Hey, Joe. Hi.
So what are we watching today?
Well, by a complete coincidence, we just so happened to be
watching a Picard episode.
After last week.
I want to make I make a quick disclaimer before we go in.
Because I think I was probably a little more negative than I
wanted to be during the last episode.
Um, and I want to just say kind of going into Nepenthe.
This is a stunningly good episode of Star Trek.
Like, whatever issues I have with Picard as a whole.
It can deliver.
And this delivers big.
And it delivers what I think people want it from Picard, which is
a massive shot on nostalgia.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think it works thematically as well.
Like, it's a pivotal episode in the show, and it's not entirely
about our old next generation characters as well, because the
other regular cast get things to do.
And there's a fairly solid B plot, I think.
There is.
And that's the other thing I'd like to say about Picard is I think
by the end of the season, they have assembled a worthy successor
cast to the next generation.
Like, I think the the ensemble in Picard is really strong.
I don't like what they do to some of these characters, especially
what's the blonde woman's name who I really love?
She's so cute and they do terrible things to her.
Yeah, yeah.
Have her murdering people and swallowing terrible pills and...
She vomits twice in this episode.
Not nice.
And she's so cute.
She's so lovely.
And the actress is really, really good.
And Raffi, I absolutely love.
Her relationship with Picard.
All right, it pisses me off that she calls him JL. really
annoying.
Apart from that.
I think the actress is really great. 7 of 9 comes in and she's at
our absolute best.
Jerry Ryan is stunningly good.
The guy we both fancy Rios.
Oh, he's so beautiful. things I could do with that man.
Wow, he's playing a multitude of characters and they're all really
fun.
So by the end of the season.
We've got a fine...
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
You've completely ignored the token Australian in the cast.
Who's that?
Who's Elanor?
The adorable Romulan?
The pretty little Romula.
Yeah, see, he's lovely, but he's a bit serious, isn't he?
No, he's not.
He's a comic character.
Like they play him for laughs quite a lot.
Yeah, we don't see it here, but there's a lot of times when he's
just literally played for laughs.
I think it's such...
It looks like he stepped straight out of Lord of the Rings from
the big saw.
Yeah.
You think that's a comic character?
I think you need to rewatch it because a lot of the time he is
being played for laughs and I think it's adorable.
He's very sexy.
That's all I would say.
Oh, he's such a pretty young man.
And the Romulan guy with a beard is really sexy as well.
This is a very sexy cast.
All the women are very sexy.
They've chosen them well.
No, the woman who plays Narek's sister Larissa, I think, is
stunningly gorgeous.
Either to you, when I watched this the other day in preparation
for this, about Marine Syrtis and how she had obviously visibly
aged since the last time we saw a nemesis.
God damn it, she's still hot.
She's so good.
She's really good.
And it is that thing.
You know, we talked about how Marina Syrtus gets to be herself as
Tiana when she starts.
She's got the Greek accent.
She's really stayed and really kind of not very interesting.
And then they lean into making her a little bit more fun.
But, I mean, basically the only personal characteristic she ends
up with is liking chocolate.
You know, that's the only thing that we know about Deanna.
Oh, and having a mum.
Oh, I'm not going to say the best showing for Troy's the movies
because, you know, the boob firming conversation, crashing the
ship and all of that.
But in terms of her just bringing Buckingham personality and
herself.
And then her Voyager episodes that she's a Pathfinder.
She's really, very good.
She's great.
This, I'm going to say, right?
Because you know, I think Troy is a pretty worthless character.
Um, this is her best episode by a mile.
It's wonderful.
They lean into her appalling psychobabble. in a way that's
genuinely meaningful in this.
And the interactions between home and Picard, which was just so
cold and professional in the next generation.
Here, it's just warm and love, and I just believe that these 2
people absolutely love each other.
It's terrible.
I wanted it to be like this in the next generation.
Yeah, I actually think what's really, really wonderful is the
relationship between Riker and Picard, because it's nothing like
what it is on the show.
Nathan, I'll tell you what, you would know something about this
you know?
Talk about a silver fox.
How good does he look with the prey?
Yeah, yeah.
I think he looks a bit rough actually and could tidy it up a bit.
I, he, well, also the same thing to you during the lockdown.
Honestly.
Well, I'm looking a bit rough today as well.
But there's a real warmth and there is a shot at the end, which I
think is stunningly beautiful.
And if you go to the website, you'll see it, where the 3 of them
hug, and both of them kiss Picard.
Like a Riker kisses him.
There's a real physical ease between them, a real proper warmth
and respect, and there's a scene in this, right, where Riker says
to Picard, oh, and only the great Jean-Luc Picard could possibly
take the weight of all this on his shoulders.
And every time I see that scene, I think back to that 1st scene
when they're together, where Picardo's being an absolute fucking
arsehole to him, it's like, you know, I don't want to make an arse
of myself with kids.
You got to prove yourself to me.
You got to go and separate that saucer.
You've got to head down to Far Point Station and have a tedious
adventure down there.
And how far they've come?
And he's now, he's not, he's not confronting him.
He's actually, the scene has a purpose.
He's trying to make him realise. you can lean on people, you
know.
It's really, really great.
And it's there's a moment towards the end where Picard says to
Riker, thank you for not talking me out of this.
I know better than that.
But, I mean, Riker guesses the whole thing as well.
That's a great scene as well.
That's smart.
You know, they're properly smart.
It is so good.
But the bit as well, obviously, we're going to talk about as good
as we go in.
And also the bit where she says to Picard about Soji and, you know
how dare you, you do not know what she is going through right
now.
And I'm just like, I never knew Troy could be this good.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, don't, come on. be honest with me.
They row her pretty appallingly throughout the next gen round.
Yeah, I love it, man.
I love...
Alcar, no.
Do you remember the bit when she goes to the transporter room and
she's like the total vamp at this point.
Yeah, yeah.
And she's got the knife and she wrestles with the card. is the
campus thing you've ever seen in your life.
Oh, that thing, maybe maybe he's just sick of hearing you whining
all the time.
I know I am.
She's so good.
I really want to watch that. definitely want to watch that now.
What is it?
Oh no, we're going to kill her off and we'll bring her back in 2
minutes time.
Okay, yeah, yeah, it's terrible.
But, oh, man, I kind of really wish it was part of this show
written this well. you know, because here's the potential of Troy
right here.
Yep, you know?
Well, I think what's happening here is, and I think the show
itself comments on it.
You're taking people from a procedural show that was entirely
about space problems where massive things would happen to people
every week and there would be no consequences.
And in fact, the only proper time that they do give consequences
is best of both worlds. where they devote that episode family to
Picard's recovery from being turned into a Borg.
And obviously that trauma is then revisited in 1st contact and
again here.
And getting these characters who were not at all designed for this
kind of show and putting them in here and seeing what happens, I
think is really interesting.
But you know what they're doing as well?
is they're leaning on the actors, like very natural love and
chemistry for each other.
And they absolutely should be doing that, you know?
