Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're right at the end of series 6 of Deep Space 9 this week
uh, and it's series 6, episode 24 times orphan.
And so we're 2 episodes away from Tears of the Prophets.
And I don't think that this is an episode that's very highly
regarded, and I think our memory of it was sort of consistent with
that when we spoke about it last time.
And then we both watched it this week and sent a flurry of
bizarrely positive messages to each other going, oh, I love this
bit.
I quite like that bit.
Although, I mean, my start for 10 on this episode is, I have no
idea why it exists.
Like, it is that a baffling concept to take away Molly.
I mean, it exists to torture O'Brien, right?
It's the yearly torture O'Brien episode.
Yeah.
Because it doesn't end up being about anything.
Like, you can imagine a version of this.
So the main conceit is that we go on a picnic, and there's a time
portal, Molly falls into a time portal because it's fucking Star
Trek, and you can't just go on a picnic without someone falling
into a time portal, right?
And so she falls in a time portal.
When she's retrieved, she's spent 10 years away.
And so she's, you know, barely verbal and stuff and she's kind of
feral as if she's been sort of raised by wolves or whatever.
And then she comes back and has to kind of integrate.
But it doesn't end up being about anything.
Like it doesn't end up being about, you know, parents being
confused and a little bit put off by the fact that their children
grow up, you know, and start being independent and start thinking
differently from them.
It's not really about that.
It is purely high concept science fiction thing, and it's purely
like it seems like it should be in series one or two, doesn't it?
Yeah, definitely.
Oddly, I think this could take place on any of the other Star Trek
shows in the 90s.
Yeah, it could be.
It could because it is a high concept science fiction episode that
means it's utterly standalone.
So it could be a Voyager.
It could be a TNG.
On another level, it can't at all because I just don't think there
is the family structure that's there in DS9 that this absolutely
hinges on.
And what I did love about this episode, and it really snuck up on
me was them making the choice to let older Molly go because
keeping them there was selfish.
And all of the moments of family that were happening around that
plot as well with Kira and Odo and Wharf and Dax.
And I said to you in a message, I really feel like this is the
writer's via this bizarre concept. having a moment of sincerity
and contact between the characters amongst all of the 50s romances
religious war, cynical takes on the federation, and spaceships
exploding that's going on at the tail end of series 6.
It's just a moment to pause and reflect on the relationships that
are on the station and what these people mean to each other.
And I really came out of this episode less impressed with the
story because I don't give a fuck about Savage Molly.
Although I am pleased for once that the child actor was back at
the end of the episode, and that's a miracle for me to say.
Oh, we love Hannah Hattay, don't we?
We do.
We really love her.
She's awesome Loopy.
Anyway.
But more, I just think, like, to really, to really focus on how
the characters on DSI are one big family before that family is
about to be pulled apart in quite a wretched way at the end of the
season.
That's worth doing.
Yeah.
And so originally there was only going to be an A plot, and the B
plot, which comes in, which is about Worf and Jadzia looking after
Kyrioshi. which is really fun and silly, and it gives Michael the
chance to be funny, and it gives us a sort of picture of Dax and
Worf thinking about their future together.
You know, like Worf has to prove that he's going to be a fit
parent and he's worried that Dax thinks that he's not.
And so he's trying to prove himself to her with a view to their
beautiful babies, which we will hear about in two, so it's time.
I believe that baby would have been so beautiful. would have been
so beautiful.
And so that gives us our last chance with that relationship before
Chantia leaves the show before she's killed in 2 episodes time.
So it was absolutely good. thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Their relationship is so good and I think it's the best wharf ever
is.
When he's with Dax in series six.
Change of heart, this, the episode where she's just playing
fucking Tongo against Quark and he's there on the railings, you
know, cheering her on.
He's so chill and he's so funny and it brings forth all of Michael
Dawn's charm. in a way that we so rarely see it.
It's so frustrating.
They really, really captured something in a bottle with Worf when
they put him in a relationship with Dax.
It was brilliant.
And so that was super important.
I think maybe that's more important than the A-plot.
I think the A-plot is good, but I think it's a little bit too
much.
And I've heard my friends talk about certain things on TV become
difficult to watch once you're a parent.
And I think that the loss of a child like this in this sort of
absurd science fiction way is just a little bit too much.
And certainly when you've got an actor like Rosalind Chow, who
doesn't just go for the obvious melodrama, but every so often is
really heartfelt in a way that's sort of quite upsetting.
A bit where she, they sit on the rock outside the cave and she
just goes, where's my baby?
Like, it's really...
She's really properly.
And so I think that's a little bit too much.
And I never really buy the decision to not just go back and fetch
our Molly.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and I understand that they don't want, because that would
kind of, in a sense, entail making the molly that sitting in front
of them disappear.
But they don't put it in those...
They have to murder their daughter.
In order to get their door so back.
Which is why the ending's perfect, right?
And we'll get there in the only way that Molly could possibly be
murdered if she kills herself.
But it's not really that because, of course, we're assured at the
end that that Molly will be back where little Molly says, will
that lady who I saw before, will I see her again, the girl?
And Keiko says not for a few years, but yes, you will.
So she's not gone because she's our Molly.
And that's actually...
Well, Nathan.
Have you not seen Hannah Hattay these days?
So, Hannah Hatay is grief. 37 now.
He's quite the most beautiful creature to have come out of Star
Trek ever.
And she's very cool.
She has dogs.
She doesn't act.
She has an Instagram account, which I couldn't look at properly
because I've deleted my own Instagram account.
But I did look at a little bit of it and she does seem really
lovely and she says nice things about this episode.
The memory alpha.
Oh, she's on what you leave behind.
She loves.
Do you know, do you think she peaks with Molly?
So she's like, I've got to have to give up acting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll never get any scenes like...
He's in my world ever again. me She said she was terrified of
Rubble Stillskin when she was a little girl like she was really
frightened and someone had to be in the room with her and the
actor whenever. yeah No, no, no, like she was scared of the guy
made up to be Rumble Silskin.
So she was scared of him.
And she said that this bit was fun because she got to fall.
Do you know what I mean?
She was on a thing and she gets to fall into the time portal.
And so she has memories of that.
And she's getting older.
She's playing it a little bit young.
She's eight, I think, in dialogue here, but I think she's probably
10 or 11 when she's actually doing the acting.
And so she does 11 or 12 episodes in total across the 2 shows, I
think.
Like, yeah, the A-plot.
It's problematic in the, I just, I'm watching it going, I'm not
sure why we're doing this.
But I'm also watching it going, wow, these performances are so
honest.
They're so sincere and all that stuff I was ripping last week when
we selected this, you know, this is a bar, which you like the bar
Marley?
you know, all of that stuff.
