Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back for the second week in a row.
Yes.
Aboard the USS Cerritos, and we are watching the series finale.
So season 5's final episode and the final episode of the entire
show, which is called the New Next Generation.
It is, as we record, the 2nd most recent Star Trek thing to be
released.
The only thing that's been released this year. has been section
31.
And this episode was released on the 19th of December 2024.
So it's not all that old.
Now, last week, you said that in preparation for this, you would
take the opportunity to watch all of season 5 of lower decks.
You know how I always keep my word.
Yeah.
So how did you go?
For once, I did keep my words.
I didn't watch it in like 24 hours or something.
It was so quick.
Okay, so I watched the 1st one.
Dos Sarutos.
I was like, oh, this is so great.
So then every single time I had like time to spare, I was watching
another episode.
Now, my other half works from home, so he watched a lot of these
with me as well.
I was sitting there on the sofa going, are you watching that
cartoon again?
I was like, how amazing it is.
I've got to say, I have one issue, right, with what I did, and
that is, it's of such a high standard, yeah, the whole season was
such a high standard, although there were standouts.
I thought the Klingon episode was a standout.
I't remember what that was called now.
Farewell to Farms.
Thank you very much.
The Starbase episode was amazing.
And the episode where the 2 symbols were having a war that was
absolutely brilliant.
But the issue with bingeing lower decks is it kind of all blurs
into one.
So I was like to say like, okay, am I going to pull out certain
episodes to talk about today when we talk about this season that
I've watched and I couldn't remember individual episodes.
I could just remember the year.
So I think I prefer the way you and I do. it, which is doing an
episode every now and again in isolation and then watching it like
that.
I'm not a binge. what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I watched this as it came out, so I watched an episode a
week.
And so I did get a sense of the individual episodes, I think.
But I do think that, you know, things like Picard and Discovery
work really well as one big extended story.
And I think that sometimes lower deck stars as well.
And this does have a kind of running thread.
It's worth remembering, though, that Picard and Discovery, you
know, could be inconsistent in quality from episode to episode.
So it's always good to know there's another one you can watch
straight after if you watch a really shit one.
Whereas when you watch lower decks, it's all such a high quality
that what I will say is, God, it was a confident year.
It had a great running storyline that I was really invested in.
The journey from the 1st episode to the last where you see all of
these characters blossom. in their roles as, oh, come on
characters by the end of the season was glorious.
The thing that impressed me the most so was the visuals.
Oh, my fucking God.
There was a couple of episodes where I was staggered at the visual
inventiveness of it.
I mean, this episode we're talking about today.
They saved some of the best for last.
And a small note for the penultimate episode, which probably was
my favourite episode.
Ever of Lower Decks with all the 100s of Harry Kims and the evil
lieutenant.
The glorious Garak and Bashir romance, you know, Tapawin there
with her sassy lines.
Oh my god.
I mean, that was, for God's sake.
Appropriately, they left the last episode for this cruise and to
showcase them out their best.
But lower decks is a massive love letter tonight's trek.
So that penultimate episode, basically pulling in all, yeah, for
God's sake.
That it was just, that was probably my favourite of the year.
It is pretty good.
But yeah, I mean, on the whole, though, just a brilliant, brilliant
year of Star Trek.
Yeah, they really went out on a high.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, um, it is sad to see it go and I was misting up a little bit
when I was watching it just before coming on the call, but it is
really satisfying.
And I really like how it ends.
It does the same trick that Star Trek Discovery does, which is
that it winds up its major plot in about the normal length of an
episode, and then it has a coder, which kind of just talks about
where everyone goes.
And I guess no one did as well, wasn't it?
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right.
And so this finishes sort of 8 minutes or something before the end
of the episode.
It remembers that we care about these characters.
So it isn't just about the season plot wrapping up where are these
characters going.
It's what Voyager forgot in Endgame.
When they got everybody home. and then went to the closing
credits.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, I think it's really good. really, really enjoyed it.
And I get what you see about it being visually inventive.
I am going to need you to help me out with some of the stuff
because I did watch this on 1st broadcast, but it did start in
October last year.
And I have watched Doceritos again.
Oh, and we did Shades of Green, obviously, but I haven't really
watched any of the rest, oh, and fully dilated, obviously.
But, oh, and I watched up a Dexter.
What am I talking about?
I have watched...
Yeah, yeah, that's what I think about it.
I have actually watched most of this.
But yeah, it is pretty great.
I mean, it's basically there's this great wibbly electric nebula
that is threatening all of the alpha quadrant and it's turning
spaceship centre alternative versions of each other.
That's all you need to know.
And then just watch the visuals.
Watch that fabulous Doritos suddenly have all these weapons and
that clear...
I mean, didn't even the Discovery Klingons turn up at one point?
Right in the opening beard.
And the bird of prey turns into a discovery type bird of prey.
It turns into proto-Klingons.
Proto Klingons.
That's genesis, isn't it?
That's where like mindless proto-Cleons.
Absolutely not.
You can do a lot of letter, anything you want, but not Genesis, all
right.
It's already done.
They've done it.
Oh, and did you notice at the end where the new lower decks people
were all around the table with the candle from Sub Rosa?
Yes.
