Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back this week with an episode of Star Trek Voyager.
It's season four, episode 16, Prey, and it's written by Brennan
Braga, and directed by Alan Eastman, who you will know from Honour
Among Thieves, Joe. Oh, that's very well directed, that episode.
And relativity.
So I watched Hunters because it's not quite part 2 of a two-parter
but it is the introduction of the Hirogen.
And so we get hunters, we get prey.
Then we get something else.
What happens after that?
I can't remember.
There's one episode and then we get the killing game parts one and
two.
So the Hunters and Prey are introducing the big band, I think, for
the big upcoming event episode towards the end of the season.
And I thought hunters were so good.
Like so good.
Hunters is great, but the problem with it is, is the Hirogen is
the most boring part of the episode.
And that's what they run with for the next 3 episodes.
Yeah, yeah.
So this was just sort of gently introducing the hirogen as a B
plot to an excellent A plot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You introduce your new big part as a B plot alongside an episode
that is about the premise of the show and then not run with the
premise of the show.
It's so good song.
I kind of like it because the Hirogen actually get introduced in
an earlier episode, don't they, the episode before where the array
of satellites that enables some message in a bottle, isn't it?
Oh, yeah, they're sort of on a screen just covered in static.
They're not definable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so we just introduced them super gradually.
And so we have message in a bottle, then we have hunters, and then
we have prey and prey means that the hierogen are kind of
established, they're not coming out of nowhere.
And I think prey is so well done.
Like, it's a pretty standard Voyager, but I just thought it was so
just thoroughly well done and so enjoyable that then they come
back for the killing game and they're already a proper established
big band.
I think it's well done.
There's something in the air in season four.
We've got the awkward season 3 out of the way.
You know, Jerry Taylor's handed the baton onto Brannenbraga and
Rick Berman and they brought in 7 of nine, which has given the
show a kick up the arse.
Scorpion, which is the single highest rated Voyager episode that
ever went out.
So they managed to actually get a bit of attention at the start of
the season, for all the right reasons, because they put out
something good, um, and introduced something great.
There's friction behind the scenes because Jerry Ryan has joined
the show and Kate Mulgrew is not happy.
And what I love about this is she's very happy to talk about this
now, and she's very happy to talk about how she behaved and how
she didn't give Jerry Ryan the help that she needed, and how Jerry
Ryan admits that this was a really miserable time for her, that
she was trying to do good work, and she wasn't welcomed into this
family.
There's always stressing what a family voyager is, you know, behind
the scenes and in front of the camera.
It's a family, as long as somebody young and pretty doesn't come
along, you know.
Yeah, and rock the boat a bit.
I think, and it's just a suspicion, I think that Brannan is savvy
enough to see what's happening, and he's like, we can put a bit of
that in the show, actually, because there's a scene at the end of
prey between Mulgrew and Ryan, and there's no acting required
whatsoever. where they are literally, oh, but getting their claws
out at each other.
And Janeway's last line of as you were.
It could basically be Mulgrew going, yeah, fuck you and walking
off.
I mean, it fucking sizzles in a way that Voyager rarely.
The character interactions on Voyager rarely sizzle like this.
But on another level...
I just thought this had an urgency and a drive and some visual
ambition to it. that, again, I don't think Voyager, like you look
at the rest of the episodes this season, they're not sort of doing
Predator.
They're doing boring technobabble mysteries like they normally
do.
Next week we're doing, what is it, Nazis?
Hello, hello in the holodeck.
I know it's fun, but it is just boring normal Star Trek.
I think it has a scale to it, though.
I mean, it is a kind of, you know, like a late season 2 parter.
And I do think that those tend to be pretty interesting and that
they do kind of ramp things up.
I mean, we've done the killing game.
I think it could have been one though.
That there's enough story for one in those 2 episodes.
Yeah.
But what I like about it is that the status quo has changed by the
time the episode starts and that the hirogen have been made a big
enough big bad to support that, to make that credible.
It's not just the bomar have taken over and we've got to get the
ship back.
What a record of this, isn't it?
Because they're introduced in a B plot.
And then they get one episode where they're shown to be, you know
aggressive hunters and then we have a fun two-parter on the
holiday with them.
And then we never see them again.
We never see them again.
What is wrong with this show?
I mean, I was watching this going, there's some potential here
right?
They're visually interesting.
You've brought in a great actor to play the lead Hirogen in this
Tony Todd, right?
You clearly know you're onto something.
Why then do you ditch it and go back to mystery of the week
episodes?
I don't get it.
Why did DS9 learn this stuff?
Learn, oh my god, Jeffrey Coombes is way in.
He's amazing.
Oh, whoops, we've killed him off.
We'll turn him into a clone and we'll give him 2.5 seasons to
dazzle us.
Why is it DS9 can do that?
And Voyager goes, we've done it.
What's next?
I think it's partly the premise, and I think at this point, you
know, they realise that the Kazon thing was a bit ridiculous, you
know, where they could be travelling home for kind of a season and
a half, but Marge Carla could catch up with me.
Yeah, don't make no sense, but it's a more interesting show that
they show consequences.
Sure.
But what they're trying to do, I think, is, you know, trying new
aliens out and they rarely work.
But, like, that's a fun thing to try and do.
I don't think that what they're deciding to do is the problem.
I just think golf and they don't manage to pull it off.
But here, I think they do manage to pull it off. really well.
And they use the show's own mythology to help build up. hirogen.
Well, that idea of bringing together 2 things they've established
separately, Species 8472, and now the Hirogen and bringing them
together, that is so not Star Trek Voyager.
It's very refreshing.
And it's cleverly done as well.
This episode surprised me.
I had seen it before, but not for decades.
And the episode did actually manage to surprise me a couple of
times and it doesn't end up where you think it's going to end up.
I do have a couple of criticisms and I think there's one that is a
very kind of Brannan Braga problem about the kind of ethical
dilemma.
Oh, it doesn't reach a conclusion at all.
It doesn't need to do that, but it doesn't even say what the
stakes are, I think, properly.
But it is very Star Trek, to bring 8472 back and they're
implacably evil.
Remember, they're much, much eviler than the Borga.
Well, until in the flesh, when they're not even anymore, and we're
doing diplomacy with them in the shape of human beings.
What?
But here, here we have pity for them.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's still a killer.
It's still super dangerous, but it's vulnerable and we don't want
to give it over to the Rogan to be killed and eviscerated.
And like that's very Star Treky, I think.
You know, like expanding your kind of moral horizons.
You actually owe 8472 something morally.
You, you need to treat them well.
It's obligatory to do that, even though in other circumstances, you
might have to use lethal force in self-defence against them.
I thought that was pretty good.
And that's properly Star Trek, but I don't think Braga has it in
him to sell what the real issues are there.
We'll talk about it later.
I like, and I think it's a weakness, but I think it's a weakness
that works that there's ambiguity to 7's reaction to it as well.
We don't really land on why she objects so much.
