood.

657
00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:58.260
How do we know he's been down here?

658
00:38:58.320 --> 00:38:59.579
Oh, there's some blood floating.

659
00:38:59.639 --> 00:38:59.880
Okay.

660
00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:01.739
That's very handy.

661
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.579
Yeah, so yeah.

662
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:12.360
Yeah, so Seven's decision is also because of, like, they have to sell that.

663
00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:18.780
They have to make 7 clearly aware of how destructive 8472 were to the Borg, I guess.

664
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:21.480
There's just something every couple of minutes, right?

665
00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:23.940
You had the gravity going off and Shuvok floating.

666
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.280
You had the blood flying in the air there.

667
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:29.820
You had Species April 72 climbing on the hull of the ship.

668
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:34.079
Every couple of minutes, it's sort of pushing it along in a dynamic way.

669
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:39.000
I think I think Bragger can absolutely structure these sorts of scripts.

670
00:39:39.059 --> 00:39:40.559
Yeah, I think he can too.

671
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:42.539
I mean, I think he's really good.

672
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:44.400
And, you know, he was high concept guy.

673
00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:47.940
Wasn't he in late TNG, like timey, weird stuff.

674
00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:54.000
As much as I ripped that ridiculous amphibian Troy in Genesis.

675
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:55.380
Every couple of minutes.

676
00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:58.860
It was given us something weird to look at, wasn't he?

677
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.000
Yep, yep.

678
00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:02.039
What if Barclay was a spider?

679
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.320
Oh, that'd be quite good. put that in.

680
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:06.420
What if Worf was a Neanderthal?

681
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:07.920
Yeah.

682
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:15.480
But, but he, he, um, you know, like he, he's high concept guy. this isn't particularly high concept.

683
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:21.239
It's just 2 aliens hunting each other through, you know, the voyager corridors, but you're right.

684
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:27.179
He's just able to make things happen every so often, like and sustain some kind of pace.

685
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:29.519
Jukebox, that's a delix.

686
00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:32.699
I'd like you to exchange your spatula for a plasma rifle.

687
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.219
And New York is like, what's the true point?

688
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:35.940
What are you talking about?

689
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:43.380
This is Neelix's contractual obligation scene, but it's quite fun.

690
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:47.940
Yeah, I mean, I think the 2 of them are great together.

691
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.500
They really are great.

692
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:54.239
I think, though, because there was a pushback against the 2 of them, Merleon.

693
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:59.039
They didn't focus on it as much as perhaps they could have, which is a shame.

694
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:02.760
I think rises a bad episode for the 2 of them too.

695
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:03.900
Yes.

696
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.000
Rice is a bad episode in general.

697
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:06.719
Yeah.

698
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.780
Yeah, I like the idea, but yes, it is.

699
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:14.699
That's that's an example where a guest guest stars can come in and absolutely sabotage an episode.

700
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.380
They're all so boring.

701
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:20.820
I don't think even Tony Todd could salvage that one, though, if I'm honest.

702
00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:29.760
So that is an interesting scene, but it gets interrupted, doesn't it, by some stock footage from Scorpion Part 2.

703
00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:35.400
Look how much they've learned from the West Wing here, all this sort of tracking shots talking and walking.

704
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.179
I do love it.

705
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.659
You've got a decent amount of corridor to do it in.

706
00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:40.980
We've just run out of corridors.

707
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:47.099
That's usually sort of the only dynamism we get in a 90s trek episode is people talking and walking, but we'll take it.

708
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:51.780
I mean, there's a bit of that here, but there's also just sort of fun, interesting things happening.

709
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:55.800
Jesus, the look that Kate just gave Jerry.

710
00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.659
I think there may have been a rock bottom during this episode, you know.

711
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.360
Kate, when are you going to get into character?

712
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:06.900
do you mean?

713
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:11.159
But like that's a moment, isn't it?

714
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:14.460
Like, she realises what they're doing.

715
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:15.900
It's not hunting them.

716
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:25.320
She realises before Tuvok does the telepathic contact thing that he just wants to escape, that it's sick of being hunted and it wants to escape.

717
00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:29.880
And I do like these flashbacks to them attacking the ball and things like that.

718
00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:31.500
It just gives it a bit of scale.

719
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.320
And they were unbelievably great visuals.

720
00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:38.039
Like, they were so striking. dun, dun, dun.

721
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.500
Absolutely. good.

722
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.559
Yeah, we had a lot of fun with Scorpion.

723
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:45.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:46.440
It's terrible in lots of ways.

725
00:42:46.500 --> 00:43:00.539
But, um, but it's an epic and this, uh, using that imagery and using the 8472 again makes it a bit bit epic and it makes a hirogen epic too, I think. by comparison.

726
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.480
See, I wonder if this was a DS9 episode, yeah.

727
00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:08.760
It would be less the running round with guns hunting the thing down.

