Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this week, we're on the planet Tar Gallus 9 with the crew of
the Cerritos.
It's series 5, episode two, Shades of Green.
Now, you are very keen to do a series 5 episode, I think.
I was.
Todd Carlos nine. that right?
It's a really great Star Trek, the Next Generation planet name
isn't it?
It's absolutely perfect. nailed it.
Your attention to detail on this podcast with technology, planets
and spaceships.
Honestly, you are salute you.
I'm never going to have told you that in a 1000000 years.
Yeah, I did want to do 5 because I've not touched it at all.
I was intrigued to see where all the characters were after four
and I do have a few questions for you, actually, because things
have changed a bit.
Yeah, so I did rewatch the series 4 finale and I had recently
rewatched episode one and this one as it happened.
Um, and like, I think this is really kind of great.
So you've got what, 3 plots?
You've got the main plot, the one the episode's named after, which
is about Tendi being a pirate and her sister to Erica.
And that's a sort of fun sitcom plot and a chase and all of that
sort of thing, which is terrifically good.
You've got the plot on the planet where Boimler and Mariner are
trying to do command, which is really terrific.
And one of the things that the show starts doing, you know, they're
both junior grade, lieutenants now, and so they have to deal with
sort of low-level leadership positions, which is really fun and
give some new things to do.
Me to theme you down a combat, boy, ma.
Why do you keep sharing a combat?
So good.
It's so good.
And then just the sweetest plant, which is to Lynn and...
That was the best plot.
The payoff for that is just one.
It's so good.
I mean, I loved Tandy as a character, but my 2nd favourite
character is Rutherford.
And it's just because the 2 of them are so it's so sweet and so
innocent and so enthusiastic and positive about everything.
I think when Tendi turns up at the end of the episode, Mariner
calls her a big green ball of optimism or something.
And she is that.
And I just think she's wonderful.
She is so great.
One of my favourite ever Star Trek characters.
When they're reunited at the end, it's like, what you've been
doing?
And she literally throws aside everything that's happened in this
episode by going, what is it, oh, just some Orion warrior stuff
you know, like, yeah, never mind that. come here.
I nearly teared up at that bit at the end and I can't guarantee
that I won't this time.
I mean, you have cried at a lower decks before, you know?
I probably have.
You're much more emotional when watching TV than I am.
I'm a heart bitch, especially watching Star Trek.
I'm going to downgrade this slightly from Great to Good, because I
think there are great, great episodes of Lower Decks, and I did
really enjoy watching this, but I will send you a message and I
went, like, this is as close to sort of like a normal Star Trek
episode as I think I've ever watched with Lower Decks.
Like it's still silly and there's still funny moments, but I
wasn't sort of getting the belly laugh.
So what was the last one we did mathematically?
Redemptive?
mathematically perfect.
Come on.
That was absolutely ridiculous with exacom bird sex things and all
sorts going on in that.
But it sort of ditches the belly laughs for heart.
And I love that in Lower Decks as well because they're all really
lovely characters.
And so whilst I was sort of like going along the episode and this
is very amiable, this is very enjoyable.
I like hanging out with these people, it wasn't really until the
last 5 minutes where every plot was being paid off in a really
nice way.
Oh yeah, what's it called?
Boimler's, uh, laws...
Boimless, boy.
You know, when boimless pointers pays off and when the
shuttlecraft repairs pays off.
And I was like, okay, yeah, this is all led somewhere amazing, this
absolutely was not a waste of my time.
And I'm feeling something.
I just think there's a standard to lower decks that is always
entertaining.
You know, whether it's fantastic or good or okay.
It's always a good watch Yeah, yeah, I think it's superb.
It makes me really happy.
There was an announcement today that Strangely World Series 4 has
started production and we're waiting for series 3 to come sort of
reasonably soon.
And I love that.
They want to keep churning something out, don't they?
everything else is on hitting the stop button.
Yeah, yeah.
So and Starfleet Academy's coming at some point next year.
But this was great.
You know, like really one of the great things about this new era
of Star Trek is lower deck.
It's magic.
Just so good.
And, you know, as stands of 90s strike, and we are, as much as we
rip it, it's a seminal part of our childhood.
