WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:09:14

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So today we are back in the distant past, it's 2017, October 2017, and we are about to watch the 3rd episode of Star Trek Discovery, which is called context is for Kings.

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And you might remember that the 1st 2 episodes get screened one immediately after the other, one on CBS and one on CBS for access.

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So this is kind of the 1st regular episode.

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And it's the 1st time we say Discovery.

6
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We're inclined not to like it.

7
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Oh, we're at this point because they've just killed off cousin Michelle.

8
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So we're not in a good mood with Discovery at this point.

9
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No, although I have to say, I think I've said this before, that I was pretty much sold from just about the 1st moment, the bit where Michael goes off in a sort of EV pod and clambers over a Klingon asteroid thing, because it just looked so different from what I expected.

10
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And, and, you know, this is sort of 21st century Star Trek, but enterprise finishes maybe 12 years before this airs.

11
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It's not as big a gap as it seemed at the time.

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What you mean, it looks different.

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It's because I've jettisoned all the greys from...

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But it just looks magnificent.

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It looks so interesting.

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It's so different.

17
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You know, it's great having a kind of, it's not a complete, um, a completely new production team because we still have Brian Fuller who wrote like 20 episodes of Voyager.

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Some pre-dismal scripts.

19
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A couple that we've covered already.

20
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Yeah, yeah.

21
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Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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He wrote Coarse Oblivion, remember?

23
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His record is not stainless.

24
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No, but he did do.

25
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I mean, we did the Raven, which is pretty good.

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He did Living Witness.

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He did Bride of Chaotica.

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He did Barge of the Dead.

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This is so good.

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Yeah, yeah, that might be the best script he ever did, actually.

31
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Yeah, I've got a theory.

32
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Oh, God, did you think of Buffy when I said that?

33
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I've got a theory.

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That the reason why so many people struggled is the reason why you didn't.

35
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And that is, I think they were pre-programmed to accept a version of Star Trek.

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There was a lot of people pontificating in rooms, gray rooms.

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And, you know, the odd moral dilemma, the odd, the sort of phase of battle and things like that.

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But nothing that you would call visually striking or if so, rarely so.

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And then they came in, obviously, special effects have come on in a decade and they're going to throw as many pretty and amazing images at you as possible.

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And I think just for a lot of people, this just wasn't Star Trek as they recognised it.

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And I think Fandom with Discovery went 2 ways.

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It was those people that just abandoned it because their preference was 90s trek and those that embraced it and went on the journey with it.

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And, you know, it's a hell of a journey.

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But my big surprise coming back and watching this is I think this is my favourite iteration of discovery.

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And I think it's messy in all kinds of ways, and I will talk about it in this episode.

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There's so much that they don't get right.

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But what appeals to me is that this is quite edgy and it isn't comfortable viewing at times.

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And again, I think that's probably what pushed a lot of people away because they, I loved, you know, what is it, a fine ship, a ship shape crew, space problems, you know, that sort of thing.

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We're not doing any of that.

50
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The ship comes along here in the 3rd episode.

51
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The crew is not assembled into any kind of family unit at all.

52
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It's so dysfunctional.

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Everyone's kind of ugly at this point in all sorts of various ways, ugly or not quite formed in the way that they would be in the 2nd year.

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Yeah.

55
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Yeah.

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No, I agree.

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And I think, you know, because people as well look to Star Trek for an optimistic vision of the future.

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Not me.

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But people do, and I do.

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And that here is simply located in Michael Burnham's character.

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And she makes it clear.

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Just her.

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And so there's there's a reference to Alice in Wonderland here, which comes up later, but she's fallen down the rabbit hole into a world that is weird and off-putting.

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The incredible thing about Alice in Wonderland is that the fantasy world it creates is actually not very nice.

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It's nasty and weird and unpleasant.

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And that's where we are here.

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And it's the result of the war.

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It's going to a place that Deep Space 9 goes.

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What happens to us when we're at war?

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And what this does, I think, um, because the sequel to Alice in Wonderland is through the Looking Glass, we have this happen again at the end of the series, a few episodes from the end of the series when we actually go into the Mirror Universe, and it's like discovery only much worse, like much scarier.

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And so we...

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Yeah, yeah.

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Oh, look, it's it's really too...

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Do you think Emperor Georgio, you know, and a whole ream of men around are fabulous.

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That's right But I think what's happening, and I think I may have said this before on the podcast.

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I think that what we're getting here is a kind of mirror of American politics after 911 and the Iraq War and Afghanistan and that kind of thing.

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And so America has been at war. you know, ever since then when discovery comes out.

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And then we get Trump.

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And so we get this sort of weird escalation where the founding values and like that's a sort of contentious term, but where Starfleet's values at least have kind of been abandoned and they're really ostentatiously not here.

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And the way that this season works and you have to get through all kind of 15 episodes of the season to get to the end, the way this season works is, of course, those are the values that prevail.

81
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We're given the chance to the war by destroying the Klingon home world and we don't do that because that's not what we would have done it.

82
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I would have pressed it.

83
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No, but we do something much better instead.

84
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No, we'll go, yes, we're Starfleet.

85
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We're a lovely family.

86
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Oh, vomit.

87
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Yeah.

88
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And then we do that all next year as well.

89
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It's so much less interesting.

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I think next year does a whole bunch of things that seem like an apology tour for this year.

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No, watching this now.

92
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It's clear.

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That's what next year is Because they go out of their way and obviously we've done that episode that you and I battled over, the penultimate episode of series 2 with the, you say not, but I say protracted sequences of goodbye between this family that's breaking up for the last time.

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Um, God, it's unbearable, I find, all of that stuff in this, and poor uh, Saniqua.

95
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Balling her eyes out every single episode for about 10 minutes and it's like, no.

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What happened in series one?

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Look at that.

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A ship of secrets.

99
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That's what I kept messaging you.

100
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I love it.

101
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We land on Discovery and immediately there's a crew there.

102
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No one's sort of treating her nicely.

103
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I mean, the security officer, we will get to her.

104
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But clearly Lawker's got loads of things up his sleeve and he's dissected bodies in his quarters and all sorts and it's like, this is so much more interesting than just doing a forgive me, a wank job to TOS, which is what we get in the 2nd series.

105
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But I have to say that that it's Star Trek, and you tune in for Star Trek, and I think that that's the original series.

106
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No, it doesn't have to be the original series, but I think it does have to be Star Trek.

107
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And there are other darker visions of the future and stuff like that.

108
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I think that this is interesting in that it does comment on contemporary politics and it kind of tells us about what people are like when kind of push comes to shave, but it is still that kind of utopian vision that characterises Star Trek.

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It just takes us a while to kind of get there.

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And I like that.

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I just think this insidiousness is delicious at this point.

112
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And and and it is a peak, I think, into a different version of this show. and I think that's to show Brian Fuller wanted to make because he's out by the middle of this series.

113
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So we don't actually know how this series would have panned out.

114
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And I think you think it would have panned out in the way it is.

115
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I'm not sure Fuller was going into the Mirror Universe, you know.

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No, no, I think it has to end with the values of the Federation being reestablished at the end.

117
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I wonder sometimes why I'm a Star Trek fan, you know.

118
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I don't buy into any of this.

119
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Yeah, but like I think that that's a hugely important thing.

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Like, it's not the tech.

121
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It's not the techno babble, it's not the spaceships, it's not the latex.

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It is that vision, I think.

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Did you think no?

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Index.

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Did you think like, you know, all those fans that were affronted by all the visual sumptuousness and dynamic action that was in the 1st 2 episodes?

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By the time you got to sort of 2 thirds into this episode?

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Michael Burnham is crawling through Jeffrey's tubes and up and down ladders and they must have been going, oh, thank God.

128
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Yeah, we're hacking. 90s trek again.

129
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And doing references to Alice in Wonderland, the sort of thing Picard would say, you know, references to literature.

130
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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And but that's an interesting character thing and it is commenting on the rest of the episode.

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Like it is very clearly, you know, Michael's fallen down the rabbit hole and she's now in this strange mirror universe.

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I mean, you know... to see when we go back to these early episodes of how the respective series is form?

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Because I think TOS hits it out of the gate.

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TNG takes 2 years to get it right.

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DS9, I think, starts really strongly and then takes a year to sort of find its groove with its characters and its crew.

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Voyager, I think, absolutely nails it in its 1st episode and then forgets entirely all the things it learned there.

139
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Enterprise takes about 4 years to get it right and they're just about getting it right towards the end with the characters and the storytelling.

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Whereas discovery, man, you just can't put a pin in where they get it right because it evolves so much and the crew changes from not just season to season.

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Sometimes within the seasons, we lose regulars, we gain regulars.

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Like, you know, the most consistent characters in discovery are the 2 on the bridge that last all 4 years.

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Detmar and Owo. 2 most consistent characters.

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They actually kind of disappear midway through series.

145
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There's just not another trek show like it though, but I really found it interesting coming back to this and seeing these characters unformed because Tilly is nowhere near what she becomes.

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I think by the end of the 1st season, Saru isn't is still a good performance, but he's still he's not quite the Saru I recognise from sort of series 2 onwards.

147
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Stamitz was the only one who came in.

148
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He was a total cunt from his 1st line and I was like, yep, there he is.

149
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But I think Stammets undergoes a thing where he just seems to be obnoxious, but there is also that incredible kind of enthusiasm for the science and the resentment of the way that Discovery's been kind of commandeered and taken off him by Lawker and turned into a kind of laboratory for war stuff.

150
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You know, remember while we watched that doctor episode recently, interstellar song contest, you know, and I'll said to you about how, oh, wow.

151
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Yes.

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And I said to you, oh, those 2 awful, lovey, dovey, hideous gays in it.

153
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I just can't bear them.

154
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Stabitz is like my antidote to that.

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A total bastard from the off, you know, goes around insulting everybody, but he's super smart.

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He's in a wonderful relationship with a man that has sort of bumps that you can absolutely buy into.

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I've had bumps like that in my relationships.

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I think he's a great character.

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And I think he's the one here that works from the off of all of them.

160
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Yeah, he gets so comprehensively owned by law cream that one scene, though.

161
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And as for Lawker, I know, you said to me in the chat, but like we were never going to keep Isaacs for more than like, you know, two-thirds of a season.

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What a shame because he is such an asset to this show.

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We know that this was the setup for a one season story and that Fuller's original plan had been to do a completely different story every season.

164
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And Discovery does land on that.

165
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But what they decide is that we can't invest this money in the, the sets and models and things. and assemble a group of actors and then throw them away at the end of 12 months and do it again.

