WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:55:46

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, this week we're back aboard Deep Space 9 for series 4, episode

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17 Accession.

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And when you talked about it last week, I did remember that that's

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an episode that happened, but what I didn't remember is that it's

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one of Jane Spenson's very rare contributions to Star Trek.

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And we know her, I think, originally from Buffy, just the best

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Buffy the Vampires.

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Like people say it's just Whedon, but you check out Jaden Spencer

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in this episode.

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She knocks out one zinger after another.

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She's properly funny and she does great character stuff and she's

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just a really good thoughtful writer with a great career and she's

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really, really good.

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It's such a shame that this is just about the only thing she ever

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did.

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She did sell some story ideas.

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Um, to Star Trek the Next Generation.

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And the idea for force of nature is hers.

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Oh boy.

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Well, it's not a good episode.

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But I do think the idea is great. because the thing about force of

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nature is that it threatens the show's ability to tell Star Trek

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stories.

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You know, if something happens to subspace and we can't do this

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anymore, we can't have Star Trek anymore.

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So the stakes are really high because the stakes affect the

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audience at home.

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She wouldn't have ruined it with a load of technobabble though.

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She should have put in a cause.

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You can buy this story, but I'm writing it, you know?

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And it would have been full of great humour and wonderful

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character moments.

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Yeah, which that episode isn't.

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But it has a really great premise, I think.

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But this is magical.

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I think this is really, really good in all sorts of ways.

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She knows the characters and she knows what to do with them.

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There's moments that don't rely on just people standing up and

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telling each other how they feel about things, which is so

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refreshing.

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Well, amusingly, there is a little bit of that as well. a bit of

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that too.

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It's well written.

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They may be talking directly to the camera going, oh, so he is

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your emissary, but it is well written.

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It is really great.

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There's a wall to it, isn't there?

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I think she just gets that this is a family on Deep Space 9, but

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without having to stress that this is a family on Deep Space 9.

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So just have them as people that live their lives around each

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other and just love being together.

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And I think this is one too, where the B plot, which doesn't seem

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to have anything at all to do with the A plot.

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Um, makes the station feel lived in, makes it feel like a home.

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And so the B plot, which is the very welcome return of Rosalyn

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Chow as Keiko.

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She's so great.

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And her and Miles learning to live together again and the effect

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that that has on his relationship with Julian.

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All of that is not very spacy or science fiction or anything like

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that.

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It's proper sitcom staff, but it's done so well and with such a

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light touch, and it just makes you feel like here you are on the

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station, which you know it's a place that you know and you love

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and I just think it makes the station feel warm and populated and

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like a home.

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I think it's really good.

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I had a situation where I, my ex-husband had to go away for 5 days

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at a time to work and then would come home for 5 days, yes.

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It was on a shift pattern like that.

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And we literally went through this, what they go through in this

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episode, every 5 days.

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And the trouble with it was that whilst they're away, you get on

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with your life.

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They sort of think like that your life's paused until they come

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back.

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They come back and say, right, we're going to do this and no

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excuse me.

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And so all of this stuff about Keiko coming back and they, he's

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turned the room into a terrible mess that he's got to clear up

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when you go, because you know, we've all seen Keiko mad.

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It's terrifying.

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Molly Maz even worse. that in this too.

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But yeah, so I was like, yeah, all of this is relatable and it's

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being filtered through characters written with just a delicate

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touch of humour.

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And it's what you said before, and I kind of see it here.

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It's just nice people going through normal life. and it's really

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really quite addictive to watch.

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Yeah.

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I think it's really fun.

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And, you know, the 1st episode of Deep Space 9 we ever did, which

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was our 2nd episode of Untitled Star Trek project was House of

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Quark, and it had a Keiko Mile subplot, which felt incidental and

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kind of boring, and it's sort of a bit stupid.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, it just wasn't that... learning.

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Yeah, they really are.

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They nailed it this time.

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You know, like, I think the A-plot is fantastic.

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I think it's really good.

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I think that, you know, the what happens to a quorum is super

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interesting.

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Like, simple and interesting.

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It doesn't need a lot of exposition or explanation or anything.

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It's clear what's going on.

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And, you know, the way that it changes people and the way that it

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just, that develops throughout the episode, I just think, is

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really, really good as well.

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I don't think this is terrific.

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It makes me feel sad that we didn't get more Jane.

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We're so lucky as well, that we have Kira on the station.

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So whenever sweeping changes happen with the Bajorans, it can be

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filtered through, not only a character that's so well defined, but

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just a brilliant actress as well, who can absolutely sell without

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saying a word, what she's the conflict that she's going through.

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She's so good at that.

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There's several scenes I really want to talk about as we go

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through.

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But also as well, Janis Benson knows this is a pinpoint in the run

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of DS9.

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And they obviously don't know where they're heading with Cisco, but

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they've got an idea because at the end of this, the prophets say

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to Cisco, we are a Bajor, you are a Bajor.

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So they're throwing out Babylon 5 style mysterious statements, you

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know, from the godlike beings.

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And I don't think they've figured out what that means yet, but

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they're like, right, well, that's intriguing and we'll pick it up

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later.

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We never forget it, do we?

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Do you remember at the end of the war, he says, I'm going to build

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a home on Bajor, you know, like he's he is off Bajor.

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And so that is a change to the way the character is conceived that

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they that they introduce here.

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He needs this course correction.

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Otherwise, the 2nd half of the series, the way it plays out, it

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just doesn't work.

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So we from the very 1st episode where the prophet's met it, which

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is directly referred to in this as well in this area when they

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found him and put his life back on track. to this, which is bang

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in the middle of the series.

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I think this might be the middle episode of the series.

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It's halfway through the 4th series. to what you leave behind

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where he's met his mother at this point.

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He finds out precisely why he's of Bajor, and well, he's

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completely off Bajor by the end of that episode, because ta, you

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know, into the wormhole, as you appear to be right now.

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Sorry, he's got on the zoom call.

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Yeah.

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So I just think this is so brilliantly placed in the middle of the

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series to take the central character of this show in a completely

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different direction.

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And it really, and we said it a 1000000 times before.

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This is the only show in Nighty Street that's doing this, right?

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And it's an accident.

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This is right in the middle of the series.

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But boy, it feels planned.

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It's not, but it does feel planned.

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It's good.

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I think it's really great.

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All right.

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What do you think?

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Should we go in?

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How could we possibly destroy this piece of art?

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Let's go.

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All right.

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Okay, I will count us in in that case.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Okay, so have they been doing in these quarters for this to be

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such a horrible mess?

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So according to Memory Alpha, Colin Meaney thought this was a bit

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of a crappy sitcom thing.

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Nathan, will you take a look around this room?

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I'm sitting in right now.

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It's very real Okay?

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That's it.

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That's how men.

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Like what, he's got some kind of insect, like a giant insect

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sculpture there.

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I mean, I don't know if you remember.

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In, uh, in explorers in Series 3.

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You know, when Julian and Miles get pissed on a load of whiskey

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and end up sort of sprawled around the room and that.

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I mean, they probably made the insect that day, you know.

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Oh, probably.

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When they weren't snogging, obviously.

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Well, of course, but yeah.

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Oh, daddy, daddy.

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I've got a little brother. place.

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That's so funny.

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Miles thinks it's the doll.

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Like, oh, that kiss is really not very good, is it?

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I mean, I really believe there was a couple when they're not being

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sexy, you know?

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You've been together too long now.

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Stop being sexy.

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So yeah, no, it's in there.

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It's in mummy's tummy.

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Well, and of course, this goes on to have huge consequences.

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It's why Kira moves in with the O'Briens later and that dreadful

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sitcom plot when she gives birth.

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Oh boy.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But then we get Kirioshi.

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Yep, yep.

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It's just real people, isn't it?

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It's just real people going through real stuff.

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Who knew Star Trek could do this?

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The thing that I thought was particularly hilarious, though, was

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that he thinks he thought he kind of goes, oh, I thought it'd take

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longer.

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I thought it'd take a few nights to get pregnant.

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You gotta go, you do know how this works.

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So you're like, you know, kind of, like, build it up and work.

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He's not talking about making babies, you know.

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He's just talking about some fun, you know?

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Yeah, that's it.

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It's like we got to have sex once and now there's a child coming.

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I thought, Julian, would, you know, give us that contraceptive

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injection and we could have a go for a couple of years.

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Oh, this man, Vedic Porter. he's very creepy I'll find.

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So both the guy who plays a quorum and the guy who plays Porter.

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I had just assumed that they'd been in Star Trek before, but

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neither of them has, but they look very familiar. and I'm how you

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start doing this.

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When they've been in it before and when they're going to be in it

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afterwards.

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Well, I also...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No.

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And that's just something that I'm interested in because it's

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always, oh, you know, that's a that guy, you know.

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So watch Cisco here, Avery Brooks playing Cisco being absolutely

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awkward having to give this ceremony now for these two.

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And have we seen him do this?

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Like, I think we're checking in here to establish what his role as

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emissary means.

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We keep participating in the gratitude ceremony or something.

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Like he does do some things.

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I think they do it about 2 or 3 times a year.

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They remind us he's the emissary and they do something with the

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idea of it.

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Like earlier in the season, we had Starship Down where Kira was

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trying to keep him alive and that's the emissary.

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That I love that line where he gives the blessing in sort of space

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language and then the smiling venet comes out to him and says, hmm

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your accent's getting better.

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That's properly funny because it just means that's when he did it

250
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:02.340
before.

251
00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:05.039
It used to be shit.

252
00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:08.399
He's really bad at it, which I think is really properly good.

253
00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:12.059
I like dark saying, oh, I think I quite like it, you know, being

254
00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:15.360
the revered religious icon to this people.

255
00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.519
That's a great Dax line.

256
00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:20.039
And look at this, like this beautiful thing which we saw from

257
00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:20.759
Explorer.

258
00:12:20.820 --> 00:12:22.799
It's a Bajoran lightship. yeah.

