WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:49:59

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, last week we did an excellent episode of Lower Decks, and I

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decided it was time to sort of balance things up a bit with an

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episode of Voyager.

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This is Voyager season two, episode 18, Death Wish.

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And I'm happy to report that I thought this was pretty mediocre.

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I'm sure that you agree with me.

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I don't agree with you at all, actually.

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I think this is one of my favourite Star Trek Voyager episodes and

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watching it this time, aside from one scene, which I object too

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strongly, I still think this is one of my favourite Star Trek

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Voyager episodes.

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It's very Voyager, I think, and maybe that's the problem with it.

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It's an important issue that we have a dumb take on that we want

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to litigate, and so we do a courtroom drama, and I'm torn because

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I love a courtroom drama, and after all, devil's due is a

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courtroom drama.

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And so is uh, what's the, what's the season 21 with data called?

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Oh, Measure of a Man.

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Measuring a man. fantastic court.

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Drumhead is a great corner of drama.

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So it's something that Star Trek can do very well.

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It's a pity where it shoved in this tiny, tiny, tiny, unimpressive

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set, you know, just a normal standing set, and there is a lot of

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standing around talking, which is inevitable in a courtroom

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drama.

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They spent all the money on that desert and the Christmas tree.

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That's why.

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Which is terrible.

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That's wonderful. is wrong with you?

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So boring.

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But I do think there are some moments where inevitably Kate is

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unbelievably great.

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And there are some good bits, I think, you know, some interesting

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things, like interesting choices they make about Q, which I think

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is pretty good if you're going to bring Q back.

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Let's do something completely different with him.

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I thought the guest star...

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This whole lipstick that they put on him in this episode is very

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distracting.

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Yeah.

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So that's the lipstick that he does wear in encounter at

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Firepoint.

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Yeah, so I'm not quite sure what's going on there.

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But also I want to say, shout out to, um, is it Gerrett Graham?

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Garrett Graham?

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I have to say his name.

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It is superb.

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He's really good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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He's very funny doing his sort of Samantha like bewitched hand

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movements every time he does.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He does his own crappy version of the hand movement which is

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pretty good.

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He is in a deep space 9 episode.

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Are you aware of this?

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I am not. which one Captive pursuit?

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Who does he play in captive pursuit?

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He's the main hunter, I think, in captive pursuit.

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Wow, that is such a different turn.

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Well, he's had a load of latex as well.

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And a load of makeup, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Gosh.

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But I really think he delivers such a moving performance at the

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end of this.

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Yeah he's really good.

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I was sort of genuinely touched at this omnipotent being

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committing suicide at the end of the episode.

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I think I think it heads to the right conclusion and it could so

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easily have not done that.

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Yeah.

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I mean, there are a few things here that I think date it

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terribly.

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And I think that the constant talk of suicide in an episode like

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this, which I just don't think we would do now.

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I think that we're much more circumspect when it comes to talking

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about suicide and stuff and rightly so.

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But this is a little bit more of a sort of assisted dying thing.

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And that's kind of like an issue that's been resolved as well.

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I think at least in Australia in most jurisdictions, if not all.

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They're talking about it right now in this country.

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Yeah, well, Brexit.

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We're lingering on wilder, you know?

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That's right So it's still a thing.

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I guess it is still a thing.

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Everything's set up a little bit too pat and I just, I don't

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know.

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I don't know.

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I would rather watch a Voyager episode, though, that is attempting

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to tackle a weighty issue.

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Sensitively, than, I don't know, your romance of the week or

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anomaly of the week or any of that usual bullshit they do.

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They're trying to say something.

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Maybe they don't quite get there, but I think in the journey of

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that, through the dialogue, they do have things to say.

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And I think it does genuinely have something to say about the Q

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continuum and that running storyline as well.

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And I love that.

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More importantly of all, is there something about our queue that

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we've been following since Encounter of Farpoint?

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which I thought was really moving as well.

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I did think that was great, and it played to sort of John

106
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DeLancey's strengths as well.

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I guess it's just a little bit too pass, in a way, it's a little

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bit too easy to set up a courtroom drama, so that you have someone

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whose job it is to argue both sides and stuff like that, just a

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little bit kind of easy.

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And it's not a very good courtroom drama, I think.

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But why, yeah, I don't really think it's trying to be your

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standard courtroom drama.

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Not when you can beam in people from all of time and space.

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I mean, that's very funny.

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I did think this had some genuinely laugh out loud moments in it

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as well.

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I did love Q beaming onto the ship and going, have you got rid of

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your menfo altogether?

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Is this a ship of the Valkyries when all the women are left?

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Yeah, there are some funny lines and it's doing some sort of

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quirky things towards the start as well.

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And we'll talk about the desert scene when we get there because I

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really, it's not visually interesting.

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I don't think it's trying to be visually interesting.

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I think that's rather the point.

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I just think it is trying, and I don't mean that in a negative way

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in a way that the boyish very often doesn't even bother, you

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know.