728
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:12.659
Less the sort of action adventure and more the moral debate.

729
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:17.519
And you would have those well-defined characters on DS9 and everybody would have an opinion.

730
00:43:17.579 --> 00:43:19.920
No, it's done terrible things.

731
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.059
We can't send it home.

732
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.119
Yes, you know, we're Starfleet. what we do.

733
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:28.019
It would be much more, much more intelligent, I think.

734
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.739
Yeah.

735
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:34.679
Well, I think part of the, I think the problem is, like, this is doing action adventure, and that's fine, and I think it does it really well.

736
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:37.260
This is an enjoyable Star Trek episode, I think.

737
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:43.139
But, and it, like, they're trying to make us feel pity for it, but it looks so ridiculous.

738
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:46.739
Um, it's, that's a bit of a hard ask.

739
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:50.460
But, you know, Kate is absolutely selling it, isn't she?

740
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.920
with the reaction shot that we just saw.

741
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.519
The camera angles in this are terrific.

742
00:43:56.579 --> 00:43:57.900
Did you see them?

743
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:05.099
When she came in, it was shot from below with the 2 guys with the rifles. and she just walked between them looking badass as hell.

744
00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:18.780
But, and like here where he's isolated and impotent, you know, like he's behind the force field in Sick Bay and he can't do anything and he's small suddenly, like against a big background, whereas before he was always looming.

745
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.039
See how small he is?

746
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:23.039
Janeway's bigger than him in the 2 shot there.

747
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:28.860
I don't think she realises this, but when Jerry is brought in.

748
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.760
There's more gristle in Kate's performance.

749
00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:36.360
She gets a bit angrier and a bit more forethought.

750
00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:46.800
You watch her in one to 3 and there is a, there's more sensitivity in her performance and she suddenly becomes a bit more kick-ass from series 4 onwards, but I do.

751
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:50.039
I mean, I love a kick ass woman, especially when it's Kate Mulgrew.

752
00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:51.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

753
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:59.880
But I also think that there is like, I thought that she felt, she looked stricken at the, at the plight of 8472 and properly sold that.

754
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:06.719
Now we're going to get, so 7 of 9, they need 7 of 9's help to get at home.

755
00:45:06.780 --> 00:45:10.079
And so that's, you know, that, which is great.

756
00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:11.039
Do you know what I mean?

757
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:14.340
Like give her, that's how you give her the choice.

758
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:18.179
You know, and and Janeway just orders her an overrun.

759
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:21.239
Unfortunately, instead of Janeway just saying, you know what?

760
00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:22.619
This is what we do.

761
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:23.400
This is what we're about.

762
00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:34.739
She gives some half ass backstory now about some mission that she went on and the most thing I was most proud of was the thing I pushed against in the mission, you know, what are you talking about?

763
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.780
It's unbelievably bad.

764
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:41.039
So they're being attacked by Cardassians, right?

765
00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:48.840
And there's one Cardassian who's horribly injured and is not armed, and they hear him, and they go and rescue him.

766
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:58.800
And like, it's kind of like, and I felt so good about not committing a war crime that day, and that's really all that she can come up with.

767
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:07.139
Like, it's not that that this thing is like us and it's scared and it's not trying to hurt anyone.

768
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:11.880
And maybe in some other circumstance, we'd have to defend ourselves against it.

769
00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:14.219
But it's not like us.

770
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:17.460
This is their only language, though, at the moment, isn't it?

771
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:19.559
is to give these terrible backstories.

772
00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:20.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

773
00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:22.920
To try and inform the decisions that they're making.

774
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:28.260
Instead of just saying, you know, yeah, this is who we are, this is what we do, this is what we should do.

775
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:29.579
Yes.

776
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.880
I think Kurtzman Trek is more direct about that stuff.

777
00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:33.719
Yeah.

778
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:37.500
And that's one of the things that I really appreciate about Kurtzman Trek.

779
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.019
I don't think Braga is sold by that stuff.

780
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:45.539
Like he'd much, you know, because Janeway spends most of her time fighting aliens in the Delta Quadrant.

781
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:52.260
She doesn't often make alliances, but, you know, the aliens are always rotters and they're always intransient and stuff.

782
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:59.519
And, you know, she rarely gets to find aliens that she can make alliances with and then she's gone.

783
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:01.619
There are plenty.

784
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:03.119
She just never chooses to do it.

785
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.619
Yeah.

786
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:05.159
Yeah.

787
00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:07.079
Well, she does this, the trade.

788
00:47:07.139 --> 00:47:10.619
Did we take the Mickey out of the big ugly tree for nothing?

789
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:12.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

790
00:47:12.300 --> 00:47:13.500
What did we learn nothing?

791
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:16.739
Is the night we saved that man's life?

792
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:18.000
So she's got nothing.

793
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:18.960
Do you know what I mean?

