WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:33:05

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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Nathan, I've got a question for you. before we start talking about

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anything.

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And that is, why have I been forced to watch an episode this week

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with no context at all of what I'm watching?

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We're doing discovery this week, and I dipped out of discovery

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during series 3 and we're doing the series 3 finale, of which I

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spent the 1st 10 minutes scratching my head.

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Well, I mean, to be fair, there is a previously on discovery, but

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this is where basically everything comes to a head.

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Boy, does it?

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And so what's happened is we've had a two-part mirror universe

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episode with the Guardian of Forever and with the sad departure of

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Cousin Michelle from the show.

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I just need to say as a quick side note, I really felt her absence

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in this.

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Yeah, yeah, she's magnificent.

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And then we have a, what is basically a three-part story at the

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end of the season that pulls together all of the plots like, you

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know, who created the burn, where does the burn come from?

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and also the the emerald chain.

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And those have been running through the series.

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And I actually think the three-parter really deftly handles those

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plots and brings together the whole theme of connection

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reconnection versus isolation that's been running through the

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whole series and that we talked about when we did forget me not.

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So there was 3 episodes of this then.

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There's 3 episodes of this particular story that we're watching.

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So I haven't watched the other two.

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Yeah, so what happens is there's an episode called Sukal, and that

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is where they discover the dilithium planet, and they've already

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heard the message from Sukal's mother. and they go down and they

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meet Sukal.

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And that's where we 1st see Doug Jones out of out of makeup and

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everyone sort of in different Star Trek latex arrangements.

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And we get to meet Zakal, and so Carl nearly causes another burn

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and so on.

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And then we have to leave very quickly because a cyra turns up.

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And so the next part, we completely leave them behind and we don't

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know what's going on.

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The last thing we see is a deer are kind of beaming down to the

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hollow thing.

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Then we get an entire kind of, it's sort of starship mine where, um

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the ship is taken over by Asira and we get this sort of whole

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action thing where it's about trying to reclaim the ship and so

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on.

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And we have no idea what's happening on the dilithium planet.

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And then we come back and we have both plots in the final

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episode.

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Are you telling me this ain't the action episode?

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No, there is a, there is a much more kind of live.

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It reminds me more than anything else of Starship mine.

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So that's, is that series 6?

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It's the one where Picard gets his vest on, you know, and starts

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crawling around the ship with a big gun, you know.

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They did it again with Voyager with Janeway in a tank top. you

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remember?

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going around the ship?

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like Ripley out of Alien, you know?

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And so that was a sort of that was a great kind of action thing, a

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huge action-packed thing, which just left unresolved the question

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of what was happening on the dilithium planet.

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And now all of those plots come together in the finale.

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But there's a lot of stuff from earlier in the season in there.

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There's a lot of stuff in this episode full stop.

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You know, it's it's packed full of stuff.

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Okay, I need to lay my cars on the table from the off.

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I didn't think that this was particularly good.

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And I think my biggest problem with this is the big twist of the

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season, what caused the burn, because that's the mystery of this

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year, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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It's not really, you know, like where's the Federation?

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It's what brought the Federation to its knees.

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And I saw fan theories going around because it was called the

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burn.

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People would go, why?

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It must have something to do with Michael Burnham.

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Yeah.

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Or as you said, you know, it would be appalling if it was

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discovery that had actually caused, you know, this wanton

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destruction across the quadrant.

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And the conclusion that the season draws, I was just staring at my

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screen going, huh?

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And not in a good way.

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I was just like, it's so small and so insignificant.

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And yes, it is thematically linked with what is going on with the

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season, although I have issues with that because I feel the need

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to spell that out in like specific detail in the final 10

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minutes.

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Like we couldn't figure it out for ourselves.

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Yeah.

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I just didn't get it.

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I just didn't get how, uh, such a kind of galactic consequence

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could come from, and it's, it's done via the most obscene of Star

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Trek Technobabbles.

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Like.

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You know what I'm like with Star Trek.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. resonating the dilithium minds of this

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planet or some such bollocks.

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Like, what was the reaction?

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What was the reaction to this?

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I'm not sure, because I try not to be too online, because

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obviously the problem with Star Trek discovery is that it's

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another science fiction franchise that has women and black people

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in major roles, and like, Doctor Who and trans people.

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And so there is a toxic segment of fandom that I just can't bear

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even to look at.

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And you go on Facebook and there are just openly racist comments

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and stuff about the show.

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And so I don't really know what the online reaction was.

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I have to say that I had a similar reaction to you.

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In that, it seemed like just a tiny, insignificant thing, uh, and

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that that was, that was an odd storytelling choice.

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But I actually rewatching it this time thought it was a good

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choice.

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And we have an hour to talk about it while it's on.

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So I'll make it clear why I think that it was the right choice.

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See, I want to compare it to something else which I think does a

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similar thing, but way, way better.

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And that is how they ended the Dominion War in DS9.

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Now that didn't end on a massive battle, but there was a massive

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battle, and the Dominion retreated, but what happened was Odo went

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down to Cardassia, he linked with the female changing for all of

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about 2.5 seconds, in which time it's clear that when they unmelt

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that they had this long, blonde conversation, and she goes, we're

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surrendering.

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And that's how it ended, but it was completely built into their

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character and he then says, I'm going to be with the Great Link

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And that was enough for them to say we're going to end this war.

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And it was completely built into like 4 or 5 years worth of

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character.

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This got so disconnected from anything in discovery.

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I'm just like, well, what is this?

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Like, what's this got to do with anything?

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I will make it clear what I think is going on here.

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But it's a different type of storytelling from what we used to.

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And it's a type of storytelling that I don't think 90 Strek would

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have attempted.

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Okay.

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Well, I'm intrigued.

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I'm intrigued to hear.

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I'm willing to be persuaded.

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All I know is, is like my gut reaction was, this is not good.

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Yeah, I think it is good.

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And I think it's the culmination of a really good three-parter

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that that for me had had a scale to it.

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It was so much fun.

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One of the things about discovery is that it has this massive

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scale.

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It's not just people on a ship doing a space problem every week.

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That is a real sense.

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Oh no, I love that.

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I wouldn't be here.

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That's right.

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This has a scale of way that the Star Trek movies have a scale

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that they seem to take place in a bigger world than just the world

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of the ship.

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And that's how discovery operates.

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And I really liked it.

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You know, it's long, it's about 3 hours long in total.

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Not this episode of Untitled Star Trek project, but the finale.

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And so there's time for a lot of things to happen.

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And so I was really here for it.

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You'd be lucky if it was 3 hours long, this episode of our tiles

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Star Trek.

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I listen to it, 2 of us talking.

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That's right.

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Just one other quick thing before we go in.

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I think one of my other issues with discovery is I do think all of

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the seasons start off with a lot of promise.

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And then I felt it with the 2nd series with the red lightning, all

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of that.

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It just sort of ended on a load of mawkish nonsense.

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I really didn't like the end of series.

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I know you like the end series one.

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I found that desperately underwhelming.

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And then this, I just was left very confused.

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I feel like these seasons go in with huge like we're going to

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deliver something amazing.

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And then at the end it's like, oh, we need to wrap this up.

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And there is thematic resonance and there is character, like

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conclusions with each season, but I feel like the show is visually

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massively ambitious, yeah?

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And I think it's creatively promising, but ultimately a little bit

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unambitious in how it tells a seasonal arc.

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Yeah, I think I have a higher opinion of the new, although I have

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to agree with you about the series 2 finale, which I did think was

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there were a lot of tearful speeches in that final episode.

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Don't you think this episode's immune?

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All right.

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There some bits at the end of this episode where they're all bred

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all walking around looking at each other longingly as a big, lovely

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family.

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Oh, it was too much.

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I was like, oh, I love that.

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Instead of the kind of, you know, robots that we had in 90s trek.

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Yeah, we want Picard coming into a poker game and just saying, well

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I should have done this years ago, you know.

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No, make me cry.

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Okay, all right.

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Okay.

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So I'll count us in.

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Yeah, I'm ready.

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All right.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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You freebie, then, because you normally say free to one.

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Okay, so this is our staple previous on discovery now, and we need

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it.

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Yeah.

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We really need it.

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Because without it, we're completely lost.

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So I think because this is on a streaming service and it's not on

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CBS, um, and it's, it's absolutely not the show that Star Trek was

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in the 90s because while the early parts of a season are a bit

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self-contained, like forget me not, although that introduced

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things that would come later.

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That was a perfect, perfect episode.

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It was completely 90s trade, wasn't it?

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Yeah, but this, so this is absolutely serialised.

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And, you know, even more than that.

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It's part 3 of a 3 part story, essentially.

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So do you think this is expected now, like, of a TV show on a

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streaming service that you basically it's all or nothing on the

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whole?

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Well, there is talk of Strange New World, the Captain Pike spinoff

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being more lightly serialised than this, for people who like their

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Star Trek a bit less serialised.

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That sounds marvellous.

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Yeah, well, I think that that is for people who find...

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I know what you're thinking.

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I know what you're really thinking.

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Go on, I will focus in the 1990s trek.

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There's 100s of episodes of 90s trek still available to watch. if

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that's your thing.

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But what we have here is a bigger story.

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A bigger story than you can tell in 45 minutes or an hour.

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And an interesting story as well, because the scale here, this is

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series 3.

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And so we've been introduced to an entire new setting for various

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reasons, which are somewhat messy.

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But the premise is good.

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The premises, the federation is being rebuilt.

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I think the 1st 5 or 6 episodes of series 3 are probably the

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strongest run of discovery episodes.

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The one where they 1st go to Earth, and as they discover that

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hologram of the guy who's talking about like the Federation.

248
00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:40.559
All of that, the mystery of what's happened with the burn.

249
00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.980
I was truly invested in all of that.

250
00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:45.779
Wow, those robots are amazing.

251
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.299
Those robots are horrific.

252
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:54.840
These are the dots and there's a fantastic short trek called E

253
00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:56.279
Frame and Dot, which is about one of them.

254
00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:58.320
It's really great, but I think they're adorable.

255
00:13:58.379 --> 00:13:59.220
Are they sticking around?

256
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.019
I swear they were repairing them at the end.

257
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.879
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:04.200
Well, they're all over the ship.

259
00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:07.080
They're part of the ship's self-repair system.

260
00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:08.879
So here's a gormagander.

261
00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:10.919
We saw one of those in series one.

262
00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:18.059
This is amazingly beautiful because this is a, what's happening in

263
00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:19.559
this part of the plot.

264
00:14:19.620 --> 00:14:23.340
We're in the holodeck, a big holodeck on this shit.

265
00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:27.360
And it's the holodeck that Sukal has grown up in.

266
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.539
And it looks like a haunted house.

267
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.480
Yes, looks just like a haunted house.

268
00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:35.220
And so there are staircases.

269
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:36.779
It's dark.

270
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:44.039
The camera keeps rolling over and It's doing something weird.

271
00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:46.080
No, no, no, it's doing something weird and hypnotic with the

272
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.299
holiday, which night is track did not do.

273
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:53.399
They used it as an excuse to go off to Da Vinci's or, you know, a

274
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.460
pool table or James Bond boy or something like that.

275
00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:57.240
Yeah, yeah.

276
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.840
But it wasn't like you can do anything and this is doing anything

277
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:01.320
isn't it?

278
00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:05.279
And so this, I think, operates on that level.

279
00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:13.980
We're in a scary house with a monster and like a wise old man.

280
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:19.080
And so I think this is operating in this sort of strange fairy

281
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:19.980
tale way.

282
00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:25.799
And I don't know if you remember, but the way that they find this

283
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:31.679
ship is that Sir Carl's mother sends out a message and that

284
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:37.500
message is encoded in a melody and that melody appears over and

285
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.240
over again in the earlier episodes.

286
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.120
And the melody is a lullaby.

287
00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:47.759
So there's a lullaby that brings them here. all along the

288
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:48.419
watchtower.

289
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:50.159
Yeah, yeah.

290
00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:51.000
Yeah, yeah.

291
00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:53.220
It's not, you know, that's pretty great.

292
00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:56.039
Why is the doctor like a Bajoran?

293
00:15:56.100 --> 00:16:01.500
So on in this, I think it's an excuse, right, to get Doug Jones

294
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:02.879
out of makeup.

295
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.460
And so in this...

296
00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:08.700
Oh my god, it's like Doc Jones, I've literally just I just

297
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:10.379
realised that.

