WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:24:07

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back aboard Voyager this week.

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It's season 6 episode 7, Dragons teeth, which sees the

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introduction of the Vardois, a pretty significant contribution by

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Voyager to the Star Trek pantheon.

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They will be back.

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Jway says in the last scene. not the last we've seen of them.

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Yeah.

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And I gather originally, and this is from an interview with

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Brannan Braga that's quoted on Memory Alpha, that this was going

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to be one of Voyager's kind of big two-part event episodes, you

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know, like dark frontier.

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And I'm usually someone who thinks that if something's a bit

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crappy, it wouldn't be made better by making it twice as long.

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But I have to say that there's something about this that would

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have made, I think, for a pretty great event episode, but instead

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because it's just another episode of Voyager, it all seems a bit

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inconsequential.

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It even feels like they're trying to put in the resources for a 2

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part episode, you know, because I think like, yeah, we will

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probably point and laugh.

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That's what it's TGI in this episode.

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But for the time, it's pretty good.

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It's pretty detailed, you know, and there's some there's some good

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sort of Voyager going to the atmosphere of a planet and stuff like

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that going on.

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There's some terrible backdrops through Windows in Voyager, but

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we'll talk about those.

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Do you know what?

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You sent me a bit of trivia about this.

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It's supposed to be a two-parter, and then they decided to make it

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a one-parter because they didn't think it would stretch to a two

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parter.

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And then they realised, no, as a one parter, it's too rust, and it

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should have been a two-parter after all.

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We were in series 6 of Voyager now.

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They should be better at doing this.

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They've made, what, 140 fucking episodes of this now.

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So they should know as a script is coming together.

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Do you know what?

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This is long enough.

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Let's bolster it out.

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Let's lose fucking Alice because that was a dog turd of an episode

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and make dragon's tea for too far.

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It just bugs me because I think there's potential here.

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I think this could have been pretty special, but because it has to

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rush everything.

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So motivations are lost.

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There's no time to give anybody any character.

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We literally dash like the events run from one thing to another.

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There's no time to breathe in any of it.

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I don't know.

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I came out of it, just angry because I could just see something

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really special here, and there was no time to, there was no time

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to make it special.

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I was irritated by like the performances of the Valdoir.

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I don't think there was any great charisma in any of them when you

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compare them to like the actors they get in to play aliens on

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DS9.

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It just is really obvious that they are just going for mid-level

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actors to play these roles.

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Whereas I think if this was going to be a two-parter.

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They pull in, you know, an anorax or something like that, you know

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a ball queen. somebody really impressive.

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Yeah, so the ting of unfulfilled potential, unfortunately, reeks

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from this, which is so annoying because I think there's good stuff

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in it.

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I think Neelix is great in this.

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I think 7 is great in this.

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I think there's some good action in it.

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There's some pretty good direction, some pretty bad direction too

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but there's some pretty good direction of paths.

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I like Janeway all business.

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Like, there's good stuff, but it's really average because of how

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it's crammed into 45 minutes.

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You see, it looks like it's positioning itself to be the

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introduction of a great new enemy, and obviously they decide it

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doesn't work.

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And their wrong doesn't work.

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Yeah.

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I will get there.

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But the idea is that this was a race of people who have been

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absent for 900 years, much like the crew of Discovery, and they

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turn up again.

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And 900 years ago, they were kind of these mythological figures

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that would just appear in your sky and take over your planet that

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would appear out of nowhere and attack your...

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And now there's something from the past, like this long dead evil

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that has emerged into the present day and is keen to start doing

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that again.

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But they absolutely flub it because there's no atmosphere at no

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point do they seem like ancient and terrifying, which is what they

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need to seem like.

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And because they're on the back foot, because they constantly

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portray being from 900 years ago as a big disadvantage because

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apparently technology advances at the same rate everywhere, so all

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their stuff's out of date.

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So they had deliberately sort of positioned them as not really a

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threat.

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And so something that could have been really strange and eerie

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just becomes stupid Voyager people and they look dreadful.

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Like, Voyager has the Boma, right?

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But this was going to be, you know, like maybe the main threat of

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series 6, right?

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And they just look absurd.

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They are so bad.

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And like 90s latex Star Trek alien races are not that good.

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And even the ones that we see all the time are often a bit of a

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problem.

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And like last time I kept remarking about how much latex there was

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on screen in just about every shot.

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But the Vardwa are much, much worse, I think, than any of the

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attempted regular aliens that we've ever had.

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I think they're really, really astoundingly bad.

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And it's the...

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You know, Dr. Flocks puffs out like a puffer fish.

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And it's a joke.

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They look like that, but all the time.

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All the time.

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Like they're dreadful.

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They're absolutely dreadful.

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And clearly there's some attempt to make them look like snakes

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like cobras, right?

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I did it.

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Bet so would the Kardashians, though, didn't they?

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Yeah, I mean, the Kardassians, you know, we're lucky that they get

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away with the Kardashians. they look ridiculous, but they still

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have a massive spoon on the range.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I mean, it's still very strange.

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It's funny But you could do a cobra, right?

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And it wouldn't look as comical as this.

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Yeah, 0 no, they just look absurd.

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And and they just look like white American people as well.

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Like, that's just kind of, you know, that opening scene with

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Gedron's wife who's wearing high heels and a little dress.

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She's running through fucking rubble in high heels.

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Like, take your shoes off, love.

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You might get there.

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She's just an American lady from 1999 who's been in some horrific

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threshing machine accident.

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You know, like, it's stupid.

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It's just stupid.

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But not only, are they not an ancient and terrifying, you know

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threat from the past, yeah.

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They're not a charismatic and persuasive race in the present, and

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that's what they needed to be here.

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They needed to be able to convince the Voyager crew.

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Do you know what?

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Yeah, maybe we had a bit of a dark pass, but we're a force for

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good now, you know.

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And we'll join forces with you and all of that.

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And if they kind of have gone down that route.

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But I just think it makes the Voyager crew look so stupid when you

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need Naomi Wildman to point out, do you know what?

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These Valdoir aren't very nice.

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And then Neelix does his little, you know, Angela Lansbury

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investigation and then exposes the whole thing.

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It makes them look stupid in an episode where they've actually

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been behaving quite competently.

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It's very odd.

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I think that's the other thing as well that I think that the twist

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is very, very badly handled.

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And what it needed to be was we needed to see them interacting

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with Vardois and starting to get worried about what they say and

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how they behave.

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Which they would have done, right, if this has been a 2 pass

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right.

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Instead, we just get told about it.

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So we get Naomi reacting badly to the Vardwir children who we

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don't see.

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We get Neelix investigating fairy tales from 100s of years ago by

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having a conversation with the computer.

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Like we don't see them starting to behave oddly or starting to

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rouse the cruise suspicions by their behaviour.

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There's a hint of it.

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There's a scene with Gedron and Balana, where Gedron says

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something odd about his dead wife and Balana reacts to that, but

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we needed to see more of that sort of thing.

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And what it needed to be was, you know, the Voyager crew, giving

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them the benefit of the doubt because they'd seen them in a bad

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way that they'd been the victim of this nuclear annihilation, but

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then starting to worry about their behaviour and wonder about them

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and then culminating in a confrontation.

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And I think because they don't properly get how cool it would have

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been for this to have been a terrifying alien threat, long thought

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to be dead and gone.

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Like that would have been so great at such a strong idea for an

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alien as we know as Doctor Who fads because it's a constant thing

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that they do.

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It would have been really great, but instead it's just another set

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of people wearing particularly stupid latex masks.

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You might fight me on this, but I think there's potential here.

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I just don't know if they've got the ability to do it.

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DS Knight did it because it did a six-part arc. of doing like 6

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episodes, you know, where you set some of this stuff up where

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you're in a prolonged area of space, the vardwire space, and you

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do this whole sort of political shenanigans with lots of twists

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and interesting guest characters coming in and there is potential

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to do it.

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They're just not interested, are they?

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They want this to be an action episode more than anything.

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Yeah Yeah.

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And like it's quite a decent action episode, but like compare it

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to the introduction of the Hirogen who are more successful and you

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get hunters and then prey and then you get the killing game.

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And I think they're quite successful.

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They're memorable.

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It is sort of stupid, latex people, but not horrifically stupid, 4

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episodes of them, you know?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And they're not bad episodes and they have atmosphere, you know

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like they're a credible threat.

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There's something very weird about them.

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Like the hunting thing isn't a massively brilliant idea, but at

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least it's a strong concept.

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They nearly have a strong concept here, but because I think it

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because it's just a general run of the mill Voyager episode

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there's no time to develop it and turn it into anything.

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Trouble with Voyager as well at this point is even when it's

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trying to open itself out, which it is trying to do it because

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it's left open-ended, is that it's eating its own tail so much.

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So, you know, we go down on a planet and find people in pods.

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Well, we did that in the 37s and we did that in the Thor, you

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know.

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There's an alien race or there's a race of people on the ship.

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They want to take over Voyager and use it.

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Well, we just did that in equinox, you know, like all of these

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things we've done before.

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So are they just out of ideas at this point?

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Well, I mean, I actually think that the stuff about the

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radioactive planet and then landing in the city and and

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encountering these people.

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I thought all of that was really strong and interesting and then

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having another stupid alien race above the atmosphere threatening

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them and, you know, waiting with them.

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No, I don't think they look worse, but they do look very bad.

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I've been watching how clean is your house recently, right?

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with Kim and Aggie. because Kim Woodburn.

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The queen has just left us and what Aggie does is she takes swabs

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of people's house, you know, disgusting houses and then she shows

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them, yeah, what could happen to their faces, should they get

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infected by this streplycophica, whatever it is, right?

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Honestly, that alien race.

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It's not a 1000000 miles away from what would happen, you know, if

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you don't clean your house too much.

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Take this, that's all.

248
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:53.100
So bad.

249
00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:54.179
It's so bad.

250
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.720
You can't even talk out of that stupid mouth, can you?

251
00:12:57.779 --> 00:12:59.039
No, it's ridiculous.

252
00:12:59.100 --> 00:13:00.419
It is ridiculous.

253
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.720
But like, I actually think there's strong ideas here and I think

254
00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.159
the action is actually pretty well done.

255
00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:06.120
I didn't hate it.

256
00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:08.639
We get in there quite quickly.

257
00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:09.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:12.720
I thought the CGI was great and I remember at the time, the scene

259
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:19.379
that you sent me a screen cap of where it's some Gedron and

260
00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:21.000
chainway.

261
00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:26.700
But the view is out the window of her... thought that was fine at

262
00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:27.059
the time.

263
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:28.799
In fact, I thought it was hugely impressive at the time.

264
00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:30.179
I have to say.

265
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:30.899
And now?

266
00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:32.580
Well, I think it's okay.

267
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:37.259
It's certainly trying to look more interesting than just putting

268
00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:39.779
up the sequined curtains again.

269
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:40.799
You know.

