WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:34:21

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back this week with an episode of Star Trek Voyager.

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It's season four, episode 16, Prey, and it's written by Brennan

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Braga, and directed by Alan Eastman, who you will know from Honour

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Among Thieves, Joe. Oh, that's very well directed, that episode.

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And relativity.

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So I watched Hunters because it's not quite part 2 of a two-parter

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but it is the introduction of the Hirogen.

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And so we get hunters, we get prey.

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Then we get something else.

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What happens after that?

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I can't remember.

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There's one episode and then we get the killing game parts one and

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two.

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So the Hunters and Prey are introducing the big band, I think, for

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the big upcoming event episode towards the end of the season.

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And I thought hunters were so good.

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Like so good.

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Hunters is great, but the problem with it is, is the Hirogen is

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the most boring part of the episode.

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And that's what they run with for the next 3 episodes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So this was just sort of gently introducing the hirogen as a B

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plot to an excellent A plot.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You introduce your new big part as a B plot alongside an episode

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that is about the premise of the show and then not run with the

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premise of the show.

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It's so good song.

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I kind of like it because the Hirogen actually get introduced in

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an earlier episode, don't they, the episode before where the array

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of satellites that enables some message in a bottle, isn't it?

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Oh, yeah, they're sort of on a screen just covered in static.

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They're not definable.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so we just introduced them super gradually.

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And so we have message in a bottle, then we have hunters, and then

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we have prey and prey means that the hierogen are kind of

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established, they're not coming out of nowhere.

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And I think prey is so well done.

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Like, it's a pretty standard Voyager, but I just thought it was so

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just thoroughly well done and so enjoyable that then they come

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back for the killing game and they're already a proper established

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big band.

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I think it's well done.

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There's something in the air in season four.

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We've got the awkward season 3 out of the way.

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You know, Jerry Taylor's handed the baton onto Brannenbraga and

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Rick Berman and they brought in 7 of nine, which has given the

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show a kick up the arse.

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Scorpion, which is the single highest rated Voyager episode that

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ever went out.

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So they managed to actually get a bit of attention at the start of

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the season, for all the right reasons, because they put out

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something good, um, and introduced something great.

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There's friction behind the scenes because Jerry Ryan has joined

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the show and Kate Mulgrew is not happy.

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And what I love about this is she's very happy to talk about this

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now, and she's very happy to talk about how she behaved and how

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she didn't give Jerry Ryan the help that she needed, and how Jerry

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Ryan admits that this was a really miserable time for her, that

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she was trying to do good work, and she wasn't welcomed into this

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family.

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There's always stressing what a family voyager is, you know, behind

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the scenes and in front of the camera.

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It's a family, as long as somebody young and pretty doesn't come

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along, you know.

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Yeah, and rock the boat a bit.

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I think, and it's just a suspicion, I think that Brannan is savvy

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enough to see what's happening, and he's like, we can put a bit of

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that in the show, actually, because there's a scene at the end of

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prey between Mulgrew and Ryan, and there's no acting required

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whatsoever. where they are literally, oh, but getting their claws

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out at each other.

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And Janeway's last line of as you were.

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It could basically be Mulgrew going, yeah, fuck you and walking

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off.

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I mean, it fucking sizzles in a way that Voyager rarely.

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The character interactions on Voyager rarely sizzle like this.

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But on another level...

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I just thought this had an urgency and a drive and some visual

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ambition to it. that, again, I don't think Voyager, like you look

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at the rest of the episodes this season, they're not sort of doing

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Predator.

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They're doing boring technobabble mysteries like they normally

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do.

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Next week we're doing, what is it, Nazis?

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Hello, hello in the holodeck.

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I know it's fun, but it is just boring normal Star Trek.

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I think it has a scale to it, though.

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I mean, it is a kind of, you know, like a late season 2 parter.

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And I do think that those tend to be pretty interesting and that

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they do kind of ramp things up.

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I mean, we've done the killing game.

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I think it could have been one though.

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That there's enough story for one in those 2 episodes.

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Yeah.

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But what I like about it is that the status quo has changed by the

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time the episode starts and that the hirogen have been made a big

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enough big bad to support that, to make that credible.

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It's not just the bomar have taken over and we've got to get the

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ship back.

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What a record of this, isn't it?

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Because they're introduced in a B plot.

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And then they get one episode where they're shown to be, you know

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aggressive hunters and then we have a fun two-parter on the

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holiday with them.

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And then we never see them again.

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We never see them again.

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What is wrong with this show?

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I mean, I was watching this going, there's some potential here

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right?

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They're visually interesting.

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You've brought in a great actor to play the lead Hirogen in this

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Tony Todd, right?

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You clearly know you're onto something.

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Why then do you ditch it and go back to mystery of the week

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episodes?

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I don't get it.

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Why did DS9 learn this stuff?

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Learn, oh my god, Jeffrey Coombes is way in.

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He's amazing.

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Oh, whoops, we've killed him off.

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We'll turn him into a clone and we'll give him 2.5 seasons to

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dazzle us.

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Why is it DS9 can do that?

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And Voyager goes, we've done it.

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What's next?

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I think it's partly the premise, and I think at this point, you

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know, they realise that the Kazon thing was a bit ridiculous, you

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know, where they could be travelling home for kind of a season and

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a half, but Marge Carla could catch up with me.

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Yeah, don't make no sense, but it's a more interesting show that

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they show consequences.

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Sure.

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But what they're trying to do, I think, is, you know, trying new

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aliens out and they rarely work.

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But, like, that's a fun thing to try and do.

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I don't think that what they're deciding to do is the problem.

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I just think golf and they don't manage to pull it off.

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But here, I think they do manage to pull it off. really well.

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And they use the show's own mythology to help build up. hirogen.

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Well, that idea of bringing together 2 things they've established

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separately, Species 8472, and now the Hirogen and bringing them

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together, that is so not Star Trek Voyager.

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It's very refreshing.

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And it's cleverly done as well.

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This episode surprised me.

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I had seen it before, but not for decades.

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And the episode did actually manage to surprise me a couple of

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times and it doesn't end up where you think it's going to end up.

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I do have a couple of criticisms and I think there's one that is a

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very kind of Brannan Braga problem about the kind of ethical

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dilemma.

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Oh, it doesn't reach a conclusion at all.

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It doesn't need to do that, but it doesn't even say what the

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stakes are, I think, properly.

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But it is very Star Trek, to bring 8472 back and they're

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implacably evil.

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Remember, they're much, much eviler than the Borga.

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Well, until in the flesh, when they're not even anymore, and we're

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doing diplomacy with them in the shape of human beings.

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What?

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But here, here we have pity for them.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like it's still a killer.

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It's still super dangerous, but it's vulnerable and we don't want

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to give it over to the Rogan to be killed and eviscerated.

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And like that's very Star Treky, I think.

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You know, like expanding your kind of moral horizons.

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You actually owe 8472 something morally.

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You, you need to treat them well.

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It's obligatory to do that, even though in other circumstances, you

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might have to use lethal force in self-defence against them.

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I thought that was pretty good.

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And that's properly Star Trek, but I don't think Braga has it in

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him to sell what the real issues are there.

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We'll talk about it later.

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I like, and I think it's a weakness, but I think it's a weakness

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that works that there's ambiguity to 7's reaction to it as well.

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We don't really land on why she objects so much.

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I mean, she says this because they are evil and all this.

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But like I was like, is she scared?

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Is she angry?

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Does she just not understand?

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Jane Way's morality.

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Like, we don't land on anything.

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And Jerry plays it in a way that any one of those readings could

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possibly be true.

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I quite like that.

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Oh yeah, no, no.

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But I do think the problem is that Janeway doesn't know why she

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has to why she has to rescue.

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Bran doesn't know.

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And so Janeway can't make a proper point.

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And so Jerry has nothing to react against.

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Like, if it was about compassion and if it was about what we owe

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to each other, then Seven's rebelling interestingly about

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something that's foundational to Star Trek.

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And that would be interesting.

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As it is, we just get a sort of petulant child.

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I'm growing up now and I'm not growing up the way you like.

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And so you're being mean to me.

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And so that's not as interesting as I reject the premise of your

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kind of moral reasoning, which is much scarier.

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And of course, it's never going to land.

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You know, it'll get mentioned next week and then we'll never talk

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of it again.

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They do explore that a bit, though.

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I think you're underselling that a little bit because the whole

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I'm not becoming what you want me to become.

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Oh, I think that's really interesting because Janeway has a set of

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expectations.

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We've saved you and we've absorbed you into this crew and we

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expect you to behave in a certain way.

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And her reaction of, well, no, I didn't ask for this.

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You chose for me to be like this.

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And now you're expecting me to be who you want me to be and I like

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her pushing against that because we don't do any of that in

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Voyager at all.

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You know, we...

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It's in the premise.

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We could have done it with the McKee.

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A terrorist crew. episode 2 just went, well, I suppose we'll all

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be Starfleet then, you know.

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Just put the uniforms on then.

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I do like that.

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And I like the fact that 7 never really quite gets to be who

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Janeway wanted her to be because she's got her own mind and it's

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Jerry playing it.

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So of course, she's vivid and interesting and engaging in all

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kinds of ways.

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So there's stuff happening in this season.

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That's really interesting.

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I think we do abandon most of it come next year, but it's

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happening now, so we might as well enjoy it, you know?

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What do you think?

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Should we go in?

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Let's do it.

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Yes.

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Watch Kate and Jerry sizzle.

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All right. 5, 4, 32, one, and we're off.

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It's the bathroom story that always gets me, Nathan.

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When she needed her loan.

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She needed the low, Jerry.

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And Kate said, no, she's not getting out of that costume.

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You can hold it until the end of the scene.

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Oh wow.

249
00:12:27.059 --> 00:12:35.940
So here we have Tony Todd as the main hirogen. and one of the

250
00:12:35.940 --> 00:12:36.419
things...

251
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.299
So Tony Todd is so good in this.

252
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.840
And again, he's just an excellent guest star, and this is another

253
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.960
Star Trek episode that relies on an excellent guest star.

254
00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:51.000
And his performance up against this other guy who is really shit

255
00:12:51.059 --> 00:12:52.799
like really terrible.

256
00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:55.200
Also deliberate, right?

257
00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:56.759
Let's make him look really true.

258
00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:59.580
So Tony Todd.

259
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:03.840
Like you said to me kind of earlier on in the chat, that he's

260
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.799
absolutely refusing to play it like a space alien and he's playing

261
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:09.179
it like per times.

262
00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.340
He's like, give me my weapon.

263
00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:14.159
He's awesome.

264
00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:15.000
He's really fun.

265
00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:17.639
Whereas the other guy is just doing space alien voice.

266
00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:18.600
Do you know what I mean?

267
00:13:18.659 --> 00:13:20.039
And space alien intonation.

268
00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:23.039
There's 2 in hunters. as well.

269
00:13:23.100 --> 00:13:24.720
They're just terrible.

270
00:13:24.779 --> 00:13:28.019
They've got and they've got this sort of filter over their voices

271
00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:31.379
that make them sound like Androids in Hunters because they're

272
00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:32.100
wearing the masks.

