WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 20:04:05

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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Well, we're back aboard Voyager this week, and we are in series 2

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back when it's still good.

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Yep.

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And we are watching the sequel, I think, to an episode that we've

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already done that was series one, episode 11 state of flux.

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Now this is series 2 episode 11 manoeuvres, and also the prequel

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to an episode we've already done, which was alliances, which is

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coming up soon, which sort of picks up on all of this stuff and

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the Kazon and all that boring stuff that's happening with them.

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How did I find this episode?

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I remembered it being an absolute classic.

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It's not an absolute classic, but I really enjoyed it.

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And just for 2 words, really.

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Martha Hackett.

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Yeah, she's such.

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She's legendary.

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There's a reason they brought her back twice after she was killed

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off.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah, she's really great.

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Well, I realise we don't have enough big melodramatic camp

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pantomimic villains in Star Trek.

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Now, I don't think Star Trek fans like that. sort of thing, because

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you're supposed to take this all very seriously.

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Fuck me, whenever she's on the screen, it lights up this show

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doesn't it?

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Yeah.

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I think villains tend to be the thing that you have in the movies

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yeah, in the films, which is what Lower Decks makes fun of in the

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2 crisis point episodes that it does.

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So it is a little bit unusual having a semi-regular villain.

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I mean, Deep Space 9 went for it and had camp villains.

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And we love them.

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And we did, but there was no real camp female villain.

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There was obviously the female shapeshifter, but she wasn't as

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much fun, I think, as Cesca is. called a female.

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She was quite androgynous, really. wasn't she?

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Yeah, but I think she gets credited as female shapeshift during

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the show.

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She clearly got, you know, she has breasts.

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She brought her breasts with her.

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Um, I think what happens early on, this is still Voyager, this is

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before it decides to be something else before it decides to ditch

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all of this stuff, which it does at the end of this season?

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really, doesn't it?

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With a series 2, series 3, two, part of basics, parts one and

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two.

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And then it just sort of heads off into the galaxy doing perhaps

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what it should always have done.

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Because one of the things is that this very clearly makes no sense

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at all.

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I mean, we have been travelling.

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You know, for months and months, I think Janeway says 10 months at

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this and we haven't gotten anywhere.

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We're still meeting up with the same people all the time, and that

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becomes much more obvious in alliances later on in the season

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which is a bit silly.

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And I guess we could just sort of wear it and enjoy having sort of

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semi-regular recurring villains, I suppose.

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It's a problem, isn't it?

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It's a bit of a problem because I think this is probably the most

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interesting period of Voyager forging out its own identity.

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But in doing so, it completely makes the mockery of the premise

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behind the show.

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But like, why can't we just cover it with a line?

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Oh dear, we're out of energy supplies.

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We literally need to find some.

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Until then, we can't really go to warp and we're stuck in this

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area of space for half a season.

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There you go.

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One line that explains why we're here.

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Do all of this story and then move on.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I guess they could have done that.

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I mean, you know, this is a sequel happening a year later. to

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something.

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So, you know. colour in caretaker?

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Like they've gotten, they've gotten nowhere since then.

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I think he's in Caretaker.

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Oh, really?

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Because I think he and Janeway meet for the 1st time in state of

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Flarks, and he still introduces himself to Janeway for the people

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who weren't here last year, and she does a kind of you know, we

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know each other.

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I don't know why you're doing that.

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I guess the other thing too is that there is a problem with the

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actual premise.

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Part of the fun of this episode is the fact that Belana and

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Chakotay are still Maquis.

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And obviously that was never, ever going to last because the

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Maquee is an alpha quadrant phenomenon that makes sense in that

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context.

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By the time we go into the Delta Quadrant, All that we have is a

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kind of shared background and stuff like that.

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And I think that works really well.

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Like, I think that Belana and Chakotay are really good here and

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having Belana sticking up for Chakotay, kind of interceding on his

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behalf with Janeway and stuff like that.

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All of that stuff, I think, is really good.

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It gives us scenes with Kate and Roxanne, which are really, really

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great.

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I think Chakotay is really good in this, like before he sort of

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gave up, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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He's really great in there.

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No, no.

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Beltran's great in this as well.

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Like, the same worries interrogated.

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We'll talk about it when we get there.

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He's fantastically good in that scene.

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Like, sarcastic and smiling his way through the pain and niggling

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at colour.

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It's wonderful that scene.

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Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?

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So, like, I guess to me, I think there was just a little bit too

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much sitting at consoles barking techno babble.

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Star Trek for you. more so, I think, than other Star Treks.

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And I think there is a kind of there's a bit of sameness about

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it.

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It's not as clever, I think, as state of flux, which has some

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interesting twists in it.

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And it clearly just given the title, the titles manoeuvres, it

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kind of wants to be like state of flux, it wants to have the

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characters out manoeuvring each other. of that really works.

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And because everything is something that we've seen before, there's

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no kind of strangeness.

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It's not very Star Treky, I think is the thing.

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Oh, no wonder I liked it so much.

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What I think does make sense about the Marquis in the Delta

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Quadrant is when you have a character like Cesca, who thinks

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outside the box who doesn't want to play by Federation rules, who

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defects, who joins forces with the villains of the Quadrant.

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And that's really interesting.

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Like that makes sense of the marquee being in the Delta Quadrant.

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And yeah, what you were saying earlier, the decision they make, I

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don't think is the decision for the best.

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They basically decide to stop making Star Trek Voyager and start

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making Star Trek the Next Generation lawyer from series 3

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onwards.

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And what does work in this episode is they are showing

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consequences of previous episodes and they ditch all of that as

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well from series 3 onwards.

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We're on a sort of reset button with every episode and they are

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looking at where all of these characters come from.

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So, like you say, Jakotay and Torres in the marquee, and the

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consequences of Cesca being B'lana's best friend.

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She says that in this and Cesca being Chikotay's girlfriend or

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lover, which is really interesting.

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They don't do none of this later on.

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When this season is over, when Pillar leaves this show, they

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decide that none of this is working.

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I think it is working.

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I just don't think they've quite got the oomph or something in the

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show to raise it to the next level.

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What they should have done was go, okay, here's all the stuff that

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works into Michael Jonas being a traitor.

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Cesca being a villain, you know, Marge Carla, this great camp

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baddie.

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But let's refine it.

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Let's take what works and then let's run with it.

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That's what DS9 did, right?

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As we watched DS9, it took all the elements that work, ditched all

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the elements that didn't, and just constantly evolved it until it

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was, you know, series 4 to 7 of DS9, absolute bloody gold.

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Yeah.

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I think it's a shame.

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It's a shame that they got rid of all this stuff.

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I think what they needed to do was what they did do, which is move

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on from the Kazon and do some other things.

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And the way that Voyager turns out over at 7 years is that it does

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go on a journey and it goes from place to place and experiences

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different things and different types of aliens and stuff like

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that.

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And I think all of that's really great.

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But what it needed to do is kind of what, I guess, Deep Space 9

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does definitely what Strange New World stars, is serialise the

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relationships between the characters and have more characters as

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well, like have more people on the ship than just the 7 people.

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And that's the other thing.

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I think that we, or nine.

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How many people are there?

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don't know.

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But that's the other thing you really notice is that the ship

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seems a little bit more inhabited because there's more people than

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just the people in the opening credits.

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All of that stuff could have made the show more interesting, but

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they are just instead, once it becomes the only Star Trek on

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television, They've just decided we need to do Star Trek and Star

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Trek doesn't really do character relationships.

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It's all about space things.

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Which is so annoying because the outdoor state of flux where Cesca

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said, you know, you're a fool, captain, and you're a fool to

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follow her, which leads into this.

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And at the end of this, with her going, hello, Jakoti, you're

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going to be a father, which leads into the finale.

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It's just about the most interesting thing. really funny isn't

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it?

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Yeah, it's probably fun.

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And it makes me long for the next Cesca episode.

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Yeah, you know?

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Well, we won't get much of her, but maybe we should watch her

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today, shall we?

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All right.

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Okay.

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And so I'll count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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I mean, we lost her, didn't we, to Deep Space 9.

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Martha Hackett was going to play that Romulan, wasn't she?

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That was introduced in series 3.

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Oh okay.

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And then she just vanished completely after the 1st 2 part because

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she got Cesca.

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Oh okay.

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She's so great.

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So there's one line that I really like.

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It's in this scene where he says that he was, so Chakotay's

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letting B'lana win.

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He says, you tense up, and she goes, I don't tense up, and he goes

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easy banana.

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It just hoverball.

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And I thought that is a really kind of mid joke in any normal TV

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show.

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But on a show like Voyager where the banter is so execrable.

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Like so appalling.

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That's actually really properly fun.

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And it makes you like Chakotay as well because he's funny, you

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know.

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I could see, I could see the effort they're putting into his

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character at this point.

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Both the writers and Robert Beltran himself, unfortunately, on

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series 3, that also stops.

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But again, notice too, that that opening beard, which has really

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got to be about Chakotay.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And perhaps it's got to be about Chakotay as an officer or what

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Chakotay's days like.

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Here it is, you know, here's what his relationship with Balana is

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like, which is important to the episode.

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But it's so short.

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We get nothing of him.

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They don't want to do character stuff.

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They just want to say we're getting a federation signal and then

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go out into the opening credits.

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And so, you know, they're more interested in the action which

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they're barely able to actually realise and more interested in the

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kind of manoeuvres which never really properly land, and it would

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have been fun to see more stuff being given to Robert Beltran, I

250
00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:09.000
think.

251
00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:13.740
I think Jerry Taylor and a few others, you know, the suits are a

252
00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:17.940
bit irritated because they set all this stuff up in series one and

253
00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:19.919
they kind of got to see it through, you know.

254
00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:21.659
They're ready for series three.

255
00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:26.460
Um, and, well, I'm just absolutely delighted that we get to see

256
00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:28.919
across series two, this play out.

257
00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:33.179
I don't know, I was going with that.

258
00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:37.559
I mean, that's fun.

259
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:38.220
I really like.

260
00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:40.440
I just really like this period of time.

261
00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:41.039
Yeah, me too.

262
00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:43.200
Nathan, I don't get to say that very often.

263
00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:44.879
No, no.

264
00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:48.360
And like, Voyager will go on and do astoundingly great episodes.

265
00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:49.200
Do you know what I mean?

