WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:21:21

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back aboard Deep Space 9 this week for series one

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episode 17.

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It's the Forsaken, which was 1st broadcast on the 23rd of May, 1993

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which is just over 3 months after tapestry.

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Oh, after tapestry.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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93.

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God, you feel old?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. right.

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This episode is 32 years old.

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Oh, God.

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I'm visibly crying before your eyes.

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Terrible, just shocking.

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So, Pillar is involved in the teleplay here and it's based on a

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story by someone else.

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And Pillar says he's quoted on memory alpha is saying that what

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they were looking for at this point in series one is kind of day

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in the life stories.

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So this is not a story with a strong central idea.

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It's a story with 3 fairly light subplots.

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It's got an A plot, a B plot, and a C plot.

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And I think that if the show was mostly like this, it would be a

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bit tiresome.

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But I have to say that I really enjoyed this episode.

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So I watched this twice in close succession, because I enjoyed it

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so much the 1st time.

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I thought, okay, hang on.

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Maybe I'll just enjoy Mrs. Troy so much that I need to go back and

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try this.

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No, I enjoyed it more the 2nd time.

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Maybe because I knew what was coming.

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Day in the life of D Space 9 works for me because I love being on

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D Space 9 and I love being with these people.

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I've said it a 1000000 times.

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They do this a couple of times a year, don't they?

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They do what's happening on the station today.

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ABC.

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So they do take this forward.

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I think they get better at bringing the plots together because

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you're right, none of these are related.

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There is an essential theme.

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If this was modern trek, there would be something running through

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these, wouldn't there?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, so there's a there's one of the plots, I'm going to call

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it the C plot, or maybe it's the B plot.

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Lets not fight, though.

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The puppy?

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Yeah, the puppy one.

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So something happens to the ship's computer, and that causes the

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issue that traps Laxana and Odo in the lift, and it also causes

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the fire that threatens Julian and the ambassadors, the federation

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ambassadors that he's escorting around the station.

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So they are kind of linked together causally, but not really.

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Tenuously, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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But one thing, you know, feeds into the other plots, but

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thematically they're not sort of related in any way.

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And each plot kind of goes on unimpeded by the fact that, you know

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the station's on fire and stuff like that in the other plot.

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So, um, it's very light.

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Each plot is sort of fairly thin, and I think the central plot

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isn't the plot that gets the title.

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I think the central plot is Odo and Black Sana trapped in a lift

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together.

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And for me, that was the highlight of the episode.

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Oh, by a mile.

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And Pillar also says he's quoted their own memory alpha is saying

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they wanted to save some money at this point as well, which is why

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they wanted a day in the life of Deep Space 9 because the standing

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stats are always there.

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So he thought, well, fine.

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I'll throw 2 people in a lift.

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That will be cheap.

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But it leans into what I think is, and DS9 gets this better than

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any of the other 90s treks, and that is when you put 2 people

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together in a room.

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I know it's cheap, but it can re rewards. duet wolves.

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They do it time and time again with 2 characters.

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The wire, you know.

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And the result is, is you learn so much about the 2 characters, you

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know, there's sort of comedy witty lines here between, oh, don't

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Mrs. Troy, she's trying to fuck him in the lift or whatever she's

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trying to do.

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She goes.

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I think the quote goes.

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She goes from being the last person you would ever want to be

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stuck in a lift with to the best person you could possibly be

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stuck.

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And that's in the in the space of about 10 minutes and 3 scenes.

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And that's really good character writing.

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It's so great, isn't it?

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So we've done a couple of episodes with Magell already.

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So we did manhunt, which was just...

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Really shockingly bad.

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And we've done another appearance of hers.

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I think her last appearance on Deep Space 9, which was the Muse.

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And I remember thinking that that was really great and coming away

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from it, actually kind of sorry, that they didn't follow up on the

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relationship between Odo and Luxana.

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And I kind of feel that same way here because I think it's

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extremely great.

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It's so well done.

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So the 1st time that she visits him in his office, she kind of

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pushes him up the wall and really kind of forces herself on him

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and he's terrified.

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It rolls off the tongue.

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She's awful.

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Like, she's really awful.

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And so it's it's such a surprise that she is so sympathetic and so

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sensitive and so kind and so understanding and so willing to

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listen to him.

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And he opens up in a way like this is episode 17 and he hasn't had

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that much of a chance to open up about himself and his history and

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we learn a lot about him and what he's like and why he is the way

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he is.

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And she's such a good listener and so able to kind of understand

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and sympathise with him that I actually found those scenes

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incredibly moving, like really quite moving.

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They really are.

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The bit where she, and we will get there, she shows him her wig.

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That sequence is unbelievably moving and one last quote from

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Pillar.

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He says those scenes in the lift will be spoken about for a long

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time.

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He goes, I'm not sure about the rest, but those will be.

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I told a couple of people that we were doing this episode this

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week.

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I just said the forsaken.

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And they went, oh my god, Mrs. Troy's wig.

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And they just knew it straight away.

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So that bit really stuck in people.

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And it's just how I also found really moving the bit where they're

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talking about parties and he says how much he hates parties.

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And then she goes, you know what, come to one of mine.

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I'm going to make sure everyone's there to look after you.

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She's just so generous with it.

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Yeah.

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Remember, he's narrating a party where he's forced to do party

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tricks for the amusement of the other guests.

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And she doesn't say, I'll make sure everyone looks after you.

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She says, I'll make sure they're there to entertain you.

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And like, it's so warm.

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It's so good.

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Like, she's just tremendous.

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And they've really landed on what she's good at because she's

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auntie-made. she?

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Yeah.

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Like, she's Auntie Maime.

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She's really funny.

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She's really big.

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She's shockingly bad and manhunt is hugely embarrassing.

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We get some of that hair.

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We do get a bit of D. The big auntie maime thing, which I think is

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at its height in cost of living.

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Like, she's really good at that.

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She's really, like, I think that's actually quite a fun episode.

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It's not, you know, it's pretty thin.

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Oh, we do that one.

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Oh, you are.

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It's really fun.

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She's really fun in it.

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And then what they start to do is they start to give her, they do

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start to give her proper acting job.

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So even half of life. you remember that?

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Well, so Dark Page is not yet.

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It's coming after this episode.

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So she'll go back to the Enterprise for Dark Page.

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But before that, she did half her life with David Ogden Steers

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remember that?

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And Michelle Forbes. that's some proper acting from her.

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And Dark Page is her, but she's grieving and she's heartbroken and

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stuff.

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And like she's great at that.

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She's really good at that.

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But what I really like here is that they don't put her through the

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ringer.

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She's kind of in control the whole time, and we just get to see

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what a kind, thoughtful, and empathetic person she is. and it's

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wonderful They've grown her up though, right?

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Because they do take her on her own terms here.

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She's still sexually voracious and, you know, extremely confident

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in her pursuit of men.

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And specifically Odo, when she says, I've never been with a

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shapeshifter, you know.

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I mean, we were all thinking it, right?

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Let's be honest.

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But you think back to Manhunt, where she was so childishly

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characterised here, there's such maturity in how she's

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characterised in that lift.

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Yeah, they just got it.

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And there should have been more of her, I think.

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This Mrs. Troy.

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It took a little while to get here.

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And so we had to go through haven and bullshit like that.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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You see, like Renee's older than the rest of the cast, isn't he?

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Like he's a fair bit older.

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And I actually think the 2 of them, like the 2 of them are, you

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know, I don't know, are they a similar age?

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like they're certainly, I don't suspect so, yes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Although you can't tell with Miguel because she dresses so sexy, so

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young in this.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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She brings her tits in one scene and then some.

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She does.

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And obviously Renee's slathered in a layer of sort of featureless

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latex, so it's hard to tell as well.

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But, you know, the 2 of them older and coming to a romance late in

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life, I think is actually really nice.

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And like I said, I was kind of a bit heartbroken by the Muse

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because it's clear that Odo is in love with her at the end of that

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episode.

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And it's clear at the end of this episode that he's heading that

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way.

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Do you know, Cisco says to him at some point early on, you know

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why not just let yourself be caught?

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Why don't you try it?

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Why don't you let yourself be caught?

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And he rules it out.

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I can't help you, Odo.

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He goes.

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Yeah.

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But he is caught.

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I think at the end of the episode, Renee's performance makes it

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quite clear that he has been core at the end.

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And so this is, you know, one of Deep Space Nine's dead ends, one

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of its roads not taken.

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And I'm a bit sad about that because I think it would have been

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very nice.

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And I love Kira and Odo together.

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I think they're great, but I think this would have been special as

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well.

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I suspect it's for 2 reasons.

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One, it's because the Muse did not go down well with either the

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audience or the creative team.

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So I think maybe they thought more, maybe we're spent here with

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Mrs. Troy.

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Two, Major L Barrett was quite vocal that she did not like the

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direction that the show went in when it started getting war heavy

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because that's not what Gene would have wanted.

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So maybe they sort of parted terms amicably, but for the best.

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Yeah.

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But for whatever reason, what they did do.

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And like we're ignoring fascinations because I haven't seen it for

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a while and I gather it's embarrassing.

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I mean, it's embarrassing.

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It was fabulous as well, though.

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They definitely follow it up on lower decks in an episode that I

254
00:11:28.740 --> 00:11:29.340
think is pretty great.

255
00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.820
The exchange, you're not at all what I expected.

256
00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:36.539
And then saying, no one's ever paid me a greater compliment.

257
00:11:36.659 --> 00:11:37.799
Yes, isn't that nice?

258
00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:39.539
That almost brought me to tears.

259
00:11:39.659 --> 00:11:40.139
And you know me.

260
00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:44.639
I'm a tough nut to crack watching TV, but I was sort of sobbing up

261
00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:45.600
a bit at that point.

262
00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:47.039
Yeah.

263
00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:50.039
Yeah, because she gets seen as well in a way that I think is

264
00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:50.519
beautiful.

265
00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:53.460
And, like, you know, we talk about, and it'll come, the scene

266
00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:55.980
where she takes her wig off and it's just her normal hair and it's

267
00:11:55.980 --> 00:11:56.879
just Migel's hair.

268
00:11:56.940 --> 00:12:01.200
You know, like it's just Magell there and she's beautiful.

269
00:12:01.259 --> 00:12:03.120
You know, she's beautiful.

270
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:06.120
She's beautiful when she puts the wig on and the sexy dress and

271
00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.100
when she's being vampi and over the top.

272
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:08.700
She's beautiful.

273
00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:13.019
But when she's just being quiet and honest and understanding and

274
00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:15.299
kind, she's equally beautiful in a different way.

275
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.059
She says, I look ordinary.

276
00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:19.799
I've never cared to be ordinary.

277
00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:22.559
Gosh, it's so it's such good writing.

278
00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:25.379
You can tell pillar is all over this script.

279
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.059
Oh, absolutely he is.

280
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.960
He just has a really great way of just getting into the heads of

281
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:32.700
these people, I think.

282
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:33.360
Yeah.

283
00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:33.960
Yeah.

284
00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:35.759
I think he does a good job with Julian too.

285
00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:38.639
I mean, his spot's quite thin and so maybe we'll talk about it

286
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.879
while the episode's going. ambassadors of unhappy.

287
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:47.580
But he's trying to give Julian comedy lines to see if that's

288
00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:49.080
something that he's capable of doing.

289
00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:50.759
And Sid doesn't quite land it.

290
00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:55.080
But he does a pretty good job and I think he's quite funny in

291
00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:56.759
places in this episode as well.

292
00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:58.919
It's so strange, isn't it?

293
00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:03.059
I was thinking about the day in the life sort of episodes and I

294
00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:04.980
think it's something that T and G rocked as well.

295
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.820
Like stuff like day to day, that has like 3 plots in it and like

296
00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:11.220
but just what's happening around the ship, you know, Beverly

297
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:12.960
teaching it to dance and loads of fun stuff.