166
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And I think that that's probably a reasonable call.

167
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I would have loved to have seen that though.

168
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Just to see how that would have looked. go into different periods, you know.

169
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I mean, there's been 5 different shows.

170
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We technically have, if you just watch all the 1st series.

171
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

172
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And, of course, Discovery does do the thing.

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You know, the thing that makes it different from strange new worlds isn't just kind of the tone and atmosphere, but also the fact that the season is the main unit of storytelling as opposed to the episode.

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And both of those are good, interesting things to do.

175
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It means, though, that, you know, dipping into discovery is like dipping into Picard or um, it's not always as easy as it could be.

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These I found really easy to dip back into, though.

177
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One, because it is the 1st superiance of the 1st superi. introduced to all the crew for the 1st time or some of them anyway.

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But because as well, there wasn't really a huge amount of plot here.

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It was a protracted series of character scenes with an action sequence in the middle.

180
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And I said to you, that's not a problem for me because that's sort of 90s trek, isn't it?

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Lots of too harder scenes, but they're good to hander scenes, I think, or the best ones are really great.

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I think too, they're more than just, you know, we're finding out about the characters.

183
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Like the scenes are all doing something as well.

184
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It's not just, here's what this person is like.

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There's a change in the relationship between, say, Tilly and Michael.

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There's a change in the relationship between Burnham and Locker.

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Obviously, Burnham's decision to join the crew at the end is kind of interesting and takes us a while to get to.

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We learn a little bit. very funny that, wasn't it?

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Do you remember when Saru's sitting there?

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watching the ship zap off through the window in the mess hall and then no suspense at all.

191
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The next scene, she's there, walking down the corridor towards the mess hole.

192
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I was like, okay, we're not even going to pretend that she's not on the ship.

193
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No, but remember that that's a very clever scene because he says that she's dangerous and as the ship leaves, his ganglia or whatever are coming out the back of his neck because he senses danger.

194
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So in some sense, he's aware that she's not on the shuttle that she stays.

195
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How what those are?

196
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Ganglia.

197
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

198
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Very disturbing, yeah.

199
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If Frank started emerging from your head while we were talking.

200
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Yeah, that probably was.

201
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Pulse, frankly.

202
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And of course, we already had the relationship between Saru and Michael in the opening 2 parter.

203
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And so when we see it this time, It's gone somewhere quite different.

204
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And I think that Saru, if you were to watch him in episodes one and two, you would say, yes, that's him. he is fully formed, but here a character thing has happened. and he's grown to distrust. why, you know, because she has been, she's the fool guy for everything that went wrong in one or two.

205
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And so, you know, he's understandably cross. you know, Giorgio is dead after all.

206
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:09.180
But I'm just so used to him being empathetic towards everybody, kind of regardless of what they have done.

207
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.299
So I was like, okay, so they're not quite there with him yet.

208
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.700
But I can see potential with every character.

209
00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:19.200
And I know that the potential is mostly realised with all of them.

210
00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:21.779
So yeah, the building blocks are here.

211
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.339
I just love how messy it is.

212
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:32.279
I just came away feeling a bit dirty going, you know, oh, this is Star Trek for me, you know, it's not perfect, but yeah, it's a bit edchy.

213
00:17:32.339 --> 00:17:41.160
The other thing too is what you forget is how mysterious it all was to us, like who is law car?

214
00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:42.660
Where is he from?

215
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:43.200
Yeah, wonderful.

216
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.519
Who is Ash?

217
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:49.740
Like, Shahzad Latif gets credited in the opening credits of this week's episode.

218
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.640
He's not in it and he's not vogue in it either.

219
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:59.279
So he's neither of his characters are in it, but we didn't know that he was folk.

220
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:01.079
He'll turn up in episode five.

221
00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:05.460
I got a little bit too Game of Thrones shocky though, didn't they?

222
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.640
They got a bit carried away at times, you know, when they killed off Colbar.

223
00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:10.079
That was a bad idea.

224
00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:11.460
Oh boy, why did we do that?

225
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:12.660
I mean, it's a great shock moment.

226
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.819
It is a great moment, but it is.

227
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:19.799
And you know, and it ruined 2 characters in one because it's like, well, how do we go back from that with Ash?

228
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:21.480
and also we've lost gold.

229
00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:22.619
But like, what are you doing?

230
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.339
But it is Star Trek for streaming, right?

231
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.259
And so it's the 1st time they're doing this.

232
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:29.940
They're doing long form storytelling.

233
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:37.500
They're doing long form mysteries, you know, and I think for the most part, they pull it off.

234
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.640
It is a weirdly messy is the right word, I think.

235
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.500
It's a weirdly messy year, this.

236
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:49.680
But I think probably as interesting for me as discovery ever got.

237
00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:51.900
So yeah, I was quite impressed.

238
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.960
This is my favourite or 2nd favourite season.

239
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:57.119
I think series 4 is magnificent.

240
00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:02.579
Um, but very different and this, you know, I just fell in love with this immediately.

241
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:09.960
And I still enjoy going back to the ship and seeing all of those people and seeing the look of it.

242
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:17.759
And, you know, strangely worlds is a little bit more polished and a little bit kind of more sure of itself.

243
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.799
And the mess is one little bit more Star Trek as well, isn't it?

244
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:23.460
Oh, yeah.

245
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

246
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:24.660
Yeah.

247
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.940
Although it can be very violent.

248
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:27.539
Yeah, yeah.

249
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:28.859
This does become Star Trek.

250
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:29.880
It does.

251
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:36.900
But it never becomes quite a Star Trek show in quite the same way as NextGen or Strange New World or Voyager.

252
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:41.099
I think anything will ever be more Star Trek than Strange New Worlds, you know.

253
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:46.619
Kirk, Tyke, Spock, Nurse Chapel, space problems.

254
00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:49.859
Jesus Christ The enterprise, yeah.

255
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.660
Yeah, it's pretty great.

256
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.359
It's literally called Strange New Worlds.

257
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:55.019
Yeah.

258
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:58.680
But today, we're down in the sewers with Discovery.

259
00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:00.720
Yeah, it was pretty exciting.

260
00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:01.500
Let's do it.

261
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:03.420
Should we go and get mucky together?

262
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:04.680
think we should.

263
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:05.279
Okay.

264
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:08.759
It's a shame though, you know, because security officer. so annoying.

265
00:20:08.819 --> 00:20:13.019
I was hoping this was the one where she got eaten, but it was next week.

266
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.980
I would say...

267
00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:17.700
No.

268
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:19.680
Oh, there's a reason, though, right?

269
00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:20.819
It's not a great character.

270
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.680
Anyway, all right.

271
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:23.220
Okay.

272
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:29.940
All right, here goes. 543, two, one, and we're off.

273
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.039
Okay, so this is previously on.

274
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:37.559
Oh, there's your show.

275
00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:39.119
Oh, yeah, gosh.

276
00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:44.279
I'm not going about hair quite a lot, but later on, Sanequa's hair is just so fabulous.

277
00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:47.220
Why have they made her look so mousey in this 1st series?

278
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.339
Yeah, because like she's sort of Vulcan.

279
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:55.980
Like, she's got her hair all sort of ironed back on board the Shinjou and...

280
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:59.579
Do you not remember all those gorgeous dreadlocks she had in the last series?

281
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:00.059
Gorgeous.

282
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.140
Yeah, with their braids.

283
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.579
They were braids, not dreadlocks.

284
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.480
They're beautiful.

285
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:04.740
I mean, she just looked magnificent.

286
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:05.700
But look at these ships.

287
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:09.660
Just look at how imagic that bears Takuvma. awesome.

288
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.660
My God, it's like watching the menu more fabulous.

289
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:13.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

290
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:14.220
With money.

291
00:21:14.579 --> 00:21:16.500
With action.

292
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.539
Now, that's not too bad now, come along.

293
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.640
We've done some of those space battles.

294
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:23.339
They look a bit cartoony to be fair.

295
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.140
Oh, look at that harsh light there.

296
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.019
Remember the drumhead room and look at that room?

297
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:29.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

298
00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.140
We've come along a bit, aren't we?

299
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:38.339
Well, just the lighting and stuff is just so much more interesting and so much less even than stuff. insane in the shuttlecraft, right?

300
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:50.039
This is literally a scene from Blake 7, which is the, you know, the anti-Star Trek, where they go off at the start of Blake 7 in a prison ship because they've all been accused of various things by the evil Federation.

301
00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:51.960
And that's this scene.

302
00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:57.599
I never thought we would see this with the main regular crew member of a Star Trek show.

303
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:04.440
Okay, so these people are credited in the closing credits as stone, cold, and psycho.

304
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.779
Psycho, you say?

305
00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:07.500
Psycho.

306
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.759
That's what the woman is called.

307
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.799
His mum didn't like him very much.

308
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:12.660
No, no, that's what the woman's called.

309
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:18.599
So the Spanish guy with the shaved head, the who's a kickboxer and stuff.

310
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:20.460
He lives in Canada. recognise him.

311
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:21.599
Has he done some acting elsewhere?

312
00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:22.680
Yeah, he has.

313
00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:42.119
And then the guy in the middle was in series 5 of Discovery as a Breen character, um, called Locke, um, who, uh, like he's properly brain, you know, like he's got sort of proper makeup and all of that and they're liquid.

314
00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:46.740
We get to see the brain in series 5 of Discovery and they manage to do it without ruining them.

315
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:47.519
It's pretty great.

316
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:58.680
I just think this is astonishing that we're opening the 3rd episode of a new Star Trek show with the central character in handcuffs on the way to a penal colony.

317
00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:03.059
Like, they would never do anything like that before or again.

318
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.200
No.

319
00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:06.299
And this.

320
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.160
So, you know, she goes out.

321
00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:11.460
She goes out to deal with the infestation and stuff.

322
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:13.079
Michael knows what's going on.

323
00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:18.480
And then just the incredible kind of random shot of her just out the window.

324
00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:24.240
Like, It's pretty, it's pretty bleak, isn't it?

325
00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:25.079
Oh my god, yeah.

326
00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:28.619
I mean, she just flies out the window like she's just out the window.

327
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:29.700
It's just like, fuck.

328
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.079
Oh, does she go?

329
00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:32.099
Yeah, yeah.

330
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.440
I mean, I loved in a minute, right?

331
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:37.380
They do this sort of, I say, point it in the camera.

332
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.460
It's a special effect shot up at discovery as it's coming over the shuttle grass.

333
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:42.359
It's hero shot.