I mean, she says this because they are evil and all this.
But like I was like, is she scared?
Is she angry?
Does she just not understand?
Jane Way's morality.
Like, we don't land on anything.
And Jerry plays it in a way that any one of those readings could
possibly be true.
I quite like that.
Oh yeah, no, no.
But I do think the problem is that Janeway doesn't know why she
has to why she has to rescue.
Bran doesn't know.
And so Janeway can't make a proper point.
And so Jerry has nothing to react against.
Like, if it was about compassion and if it was about what we owe
to each other, then Seven's rebelling interestingly about
something that's foundational to Star Trek.
And that would be interesting.
As it is, we just get a sort of petulant child.
I'm growing up now and I'm not growing up the way you like.
And so you're being mean to me.
And so that's not as interesting as I reject the premise of your
kind of moral reasoning, which is much scarier.
And of course, it's never going to land.
You know, it'll get mentioned next week and then we'll never talk
of it again.
They do explore that a bit, though.
I think you're underselling that a little bit because the whole
I'm not becoming what you want me to become.
Oh, I think that's really interesting because Janeway has a set of
expectations.
We've saved you and we've absorbed you into this crew and we
expect you to behave in a certain way.
And her reaction of, well, no, I didn't ask for this.
You chose for me to be like this.
And now you're expecting me to be who you want me to be and I like
her pushing against that because we don't do any of that in
Voyager at all.
You know, we...
It's in the premise.
We could have done it with the McKee.
A terrorist crew. episode 2 just went, well, I suppose we'll all
be Starfleet then, you know.
Just put the uniforms on then.
I do like that.
And I like the fact that 7 never really quite gets to be who
Janeway wanted her to be because she's got her own mind and it's
Jerry playing it.
So of course, she's vivid and interesting and engaging in all
kinds of ways.
So there's stuff happening in this season.
That's really interesting.
I think we do abandon most of it come next year, but it's
happening now, so we might as well enjoy it, you know?
What do you think?
Should we go in?
Let's do it.
Yes.
Watch Kate and Jerry sizzle.
All right. 5, 4, 32, one, and we're off.
It's the bathroom story that always gets me, Nathan.
When she needed her loan.
She needed the low, Jerry.
And Kate said, no, she's not getting out of that costume.
You can hold it until the end of the scene.
Oh wow.
So here we have Tony Todd as the main hirogen. and one of the
things...
So Tony Todd is so good in this.
And again, he's just an excellent guest star, and this is another
Star Trek episode that relies on an excellent guest star.
And his performance up against this other guy who is really shit
like really terrible.
Also deliberate, right?
Let's make him look really true.
So Tony Todd.
Like you said to me kind of earlier on in the chat, that he's
absolutely refusing to play it like a space alien and he's playing
it like per times.
He's like, give me my weapon.
He's awesome.
He's really fun.
Whereas the other guy is just doing space alien voice.
Do you know what I mean?
And space alien intonation.
There's 2 in hunters. as well.
They're just terrible.
They've got and they've got this sort of filter over their voices
that make them sound like Androids in Hunters because they're
wearing the masks.
Oh yes, of course.
So there's no performance at all, whereas you don't get Tony Todd
in and say, don't give a performance.
Yeah, yeah.
He did say that the these were kind of the most challenging
prestige. stroke fat gun, the same way I stroke my dildos, look.
Oh, my God.
Oh my god.
That's eye watering.
Look at the size of that garden.
Oh, I was getting worried here, you know, when they were sort of
painting his hair thing and they were bringing in the sort of
Native American drums.
I was like, no, don't do that.
Please don't do that.
It's that specialist who's back again from series two.
Oh no, don't do that.
See, I loved all of this.
Now, do you remember the episode with the dinosaur people?
in series three.
You know, the...
Yeah, and the whole of the opening pre-title sequence is just from
their point of view, finding Hogan or something.
Hogan in a tunnel and then a basic planet.
They find Voyager at the end of the pre-time.
Well, this is doing something similar.
I think Braga wrote that one as well, you know.
I like this.
Yeah, what I think is really super interesting is this is, um, like
it's introducing the Hirogen and we are, it's their point of view
isn't it?
So it's the Hirogen's point of view.
And so you put them up against Species 8472.
And you know how I say it's at the end of the teaser that you find
out what the episode's about.
I think this episode lies to you and makes you think that it's
going to be about a thing when it doesn't end up being about that
thing.
And it's not entirely clear initially who's going to come out on
top out of Species 8472 and the Hirogen.
There's no Voyager at all in the pre-toll sequence.
No, it makes me think I'm going to watch an episode of Star Trek
Herogen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it so it looks like they're scarier than the herogen.
I mean, the hierogen are scarier than 8472.
And while that ends up being true at the end of the episode
doesn't it?
It's because this is a kill, do you know what I mean?
Like they've effortlessly beaten the 8472, but that ends up not
being what has happened.
And so when we come back, it's still alive.
I'm going to stop making these comparisons, I promise.
But that sort of close-up on Tony Todd there, where he sort of
puffed his chest out and went, a flawless kill.
It's sort of the way I do, you know, when I'll satisfy someone
great.
That was, yeah, a great shag.
It was just not playing the alpha male at all in this.
He refuses to do it.
He goes, no, I'm going to make this character a bit more
interesting.
I mean, did you notice, you know, all the extra fronds and moss
there that they put in stockcave set number 62?
number one.
Yeah.
And it was really well lit as well for ones.
It almost looked like it was outside.
Yeah, yeah, with their sky.
Like they had, you know, like they didn't, it wasn't just inside
the sort of cave, it looked like they were doing this against a
cliff and you could see the sky and it looked good because it was
well lit.
It's the something I have noticed, you know, covering Voyager on
the entire Star Trek project is that very often, you know, when we
don't do Star Trek Voyager, it's a lot more interesting than when
they do.
So distant origin, this, we go to the future.
Yeah, it's true.
When we go to the past in, um, oh, God, what's the one?
You know, when they do the voyage home.
You know, they're on the beach.
I don't know.
Friendship one.
Oh, Futures End. non-sequitur.
Oh, futures end.
Oh, that's awesome, my love.
This is another good one where we go to Earth and it's not doing
Voyager.
See, every time they avoid doing Voyager is great.
Yeah, but it is going to be Voyager now, and it's going to be
pretty good Voyager, I have to say.
Yes, I agree.
I love this.
Seven learning bedside manner via the doctor.
See, now this is something.
This is something that they realised worked.
And then they go, right, we're going to do someone to watch over
me.
A nice gentle comedy where the doctor teaches 7 how to have a
romantic liaison.
So they can't do it.
They can learn.
In fact, this is kind of sweet, isn't it?
Because she rejects the premise of it.
It's actually really fun because now you've got the doctor who is
kind of brash and obnoxious and hasn't properly mastered how to
you know, interact with people in a kind of gentle and thoughtful
way, trying to teach 7 how to do that when she's even worse than
him at it.
