WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:50:39

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Hi, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are doing an episode of Discovery this week.

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It's Discovery season four, episode one, Kobayashi Maru, and I

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can't remember when this came out, but I'm thinking probably 2021

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or something like that.

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New enough to still feel very new indeed.

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Yeah, no, exactly.

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And I have watched it a few times since then.

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Discovery's a bit of a funny thing because the main unit of

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narrative is the season really rather than the episode.

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And so you always feel like you're embarking on a big thing, but

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this is reasonably self-contained despite all the plot admin that

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it needs to do.

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It manages to tell a sort of satisfying story and ends with a

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pretty great cliffhanger.

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How did you find this episode?

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I enjoyed this episode scene to scene, and afterwards, I thought, I

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don't think I'm going to remember much about this episode at all

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and I think that is a problem with these season-long arcs, is, of

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course, I'm going to remember concept of the week, next generation

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episodes, because it is unique unto itself, whereas this is part

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of a larger narrative.

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But that is, you'll say to me in a year's time, Kubayashi Maru, and

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I'll say, which discovery episode was that again?

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You know, you'll say remember me and I'll go, oh, that's the one

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where Dr. Beverly was being sucked into all those lights, you

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know.

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Yeah.

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And the other thing that I sort of came away from this was

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discovery isn't really my Star Trek.

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And I realise I've said this 2 weeks on the trot now.

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And it's the 2nd week I've said it where the episode has been very

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Star Treky indeed.

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And I do not want the listeners of Star Trek project to think, I

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don't like any Star Trek, but I realise that I am coming across

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that way.

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So before we even embark on the episode, will you please just give

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me a moment to explain the sort of Star Trek that I do like?

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Yeah, I've assembled a very small list.

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There isn't anything like Quality of Life and Kubayashi Maru.

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Is a night in Sick Bay on the list?

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Oh, it could be, actually, under one of these subheadings, yes.

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Okay.

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So I've decided my sort of Star Trek is high concept episodes, like

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Mirror, Mirror, Frame of Mind, Children of Time, Blink of an Eye

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character dramas, like chain of command, chimaera, and 17

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seconds.

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Day in the Life episodes, like Day to Day, Whispers and Tinker

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Tenor, Doctor Spy, Empire spanning, and that's mostly sort of DS9

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4 to 6, and some of Discovery.

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Something to say episodes, like Past Tense and Darbok, Comedy

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episodes, like Trouble with Tribbles, DejRQ, the Magnificent

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Ferengi, Spock a Mock, all of Lower Decks, I put, all of it.

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Parcel episodes like Remember Me, Clues, Civil Defence, and

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especially Truly Abysmal Trek Schlock episodes like Sub Rosa

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Fascination, and Warlord, and I suppose we could throw in a night

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in Sick Bay in there as well.

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So there are lots of facets of Star Trek.

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And some of those things are unique to Star Trek.

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Some of them aren't that I do really, really like.

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I think the sort of Star Trek I don't like is the sort of Star

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Trek you love, which is, and you said it perfectly in quality of

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life.

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It's people pleasantly coming together either to solve some sort

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of a problem or, you know, to say something.

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But doing it in a positive, affirming way.

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And there was a bit of that going on in the 1st half of this

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episode and I was sort of looking at my watch going, come on now

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when a planet's going to start exploding.

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Let's get on with it.

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Yeah, you see, it's the competent people solving space problems is

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what I like.

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But the other thing that I like, in a really unironic way, is just

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the ethics of the Federation.

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And, you know, that was always something that we kind of read into

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original series.

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It's not quite there.

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It's more there in Star Trek The Next Generation, which is all

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about building alliances and stuff like that, achieving things

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through diplomacy.

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But I think discovery kicks it up a level to the point where

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you've got this crew that all love each other and constantly tell

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one another how much they love each other.

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Yeah, next journey.

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That's more a bureaucratic approach.

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That discovery is a more sentimental approach.

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Yeah, and because they've been thrown into the future together and

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they have each other and stuff.

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And so they're kind of like a family.

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They seem to have gotten over that, though, Nathan.

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I did notice in this, no one seems to be too worried anymore, that

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they're away from all their family and friends in the past now.

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No, that's right.

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They are. yeah that's right.

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And also the stuff just about the Federation reaching out.

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You know, the the idea of rebuilding the federation, which means

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that we get to see them making connections with other people and

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trying to win people over through kindness rather than sort of

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military strategy or or being tactical or politics.

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I love that And I think the reason that it's not what you love.

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And I think the reason that I love it is that if I want sort of

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real politic and manipulation and kind of, you know, miserable

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people being horrible to one another, well, I've got real life for

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that.

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And, and... previous form of doing those things extremely well and

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creating very good television through them.

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But I think that I like it that Star Trek leans into this.

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You know, it can do other things, and I think in the 90s where, you

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know, it was the end of history and everyone was very complacent

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and, you know, America probably needed to remember that it still

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was involved in sort of military expeditions and was still a kind

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of large scary empire. that didn't really necessarily live up to

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the ideals that thought it lived up to.

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And that's what Deep Space 9 is often doing.

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But this is Star Trek for the Trump era, and it very definitely is

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saying, no, we don't have to behave like that.

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We can actually prosper and benefit from sticking to our ideals

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rather than having to jettison them when it becomes complicated.

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And, you know, Deep Stace Night does have a tendency to sort of

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think that being kind and stuff like that is all very well, but

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you have to be terrible.

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And I just think, let's have Star Trek is the one series where

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that's not the case.

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And there is a little bit of a room for maneuver in this episode

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and I think the conflict between Relax and Michael is interesting

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but, you know, there's nothing that quite compares to sort of

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Garrett blowing up that Romulan senator and his attractive

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bodyguard in the pale moonlight.

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Unsurprisingly, that scene with Relak at the end was my favourite

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part of this entire episode where there was a bit of conflict.

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It is really great.

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But also as well, I mean, I do understand where you're coming

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from.

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And I do think there is like a corner of Star Trek fandom that

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agrees with you.

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You can go too far with this bleeding heart approach, though, as

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well.

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And there's some episodes of discovery where you're drowning in

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syrup from them all hugging each other and oh, we all and I'm

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starfleet.

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Oh, fucking hell.

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Get over yourselves, all right?

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I just want someone to blow the fucking ship up half the time.

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They're so in love with each other and the universe and spreading

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them. can be a bit much.

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It can be.

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I think it's fantastic.

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And I have to say, like, the one that you're thinking of, the one

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that we did forget me not, which is in series 3, where they're all

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hugging at the end and they have movie night suggested by Zora and

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everyone's friends again.

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No, I like that one. that does happen in the context of stress and

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conflict between the crew.

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I'm talking about that one at the end of episode series 2 where

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just before they go off on the terrified mission in the last

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episode, the penultimate episode is the whole crew telling each

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other they love each other and hugging for an hour.

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It's interminable.

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Yeah, yeah, that's not the best.

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Star Trek Discovery.

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I have to say.

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That is fair enough.

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There is a lot of standing around talking about love and stuff and

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it is a little bit much.

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But I do think there's a point to be made about people's reaction

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to discovery because, and you and I are a good example because you

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really like it, even though you think it's flawed.

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I'm less keen, like a lot of very vocal people in Star Trek

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fandom.

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But unlike those people, I think there is a space for this.

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And I think it's an interesting show and I think it does a lot of

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really good things and it really irritates me because I see it

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more and more online.

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People just dismissing 5 years of Star Trek as woke nonsense.

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It really annoys me.

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Whereas I do think this is a bit woken a bit too twee. and not

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really the trek I want to watch.

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Fuck me, go and watch these 5 seasons, right?

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The production values, the performances, you know, the different

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approaches that they took.

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There's so much to talk about in discovery as they sort of try and

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figure out what they're doing.

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And I think they have landed on something in three, four, and five

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where they're quite confident, you know, and they know what

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they're doing.

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And according to you, this season, you know, is the best season of

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all, where they have this big, huge science fiction idea at his

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heart and you can see it for me in this episode, you know, with

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that brilliant cliffhanger at the end of the episode.

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Yeah, I just, it does bother me.

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It bothers me that people think what I think.

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But they won't give this a chance at all.

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You know, they reject it outright because it's saying positive

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things.

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Yeah.

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Oh, and and of course, because the usual fan backlash against, you

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know, having sort of women and non-binary people in the show, you

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know, we had one woman in in original track and that's all we

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needed, you know, she don't get a line off the time.

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No, that's right.

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So, so, you know, one of the things that I did fear when Strange

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New Worlds came along was that it would be Trad, Star Trek, for

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the people who objected to having a black lady as the main

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character.

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Fabulous women.

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More women than men in the opening credits.

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Are they all prior, loyal?

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Yep.

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So good.

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So good.

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All right.

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I think we should go in. do you think?

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Well, there's one last thing to say, of course, and that is, you

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pointed this out last week when we chose the episode.

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This is, in fact, series two, episode one of Star Trek Discovery.

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So I feel as if we should watch it and see if you're, well, you

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love series 2 episodes, don't you?

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to see how they adjust to the new format.

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Yeah, yeah.

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We'll definitely talk about that.

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All right, I will count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

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Can I do it just because I miss it?

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da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, There we go.

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So we do get a, um, previously on Star Trek Discovery, which

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obviously we need to do.

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But it is a little bit of a shame because I actually think the

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opening scene does a tremendous job reintroducing the show and it

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does that by just doing a Star Trek episode in about 5 minutes.

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It's really, really good.

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We'll get there in a 2nd because we're still recapping last

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season.

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It does strike me, you know, that every time Discovery does want

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to make, you know, the Federation and and this overarching

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happiness amongst the...

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Well, 1st of all, they do the burn and blow up every starship we

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ever had.

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So that, yeah, that sort of put a crimp in the Federation's plans

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for a little while.

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Now they've started destroying entire planets.

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You know?

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The sensor cannot hold, can it?

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Yeah, well, I mean, things have to happen.

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Not according to you, they don't.

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No, I think things have to happen.

246
00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.080
But what happens is that our characters work together to overcome

247
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.779
them and that's where the drama lies.

248
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.720
And drama doesn't lie in them bitching at each other all the

249
00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:07.259
time.

250
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.820
Um, although sometimes that's fun and certainly we see in this

251
00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:16.740
episode, we see Relic and Michael having different viewpoints on

252
00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:17.519
an important issue.

253
00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:19.019
He's Michael.

254
00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:22.740
Oh, she is taken for that. where we always knew she was going to

255
00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:22.980
end up.

256
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.139
That beautiful smile.

257
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:26.460
Gosh, she's a beautiful woman.

258
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.200
I liked her in series one, you know, where she was on the back.

259
00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:31.559
Yeah.

260
00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:32.399
Yeah, yeah.

261
00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:33.720
No, I don't.

262
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:34.320
I don't.

263
00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:35.639
I much prefer her now.

264
00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:38.340
Now she's now she's a bit more emotional.