I was like, no, this is really well acted.
It's like I summed it up to you in a message.
I said, terrible premise.
Superb execution.
I just think they took all this bizarre, bizarre idea and just
milked it for all it was worth.
So by the end of it, when they were breaking her out of the cell
and Odour was letting them go and all this, I was just so on board
of his stuff.
I was like, it's the characters.
The characters, as ever with DS9, come through.
Yeah, yeah.
And everyone sort of gets involved and like Julian is really
interesting.
There's a great scene with Cisco.
The scene with Odo is great.
Quarks involvement is really good.
Like they kind of get everyone right in this and they're all in
it.
And so it is a proper family episode.
It's proper hang time with a deep space night family, which we're
always going to love, I think.
So I wasn't hanging out for more space battles or anything like
that.
I spent my time really enjoying just the actors and the characters
interacting.
So interesting as we've explored series 6 and 7 on Star Trek
Project, because I think I was that fan that was like, you know
where are the empires, you know, why are we toppling Cardassia and
exploding 1500 spaceships, you know?
Don't you remember how good Sacrifice of Angels was?
And sort of as we've gone through, It's been stuff like...
Bad at being, but a bang, taking me out to the hollow suite his
way.
Even this.
I can't believe I'm going to say it, even this, where I'm like, no
this is wonderful relief from all of that.
And it's not only a reminder of what Star Trek is about, which is
people, right?
But it's a reminder of what DS9 is about.
What DS9 had above all the others in the 90s is just this amazing
cast of characters and their relationships with us.
And I think it's worth, it is worth stopping just for an hour just
to see, you know, sort of how well they all function together.
Just the very poignant moments you can get between them.
We'll talk about it in there and we'll go in in a second.
This is a long preamble.
But just like, like, it's a throwaway moment.
It doesn't need to be there.
Kira takes the baby from the O'Briens.
She takes Yoshi from the O'Briens to Wharf and Dax.
Yeah, she's the conveyance.
That's it.
It could have been done in a line.
Oh, well, Kira's dropped off the baby.
Instead, you get a scene between her and Odo, where she's holding
the baby.
And she goes, oh, do you know what?
I might have one of my own one day.
And the look on Odo's face when he realises he can't give her that
and they're in a relationship now.
It didn't need to be there.
But it's beautiful. really good, isn't it?
And just that reminder, you know, like the show hasn't forgotten
Kira's role and gives us the chance to talk about that again, to
address, to address that again.
And that's really nice and it's a different side to Kira.
It's wonderful.
I just think all of that stuff is so great.
I'll be excited to talk about this stupid episode.
All right.
Well, I think we'll go in.
What do you think?
I think we should, yes.
Let's do it.
I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
And uh, oh, there we go.
So, Molly is so cute.
She's so funny.
Wake up. time to go.
If a child woke me up like that, I was like, fuck off.
I'm sleeping.
But of course, I'm not a parent.
Thank God.
It's unbelievable, right?
It is unbelievable.
This is Hannah Hattay's and Rosalind Charles' only episode in
series 6.
And the only scene they get in Sirius 7 is their appearance in
what you leave behind. one scene.
So they're basically out.
So, well, she's doing movies now.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you see how good she is, isn't it?
Well, she don't need this.
No, no, no, no.
And, you know, bear in mind she's been going since what?
Series 3 of Next Generation.
She's been doing this a long time now.
No, she is really great.
She's really good.
And I like this with the kids.
Like, there's the bracelet, which is important to identifying
Molly later a couple of times in the episode, and they've been to
this place before that photo comes up later.
Oh my god.
Seam Steeler, Kira Yoshi, is so good.
Oh, and just the car.
I love the car.
So the cat comes from a previous episode because, um, uh, Yeah
it's the one with Nick Tate in it, you know, from Space 1999.
And from Final Mission.
Okay.
That's the one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So she doesn't like it, which I think is kind of cool.
It goes, yeah, the cat might get lost.
Yeah, she goes, oh, bring it along, man.
That's right.
We brushing the hair as well.
That was very important later.
Do you know, I didn't realise there were so many little details in
this pre-title sequence that come up later in the episode.
Oh, yeah, yeah. all this stuff about getting lost.
All of this stuff about sending them away, which obviously
happened at the end of series 5 when the, um, the Dominion took
over the station, and so we get over that.
And as you said, um, this kind of sets up the, the final thing
that happens, that they, they decide to go to earth.
And like their relationship's always been a bit fractious because
she hasn't wanted to be on the station.
And so this is a little while, she went along with his thing and
then he goes along with that. lovely bit in the middle in series 5
where Kira moves in and we'll ignore the almost romance between
her and Miles in that episode where there is a lovely sort of
family film.
You've got Molly, Kira, O'Brien, and Keiko is happy to be there at
that point.
But yeah, we've got we're in war territory now.
So this sort of stuff has been moved to the side a little bit.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm pleased we remember it here.
I mean, did you see Kirioshi go, Abdul?
It totally steal the same.
He's so cute.
He's so adorable.
Did you know who directed Disney film?
Alan Croker.
Who does all the finale?
What you leave behind?
I did think, actually, watching this back.
I did think the direction was pretty good, actually, of this
episode.
Yes, yeah.
So we are, it's a gateway and they were going to say it was an
Iconian gateway originally.
Of course they were.
But then they decided, come on.
We not doing that.
Ah, wee, there should go into the into the thing.
Do you think, do you think there was like a nice trampoline down
there for a hundred?
she said.
How wonderful.
I mean, that is quite horrible though, isn't it?
If you're a parent watching.
Yeah.
And the equivalent is, you know, you go somewhere beautiful and
your child... into a cave and just falls down a hole.
Yeah, like it's awful. never to be seen again.
Like, it's really properly awful.
And I think it's too much.
Like, you know, that's that's what I would say.
Because it's not making a point.
And it's okay and it comes out good at the end and certainly the
ending of it is very, very clever.
Like, I think the ending of it is perfect, although they do have
to have a scene explaining it to us just in case we weren't paying
attention.
But I thought the ending was really great.
I wonder if we were all just a lot more stupid in the 90s, you
know, we need this exposition.
Yeah, yeah.
Ah, so that Molly found that point, did she?
I wonder if she knew, even though she clearly did, because we saw
another preview.
Yeah, we saw her again, mummy and daddy.
Yeah, it's my folks.
Oh, well.
But yes, yeah, a pretty striking opening.
And I said to you, it's very unusual with 90s straight.
I mean, there aren't many shows where you could literally just
have a family having a picnic because we don't do family. 90s
trek.
No, and apart from this show?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Or, you know, there's terrible episodes in Star Trek, the Next
Generation where a family is on the ship for no reason.
But like, I don't know.
