WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:51:15

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we are back at my first love.

3
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It's Star Trek the Next Generation, and it is very early on in its imperial phase with series 3, episode 4, who watches the watches.

4
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In fact, I think you said last time that you thought that this was the 1st episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation, to actually properly get it right.

5
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How did you find it this time round?

6
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Well, you know what, Nathan?

7
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Untitled Star Trek project has enjoyed a life of fine critique and conversation, and now you want me to sabotage that achievement, to take this podcast into the realms of fear and superstition and chaos.

8
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No.

9
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I will not do that.

10
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I love this episode and so much so that I can remember learning that ridiculous speech when I was like 13 years old or whatever I was.

11
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I think this may be the tipping point.

12
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I think this is the point where I think we've had a couple of good episodes already, one, 2, and 3 of season three.

13
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Yeah, but I think this might be the 1st episode of Star Trek and the Next Generation that gets everything right, absolutely everything right.

14
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And it's not the last time this season as well.

15
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So I think we're absolutely headed.

16
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We on the up, and this is, you know, this is quite an ascent they climb here.

17
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I mean, I think this is an absolutely remarkable episode.

18
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Like, I like Darmok Moore, I think, because it's higher concept and because of its focus on storytelling and maybe that relationship between Picard and Dathon is really very good.

19
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Darwok is more unconventional than this, isn't it?

20
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Yeah, that's right It really is unique.

21
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Whereas we do this a couple more times, don't we?

22
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Like, this is sort of like a go to a planet.

23
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The prime directive. you know, are we spoiling the development of these people?

24
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I think we may have already done this a couple of times already in its generations run.

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But I think that this does it incredibly well.

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And I think there's 2 reasons for that.

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One is the stroke of genius of making them proto-Vulcans.

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Now, whatever that means about how humanoids evolve in the galaxy or whatever, what it means is that visa are a bronze age people who are free of beliefs about the supernatural.

29
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And that's not a thing that we had on Earth, that is a new thing.

30
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But in Star Trek.

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We've often had the crew arrive and fall foul of some local religious group who will sacrifice them or wants to cause them harm in order to appease their gods or whatever.

32
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And here what happens is they take people who lack that and introduce that to them.

33
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And so they go from just ordinary people to Star Trek primitive people that we've seen over and over again.

34
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And so that becomes the problem, that they've introduced.

35
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And I think that's genius.

36
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I think when Lico starts to kind of say the gods must want us to do this, the Picard wants us to do this.

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The Picard will be angry at us. you know we need to find ways of appeasing the Picard.

38
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He's just behaving like a standard Star Trek primitive.

39
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And he wasn't like that at the beginning of the episode.

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But what I really like is he's not a bad man, he's just reacting to the circumstances that he's found himself in.

41
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He's woken up in heaven and for his misty-eyed vision, the Picard appeared and brought him back to life.

42
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Like it's reasonable.

43
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What he's thinking is happening is reasonable.

44
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That's not the usual approach in Star Trek either.

45
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Usually the religious zealots are nutcases, you know, that we're going, oh, please.

46
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That's exactly right.

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They're responding reasonably to new information.

48
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And because you get Neuria, who is the leader of the group, unbelievably great.

49
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The performance is just tremendous. so good And she agrees.

50
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She agrees that there's evidence for what Lico has experienced and stuff.

51
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So that's the one genius thing.

52
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And then the other genius thing, I think, is the way that this foreground human progress, and that's the central tenet of Star Trek, is that we get better, right?

53
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And so this episode is about how we get better.

54
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And so those scenes on the Enterprise, which are a lot like the scenes in 1st contact with Picard and Lily, I think, where Picard talks to Nuria about making hearts and making bows and improving and explains the difference between her and him on the basis that as time progresses, as history progresses, human beings get better.

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Now, we doubt that, that's probably not really what's happening.

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Certainly doesn't seem like that at the moment.

57
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But that's.

58
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Will you please look out the window, right?

59
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But that's Star Trek, and it's that that I love about Star Trek.

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And this, you know, that's what's in peril here is the march of progress.

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And perhaps thirdly, it's that religion is one of the things that stands in the way of that progress.

62
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And I think that's a really, really bold thing for an American TV program.

63
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I was going to say, how bold for the Americans to put out an anti-rich.

64
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And that's very clearly what it is.

65
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There's another thing as well that I think really marks this out, is that we've done some of these scenes before.

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You and I in person.

67
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We watched Justice, which is another episode where a member of a primitive society comes up onto the Enterprise, sees the planet from Orbit.

68
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But in that one, it's just so terribly written and performed.

69
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Paul Patrick Stewart is stiff as anything as he's walking around that member of the Edo.

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And you've literally got techno god in the sky, shaking the enterprise going, return my child.

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It's just hideous in comparison.

72
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This is so subtly dumb.

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The scenes where Nuria is walking around and she's just marvelling at the walls movie and the stars in the sky and just it's some of the most beautiful scenes I think we've done so far.

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It's just gorgeous.

75
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And poor Patrick Stewart, who is sublimely good in this episode.

76
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I thought he delivers.

77
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This might be the point, you know, where he unpacked his clothes.

78
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Yeah, I think so.

79
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He's gone.

80
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Oh, maybe we're on to something.

81
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This is actually really good.

82
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I'm going to stop having a stick up my butt and actually do some acting.

83
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And him trying to negotiate that very difficult situation that he's in and be sensitive and gentle with her as well.

84
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And within those scenes, I think you have one of the all-time best narrative rug pools in a next generation episode.

85
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And it's that bit where he thinks he's absolutely gotten through to her and then she turns around and says, in a very reasonable way, Picard, you know, we lost all these children.

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Please, in your benevolence, will you please bring them back to life?

87
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And the look on his face.

88
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It's not even a big dramatic moment.

89
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It's just like, oh god, I just cannot get through to these people.

90
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In fact, every ad break, every sort of ad break cliffhanger is like that.

91
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You know, like it's something new is happening and something shocking is happening, but it's not peril.

92
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Do you know what I mean?

93
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It's not some surprise of some kind.

94
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It's something developing in the understanding that the Mintarkins have, you know, you know, when religion 1st starts or when Picard 1st realises that the problem is going to be religion or where Nuria doesn't quite get what the limits of Picard's power are, all of that stuff.

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I don't want to douse the next generation with faint praise, but it is one of those rare occasions where some very deft rising is married with a really excellent guest cast and the 3rd level one, which this is superb, is its execution.

96
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They go outside in a beautiful location. a chunk of the episode.

97
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It's not even like one scene.

98
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It's a huge chunk of the episode.

99
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It looks absolutely beautiful.

100
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You've got a wonderful score in this episode as well.

101
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The music and how often do we get to say that?

102
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Yeah, yeah.

103
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I just think on every level it's firing on all cylinders. brilliant.

104
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It feels like a mission statement.

105
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It does.

106
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It feels like, okay, let's pour everything into this.

107
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Let's see what we can do.

108
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And then, you know, they look at this and go, right, now we're going to do yesterday's Enterprise, and now we're going to do best of both worlds, and it just gets better and better and better.

109
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Well, I think we should go, Ian.

110
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What do you think?

111
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I think so too.

112
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I shall be revering you as a goal by the end of the episode. got the hair for it.

113
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The Nathan.

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Before we go in, you know, I have a fledgeling podcast, you know, which is on its last legs.

115
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Please, the Nathan.

116
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Will you nurse it back to hell for me?

117
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I can't do that.

118
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All right.

119
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You bitch.

120
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Okay.

121
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I will count as in.

122
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I should have said after all my efforts, I still can't get through to you.

123
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You're still no good at this.

124
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I barely make anyone listen to my own podcast.

125
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All right.

126
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Okay.

127
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

128
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Now, the music is Ron Jones, I think, and I didn't check, but it just sounds like him because it has that way of being, um, like, like there's some kind of anticipation, something is going to go wrong and we can't tell what, there's a level of urgency here.

129
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But it's sort of gentle.

130
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

131
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It underscores a lot of it, but it is, there's, there's like a nice flow to the music in a way that, you know, gum series 5.

132
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We are just doing those dramatic, you know, going out to the ad breaks.

133
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

134
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This, it's continuous and it's kind of useful as well.

135
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It's really, it's really probably good.

136
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I mean, you and I both have admitted to having the best of both worlds soundtrack at some point somewhere in our house.

137
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Yeah, and Ron Jones is pretty good, I think.

138
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But he's very good here.

139
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Org for you might be the best thing he ever wrote.

140
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Yeah, yeah.

141
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Yeah, it is pretty good.

142
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We have engaged the Borg.

143
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Oh, sorry, that's not necessary.

144
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So we get all of this stuff where we establish who them in Tarkin's R and now we have these sort of terrible scientists that they always make fun of their sort of stupid uniforms in lower decks.

145
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You know, you get to be a federation scientist and you wear a uniform and stuff.

146
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And this, I mean, they make fun of them, but they still draw and they make them wear them.

147
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It's so great.

148
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They're explaining.

149
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I love this guy who climbs out the window.

150
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He doesn't quite, now we're on location.

