Hey, Joe. Hi.
So we're back in Star Trek, The Next Generation, in its imperial
phase.
It's Series 5, episode 4, the game.
We have a teleplay by Brannan Braga, and the story is by a bunch
of people, including Brannan Braga.
It's directed by Corey Allen, who did encounter at Farpoint and
Captive Pursuit, and actually did a bunch of Star Trek, The Next
Generation in Deep Space.
I think that this is top tier Star Trek, like absolutely superb
one of the best episodes of the entire franchise.
Am I crazy?
No, I sailed through this.
I mean, I think this is the possibly the most entertaining next
generation episode we've done to date.
Like, there wasn't a part of this where, you know, the pleasure
things all over my body weren't pinging, you know?
Wesley's back The crew's having a great time, it's got a truly
truly hideously absurd premise.
Everyone's having orgasms all over the ship.
There's dreadful lawnmower man style, special effects that they're
doing.
They're bloody.
There's a great cab female villain that comes along at the end in
a tiny little ship ready to take down the federation with a
computer game.
I mean, it's just ridiculous, isn't it?
But there's a confidence to this.
They know this is ridiculous and they're just going to play it for
all it's worth.
And I think this has a really decent production as well.
Because when the direction really needs to hit, which is Wesley
being hunted through the ship.
I think it's one of the most exciting set pieces they've ever done
on the Next Generation, with great music, and, you know, lots of
running.
I just yeah, just brilliant. absolutely brilliant.
Should the next generation always be this stupid.
Absolutely not.
But should it be as stupid as this on a more regular occasion?
Yes.
Yeah.
So yeah, obviously this is them doing a Twilight Zone episode in
lots of ways.
And Star Trek the Next Generation goes back and sort of mines that
genre a little bit.
It's something that it sometimes does.
But here it's very thoroughgoingly a Twilight Zone episode, isn't
it?
With gradually the crew being kind of subverted.
And it's all done.
I think, like, I think the thing about it is just how well it's
gone.
It's quite such a work, isn't it?
And then you suddenly realise everybody in 10 forward is wearing a
game headset.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's really, it's really terribly good.
Like, I just think, and I think we're distracted slightly by the
return of Wesley, and this is a really, really good episode for
Wesley.
Wesley used to get made fun of a little bit because he was the
annoying kid who saved the ship all the time.
And so they get him back for one last episode, and I think they
know at this point it's not the last episode, but...
But he does save the ship.
He's got a chart on his wall for how many times.
Right, one walk, right, back to the academy.
But had he never come back, had this been his last episode, it
would have been great. because it gives...
Yeah, like it gives us the chance to imagine that he's got the
girl and that's really good.
He was still a kid, like a little kid.
He occasionally had, not really a love interest, but, you know
like there was, I I'm just thinking the Dauphin, perhaps.
Um, but uh, here it's proper.
We get to see him be an adult.
We get to hear about him flourishing somewhere else other than the
enterprise.
And so when he goes back, we're confident that he's going to be
okay and that he's going to be successful.
And I really like it.
I just think it's perfect and he's really good in it.
What's super interesting about that is this is one of those rare
times Next Generation is setting something up because 1st duty is
later in the season.
So they're establishing here that he's doing extremely well.
He's a confident young man, you know, good with the ladies, a bit
awkward, but, you know, it's Ashley Judd that he captures the
attention of in this. ain't doing too bad.
And then later on, it literally just kills his Federation career
dead, doesn't it?
And he makes a terrible choice.
Really interesting journey, and both of them, both Wesley episodes
this year are absolute highlights of the season.
And I think Will Wheaton's better as well.
I think Will Wheaton was a very nerd.
We know, like, I don't know if you've heard him in interviews.
He suffers from terrible anxiety. you know, he's on age
presently.
He's on CBD tablets, anything to help him get through the day.
And he said back when he was doing this, He was surrounded by
these amazing actors and he was just lost, you know?
And then they gave them this role was the most irritating child in
the television universe.
And he was saddled with that.
So for him to cut to sort of push away from that.
And say, okay, I won't do that anymore.
And then to come back just so confident.
You know, such a delightful character.
Kudos to him.
Yeah, I think he's great.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that there's one bit that he and Ashley Judd don't quite
land.
I think the script is doing one thing, but they don't actually
manage to do it.
And I think it is just sort of down to their inexperience and
stuff, but they're both super charming and they're both able to
kind of hold the episode together because, you know, by the end of
it, they're the 2 main characters, the only people who haven't
been subverted by the game.
And so they're our kind of focus characters.
And they're really fun together.
Like, I think they're super charming.
Effectively, they just have to be a cute engaging couple.
They sail through that, you know.
The last scene in his quarters. is gorgeous.
And I remember watching it when I was younger because, you know
this was my heavy Will Wheaton Crossphage.
I was sort of 14, 14, 15.
Um, and absolutely desperate.
Will Wheaton was all over my wall.
I was going to the hairdressers, you know, getting the Wesley Cup
of which I did send you a picture, didn't I?
I found the book.
You did.
The exact book, contagion, which I took into the hairdressers and
say, please make me look like this.
The most beautiful man on the planet.
I could still feel that when I watched this.
Just how in love I was with Wesley Crusher when I was a kid, with
no embarrassment whatsoever.
It was Will Wheaton and Edward Furlong from Terminator 2.
I can't say.
I'm kind of cute, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But where was I going with this?
What was I saying?
That's good.
It was good material.
Actually, Wesley Rocks.
And you know, in a series of absurd set pieces.
Yeah, they sort of stack up throughout this episode when he is
hunted through the ship.
I mean, he's firing phasers, um, force fields, isn't he?
beaming himself all across the ship.
Yeah, he's running rings around them all.
I mean, even Worf, you know, trained warrior.
Can't chase him up a bloody Jeffrey's tube.
Wesley Rocks.
Yeah, no, he's really good in this.
It's a great episode for him.
What do you think?
Should we go in?
One more question.
Nathan.
Is it true what they say about your birthmark?
All of that stuff is so good. really buy that.
Like they create that little world, which we do get to see, which
as you said, they're setting up the 1st duty, where we do get to
go to Starfleet Academy and see some of this staff.
And they're setting it up wonderfully.
I've got stuff to say about Starfleet Academy because I think the
way it's portrayed is really fun and interesting here, but they do
create a world that he's been living in while he hasn't been on
the show and I think that's done really incredibly well.
I think this is one of Brannan Baraka's 1st scripts as well.
Okay.
And I remember in an interview where they said, um, man, this guy
is good because he had to write a very functional scene where
Riker says to Troy.
I will try the game, you know, and there's a lot of scenes like
that in this.
And instead of just having that function, he writes this whole
sequence where Troy is sculpting a chocolate sundae.
And I know, I know it's sort of lazy characterisation, but Marina
so it's just loving doing it, you know, she stares straight at
Jonathan Frakes and goes, chocolate is a very serious business. you
know, and it's the sort of stuff that Troy don't often get, you
know?
