Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this week, we're back with my first love, which is Star Trek
The Next Generation, and we are in series six.
It's episode nine, The Quality of Life.
And I'm going to put my cards right on the table.
I thought that this was absolutely magnificent.
Like not Darmok level magnificent, but just an absolutely solid
episode of Star Trek that does the sort of things that I want Star
Trek to do, I think.
I'm going to put my cars on the table.
I knew you were going to think this was magnificent and I sent it
out to you in a message because, well, how far into this are we
now?
120 episodes.
I'm 27 this is.
You know, I've started to get a grasp of the source Star Trek that
you like.
And that's Star Trek that has something to say has something to
say about sort of strange new lives and new civilisations, you
know, and how you quantify a life form and all of these sorts of
things.
I was a little bit bored watching this, and I think I've come to a
bit of a conclusion about Star Trek and me, and that is, I don't
really like Star Trek when it's doing Star Trek, because I
acknowledge this is really great Star Trek, and it's saying
something in a way that only Star Trek uniquely can in science
fiction and it's doing it kind of well as well.
I do think there were great moments in this, but...
I don't really care about strange new worlds and new civilisations
and all of this.
I don't really care about androids doing pro rights for other
robots.
None of that stuff, you know, that's that belongs to Albert in far
beyond the stars, you know, robots.
Whereas I think I prefer my Star Trek a little more cynical than
this, a little more muscular.
Um, a little more thick with incident and and a little, because
like this was very A to B to see TNG plotting.
And this was very laxly directed, I thought, for the most part
even though it was Jonathan Frakes.
So one of the things that strikes me is that last week we did an
episode that was reasonably similar, which was Voyager's Death
Wish.
In that, it was very Star Trek.
It had a moral question that it posed and discussed, and for that
I actually thought it was worse than you thought it was.
I just thought that was a better bit of television.
It was Pacio.
It was funnier.
I thought it was better written. deaf wish than this.
You see, I think because Death Wish helps itself to kind of the
magic thing.
You know, that cheats a little bit.
And I did think it was less clever than it thought it was.
What I really liked here was that this version of Star Trek, unlike
Voyager, is still the competent people solving space problems
thing rather than competent people or God knows what kind of
people in the Delta Quadrant trying to get home.
And so this is them doing their normal job.
Like they're doing something that's really kind of bureaucratic
which is they're deciding whether to approve this new mining
technology.
Like all of that stuff is so Star Trek.
The 1st scene.
Establish colony, planet, latex people, scientific problem.
I was like, this couldn't be more cliche TNG if you tried.
And it very quickly becomes uncliche to energy.
But that establishing scene, I was like, oh, boy.
Well, it's exactly the thing that Lower Decks is making fun of
that version of Star Trek.
So that's something that I really love.
And I love Voyager as well, but this is kind of my 1st love, and
this is doing something sort of very purely Star Trek.
And I acknowledge that it's very talky, that it's very slow.
It really, really lacks any urgency.
There's the whole scene where Picard and Geordie are trapped on
board the station, and there's radiation flooding in, and somehow
I was like, that manages to be really not very exciting.
I know, you're going to love.
You're absolutely going to love the moment where they give the
execomp the choice to go in and sacrifice itself or not.
And I was just like, oh, this is so fucking tweed.
Of course that cutesy wootsy little robot is going to go in there
and do the right thing.
This is Star Trek.
Well, except, so, and that's the other thing.
Two weeks ago, we had peanut hamper and all throughout this.
And even in the lead up, yeah, even in the lead up, to us watching
this, I began to kick myself about peanut hamper because the
conception is, obviously, and I said this at the time, making an
exocomp, a member of Starfleet, is absolutely the next kind of
progression.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like, well, a Klingon becomes a member of Starfleet, a
Ferengi becomes a member of Starfleet, and then, obviously, an
Exocom becomes a member of Starfleet.
But the trouble with that is that it's established that the
exocomps will burn out their own control circuitry in order to
avoid going and sacrificing their life in some way.
And so that's what you have peanut hamper being confronted with.
She's given the decision.
Do I sacrifice my life to save these people?
And she says, uh, yeah, no, sucks to be organic. you know, smell
you later, which is so funny and so brilliant.
And it, why are we so hard on a robot that makes our choice?
Even a person made that short.
We'd be like, well, fair enough. yeah.
Yeah, but the people don't make that choice on Star Trek.
They were so boring.
No, they'd all sacrifice themselves. yeah.
They're very noble.
So that is kind of fun because the situation that peanut hamper
gets placed in is the situation that we see, the exo-coms in this
episode having to deal with and somehow I had stupidly never made
that link, I think that's pretty great.
But I would like to say that peanut hamper was also, you know, like
scathingly insulting to everybody and witty and had huge
personality and was just one and defied Star Trek conventions in
so many ways that made that episode such a joy to Watts.
Whereas this little sort of stubby robot, clearly on a wire. going
up and down the Jeffrey St.
Nomad tradition.
That's right.
You could almost all see it wobbling, can't you, when it starts
rising in the air.
Oh, I don't know.
It was a bit twee for me.
And I get it.
And there is this whole sort of subgenre or trek, there is very
twee and has these sort of morals about life.
And I think it is absolutely right that the majority of Star Trek
fans love that stuff.
But I watched Chain of Command after this.
Okay.
And I was just immediately sat up in my chair at Jellico being a
total bastard to me. on the bridge, them going on this dangerous
mission.
It was the politicking with the Cardassians.
It was just so packed with plot substance, you know, and and just
guts to it that I was like, yeah, that's the sort of Star Trek I
like.
So I acknowledge this is good.
I'm not sure it's as well executed as it could be.
But I acknowledge this is good telly and good Star Trek.
Oh, I just don't think it's for me.
And I said, unfortunate place to start.
But you can tell me all the wonderful things about it.
I will, I will.
But I have to acknowledge that every criticism that you level at
it is true.
And, you know, as someone who thinks that TV should be visual, This
is very stately.
It's people standing around in standing sets, plus that very small
extra green set, which is not very good and, you know.
So there was one point, right?
There was one point where I noticed, and it was the only point
where the direction really stood out to me, was when he put the
camera right at the back of the engineering set, and he sort of
slowly panning through it, Data's in this sort of cubby hole right
over there, and he sort of heading in as Dr. Beverly comes to
visit him.
And I was like, my God, it was the only thing I noticed.
And you know me, I always noticed the direction.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of well done, but it's not particularly
flashy or very interesting and it's visually not very
interesting.
