Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this week, we're watching Star Trek Picard, and it's the 6th
episode of Picard that we've done, so we've done 2 episodes of
series one.
We've done 2 episodes of series 2 and we've done one episode of
series three.
And so this is series two, episode six, two of one, which is
directed by Jonathan Frakes using a huge array of drones and
things.
And it was broadcast on the 7th of April 2022 and it's set on the
12th to the 13th of April 2024.
So it said in the past, as it happens.
What did you think?
I mean, there was some pace for this, you know, but I thought his
direction for Kurtzman Trek, Freight's direction was actually
fairly stately in this one, you know, not, it wasn't like, you
know, the discovery episodes where I'm taking medication just to
get through them.
I'm coming to the conclusion, the more we do season 2 that despite
many strengths, it's probably the weakest of the 3 Picard seasons
I think one's more interesting because it's setting up and it goes
to some really dark places. 3 is obviously the populous season
where they stopped listening to Patrick Stewart and I was wrong.
He said, all right, I should have brought back Marina.
And they bring back all the characters.
Obviously everybody loves that series.
So this is this is our middle ground.
So it's probably our most quintessential Picard season because it
ain't setting it up.
It ain't finishing it.
It's the one it's the sort of filler in the middle.
And interestingly, this episode is bang in the middle of season
two, which also feels a little bit like filler to me. despite
having some really nice character scenes.
I've said to you on a message that if this didn't have Alison
Peele coming out in that sumptuous red dress, belting out that
number in spectacular.
She's in silhouette and suddenly gets a huge spotlight on her and
she's right above the whole party.
I don't know that I would remember too much about this episode in
the grand scheme of the season.
I remember the party and I do remember the song, obviously, because
I think it's one of the highlights of the episode and of the show
and of the franchise.
It's a great moment.
But what I didn't remember is, in fact, that this isn't entirely
about the party, and the party actually starts in the previous
episode, which is called Fly Me to the Moon.
And so Gerati goes to the party at the end of episode 5 and she's
captured and we get the reveal that she's allowed herself or that
she's somehow become assimilated by the Borg queen as she's
dying.
And we see that in a flashback and we see her captured and chained
up, which is where we see her at the start of the episode.
And then here we spend a heap of time at the end, setting up
episode seven.
So we had, I think, the opportunity to tell the part of the story
that was about the party and to give that a beginning, a middle
and an end, but instead the lure of serialisation and the lure of
the cliffhanger, I think, actually spoils it slightly, whereas I
think it would have been stronger if we'd had party episode this
week, you know, weird mindscape episode in Picard's head the
following week.
I got very confused because you told me.
This is the episode with the party.
This is the episode.
So previously on the side, I was like, oh, God, I've put the wrong
episode on.
The party was last week.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I think that when it starts, like episodes one and 2 and 3 are
all distinct stages of the story, remember?
Really great. all 3 of those.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they're really strong and they have a central idea.
And I think that's where we go with the serialisation in series 3
where each episode has a beginning, a middle, and an end, whereas
this is still operating like Game of Thrones operates or something
like that.
Inching it along a little bit each week.
Yeah.
Yeah, so for instance, here, I think there's a series of scenes
with Adam Sung and Corey, who was Soji last year, and like, I'm
not sure that that subplot works in any particular way, it seems
to be there.
Oh, sort of out during those scenes.
And I was like, I don't really even know the context of any of
this.
So can we go back to those fabulous regulars, please?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it seemed to be giving Issa something to do, you know
given that Soji isn't in this series.
We see her in episode one, but we still want to use the actor and
we want to use Brent.
And so it just seemed to be there to give them something to do.
And it wasn't that interesting.
And like I think that plot inches along and actually comes to a
pretty great climax and there is one very good scene, I think, in
that plot, but it was kind of like it dilutes the focus on the
party, which would have made it more interesting, I think.
Do you think what I said to you off, Mike, was wrong?
I think I might be on the money when I say this 10 episode season
has about 6 episodes worth of plot, but it's got really great
regular characters in it.
So they sort of get away with 2 episodes because they do some
character stuff that's really interesting, the relationship
between 7 and Raffi, and just, you know, the wonderful
relationship between Rios and the doctor.
There's not sort of like interesting character stuff happening.
But that does still leave you with a deficit of 2 episodes worth
of story where you've just sort of got to run on the spot a bit
and just do something empty but interesting.
And I felt, I did feel a little bit of that here.
Yeah, I mean, this is a very short episode. because half the party
was last week.
Yeah, well, not quite half the party because everyone arrives at
the party this week except Gerati who arrives last week.
But I'm not super sold on the structure where we keep going
forward to seeing Picard injured and then going back to the party
before he gets injured.
And again, I think that's setting up the next episode, really
rather than helping us tell the story of this episode.
So, so I'm not sure that I'm right.
But my feeling is that they've kind of not really done a great job
of the serialisation here and that that's mostly the problem.
And so I think that if you had more distinct episodes that had a
clear focus because I think that's the problem with series one as
well.
Like, we've done episodes of series one where everyone's plot gets
inched along a bit, but the episode itself doesn't seem to be
about anything.
And that's certainly a mode.
That's what soap operas do.
That's what Game of Thrones does.
That's what it's trying to do.
It's not trying to do this, but failing, but I just think it's not
a good approach, really.
But in one, there was a feeling of that crew coming together week
by week.
There were characters being introduced throughout the series that
were getting focussed as you went along whilst the plot moved
along.
And I think one came to a really quite spectacular climax and
really moving ending, the whole Picardon day stuff, fabulous space
battles.
There was all sorts going on at the end of that season.
Whereas I think this series starts off sort of running the 1st 2
or 3 episodes like that episode in the alternative universe is
just a banger.
The 2nd you get back in time to earth, it is like the voyage home
but it's 7 hours long.
And we did the last episode, didn't we?
And whilst there's a couple of bits that stick in my mind about it
I think the thing I came away mostly thinking was, yeah, I think
as Simon Earth may have done this better more entertainingly.
So I don't know that it comes to much.
There's the Picard and Q stuff, but that doesn't really get any
focus here at all this week.