She's, like we say, she's, she's not loose like that.
She's not fun and they said, my god, if he can do that with a
chocolate sundae, let's give him some really good stuff to do, you
know, going forward.
So I think it's a good script from Brandon.
Yeah, I do too.
All right.
I think we're going.
Let's do it Okay, see him then.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
So this is an unusual opening.
Don't you think?
Because it's like sex comedy opening.
We've been to Rizer, haven't we, before, in Captain's Holiday?
We have.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
So it's a known thing.
And Riker, you know, he fucks.
We know that at this point.
And so this is actually quite cute. you know, like she's a little
bit annoying.
She's very annoying tolerate that. giggling around like a
lunatic.
In fact, he seems a bit bothered.
When he jumps on the bed, right?
And then she jumps on top of him, sort of starts dry humping him
and kissing his neck.
He looks like, oh, I just wanted to lie down.
I'm a bit tired.
Will you leave me alone, please?
I did get a sort of like he gets a bit of a smile.
It was kind of nice seeing Jonathan be so relaxed, you know, like
he's more like the Jonathan that we kind of know, uh, you know
from interviews and stuff like that now. smile and stuff.
Riketsu Enterprise.
I'm having a serious problem here on right.
Too much nookie.
Oh, look at his lovely hairy chest out as well.
Oh, yeah, no, I'm a big fan of that. is proper bed hair as well.
Look at his hair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But he's sort of into it.
I think he's into it in a way.
That's a look that we have not seen from him in any other
context.
I think he's uh, this is his um, horny face.
She's so sad as well because she just reaches it off camera and
picks up the game very subtly.
So it's really interesting this game, isn't it?
Because, like, we don't have sort of AR or VR in the 80s.
So it's not a, you know, like it's not a, um, it doesn't have a
thing in front of the eyes.
But it's like a Walkman, you know, like it's that metal, that
metal thing that a Walkman headset has.
And remember that, like at the time, so the Walkman's reasonably
old at this point, like, you know, like it's a few years old, they
sold quite a lot of them.
And people were scared that people would just sort of retreat into
their own worlds with a Walkman on.
You know, it created your own space with your own music and shut
everyone else out. ultimately, but yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But the Walkman, the panic about the Walkman was very similar, I
think.
Yeah, there's his O face.
I remember as a kid because I was so impressed with the special
effects as a kid.
I mean, it was the most incredible thing I'd ever seen.
I think the savvy move they make with the game is that they don't
just do a special effect.
Because that would look, it does look pony, right?
a cone and a cup.
Yeah, but they have what the person's seeing outside of the game.
And that feels impressive.
I think so too.
I mean, at the time, it did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like here, where we're seeing verb game take place between his
face and hers.
Oh, wow, he's really...
And there's lots of scenes. they do lots of POV shots throughout
the episode of people walking around and things like that and just
seeing that special effect on the screen becomes something very
menacing if you're looking through that person's eyes.
It's pretty good.
It is pretty good.
So, Yeah, so so what I think is, because the it opens with that
right?
And so an attentive attentive viewer isn't going to forget that
scene.
And so when we come back to the ship, and we're not on rise and
we're not even mentioning riser, and it starts to become about the
Zukov, I think, like there's another ship there that has some
scientists... you know, your standard day on the Enterprise.
But the thing that I like about that is that it is the standard
day on the Enterprise.
It's not interrupting another.
It's not actually interrupting another show.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not like another episode that gets subverted by the game.
It's not like there was going to be a Star Trek episode this week
and then it gets destroyed by the game turning up.
This is just an ordinary day and what they're doing is sciencing.
And I know that sounds really sort of bizarre and, and, and, like
I don't know, I'm excited by the fact that they're doing science
and a whole group of people from this other ship have come aboard
the Enterprise because it's got the big sensors on the deflect
edition and we're having to ration it because everyone wants to do
it and stuff.
And I just think it's so good.
Like, I think, like, they do stop talking about it.
Of course. you know, because something much more fun's going to.
Like we had a, there's this episode in season 2 where that is the
episode.
Geordie La Forge is trying to juggle up all of the departments
that want this bit of equipment that they've come across.
And you know what?
It's so boring.
Like, I know, I get what you're saying, and you like the
procedural element and their competent space people doing space
things.
Yeah, but you know, the addictive orgasm game is a lot more fun.
Oh, no, that's right.
There's no episode without it.
That's what I'm saying.
But I think, I think, like, so Riker walks into this scene from
the teaser, right?
Um, and then we don't mention it again for a while.
Let's keep an eye out for when he 1st mentions the game.
Well, like as well, is when people are under the influence of the
game, it doesn't subsume their personality, they can still be
concerned about people.
Like so often when it's possession, you know, people just, well
I'm engaged, but Fadden becomes a zombie, but that's all she can
do.
But like, you know what I mean?
Like people are still behaving like they usually do.
They just have an obsession with this new headset.
Oh, here she is.
Robin Leffler.
Beautiful.
She was in Darmark, of course.
Oh, I forgot that.
Yeah, yeah.
So she does 2 episodes, which I think is great.
So we set her up as someone.
And, you know, it's something that rarely happens.
I think, you know, um, once the woman from Q who, Sonya
something.
Oh, Nicia Naff, as uh, and Sonia Gomez.
Gomez.
That's right.
Yeah, and I think she's cute and sort of adorable.
And Terry Hatcher from The Outrageous O'Connor.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, TNG starting all their careers.
Kirsten Dunce. is in an episode of series 7.
That's right.
And with Gene Simmons, it's ending careers as well.
Starting ending. exactly right.
Yeah, yeah.
So she is very cute.
I think you are right about her.
Yeah, look at her trying to do the tennis.
By multiplexing, multiplexing the array.
But then she just then she smiles at him.
And I kind of like Riker's not creepy, though.
He lying to her, but she's young.
He's not going to be a creep about it, but he's he's nice to her.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I kind of like that.
I wanted him to creeps on earth.
That would have been horrible.
No, no, still no.
No, no, no.
We do Wesley first.
There's a big destruction before we get to the game.
Oh, I'm here to tell her about it.
So I think that that is the cheapest and shittiest fucking Sunday
that they've just got off the craft services table.
I'm currently on a no-processed sugar diet, all right?
So that looks fucking gorgeous. delicious.
It has like chocolate chocolate buds on it that just look terribly
cheap.
Nathan, the way she acts this scene, she sells it.
Yeah, she's slightly embarrassed and I love the, are you depressed
and then she kind of rolls her eyes and I love the, um, should I
leave you to alone as well?
I think is... in now. like early series.
I mean, their chemistry together is just amazingly good, isn't
it?
She gets to be a little bit.
So I think the, like, why is this scene here?
Like, it's to give Marina something to do this week?
There's really, it's not about anything else.
It's just him saying, I've brought back this game.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But what else are they going to talk about?
Do you know what I mean?