And that was lovely.
I love that as well.
This kind of...
Okay, now Boimlo, Maron, and everybody, they're in important
roles.
Now we've got our new lower decks and it goes on and the message
at the end was this wasn't the end of this adventure.
This is just the start.
But it also did the DS9 thing of moving a few, well, in this case
it's just, oh, good grief. forgotten her name.
Carol.
Yeah, Carol, it moves Carol and her husband to Starbase 80. the
most terrible starbase in the quadrant.
But that was wonderful because Starbase 80 was from earlier in the
show's run because Mariner gets sent there after she gives that
interview and she gets in trouble and she gets sent to Starbase 80
and it is a sort of punishment and everyone there is kind of
awful.
And so that episode in the middle of this season.
Starbase 80 that rehabilitates Starbase 80 And, you know, like all
of the things like they bring back the 2 Klingons from a farewell
to farms.
That was one of the best Klingon episodes I've ever seen.
I've just got to say that.
The way they deconstruct all the Klingon cliches.
And just turn those 2 people into genuine fucking characters.
Oh, it was amazing.
It's terrific.
And like Ollie, you know, the granddaughter of Zeus, presumably
the niece of the Apollo that we met in who mourns for Adonise. on
the planet Pollux 4, like all of those deep dives, but she saves
the day as well.
You know, she has a massive role and just like just the moments
again with Tandy and to Lynn, who've become a brilliant double
act.
That was the best moment of the whole episode.
Science bestie.
So good.
And they do that cartoon thing where it's... from the screen.
So great.
Oh, and do you know what, but it made me howl as well as when the
woman said, um, start by saying, come and have some of our uh
homemade decontamination chill.
I'm like, oh, no.
We're doing enterprise jails.
We just got sakes.
So great, so good.
Oh boy.
All right.
What do you think?
I think we probably should watch the thing.
Yes, I think you'd be wonderful.
Let's go.
Just, please, just, you know, keep your eye on these visuals
so...
So brilliant.
Okay.
I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Now, see if you can find it.
Can we see the koala?
That is.
There's the koala.
Bloody koala.
I swear you're making this up.
No, no, the cloud koala.
Remember the guy who ascends?
Like, that's God.
The koala.
You believe any old cliche?
when they say Spock's face is in that meteor dust in the DS9?
No, no.
It's definitely a thing.
Oh, is it Mergill?
Previously on Lower Decks.
No, so it's the woman who plays her name's Jessica McKenna.
Oh, no, it's a man.
I actually didn't recognise who the previously voiced was.
It wasn't the computer this time.
Gosh, there's some good music in this episode.
They used that Klingon, the Klingon music, like really well, and
then they just deploy the hero, um, you know, the incredible hero
Cerritos music all the time.
Can I just say, you know, last week we were talking about who's
hot?
like Rutherford with his shirt off?
Yeah.
Malor.
My husband, the brother.
You've got a kink for Klingons, dude.
He's hard.
Actually, Tony Todd was pretty hot as well, yeah, handsome man.
Well, they're usually buff, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah.
Look at this. a defiant starship.
Yeah, sealing up a fisher.
There is an amazing defiant moment as well at the very end, which
I thought was really good.
So here we have the Klingons.
We're on the edge of Klingon space and they're about to encounter
one of these fishes.
She has got the ugliest looking tog you've ever seen in your
life.
Look at it.
Isn't it?
It's barking.
It's a little yappie Chihuahua.
Like, but it's a tag.
I mean, they should have done it as if they glued the horn on, like
they did in the TRS, like it was a dog.
Is she our new loser then or Betor?
Well, so she is the brother of the 2 guys, the 2 brothers that get
killed by my, I don't know how we pronounce his name, uh, yeah.
That's the old stock TNG cliche.
Yeah, revenge for my brother, stroke sister.
Yeah, exactly.
The webs of electricity crackling out.
Fabulous.
It cracks in reality or something.
I don't know what it is. just looks incredible.
And the Soliton wave.
Remember, wasn't the soliton wave considered as, you know, the
next thing surfing a soliton wave?
There's an episode of Star Trek, the next.
There is our Discovery Klingon and the Discovery Klingon bird of
prey that smashes into the other one.
It sort of flew across and smashed into the other one.
Oh, yeah.
It looks so good.
She looks she looks permanently pissed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's wonderful.
She's awesome.
Or evil.
And it's funny that it is like, this is just a normal episode.
I think I think the opening with Jack giving the captain's log or
the, you know, 1st officer's log, and we just see the people, you
know, just going about their normal day is supposed to remind us
what this ship is like, what life on the ship is like.
So that does seem like, and there's, you know, Taana hitting on
shacks and stuff, and that gives you a sense of what life's going
to be like after the episode's over.
But it's otherwise it's just a normal episode.
They can do sort of like, not complicated arcs, but um, you know
uh, compelling arcs, but it's not really that show, is it?
This is like a, it's normally like a 25 minute hit of pure
pleasure, you know, where you don't have to think too on, and it's
just bam, bam, bam, funny lines, great visuals, great
performances.
So I'm pleased they ended.
Oh, look, there he is, sucking on the arse.
For the last time, sucking on the arse.