298
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

299
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:12.539
Wow.

300
00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:13.919
So it's, yeah.

301
00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:14.759
Yeah.

302
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:16.259
And he's wonderful in it.

303
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.259
It's this incredible thing, you know, where he's had this career

304
00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:24.000
playing latex covered people, like the gentleman and the fish that

305
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.860
that woman fucks in shape of water.

306
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:31.259
And and he is.

307
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:37.139
Oh, and look, look, look, this is Hugh seeing Gray for the 1st

308
00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:37.500
time.

309
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:39.720
And this is all real...

310
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:40.019
Okay.

311
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.379
I was going to come on holidays. was all really, really nice.

312
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.759
And it's about bloody time, Star Trek gave us like a gay family

313
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:48.299
isn't it?

314
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.039
Yeah.

315
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:56.639
And the thing about about him having kind eyes because he does and

316
00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:57.659
that smile.

317
00:16:57.720 --> 00:16:58.559
I love how...

318
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:02.100
Oh, man, is it tough?

319
00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:03.120
What's the doctor's name?

320
00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:03.659
Kuba?

321
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:04.319
Hugh.

322
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:04.859
Hugh.

323
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:06.660
Yeah. and his partner.

324
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.579
They're both really tactile with them.

325
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.200
I really love that as well.

326
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:11.819
It's very Cisco and Jake, isn't it?

327
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.740
It feels real, you know?

328
00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:16.619
You touch your family, aren't you?

329
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.119
You're close to them.

330
00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:20.579
And it is a proper family thing.

331
00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:26.700
Like in one of these episodes, Paul talks about having a child and

332
00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:28.380
he means a Dira.

333
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.779
So it is the gay family.

334
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:31.799
Look at that monster.

335
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.059
That terrifying monster.

336
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.019
Like, you know what?

337
00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.339
I want to say from the old.

338
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.660
Like, um, the budget of this show is extraordinary, how it looks

339
00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:40.559
is incredible.

340
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:44.880
As you said to me in a message, it looks better than the majority

341
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:45.599
of the films.

342
00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:49.980
Like it is, it is an assault on the census, this TV show.

343
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.880
Yeah, it's also that you don't quite know what you're seeing.

344
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:57.599
So this is just, you know, like the federation base or whatever

345
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.319
but the shapes of the ships in the background are really weird and

346
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:02.160
indistinct.

347
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.059
They're odd. like they're like nothing that we've ever seen in

348
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:06.839
Star Trek.

349
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:12.240
And then the space itself, this weird sort of toroidal force field

350
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.200
thing.

351
00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:19.799
Like, it's it's visually very strange, and I really, really like

352
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:20.160
that.

353
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:25.440
However, I am going to go with Jamma from Jamma's reviews here.

354
00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:30.059
I don't think they do space battles, particularly adeptly in

355
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:30.599
discovery.

356
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.940
It's a lot.

357
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.259
I disagree with that.

358
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:34.680
Okay, okay.

359
00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:36.960
Well, look, that's a look there, but it's all a bit sedate.

360
00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:38.579
The ships are moving incredibly slowly.

361
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:40.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

362
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.599
But they're trying to sell that they're big.

363
00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:45.420
You know, the...

364
00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:46.740
Furious, you know?

365
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.759
Well, we'll get to that.

366
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:48.660
We'll get to the action.

367
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:50.579
Yeah, yeah.

368
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.980
But so, this green woman.

369
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.319
So this is a Cyrus.

370
00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:57.059
She's head of the emerald chain.

371
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:01.440
And she turns up quite early in the season.

372
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:07.920
She has a couple of episodes one where book is kind of in this

373
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:08.880
labour camp.

374
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.339
I think he might have seen that one.

375
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.880
We might have talked about that And then later on she comes back

376
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:19.079
to threaten Quajon, and she's really, really sort of fabulously

377
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:19.740
evil.

378
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.900
And she has turned...

379
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.279
I think she was a little bit wooden.

380
00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:26.519
I don't think she'd be too out of place in like a Graham Williams

381
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:27.720
Doctor Who story.

382
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:28.920
She's very over the top.

383
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.259
I love that.

384
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.839
I think you know, having a female villain.

385
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:34.619
She's English.

386
00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:36.480
She's icily English.

387
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.500
Of course she's English.

388
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:37.920
Yeah.

389
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.619
Because we're all bloody evil, aren't we?

390
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.299
Malcolm, absolutely.

391
00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:44.279
I can list them all.

392
00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:49.619
I think the makeup is slightly weird, but what they've done is

393
00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:52.500
they've created this thing called the Emerald Chain, and I don't

394
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:55.319
think they've really looked at kind of looked into it in a lot of

395
00:19:55.319 --> 00:20:00.000
detail, but she actually turns up on the Federation base and tries

396
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.779
to negotiate with Vance joining together.

397
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:05.039
Yeah, yeah.

398
00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:05.519
Yeah.

399
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:06.180
Yeah.

400
00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:12.240
And and the whole, the whole season has been about rejoining, you

401
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:16.559
know, we've started with 38 worlds and we're we're trying to get

402
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:19.619
more people to rejoin the federation and and get it to be a new

403
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:19.920
thing.

404
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.640
And it's all about connection versus isolation and stuff like

405
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:23.880
that.

406
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:25.980
And they haven't been particularly successful.

407
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.359
You know, Earth and Navarre are both not interested in joining.

408
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:31.980
True is.

409
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:32.940
At the end of the episode.

410
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.940
Well, so is Navarre at the end of the episode, but they're not

411
00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:38.039
during the show.

412
00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:43.680
So what we have is lots of frightened isolationist groups that

413
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:46.380
don't want to join together.

414
00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:49.500
But Asara does want to join with them.

415
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:54.960
And she presents the challenge that she's a criminal who has

416
00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:02.640
harmed a lot of people and that she's a capitalist and they don't

417
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:04.500
want to do capitalism.

418
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.720
And so the whole thing founders.

419
00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:09.660
The reason that she wants to destroy the Federation in this

420
00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:13.680
episode is that last episode her negotiations with Admiral Vance

421
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:14.940
failed.

422
00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:20.759
And Vance said she that we would join with the emerald chain

423
00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:22.380
provided she was put on trial.

424
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:25.920
And so she did a big villain flounce and headed off.

425
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.079
And it was a pretty spectacular flower.

426
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.539
In terms of Star Trek villainy.

427
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.220
She's pretty small fry, isn't she?

428
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:37.619
But, you know, like, I don't know why Star Trek doesn't do

429
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:38.880
villains all that much.

430
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:40.440
Are you kidding me?

431
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:46.920
Well, Deep Space 9 has regular villains, but it's about the...

432
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:47.519
It does.

433
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:51.000
You know, I want the Kardassians exterminated.

434
00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:52.019
I mean come on.

435
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.619
Yeah.

436
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.240
But I, you know, she's less high concept than any of those. and

437
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:01.079
they have 7 years to develop and she's just in this season.

438
00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.059
Will we remember her in years?

439
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.579
I will, I think she's fabulous.

440
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:09.119
And I like the green streaks in her hair.

441
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:10.680
That's why you're over it.

442
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.660
That's what I want That's absolutely true.

443
00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:15.000
I mean, to be fair, She wouldn't be out of price in a original

444
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:15.779
series episode.

445
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.619
Even the look of that.

446
00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:18.240
Yeah, yeah.

447
00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:23.460
Well, she isn't, she's, um, Orion, like Tendee.

448
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:24.839
Only not as nice.

449
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.460
Yeah, so, and the other thing is that I can't believe that David

450
00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:36.240
David Cronenberg is a skinny regular guitar, isn't it?

451
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.480
I think he's very...

452
00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:41.880
And kind of handsome as well.

453
00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:44.160
Yeah, yeah, he's looking good.

454
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.259
The glasses are really great too.

455
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.960
I like this.

456
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:55.740
I like that they have a home base and that because I guess

457
00:22:55.740 --> 00:23:01.500
Discovery had Katrina, that Admiral in series one.

458
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.500
Do you remember the admiral who'd had the relationship?

459
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:05.460
Oh, yeah.

460
00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:06.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

461
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.640
Who I thought was fantastic.

462
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:10.440
I thought she was really, really good.

463
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.319
And one of the things that Discovery does.

464
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:17.099
And partly it's just a result of how messy its production has been

465
00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:20.819
and how it's kind of floundered and tried to find what it's going

466
00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:25.559
to do over the 1st couple of years, is that people come in and out

467
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:25.920
of it.

468
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:31.380
And the cast now, the, the regular cast, it doesn't have a regular

469
00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:35.039
cast in the way that um, 90s trek does.

470
00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:37.619
Or here, finally, at 12 minutes of the opening.

471
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.019
I find it very interesting at the end of this episode, they put

472
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:43.259
Burnham in the captain's chair because one of the things you and I

473
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:47.519
celebrated about discovery was that this was her show and she

474
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.619
wasn't, wasn't captain.

475
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:50.099
Yeah.

476
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.519
And, you know, like, and you said the show was ever more heading

477
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.599
to in a very Star Trek direction and leaning into the cliches.

478
00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:02.039
And towards the end of this episode, it felt like I'm not sure

479
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.519
about the 1st 50 minutes, but the last 10 minutes felt so Star

480
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.819
Trek. like Star Trek of the past.

481
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.079
Yeah.

482
00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:14.880
I think that it's an artefact of the production, which is that it

483
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.700
was going to be an anthology series originally.

484
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.299
And so the story of discovery would have been the 1st season

485
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.299
interesting to see how it would have panned out.

486
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:29.339
But then you get these actors and these sets and the premise and

487
00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:31.920
stuff and you sort of think, why are we throwing this away after a

488
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:32.220
year?

489
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.619
And so we keep going.

490
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:37.019
You know, you love Saru as the captain.

491
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:38.099
And I did too.

492
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.200
I thought he was, I didn't forget we're not, he was especially

493
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:40.500
good.

494
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:41.819
But I really liked.

495
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.039
I can't remember the fellow's name now because it was a few

496
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:44.700
seasons back.

497
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.140
In season one.

498
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.180
The guy from the Mirror Universe, Jason Isaacs.

499
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:49.019
Oh, my God.

500
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:53.220
I really liked him, you know, because he was like, you know, a

501
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:54.900
quiet badass on the side.

502
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:56.220
Yeah, you know?

503
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:57.960
And you weren't sure whether you liked him or not.

504
00:24:58.019 --> 00:25:00.599
And I love that with Saru, you like Saru.

505
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.339
With Burnham, you like Burnham, you know.

506
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.420
Yeah, yeah.

507
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.240
Yeah, I thought he was terrific and he was sort of hot and sweaty

508
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:06.599
and stuff.

509
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:07.500
Yeah, yeah.

510
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:13.440
So now we come out of the opening credits into this space.

511
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:14.579
And the space.

512
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:23.039
So what I'm, what my theory is, this is a fairy tale in all sorts

513
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:23.700
of ways.

514
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:31.079
So they have been drawn here by a lullaby that has attracted them

515
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:38.099
to this space and they now play out what the season is about with

516
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:42.119
just this one person, but in a mythic space where there's a

517
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.960
monster in a haunted house where everyone is wearing the wrong

518
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:47.400
Star Trek makeup.

519
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.859
Well, that's incredibly literal, isn't it?

520
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:58.500
Yeah, yeah, but, but, um, Yeah, and and and so everyone appears as

521
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:02.640
the wrong race so they can get Doug Jones out of the makeup and so

522
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:08.160
that the reveal of Doug Jones as a Kelpian, another Kelpian, uh

523
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.420
happens later.

524
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:15.539
And so what they need to do is they need to work with him so that

525
00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:19.200
he can face his fears and go outside.

526
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:24.299
And that's the mission of discovery this season is to go from

527
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:28.859
place to place where people are isolated and frightened and

528
00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:35.039
traumatised by the burn and convince them to overcome that and

529
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.500
join in with something bigger.

530
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:43.319
And so the whole series, the whole theme of the series, all that

531
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:48.119
stuff about connection, um, which is super explicit, I think.

532
00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:50.339
I'm not reading stuff into that plot.

533
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.259
Oh, boy, is it explicit?

534
00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:53.460
In that final log.

535
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah, oh, well, yeah, yeah.

536
00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:58.019
I mean, that is a thing that Discovery does, which is I think we

537
00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:01.319
could do with less. learned how to...

538
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.660
And off we go to create the Federation.