259
00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:25.860
And it is CG. but it's different isn't it?

260
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:27.539
You know, it's wonderful.

261
00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:29.159
Not the sort of thing we normally see.

262
00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:30.539
Yeah, yeah.

263
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.000
I think that was a beautiful design and a great idea.

264
00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:37.799
And massive tick for setting up the premise of the episode in the

265
00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:40.139
teaser because he says, right, yeah, doesn't he?

266
00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.600
I'm the emissary and we're like, oh, eh?

267
00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:46.620
Well this is awkward.

268
00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:48.720
We've got 2 emissaries here.

269
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.879
Now, I, my one, look at the late about this episode.

270
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:55.200
They did quite a good job there.

271
00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:55.919
I have to say.

272
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:57.539
No, no judgering or stuttering.

273
00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.539
They do start making jokes about that, you know, in later

274
00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:00.960
seasons.

275
00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:08.039
Yeah, it breaks down there for climb out of it, yeah. is I just

276
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:09.960
don't like Kira's look in series four.

277
00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:13.679
I don't like the overtly spray on uniform they've given.

278
00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:16.379
They've tried to sex her up a little bit and they do pull back

279
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:18.120
from it in series 5 onwards.

280
00:13:18.179 --> 00:13:21.419
They sort of go, maybe that was a bit much.

281
00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:23.340
They've tried to make her very shapely.

282
00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:28.019
Whereas before she was, she was sort of a bit boxy looking, wasn't

283
00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:28.799
she, in her uniform?

284
00:13:28.860 --> 00:13:31.860
Well, I mean, we did see that just then because the young woman

285
00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:34.559
who was getting a blessing from Benjamin was wearing the same

286
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.799
uniform, only the non-sexy main character version.

287
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.159
Like the, you know, like her series one, 2 uniform.

288
00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:43.139
It is a thing that Star Trek does.

289
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.620
I mean, obviously 7 and, you know, Kess, they start to dress Kess

290
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:47.399
sex.

291
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:49.799
I mean, don't get me wrong, she's got it. 3 or 4 years.

292
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:51.059
She's got it.

293
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.559
She can sell the uniform.

294
00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:53.820
But I don't know.

295
00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.759
I like her being a bit more androgynous, actually.

296
00:13:56.820 --> 00:13:58.379
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

297
00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:03.600
But it's it's in a novice, it are, so she can overcome any look to

298
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.039
deliver a fantastic...

299
00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:06.299
She does get some worse looks.

300
00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.360
I'm not sure I like her fluffy hair in this episode either, to be

301
00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:09.659
honest.

302
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.279
Well, that's the whole look for series four.

303
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:12.779
That's on the, yeah.

304
00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.559
I mean, my favourite is your least favourite and that's seven.

305
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:18.179
I like the hair that falls down her face.

306
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:23.220
Yeah, she, I, she kind of has like angry American lady here in the

307
00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:26.399
1st in the 1st season, like when you 1st made her.

308
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.419
A sort of butch business lesbian, isn't it?

309
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.159
I thought she looks like in the emissary.

310
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:34.259
That would have been good.

311
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:39.720
I don't think it's quite as good as that Now, I was shaking this

312
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:39.960
episode?

313
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:41.940
No, he just always gets a credit.

314
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:46.799
He always gets a credit, but he's not in this one.

315
00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:49.259
There's my favourite little man, look, kicking his way through to

316
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:50.580
the pilot.

317
00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:52.200
I wonder what he's doing.

318
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.100
Replacing the plating or something like that. don't know.

319
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.580
You know, that would be the most the most exciting thing you could

320
00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:02.159
do would be to walk on the edge of Deep Space now, wouldn't it?

321
00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:05.700
Yeah, be great. a little bit, but not very often, do it, no?

322
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.299
If we were making it now, we'd be up to that sort of thing. all at

323
00:15:09.299 --> 00:15:10.259
the time. you know?

324
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.440
I think I think we stand on discovery quite a few times.

325
00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:15.000
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

326
00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:18.179
Well, there's crazy shit's going on in the atmosphere around

327
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:18.360
them.

328
00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:21.120
Well, that last episode of Discovery, remember, with the with the

329
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:25.860
bee, with Michael flying that tiny shuttle thing, the tiny...

330
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:27.000
Jesus, yeah, yeah.

331
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:28.740
This is a little glacial compared to that.

332
00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:31.980
But my preference, if I'm honest.

333
00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.820
Now, can I talk about the actor playing a Korum Lant, whose name

334
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:36.539
I've forgotten?

335
00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:38.340
Richard Libertini.

336
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.600
I think he's very good, and I think he's very understated, and he

337
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:46.200
only really raises his voice at pertinent moments, which I really

338
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:49.019
like because he doesn't feel the need to shout to make his

339
00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:49.259
points.

340
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:54.899
Ira Bear wanted David Warner, and David Warner wasn't available

341
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:58.620
and I don't know if David Warner would have sold this role in the

342
00:15:58.620 --> 00:15:59.639
way that this man does.

343
00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:03.360
Because David Warner is quite a theatrical actor go, watch chain

344
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:04.259
of command, you know?

345
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:10.080
And I think it would have maybe unbalanced the episode a little

346
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.320
bit in that where you're always looking at David Warner.

347
00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:19.740
Except the thing is that you want him to be a plausible

348
00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:21.840
alternative emissary.

349
00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:23.100
Do you know what I mean?

350
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:27.299
And it's like it's David Warner up against Avery Avery Broads.

351
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:28.139
Which would have been great.

352
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:30.240
Yeah, yeah, which would have been great.

353
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:35.159
He was on holiday and his then wife said he didn't want him to do

354
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:35.340
it.

355
00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.159
No more Star Trek, David, honestly.

356
00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:38.940
Come on now.

357
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.440
Big finisher on the line.

358
00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:41.399
Do that instead.

359
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.200
But no, I do I do think he's good though.

360
00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:48.960
I don't think this is a bad performance at all.

361
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.559
Because he never once feels like a villain.

362
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:57.299
He just feels like a man out of time, whose principles are from

363
00:16:57.299 --> 00:17:00.720
200 years in the past, who hasn't gone from, I mean, the line

364
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.059
where he says, Beja was occupied.

365
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.500
I love this.

366
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.259
Look at look at how Kira reacts.

367
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:12.180
So what we've just learned is that 200 years have passed for him

368
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:16.140
and he says, my wife and child have gone, and she just comes and

369
00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:21.900
sits with him, which is so beautiful, and then learns this.

370
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.000
It's a Korum Lan.

371
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:25.500
And I wasn't expecting that.

372
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:30.299
I'd forgotten that twist that he's like Shakespeare or someone, you

373
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:32.519
know, someone everyone reads.

374
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:37.500
You know, like is a writer, a poet, and a spiritual person.

375
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:42.299
You know, you've never finished the last stanza. that poem.

376
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:44.819
That's so... the payoff is good. get there.

377
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.640
Yeah, let's talk about that when we get there, but I think that's

378
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:48.480
a magnificent moment.

379
00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:53.099
I think part of the shame about it, though. is this revered guy

380
00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:57.420
who comes back, is emissary for a few weeks, fucks it up, like

381
00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:00.180
absolutely publicly in the worst possible way.

382
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.940
And then they kind of go, let's send him back.

383
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.460
Let's send it back in time because he's really shit here right

384
00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:05.819
now.

385
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.759
And then he gets to live his life sort of further and stuff.

386
00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:10.619
Well, you think about it now.

387
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:11.579
Think about it now, yeah.

388
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:12.240
It happening.

389
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:15.359
Someone from 200 years in the past, coming to now, who is

390
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:19.680
immediately revered as a public figure, put into high office, and

391
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:21.779
this is, right, we're going to make things like there were 200

392
00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:22.259
years ago.

393
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.480
Jesus Christ, the Christians would be delighted, you know?

394
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:25.740
Yeah.

395
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.180
It would be appalling.

396
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.920
So what I think is really interesting too is how gradually we

397
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.019
learn about what the dejaras are.

398
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:39.539
And initially it just looks like, initially it just looks like, so

399
00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:43.500
they do use the word cast, like a caste system.

400
00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:45.119
Cast-based system, yeah.

401
00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:49.619
And how that leans into the premise of the show of Cisco being

402
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:54.420
there to have made your join, the Federation, and the consequences

403
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:57.539
that if the car system goes ahead, then that will never happen.

404
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.299
So it's threatening the premise of the show as well.

405
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:01.500
There's states.

406
00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:03.240
There's real state here. really good.

407
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.759
But initially it just looks like, you know, she's doing the wrong

408
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:11.700
job, but it gradually becomes clear as well that the casts are

409
00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:12.480
ranked.

410
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:13.859
Do you know what I mean?

411
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.619
And that people have to be differential to people from superior

412
00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:17.099
castes.

413
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:21.119
And then, of course, it ends up in a murder, like a religious

414
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:21.539
murder.

415
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:26.400
I think the scene in the cafe where she goes, please, have my C.

416
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:28.680
That makes the point better than the murder.

417
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:29.579
The murder's a bit obvious.

418
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:30.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

419
00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:33.119
No, but it escalates to that point, which is great.

420
00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:37.079
But there's also a scene where Accorum and Porter are there sort

421
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.259
of smiling talking about the way that there will have to be legal

422
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:43.920
enforcement following the Dejaras as well.

423
00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:46.980
And I like how they say we're not going to do this immediately

424
00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:47.279
obviously.

425
00:19:47.339 --> 00:19:48.900
And he goes, well, what about Shikali?

426
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:49.619
a farmer.

427
00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:51.000
Like, he goes, yeah, that's fine.

428
00:19:51.059 --> 00:19:52.259
We won't force him out of office.

429
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.920
He goes, but by the time this system's in place, no one's going to

430
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:57.839
vote for a farmer, to be a politician.