266
00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:50.220
It's not always a wash.

267
00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.779
It will go on and do great things, but it doesn't, the show is not

268
00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:56.519
as fun as this ever again, I think.

269
00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:01.919
Boy, they are astonishingly stupid in this scene where they don't

270
00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:03.179
assume it's Cesca.

271
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.779
I mean, you've literally, you know there's somebody from the Alpha

272
00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.700
Quadrant in the Delta Quadrant.

273
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:09.539
Why does it?

274
00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:12.059
I know they think they're T NG with no consequences.

275
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:13.620
Jesus Christ.

276
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:14.940
They can't be this stupid.

277
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.500
That's what I said to you.

278
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.659
I said that they don't know yet whether there are recurring

279
00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:22.919
villains in their show.

280
00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:28.320
And so they, they never, it never occurs to them that, uh, never

281
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.279
used to ask her again.

282
00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:30.059
And this...

283
00:13:30.059 --> 00:13:31.200
Do you remember Mascot?

284
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:31.500
Who?

285
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.419
I'm not sure we'll do that sort of thing.

286
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.059
There's actually another little moment, the little character

287
00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:40.019
moment about how much Harry wants to get home, which is a sort of

288
00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:42.539
sweet thing which they continue with.

289
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.919
And like I thought that was nice and the way that that it looks

290
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:49.320
like Janeway's going to squash him and she doesn't.

291
00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:54.240
It is nice, but it's another recurring problem of a Voyager.

292
00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:57.299
Sorry, to be coming down so hard on the premise here, is that

293
00:13:57.299 --> 00:14:02.580
every fucking time, every single time, they think they're going to

294
00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:05.580
get home or they're going to make a massive leap towards home

295
00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:05.820
yeah?

296
00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:12.539
The go-to character is Harry Kim being a child. being excited and

297
00:14:12.539 --> 00:14:14.039
then ultimately being disappointed.

298
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:17.399
It's what makes timeless so great because they finally address

299
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:22.559
that where he's a bitter old man. who destroyed Voyager in his end

300
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:23.460
to get it home.

301
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:24.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

302
00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:26.220
But it is nice.

303
00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:27.120
It's a nice moment.

304
00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:31.139
So I think this is boring, actually.

305
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:36.659
This is some action that we have, but like all of this staff, all

306
00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:39.600
of the shouting things, all of the sitting at their stations and

307
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.379
yelling and returning fire and stuff is really boring.

308
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:47.399
He did return fire, but unfortunately we didn't cut to the ships.

309
00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:49.679
So we just assumed that there was a beam, you know?

310
00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:50.519
Yeah, yeah.

311
00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:51.059
Yeah.

312
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.299
Oh, at least also, another thing that they can't achieve is they

313
00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:58.919
can't show us the hole in the, in the, um, they can't show us the

314
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.299
hole in the, uh, in the shields through which the, the thing will

315
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:03.659
come.

316
00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:06.419
And so they can, it's just a messenger speech.

317
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:07.919
You've just got 2 Vog describing it.

318
00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.259
What they can do. though.

319
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:14.759
What they can do is show the ship sticking into the cargo, baby

320
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:15.659
with a load of dry eyes.

321
00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:16.740
Oh, I do that.

322
00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:18.360
I think that looks impressive.

323
00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:21.659
It's a nice big set, you know, and you can see the damage that the

324
00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:22.259
shuttle's done.

325
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.700
And it does it does show the Kazon to be a bit more a bit

326
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.700
different to the usual sort of Star Trek villains because we don't

327
00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:31.679
usually do suicide runs like this, do we?

328
00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:35.460
No, it's not a suicide run, though, because they survive it and

329
00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:38.639
come out and start shooting people. and then get killed.

330
00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:40.080
Yeah, see, that's pretty cool.

331
00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:41.820
Like that that optical is pretty great.

332
00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:43.259
Wibble the camera.

333
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.240
You should have done what they did in that enterprise episode and

334
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:46.980
have the whole ceiling come down, though, you know?

335
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.139
things hanging from the roof.

336
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:49.860
Yeah.

337
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.200
Yeah, God, they're just trying to make it.

338
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.360
Shake in the camera like...

339
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:56.159
I'm feeling it.

340
00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:58.139
I feel you got any anti-nausea about this.

341
00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:01.919
Well, I'll say this.

342
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:05.220
The person pumping the dry ice into the set absolutely was doing

343
00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:06.059
their job well.

344
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.879
They earned their pay for that star to you.

345
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:14.340
Oh, I love it when whenever Kate stands up and declare something

346
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:15.779
on the bridge. just love it.

347
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.100
Oh, here we go, look.

348
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.919
Yeah, yeah, it's coming out the shuttle.

349
00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:23.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah. lots of dry ice.

350
00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:27.779
There's a very theatrical swing round to Chewbok going, stay where

351
00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:28.200
you are.

352
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.379
He's too vog, though. awesome.

353
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.620
Yeah, see, this is them trying to do action.

354
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.100
Then he has to very slowly go down that ladder, doesn't he?

355
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:39.720
Because Tim Ross doesn't want to fall off.

356
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:41.820
They cut away.

357
00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:45.419
So they're sort of in and out, aren't they?

358
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.200
This is a quick operation and Chuvolt. may I say your security

359
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.700
procedures need looking at?

360
00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:52.559
Yeah, yeah.

361
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:55.679
No, they're in the transporter room already then. napping the

362
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:56.100
technology.

363
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.779
They're on the pad and gone.

364
00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:58.740
Yeah, yeah.

365
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:02.639
And it's colour himself on board. pretty good.

366
00:17:02.700 --> 00:17:05.220
They do look like cut price Klingons, don't they, those?

367
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:07.980
Yeah, yeah, they're the Klingons your mum says that we've got at

368
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:08.220
home.

369
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:10.380
So there's this, right?

370
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.559
And then later on, so the case I managed to effectively get on

371
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.240
board the ship and steal the technology.

372
00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.960
And then later on, Shakotay manages to effectively steal a

373
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:20.880
shuttlecraft without anybody noticing.

374
00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:24.059
Finally, Janeway goes, Mr. Chewvok.

375
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.940
You're not getting your you're not getting your pay rise this week

376
00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:27.240
all right?

377
00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:31.380
Like, why, like, I don't understand why you aren't just

378
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:32.700
immediately informed.

379
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.640
And because it's because it's Chakotay, I'm just assuming that he

380
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:36.480
overrode that.

381
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:38.819
But it happens all the time, doesn't it?

382
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.960
Oh, so-and-so's not on board. you know, um, no one warned anyone

383
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.480
that Cisco had disappeared from the station.

384
00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:51.059
Um, uh, you know, and ended up in the in the game the other day on

385
00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:51.900
Move Along Home.

386
00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.019
They don't have a system that says, oh, by the way, like I get a

387
00:17:55.019 --> 00:17:59.279
fucking phone notification when, you know, something that I've

388
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.420
been looking at on Amazon, gets 2 or 3 bucks off it, and they

389
00:18:03.420 --> 00:18:05.819
don't get notifications when people disappear from the ship.

390
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:09.480
If Mark is 5 minutes late, you're home from work.

391
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:11.279
I'll phone him up and say, are you dead?

392
00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:15.720
There's food here waiting for you.

393
00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:17.099
Oh, hang on.

394
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.180
Here we go.

395
00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:20.579
Colour, colour, and Cesca.

396
00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:20.819
Now.

397
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.900
That's just gold.

398
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.220
Never mind.

399
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.400
Terrible action. at this bear.

400
00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:32.099
He goes, we've had some help gaining this technology.

401
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.200
And then she just peers over his shoulder.

402
00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:35.880
Hello, Chakote.

403
00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:42.779
Oh, she says goodbye, Chakotay.

404
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.460
And the thing that's different here, I mean, it's not so different

405
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:50.940
because in DSI, obviously, yeah, they're great camp villains to

406
00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:52.259
come weigh in and all of that.

407
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.079
But and there wasn't like a power games going on.

408
00:18:55.140 --> 00:19:01.680
But when it's a woman pulling the strings of a man, it's just

409
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.240
wonderful, isn't it?

410
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:08.640
It's really funny that early Voyager has to be so sexist, though.

411
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:10.440
Like all the villains have to be really sexist.

412
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:13.140
Yeah, but she's running rings around them all.

413
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:17.160
Well, yeah, no, there's one scene there is one scene where she

414
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:22.259
reads a little bit like she's not under the thumb, but, you know

415
00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:24.420
scared of his violence to some degree.

416
00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:26.940
I mean, I do wonder, you know, they finish.

417
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.720
There isn't a little bit of server land from Blake 7 in Cesca and

418
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.819
she don't mind a bit of the old violence, you know?

419
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:33.900
Well, actually...

420
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.220
Yeah, no, but she looks, she does look a little bit kind of, um

421
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:42.779
like I felt for her a little bit, I think, in a way that you never

422
00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:44.819
get with Serverland in Blake 7, you know.

423
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:51.000
You know what I did like, though, is how the Nistrom used the warp

424
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.019
the, sorry, the transporter technology as a weapon.

425
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.380
That was so great and you just see the people flying through

426
00:19:58.380 --> 00:19:58.680
space.

427
00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:02.160
In fact, the way that that's edited, the way that that bit of the

428
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.980
story is told is really good, I think.

429
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.880
So Neelix is here for some much needed exposition, so that he can

430
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.480
talk about the stakes here. contractual obligation, and

431
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.539
contractual obligation, but he's basically here so that we can

432
00:20:15.539 --> 00:20:20.940
have a conversation about why Janeway wants to get the transporter

433
00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:21.960
module or whatever it is.

434
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:26.640
I wonder if there's like an edit you could do on the whole of 90s

435
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:27.240
track.

436
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:31.319
And you put up a caption that says contraps your obligation in

437
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.779
every episode every time someone gets there one scene.

438
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

439
00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:35.759
Yeah.

440
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:40.140
Janeway's got her sort of severe bum at this boy, doesn't she?

441
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:41.819
I like this hair.

442
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:43.019
It's my favourite hair.

443
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:46.619
I hate it when she just has generic American lady hair in the sort

444
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:47.579
of latest seasons.

445
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.839
I love the long hair as well where it goes down her back, but I

446
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.259
love this.

