Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, I'm excited this week, because we're back aboard the Starship
Discovery, and we haven't been here for quite some time, and it is
yet another season finale.
So we've done the season finale for series three, I think, and now
we're here for the season finale of series two.
So it's series two, episodes 13 and 14, such sweet sorrow and such
sweet sorrow, part two, and they're broadcast about 6 years ago.
So in simpler times, I think.
I said last week that this made me quite angry at the time.
Well, this time it made me quite angry, so that's appropriate.
I have to say that I'm much more chill about it now because I
think what annoyed me was that I could see where it was going and
it's very clear and they make it very clear because it's the
essential job not only of this two-parter, but perhaps even of
this season to put them in the future so that they're out of
continuity's way.
And, um, it's a bit of a buying they've made for themselves. isn't
it?
That they've got to catapult themselves 900 years into the future
just to stop, you know, rewriting the Star Trek timeline.
Yeah, and I think that's a shame because I think that Star Trek
could do with some rewriting of the timeline.
And sometimes I think that one of the things that I liked about
series one was it's kind of weird, fractious relationship with
continuity.
I enjoyed that, but a lot of people didn't.
And so that was kind of why I interpreted series 2 as an apology
tour in many ways.
I agree with you.
Now I've watched this recently.
I agree with you.
I now suddenly have some affection for the fractuous relationships
of season one and I think actually they're doing something a bit
more interesting.
At the time, I didn't like it because that wasn't the Star Trek I
was used to.
It was like a bit like a cold water thrown in my face.
What the hell is this?
We haven't got a crew at the end of episode one.
Nobody's getting on.
Michael Burnham's being treated horribly.
The captain is a murderer.
Like the security chief.
You know, that dreadful woman who got eaten by the Tardigrade.
She's vile.
What is going on?
Well, I'll take all of it, all right, over the sweet sorrow I
suffered through this 1st episode.
The ooey, gooey, saccharined, lovey doveyness of everybody staring
at each other longingly while strings play and everybody's self
sacrificing themselves and we're telling each other every 2
minutes, what a lovely crew and family and how much we all love
each other.
Oh boy, oh boy, please give me some of that cynicism from season
one back.
This is an apology tour.
They are going to some efforts to rectify what I think they think
is mistakes in the 1st series and stressing to an extreme level
how much these characters love each other.
And for me, it's too much.
So I think that they have a really hard job to do because what
they've got to do.
So they've decided to go into the future.
And in a sense that might have been good from the get go.
It might have been good to have a new era of Star Trek that's said
in a new era that we haven't met before.
And we know from the 3 seasons of discovery that we get after this
that the show flourishes once it's free of the constraints of the
past and it can be visually much more adventurous and
interesting.
Um, you know, the technology can be more fun, the visuals can be a
little bit more interesting.
Just catching up with all those races that we know, but 900 years
in the future.
Exactly right.
All of that stuff is really fun.
That would have been a really good way of starting it.
I can see why they didn't start it that way.
And getting from there to here is the big problem because they
have to make it clear that they're going voluntarily because it
can't be Voyager.
They don't want it to be a show where they're trying to get back
home.
And so they have to make it clear that it's voluntary and that
it's permanent.
So we need to see everyone making the decision to do that.
But that's so implausible.
That's so impossibly implausible that everyone just goes, yes, we
will leave our friends and family behind forever.
Yeah. and follow my own.
They literally say, do you know, we signed up to this.
We knew this was a possible, what you knew going 900 years into
the future, never seeing your family and friends and everybody
that you've built your life around ever again, it was a
possibility.
Well, why did you sign up then?
That line is that they knew the death was a possibility, I think.
In season three, they do, for a few episodes, show them adjusting
to being cut off everybody, but it's very soon forgotten.
And I just don't buy it. everyone would be like, oh, well, we're
here.
Let's just get on with.
It's very strange.
Yeah, and so that's the problem.
That's the problem, that they have this implausible thing and
they've got to somehow make it work.
And they've got to make it satisfying too in a show where things
have emotional consequences, which is not.
Do they have emotional consequences?
But that's not what Star Trek has hitherto been.
So Star Trek in the 90s is very, very focussed on essentially a
male adolescent audience.
Do you know what I mean?
and is absolutely sent into rounds.
It's around its concerns.
Whereas this is trying to be more adult drama and is trying to, you
know, have people behave in a plausible way.
But they've got this just impossible task.
And so I don't think they've managed to sell it.
But I can see them trying to make it work and particularly in this
episode.
You say adult.
I was getting sort of teen drama vibes.
The sort of shows I watched in the 90s where it was very lovely W
where people did the, so, Buffy without the, without the knowing
eyes of the audience.
That's what I was getting here Well, when I say adult drama, it
was when it show the show started, it was very violent, it was it
used horror tropes, there was swearing.
Fabulous.
Well, not the swear.
People had sex.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I loved all of that.
I did like people being eating Bartard de Bray, so that was
great.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it was kind of nasty, wasn't it, at times?
blood flying in the air.
Fabulous.
Exactly.
And what you talked about about what discovery is like in series
one where everyone is kind of horrible and discoveries are
horrible plays to be.
And, you know, they do some things, I think, in series 2 that are
good.
They bring Anson Mount abroad, which is genius.
Although I did feel a tangible difference from him here to what we
get later in Strange New Worlds.
I don't think they've quite refined the character to the one that
fronts that show.
He was a bit more serious in this as well.
He's so much more relaxed in strange new worlds.
That's right.
Well, Strangely Worlds has just a very different tone.
And I think it's more successful because it comes out of the gate
into a world where they've had experience creating some seasons of
Star Trek at this and they kind of know what they're doing.
They've got time to think they're not kind of making it up as they
go along in quite the same way.
And it has a very clear idea of what it is.
I mean, if you were to give the one sentence pitch of what Star
Trek discovery is.
It's kind of like, well, she's initially a prisoner and then she's
on board a horrible shit, but the captain is the, you know, from
the mirror universe and then someone else comes along and then
they go 950 years in the future and stuff.
It's just like, what even is the concept of this show?
You can't state it, whereas Stranger Worlds is, they're on the
enterprise and they're kind of travelling through space doing Star
Trek thing.
Wonderful.
Yeah, yeah.
Although, the way this show mutates, it is, it is interesting.
Just how much changes from year to year is super interesting.
And I think it's more ambitious, you know, than any of the other
Kurtzman Treks, I think.
But I do think bringing in characters from original Star Trek
bringing in the enterprise, backtracking on the characterisation
choices you made in it, it is a step backwards.
It's not a step forward.
It's playing it safe.
It's being less risky.
It's giving Star Trek fans what Star Trek fans think they want.
And yet, weirdly enough, aside from the, I think there was a push
against the dollop of syrup that was guzzled down at the end of
this season.
I mean, Jesus Christ, we made a joke, you and me, about how in 90s
trek, every time, you know, Captain Jane, where Captain Cisco
Captain Picard says, right, well, we're going into this impossible
situation now.
You know, anyone who wants to just step over that line and you can
stay and no one does.
But we certainly didn't have half an hour of people standing
around all talking about how they're going to self-sacro.
Michael Burnham, does it?
Spock does it and some Mount character does it.
The whole crew does it.
I'm like, all right, you're all going to sacrifice.
You all love each other. fucking get on with it already.
That was my biggest issue with this two-parter, yeah?
Is that after the 1st 10 minutes, fuck all happens in this 1st
episode.
It is just a series of protracted character scenes of people
stressing how much they love each other.
And then you jump into episode 2 and you have 5 minutes of manic
preparations before the action starts, which absolutely could have
happened in this episode and we could have ended this episode on
all of those ships appearing and the action about to start.
It's just baffling the way this is paced.
I actually think it's not quite as bad as you say.
I think that you are emphasising the bits that you don't like very
much and saying they take longer than they do.
Literally, nothing happens in the last half of this episode.
And then it's go, go, go.
I mean, that is the 2nd last episode and last episode thing.
You know, the 1st episode builds up to the climax and then there's
a thing.
I think that this does spend too much time on some of that stuff
but I think some of that stuff is well done.
And I can see what they have to do is wrap up this version of the
show completely to do something new.
I mean, I don't think that you can complain that what we leave
behind has a lot of people standing around talking to each other
about their feelings as well.
This is obviously not the culmination of 7 years of a show, but
this is a show having to wrap itself up and wrap up all of its
dangling blot lines and then head off and do something else.
And you said, what, you leave behind doing that as well?
Well, yeah, we was wrapping off all of it, dangling.
Well, there's a war and battle scene forces.
Oh, no, it just takes a long time to get there, that's all.
So, like, I don't think this is as bad as I feared it was because
my memory of it was a lot of people crying at each other for an
hour on end, and I don't think it is quite bad.
It certainly did seem like that at the time.
Yeah, I found myself relieved that there was less of that than I
expected.
I mean, I found myself relieved when the action started in the 2nd
episode because then I was like, okay, good. something's happening
at last So one more thing.
This is directed by Olatunde Ossansanmi, who is the person who has
directed more discovery than anyone else.
He did 14 episodes of Discovery, including the finale, and he has
an executive producers role, I think, and he directed Section 31
and he did some really pivotal episodes as well.
So he is very much responsible, I think, for the way that this
show is directed.
And I...
Why did you bring that up?
You know I've got something to say.
I'm going to be... all episode and I think he does a smashing job
of this.
I think he is really good.
I think I think he's too scared to keep the camera still.
Like, it never, ever stops moving in this episode.
And there are scenes where people are just sitting around talking
right, there could just be nice 2 shots and it's constantly moving
around.
I'll show you as we go through.
I was just constantly distracted. about who the fuck is talking?
The camera's moving across.
No, it's going, it's just dizzying at times.
And I'm like, Jesus Christ, the actors don't have a hope in these
scenes because the camera's not settling on them for any period of
time.
It's so distracting.
I don't think that's true.
I think that it's much less...
Most of the weird.
Yeah, okay.
All right, one moment where the camera is still...
This is the really kind of virtuoso whirling the camera around
stuff leads us from one scene to another.
That's where most of that stuff happens.
And the camera is less static now in TV these days than it was in
the 90s and we constantly complain about how staid the direction
is in 90s track.
I think there's a happy medium between the 2 though, and it ain't
this.
Not when I was just, one, I was constantly aware that they were
trying to make me feel things in this episode.
And that's a problem because then I wasn't feeling it.
I was just totally aware of the artifice of it.
Two, I was constantly aware of the movement of the camera, and I
was watching that more than I was enjoying the scene, and that was
a problem.
There's just they just try so hard.
And I know that's a ridiculous thing to complain about.
They're trying really hard, but sometimes you can try too hard and
it's a distraction.
I'm just...
The action was great.
The action was brilliant, especially in the 2nd episode and I
thought that's absolutely cinematic at times.
It's beautiful, the action.
And the special effects and all are absolutely gorgeous.
But God, just slow it down.
Well, no.
Pace up the action and slow down the camera.
All right.
Well, let's see what happens because I think you'll find that
there are more scenes of just people talking without the camera
getting in the way and it's fine.
No, no, no.
Others are getting away.
It just doesn't stop moving.
It's not.
It's annoying.
Okay, well let's watch this thing.
Okay.
I'm gonna count this in.
Five, four, three, two, one. and we're off.
Now, I had to do some research.
This is the introduction of Po, and that is in the 1st short
trek.
So there's a 10 minute scene with just her and Tilly meeting and
becoming friends.
And when she gets mentioned here, I think Tilly has a great fun
moment.
This is from last week.
Oh, she's great.
Yeah, she's really good.
This is from last week.
We're on Borath, which...
So that's Dread cool, Klingons.
That guy is played by the guy who played Takuvma.
And so this is last week.
Last week we had Pike.
He took the time crystal, but the cost of the time crystal was not
only finding out his future, but being unable to change it.
And so there he sees the future that awaits him.
Where did these time crystals come from?
There are time crystals in original trek, I think.
It is not an invention of discovery.
It is part of the law.
I mean, it's worth remembering, right?
We did watch an original series episode where they just pop back
in time as a scientific exploration.
Do you remember?
It's crazy.
It is crazy.
Yeah, assignment Earth, you know?
So the other thing is too, that on board discovery, there is data
from a sphere, which they encounter early on in the season, and
it's a big life form that gets them and downloads, it's all of
these 100s of 1000s of years of data into the computer, and that's
how we get Zora in series three.
Oh, okay.
So okay.
And we'll control them.
This AI computer controlling section 31.
So it's AI's threat assessment system.
It was created by Section 31 to do threat assessment.
It is an AI, but it turns on section 31 and wipes out everyone in
the bass and then just pretends that its business as usual and
sends holograms of section 31 people off to talk to people, but
they're all fake.
It's like, oh, that's you.
They need a good marketer after this, don't they?
They really do.
Bit embarrassing.
We all did.
So, so there's like.
Is this why they went underground in the future, you know, we
don't see much of them in the 90s. a bit embarrassed by all
those.
So this is here to sell what I think is the weirdest decision in
the in the show, which is to stop us.
Oh, look, look at this handsome guy.
Are you talking about...
Okay, sorry.
Are you talking about the bit where her parents show up?
Yeah, halfway through the episode for an emotional scene.
Simply because it's the final episode, I was a bit baffled about
that as well.
That's right I love Tilly grabbing her stuff.
Like all of this abandoning the thing is moments for just little
character stuff.
So that's the dagger that his sister gave him.
We've seen her.
I think we've seen her before in the season, but there's a whole
short track around her.
All of that sort of stuff.
Look at this beautiful shot.
Discovery's bigger than enterprise.
I am.
Oh, no, I said this during the chat, but I'm going to repeat it
now.
Like, yes, you said it was covered in a lion that they can't just
delete this sphere data, right?
So they have to find some extreme way to get rid of it.