794
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:22.739
act of compassion, she says. you know, please.

795
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:25.019
Like, and it made her feel good.

796
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:27.599
Like that's what that's the reason for doing it.

797
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:28.980
Did she say that?

798
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:33.719
you are attempting to justify your present position with some bullshit backstory.

799
00:47:33.780 --> 00:47:36.059
Jack Wait goes, yes, I am.

800
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:36.480
Exactly.

801
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.380
Yeah.

802
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.619
No, and then she goes, no, if you're not going to listen to that.

803
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.599
I'm telling you as your captain, I'm in charge.

804
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:43.679
Go and do it anyway.

805
00:47:43.739 --> 00:48:00.599
But she can't articulate what the issue is and that's really, really important because what would have been good is if she'd said that stuff about compassion and about identifying with 8472 and, you know, wanting to help it ends at suffering and stuff.

806
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:02.159
And it was going to leave.

807
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.440
It wasn't going to stay here and destroy things.

808
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:05.519
It was going to go away.

809
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:08.099
Hello, Nathan.

810
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:12.239
She goes, unless and compassion won't do me any good if I'm dead.

811
00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:17.219
At least, at least they've got one character that is pushing against the cliches.

812
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:18.900
Yeah, which I do appreciate.

813
00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:33.420
No, but, but the problem is that, that she is rebelling against something as limp and dismal as Janeway's reasoning behind why you would be nice to 8472.

814
00:48:33.539 --> 00:48:35.219
Passion for a Cardassian.

815
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:36.659
It makes you feel better.

816
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:37.920
Do you know what I mean?

817
00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:38.940
That's why we do it.

818
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.300
It makes us feel better about ourselves and that's pathetic.

819
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:44.519
I want 7 to say that she's scared.

820
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.400
Species 8472 terrify me because of what I saw them do to the Borg.

821
00:48:50.460 --> 00:49:06.420
And yeah, what she actually says is you're making tactically unsound decisions, but I think I think that making her visibly scared is a mistake at this point, and she's already said what destruction they're capable of.

822
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:10.800
And so all of this pushing back is 7's way of being scared.

823
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:12.659
This is how she's scared.

824
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:13.800
She's not going to tremble.

825
00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:15.000
She's not going to bite her nails.

826
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:16.139
She is not going to say I'm scared.

827
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:21.179
She's going to say, this is very dangerous and I refuse to participate in it, and I think that's pretty good.

828
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.960
When they get there, though, and they allow her to say things like, I'm scared.

829
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:27.420
Yeah, Jerry's so fun yet. so well.

830
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:32.039
Do you know, Alan Eastman did something very good there.

831
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:35.159
He didn't cut away from the scene when 7 walks out.

832
00:49:35.219 --> 00:49:46.019
He then went to K and had her blink back tears. that she was so angry and frustrated and and you actually got to see an emotional reaction without dialogue.

833
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:48.900
It was only half a second, but I appreciate it.

834
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.239
I think they give that to Kate all the time.

835
00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:54.659
I actually thought it was just Kate being, oh, fuck this shit again.

836
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:59.460
Like, I just thought that was probably, that was probably Kate a little bit more than it was Catherine.

837
00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:04.199
She's like, you know, I can't work with this actress, all right?

838
00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:04.559
Okay.

839
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:06.360
That's right, she's fortunate.

840
00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:09.960
Would you please give me one shot to show just how frustrated I am this season?

841
00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:16.380
What I really appreciate, though, is that Kate does get there.

842
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:23.699
And what's sad is when she does, which is, I think, well, series 6, that's when Jerry's dating Brandon Bragger at that point.

843
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.980
So the game's like, fuck us.

844
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:26.880
I still need a job.

845
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:35.579
I better get on with her. is that they start doing less interesting things with Seven's character at that point, which is frustrating, but here we go.

846
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.460
Look at it towering over the doctor.

847
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:41.400
I mean, not that you see it.

848
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.440
You just see that the doctor...

849
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.000
Oh, well done.

850
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:45.960
Alan Eastman.

851
00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:48.179
Oh my God, surrounded by ships.

852
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.059
We've done the typical, you know, lasers firing about the place.

853
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.820
It's it's really fun.

854
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:54.900
It is really great.

855
00:50:54.960 --> 00:51:00.539
Yeah, and I do like that she's refused, but then she obeys immediately.

856
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.599
So it's not, no, I'm just going to sulk.

857
00:51:03.659 --> 00:51:09.780
You know, like she will contribute, but she is refusing to cooperate with this particular decision.

858
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:20.039
If I don't think that the arguments are well sculpted or robust enough or even make much sense, I just do like the tension, though.

859
00:51:20.099 --> 00:51:20.639
I do too.

860
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:29.219
And I think they act it really well, even if even if the substance isn't there in the dialogue, the pair of them act the frustration and the anger, you will.

