WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:49:36

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we're back in the 1960s, and it's an episode of Star Trek, the original series from the 3rd season.

3
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It's season three, episode 20, The Way to Eden.

4
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What gave away the fact that we were in the 60s watching the way Sweden?

5
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I thought I would mention that that straight up.

6
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This is one that is very widely disliked.

7
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I think jammer gives it no stars.

8
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Everyone kind of really hates it.

9
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I have to say that I don't think it's the worst episode of series 3 that we've done.

10
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It might be the 3rd worst because I do think whom gods destroy and Spock's brain are both worse than this.

11
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But there is something really unpleasant about it, which I will get into, I think, as we go along.

12
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You didn't have fun.

13
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No, and it was one of the 1st times ever, I considered not rewatch, because we was going to do this last week, and then I thought, well, I should rewatch it for this, and I had to actively force myself to sit in front of the TV this morning and press play again.

14
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I think the 2nd time around, I liked it even less because I knew what was coming this time, you know?

15
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So there was no surprises whatsoever.

16
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It's just even by TOS standards, this is slow.

17
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Like really slow, devoid of incident for the most part, lots of tedious conversations, horrible songs. like we did.

18
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His way recently, which was packed full of the most gorgeous songs.

19
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I mean, this is the 60s.

20
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They knew how to sing back then.

21
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What is happening, Nathan?

22
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Well, I'm going to talk about the songs and why I don't think they're quite as bad as you think they are.

23
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But they are still quite bad, obviously.

24
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This is an episode that I feel like we've done already, and one of the reasons that I can't hate this is because it has a functional plot where things happen, and it's an episode that's about something in a way that neither Spock's brain, nor whom Gods destroy manage.

25
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Not about something very nice though, is it?

26
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It's about anything very pleasant.

27
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No, no, I think it's quite nasty in all sorts of ways, but it is doing something.

28
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And what I think it's like is an episode of enterprise from series 3 chosen realm.

29
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Oh, you're going to have to remind me of what that was.

30
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So in that, enterprise is taken over by a group of people who demand to be taken to a particular planet, which has religious significance for them.

31
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I think it might be the planet they were from or the planet that they were promised by the Sphere Builders or something like that.

32
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We examine their motivations and stuff.

33
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There's some sort of, you know, there's some conflict among them, but we examine their motivations and stuff and then we take them to the planet and it ends up being a disaster that tells us something about their desire to reach the planet in the 1st place.

34
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And it seems to me that the writers of chosen realm could well have been literally inspired by this episode because it is so very similar.

35
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But I do seem to recall that we found the antagonist in Chosen Realm because of the performance really quite interesting, quite engaging.

36
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And the 1st half of the episode, it was doing that sort of equinox thing of these people are pretending for a while to be, you know, oh, hi.

37
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Yeah, but it's a bit more blatant.

38
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I saw a new, very early on what was happening in this episode and it takes the Enterprise queue.

39
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A little while to figure out what's occurring.

40
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Whereas in Chosen Realm.

41
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That's only about 10 minutes in when he finally, you know, decides to blow up the Enterprise or whatever he does to make his move.

42
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I do think that was a better episode.

43
00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:30.300
And certainly in terms of visual interest, it was a better episode.

44
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Oh, yeah, yeah.

45
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It's a better episode in all sorts of ways.

46
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But there was something facile.

47
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I thought about the way that it dealt with their motivation.

48
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You know, they're just religious maniacs and that's how religious maniacs might be expected to behave.

49
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And coming so soon after 9-11.

50
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I guess it wasn't the time for Americans to be introspective about their position in the world or the history of their interventions in the Middle East or whatever.

51
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But this, as well, I think, presents a caricature of a group of people and doesn't properly examine their motivations.

52
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And in fact, is astoundingly nasty.

53
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So I think it's a functional bit of drama.

54
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I think it actually does some things, there's reversals.

55
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It has those beats that chosen realm has.

56
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But dismissive of the concerns of young people, and it caricatures them.

57
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And a lot of what we don't like about it is how dopey the young people are.

58
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And that's because this episode goes out of its way to make them seem dopey, you know.

59
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One example I can think of is the slang, you know, the way that they talk.

60
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I think the slang is quite well done, because we understand what they mean, and it does sound kind of like the slang that kids used in the 60s and early 70s without being that.

61
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And it reminded me more than anything of, you know, those jokes that they would have on the, Brady Bunch about how Mike and Carol couldn't understand what the kids were saying these days.

62
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So it seems to me to be really reactionary and dismissive in a way that I think is extremely nasty and unpleasant.

63
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And that's, I think, at the root of the problem with the episode.

64
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It's also very boring as well.

65
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Just very dull.

66
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There's very little entertainment value here.

67
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There's a fine line though, isn't it, between being very well done sort of slang and utter cringe.

68
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And I feel as if this... slingshots between the 2 on a regular basis.

69
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Also, what the hell do these writers in the 60s have against the hippies?

70
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There's a Doctor Who story called The Dominators, which does exactly the same thing as this.

71
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It's like the reactionary young people of the time are so stupid that they all deserve to be dead, you know, which is the conclusion that this, you know, at the end of the story, they're so stupid.

72
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They go down to this planet and start eating poison fruit without even thinking about the fact that it might be lethal.

73
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Yeah.

74
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So what's everyone got against the hippies?

75
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And remember what they had to protest about?

76
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So this is taking place in 1969, you know, Nixon is president, but America has been in Vietnam for much longer than that, and dropping like 1000000s of tons of explosives on Laos, and, you know, like being incredibly dreadful.

77
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Like the, and the young people who protested with their protest songs and their sit ins and all of the things that these kids do on board the Enterprise, those kids were right.

78
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You know, they had Vietnam.

79
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They had the civil rights movement.

80
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Those kids were on the right side of history, and so to have an episode of Star Trek saying, aren't kids stupid with all their protest songs and all of their sit ins, and aren't they arrogant and privileged and kind of disgusting?

81
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Nurse Chappell refers to them as animals at some point.

82
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Like, it's so brutal, and then it decides to kill them or to kill 2 of them at the end.

83
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It's it's shockingly bad.

84
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They basically go, don't they?

85
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Oh, well, never mind.

86
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Let's go. yeah Yeah.

87
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And, and, and, you know, there's Dr. Severn, who is clearly just sort of Timothy Leary, who, you know, is a psychologist at Harvard, who, who, um, advocates using hallucinogenic drugs, who's described by Nixon as the most dangerous man in America.

88
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And this, there's an, I don't want to go into it in too much detail because we've got to talk about it and it is very slow.

89
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We've got, you know, 50 minutes to feel.

90
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But, you know, he's just insane and that's the description he's just dismissed.

91
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Doctor Severin is insane.

92
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And so he's got nothing valid to tell anyone.

93
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And there's just all of these sort of indications that these kids are a threat to galactic peace.

94
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You know, the fact that we're heading into the neutral zone, kind of makes them by association communists.

95
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You know, we had balance of terror where the Romulans are positioned.

96
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Does the USSR?

97
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We're heading off to see the Romulans. kind of people, these hippies, aren't they?

98
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It's really bad.

99
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Like, I think that that's really bad.

100
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And I think I think otherwise, in a way, it's a functional piece of drama in the way that chosen realm is, but there's a real incredible kind of depth of nastiness to it, which I think makes it sort of unforgivably bad.

101
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But I also want to give the world sort of slowest hand clap, I could possibly give, because, you know, if they want to make these kids, you know, hideously unlikeable and pricks, and utterly arrogant and loathsome to watch. congratulations because they're all just terrible.

102
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I just hated all of these guest characters this week.

103
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And so, you know, to say, well, yes, well, they were supposed to be annoying.

104
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Well, thank you very much.

105
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You've made me hang out with annoying people for 40 minutes.

106
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That's not an enjoyable television experience, even if you have a point to make.

107
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Well, and but it's a bad point.

108
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And the episode was so determined to make me hate them that I refused to do that.

109
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And so there were moments where I thought I was determined to find them quite sweet and I managed it in places.

110
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I wish I was you, honestly.

111
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I mean, they could have eaten those poison apples in the 2nd scene and I would have been happy.

112
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Well, look, you know, you've got Eden behind you there.

113
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Fabulous mountainous vista.

114
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Should we head there now?

115
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I think we should.

116
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We didn't even get into the religious stuff, did we?

117
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We'll get there.

118
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We'll get there All right.

119
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I'll count us in. 5, 4, 2, one, and we're off.

120
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Now, this ship, we're watching the new version with the new special effects, and so that's not the ship from the original story.

121
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Originally, what they did was they took a Tholian ship, you know, one of those triangle ones and put a couple of Nasselles on it and said, all right, that's the ship that's been stolen.

122
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So they're just...

123
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Are they running out of money at this point?

124
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I think they just could be.

125
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Just had a few pipe cleaners sort of models we've already got.

126
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We'll be all right.

127
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Yeah exactly.

128
00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:28.080
I mean, to be fair, do you look like that, though, because that was a really terrible bit of CGI.

129
00:11:28.139 --> 00:11:30.240
Yeah, no, it didn't look like that.

130
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Like I said, it looked like a wedge shaped folian ship.

131
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I actually quite like it.

132
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I think it's sort of fairly sympathetic to the design. you know, aesthetic that they have.

133
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It looks very 60s and a bit crummy, which I think is actually pretty good.

134
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Oh boy, wait till we get to talking about Chekhov in this episode as well.

135
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I really mischaracterize him in this, don't they?

136
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Yeah, yeah.

137
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Yeah.

138
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Yeah.

139
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So, so, I mean, again, this is pretty great, and I don't know if this is the 1st time it happens where we see the explosion, but we don't know if the people have been beamed off.

140
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And that's the correct Star Trek order in which to do these.

141
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The only one be the last time. right.

142
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A shuttle explodes.

143
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Then we discover that they've been beamed off successfully.

144
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It never happens the other way.

145
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The amount of actors we've seen with a panic look on their face. you get them?

146
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Did you get them?

147
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That's basically all of 90s track, isn't it?

148
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That's it.

149
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That's it.

150
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I mean, even now, can I just very quickly say, because people may not have listened to our last episode, but I do have borrowed hatred for the way to Eden, because back in the day, when I was a huge TNG fan and lover of Wesley Crusher, you know, age 13, I did ask for a VHS for Christmas, and I unwrapped it because the present was clearly a VHS.

151
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It was the right shape.