298
00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:16.440
I don't know if Voyager could put off an episode like this.

299
00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:21.299
No, because the characters aren't as likeable, perhaps.

300
00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:24.000
Or it's all mixed, aren't they?

301
00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:28.080
If you are focussing on the right characters, maybe they could do

302
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:32.159
it, but I can't even think of a time where they've tried to do a

303
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.720
day in the life on Voyager.

304
00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:36.240
And I may say something about that cast.

305
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.259
Or about the that show's approach as well, that it wants to do

306
00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:41.399
high concept things.

307
00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:46.259
And I think that what they end up landing on with these day in the

308
00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.159
life episodes in Deep Space 9 is giving at least one of the plots

309
00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:55.500
a kind of clearer, more interesting focus, something that's a bit

310
00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:58.500
more science fiction or a bit more about one of the cultures or

311
00:13:58.500 --> 00:13:59.159
something like that.

312
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:00.840
Or very funny.

313
00:14:00.899 --> 00:14:05.100
Such as the no J consortium, stealth sealing, stembolts.

314
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:06.539
You know, the great river.

315
00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:07.860
We've done them all so far.

316
00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:08.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

317
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.960
Yeah, that's right. that's right Well, I mean, I'm ready to be

318
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.740
tickled, you?

319
00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.860
I definitely am. will count us in.

320
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:24.059
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

321
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:28.919
Establishing shop Deep Space nine.

322
00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:32.340
That's the most officially interesting thing you're going to see

323
00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:32.879
all episode.

324
00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:35.879
Oh, no, except for a little bit of CGI towards the end.

325
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:45.000
And so this is starting with the plot, the Julian plot, where

326
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.059
what's happened is that there are some ambassadors on board the

327
00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:52.379
station and Cisco has just told Julian he has to look after them.

328
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:55.860
And they're all difficult in sort of different ways.

329
00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:01.259
This woman is called Taxco or something.

330
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.080
I think she's called Tesco, isn't it?

331
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:05.399
doesn't she say Tesco at the end?

332
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:07.019
I thought it was product placement.

333
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:08.580
It's not text Tesco.

334
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.419
She doesn't do another Star Trek, even though she really looks

335
00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:15.840
like someone who's played a Star Trek alien quite a lot.

336
00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:19.620
The Bolian, of course, you'll recognise from Star Trek 1st contact

337
00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:26.100
because he's Admiral Hayes. and he's in he's in 2 more Voyager

338
00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:27.960
episodes as Admiral Hayes as well.

339
00:15:28.139 --> 00:15:32.340
Um, the Vulcan...

340
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:39.779
The Vulcan is a Croller from the episode 1st contact, the

341
00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:42.779
conservative guy from 1st contact, the episode.

342
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.120
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

343
00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:49.019
And he's also in false prophets and he's a Vulcan doctor in

344
00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:49.799
stigma.

345
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:53.519
So we've actually seen him already on USTP.

346
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:56.639
I know there, this is pure sitcom, right?

347
00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:58.500
But all 3 of these ambassadors.

348
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.799
I've met somebody with all of their eccentricities.

349
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:05.879
The woman that's never happy, the man that's always trying to give

350
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.100
advice or knows a better way of doing things.

351
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.820
And then the one that always asks questions, you know, even though

352
00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:12.720
you want to go home early.

353
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.720
I recognise all these people.

354
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:18.179
I think the woman's my favourite though.

355
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.740
She's really funny.

356
00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:24.840
Her thing about the disgusting Ferengi sex program.

357
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:31.440
I have to sleep one more night with those Cardassian gargoyles

358
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.120
facing me from the bed.

359
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:35.519
Oh, here's Mrs. Troy.

360
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.059
And so it turns out that Mrs. Troy is one of the ambassadors

361
00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:42.539
although she'll be hived off into her own plot.

362
00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:46.259
I like the fact that she accessorises to the wig.

363
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.000
I never wear this hair without it.

364
00:16:48.539 --> 00:16:51.120
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

365
00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:58.379
So they're giving Julian these sort of English sitcom lines where

366
00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:03.000
he's kind of like baffled and slightly harried and pompous posh

367
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:03.960
English guy.

368
00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:09.599
And I think he's doing quite much more likely. in series one like

369
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:13.619
that than he is when he's being arrogant and yeah, everyone's sort

370
00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:15.119
of rubbling their eyes at him all the time.

371
00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:16.319
Oh I love this.

372
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:19.380
I know where it hurts the most, you little troll.

373
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.819
She's advocating strip searching everyone in the bar, which I

374
00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:28.440
would have loved to have seen attempted.

375
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:29.160
Oh yes, please.

376
00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:31.920
I mean, will you take a look at her?

377
00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:33.960
She looks so gorgeous doesn't she?

378
00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.819
She's fabulous, isn't she?

379
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:40.079
And so in comes Odo and meets her for the 1st time.

380
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:45.900
Um, and like, he obviously just solves the problem immediately

381
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:48.000
because he's Odo, and of course, he does.

382
00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:51.240
I think she's a bit too impressed given he just grabs older the

383
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.299
1st person and goes, yeah, it's you. empty out your pockets.

384
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.539
No, so he does, he does know something.

385
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:03.240
Like he, so he, she's trying to detect guilt, but she can't in

386
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.440
great betasoid tradition.

387
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:06.660
Beta souls cannot read Ferengi's.

388
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

389
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:12.000
And so he uses that as a clue to work out who it is who's actually

390
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:12.720
stolen it.

391
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:16.500
Odo, of course, manages to throw in an insult to Quark while

392
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:17.339
sticking up for him.

393
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.220
But he takes it as a compliment.

394
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.740
Thank you very much.

395
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:29.099
I'm sorry, Admiral Satay, but your costumes are nothing to Mrs

396
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:29.640
Troy.

397
00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:30.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

398
00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:34.200
Look at all the accessories on. flowers and all sorts bouncing off

399
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:34.380
it.

400
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.079
Do we see these aliens ever again?

401
00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:37.799
No.

402
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:40.019
Doctrarians or whatever they're called.

403
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:43.079
Presumably, presumably they have the head in a cupboard somewhere

404
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:45.180
and they bring it out at some other point.

405
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.960
So, Nathan, have a look.

406
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:50.819
Can you see the poles wobbling behind them?

407
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.440
They haven't fixed that one down from me.

408
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:53.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

409
00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:56.819
I think that was supposed to be robust metal, you know, those

410
00:18:56.819 --> 00:18:57.420
pulse.

411
00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:59.039
Yeah, maybe.

412
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.680
This is what I say to you on every podcast.

413
00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:06.539
How perfectly brilliant are you?

414
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:12.539
So she's intrigued and this is, you know, my thing where we end on

415
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:14.220
the most important line of the episode.

416
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:15.059
Yeah.

417
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:15.539
Yeah.

418
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.019
Yeah, yeah.

419
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.200
And so I want to know everything there is to know about your

420
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.160
security chief.

421
00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:24.000
Yeah, and so what it looks like is it's going to be a sort of sort

422
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.079
of sex comedy thing where she's inappropriate and she's chasing

423
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.400
after...

424
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:31.859
You could almost be rolling your eyes at this point going, Yeah

425
00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:32.940
we've done this with Picard.

426
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:33.900
We know this goes.

427
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:37.200
Nulling us into our full sense of security.

428
00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.339
Hence why Odo says you're not at all what I expected because the

429
00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:45.059
plot was heading towards doing manhunt again, I think.

430
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.539
Oh, and I just love hanging out in Quarks, you know.

431
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:52.680
Any episode that opens up in the bar is wonderful for me.

432
00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:58.079
I mean, I think it's, it's, I talked to you before, didn't I, about

433
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:02.819
how she was denied that role on the original series, originally

434
00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:05.279
and then took the consolation prize?

435
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.500
I just think now there's what?

436
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.299
15, maybe Mrs. Troy episodes across TNG and DS9.

437
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:13.619
There's quite a lot.

438
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:14.640
Like I feel...

439
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:16.440
They gave back to her.

440
00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:20.819
I think Gene, you know, said you were hard done by and, you know

441
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:22.619
you deserve a big role.

442
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.420
I think she's somebody.

443
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.019
I do think she was divisive to start off with only because she was

444
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:31.200
so over the top in those early TNG episodes.

445
00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:32.700
Fuck me.

446
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.579
Like Q, she brings a bit of life to that ship.

447
00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.140
Every time she turns up.

448
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.039
Yeah.

449
00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:39.839
It's a little bit like you, isn't it?

450
00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:43.559
Like, you is stiff and awkward as we observed last time, you know

451
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:47.880
in the 1st couple of episodes that he's in, in encounter at

452
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.900
Farpoint and in Hyde and Q. you know it's a strange performance.

453
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.500
And it takes them a while to write to Majel strengths as well.

454
00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:00.059
This does also prove as well you don't need Deanna with Mrs. Troy

455
00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:02.400
for her to work in an episode because it's the 1st time it's

456
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:02.579
happened.

457
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

458
00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:07.200
Although I do love their I love their chemistry, that's whoever.

459
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.519
It's pretty great, isn't it?

460
00:21:08.579 --> 00:21:12.599
I just love that, you know, ship's councillor's log.

461
00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:14.519
My mother is on board.

462
00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:18.839
You can figure it out, roll it on.

463
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:19.920
It's just saying it.

464
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.400
Right.

465
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:23.460
I thought I was in for a bit of trouble with this C plot with the

466
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:27.000
puppy because there's so much techno babble, isn't there?

467
00:21:27.059 --> 00:21:28.440
Yeah, yeah.

468
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:32.880
I don't think this is very good and it's resolved by.

469
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:37.980
It's a plot where everything is just them talking in ops, you

470
00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:38.160
know.

471
00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:43.680
The, the, like trapping Odo in the lift and then the explosion in

472
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:48.900
the habitat ring, those are both, um, you know, those are both

473
00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:52.440
part of this plot, but they're primarily, you know, things to

474
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:53.640
motivate the other plot.

475
00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:56.160
But otherwise we're just standing around talking.

476
00:21:56.220 --> 00:22:00.839
This Bajoran woman should have been Nila from in, now they do

477
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:02.099
bring in Nila early.

478
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.859
So do you remember, she's the one that tries to assassinate Brile

479
00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:09.720
and they introduce her in duet and then she's established for in

480
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:10.619
the hands of a prophet.

481
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.500
So they do a sort of there's 2 episodes.

482
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.420
But there's a Bajoran here.

483
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:16.980
Man, they just weren't thinking ahead enough.

484
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.299
Like they should have done...

485
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:19.859
So she was proper.

486
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:20.759
I mean, she's good.

487
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.740
This is her only episode, isn't it?

488
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:28.079
So she's Anara and she's here to give O'Brien someone to talk to.

489
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:32.940
They just look so like, I mean, the uniform and the hair.

490
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.700
Come on, let them look pressy.

491
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:37.140
I mean, she's probably quite a pretty woman.

492
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.680
Look at her.

493
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.579
Yeah.

494
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

495
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:42.480
It's pretty plain, isn't it?

496
00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:48.240
It's very, like, she kind of fades into the Cardassian gray walls

497
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.160
a bit in that...

498
00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:52.740
I've been looking at the historical records of the Starship

499
00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:54.779
Discovery and everyone's so sexy on that.

500
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:55.440
What happened?

501
00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:57.480
Why do we all look so terrible?

502
00:22:57.539 --> 00:23:01.079
Yeah, that's right. 100 years ago.

503
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:05.039
Now, this is something we've done with O'Brien a bit where he's

504
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.099
very particular about his work and if it isn't working to peak

505
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:08.759
efficiency.

506
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:10.440
He has a bit of meltdown.

507
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.980
I do like Cisco coming in and going, oh, sounds fine, shit. you

508
00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:14.640
know, it's working.

509
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:15.660
Who cares, you know?

510
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.500
Except that he walks that back because he realises that if it

511
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.180
matters to O'Brien, then it matters.