539
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.859
I mean, it's built into Star Trek style, isn't it?

540
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.519
Because we always have captain's log, you know, Stardate.

541
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.460
Now, here's how I'm feeling about the thing instead of showing

542
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.700
you.

543
00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:18.059
Not to Crusher has repaired us with her usual scale.

544
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.039
Yes, that's right.

545
00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:23.880
How do they go from salamanders to human beings between themes.

546
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:24.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

547
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:28.079
So that is a thing.

548
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.519
So, and I do think, like, I do think that reading is absolutely

549
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:33.119
there.

550
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:38.099
I do also think that those scenes between Doug Jones on that

551
00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:41.819
character were just interminable and they went on and on and on.

552
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:46.319
I don't I was just, I kept, I kept asking myself, why am I

553
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:47.220
supposed to care about this character?

554
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:47.940
Where are we going?

555
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.640
Who is this character and why am I supposed to care about him?

556
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:51.960
Are we going to see him again?

557
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:52.740
Probably not.

558
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.339
So we're just we're just dealing with this this character in this

559
00:27:56.339 --> 00:28:00.779
season as a reason for why we we are going to see him again.

560
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:02.880
Oh, yeah, yeah.

561
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:03.359
Okay.

562
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:05.460
Well, yeah, he's back at beat.

563
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:07.740
I'm a little more invested Yeah, yeah.

564
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.420
Well, see, you still go on a bit, though.

565
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:10.740
Like, yeah.

566
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.519
And and he was introduced obviously 2 episodes ago and we've been

567
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:16.319
wondering what's been happening.

568
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:19.500
Do you know throughout last week's episode, we didn't know where

569
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:20.160
this was going?

570
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:22.619
I'm starting to wonder then, because you know, your fairy tale

571
00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:23.039
reading.

572
00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:23.759
Fabulous.

573
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:28.559
But like, you had a similar reading with in the wonderful flight

574
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:32.220
for entirety in series 5 of Doctor Who.

575
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.480
I didn't like that either.

576
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:35.640
So I'm wondering if I just don't like fairy tales.

577
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:36.839
Fairy tales.

578
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:42.119
See, I think that most people wanted there to be a big space

579
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:43.619
reason for the bird.

580
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.799
Like the Romulans or some fucking thing.

581
00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:49.859
And I actually think that that would have been terrible.

582
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:55.319
Had it been caused intentionally, that would be something we

583
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:56.400
couldn't come back from.

584
00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:01.740
So for a little while, I had thought that, obviously, everyone

585
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:04.140
thought discovery might have caused it, and that would have

586
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:04.680
wrecked the show.

587
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:07.859
Like if they had destroyed the Federation, then...

588
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:09.480
It could have been the Dominions revenge.

589
00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:12.660
You know, we'd never have to paint them as good guys because they

590
00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:13.500
were the bad guys anyway.

591
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.680
Yeah, but I don't know that they want to do the Dominion.

592
00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:19.740
They did a shape shifter in series 4 the other day. exciting.

593
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:21.539
They're leaning more and more into DS 9.

594
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:22.019
I approve.

595
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:24.240
I'm not in serious 4 yet, but I approve.

596
00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:29.579
But also think as well, if you are going to be doing scenes with

597
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:34.680
like a man who has the kind of the intellect and the emotional

598
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:39.539
capacity of a child, you have to be a little bit careful in

599
00:29:39.539 --> 00:29:41.819
writing and playing that.

600
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:44.160
And I don't know if I didn't feel a little bit uncomfortable in

601
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.420
some of these scenes as well.

602
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:45.900
Yeah.

603
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.480
Um, but that's just a personal reading.

604
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:55.500
Yeah, I, I mean, I, I think that getting Saru to do this because

605
00:29:55.500 --> 00:30:06.299
Saru is kind and diplomatic and gentle and, and we, there's an

606
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:12.539
urgency here because, uh, we've got a bit of a Charlie X situation

607
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:18.420
with Sakal, because if Shakal gets too upset, he can cause another

608
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:18.779
burn.

609
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.599
I'd say Charlie X was a bit scarier though, wouldn't it?

610
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:22.559
Yeah, those scary eyes.

611
00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:23.940
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

612
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.980
He's an ugly, weird...

613
00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:28.980
But this guy has got this guy here on this play, he's got far

614
00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:29.819
reaching consequence.

615
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:31.440
If he gets pissed, you're in trouble.

616
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.180
Yeah, that's right.

617
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.960
And so he has to be managed because he can kind of blow it up.

618
00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:38.460
And so the stakes are hard.

619
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:39.180
But is he only there?

620
00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:40.799
Where there's all dilithium around.

621
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:42.180
I think that's the idea.

622
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:44.700
And then it resonates outwards and then...

623
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:49.079
Because space in discovery is different as well.

624
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:52.680
Because we've had the Mycelial network, which appears to be a

625
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:56.519
subspace realm full of mushrooms, which is...

626
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:56.819
Why not?

627
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.440
bafflingly weird.

628
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:00.599
And I'm absolutely here for it.

629
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:01.440
I don't care.

630
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:04.380
And this where, you know, there's some kind of quantum

631
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.740
entanglement that joins all of the dilithium in the world

632
00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:08.339
together.

633
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.859
Sorry, I leisure cannot listen anymore.

634
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:12.720
You're going to start spouting Technobabble.

635
00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:13.140
All right.

636
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.940
That's a real thing.

637
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.359
So all of the, it's magic.

638
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.960
What you do to a big bunch of dilithium happens to all of the

639
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:24.480
other bunches of dilithium, essentially.

640
00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:27.420
I hate magic warm situations, you know.

641
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:32.400
No, that's that's proper magic in the sense that, you know, doing

642
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:34.859
something to a symbol or doing something to part of something

643
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:38.039
affects the whole thing or affects the thing that it refers to.

644
00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:41.819
So I think there's a that it operates on the level of magic, the

645
00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:42.180
burn.

646
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:43.680
I mean, you know what?

647
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:48.059
It's absolutely subverting expectations and it's completely

648
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:48.900
original.

649
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:50.759
And I approve of that.

650
00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.180
However, there are many things I can say are completely original

651
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:56.940
to the expectations that are still a bit shit.

652
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:57.900
You know?

653
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.240
Yeah, I don't think this is a bit shit, though.

654
00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:06.420
I can't think of a space reasons way that this would have been

655
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:07.740
acceptable.

656
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:14.099
So if some alien race had done it, then we have a big evil villain

657
00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:17.160
and that's not what this show wants to do because this show is

658
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.220
about connection and overcoming difference.

659
00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:22.619
That's why I love to do that.

660
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.380
That's what I loved about this night. was it was a big villain and

661
00:32:25.380 --> 00:32:28.380
there was something to fight against and yeah, yeah, yeah.

662
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.740
But then you get cross at Picard, which is cynical and doesn't

663
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:33.599
have that overarching, loving theme.

664
00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:38.880
Yeah, there's a Star Trek that can be nasty. and this is, I mean

665
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:40.680
we're here watching book get tortured.

666
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:42.119
That's reasonably...

667
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.579
It has its moments, discovery.

668
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:50.579
That little close-up of Michael's eye, which just says, actually

669
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:52.920
I'm now going to kick the shit out of these people.

670
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:56.400
She's been there doing her distressed at my boyfriend being

671
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:57.539
tortured face.

672
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:02.099
Even though Michael Burnham is, in fact, extremely pretty.

673
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.019
She has done very well for herself.

674
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.339
He is gorgeous.

675
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.019
He is beautiful.

676
00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.519
But she's stunning.

677
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:11.700
He's in a Doctor Who.

678
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:12.480
Is he?

679
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.640
He's in the beast below.

680
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:16.980
He's one of the smilers in the beast below.

681
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:18.779
You mean they put a mask on his face?

682
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:21.660
No, well, and he turns around.

683
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:22.440
You see his face.

684
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:25.079
He's kind of the hero smiling.

685
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:28.019
He hasn't, like, I know I know he's been in throughout the season

686
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:30.720
because I remember him in the 1st episode, but he hasn't really

687
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.420
had like an enormous role, has he?

688
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:34.980
He's basically...

689
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:35.579
Oh, okay.

690
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:39.299
I thought you said that basically he was her other half and that's

691
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:40.079
kind of his role.

692
00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:40.380
Yeah.

693
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:42.539
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

694
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:44.460
But that is an important role.

695
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.640
That's quite a refresh actor's partner. for a man to get that role

696
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:48.599
just to be the other arse.

697
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:49.559
Yeah, support somebody.

698
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.200
He's the Cassidy Yates of Discovery.

699
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:55.079
Now you're talking.

700
00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:02.279
Okay, now look, we're heading into the relentless stream of

701
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.700
thrilling action that this episode is going to throw it.

702
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.159
Now, I don't object to action, all right?

703
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:14.880
And I do think that they bring it to life very adeptly.

704
00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:17.099
There's just so much of it.

705
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.079
And it's like die hard or something like that.

706
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:22.440
After a while, after 5 minutes into an action set piece.

707
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:25.619
It's like the Star Trek movies, the Kelvin ones.

708
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.920
I just go, well, my brain just turns off and I'm just like, well

709
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:30.420
it's just stuff happening now, you know?

710
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:33.780
But, I mean, what's happening here?

711
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.980
So...

712
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.340
Like there's a there's a character thing.

713
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.420
Here's Tilly and Tilly was in charge of the ship.

714
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:47.340
I do too, when when it was taken over, and this is her in a

715
00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:50.039
leadership role, and that's part of her ongoing art.

716
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:53.280
You know what I like about her is it actually shows how things

717
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.880
have changed because, and I'm not going to make any disparaging

718
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:58.800
remarks about how she looks because there's plenty of people out

719
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.780
there doing that unless appalling.

720
00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:06.420
Back in the day, they were told to starve themselves, essentially

721
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:10.019
in 90s to squeeze into those thin uniforms.

722
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:12.539
So they all had to be athletic and blah, blah, blah.

723
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:13.980
And, you know, she isn't.

724
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.380
And it's wonderful to see. frankly.

725
00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:21.239
So she's recently come out as queer Mary Wiseman, and she was on

726
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:22.679
the front cover of a magazine.

727
00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:26.460
I think it might have been Atitude magazine in the US, which had

728
00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:29.159
lots of covers of all of the queer cast of Discovery.

729
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:34.619
And she, she, I think we retweeted it from the untitled trek

730
00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:38.460
Twitter thing, but she was just talking about how gorgeous she

731
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:41.579
looked and how she was kicking off. the actress and the character

732
00:35:41.579 --> 00:35:43.920
they just own themselves, don't they?

733
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:44.519
And it's wonderful.

734
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:51.420
It's also that she is more like a real person than maybe nearly

735
00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:53.039
any other Star Trek character.

736
00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:55.320
She's like someone you know.

737
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:58.860
And even though she's sort of girly.

738
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.760
Like I love her in that, um, in the time loop episode in series

739
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.159
one where she's drinking and eyeing off soldiers and stuff.

740
00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:07.860
I love it when they started...

741
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.559
I have an evil costume in the mirror universe.

742
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:14.340
Do you remember, and forget me, not, where she was talking about

743
00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:17.460
the big fight that they've had at the dinner table.

744
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:19.440
She said, you know, on my place.

745
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:21.300
This is just a regular Tuesday or whatever.

746
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:23.219
It was the closest we've come to this before.

747
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:24.599
Latter-day Dax.

748
00:36:24.659 --> 00:36:27.420
It was a bit of a party animal, bisexual.

749
00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:28.079
Yeah, she is.

750
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:35.159
But she's a little bit more reserved, whereas Tilly is, you know

751
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.500
Mouthian kind of slightly enough.

752
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.659
Like, I think people found her annoying initially.

753
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:41.400
But I think she's tremendous.

754
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:43.320
It's a great character.

755
00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:47.039
I'm properly embarrassed because I literally, as I was watching

756
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.119
this episode last night, one of my 1st questions was going to be

757
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:52.559
that actor is so good.

758
00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:53.400
Who is it?

759
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:57.480
And it's, and it's, it's, it's so good.

760
00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:59.400
I didn't even realise I've been watching him for the last 4

761
00:36:59.400 --> 00:36:59.699
years.

762
00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:02.280
He's wonderful, isn't he?

763
00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:07.260
It's so great And so that thing is clearly a device just to get

764
00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:10.559
him out of makeup, but it also creates that sense of unreality

765
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:17.340
where the roles that they play as different races are all kind of

766
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:18.179
swapped.

