WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 22:02:55

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we're aboard the Starship Voyager this week for an episode from series six.

3
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It's series 6, episode five.

4
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Alice.

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First broadcast on the 20th of October, 1999.

6
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Teleplay by Brian Fuller and Michael Taylor.

7
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So Brian Fuller, who brought you Discovery and directed by the ever reliable, um, let me say, David Livingston.

8
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Michael Taylor that gave us counterpoint and in the Power Moonlight, which regardless of what you might think about that episode, it is considered an absolute banger.

9
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

10
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No, I think it's good.

11
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I don't think it's as good as everyone else does.

12
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But Brian Fuller brought us discovery.

13
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I mean, these are proper Star Trek people.

14
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It's based on an idea by a woman called Julianne Delane, and this is her only writing credit.

15
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Are you sure it wasn't based on an idea by Stephen King?

16
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It was also based on an idea by Stephen King.

17
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I'm at a big Stephen King fan, and so I don't really know about Christine beyond, you know, a vague idea of what it's about.

18
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It's kind of reputation, but clearly that's what we're going for here.

19
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How did you find this episode?

20
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It was fucking tedious is what it was.

21
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So incredibly boring.

22
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And I have to watch it twice because in my haste to watch it the 1st time.

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I watched it last week and I thought, well, I better refresh myself.

24
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Maybe it's got better in a week.

25
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Oh boy.

26
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I sent you a message saying that, you know, I woke up, I had a good sleep.

27
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I had a bath, you know, I did some exercise, I meditated.

28
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So I was prepared for Alice this time.

29
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I was not prepared for Alice this time and it was still fucking tedious.

30
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Um, the one piece of trivia, I have to give you about this, is a random, and you know when it's a dog because a memory alpha gives you nothing.

31
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They will pull quotes out of any old person's or memory alpha, you know, any bit of data.

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There's one quote about Alice.

33
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So clearly everyone's forgotten about this one and that's Brandon Bragger going, yes, sir.

34
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I think this episode was based on the Stephen King novel, Christine.

35
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Thanks, Brannon.

36
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That's it.

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That's it.

38
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I think it's an episode with absolutely no characteristics, no positive qualities.

39
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It is on autopilot.

40
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It is the 1st episode.

41
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If we decided that we didn't have an order of 26 episodes to fulfil this season.

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This would be the 1st one to go because it's got nothing interesting in its premise.

43
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It isn't about anything.

44
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It is just absolute routine voyager stuff done incredibly boringly.

45
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It has one reasonable guest role and one incredibly boring guest role, the titular Alice, the eponymous Alice. who I think is really not very good at all, but as sexy as a flopping wet trout.

46
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But the whole thing was so incredibly boring.

47
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Like, I don't know what I'm supposed to gain out of it.

48
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There's nothing enjoyable about it.

49
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And it also cements the worst Roberts role as kind of the worst leading man for a Voyager episode, but also as just a complete asshole.

50
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And it's a big problem with the episode because he behaves really poorly to Balana all the way through in a way that is consistent with his character.

51
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She actually sort of talks about how he's kind of like this all the time.

52
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Janeway says it.

53
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She goes, you've had issues with his hobbies in the past.

54
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

55
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So this is kind of consistent with his normal behaviour.

56
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And then we wipe it all away at the end because he's a white guy and it's kind of like, oh, it's not my fault.

57
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I was just sleepwalker watching it.

58
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Well, get there.

59
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Shocking.

60
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We're just friends, Nathan.

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Just friends.

62
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Why does she put up with this cunt?

63
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I don't understand.

64
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No, that's exactly it.

65
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And so if the episode's about anything, It appears to be about what a truly awful person Tom Paris is.

66
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There just is no space in Star Trek anymore for a character like Tom Paris, is there?

67
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He is a specifically 90s character.

68
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This sort of arrogant, obnoxious jock that people seem to admire in the mid 90s.

69
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Like that now in, you know, masculinity has taken a turn for the positive, you know, and we're far more open about our feelings now, you know, and we are just better men.

70
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I think in general, not everybody, but in general, where if you dumped on Paris now in the middle of a, I don't know, discovery episode or something like, he would just be an anathema, it would just be outrageous to have somebody behaving like that.

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In fact, it made me think a little bit about Erica from Strange New Worlds, who is also a pilot and someone who revels in being a pilot, but because she's on, on the Enterprise in Strange New Worlds.

72
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She's charming, she's funny, like genuinely funny.

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She says things that are actually funny, rather than just sort of bad lines that the scriptwriter thinks might be funny or resemble funny lines enough to kind of actually stand in for a funny line, which we can't think of.

74
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All right, folks, we will quote those in this episode or as they go.

75
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

76
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But it got me to thinking about like Julian and Miles in DS9, right?

77
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Of course presented as sort of, well, maybe not Julian.

78
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They're presented as heterosexual men in a bromance, right?

79
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Like Tom and Harry.

80
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Like they love hanging out together.

81
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They say they love each other.

82
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They're tactile with each other.

83
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They get drunk together.

84
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I don't know.

85
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There is just a different vibe.

86
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They're just not obnoxious pricks in the way that Tom Barris is.

87
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Yeah, yeah.

88
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It's really weird actually like having all this dialogue about Tom and Harry being best friends, but I couldn't say anything about their friendship at all.

89
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Like, I, you know, like we're constantly told it's a thing and they do banter, but I don't know what, what do they do?

90
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They go and play Captain Proton together.

91
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I guess that's kind of it.

92
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At one point, someone goes, isn't Tom your best friend?

93
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And Harry goes, oh, yeah, he says that.

94
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I'm not quite sure what it means, though.

95
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Like, no, we don't know what it means either.

96
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No.

97
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Yeah.

98
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So that relationship's not very interesting.

99
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And then the Balana Tom relationship, because when he's possessed, he just says the things that he always says to her.

100
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Yeah, just screams to him and that's what I thought.

101
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Yeah, that's right.

102
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So I think that's really terrible.

103
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I think there is room, like that this episode had it been more carefully thought through could have been about Tom's behaviour, like could have been a comment.

104
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Tom's behaviour.

105
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

106
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And maybe he learned something about not being such a prick, but of course he doesn't do that because he's a white guy immune to criticism.

107
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And so in fact, B'Elana is kind of given the job of making sure he's okay at the end.

108
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She's the one who's been asphyxiated and yelled at, and she's given the job of making sure that Tom is okay emotionally at the end of the episode.

109
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And so that fails and craters in a spectacularly bad way.

110
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And then the other version of the episode that's good is where it's a mood piece where it's well directed and genuinely creepy, where you have a guest star who kind of knows what they're doing.

111
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So this guest star is called Claire Rankin.

112
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She plays Alice.

113
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She is doing it in this sort of wide-eyed way.

114
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There's a little bit of steel there.

115
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She's kind of okay, but mostly she's just sort of doing staring.

116
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I just thought she looked vacant for a hour.

117
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Yeah, yeah.

118
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She's saying the lines, but she's saying them utterly without passion, and she's supposed to be this sort of, you know, she's supposed to be the sexy female version of a sports car.

119
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

120
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And the only thing that I could think of that was like this is an episode of Deep Space 9 that we've already done called The Muse, where we had Meg Foster.

121
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Jake's face... creative juices out.

122
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And it was about Jake's obsession and the way that Jake's obsession was harming him in the way, you know, you know, the thing that he was super interested in, the thing that he did all the time, and she was draining his lifeblood because of the obsession and she was fostering the obsession so she could do that.

123
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That episode seemed like a right winner, didn't it?

124
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Well, I mean, I thought that that episode was much better than everyone else thinks it is.

125
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And I thought she was magnificent.

126
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She was great.

127
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She was ominous and scary.

128
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She was sexy.

129
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She was really forceful.

130
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You could see why she did whatever she said.

131
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She had those eyes. amazing eyes.

132
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So there's a version of this episode where it's well directed where it's atmospheric where David Bell is bothering to give a shit about the score because the score is so bad.

133
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It's so generic.

134
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It feels like it's been procedurally generated.

135
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There's no horror in there.

136
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No, exactly.

137
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No one gets killed.

138
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We have the perfect chance to kill John Flex character off. you know, so that it's like a horror film.

139
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He just grabs his head and falls sort of off.

140
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He just grabs his head and then wakes up in Sigmay.

141
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In Christine, in the in the book, that car goes round, man, that's blood flying.

142
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There's organs flying it.

143
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Mashes into people.

144
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It goes into crowds.

145
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What you need is this bloody shuttlecraft, and we will talk about the design of this Tinker toy shuttlecraft, the sexiest sports car in the galaxy.

146
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We need that.

147
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Smashing through the walls of the ship, you know, tearing up people. of it.

148
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It's just this boring woman walking around the corridors with Tom Paris going, Tom, I need you.

149
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Tom, Nick the reactor coils.

150
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Tom, let's pilot a course out of here.

151
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Oh my god.

152
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Yeah.

153
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It's I mean, it's really, really quite bad.

154
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I think.

155
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It's the dullest version of this story they possibly could have presented to us.

156
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Yeah, I know, I left me pining for Genesis, which at least, you know, abysmal episode.

157
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But fuck me, they went for it.

158
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You know, they went for the horror.

159
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You had people's chest burst open and people spitting acid in people's faces and things like that.

160
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You know, oh boy, even the technology is boring.

161
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You know, when he's in the ship and that thing comes over his eye.

162
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It's so boring.

163
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The graphics are boring.

164
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The nebula at the end was boring.

165
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I was like, will they show me any visual interest in this episode?

166
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No, no.

167
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And, you know, partly it's because Voyager can't go that far.

168
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I can't do horror.

169
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It's a sort of network TV show and stuff.

170
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And it can't do real proper body horror, all that.

171
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Much.

172
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You don't know.

173
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But it could go further than that.

174
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Oh, it looked terrible.

175
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But you remember when they did that ball thing with all the heads. in that massive mashup of bodies and things.

176
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They are willing to do it.

177
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They chose not to do it here.

178
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They choke.

179
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I think they were relying on this whoever was cast. to bring this to life, you know?

180
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And if you had somebody like Jerry Ryan or somebody like that playing the role, you're like fucking gorgeous and you can absolutely see why Tom Paris would be seduced by her.

181
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But this was this woman's name?

182
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Claire Rankin.

183
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Claire Rankin, have you had a career after this?

184
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I should check out.

185
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I actually think she has.

186
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And she is in Stargate Atlantis, I think, is a regular.

187
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So he does have a career.

188
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Who the hell would she?

189
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I could have completely misremembered that.

190
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Maybe it was Sequest DSV.

191
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It was something to do with water, but she did have a regular roll in something, but she isn't doing the right thing here.

192
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And, you know, like it has to be down to David Livingston, I think, because he's got to be saying, don't do it like that.