So we sort of abandon that at this point.
And the more fun relationships.
I've already mentioned 7 and Rafi, Rios and the doctor.
There's like tiny little mentions of that, but that isn't really
given in their focus here either.
So things are sort of picked up and put down.
They're not sort of walked along.
What I do think really works, though, is the relationship between
the Borg Queen and Agnes is great.
And of course, the ball queen.
What's the woman's name?
She's worshipping.
She's wonderful, just so good.
She's the most cashball queen you've ever seen.
She's sitting there with her arm round a gun.
You're right, love, yeah. that's exactly what I wanted you to do
Yeah, she's brilliant.
Like really properly good.
And the way that that's directed by Frakes is awesome.
Like the way that she appears and disappears in shot and the way
that they converse with each other and stuff is really, really
brilliant.
Like, that's an excellent scene.
I think there's an excellent scene between Picard and Renee Picard
his ancestor, the astronaut who is going to go on the Europa
mission, which I think is really very good.
It's very rightly, it's like a very TV writer kind of scene, but
it's just very well played by both of them.
And it gives Stuart a new approach.
He doesn't go in doing the normal Picard thing in it.
And I think it's really warm and very sweet and it's a very human
way of solving this space problem.
So I thought that was really effective as well.
So I do think there are real strengths to this episode and apart
from the musical number, but I'm just not sure it hangs together
as an episode, but it's over quite quickly.
You know, one of the things I really love about the ball queen
this season is, you know me.
I'm not really that sold on Alice Kriegs and Susanna Thompson's
you know, corpse, ice cream, not mine.
Please go see our first. what was it called?
What was he?
What was the movie called again?
1st contact episode.
You'll see hear all of Nathan and Fraser's bizarre kinks in that
episode.
Um, is that I really like this sassy.
Very casual, queen, who's still evil as hell.
And she did play the regular ball queen at the start of the season
you know, when she was the ball queen.
Now she's in Agnes's head.
It's sort of like a hybrid of her and Agnes, isn't it?
Because Agnes is scatty and a bit.
It's really well judged, I think, and a lot more fun than the ball
queen normally is.
I'm really pleased.
And, you know, we lost the actress, didn't we?
I'm really pleased that she had this season. of her just having
the best.
Did you see her on Instagram, taking pictures, taking selfies of
everybody in that bloody makeup, you know?
So enthusiastic, like so happy to be there.
It was just terrific.
It was really fantastic, I think, to see.
My last stab of serialisation is that this is why I don't go back
and watch Picard very often or discovery.
It's because if I, I can't put on a midseason episode.
I don't know where I am, you know, and that's my problem because
I'm not really in tune with how television is these days. certainly
genre television, which tells these big long, you know, books in
chapters.
But there are episodes which are standalones because those 1st
couple very much are.
I think every season of Picard has this mid-season.
What should we call it?
I want to say Lao, Saunter, Longer, you know, slow walk towards
the climax, you know.
Yeah, and that's kind of a shame because it means I'm not as
exposed to it.
And we will talk about this.
There's really great stuff in here.
But, you know, I put this on and the previously on, had all of
these fucking plot points coming at me at 15 miles an hour and I'm
like, what?
Because you remember what they were.
It was like a box sake.
You know, we'll do an original series next week and be like, oh
okay, on the bridge, right?
setting up the episode, lovely.
I'm just old.
That's the problem.
No, no, we're literally not watching this the right way.
I mean, television like this, which is on a streamer, is entirely
designed for people who are going to tune into it every week and
properly watch every episode.
Do you know, did it get an audience?
I don't know.
I should look into that. don't know.
But, you know, like I think if I was to decide to sit down and
watch series 2 of Star Trek Picard, I think I would enjoy the
experience, but it's a 10 hour commitment in a way that watching
an episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation just isn't.
Excuse me, you've got a bit of time off coming up, all right?
You've got more than 10 hours to spare. do.
Well, one thing we can say is it has gained an audience today, you
and me.
Should we watch it?
Yep.
I think we should.
I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Will you pay attention, please, because there's a lot happening in
this pre-tiles.
It's impossible to understand.
Actually, in retrospect, I think I can see why all of these scenes
are actually in it.
Um, and we see the alternative, you know, the Confederation there
and we see Q went back in time and changed the present.
When was it?
Like it is telling the story so far quite well, introducing Talon
who is a really odd character.
Like, why do we have all of Brady playing someone else this...
We just see your little pretty boy there for a second, but he's
not in the season, so that's just his little, his one shot of the
episode.
Oh no, he is in this episode.
He's at the party briefly.
Paying attention.
Yeah, yeah.
Because remember he gets killed in episode 2 when he gets shot
because he's an alien.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And of course, he's better.
Like, um, uh, Q brings him back at the end.
That's the sort of happy one.
You just can't leave Brent Spiner alone, can they?
Brad, come on.
The ratings are flagging.
So this is his 2nd song, and of course, he's played, this is the
2nd song that he does in Picard, and he's played a song, obviously
in series 4 of Enterprise as well.
So he plays a lot of them.
Can't get over how striking John Delancey looks in this.
Yeah, she looks great.
With the beard and everything. to make myself old for you, big
God.
So you don't feel bad.
Yeah, well, I mean, we recently did tapestry, and we said that
this series doesn't, this particular series of Picard never
happens if not for tapestry, because tapestry does that personal
relationship.
I'll tell you what, there are great scenes between Picard and Q
this season.
I think tapestry may have done it a bit more succinctly though.
Well, yeah, but better, possibly.
Well, it's nice to see it. revisited later.
And certainly that final shot where Q and Picard hug.
Looker, Alice and Pearl's test.
Did you see her then?
This is the flashback with her being assimilated.
That's it.
She's got her nanoprobes well into her.
Yeah.
So, and then she dies.
Of course, the ball queen dies, but we didn't know she had done
that.
You know what?
They've been paying attention to Farscape, you know, where
Scorpius was in in Brown's mind all the time and stuff like that.
No, none of that, no, none of that means anything to me.
How could that mean nothing to you?
Yeah.
No, I've never heard of it.