But taking it 900 years into the future.
Just seems like such an extreme solution.
So the reason is, of course, that they're using the suit, a
replica of the suit that Burnham's mother used.
And so she jumped 950 years into the future to discover that
control and and the sphere data had merged and had wiped out all
of life.
And we get to see that in a flash forward.
So we know that that's what at stake.
That's what's at stake and she keeps coming back from 950 years in
the future in the suit to try and intervene to stop it from
happening.
And so that's why that's the time.
And to have protracted emotional scenes with her daughter.
That's a terrible episode.
Is she gone now then?
she gone?
can't remember.
She does turn up in series 3 and she has become one of the Romulan
sincerity nuns who we are big fans of here on Untitled Star Trek
Project.
Oh, Nathan, look at it.
Pretty, pretty sport.
Oh, he looks great.
Yes.
Oh, I mean, it's full of pretty people.
I can't complain on that front.
Oh, here's another one.
Colbert, very pretty.
And so this is another plot that has to get resolved because of
course they make the mistake of killing him at the end of series
one and I think it is a mistake.
It's a shocking character moment, but it's sort of awful.
And they really make us pay for it.
Like, they don't just resurrect you.
Which game of frozen at this point?
I don't know.
This is not...
Are they going for those sort of shock moments like Game of
Thrones did?
you know, where everyone talked about, my God, did you see the
death of Cola?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This goes out in April 2019. so I'm not quite sure.
Look, there's some good camera work there moving us into her
wherever she is.
Yeah.
So...
So she's staring at the time crystal.
So Boris is a Klingon monastery, isn't it, in Deep Space and Iron
and a 90s track?
If you say so, I don't really pay attention.
It might be where Kayla sounds up.
You know, it may be where Kayla ends up.
I don't think they've invented it for this.
I wish Pike's hair was as dramatic as usual. as big as it is flat
these days, isn't it?
So once kind of interesting about this, and they do follow it up
what they do, they do a really good job of this in Strange Shoe
World.
So he has just learned what his future is at this and more than
that, he's accepted it.
He chose to accept this future in order to get hold of the time
crystal in order to save this.
And there's stuff around faith and kind of predestination here
because, of course, what ends up happening is everything that
they've already experienced is caused by someone time travelling
from the future.
And so, uh, they, so this is her touching the crystal.
She's seeing a vision of the future where everyone gets killed.
We don't see it actually... or control storms in and murders
everyone.
I got so excited during this bit, didn't I?
Oh, my God.
The entire crew's been murdered.
Blake 7 star.
We don't see it yet.
We don't see the full thing.
We just see the flash forward.
She just gets the flash forward and then later on we'll see all of
it.
But there has been a scene of everything being destroyed by
control and the sphere data merging.
So the Big Bad this year is AI.
Yeah, and funnily enough, next season of Picard, the Big Bad is AI
as well, and you'll remember the Jart Vash, the Romulan doomsday
cult, oh, we have to mention this.
This is us on board Enterprise for the 1st time.
So we've seen a bowl.
But this is our seeing Enterprise for the 1st time.
And it is...
We're going to the bridge for the 1st time.
Yeah, but the corridors with the red, like that turbo lift with
the with the thing that you turn and the, like, it's absolutely
doing.
One thing that this does is we are doing Star Trek, but we are
reimagining it.
Do you know what I mean?
We're not doing what Deep Space 9 and Next Generation did and just
saying that it always looked like this.
This is the 60s bridge and that's what it looked like.
This is the 60s bridge.
But look how stunningly beautiful it is.
It's still got all the colours.
It's a beautiful show.
Wild Away Falls.
It also feels a little bit like passing the baton as well. i.e
we're off to the future with our advanced spaceship and we're
staying with the enterprise in the past.
And at that point, we didn't have strange new worlds.
People were clamouring for it because they really enjoyed Anson
Mount and Rebecca remained. reading up about that.
Apparently, it was quite a number of requests.
Yeah, people just said these.
They knew they had something.
Yeah, yeah.
But originally, of course, what happens is this leads into, this
is said a few years before Star Trek.
And so it is, you know, we end up following the enterprise
discovery disappears from canon, and then we end up following
enterprise.
Oh, here is Philippa.
Boy, thank God.
Giorgio, the best character in all of Discovery. walks on the
Enterprise Bridge and goes, orange, really.
She has the best lines throughout this entire thing.
There's one bit where she cuts down Michael Burnham.
Oh, in the corridor saying, oh, this bloody self-sacrifice.
Yeah, you're very impressive, don't you?
Now she's imagining now she's imagining killing Leland, which of
course she'll get to do.
And obviously, you know, you've got to get her to be kicking him
in the head and stuff.
Fuck, look at that shit.
So weird though.
It's like having your cake and eating it, right?
They want to do all this twee earnestness.
But they're also willing to comment on it as well.
So they know they're doing it.
They know tend to.
That's right.
I think part of the problem is part of the problem here is that
she's more fun than the people. and there's a moment there's a
moment where Anson Mount gets his own back because he doesn't
know.
No one knows that Georgia is from the Mirror Universe.
And so as they part, because of course, Shorjo goes with them into
the future, as her and Anson Mount part, she goes, oh, by the way
I'm from the Terrad Empire, and I'm super evil, and Anson Mount
just winks at her, she disappears, which that's him being fun.
So, like, I said to you, didn't I, what, um, what is the big
difference here between the discovery crew and the strange new
world's crew?
And I thought it was like the sort of the quirkiness and how funny
the crew are and how much more relaxed they are in Strange New
World.
There are glimmers of it here.
There's a great moment where Jet Lano says, you know, let's move
our asses and then she realises what she says and goes, oh, sorry.
And there's a bit where Stamitz goes.
I still hate you, you know.
And she goes, great.
I hate you too.
And just a bit with chilli, and there are touches.
It's just like it's almost like it just they haven't relaxed
enough to let all that stuff flourish.
But I don't think that that's what they want to do.
Like, I think that they want this to be more serious. it's a fair
approach.
Well, but it's it's an approach that you can take and it, you know
what ends up.
Yeah, I know.
Rocks.
Look at all the rocks all over the floor. this, yeah, that's
right.
So it turns out in the past they packed in more rocks than any
other time.
Well, no, they've got more budget for rocks in Gertz for Trek.
Look at the rocks there. motion rocks.
Oh my goodness.
Oh, man, oh, man.
It's like a whole fucking quarry.
Notice that we haven't had opening credits yet.
We are, how far in, are we?
We're 11 minutes in and we haven't had the opening.
This episode follows the role of telling you what it's about in
the pre-title sequence.
Well, kind of.
So you've got Leland who, forgive me, is just impossibly hard.
Matt is murdering everybody on the Discovery Crew.
I love everyone.
He is hot.
That's it.
No, tears.
He's just killed him, Ma.
Oh, he was killed O. See, we like...
Oh, it just faces him though.
She doesn't let him break, break, break.
Sorry.
I think I was going to end up just screaming the word die during
this episode, but I love this bit.
So, so, so is he, hang on.
He's an AI.
Replicant?
What is he?
full of nanobots.
So he is Leland.
So the AI has killed all of the people.
So there's a ship, during the season, and again, I didn't rewatch
the whole season and I can't remember everything, I've definitely
watched this finale a couple of times, but I haven't watched the
rest of the season a couple of times.
Most of the episodes I've only ever seen once.
But I do remember that they had a ship and it was Philippa Ash and
Leland on the ship and that was the section 31 ship, but everyone
is killed on the section 31 ship.
And Leland is full of nanobots, which we see pouring out of him
and stuff at the end.
And we've seen...
How was she seeing that vision?
It's the time crystal, remember?
She touches the crystal.
And it's warning her what will happen, just like...
Wow, thank God it did that.
Otherwise, they may have made the mistake.
But remember the time crystal is there because it has to be there
because it's the time crystal, that means that they, because this
is a very moffety episode where we later just go back through the
season and do all of the things that needed to happen in order to
make the episodes occur.
And so all of this depends on the successful outcome of this.
And that's one thing that she, that was part of what they were
talking about before her and Pike in that scene.
Thank God for the time, Crystal.
She says, this is why we have it.
The Time Crystal is telling her what happens if we don't leave.
If we don't leave, we have to go to the future.
So the time crystal's told her, and there you go.
Opening credits.
It absolutely amazing how rule. are we?
13 years. 13 minutes.
But there's only half an hour to go.
So yeah, and you were complaining about an hour of benching and
stuff.
There was no, there was no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
no, no, no, no, no, the 1st 10, 15 minutes were good, and then it
was half an hour of love.
It's not even half an hour.
It all... 33 minutes.
That is over half an hour. you very much.
It's not all going to be us talking about how much we love each
other.
But it does obey the rule because it goes into the opening credits
on Michael saying we have to go to the future.
And so from this point, we know that that's what's happening.
At this point in the episode, I'm pretty annoyed because I really
liked what we had before and I didn't want them to throw it away.
And I thought it was caving to very boring Star Trek fans.
But now I'm happy about it because it turned out okay.
Mark Adam says, I will go to the future and I will do this.
So I'll sacrifice myself.
Yeah?
No there's a reason for it.
No, no, no, but she says she'll do it on her own.
And then they're all saying that.
The reason that it has to be on her own.
The reason it has to be her is that the ship is as usual keyed
into her mother's DNA, and so she's the only one who can fly it
because she has half of her mother's DNA.
And of course, she's the main character of the show, and that's
obviously how it's going to work.
But there's an in episode reason for it.
It's not just that she's more selfless than everyone.
I just don't want to be this person.
Yeah, but DNA controlled suits.
It's time crystals, AI computer's gone evil.
Oh, no, but it's all just a bit dumb.
It's all Star Trek.
Look at this beautiful shot.
So this is on the Enterprise.
This is their their room. their kind of ready room.
Only much nicer than it was in the 60s.
Yeah, so this is explaining why... shot, shot, shot, shot, shot.
But we're getting reactions.
We're getting their faces.
We're seeing them reacting.
He's speaking, she's speaking.
We've got the camera on the people who are speaking.
It's moving slightly.
It's sort of tilting weirdly, the whole thing. because that's what
the camera does now.
Just keep it still.
It's not, but like, it's not whirling around. anything.
This is fairly standard.
I've been watching some modern day TV.
Shock horror.
I know.
I've been watching Star Wars shows.
The camera ain't doing this, you know, like it's on our bloody
pendulum.
Yeah, I think that you're, I mean, this is very, very staid the
direction of this.
This is very standard.
Camera's moving very gently.
It's fine.
I don't I don't see the problem.
Just keep it still.
But it's not preventing you from hearing the dialogue or seeing
the reaction.
To the left.
To the right.
To the left.
Stranger worlds does this as well, you know.
Straight she whirls, the camera moves like that.
I don't notice it.
Let's do a Strange New World episode soon, Paul.
I do, I mean, I like the light source is coming in, sort of
something nice.
That's, I mean, that is a great thing and it's something that I
think happens for the 1st time really in generations.
Remember the shock of seeing 10 forward with actual orange, like
yellow light pouring in through the windows.
It was so good.
It made it seem so much more real.
Oh, so here's the idea.
She wants to blow up a nova and then it will kill everyone, says
Saru, and she says, yep, yep.
Michael, we're not doing that.
That's wonderful.
That was one of the few times I laughed out loud.
You know, it's got to kill all people.
Yeah, a 100 light years.
Yeah, and...
I tell you what.
Who else is really great is Katrina.
So, is that the character's name?
I don't even know who that is.
Katrina Cornwell, Admiral Cornwell The woman who was...
She had the relationship with thing with...
You're going to fight me on this, but the Enterprise is a much
nicer spaceship than Discovery, you know.
Oh, but the thing I like about Discovery...
I think it looks gorgeous. dark, and I like the burnished metal
like I like that instead of being gray, it's kind of brass and
like that's a very different look.
I think this is a beautiful, beautiful. nostalgia.
Look, she's got that fabulous thing that you peer into at the
front there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It looks...
I mean, it, I, you know, obviously the Strange New World said.
This is not what we go with, and in the 1st episode of Strange New
Worlds.
We hear that Enterprise has been in SpaceDock being redesigned to
look a bit less like this.
Um, and it, um, But I just think, you know, this looks great.
The new one looks great, but obviously the sets are bigger and
more complicated, but they're still obviously trying to, and less
blue, I think, a bit more white, but they're still trying to evoke
the old show.
I like all that.
It sounds like a backhanded compliment.
I do like all the funky aliens they've got as well, big parts in
this.
Like they literally make up people or put them in crazy minds
background.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this is really great too, because it turns out that we're on
the planet Zahir, which has dilithium supplies, and it turns out
the Tilly knows the queen of Zahir from that short trek.
And so she finds herself in this position where she can sort of
name drop.
I know the, I know the queen of this planet and can get her on
board and she is really good.
Like, I can't remember what that episode is called.
It's called the runaway or something like that and it is very
cute.
And it is a little bit strange.
Like it's kind of hard to know because it's our 1st short trek and
we don't quite know what's happening here.
Why do they not give any close-ups to that hot Asian guy?
He's always in the background.
So he's the, so he is hot, isn't he?
That's very cute.
That's Reese.
And he's he's not communication, so I'm not quite sure what he
is.
He's something, but he's...
Give him up, bloody close up, if you're giving F1 a look.
Yeah, Patrick Quakshun as Reese.
Oh, this.
So here we have a conversation where for the 1st time maybe in
Star Trek.
Um, I don't know.
We talked about this before, but how important it is to be able to
see yourself in the future.
And these 2 are so great.
And they've been estranged.
Do you remember they've just been estranged in the episode from
season 2 that we saw before they, you know, you couldn't find
anything.
Is that because he was back from the dance...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we make it cost something.
We make it laugh.
Just so sort of things that we all go through.
