WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:43:28 1 00:00:21.899 --> 00:00:24.420 Hey, Joe. Hi. 2 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:38.460 So, we are now doing our second enterprise episode, and in our 1st episode, Strange New World, I think we were a bit negative. 3 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:39.539 Yeah, yeah. 4 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:47.700 But we decided to go for it again because we really wanted an episode that kind of showcases, enterprises, strengths. 5 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:52.020 How do you feel about this episode generally, do you think? 6 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:56.880 Well, can, is it congenital or congenital? 7 00:00:56.939 --> 00:00:57.840 cogenitor. 8 00:00:57.899 --> 00:00:58.799 Yeah, co-genitor. 9 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:00.420 You did that so well. 10 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:04.620 I thought this was way better. 11 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:06.000 Strange New Worlds. 12 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:09.599 It provided you and me with a lot of talking points. 13 00:01:09.659 --> 00:01:11.700 We've already discussed this quite a bit. 14 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:16.739 Whereas, you know, there was so little of substance to Strange New World. 15 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.560 We couldn't even find anything to talk about whilst we were watching it. 16 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:20.819 No. 17 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.579 What's really interesting about cogenitories. 18 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:34.500 I think this is the point where enterprise starts to tip in the other direction, quality wise, because this is followed up with, so the rest of the season. 19 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:39.239 Yeah, uh, we're, it's what, season 2, episode 22. 20 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:40.680 Yeah. 21 00:01:40.739 --> 00:01:42.180 I'm doing your bit now, sorry. 22 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:47.700 But what comes next is Regeneration, which is a Borg episode, which is very strong. 23 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:53.760 First flight, which explains a lot about Archer's past, and that's a really strong episode. 24 00:01:53.819 --> 00:02:13.080 There's bouncy, which is a bit... crap, if I'm modest, and then it's the expanse, which I've watched this week, and it's very much a bit of a jarring, like hard reboot for the series, but definitely like tips it in a very dramatic direction. 25 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:27.960 So I watched the expanse, I watched the 1st 2 episodes of season 3 and it's definitely the show turning a corner in a positive way and suddenly becoming TV that's actually genuinely worth turning up for. 26 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:36.659 Uh, I watched the Zindi and anomaly, and anomaly is just a very, very good episode of Star Trek. 27 00:02:36.719 --> 00:03:03.180 And during season three, I know there's a there's a 3 parter towards the end of series 3, which I remembered as I was watching anomaly, which features the Enterprise literally being blasted to buggery and them limping through this region of space, the Delphic expanse, basically coming apart of the seams and, you know, completely, um, like it looks like it's all over, you know? 28 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.159 It's really fantastic TV. 29 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:13.139 And it's not the sort of thing you would expect Enterprise to deliver after the Yawnathon that is seasons one and two. 30 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:22.439 And I think this is the point where they realised enterprise needed to have something to say in order to be good TV. 31 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:24.360 And they do it in this. 32 00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:31.979 I'm not sure what they say in this is worth hearing because it's a bit troubling, as I'm sure you're going to talk about later on. 33 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:37.319 But when they hit the expanse, they're absolutely doing a 911 analogy. 34 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:37.860 Yeah. 35 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:46.620 And they are exploring the sort of the morally gray areas of reacting to that in season three. 36 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.520 And so suddenly Enterprise is it's working on a different level than before. 37 00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:52.620 It's not just kind of vanilla Star Trek. 38 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.560 It is saying something. that's a good thing. 39 00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:00.479 Yeah, no, and that's what we think the best of Star Trek does. 40 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:07.139 I mean, you know, we forget that there's all sorts of terrible nonsense in there as well and space things and all of that. 41 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:08.699 We love that as well. 42 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:10.500 Well, of course we do. 43 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:12.240 That's why we're here. 44 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:17.759 But it also has things to say, and that's one of the things that we love about it. 45 00:04:17.819 --> 00:04:19.139 Here. 46 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:23.279 I'm pretty certain the things that it has to say are really true. 47 00:04:23.459 --> 00:04:26.639 And I will get quite cross about it later, I think. 48 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.779 This episode is written by Berman and Braga, isn't it? 49 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:35.459 So this is, and, you know, and like I said, they wrote so much of the 1st 2 series. 50 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:44.459 They also wrote stigma this season, which is the HIV AIDS story, which they were asked to do. 51 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.160 It shows you how much they were willing to do something like that. 52 00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:48.540 They were actually asked to do that. 53 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:50.339 It wasn't anything they wanted to do. 54 00:04:50.399 --> 00:05:00.060 And the things they have to say about that, and I'm speaking as somebody whose ex-partner had HIV, I find it truly insulting. 55 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:05.339 And there's a line at the end of this about a baby not being born, which I think you're going to talk about. 56 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:14.160 I mean, there's some there's some troubling opinions. embedded into Star Trek at this point, isn't it? 57 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:15.779 Yeah, yeah. 58 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:17.759 I think it is complex. 59 00:05:17.819 --> 00:05:46.620 Like, I think that the what the episode actually lands on is a problem, but it does at least properly present both ideas, you know, and it gives us perhaps the most sympathetic character to explore of the kind of idea that oppression needs to be remedied and and that it's not okay just because it's another culture or whatever. 60 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:51.480 It's not okay to just sit back and you know, do nothing. 61 00:05:51.899 --> 00:05:56.939 It's a world away from the trip of strange new world. 62 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:57.600 Yeah, isn't it? 63 00:05:57.660 --> 00:06:01.259 Horrible, angry, racist trip from a strange new world. 64 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.480 What is strange you won't have to say anyway? 65 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:07.439 Are the rock monsters of this away mission real or not? 66 00:06:07.500 --> 00:06:10.019 You know, like... 67 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:16.560 Well, I mean, we talked about that, but yes, essentially it's just a procedural and it doesn't have a very interesting problem to solve. 68 00:06:16.620 --> 00:06:19.079 But also, very quickly before we jump in. 69 00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:20.399 Very, very quickly. 70 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:24.000 Because I know I can see you on your face now, and that's what you were just about to say. 71 00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:25.319 Should we jump into the episode? 72 00:06:25.379 --> 00:06:28.319 I just want to very quickly talk about Archer. 73 00:06:28.379 --> 00:06:30.660 Now we'll talk about him within the episode itself. 74 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:36.360 But I want to talk about what an incredible shithead that character is. 75 00:06:37.259 --> 00:06:47.220 Wherever you're watching in the show, I think it's the biggest sticking point of enterprise, that he is a nasty bit of work, Archer. 76 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:55.199 And it's very surprising to see somebody this unlikeable, um, spearheading a Star Trek show. 77 00:06:55.259 --> 00:07:00.720 Now, within this episode, he has a lot of moments where I know you struggled with him. 78 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:12.060 But then we hit the expanse and suddenly he's angry archer going after the people that set this weapon off and murders 7000000 people. 79 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:30.720 And suddenly he's shoving people into airlocks and sucking them out into space and he's in this whole sort of like morally greyer, which one, you know, I've seen them touch upon with Janeway and Cisco before, but it goes way further than you ever went with Cisco and Janeway. 80 00:07:30.779 --> 00:07:33.000 He's actively violent and unpleasant. 81 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:47.160 And I remember in season 4, when they come back to earth in, it's called home, the episode, he goes up into the mountains and actually has a good long think about who the hell he is and what he's become. 82 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:50.100 And the character is a lot better kind of after that. 83 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.180 But really, He's a douchebag, isn't he? 84 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:58.079 Oh, we'll get there. 85 00:07:58.139 --> 00:07:59.579 We'll definitely get there. 86 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.279 All right, let's get started. 87 00:08:02.339 --> 00:08:03.899 I'll count us in. 88 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:14.339 I'm on the 1st frame. 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off. 89 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.379 We are off. 90 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:19.500 That's a beautiful shot. 91 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:23.100 And there are some, there's some nice direction in this. 92 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.259 LeVar Burton is directing this episode. 93 00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:34.620 And as I said to you moments before we press record, I think his strengths are absolutely in directing character episodes rather than action. 94 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:36.360 So this is his wheelhouse, for sure. 95 00:08:36.419 --> 00:08:46.200 So here is Tripp making some horrible banter with Tapol, which is still uncomfortable, but not as nasty as last time. 96 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.379 There's kind of like knowing looks now, isn't it? 97 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:56.399 raised eyebrows and it's a little less overtly racist and a little more it feels a bit more like banter. 