193
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You need to be doing it like this.

194
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And I will say this until I'm blue in the face.

195
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David Livingstone gave us stuff like crossover and deadlock.

196
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He can put dynamic Star Trek, like action-packed Star Trek on the screen.

197
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A really exciting episode.

198
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So I think at this point, he's probably done 100 episodes by this point.

199
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And he's just like, oh, it's point the camera, that boring actress, and let's get out some lunch.

200
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The scene that irritated me most in this whole thing was the bit where Tom slams B'Elana against the wall and is screaming in her face.

201
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Because I'll tell you now, right?

202
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If you and me was in a relationship and you, oh, actually, you can slam me up against the wall.

203
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That could be fun.

204
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But you know what I mean.

205
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I'll be out.

206
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No matter what, whether you are taking over my technology or what?

207
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I'd be like, do you know what?

208
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You're capable.

209
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I'm done.

210
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And you're also an obnoxious prat most of the time anyway.

211
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It's not you.

212
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Of course not.

213
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No, no, no.

214
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We're talking to Tom, obviously.

215
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I do think, however, you give the Voyager writers too much credit, you know, because I think that if there was a whiteboard of all of the season 6 episodes of Voyager, you know, up there, and they were told, look, guys, I'm so sorry, but we've got a coal, half the season.

216
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We're only putting out 13 episodes this year.

217
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I think they would, they would have gone.

218
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They would spend at least 10 minutes going, Alice, I don't know.

219
00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:04.679
Riddles, the one where Chivot loses his memory.

220
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What about the one on the little dwarf planet where the doctor said, I'm not sure.

221
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Some cartsy.

222
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I don't know.

223
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:10.919
Which one should we lose?

224
00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:13.860
No, I don't have the faith, but they would go.

225
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I think they think this is a perfectly competent bit of Star Trek.

226
00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:18.659
Yeah.

227
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:21.360
But I mean, in a sense, there's just nothing to it.

228
00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:23.519
And you know what I blame for this.

229
00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:31.860
You know what I blame for, this, for threshold, for any dog turd of a Tom Paris episode that we've sat through on titled Star Trek, bro?

230
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:37.440
I blame the 1st duty for this because that's such a good episode and he gives such a great performance in that episode.

231
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:52.259
But they, I think because of the reaction to that episode and that character, which was very favourable, they thought, right, we're going to plant that character into Star Trek Voyager and it just isn't sustainable for a long period of time.

232
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:59.460
It works as a single episode, sort of obnoxious twas, manipulating, manipulating the people at the academy.

233
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:05.399
But as a as a long-running character in this show, this this obnoxious twat.

234
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:06.539
It's just tedious.

235
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:07.980
I don't know why they can't see it.

236
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:09.600
No, it's terrible.

237
00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:10.799
Wow.

238
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:13.500
Actually, I know.

239
00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:18.059
This visually boring, unambitious, terribly active episode.

240
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:19.679
All right.

241
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:21.299
Well, we might run out of things to say.

242
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.399
If we just find ourselves staring at one another.

243
00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:25.799
I'm reving up to go, you know.

244
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:26.700
Okay, all right.

245
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:27.600
In our last, okay.

246
00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:37.259
All right, in which case I will count it in, five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

247
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:42.059
No, if that was the worst joke I've ever told, you shouldn't have even given me the half little giggle there.

248
00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:46.860
Okay.

249
00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.259
I'm going to tell you the answer to this.

250
00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:51.000
We start off on banter.

251
00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:54.120
And it's really boring, banter.

252
00:15:54.179 --> 00:15:54.960
It's not funny.

253
00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:56.519
Like, no one is funny.

254
00:15:56.580 --> 00:16:10.019
And in fact, the only person who comes off looking good is Tuvok, who just says, actually, I'm not going to engage in this, but for those of you who haven't already looked it up on memory alpha, he is actually about 112.

255
00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:12.960
Why didn't they just look it up on memory Alpha themselves?

256
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:15.120
I don't know. don't know.

257
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:17.700
Of course it exists within the Star Show universe somewhere.

258
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:18.480
It does.

259
00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:19.980
No, it's in it from an episode.

260
00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.399
Come on Although this does remind me of my work.

261
00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:24.240
I've got to be honest.

262
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:31.860
I'm the Chevok in this situation, and you know, you have to hang out with these really boring idiots and listen to something, inane chit chat all day.

263
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:37.139
So I could feel Chewfog's pain here. of them are listening, do you think?

264
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.940
Oh, I hope they are.

265
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:39.840
Finally.

266
00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:41.519
The shrimp is revealed.

267
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:42.899
No.

268
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:47.279
I mean, they've got the smarts to listen to a Star Trek podcast, if I'm honest.

269
00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:49.799
Oh my god, it's K-mole group.

270
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:51.600
And that's the other thing.

271
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:54.600
Can I just say Kate is so absent from this episode.

272
00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:59.399
She's in this scene, which is just a completely functional scene on the bridge.

273
00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:02.940
And then she comes in like 30 minutes or something.

274
00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:06.059
I don't give a shit about Tom Paris.

275
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.200
Why would she be involved in this?

276
00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:08.640
No, no.

277
00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:09.240
All right.

278
00:17:09.299 --> 00:17:11.579
I reckon Kate read the script.

279
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:12.779
And she went, do you know what?

280
00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:14.099
There's a few more scenes.

281
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:15.000
Take them out, will you?

282
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:15.960
right, that's right.

283
00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:17.099
Oh, this week off.

284
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:18.180
Let Bobby do it.

285
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:19.799
Oh, here's an appetal.

286
00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:21.779
Yeah, so this is Abaddon.

287
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.880
He is played by John Fleck.

288
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:29.519
John Fleck has been in every single 90s Star Trek show.

289
00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:30.420
Tell me.

290
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.519
So he is...

291
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.140
I love this corner of USTP.

292
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:34.859
Who?

293
00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:38.279
Yeah, he's silly, the Sulliban semi-regular in enterprise.

294
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.160
Oh, what, and all that yellow makeup?

295
00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:42.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

296
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.279
Okay, well, no wonder I didn't recognise him there.

297
00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:46.920
He plays tie back.

298
00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:50.579
Tybach in the mind's eye, one of the Romulans in the mind's eye.

299
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.700
He did get to be in one good episode then.

300
00:17:53.759 --> 00:18:01.079
He plays someone called Ornitha or possibly an Ornitha in the search part one.

301
00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:07.440
He is the Romulan Koval in Interarmor NMC Lent Leges.

302
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:08.640
Yes, he is.

303
00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:11.220
And that's a great turn. in that episode.

304
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:11.880
Yeah.

305
00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.480
So, and he's also the Krilla ambassador in the Orville.

306
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.480
And he's very camp in Alice.

307
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:19.500
He's very camp.

308
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:20.339
And I think he's gay.

309
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:21.900
Like, I think the actor himself is queer.

310
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.339
He's got a long sort of sheepskin jacket, isn't he?

311
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:31.559
Yeah, but he looks like he looks like when you tread on a cockroach.

312
00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:33.119
Do you know what I mean?

313
00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:33.900
Like...

314
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.440
Like, that's all...

315
00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.680
I don't see many cockroaches, you know, and given the cleanliness of my house.

316
00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.480
That is a surprise, but...

317
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.480
We have giant ones in the garden in Australia that would take your leg off.

318
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:46.440
They're fucking annoying.

319
00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:47.460
Do you step on them, Nathan?

320
00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:48.240
Sometimes.

321
00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:50.039
Do they look like John Flack?

322
00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:51.240
They pretty much do.

323
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:56.160
These is a good, solid, like 9.7, 9.8 on the Beaumont scale.

324
00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:59.279
It's a very ugly, ugly makeup job.

325
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:01.920
And but I've got to say I don't know why they do it.

326
00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:06.119
His character in the opening scenes was amiable enough.

327
00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:16.500
I was sort of like, okay, I'm not on board, but this is still very functional Voyager. because this is exactly how we met Neelix back in the day, which leads me onto the one thing I like about this episode.

328
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.299
Oh, Neelix in here.

329
00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:20.099
Surprisingly, isn't Neelix?

330
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.880
Because anything that leans into Neelix's old timer's a trade-out.

331
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:29.759
So here in a minute when he goes, oh, I want some of this, you know, whole plating that you've got and chew.

332
00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:33.359
Sorry, Chikoso is very boring going, We haven't got any of that to spare, I'm afraid.

333
00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:40.680
And Nelix is like, commander, don't we have, and he's sort of doing his bartering and his trading and that's the Neelix I love.

334
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:42.059
So this was fun.

335
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:42.960
This was quite fun.

336
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:45.059
And the 2 of them kind of hit it off, I think.

337
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.940
Like, I think John Fleck is a very charismatic actor.

338
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.099
I think he's very good generally.

339
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:54.960
And this is a very boring part, but he is probably the best thing about it.

340
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:55.440
I think.

341
00:19:55.500 --> 00:20:00.900
It's nice when he comes in now and goes, oh, I recognised immediately the demeanour, the sharp clothes.

342
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.220
Yeah, yeah, the 3rd divine.

343
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:09.960
I just measure walking around the transporter by ready to rip it up and say, I'll have this and that and the other.

344
00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:17.940
And I like the fact as well that his technology junkyard, you know, is just mostly a load of crap, isn't it?

345
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.380
Seven says it at one point.

346
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.299
She goes, yeah, most of it's utterly useless.

347
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.440
Yeah, yeah.

348
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:25.079
And isn't there a junkyard?

349
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:30.539
There is a junkyard, I think, in late TNG?

350
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:35.819
I can't remember, but they come across a junkyard very similar to this in a late TNG episode.

351
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.200
I can't remember now.

352
00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:39.539
I mean, it is a very, very nothing premise.

353
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.460
This is the bit now where Tom Paris 1st spots Alice.

354
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:45.240
He goes, 0 my god.

355
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:54.059
Look at that, grade 47 or whatever it is, and it is the most cheapest looking spaceship you have ever seen in your life.

356
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.819
Tom even says, no, sorry.

357
00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.440
Harry says it's a bit of junk.

358
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:00.180
Yeah, yeah.

359
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.500
And you're exactly right.

360
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:09.180
They can design it to look however it wants, but they make it look like just the most generic small spaceship that they can find.

361
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:15.839
It's probably redressed from some other pod that they've used in a previous episode.

362
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:22.440
It has all of these design elements that look like, you know, Deep Space 9 design elements.

363
00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:25.799
But we love the spaceship designs in 90s trade, right?

364
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:27.420
On the whole, they're pretty great.

365
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.660
But the shuttle pod, the shuttle pod is ugly.

366
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:34.140
It's got these squat legs that look really ridiculous.

367
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:39.059
And it looks nothing like a sexy sports car and that's what it's got to look like, I think.

368
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.700
There's an attempt to make the interior.