That's right That's right.
And here they're talking about.
I mean, they play him.
Yeah, yeah.
And they have very natural chemistry, but it's so much better in
series 3 when all of this is possible.
And they're just having a relationship in a difficult time.
It's not about zombies or whatever this is.
It's just about 2 people estranged from their home trying to find
their way.
But look at this.
They're talking about their plans for the future and they're
talking about plans for the future that don't involve each other
and they're talking about forward motion, the importance of
forward motion.
And what they mean by that is that our relationship is now over.
We're planning to go ahead.
We're not looking back its forward motion.
But of course, it's talking about the show as well at this point.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that their plans for the future are different from what they
expect.
And of course, this episode, this 2 parter ends with us not
knowing if, um, if Stammets is going to survive as well.
As a, like, you know, the 1st in a line of emotional scenes that
are coming up, this one works because...
It's been awkward.
It's a bit tentative and it's a bit more interesting.
And the other one I loved was in the 2nd episode where the 1st
goodbye between Spock and Burnham, which was without dialogue, just
a couple of looks.
They touch each other's hands, very restrained. loved all of
that.
I liked her saying goodbye to Ash as well.
I thought that was really good because again, they had been
estranged.
Look at that shot.
That thing where the camera pulls back and we actually go through
the transport beam and it's a three-dimensional object.
I think is a beautiful shot.
Oh my god.
Somebody, somebody fun on the ship.
And she's wonderful, isn't she?
She's so great.
What about Michelle Leo's line when she finally gets hold of the
ice cream?
Oh, she go, what was it?
This disgusting... or something.
So good.
They're really fun, aren't they?
I cannot make a complaint about any line.
Michelle, yo has in there, though.
She could take a shit line and she would spin it into gold.
She's magic. absolutely magic.
Well done.
So, of course, her name is Mahani Ika Harley Carpo, and he gets it
right the 1st time and impresses her, and now we have her going to
help with the time crystal.
Oh, we have to charge it or something, don't we?
Oh, and his jet, Reno, who's just not in the show enough.
No, why is that?
There was a reason for that.
Well, no, no, no.
I swear that she could only do a certain amount.
I've read an interview with her that she could only do a certain
amount.
Which is a shame because she has got buckets of personality.
Oh, she's wonderful, isn't she?
She's really great.
And I think her and stammets are really good together too, and
they really lean into that.
So when we go to the future, as you said before on the chat
Discovery disappears from its own show for about 5 minutes or
maybe even a bit more at the end to leave the enterprise to kind
of take on the, you know, to pass the bat on to the enterprise, who
we're going to follow, you know, way back in 1966 and so on.
And it turns out it's...
Oh, dude.
I just, as an episode of Discovery, I thought leaving that
ambiguous.
Where the hell would they go?
I think it's really strong.
I think it's a great thing.
Don't we open 3 with...
It's just burns, Michael.
Yeah.
But then episode 2 very, very strongly leans into Stammets, Kulba
and Jet Reno. all together in the aftermath of that accident and
it's really, really great.
The 3 of them are really good together.
It's like, they want to piss off the Star Trek fans.
Where the hell's discovery gone?
No, and you're not even going to see it in the face.
It's really good.
I think it's properly good.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, okay, so this is a fairly standard scene.
Again, the cameras are pretty much just hitting people's faces
despite your constant complaining.
The whole thing.
Back and forth is not about anyone's emotions at all.
It's entirely about business.
Tell the right.
This incredibly gentle and subtle camera moves. keep it still.
No, that's so boring.
It's not the 90s.
Oh no, here we go.
But I won't be able to come back.
Are you trying to suggest to me?
Are you trying to suggest to me, you know, we could have had gone
on and had a series with all of Discovery Crew minus Michael
Burnham?
No, but that would be no good. talking.
But it's an equal.
She's beautiful.
She's the most beautiful person ever in a Star Trek episode.
Now watch the camera here as we land on the ship and we go over
that little thing and now we're the right way up looking.
Oh, look at the future, people.
Yeah, they're people.
They're people mad at him.
I wasn't surprised.
It was.
They were rotor.
She did it.
They were.
No, there were people walking along.
That wasn't a CGI person.
Good grief.
That person looks artificial then.
Yeah, it didn't, it wasn't all that great.
But it looked pretty good.
I mean, it was a good special effect shot.
Hello.
Let's go back and watch Enterprise.
So again, she wasn't volunteering to go and never come back and it
was only the discovery in that final that scene that we just had
where everyone was talking around, these very gentle camera
movements here on the bridge scene as well.
Oh, still moving.
To the left.
To the right.
And so now we know, of course, that she won't be able to come
back.
And the trust the mystery.
I love that.
Trust the mystery is so good.
Watch them all looking at her longingly as she agrees to sacrifice
herself.
My god, what a woman.
They're all thinking.
Yeah, yeah.
And again, like, I just kind of think everyone just get on board
the Enterprise, Michael will be fine in the future.
It's nice, you know.
Where's Shaw Show?
She should be there going, oh, God.
I said, you just had Jet Reno call Ash Love Bug.
Sorry, last bug.
We don't have a spore drive right now.
So that's pretty good.
Oh, control's 10 minutes away.
You know what, right?
I know I was being facetious when I suggested a Michaelless
discovery, but we could have had Jojo in charge and that would
have been much better, much more fun.
But yeah, yeah, yeah. is pretty great.
And we could...
Well, you very nearly had a series where she was in charge and we
didn't get it, sadly.
Is that not happening at all?
No, no, no.
She's too big for our stupid show.
I mean, I haven't seen the weakest section 31 thing.
Yeah.
All I know is no matter how bad the Ryan might be.
Shell be amazing.
Yeah.
Well, part of the problem is that she doesn't get to react against
all the good people in it because everyone's kind of evil and so
we do lose that.
That's a little bit of a shame.
You're not in the pack of evil here, I'm afraid.
That's right.
The reason why she stands out so much here is because she really
does contrast to everybody else.
Now can I say that we're 28 minutes in and we're yet to really
have much of a conversation about our feelings about things?
Oh, you're right.
Yeah, yeah.
See, there's much less... got 20 minutes to go, though.
That's 20 minutes to come.
We're already talking about how Tilly feels.
So, you know, Poe is talking with Tilly about how she feels.
I mean, about my believing.
We just had the same between...
I'm talking about self-sacrifice.
No, no, we have the scene between stamach and culba.
The scene between Samus and Culver is basically the only one.
Yeah, that's at least 10 minutes.
That wasn't 10 minutes.
It was like three.
Okay.
I've really...
Maybe when it comes, it's so...
There is a vomit of it.
It is a big thing, but it's not there's not an hour of it or half
an hour of it.
There's a bit less.
Maybe it just feels like an hour.
I think that that might be what's happening.
There is one scene that I think is beautifully directed and very
well judged where they are all talking about their feelings that I
really like, and I'll point it out when it comes.
I think it's really good.
And it does a good job of doing what it has to do, which is to
make us all right with them leaving.
One of the things that I think is a shame.
And I don't know whether they were deliberately avoiding this
because no one talks about what the future's going to be like and
no one is excited about seeing what the future might be.
And if they've all signed up to be explorers and they have the
chance to go 950 years into the future, wouldn't you be excited?
Like, wouldn't you think I really am hanging out to see what
that's going to be like?
Um, and that never is anyone's motivation in this episode, which
is odd, I think.
I mean, I would be excited, but it would be counterbalanced by the
fact that I would never see anybody.
I love ever again.
Yeah, well, there's new people love. book is in the future. for
instance, for example.
I'll go off to the future.
I'll never talk to you again I mean, this would make me sad.
I'll you can send me a red...
Oh, wait.
I've just remembered.
You're going to live forever.
You'll still be there.
Yeah, I'll still be there.
Yeah.
That's all right.
Look at that shot.
I'll find out who you've replaced me with. over the last 900
years.
That's right All those Star Trek episodes.
Okay.
So here we go.
And this scene, I think is pretty terrible.
And like, I can see why they want to do it.
I can see why they want to do it, but Jesus Christ, the dialogue
is so terrible.
I mean, she does have a lovely smile, but fuck me if she gazes off
camera one more time.
She is one hell of a beautiful woman.
I think that I think that this guy.
So it's Michael Frayne, isn't it, who plays his English, I think.
Um, and he, James Frayne, James Frayne, and he plays Sarek, and I
think he's really good, like, and he's, you know, in this quite a
lot, and then you've got this woman as Amanda.
And I was kind of wondering why is she their daughter?
Like, why did they do that?
Why did they make her Spocks?
Because, automatically a link, a massive link to the original
series?
That's going to give all the Star Trek fans a massive hard on.
But I think it's also saying that this show is going to be
different, that we're coming from the same set of parents, but
we're a person that you've never heard of before.
And this is a black woman who you've never heard of before.
So we're telling a hidden story, a hidden version of the Star Trek
story.
And I think that that's very definitely what the agenda is in
series one and it's what people couldn't tolerate.
Like they couldn't, yeah, this, Jesus Christ.
It's pretty rough, isn't it?
It is the earnestness of how they talk about the shitty sci-fi, you
know.
The AI, the information can't be allowed to stay here, mother.
Oh, fuck off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's crazy.
This was strange new worlds.
They'd be going, the mother would come along and go, hang on a
minute.
You're going 900 years into the future to get rid of just to ditch
some data.
Yeah, look.
But again, I just think like I just want to watch Sanequa smile.
I don't care.
I can't hear how terrible this dialogue is over.
Snake was beautiful.
For my failures, Nathan.
I humbly ask both of you for forgiveness.
Yeah.
I think this is Sarah when, you know, when he had dementia when
he's got a bit crazy.
I think that this is the worst scene in the episode.
Um, and you can tell that they, they, they're aware they're
shoehorning it in.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have had that opening scene with Sarah and
Amanda back on Vulcan.
Um, you know, because no, remember, we should have known at this
point. get through to them.
No one from Starfleet knows where they are.
No one can get through to them.
Communications are down except for internship communications.
They're completely isolated.
They can't call for reinforcements, but Sarik can turn up.
You missed the line.
He said, we just happened to be passing and I noticed discovery
there in front of me.
I'll go and pop in and see a man.
It did see Michael.
No, no, he felt they felt it in their cartres.
Do you know what I mean?
It's just like, oh, come on.
Come on.
Every time I talk to you, I feel something in my cultures, you
know?
So that is kind of terrible.
So this is her, that's her mother, Gabrielle, who, um, we will see
next year. in an episode where it's basically not about their
relationship at all and everyone's calm down now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
Although she is still gazing off camera longingly.
She does it brilliantly, but she does do it.
Well, they try they get her to do it all the time.
You know, that's exactly why they try and get it all the time. you
know, I mean, skip forward to series 3 episode one, you know, where
she was on the drugs.
She was much more fun then. you know, when she wasn't gay enough
to screen.
Just having fun.
I like this.
I really like this.
You announce that you're leaving forever.
I wasn't even here to sob and wail and throw myself at your feet
which again, you know, that's kind of making fun of the rest of
what's going on.
Uh, and it.
And it ends quite quickly.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it, it's not prolonged, and it's very tilly.
Oh, boy, here we go.
The ultimate self-sacrifice team.
We've decided we're all coming with you.
Because we love you.
No, I can't let you do this.
We're not asking permission.
This is impossible.
You have lives.
But it's ridiculous, isn't it?
That's the problem that because they need to keep the show going
you know, like, and because they can't have it be an accident.
It has to be deliberate.
They have to choose it and they have to know there's no going
back.
Otherwise, the premise of the show becomes something that they
don't want it to be.
It becomes Voyager.
Um, and they don't who wants that?
No one wants that.
And so...
Well, we quite love it.
Just spot goes, so, do you know what?
I'm not coming because I've got a series to get to.
But he doesn't if you'll forgive me.
But that's what's really good.
He doesn't.
Everyone watching this nose that Spock doesn't go to the future
with them already.
Okay?
But he's saying that he does here at this and he does for most of
the episode well into the 2nd episode.
He's still intending to go with them.
Couldn't just one person.
Just one.
Even just an extra.
Just go, you know what?
Eaps of people just didn't come.
Do you know what I mean?
Not everyone.
See, I mean, Lisa, this guy, what's his name?
Vodka?
Ash.
Ash?
Oh, whose fault?
No, he was Vog.
That was his Klingon.
That was when he was a Klingon.
He was fuck.
He's a lot prettier. now, isn't he?
He is a lot prettier.
Of course, now he's off to section 31, basically sacrificing his
life.
No, no, he's not sacrificing his life.
He got a nice job.
He's staying here.
He's, but these 2 were estranged.
Do you know what I mean?
sacrificing their relationship, though, or their potential
relationship?
Well, no, they're estranged.
They're not in a relationship at the moment.
Everything went wrong because he... they're behaving like they
are.
No, they're not.
They're just walking off.
But then... then we resolve it.
Oh, yes.
Kiss him, obviously.
Obviously, look at him.
Oh, Mortier, she's cried free 4 times now.
I know, but look who she's leaving behind.
And again, I think...
That's great.
I think that's great.
And it...
This scene is probably...
I love a bit of a legs flair on this show, don't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do.
Star Trek.
I tell you where there's more lens flair, though.
Strange New Worlds.
Strange world is all about the lens flare.
Okay, so this is the scene that I quite like.
So you've got Saru.
He's talking to his sister.
This message does get out and gets to her and she actually turns
up in the 2nd episode.
And so all he's doing is just leaving a message.
He doesn't think she's going to get it.
He doesn't actually tell her that he's going to the future.
He's saying we're in a battle we're about to die.
Now we get her talking to her parents.
But and this is a little bit overwrought, but like it's her.
It's Mary Wiseman and she's fantastic.
But then we get this thing where we just move over and it's like
oh, oh, is in the same room.