And it's delightful.
Like Tess used to help me with this one.
Now I'm going to train you, you know, like I think that's
adorable.
And this is so funny.
And and just the moment at which 7 loses her shit with this is so
good.
But then she's only in front of compliments about the doctor.
She's like, I'm not reading this bullshit.
When she goes out of the room saying, have a nice day, it's almost
like I'm done with this crap.
No, I actually think I didn't read it that way.
She says this lesson is terminated.
And he goes, yeah, yeah.
I know, but look, no, no, it softens.
You look.
Yeah, because she, it softens them. think that she's conceding.
Like she's actually trying to be nice.
And like it's that moment of connection.
I think it's really, really well considered, and it is that thing
where we're thinking about the premises of the 2 characters and
how they work together as well as how the 2 performers work
together.
He has softened a bit, though.
Go back and watch those series, one episode.
Like, you know, he's like, he's now giving a performance.
Back then he was basically a robot for a season.
Bridge banter for beginning.
It's the worst thing ever.
Bradon should read that.
But look, she turns around and stops and says has a pleasant day.
And I think she means it and he takes it that way.
And I think that's nice.
You know, she's rejected the idea, but not completely. the start
of someone to watch over me, whereas teaching her all about how
babies are born.
He's like, the drama of the womb, the worms come flying in and
she's like, oh, why are we doing it?
I think they realise that that's the best double out they've got
on the show.
And they keep giving Jerry and Robert things to do for the rest of
the series.
Well, I think Jennifer and Robert were great together too.
Like, I mean, it's Robert.
He's great.
It's better, yo.
Jennifer, isn't she?
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, yeah, no question.
And it's just because as well, because 7 is such an acerbic
character, for some reason, when you're in comedy and you're the
most serious person, it's so funny.
I just think the way she's taller than him as well, you know, which
is the opposite of Jennifer too. you know, like...
Let's not remember, this is the character that went up to Harry
Kim and went, you may now remove your clothes.
We are going to have sex.
We've still got a bit of that here, don't we?
Oh, no, it was in last week's episode in Hunter where we're still
talking about that.
What really surprised me about this episode was some of the
execution?
I think when they're doing the action.
Yeah, we've gone around bloody starship corridors chasing
monsters.
We've done it so much.
DSI, TNG, TOS.
There was a bit of visual dynamism to this, I thought at times.
They turn the lights down.
They turn the oxygen off at one point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was a wonderful bit where Chewbox suddenly started flying.
I was like, what's happening?
Yeah, for a change.
Well, that's right.
We complain about Star Trek, the Next Generation, never, ever does
anyone put on a spacesuit.
And now we, that's a thing that we routinely do.
One thing that I missed there is that 7 comes onto the bridge to
challenge Janeway early in the episode, but it's about something
different, isn't it?
It's about going to rescue the pilot.
Um, and Janeway does say that it's about compassion, and then
later on, she says, and now we know more about them.
Do you know what I mean?
Now we know more about them.
And so it was worth doing.
So that's some attempt, I think, to kind of like enumerate or kind
of elucidate on what Starfleet's ideals are.
I want to think it was sad.
I love the scale of the Hirosion sets.
I love the hanging skulls that come leering at the camera.
I love the bubbling vats of 13 different species that they put in
the acid to turn into food.
Look at the smoke.
I don't know, there's just a scale and an atmosphere to it.
I mean, it's still the same old bits of set joined together at the
end.
It's not a hugely different look, but some more effort has gone
into it.
And I think, you know, being able to amortise these sets over 2
episodes and maybe more.
Maybe we go back to it.
But I think that's what helps.
That's what it means.
I think Alanis and helps as well, though, because that scene
started with them beaming in.
And then he went up to, he took the camera up to look at the
ceiling, to see how high it was, and then he turned the camera
around and you could see how long the set was.
Like, I don't think the directors always get the best out of what
they've got on Star Trek Roger.
Do you remember collective and all that yellow lighting in the
bullshit?
In fact, I had a little horrible PTSD flashback to it at the
beginning of that shard where we had that yellow lining again.
Oh, we just missed a bit where Tom Paris kicks that ball that's
behind him now.
And it's clearly supposed to be a huge iron ball, but
unfortunately, it's a very hollow egg.
Yeah, I love his reaction to this.
What?
It's a head.
That's pretty funny.
So you're right.
Like, visually, it's not so different from what we've seen
before.
I just think how it's shot and lit.
They did.
They're just using what they've got well.
I think so.
That was quite impressed.
This is not at all where we expected to be.
Do you remember we had a flawless kill at the end of the opening
and now they're dead.
Do you know what I mean?
And clearly the 8472 has survived.
I think that's great.
It was a proper twist that I just didn't expect at all.
What happens when one implacable phone meets another implacable
phone?
Someone's going to win and it wasn't the hirogen.
No, but I mean, well, it was eventually though, wasn't it?
It's just a bit where you sit.
No.
Oh, my boy, the bit where you see Species 8472 climbing over the
hull of Voyager.
I love that shot.
Yeah.
It was like, I wonder where it went.
And then we're just cut to the outside of the ship and it's just
walking over the side of the ship.
I love this bit too.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they start to detect things happening to the outside and they
don't know what they are.
And, you know, like things are happening like, um, you know
there's decompression in the Harland, various things happen.
They're so...
Dialogue is so pony.
It's basically the one page synopsis of a hirogen.
And because sort of Hunter's introduced us visually to the idea of
the Hirogen, and because we're going to have fun next week with
the two-parter.
This is the only time now we've got to give you all the exposition
about what they're about.
So Chakotay does it all in one.
Well, we go so far as we can tell, they're hunters, they go around
looking for other species.
They put people in vats and turn them into food, you know, it's
like, thank you. we've got everything we need.
Let's go.
We kind of saw that.
I reckon the best thing.
I reckon the best thing is because, like, didn't, yeah, then we
saw that last week.
Didn't we say that last week?
like 90s trek to show us something and then explain it
afterwards.
Yeah, that's right.
But I think the like wolves thing is maybe the best explanation.
That's a great line.
Who was hunting the hunters?
Hunters.
Yeah, and that's where we see it.
No, that's not bad.
They've got the shadow of the creature on the hull of the ship as
well. really long shadow as well.
And we go around it, so... fucking awkward.
I think that's a nice effect shot, though, for the time.
Yeah, yeah.
On the memory alpha page, the guy geeks out about how excited he
was about animating it, which I think is delightful, bless him.
No, because I do think it is pretty great.
I think it's more of a problem when they're trying to put it in
against people and sets.
But when it's just a visual effect. looks pretty good.
They do have Tony Todd fighting the Hirogen in a scene, fighting
it hand to hand in this episode.
Keep an eye out for it because it's pretty impressive when you
think about what they were able to do back then.
More impressive than just animating a complete, you know, like
model shots.
More impressive than his shitty costume.
I mean, it's so lightweight, that costume.