273
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.659
Oh yes, of course.

274
00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:36.360
So there's no performance at all, whereas you don't get Tony Todd

275
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:37.679
in and say, don't give a performance.

276
00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:39.000
Yeah, yeah.

277
00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:42.779
He did say that the these were kind of the most challenging

278
00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:46.860
prestige. stroke fat gun, the same way I stroke my dildos, look.

279
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:48.419
Oh, my God.

280
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:49.320
Oh my god.

281
00:13:49.379 --> 00:13:50.759
That's eye watering.

282
00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.460
Look at the size of that garden.

283
00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:57.480
Oh, I was getting worried here, you know, when they were sort of

284
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:00.659
painting his hair thing and they were bringing in the sort of

285
00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:01.919
Native American drums.

286
00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:03.120
I was like, no, don't do that.

287
00:14:03.179 --> 00:14:04.559
Please don't do that.

288
00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:09.240
It's that specialist who's back again from series two.

289
00:14:09.299 --> 00:14:11.340
Oh no, don't do that.

290
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:12.840
See, I loved all of this.

291
00:14:12.899 --> 00:14:15.840
Now, do you remember the episode with the dinosaur people?

292
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.580
in series three.

293
00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:19.500
You know, the...

294
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:24.120
Yeah, and the whole of the opening pre-title sequence is just from

295
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:28.080
their point of view, finding Hogan or something.

296
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.799
Hogan in a tunnel and then a basic planet.

297
00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:33.840
They find Voyager at the end of the pre-time.

298
00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:35.100
Well, this is doing something similar.

299
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.080
I think Braga wrote that one as well, you know.

300
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:39.419
I like this.

301
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:46.919
Yeah, what I think is really super interesting is this is, um, like

302
00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:53.580
it's introducing the Hirogen and we are, it's their point of view

303
00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:54.179
isn't it?

304
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.879
So it's the Hirogen's point of view.

305
00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:00.360
And so you put them up against Species 8472.

306
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:04.679
And you know how I say it's at the end of the teaser that you find

307
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.179
out what the episode's about.

308
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:11.039
I think this episode lies to you and makes you think that it's

309
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.980
going to be about a thing when it doesn't end up being about that

310
00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:14.220
thing.

311
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:18.240
And it's not entirely clear initially who's going to come out on

312
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.659
top out of Species 8472 and the Hirogen.

313
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.360
There's no Voyager at all in the pre-toll sequence.

314
00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:26.940
No, it makes me think I'm going to watch an episode of Star Trek

315
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:27.600
Herogen.

316
00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:29.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

317
00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:33.539
But it so it looks like they're scarier than the herogen.

318
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:39.240
I mean, the hierogen are scarier than 8472.

319
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:44.820
And while that ends up being true at the end of the episode

320
00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:45.240
doesn't it?

321
00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:49.200
It's because this is a kill, do you know what I mean?

322
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:54.000
Like they've effortlessly beaten the 8472, but that ends up not

323
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.379
being what has happened.

324
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.480
And so when we come back, it's still alive.

325
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:00.659
I'm going to stop making these comparisons, I promise.

326
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.200
But that sort of close-up on Tony Todd there, where he sort of

327
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.740
puffed his chest out and went, a flawless kill.

328
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.500
It's sort of the way I do, you know, when I'll satisfy someone

329
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:10.919
great.

330
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.139
That was, yeah, a great shag.

331
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:20.100
It was just not playing the alpha male at all in this.

332
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:21.539
He refuses to do it.

333
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.639
He goes, no, I'm going to make this character a bit more

334
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:24.179
interesting.

335
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:29.460
I mean, did you notice, you know, all the extra fronds and moss

336
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:32.039
there that they put in stockcave set number 62?

337
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:33.179
number one.

338
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:33.779
Yeah.

339
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:36.539
And it was really well lit as well for ones.

340
00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:38.519
It almost looked like it was outside.

341
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:40.620
Yeah, yeah, with their sky.

342
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.340
Like they had, you know, like they didn't, it wasn't just inside

343
00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:47.399
the sort of cave, it looked like they were doing this against a

344
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.220
cliff and you could see the sky and it looked good because it was

345
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:50.700
well lit.

346
00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:55.259
It's the something I have noticed, you know, covering Voyager on

347
00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:58.379
the entire Star Trek project is that very often, you know, when we

348
00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:02.519
don't do Star Trek Voyager, it's a lot more interesting than when

349
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:02.879
they do.

350
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:07.980
So distant origin, this, we go to the future.

351
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:09.180
Yeah, it's true.

352
00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:13.440
When we go to the past in, um, oh, God, what's the one?

353
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:14.640
You know, when they do the voyage home.

354
00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:15.960
You know, they're on the beach.

355
00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:17.579
I don't know.

356
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:18.420
Friendship one.

357
00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:23.339
Oh, Futures End. non-sequitur.

358
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:24.240
Oh, futures end.

359
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:25.319
Oh, that's awesome, my love.

360
00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:27.779
This is another good one where we go to Earth and it's not doing

361
00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:28.500
Voyager.

362
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.900
See, every time they avoid doing Voyager is great.

363
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:36.059
Yeah, but it is going to be Voyager now, and it's going to be

364
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:37.740
pretty good Voyager, I have to say.

365
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.759
Yes, I agree.

366
00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:40.319
I love this.

367
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:43.380
Seven learning bedside manner via the doctor.

368
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.539
See, now this is something.

369
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.180
This is something that they realised worked.

370
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.660
And then they go, right, we're going to do someone to watch over

371
00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:52.019
me.

372
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.759
A nice gentle comedy where the doctor teaches 7 how to have a

373
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:57.960
romantic liaison.

374
00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.819
So they can't do it.

375
00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:00.839
They can learn.

376
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.619
In fact, this is kind of sweet, isn't it?

377
00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:06.779
Because she rejects the premise of it.

378
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:10.799
It's actually really fun because now you've got the doctor who is

379
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.819
kind of brash and obnoxious and hasn't properly mastered how to

380
00:18:14.819 --> 00:18:18.119
you know, interact with people in a kind of gentle and thoughtful

381
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.680
way, trying to teach 7 how to do that when she's even worse than

382
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:23.400
him at it.

383
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.200
And it's delightful.

384
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:26.759
Like Tess used to help me with this one.

385
00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:29.579
Now I'm going to train you, you know, like I think that's

386
00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:30.299
adorable.

387
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:31.799
And this is so funny.

388
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:37.740
And and just the moment at which 7 loses her shit with this is so

389
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:38.039
good.

390
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:41.640
But then she's only in front of compliments about the doctor.

391
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:44.039
She's like, I'm not reading this bullshit.

392
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:51.599
When she goes out of the room saying, have a nice day, it's almost

393
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.099
like I'm done with this crap.

394
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.339
No, I actually think I didn't read it that way.

395
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.140
She says this lesson is terminated.

396
00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:01.200
And he goes, yeah, yeah.

397
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:03.539
I know, but look, no, no, it softens.

398
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:03.960
You look.

399
00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:09.480
Yeah, because she, it softens them. think that she's conceding.

400
00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.119
Like she's actually trying to be nice.

401
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.819
And like it's that moment of connection.

402
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.640
I think it's really, really well considered, and it is that thing

403
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.279
where we're thinking about the premises of the 2 characters and

404
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.339
how they work together as well as how the 2 performers work

405
00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:23.700
together.

406
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.559
He has softened a bit, though.

407
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:27.539
Go back and watch those series, one episode.

408
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.259
Like, you know, he's like, he's now giving a performance.

409
00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:33.660
Back then he was basically a robot for a season.

410
00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:36.539
Bridge banter for beginning.

411
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.519
It's the worst thing ever.

412
00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:40.140
Bradon should read that.

413
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.920
But look, she turns around and stops and says has a pleasant day.

414
00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:46.859
And I think she means it and he takes it that way.

415
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:47.579
And I think that's nice.

416
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.240
You know, she's rejected the idea, but not completely. the start

417
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.880
of someone to watch over me, whereas teaching her all about how

418
00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:54.960
babies are born.

419
00:19:55.019 --> 00:20:00.119
He's like, the drama of the womb, the worms come flying in and

420
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.099
she's like, oh, why are we doing it?

421
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:06.000
I think they realise that that's the best double out they've got

422
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.299
on the show.

423
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.740
And they keep giving Jerry and Robert things to do for the rest of

424
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:11.160
the series.

425
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:14.519
Well, I think Jennifer and Robert were great together too.

426
00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:16.619
Like, I mean, it's Robert.

427
00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:17.099
He's great.

428
00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:18.180
It's better, yo.

429
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:21.240
Jennifer, isn't she?

430
00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:21.900
Oh, for sure.

431
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:22.859
Yeah, yeah, no question.

432
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:28.019
And it's just because as well, because 7 is such an acerbic

433
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:31.500
character, for some reason, when you're in comedy and you're the

434
00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:33.180
most serious person, it's so funny.

435
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.619
I just think the way she's taller than him as well, you know, which

436
00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:40.920
is the opposite of Jennifer too. you know, like...

437
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:42.839
Let's not remember, this is the character that went up to Harry

438
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:44.819
Kim and went, you may now remove your clothes.

439
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.319
We are going to have sex.

440
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:49.019
We've still got a bit of that here, don't we?

441
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.740
Oh, no, it was in last week's episode in Hunter where we're still

442
00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:53.400
talking about that.

443
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:00.539
What really surprised me about this episode was some of the

444
00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:01.319
execution?

445
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:03.480
I think when they're doing the action.

446
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:07.619
Yeah, we've gone around bloody starship corridors chasing

447
00:21:07.619 --> 00:21:08.220
monsters.

448
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:09.359
We've done it so much.

449
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:11.819
DSI, TNG, TOS.

450
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:18.900
There was a bit of visual dynamism to this, I thought at times.

451
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.460
They turn the lights down.

452
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:22.619
They turn the oxygen off at one point.

453
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:23.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

454
00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.640
That was a wonderful bit where Chewbox suddenly started flying.

455
00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:27.779
I was like, what's happening?

456
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.460
Yeah, for a change.

457
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:30.240
Well, that's right.

458
00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:34.200
We complain about Star Trek, the Next Generation, never, ever does

459
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:35.700
anyone put on a spacesuit.

460
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.259
And now we, that's a thing that we routinely do.

461
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.859
One thing that I missed there is that 7 comes onto the bridge to

462
00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:46.740
challenge Janeway early in the episode, but it's about something

463
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:47.940
different, isn't it?

464
00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:50.039
It's about going to rescue the pilot.

465
00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:56.099
Um, and Janeway does say that it's about compassion, and then

466
00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:58.740
later on, she says, and now we know more about them.

467
00:21:58.799 --> 00:21:59.880
Do you know what I mean?

468
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:01.140
Now we know more about them.

469
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.880
And so it was worth doing.

470
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:09.900
So that's some attempt, I think, to kind of like enumerate or kind

471
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:13.200
of elucidate on what Starfleet's ideals are.

472
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.180
I want to think it was sad.

473
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.819
I love the scale of the Hirosion sets.

474
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.420
I love the hanging skulls that come leering at the camera.