767
00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:23.219
It makes it more theatrical or distances it from reality.

768
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:27.059
And it kind of we keep coming towards this.

769
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:33.780
I can't, um, I can't imagine a reason for the burn that isn't

770
00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:35.579
that.

771
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:38.159
You want it, it needs to be an accident.

772
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:40.860
Well, it needs to be an accident.

773
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:42.719
And that's what I don't like about it.

774
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:43.920
I want to be deliberate.

775
00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:47.099
I think, I mean, the fact it's an accident, it makes it just feel

776
00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:48.059
so insubstantial.

777
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:50.519
Yeah, yeah.

778
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:57.900
But the site of the accident is a place where Saru comes to play

779
00:37:57.900 --> 00:38:06.179
out the themes of the show in a mythical realm where there's this

780
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:09.300
fabulous scary monster, the kelp monster.

781
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.619
Everything's seaweed.

782
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:12.840
I wonder when they were right in this season, you know, they were

783
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.659
actually thinking, you know, in their writer's room, are people

784
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:16.619
going to go with this?

785
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:18.960
Like, is this is this going to satisfy people?

786
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:27.119
Yeah, I mean, I just, I think that they needed to discover the

787
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.860
burn, the source of the burn.

788
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:30.480
That was a good plot arc.

789
00:38:30.539 --> 00:38:32.460
It needed to not be.

790
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:34.739
I hate this makeup that a deer has gone.

791
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:36.840
Oh wait, I really like that.

792
00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:38.579
She looks like a character, a f escape.

793
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:42.059
So she was, do you remember there's a princess at the end of

794
00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:46.079
series 2 who is in the very 1st short trek, Poe, and I can't

795
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:47.039
remember the name of the race.

796
00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:48.360
It's super annoying, isn't it?

797
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:52.500
It's just in it for an episode or...

798
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:53.159
Towards the end.

799
00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:55.380
Maybe I'm thinking about Falscape now.

800
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.239
I think Gray makes an adorable Vulcan.

801
00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:01.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

802
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.420
I think they're poison is beautiful.

803
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:06.360
Well, he's so elf and normally.

804
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.619
So the pointy years work.

805
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:09.659
Do you know what's lovely about him?

806
00:39:09.659 --> 00:39:10.800
He's lovely, deep voice.

807
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:12.840
He's got a really beautiful voice.

808
00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:16.260
He's really serene too.

809
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:17.280
I just love it.

810
00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:21.000
He's a little bit distressed here because obviously he's going to

811
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:26.699
stop being seen and that's working towards a plot in series four.

812
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:29.699
You know, like, you know, I have many reservations about the

813
00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:30.000
show.

814
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:34.139
I think that is the greatest strength of discovery. is finally

815
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:38.400
Star Trek is for everybody. everybody is included.

816
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:41.280
It's not, you know, like 90s strength.

817
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:43.860
No, you know, black people are here, you're included.

818
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:44.820
Not the gays, though.

819
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:45.539
You're right.

820
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:46.440
You head over, yeah.

821
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.460
It's lovely.

822
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.940
You can be part of a very special episode if you're lucky.

823
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:54.539
Yeah, you know, they won't air it in the southern states, you

824
00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:54.780
know.

825
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:56.280
Yeah, that's right.

826
00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:59.340
And there'll be this huge controversy and we'll have to close off

827
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:01.679
the set for the kiss and what the hell?

828
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:09.539
Now, here is the ridiculous techno babble that explains how a

829
00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:11.280
crying child can set off the burn.

830
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:14.099
But, I mean, come on.

831
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:15.719
There's nothing more Star Trek than this.

832
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:18.000
No, no, no, absolutely.

833
00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:19.739
And it doesn't go on for too long.

834
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:23.519
It is just a few lines and I don't care.

835
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:29.280
It's magic and it's the distress of someone who is isolated, which

836
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:33.179
has resonated throughout the galaxy and that's how the galaxy

837
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:33.960
feels right now.

838
00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:40.380
It feels like this where there are planets where, you know, like

839
00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:44.400
Trill and Navarre, like even Earth has turned into this place

840
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:48.900
that's completely isolated, that's fearful of facing what's

841
00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:50.099
outside.

842
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:53.519
And so I like...

843
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:56.519
The difference is, though, in, you know, in a next generation, this

844
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:57.960
would just be one single way.

845
00:40:58.019 --> 00:41:00.059
It would be Sarzhenka, you know, on the planet.

846
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.239
Not protect the babble, and it would just be a one off.

847
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:06.960
But unfortunately, this time, the dreadful technobabble

848
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:10.320
explanation has a huge impact on the entire series.

849
00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:11.940
Yeah.

850
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.099
What about what about Futu Imperfect?

851
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:15.300
Was it Future and Perfect?

852
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:16.619
The one where the kid?

853
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:20.400
is in the holodeck and he's by himself and he tries to get himself

854
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:21.119
a dad or whatever.

855
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.980
Twist after twist, isn't it?

856
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:23.519
Like, yeah.

857
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:23.880
Yeah.

858
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:25.920
Yeah, that's a good episode that, you know.

859
00:41:25.980 --> 00:41:26.699
Yeah.

860
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.280
But I mean, this obviously borrows from that as well.

861
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:33.300
I love, there's that shot about how the world is degrading, where

862
00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:37.139
it's being shot through a crack in the wall and as they talk about

863
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:40.380
it, the crack in the wall widens, like bits of it fall off.

864
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:45.179
I disagree that this is poorly directed.

865
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:47.039
I think it's magnificently well directed.

866
00:41:47.099 --> 00:41:49.139
I said it was poorly directed.

867
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:52.260
I think Jammer was not particularly happy with it.

868
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:56.039
And people complain about the camera work, but I mean, oh, no, no.

869
00:41:56.039 --> 00:42:00.659
You complain about the camera work when, you know, taking giddy

870
00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:02.340
sickness tablets just to get for a scene.

871
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:04.019
There's none of that going on.

872
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.000
I think he called the camera work obnoxious.

873
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:07.800
Which is a very strong word for this.

874
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:14.940
Well, I think that's this is television now, and it's not...

875
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:17.280
I don't think all television has...

876
00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:18.539
I don't think all TV.

877
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:19.980
No, no, no, no, no, no.

878
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.320
It does look incredible.

879
00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:24.719
Like, you know, our other favourite, Doctor Who.

880
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:26.159
It has a fair budget.

881
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:29.519
They could not do... attempt for what they're doing here.

882
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.139
Yeah.

883
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:31.860
Yeah.

884
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:36.900
And but to sell action, you need to, you know, the way that we do

885
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:39.420
that now is, can I just shake your camera work?

886
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:43.739
point out that there is a gust blowing through this corridor that

887
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:46.199
is making Tilly's hair flow beautifully.

888
00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:49.139
I mean, she's never had more heroic, has she?

889
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.860
Well, I mean, they've turned the life support off, so the oxygen's

890
00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:57.840
coming out with the added benefit of making, oh, debt maze. going

891
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:58.619
to contradict what you're about.

892
00:42:58.679 --> 00:42:59.760
Who the hell are these nobody?

893
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:00.960
She's in this corridor with.

894
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:03.179
I mean, I don't know, any of these bunches.

895
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:04.800
I know you don't know.

896
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:05.699
I know that is.

897
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:06.599
Yeah.

898
00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:09.599
And you know who Oa Shakun is, don't you?

899
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:11.099
Like Joanna Oishakun?

900
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:11.880
Why I do?

901
00:43:11.940 --> 00:43:14.820
But all I know is that every now and again, the 2 of them look

902
00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:19.199
longingly across the room at each other and it's like, are they in

903
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:19.739
a relationship?

904
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.179
No.

905
00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:23.099
Is it just a very strong friendship?

906
00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:26.460
Because it feels like every every episode I've watched, they're

907
00:43:26.460 --> 00:43:27.960
just staring longingly at each other.

908
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:28.260
So.

909
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:31.679
And then we've got Bryce and Reese, both of whom are quite

910
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:31.980
pretty.

911
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.400
And then we have another woman who I don't know who she is.

912
00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:40.019
I mean, I did like the action between Burnham and the Green Woman

913
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:43.619
because I just love Girl and Go action, and that's not as kinky as

914
00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:44.280
it sounds, all right?

915
00:43:44.340 --> 00:43:47.880
Although, there's that appalling bit where they try and convince

916
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.880
you that Burnham has been killed. and I'm just like, really?

917
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:56.460
Well, you know, that's a staple of. just waiting for a bit where

918
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:59.340
the bolt's going to come through and take out, you know, the Orion

919
00:43:59.340 --> 00:43:59.699
woman.

920
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.559
I mean, look at it.

921
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:03.960
I mean, look at like as an affection.

922
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:05.940
Now I love this.

923
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.719
This is incredible.

924
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:12.239
So I always wondered how the Turbo Lifts worked in Star Trek the

925
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:12.840
Next Generation.

926
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:15.780
Like, is there a network of tubes throughout the ship, then they

927
00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:17.340
run along the tubes thing?

928
00:44:17.340 --> 00:44:19.079
And Discovery's way of solving this.

929
00:44:19.139 --> 00:44:23.039
And this isn't just 31st century technology because it happens

930
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:29.159
inside the enterprise in the 23rd century is that they float in

931
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:32.760
this massive, weird, incomprehensible space.

932
00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:35.219
How does it even fit in the shit?

933
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.380
Is that what they're suggesting that was happening in next gym?

934
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.480
Oh, no, no, no, because we actually go up the shafts, don't we?

935
00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:43.500
We go off a lift shop.

936
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:44.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

937
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:45.179
We climb up the shafts.

938
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:46.440
Your favourite, remember?

939
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:46.920
Disaster.

940
00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:48.239
They go up all the kids.

941
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:49.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

942
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:49.980
Yeah, I'd forgotten that.

943
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:51.300
And they do it in some of the movies too.

944
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.480
But this is so visually great that I don't give a shit.

945
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:58.920
Like, what we're asking for is it should really be more boring.

946
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:02.820
You know, like let's have tubes and instead it's like visually

947
00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:03.420
really interesting.

948
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:05.820
And there's a shot here where these things that they go through

949
00:45:05.820 --> 00:45:09.719
are actually appearing, they're being created out of programmable

950
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:15.420
matter as they go along, which does seem extravagant. extravagant.

951
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:17.820
That's a fair word for this episode.

952
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:21.059
So, okay, well, then my question to you is this.

953
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:26.099
If this is more visually stimulating than some of the movies, is

954
00:45:26.099 --> 00:45:30.000
it that the movies aren't as visually ambitious as this?

955
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:36.239
Well, obviously the technology is better, but I also think that, um

956
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:41.519
because I think that it's, it's a Kurtzman Trek thing, and I don't

957
00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:48.059
know who it comes from, but they absolutely want it to look as

958
00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:50.219
well, I look as good as it possibly can.

959
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:55.679
Like, I just feel like that budget is no, no barrier with Kersman

960
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:55.980
trip.

961
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:59.940
Yeah, but it's also like this is look at that set.

962
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.360
That set for the computer core is stunning.

963
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:05.280
Holy crap, it's beautiful.

964
00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:08.760
And, you know, I complain about reflective surfaces in 90s track.

965
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.900
There's plenty there.

966
00:46:10.019 --> 00:46:12.420
Look at the reflective surface.

967
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:13.679
A camera better stay still.

968
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:15.960
Otherwise, it's better be seen in one of those surfaces.

969
00:46:16.019 --> 00:46:17.340
Oh my.

970
00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:18.300
It's beautiful.

971
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:19.559
I mean, don't get me wrong.

972
00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:23.039
This is all, this all, this action is all very good, but I

973
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:25.440
remember as I was watching it, I was just going, is this still

974
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:25.800
going on?

975
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:32.699
Like, you know, but but I think that had 90s trick been able to do

976
00:46:32.699 --> 00:46:35.940
this, it would have settled for it.

977
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.280
It's hard to say.

978
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:41.219
Because big episodes, that's what they go for.

979
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.840
So, yeah.

980
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:48.659
You know, they're more action-y. but in a sort of stately and not

981
00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:49.320
very good world.

982
00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:54.539
So, like, compare the beginning of descent part one, which we

983
00:46:54.539 --> 00:46:58.739
looked at where there's that firefight, which is so listless.

984
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.579
It's all just like, someone comes out from behind a console, ducks

985
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:03.119
away again.