Um, so yeah, this is this sort of thing where this sort of framing
device where we see Picard injured and then we see him taken to
the clinic, um, to, um, to raise this clinic.
And, you know, the time gets shorter and shorter and stuff as time
goes by, look, how beautiful all of Brady looks.
Can I just say far out, she's stunning.
Um, I actually really like this interaction as well, uh, because
Talon realises that um, Picard is in love with Laris, and then he
lies to her about that, and then she goes, yes, No, well, now I
know what it looks like when you lie.
She's one of those people from Assignment Earth, isn't she?
She steps through the door in the last episode and says, well, my
work here is done.
That's right She's a watcher.
Yeah, yeah.
So she's a real.
Please, you're in my dreams every night.
He's sort of doing his array of accents in this as well.
Did you know?
He does a little bit of the English.
It has a little bit of the Mexican.
Can we very quickly talk about Alison Peele?
Because I set you off, Mike.
She truly is slumming it in Pizzard series 2 because her CV is
phenomenal.
Just wait one sec, wait one sec.
There's one second.
Just wait one sec.
The thing that the Borg queen says captured on purpose, that's a
great plan, and it looks like she talks about how Girardi's been
captured and locked up up in this scene in order to get access to
the control room, but it also talks about her being captured on
purpose.
You know, the Borg queen and the Girardi are capturing each other
on purpose as well.
Sorry, just says a couple meanings.
So, relaxed.
Her legs are crossed.
She's leaning back in the city. wonderful.
She's having a great time.
Yeah, I was just going to say that like, you know, pills work with
Aaron Sawkin, a big name.
I know you're not keen, but a big name in television.
She goes on to work with M. Night Shaman.
But the big hitters. like her one line of her CV in Star Trek.
Unfortunately, it's like the lesser line of her CV.
She's great.
No, she is terrific.
She's just tremendous.
Look at her breasts there.
Holy crap.
I don't usually notice that sort of thing, but I mean, at least.
Yeah, she looks awesome.
But just the way that the, that, um, that we shoot, you know, the
boar queen appearing and disappearing and her interactions with
the boar queen is so clever and so well done.
And there's no special effects involved.
It is just a clever director doing it, you know, there she was in
the shot.
The camera just panned across and there was the bog.
Can I take another cold shot at serious 3 though, quickly?
Because I was reminded once again watching this.
What a brilliant cast of characters they have put together in
Picard.
I love Agnes.
I love Rios.
I love Raffi and I love seven.
And yes, fine.
It's great to bring those old geriatrics back in the last series
for one last hurrah.
I would have rather personally.
I would have rather have seen them go out with this cast.
I think they're really really great.
I do too.
Well, and I miss Evan, you know, um, because I just thought he was
adorable.
Oh God, what's her name?
Ah, you just said, the one from Tasha Lim, her.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all of Brady. yeah.
All abrasious.
Yeah, they're all crazy.
I mean, she's briefly in series three, I think.
She appears at the beginning.
I mean, I would have had that hot Romulan join the crew from
series one as well if I'd had a choice. no, yeah, no, that's Evan
think he's adorable.
The one thing they got bang on was that, was that that regular
cast, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
The storytelling, I've got issues in all kinds of places. the
place.
They cast charismatic leads and gave them interesting characters.
And it's the old Star Trek thing.
The classic Star Trek thing of you could put any combination of
those characters together and they've got great chemistry.
The other thing, too, that I miss is this music and these opening
credits as well.
So, yeah, these, it's wonderful.
And I miss that from the 3rd series as well.
Like, I think the 3rd series was inevitable, and I think it is
great.
Is it the next gen fame in the last series then?
It's the 1st contact theme.
Yeah, the 1st contact theme, and only in the closing credits.
Notice Terry Mantelis gets a opening credit, an executive producer
opening credit, and he's the one who's largely responsible for
series 3 of them.
You telling me that Terry is responsible for pill being out and
Certis being in?
My guess is that we get peel for 2 series because she's too big.
That's night, a movie, you say, right, I'm going.
So they write they write Rios and Agnes out this series, don't
they?
And is that because they knew what they were doing the next year
already or what?
I did see some backlash to that, though.
Obviously, I know 3 was popular, but I remember there was a little
bit of backlash of, oh, we're just getting to like these people.
Yeah, are they going?
Yeah.
I agree.
I mean, it's not hard to like Rios, just look into his eyes for
2.5 seconds.
It's beautiful.
Oh, I thought this was a pretty well executed party.
You know, there's lots of extras on the screen. some very fabulous
art and lighting.
I, you know, there's little good character moments all the way
through, like Raffi refusing a drink, like she's offered a drink
and she refuses it, and that's kind of interesting.
The interaction between Rios and Raffi is very good.
I love that bit.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
Like he's already talking about staying behind, you know, like she
says, you know, don't fall in love with someone here.
Don't go back there.
I liked it when Rafi talked about 7 as well.
Yeah, about all the package that comes with being with a book.
X Borg.
It's that moment where she says, no, no.
The implants are heavy and it's nice to see her not carrying
because she's at the party relaxing, having a drink, laughing with
strangers, being normal, you know, not being a Borg for the 1st
time for a long time. stiff Jerry Ryan from Voyager, don't we?
Because, you know, Deadpans, she's very, very funny.
And it means when the emotion breaks out, it really hits us.
But the more relaxed Jerry Ryan of Picard. wonderful.
She's so sexy. bloody hell.
She's great.
She's really good, like properly good and still funny and
awkward.
Remember the scene where, you know, her and Raffi are taking the
photos.
Like she's a massive dork and doesn't get the language, right?
You know, but is much more relaxed.
And I would have been disappointed had she still been like 7 of
nine, you know, because how many years have passed, you know, 20
years or something?
And of course she's going to be different and have learned to
relax and learn to be human.
That was the whole point, wasn't it?
I was super pleased as well that she did stick around for 3 and I
thought she was great in three.
But again, that was just a safe bet.
It was a safe bet, wasn't it?
Bringing seven, you know, as a big love into 90s trek.
Sure, but having having seven, having Raffi in there as well in
that final series too, I was pretty pleased to see that. just
wanted to keep them all, though.