So remember that series 4 just had a ship that came and killed
people and we would see these different ships with different races
on it.
You know, there's the binars one week and the Romulans one week
and there's a few gags and then a sheep appears and disintegrates
them.
And then it turns out that it was Nick Lucano all along in the
finale.
There's Badgie going along the corridor there.
That shot there of all the different decks.
And things happening in every window.
Oh, I love this.
Look at Jack.
Look at Jack in the background reacting.
He's kind of going, yeah, I'm going.
God, I love you.
She says.
That's wonderful.
Like that's that's that.
That's that relationship, you know, for the end of the for the end
of the show.
I'm pleased to say that because we watched fully dilated the other
day that Borner's beard is now lush, beautiful.
Yeah, he looks like a real man now.
Well, like, in a year, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
From bearded blowner from the 1st episode.
I loved the journey that Rutherford goes on in this one as well
where his, what's it called?
his implant's not working properly. and he thinks he's fallen out
of love with the ship.
And he realises it isn't the ship.
It's the implant.
Of course he loves the Cerritos.
That hero moment where he pulls out those isolinear chips at the
end just is absolutely brilliant.
I've never seen anyone engineer like that before.
Yeah, technical, isn't it?
Just tremendous.
Just terrific.
Oh, dear.
And the moment where he breaks the, where Brad Boimler breaks the
red pad because he wants to support...
Gorgeous.
She goes, that's really stupid, but kind of sweet.
Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?
I like the fact that they said to her, you know what?
You seem to have lost your touch, so she's a total bitch and she
makes that man jump.
He's coming along with his food.
What about this line here, boy, with screaming and breaking glass
and stuff because he's read the pad.
And then Teddy says, is it just me or his boy?
We're always freaking out about it.
Pat and Delin says, it is not just you.
She is.
Oh, Grace.
The bit at the end where Ransom says Starfleet wants us to go and
investigator talking goo.
Visc was talking.
What is the viscopity off the blue?
Jesus got the viscosity.
And Tendi says, is it saying anything nice?
And he just sort of think, oh, yes, the 2 of them together. science
buddy.
You just sort of want to watch the next series now, don't you?
With him as the key. with Boimla and Marina, both ancient for that
role.
Oh, because that's a perfect...
That's a perfect cartoon plot.
So we left in the middle of that.
There's a cartoon plot that we're never going to see.
Oh, so here's my and his hot brother.
Oh, look at his horrible toes look.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought my feet as well, you know, but those are hideous.
Oh, dear.
So he's in...
Wait, wake me if Kayla comes.
So he, look at that.
And this is where we get the Klingon music and all of that.
They look great, don't they?
Oh my god, the talk's right on the screen.
So ugly.
Small yuppy dogs.
Oh my word.
Oh, terrible.
So, so he gets introduced in, uh, gets introduced in, uh, the 3
ships episode that introduces to Lynn.
Remember that?
It's fantastic.
It's so good.
And it, yeah, you know, like it's a, our ship and a, uh, Vulcan
ship and a Klingon ship.
These are so great. bargain dog.
Oh, she gets angry.
She throws something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's awesome.
He's great.
Oh look at these special effects now. my god we're sort of zooming
around the bird of prey. so good, isn't it?
F flying everywhere.
This is properly dynamic.
See, he's hot.
So, Maloria Sam Whitworth, who was in the American version of
being human, but he was also crashed down in Battlestar
Galactica.
He's super hot.
Who is that green fish woman now?
She is also played by Gabrielle Ruez.
You can ruers because you can hear that in her voice.
And she is something.
She's credited as Ariolo Federation scientist.
What happens to these figures on the screen?
So the guy is holding a cactus and then he ends up with a head as
a cactus and the cactus is like some goo.
And then someone later on says, but we, what happens to us?
We don't want our heads to turn into characters.
This with the 3 characters on the screen, right?
all on the screen together.
It's exactly how it's shot in what you leave behind with Marto, the
Admiral and Cisco.
Yeah.
Exactly the same.
Oh wonderful.
Oh, actually, the one person I didn't feel got much too much to do
was the fella behind with the moustache.
He was the only character I thought was...
Oh, no, Billips or Shacks.
Phillips.
It was just a little bit of...
But you know what?
had 30 minutes.
I had a lot to do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he is a secondary character.
He's in a little bit, but he's not sort of a primary character.
Could or not fishwoman have just said, it's a trap.
Just once.
And it, you know, like they're annoyed at Boimler because William
Boimler, from the transporter accident, from the 2nd Chances
Transporter accident.
Oh, just series three.
I don't even know.
Um, uh, you know, sent the the thing to their reality.
And he says at the end of the episode, I know that Boimler is
going to be able to handle it. and they get there.
Do you know what I mean?
Yes, of course, we were going to be able to handle it and they
were.
With a few bumps along the way.
Yeah, yeah, of course. cartoon and it's an episode.
I love this woman, though.
Ollie is really great, isn't she?
She was really good in that episode.
So that was the episode you mentioned where it's like the spheres
versus the cubes or whatever.
The special effects in that episode were great.
When they were at war with EJ.
And how has that never happened?
The Spheres versus the Cubes is such genius and such a great
idea.