447
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:56.400
You know, when she goes to sort of Julian Anson X-Files car.

448
00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:57.480
I like that, you know.

449
00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:02.700
That is, that's what I mean. by standard American lady hair.

450
00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:08.339
I love how the Nistrom talk or all the caves talk about the

451
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:10.140
federation technology like it's magic.

452
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.859
It can move you from one place to another in the blink of an eye.

453
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:14.819
Whoa.

454
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:16.079
Oh my god.

455
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:21.960
But the trouble is, and we did say this in alliances, even though

456
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.039
alliances did go some way to making the Kazon victims, and that

457
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.539
was interesting, the actual politicking between the Kazan, it's

458
00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:31.079
really boring.

459
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.920
Yeah, they're just not interesting enough, are they?

460
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:35.700
No.

461
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:36.480
No.

462
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:40.500
And they are trying to, they're trying to sort of juggle, here

463
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:42.960
it's sex in DS9 its Empires.

464
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:45.900
But in DS9, they did that wonderful thing that you always talk

465
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.720
about, which is you have a go-to character. person.

466
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:49.740
Yeah.

467
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.359
With a huge personality.

468
00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:53.700
Kai win, golden cart. whoever.

469
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.240
Senator Cretak, you know, whoever it is, Martok.

470
00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:01.619
And then it's interesting when you see them, but these Cayson

471
00:22:01.619 --> 00:22:03.900
they're so, I mean, who are these people?

472
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:05.339
Part from colour.

473
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.579
Well, and that's the other thing too, is that those Star Trek

474
00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:11.759
races date from the 60s and these ones are completely new and

475
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:13.440
we're just not really that interested.

476
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.059
And they're not.

477
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.579
I mean, they're not that much like the Klingons.

478
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:21.480
They're less kind of animalistic and a little bit more well spoken

479
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:24.059
but they are rougher than the federation and stuff.

480
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.640
So they're, you know, in one dimension, they're similar to the

481
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:27.119
Klingons.

482
00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:30.359
But they should have done what you said. you know, the original

483
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:35.339
idea, which was for them to be gangs, you know, gangs of younger

484
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:35.940
characters.

485
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.319
If they'd have found really strong, sort of, not teenager, maybe

486
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.819
early 20s, character tracks to come in and play those roles, really

487
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.079
rough, a bit dangerous.

488
00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:48.119
That could have been edgy and exciting.

489
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.460
Instead, you've just got your usual...

490
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:52.440
They drag people in theatre.

491
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.980
And they're declaring everything, you know, oh, colour, give us

492
00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:57.359
this technology, you know.

493
00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:00.720
Colour is very well spoken, but I think he's really good.

494
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:02.400
Oh, he's great.

495
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:03.599
He's just terrific.

496
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:06.779
He's got the Marco Lemo charm, hasn't he?

497
00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:07.079
You know?

498
00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:08.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

499
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:09.660
Yeah, he is very charming.

500
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:10.980
I think he is really good.

501
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:17.940
Um, this, so this scene as well should be good, but isn't, because

502
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:21.660
there's just too much kind of talking about the technology and and

503
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:24.240
only now we're getting the relationship between them.

504
00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.940
I'm so baffled with you.

505
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:27.660
There's not enough.

506
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:31.380
Some episodes, you're absolutely in love with the Techna Babble.

507
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:33.359
In other episodes, you're not.

508
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:39.420
But the techno Babylon on Voyager is bad in a way that it's less

509
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:41.339
bad in Star Trek than Next Generation.

510
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.240
It's got bad.

511
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.160
They don't know why they're doing it.

512
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:47.640
Well, they sort of do these hideous metaphors, don't they?

513
00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:48.720
All the time.

514
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:49.619
Yeah, yeah.

515
00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:50.759
Oh, don't do that.

516
00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:53.700
It's like grafting this onto a plant or something.

517
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:55.019
Oh, thank you very much.

518
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.000
I like this guy.

519
00:23:57.059 --> 00:24:01.079
So I don't know this guy, but he's the...

520
00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:02.400
Is that a well, you know him?

521
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:04.200
ogler or a rolora?

522
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:10.140
He's the rolora, rolora guy with a beard. who has a, he takes us

523
00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:14.279
out of this um scene with this incredibly great smile.

524
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.440
I do have quite the most hideous hair, though, of any race in Star

525
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.220
Trek, don't they?

526
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

527
00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:23.460
It's upsetting, isn't it?

528
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.599
I mean, why does colour look like he's got a load of rocks on his

529
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:27.779
head?

530
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:31.019
Apparently it's dog chew toys and stuff.

531
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:32.039
Like they all...

532
00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:33.119
No, it's not, is it?

533
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:34.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

534
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.079
I read the memory alpha thing about the, there's a whole section

535
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:39.000
about the, about the costume.

536
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:43.559
Well, I I know now where they went wrong with a Kazon.

537
00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:45.599
You know, they made them up out of dog chew toys.

538
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:46.980
Look at this.

539
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.579
Look at this.

540
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.779
So he's making fun of her for being ordered around, making fun of

541
00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:53.880
colour for being ordered around.

542
00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:57.119
There's the 2 of them looking at each other and going, let's beam

543
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.019
them into space.

544
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.039
And then that guy smiles and then we cut back to Voyager's Bridge

545
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.319
and then we find out what happened to him.

546
00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:08.220
And I thought that was unusually good as well. thrown away a

547
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:11.099
little bit. like you think that that moment should have landed a

548
00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:14.640
little bit more. to make us wonder what was going to happen next

549
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.579
and then cut to their dead bodies, which is what we're seeing now

550
00:25:17.579 --> 00:25:19.079
which is pretty cool.

551
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.319
That's not a special effect of them sort of flying around. space

552
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:22.740
as well.

553
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.680
He's got his hands out, like claws, like he wasn't expecting

554
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:25.920
that.

555
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:28.619
Kate's reaction. is pretty awesome as well.

556
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:29.940
Like, hey, kills it.

557
00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:31.920
Like when she reacts with Chakotay.

558
00:25:31.980 --> 00:25:33.839
Oh, he's the best.

559
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:36.420
It's like something I kind of never considered before.

560
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.700
It's like, yeah, of course you could use that as a weapon.

561
00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:44.220
Even when Picard, you know, threatened to beam himself out into

562
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.640
that electric cloud in lonely among us. with a nebula.

563
00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:51.000
Yeah It still didn't cross my mind.

564
00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:54.839
Actually, in the wrong hands, this could be an offensive weapon.

565
00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:55.380
Yeah.

566
00:25:55.380 --> 00:25:55.980
Yeah.

567
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.700
Oh, even the names of them, Nathan. the Kazon relora.

568
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:03.779
So it was the Oglet and the Relora, and they're too strong, we've

569
00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:04.259
decided.

570
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.900
And again, so this doesn't go anywhere.

571
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.259
Like, no one's crazy, say in this line.

572
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.319
We know they've been murdered.

573
00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:16.440
You know, it's possible, Captain, that they may have used a

574
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:17.400
transporter beam.

575
00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:19.500
To execute these K's up.

576
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:20.279
Oh, really?

577
00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:20.819
Thank you.

578
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.079
Yeah, and this too, I think this is really great.

579
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:29.579
So this captain's log is about how she's convened a meeting of the

580
00:26:29.579 --> 00:26:32.460
senior staff, and you think, okay, well, we're introducing that

581
00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:35.519
scene, and then it turns out, no, because Chakoti doesn't turn up

582
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.160
for this scene, which he should be there.

583
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:40.920
And so this thing gets abandoned and it becomes about something

584
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.420
else, which I thought was pretty good.

585
00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:47.279
What I do think, Nathan, is, frankly, she should get an interior

586
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.519
designer into that miserable gray room they were just in.

587
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:54.660
Get some paintings on the wall. whatever it is.

588
00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:57.480
It's a horribly designed room.

589
00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:00.180
I'm surprised anyone can think at all in that room.

590
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:02.279
It's very strange.

591
00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:06.720
It's so much worse than the observation lounge was on Star Trek

592
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.480
the next generation. very nice tracking shot.

593
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:11.039
The camera sort of tilt in.

594
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:12.660
It's following a good lick.

595
00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:14.160
We doing the West Wing talking walk.

596
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:16.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

597
00:27:16.259 --> 00:27:17.339
It's not too bad, is it?

598
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:19.619
Oh, this is where she chews her out, isn't it?

599
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:21.240
Did Chakotay leave any clue?

600
00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:22.980
Oh, and by the way, Mr. Chewbac.

601
00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:28.140
I want a list of all security procedures on my desk by the morning

602
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:28.440
all right?

603
00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:30.839
Yeah.

604
00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:35.220
So again, we're finally kind of working out what's happening.

605
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.539
I think I think that Janeway is just fantastically good here

606
00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:39.900
though.

607
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.059
Like just in all of these scenes.

608
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.980
Like she...

609
00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:47.039
There's a, there's a level of control.

610
00:27:47.099 --> 00:27:49.740
Like she's really, really business-like and she's really, really

611
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:50.940
self-controlled.

612
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.539
And I just think all of her reactions are brilliant.

613
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:55.920
Like she's such a good captain.

614
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:59.940
Well, you say that, but I also think she lets just these little

615
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.400
moments of humanity slip in. as well.

616
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:04.440
And she's really good at that.

617
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:07.680
Like, you know, just her look to the side or her voice will break

618
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.839
at a certain point or something, you know?

619
00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.900
That's what I mean by control because you get a sense that she's

620
00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:13.920
controlling something.

621
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:15.059
Do you know what I mean?

622
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:20.220
That she's she's doing her job, but she's feeling it and stuff.

623
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:22.079
And sometimes it's extremely subtle, I think.

624
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.400
And then wake up to this man with a head full of dog chew toys.

625
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:27.839
Yeah, yeah.

626
00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:33.539
And again, like this scene is not that interesting, is it?

627
00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:38.460
I guess there is, there's a shift between the 2 of them.

628
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:41.220
Because, I mean, the big, the interesting thing between this

629
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.779
relationship is who's in charge.

630
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:43.619
Do you know what I mean?

631
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.920
And obviously what has to happen is that Cesca needs to be in

632
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.160
charge, but Marge Culler needs to think he's in charge.

633
00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:54.000
And so we get a little bit of that here.