152
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You give it a little shape, you could hear the plastic rattling inside.

153
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My god, it must be lonelier among us and justice or something amazing like that.

154
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And I tore open the paper and fuck me, it was TOS, the way to Eden, and whatever was on that, and I burst into tears.

155
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Well, I did force myself to watch it, right?

156
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And I never, ever watched it again.

157
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I was like, what is this fucking shit?

158
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And so now when the hippies beam in.

159
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I just automatically 13 again going, where's Wesley Crusher?

160
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So immediately, immediately Scotty says, oh, and there are nice lot too.

161
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And everyone's response to them is so disgracefully over the top.

162
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You know, it's like it's, they're so, um, they're so conservative and so backward.

163
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It's so awful.

164
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You know, like, like they're out here meeting alien cultures and stuff and forging relationships with people utterly unlike them.

165
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But, you know, give someone a midrift top and a sort of fancy fan.

166
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Even the aesthetics, even the, they've given ridiculous clothes.

167
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Someone's got a stupid purple wig on their head.

168
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One of them's got an enormous prosthetic ear for some reason.

169
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Like they all just look stupid.

170
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Yeah, they go really stupid.

171
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Again, though, like Irina doesn't look stupid and there's girl one and girl two.

172
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Please don't tell me that's a name in the cast list.

173
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Is it really their name?

174
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Girl, what a girl too.

175
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Right.

176
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From heads forth, they can only be referred to as that when they're on screen, okay?

177
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Is their official names?

178
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It's their official name.

179
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It's it's pretty bad.

180
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And of course, you know, the hippie movement was just as sexist as everyone else.

181
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So I guess that's sort of fair enough.

182
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Why are they sort of holding their hands in that sort of triangular fashion?

183
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So that's the one, you know, they and and this is the one thing, right?

184
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This is the one thing.

185
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So they're doing a city.

186
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Look, they're doing a sit in. and this is the poor behaviour.

187
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They're sitting, they're refusing to be moved.

188
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And that's what university students would do.

189
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People would occupy offices.

190
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It was a form of protest.

191
00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:14.039
Are they reject are they rejecting being saved then?

192
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What are they complaining about?

193
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Yeah, yeah, but they're not, I don't know.

194
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I don't know. like they're not going to cooperate.

195
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They've just got to be immediately seem to being rebellious.

196
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Well, they were being chased.

197
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You know, they stole a thing.

198
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They've been caught.

199
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It's like being caught by the cops and so they're not going to cooperate.

200
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Oh actually, no, you're right.

201
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Irina does look quite sexy, doesn't she?

202
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Yeah, I think that's actually quite a good outfit.

203
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And what's going on with the fellow with the purple eyebrows, though?

204
00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:49.500
So he's a Catullan, and he just looks like a gay Klingon to me.

205
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Do you know what I mean?

206
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Did you notice?

207
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He's sort of got a petticoat on as well under his costume. yeah conforming.

208
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So again, disgusting for that reason.

209
00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:02.639
And they've got sort of flowery tattoos on their arms as well.

210
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It's very clear what's going on here, isn't it, visually?

211
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Yeah, yeah.

212
00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:22.019
And so and so the hippies are not sort of proper grown-ups and the grown-ups are doing politics and stuff and they're imperilling that. and they're threatening the peace between the Romulans and the Federation as well. that comes later.

213
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.460
Obviously.

214
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.500
Chehov's quite young, isn't he?

215
00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.019
He's the youngest guy, certainly of the bridge crew.

216
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:36.720
So surely this would be much more interesting if he was sympathetic with the hippies rather than he's the complete reverse, isn't he, actually, which is very strange.

217
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:42.899
In fact, there's a moment where Sulu is a bit sympathetic to them, which is a thing.

218
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:55.139
But the one thing, the one redeeming feature this episode has is Spock, because Spock actually, and Spock is right generally.

219
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:55.980
Do you know what I mean?

220
00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:09.480
If there's an argument between him and anyone else, Spock is in the right, generally speaking, and Spock is open-minded and thoughtful, and he is the one who is sympathetic to them.

221
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:16.200
And there's a moment which I think is actually really very sweet at the end where he says, I want you to continue looking for Eden.

222
00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:17.519
He says it to Irina.

223
00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:22.859
I want you to continue looking for Eden, and I have no doubt that you will be able to make your own if you can't find it.

224
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.299
And I thought that was really properly positive in an episode that's generally nasty to these people.

225
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:31.380
It should have said some, take this tricorder and just scan the fruit, though.

226
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.299
All right, when you get there.

227
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:34.920
I like that.

228
00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:43.920
And there was a bit later on when they're singing one of their interminable songs where Spot grabs his Vulcan instrument, you know, and sort of goes in there and joins them.

229
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:46.859
I think he's thinking, look, I can only make this better.

230
00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:48.779
I can't make it worse, you know?

231
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:50.519
But yeah, you're right.

232
00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:53.460
He is very welcoming and he's trying to understand them.

233
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.900
Yeah, because he's an outsider as well and he even makes that point, doesn't he?

234
00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:08.819
He says something later about how these people regard themselves as sort of aliens, you know, that they don't belong somewhere and he feels the same thing.

235
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.579
And I think that that's the one redeeming feature.

236
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:26.039
I think, you know, the episode lands on the fact that these people will murder you if they get the chance and they're terrible people, but Spock's sympathy for them does weigh in on the other column, I think.

237
00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:30.059
Do you know, I've been wanting to say this to you for a long time, Nathan.

238
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:34.380
And now, given we're in this episode with this slang, I finally have the opportunity to do it.

239
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.799
Oh, no, you are stiff.

240
00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:41.880
I thought it was very now.

241
00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:46.680
Oh, you're very now. especially when you're stiff.

242
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.400
Hang on.

243
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:48.180
Move us on.

244
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.859
All that dialogue's dreadful.

245
00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:53.400
Sorry.

246
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.819
I actually think I actually think it's good.

247
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.059
Because in the way that in what they're trying to do.

248
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:00.599
Yes.

249
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:01.680
I get it.

250
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.599
And they're trying to give them an identity with language.

251
00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:04.619
I absolutely get it.

252
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:06.420
But it's just so embarrassing.

253
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.119
But that's the, but that is kind of the point.

254
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.700
Like, that's the episode succeeding on its own terms.

255
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:17.339
It wants the children to look to be, you know, children talk weird.

256
00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:20.039
And remember these are university students.

257
00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:20.880
Do you know what I mean?

258
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.799
These are smart people who all have degrees.

259
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:24.779
Arena was at Starfleet Academy.

260
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:32.400
The term dropped out, Chekhov just described Arena as having dropped out of Starfleet Academy.

261
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:42.420
Like that's a very loaded term, you know, um, So, you know, these are sort of middle class kids from university and stuff.

262
00:19:42.779 --> 00:19:43.920
I dont know where I was going with that.

263
00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:46.799
I don't think Kerk makes sense in this episode either.

264
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:53.339
Because even though he has absolutely been, you know, revealed over 3 seasons to be a Starfleet man through and through.

265
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.259
He's sort of relaxed.

266
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:56.519
He's quite a loose bloke.

267
00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:59.940
And we've said it many times in episodes like, yeah, do you know what?

268
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.680
He gets on board with people that come on.

269
00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:04.680
So the fact that he is so baffled by them in this.

270
00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:08.579
I was like, have they just forgotten how to ride these characters?

271
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:20.400
They come across as really nasty because they're being put in the position of of hating the young people of the 1960s, you know, and so they just seem stupid.

272
00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:32.700
There's one moment where I think Kirk is slightly redeemed where he says to Scotty, I don't know when I was a kid, when I was their age, I got in a fair amount of trouble, didn't you?

273
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:42.539
And so there is a moment where he has some sympathy for them as kids, which I thought was pretty good, but this stuff where we're sort of disgusted by them.

274
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.079
No, go on.

275
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:47.819
Well, I think I put my finger on it then.

276
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.299
I think my issue with this character, I don't like anyone in this episode.

277
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:56.880
They're all stuck up and horrible to their guests and the others are irritatingly reactionary.

278
00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:58.859
So I'm just not enjoying being around anyone.

279
00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:00.839
No, no, no, that's right.

280
00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:02.940
No, you are, yeah, you're right.

281
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:07.319
Like, it is succeeding on its own terms, but that doesn't stop it being an annoying bit of telly.

282
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:08.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

283
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.099
I have to say that I watched it 3 times.

284
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.839
By the 3rd time.

285
00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:21.420
I think I was probably a bit taken in by it because we have had Star Trek episodes, original series episodes where like nothing happens.

286
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:27.420
And all I could think of was how superior this was to whom gods destroy, which is not a huge achievement.

287
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:33.240
Um, but, and it's kind of less stupid than...

288
00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:37.740
If the couple on the hippies were put on rocks and forced to explode, it might have helped.

289
00:21:37.859 --> 00:21:38.579
Yeah, yeah.

290
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:46.019
No, I mean, there is a lot of sort of claptrap in Star Trek. and sometimes Star Trek, you know, sometimes original Star Trek is brilliant.

291
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.380
Sometimes it just fails even to be sort of a competent TV.

292
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.839
I don't think this fails to be competent TV.

293
00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:56.460
I think it is slow, but I don't dislike the music.

294
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.400
Some of the music numbers I'm actually happy, maps not this one.

295
00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:05.339
Um, but, um, uh, you know, things happen in it.

296
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:09.720
I think it's it's being a Star Trek episode in a sort of successful way, I think.

297
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:13.259
I just, I can't remember any of the songs of this.

298
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:24.059
I don't want to remember any of the songs on this because whilst I were like playing out, I wasn't having a good time, you know, I kept looking at this fella, Adam, and I was going, I recognise you from somewhere.

299
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.500
Where have I seen you before?

300
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:31.200
and bugger me if he isn't the cigar chomping general from little green men.

301
00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:32.759
A completely different performers.

302
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:38.279
And interestingly, there's a great quote on memory alpha where apparently for the 30th anniversary.

303
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:41.819
They were determined to get that actor back because he was in the way to Eden.

304
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.099
It's like, I have one more remember him.

305
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.539
I mean, you're not going to forget him.

306
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.440
Oh, you look him.

307
00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:51.900
And he said, I'll do it, but please put me in less ridiculous clothes this time.

308
00:22:53.160 --> 00:23:01.019
There is something where he, he sort of, they comment on the fact that Chekhov is wearing a lot of clothes.