Before we go in, though, I do want to say one thing, which is that
I think that of the episodes of Star Trek, the Next Generation
we've watched, this is Gates' best performance.
Oh, by mild.
That's included in the episodes that were about Dr. Beverly
because even in Remembering Me, which we laughed.
And she had great moments, but she was still sort of staring off
camera, reciting the Techna Babble quite a bit and looking
uncomfortable.
Boy, she's relaxed.
She's having great fun in the 1st scene, telling all the guys
well.
If you lose, you've got to cut all your beards off, you know.
I was like, who is this person in front of me, you know?
I don't recognise her?
Yeah, she was wonderful.
But I thought there were some nice moments for a lot of the
regulars.
They are such a well-oiled machine at this point.
And you can kind of put any shitty dialogue in their mouths and
you'll see the relaxed chemistry between all of them.
And it's there in space.
Yeah, this is the point at which they're really, really, you know
maximally relaxed.
I mean, the following year is not going to be particularly great.
Well, no, they're so relaxed at that and they stop writing as
well.
So, like, yeah.
But, you know, this is the version of Star Trek that I fell in
love with, and this is a particularly good example of that version
of Star Trek.
It is, as I said, not Dharmok level Star Trek, but it is pretty
solid and pretty likeable.
And I'm very happy to be here watching it this evening.
I sort of stepped back from my opinion of this and started
thinking, okay, so this was an enormous rate in success at this
point where fans and non-fans were watching this together.
Can I see why that might be the case?
And I was like, yeah, because you do have a strong ensemble of
actors who are having great fun together.
It is tackling intelligent themes.
It is working to a formula, which people like in television
right?
They like relaxing into a formula of a particular show where it's
not going to stress you out too much watching it.
And it's competently made.
So yeah, I can absolutely see why this was working like
gangbusters for Berman pillar at the moment.
I'm just pleased DS9 was just around the corner. you know?
I think that's fair.
I think that's absolutely fair All right, what do you think?
Should we go in?
Let's play poker.
Come on.
All right.
I'll count it in.
Five, four, three, two, one.
And we're off.
Now, this seems an important scene because it's the source of the
Geordie La Forge Drake posting meme.
And so we will see him both approving and disapproving of
something, which is pretty awesome.
I think this...
It's also one of the very few times where, like you say, something
that's happening outside the television show is impacting the
television show because Geordie LeFord obviously never has a beard
usually, but LeVar Burton, Arsenal producers. getting married next
week.
I want my beard for my wedding and this is me at my best.
Can I please have the beers?
And they said, all right, we'll put in a scene.
So they've written the scene especially for his beard.
So he has a beard in the offspring, but not in the the episode
before or after that.
And he has this beard for a few episodes.
I think he looks as hot as ever.
This is...
He should have kept it the whole time.
There's Laval. ever looks.
He's stunning here.
I mean, I'm still agonised on the loss of his beautiful eyes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In every scene, I'll see you in, but it's ridiculous.
But yes, he looks really hot here.
And this scene is so great because there he is.
Yes, he's approving.
Um, so Beverly is so great in this scene.
She's really good.
She's got all these men wrapped around her finger.
There is a kind of weird relationship between her and Riker, which
I really like, and again, it's mostly from the actors because no
one's really consistently writing character stuff for anyone in
this show, really.
But they have...
Dr. Beverly can remember when Odan was inside Riker and they had
it off that time.
Yeah.
Ever since then there's been a little spark.
There is a little spark of chemistry, I think, between them.
Um, and she's absolutely playing them all because they're being
men and, and, you know, beards are a whatever, um, and she
compares it to like lipstick and nail polish and stuff.
It says that it's just a lot.
But then when she when she started talking about when she was a
brunette when she was 13, she couldn't die air back fast enough.
I'm like, my God, she's talking like a real person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't know she was capable.
The last time we saw this was when she was dancing with Data, a
day of day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's really good And she will come back and do
some more traditional Star Trek scenes with techno Babylon stuff
and it will still be as relaxed and likeable as she is in this
scene.
I think it's really good.
Here we go.
No, I love all of this.
And you know, I can see why the poker scenes, they did them again
and again and again, because it's just a chance for these
wonderful actors to just sit around a table together and bask in
their chemistry.
Because often the poker scenes do have something thematic to do
with the episode, but this one has nothing at all to do with it.
It really is.
It's just to excuse the bit.
I mean, I mean, nowadays, a character would just have a beard one
week and you wouldn't even comment on it.
That happened before.
We don't need to comment on it.
So that show there.
Do you remember when, do you remember when, just go have that
beard before he had his real beard?
It was terrible.
The shot, the exterior with the particle fountain with the orbital
station and stuff just looks like a lower decks scene to me. you
know.
It looks like a pin flying in space.
I mean, awesome.
It looks great.
So this is Ellen Bry, as Dr. Farrellon.
She is our basically our only guest star this week.
I think she's pretty good.
I don't know why these 2 are so angry at each other in this
scene.
I don't quite get.
They don't seem to quite work out what she's supposed to be like
realistic.
Yeah.
They do write Georgie as being an angry prick quite a lot.
I know what that is.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, remember when he was angry at Leo Broms, when he was angry
at Scotty?
I mean, he just gets angry for no reason at all.
I mean, he's got a very boring job.
I can understand.
Maybe that's it.
But I thought she was pretty good as well.
And I thought, this is an actor that's come in, and I've got a
quote from Jonathan Frakes on memory Alfred, who said he tried out
all these actresses, who were just drowning in this hideous techno
babble that she has to say, and she just came in and said it as if
that was her 2nd language.
Yeah.
So that's why she got the job and she is great.
She's kind of clipped and crisp and on it.
She's keeping pace with LeVar.
Um, you know, if you can keep pace with Lavard and Tether Babble.
Yeah, well, you're doing something right.
Yeah.
But it isn't a very promising premise. you know, like we're
assessing this mining technology.
It's a very dull set, this as well.
Yeah, the set isn't very good, is it?
And it's tiny. it's so small Oh, a bit of hardheld camera work.
Yeah, I didn't notice that the 1st time.
It's sort of tilted, just a little camera around.
She was doing something. falling overacting.
Think about what you do with drones these days.
Now, this object, this is going to appear.
You know the thing with the, it's got 2 tubes of flashing lights
in it.
It's a piece of equipment.
That 1st appears in Star Trek 2, and it's visible in Star Trek 5
and it's in about like a bunch of Star Trek, the Next Generation
episodes and some Voyager episodes.