475
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:27.420
I love the bubbling vats of 13 different species that they put in

476
00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:29.039
the acid to turn into food.

477
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.500
Look at the smoke.

478
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:37.259
I don't know, there's just a scale and an atmosphere to it.

479
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:43.380
I mean, it's still the same old bits of set joined together at the

480
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:43.680
end.

481
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:47.880
It's not a hugely different look, but some more effort has gone

482
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:48.359
into it.

483
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:52.799
And I think, you know, being able to amortise these sets over 2

484
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.960
episodes and maybe more.

485
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:56.220
Maybe we go back to it.

486
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:57.720
But I think that's what helps.

487
00:22:57.779 --> 00:22:58.920
That's what it means.

488
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.440
I think Alanis and helps as well, though, because that scene

489
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:03.000
started with them beaming in.

490
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.839
And then he went up to, he took the camera up to look at the

491
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:09.839
ceiling, to see how high it was, and then he turned the camera

492
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.420
around and you could see how long the set was.

493
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.880
Like, I don't think the directors always get the best out of what

494
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.920
they've got on Star Trek Roger.

495
00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.319
Do you remember collective and all that yellow lighting in the

496
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:22.920
bullshit?

497
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:27.240
In fact, I had a little horrible PTSD flashback to it at the

498
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.299
beginning of that shard where we had that yellow lining again.

499
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:34.019
Oh, we just missed a bit where Tom Paris kicks that ball that's

500
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:34.619
behind him now.

501
00:23:34.619 --> 00:23:38.220
And it's clearly supposed to be a huge iron ball, but

502
00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:40.380
unfortunately, it's a very hollow egg.

503
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.019
Yeah, I love his reaction to this.

504
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:43.680
What?

505
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:44.279
It's a head.

506
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.559
That's pretty funny.

507
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:50.940
So you're right.

508
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.759
Like, visually, it's not so different from what we've seen

509
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:54.059
before.

510
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:56.940
I just think how it's shot and lit.

511
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:58.019
They did.

512
00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:59.579
They're just using what they've got well.

513
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:00.839
I think so.

514
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.400
That was quite impressed.

515
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:05.700
This is not at all where we expected to be.

516
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:08.460
Do you remember we had a flawless kill at the end of the opening

517
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.559
and now they're dead.

518
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:11.940
Do you know what I mean?

519
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.700
And clearly the 8472 has survived.

520
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:15.720
I think that's great.

521
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:19.259
It was a proper twist that I just didn't expect at all.

522
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.500
What happens when one implacable phone meets another implacable

523
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:23.160
phone?

524
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:25.680
Someone's going to win and it wasn't the hirogen.

525
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:29.759
No, but I mean, well, it was eventually though, wasn't it?

526
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:31.319
It's just a bit where you sit.

527
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:31.680
No.

528
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:35.220
Oh, my boy, the bit where you see Species 8472 climbing over the

529
00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:36.119
hull of Voyager.

530
00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:36.960
I love that shot.

531
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:38.279
Yeah.

532
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.460
It was like, I wonder where it went.

533
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:44.519
And then we're just cut to the outside of the ship and it's just

534
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.500
walking over the side of the ship.

535
00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:47.880
I love this bit too.

536
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:48.779
Do you know what I mean?

537
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.619
Like they start to detect things happening to the outside and they

538
00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:53.940
don't know what they are.

539
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.779
And, you know, like things are happening like, um, you know

540
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.359
there's decompression in the Harland, various things happen.

541
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.480
They're so...

542
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:05.700
Dialogue is so pony.

543
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:10.140
It's basically the one page synopsis of a hirogen.

544
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:14.099
And because sort of Hunter's introduced us visually to the idea of

545
00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:16.859
the Hirogen, and because we're going to have fun next week with

546
00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:17.759
the two-parter.

547
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.359
This is the only time now we've got to give you all the exposition

548
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:22.380
about what they're about.

549
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.180
So Chakotay does it all in one.

550
00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:26.880
Well, we go so far as we can tell, they're hunters, they go around

551
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.200
looking for other species.

552
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.799
They put people in vats and turn them into food, you know, it's

553
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:33.359
like, thank you. we've got everything we need.

554
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:33.779
Let's go.

555
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:35.220
We kind of saw that.

556
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:36.900
I reckon the best thing.

557
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.519
I reckon the best thing is because, like, didn't, yeah, then we

558
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:42.119
saw that last week.

559
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:43.740
Didn't we say that last week?

560
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.559
like 90s trek to show us something and then explain it

561
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:47.039
afterwards.

562
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:48.359
Yeah, that's right.

563
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:53.160
But I think the like wolves thing is maybe the best explanation.

564
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:54.299
That's a great line.

565
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:56.160
Who was hunting the hunters?

566
00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:57.000
Hunters.

567
00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:58.740
Yeah, and that's where we see it.

568
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:00.839
No, that's not bad.

569
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:03.299
They've got the shadow of the creature on the hull of the ship as

570
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:05.400
well. really long shadow as well.

571
00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:09.000
And we go around it, so... fucking awkward.

572
00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:12.839
I think that's a nice effect shot, though, for the time.

573
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:13.500
Yeah, yeah.

574
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:17.400
On the memory alpha page, the guy geeks out about how excited he

575
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:20.880
was about animating it, which I think is delightful, bless him.

576
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:25.019
No, because I do think it is pretty great.

577
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:28.259
I think it's more of a problem when they're trying to put it in

578
00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:30.000
against people and sets.

579
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:32.819
But when it's just a visual effect. looks pretty good.

580
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:39.119
They do have Tony Todd fighting the Hirogen in a scene, fighting

581
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.759
it hand to hand in this episode.

582
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:45.660
Keep an eye out for it because it's pretty impressive when you

583
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:48.119
think about what they were able to do back then.

584
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:51.539
More impressive than just animating a complete, you know, like

585
00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:52.259
model shots.

586
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:54.539
More impressive than his shitty costume.

587
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:56.940
I mean, it's so lightweight, that costume.

588
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:01.259
You can tell that it's trying to look like a big bulky warrior, but

589
00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:03.660
you can see that material was lightweight.

590
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:04.680
Yeah.

591
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:06.480
I mean, I don't mind it.

592
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:09.420
It's different. and the colours are good.

593
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:10.019
I don't know.

594
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:13.140
Look at the look in Tony Tot's eyes.

595
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:13.559
Yes.

596
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:14.400
Yeah, yeah.

597
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:15.240
Hello, captain.

598
00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:18.059
I think I could be quite comfortable here, you know.

599
00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:21.900
He's so great.

600
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:26.519
But I also like just how much taller he is than her and how tall

601
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:27.839
they make all of them.

602
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:30.299
And it's not just by casting tall actors.

603
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.539
They do it by, you know, the way they're shot.

604
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:38.099
I think Kate has just had a yearly haircut, you know, it's very

605
00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:39.119
short in this episode.

606
00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:40.319
It is.

607
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:41.940
I don't mind it in this episode.

608
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.680
I'm not a big fan, as I said before, of the late Voyager, American

609
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:49.740
lady hair that Jane Mayer.

610
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:50.579
Oh, I love that.

611
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.019
The sort of Scully cut, yeah.

612
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.880
Yeah, no, you see, I like a, um, like with the French curl or with

613
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:58.500
the ponytail much better.

614
00:27:58.559 --> 00:27:59.940
I think they're much nicer looks.

615
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.279
Oh, look, Chakotay will be the same.

616
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:03.119
Is he going to do anything?

617
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:06.059
No, he's just pressing some buns.

618
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.119
I like the fact in Voyager, you know, it's sort of the reverse

619
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:10.140
fact of enterprise.

620
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.599
In Enterprise, we're always berating the fact that you've got

621
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:13.799
lovely Linda Park there.

622
00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:16.980
She's got nothing to do In Voyager, all the women get loads to do

623
00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:19.380
and it's Robert Beltran, who doesn't get anything to do.

624
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.019
That's a much better way of running a Star Trek show.

625
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.180
Yeah.

626
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:29.519
You know, the way he's leaning into her right now on the bridge.

627
00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:32.940
This shot exactly like this, that scene where he went, you know

628
00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:34.680
you're fiddling with your combatge again.

629
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:37.740
You know, I mean, you're going to make a tough choice, Captain.

630
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.160
I actually quite like this scene.

631
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:41.940
Do you know what I mean?

632
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.480
And this is Chakotay operating as planned, giving her the chance

633
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:47.039
to explain what she wants to do.

634
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:50.400
Um, and it, like, she's super relaxed.

635
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:52.259
Techna bubble on the screen, though.

636
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.539
There doesn't seem to be much actual dialogue.

637
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.059
No, but this is the weird stuff.

638
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:57.839
This is new.

639
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:58.920
Do you know what I mean?

640
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:00.779
Like Jeffrey's tube has collapsed.

641
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.359
The plasma network is going down.

642
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.599
Something's happening on deck 11 and we don't know what it is, and

643
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.740
that's the 8472 getting on board the ship, which I think is pretty

644
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:11.160
good.

645
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:13.500
I don't know why she was saying Harry.

646
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:15.900
If they know it's 8472 they're going after.

647
00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:17.160
The last time he faced them.

648
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:19.200
All those tubes coming out of his nose.

649
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.660
There's only 7 people on the ship.

650
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:22.380
What are you going to do?

651
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:23.099
It's true.

652
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:24.059
Yeah what is this?

653
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:25.259
This resitude, right?

654
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:25.980
Is that for me?

655
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:27.480
Yeah, yeah.

656
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:33.599
Because I think you're getting an alien, an alien music queue at

657
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:34.200
this point.

658
00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:37.200
Like I think it's referencing the music from Alien.

659
00:29:37.259 --> 00:29:41.819
Uh, you remember the alien sort of, its blood goes through several

660
00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:43.799
bulkheads in in the 1st film.

661
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:46.799
And I think that we reference that here.

662
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:48.839
You couldn't call it for me, though, could they?

663
00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:50.640
They called it polyphasic fluids.

664
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.319
I think they called it blood.

665
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.640
I think it's blood.

666
00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:55.500
Yeah, but it's not red or anything.

667
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:56.519
It just looks like that.

668
00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:57.359
Did you see that there?

669
00:29:57.420 --> 00:29:59.819
He realised how boring these scenes on the bridge are.

670
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:01.859
Sorry, he did a bit of how and how camera work as he went

671
00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:03.420
toward...

672
00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:10.500
But again, here, as you know, Bob, Beltran, it used to be

673
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:12.059
impervious to our scanners.

674
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:16.740
Yeah, so like it's just managed to get in the ship and we've seen

675
00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:20.339
what it does to the Hirogen who were very scary in the opener.

676
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.380
And so I think that's kind of...

677
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:24.660
This is when I knew it was going to be great, Nathan, because look

678
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:28.799
Janeway walked off the bridge with a gun. 7 came up to Bellana

679
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:29.460
with a gun.

680
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:30.539
Oh, way to big gun.

681
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:31.319
Oh here we go.

682
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.579
B'lana's got her ridiculous pregnancy thing on.

683
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.319
Oh, looking at...

684
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:38.519
You're getting a bump.

685
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:39.299
Bless her.