309
00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.859
I actually, I actually quite like...

310
00:23:04.859 --> 00:23:08.579
Lucky, sexy sort of thigh height boots as well he's got on.

311
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.700
I mean, I don't mind seeing a flash of chess. quite nice.

312
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:16.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

313
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:20.099
I mean, I think there's something kind of sweet about Adam.

314
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:21.960
He looks too old.

315
00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:25.980
Like if he'd been a little bit more, you know, kind of convincingly young.

316
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:27.839
I don't know how old the actor is at this point.

317
00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:29.640
No, struggle.

318
00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:31.980
She just walks in and soighed straight away.

319
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:38.339
Well, she actually says, I thought the animals were all meant to be in cages, which one.

320
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:41.220
No, animals are not meant to be in cages.

321
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:42.299
Why are you saying that?

322
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.759
Like, 16, remember, to say?

323
00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:46.140
The less progressive times.

324
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:50.099
Yeah, and and why are these people animals?

325
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.500
Why are you referring to people like that?

326
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.059
Because they're not conforming.

327
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:54.779
That's why.

328
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:56.220
Yeah, that's right.

329
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:57.420
Yeah.

330
00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.180
I reckon the new Nurse Chappel would never say that.

331
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.380
They shouldn't be.

332
00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:03.240
They shouldn't be happy and sing songs.

333
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:05.640
They should be miserable as the rest of the enterprise crew.

334
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:07.619
Yeah, but that's the other thing.

335
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:08.400
Do you know what I mean?

336
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:11.220
Like, in a way, so this, how could you do this?

337
00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:13.799
She hasn't had a tattoo.

338
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:16.259
She doesn't have any facial piercings.

339
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:20.640
She's got a lovely 60s hairstyle and her midriff is showing.

340
00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:23.099
Like, what is going on?

341
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.480
Why is he reacting like that?

342
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:24.900
This?

343
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.039
He just seems like a prick.

344
00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:29.640
Oh, she's doing is sitting on the floor and singing dreadful songs.

345
00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:31.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

346
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:35.039
Like, I just, like, I just think that's awful.

347
00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:36.539
Everyone reacts so badly.

348
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:46.140
And in fact, the last scene between these two, I think, is wonderful and she's quite charming in that final scene where they say goodbye to one another.

349
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:47.940
She's hampered by the accent.

350
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:56.339
And then, of course, there's that terrible scene later on where she's clearly just kind of getting information out of him and he doesn't realise it because he's stupid this week.

351
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:57.660
Look at this.

352
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.359
This fucking tall guy comes in and just looks at her.

353
00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:01.500
Like, it's like, what?

354
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.839
Well, she has got her midriff showing.

355
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:04.680
Come on, now.

356
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:08.700
We know how loose they are, sexually speaking, on the enterprise.

357
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.920
She's hampered by her dialogue as well, though.

358
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:13.619
She just said, we should meet together again.

359
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.220
Enjoy.

360
00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:16.440
Like, please, who talks like that?

361
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:24.539
Well, hippies, she just looked, she looked off camera in a dreamy way and she goes, I remember the times we had together.

362
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:25.079
Oh, please.

363
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:26.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

364
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:26.940
Yeah.

365
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:27.599
Yeah.

366
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.380
In fact, there's one thing which I think is actually kind of sweet.

367
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:32.519
Here.

368
00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:34.440
Like, I dislike the Chekhov thing.

369
00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:40.440
But I get the idea that he, and it's not very well drawn. you know what I mean?

370
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:44.700
But this stuff where he says you don't love the way that I do.

371
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:46.980
I really felt something and you didn't.

372
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.799
You are always somewhere else in our relationship.

373
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:50.940
And I like that stuff.

374
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.440
He's a little bit hurt, you know.

375
00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:55.259
I think that's kind of sweet and that's young people.

376
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.319
They're weird and annoying, you know, like in a kind of cute way.

377
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:00.839
Why did you leave me, arena?

378
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.940
Because you disapproved of me, all right?

379
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.440
I'm not sticking around.

380
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:06.960
But I think that's lovely.

381
00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:08.579
Like, I think there's something about that.

382
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.400
You know, like you disapproved of me.

383
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.039
And she's right about all of these things.

384
00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:18.720
If this is how Chekhov is, and it isn't how it is.

385
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:19.980
This is completely wrong.

386
00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:29.279
Chekhov was brought into be that sort of little rebel on the enterprise, you know, and say the awkward things and get them into bar fights into trouble and triples and all of that stuff.

387
00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:31.500
It's so weird.

388
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.359
It's so weird seeing him.

389
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:34.500
This stuck up.

390
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.339
Although if you squint, you know, you could see Paul McCartney in Star Trek for a second.

391
00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:40.259
Yeah, that, yeah.

392
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.059
He's wearing a lot of eyeliner as well.

393
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.240
So I don't know why. fracas occur in here.

394
00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:50.759
Yeah, an end of, we're just leading into the commercial break with this fracas here.

395
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.440
No, there's chapels there pushing them back.

396
00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:57.359
Get the animals in a cage quick.

397
00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:01.440
What is that ear?

398
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:03.000
Will you please tell me what that is?

399
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:04.380
I'm also kept in cages.

400
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.000
Why are you saying that, Christine?

401
00:27:06.059 --> 00:27:07.140
For fuck's sake.

402
00:27:08.099 --> 00:27:17.339
So, again, so this is kind of interesting and it leads to an interesting thing, which is something that, you know, because it's still early days.

403
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:23.700
I know it's near the end of the run of the original series, but it's early days for Star Trek as a whole.

404
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:36.539
And the idea that there's something toxic about the environment that they've created for themselves and that there are people who rebel against it because they can't live in this sort of managed environment.

405
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:41.940
And here you have McCoy saying that, and you also have Spock saying it.

406
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.099
You know, Spock says that we've created this entire artificial world for ourselves.

407
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.519
Atmosphere is controlled, all of that sort of stuff.

408
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:51.420
We get that from Spock.

409
00:27:51.480 --> 00:28:02.940
Here we get it from McCoy, where where he says that this guy has been infected by a pathogen as a result of the artificial situation that he lives in.

410
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:09.720
You know, like that's kind of weird and interesting, but the episode doesn't go anywhere with it.

411
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:12.480
You know, they're not justified.

412
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:16.619
You know, we never sort of say, well, actually, it's fair enough.

413
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:22.740
You know, maybe if this is the case, maybe they have a point, you know, but no one ever says that.

414
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:28.859
So not only are they reactionary and irritating, they're also diseased as well.

415
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.960
Well, yeah, there's that too.

416
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:32.279
And that's the other thing too.

417
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:33.839
And particularly him.

418
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.660
And that's, that's...

419
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:37.500
Free love.

420
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.380
Yeah, he's not a child.

421
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.039
Do you know what I mean?

422
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.240
Severin isn't a kid.

423
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:51.539
He's a, he's a, you know, an academic, he's an expert in acoustics, which I just think is hilarious because he's got those massive ears.

424
00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:55.259
It's a little bit later on where Spock is affected by the sound.

425
00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:56.880
Oh, he's got the ear.

426
00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:09.000
But later on, Spock reacts more badly to the ultrasonics or the infrasonics or whatever it is that causes them pain because he has big ears as well.

427
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:10.619
So he must be...

428
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:11.579
These the bit you were talking about.

429
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:13.200
This must have entirely slipped me by.

430
00:29:13.259 --> 00:29:17.039
She goes, come on. you know you've won it. and he goes, oh, it is tempting.

431
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:22.500
And then Carlo steps in and goes, no, you'd be a good Starfleet officer.

432
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:23.400
Apologise or something.

433
00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:25.799
Yeah, he sort of stiffens up, doesn't he?

434
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:27.180
Get that bug up your butt.

435
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:28.680
Yeah, yeah.

436
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:30.000
So that was gold too.

437
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.819
God, these fucking kids sitting around the place.

438
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:34.559
Oh, here comes another song.

439
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:35.400
Marvellous.

440
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.880
Yeah, but again, it's a protest song, isn't it?

441
00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:40.200
Like, it's a protest song.

442
00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:42.059
It goes for like 3 lines.

443
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:46.200
It goes to the 3 lines. his hand gone or wag his tail.

444
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:47.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

445
00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:50.279
Like, it's a proper protest song. works really well.

446
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:52.140
It ain't a good reasonable.

447
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:54.660
No, but it's 3 lines long.

448
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.720
And we're presuming that he's just extemporising it.

449
00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:00.539
If only they were all free lines long, though, you know?

450
00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:06.240
I think I could improvise a song about you right now that we've better than any of these.

451
00:30:06.539 --> 00:30:20.400
So here there, um, Scotty says that they're trying to incite his team, his crew to disaffect.

452
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:24.240
And Spock tells Severin that incitement to disaffection is criminal.

453
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.519
And I'm kind of going, like, what the hell is happening here?

454
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:28.619
We have court crime now in the Federation.

455
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.660
Did you see the captain's log day, you know?

456
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.180
The arrogance of Dr. Severance.

457
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.000
It's creating an insufferable situation.

458
00:30:36.059 --> 00:30:37.319
Bless you.

459
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:38.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

460
00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:40.440
Oh, poor Captain Kirk, you know, what a day.

461
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.559
They're sitting around on the floor and everything.

462
00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:50.279
And I may have to break Starfleet's rules and mistreat them is what he's saying in that captain's log.

463
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:51.000
It's really bad.

464
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:53.460
No way, is he going to mistreat them?

465
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:58.500
Well, he says I'm not going to treat them with a sort of tolerance that I'm required to treat them with.

466
00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:00.359
You know, it's just like, why is he saying that?

467
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:05.700
They're kids with, you know, playing annoying music and sitting around and calling him her, but like just man up.

468
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.539
The rise of this episode is happening. really hates the hippies, doesn't he?

469
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.279
Yeah, it hates the kids.

470
00:31:11.339 --> 00:31:12.779
That's what it hates.

471
00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:15.900
Well, it was originally a DC Fontana script, this.

472
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.359
She was going to take it on and it was called Jo Ad.

473
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:25.680
It was about something completely different about Dr. McCoy and one of his ex-loves, you know, one of his many... his daughter.

474
00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:26.759
Oh, yeah, yeah.

475
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.099
And in the end, it was so rewritten.

476
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.539
She said, take my name off this and I'm...