512
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:24.839
And so he's initially dismissive, but then he decides to actually

513
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.900
say look, you need to do what you need to do.

514
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.700
And I thought that that was pretty good.

515
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.799
I think, like if this plot has any value at all, It's mostly

516
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.759
because it gives us the chance to see Colin do some acting.

517
00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:41.160
What's the scope does here?

518
00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:42.359
He sees the ambassadors.

519
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:47.039
He turns around with a massive sigh and then passes a grin on his

520
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.559
face and turns around and says, oh, hello, everyone.

521
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:53.579
The amount of times I do that at work when I was like, oh, God.

522
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:54.960
Why?

523
00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:55.559
How can I?

524
00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:57.960
That was pretty great, wasn't it?

525
00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:01.200
That was absolutely performative stuff from Avery.

526
00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:04.500
It's just like no one is going to be in any doubt about what I'm

527
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:05.099
feeling here.

528
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:06.000
It was pretty good.

529
00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:10.079
But I totally believe, you know, when he says, Curzon used to give

530
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:13.259
me these dreadful assignments, you know, and I used to do them.

531
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.480
Now I'm giving them to you because I'm in charge.

532
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:19.559
Well, let me tell you, as a manager, I used to sometimes make

533
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:23.460
colleagues do things that I used to have to do all the time.

534
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:30.059
But, but when he justifies himself, he says, you know, you could

535
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:33.420
make connections here, it might be good one day to have a

536
00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:35.400
federation ambassador on your side.

537
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:38.880
And of course, the outcome of this plot is that he ends up with 3

538
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.720
federation ambassadors who are impressed by him and grateful to

539
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:42.900
him.

540
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:46.259
And so it does work out the way that Cisco says...

541
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:47.099
That's where he's going.

542
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.200
Right. a full conclusion.

543
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:49.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

544
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.339
There is one surprise in one of the plots, but it ain't that one.

545
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.079
No, yeah.

546
00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.200
That, I think there is a surprise in the way that that plot's

547
00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:58.500
told.

548
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.799
Like it makes a choice, which I think is actually pretty good.

549
00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:05.339
It's probably a money saving.

550
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.279
Is that Romulan quite as gray as he is?

551
00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:09.720
He doesn't look well, does he?

552
00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:10.559
He's a Vulcan.

553
00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:11.160
He doesn't care.

554
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:12.660
Well, he does he does look quite ill.

555
00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:14.279
He does.

556
00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:15.839
Oh, look at Kira.

557
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.940
Kira's season one hair. my god.

558
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.200
It's American lady hair, but she definitely has.

559
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:23.700
Fluffy, isn't it?

560
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:24.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

561
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:25.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

562
00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:31.740
Oh, what maybe die as well was Bolian going, oh, is that it about

563
00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:32.400
the world?

564
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:34.019
I thought it was going to be more impressive than Matt.

565
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:35.759
More impressive special effect than that?

566
00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:40.740
Julian should have gone, walk, I watch Babylon 5 then.

567
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:41.759
There's really shit.

568
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.140
That's right We paid a lot of money for that, and we will see it

569
00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:49.019
500 times during the run of this show.

570
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:53.880
Why does Cisco arranged for the meeting at 4 o'clock in the

571
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:54.119
morning?

572
00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:55.680
I don't know.

573
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.519
I was thinking that too.

574
00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:59.700
I think he's thinking, nah, they won't get out for that.

575
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:00.359
They won't come.

576
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:01.259
Yeah they'll cancel.

577
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.119
Straight out the door going.

578
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:04.799
No, I'm not setting the alarm for half free.

579
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:05.519
Jesus Christ.

580
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:06.539
That's right.

581
00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:09.240
Oh my god, here we go.

582
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:14.460
Odo's doing his work, tracking intergalactic malefactors.

583
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:16.440
In comes Mrs. Troy.

584
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:17.759
It's the Australian series, isn't it?

585
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:19.140
This costume.

586
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.220
Oh my word.

587
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:24.599
I mean, so do you know what it reminded me of?

588
00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:28.380
It reminds me of one of Deanna's costumes in Man of the People.

589
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:30.299
It is, isn't it?

590
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.039
Is it the same one?

591
00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:35.160
I don't know, but it's that sort of thing where it's mostly kind

592
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:40.259
of, you know, like mesh with things strategically covering her

593
00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:40.680
breasts.

594
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:43.319
I might do a comparison afterwards, you know.

595
00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.420
I would make that the same costume.

596
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:47.400
Oh, she looks smoking hot in it.

597
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:48.359
That's all I'm going to say.

598
00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:49.200
She looks great.

599
00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:50.339
And the red hair.

600
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:54.599
And, you know, just the idea too that we established, because she

601
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:59.039
doesn't wear coloured wigs, like when she turns up next time in

602
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:02.519
Dark Page, and obviously that would be ridiculous because that's a

603
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:03.720
more dramatic role.

604
00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:07.680
But it's not established that she's wearing a wig in the show

605
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.980
except in that 1st scene where she says when I wear this hair.

606
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.940
And so they're establishing the wig because it's important at the

607
00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:17.039
highlight, you know, at the climax of the episode.

608
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:18.599
These lines, Nathan.

609
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:19.319
Oh my god.

610
00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:20.160
Oh, no.

611
00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:22.440
It has a lyrical quality to it.

612
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:25.920
And then she leans into him.

613
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:27.660
It rolls off the tongue.

614
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.579
I hear you're a shapeshifter, yes.

615
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.079
I've never been with a shapeshifter.

616
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:36.420
And it goes, bin with?

617
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:37.079
What do you mean?

618
00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:38.160
What you mean?

619
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.880
It is funny, isn't it?

620
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:43.140
It's genuine.

621
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.319
Like, in a way that, you know, when Picard was resisting her.

622
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:47.519
That just wasn't funny at all.

623
00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:48.660
No.

624
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.880
No, and I think why is it?

625
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:54.299
Is it because Odo's a little bit more...

626
00:27:54.299 --> 00:28:00.240
He's more innocent and more serious and he's a sitcom character in

627
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:00.900
a sense as well.

628
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.480
You know, Picard is, is just, you know, he's sick of her or

629
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:11.940
annoyed by her or whereas Odo's feeling properly threatened.

630
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.180
I like her reaction to, he flees and she just smiles.

631
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.000
Yeah, she's she's on the hunt. right?

632
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:18.240
right?

633
00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:19.559
I've got your scent now, mate.

634
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.119
That's right.

635
00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:22.920
And that's where we think this is going, obviously.

636
00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:26.279
Look at that high angle shot of Ops.

637
00:28:26.339 --> 00:28:29.400
It's just so much more interesting to look at than the Enterprise

638
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:30.119
Bridge, I think.

639
00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:32.460
It is, I think.

640
00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:35.460
I just wish it wasn't quite as gray as it was, you know.

641
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.579
They do seem to think gray is a very pretty colour, in 90s true.

642
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:40.259
I don't know what some reason. what the fucking archer's doing

643
00:28:40.259 --> 00:28:40.799
there too.

644
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:42.240
I think that's kind of terrible.

645
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:44.819
I suppose it's something, but does look a bit terrible.

646
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.119
I just like the levels because it means they can shoot up and down

647
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.160
and they can just do more injuries.

648
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.099
I kind of like the sense that you don't really get a proper sense

649
00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:54.480
of the layout of ops.

650
00:28:54.539 --> 00:28:58.259
Like, presumably you do if you watch it all the time, but, you

651
00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:00.240
know, there's lots of different interesting shots.

652
00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:03.119
You know, there's things happening in the background and stuff.

653
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.700
It's not like, you know, those terrible high shots of the

654
00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:07.559
enterprise bridge, which looks so bad.

655
00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:11.099
I'm starting to love, you know, these scenes where Odo comes to

656
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:11.700
visit Cisco.

657
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.799
Do you remember his way when they were singing together?

658
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:15.480
And now in this one.

659
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:18.539
Have you ever thought about letting Mrs. Troy catch you?

660
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:19.140
Odo?

661
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:23.579
Yeah, well, like I said, and I think I only realised it when I was

662
00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:25.799
saying it just now, she does catch him.

663
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:27.539
I think that scene is really good.

664
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:33.059
And it's a good bit of advice from him too. let yourself go.

665
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:35.039
He goes, well, she's extremely grateful.

666
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:36.180
What's wrong with that?

667
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.539
The manner of which she shows her gratitude expresses her

668
00:29:39.539 --> 00:29:40.200
gratitude.

669
00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:43.920
Oh, fuck this, like a Winoni trace hound.

670
00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:44.819
All right.

671
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:49.500
That's a very unflattering simile.

672
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.980
When Cisco smiles and talks about romance.

673
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.859
Do you remember when he greeted Cassidy at the airlock with the

674
00:29:55.859 --> 00:29:57.420
flowers in the baseball episode?

675
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:01.559
Man, he's so when he's in love and talking about love. wonderful.

676
00:30:01.619 --> 00:30:02.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

677
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:08.819
Oh, the makeup's struggling against Renee doing all these facial

678
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:09.660
expressions, isn't it?

679
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.839
I really like the fact as well that he's not, obviously, not

680
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:16.920
conventionally handsome Odo, and that doesn't bother Mrs. Troy one

681
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:17.339
bit.

682
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:21.839
No, I mean, she seems to like him because he's very competent and

683
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.960
very, well, she says something about opposites attracting as well

684
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:28.500
you know, like, remember Timmerson?

685
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.039
Remember David Ogden Steers's character in Half a Life, who's a

686
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:35.700
sort of very bashful, very shy scientist.

687
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:38.640
Michael Ansara in the Muse.

688
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:40.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

689
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:41.460
Yeah.

690
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.140
Who else has she gone after?

691
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.160
Well, Damon Bach.

692
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:45.180
Jesus Christ.

693
00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:48.000
She ain't fussy.

694
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:51.180
But my point there is like she doesn't always, you're thinking

695
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:52.680
TNG.

696
00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:54.839
Picard because he's the man at the top, right?

697
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:58.079
Well, then that would be Cisco as you'd go for here, but yeah

698
00:30:58.079 --> 00:30:58.259
yeah.

699
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.000
Something about Odo interests her.

700
00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:01.440
Yes, yeah.

701
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:05.220
And I think that's genuinely true as well because like she gets

702
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:08.400
him to open up in a way that he doesn't open up to anyone.

703
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:11.640
Like, I don't, you know, like, I can't remember how much we know

704
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.940
about Odo by this point, but I'm guessing the stuff.

705
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.740
Yeah, hardly anything, right?

706
00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:22.140
I mean, there's one point where I feel as if they're pointing

707
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:25.500
forward to the search where it goes, how many of your people are

708
00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:25.680
there?

709
00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:26.759
Oh, I'm the only one so far.

710
00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:28.140
He goes at one more game?

711
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:32.160
They're hanging on to that plot, Fred, for an important moment.

712
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.759
So we've had, is it Vortex, the one where we find out?

713
00:31:37.859 --> 00:31:40.500
Yeah, that's no, that's mid-season.

714
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.059
Yeah, that is...

715
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:43.380
And then there's a man alone.

716
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:47.279
Like that's another Odo one that's like episode 2 or 3 or

717
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:47.519
something.

718
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:49.019
Dismal episode.

719
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.019
That's where all the Bajorans turn on him because he used to work

720
00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:53.819
for the Cardassians. for the Cardassian.

721
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:55.019
But it's really hackney.

722
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:56.700
Whereas Vortex is actually quite touching.

723
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.400
He helps a criminal escape in his daughter at the end.

724
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:00.839
Yeah, it's really enough.

725
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:04.140
He holds the little pendant, which is a bit like a shapeshifter

726
00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:06.059
and he goes, sorry.

727
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:12.299
Just watch the pieces where he comes out of the lift looking both

728
00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.599
ways and then confidently strides off and she spots him

729
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:17.579
immediately and he tries to run back in.