98 00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:58.139 Yeah, yeah. 99 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:07.799 I'd still found it just a little bit unpleasantly uncomfortable, but it is the only thing in the episode about Tripp's performance that I dislike. 100 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:10.980 I think he's magnificent in this, like really properly good. 101 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:15.059 He's really sensitive in this, isn't he, Connor Trinit? 102 00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:18.000 and really sort of going forward from this point. 103 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:22.620 Even when they try and make him angry because his sister dies in that terrorist attack. 104 00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:25.799 And they try and make him like this properly angry. 105 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:32.460 But Conor Trinier is just so charming that he's still he's still quite likeable. 106 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:34.080 What's that guy's name again? 107 00:09:34.139 --> 00:09:35.700 Travis. 108 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.960 So Travis and Hoshi get nothing to do, Mayweather. 109 00:09:40.019 --> 00:09:41.220 Ah, goddamn it. 110 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:42.179 You got it right, right? 111 00:09:42.600 --> 00:10:01.440 All right, so here we have Drenik, Captain Drenik, from the Visians, and he is Star Trek, um, sort of stalwart Andreas Katsulas, who played Tomalok in several episodes of Star Trek, The Next Generation. 112 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:05.100 And he's in something called Babylon 5, which I've never heard of. 113 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.559 He is the best thing about Babylon 5. 114 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:12.600 The characters of Jakal Londo in, and it's the alien characters again. 115 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:14.100 It's the Big Space 9 effect. 116 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.379 It's the aliens characters that are the most interesting ones. 117 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:24.960 Um, he's, he gives an incredibly subtle, incredibly nuanced performance in Babylon 5. 118 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:29.820 And I don't often say nice things about that show, but he's very, very good. 119 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:30.659 Yeah. 120 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.460 Well, he was always great in Star Trek. 121 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:41.639 I think he's in 3 as a as a Romulan, as sort of very rare recurring character, and I think he's... 122 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:42.240 Oh, here we go. 123 00:10:42.299 --> 00:10:43.080 Here we go. 124 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.379 I love this road. 125 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:49.799 Now my time is finally here. 126 00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:52.440 Just in case people can't, you know, obviously they can't hear this. 127 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:54.720 So I'll just sing it for them. 128 00:10:54.779 --> 00:11:06.360 So I want to say, so I was super angry about this horrific colonialist, you know, great man, great white man of history, title sequence. 129 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:08.399 You were pretty quiet about that, you know, last time. 130 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:23.580 But I actually think that you can see where, you know, there are elements here that recur in the discovery titles, which I think are magnificent, but the idea that you have plans and blueprints and things like that. 131 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:35.220 So you've got this archival footage, but there's these elements of sort of mostly maps, but also blueprints of flying machines and things like that. 132 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.940 And I think that's really good and I love the discovery titles. 133 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.940 So, you know, and they're trying something different. 134 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:46.200 I just think having enterprise go past nebulas or something. 135 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:48.000 They couldn't really do that again. 136 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.519 And this is at least telling a story. 137 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.960 What prodigy did, which was so interesting, I thought. 138 00:11:55.019 --> 00:12:08.279 It was, it let, and so the 2 things I love, you know, it was, um, the ship's stately going through beautiful things, the Voyager effect, but also, as you pointed out to me, it's leaning to all of their characters as well. 139 00:12:08.340 --> 00:12:12.960 So it's saying something about all of their characters and I thought that was a really interesting approach. 140 00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:14.820 This, it's okay. 141 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:18.120 I don't think it's ever going to be my favourite, especially because of that bloody song. 142 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:19.740 I love the song. 143 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.039 So you mentioned the lighting. 144 00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:34.440 So we actually have what looks like sunlight coming through the window and obviously that's what we do in discovery all the time, but it isn't something that was done in 90s track. 145 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.139 Well, I'm going to name 2 other episodes, right? 146 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:45.899 Wrong starter than Deaf and Knight from DS9, which is set in during the occupation back when the station was orbiting Bajor. 147 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:52.139 And it's even more striking than this because they used like a really strong light on the characters. 148 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:54.899 So a lot of people are in silhouette in the sun. 149 00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:06.120 And also Voyager's survival instinct, which is the one episode that Ronald D.Moro for which are in series 6 and that's set in orbit of a planet. 150 00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:08.519 And every time they do it, it looks so good just like this. 151 00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:09.179 Yeah. 152 00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:13.980 Well, David Carson does it in generations and that team 10 forward looks amazing. 153 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:21.299 So these 2 women, they're going for jobs as Fox News hosts, I think. 154 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.639 We have these 2 extremely blonde women. 155 00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:26.700 They are sexually voracious as well. 156 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:27.779 Honestly. 157 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:42.000 You know, there is something about this that I actually like, and it's something that is to do with the premise of the show, which is this is the 1st ship that goes to explore. 158 00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:48.899 And this sort of thing where they're just discovering each other's culture, which looks like the B plot. 159 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:55.620 I think it has an important function in the episode, but I also just think it gives so much texture. 160 00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:57.419 This is something that's different. 161 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:02.340 You could sort of do the same thing with, say, uh, next generation. 162 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:07.500 But the fact that these are the 1st people, I think, is really interesting. 163 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:16.740 I, I quite like the fact that it's, it's an alien race similar but dissimilar to us. 164 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.980 So like they're a humanoid, there's a little bit of latex there, blah, blah, blah. 165 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.679 The latex looks fucking stupid, by the way. 166 00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:23.820 It looks outrageous. 167 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:24.659 It does. 168 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:25.679 Well, yes. 169 00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:26.519 Ridiculous. 170 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:29.220 But you've got this... 171 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:29.820 They were trying us. 172 00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:30.960 They were trying us. 173 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:38.340 You have a very, very pretty man there in the Visian chief engineer and he just looks absurd. 174 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:39.120 All right. 175 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:40.019 This scene. 176 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.840 So Tucker has found Tucker. 177 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:43.980 I keep calling him Tucker. 178 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.200 No, he is Trip Tucker. 179 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:46.379 Yeah. 180 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:47.039 Trip. 181 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:56.100 Tripp has encountered the cogenitor who is just a very quiet, sort of, I guess, we would say non-binary person. 182 00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:02.460 But, and now he's going to flocks to talk about it. 183 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:15.299 And initially, he seems to be just a little bit confused and confronted by this kind of arrangement, that there are 3 genders, or 3 sexes, rather. 184 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.340 And the terminology is confused. 185 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:20.279 We're a little bit more clear on the terminology than they were 20 years ago. 186 00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:22.980 Well, he's determined, it is a woman, isn't it? 187 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:23.519 He goes. 188 00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:26.519 She seems she seems like a woman. 189 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:28.019 Yeah, yeah. 190 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.759 But, yeah, yeah. 191 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:31.500 So he's he's having difficulty doing it. 192 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:39.120 What I love his flocks offers not only to explain how the Visians have sex, but he was about to show him a video. 193 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:40.379 I've got pictures. 194 00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:44.879 Just goes, no, actually, I'll be fine. 195 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:45.899 Isn't it wonderful? 196 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.440 But he then says, look, you're our head to meet other species. 197 00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:50.700 Don't be so judgemental. 