369
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:47.099
By using that teal colour and the upholstery and the way that the panels...

370
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:53.400
I mean, I know what you're saying, but the design of it is still so ten-a-penny Voyager spaceship design.

371
00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:54.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

372
00:21:54.059 --> 00:22:01.079
But there is an attempt, I think, to make it look like a sort of 50s. uh, you know, and it has flashing lights.

373
00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.779
There's a scene where we see the flashing lights on the thing, which I kind of like.

374
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.539
But these people are not incompetent designers, right?

375
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.839
And they've seen sports cars. on every street in America.

376
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:11.220
Like, fucking hell.

377
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.720
Just design something sexy.

378
00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:17.339
I think that I think that probably it was just cost, you know, we're doing one episode.

379
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.200
We just pull out the...

380
00:22:19.259 --> 00:22:19.859
A few fins on it?

381
00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:20.819
Yeah, yeah.

382
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.019
A flame on the side.

383
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:23.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

384
00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:24.240
Yeah.

385
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:27.420
Sorry, we can't afford stickers this week, you know.

386
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.640
Why isn't it red as well?

387
00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:33.299
You know, like even as white, why is it green, isn't it?

388
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:34.380
It's really great.

389
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:34.619
Yeah.

390
00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:36.299
Yeah. terrible.

391
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:41.640
Oh, no, at least Tom's throwing in his jukebox, so Belada hasn't got to put up with that anymore.

392
00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:44.400
He's got a new obsession every year.

393
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:45.180
Have you noticed?

394
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.279
You know, cartoons one year.

395
00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:50.940
It's Arachnia, Queen of the Spider people, one year.

396
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:52.319
Trucks, trucks.

397
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.799
But I mean, she calls him out for it.

398
00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:56.400
That's the thing.

399
00:22:56.460 --> 00:23:09.720
And there's actually the one bit of dialogue that I really liked was the 5 stages of acquisition, which are explained by Harry to Balana, and it's his best moment in the episode, and I thought it was a genuinely funny comment.

400
00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:14.579
It was what made me think that this could have been a commentary on Tom's behaviour.

401
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:19.019
Like, you know, I really hate all of this sexualising technology though as well.

402
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.039
It's so tedious Abidon, who, sorry, mate, you are gay.

403
00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:24.059
You're not convincing anybody.

404
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.359
He's walking down there going, you know, you got to treat her like a lady.

405
00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:30.900
You know, you gotta feather the clutch before you go out and things like that.

406
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.980
Oh, fuck off.

407
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.200
Yeah, no, that's terrible. my God.

408
00:23:34.259 --> 00:23:37.200
And I know I know if there are any straight men listening.

409
00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:38.220
I wonder.

410
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:41.339
We're the 2 gayest podcast out there.

411
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.240
They have to.

412
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.539
Sorry, Tom Salinski.

413
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:54.779
I know you people do sexualise your cars or, you know, at least personify them and give them girls names and things like that.

414
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:56.279
Stop doing it.

415
00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:57.599
It's tedious, all right?

416
00:23:57.660 --> 00:23:58.859
It's so boring.

417
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.359
Yeah, I don't know.

418
00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:06.119
I have a, I have a, I had the sexy Italian Siri for a while, which I enjoy.

419
00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:07.440
A male Siri.

420
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:09.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, too, right.

421
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:20.940
Yeah, like, I don't think, like, it's, there is something sort of creepy and tedious about, and you can't imagine it happening in a discovery episode, but it is a feature of Star Trek.

422
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:22.440
When it comes to stuff.

423
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:23.460
Oh, absolutely what?

424
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:24.900
Like personifying the ships and that.

425
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

426
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:28.319
But this is supposed to be sexy.

427
00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:31.019
So this is sexualising it. that's just shitty.

428
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:35.039
But also as well, when it comes to like Banana being jealous of a spaceship.

429
00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:36.720
I'm like what are we doing?

430
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:38.400
Like this is ridiculous.

431
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:44.819
Look at this technology with that thing over his head. so boring.

432
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:51.779
And so, and I'm kind of there going, when does this become more invasive?

433
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.740
Like, when is it visibly burrowing into him?

434
00:24:55.799 --> 00:25:02.640
Like if he's becoming one with the machine and that's scary and terrible, we should be able to see it.

435
00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:10.799
And we've done that stuff with the Borg, and their solution to it is so kind of vanilla and unthreatening.

436
00:25:10.859 --> 00:25:16.440
You know, some coloured wires attach themselves to his outfit and that's as scary as it gets.

437
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:19.559
And that could, again, have been a source of horror.

438
00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:21.119
Like, this could have been about horror.

439
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:29.579
I mean, it wouldn't have made this episode good, but you are right, you know, Ed McFoster appeared in a spaceship and started stroking his head and making him have orgasms.

440
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:31.859
At least I get it, you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

441
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:33.960
But look how ugly that fucking thing is.

442
00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:41.700
Like, I do like it in silhouette, there's an attempt to make it look, it looks scary. from behind and then it ends below. lights up.

443
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.579
But it's got these big fucking legs.

444
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:45.960
It looks so terrible.

445
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.059
Look a fucking table.

446
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:53.460
Nathan is that back there of the front of its buck teeth lighting up.

447
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.559
That's the scariest bit in the episode.

448
00:25:55.619 --> 00:26:01.259
And it's just the reference to the paperback cover of Christine.

449
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:02.039
Isn't that?

450
00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:08.579
Like, and the posters, they were always the grill of the car looking like it was sort of an insane mouth.

451
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:14.160
You know, I knew we was in terrible trouble when she started going, Tom.

452
00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:16.259
Can you hear me, Tom?

453
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.059
Come to Alice.

454
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:19.380
Has he got cold sauce?

455
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:20.880
What's happening with his mouth?

456
00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:22.920
It's so gross.

457
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.200
I just don't understand, banana.

458
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:27.420
She's so pressy and she's so charismatic.

459
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.880
Yeah, which is a good actor.

460
00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:31.500
Why is she good the worst drop?

461
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:32.640
Oh my god.

462
00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:34.799
Oh, and that's the other thing as well.

463
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:38.160
They've put her in that horrible gray jumpsuit.

464
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:41.759
Yeah, yeah. does not accentuate her figure.

465
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:43.140
And they know how to do this.

466
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.599
Did you see 7 of 9 when she's being on this show?

467
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:49.440
Like, why have you put her in like mechanics overalls?

468
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:50.220
I don't understand.

469
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:53.220
I did think that was quite a good shot of a bum.

470
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.980
Now, I think this is absolutely inexplicable.

471
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.140
So he goes, who are you?

472
00:26:58.259 --> 00:26:59.400
It's me, Alice.

473
00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:03.359
Alex But watch, he goes in.

474
00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:10.619
The door closes and we go to a break, and then we see him come into the room again.

475
00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:14.880
But this time it's sometimes later because he's used to Alice.

476
00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:18.119
And so we never see him meet Alice.

477
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:21.359
Why don't we see him meet Alice for the 1st time and react?

478
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:22.619
Have you seen the actress?

479
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.000
It would have been so disappointed.

480
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:26.640
It's time for a jaunty montage.

481
00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:30.839
Yeah, yeah, well, he fucking cleaned the car.

482
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.940
What is that?

483
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:38.220
That's so boring Oh, at least when they did this in Explorers.

484
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:46.680
Cisco was building, building from scratch, that beautiful lightship, you know, with a fabulous design.

485
00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:49.619
Why don't want to see him rubbing Alice's pistons?

486
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.019
Yeah, no, it's just so boring.

487
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.740
It looks so terrible in that costume as well.

488
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:56.819
I know.

489
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.839
Look at his hips.

490
00:27:57.900 --> 00:27:58.740
He's so hippie.

491
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.480
Like, he's like, he's...

492
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.839
But he's... gangly and it hangs off him.

493
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:07.500
It's such a baffling design. bum or something.

494
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:08.880
Like, so it's...

495
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:10.440
I did like Harry's costume here.

496
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:12.599
I mean, I don't like his shirt tucked into his trousers.

497
00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:14.400
That's always... no, I do.

498
00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:17.880
I think that's really a hot look and I love the fact that he's got buttons and a collar.

499
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:19.380
Like he, I think he looks right.

500
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:21.900
No, you realise that stuff, don't you?

501
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.299
I didn't think he was stocky, but he's a little stocky.

502
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:25.259
He's adorable.

503
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.920
But don't you think don't you think that he's dressed for playing Captain Proton?

504
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:30.059
why he's wearing those clothes?

505
00:28:30.059 --> 00:28:31.859
because it's 1950s?

506
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.900
He looks hot as anything in that outfit.

507
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.680
Oh, you've forgotten 2 days in a row, but oh, day. is unacceptable.

508
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:39.900
The web of pain.

509
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.059
Yeah, I'll bet they were going to the web.

510
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:46.019
That's what he tells me.

511
00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:47.880
We might play the web.

512
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.220
It's a good chapter.

513
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.200
Alice needs me.

514
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.460
So does arangnia.

515
00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:57.059
Oh boy.

516
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:58.980
Brian Fuller, man.

517
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.319
You are much better at characterising those discovery people.

518
00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:02.940
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

519
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.240
This is so like again, this is so incredibly dull.

520
00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:10.799
Maybe he learned all of the lessons of what not to do by writing these Voyager episodes.

521
00:29:10.859 --> 00:29:12.000
Yeah, maybe, you know.

522
00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:13.680
Actually, I quite like this scene.

523
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:16.980
Yeah, it's really quick, but it's quite weird.

524
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:22.740
But what I like is the way that 7 delivers the line, and it's not a funny line.

525
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:34.200
It's not a funny line, but like Jerry delivers it with a real wry smile, which is kind of a little bit unusual for her performance, and Neelix sees it and reacts to it, and it's actually really warm.

526
00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:35.099
Like, I really like it.

527
00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:38.579
So this thing is obviously important for the resolution, isn't it?

528
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:39.720
The baryllion crystal.

529
00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:40.079
Yeah.

530
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:46.920
I do like it as well because obviously he's got like a long history with knickknacks and things and trading.

531
00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:51.839
So he's gotten those, but obviously she's a Borg, so they've assimilated loads of species.

532
00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.000
So she's got that collective knowledge.

533
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:56.220
Man, these 2 together they could be formidable.

534
00:29:56.339 --> 00:30:00.420
And then she goes, need I remind you, all trades are final.

535
00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:01.920
And she said it really archly.

536
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:02.880
It's out of smiles.

537
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:06.779
Unfortunately, he becomes the worst, Robert.

538
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.720
I need some champagne to christen Alice.

539
00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:16.380
I have a girlfriend, you know, everyone here on and we sex each other sometimes.

540
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.839
Like, I mean, for God's sakes.

