WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:12:56

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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Nathan, I've got a question for you. before we start talking about anything.

3
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And that is, why have I been forced to watch an episode this week with no context at all of what I'm watching?

4
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We're doing discovery this week, and I dipped out of discovery during series 3 and we're doing the series 3 finale, of which I spent the 1st 10 minutes scratching my head.

5
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Well, I mean, to be fair, there is a previously on discovery, but this is where basically everything comes to a head.

6
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Boy, does it?

7
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And so what's happened is we've had a two-part mirror universe episode with the Guardian of Forever and with the sad departure of Cousin Michelle from the show.

8
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I just need to say as a quick side note, I really felt her absence in this.

9
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Yeah, yeah, she's magnificent.

10
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And then we have a, what is basically a three-part story at the end of the season that pulls together all of the plots like, you know, who created the burn, where does the burn come from?

11
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and also the the emerald chain.

12
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And those have been running through the series.

13
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And I actually think the three-parter really deftly handles those plots and brings together the whole theme of connection, reconnection versus isolation that's been running through the whole series and that we talked about when we did forget me not.

14
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So there was 3 episodes of this then.

15
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There's 3 episodes of this particular story that we're watching.

16
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So I haven't watched the other two.

17
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Yeah, so what happens is there's an episode called Sukal, and that is where they discover the dilithium planet, and they've already heard the message from Sukal's mother. and they go down and they meet Sukal.

18
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And that's where we 1st see Doug Jones out of out of makeup and everyone sort of in different Star Trek latex arrangements.

19
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And we get to meet Zakal, and so Carl nearly causes another burn and so on.

20
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And then we have to leave very quickly because a cyra turns up.

21
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And so the next part, we completely leave them behind and we don't know what's going on.

22
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The last thing we see is a deer are kind of beaming down to the hollow thing.

23
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Then we get an entire kind of, it's sort of starship mine where, um, the ship is taken over by Asira and we get this sort of whole action thing where it's about trying to reclaim the ship and so on.

24
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And we have no idea what's happening on the dilithium planet.

25
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And then we come back and we have both plots in the final episode.

26
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Are you telling me this ain't the action episode?

27
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No, there is a, there is a much more kind of live.

28
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It reminds me more than anything else of Starship mine.

29
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So that's, is that series 6?

30
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It's the one where Picard gets his vest on, you know, and starts crawling around the ship with a big gun, you know.

31
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They did it again with Voyager with Janeway in a tank top. you remember?

32
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going around the ship?

33
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like Ripley out of Alien, you know?

34
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And so that was a sort of that was a great kind of action thing, a huge action-packed thing, which just left unresolved the question of what was happening on the dilithium planet.

35
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And now all of those plots come together in the finale.

36
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But there's a lot of stuff from earlier in the season in there.

37
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There's a lot of stuff in this episode full stop.

38
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You know, it's it's packed full of stuff.

39
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Okay, I need to lay my cars on the table from the off.

40
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I didn't think that this was particularly good.

41
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And I think my biggest problem with this is the big twist of the season, what caused the burn, because that's the mystery of this year, isn't it?

42
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Yeah.

43
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It's not really, you know, like where's the Federation?

44
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It's what brought the Federation to its knees.

45
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And I saw fan theories going around because it was called the burn.

46
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People would go, why?

47
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It must have something to do with Michael Burnham.

48
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Yeah.

49
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Or as you said, you know, it would be appalling if it was discovery that had actually caused, you know, this wanton destruction across the quadrant.

50
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And the conclusion that the season draws, I was just staring at my screen going, huh?

51
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And not in a good way.

52
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I was just like, it's so small and so insignificant.

53
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And yes, it is thematically linked with what is going on with the season, although I have issues with that because I feel the need to spell that out in like specific detail in the final 10 minutes.

54
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Like we couldn't figure it out for ourselves.

55
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Yeah.

56
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I just didn't get it.

57
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I just didn't get how, uh, such a kind of galactic consequence could come from, and it's, it's done via the most obscene of Star Trek Technobabbles.

58
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Like.

59
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You know what I'm like with Star Trek.

60
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. resonating the dilithium minds of this planet or some such bollocks.

61
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Like, what was the reaction?

62
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What was the reaction to this?

63
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I'm not sure, because I try not to be too online, because obviously the problem with Star Trek discovery is that it's another science fiction franchise that has women and black people in major roles, and like, Doctor Who and trans people.

64
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And so there is a toxic segment of fandom that I just can't bear even to look at.

65
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And you go on Facebook and there are just openly racist comments and stuff about the show.

66
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And so I don't really know what the online reaction was.

67
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I have to say that I had a similar reaction to you.

68
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In that, it seemed like just a tiny, insignificant thing, uh, and that that was, that was an odd storytelling choice.

69
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But I actually rewatching it this time thought it was a good choice.

70
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And we have an hour to talk about it while it's on.

71
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So I'll make it clear why I think that it was the right choice.

72
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See, I want to compare it to something else which I think does a similar thing, but way, way better.

73
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And that is how they ended the Dominion War in DS9.

74
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Now that didn't end on a massive battle, but there was a massive battle, and the Dominion retreated, but what happened was Odo went down to Cardassia, he linked with the female changing for all of about 2.5 seconds, in which time it's clear that when they unmelt, that they had this long, blonde conversation, and she goes, we're surrendering.

75
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And that's how it ended, but it was completely built into their character and he then says, I'm going to be with the Great Link. And that was enough for them to say we're going to end this war.

76
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And it was completely built into like 4 or 5 years worth of character.

77
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This got so disconnected from anything in discovery.

78
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I'm just like, well, what is this?

79
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Like, what's this got to do with anything?

80
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I will make it clear what I think is going on here.

81
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But it's a different type of storytelling from what we used to.

82
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And it's a type of storytelling that I don't think 90 Strek would have attempted.

83
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Okay.

84
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Well, I'm intrigued.

85
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I'm intrigued to hear.

86
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I'm willing to be persuaded.

87
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All I know is, is like my gut reaction was, this is not good.

88
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Yeah, I think it is good.

89
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And I think it's the culmination of a really good three-parter that that for me had had a scale to it.

90
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It was so much fun.

91
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One of the things about discovery is that it has this massive scale.

92
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It's not just people on a ship doing a space problem every week.

93
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That is a real sense.

94
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Oh no, I love that.

95
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I wouldn't be here.

96
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That's right.

97
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This has a scale of way that the Star Trek movies have a scale that they seem to take place in a bigger world than just the world of the ship.

98
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And that's how discovery operates.

99
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And I really liked it.

100
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You know, it's long, it's about 3 hours long in total.

101
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Not this episode of Untitled Star Trek project, but the finale.

102
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And so there's time for a lot of things to happen.

103
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And so I was really here for it.

104
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You'd be lucky if it was 3 hours long, this episode of our tiles, Star Trek.

105
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I listen to it, 2 of us talking.

106
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That's right.

107
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Just one other quick thing before we go in.

108
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I think one of my other issues with discovery is I do think all of the seasons start off with a lot of promise.

109
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And then I felt it with the 2nd series with the red lightning, all of that.

110
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It just sort of ended on a load of mawkish nonsense.

111
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I really didn't like the end of series.

112
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I know you like the end series one.

113
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I found that desperately underwhelming.

114
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And then this, I just was left very confused.

115
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I feel like these seasons go in with huge like we're going to deliver something amazing.

116
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And then at the end it's like, oh, we need to wrap this up.

117
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And there is thematic resonance and there is character, like, conclusions with each season, but I feel like the show is visually massively ambitious, yeah?

118
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And I think it's creatively promising, but ultimately a little bit unambitious in how it tells a seasonal arc.

119
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Yeah, I think I have a higher opinion of the new, although I have to agree with you about the series 2 finale, which I did think was there were a lot of tearful speeches in that final episode.

120
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Don't you think this episode's immune?

121
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All right.

122
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There some bits at the end of this episode where they're all bred all walking around looking at each other longingly as a big, lovely family.

123
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Oh, it was too much.

124
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I was like, oh, I love that.

125
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Instead of the kind of, you know, robots that we had in 90s trek.

126
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Yeah, we want Picard coming into a poker game and just saying, well, I should have done this years ago, you know.

127
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No, make me cry.

128
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Okay, all right.

129
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Okay.

130
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So I'll count us in.

131
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Yeah, I'm ready.

132
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All right.

133
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

134
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You freebie, then, because you normally say free to one.

135
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Okay, so this is our staple previous on discovery now, and we need it.

136
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Yeah.

137
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We really need it.

138
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Because without it, we're completely lost.

139
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So I think because this is on a streaming service and it's not on CBS, um, and it's, it's absolutely not the show that Star Trek was in the 90s because while the early parts of a season are a bit self-contained, like forget me not, although that introduced things that would come later.

140
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That was a perfect, perfect episode.

141
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It was completely 90s trade, wasn't it?

142
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Yeah, but this, so this is absolutely serialised.

143
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And, you know, even more than that.

144
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It's part 3 of a 3 part story, essentially.

145
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So do you think this is expected now, like, of a TV show on a streaming service that you basically it's all or nothing on the whole?

146
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Well, there is talk of Strange New World, the Captain Pike spinoff, being more lightly serialised than this, for people who like their Star Trek a bit less serialised.

147
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That sounds marvellous.

148
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Yeah, well, I think that that is for people who find...

149
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I know what you're thinking.

150
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I know what you're really thinking.

151
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Go on, I will focus in the 1990s trek.

152
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There's 100s of episodes of 90s trek still available to watch. if that's your thing.

153
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But what we have here is a bigger story.

154
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A bigger story than you can tell in 45 minutes or an hour.

155
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And an interesting story as well, because the scale here, this is series 3.

156
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And so we've been introduced to an entire new setting for various reasons, which are somewhat messy.

157
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But the premise is good.

158
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The premises, the federation is being rebuilt.

159
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I think the 1st 5 or 6 episodes of series 3 are probably the strongest run of discovery episodes.

160
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The one where they 1st go to Earth, and as they discover that hologram of the guy who's talking about like the Federation.

161
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All of that, the mystery of what's happened with the burn.

162
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I was truly invested in all of that.

163
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Wow, those robots are amazing.

164
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Those robots are horrific.

165
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These are the dots and there's a fantastic short trek called E-Frame and Dot, which is about one of them.

166
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It's really great, but I think they're adorable.

167
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Are they sticking around?

168
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I swear they were repairing them at the end.

169
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

170
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Well, they're all over the ship.

171
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They're part of the ship's self-repair system.

172
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So here's a gormagander.

173
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We saw one of those in series one.

174
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This is amazingly beautiful because this is a, what's happening in this part of the plot.

175
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We're in the holodeck, a big holodeck on this shit.

176
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And it's the holodeck that Sukal has grown up in.

177
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And it looks like a haunted house.