198 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.799 Like, learn about this. 199 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.159 Yeah, and he absolutely does that. 200 00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:58.679 And when he comes back to flocks to talk about it later. 201 00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:05.580 He has no problem with the fact that it's that race isn't sexually dimorphic or whatever. 202 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.320 All right, now we're in this... 203 00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:24.539 So I think with flocks, you know, because I said to you before where they have the comedy polygamous plot line, um, in, I think that is bounty that's coming up, actually. that he, you know, he goes, you know, did you enjoy my wife because, you know, he's got several wives and husbands. 204 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:26.220 So there is a voice. 205 00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:35.700 Between Bragger and Burman that is willing to to speak on behalf of, you know, differences. 206 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:42.480 So that's why I find it even more troubling that they reach conclusions sometimes, which are a bit black and white. 207 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:57.659 Well, I mean, the thing is that the 2 alien characters on the 2 alien characters, crew members on Enterprise, both express the view that trip shouldn't get involved. 208 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.720 This scene here. 209 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:01.919 There's a moment here, right? 210 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:10.859 So we're in here with Drenik, I want to call him, and with Andreas and Archer. 211 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:18.299 And the Vician says that he's read all of Shakespeare and Sophocles, can you recommend something else? 212 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:26.220 And because they don't want Archer to seem unrelatable, he just says, oh, I reckon you could find the classics all by yourself. 213 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:38.519 And you, you know that Picard would have said, oh, you know, read, I don't know, Jane Austen or something, but they don't want, they don't want Archer to exhibit any book learning, you know. 214 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.359 Cisco would have been like, I've got these baseball matches that you can watch. 215 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:43.140 There you go. 216 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:44.279 Have a look at that. 217 00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:46.619 This guy here, F.J. 218 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:47.700 Rio, his name is. 219 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.160 I can't remember what the character's name is. 220 00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:52.019 I'm terrible with like one shot character. 221 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:53.640 He's just called chief engineer. 222 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:54.599 He doesn't get it. 223 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:02.700 He's very good in this, I think, because he's called a con to be quite angry later on. 224 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:07.740 But actually, it's quite, it's quite a subtle performance. doesn't really kind of lose it. 225 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.619 He's been in Star Trek a couple of times before. 226 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:16.680 And he played a semi-regular across series 4 and 5 of DS9. 227 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:22.680 He was in Starship Down, Hard Time, and then he dies in the ship. 228 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:24.480 I don't remember if you remember that one. 229 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:26.279 It's the crash Jem'Hadar shit. 230 00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:27.000 Yeah, yeah. 231 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:34.319 He gets shot and the whole, there's like a running character storyline of O'Brien trying to staunch the bleeding and he's getting worse. 232 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:36.539 And as the situation's getting more claustrophobic. 233 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:41.339 And the point where they all lose their shit with each other is the point where he actually dies. 234 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:41.579 Right. 235 00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:43.859 And it's really, really affected. 236 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:47.819 And it's effective because he's a likeable character and a good actor. 237 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:49.980 Well, I mean, he's likeable here. 238 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.319 He's pretty as well, but he's... 239 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.119 Fucking ratex is so bad. 240 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.740 You have to get used to it, you know. watching a lot of 90s trek. 241 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:05.460 They still do it a bit in discovery anyway. part of the deal. 242 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:11.519 But here he is, you know, like his absolutely charming trip is charming. 243 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:12.960 He's trying to keep an open mind. 244 00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:16.920 He's been asking maybe some intrusive personal questions. 245 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:24.180 Not quite, not quite like in the outcast where um, Soren asks Riker to describe his genital organs. 246 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:24.960 Do you remember that? 247 00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:26.400 Yeah. 248 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:27.180 Right, yeah. 249 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.279 Normally he'd just be right in for it. 250 00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:30.720 I don't know why he doesn't do it. 251 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:32.220 In fact, you know what? 252 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:38.940 You make a really good point there that the outcast and what's the other one where they delved into issues. 253 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:41.880 Oh, rejoin. 254 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:44.160 No, no, rejoice the DS9 one. 255 00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:47.400 You're talking about the, if it's the true one, isn't it? 256 00:19:47.460 --> 00:19:49.440 where Beverly Crusher basically says at the end. 257 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:50.700 Yeah, yeah. 258 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:55.740 Humanity is not ready for bisexuality. what she says in the final scene. 259 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:04.140 That just goes to show how far we've come, though, between then and this because this, like you say, at least offers both points of view. 260 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:25.140 Yeah, but I think that it isn't, this isn't about Tripp's initial discomfort with, or, yeah, he has slight discomfort with this sort of, um, the sort of sexual, I don't know, the way that these people have sex or the way these people conceive children having a 3rd gender. 261 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.119 And but he's over it. 262 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:28.079 He's over it now. 263 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:30.660 He's asked the engineer some questions. 264 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.819 He smiled and said, I'm keeping an open mind. 265 00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:40.859 So what you think this is more about fighting the oppression of this gender. 266 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:42.839 Yeah, that's right. 267 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:51.299 And so he's already concerned that she, you know, can't read. 268 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:52.799 She's not allowed to read. 269 00:20:52.859 --> 00:21:00.539 And one of the things in the Handmaid's tale is that Offred isn't permitted to read either. 270 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:05.880 And so she has to spend a lot of time in a room doing nothing because reading's illegal. 271 00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:11.759 And the Handmaid's Tale is just American slavery, but for white women. 272 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:25.500 And so in the 18th and 19th centuries, a lot of southern states passed literacy laws that made it illegal for black people to be taught to read. 273 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.599 And so... 274 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.359 If you can see the look on my face right now... 275 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:31.319 Absolute astonishment. 276 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:32.460 Yeah. 277 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:43.440 So, um, this thing about preventing her from reading is a real proper signifier that she is enslaved and oppressed. 278 00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:47.279 So what is, is it that, what, if they have knowledge? 279 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.740 Yeah, exactly. 280 00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:54.660 They could learn, you know, there's a better life than this and there's more to life than, you know. 281 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.220 Well, I mean, what is she? 282 00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:58.019 She's essentially like an incubator for children. 283 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.640 That's what the... 284 00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:04.380 She provides an enzyme, but fortunately, fortunately, flux doesn't tell us how. 285 00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:07.079 Oh, I'm sorry. 286 00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:08.400 Okay, this whole city. 287 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:09.660 Now, you and I, we talked about this. 288 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.660 The cheese seduction scene. 289 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.759 You quite like this, didn't you? 290 00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:17.279 Well, yeah, I kind of did. 291 00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:22.859 I, you know, it's, oh, God, I was going to say cheesy, but it is cheesy as hell. 292 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:39.599 In the sense that, you know, they're putting food into each other's mouths and she kind of touches his lip and all of that and all of that seems like completely inappropriate in a, you know, but, and, and it's, it's absolutely running out the clock, you know, it's running out the clock. 293 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:46.019 But I do like the very simple idea that pungent smells mean more to them than the taste of food. 294 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:50.640 It's kind of simple and it's just a little bit off centre from what we're used to. 295 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:57.000 But it's kind of enough to make this species a little bit unique because they do some jokes with it as well. 296 00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:01.079 Like when Trip goes to dinner and he smells the food and it's like, oh, God. 297 00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:02.339 And then he tries it. 298 00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:05.160 Well, that's pretty mild compared to what I'm thinking it was going taste like. 299 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:11.279 But that as well is not a cultural difference. 