And I'm hoping when spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen trailers
Whoopi Goldberg comes in in season 2 and John Delancey comes in in
season 2 that this continues, you know, and I think it will.
I think Rod Goldberg is going to be just astonishing in this
show.
Yeah.
There's just, there's just like a deafness to the characterisation
that just wasn't there in TNG.
And it wasn't what it was about, really, you know?
I also think too, that generally speaking, the dialogue in
Kurtzman trek is streets ahead of the dialogue in most of Berman
trek.
And so having these people speak more naturally, having them talk
like people and say things that are revealing of character and
stuff like that rather than sort of barking technobabble at each
other.
I think it's a great improvement.
I'll quote a scene from Bourbon Trek.
And the ego want to execute my son.
I will not allow that to happen, Jean-Luc.
We need to talk.
Oh, I do.
Okay, now massive DS9 apologies.
And I do think as DSI goes along, they learn how to script those
characters really, really well.
But they're so distinct characters.
The dialogue's almost like self-perpetuating by the end because
the characters are so well defined.
But in like Voyager and Enterprise, it's a struggle at times.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, what do you think?
I think we should watch it.
I think we probably should as well.
We've talked it all through already, but...
Oh no, I don't think I'll run out.
All right.
So I'm queued up.
Let's count in 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off.
I would like to point out immediately.
Yeah, that this episode is 58 minutes long.
Would you like to stand a length for a Star Trek episode?
No, no.
And obviously we've said this before because this is streamed
rather than broadcast, it can be as long as we like.
Oh, I would like to say, even though I do criticise the ball
scenes for being intermined to be boring and they are, the actual
ball cube that they build, in episode one, when they come out of
it and it's got all these layers and things, it looks
astonishing.
It looks great. doesn't it?
So, Soji, for goodness sake, she's so good.
And we didn't really talk about her before as a regular.
No, do you know what?
What really surprised me about the 1st episode was I had forgotten
that her sister was killed in the 1st episode.
Yeah.
I thought that was the character.
So when I rewatched the 1st episode, I was shocked all over.
And it was that she had a sister.
But I really like this whole artificial intelligence angle.
And the fact that it's been banned and the fact that it makes data
a very important character without even really appearing, um, and
she is just, they've cast her. brilliantly.
Yeah, she's very engaging to watch.
Well, also, remember that data is different from the other
characters because of his skin and eye colour, which are sort of
racial characteristics.
And so sometimes, particularly in say measure of a man, there's a
kind of racial element to it.
And having her with, you know, she's got these striking green eyes
despite her overall look, which I think kind of sells that too.
Now, he's a great scene. kicks offs.
Now, look, this is one of my issues with this episode.
Just doing nasty things again.
I'm not so keen on this.
What's the woman's name?
The head of staff Commodores?
Commodore O. With her black sunglasses.
What's that all about?
She's scary as hell, I think.
The performance is really good.
Yeah, I don't know.
And then she makes her swallow this pill and chew it.
And it was all a bit tortuous and a bit nasty.
So every episode of Picard just about seems to start with a, with
a, um, flashback like this, and so this is a flashback to what
midway through the season, like sometime between episode one and
two, uh, this is happening.
And we've had the mystery of why Agnes kills Bruce Maddox, we've
mentioned Measure of a Man, and Bruce Maddox is the character, if
not the actor from that.
And I'd forgotten that he died as well.
So you're a bloody assassination list.
Yeah, that's right.
But she works with him.
Wasn't she in love with him?
Yeah, but he's disappeared.
Remember, he disappears.
Um, they decide that it must be, um, I think we discover that this
episode.
He's gone for 15 years because of the synth ban and he's gone to
this other planet in order to continue his research into producing
synthetic life forms.
So, was it the same actor?
No, no.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
That's a shame.
Actually, he was a bit wooden in measure of a man.
So, yeah, I think that's a superb episode. excellent.
Yeah.
But Agnes is so good here.
Like, she's sort of frightened.
This.
Holy shit.
Yeah, so here we go.
So we saw this previously or maybe we see it later.
I can't remember.
There is a flashback where we discover that, oh, and um, Larissa
so Narek's sister, I think she's called Larissa, are members of
the Jart Vash, and that this flashback that Girati has just seen
is the admonition.
Yeah, that's her 1st vomit, vomit number one.
Lovely.
And so there is some terror thing.
If we don't ban the synths, if we don't take this action, this is
what it will lead to.
Yeah, this is what it'll lead to.
I actually think this is frightening and she sells the hell out of
it.
She's so good and the line.
She's really good.
But the weird thing about her is she's kind of been comic relief
up until the point where she murders Maddox.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's absolutely deliberate that they make us lie.
Look at the look on her face as she's chewing it.
The chewing line is so frightening because we know it's now not a
tracking device that can be beamed out of her or extracted that it
becomes a systemic thing.
You know, it's it's all throughout the body.
That's unpleasant.
Terror watching. characters that I really like, like going through
very unpleasant things.
Like, I know that's drama and I get it.
No, no, no, no.
And like, yeah.
And this is an episode where terrible things happen to Agnes, I
think.
I like how...
I don't know.
I do quite like the bit where she vomits up the red velvet cake
and you're supposed to think it's glass.
That's really funny.
Do you know, I was really not keen on the design of this shit
right?
When I 1st watched it, I really love it now.
It's so different from, you know, that fucking tedious bridge set
of Next Generation.
I think that you get a real sense of it as a space in a way that
you don't ever, even though we spend 7 years on the Enterprise D
Oh here we go.
Like, do you remember when I said to you, like, I thought the
technology and next generation, all those lights on the consoles
were like, yeah, the most sophisticated technology I could think
of?
Now it's all like, um, like projection in the air. and they've
taken they've just taken it to sort of the modern day and it's
very cool.
I love it.
That's really good.
So she's called Larissa.
She English.
She's an English Romulan.
We have an Irish Romulan as a semi-regular on this show as well.
She's especially memorable.
I think she's fucking terrifying and particularly in this scene.
She's so great.
So she's questioning Hugh about where Picard has gone and Picard
has travelled to Nepenthe, you know, 10, you know, 1000s of light
years away or whatever, using technology that was denied to
Voyager in the episode Prime Factors.
Pride Factors is a very good episode, alright?
But we discover that they've been assimilated and I hope that
arsehole in Prime Factors with a weird accent was one of them and
got turned into a...
He is so bloody creepy, anyway.
We're not giving you our sea crafts.
You know, a strange man.
Look at these visuals.
Oh, and see, this is awful as well, isn't it?
So she's killed all of the XPs and that's been what he's working
on.
And that is probably too much.
You as well.
He's just watched all these people get murdered in front of him
and he's crying over the bar.
I mean this is nasty.
This is not nice.
Yeah, I think this is nasty.
And you're right.
I think they're absolutely leaning into that sort of Game of
Thrones shock factor.
And occasionally it does work very well.
Yeah.
Like the bit where she kills Maddox, that is genuinely shocking.
Like no one I didn't see that coming.
No, you know.
But afterwards, I was just like, why did they do that?
Yeah, yeah.