541
00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:22.680
Why didn't he look, take one look in the mirror and say, can can I wear something else?

542
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:23.579
I not wear that?

543
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:24.240
Anything?

544
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:26.880
Can I wear what Harry was wearing in the last thing jeans?

545
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.319
trousers.

546
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:31.259
Oh, this is quite funny.

547
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:37.019
See, this is another good Neelix scene where he's talking about his ship and he goes, oh, what, you fell in love with her at 1st sight.

548
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.420
No, it was the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

549
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:40.380
This says Nelix.

550
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:43.680
All I could think of was the ugly old tree from the word.

551
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:51.660
So this is like one of these sort of terrible Star Trek backstory moments, but it's over quite quickly.

552
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:58.680
There's another shitty one with Alison and Tom talking about the 1st time he ever flew.

553
00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:03.779
And I just wanted to break his arm and say great story, you know, like, like it was so bad.

554
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:10.079
I'm so pleased that Balada is getting some use out of those crimpers that Janeway brought her at Christmas, you know.

555
00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:11.339
They're awful.

556
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:12.420
Why are they doing that to me?

557
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:12.960
I don't know.

558
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:15.960
Because they have a little more like a wig now than ever before.

559
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:19.380
Her hair never, ever looks good, does it on the show?

560
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.420
It's shockingly bad always.

561
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.640
I wonder how much colour is in this in...

562
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:25.019
So we're in this cargo bay a lot.

563
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:27.839
It's a boring gray and dark green ship.

564
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:29.819
He's wearing grey overalls.

565
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:31.019
The walls are gray.

566
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:35.339
The bottle is black. like that's just, what the are we doing monochrome?

567
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

568
00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:39.359
And like, why is the sports car green?

569
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:47.640
I don't get it See, I kind of like this because this actually looks like it is going to be a little bit more normal, like, and she's really good.

570
00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:48.779
She's playing it properly.

571
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:49.799
Do you know what I mean?

572
00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:50.700
Because she's so charming.

573
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:53.940
Like, she felt champagne, though, on Alice, look.

574
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:54.599
Yeah, I know.

575
00:31:54.660 --> 00:31:56.700
Mind the upholstery, says.

576
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:08.759
But the one thing that I like is when it electrocutes her and he goes, oh, yeah, I should fix that, which I thought was actually pretty good because it kind of defangs the idea that it's, oh, yeah, don't.

577
00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:10.920
This bit where he goes. we'll go on a trip together.

578
00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:12.299
It would be a tight squeeze.

579
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:13.740
Oh, God.

580
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:14.819
Yeah.

581
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.240
It's like when Miles and Keiko, you know, get at it.

582
00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:19.559
I don't want to watch it.

583
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:20.579
Yeah, I don't want to say that.

584
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:27.839
In discovery, you know, in Kurtzman Trek, they learned to put, you know, just unbelievably sexual people on the screen.

585
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.839
So you're just instantly hard no matter what.

586
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:36.599
So you can all have sex with each other. more flaccid than I am watching this episode of that one is.

587
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.880
But look at her.

588
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:42.180
Gosh, she's she, I mean, she's so good.

589
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.380
It's such a shame that they saddle her with this.

590
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.059
Well, no, they gave her the news as a as a payment for the at the end of the year.

591
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:51.779
Do you remember that episode?

592
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.220
Yeah, yeah. beautiful.

593
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:54.839
I think it was just called...

594
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.200
She's just like, they've just sort of remembered...

595
00:32:58.259 --> 00:32:58.920
Yeah.

596
00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.759
I think she's wonderful.

597
00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:08.099
I think she's really, really good, and she, like, it just seems a shame that she's so often paired up with him, so she just gets to be Tom's girlfriend.

598
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:14.700
And it's never, it's never like genuine development is always banter, isn't it?

599
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:15.779
And bad banter.

600
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.920
Yeah.

601
00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:20.339
Yeah, maybe we don't even see them get married, you know.

602
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:28.380
You remember when we watched you're quarterly invited, you know, in every scene, it was just about what the 2 of them mean to each other, why they get on, why they don't get on.

603
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.759
We were understanding their characters.

604
00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:31.440
Oh, learn nothing about these 2 in this.

605
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:36.960
And like those characters are not super nuanced and super kind of subtly drawn.

606
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:41.160
They're not super complex because it's like a sitcom or a soap opera.

607
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:42.299
We know how they're going to behave.

608
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:43.680
We know what they're like.

609
00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:48.599
But some thought is being given by the writers about how... who behave like that.

610
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:50.579
Yes, how they work together.

611
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:51.779
There's nothing here.

612
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:53.819
What does Tom C and Bilana?

613
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:55.440
What does Balana see in Tom?

614
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:56.579
Who can say nothing?

615
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:57.240
You know?

616
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:59.160
Why are Tom and Harry friends?

617
00:33:59.220 --> 00:33:59.700
I don't know.

618
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:03.359
Because they're stuck on the ship and there's no one else.

619
00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:05.400
That's kind of the answer, isn't it?

620
00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:09.960
That's where the only reason 7 of 9's friends with that wench Naomi Wildman.

621
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:14.639
So you get to mention a little bit later.

622
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:15.960
I've barely seen her, have we?

623
00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:16.980
All the voyages we've done.

624
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.840
She's quite a few, you know.

625
00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:21.119
Plus, she's in the, what is it?

626
00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:26.099
Top 30. 30 under 30, Federation's 30 under 30.

627
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:29.099
Even Naomi Wildman was I never forgot that.

628
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:29.639
She's 10.

629
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:33.300
She's still 10?

630
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.559
Apparently.

631
00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:37.079
She's already 10 at this point.

632
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:50.579
And this it just goes to show you now how they've just lost interest in this show because Chakotay now saying to him, oh, you're looking too scruffy, you're not paying attention to your work, this is exactly what we were doing in season two.

633
00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:57.480
Do you remember when Tom was pretending to be a rebel so we could get off and get in with Cesca underhandedly.

634
00:34:57.539 --> 00:35:01.619
It's like, God, oh, my. you're not even recycling old TNG cliches anymore.

635
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.719
You're recycling your own cliches.

636
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:04.500
Yeah.

637
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:12.360
I mean, the interesting thing about this scene, the one flicker of interest I had was, you know, at what point does he start rebelling?

638
00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:15.420
And like, even though that scene is super boring.

639
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.739
That scene with the 2 Roberts was really, really dull.

640
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:20.579
Oh, here's the woman.

641
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:24.239
So, we see her for the 1st time and her face is in shadow, and I thought that was a really good choice.

642
00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:28.739
Yeah, but unfortunately, we can see it now, yeah.

643
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:35.099
That's right But that seems really boring, but it is like it's Chakotay agrees with him.

644
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:36.480
You know, Tom agrees.

645
00:35:36.539 --> 00:35:38.159
It's not going to go any further.

646
00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:40.559
Everything's going to be fine and he's going to chill out.

647
00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:41.940
And I thought that was something.

648
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:47.159
You know when they bring together 2 actors, right, that have got to have chemistry.

649
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:48.900
How do they test that?

650
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.099
I don't know.

651
00:35:50.219 --> 00:35:53.940
Like, obviously, you can't have people, 2 people going into a room and snog.

652
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.440
I mean, that would be a nice, easy way of doing it because then you could go, 0 my god, look how hot they are together, you know?

653
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:04.619
But like, they must have realised when they brought these 2 together that there's just nothing there.

654
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:06.300
It just doesn't sizzle.

655
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:11.760
But I don't know that chemistry, like the sizzling thing is just a function of those 2 people together.

656
00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:15.480
I think it is a function of both of the actors selling it.

657
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:16.440
Do you know what I mean?

658
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:21.780
Like, I don't think there's an inherent chemistry between Renee and na.

659
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:22.500
Do you know what I mean?

660
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:26.880
Because they're both such good actors, they absolutely properly sell it.

661
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:28.320
She's so good.

662
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:32.699
In his way, she convinced us that she wanted to snog a Burns victim.

663
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:34.920
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

664
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.400
But this is so unsexy.

665
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:53.820
She's so uninterested in him It's also mild, you know, like, and then this, again, the sort of, I'm sitting here thinking some modifications I made to your flight suit, and it's like, I put some diamonds on the phone.

666
00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:57.420
I don't even notice the difference.

667
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.300
I was like... shocking.

668
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.599
Like, isn't it in some way meant to be shocking?

669
00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:08.400
They're clearly the things that the wires go into later.

670
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.559
And I'm sort of there going, oh, probably...

671
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.539
Is it sort of an interface with her at all times?

672
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:18.840
No, it's later on so that he can be properly wired into the ship and become part of the ship.

673
00:37:18.900 --> 00:37:25.260
These things restructuring his brain in a way that continues, like John Fleck still has a version of her in Spain.

674
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:26.760
It's just her body language.

675
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:30.480
I mean, she stands there so stiff with those crazy eyes.

676
00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:31.500
You know?

677
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:32.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

678
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:39.719
The crazy eyes, but there's no menace and there's no steel and it's not sexy and she needs to do all of those things.

679
00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:42.059
Oh, here she is.

680
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:43.019
Look, right in his face.

681
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.780
I mean, you know, I'm going to say something.

682
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.340
I do like his scruff there, you know.

683
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.619
Maybe you should keep the scruff.

684
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:50.940
It looks odd.

685
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:51.960
I think it looks odd.

686
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:53.519
He should grow a beard, really.

687
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:55.139
I just think that looks really odd.

688
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:56.280
If he's not been shaving, then.

689
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.619
Why is his neck clean shaven?

690
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:00.239
So he's been shaving everything.

691
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:03.840
Right now, as if she, like, wants to tear his clothes off, right?

692
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:06.480
But she's looking at as immersive to say, oh, who are you?

693
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:07.679
You know, like...

694
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:12.360
Please go and stroke my what's in a car.

695
00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:13.500
What do you have in a car?

696
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:14.519
I don't know.

697
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.340
Can't stroke my steering wheel. you know, like big end.

698
00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:20.760
That sounds rude.

699
00:38:20.820 --> 00:38:21.300
I don't know.

700
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:25.739
This velocity of...

701
00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:27.000
Who doesn't like...

702
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.679
I sent you the lost city and freedom.

703
00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:34.619
Nathan, they'll never understand you and me in podcasting velocity, freedom. you know.

704
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.380
Why doesn't she?

705
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.539
Why doesn't she say speed?

706
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.579
People talk about loving speed.

707
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:44.340
People who love cars, love speed.

708
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.980
It's not a person on each tree.

709
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.719
Velocity is not a person.

710
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:51.960
She's saying it as if like, this is, we are people of speed.

711
00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:52.559
What?

712
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:53.880
We are people have veil lot.

713
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.139
No, no, it's what she loves.

714
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.920
Oh, so this, this fucking scene, where it's too boring people.