300 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:20.940 It's a cultural difference in a biological difference, I guess, but it's something that they can bond over and that they there's something about this relationship. 301 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:30.000 And this relationship has to be built up is important because it's destroyed at the end by trip's actions. 302 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:31.140 Yeah. 303 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:37.740 And so these people are getting on really, really well, they're absolutely bonding. 304 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:58.980 Um, And the same with Drenik and Archer in that little ship and um, trip and the chief engineer, and they're talking about sharing technology that we know that they won't get because we know the future history, you know, um, these people are vastly more advanced. 305 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:06.539 I do nothing, though. you like it when they meet these species, but are just like, hello, and we want, we want to, you know, come and see you. 306 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:07.680 We want to give you this. 307 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:08.940 And there's no real tension. 308 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:15.420 And it's really hard to play like super nice characters that are interesting. 309 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:17.099 And they managed, they all achieve it here. 310 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:18.359 Yeah, yeah. 311 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:20.400 Because there's no conflict, there's no tension. 312 00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:24.839 They're not behaving in a particularly, you know, horrible way towards them. 313 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:31.259 The only thing that's providing the tension is an element of this culture that's different from ours. 314 00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:33.779 Yeah, yeah, that's right. 315 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:46.740 Yeah, see, look, he's offering the chief engineer, the Visian chief engineer is offering to share their warp technology, which is vastly advanced compared to what is on enterprise. 316 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.880 And so this is going to be a really good productive relationship and we're rooting for it, I think, because it's fun to watch it happen. 317 00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:58.380 I think, um, and Andreas Katsulas is particular. 318 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:04.380 Yeah, he's particularly good in this because his character is so amiable. 319 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.460 And that could have been it could have been really boring, you know? 320 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:10.500 But he's charming as hell, I think. 321 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:11.279 Yeah. 322 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:15.119 And he's always been, sorry, what you said there about the technology. 323 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:23.339 Actually, it does come in because like I said, I watch the expanse and they talk about photon torpedoes in this. 324 00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:28.619 And they've got photon torpedoes come the expanse ready to go into there. 325 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:33.240 So I think they must give them blueprints or something like that, which they use. 326 00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:34.079 Yeah. 327 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:35.400 It's funny, isn't it? 328 00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:42.119 Because they don't have photon torpedoes and he mentions them and they have been mentioned before, I think, in France. 329 00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:47.220 There's a there's a time travel episode when they come out of the Delphic expanse called Storm from. 330 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:51.539 And I think, oh, yeah, a lot of stuff gets wiped away then, quite conveniently. 331 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:51.839 Right. 332 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.460 I absolutely hate these 2 now. 333 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.839 Colour, the wife and the chief engineer. 334 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:04.559 I just think they're absolutely smug and disgusting. 335 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:07.319 And I think the fact that they're dressed in white. 336 00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:13.440 I just, like, it's awake. 337 00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:15.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 338 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:20.279 I do like the fact that they're kind of presented as in this is all normal, you know? 339 00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:21.240 Yeah, yeah. 340 00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:21.660 Yeah. 341 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.640 They're not presented like specifically unlikably, are they? 342 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:30.839 They're just a bit arrogant and like this is our culture and, you know. 343 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:31.380 Yeah. 344 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:41.400 But I mean, it's like 3% of the population are essentially enslaved so that we can have procreative heterosexual intercourse. 345 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:45.720 And I hate those 2 smug people. 346 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.079 And particularly the wife. 347 00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.420 I just think I just think they're awful at this point. 348 00:26:51.480 --> 00:27:08.220 And that's a point that the episode doesn't properly make, and we'll get there, but I think that that's the problem here, that there's a real failure to acknowledge what's going on in this society and to just hand wave it away saying it's not our business. you know. 349 00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:10.559 Yeah, well, we've talked about that as well, haven't we? 350 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:15.660 That kind of arrogant tripping around the universe and not making a difference when you could. 351 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:17.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 352 00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:20.099 And I mean, this is a very advanced race. 353 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:25.799 The prime directive, which doesn't yet exist in 2153. 354 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:41.039 But I think they are playing the show as if there is some kind of directive in place that says they cannot specifically involve themselves in like the cultural affairs of other people because they talk about it in this. 355 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:48.119 Yeah, yeah, but I mean, this is a warp capable species that's technologically advanced. 356 00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:51.480 There's no kind of colonialism happening here from the humans. 357 00:27:51.539 --> 00:28:03.660 You know, they're not seeking to sort of subjugate or influence or colonise, uh, you know, a race that has less sophisticated technology or isn't aware of the galaxy around them. 358 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:13.079 But you know, I think that um, the Federation, Starfleet Command, whatever. is a bit more problematic than they would like to think. 359 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:21.059 And if the option was to have these technological blueprints, but you've got to turn a blind eye to the slavery, they'd be like, well, give us the blueprints then. 360 00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:22.319 We didn't see nothing. 361 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.599 That's exactly it. 362 00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:26.220 How about would we have to go? 363 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:36.779 Because my history is pretty terrible for slavery within a household and a very conservative couple like this, like in reality. 364 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:40.619 So the 19th century, 19th century. appalling, isn't it? 365 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:41.579 Yeah, yeah. 366 00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.079 Wow. 367 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:48.720 Yeah, it's abolished earlier in England, but it's still going in America after that. 368 00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:54.539 So, and again, so this is the scene where he's teaching her to read, right? 369 00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.119 And we've already established. 370 00:28:57.180 --> 00:29:17.579 He went to dinner with the horrible couple in order to scan her, to do a neural scan on her, to take it back to flocks, so that flocks could determine that she wasn't not taught to read because she's incapable of it, and that she is as smart as them. 371 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:23.099 And remember, Andreas read all of Shakespeare and Sophocles overnight. 372 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.779 So she's incredibly smart. 373 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:30.420 Okay, much smarter than them. 374 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:43.740 I don't wonder, you know, if they couldn't have, oh, maybe this is me being a bit out of line, if they couldn't have made that character a little more androgynous. 375 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:48.000 I think that, that she does look female. 376 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:54.299 Yeah, I mean, they do try and make her as androgynous as possible, but yeah, yeah. 377 00:29:54.359 --> 00:30:04.619 I think it's a bit of a shame that Tucker defaults to she, her pronouns, but, you know, that's better than it anyway, in any case. 378 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.180 I just don't think... 379 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:14.339 I just think like it would play more interestingly because to me it kind of feels like a male female relationship in how it looks. 380 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:16.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 381 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:20.339 But, you know, like it's not really romantic. 382 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:20.940 Is it? 383 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:22.500 No, no, no. 384 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.720 It's like a very charming friendship. 385 00:30:24.779 --> 00:30:26.339 Yeah, yeah. 386 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:26.700 Yeah. 387 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.180 It's not like Soren and Riker who eventually kind of bone or whatever. 388 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.839 This is different from that, I think. 389 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:35.880 Oh, I need to. 390 00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.700 I need to just say there's an awful lot, I'll take that back with these scenes. 