730
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.140
I've always wanted to see an upper pylon.

731
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:24.420
She goes, I love that line.

732
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.519
I love that line so much.

733
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:29.700
Nathan, I might use that on the old bloke, you know.

734
00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:34.680
I have a pile on 3 and she like knocks on the door and then so

735
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:34.859
funny.

736
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.380
Oh, look at this special effect show.

737
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.579
The special effect.

738
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.119
Now, it strikes me that that's pretty fucking dangerous, right?

739
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.799
I've been caught in the water if you lean on the wall.

740
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:48.420
That's right.

741
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.099
Don't touch that wall.

742
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:51.779
Now remember, Nathan.

743
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.720
The station was in a state of disrepair.

744
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:58.319
Maybe the Kardashians destroyed the doors, you know, before they

745
00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:58.500
left.

746
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:01.920
But I mean, those turbo lifts are kind of, you know, they're like

747
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.880
a little platform with a railing rather than an enclosed capsule.

748
00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:08.819
So we never see it from this point of view, but it does seem like

749
00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:09.960
that is kind of dangerous.

750
00:33:10.019 --> 00:33:12.960
I can even remember watching for the 1st time where they get stuck

751
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:14.400
in the neck thinking, where is this going?

752
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:16.859
What is happening in this episode?

753
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.319
And then when it all just unflowers, it's so beautiful.

754
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:20.880
Yeah it's really good.

755
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:25.740
Heroes in full on administrator mode in this episode.

756
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.500
She's showing no character whatsoever, just being very good at her

757
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:28.680
job.

758
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:30.660
Oh, yeah, she's doing her job.

759
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.700
Dax gets the old line, you know.

760
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:34.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

761
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:35.099
Yeah.

762
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.559
Well, again, you know, we'll just beam you out. it'll be fine.

763
00:33:37.619 --> 00:33:41.039
They'll turn up here on the transporter pad that's on top of the

764
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.740
turbo lifting ops. you know nothing happens.

765
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.500
She goes to Odo alone at last.

766
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.640
Suddenly there's this dramatic close-up on Renee's face looking

767
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:51.480
really shocked.

768
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:57.599
Do you like a bit as well, where Kira goes, now don't try

769
00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.559
shapeshift out of there.

770
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:00.480
There's electric bolts all around it, all right?

771
00:34:00.539 --> 00:34:03.359
And then Michelle goes, yeah, besides, it'd be rude.

772
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:05.880
Kira goes, what was that?

773
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:07.859
Odo is forced to say it.

774
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:09.119
It'll be ruse, all right?

775
00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:10.199
Yeah, yeah.

776
00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:12.420
I mean, I actually quite like that, though.

777
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:16.380
I think that, you know, it's him kind of actually realising that

778
00:34:16.380 --> 00:34:19.440
you know, he's, even though this is an unwanted social situation

779
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.320
it is a social situation, he just has to be knives.

780
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:24.179
Nice, you know, like he can't be grumpy.

781
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:25.800
I mean, it's so controlled.

782
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:29.039
I don't think we've established that 16 hours.

783
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:31.320
He has to hold his shape for until this episode.

784
00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:33.659
I think for the purposes of this episode.

785
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.780
But going forward, it's one of those things where they're going

786
00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:37.920
right, well, we've made that decision now.

787
00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:39.539
That's that's Odo now.

788
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:41.699
Oh, I thought that that was known.

789
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.480
Like, I thought that, you know, that's part of his character bio.

790
00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:46.679
I could be wrong.

791
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:48.539
I wonder if it's in my...

792
00:34:48.539 --> 00:34:50.280
Oh, there is...

793
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:50.579
Yeah.

794
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:51.719
I'll have a look.

795
00:34:51.780 --> 00:34:52.559
I've got to do some research.

796
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:53.940
I should have done it before really.

797
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:58.079
Do you know what struck me as the use of the word pale to describe

798
00:34:58.079 --> 00:34:58.980
his bucket?

799
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.099
Like they call it, call it a pail, which is what Americans call a

800
00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:04.019
bucket, and I'd forgotten that that was the word.

801
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:10.260
I like, um, in a minute, Rico, you know, every 16 hours, I turn

802
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:12.659
into a liquid and she just goes, I can swim.

803
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.820
I love that line.

804
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:19.559
That's...

805
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.019
I know what she wants to do with him, essentially.

806
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:22.920
I want to know.

807
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.940
I just imagine she's got quite a big imagination.

808
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.139
I'll just say.

809
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.940
But she's really good in this too, isn't she?

810
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:38.099
Like, we get to rule out that there's danger and she's not going

811
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:39.420
to be a panicky idiot.

812
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:40.739
Like, we'll just rule that out.

813
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.980
This is not going to be about we're trapped in a lift and we're

814
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:45.300
going to suffocate or anything like that.

815
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.480
It is the only problem is the kind of social situation.

816
00:35:48.539 --> 00:35:52.739
They're comic timing is perfect as well because in this bit, they

817
00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:55.019
do a very quick back and forth quietly, quietly.

818
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:55.500
Of course.

819
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.920
You know, and it's just perfectly paced.

820
00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:03.900
She's like instantly doing bored acting within like about 3

821
00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:04.559
seconds.

822
00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:09.000
You know, I've always been attracted to quiet, man.

823
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.400
I haven't, actually.

824
00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:12.780
They're usually all with our mouse.

825
00:36:13.739 --> 00:36:19.380
But he just turns to her and shuts her up.

826
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:21.239
Doesn't she go, oh, sorry.

827
00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:21.900
I can't do it.

828
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:23.519
No, it would be me to you.

829
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:24.420
I can't be quiet.

830
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:25.320
I'm sorry.

831
00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:27.719
Sorry.

832
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:29.400
I've got to talk.

833
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.360
And then she starts talking about that miserable menache atois

834
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:34.139
episode, hasn't she?

835
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:36.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

836
00:36:36.059 --> 00:36:36.539
Yeah.

837
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.679
It's and I wonder why she does that. too.

838
00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:42.960
I don't know.

839
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.840
We're still trying to pull in the TNG crowds, I think.

840
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:47.820
Yeah, maybe that's it.

841
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:48.480
Maybe that's it.

842
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:50.880
But what's the character reason for her retelling that episode

843
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.260
there?

844
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.219
She can't be quiet, but she doesn't really want to reveal anything

845
00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:58.199
very much about herself.

846
00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:01.380
So it's it's just small talk.

847
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:07.500
Um, but this where he sits down next to her and starts talking to

848
00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:07.800
her.

849
00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:10.559
Look it's so nice, isn't it?

850
00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:16.679
I like, I just love the fact that, you know, we've always think of

851
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:19.440
a sort of rampant older lady, yeah.

852
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:22.800
But actually making connections with people is as important to

853
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:22.980
her.

854
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:24.900
And that's what this episode proves.

855
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:25.920
Yeah, yeah.

856
00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:29.280
Well, I think, you know, like it leans into the idea that she's an

857
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:30.360
empath.

858
00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:35.159
You know, she's an empath and what she is here is not just

859
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.239
empathic, but empathetic, she's kind and she wants to know what

860
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.239
it's like and she imagines how he feels and stuff.

861
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:45.659
When I was younger, you know, I think I used to be this person

862
00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:47.940
going on about all the people I'd had it off with.

863
00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:51.179
And I can still see the faces of people like Odo rolling their

864
00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:52.500
eyes going, 0 my God.

865
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:56.340
There's me going, oh, at 1st it was just a matter of this

866
00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:57.960
uncontrollable lust for me.

867
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:00.480
That was perfectly real.

868
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.940
She just said it was all a matter of expediency when I made love

869
00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:06.300
to him.

870
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:12.360
Yeah, yeah, she admits to having sex with him in that episode.

871
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:14.159
Shameless woman.

872
00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:17.219
And then Odo goes, I was wondering how many volts were going

873
00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:18.059
through that circuit.

874
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.300
Because I was going throw myself at it.

875
00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:25.860
Oh, this is a great scene as well where Bashir's like, please help

876
00:38:25.860 --> 00:38:26.280
me, sir.

877
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.460
I can't handle these ambassadors anymore.

878
00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:34.199
What is that bizarre piece of art there on that?

879
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:34.800
I know.

880
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:37.980
Well, we haven't got the clock yet. comes next episode.

881
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:39.900
Oh, yes.

882
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:47.940
The whole reason, the episode exists. ambassadors of unhappy.

883
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.179
Yeah, look, Cisco is really amused by it all.

884
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.260
All of us have had these assignments, doctor.

885
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

886
00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:02.099
It would have been quite amusing if he'd punch one of them, I

887
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:02.880
think, you know.

888
00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:06.360
Yeah, but he does tell him not to do that, doesn't he?

889
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:10.739
So, so CSco punched one of them.

890
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:11.519
Yeah.

891
00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:13.980
Oh, what was he?

892
00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:15.360
He was been sleazy with an ensign, wasn't he?

893
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:16.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

894
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:20.099
No, it seems to be stronger than that over his attempt to coax a

895
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:22.380
young ensign to his quarters against her will.

896
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:26.519
Yeah, but don't hit one of them, doctor.

897
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.800
I love that line too.

898
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:34.860
I'm not nearly as understanding as Curzon was.

899
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:38.639
Could you imagine how hot it would be to have Avery Brooks's

900
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:38.820
voice?

901
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.099
Oh, no, it's beautiful.

902
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:43.320
Oh no, here we go.

903
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:44.340
Back to the techno babble.

904
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:46.860
I do like this, though.

905
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.440
He goes, you know, listen to the computer's attitude.

906
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:51.000
It doesn't sound right, does it?

907
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:52.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

908
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:53.099
Yeah.

909
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:56.760
So we didn't sort of get that, but initially the computer's a

910
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.699
little bit talk, you know, has opinions and refuses to do things

911
00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:00.719
and talks back.

912
00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:04.440
And in that earlier scene, he tries to shut something down

913
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.840
manually after the computer refuses to do it.

914
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:11.400
And then the computer refuses to allow him to even do it

915
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:11.940
manually.

916
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.500
Well, he objects, doesn't he?

917
00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:18.119
Because the Cardassian systems allows a 20% error, right, doesn't

918
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:18.300
it?

919
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:19.500
And he goes, so 20%.

920
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:20.219
That's unacceptable.

921
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:21.059
That's too much.

922
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:23.219
I think the Federation, they're a bit wimpy though.

923
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.860
Do you not remember that episode of TNG where the person goes, you

924
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:27.719
have a 2nd backup system?

925
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

926
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:30.659
Yeah.

927
00:40:30.659 --> 00:40:31.019
Yeah.

928
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:35.760
But I have to say none of this stuff about the computer, none of

929
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.260
the, none of it interests me at all.

930
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.000
I'm just like, but there is absolutely a Star Trek audience for

931
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:42.659
this stuff.

932
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:44.219
So fair.

933
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.800
I mean, I'm interested in computers and I'm interested in

934
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.320
technobabble and I thought this was all really quite boring.

935
00:40:49.380 --> 00:40:55.920
But, um, and it sort of seemed like a sort of a less fun dry run

936
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.139
of what happens on discovery with Zora.

937
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:01.619
Remember the episode that we did where Zora attained sentience and

938
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.619
they have to find some way of dealing with her now that she's a

939
00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:07.260
member of the crew with, you know, opinions and stuff.

940
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.039
It's a less fun version of civil defence when the computer turns

941
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:13.619
on them and tries to shoot the long episode.

942
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:14.940
So good.

943
00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:17.820
Maybe that's the puppy getting his revenge.

944
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:19.500
You kept me locked up too long, O'Brien.

945
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:23.219
No, it's definitely that's definitely in gull.

946
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:24.239
You can, isn't it?

947
00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:26.880
Oh, and you know, did you see what they were doing in this

948
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:27.300
episode?

949
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.340
The 90s trek metaphors.