It was like on crosses board, declaring war on each other.
It was wonderful.
Do you know, oh my god, why do I keep forgetting Dawn Lewis's
character's name?
Yeah, Carol.
Carol Freeman.
Mark was watching this with me, right?
And because it's clearly a woman of colour playing.
He was like, oh, she's fabulous.
Mark just kept going, mm-hmm, and clicking his fingers. every time
she talked.
Oh, live in the cliches.
Oh, do you know he does?
He's got his chest all on show.
I can't look away.
You like shacks at the end of the world.
She's told me I'm not allowed you're not allowed to detonate the
warp core.
Unless you...
Unless you deserve it.
Oh, he's a psychopath.
I also love Malor.
He wants to go and eat.
He wants to have replicators if he's can find a quarters because
all of our Klingon snacks are made of bugs and they have salty and
sweet.
I love salty and sweet.
I'm assuming you're a real girl.
What gave it away?
Oh, look at them all there and on the bridge together.
They're such a great crew, aren't they?
so good.
It's so unusual to have a Star Trek show where you don't hate one
of the characters.
Like every other show.
There's someone...
Who do I hate?
Oh, you hate the worst, Robert.
Yeah, that's true.
I hate the worst, Robert.
Sometimes you hate the medium, Robert.
Yeah, that's true.
But maybe it's Voyager that I just hate people.
I don't hate anyone.
We mostly hate Captain Archer, you know.
Yeah.
I don't hate anyone on DS9 or on TNG.
I think.
No, actually, that's a good point.
Yeah, but it's very unusual to love and like from all this much.
I don't know that there's anyone as much.
Anyone on any Star Trek crew in any Star Trek crew that I love as
much as I love Tandy and Rutherford.
Oh, really?
I mean, I love Boimer and Mariner, obviously they're wonderful.
But God, I love Tandy and Rutland.
Mariner should be annoying.
But if no, she's wonderful.
She's so good.
A little trick, they pulled off with that.
Oh, God, this fella from Darmok.
Geishan.
Every shitty metaphor he said, I was laughing my head off.
So great.
So good.
Take on their silent beckons.
No, she's throwing a thing.
We cut back to her.
She's throwing something.
Oh shit.
Don't care angry.
No, no.
And so...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
These are proper action things.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
And they're exactly the sort of action sequences they would do on
a live action show because they're all cartoons as well.
No, no, no, they're better.
I've seen worse action scenes in the live action tricks.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you know, this is what it looks like now.
And so, you know, it's exactly the same technology.
I mean, as well, like, you know, they've had 5 seasons to perfect
the animation and the fluidity of it and all of that.
But boy, they took it to new heights here.
We're approaching the Schrodinger field.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, because it's different, you know, quantum superpositions.
You know, me and the cats alive and not alive at the same time
until you take a look at it.
You know, I was thinking of you, you know, when they went into the
show.
And they kept showing you all the cross-section technical designs
of all the shit.
I bet he knows what all of them are.
But I died, but it is absolutely kind of like there are Star Trek
word nerds watching this and we had better do that.
Just this one last time.
This race for weird.
I mean, I should say that in every Star Trek episode ever, right?
What's that?
So we have only, it's the, what is it?
A freedom class?
Um, because chips only have even numbered even numbers of
Nasselles.
Don't have time to nerd out, Lieutenant.
We don't have time to know it out.
It's wonderful.
So good.
We get to see some beautiful ships too in this sequence.
So as we go closer to the rift.
The ships keep hitting these soliton waves and changing into other
things.
The Klingon turns into a barge of the dead, doesn't it?
Yeah, and everyone dies, all hands lost.
Oh, well, nobody will warn them.
And now these ships made of wood.
So there's wood in the corridors and the exterior has wood.
Now it's gold.
Like it keeps changing.
What we needed to see in this last episode was that this crew had
gailed in such a way that there's an impossible problem to solve
and you just see everybody's strength and they absolutely do that
don't they?
But they also have the little character thing like Rutherford's
little plot and stuff like that.
Oh, he's the huge...
He's the best dead.
Look at that.
And they've done the electric, the lightning, just like the
episode, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
I could really use a shield update, Mr. Phillips.
The brilliant thing is that the reason they give in universe for
the, um, and I can't think who says it.
Um, it might be, no, it's not me, Lamo.
It says, oh, they don't change their ships that often.
You know, they just always want them to look like big stupid birds
which I thought was a pretty great line.
So, are these still fighting?
I love that, don't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I do too.
So these 2 are having a bit of a fight and to Lynn's being normal
intendees being kind of, you know, ludicrously over the top just
like last week.
And it looks like they're going to break up and he's Rutherford
and he hates the ship.
And so they're at the kind of depths of their kind of of their
plots at the sort of worst point of their plots before it all
turns around.
Oh, look how sad it looks.
Maybe this is just a rough patch between you and the story time.
That's right.
But it isn't getting better.
It's such a punch the air moment when he goes, I love the Cerritos
again.
Why is Poimla... hosing down the dolphins.
Yeah, he's a kink.
That's it.
Notice that the dolphins think that my heart is hot.
Like they actually say, oh, he's hot.
You and the dolphins have something in common, man.
Malore a bit better.