391 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:39.779 A lot, you know. 392 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:42.059 I was zoning out a lot during these scenes. 393 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:48.539 Except that there is a character thing and it has something to do with the main plot. 394 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:55.259 So I think it's important for the plot that we want this relationship to succeed. 395 00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:56.039 Yeah. 396 00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:57.720 That's a bit of a cartoon that shot. 397 00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:59.160 And he says as well, doesn't he? 398 00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:07.680 When kind of the shit hits the fan and trip goes too far and the congenitor asks for asylum. 399 00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:12.180 Yeah, Andreas, whose name, whose character name I've forgotten again. 400 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.140 Drenik, I think. 401 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:25.500 Drenik says, you know, we've developed more of a friendship and a relationship in a couple of days than some people do in a lifetime, like let's not ruin this over this, over this little thing, you know? 402 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:26.039 Yeah. 403 00:31:26.099 --> 00:31:28.680 He's still being genial and friendly. 404 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:37.440 Even the fact that it's got to the point where the cogenitor has asked for asylum, he still isn't pulling out of the relationship. 405 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:47.279 And it is only after the sort of terrible tragic ending, which is in no way Tripp's fault. that they pull the plug on it. 406 00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:49.500 And so these are the stakes. 407 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.819 These scenes aren't filler. 408 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:52.380 They're presenting the stakes. 409 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:57.420 And I think they work because Drenik is, as you said, charming and amiable. 410 00:31:57.480 --> 00:31:58.799 He's really great. 411 00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:00.420 And it is nice. isn't it? 412 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:05.640 For once, species has come along that just isn't firing phases at all, whatever at them straight away. 413 00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:06.960 You know, that's quite refreshing. 414 00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:09.420 Oh, this bit here. 415 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:18.240 It's a very similar scene, you know, between O'Brien and a Cardassian in DS9 where they get this tube and she's just like, I'm going to have you. 416 00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:23.700 And actually, there's a scene between 7 and Harry, isn't there, where she's like, you can remove your clothes now. you know. 417 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.660 And he's so unused to women being this forceful with him. 418 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:29.880 Harry basically pees his pants in the Jeffrey Zoom. 419 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:30.480 It's really funny. 420 00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:34.619 Someone's so pretty, you would think they'd be lining up. 421 00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:38.519 Yeah, I actually really quite like this. 422 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:41.640 And again, it's not really filler. 423 00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:42.420 I think. 424 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:43.859 Oh, it's not really fun. 425 00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:45.000 Thor log again, though. 426 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.339 Oh, I wish you were like, oh, usually you ask people for dinner, you know, then you shag. 427 00:32:50.460 --> 00:32:55.319 And she goes, well, in our society, we shag and then decide whether you're worthy of dinner. 428 00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:57.119 That's right. 429 00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:58.799 So exciting. 430 00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:03.000 But again, it's that sort of cute cross-cultural thing. 431 00:33:03.059 --> 00:33:03.900 It's rather sweet. 432 00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:11.279 I mean, they're boning now while this conversation between Tripp and the cojenitor is happening, I suppose. 433 00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:13.920 Um, There is absolutely. 434 00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:33.059 There's a weird, there's a weird, um, contradiction here, though, because I feel like the episode ultimately criticises what Tripp's doing, and yet it seems to play out in such a lovely way that you absolutely, you can't do anything, but be on board with what he's doing. 435 00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:52.319 I mean, the thing is right, that her, she starts to smile, like here, in a way that lights up the room, she's really happy that she's learning to read and at the prospect of doing something other than just sitting in a series of rooms like a handmaid. 436 00:33:52.380 --> 00:34:03.000 Remember Handmaid's Tale is about the fact that, you know, um, that women who are uh, fertile are very rare. 437 00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:09.599 And so they're an adjunct to the sexual relationship between, you know, married couples who want to have children. 438 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:13.679 So there's very, very definite handmade tale stuff going on here. 439 00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:17.699 But are we supposed to endorse this? 440 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.639 Or are we supposed to reject it? 441 00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:28.380 Because clearly, that's what's interesting about this is, is it's kind of given you both options. 442 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:30.239 And you decide. 443 00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:32.099 I don't think it is. 444 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:41.519 I think it comes down very, very heavily on the side that it's Troop's fault and there would have been some simple ways of mitigating that and we'll get to it. 445 00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:42.900 Yeah, that's a shame. a shame. 446 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.840 Yeah, I think it's a real proper problem. 447 00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:53.639 And it's kind of like, well, we'll continue trading with Saudi Arabia because we need the oil and it doesn't matter how they oppress their women or whatever. 448 00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:55.079 You know, like... 449 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.099 That federation. 450 00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.059 I don't care you know. 451 00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:58.679 That's right. 452 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.780 Well, we don't have the Federation quite yet. 453 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.219 That'll be in about 8 years time. 454 00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:09.840 The very fact that he says later on, you know, like, let's not fall out over this little thing and he's talking about oppressing people. 455 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.059 Yeah, yeah. 456 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:21.300 Well, no, when he says this little thing, he means trip taking the cogenitor on board and teaching her to read and showing her movies. 457 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.500 That's the little thing. 458 00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:29.280 It's not the little thing is, let's not fall out over the fact that we keep 3% of our population in slavery. 459 00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:30.179 You know. 460 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.219 These sequences now, yeah, where he's showing her around the ship. 461 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:40.619 There's a subtle suspense to these scenes that I found absolutely gripping. 462 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:46.619 Because basically all he's doing is what we see every other week is someone coming to the ship and walking around it. 463 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:51.300 But there's a wrongness to it and you know you absolutely should not be doing this. 464 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:52.860 No. 465 00:35:52.920 --> 00:36:03.420 I think there's a shame too, because they actually, there's a scene that they just decide not to do, which is obviously the scene, where we get the news or where he's found out or whatever. 466 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:04.559 We don't get that. 467 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.579 We just go straight to Tucker being chewed out by Archer. 468 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:10.500 And I think that's a shame. 469 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:15.119 I think they kind of pump on that and they punt on another development later as well, I think. 470 00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:23.820 There's 2 criticisms that we made in Strange New World, which I want to address here, because I think they have made massive strides. 471 00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:27.300 One is just how visually dull it was. 472 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:29.039 Strangely world. 473 00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:31.860 And just how unambitious the visuals were. 474 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:40.679 Whereas I feel like there's a lot of effect sequences here, you know, they're trying to make it look as fun and as engaging as they possibly can. 475 00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:44.159 The other thing is just how bloody dreary a lot of these sets are. 476 00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:45.900 Well, I'll tell you now, I watch Regeneration. 477 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:53.219 I watched the expanse and I watched anomaly and they find a way of shooting those sets in a really dynamic way. 478 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.719 There's some action in anomaly. 479 00:36:54.780 --> 00:37:04.679 There's a 5 minute action sequence in engineering and the corridors where cameras are swooping through those. like a drone or something and they absolutely make it work. 480 00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:08.880 I, I, I like this engineering set. 481 00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:16.260 So this is, you know, the horizontal warp core like they have on, um, original series. 482 00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.639 But just the thing they're trying to sell it as a submarine. 483 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:26.460 And I think, you know, I'm growing to like the sets a bit more. 484 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.559 The problem is that gun metal gray everywhere. 485 00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:29.579 Gray. 486 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.340 Yeah, along with those boring plumbers outfits. 487 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.619 It's just all very montane looking. 