265
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:43.559
So we are now on the planet Al Shane 4, and we are about to have

266
00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:49.320
this thing where we do an episode of Star Trek in the in the

267
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:50.100
opening tea.

268
00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.340
Look at the ship just coming apart for absolutely no reason.

269
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:53.879
It's so good.

270
00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:57.179
So we see these Discovery always does visuals for no reasons, but

271
00:13:57.179 --> 00:13:57.659
they just look cool.

272
00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:00.779
The butterfly satellites around the ship, around the planet.

273
00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:04.019
The jets that look like they're made of brass. on the planet now.

274
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.379
Let's not forget all those 90s episodes when they go down to a

275
00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:09.360
planet and it's just the rocking runabout, you know.

276
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:10.200
Yep.

277
00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:14.700
There we see a butterfly coming out of its chrysalis, which is

278
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:18.779
obviously a metaphor for what's about to happen here and important

279
00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:22.080
visual, which becomes important because the people here are

280
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:22.799
butterflies.

281
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.759
I mean, they do look a bit like 90 straight aliens, which I did

282
00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:27.000
like.

283
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:28.019
Yeah, yeah, they do.

284
00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:32.700
But what's great about it too, is that just, um, they are not all

285
00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:35.580
white people and they don't all look like white people.

286
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.759
They not, you know, made to look like white people and it is just

287
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:41.879
like their people and so they're diverse and that's pretty

288
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:42.240
awesome.

289
00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.639
But dreadful costumes, though.

290
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:48.899
But the costumes reflect like they look like the wings of

291
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:49.620
butterflies.

292
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:50.340
Do you know what I mean?

293
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.220
Like there's an element of that in the in the design of the

294
00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:53.700
alien.

295
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:56.279
You think they're going to be shitty 90s costumes and then all the

296
00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:00.120
butterflies come along and create enormous glowing wings for them

297
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.559
and it looks fabulous.

298
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.779
Although, I've got to say, I will say, I don't, I think they want

299
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:10.980
this to be really very funny, and it's not quite as funny as they

300
00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:11.519
think it is.

301
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:13.139
But it is fun.

302
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:14.100
It's light.

303
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.580
I think, you know, like it's not super funny, but it is light.

304
00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:19.620
And what it does.

305
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.220
We see, I also like the fact that they expect that this alien

306
00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:25.919
won't know what no strings attached to me.

307
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.139
And he kind of goes, yeah, no I know that.

308
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.379
And then he makes the gag, you know, I'm going to give you

309
00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:35.399
dilithium all for the low, low price of no strings attached.

310
00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:39.360
So he doesn't talk like a space person from 90s trek.

311
00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:41.399
He talks like a normal person which is pretty good.

312
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:44.039
There's a couple of moments in this, you know, where I thought

313
00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:47.700
people were going to talk like 90s trek characters and then they

314
00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:49.019
swear or something like that.

315
00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:50.700
And I'm like, oh, WhatsApp him.

316
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.559
Yeah, that's really good.

317
00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:57.299
And so the whole mission goes wrong because grudge is on the ship

318
00:15:57.299 --> 00:16:01.679
and the description of grudge, you know, oh, I feed her, I look

319
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:02.159
after her.

320
00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:03.240
Does she appreciate it?

321
00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:03.659
No.

322
00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:05.100
You know, it's like...

323
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:08.039
They learn nothing from bringing that dog on there, all the

324
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:09.600
missions in Star Again Surprise.

325
00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:10.320
Come on.

326
00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:14.159
I do like all this sort of stuff flying in the air around them.

327
00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:15.840
Yeah, dust particle.

328
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:16.799
It's like snow isn't it?

329
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:17.460
gorgeous.

330
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:18.419
It makes it real.

331
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.460
Like, I think the environment looks incredible.

332
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:24.179
It's dark. you know, we're clearly in the studio but it just looks

333
00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:25.740
amazingly good.

334
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.600
Um, can I talk about um, the visual realisation now?

335
00:16:30.659 --> 00:16:32.940
Because I've got a few things to say about this action that's

336
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:33.360
coming up.

337
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.340
I know you're just going to say that I'm an old man and I can't

338
00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:44.519
handle snappily edited television because I was very confused at

339
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.120
points as to what was going on because the editing was so fast.

340
00:16:48.179 --> 00:16:50.519
We were cutting from bit to bit to bit to bit to bit to bit to bit

341
00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:51.179
so far.

342
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.820
So I was like, I'm not entirely sure what's going on.

343
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.519
And I wondered if it was my problem.

344
00:16:56.580 --> 00:16:59.879
And then I watched an episode of Obi-Wan Kenobi yesterday, which

345
00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:06.359
had a similarly very expensive fast-paced action in it, but I was

346
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.299
so, it was so clear what was going on.

347
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:14.579
And I do, I do think it's not so much the action is the editing

348
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:15.900
that I object to.

349
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:16.980
Right.

350
00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:18.960
Well, I mean, this looks great.

351
00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:19.799
We are on location.

352
00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:21.059
We're not in the studio here.

353
00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:23.700
The aerial view shot of the forest.

354
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:25.740
It's gorgeous. just incredible.

355
00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.299
And then they leap down and land in this, you know, thing which is

356
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:30.779
pretty great.

357
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.480
Why did you say can't of order the butterfly people?

358
00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:36.180
Why do you even have a pet?

359
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.160
Just have a holographic goldfish.

360
00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:39.299
Like the doctor?

361
00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:42.660
Because no, the cat ate the goldfish.

362
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:47.579
See, this is kind of fun and it's the 2 of them having fun.

363
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.160
They're great together as well, the 2 of them.

364
00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:51.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

365
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:54.539
And of course, this primary relationship is going to break up

366
00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:59.099
midseason in the 2 episodes that we've already seen, remember?

367
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.759
But to connect and then all in, where the episode breaks up for

368
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:03.660
political reasons.

369
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:08.759
And it's the same argument that they're actually having here, where

370
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.099
he says that we just need to get out of here, we can't afford to

371
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:16.440
be all federation in, give them things.

372
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:20.579
So what, what, what's about to happen is she's going to realise

373
00:18:20.579 --> 00:18:25.380
that they, they aren't firing on them and they're not flying

374
00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:29.099
straight because something's happening to the satellites in

375
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:30.000
orbit.

376
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.160
And so she's going to fix the satellites to help them.

377
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.079
And he says that's a shitty idea.

378
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:36.599
And it's like, no, no, we have the Federation.

379
00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:37.500
We're here to help out.

380
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.660
We're here to build bridges.

381
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.759
And he says, no, it's not safe.

382
00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:42.480
We shouldn't do it.

383
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:45.599
And that's exactly the argument, that breaks them up. in the

384
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:46.319
middle of the season.

385
00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:47.339
I thought that was very good.

386
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.819
Except this is over our sort of fluffy set piece and the later

387
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:54.299
argument is over the destruction of his world and the people that

388
00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:54.660
did it.

389
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.599
Oh, I still don't know who they are. still don't know.

390
00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:58.619
No.

391
00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:00.180
This is great.

392
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:05.220
Now we're back on discovery, and in this very quickly... where

393
00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:10.259
they're sciencing in order to solve the problem and they're doing

394
00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:14.519
real science rather than just metaphasic science rather than just

395
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:16.500
sort of bullshit made up words.

396
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:17.039
You know?

397
00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:19.259
all of my favourites as well.

398
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.660
It's a deer, it's stamets, and it's Tilly.

399
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

400
00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.119
And they're excited.

401
00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:27.420
They love, they love the sciencing, you know.

402
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:28.500
It's...

403
00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:30.299
Look at the 2 of them.

404
00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.119
She's so cute, isn't she?

405
00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:36.539
I love it when they say the techna bubble at the same time, you

406
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:36.720
know?

407
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.640
And then they're so excited.

408
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:39.960
They've reached a safe conclusion.

409
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:41.220
It's wonderful.

410
00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:44.819
Oh, and I've realised in this episode as well, I like these 2 on

411
00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:46.019
you know, on the bridge as well.

412
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.039
What are the names?

413
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:47.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

414
00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:49.079
I won't, yeah.

415
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:52.619
They're sort of getting a bigger slice on the pie as we go along.

416
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.740
Yeah, because the intention, I think, originally was that they

417
00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:56.819
were just scenery.

418
00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:01.440
And in fact, we get a little bit about Bryce and Christopher, too.

419
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:05.339
So Bryce starts to disappear and he's the sort of, I think he's

420
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:06.720
communications or something.

421
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:12.299
He's like a, um, he's a sort of tall black guy with a beard and

422
00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:15.900
then there's a shorter guy who look at the dots repairing the

423
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:16.500
cellar.

424
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.599
Yeah, it's good. so good.

425
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:20.220
You could put this on the big screen.

426
00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:21.839
You know, it looks fabulous.

427
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.039
I just was a bit confused in places.

428
00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:28.140
Now they can aim.

429
00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:29.039
Yeah?

430
00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:31.319
Look at her smiling.

431
00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:32.279
That's the other thing.

432
00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:34.319
It's so much fun watching her have fun.

433
00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:36.299
You know, like she's chill.

434
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:37.019
She's fun.

435
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.680
She, you know, they're having an action adventure thing.

436
00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:48.059
But a lot of the stuff she does in this pre-tartle sequence are

437
00:20:48.059 --> 00:20:50.880
things that are criticised of her later in the episode.

438
00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:54.539
Yeah, about her going down on dangerous missions and things like

439
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:55.200
this, you know?

440
00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.420
So I'm glad that we do get to see some of it.

441
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.880
Otherwise, it would feel as if the president is just picking on

442
00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:00.059
that.

443
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:01.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:03.180
But this is kind of the status quo.

445
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:04.200
This is what they've been doing.

446
00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:08.039
Like this, you know, this version of Discovery gets interrupted by

447
00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:09.119
the anomaly at the end.

448
00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:11.099
But this is what we're doing.

449
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.420
And that moment, I just think that moment where she just goes, here

450
00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:19.200
have the dilithium and he just looks at her and can't believe it.

451
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:21.420
And do you know what I mean?

452
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.339
It's just like, here, have some time with him.

453
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.559
He doesn't even say anything and then we leave.

454
00:21:25.619 --> 00:21:28.920
We're going to fix your satellites and we're giving you the

455
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:30.720
dilithium and we'll see you later.

456
00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:32.400
And I just think that's so good.

457
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:35.819
You know, like, that's so great. here she is.

458
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:37.980
She just looks so fucking smart.

459
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.200
I just want to wipe that smile off her.

460
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:41.339
I love her.

461
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:42.420
She's so beautiful.

462
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:47.940
And like, there's Christopher, by the way, that who's replacing

463
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:48.599
Bryce.

464
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:51.240
And so they get...

465
00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:51.900
Does he do much?

466
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:52.319
Yeah.

467
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:53.880
No, he's only turned up.

468
00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:55.259
He's starting to turn up.

469
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:56.460
Series five.

470
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.559
You know, they couldn't get all the regulars for the whole

471
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.920
season.

472
00:21:58.980 --> 00:22:01.980
So was they giving Dittmer and Owe more to do then that season?