They're not talking about work, which is what we were doing in
engineering just now and on the bridge just now.
But she is talking about pleasure, right?
And physical pleasure and how important it is.
And given that the game acts on the pleasure centres of the brain
there is something relevant about talking about it.
I can remember aged nipper, say eating my desserts with my mother
and going, relish every bite.
Make everyone an event.
She's looking at me. you need to go out more I used to quote Star
Trek all the time. was obsessed.
Look at that.
OMG.
My shadow?
Like it is so great.
Yeah, I know.
Oh, Marina.
I miss chocolate.
I do.
Look at that dreadful space bowl she's eating out of.
No, no, it's absurd.
Ridiculous.
Oh, we go, I've got something better than chocolate, you know
Troy.
That's just a game.
Also, there's something about the way they tell each other about
the game. which seems to be really kind of adult in a way.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I've discovered this thing.
It's really interesting.
I'm not sure I can put my finger on why I feel that.
But they have that little moment at the end of each scene when
they say, oh, I'll show you this game.
It's really interesting or whatever.
There's something about it.
The camera lingers on a smile.
Enormous, beautiful smile, as if she's thinking, what sort of game
are you talking about?
I'm up for it, you know?
next game.
Yeah.
Oh, Will Wheeler looks so cute.
My god.
He's out of that hideous gray uniform.
He's wearing a star for his uniform.
Yeah.
Or stuff like Academy.
Has he grown a little bit as well?
He looks taller.
He does seem tall. he's 19 at this point It's unbelievable, isn't
it, that O'Brien was just standing there at that transport for 5
seasons.
Poor sod.
Someone's ready to beam in.
Oh, thank God, something to do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get to push a button.
Oh, this is great.
The welcome back, surprise. love all of it. really good.
This is a sort of banter that Voyager would tank.
We're watching through our fingers.
And the other thing that this scene has to do is that it has to
establish data, right?
It has to remind us about data and new data is because data is not
affected by the game.
And so, you know, the fact that they have to take him out is part
of the reason why, you know, we defeat the game.
But look how excited they are to see him.
They're visibly excited.
You're right.
Geordie is hugely excited.
I bet you drive all the girls wild.
Do you remember when he grew up into a man and Wesley Geordie went
you know, yeah.
Yeah, well done.
I think he might be on the turn.
Oh, wharf made a cake.
I know I just think that's adorable.
And then Data does that laugh.
He does that really force laugh and then stops and no one reacts
to it.
Like, he just keeps talking, which I just think is really great.
It's not like a laugh line or anything.
I go one of 2 ways with data's literal interpretation of things.
Either I find it toad curlingly embarrassing or it's really
enjoyable.
And all the conversation about the deception here.
And when they're out in the corner, I just think it's just on the
right line of making data funny.
But it has to do it, right?
It's got, yeah, there you go.
That's the end of the scene and now Deanna's telling her about the
game.
And so the game is happening.
It's spreading while this is all is kind of distracting us in the
foreground.
I'm so sorry, but did you see those miserable looking pot plants
there in the corridor?
to suggest the luxury of the enterprise.
So here's the thing which I think is really good.
So they're talking about practical jokes and obviously that's
going to come up in his conversation with Leffler later.
But here he says, the 1st week I was there, this guy named Adam
Martoni filled my sonic shower with mud.
And then I got back at him.
What data doesn't understand is that Wesley wants to tell him what
he did.
That's the obvious thing for the next time.
Good for you.
And he's doing it because he thinks that's the right thing to say
at this point.
He's completely misinterpreted how that conversation's meant to
go.
And and no one, like in normal Star Trek or in Voyager we would
have to stop and explain that that was what, you know, that was
where he got it wrong.
And all of this where he goes, I don't have the knack for
dancing.
Oh, your mother's very good.
She taught me recently, their continuity.
And then he goes, oh, yeah, the dancing doctor.
It's just so great.
This dialogue is really really good.
But also when Wesley says, I'll let you know about the 17 part
holographic trading program.
He just nods as if, okay, all right, you'll let me know.
He doesn't get that I'll let you know means absolutely not never
in a 1000000 years, you know.
So here they meet.
I should be fine. sit here at my console.
Who on earth is that over there?
Gorgeous.
Ensign Leffler.
I love how he says, no, the computer has to do this.
I think that's so good.
That sounds like you talking to me. absolutely me.
So this is their meat cute.
And here's her 1st bointer.
So...
A series of pointers.
That was her 1st one.
Robin's Laws, which I think is where the Ferengi Rules of
Acquisition comes from.
Oh, maybe, don't you think?
No, they've already started doing them.
I think they've started doing that. you sure?
I think so.
Yeah, I think I think in Captain Holiday in series three.
Look at Wesley, he's bewitched by her, isn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, because he can't he can't find a way of stopping this
conversation.
You know, he's still holding her hand, still smiling at her, and
she gets him to disengage by saying, your neutrinos are drifting
in a way that sounds filthy.
Like, I think that sounds filthy.
I don't laugh though, isn't it, gorgeous?
And they're both smiling.
Oh, it's just great.
It's adorable.
I think the problem though is that they're supposed to be much
more awkward around each other.
And the thing that warms them up is having a thing to do, having a
problem to solve.
And then when they get together and the, you know, they're in Sick
Bay running, you know, experimenting on the game and all of that
sort of thing, that's when they warm up and they start to get kind
of really excited, but they don't, they don't get that.
The chemistry is too good, you know?
I think that they just don't quite get...
I think that that's where the script's going.
I think that that's what needs to happen.
They're really there where they turn data off.
It's great.
Very imperceptibly.
Dr. Beverly kicks his off switch and down he goes.
And then there's a great angle looking up at his head with them
all in his head. wonderful.
Yeah, they all walk in like villains and they all just sort of
stand around him.
It's really great.
So the off switch is from measure of a man.
I think, but it's established...
Yeah, yeah.
But it is established, I think, that only she knows about it.
Is that why they can only come in afterwards?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But this shot where they're all kind of standing around him and
staff and it's the people.
So if we've been paying attention, we know that it's the game
right?
Oh, for absolute.
Well, we know it's gone from these 3 people from one to the
other.
I don't think you need to pay attention too much in this one.
No, I know.
Oh, see, this is great as well.
Wesley talking about his time at the academy and you're right, the
beer where Picard goes, oh yeah, booth me.
Yes, of course.
He'll remember me and Wesley's like, no, we didn't remember you
sir.
The look on Picard's face.
When Picard greets him in the observation lounge.
He says he's talked to him in Latin, and it looks like the Latin
means, how's your Latin going or what's your Latin like or
something?
And then he says something which I can't understand and then
something kind of incomprehensible as well.
And I found out what they were meant to be saying and the Latin is
extremely bad.
Oh, it's not by someone who knows any Latin at all.
It's absolutely God.
I think it's the same person who did all the, you know, Native
American Chakotay stuff.
Maybe.