It's just out of shot.
Ill point it out.
It plays a starring role and there it is.
There it is, those light tube things there.
That piece of equipment is in every episode just about.
And they do put it in a lower decks episode as well. even though
it's just a drawing, obviously, of that equipment.
Yeah, do you know, I say this to you a lot, but you know you're
winning at life when you're cataloguing how many times, you know, a
piece of technology appears in a next generation episode. thing is
so visible and so definitely a Star Trek, the Next Generation
thing.
I wonder if there's any TSLots.
We should keep an eye out parrot in order not in anything.
I did a bit of research.
Oh, okay.
They've got their own thing they use all the time.
It's in Data Law, subtly human, Retrospect, Pathfinder Inside
Man.
And it's in an episode of Enterprise.
It's in Cold Station 12.
Oh, everything but...
Everything's fine there.
It's not.
Oh, look at him coming out of the string.
On its string.
It sort of wobbles like a barfell model worm, you know?
Oh, nomad's alive, isn't he?
He's got these little antennas that wibble out of his head as well
very cute.
Don't you remember those antennas going alarmingly or ranked when
Peanut Hamper and Rowder were about to have...
I try to forget about that, if I'm honest.
But yeah.
Frank, you very much.
Yeah, the snocking.
I think it's an incredibly good design, don't you?
I think it's really great I don't know how you say in a name.
Is it Naran Shankar?
That's the Ry of that episode.
Naran Shankar.
Um, said that she's, she, he?
Hey, they foresaw the exacomp as something a bit more functional
you know?
Um, and he thought that because it was such a such a cute design
you know, that everyone would fall in love with.
It's sort of, it does tell you where the episode's going.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, because you have feelings for it.
I think that's the right idea.
If it had been, if it had been just a bit of equipment and there
were times when they just decided, oh, it's going to be just bits
of equipment that are sentient and we can't use it.
But it might have been more surprising.
Yeah, it had just been a bit of equipment.
You know, you've got to have data prioritise its rights over
rescuing Geordie Picard.
And if they're just sort of toasters or whatever, you know, like
we have to feel that they're cute, I think, and that's the right
decision.
That's why Peter Humper works so brilliantly, because obviously
she is one of those very cute endcons and she's just a cub, isn't
she?
So, no, Shaker becomes quite a big deal towards the end of Star
Trek, the Next Generation.
And so his 1st his 1st one is the 1st duty, which is co-written
with Ronald D. Moore.
Fabulous.
And he does the teleplay for face of the enemy.
But he does some duds as well.
So he co-writes suspicions with Joe Manosky.
Oh, I mean, I mean, that is terrible, but in a very, very funny
way.
He does great standard.
Gambit, force of nature, homeward, preemptive strike, and Babel in
Deep Space 9, which we've already torn to pieces, obviously.
Oh, no, we haven't.
Have we done it?
Have we done babel?
No.
We haven't done babel.
No, that's the aphasia virus.
That's terrible.
And the quickening.
He does the quickening too, which is pretty good.
Really?
Yeah, that's a good episode.
And heroes and demons, which is not a good episode.
So, um, So, I think, I think my problem is so. like, look, look at
him holding that.
Now, it's like he's holding a door.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, no, I know that's got life to it.
Look at it.
Take a little puppy.
Even though the script has given me no indication at this point
that that is a cute little dog robot, but I mean, it just looks
like...
The design is giving you that.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's good.
Or it's just sort of like, oh, I want one, you know?
Yeah, is that going to be in the shops at Christmas?
I want it.
In fact, that's what's interesting, isn't it?
Because it's not quite life in the sense that data is life, and
I'm not quite sure, but it still has rights if it is alive.
And like all of that stuff.
You know, that, the moment towards the end of the episode where
where he says to Picard, where Data says to Picard, you defended
me in the season 2 episode measure of a man, and we're all kind of
going, oh my god, it's a continuity reference, that never
happens.
But, you know, relitigating this stuff, that's what Star Trek
should do.
Look at the inside of it.
It looks so cool.
Did you see that bit of dialogue there on the scrutiny as I walked
down the corridor, they just go, well, yes, you know, it modulates
the asynchronous shielding of the delivery.
And then she went, she went, she went, oh, really?
How fascinating.
I was just like, oh, please.
I love that dialogue.
It is so over the top that even Geordie has left out.
So the 2 of them in that ring.
He just holds the dog.
I'll carry the dog then.
He can't even contribute.
And he's the king of chicken.
Like, that technobap is so deliberately over the top and
Wonderful.
I just thought that was brilliant.
It reminds me of that scene.
Do you remember of Neelix in Threshold, where at the end of the
scene, they talk a lot of Tetler Babble, he just goes, I have no
idea what they were talking about.
Putting Geordie in that position is pretty clever.
I was thinking as well, right?
Like, obviously, they've used the same ex-comp design for lower
decks because that is the ex-comp design.
But if they were designing it now, and it would have all these
fabulous CGI appendages coming out, wouldn't it?
And it'll be able to do lots of impressive things, but all this
thing does is something materialises in the front of it. and it
sort of goes in and out. like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and
the lights go.
That's really all.
But I mean, nomad didn't do anything.
It just sort of wandered around on a string.
It didn't have little bits, little motors in it moving things
around.
It had flashing lights, didn't it?
No mat just flew about all over the place.
It was wonderful.
Do you remember we went up and down that shoe?
Oh my god.
And, you know, there was another fall that popped into my head, you
know, you as a dog lover, you know, and there is, they're all sort
of doing a doggy-like thing with this ex-acon.
I thought, oh, he's going to love it.
It's just going to love it.
Yeah, they're adorable.
Now, I'm no longer going to get you the Tom Paris threshold action
figure.
You know, the the salamander.
The gross one.
Yeah.
I'm going to get you an next copy. awesome.
So what do we think of Dr. Farallon's look?
Well, she's got latex on her hands, do you know?
Michael Westmore's given her a better slap.
I just wish they hadn't done it.
Oh, well, just had her just as a normal person.
Yeah, yeah.
Just as human.
She doesn't need to be an alien.
And it just is a little bit distracting.
And she's a beautiful woman and it, you know, like it's kind of a
thing.
Have we had the choice yet where we where we found out, you know
why everyone's humanoid, but they've just got slightly different
crevices on their heads.
I think that might be a little bit later.
I'm not sure.
Of course, as we know, Discovery season five, did you know?
Is about the chase.
And it, oh, really?