477
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

478
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.299
Well, I don't think there's much of her left in this.

479
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:37.319
No.

480
00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:43.380
But, you know, it's possible the reason it functions is because she had some, so I don't know.

481
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.880
Who knows how much is left?

482
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.119
I will say this man, Dr. Sefford.

483
00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:49.500
He is given a bit of welly, you know?

484
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:50.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

485
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.579
I think it's a reasonable performance and like he's not a hippie, you know, like he...

486
00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:01.500
And this thing that he says is what Spock was saying earlier.

487
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:05.640
You know, the stuff you live in the stuff you breathe, all of this sort of stuff.

488
00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:06.779
This is poison to me.

489
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:07.980
It's infected me.

490
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:08.940
He's right.

491
00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:11.460
Like he's making a sound point.

492
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:18.539
And all of the things that he's saying are reasonable, and then Spot goes straight back to the bridge and says he's insane.

493
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:23.460
So even Spock, even Spock is guilty.

494
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:28.140
No, because he looks up his records and apparently he's insane.

495
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:33.900
And remember whom God's destroyed didn't have any real sense of what mental illness was.

496
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:39.839
It was just mad, mad, mad, and so he's not insane in any particular way.

497
00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:40.859
There's no word for it.

498
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:41.579
He's insane.

499
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.460
And so he's going to lead them to do the wrong thing.

500
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:54.720
So the political point that he seems to be making now, which is a reasonable position to take, even though, you know, like Spock is making some inroads here.

501
00:32:54.779 --> 00:33:05.339
You know, and Spock is saying sensible things, but this is a proper conversation about 2 different viewpoints, but no, he's mad, and therefore, he's a bad guy.

502
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.339
Well, trouble is at the end, he kind of proves that, doesn't he?

503
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:15.779
When he just runs out the shuttle, realises that the fruit's killing people and goes right, well, I'm going to sacrifice myself because here I am on Eden.

504
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.759
No, it doesn't even seem to be that.

505
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:21.480
He just seems to be acting that way because they need him dead at the end of the episode, I think.

506
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:26.400
Yeah, do you know, it is hard to take him seriously, though, with that grotesque ear.

507
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:28.380
I'm sorry. is so bad.

508
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.200
Is he supposed to be biology?

509
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:34.380
Or is that like an artificial where he's put on?

510
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:35.819
Yeah, he's put latex on.

511
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:39.059
That's what he's, yeah, his culture.

512
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:40.559
They wear big latex ears.

513
00:33:40.619 --> 00:33:42.240
They like the Ferengi.

514
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.059
Doctor Severin is insane.

515
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.259
Yeah.

516
00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:48.299
Yeah, Dr. Seven's insane.

517
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:49.980
It's just like, where did that fucking come from?

518
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.079
Like, why have we got that twist now?

519
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:55.259
And he goes, I'll have bones check him out.

520
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:56.160
What, for insanity?

521
00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:03.240
He'll be lying on his back pushing, pushing those boxes from his legs.

522
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.119
Only an insane man would do it that way.

523
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:09.599
Actually, that looks quite relaxing, you know, when they get people to do that.

524
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.340
I'm not going to be good for the back.

525
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.880
But here, look, there's no insanity in what they seek.

526
00:34:14.940 --> 00:34:18.480
He doesn't, you know, he doesn't think the kids are bad.

527
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:25.079
And I think that that's the, like I said, the redeeming feature of the episode is that Spock is on the kid's side.

528
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:29.219
But, okay, what's this, the whole muddy thing about Eden?

529
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:30.840
What is this all about?

530
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:33.960
Because at the end, like the depiction of Eden.

531
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:39.659
I can see it behind you, this sort of lush idyllic land, but it's utterly toxic to people.

532
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:40.440
Yeah, yeah.

533
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:41.820
So what point are they trying to make?

534
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:46.679
Yeah, well, I mean, it's the same as the point in promised, in promised land.

535
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:47.519
Do you know what I mean?

536
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:48.119
Promised land.

537
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:50.400
There is no such place as Eden.

538
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:52.199
Yeah, I think so.

539
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:57.179
Like, so Eden, it seems to be from the way that that Chekhov is describing it.

540
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:01.440
Oh, see, I actually quite like this scene, I have to say.

541
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:04.380
So we're in Smock's quarters.

542
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.739
Adam comes in, asks, am I crossing you?

543
00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:10.139
Spock doesn't go, what do you mean by that?

544
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:11.519
Do you mean, are you annoying me?

545
00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:12.659
He just talks to him.

546
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:27.780
And then Adam shows genuine interest in the instrument and is kind of excited by it and gives it a go, and then he asks Spock to play it and Spock plays it, and like they really kind of, like they connect in a way that I think is actually kind of sweet.

547
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:32.579
And like I said, because the episode is so determined to make me hate the kids.

548
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:52.500
I just don't want to do that And, you know, like, I, like, I liked this, and then the next thing that we hear is that that's him stringing Spock along, that none of this childlike stuff about music and and love and acceptance and stuff is to be taken at face value.

549
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:59.340
Uh, these people are, are evil, um, and all of that stuff is a deception.

550
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:02.159
See, isn't this nice?

551
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:02.940
I think this is quite nice.

552
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:06.059
I don't find his performance likeable in the way you do, though.

553
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:08.340
And the dialogue.

554
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:09.780
Wow, that's now.

555
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.739
That's really now.

556
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:12.960
Oh, shut up.

557
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:15.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

558
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:17.400
Although you are right.

559
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:17.880
So, yeah.

560
00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:25.500
So we've had a moment that appeared to be 2 people connecting with Spock and Sevrin, which was then totally shattered in the next season.

561
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:26.940
This happens again.

562
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:27.420
Yeah.

563
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:28.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

564
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:29.039
Yeah.

565
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:33.179
So it's not like you can really buy into the relationship set, is it?

566
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:43.079
If nobody's really. the same, like, I think there's actually quite a nice bit, like, the bit of music that I quite like is where Spock and Girl one.

567
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:50.760
Um, uh, playing it, he's playing his, whatever it is, he's either and she's playing a bicycle wheel of some kind of thing.

568
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:54.000
Um, and, like, I think that's actually quite nice.

569
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:58.739
And it's, like, them making a connection. girl one.

570
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.320
She's particularly adept with a bicycle wheel.

571
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.420
I like girl one, actually.

572
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:04.980
She might be my favourite dippy.

573
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:09.900
You only get that one on Star Trek popcorn.

574
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.119
Girl one is my favourite hippie.

575
00:37:13.980 --> 00:37:17.940
Oh, check off, will you chill out already?

576
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:37.500
And again, the same thing is happening here, but you see it happening here because it's so ineptly done, where the 2 of them, like, she comes and apologises for calling him stiff and making fun of him, and then she shows some genuine interest in what he's doing, and, you know, they're connecting because he's actually really finding Eden.

577
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:41.159
She doesn't believe him when he says it, that's about to happen.

578
00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:48.659
But then it becomes very clear that she's just pressing him for information and he sort of goes, yes, and here at this at this desk.

579
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:58.980
I have the access to access to the sum of human knowledge, and I could just fly the ship, even if I had no skills at all and stuff, and she's going, hmm, okay, and storing all that away.

580
00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:01.739
It's just not who he is though.

581
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.099
I just was watching this going, who's right in this?

582
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:08.099
They just haven't got the spec on Chekhov at all.

583
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.699
What's the, what's the better outcome with this episode then?

584
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:16.619
Say we did this episode, but we came to different conclusions about the hippies.

585
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:25.440
Is it that members of the Enterprise crew start to see there is something in this and there's sort of like a shared learning throughout the episode and we leave?

586
00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:27.300
That way?

587
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.019
But I mean, yeah, that's a boring episode though, isn't it?

588
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.420
Like, um, it is a boring episode.

589
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:34.199
It's a drama.

590
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.340
Yeah, it is a boring episode.

591
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:41.820
But, like, I can't imagine the crew of the Enterprise D reacting like that.

592
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.300
No, maybe in series one.

593
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:50.219
If they were taken over by a sex virus, possibly, you know, they'd all be very relaxed by the end of that.

594
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:52.739
Maybe, but, you know.

595
00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:56.219
What was the episode where Dr. McCoy?

596
00:38:56.280 --> 00:39:00.420
Remember when he flooded the whole of the Enterprise with a load of drugs to sort of chill everybody out?

597
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:02.820
I mean, they could have done with that in this, couldn't they?

598
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:04.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

599
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:06.000
Any episode could be improved by that.

600
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:10.500
No, even worse, the hippies have flooded the ships with drugs.

601
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:12.239
They poisoned us to their waves.

602
00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:20.940
You know, I'm quite surprised, you know, she doesn't get the sort of romantic filter that most women get on original strength.

603
00:39:21.059 --> 00:39:24.059
Because she's in the shot with Chekhov, I think, is the problem.

604
00:39:24.179 --> 00:39:26.159
It's so masculine.

605
00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:27.360
You can't use the mist on him.

606
00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:28.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

607
00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:31.559
Oh, that's a horrible kiss, isn't it?

608
00:39:31.619 --> 00:39:32.280
Yeah.

609
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:34.800
We can't even see their lips.

610
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:36.420
We just seen the back of his head.

611
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:42.840
Do you know, I'm actually surprised that we that we see Irina's belly button.

612
00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:46.679
See, we see it all the time.

613
00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:48.239
There was something about that, wasn't there?

614
00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:51.719
you told me that you weren't supposed to know.

615
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:53.280
You weren't supposed to show the belly button.

616
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:54.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

617
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:01.559
And certainly, you know, like Barbara Eden's belly button is never visible even though she's wearing a skimpy outfit in I Dream of Jeanie.

618
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.320
So, yeah, yeah.

619
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:05.039
So here we are.

620
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:25.500
We're all meeting up in the quarters and we're all talking about how we're deceiving the crew, because we are not genuinely like kids who are enthused by, you know, something and who love music and stuff, we are here to take over the ship and we will kill everyone.

621
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:26.280
Do you know what I mean?

622
00:40:26.340 --> 00:40:27.599
Like we can't be trusted.

623
00:40:27.659 --> 00:40:29.159
So it's being said here.

624
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:35.460
It just feels to me that this dialogue has been written by somebody, you know, that serious brain damage.

625
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.460
When will it be soonest?

626
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:39.780
How can we make them swing?

627
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.260
I know the swingest things they...

628
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:44.159
Look at this, though.