151
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Holy fuck, we're on location.

152
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And look, he literally falls... the window, falls down the rocks.

153
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Good for you, Palm.

154
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Later on, when Lee goes up there.

155
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He literally goes, whoa, the way down.

156
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I hope they had a crash back waiting for him or something.

157
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But you know what?

158
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Talk about setting up the plot, right?

159
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This is the civilisation.

160
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These are the people we're going to see.

161
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There's a problem.

162
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Let's get there.

163
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

164
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But we don't can't quite know where we're going yet.

165
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Do you know what I mean?

166
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Like we don't quite know what's going to happen.

167
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And it, well, no, because it could still be just all set on that ballroom base.

168
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

169
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Your typical next generation episode will be spending a lot of time in that gray base.

170
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Although we did have that impressive bit of location shooting.

171
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And remember what we said about series 2, which has one episode that has location, um, shooting in it and it's it's Picard riding a horse on the holodeck or something.

172
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It's so bad. like it's so cheap.

173
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It really...

174
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I was saying to, uh, my other off was watching this for me and he was, and I was going, look how beautiful the location work is.

175
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You know, it's absolutely stunning.

176
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He goes, and because he watches a lot of TV, right?

177
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where they go outside all the time the time.

178
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You know, and that's not an unusual thing.

179
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I said, yeah, but Star Trek does it like 3 times a year and he went, no, it doesn't.

180
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I went, I'm probably sure it does. yeah Patrick Shuart, he had a high wage.

181
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They couldn't afford any location work.

182
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So we go back here a fair amount.

183
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So we've been here for shadows and symbols, I think.

184
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Is that what you were saying the other day?

185
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Dr. Wykuff.

186
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Please come to isolation room four.

187
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And I think that Raffi is hanging out here as well when Picard 1st picks her up in series one of Picard.

188
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Is it where that fabulous gourd is as well in a ring?

189
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Obviously, originally the place where the Gorn was.

190
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All the best shows have been there.

191
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Generation's swear too?

192
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Oh, oh, is it?

193
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I think that it is...

194
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I think we do go back there quite a bit, I think.

195
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And it is just, like in a way, it is, it's Star Trek than Next Generation saying we're going back to basics.

196
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And arena is a similar sort of story.

197
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Ruffy went there as well.

198
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Didn't it?

199
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Possibly.

200
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End of series 6. is your gift.

201
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Oh, okay.

202
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Oh, 1st slayer out in the desert.

203
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Yeah.

204
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Oh, now this was the one part of the production that I could find fault with, and that is that terrible backdrop out the window. silly funny, isn't it?

205
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When Lico pops his head up.

206
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It is really funny.

207
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Yeah My God, we're outside again.

208
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Let's just bask in the sunshine for a second.

209
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Yeah, here we go.

210
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And I just think as well, though, right?

211
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The look of the Mint Harkens, how they're dressed. pants I don't know.

212
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I just think...

213
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Wow, they've all got these shirts, right?

214
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which are open around the V-neck.

215
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So you when Riker wears.

216
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Oh, he's got a gray hair.

217
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You can say all of his lovely bushy, hairy chest.

218
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Oh, it's marvellous.

219
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But I mean, look at this.

220
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Look how they dress the location.

221
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Yeah, yeah.

222
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Yep, yep.

223
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I think it's really.

224
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I think it's great And it's very rare to have 2 characters who aren't one of our regulars have a scene.

225
00:15:21.779 --> 00:15:24.720
We end up getting used to that in things like Deep Space 9.

226
00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:27.000
But I wonder if it's ever happened at this point.

227
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:28.919
It isn't very common at all.

228
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.700
A very quick shorthand because it's father and daughter.

229
00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.039
So I've got an immediate relationship we can buy into.

230
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:37.679
And the death of the mother, which is important as well.

231
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:38.820
Do you know what I mean?

232
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:45.120
to Lico and to Nuria, you know, like because it becomes a thing about what gods can do.

233
00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:47.940
You know, um, yeah, yeah.

234
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.200
Will you check out the lighting in this episode as well.

235
00:15:52.259 --> 00:15:59.399
Because there is a different style of lighting in series 3 of the Next Generation, I think, than any of the other series.

236
00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:06.659
And like the scene set in the Mid the Mintarken habitat, whatever you call it, in their room.

237
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.600
So sort of cinematically done.

238
00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:22.620
Day and night and lightning, and I don't know, it's just very clear where you are at different, not that, you know, go back to series one and skin of evil, you know, where it was just that coloured backdrop and that's all you got and the overhead lighting.

239
00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:23.340
Yeah.

240
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:24.480
They're learning.

241
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:26.519
They're really learning how to make science fiction.

242
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:42.299
There are things that I like about series one and 2 because it is the sort of direction that you never really see again, and there's a way that a house style develops, which hasn't is only really sort of falling into place at this and hasn't really become just the new look.

243
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:51.360
So, I mean, this is impressive visually and more impressive perhaps than anything that we've seen since the pilot, perhaps.

244
00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:59.460
I think it's more impressive musically, though, because, like, there are other episodes of Next Generation, though, impressive visually, but there aren't that many.

245
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:00.899
They're impressive musically.

246
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:02.519
Oh, here we goes.

247
00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:02.940
Look.

248
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.319
Yeah, he sticks his head up.

249
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:05.339
Adorable.

250
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:05.819
Look at that.

251
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:16.079
Did you notice as well, that fella, the doctor that's taken up the injured man, who just stood there for ages waiting for me beamed up?

252
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.799
Dr. Crusher got out of the way, you know?

253
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:23.880
We're still in the 90s, are we?

254
00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:25.680
Oh, look at that.

255
00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:27.359
What a fool.

256
00:17:27.420 --> 00:17:28.980
Oh yeah, no, it's great.

257
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.599
That's not him, though.

258
00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:32.279
Surely I want to freeze that.

259
00:17:32.339 --> 00:17:33.720
That was amazing, wasn't it?

260
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:35.880
Yeah, and like his twitching and stuff.

261
00:17:35.940 --> 00:17:43.440
So this guy is called Ray Wise, and he does come back to Star Trek in a very...

262
00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:44.160
I recognise him.

263
00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:47.640
He's Arturus in hope and fear.

264
00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.920
So he's...

265
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.720
Bigheaded alien from hope and fear.

266
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:54.059
Much less impressive performance.

267
00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:55.079
Oh bless his heart.

268
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:56.279
I quite like that episode though.

269
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.099
We'll get that.

270
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

271
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:02.579
Dr. Bev's on location, Lou.

272
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.200
Oh my god, it's the 1st time I've gone outside.

273
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:14.579
I wonder, you know how you say sometimes when people are on location that their performances are more naturalistic than when they're in a studio.

274
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.559
I wonder if that's true of gamesman fan.

275
00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:18.539
She didn't do too much there for us to notice, really.

276
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.359
She was doing the sort of thing that she does quite well generally.

277
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:25.319
Like, it's when she's sort of explaining someone's prognosis.

278
00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:33.720
No, just kind of, you know, treating someone for an emergency and ordering a beam up and stuff, something where it's clear what what's going on.

279
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:40.920
There is, there's a couple of moments, which, of course, I will quote as we go through where she's going, Jean-Luc.

280
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.000
We must go down.

281
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:45.779
We must find Palmer. bless her.

282
00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:48.000
Oh, yeah.

283
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.319
Even that very subtle effect of the observation window in the rock.

284
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:53.700
Yeah, looks really great.

285
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.180
Like, I know they might have tied it up for the...

286
00:18:57.180 --> 00:18:58.019
I don't know, actually.

287
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:08.279
Of course, we will see a better version of that at the beginning of insurrection, Star Trek insurrection, which also has a duck blind, like has a group of people who are being observed from behind a duck blind.

288
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.099
This is way better than...

289
00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:13.559
Oh, God. yeah Yeah, yeah, no, miles fed.

290
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.380
Look at that, lady.

291
00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:16.799
I know.

292
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:17.640
It's so impressive.

293
00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:20.279
Hell of a wig, isn't it, that she's got happening there?

294
00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:23.279
Grace Kelly was in sick bay for a 2nd there, you know?

295
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.460
And then her handsome doctor here.

296
00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:31.619
Don't you love how grumpy Patrick Stewart is right this entire episode?

297
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.839
I don't think he raises a smile till the last scene.

298
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:39.359
Well, I really like this actually, where he's actually kind of annoyed because she's the doctor.

299
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:40.740
She can just order a beam up.

300
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.880
She doesn't need to ask him.

301
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:46.740
So she's made that decision without his permission and she doesn't need his permission.

302
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:50.579
And she's going, before you say anything, blah, blah, blah.

303
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.559
We'd already done it, you know, like...

304
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.140
And he goes, why didn't you let him die?

305
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:55.799
Yeah, yeah.

306
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:56.940
Yeah.

307
00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:59.640
That's a good line.

308
00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:02.160
Her her answer is good too.

309
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:07.259
Um, and I guess, like, she's right, isn't she?

310
00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:19.200
She's right, but we need to emphasise how important this cultural contamination is because we haven't really seen that sort of thing happening quite the way that it happens here.