He's a bit chunkier.
Do you know which bit made me actually moved me the most?
Strangely, was I'll forget it later when it comes.
It's when Dr. Tahana goes, miaow, when she gives...
It's a proper hug.
It doesn't sort of purr in miaow as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's really cute.
I thought that was really great.
That Klingon...
I know.
And now it is...
Oh, it's a is it a Terran ship?
Yeah, yeah, it's a Terran Empire ship.
By the prophets.
The weapons are amazing.
But they don't work.
Immediately, weapons offline.
There you go.
It's so mean.
I wanted to blow some shit up.
Oh, do you know what?
All these characters went, none of this should have worked, should
it?
For God's sakes, it's so gross.
It's really good, isn't it?
I mean, the Klingon characters who are very minor roles, you know
they're in like 3 episodes, I think, and we really care about them
as well.
Although the best jokes about Shacks is where he died and came
back and we never found that why.
You can't even say.
Oh, no, it's to Anna who says that they always want their ships to
look like big stupid birds.
She just said it then, bless her.
There we go, but...
The purple boy.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
This purple boy has proof the mariner light.
Oh, this was gorgeous where she just says to her daughter, no.
I trust you.
But that was the thing earlier on, too.
Like they expected that they would have to try and convince
Freeman that the thing was real and she just believes them
immediately.
But that's not where they were in series one, is it?
come so far together.
But also the bit like...
Yeah, I know he broke the pen. need a patch.
I mean, that is one of the best things about Star Trek, isn't it?
the friendships between the characters.
Yeah, yeah, but like ransom prevents Maha from hitting a Mariner
and he goes, oh, how are you so strong?
And he says high-ensity, high intensity.
High intensity, the infiltrating or something, which is so
hilarious.
But again, you know, mariner, a ransom steps in to save mariner
and they've had a very kind of fractious relationship.
Oh, this is where we learn, isn't it?
It's real girl, pretending to be the athlete.
Yeah, that's right.
There she is.
That is so dishonourable.
She sent the message.
That's Baron saying that it's so funny.
I can't believe we've got Terran weapons and no way to use them.
And so I can't remember what the trick is.
What's the trick?
Oh, of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they get Ollie on top of the ship because she's a goal.
Do you wish they didn't bleep out Dr. Tahana's fucks?
They are so great.
Every time she does it.
It is hard to tell because I do like swearing on Star Trek, as you
know. and I don't know whether the beeping is funnier or not.
I can't tell.
I'm not sure.
Oh, yep, here we go.
So, here we are on the outside of the ship, in the spacesuits.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But Ollie, there she is using her magical powers, her divine
powers.
Enterprise did a whole episode with in lower decks, it's 2.5
seconds on the exterior of the ship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the, and like we rolled to mourns for Adonis the other day and
ended up watching the empath instead.
And who mourns for adonise is very similar to the empathy in that
it's just a big god.
It's Apollo, who presumably is Ollie's uncle. just torturing
people until it's time to go home, you know, crap joke and then
out.
Oh, yeah, we go.
They're turning into the proto Klingons from Genesis.
We even see the...
Yeah, look, look, exactly like it.
It's so great.
It's so good.
Is that Mr. Wolf, I see there?
So they're dead now.
Oh, look at it. bloody great explosion as well.
I'm sure Mr. Shacks will be very happy.
Yeah.
And the explosion is still hand-drawn.
It's not that, or, you know, it looks hand-drawn.
Like they don't try and make it look like there we go. the crazy
colours.
Yeah, yeah, it looks amazing.
Where are we?
I mean, we were happy when they exchanged black for white in this
animated series.
So it's sovereign class.
So the same as the Enterprise E. Yeah, so from, uh, you know
whatever.
We have come a long away from the animated series nation, haven't
we?
Yeah, I certainly have.
Oh my god, look.
It's constantly transforming now.
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Galaxy class.
Oh, my God.
Silicon Avatar.
What was that?
It does, doesn't it?
Oh, they're whatever.
They're quantum superposition stage.
It's still appropriate.
This show wishes a love letter tonight is trek that the big threat
is a big wibbly anomaly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does get appropriate.
Like the finale of Star Trek the Next Generation.
That's right.
They make some comment later on about how, you know, we love the
Cerritos, even though engineering is like completely separate from
the rest of the ship.
You know, like there's nothing joining it to the rest of the
ship.
So he turns...
Oh, he tears his implant off.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
He does he does the date effect now with the ice linear chips.
Exactly right.
I've never seen anyone engineer that fast.
Robert Foot.
Yeah.
It's so great.
And now these 2 are going to be friends again.
What the hell does that mean?
We are being fuelled by interdimensionality itself.
Yes, it's an awesome one. terrific.
So great.
I think Dr. Tahana may have just done a little poo there.
She looks so scared.
Get that cat, I'll let her try.
It's yeah, that's right.
Now look at they're all working together.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's a proper Star Trek thing.
We get sparks coming out of the consoles, no rocks, though.
Oh, it's the sexiest anomaly we've ever seen.
It's my favourite bit.
Yes, it is.
Here it is.
Just each other.
Best thing.
I just done live, Marty Morphin, fucking...
That's excellent.