But, I mean, in a sense, you know, um, She's Narissa, not
Larissa.
In a sense, you know, they're right.
The Jart Vars are right.
Aren't they?
So they, uh, opposed to synthetic life.
That's why they killed Darj, and that's why they used Soji to try
and find the home planet because...
Oh, when we go to that planet, they genuinely are planning.
Some kind of an uprising.
I make...
No, what happens is that when synths reach a certain level, those
big tentacles from another dimension come in and...
Now we're in next generation territory.
It looks so great though.
I mean, those flowers look great, but it did take me back to
FarPoint, and those jokes are coming up, you know?
Oh my god, this ball cube looks so good.
Yeah, yeah, doesn't it?
But like this scene, we are still considerable way into this
episode and we haven't actually seen Picard or Soji yet.
And well, it's like you said before, though, like, if you've got a
cast of characters that you enjoy being with.
Like, you know, I'm not really enjoying the nastiness of the
beginning of this episode.
I do like being with these characters, you know?
It's fun to watch.
Pretty, pretty, Elanor. gosh he's so gorgeous.
Honestly.
His eyebrows are a bit extreme.
Well, he's a Romulan.
It's a thing.
I'm sorry.
I swear, God, I saw him in the hobby, you know.
He looks like he has stepped straight out of a Tolkien movie.
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Um, he, he, I think his parent, um, Mari, like, um, uh, he has
such a striking look and he's so pretty and really funny and I
adore the fact that they let him do his Australian accent.
I just think that's great.
Well, do you know what?
I really like Rios because he's the one character who's just like
a nice bloke and you know what I mean?
And like, like, uh, Raffi, she was a drunk and lost her career and
0 god, what's her name again?
The blonde one I like.
Agnes. thank you very much You know, she goes through this whole
thing of assassinating the person that she loves.
Whereas Rios is just, he's a bit of a bad boy, but he's actually a
very nice.
We do get a backstory about why he leaves Starfleet and it's
pretty grim.
There he is.
Santiago Cabrera plays um plays Trios.
Oh my god, how late is this title sequence coming 10 minutes in?
Yeah.
It's really long too.
But what do you think?
This title sequence, which is...
I was so uncertain when I 1st watched it.
Now I love it.
Yeah, I think it's beautiful.
I mean, in a sense, it is a trip through the things that make
Picard who he is.
I'm not sure what the dodecahedrons are, but whatever. unearthed
in an amateur archeological expedition perhaps.
But it's beautiful and the music is stunning.
And, you know, like, I do agree with you about music in Kurtzman
Trek, and especially the title music in Kurtzman Trek. always very
good.
I'm just wondering.
But this is this is just there's something, I don't know, it's
slower.
It's very, the images are just very beautiful.
Yeah.
But it's sort of fragments of these things that go to make up who
Picard is and that's what it is.
And then, I've got to say this, Nathan, God, he looks old.
Yeah, really old.
I've said you a 1000000 times, I would not criticise someone for
ageing.
They have announced that Picard is only going to 3 years and I can
probably see why, you know.
Look, I think it's extraordinary.
The fact, I wonder whether, oh, look at that shot with that rock
arch, this is such a beautiful place here.
But they really lean into his age as well.
And like in this, in the 1st episode, and especially that scene
where he talks to that horrible admiral, who tells him to fuck
off.
They're kind of leaning into the fact that he's past his best
aren't they?
You know, and he's a bit of a relic.
Yeah, he's a little bit frail in this episode.
There's a scene where he's frailty is kind of a thing.
It's it's good.
I like that.
The great thing about it is you've got this really old guy as the
lead and sometimes this is the most dynamic Star Trek you've ever
seen in your life.
There's that sequence in episode one where the Tao Shiara trying
to take out what's her name?
Darsh.
And he's basically just standing there because he can't do much.
But bugger me.
That sequence looks like it's sprung from the Matrix.
So good.
So this is Kestra and she is Kestra Troy Riker.
Where's that name from?
So it's from the episode Dark Page.
And we did have a reference to tapestry just then with Picard's
artificial heart as well.
I think that that's actually never commented on, you know, if you
know, you know, if you don't, it doesn't matter.
But have a think about Kestra.
So Castra was Deanna's sister, who Deanna didn't know about, and
she drowned, right?
In a terrible accident when Deanna was just a baby, I think.
And it's a pitifully melodramatic episode.
Yeah, yeah.
So she reminds us of a tragedy in Deanna's family, if we recognise
that name.
Instantly, if you know it, but it kind of plants that seed and
then when we find out what happened to her, is her brother.
Yeah, her brother.
So he would have been 18 a few weeks ago. an older brother who
died of an illness and so what we've done is we've put these 2
characters, Riker and Troy into this show, which is much more
character driven, much more focussed on people's backstories and
stuff like that.
Naturally, something dreadful had to happen to him, obviously.
Because that's what life is like.
No, I know.
That's not really what we go to Star Trek for on the whole, is
it?
No, but you know, like Geordie loses his mom in series 7 or
whatever and it's never mentioned again.
What's great about this, though, is the whole tragedy thing.
Oh my god, the sequence where Troy says to Picard, I'm not as
brave as I used to be.
Why if something happened to Kestra?
I love his response.
I'm not as brave as I used to be.
And Picard says, that's because you've got why smart.
Why is it?
It's beautiful.
Holy crap. dialogue is especially good in this episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Yep.
Look, this is like the fact that Kestra and Soji. have a very nice
relationship in this as well, because she says later on, I don't
trust you and I don't trust, but she kind of does trust the kids.
And my god, they found a kid actor who can act.
He's really good.
And he gets great lines as well, who also gets really good
dialogue.
It's so well done.
Dude, what's the funniest bit?
It's where Riker goes shields up.
They all go up round the house.
Good.
Right.
You can only imagine that everyone watching this have heard, this
is what people wanted.
Like they absolutely wanted to see a reunion between the, like, the
TNG crew.
But I think that the show by that point has established that it
isn't just wasted.
They wasted to actually seven.
And then she sort of holds out her arms, doesn't she?
And she's like, come give me a...
But no, no, but remember.
In TNG all good things.
Oh, look at her smile. look at her smile.
The most intimate she could, like they could have, was him coming
to a poker match.
Look how far we've come.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, look.
I mean, it's so warm.
It's so beautiful.
I love Marina.
I just love her so much.
She's so superb.
When I say this, this could have been like just the actors
reuniting and they could, and they lean to a bit.
This is Troy and Picard.
This isn't Marina Syrtis and Patrick Stewart.
Like, they are being... her touching his face.
I know. beautiful.
It's so beautiful.
Yeah, just the warmth.
You kind of, you feel the weight of the relationship, don't you?
But we never had that warmth in Star Trek, the Next Generation, or
anything like that between...
But it doesn't feel like it's a lie to their characters, you
know?
Well, they've been part of our lives for so long.
I mean, I was watching this as it aired, not this, Picard
obviously, I was watching that as it aired, but I was watching
Next Jan as it aired.