311
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:24.480
Oh, that line there, can I just say, I guess I am familiar with that.

312
00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:27.660
Dr. Pulaski's work. memory, erasing technique.

313
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:29.700
That harpy. that took my job last year.

314
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:30.539
Did that work?

315
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:31.200
I am aware of it.

316
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.960
It is a reference to an actual episode, but I can't remember what episode.

317
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:34.920
It is.

318
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:36.420
I can't remember which one it is.

319
00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:36.779
No.

320
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:42.299
But, um, and then I like the fact that she, she literally says the owl in this...

321
00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:43.319
I'm not sure if it's got to work.

322
00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:45.480
No, we'll give it a go though, you know?

323
00:20:45.539 --> 00:20:48.359
The 2nd he wakes up, he's like, I remember everything.

324
00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:51.900
Oh, this is just wonderful.

325
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.539
When he wakes up, the way this is shot from the bed.

326
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.420
Looking up at Picard with the light.

327
00:20:57.420 --> 00:21:04.380
The blow around him, the soft light, and he's giving orders, like he's ordering people around, you know.

328
00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:06.779
It's just like, you know, the usual.

329
00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:11.700
The stock Star Trek god is to have a godlike being come in and affect things.

330
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.160
This is just looking at it from this direction.

331
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:15.720
There's so much more interesting.

332
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:16.559
Yeah.

333
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:16.980
Yeah.

334
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:24.240
Because it's the effect of a god on a society rather than a god just manipulating a society.

335
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:24.839
No, exactly.

336
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.119
Yeah, that is so much more...

337
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.920
It's really, it's so good.

338
00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:31.200
Like, I just can't get over how good it is.

339
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:33.779
Like, it's that myth of progress and stuff.

340
00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:37.920
Like that's, I just love that about Star Trek.

341
00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:39.779
That's why I watch Star Trek.

342
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:46.140
You know, it's what sets Star Trek apart from space shows is that we get better and that's what it's about.

343
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.380
And in a way, 90s Star Trek forgets that.

344
00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:51.539
Um, but this.

345
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:52.559
It really does.

346
00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:58.559
Do you know, I was thinking about this because so much of this episode is talk and it's riveting, yeah.

347
00:21:58.619 --> 00:22:03.839
And they trust for it to be interesting as talk without putting in any action sequences.

348
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:06.420
There's him firing the boat at the end and that is it.

349
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:14.460
If this was a mid-season Voyager episode, you would have spaceships coming in at some and shooting or a gun battle or something.

350
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.720
I just think they trust the intelligent viewer at this point.

351
00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:27.119
But it's also because Voyage is in a hostile place and trying to get home so it's never on missions like this, like it never interacts with people like this.

352
00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:35.579
Think about how insulting the native inhabitants of the planet on basics in basics.

353
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.579
You know, how insults are now portrayal.

354
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.539
Yeah.

355
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.259
Well, they're just sort of going, oh, God, they're waiting spears.

356
00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:44.039
It's super embarrassing.

357
00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:51.240
Whereas these people, and that's really interesting too. like bronze stage. like you look at their their hunts and stuff are all made out of wood.

358
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:57.180
It's hard to imagine that much would survive for future archeologists to see.

359
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:58.500
Do you know what I mean?

360
00:22:58.559 --> 00:22:59.759
They have some metal tools.

361
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:01.079
Most things are made of wood.

362
00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:09.599
You know, like it's, it's literally bronze age and, but they are, they have sophisticated clothes, they're weaving, all of that sort of thing.

363
00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:12.480
They build buildings, comfortable buildings.

364
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.900
And that's part of the story that's being told, isn't it?

365
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.859
That, that, it's about progress and we see them part of the way there.

366
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:27.000
Just think as well, the drama inherent in this episode is they want to paint him as the villain, right?

367
00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:33.539
By the end, he is pointing a weapon at somebody and saying, we will go back to the old ways and all of this, but it's so plausible.

368
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.140
He has woken up in a situation he cannot possibly comprehend.

369
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:44.759
He's trying to interpret that in the only way, you know, how, by looking to history to similar things that they used to believe back then.

370
00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:46.500
And he's bringing it.

371
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:52.680
So now, I just think he, I just think they ducked a bullet by making him such a plausible character.

372
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:53.579
And such a likeable one.

373
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:54.900
I mean he's lost his wife.

374
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.640
He's bringing up.

375
00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:57.720
He's lovely with his kids still.

376
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:02.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah. bringing up his daughter by himself All of that stuff is great.

377
00:24:02.220 --> 00:24:06.599
And like, we'll get there, but the moment where he realises what he's done.

378
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:08.640
Oh my god.

379
00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:11.160
That is an amazing...

380
00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:12.180
She holds up the blouse.

381
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:12.480
Yep.

382
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.160
And he starts crying.

383
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:15.720
Like he just starts crying.

384
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:16.680
It's so good.

385
00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:17.700
So good.

386
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.400
Oh I love this.

387
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:21.480
Watch this now.

388
00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:23.339
When Troy and Rocker beam down, right?

389
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:28.079
And Marina Sosis and Jonathan Frakes look at each other and smile like a massive smile.

390
00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:29.579
We're outside.

391
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:30.359
My God.

392
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.299
I think it's more, it's more, what the hell do we look like?

393
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:37.680
That's the smile, yeah.

394
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:39.119
They're having real fun.

395
00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:40.500
Yeah, a lot of chest hair.

396
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:41.519
How did I notice that?

397
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:42.539
My God.

398
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.160
In fact, look at those shorts.

399
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:45.960
He's swinging to the right right now.

400
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:49.319
John, look at his lovely butt.

401
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:55.859
I'm sorry, guys, but and look, oh my god, that is a really gorgeous shot camera shot.

402
00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.880
Yeah, with that rock.

403
00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:59.940
That's the rock that everyone kind of remembers.

404
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.880
But they're shooting from below.

405
00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:04.559
They're moving the camera.

406
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.319
These are not things we often do with the next generation.

407
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:08.819
We've got more mountains.

408
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.519
This comet, this stuff is great too.

409
00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:26.220
Where, where, um, she says that Mintarken men walk behind the women, not to not because of subservience, but because you need to negotiate with the woman in order to get the man's services.

410
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:33.480
And Riker smiles hugely and goes, yes, that is a very sensible ration, which...

411
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:36.720
Like, he's thinking, I might stay there.

412
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.960
I might vacation here if I can.

413
00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:43.980
But, you know, we did Angel one.

414
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:45.900
We've done Planet other women before.

415
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:47.640
It was fucking hideous.

416
00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:49.680
This is a matriarchal society.

417
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:51.900
It's so much, it's just so much better done.

418
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:52.380
Yeah.

419
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.599
It's very light matriarchy, isn't it?

420
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.680
Because you've got the old guy.

421
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:57.420
But that's how it should be.

422
00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.339
And you've got...

423
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:08.519
Like, in a way, making a matriarchal kind of undersells, the fact that Nuria is made the leader, and she's just the leader because she's incredible.

424
00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:10.319
Like, it's such a great performance.

425
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:11.160
She's so good.

426
00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:15.599
I was getting sort of Carolyn Seymour vibes from her.

427
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:16.380
She's...

428
00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:18.720
Oh, it was Carolyn Seymour for a 2nd.

429
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.660
And she opened her mouth and that plummy English accent did not come.

430
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:26.460
No, and I knew that Pamela, I knew that the Carolyn Seymour's only into episodes.

431
00:26:27.059 --> 00:26:35.579
She is in an episode of Space 1999 that I don't remember saying called Dorzak for God's sake.

432
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.619
Is it series two?

433
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.339
I don't remember.

434
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:39.539
I meant to look it up.

435
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:40.319
Doors like that.

436
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.720
It sounds like a Freiburger episode to me.

437
00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:47.220
I did see the Picard.

438
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.140
Yeah, you restored me back to life.

439
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.700
It's so interesting.

440
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:52.559
It's so good isn't it?

441
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.779
And what I love as well is I mean, I messaged you about this.

442
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:04.619
There's loads of, we're not told in dialogue everything that's happening in this episode all the way through.

443
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:12.059
There's a whole sequence in a minute where Troy comes in, takes them all away and there's just no words at all.

444
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.279
It's all just playing out like it would in a field.

445
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.539
Yeah, yeah.

446
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:19.980
Yeah, Star Trek tends to really overrely on dialogue, doesn't it?

447
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:25.140
And this rational thing, you know, like maybe it's a dream and he says, well, that's not reasonable.

448
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:26.460
People don't share dreams.

449
00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:33.599
And then Riker says, well, is that any, you know, more less reasonable than believing in God.

450
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:43.619
And maybe he was going to win then, but then they drag Palmer in in order to add some more. ups the states brilliantly, doesn't it?

451
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.619
Because we are trying to avoid cultural contamination.

452
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:48.119
Here's the bloody poison.

453
00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:54.299
And the life is at stake. you know, like the guy and.

454
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:58.619
But this, the contamination is worse than we expected.

455
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.920
The Mintarkans are starting to believe in a god.

456
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.440
And I always wish we'd gone to the ad.