950
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:31.679
It's like dancing a waltz with this one.

951
00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:34.500
But normally, you know, it's like doing the tarantella or

952
00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:34.800
something.

953
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:35.760
Oh, for God's sake.

954
00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:37.920
Yeah, you make it sound like a child.

955
00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:40.559
It's more like a puppy, blah, blah, blah.

956
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:42.840
Can we go back to the lift, please?

957
00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:44.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

958
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:45.059
Yeah.

959
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.260
I mean, even the probe isn't that interesting to look at, is it?

960
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:50.579
No, not at all.

961
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:52.019
That's got a reasonable shot.

962
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.739
Well, the station shot of the station from what we've seen.

963
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:57.900
Oh boy.

964
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.559
Yeah, so everyone get around the table in ops to talk about this

965
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:02.460
boring plot now.

966
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:04.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

967
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:07.199
Well, Nathan, it all comes down to how we define a life form

968
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:07.380
really.

969
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:09.300
Yeah, let's talk about that for a while.

970
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:12.719
Biological life mechanical life, you know.

971
00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:15.780
I mean, this is the most Star Treky of all the plots.

972
00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:24.719
Well, yeah, except remember that I think that normally on TNG at

973
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:29.219
least, the, the, the technobabble is just there to give the

974
00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:32.159
impression that they're competent people doing a technological

975
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.500
thing that the audience can't understand.

976
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:39.599
But here they're constructing this plot out of technobabble.

977
00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:42.659
And it's a thing that we'll later say on Voyager done vastly worse

978
00:42:42.659 --> 00:42:43.739
than this.

979
00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:46.079
They will ditch completely, though.

980
00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:49.380
Come like season 4 where they realise it is all about the

981
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:49.860
characters.

982
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.739
There are so, like, the setup album doesn't vanish.

983
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.639
It's still Star Trek.

984
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:55.320
It's reduced to an absolute.

985
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.659
I mean, I think of stuff we watch in series 7, change the face of

986
00:42:57.659 --> 00:42:57.900
evil.

987
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.119
There's no technobabble in it at all, you know?

988
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:00.900
No.

989
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.440
But I mean, here this is a space problem that's completely just in

990
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:05.039
dialogue.

991
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:09.480
You know, you've got some, the shot of the probe or whatever, but

992
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.440
everything is just described in a series of messenger speeches.

993
00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:17.940
And, you know, think about when the computer goes crazy in TNG or

994
00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:19.320
even in that Voyager episode.

995
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:22.199
Remember the Voyager episode where the computer goes crazy and

996
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:25.739
Janeway's coffee is replicated before the cup is replicated?

997
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:27.599
That stuff.

998
00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:32.519
And, you know, like, you know, the computer starts playing loud

999
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:37.320
music on the bridge in TNG or whatever, like fun things when the

1000
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:38.099
computer goes wrong.

1001
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.860
This is all very boring things when the computer goes wrong.

1002
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:43.800
How does Karen know he sleeps in a bucket?

1003
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:45.239
That's not something I would tell everybody.

1004
00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:47.460
Yeah, I don't know.

1005
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:48.300
I don't know.

1006
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:51.840
I mean, you know, we all sleep in something.

1007
00:43:54.659 --> 00:43:58.320
You'd have to say to people, if Joe doesn't get back to his hovel

1008
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:00.480
in time, but...

1009
00:44:00.539 --> 00:44:02.039
It'll be horribly wrong.

1010
00:44:02.460 --> 00:44:06.719
But I mean, he needs she needs to know in order to kind of create

1011
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.900
this tension so that we know.

1012
00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:15.960
So, you know, she needs to, you know, she needs us to know.

1013
00:44:16.019 --> 00:44:19.800
And so because Odo's not going to tell Waxana, that's going to be

1014
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:24.659
a big moment, we need to know that there's a, you know, like a

1015
00:44:24.659 --> 00:44:33.239
clock running out. 3 scenes with the computer plot on the trot is

1016
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:33.780
too much.

1017
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:36.539
There should only be.

1018
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:41.219
Well, they should be going, A, B, C, rather than just having 3

1019
00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:45.000
scenes of the computer plot, right in the heart of the episode, the

1020
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:46.079
most boring plot of all.

1021
00:44:46.139 --> 00:44:48.599
Thank God, the ambassadors of unhappy are back.

1022
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:52.260
I mean, there was an ad break in the middle of that sequence, to

1023
00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:52.619
be fair.

1024
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:54.000
Oh, there was?

1025
00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:58.619
Oh, I didn't get the end sting music. that's right.

1026
00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:00.179
How would I possibly know?

1027
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:03.420
How do we know to get up and get a wee in the middle of the

1028
00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:03.840
episode?

1029
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.179
Oh, look, we're going back to the upper pylons.

1030
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:09.659
Hurrah.

1031
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:11.760
Yes, I love a good upper pylon.

1032
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:14.280
But enough about me.

1033
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:23.159
So she's been talking all through the ad break and through those

1034
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:24.119
previous scenes.

1035
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.360
Who goes, I'm a private man.

1036
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:30.300
She goes, yeah, it's funny. always been attracted to private men

1037
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:34.320
of course Oh, now she starts asking him about his head.

1038
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:36.420
This is where this is just gorgeous.

1039
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.159
Yeah, yeah.

1040
00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:42.239
And he opens up about how he was exploited.

1041
00:45:42.300 --> 00:45:42.900
Yes.

1042
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.179
And she sees a way in then, doesn't she?

1043
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:46.739
She sees a way interconnect with him.

1044
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:48.840
But I don't think it's even that.

1045
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:52.860
I think that she starts to feel feel for him.

1046
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:57.960
Like she really starts to kind of, she hears the details of what

1047
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:02.400
being brought up in a laboratory might be like, and she imagines

1048
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.340
it, and she feels empathy for him.

1049
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:08.880
You know, like, I don't think she's being calculated. can't

1050
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.739
believe that he uses the word assigned.

1051
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.440
Yeah, you know, rather than like adopted.

1052
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:16.679
She goes, is that how you grew up in a laboratory?

1053
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:21.059
And she, like, she's now, she's not on.

1054
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:24.420
She's not being big, she's not trying to be funny.

1055
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:28.980
She's being genuine and she's wonderful when she drops that.

1056
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.639
Like the Auntie Maim thing is really fun and really funny.

1057
00:46:32.699 --> 00:46:37.920
She's awesome, but when she's really being understanding, and he's

1058
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.820
caught off guard by it, you know, like he doesn't clam up, he

1059
00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:43.320
keeps going to...

1060
00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:44.820
Because you just expect her to be.

1061
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:48.059
So when she does bring it down like this. is more touching as a

1062
00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:48.239
result.

1063
00:46:48.539 --> 00:46:55.380
Yeah, that's why that scene in Odo's office is so over the top why

1064
00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:58.019
she's being why she's being so forceful.

1065
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:01.500
She grabs his arm in a minute as well, which, yeah, look, when she

1066
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:02.639
sees that he's in pain.

1067
00:47:02.699 --> 00:47:04.980
She just holds his arm gently.

1068
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:08.219
She's beautiful, isn't she?

1069
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.659
Just that concern.

1070
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:12.239
Now she's properly empathising.

1071
00:47:12.300 --> 00:47:15.300
I can't imagine what it would have been like to grow up like

1072
00:47:15.300 --> 00:47:15.480
that.

1073
00:47:15.539 --> 00:47:18.599
And and, you know, we don't have to talk about this.

1074
00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:22.260
She was she was refusing to allow there to be no conversation, but

1075
00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:24.119
now she's saying, you don't have to talk about it.

1076
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:25.800
And he says, yes, no, I want to.

1077
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.940
And the way he plays these lines as well.

1078
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:31.980
You know, I hate parties.

1079
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.039
Because they were just so awful for him.

1080
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:38.460
Oh, I love all this stuff.

1081
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:40.980
Yeah, yeah, it's terrific, isn't it?

1082
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:42.059
It's really good.

1083
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.639
You know when I say like characters am I in?

1084
00:47:44.699 --> 00:47:46.679
We're Star Trek, a lot of the Take the Bad Way. really the strange

1085
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:47.340
new wealth.

1086
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:48.480
This is the stuff I love.

1087
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:50.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1088
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:51.659
Yeah, yeah.

1089
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:55.739
I mean, but, you know, like it's 2 beautiful performances from 2

1090
00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:59.280
very, very experienced actors as well, which I think is really

1091
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:00.059
enjoyable.

1092
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:03.539
And then you, I, you know, I would almost believe this would be

1093
00:48:03.539 --> 00:48:07.980
the end of this plot like this is touching enough, but then it

1094
00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:10.079
comes to the bit where he's got his back turned.

1095
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:11.579
He won't look at her.

1096
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:12.840
It's a private matter.

1097
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:14.880
Oh my god, it just gets better and better these days.

1098
00:48:14.940 --> 00:48:16.500
Yeah, yeah, it's really good.

1099
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:17.519
It is really good.

1100
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.000
Oh, oh, oh.

1101
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:23.940
This is what I'm like an hour before bed.

1102
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.360
Boy, they struck gold with Renee, didn't they?

1103
00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:28.739
They did, I mean.

1104
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:29.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1105
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:30.780
I mean he's brilliant, isn't he?

1106
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.239
I mean, he's one of the best things about the show and even acting

1107
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:36.840
under that huge lump of latex that they've put on his side.

1108
00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:37.739
Makes you feel for him.

1109
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:38.639
Yeah.

1110
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.199
Time and time again.

1111
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:44.159
Berman says on the memory alpha page that Renee's like one of his

1112
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.139
favourite actors across all of Trek.

1113
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.619
I think it's just because he's so fucking reliable, you know?

1114
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:50.400
Yeah, yeah.

1115
00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:51.179
No, he's good.

1116
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:52.920
I mean, he's just been doing it for a long time.

1117
00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:53.340
All right.

1118
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.880
So we're opening the drawer so we can take some isolinear rods out

1119
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:57.719
of the computer.

1120
00:48:57.780 --> 00:48:58.619
Oh, boring.

1121
00:48:58.619 --> 00:49:02.760
This is the sort of bullshit we did this.

1122
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:04.679
Why we know this?

1123
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.019
Well, because they're all trying to make the computer do lots of

1124
00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:10.380
things and they're taking sort of the power circuits out at the

1125
00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:13.440
same time, so it has a bit of a breakdown. or something.

1126
00:49:13.619 --> 00:49:20.400
So these are the equivalent of the isolinear chips on Star Trek on

1127
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:21.599
the Enterprise.

1128
00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:24.900
They have isolinear rods in these little drawers.

1129
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.940
Remember isolinear chips in the slots that they have in in Omni

1130
00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:31.320
Enterprise on a Federation ship?

1131
00:49:31.380 --> 00:49:35.219
They just wouldn't waste time doing anything this boring in the

1132
00:49:35.219 --> 00:49:37.199
last 3 seasons of Dig Space 9.

1133
00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:40.079
You know, this is definitely a let's pad out this episode.

1134
00:49:40.139 --> 00:49:40.980
Yeah.

1135
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:44.400
So they're they're kind of pulling the memory out of the computer

1136
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.420
and launching Microsoft Office and stuff at the same time, you

1137
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:49.739
know, opening lots of tabs.

1138
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.500
It's just like a thut of sparks, isn't it?

1139
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:53.639
or anything?

1140
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.260
No, it's a computer.

1141
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.719
I mean, really, I don't think you want it firing rocks at you just

1142
00:49:57.719 --> 00:49:59.940
because you they normally do, don't they?

1143
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:00.539
All the consoles?

1144
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:01.679
tabs in chrome.

1145
00:50:01.739 --> 00:50:04.079
I thought that was quite nicely done right.

1146
00:50:04.139 --> 00:50:07.440
You got the explosion heading towards the camera and then they

1147
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.320
focus on the actors and just throw in a couple of flames, yeah?