634
00:28:54.779 --> 00:28:59.279
And then when the shit hits the fan, she kind of takes over and

635
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:00.180
just gives the commands.

636
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.079
The mostril, the home buy, and the...

637
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:07.079
Look, I knew you'd get to this conclusion eventually.

638
00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:08.579
And that's why I've already said that.

639
00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:11.400
I've already invited them here, you know?

640
00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:14.940
But this bit where he's physically threatening her.

641
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:15.599
Do you know what I mean?

642
00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:17.460
And she is actually taken back.

643
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:19.140
Do you know what I mean?

644
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.059
Like that, like the way she's playing it?

645
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:23.819
sucked his finger or something, you know, took the power away from

646
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:24.059
him.

647
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:25.799
Oh, she kind of does.

648
00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:28.380
But she does.

649
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:29.099
Oh, forgive me.

650
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:30.480
She says forgive me. yeah.

651
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:34.980
But then he immediately says, he immediately takes

652
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:35.700
responsibility.

653
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:39.599
How did the other sex respond to my request, which is the one that

654
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:41.579
she sent, but signed his name on.

655
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.839
By the time we get to basics, Nathan, there ain't not of this.

656
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:46.619
She's totally in charge.

657
00:29:46.740 --> 00:29:47.880
Charge, yeah, yeah.

658
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:52.140
And I guess that is kind of fun, that having her in charge.

659
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:57.599
And again, yes, Marj becomes, goes from being a, yes, don't hit me

660
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.539
to now a sort of full on sex thing, I think.

661
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:04.319
It's the last one where she goes.

662
00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:04.920
Yeah.

663
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.240
Yes, March.

664
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:08.940
It's like right.

665
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:09.779
That's right.

666
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:11.579
Looking, right.

667
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.579
Martha Harkett's like, this is the best role I'm ever going to

668
00:30:14.579 --> 00:30:18.119
have. let's just go for it She would have had she wouldn't have

669
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:20.579
had anywhere near this amount of fun as that Romulan, you know.

670
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:22.980
No, that was a very absolute character.

671
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.799
Yeah, it's amazing to think of, but yes.

672
00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:29.339
We want we want you to play a mad soap opera villain on Voyager.

673
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:29.940
You up for it?

674
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:30.420
Let's go.

675
00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:33.599
Oh, this was a nice scene.

676
00:30:33.660 --> 00:30:34.200
It's a good scene.

677
00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:36.359
This is the best actors on the show.

678
00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:42.480
They forgot that B'lana and Janeway have a, what, a maternal

679
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.079
relationship.

680
00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:46.200
You know, that it's completely ditched from Series 4.

681
00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.299
The 7 comes in and this is gold.

682
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.319
It's such a shame because you're watching this in episodes like

683
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:53.519
prototype as well.

684
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:54.900
Remember, things like that.

685
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.099
It reaps rewards because the 2 actors are really good.

686
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:05.279
You see, I love this too, that, like, like, she's coming in.

687
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:08.099
So both of them are right, which is what's so interesting about

688
00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:08.339
it.

689
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:13.319
You know, um, uh, um, Bellana comes in and says he was in love

690
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.299
he's been humiliated, he's been embarrassed.

691
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:19.200
And Janeway, as a woman, is just able to say, so it's his big man

692
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.799
thing and like he's just going off to be a man and fuck that, you

693
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.319
know, like that's not behaving like a grown-up.

694
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:26.940
And like she's acknowledging it.

695
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.599
You know, I'm sure that was very painful, but, you know, this is

696
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:32.460
it's not his call.

697
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:35.640
And I liked it a lot.

698
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:37.619
Like I really... that's effective, right?

699
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.819
When you have a conversation between 2 people with opposing parts

700
00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:43.200
of you and they're both right.

701
00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:45.059
That's really interesting.

702
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.720
It is interesting and it's also just like the way that she

703
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.160
commands, like the way that Janeway works as a commander, because

704
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:59.220
she's not like, you know, she's not like Captain Pike or Burnham.

705
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:01.440
She's not really collegial.

706
00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:06.839
She is in charge and she's very, very definitely in charge in a

707
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:08.460
very sort of old-fashioned way.

708
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:12.900
And I really like that, and that they let her do that without her

709
00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:14.700
being blustering.

710
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:16.680
She never yells in this episode.

711
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.380
Like all of that stuff is so good.

712
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.579
Like she's just properly good.

713
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.299
But I like the conclusion, though, Rich, as well.

714
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:25.019
You know what?

715
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:26.160
Why don't we find him first?

716
00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.619
And then I'll deal with the discipline later.

717
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.140
So the look, that is the parental look.

718
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:31.920
Do you know what I mean?

719
00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:34.200
That little indulgent parental look as she leaves.

720
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.119
So we're still playing that.

721
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:39.779
They wanted and she says this in interviews, Kate.

722
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.559
They wanted her to, they, even though they're, they're fronting

723
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.740
this show with a woman, they wanted it played like a man.

724
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.880
They wanted it played like all of their male captains before that

725
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.440
we weren't going to rock the boat too much.

726
00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:54.000
But Kate's too good for that.

727
00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:59.519
And she can play it like a bloke and still have these wonderfully

728
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.259
sort of maternal moments as well.

729
00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:03.180
No, I don't think she does play it like a bloke.

730
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.759
I think she just plays it like a woman who is not going to put up

731
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.400
with your shit and particularly in that scene where it was a

732
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.079
particularly kind of the problem is Chakotay's being a fucking man

733
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.839
about the whole thing instead of being a grown-up.

734
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:17.880
This was so funny.

735
00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:20.940
I mean, that ship is clearly there next to the ship.

736
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.259
I don't know why they can't see that.

737
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:26.339
But they try and add in some sort of suspense, dun, dun, dun, dun

738
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:26.940
dun.

739
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.740
Yeah, the music is actually not too bad.

740
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:30.539
That great, Nathan.

741
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:31.920
I thought they could have gone a bit further.

742
00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:34.019
Well, you're grading on a curve.

743
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:35.279
He's still for...

744
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.279
The ceiling is the floor, yes?

745
00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:39.059
Yeah exactly.

746
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.559
Ah, I cohere an Akron pulse.

747
00:33:43.619 --> 00:33:44.220
That's what we need.

748
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:45.420
It's a polon pulse.

749
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.039
Oh, I'm so sorry.

750
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:50.279
I did not realise, yeah.

751
00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:55.440
Right, we're going to have this one light going off in the

752
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:55.740
shuttle.

753
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:56.819
That will be suspenseful.

754
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.099
And then we'll...

755
00:33:59.099 --> 00:34:01.380
We'll bring in the green lightning as well.

756
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.640
Yeah, yeah.

757
00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:04.259
No, that's the pollen tunnels, I think.

758
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.359
They just need to get him on board the ship because that's where

759
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:07.200
the interesting stuff happens.

760
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:08.039
Yeah, yeah.

761
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:11.340
And again, I think that the manoeuvres thing doesn't land.

762
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:15.179
One of the things about state of flux was that we were surprised

763
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:17.460
maybe twice in that episode.

764
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:19.980
But I don't think we were surprised here.

765
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.099
We saw, knew it was Cesca, but we were trying to figure out how on

766
00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:25.260
earth they were going to figure out.

767
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:31.860
Yeah, but we didn't know that Chakotay knew and we discovered that

768
00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:32.699
do you know what I mean?

769
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:34.920
There's that moment where he reveals that he's been playing her

770
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.579
and he's one ahead of her and that's interesting and clearly this

771
00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:41.039
wants to be that, but it doesn't manage it.

772
00:34:41.099 --> 00:34:41.579
I think.

773
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:45.420
State of luck sort of started like a murder she wrote, didn't it?

774
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.380
Like, who on earth is it?

775
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.360
And it ended as a Colombo.

776
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:49.619
How are we going to catch her out?

777
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.519
Yeah, yeah.

778
00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:51.119
Yeah.

779
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:53.639
I mean, like, I thought it was probably good.

780
00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:56.820
This is just a lot of space things happening this week.

781
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.519
You know, we're on spaceships, which is...

782
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:03.059
Well, it's about technology rather than people, really, isn't it?

783
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.780
Well, I mean, it's not, it's...

784
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:07.139
Yeah.

785
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:12.179
I mean, the technology is a bit of a McGuffin and there were, I

786
00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:15.239
mean, there were stolen things last time, weren't they on state of

787
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:15.659
flux?

788
00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:18.300
When was the stolen, was there stolen technology?

789
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:19.800
I can't remember now.

790
00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:22.679
Somebody was stuck into a console, wasn't I?

791
00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:23.460
Or something like that.

792
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:24.360
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

793
00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:26.159
I remember the feeling with a sort of technology.

794
00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:29.099
But the interesting stuff is the power games here.

795
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:32.400
Yeah, it's the colour Cesca Chakotay power game.

796
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:36.539
So the best scene of this is the interrogation scene where

797
00:35:36.539 --> 00:35:40.440
Chakotay refuses to give either of them any power of him despite

798
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:41.579
the fact that he's been beaten.

799
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:47.460
I love this moment where he says, lovely to see you again, and

800
00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:51.719
then just drops the thing and immediately gives her the phaser.

801
00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:55.019
You know, he's not going to shoot her, and she's annoyed by that.

802
00:35:55.559 --> 00:36:00.480
I like the fact that the thing about a state of flux was she knew

803
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.320
Chakotay so well that she could play him like an instrument

804
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:04.500
right?

805
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:06.300
She could pull the wall over his eyes.

806
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.659
Now he gets the chance in this episode to do it back to her

807
00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:12.719
because he knows all of her tricks and he spells them all out to

808
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:14.099
colour and goes, oh, let me guess.

809
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:15.480
She's told you this.

810
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:16.980
She's whispered in your ears.

811
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:18.659
She's promised you sex, you know.

812
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:19.920
It's really great.

813
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.699
Consequences, Voyager. learn from this.

814
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:24.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

815
00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:25.440
And yeah, yeah.

816
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:27.840
I guess I just think this isn't quite as good.

817
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:30.780
There's a little bit more space things.

818
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.059
Look, look at her reaction to this message.

819
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.679
Watch her face.

820
00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:38.039
Like, we...

821
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:38.460
Oh, wow.

822
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:40.500
Oh my god, yeah, yeah, yeah.

823
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:42.539
Yeah, just...