You can tell that it's trying to look like a big bulky warrior, but
you can see that material was lightweight.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't mind it.
It's different. and the colours are good.
I don't know.
Look at the look in Tony Tot's eyes.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Hello, captain.
I think I could be quite comfortable here, you know.
He's so great.
But I also like just how much taller he is than her and how tall
they make all of them.
And it's not just by casting tall actors.
They do it by, you know, the way they're shot.
I think Kate has just had a yearly haircut, you know, it's very
short in this episode.
It is.
I don't mind it in this episode.
I'm not a big fan, as I said before, of the late Voyager, American
lady hair that Jane Mayer.
Oh, I love that.
The sort of Scully cut, yeah.
Yeah, no, you see, I like a, um, like with the French curl or with
the ponytail much better.
I think they're much nicer looks.
Oh, look, Chakotay will be the same.
Is he going to do anything?
No, he's just pressing some buns.
I like the fact in Voyager, you know, it's sort of the reverse
fact of enterprise.
In Enterprise, we're always berating the fact that you've got
lovely Linda Park there.
She's got nothing to do In Voyager, all the women get loads to do
and it's Robert Beltran, who doesn't get anything to do.
That's a much better way of running a Star Trek show.
Yeah.
You know, the way he's leaning into her right now on the bridge.
This shot exactly like this, that scene where he went, you know
you're fiddling with your combatge again.
You know, I mean, you're going to make a tough choice, Captain.
I actually quite like this scene.
Do you know what I mean?
And this is Chakotay operating as planned, giving her the chance
to explain what she wants to do.
Um, and it, like, she's super relaxed.
Techna bubble on the screen, though.
There doesn't seem to be much actual dialogue.
No, but this is the weird stuff.
This is new.
Do you know what I mean?
Like Jeffrey's tube has collapsed.
The plasma network is going down.
Something's happening on deck 11 and we don't know what it is, and
that's the 8472 getting on board the ship, which I think is pretty
good.
I don't know why she was saying Harry.
If they know it's 8472 they're going after.
The last time he faced them.
All those tubes coming out of his nose.
There's only 7 people on the ship.
What are you going to do?
It's true.
Yeah what is this?
This resitude, right?
Is that for me?
Yeah, yeah.
Because I think you're getting an alien, an alien music queue at
this point.
Like I think it's referencing the music from Alien.
Uh, you remember the alien sort of, its blood goes through several
bulkheads in in the 1st film.
And I think that we reference that here.
You couldn't call it for me, though, could they?
They called it polyphasic fluids.
I think they called it blood.
I think it's blood.
Yeah, but it's not red or anything.
It just looks like that.
Did you see that there?
He realised how boring these scenes on the bridge are.
Sorry, he did a bit of how and how camera work as he went
toward...
But again, here, as you know, Bob, Beltran, it used to be
impervious to our scanners.
Yeah, so like it's just managed to get in the ship and we've seen
what it does to the Hirogen who were very scary in the opener.
And so I think that's kind of...
This is when I knew it was going to be great, Nathan, because look
Janeway walked off the bridge with a gun. 7 came up to Bellana
with a gun.
Oh, way to big gun.
Oh here we go.
B'lana's got her ridiculous pregnancy thing on.
Oh, looking at...
You're getting a bump.
Bless her.
She's showing.
Good for you, I'll say.
Still waking up until the last day.
Yeah.
Species 8471 was...
Getting onto the edge of the warp core and jumped on Balana
Torres.
Yeah, that's a great shot.
That's one thing that does know, right?
One thing that Brenner knows to do is to sort of give you moments
like that.
And you look at his scripts, you know, he's the one that gave us
the smiley face and the warp core, remember?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's a great, that was, it wasn't that into the, into the
adverts, then?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was a great cliffhanger.
Brilliant, awesome.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, really properly good.
And this is really, like, things are happening here.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like... with a pair of phases.
But they're running.
There's things going in the background.
There's lots of extras, the camera's moving, you know, like it's a
pretty dynamic scene, I think.
I mean, I think I could have got behind this episode where if it
was just about the Hirogan hunt on Voyager with April 72, but you
add in the Janeway 7 stuff.
Oh, God, it crackles.
Yeah, I think so too.
Again, they make it about characters and it's it's people butting
heads. you know, on either side.
It's 8472 versus the Hirogen and Janeway versus seven.
You see Kate going ahead there down the corridor.
She like, I'm not waiting for Jerry.
You keep up, all right?
Jerry's doing great clenched teeth and holding one of those dumb
phases.
Oh, pointing at things.
They've had to take Bilana out of the action because we don't deal
with her character anymore.
We can't have too many strong women in Voyager.
Yeah, Roxanne's pregnant as well, I guess.
Like, I don't know.
Excuse me, but when Nana was pregnant.
They had a kicking the shit out of people with the baby showing.
That's true with the baby showing.
Yeah, that was really fun. was a wonderful moment.
She did that. throw punches, you know.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
That's one of the great things about Giorgio is, you know, like a
50 something woman kicking men in the head.
Yeah, like you want that.
But everyone on Voyager is so short because you don't want anyone
towering over Kate.
Do you know what I mean?
Chakotay's quite short.
And then seeing Tony Todd there amongst all these short ass people
on the, like in Sickfay is pretty funny.
He says, you know, lower the force field.
And I will continue the hunt.
The same sort of way I would say, you know, come out with me.
I'll take you on a date, you know?
But I think he's got just a very rich deep voice.
Like I'm pigeonable, right?
Because you remember how much she broke her heart in the visitor.
Oh, boy, oh, boy.
But he's always good.
I mean, he was a, he was a, um, gem Hadar as well, wasn't he?
He was definitely Kern, wasn't he?
Worf's brother.
He was Kern.
He might have been a Geminar at some point.
He played 4 or 5 roles.
And every time they, you know, they gave him more to do
because...
Yeah, he's really good.
He's really good.
He's a movie actor, for God's sakes.
I don't attract them all the time.
Yes, you see, I like this too.
They're scary, and they were definitely our enemy last week, but
she's trying to negotiate with them, and I guess, you know, the 7
sees this.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's, this is the problem.
I don't see what 7's reacting against.
Here we go.
This is where the gravity goes and suddenly he starts flying
Tuvok.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah, yeah.
That, I mean, that was probably my biggest surprise in the
episode.
They don't usually do things like this in boys.
No.
Yeah.
Well, he's trying to basically make the ship.
Um, it's a really difficult place in order for them to hunt down
April 72 now. you know, they're trying to make it as tough as
possible.
But also, I think just 8472 is epically evil and challenging and
so it's able to turn the ship against them.
Like it pretty quickly masters the environment.
Um, and, you know, is kind of formidable and that's what you think
the episode is going to go.
Do you know what I mean?
That we're sidling up to the hirogen.
We're negotiating with them and all of that sort of thing and
we're going to help them.
I used to think these space suits were so impressive.
Now I've seen the strange new world ones.
They just look like form plastic. don't they?