And so these people have been part of my life for such a long time
and just seeing them back and seeing them together and just the
those decades, you know.
It's so Virginia.
Stop yelling.
Oh yeah.
He's great.
I mean, I feel like sometimes he says freaks, right?
I think it is freaks, but I think that's good.
Just the way Marina, you know, Troy is Marina. let's lean into
that Nathan is making a lovely pizza.
Oh, when she said a pizza he makes.
Look how small Picard is.
Look how small he is compared to Riker. amazing.
Do you know what?
does kind of make me feel like we lost out a little bit?
Because one of the things I really love about DS9 is the intimacy
between the characters and how they're all very tactile with each
other.
Yeah, yeah.
And we could have had that in TNG a lot more.
But I mean, it was never about that.
It's the space problems issue, isn't it?
I don't know, maybe because they weren't this reward slap.
Yeah, and they're working.
They're colleagues, you know, Whereas this, you know, they've
retired, they're old friends.
So you want to be arse deep in Romulans for the rest of your
life.
And so that's great.
And we actually see the Romulan home world breaking up in the
opening credits.
That must be what that is.
And Picard knows that the right thing to do, even though they're
enemies.
Uh, you know, even though they're enemies is, is um, to save them
you know, but we won't do it because we're too scared.
The whole Riker and Troy relationship as well, right?
It's like so annoying.
They kept them apart for 7 fucking seasons.
And then only paid it off in the movies just for that one scene
where they got married in, was it Nemesis?
right at the end right at the end of their rum.
Yeah, ain't it great soon, is it?
There's something very off about Picard in that scene, you know, go
back and watch it.
He seems really pissed.
So what about the fact that when normally Deanna, when she's
called on the bridge, you know, do you send something and she goes
oh, I can't sense anything from him?
Or she senses something that was readily apparent to all of us at
home just by looking at the actor's facial expression or
whatever?
He or she can't sense anything, but she is able to comment on like
properly on Soji's body language and stuff like that.
You know, she's properly competent in a way that she's rarely
allowed to be in next generation.
You know, we haven't talked about a house or the location either.
It's just perfect, isn't it?
So this is a log cabin on the Paramount lot.
Um, yeah, yeah.
But the location...
You never would be able to tell that.
Oh, you mean the interior?
No, I think the house, the interior is the house, but this is a
house that Paramount owns that they've built and it is used in
other things as well.
Okay.
I don't know, I just, I love, it's so rustic.
I mean, this is what I'd like to hear for.
Remember where, um, um, Kirk retires too in generations.
It's that sort of feel.
I try not to, but yeah.
It's not good, is it?
Do you have spit?
A mucus.
What about this?
There's a wonderful line here that references 3 next generation
episodes in one sentence without being crap.
Which free, are they?
So it hasn't happened yet, but Kestra and Soji are currently
talking about data and Kestra's interrogating Soji about, you know
how human she is.
Like when Bashir asks data if his hair grows.
And it's wonderful, they seem because Soji is in a situation where
her childhood she discovers has been fabricated, and so are her
memories, and she's standing in front of a wall that's full of
pictures that Kestra has drawn, and possibly that Thad has drawn
which are all childhood memories.
You know, it's it's all about that.
It's so well done.
Yeah, all he wanted to do was have dreams and tell jokes and learn
how to ballroom.
Oh, it does.
They just...
The outrageous O'Connor.
Fry part one.
It's that 2 parter on DSI, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's terrific.
Yeah, isn't it good?
It's so good.
I actually think the callbacks on Picard are a lot subtler.
I quite like how they do it in Picard.
Yeah, they're kind of far more invested in the world they're
trying to build.
It's probably the most original, actually, of all of them.
Yeah, I think that's probably...
Maybe Discovery skips into the future.
Yeah, that is pretty damn inventive.
That's a that is very a strange reinvention of Starfleet, which I
think is really good.
But this scene is great.
And the child actor does such a good job.
She's really, really good.
Absolutely, you should believe it.
That's her daughter.
Look at this.
So this is Deanna going into Thad's room where Picard's going to
have a nap and she has to steal herself before she does it.
And when does she get to do that kind of acting on Star Trek?
I mean, do you remember that dreadful episode of The Child where
she literally has a baby in a day who grows up in a day and then
dies in the day?
And then the next week, we're doing the outrageous fucking
O'Connor or something like that.
Gotten all about it.
Finally, you know, emotional consequences.
Yeah.
Look at that.
So this is out playing that, you know?
That's right.
And that, look at that.
There's such reality to this, the old friends meeting after
decades.
It really properly.
Look at the picture of Picard and the baby.
No, it's adorable, isn't it?
Proud grandfather.
Oh, we're fine really.
Oh Yeah it's really sad.
Oh, do you know what, Nathan?
The more I'm watching this, the more I'm seeing missed
opportunities and no 7 seasons.
But look.
Like when Picard says that it must be a different ache for you, is
it is it watching Kestra slowly forget Thad that's heartbreaking
for her?
Or you can watch Kestra go through that grief.
You can see the pain in Marina Those's face that.
There are tears in her eyes the whole time she's talking.
Yeah.
I can only imagine what she thought when she got this script.
She must have been like, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
No, do you want to do this thing?
I would have done it anyway, but yes, definitely, you know.
Yeah.
Well, I mean she was always happy to come back, wasn't she?
She's wonderful.
Oh my goodness.
But like, you know, think of the last time we saw Picard and Troy
together in descent part two.
Like, it's nowhere near on this level, was it?
It was nowhere near a sophisticated, written, acted, you know
characterised.
Yeah.
I actually am coming to the conclusion.
I've probably watched in preparation for this.
I probably watched half of the series.
And I think that this is properly good.
And I do think that it's not without its problems, but I think
this is a good show.
Yeah, yeah.
I love the cast.
I love the ship.
I think it's smartly written.
I think interesting things are happening.
I don't think that every element works.
But, you know, I think this bit, this B plot works really well.
So they're being pursued by Narek, who is able to track them
because of the, um, the pill that Agnes ate in the flashback just
now.
Um, And Agnes is kind of losing her shit because she knows, and
again, it's all in the acting, we're not told, but she's aware
that the reason that Narek is able to track them is because of the
traces she took.
I, I, I, disagree to an extent.
I think, because the Kurtzman trait that I struggle with the
most.
Right.
Um, and I think it's because my preference is kind of uh, one off
episodes rather than uh, uh, a longer arc.
And I do think occasionally it portrays that kind of trek ideal of
of being optimistic and sometimes it is income.
There's one episode and I know you like it.
Stardust, City, Rag, or something.
Yeah.
And it's just nasty as hell.
And it's, it's, it just doesn't feel like Star Trek at all.
I think they get somewhere good in the 1st series. and I think it
has great individual moments and I think this is a very strong
episode.
Yeah.
But I do have a lot of problems with Sirius one.
I do.
Well, I think that there are longer, so I think it does have
pacing issues.
But watching it through the 2nd time, it was a lot clearer what
everything was trying to do.
Whereas, the 1st time it's like a... in the face.
Yeah, yeah.