824
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.280
I move of the eyebrow.

825
00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:46.920
You know, like she's, she's hurt.

826
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:49.679
She's, you know, like, it's so good.

827
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:50.699
You're too good for this show.

828
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.500
You're too good.

829
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:57.539
Oh, dear. didn't utilise you well enough.

830
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.300
Oh, I did like the lighting in this scene.

831
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.699
I always like it when they put in sort of harsh lighting because

832
00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:04.739
there's so much of 90s track is flat lighting.

833
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:05.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

834
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.760
And at one point he's got the harsh light on his face and he's

835
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.500
really beaten and bloody.

836
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:11.219
Yeah.

837
00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:15.840
So, so you were comparing it to the scene where the lizard Zindi

838
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.340
the Zindi reptilian was beating up on Scott Bakula.

839
00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:21.900
Back on my planet.

840
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:26.099
We are really boring, stupid dinosaurs once that scene, yeah.

841
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:34.139
So, so, so Chakotay's, like, here, what's interesting is that, you

843
00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:36.239
know, um, he's...

844
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:37.800
Yeah, yeah, that's it.

845
00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:38.340
That's it.

846
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:39.179
They've got Ceska.

847
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:40.500
They've both had relationships.

848
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:43.860
Even this thing where she offers him a drink, like seems really

849
00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:48.360
kind of normal and she's, again, she's obviously playing him, but

850
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:50.639
she doesn't really convincingly, I think.

851
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:52.800
You know, she's pretty good.

852
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:56.340
There's a point made about that drink as well, isn't it?

853
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:57.420
Where she goes, you know what?

854
00:37:57.480 --> 00:37:59.400
It a pretty hideous drink, but I've got used to it.

855
00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:01.440
That's her talking about her circumstances.

856
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:02.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

857
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:03.360
Yeah.

858
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:03.840
Yeah.

859
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:07.019
This was basically the best I was going to get in the Delta

860
00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:07.619
Watron.

861
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:13.019
And I've gotten used to it and I'm in charge now.

862
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.800
But I just think they have good chemistry, the 2 of them.

863
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:17.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

864
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.500
But he's really good in this.

865
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.280
So he's properly good and he just checks out, doesn't he?

866
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:25.860
Do you remember when we watched him in resolutions at the end of

867
00:38:25.860 --> 00:38:26.760
his season as well?

868
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.159
As the romantic leader of that.

869
00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:32.579
Well, Kate was really the romantic leader of that, let's be

870
00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:32.760
honest.

871
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:34.619
Yeah, yeah, but he was awesome though.

872
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.119
He was really great.

873
00:38:36.179 --> 00:38:39.840
And then, like, you know, we almost did human error. this week.

874
00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:40.800
Yeah.

875
00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:45.059
If we'd have watched that, you would have seen a flat monotonous

876
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:49.320
performance where he's just dead behind the eyes and saying the

877
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:49.619
words.

878
00:38:49.619 --> 00:38:50.579
And fuck me.

879
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:51.960
They're giving him Jerry Ryan.

880
00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:54.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

881
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:54.780
Yeah.

882
00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:56.760
It's a shame.

883
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.320
Yeah, she is a shame.

884
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:04.800
Because he was, I don't think there's a single character that they

885
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:08.219
do not evolve and improve in DS9, and I don't think there's a

886
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:10.199
single actor that doesn't get better with every season.

887
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:11.340
Yeah, yeah.

888
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.340
Yeah, but all this stuff gets dropped on the floor.

889
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.820
The relationship, you know, the relationship between Tuvok and

890
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:18.780
Chicone is interesting.

891
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:21.780
The relationship between 2 Vulcan B'lana is interesting because

892
00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:23.159
they were all on the ship together.

893
00:39:23.219 --> 00:39:26.760
You know, um, and he was undercover the relationship between

894
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:28.199
Janeway and him.

895
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:30.480
Like, you know, all of that stuff.

896
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.519
So that's dropped off to resolution, basically.

897
00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:36.480
The relationship between Jacosay and Torres is remembered maybe

898
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:37.320
once a year.

899
00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:42.719
And the only relationship they really remember or focus on going

900
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:47.940
forward is 7 and the doctor, 7 and Janeway. and occasionally Jane

901
00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:48.840
Way and the doctor.

902
00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:51.239
It becomes that sort of triumvirant again, doesn't it?

903
00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:53.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

904
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:56.940
It's a shame Yeah, it is a shame, particularly.

905
00:39:56.940 --> 00:39:59.159
I mean, team Rush.

906
00:39:59.219 --> 00:40:01.500
This stuff, this season 2 stuff.

907
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.159
Star Trek fans look at it and sort of dismiss and go, oh, well

908
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:07.980
that's when Voyager wasn't working and I don't agree with that.

909
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:09.480
No, no, no.

910
00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:11.579
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

911
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:14.760
There's all sorts of things wrong with it, but everyone's, you

912
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:19.739
know, trying and everyone is so much more interesting than they

913
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:20.280
end up being.

914
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:22.800
More entertaining, you know?

915
00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:24.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

916
00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:28.800
I mean, like, like with Michelle Yeoh in Discovery, right, when

917
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.619
they were like, well, we can't get rid of this evil version of

918
00:40:31.619 --> 00:40:32.340
Georgia.

919
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.179
She's too thumb.

920
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:34.739
Let's just hammer on the ship.

921
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:35.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

922
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:37.559
They could have brought Cesca on the ship, couldn't they?

923
00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:40.679
And just had a insulting everybody every 5 minutes.

924
00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:44.460
Well, they did have their consulting psychopath on the ship for a

925
00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:48.000
bit as well at this point too, and killed him off in the big

926
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:48.719
purge.

927
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:51.420
Two episodes a year.

928
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:52.380
Yeah.

929
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:56.099
In fact, I made that point recently when doing commentaries

930
00:40:56.099 --> 00:41:00.179
elsewhere that, like Dukat, Sudo could have been a really

931
00:41:00.179 --> 00:41:03.360
interesting, recurring, villainous character.

932
00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:04.980
Yeah.

933
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:05.820
Yeah.

934
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.480
It's what I said. what I said when we 1st did start a Voyager.

935
00:41:09.539 --> 00:41:11.820
Remember I went on that mad rant about missed opportunities?

936
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:13.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

937
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:17.639
It's just a lingering taste in my mouth of missed opportunities.

938
00:41:17.699 --> 00:41:20.940
And it's when I watch episodes like this where I can see the

939
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:21.420
potential.

940
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:22.739
It's not formed, but it's there.

941
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:23.639
Yeah.

942
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:24.239
Yeah.

943
00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:26.280
Well, this scene, I mean, these 2 are great.

944
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:30.659
You know, and look, like Janeway's completely impassive.

945
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:35.280
She doesn't respond, but then she says, well, go, let's resume a

946
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:35.579
course.

947
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:36.480
We have to go and get him.

948
00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:37.019
You're right.

949
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:38.099
Do you know what I mean?

950
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.599
But, oh, and then the just the subtle eyebrow thing, a little

951
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:47.219
eyebrow distress moment and before she leaves just to say yes, you

952
00:41:47.219 --> 00:41:48.239
know, like I do care.

953
00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:51.059
So here's what they get right here, right?

954
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.219
So this is the, this is the scene.

955
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:54.539
It's a lot more visceral.

956
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:58.980
And they've given Chakotay, they've given Beltran a lot more

957
00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:00.300
makeup.

958
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.340
So his lip is swollen.

959
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:05.820
It looks like it hurts him to move his face.

960
00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:09.539
And it never looks like that in that scene with Bacular.

961
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:11.400
He's just got some blood painted on him.

962
00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:14.579
But the whole time it's interfering with his speech.

963
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:18.059
You know, like he's been so beaten up, his lip is so swollen that

964
00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:19.380
it's interfering with his speech.

965
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.139
All of that stuff is so much better.

966
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:26.159
Um, I think it's a shame to shoot him from below like that so we

967
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.119
can't see his face properly.

968
00:42:27.179 --> 00:42:31.019
There is a bit where he is punched towards the end of this scene

969
00:42:31.019 --> 00:42:31.260
right?

970
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:33.480
And instead of reacting in pain.

971
00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:34.800
He laughs at colour.

972
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:36.119
Yeah, yeah.

973
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:37.860
She's going to kill you, Kala.

974
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.659
But the way Belgram plays it.

975
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:42.480
It's so against the way you would imagine someone.

976
00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:45.000
He's never an interesting performer.

977
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.380
Why is he suddenly interested?

978
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.400
Even that scene, he's saying you're not telling me what I need to

979
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:50.699
know.

980
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:54.059
And Chikode says to him, no, I'm telling you exactly what you need

981
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:54.480
to know.

982
00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:56.099
It's really good.

983
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:00.840
It's really funny. piper in your nest Please watch your back, you

984
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:01.019
know.

985
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.780
The little mole on her stomach.

986
00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:06.960
That's such a Star Trek thing, such a 90 Star Trek thing.

987
00:43:07.019 --> 00:43:10.440
And I guess you've seen it line is so funny.

988
00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:12.780
Like, again, that's a properly good line.

989
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:15.420
Color's so pathetic.

990
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:19.079
He's in charge of this enormous sect of Kazon, and he's being

991
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.599
undermined by both characters.

992
00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:23.099
Yeah, by someone who's tied up.

993
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:27.119
Yeah, like he's eye, like he's got a machiner sort of thing.

994
00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:28.019
I think it's good.

995
00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:33.179
I did like the POV shot with the wibbly wobbly special effect as

996
00:43:33.179 --> 00:43:34.440
the drug goes through him.

997
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:34.860
Yeah.

998
00:43:34.860 --> 00:43:39.599
I'm going to give you firsthand information colour.

999
00:43:39.659 --> 00:43:41.880
Oh, she's going to kill you.

1000
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:45.539
When she's through with you, she's gonna kill you.

1001
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:48.300
I wish that's not what happens, is it?

1002
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:50.159
No.

1003
00:43:50.219 --> 00:43:51.059
No, no, no, no.

1004
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:53.699
It's some weird techno babble and the ship goes for a pocket of

1005
00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:55.559
something and they all end up dead.

1006
00:43:55.619 --> 00:43:56.579
It's just so shit.

1007
00:43:56.699 --> 00:43:57.900
That's so crap.