715
00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:04.079
It's the most Star Trek scene imaginable where he's telling the story. the 1st time that he flew.

716
00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:07.980
And like it's so boring and so generic.

717
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:09.420
And what do we learn from it?

718
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:11.159
We learn that he likes flying.

719
00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:15.539
We knew that, you know, like it's so boring.

720
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:18.360
This moment of clarity when suddenly everything made sense.

721
00:39:18.420 --> 00:39:19.980
And like it could write itself.

722
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.980
It's just absolute...

723
00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:26.039
And it would make sense if this scene was in caretaker.

724
00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:29.760
So we understood who this person was as a character, but you're right.

725
00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:31.559
We've been with this fella for 6 years.

726
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

727
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:38.519
Oh, you just don't want those clumsy controls getting in the way.

728
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.099
Oh, yeah.

729
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.559
Just you and the stars.

730
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.659
Alice.

731
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:46.500
Oh boy.

732
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:47.219
Yeah, boy.

733
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:48.360
No, it's terrible.

734
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:51.000
I was sort of on a little run of podcasts, right?

735
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:54.300
I was watching Doctor and Star Trek now, and I was seeing lots of sexy women.

736
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:59.400
I was starting to wonder about myself, but Alice, you snapped me right back into homosexuality.

737
00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:00.119
Thank you very much.

738
00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:01.920
Mind you, he's Jerry.

739
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:03.119
Oh yeah, boy.

740
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:09.179
You know, not taking head of his shit instantly seeing through what he's doing.

741
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:19.380
And I just love the moment where he leaves and then she just goes up to the console and goes, all right, look up all that dumb shit that Tom was just doing.

742
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.159
Do you know what I mean?

743
00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:23.820
Like, he didn't even, and then later on she says, oh, I looked it up later and I think it's this.

744
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.340
It's kind of like, yeah, it was very clear that that's what you were doing.

745
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:28.980
She said, you have modified your garment.

746
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:32.639
I would have gone up to him and went, oh, you put 3 little diamonds on your garment.

747
00:40:32.699 --> 00:40:33.599
Oh, I was there.

748
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.000
Do you know what names like this?

749
00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:36.719
There's nothing.

750
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:38.460
Why is that not scary?

751
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:39.539
Like, why is that...

752
00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:41.579
It should be a great review as well?

753
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:43.440
Because there was a shot from behind where Alice isn't there.

754
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:48.960
Then the camera swings around and then suddenly she's there next to him, giving her weird fish eyes.

755
00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:52.559
Yeah, with no facial expression there, actually.

756
00:40:52.619 --> 00:40:53.760
None at all.

757
00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:55.260
You know what she reminds me of?

758
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.920
You know, when you have those sort of china dolls with a crazy sorcerer eyes, you know?

759
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.539
That's what she reminds me of.

760
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.239
There's just no emotion in her.

761
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:05.460
I mean, I suppose she is a car.

762
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.880
Yeah, I know, but like it's got to be sexier than that.

763
00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:10.980
The car is trying to seduce him.

764
00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:13.139
Oh boy.

765
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:13.980
Bad night.

766
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:15.179
Bad night sleep?

767
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:17.460
Bad night with Tom Paris.

768
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:20.699
Any night. supposed to be his best friend.

769
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.780
Oh, my God.

770
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:23.579
Did an AI generator.

771
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:25.559
Chew out and spit this dialogue out.

772
00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:27.599
But I like this.

773
00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:36.300
Infatuation, justification, appropriation, obsession and resale are the 5 Ferengi stages of, you know, stages of acquisition.

774
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:38.280
And then obsession.

775
00:41:38.340 --> 00:41:39.599
So you've only got one more stage.

776
00:41:39.659 --> 00:41:40.380
Then he's yours again.

777
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:42.179
And he says it in quite a relaxed way.

778
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:43.619
It's very Star Treky.

779
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:47.099
But did you see that by that .003 feel?

780
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:49.739
Yeah, check the bubble. some dialogue I can get behind.

781
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:53.039
So 00.3 parameter check.

782
00:41:53.099 --> 00:41:53.940
Oh, thank God.

783
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.980
Routine power sales.

784
00:41:56.099 --> 00:41:56.460
Lovely.

785
00:41:56.579 --> 00:42:00.840
But I thought that Ferengi stages of acquisition was actually pretty funny.

786
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.960
And, you know, it does sort of gesture towards what this could have been about.

787
00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:10.800
I've always said you're easily pleased, but I've never felt in more.

788
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:13.440
I'm not really easily pleased, but I did think that that was kind of nice.

789
00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:15.420
You know, it was an attempt to do something different.

790
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.599
Oh my god, this is boring shit.

791
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:21.000
Is this the bit where Alice tries to kill her?

792
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:23.280
direction is so flat.

793
00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:24.539
Yeah.

794
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.659
It should be like the door slamming down, you know.

795
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

796
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:29.639
That's right.

797
00:42:29.699 --> 00:42:35.639
Smudge everywhere and shadows and maybe Alice comes out and starts strangling her or something.

798
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:36.119
No.

799
00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:39.840
She literally just starts going...

800
00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:40.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

801
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:42.420
Why isn't there smoke?

802
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:42.780
Exactly.

803
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.900
The door gently shuts behind.

804
00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:50.519
She could have got out if she was quick enough.

805
00:42:50.579 --> 00:42:51.539
Fuck's sake.

806
00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:58.139
I think the woman playing Alice is more convincing, you know, when she's playing the computer.

807
00:42:58.260 --> 00:42:59.639
Yeah.

808
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:02.400
Yeah, she doesn't have to give any emotion there.

809
00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:03.599
Yeah, no.

810
00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:07.079
You wait till you go to bed tonight.

811
00:43:07.139 --> 00:43:12.599
All you'll see is the eyes coming out of the dark. need you, Nathan.

812
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:15.599
But was that her trying to be scary.

813
00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:16.739
Oh god.

814
00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:22.320
She's, she's slamming her pip, her hands against the glass.

815
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:25.440
It's David Livingston saying, I'm out.

816
00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:27.780
Can you just sell this for me, Roxanne?

817
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:28.559
You do this.

818
00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:29.460
Can you do this?

819
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:31.619
You know where puts me?

820
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:32.519
It reminds.

821
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:33.179
Oh, no, wait.

822
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:34.380
I'll hold that for.

823
00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:35.760
This is that scene now.

824
00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:37.079
Your ship tried to kill me.

825
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:38.280
That's ridiculous.

826
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:46.679
They both just start hysterically screaming. forget how to act now.

827
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:47.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

828
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:49.440
No, but I mean, she's always good.

829
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:50.699
When is she ever not good?

830
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:51.119
You know?

831
00:43:51.179 --> 00:43:53.400
And even for how that pilot?

832
00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:54.539
good here with him.

833
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:55.559
No.

834
00:43:55.619 --> 00:43:59.219
No, but I mean, she's selling it better than anything else.

835
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:01.980
I really like that you've been stealing components, Tom.

836
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:03.719
Like, I really like that accusation.

837
00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:05.880
Watch how he slams against the wall.

838
00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:07.920
You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

839
00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:08.639
It's really bad.

840
00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:10.380
Yeah, vicious with us.

841
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.039
Stay out.

842
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.679
Grabs are screams at us.

843
00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:16.019
You know, um...

844
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:17.760
You're sick, Alice, on me again.

845
00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:18.900
Yeah.

846
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:21.900
Oh, so she is physical.

847
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:23.099
He's got hold of her there.

848
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:25.619
No, no, that's just his point of view.

849
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:26.699
Oh, okay.

850
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:27.360
I do like this.

851
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:31.320
I wish she goes, She goes, keep your voice down because the lips are your voice down is good, isn't it?

852
00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:33.719
Yeah, yeah, come on, the hell are you talking to, Tom Paris?

853
00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:39.900
I wonder whether you should have had a point of view shot from what they see as they walk past, but we don't really.

854
00:44:40.019 --> 00:44:45.599
I am going to say this again, though, because I do say this a lot and I know you're going to say to me because it's a Star Trek episode and things don't work that way.

855
00:44:45.659 --> 00:44:52.800
But the 2nd you start acting out of character like this, why on earth doesn't somebody just say, pull the plug on the whole thing and just go, you know what?

856
00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:54.480
Someone's acting out of character again.

857
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:56.880
Should we get them to sick bay and see if there's anything wrong?

858
00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:58.800
Well, that's what they would do.

859
00:44:58.860 --> 00:45:01.199
That's what they would do on lower decks, right?

860
00:45:01.260 --> 00:45:04.019
Because they're aware of the cliches.

861
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.239
I actually quite like these two.

862
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:09.179
There is something good about every time he turns around. she's there.

863
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:11.820
Yeah, but it's her there.

864
00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:12.659
That's the problem.

865
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:13.800
Oh, yeah, yeah.

866
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:14.760
No, I know, I know.

867
00:45:14.820 --> 00:45:16.019
What's her name again?

868
00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:16.980
Gene Rankin.

869
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:17.880
No, what was that?

870
00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:18.900
Claire Rankin.

871
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:20.639
Claire. shot of her.

872
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:22.079
I'm sorry, I fit.

873
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.780
There's one bit where she stares straight down the camera.

874
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:25.559
It's terrifying.

875
00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:27.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah. really great.

876
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:28.199
That is quite a good shot.

877
00:45:28.739 --> 00:45:34.320
Give us sort of mild disinterest, all right, but talk with some panic.

878
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:36.539
No, more boggle eye than that, please.

879
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:38.880
Yeah, it's so good.

880
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.300
We're just wandering around the same boring voyager says.

881
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:43.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

882
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:44.579
Fuck's sake.

883
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:46.019
Oh my god, Kate Mulgrew.

884
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:46.320
Thank you.

885
00:45:46.619 --> 00:45:48.119
Finally.

886
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:49.920
Yeah, but like when?

887
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.900
At like 30 minutes in, you know?

888
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:56.400
She goes, that doesn't sound like Tom.

889
00:45:56.460 --> 00:45:59.280
Jayway, that sounds exactly lights on. talking about?

890
00:45:59.340 --> 00:46:09.599
The thing that you say about a man as well, like a woman comes to you and says, I think my boyfriend just assaulted me and her response is, oh, that doesn't sound like Tom.

891
00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:11.219
You just think, what is that?

892
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.900
Who's behaving?

893
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:13.559
Do you know what I mean?

894
00:46:13.619 --> 00:46:15.300
That's really bad, Cade.

895
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:16.440
Why you doing that?

896
00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:19.260
It's not until he tries to take the ship in a second.

897
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:22.559
Then she goes, then there, maybe something's wrong.

898
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:26.219
Have you seen Star Trek before, Kate?

899
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:28.679
Don't you think that's really bad?

900
00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:30.960
Like, that's a really particularly bad message.