488 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:36.179 Is it? 489 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:43.199 But there's always one thing I realised, though, watching kind of like a couple of enterprise episodes and, you know, good enterprise episodes. 490 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:53.340 I realised my big problem with this show is I just don't care about these characters in the way I do Voyager, DS9, next generation. 491 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.639 They're just not as likeable and they're just not as engaging. 492 00:37:56.639 --> 00:37:58.019 And for me, that is a problem. 493 00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:03.300 Just 12nd. trip, put the movie on full screen, you bastard. 494 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:04.440 What's wrong with you? 495 00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.199 We have the technology. 496 00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:09.420 And now look at this. 497 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.619 She's playing go. 498 00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:17.159 She's beating him at go and go is a much, much more complicated game than chess. 499 00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:20.400 Like she's already learned go in a day. 500 00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:24.239 So this is a woman who could a woman. 501 00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:27.900 This is a person who could do anything. 502 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.639 Yeah, it's an actress though, isn't it? 503 00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:31.199 He's an actress. yeah. 504 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:36.659 But who could do anything and she's just sitting in a room all day. 505 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.300 She eats and sleeps sometimes. 506 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.780 And look how animated she is. 507 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:43.920 Yeah. 508 00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:51.179 Well, I think I think the feeling you get from all of these scenes is there's just enormous potential for this person to grow, you know. 509 00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:57.780 And so there's no way that this is, that's what, sorry, that's what's annoying about the ending is Archer basically says no. 510 00:38:57.900 --> 00:38:58.920 You know? 511 00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:01.019 We're not going to let you grow. 512 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.079 We're gonna maintain this relationship when you're going back to your people. 513 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:08.039 Well, I don't think I think the relationship's broken. 514 00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:18.059 I think, um, but we don't see it, which is a problem, but we're told that the captain, that Drenik is furious when he calls them. 515 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:20.639 And so I think the relationship is called off at that point. 516 00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:30.599 And so this is the problem, that all of the toys and the technological advances and the cheese and the boning all stop because of what Tripp has done. 517 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:37.139 But how could the Federation maintain an amicable relationship with a society? 518 00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.000 How have they kept 3? 519 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:43.559 You know, now that they know, how are they doing? 520 00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:45.239 Yeah, yeah. 521 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.659 So remember the trade in Voyager? 522 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:49.800 Who are they? 523 00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:56.460 So they were a bunch of white people who, um, they initially liked. 524 00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:59.699 Yeah, and that they have caused the case on factions and stuff. 525 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:04.619 And initially they're lovely and we can get on and we can have an alliance and stuff. 526 00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:09.059 And then Janeway discovers that they've oppressed the Kazon and then it's off, right? 527 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:17.039 So having Drenik break the relationship off and not Archer, I think, is a problem as well. 528 00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:19.619 Well, do you know what? 529 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:28.860 Actually, alliances, that the episode that the trade were in, I would say it's nowhere near as subtly done as this. very kind of comic book. 530 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:30.059 But you know what? 531 00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:31.320 It's a lot more fun to watch. 532 00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:38.579 It's got a fabulous sequence at the end when occasion ship comes down or the tradeship comes down and tries to assassinate everybody and this piece comes from. 533 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:39.300 I mean it's amazing. 534 00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:53.940 But also as well, I really like it when they box the captain into a corner where they've got to make a tough choice or make, you know, one of 2 choices and neither of them are a good choice. 535 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.119 But you want them to make the better choice. 536 00:40:57.179 --> 00:40:58.079 Yeah. 537 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.960 And no one more often than not, they do, you know. 538 00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:03.119 And I don't think that happens here. 539 00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:04.920 Obviously, we're not there yet. 540 00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:07.800 But like it's like in, um, do you remember Chuvic's? 541 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:13.800 And I think that is a much better episode than people give it credit for. 542 00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:17.940 And Janeway's got to make, you know, he's basically saying, please don't kill me. 543 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:18.900 I'm a person. 544 00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:20.219 Now I'm a unique person. 545 00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:23.159 And she literally walks him through. 546 00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:25.079 Just forcibly drags him to the, yeah. 547 00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:27.780 Yeah, like at gunpoint. you know. 548 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:36.059 And he's like, you know, are you all going to stand there while she commits murder and he's crying and it's really, it's probably traumatic. 549 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.619 Um, I mean, this is a bit more subtle than that as well. 550 00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:41.820 Maybe boy just... 551 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:45.360 Yeah, yeah, maybe voyage is more of a cartoon than this. 552 00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:47.880 But that's not a criticism. 553 00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:55.440 So this, this is the 1st of 2 scenes where Archer choose, um, choose trip out. 554 00:41:55.500 --> 00:42:00.119 And they're both super uncomfortable to watch. 555 00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:07.199 Um, and, you know, Scott Bacular is one of the most charming and genial actors you can possibly imagine. 556 00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:12.000 So I just don't understand why he's being such a prick here. 557 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:21.059 Like the writing is so troubling, even bacular, can't salvage the character. 558 00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:28.500 I think he makes an acting choice a little bit later, which is attempting to remedy a script efficiency. 559 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:34.320 But it's very subtle and I could just be imagining it, but I'll talk about it. 560 00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:39.360 I mean, at least in anomaly that I watched, you know, he's supposed to be being an asshole. 561 00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:43.320 Like, like he's angry and he's reacting against the situation. 562 00:42:43.380 --> 00:42:51.420 Like in a strange new world and in this, like we said in Strange New Worlds, I think our sympathy is kind of supposed to be with him. 563 00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:53.760 Yeah, yeah. 564 00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:57.239 So this like, did she ask you to teach her how to read? 565 00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:17.699 It's kind of like he is yelling at her, for teaching someone to read, someone who is intelligent, who could benefit from it, who is forbidden, for no reason, uh, to read, uh, a feature of slavery in America in the last, you know, few centuries at this point. 566 00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.920 You know, like, I think it's bad. 567 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.480 I think it's a bad law. 568 00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:43.920 It is, but it does expose that, you know, the whole thing about Star Trek is to go out, seek out new civilisations, you know, Boldigo, where no man has gone before, and they've boxed him into a situation here where the nature of doing that and and learning from that species means that you you have to turn a blind eye to something. sacrifice your morals, basically. 569 00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:44.760 Yeah. 570 00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:45.840 Yeah. 571 00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:48.000 And so she's asking to stay. 572 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.219 And, like, why, why does he give her back? 573 00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:54.840 Why does he give Charles? 574 00:43:55.019 --> 00:44:00.360 Charles now even in the even in the subtitles I'm watching, which I just think is fantastic. 575 00:44:00.420 --> 00:44:02.280 I like how they've seen his play now. 576 00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:06.000 I know I know you're not keen on these 2 characters, these 2 imperial characters. 577 00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:07.800 I like to be unlikeable. 578 00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:09.900 Well, it's not hysterical though, is it? 579 00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.500 It would have been very easy to play all this, you know, at a hysterical level. 580 00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.739 And yet it's all just, it's just like intelligent conversation. 581 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.940 I quite like that. 582 00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:30.300 Yeah, I think, but I think too, it's kind of like, oh, well, you know, we have to enslave this person because we want to have children. 583 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:35.219 You know, like I just think it's gross and she is so awful. 584 00:44:35.340 --> 00:44:36.719 Yeah, my goodness. 585 00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:39.599 The performance is great and they found someone with the most... 586 00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:40.920 The weirdest looking eyes. 587 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:44.