Oh, now we're back together.
Oh, so funny.
They special effects, man, in the normally. amazing.
Oh, and here's the hot Klingon.
He's back I mean, seriously, go back and watch the Silicon Avatar
all right?
It doesn't look like this.
We moved on.
We've got a glueonic beam. are a real thing, I think, but I don't
know anything about particle physics, so I can't tell you what
they are.
Shacks are so excited every time the weapons change.
You get to fire a new weapon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
And so this solution is really great.
It's super interesting and it does change the Star Trek universe, I
think, that after this time there is an open portal that is
playing the role of the wormhole in Deep Space 9, but instead of
going into the Gamma Quadrant, it goes into different realities.
And you kind of think I would watch the shit out of that version
of Star Trek.
You've got a show there, custom made, so you can test your actors
every week to play a new version of themselves.
Exactly.
Exactly, like sliders or whatever.
Only good.
Terrible show.
And this is like, well, Jeffrey Davis.
Yeah, maybe.
That looks great, doesn't it?
Yeah, permanently.
I mean, it is it is great effect.
I think I prefer the wormhole, though, you know.
Yeah, yeah, but you can't do the wormhole again, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I think it looks, like it looks like nothing else that we've ever
seen. and that's.
So is your favourite thing, look?
Like, well, big space problem and they've solved it all by being
competent space people.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's just Star Trek, being as Star Trek as possible.
Now we go to black, and now here we are, and this is the, we get
the, you know, we're going to get a log, Boemless log, and this is
the end.
So this is the coder.
We finished the episode just then.
Now here's the coder.
I tell you why this is so great.
It's because I can't think of a better way to end the show. than
what they put on.
You know, like when we talked about Endgame, I thought of many
ways, they could have ended that in a better way.
Oh yeah, for sure.
But I just, I don't know.
They're all such lovely characters.
You kind of, you don't want to lose anyway.
You're want to kill anyone off.
You know, you don't want anyone to be unhappy.
I think I think they just gauge the sentiment just right.
But what they do is they leave us with a spinoff idea that's like
deep space 9 and there's the Defiant.
There's Garak and Bashir giving each other moon eyes.
And so we've got a DS9 spinoff, and then we have like a Star Trek
the Next Generation style spinoff where we're on a ship.
And so...
I hope my Rivera was watching this, you know, and just all those
two.
Yeah.
There it is.
Yeah.
But so it leaves us with the real impression that the franchise
continues.
Do you know what I mean?
There are 2 TV premises that continue.
The franchise, the world of Star Trek is made up of TV shows, and
we get 2 unseen TV shows that start, you know, at this point, uh
and we can imagine them going into the future, even though maybe
we won't ever get to see them.
Oh, this, holy crap, the 2 of them, you know, it's time for her to
go.
It's okay.
Mariner doesn't need her anymore.
It's lovely.
Both of those TV shows would have been great. absolutely awesome.
It's these characters.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But this version of Star Trek as well is just wonderful.
Oh, I know, but you know you know the characters am I in?
with Starshare.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yep.
And I pretty much would go on and watch these people doing
anything.
Sure, for sure.
I love Cassio.
Can they do the same trick twice?
Can we have another live action?
appearance by lower decks characters, please?
We never be great.
Put rubber food in the academy or something like that, you know?
As a teacher.
Or to Lynn.
Oh, she's so great.
They'd have to travel into the future.
You know, there is talk about a sitcom, like a comedy a live
action comedy Star Trek, which I think would work.
Oh, this, now that he's organic.
He's like just clearly in love with Tandy.
And there's a motor where Talin says something really funny where
I was unaware of your romantic affection, and then they deny it
and it's very clearly there.
And like they're all over each other, and this, and then Talin
says clearly, I was mistaken, which is so funny.
Like, again, it's like to Lynn Riley making a joke that no one
else even notices.
It's just excellent.
I love the, the, uh, Mariner gets the most wonderful speech now
about, you know, all working together and it's really lovely.
And then they go, you sure you're okay because your mum's lit?
Well, you know, I'll tore up my bed on fire.
Yeah.
I'm okay.
We'll see Yeah, this is lovely, isn't it?
I it's really great.
Yeah, patchy.
That stupid thing in, in, in, in, in, in a minute is those new
lower decks with the sub roser candle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're having their own sort of seance.
You know, the 1st episode of the new lower decks is going to be
all about Ronan on the ship.
Oh, this was that pod exploding.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just get covering the big gloop.
And then he just, he goes, he eats it and goes, hmm.
Well, they are gourmets, you know.
What was this all about with all these Albert Einsteins?
No, these are Jerry Harden as what's his face?
Samuel Clemens.
Oh, Samuel Clemens.
Yeah, yeah. a reference to a previous episode.
Yeah, yeah.
So they're sitting there.
All these women sitting around the candle just lit.
And then look at this hero here.
Of them all from below.
It isn't the only coming onto the bridge.
It's the beginning.
Well that's such a healthy way of looking at it.
Oh, kick the computer, you know.
It's all out my system.
I mean, I don't know.
Was it still burning?
And then she says the cheekiest thing of all. tune in and find out
We can't, you bitch.
Uh-oh.
So good.
Oh dear.