686
00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:40.079
She's showing.

687
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:41.579
Good for you, I'll say.

688
00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.859
Still waking up until the last day.

689
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.339
Yeah.

690
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:47.099
Species 8471 was...

691
00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.740
Getting onto the edge of the warp core and jumped on Balana

692
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:50.220
Torres.

693
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.079
Yeah, that's a great shot.

694
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:54.720
That's one thing that does know, right?

695
00:30:54.900 --> 00:31:00.660
One thing that Brenner knows to do is to sort of give you moments

696
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:01.200
like that.

697
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:04.200
And you look at his scripts, you know, he's the one that gave us

698
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.480
the smiley face and the warp core, remember?

699
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:07.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

700
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:12.299
And that's a great, that was, it wasn't that into the, into the

701
00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:13.079
adverts, then?

702
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:15.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

703
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.079
It was a great cliffhanger.

704
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:17.039
Brilliant, awesome.

705
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:18.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, really properly good.

706
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.819
And this is really, like, things are happening here.

707
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:21.660
Do you know what I mean?

708
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:24.900
It's like... with a pair of phases.

709
00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:26.700
But they're running.

710
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:28.019
There's things going in the background.

711
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:30.779
There's lots of extras, the camera's moving, you know, like it's a

712
00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:32.160
pretty dynamic scene, I think.

713
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.640
I mean, I think I could have got behind this episode where if it

714
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:40.859
was just about the Hirogan hunt on Voyager with April 72, but you

715
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:42.359
add in the Janeway 7 stuff.

716
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:45.000
Oh, God, it crackles.

717
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:46.799
Yeah, I think so too.

718
00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:51.839
Again, they make it about characters and it's it's people butting

719
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:53.279
heads. you know, on either side.

720
00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:56.460
It's 8472 versus the Hirogen and Janeway versus seven.

721
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.680
You see Kate going ahead there down the corridor.

722
00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:00.000
She like, I'm not waiting for Jerry.

723
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:01.019
You keep up, all right?

724
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:05.519
Jerry's doing great clenched teeth and holding one of those dumb

725
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:06.119
phases.

726
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:08.460
Oh, pointing at things.

727
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:11.579
They've had to take Bilana out of the action because we don't deal

728
00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:12.720
with her character anymore.

729
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:15.180
We can't have too many strong women in Voyager.

730
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.940
Yeah, Roxanne's pregnant as well, I guess.

731
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.380
Like, I don't know.

732
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.380
Excuse me, but when Nana was pregnant.

733
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.839
They had a kicking the shit out of people with the baby showing.

734
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:26.579
That's true with the baby showing.

735
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.259
Yeah, that was really fun. was a wonderful moment.

736
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:33.660
She did that. throw punches, you know.

737
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.220
Oh, yeah, yeah.

738
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.519
That's one of the great things about Giorgio is, you know, like a

739
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.440
50 something woman kicking men in the head.

740
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.299
Yeah, like you want that.

741
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:46.380
But everyone on Voyager is so short because you don't want anyone

742
00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:48.660
towering over Kate.

743
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.920
Do you know what I mean?

744
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:51.539
Chakotay's quite short.

745
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:55.140
And then seeing Tony Todd there amongst all these short ass people

746
00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:58.140
on the, like in Sickfay is pretty funny.

747
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.779
He says, you know, lower the force field.

748
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.700
And I will continue the hunt.

749
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.059
The same sort of way I would say, you know, come out with me.

750
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:07.680
I'll take you on a date, you know?

751
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:12.539
But I think he's got just a very rich deep voice.

752
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.579
Like I'm pigeonable, right?

753
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.460
Because you remember how much she broke her heart in the visitor.

754
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.740
Oh, boy, oh, boy.

755
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:21.000
But he's always good.

756
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:25.319
I mean, he was a, he was a, um, gem Hadar as well, wasn't he?

757
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:29.039
He was definitely Kern, wasn't he?

758
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:29.759
Worf's brother.

759
00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:30.960
He was Kern.

760
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:32.700
He might have been a Geminar at some point.

761
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:34.259
He played 4 or 5 roles.

762
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.200
And every time they, you know, they gave him more to do

763
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:38.099
because...

764
00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:39.000
Yeah, he's really good.

765
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:40.680
He's really good.

766
00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:42.240
He's a movie actor, for God's sakes.

767
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:43.440
I don't attract them all the time.

768
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.160
Yes, you see, I like this too.

769
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:52.619
They're scary, and they were definitely our enemy last week, but

770
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:59.099
she's trying to negotiate with them, and I guess, you know, the 7

771
00:33:59.099 --> 00:33:59.940
sees this.

772
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.779
Do you know what I mean?

773
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:02.160
Like it's, this is the problem.

774
00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:04.140
I don't see what 7's reacting against.

775
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.279
Here we go.

776
00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:09.360
This is where the gravity goes and suddenly he starts flying

777
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:10.019
Tuvok.

778
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:11.760
Oh, that's great.

779
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.440
Yeah, yeah.

780
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:16.320
That, I mean, that was probably my biggest surprise in the

781
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:16.619
episode.

782
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.079
They don't usually do things like this in boys.

783
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:19.380
No.

784
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:20.099
No.

785
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:21.719
Yeah.

786
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:24.960
Well, he's trying to basically make the ship.

787
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:29.400
Um, it's a really difficult place in order for them to hunt down

788
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.340
April 72 now. you know, they're trying to make it as tough as

789
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:32.820
possible.

790
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:40.019
But also, I think just 8472 is epically evil and challenging and

791
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:42.239
so it's able to turn the ship against them.

792
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.360
Like it pretty quickly masters the environment.

793
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:50.519
Um, and, you know, is kind of formidable and that's what you think

794
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.860
the episode is going to go.

795
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:53.820
Do you know what I mean?

796
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.000
That we're sidling up to the hirogen.

797
00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:59.760
We're negotiating with them and all of that sort of thing and

798
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:00.659
we're going to help them.

799
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:03.900
I used to think these space suits were so impressive.

800
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.239
Now I've seen the strange new world ones.

801
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.519
They just look like form plastic. don't they?

802
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.500
And yeah, look, see, look how short.

803
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.780
Look how short the medium robin is.

804
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:19.860
I mean, I know Tony Todd's tall.

805
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:24.000
You know when you really sort of fancy someone, yeah. and you're

806
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.940
like, 0 my god, you know, I think there might be a bit of hope.

807
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.739
I'm really going to sort of try and pursue you.

808
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.179
That's exactly how Tony told to play in going after A472 in this.

809
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:33.960
You know?

810
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:36.780
I've been tracking him for some time, you know.

811
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.300
I think I understand all of his behaviours.

812
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:43.079
It's predatory, you know, very strange. 500 metres away.

813
00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:50.460
I can't wait for him to just be like the bog standard Klingon and

814
00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:51.179
he just never did it.

815
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.579
Yeah, there's a huge sort of centre of gravity, isn't there, for

816
00:35:56.579 --> 00:35:58.739
aliens to behave like Klingons.

817
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.480
It's kind of the standard Star Trek.

818
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:01.980
Oh, look how shitty that is.

819
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:05.940
Like, they're just doing heel taps to indicate that the, the, the

820
00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:08.280
the, the, the, the...

821
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:10.440
Yeah, that's it.

822
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.039
Foley it.

823
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:11.579
Absolutely.

824
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:13.800
So the foley and some shitty acting.

825
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:17.460
What it is doing is it's taken a few lessons from the X-Files

826
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:17.699
here.

827
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.760
If we spotlight some scenes, we've got a bit of visual drama.

828
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:22.800
Bravo Voyager.

829
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:26.639
So these are the ones from 1st contact, which are just lying

830
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:28.199
around, aren't they?

831
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:30.539
This is great licing, Nathan.

832
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:32.219
This is really well known, yeah, same.

833
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.940
And shot from below with the red light, the sort of submarine

834
00:36:35.940 --> 00:36:36.900
lighting of the walls.

835
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.920
Yeah.

836
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:40.260
Yeah, I think it's really good.

837
00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:45.900
I always worry about teaming up 7 and Tuvok.

838
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:46.980
Why?

839
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:52.559
Just because they speak, they both speak into stupid space ways.

840
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:54.840
Don't contract any words.

841
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.239
It's just a little bit happy.

842
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.940
It's why you have to... deliver and the doctor because he's got a

843
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:05.639
lot of personality or chew locks for Neelix for the same reason.

844
00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:06.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

845
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:08.340
That's exactly right, because they're opposites.

846
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.980
They did it last week, too, in Hunters, didn't they?

847
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:14.159
They sent 7 and 2 Vok off in the shuttle.

848
00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:16.860
No, did they have lots of space dialogue, the pair of them?

849
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:23.639
The trouble is, of course, they needed to get rid of 7 and Tuvok

850
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:26.219
because all the people on the ship were getting letters from their

851
00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:27.000
families, you know?

852
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:28.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

853
00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:34.619
Oh, no, Tuvok has a really moving scene, I think, with Neelix, a

854
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:36.239
delightful scene with Neelix.

855
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:40.500
Every scene in Hunters, is just brilliant character into players.

856
00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:44.400
Janeway finds out that her other half's moved on.

857
00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:47.940
Yeah, that's unbelievably good.

858
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.500
It wasn't just the acting, though.

859
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.980
It's when she tells Medium Robert about it in a scene that I think

860
00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:56.280
is really nice and maybe opens the door for another relationship

861
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.300
between them.

862
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.019
I mean, it's an easy way out of the show's core premise, but the

863
00:38:01.019 --> 00:38:04.199
bit where they learn about the marquee being destroyed by the

864
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:04.920
dominion.

865
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.380
And the mention of the Dominion in Voyager.

866
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.119
Yeah, amazing. amazing.

867
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.039
Oh, look at this floating pad.

868
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:13.980
That's quite fun.

869
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:18.960
How do we suggest that there's no gravity when we can't do it for

870
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:19.500
spacious?

871
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.539
We'll just have a floating pads, you know?

872
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.719
There's no other equipment anywhere, just one pad.

873
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.280
No, that's right.

874
00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:26.880
That's right.

875
00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:30.179
They don't have CGI blood like they did in Star Trek.

876
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:32.880
They destroyed 1000000s of drones, 1000s of worlds.

877
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:33.300
Right.

878
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:36.000
So we're seeing the scale of what 8472 have done.

879
00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:36.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

880
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:38.039
Well, no, we're not seeing it at all.

881
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:38.940
We're hearing about it.

882
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:39.960
Yeah, about it.

883
00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:42.480
But they, and that.

884
00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:46.440
So that is a motivator, isn't it?

885
00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:48.840
That's motivating 7's decision at the end.

886
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:51.780
Look, they're doing Star Trek 6 now as well.

887
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:52.559
Floating blood.

888
00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:53.519
Oh, there you go.

889
00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:54.119
There is blood.

890
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:55.500
There is flirting blood.

891
00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:58.260
How do we know he's been down here?

892
00:38:58.320 --> 00:38:59.579
Oh, there's some blood floating.

893
00:38:59.639 --> 00:38:59.880
Okay.

894
00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:01.739
That's very handy.

895
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.579
Yeah, so yeah.