I can't get over.
So like this, like this, she's so funny.
This ball queen is so great.
She's not sexy nation.
No, she's not sexy.
She's not glistening.
She's because she's interacting with Agnes.
And that's not a sexual relationship.
And then in slightly longer shot, she's absent, just to remind us
that no one else at the party can see her.
Like it's all so well done.
It is, you know, I will say again though, and I know you haven't
watched it.
It is exactly what they used to do in Farscape all the time, was
have Ben Browder talking to nobody, and then they'd cut into a
shot with her, you know, it is it's a staple.
I've seen it on a few times.
He's done very well.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Battlestone Galactica as well, with Sid, remember?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nathan, can I get you a whiskey?
So this is the scene that we talked about earlier, which is just
the scene with Rios and Raffi.
And I just think that the 2 of them together are so fantastic.
And like he is absolutely different.
And so what, this is kind of foreshadowing what he does at the end
of the season.
Of course he's different.
He's caught the eye of that hot doctor, for goodness sake.
Oh, and the matches now.
Oh my god, that's so that's so adorable.
It's so utterly Star Trek.
You know, he's geeking at over the matches and she observes how
happy he is.
And I don't think we have seen that smile.
Like, I don't think we've seen Santiago do that smile before as
Rios.
This is new, I think.
There's a very natural intimacy between the 2 of them as well.
Like, he does, he kisses her in a, but she blew out his match
just.
I don't know.
Something sparkles with this crew.
It's really good, isn't it?
I mean, I do much prefer Raffi as well when she isn't suffering
drug withdrawals and relationship issues and 0 my god, she just
has some fun this year, doesn't she?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I agree.
I do think that that's nicer.
And I did feel a little bit disappointed when series 3 came along
and she was so miserable at the beginning of it. like she was
still addicted.
Yeah, look, it just his look while he's talking about her when
he's talking about Teresa.
It's so good.
He's so good.
Little gleam in his eye.
We've all seen that gleam, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, shit, well, you meet someone for a different century.
The relationship is built on lies.
I wonder, doesn't she work it out?
Yeah, it's actually quite good, I think, because that becomes
really, you know, important thing later.
So look at look at Jerry too at the party.
Like, oh, and Rios kisses her on the forehead.
But Jerry, the party enjoying herself and there's Elnor.
Oh, Prissy Eldor.
I'll say it for you.
Yeah, yeah. and look.
Oh, again, Michelle doing such a great job.
Like she's just suddenly reminded.
I do have to make this point, Rick Berman, that this is how you
make Jerry Ryan look stunningly beautiful without putting her in a
skin tight catsuit, okay?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny, isn't it?
Like, there are more women than men. in this group at the moment
aren't there?
Good.
I wonder if they're likeable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. which is actually pretty great. holiday
obviously.
Alpha males in enterprise and well, half the cast of Voyager.
The man number the problem.
So when Picard is talking about Renee Renee's drinking heavily and
they're worried about her and Picard says, oh, she does check her
mobile device quite a bit and Talon just says, no, we all do
that.
Look the size of it.
She's got a massive mobile phone, mind you?
Hang on.
This is the past now, isn't it?
Not the future.
This is our past.
It's 2 years in the future at the time of broadcast.
Was this the present when it was being shot and put out?
So it's put out in 2022, but it said in 2024.
Oh, risky.
Star Trek Picard.
Okay.
The near future.
They absolutely have to do it.
And there are wildfires in LA, which they correctly predict
because they happen all the time.
So...
Please take a look at all of Brody.
Patrick Stewart, you are punching, all right?
Yeah, she's stunningly beautiful.
She's great isn't she?
And there's just a very mature chemistry between the 2 of them
that I quite like.
Yeah.
I'd like to imagine that they're together.
We given enough to kind of think that they might end up together.
Is this the season where Wesley comes along at the end?
Yeah.
So, well, we are just in his casuals.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is he still, is he like a, the travel child for that point?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we've got travellers, we've got time travellers from Assignment
Earth.
They're all in next season.
Omnipotent beings.
Oh, okay, so Gerardi's been so busy with her chat with the Borg
queen that she hasn't been doing her job.
I didn't talk about it earlier.
There was a really lovely, tense moment.
Well, we were talking about sort of locks up next to the Ball
Queen, where she was adding the data for their cover stories so
they could get into the party.
I thought that was really nicely done.
It was a really tense moment.
But I could have done with a bit more of that throughout the
episode throughout this episode.
I don't know.
I just, I do like this character stuff.
I do, but it does feel like we've just stopped.
But I mean, the party is important.
Like they've set it up.
So that was the Borg queen taking over the tree. in order to kiss
Rios.
That was a strong pull, you know.
You ever pull somebody that strongly?
Well, I mean, she is the Borg queen as well, remember.
So she is stronger.
You just got off with the ball queen.
Well done.
Put that on your scorecard.
So this, I mean, this is the important thing.
This party is the night before the Europa mission sets off.
She's about to go into quarantine.
Uh, but prior to the mission, she's still freaking out about the
um, some of the, uh, you know, the practice runs that they had.
And she's about to storm off.
It's about to go horribly wrong.
And this is what all of Brady's all of Brady's character's been
trying to prevent for 24 years and so on.
And then Picard goes off and he says, I'm going to talk to her and
um, Taylor says, what are you going to say?
And he says, I'm not quite sure.
And that leads up to this central scene, which I think is just
great and has to happen at the party, I think.
Brent, will you just get out of the way, please?
You are stalling this episode.
Yes, you really are.
He's like, oh, do it.
As long as I don't have to wear the fucking makeup again.
Okay?
Deal.
I mean, did you see how many vodka she was down in, Renee?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well Picard was commenting on it.
Have we heard of Renee before this season?
No.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, okay.
Well, because it's 2022.
So it's a somewhat distant ancestor.
Obviously, Renee is a name that runs in the Picard family because
he's nephew who burns to death in Star Trek generations.
I do remember he was part of it, but I don't have a clue what soon
was doing in that last episode.
What's his out end game?
Like, what's his what's his deal?