986
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.619
That's it.

987
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.119
We just stand there shooting.

988
00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:11.519
There are like, do you remember the CGMAR 558 where they poured a

989
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:13.920
lot of money into a big action set piece?

990
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:15.659
And it was kind of chaotic.

991
00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:19.019
And you couldn't really, there wasn't any narrative to it.

992
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:22.079
It was just ugly and nasty and there was just a lot of death.

993
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.260
Um, but even that's different to this.

994
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.739
Like there is kind of a narrative to all the action.

995
00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:34.920
One of the things that discovery does, I think, is it, it does the

996
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:40.860
heist thing where it makes it very clear to you what this is for.

997
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:47.639
So Burnham is going to the data core to reset the computer because

998
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.420
it's running an Orion operating system.

999
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:58.440
And the others are trying to detach the Nassell to bring them out

1000
00:47:58.440 --> 00:47:59.099
of warp.

1001
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:03.119
And it's made clear what we're trying to do and why.

1002
00:48:03.179 --> 00:48:04.679
And then the action happens.

1003
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:05.820
And they always do that.

1004
00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:08.820
And I think they set up action sequences right from the very 1st

1005
00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:12.659
episode where something strange is happening and we're finding a

1006
00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:15.599
new way to use technology or something to do it.

1007
00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:19.320
I don't think that discovery just devolves into everyone stands

1008
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:20.099
around shooting one another.

1009
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.739
Well, I mean, like, you know, thank you very much for the

1010
00:48:22.739 --> 00:48:25.079
explanations because the action goes on so fucking long.

1011
00:48:25.139 --> 00:48:28.019
I forget after the time what they're trying to do, you know?

1012
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:31.800
But I think there's another thing, right?

1013
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:38.519
And it's a Doctor Who fandom thing as well, that because our shows

1014
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:45.719
had no budget in particular, and therefore they consisted in

1015
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:49.199
Doctor Who's case of lots of standing, talking urgently in

1016
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:53.460
corridors, and in Star Trek's case of sitting around a table

1017
00:48:53.460 --> 00:49:01.500
talking urgently about space problems, we decided that that was a

1018
00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:02.940
virtue rather than a problem problem.

1019
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.539
And the shows themselves made it a virtue.

1020
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:11.039
And so they tried to work given that framework.

1021
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:17.039
And I think, though, and I've said this before, part of

1022
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.320
television's job is to be television, that it can't just be a

1023
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.380
televised radio player, a televised stage play.

1024
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.340
It's got to put striking visuals on screen.

1025
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:34.559
And that's something that Kurtzman Trek does and something that

1026
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:39.719
90s Trek really doesn't do that much of or that well.

1027
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:41.400
I think it can.

1028
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.019
I don't think it has to.

1029
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:46.860
And I said it in the Power Moonlight, which we agreed, was

1030
00:49:46.860 --> 00:49:49.920
basically set within one room and I'm sorry.

1031
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:53.039
I think it's a 1000000 times more interesting than this.

1032
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.940
But I was so invested in that.

1033
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.460
Whereas with this, I just kept switching off.

1034
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:03.840
Well, I'm more invested in it, I think, because I've watched the

1035
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.360
season all the way through and I kind of know all these

1036
00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:07.019
characters.

1037
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:11.340
You know, that that horrible guy who, um, book kicks out of the

1038
00:50:11.340 --> 00:50:15.659
turbo lift is the evil guy who was menacing Tilly in episode two.

1039
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:20.940
Um, you know, there's all sorts of characters that have come back

1040
00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:22.679
and things that are happening and stuff.

1041
00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:27.059
So I care about these these characters and what's happening here.

1042
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:31.019
And because I've watched the 1st 2 episodes and like last week's

1043
00:50:31.019 --> 00:50:33.900
episode, I think, was really well done action.

1044
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:36.000
But I like the weirdness too.

1045
00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:37.679
And we talked about this in forget me or not.

1046
00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:41.699
I, you know, the Troll Planet was stunning and all the kite, I

1047
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:43.920
don't know where they were in the pools and they were going

1048
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:47.519
through, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and all that was very weird and

1049
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:47.940
interesting.

1050
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:49.800
I don't object to any of that.

1051
00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:51.119
I don't know if you actually are looking pretty.

1052
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:55.199
I don't object to it, you know, being a bit in your face.

1053
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:58.619
I feel like, like in this, it was just constantly stuffing things

1054
00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:02.820
down my neck and I was just like, just stay still for a minute, you

1055
00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:05.639
know, and just like, let me take in what's going on.

1056
00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:10.199
Well, you know, like if you want sort of stately trek where

1057
00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:13.679
they're all standing around talking, there's 100s of episodes of

1058
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:13.800
that.

1059
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:14.699
Not all the time.

1060
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.380
Yeah, it was just it was a lot.

1061
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:18.719
It was a lot happening with a lot of people.

1062
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:20.940
A lot of imagery.

1063
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:22.320
Yeah.

1064
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.300
A lot of experience, my best of both.

1065
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:25.260
A lot of tech that babble.

1066
00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:26.820
Think about...

1067
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:31.320
Yeah, but I think that Star Trek wants to do that even in the 90s

1068
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:35.340
but just can't afford to and just isn't good at it.

1069
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:40.199
And so it finds a groove where it can just cheaply have all of our

1070
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:42.119
regular cars standing around the standing set.

1071
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:46.139
And we create an episode out of that. duet would be a better

1072
00:51:46.139 --> 00:51:52.320
episode if they literally threw weird visuals at you and action

1073
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:53.880
and all of that nonsense.

1074
00:51:53.940 --> 00:52:00.480
Like, no, it's 2 people in a room and it means something and...

1075
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:06.000
But they, they create a way of doing that, that work.

1076
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:08.280
It doesn't always work.

1077
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:10.440
Yes, through the acting.

1078
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:18.239
But, um, I think that that's not what you would want all the time

1079
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:19.559
even in 90s.

1080
00:52:19.619 --> 00:52:21.119
Well, no, because they push away from it, isn't they?

1081
00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:24.420
When they can afford to do CGI action, they absolutely do it.

1082
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:24.840
Exactly.

1083
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:25.800
Yeah.

1084
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:29.460
Things like duet and in the pale moonlight are not run-of-the-mill

1085
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:30.360
trek.

1086
00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:35.579
They are super special where they decide, or, you know, things

1087
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:38.579
like counterpoint and stuff where they're going to, they're going

1088
00:52:38.579 --> 00:52:43.800
to base an episode around the acting performances of 2 characters

1089
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.199
and they partly do that because they don't have very much money.

1090
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:49.800
And so they lean into what they can afford to do and sometimes

1091
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:51.900
they do a spectacular job of it.

1092
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:57.360
Whereas here, they can afford to do action and they can afford to

1093
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:03.059
make it exciting in a way that 90s Shrek often couldn't.

1094
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:06.840
And do you remember at the time when Star Trek The Next Generation

1095
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.260
came out and people would talk about how it was just people?

1096
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:12.179
It was just nothing else like it, was there?

1097
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:14.280
But I'm, that's true.

1098
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:16.920
And I remember thinking it was very cinematic at the time.

1099
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:21.059
But it was just lots of speechifying people giving speeches.

1100
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:22.920
He's Patrick Stewart giving a giant speech.

1101
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:26.760
Terrible speeches as well, you know. loneliness speeches, you

1102
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:26.880
know?

1103
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:33.599
But remember that that 60s trek wants to be more action-y. 90s

1104
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:34.260
tracks.

1105
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:36.239
It was to be very fucking weird at times.

1106
00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:37.440
Hands coming down.

1107
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.260
You know, Abraham Lincoln floating through space.

1108
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:41.400
Yeah.

1109
00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:44.340
And this wants to be that as well.

1110
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:48.239
And so the... yeah, go.

1111
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:49.019
I know.

1112
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.900
I mean, we're never going to agree on this point, are we?

1113
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.340
But it's interesting to talk about.

1114
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:56.760
It's like having up, I said to you, this is like confection, yeah?

1115
00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:59.280
It's just, it's, it's delicious.

1116
00:53:59.340 --> 00:53:59.820
Yeah.

1117
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:03.539
But like, someone could buy me a big box of chocolates, yeah. and

1118
00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:06.719
I'll eat 5 or 6 and that's wonderful.

1119
00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:09.840
If I eat a whole box, then I feel sick as a dog.

1120
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:12.659
And I feel as if I eaten a whole box of chocolates by the end of

1121
00:54:12.659 --> 00:54:12.840
this.

1122
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:15.179
It was just it was too much.

1123
00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:19.139
But the show isn't always like this.

1124
00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:24.059
This is the season finale, and this is their big action set piece

1125
00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:24.840
to end the season.

1126
00:54:24.900 --> 00:54:28.139
And, you know, because I've complained in this series one that it

1127
00:54:28.139 --> 00:54:30.360
was all very underwhelming and there weren't enough action.

1128
00:54:31.019 --> 00:54:33.059
You can't win with me.

1129
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:39.480
So we had episodes like Forget Me Not, or the one on Navarre that

1130
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:43.260
were very talky and very character focussed.

1131
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:46.619
And now we just have our big blowing things up thing to end the

1132
00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:47.099
season.

1133
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:49.139
What's the planet of Saru's planet?

1134
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:50.519
What's that called?

1135
00:54:50.579 --> 00:54:54.179
That episode was just stunning.

1136
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:55.980
With his, was it his sister?

1137
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:57.420
Yeah.

1138
00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:59.159
Oh, man, it was so beautiful.

1139
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:04.199
But it did like it absolutely slow. the pace down and made it just

1140
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.480
in pretty much entirely carrot focussed.

1141
00:55:06.539 --> 00:55:11.460
And so and so the show has only like 13 episodes a year or

1142
00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:14.039
sometimes a bit more or whatever.

1143
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:18.000
And this, I mean, this is slow.

1144
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:20.099
This is not full of action.

1145
00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:22.679
There's a B plot. set in a haunted house.

1146
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:26.760
That's a bizarre juxtaposition that you've got all of this mental

1147
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:33.780
action taking place and then these kind of samey dialogue scenes

1148
00:55:33.780 --> 00:55:35.940
occurring in this in this hologram.

1149
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.880
It's like, it's like fast, fast, fast, slow.

1150
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:39.780
Fast, fast, fast.

1151
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.400
That's, but that's the sort of thing that only Star Trek can do.

1152
00:55:44.460 --> 00:55:45.360
That's what I want.

1153
00:55:45.420 --> 00:55:48.119
I want Star Trek to do weird things.

1154
00:55:48.179 --> 00:55:53.219
And here, what we have is this little family being reconstructed

1155
00:55:53.219 --> 00:55:53.820
around him.

1156
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:57.900
And there's a beautiful line, and it's so simple and it's a little

1157
00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:02.099
bit cliche, where he kind of realises he's on his own, his family

1158
00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:05.099
have died, his mother is dead, in what is it really, kind of

1159
00:56:05.099 --> 00:56:06.239
horrific scene, we'll get there.

1160
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:12.179
Um, and, and, you know, I think, Hugh, maybe just says you have

1161
00:56:12.179 --> 00:56:12.659
us.

1162
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:16.079
And that's what the show is about.

1163
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:18.360
An entire...

1164
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:20.699
That little family, you know, have they done that?

1165
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:23.159
They're like, oh, they should.

1166
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.300
They absolutely should.

1167
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:28.019
Um, you know, it's interesting because you were talking about sort

1168
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:31.500
of the fantasy led, the various tale aspects of this.

1169
00:56:31.619 --> 00:56:36.420
And I think like discovery leads into that a lot, you know?

1170
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.059
Whereas Picard far less.

1171
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:42.179
Picard is more of a bit like sort of Blade Runner, isn't it?

1172
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:44.579
It's a picture of the future.

1173
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.619
It's more technology about.

1174
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:48.840
Oh no, you had those weird flowers like in the last one.

1175
00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:52.500
And there's a few bits and bulbs, but generally speaking, it's a

1176
00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:54.360
lot less fancy based than this.

1177
00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:55.260
Yeah.

1178
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:56.760
Yeah.

1179
00:56:57.300 --> 00:57:01.079
Well, no, but I think Berman Trek prefers it.

1180
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:05.579
And I think Berman Trek reacts against the weirdness of original

1181
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:09.539
series Trek and maybe the weirdness of early next gen as well. not

1182
00:57:09.539 --> 00:57:10.679
calling it Burman Trek anymore, right?