473
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.740
No way, Detmer and I won't go off.

474
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.319
Oh, she was...

475
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.359
What happens when you have all those years between seasons, you

476
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:10.200
know, people get other work?

477
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:11.460
Yeah, well, that was it.

478
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:12.420
Oh, that was it.

479
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:16.680
You know, we had COVID, which we will mention a little bit later.

480
00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:17.940
Come on.

481
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.819
What was that alien on the bridge, though, with a head like an

482
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:21.599
enormous arse?

483
00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:22.680
I know.

484
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:23.519
I know.

485
00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:23.940
What was that?

486
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.019
I don't know.

487
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.140
Somebody from the future Federation that we've not...

488
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:34.079
Yeah, we've never spoken to properly yet. because they have Linus

489
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:34.440
remember?

490
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:36.119
is the saurian.

491
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:39.720
And I think they did have a big-headed alien in the 23rd century

492
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:40.980
in seasons one and two.

493
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.799
Well, the thing I'll definitely say about discovery at this point

494
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:45.779
is they've nailed the regulars.

495
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.859
Like, they, you know, they kind of rejected having a crew in

496
00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:50.940
series one, didn't they?

497
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.779
and it was sort of people coming and going and absolute arseholes

498
00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:57.539
in charge and all of those things we don't do on Star Trek.

499
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.119
Then they decided, no, actually, we're going to make Star Trek

500
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:02.400
because nobody really likes that, except Nation Bottomley.

501
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:07.799
And so now by this point, they have pulled together a crew with

502
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.640
great chemistry, but just really distinct personalities as well.

503
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:15.480
When you get to an episode, like the one we did, the one just

504
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.319
before the mid-season break, but to connect.

505
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:22.559
Yeah, where, you know, you're doing therapy sessions and things

506
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.160
like this, and you can just see how those characters are like

507
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.059
reaping rewards.

508
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:29.039
Yeah.

509
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.000
Yeah.

510
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:34.200
And like, that's what always happens because I don't watch

511
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.259
Discovery all that often, but when I come back, It's kind of like

512
00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:38.880
oh, I like spending time here.

513
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:40.859
I like these people.

514
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.880
You know, it's, it's, it's nice, I think.

515
00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:45.720
I should...

516
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.900
I like spending time with these people, but I just wouldn't wish

517
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:50.640
more terrible things would happen to them.

518
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:52.619
Well, I know terrible things happen.

519
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.720
You've seen the...

520
00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:57.720
Oh, yeah, it sounds great.

521
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:03.240
Now we're underwater on caminar and I can't remember quite what's

522
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:03.900
happened here.

523
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:09.299
There's a short trek, um, said on Kamenawa, we get a bit of Saru's

524
00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:14.700
backstory, and his people, the Kelbians, were, um, obviously the

525
00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:21.480
prey to these monsters that we see floating outside the window, uh

526
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:26.220
and they preyed on them, like just use them as food and oppressed

527
00:24:26.220 --> 00:24:28.740
them and stuff, but now they're working together.

528
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.960
I will say this.

529
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:33.420
The CGI coming down was gorgeous.

530
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:38.039
The design here, the set is beautiful, the prosthetics are

531
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.640
absolutely stunning, but I really couldn't give a shit about any

532
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:42.480
of these scenes.

533
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:45.720
I was like, I'm not sure why this is relevant at all to this

534
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:46.140
episode.

535
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:50.519
Yeah, so this is some of the plot admin that they have to do as

536
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:56.220
sort of winding up what happens at the end of series 3.

537
00:24:56.220 --> 00:25:00.660
And I think that they need to establish that no one is being

538
00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:03.720
unkind to Sukal because of his role in the burn.

539
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:09.720
And also what we're having here is a conversation that is

540
00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:13.019
thematically linked to what's going on in the rest of the story

541
00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:18.779
because it's, It's about what we're doing in the Federation.

542
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:24.180
And so he's a hologram of caminar, and then we're going to see a

543
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.960
hologram of the system, and then we're going to see a hologram of

544
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:33.420
the galaxy, which he describes as an island, beyond which is space

545
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:36.240
and that island is where we all live.

546
00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:42.539
And I think, you know, like that, you know, because that's how we

547
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:45.839
should be regarding the world that we live in now, you know, in

548
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.920
the 21st century, is it's an island that we all share that we're

549
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.619
all on and that we all have a part of.

550
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:57.420
And this is just him stating absolutely what Star Trek is about.

551
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.240
Maybe that was my problem then.

552
00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:03.839
Yeah, yeah, but I love the...

553
00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:07.319
It's just people in a ton of latex talking space stuff.

554
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:08.519
You know me.

555
00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:09.960
That just isn't that.

556
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:12.900
I mean, I'm a fan of sci-fi, I think.

557
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:16.980
But look at how beautiful it is.

558
00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:19.680
I love the dogs delivering that speech.

559
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:22.200
Look, that dot just goes past the scene.

560
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:22.740
No reason at all.

561
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.240
Yeah, I love it.

562
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.119
It reminds me because I've just watched the Star Wars movies this

563
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:27.359
week.

564
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.880
I watched Empire Strikes Back in the cinema and you've just got

565
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:34.259
random sort of, they look like little dustbins going around the

566
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:36.119
set for no reason whatsoever, you know?

567
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.180
Of course you should have little touches like that.

568
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:42.599
God, these 2 are... together, are they?

569
00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:43.200
Ridiculous.

570
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:48.119
This description here, there's her growly face and he goes, you

571
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.019
get that 11 between your eyebrows and she has like a little 11

572
00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:53.519
between her eyes.

573
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.299
A trible.

574
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:57.180
She's a tribble and past. don't know why.

575
00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:00.240
No, I brought back from extinction.

576
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:05.579
Like, they truly are embracing Star Trek at this point, aren't

577
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:05.759
they?

578
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:06.599
Disgusting.

579
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:07.200
Oh, yeah, yeah.

580
00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:08.220
Oh, absolutely.

581
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:09.059
But it always was.

582
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:09.900
Do you know what I mean?

583
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.539
It was set 10 years before original Trek.

584
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:14.279
It was as Star Trek as possible.

585
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:18.779
It had Klingon to sort of aliens that we were scared of, you know

586
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:21.240
like it, it was properly Star Trek originally.

587
00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:24.960
But it was, I think it was rejecting some of the conventions of

588
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:27.599
Star Trek in that 1st series. ain't doing that anymore.

589
00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:29.700
Well, yes, that's right.

590
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:30.299
That's right.

591
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.720
It still kind of rejects the narrative conventions, but absolutely

592
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:39.240
the idea that it's the story of a crew on a ship centring around

593
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.220
the captain, which it wasn't at all.

594
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:46.019
Yeah, see, even you get booked calling her captain just then

595
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:46.980
as...

596
00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:48.900
I mean, he literally could have just walked opposite that.

597
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.599
He walked into that by there was DOS everywhere.

598
00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:53.819
People, everyone, HQ.

599
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:54.599
Oh, no.

600
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:57.299
They just they love putting the money on the screen in this show

601
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:57.960
good.

602
00:27:58.019 --> 00:27:58.859
I'm pleased they do.

603
00:27:58.920 --> 00:27:59.640
Yeah.

604
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.980
So here we are.

605
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.440
This is the beginning of Starfleet Academy, which is just

606
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.079
reopening after 125 years or something.

607
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:09.420
And we're talking about Star Trek Academy.

608
00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.000
We're going to be seeing the new series, is it?

609
00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:12.660
Yes.

610
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.160
Is this one, the future one?

611
00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:18.599
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be Tilly's in it.

612
00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:22.200
Oh, why did I think it was going to be 90s trek?

613
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.579
Oh, because Robert Picardo's in it, but my theory is that Robert

614
00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:31.200
Picardo is the version of the doctor from distant origin.

615
00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:35.519
No, from Living Witness, from Living Witness, which is also said

616
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:36.779
in the 32nd century.

617
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:40.140
I mean, he's a hologram. could have just, you know, they just kept

618
00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:40.559
using it.

619
00:28:40.619 --> 00:28:41.160
Yeah, yeah.

620
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:46.440
Um, the other thing is that visible among the cadets here is a

621
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:53.039
Telleride, um, and he will come back in Tilly's last regular

622
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.740
episode, which is called all is possible.

623
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:59.579
And that's a quote from Michael's speech here.

624
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:03.779
Um, and so, oh, here we get, Relick, for the 1st time.

625
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.400
Oh, yay.

626
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:06.839
Applause, applause, applause.

627
00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:07.799
Someone kill them all.

628
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.660
Yeah, she's so good.

629
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.599
Yeah, so it's just all started nice to me at this point.

630
00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:16.500
There's a Starfleet Academy episode coming up and that Tellorite

631
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:19.859
character will be in it playing a big role and that's quite a good

632
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:20.339
episode.

633
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:24.119
I just like the idea of the president going along on the ship in

634
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:29.579
this episode and observing everything, proving absolutely vital to

635
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.880
the mission because if that didn't happen, it's like, well, why is

636
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.240
she there?

637
00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:37.500
And but also then critiquing several things as well.

638
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.339
I do think I think that takes the edge off the tweeness of it.

639
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:47.099
I think I think what's good here too, is that she's like, Michael

640
00:29:47.099 --> 00:29:50.700
is suspicious of her and says, you know, she's just a politician.

641
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:52.980
She's here to get the limelight.

642
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:55.619
And so that's why she's here.

643
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.779
And what does she do?

644
00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:01.440
She comes, she talks about giving dilithium to people.

645
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:03.539
She talks about the mission that Michael's just been on.

646
00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:07.740
She talks about, you know, Michael. like all of this proper

647
00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:08.700
stuff.

648
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:10.559
She's not a federation.

649
00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:12.839
You know, but she's...

650
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:14.400
She's not like a politician.

651
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:16.799
Well, yeah, but she's not like these prick politicians you get in

652
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:19.079
the 90s that are just there to complicate the plot.

653
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:20.640
She's also very wise.

654
00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:21.839
The things that she says.

655
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:23.819
The critiques that she makes are valid.

656
00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:28.980
Yeah, but this is her absolutely saying, I believe in the ideals

657
00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:29.940
of Star Trek.

658
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.359
I respect what, you know, Captain Burnham and the crew of the

659
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:34.319
Discovery have done.

660
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:40.259
And, well, look at her, she's a big fan of Star Trek Enterprise as

661
00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:40.500
well.

662
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:47.279
And...

663
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:48.359
We actually did that.

664
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:49.380
There's our Telleride.

665
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.279
Yeah, we actually do that, which I think is great.

666
00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:56.880
Also, to Nathan, I was looking at my phone when this bit came on.

667
00:30:56.940 --> 00:30:57.900
I can't remember why now.

668
00:30:57.960 --> 00:30:59.819
I think I was probably reading Jammer's review.

669
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:03.180
And this music came on and suddenly my head snapped around.

670
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:04.200
I was like, what's going on?

671
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:06.720
Good.