It is very early, it's very early DS9 though, isn't it?
Like I said, like one of the characters goes in a runabout to a
nearby planet, which is Galana, which is said to be in the Bajoran
sector and is a place that Bajorans, although for some reason Kira
doesn't know this history, that Bajorans colonised, but only a
couple of years ago or 100 years ago or something.
So it's a deserted planet by the time she goes back.
Yeah, she's been so back far enough in time that she will be
completely alone, which is why she can't communicate when she
comes out, except with her fists.
Yeah, yeah.
And like none of that, like I just didn't buy any of that.
Like I didn't buy that she wanted to go back and be with no one
you know what I mean?
Like never see anyone again.
You've got Julian saying the trauma has caused her to forget you
which seems all just a little bit convenient.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I just didn't...
Maybe she needed to be. even older.
If it had been like 30 years or something like that.
She was an old woman.
But then, I mean, the problem with that then is that you've lost
all of that time and she's not, you know, she couldn't be older
than them.
Should they still need to be her parents for it to work?
But I mean, even losing that 10 years, the fact that they kind of
accept that is just seems unlikely.
It's just as well.
The premie is right.
Well, are you supposed to think about that as a parent, you know?
As a parent watching this.
Okay.
So if my child fell down into a time portal, right?
And then came back to 10 years later.
And couldn't communicate with me was a total savage.
Ooh, how would I deal with that situation?
Well, I don't think it's like that.
Why did you start glassing people?
Like that just seems like a thing.
Oh, I love that bit.
Yeah, I know, but it doesn't seem like a skill you would pick up
on the deserted planet Galana, you know, sometime in the 23rd
century.
But you know what, right?
I do think when you go back to the, you know, when they take her
on the holiday, and it's that, that lovely green pasture era So
that moment, sorry, sorry.
We just missed O'Brien saying bollocks.
Oh, I love that as well.
And but then Kira Yoshi starts crying. when that happens, and that
was just kind of like, like I actually found that quite upsetting
him, though, Yoshi can't know what's going on.
Just his outburst.
And when this was 1st broadcast in the UK, the word bollocks was
cut.
It's like, um, O'Brien gets to say bloody as well because that's
not a swear word in America.
I just love the fact that bollocks ended up in a Star Trek
episode.
Yeah, well, I liked it when fucking shit ended up in Star Trek
episodes, to be honest.
I want more of that So they were paving the way, Nathan, for
cursing trip.
Yeah, that's right.
I would start with the bollocks.
We end up with a fuck.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I love...
I love this scene so much Look at the way she handles Kyrio
Shakira.
You're gonna be so adorable.
And honestly, none of this is a mother at this point.
So she's handling a baby the way you have a baby, right?
It was her baby, wasn't it?
And Odo is as awkward as he's ever been.
Like, 0 my god.
What am I supposed to do with this little creature?
Trouble is they're talking about all this this mad premise, so...
Thank you for letting us know the exposition of about where she
landed and how long ago it was.
Thank you very much.
But they do.
Zinger is the character moment, though.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And like they're selling what's happening because we're not going
to see it.
And I guess having those 2 talk about it and establishing Yoshi as
an important character in this episode is worth doing.
And look.
At this point, we still think we're getting Molly back as a child
don't we?
Well, we don't know because like we're only 5 minutes into the
episode and something's got to happen, you know.
But, but, it's so it's so weird to seem right because you're
right.
Ross and Chow is so great, so convincing, too convincing.
Yeah.
And we don't really get a lot of that in 90s trick, do we?
Most of the performance are.
He's trying to reassure her.
And you kind of think, okay, she's convinced by the space staff.
And then, and then this, like, I find that really quite hard to
watch, whereas our baby.
Like, it's, she's really good.
She's so good.
And it's so good.
I don't know.
I think it's just too much for this stupid science fiction show.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, she's fallen.
You're too good for this, bro.
That's it.
It makes it, it makes it a little bit too real, you know, it makes
it too real and it's not really real.
I mean, I liked, but that's what I liked about this.
Yeah, I liked the sincerity.
She is great.
Like, she's amazing.
I wouldn't want her to do a worse job, but I just kind of think
that that's just slightly too much.
Yeah.
Here we go now.
Right.
The machine's going.
We're going to get Molly back.
Lots of technobabble DNA acquisition sensors ago, you know?
We're as ready as we're ever going to be, chief.
Off we go.
Right.
Oh, the one thing we haven't mentioned, you know, is, because
she's just about to appear, is the extraordinary performance of
the older Molly.
That is such a thankless role.
Like, we want you to play this savage that's been on our own.
Yeah, I think she's really good.
She was so sweet.
I just really like her. beautiful as well.
Yeah, just so pretty.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, it's rough though, isn't it?
Right now, they've roughed up her hair and she looks a bit like
the Jersey Devil from that X-File episode, you know, sort of
covered in scars and stuff as well, which obviously get cured.
Do you know what I mean?
she looks like she's properly been living in the wild.
Do you know what Mark said, because Mark was watching this for me
right?
And he goes, in the next scene.
Obviously, her hair is done and she's got makeup on and everything
and he went, what?
She found makeup on the planet.
I said, no.
I said, they've sent her off to hair and beauty, haven't they?
Well, she's like, gotcha.
Look at the outfit she made herself too.
Those scars are nasty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like they are really nasty.
Like something has happened that's really kind of terrible.
And look, again, look at Rosalind.
Look at her reaction.
She's so good.
But even though it is like, you know, manoeuvring them into an
episode where they have to abandon their daughter.
Yeah, it's a kind of horrible thing to do.
I do love.
I love the fact that they love her so much that they'll do what's
right for her.
What they think is right for her.
And what Molly thinks is right for her too, because she says that
she loves them as she's leaving.
You know, like it is sort of really tender, I think.
And it is clearly what she wants.
Like she's clearly happy and it's only when she sees how
distressed the little Molly was that she decides to give little
Molly what she wants and that she foregoes what she wants.
I mean, Ross and Chow has never met this actress in her life, but
I utterly believe that they're my front daughter in this scene.
The way she's stroking her face.
But it's the space thing.
It's the genre brain thing where where it's kind of like, no, we
can't go and fetch the other Molly because then there would be no
one to grow up into this Molly.
And you kind of go, come on, like, like, what, so, like, do I care
about that?
Do you know what I mean?
Look, do you want to visit from Dolma and Lustley from temporal
investigations, right?
You start fucking around with the timelines like this.
That's what will happen.
Dolmer and lostly.
Oh here we go.
We've got our little visitor wolf.
Gung, gung, gung, gung.
I don't know how they do it, you know, because he gets that line.
He goes, what is this infant doing in my home?
But he's clearly delighted that he's the...