629
00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:58.800
So we get them all talking, just go out and be friendly and we'll win the crew over, and then you cut to Severin in his cell smiling because he's satisfied with how devious they're all being, and now they're playing music.

630
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.500
So this is the session that's in the rec room.

631
00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:05.460
And everybody on the Enterprise is German.

632
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:06.780
Enterprise is super into it.

633
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.599
The hot guy who is guarding Severn.

634
00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:11.219
Did you see Hot Guy Guarding?

635
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:11.760
Was he dancing?

636
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:12.539
Was it Dad Dancing?

637
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:13.380
Yeah, you wait.

638
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:18.719
We'll come back to him because little gay Klingon, little What's his face?

639
00:41:18.780 --> 00:41:22.500
Tongo will come in and give him a sort of Catullan neck pinch.

640
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:27.599
Look at that guy in the purple wig with his little drum between his legs.

641
00:41:28.739 --> 00:41:30.119
It's a whole thing.

642
00:41:33.179 --> 00:41:33.960
Oh my god.

643
00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:36.239
I met a man called Nathan.

644
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.239
He was so fucking hot.

645
00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:42.360
I fell in love immediately.

646
00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:44.820
Like, come on now, that's better than this song.

647
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.400
Uh, yeah, maybe.

648
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:50.940
Excuse me, it was very complimentary about you.

649
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:52.800
It was.

650
00:41:52.860 --> 00:41:53.639
I like that part of it.

651
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:57.000
But I think she's got a beautiful voice.

652
00:41:57.059 --> 00:42:02.940
I think the ADR is really terrible, like they're dubbed, so it never looks like he's actually seeing, which is kind of terrible.

653
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.739
And they're sort of dorky and awkward and stuff and particularly by our standards now.

654
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:10.619
But she's got a nice voice.

655
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:23.699
Like when she comes in and starts seeing there's a mild, mild wide emptiness between you and me and she's singing about connection and all of those things that we love about Star Trek, but it's all a ploy because they're seriously, deeply evil.

656
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:29.219
And now here's Spock coming to lend some sort of moral weight to the thing, you know.

657
00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:31.440
Oh, another devious close-up on Severn.

658
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

659
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:37.800
We've got you all dancing now.

660
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:38.760
Yeah, yeah.

661
00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:39.719
Exactly.

662
00:42:40.139 --> 00:42:43.199
We already did that and we did that shot already.

663
00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:43.920
It's so shit.

664
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:47.940
Not the most suspenseful threat we've ever had in Star Trek, is it?

665
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:48.539
No, no.

666
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:49.500
Yeah.

667
00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:55.199
But like, you know, like this is, you know, folk music and stuff.

668
00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:56.400
It's kind of embarrassing.

669
00:42:56.460 --> 00:42:59.099
I know, but you know, I was brought up on 60s music, yeah.

670
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:00.900
I absolutely was brought up.

671
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.900
And it's fantastic.

672
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:08.039
This is shocking me bad compared to the music I would brought up on.

673
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:12.119
Look at the fat guy on the bridge who's getting who's enjoying it.

674
00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:16.920
They should have just, you know, spent a bit of money and got a Helen Shapiro song in or something, you know?

675
00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:19.559
They never...

676
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:20.460
Happiness.

677
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:21.360
Whoop.

678
00:43:21.420 --> 00:43:22.440
Oh, yeah, yeah.

679
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:24.000
Something like that.

680
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:26.820
Do you know what?

681
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:31.320
When you can't even hear the music and you can just see them doing their sort of free love dancing.

682
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:33.059
Oh boy, it's even worse.

683
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:38.039
Oh, I see.

684
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:39.179
She is.

685
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:40.380
She's playing a bicycle.

686
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.199
She's genuinely stringing spoke right there.

687
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:44.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

688
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:50.219
But I think this is kind of cute, and it sounds really good, and like the 2 of them are, you know, into a...

689
00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:51.900
Come on, watch out.

690
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:53.940
The man with the purple wigs coming up.

691
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.340
He's really hard, isn't he?

692
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:57.719
Like, he's super hot.

693
00:43:57.780 --> 00:44:01.079
Unusually for original Star Trek.

694
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:03.659
Super hot, but not particularly observant.

695
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:05.880
No, but that's it.

696
00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:10.860
These kids, you know, they pretend to be normal people.

697
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:21.900
Well, that man on the bridge was just having a little jig, right, to the dreadful song, and Scotty gave him a reproaching look, and he stiffened up immediately and went back to his console.

698
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:24.239
No, everyone's into it.

699
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:25.320
Sulu's into it as well.

700
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:27.239
You know, like everyone's sort of enjoying it.

701
00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:29.340
Ahura's not in this episode.

702
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:30.599
Maybe she was disgusted.

703
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:32.639
Maybe Michelle said, fuck this.

704
00:44:32.699 --> 00:44:34.860
She read the script.

705
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.460
Came down with a bowel of laryngitis.

706
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:42.840
We had Lieutenant Palmer, who is also in the doomsday machine last season.

707
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:44.880
So in the same role, I think.

708
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.039
Oh my god, did you notice that?

709
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:49.199
That bicycle, well, she can spin it as she's going.

710
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:51.780
Multifunction.

711
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:53.039
That's how works.

712
00:44:53.099 --> 00:44:54.719
Do you know what, right?

713
00:44:54.780 --> 00:45:02.340
Given that he's the one that has to creep around the ship, having that purple wig, you know, it's not exactly how easy to hide, is it?

714
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.320
Well, he's an alien, I think.

715
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:09.300
Severan and Tongo are aliens, and then the others are...

716
00:45:09.300 --> 00:45:10.500
He naturally looks like you're saying.

717
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:11.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

718
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:12.719
It's a less league.

719
00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:14.519
Like I said, he's sort of gay Klingon.

720
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:18.900
Okay, so now they're taking over the ship.

721
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:23.639
Um, and he, like, we're heading into Romulan space.

722
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:32.880
And like I said, the Romulans are set up in a way that the Klingons are sometimes, but it's more a Romulan thing, I think, after balance of terror.

723
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:35.460
That's where the, you know, the Cold War is.

724
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:40.440
And they're taking us into Romulan space and they're going to inside an incident.

725
00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:46.619
And I just think the fact that these kids get hold of this starship and head it straight for the USSR.

726
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:48.420
Well, they trying to do that, though.

727
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.599
I thought they were all peace and free love. are they doing this?

728
00:45:51.659 --> 00:46:03.539
Because all of the peace and free love and acceptance is all a ruse, all of the money or all of the music, all of the protest, all of that stuff is hiding, the fact that they are going to kill us and create a galactic incident.

729
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:20.760
That's what I think is so horrible about this, that these kids, and, you know, by extension, the 60s kind of counterculture and stuff, that they are a threat to the stability of the planet, that they are dangerous and they are liars.

730
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:22.920
And I think it's always...

731
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:23.579
Hang on a minute.

732
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:29.400
So these people, they're just like terrible terrorists, yeah, that want to create destruction and awful things.

733
00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:39.420
And in order to do that, to subdue people into thinking they're noise, they go around pretending to be free loving hippies.

734
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:39.780
Yes.

735
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:41.940
But that just annoys everybody.

736
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:49.380
It's not exactly a great ruse, but it didn't, yeah, it did annoy everybody, but the music thing worked, like the the concert worked.

737
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:51.659
Only because they are also fucking stupid.

738
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:54.659
But do you know what I mean?

739
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:56.940
Like, and there were those moments of connection?

740
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:59.880
Like between girl one and Spock and between Spock and Adam?

741
00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:06.300
You know, in between Spock and Severan, you know, but all of that stuff is a lie.

742
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.559
Imagine the marriage.

743
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:10.500
Do you, Spock, take girl one girl?

744
00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:13.380
I'm only assuming she's girl one.

745
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:21.420
I didn't actually look them up, but she gets more to do than girl 2 who just gets a couple of lines of dialogue with Sulu.

746
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.480
What's their motive for causing these incidents?

747
00:47:24.539 --> 00:47:29.159
Well, because they want to go to Eden, like they want the ship to take them to Eden.

748
00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:31.440
And so that's why they stole their.

749
00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:35.699
Unless you take us to paradise, we'll create a diplomatic incident.

750
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:36.780
That would be quite basic.

751
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:43.619
But in fact, they decide that they will kill everyone on board the ship in order to get to Eden.

752
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:46.559
The virus has been mentioned again.

753
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:48.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, isn't it?

754
00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:50.159
It's very confusing.

755
00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:57.239
Well, yeah, again, like the virus doesn't kind of work and doesn't fit into the episode in a way.

756
00:47:57.300 --> 00:47:58.380
Do you know what I mean?

757
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:03.420
Like, and in a way, it supports uh, Severance points about Eden, I don't know.

758
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:07.739
Probably spare our Spork trying to reach out with hippie speak.

759
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:09.960
Adam, I know how to reach you.

760
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:11.760
Oh, yeah, yeah.

761
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:12.840
God of mine.

762
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:13.679
I like this.

763
00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:14.760
Do you know what I mean?

764
00:48:14.820 --> 00:48:17.039
Like, I like that Spock cares about them.

765
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:23.460
And doesn't, you know, like he doesn't dismiss them the way that everyone else does.

766
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.300
You're a very forgiving man, though, from Boston. you know that?

767
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:36.900
Well, like I said, I think this is a horrible episode in all sorts of ways, but not for the reason that most people think it's horrible or many people think it's horrible.

768
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.579
And there are things about it.

769
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:50.340
You know, like there's there's stuff that doesn't quite work, but there's things in it and there's ideas in it and that makes a change from something like wolf in the fold, which was just 50 minutes of tedious bullshit, you know?

770
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:59.219
Not wolf in the fold, whom gods destroy, although wolf in the fold was hilarious, bullshit. do I have to keep mentioning that green woman on the rock exploding?

771
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.199
No, that's whom God's destroyed.

772
00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:01.920
That's right.

773
00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:03.900
We per have a bit during that scene, didn't we?

774
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:04.800
that was awesome.

775
00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:07.559
I can't say I perked up at all during this.

776
00:49:07.619 --> 00:49:11.519
I think Adam is coming on to Tongo because there's a thing where he's singing.

777
00:49:11.579 --> 00:49:25.440
So this head now to Eden thing, the music comes in later when they both die, when Severn and Adam die on the planet, we actually hear that music queue again, and they all sing it together a little bit later.