457
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:06.599
The one that they've chosen. is you.

458
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:07.680
That's a great way.

459
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:10.619
I mean, Picard's like, it looks like, utterly horrified.

460
00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:13.380
We thought Andrew was bad.

461
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:14.640
Now it's me.

462
00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:17.099
Imagine if it was mariner from lower action.

463
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:19.619
Yes, it's so great.

464
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:29.460
And then this guy who is the world's shitest anthropologist, who just says, let's just go and get Palmer and then we'll hand them the 10 commandments and then we'll go on our way.

465
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:30.839
It's just like, you fucking kidding me?

466
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.579
Watch freaks and certes as well.

467
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:41.819
They are really relaxed in this episode in a way that we're not usually in Star Trek next generation.

468
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:43.619
I don't know.

469
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:45.059
There's just some magic in the air here.

470
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:49.500
It's almost like everybody, everybody knew this was really good.

471
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:51.059
Yeah, yeah.

472
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:52.980
I wonder why.

473
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:59.700
It is really good, but like, like in a sense, it is just the sort of same sort of thing that we usually do.

474
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.279
But I think it's the stakes, isn't it?

475
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:07.140
And like, I think one of the greatest moments in Star Trek is the bit at the end.

476
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.839
Well, obviously, obviously, where they're just talking. like there's no pretence.

477
00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:14.940
We're just, we've just told you the truth.

478
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.380
Here's why we were here, you know, one day...

479
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:20.880
Oh, the very last thing you mean.

480
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.039
Magic. so good.

481
00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:26.759
Always remember my people. where he goes, well, always.

482
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.000
And then his hand just closes around her.

483
00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:31.619
Oh my god, it's beautiful.

484
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:34.200
But like, not just the actors.

485
00:29:34.259 --> 00:29:36.000
I just think the designers, everybody.

486
00:29:36.059 --> 00:29:38.759
It's just giving this 100% for one week.

487
00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:39.299
Yeah.

488
00:29:39.299 --> 00:29:39.839
Yeah.

489
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:43.980
Yeah, imagine if they hadn't shot it on location.

490
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.579
Yes, it's this.

491
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:51.119
This is a set, but I would I could believe this wasn't like...

492
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:52.140
Oh, they do good lighting.

493
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:57.480
Like they do good sort of outdoor style lighting, but, um, yeah, there's a set.

494
00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:05.160
But this conversation where they start to theorise about what God wants and what God can do for them.

495
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:07.619
Like, and that's the clincher.

496
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.440
Yeah, this is what he could do for us.

497
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:11.460
We lost all those people.

498
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:12.359
Yeah, yeah.

499
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:16.079
Oh, I love this secret.

500
00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:20.579
I love the music in this series as well, where they tie up the old man and take Palmer away.

501
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:22.259
Yeah, that's really great.

502
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:31.740
But this thing now, they're tying someone up and like you've got Riker and Troy saying, this man's a, you know, like, why are you tying a person up?

503
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:40.500
This is not what you would have done 5 minutes ago, but now that God has come in, this stranger has to be tied up and you're tying him up in order to please God.

504
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:46.799
You know, the people start behaving like Star Trek primitive races, you know.

505
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.339
Have you noticed how Palmer's face is?

506
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:53.579
It was granite gray as the Voyager observation room.

507
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:54.599
Yeah, yeah.

508
00:30:54.660 --> 00:30:56.519
It doesn't look well at all, does it?

509
00:30:56.579 --> 00:30:58.799
It's probably just a bit dirty.

510
00:30:58.859 --> 00:31:01.380
And even this is all plausible.

511
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.119
We know she checks the sundial.

512
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:04.920
So she has to go back and check it.

513
00:31:04.980 --> 00:31:09.900
She then sees Ryka taking Palmer away and then they capture Troy. all makes pence.

514
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:11.640
Yeah, it's really good.

515
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:13.980
But yes, we just have to let this person go.

516
00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:15.059
Like it's wrong to do this.

517
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:15.839
This is wrong.

518
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:19.319
I wonder what that old man's thinking right now.

519
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:20.460
We played a game?

520
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:21.359
What's happening?

521
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.059
So much location work.

522
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:25.380
I can't believe it. wonderful.

523
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:29.460
But that's it.

524
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.160
They've gone, right, we can't go outside for the next 15 episodes.

525
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:34.380
We've used all the location.

526
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.900
But it was worth it. absolutely.

527
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:38.819
And that little lawn in the survivors.

528
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:40.680
That was it. all we could afford this year.

529
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:45.180
Oh, my God.

530
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:45.720
Do you know what?

531
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:47.279
I've just remembered there's a bit in a minute.

532
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:56.880
I'll forget when it's on, so I'm just going to say it now, where Data's trying to talk to Troy, but she's surrounded by Mint Harkens, and she's just going, I love that.

533
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.640
And he goes, does that does that mean affirmative?

534
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:00.539
Yes, data.

535
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:02.880
Yes, so stupid.

536
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:07.140
I thought to myself, are they even getting the banter?

537
00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:12.900
Because trust me, we've done some crass jokes that date is expressed in series one or two.

538
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

539
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:14.880
Yeah.

540
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.839
I like this too.

541
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:17.819
I think this is really well done.

542
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.000
Like, it's just like all he has to do is hide for a second.

543
00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:26.220
He just has to be out of sight for a 2nd and it's just terrifically well done, I think.

544
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:31.200
Like, it's just well shot, you know, like, we can easily understand what's supposed to be going on.

545
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:42.599
There's a great moment where he's like, um, this guy, um, the, the, who has a name, but I can't remember what it is, the guy with the bow.

546
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:48.059
We can see, he can, we can see Riker, but he can't, in shot.

547
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:48.720
It's really good.

548
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:53.519
There's just this very handy nook here for him to put palm already.

549
00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:55.380
But it needs to be there.

550
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.720
Like it actually seems to be actually there.

551
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.059
Did you notice as well?

552
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.859
in one of those high angle shots.

553
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.819
They got the sky in.

554
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:04.019
I bet they waited for a while.

555
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:06.720
They managed to get an eagle flying around just at the top there.

556
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:09.240
There's always an eagle when they shoot here.

557
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:11.460
Yeah, but see, that's great in that shot.

558
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:22.319
You know, like and and he, you know, he's walking along and and Riker disappears and then he walks in front of where Riker was, like that's actually quite well done, I think.

559
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:26.640
They just can't make the beamings dynamic, though, can they?

560
00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:28.440
They like have to hold their position.

561
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.940
Yeah, how 5 seconds.

562
00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:39.240
But, you know, in that shot without a cut, he walks in front of where they were, where the beam in happened, and he was in shot during the beam in.

563
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:42.839
So that is actually technically a little bit more impressive than it seems.

564
00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:55.259
I need to say this, you know, because I don't say it very often because look, you see Riker there in his normal uniform, I don't fancy him at all, but as a mentor, I want to have sex with him so badly.

565
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:57.059
I don't know what it is about.

566
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:58.200
That's a ment talking.

567
00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:00.779
I think the hairy chest has. got messy hair, you know?

568
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:02.339
sort of hairy and messy.

569
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.759
It reminds me a bit of that evil Romulan or is it Vulcan?

570
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:07.079
Oh, that's racist.

571
00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:08.219
In Picard.

572
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:10.559
Oh, you mean Harry Tread away?

573
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:11.219
You the one I mean?

574
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:11.699
Yeah, yeah.

575
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.019
Oh, yeah, very pretty.

576
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:21.599
Okay, we're about to head into the best part of the series now where Picard realises, oh, okay, I'm going to have to talk to these primitives.

577
00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:28.139
Yeah, yeah. and try and convince them that I'm not a gold, which, as a one-line pitch for a Star Trek episode, is gone.

578
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:28.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

579
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:39.719
But I think I think that what's great about it is that they never patronise or belittle these people, like they never think that they're stupid, like at any point.

580
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.519
There is one, Nate Fern, right?

581
00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:42.000
would have done that.

582
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:44.639
Well, I think that it helps that they're proto-Vulcans.

583
00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:51.539
Like, I think that calling them proto Vulcans before we even meet them gives us sort of some level of expectation.

584
00:34:51.599 --> 00:35:06.960
And given that this is, you know, people who are rational, who are now deciding to adopt a religion, that even this, you know, I don't want to... before she said that line, he said that he was going to hurt her.

585
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:11.280
And then she had about 5 seconds where you could just see her thinking.

586
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:12.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

587
00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:14.039
It's just it's such a great...

588
00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:14.760
It's really good.

589
00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:18.179
I just I feel like I've seen her in something before.

590
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:25.559
She is she's got a real... she's absolutely a superb guest star that maybe we overlook.

591
00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:38.460
Anyone who thinks we're talking sort of hyperbole, please go back and watch justice and watch that performance as that woman is walking around the enterprise and then watch because it's that sort of childlike glee she has in a minute.

592
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:44.280
Yeah, where she's like, oh, as the doors open, you know, and I'm just like, oh, mate, this is just perfect.

593
00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:45.900
But she's clearly very smart.