178
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Yes, looks just like a haunted house.

179
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And so there are staircases.

180
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It's dark.

181
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The camera keeps rolling over and It's doing something weird.

182
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No, no, no, it's doing something weird and hypnotic with the holiday, which night is track did not do.

183
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They used it as an excuse to go off to Da Vinci's or, you know, a pool table or James Bond boy or something like that.

184
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Yeah, yeah.

185
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But it wasn't like you can do anything and this is doing anything, isn't it?

186
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And so this, I think, operates on that level.

187
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We're in a scary house with a monster and like a wise old man.

188
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And so I think this is operating in this sort of strange fairy tale way.

189
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And I don't know if you remember, but the way that they find this ship is that Sir Carl's mother sends out a message and that message is encoded in a melody and that melody appears over and over again in the earlier episodes.

190
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And the melody is a lullaby.

191
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So there's a lullaby that brings them here. all along the watchtower.

192
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Yeah, yeah.

193
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Yeah, yeah.

194
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It's not, you know, that's pretty great.

195
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Why is the doctor like a Bajoran?

196
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So on in this, I think it's an excuse, right, to get Doug Jones out of makeup.

197
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And so in this...

198
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Oh my god, it's like Doc Jones, I've literally just I just realised that.

199
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

200
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Wow.

201
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So it's, yeah.

202
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Yeah.

203
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And he's wonderful in it.

204
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It's this incredible thing, you know, where he's had this career playing latex covered people, like the gentleman and the fish that that woman fucks in shape of water.

205
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And and he is.

206
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Oh, and look, look, look, this is Hugh seeing Gray for the 1st time.

207
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And this is all real...

208
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Okay.

209
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I was going to come on holidays. was all really, really nice.

210
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And it's about bloody time, Star Trek gave us like a gay family, isn't it?

211
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Yeah.

212
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And the thing about about him having kind eyes because he does and that smile.

213
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I love how...

214
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Oh, man, is it tough?

215
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What's the doctor's name?

216
00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:03.659
Kuba?

217
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Hugh.

218
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Hugh.

219
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:06.660
Yeah. and his partner.

220
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.579
They're both really tactile with them.

221
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.200
I really love that as well.

222
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:11.819
It's very Cisco and Jake, isn't it?

223
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.740
It feels real, you know?

224
00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.619
You touch your family, aren't you?

225
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.119
You're close to them.

226
00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:20.579
And it is a proper family thing.

227
00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:28.380
Like in one of these episodes, Paul talks about having a child and he means a Dira.

228
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.779
So it is the gay family.

229
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:31.799
Look at that monster.

230
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.059
That terrifying monster.

231
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.019
Like, you know what?

232
00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.339
I want to say from the old.

233
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:40.559
Like, um, the budget of this show is extraordinary, how it looks is incredible.

234
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:45.599
As you said to me in a message, it looks better than the majority of the films.

235
00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:49.980
Like it is, it is an assault on the census, this TV show.

236
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.880
Yeah, it's also that you don't quite know what you're seeing.

237
00:17:53.940 --> 00:18:02.160
So this is just, you know, like the federation base or whatever, but the shapes of the ships in the background are really weird and indistinct.

238
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.839
They're odd. like they're like nothing that we've ever seen in Star Trek.

239
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:13.200
And then the space itself, this weird sort of toroidal force field thing.

240
00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:20.160
Like, it's it's visually very strange, and I really, really like that.

241
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:25.440
However, I am going to go with Jamma from Jamma's reviews here.

242
00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:30.599
I don't think they do space battles, particularly adeptly in discovery.

243
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.940
It's a lot.

244
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.259
I disagree with that.

245
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:34.680
Okay, okay.

246
00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:36.960
Well, look, that's a look there, but it's all a bit sedate.

247
00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:38.579
The ships are moving incredibly slowly.

248
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:40.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

249
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.599
But they're trying to sell that they're big.

250
00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:45.420
You know, the...

251
00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:46.740
Furious, you know?

252
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.759
Well, we'll get to that.

253
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:48.660
We'll get to the action.

254
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:50.579
Yeah, yeah.

255
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.980
But so, this green woman.

256
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.319
So this is a Cyrus.

257
00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:57.059
She's head of the emerald chain.

258
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:01.440
And she turns up quite early in the season.

259
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:08.880
She has a couple of episodes one where book is kind of in this labour camp.

260
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.339
I think he might have seen that one.

261
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:19.740
We might have talked about that And then later on she comes back to threaten Quajon, and she's really, really sort of fabulously evil.

262
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.900
And she has turned...

263
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.279
I think she was a little bit wooden.

264
00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:27.720
I don't think she'd be too out of place in like a Graham Williams Doctor Who story.

265
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:28.920
She's very over the top.

266
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.259
I love that.

267
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.839
I think you know, having a female villain.

268
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:34.619
She's English.

269
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.480
She's icily English.

270
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.500
Of course she's English.

271
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:37.920
Yeah.

272
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.619
Because we're all bloody evil, aren't we?

273
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.299
Malcolm, absolutely.

274
00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:44.279
I can list them all.

275
00:19:44.759 --> 00:20:03.779
I think the makeup is slightly weird, but what they've done is they've created this thing called the Emerald Chain, and I don't think they've really looked at kind of looked into it in a lot of detail, but she actually turns up on the Federation base and tries to negotiate with Vance joining together.

276
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:05.039
Yeah, yeah.

277
00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:05.519
Yeah.

278
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.180
Yeah.

279
00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:19.920
And and the whole, the whole season has been about rejoining, you know, we've started with 38 worlds and we're we're trying to get more people to rejoin the federation and and get it to be a new thing.

280
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.880
And it's all about connection versus isolation and stuff like that.

281
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:25.980
And they haven't been particularly successful.

282
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.359
You know, Earth and Navarre are both not interested in joining.

283
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:31.980
True is.

284
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:32.940
At the end of the episode.

285
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:38.039
Well, so is Navarre at the end of the episode, but they're not during the show.

286
00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:46.380
So what we have is lots of frightened isolationist groups that don't want to join together.

287
00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:49.500
But Asara does want to join with them.

288
00:20:49.559 --> 00:21:04.500
And she presents the challenge that she's a criminal who has harmed a lot of people and that she's a capitalist and they don't want to do capitalism.

289
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.720
And so the whole thing founders.

290
00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:14.940
The reason that she wants to destroy the Federation in this episode is that last episode her negotiations with Admiral Vance failed.

291
00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:22.380
And Vance said she that we would join with the emerald chain provided she was put on trial.

292
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:25.920
And so she did a big villain flounce and headed off.

293
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.079
And it was a pretty spectacular flower.

294
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.539
In terms of Star Trek villainy.

295
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.220
She's pretty small fry, isn't she?

296
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:38.880
But, you know, like, I don't know why Star Trek doesn't do villains all that much.

297
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:40.440
Are you kidding me?

298
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:46.920
Well, Deep Space 9 has regular villains, but it's about the...

299
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:47.519
It does.

300
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:51.000
You know, I want the Kardassians exterminated.

301
00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:52.019
I mean come on.

302
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.619
Yeah.

303
00:21:52.680 --> 00:22:01.079
But I, you know, she's less high concept than any of those. and they have 7 years to develop and she's just in this season.

304
00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.059
Will we remember her in years?

305
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.579
I will, I think she's fabulous.

306
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:09.119
And I like the green streaks in her hair.

307
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:10.680
That's why you're over it.

308
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.660
That's what I want That's absolutely true.

309
00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:15.779
I mean, to be fair, She wouldn't be out of price in a original series episode.

310
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.619
Even the look of that.

311
00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:18.240
Yeah, yeah.

312
00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:23.460
Well, she isn't, she's, um, Orion, like Tendee.

313
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:24.839
Only not as nice.

314
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:36.240
Yeah, so, and the other thing is that I can't believe that David, David Cronenberg is a skinny regular guitar, isn't it?

315
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.480
I think he's very...

316
00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:41.880
And kind of handsome as well.

317
00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:44.160
Yeah, yeah, he's looking good.

318
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.259
The glasses are really great too.

319
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.960
I like this.

320
00:22:49.019 --> 00:23:01.500
I like that they have a home base and that because I guess Discovery had Katrina, that Admiral in series one.

321
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.500
Do you remember the admiral who'd had the relationship?

322
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:05.460
Oh, yeah.

323
00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:06.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

324
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.640
Who I thought was fantastic.

325
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:10.440
I thought she was really, really good.

326
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.319
And one of the things that Discovery does.

327
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:25.920
And partly it's just a result of how messy its production has been and how it's kind of floundered and tried to find what it's going to do over the 1st couple of years, is that people come in and out of it.

328
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:35.039
And the cast now, the, the regular cast, it doesn't have a regular cast in the way that um, 90s trek does.

329
00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.619
Or here, finally, at 12 minutes of the opening.

330
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:49.619
I find it very interesting at the end of this episode, they put Burnham in the captain's chair because one of the things you and I celebrated about discovery was that this was her show and she wasn't, wasn't captain.

331
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:50.099
Yeah.

332
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:57.599
And, you know, like, and you said the show was ever more heading to in a very Star Trek direction and leaning into the cliches.

333
00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:08.819
And towards the end of this episode, it felt like I'm not sure about the 1st 50 minutes, but the last 10 minutes felt so Star Trek. like Star Trek of the past.

334
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.079
Yeah.

335
00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:17.700
I think that it's an artefact of the production, which is that it was going to be an anthology series originally.

336
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:24.299
And so the story of discovery would have been the 1st season. interesting to see how it would have panned out.

337
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:32.220
But then you get these actors and these sets and the premise and stuff and you sort of think, why are we throwing this away after a year?

338
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.619
And so we keep going.

339
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:37.019
You know, you love Saru as the captain.

340
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:38.099
And I did too.

341
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.500
I thought he was, I didn't forget we're not, he was especially good.

342
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:41.819
But I really liked.

343
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.700
I can't remember the fellow's name now because it was a few seasons back.

344
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.140
In season one.

345
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.180
The guy from the Mirror Universe, Jason Isaacs.

346
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:49.019
Oh, my God.

347
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:54.900
I really liked him, you know, because he was like, you know, a quiet badass on the side.

348
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:56.220
Yeah, you know?

349
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:57.960
And you weren't sure whether you liked him or not.

350
00:24:58.019 --> 00:25:00.599
And I love that with Saru, you like Saru.

351
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.339
With Burnham, you like Burnham, you know.

352
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.420
Yeah, yeah.

353
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.599
Yeah, I thought he was terrific and he was sort of hot and sweaty and stuff.

354
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:07.500
Yeah, yeah.

355
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:13.440
So now we come out of the opening credits into this space.

356
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:14.579
And the space.

357
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:23.700
So what I'm, what my theory is, this is a fairy tale in all sorts of ways.