Oh, you know, hugely important. you know, you watch TNG at a
really important time.
I watched DS9 at a really important time.
We all endured Voyager at a certain time.
But and so just every one of the gags in this, which is tying back
to that.
Walking that fine galaxy quest line between taking the piss
outright and just loving the fact that night trek was so fucking
absurd at times.
They just captured lightning in a bottle with this show, didn't
they?
I think.
They really did.
It's really great.
Well, what do you think?
Should we go in?
I'd love to.
Yes, please.
Watching lower decks of viewing in the morning.
What a treat.
Brilliant.
All right.
I will count as in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Ta da, da, da.
Keep an eye out for the koala in the eye.
There it is in the clouds.
Yeah, yeah, in the clouds, in the eye, that koala that the guy
sees when he ascends to become a higher being or doesn't quite do
that in an early season.
Here we go.
It's just like, you know that idea?
Yeah, it's a total reminder that we're just in a different world
tonight, is Trek, isn't it?
Just straight away.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So this is, oh, okay.
So this is, we're establishing Tandy and um, De Erika, and we're
also establishing the Blue Orians from last week.
Why have they got that stupid hair?
The blue ones.
I don't know because they don't in the animated series.
So they, in an episode of the animated series, Jesus Christ, that's
right.
This is a simulation, isn't it?
And she's dropped a slug role on it.
That's an enormous slug role crushes a man outright in the
hologram.
Because it was on a table.
So, oh, and of course she's eating slug rolls because she's
pregnant, she's eating for two, and so she's eating a lot and
she's kind of, yeah, yeah, it's very cute.
And they're doing sort of sister stuff.
I realise, though, she looks quite ill because, you know, she's
light green.
But Tendee's kind of hot, isn't she?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's adorable.
I love that little hair with the shaved sides and stuff.
She's got a little bit hairstyle.
I think like, what's her name from... sort of car.
Yeah, like Erica.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, why is she here?
And not on the ship.
Abby, that's a good question.
At the end of series four, they come to De Erica, and they get
they agree to do a sort of competition, like a, a sort of
traditional pirate battle.
And if they win, she helps them by giving them a cruiser, they
need to go and save Mariner, who has been captured by Nick
Locano.
No, because of course he has.
It's the worst, Robert back.
That's right.
And then she loses.
They lose.
She actually gets Dr. Miglimo to fight the biggest, scariest
female Orion called Beth, who has an allergy to birds.
Oh did you see this?
Did you notice this?
An enormous hand grabbing the ball cube in the title sequence.
I think it's who mourns for Adonise, but I could be wrong, has the
green hand that grabs the enterprise.
They've also...
I know.
But they've also added a folian web to that shot.
And at the very end, Vja comes in and makes a big noise as well.
I always forget that that alien is sucking the arse of the
cereos.
It's a lovely pad across your face.
Oh, isn't it, Prissy?
Oh, wait, hang on.
There it is.
Shades of green.
They love having a bit of fun with the titles, don't they?
I still think we'll always have Tom Paris's absolute genius.
So this is brilliant.
Can I just say this is absolutely brilliant because we know that
this happens, right?
Well, we never go to that.
And so we get to see it.
And it's literally they're burning money.
They're pulling down all the... no money, no problem.
And the great thing is that rich people, which is true, hate
everyone else and are not happy unless everyone else is suffering
in comparison.
She did not.
Yeah, yeah.
They're really shitted that everyone is happy and no one wants for
anything.
You know, poverty, misery want has all been solved.
And it's just so great.
Like, it is so funny.
Like here they're talking about cleaning out the the stock
exchange and turning it into an animal hospital and how it smells
actually a bit better than it did when it was the floor of the
stock exchange.
They're literally carrying huge treasure chests of money about the
base.
Yeah, they're going to throw that out.
They're going to put that through the matter reclamation thing. and
just turn it into stuff for the replicated because none of it
matters anymore. talk, please.
Hit the air in a heartbeat.
I'll take you off your hat.
In fact, in fact, it is those palettes of money that saves the day
isn't it, that actually fixes the pirate plot, the main plot.
But it's just so refreshing in animation because usually we just
warp away going, well, we've left them a much happier planet, you
know, like, finally, we get to see the mop up afterwards.