270
00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.580
It reminded me of sort of Babylon 5. like they've gone in with

271
00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:48.480
Crayola crayons and done some colouring in in the windows, you

272
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:48.720
know?

273
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:53.519
Oh, no, I think those, I think that those images of the ruined

274
00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:54.360
city look pretty great.

275
00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:56.879
I like it when the ship comes in.

276
00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.700
Yeah, you know, and it's all it's all of a piece.

277
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:03.659
But when you have that sort of cartoony imagery and then people in

278
00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:07.740
front of it, they can't quite do the matting, can they?

279
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:12.360
But I think we're getting to a pretty interesting level of CGI.

280
00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.399
Voyager's been here for a year or so.

281
00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:18.299
I think something like timeless had pretty impressive computer

282
00:14:18.299 --> 00:14:20.039
generated stuff in it.

283
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.440
Like, like, I think they can do it now.

284
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:24.659
And it's so rare that they try.

285
00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:27.899
And this is a completely different kind of environment.

286
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.559
I think Voyager only lands on a planet like 4 times or something

287
00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:34.919
in its run, and this is one of them, and I think they could have

288
00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:37.080
done it more frequently because it looks really good.

289
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:39.419
You know what this is?

290
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.919
It's the Voyager episodes where you sort of watch it and you're

291
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:47.279
enjoying it from saying to scene. you know, and you sort of get to

292
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:48.840
the end and go, oh, that was quite fun.

293
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:53.639
And then the 2nd you start thinking about it, it just falls

294
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:54.059
apart.

295
00:14:54.059 --> 00:14:56.639
Part in your end, you're like, oh, that was actually a bit of a

296
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:57.360
dog, wasn't it?

297
00:14:57.419 --> 00:14:57.779
You know?

298
00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:01.259
Yeah, I mean, I think it was a perfectly acceptable hour.

299
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.100
I wasn't bored or anything, but it wasn't very good and there were

300
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:06.840
bits of it that were really atrocious.

301
00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:12.059
And, and, and I guess the difference between what its ambitions

302
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:16.200
could have been and what we ended up getting just sort of a little

303
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:17.519
bit disappointing, I think.

304
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:23.100
I just think some creative and production decisions take something

305
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:26.159
that could have been exceptional Voyager, not exceptional

306
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.519
television, but exceptional Voyager, and what you get is actually

307
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.080
something that's diverting.

308
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:32.159
Yeah.

309
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:32.820
And that's a shame.

310
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:35.700
Well, on that note, let's go in.

311
00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:39.840
It'll probably be really nice now as we're watching it.

312
00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:41.039
Oh, yeah, can I?

313
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:43.379
Oh, can I quickly tell you my theory about the Vardoir?

314
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:43.980
Oh yeah.

315
00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:45.720
It's not a particularly interesting one.

316
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.779
But I just imagine, they've done so many alien races at this

317
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:48.960
point.

318
00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:51.419
They're all sitting around the office going, oh, God.

319
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.620
Whoa, you know, a V, a V's a good start for a space name, you

320
00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:55.799
know.

321
00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:57.600
And then they're sort of...

322
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:03.000
They're sort of going far, va, va...

323
00:16:03.059 --> 00:16:04.200
Yes, that'll do.

324
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:06.480
You know, that's basically how they've come up with this, right?

325
00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:08.220
It's a bad word, isn't it?

326
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.879
It's stupid Well, if they lean on the keyboard and just...

327
00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:13.559
I mean, come on Nathan.

328
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:15.840
Gedrin the Vardoir.

329
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:17.519
Yeah, I know, I know.

330
00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:18.899
Gedron space name.

331
00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:21.000
All right.

332
00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:21.600
Okay.

333
00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:24.000
I will count as it in that case.

334
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:30.419
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

335
00:16:30.659 --> 00:16:35.159
Now, this shot we've actually already commented on because it's in

336
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:40.500
the opening credits of in a mirror darkly, the Enterprise.

337
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:44.879
Yeah, there's the woman with her pipe. high heels off, love.

338
00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:45.240
Come on.

339
00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:48.840
Like, why do they have hair?

340
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.100
Like, I don't know.

341
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:52.379
It just looks it looks stupid.

342
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:56.340
But look, she's wearing, she started on that pretty reasonable, a

343
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:59.580
special effects shot and then come straight into stockcape set

344
00:16:59.580 --> 00:17:00.299
number 42.

345
00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:03.419
It's cave set number one, but yeah, yeah.

346
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:05.339
And just these people.

347
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.240
So this scene is actually set, and I don't think many people will

348
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.180
realise this as they're watching it during the reign of King

349
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:15.539
Richard III just before...

350
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:19.980
Did he have much to say about the World War?

351
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:27.059
He didn't know, but this is set in the year 1484 because the main

352
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:36.359
episode is set in 2376 and we learn that it's 892 years.

353
00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.599
Fetch me my new Royal Chester.

354
00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:41.819
I believe he's a Vardois.

355
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.460
It's got a real mediaeval feel to it.

356
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:48.960
Imagine one of those vars with those sort of gesture hats with the

357
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.980
bills on it, you know?

358
00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:51.000
It would have helped.

359
00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:53.220
Oh boy.

360
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.740
What we having for our face, sire.

361
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:57.539
Roast hardwir tonight.

362
00:17:57.900 --> 00:17:59.700
We stayed...

363
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:04.019
I wish they'd done, you know, 892 years later when we go back from

364
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.619
the from the ad break, but obviously Voyager doesn't do that.

365
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.119
Star Trek doesn't do that at this point.

366
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:13.859
There's such stories to be told about historical periods, you know

367
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:16.799
where Star Trek aliens existed in the distant past.

368
00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:21.119
I mean, we aliens always go to the present day.

369
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:22.500
Why can't they go to the post?

370
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:28.740
We actually did learn in our last episode that the Dominion is

371
00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:30.000
2000 years old?

372
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:31.440
Oh, boy.

373
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:32.640
When was that?

374
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:33.839
When was that?

375
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:34.799
period was that?

376
00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:36.359
Well, I don't know.

377
00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:40.019
The 3rd century, you know, Constantine.

378
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:40.680
I don't know.

379
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.359
If you're saying the Dominion wrote the Bible.

380
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:47.460
I'm out, all right, it's after the Bible.

381
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:48.599
It's after the Bible.

382
00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:50.940
Yeah, so anyway.

383
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:58.559
That may be the most fun we have this episode thinking of.

384
00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

385
00:18:59.400 --> 00:18:59.759
Yeah.

386
00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:01.200
Yes, fantastic style.

387
00:19:01.259 --> 00:19:03.960
The king playing with a Valdoir.

388
00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:09.000
So we do expect to see the Vardwir again at some point, but of

389
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:12.779
course they're so reduced by this episode that the prospect of it

390
00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:13.980
isn't all that terrifying.

391
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:17.819
If we'd had an episode that had actually launched them on an

392
00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:23.579
unsuspecting a galaxy or an unsuspecting kind of quadrant, and

393
00:19:23.579 --> 00:19:26.759
then you would have had 7 to blame herself for it and, you know

394
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:27.660
some real.

395
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.000
So there's definitely threats to pick up on, isn't it?

396
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:30.960
proper stakes.

397
00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:34.799
But the Vardois do actually occur a couple of times more in Star

398
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:35.460
Trek.

399
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:41.759
And there is a dead Vardois on board the station in the Enterprise

400
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.140
episode Dead Stop.

401
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.640
Okay.

402
00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:47.220
And so we do see the body.

403
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:53.640
And in the recent Star Trek film section 31, which was really fun

404
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:54.720
don't at me.

405
00:19:54.779 --> 00:20:00.420
There is a hot lady Vardoir, who has not looking like this.

406
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.039
No, looking much better.

407
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:03.779
The makeup is really actually quite good.

408
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.700
They managed to make her look like a cobra.

409
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

410
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.440
It's a significantly better makeup.

411
00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:12.480
I went to this and went, do you know, we're going to put this in

412
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:13.500
that section 31.

413
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:14.940
Well, because it's Vadwa.

414
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.319
You know, like, it's a thing.

415
00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:17.039
Of course I did.

416
00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:18.000
I mean...

417
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.940
Curse control.

418
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.740
I love you, but you're fucking mad, all right?

419
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.140
They're a bit more purple.

420
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:25.980
Yeah, yeah.

421
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.180
Voyager going down this subspace tunnel that, now, and I did like

422
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:30.420
this.

423
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.640
Oh boy, there's that shitty alien.

424
00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:34.079
I mean, look him.

425
00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:35.279
Yeah.

426
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:35.940
Yeah.

427
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.119
Have you ever seen the sort of the pictures they put up on the

428
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.220
sexual health website about if you're not careful?

429
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.019
It looks a bit like that, you know.

430
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:47.519
It looks like what my dogs leave on the lawn after they've eaten a

431
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.059
bone.

432
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.160
They do go white, don't they?

433
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:50.880
Yeah.

434
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.180
Yeah.

435
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:51.539
Okay.

436
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.000
Do you know, is that the alien?

437
00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:57.599
The Kate Mulgrew was talking about, or is it the Vardois?

438
00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:00.539
You know, the one where she goes, you know, I was trying so

439
00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:02.880
because I swear there's a moment in this episode where you can see

440
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.420
Kate trying her damnedest not to laugh.

441
00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:09.000
Well, she's never on set with the other guy.

442
00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:09.900
Do you know what I mean?

443
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:14.099
Presumably, they're just, you know, someone off, uh, off cameras

444
00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:15.240
saying the dialogue.

445
00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:17.220
So she's seen that.

446
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.440
She tries her hardest not to look at him.

447
00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:21.480
So she spends most of it looking out the window.

448
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:22.740
Yeah.

449
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.960
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's so bad.

450
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:28.980
Like, this is bad. but we're unprepared for quite how bad.

451
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.079
Oh, well, we've seen the vodware in the...

452
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.240
Can you even imagine waking up and looking like that?

453
00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:34.920
Well, it's not just that.

454
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:38.519
It's like, oh, I've got a job on, I've got a TV job.

455
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:41.519
I'm going to be on this thing on CBS or whatever.

456
00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:42.359
What are you playing?

457
00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:46.019
I'm playing an alien on Star Trek, which is pretty exciting. like

458
00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:47.160
Nemoy, remember him?

459
00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:48.359
He was an alien on something.

460
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:49.200
What are you going to look like?

461
00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:52.799
I am going to look like, I can't even say.

462
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:54.599
Like the labial.

463
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:58.500
You know, like the, it's outrageous.

464
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.480
The necks are so bad.

465
00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:04.019
We'll get there when he's on screen and I'll say, it's like the

466
00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:10.019
shape between the chin and the and the collar... say this to you.

467
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.099
You know, it's work.

468
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:11.700
Right?

469
00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:12.960
They're paying you.

470
00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:15.299
It's so embarrassing, though.