His eyes have just got a sparkle in them for out, though, haven't
they?
He's loving it.
It's so great.
I love the fact we've gotten over all that, you know, in season
five, let Hugh is without seeing all that sort of the initial
bumps in there.
They just love each other now, Dax and Wharf, you know?
Yeah, it's really nice.
It's like, why are we doing this all the time in 90s?
I don't understand.
It's exactly what you said, which is just letting Michael be as
charming as he is.
And he is incredibly charming and he's wonderful in this.
He so great.
Go back and watch him in series one of TNG.
He's just growling and scouring. entire season.
Oh, he can actually act.
Okay.
But if you are going to bring him over to DS 9, right?
Give him new things to do.
Yeah.
So they give him a long-term relationship.
They let him get married.
They're talking about having children.
He goes for the loss of his wife, you know, really interesting
stuff.
Yeah, yeah. probably good.
Oh, I just love... you know what?
I really hate child actors.
I've not ever made a secret of that.
There's a whole subset of them in Doctor Who that I just loathe.
I don't know why, but Hannah Hate and whoever's playing Kyrioshi.
They're just adorable He's so cute He's really adorable.
Warhol, the baby, as a pro wrist, that's gold.
He's going Bombay mix, Bombay mix.
And that's what Adina says to Saffie in that early episode.
Listen to Mummy's funny voice there.
Bombay mix.
And he's doing it with the same intonation.
It's gone to be that.
This is 1998.
That episode's been out for a couple of years.
He's clearly seen it and that's his, that's what he's saying.
Wow.
Do you think he's had loop there?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And I looked it up because the subtitles were, you know, did it in
Klingon spelling and stuff and no one could say that it meant
anything.
It was just clearly nonsense.
So he was clearly just ad-libbing it.
And that was him.
That's wonderful.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, now, I sent you a message about this little setup in the cargo
bay with the sort of the tree and what I love about this is it
absolutely exposes the artificiality of the usual fake planetary
services that we have that are forests and things because this is
basically just the regular planet surface with a cargo bay around
it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The light in, everything's the same, absolutely everything.
Well, it's funny, the 1st episode of Deep Space 9 we ever did on
Untitled Star Trek Project was all about setting it up, setting up
an arboretum, wasn't it?
for Keiko in the cargo bay.
She didn't want none of it, though, did she?
She went off to some caves.
But I kind of like that. and you're right.
And they start getting it right in Star Trek, the next generation
that they do pretty convincing sunlight in the studio.
So I think that that looks pretty good.
But like, I don't know.
I really do want to say nice things about this actress.
Like, she's having to climb trees.
And she just makes it all look so naturalistic.
Rosalind.
Like every, like, she is selling this stupid premise.
So, look, you know, like, because it is, it's precisely the how
the fuck am I supposed to feel about this.
She's been doing it for 10 years now, all right?
She's had wharf to deliver her baby, you know.
She's been taken over by an evil par race.
She could do anything.
She can now.
That's exactly right.
She's been threatened by her husband who was possessed.
She's been possessed and threatening her husband.
It's the full game.
I have no if, you know.
I have noticed that there has been a shift in how people consider
Keiko because there was a time, you know, in the 90s because she
was basically on this show just going, I don't want to be here.
I hate this show.
I hate this.
And people were like, oh, well, then fuck off.
We hate you.
And there was that people used to do the cat call.
Because, you know, she'd always go, miles, miles.
You know, it sounded like a cat miaowing.
Now, I've noticed with the new Trek fandom coming in from Kurtzman
Trek, where women get a lot more focus, that there is a huge
appreciation of somebody in the midst of all this madness on DS9
calling it out and saying, you know, this is no place to bring up
a child.
And also she is just stunningly beautiful and so good.
Like, look at her selling this stuff.
Like, selling, you know, giving the 18 year old and dead.
Mark was watching this going, you know, oh, here's Loopy the
Doll.
Would you like the doll, Molly?
I thought, oh, I can't.
Actually, he was watching the episode.
He was genuinely getting involved in it.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, and it is, look at her smile.
Look how beautiful. she is.
She's just so stunning.
And I think she's great.
But yes, it's that sort of thing where, where if there's a
character on the show, you want to be on the show.
You're watching the show because you love the show and you love
the premise and all of that.
And she's there going, I actually don't want to be here.
I don't want to be in this stupid show.
I hate these sets.
I want to go home, then we're not going to like it.
So this evening, which you made fun of.
May I have the ball, Nathan?
No, wait, wait.
But please, please, just for a 2nd put yourself in the mind of
those people that want war and they want things. and they're
sitting here watching them go, would you like the bowl, Marley?
So, I have to confess that I laughed out loud in this scene, and
it's this moment where she goes and puts down the ball on top of a
whole bunch of other balls, and that changes what this scene has
been about.
Like, it's not that she doesn't know about balls or anything like
that.
It's like, she's like, Jasper, she's like my dog who will go and
collect the treats from the other dogs and put them in a pile and
try and guard them.
And I just thought that was hilarious because it just changed the
meaning of what's been going on in that scene in a really funny
way.
But of course, what this is doing is it's showing that they are
getting through to her.
She's starting to remember the familial relationships, you know
with the hairbrushing in a minute.
So we're starting to think, okay, so maybe this is going to work
out.
Yeah.
And then and then there's that wonderful bit in the quarters, which
we'll get to.
I really love when she tears up the clothes and just rejects it
outright.
Why would I want to stay in this miserable gray room when I've got
all that space and lovely green?
Yeah.
Yes, but look at her.
She's smiling and everything.
And it is the reciprocity thing.
Oh, we talk about this scene, please.
I caught it and won the half of the magnificent...
I can do all those things.
I can make this baby go to sleep.
Yeah, yeah.
Just drug it.
I'll drug it.
Julian, have you got a hyper spray?
Thank you very much.
And did you sing to him?
And you kind of expected me to go, no, come on.
And he says...
Oh, we've heard him sing again.
Hang on opera.
Oh, no, no, me, no, no.
Oh, it's such a great speech, isn't it?
I've piloted starships through Dominion minefields.
I've stood again bow against Kelvin's twice my size.
I caught it and won the heart of the magnificent Jetzia Dax.
It's so...
My ultimate nemesis.
I can't see.
But it does, I also love, I do love the fact that he calls her out
and goes, no, you want to see how I am as a player.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In fact, she's making fun of him.
She's going, like, talk about having no sense of perspective, just
what he, what the hell are you doing?
You know.
Um, and then he says, I know that you're judging me, you know, and
he passes the test and we lead to, we're thinking about having a
baby.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
After this.
It was a secret.
Did they mention the Yoshi thing in that scene?