358
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:47.400
So they have been drawn here by a lullaby that has attracted them to this space and they now play out what the season is about with just this one person, but in a mythic space where there's a monster in a haunted house where everyone is wearing the wrong Star Trek makeup.

359
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.859
Well, that's incredibly literal, isn't it?

360
00:25:50.519 --> 00:26:09.420
Yeah, yeah, but, but, um, Yeah, and and and so everyone appears as the wrong race so they can get Doug Jones out of the makeup and so that the reveal of Doug Jones as a Kelpian, another Kelpian, uh, happens later.

361
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:19.200
And so what they need to do is they need to work with him so that he can face his fears and go outside.

362
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:37.500
And that's the mission of discovery this season is to go from place to place where people are isolated and frightened and traumatised by the burn and convince them to overcome that and join in with something bigger.

363
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:48.119
And so the whole series, the whole theme of the series, all that stuff about connection, um, which is super explicit, I think.

364
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:50.339
I'm not reading stuff into that plot.

365
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.259
Oh, boy, is it explicit?

366
00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:53.460
In that final log.

367
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah, oh, well, yeah, yeah.

368
00:26:54.779 --> 00:27:01.319
I mean, that is a thing that Discovery does, which is I think we could do with less. learned how to...

369
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.660
And off we go to create the Federation.

370
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.859
I mean, it's built into Star Trek style, isn't it?

371
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.519
Because we always have captain's log, you know, Stardate.

372
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.700
Now, here's how I'm feeling about the thing instead of showing you.

373
00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:18.059
Not to Crusher has repaired us with her usual scale.

374
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.039
Yes, that's right.

375
00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:23.880
How do they go from salamanders to human beings between themes.

376
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:24.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

377
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:28.079
So that is a thing.

378
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:33.119
So, and I do think, like, I do think that reading is absolutely there.

379
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:41.819
I do also think that those scenes between Doug Jones on that character were just interminable and they went on and on and on.

380
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:47.220
I don't I was just, I kept, I kept asking myself, why am I supposed to care about this character?

381
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:47.940
Where are we going?

382
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.640
Who is this character and why am I supposed to care about him?

383
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.960
Are we going to see him again?

384
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:52.740
Probably not.

385
00:27:52.799 --> 00:28:00.779
So we're just we're just dealing with this this character in this season as a reason for why we we are going to see him again.

386
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:02.880
Oh, yeah, yeah.

387
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:03.359
Okay.

388
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:05.460
Well, yeah, he's back at beat.

389
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:07.740
I'm a little more invested Yeah, yeah.

390
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.420
Well, see, you still go on a bit, though.

391
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:10.740
Like, yeah.

392
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:16.319
And and he was introduced obviously 2 episodes ago and we've been wondering what's been happening.

393
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:20.160
Do you know throughout last week's episode, we didn't know where this was going?

394
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:23.039
I'm starting to wonder then, because you know, your fairy tale reading.

395
00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:23.759
Fabulous.

396
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:32.220
But like, you had a similar reading with in the wonderful flight for entirety in series 5 of Doctor Who.

397
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.480
I didn't like that either.

398
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:35.640
So I'm wondering if I just don't like fairy tales.

399
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:36.839
Fairy tales.

400
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:43.619
See, I think that most people wanted there to be a big space reason for the bird.

401
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.799
Like the Romulans or some fucking thing.

402
00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:49.859
And I actually think that that would have been terrible.

403
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:56.400
Had it been caused intentionally, that would be something we couldn't come back from.

404
00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:04.680
So for a little while, I had thought that, obviously, everyone thought discovery might have caused it, and that would have wrecked the show.

405
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:07.859
Like if they had destroyed the Federation, then...

406
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:09.480
It could have been the Dominions revenge.

407
00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:13.500
You know, we'd never have to paint them as good guys because they were the bad guys anyway.

408
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.680
Yeah, but I don't know that they want to do the Dominion.

409
00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:19.740
They did a shape shifter in series 4 the other day. exciting.

410
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:21.539
They're leaning more and more into DS 9.

411
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:22.019
I approve.

412
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:24.240
I'm not in serious 4 yet, but I approve.

413
00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:41.819
But also think as well, if you are going to be doing scenes with like a man who has the kind of the intellect and the emotional capacity of a child, you have to be a little bit careful in writing and playing that.

414
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.420
And I don't know if I didn't feel a little bit uncomfortable in some of these scenes as well.

415
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:45.900
Yeah.

416
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.480
Um, but that's just a personal reading.

417
00:29:48.599 --> 00:30:18.779
Yeah, I, I mean, I, I think that getting Saru to do this because Saru is kind and diplomatic and gentle and, and we, there's an urgency here because, uh, we've got a bit of a Charlie X situation with Sakal, because if Shakal gets too upset, he can cause another burn.

418
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.599
I'd say Charlie X was a bit scarier though, wouldn't it?

419
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:22.559
Yeah, those scary eyes.

420
00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:23.940
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

421
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.980
He's an ugly, weird...

422
00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:29.819
But this guy has got this guy here on this play, he's got far reaching consequence.

423
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:31.440
If he gets pissed, you're in trouble.

424
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.180
Yeah, that's right.

425
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.960
And so he has to be managed because he can kind of blow it up.

426
00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:38.460
And so the stakes are hard.

427
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:39.180
But is he only there?

428
00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:40.799
Where there's all dilithium around.

429
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:42.180
I think that's the idea.

430
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:44.700
And then it resonates outwards and then...

431
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:49.079
Because space in discovery is different as well.

432
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:56.519
Because we've had the Mycelial network, which appears to be a subspace realm full of mushrooms, which is...

433
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:56.819
Why not?

434
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.440
bafflingly weird.

435
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:00.599
And I'm absolutely here for it.

436
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:01.440
I don't care.

437
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:08.339
And this where, you know, there's some kind of quantum entanglement that joins all of the dilithium in the world together.

438
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.859
Sorry, I leisure cannot listen anymore.

439
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:12.720
You're going to start spouting Technobabble.

440
00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:13.140
All right.

441
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.940
That's a real thing.

442
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.359
So all of the, it's magic.

443
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:24.480
What you do to a big bunch of dilithium happens to all of the other bunches of dilithium, essentially.

444
00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:27.420
I hate magic warm situations, you know.

445
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:38.039
No, that's that's proper magic in the sense that, you know, doing something to a symbol or doing something to part of something affects the whole thing or affects the thing that it refers to.

446
00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:42.180
So I think there's a that it operates on the level of magic, the burn.

447
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:43.680
I mean, you know what?

448
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:48.900
It's absolutely subverting expectations and it's completely original.

449
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:50.759
And I approve of that.

450
00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:56.940
However, there are many things I can say are completely original to the expectations that are still a bit shit.

451
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:57.900
You know?

452
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.240
Yeah, I don't think this is a bit shit, though.

453
00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:07.740
I can't think of a space reasons way that this would have been acceptable.

454
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:20.220
So if some alien race had done it, then we have a big evil villain and that's not what this show wants to do because this show is about connection and overcoming difference.

455
00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:22.619
That's why I love to do that.

456
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:28.380
That's what I loved about this night. was it was a big villain and there was something to fight against and yeah, yeah, yeah.

457
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:33.599
But then you get cross at Picard, which is cynical and doesn't have that overarching, loving theme.

458
00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:40.680
Yeah, there's a Star Trek that can be nasty. and this is, I mean, we're here watching book get tortured.

459
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:42.119
That's reasonably...

460
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.579
It has its moments, discovery.

461
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:52.920
That little close-up of Michael's eye, which just says, actually, I'm now going to kick the shit out of these people.

462
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:57.539
She's been there doing her distressed at my boyfriend being tortured face.

463
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:02.099
Even though Michael Burnham is, in fact, extremely pretty.

464
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.019
She has done very well for herself.

465
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.339
He is gorgeous.

466
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.019
He is beautiful.

467
00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.519
But she's stunning.

468
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:11.700
He's in a Doctor Who.

469
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:12.480
Is he?

470
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.640
He's in the beast below.

471
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:16.980
He's one of the smilers in the beast below.

472
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:18.779
You mean they put a mask on his face?

473
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:21.660
No, well, and he turns around.

474
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:22.440
You see his face.

475
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:25.079
He's kind of the hero smiling.

476
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:33.420
He hasn't, like, I know I know he's been in throughout the season because I remember him in the 1st episode, but he hasn't really had like an enormous role, has he?

477
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:34.980
He's basically...

478
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:35.579
Oh, okay.

479
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:40.079
I thought you said that basically he was her other half and that's kind of his role.

480
00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:40.380
Yeah.

481
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:42.539
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

482
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:44.460
But that is an important role.

483
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:48.599
That's quite a refresh actor's partner. for a man to get that role, just to be the other arse.

484
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:49.559
Yeah, support somebody.

485
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.200
He's the Cassidy Yates of Discovery.

486
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:55.079
Now you're talking.

487
00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:05.700
Okay, now look, we're heading into the relentless stream of thrilling action that this episode is going to throw it.

488
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.159
Now, I don't object to action, all right?

489
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:14.880
And I do think that they bring it to life very adeptly.

490
00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:17.099
There's just so much of it.

491
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.079
And it's like die hard or something like that.

492
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:22.440
After a while, after 5 minutes into an action set piece.

493
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:25.619
It's like the Star Trek movies, the Kelvin ones.

494
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:30.420
I just go, well, my brain just turns off and I'm just like, well, it's just stuff happening now, you know?

495
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:33.780
But, I mean, what's happening here?

496
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.980
So...

497
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.340
Like there's a there's a character thing.

498
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.420
Here's Tilly and Tilly was in charge of the ship.

499
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:50.039
I do too, when when it was taken over, and this is her in a leadership role, and that's part of her ongoing art.

500
00:34:50.099 --> 00:35:00.780
You know what I like about her is it actually shows how things have changed because, and I'm not going to make any disparaging remarks about how she looks because there's plenty of people out there doing that unless appalling.

501
00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:10.019
Back in the day, they were told to starve themselves, essentially, in 90s to squeeze into those thin uniforms.

502
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:12.539
So they all had to be athletic and blah, blah, blah.

503
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:13.980
And, you know, she isn't.

504
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.380
And it's wonderful to see. frankly.

505
00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:22.679
So she's recently come out as queer Mary Wiseman, and she was on the front cover of a magazine.

506
00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:29.159
I think it might have been Atitude magazine in the US, which had lots of covers of all of the queer cast of Discovery.

507
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:43.920
And she, she, I think we retweeted it from the untitled trek Twitter thing, but she was just talking about how gorgeous she looked and how she was kicking off. the actress and the character they just own themselves, don't they?

508
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:44.519
And it's wonderful.

509
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:53.039
It's also that she is more like a real person than maybe nearly any other Star Trek character.