Well, initially, the Starfleet Academy motto was ex-Astra Scientia
which means from the Star's knowledge, but it should be ex-Astris
Scientia, and they have since changed it.
Well, I don't buy so much, so the Latin's wrong because, you know
I don't know Latin.
What I do love is that Dr. Beverly goes, woo, when he says it.
She's so impressed.
But what I like about it is that it depicts Starfleet Academy as a
place where you have to learn the humanities.
It's not all science.
He's got a creative writing teacher.
So he does Latin, creative writing, anthropology, and organic
chemistry.
I think, I think, um...
Well, I think...
Exactly.
I think that's great.
I think that's amazing.
You know, like it's kind of nice that my job still exists in the
late 24th century.
This whole thing, right.
They keep they keep coming back to with Picard being a bit of a
layabout at the academy.
And so this conversation here about carving the letters AF into
the elm tree and all of that.
Like, when we go back, we have a tapestry, we go back and see
Picard at the time.
I just love the fact that the most bug up the butt character had a
very, it was like Johnny Rotten back in the day, wasn't he?
you know?
Yeah, yeah They're never a bad boy. great.
Oh, now that everyone's pretending to Captain Picard.
Whoa, we don't know what's happened to him.
It just fell over.
Gaming complaining about a headache or something?
can't remember.
Obviously, I will keep saying it.
Ghost McFadden's evil acting is just like a normal acting.
Oh no, don't do a close-up on the tricorder.
I love it.
I want to pause. looks really cheap, doesn't it?
It's amazing.
It's the worst TV remote you've ever seen.
Just doesn't have enough buttons.
Has Geordie been seduced by the game yet or is it now?
No.
No, I think it'll happen at the end of this episode, do you
think?
Dr. Crusher's got everything under control.
I've got a game.
Is happening?
The only moments in this where I was sort of like, oh, dear, was, I
did send you a message about it, was when Dr. Beverly's having
multiple orgasms, because of the game and Wesley walks in, I'm
like, oh, no.
It's when they're forcing people to have the orgasms, you know, and
watching them.
This is all a bit odd now.
Yeah, so we're back to these guys and they are hitting it off, but
they're hitting it off.
Yeah.
I mean, they are hitting off in the context of, I do too.
I mean they usually all make a lot of sense.
I mean, yeah, they're obvious, obviously.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the pointers have to be based on them, don't you think?
Oh, definitely.
Blameless pointers.
How many sets of rules and laws are there in Star Trek?
We should count them up as we go.
That's 3 at least so far.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, see, this is nice though.
She knows friends at the academy that know Wesley.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's really cute. and she would, you know, they would mention, like
it makes sense. and now we do get to hear what he's doing.
Yeah, I think that's nice.
Half the story there. half the story here.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
You know, Brannan, I'll take it all back about those Voyager
scripts, you know.
Maybe you just got bored at the end.
I think he probably, like, I don't know.
I think...
This is where this is where he's excited to be writing for Star
Trek though.
This is his 1st stance.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like, you know, he became known as that sort of weird horror
man, didn't he?
Phantasms and stuff like that.
Just doing weird crazy shit with TNG.
Tiny, whimey shit as well.
Like he does the strange time, high concept things.
And I think he does them very well.
I liked his episodes in TNG.
He started bringing them over to Voyager.
He created the Vedians.
He did Deadlock and things like that.
And then I just think, oh, he was like, am I still writing Star
Trek?
Okay?
Yeah.
Alas.
Let's do the Bork, babe, you know, that's how lazy you got.
All right, here we go.
There's something cluster.
Where are we?
I did, oh, oh, dear, no.
Gates is slightly wrong.
Stop having orgasms on the screen.
Well, it's the 1st episode where someone walks in on her while
she's flicking herself off and obviously the other one is sub-rosa
which we've already done.
The fact that it happens twice is unusual. upsetting.
I mean, the 1st time it's Wesley, the 2nd time it's Picard, isn't
it?
The boss.
Yeah, yeah.
Super upsetting.
Well, you know, like, can I ask you a question about orgasms?
Yeah.
Were you quite loud?
Are you quite quiet?
I don't sit there going...
I'm fairly vocal.
What's your mood?
I don't know.
Mind you, imagine if games were seen in yours in the next room.
Imagine if she was screaming her head off like...
We may not be PG-13 anymore.
No.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know.
Like, this is you come back and your mother's a bit embarrassing
and clingy, and I guess that kind of works.
Um, God...
Well, no, it works because of the 2 of them, right?
They had 3.5 seasons to build...
Well, actually, she was gone for one, 2.5 seasons to build up
there.
But do you know what's lovely now, right?
Gates calls him her son on the podcast.
All the time.
They've just got this amazing relationship.
And she acts like his mum, like in real life.
It's lovely.
Right, right.
It's adorable.
It is kind of sweet. suggestion that she makes that, you know, oh
look, why don't you invite your date here and we can all play the
game together. play the game.
You kinky bitch. is wrong with you?
I don't think that's that.
No, I know that.
I'm just giving my reading on it.
But I think like he, the outfit that he decides on, I love her
putting the game there somewhere really obvious and then working
off.
I'm just going to put it here in your line of science, which I
think is...
Oh my God, look, a moment of subtext where he looks confused.
Oh, she wasn't behaving like my mom.
And then he's decided on this fucking outfit that he's wearing.
I do love her outfit.
It's very 60s.
You know, occasionally they do the sort of slight 60s thing as a
kind of callback to Star Trek, you know, the original series.
Everyone is closed from the 60s.
Whoever invited those tape invented those tables with the light in
the glass, yeah.
I mean, everyone looks so photogenic when they're sitting around
these tables.
Someone should mass market these.
Yeah, I think that the reason that we don't have tables like that
is that it would be massively funky uncomfortable to be trying to
eat your meal.
But you look amazing.
It's literally a story, right?
of that Kate O'Mara tells when she was in dynasty in the 80s that
they would go around with mirrors, reflecting light up their faces
whilst they were on set.
So they all look beautiful. lovely.
Yeah. coming in it, you know.
I love her delivery where this bit here where they start to talk
about the game.
I think that that's where things start to kick off, like they stop
being awkward and they start to talk more normally.
I mean, it's a bit distracting, though.
That woman's climaxing there in the background.
I think that they should be a little bit more unnerved by it.
But it's this moment, you know, where they kind of go, let's go
and find out.
We're giant science nerds, let's do it.
And I think that's pretty great.
Can I just say something for the glass on this table?
Don't do space glasses.
That's just the most ridiculous.
It looks like a fucking pipette, for God's sake.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But this is another one of these things where people sit down to a
meal and never have it. at the end of the scene.
It puts on the game.
And the music's starting to get more ominous now, isn't it?
You know, dun, dun, dun.
I think this is really clever as well.
So they have a program that mimics the human brain, so behaves
like the human brain, and so they're able to experiment on the
thing, and then they just talk about what the, you know, virtual
brain that they've created in the computer does.