And yeah, look, see, look how short.
Look how short the medium robin is.
I mean, I know Tony Todd's tall.
You know when you really sort of fancy someone, yeah. and you're
like, 0 my god, you know, I think there might be a bit of hope.
I'm really going to sort of try and pursue you.
That's exactly how Tony told to play in going after A472 in this.
You know?
I've been tracking him for some time, you know.
I think I understand all of his behaviours.
It's predatory, you know, very strange. 500 metres away.
I can't wait for him to just be like the bog standard Klingon and
he just never did it.
Yeah, there's a huge sort of centre of gravity, isn't there, for
aliens to behave like Klingons.
It's kind of the standard Star Trek.
Oh, look how shitty that is.
Like, they're just doing heel taps to indicate that the, the, the
the, the, the, the...
Yeah, that's it.
Foley it.
Absolutely.
So the foley and some shitty acting.
What it is doing is it's taken a few lessons from the X-Files
here.
If we spotlight some scenes, we've got a bit of visual drama.
Bravo Voyager.
So these are the ones from 1st contact, which are just lying
around, aren't they?
This is great licing, Nathan.
This is really well known, yeah, same.
And shot from below with the red light, the sort of submarine
lighting of the walls.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's really good.
I always worry about teaming up 7 and Tuvok.
Why?
Just because they speak, they both speak into stupid space ways.
Don't contract any words.
It's just a little bit happy.
It's why you have to... deliver and the doctor because he's got a
lot of personality or chew locks for Neelix for the same reason.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's exactly right, because they're opposites.
They did it last week, too, in Hunters, didn't they?
They sent 7 and 2 Vok off in the shuttle.
No, did they have lots of space dialogue, the pair of them?
The trouble is, of course, they needed to get rid of 7 and Tuvok
because all the people on the ship were getting letters from their
families, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Oh, no, Tuvok has a really moving scene, I think, with Neelix, a
delightful scene with Neelix.
Every scene in Hunters, is just brilliant character into players.
Janeway finds out that her other half's moved on.
Yeah, that's unbelievably good.
It wasn't just the acting, though.
It's when she tells Medium Robert about it in a scene that I think
is really nice and maybe opens the door for another relationship
between them.
I mean, it's an easy way out of the show's core premise, but the
bit where they learn about the marquee being destroyed by the
dominion.
And the mention of the Dominion in Voyager.
Yeah, amazing. amazing.
Oh, look at this floating pad.
That's quite fun.
How do we suggest that there's no gravity when we can't do it for
spacious?
We'll just have a floating pads, you know?
There's no other equipment anywhere, just one pad.
No, that's right.
That's right.
They don't have CGI blood like they did in Star Trek.
They destroyed 1000000s of drones, 1000s of worlds.
Right.
So we're seeing the scale of what 8472 have done.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, no, we're not seeing it at all.
We're hearing about it.
Yeah, about it.
But they, and that.
So that is a motivator, isn't it?
That's motivating 7's decision at the end.
Look, they're doing Star Trek 6 now as well.
Floating blood.
Oh, there you go.
There is blood.
There is flirting blood.
How do we know he's been down here?
Oh, there's some blood floating.
Okay.
That's very handy.
Yeah, so yeah.
Yeah, so Seven's decision is also because of, like, they have to
sell that.
They have to make 7 clearly aware of how destructive 8472 were to
the Borg, I guess.
There's just something every couple of minutes, right?
You had the gravity going off and Shuvok floating.
You had the blood flying in the air there.
You had Species April 72 climbing on the hull of the ship.
Every couple of minutes, it's sort of pushing it along in a
dynamic way.
I think I think Bragger can absolutely structure these sorts of
scripts.
Yeah, I think he can too.
I mean, I think he's really good.
And, you know, he was high concept guy.
Wasn't he in late TNG, like timey, weird stuff.
As much as I ripped that ridiculous amphibian Troy in Genesis.
Every couple of minutes.
It was given us something weird to look at, wasn't he?
Yep, yep.
What if Barclay was a spider?
Oh, that'd be quite good. put that in.
What if Worf was a Neanderthal?
Yeah.
But, but he, he, um, you know, like he, he's high concept guy. this
isn't particularly high concept.
It's just 2 aliens hunting each other through, you know, the
voyager corridors, but you're right.
He's just able to make things happen every so often, like and
sustain some kind of pace.
Jukebox, that's a delix.
I'd like you to exchange your spatula for a plasma rifle.
And New York is like, what's the true point?
What are you talking about?
This is Neelix's contractual obligation scene, but it's quite
fun.
Yeah, I mean, I think the 2 of them are great together.
They really are great.
I think, though, because there was a pushback against the 2 of
them, Merleon.
They didn't focus on it as much as perhaps they could have, which
is a shame.
I think rises a bad episode for the 2 of them too.
Yes.
Rice is a bad episode in general.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like the idea, but yes, it is.
That's that's an example where a guest guest stars can come in and
absolutely sabotage an episode.
They're all so boring.
I don't think even Tony Todd could salvage that one, though, if
I'm honest.
So that is an interesting scene, but it gets interrupted, doesn't
it, by some stock footage from Scorpion Part 2.
Look how much they've learned from the West Wing here, all this
sort of tracking shots talking and walking.
I do love it.
You've got a decent amount of corridor to do it in.
We've just run out of corridors.
That's usually sort of the only dynamism we get in a 90s trek
episode is people talking and walking, but we'll take it.
I mean, there's a bit of that here, but there's also just sort of
fun, interesting things happening.
Jesus, the look that Kate just gave Jerry.
I think there may have been a rock bottom during this episode, you
know.
Kate, when are you going to get into character?
do you mean?
But like that's a moment, isn't it?
Like, she realises what they're doing.
It's not hunting them.
She realises before Tuvok does the telepathic contact thing that
he just wants to escape, that it's sick of being hunted and it
wants to escape.
And I do like these flashbacks to them attacking the ball and
things like that.
It just gives it a bit of scale.
And they were unbelievably great visuals.
Like, they were so striking. dun, dun, dun.
Absolutely. good.
Yeah, we had a lot of fun with Scorpion.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's terrible in lots of ways.
But, um, but it's an epic and this, uh, using that imagery and
using the 8472 again makes it a bit bit epic and it makes a
hirogen epic too, I think. by comparison.
See, I wonder if this was a DS9 episode, yeah.
It would be less the running round with guns hunting the thing
down.
Less the sort of action adventure and more the moral debate.
And you would have those well-defined characters on DS9 and
everybody would have an opinion.
No, it's done terrible things.
We can't send it home.
Yes, you know, we're Starfleet. what we do.
It would be much more, much more intelligent, I think.
Yeah.
Well, I think part of the, I think the problem is, like, this is
doing action adventure, and that's fine, and I think it does it
really well.
This is an enjoyable Star Trek episode, I think.
But, and it, like, they're trying to make us feel pity for it, but
it looks so ridiculous.