896
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:11.880
Yeah, so Seven's decision is also because of, like, they have to

897
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:12.360
sell that.

898
00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:18.059
They have to make 7 clearly aware of how destructive 8472 were to

899
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:18.780
the Borg, I guess.

900
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:21.480
There's just something every couple of minutes, right?

901
00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:23.940
You had the gravity going off and Shuvok floating.

902
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.280
You had the blood flying in the air there.

903
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:29.820
You had Species April 72 climbing on the hull of the ship.

904
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:33.480
Every couple of minutes, it's sort of pushing it along in a

905
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:34.079
dynamic way.

906
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:38.519
I think I think Bragger can absolutely structure these sorts of

907
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:39.000
scripts.

908
00:39:39.059 --> 00:39:40.559
Yeah, I think he can too.

909
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:42.539
I mean, I think he's really good.

910
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:44.400
And, you know, he was high concept guy.

911
00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:47.940
Wasn't he in late TNG, like timey, weird stuff.

912
00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:54.000
As much as I ripped that ridiculous amphibian Troy in Genesis.

913
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:55.380
Every couple of minutes.

914
00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:58.860
It was given us something weird to look at, wasn't he?

915
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.000
Yep, yep.

916
00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:02.039
What if Barclay was a spider?

917
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.320
Oh, that'd be quite good. put that in.

918
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:06.420
What if Worf was a Neanderthal?

919
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:07.920
Yeah.

920
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:13.739
But, but he, he, um, you know, like he, he's high concept guy. this

921
00:40:13.739 --> 00:40:15.480
isn't particularly high concept.

922
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:18.539
It's just 2 aliens hunting each other through, you know, the

923
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:21.239
voyager corridors, but you're right.

924
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:24.900
He's just able to make things happen every so often, like and

925
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:27.179
sustain some kind of pace.

926
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:29.519
Jukebox, that's a delix.

927
00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:32.699
I'd like you to exchange your spatula for a plasma rifle.

928
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.219
And New York is like, what's the true point?

929
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:35.940
What are you talking about?

930
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:43.139
This is Neelix's contractual obligation scene, but it's quite

931
00:40:43.139 --> 00:40:43.380
fun.

932
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:47.940
Yeah, I mean, I think the 2 of them are great together.

933
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.500
They really are great.

934
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:53.280
I think, though, because there was a pushback against the 2 of

935
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:54.239
them, Merleon.

936
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:58.380
They didn't focus on it as much as perhaps they could have, which

937
00:40:58.380 --> 00:40:59.039
is a shame.

938
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:02.760
I think rises a bad episode for the 2 of them too.

939
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:03.900
Yes.

940
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.000
Rice is a bad episode in general.

941
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:06.719
Yeah.

942
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.780
Yeah, I like the idea, but yes, it is.

943
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:13.079
That's that's an example where a guest guest stars can come in and

944
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:14.699
absolutely sabotage an episode.

945
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.380
They're all so boring.

946
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:20.280
I don't think even Tony Todd could salvage that one, though, if

947
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:20.820
I'm honest.

948
00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:25.079
So that is an interesting scene, but it gets interrupted, doesn't

949
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:29.760
it, by some stock footage from Scorpion Part 2.

950
00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:33.000
Look how much they've learned from the West Wing here, all this

951
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.400
sort of tracking shots talking and walking.

952
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.179
I do love it.

953
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.659
You've got a decent amount of corridor to do it in.

954
00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:40.980
We've just run out of corridors.

955
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.460
That's usually sort of the only dynamism we get in a 90s trek

956
00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:47.099
episode is people talking and walking, but we'll take it.

957
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.460
I mean, there's a bit of that here, but there's also just sort of

958
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:51.780
fun, interesting things happening.

959
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:55.800
Jesus, the look that Kate just gave Jerry.

960
00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.360
I think there may have been a rock bottom during this episode, you

961
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:00.659
know.

962
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.360
Kate, when are you going to get into character?

963
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:06.900
do you mean?

964
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:11.159
But like that's a moment, isn't it?

965
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:14.460
Like, she realises what they're doing.

966
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:15.900
It's not hunting them.

967
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:21.960
She realises before Tuvok does the telepathic contact thing that

968
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.719
he just wants to escape, that it's sick of being hunted and it

969
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:25.320
wants to escape.

970
00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:29.400
And I do like these flashbacks to them attacking the ball and

971
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:29.880
things like that.

972
00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:31.500
It just gives it a bit of scale.

973
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.320
And they were unbelievably great visuals.

974
00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:38.039
Like, they were so striking. dun, dun, dun.

975
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.500
Absolutely. good.

976
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.559
Yeah, we had a lot of fun with Scorpion.

977
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:45.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

978
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:46.440
It's terrible in lots of ways.

979
00:42:46.500 --> 00:42:52.260
But, um, but it's an epic and this, uh, using that imagery and

980
00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:56.460
using the 8472 again makes it a bit bit epic and it makes a

981
00:42:56.460 --> 00:43:00.539
hirogen epic too, I think. by comparison.

982
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.480
See, I wonder if this was a DS9 episode, yeah.

983
00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:08.340
It would be less the running round with guns hunting the thing

984
00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:08.760
down.

985
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:12.659
Less the sort of action adventure and more the moral debate.

986
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:16.500
And you would have those well-defined characters on DS9 and

987
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:17.519
everybody would have an opinion.

988
00:43:17.579 --> 00:43:19.920
No, it's done terrible things.

989
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.059
We can't send it home.

990
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.119
Yes, you know, we're Starfleet. what we do.

991
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:28.019
It would be much more, much more intelligent, I think.

992
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.739
Yeah.

993
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:31.800
Well, I think part of the, I think the problem is, like, this is

994
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:34.199
doing action adventure, and that's fine, and I think it does it

995
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:34.679
really well.

996
00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:37.260
This is an enjoyable Star Trek episode, I think.

997
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.820
But, and it, like, they're trying to make us feel pity for it, but

998
00:43:41.820 --> 00:43:43.139
it looks so ridiculous.

999
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:46.739
Um, it's, that's a bit of a hard ask.

1000
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:50.460
But, you know, Kate is absolutely selling it, isn't she?

1001
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.920
with the reaction shot that we just saw.

1002
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.519
The camera angles in this are terrific.

1003
00:43:56.579 --> 00:43:57.900
Did you see them?

1004
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.840
When she came in, it was shot from below with the 2 guys with the

1005
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:05.099
rifles. and she just walked between them looking badass as hell.

1006
00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:10.739
But, and like here where he's isolated and impotent, you know, like

1007
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:13.260
he's behind the force field in Sick Bay and he can't do anything

1008
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:17.400
and he's small suddenly, like against a big background, whereas

1009
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:18.780
before he was always looming.

1010
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.039
See how small he is?

1011
00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:23.039
Janeway's bigger than him in the 2 shot there.

1012
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:28.860
I don't think she realises this, but when Jerry is brought in.

1013
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.760
There's more gristle in Kate's performance.

1014
00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:36.360
She gets a bit angrier and a bit more forethought.

1015
00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:40.500
You watch her in one to 3 and there is a, there's more sensitivity

1016
00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:44.219
in her performance and she suddenly becomes a bit more kick-ass

1017
00:44:44.219 --> 00:44:46.800
from series 4 onwards, but I do.

1018
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:49.320
I mean, I love a kick ass woman, especially when it's Kate

1019
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:50.039
Mulgrew.

1020
00:44:50.099 --> 00:44:51.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1021
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:54.360
But I also think that there is like, I thought that she felt, she

1022
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:59.579
looked stricken at the, at the plight of 8472 and properly sold

1023
00:44:59.579 --> 00:44:59.880
that.

1024
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:06.000
Now we're going to get, so 7 of 9, they need 7 of 9's help to get

1025
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:06.719
at home.

1026
00:45:06.780 --> 00:45:10.079
And so that's, you know, that, which is great.

1027
00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:11.039
Do you know what I mean?

1028
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:14.340
Like give her, that's how you give her the choice.

1029
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:18.179
You know, and and Janeway just orders her an overrun.

1030
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:21.239
Unfortunately, instead of Janeway just saying, you know what?

1031
00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:22.619
This is what we do.

1032
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:23.400
This is what we're about.

1033
00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:28.739
She gives some half ass backstory now about some mission that she

1034
00:45:28.739 --> 00:45:32.340
went on and the most thing I was most proud of was the thing I

1035
00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:34.559
pushed against in the mission, you know, what are you talking

1036
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:34.739
about?

1037
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.780
It's unbelievably bad.

1038
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:41.039
So they're being attacked by Cardassians, right?

1039
00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:46.019
And there's one Cardassian who's horribly injured and is not armed

1040
00:45:46.019 --> 00:45:48.840
and they hear him, and they go and rescue him.

1041
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:54.119
And like, it's kind of like, and I felt so good about not

1042
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:58.019
committing a war crime that day, and that's really all that she

1043
00:45:58.019 --> 00:45:58.800
can come up with.

1044
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:05.280
Like, it's not that that this thing is like us and it's scared and

1045
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:07.139
it's not trying to hurt anyone.

1046
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.860
And maybe in some other circumstance, we'd have to defend

1047
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:11.880
ourselves against it.

1048
00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:14.219
But it's not like us.

1049
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:17.460
This is their only language, though, at the moment, isn't it?

1050
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:19.559
is to give these terrible backstories.

1051
00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:20.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1052
00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:22.920
To try and inform the decisions that they're making.

1053
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:26.340
Instead of just saying, you know, yeah, this is who we are, this

1054
00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:28.260
is what we do, this is what we should do.

1055
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:29.579
Yes.

1056
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.880
I think Kurtzman Trek is more direct about that stuff.

1057
00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:33.719
Yeah.

1058
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:36.599
And that's one of the things that I really appreciate about

1059
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:37.500
Kurtzman Trek.

1060
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.019
I don't think Braga is sold by that stuff.

1061
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:43.320
Like he'd much, you know, because Janeway spends most of her time

1062
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:45.539
fighting aliens in the Delta Quadrant.

1063
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.800
She doesn't often make alliances, but, you know, the aliens are

1064
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.260
always rotters and they're always intransient and stuff.

1065
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:57.719
And, you know, she rarely gets to find aliens that she can make

1066
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:59.519
alliances with and then she's gone.

1067
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:01.619
There are plenty.

1068
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:03.119
She just never chooses to do it.

1069
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.619
Yeah.

1070
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:05.159
Yeah.

1071
00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:07.079
Well, she does this, the trade.

1072
00:47:07.139 --> 00:47:10.619
Did we take the Mickey out of the big ugly tree for nothing?

1073
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:12.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1074
00:47:12.300 --> 00:47:13.500
What did we learn nothing?

1075
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:16.739
Is the night we saved that man's life?

1076
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:18.000
So she's got nothing.

1077
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:18.960
Do you know what I mean?

1078
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:22.739
act of compassion, she says. you know, please.

1079
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:25.019
Like, and it made her feel good.

1080
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:27.599
Like that's what that's the reason for doing it.

1081
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:28.980
Did she say that?

1082
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:32.579
you are attempting to justify your present position with some

1083
00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:33.719
bullshit backstory.