1008
00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:02.880
It is literally the writer saying, we can't even be bothered.

1009
00:44:02.940 --> 00:44:03.659
We can't be bothered.

1010
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:05.219
We just want them all gone.

1011
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:06.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1012
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:09.000
Which is a shame.

1013
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.980
Oh, now she's going to sort of purr and stroke him and yeah, well

1014
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:18.659
so nursing back to health.

1015
00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:24.119
I knew how this episode ended, obviously, but when she comes up

1016
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.599
and sticks this thing in his neck, I'd kind of forgotten why she

1017
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:30.840
did that, but she obviously renders him unconscious so that she

1018
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:31.800
can jerk him off.

1019
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:36.059
Is that it?

1020
00:44:36.179 --> 00:44:38.159
I mean, didn't she just take his DNA?

1021
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:39.420
I don't think she goes.

1022
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.900
I think the way that you get the DNA though is...

1023
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:43.380
Oh, please.

1024
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.639
Come on.

1025
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.400
That's how babies are made.

1026
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:48.420
Do I need to explain it?

1027
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:51.719
Has she just knocked him out with hypnol?

1028
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:56.039
She gave him a roofie and then, no, she's going to change.

1029
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:57.539
I mean, I think that's a bit uncomfortable.

1030
00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:58.679
Well, this seems happening.

1031
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:03.239
If we're talking about Seska raping Chakose right now.

1032
00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:05.400
Well, she's a villain.

1033
00:45:06.059 --> 00:45:07.440
Okay.

1034
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:13.739
I mean, I mean, I'm going to say I don't care about that.

1035
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.219
I don't care about the fact that he's violated because I love the

1036
00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:17.579
ending.

1037
00:45:17.820 --> 00:45:20.039
And the consequences of it.

1038
00:45:20.099 --> 00:45:21.480
And obviously they're not.

1039
00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:22.739
That's not where they're going.

1040
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.199
That is like in retrospect.

1041
00:45:25.260 --> 00:45:27.480
That thing is extracting DNA.

1042
00:45:27.539 --> 00:45:31.500
It's not, um, it's not uh, rending him unconscious, is it?

1043
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:32.760
Couldn't they have done, though?

1044
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:34.679
Like, just totally committed to it.

1045
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.079
When she comes up and says, I'm pregnant, you're going to be a

1046
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:40.199
daddy or whatever, and done a freeze frame, like a good soap

1047
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:43.800
with...

1048
00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:46.860
Executive producer.

1049
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:48.300
Rick Burman.

1050
00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:50.519
It would have been great.

1051
00:45:50.579 --> 00:45:51.780
No.

1052
00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:54.960
Or even an EastEnders style.

1053
00:45:54.960 --> 00:46:03.719
Instead, it was like...

1054
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:04.980
Oh, what a shame.

1055
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:07.920
So again, this is sort of super boring as well.

1056
00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:12.960
They're standing around talking about how they can beam him off.

1057
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:14.519
And there are now no rules.

1058
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:17.579
Essentially, you can beam through shields, you can beam at warp.

1059
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:21.539
Uh, you can beam at warp while someone else is stationary, uh, like

1060
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:22.559
it's a whole thing.

1061
00:46:22.619 --> 00:46:25.380
It all is now just a sort of choice of protocols.

1062
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.699
And in a way, I don't care, but it just seems like a sort of

1063
00:46:29.699 --> 00:46:30.960
boring conversation to have.

1064
00:46:31.019 --> 00:46:32.460
And that's all that scene is about.

1065
00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:36.539
Can I be Lawrence Llewellyn Bowen again for a second?

1066
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.000
I don't know what that is, but yes.

1067
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:41.940
He's the fellow that goes around, you know, it does interior

1068
00:46:41.940 --> 00:46:44.760
design in people's houses in outlandish ways.

1069
00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:51.179
But like, the more I watch Voyager, the duller those sets seem, and

1070
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:55.920
they were just on that gray bridge, which is so boring with no

1071
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:59.039
light sources to give any of it any atmosphere.

1072
00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:03.539
We cut to this Kazon ship, which is lit from below from the table

1073
00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:04.559
from the side.

1074
00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:06.300
It's like a DS noise there.

1075
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.039
It is a DS9 set.

1076
00:47:08.099 --> 00:47:08.940
It's got curves.

1077
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.780
It's basically brown and green, which is the same colour that

1078
00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:15.420
everything is on deep season, apart from when it's orange.

1079
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:18.000
But it has light sources to make it.

1080
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:19.920
Look at the way this man is lit from below.

1081
00:47:19.980 --> 00:47:22.860
It's more interesting than that boring lighting on Voyager.

1082
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.019
I actually played it like that.

1083
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:27.179
They were going for with that gun metal green.

1084
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:35.820
So, like, I remember my initial reaction being that they've taken

1085
00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:39.000
all the bits of Star Trek, the Next Generation, they're a little

1086
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:42.599
bit naff, and have improved on them.

1087
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.480
And so they, it looks a little bit more serious.

1088
00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:49.380
I mean, you know how stupid, I think that bridge said is on the

1089
00:47:49.380 --> 00:47:52.619
Enterprise D. it's ridiculous And so this is a little bit more

1090
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:55.920
sort of sensible, but it is also just very boring.

1091
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:57.539
Like it is very boring.

1092
00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:00.840
I mean, did they just forget that we knights look at nice colours

1093
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:01.920
in the 90s?

1094
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:02.519
Yeah, yeah.

1095
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:07.800
Well, I think that the 80s track reacts against original tracks, um

1096
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:11.940
very bold pop art, technicolour, primary colours.

1097
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.139
Because then curse my trek, reaction leads into it.

1098
00:48:16.139 --> 00:48:17.400
Absolutely.

1099
00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:18.239
Yeah, yeah.

1100
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:19.920
All the colours of the rainbow.

1101
00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:24.480
It's like when when Doctor Who came back in 2005 and Russy Davis

1102
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:26.940
was like, I want pretty images on the screen.

1103
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.179
I want people to want to look at the pictures we're giving them.

1104
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:34.380
Well, I mean, think about the, think about the three, like the, the

1105
00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:36.480
uniforms in original track.

1106
00:48:36.539 --> 00:48:38.340
And what are we wearing now?

1107
00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:39.420
We're wearing black.

1108
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:43.559
And then later on in Deep Space 9, It's going to be black and

1109
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:44.039
gray.

1110
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:48.659
You know, like the uniforms get more and more boring, though.

1111
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:50.039
Yeah, no, I do too.

1112
00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:54.300
I think it's kind of funny, isn't it, that Deep Space 9 obviously

1113
00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:58.320
updates the uniforms but Voyager can't because of the premise.

1114
00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:03.420
Um, uh, and they get a message from the Alpha Quadrant.

1115
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:05.820
And then they're all wearing the 1st contact uniforms.

1116
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1117
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.539
But those are black.

1118
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:10.500
They're so boring.

1119
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.000
And, you know, again, discovery kind of does it, doesn't it?

1120
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:20.760
It does the, let's do, you know, let's do blue uniforms, like

1121
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:24.719
Enterprise, until the end of the show, when they kind of go, no

1122
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:28.139
primary colours, and that's what strange new world stars as well.

1123
00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:31.800
That's why that mirror universe, Enterprise episode looks so

1124
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:32.280
great.

1125
00:49:32.340 --> 00:49:35.099
Everybody was in those original... so good.

1126
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:36.659
So much better.

1127
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:40.619
We had no idea those people could be so pretty. they got out of

1128
00:49:40.619 --> 00:49:45.000
there. that's right Soilers, cleaning outfits or whatever they're

1129
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:45.599
wearing, yeah.

1130
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:51.119
I did like that scene a minute ago where Carlos's trying to

1131
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:54.300
pretend he's got the command codes and the feather's going, well

1132
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:55.559
gone, ain't use them.

1133
00:49:55.619 --> 00:49:56.639
They're attacking us right.

1134
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:02.099
But you see, again, it takes us too long to get there.

1135
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.960
And, you know, what ends up happening is we have some kind of

1136
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:13.199
deflection, diffusion beam, shield field thing over Chakotay.

1137
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.739
And so we decide to just kidnap everyone else and they shouldn't

1138
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:17.880
perhaps have found that out.

1139
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:23.460
Takes too long to get there and getting there is too boring, you

1140
00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:23.760
know.

1141
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:28.380
Yes, but where then we do get the fabulous scene between Janeway

1142
00:50:28.380 --> 00:50:31.019
and Shakose, where she does get to chew him out at the end.

1143
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:31.679
Yeah, yeah.

1144
00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:33.179
It's an awesome one.

1145
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:34.619
Like, you know what?

1146
00:50:34.679 --> 00:50:37.500
I mean, I'm a bit embarrassed now to go back and listen to my

1147
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:40.440
reaction to choosing this at the end of the last episode because I

1148
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:42.719
seem to promise you an action masterpiece, you know?

1149
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:46.199
Absolutely gripping, but no.

1150
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:49.739
No, maybe about 2.5 minutes of it is.

1151
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:51.900
Yeah, it's not terrible.

1152
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:54.840
I enjoyed it and I love Martha Hacker.

1153
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:57.480
I love the regulars. characters first.

1154
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:01.559
Yeah, yeah, I think this scores quite well on these characters.

1155
00:51:01.739 --> 00:51:05.639
I love how the Kazon don't let him go with her.

1156
00:51:05.699 --> 00:51:07.139
Like it...

1157
00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:10.800
And they were going back. they don't have the transporter

1158
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:11.159
anymore.

1159
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:16.199
We're suffering from randomly fluctuating modulations here.

1160
00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:18.059
Oh, yeah, like a terrible time.

1161
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:20.940
All of this stuff, like it's just like... you localise the

1162
00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:21.599
dampening field.

1163
00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:24.300
Please, just say it's going to take a long time.

1164
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:25.800
You don't need to tell us why.

1165
00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:28.679
Oh, no, Joe boy's got an idea.

1166
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:30.300
What's that going to be?

1167
00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:31.380
Loads of take the babble.

1168
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:35.519
No, her idea is get these other fuckers off and transport them

1169
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:40.739
onto the ship, which is actually a great, like a really great idea

1170
00:51:40.739 --> 00:51:44.460
which is really fun and comprehensible and hilarious.

1171
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:47.340
She's a smart cookie, isn't she?