594
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.900
Like she's very smart, she's thoughtful.

595
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:53.880
She's a good leader, and she gets it so quickly, which is why the rug pool works so well.

596
00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:56.639
And a little bit scared as well.

597
00:35:56.699 --> 00:35:59.639
It's all of that in there They do it again, don't they?

598
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:00.420
Homeward?

599
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:01.139
Is it homeward?

600
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.679
Where that guy... less effectively.

601
00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:07.559
Yeah, again, not very well, but they do do it.

602
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:13.619
But this, like they fucking anthropologist is kind of saying, why don't you go down and just tell them how to live.

603
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.360
It's just like, are you fucking kidding?

604
00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:16.320
Like, why?

605
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:17.280
I'm a captain.

606
00:36:17.340 --> 00:36:18.599
I'm like a navy captain.

607
00:36:18.659 --> 00:36:23.219
I'm telling you your job, like the whole point of the duck blind was not to have this happen.

608
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:33.119
And interestingly, I was watching his performance, and this is the sort of stock performance you get in next year. performance this man's given, you know?

609
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:38.340
You can actually make the comparison between someone given a great and an average performance in this episode.

610
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.159
And then like, oh, here's my speech.

611
00:36:41.219 --> 00:36:42.960
Yeah, yeah.

612
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.139
Wow, you expect me to sabotage that achievement.

613
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:47.099
It's so good.

614
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:49.139
Send them back to the Dark Ages.

615
00:36:49.199 --> 00:37:05.699
But then there's that list of things he says that the, that religion could lead to in holy wars and inquisitions and stuff. and, and, and, and, when he hears the list, but that's the list of things that it actually has led to, you know, in our history.

616
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:08.760
Yeah, yeah.

617
00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:10.500
And that's the other thing too.

618
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:23.039
You remember when there was that sort of new atheism thing and it was Dawkins and Dennet and Richard, Sam Harris and all of these sort of terrible people and it was all kind of, oh, you know, religion's not real and we've just discovered that and it's like a big deal.

619
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:26.699
And like this, the assumption here is that religion isn't true.

620
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:29.940
You know, no one on Star Trek, the next generation is religious.

621
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:38.400
And when we do introduce religion, we introduce space religion where there are real gods who are wormhole aliens, you know.

622
00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:46.079
So we never have just religion where people believe things that aren't real because of tradition or...

623
00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:46.619
Yeah, yeah.

624
00:37:46.679 --> 00:38:01.079
So, so, but the assumption here is that religion isn't true and that that the fact that religion is re is breaking out among these people is a huge disaster and we have to find a way of fixing it.

625
00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:07.920
And how you see that so explicitly by descent amongst the mentor because violence...

626
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:08.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

627
00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:13.019
And it is like it's them theorising about what God wants.

628
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.380
You know, God wants us to mistreat this person.

629
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.599
God wants us to sacrifice her.

630
00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:33.420
You know, we have to harm Troy in order to placate God, because Palmer disappeared, you know, like all of that kind of calculus that they're engaging in, which is mental, like awful.

631
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:36.119
Um, you know, has to be stopped.

632
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:36.840
It's amazing.

633
00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:41.579
Like, we've got a new religious way of thinking, breaking out among these people, and we have to stop it.

634
00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:46.380
We can't hear it in this scene.

635
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:52.860
But there's a violin that comes in as she's exploring the ship is just beautiful.

636
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:54.840
She's so good, isn't she?

637
00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:55.860
She's so good.

638
00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:59.579
It's when he's like, oh, God, do I say my name?

639
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:01.139
I am Jean-Luc.

640
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:02.340
Picard.

641
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:05.460
You know, the Picard.

642
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:11.460
I love history action too, where he says, no, no, you mustn't kneel to me.

643
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:14.340
That's and that's the cliffhanger.

644
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.679
She's kneeling to him. the cliffhanger.

645
00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:19.980
The exchange I love is you do not wish it.

646
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:21.960
I do love it. do not deserve it.

647
00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:22.920
It's so good.

648
00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:26.280
And even just that, like, hold my hand.

649
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:33.420
And I do love the fact that she's an older woman and he's an older man.

650
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.480
Like there's roughly similar age is, I think.

651
00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:38.219
I don't know, but do you know what I mean?

652
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:39.599
She's not a young woman.

653
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:42.239
Um, and just...

654
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:48.840
Ah, Tingo, caution this when he's going... length of my hand, holding her hand. it's beautiful.

655
00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:49.920
Oh, my word.

656
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:54.179
That stuff about connection that I said. in Dharmok.

657
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:54.960
You get it here.

658
00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:57.480
But like it's so tender.

659
00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:01.019
It's so, this is Star Trek.

660
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:03.960
I'll tell you what, this is Star Trek during what Star Trek does best.

661
00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:11.460
But for me, it doesn't have that tweeness that we've seen creep into other examples of things that we've watched, you know?

662
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:13.500
It's just very sensitive.

663
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:14.039
Yeah, yeah.

664
00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:15.420
I think it's beautiful.

665
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:18.179
Look, he gently just pushes her face.

666
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:18.719
Look at me.

667
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.480
I am not a supreme being.

668
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.980
Oh, I love the way she jumps when they're done. a wondrous place.

669
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:28.559
Even the walls avail your command.

670
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:33.420
Jesus, their doors, you have doors, you know, like it's fine.

671
00:40:33.659 --> 00:40:35.400
And do you know what?

672
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:46.500
Even my overall, the staunchest critic of Star Trek, watched this scene in a minute where he's explaining about progress, about going from bows to weapons.

673
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.099
And he, even he said, that was very well written.

674
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:50.639
Yeah, yeah.

675
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:53.280
I was like, bloody hell, the highest brace possible.

676
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:55.559
It is really good, isn't it?

677
00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:57.719
It's really, really properly good.

678
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:06.119
It's like, you know, I would have thought that would be an impossible task in one scene to explain the progress from the Mintarkans to the Enterprise.

679
00:41:06.179 --> 00:41:07.440
He does it brilliantly.

680
00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:08.460
It's beautifully done.

681
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:14.699
I love, we see this, you know, we're seeing it from far above and she says, yet I do not fall.

682
00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:16.440
And she understands it.

683
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:18.900
Like I never thought I would see the clowns from this side.

684
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.239
Like all of that stuff is so good.

685
00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:25.079
I will say though, they do seem to be very close to that planet.

686
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.119
It's very near.

687
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:28.860
That planet has been put in.

688
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:32.219
I think it was probably a less impressive planet originally.

689
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.559
But it looks quite impressive now.

690
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:35.820
Yeah, it really does.

691
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:36.960
And I'm pleased.

692
00:41:37.019 --> 00:41:39.719
Sometimes I'm pleased they're brushing things out.

693
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:42.539
Make something that's almost flawless.

694
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:43.619
Flawless.

695
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:46.559
Well, I mean, the scene with Lily is similar, isn't it?

696
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:48.480
Because it's doing a similar thing.

697
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:55.980
Um, like Lily and Picard are less distant from one another in time and in understanding things.

698
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:58.860
You know, she's been constructing a spaceship.

699
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.219
He doesn't give her the answers.

700
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:03.900
He lets her reason it out as well.

701
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:08.460
He gives her all of the bare bones of what she needs to put it all together.

702
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.579
Some of it she's thinking for thinking of for the 1st time.

703
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:19.500
It's kind of like, well, why don't you still live in caves or why did they live in caves and you live in arts?

704
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.679
And she goes, I guess we didn't know how to make hearts.

705
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:24.179
You know, like all of that.

706
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.820
She's figuring it out and we see it.

707
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.079
And this is him explaining how we get from them to him.

708
00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:33.059
And he starts speeding up.

709
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:37.739
Like he's talking quicker and quicker and mating the links more and more quickly.

710
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:38.820
The clincher is.

711
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:45.780
He puts her in his position and says, well, what would one of those cave dwellers do if they met you now?

712
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:47.519
Do you know what I loved?

713
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:49.380
It's like, what would she think?

714
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.420
Put yourself in her place?

715
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.940
She cannot kill a horn bike.

716
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.059
Like the fact that it's a, like the female pronouns are used.

717
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:58.920
I just think is amazingly good as well.

718
00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:01.079
Who the hell wrote this episode?

719
00:43:01.139 --> 00:43:01.980
I want to know.

720
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:02.820
I've got to find out.

721
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.039
It's a great...

722
00:43:05.099 --> 00:43:05.820
Yeah, yeah.

723
00:43:07.139 --> 00:43:12.059
Yeah, no, I think this scene is really, really great.

724
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:19.920
And like, like, written by Richard Manning and Ham's Beimler, Baimler goes over to DS9.

725
00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.280
He's the one that writes with Ira Bear for 5 years.

726
00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:25.139
Um, Yeah.

727
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:29.400
I mean, this is properly good, and it's really properly Star Trek, isn't it?

728
00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:32.699
And like this is the rug pool, isn't it?

729
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:33.360
I don't feel you.

730
00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:34.980
I understand you.

731
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:40.739
But what she doesn't understand yet is exactly what that means.

732
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:42.000
Do you know what I mean?