Um, it's, that's a bit of a hard ask.
But, you know, Kate is absolutely selling it, isn't she?
with the reaction shot that we just saw.
The camera angles in this are terrific.
Did you see them?
When she came in, it was shot from below with the 2 guys with the
rifles. and she just walked between them looking badass as hell.
But, and like here where he's isolated and impotent, you know, like
he's behind the force field in Sick Bay and he can't do anything
and he's small suddenly, like against a big background, whereas
before he was always looming.
See how small he is?
Janeway's bigger than him in the 2 shot there.
I don't think she realises this, but when Jerry is brought in.
There's more gristle in Kate's performance.
She gets a bit angrier and a bit more forethought.
You watch her in one to 3 and there is a, there's more sensitivity
in her performance and she suddenly becomes a bit more kick-ass
from series 4 onwards, but I do.
I mean, I love a kick ass woman, especially when it's Kate
Mulgrew.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I also think that there is like, I thought that she felt, she
looked stricken at the, at the plight of 8472 and properly sold
that.
Now we're going to get, so 7 of 9, they need 7 of 9's help to get
at home.
And so that's, you know, that, which is great.
Do you know what I mean?
Like give her, that's how you give her the choice.
You know, and and Janeway just orders her an overrun.
Unfortunately, instead of Janeway just saying, you know what?
This is what we do.
This is what we're about.
She gives some half ass backstory now about some mission that she
went on and the most thing I was most proud of was the thing I
pushed against in the mission, you know, what are you talking
about?
It's unbelievably bad.
So they're being attacked by Cardassians, right?
And there's one Cardassian who's horribly injured and is not armed
and they hear him, and they go and rescue him.
And like, it's kind of like, and I felt so good about not
committing a war crime that day, and that's really all that she
can come up with.
Like, it's not that that this thing is like us and it's scared and
it's not trying to hurt anyone.
And maybe in some other circumstance, we'd have to defend
ourselves against it.
But it's not like us.
This is their only language, though, at the moment, isn't it?
is to give these terrible backstories.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
To try and inform the decisions that they're making.
Instead of just saying, you know, yeah, this is who we are, this
is what we do, this is what we should do.
Yes.
I think Kurtzman Trek is more direct about that stuff.
Yeah.
And that's one of the things that I really appreciate about
Kurtzman Trek.
I don't think Braga is sold by that stuff.
Like he'd much, you know, because Janeway spends most of her time
fighting aliens in the Delta Quadrant.
She doesn't often make alliances, but, you know, the aliens are
always rotters and they're always intransient and stuff.
And, you know, she rarely gets to find aliens that she can make
alliances with and then she's gone.
There are plenty.
She just never chooses to do it.
Yeah.
Well, she does this, the trade.
Did we take the Mickey out of the big ugly tree for nothing?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What did we learn nothing?
Is the night we saved that man's life?
So she's got nothing.
Do you know what I mean?
act of compassion, she says. you know, please.
Like, and it made her feel good.
Like that's what that's the reason for doing it.
Did she say that?
you are attempting to justify your present position with some
bullshit backstory.
Jack Wait goes, yes, I am.
Exactly.
Yeah.
No, and then she goes, no, if you're not going to listen to that.
I'm telling you as your captain, I'm in charge.
Go and do it anyway.
But she can't articulate what the issue is and that's really
really important because what would have been good is if she'd
said that stuff about compassion and about identifying with 8472
and, you know, wanting to help it ends at suffering and stuff.
And it was going to leave.
It wasn't going to stay here and destroy things.
It was going to go away.
Hello, Nathan.
She goes, unless and compassion won't do me any good if I'm dead.
At least, at least they've got one character that is pushing
against the cliches.
Yeah, which I do appreciate.
No, but, but the problem is that, that she is rebelling against
something as limp and dismal as Janeway's reasoning behind why you
would be nice to 8472.
Passion for a Cardassian.
It makes you feel better.
Do you know what I mean?
That's why we do it.
It makes us feel better about ourselves and that's pathetic.
I want 7 to say that she's scared.
Species 8472 terrify me because of what I saw them do to the
Borg.
And yeah, what she actually says is you're making tactically
unsound decisions, but I think I think that making her visibly
scared is a mistake at this point, and she's already said what
destruction they're capable of.
And so all of this pushing back is 7's way of being scared.
This is how she's scared.
She's not going to tremble.
She's not going to bite her nails.
She is not going to say I'm scared.
She's going to say, this is very dangerous and I refuse to
participate in it, and I think that's pretty good.
When they get there, though, and they allow her to say things like
I'm scared.
Yeah, Jerry's so fun yet. so well.
Do you know, Alan Eastman did something very good there.
He didn't cut away from the scene when 7 walks out.
He then went to K and had her blink back tears. that she was so
angry and frustrated and and you actually got to see an emotional
reaction without dialogue.
It was only half a second, but I appreciate it.
I think they give that to Kate all the time.
I actually thought it was just Kate being, oh, fuck this shit
again.
Like, I just thought that was probably, that was probably Kate a
little bit more than it was Catherine.
She's like, you know, I can't work with this actress, all right?
Okay.
That's right, she's fortunate.
Would you please give me one shot to show just how frustrated I am
this season?
What I really appreciate, though, is that Kate does get there.
And what's sad is when she does, which is, I think, well, series 6
that's when Jerry's dating Brandon Bragger at that point.
So the game's like, fuck us.
I still need a job.
I better get on with her. is that they start doing less
interesting things with Seven's character at that point, which is
frustrating, but here we go.
Look at it towering over the doctor.
I mean, not that you see it.
You just see that the doctor...
Oh, well done.
Alan Eastman.
Oh my God, surrounded by ships.
We've done the typical, you know, lasers firing about the place.
It's it's really fun.
It is really great.
Yeah, and I do like that she's refused, but then she obeys
immediately.
So it's not, no, I'm just going to sulk.
You know, like she will contribute, but she is refusing to
cooperate with this particular decision.
If I don't think that the arguments are well sculpted or robust
enough or even make much sense, I just do like the tension
though.
I do too.
And I think they act it really well, even if even if the substance
isn't there in the dialogue, the pair of them act the frustration
and the anger, you will.
And we just don't get that on Voyager.
No.
And I think that it's resolved a little bit too easily because, you
know, resolved in this one.
No, so it does get a mention next week, but then it's the killing
game and then all... revolved because they're playing different
people next week.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, not next week.
There's another episode before the killing game, I think.
Is there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I can't remember what it is.
Oh, another Hirogen episode.
No, no, no.
It's not a Hirogen episode, and then the Hirogen appeared.
Like, give them a weakness or something like that is it?
No, I can't remember.
I can't remember.
Oh my god, did you see that?
What was it?
Tony Todd just shot that extra in the back and he did the worst
fall you're ever gonna see. and decided to slide down the wall
because he wasn't going to fall on the floor.
It was really not as good as seal those doors, woman.
Pretty bad.
She's amazing.