672
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:10.380
I think that's Voyager up there.

673
00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:11.519
I just love those dots.

674
00:31:11.579 --> 00:31:13.980
Can't we have an episode all about the dots?

675
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:15.059
We do.

676
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:15.960
There's a short trick.

677
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:19.079
Oh, fabulous. about the dot a dot.

678
00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:24.359
So this is Lieutenant Christopher, I want to say, and Lieutenant

679
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:25.500
Bryce.

680
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.640
Bryce is the one on the right and the 2 of them alternate a bit

681
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.900
from here on in in that role as, you know, communications officer

682
00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:34.319
or something.

683
00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:36.539
What's Wilson Cruz's character called?

684
00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:37.500
dialogue about that.

685
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.579
Culba.

686
00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:39.059
Culba.

687
00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:39.720
Culba.

688
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.700
He just checked the 2 of them out and why wouldn't he?

689
00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:45.359
That's the other thing about Discovery is everyone is very hot

690
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:46.980
which doesn't hurt at all.

691
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:50.039
Including Mary Wiseman, my gosh.

692
00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:54.299
So here's Mary, who is kind of.

693
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:59.339
I really like this thing where she says that Starfleet Academy

694
00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:03.960
being in Starfleet Academy is like yesterday and a 1000 years ago

695
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:07.259
and it literally is that, you know, which I just think is

696
00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:07.859
adorable.

697
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.880
But this is starting to sow the seeds of her leaving midseason to

698
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.940
go and work at Starfleet Academy.

699
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.339
She's like one of the MVPs on this show.

700
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:19.920
Oh, they weren't riding her out deliberately.

701
00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:22.559
I think she wanted to do it, do it less this season.

702
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:25.559
She is back for full season in season five.

703
00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:31.920
They do manage to get her back Um, and apparently she's in uh, to

704
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:37.140
some degree in Starfleet Academy, which is uh, being shot at the

705
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:37.680
moment, I think.

706
00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:40.740
You know, I love to keep doing this, but will you look at that man

707
00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:41.400
Vance?

708
00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:42.660
He's so hard.

709
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:43.259
Oh, isn't he?

710
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:45.359
Look at him.

711
00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:46.500
Can you see his wife and kid?

712
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.400
Like, it's like there was that thing he's mentioned before how his

713
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:54.180
family weren't here and Michael says to him, I'm really pleased to

714
00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:56.940
see that your family, ah, here, we get to see that.

715
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.799
So he's living here with his family.

716
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:02.640
You know, there's this thing where, uh, in series 3, beginning of

717
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:06.299
series 3, Federation headquarters was cloaked and shielded and

718
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:11.640
secret and, you know, um, under siege and now it's outward looking

719
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:15.480
and, you know, heading out to explore the galaxy and and make

720
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.200
alliances.

721
00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:16.920
It's great.

722
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:17.759
It's fabulous.

723
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:18.420
It's what you want.

724
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:22.500
The only way it could be Eddie hotter, do you know, because he's

725
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:26.279
got a lovely gray beard would be if we squeezed you into that

726
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:26.759
uniform.

727
00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:29.940
That's the only way I could display...

728
00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:37.319
But of course, as well, because it's a very subtle thing, but

729
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:41.220
because the makeup is much more subtle than in 90s trek.

730
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.460
But having her half Bajoran, half Cardassian as well.

731
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.519
I mean, that's just Star Trek in a nutshell, isn't it, right?

732
00:33:47.579 --> 00:33:49.980
Two warring races that have now come together.

733
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:51.119
Yeah.

734
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.059
She says that she has some ancestry on earth as well.

735
00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:58.559
Because Earth's not in the Federation at this point, it's

736
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.259
isolationist at the moment.

737
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:03.299
But yeah, yeah.

738
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.019
I can only hope that I age as well as Vance, you know.

739
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.239
Yeah, no, he's a good looking man, isn't he?

740
00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:11.099
Oh, don't you love it?

741
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:12.000
Oh, sorry, go on.

742
00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:18.179
No, no, I just love how he says, you know, you have to wear it.

743
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:20.280
You know, you just have to wear it.

744
00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:24.360
Oh, I love the, I love it when the, um, when the president comes

745
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:27.599
on the ship, Burden's a bit embarrassed and she sort of goes, so

746
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.900
yes, the president's here as well, and everyone's so awkward

747
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:31.380
aren't they?

748
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:33.659
Like no one knows, no one knows.

749
00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:36.659
We're normally a bit sassy, but no one's saying anything, you

750
00:34:36.659 --> 00:34:36.900
know?

751
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:40.320
No, but did you see, Michael arrives on the ship and she's got

752
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.139
kind of annoyed face happening.

753
00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:49.260
Look at Teddy's face, she's got a fixed grin like, oh, hello.

754
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:53.219
I like this too.

755
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:57.780
You might want to hold on to something when we do our, you know

756
00:34:57.780 --> 00:34:58.500
1st jump.

757
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.980
And then we cut to outside where the ship, you know, literally

758
00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:03.119
flips around.

759
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:05.159
And then drops.

760
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.440
No reason, not an effect.

761
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:11.340
But she's complete, we look back and she's fine.

762
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.380
In fact, she's smiling.

763
00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:15.239
So good.

764
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:16.980
She's so cool, the president.

765
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:18.179
Nothing phases her in this.

766
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:19.800
Look at this too.

767
00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:20.519
This is great.

768
00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:22.320
Why have we never seen this before?

769
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:23.820
They've never thought of doing this before.

770
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:29.639
So this is a spaceship. space station, but it's been struck by

771
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:30.179
something.

772
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.360
And so not only is it flying through space, but it has this

773
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:37.380
incredible rotational velocity as well, which they talk about in

774
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.239
comprehensible sort of normal term.

775
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.980
It looks great.

776
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:43.679
Yeah, straight past the camera.

777
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:44.820
Yeah, yeah.

778
00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:48.360
That's sort of on Star Trek project, and I'm not sure, really

779
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:48.719
isn't it?

780
00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:50.820
You talking about the science of the thing and me just going

781
00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:51.539
whee.

782
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:53.940
Oh, here we go.

783
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.019
So, here we are on the lush verdant world of...

784
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:58.559
Oh, thank you.

785
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:01.320
The most beautiful forest you've ever seen in your life.

786
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:06.119
You know, dappled in sunlight, with fabulous singing trees, and a

787
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:07.800
child running around, having a great time.

788
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:10.079
A terrible child actor.

789
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:11.880
This could not have flown off.

790
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:12.780
It's really bad.

791
00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:14.159
Fast enough for me, this planet.

792
00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:18.059
For a 2nd, I thought to myself, because I did know players were

793
00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:20.519
going to, I thought, oh, we're going to have loads of scenes this

794
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:21.719
year, sit on this planet.

795
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:25.139
No, by the end is a smoking crust.

796
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:26.039
Yeah.

797
00:36:26.099 --> 00:36:28.380
Although he's very hot.

798
00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:29.880
What is going on in this episode?

799
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:35.460
So these 2 are brothers and they're both incredibly handsome and

800
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:40.079
then they have this weird looking child who looks very old.

801
00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:41.760
They does look very awful.

802
00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:48.599
I think they get him. he has to deliver some chanting equation and

803
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.940
he actually does a reasonable job of it.

804
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:56.579
But he delivers one line of dialogue, which is really shockingly

805
00:36:56.579 --> 00:36:57.059
bad.

806
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:57.719
Bless him.

807
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.639
Oh, did you hear the line?

808
00:36:59.699 --> 00:37:03.420
We do this to explore how the universe is unknowable.

809
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:04.380
Oh, God.

810
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.760
But it's also no, but again, it's all about connection, isn't it?

811
00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:11.099
You know, like the tree connects them.

812
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:12.239
Time connects them.

813
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:17.159
Like it is all about the people equation being connected and it's

814
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.519
also just to show how fabulous this world is before we destroy it

815
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:21.000
horribly.

816
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:23.940
So we understand why he's so upset.

817
00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:26.880
Because we did go back there.

818
00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:31.860
Um, we went We went there last year at some and we did meet.

819
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:35.280
We did meet his brother and he hadn't been back.

820
00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:40.619
Remember, he was doing eco terrorism or something as a job and

821
00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:41.579
being a...

822
00:37:41.699 --> 00:37:42.360
What's he doing?

823
00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:44.579
He's putting his blood in with the sap of the wood.

824
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:46.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

825
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.800
Because it's the that joins them together.

826
00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:53.940
I'll be with you always until you're dead at the end of the end

827
00:37:54.059 --> 00:37:55.139
the end of the episode.

828
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:56.039
Yeah, that's right.

829
00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:58.260
So the kid's chanting as well.

830
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.239
I think that he does a reasonable job of that.

831
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:01.860
Yeah, look at him.

832
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.039
You know, this shows you the difference between Star Trek

833
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:06.780
Discovery and Battlestar Galactica, right?

834
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:10.199
Because on Galactica and the very 1st episode, they show a kid

835
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.800
just sort of swinging their legs before death hits them in the

836
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:15.960
face, whereas we don't ever see the kid again, do we?

837
00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:19.320
We don't see him on the planet dying as the planet blows up.

838
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.059
No, no, of course we don't.

839
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:25.679
But we do see flashbacks because next week is obviously all about

840
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:27.900
books reaction to this.

841
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.239
And I think next week episode is extremely strong.

842
00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:35.280
Like it does a really good job of portraying his grief, like just

843
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:40.260
on screen, but also portraying it through the space problem that

844
00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:40.559
we have.

845
00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:41.820
This is great.

846
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.159
This, the birds flying away from danger.

847
00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:44.940
Yeah.

848
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:49.079
And then, like you said, that very disturbing, very jarring image

849
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.000
of all the birds hitting the window.

850
00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:54.000
You just know something is very wrong.

851
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:55.079
Yeah.

852
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.639
Yeah, yeah.

853
00:38:56.760 --> 00:38:59.400
It's something that you've never seen on Star Trek before again.

854
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:03.360
Unfortunately, before we start blowing up planets, we've got to go

855
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.420
to this space station and deal with this intransigent base

856
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:10.619
commander and upside down gravity and all your usual Star Trek

857
00:39:10.619 --> 00:39:12.059
cliches. gravity is great.

858
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:13.260
I do it, of course.

859
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:16.619
As we've said many times in this episode, just because.

860
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:18.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

861
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:24.420
Because it's interesting. you know, visually and because it's

862
00:39:24.420 --> 00:39:26.280
another threat and because we can do it.

863
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:30.840
I will say, though, I will say, DS1 did do it 1st when the uptar

864
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.039
down Gem'dar ship.

865
00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:33.420
Oh, really?

866
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:33.719
Okay.

867
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:35.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. brilliant. brilliant.

868
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:39.780
It's not like they can't do it in the 90s.

869
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.519
They just choose not to more often than not.

870
00:39:41.579 --> 00:39:43.800
Well, they mostly can't afford to do it.

871
00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:48.059
And certainly they've just built a big upside down set and a whole

872
00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:50.039
heap of the episode. would you like this man?