Yeah, yeah, because this is the Cerritos, the 2nd contact people
you know.
Um, so, so, so what happened is that, um, that she, she was going
to get, like, Erica was going to claim the Cerritos, uh, because
of that, the, you know, the, the fight, and, uh, and instead, uh
Delvana goes, sorry, Devana goes and and, you know, becomes a
pirate.
And last week was all sort of her doing fabulous piracy staff as
mistress of the winter constellations, which is her title.
Yeah, so this is her discovery to Erica's part.
This week is that she's pregnant and she's about to go on
dangerous missions and so Tendi is trying to stop her in any way
she can't without actually just saying, look, you're pregnant, all
right?
Don't do it.
Yeah, it's wonderful.
And it is absolutely just a sitcom plot, isn't it?
It's a silly, funny sitcom plot.
It's wonderful But, like, the jokes, this was one thing where I
was going, okay, yeah, this is nice, but this isn't that funny.
She's like, although, you know, what are you doing in there?
I was looking for a dagger.
There's a dagger in every room.
Oh, yeah, see me.
You know, I was like, that's all right, but that's not hilarious.
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, it's cute though. is cute.
So they've been summoned before the Orion Pirate Queen, because
they were fighting the Blue Orions, who are from, they're from a
the animated series episode called The Pirates of Orion.
Oh, you did some research. didn't you?
I watched it.
It's terrible.
And they do look like this.
They're blue because there was some difficulty with the colouring
in the animation, and no one in the crew knows how to say Orion
even though they said it in the original series.
And so everyone calls them Orions.
And so in this version of the show, like in order to, you know, fix
the, uh, the era, they make the Orions say it wrong and they make
Tendee comment on how they pronounce it differently.
Have you noticed, you know, how last week's episode, the haunting
of deck 12 and this week's episode had sequences of doors open and
closing at an alarming rate.
I did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, jumping out straight away afterwards.
I mean, the payoff to that's great because it's the Vulcan woman
at the start and then obviously it's 10 D at the end.
Right, please, I know you've done some research.
Put me out of my misery.
Who is this Orion woman, the queen?
Um, you actually are familiar with the sound of her voice.
She is Lisa Cusack, from the sound of her voice.
Ah, oh, that's a great voice.
Oh, she's a bit older now, obviously. a couple of decades later.
That was, yeah, a couple of decades later.
I do love that fucking bat thing that makes that noise, which is
just like an absolutely random laugh line.
It's very strange.
But yeah, yeah, so that's her.
And she has been in it before.
I think I did a Star Trek before, you know. was just a voice then
as well.
Yeah.
Well, I think she might be a voice actor because she does do a few
episodes of lower death.
It was a spandout voice, though, because the 2nd I heard it, my
ears pricked, and I was like, who is that?
It looks very much like a sort of big deal character as well, just
the look of her.
Do you know what I mean?
She's an older woman with gray hair.
She's the queen, you get someone important to do it.
You have fabulous sort of white quiff.
I was getting Ursula, the sea witch vibes.
Yeah, it was a bit too.
Oh, I love how they can just go outside and give these planets a
bloody landscape.
It's so nice.
Yeah, yeah. wonderful.
Sound of a voice.
Oh, that's a banger, that is.
Yeah.
It's a great It's really good.
And Lisa is incredible in it.
Like, that's a proper standout, Gary.
I was with you, though.
I figured that character was going to have a big role in this
episode.
And actually, she's just there to start it off and then comes back
to criticise their solution at the end.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, to take all of their stuff off both houses because they have
a tie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's also, but it's a tie.
I'm Starfleet.
It's a tie.
We both win.
Everybody wins.
You know, it's a perfect Starfleet solution.
So the Tagarians are burning money.
Garians really love burning up their trash money.
Oh, what does this whole t-shirt say, no money, no?
I can't see the bottom.
No problems.
No, yeah, yeah.
No cash accepted is her t-shirt and his is no money, no problem.
See, I did like this because I've learned this lesson that Boimler
learns here as a sort of middle manager, which is what he is now.
It's like, you know, you try and be funny and Quippy, and that
don't quite pay off.
They all think you're a bit of a geek.
So then you try and sort of loosen the reins a little bit and let
them have fun.