471
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:17.759
Do you think he even put it on his CV?

472
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:19.619
Oh, I don't know.

473
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:20.579
I don't know.

474
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.220
So it's Jeff Allen as Gedron.

475
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.220
Um, but we do have a couple of other, um, a couple of other Vardwa

476
00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:29.700
who speak.

477
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.180
I did love how Janeway was all business in this episode, you

478
00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:33.420
know?

479
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.480
Like, she doesn't really, she's not the empathetic one.

480
00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:39.720
It's 7 who's quite nice to the hard one because she recognises, you

481
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.359
know, all, maybe the Borg were a bit nasty to them in the past.

482
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:46.019
But Janeway is just all, like, I don't think she cracks a smile in

483
00:22:46.019 --> 00:22:46.680
the whole episode.

484
00:22:46.740 --> 00:22:50.579
What I like is that we don't start with, you know, trying to guess

485
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:54.000
Tuvok's age or some tedious banter or whatever.

486
00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:55.619
There's no time.

487
00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:57.240
No, for the shit.

488
00:22:57.299 --> 00:22:59.759
By the time she comes on the bridge, we're already in these

489
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.140
subspace corridors.

490
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:04.559
So we're or and now we've just been ejected from them and now we

491
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:09.420
have the Touray who are going to chase us to try and erase all the

492
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:10.559
information. we have about them.

493
00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:14.579
So that's the one good thing about reducing this to one episode.

494
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.660
Is it snappier?

495
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.799
But the bad thing is when you want big sweeping changes to happen

496
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.880
in the story and you have to do it, you know, in 5 seconds.

497
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:28.140
Yeah, but I think the problem is that we lose the middle bit of

498
00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:32.220
this episode. but because it stops being about the Vandois, getting

499
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:33.539
to know the Vardois.

500
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:35.460
Getting to know them and finding out that they're actually

501
00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:36.599
terrible people.

502
00:23:38.099 --> 00:23:40.799
I mean, they're called Defardwa.

503
00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:42.779
I know, I know, and look how they look.

504
00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.059
I believe that's Talaxian for foolish.

505
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.819
Yes, but I mean...

506
00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:48.420
Oh, look at that.

507
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.440
Voyager coming down into the atmosphere of a radioactive city.

508
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:54.240
It looks great, doesn't it?

509
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:57.119
Like the city before it, like when it was under attack, in the

510
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.819
cold open looked magnificent, we only saw a couple of seconds of

511
00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:00.119
it.

512
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.180
I only do it sort of twice a year.

513
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.279
Maybe once a year, Land Voyager.

514
00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:08.039
But if this was now, we'd be doing this every hour, wait, wouldn't

515
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:08.220
we?

516
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:09.839
It's less frequently than that.

517
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:12.180
I think that's like 4 times or 5 times.

518
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.819
It's a very small number of...

519
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:16.619
They land it on the demon planet, don't they?

520
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:17.400
I remember that.

521
00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:20.039
And they definitely land it in the 37s.

522
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:20.940
Yep.

523
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.880
And then there's one more time later on, but I can't remember.

524
00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:25.200
Do you remember it?

525
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.039
It's like, 0 my god, we've landed the ship next to this beautiful

526
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.539
city that we never see.

527
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:34.380
Oh, I know the last one.

528
00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:38.519
Nightingale. 19 gallon series 7..

529
00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:39.059
Is that it?

530
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:39.839
In the whole round.

531
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:40.259
Yeah.

532
00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:40.680
Yeah.

533
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:41.279
Wow.

534
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:42.359
It's expensive.

535
00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:46.740
It's why, you know, um, Yeah, yes.

536
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.119
Now 7's wearing heels with all of these rocks about.

537
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:52.799
And like spangly things.

538
00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:55.619
Like they're going down to a radioactive planet.

539
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:57.900
I thought, oh, maybe they'll wear suits or something.

540
00:24:57.960 --> 00:24:59.819
You've got be kidding me.

541
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:01.619
That is the same angle from the start.

542
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.759
They've not even moved the camera.

543
00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:06.119
That's exactly the same angle where that woman was walking with

544
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:06.839
her high heels.

545
00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:08.700
That's like, right, hang on.

546
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.079
You guys stand over there, right?

547
00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:10.920
Woman, you go first.

548
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:11.279
Right.

549
00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:12.599
Voyager crew, you go next.

550
00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:13.079
Great.

551
00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:13.740
We got our shots.

552
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.759
But it's all bits and pieces that we've been seeing on television

553
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.700
for over 10 years now at this point.

554
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:24.720
It's usually when TNG or DS9 goes to sort of mining places.

555
00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:27.359
You get the stock cave set and then you get these sort of

556
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:28.559
girders.

557
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:29.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

558
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.059
Yeah.

559
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:34.619
I bet there's a there's a girder watch on memory alpha somewhere

560
00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:34.980
you know.

561
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.400
There's certainly in the vengeance factor was the 1st thing that I

562
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:39.660
thought.

563
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:43.079
I mean, these look just like the pods they had in Npok Nore.

564
00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:44.759
Do you remember what the Cardassians in them?

565
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.380
Yeah, yeah.

566
00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:48.660
Oh, we could have to build more pox.

567
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.480
Did you put them in storage stacks pods?

568
00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:55.559
But I mean, I kind of like this, but what, it's Rick Colby, isn't

569
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:55.740
it?

570
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.319
Like, but there's no atmosphere to this.

571
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:00.299
This is just an usual week.

572
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:05.519
You know, like if it's the beginning of a terrifying and weird new

573
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.119
threat, and I think the concept that they have is strong enough

574
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:13.200
that it could be, it's certainly not being sold by the visuals.

575
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.220
They're very boring.

576
00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:19.319
You recall, al less uncollective are both in this season as well.

577
00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:23.039
And so maybe they've just, but then we did have the haunting of

578
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.980
deck 12 and that had some atmosphere.

579
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.000
Maybe it depends on the director.

580
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:28.259
Yeah, yeah.

581
00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:35.099
Yeah, I see, I really like when Janeway goes seven, what are you

582
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:35.460
doing?

583
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:40.380
Like, it's so interesting and doesn't she?

584
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:43.619
say to her, you're going to have to brush up on protocols of how

585
00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:44.339
to...

586
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:46.079
That's a little bit more boring.

587
00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:47.039
Do you know what I mean?

588
00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:50.279
It's like, oh, you, it's not that she's broken the mission

589
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:50.940
protocols.

590
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.720
It's that she has reanimated someone who could be potentially very

591
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.680
dangerous.

592
00:26:56.579 --> 00:27:03.000
There's a really terrible race of um, rubber suited aliens in

593
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.000
Doctor Who in the 60s called the Oridians.

594
00:27:06.059 --> 00:27:08.519
Yeah, they've got these big fins going down their heads.

595
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:12.240
Well, it's nice to see those costumes are now back here for the

596
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.720
Hardwire.

597
00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:15.960
I think this is really a lot worse than those.

598
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:17.099
The neck.

599
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:21.299
Oh my god, the neck and just everything between those folds.

600
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.680
Like they...

601
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.819
You know how the sort of the latex appendages that stick out

602
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.460
generally are sort of like erogenous zones.

603
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:31.440
You know, like the ears.

604
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:34.319
So I imagine you can do things with the neck there that, you

605
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:34.559
know?

606
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:38.519
ugh helps breathing more.

607
00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:39.480
That's bad as well.

608
00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:40.799
Like, why does he have all that hair?

609
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:42.059
Like it's...

610
00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:43.019
That's quite nasty.

611
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:43.980
Yeah, yeah.

612
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:45.359
Desiccated cups.

613
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:47.700
Why has his wife got all hair coming off her chest?

614
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:48.240
So look.

615
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:50.460
Yeah, no, I don't know what that is.

616
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:51.839
It's awful.

617
00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:55.019
But, like, if she did, like, turn to dust or something.

618
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:55.859
Do you know what I mean?

619
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:57.839
Like that needs to be more horror than this.

620
00:27:58.019 --> 00:27:58.500
I think.

621
00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:02.519
But like they just look stupid.

622
00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:04.980
Like they look so stupid.

623
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:07.200
Do you think it hampers the performance?

624
00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:07.980
Yes.

625
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.220
I just don't think it's a particularly compelling performance

626
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:11.700
anyway.

627
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:12.420
No.

628
00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:15.539
Like, the delivery is really flat throughout.

629
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.700
Whether it's him or is he Gedrin?

630
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:18.660
Is that Gedrin?

631
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.259
Or whether it's the one, you know, who's in charge, who wants to

632
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:22.980
kill everybody.

633
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.079
Oh, I just think they're...

634
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:27.420
They've really boringly played it, especially when, you know how

635
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:30.960
we watched Coombs last week as Wayoon and he was being camp and

636
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.059
funny and weird and creepy.

637
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.160
I just get nothing from these actors.

638
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:40.859
We get a reference to the Devore Imperium, the Devore Imperium?

639
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:41.759
The divorce.

640
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:42.660
That counterpoint?

641
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.420
Yeah, you know, better they mention them this week.

642
00:28:45.539 --> 00:28:47.039
Now, that's when you add an actor in.

643
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:50.640
A proper actor who was compelling and interesting and you didn't

644
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:51.900
know what he thought.

645
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:58.859
And this guy, I mean, he's very bland and like by the end, he's no

646
00:28:58.859 --> 00:28:59.579
threat at all.

647
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:00.960
He's completely domesticated.

648
00:29:01.019 --> 00:29:03.420
He's just about on our side.

649
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:08.339
There is, like, this might be me being a little bit. racist now, so

650
00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:11.819
I apologise in advance, but we saw... in the audience.

651
00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:16.440
Those fans do.

652
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:17.940
They do think they exist, you know.

653
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.380
They will be taking offence.

654
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.880
But we've sort of like visually, yeah, the makeup people on Star

655
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.420
Trek.

656
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:28.619
They tend to make the benevolent races look attractive.

657
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:30.119
Do you know what I mean?

658
00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:33.480
And they make the evil races look like the Vardoir.

659
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:36.660
So I think sort of immediately, visually, we're like, yeah, no

660
00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:37.380
he's a bad one.

661
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:37.859
Look at him.

662
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.200
He's got a pointy face.

663
00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:44.519
He's got a winch, the chin and the nose and the just the ridges

664
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:45.119
and the thing.

665
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:46.019
But look at the hair.

666
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.140
My God, why do they keep giving these fucking aliens hair?

667
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.539
Did you learn nothing from the caisson?

668
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:52.740
Forgot faith.

669
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:54.180
With all their rocks in their hair.

670
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.920
Just a big giant thing.

671
00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:57.599
Look at his face.

672
00:29:57.599 --> 00:29:58.740
Please look at Kate now.

673
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.720
Keep it together. keep it together.

674
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.740
I've been out this for 15 hours today, please, God.

675
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:08.759
I can't laugh.