1084
00:47:33.780 --> 00:47:36.059
Jack Wait goes, yes, I am.

1085
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:36.480
Exactly.

1086
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.380
Yeah.

1087
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.619
No, and then she goes, no, if you're not going to listen to that.

1088
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:42.599
I'm telling you as your captain, I'm in charge.

1089
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:43.679
Go and do it anyway.

1090
00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:48.360
But she can't articulate what the issue is and that's really

1091
00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:52.619
really important because what would have been good is if she'd

1092
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:56.579
said that stuff about compassion and about identifying with 8472

1093
00:47:56.579 --> 00:48:00.599
and, you know, wanting to help it ends at suffering and stuff.

1094
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:02.159
And it was going to leave.

1095
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.440
It wasn't going to stay here and destroy things.

1096
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:05.519
It was going to go away.

1097
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:08.099
Hello, Nathan.

1098
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:12.239
She goes, unless and compassion won't do me any good if I'm dead.

1099
00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:16.079
At least, at least they've got one character that is pushing

1100
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:17.219
against the cliches.

1101
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:18.900
Yeah, which I do appreciate.

1102
00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:25.619
No, but, but the problem is that, that she is rebelling against

1103
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:31.679
something as limp and dismal as Janeway's reasoning behind why you

1104
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:33.420
would be nice to 8472.

1105
00:48:33.539 --> 00:48:35.219
Passion for a Cardassian.

1106
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:36.659
It makes you feel better.

1107
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:37.920
Do you know what I mean?

1108
00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:38.940
That's why we do it.

1109
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.300
It makes us feel better about ourselves and that's pathetic.

1110
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:44.519
I want 7 to say that she's scared.

1111
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.039
Species 8472 terrify me because of what I saw them do to the

1112
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:50.400
Borg.

1113
00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:54.059
And yeah, what she actually says is you're making tactically

1114
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:58.679
unsound decisions, but I think I think that making her visibly

1115
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:04.320
scared is a mistake at this point, and she's already said what

1116
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.420
destruction they're capable of.

1117
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:10.800
And so all of this pushing back is 7's way of being scared.

1118
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:12.659
This is how she's scared.

1119
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:13.800
She's not going to tremble.

1120
00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:15.000
She's not going to bite her nails.

1121
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:16.139
She is not going to say I'm scared.

1122
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:19.320
She's going to say, this is very dangerous and I refuse to

1123
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:21.179
participate in it, and I think that's pretty good.

1124
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.539
When they get there, though, and they allow her to say things like

1125
00:49:24.539 --> 00:49:24.960
I'm scared.

1126
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:27.420
Yeah, Jerry's so fun yet. so well.

1127
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:32.039
Do you know, Alan Eastman did something very good there.

1128
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:35.159
He didn't cut away from the scene when 7 walks out.

1129
00:49:35.219 --> 00:49:40.380
He then went to K and had her blink back tears. that she was so

1130
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:44.579
angry and frustrated and and you actually got to see an emotional

1131
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:46.019
reaction without dialogue.

1132
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:48.900
It was only half a second, but I appreciate it.

1133
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.239
I think they give that to Kate all the time.

1134
00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:54.360
I actually thought it was just Kate being, oh, fuck this shit

1135
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:54.659
again.

1136
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.079
Like, I just thought that was probably, that was probably Kate a

1137
00:49:58.079 --> 00:49:59.460
little bit more than it was Catherine.

1138
00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:04.199
She's like, you know, I can't work with this actress, all right?

1139
00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:04.559
Okay.

1140
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:06.360
That's right, she's fortunate.

1141
00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:09.480
Would you please give me one shot to show just how frustrated I am

1142
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:09.960
this season?

1143
00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:16.380
What I really appreciate, though, is that Kate does get there.

1144
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:21.360
And what's sad is when she does, which is, I think, well, series 6

1145
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.699
that's when Jerry's dating Brandon Bragger at that point.

1146
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.980
So the game's like, fuck us.

1147
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:26.880
I still need a job.

1148
00:50:26.940 --> 00:50:30.599
I better get on with her. is that they start doing less

1149
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:33.719
interesting things with Seven's character at that point, which is

1150
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.579
frustrating, but here we go.

1151
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.460
Look at it towering over the doctor.

1152
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:41.400
I mean, not that you see it.

1153
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:43.440
You just see that the doctor...

1154
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.000
Oh, well done.

1155
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:45.960
Alan Eastman.

1156
00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:48.179
Oh my God, surrounded by ships.

1157
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.059
We've done the typical, you know, lasers firing about the place.

1158
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.820
It's it's really fun.

1159
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:54.900
It is really great.

1160
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:59.760
Yeah, and I do like that she's refused, but then she obeys

1161
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:00.539
immediately.

1162
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.599
So it's not, no, I'm just going to sulk.

1163
00:51:03.659 --> 00:51:08.280
You know, like she will contribute, but she is refusing to

1164
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.780
cooperate with this particular decision.

1165
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:14.519
If I don't think that the arguments are well sculpted or robust

1166
00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:19.920
enough or even make much sense, I just do like the tension

1167
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:20.039
though.

1168
00:51:20.099 --> 00:51:20.639
I do too.

1169
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:24.179
And I think they act it really well, even if even if the substance

1170
00:51:24.179 --> 00:51:27.599
isn't there in the dialogue, the pair of them act the frustration

1171
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:29.219
and the anger, you will.

1172
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.860
And we just don't get that on Voyager.

1173
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:32.699
No.

1174
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:37.920
And I think that it's resolved a little bit too easily because, you

1175
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:38.699
know, resolved in this one.

1176
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:43.980
No, so it does get a mention next week, but then it's the killing

1177
00:51:43.980 --> 00:51:46.860
game and then all... revolved because they're playing different

1178
00:51:46.860 --> 00:51:47.639
people next week.

1179
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:48.719
Yeah.

1180
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:50.099
Yeah, no, not next week.

1181
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.500
There's another episode before the killing game, I think.

1182
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:53.280
Is there?

1183
00:51:53.340 --> 00:51:54.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1184
00:51:55.019 --> 00:51:55.980
I can't remember what it is.

1185
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:57.179
Oh, another Hirogen episode.

1186
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:58.679
No, no, no.

1187
00:51:58.739 --> 00:52:01.500
It's not a Hirogen episode, and then the Hirogen appeared.

1188
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:04.380
Like, give them a weakness or something like that is it?

1189
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.059
No, I can't remember.

1190
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:07.380
I can't remember.

1191
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.059
Oh my god, did you see that?

1192
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.679
What was it?

1193
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:14.940
Tony Todd just shot that extra in the back and he did the worst

1194
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:19.920
fall you're ever gonna see. and decided to slide down the wall

1195
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:21.780
because he wasn't going to fall on the floor.

1196
00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:27.360
It was really not as good as seal those doors, woman.

1197
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.099
Pretty bad.

1198
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:30.420
She's amazing.

1199
00:52:32.940 --> 00:52:35.099
Oh, look at him now.

1200
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.260
I've seen that look a 1000 times.

1201
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:38.820
Stand aside.

1202
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:41.219
Yeah, yeah.

1203
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:42.179
Oh my god.

1204
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:46.260
There's even subtitles for 8472 snarling fiercely.

1205
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:51.239
But so we're about we watch some.

1206
00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.019
They're fighting.

1207
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:55.079
Yeah, it doesn't quite work, does it?

1208
00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:56.400
I think there's more.

1209
00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:01.559
There is more of it, but it is a proper attempt to, you know, like

1210
00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:05.219
um, integrate them into the environment.

1211
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:09.059
Look, I mean, look, when, sort of, Tony, if you could just get on

1212
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:12.900
the floor and you're wrestling with a CGI dinosaur right now

1213
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:13.679
okay?

1214
00:53:13.739 --> 00:53:15.239
that works okay.

1215
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:20.159
It's only a very short shot before they beam out, but it is him

1216
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:24.119
wrestling and integrated into that scene. and that's not something

1217
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:26.460
that they really properly attempted before.

1218
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:27.599
I thought that was worth doing.

1219
00:53:27.659 --> 00:53:29.760
And it is a bit of a set piece.

1220
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:31.199
Like it's a little bit of a challenge, I think.

1221
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:34.320
You know the whole thing with 7 making the decision at the end and

1222
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:35.880
Janeway being furious about that.

1223
00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:37.559
They do do that in DSA.

1224
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:39.059
I don't know if you remember the reckoning.

1225
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:43.980
And the end of that episode is the par rafe in in Jake and the

1226
00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:47.940
profit in Kira fighting on the promenade sort of this celestial

1227
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:51.480
battle. very cheaply done on the promenade case.

1228
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:57.420
But the dramatic conceit is that Kai Wynn comes in and makes the

1229
00:53:57.420 --> 00:54:00.840
choice that Cisco couldn't and saves Jake and says, no, I'm not

1230
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:01.559
going to let this happen.

1231
00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:05.639
So she stops the prophet from killing the par wraith.

1232
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:09.480
And then it has huge consequences for the next season because the

1233
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:10.440
par race is still there.

1234
00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:15.059
So, you know, some shows can do this stuff and there are genuine

1235
00:54:15.059 --> 00:54:16.500
consequences later.

1236
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.719
Yeah, no, this doesn't really want to do that.

1237
00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:22.500
By the way, I did look it up and you're right, it is VR V.

1238
00:54:22.619 --> 00:54:25.260
Oh, it's a Tom Paris episode next week.

1239
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:28.320
We can promise it won't be as exciting as this one.

1240
00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:30.659
That was a beautiful shot, you know.

1241
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:32.099
It was on cherry and the thing.

1242
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:34.980
It came round and Kate was just standing in silhouette in the

1243
00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:36.659
doorway. really good, isn't it?

1244
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.679
And even just the way the camera follows Janeway, she walks away

1245
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:42.659
from 7 while she's in the alcove.

1246
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.739
I really thought this was beautifully acted this scene between the

1247
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:47.280
2 of them.

1248
00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:52.260
And because because we can't reach any kind of a conclusion.

1249
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:56.639
Like, she's basically saying, I need you, but I'm stripping you of

1250
00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:59.039
everything I possibly can to punish you.

1251
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:01.440
And then you think that's it.

1252
00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:04.320
And then 7 comes in, doesn't she, at the last minute with a

1253
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:04.920
riposte.

1254
00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:07.860
Yeah, yeah. yep.

1255
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:09.300
Like, I think it's good.

1256
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:10.559
I do think it's good.

1257
00:55:10.619 --> 00:55:12.780
And I do like the, you know, like I'm not here to debate it.

1258
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:15.300
I'm just telling you what the consequences are and that's great.

1259
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:18.420
You know, um, you've got something here.

1260
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:19.739
Why didn't you keep doing this?

1261
00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:20.940
Yeah, yeah.

1262
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:22.139
Yeah.

1263
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:26.820
Again, the show can't quite sustain this because they're just not

1264
00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:27.840
being episodic.

1265
00:55:27.900 --> 00:55:32.460
I mean, remember that that ridiculous Paris is a mutineer kind of

1266
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:37.440
Paris is being a prick thing from series 2, is it series 2, in

1267
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.840
order to flush out our villain or whatever?