861
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.860
And we just don't get that on Voyager.

862
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:32.699
No.

863
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:38.699
And I think that it's resolved a little bit too easily because, you know, resolved in this one.

864
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:47.639
No, so it does get a mention next week, but then it's the killing game and then all... revolved because they're playing different people next week.

865
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:48.719
Yeah.

866
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:50.099
Yeah, no, not next week.

867
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.500
There's another episode before the killing game, I think.

868
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:53.280
Is there?

869
00:51:53.340 --> 00:51:54.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

870
00:51:55.019 --> 00:51:55.980
I can't remember what it is.

871
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:57.179
Oh, another Hirogen episode.

872
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.679
No, no, no.

873
00:51:58.739 --> 00:52:01.500
It's not a Hirogen episode, and then the Hirogen appeared.

874
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:04.380
Like, give them a weakness or something like that is it?

875
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.059
No, I can't remember.

876
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:07.380
I can't remember.

877
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.059
Oh my god, did you see that?

878
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.679
What was it?

879
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:21.780
Tony Todd just shot that extra in the back and he did the worst fall you're ever gonna see. and decided to slide down the wall because he wasn't going to fall on the floor.

880
00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:27.360
It was really not as good as seal those doors, woman.

881
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.099
Pretty bad.

882
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:30.420
She's amazing.

883
00:52:32.940 --> 00:52:35.099
Oh, look at him now.

884
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.260
I've seen that look a 1000 times.

885
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:38.820
Stand aside.

886
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:41.219
Yeah, yeah.

887
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:42.179
Oh my god.

888
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:46.260
There's even subtitles for 8472 snarling fiercely.

889
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:51.239
But so we're about we watch some.

890
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.019
They're fighting.

891
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:55.079
Yeah, it doesn't quite work, does it?

892
00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:56.400
I think there's more.

893
00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:05.219
There is more of it, but it is a proper attempt to, you know, like um, integrate them into the environment.

894
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:13.679
Look, I mean, look, when, sort of, Tony, if you could just get on the floor and you're wrestling with a CGI dinosaur right now, okay?

895
00:53:13.739 --> 00:53:15.239
that works okay.

896
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:26.460
It's only a very short shot before they beam out, but it is him wrestling and integrated into that scene. and that's not something that they really properly attempted before.

897
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:27.599
I thought that was worth doing.

898
00:53:27.659 --> 00:53:29.760
And it is a bit of a set piece.

899
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:31.199
Like it's a little bit of a challenge, I think.

900
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:35.880
You know the whole thing with 7 making the decision at the end and Janeway being furious about that.

901
00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:37.559
They do do that in DSA.

902
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:39.059
I don't know if you remember the reckoning.

903
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:51.480
And the end of that episode is the par rafe in in Jake and the profit in Kira fighting on the promenade sort of this celestial battle. very cheaply done on the promenade case.

904
00:53:51.599 --> 00:54:01.559
But the dramatic conceit is that Kai Wynn comes in and makes the choice that Cisco couldn't and saves Jake and says, no, I'm not going to let this happen.

905
00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:05.639
So she stops the prophet from killing the par wraith.

906
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:10.440
And then it has huge consequences for the next season because the par race is still there.

907
00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:16.500
So, you know, some shows can do this stuff and there are genuine consequences later.

908
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.719
Yeah, no, this doesn't really want to do that.

909
00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:22.500
By the way, I did look it up and you're right, it is VR V.

910
00:54:22.619 --> 00:54:25.260
Oh, it's a Tom Paris episode next week.

911
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:28.320
We can promise it won't be as exciting as this one.

912
00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:30.659
That was a beautiful shot, you know.

913
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:32.099
It was on cherry and the thing.

914
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:36.659
It came round and Kate was just standing in silhouette in the doorway. really good, isn't it?

915
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:42.659
And even just the way the camera follows Janeway, she walks away from 7 while she's in the alcove.

916
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:47.280
I really thought this was beautifully acted this scene between the 2 of them.

917
00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:52.260
And because because we can't reach any kind of a conclusion.

918
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:59.039
Like, she's basically saying, I need you, but I'm stripping you of everything I possibly can to punish you.

919
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:01.440
And then you think that's it.

920
00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:04.920
And then 7 comes in, doesn't she, at the last minute with a riposte.

921
00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:07.860
Yeah, yeah. yep.

922
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:09.300
Like, I think it's good.

923
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:10.559
I do think it's good.

924
00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:12.780
And I do like the, you know, like I'm not here to debate it.

925
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:15.300
I'm just telling you what the consequences are and that's great.

926
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:18.420
You know, um, you've got something here.

927
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:19.739
Why didn't you keep doing this?

928
00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:20.940
Yeah, yeah.

929
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:22.139
Yeah.

930
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:27.840
Again, the show can't quite sustain this because they're just not being episodic.