676
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:10.740
I wanna go home to my children.

677
00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:15.960
Oh my god, that's so funny.

678
00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:21.779
Because his neck is so wide, he can't move his face.

679
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:23.880
He's so stationary.

680
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.880
I think this looks really good I don't think this is badly

681
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:27.960
mattered in at all.

682
00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:28.740
I think it's good.

683
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.380
I just don't think to see Joyce there.

684
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:34.920
He looks like the sort of thing I would draw in that window.

685
00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:41.700
I'll say, you know, you are matted in on this Zoom call against

686
00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:46.140
that blasted city background far more effectively than Chainway is

687
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:46.619
in this scene.

688
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:49.440
But I certainly remember it being exciting at the time.

689
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.319
You know, you can see something out the window instead of just the

690
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:57.059
normal, you know, curtains with sequins sewed on.

691
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.259
How is he supposed to emote with this arrowhead chin?

692
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.059
Yeah, yeah.

693
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:08.700
I did like that bit where she says I would take an umbrella and he

694
00:31:08.700 --> 00:31:11.039
smiles and says I should learn from you.

695
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.839
Fuck is Neelix off, and it was like a bird's nest. bird's nest.

696
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:20.519
Yeah, I took the liberty of creating some delicacies from the

697
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:21.839
Belgian Quadrids.

698
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:23.640
Oh, you old tongue?

699
00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:25.500
I mean, eggs?

700
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:25.920
What is it?

701
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:30.420
No, no, that's the old language that he was the Talaxil Zay in.

702
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.819
It's not what he's serving.

703
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:34.680
It looks like old tongue, though.

704
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:37.980
This looks like some very bad eggs.

705
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:42.720
I think Niglix is a much better sleuth here than he is chef.

706
00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:48.900
Yeah, but again, I think that this is really kind of terribly

707
00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:50.579
boring.

708
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.779
Do you know what I mean?

709
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:53.460
say to these new people.

710
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:57.119
Well, in my language, you know, it may be you're an idiot.

711
00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:57.839
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:31:57.900 --> 00:31:59.039
Come on.

713
00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:01.380
Oh my god, bombs coming down.

714
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:03.900
Oh, there we go.

715
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:08.700
He's like, I'm trying to react to that explosion, but help me out

716
00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:08.940
here.

717
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:12.480
I've got 3 kilograms of latex on my head.

718
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:16.079
Is it the worst makeup we've seen since coarse oblivion?

719
00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:19.680
Yeah, you see, the bad thing about Cause Oblivion was they were

720
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:23.279
doing it to our regulars, though, doing it to, like, our regulars

721
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:24.960
to Kate and to Jerry.

722
00:32:25.019 --> 00:32:26.279
They have fixed her lips together.

723
00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:28.019
Yeah, that was embarrassing.

724
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.460
But these is the stupidest alien makeup that we've seen.

725
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:37.140
No, they've covered up his neck with a costume that makes him look

726
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:39.839
a bit like a Nazi. bless him.

727
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:41.220
It's so bad.

728
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.380
Like, I just don't, like, what are they thinking?

729
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:44.700
What do they think they're doing?

730
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:49.740
Do you know, you know, I know you said about the regular alien

731
00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:52.380
races in Star Trek and there's as little thought there.

732
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:53.279
But actually, do you know what?

733
00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:55.740
Like, I think back to the Gem'adar, the episode of the Gem'adar.

734
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:57.839
Yeah, when they brought in the Vorce are in the cells.

735
00:32:57.900 --> 00:32:59.759
And they're doing the same sort of thing, you know, oh, I'm all

736
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.579
innocent, and then the twist is actually, I'm part of the

737
00:33:02.579 --> 00:33:03.059
Dominion.

738
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:08.099
But I do think, I thought, I think they put some thought into the

739
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:11.759
water looking inoffensive so they could be negotiators. the

740
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:15.420
Jemadar looking, you know, powerful so they could be the

741
00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:15.900
soldiers.

742
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.720
And then, well, I don't know what was going on with the founders

743
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:19.259
if I'm honest.

744
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:21.660
Wait, wait, just look like Odo.

745
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.299
But, yeah, and again, we were talking about how Odo's makeup was

746
00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:30.839
perhaps not the best decision that's ever been made on Star Trek

747
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.380
but like these just look stupid.

748
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.500
I'm going to go to a Star Trek convention, right?

749
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.859
Branham Braga's at, and I'm going to put my hand up and say

750
00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:43.859
Branham, why didn't you bring back the Vardois?

751
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:44.339
I want to know.

752
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.059
Was it the performance, the makeup or just the goddamn episode?

753
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.000
Or was it all three?

754
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:56.940
Yeah, it's it's really, it's so obvious what the script, you know

755
00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:00.660
like what we could have done, what the concept is supposed to be.

756
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.940
It's interesting.

757
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.440
Did Chakotay make any impression on you in this episode?

758
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:08.880
Was he in it?

759
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:09.780
He's in this...

760
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.239
He was just there. was just there, yeah.

761
00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:14.099
Let's him.

762
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.519
I think Robert Beltran, who, you know, is an idiot, let's be

763
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:17.820
honest.

764
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:21.420
But I think he did have a point about how they were just sort of

765
00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:22.260
brushing him the side.

766
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:23.519
Yeah, yeah.

767
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:26.099
But eventually I think they're brushing him aside because he's not

768
00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:27.420
giving them anything either.

769
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.380
Oh, I like this effect shop of it.

770
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.099
I know it's not.

771
00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:33.239
The C shy isn't quite there.

772
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:34.019
It's not very good.

773
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:35.039
But yes, I agree.

774
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:36.840
It's ambition, though.

775
00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:40.199
It's all of those pods, 100s of them, isn't it?

776
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:41.099
A massive cavern.

777
00:34:41.219 --> 00:34:44.219
But there's there's some CGI. there's a map painting there.

778
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.559
There's even a little bit of model work in the foreground.

779
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:49.139
Like it's actually a kind of interesting shot.

780
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.300
And it does sell that.

781
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:56.159
So this is where we get the name dragon's teeth from, and it's

782
00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:00.239
Cadmus who founds the city of Thebes in Greece.

783
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:06.239
He comes from Phoenicia and founds the Greek city of Thebes, and

784
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:11.519
he kills a dragon and scatters its teeth and creates a race.

785
00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:12.599
Yeah.

786
00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:17.099
Oh, they explain it in the, it's a Greek myth about a Dragama got

787
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:20.219
slain and stuff, like it takes everything specific out of it and

788
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:21.119
makes it super general.

789
00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:24.179
I should have had you, Nathan, as a Greek advisor, just like that

790
00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:25.619
Native American advisor, you know?

791
00:35:25.739 --> 00:35:27.480
They would have looked it up.

792
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:31.199
But, all right, so now we've got 3 Vardois in this shot.

793
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:36.239
Um, and they all look just insane. shoot them from below.

794
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:39.239
I mean, look, the necks are more obvious from below.

795
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.980
She looks on the side.

796
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:41.880
Maybe.

797
00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:43.199
And then you can't see the neck.

798
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:44.940
It's so bad.

799
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.440
Do you remember the previous ones that looked like, um, that

800
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.119
looked like cobras?

801
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:53.699
The no, were they?

802
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.480
Sele?

803
00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:56.940
Do you remember the Atkins and the Sele?

804
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:58.500
They were great.

805
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.619
And why did we why did we stop doing aliens like that?

806
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:03.659
Like, those are proper rubberheaded aliens.

807
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.079
They're not just sort of, they they use water and make it

808
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:07.559
glisten.

809
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:08.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

810
00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:10.860
And I thought they looked really good, though, really snake-like.

811
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:12.480
I don't know if these are snakes.

812
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:15.059
Why did they have white people colouration?

813
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:18.179
You know, why don't they make them green?

814
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.480
You know, like, why do we have to?

815
00:36:21.539 --> 00:36:23.099
Oh, so see.

816
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.500
I so I don't like Naomi Watt, man.

817
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:27.360
I just hate children, so I really hate her.

818
00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:29.579
Well, I like Molly, but I don't like the Nagol.

819
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:30.840
But Neelix now.

820
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:35.039
I think even Phillips places seen so well where she goes, they

821
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.619
were really mean about you and they said you had stupid ears and

822
00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:41.039
he goes, well, he goes, I do kind of have stupid ears, you know?

823
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:42.900
And your heart just goes out to him.

824
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:43.860
I think come six.

825
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.960
They know what they're doing with Ethan Phillips.

826
00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:48.360
Well, giving him a child to interact with.

827
00:36:48.420 --> 00:36:51.420
Like, I think this scene is quite good, but I don't think this is

828
00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:54.000
how we should find out that the Vardwara are evil.

829
00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:55.260
Like that's ridiculous.

830
00:36:55.380 --> 00:37:00.239
Neelix and Naomi investigating. having a conversation about

831
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.539
something that happened that we didn't see where the children were

832
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:07.739
mean about Neelix, like all of the Star Trek fans were being.

833
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:11.099
And so they're clearly evil.

834
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:13.199
But he listens to her, doesn't he?

835
00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:14.940
He goes, yeah, well, you don't have to.

836
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:15.539
Now go to bed.

837
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:16.559
I read your story.

838
00:37:16.619 --> 00:37:17.400
Yeah, it's just nice.

839
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:18.119
It's really nice.

840
00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:19.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

841
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:23.820
And then I do like, oh, I don't think we see her again, do we?

842
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:25.440
I think she gets one episode in seven.

843
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:26.579
Right, okay.

844
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:27.239
I think.

845
00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:30.000
They considered, you know, the kid was more interesting than the

846
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:30.480
parent.

847
00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:32.219
Later.

848
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.860
No, she probably had work. the actress.

849
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:35.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

850
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:36.239
You know?

851
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:37.800
Do you know what I was thinking?

852
00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:40.980
You know, you know when Voyager got back to the alpha quadrant in

853
00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:41.579
endgame?

854
00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:42.000
Yeah.

855
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:44.639
You know, they could tell all of their exciting adventures.

856
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:48.659
You could literally have a bar wrapped with attention of all the

857
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:49.679
exciting things they did.

858
00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:51.719
Imagine them telling the story of Dragon's teeth.

859
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:56.639
We flew down into the wasteland of this radioactive city and there

860
00:37:56.639 --> 00:38:00.119
was these aliens in space bombing the city to pieces and this

861
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.099
racing suspended animation.

862
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.420
The Valdois came up.

863
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.099
Oh, can we have a look and see what they look?

864
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:06.840
No, no, no, you don't need to see what they look like.

865
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.239
But honestly, gosh, I should have been there.

866
00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:10.019
Very alien.

867
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:13.980
You're right.

868
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.980
This is this here between, is it Gedrin and B'lana?

869
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:22.199
This is the one scene where we get a hint just in their behaviour

870
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:26.340
talking to our people that things aren't quite as they seem.