510
00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:55.320
She's like someone you know.

511
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:58.860
And even though she's sort of girly.

512
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:05.159
Like I love her in that, um, in the time loop episode in series one where she's drinking and eyeing off soldiers and stuff.

513
00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:07.860
I love it when they started...

514
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.559
I have an evil costume in the mirror universe.

515
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:17.460
Do you remember, and forget me, not, where she was talking about the big fight that they've had at the dinner table.

516
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:19.440
She said, you know, on my place.

517
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:21.300
This is just a regular Tuesday or whatever.

518
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:23.219
It was the closest we've come to this before.

519
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:24.599
Latter-day Dax.

520
00:36:24.659 --> 00:36:27.420
It was a bit of a party animal, bisexual.

521
00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:28.079
Yeah, she is.

522
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:37.500
But she's a little bit more reserved, whereas Tilly is, you know, Mouthian kind of slightly enough.

523
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.659
Like, I think people found her annoying initially.

524
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:41.400
But I think she's tremendous.

525
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:43.320
It's a great character.

526
00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:52.559
I'm properly embarrassed because I literally, as I was watching this episode last night, one of my 1st questions was going to be, that actor is so good.

527
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:53.400
Who is it?

528
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:57.480
And it's, and it's, it's, it's so good.

529
00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:59.699
I didn't even realise I've been watching him for the last 4 years.

530
00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:02.280
He's wonderful, isn't he?

531
00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:18.179
It's so great And so that thing is clearly a device just to get him out of makeup, but it also creates that sense of unreality where the roles that they play as different races are all kind of swapped.

532
00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:23.219
It makes it more theatrical or distances it from reality.

533
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:27.059
And it kind of we keep coming towards this.

534
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:35.579
I can't, um, I can't imagine a reason for the burn that isn't that.

535
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:38.159
You want it, it needs to be an accident.

536
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:40.860
Well, it needs to be an accident.

537
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:42.719
And that's what I don't like about it.

538
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:43.920
I want to be deliberate.

539
00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:48.059
I think, I mean, the fact it's an accident, it makes it just feel so insubstantial.

540
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:50.519
Yeah, yeah.

541
00:37:50.579 --> 00:38:09.300
But the site of the accident is a place where Saru comes to play out the themes of the show in a mythical realm where there's this fabulous scary monster, the kelp monster.

542
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.619
Everything's seaweed.

543
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:16.619
I wonder when they were right in this season, you know, they were actually thinking, you know, in their writer's room, are people going to go with this?

544
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:18.960
Like, is this is this going to satisfy people?

545
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:28.860
Yeah, I mean, I just, I think that they needed to discover the burn, the source of the burn.

546
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:30.480
That was a good plot arc.

547
00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:32.460
It needed to not be.

548
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:34.739
I hate this makeup that a deer has gone.

549
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:36.840
Oh wait, I really like that.

550
00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:38.579
She looks like a character, a f escape.

551
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:47.039
So she was, do you remember there's a princess at the end of series 2 who is in the very 1st short trek, Poe, and I can't remember the name of the race.

552
00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:48.360
It's super annoying, isn't it?

553
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:52.500
It's just in it for an episode or...

554
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:53.159
Towards the end.

555
00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:55.380
Maybe I'm thinking about Falscape now.

556
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.239
I think Gray makes an adorable Vulcan.

557
00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:01.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

558
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.420
I think they're poison is beautiful.

559
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:06.360
Well, he's so elf and normally.

560
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.619
So the pointy years work.

561
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:09.659
Do you know what's lovely about him?

562
00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:10.800
He's lovely, deep voice.

563
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:12.840
He's got a really beautiful voice.

564
00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:16.260
He's really serene too.

565
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:17.280
I just love it.

566
00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:26.699
He's a little bit distressed here because obviously he's going to stop being seen and that's working towards a plot in series four.

567
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.000
You know, like, you know, I have many reservations about the show.

568
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:38.400
I think that is the greatest strength of discovery. is finally, Star Trek is for everybody. everybody is included.

569
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:41.280
It's not, you know, like 90s strength.

570
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:43.860
No, you know, black people are here, you're included.

571
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:44.820
Not the gays, though.

572
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:45.539
You're right.

573
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:46.440
You head over, yeah.

574
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.460
It's lovely.

575
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.940
You can be part of a very special episode if you're lucky.

576
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:54.780
Yeah, you know, they won't air it in the southern states, you know.

577
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:56.280
Yeah, that's right.

578
00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:01.679
And there'll be this huge controversy and we'll have to close off the set for the kiss and what the hell?

579
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:11.280
Now, here is the ridiculous techno babble that explains how a crying child can set off the burn.

580
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:14.099
But, I mean, come on.

581
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:15.719
There's nothing more Star Trek than this.

582
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:18.000
No, no, no, absolutely.

583
00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:19.739
And it doesn't go on for too long.

584
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:23.519
It is just a few lines and I don't care.

585
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:33.960
It's magic and it's the distress of someone who is isolated, which has resonated throughout the galaxy and that's how the galaxy feels right now.

586
00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:50.099
It feels like this where there are planets where, you know, like Trill and Navarre, like even Earth has turned into this place that's completely isolated, that's fearful of facing what's outside.

587
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:53.519
And so I like...

588
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:57.960
The difference is, though, in, you know, in a next generation, this would just be one single way.

589
00:40:58.019 --> 00:41:00.059
It would be Sarzhenka, you know, on the planet.

590
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.239
Not protect the babble, and it would just be a one off.

591
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:10.320
But unfortunately, this time, the dreadful technobabble explanation has a huge impact on the entire series.

592
00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:11.940
Yeah.

593
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.099
What about what about Futu Imperfect?

594
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:15.300
Was it Future and Perfect?

595
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:16.619
The one where the kid?

596
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.119
is in the holodeck and he's by himself and he tries to get himself a dad or whatever.

597
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.980
Twist after twist, isn't it?

598
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:23.519
Like, yeah.

599
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:23.880
Yeah.

600
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:25.920
Yeah, that's a good episode that, you know.

601
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:26.699
Yeah.

602
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.280
But I mean, this obviously borrows from that as well.

603
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:40.380
I love, there's that shot about how the world is degrading, where it's being shot through a crack in the wall and as they talk about it, the crack in the wall widens, like bits of it fall off.

604
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:45.179
I disagree that this is poorly directed.

605
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:47.039
I think it's magnificently well directed.

606
00:41:47.099 --> 00:41:49.139
I said it was poorly directed.

607
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:52.260
I think Jammer was not particularly happy with it.

608
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:56.039
And people complain about the camera work, but I mean, oh, no, no.

609
00:41:56.039 --> 00:42:02.340
You complain about the camera work when, you know, taking giddy sickness tablets just to get for a scene.

610
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:04.019
There's none of that going on.

611
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.000
I think he called the camera work obnoxious.

612
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:07.800
Which is a very strong word for this.

613
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:14.940
Well, I think that's this is television now, and it's not...

614
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:17.280
I don't think all television has...

615
00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:18.539
I don't think all TV.

616
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:19.980
No, no, no, no, no, no.

617
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.320
It does look incredible.

618
00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:24.719
Like, you know, our other favourite, Doctor Who.

619
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:26.159
It has a fair budget.

620
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:29.519
They could not do... attempt for what they're doing here.

621
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.139
Yeah.

622
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:31.860
Yeah.

623
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:39.420
And but to sell action, you need to, you know, the way that we do that now is, can I just shake your camera work?

624
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:46.199
point out that there is a gust blowing through this corridor that is making Tilly's hair flow beautifully.

625
00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:49.139
I mean, she's never had more heroic, has she?

626
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:58.619
Well, I mean, they've turned the life support off, so the oxygen's coming out with the added benefit of making, oh, debt maze. going to contradict what you're about.

627
00:42:58.679 --> 00:42:59.760
Who the hell are these nobody?

628
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:00.960
She's in this corridor with.

629
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:03.179
I mean, I don't know, any of these bunches.

630
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:04.800
I know you don't know.

631
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:05.699
I know that is.

632
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:06.599
Yeah.

633
00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:09.599
And you know who Oa Shakun is, don't you?

634
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:11.099
Like Joanna Oishakun?

635
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:11.880
Why I do?

636
00:43:11.940 --> 00:43:19.739
But all I know is that every now and again, the 2 of them look longingly across the room at each other and it's like, are they in a relationship?

637
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.179
No.

638
00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:23.099
Is it just a very strong friendship?

639
00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:27.960
Because it feels like every every episode I've watched, they're just staring longingly at each other.

640
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:28.260
So.

641
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:31.980
And then we've got Bryce and Reese, both of whom are quite pretty.

642
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.400
And then we have another woman who I don't know who she is.

643
00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:44.280
I mean, I did like the action between Burnham and the Green Woman, because I just love Girl and Go action, and that's not as kinky as it sounds, all right?

644
00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:50.880
Although, there's that appalling bit where they try and convince you that Burnham has been killed. and I'm just like, really?

645
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:59.699
Well, you know, that's a staple of. just waiting for a bit where the bolt's going to come through and take out, you know, the Orion woman.

646
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.559
I mean, look at it.

647
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:03.960
I mean, look at like as an affection.

648
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:05.940
Now I love this.

649
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.719
This is incredible.

650
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:12.840
So I always wondered how the Turbo Lifts worked in Star Trek the Next Generation.

651
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:17.340
Like, is there a network of tubes throughout the ship, then they run along the tubes thing?

652
00:44:17.340 --> 00:44:19.079
And Discovery's way of solving this.

653
00:44:19.139 --> 00:44:32.760
And this isn't just 31st century technology because it happens inside the enterprise in the 23rd century is that they float in this massive, weird, incomprehensible space.

654
00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:35.219
How does it even fit in the shit?

655
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.380
Is that what they're suggesting that was happening in next gym?

656
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.480
Oh, no, no, no, because we actually go up the shafts, don't we?

657
00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:43.500
We go off a lift shop.

658
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:44.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

659
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:45.179
We climb up the shafts.

660
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:46.440
Your favourite, remember?

661
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:46.920
Disaster.

662
00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:48.239
They go up all the kids.

663
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:49.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

664
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:49.980
Yeah, I'd forgotten that.

665
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:51.300
And they do it in some of the movies too.

666
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.480
But this is so visually great that I don't give a shit.

667
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:58.920
Like, what we're asking for is it should really be more boring.

668
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:03.420
You know, like let's have tubes and instead it's like visually, really interesting.

669
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:15.420
And there's a shot here where these things that they go through are actually appearing, they're being created out of programmable matter as they go along, which does seem extravagant. extravagant.

670
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:17.820
That's a fair word for this episode.

671
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:21.059
So, okay, well, then my question to you is this.

672
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:30.000
If this is more visually stimulating than some of the movies, is it that the movies aren't as visually ambitious as this?