873
00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:51.179
What's his name?

874
00:39:51.539 --> 00:39:54.119
Uh, I...

875
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:55.920
Base command, I'll call him. remember?

876
00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:59.460
His name is...

877
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:02.940
You know, I've been doing some really intricate scratch art lately

878
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:05.460
and the pictures all look a bit like his face.

879
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.780
Yeah.

880
00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:11.940
I like him like how the earth people on board the station have

881
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:16.860
said this is a shit show and he says that's that's earth for bad.

882
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:20.760
And then later he says all of the machinery is quiddled.

883
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:25.260
I know you say this just makes him sound like a normal person.

884
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:26.340
Yeah.

885
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:30.420
Yeah, but I mean, he's still Star Trek, but just the kind of

886
00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:34.440
dialogue that we get on Star Trek now is so much better than what

887
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.920
we had in the 90s because it's a little bit more relaxed and a

888
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:41.099
little bit more naturalistic, even though here it's a fairly

889
00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:43.440
standard, shouting at orders at each other's scene.

890
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:47.039
What we do have for the next 15 minutes is a very sort of standard

891
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:49.559
Star Trek going onto the station.

892
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:50.519
We've got a problem.

893
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:52.380
We'll send 2 of our people.

894
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.980
There's somebody getting in the way of all the solutions, which is

895
00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:56.639
this fella.

896
00:40:56.940 --> 00:41:01.679
They find the solution involving the president and we're going, and

897
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:03.179
it's all done very competently.

898
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:07.440
But it's not exactly riveting Star Trek, is it?

899
00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:08.579
No, no, no, no.

900
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:10.860
And it is, it's fairly sent, a lot, too.

901
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:14.639
It's Adira's 1st mission.

902
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:19.139
Why does Adira keep seeing?..

903
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:19.679
Yeah.

904
00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:26.699
Well, just remember that Gray was their previous host was the tile

905
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:28.619
symbian's previous host.

906
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:37.019
So, so Adira has the symbient that Gray had, and ever since then, a

907
00:41:37.019 --> 00:41:42.059
little bit like how Jansia can sometimes see her previous hosts in

908
00:41:42.059 --> 00:41:45.719
special things, because these 2 loved one another or, you know

909
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:46.320
like whatever.

910
00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:53.639
So they see him all the time, uh, and then later on, he gets a

911
00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:57.840
synth body and is actually in the show and everyone else can see

912
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.320
him as well.

913
00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:00.900
I still think that's my favourite of all the discoveries we've

914
00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:03.960
done so far, you know, that character on about them too.

915
00:42:04.019 --> 00:42:08.579
But also as well, I think the 2nd that Grey appears, that portion

916
00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:13.199
of the audience I was talking about earlier, then heckles her up

917
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:13.500
you know?

918
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:14.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

919
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:20.639
Fuck those people. yeah I think gray is gorgeous.

920
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

921
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:24.659
He's adorable.

922
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.579
And just sort of terribly wise.

923
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:28.320
I think the 2 of them are really great together.

924
00:42:28.380 --> 00:42:33.900
And like Adira is so funny, they're such a nerd.

925
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.179
It's just...

926
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.300
I don't know how to sound say this without sounding like, I don't

927
00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:39.599
mean it.

928
00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:41.880
I mean this in an entirely positive way, yeah.

929
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:45.420
But you go back to 90s trade and all the men and all the women

930
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:48.599
yeah, are standard looking men and women, yeah?

931
00:42:48.659 --> 00:42:51.539
There's nothing really sort of out of the norm from their, you

932
00:42:51.539 --> 00:42:54.719
know, square jaw American men and beautiful.

933
00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:58.980
Whereas the diversity, the visual diversity.

934
00:42:59.039 --> 00:42:59.519
I love it.

935
00:42:59.579 --> 00:43:02.519
Adira, Tilly, Giorgio.

936
00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:03.599
Yep.

937
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:04.500
Yeah.

938
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:05.820
No, I think it's wonderful.

939
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:09.300
I love this shot too, where they've matched rotation.

940
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:10.440
So not completely.

941
00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:12.780
So it still appears to, because that was the thing I was thinking

942
00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:13.079
of.

943
00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:15.539
You know, its frame of references moving as well.

944
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.860
So, you know, it just looks like it's spinning because Discovery's

945
00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:20.099
not.

946
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:21.719
And so then they match it.

947
00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:24.840
But see, all of this stuff, this whole plot is just being told

948
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:29.400
this way through just fading back and forwards, interior shots of

949
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.639
them working on the thing, exterior shots, a bit of dialogue

950
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:33.539
because it doesn't matter.

951
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:37.199
This part isn't particularly, you know, it's what they're there

952
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:37.559
for.

953
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:43.019
But what is interesting is what happens when it goes wrong.

954
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:47.219
And, of course, what we see at the end and what caused it, you

955
00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:48.179
know, what caused the problem.

956
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:51.420
But then, so if it's if it's this beautiful looking, and I don't

957
00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:54.900
disagree, with these regular characters, which are really great

958
00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:57.119
why is it more interesting?

959
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.900
I think this episode's properly interesting. no, no.

960
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.219
I mean, this plot, this part of it.

961
00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:03.119
Oh, yeah, yeah.

962
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:07.619
I think the plot gets properly interesting when Michael goes out

963
00:44:07.619 --> 00:44:11.460
there and there was one thing that absolutely shocked me.

964
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:12.360
I mean, look at this.

965
00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:17.400
So these are, these, this is frozen methane from an ort cloud

966
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.539
which is, you know, the big cloud of sort of frozen objects that

967
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:25.079
comets come from and stuff that's part of our solar system.

968
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:28.980
It's a thing that doesn't get mentioned very much in Star Trek, but

969
00:44:28.980 --> 00:44:31.320
the sort of thing that should be mentioned, given that we're in

970
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:33.000
space and we're in star systems.

971
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:36.119
And so we're just having all of these catastrophic sort of chunks

972
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:39.300
of methane hurling themselves at the ship and the station.

973
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.420
That's, you know, that looks visually interesting.

974
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:43.800
It gives us sorts of explosions.

975
00:44:43.860 --> 00:44:44.820
There are rocks.

976
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.159
I hope you, I hope you...

977
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:51.900
I'm just watching the 30 seconds belching out of the walls for no

978
00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:52.860
reason whatsoever.

979
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.420
No, no.

980
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.460
Excuse me, they haven't just got rocks.

981
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:59.280
We've gone up in the world in discovery from 90s.

982
00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:00.300
There's rocks on the floor.

983
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.159
Slow motion rocks.

984
00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:05.340
They fly up in slow motion.

985
00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:10.019
Look, I mean, I'm sorry, that flame belching out of the wall is so

986
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:10.260
funny.

987
00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:13.139
It's awesome.

988
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.599
Someone's just constantly pressing the button.

989
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:18.059
Yeah, no, it looks great.

990
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:19.679
I'm not saying it doesn't look great.

991
00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:23.820
I'm just like, all of Discovery looks great, which means the story

992
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:24.659
has to be good.

993
00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:26.219
Yeah, yeah.

994
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:30.659
But I think I think that you can afford to do for this, a fairly

995
00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:33.000
standard Star Trek thing, the sort of thing that Star Trek does

996
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:37.260
because it is, after all, Star Trek, but just do it well and do it

997
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:40.260
in a discovery way, I think, is absolutely worth doing because

998
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:42.360
it's not the only game in town this episode.

999
00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:45.900
Do you know, there is a comparison actually.

1000
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:47.699
We haven't covered it yet.

1001
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:51.000
In DS9 series 6, episode one, a time to stand.

1002
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:54.179
That's establishing a whole new setup as well.

1003
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:57.119
And in the 2nd half of the episode.

1004
00:45:57.179 --> 00:45:59.579
They go to the catch to white facility and it's a sort of 15

1005
00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:03.059
minute plot that doesn't really impact too much beyond them

1006
00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:04.860
getting the Jem'adar ship for the next one.

1007
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.260
And it is the same sort of thing.

1008
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.420
But I really remember that.

1009
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.219
I don't know if I'll remember this plot.

1010
00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:15.900
Well, you also have to remember that that Deep Space 9 episode is

1011
00:46:15.900 --> 00:46:18.960
something that you've been living with, you know, 30 years.

1012
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:23.400
I know, Nathan, but I'll never forget that go on episode of

1013
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:25.260
Strange New Worlds, and I've only seen that choice.

1014
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:26.400
Yeah.

1015
00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:33.000
So this, I think, is really interesting because she shouldn't be

1016
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:33.539
saying this.

1017
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:35.880
The president shouldn't really be saying this.

1018
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.800
But he does.

1019
00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:39.539
Very Star Trek, though.

1020
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:40.440
I've heard this quite a bit.

1021
00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:43.320
Should the person in charge really be leaving at this point?

1022
00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:45.000
And she looks concerned.

1023
00:46:45.059 --> 00:46:46.199
Like she's not being a dick.

1024
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:50.099
And she's never a dick. which she says, she says, a question

1025
00:46:50.099 --> 00:46:53.579
doesn't imply questioning, Karen. love that line.

1026
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:59.099
And Michael just goes, you know, you can hear her saying to

1027
00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:03.480
herself, yes, it fucking does, obviously it does, but she doesn't

1028
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:03.960
say anything.

1029
00:47:04.019 --> 00:47:04.800
She just walks off.

1030
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:05.880
Do you know what I mean?

1031
00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:07.199
You're clearly questioning me.

1032
00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:08.099
I'm walking off.

1033
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:14.699
And and she's right because the way that this crew operates 1st

1034
00:47:14.699 --> 00:47:19.199
under Saru and under her is that they're really collaborative.

1035
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:20.639
She's not the king.

1036
00:47:20.699 --> 00:47:23.760
She's not like Kirk or Picard.

1037
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:28.559
They work together in such a collaborative way in discovery, and

1038
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.860
less so in Stranger World, but very, very obviously here, and

1039
00:47:31.860 --> 00:47:35.400
partly because we have a year where Saru is in charge, and that's

1040
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:37.860
his kind of way of being a manager.

1041
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:42.780
And and because they're used to being in touch all the time, you

1042
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.300
know, like they're always in touch with one another.

1043
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.960
And so even if she's off the ship, she's still able to give orders

1044
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:50.280
and stuff like that just as much.

1045
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:53.099
And I think it calls back to our 1st episode, doesn't it?

1046
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:57.840
The 1st episode of discovery where she goes out in a B or whatever

1047
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:01.260
it is in an EVA suit to investigate the Kleon monument.

1048
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:06.480
I think it really is the DS9 equivalent in Kurtzman track.

1049
00:48:06.539 --> 00:48:09.480
Because I think it's more flat team structure in DSNI as well.

1050
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:11.579
You get these big problems and they all chip in.

1051
00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:13.619
A Brian, Kira, Dax, whoever.

1052
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:15.719
Whoever's got a solution at that moment.

1053
00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:18.780
And Cisco was just steps back unless he absolutely has to step

1054
00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:19.260
in.