733
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:43.019
And this.

734
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:50.820
My people, my people once lived in caves and then they build, learn to build huts and in time to build ships like these.

735
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:54.599
Like, it's so great, and we're not there yet.

736
00:43:54.659 --> 00:44:03.719
We're we're at the bit, we've learned to build hearts and stuff, but we haven't learned to build ships like this and Picard is telling us that we will, that at some point in the future.

737
00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:05.579
That's the last scene, isn't it?

738
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:09.059
It's, well, because maybe one day my people walk over the stars.

739
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.460
Oh, yes, I have no doubt he will.

740
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:20.280
And that's what was under threat. that they were going to become religious nutcases who were too busy kind of massacring one another to find the stars.

741
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:25.079
But what's great is that so they reach their common ground there.

742
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:31.139
She understands why everything is so impressive around her and how how they got there.

743
00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:41.880
But she still doesn't understand what they're capable of, which gives us a sting in the next seat because she still thinks, yes, I understand how we've reached you.

744
00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:56.519
Yeah, but I don't know that you can't bring people back from the dead and particularly since this kind of proves, um, uh, Lico story.

745
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:57.420
Do you know what I mean?

746
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:03.179
Like her experience validates Lico's story and Lico's story is that I was brought back to life.

747
00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:06.000
Oh, it's a stargazer.

748
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:06.480
Look at that.

749
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:11.280
And of course that's how we saw it. right?

750
00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:13.260
He fell from that great height.

751
00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:15.119
Of course he thought he was going to die.

752
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:17.280
And then he wakes up in heaven.

753
00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:17.880
That's right.

754
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:24.719
You know, the natural conclusion I would think is my goal, Joe. Obviously, I was too amazing to die. to bring me back to life.

755
00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:27.300
And this, it is such a rug pull.

756
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:28.559
It's terrible, isn't it?

757
00:45:28.619 --> 00:45:31.800
Like, it is such a moment. breaks my heart.

758
00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

759
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:34.679
And then she goes, why have we just pleased?

760
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.380
Again, she's already thinking religiously.

761
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:38.880
It's what we were trying to solve.

762
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:41.820
We thought we'd fixed it.

763
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:49.739
And then I just, I just love the scene in Sick Bay where they take him and Palmer dies.

764
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.119
No, no, it's Mary.

765
00:45:51.179 --> 00:45:52.619
It's, um, the...

766
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:53.760
Oh, Mary. sorry.

767
00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:54.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.039
And but then she understands.

769
00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:56.880
She gets it.

770
00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:58.260
So then she can go back down.

771
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.320
I mean, it's a good thing Mary did die.

772
00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:03.300
Otherwise, they wouldn't have had that evidence.

773
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:12.480
At the climactic point where Troy's life is in maximum danger and then, oh, and I'm preempting it all now.

774
00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:20.820
The glorious moment, the hero moment where Picard just steps forward and goes, look, if this is the proof you're going to need, then kill me.

775
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:27.960
You know, I will sacrifice my life to stop you people, you know, falling back into something.

776
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:37.139
If that's what it takes to prevent you from developing this religion and never experiencing what I experience in the stars.

777
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:42.900
You know, like Nathan, there are so many ways they could have fucked this episode up.

778
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:50.039
We have seen, and we will see other religious episodes where it's deeply insulting in both directions.

779
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:51.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

780
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:53.460
Yeah.

781
00:46:53.820 --> 00:46:56.400
And they should just look to this.

782
00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:58.920
We've already done it.

783
00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:00.000
We won't do religion again.

784
00:47:00.059 --> 00:47:01.440
This is just perfect, you know.

785
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:03.719
Troy is so good in this too.

786
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:05.159
Like, she's really great.

787
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:07.380
And this is kind of terrifying.

788
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:09.599
I think in three.

789
00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:13.139
They really figure out and give Marina Surtis great stuff to do.

790
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:14.760
And then they forget again.

791
00:47:14.820 --> 00:47:15.719
It's so annoying.

792
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:16.860
Yeah.

793
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:22.800
But that's a good cliffhanger too. her standing up and just seeing what they're preparing for her.

794
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:24.719
Yeah, this.

795
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:26.039
So we're not...

796
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:29.820
It is nice as well that you see just, you know, the terrible Barren.

797
00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:31.019
Yeah, like.

798
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.019
But he is, you know, distressed and he's a person.

799
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:40.320
And then and then she kind of goes, all right, go away now because Nuria and Picard need to have a conversation.

800
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:42.599
Off you go.

801
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:46.559
You see, um, Dr. Beverly's hunky nurse there on his pad.

802
00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:49.559
He looked a bit embarrassed, though, you have to watch all this, you know.

803
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.300
I'll just tap away on my pads, you know.

804
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:58.380
He was raising a clinical eyebrow.

805
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:02.940
And she reacts to the door to see someone die.

806
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.800
Yeah, yeah, she has to see it.

807
00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:05.280
Yeah.

808
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.480
And that's a beautiful shot.

809
00:48:06.539 --> 00:48:06.960
Look at that.

810
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:11.880
A welcome-posed shot with the 2 of them looking at, you know, with...

811
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:13.739
The nurse still looks a bit awkward, though.

812
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:15.539
Yeah, he's doing his eyebrow again though.

813
00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:19.320
Oh, could I just say right?

814
00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:22.559
Sorry to spoil this beautiful moment, but throughout my entire childhood?

815
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:26.820
I was so curious as to what that red and blue liquor was on the back.

816
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.539
I think one of them may be distilled courtressing.

817
00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:31.500
Probably.

818
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:33.360
She just drinks it.

819
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:36.179
But then it's always fall, though, do you notice?

820
00:48:36.300 --> 00:48:37.559
It always fall.

821
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:39.960
And this.

822
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:42.539
I actually think this is kind of beautiful as well.

823
00:48:42.900 --> 00:48:49.019
You couldn't save her, just the way that we couldn't save the people from the floods.

824
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:57.659
And so you experience loss and you experience grief the same way that we do and we did recently.

825
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:03.059
Remember, it was children. 4 children died in those floods last year.

826
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:06.780
The simplicity of that line, though.

827
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:08.519
You do have limits.

828
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:10.800
You are not masters of life in death.

829
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:11.940
Perfect.

830
00:49:12.059 --> 00:49:16.619
Abs in a series that is typically very verbose.

831
00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:19.440
That is so economic. really good.

832
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.239
I mean, he sort of explains it, but it is.

833
00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:23.699
It's kind of like we are the same.

834
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:25.320
Like, we're the same.

835
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:27.179
Yeah, you are not superior beings.

836
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:29.219
You're remarkable, but you're not superior.

837
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:30.719
And I think that's wonderful.

838
00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:31.679
It's so good.

839
00:49:31.739 --> 00:49:35.219
But you know, the delivery of those lines could be so pony.

840
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:39.059
Yeah, yeah I will not stop saying how great that actress is.

841
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:43.139
And this, too, like, you don't want to kill me, Lico, you don't want to kill me.

842
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:45.000
How do you know what God wants?

843
00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:46.199
How do you know?

844
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:49.380
And like, I think that...

845
00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:52.679
We could say this to many people right now.

846
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:53.159
That's the point.

847
00:49:53.219 --> 00:49:54.300
You're calling things are happening.

848
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:55.199
That's it.

849
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:57.599
But OG doesn't want him to do it either.

850
00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:03.360
Because once at risk here isn't her life, it's him becoming a murderer.

851
00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:07.559
You know, like that's that's the danger that's happening here.

852
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:10.380
Whoa, unchieves, does it?

853
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:11.400
But what if it's the wrong thing?

854
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

855
00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:16.800
She's, she fears it too, because that's what happened. for no reason.

856
00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:17.460
That's right.

857
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:20.039
My mother's gone and my father is a murderer, you know?

858
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:22.619
Yeah, and there they are.

859
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.480
The look of relief on Troy's face.

860
00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:25.559
She's like, oh, thank God.

861
00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:27.179
It's really good, isn't it?

862
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:30.119
That's great. someone else can take the arrow now.

863
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:34.019
There's one thing too.

864
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:45.900
There's one really cheesy moment, which I think is a little stroke of genius, which is where Nuria throws herself in front of Picard in order to say what are you talking about?

865
00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:48.360
And it's just like...

866
00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:49.199
No, Lego, no.

867
00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:51.420
And you kind of go, oh, we're doing that, are we?

868
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:52.139
We're going to kill her.

869
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:54.059
Like fucking hell.

870
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.699
And we say, no, we're not going to do that.

871
00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:58.800
He puts her to one side.

872
00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:02.699
Forcibly put her to one side and says, no, we're not doing that.

873
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:04.860
That's not how we're going to resolve this episode.

874
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:09.420
And then he just, you know, his chest's right out, isn't it?

875
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:11.159
Yeah, he's like, go on, if that's what you need.

876
00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:13.260
If that's what you need.

877
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:13.679
Yeah.

878
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:21.300
I mean, Patrick Stewart must have got this script and been like, what garbage have you been giving me the last 2 years?

879
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:26.159
Oh, dear.

880
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.719
I mean, it's a great year for him.