Oh, look at him now.
I've seen that look a 1000 times.
Stand aside.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh my god.
There's even subtitles for 8472 snarling fiercely.
But so we're about we watch some.
They're fighting.
Yeah, it doesn't quite work, does it?
I think there's more.
There is more of it, but it is a proper attempt to, you know, like
um, integrate them into the environment.
Look, I mean, look, when, sort of, Tony, if you could just get on
the floor and you're wrestling with a CGI dinosaur right now
okay?
that works okay.
It's only a very short shot before they beam out, but it is him
wrestling and integrated into that scene. and that's not something
that they really properly attempted before.
I thought that was worth doing.
And it is a bit of a set piece.
Like it's a little bit of a challenge, I think.
You know the whole thing with 7 making the decision at the end and
Janeway being furious about that.
They do do that in DSA.
I don't know if you remember the reckoning.
And the end of that episode is the par rafe in in Jake and the
profit in Kira fighting on the promenade sort of this celestial
battle. very cheaply done on the promenade case.
But the dramatic conceit is that Kai Wynn comes in and makes the
choice that Cisco couldn't and saves Jake and says, no, I'm not
going to let this happen.
So she stops the prophet from killing the par wraith.
And then it has huge consequences for the next season because the
par race is still there.
So, you know, some shows can do this stuff and there are genuine
consequences later.
Yeah, no, this doesn't really want to do that.
By the way, I did look it up and you're right, it is VR V.
Oh, it's a Tom Paris episode next week.
We can promise it won't be as exciting as this one.
That was a beautiful shot, you know.
It was on cherry and the thing.
It came round and Kate was just standing in silhouette in the
doorway. really good, isn't it?
And even just the way the camera follows Janeway, she walks away
from 7 while she's in the alcove.
I really thought this was beautifully acted this scene between the
2 of them.
And because because we can't reach any kind of a conclusion.
Like, she's basically saying, I need you, but I'm stripping you of
everything I possibly can to punish you.
And then you think that's it.
And then 7 comes in, doesn't she, at the last minute with a
riposte.
Yeah, yeah. yep.
Like, I think it's good.
I do think it's good.
And I do like the, you know, like I'm not here to debate it.
I'm just telling you what the consequences are and that's great.
You know, um, you've got something here.
Why didn't you keep doing this?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Again, the show can't quite sustain this because they're just not
being episodic.
I mean, remember that that ridiculous Paris is a mutineer kind of
Paris is being a prick thing from series 2, is it series 2, in
order to flush out our villain or whatever?
It reminds me, do you know what it reminds me of?
The end of that episode.
Do you remember when Odo betrays Kira when the Dominion are on the
station?
And then Kira comes steaming down the corridor and says to him, you
know, we are way past. sorry.
Yeah, yeah.
And but again, they deal with the consequences.
Yeah.
It's just a different show, isn't it?
It's a show that doesn't do it.
It is a shame.
But yes, it's this repost.
It is, it would be more interesting if we knew what she was
rebelling again. said he's played or written as if she's a
teenager. you know, like I'm growing up into something that you
don't want me to grow into.
No, I do too.
The idea of that.
I do too, because it happens to people. you know what I mean?
Whose teenage children grow up into something they don't want them
to be, you know?
And they really lean into and, you know, she's a woman, so they
lean into the fact that Janeway's the mother here and she's the
child.
Yeah.
And like Janeway, this lands.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, look at look at Kate's reaction to this stuff.
But the way she delivers that line as you were.
She goes, and she walks.
That's right.
It's just, I'm not engaging with this, but I think it hits.
I think she plays it.
If she looked at me like that, I would wither.
Jesus Christ.
K-Ochral, you are fucking terrifying, right?
You want to be.
So good.
That was a really good episode, I think.
I think it was really fun.
I know it didn't quite get there with the reasoning in the debate
but as an episode of Voyager as an action adventure, I thought it
was really exciting.
As a Hirogan episode, it told us something about, oh, it told us a
lot about them in all that exposition.
Oh, the next episode has started.
It looks very boring.
Oh, Tom Barris.
As a as a Janeway 7 episode, though, in this sort of continuing
story they're doing for out four.
It sort of stops in five.
But in four, it's, you know, she starts for as a Borg drone and
she ends for, what is it, hope and fear?
Yeah, which is a 7 episode and does centre on that relationship
between 7 and Janeway, in a way, this season is about that.
And so then they move on from it in five.
But I actually secretly quite like hope and fear.
I don't know that everyone else does.
Well, I think as an episode of Voyager, it's quite boring.
It's another ship that comes along and revenge tactics and all of
this boring stuff.
But as a 7 as a character piece, it reaches conclusions about a
character journey.
I mean, we don't have character journeys on Voyager.
So the fact that we're reaching some conclusions at the end of a
season long character arc.
It's something of a miracle.
It also takes us back to Scorpion, doesn't it?
Because it's, um, you know, the revenge thing is motivated by, uh
what Janeway did negotiating with the Borg and are lying with them
against 8472.
Like that's why that person goes back and tries to drop them back
into Borg space.
And of course, it's got a beautiful set.
I love that set.
So I'm a sucker for that.
Pray reminds me that, and I still think that 4 and 5 is basically
where Voyager is at his strongest, and don't, don't get me wrong.
There are still, at least half of those seasons are...
Average to poor.
But the other half, I think they've got a drive to them, they're
buoyed by the fact that Jerry Ryan has joined the crew, um, that
makes everybody else up their game.
Interestingly, it's exactly when DS9 went through the same sort of
Renaissance in series 4 when they brought in Worf and all the
dynamics shifted and it was really exciting because of it.
I've only they'd have done something with Roxanne's pregnancy
though.
You know, that would have been quite fun. but never mind.
I think that they could only really do that on Deep Space 9 where
no one's really looking.
I think in the kind of big flagship show that might have been a
little bit too far, but it is great.
It was a pretty great decision.
It's great when they hang a lantern on it.
Do you remember?
He goes, well, I beamed the baby from Keiko to Kira and someone
goes, can you do that?
Okay.
So great.
And then, of course, you know, the said joke, this is still your
fault.
My fault.
Sorry, I'm talking about D.S. Knight again.
I can't help it.
I love that show.
No, no, no, but praise a very good episode of Voyager, I think.
And it's certainly top five, I think, from series four. just a
really a really good watch.
Yeah.
Well, I watched Hunters and praise.
So if you weren't watching along with us, dear listener, then you
should go immediately and watch hunters and then pray because I
think they're 2 pretty great episodes, that dovetail and that are
both good in quite different ways.
Although why they didn't run with the letters.
I mean, for God's sakes, what is wrong with you people?
However, I won't say that Voyager can't hang a lantern on its own
terrible decisions because in season 7 or for author, where Harry
finally gets a conversation with his mother.
She turns up on the screen and goes, you get Captain Janeway on
the screen now.
I want to find out why you're still an ensign.
Awesome.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to
work out where we're going next.