1183
00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:11.820
Calling it 90s trek.

1184
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:13.260
Bad taste in the mouth.

1185
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:14.880
Yeah, yeah.

1186
00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:22.079
Yeah, so like 90s Shrek is a little bit more state and a bit

1187
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:25.860
limited in what it's going to do and it will do weird stuff.

1188
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:28.800
I do think we can criticise it for that because that's where TV

1189
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:31.440
was at the time, you know, like, sure.

1190
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:35.280
And we love we love it, you know, but I'm glad that when it came

1191
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:39.900
back, you know, now, we get something much weirder.

1192
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:46.860
I'm glad that they have the capacity to put, well, 5 now, 5 very

1193
00:57:46.860 --> 00:57:48.659
different Star Trek shows out.

1194
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:51.599
There is a Star Trek to suit every person.

1195
00:57:51.659 --> 00:57:52.920
Whatever you want.

1196
00:57:52.980 --> 00:57:53.760
Do you want fantasy?

1197
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:54.780
Watch discovery.

1198
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.219
Do you want something more serious?

1199
00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:57.000
Watch Picard.

1200
00:57:57.059 --> 00:58:01.079
Do you want something that is kind of a little bit, kids, go watch

1201
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:01.679
prodigy?

1202
00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:04.019
You want to laugh your head off or watch lower decks?

1203
00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:05.400
Strangely worlds.

1204
00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:06.300
And then we'll have.

1205
00:58:06.420 --> 00:58:07.860
Well, you want something episodic?

1206
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.599
there we go Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1207
00:58:09.659 --> 00:58:10.079
Yeah.

1208
00:58:10.139 --> 00:58:12.900
I think it'll be a bit more serialised than that because I don't

1209
00:58:12.900 --> 00:58:15.780
think you can do just episodic anymore.

1210
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:18.960
I don't think we could ever have something like Star Trek the Next

1211
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:19.440
Generation.

1212
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:20.880
And you wouldn't want it.

1213
00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:23.400
That thing where they just forget what happened to them last week

1214
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:24.420
every week.

1215
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:26.760
I think is a bit stupid.

1216
00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:28.500
This is awful, isn't it?

1217
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:34.739
Like, they've aged the actor down to play, like, this, it's like a

1218
00:58:34.739 --> 00:58:38.340
kid, but they've stuck that guy's CGI head.

1219
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.360
You'll use it.

1220
00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:40.619
You said you wanted weird.

1221
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:44.460
I know, absolutely.

1222
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:48.059
But the dying mother, like it was a radiation burn. that's what he

1223
00:58:48.059 --> 00:58:50.579
looks like With big eyes.

1224
00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:56.699
But the mother is like, that's super upsetting.

1225
00:58:56.760 --> 00:59:00.239
It's like quite horrible and now we're going to see the cause of

1226
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:00.900
the burn.

1227
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:05.400
And the cause of the burn is someone who is just completely

1228
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:10.619
isolated and we've had isolation versus connection all the way

1229
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:11.039
through.

1230
00:59:11.099 --> 00:59:15.300
And so if it's going to be an accident, it's an accident that ties

1231
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:18.599
into the theme, not just of this series, but of this show.

1232
00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:22.860
I was, I was kept waiting for another twist.

1233
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:26.280
I was like, no, no, it wasn't, it was really the Romulans

1234
00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:28.260
screaming out for his mother dying.

1235
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:32.519
But actually, this is where, yeah, the ship swoops in and courses

1236
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:33.300
the back.

1237
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:35.340
No, genuinely what's that?

1238
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:36.480
Yeah.

1239
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:38.400
I mean, it's the state.

1240
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:39.059
It's unique.

1241
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:41.519
I don't like it, but it is distinct.

1242
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:46.139
But I just can't imagine a space reasons thing that would have

1243
00:59:46.139 --> 00:59:47.039
been more satisfying.

1244
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:52.199
I think I need to, I really want to go out and see what the

1245
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:52.920
reaction was.

1246
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:56.039
And for once, I very rarely want to go onto the internet and see

1247
00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:56.579
what people think.

1248
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.820
But this is so I can imagine divisive.

1249
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:02.639
I don't yeah, I don't know.

1250
01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:03.659
I don't know.

1251
01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:08.400
Like I said, I thought it was a weird, strange, unexpected choice

1252
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:13.500
but rewatching the 3 parter over the last week just sells me on

1253
01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:13.619
it.

1254
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:17.460
I think it's exactly what they should have done.

1255
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:19.920
And what else can they do?

1256
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:25.980
I think once once it's a villain doing it, then we have a regular

1257
01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:28.860
villain and that's not what this show wants to do.

1258
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:30.059
They're kind of like...

1259
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:33.659
But that's what, oh, yeah, I'll keep comparing this to 90s. that's

1260
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:35.400
what 9 Trek was doing all the time, wasn't it?

1261
01:00:35.460 --> 01:00:36.539
was terrible things happen.

1262
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:38.579
It was one of our major powers involved.

1263
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:41.639
The Touchiar or whoever, you know.

1264
01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:48.059
There is an anxiety around power sources in this show.

1265
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:51.239
And I, well, not just dilithium.

1266
01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:56.760
Remember that the emperor had a big galaxy destroying power

1267
01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:57.239
source?

1268
01:00:57.300 --> 01:00:58.500
What's the parallel?

1269
01:00:58.559 --> 01:00:59.519
They want nuclear energy?

1270
01:00:59.699 --> 01:01:05.219
No, I think that there's stuff about fossil fuels and fear about

1271
01:01:05.219 --> 01:01:07.320
dependency.

1272
01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:13.440
So remember that we depend on a small number of countries for most

1273
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:21.900
of our fossil fuel and the whole thing about that creates

1274
01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:22.679
anxiety.

1275
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:24.119
There's all sorts of diplomatic stuff.

1276
01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:25.500
I think that's absolutely here.

1277
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:28.320
I think explicit changes in forming this.

1278
01:01:28.380 --> 01:01:29.639
No reading.

1279
01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:31.920
But there's scarcity around power.

1280
01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:36.960
And, you know, the whole point is there's no dilithium left or

1281
01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:40.079
very little dilithium we've run out of dilithium.

1282
01:01:40.139 --> 01:01:44.519
And we've been put in a situation where dilithium can't be safely

1283
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:49.320
used because it will create a, you know, a galaxy destroying

1284
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:49.980
cataclysm.

1285
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:51.539
How are they powering their ships now then?

1286
01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:54.119
So they are using dilithium.

1287
01:01:54.179 --> 01:01:57.000
There's a bit of dilithium, but not very much, and the dilithium

1288
01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:00.119
scarcity gets solved here because it's a whole planet.

1289
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:00.780
Okay.

1290
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:01.199
Yeah, yeah.

1291
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:04.079
So going forward, is that just basically going to be, well, we've

1292
01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:04.980
got dilithium now.

1293
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:05.760
Let's go.

1294
01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:11.219
Well, in fact, the 1st the 1st scene of series 4 has book and

1295
01:02:11.219 --> 01:02:17.400
Michael bringing dilithium to a very, very impressively weird

1296
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:18.599
looking planner.

1297
01:02:18.659 --> 01:02:22.800
It's a great scene, a really good action scene that's properly

1298
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:23.159
funny.

1299
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:25.500
Well, now I've seen this.

1300
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:28.800
I should probably watch series four, you know, and keep going.

1301
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:31.079
I'm really enjoying it.

1302
01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:35.219
There's one thing that we're not enjoying whilst we're watching

1303
01:02:35.219 --> 01:02:38.400
this and that is the music of this episode.

1304
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:41.639
And I think I think the music, you are right.

1305
01:02:41.699 --> 01:02:45.539
Music across the board in Kursman Trek is extremely...

1306
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.400
Oh, there's soundtracks, because I think I'd quite like to get

1307
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:47.880
some soundtrack.

1308
01:02:47.940 --> 01:02:48.539
Yeah, there are.

1309
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:49.800
I have to buy that.

1310
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:53.880
And there's a piece in a minute and I actually messaged you and

1311
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:55.739
said, my God, there's something I've actually enjoyed.

1312
01:02:55.980 --> 01:03:00.119
And that was where he goes to turn the hologram off and it's like

1313
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:01.920
a, it is very fairy tale.

1314
01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:05.639
It's like this very light, playful piece of music as he goes to

1315
01:03:05.639 --> 01:03:06.900
put his hand down on the thing.

1316
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.119
And I felt something because of the music, not because of the

1317
01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:15.059
content, really, not because of the writing, but the music.

1318
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:18.179
Mate, it made me imote.

1319
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:18.599
Yeah.

1320
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:22.559
I think I think the music is astonishingly good.

1321
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:26.280
And it's something that 90s Streak is generally very bad at.

1322
01:03:26.340 --> 01:03:31.920
Um, and, well, you know, like with the odd notable exception, uh

1323
01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:36.780
we've said before that 90s trek music is mostly to tell you where

1324
01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:37.619
there's a commercial break.

1325
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:41.760
There's more diversity. and there's just more emotion in the

1326
01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:42.000
music.

1327
01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:43.320
Oh, no, it's better.

1328
01:03:43.380 --> 01:03:49.199
So this is Jeff Rasso. who does the um the theme as well.

1329
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:54.900
But they've also had Michael Giacchino, who created the, um, theme

1330
01:03:54.900 --> 01:04:01.739
to the Star Trek, um, you know, the recent 3 Star Trek movies sort

1331
01:04:01.739 --> 01:04:02.219
of reason.

1332
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:05.280
And so they have good composers.

1333
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:07.199
And I just think the music is stunningly good.

1334
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:10.320
So does Saru look after this man child now then?

1335
01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:12.360
Is that where the series goes?

1336
01:04:12.420 --> 01:04:13.380
So he's a regular.

1337
01:04:13.980 --> 01:04:21.239
He's not a regular, and but he does turn up, and you've seen the

1338
01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:21.780
end of this.

1339
01:04:21.780 --> 01:04:28.260
Saru goes back to Kaminar with him, which is what his mother asked

1340
01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:30.780
for in the hologram.

1341
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.860
And we do see Saru re-engaging with Kaminara as well.

1342
01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:35.760
Oh, okay.

1343
01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:37.920
So is he there permanently in series 4?

1344
01:04:37.980 --> 01:04:38.579
Or is he?

1345
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:39.119
No.

1346
01:04:39.179 --> 01:04:42.420
So he does come back and he becomes the 1st officer.

1347
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:44.940
And because he's a captain as well.

1348
01:04:45.059 --> 01:04:50.460
They tend to call him Mr. Saru, which I just think is spectacular

1349
01:04:50.460 --> 01:04:55.019
like Mr. Spock. it's so good Oh hang on a minute.

1350
01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:55.500
Hang on.

1351
01:04:55.559 --> 01:04:58.739
I think I think we, oh, have I completely missed a bit where

1352
01:04:58.739 --> 01:05:02.340
they're all kind of given each other dough eyes because they've

1353
01:05:02.340 --> 01:05:03.300
all...

1354
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:05.519
They're like the family back together.

1355
01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:09.179
Yeah, I love that, though.

1356
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:10.739
A bit much for me.

1357
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:14.039
I love I love seeing Michael Shake.

1358
01:05:14.099 --> 01:05:17.760
There are some things that like I thought that the end of series 2

1359
01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:21.900
was too weepy and that series 2 leaned into... yeah, yeah.

1360
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:23.639
It really annoyed me.

1361
01:05:23.699 --> 01:05:29.820
But, you know, Michael, like Sanequa is an incredible actor and

1362
01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:32.340
has the most beautiful smile.

1363
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:33.599
She lights up the screen.

1364
01:05:33.659 --> 01:05:34.139
Here we go.

1365
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:36.119
She's disconnectionally charming.

1366
01:05:36.179 --> 01:05:37.800
That's how this future began.

1367
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:42.780
One moment in time that radiated outward, though, until no one

1368
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:45.480
even remembered the connection was possible when him.

1369
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:46.920
See when I say it, it's even worse.

1370
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:52.320
We've got these slow motion shots of them all connected.

1371
01:05:52.380 --> 01:05:55.079
There's Detmar connecting with Oo.

1372
01:05:55.139 --> 01:05:55.800
Look at them.

1373
01:05:55.860 --> 01:05:59.099
I mean, there is such a thing of subtlety, right?