673
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:50.219
Well, obviously the technology is better, but I also think that, um, because I think that it's, it's a Kurtzman Trek thing, and I don't know who it comes from, but they absolutely want it to look as, well, I look as good as it possibly can.

674
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:55.980
Like, I just feel like that budget is no, no barrier with Kersman trip.

675
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:59.940
Yeah, but it's also like this is look at that set.

676
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.360
That set for the computer core is stunning.

677
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:05.280
Holy crap, it's beautiful.

678
00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:08.760
And, you know, I complain about reflective surfaces in 90s track.

679
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.900
There's plenty there.

680
00:46:10.019 --> 00:46:12.420
Look at the reflective surface.

681
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:13.679
A camera better stay still.

682
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:15.960
Otherwise, it's better be seen in one of those surfaces.

683
00:46:16.019 --> 00:46:17.340
Oh my.

684
00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:18.300
It's beautiful.

685
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:19.559
I mean, don't get me wrong.

686
00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:25.800
This is all, this all, this action is all very good, but I remember as I was watching it, I was just going, is this still going on?

687
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:35.940
Like, you know, but but I think that had 90s trick been able to do this, it would have settled for it.

688
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.280
It's hard to say.

689
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:41.219
Because big episodes, that's what they go for.

690
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.840
So, yeah.

691
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:49.320
You know, they're more action-y. but in a sort of stately and not very good world.

692
00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:58.739
So, like, compare the beginning of descent part one, which we looked at where there's that firefight, which is so listless.

693
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:03.119
It's all just like, someone comes out from behind a console, ducks away again.

694
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.619
That's it.

695
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.119
We just stand there shooting.

696
00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:13.920
There are like, do you remember the CGMAR 558 where they poured a lot of money into a big action set piece?

697
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:15.659
And it was kind of chaotic.

698
00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:19.019
And you couldn't really, there wasn't any narrative to it.

699
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:22.079
It was just ugly and nasty and there was just a lot of death.

700
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.260
Um, but even that's different to this.

701
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.739
Like there is kind of a narrative to all the action.

702
00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:40.860
One of the things that discovery does, I think, is it, it does the heist thing where it makes it very clear to you what this is for.

703
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:51.420
So Burnham is going to the data core to reset the computer because it's running an Orion operating system.

704
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:59.099
And the others are trying to detach the Nassell to bring them out of warp.

705
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:03.119
And it's made clear what we're trying to do and why.

706
00:48:03.179 --> 00:48:04.679
And then the action happens.

707
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:05.820
And they always do that.

708
00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:15.599
And I think they set up action sequences right from the very 1st episode where something strange is happening and we're finding a new way to use technology or something to do it.

709
00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:20.099
I don't think that discovery just devolves into everyone stands around shooting one another.

710
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:25.079
Well, I mean, like, you know, thank you very much for the explanations because the action goes on so fucking long.

711
00:48:25.139 --> 00:48:28.019
I forget after the time what they're trying to do, you know?

712
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:31.800
But I think there's another thing, right?

713
00:48:31.860 --> 00:49:02.940
And it's a Doctor Who fandom thing as well, that because our shows had no budget in particular, and therefore they consisted in Doctor Who's case of lots of standing, talking urgently in corridors, and in Star Trek's case of sitting around a table talking urgently about space problems, we decided that that was a virtue rather than a problem problem.

714
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.539
And the shows themselves made it a virtue.

715
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:11.039
And so they tried to work given that framework.

716
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:25.380
And I think, though, and I've said this before, part of television's job is to be television, that it can't just be a televised radio player, a televised stage play.

717
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.340
It's got to put striking visuals on screen.

718
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:39.719
And that's something that Kurtzman Trek does and something that 90s Trek really doesn't do that much of or that well.

719
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:41.400
I think it can.

720
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.019
I don't think it has to.

721
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:49.920
And I said it in the Power Moonlight, which we agreed, was basically set within one room and I'm sorry.

722
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:53.039
I think it's a 1000000 times more interesting than this.

723
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.940
But I was so invested in that.

724
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.460
Whereas with this, I just kept switching off.

725
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:07.019
Well, I'm more invested in it, I think, because I've watched the season all the way through and I kind of know all these characters.

726
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:15.659
You know, that that horrible guy who, um, book kicks out of the turbo lift is the evil guy who was menacing Tilly in episode two.

727
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:22.679
Um, you know, there's all sorts of characters that have come back and things that are happening and stuff.

728
00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:27.059
So I care about these these characters and what's happening here.

729
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:33.900
And because I've watched the 1st 2 episodes and like last week's episode, I think, was really well done action.

730
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:36.000
But I like the weirdness too.

731
00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:37.679
And we talked about this in forget me or not.

732
00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:47.940
I, you know, the Troll Planet was stunning and all the kite, I don't know where they were in the pools and they were going through, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and all that was very weird and interesting.

733
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:49.800
I don't object to any of that.

734
00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:51.119
I don't know if you actually are looking pretty.

735
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:55.199
I don't object to it, you know, being a bit in your face.

736
00:50:55.260 --> 00:51:05.639
I feel like, like in this, it was just constantly stuffing things down my neck and I was just like, just stay still for a minute, you know, and just like, let me take in what's going on.

737
00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:13.800
Well, you know, like if you want sort of stately trek where they're all standing around talking, there's 100s of episodes of that.

738
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:14.699
Not all the time.

739
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.380
Yeah, it was just it was a lot.

740
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:18.719
It was a lot happening with a lot of people.

741
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:20.940
A lot of imagery.

742
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:22.320
Yeah.

743
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.300
A lot of experience, my best of both.

744
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:25.260
A lot of tech that babble.

745
00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:26.820
Think about...

746
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:35.340
Yeah, but I think that Star Trek wants to do that even in the 90s, but just can't afford to and just isn't good at it.

747
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:42.119
And so it finds a groove where it can just cheaply have all of our regular cars standing around the standing set.

748
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:53.880
And we create an episode out of that. duet would be a better episode if they literally threw weird visuals at you and action and all of that nonsense.

749
00:51:53.940 --> 00:52:00.480
Like, no, it's 2 people in a room and it means something and...

750
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:06.000
But they, they create a way of doing that, that work.

751
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:08.280
It doesn't always work.

752
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:10.440
Yes, through the acting.

753
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:19.559
But, um, I think that that's not what you would want all the time, even in 90s.

754
00:52:19.619 --> 00:52:21.119
Well, no, because they push away from it, isn't they?

755
00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:24.420
When they can afford to do CGI action, they absolutely do it.

756
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:24.840
Exactly.

757
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:25.800
Yeah.

758
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:30.360
Things like duet and in the pale moonlight are not run-of-the-mill trek.

759
00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:46.199
They are super special where they decide, or, you know, things like counterpoint and stuff where they're going to, they're going to base an episode around the acting performances of 2 characters, and they partly do that because they don't have very much money.

760
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:51.900
And so they lean into what they can afford to do and sometimes they do a spectacular job of it.

761
00:52:51.960 --> 00:53:03.059
Whereas here, they can afford to do action and they can afford to make it exciting in a way that 90s Shrek often couldn't.

762
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:10.260
And do you remember at the time when Star Trek The Next Generation came out and people would talk about how it was just people?

763
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:12.179
It was just nothing else like it, was there?

764
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:14.280
But I'm, that's true.

765
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:16.920
And I remember thinking it was very cinematic at the time.

766
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:21.059
But it was just lots of speechifying people giving speeches.

767
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:22.920
He's Patrick Stewart giving a giant speech.

768
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:26.880
Terrible speeches as well, you know. loneliness speeches, you know?

769
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:34.260
But remember that that 60s trek wants to be more action-y. 90s tracks.

770
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:36.239
It was to be very fucking weird at times.

771
00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:37.440
Hands coming down.

772
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.260
You know, Abraham Lincoln floating through space.

773
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:41.400
Yeah.

774
00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:44.340
And this wants to be that as well.

775
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:48.239
And so the... yeah, go.

776
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:49.019
I know.

777
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.900
I mean, we're never going to agree on this point, are we?

778
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.340
But it's interesting to talk about.

779
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:56.760
It's like having up, I said to you, this is like confection, yeah?

780
00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:59.280
It's just, it's, it's delicious.

781
00:53:59.340 --> 00:53:59.820
Yeah.

782
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:06.719
But like, someone could buy me a big box of chocolates, yeah. and I'll eat 5 or 6 and that's wonderful.

783
00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:09.840
If I eat a whole box, then I feel sick as a dog.

784
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:12.840
And I feel as if I eaten a whole box of chocolates by the end of this.

785
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:15.179
It was just it was too much.

786
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:19.139
But the show isn't always like this.

787
00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:24.840
This is the season finale, and this is their big action set piece to end the season.

788
00:54:24.900 --> 00:54:30.360
And, you know, because I've complained in this series one that it was all very underwhelming and there weren't enough action.

789
00:54:31.019 --> 00:54:33.059
You can't win with me.

790
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:43.260
So we had episodes like Forget Me Not, or the one on Navarre that were very talky and very character focussed.

791
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:47.099
And now we just have our big blowing things up thing to end the season.

792
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:49.139
What's the planet of Saru's planet?

793
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:50.519
What's that called?

794
00:54:50.579 --> 00:54:54.179
That episode was just stunning.

795
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:55.980
With his, was it his sister?

796
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:57.420
Yeah.

797
00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:59.159
Oh, man, it was so beautiful.

798
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:06.480
But it did like it absolutely slow. the pace down and made it just in pretty much entirely carrot focussed.

799
00:55:06.539 --> 00:55:14.039
And so and so the show has only like 13 episodes a year or sometimes a bit more or whatever.

800
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:18.000
And this, I mean, this is slow.

801
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:20.099
This is not full of action.

802
00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:22.679
There's a B plot. set in a haunted house.

803
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:35.940
That's a bizarre juxtaposition that you've got all of this mental action taking place and then these kind of samey dialogue scenes occurring in this in this hologram.

804
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.880
It's like, it's like fast, fast, fast, slow.

805
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:39.780
Fast, fast, fast.

806
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.400
That's, but that's the sort of thing that only Star Trek can do.

807
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:45.360
That's what I want.

808
00:55:45.420 --> 00:55:48.119
I want Star Trek to do weird things.

809
00:55:48.179 --> 00:55:53.820
And here, what we have is this little family being reconstructed around him.

810
00:55:53.880 --> 00:56:06.239
And there's a beautiful line, and it's so simple and it's a little bit cliche, where he kind of realises he's on his own, his family have died, his mother is dead, in what is it really, kind of horrific scene, we'll get there.

811
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:12.659
Um, and, and, you know, I think, Hugh, maybe just says you have us.

812
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:16.079
And that's what the show is about.

813
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:18.360
An entire...