778
00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:37.980
Um, but then there's, he's saying something about, you know, because everyone's brother, that's the other thing, because just like proper hippies, they're super sexist, because it is still the 1960s.

779
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:42.059
Um, and, and I just thought he was coming onto Tongo there.

780
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:44.099
Tongo looked a little bit kind of...

781
00:49:44.099 --> 00:49:45.179
Is that a you reading no?

782
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:46.860
Or do you think that's in the script?

783
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:48.119
What's that?

784
00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:49.440
Well, you just said there.

785
00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:52.260
Oh, I've just me reading for shot.

786
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:53.579
Just a little shot.

787
00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:56.760
We've got a feel 50 minutes somehow, haven't we?

788
00:49:56.820 --> 00:49:57.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

789
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:58.139
That's it.

790
00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:02.039
Oh, can we get down to this fucking planet already, please?

791
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:12.780
Did you see the maniacal look on Severance face when he realised they were going to Eden?

792
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:14.760
There was this whopping great close-up on him.

793
00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:19.320
There's no doubt in my mind that he's truly evil, this man.

794
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:23.880
Yeah, there's, but that's the that's the point, isn't it?

795
00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:30.780
Like these are dumb children who are being led astray into this hippie lifestyle by Dr. Timothy Leary.

796
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.500
Do you know what I mean?

797
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:37.860
Or whatever, enormous ear, with an enormous ear, and a really bad bald wig.

798
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:41.940
Look at the joint on that purple wig. terrible.

799
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.800
It's really bad, isn't it?

800
00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:48.059
Yeah, it probably wasn't as visible on a TV in 1969 though.

801
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:53.880
I might get us both a pair of those purple eyebrows, though, so we can do a publicity shock, UTSP.

802
00:50:55.019 --> 00:50:58.320
I feel like we need to sort of juice it up again, you know?

803
00:50:58.739 --> 00:51:01.800
But you see, I think this is an interesting moment, right?

804
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:12.300
So they're going to use ultrasonics or something to disable the crew so that they can get down to the shuttle bay and steal a shuttle and 2 of them object.

805
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:23.639
First arena, and then Tongo object and say, that sound is not going to just disable them.

806
00:51:23.699 --> 00:51:24.659
It will kill them.

807
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:28.199
And they both object, but they may do it anyway.

808
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:40.860
And so, and so what's clear is that he is able to get them to murder, you know, 400 people in order to get to Eden and that's how they're depicted.

809
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:46.739
And there's no consequences because the episode's kind of a mess, but that's where we land with this.

810
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:53.219
Shut the starts off doing its reaction, sort of noise, like very over the top, like he spends most of free.

811
00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:56.760
And then decides, nosh, I can't be asking. just falls to the floor.

812
00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.639
But Nemoy is affected.

813
00:51:59.699 --> 00:52:00.960
I watch...

814
00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:02.340
Christine.

815
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:04.500
Magell, absolutely, guys.

816
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:05.340
That's so great.

817
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:07.079
Chepping into Eden.

818
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:11.280
Yeah, brother, stepping into Eden.

819
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:18.780
I mean, at this point, awful, I'd lost all sense when everyone was unconscious and they're singing their hippie songs.

820
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:21.599
I was like, but that's a good, like, that's good.

821
00:52:21.659 --> 00:52:23.039
Do you know what I mean?

822
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:24.659
They're singing?

823
00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:29.400
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's not quite as good as like home.

824
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:35.940
Do you remember when the sheriff gets killed and you get the song, the ironic song, but that's what it is.

825
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:38.940
It's an ironic song where they've just killed 400 people.

826
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:43.619
And they're singing this song about how great Eden's going to be.

827
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:45.780
And then it turns out it doesn't kill him after all.

828
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:54.360
I just figured that the cast had got to a point where they thought, well, I cannot act in this nonsense anymore and they all just fell on the floor.

829
00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:57.840
That was their protest to this episode.

830
00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:00.300
But I mean, that's a good moment.

831
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:08.699
You know, like having them sing their utopian song while the people that they've harmed, you know, where we get to see them lying all over the ship.

832
00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:11.280
I'll tell you what was a good moment.

833
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:13.980
I was super refreshed when we went down to the planet.

834
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:24.659
I mean, I realised this thing was going to wrap up pretty soon because we only had 5 minutes left, but it was so nice to get out of these enterprise sets and somewhere else for just 5 minutes.

835
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.059
And you know, it's quite a nice set, actually.

836
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:31.739
They put the whole shuttlecraft into the foreign set as well, which is quite nice.

837
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.340
Yeah.

838
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:33.000
Yeah.

839
00:53:33.059 --> 00:53:36.659
So I sent you the original picture.

840
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:38.099
I don't know if you noticed it.

841
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:41.460
So, um, yeah, later on.

842
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:53.880
Um, there's a beautiful um, computer generated image, which looks a little bit like the painting that they do in um, in an early episode.

843
00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:56.820
It was in the closing credits for a while in series one.

844
00:53:57.179 --> 00:54:01.199
But they had a big map painting that had, you know, mountains and and a moon.

845
00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:02.519
Oh, with the planets in the sky as well.

846
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:03.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

847
00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:07.079
And so, yeah, so they're doing something that's sort of sympathetic to that.

848
00:54:07.139 --> 00:54:13.260
Originally it was just some muddy fucking lake somewhere. just outside LA, which looked so bad.

849
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:14.760
Like it was so terrible.

850
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:19.019
You can't tell me there's an even worse version of this episode out there somewhere.

851
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:20.460
I don't believe you.

852
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:24.900
Well, Eden is not quite as idyllic in the transmitted version.

853
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:29.880
Oh, you think it gave it away in the original version that it was a toxic landscape?

854
00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:35.760
Well, no, I think I think they're intending to make it beautiful, but somehow didn't manage it.

855
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.760
Thank God for the restorers, eh?

856
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:43.559
Oh, I said God ironically then, by the way.

857
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:48.360
I mean, I do love seeing the Enterprise in CGI.

858
00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:50.280
It is lovely. yeah.

859
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:52.019
So they beam down now.

860
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:56.880
Adam, they discover Adam, dead, and the poisonous fruit just out of his reach.

861
00:54:56.940 --> 00:54:59.039
Oh, you're right. beautiful.

862
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:03.059
Yeah, yeah, it's an amazing shot, isn't it?

863
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:04.260
Like, it's really something.

864
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:09.239
That's really... quite sort of 60s SF paw paw, isn't it?

865
00:55:09.300 --> 00:55:10.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

866
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:11.940
It's sympathetic with the period.

867
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:17.820
And even the fruit that Adam and Severn eat, they're visible on the tree.

868
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:22.199
Fortunately, it's clearly a still though, because the water's not moving at all.

869
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:26.039
There's no movement in the water. not, is it?

870
00:55:26.099 --> 00:55:26.639
Whoops.

871
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:30.780
Oh, missing check off, what ails you?

872
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:32.519
Yeah.

873
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:35.219
They just stop beaming down on the planets.

874
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:36.539
Things don't go well, do they?

875
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:41.460
So this, I think this ending is properly good.

876
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:46.440
And even though it's nasty and mean-spirited in a way that the rest of the episode is as well.

877
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:51.119
Like, this would have scared the living daylights out of me when I was a kid.

878
00:55:51.179 --> 00:55:54.000
Like absolutely terrifying, I think.

879
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:56.820
This very sort of succulent landscape proving deadly.

880
00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:00.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

881
00:56:00.059 --> 00:56:00.539
Yeah.

882
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.519
Where everything is full of acid.

883
00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:04.199
Like everything you touch.

884
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:06.239
And like the burns look horrible.

885
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:11.039
Later on when you see Severance feet, because of course they're all fucking Ippies and they're not wearing...

886
00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:11.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

887
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:12.780
Yeah.

888
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:14.820
Like, I think that's really terrifying.

889
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:19.559
And then this thing with Adam, like, you don't even see his death.

890
00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:20.280
He's just dead.

891
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.500
Well, his fingers moving there.

892
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:31.320
But he, um, like we get, um, you know, Spock's a, his name was Adam.

893
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:32.400
Do you know what I mean?

894
00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:36.480
He ate from a fruit in Eden and then died.

895
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:40.800
So biblically, this is saying what?

896
00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:42.900
Well, that sort of makes no sense either.

897
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:49.980
But, but, um, but, you know, like he's commenting on that thing that they made up.

898
00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:51.000
I was really confused here.

899
00:56:51.059 --> 00:56:55.139
So they've gone on to display what realises it's toxic and they're all hiding away in the shuttle.

900
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:56.460
Or have they not come out?

901
00:56:56.460 --> 00:56:57.360
Yeah, I'm really confused.

902
00:56:57.420 --> 00:57:05.579
No, because they've all been out and they've walked on the grass because there's a line of dialogue saying everything is full of acid, even the grass.

903
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:12.239
And so the kids, because they're hippies, they don't wear shoes and they've gone out and trodden on the thing and they've burned themselves.

904
00:57:12.300 --> 00:57:15.360
And so they've somehow made it back into the shuttle.

905
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:18.420
But Adam has died 1st because he's had an apple.

906
00:57:18.420 --> 00:57:21.360
And then Severn dies because no reason.

907
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:23.099
Because he's insane.

908
00:57:23.099 --> 00:57:24.719
Because he's insane.

909
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:27.119
And insane people who can tell what they do.

910
00:57:27.179 --> 00:57:28.860
They do insane things.

911
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:31.199
Oh, like...

912
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:34.019
No, I once went on a date with a really cute bloke, right?

913
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:39.300
properly gorgeous bloke, he had a terrible case of athlete's foot. looked a bit like that.

914
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:41.940
Unfortunately, it couldn't last between us.

915
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:42.840
Sorry.

916
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:44.699
Yeah, yeah.

917
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:47.760
I'm not taking it, she's greater to anyone's feet.

918
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:51.000
But that is nasty.

919
00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:52.800
Yeah, look at what is going on now?

920
00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:54.719
Yeah, that makes no sense.

921
00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:56.159
We're not leaving.

922
00:57:56.219 --> 00:57:58.199
We're in Eden, even though it's toxic.

923
00:57:58.260 --> 00:58:00.780
I'm going to kill myself the end.

924
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:02.099
What?

925
00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:02.579
Yeah.

926
00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:04.500
But he they're saying you'll kill yourself.

927
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:05.460
Do you know what you're doing?