1374
01:05:59.159 --> 01:05:59.579
You know?

1375
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:00.780
Yeah.

1376
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:04.980
But, you know, like...

1377
01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:05.760
This I can buy.

1378
01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:07.559
We want to see it.

1379
01:06:07.739 --> 01:06:09.480
And you know what?

1380
01:06:09.539 --> 01:06:13.199
There's, there's, there's a, there's a wonderful, I said this to

1381
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:14.940
you in, forget me not, about burning.

1382
01:06:15.059 --> 01:06:15.300
This is.

1383
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:20.039
There's a wonderful kind of relaxed warmth about her in this

1384
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:20.340
season.

1385
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:23.280
And I said to you in a message, she's way better this year.

1386
01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:25.320
I really like her this year.

1387
01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:28.739
And if nothing else, they've turned me around on that.

1388
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:30.900
I still don't like the fact that she's the captain because I want

1389
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:31.440
Saru back.

1390
01:06:31.619 --> 01:06:36.119
Yeah, and look, here's um, here's our trill woman from Forget Me

1391
01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:36.360
Not.

1392
01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:41.099
She's come back. to uh, yeah, yes, shake hands and rejoin the

1393
01:06:41.099 --> 01:06:42.840
federation. as ever.

1394
01:06:42.900 --> 01:06:43.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1395
01:06:43.739 --> 01:06:45.599
Forward straight from equilibrium.

1396
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:48.119
And here's the lady from Navarre.

1397
01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:52.500
See, I I really enjoyed this last 10 minutes.

1398
01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:55.320
And it felt like we were stepping off.

1399
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:55.920
Look at that shot.

1400
01:06:55.980 --> 01:06:57.480
Look at that shot.

1401
01:06:57.539 --> 01:06:59.579
It's beautiful.

1402
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:01.800
It is.

1403
01:07:01.860 --> 01:07:05.519
And it felt like it felt like we were heading into an optimistic

1404
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.920
future with the show, you know?

1405
01:07:07.980 --> 01:07:12.300
We just had to get over the end of this tedious arc to get there.

1406
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:12.659
Oh, sorry.

1407
01:07:13.500 --> 01:07:16.380
I mean, this arc was about that, wasn't it?

1408
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.559
It was about concentrating that down into a fairy tale and getting

1409
01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:21.659
these negotiations to play out.

1410
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:22.980
This is Lieutenant Sahil.

1411
01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:28.380
He was the man in the 1st episode of series 3 in the 1st shot who

1412
01:07:28.380 --> 01:07:29.280
was by himself.

1413
01:07:29.340 --> 01:07:32.699
Yeah, that scene was waiting for the Federation to come.

1414
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:36.599
And that's why this is called that hope is you part 2 because

1415
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:40.920
Michael came along, met him, gave him hope for the Federation, and

1416
01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:41.699
now here he is.

1417
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:43.440
She's joined the federal.

1418
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:45.659
Put all those episodes in between.

1419
01:07:45.659 --> 01:07:48.000
The 2 two, the 2 episodes.

1420
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:52.800
I think calling I think calling the Navarre episode unification

1421
01:07:52.800 --> 01:07:54.840
part 3 is cheeky.

1422
01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:57.719
No, if you want cheeky.

1423
01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:59.039
It's those lower deck tiles.

1424
01:07:59.099 --> 01:07:59.639
What is it?

1425
01:07:59.699 --> 01:08:02.099
We'd always have Tom Paris or something.

1426
01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:05.400
So good.

1427
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:06.780
But do you know what as well?

1428
01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:07.860
This gives me hope.

1429
01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:10.500
Because look, what we've got in these last 10 minutes, loads of

1430
01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:11.820
people standing around in space rooms.

1431
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:12.480
Yay.

1432
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:13.199
Yay!

1433
01:08:13.260 --> 01:08:14.159
That's right.

1434
01:08:14.219 --> 01:08:15.300
That's what I always wanted.

1435
01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:18.359
It's a beautiful shot too.

1436
01:08:18.420 --> 01:08:21.119
I think they're doing the thing that they must do on the

1437
01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:24.000
Mandalorian where that's not, I don't know.

1438
01:08:24.060 --> 01:08:25.739
Maybe it is keyed in afterwards.

1439
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:29.520
But, you know, is it playing on a big screen?

1440
01:08:29.579 --> 01:08:30.539
That's Admiral Van.

1441
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.340
I really want to fuck him. you know, he's beautiful.

1442
01:08:32.460 --> 01:08:33.960
He's really handsome.

1443
01:08:34.020 --> 01:08:34.859
Yeah.

1444
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:37.079
Sorry for saying that, but he's true.

1445
01:08:37.140 --> 01:08:39.300
No, it's a thing.

1446
01:08:39.539 --> 01:08:42.000
Yeah, I think he's terrific.

1447
01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:43.439
And I love that he's a regular.

1448
01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:46.380
I love that there are people here.

1449
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:49.260
And the way that he's warm to Michael.

1450
01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:52.800
Like, I have objected to this episode a fair amount.

1451
01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:56.039
But I'm not saying the building blocks of this city.

1452
01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.199
I think going into the future was a great idea.

1453
01:08:58.260 --> 01:09:01.199
I think rebuilding the Federation is a great idea.

1454
01:09:01.260 --> 01:09:05.220
I think that going forward, they could do some really interesting

1455
01:09:05.220 --> 01:09:05.819
things.

1456
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:10.140
I'm not sure they did it in the 2nd half of this season, but going

1457
01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:13.260
forward, they absolutely, the potential is there, you know?

1458
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.100
Yeah.

1459
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:17.880
Well, I'm really enjoying series 4, which is on at the moment.

1460
01:09:17.939 --> 01:09:19.739
Is Georgia back?

1461
01:09:19.739 --> 01:09:20.939
Terribly interesting.

1462
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:21.720
No.

1463
01:09:21.779 --> 01:09:24.659
And there's some more upsetting issues.

1464
01:09:24.779 --> 01:09:25.739
We need an arsehole in this show.

1465
01:09:25.739 --> 01:09:27.479
Every, what, what?

1466
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:29.460
No, no, no, it's fine.

1467
01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:29.939
Okay.

1468
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:30.840
No one's dead.

1469
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:31.319
Oh, okay.

1470
01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:33.420
I thought you were going to tell me something tragic then.

1471
01:09:33.479 --> 01:09:35.460
You do need that.

1472
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:37.680
Like, she brought something to this show.

1473
01:09:37.739 --> 01:09:39.300
They're also bloody nice.

1474
01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.960
Well, she was the Garrick of the show, I think.

1475
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:43.260
Yeah.

1476
01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:43.560
Yeah.

1477
01:09:43.619 --> 01:09:44.460
Yeah.

1478
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:48.359
But whenever, you know, if in the end of this episode where

1479
01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:51.300
they're all giving each other doe eyes, she'd be the one walking

1480
01:09:51.300 --> 01:09:52.739
around, she'd be stabbing the odd person.

1481
01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:54.300
Yeah, yeah, she'd make fun of them.

1482
01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:56.220
Yeah, she shoots someone in the head or something, you know, like

1483
01:09:56.220 --> 01:09:58.140
too much lovey-dabbiness.

1484
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:03.479
I love too, the fact that the future gave us the chance to

1485
01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:06.060
reinvent our Star Trek looks as well.

1486
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:07.500
Yeah I like that.

1487
01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:13.140
And it, and it, and it, I know we've said this before about how

1488
01:10:13.140 --> 01:10:16.739
you know, what's discovery going to look like original pre

1489
01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:17.819
original trek technology.

1490
01:10:17.819 --> 01:10:18.300
Yeah.

1491
01:10:18.300 --> 01:10:23.399
It's never going to happen, but this gives an excuse now. that

1492
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:26.579
doesn't isn't going to upset all those, you know, those cannon

1493
01:10:26.579 --> 01:10:27.300
meisters.

1494
01:10:27.420 --> 01:10:31.260
No, I like upsetting those people and I'm sorry that we can't

1495
01:10:31.260 --> 01:10:31.859
think anymore.

1496
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:32.760
Terrible.

1497
01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:36.659
But look, look.

1498
01:10:36.659 --> 01:10:37.319
Oh, I love her.

1499
01:10:37.380 --> 01:10:38.939
Reno, I think she's great.

1500
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:42.180
Oh, actually, she's the asshole now, isn't she?

1501
01:10:42.300 --> 01:10:44.279
Yeah, yeah, she's terrific.

1502
01:10:44.340 --> 01:10:45.479
She's underused.

1503
01:10:45.539 --> 01:10:47.100
She's only in just a couple of scenes.

1504
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.779
I don't think she even gets a line in this episode.

1505
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:51.479
We don't see enough of her, but she is magnificent.

1506
01:10:51.539 --> 01:10:52.800
There's a reason for that, isn't it?

1507
01:10:52.859 --> 01:10:55.079
I swear I read an interview saying that she don't need done a

1508
01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:55.859
little bit for a reason.

1509
01:10:56.399 --> 01:10:58.020
I don't know.

1510
01:10:58.380 --> 01:11:02.579
Oh, look in that eye, that shot of her braided hair.

1511
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:04.199
Oh, no, I don't know.

1512
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:06.000
Look, I'm all looking up itself.

1513
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:07.380
Congratulatory.

1514
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:09.659
Well, they're in these uniforms.

1515
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:12.600
These sexy new 31st century uniforms.

1516
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:15.000
Do you think, I think, no visible zippers?

1517
01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:17.039
But you think they came for that sort of plumber look, that

1518
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:18.000
Enterprise did.

1519
01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:19.079
They're all gray, you know?

1520
01:11:19.140 --> 01:11:21.659
No, no, no.

1521
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:23.640
They're not one piece suits anymore.

1522
01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:26.220
I mean, they had the one piece suits.

1523
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:27.180
Let's fly.

1524
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:28.079
Look.

1525
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:31.140
Smiles, she's so beautiful.

1526
01:11:31.140 --> 01:11:31.859
And the music here.

1527
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:33.899
The, the, the, the, the Trek music.

1528
01:11:33.960 --> 01:11:35.159
Yes, they just...

1529
01:11:35.220 --> 01:11:37.859
Well, in fact, they just do the original trek music for the

1530
01:11:37.859 --> 01:11:41.220
closing credits. like just a redone version of it.

1531
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:44.279
The splash as it goes through that force field.

1532
01:11:44.340 --> 01:11:45.180
It's so weird.

1533
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:46.020
It's so great.

1534
01:11:46.140 --> 01:11:47.399
I'll tell you what was good about.

1535
01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:48.300
Series 3.

1536
01:11:48.659 --> 01:11:50.220
Oh, another good thing.

1537
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:53.340
The thing I really objected to in series 2 was all of that kind of

1538
01:11:53.340 --> 01:11:56.579
deep dive into nostalgia and all those old characters and blah

1539
01:11:56.579 --> 01:11:56.819
blah.

1540
01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:00.119
It actually gave them a chance to be completely original, didn't

1541
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:00.239
it?

1542
01:12:00.300 --> 01:12:02.399
And that was really refreshing.

1543
01:12:02.399 --> 01:12:07.859
And basically rebuild Star Trek, post, what would it be?

1544
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:08.520
Post-nemesis?

1545
01:12:08.579 --> 01:12:10.020
Or post Picard now, wouldn't it be?

1546
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:10.619
Yeah.

1547
01:12:10.739 --> 01:12:16.979
Well, see, what I think is that setting discovery in the 23rd

1548
01:12:16.979 --> 01:12:21.359
century around about the time of original trek was an attempt to

1549
01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:26.460
recreate an original trek for an entirely new generation of

1550
01:12:26.460 --> 01:12:27.000
people.

1551
01:12:27.060 --> 01:12:31.500
So Star Trek is central to the Star Trek experience, the original

1552
01:12:31.500 --> 01:12:32.100
series.

1553
01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:37.619
They didn't want to set it in the 24th century where there was a

1554
01:12:37.619 --> 01:12:40.020
lot of standing around talking and everything was a bit more

1555
01:12:40.020 --> 01:12:40.619
stately.

1556
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:43.260
And they wanted to set it somewhere familiar where the recent

1557
01:12:43.260 --> 01:12:45.119
films had been set and so on.

1558
01:12:45.180 --> 01:12:50.100
And the Klingon war gave them an interesting story to tell which

1559
01:12:50.100 --> 01:12:53.819
resonated with politics and had things to say about, you know

1560
01:12:53.819 --> 01:12:55.079
federation ideals.