You had control of the randomiser last time.
Superb choice. with Max.
And so I'm going to bring balance back to the force. by getting us
to watch an episode of Star Trek Enterprise.
To be fair, it's been a while since you pulled this shit.
Okay.
It's literally the least covered episode, the one that we are kind
of behind. only time we're ever going to watch it because I'm
certainly never going to choose it.
I have to pick it.
I get to sing the song and everything.
It's great.
So we're definitely doing it.
However, I feel like a caveat should be made before you press the
button.
Okay.
It should be a one or 2 because we've done a lot of 3 and 4 now.
And I know we like we like 4 because it's the one time when
Enterprise is actually okay.
I can't be stuck with all the season one episodes at the end of
this run.
Yeah.
Sometimes in 2040.
We've just got seasons one or 2 left.
And that's all.
It becomes a season one and 2 of Enterprise podcast.
I'll tell what I'm going to do as well.
I'm going to pull up our friend jammer and I'm going to read you
the synopsis because obviously we ain't going to have a clue what
they're all about.
Absolutely we're not. when you do it.
Give me just one moment, please.
Okay.
All right, I'm going to press the button then.
Uh, Season one, episode 11 cold front.
Cold Front, as the Enterprise Place host, visitors on a religious
retreat.
Uh-oh.
Archer is made aware of the Sulaban intruder who may be part of a
conspiracy waged from centuries in the future.
So how many Bams does he give it?
Three stars.
It's 3 stars.
Bam and a beer.
Oh, yeah.
Snap.
I don't want to do the 1st one now.
No, let's go again.
That sounds too good actually.
Let's do something worse.
Cold in the title again, but it's season four, episode five, cold
station 12.
So that is a pretty good episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Far too good for us.
I think so.
Oh, this is a possibility.
Season two, episode 23 Regeneration.
Is it the Borg episode?
Yeah.
No, we can't do the good ones from series one.
The whole point is we cover some of the bullshit, all right?
But we never do the good ones of one and 2 either.
There are so few of them.
Is it good, is it?
I don't remember it.
He gives this a BEM and an extra star.
3.5 stars.
I really like regeneration.
I don't think we should do that one.
Okay.
The sequel to 1st contact really rather than a prequel to sort of
anything else, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and, you know, we've got to the point where actually we can
do the Borg on TV with a bit of dynamism, which is quite fun.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because of 1st contact, I guess.
They're in the snow.
It's rather wonderful.
Okay.
But no, come on.
Something terrible then.
Oh, here we go.
This is probably it.
Season one, episode 20, Oasis.
Oasis.
The Enterprise crew contacts the marooned crew of a downed vessel
and begins suspecting the survivors are hiding a secret.
That could be any episode of stuff.
It's nothing for you, but why would anyone choose that?
have to do it.
2.5 stars.
Oasis.
He says pleasant, but too familiar.
Okay.
Well, Oasis.
I mean, I know nothing about it at all.
I must have seen it at some point.
A 3rd of April 2002. can be anything.
Now, listen to this.
This is a little pretty from jammer here.
The cynic and me wants to say, been here, done this is beaten into
quasi-acceptance by the sentimental optimist.
Oh, oh, that's a lot of work, to say, average.
Well, that's it.
It's kind of like him kind of going, oh, maybe enterprise will
become good. but they have to decide to kind of blow it up at some
point a couple of years time in order to kind of fix it.
I'm happy to do a mid-range episode of enterprise that I've never
seen before.
Why not?
That's why I pick up the bonus. thought that was all of them.
Oh, wait.
Guest starring Renee Aubishonois.
Oh, okay, right.
We're definitely on board.
That's okay. let's do that awesome.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social
media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 28th of October 2025 and released
on the 31st of October.
We'll see you next time to Star Trek Enterprise, Rasis.
Okay.
I'm doing, um, Beyond the Sea with Mags O'Halliday tonight.
God, that is so good.
It is just one of the best episodes they ever did and so early as
well.
So is that, that's the brother?
Her father dies or something?
Her father dies at the start, yeah.
And then it's a serial killer, played by, of course, Brad Dorff
but the single best performers.
I think he's ever given, just so intense.
Um, and Mulder doesn't believe him.
So that's that's sort of the hook for this episode is Mulder
doesn't believe, but because he is reaching out to her with things
that her father used to say, and he's just died, that she does
believe, and he's like, why?
why now?
Scully, why now do you believe?
And there's a bit where, you know, the serial killer's saying he
can contact, he's sort of in psychic contact with the other serial
killer that's kidnapped these 2 kids.
That's what they're going through.
And Mulder gives him the cloth from the guys, the victims that
he's got t-shirt that was sort of snagged on the car when he was
kidnapped and he's sort of going, ah, and he's getting all this
stuff about where they are.
And then Mulder goes, that is from our New York Yankees t-shirt.
It's got nothing to do with the case And then, so you're like, fuck
okay, so it's all a con.
And then Scully goes to walk out and he starts singing Beyond the
Sea at the funeral.
It's so chilling.
My blood run cold. and the look on Gillian Hanson's face.
I mean, she is so good in it.
Oh, she's brilliant.
I mean, she's straight ahead of him.
I like him a lot.
Like I do like him a lot, but it was always a joke that he only
had the one facial expression.
That's the one where she redefines what you expect from the
regulars in that show.
Oh, it's so great.
That's the one where she kicks away Jodie Foster's Clarice.
Yeah, okay.
And totally, yeah. is Scully.
Yeah, okay.
So what's how early is beyond the sea?
It's in the middle of the season, so it's... 13 something like
that.
It's the lowest single lowest rated episode of the X-filed ever
and it was the episode where basically the cancellation notice
came in and said this is just, and it's just so good.
It's crazy.
Ventilation, noticed. didn't know that.
They cancelled the series, didn't they?
At the end of one.
That's why one ends with deep throat being killed and the X-Files
being shut down.
It was never supposed to reopen.
That was it.
That was a one and now, and then they got a reprieve.
It was basically the Doctor Who thing.
They just they had nothing else. couldn't think of anything else.
So they said, Chris, you've got another year to make it work. and
then Susan Terry's with it. it takes off. flew off because I
remember it at the time.
You know, like I'm old enough to kind of actually remember
watching it as as it went out, like from that very beginning.
What's the one?
What's the one where it's a buried train?
That's the end of two, Anasal, yeah.
Yeah, that's what I thought because I was watching that with
Robert.
You know, at our house, like when we were 1st living together and
getting that thing where it's like, oh, shit, they're not going to
resolve this.
They're not going to solve this. train car. and it's just a pile
of bottles everywhere.
Those visuals.
I mean, compare it to Star Trek.
Do you know what I mean?
Just the imagination of the visuals and just the scale of it and
the fact that they're outside all the time.
Half the time it's the lighting that does most of the work.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just so atmospheric.
Mark Snow always music. as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So even in the dogs this season, the lighting has been exquisite.
Yeah, so good.