I can't remember, but you have to be thinking about it because it
was 2 weeks ago at that at that point, wasn't it?
Yeah.
But it is nice as well, that they are giving that some
consideration because obviously they know Jazzy is going.
They know they're pulling her out of the show.
So to sort of take them in a direction and then rent shit.
I know it's melodiratt.
We do take the piss out of it a lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's had some buildup.
Yeah exactly.
Oh, here we go.
I just like this as well.
They trying to live their lives around this mad...
She's sleeping in the tree.
He's got the couch there and he's sleeping on the couch with her
there.
She's arranging where Kirioshi's going to be.
He comes in with her air tied up.
Right.
I just finished work.
I'm taking over.
You go to work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They've still sort of got to live their lives.
Well, and that's it, it's life on the station as well, which I
really like there.
Oh my word.
This really, I thought this was this was a really beautiful
moment.
But more because it's an obvious thing, but just say how it was
played.
Yeah, yeah. than her reaching out for the hairbrush.
And her kind of going, oh, she's making a connection.
Like, look at how Rosalind's playing it.
She's so good.
And the music here.
So we've got Jade Shadowaway's music and you can hear a girl
singing on the track on the soundtrack.
It's so rare to have voices in a Star Trek, not since Best of Both
Worlds, part one, maybe.
I just feel like, right.
There was a tone meeting where everyone sat down to read out the
script and they went, look, this is bullshit, right?
But we're going to make this Jay, the director Alan Croeca, the
actors.
Let's just make this as good as we can.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, you're doing that every week.
Yeah.
The amphromorphizing of the landscape.
So interesting.
And and the way it plays out at the end because then Molly draws
little Molly.
Our Molly draws the same picture with the same landscape, even
though she was she wasn't even there.
She'd been to that place for a picnic and she loved it.
You know, and she she showed Yoshi the picture of them at the
previous picnic.
But all of this stuff too, where Julian's trying to talk him down
and say, look, it just might not be quite as quick and easy as you
think it is.
And that's really good and that's about their relationship and
it's about him as a professional and stuff, all of that's really
good.
Gong, gong, gong.
I just, I like it as well because it could, it could have so
easily have been, you know, it, Molly's only in one more episode
off this.
It could have been that they kept the older Molly, right?
That could have been the ending of this and we just never see her
again until that last scene in what you leave behind and we just
forget about her.
And we do that thing they did in a hard time of like, well, you
know, it's going to take a while to get over this and we never
talk about it. again, instead.
They just wrap it up in a boat beautifully.
Yeah, I agree.
Oh, and again, we mock wharf.
Like wharf is always funny because he's tried to walk off with a
rattle and now Julian's making fun of him.
Okay, I don't know how that kid looks so gourmless. so cute.
He's so cool.
Oh, no, here we go.
Molly's not happy.
No, and we've come...
She's climbing about this cargo, babe.
From the scene, like from the scene with Julian saying it may not
be as easy as you think.
Oh, and she hears she hears her say the word home and she repeats
it, doesn't she?
Like, like, Keiko says the word home 1st and then Molly repeats
it.
And it's, it's kind of so sad because they think she's talking
about her, and they take her back home.
I mean, they are miserable, aren't they?
I thought gun metal gray.
Yeah.
But again, like I kind of just none of that seems particularly
credible.
I think.
I don't know.
It doesn't matter.
It's a space thing, whatever.
But she's just so great though.
She's looking around.
She's taking it all in.
She goes into her room.
She recognises the toys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then she just says no and she just tears the dress up.
Yeah.
And then it's straight into the holodeck sequence where she's
running around and in the wide open space.
And I know what you're saying about, you know, why would she want
to be there on her own?
But if you have been in a wide open space for 10 years.
And then you're trapped in this miserable gray, tight space.
It would have an effect on you, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, they have to make her so kind of violent and
uncontrollable that they have to surrender her for her own good.
And you can see that it's just being done to make the episode play
out that way.
And so it, like, like you said, the premise is preposterous and
none of it really properly works, but all of the actual scenes and
the episode and what we're spending time doing is just great.
It's pretty good staff.
Look at the class.
That is the most...
The house thing on the...
Yeah, it's the character decisions.
I think makes sense, but it's just how they're portrayed, I think
more than anything.
What the hell did Waddle and Thompson, the writers of this
episode.
The last episode they wrote was Inquisition, okay?
which was the 1st section 31 episode.
And it, right?
Guys, we've got a great premise for you this time, you know, Savage
Molly, torn through time by a decade.
Yeah, yeah.
I think they just, instead of focussing on the premise, they just
focussed on the details.
Well, I think Manosky writes the teleplay and it's a story by
Wedlon Thompson, I think.
Oh, okay.
Manovsky, well, no wonder it's a bit old.
But so, you know, like a high concept idea like this, like is
worth a try at Star Trek, where else are you going to do it?
I was so surprised I didn't realise this was the holodeck when I
watched it last night.
And again, that looks like it solves the problem, doesn't it?
It looks like it solves a problem.
You know, when you do realise, Nathan, it's when there's that
agonisingly terrible special effect of quark standing in the
doorway on location.
Yeah, yeah. awful.
They can't quite do the matting on location yet.
Unfortunately.
But will you please have a look at how the action is stationed.
Now you might not like her gutting the man with the half smashed
bottle.
But she literally comes out, bites Quark, runs down the stairs and
then pushes over like a domino effect, 5 or 6 people and there's
just stuff flying everywhere.
Then the man falls.
In terms of staging, it's great.
Well, she goes down the stairs.
How do you stage chaos like that?
Yeah, did they have a few goes?
Because it's, it all just falls perfectly.
It's not too bad.
It's a short one.
Yeah, yeah, it is pretty terrible.
And like Quark knows what's at stake here and he actually cares
that they're okay.
Do you know what I mean?
He tries to get out of it, but he really can't.
And it's a choice between his friends or those 2 massive
Klingons.
That's right.
Yeah, and it had to be Klingons.
I think. you know, and he even buys them a drink.
It's like, I'll buy you a drink while they sort themselves out.
Do you know what I mean?
It is Quark being generous and being part of the family.
And that's his one scene here.
You know, obviously, and there's the violence bit, you know, later
oh, dear.
Yeah.
That was terrible.
Although I do like how the lighting changes before the background
changes.
Like that's actually pretty good when the holodeck switches off.
I still think, and this is a very Star Trek podcast thing to say
those are the best holodeck sets out of all the shows, you know.
I love the hollow sweet lighting.
Do you know, I really secretly like just the simplicity of the
next generation one where it's a grid.
It's a space.
I can see the tape coming up in places.
Yeah, yeah.
But I just like the grid.
Like I don't want it to be too fancy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Watch how she pushes that one person.