And that seems smart and that seems, you know, future-y and
stuff.
Like it's tech technology that makes sense.
He says the serotonin Neville's are way off.
What's going on in the hippocampus?
A higher reasoning levels are reduced.
All that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's why that we know.
Okay, they've been brainwashed and it's a great feeling.
I like the body language between the 2 of them.
They lean into each other.
They smile.
It's just a little bit. good, isn't it?
Well, otherwise, this is just a functional, we're telling you what
this does, you know?
But the scene is also doing the them getting on together and
finding a project that they can work on together and it's where
they really start to hit it off. you know, like they've got a
thing to do together.
They're little science nerds.
They're not going to sit around making small talk.
What you just said there about, you know, there should be more
concerned, the 2nd scene in 10 forward when suddenly everyone's
wearing the headsets.
I think that's really well done.
She's there on her own.
And that interfering with back comes up to her going, oh, did you
forget your game?
Yeah, you can barrel mine.
You know, like, oh fuck off.
And they do a clever thing as well.
They mock up dummies.
So it looks like they're wearing the game.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought that bit of direction was fantastic.
So he puts the game down on the table just off camera.
Don't see it.
That's what he's around.
Yeah.
And then he turns back around at the end and picks up the game and
puts it on.
Puts it on.
So there's a little hint that he's already there, but it's not
explicit.
Because, I mean, the great thing about this is, of course, we saw
him unaffected, the last time we saw him, we never saw him given
the game by anyone.
We did see it all set up with Riker.
Um, you know, Troy and and and Bev, but we we never see him given
the game at all.
And he's the guy that you go to.
And Wesley comes away from that, feeling reassured that it's all
under control.
And then he puts the game on.
Just subtly different about Patrick Stewart's performance here.
We're not talking about the past anymore.
He's not smiling as much.
There's a sort of relaxed necessarily.
I don't know, it's very subtle, but it is definitely there.
Yeah, yeah.
And again, like he's just giving this dialogue that he was giving
before, like the, the, he's telling Picard the stuff that he found
out with Ashley Jard.
But again, that's not the focus of the episode.
It's not the information dump. what's going on between the 2
characters in each case.
See there, it's good to have you back again.
I do like somebody who's, you know, I keep saying possessed is not
quite possession.
Somebody who's been brainwashed, who still has their
characteristics.
Because the rule number one of television, you are somebody to be
possessed and they suddenly forget how to act.
Yeah, which... evil car, isn't it?
And it's absolutely a twilight zone scene, that one.
It's so perfectly done Do you think they should have done a
Twilight Zone ending then?
where one person at the end puts a headset on.
Still has the game.
No.
I mean, the thing about the Twilight Zone is it's an anthology
show, so it can do that more readily.
Or just that the danger's still there.
I don't know.
Yeah, that is kind of...
We've already established that O'Brien Evil is actually quite
menacing in power play, didn't we?
Yeah, that's true.
That is true.
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
We don't know who it is at this point, do we?
Like, we haven't heard him say it.
Irish accent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this is sort of slightly weird as well.
This is a bit, they feel tenfold with a lot of extras and
everybody is wearing a headset.
Everyone has the game.
Yeah, yeah, it's so we're okay.
Everything will be all right.
Oh, here she is.
Did you forget your game?
It's off, I think.
She is great.
Look how perturbed she looks.
Wesley goes, we're all right, thank you.
Yeah, she's minuscule too, that woman.
I think I'm getting a bit of an obsession with these extras that
have one or 2 lines.
It's pretty great. you know, that lady.
Yeah, she's true.
They're holding hands as they walk off. you notice that?
That's nice.
Yeah, they're a nice couple.
I agree.
Okay.
So pretty soon, it is just the 2 of them, isn't it?
Is that now?
I wouldn't reach that point.
I know, I think we've reached the point where it is now just the 2
of them, and then, of course, there's the big moment where it's
just the one of them, which is obviously where it has to go.
Wesley, what are you trying to do with those shoulder pads?
I'm curious.
They're really bad.
Well, it sort of structures his body in a very odd way.
Yeah, he's super skinny.
I mean, he is a very young man.
So we have this scene now to set up the solution in the climax.
Wes is working on data, but we don't see him repair all the neural
links.
Yeah, there's enough to know that it happens.
Yes, we can see him working sort of towards it, can't we?
Because he's going to be unaffected.
It is a surprise, though, because we have been following Wesley
pretty much ever since he came on board, and so to have things
happen that we don't see is a surprise to us.
But I think it, you know, you're absolutely allowed to do that.
I can't wait till we get to that bit.
The fact that there's massive threats at the Federation is foiled
by someone flashing a light in their faces.
It's so shit.
I love it.
Awesome, isn't it?
Oh, dear.
He's figuring it out now.
Come on, De La Forge. mother yeah, yeah.
And my mother's been being a weirdo.
Is that weird?
Those few little wires on data there.
Yeah, I reckon I could cut a wire on just about any computer and
ruin it.
Like, you know...
I definitely don't like it.
Yeah Yeah, the subtitle says eerie music playing.
On my 2nd watch this, because I did watch it twice.
It's so enjoyable.
Um, I was sort of wax a miracle about the music to you.
I actually think the music's only really great during the chase
scene.
It really ramps up during the chase.
Otherwise, they're doing the usual, you know, in and out of the
various acts.
Yeah, break.
Yeah, that's right.
We'll call it the season 5 Berman house style.
I really like that shot as well.
I think this guy, Corey Allen.
I think he does a really good job of the direction and stuff.
This is pure...
I love menacing.
Is Dr. Berry coming and going, Wesley, are you there?
I've got a lovely game for you and your girlfriend. brought
someone very large to make sure that you put it on.
Dr. Beverly, do not watch your son and his girlfriend having
multiple orgasms on the bed.
Slightly awkward, isn't it?
I mean, not explicitly say it is orgasms.
It's just the pleasure centres of the brain.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What else are they for?
Chocolate and orgasms as this episode makes it completely clear.
Yeah.
So he's not fooled by the by the captain, which is kind of good.
And this is nice.
He knows that they're on their own.
They've got a plan, and then she goes off to do her bit, and then
the next time we see her, she's already, They've got her and she's
already had the game.
They've got her.
And but does he say there's something I want to try?
Do we follow him from here on?
Or do we get a break so he can do the things?
Yeah, here we go.
Do you know what's funny, though, is about that soon, where he
walks into engineering, watch her in the background.
She's got her head lopsided like a zombie.
Yeah, yeah, she looks really weird.
Oh, it's really great.
Will you look up, please?
Just the way that...
Yeah, so here's a weird thing I admitted to you before, Atana.
No wonder I thought she was Titania.
You know, I didn't realise she was the same woman as the...
I rely on you to be the observational one in this, all right?
Yeah, for ages I didn't realise.
I have known for some time.
Do you know what I mean?
Like for quite some time.