And they always, you give them an inch, they take a mile.
He's got to learn that.
You do, sharing a combat.
So the other thing is he's growing a moustache.
And the reason he's growing a moustache is in last week's
episode.
We met a version of the Cerritos from a parallel universe where, um
he, this poem, is the captain, is captaining, you know, he's, he
well, they gay?
No, no, they weren't able, they weren't gay.
Mariner was the captain of the Cerritos and everyone was very
evasive when Freeman asked what had happened to her in that
universe.
And we turn out she's on Starbase 80 I think.
And, and, and, thank God, look at those slippers.
She's trying to get.
I don't think wonderful at me.
The little dog, the little dog that's dressed up in our logo and
on the original Trek episode, like it's a little dog with the... with
the horn on the...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. isn't it?
Did she just say made the best Orion win?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's got no faith in her kids whatsoever, is she?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, it's so great.
And you are right.
I was definitely getting Bajoran lightship vibes as the ship's
gracefully sailed through the star. wonderful.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's beautiful.
It gives us sort of some really pretty visuals and makes it more
interesting than just a normal ship and it gets us to go in the
riggings and stuff and they're pirates after all.
So they get to go in the riggings of a ship.
You know, this looks like a sheep, a pirate sheep.
Can I, can I say, confess something that I absolutely adore about
lower decks, right?
is the length of the episodes.
Yeah.
I think 25 or 24 minutes, whatever it is.
I never, ever, like, every time I do a 45 minute Star Trek episode
watching that UTSB.
Once, I'll press my phone or whatever and see how long it has left
to go.
I never do it with lower decks because I just know it's going to
be over with.
Very, very quickly.
Yeah, whereas this is the same length as the Pirates of Orion
which I watched in preparation, and that was internal.
Every animated series, episodes.
Every sort of 25 seconds I press to see how long it's got to go.
Although, I have to say that the blue Orions in that did look
better.
Like, they still wear the stupid outfits that they wear here, but
they're much more comic here, and they do look a bit more menacing
in the animated series episode.
The Vulcan woman then?
Has she always been in in the show?
I can't remember.
No, so there's an episode called Wedge George early on, I think, in
series 2, where we see Lower Deck as on a Klingon ship. and a
Vulcan ship, uh, and our ship, and I think there might be lower
deckers on a Borg ship later on.
It's called 3 ships in Klingon.
And that introduces to Lynn, it introduces another Klingon
character who comes back later.
And then Talin, who is too emotional and too out of control, uh, is
seconded to the, um, to this Retos and is has been like a semi
regular.
So Boiler's growing a beard, and throughout series 5, he grows a
beard, and by the end of it, he has a proper beard.
Oh, it's like a mushy one right now, isn't it?
No, it's an ongoing joke about how shit he's beard is and how long
it takes him to grow.
It takes him the whole season to grow it.
Look, that's like a joy potato. bum fluff, isn't it, when it's at
that stage?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. does make fun of it.
What I really loved about the Vulcan plot in this.
Yeah, it's that thing they try and do retrievok and Neelix all the
time and 9.5 times out of it.
They fail.
They will set up a situation and then Tuvok will subvert
expectations at the end and it's supposed to be really moving and
they do it here in 3 scenes and it's really moving.
It's really good.
She's a great character too, Tilly.
She's really funny because she makes jokes occasionally, like
unexpectedly makes jokes.
And I mean, what happens here is she learns that, you know, their
relationship, like spending time working on a thing together is
more important than the, than the outcome.
And so she trashes the support.
The joke is right.
They can work on it.
She could have just dented out a bit.
She literally...
And when they're coming in, she's literally bashing it tobacco.
Like, you get the payoff for the joke because it's so over the top
as well. is doubly funny.
And of course, you know her.
She's Valencia from, um, uh, crazy ex, from crazy ex-girlfriend.
No, is he?
Yeah, Gabrielle Rue is, is, is to Lynn.
You know, I do sexy yoga.
Oh my God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That's another great turn.
They're attracting some good people.
So, this is not a mutiny.
It's a cutany.
They've just a grow line.
Next time, I'll come on your other podcast.
I'm going to stage your cuteny. right?
Cutiny.
Yeah, yeah.
So I really like this.