And the 2nd time you can just sort of lean into what they're
trying to do.
And how well they're doing it at times.
I will maintain.
I think that 1st episode is very strong.
I think too, though, even though it is dark, it's fun as well.
Like it doesn't forget to have fun and most episodes have, like, I
think this bit of the plot, even though this is super dark.
Um, You know, Agnes has betrayed them, has been kind of convinced
to betray them, and is fully aware of that now.
Is it cake?
I'm sorry.
In this moment, she is me.
Because this would be my reaction to any stressing situation, to
go and get a red of a cake.
That is so adorable.
It's such a, like a little childish thing.
I thought Raffi was offering her drugs because I'm pretty sure
she's vaping marijuana in that thing.
And I think that that's intentional.
Oh, this, and just as seen as well.
Do you remember in next gen, how you'd have dialogue scenes and
yeah, your favourite, where you'd have 2 people facing the camera
or it would just be so stagey.
Like he's making a pizza throughout this entire scene.
It's something kind of realistic that you would do whilst having a
conversation.
But I also think as well.
The dialogue tends to be super awkward on Star Trek when it's not
sort of techno babble.
Like anytime where they're trying to interact with one another
never quite comes off.
And I think partly it's the acting, but I also think it's just the
lack of kind of naturalism in the dialogue.
They're trying to be people from the future.
Whereas this...
You know what?
I've got to say something.
You know I'm going to say something.
I'm not going to say it.
I can't say it too many.
I do think they get there.
They do get there.
I think they do.
I think I think they do as well.
But even this stuff, the Vavine thing, you know, like it's so, it's
you know, kids do invent languages.
It is a thing that happens.
Why did that?
You know that thing where you, uh, like you would be, A for Nay
where you take off the 1st...
Yeah.
I've like, oh, yay.
And I love this reaction where Soji drops that Kestra said that
her dad said that Picard was the greatest captain ever and Picard
smiles and looks over at him.
It's wonderful.
Speaking of drinking.
I think episode is, I think it's episode two.
It might be episode one. where they find the sign that's Captain
Picard. reaction when all the kids were making.
Oh, wonderful.
They do have Captain Freeman Day on lower decks.
Oh, no, no, no.
It's marvellous.
And you know what?
Like, like, this is, for me, you know, I've complained about
nostalgia, Kazmine Trait, but they do it a bit too bad.
This is just, this was needed.
Yeah.
Well, in fact, so this episode is called Nepenthe, and Nepenthe is
a, is from a Greek word.
It's actually mentioned in the Odyssey.
You know anything about Greek, Nathan?
A little bit.
And it's related etymologically to the word pathos, pathos.
But it means pain.
Like strong negative emotions, pain or suffering.
No, it means removal of that.
Forgetfulness.
It's a drug. that is given that allows you to forget your pain.
And that's what this is, that he just gets to hang out with his
friends and have pizza and chat and experience their love.
This shouldn't be what Star Trek is about at all.
It's supposed to be going off and explore, but this is like the
best of the season.
They're just hanging out.
He's making a pizza.
It's wonderful.
It is wonderful, but it's not just vamping.
It's not just spinning, it's weird.
Well, soji's there as well, isn't it?
Well, that's right.
So it's about Soji learning to, because it's not just Picard.
It's not just for Picard that this is Nepenthe.
It's for Soji as well.
But we love these people, don't we?
So when we just want to be with them, you know?
we want to be with them when they're written this well as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I love this machine of tomato.
It's beautiful, is it?
How does she eat food though?
She's a sim.
Oh, you know, like Bruce Maddox is very careful, very clever.
Mucus, bile, gastric juices.
She digest it and excrete it as well.
I think so.
I think she would have noticed in the last 3 years if she was
taking a crap. specifically going to mention that, but yeah.
Gosh, Marina say it looks so gorgeous.
Yeah.
You know what?
Well, we very, very rarely in Berber trip would get this much
location work in an episode as well.
No, that's right.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of location work.
Like the only set we've had so far as the Borg cube and um, The TV
has come along quite a bit in the last 20 years, isn't it?
Yeah.
The mind witches of the sudden eyes.
I know, it's beautiful, isn't it?
How many?
11 languages.
They must have never known what the bloody hell we were talking
about.
The butterflies.
But look, look how she's, she's smiling.
You know, she's starting to thaw.
And it's...
There are sort of space reasons for her thinking that this isn't
real because her childhood's not real.
It's all fake.
And we've seen people put in holodecks and simulations and strung
up to machines and all of that.
And so it's not unreasonable for her to think this isn't real
either.
She's got nothing.
And she's just been betrayed by Narek.
Oh, this bit too.
So Thad dies of a curable disease.
As a result of the...
Because electronic brains were available, they would have been
able to cure it.
So that ties again into the arc of the synths being banned.
That's right.
That's clever.
It's very clever The cost, you know, just the personal cost to
them.
And I do think that that, you know, Dr. Ben there, you know, she
can bring people back from the dead.
I really want her to be in season 12.
Season 2 of this.
I would actually, do you know what?
I was a bit predictable, but I would love for her and Picard to
speak together by the end.
That would be...
Oh, because we know they do get together in all good things, they
say.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. after the 7 seasons of next year, of
course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heaven forbid they had any character development.
No, exactly.
They do it in...
Well, it's like, um...
But you know what this is?
This is 7 seasons of courage development within a single episode.
It's madness.
I mean, this is so good.
This is a sort of exposition scene in a sense because, you know, if
you didn't tune in last week, here's what just happened to her.
But the way the actor, you know, the way that she plays it, how
real it feels, and look at that, Deanna reaches out to touch her
but super tentatively, it's so nice, and she's starting to warm
because it's Deanna, because Deanna is good at this, in a way that
we don't run away. does she run away?
From here, from this conversation. from the house later on.
No, no.
Doesn't she?
No, no, no, no.
She goes off when when Riker and and Picard come in.
So she does run off, but she doesn't run away from the house or
anything.
And it is, she doesn't want to let herself, that's the thing.
She doesn't want to let herself let her guard down, let herself be
okay about this.
And then Picard comes in and is a bit of a prick, you know, like
he comes in and says, oh, yes, of course, this is a simulation and
stuff, and it's absolutely the opposite of what he needs to hear
she needs to hear.
And this bit, that's a bit where Picard's frail and vulnerable.
She just walks past and brushes into him and he stumbled.
I mean, they shouldn't pretend that he's a virile man.
I think it's that's good.
That is good.
You know, there's a story about Marina Sertis, I have to tell you
which I really, really love.
And it's about her relationship with her mother.
And she is openly says, you know, it was a tough relationship.
And basically no matter what she did work wise, it was never
enough for her mother and her mother came down hard on her when
she took on the role in the next gin.
You know, like it was an embarrassment.
And essentially, she, um, emancipated, like she, she just broke
free of her mother.
And, you know, at this point in her career.
I mean, she is absolutely ridden away with success for this show
hasn't she?
Star Trek.
And I'm not sure what's happening with her mother now, but...
She's probably no longer with us.