431
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.619
This here, you could just see the producers going, oh, my God

432
00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:03.839
they're referring to emissary. they're referring to this.

433
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:06.779
How are we going to syndicate this?

434
00:20:07.259 --> 00:20:12.720
Yeah, they so again, the memory alpha article says that that

435
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.319
generally Bajoran religion didn't go down well with the finds and

436
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:17.519
that they didn't like.

437
00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:21.779
I mean, that's ridiculous, I think, because most of the time

438
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.119
you've got Louise Fletcher in those episodes and she's

439
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:25.019
magnificent.

440
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:28.140
Interestingly, they're the ones that have aged really well and are

441
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:29.279
quite popular now.

442
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:30.299
Now.

443
00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:31.019
Yeah.

444
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:34.680
I just think people just wanted more Voyager more next gen at the

445
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:34.859
time.

446
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:35.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

447
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.039
Now they're seeing a show that's doing something different and

448
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:38.940
they're kind of pleased.

449
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:45.180
And and so and so I reckon I was conscious at the time.

450
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:46.680
I mean, I wasn't aware of that.

451
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:48.960
I wasn't reading any of the news or anything that the producers

452
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.960
were saying, but I was kind of aware of the fact that they were

453
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.799
downplaying the emissary thing, that it didn't play a big part in

454
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.740
the show, as if it was something they'd set up for the pilot and

455
00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:01.140
then thought, actually, we're probably not going to go with that.

456
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:05.700
Uh, and then she brings it in, like the show brings it back to

457
00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:09.240
life and she kind of writes that into the show where it's just

458
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:13.680
like, no, the producers are also known as Starfleet don't really

459
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.859
want it to be the other tree and kind of, you know.

460
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:18.779
And so I think that's really terrific.

461
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.359
That's very cuttering about Lauren that sucks as I would.

462
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:25.500
They never were happy about you being a...

463
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:26.819
She's like a choir.

464
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:29.039
A choir, broad choir.

465
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:30.660
It's just that one.

466
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.000
It's like the way that he talks about babies.

467
00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:34.799
This is our babies, aren't they adorable?

468
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:38.460
You know, everything that they pick up just goes immediately into

469
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:38.940
their ears.

470
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.119
This thing is so wonderful.

471
00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:43.680
Here comes the zinger.

472
00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:44.700
Have you heard?

473
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:46.440
Kako's gonna have a baby.

474
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:47.460
War walks in.

475
00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:48.119
Now?

476
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:54.059
Forgive me, I think I'll be away at that point visiting my

477
00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:54.359
parents.

478
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:57.839
It's 7 months time he's going to be visiting his parents on earth

479
00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:59.160
as far away as possible.

480
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.740
It is sick, but I do feel like real people.

481
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:04.500
It's just fake.

482
00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:10.859
I think what I want this to be is that Jana Spenson, like me, loved

483
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:12.539
disaster.

484
00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:16.740
And, you know, that particular plotting disaster, which works

485
00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:20.759
which just rely so heavily on how brilliant Michael and Rosalind

486
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:21.779
both are in it.

487
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.119
Like they're both so funny in that.

488
00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:25.980
And that scene is so memorable.

489
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.259
It's wonderful to have that referred to again.

490
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:31.500
I love how they wind up wharf, and then they just turn to the bowl

491
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:32.460
chuckling at each other.

492
00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:35.759
It's what I do with my mates.

493
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:37.559
I just believe these people, you know?

494
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:43.619
Even like I was watching this and just thinking, man, I could do

495
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:44.160
with a beer.

496
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:47.579
You know, like just that thing where, you know, they're coming in

497
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:50.819
after work, they're having a pint, you know, like just earth, beer

498
00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:52.019
just looks great.

499
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.599
I was watching them though. something miserable.

500
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.720
Because Sid has a sip.

501
00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:02.220
But Column just puts it to his mouth and then as a liar, puts it

502
00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:02.759
to his mouth.

503
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:03.539
He never drink.

504
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.299
And then in a scene later, he does have a drink, you know.

505
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.660
He must have known that's been sitting there warm for hours while

506
00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:11.099
they've been shooting this scene, you know.

507
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:13.500
But Sid's method, he goes all the way.

508
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:18.599
Although, Joe, and another bit later, which again just feels like

509
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.200
real people, when he goes, he goes, oh, I've been playing dance

510
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.279
with more, and he couldn't hit a Eurydian yak from 2 paces.

511
00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:29.519
And he goes, I've been playing with Molly and she, you know, uses

512
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.140
magnets with her darts.

513
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:34.259
I thought to myself, God, that's like me and Nathan.

514
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.660
Oh, yeah, I've been podcasting with so-and-so, oh, yeah.

515
00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:38.400
So have I. yeah.

516
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:39.539
Oh, thank God, we're back together.

517
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.319
Yay.

518
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:43.980
Sorry, I didn't mean that.

519
00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:47.519
Oh, this scene.

520
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:51.299
Now, will you please look at how many extras there are about the

521
00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:51.599
place?

522
00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:52.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

523
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.660
They've got about 500 extras about the promenades, including one

524
00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:00.240
guy with a very big prosthetic head that they keeping in the

525
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:00.599
background.

526
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.059
They all put in these sort of red and brown uniforms.

527
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.019
Yeah.

528
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:05.519
Oh yeah, look at that alien.

529
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:06.779
Who the hell was that?

530
00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:07.859
Yeah, yeah.

531
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.440
So, so I, I think this is kind of interesting as well.

532
00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:15.660
It's a little bit basic, to be honest.

533
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:17.160
And it's sort of early on.

534
00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:19.680
They're not really in a relationship or anything like that.

535
00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:21.299
I love the line, though.

536
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:22.140
I love the line.

537
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.339
He's questioning her faith.

538
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:23.759
Yeah.

539
00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:28.259
It is something I've had conversations with Christian friends with

540
00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:28.680
before.

541
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:32.640
Like, well, how can you believe that and that's such a

542
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.299
contradiction?

543
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:35.700
And they just go, well, it's just faith, you know?

544
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:39.180
Well, that's a very catch all answer for anything that doesn't

545
00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:39.420
make sense.

546
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:46.500
But, you know, like there's something, like, this is not an

547
00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:50.039
episode that's about how great faith is, though, necessarily, is

548
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:50.220
it?

549
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:55.500
Because this is the religion, you know, from 200 years ago raising

550
00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:56.579
its ugly head.

551
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.480
Um, and yeah, making everyone...

552
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.779
His motive for doing it is not bad.

553
00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:08.220
He wants to, he wants to heal the wounds of the, by returning them

554
00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:11.880
to a point where they were at peace, where this was the norm

555
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:14.220
before that shit with the Kardashians went down.

556
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:14.940
So I get it.

557
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.019
I understand the motive.

558
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:19.740
It's just like, unfortunately, you can't win back time. you know

559
00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:20.579
we've moved on.

560
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.140
Yeah, but he sees them as lost that it's an injury that's been

561
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:26.880
done to their culture.

562
00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:29.099
And, you know, it's ever been mentioned before.

563
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.099
We don't know this about the Bajorans, but the Bajorans are, you

564
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:33.480
know, a bit of a blank slate.

565
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:37.980
And like I think that that works really well.

566
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:42.359
I think Cisco's reaction and her reaction, look at her.

567
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.900
Her reaction is complete, so she starts clapping, but it's a very

568
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:48.420
faltering clap because she knows she's going to have to give up

569
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:48.779
her job.

570
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.259
If this is enforced, she is going to have to do something that she

571
00:25:52.259 --> 00:25:53.819
has no aptitude to do what.

572
00:25:53.819 --> 00:25:56.279
And we will say that later in the episode.

573
00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:00.299
But it's not just I'm going to have to be an artist and I'm a

574
00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:01.079
shitty artist.

575
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:07.619
These people are now going to say what I can do as a job.

576
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:09.059
Do you know what I mean?

577
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:10.740
These people will control my life.

578
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:14.700
The two, but you're on women in uniforms in the crowd, giving each

579
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:16.319
other a look of like...

580
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:17.819
The characters we've never seen before.

581
00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:20.519
And we'll never see again, but it's like they're looking at each

582
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:22.619
other like, what the hell does this mean for us?

583
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.599
And Avery's reaction as well, which we go to the credits on, which

584
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.180
the commercial break on is really great.

585
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.839
I think all the Star Trek fans, you know, watching this now, you

586
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.759
know, the ones that love the space problems and all this.

587
00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:38.519
I sort of breathing a sigh of relief because we're in a Star Trek

588
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.440
y style set now, you know, the wardrobe.

589
00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:43.500
But yeah, yeah, you went to the United Federation of Planet Sing.

590
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:49.200
But also, you know, like the, like one of the things that Star

591
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.279
Trek does is it sets up a cultural problem, do you know what I

592
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.920
mean, a society that's organised in a particular way?

593
00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:59.160
And normally we go to a planet and find it, you know, we go to the

594
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:01.680
planet where everyone has to follow their jars and stuff like

595
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:01.920
that.

596
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:06.000
And whatever conflict arises from having a religion that's

597
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.119
coercive and that runs every aspect of people's lives.

598
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:11.039
But here it's being done in a place.

599
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:13.980
Like look at this fucker, this awful, isn't it?

600
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:14.819
guy on the left.

601
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.920
I've been waiting for this moment.

602
00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:19.619
He's sort of there going, yeah, to take control.

603
00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:24.660
I'm a little man, a little religious man. supporting people like

604
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:26.579
will deport people who don't do it.

605
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.500
Um, yeah.

606
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:32.160
Yeah, so this is very Star Trek, like traditional Star Trek, this

607
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.839
thing, but because it's located in a place that we know, and

608
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.299
because it's affecting our regular characters because they live

609
00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:39.599
here.

610
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:41.819
And the premise of the show.

611
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:43.799
And the premise of the show, you know?

612
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:46.859
Like, Cisco has no need to be here if...

613
00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:50.099
If Bajor is not going to join the Federation, you know?