928
00:58:05.579 --> 00:58:08.340
And then he kills himself, then he goes, wow, that's like acid.

929
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:13.980
And then they really mean to Irina. you know, like, don't be mean to her like, that's terrible.

930
00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:16.679
Dr. Severin.

931
00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:20.880
I'm sorry, you were too evil to be allowed to stay alive. evil to live.

932
00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:21.539
Yeah.

933
00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:24.000
I like his pants though.

934
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:26.820
I was thinking that as well, you know.

935
00:58:27.059 --> 00:58:29.219
It's probably hippie stuff.

936
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:31.199
Like, I thought that were, you know, like the trousers.

937
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:34.260
We've got a hippie stall in the market in town.

938
00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:36.539
When you come with it, you can get pants.

939
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:37.679
We'll go and get some pants.

940
00:58:37.739 --> 00:58:39.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

941
00:58:39.179 --> 00:58:43.139
We'll have a dress up, wait to Eden day while you're here.

942
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:44.880
Yeah, absolutely. brilliant.

943
00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:50.039
Okay, so are we going to reach a conclusion on the bridge now?

944
00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:53.039
Like we normally do, look out off the camera and tell us the moral?

945
00:58:53.099 --> 00:59:04.980
No, but there is what I said before is actually a nice moment, which is Spock validating them, even though they've been incredibly murderous.

946
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:08.639
You know, like even though she knew that everyone was going to be killed.

947
00:59:08.699 --> 00:59:10.619
We've forgotten that.

948
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:14.639
And we get a moment of generosity from Spock.

949
00:59:14.699 --> 00:59:17.760
And a really cute moment with, um...

950
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:18.599
My mouth though, is there?

951
00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:22.019
When everyone's been just horrid to them for a hour.

952
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:25.139
Oh, immediately, they have turned out to be evil, but...

953
00:59:25.260 --> 00:59:27.659
Well, yeah, yeah, Spark hasn't been horrid to them, though.

954
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:30.659
He's been sympathetic all the way through and that counts for something.

955
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:32.760
Except to Dr. Vedrin.

956
00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:36.119
Yeah, yeah, but Jim, that man is insane.

957
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:37.019
Insane.

958
00:59:37.019 --> 00:59:37.559
I know.

959
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:37.980
I know.

960
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:38.940
Yeah.

961
00:59:38.940 --> 00:59:40.739
I think this is huge.

962
00:59:40.739 --> 00:59:42.840
Oh, be incorrect.

963
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:43.559
Occasionally.

964
00:59:43.619 --> 00:59:45.780
I think you say that to me every now and again, you know.

965
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:47.219
No, it's really cute.

966
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:57.719
She says be incorrect occasionally and he says you be correct and she just smiles naughtily and says occasionally, which I just think is adorable.

967
00:59:57.780 --> 00:59:59.639
That's quite charming, you know.

968
00:59:59.699 --> 01:00:06.900
And then what Spock says to her is, it's my sincere wish that you do not give up your search for Eden or whatever.

969
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:09.780
I have no doubt, but then you will find it or make it yourselves.

970
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:10.800
I think that's beautiful.

971
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:11.880
You know, like that?

972
01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:18.119
This doesn't work because she was part of the people that knocked everybody out that was willing to kill everybody.

973
01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:19.980
So why does she get a redemptive ending?

974
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:23.519
So the so the episode doesn't work.

975
01:00:23.579 --> 01:00:26.159
There's 2 things happening in it.

976
01:00:26.219 --> 01:00:27.179
Do you know what I mean?

977
01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:31.500
And so it's super like hostile and the children are terrible and all of that.

978
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:32.880
He's a crap joke at the end.

979
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:35.460
Produced by Fred Freiburger.

980
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:36.179
Yeah, we know.

981
01:00:36.179 --> 01:00:36.840
All right.

982
01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:37.920
We realise that.

983
01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:39.659
You didn't have to put off the caption.

984
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:41.579
Jesus Christ.

985
01:00:41.639 --> 01:00:43.380
Ooh, I don't know what?

986
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:45.300
The season three, let's see what we get.

987
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:48.239
We get the, the, is that Home Goss destroy?

988
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:51.000
No, who mourns for Adonise, I think.

989
01:00:51.059 --> 01:00:54.360
Oh, a nice little sort of space station there with the enterprise coming away.

990
01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:55.440
Oh yeah, there you go.

991
01:00:55.500 --> 01:00:56.760
Girl one and girl two.

992
01:00:56.820 --> 01:00:57.480
You were right.

993
01:00:57.539 --> 01:00:58.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

994
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:09.239
Do you know the thing I'll probably take away from this beyond those horrible scabby feet is girl number one on her bicycle wheel?

995
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:11.579
Yeah, I think she is quite good.

996
01:01:11.639 --> 01:01:13.679
I, like, I, that music wasn't terrible.

997
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:19.679
Like, you know, like I thought that was nice and at least they weren't singing. she had a beautiful voice as well.

998
01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:24.480
Do you know, in our discussions... girl one and girl two. did get them right.

999
01:01:24.539 --> 01:01:25.500
You did?

1000
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:27.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1001
01:01:27.300 --> 01:01:28.980
Well done.

1002
01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:32.940
You won't just be dismissive in our very 1960s way.

1003
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:34.320
You were in fact correct.

1004
01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:40.860
I knew that they were called go one and goal too, because I always copy the cast down into my notes so that I kind of know who I'm talking about.

1005
01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:50.159
And I just assumed that the blonde woman was girl one because she gets to sing and is in it more, and I was right.

1006
01:01:50.219 --> 01:01:54.239
I looked up Deborah Downey on memory Alfred, and that was her.

1007
01:01:54.300 --> 01:01:55.980
She's 75 now.

1008
01:01:56.039 --> 01:01:59.400
Oh, I bet she's super proud that she...

1009
01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:01.619
I hope she strung her bicycle wheel.

1010
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:02.699
No, no, no.

1011
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:13.019
One thing you have revealed to me in our discussions today is, yes, there is the bare bones of something competent having in terms of plotting in this episode.

1012
01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:24.719
But it doesn't, it doesn't really change my opinion that even though it is deliberately making these people really annoying all this.

1013
01:02:24.780 --> 01:02:25.860
It's still really annoying.

1014
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:26.880
They're still annoying.

1015
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:31.800
And frankly, I would be happy to never watch this episode again.

1016
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:33.539
I think I would watch it again.

1017
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:37.199
I would certainly watch it before I watched, you know, whom gods destroy again.

1018
01:02:37.260 --> 01:02:40.500
But it is so mean-spirited.

1019
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:43.260
That's the thing that I dislike about it.

1020
01:02:43.320 --> 01:03:00.599
It's dismissive of kids generally and dismissive of a generation of kids who protested Vietnam and stuff like that while their parents were voting for people who were carpet bombing Southeast Asia and stuff.

1021
01:03:00.659 --> 01:03:03.900
It's sort of a famous failure, this episode, isn't it?

1022
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:09.300
Like it is a one that people point at and go, that is a particularly bad episode.

1023
01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:10.199
Jimmy doing.

1024
01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:13.320
There's a quote from him in Memory Alpha, Major L. Barrett.

1025
01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:14.760
She said this was terrible as well.

1026
01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:17.460
And I said to you in the chat.

1027
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:25.500
I said, this is clearly the work of a studio that does not realise what they have on their hands.

1028
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:37.739
They realise once the show is cancelled and the sets are destroyed, but they've got something that's massively popular and deserves to have the best, the best writers, the best directors and all of that pumped into it.

1029
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:41.460
And this is just a show on its dying legs.

1030
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:43.139
No one's really putting much into this.

1031
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:50.579
But I think that, I think the problem is too, that who, who is this for?

1032
01:03:50.639 --> 01:04:03.000
Like, because the people watching Star Trek are not the mums and dads who think that the hippies are disgusting animals who should be in cages, their kids are...

1033
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:04.679
Isn't Star Trek angry?

1034
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:05.639
Kids?

1035
01:04:05.699 --> 01:04:16.619
So why are we having an episode about how shit kids are and how they're all communists and they'll kill you given half a chance, no matter how enthusiastic they are about playing the guitar?

1036
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:19.260
Like that just, that's ridiculous.

1037
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:21.360
But it's like I said, you're in the middle of the episode.

1038
01:04:21.420 --> 01:04:31.440
If you're, if you're the sort of serious adult that genuinely has objections to this, you're not going to see yourself in the enterprise crew here, they're all pricks.

1039
01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:35.039
Yeah, and if you're a kid, you're not going to see yourself in the hippies here.

1040
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:38.159
So it's just failing to appeal on either side.

1041
01:04:38.219 --> 01:04:39.420
It's very odd.

1042
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:39.840
Yeah.

1043
01:04:39.900 --> 01:04:40.800
So odd.

1044
01:04:40.860 --> 01:04:45.659
It is a failure, but like I wasn't bored as much as...

1045
01:04:45.659 --> 01:05:01.619
And, you know, like it did seem to be doing something to be about something and to have a plot and reversals and things that seemed like a reasonably competent episode, but I just can't get over how mean and miserable it is.

1046
01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:03.420
I think that's unforgivable.

1047
01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:13.920
I mean, I didn't get a huge amount of entertainment from this, aside from talking to you about it, but I did get an enormous amount of entertainment from those enormous purple eyebrows.

1048
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:26.880
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to find out where we're going next.

1049
01:05:26.940 --> 01:05:34.019
This was my choice, the way to Eden, up to my usual standard, and it's time for a course correction.

1050
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:37.019
So it's your turn now.

1051
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:39.480
What series are we choosing from?

1052
01:05:39.539 --> 01:05:49.860
I mean, if you want to go and make a cup of tea or something for the next 5 minutes, because I want a better episode than the Way to Eden, but I have chosen Star Trek Voyager.

1053
01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:51.420
So I may be here sometimes.

1054
01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:52.679
I don't know.

1055
01:05:55.500 --> 01:05:58.260
Okay, tea in hand, you're back.

1056
01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:58.739
Let's go.

1057
01:05:58.800 --> 01:05:59.400
Yeah.

1058
01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:03.539
Oh god, it's almost on par with the way to Eden.

1059
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.699
No, we can't do this one, I'm afraid.

1060
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:08.280
It's season seven, episode 18.

1061
01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:09.239
Season seven.

1062
01:06:09.300 --> 01:06:12.179
What is it about 90s trek and season seven?