871
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:28.559
Is that Gedron?

872
00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:29.699
I can't tell them all apart.

873
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:33.239
Oh, yeah, no, because he's going on, he's going on about Klingon.

874
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:37.199
Or was it the scene with Kate earlier on where he says something

875
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:41.280
about his wife not being brave at the end or something like that

876
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:43.920
and she goes, that's kind of harsh.

877
00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:44.460
No, no.

878
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:45.780
Yeah.

879
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.780
Fuck is he at the time to learn all this about Klingons?

880
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.000
They're trying to save their entire species.

881
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:52.500
No, again.

882
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.800
But, you know, like if they'd been working together over a period

883
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:59.760
of time, like if this was a big event where they find and, you

884
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:03.719
know, they accidentally revive these people and then starting, they

885
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:05.039
start trying to help them.

886
00:39:06.300 --> 00:39:11.820
But like if I was, you know, trying to help the survival of my

887
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:13.260
entire species, yeah.

888
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.260
I wouldn't be there, you know, reading a load of Greek myths going

889
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:19.559
well, Nathan, you know, I've been reading about Greek philosophy

890
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:19.800
you know?

891
00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:22.320
No, it's, yeah, it is.

892
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.320
It's a sort of economic way of suggesting there's some sort of a

893
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:27.719
relationship there, but...

894
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.320
So, what's you got on the pot there?

895
00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:32.519
Can you say the flames going?

896
00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:33.300
No.

897
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.159
Leola root stew, do you think?

898
00:39:35.219 --> 00:39:35.760
Probably.

899
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:37.440
I love this.

900
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:42.960
The funny thing is, So it's it's Migel as the computer.

901
00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:46.440
You've got Neelix talking to Migel, and where do the words?

902
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:49.920
where does the word Vardoir, meaning foolish 1st occur, and it's

903
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.619
in L. Daxon's collected folklore.

904
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:57.900
Uh, and the names of the individual stories are really funny.

905
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.059
Like, have a look at them.

906
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.500
Name the specific folk tales.

907
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:03.900
The demon with the golden voice.

908
00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:06.420
The deadly stranger.

909
00:40:06.780 --> 00:40:09.840
The tale of the boy who lost his head.

910
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:14.940
That's what Neelix goes, that's a bit grizzly.

911
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.440
For fairy stories.

912
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:17.460
That's right.

913
00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:19.320
The tale of the bloody hand.

914
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.780
So good.

915
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:24.840
Actually, this reminds me of investigations.

916
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:28.559
Remember that season 2 episode where Neelix reveals Jonas via his

917
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.440
daily chat show TV.

918
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:32.039
Yeah that's right.

919
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:33.900
That's right What are they thinking?

920
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:35.400
For God's sakes.

921
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:40.800
Yeah, see, and all of this, the Borg and the Vardwa, all of that

922
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.400
if it was a two-parter, there's time to explore that as well, and

923
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:48.420
the consequences of how she feels about it, but instead we just

924
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:50.340
get these little pin pricks, you know?

925
00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:51.119
Yeah.

926
00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:56.280
But it because it needed to be a story about them unleashing this

927
00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:01.920
ancient terror on this part of the galaxy and they just never, yeah

928
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:04.980
that. flappy necked aliens.

929
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:05.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

930
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.300
So part of the problem is the aliens just look absurd death.

931
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.579
They look stupid and they don't look terrifying.

932
00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:14.519
And it's kind of like, oh, they'll be terrifying if they look like

933
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:15.960
snakes and guess what?

934
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:16.920
They aren't.

935
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:20.400
Nathan, are we Delta Quadrant Xenophobic?

936
00:41:20.460 --> 00:41:24.960
Yeah, I just think, like, I'm just trying to think about, it's 90s

937
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:26.760
Star Trek that does aliens like this.

938
00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:32.519
60 Star Trek doesn't, particularly and modern Star Trek doesn't.

939
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:37.260
You know, there is that Vardoir in section 31, And of course, what

940
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:44.159
you can do with makeup now is just vastly better and more complex

941
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:45.539
and more convincing.

942
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.360
And also they just decide to go for it.

943
00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:53.519
You know, so the Vardoir in section 31 looks kind of super strange

944
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.980
and terrifying and nowhere near as stupid.

945
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:02.219
You know, we said about how there's some effort here to tell this

946
00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:05.579
story visually, and I do applaud that, and I think it's especially

947
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.159
true at the start and the end of the episode where there are

948
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:09.780
prolonged action sequence.

949
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:10.980
Oh, boy.

950
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:16.320
There is a lot of exposition and sort of suggested word peril in

951
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.940
the middle of the episode though, isn't it?

952
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.920
And this was where I was starting to get a bit bored.

953
00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:21.179
I was like, all right, stop talking now.

954
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:21.539
Come on.

955
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.639
Because I mean, Tubo comes up with a great plan.

956
00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:26.039
Right, we're going to go up there, you're going to distract them

957
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:28.619
then we're going to take them out and then we'll all get away

958
00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:29.099
together.

959
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.019
And it's a tactically a really good plan.

960
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:33.119
But it is a lot of talk.

961
00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:34.679
Yeah, yeah.

962
00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:41.760
So they needed what needed to happen is that this conflict here

963
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:49.019
between this guy and them needed to spill out and make her more

964
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:49.679
suspicious.

965
00:42:49.739 --> 00:42:54.300
Um, you know, but this is all just talk, isn't it?

966
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:55.559
It is...

967
00:42:55.619 --> 00:42:57.960
I've just realised, you know, they've all got different lengths of

968
00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:59.039
sort of stupid hair.

969
00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:01.380
Maybe that's how you're supposed to tell them apart.

970
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:04.500
Not through the performance or the character.

971
00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:05.340
Why do they have hair?

972
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.199
Like, why do they give them?

973
00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:09.000
always give them terrible hair.

974
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:13.079
I mean, there was a scene just there where they shot Gedwin from

975
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:15.480
the side and that bun was so massive.

976
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:17.519
He looked a bit like Helen Shapiro, you know?

977
00:43:17.579 --> 00:43:20.340
I was like, what are you doing?

978
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.739
Bless them.

979
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:25.079
Anyone who had a heart anyway.

980
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:28.019
Oh, no, that's Silla.

981
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.380
Sorry.

982
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:31.199
She had a bum, too.

983
00:43:31.260 --> 00:43:34.619
So these scenes here now where they're sort of whispering like

984
00:43:34.619 --> 00:43:36.239
we're going to take over Voyager now.

985
00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:39.599
Well, yeah, we did that 6 happens ago, episodes ago in Xbox.

986
00:43:39.659 --> 00:43:40.920
We have just done this.

987
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:42.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

988
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:43.139
Yeah.

989
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.300
But, I don't know.

990
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:46.019
I don't know.

991
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:51.300
We're finding out that they're evil, that they want to, you know

992
00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:54.300
rule the galaxy again or whatever.

993
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.400
But the crew isn't finding that out.

994
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:59.340
You know, Neelix is just reading folk tales in his quarters.

995
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.739
If this was a soup alter.

996
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:05.340
So maybe that could be if they'd sort of executed it better, that

997
00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:06.960
they were, you know, innocent.

998
00:44:07.019 --> 00:44:09.719
Um, then that could have been the twist at the end of the 1st

999
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.159
episode, you know, that, 0 my god.

1000
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:15.900
They were a great evil race all along and now we've got to try and

1001
00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:16.139
stop them.

1002
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:19.980
What we do get is actually quite a good scene later on where

1003
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:25.139
Janeway confronts Gedron and says, you said that you were traders

1004
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:27.840
and stuff, and then that was how you use the subspace corridors or

1005
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:28.139
whatever.

1006
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:29.760
And that's a scene that we don't see.

1007
00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:31.440
Oh my god, look at his name.

1008
00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:34.679
Nathan, why did you say labial to me?

1009
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.300
Because that's all like... all I can see now. every time I know.

1010
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:40.019
What they thinking?

1011
00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:41.820
What the fuck are they thinking?

1012
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:46.440
It's not like I'm an expert in that in any way, but even I thought

1013
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:46.800
of it.

1014
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:48.179
It's awful.

1015
00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:52.079
Sort of, you know, it's a Star Trek fan. sort of vervoid-esque.

1016
00:44:52.139 --> 00:44:55.860
Maybe look at Google the word vervoids and do I see what I mean?

1017
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:57.900
It looks so dumb.

1018
00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:59.039
It looks so dumb.

1019
00:44:59.099 --> 00:45:04.380
But the Sele looked like Cobras, the one in Section 31 looks

1020
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:04.920
pretty cool.

1021
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:08.699
But they should have looked more terrifying.

1022
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:14.159
They needed to look scary, and we have pity on them, and because

1023
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:17.280
we're enlightened 24th century people, we don't judge by

1024
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:18.059
appearances.

1025
00:45:18.059 --> 00:45:22.199
You want somebody like Marco Lamo in that role as well, with huge

1026
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:23.039
presidents.

1027
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:24.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1028
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:28.739
Oh, 7 of nine, would you please come and meet me in the cargo

1029
00:45:28.739 --> 00:45:29.099
bay?

1030
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.219
I need to discuss, we need to look at another database.

1031
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:34.320
They may be evil. you know.

1032
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:39.960
Look how unimpressed she looks.

1033
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:43.019
I've been looking at a load of folk tales from my planet and she

1034
00:45:43.019 --> 00:45:43.679
goes, what?

1035
00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:45.659
Is that your research?

1036
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:46.199
Is that it?

1037
00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:46.920
Fairy stories?

1038
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:50.820
But this, like, this is terrifying.

1039
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.179
And if we'd found out about it some other way than just Neelix

1040
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:56.159
delivering...

1041
00:45:56.219 --> 00:45:58.139
We'd see it now, wouldn't we?

1042
00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:00.300
Well, I think you would.

1043
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:04.019
You know, it would be like, what was that episode of Discovery

1044
00:46:04.019 --> 00:46:06.239
will watch with the kid on the planet.

1045
00:46:06.300 --> 00:46:10.260
And then suddenly, the thing was in orbit and the whole thing was

1046
00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:11.219
destroyed, you know?

1047
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:13.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sort of thing.

1048
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:16.380
Well, maybe if that's the cold open.

1049
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:23.099
You know, like if the cold open is, the, the, whatever the terray

1050
00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:26.880
you know, because a, a federation, like an alliance of people come

1051
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:30.599
together, the Vadwa actually describe this to Janeway, an alliance

1052
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:33.360
of people come together and then bombard their planet and kill

1053
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:35.579
them all and they have to withdraw.

1054
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:40.559
If we had seen, you know, a huge event where they just appear out

1055
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.159
of nowhere terrifyingly and start destroying the planet and we

1056
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:47.099
have people making the decision to react to them or something

1057
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:51.119
because we never see that because we don't have a sense of what

1058
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:51.480
they do.

1059
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:53.039
What did the Videans do?