614
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.460
Or maybe sort of, I don't know, political friendliness.

615
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:53.940
Who knows?

616
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.400
I love the line about win as well.

617
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:58.380
There's just a little line about...

618
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:00.900
Because I think Wynn is all missing from this.

619
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.680
She's doing a movie, you know, she's getting 5 times this salary

620
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.779
somewhere else. because she's so fabulous.

621
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:07.920
And he goes, yeah.

622
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:12.299
I've had a word with Kai Wynn about this and she agrees and we're

623
00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:15.240
going to reinforce it all and Cisco goes, yeah, somehow our fall

624
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:16.859
win would see it that way.

625
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.160
Or something like that, you know. a little reminder of how much

626
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:21.240
they hate each other.

627
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:24.720
Oh, with all this grabbing of the ears.

628
00:28:24.779 --> 00:28:26.940
Yeah, it's a bit sexy, really.

629
00:28:27.059 --> 00:28:30.660
Um, I mean, I would grab that Avery Brooks.

630
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking.

631
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:34.740
Any chance to stroke his face.

632
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:37.319
Me and Penny Johnson, Gerald, are one.

633
00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:44.220
That's a nice line as well, because it's exactly what Kai Baka did

634
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:45.059
to him in the emissary.

635
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.599
She said your power is strong, you know, and then he says, I can

636
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.279
see why she thought you were the emissary.

637
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:51.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

638
00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:52.319
Yeah.

639
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:55.019
Oh, and now we get her, don't we?

640
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:56.160
Is she in the scene?

641
00:28:56.940 --> 00:28:58.740
No, not quite.

642
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:00.660
He's not tossing in his sleep yet.

643
00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:04.559
Oh, no, this is the scene where we've got the woman who's being

644
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.500
deferential because she's in the wrong cast.

645
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.619
This is why we need all these extras, isn't it, in this episode?

646
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.559
There's a lot of crowd things. stands for her.

647
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.640
Yeah, and Kira's just like, I don't understand.

648
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:18.839
You're not finished.

649
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:20.880
No, no, no.

650
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:21.900
I'm Ivala.

651
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:24.599
Oh, God, I can't even say it or whatever.

652
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:25.799
I'm space thing.

653
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:29.160
They have they have apostrophes in them, which is what you want.

654
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:31.740
It's one of those times, because there are some times where I

655
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:35.039
think the Bajorans come across as remarkably naive in DS Night

656
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:38.039
they do these sort of sweeping changes and everyone just sort of

657
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:38.700
takes it on board.

658
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.339
This is one time where I get it though.

659
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:43.440
I get why they're all trying.

660
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:47.519
Because, again, again, they are trying to heal wounds.

661
00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:49.859
You know, they've been doing this from the start of DS9.

662
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:55.500
But again, this scene, it's good, isn't it?

663
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:58.259
Where is this the one where she...

664
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:00.059
No, it's not yet.

665
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:00.839
It's not yet.

666
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.019
The one where she talks about the other guy who's going to replace

667
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:04.319
her.

668
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.539
But that's coming later.

669
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:07.440
Yeah.

670
00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:12.900
Avery just absolutely does a blinder of a line in that scene.

671
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:17.519
It moves me every time I hear it because I remember you and me

672
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.240
watching like progress and season one episodes where we were

673
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:25.200
watching this relationship between Kira and Cisco form and it was

674
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.200
a tricky transition, she thought they were the enemy.

675
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:30.839
She didn't want to be the administrator for these people at the

676
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:32.460
Federation coming and telling them what to do.

677
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:35.099
And she's totally like on board now.

678
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.019
They've formed a relationship.

679
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.000
They're close. earlier in the season.

680
00:30:39.059 --> 00:30:42.059
We saw her get over the emissary thing and go to a baseball match

681
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:44.220
with him and they're friends now, you know?

682
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.059
And now she's being asked to go and do this thing away from him.

683
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:50.940
And they're both devastated that they're not going to work

684
00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:51.359
together anymore.

685
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:55.200
Well, I mean, that scene there too, where she says, you know, you

686
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.920
could have said anything and we would have done it, that like he

687
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.519
didn't fully realise how important the emissary was and perhaps

688
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:06.660
didn't really quite realise how she regarded him too.

689
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:08.940
What is he doing?

690
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.079
Toss it in that bed lot.

691
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.059
I know, tossing restlessly.

692
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.240
Sweating. at that.

693
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:20.339
I mean, whenever we do these, either dream sequences or as later

694
00:31:20.339 --> 00:31:23.579
in the episode into the wormhole with the profits, it does give

695
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:25.740
them a chance to sort of play about with the light and then the

696
00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:26.880
angles a bit, you know?

697
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:29.880
I actually, yeah, I quite like how this is done.

698
00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:33.240
Um, so he thinks he hears something.

699
00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.839
He keeps moving, and then the lights all go down.

700
00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:39.420
It wasn't a very...

701
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:41.220
Oh, no, it was nothing hard. that panel.

702
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.400
So he walks behind the panel and then when he comes out, the

703
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.119
lights are down.

704
00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:45.720
It's pretty good.

705
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:48.839
There's no cart, but suddenly the lights are down when he emerges

706
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:49.440
from behind it.

707
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:54.900
I think the woman who play a Camille Saviola.

708
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.400
She's a great actress.

709
00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:58.140
She's really good isn't she?

710
00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.640
She gets a handful of lions.

711
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:01.859
How can I know somebody who doesn't know himself?

712
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:03.900
She goes...

713
00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:05.940
It's great, isn't it?

714
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.799
Again, it's being written by someone who just intimately knows the

715
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.240
show, like has made it her business to know the show and she

716
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:16.380
brings something new.

717
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:22.500
So this thing, which is called an orb shadow, um, you know, uh

718
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:25.319
hasn't been mentioned before, probably won't be mentioned again

719
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:29.220
but is consistent with, you know, what we've seen and what we know

720
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:30.599
about Bajor.

721
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:35.039
And I just think bringing her back, bringing Camille back for just

722
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.119
that little scene.

723
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:39.839
Oh, she's back later, obviously, as a wormhole alien as well.

724
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.140
Um, is so good.

725
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.579
It's so good.

726
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:48.960
And because the thing is with O Parker was just absolutely fucking

727
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.859
brilliant and they just burn her like she's gone by episode 2 or 3

728
00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:53.700
or something.

729
00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:56.279
No, it's, it's, uh, it's about 10.

730
00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:57.359
It's about 10. yeah.

731
00:32:57.420 --> 00:33:00.240
So they do wait a little bit, but it's only a 2nd appearance.

732
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:03.180
And she's like, oh, please, take me through the wormhole.

733
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:04.079
I want to experience it.

734
00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:05.099
And then they crash.

735
00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:08.099
And then she's stuck on that awful planet, you know, with those 2

736
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:13.019
rival factions and she's killed and Kira's absolutely devastated

737
00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:13.259
obviously.

738
00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:16.019
But it did give us win.

739
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.759
Oh, boy.

740
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:23.339
So Kira here is making her flockless claybirds.

741
00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:26.519
It's all in silence as well, isn't it?

742
00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.799
They trust Nanar to do this.

743
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.880
So she smashes the one she's making.

744
00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:36.599
She sits down, looks at this giant flock of them that it turns out

745
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:37.619
she's been making.

746
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:42.000
She stares at one of them and then she just picks her hand up and

747
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.539
smashes the head off.

748
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.160
Do you know enough?

749
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:51.059
I have no artistic aptitude whatsoever, but even I'm better than

750
00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:51.299
this.

751
00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:52.980
Jesus Christ.

752
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:56.640
Again, how rare is it?

753
00:33:56.700 --> 00:33:58.319
Like, that was obvious?

754
00:33:58.380 --> 00:33:59.400
Do you know what I mean?

755
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:01.319
Like, it was very clear what she was thinking and what she was

756
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:01.740
feeling.

757
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.579
But it's so rare for a Star Trek character, even in Deep Space now

758
00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:08.039
not to just tell us how they feel.

759
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:11.880
And so to have a scene with no dialogue where we just get an actor

760
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:15.539
to show us how someone feels, is so refreshing to this stupid

761
00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:15.960
show.

762
00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:17.400
Oh, so good.

763
00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:19.980
And, you know, we'd already had that with the hand clap scene

764
00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:20.159
right?

765
00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:22.380
Yeah, so they're doing it quite.

766
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:24.840
I've just seen maybe Jane Spenson just trusts the actors.

767
00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:26.219
It's Jane Spenson.

768
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:27.539
She's a better writer.

769
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.800
Well, and she finds a way of getting the actors to convey emotion

770
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.219
without having them just blurt out, you know, like.

771
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:36.539
Have you ever seen what she does on Twitter?

772
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:37.800
is so great.

773
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:39.900
She is writing stin.

774
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:41.579
Yeah, right in sprints.

775
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.079
So it's an hour of writing.

776
00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:45.300
She goes, everyone, right in sprint, go.

777
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.400
And no one's allowed back on social media for an hour.

778
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:50.880
Go be creative and then, well, come back and we'll talk about it.

779
00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:52.500
Really, isn't it?

780
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:53.099
She's great.

781
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:53.880
She's really good.

782
00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:55.199
Oh, here she is, look.

783
00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:58.260
Molly the DV. is adorably cute.

784
00:34:58.380 --> 00:35:00.300
I'm kind of a ring.

785
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.699
Yeah, I think that's so good.

786
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.539
It's so good Like, I actually quite like how both her and Miles

787
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:12.599
were having fun doing the, doing the, um, pulls out that enormous

788
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.380
stupid costume that he's got for when he's Brian Baru and goes

789
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:16.920
Miles.

790
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:24.480
Oh, it's lovely to have a long-term couple on Star Trek, isn't

791
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:24.599
it?

792
00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:26.159
It just, it's just nice.

793
00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:29.219
Stop, stop, stop, try for twins.