931
00:55:27.900 --> 00:55:39.840
I mean, remember that that ridiculous Paris is a mutineer kind of Paris is being a prick thing from series 2, is it series 2, in order to flush out our villain or whatever?

932
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:42.480
It reminds me, do you know what it reminds me of?

933
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:43.739
The end of that episode.

934
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:47.159
Do you remember when Odo betrays Kira when the Dominion are on the station?

935
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:53.340
And then Kira comes steaming down the corridor and says to him, you know, we are way past. sorry.

936
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:54.900
Yeah, yeah.

937
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.639
And but again, they deal with the consequences.

938
00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:00.179
Yeah.

939
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.280
It's just a different show, isn't it?

940
00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:03.900
It's a show that doesn't do it.

941
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.500
It is a shame.

942
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:06.300
But yes, it's this repost.

943
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:18.960
It is, it would be more interesting if we knew what she was rebelling again. said he's played or written as if she's a teenager. you know, like I'm growing up into something that you don't want me to grow into.

944
00:56:19.019 --> 00:56:20.760
No, I do too.

945
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:21.840
The idea of that.

946
00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:25.500
I do too, because it happens to people. you know what I mean?

947
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:29.159
Whose teenage children grow up into something they don't want them to be, you know?

948
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:36.480
And they really lean into and, you know, she's a woman, so they lean into the fact that Janeway's the mother here and she's the child.

949
00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:37.440
Yeah.

950
00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:39.900
And like Janeway, this lands.

951
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:40.860
Do you know what I mean?

952
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:43.500
Like, look at look at Kate's reaction to this stuff.

953
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.739
But the way she delivers that line as you were.

954
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:49.320
She goes, and she walks.

955
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:50.340
That's right.

956
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:53.280
It's just, I'm not engaging with this, but I think it hits.

957
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:55.079
I think she plays it.

958
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:57.900
If she looked at me like that, I would wither.

959
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.280
Jesus Christ.

960
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.900
K-Ochral, you are fucking terrifying, right?

961
00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:04.860
You want to be.

962
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:05.880
So good.

963
00:57:05.940 --> 00:57:06.539
So good.

964
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.300
That was a really good episode, I think.

965
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:10.500
I think it was really fun.

966
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:21.599
I know it didn't quite get there with the reasoning in the debate, but as an episode of Voyager as an action adventure, I thought it was really exciting.

967
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.960
As a Hirogan episode, it told us something about, oh, it told us a lot about them in all that exposition.

968
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.900
Oh, the next episode has started.

969
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:31.800
It looks very boring.

970
00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:35.940
Oh, Tom Barris.

971
00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:43.739
As a as a Janeway 7 episode, though, in this sort of continuing story they're doing for out four.

972
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:45.420
It sort of stops in five.

973
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:52.860
But in four, it's, you know, she starts for as a Borg drone and she ends for, what is it, hope and fear?

974
00:57:52.920 --> 00:58:01.079
Yeah, which is a 7 episode and does centre on that relationship between 7 and Janeway, in a way, this season is about that.

975
00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:03.840
And so then they move on from it in five.

976
00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:07.260
But I actually secretly quite like hope and fear.

977
00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:08.940
I don't know that everyone else does.

978
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:13.199
Well, I think as an episode of Voyager, it's quite boring.

979
00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:17.820
It's another ship that comes along and revenge tactics and all of this boring stuff.

980
00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:24.420
But as a 7 as a character piece, it reaches conclusions about a character journey.

981
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:27.659
I mean, we don't have character journeys on Voyager.

982
00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:33.539
So the fact that we're reaching some conclusions at the end of a season long character arc.

983
00:58:33.659 --> 00:58:34.920
It's something of a miracle.

984
00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:38.219
It also takes us back to Scorpion, doesn't it?

985
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:49.260
Because it's, um, you know, the revenge thing is motivated by, uh, what Janeway did negotiating with the Borg and are lying with them against 8472.

986
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:54.900
Like that's why that person goes back and tries to drop them back into Borg space.

987
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:57.000
And of course, it's got a beautiful set.

988
00:58:57.059 --> 00:58:57.900
I love that set.

989
00:58:57.960 --> 00:58:59.460
So I'm a sucker for that.

990
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:09.960
Pray reminds me that, and I still think that 4 and 5 is basically where Voyager is at his strongest, and don't, don't get me wrong.

991
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:14.159
There are still, at least half of those seasons are...

992
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.739
Average to poor.

993
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:29.519
But the other half, I think they've got a drive to them, they're buoyed by the fact that Jerry Ryan has joined the crew, um, that makes everybody else up their game.

994
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:40.079
Interestingly, it's exactly when DS9 went through the same sort of Renaissance in series 4 when they brought in Worf and all the dynamics shifted and it was really exciting because of it.

995
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:44.099
I've only they'd have done something with Roxanne's pregnancy, though.