Yeah, we constantly see pictures of Salome Jens.
Great.
You know, for such an important episode, the chase is staggeringly
boring.
But it does reach a really interesting conclusion.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And it's a very Star Trek conclusion that's the All Men are
Brothers conclusion that Septimus and Flavius discovered.
Some poor technician on this episode is holding the strings
above.
His arms are, my arms are really aching.
Can I put it down?
Yeah, he's going through it.
Isn't he up in the lighting grid with...
So cute.
I mean, there was just so delightful about robots. track, isn't
there?
No, more puppets, I think, on Star Trek, just generally, is a good
thing.
No, I hate to keep regular us back to threshold, but those lizards
do you remember?
You were awesome.
Life-size lizards.
I know the best thing about it.
Have you noticed, right?
I don't know why, but there's this sort of glass screen in the
middle of that set.
It gives Jonathan break something to shoot through every now and
again to make an interesting shot.
Now, the exacompass just disobeyed his commands and come back out
of the out of the Jeffreys tube.
I like this too. like her remote control, her iPad there, it like
sparks and she drops it and she sells that really well, I think
you know, she does a really good job.
And so this is peanut hamper saying, you know, I'm not doing
that.
The rocks.
I look at the rocks surrounded by rocks.
I had to message you out there.
Because that's clearly like a technological conduit.
Why it's packed with that many rocks?
I have no idea.
Well, it's a mining danger.
It's like they want to hurt people with the design of their
technology, isn't it?
Why did nobody ask the question?
It could have just been metal, right?
Twisted metal.
I think rocks are cheaper than twisted metal is the thing.
They've got them still from yesterday's enterprise.
We've got those in the store.
Just throw them in there.
A lot of...
But even I will say, at this point where the X-Com starts making
autonomous choices. my interest perked up because the 1st 10
minutes I was like, oh boy, you know, stock standard next
generation plot number 52.
Geordie has to write a report and submit it, submit it to Picard
and he'll make a final decision and like it all seems...
Oh, come on.
This is this is the one chance when you can say no, there's only
one because there is only one TNG.
Very, very.
So this, I think, is good too.
And this is, um, so we get this in emergence as well, where the
enterprise computer undergoes a similar thing where these nodules
are formed, remember?
In the computer.
Is that the one on the holiday with the magical bridge?
Yeah, yeah, it's not very good.
But, but hideous episode.
But it is that kind of thing that we're doing at the moment.
So these little nodules that are appearing in the Xocomp, and the
fact that she interprets it as corruption, like data corruption
and she re-initializes them, because they start to behave oddly
and it's like once an exocop gets like that, you know, it's no
good, and I have to have to re-initialize it.
And that's it, developing consciousness, you know, like, and so
the idea is that because the, they're sufficiently complex, and
because they make themselves, they make more, like they make more
pathways, because they're always described in terms of sort of
pathways and stuff, like the human brain.
So has she stumbled upon this life form entirely by accident?
Because I swear she said she just sort of mushed together a load
of technology to see if it would work.
So there was no sort of design to this.
She was just sort of trying things out to make a better piece of
equipment.
Yeah, so she says it's a basic servo robot that she's worked on
but what she's given it is the problem solving ability and the
ability to change itself, you know, it's a program itself
physically based on the input that it's received.
Data is suddenly making...
Oh, the look he just gave me...
Yeah.
And I will say props to Brent Spiner in this episode because I
just, I, I don't know how he does it by not expressing a single
emotion and yet emoting all over the place.
No, but not in the way that an actor normally would.
He's still got to keep his voice level and things like that.
When he meets Dr. Farrell on and smiles and stuff, like he's
really properly enthusiastic about meeting her.
Yeah.
So this is where...
But that sort of, that, that 2nd there where the camera just
lingered on him and he's looking a bit.
Look at him, he...
Like, I think he was...
I think he like that is much less walking around the set.
That is much less that's much less static than this show is
normally.
Do you know what I mean?
Having the camera just go around his table.
That's a pretty unusual thing, and that's, that's Frank's, you
know, whirling the camera around, which he'll...
Oh, and then a zoom in on day. when you realise something.
I think that's pretty good.
Joe, maybe they saw the rushes coming in and when, my God, John
you move the camera.
You're going to do 1st contact.
I think that's it.
Oh, this is so Star Trek.
And this is this is the sort of thing that we would get in any
version of 90s trek.
So this is her talking about climbing trees as a little girl and
I'm kind of going, oh, you've got to be fucking kidding me.
Like, it's so it's so bad.
We don't care about your backstory line.
It isn't gonna make you any more interesting.
No, she's selling it though.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like she's tired and she's giving herself time to have a
break and she's much more chill and happy and relaxed than she is
and she kind of realises that she's been super stressed and the 2
of them have this really relaxed body language after being quite
combative in that 1st scene.
And I think it's really good.
I mean, it's fucking pure cheese, this scene.
So, so right.
I usually broke a bone in the process, but I never let it stop
me.
Oh my god.
You must be a determined character then.
But it's still not as bad. as that thing where Garak says, oh, it
turns out this game is a metaphor for our relationship.
Oh, they hang out a lantern on it, though.
Now, look at Beverly in this scene.
Look at this.
So she's been injured.
She's sitting there on the thing super relaxed.
She's having real fun while she's doing the dermal regenerator on
herself because he's hit her with a bat laugh.
And look how much fun she's having and how relaxed she is.
She's all...
Which imagine has loosened her up to this extent.
I don't know I don't know.
I think, I think that the doctor thing doesn't work for her and
whenever she's having to live, deliver doctor dialogue, she's
super wooden.
But whenever she's just... 98% of the time.
I know, I know.
But look at it here.
So this is absolutely an exposition.
They put a mild sedative in her coffee before she started that day
you know.
Just to loosen her up a little bit.
Because this is her being serious.
This isn't character work.
This is her giving him a definition of life and they're discussing
what life is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, you know, I mean, I suppose she is doing...
She is talking Dr. V stuff here, isn't she?
She's talking about how you determine life.
And it's clearly why Data's gone to see her in particular because
she's a doctor.
But look, look.
Oh, I did like him saying about fire.
The fire creates offspring.
Yeah, but she has some normal reaction.
She just says, oh, it's a chemical reaction.
Do you know what I mean?
And there are some other things that are borderline and we don't
think they're alive.
But the technobabble she's talking about here. all real stuff
right?
It's not made up shitty Star Trek techno babble that Jason
McFadden does not understand.