794
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.440
I think funny line as well.

795
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:32.519
I don't think it works that way.

796
00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:34.619
Irishman, honestly.

797
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.719
Oh, no, that's his wife.

798
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:37.260
It's all right.

799
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:41.280
Uh, that is, I grew a pony.

800
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:42.780
I think she's so funny.

801
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.219
Tell me a story.

802
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:45.960
If that was me, right?

803
00:35:46.019 --> 00:35:48.659
You know me in my opinion of children, I'd have given her a D

804
00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:49.139
minus.

805
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:50.099
I said go do it again.

806
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.219
Oh, no, I think she's feeling funny.

807
00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:54.000
All right, no.

808
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:58.320
Tate is the most stunning, beautiful.

809
00:35:58.380 --> 00:35:58.860
Just beautiful.

810
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:00.900
And so happy to have been in it.

811
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:01.739
She's so proud.

812
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:06.000
She's in the documentary going, my God, the peak of my career.

813
00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:09.539
Rumple of self skimp, you know?

814
00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:19.619
She's so cute. where he wants to play dance with her and she goes

815
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:25.139
I'm coming, you know, like it's like, and he looks at the costume

816
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:26.460
and no dialogue.

817
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:28.199
We know exactly what he's thinking, though, right?

818
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:34.500
And that was good too, because the costume, like it also is not

819
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:38.340
just playing the I'd like to be with Julian roll.

820
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.460
And look, she sees it as well and doesn't say anything.

821
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:47.460
And her bringing it into the scene also shows that she's aware of

822
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:48.420
the Julian thing.

823
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.699
Stop trusting the actors, honestly.

824
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:51.840
What's going on?

825
00:36:51.900 --> 00:36:54.900
Although, you know, Nathan, we've all had that moment, right?

826
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.679
You and me. obviously we're both in relationships, but we're both

827
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:01.260
sitting there longingly going, oh, I just want to go and talk

828
00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:02.579
about Star Trek with Nathan.

829
00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:04.619
Yeah, that's right.

830
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:09.000
That's right Much better than this mundane, you know, normal shit

831
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:09.840
I'm going through.

832
00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:11.219
Jesus, crazy.

833
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:13.679
Oh, no, here we go.

834
00:37:13.739 --> 00:37:16.019
This is this is one of my favourite scenes of the episode.

835
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.900
And it's because it's so understated.

836
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:24.360
Like they're both holding back tears because they're really sad at

837
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.780
the fact that she's made the call. that she's gonna go to Bajor.

838
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.260
She's going to be an artist, and they love working together, and

839
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:32.519
it's just not going to be the guy.

840
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:37.139
This stresses the family thing without the Janeway going, we're

841
00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:38.219
our family, you know?

842
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:39.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

843
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:42.719
No, I think it's, like, I just think it's really good.

844
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:45.659
Again, you know, this isn't complex.

845
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:47.519
You know, it's not super literary.

846
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:54.239
It's just very competent and well done and it exceeds the level

847
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.099
that Star Trek normally reaches, I think.

848
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:00.179
You're not sure. have to be complex to be relatable, though.

849
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:01.559
No, no, no.

850
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.139
But it's it's just that thing.

851
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:08.760
It's just doing basic stuff that conveys how the characters are

852
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.719
feeling without them telling us.

853
00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:11.579
But that's cool. joy of this.

854
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:12.539
The joy of the show.

855
00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:15.300
I'll say it a 1000000 times, yeah, all the groundwork they've done

856
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:18.960
in the 1st 4 years with these characters, all the history that

857
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:21.780
they have in this stationary setting where they've built

858
00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:22.500
relationships.

859
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:24.179
This all pays off now.

860
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.159
This is why you do it.

861
00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:28.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

862
00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.659
You know, and it's a roll from here to seven.

863
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:34.380
It's just a roll of payoff, you know, of putting them in complex

864
00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:36.960
situations and watching those characters react.

865
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.380
Yeah, look at this.

866
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:43.079
Look at him.

867
00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:45.539
Yeah, he's doing the Beverly thing with a console.

868
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:51.119
I've never wanted to be a console more.

869
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:55.800
Sorry, it's a lovely moment.

870
00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:57.659
Why am I choosing this moment to be rude?

871
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.860
Yeah, it's good, isn't it?

872
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:03.719
This is something I have to do.

873
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:06.360
Oh, look, look, look, look, look.

874
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.079
She's about to cry.

875
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:10.320
But she's just, she just, she sniffs it back.

876
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:11.159
She's like, no.

877
00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:11.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

878
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.219
Because she has to do it and she doesn't want to make him feel bad

879
00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:14.880
either.

880
00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:17.460
She even says, you know, I don't want to add to your problems.

881
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:21.360
And obviously, like, this is, you knew where this line was going.

882
00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:23.340
But it's nice.

883
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:25.559
Like, it's wonderful to hear him say it.

884
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:28.199
He has such warmth in his voice. doesn't he?

885
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:29.639
And look at her reaction.

886
00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:30.420
Look at her reaction.

887
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:32.219
Oh, dear.

888
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:37.559
When you have him come away from all the Star Trek bollocks, the

889
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:40.380
Technobabble and all of this and just let him be a person.

890
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:45.480
I don't think there's another actor like Avery Books in in 90s

891
00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:45.780
track.

892
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:50.039
Even his understated reaction shot there to Kira, who was just

893
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:51.300
magnificent, I think.

894
00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:53.760
Like that was really good as well.

895
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:54.719
Like he's stricken.

896
00:39:54.780 --> 00:39:56.579
He's not tearing up the way that she was.

897
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:57.900
Here we go.

898
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.420
Can you imagine, no, right?

899
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.460
I did say to you in a message.

900
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.639
Can you imagine those that only come to Star Trek for strange new

901
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.800
worlds and civilisations watching this?

902
00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:09.420
That'd be appalled, wouldn't they?

903
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:11.579
Well, I don't know, though.

904
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:15.539
I know, because I think, I do think that, like I said, I do think

905
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:19.440
that the central, like the A plot is an absolute traditional Star

906
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:25.079
Trek plot, um, except that it involves our characters much more, uh

907
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:27.119
because they belong here.

908
00:40:27.179 --> 00:40:31.679
You know, we're not just sort of scooting in for 45 minutes to

909
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.619
observe this sort of social problem or anything like that.

910
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:38.760
I mean, do you remember when Roddenberry didn't want family after

911
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:39.659
best of both worlds?

912
00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:40.739
Do you remember that?

913
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:41.579
Yeah, yeah.

914
00:40:41.579 --> 00:40:43.800
I mean, it was, no, no, let's move on.

915
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:45.000
We can't have con...

916
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:46.500
I mean, look how far we've come.

917
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.380
This is just embedded in the series this, isn't it?

918
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:51.179
Well, it's embedded in television.

919
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.320
Do you know what I mean?

920
00:40:52.380 --> 00:40:54.300
Like the weekly procedural thing.

921
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:58.079
Like, it's still a thing, but the characters remember previous

922
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.619
ones and they progress and change as a result of them.

923
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:03.420
That's just how TV works now.

924
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:04.800
It demands some commitment.

925
00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:07.380
Revolutionary acts, the characters remember.

926
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

927
00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:09.179
Yeah.

928
00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:11.039
Oh, he goes, come on.

929
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:13.980
The Battle of Britain awaits court goats.

930
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:16.019
Who was it?

931
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.480
and probably doesn't even know where England is.

932
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:23.579
We've all had this moment as well, where we're like, oh, I really

933
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:25.800
want to hang out with my mates, but I've got to go home.

934
00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:27.179
Yeah.

935
00:41:27.179 --> 00:41:30.420
It's my turn to make dinner tonight and I'm a terrible cook.

936
00:41:31.380 --> 00:41:34.800
Well, you just have to say something into the replicator.

937
00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:36.900
Imagine morning or spitfire.

938
00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:40.019
Please, why didn't you show us that?

939
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:41.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

940
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:44.940
Well, to be fair, we didn't even see them in a spitfire.

941
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.960
Oh, it might be my favourite running joke born, you know, in all

942
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:49.679
of Star Trek.

943
00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:55.260
Totally accidental, like most things on DS 9. but yeah.

944
00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:00.119
Ah, damn, quartz, like, well, I've got the holosuite 3 and I'm not

945
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:01.079
giving them a refund.

946
00:42:01.139 --> 00:42:01.440
Great.

947
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.800
That's right Oh, no.

948
00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:06.480
Odo's very casual.

949
00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:09.059
He goes, you better come down to the promenade. someone's been

950
00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:09.239
killed.

951
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.440
Is that always been killed?

952
00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:11.219
Yeah, I thought so too.

953
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:12.599
No, okay.

954
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:13.139
Oh, God.

955
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.199
Did they fall off that bloody balcony?

956
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:17.760
Can we remove that balcony, please?

957
00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:18.780
That's right.

958
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:20.219
Can we put a higher railing on?

959
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:22.619
People keep hanging themselves off here.

960
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.119
I mean, becoming a problem.

961
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:30.360
I do think the way the Vedic actor plays this scene is great

962
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:30.659
though.

963
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:32.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

964
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:35.880
Because he was quite genial before, like complimenting Cisco and

965
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.900
his accent earlier on, and now you can just see what a religious

966
00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:44.219
leader can be like, and we do know that from Louise Fletcher.

967
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:46.679
His Dejara was unclean.

968
00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:48.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

969
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:50.400
I think that's the thing that makes the point.

970
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:51.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

971
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:53.519
And utterly without remorse.

972
00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:56.519
And when he's taken away by a Bajoran security man, he looks

973
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:57.119
shocked.

974
00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:58.619
Like, what are you doing?

975
00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:00.960
Yeah.

976
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:01.860
Yeah.

977
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.000
Oh, and then this very casual scenery goes, oh, wow, I regret that

978
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:06.420
this happened.

979
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:11.340
Yeah, yeah, it's super interesting, isn't it?