1268
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:42.480
It reminds me, do you know what it reminds me of?

1269
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:43.739
The end of that episode.

1270
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.860
Do you remember when Odo betrays Kira when the Dominion are on the

1271
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:47.159
station?

1272
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:51.599
And then Kira comes steaming down the corridor and says to him, you

1273
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:53.340
know, we are way past. sorry.

1274
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:54.900
Yeah, yeah.

1275
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.639
And but again, they deal with the consequences.

1276
00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:00.179
Yeah.

1277
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.280
It's just a different show, isn't it?

1278
00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:03.900
It's a show that doesn't do it.

1279
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.500
It is a shame.

1280
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:06.300
But yes, it's this repost.

1281
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:09.179
It is, it would be more interesting if we knew what she was

1282
00:56:09.179 --> 00:56:13.019
rebelling again. said he's played or written as if she's a

1283
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:17.039
teenager. you know, like I'm growing up into something that you

1284
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:18.960
don't want me to grow into.

1285
00:56:19.019 --> 00:56:20.760
No, I do too.

1286
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:21.840
The idea of that.

1287
00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:25.500
I do too, because it happens to people. you know what I mean?

1288
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:28.199
Whose teenage children grow up into something they don't want them

1289
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:29.159
to be, you know?

1290
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:32.699
And they really lean into and, you know, she's a woman, so they

1291
00:56:32.699 --> 00:56:35.579
lean into the fact that Janeway's the mother here and she's the

1292
00:56:35.579 --> 00:56:36.480
child.

1293
00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:37.440
Yeah.

1294
00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:39.900
And like Janeway, this lands.

1295
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:40.860
Do you know what I mean?

1296
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:43.500
Like, look at look at Kate's reaction to this stuff.

1297
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.739
But the way she delivers that line as you were.

1298
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:49.320
She goes, and she walks.

1299
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:50.340
That's right.

1300
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:53.280
It's just, I'm not engaging with this, but I think it hits.

1301
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:55.079
I think she plays it.

1302
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:57.900
If she looked at me like that, I would wither.

1303
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.280
Jesus Christ.

1304
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.900
K-Ochral, you are fucking terrifying, right?

1305
00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:04.860
You want to be.

1306
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:05.880
So good.

1307
00:57:05.940 --> 00:57:06.539
So good.

1308
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.300
That was a really good episode, I think.

1309
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:10.500
I think it was really fun.

1310
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:16.500
I know it didn't quite get there with the reasoning in the debate

1311
00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:20.940
but as an episode of Voyager as an action adventure, I thought it

1312
00:57:20.940 --> 00:57:21.599
was really exciting.

1313
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:26.340
As a Hirogan episode, it told us something about, oh, it told us a

1314
00:57:26.340 --> 00:57:27.960
lot about them in all that exposition.

1315
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.900
Oh, the next episode has started.

1316
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:31.800
It looks very boring.

1317
00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:35.940
Oh, Tom Barris.

1318
00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:41.400
As a as a Janeway 7 episode, though, in this sort of continuing

1319
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:43.739
story they're doing for out four.

1320
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:45.420
It sort of stops in five.

1321
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:50.579
But in four, it's, you know, she starts for as a Borg drone and

1322
00:57:50.579 --> 00:57:52.860
she ends for, what is it, hope and fear?

1323
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.119
Yeah, which is a 7 episode and does centre on that relationship

1324
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:01.079
between 7 and Janeway, in a way, this season is about that.

1325
00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:03.840
And so then they move on from it in five.

1326
00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:07.260
But I actually secretly quite like hope and fear.

1327
00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:08.940
I don't know that everyone else does.

1328
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:13.199
Well, I think as an episode of Voyager, it's quite boring.

1329
00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:17.039
It's another ship that comes along and revenge tactics and all of

1330
00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:17.820
this boring stuff.

1331
00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:23.460
But as a 7 as a character piece, it reaches conclusions about a

1332
00:58:23.460 --> 00:58:24.420
character journey.

1333
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:27.659
I mean, we don't have character journeys on Voyager.

1334
00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:30.840
So the fact that we're reaching some conclusions at the end of a

1335
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:33.539
season long character arc.

1336
00:58:33.659 --> 00:58:34.920
It's something of a miracle.

1337
00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:38.219
It also takes us back to Scorpion, doesn't it?

1338
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:43.440
Because it's, um, you know, the revenge thing is motivated by, uh

1339
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:47.880
what Janeway did negotiating with the Borg and are lying with them

1340
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:49.260
against 8472.

1341
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:53.460
Like that's why that person goes back and tries to drop them back

1342
00:58:53.460 --> 00:58:54.900
into Borg space.

1343
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:57.000
And of course, it's got a beautiful set.

1344
00:58:57.059 --> 00:58:57.900
I love that set.

1345
00:58:57.960 --> 00:58:59.460
So I'm a sucker for that.

1346
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:05.579
Pray reminds me that, and I still think that 4 and 5 is basically

1347
00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:09.960
where Voyager is at his strongest, and don't, don't get me wrong.

1348
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:14.159
There are still, at least half of those seasons are...

1349
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.739
Average to poor.

1350
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:22.260
But the other half, I think they've got a drive to them, they're

1351
00:59:22.260 --> 00:59:27.599
buoyed by the fact that Jerry Ryan has joined the crew, um, that

1352
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:29.519
makes everybody else up their game.

1353
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:33.480
Interestingly, it's exactly when DS9 went through the same sort of

1354
00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:37.260
Renaissance in series 4 when they brought in Worf and all the

1355
00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:40.079
dynamics shifted and it was really exciting because of it.

1356
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:43.920
I've only they'd have done something with Roxanne's pregnancy

1357
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:44.099
though.

1358
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.920
You know, that would have been quite fun. but never mind.

1359
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:50.519
I think that they could only really do that on Deep Space 9 where

1360
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:51.480
no one's really looking.

1361
00:59:51.539 --> 00:59:55.739
I think in the kind of big flagship show that might have been a

1362
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:59.340
little bit too far, but it is great.

1363
00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:00.599
It was a pretty great decision.

1364
01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:02.940
It's great when they hang a lantern on it.

1365
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:03.480
Do you remember?

1366
01:00:03.539 --> 01:00:07.920
He goes, well, I beamed the baby from Keiko to Kira and someone

1367
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:09.119
goes, can you do that?

1368
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:10.199
Okay.

1369
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.739
So great.

1370
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:18.480
And then, of course, you know, the said joke, this is still your

1371
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:19.019
fault.

1372
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:19.860
My fault.

1373
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.360
Sorry, I'm talking about D.S. Knight again.

1374
01:00:24.420 --> 01:00:25.079
I can't help it.

1375
01:00:25.139 --> 01:00:25.920
I love that show.

1376
01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:29.280
No, no, no, but praise a very good episode of Voyager, I think.

1377
01:00:29.579 --> 01:00:35.579
And it's certainly top five, I think, from series four. just a

1378
01:00:35.579 --> 01:00:37.019
really a really good watch.

1379
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:38.340
Yeah.

1380
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.380
Well, I watched Hunters and praise.

1381
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:44.280
So if you weren't watching along with us, dear listener, then you

1382
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:47.760
should go immediately and watch hunters and then pray because I

1383
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:51.960
think they're 2 pretty great episodes, that dovetail and that are

1384
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:53.219
both good in quite different ways.

1385
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.340
Although why they didn't run with the letters.

1386
01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:58.980
I mean, for God's sakes, what is wrong with you people?

1387
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:03.119
However, I won't say that Voyager can't hang a lantern on its own

1388
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:08.340
terrible decisions because in season 7 or for author, where Harry

1389
01:01:08.340 --> 01:01:12.179
finally gets a conversation with his mother.

1390
01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:18.000
She turns up on the screen and goes, you get Captain Janeway on

1391
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:18.780
the screen now.

1392
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:20.940
I want to find out why you're still an ensign.

1393
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:25.260
Awesome.

1394
01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:35.880
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1395
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:37.679
work out where we're going next.

1396
01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:42.119
You had control of the randomiser last time.

1397
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:45.119
Superb choice. with Max.

1398
01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:50.280
And so I'm going to bring balance back to the force. by getting us

1399
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:53.099
to watch an episode of Star Trek Enterprise.

1400
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:58.320
To be fair, it's been a while since you pulled this shit.

1401
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:00.539
Okay.

1402
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:06.239
It's literally the least covered episode, the one that we are kind

1403
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:10.320
of behind. only time we're ever going to watch it because I'm

1404
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:11.460
certainly never going to choose it.

1405
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:13.320
I have to pick it.

1406
01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:15.239
I get to sing the song and everything.

1407
01:02:15.300 --> 01:02:15.840
It's great.

1408
01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:17.159
So we're definitely doing it.

1409
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:20.940
However, I feel like a caveat should be made before you press the

1410
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:21.480
button.

1411
01:02:21.539 --> 01:02:21.840
Okay.

1412
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.800
It should be a one or 2 because we've done a lot of 3 and 4 now.

1413
01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:29.820
And I know we like we like 4 because it's the one time when

1414
01:02:29.820 --> 01:02:31.079
Enterprise is actually okay.

1415
01:02:32.460 --> 01:02:36.599
I can't be stuck with all the season one episodes at the end of

1416
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:37.199
this run.

1417
01:02:37.260 --> 01:02:38.280
Yeah.

1418
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:39.960
Sometimes in 2040.

1419
01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:43.139
We've just got seasons one or 2 left.

1420
01:02:43.139 --> 01:02:44.039
And that's all.

1421
01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:47.219
It becomes a season one and 2 of Enterprise podcast.

1422
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.199
I'll tell what I'm going to do as well.

1423
01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:52.980
I'm going to pull up our friend jammer and I'm going to read you

1424
01:02:52.980 --> 01:02:56.099
the synopsis because obviously we ain't going to have a clue what

1425
01:02:56.099 --> 01:02:56.579
they're all about.

1426
01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:58.679
Absolutely we're not. when you do it.

1427
01:02:58.739 --> 01:02:59.820
Give me just one moment, please.

1428
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.019
Okay.

1429
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:04.199
All right, I'm going to press the button then.

1430
01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:10.380
Uh, Season one, episode 11 cold front.

1431
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:14.699
Cold Front, as the Enterprise Place host, visitors on a religious

1432
01:03:14.699 --> 01:03:15.300
retreat.

1433
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:15.960
Uh-oh.

1434
01:03:16.019 --> 01:03:20.699
Archer is made aware of the Sulaban intruder who may be part of a

1435
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:23.219
conspiracy waged from centuries in the future.

1436
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:26.159
So how many Bams does he give it?

1437
01:03:26.219 --> 01:03:27.179
Three stars.

1438
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:28.320
It's 3 stars.

1439
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.760
Bam and a beer.

1440
01:03:29.820 --> 01:03:30.659
Oh, yeah.

1441
01:03:31.380 --> 01:03:32.880
Snap.

1442
01:03:32.940 --> 01:03:35.880
I don't want to do the 1st one now.

1443
01:03:35.940 --> 01:03:37.380
No, let's go again.