Exactly right.
And she knows what this scene is about.
And so she's really selling it.
And look, look.
She looks beautiful there as well.
I mean, oftentimes I'll be on the way she sits.
Look at how she's got her knee up.
The way she was sitting on that bio bed.
You know, he, like, seriously, go back and watch her in series
one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know, I know.
The Edo want to execute my son, Jean-Luc.
It's like she's a different person.
So I suppose, like, we don't have character growth in the accepted
sense in TNG, but what we have is actor relaxer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That happens over the seasons. and she's great.
This is, I mean, I think this is her thing.
They just gotten used to delivering this bullshit as well, haven't
they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, because sub-Rosa, is that season seven?
I think it is isn't it?
Well, she was very relaxed in that one.
But yeah, that's right.
But she was kind of terrible in that.
Like that was overwrought and ridiculous and all of that.
Here, like she's magnificent.
And this is just perfect.
I think if she'd have if she'd have held back for a 2nd in sub
rosa, we would have been condemning her for it.
No, no, no.
She went for it and then some.
Yeah.
That's fair.
Oh, he's shooting through the glass panel. you go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's the only bloody thing I can do with this terrible, sad
terrible set.
The other thing is, there are quite a lot of extras in it until it
comes time to evacuate it, and then there's only about 4 people
because that's all that will fit in that transporter.
Like I don't quite know what's happening there.
Oh, I love this where he comes in and just declares that the
execoms are a form of life.
Is this an ad break now?
Yeah, yeah.
This is our ad.
It's a good one.
It's a really good one.
And of course, then you know you're going to get the scene where
she's going, well, how utterly ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, that's this, isn't it?
And you get, I like the way Patrick Stewart plays it as well
because he, you can kind of see he's on her side, but he's got a
humour data because he trusts data.
I like the conclusion that it's like he kind of understands
machines a bit better, so his instincts about them. correct, like
or more likely to be correct, because he's in sympathy with them.
And I thought that worked really well, you know, that he's more
willing to recognise them as a life form.
And I do like giving him some political consciousness where he now
wants to intervene to ensure that they're not exploited.
I think it really good.
I think it's where I like, every time you start talking about, you
know, the definition of life in the universe, like Dr. Beverly was
a minute ago, all those Star Trek fans, they get goosebumps all
over their arms. you know, this this is an instant classic now.
We're talking about, you know, the meaning of life. real sort of
um, thoughtful stuff that you can get your teeth into.
Now, let me...
It is good Star Trek.
Let me bring it back down.
Just a bit dull.
And just say that I think that Deanna's look in this scene is
maybe her best look ever.
And I think...
Well, so she's going to say something, she'll say something, but
she has really good hair.
So instead of being old bun haired.
She has very curly hair tied back and old bunheads.
Yeah, there she is.
Like, there she is.
Yeah, I just, no, no bar, but in the next episode, Chaino Command
she's clearly been down the beach for a couple of weeks, right?
The tan, it's the same hair, but with a tan.
I think that what they're doing is that they've decided to
actually respect the colour.
Do you know what I mean?
Because she's, you know, Greek or partly Greek, she has darker
skin, and she's got those eyes, the black, you know, contact
lenses, and so they've just given her a browner, darker kind of
colour palette on her mate, with her makeup, and it looks great.
It looks so much better than she used to look.
It's so strange though, because in series one, she's more albino
than dates are.
They put so much white face up on her face.
And so this, again, is a more relaxed look for her, her hair looks
more normal.
And when she gets into the uniform next episode with that hair and
makeup, she looks great. so good I think this may be the one trek
show where the women are much better looking than the men.
On the whole, obviously.
Those lips are very accentuated by his beard, aren't they?
He looks bad.
Oh boy.
We're getting a bit sleaze in our quick chase subject, yeah.
No, the beard, it's a thing.
But please, once we've watched this, right, just go and look at
her in chain of command, because she's several hues darker in
that.
Yeah, even darker.
But you can see that she's enjoying that American life.
But, you know, she's got brown lipstick on rather than bright red
lipstick in this episode and it looks a lot better.
See, I think this, like deciding to shoot from the Jeffreys tube
past the AxoComp and having them assemble in position there.
Like, I think this is well well directed.
I mean, they are all in shot there. and it's all deliberately
staged in a very 90s way.
Just a little bit more thoughtful short composition than this show
often does, I think.
He's good.
I think they can't do.
They can do dynamic direction.
I watched a game the other day and you shouldn't, the bit where
Wesley was being chased around the ship was being shot up, down
left, right.
It was okay.
It was crazy.
Well, I mean, that's the other thing with Star Trek too, is that
this episode, which is very talky and a bit philosophical and not
super complex.
Oh.
That's so great.
So good.
That is like that affects shot.
This is also this is also a strength and a weakness of this
episode in that I do think this is a great scene.
I think the outcome of this scene where you realised that the
Xecom realised that the whole thing was a ploy.
And so he just basically stopped the simulation.
Instead of saving himself.
But boy, we have to go for all of this plodding to get there.
You know, like we had to go through the motions to get to that
point.
But I think I want to see this.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I want to see them experimenting, experimenting.
I want to see them trying something and observing its behaviour.
I want to see them making a judgement.
I love it.
No, no, I absolutely love it.
And again, because it's comprehensible too.
It's not just, you know, the Voyager thing of them just shouting
polysyllabic words at one another across the bridge.
You know, like it's very clear what's going on.
We love us as well.
Don't lie.
I know, but you know me, and you know my favourite trek is like
it's like DS97, where they're juggling like 15 plots.
And all those characters, and there's so much happening.
Boy, 0 boy, this really is nuts and bolts A to B to C, you know?
And then, you love it.
Yeah, I love it.
Look, I mean, you know, like I love Kurtzman Trek.
I love discovery and discovery isn't much like this, generally
although they are smart and they do solve space problems.
Sorry to interrupt you, but this was that startling bit of
direction I had pointed out earlier.
Well, there's a bit of depth to it, isn't it?
Well, I think too, we weren't aware of that space, which I really
liked.
It's kind of like we've walked past that wall heaps of times.
Don't forget, the door's open usually, is it?
No, is it?
That's right.
So we weren't aware that space was behind there, and I really like
that.
Like, it's a little new part.
This is why Tuesday morning, so my favourite morning of the week
finding new cubby holes on the Enterprise, you know?
Yeah, exactly.
No I love it.
Dr. Beverly has just come in and she goes, now, data, I must
distract you for at least a minute.