We don't get a cut to Oo.
We just, the camera just pans slowly across to OO, and there's
OO.
We know nothing about OO and we will never know anything about
her.
We don't find out anything.
She's absolutely a tertiary character. 3 series.
No, we don't, is Demma the same thing?
What a thankless role.
But no, I mean, they're essentially scenery with small parts, but
one of the things that that structure does.
Yeah.
Did you hear that?
Every test I failed.
She's getting her backstory in there. 28 times and you encouraged
me to keep going.
But then and then now we have Paul talking to someone, you know
and all of that is just like, just little things about them
leaving messages for someone.
They're all quite short, they're all about 30 seconds, and we get
a montage of them to give the impression that people are leaving
willingly, and that they're just saying they're good byers to
their family.
And they're getting biased that we don't know about them. hearing.
I like it.
I think it's good.
You know, if you've got no, you've got to sell this stupid
decision.
Like, I don't think you can buy it.
It doesn't make any sense, but I think they're giving it a good
college try to try and sell. themselves into a corner where none
of the characters make any sense anymore because of what they want
to do with the plot.
Yeah, with the series.
Because we want to keep this collection of characters together
when we go into the future and this is how we've decided to do
it.
We've decided to have them heroically go into the future to save
the present and that's how they leave us.
Do you know what I mean?
And then we never see them again.
And then we want to follow them.
Yeah.
Do you sum up your relationships with these people in 30 seconds
you know, in these letters?
Yeah, I do understand what you're saying.
Again, though, because it was a bit overwrought and the dialogue
was pushing a bit.
Yeah, yeah.
I was like, you're really...
You never know who Tezzy is.
We don't know who Paul is talking to.
We don't know anything about his relationship with his family.
We'll never find out because we'll never meet them. half enough
time, you know, to explore these people.
No, I don't want that.
I want them to do space shit.
I don't want to beat.
Like, I don't want next generation series.
You better look at your watch then.
You've got about 15 minutes before they're gonna do any
spaceship.
I don't think I do because we're 7 minutes from the end of the
episode.
Yeah.
Oh, hooray.
Okay.
So this is Anson Mount saying goodbye, which is exactly what we
would expect him to do.
He doesn't say goodbye quite the same way that Jason Isaac did
because of course he fell into a giant power station and exploded
which was pretty awesome.
I mean, I loved him.
I would have rather stuck around, but he is awesome.
So this one's the security woman who will be there for a little
while in series 3 before she actually leaves.
And then there's this weird moment where we kind of don't know
like he's not leaving anyone in charge.
If you cry, Em.
Hold it together, Michael.
Sure, just well up.
Yeah.
No, she cries so prettily and that's part of the problem, isn't
it?
Like, it's the 1st time that we've had anyone who could really do
that as a leader.
The issue we have with, so...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just crying every Friday.
I like that too though.
Whereas you know me, I'm a hard bitch.
I absolutely fell for this.
I was super moist watching this all the way through the other
day.
I think I started when you...
I think I started when Hugh and Paul were talking and then that
was it.
I was kind of gone.
I was completely sold by it.
So we kind of put Saru in charge, but it's not clear who the
captain's going to be.
It's deliberately left open.
We never find out who the captain will be. wonderful when he's in
charge.
Oh, Saru is a brilliant captain.
He should have really good. stayed the captain as far as I'm
concerned.
But I think eventually you've got the thing where you've got a
main character and eventually we want the main character to be the
captain, you know, like, and...
They kept that quiet.
No, she is.
Of course she's the main character.
And that's one of the differences.
But it is one of the differences between this show and the other
one is this show has a main character and the way that the other
ones don't.
This show was always going to be about Michael.
And then what ended up happening is that it went off in a
completely different direction from what they expected.
But that's a different thing.
And I remember all of the news stories reporting that in fact, the
main character was going to be the 2nd in command of the ship.
It wasn't going to be the captain at all, and then we found out, in
fact, it wasn't even going to be 2nd in command of the ship after
you know, episode one.
So, you know. bloody good job, you know, control waited 15 minutes
or so.
So everyone could stand around and say all their goodbyes and
roll.
There was a countdown.
They knew it was about to arrive.
So they stay, you know, control will be here in 10 minutes and
then Anson Mount gets to say goodbye to everyone.
I just remember messaging you, watching this episode, going, well
mate, just get on with it, for God's sake.
Well, they just fucking turn up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they had to wait for Enterprise to arrive as well because
remember, Discovery came by Spore Drive and Enterprise came the
long way around.
This everyone will see visions of the future and their heads will
explode, I know.
And that's the theme, of course, of Star Trek Picard series one.
Um, which also has visions of an AI destroying everyone, uh, which
sends various Romulans, man.
This camera.
Will it stop spinning around like this?
This scene is so boring.
Like this scene is absolute...
I feel like I'm on a fairground ride, for God's sake.
That's great.
That's much more interesting Will you keep it still?
No, because that seems quite boring, otherwise.
Oh my god, he's going around again.
Yeah, that sucks.
I'm getting those to go.
You said that it was all like this.
This is the 1st one like this.
Oh my god.
I still don't...
I mean, this was a great, I did love that.
I still hate you.
Yeah, the thing is mutual.
I mean, they did smooth out stammets quite a lot.
Yeah, he was really horrible in series one.
I loved him.
He was great.
Yeah.
And so now we get to see the full thing, don't we?
No, we don't.
We saw it already.
So we saw it already.
And then she...
We've only got 3 minutes.
There's no more time for emotion.
Bring on the ships.
Yeah, I can't even remember what the end is, actually.
Here we go.
Well, I think you saw this, not all of them, because there's more
work coming the 2nd episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's enough to get, you know, get him a sweat going.
Oh yeah, look, we get a countdown on the screen.
That's the other thing about having the Enterprise have a big
window.
Like, we forget that that's one of the, uh, that's one of the
things invented by this version of Star Trek is that the bridge
has a big window at the front rather than a big telly and it's a
big improvement, I think.
Do you remember in 1st contact when the screen is off and it's
just a wall?
It's just a bulkhead.
They're all sitting facing a fucking bulkhead.
At least the camera was a bit more stately.
Well, much more stately.
Having a bit of a problem during podcasting lately, you know?
Because I'm finding women more and more attractive.
Michelle, yeah, Michelle, yeah, yeah.
She is.
But that was the same.
She's watching her ponytail swinging in her black gear and she
goes, oh, she looked great.
Yeah, it doesn't look amazing.
There are so many ships and it just never lets up for the whole
next hour, does it?
I ask you what that red person is on the bridge with the spiky
face.
I don't know, that's not a good look, is it?
But there you go.
There we go now.
At least they're staring longingly at a load of ship stars.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the window looks great, doesn't it?
Look at that enterprise.
I was getting, you know, the end of Favour of the Bold when all
the ships appear. getting that.
And of course, there is a very sacrifice of angels moment in part
two.
Yeah, but we'll get there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, good.
Finally.
So action.
Let's go.
Oh, wait. episode's ending.
No, no, no, we're just getting Lucas at everyone.
We have to see everyone's face before the episode ends, then
Michael, obviously, and then we go.
So there you go.
That was about 7 minutes of people emoting to each other.
You're in...
That was about 20 minutes off.
Absolutely was not.
Jesus Christ.
What?
stopped at the halfway point.
The one scene where the camera was moving around.
We were 30 minutes in and the only scene where people were talking
about their feelings was Culber and Stammets, and that was a good
scene that wasn't about that.
No, I think.
People talking about their feelings when they were doing their
letters, people talking about their feelings.
Michael and her mum and dad.
Michael and her mum and dad admittedly was a truly terrible
scene.
That is true.
But this was much less bad than I remembered it being and then I
feared it was.
They sort of, about a 3rd in, have their plan ready to go.
And then at the end of the episode, they start moving.
Yeah, but in between those 2 points, nothing, there's a lot of
stuff happening emotionally and there's also Dubai and setting up
but plot wise, nothing is happening at all.
That's okay, because I think there's more to things than plot.
And in an episode like this, which is about getting us from A to B
because we've decided that we have to do this.
And because it's our 2nd last episode.
So we're putting all the pieces into place and then we have
everyone arrive for the finale at the end of episode one and
that's pretty standard.
Like, I don't think that's a huge failure.
That's the sort of thing that happens all the time.
I think the other issue as well, is a series of issues I clearly
have of all of this, is that I think arc plots, arc place season
plots now that we do.
Yeah. can be a bit of a problem because if you're not invested, if
you're, well, that, there is that because I was constantly playing
catch up in this, even though there was hints of bobs and
flashbacks and all sorts going on, I was like, where the fuck am
I?
You know, like, um, no, the other problem is, is I don't like this
plot this year.
I don't think it's particularly interesting.
I don't care about evil AIs and time crystals and suits are
popping and out of the future and mothers and all this bullshit
that's happening.
And so that's kind of a year of trek.
I'm not invested in.
And I know that's that's a risk you take. like by having a season
long arc.
But this one does have individual episodes that do things.
And part of the problem, I think, on untitled Star Trek project is
that we checked in on the dullest episode of series one and then
the dullest episode of series two.
In memory serves.
Yeah, if memory serves it was.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was dull.
And it wasn't about anything sort of particularly interesting, but
there are individual episodes.
And, you know, we will revisit some of them in the next episode
because of course, Michael has to go back in time to an earlier
part of the season to make all of the things happen.
Like, I guess this is thin in that the plot is explicitly about
plot mechanics.
So it's about a message telling them to come to the future, which
is sent to them in episode 14, which they keep receiving
throughout the season.
And the big mystery of the season is what are these red things, and
it turns out they're all things saying, make sure you go to the
future in episode 14.
And so the whole thing, the whole season is about that.
And whereas season one is about the Klingon war.
Season 3 is about the burn and arriving in the future.
Season 4 is about the 10 C, and season 5 is a fun sort of escapade
about finding the thing that that lady from the chase left
behind.
So they all have sort of strong kind of science fiction, fun
science fiction ideas.
This is on the other seasons.
Oh, Besser, aren't they?
I think.
The hook for one, the Klingon war, that's interesting.
I'm just setting up the show is interesting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Three, the burn.
I hated the ending of that, that girl screaming or whatever that
was.
It was a little, what's his face?
can't even remember.
Terrible.
But it's a big exciting idea, right?
All of those ships blew up and left the Federation decimated and
just scraps.
Interesting.
And then 3 planets are being destroyed.
I mean, come on, it's it's epic.
There's a big, sorry, four. a big scary thing that we can't
understand. coming for us really. really interesting 5 I've not
done.
In comparison, this is, I suppose the hook is less the Red Angel
which is just dull.
It's more bringing in the original series of Enterprise and all of
that, which is pretty good and he's pretty successful. yeah.
It's successful enough to spawn off a spinoff show.
I have to say that I do think that a Red Angel is something that
we've never seen in Star Trek before and that it does give you
some pretty incredible imagery and I think that that's not
negligible, but because essentially this is all about setting up
the move to the future, right, starting from episode one, it's a
problem.
It's a season that's really only about oops, we got it wrong.
Let's retool the show for 14 episodes.
But I'd also say that I think Discovery always gives you
incredible imagery.
So what's really important is less the production, because it's
always good is it's the words.
And I don't know if the words are here in this season.
I don't I don't think they pull together a year that holds up down
the line.
Watching this this time did make me want to watch the series 2
again, because like I said, a lot of it I've only watched once and
I would like to see how it fits together in retrospect.
I certainly remember at the time.
I remember wondering where we were, you know, whether we were
going to see Spock, all of that sort of thing.
I'm interested to see how it fits together because you've got the
sphere, you've got Terelesium, the people on Terelesium.
You've got all of these things happening that you can't see
fitting together, you're wondering where, where Spock is and
what's happened with him.
All of that stuff, I think, was a pretty solid hawk, and then you
have like meeting Rebecca Romain's character for the 1st time.
All of that stuff was pretty good.
So I'm keen to see what it's like, but it is my least favourite
season of discovery, and I'm pretty sure I know why now.
It's so interesting that one has gone up so much in my
estimation.
It's really...
Now I've explored the latest stuff. yeah I look forward to looking
at that more.
I mean, I suppose I'll out the 1st half of this.
The 1st episode by saying, uh, let's remember as well that I am
English and we are all a bit awkward with emotion and being honest
about how we feel.
And so maybe the problem is me and not the episode.
Very American, isn't it?
Alright.
I love you, Nathan.
I'm just going to stare off camera crying, okay?
literally what I did for 50 minutes watching this the other day.
All right, so I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Bring on the action.
We have our previously, but all of this stuff seems to be from
last week.
So I think we've just seen all of this.
We know all of this.
What's kind of good.
It's all action at least.
There's a bit less gloopy stuff, isn't there?
We're just kind of...
Just watch this.
Yeah, just watch this episode.
It's all the plot points.
Yep, yep.
Discovery has to go to the future.
That shot.
I don't remember that shot, but we do get the, so it turns out
that the Section 31 built the angel thing.
Oh, there you go.
Look, we're having Hugh and Paul talking about their relationship
briefly.
Hero show at the Enterprise.
Yeah.
It's all unique, really.
Just watch the last episode.
Although you miss all of that stuff with Poe, who was pretty
cute.
You're a lovely short going through the transporter beam.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Having fun, bringing in the farm.
Queen of Syria.
Oh, my God.
Oh, the best.
All we need is a line from Shawshow now.
It is perfect.
No, she's just there with her arms crossed.
So can I ask you why you were so cross about, you know, you said
you were scared that they were going to pop into the future.
Well, precisely that reason, I really liked the idea that we were
recreating original track, but for a new century, and that we were
butting up against the kind of continuity that we'd had before
that there was sort of friction created between the continuity of
this.
And I thought that series one was really great.