980
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:14.460
It's really kind of interesting because the guy that the Vedek

981
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:15.900
kills was a priest.

982
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:21.300
Yeah, like, he was one of his fellow priests whom he killed for

983
00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:25.019
refusing to give up the priests.

984
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:26.880
Well, no, no, no, no, no, no.

985
00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:27.480
No, no.

986
00:43:27.539 --> 00:43:30.960
So, I mean, that's that's a thing, isn't it?

987
00:43:31.019 --> 00:43:37.739
Like people who handle dead bodies are unclean in all kinds of

988
00:43:37.739 --> 00:43:39.119
religious traditions.

989
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:45.360
Um, and so, it's not that he does that because he just belongs to

990
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.159
a Dejara, that traditionally does that.

991
00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:48.659
So he shouldn't be a priest.

992
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.840
He should be preparing dead bodies because he's unclean and that's

993
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.619
what he's fit for.

994
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:56.639
I bet he didn't think when he woke up that morning, he was going

995
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.960
to get shoved off that balcony.

996
00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:00.300
No, no.

997
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:01.079
Yeah.

998
00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:03.360
Yes.

999
00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:05.579
I think if we were making this now.

1000
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:10.739
I think this is one time where 90s trek being understated and less

1001
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:13.800
epic, actually works really well because I think if we were making

1002
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.340
this now, we'd go to like religious war or so, it would be big.

1003
00:44:17.340 --> 00:44:20.400
And I like the fact that this is quite contained.

1004
00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:21.900
It's, yeah.

1005
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:27.179
I mean, like, this is a giant social upheaval that starts and ends

1006
00:44:27.179 --> 00:44:29.519
within 45 minutes.

1007
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:30.659
With about 5 people.

1008
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.159
Yeah, that's right.

1009
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.039
So it is still very Star Treky.

1010
00:44:35.099 --> 00:44:37.980
And I think something like this would have to be handled over a

1011
00:44:37.980 --> 00:44:38.760
period of time.

1012
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:40.800
You know what I mean?

1013
00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:43.739
Like in a in the new series, you couldn't do something of this

1014
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:45.599
scale just in one episode.

1015
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:49.860
I suppose the point of the episode isn't that the jar is coming in

1016
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:52.380
the point of the episode is Cisco realising his place.

1017
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:53.519
Yeah.

1018
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:54.119
Yeah.

1019
00:44:54.179 --> 00:45:01.619
But I do think like Kira getting to experience... how coercive

1020
00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:03.659
religion can be is interesting.

1021
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:04.500
Do you know what I mean?

1022
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:09.000
She has a fairly naive view of it at the beginning and you've got

1023
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:13.019
you know, she's being questioned by Odo and she's very serenely

1024
00:45:13.019 --> 00:45:15.480
confident that it's just faith and it's all fine.

1025
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:21.119
And then she learns that, you know, also religion is men telling

1026
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:24.599
you how you're going to live your life, which I think is a thing

1027
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:25.739
that's worth remembering.

1028
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:31.139
Do you remember in the circle where the contradictions in her

1029
00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:35.519
belief about religion is there's a wonderful metaphor which she's

1030
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:39.900
making a stone path across a river and she goes, it's crooked.

1031
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:41.519
And he goes, yeah, it's crooked.

1032
00:45:41.579 --> 00:45:43.619
She goes, yeah, no, she goes, the stones are straight.

1033
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:45.000
I'm the one that's crooked.

1034
00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:46.559
It's so great.

1035
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:48.599
Oh here we go.

1036
00:45:48.659 --> 00:45:50.519
The profit filter is in action.

1037
00:45:50.579 --> 00:45:51.659
Yeah.

1038
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:58.559
So my favourite thing here is that he's making his case to be

1039
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:04.860
emissary by saying I was here 1st and he came to you later.

1040
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:08.039
And as I was listening to the dialogue, I was going, they're the

1041
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.980
prophets, they're not going to understand any of that.

1042
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:13.079
And that's exactly how they respond.

1043
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:16.380
Like again, she's so steeped in the show.

1044
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.260
We're basically doing a trial scene now, aren't we?

1045
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:22.559
you know, like the profits are going to decide, you know. yeah

1046
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:25.019
Which one of these 2 is the emissary?

1047
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.659
And I like the conclusions we draw.

1048
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:31.139
You know, it's like, you weren't committed to this.

1049
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:35.280
And so we did all of this, so you do, because frankly, we've seen

1050
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.739
what's going to happen in the future, and we need you to do this.

1051
00:46:38.340 --> 00:46:42.539
In fact, I think that, like, as Spenson has clearly watched the

1052
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:46.739
pilot again, like has watched emissary again. you know, in the way

1053
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:49.800
that you might do if you were going to write for the a show the

1054
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:54.119
1st time, and heaps of this stuff is drawn on and comments on

1055
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:55.679
emissary.

1056
00:46:55.739 --> 00:47:00.840
This is not our 1st time with the profits because we had them in

1057
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:02.519
the comedy.

1058
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:03.539
Profit motive, yeah.

1059
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:04.860
Yeah, profit motive.

1060
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:08.219
And that was the 1st time this is the next time they come back in

1061
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:12.059
a more serious role, but it is relitigating what the 1st season

1062
00:47:12.059 --> 00:47:12.960
does.

1063
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:16.739
Don't think we see them again now till Sacrifice of Angels.

1064
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:17.639
Okay.

1065
00:47:17.699 --> 00:47:19.380
Pivotal moment in the show.

1066
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:21.960
Is this the 1st time he's the Cisco?

1067
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:23.400
No, he's always the Cisco, isn't he?

1068
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:27.960
Watching this without the music and without hearing the

1069
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:31.139
performances, I'm just seeing all the regular actors doing this

1070
00:47:31.139 --> 00:47:34.679
sort of ethereal movement as they turn around, just kind of

1071
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:37.139
swaying.

1072
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:38.699
If this was brakes.

1073
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:41.699
Imagine that drone would be zooming about the place, wouldn't it?

1074
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.599
It would be vertiginous inside the wormhole.

1075
00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:50.699
But I really like the conclusion here that he's fucked up in a

1076
00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:52.380
major way.

1077
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.000
We don't want to kill him.

1078
00:47:54.059 --> 00:47:54.719
Do you know what I mean?

1079
00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:56.639
And we don't want to humiliate him either.

1080
00:47:56.699 --> 00:48:02.460
And so what they do is they return him to the past and he can't

1081
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:04.500
remember what happened to him.

1082
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:09.900
Uh, and it, so he's not aware that he's fucked up in this way.

1083
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.599
And he just gets him because his wife and family.

1084
00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:15.480
Exactly, to prove he's not a bad guy.

1085
00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:17.519
He goes, I can go back and be with my wife and family.

1086
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:18.719
Let's do it.

1087
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:22.559
Clearly, I'm not doing great work here in the future.

1088
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:24.960
Let's go. that's right Yeah, yeah.

1089
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:31.079
And then Cisco now sees the impact that if somebody in that role

1090
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:32.820
made the wrong moves.

1091
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:35.579
Like, he was keeping this thing in balance.

1092
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:36.960
Yeah.

1093
00:48:37.019 --> 00:48:37.739
Yeah.

1094
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:39.119
It's really great.

1095
00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:41.820
So the thing that's keeping it imbalances.

1096
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:45.179
He doesn't know the power that he has like he does now, but he

1097
00:48:45.179 --> 00:48:46.199
didn't before.

1098
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.440
You know, Kira says, you do realise we would have done anything

1099
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:50.219
you said.

1100
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:54.360
I do love that prophecy.

1101
00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:58.079
You are a Bijour, says Camille Sovio.

1102
00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:02.280
Star Trek fans are pondering over this for the next 3 seasons.

1103
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:06.179
So this scene is adorable.

1104
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.320
It's so sweet.

1105
00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:10.860
Oh, this is one of Keiko's best ever scenes, I think.

1106
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:12.900
Yeah, she's really fitcom.

1107
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:16.019
And Rosalind Chow shows her comedy shops and then something went

1108
00:49:16.019 --> 00:49:19.260
up to myself, why was she so serious in the 1st couple of seasons

1109
00:49:19.260 --> 00:49:19.619
you know?

1110
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:20.340
She's so funny.

1111
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.199
She's really funny.

1112
00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:27.000
Do not remember when Kira moves in and she goes to the 2 of them.

1113
00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:28.920
Have you been fighting again, the 2 of you?

1114
00:49:31.019 --> 00:49:33.300
Can I do the joke, Nathan?

1115
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:34.980
Okay, I'm going to use somebody else, though.

1116
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:35.460
You ready?

1117
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:38.400
Hello, Todd?

1118
00:49:38.460 --> 00:49:38.880
Yes.

1119
00:49:38.940 --> 00:49:42.059
Oh, I've been seeing Nathan lately, you know.

1120
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:43.860
He's looking really depressed.

1121
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:45.000
Yeah.

1122
00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:46.440
Why don't you go and hang out with him?

1123
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:48.000
Well, maybe 2 hours.

1124
00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:48.840
All right.

1125
00:49:48.900 --> 00:49:49.260
Okay.

1126
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:50.519
Hello?

1127
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:51.119
Nathan?

1128
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.820
Have you seen Todd lately?

1129
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.780
He's been listening to untitled Star Trek project.

1130
00:49:57.840 --> 00:49:59.340
Yeah, he's really depressed.

1131
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:01.860
Yeah, why did he go into that?

1132
00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:04.260
I mean, it is wonderful, isn't it?

1133
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:05.219
It's wonderful.

1134
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:09.659
But she's so expressive, she's pulling funny faces, like she's

1135
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:10.860
really having fun with it.

1136
00:50:10.860 --> 00:50:16.260
And she's, you know, also that she's kind of, she's clocked that.

1137
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:19.559
Yeah, look, she's clocked as well.

1138
00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:24.119
The only thing that would make him, it's wonderful.