Okay?
So you don't send the command to the ex-comp.
So the plot, the plot can continue.
But this is good though, because this is about how he feels about
the failure of the experiment.
That was my favourite thing about this episode was the impact on
data and data admitting, and it's just there where he says, I
won't be alone anymore.
I will be the only one of my kind as mechanical life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. puppies as well. like robot
puppies.
And I think that is adorable.
Do you not think then though, on the back of this, it shouldn't
have taken 30 years or whatever it was, to see the X-Comps again
that maybe Data should have had an X-Comp, or they should have
used one on the Enterprise at this point, or I don't know, it's
like, why are we doing this?
Well, I think we're doing it just, you know, this is still
syndicated TV and it's not something that has a lot of
continuity.
And I think both, like, Picard picks up on synths and makes them a
thing years later, and the XO comps come into lower decks, you
know, a decade or so later.
You know, like where were they going to appear if they weren't
going to appear in series 7?
There's not going to be one on Voyager or anything.
Well, just like you have those fabulous little robots going about
on Discovery.
Yeah, they could have the exacons.
Just going about, just have one fly path.
Yeah.
I mean, that's what I mean, a hamper.
You're okay.
That's one of the things I love about Discovery, is those little
robots that come and fix things and hoover stuff up and that's
awesome, you know?
Well, I don't I don't buy that.
The writers of 90s trek can't see something and go, wow, that's a
really good idea.
Let's integrate it.
We've talked about Jeffrey Coombs and the clones before, you
know?
Yeah, but that's Steve Says 9. that's when they're learning to do
that.
And remember before they do that.
They try to make episodes like this, uh, and they're kind of
terrible because they're not really suited to the setting or the
crew that they have or anything.
You know, they're so resistant, no one.
They're so resistant on TNG to have anything that links these
things. aren't they?
Because it was syndicated because sometimes they were shown out of
order.
Oh, yes.
Hugely impressive piece of equipment there.
There's this one here where the 2 sort of domes.
Yeah, well, I've seen Beverly growing fungus in there in clues.
Do you know what I mean?
That's in Beverly's thing, and I'm sure that she was growing that
whatever the hell it was in Clues.
I see Dr. Beverly grown fungus.
Oh boy, this really is the highlight of my wig.
That set is so much more impressive with the lights now.
Just turn the lights off more often, okay?
Yeah, just think the green is not helping.
There's lots of light sources within the scene as well.
So it's still lit up.
It's what we said about it in Picard, wasn't it?
Just find it interesting weight of lighting the set from within
the set.
But I mean, I think that the engineering set where that scene with
Beverly and data, you know, just now, where that was shot, like I
thought that had interesting backgrounds.
Yeah, look, now there's only 4 other people on the on the thing.
Maybe they've been, uh, maybe they've been transporting them out
earlier, but uh, like whatever.
And I think I think the reason why we don't really buy this
Jeopardy, the Picard and La Forge are in.
It's because, well, one, we know they're not going to be leaving
in this dreary episode.
And two, that's not what this episode is about.
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, and all of that stuff gets thrown away.
The particle fountain stuff is now thrown away too, because that
was really never important either.
And in fact, the particle fountain experiment kind of fails.
The thing blows up, you know, she kind of goes, oh, back to the
drawing board, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So that doesn't matter either.
Well, you take a look, please, at this sub O'Brien Transporter
Chief that they've got now in series 6 of TNG.
So this is Kelso.
He only does this episode.
And I was actually a very boring job.
That's why.
I was a little bit shocked, actually, in the early scene where he
appears before that he got any dialogue at all because he just
looked like a, you know, part of the scenery.
He was just going to operate the thing.
So he gets dialogue there because he's actually a speaking part.
The only other speeding part.
But when those, you know, when the Starfleet people beamed onto
the transporter pad, there was a shot of one of the security
people sort of walking out the door.
Yeah.
She threw a filthy look back at everybody else.
She's in a wall.
What was going on there?
She's on the bridge quite a lot, that woman.
I don't know what her name is, but she's a very frequent featured
you know, she's an extra.
It was a sort of look that said, oh, I'm the only one hitting my
mark, am I?
Okay.
I like watching the extras.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, they don't get a lot to do, so they have to get noticed
somehow.
No, see, there's some people in the background of this scene.
Nathan.
Yeah.
This is just like perfect TNG for people, isn't it?
We had a scene in the conference room with everyone around there
discussing an issue.
Scenes in engineering, scenes around the poker table, kid robots
quality of life.
I mean, it's just got everything Trek fans could possibly watch.
All, rather, TNG fans could possibly watch.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
This isn't much like a original trek, is it, really, at all?
No.
No, that was that was far less competent space people doing.
Yeah, there was a big problem.
There was a bit of it.
They had a bit more fun, didn't they?
Yeah.
I mean, and everyone had that sort of wry smile on their face
knowing it was all a bit of sort of Gubbins, but Elvis, they take
it very seriously.
I mean, that was the criticism at the time, wasn't it?
That original Star Trek fans didn't like Next Generation, because
it was too talky and too worthy, and, you know, I mean, they've
got a point.
No, of course they do.
I was very cross at them at the time.
I thought they were ridiculous but yes, they had a point.
Exactly.
This is very talking.
We all just went, yeah, but look at the ship.
Look at the stars.
Yeah, it looks amazing.
That's right.
Now we go, oh, how embarrassing.
Oh, love what the special effects were.
Well, we're watching the new special effects.
Oh, gorgeous.
They were even worse at the at the time.
Where even the animated special effects are just stunning.
I mean, there's the particle fountain, look.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Looking magnificent.
Oh, look at the 3X of comps.
So good.
Come on we're taking the dogs out for a walk.
That is so adorable.
Oh, dear right, dear.
Let's give them let's give them the choice as to whether they want
to do this or not.
No, just fucking send them in.
Jesus Christ.
I think that this.
I think that this is actually the surprising bit, because he's
just in the set, in the background, and then he turns around and
says, actually, I'm not going to let them go.
And that's that's a surprise.
Like, that's a surprise next step and that's a great ad break
thing and a great character moment.
It is, it is, and it is, and it is the best moment of the
episode.
Yeah, yeah, it's a real surprise. one moment where I saw sat up
and went, is he really going to let Picard die to save the X-Con?
And this scene is really good too, because, because if this had
been an enterprise scene, you know, Archer would have been in
there screaming at him and, and, you know, like just completely
dismissing anything that he had to say.