So Q has come to him with a cure for his daughter's genetic
condition.
She's currently confined at home and can't go out because the
touch of sunlight is deadly to her.
And so Q has said, if you can prevent Renee from getting on board
this ship, I will give you the cure.
And so that's what's motivating him.
And she's going to find out um, She's going to find out about all
of that in this episode.
So sorry to keep doing this, but why does he want to prevent her
from going on the ship?
Because the Europa mission is the thing that has been changed, that
leads to the confederation.
If she leaves, if she doesn't get on board Europa mission, the
Europa mission finds a solution to the climate change problem, that
is what besets the Confederation's version of Earth.
That's a really great premise of a Star Trek episode.
But I mean, it is, that's exactly the point of it, though.
It is a premise of a Star Trek episode.
Maybe a 2 par at most.
No, no, but I reckon because there's enough going on.
And so I think this is really wonderful.
So we need to get Picard out so that he can talk to Renee.
Uh, and so the Borg queen helps to create this distraction by
turning the power off and then obviously uh, getting uh, getting
Agnes to actually do the distraction.
There are images of nomad around here somewhere.
You're joking.
No.
Is there a string?
Did you notice the string?
No, but nomad has been launched at this point.
So there's a poster of nomad in the background somewhere.
It's the sort of detail, Curls, where Trek gets very right.
It's so good Oh boy.
Come on.
It's time for so long.
Baby, take my hand.
She is so good.
And that's her.
Like, that's definitely Alison Peele.
It's like a vita coming out to the balcony, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what I really like is I actually buy this because she sings
solo by herself, the band doesn't come in until later, and then, of
course, the band, which is just full of great session musicians or
whatever, picks it up and knows the song and knows what key it's
in and just starts playing along.
Do take a look at her CV.
The amount of musical fear stuff that she has done. is
extraordinary.
This, if it's like a breeze in the park for her, compared to some
of the stuff she's done.
I really think there just should be more songs, like more Star
Trek things with musical numbers in them because it's fucking
great.
Really great about it as well, though, is this is a side to Agnes
but we don't.
She normally she's awkward and silly.
Do you know what I mean?
She comes out, sexy, confident, you know, this is the queen
Agnes.
Yeah.
It's great.
But there's a twist, of course, because it looks like a moment of
triumph and she actually kind of helps to fix the mission and you
think and because this is so wonderfully done.
So she finishes the song, she bows, and then the 2 of them come up
into the frame, which is just suburb.
Oh, what, so actress's name, she must have just been waiting
underneath the camera there, right?
But now it's enabled the Borg to take her over because all of the
stress hormones have, you know, she's now been flooded with
endorphins.
All those are dolphins.
I'm coming through.
I think Carl steered a ship for a while.
No, wait, I'm in control.
Not anymore.
It's so good.
And that shot. where she, suddenly you can see.
Oh, yeah, because they do the eye thing as well.
It's terrifying.
With her grinning like that and the black eyes.
Yeah.
That easily the highlight of the episode, that.
But then I think this scene is very good as well.
And I think why it's good is it's just 2 people acting.
It's just one person trying to persuade another one to do
something.
And it's the centre of the mission.
This is the difference between the 2 pasts.
You're going to make fun of her accent.
Please no, all right.
Please know how stationary the camera is right now whilst these 2
people are talking.
Let's compare a contrast.
That fucking discovery episode we watched the other day where it
was zooming around the room, changing axles all the time.
It's moving very slowly.
This is what I like.
This is the old Jonathan from the drumhead days.
Just stationary on the people.
And yes, the accent, yes.
Awfully, awfully uppercrossed.
I must say.
She's Australian.
She's from Melbourne.
I mean, I thought she was English.
I was convinced I just thought she was privileged. all.
But what I like about this is Pecan doesn't come in and be
imperious.
Do you know what I mean?
He comes in and he's just a security guard and he, what, he
benefits from being old and he says something about being the
wisest of the security guards, which I kind of like because she
comments that he's very old for a security guard.
And he's just kind to her and he admires her and he's not, do you
know what I mean?
He doesn't come from a higher position.
He doesn't say I know better than you.
He doesn't do any of that normal Picard stuff from next gen.
He's just gentle with her.
Well, such a wise move.
Obviously, he is a quite an old man now, Patrick Stewart, yeah.
To surround him by hot young, capable young people. doing all of
the action, so he can just do what he does best, which is just
perform, you know?
And this is the sort of scene he would rock back in his TNG days.
I love, she says I think fear is sometimes a warning that you
can't do something and he says, no, no, no. makes you smile. just
fear. makes you understand the risks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, we did a bit of that in tapestry, didn't we?
Yeah.
It's passing the lesson on.
It's so nice.
It's just, and look, the camera is moving slightly and we're
cutting more frequently than we would have done in the 90s
marginally.
Good grief.
Oh, that disgusting episode.
Cameras moving.
Things are out of focus in the background.
I think occasionally, you know, I put a roller coaster in the set
and Jen, Jonathan sits there with the camera and goes around.
Woo, you know.
Yeah, now, if you are going to stop for an episode, yeah, have
things like this that really show connections between the
characters.
Yeah, yeah.
But this is central.
Like, this is him fixing the problem in a way.
Um, uh, you know, by getting her to agree to go on the mission.
This is episode six.
She don't, the mission don't start till 10. you know?
What do we do for the next 3 episodes?
I can't remember.
Well, next week is the, um, you know, flashback mindscape inside
Picard's head while he's unconscious that we set up for the last 5
minutes of this episode.
I say, I fell asleep while watching this at some point.
And I woke up and that was on.
Somebody was painting a wall and there was stained glass. what is
going on here?
What's this got to do with Renee?
Yeah, I'm sure it all ties in.
Oh, I really love Soji.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So she is in episode one very briefly in a scene.
Remember where it's sort of Gerati is kind of hopeless and stuff
and and she's doing well.
So we do get to see what happens to Soji.
You know what our problem is, Nathan.
We've got a big problem is that, you know, we do these Star Trek
shows and half the time, half the cars, you know, we don't want to
hang around with.
We could happily say goodbye to them and we'd never be unhappy
about that.