334
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:44.400
First, look at discovery.

335
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:50.880
Oh, to be fair, they did used to shoot the Enterprise D like that from below coming out of the camera.

336
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.140
Not all that often.

337
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.559
Like that, isn't it beautiful with the light coming behind it and things?

338
00:23:55.619 --> 00:24:02.519
It just looks stunning with the tractor beam is literally taking us away because it's coming straight out the camera.

339
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.960
That ship is so weird.

340
00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:09.420
Like, it's definitely a Star Trek ship.

341
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:19.079
You wouldn't mistake it for anything else, but just the geometry of it's all so weird. and the fact that it's sort of burnished bronze rather than gray.

342
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:20.339
You love it.

343
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.420
It's exposed backside.

344
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:25.019
And the little hole when the shield opens up just to let the Charlotte.

345
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:28.440
I mean, they do that on Enterprise.

346
00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:31.740
It's like Star Trek, the motion picture, now we're going round and round.

347
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:32.220
Lovely.

348
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.980
A bit faster than the most...

349
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:35.880
Let's be honest, yeah.

350
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:39.299
Somewhere, sorry, a bit more detailed as well.

351
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:41.519
Oh, this lovely music.

352
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:45.539
Yeah, isn't it?

353
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.740
This is such a strange new world is still my favourite, though, of all of them.

354
00:24:49.859 --> 00:24:50.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

355
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:55.079
Just because it has like, you know, that, da, da, da, da.

356
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.119
That bit, yeah, it gets me very excited.

357
00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.880
But look at this beautiful art as well.

358
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:04.740
Yeah, yeah, I don't know why, like, quite why we do it like this.

359
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:15.900
It's kind of like the idea is that we're redesigning Star Trek for the 21st century and so it's all blueprints and like design ideas.

360
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:16.920
Do you know what I mean?

361
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:21.960
As if we're kind of aware that this is a TV show and we're having to design the future again?

362
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:29.640
It's an odd, it's an odd thing to do because it doesn't seem to represent anything about the actual show itself.

363
00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:38.819
I just imagine like long, long behind the scenes conversations about how this had to look, the tone of it, everything, you know?

364
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:44.160
Yeah, because we just redoing it, like completely redoing it in a way that hadn't happened.

365
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:51.900
We had, you know, how many seasons, 18 seasons of Star Trek with no real proper reevaluation of how it should look.

366
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:58.200
What fascinates me about discovery, my own reaction to it, because I really hated this when it came out.

367
00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:05.099
I just loathed the 1st 2 par and I was really struggling right the way through that 1st series.

368
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:14.339
And I'm wondering if it's doing untitled Star Trek Project and watching so much other trick and realising how terrible all that is compared to this.

369
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.839
I've been able to completely reevaluate my opinion on this 1st series.

370
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.619
And no, no, I think I've put my finger on the sort of Star Trek like now.

371
00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:28.920
And it's this, but it took me, you know, you do change your mind on things, but you go on a journey with these things.

372
00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:30.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

373
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:31.140
Yeah.

374
00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:33.720
What happened to the rest of them then?

375
00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:35.579
She obviously gets absorbed into the crew.

376
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.619
Do they just head off back to the painal Connelly again?

377
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

378
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.680
Oh, we never see Psycho again.

379
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:43.859
Psycho and Cold and Stone all go off.

380
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:46.440
Here she is from Battlestar Galactica.

381
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:46.920
What's her name?

382
00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:47.940
Security chief.

383
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.619
She's Landry.

384
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.180
Landry.

385
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:51.720
Landry.

386
00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:53.099
Dreadful character.

387
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:54.180
Right?

388
00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:56.880
Because this is shocking.

389
00:26:56.940 --> 00:26:59.700
Like, I think it's quite shocking because she says something.

390
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.799
She calls them garbage, and then later on in dialogue, she refers to them as animals as well.

391
00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:08.519
And like that's really wrong footing.

392
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:10.259
That's even before Lorker comes along.

393
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.359
Something is wrong on this ship.

394
00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:24.660
Um, and I think it becomes clear during the season that it's it's law car, is promoting people like this and encouraging this kind of behaviour.

395
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:33.059
And I think, you know, this, the title of this episode context is for kings is really telling as well, and we'll talk about it when we get there.

396
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:51.359
I mean, if you think she's one note in this episode and she is Landry, I mean, in the next one, they literally make her such a bully throughout the 2nd episode, um, just so that moment where she's eaten, she's like, punching the air going, yes, you know, she's gone.

397
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.259
Look at this.

398
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:57.119
So this Detman was on board the on board the Shenzhou, right?

399
00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.799
So this is our seeing Detma.

400
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:12.599
That's her meeting Detma. and seeing the injuries that Detma suffered in the Battle of the binary stars, like that brace on her head and the shaved head and stuff, which is her look for the rest of the show, that's done to her in that.

401
00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:17.339
And so having that moment, which that's all she gets to do this episode.

402
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.680
And obviously she becomes an important part of the show.

403
00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:23.460
The 1st 2 years, I think, you know, she had to guess a line in series three.

404
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.039
Yeah, there isn't really that much.

405
00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:26.819
Very strange.

406
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.119
I mean, she was very loyal to the show given how much they gave her to do.

407
00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:37.680
We have done this before. so her walking in and everyone looking at her with absolute disgust.

408
00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:44.579
That's exactly what happens to Tom Paris in Caretaker when he's walking Voyager and everyone's giving him filthy looks.

409
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.519
And I like that about caretaker as well.

410
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:50.579
I like that about Tom Paris that he had that checkered history.

411
00:28:50.640 --> 00:29:01.140
So, so we have the 1st reference to Enterprise here in the dialogue because Landry...

412
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:18.779
Landry identifies that as a Vulcan martial art, and then it gets named by Michael, and that's the Vulcan martial art that to poll uses in Enterprise series 2, episode 6 marauders.

413
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.539
So it's our 1st enterprise reference.

414
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.839
Can I just to bring us back to Landry for a 2nd?

415
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:26.460
Because there isn't much to say about.

416
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:27.480
I just want to make this point.

417
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:44.400
The actress who plays her, play Tory in Battle Star Galactica, an extraordinary character that in the last season goes on an incredible journey from, you know, likeable age to the president, to the biggest bitch on that show as well.

418
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:52.619
And fuck, like, it's a bit of a shame because she's a really good actress and this is a thankless role, I think.

419
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.319
I think this is just deliberate overcasting.

420
00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:56.220
Do you know what it means?

421
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:59.759
Should they get someone in who has done a big role in another genre thing?

422
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:01.980
Okay, Isaac, she's a regular.

423
00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:03.720
I was going, well, I'm going to watch that now.

424
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:08.160
Because I remember when I heard Isaacs was in this, I was like, yeah, I'm on board.

425
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.200
He's really great.

426
00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:11.940
He's so good.

427
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:13.380
He's so sexy as well.

428
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.460
Oh my god.

429
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:16.619
He gets very sweaty.

430
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:18.599
The more evil he is.

431
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:19.740
The hotter he is.

432
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.640
When he's stamping that guy's head in that episode.

433
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:30.119
No, when he was surrounded by all the corpses at the end of this episode, I was like, was it hot in here, you know?

434
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:33.059
Oh, Jimmy Law a couple leaves.

435
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:35.460
He has a treble on his desk. that open.

436
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:36.779
He does, yeah, at the end.

437
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:37.440
Yeah.

438
00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:40.799
I mean, we're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy, are we?

439
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:44.700
There's a gone skeleton in that room as well.

440
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.400
Yeah, they try to do it in Picard.

441
00:30:47.460 --> 00:30:53.759
It was a good moment in episode 2 of series 2 of Picardo, all the skeletons of people, but this was more shocking because it came first.

442
00:30:53.819 --> 00:31:00.240
Well exactly. that's right You can't dissect a trible from the best comedy episode of TOS.

443
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:04.380
What are you thinking, Brian Fuller?

444
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.680
Well, they made it for me. some more, Brian.

445
00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:08.099
Come on.

446
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.799
I'm just perverse when it comes to Star Trek.

447
00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:14.700
Yeah, a bit.

448
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:25.500
So the, I mean, the other thing too, which is kind of, which is cool is that he's just lying to her and she knows that he is.

449
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.599
And so this is the captain of the ship and he's a prick already.

450
00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:33.180
He's like upsetting.

451
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.640
And look at her reaction to him as well.

452
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:37.740
Like she just doesn't get it.

453
00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:41.279
Yeah, she's like, this is not my world, all right?

454
00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:53.579
And I realised I did bad things and you think I'm desperate for some kind of approval and career that I'll do any lengths of what you want to meet your evil aims, but I am not that person.

455
00:31:53.640 --> 00:32:04.019
But also, I think too, like there is something about her wanting to punish herself that she deserves this for the mutiny.

456
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:05.579
And remember...

457
00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:06.420
We should get over that then.

458
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:13.500
Because eventually she just embraces her role as, you know, centre of the entire universe later on in the show.

459
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.660
Well, main character in the show, right?

460
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:16.740
And then the captain.

461
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:37.920
Um, so, so, I don't know, like, it doesn't last very long, I think, and it is basically partly the story of her kind of, of, um, moving beyond that, um, but she, she thinks she should be punished and is just prepared to, you know, go and continue her life sentence.

462
00:32:37.980 --> 00:32:40.259
It's another odd approach, though, right?

463
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:49.140
Because, like, I've seen Sanequa in series 3, episode one, where she's high as a kayat laughing a red off and just the most charismatic presence on the screen.

464
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.519
I mean, what's this?

465
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:52.619
She barely looks up in this episode.

466
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.720
I think she's really compelling though.

467
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:56.579
We're very, very good.

468
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.500
But it's an odd approach, right?

469
00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:59.400
To start your show.

470
00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:02.160
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

471
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:19.619
But I guess, you know, seeing her at her lowest and then watching the inevitable kind of rise, you know, where she, you know, like, the show, I think they overcompensate a bit, though, they make her a bit too, too important by the end of the show.

472
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:25.799
But like I just think that that's not a complaint for some reason that we make about Kirk and Picard.

473
00:33:25.859 --> 00:33:26.880
Do you know what I mean?

474
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:31.619
Like, even though they are also the main characters and the most...

475
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:39.900
Yeah, they're the pricks of their respective shows as well. let's be honest So here is Mary for the 1st time is Tilly.

476
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.519
Always someone smiling.

477
00:33:41.579 --> 00:33:42.119
Hurrah.

478
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.240
You know what I love about her?