But initially when I saw it, because I mean, obviously I've
watched these episodes of series 5 of Star Trek, the Next
Generation, any number of times.
She's come, just dressed, sort of hell in her skin type black
outfit.
Her hair's tied back now and she talks like an evil English
dominatrix.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's not the silly giggly thing that she was in the 1st episode.
So this particular type of possession makes you all stand around
like you're doing the series 5 publicity shot.
Like, everyone turns around the bridge.
Like, just so that everyone can type of, you know.
That's right.
But that's the effect it has.
That guy checked out his crotch.
I don't know what's happening.
Wesley walked past?
The guy wearing the game, checked his dick out.
And they just looked back up and actually, nothing wrong with
that.
Oh my God.
She steals the whole episode.
Wesley.
I'm on level 97.
Oh, 47.
Sorry.
47.
Yeah, yeah.
She gives, honestly, a Gower gives the best orgasm in the house.
She literally goes...
She's a little bit wasted, isn't she?
If she was on DS9, she would have had an arc and development and
all sorts.
Yeah.
Brian, take her with you.
I know.
She could be for she's little mate. couldn't she?
Oh, look, here we go.
Ashley Judd doing her best acting.
Come on.
But again, I know it's so funny.
He's a bit preoccupied.
He's already done a thing.
He's already done all of the things that he was going to do, but
he doesn't tell us what they are.
So he did that while they were talking to Atana on the bridge.
There she is.
We have to realise before he does that, she's possessed, though
don't we?
For the scene to work.
Yeah, but the fact that he's looking like that and goes, Robin, is
something wrong?
I cannot explain to you how exciting this sequence was when I was
a nipper and it still is now.
It's great, isn't it?
Brilliant low angle shots, tracking shots. they do it all We have
seen this before.
Like I seem to remember like Roger Dana and his fabulous hair
running around the Enterprise in the hunted.
Remember that?
Oh, and what's the one where Captain Picard goes, Ori, we had a
little bit of...
What's that one called?
Is that later than this though?
Starship Mine?
I think it might be later. seven, I think.
But, but this, I think, is really, really great.
Getting Wesley to do it.
So he gets to be like a proper action hero.
He runs.
He's super smart.
He sets up a thing so that you know, they're distracted.
Look at Marina looking evilly. in her chair.
It is awesome.
Have a chocolate love.
Okay, I'll give Gates a little bit of credit, right?
There is one moment where she looks concerned for Wesley in the
middle of her sort of blankfaced evilness.
Look at that angle of the car.
That looks really great, doesn't it?
It's sort of a fish eye lens.
Like, yeah. you know, like it's an odd shot.
Again, I think it's just making the ship slightly more menacing.
There's a wonderful bit in a minute where he comes out of a lift
and then goes around the corner into the dark and people go past
and the music's proper twilight zone at that point.
But my favourite is where it goes, deck 27.
He there.
And then the next shot is Wesley, jumping down into the Jeffrey
Stoop.
It's good, isn't it?
It's a good edit.
It's exciting this bit.
Did you know he's the trumpets?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, when he's at the door doing the controls, like, as if
that's the way to make them.
Oh, please open.
Come on, come on.
The trumpet is going. dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.
I was like, my God, they're really going for it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Here we go.
It's coming in a second.
Okay, so we're looking for him.
It's a truly...
Oh look, Paul Leffler still looking evil there in the reflection.
Again, that's sort of a good shot with all of their faces visible
in the panel.
Inexperienced actress doing possession there, maybe.
Yeah, probably.
Although the slightly lolling head in the in that previous scene
was pretty great.
Watch this tracking shot through the Jefferies tube.
It is great.
I love it Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It makes him seem like he's going fast, even though he's just
crawling down. mean, it's only.
It's not short.
I mean, look behind Wolf.
They're trying to suggest it goes way back into the distance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. not very long, is Wharf trying to tear the doors
open.
Where's this at the controls?
The trumpets are sounding.
My God, there's amazing wins.
Yeah, that's right.
He does think if he uses both hands on the on the thing.
There we go And I really felt this short, looking through the
grating of them dragging him off.
Very scary as a kid.
Yeah, it's good.
It's probably good It's like they're really playing it for real
the stupid fucking premise.
It's wonderful, isn't it?
Well, imagine they went home and went, how did I score this job?
Like, I've been play acting shit all day.
He's doing such a good job and she's great.
That smile from...
Wesley.
Play the game.
Picard's grinning at him like a lunatic.
Where's like, Will's absolutely going for it as well?
Like he's properly selling the struggle.
He's doing a really good job.
This is kind of hard, though, isn't it?
When they hold open his eyes.
Yeah.
We're getting sort of clockwork orange thing from that, are we?
Can we just for a 2nd though, please, um, acknowledge, uh, uh
Titania.
Otherwise known as Etanas.
Etana.
Grand plan to bring the game to the Federation and take over all
of Starfleet with this thing.
See, that's the, I think that that's really great, right?
And I'll tell you why, because we get a sense of the kind of not
geopolitics, but galactic politics, a little bit from this show
and then very clearly from Deep Space 9, which creates this
picture of a galaxy where there's different empires and stuff, and
that there's war and that you wage war.
And so the idea that you could take over the federation with some
ridiculous high concept, thing like this seems now in retrospect
absolutely absurd.
But it's wonderful that this version of Star Trek is a version of
Star Trek where that's a possibility.
You know, that what's at stake is the entire federation might be
taken over by these dumb Walkmans or whatever, by the Apple. is
that you get an actor of the calibre of Patrick Stewart to say the
line as well.
I mean, what's going on?
And I did send you a message going, well, thank God.
The latest hideous threat to the Federation was averted because
data flashed a light.
Jesus Christ.
This is so funny though. the sort of the tiny little ship against
the enterprise.
Of course, when they were all possessed, It wasn't a problem.
No, well exactly.
She's very cross.
Explain yourself, Picard.
Picard basically goes, no, no, no, no, no.
Did you notice her eyes as well?
She has like goat's eyes, like weird shaped pupils.
The pre-title sequence, that close-up of her saying, it's a game.
They look beautiful, her contact. they're amazing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There they are.
I just can't help thinking how awkward they would be.
Marina's literally there going, man, no man, I'm really phoning in
this week.
Still getting my paycheque.
She's like, am I going to get a line anywhere?
No?
Okay.
Not in this.
No, no.
You had your scene, Marina.
You're contractually mandated scene and that's all you get.
Just stand around and look at the other people.
There are a handful of episodes she's not in at all, you know.
Yeah, 0 yeah, no, I know.
I know.
Well, that's that crisis averted then, Nathan?
That is.
Everything's fine, I think. laying a horse.
What a shame.
I know.
Maybe I would.
Actually, no, do you know what?
I think I would have liked a scene, just after the at the end, per
scene, on Starfleet headquarters, you know, of someone sitting and
going into their office and then putting on the game, you know
you'll be unsurprised to learn, I think, that Mariner plays it at
some point.