901
00:46:31.019 --> 00:46:40.380
And if this is inadvertently about just atrocious male behaviour and it's excused, you know, here and then at the end.

902
00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:43.440
Because if it is, the message they're putting out is appalling.

903
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:46.679
No, but it's accidentally about that, isn't it?

904
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:48.420
Like, it's accidentally about...

905
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:50.219
Well, that's...

906
00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:51.300
I don't realise it.

907
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:52.679
Yeah, well I don't think they do.

908
00:46:52.739 --> 00:46:54.960
They're complicit.

909
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:55.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

910
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:57.239
Oh, dear.

911
00:46:57.300 --> 00:47:05.099
Okay, what exciting things happening now that we finally left Voyager. and these sort of, you know those sort of curly wirly straws you used to get around the car?

912
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:06.900
That's what it looks like, isn't it?

913
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:07.500
threatening.

914
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:11.340
Like, if it's turning his body into part of a machine.

915
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:22.019
Like, I know that we've got the Borg, but what we've got these sort of, it's like the colour coded XLR cables you have so that you can tell who's plugged into what machine.

916
00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:24.659
It's so bad.

917
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:25.920
It's really bad.

918
00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:27.239
You know what?

919
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:29.519
She's just given him an optronic pulse.

920
00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:33.599
I think that's the sort of spaceship equivalent of an orgasm.

921
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:35.039
You know, he's got edging.

922
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.440
He now can control the weapons with his mind.

923
00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:39.119
Shacks would be his element.

924
00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:41.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

925
00:47:41.219 --> 00:47:44.940
He would have detonated the warp core in no time at all.

926
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:49.860
But see, my God, look at her hair.

927
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.539
Yeah, yeah.

928
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:53.039
Look at her eyes.

929
00:47:53.099 --> 00:47:55.199
I think she's just staring at him.

930
00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:58.440
That's the performance That's the performance into the big eyes performance.

931
00:47:58.500 --> 00:48:02.519
How is this episode devolved into me just going?

932
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:03.239
Her eyes.

933
00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:05.639
Because that's the only thing she's doing.

934
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:07.800
She's our best star.

935
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:11.219
This is something we'll take away from this, though, right?

936
00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:15.659
There are some episodes we've done, I completely forgot.

937
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:16.559
I love that.

938
00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:19.619
The effect of going through warp.

939
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:23.880
Just that shot of it going through warp as an attempt. do you know what I mean?

940
00:48:23.940 --> 00:48:26.940
The point of view shot of them going into the warp sort of thing.

941
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.599
So he is the speed, you know, he's but he is the spaceship.

942
00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:31.559
I end up selling.

943
00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:32.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

944
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:34.619
In a way, it's kind of selling the idea that, oh, look.

945
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:41.099
And now here, do you know, I go down Moss shop a lot and I buy these sort of long straws, coloured straws, sweets.

946
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:42.780
That's what it looks like he's covered in right now.

947
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:47.699
But look, but he's also covered in straps and he's covered in little LEDs as well.

948
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.780
Do you know what I mean?

949
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:55.559
Like he's becoming more the machine and his arms are no longer working, but none of that stuff is as horrible as it should be.

950
00:48:55.619 --> 00:48:57.900
But his arms are not...

951
00:48:57.960 --> 00:48:59.280
And yeah, it's a Borg.

952
00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:00.119
That's part of the problem.

953
00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:02.579
They've already kind of blown their loads with it.

954
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:04.320
It's hideous when it's the Borg. horrible.

955
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:04.860
That's right.

956
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:06.599
Why is it so shit?

957
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:07.920
Oh, here's Abadon.

958
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:08.400
Thank God.

959
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:10.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

960
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:12.420
No refunds, Nathan.

961
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:13.559
No, refunds.

962
00:49:13.619 --> 00:49:13.920
No.

963
00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:15.719
That's right.

964
00:49:15.780 --> 00:49:21.239
Oh, now, so he comes in, we find out now that actually he had a similar relationship with Alice.

965
00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:22.980
Tom Paris did.

966
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:26.099
And then it actualises as one of his race.

967
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:30.480
So we've got the female stepped on by, stepped on a cockroach alien there.

968
00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:31.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

969
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:33.059
Also played by Claire Rankin.

970
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:35.460
It should be a makeup option, Nick.

971
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:40.800
Well, I was wondering how this plays if Alice is a man.

972
00:49:40.860 --> 00:49:46.139
What if it had been, like, what, seducing Tom Barris?

973
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:48.300
Yeah. would have been great.

974
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:50.460
I would have been all over.

975
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:56.099
It would have just been a little bit more fucking interesting than, you know, like what we're getting here.

976
00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:00.179
Or it actualises as somebody that you got a hotspot.

977
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:03.480
So it's Garrett Wang playing it. episode.

978
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:11.400
But with his sort of season one hair where it flops over his... exactly right.

979
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:12.300
Yeah it is.

980
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.960
All I can see now is a crushed cockroach when I look at that man.

981
00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:19.920
I mean, is she supposed to be attractive?

982
00:50:19.980 --> 00:50:21.659
That female version.

983
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:26.340
Well, I think she's attractive to other squashed cockroaches, I think. don't you?

984
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.079
Like, I think that that's kind of the thing.

985
00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:32.940
But, and she's is struggling, like, she's struggling to do anything.

986
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:40.500
Like, she struggles to do anything without all that latex on, but put half a pound of latex on her head and she's just not giving a performance at all.

987
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:41.340
Look at that.

988
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:43.320
She has no facial expression of any kind.

989
00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:45.960
She's not in any way threatening at all.

990
00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:48.059
She just...

991
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:49.619
So bored.

992
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:52.320
And he's alcohol.

993
00:50:52.380 --> 00:50:53.519
Just like Go for it.

994
00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:55.739
Top quality stuff from John.

995
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:56.760
Yeah.

996
00:50:56.820 --> 00:51:02.519
You know, Nathan, you know how I consider your supreme intelligence, brain the size of a planet, yeah?

997
00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:10.260
The fact that you come on this podcast and say things like, you know, I'm sure she seems attractive to other people that look like squash cockroaches.

998
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.860
I mean, it just makes me always an intelligent thing to say.

999
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:15.960
I thought that was a pretty fair observation.

1000
00:51:16.019 --> 00:51:17.280
What have I done to you?

1001
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:20.400
Once you were a serious podcaster.

1002
00:51:22.019 --> 00:51:23.880
That's never true.

1003
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:28.980
Oh my god, I'm dying of boredom.

1004
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:29.699
How long have we got?

1005
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:31.440
She can't fly herself.

1006
00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:33.840
She needs a pilot, a biological entity.

1007
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:36.119
Working in tandem with her programming.

1008
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:37.079
Oh really?

1009
00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:38.519
What are we learning about?

1010
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:39.599
anybody in this?

1011
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:41.579
What are we taking?

1012
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:42.840
the moral of the story here?

1013
00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:50.760
The moral of the story is that sometimes your boyfriend will be abusive, but it's okay for no one to believe you.

1014
00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:53.219
And then at the end of the episode.

1015
00:51:53.400 --> 00:52:01.500
You can just say, I think you are probably just hypnotised all along and it's really nothing to do with what a massive fucking asshole you are.

1016
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:06.119
And then you can be married and have a kid.

1017
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:10.500
But don't worry, you know, that other sexy spaceship that we've got, we're just good friends.

1018
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.420
Oh my god.

1019
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:13.679
Oh my god.

1020
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:16.079
Well, if that is the moral of the story.

1021
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:19.800
This is the most abhorrent episode of Star Trek we have ever watched.

1022
00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:21.780
But am I wrong?

1023
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:23.579
It is kind of that, isn't it?

1024
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:26.039
As you said. inadvertently yes.

1025
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:27.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1026
00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:32.760
I think this is just supposed to be a fun camp horror story.

1027
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:35.760
Yes, but it's not neglected to inject it.

1028
00:52:35.820 --> 00:52:36.360
Exactly.

1029
00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:37.440
And it's not horror.

1030
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:38.639
Yes.

1031
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.159
They may have missed the mark a little bit, yeah.

1032
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:44.820
But there is spousal abuse, so that's on the plus side.

1033
00:52:46.019 --> 00:52:48.300
It's really terrible.

1034
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:48.900
Oh my god.

1035
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:50.639
I have no words.

1036
00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:54.059
Like he just looks stupider every time he cut back to it.

1037
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:55.800
That nebula looks quite nice.

1038
00:52:55.860 --> 00:52:56.340
Look at that.

1039
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:04.619
It's got some sort of stardust coming out of a particle fountain, and there are only 2 particle fountains in Star Trek.

1040
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:07.860
There's this, which is some kind of anomaly.

1041
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:13.559
And then there's the particle fountain in quality of life, which was mining machinery, remember?

1042
00:53:13.619 --> 00:53:15.599
Remember the particle founder?

1043
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:19.199
was that thing, the satellite that fired a beam onto the planet to do mining?

1044
00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:22.380
Wow, I was too busy looking at those cute little exacomps.

1045
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:23.699
So, to be fair.

1046
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:25.980
The technobabble side of it was tedious.

1047
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:33.179
This is a very boring point that I'm making about inconsistent use of technobabble between episodes.

1048
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:36.239
We that desperate now at this point.

1049
00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:47.280
Well, given how boring this episode is, I thought some boring trivia would be pretty kind of amp, you know, like Tom Paris, I think the neurogenic interface is impairing your judgement.

1050
00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:51.000
I think it may well be far out those stupid wires.

1051
00:53:51.059 --> 00:53:54.420
I mean, why is there any suspense here?

1052
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:59.519
Just blow the shit out of the ship and Tom Paris and then we can all go away and have a nice time.

1053
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:01.679
B'lana can find it.

1054
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:04.679
We're supposed to care about Tom, aren't we?

1055
00:54:05.099 --> 00:54:07.260
He's in jeopardy right now.

1056
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:07.980
Got you.

1057
00:54:08.219 --> 00:54:09.659
Yes.

1058
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:16.860
And so this kind of makes the right choice about how to resolve the episode, though, doesn't it?

1059
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:32.340
Like, the one thing it does is it sends B'Elana into whatever the computer or something and makes her appear so that it's her and Alice and she persuades him to leave.

1060
00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:34.500
Do you know what that means?

1061
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:39.119
It means this episode becomes about 2 women fighting over Tom Paris.

1062
00:54:39.179 --> 00:54:40.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1063
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:40.619
Yeah.

1064
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:41.699
Yeah, hideous.

1065
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:52.860
And also, as I've said to you before, her job is to fix him, he's been a cunt and her job is to protect him from the consequences of his poor behaviour.

1066
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:58.619
And yet, do you remember the episodes we've done where she's having difficulties?

1067
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:00.599
And he's still makes it amazing about him.