1060
00:46:53.099 --> 00:46:54.360
What did the Melon do?

1061
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:55.920
What do the hirogen do?

1062
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:57.480
What do the Kazon do?

1063
00:46:57.539 --> 00:46:58.260
We know.

1064
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:02.039
They have a really strong central idea and we know how they

1065
00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:02.699
behave.

1066
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:04.920
We don't know what threat these people pose.

1067
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:07.860
It's what I was talking about last week with the Dominion, wasn't

1068
00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:08.039
it?

1069
00:47:08.099 --> 00:47:11.099
was they did all those wonderful setup episodes where you saw the

1070
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:11.519
concert.

1071
00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:12.659
Remember the Quickening planet?

1072
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.840
You saw the consequences of what they do even before we met them.

1073
00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:19.679
Yeah, this it's, oh my god.

1074
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:21.960
He goes, you wanted to see me, captain.

1075
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:26.099
She goes, yes, we're doing an exhibition of gynaecological art.

1076
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.440
Can we take a cast of your neck, please?

1077
00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:35.460
So yeah, so yeah, what I think, what I think he's good is where

1078
00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:38.099
she says no, the story you told me is not true.

1079
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:42.780
The Vardwa used the corridors to attack other worlds and then

1080
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.719
those worlds banded together and they did the right thing.

1081
00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:49.139
They put an end to the threat that you caused, and he says

1082
00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:50.760
actually, they're both true.

1083
00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:52.800
Um, and I liked that.

1084
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:54.659
I thought that that was good, you know.

1085
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:58.619
But again, like we have done this, Nathan, the tribe.

1086
00:47:58.679 --> 00:47:59.940
We have done this before.

1087
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:01.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1088
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:01.920
Yeah.

1089
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:06.059
And we've had this scene where she looks disappointed that she's

1090
00:48:06.059 --> 00:48:07.320
been cold.

1091
00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:10.920
I mean, you know, like it's Voyager and it's always going to do

1092
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:12.000
similar things.

1093
00:48:12.059 --> 00:48:13.019
Do you know what I mean?

1094
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:15.420
This is the sort of thing that Voyager does.

1095
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.639
The question is, does it do it well?

1096
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:21.059
And is the combination of things new and interesting?

1097
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.960
And I think that there was enough here for the potential for it to

1098
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.500
be that.

1099
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:28.800
You know, like having them work with a group of people and then

1100
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.280
discover that they're evil, that's a thing that happens all the

1101
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:32.940
time, I think.

1102
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.239
But if there'd been a particular kind of interesting Vardois twist

1103
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:37.739
to it, it would have been good.

1104
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:39.900
But I do like as well.

1105
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:46.380
I like the idea of this great ancient evil race, but now they're

1106
00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:48.900
pathetic, out of date and desperate.

1107
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.139
That's a great idea that they could have run with.

1108
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.380
Except that's never going to be our recurring villain for the rest

1109
00:48:55.380 --> 00:48:56.460
of the season then.

1110
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:57.420
Do you know what I mean?

1111
00:48:57.480 --> 00:48:58.380
Because who gives a shit?

1112
00:48:58.440 --> 00:48:59.159
They're hopeless.

1113
00:48:59.219 --> 00:49:04.800
But what if we'd unleashed them and they had access to their space

1114
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:10.440
corridors or whatever and they were determined to take over the

1115
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:12.300
this part of the galaxy again?

1116
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.920
I hate to keep doing this, but isn't that just species 8472 and

1117
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:17.760
fluidic space?

1118
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:22.920
Oh, well, the variations on a theme, isn't it?

1119
00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:26.820
Sure, but it's Star Trek, you know, isn't it all just people in

1120
00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:28.619
spaceships talking to one another?

1121
00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:31.739
when we get something like tapestry.

1122
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.300
We're going, 0 my god, thank you.

1123
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:34.679
Something different.

1124
00:49:34.739 --> 00:49:35.519
Yeah.

1125
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:36.420
Yeah.

1126
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:38.460
But I mean, this is a thing that Voyager does.

1127
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:41.460
He introduces a new set of aliens because we're travelling a

1128
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:44.639
distance, you know, and we have to meet new groups of people.

1129
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:48.239
And this was potentially interesting, I think.

1130
00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:54.059
Do you know what made me how was when at the end, and it's so

1131
00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:55.260
quick, I'll say it now.

1132
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:58.260
Voyager just goes the fuck out of there and lose them all to

1133
00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:58.679
fight.

1134
00:49:58.739 --> 00:50:00.599
Yeah, see you later, going.

1135
00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:01.260
Fine.

1136
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:03.360
This is your war, not us.

1137
00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:06.780
But I really like this where she just says you're going to do

1138
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:07.019
this.

1139
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:09.000
You know, we're not going to cooperate with you.

1140
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:13.380
Yes, okay, don't give us access to the space corridors.

1141
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.119
We'll just leave. you know what I mean?

1142
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:16.500
Like that's not going to work on us.

1143
00:50:16.619 --> 00:50:20.219
He should say, you know, captain, you're not as stupid as you

1144
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:20.460
look.

1145
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.360
But I should go, well, you're definitely as stupid as you look.

1146
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:26.039
You look stupider than you look.

1147
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:28.559
She's great in this scene.

1148
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:30.840
I think she's good in this episode.

1149
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.000
It's business, Janeway, you know?

1150
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:33.420
Yeah.

1151
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:34.019
Yep.

1152
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.559
She should have tied her hair up just for this one episode.

1153
00:50:37.619 --> 00:50:41.639
Yeah, she's got her American lady hair in this season, which...

1154
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:43.860
I think it does get in the disarray, though, during the climax.

1155
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1156
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.400
You always know we're in trouble.

1157
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:50.699
Yeah, that's right.

1158
00:50:50.699 --> 00:50:51.719
80%.

1159
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:59.400
It's failing in structural integrity.

1160
00:50:59.460 --> 00:51:00.780
That's right.

1161
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:03.960
Oh, Tom Paris is in this scene.

1162
00:51:04.019 --> 00:51:05.280
Look, where's he been all episode?

1163
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:06.300
Really?

1164
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:08.519
Yeah, he's here at the front, though.

1165
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:09.300
He just got one shot.

1166
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:10.320
He's not in focus.

1167
00:51:10.380 --> 00:51:11.219
Oh no, wait, he is.

1168
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:14.699
I think Robert Duncan McNeil went, do I have to come in for this?

1169
00:51:15.659 --> 00:51:18.420
I say one thing about where we're going.

1170
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:19.019
That's it.

1171
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:25.260
Oh, Harry Kim's here too. it's all contractual In fact, it's all

1172
00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:26.460
your favourites, this episode.

1173
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:27.659
Neelix 7.

1174
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.360
We had a scene with a doctor and Janeway.

1175
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:33.179
And some 2 varket in it as well.

1176
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:39.239
Again, too, I think that had this been a two-parter with the

1177
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:44.340
budget of 2 episodes, a lot of this narration we would have seen

1178
00:51:44.340 --> 00:51:45.000
happening.

1179
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:47.280
And I think that would have been good.

1180
00:51:47.940 --> 00:51:51.000
Ships zooming down into the atmosphere.

1181
00:51:51.059 --> 00:51:55.619
Oh, yeah, when we do see them, like, and that city, the ruined

1182
00:51:55.619 --> 00:51:56.639
city looks really great.

1183
00:51:56.699 --> 00:51:59.940
It's just a short of a few seconds, but there's a lot more kind of

1184
00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:03.480
stuff which has just told us, told to us in a series of messenger

1185
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.000
speeches where we don't see it.

1186
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:09.119
Do you know what's so funny about the special effects is it's

1187
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.320
foundation imaging, right?

1188
00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:12.119
That did Babylon 5.

1189
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.800
But they ditched Babylon 5 during the run and moved to Star Trek

1190
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.500
because they offered them like 3 times the budget.

1191
00:52:19.619 --> 00:52:21.179
Great.

1192
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:22.800
It really looks great.

1193
00:52:22.860 --> 00:52:26.639
I think they've they've learned a lot of lessons from those space

1194
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:28.679
battles from late DS9, though.

1195
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:31.860
But it's nice to see space battles that aren't in space because

1196
00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:34.079
space is cheap, cheaper to realise.

1197
00:52:34.139 --> 00:52:34.619
There you go.

1198
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:39.420
We just had Kate lose structural integrity in effect.

1199
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:44.280
Has anyone seen my hair grip?

1200
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:45.179
No, okay.

1201
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:54.059
Fire Oh boy, these these bloody aliens.

1202
00:52:55.019 --> 00:52:59.159
Wow, look, we're just screaming through the atmosphere now into

1203
00:52:59.159 --> 00:52:59.699
space.

1204
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:01.559
The ships are in pursuit.

1205
00:53:01.619 --> 00:53:03.960
Yeah, yeah, it's quite exciting, isn't it?

1206
00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:05.219
No, no, it is pretty good.

1207
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.000
It is pretty good.

1208
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:08.940
It does take them quite a while to get a long distance away, but

1209
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:13.139
most of this, just for budgetary reasons, has to be just narrated

1210
00:53:13.139 --> 00:53:15.360
and you do think that if it's a two-parter.

1211
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.380
Two aliens again.

1212
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:18.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1213
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:19.440
They're bad.

1214
00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:22.980
I mean, I said that Paul Gedron couldn't demo.

1215
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:24.480
How is he supposed to?

1216
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:26.039
Well, he doesn't need to emote, though.

1217
00:53:26.099 --> 00:53:30.539
He's that usual intransigent Voyager alien, you know, like, um

1218
00:53:30.659 --> 00:53:31.920
Yeah.

1219
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:36.599
Captain, I should have warned you, you know, I did warn you that

1220
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:37.679
these aliens were evil.

1221
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:38.880
Look at the state of your hair.

1222
00:53:42.539 --> 00:53:46.559
I think this is the point where she goes, oh, let's get out of

1223
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:46.739
here.

1224
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.679
Yeah, well, just leave them to it.

1225
00:53:49.739 --> 00:53:51.659
She can't see the cure.

1226
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:53.699
Like, Kate can't see that you're a.

1227
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:56.579
I mean, Janeway can, but Kate Mulgrew can't.

1228
00:53:56.639 --> 00:54:01.019
And she is still assiduously trying to avoid looking at Gedron.

1229
00:54:02.099 --> 00:54:06.300
You've got sort of bran and reading in the lines for her.

1230
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:07.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

1231
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.239
It'll be visually impressive.

1232
00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:10.079
No, it's Rick.

1233
00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:11.760
Rick reading in the life.

1234
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:19.739
Joe Mo's like, get me away from these ridiculous aliens now.

1235
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:20.460
Yeah.

1236
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:22.380
See, it's a great move, though.

1237
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:26.099
I mean, it's not often that Voyager just ducks out of a fire and

1238
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:26.579
goes.