Picard's got characters to spare that we love being around and
they keep abandoning them.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, Discovery does that a little bit.
I think.
You know.
Do you think they're as likeable when discoveries they are here?
I think it's so bad. true.
I like ash tile a lot.
And he goes.
Why is that, Matron?
Yeah, he's not as nice as Rios, obviously.
No one.
Jesus Christ.
That one with all the holograms of Vietnam.
I had a dream like that once.
Yeah, yeah, he's so beautiful.
Please do another accent.
You were right though. cutting back to to sort of pretend there's
a lot of jeopardy in this episode, cutting back to him on the
floor here with the black. doesn't really work in this episode
does it?
And maybe that's maybe it is because they couldn't, you know, they
should have just held their bottle and said, this is a scene at a
party where they all get to talk to one another and we're just
doing that.
We don't need jeopardy.
So, you know, they're 30 minutes earlier, 15 minutes earlier.
Yeah, because then it always up to this and yeah, fine.
It is.
I mean, Jesus, he's an old guy and he's just been hit by a car.
That's pretty serious you know, it's called Star Trek Picard.
We know he's going to be in episode 10.
You know what?
I love that thing.
He's had some transplants and Teresa says, what?
I think perhaps it's all of them?
Do you know what?
I would have loved.
If Teresa had gone with them to the future, She could be the new
dock session, and she'd be great, would she?
Oh, dear.
I just love she's Hispanic, yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love strong Hispanic women in things, you know?
Well, I mean, the great thing about it is that she has set this
thing up and she is she is giving medical treatment to
undocumented immigrants so that they don't have to, you know, kind
of interact with the authorities and stuff.
And so this is very now, particularly in, in, um, in the United
States now where you've got ice going crazy and just deporting
people, you know, who turn up for work and stuff like that.
Um, so, so like she's great.
And Rios actually calls it our community.
Do you know what I mean?
Like when he's, he's referring to um, the Latino people that she
deals with in the in the clinic.
He says they're our community, which I think is pretty great.
And you know what?
They set it all up really well for him to go and I understand his
decision and he's absolutely fallen in love.
I'm not going to say it again.
You know I'm going to say.
I just want more of them, you know, and her as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, these scenes here between soon and what's her name in this?
Corey.
These are like the ball cube scenes in part in the 1st series.
They cheat out of why are they here?
yeah And the sort of the pacing then is more sluggish than it
already was. right.
So we have 11 minutes.
So 11 minutes, it's 10 minutes to go in this, in this episode, and
it's kind of like, um, we're, or we're out of the party
completely.
We don't go back to the party.
That's now over.
And now we're setting up episode 7 and I just think that's a
mistake.
But there is one thing in this, um, in this thing, which I think
is really great, which is the scene coming up where Corey looks
through Sung's records and discovers that she is one of a long
line of children that she doesn't know about that all died.
What's her endgame this season?
What happens to her?
I can't remember, actually.
No, I can't.
We have seen the last episode.
Does she go with Wesley?
I don't know.
Maybe she goes to Wesley.
We did, we did do the last episode.
Take any old stray, come along.
Be a traveller.
I think she does, actually. she goes with Wesley at the end.
No, I'm going to make a small confession to the unstarted Star
Trek audience now and that is I haven't seen the last 5 minutes of
this episode.
So fairly soon I'm going to be quite surprised by what happens.
What about Raffi just going so Gerardi can sing, which I just
thought would be great.
That's an understatement.
I, I, you know, when they were all crowded around Picard when he
got hit, yeah, and all the scenes here were there with him in the
hospital.
Oh, this crew.
Oh, I just love them.
That's that's the thing about this episode too, because they have
been split into their own plots.
Like they pretty much split up the moment they arrive in 2022.
And then they come together.
So this is the the episode where we have them come together.
I love this.
She's beautiful.
If you put your hand between this pair, you'd get an electric
shock and then some.
She's stunning.
He's excited.
He blames the kid.
Remember the kid, like the little boy, like her son who is just
hanging around there and deep respect for a grown man who escaped
Coast Cross?
It's great.
He's not a grown man.
He's a bloody child.
Look here.
But this is him. is the scene where he's got to be remembering
what Raffi said about, you know, starting a relationship with
someone from a different time period.
That is a great exchange.
We're the good guys.
Good guys never say that.
That is wonderful.
Because she's the good guy. isn't she?
Do you know what I mean?
She's working with a group of people who are kind of oppressed and
harassed by the police and stuff and giving them life-saving
medical care like she's the good guy.
Oh, sassy, Hispanic women, please, in dramas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. from Dexter.
Boy, oh boy.
She was such a bitch.
I loved her.
So I love, this is the 1st time that Corey ever looks her father
up on the internet.
Honestly.
She starts with Google and starts to discover all of this stuff.
Now, I have a theory here about why she's called Corey, right?
So when we see his records, all of the children that he mentions
are given ancient Greek mythical names, right?
So they're all given ancient Greek names.
There's Artemis, there's Persephone.
I think this little girl's called Persephone.
Um, uh, and there are lots of them.
There are lots and lots of these little children.
This scene reflects last year, doesn't it?
Where Soji had all these memories.
Do you know what I mean?
The photos that were her memories, but even though she only
existed for like 6 months, but she had all of these photos.
Now there are all these photos of her, but they're not her.
They're previous versions of her that die.
And Corey is ancient Greek for girl because at this point he's run
out of Greek names to give her.
And he, she's the last one and he just calls her girl.
This is so detached from the main story of this episode.
Oh, yeah.
It's so weird.
It's a bit like the way DS9 did those plots in the last 10 where
you'd have an episode about something and then they'd need to set
it up for the next one so you'd have this one scene jammed into
it.
Yeah, so there's a spoiler, persifasa, Artemis.
You know, Proserpina, like all of these names, Proserpina is
actually Latin, but whatever.
The fact that you and I can't remember what comes with this is
telling as well.
Yeah, well, the fact that she's just a loose end that gets, you
know, kind of swept up, I Will Wheaton in the final episode, I
think, from memory.
It is really giving them something to do.