479
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.940
And I don't, I don't want this to come out.

480
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.619
I love how she is a little weightier than you would expect in Star Trek.

481
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.259
She's got spots on her face that they've covered up with Foundation.

482
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:56.579
She's a redhead.

483
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.119
She is not your typical Star Trek babe, okay?

484
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:05.640
But she's sexy as hell because she smiles and she's got energy.

485
00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:20.219
There is just an energy about her that you, and she's not formed here either because I said to you, she comes across as someone with ADHD in this scene. she just talking 10 to the dozen about a 1000000 things and they're making her as eccentric as she can possibly be.

486
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:21.659
That's the idea right?

487
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:28.380
Like she snores and she has allergies and um, you know, she says something about having special needs and stuff.

488
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:35.579
But it's only episode 7 that we see her at the party wanting to come off with a song.

489
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:37.199
She much more form there, isn't she?

490
00:34:37.260 --> 00:34:37.800
Yeah, yeah.

491
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:40.800
But, you know, eventually she becomes Captain Tilly.

492
00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:45.000
Scourge of the 7 seas or whatever it is, you know, Tilly, I think.

493
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:48.599
For fuck's sake. wonderful.

494
00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:52.980
And I think come like series 3 series 4 when she's in it.

495
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.679
She's just one of the best characters.

496
00:34:55.739 --> 00:35:03.360
Do you know when I realised they'd figured her out perfectly was that scene where she sings with Stamets in the 2nd series.

497
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:06.360
They sing, is it the Beatles or something like that?

498
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:13.019
I can't remember He's trying to calm her down so she can achieve something and they just sing a Beatles medley together.

499
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:23.219
It's gorgeous Well, you know, there was the episode where she sort of says farewell in the middle of series four, which we actually rolled and decided not to do.

500
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:29.699
But we've come a long way from that purple blood in the air in Star Trek 6, haven't we?

501
00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:32.159
liquid hanging in the air.

502
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:39.179
Actually, even archer at a moment like that in the shower when all the droplets sort of froze in the air.

503
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:41.039
But it all looked a bit like quicksilver.

504
00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:42.239
That actually looked like water.

505
00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:49.199
We decide not to really go with that, but apparently that's something that happens whenever we jump and we don't know what a black alert is.

506
00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:51.239
We've never heard of it as Star Trek.

507
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:55.860
We can't away from it usually, you know, it does happen for the rest of the time, but we just, yeah, we can't wait for those scenes.

508
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:57.360
Yeah, they don't they don't dwell on it.

509
00:35:57.420 --> 00:36:01.019
It's like Janeway fiddling with her badge, you know, it happens every week.

510
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.500
Oh, look at all the crow looking at her.

511
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:10.199
Jesus Christ, I thought Starfleet was about acceptance and loving people.

512
00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:14.820
This is what a war does to you, you know, it makes you very unpleasant.

513
00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:17.039
I mean, this scene is amazing.

514
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.619
The way that Saru walks.

515
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.519
You know, just hit the, like his gait is so strange.

516
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:25.500
So camp, isn't he?

517
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:27.539
He's so much taller than her.

518
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.099
Like, he's twice.

519
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:32.820
I've not seen a walk like that since Wayoon, you know?

520
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:35.159
But on Mimsy Walk.

521
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:44.280
When he's not got something in his hands, you remember that his hands move side to side behind his back as he walks, like he has a very strange walk.

522
00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:47.340
It's such a great makeup job as well.

523
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:52.440
Like, it's not just, you know, I think the makeup's nothing without the actor and the body language.

524
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:59.280
Oh, we've seen great makeup jobs where people have stomped about looking really awkward before, you know?

525
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:01.440
Remember those Ferengis in the last outpost?

526
00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:07.619
Yeah, but this is Doug Jones, you know, who's made a career of doing the prosthetics and stuff like that.

527
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:19.380
I still shudder, you know, no matter how nice he is as Saru, because I can, in my mind's eye, I can still see the gentleman gliding past the window, grinning whilst Christoph Beck's strings are in my ear.

528
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:20.519
Oh my god.

529
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.860
They're like so scary.

530
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.320
Has he done lots of horrors then?

531
00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:26.880
I think so, yeah, yeah.

532
00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:30.000
And he's also the fish that they have sex with in shape of water.

533
00:37:30.059 --> 00:37:32.940
I like this scene so much.

534
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:35.039
Like, I like this scene so much.

535
00:37:35.099 --> 00:37:36.840
It's about Giorgio's death.

536
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:41.820
And like, it's just like, she never thought she would ever see him again.

537
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:43.739
You know, she just never thought she would ever see him again.

538
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.599
And here they are.

539
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:52.019
And like they're properly serious and he's not inclined to forgive her easily, which I like, you know.

540
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.139
We've come a long way from Tasha's death, haven't we?

541
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:59.099
Yeah, we're doing the funeral at the end, and then we never mention it again until 3 seasons.

542
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.559
Oh, I suppose Chad Cia that informed the whole season.

543
00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:02.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

544
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:03.300
Yeah.

545
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.159
But I like that.

546
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:12.239
I like the we feel her absence. that's why it's so satisfying when she comes back as, you know, evil.

547
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:14.219
Evil, space lesbian.

548
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:17.219
Bisexual.

549
00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:19.980
Wow, yes, yeah.

550
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:23.579
They're all, they're all, you know, they're all into both sexes in the mirror universe.

551
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:28.980
But, um, easily the best thing to ever come out of discovery is in your show.

552
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:29.639
Oh, good.

553
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:30.780
Yeah, just one.

554
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:34.380
And that much needed dose of edginess in the later years.

555
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:38.579
Yeah Now what's happening here?

556
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.719
Oh, this is where we are reporting now.

557
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:44.280
A wonderful scene this.

558
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:47.340
Yeah, see, all these 2 handers are great, aren't they?

559
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:48.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

560
00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:51.059
But this stammets, this is firstly Tilly though.

561
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:53.039
As well.

562
00:38:53.099 --> 00:39:03.119
Do you remember, like, like, she tries to, um, seat herself next to Tilly's station until he lies and says, oh, no, we have assigned stations, you can't be here.

563
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:05.880
And then she apologises for it later.

564
00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:08.460
I think that Tilly is nice.

565
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:11.760
Yeah, but everyone else is horrible.

566
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:12.300
Awful.

567
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:13.139
Oh, I see.

568
00:39:13.139 --> 00:39:15.239
Just you find a... that was me in there.

569
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:16.739
Even if I'm killed, 8000 people.

570
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:17.760
I'd say, oh, I love.

571
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:18.719
Get over yourself.

572
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:20.340
You only work at that console, you know.

573
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.300
Yeah, yeah.

574
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.119
She goes, what's this all about?

575
00:39:24.179 --> 00:39:25.500
This stacious chamber here.

576
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.739
What technology are you working on?

577
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:30.239
I told you it's a ship of secrets.

578
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:32.340
Yeah, it's great, isn't it?

579
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:33.480
What are they hiding?

580
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:41.159
So it's a, so it's a tardigrade, is that what makes the ship spin eventually and go off into...

581
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:42.780
It doesn't survive long, does it?

582
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:43.980
It's only in like 2 episodes.

583
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.460
Because it's another thing too.

584
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:54.000
Now they're torturing an animal in order to make the spore drive work and they have to decide not to do that.

585
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:58.860
Okay, I will say, all right, I do like this dark underbelly of Star Trek.

586
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.179
That is my limit, though.

587
00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:00.780
Alright.

588
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:02.699
Torturing animals is off the cast.

589
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:03.360
No.

590
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:05.340
But I mean, that's what they appear to be doing.

591
00:40:05.340 --> 00:40:13.559
And it is a sort of primitive, like it's a big scary monster, as we saw, but the reason that like brings it on board. my celial spores.

592
00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:15.179
I don't know, it's magic.

593
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:23.880
And eventually, obviously, um, Stammets takes that role on when they get when they let the Tardigrade go.

594
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:29.219
It's worth mentioning that, you know, because, you know me, tender people goes in one era and out the other.

595
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.800
But I remember the words mycelial spores.

596
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:34.199
Yeah, it's very strange.

597
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:35.519
That's the other thing too.

598
00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:39.059
This is like not a thing that we've had in Star Trek before.

599
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:48.719
So the mushrooms, like literally spores cause this strange... interesting scene, isn't it?

600
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:51.179
when you see all the spores coming from the mushrooms.

601
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.199
It's not in this one, is it?

602
00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:53.219
It's later on.

603
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:54.840
Oh, is this one?

604
00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:56.519
Yeah, because she goes...

605
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:57.599
I watched her this morning.

606
00:40:57.659 --> 00:40:58.619
Yeah, yeah.

607
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:00.059
So we we see that.

608
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:14.039
And of course, when Lorker shows her the drive in the final scene, or, you know, towards the end of the episode, she's in that fish tank full of sort of glowing spores.

609
00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:19.739
Like, in no way, yeah, if I was on this ship, in no way would I want to be Culpa's friend.

610
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:20.940
He just too nice, yeah.

611
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.179
Whereas I would be desperate to be Stammets's friend.

612
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:29.519
He would know all the goss on everyone, you know. so horrible.

613
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:33.840
Like that's not where we land with him, though.

614
00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:35.460
And I think like he...

615
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.780
He still has an age stories.

616
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:38.820
He can be unpleasant.

617
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:42.840
But I mean, what's really happening here is that he resents Lorker.

618
00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:44.159
Like, he resents what's happened.

619
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:44.880
And we get it.

620
00:41:44.940 --> 00:42:12.840
We get it here because this is his partner, his research partner, and he later says, when the war started, because of you, Michael Burnham, when the war started, we were split up and we were put on board these ships in order to aid the war effort, you know, um, and so having, you know, what he's really, what he really cares about is being perverted by Lawker, and that's why he's insolent, like openly insolent to law.

621
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:13.679
I like it.

622
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:26.159
And I like an actor that is willing to come in and be this unlikeable from the off because I don't think you get it an awful lot in American shows or even if they're written as unlikeable.

623
00:42:26.219 --> 00:42:28.079
They try and put in some charm.

624
00:42:28.139 --> 00:42:28.920
So it's...

625
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:33.659
No, he just comes in. horrible to her in this scene.

626
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.420
Walks out, like you said, he blames her for the war later on.

627
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:41.579
There's really, like at this point, there's no great redeeming moment for him in the series.

628
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.099
And it did take me a long time to warm to him.

629
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:46.800
But then I just realised I like hanging out with bastards.

630
00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:48.059
So now I love it.