1055
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:19.679
Yeah.

1056
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:20.760
Yeah.

1057
00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:24.900
And it's also the outlier of its iteration of Star Trek as well.

1058
00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:29.340
And it reinvents itself every season and, you know, doesn't quite

1059
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:32.159
know what it's doing and makes it up as it goes along.

1060
00:48:32.219 --> 00:48:35.280
And it's sort of character based and this sort of thing too.

1061
00:48:35.340 --> 00:48:42.840
So this scene here, I think, merely exists to finalise last year

1062
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:44.880
like the finale for last year.

1063
00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:51.960
And we established that, that, um, Saru has been away for 7 months

1064
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:52.739
or something.

1065
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:56.880
You know, we had book and Michael missing Saru, but we've never

1066
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.219
seen Saru on the ship with Michael as the captain.

1067
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:03.719
Um, and, you know, that's just sort of drawing a line under the

1068
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:07.440
Sokal plot so that he can go back. fair enough.

1069
00:49:07.500 --> 00:49:10.079
I just wouldn't have done this at this point in the episode

1070
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:12.360
because the pace just grinds to a hole.

1071
00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:14.699
We're in the middle of all this action.

1072
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:18.000
And then we have this long character saying, this is very nice

1073
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:18.480
straight, this.

1074
00:49:18.539 --> 00:49:20.219
It's not too long.

1075
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:21.179
It's a minute or two.

1076
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:22.920
It's not too long, but yes, I agree.

1077
00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:26.099
I suppose it gives burn enough time to get from A to B. Right.

1078
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:26.940
She's there now, good.

1079
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:28.500
Yeah, now she's here.

1080
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.119
Look at that shit.

1081
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:31.920
I know it's great, isn't it?

1082
00:49:31.980 --> 00:49:33.599
Like an enormous bubble.

1083
00:49:33.659 --> 00:49:37.679
Yeah, so she calls it a B, which I think is adorable.

1084
00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:41.280
So clearly it's a bubble so we can see her.

1085
00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:45.119
No, it's just a bubble because it looks cool.

1086
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:48.480
And because it looks cool, but we want to see her and we want to

1087
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.159
see the, you know, what's going on outside.

1088
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:54.239
So as well, lit up console, a hologram.

1089
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:57.960
And it just, it's bits, you know, that open and shift around and

1090
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:58.199
stuff.

1091
00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:00.420
I don't think there's any shocking moment.

1092
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:04.199
I don't think any of the other Kurtzman tracks. put as much money

1093
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:05.519
on the screen as Discovery.

1094
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:11.940
It does look great, but that moment absolutely shocked me when the

1095
00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:14.099
whole top of the thing gets sheared off.

1096
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:18.300
And then we have no sound at all.

1097
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:24.059
And like I just, you know, I was really, really quite shocked. like

1098
00:50:24.059 --> 00:50:27.659
I'd forgotten that that happened. and it does, it's well directed

1099
00:50:27.659 --> 00:50:28.679
like it comes out of nowhere.

1100
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:32.280
Everyone's in slow motion now looking shock.

1101
00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:33.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1102
00:50:33.059 --> 00:50:37.199
Honest to God, particularly those braids flying in slow motion.

1103
00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:38.519
No, we're sharp.

1104
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:41.940
We're back out of slow motion now and she's back and she's in a

1105
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:45.599
suit, which is made of programmable matter, and now she's going to

1106
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:50.639
fly over to the ship and pull manually pull the debris of the

1107
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:51.480
escape ship.

1108
00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:54.840
It's the one thing I could never criticise about. cannot fault the

1109
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.039
execution of this show.

1110
00:50:56.099 --> 00:50:58.199
Yeah, it looks so...

1111
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.019
I can't be interesting occasionally, but I just can't.

1112
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:03.719
I cannot fault the how much they try and impress you with the

1113
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:04.199
visuals.

1114
00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:04.980
Yeah.

1115
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:06.719
Because they always do.

1116
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:07.380
They always do.

1117
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:10.079
Because that's what sold me on it originally.

1118
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:13.800
That very 1st episode. more different.

1119
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:17.039
Yeah, they have for mourning.

1120
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:20.340
They're just about every every season.

1121
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:21.900
Oh, wonderful.

1122
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:27.119
Nice to see the races that survive through a 1000 years in the

1123
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:27.539
future.

1124
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:28.019
Yeah.

1125
00:51:28.019 --> 00:51:28.559
Yeah.

1126
00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:32.340
So here she is pulling debris off.

1127
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:37.320
It's just absurdly good looking.

1128
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:40.619
She's there on top of the bloody thing with a cord.

1129
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:41.099
Yeah.

1130
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:43.440
So what about this bit, though?

1131
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:44.400
We mentioned it before.

1132
00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:47.699
So Relick is now speaking to Nalas, who's losing his shit?

1133
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:54.539
And she's talking about his home planet and how much she likes, she

1134
00:51:54.539 --> 00:51:57.300
talks about the fisher of something or other and some feature

1135
00:51:57.300 --> 00:52:05.400
that's beautiful and she's calming him down and she succeeds by

1136
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:08.699
saying that she's been on the planet, she knows what it's like.

1137
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:09.900
It's very beautiful.

1138
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:13.260
We're going to get you home and it does calm him down.

1139
00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:14.460
He lowers his weapon.

1140
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:21.780
Um, and then we get the scene later where um, Michael says to her

1141
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:26.940
Is that true or did you just look up, look it up on Wikipedia a

1142
00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:27.539
bit earlier?

1143
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:31.079
And um, And she says, does it matter?

1144
00:52:32.340 --> 00:52:37.860
And I think that's super interesting when it comes to whose side

1145
00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:42.960
we're on in the argument between Relak and Michael.

1146
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:46.199
I don't know.

1147
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:47.699
Do you know what I mean?

1148
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:48.420
Like, I don't know.

1149
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:52.260
Or nodding away at a lot of relaxers, but then I'm not the biggest

1150
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:53.820
fan of Michael Burnham, and you know that.

1151
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.239
But, but I mean, the thing is that Michael relies on the fact that

1152
00:52:57.239 --> 00:53:01.679
she is the lead in the show and that the, that discovery is not

1153
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.320
going to be destroyed because it's the main sheep in the show.

1154
00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:05.579
Do you know what I mean?

1155
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.440
Like, in a way, she's right.

1156
00:53:07.500 --> 00:53:09.119
A lot to put your lifetime, you know?

1157
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:10.199
That's right.

1158
00:53:10.260 --> 00:53:10.980
That's right.

1159
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:12.239
In a way, she's right.

1160
00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:17.579
But, you know, what Relick says is true in universe, isn't it?

1161
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:22.380
You know, you, uh, you could have destroyed us all, including me

1162
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:26.219
um, Is that why we were so shocked at a change of face of evil

1163
00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:27.300
whether the fire blew up?

1164
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.000
This is not supposed to happen.

1165
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:33.599
I'll wait 2 episodes later. there's a defiant Marto.

1166
00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:35.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1167
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.440
But did they ever blow discovery?

1168
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:39.179
Even in an alternative universe or anything.

1169
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:41.639
I can't remember.

1170
00:53:41.699 --> 00:53:42.000
Probably.

1171
00:53:42.059 --> 00:53:43.619
They usually do at one point in this show.

1172
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:44.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1173
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:47.699
Do you know, a 2nd ago there, I will not stop going running about

1174
00:53:47.699 --> 00:53:48.239
the visuals.

1175
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:48.840
I'm so sorry.

1176
00:53:48.900 --> 00:53:53.519
They were cut in between Michael on the outside of the station, to

1177
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:58.500
them upside down in the station, to them the right way up in the

1178
00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:00.000
state. and I was like, bloody hell.

1179
00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:01.860
It's just one great visual after another.

1180
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.239
That's really good, isn't it?

1181
00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:09.179
It's really good So, so, it meanwhile, um, pork is in the

1182
00:54:09.179 --> 00:54:10.500
atmosphere above quasion.

1183
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:12.000
Look at his console.

1184
00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:14.519
Sort of made out crystals. programmable matter.

1185
00:54:14.579 --> 00:54:15.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1186
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:16.860
It looks beautiful, doesn't it?

1187
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:19.800
That's a great, that's a, that ship gets destroyed, but it's a

1188
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:21.780
very, very sexy sad.

1189
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.639
What are those strange things?

1190
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.820
sort of things going up and down in the background there.

1191
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:27.960
Yeah, yeah.

1192
00:54:28.019 --> 00:54:29.760
I rely on you for the technology.

1193
00:54:29.820 --> 00:54:30.960
I don't know what that is.

1194
00:54:31.019 --> 00:54:35.460
But just dead birds hitting the windscreen is something that you

1195
00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:36.599
would never have thought of.

1196
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:38.880
If there was ever a portent of doom.

1197
00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:40.739
This, look, look.

1198
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:44.340
He's watching the moon as the moon gets destroyed in front of him

1199
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:48.300
like the shockwave hits Guajon's moon, and then hits him and

1200
00:54:48.300 --> 00:54:51.239
knocks him out, so he never sees the planet being destroyed.

1201
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:53.760
A lot of rocks on the ground.

1202
00:54:53.820 --> 00:54:54.539
So many rocks.

1203
00:54:54.539 --> 00:54:56.340
Honestly.

1204
00:54:56.340 --> 00:54:57.960
They fought at night straight.

1205
00:54:58.019 --> 00:54:58.679
We don't have enough.

1206
00:54:58.739 --> 00:54:59.699
We'll pack a few more in.

1207
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:01.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1208
00:55:01.260 --> 00:55:03.780
Upside down again. flaws in discovery too.

1209
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:09.000
I was just, but at this point, right, I was just waiting for this

1210
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:12.000
base, please just get out of the way now. come on, let's just all

1211
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:12.300
this out.

1212
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:13.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1213
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.800
Well, the other thing too, which I think is really good, is that

1214
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:18.239
they make his death matter.

1215
00:55:18.300 --> 00:55:21.900
You know, like his death matters and...

1216
00:55:21.900 --> 00:55:25.079
And I kind of like that.

1217
00:55:25.139 --> 00:55:26.699
You know, we can.

1218
00:55:26.699 --> 00:55:29.219
Of course, I get better at doing these flames because it's

1219
00:55:29.219 --> 00:55:30.539
billowing out of the ceiling now.

1220
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:34.679
It's clearly, it's clearly like a pyrotechnic effect.

1221
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:35.579
No, of course it is.

1222
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:41.639
But it just looks like it's belching every time. don't know what's

1223
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:42.119
on fire.

1224
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.079
But well, the trouble is, the flame always comes from the same

1225
00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:47.219
source in every set.

1226
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:51.900
Do you notice, do you notice, though, that all the sparks and

1227
00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:55.380
stuff are flying upside down as well?

1228
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:56.400
That is really great, yeah.

1229
00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:58.440
Slow motion sparks.

1230
00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:00.539
I mean, you just can't get back. so good.