So the rich people are really annoyed because they don't want to
lose all of their power because everyone else doesn't, they can't
laud it over anyone anymore.
Well, those robots that look like teardrops.
I'm getting a Caprica vine. from them?
Do you remember Caprica?
Did you ever watch?
The spinoff from Battlestar Galactica.
So they're they're sort of domestic robots.
They don't like bowl pins that flow.
Yeah, they do.
They do.
They're really great.
And so this guy is excellent.
Who's the gardener?
Have you got a pointer for this?
But he says, I do, but I'm not gonna say it now.
I did, I love the payoff of that when the, the, his subordinates
come along at the end and say, we survived because of a boy now.
The 1st the 1st pointer that he says, the one when you arrive on a
planet, investigate the fauna at Fauna and Flora.
You never know, like it might save his 1st pointer.
Yeah, exactly.
It's so cute, isn't it?
It's a very tandy thing as well because Tandy kind of overdoes
it.
Like she's ove- enthusiastic.
And like the reveal here that everyone else on the ship knows that
she's pregnant, but she just couldn't tell Tandy.
And initially you think it's because she knows that Tandy's crazy
and would, you know, stop her, but it's because it would mean that
Tandy was never able to go back to, um, the, you know, go back to
the Cerritos, go back to Starfleet. and the pressure is wanted to
sort of come to the conclusion, you know, a drawer is not how we
do things around here.
Perhaps you'll take your diplomacy back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, there's that too.
We're pirates, okay?
we murder people I've got to say, no, do you remember when we
watched Minefield, right?
And we watched an interminable amount of scenes leading up to a
situation of extreme peril where they finally get to reveal their
true feelings?
Actually, they didn't.
It was just very dull.
Well, they do it here in free scenes, you know?
Exactly the same.
They've set up the situation.
We know there's something to talk about.
It's, of course, at the moment of extreme jeopardy in the episode
and yet it's so economic and it's so quick and it makes it a point
a 1000000 times better than the show that did it in 45 minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
So now, of course, the 2 ensigns are dead.
Uh, they've been locked up and they're dead, the Tellerite guy and
uh, the other guy.
Those rocks have alarmingly looked like breakfast cereal, you
know.
I, yeah, there was a big one that looked like a potato earlier, but
again, the visuals are just so great.
You know, like it's, let's fly through a thing.
The visuals are as good as anything.
Like, you know, um, they're inventive, they're better than
anything that you would see on an actual 90 strike episode.
I watched, admissively, much more lower budget, Doctor Who
animation last week, and then I watched this, and I'll tell you
what, it's a bit more fluid.
Yeah, yeah.
People move.
Yes, exactly.
The Doctor Who one was like, you know, flipping a page.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. kind of terrible isn't it?
So this is the big, you know, this is the big thing, isn't it?
You know, this is the big, they have a personal kind of revelation
and now we're going to get back to solving the problem and look at
them being fabulous and obviously tendies now completely on
board.
Oh, and she's taken over because she can beat it and here we go.
I am going to say again, I am used to this show being joke, joke
joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. they're not really doing that.
Yeah, this is action.
There's a lot of action.
No, no, and and I think too, because it's a payoff, you know, like
they they let that series one, the series 4 Cliffhanger, oh, poor
Billops.
I know.
Look at that.
He walks off on fire.
Yeah, he catches fine.
Well, you remember who his mother is, that he's from that planet.
She's trying to make him have sex, isn't she?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's like a Renaissance fair planet with dragons and elves and
shit.
Oh, this is so gray.
He's trying to explain, please, don't repair the shuttle. we love
doing together.
In the, in the, in episode one, the alternative Rutherford is
completely cybernetic, and the reason his cybernetic is that he
couldn't bear his, the feelings he was suffering from when Tendi
left because Tendi never came back.
So they don't have, do you know what I mean?
They don't have an alt tendee on that ship because Tendee's in the
other plot.
And so Rutherford has missed Tendi so much that he's done that.
And so even though it's funny and comedy stuff and and like he's
really excited, like Rutherford really thinks that the very
cybernetic Rutherford is very cool.
It's actually a little bit sad.
They do sound great, though, cute.
Because they have the Vulcan character, do the thing we always
complain about in Knight's track.