I thought it was really good and I just thought this is, they're
doing this because people got crossed that they might have to
rewrite some Wikipedia pages.
Was that the general reaction then?
The people were crossed.
I think so, yeah.
Technology seemed to exist.
Yeah, all of that stupid stuff.
No, no, no, I get that, but what's that the reaction?
Yeah, that's why they made the call.
And remember that even now, I don't think that you have those
holograms.
You know, there's dialogue here about how the Enterprise won't
have holograms on it anymore.
You know how that was one of the features where people would just
turn up on the bridge and they'd be holograms and people would go
well, we didn't have that in original Star Trek.
How can that be possible?
And you just kind of think, come on, don't be so silly.
You don't need an...
Let's just make this explanation.
Yeah that's right.
To copy...
Yeah, exactly right.
It was just absurd.
Oh my god, look at all their spaceship shooting about.
We're literally the POV of one of these spaceships sort of flying
information.
It really good, isn't it?
And, you know, like, um, this is something that we've never been
able to do in Star Trek before, but obviously we can.
And it's really great.
And that's kind of what Star Trek is...
I mean, the money on the screen here. between those exterior
special effects and the interior sets.
It's astonishing.
It really great, isn't it?
Now, I don't mind the camera being quite...
Now we're in a big action sequence that we're following.
Absolutely.
It makes everything seem like...
And they're doing that wonderful thing that Discovery does really
well of suggesting the chaos and the panic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As lots of people walk through the room doing their various
people.
Do you know what I mean?
Like people come in, they say they're lines, the camera follows
them, but we're not cutting between those scenes.
We're just following them.
And also the 3D interthing is pretty great.
Yeah, but I was getting massive lawmower man vibes.
Yeah, the space suit with the lasers on.
Yeah, no, but that's 3D printing. printing looks like.
That's how the 3D printer.
Remember, they have the thing on Protestar that 3D prints the
shuttles.
This is great.
Split screen, you get...
Number one and debt.
Yeah, split screw.
Yeah, it's really good.
That's wonderful.
Well, see, I'm enjoying myself more already.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now all that mush is over and done with.
Reno's doing the time crystal.
Can you cut that in half?
violate the laws of physics?
No.
Oh, finally.
That pretty Asian man got a close-up.
Yeah, so pretty, isn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, cut cut to your show looking very unimpressed, but also
thinking he's quite hot as well.
And what about this?
She does a lot with a look.
Communications guy Bryce behind his panel as well.
He's pretty handsome too.
Like, the ship is lousy. would fancy the spiky red one as well.
Well, maybe. strange people.
Saru, what about Saru?
No, I like the sort of zombie Borg queen lady.
Oh, yeah.
You and your weird kinks.
And I'm look, I'm getting moist over your show.
I mean what's happening around here these days?
Yeah, but you know, she's pretty great.
Later on, right, when she's kicking the shit out of control.
It's wonderful, isn't it?
hottest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Then the gravity goes off, right?
And then there's rocks flying about the place.
I mean, I was in heaven.
Everything that you can want from Star Trek, another reaction shot
there from race for you.
Perfect.
Oh, this was great as well.
Him going, it's not even being.
Do not buy into this brain, isn't he?
He's really good.
There he is.
Leyland.
How do I know that name?
Leyland.
Oh, he's a character in Twin Peaks.
That's why.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everybody hates you.
It's on short, she says, well done. everyone hates you.
Congratulations.
Everyone here hates you.
Yeah.
Because what I've achieved in episode one, buddy.
Well done, Joe. everyone hates you.
He's great, isn't he?
He looks very scary.
And so this is great too.
And we saw this in episode one where we had those corridors out.
The yeah, this.
So this is...
Look at those ships.
This is where the show goes going forward, isn't it?
The show has ships that detach bits off themselves or ships that
are a bundle of bits that just sort of travel with one another.
We do that to discovery.
It's nacelles get detached and stuff.
And in the last episode where we had those things folding out of
the ship and creating like corridors between the 2 ships that were
docked together.
Like all of that, here we go.
We just had the 2 here's my theory.
We just had a shot of the battle set of the battle field
essentially, the 2 ships, and then the ships surrounding them, and
we saw where we were.
Then we went into the credits.
Like from above, like you had in the old Star Trek game, you know
so you can see the whole playing field.
Yeah, yeah.
It's really good. really great.
And for those of you out there, you know, the 90s trek fans. that
are complaining about how sophisticated the technology is these
days.
If they could have done this in the 90s, they would have.
They did everything they could possibly do, but they would push
them. pushing this.
Like in Deep Space 9, those battles looked incredible at the
time.
We were absolutely in awe of them.
And I think often they look really good as well still now.
Well, um, because there's sequences in Way of the Warrior, where
they try and do the...
Well, no, they don't try.
They do the POV of a photon torpedo as it's going through the
battle.
And it's like a money shot, right?
They can only do it once or twice.
Whereas here, they just have the tech and they can, they can do it
all the time.
It's it is the natural extension of what they were doing.
Yeah, of course. you know, but 20 years later.
Yeah, yeah.
God bless technology.
I mean, we used to console ourselves by saying that what we really
need are sort of great actors declaiming great lines and stuff.
And all of that's in that.
Of course we do, but it's still television and we still want
vision and this show absolutely delivers it.
Yeah, it is the visionist Star Trek of all.
I'd probably say.
Even more than Strange New Worlds actually.
Well, maybe.
I think Stranger World does look amazingly fabulously weird and
does things that the show doesn't do.
There's an ambition to this, though.
When they go for action.
He's extended action.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know.
I love the chaos of it.
But you can't quite figure out who should.
We got the shot from above.
Now we can see what's happening.
Do you know what I mean?
There's that ring around them, all of that.
It's very clear.
That's what being in a batter was lying, right?
There's so much happening.
You don't get a clear vision on a clear path.
It's everyone trying to kill everybody.
Oh, rocks flying everywhere.
Come on.
Yep.
Oh, man.
See him there with a beard.
I don't know who he was, but on Discovery.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's some that's Bryce.
He gets replaced by Christopher.
And they, he starts to disappear a little bit from the show.
Did you hear that?
It's the lion Sanequis always wanted to say, Reno, we need the
time crystal.
Why, she signed up.
Yeah, and you know what, right?
As sparks rain in slow motion around that enterprise bridge, it's
like visual porn, isn't it?
It's so great.
It's so good.
We, I said, throw yourself across the set like the original
series.
That's about must have been like, am I getting paid to do this
really?
I'm doing Star Trek.
It's incredible I wonder if as a little boy, you know, he watched
original Trek.
Yeah, no idea.
What he was going to be doing.
He's younger than me, I think.
I mean, he must be.
And I love it.
Don't you love how the princess's eyes?
Her eyes bring.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They blink sideways.
They're really good, aren't they?
looks really good.
Her eyes blink.
Joe, what?
Thank you for the additional explanation there.
Man, man.
I mean, their spark budget must be pretty.
So we have Saru, like being mean to Michelle.
Do you know what I mean?
Like going, have you got anything to contribute?
You know, like, why are you here?
Nathan, maybe it's something about the mature woman, you know
because number one is quite pretty as well.
Why wasn't she?
Yeah.
So she is, of course, that's Rebecca Romayne, who will go on to
play Una in Strangely World, and she is, of course, married to the
person who plays Jack in Lower Decks.
So they are a Star Trek Power couple.
And in fact, in the episode, those old scientists where Boheemler
and Mariner come on board, we do hear Jack saying how hot Una is
and how adorable she was.
But yes, they're both 1st officers in Kurtzman Trek, and they're a
couple Power Star Trek couple.
Oh my God, I love her so much.
Saru went, you know, our 1st priority is to get Michael Burnham
back and Georgio went for you perhaps.
Oh boy, oh boy.
The bit where she cuts her down later, I must pay attention and
get every line on this podcast, all right?
It's so good.
It is so great.
Man, look at this.
It's stunning.
Yeah, just looks incredible.
I was watching these on my phone and actually seeing them on the
big screen like this.
It's far more impressive.
Oh, no, it's amazing.
It is amazing stuff.
But they are, look at the, like, just the pyrotechnics.
I mean, it's not real, but, you know, like the computery stuff
just looks amazing.
I mean, it's as real as it's ever going to look, right?
No, that's true.
That's true.
You don't think in sort of 20, 30 years time, we'll look back on
this and go, oh, well, doesn't look primitive.
Maybe.
But I think where the hell will we be then?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, what are we doing?
don't know.
We'll be on our own holiday experiencing Star Trek for real.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe.
Oh, this is just all gorgeous.
It's like being at a movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But it was always like that's the thing that this does, I think
that Star Trek, that the Discovery does, is the big finales are
big events because they change the status quo because things
matter.
It's not just a, you know, like a syndicated show like Star Trek
the Next Generation, where we finish in the same place where we
started every week.
Like things happen all the time.
I'm not sure where the mixture of rocks and sparks became like the
ultimate action that you could have. but honestly, God.
Did you see that scene on the bridge there?
They were flying about all over.
What's happening now?
with zooming down a lift shaft.
This is all too fast for me through these old eyes.
The lift shaft things, I think, just look absolutely amazing in
discovery, like they're very, very strange.
That slow motion where they literally all slammed against the
walls there.
Did you see that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fabulous.
Oh, unbelievable.
And...
Oh, stomachs has been impaled.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Shouldn't have been such an arsehole to Reno.
Well, this is gonna happen.
This is gonna be it for the rest of the thing, of course.
And he's still impaled when we when we next see him, I think.
It's going to put a crimp on your day, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I think he has to do some engineering or give some sort of
instructions and stuff.
And so it's Reno and Culber in that episode 2 of the next season.
But uh, yes.
Oh my god.
I mean, I didn't think there could be anything hotter than bearded
Spock, but Beard and Scott saw covered in blood as well.
That's amazing, as well.
Did you hear the line there?
Let's just make sure nobody else gets some pail, sure.
They're so weird enough, because the action's going now.
I think the wit's faster as well.
There's just more funny lines, you know, to break it up because
that's right.
That's right.
And like everything is so good.
And we've got Dr. Watts a face.
I can't even remember her name.
She's really that old. alien.
Did you see that alien?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know what that was.
Are you telling me I'm getting made up for 5 hours and I don't
even get a line.
I'm just on a bio bed.
Oh that was great.
I don't know who that woman is, but she went, no, I'm going to do
a half-arse job just for once.
Yeah, I know.
I know, it's so good.
Do we know her?
Yeah, I think she's, I can't remember her name, though, and she is
not on my list of people because I didn't copy it all the way down
but she has been on it before, and she is another one of the
doctors.
Well, she's jolly good fun.
She absolutely is.
Here we go.
Oh, hang on. slowed down a bit now.
Oh, the suit.
Yeah, yeah.
Back to the plot with the suit, back to the plot.
And so the time crystals in the suit, we're all looking at the
suit.
The time crystal.
I fucking love the time crystal now.
I mean, look at this when the suit comes on.
I know, isn't it great?
Like, not only does it sort of save us time, we don't have to
watch her put the suit on, but it just kind of...
Do you remember when we watched Enterprise?
We wash Malcolm Reed for 5 fucking minutes.
And the show can now lean into this more because we're about to go
950 years into the future where this shit happens all the time, you
know, and because they've got the money to do it, they can do the
programmerable matter thing.
They can do the thing where rather than going out into the
corridor and going into the next room, they just personal
transport to the next room because they can't be fucked walking.
Like all of that stuff are so great.
I mean, in a way, it is such a sunny, isn't it?
Yeah, in that.
Oh, I know.
This scene between Spock and Burnham is great.
And it's just pretty, pretty small.
And that's enough.
I didn't need the second one.
I didn't need, which is absolutely packed full of saccharine
dialogue.
And that's, but that is the farewell.
This isn't the farewell.
This is a possible farewell.
Do you know what I mean?
because Spock is staying with them.
Did you see that there?
In that cargo bay, there was what looked like the TNG containers
in the background there.
Did you see the prisms?
All of them stacked up on top of each other.
That would have been deliberate.
Absolutely.
Now, what I was going to say was, I think it's a savvy move in
that when they go into the future, they can just let their
imaginations fly with the tech and all of that, you know?
And we just want to go mad and we can now.
And they did that in series one.
I think series one looks incredible for the time, but they are
able to even make a go up a notch because they're free to do what
they want.
And so they've redesigned what tricorders look like.
They've redesigned, you know, what ships look like for God's
sake.
There's those things that you see in that late discovery where you
don't even know what they are.
Like there's some space thing happening outside, but you can't
recognise it because it's so foreign.
And, you know, they're able to read a science.
Oh, they push the big head guy out of the way.
They're able to kind of redesign, you know, thinks absolutely
completely.
It's amazing.
This is so good.
Look at this.
Obviously, the visuals on the pacing is very different.
Out we go.
Both of them.
But in terms of doing a lot of plot and cut in between action and
character, I was getting DS9 vibes from this.
Obviously, this is DS9 much in the future.
But I think that this is this, this, you know, DS9, because of the
serialisation, because of the constant retooling, um, you know, the
I know, that thing, like whatever the hell they even are, all
swirling around each other. arrow shit going after her.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's amazing isn't it?
Look at this now when we see from the suit's point of view going
for all those arrows.
It's incredible.
It's so good.
Debris.
But do you remember that 1st episode, like the opening episode
which sold me.
This is when I was sold on Discovery, was where she goes out in
the EV pod thing to investigate that Klingon artefact.
And it's just like, you know, Star Trek, the Next Generation did 7
years and no one went into fucking space.
Like, they may as well have been on an ocean.
No, it was for me.
You know, when she was in the, in the cell, and then the whole of
the room, is blown up around her.
And it's just a cell, in space.
It was amazing.
I thought, God, we're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.
Really good.
Like this. holy crap.
And it's distressed as well.