631
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:53.880
I mean, I think that he's, he's, he's, um, this is so funny.

632
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:56.460
Tilly dribbles in her sleep.

633
00:42:56.460 --> 00:42:57.659
Do you see the dribble on the pillow?

634
00:42:57.719 --> 00:42:59.940
snores, she snores as well.

635
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.099
That's so...

636
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:03.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

637
00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:07.980
You know, do you not remember seeing all the people in 90s track asleep decorously?

638
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:09.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

639
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.420
Uncomfortable beds that they sleep in.

640
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.659
That's how she gets through the biometric.

641
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.320
Look at all these lovely spores.

642
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:20.579
Yeah, yeah.

643
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:23.219
Yeah, it's very strange, isn't it?

644
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.320
I love the subtitles.

645
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:26.820
She gasps softly.

646
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:28.619
Water trickles.

647
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:36.780
No, no, but it's doing something that I've seen quite a bit in science fiction movies and that is, you know, the forest in the middle of the ship.

648
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.280
Yeah, yeah. gorgeous.

649
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:39.420
Yeah.

650
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:41.400
Oh, here we go.

651
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:42.300
Captain Norca.

652
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.239
Gosh, discovery looks beautiful.

653
00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:54.300
Can I can I say, though, I was disappointed that Lawker turned out to be like an evil alternative universe version?

654
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.340
Just because I was so interested in his character.

655
00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:02.820
And to me, that was sort of the laziest exploration as to why he was a bad boy.

656
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.880
I just like the idea of a really bad captain.

657
00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:17.340
Yeah, but I think that the, I think, though, that the Mirror Universe is kind of like our end point, like where we're heading towards in this.

658
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.300
And so that's the role it plays kind of thematically in the in the story.

659
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:23.639
And so he has to be from there, I think.

660
00:44:23.699 --> 00:44:31.739
But like your show proved that you could have somebody from that universe as a regular in the show and it worked like gangbusters.

661
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:32.699
I don't know.

662
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:33.780
I just don't want to lose him.

663
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:38.639
No, she's a comedy character mostly, though, isn't she?

664
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.099
Like, that's kind of that's what they do.

665
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:42.840
I love it round the table.

666
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:45.119
She's like, oh, are you done?

667
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:48.780
But I don't think you could do that with Lawker.

668
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:52.019
And I think that you want Lorca soundly killed at the end of it.

669
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:53.519
Like that's actually quite cathartic.

670
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:59.280
But you have like, you know, Garak's a semi-regular and he's emerged.

671
00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:00.300
He's a murderer.

672
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.219
I just think I think they could have found a way.

673
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.940
If he wanted the work, you know, but he doesn't need the work.

674
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.139
He don't need Star Trek.

675
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.239
No, but he's horrible.

676
00:45:09.300 --> 00:45:15.719
Like he's like got a real personality disorder and he's a real kind of fascist asshole.

677
00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:21.480
Like he's a bad person. say, Ducat is puffies and roses, you know?

678
00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:24.300
I mean, he's funny and genial and everyone loves him and stuff.

679
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:25.079
Do you know what I mean?

680
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:30.659
Like he's, he's, you know, he doesn't, like all of his stuff, his backstory and stuff.

681
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:34.079
We see him do bad things, but not really.

682
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:42.719
You certainly, you know, you can't imagine a scene where Garrick just stomps someone's head and kills them, which is...

683
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:43.860
Yeah, but you would never do that.

684
00:45:43.980 --> 00:45:50.639
It was that great episode where he's got to unleash the quantum torpedoes on the founder planet.

685
00:45:50.699 --> 00:45:57.059
Don't tell me you, Mr. Worf, you'd object to a little genocide in the side, in the name of honour.

686
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.480
But like all of that stuff is.

687
00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:01.260
Do you know what I mean?

688
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:13.800
Like, and part of the problem with Garak, is that he, you know, and that's one of the things that they address in Empoc Noor, is that he becomes a little bit too much part of the family, I think, and that's irresistible because just of the child...

689
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:15.480
Well, the show does as well, doesn't she, really?

690
00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:16.320
Yeah, well, that's right.

691
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:20.099
She becomes a comedy character in the same way, but I don't think you can do that with law, calm.

692
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:24.119
She's just there to punish the balloon of sentiment all the time.

693
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:26.519
It's so, oh my god, I breathe a sigh of relief.

694
00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:27.420
Every line she gets.

695
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:28.440
So good.

696
00:46:29.219 --> 00:46:36.119
So now we literally are doing a 90s Shrek episode, so we've established that there's a ship we need to go to, right?

697
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:37.920
And in a minute, we walk around.

698
00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:39.960
It's a dark ship, tumic terrible's happened.

699
00:46:40.019 --> 00:46:40.860
There corpses everywhere.

700
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:45.719
We've done this in TNG a couple of times, you know, Voyager, stuff like that. gruesomely, isn't this?

701
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.119
We go running around Jeffrey's tubes and up ladders.

702
00:46:48.179 --> 00:46:52.739
So, you know, I do think there is a nod here to the trek you sort of expect.

703
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:54.360
And he's still Star Trek.

704
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:55.739
It still has to be Star Trek.

705
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:57.780
I mean, this bit is about 10 minutes long.

706
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:09.360
So one thing that I want to mention is that the shuttle pilot is the same actor who plays the communications officer later.

707
00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:14.400
So in about episode five, um, and so let's just say it's the same person.

708
00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:19.920
It's Bryce, who is the communications officer and is on the bridge for quite a long period of time.

709
00:47:19.980 --> 00:47:26.219
He becomes unavailable during the show's run and he tends to alternate with Christopher, who has the same role.

710
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.619
People have days off, you know?

711
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:30.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

712
00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:30.360
Yeah.

713
00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:37.019
That's one of the things that I like about this too, is that because she's not the captain.

714
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:40.860
She doesn't have a relationship with the bridge crew.

715
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:45.000
And so they're not the people who are important in her world because she's the main character here.

716
00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:46.019
So refreshing.

717
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.360
We don't get to know the bridge crew.

718
00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:53.519
And that's, you know, they walk away from that a little bit in series too.

719
00:47:53.579 --> 00:47:54.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

720
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.199
But I do like that.

721
00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:57.840
I mean, I like the bridge crew as well.

722
00:47:57.900 --> 00:47:59.760
And I like the crew, they sort of settle on.

723
00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:02.940
But I don't know, this is this is more interesting.

724
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.440
Yeah, I think so.

725
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:08.159
It's a more interesting look at a side of Star Trek we don't usually get to see.

726
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:12.480
Yeah, it's we don't ever really get to know any of them very well.

727
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.639
They are kind of scenery.

728
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:16.739
I mean, in in a real way.

729
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:20.579
I mean, they do start throwing bones to Detma and Owo.

730
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.980
They do get moments in those later seasons, which I think the actors must have been like, oh, thank God, you know.

731
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:29.880
How long do I have to see it pushing buttons before I get a line?

732
00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:31.800
they're both great as well.

733
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:33.360
I mean they are both really good.

734
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:37.860
But, you know, Bryce and Reese and stuff.

735
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.139
We see them all the time but we don't really get to know them.

736
00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:42.599
I mean, this is wonderful.

737
00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:43.079
Look at this.

738
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:45.719
You never would have done this in TNG.

739
00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:50.760
You constantly see that ship getting closer and closer throughout the window as we're going to.

740
00:48:50.820 --> 00:48:51.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

741
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:52.619
It looks so good.

742
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:54.179
It's out of focus in the background.

743
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:55.199
It just looks stunning.

744
00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:57.119
I think even for the time.

745
00:48:57.179 --> 00:48:58.679
This is ambitious.

746
00:48:58.739 --> 00:49:00.059
You know, yeah.

747
00:49:00.059 --> 00:49:01.679
I just remember I can't think of much.

748
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:04.679
I mean, had we had we'd had Battlestarcle Acts, couldn't we?

749
00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:07.320
I mean, special effects in that were pretty extraordinary as well.

750
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:14.460
But yeah, but I think this is more detailed and clearer and staff.

751
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:21.119
And I think the combination of those effects with live action is pretty amazing as well.

752
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:28.380
Like, I do like the music in discovery.

753
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:32.639
I do think it is, obviously, it's a step up from 90s trek all that wallpaper.

754
00:49:32.699 --> 00:49:39.360
Um, I don't know, but then when I think of something like Bear Acreary's work, About a Star, it's just not a patch on that app.

755
00:49:39.420 --> 00:49:44.159
No, or like Mark Snow in the X-Files, you know, they're kind of alternative.

756
00:49:44.219 --> 00:49:46.019
Christoph Beck in Buffy, you know.

757
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:48.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah. movie scorer.

758
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:49.559
I forgot.

759
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:52.559
I mean, I tend to listen to...

760
00:49:52.619 --> 00:49:53.699
Yeah.

761
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:58.199
We thought we saw the worst in the Gorn episode of Strange New Worlds.

762
00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:59.699
This is a load of mashed up bodies.

763
00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:03.480
Yeah, so something has happened to the geometry of the ship.

764
00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:13.860
They talk about there being spiral kind of patterns on the outside of the ship and all of these people have been kind of twisted and torn apart. wonderful.

765
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:15.179
Now, we did try and do this.

766
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.880
You laughed a lot when they did it in Voyager.

767
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:23.039
Do you remember that in Scorpion, where they had all the bulk heads and things, all as a big sculpture?

768
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.139
And you went, oh, that looks so terrible.

769
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.820
But now they can do it realistically now, but they cut away quick.

770
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:33.239
So you could see the horror, like there, look, all those horrible bloody limbs.

771
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:35.880
But and all that tomato sauce everywhere.

772
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:39.840
But they cut away very fast. that's probably a good move.

773
00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:44.519
Yeah, yeah. don't think Star Trek wants to dwell on any of that sort of staff.

774
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.940
But and like this is very standard, isn't it?

775
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:53.280
But just it's atmospheric because, you know, again...

776
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.199
They're loying it like a movie, you know?

777
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:57.119
It has the style of a movie.

778
00:50:57.179 --> 00:50:59.159
And you don't have to see everything.

779
00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:02.579
Like it's okay for the characters to be indistinct. you know what I mean?

780
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.380
Everyone's hair and makeup.

781
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.420
This happens on Buffy in particular, I think.

782
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:13.860
But on Star Trek, the Next Generation, everyone spends so much time and makeup that we're going to fucking see them the entire time.

783
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:15.000
Do you know what I mean?

784
00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:17.699
And so having flashing lights in the background.