996
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.920
You know, that would have been quite fun. but never mind.

997
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:51.480
I think that they could only really do that on Deep Space 9 where no one's really looking.

998
00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:59.340
I think in the kind of big flagship show that might have been a little bit too far, but it is great.

999
00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:00.599
It was a pretty great decision.

1000
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:02.940
It's great when they hang a lantern on it.

1001
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:03.480
Do you remember?

1002
01:00:03.539 --> 01:00:09.119
He goes, well, I beamed the baby from Keiko to Kira and someone goes, can you do that?

1003
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:10.199
Okay.

1004
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.739
So great.

1005
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:19.019
And then, of course, you know, the said joke, this is still your fault.

1006
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:19.860
My fault.

1007
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.360
Sorry, I'm talking about D.S. Knight again.

1008
01:00:24.420 --> 01:00:25.079
I can't help it.

1009
01:00:25.139 --> 01:00:25.920
I love that show.

1010
01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:29.280
No, no, no, but praise a very good episode of Voyager, I think.

1011
01:00:29.579 --> 01:00:37.019
And it's certainly top five, I think, from series four. just a really a really good watch.

1012
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:38.340
Yeah.

1013
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.380
Well, I watched Hunters and praise.

1014
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:53.219
So if you weren't watching along with us, dear listener, then you should go immediately and watch hunters and then pray because I think they're 2 pretty great episodes, that dovetail and that are both good in quite different ways.

1015
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.340
Although why they didn't run with the letters.

1016
01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:58.980
I mean, for God's sakes, what is wrong with you people?

1017
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:12.179
However, I won't say that Voyager can't hang a lantern on its own terrible decisions because in season 7 or for author, where Harry finally gets a conversation with his mother.

1018
01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:18.780
She turns up on the screen and goes, you get Captain Janeway on the screen now.

1019
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:20.940
I want to find out why you're still an ensign.

1020
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:25.260
Awesome.

1021
01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:37.679
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next.

1022
01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:42.119
You had control of the randomiser last time.

1023
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:45.119
Superb choice. with Max.

1024
01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:53.099
And so I'm going to bring balance back to the force. by getting us to watch an episode of Star Trek Enterprise.

1025
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:58.320
To be fair, it's been a while since you pulled this shit.

1026
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:00.539
Okay.

1027
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:11.460
It's literally the least covered episode, the one that we are kind of behind. only time we're ever going to watch it because I'm certainly never going to choose it.

1028
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:13.320
I have to pick it.

1029
01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:15.239
I get to sing the song and everything.

1030
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:15.840
It's great.

1031
01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:17.159
So we're definitely doing it.

1032
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:21.480
However, I feel like a caveat should be made before you press the button.

1033
01:02:21.539 --> 01:02:21.840
Okay.

1034
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.800
It should be a one or 2 because we've done a lot of 3 and 4 now.

1035
01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:31.079
And I know we like we like 4 because it's the one time when Enterprise is actually okay.

1036
01:02:32.460 --> 01:02:37.199
I can't be stuck with all the season one episodes at the end of this run.

1037
01:02:37.260 --> 01:02:38.280
Yeah.

1038
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:39.960
Sometimes in 2040.

1039
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:43.139
We've just got seasons one or 2 left.

1040
01:02:43.139 --> 01:02:44.039
And that's all.

1041
01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:47.219
It becomes a season one and 2 of Enterprise podcast.

1042
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.199
I'll tell what I'm going to do as well.

1043
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:56.579
I'm going to pull up our friend jammer and I'm going to read you the synopsis because obviously we ain't going to have a clue what they're all about.

1044
01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:58.679
Absolutely we're not. when you do it.

1045
01:02:58.739 --> 01:02:59.820
Give me just one moment, please.

1046
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.019
Okay.

1047
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:04.199
All right, I'm going to press the button then.

1048
01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:10.380
Uh, Season one, episode 11 cold front.

1049
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:15.300
Cold Front, as the Enterprise Place host, visitors on a religious retreat.

1050
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:15.960
Uh-oh.

1051
01:03:16.019 --> 01:03:23.219
Archer is made aware of the Sulaban intruder who may be part of a conspiracy waged from centuries in the future.

1052
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:26.159
So how many Bams does he give it?

1053
01:03:26.219 --> 01:03:27.179
Three stars.

1054
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:28.320
It's 3 stars.

1055
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.760
Bam and a beer.

1056
01:03:29.820 --> 01:03:30.659
Oh, yeah.

1057
01:03:31.380 --> 01:03:32.880
Snap.

1058
01:03:32.940 --> 01:03:35.880
I don't want to do the 1st one now.

1059
01:03:35.940 --> 01:03:37.380
No, let's go again.

1060
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:39.119
That sounds too good actually.

1061
01:03:39.179 --> 01:03:40.440
Let's do something worse.