I'm saying she should be very proud.
She's, you know, she's stuck it out in a pretty thankless role for
7 years.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, this scene too, where she tells him off, where she
just says, that was stupid, you know, coming in and saying that
was stupid and was exactly the wrong thing to say, and you
deserved that.
And she had a few moments like that.
And the next generation where she would contradict Picard or she
would kind of go for him.
It was nowhere near as definitely real as this.
No that's right.
Look at her.
That's how you, Jean Luke.
Pretend there are dinner table.
They should have said the observation lounge, though, I think.
We'll find a way forward together, she says.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I mean, that's Kurtzman Trek as well.
That's what that's about.
I've just forgotten.
He comes along at the end, doesn't he?
Riker?
Yes.
In the last episode in a ship, in the middle of the battle.
There was a black screen, then, and I thought things had gone
horribly wrong, but it was just the ad break.
We have known to have the old technical issue.
So here's Eleanor and Hugh again and Hugh is obviously heartbroken
because of all of his XBs were killed in that sort of really rough
scene before the opening credits.
And now they're going to escape and here's Narissa.
I've got a question about this, about the nature of this series
being like a condensed arc with different chapters.
Like, do you think this excludes the casual viewer that's just
going to dip in and out?
Yeah, I think it's not intended for that at all.
And because it's streamed, you could wait and binge it, he just
said choose to live in Romulan.
Did you see that?
And that's what the um, Kawat Malat say to one another before
attacking, say to you before they attack you.
And there was a discovery episode just recently called choose to
live.
So that's what the Romulan truth nuns say before they attack you.
Nathan, this is rather our thing.
But have you noticed how dramatic the lighting is in this scene?
It's so good.
So good.
I mean, there's no reason why they can't just have a 1000 fucking
bulbs in a ball cube to light up the whole thing.
But it's far more dramatic this way.
Uh, just, just kill him, Elanor, you sweet boy.
Oh, she's so good.
I think she is a really terrific villain, actually.
I'm a big fan.
I tend to like it when there's a female villain, they.
Yeah, yeah.
She's awesome.
I'm not sold on Elnor's series 2 hair, I have to say, in the
trailer.
If you watch the trailer, you, you couldn't find him in it.
Is that because his hair was different?
Yeah, well, no, no, no, but he has much worse hair and I love this
long kind of legolass hair.
Oh, here there's Hugh.
Why what have they done to his hair?
It's sort of a bit more, it's shorter and a bit curlier.
I've gotta be honest.
That 2nd season looks really fun.
Yeah, definitely.
That is great.
That was so good where he pulls the knife out of Hugh's neck and
just flings it straight at Narissa, who only escapes by beaming
out in time.
I think killing Hugh is a mistake and it's, we'll get killing
Echeb next week.
No, no, no, the week after.
Oh, has it already happened?
Because 7... next week. female villains.
Do you remember that female villain in the Stardust episode?
who looked very like Counsellor Troy back in the next generation.
And she and there was this implication that she'd been, oh, fucking
with 7 and 9.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She was amazingly camp.
It was one.
It was like Ardra from that TNG episode coming.
All right.
Here's the cake scene.
Oh, look at that.
That's what gas make, that is.
I love how the replicators do the 3D printer special effect now.
You know, like the, you know, our technology's advanced and so it
doesn't just...
People aren't going to be vaping in the future, you know?
She's vaping weed.
That feels like a very contemporary touch.
Well, he's smoking a cigar.
I like it.
I think it should be contemporary.
You know, I don't I don't think this is the future.
This is a TV show that took place last year and I think it needs
to be contemporary.
Part of the problem with NextGen was that it was never
contemporary.
I like that, though.
I like that you could vanish off into that into the future.
Or that it makes the future.
It makes the character seem less real.
Well, and it's dated the whole thing terribly now as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, this line, a good person.
I not a good person in an emergency.
I could slap together a good person.
And it's such a clever line and look at her reaction.
How I felt most days, you know.
Oh, so good.
And she goes, is it Chris?
I just can't watch people vomit in.
I'm sorry.
I know it's coming.
I love her hair, you know, Raffi.
Oh, yeah, yeah. with the braids.
Yeah.
But is it, are you sad because you boned Chris?
Because you boned Rios.
It kind of like are you kidding me?
Oh my word.
Are you saying you wouldn't go up to her?
Oh my god, look at him.
Although, I don't know.
I think the English one.
The English accent, yes.
The EMH.
Well, each of the holograms has a different accent.
So the emergency.
Is he English?
Was he American?
I think he's American.
That a good English accent.
Yeah, he does a good English accent.
So the bunny corn, which we saw, we actually saw the bunny, and it
is, I think, a reference to the dog from original Trek, because
it's a bunny, but it has a horn in the middle.
And that's why they're called bunny corns.
All I can remember is George Decay.
Trying to wrestle that very unimpressed form.
Poor dog. so happy about it.
Have you noticed?
He only gave more one slice of pizza.
Yeah, that seems like that's just not enough.
Ah, he's wood burn it.
He's done it in a wood burning oven.
Oh, it's the best.
So Tyken's Rift is a reference to a shitty next generation
episode.
I can't remember which one.
Oh, it's it's Night Terrace.
No.
It is.
It's a reference to night terrace.
Eyes in the dark.
One minute, okay.
It's so good.
Do you know what?
Look at how well this is lit with all the candles.
And I keep going on about the lighting, but isn't it?
Well, Star Trek the Next Generation has very flat studio
lighting.
Well, we talked about that bit as well.
Yeah, yeah.
But they're lighting a lot from within the set rather than...
Yeah, practical lights.
Yeah.
I love this moment too, where she has told Narek this information
and then Picard asks about it, and she looks kind of stricken
because if this is a simulation or a torture thing to try and get
information out of her.
That's the information she has.
And then Picard backs off immediately.
And instead talks about the experience he had meeting Darge and a
little bit more about what happened to Darge.
Dodge, a very pretty boyfriend.
He was very pretty, he died very quickly, though, unfortunately.
That was a shocking knife across the room.
Straight into the wall.
I'm going to be a little bit facetious for a second.
But like we've talked about how dreadful Star Trek romance can be
right?
And, and, you know, things like Wharf and Troy kissing and, oh, God
you know, Jane Way and her holographic dildo and all this.
Oh, it's all, it's just not a very sexy show.
It's not very sexy.
Well, I'm telling you now, those scenes between Soji and the
English guy with the beard, the Romulan.
Anyway.
Really hot.
Like it's the hottest Star Trek's ever been.
Yeah, I do it.
Yeah, they can.
Well, actually, no, Burnham and what's his name?
Book.
Oh, that's hard as well.
They're a hot couple.
Yeah, he's gorgeous.
Her and Ash were pretty hot as well.
I really liked Ash.
I thought he was a very handsome man.
Yeah, yeah.
Chase this up to it back to Star Trek things, quick.
No, but I mean, the fact that Star Trek has brought sex back.
I think is good.
You know, it's super prudish otherwise.
Well, it was all a bit weird in the 90s, riser and all of that.