1231
00:56:00.659 --> 00:56:04.260
Oh, and these, the panels, like the way the panels are so much

1232
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:08.760
better on in, in this version of track, including the ones that

1233
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:10.139
are on. look at this.

1234
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:11.579
This is so good.

1235
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:12.659
Watch, watch, watch.

1236
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:13.619
Wow.

1237
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:16.199
Do you know what's great about it as I thought, oh, they're just

1238
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.360
going to go upside down before it hits them.

1239
00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:19.980
No, it hits them.

1240
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:24.300
And they've taken a lot of damage and then all of a sudden it's

1241
00:56:24.300 --> 00:56:27.539
all emergency personnel to dot, dot, dot. good, isn't it?

1242
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.840
And that, like that ruin, like in the shuttle bay, there's this

1243
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:34.679
sort of just massive destroyed ruin and you've got, you know, Tilly

1244
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:36.179
and Adira appearing.

1245
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:42.239
Oh, I did love the bit where Paul says how's a deer.

1246
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:43.320
Oh, and everyone else.

1247
00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:44.760
Do you know what I mean?

1248
00:56:44.820 --> 00:56:51.239
Because a deer is his child, like essentially, um, oh, I don't

1249
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:55.079
like this scanner, you know, that says patient deceased in massive

1250
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:55.619
letters.

1251
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:59.039
Just in case you're not sure.

1252
00:56:59.099 --> 00:57:02.400
No, he was a bit irrescame, though, wasn't he?

1253
00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:06.179
Having, it's better than having him turn to us and then shaking

1254
00:57:06.179 --> 00:57:06.539
his head.

1255
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:11.219
We always love that with McCoy.

1256
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:12.179
He's dead Jim.

1257
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah No, we just have patient deceased.

1258
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:17.519
Oh, dear.

1259
00:57:17.579 --> 00:57:19.079
Oh, look at the dot look, assessing it.

1260
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:21.360
I've got a clear all this fucking mess up.

1261
00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:23.099
Jesus Christ.

1262
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:24.119
That's all it's doing.

1263
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:25.739
It's looking around, it's putting out some fires.

1264
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:27.900
You better be prepared to pay me some overtime.

1265
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.420
Okay, so that plot is over with now.

1266
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:36.239
We've murdered off, you know, the guy that was in the way.

1267
00:57:36.300 --> 00:57:36.840
Good.

1268
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:41.039
Yeah, but I think does she say that 4 people have died?

1269
00:57:41.099 --> 00:57:43.019
Like a number of people die?

1270
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:47.579
on the, like in a 3 dead 4 wounded?

1271
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:51.659
I really like this scene.

1272
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:55.500
Because suddenly all the fireworks were over and it's about people

1273
00:57:55.500 --> 00:57:56.039
you know?

1274
00:57:56.099 --> 00:57:57.420
Yeah.

1275
00:57:57.420 --> 00:57:59.519
And this is my kind of Star Trek.

1276
00:57:59.579 --> 00:58:04.139
And the Kobayashu Maru thing is really interesting because Relick

1277
00:58:04.139 --> 00:58:07.920
doesn't know about it and Michael does.

1278
00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:13.019
And I like the fact that they interpret it differently as well, the

1279
00:58:13.019 --> 00:58:13.500
2 of them.

1280
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:14.039
Yeah.

1281
00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:15.840
There's no win scenario.

1282
00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:19.380
And and that's the name of the episode as well.

1283
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:24.179
You know, the episode's focus is on her command decisions.

1284
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:28.139
So is there no win scenario that they couldn't solve this problem

1285
00:58:28.139 --> 00:58:29.460
without these people being killed?

1286
00:58:30.179 --> 00:58:37.559
The no-win scenario, like the idea is that it's designed to teach

1287
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:43.679
you to cope with failure and loss because there's no way out of

1288
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:43.980
it.

1289
00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:52.199
And remember that Jim Kirk goes back to the simulation, hacks it

1290
00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:55.619
so that he doesn't have to so that he doesn't have to move.

1291
00:58:55.619 --> 00:59:00.539
And that's seen as a flaw in his character because he's never had

1292
00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:02.639
to face that.

1293
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:07.199
But I do like this where she says, you know, logic says that I

1294
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.800
should try and get everybody home and that is the only answer.

1295
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:12.780
And we know this is not true.

1296
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:15.900
That's not always, you're always going to lose people.

1297
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:18.179
I think what she's saying is she will always try.

1298
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:19.440
Yeah.

1299
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:20.099
Yeah.

1300
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:24.360
I also really like, too, that Relick is not oppositional, and

1301
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:25.679
she's an older woman.

1302
00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:27.059
Do you know what I mean?

1303
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:29.460
Who has sympathy for Mike?

1304
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:30.239
Well, you said it earlier, actually.

1305
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:32.400
You know, she's not a dick, and these characters usually are.

1306
00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:33.840
Yeah, yeah.

1307
00:59:33.900 --> 00:59:37.079
And I think it's really good that they get to have proper

1308
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:38.940
political disagreement.

1309
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:40.559
Does this thread through the whole year?

1310
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:45.960
Like their relationship is super important, but obviously they're

1311
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.559
absolutely on the same side when it comes to how do we deal with a

1312
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:51.420
10 C as we saw.

1313
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.800
You know, we saw the big conference that they have, you know, at

1314
00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:57.539
Federation headquarters about it.

1315
00:59:59.340 --> 01:00:03.719
Yeah, and in fact, Michael's a bit defensive enough this. isn't

1316
01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:03.840
she?

1317
01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:06.599
She says you're not ready for this new technology.

1318
01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:07.739
Oh, don't get me wrong.

1319
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.320
You're eminently qualified, but you're not ready.

1320
01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:12.119
There is a difference there.

1321
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:15.239
Oh, that's it.

1322
01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:18.719
She goes, you're not ready to accept all the potential outcomes of

1323
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:19.500
a scenario.

1324
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.500
You're so focussed on I will get everybody home safe.

1325
01:00:22.619 --> 01:00:23.579
Home, yeah.

1326
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:25.860
It's great dialogue this.

1327
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:27.480
It is really good too.

1328
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:31.079
And, and like we know, like she was never going to take a thing on

1329
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:34.559
board Voyager, because this ship is, you know, from the 23rd

1330
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.800
century, and these people all chose to come here with her.

1331
01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:43.800
Like it is her home in a way that is true of this show, but not

1332
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:45.059
other shows necessarily.

1333
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:50.519
Um, And look at the respect that she...

1334
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:52.619
Yeah, she said, you know, you just...

1335
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:53.639
You saved us all.

1336
01:00:53.699 --> 01:00:56.039
I'm not saying you're bad at your job.

1337
01:00:56.099 --> 01:01:00.840
You're extremely competent And she's a bit sad to have to

1338
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:02.219
criticise her like this.

1339
01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:05.699
It played really well too.

1340
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:09.119
And look, Michael is really kind of struggling to hold it

1341
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:09.599
together.

1342
01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:11.099
It's good.

1343
01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:13.260
It's the sort of scene if it was on Voyager.

1344
01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:16.860
It would be very confrontational in a very unrealistic way, isn't

1345
01:01:16.860 --> 01:01:17.039
it?

1346
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:21.059
The sort of the subtleties of acting in the last 20 years means

1347
01:01:21.059 --> 01:01:23.280
this place really well.

1348
01:01:23.340 --> 01:01:26.460
And that's the other thing that I like about this show as well is

1349
01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:31.079
just, you know, like we don't have to manufacture conflict here.

1350
01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:35.760
These people can be both well-intentioned people who want what's

1351
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:38.940
good for each other and for the federation. and they can disagree

1352
01:01:38.940 --> 01:01:39.780
about something.

1353
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:43.860
And Michael is in a position where she just has to wear a bit of

1354
01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:47.760
criticism because she's the president.

1355
01:01:47.820 --> 01:01:52.440
You know, they brought the one person on the ship, she has to

1356
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:56.159
listen to, unfortunately, in advance as well. and Vance was

1357
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:57.900
critical of her last year a bit.

1358
01:01:58.019 --> 01:02:01.199
Oh boy, this is the end now.

1359
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:03.599
So he's still not sure, is he?

1360
01:02:03.659 --> 01:02:04.440
He doesn't know.

1361
01:02:04.500 --> 01:02:07.019
No, because he woke up and it was gone.

1362
01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:10.440
He saw the moon being destroyed and the shockwave heading towards

1363
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:10.679
him.

1364
01:02:11.460 --> 01:02:15.900
And there's so much about this beyond the stunning visual of that

1365
01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:20.760
planet that's cracked with all the sort of love of like, was, how

1366
01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:25.500
do you ask an actor to respond to your entire planet has been

1367
01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:26.039
blown up?

1368
01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:29.820
And then how do you ask the other actors to respond to that?

1369
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.159
And it's all done in total silence.

1370
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:35.579
A line of dialogue.

1371
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.619
And I had chills watching this.

1372
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:41.039
Just from their reactions to them.

1373
01:02:41.099 --> 01:02:43.800
The incredible sympathy.

1374
01:02:44.219 --> 01:02:46.139
Do you know what I mean?

1375
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:47.460
Like, just...

1376
01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:50.340
It's a...

1377
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:51.599
She's so shocked.

1378
01:02:51.659 --> 01:02:55.500
And then she looks at him and she's like, oh, my God. all looking

1379
01:02:55.500 --> 01:02:57.960
at him in this final shot as well.

1380
01:02:58.019 --> 01:02:59.699
You know, they're all looking at him.

1381
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:00.719
It's beautiful.

1382
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:03.780
God, that's really good.

1383
01:03:03.900 --> 01:03:06.000
It's listen, the best.

1384
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:07.019
Oh, absolutely.

1385
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:10.619
So amazing. planets are being blown up.

1386
01:03:10.739 --> 01:03:11.340
Hurrah.

1387
01:03:11.460 --> 01:03:12.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1388
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:14.280
Oh, yeah.

1389
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:15.059
You're like, well.

1390
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:17.039
That was the thing, wasn't it?

1391
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:20.940
Serious to episode one. how did it do Yeah, no.

1392
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:25.800
Well, I mean, in a way, like Deep Space 9, every episode one is

1393
01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:30.840
kind of a reboot because we don't...

1394
01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:32.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1395
01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:33.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1396
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:37.019
Because the series 4, things all been resolved and we have a new

1397
01:03:37.019 --> 01:03:37.860
plot to start.

1398
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:41.760
And because, as I said, before, the narrative unit of Discovery

1399
01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:45.900
and Picard is the season primarily and then the episode.

1400
01:03:46.019 --> 01:03:51.840
And, you know, as I said before on on Titled Star Trek project, I

1401
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:55.920
think that this season gets the serialisation absolutely right

1402
01:03:55.980 --> 01:04:00.780
that each episode has a character and something an arc, something

1403
01:04:00.780 --> 01:04:01.860
starts and ends.

1404
01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:06.239
I don't think it has any of those episodes like vaulting ambition

1405
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:07.980
in series one.