1068
00:55:00.659 --> 00:55:01.920
Exactly right.

1069
00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:05.099
Oh it's so selfish.

1070
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:06.539
It's awful.

1071
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:08.099
Oh, so bad.

1072
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:18.239
I mean, look, if you're that bored, you know, I can always regale you with stories from threshold of him eating pineapple pizza in his bedroom, you know.

1073
00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:25.500
I have to say that I did like Ella saying no one's ever got me so close before.

1074
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:26.940
Oh.

1075
00:55:26.940 --> 00:55:30.539
Actually, I see nowadays, you know.

1076
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:31.920
Yeah, no, everyone's doing it.

1077
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:39.119
That's what this podcast is for me, it's just an hour long edge in session.

1078
00:55:39.179 --> 00:55:40.260
Oh my god.

1079
00:55:42.300 --> 00:55:48.780
So, the other thing that I think is, he said, swiftly changing this subject.

1080
00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:54.000
The other thing that I think is, oh, look at that shot of her face on staring.

1081
00:55:57.539 --> 00:56:01.079
Does that sound like an illusion, Tom?

1082
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:06.059
And then he goes, he goes, leave me alone, both of you.

1083
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:08.519
Yeah, you stupid women.

1084
00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:10.199
And she can't shout.

1085
00:56:10.260 --> 00:56:11.699
For some reason, she can't shout.

1086
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.380
So she just goes sort of, stop them.

1087
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:18.059
It's time to come home, Tom.

1088
00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:23.579
But...

1089
00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:25.260
God.

1090
00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:29.099
All right.

1091
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.619
Oh, what a prize full of what were you thinking?

1092
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:42.539
I think it would be interesting and I don't know why, but I want to like...

1093
00:56:42.539 --> 00:56:43.679
You think this would be interesting?

1094
00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:50.940
No, but like an, like some alien thing that wants to get into the particle fountain, but they just blow Alice up because she's bad.

1095
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:54.119
But we've done that, she's a bad lady. times.

1096
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:56.699
For God's sakes, we did that in Star Trek.

1097
00:56:56.760 --> 00:57:01.739
In Lonely Among Us in series one, I would have been... was exactly the same thing.

1098
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:04.079
There's just no new ideas here.

1099
00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:07.739
The only new idea is the spaceship coming alive.

1100
00:57:07.980 --> 00:57:12.300
So have the fucking spaceship come alive and do things.

1101
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:13.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1102
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.019
Oh, no.

1103
00:57:16.019 --> 00:57:17.039
Here we go.

1104
00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:25.619
Do you think this, um, this uh, sort of goes back on what we said about, uh, you know, one shot romances, one episode romances in Star Trek.

1105
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:28.260
We were so impressed with his way.

1106
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:30.000
Yeah, yeah.

1107
00:57:30.059 --> 00:57:36.300
But, I mean, that plays out, you know, like the romances on Deep Space 9 and there are a lot of them and they work really well.

1108
00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:45.900
This one is terrible and it's the only one on the show apart from the ill-advised romance between the medium Robert and 7 towards the end.

1109
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:47.280
Oh Christ.

1110
00:57:47.340 --> 00:57:49.800
Yeah, before she realised she was a lesbian.

1111
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:57.360
I have a weird ability of putting people together in relationships with 0 fucking chemistry, don't they?

1112
00:57:57.420 --> 00:57:58.679
Do you know the gift?

1113
00:57:58.679 --> 00:57:59.519
romance.

1114
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.280
You know what romance I'm going to say did work on this show?

1115
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:03.900
Go on.

1116
00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:05.340
The one resolution.

1117
00:58:05.340 --> 00:58:07.679
Oh, Janeway, in Chicago.

1118
00:58:07.739 --> 00:58:09.179
It would have worked like Gangbusters.

1119
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:09.960
Absolutely great.

1120
00:58:10.019 --> 00:58:12.780
Although there's enough one I would have liked to have seen explored.

1121
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:17.340
Do you remember that scene where 7 of 9 comes up to Harry Cumman says?

1122
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:21.179
You wish to have sex with me. remove your clothes immediately.

1123
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:22.800
Yeah, that would have been a great relationship.

1124
00:58:22.860 --> 00:58:24.900
So this awful scene.

1125
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:34.980
The crap joke at the end where he says of the Delta Flyer, we're just friends, but if this was any good at all, it would be like, yeah, don't.

1126
00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:36.000
Did you see that kiss?

1127
00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:37.380
Oh no.

1128
00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:43.500
What if what if it was left with the idea that maybe the Delta Fly is the next obsession?

1129
00:58:43.559 --> 00:58:51.420
You know, like the next thing that he's going to become obsessed about and be a massive prick around is going to be the Delta flyer.

1130
00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:56.880
Yeah, but we know, we know, because we've been here before, and we will be here again.

1131
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:59.760
Do you remember driving series 7, the wedding episode?

1132
00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:01.079
He's a prick again.

1133
00:59:01.139 --> 00:59:03.000
He's obsessed with the spaceship.

1134
00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:04.559
She just puts up with his shit.

1135
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:07.139
Oh, boy, 0 boy.

1136
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:09.900
I can't believe how unsexy that kiss was at the end.

1137
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:11.280
Oh, you know?

1138
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.260
Well, no, it was slogging latex.

1139
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:14.280
It was sexier than that.

1140
00:59:14.340 --> 00:59:15.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1141
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.039
No, that was really dreadful, wasn't it?

1142
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.880
Ugh.

1143
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:26.699
I think that 90s trek, right, can do can do horror really well in terms of atmosphere.

1144
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:28.440
Do you remember when we did Nport Nort?

1145
00:59:28.500 --> 00:59:32.460
It was kind of shitty, but it had buckets of atmosphere because they turn the lights down.

1146
00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:35.699
It was campus Hill by the end, but Genesis.

1147
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:37.980
Genesis as well is another good example.

1148
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:43.260
The darkness and the light, the one where all of Kira's old terrorists are being murdered.

1149
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:45.300
That's a really good horror episode.

1150
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:51.300
There's a reasonable horror episode in series 4 called revulsion with an evil hologram.

1151
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:55.980
And there's a scene where he tries to murdered B'lana, and that's genuinely creepy.

1152
00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:57.840
So he can do it.

1153
00:59:57.900 --> 01:00:00.960
So I think if a horror episode fails.

1154
01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:03.659
They're just not trying.

1155
01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:07.619
But maybe some people are good at pulling it off and others aren't.

1156
01:00:07.739 --> 01:00:10.199
And you said that Livingston can do action.

1157
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.639
You said Livingston could do action, but maybe he can't do atmosphere or something.

1158
01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:18.179
Yeah, I'll keep an eye out to see if he doesn't either.

1159
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:21.599
Well, you, he did that enterprise episode with all the Vulcans going bat shit.

1160
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:24.119
Oh, yeah, that's kind of a lot of atmosphere.

1161
01:00:24.179 --> 01:00:24.840
Yeah.

1162
01:00:25.019 --> 01:00:26.699
Yeah, I don't know what's happening.

1163
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:36.840
This is an unloved one that fell between a few stools, but no one's thought properly about how to make it work. and so it doesn't. just nothing.

1164
01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:40.079
I started, well, we chose Alice last week.

1165
01:00:40.139 --> 01:00:43.800
I started with like, 0 my God, Voyager Series 6.

1166
01:00:43.860 --> 01:00:44.639
It was on a roll.

1167
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.760
I enjoyed the 1st episode.

1168
01:00:47.820 --> 01:01:00.780
Survival instinct was a good Ron Moore script for seven, but Arja the Dead was a good character drama for B'lana, then Tinker Taylor, Tennis Spy is probably the best comedy they ever did with the emergency.

1169
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:01.920
What's what's he called?

1170
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:04.320
You know, the emergency command hologram.

1171
01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:06.840
Then he gets the 4 pits on his thing.

1172
01:01:06.900 --> 01:01:09.719
You know, that's a really, really funny episode.

1173
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:13.860
And I was like, my God, DSI is gone and they're really up in their game.

1174
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:25.559
And I can remember watching Alice and thump coming back to reality and realising, and then it's followed up with riddles, which is the Tuvok amnesia one.

1175
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:28.139
And from there on, there are highs.

1176
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:30.059
There's stuff like Parfinder.

1177
01:01:30.300 --> 01:01:32.099
There's stuff like Muse that we've done.

1178
01:01:33.059 --> 01:01:39.599
But on the whole, it's a series that is sort of leaking creativity.

1179
01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:46.980
But worst of all, I think there's just a weird disinterest in how it's executed, what they're presenting.

1180
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:49.619
And that's probably the worst crime of all, right?

1181
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:52.139
We can stomach back Star Trek.

1182
01:01:52.199 --> 01:02:00.000
But sort of mildly disinterested Star Trek is so boring, you know, and a lot of 6 and 7 is that.

1183
01:02:00.059 --> 01:02:02.639
It's really a shame because this was their time to shine.

1184
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:04.320
Yeah.

1185
01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:14.940
Yeah, I mean, no one sets down to create a bad episode and so sometimes it's hard to explain how it happens and we make up sort of just those stories to kind of guess at what's going on.

1186
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:20.519
But what we just saw on the screen was just a massive miss.

1187
01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:35.820
It was boring and flat and lacking in atmosphere and seemed to have given no real thought to what the story meant or how it should be made entertaining or scary or how we were meant to feel or what we were meant to learn.

1188
01:02:35.940 --> 01:02:43.260
And there was just no basic interest shown in any of those things and those should have been central to kind of what was going on.

1189
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:51.900
I think Voyager has one sort of casualty that both TNG and DSnoying don't have.

1190
01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:59.699
And that is, it has a mixed cast in terms of their ability to act on the screen.

1191
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:15.719
So if there's a bad TNG episode, or if there's a bad DS9 episode, you'll, in a, the TNG ones, you'll usually find moments of charm amongst the cast, and in a DS91, even the worst ones we've done, dramatis personae, move along home.

1192
01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:18.659
There were things that we said, that was a good character moment.

1193
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:20.039
They've put some thought into that.

1194
01:03:20.099 --> 01:03:22.860
There's just something there to make it worth watching.

1195
01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:29.639
Whereas if it is a Voyager episode with a duff premise and one of the regulars that can't act.

1196
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:31.559
There's just nothing.

1197
01:03:31.619 --> 01:03:34.679
There's nothing to hold onto to say that was worth watching.

1198
01:03:34.739 --> 01:03:36.539
And that's where you are with this one.

1199
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:47.760
And so I think that's one of the reasons why Voyager is probably the most inconsistent in terms of quality of the 90s trek shows.

1200
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:50.099
And I'm factoring in enterprise there as well.

1201
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.019
Yeah, I think that's fair.