1561
01:12:55.140 --> 01:13:00.180
Those interminable scenes sound in the high world.

1562
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:01.020
Oh my God.

1563
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:02.220
I actually like that.

1564
01:13:02.279 --> 01:13:03.840
I'm sure you did, yeah.

1565
01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:07.739
Their job is to make the Klingons scary and alien after they'd

1566
01:13:07.739 --> 01:13:11.520
been just your friendly uncle who was into ZZ top or something.

1567
01:13:11.579 --> 01:13:15.779
You know, like it made them frightening and they were properly

1568
01:13:15.779 --> 01:13:16.319
frightening.

1569
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:18.539
You're trying to say that Gower's eyes weren't frightening.

1570
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:20.279
They were from...

1571
01:13:20.340 --> 01:13:23.279
But they're a bit too cuddly, you know, and a bit too familiar.

1572
01:13:23.340 --> 01:13:25.319
And if you're going to bring them back, you want to make them as

1573
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:28.319
scary as they are to the Federation.

1574
01:13:28.439 --> 01:13:30.600
Excuse me, I can't remember any of those Klingon characters from

1575
01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:31.560
Discovery Series one.

1576
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:33.000
I'll never forget Gowron.

1577
01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:34.979
As long as I, that's true.

1578
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:40.439
But we did have many years of Gaur on, and they were decades ago.

1579
01:13:40.500 --> 01:13:44.579
We've sat with Gala for most of our adult lives.

1580
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:46.800
Oh, no, girl.

1581
01:13:46.859 --> 01:13:49.680
But that's that's the other thing too.

1582
01:13:49.739 --> 01:13:55.319
The thing that absolutely thrills me is that we have new Star Trek

1583
01:13:55.319 --> 01:13:59.699
and it's trying to do new things and it's virtually on every

1584
01:13:59.699 --> 01:14:00.060
week.

1585
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:04.439
And it's been so long since Star Trek was...

1586
01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:07.619
I do think there's a potential to oversaturate this, though.

1587
01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:11.220
Like, if they just keep, if they just keep, and like, Picard's

1588
01:14:11.220 --> 01:14:14.520
coming to an end after three, and I think that's probably a good

1589
01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:14.699
thing.

1590
01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:16.739
Like some of these shows should be finite.

1591
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:20.760
Discovery maybe should run to 7 or something like that. you know

1592
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:23.039
and then, but if they, you know, keep trying new things, things

1593
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:23.399
like that.

1594
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:28.199
But like we said, it is like a selection box with really different

1595
01:14:28.199 --> 01:14:32.340
flavours and you can absolutely dip into those different flavours

1596
01:14:32.340 --> 01:14:33.659
which is really fantastic.

1597
01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:37.920
But another thing as well, I really love about series 3 is it

1598
01:14:37.920 --> 01:14:42.359
takes all of those things that we recognise from, like, for me

1599
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:46.680
from 90s trek, and it absolutely reinterprets all of it.

1600
01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:49.140
The Federation, all those matters, trill.

1601
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:50.579
Do we see Vulcan?

1602
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:51.659
Navar.

1603
01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:52.560
Is that what it's called?

1604
01:14:52.619 --> 01:14:53.340
Mount Navarre.

1605
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:55.500
Oh, yeah, yeah. because the Romulans are there too.

1606
01:14:55.560 --> 01:15:00.659
So it's giving it's giving a fascinating new slant on like tired

1607
01:15:00.659 --> 01:15:02.039
basically tired cliches.

1608
01:15:02.100 --> 01:15:03.180
And that's good.

1609
01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:10.500
Yeah, and it's centring the idea of what the Federation is about

1610
01:15:10.500 --> 01:15:18.899
and that it's about connection and it's timely, I think, uh, in a

1611
01:15:18.899 --> 01:15:22.439
world that's becoming increasingly fractured and isolated and

1612
01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:25.979
suspicious, particularly in America, that is becoming increasingly

1613
01:15:25.979 --> 01:15:29.640
suspicious of, you know, international cooperation and stuff like

1614
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:29.880
that.

1615
01:15:29.939 --> 01:15:34.680
I think it's, you know, in Britain, like you've Brexited.

1616
01:15:34.739 --> 01:15:38.399
And so that, you have to bring me up, honestly.

1617
01:15:38.460 --> 01:15:40.619
But do you know what I mean?

1618
01:15:41.100 --> 01:15:46.319
It's, you know, it's a world where that message is timely and

1619
01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:47.100
should be heard.

1620
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:50.340
And I think that more than any other iteration of track.

1621
01:15:50.460 --> 01:15:56.399
This has a very, very conscious political purpose and a real

1622
01:15:56.399 --> 01:16:01.800
proper understanding of what that whole ideal is.

1623
01:16:01.979 --> 01:16:04.500
I don't want to call it the Roddenbury ideal, but that utopian

1624
01:16:04.500 --> 01:16:06.600
socialist, internationalist ideal.

1625
01:16:06.659 --> 01:16:08.399
It's so interesting.

1626
01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:13.079
Isn't it that we've done in the Palm Moonlight, followed by, what's

1627
01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:13.739
this episode called?

1628
01:16:13.859 --> 01:16:16.500
Uh, that hope is you part two?

1629
01:16:16.619 --> 01:16:23.100
Because I think our personal like favourite iterations of Trek are

1630
01:16:23.100 --> 01:16:27.300
there and they're doing very different things and yours is

1631
01:16:27.300 --> 01:16:28.500
completely leaving it.

1632
01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:30.420
I'm not even going to call it the Roddenberry Idol, but I don't

1633
01:16:30.420 --> 01:16:30.899
think that's there.

1634
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:35.760
The Star Trek ideal of, you know, like unification working

1635
01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:38.279
together, a better future.

1636
01:16:38.340 --> 01:16:41.760
Whereas in the Power Moonlight, basically saying, war is shit.

1637
01:16:41.819 --> 01:16:43.439
We've got to do terrible.

1638
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:44.039
We can't do that.

1639
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:46.619
In order to, you know, in order to get through it.

1640
01:16:46.619 --> 01:16:49.979
And it's given both of us the opportunities to kind of set our

1641
01:16:49.979 --> 01:16:54.899
stall and say this is what we love personally about Star Trek.

1642
01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:03.420
All right, so it's time for us to choose the Star Trek episode

1643
01:17:03.420 --> 01:17:07.560
we're going to watch next time, and it's your turn, Joe. What

1644
01:17:07.560 --> 01:17:09.600
series are we choosing from?

1645
01:17:09.659 --> 01:17:15.479
Okay, so I have just pulled up the randomiser and I have selected

1646
01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:17.819
4 shows at complete random.

1647
01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:20.640
So yes, that's right.

1648
01:17:20.699 --> 01:17:22.619
The original series.

1649
01:17:22.680 --> 01:17:24.300
I'm talking about that.

1650
01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:26.760
The next generation, because why not?

1651
01:17:26.819 --> 01:17:27.300
Yeah.

1652
01:17:27.300 --> 01:17:31.979
Voyager, because we love slagging things off, and lower decks

1653
01:17:31.979 --> 01:17:33.180
because we've only done one of those.

1654
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:35.399
Okay, that sounds brilliant.

1655
01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:36.840
I'm up for any one of those.

1656
01:17:36.899 --> 01:17:38.100
Are you ready for this?

1657
01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:38.579
good.

1658
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:44.220
So just let me drop the URL, which is untitled Star Trek project

1659
01:17:43.619 --> 01:17:47.819
com slash randomiser. for all your random Star Trek needs.

1660
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:52.439
You never need to go to your shelves and just stare for an hour

1661
01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:54.060
sell spread. or whatever.

1662
01:17:54.180 --> 01:17:56.279
Yeah, can I just tell you something?

1663
01:17:56.340 --> 01:17:59.460
Like I heard the other day on random trek.

1664
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:01.020
I was listening to some old episodes.

1665
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:03.180
It's not as random as you might think, you know.

1666
01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:07.859
If you think we're not random, they select a series sometimes.

1667
01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:10.319
Yeah, I know, honestly.

1668
01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:12.119
Anyways.

1669
01:18:12.180 --> 01:18:13.140
Okay here we go.

1670
01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:13.739
Okay.

1671
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:18.539
So our 1st random episode is Star Trek Voyager, series five

1672
01:18:18.539 --> 01:18:20.819
episode 25 Warhead.

1673
01:18:21.960 --> 01:18:24.180
Is it about a warhead?

1674
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:26.279
I think I remember that. about a bomb.

1675
01:18:26.340 --> 01:18:30.600
That takes on the personality of the doctor, and it's one of those

1676
01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:32.520
rare doctor episodes is really terrible.

1677
01:18:33.300 --> 01:18:35.880
So we don't want to watch that, do we?

1678
01:18:35.939 --> 01:18:38.579
We don't want to see Robert Picardo being awful.

1679
01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:41.220
No, he wouldn't be helpful anyway.

1680
01:18:41.279 --> 01:18:42.720
It's now selected.

1681
01:18:42.779 --> 01:18:46.859
Episode 6, series 13, virtuoso, which is another one of those very

1682
01:18:46.859 --> 01:18:48.539
rare doctor episodes that's terrible.

1683
01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:50.640
It hates Robert.

1684
01:18:50.699 --> 01:18:51.300
You remember that today?

1685
01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:52.319
Where's the opera planet?

1686
01:18:52.380 --> 01:18:53.819
He goes and teats things opera.

1687
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:54.539
Oh, come on.

1688
01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:57.420
And they're all like And he becomes famous and he's horrible to

1689
01:18:57.420 --> 01:18:57.659
everyone.

1690
01:18:57.720 --> 01:18:59.819
They're all little people with squeaky voices.

1691
01:18:59.880 --> 01:19:01.859
It's really terrible.

1692
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:04.079
Okay, let's go.

1693
01:19:04.140 --> 01:19:04.560
Okay.

1694
01:19:04.859 --> 01:19:06.659
Oh my word.

1695
01:19:06.720 --> 01:19:08.460
It's the visitor.

1696
01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:13.439
It's Star Trek Next Generation, series two, episode nine, the

1697
01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:14.520
measure of a man.

1698
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:16.199
Oh, we have to do that.

1699
01:19:16.260 --> 01:19:17.460
It's good.

1700
01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:18.420
We can't roll again.

1701
01:19:18.479 --> 01:19:20.399
Can't we do another classic?

1702
01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:21.960
So we're going to run out of classics.

1703
01:19:22.020 --> 01:19:23.460
We haven't done any...

1704
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.920
Oh, no, there's 830 episodes.

1705
01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:26.460
We'll be fine.

1706
01:19:26.579 --> 01:19:29.100
Well, I'm so sorry, but I'll press it again.

1707
01:19:29.159 --> 01:19:31.260
Oh, I'm sorry.

1708
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:32.159
Oh, we got another.

1709
01:19:32.220 --> 01:19:36.180
Okay, this is probably the ultimate next generation classic.

1710
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:37.380
Okay.

1711
01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:40.500
It's Siri says Episodes 25 and 26.

1712
01:19:40.859 --> 01:19:42.060
All good things.

1713
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:44.699
Let's do that.

1714
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:45.420
What do you reckon?

1715
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:46.500
Yeah, let's do.

1716
01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:47.220
Come on, yeah.

1717
01:19:47.220 --> 01:19:49.439
I didn't see that. haven't seen that for years.

1718
01:19:49.500 --> 01:19:49.859
No.

1719
01:19:49.859 --> 01:19:51.539
Yeah, me either.

1720
01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:53.100
Wow, that's really good.

1721
01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:53.819
Let's do that.

1722
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:56.340
A finale is what a series finale.

1723
01:19:56.460 --> 01:19:58.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1724
01:19:58.319 --> 01:19:58.739
That's awesome.

1725
01:19:58.800 --> 01:19:59.699
Brilliant.

1726
01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:12.239
I'm there for it You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek

1727
01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:14.760
Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1728
01:20:14.819 --> 01:20:18.659
You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you

1729
01:20:18.659 --> 01:20:21.539
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1730
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:25.439
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1731
01:20:25.439 --> 01:20:27.180
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1732
01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:31.800
This episode was recorded on the 22nd of February 2022 and

1733
01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:33.840
released on the 25th of February.

1734
01:20:33.899 --> 01:20:37.739
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, for

1735
01:20:37.739 --> 01:20:38.579
good things.