Oh, yeah, they were...
Well, and, you know, like, um, Roddenbury was a big horn bag and
sometimes that came...
I was, I was above all that, nonsense, because there was that
senior way of the warrior, where you've got Dax and Kira sitting
there in leotards in the trill spa and I'm like, I love that with
the hot men.
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, they all look gorgeous, but it's
terribly exposed to the whole thing.
I don't mind that.
You just want to visit that spot.
Yeah, absolutely.
So here it is.
I want to visit Riker and Troy and have a pizza.
I do too.
Never thought I'd say that, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So, so this is her.
She's opened up.
She's explained about the lightning and the moons, like what she
told Narek in the previous episode.
What is that?
I can't remember.
Is that is that the location of the synth planet?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, Derek now?
That was hilarious.
That is the closest this gets to next gen. telling you.
It's wonderful. like it.
It's a dreadful old next gen planet.
A bit like descent.
No, it's like, it's like insurrection.
But it's a location.
It's beautifully realised.
Anything about insurrections. you know, that's terrible, wasn't
it?
And that, that's so beautiful.
Using the word that Thad used because Thad didn't have a homeworld
because he grew up on...
It's beautiful, isn't it?
So well done.
I'm sorry, I really want one of those candles.
I'm being... and I love this too.
So while they've been talking, we need to identify the planet.
Kestra, who is a teenager or maybe a bit younger, has been on her
phone under the table and actually...
Yeah, this is where you got to go.
But you know what?
Absolutely.
That's how children should be written as...
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
As a school teacher, though, that seeing kids with their phone
under the table, that's something that I can... with, yeah.
But in a way.
Captain Crandall, crazy old Captain Crandall.
So this, you know, like you said, it's we've kind of lent into
nostalgia of being back with Ryker and Troy, but it's absolutely
pushing the plot along.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
It's getting us from A to B. I ate a slice of a Borg cue.
You know, it wouldn't have been pointless to go see Riker and Troy
but it could have just been for the purpose of that, you know.
Yeah, but it was for healing Soji, for getting her to trust Picard
and forgetting Picard to realise that he's doing the right thing.
And that's what I love about this episode is there is just a tone
of like loveliness.
There's just a, it's just really lovely.
It's perfectly named.
Is a lot a lot of this isn't lovely.
That's what I'm saying.
But this just it's warm.
It's like a big hug this episode.
Yeah, yeah.
Look at Chris.
Look at that, man.
Holy crap.
Sorry, I was just watching.
We never had, you know, like we had attractive women, but the men
were always a bit rough looking on 90s track.
Is that right?
Avery Brooks?
Yeah, Avery Avery's handsome.
You know, Julian's handsome in a sort of way.
Yeah, Julia's handsome.
But generally it's all a bit rough.
Navar Burton.
Yeah, LaVar Burton and maybe Garrett Wang. as well.
He's pretty handsome too.
I do have a finger for Asian band.
Not particularly, but certainly him.
Yeah.
But I think, well, we're in an age now where the cast is pretty
like battered given.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, actors are pretty, you know.
But yeah, they've done the bulbiest thing they could possibly do
and they've put, you know, a much older man as the lead of this
show.
Yeah, but I mean, it is that, I think I said it before, whatever
plans they had, the moment they discovered that they could get
Stuart back to do another series of Star Trek.
You drop your plans and you just do that and it turns out that
that was the right decision.
What happened then?
Did he approach them?
I don't know.
No, I don't know.
I'm going to research that for next episode, right?
I love this.
Is she going for more slices of cake because there's exactly she's
going to poison herself with uranium hydride.
And I was wondering how we would be told that this was dangerous
or why the replicator letter replicated neurotoxin.
Can I say, Nathan?
The fact that you always get the names of these ships and
technobabble and everything.
It's one of the horniest things about this podcast, I'm telling
you.
I have to admit it was visible on the subtitles.
Okay, there it is.
This is so well acted too.
Like her reluctance...
Yeah, yeah, I don't know that she's trying to commit suicide
necessarily, but she is trying to poison herself.
Oh, certainly not, you know, trying to send herself to sleep.
Yeah, yeah, she's trying to poison herself and then she's, does
that count as a vomit, the foam coming out of her mouth?
Yes.
It's a 2.5 vomit.
We're literally right in her face right now.
What is the nature of your medical?
Oh, bloody hell.
Jesus Christ.
He's got the posh X. And they dress them all differently as well
which is quite nice.
My favourite is the one who's the pilot who only speaks Spanish.
She doesn't speak English.
I mean, that must be an incredibly fun role to play, right?
Yeah, and the fact that the engineering hologram has a crap
Scottish accent as well, I think is adorable.
This fella here.
The one with a beer.
Does he die at the end?
I can't remember.
I can't remember either.
So there are 2 of him.
You know that.
He's too pretty, don't I?
There's Luke Treadaway and Harry tread it away.
So they're both actors, and so there's a backup, if anything
happens to one of them.
Identical twins.
I think this is...
More possibilities than that, Nathan.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Look at him.
So Chris has started to suspect Raffi.
Because in a previous episode, Raffi went off to meet with her son
who is the guy from, is he in Love Victor?
I think he's in love, Victor.
Um, And then comes back and so he thinks she's been compromised
but obviously it's um, Agnes.
Was there a sequence where Rafi goes to see her son.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what he was referring to. like that either.
That just felt pointlessly complicated and a bit horrid too.
Yeah, I think it was giving her a little bit of backstory beyond
Starfleet.
But my issue was like a lot of it hit in a couple of episodes, like
a lot of the nastier stuff hit in a couple of episodes, and it
just felt very anti-trek.
And it's weird because when they go off at the end of the season
in the ship, I'm just like, yes, we're off on an adventure now
we're going, you know.
They had to go through tough times to get there.
Oh my word, look how gorgeous that is.
The valley. wonderful, isn't it?
Oh, this is really silly.
This is the same with Riker and Picard.
Oh, no, no, wait. when they're sitting on the jetty, isn't it?
It's beautiful, that scene.
It is so beautiful.
I love the thing about how they all have baggage.
There's been nothing since nothing but drama since we left Earth's
orbit and they all have baggage and that's because they're in a
different type of TV show.
The reason that the, um, the next generation characters were only
lightly sketched and basically didn't have much of a personality
beyond the actor's performance and what they were good at doing is
because that was Star Trek.
And these guys have now got a complicated backstory in baggage too
because of Thad's death.
And I just can't believe.
I can't believe how relaxed and light these scenes are.
Because they were just so like professional of each other.
Oh my God.
The camera is literally hovering over water right now as they're
going to sit by the lake. beautiful.
And I will say this again and again.
I think this is the prettiest and the most visually memorable Star
Trek series.
Yeah, it's amazing.
I did say Prodigy probably was even more, like, visually creative
than this.
Yeah, yeah.
But as a live action trek, this is like top dollar in how it
looks.
But look, he has his arm around him.
You just couldn't use it.
Imagine it.
And and also too, I think things are reversed a bit because of
Picard's age and because he's a bit frail.