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah, plus the latest, doesn't she? 588 00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:47.039 I mean, she's such a fucking Karen. 589 00:44:47.099 --> 00:44:49.440 Like, she's such an entitled white lady. 590 00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:51.000 It's so bad. 591 00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:52.739 It's terrible. 592 00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:58.139 Oh, damn, a pair of them, honestly. 593 00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:03.960 Yeah, and I don't understand why Archer gives Charles back to them. 594 00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:05.460 I just don't understand it. 595 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:09.119 You know, she's asked for asylum. 596 00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:11.099 She is oppressed. 597 00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.920 You know, she, they don't fear reprisals. 598 00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:17.519 Like Andreas isn't going to come after them with a gunship and kill them. 599 00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:19.440 So what's the point? 600 00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:26.460 You know, like we want to maintain the relationship with this incredibly toxic society? 601 00:45:27.539 --> 00:45:29.639 I said to you, didn't I? 602 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:35.639 Picard, Kirk, Cisco, Janeway, they would have found a way, you know? 603 00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:42.659 And I, you know, you could point out loads of Star Trek episodes where people ask for asylum and they find a way. 604 00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.840 They find a way of resolving those stories unproblematic. 605 00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:46.260 Yeah. 606 00:45:46.260 --> 00:45:48.119 Do you remember, what's his name? 607 00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:58.980 Tosk in very early where he requests asylum and then O'Brien then releases him out of the prison so he can continue like the hum. 608 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:05.099 And then Cisco, Cisco says at the end, you know, you've you've destroyed a relationship with these people. 609 00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:08.699 How dare you, you know, get out of my office. 610 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:15.719 And then on the way out, he's like, um, O'Brien goes, well, how is it that you you didn't manage to stop us? 611 00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:19.920 Because I figured that as soon as you realised what I was doing, he was going, yeah, I guess that one got us by, didn't it? 612 00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:24.179 You know, and it's like, it's an acknowledgement that they did the right thing. 613 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.380 Yeah. 614 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:26.219 Yeah. 615 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:32.159 So, look, this is sort of super genial, even though we've had, you know, like an incident and stuff. 616 00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:33.780 He's still super happy. 617 00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:37.320 Drenik is still happy to continue the relationship. 618 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:44.760 Do you remember in, um, sorry, I've gone a bit everywhere else in this Star Trek apart from this episode, but it's an interesting parallel. 619 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:52.980 In TNG season one, where I said they were, you know, off around the universe, civilising societies and turning a blind eye weather down. 620 00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:54.599 Well, they're basically these people, aren't they? 621 00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:57.599 This alien race. 622 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:01.980 They can take a good look archer. 623 00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:06.119 This is what this is what the Federation is going to become, like this arrogant race. 624 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:08.699 Oh here's the dog. 625 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:09.179 Yeah. 626 00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:12.599 Well, he's very cute, the dog, though. 627 00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:17.400 But why is he sitting there with a fucking ball? 628 00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:20.940 Like an water polo ball on his stomach while he reads a ball? 629 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.139 an all American hero. 630 00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:22.739 That's why. 631 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.000 That's right. 632 00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:26.579 It's a lot too bookish. 633 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:30.659 Yeah, he's got a book and a ball. 634 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.840 He appears too intelligent, you know. 635 00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:45.000 And so we've now had the message, but we don't, again, don't get to see it and we don't get to see Drenik's reaction or anything like this. 636 00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:49.019 So this is the 2nd time that he gets chewed out. 637 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:55.079 And why does the cogenitor kill herself? 638 00:47:55.079 --> 00:48:12.119 And the answer is, because Archer refused to grant her asylum and she was aware that the slavery that she was going to live under for the rest of her life was not all that she was capable of. 639 00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:17.519 And so Archer and the Vicians are responsible for the suicide. 640 00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:20.760 And we don't get a hint of that from Archer at all. 641 00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:23.280 Archer doesn't say, I understand. 642 00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:28.500 Archer doesn't say the conditions that the congenitor was forced to live underwear intolerable. 643 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:33.059 He's just kind of there, another culture, and now I don't get to play with their toys anymore. 644 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.099 And I think it's disgusting. 645 00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:36.840 I think it's so bad. 646 00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:41.280 And the episode itself, all the criticism is pointed at Tripp. 647 00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:42.539 Yeah. 648 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:57.659 Archer doesn't even acknowledge what, you know, what trip was doing or that that was a competing and and, you know, possible ethical position to come to doesn't acknowledge it at all. doesn't say, I understand why you did this, but it was wrong. 649 00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:58.860 You know, like none of that. 650 00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:00.360 He just choose him out. 651 00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:03.300 You thought you were doing the right thing and now someone's dead. 652 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:07.260 And that horrible fucking couple's child will never be born. 653 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:08.760 That's the line, isn't it? 654 00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:10.199 That is the line. 655 00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:14.880 Yeah, we've got moral obligations to people who don't even exist. 656 00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:19.139 Like, what is going on over people that do? 657 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.239 Yes, that's right. 658 00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:22.139 That's right. 659 00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:26.940 The cogenitor, Charles has to sacrifice her freedom for the sake of this child that doesn't exist yet. 660 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.659 I do, all of that, I acknowledge. 661 00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:32.940 I do really like this scene now. 662 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:34.199 I don't like what it's saying. 663 00:49:34.619 --> 00:49:47.159 But I do like, I like the scene because when I watched it afterwards, I felt deeply uncomfortable about the episode and I do like it when TV pushes me in an area where I'm feeling a bit disconfident. 664 00:49:47.219 --> 00:49:53.400 But also it really made me think about everything that had played out and I'm like, well, who's right here? 665 00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:54.119 Who's right? 666 00:49:54.179 --> 00:49:57.059 And, you know, like we, and we had some discussion back and forth. 667 00:49:57.059 --> 00:49:58.739 And that's good Star Trek. 668 00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:00.480 Yeah, yeah. 669 00:50:00.539 --> 00:50:16.980 But also I do think that the politics of Voyager and Enterprise are not really the utopian kind of, you know, the socialist utopia of of Gene Roddenbury's Star Trek. 670 00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:18.900 I think it is much more conservative. 671 00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:23.099 And this becomes an analogue for America, I think. 672 00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:26.099 You know, I mean, our fleet's always that. 673 00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:28.199 The Federation's always America, really. 674 00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:41.940 But here there's a sort of deeply uncomfortable unwillingness to do anything about human rights in other countries that's being expressed here in a sort of Star Trek way. 675 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:47.760 I think the shittiest line there, like the worst line is about the unborn child. 676 00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:53.820 That is just, I was just like, oh, no, really like that's your argument. 677 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.679 It's not just unborn. 678 00:50:55.739 --> 00:50:56.820 It unconceived. 679 00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:57.960 Like there's no child. 680 00:50:58.019 --> 00:51:00.900 It's just an idea at this point, you know. 681 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:12.599 See, I was I was reading like anti-abortion things into that and that just made me feel super uncomfortable because I'm like, okay, these are the these are the people that have created this show, you know? 682 00:51:12.659 --> 00:51:13.380 Yeah. 683 00:51:13.500 --> 00:51:21.659 And it's, it's, like, should Star Trek ever be, um, you know, creative and written in such a conservative way. 684 00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:22.619 I don't think so. 685 00:51:22.739 --> 00:51:24.119 No. 686 00:51:24.179 --> 00:51:31.559 And I think increasingly, in the late 90s version of Star Trek, like in the late Berman era. 687 00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:34.380 I think that the politics do get more and more conservative. 688 00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:43.980 And like you were talking about, you know, we're responding to 9-11, and so it's okay for Archer to push people out of airlocks, you know, that sort of behaviour is justified because of 9-11. 