Never let you detonate the warp core.
Oh man.
And he's instantly a dick.
I mean, he's more likeable and he supports mariner here and all
the mariner conflict with ransom is kind of addressed.
Um, and like everyone gets a sort of, what's it, Dr. Miglimo?
Yes, it was.
What was the viscosity?
doesn't have anything nice to say.
It's so perfect.
Just the 2 perfect things for the 2 of them to say together they
make a perfect senior science officer and now they're off into the
distance.
And I love how they try and prevent ransom from coming up with a
catchphrase.
I have people complaining.
You hear people complaining about how every captain has to have a
catchphrase, you know, let's fly for, um, uh, for Sanita. see
what's out there.
No, it's like engage.
It's like the equivalent of engage, you know?
Well, Cisco's.
Fire.
No, no, in 90s trek in 90s trek. not 90s track in this version of
track in Kurtzman track.
So, um, Anson Mount has hit it, you know, um, and he's just going
to be engaged the core, which they kind of say, no, no, no, maybe
it could just emerge naturally during the course of our new show.
You know, you don't have to come up with it now and they get
really cross into how terrible it is.
Another way this is perfect is it leaves you wanting more.
These too, get shot.
The shot, the window and like, and the, oh.
And both of the Freemans kind of toasting the Cerritos as it
goes.
You don't want to sound...
You know what it sound forced?
Don't make this all live, sir, please.
What if this is a five-year mission?
Engage the call.
Come on, you don't want to set up that turn.
It's great isn't it?
Oh, terrific.
Yeah, that was wonderful, wasn't it?
What a run.
What a try out.
Oh, it really does leave you want him more, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Massive. and you know what?
Like, they, I can see why they ended here.
I absolutely can, is that they've given us what, 50 episodes in
total, you know, of a really good standard.
But they could have just kept churning them out, right?
Well, you never know.
I did take a look at the memory alpha page and it had Mike McMahon
being interviewed and talking about spinoffs and characters that
he started to introduce a little bit more like Ollie and stuff.
And clearly, you know, it sounded like he wasn't averse to
revisiting this as an idea.
But everything ends and I'm really happy that we have this forever
to kind of go back to because it's really properly grade.
I think you should go out at your best.
Yeah, yeah.
And not limp to a conclusion.
Now, I think Next Generation went out a year after it should have
done, I think Voyager went out probably 2 years after it should
have done.
I think DS9 got it about right, like it went out, it went out when
all of those sort of plots were culminating and in a really
exciting way.
Enterprise went out too early.
That's probably the one that went out too early.
Picard absolutely, I think, was at the right point and in the
right way as well.
Discovery.
Maybe Discovery should have gone a year earlier.
Well, I really like series 5, though, I have to say, but as I said
to you, the problem with it is that they've had COVID and like the
production of discovery is longer than the production of any other
Star Trek series and they just start to lose people and they do
get people back, but you know, Saru is marginalised by it.
We get Tilly back.
You know, we get a deer back properly.
Second week 4 was such a high standard.
But maybe you should go out at your absolute best, you know?
But 5 was fun, and I do think 5 does the same thing.
I think you saw it, didn't you?
You saw the coda where she's a little bit older and, you know
she's still with Bork and stuff.
And I, like, I thought that was pretty good and her getting to say
a final goodbye to Discovery and stuff.
So like, I don't know.
It's probably the highest endorsement that I could give lower
decks is had it gone on for a 6th or a 7th season.
I can absolutely confirm I would be saying, absolutely go out on a
high.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Because it just didn't go down below being on a high, you know?
It's funny now though, isn't it?
Because there isn't any Star Trek until, well, next month, actually
now that I think about it.
We're getting a new series, I think, next month of Strange New
Worlds, which is hugely exciting because, you know, I just think
it's incredible, like a great Star Trek series. easily the most
popular thing that they've done in Cosman Train.
Yeah, and maybe the, you know, apart from this, it's definitely of
the how many we've had 3 live action shows, you know, it's clearly
the most consistent and successful one.
And, you know, like next year, I think we still definitely have
another Star Trek coming with Star Fleet Academy set in the 31st
century.
So there's more Star Trek coming, but there was a sort of just a
glorious moment where there was just a lot of Star Trek happening
and we seem to kind of be past that now, which is a bit of a
shame.
We had that period with Doctor Who, didn't we?
When it came back in 2005 and there was 2 spinoff shows as well.
And there was this glut of the Doctor Who universe.
And then that sort of wound down a little bit.
And then Star Trek came along and there was a glut of Star Trek.
And now that started winding down a little bit again.
Ooh, I wonder what's coming next.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to
find out where we're going next.
We have had 2 pretty excellent weeks of some very high quality
Kurtzman tracks.
So I suppose it's time to watch something terrible.
Yes, I can almost guarantee that it's going to be shockingly
terrible compared to what we just watched.
We're heading to Voyager, USS Voyager.
We do.
I mean, I love it even when it's really bad.
Except maybe course oblivion, which is awful.
Oh, and threshold.
That was unforgivable.
Yeah, but we've done both of those.
They can't hurt us anymore.
I mean, we're in pretty much safe territory unless I choose a
Harry Kim, a Chakotay, or Tom Paris episode, but that is half the
rum.