1406
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:10.980
Remember the Mirror Universe episode that we did where just

1407
01:04:10.980 --> 01:04:15.420
everyone's plot gets itched along or changing face of evil.

1408
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:20.639
That weird episode that went back to Talos, whatever it was in

1409
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:21.300
series two.

1410
01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:22.019
You know?

1411
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:26.940
It's just plot admin happening and inching the threads along.

1412
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:30.360
This one does a really good job of it, and it starts here, and I

1413
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:33.659
thought that that was a good solid episode introducing the problem

1414
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:37.739
and setting everything up for what's going to go on this season

1415
01:04:37.739 --> 01:04:43.139
right from that very, very 1st incredibly accomplished scene, which

1416
01:04:43.139 --> 01:04:48.719
just, like, does a fun action adventure Star Trek episode in about

1417
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:53.340
5 minutes where the central conflict, the central idea is the

1418
01:04:53.340 --> 01:04:56.820
central idea of the entire season, but we just don't know that

1419
01:04:56.820 --> 01:04:57.119
yet.

1420
01:04:57.179 --> 01:04:58.199
So well done.

1421
01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:06.599
If I'm not on board with the sentiment and the editing at times, I

1422
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:09.599
do think this is very confident.

1423
01:05:09.659 --> 01:05:13.320
Like they're really confident in what they're doing now. especially

1424
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:15.960
visually, but with the characters as well.

1425
01:05:16.019 --> 01:05:21.420
So, whereas I'm not as thrilled by this episode as you are, because

1426
01:05:21.420 --> 01:05:26.519
I do think that plot 2 thirds into the episode was pretty dull.

1427
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:29.460
I feel like they know what they're doing.

1428
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:33.059
And just because this isn't Star Trek, for me, that doesn't mean

1429
01:05:33.059 --> 01:05:34.980
it isn't really good Star Trek.

1430
01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:37.260
Yeah, I think that's fair.

1431
01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:38.940
I think that's absolutely fair.

1432
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:50.940
Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to

1433
01:05:50.940 --> 01:05:52.739
find out what we're going to be doing next.

1434
01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:55.260
I think this was my choice.

1435
01:05:55.320 --> 01:06:00.000
And so it's your go on the randomiser, Joe. What are you picking?

1436
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:04.920
Well, we've had far too much visual dynamism, realistic dialogue

1437
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:07.139
and subtle acting for my tastes.

1438
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:10.739
And after...

1439
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.800
Could be anything from the 90s, let's be honest.

1440
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:18.480
Yeah, after 2 weeks of me going, oh, well, this ain't my Star

1441
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:18.900
Trek.

1442
01:06:19.139 --> 01:06:23.760
I would like to take us swing us back round to very much my Star

1443
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:25.980
Trek and you know what that is.

1444
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:27.000
Be Space 9.

1445
01:06:27.059 --> 01:06:28.320
I absolutely love it.

1446
01:06:28.380 --> 01:06:32.519
And I think I think this is the longest we haven't done DS9 for

1447
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:34.260
because we've done a Voyager, we've done an enterprise.

1448
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:37.019
We done a TNG, we've done a lower decks, and we've done a

1449
01:06:37.019 --> 01:06:39.420
discovery since the last time we did DS9.

1450
01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:40.320
So I think that's fair.

1451
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:41.880
Okay, good.

1452
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:43.619
Let's go.

1453
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:48.960
Season finale.

1454
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:56.099
Season three, episode 26, the adversary.

1455
01:06:57.539 --> 01:07:00.480
It's a I really like that episode.

1456
01:07:00.539 --> 01:07:04.440
It ends on a suggestion of conflict to come rather than a

1457
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:04.980
cliffhanger.

1458
01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:05.699
Do you remember?

1459
01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:09.659
Because it's series 3, did you say, the final episode of series

1460
01:07:09.659 --> 01:07:09.960
3.

1461
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.199
So we go into Way of the Warrior next time.

1462
01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:15.900
So we would just watch that one.

1463
01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:17.159
That could be interesting.

1464
01:07:17.219 --> 01:07:19.019
That's what I said, Odo, go in.

1465
01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:20.940
You're too late.

1466
01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:22.619
We're everywhere.

1467
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:28.079
Um, I would love to do that, but I've already pressed the button

1468
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:28.500
again.

1469
01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:29.460
Okay, fair enough.

1470
01:07:29.460 --> 01:07:31.260
It's let he who is with, no, it's not.

1471
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:31.739
It's not.

1472
01:07:32.099 --> 01:07:35.099
Season five, episode.

1473
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:36.539
This is another good episode.

1474
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:39.599
Season five, episode 10, Rapture.

1475
01:07:40.019 --> 01:07:45.000
Locusts, heading towards Bajor unless it stands alone.

1476
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:50.460
It's another episode of Avery Brooks going crazy.

1477
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:51.780
Oh, really?

1478
01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:52.380
Okay.

1479
01:07:52.440 --> 01:07:53.099
Okay.

1480
01:07:53.159 --> 01:07:55.019
And is he going crazy?

1481
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:59.039
He's getting visions of the ancient city of Bahala.

1482
01:07:59.460 --> 01:08:03.599
And the province are basically pouring the entire timeline of the

1483
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:04.619
universe in his head.

1484
01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:07.019
He's seen the distant past and the far future.

1485
01:08:07.260 --> 01:08:08.639
Right.

1486
01:08:08.699 --> 01:08:10.739
Is there another emissary?

1487
01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:11.219
Is that the one?

1488
01:08:11.340 --> 01:08:13.619
No, that's a session. you're thinking of there.

1489
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:14.579
Okay.

1490
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:17.939
Oh, Dell, I do love Rapture, but maybe it's too good.

1491
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:18.840
I'm going to press it again.

1492
01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:19.680
Okay.

1493
01:08:19.739 --> 01:08:21.539
Oh, this is the one.

1494
01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:23.159
This is...

1495
01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:27.420
I was saying this, and you'll say, yes, we're doing it.

1496
01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:30.479
Oh, I'd love to do move on home.

1497
01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:32.760
Count to four.

1498
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:37.260
No, your round of Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season six.

1499
01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.359
Episode 20.

1500
01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:41.760
His way.

1501
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:44.880
Oh, yeah, yeah, let's do that.

1502
01:08:44.939 --> 01:08:46.020
Yeah, absolutely.

1503
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:51.119
I mean, this is precisely the sort of trek that those people I was

1504
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:53.819
talking about earlier. really hate.

1505
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:55.680
We're doing it.

1506
01:08:55.739 --> 01:08:59.100
I'd come over there and take the phone out of your hand if you

1507
01:08:59.100 --> 01:09:00.239
tried to press the button again.

1508
01:09:01.260 --> 01:09:04.380
I mean, it's Renee, of course.

1509
01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:08.939
Jimmy, we've just lost Jimmy Darren, so it's a good time to do an

1510
01:09:08.939 --> 01:09:12.359
episode that's entirely focussed on him and it does have

1511
01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:16.140
potentially the rubberiest kiss ever in Star Trek.

1512
01:09:17.220 --> 01:09:18.899
That's right.

1513
01:09:19.020 --> 01:09:21.720
That's right And a musical number.

1514
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:22.979
Several musical numbers.

1515
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:25.020
It's exactly what you were talking about earlier.

1516
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:30.840
Because season 6 is sort of like Discovery 4 in that pretty much

1517
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:36.479
every single episode, whether it's a big piece or a tiny piece

1518
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:38.699
adds to the jigsaw of the season.

1519
01:09:38.760 --> 01:09:40.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1520
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:42.300
But his way doesn't do that at all.

1521
01:09:42.359 --> 01:09:45.539
It's just, let's take a trip to Vegas.

1522
01:09:45.659 --> 01:09:47.220
That's awesome.

1523
01:09:47.279 --> 01:10:02.819
Absolutely. let's do that You've been listening to untitled Star

1524
01:10:02.819 --> 01:10:05.340
Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1525
01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:08.640
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1526
01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:11.579
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1527
01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:15.479
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1528
01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:17.159
composed by Cameron Lam.

1529
01:10:17.220 --> 01:10:21.600
This episode was recorded on the 1st of October 2024 and released

1530
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:22.859
on the 11th of October.

1531
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:27.300
You'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, his way.

1532
01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:46.619
Oh, yeah, that was a good choice.

1533
01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:47.520
That was a good choice.

1534
01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:50.640
I suppose we get to listen to a lot of pets.

1535
01:10:50.699 --> 01:10:52.680
Oh, no, that's the one where she sings fever, isn't it?

1536
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:53.760
I know, I know.

1537
01:10:53.819 --> 01:10:54.899
It's one of my favourite things.

1538
01:10:56.039 --> 01:11:00.960
You've seen Rita Marino singing Fever on the Muppet Show.

1539
01:11:01.020 --> 01:11:01.739
You sent it to me.

1540
01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:02.100
Yes.

1541
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:02.699
Good.

1542
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:03.420
Yeah, yeah.

1543
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:10.380
She was so great in that sitcom one step at a time. was so good in

1544
01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:10.619
that.

1545
01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:12.420
So I watched it.

1546
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:14.159
I tried to watch it because I love her a lot.

1547
01:11:14.220 --> 01:11:19.619
But it didn't...

1548
01:11:19.619 --> 01:11:21.720
I love a low effort sitcom.

1549
01:11:21.779 --> 01:11:23.699
I might not have been in the mood for it.

1550
01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:25.260
Did you watch all of it?

1551
01:11:25.319 --> 01:11:26.279
Or just one.

1552
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:27.420
Yeah.

1553
01:11:27.479 --> 01:11:30.239
I was with Robert and we thought we would...

1554
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:33.779
In the 2nd season, the daughter was outed as a Doctor Who fan

1555
01:11:33.779 --> 01:11:34.260
which is wonderful.

1556
01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:35.880
So in random episodes.

1557
01:11:35.939 --> 01:11:38.159
She's dressed up like Tom Baker for no reason at all.

1558
01:11:38.340 --> 01:11:40.079
Which is very funny.

1559
01:11:40.500 --> 01:11:42.659
Oh, I really enjoy it.

1560
01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:43.920
I should give that another watch through.

1561
01:11:43.979 --> 01:11:45.060
His way.

1562
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:46.140
Oh my god, what fun.

1563
01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:47.220
Yeah, that's great.

1564
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:50.520
I'm going to go and watch it now, but unfortunately, I am going to

1565
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:52.439
go and get them finally.

1566
01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:54.180
I'll seduce you, Niles.

1567
01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:56.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. all that time.

1568
01:11:56.640 --> 01:11:58.319
See, I shaved my head this morning.

1569
01:11:58.380 --> 01:12:00.960
I can't, why did I do that?

1570
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:04.319
I went out to lunch.

1571
01:12:04.619 --> 01:12:11.039
Yeah. and the beard. is, I think that was Friday.

1572
01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:11.939
Was that Friday?

1573
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:14.460
Okay, cutting it down quite so much.

1574
01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:17.460
I mean, look, mine's really long at the moment.