1062
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:47.340
Cold in the title again, but it's season four, episode five, cold station 12.

1063
01:03:47.699 --> 01:03:49.679
So that is a pretty good episode.

1064
01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:51.239
Yeah, yeah.

1065
01:03:51.300 --> 01:03:53.639
Far too good for us.

1066
01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:54.239
I think so.

1067
01:03:55.139 --> 01:03:57.539
Oh, this is a possibility.

1068
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:01.800
Season two, episode 23 Regeneration.

1069
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:04.500
Is it the Borg episode?

1070
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:05.099
Yeah.

1071
01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:08.340
No, we can't do the good ones from series one.

1072
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:13.500
The whole point is we cover some of the bullshit, all right?

1073
01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:17.760
But we never do the good ones of one and 2 either.

1074
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:18.780
There are so few of them.

1075
01:04:18.900 --> 01:04:20.760
Is it good, is it?

1076
01:04:20.820 --> 01:04:22.079
I don't remember it.

1077
01:04:22.139 --> 01:04:25.079
He gives this a BEM and an extra star.

1078
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:26.400
3.5 stars.

1079
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:28.500
I really like regeneration.

1080
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:31.559
I don't think we should do that one.

1081
01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:32.460
Okay.

1082
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:36.900
The sequel to 1st contact really rather than a prequel to sort of anything else, isn't it?

1083
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:37.860
Yeah, yeah.

1084
01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:45.360
Well, and, you know, we've got to the point where actually we can do the Borg on TV with a bit of dynamism, which is quite fun.

1085
01:04:45.420 --> 01:04:46.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1086
01:04:46.019 --> 01:04:48.599
Because of 1st contact, I guess.

1087
01:04:48.659 --> 01:04:49.500
They're in the snow.

1088
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:50.340
It's rather wonderful.

1089
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:50.880
Okay.

1090
01:04:50.940 --> 01:04:52.619
But no, come on.

1091
01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:53.460
Something terrible then.

1092
01:04:53.699 --> 01:04:55.679
Oh, here we go.

1093
01:04:55.739 --> 01:04:56.880
This is probably it.

1094
01:04:56.940 --> 01:05:00.420
Season one, episode 20, Oasis.

1095
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:02.159
Oasis.

1096
01:05:02.219 --> 01:05:10.139
The Enterprise crew contacts the marooned crew of a downed vessel and begins suspecting the survivors are hiding a secret.

1097
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:12.840
That could be any episode of stuff.

1098
01:05:12.900 --> 01:05:16.320
It's nothing for you, but why would anyone choose that?

1099
01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:17.039
have to do it.

1100
01:05:17.099 --> 01:05:18.599
2.5 stars.

1101
01:05:18.659 --> 01:05:19.440
Oasis.

1102
01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:22.320
He says pleasant, but too familiar.

1103
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:23.940
Okay.

1104
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:25.380
Well, Oasis.

1105
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:26.880
I mean, I know nothing about it at all.

1106
01:05:26.940 --> 01:05:28.860
I must have seen it at some point.

1107
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.500
A 3rd of April 2002. can be anything.

1108
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:32.699
Now, listen to this.

1109
01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.159
This is a little pretty from jammer here.

1110
01:05:35.219 --> 01:05:42.900
The cynic and me wants to say, been here, done this is beaten into quasi-acceptance by the sentimental optimist.

1111
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:48.300
Oh, oh, that's a lot of work, to say, average.

1112
01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:50.039
Well, that's it.

1113
01:05:50.099 --> 01:06:00.659
It's kind of like him kind of going, oh, maybe enterprise will become good. but they have to decide to kind of blow it up at some point a couple of years time in order to kind of fix it.

1114
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:06.000
I'm happy to do a mid-range episode of enterprise that I've never seen before.

1115
01:06:06.059 --> 01:06:06.480
Why not?

1116
01:06:06.539 --> 01:06:09.179
That's why I pick up the bonus. thought that was all of them.

1117
01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:10.260
Oh, wait.

1118
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.019
Guest starring Renee Aubishonois.

1119
01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:14.219
Oh, okay, right.

1120
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:15.179
We're definitely on board.

1121
01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:17.460
That's okay. let's do that awesome.

1122
01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:37.500
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1123
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:42.480
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1124
01:06:42.539 --> 01:06:49.019
This episode was recorded on the 28th of October 2025 and released on the 31st of October.

1125
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.860
We'll see you next time to Star Trek Enterprise, Rasis.

1126
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:12.179
Okay.

1127
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:19.320
I'm doing, um, Beyond the Sea with Mags O'Halliday tonight.

1128
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:20.880
God, that is so good.

1129
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:25.920
It is just one of the best episodes they ever did and so early as well.

1130
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:29.400
So is that, that's the brother?

1131
01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:31.380
Her father dies or something?