814
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:20.699
That little family, you know, have they done that?

815
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:23.159
They're like, oh, they should.

816
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.300
They absolutely should.

817
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:31.500
Um, you know, it's interesting because you were talking about sort of the fantasy led, the various tale aspects of this.

818
00:56:31.619 --> 00:56:36.420
And I think like discovery leads into that a lot, you know?

819
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.059
Whereas Picard far less.

820
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:42.179
Picard is more of a bit like sort of Blade Runner, isn't it?

821
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:44.579
It's a picture of the future.

822
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.619
It's more technology about.

823
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:48.840
Oh no, you had those weird flowers like in the last one.

824
00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:54.360
And there's a few bits and bulbs, but generally speaking, it's a lot less fancy based than this.

825
00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:55.260
Yeah.

826
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:56.760
Yeah.

827
00:56:57.300 --> 00:57:01.079
Well, no, but I think Berman Trek prefers it.

828
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:10.679
And I think Berman Trek reacts against the weirdness of original series Trek and maybe the weirdness of early next gen as well. not calling it Burman Trek anymore, right?

829
00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:11.820
Calling it 90s trek.

830
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:13.260
Bad taste in the mouth.

831
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:14.880
Yeah, yeah.

832
00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:25.860
Yeah, so like 90s Shrek is a little bit more state and a bit limited in what it's going to do and it will do weird stuff.

833
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:31.440
I do think we can criticise it for that because that's where TV was at the time, you know, like, sure.

834
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:39.900
And we love we love it, you know, but I'm glad that when it came back, you know, now, we get something much weirder.

835
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:48.659
I'm glad that they have the capacity to put, well, 5 now, 5 very different Star Trek shows out.

836
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:51.599
There is a Star Trek to suit every person.

837
00:57:51.659 --> 00:57:52.920
Whatever you want.

838
00:57:52.980 --> 00:57:53.760
Do you want fantasy?

839
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:54.780
Watch discovery.

840
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.219
Do you want something more serious?

841
00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:57.000
Watch Picard.

842
00:57:57.059 --> 00:58:01.679
Do you want something that is kind of a little bit, kids, go watch prodigy?

843
00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:04.019
You want to laugh your head off or watch lower decks?

844
00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:05.400
Strangely worlds.

845
00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:06.300
And then we'll have.

846
00:58:06.420 --> 00:58:07.860
Well, you want something episodic?

847
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.599
there we go Yeah, yeah, yeah.

848
00:58:09.659 --> 00:58:10.079
Yeah.

849
00:58:10.139 --> 00:58:15.780
I think it'll be a bit more serialised than that because I don't think you can do just episodic anymore.

850
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.440
I don't think we could ever have something like Star Trek the Next Generation.

851
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:20.880
And you wouldn't want it.

852
00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:24.420
That thing where they just forget what happened to them last week every week.

853
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:26.760
I think is a bit stupid.

854
00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:28.500
This is awful, isn't it?

855
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:38.340
Like, they've aged the actor down to play, like, this, it's like a kid, but they've stuck that guy's CGI head.

856
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.360
You'll use it.

857
00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:40.619
You said you wanted weird.

858
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:44.460
I know, absolutely.

859
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:50.579
But the dying mother, like it was a radiation burn. that's what he looks like With big eyes.

860
00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:56.699
But the mother is like, that's super upsetting.

861
00:58:56.760 --> 00:59:00.900
It's like quite horrible and now we're going to see the cause of the burn.

862
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:11.039
And the cause of the burn is someone who is just completely isolated and we've had isolation versus connection all the way through.

863
00:59:11.099 --> 00:59:18.599
And so if it's going to be an accident, it's an accident that ties into the theme, not just of this series, but of this show.

864
00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:22.860
I was, I was kept waiting for another twist.

865
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:28.260
I was like, no, no, it wasn't, it was really the Romulans screaming out for his mother dying.

866
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:33.300
But actually, this is where, yeah, the ship swoops in and courses the back.

867
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:35.340
No, genuinely what's that?

868
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:36.480
Yeah.

869
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:38.400
I mean, it's the state.

870
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:39.059
It's unique.

871
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:41.519
I don't like it, but it is distinct.

872
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:47.039
But I just can't imagine a space reasons thing that would have been more satisfying.

873
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:52.920
I think I need to, I really want to go out and see what the reaction was.

874
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:56.579
And for once, I very rarely want to go onto the internet and see what people think.

875
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.820
But this is so I can imagine divisive.

876
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:02.639
I don't yeah, I don't know.

877
01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:03.659
I don't know.

878
01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:13.619
Like I said, I thought it was a weird, strange, unexpected choice, but rewatching the 3 parter over the last week just sells me on it.

879
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:17.460
I think it's exactly what they should have done.

880
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:19.920
And what else can they do?

881
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:28.860
I think once once it's a villain doing it, then we have a regular villain and that's not what this show wants to do.

882
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:30.059
They're kind of like...

883
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:35.400
But that's what, oh, yeah, I'll keep comparing this to 90s. that's what 9 Trek was doing all the time, wasn't it?

884
01:00:35.460 --> 01:00:36.539
was terrible things happen.

885
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:38.579
It was one of our major powers involved.

886
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:41.639
The Touchiar or whoever, you know.

887
01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:48.059
There is an anxiety around power sources in this show.

888
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:51.239
And I, well, not just dilithium.

889
01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:57.239
Remember that the emperor had a big galaxy destroying power source?

890
01:00:57.300 --> 01:00:58.500
What's the parallel?

891
01:00:58.559 --> 01:00:59.519
They want nuclear energy?

892
01:00:59.699 --> 01:01:07.320
No, I think that there's stuff about fossil fuels and fear about dependency.

893
01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:22.679
So remember that we depend on a small number of countries for most of our fossil fuel and the whole thing about that creates anxiety.

894
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:24.119
There's all sorts of diplomatic stuff.

895
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:25.500
I think that's absolutely here.

896
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:28.320
I think explicit changes in forming this.

897
01:01:28.380 --> 01:01:29.639
No reading.

898
01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:31.920
But there's scarcity around power.

899
01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:40.079
And, you know, the whole point is there's no dilithium left or very little dilithium we've run out of dilithium.

900
01:01:40.139 --> 01:01:49.980
And we've been put in a situation where dilithium can't be safely used because it will create a, you know, a galaxy destroying cataclysm.

901
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:51.539
How are they powering their ships now then?

902
01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:54.119
So they are using dilithium.

903
01:01:54.179 --> 01:02:00.119
There's a bit of dilithium, but not very much, and the dilithium scarcity gets solved here because it's a whole planet.

904
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:00.780
Okay.

905
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:01.199
Yeah, yeah.

906
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:04.980
So going forward, is that just basically going to be, well, we've got dilithium now.

907
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:05.760
Let's go.

908
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:18.599
Well, in fact, the 1st the 1st scene of series 4 has book and Michael bringing dilithium to a very, very impressively weird looking planner.

909
01:02:18.659 --> 01:02:23.159
It's a great scene, a really good action scene that's properly funny.

910
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:25.500
Well, now I've seen this.

911
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:28.800
I should probably watch series four, you know, and keep going.

912
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:31.079
I'm really enjoying it.

913
01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:38.400
There's one thing that we're not enjoying whilst we're watching this and that is the music of this episode.

914
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:41.639
And I think I think the music, you are right.

915
01:02:41.699 --> 01:02:45.539
Music across the board in Kursman Trek is extremely...

916
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.880
Oh, there's soundtracks, because I think I'd quite like to get some soundtrack.

917
01:02:47.940 --> 01:02:48.539
Yeah, there are.

918
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:49.800
I have to buy that.

919
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:55.739
And there's a piece in a minute and I actually messaged you and said, my God, there's something I've actually enjoyed.

920
01:02:55.980 --> 01:03:01.920
And that was where he goes to turn the hologram off and it's like a, it is very fairy tale.

921
01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:06.900
It's like this very light, playful piece of music as he goes to put his hand down on the thing.

922
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:15.059
And I felt something because of the music, not because of the content, really, not because of the writing, but the music.

923
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:18.179
Mate, it made me imote.

924
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:18.599
Yeah.

925
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:22.559
I think I think the music is astonishingly good.

926
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:26.280
And it's something that 90s Streak is generally very bad at.

927
01:03:26.340 --> 01:03:37.619
Um, and, well, you know, like with the odd notable exception, uh, we've said before that 90s trek music is mostly to tell you where there's a commercial break.

928
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:42.000
There's more diversity. and there's just more emotion in the music.

929
01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:43.320
Oh, no, it's better.

930
01:03:43.380 --> 01:03:49.199
So this is Jeff Rasso. who does the um the theme as well.

931
01:03:49.440 --> 01:04:02.219
But they've also had Michael Giacchino, who created the, um, theme to the Star Trek, um, you know, the recent 3 Star Trek movies sort of reason.

932
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:05.280
And so they have good composers.

933
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:07.199
And I just think the music is stunningly good.

934
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:10.320
So does Saru look after this man child now then?

935
01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:12.360
Is that where the series goes?

936
01:04:12.420 --> 01:04:13.380
So he's a regular.

937
01:04:13.980 --> 01:04:21.780
He's not a regular, and but he does turn up, and you've seen the end of this.

938
01:04:21.780 --> 01:04:30.780
Saru goes back to Kaminar with him, which is what his mother asked for in the hologram.

939
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.860
And we do see Saru re-engaging with Kaminara as well.

940
01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:35.760
Oh, okay.

941
01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:37.920
So is he there permanently in series 4?

942
01:04:37.980 --> 01:04:38.579
Or is he?

943
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:39.119
No.

944
01:04:39.179 --> 01:04:42.420
So he does come back and he becomes the 1st officer.

945
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:44.940
And because he's a captain as well.

946
01:04:45.059 --> 01:04:55.019
They tend to call him Mr. Saru, which I just think is spectacular, like Mr. Spock. it's so good Oh hang on a minute.

947
01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:55.500
Hang on.

948
01:04:55.559 --> 01:05:03.300
I think I think we, oh, have I completely missed a bit where they're all kind of given each other dough eyes because they've all...

949
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:05.519
They're like the family back together.

950
01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:09.179
Yeah, I love that, though.

951
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:10.739
A bit much for me.

952
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:14.039
I love I love seeing Michael Shake.

953
01:05:14.099 --> 01:05:21.900
There are some things that like I thought that the end of series 2 was too weepy and that series 2 leaned into... yeah, yeah.

954
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:23.639
It really annoyed me.

955
01:05:23.699 --> 01:05:32.340
But, you know, Michael, like Sanequa is an incredible actor and has the most beautiful smile.

956
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:33.599
She lights up the screen.

957
01:05:33.659 --> 01:05:34.139
Here we go.

958
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:36.119
She's disconnectionally charming.