She's addicted, I think.
Well, I think it's just a thing now.
Everyone knows about the game.
Do you know what I mean?
That's a proper kiss.
I'm sorry.
Kisses in Star Trek are so chased normally.
That was an actual, I'm going to press my face against yours.
And so this is actually Judd's 1st on the screen kiss and Will
Wheaton does occasionally mention it.
Bless him.
Oh, the hog is gorgeous.
I do too.
I think the hug is really good and I think the kiss on the cheek
when he leaves is also really nice.
But he's doing there, what I do to my mock. nuzzling his face into
her neck and that. tender and lovely.
Yeah.
It's really good.
I kind of believe him, you know.
It would have been nice to see her again.
Well, and that's why I think that this is a good potential ending
and I guess if they're setting up the 1st duty, then this, you
know, the great thing that 1st duty does is a bit of a gut punch
given where we left him, which was having fun at the academy.
He's, you know, had his 1st love.
It's working really well.
We like her.
You know, he even gets to add to her laws.
It just looks like the shittiest fucking desk calendar. doesn't
it?
Like that... doing close-ups on the tech, right?
Tech agent.
It's not even tech.
It's like it's literally like a desk calendar.
It's a bag.
Like under perspect.
Oh, look at that wall behind you.
It looks so thin, doesn't it?
It's very lavish.
It's like an expensive hotel.
Oh my gosh.
H 14, I mean, I was so jealous of Ashley Judd.
Wesley, press your lips against my chin, please.
That was so wonderful.
I think there's a subset of TNG episodes right.
The wacky premise, but really fun.
Now, there are wacky premises like Genesis.
I didn't think that was very funny, Vama.
I know you did.
But I'm putting disaster in there.
I'm putting Rascals in there. in its better moments.
A fist full of daters.
You know, that sort of thing.
And they don't, maybe like they do 2 a year or something like that
you know.
But that whilst they're probably not the best episodes of those
years.
They're some of my favourites.
They're some of the most fun.
And I absolutely have to think, and you know, like it's now
impossible after years of, you know, whatever it is that we've
been through.
It's impossible to imagine what it's like to be someone who was
vaguely interested in Star Trek or watched a few episodes when it
was on in the 80s and 90s.
But that has to be one of the episodes that people remember, don't
you think?
Like the game like this episode again and again.
Oh, I did too.
I did too.
But you have to think that that high concept thing, like that's
what people just normies thought Star Trek was like, and, you know
unfortunately they weren't always right, but it is, I think, you
know, like seriously properly topped tier.
I think, you know, last week we talked a little bit about Star
Trek fans and science fiction fans, kind of weird relationship
with the Ridiculous.
Um, and, you know, when people say, oh, you know, what's the best
episode, it's like very serious things, you know, very serious and
important and gritty things, but I think that this is easily one
of the best episodes, because it's so good, it's so well told, it's
fun and funny. you know, it plays on what's great about the
characters, it gives Wesley a lovely ending.
Surely the purpose of television is too diverse to entertain
right?
Sorry, it shouldn't be worthy.
It shouldn't be dictatorial.
It should be something that's a pleasure to watch I think it
should sometimes be worthy.
And I think sometimes it should tell you things and sometimes it
should make a and sometimes it should make you feel sad or
whatever or make you cry.
All of those things...
Say, get off your phones, everybody, you know, and have lovely
romances instead. exactly.
That's right.
I mean, this is a few weeks after Darmok, I think, or very soon
after Darmok.
You know, and Darmok is brilliant and, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But again, disaster is another high concept one that I think
everyone at home remembers because, you know, I'll tell you, I
tell you a single line of tedious techna bubble in Star Trek in
the next generation.
However, I can quote Push Geiko.
Push.
I'm trying.
I am pushing.
He's my number one dad in Rascals.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And half, you know?
relish every bite, you know.
So good.
So much fun.
Explain yourself, Picard, you know.
What we're saying is, you know, less speech is more camp.
Yeah, more fun.
More fun.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
work out where we're going next.
We've had a good couple of episodes, so I think it's probably my
turn to come along and ruin it.
I'm not going to pick Enterprise, though.
Good.
I've been looking at the ones that we are low in coverage of.
Now, could I ask you a question about that, though?
Well, because you, well, you say it's low in coverage, low in
percentage, but like the percentage of a show where there's 50
episodes and the percentage of a show where there's 179 episodes
doesn't that throw that out a bit?
No, but the thing is, right?
At the moment we are just about, we're at the point where we've
done about a 6th of the existing Star Trek episodes.
We do the work, so you don't have to.
We do.
But what ends up happening is, unless we stay at a roundabout that
percentage on all of the shows, regardless of their length, at
some point we run out of some shows.
Right.
Yeah.
So the percentage is an important metric.
We need to stay near the percentage.
Now, there are still some shows that are below that percentage, and
one of the reasons that I keep choosing enterprises, that's one of
those.
And in fact, Star Trek the Next Generation is two.
You going to put them all in then, all the low ones?
No, I think that I want to do one that we haven't done for a bit.
Uh, and so we're going to do a Star Trek discovery episode.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so I am going to press the button.
Season 2, episode 13, Such sweet sorrow.
We just say we wanted to do season two, didn't we?
Now, the thing is that such sweet sorrow is a two-parter.
Ah.
So it's the finale.
Oh boy, is the 1st half that one where they're all saying they
love each other?
It is...
Oh, please, can we do it, please?
Yeah, well, maybe.
I, like, I don't know, like, I just have it, so it is, so it is a
two-parter.
So it's such sweet sorrow and such sweet sorrow, part two, and
they were released a week apart.
So it's the big two part finale.
I have very, very strong memories of being extremely angry for
most of it.
Um, and I'll talk to you about why when that happens.
I mean, jamma makes that sound enticing.
Listen to this, an hour of extreme earnestness featuring grand
gestures of selflessness, last minute family reunions, naked
sentimentality, and lots of tearful goodbyes.
I mean, they really laid it on thick here.
That sounds delightful.
Yeah, it's a little bit much, I actually think.
And if you're saying that, because you can take a lot of, a lot of
that.
Yeah.
So I have this theory, you know, like, and I'll talk about it next
week.
Obviously that part of the problem is that they discover that they
have a really great lead actor.
Uh, and so they make her do emoting because she does it really
incredibly well, but I think it undermines the character a little
bit and that it becomes a little bit mawkish.
And you remember how relieved we were when we got to the future
and she started to have fun sometimes, you know, that it wasn't
always so terrible.
And because they gave her that dreadful, horrific backstory about
you know, her mother being repeatedly assaulted by Klingons while
she was in the other room, which is just too much, like yark.
Um, it all became a little bit March.
Remember in series 3, episode one, when she was on all that
cocaine or whatever she was on?
I'm having a great time.
Just laughing her head before the entire, well, more of this
place.
I mean, I know it means we don't get to press the button too much
but we haven't, this is a new furrow for us to plough.