1148
00:50:11.340 --> 00:50:15.300
And then what happens is we don't see them after this until

1149
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:16.260
they're rescued.

1150
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:18.719
And so that plot actually goes away.

1151
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:22.139
We see, so we see this.

1152
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:26.579
But basically, basically after it's established that he can't get

1153
00:50:26.579 --> 00:50:26.760
out.

1154
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:31.320
We don't see them again. quickly get get Tesco in the Jeffrey

1155
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:32.880
Stube or whatever her name is.

1156
00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:35.579
Oh, that, that flaming corridor.

1157
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:37.860
She looks quite aggressive, doesn't it?

1158
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:41.460
They like doing stuff with flames towards the end.

1159
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:44.159
Do you not remember if wishes were horses, where that flaming man

1160
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:45.659
comes running towards Kira?

1161
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:46.920
Do you remember that?

1162
00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:52.920
Oh, and there's a little special effects shot here as well, where

1163
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.480
Kira shoots the door and you see the glass.

1164
00:50:57.539 --> 00:51:01.320
I clearly glass, but I think it's supposed to be geranium.

1165
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.480
Oh, well, we're going to need a bipolar torch to get through it.

1166
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:09.719
It's clearly glass.

1167
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:11.340
OMG.

1168
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:16.800
Oh, Brian's bored of his own plot, look.

1169
00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:18.960
He goes, yeah, that's right.

1170
00:51:19.019 --> 00:51:19.500
That's right.

1171
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:22.199
I could potentially exciting plot with fire.

1172
00:51:23.340 --> 00:51:26.400
I could have been in the lift with Mrs. Troy.

1173
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:27.659
Oh, no, we didn't want to see that.

1174
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:31.019
Although, to be fair, Column is very reliable actor as well.

1175
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:33.119
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1176
00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:34.139
Oh, here we go.

1177
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:35.280
We doing the metaphoric again.

1178
00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:36.420
I had a puppy once, you know.

1179
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:37.559
He shut him up.

1180
00:51:37.619 --> 00:51:38.400
He goes crazy.

1181
00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:40.320
I thought you'd empathise with some of this stuff.

1182
00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:41.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1183
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:44.039
Well, particularly since I'm having to get up every few seconds

1184
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:47.400
and let the dog in and out of this room where we're recording.

1185
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:51.300
Don't worry, I've got you back, all right?

1186
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:57.360
I can monologue bullshit.

1187
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:02.219
Although immediately with this subplot is difficult.

1188
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:05.280
It's not giving us very much, is it?

1189
00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:06.960
It's funny.

1190
00:52:07.019 --> 00:52:10.440
We're very animated when Mrs. Troy comes back. the rest of the

1191
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:10.679
time.

1192
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:12.780
We're like, oh, what the hell do we say now?

1193
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:17.039
Do you see how just all of this is done through dialogue?

1194
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:19.980
And it's just dialogue about the space problem.

1195
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.380
It's a really boring space problem.

1196
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.059
There's no visuals that accompany it.

1197
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:25.199
Oh, we're back in the lift, Wayne.

1198
00:52:25.260 --> 00:52:25.739
I'll show.

1199
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.079
What I really appreciate here as well.

1200
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:33.480
Like, it's as much about the acting as it is the dialogue.

1201
00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:35.760
But the dialogue is really good.

1202
00:52:35.820 --> 00:52:40.860
Like, it's on the nose. it's telling you what they're feeling it

1203
00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:41.760
is good dialogue.

1204
00:52:42.420 --> 00:52:44.760
Oh, no.

1205
00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:51.360
And, and, Like, she says, you know, you don't need to be

1206
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.340
embarrassed or ashamed or something.

1207
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:57.239
And he says, no, no, I'm not, but this is private.

1208
00:52:57.300 --> 00:53:02.280
I think I think maybe he is, but he shouldn't be.

1209
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:06.300
You know, this is just, you know, yeah, he does say I'm not

1210
00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:06.780
ashamed.

1211
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:08.579
I'm inclined to believe that.

1212
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:09.599
I'm not ashamed.

1213
00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:11.219
It's just a private matter.

1214
00:53:11.579 --> 00:53:17.099
I really like as well the, like, they just, she just puts the wig

1215
00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:18.000
into frame.

1216
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:19.619
With no explanation.

1217
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:21.900
And you were sort of going, what, what?

1218
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:25.559
But Nick, this is us seeing him for the 1st time.

1219
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:29.159
It's that shot where we see him liquefying and then she puts the

1220
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:30.300
wig into frame.

1221
00:53:30.300 --> 00:53:31.440
Of that shot, there's no cart.

1222
00:53:31.500 --> 00:53:32.460
We just get to see him.

1223
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:36.480
But like, and then and look how beautiful she is.

1224
00:53:36.539 --> 00:53:39.239
That smile and just...

1225
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:40.980
No one has ever seen me like this.

1226
00:53:41.219 --> 00:53:43.440
We certainly haven't, have we?

1227
00:53:43.500 --> 00:53:45.179
No, no, of course we haven't.

1228
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:48.119
He tries to be nice.

1229
00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:48.960
It looks fine.

1230
00:53:49.019 --> 00:53:51.599
It looks ordinary, all right?

1231
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:57.480
Oh, even we non-shapeshifters have to change ourselves every once

1232
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:58.019
in a while.

1233
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:02.579
I could be on the nose, but they play it. beautifully.

1234
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:05.400
But it's it's not the dialogue.

1235
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:06.960
It is really her.

1236
00:54:07.019 --> 00:54:08.760
Oh, that too.

1237
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:10.860
You're not what I expected.

1238
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:12.659
And look at her smile.

1239
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:14.760
No one's ever paid me a greater compliment.

1240
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:16.500
It's just beautiful.

1241
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:20.280
The 2 of them, like she's acting against Renee with that fucking

1242
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.639
chocolate sauce.

1243
00:54:23.699 --> 00:54:26.039
Is she understands right what Star Trek's really about?

1244
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:28.440
I ain't a spaceship and all that bullshit.

1245
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:29.760
Yeah, yeah.

1246
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:33.659
I'll take care of you. love that line.

1247
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:35.760
And he melts in a lap.

1248
00:54:35.820 --> 00:54:36.719
Oh, come on.

1249
00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:38.940
That's actually quite a nice effect.

1250
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:39.900
That's not too bad.

1251
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:41.219
Yeah, it's terrible.

1252
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:43.260
But it's the best we could do.

1253
00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:47.880
I mean, I find those Kurtsman shapeshifters.

1254
00:54:47.940 --> 00:54:49.079
That's really ugly goo.

1255
00:54:49.139 --> 00:54:50.760
That is quite a pleasant.

1256
00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:54.059
It looks different in discovery from how it does in Picard, but in

1257
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:55.860
Picard, it looks like raw chicken.

1258
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:59.639
Like it's really, it's hugely horrible, isn't it?

1259
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:02.460
We're cold enough.

1260
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:07.079
Odo turning into raw chicken whilst he's seducing the knock. can

1261
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:07.320
we?

1262
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:12.179
Oh, dear.

1263
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:14.219
Oh, back to the computer plot again.

1264
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:15.480
Okay.

1265
00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:18.420
Maybe, maybe, okay, maybe I've remembered it wrong.

1266
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:19.559
It is really quite dull.

1267
00:55:19.619 --> 00:55:21.599
Yeah, no, it's super boring.

1268
00:55:21.659 --> 00:55:22.440
It's sort of nothing.

1269
00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:24.960
And so what they've done is they've created a sub-program.

1270
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:30.480
They've put the puppy in that and then they've rerouted all of the

1271
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.199
data so that it goes through that program so that it still feels

1272
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.199
like it's having attention paid to it or something.

1273
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:40.860
Literally, the only difference we see in the station is the lights

1274
00:55:40.860 --> 00:55:41.219
come on.

1275
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:42.420
The lights come back on.

1276
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.659
Oh, the fire suppression system comes back on in the other room

1277
00:55:45.659 --> 00:55:46.139
too.

1278
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:51.420
Oh, look at all those tubes and things hanging from the ceiling.

1279
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:54.900
Oh, there's been a big proper explosion, I think.

1280
00:55:55.500 --> 00:55:58.320
Oh my god, is Tesco all right?

1281
00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:06.000
So, she's spelled T-A-X-C-O. Tech-Texco.

1282
00:56:06.059 --> 00:56:08.340
Oh, I can see why I heard Tesco.

1283
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:10.139
Yeah, they're far from my mind.

1284
00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:10.920
Texaco.

1285
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.760
Oh, I used to live by a Texico garage, you know.

1286
00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:16.320
Yeah, there you go. one of those.

1287
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:20.219
So now he's got 3 ambassadors he can call on.

1288
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:23.340
Maybe, you know, when the truth comes out about his genetic

1289
00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:23.760
engineering.

1290
00:56:23.820 --> 00:56:24.960
He called in a few favours.

1291
00:56:25.019 --> 00:56:26.940
Yeah, Tesco.

1292
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.780
But I love how she calls him Julian.

1293
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:33.480
And, you know, when she just says, please, Julian, and a normal

1294
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:35.159
voice, where she's not being brissy.

1295
00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:37.739
Like, it's sort of a great relief and it's really good.

1296
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:41.400
Like it really sells how appreciative they are, which is just

1297
00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:43.199
dropped all that shit about her.

1298
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:43.739
Yeah.

1299
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:46.980
He's definitely doing comedy Vulcan there, isn't it?

1300
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:48.360
The doctor, absolutely.

1301
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:50.880
Was remarkably efficient, straightening up his uniform.

1302
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:54.480
All right, mate, you know.

1303
00:56:54.539 --> 00:56:56.460
The Big Bang Theory awaits.

1304
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:04.320
Oh, this line here is just something about beautifully.

1305
00:57:04.380 --> 00:57:06.420
He goes, well, your picnic. didn't have your picnic.

1306
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.420
She goes, the best thing about picnic, Odo, is the company.

1307
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:11.400
It's wonderful, isn't it?

1308
00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:14.280
But look at the warmth. like, and it's Odo.

1309
00:57:14.340 --> 00:57:19.260
When when she leaves or the last shot with Odo, where he just

1310
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:23.039
smiles slightly, which almost never happens and probably at this

1311
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:24.780
point hasn't happened before.

1312
00:57:25.139 --> 00:57:28.980
Your sensitivity and discretion. are appreciated.

1313
00:57:29.099 --> 00:57:33.360
After that 1st scene, he says your sensitivity and discretion.

1314
00:57:33.420 --> 00:57:34.139
It's wonderful.

1315
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:38.760
She gets in one more reference, though, next time I'll see you

1316
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:40.679
Nathan, you know, I'll give you something to appreciate.

1317
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:43.980
But she means it and he likes it.

1318
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:46.139
Look at his reaction when she leaves.

1319
00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:47.940
Look at that.

1320
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:48.599
It's wonderful.

1321
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:50.219
You're right.

1322
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:53.880
That is a dead end, perhaps I should have.

1323
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:54.659
It doesn't go anywhere.

1324
00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:57.360
They try it once more and then they decide not to go with it.

1325
00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:02.340
Double the salary mature if you'll just dismiss your issues about

1326
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:03.000
the war.

1327
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:08.099
I think she did all right, Mitchell, you know.

1328
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:11.579
Good for her.

1329
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:13.739
Did she get shot into space like him?

1330
00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:15.719
I can't remember, maybe.

1331
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:18.599
Keep it off the furniture.

1332
00:58:18.659 --> 00:58:21.659
I thought was a good line because it's because I was actually

1333
00:58:21.659 --> 00:58:23.460
laughing out loud for a second.

1334
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:26.280
Maybe it was just relief that there was some fun happening in that

1335
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:28.559
plot where O'Brien's going, can we keep him?

1336
00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:29.219
Can we keep him?

1337
00:58:29.340 --> 00:58:30.059
Can we keep him?