Oh, I see.
What you were actually saying was this.
But because she's a Vulcan, of course, they talk literally. can
get away with that.
But the beautiful thing about that thing there was that she goes
yeah, I also noticed that since she's been gone, you haven't been
socialising with anybody and I thought you might have needed
somebody around and that's why I was doing this, which is very
sweet.
It's adorable, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like she's almost brought in is a sort of replacement tendee
so we don't know whether she's coming back.
Now this is my favourite line coming up here.
So the 2 crew who are dead are now better, Mackler and Gorn, and
it turns out it's because they uh, found a, they listened to
Bointer number 16, uh, and they found the tie-dyed coma beetle, uh
which helped them feign death.
And then, and then the gardener says, I will never again choose
the path of violence.
And Marina says, well, I'm glad you had a little story for
yourself today, buddy.
And I just think that's so cute.
She's completely genre aware.
She's happy for the gardener robot, because he's had an arc, and
she's encouraging him calling him buddy, and I just think that's
such a perfect lower date sign.
I don't want to be too mean about Voyager, but it's more of a
revelation than Harry Kim got in 7 seasons, that gardener robot.
That's right.
The other thing which I noticed, too, is that the ship that the
blue Orions are on is based on a really superb chip design in
Pirates of Orion in the animated series, like the...
A really, really good looking ship.
And they actually go back to it for the series 4 finale.
We see them in that ship and we see them flying that ship here.
So here we go.
She goes pretty smart, huh?
A toy.
No, everyone loses.
I'm not giving anyone a win, all right?
And it's the great...
I really like her, the queen.
Who, no, I don't, I don't think so.
I think we do see, I think we see Tandy's family yet.
But I kind of like...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know who he is, and dad, you know, there's handsome Mr
Tandy there.
So, and they've kind of, they're kind of, you know, like, um
they're okay with it.
They've decided they don't mind not being super rich and they're
okay with it.
And you can return to Starfleet and everything's fine.
And then only then do we come in and solve the problem for them at
the very last minute.
And of course, the fact that they get all of the useless, precious
uh, you know, all the golden jewels and stuff from Targalus 9
means that they're in charge.
Oh, no.
Look, this.
Oh, look at that heart.
Look at that. so sweet.
You were right.
You said it in the little prelude before we watched this in last
week's episode. seeing the reunited is what you want.
It's so cute And because, you know, he was sad.
She's true.
Who the hell is I?
She's still smashing it.
Oh, that's Guji.
So...
She's hiding. scared of them.
She's small.
But so there's bad G. but then he gets split in half into badgy
and goodji.
Right?
And Gucci's good and badji stuff.
And so so there's badgie in the in the shoes.
Yeah, because she's smashing that shuttle to fucking buggery.
Gucci is absolutely terrified, peering up out of the window.
Look at the ship.
Look at that awesome shit.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, so this solves the problem.
We've got a whole heap of you know, gold and jewels lying around.
And so we give it to the house of Tandy and everything's back to
normal, which is pretty great.
Tying up the 2 plots, eh?
Not too many. 90s tricks would do that, would they?
They managed to do it.
In 24 fucking minutes.
I know.
So enjoyable.
And this is sweet too.
Oh, and look. and so now they're bossing the dumb ass orians
around.
Is that the shit there?
Actually, that is pretty cool.
Yeah, doesn't it look great?
It's really good I mean, it's obviously much more two-dimensional
in in the animated series, but it is a pretty great ship design, I
reckon.
That was really good.
So there we go.
But it's better for its warm moments, I'd say, than it's gax this
time round.
I've said that a couple of times now.
But do you know what?
Like, we like feeling heart warmed, right?
We're watching TV.
So, yeah.
Absolutely.
And we talk about hang time with the characters, and that's
absolutely it.
It's 3 sort of fairly low, you know, kind of, they're not
massively complicated plots.
They dovetail.
There's enough sort of fun and humour.
Everyone gets something to do.
You know, brings tend back to the ship, so it's pushing things on
a little bit in the season.
Yeah.
And yeah, just like, I'd said it a couple of times in this.
How many ways that lower decks just economically takes all of
those cliches but pulls them off a 1000000 times better in like a
10th of the time?