959
01:05:36.179 --> 01:05:37.800
That's how this future began.

960
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:45.480
One moment in time that radiated outward, though, until no one even remembered the connection was possible when him.

961
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:46.920
See when I say it, it's even worse.

962
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:52.320
We've got these slow motion shots of them all connected.

963
01:05:52.380 --> 01:05:55.079
There's Detmar connecting with Oo.

964
01:05:55.139 --> 01:05:55.800
Look at them.

965
01:05:55.860 --> 01:05:59.099
I mean, there is such a thing of subtlety, right?

966
01:05:59.159 --> 01:05:59.579
You know?

967
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:00.780
Yeah.

968
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:04.980
But, you know, like...

969
01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:05.760
This I can buy.

970
01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:07.559
We want to see it.

971
01:06:07.739 --> 01:06:09.480
And you know what?

972
01:06:09.539 --> 01:06:14.940
There's, there's, there's a, there's a wonderful, I said this to you in, forget me not, about burning.

973
01:06:15.059 --> 01:06:15.300
This is.

974
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:20.340
There's a wonderful kind of relaxed warmth about her in this season.

975
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:23.280
And I said to you in a message, she's way better this year.

976
01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:25.320
I really like her this year.

977
01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:28.739
And if nothing else, they've turned me around on that.

978
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:31.440
I still don't like the fact that she's the captain because I want Saru back.

979
01:06:31.619 --> 01:06:36.360
Yeah, and look, here's um, here's our trill woman from Forget Me Not.

980
01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:42.840
She's come back. to uh, yeah, yes, shake hands and rejoin the federation. as ever.

981
01:06:42.900 --> 01:06:43.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

982
01:06:43.739 --> 01:06:45.599
Forward straight from equilibrium.

983
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:48.119
And here's the lady from Navarre.

984
01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:52.500
See, I I really enjoyed this last 10 minutes.

985
01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:55.320
And it felt like we were stepping off.

986
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:55.920
Look at that shot.

987
01:06:55.980 --> 01:06:57.480
Look at that shot.

988
01:06:57.539 --> 01:06:59.579
It's beautiful.

989
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:01.800
It is.

990
01:07:01.860 --> 01:07:07.920
And it felt like it felt like we were heading into an optimistic future with the show, you know?

991
01:07:07.980 --> 01:07:12.300
We just had to get over the end of this tedious arc to get there.

992
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:12.659
Oh, sorry.

993
01:07:13.500 --> 01:07:16.380
I mean, this arc was about that, wasn't it?

994
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:21.659
It was about concentrating that down into a fairy tale and getting these negotiations to play out.

995
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:22.980
This is Lieutenant Sahil.

996
01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:29.280
He was the man in the 1st episode of series 3 in the 1st shot who was by himself.

997
01:07:29.340 --> 01:07:32.699
Yeah, that scene was waiting for the Federation to come.

998
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:41.699
And that's why this is called that hope is you part 2 because Michael came along, met him, gave him hope for the Federation, and now here he is.

999
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:43.440
She's joined the federal.

1000
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:45.659
Put all those episodes in between.

1001
01:07:45.659 --> 01:07:48.000
The 2 two, the 2 episodes.

1002
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:54.840
I think calling I think calling the Navarre episode unification part 3 is cheeky.

1003
01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:57.719
No, if you want cheeky.

1004
01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:59.039
It's those lower deck tiles.

1005
01:07:59.099 --> 01:07:59.639
What is it?

1006
01:07:59.699 --> 01:08:02.099
We'd always have Tom Paris or something.

1007
01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:05.400
So good.

1008
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:06.780
But do you know what as well?

1009
01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:07.860
This gives me hope.

1010
01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:11.820
Because look, what we've got in these last 10 minutes, loads of people standing around in space rooms.

1011
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:12.480
Yay.

1012
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:13.199
Yay!

1013
01:08:13.260 --> 01:08:14.159
That's right.

1014
01:08:14.219 --> 01:08:15.300
That's what I always wanted.

1015
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:18.359
It's a beautiful shot too.

1016
01:08:18.420 --> 01:08:24.000
I think they're doing the thing that they must do on the Mandalorian where that's not, I don't know.

1017
01:08:24.060 --> 01:08:25.739
Maybe it is keyed in afterwards.

1018
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:29.520
But, you know, is it playing on a big screen?

1019
01:08:29.579 --> 01:08:30.539
That's Admiral Van.

1020
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.340
I really want to fuck him. you know, he's beautiful.

1021
01:08:32.460 --> 01:08:33.960
He's really handsome.

1022
01:08:34.020 --> 01:08:34.859
Yeah.

1023
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:37.079
Sorry for saying that, but he's true.

1024
01:08:37.140 --> 01:08:39.300
No, it's a thing.

1025
01:08:39.539 --> 01:08:42.000
Yeah, I think he's terrific.

1026
01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:43.439
And I love that he's a regular.

1027
01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:46.380
I love that there are people here.

1028
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:49.260
And the way that he's warm to Michael.

1029
01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:52.800
Like, I have objected to this episode a fair amount.

1030
01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:56.039
But I'm not saying the building blocks of this city.

1031
01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.199
I think going into the future was a great idea.

1032
01:08:58.260 --> 01:09:01.199
I think rebuilding the Federation is a great idea.

1033
01:09:01.260 --> 01:09:05.819
I think that going forward, they could do some really interesting things.

1034
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:13.260
I'm not sure they did it in the 2nd half of this season, but going forward, they absolutely, the potential is there, you know?

1035
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.100
Yeah.

1036
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:17.880
Well, I'm really enjoying series 4, which is on at the moment.

1037
01:09:17.939 --> 01:09:19.739
Is Georgia back?

1038
01:09:19.739 --> 01:09:20.939
Terribly interesting.

1039
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:21.720
No.

1040
01:09:21.779 --> 01:09:24.659
And there's some more upsetting issues.

1041
01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:25.739
We need an arsehole in this show.

1042
01:09:25.739 --> 01:09:27.479
Every, what, what?

1043
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:29.460
No, no, no, it's fine.

1044
01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:29.939
Okay.

1045
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:30.840
No one's dead.

1046
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:31.319
Oh, okay.

1047
01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:33.420
I thought you were going to tell me something tragic then.

1048
01:09:33.479 --> 01:09:35.460
You do need that.

1049
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:37.680
Like, she brought something to this show.

1050
01:09:37.739 --> 01:09:39.300
They're also bloody nice.

1051
01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.960
Well, she was the Garrick of the show, I think.

1052
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:43.260
Yeah.

1053
01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:43.560
Yeah.

1054
01:09:43.619 --> 01:09:44.460
Yeah.

1055
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:52.739
But whenever, you know, if in the end of this episode where they're all giving each other doe eyes, she'd be the one walking around, she'd be stabbing the odd person.

1056
01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:54.300
Yeah, yeah, she'd make fun of them.

1057
01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:58.140
Yeah, she shoots someone in the head or something, you know, like too much lovey-dabbiness.

1058
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:06.060
I love too, the fact that the future gave us the chance to reinvent our Star Trek looks as well.

1059
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:07.500
Yeah I like that.

1060
01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:17.819
And it, and it, and it, I know we've said this before about how, you know, what's discovery going to look like original pre-original trek technology.

1061
01:10:17.819 --> 01:10:18.300
Yeah.

1062
01:10:18.300 --> 01:10:27.300
It's never going to happen, but this gives an excuse now. that doesn't isn't going to upset all those, you know, those cannon meisters.

1063
01:10:27.420 --> 01:10:31.859
No, I like upsetting those people and I'm sorry that we can't think anymore.

1064
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:32.760
Terrible.

1065
01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:36.659
But look, look.

1066
01:10:36.659 --> 01:10:37.319
Oh, I love her.

1067
01:10:37.380 --> 01:10:38.939
Reno, I think she's great.

1068
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:42.180
Oh, actually, she's the asshole now, isn't she?

1069
01:10:42.300 --> 01:10:44.279
Yeah, yeah, she's terrific.

1070
01:10:44.340 --> 01:10:45.479
She's underused.

1071
01:10:45.539 --> 01:10:47.100
She's only in just a couple of scenes.

1072
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.779
I don't think she even gets a line in this episode.

1073
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:51.479
We don't see enough of her, but she is magnificent.

1074
01:10:51.539 --> 01:10:52.800
There's a reason for that, isn't it?

1075
01:10:52.859 --> 01:10:55.859
I swear I read an interview saying that she don't need done a little bit for a reason.

1076
01:10:56.399 --> 01:10:58.020
I don't know.

1077
01:10:58.380 --> 01:11:02.579
Oh, look in that eye, that shot of her braided hair.

1078
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:04.199
Oh, no, I don't know.

1079
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:06.000
Look, I'm all looking up itself.

1080
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:07.380
Congratulatory.

1081
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:09.659
Well, they're in these uniforms.

1082
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:12.600
These sexy new 31st century uniforms.

1083
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:15.000
Do you think, I think, no visible zippers?

1084
01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:18.000
But you think they came for that sort of plumber look, that Enterprise did.

1085
01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:19.079
They're all gray, you know?

1086
01:11:19.140 --> 01:11:21.659
No, no, no.

1087
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:23.640
They're not one piece suits anymore.

1088
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:26.220
I mean, they had the one piece suits.

1089
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:27.180
Let's fly.

1090
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:28.079
Look.

1091
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:31.140
Smiles, she's so beautiful.

1092
01:11:31.140 --> 01:11:31.859
And the music here.

1093
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:33.899
The, the, the, the, the Trek music.

1094
01:11:33.960 --> 01:11:35.159
Yes, they just...

1095
01:11:35.220 --> 01:11:41.220
Well, in fact, they just do the original trek music for the closing credits. like just a redone version of it.

1096
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:44.279
The splash as it goes through that force field.

1097
01:11:44.340 --> 01:11:45.180
It's so weird.

1098
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:46.020
It's so great.

1099
01:11:46.140 --> 01:11:47.399
I'll tell you what was good about.

1100
01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:48.300
Series 3.

1101
01:11:48.659 --> 01:11:50.220
Oh, another good thing.

1102
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:56.819
The thing I really objected to in series 2 was all of that kind of deep dive into nostalgia and all those old characters and blah, blah.

1103
01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:00.239
It actually gave them a chance to be completely original, didn't it?

1104
01:12:00.300 --> 01:12:02.399
And that was really refreshing.

1105
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:07.859
And basically rebuild Star Trek, post, what would it be?

1106
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:08.520
Post-nemesis?

1107
01:12:08.579 --> 01:12:10.020
Or post Picard now, wouldn't it be?

1108
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:10.619
Yeah.

1109
01:12:10.739 --> 01:12:27.000
Well, see, what I think is that setting discovery in the 23rd century around about the time of original trek was an attempt to recreate an original trek for an entirely new generation of people.