785
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:20.820
You know, the camera's not, there's, it's steady cam.

786
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:27.599
Things are out of focus, you know, like, I think they do get there in noise track with the atmosphere, occasionally.

787
00:51:27.659 --> 00:51:34.139
Like, do you remember the episode, the ship with the upside down Gemadar ship and it's all dark and it's all spotlit throughout the entire episodes?

788
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:42.420
And that zombie one of enterprise where they're on the ship and that's pitch black apart from strobe lighting coming in and things like that.

789
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:43.920
So they can do it.

790
00:51:43.980 --> 00:51:47.340
They just do it from the off here and they do it all the way through.

791
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:48.119
Yeah.

792
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:48.780
Yeah.

793
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:51.179
And so this is their only Klingons as well.

794
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:56.280
So Klingons got on board the ship. afterwards.

795
00:51:56.340 --> 00:52:02.699
So they're not all kind of, I think they say braided. was the term that they used to describe the other bodies.

796
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:09.239
They've just been torn to pieces by the Tartar. anything like that since the last time I went to the butchers, you know?

797
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:12.239
and took a look. took a look at his pork chops.

798
00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:13.139
Oh my word.

799
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:15.179
Did you see it?

800
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.139
was like shredded.

801
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:18.840
Yeah, yeah But look at Tilly with the gun.

802
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:20.820
She's absolutely fucking selling it.

803
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:27.719
She was so mousy and sort of things, but she just says, come out of the shadows, you know, like she absolutely kind of owns that.

804
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:32.159
And that lighting, there, that strobe light, and that Klingon looks amazing.

805
00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:34.559
Yeah, I think it's not a Klingon.

806
00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:34.920
What is it?

807
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:37.500
Oh, no, he's just been eaten by the Tardigrade.

808
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:39.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

809
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:41.219
I mean, I look at this thing.

810
00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:43.980
It's so great, isn't it?

811
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:45.960
Hulking great blobby monster.

812
00:52:46.019 --> 00:52:47.340
Yeah.

813
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:49.260
Running around the corridor.

814
00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:50.099
It's great.

815
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:55.079
And they run because they've got long corridors, so they can actually run.

816
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:58.980
You and me would be fucking spreading right away.

817
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:06.059
Yeah, I know we're out to seek new wealth and new civilisations, but if that thing was coming after us, it would run.

818
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:10.619
It runs, you know, it's got that sort of weird bear like gate.

819
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:11.340
It's amazing.

820
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:12.420
It's so good.

821
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:19.019
That camera shot through 2 holes there with stabbits inside the 2nd ship. amazing.

822
00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:19.920
Yeah.

823
00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:20.940
Yeah.

824
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:22.920
Although I did say to you in a message.

825
00:53:22.980 --> 00:53:24.960
Apart from this one sequence.

826
00:53:25.019 --> 00:53:36.480
Oh, the camera work was blissfully stately in this episode. barely moved at all. very gracefully went around the rooms, you know, and I could see people actually acting.

827
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:37.199
It was wonderful.

828
00:53:37.260 --> 00:53:39.780
Oh, look, and that's his friend.

829
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:41.219
That's his friend.

830
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:42.719
He's all been braided.

831
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:44.820
Prated.

832
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.440
Yeah, that right. word, isn't it?

833
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:52.500
If you've got to do horror, find the right adjective, you know.

834
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:53.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

835
00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:55.260
It's pretty good, isn't it?

836
00:53:55.980 --> 00:54:07.019
So they've used the tartar grade because they're doing much better at black alert, like they're travelling much faster and further than discovery is.

837
00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:09.420
But this goes wrong.

838
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:13.739
Um, And so they're taking take back.

839
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:14.280
Yeah.

840
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:30.300
So beyond sort of establishing the, I'll keep saying it, a ship of secrets, I can't say it very often, beyond establishing the crew, I think the other level this is working on is, yeah, we can do a traditional Star Trek episode and execute the fuck out of it.

841
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:31.199
Yeah, yeah.

842
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:31.619
Yeah.

843
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:32.280
Yeah.

844
00:54:32.340 --> 00:54:50.639
I think that that's broadly the remit of Star Trek, Strange New Worlds, is doing the kind of the Trek staples, but doing them incredibly well and, you know, with modern sensibilities and modern storytelling and, and, I thought they're, they're sort of...

845
00:54:50.639 --> 00:55:00.119
And was like, what if um, what if we created a Star Trek anthology show where you like every single character and you don't care who gets the spotlight this week?

846
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:05.280
Unlike Voyager, whereas he is... playing a game of poker. to do that.

847
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:07.920
So this is not very hard.

848
00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:20.400
So this is her doing the Alice in Wonderland thing and they talk about it in on memory alpha, but what they don't talk about is that this is her describing her experience this episode.

849
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:21.960
Do you know what I mean?

850
00:55:22.019 --> 00:55:24.480
Like, like, she was on the Shenzhou.

851
00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:29.039
It was the season finale of Shenzhou, because she'd been on the ship for 7 years.

852
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:30.119
Do you know what I mean?

853
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:45.119
It was like the big two part finale and it all goes horribly wrong because war breaks out and the captain gets killed and now she's not in a traditional Star Trek show at all and she's being chased by a horrific monster down at Jeffrey's tube and stuff.

854
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.280
It's like Alice in Wonderland.

855
00:55:47.340 --> 00:55:51.480
Wow, well, let's do Alice in Wonderland more often then, please, and start.

856
00:55:51.539 --> 00:55:58.320
That's why but that's why we do through the looking glass at the end of the at the end of the season, you know, because that's the sequel.

857
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:00.780
We have done that before as well.

858
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.719
There's literally an episode called Through Looking Glass, yeah.

859
00:56:03.780 --> 00:56:07.559
In fact, doesn't Kira say at the end of crossover?

860
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:08.219
Where have you been?

861
00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:09.840
Through the looking glass, commander.

862
00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:12.300
No one goes, how the fuck do you know about that?

863
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:14.039
Like, you're a pajoran.

864
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:15.239
Yeah, that's right.

865
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:23.579
Well, so there's a character bit too. of course, because we know that she is the adopted daughter of Sarek.

866
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:30.900
But here she mentions Amanda and her brother and that Amanda used to read them that.

867
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:36.659
Uh, and and it also is just, incidentally, there's Arium as well.

868
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.260
You were always a good officer until you weren't.

869
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:41.340
Until you weren't.

870
00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:42.539
It's good, isn't it?

871
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:43.079
Ouch.

872
00:56:43.139 --> 00:56:46.800
It was almost touching then until you thrust the blade into her heart.

873
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:49.739
But, well, he's not he's not blowing smoke.

874
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:50.820
He's not glazing it.

875
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:51.539
Do you know what I mean?

876
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:52.980
Like he's just telling the truth.

877
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:55.980
It's like delivering a shit sandwich assessment.

878
00:56:56.039 --> 00:57:00.059
He went, yes, you were always an asset to Starfleet until you weren't.

879
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:03.239
But look at her response.

880
00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:05.639
Like, it's so, she's so beautiful.

881
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:09.360
I know, but I just want to, I want to see her rise up from this now.

882
00:57:09.420 --> 00:57:11.099
Yeah, yeah, of course she does.

883
00:57:11.159 --> 00:57:11.579
You will.

884
00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:21.059
But just watching her, like just giving her the opportunity to act and you know what she's thinking, she just does such a good job of her.

885
00:57:21.539 --> 00:57:26.519
I just love that this very serious scene has what a triple on the side of it.

886
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:28.739
And he's purring the whole time.

887
00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:31.260
It's her the whole time.

888
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:32.579
It's great. isn't it?

889
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:34.380
It's still Star Trek.

890
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:36.840
And Chilly's vivisected, of course.

891
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:39.420
Right?

892
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:40.500
So good.

893
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:46.199
They should have gone further and had it all sort of struck out washing.

894
00:57:46.260 --> 00:57:47.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

895
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:51.000
Oh, like the psychopath.

896
00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:53.579
Oh, yeah. do you remember?

897
00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:57.420
Do you remember them all piling up on it about that shit window?

898
00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:59.219
And what?

899
00:57:59.219 --> 00:58:05.219
You're developing some sort of spore-based biological weapon.

900
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.139
Okay, we're back in Star Trek again.

901
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:09.000
Yeah, but it's not true, is it?

902
00:58:09.059 --> 00:58:11.039
Like, and that's what gets her.

903
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:18.480
She is interested in the science in the way that Stamets is and she knows that it's not a weapon.

904
00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:20.760
So she's okay with that.

905
00:58:20.820 --> 00:58:23.219
And now she gets to be the part of something.

906
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:35.579
And there's this weird scene because you have Saru who understands what she did and disapproves of it and he, she, he's honest with her.

907
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:42.059
And now you have Lorke here lying to her and saying that he approves of what she did.

908
00:58:42.119 --> 00:59:01.920
Um, and he says, and it's the, it's the, um, It's the, the title, you know, one of these rare ones where the title is a quote from a character, he says, um, universal laws are for lackeys and context is for kings.

909
00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:12.059
So ordinary people just have to obey simple moral laws, but people like you and me don't have to do that.

910
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.559
And he's a fascist.

911
00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:16.440
You know, he's a horrific person.

912
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:18.599
Oh, I think he's wonderful.

913
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:19.860
I mean this is great.

914
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:21.360
This is basically you and me.

915
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:23.159
Star Trek fancy.

916
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:31.500
She's going, I uphold the laws of the Federation and the United Federation of Planets, so he's going, you never mind about that. far more interesting my way.

917
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:33.239
Come to the dark side.

918
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:37.739
Yeah, great scene, a wonderful and well acted as well.

919
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:39.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

920
00:59:40.019 --> 00:59:44.280
I just really like as well. how she just susses it all out.

921
00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:46.320
She's like, I know I know why I'm here.

922
00:59:46.380 --> 00:59:47.340
I'm mutine here.

923
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:48.900
I'm ex-Starfleet.

924
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:52.079
I'm very useful to you and you think I'm needy.

925
00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:53.039
You think I need this?

926
00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:54.900
Yeah.

927
00:59:55.139 --> 01:00:00.420
I won't be the person you want me to be because I uphold those values.

928
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:04.679
Yeah, yeah, the federation values are all here.

929
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:07.559
They're embodied in her.

930
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:16.679
So this is an incredible scene because, of course, this is just let me show you the universe and let me show you what you're doing and that sells her.

931
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:21.539
And now please watch how she's matted into these locations, all right?