And so Q tries and gets him involved in the plot.
It might be Q. Oh, yeah, because the future, the, the, um, the
future is a future where Adam Sung invents, uh, the, the, um
barrier that saves them from the...
Oh, okay, so they're not all bad guys, and these songs.
No, no, he's he wants that.
He wants that glory, you know?
You are right, though.
What you said earlier about, have they shifted the party out of
last week into this, and the whole episode was just at the party.
I would absolutely remember this as the party episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And because there is all this other stuff, maybe that's why maybe
that's why they had to shift that there because they were putting
all this stuff here, which was setting up next week.
It's a bit disjointed.
It is a bit disjointed.
And I do think, you know, the party has a natural climax, a double
climax, which is the song and then the persuasion scene.
Does all of Brady have a sonic screwdriver there?
It looks like she does.
Yeah, she does.
Okay.
Now we're doing what, young Picard?
Yeah.
So these weird flashbacks with the mother and Will's get to see
the father next week and stuff like that and we'll learn how she
died and why she wasn't a sweet old lady like she is in lowly
among us because she's already dead.
It was, it was so focussed the 1st half of this.
I now feel as if I'm involved in 20 directions.
Well, it's like you fall asleep and you wake up in the next
episode suddenly.
Like, I do think that that scene where Corey finds out her origin
is. well done.
That's well done.
It's not hugely exciting or innovative or something, but it's just
well told, I think.
Well, it just it does remind me of, you know, O'Brien delivering
crab rolls and going, well, I wonder if section 31 will turn up on
the station.
Now you know about the changing virus.
Stay stay tuned, folks.
Yes, yeah.
So I can't remember.
Oh, yes, no, I can remember where this ends, but this is all just
setting up the next episode, isn't it?
is explaining the premise of the next episode.
Is it so we can go straight into the next episode and that, do you
know what I mean?
is what they're trying to do is front load the episodes with the
story.
The next one in the exposition, the previously. straight into the
past into flashbacks of Picard as a kid in the next episode.
So I suppose, yeah, we're doing a bit of the legwork.
You know, I'm not really worrying about the setup.
I'm more having a sort of sexuality epiphany looking at Jerry Ryan
in that dress.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, no, there's Rios. back on track.
That outfit, holy crap, he's beautiful.
I can't get over it.
I've never seen such a group of actually models in my life.
I know.
Patrick Stewart must have been like, would you please stop
surrounding me with these young hot people?
I mean, absolutely Santiago is the hottest person who has ever
been a regular in a Star Trek by a mile. by some margin.
The only person I'd probably say yes to over him would be Cisco on
the right day.
Yeah.
And then this final scene, one thing that we do get is this
beautiful final shot, which is just Agnes slash the Borg queen, in
the dress, holding her shoes, and just walking along the street
out into Los Angeles, dress is swaying in the wind.
What is going to do?
Like what the fuck is she going to do now?
That's magnificent.
I think that is a great final shot.
The ball queen is loose in history.
Exactly, right.
God help us all.
Yeah.
Actually, that was a money shot there, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, just incredible.
Jonathan knows it's an important moment.
He said, you know what?
Wait, wait, where are the street lights?
Oh, God, we can even get some lens flaring. lets go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It is pretty is pretty great.
Although, you know, I don't like these end bits of dialogue.
Did you hear what Rafi said?
Oh, how much worse could it possibly get?
Which leads into that thing. that child.
But, but you see, it still works.
You still have that final shot if it's the party episode.
If we don't do the setup for episode 7 in this episode and we just
do the party, then it can still end with, you know, they go off
with Picard in the ambulance or whatever in the car to kind of, you
know, save him and and she strides off into the night to do
goodness knows what.
You know, like, I think that that, that just, I can't even
remember what she gets up to.
What does she do?
No I can't remember.
See what I'll say about series 2.
So some of the details are a bit foggy.
It has been 3 years now, I think, at this point, just more than 3
years.
And I've only seen it once.
So it's not like 30-year-old episodes of Star Trek, their
acceleration that I've seen dozens of times.
You know, notice how well-informed I am every time we go back to
Dune Space 9.
When I watch the card, I spend most of the episode going, what's
that person's name?
Who were they?
Although the pertinent points of Picard, yeah?
You know, of one, 2, and three.
I can still remember very vividly.
You know, Gold Dukut's skull in that museum.
I'll never forget.
Yeah, Martok's there too, I think.
When they 1st walk onto the Bridge of the Enterprise in free.
Well, no one's ever going to forget that, you know.
They spent 2 days hoovering that carpet in preparation.
I would like to issue a personal thank you to Jonathan Frakes for
turning off the power to the roller coaster this week and just
stately directing the party.
Thank you very much.
It was very stylishly directed, but without your usual dynamism
shall we say?
Well, I think that's the Discovery House style.
I think when discovery comes back.
It's very keen to say, this is not Star Trek, the Next Generation
and immediately it's just visually impressive and spectacular. did
that when it murdered off the captain in the 1st episode.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, just remember the scenes like, you know, Burnham doing
the EV thing and then Burnham trapped in the brig.
Oh, the exterior of the ship.
Yeah, amazing.
Like, it just looked magnificent.
And so that's the house style going forward.
It is unlike the others.
Not to leave the point.
I do like a character scene to be actor focussed rather than
director focussed.
And there are there are times in discovery where I'm just very
aware of the director doing tricks.
Whereas that scene with Renee and Picard here, it was more
impressive that it was just the 2 of them acting and Jonathan said
nope, yeah, keep the camera still or maybe just move it an inch to
the left just to show we're still here.
There's gentle movements and there's things with depth or field
and it cuts between them a bit more frequently than you would do
in 90s trek.
It's still impressive and stylish, but it is just letting the
actors do their thing.
And that's the most important scene in the episode.
And I think it's really good.
This episode, I think, encapsulates to quite well, actually.
I think we did quite a good pick to for like the house style or
two, which is, do you know what?
It is flawed.
There are plotting issues within the episode and the season.
It's full of great moments and it has great characters that you
want to hang out with. and it is impressively executed.
All right, it's the end of the episode.
It's time for us to find out where we're going next.