1444
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:39.119
That sounds too good actually.

1445
01:03:39.179 --> 01:03:40.440
Let's do something worse.

1446
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:46.619
Cold in the title again, but it's season four, episode five, cold

1447
01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:47.340
station 12.

1448
01:03:47.699 --> 01:03:49.679
So that is a pretty good episode.

1449
01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:51.239
Yeah, yeah.

1450
01:03:51.300 --> 01:03:53.639
Far too good for us.

1451
01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:54.239
I think so.

1452
01:03:55.139 --> 01:03:57.539
Oh, this is a possibility.

1453
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:01.800
Season two, episode 23 Regeneration.

1454
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:04.500
Is it the Borg episode?

1455
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:05.099
Yeah.

1456
01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:08.340
No, we can't do the good ones from series one.

1457
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:13.500
The whole point is we cover some of the bullshit, all right?

1458
01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:17.760
But we never do the good ones of one and 2 either.

1459
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:18.780
There are so few of them.

1460
01:04:18.900 --> 01:04:20.760
Is it good, is it?

1461
01:04:20.820 --> 01:04:22.079
I don't remember it.

1462
01:04:22.139 --> 01:04:25.079
He gives this a BEM and an extra star.

1463
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:26.400
3.5 stars.

1464
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:28.500
I really like regeneration.

1465
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:31.559
I don't think we should do that one.

1466
01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:32.460
Okay.

1467
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:35.940
The sequel to 1st contact really rather than a prequel to sort of

1468
01:04:35.940 --> 01:04:36.900
anything else, isn't it?

1469
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:37.860
Yeah, yeah.

1470
01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:40.559
Well, and, you know, we've got to the point where actually we can

1471
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:45.360
do the Borg on TV with a bit of dynamism, which is quite fun.

1472
01:04:45.420 --> 01:04:46.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1473
01:04:46.019 --> 01:04:48.599
Because of 1st contact, I guess.

1474
01:04:48.659 --> 01:04:49.500
They're in the snow.

1475
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:50.340
It's rather wonderful.

1476
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:50.880
Okay.

1477
01:04:50.940 --> 01:04:52.619
But no, come on.

1478
01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:53.460
Something terrible then.

1479
01:04:53.699 --> 01:04:55.679
Oh, here we go.

1480
01:04:55.739 --> 01:04:56.880
This is probably it.

1481
01:04:56.940 --> 01:05:00.420
Season one, episode 20, Oasis.

1482
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:02.159
Oasis.

1483
01:05:02.219 --> 01:05:06.719
The Enterprise crew contacts the marooned crew of a downed vessel

1484
01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:10.139
and begins suspecting the survivors are hiding a secret.

1485
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:12.840
That could be any episode of stuff.

1486
01:05:12.900 --> 01:05:16.320
It's nothing for you, but why would anyone choose that?

1487
01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:17.039
have to do it.

1488
01:05:17.099 --> 01:05:18.599
2.5 stars.

1489
01:05:18.659 --> 01:05:19.440
Oasis.

1490
01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:22.320
He says pleasant, but too familiar.

1491
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:23.940
Okay.

1492
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:25.380
Well, Oasis.

1493
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:26.880
I mean, I know nothing about it at all.

1494
01:05:26.940 --> 01:05:28.860
I must have seen it at some point.

1495
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.500
A 3rd of April 2002. can be anything.

1496
01:05:31.619 --> 01:05:32.699
Now, listen to this.

1497
01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.159
This is a little pretty from jammer here.

1498
01:05:35.219 --> 01:05:39.420
The cynic and me wants to say, been here, done this is beaten into

1499
01:05:39.420 --> 01:05:42.900
quasi-acceptance by the sentimental optimist.

1500
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:48.300
Oh, oh, that's a lot of work, to say, average.

1501
01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:50.039
Well, that's it.

1502
01:05:50.099 --> 01:05:53.280
It's kind of like him kind of going, oh, maybe enterprise will

1503
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:57.179
become good. but they have to decide to kind of blow it up at some

1504
01:05:57.179 --> 01:06:00.659
point a couple of years time in order to kind of fix it.

1505
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:05.579
I'm happy to do a mid-range episode of enterprise that I've never

1506
01:06:05.579 --> 01:06:06.000
seen before.

1507
01:06:06.059 --> 01:06:06.480
Why not?

1508
01:06:06.539 --> 01:06:09.179
That's why I pick up the bonus. thought that was all of them.

1509
01:06:09.239 --> 01:06:10.260
Oh, wait.

1510
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.019
Guest starring Renee Aubishonois.

1511
01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:14.219
Oh, okay, right.

1512
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:15.179
We're definitely on board.

1513
01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:17.460
That's okay. let's do that awesome.

1514
01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:29.940
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1515
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:33.780
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1516
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:36.119
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1517
01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:37.500
media accounts.

1518
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:40.739
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1519
01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:42.480
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1520
01:06:42.539 --> 01:06:47.039
This episode was recorded on the 28th of October 2025 and released

1521
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:49.019
on the 31st of October.

1522
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.860
We'll see you next time to Star Trek Enterprise, Rasis.

1523
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:12.179
Okay.

1524
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:19.320
I'm doing, um, Beyond the Sea with Mags O'Halliday tonight.

1525
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:20.880
God, that is so good.

1526
01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:25.679
It is just one of the best episodes they ever did and so early as

1527
01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:25.920
well.

1528
01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:29.400
So is that, that's the brother?

1529
01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:31.380
Her father dies or something?

1530
01:07:31.500 --> 01:07:32.820
Her father dies at the start, yeah.

1531
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:39.719
And then it's a serial killer, played by, of course, Brad Dorff

1532
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:41.940
but the single best performers.

1533
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:44.400
I think he's ever given, just so intense.

1534
01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:48.059
Um, and Mulder doesn't believe him.

1535
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:50.880
So that's that's sort of the hook for this episode is Mulder

1536
01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:54.840
doesn't believe, but because he is reaching out to her with things

1537
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:59.099
that her father used to say, and he's just died, that she does

1538
01:07:59.099 --> 01:08:00.599
believe, and he's like, why?

1539
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:01.260
why now?

1540
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:03.420
Scully, why now do you believe?

1541
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:09.360
And there's a bit where, you know, the serial killer's saying he

1542
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:14.400
can contact, he's sort of in psychic contact with the other serial

1543
01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:15.719
killer that's kidnapped these 2 kids.

1544
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:16.859
That's what they're going through.

1545
01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:23.699
And Mulder gives him the cloth from the guys, the victims that

1546
01:08:23.699 --> 01:08:27.239
he's got t-shirt that was sort of snagged on the car when he was

1547
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:30.779
kidnapped and he's sort of going, ah, and he's getting all this

1548
01:08:30.779 --> 01:08:32.579
stuff about where they are.

1549
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:37.140
And then Mulder goes, that is from our New York Yankees t-shirt.

1550
01:08:37.199 --> 01:08:41.100
It's got nothing to do with the case And then, so you're like, fuck

1551
01:08:41.100 --> 01:08:42.539
okay, so it's all a con.

1552
01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:46.439
And then Scully goes to walk out and he starts singing Beyond the

1553
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:48.539
Sea at the funeral.

1554
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:50.220
It's so chilling.

1555
01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:53.939
My blood run cold. and the look on Gillian Hanson's face.

1556
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.819
I mean, she is so good in it.

1557
01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:58.859
Oh, she's brilliant.

1558
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:00.239
I mean, she's straight ahead of him.

1559
01:09:00.300 --> 01:09:01.739
I like him a lot.

1560
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:04.859
Like I do like him a lot, but it was always a joke that he only

1561
01:09:04.859 --> 01:09:06.000
had the one facial expression.

1562
01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:10.619
That's the one where she redefines what you expect from the

1563
01:09:10.619 --> 01:09:11.699
regulars in that show.

1564
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:13.920
Oh, it's so great.

1565
01:09:13.979 --> 01:09:18.539
That's the one where she kicks away Jodie Foster's Clarice.

1566
01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:19.260
Yeah, okay.

1567
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:21.600
And totally, yeah. is Scully.

1568
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:22.920
Yeah, okay.

1569
01:09:22.979 --> 01:09:26.039
So what's how early is beyond the sea?

1570
01:09:26.100 --> 01:09:30.840
It's in the middle of the season, so it's... 13 something like

1571
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:31.020
that.

1572
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:34.920
It's the lowest single lowest rated episode of the X-filed ever

1573
01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:39.119
and it was the episode where basically the cancellation notice

1574
01:09:39.119 --> 01:09:42.539
came in and said this is just, and it's just so good.

1575
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:44.699
It's crazy.

1576
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:46.560
Ventilation, noticed. didn't know that.

1577
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:48.539
They cancelled the series, didn't they?

1578
01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:49.140
At the end of one.

1579
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:53.159
That's why one ends with deep throat being killed and the X-Files

1580
01:09:53.159 --> 01:09:53.699
being shut down.

1581
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:56.579
It was never supposed to reopen.

1582
01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:57.600
That was it.

1583
01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:00.239
That was a one and now, and then they got a reprieve.

1584
01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:01.920
It was basically the Doctor Who thing.

1585
01:10:01.979 --> 01:10:04.560
They just they had nothing else. couldn't think of anything else.

1586
01:10:04.619 --> 01:10:08.340
So they said, Chris, you've got another year to make it work. and

1587
01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:12.659
then Susan Terry's with it. it takes off. flew off because I

1588
01:10:12.659 --> 01:10:13.500
remember it at the time.

1589
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:15.779
You know, like I'm old enough to kind of actually remember

1590
01:10:15.779 --> 01:10:20.220
watching it as as it went out, like from that very beginning.

1591
01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:21.359
What's the one?

1592
01:10:21.539 --> 01:10:25.439
What's the one where it's a buried train?

1593
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:27.779
That's the end of two, Anasal, yeah.

1594
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:30.060
Yeah, that's what I thought because I was watching that with

1595
01:10:30.060 --> 01:10:30.779
Robert.

1596
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:35.579
You know, at our house, like when we were 1st living together and

1597
01:10:35.579 --> 01:10:38.159
getting that thing where it's like, oh, shit, they're not going to

1598
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:39.899
resolve this.

1599
01:10:39.899 --> 01:10:45.479
They're not going to solve this. train car. and it's just a pile

1600
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:46.920
of bottles everywhere.

1601
01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:48.000
Those visuals.

1602
01:10:48.060 --> 01:10:50.159
I mean, compare it to Star Trek.

1603
01:10:50.220 --> 01:10:51.300
Do you know what I mean?

1604
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.439
Just the imagination of the visuals and just the scale of it and

1605
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:56.699
the fact that they're outside all the time.

1606
01:10:56.760 --> 01:10:59.640
Half the time it's the lighting that does most of the work.

1607
01:10:59.699 --> 01:11:00.359
Yeah, yeah.

1608
01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:01.920
It's just so atmospheric.

1609
01:11:01.979 --> 01:11:04.800
Mark Snow always music. as well.

1610
01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:06.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1611
01:11:06.720 --> 01:11:10.319
So even in the dogs this season, the lighting has been exquisite.

1612
01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:12.420
Yeah, so good.