I actually think that, and you know, like Frakes is big and kind
of physically imposing.
Like, there's a real gentleness here, but you have this feeling
that, you know, you end up eventually you end up parenting your
parents when they get old, right?
And I think that that's happening here.
You know, for all of the stuff about how pig, that smile, Jesus
Christ, both of them.
Oh.
Because I mean, I think Freaks is a competent actor. whilst not
being a spectacular one.
But he has a good deal of charm.
I think he has some charisma I think.
I mean, I'll say this now. my favourite, but the next gen, the
chemistry between the cast.
That's that's peak.
Star Trek chemistry, you know?
They love working together and it just beams off of, you know
every scene that they do.
And especially here, it's like, my God, we got one more crack at
the whip.
Let's go So here's another scene with Kestra and Soji.
And I think this is beautiful as well.
And, you know, they express how much they like one another.
And then Kestra, in a very uncomplicated way.
Because she's been through grief, because she had a terrible thing
you know, with her brother dying, and it, And just her saying you
2 could have each other.
You could trust Picard, and he could trust you, and you could
support one another.
Yeah, I don't have Picard, but you could if you wanted to.
It's so good.
It's so warm. have a child character saying that.
Yeah, so mature.
Well, because she's been through grief and she knows that getting
support from, you know, having people you love who support you
through it is the only way through.
It's beautiful.
That actress as well. is right in her face.
Look at this shot.
They both kiss him.
That is the most beautiful shot of the episode.
That's the one I mentioned before.
It's on the website.
I screen captured for the for the website.
It's stunning.
And they're doing that thing.
They did an exchange, right?
Stand over there so you can beam out, right?
And the...
Oh, they're coming.
Oh, yeah. have to pretend it works.
Well, I mean, I like that as well.
You know, it doesn't work unless you make it work.
Ah, this gives you the feels, doesn't it?
It really does.
Look at the family.
Like if we never saw Riker and Troy again, this would be a perfect
ending.
I think we shouldn't.
I don't I don't think we should...
We do, but I don't think we see this.
I don't want to see this again.
I think, you know, you just wanted to be happy here.
Yeah, yeah.
And this is a moment of Nepenthe, you know, that shot, that was
our favourite shot.
I'm telling you now, all right, I'm going to make a prediction for
series 3 of Star Trek Picard.
They're absolutely going to bring the whole next gen group by the
end of series for it.
I'm telling you.
I'd love to see the bar back. no way they won't do that.
That was extraordinarily good.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think I think a rewatch of Picard is in order and maybe some
kind of reevaluation, I think.
Even if it's not doing the sort of thing. that you want Star Trek
to do.
What I want Star Trek to do, I think, is things it hasn't done
before.
And I think that this feels that.
I, you know, the reason why I lure DS9 so much is because we do
hang out with those characters a lot in their home because it
definitely feels like they're at the station.
So this is absolutely what I want Star Trek to do more.
Yeah, yeah.
But I, you know, I've said it a few times throughout this
episode.
What this really highlights is what Nextchange wasn't doing, but
just the potential that these characters had.
Yeah.
Yeah, and, you know, how they've maybe matured as actors or
something because I think Deanna is great in that.
I think Riker is great.
And part of it is that they're allowed to bring themselves to the
role more and they're in an identifiable place.
They're not in a studio on a studio sound stage surrounded by
flashing lights.
They're in a home.
They're outside at a pizza oven.
If anyone was cynical about like this series being like a rehash
of the next generation, which I kind of thought it was going to be
when I 1st went in, and it definitely isn't that.
No.
Well, this episode proves that actually maybe that's not such a
bad idea.
Yeah, although I think, I think there's a lot of Star Trek the
Next Generation available for you to watch, if you want it, and
what we don't need, I think, is more of it.
But what we get here, where we get to see a mature relationship
between them and a loving relationship.
Rehash is the wrong word, isn't it?
like reinvention really.
Yeah.
I think it's beautiful and it is a little oasis in that series and
it's deliberately intended to be that. and it is for both of them
both Picard and Soji.
Get a break from the terrible things that have been happening and
then go off with renewed purpose.
And I think it's perfect.
I remember watching through this season and I, you know, I said to
you, when I got halfway through, I was like, I don't know, this is
for me.
And then this episode hit and I was just like, oh, yes. you know I
breathed a sigh of relief.
It's it's fantastic.
And frankly, I'm really pleased we got it as the 1st one.
All right, it's time for us to choose our next episode.
So Joe is on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser.
Joe. You haven't told me what you're going to pick from.
I'm going to be utterly predictable.
And I picked the animated series, the much neglected animated
series.
No.
We'll get to that when we get.
Besisely, she's always nice to have one in the bank that we
haven't done yet, you know?
So, you know, 70 episodes in.
We're like, ooh, and new shows talk about.
No, no, no, I'm ducking back into 90s trek. as before I do.
We just did an next generation.
So I've only selected DS9 and Voyager.
I just I just love talking about those shows.
So why don't you tell me when you're ready?
Okay, I'm ready.
I want you to press a button.
Okay, here we go.
Bye-bye, bum.
Okay, so this is Deep Space 9, season two, episode 25, Tribunal.
It's an O'Brien episode.
We can't possibly watch that one though, because that's the one
where he gets his uniform torn off and you see his big hairy
moves.
Okay, let's not do that.
No, no, no, no.
After seeing hot reels.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Oh, oh, okay.
This is a beautiful episode.
It's DS9 again.
It's season three, episode 22 Explorers.
And it's the one where Cisco builds the Bajoran lightship and him
and Jake go off.
And it has a fabulous B plot as well about Julian Bashir and the
person that he lost out to at school visiting the station.
Yeah. and it's the 1st litre episode as well.
Oh, okay.
All right.
Yep.
I'm here for it.
Well, I may just push it one more time.
Oh, you know that we have to go with it if you push it one more
time.
There's no choosing the 2nd last one we rolled.
We're bad enough, I think, without introducing those rules.
What do you think?
Go on.
Go on, go on.
Push it.
Okay, I'll push it.
Oh my word.
Okay.
It's another DS 9 episode.
Ready?
I'm going to hold it out.
Are you sure you selected Voyager?
I did.
Okay.
All right.
It's season six. episode 19.
In the pale moonlight.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, we have to do that.
That's good.
Excellent.
That's actually, that's a good one to do.
And do you know why?
Because we did the House of Quark, and we did...
Baseball.
And they were both light, and this is, this is not light.
Oh, excellent.
I'm looking forward to seeing that I have seen it.
I do know which one we're talking about.
I mean, I think I think this is widely considered to be one of the
best.
One of the top 3 DS9 episodes.
Yeah, yeah.
And I wouldn't necessarily say that about take me out to the
holosuite and House of War.
No, they're very good.
So top three, in the Power Moonlight, better being better bang and
in the cards, right?
That is a unique list to you.
Yes.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
You can find us online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where
you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 30th of January 2022 and released
on the 11th of February.
We'll see you next time for Deep Space 9 in the pale moonlight.