All right, I'm feeling brave.
Now, come on, let's channel good vibes and see what we get.
Okay.
Oh shit.
Well, no need to go any further if we're looking for a really shit
episode.
So the danger is that I'm going to insist that we do it, right?
Is that why you said, 0 shit?
Yes.
No, FBI is really, truly, diabolically, okay.
All right.
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season six, episode five
Alice.
Oh, I don't really even know this.
I've definitely seen it.
So how is Christine, isn't it?
Christine, right?
Tom Paris makes an evil spaceship with a sexy eviction who's as
sexy as a wet fish.
Brilliant.
That sounds awesome.
Tom, you know you love to stroke my reactors.
You know, she says lions like that.
And Balana gets jealous.
Oh, come on, let's do it.
I was like, okay, all right.
Jesus, probably coming right.
And he gets to do like loads of his like, you know, but I don't
listen to me.
That's my favourite thing that he does.
And we know he's in Dire Straits by the end of the episode because
he's got a bit of scruff.
That's the only way they show it visually.
Yeah, all right.
Oh, is it is it feeding off his life force?
I can't remember.
I do remember there's a bit where he walks out of the cargo bay
right?
It's like, well, see you in the morning, Alice.
This is before, you know, she's materialised as his sexy vixen.
She's so unsexy.
Just you wait.
And then the camera lingers back into the cargo bay.
And you know, you're just waiting for it, like in Christine, the
film.
It all lights up. da da.
Oh, no.
Well, we've recently done a horror episode in season 6 of Star
Trek 4, haven't we?
The haunting of deck 12.
Yeah, that wasn't that terrible though.
I thought it was quite good. actually.
I would like you to try and find the same positivity that you
found for that episode for this one.
Okay, I will do my best, but given that the worst Robert is the
lead.
I think the outcome is more or less certain.
I think you're right.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Citron, and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 20th of May 2025 and released on
the 23rd of May.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Alice.
Oh, man, it's ghastly.
I can almost guarantee this one is really bad.
Really bad.
I'm going to.
I just remember the woman playing Alice.
It's really wooden.
You need like a proper vixen in that role, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, excellent.
Wait.
So my keyboard come back.
Memory alpha.
Alice.
I just want to see her.
There'll be a picture of her, won't there?
There should be.
No, Alice Wicki, dedicated to American McGee.
Yeah, she is, the worst video game series.
Oh, wait a minute.
There she is.
Nathan.
Oh no, that's terrible.
What's happening there?
She looks quite cross.
Teleplay by Brian Fuller, though, co-creator of Star Trek
Discovery, and directed by David Livingston.
Everyone's go-to director for just who gives a shit.
Let's let's get David to do it.
Terrible.
Oh, no, look.
It looks like they made the Alice model look.
Oh, can you buy it?
So he makes it.
I can see he's got scruff there and she's torturing him or
possibly edging him.
I can't actually tell.
Yeah, she is all seducing him in that bit.
Okay.
Oh, this is a bit there.
Look, where he's going, no.
Let me come.
Okay, no, sorry.
Oh, I can't believe there's a scene where Bilana's like, you're
spending too much time with that spaceship.
Oh, God.
Like, and she's so good.
Why do they waste her on stupid crap like that?
You know how much fun we have with the bad ones, though.
Yeah.
Especially at night is trek.
I know, I know.
I know.
Yeah, we have had 2 ones after a really abysmal one.
Yeah.
So I'll hit right has been one bat.
Two superb ones.
One bad. one terrible one.
We should try and get some of these average ones done, you know.
That's all that's gonna be left at the end.
I know.
That's part of the problem, is it?
Like we really want to do the good one.
I think sometimes we do pick average ones.
We have done darkling after all, the quintessentially average
episode of Voyager.
I have to rename ourselves halfway through the run of untitled mid
Star Trek or something like that mid-Star Trek Project.
Unremarkable Star Trek Project.
Oh, there's a few.
All right.
Okay.
Alice.
It's the thing.
Expect messages.
Well, I kind of I sort of want to watch it now, except I'm really
tired.
I have to go to bed.
I remember there's a very camp man in it. called Abidon, I think.
Yeah, Abaddon is one of the names of the devil.
There is a character called Abaddon. is he's like the secondhand
dealer or something?
Yeah, but he's got like a shootskin coat and it's like, oh, yes
you can have this ship on me, you know, it's just trying to get
rid of her.
And then they go back to him later.
And then she starts trying to seduce Abbott.
Oh, just terrible.
That sounds awful.
Is he gay, though?
She can't seduce him because he's a big game.
It's interesting because that comes just after Ron Moore ditches
Voyager.
So you have those 4 episodes, um, the 2nd half of Equinox, survival
instinct, Bulge of the Dead, and Tinker Tenor, Doctor Spy.
And I can just remember this huge lift of like, oh, my god.
It's finally got its back together.
And then after Alice, it's riddles, which is the one where Chewbok
loses his memory and Neelix has to teach him...
Oh, yeah, it is really bad.
Is it as bad as fucking the Changeling with Ahura?
No.
Nothing's quiet.
I think it's quite as bad as that.
Yeah.