1110
01:12:27.060 --> 01:12:32.100
So Star Trek is central to the Star Trek experience, the original series.

1111
01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:40.619
They didn't want to set it in the 24th century where there was a lot of standing around talking and everything was a bit more stately.

1112
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:45.119
And they wanted to set it somewhere familiar where the recent films had been set and so on.

1113
01:12:45.180 --> 01:12:55.079
And the Klingon war gave them an interesting story to tell which resonated with politics and had things to say about, you know, federation ideals.

1114
01:12:55.140 --> 01:13:00.180
Those interminable scenes sound in the high world.

1115
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:01.020
Oh my God.

1116
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:02.220
I actually like that.

1117
01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:03.840
I'm sure you did, yeah.

1118
01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:11.520
Their job is to make the Klingons scary and alien after they'd been just your friendly uncle who was into ZZ top or something.

1119
01:13:11.579 --> 01:13:16.319
You know, like it made them frightening and they were properly frightening.

1120
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:18.539
You're trying to say that Gower's eyes weren't frightening.

1121
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:20.279
They were from...

1122
01:13:20.340 --> 01:13:23.279
But they're a bit too cuddly, you know, and a bit too familiar.

1123
01:13:23.340 --> 01:13:28.319
And if you're going to bring them back, you want to make them as scary as they are to the Federation.

1124
01:13:28.439 --> 01:13:31.560
Excuse me, I can't remember any of those Klingon characters from Discovery Series one.

1125
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:33.000
I'll never forget Gowron.

1126
01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:34.979
As long as I, that's true.

1127
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:40.439
But we did have many years of Gaur on, and they were decades ago.

1128
01:13:40.500 --> 01:13:44.579
We've sat with Gala for most of our adult lives.

1129
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:46.800
Oh, no, girl.

1130
01:13:46.859 --> 01:13:49.680
But that's that's the other thing too.

1131
01:13:49.739 --> 01:14:00.060
The thing that absolutely thrills me is that we have new Star Trek and it's trying to do new things and it's virtually on every week.

1132
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:04.439
And it's been so long since Star Trek was...

1133
01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:07.619
I do think there's a potential to oversaturate this, though.

1134
01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:14.699
Like, if they just keep, if they just keep, and like, Picard's coming to an end after three, and I think that's probably a good thing.

1135
01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:16.739
Like some of these shows should be finite.

1136
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:23.399
Discovery maybe should run to 7 or something like that. you know, and then, but if they, you know, keep trying new things, things like that.

1137
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:33.659
But like we said, it is like a selection box with really different flavours and you can absolutely dip into those different flavours, which is really fantastic.

1138
01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:46.680
But another thing as well, I really love about series 3 is it takes all of those things that we recognise from, like, for me, from 90s trek, and it absolutely reinterprets all of it.

1139
01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:49.140
The Federation, all those matters, trill.

1140
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:50.579
Do we see Vulcan?

1141
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:51.659
Navar.

1142
01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:52.560
Is that what it's called?

1143
01:14:52.619 --> 01:14:53.340
Mount Navarre.

1144
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:55.500
Oh, yeah, yeah. because the Romulans are there too.

1145
01:14:55.560 --> 01:15:02.039
So it's giving it's giving a fascinating new slant on like tired, basically tired cliches.

1146
01:15:02.100 --> 01:15:03.180
And that's good.

1147
01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:29.880
Yeah, and it's centring the idea of what the Federation is about and that it's about connection and it's timely, I think, uh, in a world that's becoming increasingly fractured and isolated and suspicious, particularly in America, that is becoming increasingly suspicious of, you know, international cooperation and stuff like that.

1148
01:15:29.939 --> 01:15:34.680
I think it's, you know, in Britain, like you've Brexited.

1149
01:15:34.739 --> 01:15:38.399
And so that, you have to bring me up, honestly.

1150
01:15:38.460 --> 01:15:40.619
But do you know what I mean?

1151
01:15:41.100 --> 01:15:47.100
It's, you know, it's a world where that message is timely and should be heard.

1152
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:50.340
And I think that more than any other iteration of track.

1153
01:15:50.460 --> 01:16:01.800
This has a very, very conscious political purpose and a real, proper understanding of what that whole ideal is.

1154
01:16:01.979 --> 01:16:06.600
I don't want to call it the Roddenbury ideal, but that utopian, socialist, internationalist ideal.

1155
01:16:06.659 --> 01:16:08.399
It's so interesting.

1156
01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:13.739
Isn't it that we've done in the Palm Moonlight, followed by, what's this episode called?

1157
01:16:13.859 --> 01:16:16.500
Uh, that hope is you part two?

1158
01:16:16.619 --> 01:16:28.500
Because I think our personal like favourite iterations of Trek are there and they're doing very different things and yours is completely leaving it.

1159
01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:30.899
I'm not even going to call it the Roddenberry Idol, but I don't think that's there.

1160
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:38.279
The Star Trek ideal of, you know, like unification working together, a better future.

1161
01:16:38.340 --> 01:16:41.760
Whereas in the Power Moonlight, basically saying, war is shit.

1162
01:16:41.819 --> 01:16:43.439
We've got to do terrible.

1163
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:44.039
We can't do that.

1164
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:46.619
In order to, you know, in order to get through it.

1165
01:16:46.619 --> 01:16:54.899
And it's given both of us the opportunities to kind of set our stall and say this is what we love personally about Star Trek.

1166
01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:09.600
All right, so it's time for us to choose the Star Trek episode we're going to watch next time, and it's your turn, Joe. What series are we choosing from?

1167
01:17:09.659 --> 01:17:17.819
Okay, so I have just pulled up the randomiser and I have selected 4 shows at complete random.

1168
01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:20.640
So yes, that's right.

1169
01:17:20.699 --> 01:17:22.619
The original series.

1170
01:17:22.680 --> 01:17:24.300
I'm talking about that.

1171
01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:26.760
The next generation, because why not?

1172
01:17:26.819 --> 01:17:27.300
Yeah.

1173
01:17:27.300 --> 01:17:33.180
Voyager, because we love slagging things off, and lower decks, because we've only done one of those.

1174
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:35.399
Okay, that sounds brilliant.

1175
01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:36.840
I'm up for any one of those.

1176
01:17:36.899 --> 01:17:38.100
Are you ready for this?

1177
01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:38.579
good.

1178
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:47.819
So just let me drop the URL, which is untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser. for all your random Star Trek needs.

1179
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:54.060
You never need to go to your shelves and just stare for an hour. sell spread. or whatever.

1180
01:17:54.180 --> 01:17:56.279
Yeah, can I just tell you something?

1181
01:17:56.340 --> 01:17:59.460
Like I heard the other day on random trek.

1182
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:01.020
I was listening to some old episodes.

1183
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:03.180
It's not as random as you might think, you know.

1184
01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:07.859
If you think we're not random, they select a series sometimes.

1185
01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:10.319
Yeah, I know, honestly.

1186
01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:12.119
Anyways.

1187
01:18:12.180 --> 01:18:13.140
Okay here we go.

1188
01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:13.739
Okay.

1189
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:20.819
So our 1st random episode is Star Trek Voyager, series five, episode 25 Warhead.

1190
01:18:21.960 --> 01:18:24.180
Is it about a warhead?

1191
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:26.279
I think I remember that. about a bomb.

1192
01:18:26.340 --> 01:18:32.520
That takes on the personality of the doctor, and it's one of those rare doctor episodes is really terrible.

1193
01:18:33.300 --> 01:18:35.880
So we don't want to watch that, do we?

1194
01:18:35.939 --> 01:18:38.579
We don't want to see Robert Picardo being awful.

1195
01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:41.220
No, he wouldn't be helpful anyway.

1196
01:18:41.279 --> 01:18:42.720
It's now selected.

1197
01:18:42.779 --> 01:18:48.539
Episode 6, series 13, virtuoso, which is another one of those very rare doctor episodes that's terrible.

1198
01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:50.640
It hates Robert.

1199
01:18:50.699 --> 01:18:51.300
You remember that today?

1200
01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:52.319
Where's the opera planet?

1201
01:18:52.380 --> 01:18:53.819
He goes and teats things opera.

1202
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:54.539
Oh, come on.

1203
01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:57.659
And they're all like And he becomes famous and he's horrible to everyone.

1204
01:18:57.720 --> 01:18:59.819
They're all little people with squeaky voices.

1205
01:18:59.880 --> 01:19:01.859
It's really terrible.

1206
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:04.079
Okay, let's go.

1207
01:19:04.140 --> 01:19:04.560
Okay.

1208
01:19:04.859 --> 01:19:06.659
Oh my word.

1209
01:19:06.720 --> 01:19:08.460
It's the visitor.

1210
01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:14.520
It's Star Trek Next Generation, series two, episode nine, the measure of a man.

1211
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:16.199
Oh, we have to do that.

1212
01:19:16.260 --> 01:19:17.460
It's good.

1213
01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:18.420
We can't roll again.

1214
01:19:18.479 --> 01:19:20.399
Can't we do another classic?

1215
01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:21.960
So we're going to run out of classics.

1216
01:19:22.020 --> 01:19:23.460
We haven't done any...

1217
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.920
Oh, no, there's 830 episodes.

1218
01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:26.460
We'll be fine.

1219
01:19:26.579 --> 01:19:29.100
Well, I'm so sorry, but I'll press it again.

1220
01:19:29.159 --> 01:19:31.260
Oh, I'm sorry.

1221
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:32.159
Oh, we got another.

1222
01:19:32.220 --> 01:19:36.180
Okay, this is probably the ultimate next generation classic.

1223
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:37.380
Okay.

1224
01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:40.500
It's Siri says Episodes 25 and 26.

1225
01:19:40.859 --> 01:19:42.060
All good things.

1226
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:44.699
Let's do that.

1227
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:45.420
What do you reckon?

1228
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:46.500
Yeah, let's do.

1229
01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:47.220
Come on, yeah.

1230
01:19:47.220 --> 01:19:49.439
I didn't see that. haven't seen that for years.

1231
01:19:49.500 --> 01:19:49.859
No.

1232
01:19:49.859 --> 01:19:51.539
Yeah, me either.

1233
01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:53.100
Wow, that's really good.

1234
01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:53.819
Let's do that.

1235
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:56.340
A finale is what a series finale.

1236
01:19:56.460 --> 01:19:58.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1237
01:19:58.319 --> 01:19:58.739
That's awesome.

1238
01:19:58.800 --> 01:19:59.699
Brilliant.

1239
01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:14.760
I'm there for it You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1240
01:20:14.819 --> 01:20:21.539
You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1241
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:27.180
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1242
01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:33.840
This episode was recorded on the 22nd of February 2022 and released on the 25th of February.

1243
01:20:33.899 --> 01:20:38.579
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, for good things.