You know, like this... like there's lens flare and it's almost
like the glass on the camera is a bit dirty or whatever.
Like, it's, it seems so rare. all those rocks.
Oh my god.
You haven't even had the best yet.
You see slow motion rocks later.
It's amazing.
Here's Leland.
So, do you remember, have you seen the episode yet, then, in lower
decks, which just explains why there's so many rocks in the
consoles?
name for them and it explains what they're for, but I can't
remember what the dialogue is, because I have seen all of Lower
Decks, but they do explain the rocks.
Fortunately, in discovery, they don't end up murdering people, but
in 90s strike, it happens all the time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, we mostly survive.
Well, I think they drop that from the academy prospectus.
There was a, back in the day, there was a how to avoid the role.
That's when the consoles...
Well, it's when the knives.
It's when they pack them with knives.
Oh, yes.
What was her name?
Captain Garrett.
Or old Captain Garrett.
From Section 8.
Ryland Bill of Burheads.
Is she from section 31?
She's in section one.
Oh is she?
Yeah, young Rachel Garrett is in section 31.
As a part of section 31.
No, she's the sort of Starfleet person who's keeping them kind of
honest.
You know, she's kind of telling them to calm down.
Her husband, Troke, man.
They will not. no stone.
They won't pick up. absolutely great.
So good.
Shields down to 38%.
Oh shit.
So, Michelle's, would you like to join me after we've done some
breaking and entering, would you like to join me in making Leland
scream?
Oh, yes.
Michelle and none.
And then it's paid off when she goes now.
Now I want to hear you scream.
That's what you had, Michelle for.
Do you know what I mean?
To torture the bad guy before killing you.
It's wonderful.
It's a perfect decision.
Badass bitch as well.
All right.
So this is the scene where Spock discovers that he's not going to
see that.
See, we lean into that.
That thing, her big typewriter thing, which is in space, which is
programming.
And obviously that's what everything looks like in the...
I think Picard was the king of that, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, the consoles in space.
Sorry, holographic consoles.
Remember how they, you know, the badge is their tricorder and it
comes out and it gives them a little keypad and stuff, you know
like it's all thing.
Oh, so what?
God bless CGI.
What's this?
But the fact that they are now able to put the CGI element so
seamlessly into Oh, it's the torpedo that was off in the flash
forward.
Yeah.
I remember that Voyager episode where the shuttle went paled
inside.
Well, look what you can do now.
Yeah, that's right.
And I think we're going to get that scene.
So we are going to kill off Captain Admiral, um, Admiral Cornwall
in this because she's going to go and disarm the bomb.
Do you know what I mean?
So that she gets a scene with Anson Mount to say goodbye.
And she was kind of our, she was our admiral for those 2 seasons
and she had that relationship with, with...
No, we get car. going forward.
Fabulous president, isn't it?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, but I remember, you know, Vance, handsome Admiral Vance.
So you get really...
You get Relick, the president, the woman, the, you know, the
president of the Federation. but then you get Admiral Van. one
who's Admiral Vans.
Is she the one that's a bit unsure about Burnham?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I love it.
And they actually butts up against her and she's part Cardassian
and part Bajoran, remember?
That's right Yeah, she's really good.
Vance.
I know.
Bl handsome.
Very handsome man. grief.
You should have a big orgy with all the discovery characters.
I wouldn't know where to go first.
I'll probably come and find you if I'm honest.
Wait, look at the dogs.
Oh, yes.
Coming out to clean up the ship.
That's so adorable.
Is this the thing?
Whenever we do, they're super cute.
So there's a, I can't remember when we 1st see the dots, but there
is a short track entirely about a dot.
Oh, good.
Is there not an episode about outdoors?
No, they play a big role at the end of series 3 at the resolution
of the series 3 finale, which we've already seen.
But yeah, no, they're very cute.
Usually going forward, it's whatever there's a cleanup crew.
You see a few dots coming in the back, actually.
They're adorable.
You could do the X-acomps with them.
Yeah, they could they could come sentient.
I'm not cleaning up your sheet any longer.
Oh, see, that's, yes, okay.
I'm going to ask you a question.
Because this episode is about what?
12, 13 minutes longer than the last one and longer than your
standard discovery episode.
Now, I'm not saying I don't want to lose any of this action, which
is very exciting.
But you think it probably could have been cut down to 45 minutes.
Well, there's no need to do that though.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and give us some leisure, like, this is a big change to the
show.
Let's have some time, like, make it an event, set it up, make it a
giant event, you know, have a really, really long battle sequence
that lasts like nearly an hour.
It's pretty amazing, and we've never done it before, and we're on
streaming.
There's one episode of discovering that's 35 minutes long, I
think.
And there's this one, which is an hour and 7 minutes.
I think that's okay.
With the pre-title sequences ending anything between 3 to 25
minutes into the episode.
There is one that's very, very late, I think.
What, 213?
Maybe not quite as much as that, but it is quite light.
But I like playing that.
We've blown up something.
What the hell is that?
It's a Klingon knife ship thing.
We do get a name.
Far kinder about those Klingons.
Yeah, but I think, so it's not what we settle on.
And obviously we don't have them in Strange New World, in Stranger
Worlds, where they're really visible in series 2 and they just
look like sort of standard Klingons, but both Discovery and the
film series try and find a new way of doing Klingons that makes
them...
Which I admire.
Yeah.
I just, yeah, all those scenes of them talking Klingonese.
I just couldn't bear it.
But again, making them speak not English was an important part.
Like, I think that was a good decision, but maybe the scenes
didn't quite work.
I do love that opening scene.
And I think Takuvma looked incredible like that.
He looked fucking scary and alien in a way that Klingons hadn't
for a while.
So this is Lorell, who was obviously Ash's girlfriend. and they
will go off together, I think.
By the time we get to Subspace Rhapsody, the Klingons are singing
boy band songs.
I was like, maybe we've lost the plot.
Well, it is, it is, after all, Stranger Worlds, which has to, you
know, 2 or 3 comedy episodes a season and that's fine.
She looks like the new Klingons.
The one in the background looks a bit like our standard Klingons.
They're walking it back.
Again, remember they had no hair in series one, and now they have
hair in series 2 because they've all stopped shaving.
Is it another sort of a minor apology?
Yeah, it's another minor apology, but I do think they should have
stuck with it because I did think it made them look more alien.
Now here's Saru's sister. coming to join the battle.
Yeah, and she gets, they get to say goodbye properly and I'm
really glad about that.
We did see him recording his goodbye and that's what brought her
here.
But it is nice to see her kind of speak to him.
And of course, the next time that we go to Kaminar, it's quite
different from the Kaminar that he experienced because it's nearly
a 1000 years later.
Although the one in two, which is set on his world.
That was a great episode.
That was my favourite episode of the year, I think.
There's an excellent short track as well, which ends with Giorgio
picking him up from his home world.
I watch more of those short tracks. we should do another one at
some point.
Yeah, so he's worked out that she now needs to go back in time.
The reason she can't go to the future is that she hasn't set
enough of the, um, you know, 7 things to make it possible.
Here we go.
So, yeah.
What's going on?
We're cutting from thing to thing now. what's happening?
Because this is where the red signals were earlier in the season.
She can't go into the future because she hasn't sent those signals
yet.
So she has to go in the past and set up the entirety of the
episode and only once she's done that, we should be able to go
forward into the future.
And there are 7 signals that we know about.
We've seen 5 of them.
She's going to go and set those 5 now.
Then she's going to set another signal to guide them through, and
then she sets the final signal to let Spock know that she got to
the future, okay?
And so, so this is like, uh, it's like a Doctor Who concede.
It's like a Stephen Moffatt episode of Doctor Who.
You go back and you make the season happen.
And in a sense, that's why the season ends up not being about
anything because the season is all about setting them up to go to
the future and every adventure that they've had, which we just saw
excerpted in that flashback, has been...
So throughout the season, we're trying to figure out what all
these signals are about.
Yeah.
And then at the end of the season, we're just going to send the
signals for us to then find at the start of the season.
Oh, I'm getting bosside.
Yeah.
I mean, Baselwick's position.
It's absolutely how it works.
AI sausage.
So what is the season actually about?
It is about, it is about going to the film.
Jumping to the future.
That's all it's about.
Well, at least they had a goal.
Although we have fun while it lasts, but essentially the arc is
kind of a bit cramp.
Yeah. fun and a lot of tears.
Yeah, yeah.
I like that.
I like that in my Star Trek.
I wanna be made to cry.
And I also want to be made.
I like Emperor Giorgio with a big gun.
Oh, yeah.
You buy an incredibly hot guy.
Like, come on.
Josh, you wait.
It's so cool.
And she magnetises him.
So good.
That's all set up in a previous episode too.
We did see someone else who was full of the nanobots.
In fact, I think Giorgio alluded to him when she came in and saw
Michael for the 1st time last episode.
So this is very much Katrina aware that she's about to die, I
think.
Well, they just murder her already.
They're milking this a bit.
Yeah, but again, like, we have to give, like, I think someone
needs to die.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I think someone probably needs to die.
No one else does, do they?
Does anyone else die?
To be honest, Nathan, you know, I have watched this entire
season.
I didn't even remember who that character was.
Don't you remember the scene in series one where she's in bed with
Jason Isaacs?
She's in bed with Lorker and she sees that he's got in bed and she
goes, what the fuck are you doing?
Like, why are you sleeping with a gun under your pillow?
Because she had a...
I mean, she's got some senses.
She's fucking Jason Isaacs.
Well, yeah, yeah, but she had an original.
She had a relationship with original law car, and then she's
having sex with mirror locker and realises something's gone
horribly wrong.
Oh, look.
Look.
Oh, and this, now we're going into the future together.
Yeah?
Um, I, like I kind of, I like this because it's not just the
medical thing.
It is their relationship.
You know, it's their relationship and also, like, there's that
thing, listen to my voice, you can follow my voice.
Yeah, and hear they're finishing that conversation from the 1st
episode.
I do love the fact that they are tying up all this nonsense.
Yeah, they have to do that.
And it, like, so the relationship between Ash and Burnham, which
was had stopped, you know, they get to have a massive snog on the
way out because why don't, why wouldn't they?
They're both incredibly hot.
Now we have these two.
Go with them, that character.
Was it because they wanted to give her another romantic interest?
I think so But in story, it is that he wants to stay behind with
section 31 to make sure nothing like control can ever happen
again.
And he actually, when he's being interviewed, when he's being
debriefed at the end of the episode, he makes it clear that he's
concerned about that.
It's certainly not as egregious as ditching half the cast in
Picard series too.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, look.
Oh, Hugh had a bit of a cry.
We're going together.
All right, here we go.
So now we get to see her go back in time and so she can only, but
she can only go, oh, there we go.
That's the explosion.
That means that he never gets to go home.
So he doesn't go with them because of this explosion.
He can't get back to discovery now.
What caused the explosion?
Because they're in a battle and people are firing shit at each
other all the time.
So it's just a straight thing. will happen.
Yeah, that'll happen.
So this doesn't this looks incredible.
That suit has got enormous wings.
It's wonderful. an angel.
I just think the iconography is so great.
But then what happens is this wormhole opens in the surface of the
universe. makes the universe too dimensional.
And so we go sideways and we see that the universe is just a like
a piece of paper.
Look at the ship flat.
Do you know what I mean?
So it's another dimension.
I think it's so imaginative and so different from anything we've
ever seen.
That is what they would have done with the wormhole in DS9 if they
could have.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This I thought was amazing.
It's such a simple effect is that they've got her standing there
and they're literally firing sparks at her.
Well, I think they do eat slow motion. falling down on top of the
camera or something.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And every single one that hits her, there's a sound effect, almost
like breaking glass.
So it feels like a dramatic assault.
Yeah, yeah, it's really great. isn't it?
Yeah, it's so imaginative, so interesting visually.
And the music here as well was great.
I mean, the music's always great.
It's really good in Kurtzman Trek generally, but on discovery
particularly.
She's screaming around.
Yeah, yeah.
Look at that.
I can see her feelings.
Right.
And where is she emerging to?
Is she going to Terelysium first?
Yeah, look at the look of wonder on her face now.
Ah, that, look at that.
Just stunning.
And through that hole and again, you know, the stripes, the whole
look of it.
Incredible.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
And all done without dialogue.
You're just expected to figure out what's happening.
And this is the 1st episode, I think, right?
I think that this is the 1st episode.
Um, And she encounters the, so this is the ruins of a spaceship
the Hiawatha.
Yeah, there it is.
Um, And she is actually saved.
We're introduced to Jet Reno.
She's actually saved by herself.
I, yeah, do you know what else I was watching?
I wasn't too sure what was happening in this.
But all of this relied on your memory.
Yeah.
We're going back to previous episodes.
Watch the season through.
Exactly.
Then all this would make sense.
And it would be great.
Do you know what I mean?
Because we were wondering what that was all season, and now we
actually see it resolve, and we can see that it's her face.
We didn't get to see that before.
And then the scale changes.
Like she disappears and seems to get smaller to go through the
hole.
The way she goes from place to place.
It's just that effect of like the lasers in a row coming around.
It's so simple.
It's really terrific.
So now we're on Terrelysium.
And we had to save these people, remember?
Like there were a small group of people, like in what looked like
earth.
Do you know what I mean?
But they're here from the past and it was a, that was an oddball
episode.
And they were brought there by the signal left by the angel, which
is what she's doing now.
So good.
We...
So if I went back and watched the entirety of season two
everything I've just seen in the last couple of minutes there.
I see in various episodes.
That's the crumbs that led them here.
Okay.
Yeah.
But you are right, though, out of context.
It is it's baffling. baffling.
Yeah.
I had enough memory.
You're not really supposed to watch this out of context.
No, you're so soft all of this.
It's a streaming show where you watch.