1338
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:30.480
you know?

1339
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:35.760
So I said to you, it was quite interesting to see what they kept

1340
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:39.360
and what they dropped, what they dropped was plots like that C

1341
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:44.880
plot, which are very, very sort of TNG style plots of techno

1342
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:48.780
babble heavy about the nuts and bolts of the ship strokes

1343
00:58:48.780 --> 00:58:49.260
station.

1344
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:54.119
What they learn to keep is all of this sort of intense character

1345
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:56.699
work and they take that forward.

1346
00:58:56.760 --> 00:58:59.820
Yeah, I mean, you know, like Star Trek, the Next Generation would

1347
00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:01.980
never do a plot like that C plot, though.

1348
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:06.539
That's really nothing because what Star Trek the Next Generation

1349
00:59:06.539 --> 00:59:10.199
is, is about plots like that, but they have to be plots like that

1350
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:15.900
that have enough going on to make this the episode where X

1351
00:59:15.900 --> 00:59:16.440
happens.

1352
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:17.460
Do you know what I mean?

1353
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:20.940
There's no Star Trek, the Next Generation, where the episode where

1354
00:59:20.940 --> 00:59:23.820
something goes wrong with the computer, and then we talk about it

1355
00:59:23.820 --> 00:59:28.380
quite a lot, and then we fix it by talking about it, and then we

1356
00:59:28.380 --> 00:59:29.340
get on with our lives.

1357
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:31.260
Like they would never do that.

1358
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:35.099
It has to be kind of more because it's, that's going to be the

1359
00:59:35.099 --> 00:59:36.900
central plot of a TNG episode.

1360
00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:38.460
So there's got to be more to it than that.

1361
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:44.460
What DS 9 has, though, is the sort of in-built character

1362
00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:50.519
backstories where very touching moments are, are they almost like

1363
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:54.300
built into the characters as they evolve and as they learn more

1364
00:59:54.300 --> 00:59:58.019
about themselves, you know, Kira going from terrorists to, you

1365
00:59:58.019 --> 01:00:02.639
know, administrator, Odo finding his people as he goes along.

1366
01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:04.619
The things we learn about everybody.

1367
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:09.239
I just think they really, they really got the characters right

1368
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:10.980
from the off on DSI.

1369
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:14.699
They weren't all fully formed with the actors, but they kind of

1370
01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:19.019
they got them to a point where, I don't know, moments like that in

1371
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:22.380
the lift, they just came every other episode and that's a

1372
01:00:22.380 --> 01:00:26.159
difference between this and TNG as well because the characters

1373
01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:28.260
just aren't there in TNG.

1374
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.019
Like we've said a 1000000 times, it's the cast more than the

1375
01:00:31.019 --> 01:00:31.440
characters.

1376
01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:32.699
Yeah.

1377
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:37.260
I think, though, that scene in the lift at this early stage when

1378
01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:42.539
Odo is just, you know, a paragraph length entry in the show

1379
01:00:42.539 --> 01:00:43.559
Bible.

1380
01:00:43.619 --> 01:00:46.500
We don't know who he is yet or who his people are yet.

1381
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:49.320
And I don't think the writers know that either.

1382
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:54.360
Then what you really have is let's get Michelle and the most

1383
01:00:54.360 --> 01:01:00.360
experienced actor in the cast together in the lift and do

1384
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:03.420
something that they're both going to be really good at.

1385
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:07.440
And I think, you know, that backstory, which later gets followed

1386
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:07.619
up.

1387
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:11.280
I mean, we meet the scientists, don't we, with Odo's hair a bit

1388
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:15.000
later and learn about what that upbringing was like.

1389
01:01:15.059 --> 01:01:18.840
But that upbringing is just created for the purpose of this

1390
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:20.159
episode, isn't it?

1391
01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:26.699
to give her an in to give her some way of making connection, like

1392
01:01:26.699 --> 01:01:30.900
you said, the sympathy that she has, her imagination, her ability

1393
01:01:30.900 --> 01:01:33.659
to imagine what it might have been like to have been brought up

1394
01:01:33.659 --> 01:01:34.260
like that.

1395
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:38.699
You know, all of those things that, um, her sensitivity and

1396
01:01:38.699 --> 01:01:39.719
discretion, you know.

1397
01:01:39.780 --> 01:01:42.480
So it isn't quite the characters yet.

1398
01:01:42.539 --> 01:01:49.139
I think it is putting those 2 people in the lift and giving them

1399
01:01:49.139 --> 01:01:52.739
fun things to do, giving them something interesting to talk about

1400
01:01:52.739 --> 01:01:55.380
and that that leads in all sorts of directions.

1401
01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:02.159
In the sort of ranking of Luaxana Troy episodes, this is pretty

1402
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:03.119
high.

1403
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:05.639
One, two, I don't know.

1404
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:08.760
I mean, I really love cost of living.

1405
01:02:08.820 --> 01:02:10.800
Costco ways to redo that.

1406
01:02:10.860 --> 01:02:13.199
I think Half Alive is really good.

1407
01:02:13.260 --> 01:02:15.119
You know, like half a life's properly good.

1408
01:02:15.179 --> 01:02:19.260
Dark Page is good in what he's trying to do.

1409
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:23.039
It's at that period where... and the execution.

1410
01:02:23.099 --> 01:02:27.420
It's, you know, that sort of flat TNG season 7 direction.

1411
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:30.480
But, you know, like if it hadn't been for Dark Page, we wouldn't

1412
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:35.699
have had quite what we had in Nepenthe decades later. you know

1413
01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:39.360
that's important, I think, in the way they eventually go with

1414
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:41.639
Deanna and Riker.

1415
01:02:41.699 --> 01:02:45.780
Due to the sort of scattershot approach of this podcast of us

1416
01:02:45.780 --> 01:02:47.460
jumping about all over the place.

1417
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:52.079
We're putting together the Mrs. Troy picture and we've seen her at

1418
01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:54.119
her absolute worst in manhunt.

1419
01:02:54.179 --> 01:02:56.340
We've seen her at our absolute best here.

1420
01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:59.340
I can't wait till she pops back again to the podcast.

1421
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:00.900
She's wonderful.

1422
01:03:08.219 --> 01:03:11.760
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1423
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:13.980
work out where we're going next.

1424
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:20.880
I'm riding high on my choice of tapestry last time, and you, I

1425
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:24.239
think, are riding high on your choice of the Forsaken this week.

1426
01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:28.800
So I'm going to see if I can ruin it all by doing an episode of

1427
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.739
Star Trek Picard.

1428
01:03:31.980 --> 01:03:35.400
Oh, well, that's not a given that you're going to write.

1429
01:03:35.460 --> 01:03:36.119
No it's not a given.

1430
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:38.400
I just wanted you to think for a 2nd that I was going to say

1431
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:39.420
enterprise again.

1432
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.239
Well, I always figure that's where you're going.

1433
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:47.880
So it turns out that Enterprise is still our kind of 2nd least

1434
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:48.840
most covered.

1435
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:49.980
Oh, okay.

1436
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:54.119
It's most covered series, but, but, um, but you'll be able to itch

1437
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:57.179
that rather perverse kink fairly soon then.

1438
01:03:57.239 --> 01:03:59.159
Yes, I think I probably will have to.

1439
01:03:59.219 --> 01:04:00.360
All right.

1440
01:04:00.420 --> 01:04:04.440
So I'm going to select Star Trek Picard.

1441
01:04:04.500 --> 01:04:08.639
And I'm going to give you a 2nd to do something important for me

1442
01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:10.800
which is get German.

1443
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:17.820
The only way we know anything about...

1444
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:19.860
Oh, and the animated series as well.

1445
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:21.420
We never know what they are.

1446
01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:22.199
Okay, I'm ready.

1447
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:23.699
All right.

1448
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:26.820
And I'm going to choose a random episode of Star Trek Picard.

1449
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:31.199
And, ooh, I think I know what this one is.

1450
01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:35.039
So this is season two, episode six.

1451
01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:38.699
Yeah. 2 of one.

1452
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:40.500
Two of one.

1453
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:42.780
I shall give you a little uh precis.

1454
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:46.679
As Agnes struggles with an invasive presence inside her mind.

1455
01:04:46.739 --> 01:04:50.760
The crew attend the party celebrating the Europa Space Station

1456
01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:54.480
where they must ensure Renee Picard is not manipulated into

1457
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:56.280
withdrawing from her destiny.

1458
01:04:56.340 --> 01:04:58.860
And it has a musical number in it.

1459
01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:00.119
Oh, salt.

1460
01:05:00.179 --> 01:05:00.840
Let's do it.

1461
01:05:01.380 --> 01:05:03.300
Is it Agnes?

1462
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:04.679
It's Agnes.

1463
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:05.699
Oh, wonderful.

1464
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:07.500
It's pretty great.

1465
01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:08.519
It is pretty great.

1466
01:05:08.579 --> 01:05:13.320
And of course, the unwelcome presence in her mind is, of course

1467
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:14.340
the Borg queen.

1468
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:18.840
So it's called 2 of one for that reason because Agnes and the Borg

1469
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:21.059
Queen are kind of becoming united.

1470
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:24.780
So there's a big cocktail party before the big mission that Renee

1471
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:30.659
Picard, who is a young woman who's an astronaut who is going up in

1472
01:05:30.659 --> 01:05:34.559
this rocket in the 21st century, and it's the mission that's

1473
01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:39.719
important to ensure that we don't become the confederation in the

1474
01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:39.960
future.

1475
01:05:40.019 --> 01:05:43.019
Is this sort of the middle period of the season where it's all

1476
01:05:43.019 --> 01:05:45.659
just sort of running around a bit, waiting to get to the end of

1477
01:05:45.659 --> 01:05:46.019
the season.

1478
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:48.960
Kind of, but there is a central thing.

1479
01:05:49.019 --> 01:05:51.900
Like it's said at this party, they all have to go to the party.

1480
01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:54.059
So they're not all off in their little plots or anything like

1481
01:05:54.059 --> 01:05:54.300
that.

1482
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.039
There's a central thing going on.

1483
01:05:56.099 --> 01:06:00.960
You know, I truly enjoy the stately direction of Jonathan Frakes

1484
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:03.179
and the drumhead that we do recently.

1485
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:06.059
You know, the cameras stood still and focussed on the actors.

1486
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:09.420
Unfortunately, this is a Jonathan Frank's directed Picard

1487
01:06:09.420 --> 01:06:09.900
episode.

1488
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:12.900
So the drones will be zooming around the party.

1489
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:15.300
That's what I want to see.

1490
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:19.139
I'll take my anti-nausea tablets before pressing play.

1491
01:06:19.199 --> 01:06:20.280
Excellent.

1492
01:06:27.179 --> 01:06:30.960
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1493
01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:32.219
and Nathan Bottomley.

1494
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:35.699
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1495
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:38.460
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1496
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:42.539
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

1497
01:06:42.539 --> 01:06:43.860
by Cameron Lamb.

1498
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:48.599
This episode was recorded on the 17th of June 2025 and released on

1499
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:49.559
the 20th of June.

1500
01:06:49.619 --> 01:06:53.159
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Picard, 2 of one.

1501
01:07:14.219 --> 01:07:17.099
Oh, I'm sorry doing that.

1502
01:07:17.159 --> 01:07:19.199
No idea about this one.

1503
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:21.179
I'll be going in blind.

1504
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:27.480
Well, like, you remember, like, it's so amazing because, so it's

1505
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:32.699
like, like April 2022 this episode is, right?

1506
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:37.199
So they're showing Picard in sort of February, March, April, 2022.

1507
01:07:39.059 --> 01:07:41.639
And so Biden's a president.

1508
01:07:41.699 --> 01:07:43.440
We're midway through Biden's term.

1509
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:47.280
And the villains up to this point are ice.

1510
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:53.460
Oh, you know, the people who are now kidnapping people off the

1511
01:07:53.460 --> 01:07:55.980
street and disappearing them in America.