Yeah, it goes, just the woman over, pushes another person over
pushes that Ferengi over 2 people catch him.
She jumps on this guy, she stabs this guy because that's what you
do on the planet.
Galana all the time.
They're sort of glassing people.
Oh, no way.
So he has kind of established she's in a violent situation because
she was covered in scars.
So she's obviously grappling with animals to feed and things like
that.
I don't think it's implausible.
But it's just like if she's being hunted and if, you know, her
time is so difficult that she's become sort of scary and violent
then why is she so keen to go back there?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it's just all a bit undercooked.
And that's okay because that doesn't really matter.
Do they want to send her to the Daystrom instrument?
Day Strow Institute.
No, because they want to send it.
So they send it, it was some caregiving facility that they
mentioned, but it's nothing that we've heard on special care
centre.
Alvos Prime.
For God's sake.
Where's that?
I don't know.
Space Plant somewhere in space.
But I do, I like the fact that Cisco and Odo and O'Brien. trying
to find a way around it.
They're trying to find some kind of a loophole because Cisco's a
family man, right?
He understands what this will mean to O'Brien.
Yeah.
And again, like, you know, I had seen this when I saw the ending
it was familiar, even though I couldn't remember what it was as I
was sort of watching it through, I've definitely seen this in sort
of living memory.
And I really, really like the scene where Odo just goes, fuck it.
Yes. the ship.
Yeah.
And every time he gets a moment of where he surprises you.
Yeah, yeah.
But do you think it's informed by the scene earlier on where he
sees Kira and Yoshi?
that's the last time that we've seen him.
He's seen Kiran Yoshi and how much they love one another.
See, I think this is a bit too horrible as well, where she
repeatedly throws herself into the force field.
It's, it's, it's, everyone's real.
There's another great bit of stage, you know.
Watch the force will go down, and then now she saw burst between
them.
I don't know. there's some good direction in this.
I think there's some there's some good staging.
Yeah, we can't keep sustaining.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, and so what, they just decide to leave her, but because
she's being, uh, pursued by the feds or whatever, they have to
send her back. should have been a line, right?
The reason why they, well, willing to take her back to the
planet.
Counsellor Troy has just been transferred to the special care
centre as the therapist.
My God, get her back to the planet now.
A fate was a great therapist.
She'd be awesome.
She's a great therapist in Kursman Trek.
In the next generation.
Saucy, Jets, it walks into the apartment and goes, wow, I can't
wait to get out of my uniform.
It's like, okay.
There's one episode, you know, where they wake up in bed
together.
Yeah.
And wolf, wolf, nix the cover off her.
He gets up and then pulls the cover and you just see her naked
legs going, ah.
She sleeps nude.
Yeah good for her.
I mean, look at her, why wouldn't she?
Exactly.
Jesus Christ.
Oh, dear.
This is so cute.
This is so funny.
He's like, oh, I'm terrible.
I was so careless.
I quite like this too, because he was doing really well. and now
we have the reversal and now he feels like he's proved that he's a
bad parent.
And then we get the reversal again because Yoshi loved it all so
much and he's still going gong, gong, gong, gong, gong with the
rattle and stuff, which I just think is terribly cute and it's
wonderful that Warp's emotional arc is bound up in that.
I like how melodramatic warf is, you know?
Like literally all he's done is like the baby.
I'm so sorry, Jadzir.
I failed you as a father.
That's what I say, you know, when I burn the toast tomorrow.
I failed you as a boyfriend.
I'm so sorry.
Yeah, see, I love all of this.
I thought the acting here where they're making the choice.
And we haven't mentioned Colomini in this.
We've mentioned Rosenchow.
And I think it's easy to overlook him because he's always great.
Yeah.
No wonder he's gone off to do loads of movies.
Well, that's right.
But I also really love, like, there's something really great about
this too, where he just says to her, no, we should just surrender
her to the care, giving facility.
And then she realises, yeah, no, he's never going to have meant
that and says, you're planning something and of course he is.
I like it when she says, I'm as stubborn as you are, Miles
O'Brien.
Now tell me what's going on.
Look at the close-ups on them now as she works out what the plan
is.
Hold on them as a couple.
I mean I always have been.
But the more time goes on, the more sold I am.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because like she works out.
That's the other thing too.
She doesn't need the plan, explain to him because they're on the
same page.
She doesn't need to explain to her.
She doesn't need him to tell her that we're sending them back into
the bar.
She just puts her head down.
She's so grief stricken.
Although I think the gut wrenchy moment in this episode is just
before they let her go through the portal again and she goes, Mummy
loves you, sweetie, and she chokes back a tear.
Yeah, yeah.
It should be so twee, and it's just so sensitive. because she's so
good.
It's just because she's great.
Yeah.
Any other actress and it might have bombed.
But we've got Rosalind.
Yeah, yeah.
O'Brien is so obviously going to knock out this guy now.
I mean, how stupid are these Bajoran goals?
The security guy as well, forgotten sake.
Odo told me to move her to this place, huh?
Oh, really?
I'll turn my back on you and check.
Okay.
Oh no, I've been knocked out.
For God's sakes.
Oh, yeah, I mean, I love the fact that for a 2nd because this is
the ad break, isn't it, when Odo catches them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It cuts to an outbreak.
So they're trying to suggest this is a moment of tension.
It's not really.
And then I love the fact that they just dismiss that completely
and just turn it into the sweetest.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
In fact, it's great because Rosalind does just the most superb
reaction to being caught, but we close...
She kisses him.
Oh, yeah, no, that.
Kiss is all good.
And is there a reference?
Someone suggested there's a reference to captive pursued that
because Odo says, I thought that if anyone could smuggle someone
off this station unprotected.
Yeah, yeah, it would be you.
Don't you remember?
They play out.
This scene in Captain Pursuit, where Odo's supposed to capture
Tosk.
And then Brian Cisco goes, oh, take your time, principal, you
know.
And he very slowly goes towards the turbo lift.
But this is better.
This is better.
This is bound up in the character.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I do think that I do think that there is something about him
and Kira in that previous scene that informs his decision in this
scene.
And I do love how she kisses him that, where he turns where
O'Brien turns to say something and he says, yeah, just go.
I don't want to hear your platitudes.
My God.
You know it'll both be agonising for the 2 of us.
That was really good.
I thought that was probably just go.
That's a great scene.
It's why I said to you before, though.
I said to you that at this point the characters are practically
self-perpetuated.
Yeah, yeah.
So it doesn't matter how shit the premise is.
You can still drive things out of characters with a really bad
premise.
Yeah, yeah.
And they're doing that here.
I think so.
That's it.
Take your dolly.
But I love how she's prepared.
Like, this is her giving her up.
It's not the accident.