That only comes from people that have studied that stuff in some
depth.
Like, I think they must be fans, right?
People making this.
Oh my god, yes. 90s trek is in their blood, you know, but they're
going to sort of condense it down and do it in a way that TV is
just so much.
I've got to say the word better now.
Sorry to anyone listening that's appalled by that concept.
No, I think, you know, it's just one of the great joys and one of
the great glories of Star Trek, I think, Clower Decks.
And I'm sad it's gone. it's pretty great.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to
work out where we're going next.
This one was my choice, and so it's Joe at the helm this week.
Can you tell us what series we're choosing from?
I've put 3 series in the randomiser this time.
And I know what you're going to say to me.
Joe, why'd you keep going back to 90s trek all of the time?
That's because there's 25 seasons of it, all right?
Compared to the Reds.
We've got a lot to watch.
However, just because I'm still not quite over, the sheer boredom
of minefield, I have excised enterprise.
So I've got Next Generation, DS9 and Voyager in the list, okay?
Brilliant.
Okay.
And I just, oh, well, press clear, oh, hang on.
Sorry.
I didn't mean to do that.
Okey-dokey.
And off we go.
You're random.
Oh boy, this is dreadful.
Your random Star Trek, the Next Generation episode is season two.
Oh dear.
Episode two, where silence has lease.
Oh my goodness.
That's the one with, what's his name?
McGillam.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, with the big face.
Yes, that is another evil omnipotent alien entity of the kind that
appears.
Usually when all our writers are on strike.
It is. the one where Dr. Pulaski is puppetied across the bridge
and poor old Diana Moldar, wondering what the fuck she signed up
for an episode next. next year.
Okay.
Well, let's let's not press it again.
Yeah, do that.
Okey-dokey.
Oh, yes.
Okay, no, this is the one.
This is the one.
No, I will not brook any argument.
Your random Star Trek, the next generation episode is...
Code of Honour.
Pause for suspense.
Point of honour.
Season 5, episode 6, the game.
Woo hoo!
Excellent.
Oh, that's brilliant.
Yes. so wonderful.
That's so great.
Enterprise is all yours, Tanya.
Please.
We will now take the game to everyone in the Federation.
It's stupid.
It's so glorious.
I mean, it is one of those.
Oh, it's that Star Trek episode where episodes, you know
absolutely memorable from the absolute heyday of the show.
So good.
Just absolutely brilliant.
Oh, Wesley.
I'm on level seven.
That's great.
And actually, do you know what?
Will Whitten looks so hot in that episode.
I think he may be sort of 20 at this point.
It's all right.
Okay, it's allowed.
Yeah. yeah Oh man, please.
Yes, let's do that as well is great too.
Oh, my God.
I mean, she didn't come back this year.
She was off to have an incredible career in movies.
Yep, yep, yep.
There's some Latin there that Picard gets wrong.
It's a whole thing.
I mean, if there was a game.
I was just going to sort it out, that gave you an orgasm every
time you got a puck into a hole.
I'd never leave the house.
I would be playing that.
I think that's the point though, isn't it?
This podcast would cease to exist.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artworkers by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 4th of March, 2025, and released
on the 7th of March.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, the
game.
It's so interesting, because I think it was greeted with a mixed
response, I think, the thought of a Star Trek. cartoon and
everyone was far more excited for discovery, you know, Picard, you
know, Patrick Stewart's coming back and all of this.
What's interesting is sort of when the dust settles, I think this
and Strange New Worlds will emerge as the best of what came out of
Kurtzman Trek.
I think they probably will as well.
I mean, it's hard to say what Starfleet Academy is going to be
like, but the determination to do very, very different shows in
very, very different styles.
You know, that was that was a good idea.
And that's much more fun.
You know, like we've love Voyager.
We love Deep Shace 9, obviously, but they're of a piece.
They're the same sort of thing as Star Trek, the next generation
and even enterprise, which tries as hard as it can to kind of get
away from the franchise doesn't really manage it.
Whereas, you know, this is hugely different from anything.
And it loves the show.
Like, it's love for the show, just kind of...
I think by series 5, even those hardcore trek nerds that were like
you think so.
I can't take the Mickey out of, you know, 90 straight.