1139
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:25.380
It's just wonderful.

1140
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.960
But because she, it wouldn't work if she said, for Christ's sake

1141
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:33.000
you miserable bastard go out and have a drink.

1142
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:37.860
She has to turn it into a rescue mission so that they feel okay

1143
00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:42.119
about doing that when she dumps a shitty bird.

1144
00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:44.519
Oh, this line.

1145
00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:46.500
She goes, it's a care and the Reese original.

1146
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:49.019
He goes, I hear she didn't make many.

1147
00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:50.880
So great.

1148
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:52.199
So fun.

1149
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:53.940
Oh, it's hideous.

1150
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.539
I want one.

1151
00:50:55.199 --> 00:51:01.079
I feel like we don't get to hear the speech, and we did get to

1152
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:05.039
hear a speech from an emissary earlier in the episode, so maybe we

1153
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:06.179
don't need to hear.

1154
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:07.559
Maybe if witness was a 2 par.

1155
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:08.519
We might have had some time.

1156
00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:10.019
Yeah, yeah, maybe that would be good.

1157
00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:11.639
I'll grab the scene of the bird, though, if I'm honest.

1158
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:15.599
Well, I'm happy to have them playing Dungeons and Dragons as they

1159
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.119
want. through that thing.

1160
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:22.559
I think they're getting very horny in those hollow sweets, you

1161
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:22.739
know.

1162
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:25.440
But I actually think that's beautifully done because that's the

1163
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:28.320
resolution of that plot, and it just happens with those 2

1164
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:30.599
characters walking through VC.

1165
00:51:30.659 --> 00:51:33.900
Having a few lines of dialogue in their stupid outfit which has

1166
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:36.780
already been associated with their relationship by that earlier

1167
00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:37.260
scene.

1168
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:38.340
Do you know what I mean?

1169
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:39.119
It's just so light.

1170
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:39.719
Do you know what I mean?

1171
00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:42.179
And now we see what we see to think about.

1172
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:44.039
The only way these 2 plots connect.

1173
00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:46.679
It's just there when they walk past.

1174
00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:49.619
But it's so good because otherwise it would have just been this

1175
00:51:49.619 --> 00:51:52.079
leaden fucking scene where they sat down and talked about their

1176
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:53.519
feelings. you know what I mean?

1177
00:51:54.059 --> 00:51:57.059
Did you see Kira and Cisco?

1178
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:00.059
They both look at each other and laugh at the state of them in

1179
00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:01.199
those ridiculous costumes.

1180
00:52:01.260 --> 00:52:02.219
Yeah.

1181
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:05.159
Oh, this is funny.

1182
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.639
Just to repeat the scene at the end, but now he has a huge smile

1183
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:09.239
on his face.

1184
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:10.500
He's embracing that.

1185
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:15.840
This girl who is clearly not being paid to deliver any dialogue

1186
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:16.320
this week.

1187
00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:19.980
And so she's not gonna say anything at all in this situation.

1188
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:25.019
I sat for 2 hours in this makeup chair and you're not giving me a

1189
00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:25.260
line.

1190
00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:28.920
Oh man.

1191
00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:31.320
Nathan, when he smiles, Avery Brooks.

1192
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:33.300
It warms my heart.

1193
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:34.920
It's the most beautiful smile.

1194
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.219
That was, that was good.

1195
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.820
And what was great about it was it was a really, really good

1196
00:52:41.820 --> 00:52:45.000
episode that wasn't an event episode.

1197
00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:48.840
Like, it was, like, in retrospect, it proves to be really

1198
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:52.320
important, it's clearly a deliberate course correction, but it may

1199
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:57.179
be something that Jane Spenson found, and then the rest of them

1200
00:52:57.179 --> 00:52:57.840
went with.

1201
00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:00.960
I don't know what the genesis of it is, or do they go to Jane and

1202
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.960
say, we want to, you know, big up the emissary, think, and you

1203
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:06.599
find a way of getting that restarted, like making that a thing

1204
00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:07.320
again.

1205
00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:08.940
We've been neglecting it.

1206
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:09.539
I don't know.

1207
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.960
But, but it's a non-event episode.

1208
00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:15.539
It's not, you know, in the pale moonlight, it's not a big kind of

1209
00:53:15.539 --> 00:53:16.739
high stakes war episode.

1210
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:20.039
It's just really good and fun and well.

1211
00:53:20.099 --> 00:53:24.059
This would be my upper, if I was rating DSN either, this would

1212
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:25.619
rank quite high for me.

1213
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:26.760
Yeah, okay.

1214
00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:27.239
Yeah, yeah.

1215
00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:32.760
Because this is precisely what I was talking about in profit

1216
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:38.219
motive about hanging out with these characters, sort of believable

1217
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:44.099
character moments and sort of warm, intimate performances.

1218
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.039
This is more hang time on Star Trek.

1219
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:47.940
Yeah, yeah.

1220
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:52.739
But here, she sort of, she adds that to a plot that has real

1221
00:53:52.739 --> 00:53:56.039
weight, both for the premise of the show, the future of the show

1222
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:59.880
and has a massive importance to the characters going forward as

1223
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:00.059
well.

1224
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:01.019
Yeah.

1225
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:03.300
But it is really quite understated.

1226
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:07.980
Like you said, it's not waving a flag going, we want to be in a

1227
00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:08.820
top 10 list.

1228
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:11.280
It's just really, very good.

1229
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:16.380
And frankly, if all Star Trek was aiming for this, we're being

1230
00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:28.199
such a great place, unfortunately, very often. they're not All

1231
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:30.719
right, it's the end of the episode, and we need to work out where

1232
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:32.039
we're going next.

1233
00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:38.639
And so to take a look at an alternative vision of Star Trek, which

1234
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:43.320
is nowhere near as good as what we've just watched.

1235
00:54:43.380 --> 00:54:48.840
We are going this week to pick an episode of Star Trek

1236
00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:49.500
Enterprise.

1237
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:51.119
Of course we are.

1238
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:54.480
Only you ever take us.

1239
00:54:54.539 --> 00:54:57.300
I love Star Trek Enterprise.

1240
00:54:57.360 --> 00:54:57.900
It's so terrible.

1241
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:02.519
I mean, we have sort of our educational Star Trek Enterprise has

1242
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:02.940
been that.

1243
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.280
If we're in the last series, we're all right.

1244
00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:08.400
Otherwise, well, it's rough.

1245
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:10.380
Nathan, are we in the last series?

1246
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:11.880
I don't know.

1247
00:55:11.940 --> 00:55:13.980
Let me press the button.

1248
00:55:14.579 --> 00:55:21.659
Uh, it's your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is Dedalus.

1249
00:55:21.659 --> 00:55:24.239
Season four, episode 10.

1250
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:29.579
Now, I'm going to suggest you press it again, only because if we

1251
00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:34.139
do all the series 4 episodes, and we've done quite a few now, we're

1252
00:55:34.139 --> 00:55:36.000
just going to be left with all the dogs.

1253
00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:37.920
Okay, all right.

1254
00:55:37.980 --> 00:55:38.880
All right.

1255
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:40.199
Let's aim lower then.

1256
00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:43.679
Yeah, but on 10 years time, I don't just want to be stuck doing

1257
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:45.900
series one episodes of Enterprise, right?

1258
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:53.760
Well, this time then, it's season three, episode 18 Azati Prime.

1259
00:55:53.820 --> 00:55:56.340
Yes, yes, yes.

1260
00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:58.019
Oh, okay.

1261
00:55:58.079 --> 00:55:58.679
Why?

1262
00:55:58.739 --> 00:55:59.340
Is it terrible?

1263
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:00.119
Gray.

1264
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:01.920
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1265
00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:02.639
This is great.

1266
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:05.280
I don't care if you don't think this is great.

1267
00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:05.940
It's great.

1268
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.559
I really want to watch that.

1269
00:56:07.619 --> 00:56:09.179
Sounds like I'll hate this.

1270
00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:14.940
This is my favourite episode of Series 3. by a mile.

1271
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.619
It's the best cliffhanger ever in Star Trek Enterprise. and I

1272
00:56:19.619 --> 00:56:21.119
don't care if that's hyperbole.

1273
00:56:21.179 --> 00:56:23.639
This is great I wanna watch it.

1274
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:24.960
Wow, is it?

1275
00:56:25.019 --> 00:56:27.900
I've never been so forceful about Enterprise before.

1276
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:31.199
All right, well, definitely do it, but I can assure you, I'll hate

1277
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:31.380
it.

1278
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.760
The trouble is, you know, Scott Bacula came round and he asked to

1279
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.880
do a funeral ritual and we touched some rocks together and ever

1280
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:42.300
since then, I've been obsessed with Star Trek Enterprise, you

1281
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:42.420
know?

1282
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:43.260
right.

1283
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.780
Well, that can happen as we've discovered.

1284
00:56:46.980 --> 00:56:48.599
All right.

1285
00:56:48.659 --> 00:56:49.679
We'll do it.

1286
00:56:49.739 --> 00:56:54.239
It's just to say, it's right in the heart of that arc.

1287
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:55.980
It's a huge moment.

1288
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:57.840
I love it.

1289
00:56:57.900 --> 00:57:01.559
It's a huge moment in that arc as well.

1290
00:57:01.619 --> 00:57:07.860
And it's probably as cinematic as Enterprise ever got in terms of

1291
00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:08.280
action.

1292
00:57:08.340 --> 00:57:10.920
So, yeah, I think it's definitely work to look.

1293
00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:13.199
A lot of cartoon spaceships.

1294
00:57:13.260 --> 00:57:14.340
Lows, yeah.

1295
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.840
And people being sucked into space is great.

1296
00:57:18.900 --> 00:57:19.679
Oh, okay.

1297
00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:20.340
All right.

1298
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:21.000
Okay.

1299
00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:21.780
Will do it.

1300
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:32.519
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1301
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:33.659
and Nathan Bottomley.