And here Riker is saying, look, these are your friends.
You know, like, what are you doing?
Um, and like some of those little doggies.
Yeah, potentially my friends.
But he comes up with a proper solution and it's Riker's idea, isn't
it?
to restore their command pathways and let them make the decision
and like that respect status belief.
You know, because data is not an idiot.
Like we talk about data's belief.
You know, he believes that their life, in which case it would be
wrong to treat them in this way.
And remember what they're proposing is just sticking bombs on them
and transporting them to the fountain.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, you're not allowed to do that to people.
Like, if the solution had been...
I think they've got shared memory.
That's why Peter Hump is like no way.
No way.
But, like, if it had been, we're going to stick bombs to spot, and
we're going to transport spot into the particle fountain, we would
have kind of gone, actually, I think that's really not
acceptable.
Do you know what I mean?
We better don't do that.
It was the only thing we had left to do.
Sorry.
But do you know what I mean?
we have to are on the side of them.
If they're sentient beings, we cannot strap bombs to them and and
like, even if it's going to save Picard, but shouldn't there be
some sort of fallback?
He has disobeyed an order. shouldn't he be punished for this?
Yeah, but they do that all the time on this.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not quite as bad as Garak murdering a guy. and then...
No, because you said it at the end, well, you know why.
You shouldn't have taken me with her, you know?
I've got that murderous gloom in my eye all the time.
I do agree with what Riker says, though.
He does go, this is a hell of a risk that you're taking. on our
supposition.
The way he plays it too, where he says, I'll unlock the
transporter thing, if they agree, and Riker smiles and says fair
enough, and then they walk out, like he's not a dick bag about
it.
He's Riker, you know, like, and he respects, he respects data.
I think it's really, really well actors.
And, well, plus, they can't really do sustain conflict on this
show.
No, but I don't want them to.
I think that's boring.
I think, you know, people think that drama is conflict, but I
don't think it has to be.
It don't have to be boring.
No, conflict doesn't have to be boring.
But it often is.
Like it can be.
Like, the idea that Star Trek, the Next Generation is boring
because there's no interpersonal conflict between the characters, I
think, is wrong.
You better speak to the writers then, because they all thought
that come at the end of the series.
Yeah, they're super lazy then, because that's a formal constraint
that they should be placing on themselves.
I think it's, I think that people working together to achieve
something who have differences of opinion or who face obstacles.
It doesn't have to be... can be boring as well.
People working together to achieve a goal.
So that can be very dumb. be beachy conflict.
Like that's not in itself interesting either.
That's what I'm saying.
I don't think that conflict is necessary.
The trouble with this show is these characters are so sort of ill
formed. the regulars that the conflict is frequently. it feels
very unbelievable Whereas if they're working together as a team
well, that's just built into their characters because they are
their jobs. jobs. yeah that's right.
So there are only 2 exocomp props built.
I can see three.
So one of them is matted into that shot.
Um, So, yeah, they only been too.
I didn't waste that new special effects budget.
No.
So it's seamless.
But they're just sort of hanging there on strings, which is, which
is kind of awesome.
And they've put new wibbly.
See, this is another thing.
On the one that's matted in, is he sort of bobbing up down as
well?
So he's the one that's very stationary.
No, because they're all wobbling.
I'm guessing that it's like three, you know, they've shot actual
just live footage of the XOcoms in different positions and then
have mattered them together.
It's not like computer generated.
I think it's just footage that they've kind of combined.
What I think is super interesting and no one says anything is that
data is able to tell what is happening between the XO comps and
what they're doing by looking at that beam because he has a
visor.
Don't you think?
And so that just enables him to kind of read.
That it.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, Geordie.
Geordie, when he looks at the, at the, at the beams that are going
between the exocomps.
Oh, look at them all standing in a roadway.
Look at the little...
Oh, there's only one left.
Oh, no.
He's the brave one who stayed behind.
One of them should turn around and just go bleep, bleep, bleep.
He wanted to sacrifice himself.
That's right.
I suppose there had to be some form of self-sacrifice, you know, so
we so we feel for them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I thought that was good, actually, because everyone kind of
felt it with them, and now here we go.
Here's relaxed Dr. Farallon, who's much more chill.
And Picard's changing his way out. 40 minutes left to determine
the fate of the ex-coms now.
Like, now, now we've decided that they are a life form.
Um, she just goes, well, I won't be treating them as simple tools
doctor.
Yeah, yeah, but that's okay.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, in a way we don't really need this scene all that much, but
that's what Star Trek does.
It has to have a closing off scene.
In memory, Alfred said that Frakes wanted a closing scene where
you know, they're about to shave their beard. or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we never go back to it.
Oh, I love this line.
I thought you might, you know, you might want to know why I was
willing to risk your life for the sake of several small machines.
It's such a funny line.
And Picard just goes, no, no, I understand.
I am a bit annoying.
But I mean, it's like, you know, like, like, you know, as we tick
the boxes of your standard TNG episode, it also has a tidy ending
with no read the customs, whatever.
That's right.
It's almost like the textbook TNG.
Was it was it the self-sacrifice, the fact that one of them stayed
behind to save the other 2 that made it clear.
Because remember, they're responsible for the entire plan at this
point.
They change the plan, they make their own things, they transport
to a different place.
You know, like it's all down to them.
And then because one of them sacrifices himself to save the other
two, that means that they're definitely people.
That's how you know.
Um, you know, like there's survival instincts, but animals have
those and animals are important.
You can't just treat animals however you want.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, although we do.
Yeah, I don't know.
And do we not seen another X-Comp now until that finale episode of
Lower Decks?
I know I know what you're going to say, but it does feel like a
waste.
Yeah, but you know, I feel like we've sort of gone through the
motions for a reason.
Yeah, we were never going to see them again.
I think it would have been odd to be, you know, just because of
what this show is, you know, later on, uh, Star Trek will be
trying to create a coherent story set in a particular place, but
this is still, you know, I know it's, it's what, the ninth season
of Star Trek, but uh, it's still early days by sort of overall
standards for Star Trek, I think.
Next week will be, you know, uh, going undercover to see if the
Cardassians are developing a mutagenic weapon.
Um, and, and, oh, they go down, there's a wonderful shot from
Stockcave Set number 52 where they scale that, that huge, that
huge cliff face.
Yeah, I don't know how to summarise this, because I acknowledge
absolutely everything that you're saying, and I do think this is a
good episode of Star Trek.
I just don't think I like Star Trek very much.