1202
01:03:52.079 --> 01:04:08.099
But I do think that if you ever need any lessons at all, anyone who's listening, who needs any lessons at all to be less sexy in your life, if you're having a sort of a bad effect on people in your life, please study Claire Rankins performance in Alice.

1203
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:12.179
Yeah, because...

1204
01:04:20.579 --> 01:04:25.260
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to work out where we're going next.

1205
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:27.480
This one was yours, I'm afraid.

1206
01:04:27.539 --> 01:04:28.679
Is that right?

1207
01:04:28.739 --> 01:04:32.519
I did say I want to say not good and I think I succeeded.

1208
01:04:32.579 --> 01:04:33.179
That's true.

1209
01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:33.840
That is true.

1210
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:35.039
You didn't succeed.

1211
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:35.760
Mission accomplished.

1212
01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:37.559
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1213
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:38.340
All right.

1214
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:44.639
Well, in that case, I am going to choose an episode of another 90s Star Trek series.

1215
01:04:44.699 --> 01:04:45.780
Oh, how exciting.

1216
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:47.280
Oh, God.

1217
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:49.019
Oh, another part.

1218
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:50.760
I forget.

1219
01:04:52.019 --> 01:04:54.119
So...

1220
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:57.780
I was glad to ditch that cliche.

1221
01:04:58.019 --> 01:05:02.340
No, we are going to choose an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation.

1222
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:03.960
Oh, how exciting.

1223
01:05:04.019 --> 01:05:04.559
Okay.

1224
01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:06.000
Yeah, that'll be fun.

1225
01:05:06.059 --> 01:05:07.019
That will be fun.

1226
01:05:07.079 --> 01:05:08.639
At random.

1227
01:05:08.699 --> 01:05:09.539
Here we go.

1228
01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:11.639
Come on, series one, series one.

1229
01:05:11.699 --> 01:05:12.059
Come on.

1230
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:13.860
This is really boring.

1231
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:21.000
So this is season seven, episode 24, preemptive strike.

1232
01:05:21.059 --> 01:05:25.139
Oh, it's quite a good episode, actually.

1233
01:05:25.199 --> 01:05:26.880
We have done a lot of 7 though.

1234
01:05:26.940 --> 01:05:33.179
We have, I actually think it's a little bit boring and it's the 1st one, isn't it, that Patrick Stewart directs?

1235
01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:34.800
They give it...

1236
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.059
No, he did that Western.

1237
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:37.079
Fifth full of daters.

1238
01:05:37.139 --> 01:05:37.980
Oh did he?

1239
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:40.079
That's really boring as well.

1240
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:41.280
Yeah, that is.

1241
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:42.539
No, I actually quite like that one.

1242
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:44.340
Because Deanna's fabulous in that one.

1243
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:46.619
The preemptive star...

1244
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:48.360
Yeah, Councillor Durango.

1245
01:05:48.420 --> 01:05:52.139
I'll always say it Yeah, I think it's a bit boring and a bit worthy.

1246
01:05:52.260 --> 01:05:53.820
See if you can find something a bit more exciting.

1247
01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:55.139
Weather good or bad.

1248
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:55.980
All right.

1249
01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:58.739
Oh, you like this one and I think it's shit.

1250
01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:03.000
So season two, episode 13, Times Square.

1251
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:05.460
Oh, the one with 2 Picard.

1252
01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:06.420
Yeah.

1253
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:08.039
Maurice Hurley writes that one.

1254
01:06:08.099 --> 01:06:09.480
I don't know.

1255
01:06:09.539 --> 01:06:13.559
I just think it's got a weird sort of sense of unease about it Pulaski story, that's fair.

1256
01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:14.280
Yeah, as usual.

1257
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:21.659
Yeah, and it is that sort of season 2 thing where things are still kind of weird and haven't bedded down yet, but I don't know.

1258
01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:23.579
I think we could aim higher, you know?

1259
01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:24.539
Yeah, all right.

1260
01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:28.619
We've kind of done this from the other end.

1261
01:06:28.679 --> 01:06:31.019
Season seven, episode seven.

1262
01:06:33.659 --> 01:06:35.699
You'll see what I mean.

1263
01:06:35.940 --> 01:06:39.239
Season seven, episode 12, the Pegasus.

1264
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:43.320
Fucking season seven.

1265
01:06:43.380 --> 01:06:45.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1266
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:48.300
No, I'm be throwing anything from season seven.

1267
01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:51.360
Only because I really want something from season one.

1268
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:54.000
Your wish is my command.

1269
01:06:54.059 --> 01:06:57.960
So this is this is really bad.

1270
01:06:58.019 --> 01:06:59.639
Craig, go on.

1271
01:06:59.699 --> 01:07:01.320
Not a code of honour.

1272
01:07:01.380 --> 01:07:03.599
No, it's too short a season.

1273
01:07:03.659 --> 01:07:06.599
Oh, the worst latex.

1274
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:08.519
Oh, my God.

1275
01:07:08.579 --> 01:07:23.639
And so when I was a kid, like my 1st encounter with Star Trek really was the VHS tapes that were released not to buy, not for kind of buying at home, but for video shops to buy.

1276
01:07:23.699 --> 01:07:27.119
And in Australia, the ones that were released omitted 2 episodes.

1277
01:07:27.179 --> 01:07:28.380
So they were never released.

1278
01:07:28.380 --> 01:07:31.079
And I always just assumed it was because they were the worst too.

1279
01:07:31.139 --> 01:07:37.260
And it's possible that they were because they were home soil and too short a season.

1280
01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:42.300
Soil, ugly bags, all mostly water.

1281
01:07:42.360 --> 01:07:43.079
That's pretty good.

1282
01:07:43.139 --> 01:07:44.940
But yep, no, not watching that.

1283
01:07:45.780 --> 01:07:48.239
Oh, have you gone past it?

1284
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:49.500
I was looking forward to that.

1285
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:50.639
Oh, come on, then.

1286
01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:51.420
What we doing now, then?

1287
01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:52.980
I think I think we might be okay.

1288
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:55.139
It better be better than too short of a season.

1289
01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:57.420
It is a bit better. on.

1290
01:07:57.480 --> 01:08:01.559
Season six, episode 15 tapestry.

1291
01:08:01.619 --> 01:08:03.780
Oh, that's a banger.

1292
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:04.440
That is.

1293
01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:05.159
Yeah, yeah.

1294
01:08:05.219 --> 01:08:05.880
Yeah.

1295
01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:07.079
One of the best top tier.

1296
01:08:07.139 --> 01:08:08.099
You have to do that.

1297
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:10.619
Luck Picard. here.

1298
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:11.159
Yeah.

1299
01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:11.760
Yeah.

1300
01:08:11.820 --> 01:08:16.560
We absolutely, absolutely. and he goes, morning darling. doesn't he?

1301
01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:17.520
Isn't he stroking him?

1302
01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:19.619
Like, doesn't he stroke his head and wake him up?

1303
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:23.460
They're quite friendly at this point, Stuart.

1304
01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:29.520
Certainly much sexier than Alice and the worst Robert were in that episode that we just watched.

1305
01:08:29.579 --> 01:08:35.399
Has a really visceral stabbing scene in there as well, where Picard gets stabbed.

1306
01:08:35.460 --> 01:08:38.819
And that just glorious scene.

1307
01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:47.640
Picard is sent back into the future as a lieutenant. and Riker says to him, oh, I don't think you're really for command.

1308
01:08:47.699 --> 01:08:49.020
You're a no one.

1309
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:52.500
You're nobody. let's watch it sounds really fun.

1310
01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:54.720
It's a really good episode. can't wait.

1311
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:13.920
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1312
01:09:13.979 --> 01:09:19.439
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam.

1313
01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:25.619
This episode was recorded on the 27th of May 2025 and released on the 30th of May.

1314
01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:30.300
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, Tapestry.

1315
01:09:45.779 --> 01:09:47.819
Shall we have there?

1316
01:09:47.939 --> 01:09:49.859
Yeah, whatever.

1317
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:52.859
There's nothing else to say.

1318
01:09:52.859 --> 01:09:57.180
I can't believe at one point in that episode, I just went...

1319
01:10:00.420 --> 01:10:13.199
I still think your most, my most famous, my favourite thing about your recent performances has been when you were doing the empath's voice..

1320
01:10:14.819 --> 01:10:20.399
I did make myself laugh when I was like, I'm not going to sacrifice myself.

1321
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:22.800
You do it.

1322
01:10:22.859 --> 01:10:25.140
Jesus Christ. so good.

1323
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:33.239
But I mean, that was a bad episode of Star Trek, but it was... like this.

1324
01:10:33.300 --> 01:10:34.319
Yeah.

1325
01:10:35.220 --> 01:10:37.260
Although we did laugh a lot in that.

1326
01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:40.859
We generally laugh at the worst ones more than we do.

1327
01:10:40.920 --> 01:10:41.640
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1328
01:10:41.699 --> 01:10:47.520
But I mean, this is there's a sense in which nothing in this apart from the inadvertent message is terrible.

1329
01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:49.680
It's just boring.

1330
01:10:49.739 --> 01:10:51.420
It's just mid and boring.

1331
01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:55.140
Nathan riddles are started, right?

1332
01:10:55.199 --> 01:11:00.180
And the alien of the week has shown up and he could have been more Beaumarian if he's right.

1333
01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:03.180
He wearing a coat hanger?

1334
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:16.680
No, he doesn't, but he sort of looks like he's got jaundice because he's very sort of yellow and he's sort of got ridges that go in like this and then sort of come out. with weird lines going up here and a crazy haircut.

1335
01:11:16.739 --> 01:11:18.479
No, that's no good.

1336
01:11:18.539 --> 01:11:21.180
Oh, no, you can see the lion where his wig is.

1337
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:22.739
No, dear.

1338
01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:27.239
Being this close to the screen does it no favours.

1339
01:11:27.300 --> 01:11:29.520
Yeah, no, that's a problem.

1340
01:11:29.579 --> 01:11:36.180
And he has got just a little bit of makeup here to suggest that there's something going on underneath his clothes.

1341
01:11:36.239 --> 01:11:37.319
Just a little.

1342
01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:41.399
God bless them. anyway.

1343
01:11:41.460 --> 01:11:42.720
Oh, please.

1344
01:11:42.779 --> 01:11:44.340
Chew sorry. good.

1345
01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:45.960
Okay, okay.

1346
01:11:46.020 --> 01:11:47.640
I can guarantee that I'll do that.

1347
01:11:47.699 --> 01:11:48.899
But...

1348
01:11:48.899 --> 01:11:51.659
I'm gonna give it...

1349
01:11:51.659 --> 01:11:54.899
I mean, it's miles away from those lower decks we watch this, isn't it?

1350
01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:57.060
Yeah, I know. like chalk and cheese.

1351
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:00.960
All right, it's the end of the episode.