Yeah, that's true.
That is true.
And I'm up for doing a two-parter.
And, you know, I'd like quite, I don't even remember how this
season ends.
So it'll be sort of new to me.
It is kind of a bit new.
So we did do series 2, episode 8 if memory serves, which was
really quite boring.
But that's the only one that we've done this season.
So it's parts 13 and 14 backwards.
Give us a chance to talk about the, you know, the beginnings of
Strange New Worlds as well.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
It's got some of the cars from Strange New Worlds in it.
So that's kind of fun as well.
So, you know, it's too long episodes, but there's a lot of talking
points.
Yeah, all right.
I think we'll do it.
I just want to hear you be angry at Discovery. all.
I love discovery, but I was really angry.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artworkers by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 4th of March, 2025, and released
on the 14th of March.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Discovery, Such Sweet Sorrow
and Such Sweet Sorrow, part two.
Okay, this is gonna be fun.
Fucking hell.
Gates book faden's possessed acting.
Yeah, Jesus Christ.
She's like this.
I'm trying to find a scene.
So, 4 shades of green.
I've got a choice between the hug, which is just because they're
not facing one under their faces aren't in it, but it's tandy
hugging Rutherford, which is kind of nice.
But there's also a really great picture of Tandy in the foreground
looking at the camera and then 2 of the Blue Orians behind her.
Do you know what I mean?
And she just seems like she owns a thing, like, which I think I'm
probably going to go with.
I do love the hug.
But yeah, that...
Yeah, I love the hug too.
But the other, the other one is actually a pretty good, like an it
spoil, for sure.
This one.
Well, so this one, it was difficult getting a picture with Will
and Ashley's face is in the same shot.
Can't you just have?
No, it's like out, having an orgasm in the turbo lift.
That's another option.
You know, I feel like that.
We talk about that scene so much.
Just her.
It's a little bit like how the only possible picture for quality
of life was the Geordie saying, yes, Drake meme, you know, like
the, you know, even though it doesn't have an XO comp in it, some
things are just inevitable.
Yeah.
I always want to not choose the one that they have on memory alpha
that's super important, but otherwise.
Oh, I figure.
And due consideration is always given to the image.
Yep, I go through and watch it and take a whole bunch of snaps.
It's like startling Barbara Bane where I just write lots of time
stamps when I'm watching it.
It's like, oh, she's got a great facial expression here.
Oh, there's Barbara there pulling a face.
No, I've just looked.
Yeah.
And the opening run of this season is fucking normal.
Ensign Rowe, disaster, the game.
I mean, I think unification's a bit flawed, but it's still
memorable.
Silicon Avatar in that?
Yeah, Silicon Avatar as well.
It's the 2nd half of the season that sort of, you get, yeah, new
ground, which is that bore, matter of time, which I thought was
all right, but it was, it wasn't as great. violation, spit
problematic, masterpiece society, power play.
We weren't that, we thought it was all right, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's okay.
So, like, the opening run is...
It must be the beginning.
Yeah the opening run.
Oh, the last run is pretty good as well.
Cause and Effect is great.
First duties after that.
Cost of living is after that.
That's pretty good.
Oh, Mr. Wolf.
Again, Star Trek being ridiculous, you know, fun way.
It's a good time for Trek. is a good time for Trek.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
Should we do it?
What do you think?
It's not just, you know, in Voyager, when they're trying to
recapture the magic that happened here.
Yeah.
It's not just, I don't know, you can't just copy the ideas, right?
Like something happened here that was... that just merged.
I know it took ages to get there and they kind of forgot how to do
it at the end.
But I don't think Voyager was ever gonna...
The ingredients just aren't there.
Yeah, but I don't know what it is.
Like, what's wrong with it because it's got, like, I think part of
the thing, the appeal about Star Trek, the next generation to
normies.
Like the thing that means that ordinary people were watching it
was that everyone knew about Star Trek because it was a thing, you
know, and there were movies and stuff.
So everyone kind of knew it existed.
And now here was new Star Trek for the sort of 80s and 90s.
And it had a really thin premise.
Like it had, it's, we're on board the Enterprise going from planet
to planet.
There was nothing.
Do you know what I mean?
But Voyager has a more complicated premise, which takes all sorts
of stuff from both Deep Space 9 and Next Generation.
Maybe that's it as well, but does neither of them justice?
No, but, but, and also the characters are more, like they're, like
their higher concept, aren't they?
Like the characters are more high concept.
And I guess I guess what they don't realise is that it's the
actors are not the characters.
You know, the latest set of characters.
The chemistry just isn't the same.
There is chemistry there in Voyager, but it ain't like this.
No, but there's a great set of actors on Voyager.
Like, Voyager doesn't have a terrible cruise.
Yeah, like I don't think much of the worst Robert, and the medium
Robert kind of stops, like, checks out at some point.
But like Medium Roberts, okay.
Yeah, Garrett's all right.
Um, but but you've got Tim Ross, you've got Ethan Phillips, you've
got Kate, you've got, you know, like, like, it's, it's not, I
don't know.
I mean, I suppose DS not made this mull, right?
Picardo, the pushing away from all this completely and just doing
its own thing.
But also as well, I think with GS9, they just found a superbly
good cast.
Like, yeah.
Better than this cast, I think.
Yeah, yeah, probably.
Probably.
I mean, these, you know.
Yeah, well, yeah, I think certainly.
But I love these guys.
Like, I love these cast and it is...
It's the chemistry.
I think it's a charisma, I think.
Like the chemistry and the charisma of the actors, I think, you
know, like even if the characters are super thin.
But and doing a procedural where where, you know, you have a
little bit of character stuff, but it's not the focus and that's
not what, um, Deep Space 9 goes for because it's not really a
procedural at all in the same way.
But they did it 1st as well, didn't they, next gen?
Again, they took it a while to get the formula right.
And to get the confidence, right?
But they did it first. and then every show that copied this
afterwards.
It always just feels like a pale imitation.
Yeah, yeah.
They did 179 episodes.
They basically did every possible shitty high concept you could
possibly ever do, you know?
But, I mean, then the next time that gets it right is strange new
worlds, I think, don't you think?
But Strangely Wells, it's both the chemistry, the actors and the
characters.
So it's different again, I think.
It is, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's a Star Trek show, like in the same way.
Like, I think, you know, like, it's kind of like, let's remake
Star Trek, and the show that succeeds at that best is Strangely
Worlds, I think, you know, um, Star Trek, like we said last week
is slightly embarrassed Star Trek, the Next Generation, it doesn't
want to be ridiculous, and it's a bit embarrassed by a lot of Star
Trek, but Star Trek, like Stration Worlds doesn't feel like that.
When they let their hair down.
It's so great.
Yeah, yeah.
What if I rather watch the game or the masterpiece society?
It's the game.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah for sure.
All right. what do you reckon?
Should we do it?
Okay.
Hey, Joe. Hi.