1302
00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:37.019
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1303
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:39.780
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1304
00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:43.320
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1305
00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:44.940
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1306
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:48.900
This episode was recorded on the 5th of November 2024 and released

1307
00:57:48.900 --> 00:57:50.280
on the 15th of November.

1308
00:57:50.340 --> 00:57:54.599
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise, Azanti Prime.

1309
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:19.079
You know, I've noticed, when we do these, um, I'll throw you out

1310
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:26.280
the back, change your face of evil, um, uh, God, the one with the

1311
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:30.480
great Treachery Faith in the Great River, this, when he sees ones

1312
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:33.900
that are really annured in, there's so much to talk about, isn't

1313
00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:34.079
there?

1314
00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:37.199
Like, we would never run out of things to say in those sort of

1315
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:37.739
episodes.

1316
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:38.159
No.

1317
00:58:38.940 --> 00:58:41.099
Yeah, God I love it.

1318
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:41.880
I do.

1319
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.659
I push it a bit much sometimes, but I do love that show.

1320
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:47.639
No, no, I thought that was properly good.

1321
00:58:47.699 --> 00:58:51.840
That, that, like, again, Jane Spenson, and she's so...

1322
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:55.380
Like, I think she's the best Buffy rider.

1323
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:56.219
Me too.

1324
00:58:56.340 --> 00:58:57.119
Yeah, yeah.

1325
00:58:57.179 --> 00:59:01.079
Right up until the end where she wrote the storyteller, the Andrew

1326
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:01.619
episode.

1327
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:02.760
I just love it.

1328
00:59:03.420 --> 00:59:06.179
You put your knife in our utensil drawer.

1329
00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:08.820
He goes, I washed it.

1330
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:15.119
It's really good.

1331
00:59:15.179 --> 00:59:16.019
She's wonderful.

1332
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:16.980
She's just terrific.

1333
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:17.940
Just properly funny.

1334
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:22.500
And I think she does the best episode of Torchwood series 4 as

1335
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:22.800
well.

1336
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:25.980
Is that the one with the gay romance?

1337
00:59:26.039 --> 00:59:28.920
Yeah, yeah, that's that's really good.

1338
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:34.139
I think I think I wonder if she was like, you know, Nana Vista is

1339
00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:34.500
pretty good.

1340
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:36.179
We'll bring her into torture it, shall we?

1341
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:40.260
Because obviously she turns up the issue for one random episode.

1342
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:45.300
Doesn't she turn up for one episode of BSG and isn't is that by

1343
00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:46.199
Janis Spenson?

1344
00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:46.739
I can't remember.

1345
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:47.400
It is.

1346
00:59:47.460 --> 00:59:48.000
Yeah, it is.

1347
00:59:48.059 --> 00:59:49.019
Yeah, yeah.

1348
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:54.480
She wasn't well-matched to BSG, though, because it's so dark and

1349
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:55.260
she's so funny.

1350
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:56.820
Do you know what?

1351
00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:01.500
You remember when Russell did the Narrows It Down scene in World

1352
01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:02.219
War III?

1353
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:03.000
Yeah.

1354
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:04.980
He's not aping, just Whedon.

1355
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:09.659
He's aping Janis Spain. because she does that fast whiff back and

1356
01:00:09.659 --> 01:00:09.900
forth.

1357
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:11.400
Shiro homecoming.

1358
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:15.119
Do you remember when she's like, Cordelia, pick up the gun.

1359
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:18.659
Accordingly, it's like, and she goes, oh, Portelia, pick up the

1360
01:00:18.659 --> 01:00:19.260
spatula.

1361
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:20.639
And she just hits the band.

1362
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:25.260
You know, that's, I think that's absolutely what Russell's looking

1363
01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:25.500
at.

1364
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:26.460
Yeah, yeah.

1365
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:28.619
No, she's, I mean, she's magnificent.

1366
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:29.280
She's so good.

1367
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:34.079
Like, I did like her in BSG because I think that, you know, it

1368
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:36.300
again, it has texture.

1369
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:39.119
It's not... all grim.

1370
01:00:39.179 --> 01:00:42.840
Like, it is really grim in a way that I don't normally lie. be

1371
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:43.440
funny.

1372
01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:44.820
Yeah.

1373
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:49.679
But I don't know if it's playing to her biggest strength, which

1374
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:50.579
is...

1375
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:53.940
But she's, but the rightly stuff, the discovering things about the

1376
01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:55.199
characters and getting characters.

1377
01:00:55.260 --> 01:00:58.739
Oh, yeah. to speak for themselves and all of that, like BSG's

1378
01:00:58.739 --> 01:00:58.980
doing that.

1379
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:00.480
Like, he's more sophisticated.

1380
01:01:00.539 --> 01:01:03.900
She's been knocking on her door to sue 5, 6, and 7 of TS9.

1381
01:01:04.019 --> 01:01:06.480
Yeah, absolutely. imagine what she could have done.

1382
01:01:06.900 --> 01:01:09.960
And just so nice to have a woman writing, you know?

1383
01:01:10.380 --> 01:01:13.199
Yeah, why does she never come back, I wonder?

1384
01:01:13.260 --> 01:01:14.820
Well, she's got a career.

1385
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:17.159
You know, she, I need them.

1386
01:01:19.019 --> 01:01:21.840
But like, I'm glad that we got it for this.

1387
01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:24.000
I mean, I'm really glad that we got it for it because she's

1388
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.739
magnificent. the only script, isn't it?

1389
01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:27.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1390
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:30.599
But like I said, the force of nature thing is a genius idea.

1391
01:01:30.659 --> 01:01:34.860
Like, I remember thinking that, and maybe, and even overwhelmed my

1392
01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:37.320
impression of it, because everyone says it's really dreadful.

1393
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:42.300
I always thought, no, no, no, it is the, it threatens the show.

1394
01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:45.780
Like it threatens that whole universe.

1395
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:46.860
It's like the burn.

1396
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:47.880
Do you know what I mean?

1397
01:01:47.940 --> 01:01:51.719
It's like it, it, it makes that whole universe impossible.

1398
01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:53.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1399
01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:54.059
Yeah.

1400
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:56.280
And they don't lean into it a lot, do they?

1401
01:01:56.340 --> 01:01:58.920
It's kind of like I failed and they don't, there's not a lot of

1402
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:02.280
kind of, well, I'll just have to leave and go back to, you know

1403
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:03.000
Earth or whatever.

1404
01:02:03.059 --> 01:02:06.360
Like that's not really properly said, but it is strongly implied.

1405
01:02:06.420 --> 01:02:09.840
And there is because that conversation about his failure

1406
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:15.119
eventually becomes a conversation about her having to, um, having

1407
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:18.480
to quit the job, you know, like it's, yeah, it's good.

1408
01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:19.500
She's just...

1409
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:20.880
Which is where the emotional meat is, right?

1410
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:22.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1411
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:22.800
Well, yeah.

1412
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:27.420
She's just got a pulse on the emulsion on the emotions.

1413
01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:28.980
She's just great.

1414
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:32.460
And, of course, she sung that wonderful song, didn't she?

1415
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:33.900
It once more we're feeling.

1416
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:37.320
No, that was my...

1417
01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:38.460
Oh, was it?

1418
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:40.320
Oh, why did I think that was Shane Spenson?

1419
01:02:40.380 --> 01:02:41.760
No, it's Martin Oxon.

1420
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:44.039
Much less good, rider.

1421
01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:46.019
No, but interesting.

1422
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:47.880
Interesting.

1423
01:02:47.940 --> 01:02:49.440
D dark.

1424
01:02:49.500 --> 01:02:52.199
Yeah, a bit too bleak for me, I think.

1425
01:02:52.260 --> 01:02:58.139
There's Buffy in series in series 6 is too miserable, I think.

1426
01:02:58.199 --> 01:03:01.800
And it like Joss is a way doing something else, isn't he?

1427
01:03:01.860 --> 01:03:03.900
It's mostly Marty's...

1428
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:04.619
On the right day, though.

1429
01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:06.480
Some of those episodes are my favourites.

1430
01:03:06.539 --> 01:03:07.800
Oh, yeah, yeah, she's good.

1431
01:03:07.860 --> 01:03:09.420
Like, I think she...

1432
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:10.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1433
01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:12.239
It's amazing.

1434
01:03:12.300 --> 01:03:14.940
But then, yeah, well, go look at six.

1435
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:18.000
It's the Jane the Spenson episodes that are the lighter ones. are

1436
01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:18.780
the funny ones, you know?

1437
01:03:18.900 --> 01:03:20.460
She's like, I'm not doing this.

1438
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:22.199
Bloody rape and torture.

1439
01:03:22.260 --> 01:03:24.360
I'm not doing that Come on now.

1440
01:03:24.539 --> 01:03:27.960
I'm going to have everyone forget their memories and we'll have a

1441
01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:29.400
nice comedy episode, you know?

1442
01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:32.940
Yeah, which, again, it's great into...

1443
01:03:32.940 --> 01:03:34.860
Doesn't it, like, properly leads into thing?

1444
01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:37.500
Randy Giles, he goes.

1445
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:38.940
My name's Randy.

1446
01:03:41.699 --> 01:03:44.340
All right, all right, all right.

1447
01:03:44.460 --> 01:03:45.300
I think we did well.

1448
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:48.179
Yeah, I think we did pretty well, you know.

1449
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:51.480
All right, I'm going to go water the plants.

1450
01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:54.719
As usual, my feet are freezing because all the blood has rushed

1451
01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:56.039
down to them, sitting on this chair.

1452
01:03:56.099 --> 01:03:57.539
There we go.

1453
01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:58.980
It's a thing, arthritis.

1454
01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:00.840
So I'm going to go and have bath.

1455
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:02.760
I will send these.

1456
01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:04.980
I will say good night. immediately.

1457
01:04:05.820 --> 01:04:07.860
I'm going to stop recording.