1239
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:27.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1240
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.980
I mean, I kind of like, I sort of like this stuff with the with

1241
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:32.699
the array.

1242
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:33.420
Do you know what I mean?

1243
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.360
Like there's that the, we do see a vision of it later.

1244
00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:39.420
There's the satellite that helps them do the targeting.

1245
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:42.539
You know, they take control of an old Vardoir satellite that's

1246
00:54:42.539 --> 00:54:45.239
still working and that helps them target the terrain.

1247
00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:48.300
Like, I think all of that's really clear and that's a thing and

1248
00:54:48.300 --> 00:54:50.340
you know, like it's comprehensible.

1249
00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:51.900
And we don't see it.

1250
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:56.039
Trouble, we keep coming back to these cramped cave sets is I can

1251
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:57.360
feel the budget strain in then.

1252
00:54:57.420 --> 00:54:59.820
It's like, yeah, you've spent all the money on that.

1253
00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:02.639
Do you remember workforce in series 7?

1254
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:08.880
They actually build exterior sets and then Matt in CGI as well. and

1255
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:12.599
they managed to do battles in space hand to hand down on the

1256
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.239
planet and it all it all comes together really well.

1257
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:16.679
That's next year, is it?

1258
00:55:16.739 --> 00:55:18.599
Not quite there yet, are we?

1259
00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:20.099
Is that next year?

1260
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:21.480
That's next year, yeah.

1261
00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:22.739
That's a big 2 parcel, though.

1262
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.840
So they've got 22 episodes worth of budget.

1263
00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:29.579
Well, I did just think 2 parters tend to seem epic in Star Trek

1264
00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:31.380
you know, especially in Voyager.

1265
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:32.280
I mean, I'll give them that.

1266
00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:35.519
It's, you know, like we had things to say about the killing game

1267
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:36.719
but it looked great.

1268
00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:39.420
I think we had good things to say about...

1269
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:41.880
Do remember we had that great shot of the holodeck?

1270
00:55:41.940 --> 00:55:43.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1271
00:55:43.019 --> 00:55:44.099
The whole burst open.

1272
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:44.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1273
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:46.679
In Berlin, you know?

1274
00:55:46.739 --> 00:55:47.820
Yeah, yeah.

1275
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:53.940
Oh, yeah, the trouble is here is beyond the sort of the holes in

1276
00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:56.519
the budget is that we just don't care about the Vardwire, do we?

1277
00:55:56.579 --> 00:55:58.380
We certainly don't care about the terrain.

1278
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:02.460
So it is a bit of a punch the air moment when they're like, see

1279
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:02.699
ya.

1280
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:03.420
Bye.

1281
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:05.579
Yeah, see you in section 31.

1282
00:56:05.699 --> 00:56:06.719
We're all thinking.

1283
00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:11.940
But I, you know, they put in the tag scene because we're doing the

1284
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:17.880
you know, the end of conspiracy again, you know, my God, until the

1285
00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:18.239
next time.

1286
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:23.880
But I would have liked the last shot to have been Voyager just...

1287
00:56:25.139 --> 00:56:28.679
Come in and go out on an effect shop.

1288
00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:29.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1289
00:56:29.820 --> 00:56:30.179
Yeah.

1290
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:34.619
Oh, Harry's got a suggestion now.

1291
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:35.639
Or at least he's doing something.

1292
00:56:35.699 --> 00:56:36.719
Damned if we do.

1293
00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:38.639
Dad would really don't, says Janeway.

1294
00:56:38.699 --> 00:56:42.900
Yeah, so we're going to suck up some of the radioactive atmosphere

1295
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:44.519
and use that to fuel the ship.

1296
00:56:44.579 --> 00:56:48.599
God, great billowing explosions in the city. girders falling

1297
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:48.900
everywhere.

1298
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:50.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1299
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:50.699
Yeah.

1300
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:52.260
Like I think that looks really good.

1301
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:55.139
Oh, it's a shitty, cheaper girder.

1302
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:56.579
They're in the set.

1303
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:02.280
Three, two, one.

1304
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:03.000
Get out of the way.

1305
00:57:03.059 --> 00:57:03.780
It's coming down.

1306
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:08.039
Do you remember that Gemadar ship that exploded in slow motion and

1307
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:09.780
then the girder landed on Dax?

1308
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:16.380
That was pretty good. exciting staff. rerouting plasma to the

1309
00:57:16.380 --> 00:57:17.280
power conduits.

1310
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:18.360
I think we may be out of here soon.

1311
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:20.340
Yeah, yeah, I think we might.

1312
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.139
Once you release the manifold.

1313
00:57:22.260 --> 00:57:23.639
Take us up.

1314
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:24.719
Yeah, we go.

1315
00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:25.800
Look, right through the atmosphere.

1316
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.539
Yeah, but and they only need to get up a little way and then they

1317
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:31.320
can go to warp.

1318
00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:31.800
Look at that.

1319
00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:35.219
Well, it looked a bit like an arrowhead then, sort of tearing

1320
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:36.179
through that cloud.

1321
00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:37.679
Instead of like a trowel.

1322
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:40.199
Ah, toilet bowl, I think usually.

1323
00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:41.760
At the wrong angle.

1324
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:44.340
It looks like a trailer.

1325
00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:45.840
Take a haulier bowl later, all right?

1326
00:57:45.900 --> 00:57:48.360
Imagine a few windows on the top.

1327
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:52.980
What does she say?

1328
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:54.900
Get us the hell out of here.

1329
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:56.639
There you go.

1330
00:57:58.380 --> 00:58:00.480
And then look at this.

1331
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:03.659
That is a wonderful shot of the 2 fleets fighting each other.

1332
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:06.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and that's right.

1333
00:58:06.780 --> 00:58:07.980
That's there after.

1334
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:09.900
It looks amazing, doesn't it?

1335
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:11.639
And that's their after Voyager goes.

1336
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.420
Oh, accept each other.

1337
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:17.340
Then we spoil it with a scene.

1338
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:19.500
At the end.

1339
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:20.280
What does 7 say?

1340
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:21.179
Oh, dear.

1341
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:22.920
This was all my fault for waking him up.

1342
00:58:22.980 --> 00:58:28.199
Yeah, but you see, again, if the Vardois had been effective threat

1343
00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:32.400
that they'd unleashed upon the galaxy, and it sort of is, do you

1344
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:32.940
know what I mean?

1345
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:35.340
They've established themselves in the corridors.

1346
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:39.900
So now, you know, we could, like, what's the next episode with the

1347
00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:44.519
Vardoir, if we continue with them, they're attacking a colony, like

1348
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:46.679
we're making 1st contact.

1349
00:58:46.739 --> 00:58:49.739
We're on a planet and suddenly the Vardwa just appear in the sky

1350
00:58:49.739 --> 00:58:53.099
and start shooting the place up or something.

1351
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:56.940
I mean, even if you don't want the barbwire back because they look

1352
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:58.380
like idiotic fannies.

1353
00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:02.460
Do an episode in series 7 where there's a consequence of this, that

1354
00:59:02.460 --> 00:59:06.239
you go to a planet that's been destroyed by the Valdbar, you know

1355
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:07.380
because they unleashed them.

1356
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:09.239
There's dramatic potential in that.

1357
00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:10.380
Yeah, yeah.

1358
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:11.760
Also hope and fear.

1359
00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:17.880
They've done it all already.

1360
00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:20.519
This premise is exhausted.

1361
00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:27.420
Oh, Jerry, that costume is so tight on her, isn't it?

1362
00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:29.519
It's Spankly, too.

1363
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:30.900
It's really sparkly.

1364
00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:32.519
But yes, it's...

1365
00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:35.639
But like, do you remember how they accentuated her her form in

1366
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:37.800
that Picard episode in a very elegant way?

1367
00:59:37.860 --> 00:59:39.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1368
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:39.539
Yeah.

1369
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:42.239
Yeah, rather than he is Jerry.

1370
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:44.159
Now she's just a silhouette of a woman.

1371
00:59:44.219 --> 00:59:45.239
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1372
00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:49.500
To be fair, it was the best thing about that last scene, though.

1373
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.980
Well, yeah, it was just another. there's just one thing I don't

1374
00:59:52.980 --> 00:59:56.340
understand saying. setting up the hardware.

1375
00:59:56.400 --> 01:00:00.900
You don't do a tax scene of they'll be back if they're never

1376
01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:01.139
back.

1377
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:02.219
They're not coming back.

1378
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:02.820
Yeah.

1379
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:05.219
Like, I assumed there were plans.

1380
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.920
Otherwise, why didn't you remove that scene?

1381
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:11.039
Get better at this stuff. 120 fucking episodes.

1382
01:00:11.099 --> 01:00:11.820
Get better at this.

1383
01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:15.780
Well, I mean, no one intends to produce a duff episode, and I

1384
01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:21.719
think, you know, she must have seen that this didn't work, and the

1385
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:25.019
makeup looked ridiculous, and they decided not to bring them

1386
01:00:25.019 --> 01:00:25.320
back.

1387
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:30.000
But if they're writing this, it must have occurred to them.

1388
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:33.840
They must have had some idea of what they wanted to do with the

1389
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:38.099
Vardwir in the next episode, just like they did with the hirogens

1390
01:00:38.099 --> 01:00:41.519
in hunter's prey and then the killing game, part one and two.

1391
01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:43.199
They must have had some idea.

1392
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:47.460
We've been all over the place in season six.

1393
01:00:47.579 --> 01:00:49.199
We've done quite a lot of series 6 now.

1394
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:53.820
We did Barge of the Dead, which we liked and the Muse, which we

1395
01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:54.539
liked.

1396
01:00:55.139 --> 01:00:55.800
Just Muse.

1397
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:57.960
Sorry, I get those 2 mixed up all the time.

1398
01:00:58.019 --> 01:00:58.619
Just news.

1399
01:00:58.679 --> 01:00:58.860
Yeah.

1400
01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:02.940
We've done collective that we found very boring.

1401
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:06.059
This is just sort of mid, isn't it?

1402
01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:09.960
Horton of Deck 12, which is like, I can't really get...

1403
01:01:10.019 --> 01:01:13.500
I can't get a handle on this season, whether it's actually any

1404
01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:14.159
good or not.

1405
01:01:14.699 --> 01:01:21.239
Yeah, it just seems to be Voyager doing sort of Voyager things.

1406
01:01:21.300 --> 01:01:22.139
Yeah, yeah.

1407
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:23.460
Yeah, yeah.

1408
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:28.079
Which we like, you know, like, like I said, I thought that the

1409
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:30.599
beginning and the end of this episode were really good.

1410
01:01:30.659 --> 01:01:32.159
I thought the action worked really well.

1411
01:01:32.219 --> 01:01:36.000
There were some great visuals, but the central problem is that the

1412
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.260
Vardois looks stupid and they aren't really anything.

1413
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:42.480
There's a strong idea.