881
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:30.719
I think we get yesterday's Enterprise and best of both worlds this year as well.

882
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:33.239
Yeah, but he's doing great.

883
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:34.440
And Sarek.

884
00:51:34.500 --> 00:51:36.719
But this isn't flashy.

885
00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:39.119
This is just him doing a really good job.

886
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:42.300
Yeah.

887
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.719
I mean, this is just a technically like a midseason episode.

888
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:46.139
Yeah, yeah.

889
00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:46.679
Yeah, yeah.

890
00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:49.260
But I think it is a stunningly good one.

891
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.320
It's the course correction episode, though. you're right.

892
00:51:52.380 --> 00:51:53.579
Absolutely.

893
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:54.179
Yeah.

894
00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:57.239
Or this is a, oh, wow.

895
00:51:57.300 --> 00:51:59.460
This is how...

896
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:01.679
This is how good we can make this.

897
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:03.599
Let's aim for this.

898
00:52:03.659 --> 00:52:06.119
I think that's, you know, you reach a new home.

899
00:52:06.179 --> 00:52:07.980
The ceiling is going up and up.

900
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:11.039
The floor's looking further away.

901
00:52:11.099 --> 00:52:12.420
Yeah.

902
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.719
Which you remember, we were crawling along the floor for quite some time.

903
00:52:15.780 --> 00:52:16.920
We were.

904
00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:17.699
We really were.

905
00:52:17.820 --> 00:52:20.760
The ceiling looked like so far away.

906
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:22.500
But like, this is what...

907
00:52:22.500 --> 00:52:23.400
Oh, bloody hell.

908
00:52:23.460 --> 00:52:24.780
Dathon did as well.

909
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.340
And OG stops it.

910
00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:27.179
Doesn't it?

911
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:45.300
OG pushes him out of the way, so his aim goes wild and it doesn't kill him, and this shot where she shows the blood to him, and his lip quivers and he just starts crying because he realises... don't eat anything. done.

912
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:46.320
It's so good.

913
00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:47.460
So great.

914
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:48.840
Oh my god.

915
00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:49.679
Can I say it?

916
00:52:49.739 --> 00:52:51.900
Because it's the only time it's ever said.

917
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:54.840
Dr. Crusher has repaired her with her usual skill.

918
00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:58.079
My injury with her usual skill. so great.

919
00:52:58.139 --> 00:53:01.380
Between scenes and well, well done, Dr. Crush.

920
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.579
This scene is great because now they're meeting like equals, right?

921
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.440
It's so good.

922
00:53:07.500 --> 00:53:09.059
Like, because there's...

923
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:11.579
You think you'll still get a telling off, though, from the Federation.

924
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.260
No, I don't think so.

925
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:14.280
I think he solved the problem.

926
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:15.539
Like, it was an accident.

927
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:16.559
It wasn't his fault.

928
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:26.099
The guy fell out of the thing, the guy, you know, the thing, you know, the dark blind, malfunctioned, all of that sort of thing.

929
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:27.599
So no one's to blame for this.

930
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:30.840
And he solved the problem.

931
00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:34.980
And this, like, why would someone so advanced want to learn about us?

932
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:37.380
And he says, well, because you're us.

933
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:42.179
You know, we want to learn about you because we learn about us that way.

934
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.340
That's so great.

935
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:45.659
Why would you hide from us?

936
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:49.380
And then legally, because their presence affected us.

937
00:53:49.860 --> 00:53:51.360
But he says the way it affected me.

938
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:52.380
Yeah.

939
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:57.420
And so he can explain the prime directives to her and they can understand why why it's there.

940
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:59.519
But it doesn't.

941
00:53:59.579 --> 00:54:01.920
Yeah, there's so much you could teach us.

942
00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:04.980
And then he explains.

943
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:07.500
That woman on the right, look at her.

944
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.000
She's like, I will be in shock.

945
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.039
I did get in the makeup chair. right?

946
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:13.679
She sort of edged into the show.

947
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:17.280
Oh, not even the star.

948
00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:18.539
It's wonderful, isn't it?

949
00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:20.400
It's like we will see you there.

950
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:22.440
We will see you there one day.

951
00:54:22.500 --> 00:54:28.619
So that cloth, even all of this, Nathan, this could be so twee.

952
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:30.300
This could be so Sakarin.

953
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:32.340
It's just so delicately done.

954
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:37.260
Well, I just think the 2 of them are beautiful together, like him and her, like he's touching her hand.

955
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:38.880
Do you know what I mean?

956
00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:39.900
She's touching his hand.

957
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.119
She, and he grabbed it before.

958
00:54:42.179 --> 00:54:44.219
Remember my people and I always will.

959
00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:49.139
His enormous hand in hers, just clutching her hand.

960
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:51.300
That is just terrific.

961
00:54:51.420 --> 00:54:53.460
So do you know where we've seen that cloth recently?

962
00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:56.940
Picard?

963
00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.900
No, it's on his chair in 1st contact.

964
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:02.519
It's on the chair.

965
00:55:02.579 --> 00:55:04.079
The Mintacon clock.

966
00:55:04.139 --> 00:55:05.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

967
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:06.840
Yeah, so they keyfad.

968
00:55:06.900 --> 00:55:07.980
I don't think...

969
00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:09.300
Oh, Ron Jones.

970
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:12.659
And Marvin Rush was the director of photography in that one.

971
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:13.019
Okay.

972
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:13.739
He's great.

973
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:15.960
He went on to actually direct episodes.

974
00:55:16.019 --> 00:55:17.340
He did the Thor.

975
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:18.000
Oh, wow, okay.

976
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:20.219
I knew he had a good visual eye.

977
00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:21.360
Chip Chalmers.

978
00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:24.119
Chip Chalmers was 1st director assistant director.

979
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

980
00:55:26.579 --> 00:55:28.800
Chip Chalmers did a lot of other work before we started.

981
00:55:28.860 --> 00:55:30.480
He only directed a candle, didn't he?

982
00:55:30.539 --> 00:55:33.539
But amongst them was one of your favourites.

983
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:34.739
Take me out to the hola sweet.

984
00:55:34.860 --> 00:55:35.820
Okay, yeah, yeah.

985
00:55:36.659 --> 00:55:39.239
Another one where we're outside a lot.

986
00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:43.679
That is just an absolute... so good, isn't it?

987
00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:44.400
It's so good.

988
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:59.219
I said fires on all cylinders at the start and just watching it through again and taking it apart and the structure of it, the language they use, the subtlety of the performances, the message, everything.

989
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.139
It's just absolutely superb.

990
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:01.800
So good.

991
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:02.460
Yeah.

992
00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:15.900
I'm so pleased with, you know, how many times have we done this where I've raved about something and then we've watched it and gone on, you know, what was I going through in my teens to think that was a classic.

993
00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:19.440
That is a classic and yeah.

994
00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:20.519
Wow.

995
00:56:20.579 --> 00:56:22.980
Just a...

996
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:34.619
All right, it's the end of the episode and so it's time for us to find out where we're going next.

997
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:39.599
It was my choice, this episode, and a truly excellent choice it was.

998
00:56:39.659 --> 00:56:43.380
And so I guess it's time for you to address the balance.

999
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.000
What series?

1000
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:46.980
Are we going to be choosing from this time?

1001
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:48.900
Please say enterprise.

1002
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:49.980
What am I like?

1003
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:52.320
Well, Enterprise will be in there.

1004
00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:53.940
What do I like to do every now and again?

1005
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:54.840
Everything.

1006
00:56:54.900 --> 00:56:56.280
That's right.

1007
00:56:56.340 --> 00:56:58.980
We never know where we're going to end up.

1008
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:02.400
Okey-dokey.

1009
00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:05.760
Oh, so, oh, no, it's, oh, God, it's so unmemorable.

1010
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:07.019
I'd forgotten that we'd covered it.

1011
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:08.940
I was about to say, wow, that could be interesting.

1012
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:13.019
Voyager, season four, episode six, the Raven.

1013
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:14.159
Oh, okay.

1014
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:14.579
Yeah.

1015
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:15.119
Yeah.

1016
00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:16.559
I can barely remember doing that.

1017
00:57:16.619 --> 00:57:19.860
I do see it occasionally on our website and think, oh, we did that, did we?

1018
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:20.159
Okay.

1019
00:57:20.219 --> 00:57:26.579
I swear when I do this, you know, you set the parameters of the randomiser to episodes we've already done.

1020
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:31.139
Season one, episode 15 of Deep Space Nine Progress, which was great.

1021
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:31.920
That was great.

1022
00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:34.500
You know, do you remember that big, ugly tree?

1023
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:38.760
Oh, no.

1024
00:57:38.820 --> 00:57:40.800
Oh this is a terrible episode.

1025
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:42.000
Oh, we have to do it.

1026
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:42.780
Do we have to go?

1027
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:49.980
I'm really just got loads of Rosalyn Chow in it, so that's a good thing.

1028
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:54.840
It's D-space 9, season six, episode 24.

1029
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.820
Times Orphan.

1030
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.219
Oh, no.