689 00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:49.440 And given what happened after 911 and Abu Ghraib and all of those things. 690 00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:54.420 You know, it's a deeply problematic position to stake out and I don't really like it. 691 00:51:54.480 --> 00:52:03.360 But like also, Brannan Bragger had a big hand in latter-day TNG and in a lot of Voyager as well. 692 00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:06.239 And I don't think Voyages as conservative as this. 693 00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.659 I think it's a bit isolationist. 694 00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:15.059 I don't think it's deliberately conservative, but it's set in an area where basically aliens are out to get you. 695 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:21.539 And so it doesn't have that internationalist sort of viewpoint that discovery or next generation has. 696 00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:26.039 Whereas I think enterprise is far more Burman's, maybe. 697 00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:30.059 And this is this is the show he had the biggest creative hand in. 698 00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:38.880 I don't think he wrote a script for DSI and Voyager, whereas he's he's got a hand in writing probably about half the scripts of Enterprise, you know. 699 00:52:38.940 --> 00:52:40.619 This is his voice. 700 00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:42.119 Yeah, yeah. 701 00:52:42.179 --> 00:52:48.239 Well, and also Berman and Bragger remove themselves very much. 702 00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:59.039 I think Bragger's got a slight, he's like reading over scripts and things like this in season four, but essentially they have phoned out the series at that point. 703 00:52:59.099 --> 00:53:08.880 And that's the point where the show starts embracing a lot of the Star Trek idea, starts taking on more of a TOS feel. 704 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:12.539 And it's probably the show at its absolute best. 705 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:18.780 And probably as Bragg assess himself, an interview that I read this week, where the show should have started. 706 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:36.300 All right, it's time for us to choose our episode for next week, and I'm the one with my finger on the button today. 707 00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:41.820 I'm at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash Randomiser. 708 00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:43.260 I mean, you say episode. 709 00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:49.980 We've just had a slight discussion here and I question whether we are going to be watching an episode. of something. 710 00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:52.260 More like a little vignette. 711 00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:54.119 Yeah, yeah. 712 00:53:54.179 --> 00:53:57.960 So what we're going to do is we're going to choose a random short track. 713 00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:00.539 I really like the short tracks. 714 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:06.000 I think probably this is going to end up being a shorter podcast episode, but who knows what will happen? 715 00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:09.360 And I think some of them are really clever. 716 00:54:09.420 --> 00:54:14.639 I think some of them are funny and some of them, yeah, some of them are beautiful. 717 00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:16.739 So that's what we're going to go with. 718 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.780 Job knows nothing of these. 719 00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:21.420 Oh, you know, 10 minutes, 15 minutes sometimes. 720 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.039 Wow, we're going to say... 721 00:54:23.099 --> 00:54:25.019 You had to talk very quickly about them, then, aren't we? 722 00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:27.539 Well, we'll debrief. 723 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:30.480 We'll talk about it going in and then debrief. 724 00:54:30.539 --> 00:54:44.760 But I do think that they are an important feature of modern trek, that they have allowed trek the space to experiment a bit, and they have actually introduced plot elements that have made their way into discovery. 725 00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:48.360 So I think that they are worth a look. 726 00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:50.159 Are they broadcast? 727 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:54.719 I don't know Well, were they just online? 728 00:54:54.719 --> 00:55:07.019 Because I do have a bit of an issue with this, you know, because Doctor Who was doing this for a bit where they were writing like DVD extras, which absolutely dealt with emotional ramifications that should have been in episodes themselves. 729 00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:07.860 In the show. 730 00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:08.400 Yeah. 731 00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:10.500 I think that this does a better job than that. 732 00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:14.039 They are on when, well, when Discovery used to be on Netflix. 733 00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:16.980 They were in the additional scenes section. 734 00:55:16.980 --> 00:55:19.739 And so they have been on streaming. 735 00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:26.400 And I'll check when I do the randomiser and see if a broadcast date comes up because I think maybe they have broadcast dates. 736 00:55:26.460 --> 00:55:28.199 We'll do it. 737 00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:29.159 Okay. 738 00:55:29.219 --> 00:55:30.239 Shall I press a button? 739 00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:32.280 Just a very quick question. 740 00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:37.440 Does he cover like the length and breadth of Kurtzman Trek or are they just Discovery? 741 00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:38.340 Short tracks? 742 00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:40.199 No, there's a Picard one. 743 00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:51.960 There's a, um, So they, they accompany series one on two, so there's an introduction to Picard, and there are some animated ones. 744 00:55:52.019 --> 00:55:57.119 They're, yeah, it's it's mostly discovery, but it comes at it from an interesting angle, I think. 745 00:55:57.179 --> 00:55:57.900 Okay. 746 00:55:58.019 --> 00:55:59.639 All right. 747 00:55:59.699 --> 00:56:00.539 Okay. 748 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.760 So I'm going to press the button. 749 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.960 Runaway series one, episode one. 750 00:56:07.019 --> 00:56:07.920 Okay. 751 00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:09.119 Is that discovery? 752 00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:17.159 Yeah, it's Tilly and then the princess who turns up at the end of series one, I think. 753 00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:22.079 It was 1st broadcast on Thursday, the 4th of October 2018. 754 00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:24.119 So it does have a broadcast date. 755 00:56:24.179 --> 00:56:25.800 I'm going to roll again though. 756 00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:27.239 Oh, okay. 757 00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:28.139 Well, not that one. 758 00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:30.719 I don't really like it that much Oh my god. 759 00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:34.920 I think that's what we call in the trade cheap, you know. 760 00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:37.199 Well, this is the this is the thing. 761 00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:38.820 We re-roll if we don't want to do it. 762 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:42.300 The girl who made the stars, that's animated. 763 00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:42.719 Oh, great. 764 00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:43.079 Yeah. 765 00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:46.800 That was the 1st animated bit of trek, you know, I think. 766 00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:49.260 Well, apart from the animated series. 767 00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:50.460 Oh, yeah, whoops. 768 00:56:51.059 --> 00:56:54.539 The 1st since the 90s 60s. 769 00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.980 I'm going to roll just one more. 770 00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:56.820 Okay. 771 00:56:56.820 --> 00:57:01.860 I think that's very good, but, um, Huh. 772 00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:03.900 This is one that I actually haven't seen. 773 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:11.940 It's called The Escape Artist, and it features Harry Maud as played by Rain Wilson. 774 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.619 Oh, what leans into that fabulous season one episode of Discovery. 775 00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:22.619 Well, he's in a couple of episodes of Discovery, remember, in series one because Jason Isaacs meets him in prison. 776 00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:24.119 I can't even remember that character's name. 777 00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:27.719 There's one with a time loop, which is just the best episode of season one. 778 00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:28.440 Fantastic. 779 00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:29.460 It's fantastic. 780 00:57:29.579 --> 00:57:31.320 I'm going to roll one more. 781 00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:31.980 This is number four. 782 00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:32.820 Oh, my God. 783 00:57:32.820 --> 00:57:34.139 There's only 10 to seven. 784 00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:36.360 We can't do this now record yet. 785 00:57:36.420 --> 00:57:37.320 Go on. 786 00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:39.780 Okay, we're going to do children of Mars. 787 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.679 Okay. 788 00:57:40.739 --> 00:57:41.940 This is the last one. 789 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:50.039 Season two, episode six, 1st broadcast in 2020, January 2020, and it is the one that leads into Picard. 790 00:57:50.099 --> 00:57:52.139 Oh, how interesting. 791 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:53.460 Okay, yeah. 792 00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:56.039 Well, that would be our 1st taste of Picard, won't it? 793 00:57:56.099 --> 00:57:57.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 794 00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.460 I think that's going to be interesting. 795 00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:01.500 And perhaps challenging to talk about. 796 00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.619 Let's see how we go I'm there for it. 797 00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:17.400 You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. 798 00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:23.699 You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. 799 00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:29.519 Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. 800 00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:35.340 This episode was recorded on the 5th of January 2022 and released on the 28th of January. 801 00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:39.840 We'll see you next time for Short Treks, Children of Marlas.