1512
01:07:56.099 --> 01:08:00.900
They're the villains in this, you know, like 3 years earlier

1513
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:07.139
because remember that they pick up Rios is an undocumented

1514
01:08:07.139 --> 01:08:10.079
immigrant and they take him in a bus and they're going to dump him

1515
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:12.360
over the border at some point.

1516
01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:14.639
Oh, Rios.

1517
01:08:14.699 --> 01:08:16.500
Yeah, beautiful Rios.

1518
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:18.420
Oh, God.

1519
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:19.079
Do you know what?

1520
01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:22.199
I don't know why even bobble looking at the comments on these.

1521
01:08:22.260 --> 01:08:24.359
Yeah, you keep this in this episode, all right?

1522
01:08:24.420 --> 01:08:28.500
I don't know why I bother looking at the comments of Jammer's

1523
01:08:28.500 --> 01:08:32.760
website or any fandom talking about new episodes coming out. listen

1524
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.640
to this. rolled my eyes over and over for this one.

1525
01:08:35.699 --> 01:08:37.739
This storyline is fracked.

1526
01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:40.859
Oh, God, I hated this.

1527
01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:44.880
Oh, my view on Star Trek Picard is going downhill.

1528
01:08:44.939 --> 01:08:47.520
Every single one is everyone shitting all over it.

1529
01:08:48.899 --> 01:08:53.939
So the other thing is, though, every so often, you know, he'll

1530
01:08:53.939 --> 01:08:57.420
come in and inexplicably say something is really, truly terrible

1531
01:08:57.420 --> 01:08:58.859
when it's actually kind of great.

1532
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:00.779
You know, Gemma does that all the time.

1533
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:04.260
And then there'll always be someone going, oh, you know, actually

1534
01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:05.760
I thought this was okay.

1535
01:09:05.819 --> 01:09:08.699
And there's someone else are trying to go, yeah, I didn't mind it

1536
01:09:08.699 --> 01:09:12.239
either. you know, like, so that's quite refreshing. sometimes go

1537
01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:12.600
the other way.

1538
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:16.680
This doesn't look like a popular one to the jammer band anyway.

1539
01:09:16.739 --> 01:09:19.979
No, but I mean, there's kind of a thing where it's just like if

1540
01:09:19.979 --> 01:09:23.520
Star Trek isn't doing what we've always done before, then we don't

1541
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.979
like it, and that's the opposite of what I think.

1542
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:27.119
You know, like I...

1543
01:09:27.180 --> 01:09:28.439
It's a peculiar thing, isn't it?

1544
01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:29.159
Yeah, yeah.

1545
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:32.579
Star Wars fan base is probably worse, though, you know, when those

1546
01:09:32.579 --> 01:09:34.680
new episodes, but I mean, all of them do it.

1547
01:09:34.739 --> 01:09:38.039
Like, it's just like the problem isn't that the show has changed

1548
01:09:38.100 --> 01:09:39.659
that you're not 10 anymore.

1549
01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:43.859
And really, you know, that's the issue.

1550
01:09:43.859 --> 01:09:45.000
Who could you be talking about?

1551
01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:52.439
Yeah, Doctor Who's worth all of the others put together.

1552
01:09:52.500 --> 01:09:53.520
Jesus Christ.

1553
01:09:53.579 --> 01:09:54.720
Well, I don't think it is.

1554
01:09:54.779 --> 01:09:56.640
I think it's endemics throughout the whole thing.

1555
01:09:56.699 --> 01:09:58.500
And like Star Trek is like that.

1556
01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:03.539
And, you know, like, do you remember, there's that, there's the

1557
01:10:03.539 --> 01:10:07.739
thing from Strangely World Series 3 and it was that clip that they

1558
01:10:07.739 --> 01:10:10.680
released ages and ages ago at a Comic-Con or something like that.

1559
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:14.819
And it's the clip where some of the characters get turned into

1560
01:10:14.819 --> 01:10:15.600
Vulcans.

1561
01:10:15.659 --> 01:10:17.880
Remember that where Pike...

1562
01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:18.420
Oh, yeah.

1563
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:19.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1564
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:20.220
Who else?

1565
01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:21.000
Ahura.

1566
01:10:21.060 --> 01:10:27.899
And I think, um, uh, Nurse Chapel and maybe someone else.

1567
01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:30.000
There a horrific reaction to it.

1568
01:10:30.060 --> 01:10:34.500
Well, people accusing it of racism because like it turned those

1569
01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:37.380
people into Vulcans and they started behaving like stereotypes.

1570
01:10:37.380 --> 01:10:41.159
And like, when you do know that they're made up, It's not an

1571
01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:42.119
actual race.

1572
01:10:42.180 --> 01:10:43.380
Oh, Nathan, they don't.

1573
01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:44.279
They don't.

1574
01:10:44.340 --> 01:10:48.420
And the guy said, no, but they've been used to represent, you know

1575
01:10:48.420 --> 01:10:51.359
racial difference and to talk about racism.

1576
01:10:51.420 --> 01:10:54.359
It's just like, yes, but they're made up and they can be used to

1577
01:10:54.359 --> 01:10:55.140
do something else.

1578
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:59.100
It turns out that episode's called 4.5 Vulcans because obviously

1579
01:10:59.100 --> 01:11:02.939
Spock is the half Falcon and the others are full.

1580
01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.439
A racist title.

1581
01:11:04.500 --> 01:11:05.760
Guess what?

1582
01:11:05.819 --> 01:11:11.460
There's no way that what we don't what we, what we learn, we have

1583
01:11:11.460 --> 01:11:15.960
to learn from this episode, that the true Vulcan is Spock, because

1584
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:17.939
it's not about your DNA.

1585
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:21.899
It's about how you've grown up and what you've experienced and all

1586
01:11:21.899 --> 01:11:22.680
of that sort of thing.

1587
01:11:22.739 --> 01:11:25.140
And he's a Vulcan because he's had the experience of being a

1588
01:11:25.140 --> 01:11:28.260
Vulcan, not because he's been turned into a Vulcan by their sort

1589
01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:32.460
of comedy beams or it's an injection or some fucking thing.

1590
01:11:32.579 --> 01:11:35.220
Don't ask me whether these people think this stuff is real.

1591
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:38.520
I've seen the footage of them going to the Star Trek experience

1592
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:40.800
you know, where you actually get to go on the Enterprise Bridge

1593
01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:45.960
and then they step back into reality and go, oh, no, holodeck off

1594
01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:48.119
when they go outside the building, you know?

1595
01:11:48.180 --> 01:11:49.140
End program.

1596
01:11:49.739 --> 01:11:51.300
No, no.

1597
01:11:51.300 --> 01:11:52.680
And I do, you know what?

1598
01:11:52.739 --> 01:11:56.520
I have also like watched the Trekkies documentary, you know, and

1599
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:58.560
the various sequels that they are.

1600
01:11:58.619 --> 01:12:02.579
And of course, I was highly amused at that fellow, you know, who

1601
01:12:02.579 --> 01:12:06.239
wasn't disabled, went down the street in a Captain Pike wheelchair

1602
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:10.140
and that fellow that and his mates that go down McDonald's dressed

1603
01:12:10.140 --> 01:12:13.260
up as Klingons for some reason, and the fellow who decks out his

1604
01:12:13.260 --> 01:12:16.979
dentist surgery, like the Bridge of the Enterprise, and all this

1605
01:12:16.979 --> 01:12:17.279
stuff.

1606
01:12:17.340 --> 01:12:21.840
But you really get a sense of the community and how they're living

1607
01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:24.720
their life to a set of ideals from Star Trek.

1608
01:12:24.779 --> 01:12:27.359
So they're sort of living their best life.

1609
01:12:27.420 --> 01:12:28.619
Yeah.

1610
01:12:28.619 --> 01:12:33.060
However, there's always going to be a party.

1611
01:12:33.960 --> 01:12:37.920
Like, I mean, weird people, like, you know, how many hours of this

1612
01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:42.600
show have we watched and podcasted about?

1613
01:12:42.659 --> 01:12:49.199
Yeah, but Nathan, it's sort of like 70% hanging with you, 30%.

1614
01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:53.100
We just chose to talk about Star Trek.

1615
01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:53.880
Do you know what I mean?

1616
01:12:53.939 --> 01:12:55.260
And we know it, we think about it.

1617
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:56.640
We have opinions about it and stuff.

1618
01:12:56.699 --> 01:13:01.619
And it, like, for me, like, caring about some media thing, like

1619
01:13:01.619 --> 01:13:07.979
Doctor Who or Star Trek was what, like, caring enough about that

1620
01:13:07.979 --> 01:13:11.819
kind of narrative was perhaps more than, you know, doing English

1621
01:13:11.819 --> 01:13:16.680
at school and stuff. what taught me to be a critic, what taught me

1622
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:21.000
to look and at, you know, how techs are constructed and how they

1623
01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:22.199
work and what they're trying to do.

1624
01:13:22.260 --> 01:13:26.640
And, you know, thinking about why people are making certain

1625
01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:29.460
choices in a, in a drama or whatever.

1626
01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:33.000
And you know, like I studied that stuff at university as well.

1627
01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:38.399
But, you know, like, I think my 1st love is talking about Doctor

1628
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:40.199
Who and why it is the way it is.

1629
01:13:40.260 --> 01:13:44.039
I think my 1st life is studying television.

1630
01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:44.640
Yeah, yeah.

1631
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:48.479
And the fact is, is the 2 sort of big podcasts I do.

1632
01:13:48.539 --> 01:13:50.159
So my Doctor Who one and this.

1633
01:13:50.220 --> 01:13:52.020
It's studying.

1634
01:13:52.140 --> 01:13:54.899
It's so interesting because it's studying TV that's over 50 years

1635
01:13:54.899 --> 01:13:55.319
old.

1636
01:13:55.380 --> 01:14:00.060
So you can look at how it was made then, how it's made now, how it

1637
01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:01.800
evolved, all the different actors.

1638
01:14:01.859 --> 01:14:06.180
There's so much to compare and contrast, like, you know, Star Trek

1639
01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:11.819
and Doctor Who on 2 sides of the pond are like TV in a microcosm

1640
01:14:11.819 --> 01:14:12.060
right?

1641
01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:14.939
It's just everything and how much it changed and what works and

1642
01:14:14.939 --> 01:14:15.659
what doesn't.

1643
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:18.659
Um, I'm not saying the fact that they're Star Trek and Doctor Who

1644
01:14:18.659 --> 01:14:19.260
isn't important.

1645
01:14:19.260 --> 01:14:22.140
Because, something true, I saw those shows.

1646
01:14:22.199 --> 01:14:22.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1647
01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:27.060
But it really does allow you to study television. over an extended

1648
01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:27.479
period.

1649
01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:28.140
Yeah.

1650
01:14:28.199 --> 01:14:29.039
Yeah.

1651
01:14:29.100 --> 01:14:30.060
Yeah.

1652
01:14:30.119 --> 01:14:33.060
And so I think, you know, like we we bitch about sort of fans

1653
01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:36.899
being unimaginative or conservative or reactionary or whatever, but

1654
01:14:36.899 --> 01:14:40.979
like those shows have inspired all sorts of people to be creative

1655
01:14:40.979 --> 01:14:45.180
and to, you know, make connections and stuff. be scientists. and

1656
01:14:45.180 --> 01:14:45.840
things like that, you know?

1657
01:14:45.899 --> 01:14:47.159
Wonderful.

1658
01:14:47.279 --> 01:14:48.420
Yeah.

1659
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:53.279
But fuck those guys, honestly.

1660
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:55.560
Yeah, can't you out that bears?

1661
01:14:55.560 --> 01:14:55.979
The end.

1662
01:14:56.880 --> 01:14:58.500
Go on.

1663
01:14:58.500 --> 01:15:00.539
End on that. end on that bit.