1031
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:04.679
It's the one where Molly falls down that portal and then gets sent back to them.

1032
00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:07.079
A feral adult.

1033
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:08.099
Yeah, yeah.

1034
00:58:08.099 --> 00:58:10.559
I mean, are you in a mood for that?

1035
00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:11.760
I don't know.

1036
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:13.500
I might be in the mood for it next time.

1037
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:14.519
Maybe.

1038
00:58:14.579 --> 00:58:21.179
I just, I just remember this, this scene of them, because obviously they have to re-educate her.

1039
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:26.159
She been on that planet ages and she's, you know, she's a savage, basically.

1040
00:58:26.219 --> 00:58:26.760
Yeah.

1041
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:30.659
Keiko's got this ball and she's going, it's like play school.

1042
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:35.039
This is a ball, Marley, which you like the ball, Marley?

1043
00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:36.179
No.

1044
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:36.900
Oh, no.

1045
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:39.360
But do you know I know you, though?

1046
00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:40.920
You watch this shit.

1047
00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:42.659
And I'll find something out.

1048
00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:45.780
Oh, there was these great moments in it.

1049
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:51.179
I almost want to watch it, but actually, we haven't done too many shit, DS9s, have we?

1050
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:52.380
No, not for a while.

1051
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.920
Oh no, the last one we did was move along home.

1052
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.340
I might have to reevaluate my feelings on this show.

1053
00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:04.739
I quite fancy it actually.

1054
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:05.519
Would you reckon?

1055
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:06.360
Let's do it.

1056
00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:06.659
Why not?

1057
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:09.239
We've done a lot this time, but who cares?

1058
00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:10.440
We've got a lot more to do yet.

1059
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:11.340
Exactly.

1060
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:15.239
Would you like the bottle, Nathan?

1061
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:17.099
I would like...

1062
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:11.699
Oh, boy, oh, boy.

1063
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:13.559
If you love that, all right.

1064
01:00:13.619 --> 01:00:15.239
So, yeah.

1065
01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:19.260
So I'm the person who loved section 31.

1066
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.159
Because everyone else heard it.

1067
01:00:24.059 --> 01:00:27.599
I mean, I mean, even I'm surprised.

1068
01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:32.460
Even I'm surprised that it's been as people have been as harsh as they have.

1069
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:33.900
I haven't seen it.

1070
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:39.480
I mean, it's it's very odd.

1071
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:40.679
Do you know what I mean?

1072
01:00:40.739 --> 01:00:45.059
Like it's not a movie and there's too many characters. look amazing?

1073
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:46.079
Yeah, it looks really great.

1074
01:00:46.139 --> 01:00:54.480
Like it's, but it's sort of a bit of a sort of grim, you know, like it's, it's basically kind of suicide squad.

1075
01:00:54.539 --> 01:01:09.539
It's kind of like if you'd had another series, like you're doing Strange New Worlds, you're doing lower decks and then you're kind of doing this and it, like it was a series, like they introduce like these 7 characters who are all really high concept in like fun, new ways.

1076
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:22.619
Um, There's this Irish Vulcan, who's really, the Tesla, a robot, driven by a tiny microscopic person in a pod.

1077
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:30.000
He's got like a really super annoying Irish accent and he's terribly gay.

1078
01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:49.559
And, and like, um, uh, Michelle, you know, cousin Michelle's running a bar and she's got, she's got this little gay Twinkie guy who is her kind of sidekick who is one of the aliens from let that be your last battlefield.

1079
01:01:49.619 --> 01:01:51.840
So yeah, off his face is black.

1080
01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:57.480
And he's super gay, like he's fabulously gay.

1081
01:01:57.539 --> 01:01:59.940
There's nothing they won't do.

1082
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.500
And like, so you've got too many characters and stuff. they introduce them all.

1083
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:10.860
There's that really, really funny guy who I 1st seen from Veep, who has been in other things, but I can't remember his name, and he's really great.

1084
01:02:10.860 --> 01:02:14.639
And he's like a change shape shifter or whatever.

1085
01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:23.159
And the male lead is like super handsome and he's like an augment and everyone has these sort of massive kind of backstories and stuff.

1086
01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:37.559
And it is just, you know, the, the, we're setting up a show where the federation sends them off to do, um, like heists and shit and like find, you know, like stop this bioweapon going on the market or whatever.

1087
01:02:37.619 --> 01:02:48.780
And so, so it's not section 31 in the, you know, brutal leftist critique of American imperialism, of deep safe side, or the shitty version.

1088
01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:49.920
Is it Suicide Squad?

1089
01:02:49.980 --> 01:02:51.900
That's what Montanason said, I think.

1090
01:02:51.960 --> 01:03:00.780
Because then, because there's the Enterprise version of Section 31, which is just that guy in a flashing Mac on the top of a fucking building talking to Reed.

1091
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:01.679
Do you know what I mean?

1092
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:03.659
Like that sort of shitty version.

1093
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:10.320
And so this is not, this isn't proper section 31 and section 31 was a bit more gritty and stuff in, you know, discovery series 2.

1094
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:15.300
But here it's fun section 31 and so they're just going to do heists every week.

1095
01:03:15.420 --> 01:03:18.059
And so I forget that stuff what's happening anyway.

1096
01:03:18.119 --> 01:03:21.420
Like, do you know when Sloan turned up in Bashir's quarters?

1097
01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:30.840
And he set out this enormous political chess game before the episode's even started and this year is just basically playing all the moves that have been set out for him.

1098
01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:34.019
Like, that's really fun and really great and all that politicing.

1099
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:37.380
But I figured all of this suicide squad stuff was happening as well.

1100
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:38.219
Yeah, yeah.

1101
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:40.559
I mean, it's just a romp, like, consistent, sort of romp.

1102
01:03:40.619 --> 01:03:49.739
And I guess the weird thing about it is, like, you go in there expecting a film, but what you really get is kind of like, it's a little bit like serenity.

1103
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:54.000
You know how serenity is like Firefly season two.

1104
01:03:54.059 --> 01:04:00.179
Yeah, but it's all sort of condensed into a film and so it doesn't really kind of work or make much sense.

1105
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:03.059
And like surrounding is better than this, I think, probably.

1106
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:16.139
But this is kind of like series one of new Star Trek spinoff that would have happened, if it hadn't have been for COVID and, you know, cousin Michelle's availability now that she's won an Oscar.

1107
01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:22.260
And so, um, so they don't do enough to turn it into a film.

1108
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:25.559
And so so like there are too many people in it.

1109
01:04:25.619 --> 01:04:28.920
It doesn't really sort of properly work in all sorts of ways.

1110
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:32.699
But I think I would have watched the shit out of it had it been a series.

1111
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:37.380
Like, I just think it would have been fun. people should watch it that way, though.

1112
01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:39.780
It was like, this is effectively like a pilot.

1113
01:04:39.780 --> 01:04:41.039
Yeah.

1114
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:47.219
Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's the worst thing about it is that it just, that it doesn't do what it promises to do.

1115
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:51.900
It doesn't really, there's hard to, you know, the only reason to do this now.

1116
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:54.900
The reaction has been really hostile.

1117
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:58.920
These people don't understand Star Trek at all.

1118
01:04:58.980 --> 01:05:00.300
What does that even mean?

1119
01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:02.639
What are you people talking about?

1120
01:05:02.699 --> 01:05:05.639
But Star Trek can be lots of different things.

1121
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:07.260
Do you know what I mean?

1122
01:05:07.320 --> 01:05:13.440
Like, but, but like we just watched, so we've just watched an episode that is very centrally Star Trek, which is the space problems people.

1123
01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:16.139
And then go and watch Change in Face of Evil.

1124
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:17.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1125
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:17.880
That's right.

1126
01:05:17.940 --> 01:05:19.139
Utterly different.

1127
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:19.739
Yeah.

1128
01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:29.039
And so, and and you've got Rachel Garrett as well is one of the characters, but it's set, you know, long before the battle or whatever.

1129
01:05:29.099 --> 01:05:33.659
I haven't quite got the timelines there. but she's much younger.

1130
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.719
We know what's going to happen to her with that big bit of shrapnel.

1131
01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:40.019
Shrapnel in a head. knife in a head that comes out of the exploding thing.

1132
01:05:40.079 --> 01:05:41.699
And they do allude to that.

1133
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:47.699
It is definitely the character and her job is she's the Starfleet person who has to kind of rein them in a beard.

1134
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:51.659
Um, But she's sort of cool and stuff as well.

1135
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:52.500
I don't know.

1136
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:54.239
I will give it a watch.

1137
01:05:54.300 --> 01:05:55.500
I'll give it a watch.

1138
01:05:55.559 --> 01:05:56.099
Yeah.

1139
01:05:56.159 --> 01:06:00.960
It just isn't the atrocity that everyone kind of claimed it was, I think.

1140
01:06:01.019 --> 01:06:02.460
I thought it was pretty fun.

1141
01:06:02.519 --> 01:06:03.719
Never are.

1142
01:06:03.780 --> 01:06:05.219
No, no.

1143
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:07.079
Except a night in Sick Bay.

1144
01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:09.179
Which is really great.