It's like he's a blanket, he's a knife, he's loopy, you know, like
I'm going to make sure that you're okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, she gives her knife.
Make sure you go straight for the hole, all right?
Rolls for a shower, Colomini looking at this script.
Oh, boy, we sold some shit.
In our time.
But they really kill it?
Like, they're so good.
And again, like, I, like, it was that moment where she says
where's my baby?
Or where's our baby?
And, you know, in when we come back from the break, which I think
was great.
And then here, like where she says, this is really heart
wrenching.
Because they they really genuine.
I love...
I love the tension of O'Brien picking up the weapon, right?
As Molly's younger Molly's going towards the porcelain.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't switch it off.
And the 2 mollies will be stuck together on the planet at the end
of time.
Oh how wonderful.
Look at look at like just that reaction from from Keiko watching
him hugging her.
Like she's, yeah, she's kind of too good for this show, really.
Do you get what I mean about hanging with these people?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I get it.
They're just great.
That's why I really...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, and the stars.
The star stars.
The wonder in her face there as well in her eyes.
The stars are where you live.
They're your home.
And so I'll always remember you when I look at them.
And so she kind of now knows a little bit about how much that
little girl loved Molly loves you.
Like she says, Molly loves you.
And then goes and then sees Molly because I don't think she
decides because...
Oh, look, oh, Rosalind.
Keiko is Miles puts his arms around her and she just loses herself
in his chair.
She's so overcome with grief.
Like, I keep putting myself in the mind of these people that want
war and battle and things like this.
Watching this going, what's happening to this week?
And there's you and me on the Virgin Tears going, oh, this is
amazing.
But I love this.
Like, I really love this and I do think it is spoiled by the scene
at the end because it tells the story.
She comes across the little girl.
She knows that it's Molly because she sees that they're wearing
the same bracelet and she remembers the portal from before.
And so she and she...
I just love the remote.
Molly Holme.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They use it 3 or 4 times throughout the episode and here's the
clincher.
And she goes, I want my mummy and daddy.
And like, Molly realised mummy and daddy are just there.
They're through there.
Go. And like, I think she...
Brian, no.
But either, yeah.
Don't took the weapon down.
I'm going to go quicker.
Molly's quicker.
What if Molly walks true?
and he shot her.
I was like, you are sick. she gives her loopy as well, which I
just think is wonderful.
And I think...
I mean, it is, it is version on tweet now, isn't it?
A little bit.
Yeah, yeah, but I reckon that they've earned that.
And, you know, like, it's not very sentimental because you've got
a kid there who can't do any sentiment, you know, and then, and
then she disappears.
And I think, Mark went, but she'll cease to exist.
I went, well done.
We did say that earlier in the episode.
But she doesn't cease to exist because that's her there.
And when...
So do you think you should end here?
Just here, with them.
I think so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Although you do need the B plot to be finished, don't you?
And we haven't had the B plot ending.
So we've got that scene and we couldn't possibly end with this
because although the B plot is really great, it's a comedy ending
but I do think we could have just ended with that.
I think I've developed a huge kink for DS9 B plots, you know.
I just think they're so fun.
Yeah, yeah.
They're usually just something absurd happening on the station.
You know, the no J consulting them.
That's awesome.
The great material continuum.
That's awesome.
Of holding the baby.
I mean, they're just great.
Frequently better than the main episode.
Well, I think in retrospect, this is the more important plot, isn't
it?
Because it feeds into next week after next.
Do you get lots of fabulous Terry being awesome?
He kept shaking his rattle.
Gung, gung, gung.
That is between Yoshi and me.
That's so cute.
So normal.
Oh boy, oh boy.
Or maybe you're not as bad with children as you thought, or as you
thought.
There we go.
I mean, it calls around now.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty good.
And like this is cheesy as well.
Do you know what I mean?
Like this is super cheesy, but like whatever. iPhone, I think
we've come to the conclusion that we don't mind about DS9 cheese.
No, no, I don't mind cheese generally. some crackers and serve it
up. absolutely.
And just, you know, she's so beautiful and he's so charming.
Look at him.
Michael, he is adorable.
No, it's almost a sad.
I mean, I'm glad we got Israel.
I love history.
Yeah, yeah, I love history too.
But yes, I am.
I am sad that she didn't see through the show.
Yeah, it gives us interesting things to do and Ezra is great.
Here we go. tying up everything.
I'm sure we can make Starfleet understand what we did.
Yeah, yeah, there'll be an inquiry, but you know what, those are
like.
Investigations will be here soon.
That's right.
Well, I see her soon, mommy.
This scene needs to happen because it establishes that the Molly
that we saw disappear isn't gone because she'll be back.
Do you think just the exposition needs to be cut out?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wonder if she realised that little girl she was looking at was
herself. just like, yes, she did realise that because we saw that
because of the bracelet You know what I mean?
I hope she realised, you know, in fact, she was going home.
Oh my god, really?
And that, like, I think that is super weird because that, like, and
their reaction, Do you know what I mean?
As if there is something of that Molly's experiences.
Do you know, like, because you have Julian doing that comedy line
about her anthropomorphising the landscape, as if she's learned to
live in the landscape, and now when Molly draws that landscape
that's there, as if that Molly isn't really gone, as if her
experiences are somehow there somewhere.
Now, this is the last torture O'Brien episode.
There isn't one in series seven.
There's not too much going on for torture O'Brien and Rando Plot
like this.
I am very pleased at the end of the last, we're going to do mean
things to O'Brien episode.
It's him looking at his family, utterly contented.
That's a lovely sort of parting shot on O'Brien.
Do you know, there is one thing I realise watching this with you
today is like this feeds into our favourite thing about Deep Space
9, the soap opera of it.
So basically the molly plot is it's a bit like in a soap opera
where, you know, an actor goes off for it for 10 years and then
decide to bring the character back.
The daughter comes back, the long lost daughter, but it's a new
actor playing it 10 years later. and how the hell do we deal with
them?
you know.
They're doing that in the A-plot.
And then obviously the B plot is pure soap plot.
Yeah, absolutely.
Someone, all, soap opera strokes sitcom.
Yeah, yeah, you know?
Yeah, absolutely.
Wolf holding the baby.
But as a result, we get all the melodrama that we're just there
for it.
And like you said, like every character gets something to do, every
character does something consistent with what they're like as a
character.
Um, you know, obviously that's how Quark's going to react.
Obviously that's how Odo's going to react.
All of that stuff is really good.
We get to spend time with the characters.
It's a dumb Star Trek plot that they is the sort of thing that you
would make fun of in a lower decks episode.
You know, you can't possibly go, go on a picnic without someone
falling into an Iconian time portal.
But it was pretty enjoyable.