932
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:25.679
And compare it to Chevok on Vulcan last week and persistence of vision.

933
01:00:25.739 --> 01:00:31.199
I mean, you still, it's still a very obvious special effect, but it is very beautifully done.

934
01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:32.820
Yeah, the details.

935
01:00:32.820 --> 01:00:34.199
I mean, a decade, you know.

936
01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:36.179
But look at the fairy dust.

937
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:40.739
You know, like we're seeing Lorca through this cloud of spores.

938
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:45.239
I'm not sure I'd want to stand there in a cloud of spores.

939
01:00:45.300 --> 01:00:46.139
I did worry about that.

940
01:00:46.199 --> 01:00:47.400
I think I'd be sneezing.

941
01:00:47.460 --> 01:00:48.780
Do you get hay fever?

942
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:54.900
I do, and particularly from fungus. and look, the cloud's getting thicker.

943
01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.300
Yeah, yeah.

944
01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:00.360
And so it doesn't work properly yet.

945
01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:07.260
And so we retrieved the technology from the glen and then we're going to retrieve the tardigrade.

946
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:16.079
And remember they had to go on board the Glen to get the technology because it was in a shielded spot, but the tardigrades escaped so they can just beam it straight off, which is what we're about to see.

947
01:01:16.139 --> 01:01:20.400
So then they sort of, um, the tardigrade and the spores and all of that.

948
01:01:20.460 --> 01:01:23.579
And this is why from this after this episode, is that right?

949
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:28.559
It can do the weird spinning sauce, I think, and beam off into various parts of the universe. wherever.

950
01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:32.699
He just said it was just in 100s of kilometres, the jumps so far.

951
01:01:32.820 --> 01:01:38.340
I remember your reaction at the end of 2 when it's like, we will never talk about this technology again.

952
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.480
Please put it in that secret draw and the Space Pentagon.

953
01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:44.639
I will never mention it.

954
01:01:44.699 --> 01:01:45.840
That's right.

955
01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:49.860
Please, like, as if they would give this up.

956
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:50.519
Come on.

957
01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:51.179
Yeah.

958
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:51.840
Yeah.

959
01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:59.159
But like we said, that is the one of the flaws of discovery is that, you know, they want to do amazing technology.

960
01:01:59.219 --> 01:02:01.500
They also want to set it pre-TOS.

961
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:02.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

962
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:13.139
So the places that we see, um, I think that the last one, so that's Andoria, but just that, like, it's so amazing.

963
01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:18.360
But I think the last one is from Devil in the Dark.

964
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.360
Ah, don't you think?

965
01:02:21.420 --> 01:02:23.039
The minding planet.

966
01:02:23.099 --> 01:02:24.059
Yeah, yeah.

967
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:25.920
I think that's a modern take on that.

968
01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:29.400
It strikes me as something this era of track would do.

969
01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:30.059
Of course they would.

970
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:31.440
Christmas not here, is he?

971
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:33.179
Was he already involved?

972
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:35.099
Oh, okay, then definitely.

973
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:36.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

974
01:02:36.420 --> 01:02:38.340
Yeah, I don't know where that comes from.

975
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:42.000
But I mean, we had the Enterprise reference in dialogue pretty early on.

976
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:44.400
Fuck Nathan, his eyes.

977
01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:45.780
Isaac's eyes.

978
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:52.679
I mean, I mean, I was basically writing poetry to you in the thread. his eyes were like piercingly beautiful.

979
01:02:52.739 --> 01:02:55.860
But there's like a sadness in them as well.

980
01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:00.900
I mean, that I think your eyes, as an actor, is a real weapon that you can use.

981
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:04.079
And Isaac, man, he's got the best weapons there.

982
01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:05.760
Yeah, it looks amazing.

983
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:08.340
He's got beautiful eyes as well.

984
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:09.900
I mean, she's stunning.

985
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:12.059
I just can't wait till they sort of...

986
01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:13.079
Let her grow her hair out.

987
01:03:13.139 --> 01:03:15.539
Yeah, relax a bit, you know.

988
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:16.679
Yeah, yeah.

989
01:03:16.739 --> 01:03:19.199
Sanequa, you've got a lovely smile.

990
01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:20.159
Why are you wasting it?

991
01:03:20.219 --> 01:03:21.239
Yeah.

992
01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:25.260
Well, we get to see plenty of it in the later years and that's a good thing.

993
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.079
That's a fortune cookie there, right?

994
01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:28.980
Yeah.

995
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:35.219
No, he said he had a family business a 100 years ago, his family did, fortunately, because he offered her a fortune cookie later.

996
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:38.099
Now he gives her a fortune cookie and she takes it.

997
01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:40.860
Oh, look, zoom out of the ship.

998
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:41.340
Did you see that?

999
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:45.539
Oh, I bet you was impressed. wonderful. absolutely what you want to say.

1000
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:46.679
What sort of team?

1001
01:03:46.739 --> 01:03:47.460
I'm very British.

1002
01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:48.840
So what tea is he, Duncan there?

1003
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:51.179
That looks a bit like sort of peppermint to me.

1004
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:52.980
He's pouring a lot of sugar into that.

1005
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:55.139
Wow, yeah.

1006
01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:55.920
Do you know what?

1007
01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:57.780
Because when you dunk those teas, right?

1008
01:03:57.840 --> 01:04:00.059
They always smell nicer than they taste.

1009
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:01.139
You need to add a bit of flavour.

1010
01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:05.340
So that's the scene where he realises she's not on the shuttle.

1011
01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:09.179
He sees the shuttle go and his gang clear out.

1012
01:04:09.239 --> 01:04:10.559
He knows she's still aboard.

1013
01:04:10.619 --> 01:04:14.940
Look at Tilly's crazy like Whitney Houston hair hair.

1014
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:20.340
It's like she's put the volume eyeser on and they've had a power surge.

1015
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:22.320
She is so beautiful.

1016
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:25.559
This, I love this scene too.

1017
01:04:25.619 --> 01:04:27.000
This is their making up.

1018
01:04:27.059 --> 01:04:44.219
You know, Michael was absolutely not willing to become friends because she knew that this was not going to last, and this where she admits she's going to be captain someday, and she looks like such a screw up with her allergies and her, you know, worrying about what everyone thinks of her and all of that.

1019
01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:52.380
And this is her apologising for being slightly mean to her in the in the in engineering, you know.

1020
01:04:52.440 --> 01:05:01.500
I think it's just so vital because you could very easily, given her 1st scene, think, you know, she's just going to be the Barclay character, the socially awkward one.

1021
01:05:01.559 --> 01:05:04.559
Whereas here, you know, like you said, she's learning, she's developing.

1022
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:06.840
We got a smile from Sanequa?

1023
01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:09.659
Where she goes, oh, is that a book?

1024
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:13.739
And then Sonika gives the book to look at.

1025
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:15.420
She's never used a book.

1026
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:16.679
No one reads a book.

1027
01:05:16.739 --> 01:05:19.500
But she just looks up at her and smiles.

1028
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:23.280
Not that big broad, beautiful smile, but just a slight smile.

1029
01:05:23.340 --> 01:05:24.659
It's just lovely.

1030
01:05:25.139 --> 01:05:29.460
And this friendship is really nice from the entire rum.

1031
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:38.280
Yeah, Tillia Burnham. one of the best I'm so glad she's back full-time for series four, five.

1032
01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:41.639
So she's not in the 2nd half of series four.

1033
01:05:41.699 --> 01:05:44.039
So we don't miss her for too much of it.

1034
01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:45.119
And she's...

1035
01:05:45.179 --> 01:05:46.260
She have another job, the actress?

1036
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:49.440
No, there was a pregnancy, I think, at one point.

1037
01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:50.400
I'm not quite sure.

1038
01:05:50.460 --> 01:05:51.119
I'm not sure.

1039
01:05:51.179 --> 01:05:56.460
Oh, they decided not to put her in medical robes and hide behind consoles and things like that.

1040
01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:57.659
Okay, fair.

1041
01:05:58.380 --> 01:06:01.019
Oh, listen to her dialogue.

1042
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:02.519
Snuckers are bugging a rug.

1043
01:06:02.579 --> 01:06:04.920
The sooner you're eaten, the better.

1044
01:06:04.980 --> 01:06:09.000
That's such a weird, that's such a weird thing to say.

1045
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:14.159
Mind you, there was a liner, occasionally the lines are a bit pony on discovery.

1046
01:06:14.219 --> 01:06:18.960
Stammets went, oh, hello, non-Vulcan number cruncher.

1047
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:20.639
I was like, what is that line?

1048
01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:22.559
Look at all these.

1049
01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:25.739
Oh, that's a Kardassian bowl.

1050
01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:28.079
You saw one crawling across a darbo table.

1051
01:06:28.139 --> 01:06:29.519
I swear it's the same problem.

1052
01:06:29.579 --> 01:06:31.920
It's a Cardassian It is a Cardassian bowl.

1053
01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:34.440
It mentions it in memory. doing with all of these.

1054
01:06:34.500 --> 01:06:36.480
I think he's cutting them up, you know.

1055
01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:37.260
Oh this is great.

1056
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:38.880
He puts his hand on the thing.

1057
01:06:39.420 --> 01:06:42.059
It's like, hello, hello, my beauty.

1058
01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:43.739
Kitty.

1059
01:06:43.800 --> 01:06:44.820
Here, kitty, kitty.

1060
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:47.099
Yeah, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty.

1061
01:06:47.099 --> 01:06:48.179
Isn't it amazing?

1062
01:06:49.619 --> 01:06:52.440
Oh, look, don't leave me, please.

1063
01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:55.440
You are too good to let go of.

1064
01:06:55.559 --> 01:06:58.079
It's now intriguing.

1065
01:06:58.079 --> 01:06:59.280
It is.

1066
01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:01.260
It's a ship of secrets, Nathan.

1067
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:02.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1068
01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:04.679
And we've never done that before.

1069
01:07:04.739 --> 01:07:06.840
We have never done that before or since.

1070
01:07:06.900 --> 01:07:13.260
The ship is always, you know, where the family is, the place of safety, where we solve the problems.

1071
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:15.420
It's never the mystery itself.

1072
01:07:15.539 --> 01:07:16.199
Yeah.

1073
01:07:16.199 --> 01:07:18.360
It was a great move, I think.

1074
01:07:18.659 --> 01:07:28.199
I've said a 1000000 times in this episode, I can understand the pushback against it because we just don't do this in Star Trek, but people embrace difference.

1075
01:07:28.260 --> 01:07:30.599
It's really great It's intriguing.