This was my choice, and so the randomiser is in your hands, Joe
what are you going to do?
What's, you know, if your cliche is or rather your, the joke that
we do now because you don't pick enterprise anymore, but your kink
is, just wait till next week. choosing enterprise.
What's my ink with the randomiser?
Just pressing all the buttons.
Then you're not gonna be disappointed today.
It could be anything.
The whole length and breadth.
For some reason, I've kept the movies in as well, but we won't be
doing a movie.
Okay.
Oh, we won't be doing this one either, but it's worth mentioning.
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season 3, episode 16
Blood Fever.
Now, uh, too much, Tom Paris.
It's about B'lana getting the Pomfara, right.
She takes it off of Shuvok, but then it becomes all about Tom
Paris given her permission to fuck him.
Of course.
Yuck.
Yeah, no, let's not have that.
Let's go somewhere.
Oh, okay.
Your random Star Trek Duty Face 9 episode is season four, episode
23 to the deaf.
Now that's the, obviously, the reappearance of the Iconian
Gateway.
It's a big sort of Jemhadar episode, the 1st appearance of Jeffrey
Coombs as Wei Yoon, where they kill him off.
Ooh, I'll let you decide on that.
I'm happy to press again.
I'm kind of intrigued.
And, um, Yeah, it does give us things to talk about.
I didn't know that Jeffrey Coombes came in quite so late as that.
So he's right at the end. of series four.
There's a wonderful quote where they watched the rushes and went
oh, what did we do when he shot?
I mean, it's directed by LeVar as well.
It's got quite a lot of action on it and location work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, we did...
Deep Space 9 last time.
But remember, not too long ago, we did 2 consecutive weeks of
lower decks.
So I think that we can probably afford to go back and have another
look at another later era of Deep Space 9.
I promise you this.
It's full of Gemadal.
So latex stocks were high.
Excellent.
Well, that's what you expect from Deep Space 9, is it?
I'm mostly there for the laz eggs.
Okay, you fancy a bloody battle?
By the iconi in the gateway?
Let's do it.
Yep.
Yeah.
Okay, awesome.
Let's do it.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social
media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 24th of June 2025 and released on
the 27th of June.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9 to the death.
I don't know what I think about that one.
I haven't seen it for ages.
To the death to the death.
Well, I've got new better versions of Deep Space 9, so I can, oh
no, I don't.
What did I get better versions of?
I've got better versions of Picard so that I could get a better
screenshot.
I think I'm actually convinced now that the screenshot that I
chose for Picard is too late, is too early in that shot and it
should really be the very...
Yeah, with the leg with the light, all of the flares.
Like, you know, like I chose from just before the lens flare came
in, um, co-starring.
Cute waiter.
Alexander Chen. officially gets out of it.
It gets one BM from Jamma.
Uh, to the death or this?
To the deaf.
Well, I'll see what he gives this.
Oh, no, I'm too scared.
Look, he's so mean.
He's so mean about...
You know, I have huge reservations, but I'm much kinder.
It's still good telling.
Star Trek to do what it's always done before, I think, is the
problem.
You don't want to know.
One.
Two.
But it's still less than a bam.
So less than a bam.
But I mean, it had, doesn't it get like 3 extra stars just for the
song?
Yes.
I would give it an extra, at least one extra star.
I'll give it an extra star for the song.
Well, he only does four.
Yeah, three.
Three stars for the song.
So 6.5 out of four. that's perfectly reasonable.
What an intriguing rating system you have.
I never put things out of numbers until, unless someone tells me
that their podcast requires it, that they have an algorithm where
they have to kind of add up everyone's numbers.
You know what I might do, Nathan.
I might actually do some proper research for the next episode.
I might try and figure out if I can find out some things about the
Iconians.
Oh, yeah.
Because they don't go into a lot of detail.
There's just a gateway there where it's so funny as well because I
think I seem to remember they've got all like the stock planets of
Deep Space 9 that it's sort of zaps between, but it's all the
match shots that they've done since it's the 1st episode.
Of course.
Including the angel one planet.
I think that's there as well.
But is the, is the Iconians like, are they, is that...
The Iconian Gateway, wait, is that in contagion?
It is in contagion.
Is it the one where there's 22 datas, you know, where he's sort of
going across the...
I think contagion is the one where, um, is it Carolyn Seymour's in
it?
Carolyn Seymour does 2 turns as a Romulan sub-commander.
One is face of the enemy and the other one's in season 2 of Star
Trek, the Next Generation, an episode called Contagion.
Maybe there are 2 daters.
I can't remember.
It's about a computer virus that gets that comes through the the
portal.
It destroys the other galaxy class starship, the Yamamoso, like it
explodes.
Um, And it, it, there's a Romulan thing there.
I mean it's a very forgettable series 2 episode.
I haven't seen it for a long time.
I just remember this one.
It's a rogue group of Gemadar that have gained access to the
gateway and that's why they have to go after them.
So they team up with, you know, the Jemadar from the Dominion to
go after them and murder them.
That's why they have a massive battle at the end with...
It looks like a very hot day.
I just remember it's really sunny when they shoot it.
But it's only in those 2 episodes.
I thought the Iconian gateway. like they must get mentioned
elsewhere.
There does get a mention in, oh, there's an Iconians.
No, there's a there's some reference to it.
You know where I'll be able to find out something about it.
Andre Bormanis is.
Science, technology books.
He'll have something about the gateway in there, I'm sure.
So remember that gateway that gets them to Nepenthe in Picard
series one?
So they're on the board cube, and they get to the gateway, and
little, uh, Elanor stays behind to kind of defend them while
Picard and Soji head off to Nepenthe, uh, and they travel a long
distance.
And then we discover that it's technology that the Borg have
assimilated from the horrible people in prime factors.
Do you know what I mean?
Who had the technology to take them?
Night years forward, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's where that came from.
Which I just think is great because those people are such
fucking...
That guy with a South African accent.
Captain Janeware, yeah.
Yeah, whatever accent he's doing the accent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he gets, so presumably he's a Borg now, which is a happy
ending for us anyway.
They forget nothing.
No.