I think it's absolutely fair to say that it's talky and worthy and
that it's not that visually interesting beyond just the interest
that there is in those sets, which, you know, like a variable
quality, but certainly bigger and more interesting than the sets
in Voyager last week, for instance, I think I think I can make a
comparison, you know, because do you remember when you and I did
profit motive?
And and you enjoyed it, but, you know, you could absolutely see it
was a bit of a nothing episode.
And I said to you, yeah, but I don't care because this is my 1st
love, and these are my characters, and this is my station, and I
just love hanging with these people, and I'll give it a free pass
for that.
Well, this does have things to say, but it is your 1st love.
The characters you love in a very relaxed situation, doing what
they do best, talking about the sort of stuff that interests you.
So I absolutely see why you really adored this.
And I think I think too, like we talk dismissively about Next
Generation as, you know, a thing where the characters are
basically their jobs.
But that show, the thing which we, which I sometimes call, you
know, competent people solving space problems or likeable
competent people solving space problems.
I like that show, you know?
And I like it when Discovery does that.
I like it when other versions of Star Trek do that.
I'm glad that Star Trek is now capable of doing more things than
just that, but I'm glad that it does do that.
And I think this did that quite well.
Let's be honest. 15000000 other people thought that as well on a
regular basis at this point.
So who cares what I think?
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
work out where we're going next.
This was your excellent choice, and I am going to try and make
another excellent choice.
It's been some time since we've been here, but we are going either
backwards or forwards in time to visit the crew of the USS
Discovery.
Oh, it has been some time.
It has been wild.
Yeah, I nearly did Discovery the other week, but then, oh, no, I
put all the Christmas in, didn't I?
And obviously lower desk came up and we couldn't say no to that.
No, exactly.
All right.
So I'm going to press the button.
It's always a little bit tricky because I'm not as familiar with
the names of these, but we'll see how we go.
Okay, so this is season four, episode one.
Kobayashi Maru.
Season four, episode one. we done that one?
No, we haven't.
One of the things about it is that, in a way, this is a series 2
episode one for Discovery, because of course, series 3 is the
series where we go to the future.
And we did, I think, do the 1st episode of series three.
So this is the 1st episode of series four.
So jam a summary, and he gives this one BEM, so 2.5 stars.
So it's as good as BEM.
So that's promising.
With work underway to reestablish and expand the federation, the
discovery must undertake a dangerous rescue operation to save the
crew of a space station threatened with destruction.
Now, I don't actually normally like just, you know, going with the
1st one because it's kind of fun to roll around and talk about
things, but I really, really love series 2, episode one of
anything and just seeing what they do here because I think series
4 of Discovery might be my favourite series of the whole run.
I like one a lot.
I think 2 is maybe the weakest.
I think 3 is super interesting because we've got the new premise.
And then I think 4 tries to tell a really, really interesting
science fiction story.
I think it gets the serialisation, absolutely right.
And, you know, like I think it's really solid.
And then 5 is a kind of fun coder, which is a little bit light and
maybe something that we needed to do before the show ended.
But I am kind of keen to do something that sets up series 4 and
kind of sends the show off in a what ends up being a pretty good
new direction.
I'd be quite interested to see how this all kicks off because you
and I have already covered, but to connect and all in, which is 2
episodes back to back right in the middle of the season, sort of
the cliffhanger in the middle of the season and then where it
picks up.
And But to Connect was a really good character drama.
I was slightly less impressed by all in.
But it did some interesting things with Michael and book.
Yeah.
Yeah, let's do it.
Let's do it.
I mean, with discovery, I don't really know until we watch the
episode.
I know so little about this show.
And wherever you stick the pin in, it could be a completely
different show if I'm honest.
Yeah, whatever season you choose.
Kubahashi Maru.
Why is that?
I know that.
Oh, is that the Captain Kirk's?
No win scenario.
Yeah.
Okay.
Wow, series 4. let's kick it off Let's do it.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 24th of September 2024 and
released on the 4th of October.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Discovery for Bayashima Ru.
Yeah, I don't have a clue what to do.
Yeah, I can't even remember it.
I wonder if it ends with the anomaly.
Do you know what I mean?
Does it end with the anomaly, the DMA attacking something?
I can't remember, just let me see what German says.
Yeah, I think it's where all the characters are.
I think it's... with Quation being destroyed.
You are right.
It is a series to episode one in series four.
Yeah.
Which is just strange, but, uh, proof of just how mutatable that
show was.
Yeah.
Because it does, because it's a mess because it's their 1st go and
they fuck it up in all sorts of ways, except they don't.
I think series 2 fucks about.
It's all sorts of ways that are great to talk about, Mike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know.
And his successes as well.
It absolutely has its successes, but yeah, it is.
I just love those characters.
It's a slightly confused show, isn't it?
Yeah.
I think, like, I think because series 2, I, because I loved series
one so much, and the things that it did were so different, so new
it came back and did something completely new and different.
And then all of the objections to the things new and different
that it did.
And then its response, which was to say, oh yeah, sorry, we
shouldn't have done that.
And then, and then you'll have the most Star Treky Star Trek
you've ever seen. you know, pike spot. that's right.
But then, you know, the bring it forward into the future just
makes it visually so interesting.
Like it opens up a whole new space. where Starfleet Academy's
going to be.
So that's a whole, you know, it's not the 24th century anymore.
It's like the 31st or 2nd or whatever.
But I don't think like you can only point that at discovery.
Oh, I mean, DS9 ends where it starts at all.
Like, the 1st 2 series, like, the 1st series of DS9 is so
different from like 6 and seven.
Yeah, but it re, it re, you know, it reboots at four.
It reboots at three.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it adds new things that kind of decides.
It's surprising though, isn't it?
TNG and Voyager, less so Enterprise, are the same for 7 seasons
you know, it's unusual for a show not, sir.
But I, but, you know, it, um, it, like, Star Trek the next
generation falters out of the gate.
It's crap, you know, like it's not good.
And it wouldn't have lasted unless they'd kind of gone.
We have to fix this.
Well, they got better at making it, but it's still like the ship
you know, the ship going from place to place.
But they probably make it a different thing.
Like focussing on the characters in a way, you know, not as much
as DS9 does, but there's no sign of sort of juggling empires in
series one of DS9, is there?
It's all a dreadful TNG knockoffs.
Which we will have to cover at some point.
Yeah, mostly bad, but, you know, move along home.
It's so great though.
A la Marine.
I'm a Marine.
Then free more.
Where's my fucking agent?