Yeah, I really thought this was going to be adult.
I really thought we were going to rip this apart.
And instead we were reminded just why we love being with the
characters. exactly right.
Exactly right.
Go speak young, yeah.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
work out where we're going next.
We manage to find considerable enjoyment in an episode that is not
very highly regarded.
And so I'm going to see if we can do the same thing again, and so
we're going to watch an episode of Enterprise.
Oh, what is your obsession with choosing episodes of Enterprise?
I said I had a weird king to do a 9 sublaws.
You have got a more disturbing kink for choosing enterprises.
The clothes.
Is this something you particularly fancy in that show?
Well, yeah, obviously, because trip's really hard.
But also there's a chance of stuff that I haven't seen before and
stuff that I haven't got an opinion about yet and all of that is
kind of. you say trip?
No, you know, the pilot.
What's his name?
I never remember his name.
Mayweather, yeah.
Who cares?
He's so pretty.
He's barely in it, though.
I know, to be honest.
If he gets a lion, I...
That's a cry out in triumph.
All right.
Okay.
So I'm going to roll it, get ready for an episode title that you
don't recognise.
I don't know.
I think I'm a bit more clued up than you on Enterprise.
Come on, let's do it.
Okay.
So your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is The Crossing.
Season two, episode 18.
What a boring title.
The crossing. think I know what that is.
I think.
Is it one where they all have to go and hang out in the nacelles
or some bullshit because they're going through a space thing?
Or did I dream that?
That sounds like every episode of Enterprise to me.
I don't want to do the crossing.
Okay, we won't do the crossing.
Well, pick another one.
So boring.
I can't even bother to look up what it's about.
Okay.
Oh, this sounds very exciting.
Season two, episode three, minefield.
That might be the most generic title imaginable.
This is quite good.
I seem to remember.
Um, there's 2 episodes back to back and one of them, the
enterprise gets damaged and one of them is in a space, an
automated space station that obviously turns bad that's repairing
it.
And they're both fairly good.
I think this is the one where the enterprise gets damaged, but I
can't really remember much about it, but I do remember it's a sort
of, it's not a two-parter, but it's too linked episodes.
Okay, that's fun.
That's fun.
What do you think?
exploring.
Well, we have done a lot of free and four, haven't we?
You know, we can't keep going to where all the gold is.
No, no, no.
I'm happy to try too and sort of early too and see what they're
trying to do when they restart the show for a 2nd year.
All right, I'm happy for that.
Minefield then.
Let's dive balls deep into Braga and Burman.
Oh my god, please no.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed
by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 4th of February 2025 and released
on the 7th of February.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise, minefield.
I'll have to do.
Only on this podcast.
All the others are heterosexuals, that's why.
They're either women or heterosexuals.
I can't think of another gay Star Trek podcast anywhere.
Isn't that funny?
Whereas all the Doctor Who ones are gay.
No, not really.
Yeah, but then Doctor Who, it's like it's like the reverse, isn't
it?
Doctor Who... sort of pushed away both heterosexuality and
homosexuality for about 26 years.
Yeah.
Um, so that, I think that brought in, that made Gaitsville welcome
where Star Trek pushed heterosexuality for 30 years.
Um, and now everyone's, they're all okay.
Everyone will abold, you know.
What's going on?
We saw section 31.
There was Virgil, there was that gay Irish robot, Vulcan being
piloted by a tiny worm.
Michael Mill said something, you know, the other day on the Frida
Carlo episode I did of the book club, which really struck a chord
with me.
Um, when he said that, you know, if if all you're presented with
is your, how you live your life.
So if you're straight and all you're presented with is head
straight people, media, then when, sorry, inclusivity starts to
come in, it could start to feel like oppression.
Oh, yeah. you know, and I think that's what happens with Star Trek
right?
Oh, for sure.
It's just like, why am I even having to think about you?
Why am I even having to kind of pay any attention to your
organisation?
You have to for all those years?
Yeah, that's right.
And now we have to see this on our television.
Like, I think it's absolutely that.
And, you know, like we had to read ourselves into the media that
we were watching.
Do you know what I mean?
We were the intendant or we were, you know, plain simple Garak or
whatever because the show wasn't about us or people like us at
all.
And then discovery comes along and it is.
I loved Ira Bear calling himself to task in what you leave behind
when they talk about Karak.
And they go, you know, gay representation, tick, and he goes, what
are you doing?
He goes scribble that out and put a cross in that box.
He goes, I'm ashamed that we didn't push that.
He goes, I wasn't strong enough to stand up to the studio.
He goes, and I should have been.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, and now, you know, now it's much gayer, I think.
What's that?
Garak and Bashir at it in Lower Dex?
So the 2nd last episode of Lower Decks, they're travelling in a
version of the NXO one from a different reality and they're
travelling from reality to reality.
And that episode of the NXO one is full of Harry Kim's, for
instance, from different dimensions.
Only one of whom is a lieutenant and the other.
The lieutenant ends up being the villain of the episode.
But on that episode, they have, they have, um, Sid playing the 2nd
emergency medical holographic, from the 2nd EMA, from Dr. and he
is married to Garak.
Oh, yes.
From different realities.
They're married.
Wonderful.
Well, I'm glad we got there in the end, even if it wasn't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is it Sid playing it?
And Andrew.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yes, yeah.
And that's got, I mean, Blaylock in it, that episode.
Like, it's got everyone in it.
It's pretty great.
And it's, you watch, watch their scenes in like 6 and 7, um, Sid
and Andrew.
And they do play like there's something there.
Like they do, they just do.
Oh no, it's written as a friendship, but they play it.
Like the last scene in what you leave behind where he's comforting
him.
He's got his arms around him when all the Kardashians are dead.
That's, that's not like a friendship.
There's something more there.
But yeah, you're right.
I'm reading into it.
So, yeah, it's not exactly what we have because it's not there, but
you know, now it is there.
Now we get to see it.
I mean, that scene between Bashir and O'Brien.
I still don't know what that was all about.
Well, I say, I love Ezri so much, but I like you a bit more.
Yeah.
It's a little bit of a worry that, I think, because it is kind of
like that sort of, you know, because relationships between men, are
more important than relationships between men and women, you know
like even though we're stray, our sexual relationships are less
important because they have women in them.
I don't know.
You know, you're going to fancy anyone on DS9, it wouldn't be
O'Brien, would it?
That might be Bashir though.
No, but it's Bashir doing the fancying.
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, Cisco, surely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would be Cisco, but Julian...
Please keep all this in the tag.
Come on to Cisco.
Who's that under your desk?
It's Ensign Ford.
He's just, he's calming on the floor.
Yeah, he's just brought a pad round for me design.
Oh boy.
Good thing I wasn't writing it.