That's right.
Yeah, that's absolutely it.
And I think TV's more on the premise of our podcast.
The hampers us here.
It is that we're doing it randomly and that works very well when
it's syndicated because that's how it's designed to be watched, but
this is not designed.
The game didn't require anything.
Could have been any episode.
Oh, could we go back to your show, please?
Yeah, what's telling though?
My God, please.
Rocks flying across the floor.
Oh, the gravity is failing.
That's why.
This is amazing.
So look at the rocks.
The rocks all hit the side and now Giorgio is crawling up the
walls.
Karate Kid.
What's clearly happening is that this bit of corridor is on
gimbals?
and is rotating around and the camera is fixed.
Isn't it happening on the roof?
That's higher than right there. falling down.
I just thought it was just clever camera work.
No, no, they're very clearly that that's turning around.
It's why it's all shot in that corridor.
The corridor is literally turning around, but the camera's turning
with us.
That's amazing.
It looks incredible. amazing.
Oh, man.
I just can't get over these moving rocks I'm so sorry.
Never mind the actual choreography of the fire. isn't it?
Oh, she's so fucking cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amazing.
Look at her.
She's going up against...
He's technically a robot, isn't he?
Nanobots, whatever you want to call it.
She's full of little robots.
She's not a match for him.
Yeah.
Although she's getting the shit beaten out of it right now.
Just the fact that they found a way of making the rocks fly
wonderful, isn't it?
Oh, look at his face.
Yeah, shot him in the face.
Good for her.
Get to engineering, I magnetise the bitch.
Oh, look at these fixing it.
That's great.
He's really good.
And back to her.
She's going to Camenada set the next signal.
When does Giorgio leave the show?
Is it four or three?
Um, halfway through three?
in... four?
I can't remember actually.
Is it because Michelle Yeo has some Oscars to win?
Yeah, yeah.
So it's a beer universe thing.
It's the guy and the Guardian of Forever takes her to the Mirror
of Universe and we see the Guardian of Forever, you know, but in
in sort of weird modern Star Trek.
Look at that.
Yeah, it's pretty good.
It's a 2 part, it's a sort of weird 2 partner.
Was it because she had movies?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, we were lucky to have her as long as we did.
No, we were, and she just became huge, and it was crazy rich
Asians, and then obviously everything everywhere all at once.
I mean, she's always done movies.
She's a bond girl, as you know.
I mean, the casting on this is great.
But man, that was some prestige casting, brilliant, Michelle
yeah.
Well, that incredible opening scene of Star Trek Discovery, where
it's 2 women of colour...
On the desert planet, just talking about their relationship and
stuff and saying this is what we're doing in Star Trek going
forward.
I can remember watching that. and being so upset when they killed
her off.
Yeah, yeah.
Pretty good, isn't it?
Little did I know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, now we're saying goodbye to Admiral Katrina.
She's still alive.
She's about to, they're about to blow her up.
Will you die already, Apple?
I loved her, though.
She was great.
It was nice having an older woman and a nice admiral who we liked
you know.
The best admiral's still in a chair, though.
She is pretty great.
Anyone that could emasculate Picard that much.
Katrina is pretty good as well.
Look, this is just going out.
It crazy, isn't it?
Klingon chips.
I thought my chocolate shit would be bloodless.
Oh, now they're all talking in Klingonese.
That's what we want.
Yep.
No, it's not.
I wanted to hear.
I wanted to hear I did want to hear him speak in Klingon.
I wanted to hear Shazad speaking Klingon just one last time, I
think.
I'll tell you what up over me.
Very quickly.
Was because I would just that was the 1st scene, wasn't it?
Was the Klingon talking in all that Klingonese.
I could just imagine a non-Star Trek or a non-science fiction fan
switching on and going, no, and just turning it off.
It is a pretty great.
But again, it's less long than you think and remember that speech
does end with English where he says...
It all feels long to me.
And lie, we come in peace and he says it in English because it's
what the Federation say.
And I thought it was really good, you know, to see a proper alien
hostile alien kind of feeling about what the Federation is to
start the episode off to see it from the outside.
Yeah, I must watch that 1st series again.
I must go back and have a look So Michael's now back.
She's back from setting up series two.
Thank you, Michael.
We've ticked all the boxes and we said our goodbyes.
We can now go to the future.
Now we're going to the future.
So we're setting, we tear Elysium 930 years into the future.
So was the red herring then that we thought that the signals was
her mother?
Okay.
But she was nothing in the end.
But her mother was trying to say, like, you know, obviously gets
the thing here, but she's trying to fix it and can't from where
she is.
So it's a thing.
So she sets the 6th signal to help them find their way through.
And then there's a 7th signal yet to be left behind and she will
talk about it in that long interminable conversation with Spock
that's about to come.
Yeah, I mean, I had to I mean, to be fair, I've had more than
enough action, so I'll give them, you know, one of these. been a
lot of action, isn't it?
It's pretty terrible.
Oh, this is the best stuff, though.
Michelle being choked.
She's covered in blood Kick him in the head.
Kick him in the head, Michelle.
Is it the head or is it the nuts?
I can't remember.
He hasn't got nuts, really. nanobots.
Well, they're full of nanobots.
They're still there, but they're swarming with nanobots.
That's it.
Go on, girl.
Right.
He's trap.
I was really great.
He goes, you really think you can keep me in here?
He starts smashing the windows and you're thinking...
It's really properly missing. is kind of scary, isn't he?
Like he's physically intimidating.
Yeah, do you think this cage will hold me?
Look at him.
He looks right.
It's amazing doesn't it?
a look of complete glee on her face. so happy.
That's it.
That's why we need her.
I want to hear you scream.
It's great.
So why does she decide?
She has to stay behind.
I can't really remember 90 seconds. still alive.
Yeah, but this is her last scene.
She'll go.
Oh, thank goodness.
That was it.
She spotted the, that was how that last scene ended with her
spotting the control for the emergency bulkhead release or
whatever.
I've been watching it count up.
We couldn't go without one last sacrifice, could we?
Yeah, I think so.
And that's quite good, I think.
And look, this isn't where your story ends. and I think you know
that.
And he knows that, of course, because he's seen the time Crystal
on Borath tell him where his story really ends.
And now he's saying, oh, well, if my story really ends there, then
I could just stay here and it can't possibly go off because I know
where my story ends.
But it doesn't matter.
I mean that has a great sort of logic to it.
Yeah, that's pretty good, isn't it?
Whatever your path may be, you can handle it.
Thank you, thank you. find a way to keep her on in series 2 where
she was very definitely associated with Lorca but she does have a
relationship of some kind with Chris here.
Yeah, there we go.
Good old Katrina.
Obviously, they're not taking her into the future with them.
No.
Yeah.
Go on, Captain Pike. fabulous series to get to. but he doesn't
know that yet.
At the moment, he's just going to be in the pilot of Star Trek.
He's, um...
He's on the planet, isn't he, in the 1st episode of Strange New
Wales?
He's sort of retired.
Yeah, because he's been to Borath and he's discovered what he's
that's why he doesn't want to go back because he knows how he's
going to die and that's him reacting to that.
So, uh, Everybody go and listen to that on Title Star Trek
episode.
We had a wonderful time discussing that.
There is another link between this and that episode.
So that 1st episode of Strange New Worlds is called Strange New
Worlds. and we watched it when it was the only episode of Strange
New Worlds available.
And it is a pretty incredible episode, but we'll talk about the
image that appears because there is a flashback to this episode at
the beginning of Strange New World.
You know what's funny, right?
Obviously, Detma and Owo were just brought in to be sort of bridge
crew members.
They do all the exposition and action bits.
Yeah.
But as time goes on, we do get more time with them, don't we?
And we learn a bit more about them.
They get minor character arcs, but enough, yeah?
But they still get more than actual regulars in Enterprise, Hoshi
and Mayweather.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, even the characters designed as minor characters in
Discovery get more.
Like, I think that there's a tension between the way that
discovery is set up where the main character is Michael and then
the other characters are Stammets and Tilly and stuff and they're
not particularly important.
They're not the bridge crew and they're not the people who meet in
the observation lounge to discuss this week's space problem.
And eventually we move sort of closer to that idea of the show.
By four, it was going very much. in that direction.
What it does do is it gives us the impression that are a lot of
people on the ship.
It's not like Voyager where sometimes you kind of feel there's 8
people here and that's all.
And so this is their big tearful goodbye.
And in a way, he's old Trek, and she's new Trek, and even the way
it looks, do you know what I mean?
Where he's soft lighting, he's got a beard, he's a white man.
She's the weird blue science fiction lighting, and she's a
beautiful black woman.
Like, it's, it's separating.
Do you know what I mean?
She's leaving behind this version of Star Trek.
Thank God.
To do something magical.
I'll never find it again without you.
There's a whole galaxy out there.
Oh, please.
What's her last advice?
You just go into the future already.
Yeah.
And so she's making you tear up watching this.
Yeah, a bit.
She's not now.
She's she's making she's creating Spock, isn't she in this
moment?
Like she's sort of saying you withdraw from people, you don't let
people touch, you let the, and she's saying, do that.
She's saying, go and find someone, you know, and it will
eventually be Kirk.
Oh sweetheart.
Reach for them.
Let them go at you.
It's all too expensive too much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Again, it's no subject.
That first.
Do you remember that 1st goodbye?
The hands.
It was great.
But again, you know, they want to give everything a proper sendoff
and they want to do some writing.
It is a little bit too obvious.
Maybe, okay, maybe that is the problem here then, is that they
fill the knee. got to take everything off.
They're hampered by the fact this is the original series.
They have to get these characters where they need to be, you
know?
Yeah.
Yeah, mind you, I think the end is really great.
Now we're back in the cage with and the camera's rolling around
for some reason.
What happens when a man made completely out of nanobots?
It's just a lot of ties.
I've seen him, but yes, all of the... what happens when they're
magnetised?
They fall to the ground through him and like leave him like Swiss
cheese, don't they?
That's so great.
He looks so scary.
He's fabulous.
Oh, she does.
What do you mean him?
I think he looks scary.
He's physically really intimidating.
She's finally came to hurt somebody.
It's a natural way.
That's right.
He's no match for her.
She's been stuck around these Sakarine idiots for ages wanting to
hurt her somewhere.
Look at the lights in the red things.
You know, those red railings that are all over the enterprise, but
they put red lights in them.
It's so great.
Yeah, so who's boxing?
What transport you out?
Yeah, yeah.
We need you for the series.
Yeah, yeah.
But I did think that that was good because we all knew that he
wasn't going to go with them, you know, and so it adds some weird
tension to how this is going to play out.
You know, it's not gonna turn out the way that they hoped it
would.
Till he's doing a thing.
Okay, the modern day O'Brien there with Tilly in that combined
space.
And then she just said somebody owes me a beer, which I thought
was pretty great.
That's what I mean.
The old loin, you know?
you're like, yes.
Something to grab hold of.
And it's Tilly, which is kind of what Tilly's for.
I think.
Is this scene still going on?
There he goes.
I was, I do think when she left, that was another, I know there
were reasons, but that was another mistake.
It was sad.
Losing your show, losing Tilly.
Yeah.
She, they only half loser and she is completely back for series
five.
So she's just missing for a bit of series four, essentially.
And apparently she is back a bit in Starfleet Academy, which is
set after Discovery.
Here we go.
Are we going into the future now?
Yeah, I think we might be.
I think we might be.
How far are we from the end of the end?
Great angels leading the way.
We're still 13 minutes from the end of the episode. doesn't it
look great?
It just looks so nice.
Well, we saw tie up the episode with all the, uh, the strange
briefing stuff. which I think is really good.
It is pretty great.
That's it.
There's one last chance as they go into the future, everyone sort
of, once again, staring off Cameron longingly as they get into the
future.
So it's this shot here, which I think is absolutely iconic.
So she's flying up into the whatever the wormhole she's created
and it's not this shot.
It's just about to come.
It's discovery going up into the future and Chris sees it out of
the front window of the enterprise and then we see it and that
image is what creates the problem on the planet in the 1st
episode.
So they see it and it violates the prime directive in some way.
They get the idea for a warp bomb, remember?
And that's what causes the intervention in in that 1st episode
but...
It's that visual image of of, of, and I think, I don't think we've
seen the last of it, discovery going up. you know, in profile
going up into that space thing.
It's such a great iconic shot.
I like to hear you scream now.
However, I could have done without Pike saying, goodbye, my
family.
I can't resist it.
But look at this.
This is my Hellraiser now. its face falls apart.
Yeah.
Look at those manabols.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They look really good, don't they?
And it's like his eyes are gone or something like his old face is
made. like he's covered in ants.
It's terrifying.
Yeah, it looks really good, doesn't it?
It looks amazing.
Just great.
Here we go now.
Sucks into a wormhole.
Still coming?
That shot there.
Look at that.
It's a it just looks incredible.
Oh, they've all stopped because Leland's dead.
It's one of those things where Leland's actually the only person
on the ship. you know what I mean?
And it's once you kill the boss vampire, then all the other
vampires disappear, so control's gone.
And so none of those things are firing.
Oh, go.
Their P gets to say goodbye.
I actually like that.
That's cool.
And we get to see Saru's sister, seeing them leave.
Fair enough.
He's not going to see her again.
You can have that one.
That's pretty good.
Oh, you're thinking back to the kiss.
Yeah, well, you would.
Did you see Mary looking at him like Mary looks sidelong and he
was just like...
What are you thinking about?
Oh boy, no, come on.
I don't need to see the kids touching hands.
Too much.
That's so cute.
They were cute.
I'm glad we saw it.
It is literally like the writer's a gun.
Tick, tick, tick.
We covered it all.
We're ready for the future.
Oh, look at the state of that bridge.
Those dots have got some cleaning up to do.