1063
01:06:12.239 --> 01:06:13.800
Human error?

1064
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:17.460
This is the great Chakotay 7 romance episode.

1065
01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:19.800
Yeah, that is a human era.

1066
01:06:19.860 --> 01:06:20.460
Don't do that.

1067
01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:23.280
We've already done this one.

1068
01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:27.239
We covered this episode on untitled Star Trek Project, episode 87.

1069
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:32.159
That was season six, episode 22, Muse, which was a very good episode.

1070
01:06:32.219 --> 01:06:32.940
Excellent.

1071
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:34.079
Yeah.

1072
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:39.659
Oh, no, we covered this one on title Star Trek Project episode 78.

1073
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:41.760
We haven't done that many voyages.

1074
01:06:41.820 --> 01:06:42.300
Jesus.

1075
01:06:42.300 --> 01:06:42.960
No, no.

1076
01:06:43.019 --> 01:06:48.300
Season 6, episode 16 collective of the famous yellow lighting gels.

1077
01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:49.500
You recall?

1078
01:06:49.500 --> 01:06:50.039
Boring.

1079
01:06:50.099 --> 01:06:50.940
Okay.

1080
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:52.139
Oh no.

1081
01:06:55.739 --> 01:07:03.480
This is sort of infamously. a bit like I move along home infamously like one of the least popular Voyager episodes.

1082
01:07:03.539 --> 01:07:06.900
Season two, episode six, twisted.

1083
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:13.260
It's the one where the anomaly is moving really slowly through the ship. the ship.

1084
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:14.579
Yeah, less so boring.

1085
01:07:15.059 --> 01:07:15.239
No.

1086
01:07:15.300 --> 01:07:16.619
Oh what about this?

1087
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:20.699
Season three, episode three, the shoot.

1088
01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:27.119
Now, this is the episode where they wanted to suggest there was something a bit homerotic occurring.

1089
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:28.920
Right.

1090
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:33.480
Not quite, but I mean, we cut away. don't actually know.

1091
01:07:33.539 --> 01:07:39.179
It does have the wonderful bit where Kate jumps down the chute with an enormous fucking gum.

1092
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:41.159
It's kind of wonderful.

1093
01:07:42.179 --> 01:07:44.699
Unfortunately, I'll press the button again.

1094
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:46.860
I'm sorry about that. miserable, I think, that one.

1095
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:49.079
Oh, I thought we done this one.

1096
01:07:49.139 --> 01:07:52.139
Season three, episode 10 Warlord. we done that one?

1097
01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:59.880
Yeah, no, no, I think what happened was that we talked about it or we would, there was a KS episode or something and I'd watched it recently and so we did talk about it.

1098
01:07:59.940 --> 01:08:04.260
So we have mentioned it on the show, but we haven't done it.

1099
01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:10.980
I realise saying this after saying that Harry Kim and Tom Paris may have got up to something in the shoe.

1100
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:24.359
I could be wrong, but this is the episode that suggests there's an element of bisexuality to Kez when she's taken over by the evil Kieron and is having a relationship with both the mistress and the husband. is amazing.

1101
01:08:25.020 --> 01:08:29.399
However, I have rolled again and I would like to do this episode.

1102
01:08:29.460 --> 01:08:33.180
I do remember it being great and it does feature Cisca.

1103
01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:36.060
So automatic gold star for that.

1104
01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:38.100
And she's great in it.

1105
01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:43.199
No, it's season two, episode 11, manoeuvres.

1106
01:08:43.260 --> 01:08:44.939
Ooh, excellent.

1107
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:46.380
It's a great episode.

1108
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:50.279
I think this is the one where she comes up at the end and goes, hello, Chakoti.

1109
01:08:50.340 --> 01:08:55.020
I just wanted to let you know I'm pregnant. wonderful.

1110
01:08:55.140 --> 01:08:56.699
Soap conference twist.

1111
01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:09.420
It's the one where where the Kazon do a terrorist raid on Voyager and literally punch a shuttle into Voyager side and steal a load of technology.

1112
01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:18.600
And it was the point where basically they said series 2 isn't working. we need to up the action and make this show a bit more exciting.

1113
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:19.920
And this was the 1st one.

1114
01:09:19.979 --> 01:09:22.859
You got Deadlock and others coming after this.

1115
01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:26.460
But yeah, I think it's an interesting one to talk about.

1116
01:09:26.520 --> 01:09:28.680
And it's another season 21 and we do like season two.

1117
01:09:28.739 --> 01:09:30.180
That'd be fun.

1118
01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:31.680
Excellent, brilliant. lets do that.

1119
01:09:31.739 --> 01:09:32.460
Let's do it.

1120
01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:51.840
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1121
01:09:51.899 --> 01:09:57.600
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1122
01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:03.479
This episode was recorded on the 7th of January 2025 and released on the 10th of January.

1123
01:10:03.539 --> 01:10:07.800
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, manoeuvres.

1124
01:10:25.859 --> 01:10:27.479
Now, he's been watching...

1125
01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:31.079
Don't come at me for this, all right?

1126
01:10:31.140 --> 01:10:35.579
He's been watching Heartstopper, and I just can't watch it.

1127
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:38.939
I just did that. so sweet. fucking nice.

1128
01:10:39.180 --> 01:10:40.920
I hate them all.

1129
01:10:40.979 --> 01:10:45.000
I said, this would be the worst friendship group ever possibly for the same reason.

1130
01:10:45.060 --> 01:10:47.579
He just hates it because everything's so nice.

1131
01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:54.479
I think the boy, the boy that was in the Agatha show, I just think he's unbearably twee.

1132
01:10:54.899 --> 01:10:56.279
Yeah.

1133
01:10:56.340 --> 01:10:57.840
No, I mean, I really like it.

1134
01:10:57.899 --> 01:11:04.020
I think it is very sweet. and I think it captures something that we never got to experience or I never got to experience, which I kind of like.

1135
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:05.340
I think that's sort of sweet.

1136
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:11.279
And I always love the sort of school thing, but I liked, love Victor better, which is on Disney.

1137
01:11:11.399 --> 01:11:14.340
Yeah, I saw a trailer for that and I thought...

1138
01:11:14.399 --> 01:11:23.640
Actually, I enjoyed the, because you know me, I don't really get on with gay programs very much, but I really enjoyed that ridiculous film he made me watch, red, white, and...

1139
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:26.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1140
01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:32.340
But they just had such great chemistry in that movie, like hot chemistry.

1141
01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:40.500
Well, so love Victor, like his kids at school and stuff, and there was a, there was a show called Love Simon, which was based on this book.

1142
01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:43.560
Um, you know, like a young adults book.

1143
01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:51.300
And it's like this kid who has an email relationship with this guy and they eventually kind of fall in love, but he doesn't know who he is.

1144
01:11:51.359 --> 01:11:56.220
They're both anonymous to each other and they know that they both go to the same school, but they don't know who they are.

1145
01:11:56.279 --> 01:12:09.000
Um, and it's really good and it's very sweet and he comes out to his parents and they're, everyone's sort of very middle class and very kind of, you know, um, Jennifer Garner is his mother, for God's sake.

1146
01:12:09.060 --> 01:12:09.720
Do you know what I mean?

1147
01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:11.640
Like, it's all fine.

1148
01:12:11.699 --> 01:12:19.260
Um, and so love Victor stars. with Victor talking to Simon.

1149
01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:26.579
So Simon's left and gone to university and stuff and Victor has just moved from to Texas from somewhere.

1150
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:28.680
No, they in Georgia.

1151
01:12:28.739 --> 01:12:30.180
I can't remember that, the southern state.

1152
01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:42.479
But he's family's Latino and he's can't come out and like he's saying it's all right for you being this sort of white middle class kid and everything turned out very well for you, but it's actually harder for the rest of us.

1153
01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:43.560
And it's really good.

1154
01:12:43.619 --> 01:12:45.420
Like, I think that's really properly good.

1155
01:12:45.420 --> 01:12:55.680
And it's, um, got wrecks from, um, Torchwood Miracle Day, is the father of one of the characters.

1156
01:12:55.739 --> 01:12:58.260
Um, what bit?

1157
01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:00.659
So one bit of really made me set up.

1158
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:03.960
Because he's had been, what, he's watching series 3 now.

1159
01:13:04.020 --> 01:13:05.460
So he's been watching it for a couple of weeks.

1160
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:09.840
I'm sort of in and out the room, but never really watching it. was the brother.

1161
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:10.979
It was such a prick.

1162
01:13:11.039 --> 01:13:15.300
And I was like, oh, finally, someone I can get beyond someone instead of hosta.

1163
01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:16.319
Yeah, there's something.

1164
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:26.399
But, but I mean, I think, like, I think because, like, it's the 1st kind of thing quite like this.

1165
01:13:26.460 --> 01:13:27.899
I for me.

1166
01:13:27.899 --> 01:13:29.460
It's for kids.

1167
01:13:29.460 --> 01:13:34.260
And it needs to be not, we're going to have a terrible time all the time.

1168
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:35.220
Do you know what I mean?

1169
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:37.439
It's got to be, we will find nice people.

1170
01:13:37.500 --> 01:13:57.659
And, like, I even found that, like, he, like, I even found that there's enough homophobia and stuff directed at him at least in series one, um, that I actually found that kind of, oh, oh, still, you know, like, still, um, so there was some obstacles to overcome.

1171
01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:00.659
But it is very gentle and very nice.

1172
01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:04.199
I like all the animation they put in.

1173
01:14:04.260 --> 01:14:06.899
That's really nicely done and it's genuinely emotional.

1174
01:14:07.020 --> 01:14:09.239
Obviously, they choose it for the right moments.

1175
01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:24.960
There's that, there was that great bit where, oh, God, hated the speech where we went up to that kid outside the school and went, it's not okay for what you did to me and all that, and it's just, you know, triumphant moment where he finally stands up to this awful kid.

1176
01:14:25.020 --> 01:14:34.859
And then this rainbow sort of road came towards the kids who was pushing away his sexuality and he just sort of walks away from the rainbow.

1177
01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:37.439
And I thought, that's really, that's very nice.

1178
01:14:37.500 --> 01:14:41.399
So it's a graphic series of graphic novels, which I've then read.

1179
01:14:41.460 --> 01:14:42.180
Do you know what I mean?

1180
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:49.199
And they're great and um, And like I'm looking forward to the final one, which is coming out later this year.