1414
01:01:42.539 --> 01:01:48.059
I think that they could have run with but decided not to or for

1415
01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:48.599
some reason.

1416
01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:51.119
And so they end up being a bit nothing.

1417
01:01:51.179 --> 01:01:56.400
And I think it's a premise that can't really land in just 42

1418
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:57.420
minutes as well.

1419
01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:01.019
And so it ends up all just being a bit nothing.

1420
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:04.559
You know, and I always say this when we go to sex because it's the

1421
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:05.639
rarest of things.

1422
01:02:05.699 --> 01:02:10.980
It's the one time where there's a single Star Trek show on the air

1423
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:11.280
okay?

1424
01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:15.659
And Voyager was always considered like top tier and DSNR and the

1425
01:02:15.659 --> 01:02:16.199
underdog.

1426
01:02:16.260 --> 01:02:19.199
But I think people knew what was being produced in those later

1427
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:24.179
years of DS9 was of a much superior quality of whatever voyager

1428
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:25.500
was sort of floundering doing.

1429
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:27.360
So this was their chance.

1430
01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:31.139
A step out of the shadow, you know, and truly make their mark.

1431
01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:33.539
And I don't think that they did.

1432
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:37.559
And I think as we explore 7 as well, they're like killing time

1433
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:41.219
seasons, like we've got 2 more seasons of this to churn out, and

1434
01:02:41.219 --> 01:02:45.000
we'll do some that's really good, and we'll do some that's, well, a

1435
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.440
lot that's very mid, and we'll put out the old dog as well.

1436
01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:59.940
Well, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to find

1437
01:02:59.940 --> 01:03:02.159
out where we're going next.

1438
01:03:02.460 --> 01:03:04.079
This was my choice.

1439
01:03:04.139 --> 01:03:06.360
Mission accomplished, I have to say.

1440
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:11.940
So it's your turn to take us somewhere else, Joe. So what series

1441
01:03:11.940 --> 01:03:14.159
have you chosen on the randomiser?

1442
01:03:14.219 --> 01:03:16.739
The whole franchise, as usual.

1443
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:19.559
I just love jumping about the place, you know.

1444
01:03:19.619 --> 01:03:20.159
Excellent.

1445
01:03:20.219 --> 01:03:23.460
Although this time I'm not choosing the 1st one, wherever he is

1446
01:03:23.460 --> 01:03:25.800
because we've done that a bit too much lately, you know.

1447
01:03:25.860 --> 01:03:26.940
All right, fair enough.

1448
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.119
People are used to us being a bit more indecisive than this.

1449
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:32.639
Okay, here we go.

1450
01:03:32.699 --> 01:03:34.559
Oh, oh no, thank God.

1451
01:03:34.619 --> 01:03:38.519
Your random Star Trek, the next generation episode is season one.

1452
01:03:38.699 --> 01:03:41.820
Episode 11, Haven.

1453
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:43.559
We can't do more Mrs. Troy.

1454
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:46.440
Yeah, we've we've done quite a bit of her lately.

1455
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:49.079
We've got a spacer out, you know?

1456
01:03:49.139 --> 01:03:52.019
Yeah, exactly Let's see what's next then.

1457
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:53.699
Oh, I think we've done this one already.

1458
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:57.719
Your random lower decks episode is Cupid's errant arrow.

1459
01:03:57.780 --> 01:03:58.139
Yes.

1460
01:03:58.199 --> 01:04:01.380
Episode 40. anyone wants to go and listen to that one.

1461
01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:04.380
It was great fun, wasn't it?

1462
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:05.699
It was wonderful.

1463
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:07.440
Okay.

1464
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:09.659
Okay.

1465
01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:13.079
Oh, no, we can't do another DS9.

1466
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:18.059
Although, it is the one I refer to quite a bit, and you say it

1467
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:19.260
stupid.

1468
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:22.559
Your random Star Trek, Doosebace 9 episode. season three, episode

1469
01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:23.280
14.

1470
01:04:23.460 --> 01:04:26.519
Heart of Stone. is the one we're here.

1471
01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:30.539
The Great Crystal. my goodness.

1472
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:33.119
No, we'll save that for another day.

1473
01:04:33.420 --> 01:04:36.239
Oh, no, I'm not doing that one.

1474
01:04:36.300 --> 01:04:37.559
It's Voyager's tattoo.

1475
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:39.659
I'm sorry No, no, that's terrible.

1476
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:40.559
Too offensive.

1477
01:04:40.619 --> 01:04:41.400
Okay.

1478
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:47.579
Uh, oh, your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season two

1479
01:04:47.579 --> 01:04:49.980
episode 21 The breach.

1480
01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:54.119
No idea, either.

1481
01:04:54.179 --> 01:04:55.860
Oh no, it sounds terrible.

1482
01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:56.880
Come on let's not do that.

1483
01:04:56.940 --> 01:04:59.159
Okay, one more, one more.

1484
01:04:59.219 --> 01:05:00.179
Oh, yes.

1485
01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:03.420
Oh no, what is it?

1486
01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:04.139
Is it?

1487
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:09.420
No, this is the one and I'm gonna sing you a song.

1488
01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:10.860
Strange New World.

1489
01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:14.340
Season two, episode nine, subspace Rhapsody.

1490
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:15.360
Oh my god.

1491
01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:18.780
Do you know Straxy World starts again next week?

1492
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:22.500
So 2 episodes of series 3 will drop.

1493
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:23.460
I've never seen it.

1494
01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:24.719
I've never seen this.

1495
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.800
Oh, you've never seen?

1496
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:29.280
I've only seen the bit with a Klingons doing their boy band

1497
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:29.699
thing.

1498
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:30.480
I was like, no.

1499
01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:32.460
I don't think that's going to be for me, thank you.

1500
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.539
You know, it's the guy who plays Hammer is the is one of the

1501
01:05:36.539 --> 01:05:37.679
Klingon boy band.

1502
01:05:37.739 --> 01:05:39.659
Oh, boy.

1503
01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:41.340
I mean, a Star Trek musical.

1504
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:42.900
Is it loads of songs in it?

1505
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:44.579
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1506
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:46.320
Oh, sounds great.

1507
01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:47.159
Wow.

1508
01:05:47.219 --> 01:05:49.440
I think we have to do it.

1509
01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:50.760
We have to do it.

1510
01:05:50.820 --> 01:05:53.519
That's going to be a huge, that going to be a huge week.

1511
01:05:53.579 --> 01:05:57.900
I was actually toying with the idea of watching all of series 2

1512
01:05:57.900 --> 01:05:59.519
because it's just 10 episodes.

1513
01:05:59.579 --> 01:06:03.840
I've watched those old scientists over and over again.

1514
01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:10.739
And I've seen the Klingon one a couple of times, but oh, yeah, it's

1515
01:06:10.739 --> 01:06:13.019
really good. seen any of two, you know?

1516
01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:17.039
So this would be, but this is the one that intrigues both

1517
01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:18.420
terrifies me the most.

1518
01:06:18.539 --> 01:06:26.340
The thing is, too, that a little bit like the Buffy musical, it's

1519
01:06:26.340 --> 01:06:31.320
it's not the Buffy musical, nothing is, but it's, um, it's about

1520
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:34.199
what's happening with all of the characters at this point.

1521
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:39.360
It's that the usual thing that Star Trek, Strange New Worlds does

1522
01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:44.880
which is it serialises the character arcs, but the individual

1523
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:48.179
episodes tend to be, it's very well charged.

1524
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:52.199
And so all of those relationships come to a head in that episode

1525
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:54.360
before we have the finale.

1526
01:06:54.420 --> 01:06:57.179
The best trek first.

1527
01:06:57.179 --> 01:06:58.260
Plot second.

1528
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:00.119
Although it needs to be a good plot as well.

1529
01:07:00.179 --> 01:07:03.960
All right, I'll do it, but only if I watch it a couple of times

1530
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:07.679
and listen to the soundtrack, I can sing some of the songs for the

1531
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:09.239
untitled Star Trek Project audience.

1532
01:07:09.300 --> 01:07:10.260
All right.

1533
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:12.420
I'll stand by to edit.

1534
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:24.840
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1535
01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:26.099
and Nathan Bottomley.

1536
01:07:26.099 --> 01:07:30.059
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find

1537
01:07:30.059 --> 01:07:33.000
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1538
01:07:33.059 --> 01:07:37.380
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

1539
01:07:37.380 --> 01:07:38.820
by Cameron Lamb.

1540
01:07:38.940 --> 01:07:43.500
This episode was recorded on the 9th of July 2025 and released on

1541
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:44.579
the 11th of July.

1542
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:49.380
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Strange New Worlds, Subspace

1543
01:07:49.380 --> 01:07:50.460
Rhapsody.

1544
01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:06.780
Yeah, I reckon.

1545
01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:07.920
I don't know where this falls.

1546
01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:08.760
Probably bit.

1547
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:10.320
Yeah.

1548
01:08:10.380 --> 01:08:12.719
No, this is definitely mid or bad.

1549
01:08:12.780 --> 01:08:13.860
I don't know.

1550
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:15.000
Oh, it's me.

1551
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:16.079
It's me.

1552
01:08:16.140 --> 01:08:17.579
Ha ha.

1553
01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:21.840
I'm titled...

1554
01:08:21.899 --> 01:08:24.479
Oh, untitled stream.

1555
01:08:24.539 --> 01:08:25.319
What's that?

1556
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:27.779
What's that?

1557
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:30.659
Oh, okay, type the wrong thing.

1558
01:08:33.539 --> 01:08:35.340
There we are.

1559
01:08:35.819 --> 01:08:38.159
Okay.

1560
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:44.520
Okay.

1561
01:08:45.779 --> 01:08:49.020
Do you say, oh, bloody hell, it's quarter two.

1562
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:49.619
I don't know.

1563
01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:52.260
Just have enough time to make a coffee and then go again.

1564
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:53.039
Yeah.

1565
01:08:53.220 --> 01:08:56.579
Are you recording a book club or are you just chatting with him?

1566
01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:57.420
A book club.

1567
01:08:57.479 --> 01:08:58.560
No, we're doing it great, cool.

1568
01:08:58.619 --> 01:08:59.340
Okay, cool.

1569
01:08:59.399 --> 01:09:02.340
It was a good way of getting him to actually finish the bloody

1570
01:09:02.340 --> 01:09:03.000
thing. you know?

1571
01:09:03.060 --> 01:09:03.659
Yeah, yeah.

1572
01:09:04.500 --> 01:09:06.000
All right.

1573
01:09:09.060 --> 01:09:14.100
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's... 100 and episode

1574
01:09:14.100 --> 01:09:15.239
161.

1575
01:09:15.420 --> 01:09:16.619
You think I'd be able to do it?

1576
01:09:17.819 --> 01:09:21.899
Well, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to find out

1577
01:09:21.899 --> 01:09:23.399
where we're going next.