The lights like sparks, everything.
Oh, here we go.
Oh, my God, here we go, into the wormhole. into the sink, down the
street.
Lead the way, Michael Burnham.
Does that look good?
The red angel that you are.
Yeah, wow.
Oh, here we go.
Now, this effect, it does look a bit like the affecting Star Trek
4.
When they go into the past.
Doesn't it?
You're looking at their faces, like, their faces being torn to the
side.
They're almost certainly deliberate. you think?
Well, why then don't we see bizarre, strange white busts of them
coming at the camera?
That would have been great.
Look how many rocks are on the floor.
I keep going on about the rock.
I think you got it.
I think you got it from Saru there, and we won't see them again
for the end of the episode.
That's them gone We did see we did see Sarud.
Look at all the garbage that's left behind from the battle.
Um, we're also really looking wonder at the future.
Do you know what I mean?
Enterprise.
Yeah, it's not looking good.
Oh, the front of it exploded because of the torpedo.
Oh, fuck.
Look at that.
Now, see, they would have done this in 90s trek if they could have
done.
These gorgeous panoramic cities with the Golden Gate Bridge
there.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, so the Golden Gate Bridge, obviously you don't need a bridge
now because everything flies and Mariner makes that point in lower
decks.
I hate the bridge.
Just hope we know where we are.
But did you see that the surface of it is covered in solar
panels?
Like, it's not a road?
It's powering the city, all right?
Yeah.
And so this debrief, which is done very strangely with them kind
of flicking in and out, you know, like, um, it went boom.
That's what she says.
And again, this is sort of like, you know, uh, uh, yeah.
It is a little bit, I think, of a too much kind of whining stuff
up, don't you think?
Like, yes, we'll never speak of this again.
I really like, like I really like the fact that we leave discovery
behind and we have no idea what's happened to them.
That's great. ever a mention of discovery in Strange New Worlds.
Ever.
Yes, because Pike, well, because in that 1st episode, in that 1st
episode where they say, you know, the planet, they saw the ship
going up into the wormhole thing and that gave them the idea of
the bomb.
But I think it may happen again.
I think maybe Spock talks about his sister or something.
I am not quite sure.
But the idea is that the reason that it's never mentioned again is
because no one ever talked about it ever.
You know.
I find it very amusing, you know, that the action was so furious
yeah. that people may not have figured out quite what was going
on.
So here we get a long explanation of everything.
All the technobabble, where everyone's gone. because they're lying
about where it's gone.
They're saying it exploded and what we're talking about now is why
no records exist of discovery and why it seemed to violate all of
the rules of canon in series one and got everyone so exercise.
I think what is interesting, the main interesting thing about this
is the fact that the guy who's debriefing them, we don't see his
face.
Do you know what I mean?
Like we never see his face. we ever find out who that is?
I don't think so.
I don't know, but it is a thing.
I think they're just a bit embarrassed by the whole affair, you
know, that section 31 computer stuff. all of this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'll never talk of this again, all right?
All those lives lost.
We'll think of something.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so here we have the thing.
No one's allowed to talk about discovery ever again or the spore
drive or any of that stuff, which is why all of the cannon
breaking stuff in series one is not...
I can see why you were annoyed.
Yeah, I like, kind of like, ah, yeah, it's just a little bit too
fucking neat.
And it is, it is so desperate to keep the timeline intact from any
of the damage that series one of Discovery might have done to it.
And I think that the fetishisation of the timeline and of memory
alpha and stuff is a big problem for Star Trek creatively.
Do you imagine?
Yeah.
Do you imagine if the fan reaction had been more favourable in the
other direction that they would never have gone to the future?
Oh, yeah, they would have just came right.
Absolutely certain the fan reaction.
So this is literally fan reaction, having an impact on the show.
Yeah, and it turns out to be okay, but it's generally a bad idea
because generally speaking fans are bad critics and they often
just want to see what they've seen before.
And this was nothing like what they've seen before.
Basically, series 3, episode one.
It's a new show. isn't it?
Yeah.
Well, look who we've seen.
And obviously run with that for three, four, and five, but with
the established characters.
Yeah, but see what's happening.
It's kind of doing the DS9 thing, isn't it?
Discovery has disappeared and now we're in a show about the
enterprise, right?
And this is...
This is, you know, and it still works as an ending of this.
So Spock is looking for the signal.
He's never seen it and like it's been 100 days or something.
It's been a while, um, but he does see it.
Like, is that how it ends?
We learn that they've arrived safe in the future.
We learn as the audience that they've arrived safe in the future
at the end of this episode.
Yeah?
Um, Yeah, so good.
So good.
Oh, look at that, how well lit this scene is.
Look at this reflection in the top.
It's beautiful, isn't it?
I just love how the glass is always slightly dirty, like the light
sort of reflects imperfectly off the glass so that it really gets
the sense that it's real light.
It's real glass, and he's decided to go back to work.
I mean, the consequence of all of this, a very neat tying up is
that we get Strange New Worlds, and that there is an imaginative
new sort of plough for discovery to thorough.
So, no, it ends up being a good thing.
I look at that.
Spock is back.
Oh, my God.
He's lost about 10 years without shave, hasn't he?
He's so pretty though, isn't he?
It's just like impossible to imagine that we're not going to ever
get to see this show.
Unfortunately, we do.
It's wonderful, isn't it?
And it's been redesigned and there are design elements from, you
know, this set in the Strangely World set.
I think it's not exactly the same, but it's certainly similar.
It's bigger.
I think I wonder how much that was down to fan reactions as well.
I wonder if it was because this was so positively greeted or if
the creators just went, do you know what?
We're on to a win here.
Yeah, we should be doing this.
I think it's both Probably a bit of both, yeah.
Well, you remember the Star Trek legacy stuff, all those people
saying that they wanted to see 7 and Rafi on board the Enterprise
G or H or whatever the hell it is.
Do you know what I mean?
Like at the end of Picard series 3 and how wonderful that would be
with little Jack Crusher there being English on the, you know
other seat.
And that would have been great.
That would have been terrific, but it was similar here for this.
And I'm really glad we got it because it's magnificent.
Strangely Worlds is so good.
I just can't think of, I know, I know you say with DS9, like they
reboot every year.
But it's still the same quadrant.
It's still the same races and it's still the same characters, even
though the politics change the goalposts all the time.
I just kind of think of another time in Star Trek.
They've just abandoned everything they've created up.
It's incredibly strange.
Yeah, yeah.
Baffling, isn't it?
Oh, that shot coming out of the Enterprise is gorgeous.
When he says hit it as well.
Like that's his thing and there we go.
I can see why it was a given.
It absolutely had to happen and it is really great.
It's really good.
It just feels like they're saying it out there, right?
The fact that they give them those last 5 minutes.
But remember that if Stranger Worlds never happens, that is them
going off to start Star Trek, isn't it?
Like they're going off to start Star Trek with the cage.
Now we've got this bizarre buck alley. of the way.
We've thrown them in the future out the way.
Yeah, and now we'll go off and do Star Trek as we always knew it
right?
And that's kind of cool and interesting and stuff, but it is also
just sort of, I don't know.
I don't know.
It just makes me a little bit sad that they react against
something that I think was really actually pretty great in series
one of this show.
What I do appreciate is like, because obviously they were trying
to reinvent the wheel with series one of discovery, they still do
get to do that going forwards because we go to a point in time.
We've never seen before, but with all of 90s treks, continuity and
races and all of that work that was done there for them to play
with and to sort of, and, you know, we've not had anything after
that, have we?
No.
Well, so Starfleet Academy will be in the 32nd century as well
after this.
So, yeah.
Wow, okay.
So Tilly is in it in Vance and stuff like that. and the best
Robert is in it.
The next episode has started, Nathan, you know, and I've had a
warning at the start there of flashing imagery and foul language.
Excellent.
That's what we want.
That's what I want from my Star Wars.
I wonder you know that one so much.
Fuck you, Jean-Luc.
So that's, you know, that hope is you part one, isn't it?
Which sets us up in series three.
Good stuff.
I have to say that 2nd part was far more agreeable than the 1st
part for me.
And whilst, yes, you made some good points.
I may have over egged for pudding a little bit in my case.
It's just the pace of it and the visuals of it.
I think it's funnier, that 2nd episode as well.
There's more chance in the middle of all that action to suddenly
dig in with a really funny line out of nowhere and then just cut
to the action again.
Yeah, where it all falls down is it is so neat, isn't it?
It's so tidy at the end that you're going, and obviously that
massive leap of everybody just going, oh, well, to the future we
go.
We still want to be on the show.
We love you, Michael Burnham, more than our family.
We love being on this show. more than our families and so we're
coming with you.
We want the work.
Yeah, that's right.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for you to
tell us, Joe, where we're going next.
This was my one, and it was an excellent choice, if I do say so.
So I imagine that you're going to redress the balance by making us
watch, I don't know, Voyager or something.
I mean, I would say it was a half excellent choice, but um, yeah
it seems to talk about. going to...
Flawed things do, though, you know?
Far more than just good things.
Well the game.
Anyway, I was going to segue straight across to original trait.
One, because we haven't done it in a while and 2 because, well
hello.
We've just had end.
Unfortunately, I'm sorry after all of that sort of excitable
camera work.
I'm just in the mood for the static camera work of 90s trick.
Okay, excellent.
I tend to always take us tonight.
However, I've taken out Enterprise because, well, that's your your
week.
Oh, picking and not mine. pick that next time.
So we've got the next generation, Duke Space Star and Voyager, as
I will remind you, despite percentages, there are still a lot to
get through.
Yeah, absolutely.
So are you ready?
I'm ready.
Okay, here we go.
Oh, scorpion.
No, we've done that. done that.
Okay.
Deep space on episode is season two, episode 25 Tribunal.
Oh no, quite boring, actually.
Oh, okay.
O'Brien's put on trial by the Cardassians for one episode.
And we see him and Keiko getting it on in the shuttle.
Yeah, you don't want to watch that, do you?
Accession?
My god, that was that good.
Yep.
Okay.
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season four, episode 7
scientific method.
This is a Janeway episode, I think, about science and religion.
Oh, no, you're thinking about sacred ground.
No, am I?
Maybe I am.
I think so.
From series three.
This is series four.
This is the one where there's aliens performing experiments on all
the crew, you know, just like. only worse.
Not as good, yeah.
Okay, let's keep going, shall we?
Okay.
Your random subject D Space 9 episode is season two, episode five
Cardassians.
It's a musical, isn't it?
With...
It's a goodie.
It is a goodie, but I think we've done too many decent.
It's not episodes.
Oh, way.
Here we go.
No, it's get that cheese to Sick Bay.
Your random Star Trek Forager episode in season one, episode 16
Learning Cove.
Oh yeah, we have to do that. absolutely.
I mean, I don't think we'll see enough of Tim Ross jogging around
the corridors.
Oh, no.
It's got boric in it, doesn't it?
Oh, I can't remember.
It is the episode where the cheese always brings down.
I know, it would give us a chance to see early Neelix after seeing
lightning licks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, terrible, Ne-Leaks after seeing it quite good
Neelix.
Albay fair.
I fear it may be the last time they ever bring up the Marquis at
the end of the series.
That's upsetting.
Wow.
I can promise you this.
It will be in no way as dynamic as what we just watched
absolutely.
I'm counting on it Youve been listening to Untitled Star Trek
Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 18th of March, 2025 and released
on the 21st of March.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, learning curve.
It's terrible.
So, wait, I can't remember which one it is.
Is it the one where he is teaching the people who is it like Good
Shepherd only with Tim Ross?
Tim Ross, yeah, and there's a Bolian, and there's Vorak.
Isn't there?
A Vulcan.
I think it's a Vulcrum. but he's no, isn't it Varik?
You know, the other the Vulcan who has sex with...
I can't remember.
There's that sort of big burly bloke as well that Shakotay punches
at one point.
Voyager.
I thought 4 it came along in three.
I could be wrong.
Yeah, there's a...
There's a woman, there's an annoying woman with American lady
hair.
Janeway meets the horrible, horrible children in her Gothic horror
novel.
Yes.
Oh, wonderful.
There's ugly crewman Dalby, who has a very slappable face, and
there's someone called Geren, who is a weird...
Oh, he's sort of hot, actually.
Yeah, criminal.
I'd forgotten all about Lord Burley.
Oh my god.
Oh, and they're wearing horrible outfits as well.
I don't know what's happening.
Well, those kids.
No, there's a, there's a picture of Tim Ross and American lady
hair, but they're wearing kind of like jumpsuits, like, yeah.
That's what he puts them in to make a run around the ship.
Yeah, yeah.
I think I can see Tim's Wang here actually outlined against...
Is it impressive?
Well, it's a little bit hard to see it.
It's not a very clear photo.
Well, have a good look when we're watching it.
Keep an eye out for it.
We're going talk about something.
Yeah, I do remember that.
I thought Varek was in it, but he isn't.
Yeah, but he's in something anyway.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Well, that will be miserable, but well, have fun with it.
That's it.
So we go and watch something that is huge and ambitious and kind
of... and you're complaining about the camera work and then you'll
have fucking David Livingston or some dipshit just sticking the
camera in one place.
You love it.
Don't even.
Don't even come with me, you bloody love, nutty strict.
And you know what, right?
I can't remember the end of the episode, but I can almost bet that
those...
The marquee people all work together to save the day from the
cheese.
Do they save Tuvok?
What do you reckon?
What are the chances?
I know what they say, too. reckon so.
Let's bring it up in the next one.
I say, right, we predicted that.
When you watch it, though, just quite quickly, remember, this was
the last episode of series one.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because they pushed forward 4 episodes in series 2.
The 38s or whatever.
This is where it ended.
Get the cheese to sit.
Oh my god.
The cheese.
Suddenly makes the discovery finales look really like winners.