1132
01:07:31.500 --> 01:07:32.820
Her father dies at the start, yeah.

1133
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:41.940
And then it's a serial killer, played by, of course, Brad Dorff, but the single best performers.

1134
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:44.400
I think he's ever given, just so intense.

1135
01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:48.059
Um, and Mulder doesn't believe him.

1136
01:07:48.119 --> 01:08:00.599
So that's that's sort of the hook for this episode is Mulder doesn't believe, but because he is reaching out to her with things that her father used to say, and he's just died, that she does believe, and he's like, why?

1137
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:01.260
why now?

1138
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:03.420
Scully, why now do you believe?

1139
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:15.719
And there's a bit where, you know, the serial killer's saying he can contact, he's sort of in psychic contact with the other serial killer that's kidnapped these 2 kids.

1140
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:16.859
That's what they're going through.

1141
01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:32.579
And Mulder gives him the cloth from the guys, the victims that he's got t-shirt that was sort of snagged on the car when he was kidnapped and he's sort of going, ah, and he's getting all this stuff about where they are.

1142
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:37.140
And then Mulder goes, that is from our New York Yankees t-shirt.

1143
01:08:37.199 --> 01:08:42.539
It's got nothing to do with the case And then, so you're like, fuck, okay, so it's all a con.

1144
01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:48.539
And then Scully goes to walk out and he starts singing Beyond the Sea at the funeral.

1145
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:50.220
It's so chilling.

1146
01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:53.939
My blood run cold. and the look on Gillian Hanson's face.

1147
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.819
I mean, she is so good in it.

1148
01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:58.859
Oh, she's brilliant.

1149
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:00.239
I mean, she's straight ahead of him.

1150
01:09:00.300 --> 01:09:01.739
I like him a lot.

1151
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:06.000
Like I do like him a lot, but it was always a joke that he only had the one facial expression.

1152
01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:11.699
That's the one where she redefines what you expect from the regulars in that show.

1153
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:13.920
Oh, it's so great.

1154
01:09:13.979 --> 01:09:18.539
That's the one where she kicks away Jodie Foster's Clarice.

1155
01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:19.260
Yeah, okay.

1156
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:21.600
And totally, yeah. is Scully.

1157
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:22.920
Yeah, okay.

1158
01:09:22.979 --> 01:09:26.039
So what's how early is beyond the sea?

1159
01:09:26.100 --> 01:09:31.020
It's in the middle of the season, so it's... 13 something like that.

1160
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:42.539
It's the lowest single lowest rated episode of the X-filed ever, and it was the episode where basically the cancellation notice came in and said this is just, and it's just so good.

1161
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:44.699
It's crazy.

1162
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:46.560
Ventilation, noticed. didn't know that.

1163
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:48.539
They cancelled the series, didn't they?

1164
01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:49.140
At the end of one.

1165
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:53.699
That's why one ends with deep throat being killed and the X-Files being shut down.

1166
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:56.579
It was never supposed to reopen.

1167
01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:57.600
That was it.

1168
01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:00.239
That was a one and now, and then they got a reprieve.

1169
01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:01.920
It was basically the Doctor Who thing.

1170
01:10:01.979 --> 01:10:04.560
They just they had nothing else. couldn't think of anything else.

1171
01:10:04.619 --> 01:10:13.500
So they said, Chris, you've got another year to make it work. and then Susan Terry's with it. it takes off. flew off because I remember it at the time.

1172
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:20.220
You know, like I'm old enough to kind of actually remember watching it as as it went out, like from that very beginning.

1173
01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:21.359
What's the one?

1174
01:10:21.539 --> 01:10:25.439
What's the one where it's a buried train?

1175
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:27.779
That's the end of two, Anasal, yeah.

1176
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:30.779
Yeah, that's what I thought because I was watching that with Robert.

1177
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:39.899
You know, at our house, like when we were 1st living together and getting that thing where it's like, oh, shit, they're not going to resolve this.

1178
01:10:39.899 --> 01:10:46.920
They're not going to solve this. train car. and it's just a pile of bottles everywhere.

1179
01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:48.000
Those visuals.

1180
01:10:48.060 --> 01:10:50.159
I mean, compare it to Star Trek.

1181
01:10:50.220 --> 01:10:51.300
Do you know what I mean?

1182
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:56.699
Just the imagination of the visuals and just the scale of it and the fact that they're outside all the time.

1183
01:10:56.760 --> 01:10:59.640
Half the time it's the lighting that does most of the work.

1184
01:10:59.699 --> 01:11:00.359
Yeah, yeah.

1185
01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:01.920
It's just so atmospheric.

1186
01:11:01.979 --> 01:11:04.800
Mark Snow always music. as well.

1187
01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:06.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1188
01:11:06.720 --> 01:11:10.319
So even in the dogs this season, the lighting has been exquisite.

1189
01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:12.420
Yeah, so good.