1076
01:07:30.659 --> 01:07:34.380
I mean once there's more than one show.

1077
01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:41.280
I think that like this is an odd way to bring Star Trek back and an off-putting way to bring it back.

1078
01:07:41.340 --> 01:07:42.900
And I really liked it.

1079
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:45.179
You know, I really liked that I was intrigued by it.

1080
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:53.400
I was seeing things in Star Trek that I'd never seen before and it just looked amazing and like just the quality of the cast as well.

1081
01:07:53.460 --> 01:08:10.559
Strange New Worlds, which I love a lot, and I think is a very successful show, is still stuff that I haven't seen before, but it is very familiar as Star Trek, and I think it's only okay because it's just one of the shows that we're doing.

1082
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:15.239
So this was an odd thing to bring back as the Star Trek show.

1083
01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:19.140
Once we do spinoffs, that lets us be more adventurous, I think.

1084
01:08:19.380 --> 01:08:24.119
I think where DS9 came along, people said exactly the same thing.

1085
01:08:24.180 --> 01:08:38.939
This is a very odd thing to do alongside the next generation, Strange New Worlds, or like a stationary place where everybody argues with each other and there's a political system erupting that we can't get away from and things like that.

1086
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:48.060
But like DS 9, I think that's probably why discovery is A, the most interesting.

1087
01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:52.800
If not the most successful, the most interesting of the Kurtzman tricks.

1088
01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:58.500
And B, the most interesting to talk about because you can't quite put your finger on it.

1089
01:08:58.859 --> 01:09:01.439
And that's fascinating, I think.

1090
01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:05.039
But especially in these in these early dirty waters.

1091
01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:05.819
I love it.

1092
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:07.560
Yeah, it's pretty great.

1093
01:09:07.619 --> 01:09:10.439
You know, more bastards in Star Trek, please.

1094
01:09:10.500 --> 01:09:12.000
Less lovey doviness.

1095
01:09:21.060 --> 01:09:26.760
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to find out where we're going next.

1096
01:09:26.939 --> 01:09:34.680
I picked this one because it's Star Trek Discovery, and so it's your turn, Joe, what series are we doing?

1097
01:09:34.739 --> 01:09:40.500
A very important pick. you know, because this is like justice last time.

1098
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:51.420
You know, the weight on this episode, because yes, listeners, we will be together in person watching this and then doing our commentary on it afterwards.

1099
01:09:51.479 --> 01:10:01.140
So, um, you know, unfortunately, there's only one place I can go because it's on my bucket list that you and me watch an episode of Deep Space 9 together in person.

1100
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:03.539
It's all I've ever...

1101
01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:04.380
Have we never done that?

1102
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:05.819
No, we've never done it.

1103
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:07.319
We watched justice together.

1104
01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:11.279
Mark still has nightmares about that man being oiled up.

1105
01:10:11.340 --> 01:10:13.020
Do remember?

1106
01:10:13.079 --> 01:10:14.399
Good grief.

1107
01:10:14.460 --> 01:10:15.539
No, no, no.

1108
01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:17.039
It's my favourite show.

1109
01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:18.180
You are my favourite person.

1110
01:10:18.239 --> 01:10:21.539
I mean, the chance to bring the 2 of you together in my living room.

1111
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:22.560
All right.

1112
01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:24.060
It's too much.

1113
01:10:24.300 --> 01:10:30.180
After, of course, we've danced together to the Enterprise theme tune, which we've also promised to do.

1114
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:31.979
So, all right.

1115
01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:33.539
Well, let's give it a go then, all right?

1116
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.640
I know we've done a lot of DS9. but I don't care.

1117
01:10:35.699 --> 01:10:36.180
I love it.

1118
01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:37.260
It's fine, you know?

1119
01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:38.100
Okay.

1120
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.640
Oh, this would be quite fun, but I'm not going with the 1st one.

1121
01:10:41.699 --> 01:10:47.220
Your random Star Trek defence 9 episode is season four, episode 20, shattered mirror.

1122
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:52.859
It's going through the looking glass. ironically enough. let's keep going past that.

1123
01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:54.000
Oh boy.

1124
01:10:54.060 --> 01:10:56.819
Season one, episode nine, the passenger.

1125
01:10:57.539 --> 01:11:00.420
Not at all, gentlemen.

1126
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:03.600
I've been expecting you. so bad.

1127
01:11:03.659 --> 01:11:05.399
It's so bad.

1128
01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:07.199
Poor old Sid.

1129
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:08.579
It's his worst before.

1130
01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:09.600
No, he got better.

1131
01:11:09.659 --> 01:11:12.539
He did yeah. bless him.

1132
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.119
Oh boy. talking about pretentious titles.

1133
01:11:15.180 --> 01:11:18.000
Wrongs darker than death or night.

1134
01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:19.439
Oh, yes.

1135
01:11:19.619 --> 01:11:22.800
I think we've rolled that recently.

1136
01:11:23.220 --> 01:11:24.779
I don't think we could do that one, you know.

1137
01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:26.880
I don't want to sit there and watch Kira's mother.

1138
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:32.220
He's forced into sex slavery. whilst you're right next to me on the sofa. very awkward.

1139
01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:33.359
Yeah, all right.

1140
01:11:33.420 --> 01:11:34.199
Okay.

1141
01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:35.640
Oh.

1142
01:11:35.699 --> 01:11:36.600
Oh.

1143
01:11:36.659 --> 01:11:38.340
Ooh.

1144
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:41.159
Oh, can we do another season 7 episode though?

1145
01:11:41.220 --> 01:11:42.779
Oh, this could be really fun.

1146
01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:44.880
We like Esri, don't we?

1147
01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:46.020
We love Ezri.

1148
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:56.220
Would you like to see Ezra in a procedural detective genre episode where Geran, the evil serial killer is the person that she consults?

1149
01:11:56.279 --> 01:11:57.479
Yes, more than anything.

1150
01:11:57.899 --> 01:12:05.399
Well, then, Field of Fire, season 7, episode 13. the episode for you.

1151
01:12:05.460 --> 01:12:11.640
Now, this is the one that Robert Hewitt Wolf, who ditched the show to go on and do more important work at the end of five.

1152
01:12:11.699 --> 01:12:13.920
It's the only script he came back to do.

1153
01:12:13.979 --> 01:12:14.699
Fazali.

1154
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:15.479
This one.

1155
01:12:15.539 --> 01:12:17.220
I mean, I kind of love this.

1156
01:12:17.279 --> 01:12:17.579
Yeah.

1157
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:22.380
It is sort of pony in all sorts of ways, but they really go for it.

1158
01:12:22.439 --> 01:12:25.260
They really go for the serial killer plot. so great.

1159
01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:34.439
She's got this massive gun and she can see through walls and shoot people and be bullets into rooms.

1160
01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:36.420
I mean, it's just wonderful.

1161
01:12:36.659 --> 01:12:40.140
Imagine giving Nicole an enormous gum.

1162
01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:41.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1163
01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:42.779
I want to do that.

1164
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:44.880
I'm looking forward to seeing that.

1165
01:12:44.939 --> 01:12:47.579
I want a way to go. but yes, awesome.

1166
01:12:48.180 --> 01:12:51.359
Well, head to the sofa then.

1167
01:12:51.420 --> 01:12:52.140
Come on, let's go.

1168
01:12:52.199 --> 01:12:53.640
I'll be right over.

1169
01:13:01.439 --> 01:13:13.199
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1170
01:13:13.260 --> 01:13:18.779
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1171
01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:25.020
This episode was recorded on the 19th of August 2025 and released on the 22nd of August.

1172
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:29.460
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Field of Fire.

1173
01:13:47.579 --> 01:13:49.199
I really enjoyed it.

1174
01:13:49.260 --> 01:13:50.880
Yeah, it's so good, isn't it?

1175
01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:53.039
Look at this.

1176
01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:56.760
The butcher's knife cares not... for the lamb...

1177
01:13:56.760 --> 01:13:57.840
Fuck off.

1178
01:13:57.899 --> 01:13:59.579
Oh, come on. are you doing?

1179
01:14:02.100 --> 01:14:04.920
magic to make the sanest man go mad.

1180
01:14:04.979 --> 01:14:07.079
Oh, that's the one we did.

1181
01:14:07.140 --> 01:14:07.500
We did that.

1182
01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:08.460
We've done that.

1183
01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:10.619
And we've done 3 in this.

1184
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:17.520
We did vaulting ambition, which is just a standard quote from Macbeth.

1185
01:14:17.579 --> 01:14:20.100
That's a standard Star Trek kind of title.

1186
01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:24.659
Started off doing 15 today. and then wound up doing 10 by five.

1187
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:27.000
Only the last season is 10, I think.

1188
01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:29.399
Yeah, yeah.

1189
01:14:30.420 --> 01:14:31.800
Yeah.

1190
01:14:31.859 --> 01:14:34.319
And I don't think they had originally intended to do 15.

1191
01:14:34.619 --> 01:14:38.340
I think they originally intended to do 13 and they just just blew out to 15.

1192
01:14:38.699 --> 01:14:44.699
I don't know, but, um, I can choose the episode for your visit, you know?

1193
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:48.659
Well, the 1st episode for my visit.

1194
01:14:48.720 --> 01:14:49.140
Yeah.

1195
01:14:49.739 --> 01:14:57.659
I've been looking forward to this I think I've downloaded Discovery Series one for the, have I?

1196
01:14:57.899 --> 01:15:01.319
Sorry, I sounded like a kid in a playground then, didn't I?

1197
01:15:01.380 --> 01:15:03.000
Oh, no, just do this.

1198
01:15:03.060 --> 01:15:05.579
And or all of...

1199
01:15:05.579 --> 01:15:09.659
Oh, Heartstopper Series 3, Love Victor.

1200
01:15:10.859 --> 01:15:12.779
Poker face.

1201
01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:18.300
Oh, no, I've downloaded Discovery Series 4.

1202
01:15:21.539 --> 01:15:23.880
That's 13 episodes.

1203
01:15:23.939 --> 01:15:26.699
Yeah, maybe I should, that's, I must have just decided.

1204
01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:29.220
Oh, in Star Trek Prodigy series 2, I've got as well.

1205
01:15:29.340 --> 01:15:31.079
A lot of Star Trek.

1206
01:15:31.140 --> 01:15:32.819
For the plane.

1207
01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:39.060
Maybe for TV before bed when I'm by myself as well, sometimes.

1208
01:15:40.739 --> 01:15:43.140
All right, it's the end of the episode.