The peak of all television, you know?
Even their sort of one over a bit, you know, when all of the
brilliant characters from Nighty Streak are, you know, there's a
bit of a roll call at the end of series 5, isn't there, of old
characters returning.
And why wouldn't you want to see a bag?
Yeah, exactly.
It's just glorious.
And you'd think it would be boring to, because every single lower
decks episode of you and I see here going, well, that was
wonderful, hilarious. brilliant, you know, but I don't care what
you people think.
I'm having a great time with it.
So, you know, I win.
So, you know, my theory is why people were worried about like
decks.
It's that because all of Star Trek really happened and because
it's the history of the future, that even got too stupid, it would
make their world stupid.
And I think, like, the same thing happens with Star Wars and
Doctor Who, that people think...
Yeah, yeah, space babies, the Porgs, like if things get too silly
people worry that that breaks the world.
It makes the world impossible to believe.
And what they don't realise, they think, is because they were
watching 90s trek when they were children, that it was always
ridiculous.
Do you know what I mean?
And certainly.
And certainly, you know, the original series is frequently just
ridiculous.
And like people say episode we are about to watch is utterly
ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, no, exactly.
And so...
I thought that was high drama, surely.
No, no.
And we'll talk about that, obviously, next week, but, but, like
they think when Star Trek is ridiculous.
It's failing, like it's it's doing something wrong.
Like when Star Trek's ridiculous or when Doctor Who's ridiculous
or when Star Wars is ridiculous, but that's a failure, a creative
failure, that it's doing the wrong thing.
It flopping.
And what they don't realise is, of course, that it often those
shows are deliberately ridiculous, because that's funny, you know
like it, and sometimes I say, oh, you know, like it's puerile or
whatever, you know, but, but I don't think Star Trek, and I don't
think original Star Trek is just like absolutely kind of failing
by being ridiculous.
I think it's intending to be ridiculous and over the top and
silly.
And 90 Streke, 90 Streke kind of feels that way as well.
I think one of the reasons that you, think about the Orions
right?
We have them in a few episodes in the original series.
We have them in an episode of the animated series, and then they
don't appear again until Enterprise, right?
And it's because green aliens seem silly and we're not going to do
those.
And enterprise, by that, the time, you know, starts to think, no
no, no, ridiculous Star Trek is what we're leading up to and we
get to be recorded as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But 90 Streak is really like it is ridiculous.
And like you said, the episode we're watching next week is just
absurd, absolutely absurd.
But deliberately so.
Well, should you remember, take me out to the holosuite?
You're doing a baseball match in the middle of a war.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Ridiculous isn't a fader. not an aesthetic failure.
It's an aim.
It's what they're aiming for frequently. and I think that's fine.
I think that's absolutely fine.
I have another theory as well.
I do agree with you, but I have another theory on top of that as
well.
So it's double, double.
Oh my god, we shouldn't be doing anything embarrassing.
Yeah, yeah, you know, ridiculous.
And that is, I think, Star Trek fans, Doctor Who fans, Star Wars
fans are geeks then, nerds.
You know, back in the day, that was not considered to be the cool
kids in school, right?
So you're already on the back foot, yeah, because you like Star
Trek.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Apart from being in a Star Trek crowd.
Yeah, but that's now where we've got the internet and everyone
could find each other.
But back in the day, you were a Star Trek fan and so you were a
bit ostracised and considered a bit of a weirdo, yeah?
So you want to try and take it quite seriously and for it to be
good serious drama, you know?
And then, of course, you know, something absurd happens, like all
the crew get turned into little kids.
And then the friend, you take over the ship.
Or your brother walking or something.
And they go, well, I mean, look at this, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Doctor Who, there's a giant brain with Sylvester McCoy's voice and
Star Wars, those fabulous Ewoks in return.
But, you know, your mother's sitting there going, is this what
it's always like?
Oh, boy.
This was not worth sacrificing your credulity at school for, you
know. exactly.
I think there are lots of reasons.
And yeah, I think you and me are of an age where we just come out
the other side now and, you know, fuck it out, look out the
window.
The world is miserable.
Star Trek, Doctor Who's Star Wars can be fun and silly and camp
and wonderful.
Bravo.
Give me more, please.