1172
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:51.539
And it's all going horribly wrong for colour right at this moment

1173
00:51:51.539 --> 00:51:54.059
when he gets beamed on board, which is really funny.

1174
00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:56.219
Like he's actually completely lost at this point.

1175
00:51:56.340 --> 00:51:59.760
And finally, chew on guests to do something.

1176
00:52:01.139 --> 00:52:04.739
We've disabled your weapons, gentlemen, you know.

1177
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:09.119
But that guy says something like, I will make you very sorry for

1178
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:09.960
this colour.

1179
00:52:10.019 --> 00:52:11.460
Again, that's so boring.

1180
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:15.539
And then look at colour, colours reaction here is pretty great as

1181
00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:15.719
well.

1182
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:20.460
But if this was like, if they were less uptight, Chuba would have

1183
00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:23.400
a line, like, you know, I've been embarrassed by you people a lot

1184
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:23.820
today.

1185
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:25.920
Can we have to shut our back, please?

1186
00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:30.360
Colour's trying to do a charming smile, but he's too annoyed to be

1187
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:31.260
able to pull it off.

1188
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:33.239
It's really funny, like he pulls this phone.

1189
00:52:33.300 --> 00:52:37.199
It's hampered by that 90s direction because they stay on the 2 of

1190
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.719
them staring at each other for about 5 seconds.

1191
00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:41.099
No one's saying a word.

1192
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:46.079
No, but colour sells that. absolutely sells it.

1193
00:52:46.139 --> 00:52:48.000
Oh, here we go.

1194
00:52:48.059 --> 00:52:52.440
Time fudge, Kotay to... faces consequences.

1195
00:52:52.500 --> 00:52:54.960
But look at look at her.

1196
00:52:55.019 --> 00:52:56.579
Do you know what I mean?

1197
00:52:56.699 --> 00:52:58.980
Like, she's absolutely not giving him anything.

1198
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:03.420
She is making him squirm, but not by being aggressive or

1199
00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:03.599
anything.

1200
00:53:03.659 --> 00:53:05.099
Like, she's so good.

1201
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:08.159
Not in a way that Cisco or Picard would...

1202
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:09.239
Yeah, they would chain somebody out.

1203
00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:09.840
Yep.

1204
00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:14.400
And the thing where she says, you have just made my job much, much

1205
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.360
more difficult.

1206
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:16.920
That's so good.

1207
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:19.380
Like that's really properly good.

1208
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:21.960
It wasn't almost accusatory.

1209
00:53:22.019 --> 00:53:24.420
She goes, why do you choose to ignore procedure?

1210
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:26.340
It's like a genuine question.

1211
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:27.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1212
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:31.559
But she, he keeps coming up with these rationalisations for his

1213
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:35.940
behaviour and she just keeps saying, no, you were not, you know, it

1214
00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:39.119
wasn't your call. all of this sort of stuff.

1215
00:53:39.179 --> 00:53:40.500
But this bit here.

1216
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:42.539
How do you expect me to keep order?

1217
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:44.760
How do you expect me to keep order?

1218
00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:46.800
And he's just absolutely embarrassed by it.

1219
00:53:46.860 --> 00:53:49.019
And he's selling it too.

1220
00:53:49.139 --> 00:53:52.980
He should go, look, I've only done it once, all right?

1221
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:54.360
Go to D Space nine.

1222
00:53:54.420 --> 00:53:55.920
Cisco has Dax doing it every season.

1223
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:01.260
No, it is great.

1224
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:02.159
It is really great.

1225
00:54:02.219 --> 00:54:04.260
Yeah, and her.

1226
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:06.659
In case in case it means anything anymore.

1227
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.519
And he goes, it does mean something.

1228
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:09.840
It does because it means something to him.

1229
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:11.400
I think that's really good Yeah.

1230
00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:12.300
Yeah.

1231
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.000
I mean, it's cheesy because it means I've let you down, blah, blah

1232
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:15.780
blah. like whatever.

1233
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.179
But like I thought that scene was pretty good.

1234
00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:20.940
But the performances are subtle.

1235
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.019
It's nice.

1236
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:23.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1237
00:54:23.219 --> 00:54:26.880
It's almost like more moving for not shouting.

1238
00:54:26.940 --> 00:54:28.860
Yeah, I think she's really good.

1239
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:31.139
I mean, it's just that she's incredibly great.

1240
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:33.420
And here's the singer.

1241
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:37.500
No, I was lying, this is the best scene of the episode. is really

1242
00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:37.860
good.

1243
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:40.860
Can I do it quickly?

1244
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:44.699
Oh, wait, I think...

1245
00:54:44.699 --> 00:54:45.300
Sorry.

1246
00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:48.780
Hello, Nathan.

1247
00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:53.639
While you were unconscious after we watched a few Star Trek

1248
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:54.119
episodes.

1249
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:57.840
Apparently I jokes you off.

1250
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:03.420
Surprise.

1251
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.800
Look at that smile.

1252
00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:08.699
Oh my god.

1253
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:11.039
She is fucking cadaverous.

1254
00:55:11.099 --> 00:55:11.579
I love it.

1255
00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:12.539
She's so good.

1256
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:18.000
And then just the look on his fight.

1257
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:20.340
He doesn't quite sell the horror enough, though, does it?

1258
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:22.559
I think he does. he's actually pretty good.

1259
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:24.119
I think he probably sells it.

1260
00:55:24.179 --> 00:55:27.599
I mean, he doesn't go melodramatic. thought that was great.

1261
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:28.679
That's really...

1262
00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:33.539
I mean, it's doing that thing of ending with such a zinger of a

1263
00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:35.639
last scene that you're convinced...

1264
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.139
The rest of the episode is really good.

1265
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:37.800
Yeah.

1266
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:40.079
It's, I'd say it's good.

1267
00:55:40.139 --> 00:55:41.099
It's not great.

1268
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:41.699
It's good.

1269
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:46.500
And it's more than unusually competent for a character tell for

1270
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:48.059
Voyager, which is quite nice.

1271
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:50.760
Well, I think it's a thing that we've always said about early

1272
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.719
Voyager, is that that version of the show where it's actually Star

1273
00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:58.679
Trek Voyager is really quite promising and when they abandon that

1274
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:03.360
to just do Star Trek, It's a lot less interesting and it needn't

1275
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:04.019
have been.

1276
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.440
You know, something like Strange New Worlds is just doing Star

1277
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:08.099
Trek.

1278
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:11.579
And it's not just that it looks better and more expensive and

1279
00:56:11.579 --> 00:56:11.820
stuff.

1280
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.340
It's sort of more carefully thought through.

1281
00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:18.360
But you remember I said to you that they were told that they had

1282
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:22.739
to up their game with Sirius 2. something wasn't working within

1283
00:56:22.739 --> 00:56:23.340
the series.

1284
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:26.760
You know, earlier on in series 2, you've got twisted and illosion

1285
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:29.340
and terrible episodes like that.

1286
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:34.199
And I love the way they react to that with the episodes coming

1287
00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:34.619
up.

1288
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:38.579
The 2nd half of two, I've always said, is my favourite run of

1289
00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:39.000
Voyager.

1290
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:44.699
Next, you get resistance, which is Joel Gray coming in and having

1291
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:46.800
scenes with Kate Mulgrew for a whole episode.

1292
00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:49.980
So the acting is out of this world in the next episode.

1293
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:51.539
We've done alliances already.

1294
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:53.039
That did lots of interesting things.

1295
00:56:53.099 --> 00:56:56.699
Okay, we'll skip over threshold. everyone has a bad day.

1296
00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:01.860
Meld brings in serial killer of the week, as played by Brad Doyle

1297
00:57:01.860 --> 00:57:06.360
against Tim Ross to do some serious acting, Dreadnaught is a

1298
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:10.320
brilliant Baladatores episode with a Kardassian bomb with her

1299
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:13.019
voice, threatening to destroy an entire planet.

1300
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:16.079
Deaf wish we've covered, which, you know, we had a mixed response

1301
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:17.099
too, but was interesting.

1302
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:17.639
Yeah.

1303
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:22.199
Deadlock there where you get 2 Janeway's, 2 ships, the Badillians

1304
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:23.400
trying to take everybody apart.

1305
00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:29.820
The Thor, which is Michael McKeon in the VR as Fear, Chuvix, which

1306
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:33.780
has an ending that people still talk about to this day. resolutions

1307
00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:36.420
which leans into the Jane Wenchakote romance.

1308
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:40.500
Basics part one, which ends on a fuck off cliffhanger, where the

1309
00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:44.579
entirety of Voyager is dumped on a planet and Cesca and Kala ride

1310
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:45.300
away with the ship.

1311
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:47.880
They really do up their game, I think.

1312
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:51.239
I think they take the criticism and go, row, well, what can we

1313
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:51.480
do?

1314
00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:54.840
And yeah, I think this is sort of the 1st step.

1315
00:57:54.900 --> 00:57:58.019
It ain't there, but they're definitely moving in the right

1316
00:57:58.019 --> 00:57:58.440
direction.

1317
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:09.539
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1318
00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:11.699
work out where we're going next time.

1319
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:16.440
You chose manoeuvres, and so it's my turn to choose now.

1320
00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:19.019
Just say one thing very quickly.

1321
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:24.239
I'd like to say that my continual efforts to overhype episodes

1322
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:29.820
before we watch them. which I've been doing now since we started

1323
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:33.719
on Star Trek project, has remained intact.

1324
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:38.639
So we're going to choose an episode from one of our 3 least

1325
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:41.099
covered series by percentage.

1326
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:45.239
And those are in order.

1327
00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:50.400
Discovery, we have done the smallest proportion of, then lower

1328
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:54.179
decks, which obviously landed 10 new episodes over the last couple

1329
00:58:54.179 --> 00:58:54.780
of months.

1330
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:58.739
And so it's fallen in the rankings and then Star Trek the next

1331
00:58:58.739 --> 00:58:59.340
generation.

1332
00:58:59.460 --> 00:59:01.920
So we're going to do one of those.

1333
00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:04.980
I'm just going to say a prayer for lower decks.

1334
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:05.940
Okay.

1335
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:07.380
Please, lower decks.

1336
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:07.739
Come on.

1337
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.920
You know what's, what could be interesting by putting in lower

1338
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.059
decks in next generation is, is, uh, one is an incredibly worthy

1339
00:59:15.059 --> 00:59:18.900
90s trek show, and another one is one taking a piss out of an

1340
00:59:18.900 --> 00:59:20.639
incredibly worthy 90s TV show.

1341
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:23.699
Let's see if we're going to take the Mickey or we're going to be

1342
00:59:23.699 --> 00:59:23.880
serious.

1343
00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:25.679
That's right All right.

1344
00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:26.820
Let's see how we go.

1345
00:59:27.420 --> 00:59:30.059
Oh, we've done this one already.

1346
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:35.159
It's series one, episode 20 of Star Trek, the Next Generation

1347
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:42.780
Heart of Glory, which we did in episode 111. of those rare gems in

1348
00:59:42.780 --> 00:59:43.139
season one.

1349
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:48.960
Ooh, this is a properly good episode of Star Trek The Next

1350
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:49.440
Generation.

1351
00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:51.059
Are you sure?

1352
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:58.800
Well, it's season 3, episode 4 who watches the watches.

1353
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:00.539
Oh my god.

1354
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:02.880
I've watched this recently.

1355
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:06.239
I know this is still very good.

1356
01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:11.280
I think it'd be fun to do a properly good episode of Star Trek The

1357
01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:11.940
Next Generation.

1358
01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:16.380
And it's one that the show goes back to and kind of minds for sort

1359
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:19.559
of, you know, in future installments and stuff.

1360
01:00:19.619 --> 01:00:23.760
It's sort of important to the show, but it is very definitely them

1361
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:29.159
kind of getting it right very early on in series three.

1362
01:00:29.219 --> 01:00:31.679
I'm going to say something controversial.

1363
01:00:31.739 --> 01:00:37.260
I think this might be the 1st time, the next generation gets an

1364
01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:38.940
episode completely right.

1365
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:42.480
And I'm including Measure of a Man, because I think there's

1366
01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:43.139
problems in that.

1367
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:45.179
There's a few problems in Q who.

1368
01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:49.800
This is where the show has kicked itself into gear and it delivers

1369
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:50.820
a great episode as well.

1370
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:52.800
Yeah, I think do.

1371
01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:53.699
It's really good.

1372
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:55.079
It's the Mintarkins, isn't it?

1373
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:57.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. really like it.

1374
01:00:57.659 --> 01:00:59.219
I think it's really super interesting.

1375
01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.079
In all sorts of ways.

1376
01:01:01.139 --> 01:01:02.940
I don't want to kind of blow.

1377
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:06.480
We'll get to compare this one to an episode we've already covered

1378
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:10.320
when we were together, which is justice, because it mirrors a

1379
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:14.159
scene from justice, where they bring up in inverted commas

1380
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:18.599
primitive to the ship and show them, you know, their planet from

1381
01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:21.659
space, but this shows you how to get it, how to do it.

1382
01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:24.300
Yeah, yeah, it's properly good, isn't it?

1383
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:25.500
It's funny.

1384
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:30.840
I actually wrote an intro to this episode in Tom Selinski's book

1385
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:31.800
as well.

1386
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:33.900
Boy, last year, yeah.

1387
01:01:33.960 --> 01:01:36.179
So it is one of my favourites.

1388
01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:39.539
You know, your name keeps turning up in books, you know, when I'm

1389
01:01:39.539 --> 01:01:40.920
sort of not looking.

1390
01:01:40.980 --> 01:01:45.059
The Doctor Who Target book, if anyone cares to find that, or your

1391
01:01:45.059 --> 01:01:48.000
name turns up in a Doctor Who book, human nature as well. you

1392
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:48.179
know?

1393
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:51.900
Honestly, you get everywhere, you do.

1394
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:52.440
I do.

1395
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:52.980
Yeah.

1396
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:55.199
A totally best podcast.

1397
01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:56.940
That's what you think.

1398
01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:57.840
Absolutely. we do it.

1399
01:01:57.960 --> 01:01:58.320
Yes.

1400
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:09.179
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1401
01:02:09.179 --> 01:02:13.380
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

1402
01:02:12.420 --> 01:02:15.960
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1403
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:16.860
media accounts.

1404
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:21.059
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

1405
01:02:21.059 --> 01:02:22.320
by Cameron Lam.

1406
01:02:22.380 --> 01:02:26.940
This episode was recorded on the 14th of January 2025 and released

1407
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:28.440
on the 17th of January.

1408
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:32.699
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, The Next Generation, and

1409
01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:33.840
watches the watches.

1410
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:52.199
Yeah, oh, banger.

1411
01:02:52.260 --> 01:02:53.039
Bang a bang.

1412
01:02:53.099 --> 01:02:54.960
Oh, I'll watch that today.

1413
01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:58.019
It's got a great score as well, that episode.

1414
01:02:58.079 --> 01:02:58.980
Oh, does it?

1415
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:02.639
Yeah, listen to the score when you're when you're watching it.

1416
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:04.380
Okay, I will.

1417
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:05.099
Yeah.

1418
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:08.940
There, it's still in that Ron Jones...

1419
01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:10.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1420
01:03:10.500 --> 01:03:14.219
Electronic music stuff, but he's actually doing good music.

1421
01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:17.880
It's not just crazy.

1422
01:03:17.940 --> 01:03:20.219
It's really good, isn't it?

1423
01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:22.500
Even the decision to make them proto- Vulcans.

1424
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.500
Like that's an interesting thing.

1425
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:28.739
It's there's tons of location work in it.

1426
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:30.000
Yeah, tons.

1427
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:31.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1428
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:34.619
All of the guest actors are brilliant in that one.

1429
01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:37.559
Um, the the, the father and the child.

1430
01:03:37.619 --> 01:03:39.480
Yeah, that's right.

1431
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:41.400
I remember them really well in particular.

1432
01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:42.659
And the old guy as well.

1433
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:46.920
Yeah And the sort of power struggles amongst them when they're

1434
01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:50.280
trying to figure out what this all means, you know, the Picard.

1435
01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:53.099
Yeah, I don't want to spoil it, but I think that's the most

1436
01:03:53.099 --> 01:03:55.679
interesting thing about it, particularly for an American

1437
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:59.340
television show of this period, for that to be the problem that

1438
01:03:59.340 --> 01:04:01.980
they have to solve is really super interesting, I think.

1439
01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:04.559
So yeah, yeah, I'm really into it.

1440
01:04:04.619 --> 01:04:12.119
I think it, it might be your, your highest appraisal of an next

1441
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:13.800
Genesis Dalmark, I think this one.

1442
01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:16.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so.

1443
01:04:16.380 --> 01:04:18.480
I think that it's up there with Darma.

1444
01:04:18.539 --> 01:04:21.239
I think Darma was so affecting.

1445
01:04:21.300 --> 01:04:24.900
We was talking yesterday, me and Mark Donaldson, and he went, he

1446
01:04:24.900 --> 01:04:25.739
goes, do you know what?

1447
01:04:25.739 --> 01:04:28.380
I think the best, he goes, I don't think it's the best Star Trek

1448
01:04:28.380 --> 01:04:30.179
episode as in an episode of Star Trek.

1449
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:35.099
He goes, but the best episode of Star Trek, as in it, it works to

1450
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:36.480
all the Star Trek ideals.

1451
01:04:36.539 --> 01:04:38.039
And I said, go on.

1452
01:04:38.099 --> 01:04:39.000
He went dharmok.

1453
01:04:39.059 --> 01:04:41.039
I was like, yeah, you're probably right, yeah.

1454
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:41.820
With the cent?

1455
01:04:41.940 --> 01:04:44.400
And they're like, I think I tear up in our episode when I just

1456
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:45.059
sort of say that.

1457
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:48.360
Yeah, it's like he gives his life.

1458
01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:52.199
Nathan gives his life in order to make that connection in order to

1459
01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:54.420
in order to find a way of communicating.

1460
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:58.440
And I just thought that was so beautiful and and just the

1461
01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:04.019
storytelling, like the thing that they connect with isn't the dumb

1462
01:05:04.019 --> 01:05:08.159
metaphors thing or whatever, it's that they tell stories, you know

1463
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:12.659
and when he's there telling the story of Gilgamesh, which is an

1464
01:05:12.659 --> 01:05:18.179
unusual choice, and just, like, and he dies as Picard is, as

1465
01:05:18.179 --> 01:05:20.280
giving Gilgamesh's speech is so good.

1466
01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:21.300
So good.

1467
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:22.320
Just really good.

1468
01:05:22.559 --> 01:05:27.719
I know when you're deeply moved because your voice breaks almost

1469
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:32.820
imperceptibly, but I notice you, it happened the other day in an

1470
01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:33.059
episode.

1471
01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:34.019
You did, actually.

1472
01:05:34.019 --> 01:05:38.940
When you were talking, you were talking about Cisco realising that

1473
01:05:38.940 --> 01:05:43.019
his son is a brilliant and much better.

1474
01:05:43.019 --> 01:05:46.980
And your voice breaks just for a second, you know.

1475
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.519
I think this sort of thing somebody only notices when they spend a

1476
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:51.539
lot of time with you, you know.

1477
01:05:53.219 --> 01:05:57.000
Well, I think those moments are gorgeous in podcasts, you know

1478
01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:59.460
when you hear real emotion in people's voices.

1479
01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:03.480
Yeah, well, I mean, this is a dumb genre show. you know what I

1480
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:03.599
mean?

1481
01:06:03.659 --> 01:06:05.699
We spend a lot of time making fun of it and it deserves it.

1482
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:10.380
But, you know, like it is sometimes really properly affecting, I

1483
01:06:10.380 --> 01:06:10.619
think.

1484
01:06:11.219 --> 01:06:12.599
Yeah.

1485
01:06:12.659 --> 01:06:13.800
And that's great.

1486
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:15.360
No, not often.

1487
01:06:15.420 --> 01:06:18.780
But like sometimes it's thrilling and funny and ridiculous and

1488
01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:19.380
wonderful.

1489
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:23.880
Like, you know, like we've been talking about it for hours and

1490
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:27.480
hours and hours.

1491
01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:29.579
We get to hang out.

1492
01:06:29.579 --> 01:06:30.960
You can't press while, remember?

1493
01:06:31.019 --> 01:06:31.860
Okay, that's true.

1494
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:33.059
That is true.