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And like you said, force Kate Mulgrew into this unfortunate

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dilemma that she's in between, you know, sending him to prison or

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allowing him to kill himself.

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It's a bit of a weird situation to be in, but she plays it so

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well.

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So, and there's, my favourite scene in this whole episode is, it's

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nothing to do with the courtroom drama at all.

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It's the bit where Q reveals the earth.

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And for a 2nd, for just a 2nd, the look on her face is like, I

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will do anything to see that.

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So good.

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You know, it's so awesome.

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Just it catches her breath.

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It's wonderful.

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She's so good.

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She's so good.

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The other thing, the other thing that I think dates it that I just

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hate.

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I absolutely hate is the constant sexism from our future.

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That's my one scene I really hate.

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It's awful.

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I don't understand the point of it.

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It doesn't impact on the episode.

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It doesn't reach any kind of serious resolution.

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It's dumb.

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It's what we go on to do in the queue and the gray, which is the

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next one because there's a huge civil war between the cues on the

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back of the decision that Jane Way makes here.

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And that thrusts her into this weird role of a civil war heroine

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that cues got it inside and it's just bullshit.

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It's just the worst thing that ever happened with the cue.

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But given Q came into DS9, and it was such a terrible fear, like

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it just didn't work at all with what they were trying to do on DS9

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at that point where they were trying to do sort of sub TNG

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knockoffs and seeing if they were.

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Surprise, they didn't.

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Voyager is a sub TNG knockoff as a whole.

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So, of course, comes onto this.

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And actually, it's having a bit of fun for once as well, which is

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not a very fun show.

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And so I think it sort of delivers, it delivers some laughs.

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It delivers some thoughtful moments and it gives some acting

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opportunities.

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I think it's a good all round up.

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No, I think that's fair.

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I think that's fair.

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For me, it's just a little bit talky.

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You've referred to this a few times, but when we do the call on

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Zoom, I always try and get a screen grab as the background and

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there's no shot that just isn't full of people talking.

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Like it's that just terrible 90s thing where every spare moment

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has to be filled where they're sort of just talking and talking

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and talking.

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And so I've just got the stupid comet over my left shoulder here.

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Do you know what?

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I was listening to Horror of Horrors, another Star Trek podcast

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the other day.

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I know who knew there was any more out there, apart from this live

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effort.

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And it was Scott McNulty's Random Trek, which you and I both

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love.

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We're still waiting for the event.

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Scott, all right?

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We're still waiting.

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How many of these bloody things do we have to do before we get

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your attention?

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And he had someone on to a DS9 episode. one that you and I have

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done, the House of Quark, and the Fella had never watched DS9

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before, right?

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And sort of knew TNG, but he wasn't a Star Trek fan.

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So he was kind of new to the franchise.

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And he could not believe how he goes, this, this is done in the

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90s.

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He goes, and it's filmed and paced more like 60s television, like

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the original Star Trek.

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Bad TV now.

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He goes, this is the midway point.

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So I should be seeing some progress from 60s to 90s to now.

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And he goes, this is more like 70s TV being made in the 90s.

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And I think there is something to that.

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But we like the talk, right?

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Like, we love 90s trade.

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We do like the talk.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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We like 90s track.

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We do like 90s track.

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But these kind of players to 90s.

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Witnesses.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Wow.

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You know what?

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I mean, the 1st half it doesn't hang around for long.

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They're zipping about all over the place.

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The 2nd half we're going into an asteroid and a desert and all

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sorts of places, like I finished plenty to talk about here.

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Yeah, I think there is too.

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And some great acting.

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I'm looking forward to it we talk about it?

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Yeah.

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All right.

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I'll count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Okay, establishing shots, a meteor travelling through space.

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Yeah, it's so boring, isn't it?

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It's just the most mid voyager of opening.

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Oh, it's not really a comet.

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You're killing me.

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Unusually, they don't put Q in the tile as well.

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Was the Q reveal supposed to be a genuine surprise?

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Oh, I don't know, actually.

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And they might have decided just to not go with that.

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So all of the queue episodes apart from encounter at FarPoint

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which we used to like to call, encounter at FarPoint.

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To have a street, that's true.

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But then the other Voyager ones are the queue and the gray and

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Q2.

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So they're making a statement three.

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Voyager?

249
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Yeah, but they need the ratings by that point.

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At this point, they still think this might be a success.

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The fools.

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Oh, yeah.

253
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So this is such a shitty teaser as well.

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It's just like, and it's a guy.

255
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.080
Oh, my goodness, you know.

256
00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:10.320
Although, I suppose the fact that he's at a star for uniform is

257
00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:11.519
supposed to raise an eyebrow.

258
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:12.419
Like, who's this?

259
00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:17.519
Well, it works, but only if you've watched Star Trek the Next

260
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:23.100
Generation because the surprise is that that guy is Q. Suppose you

261
00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:24.120
came in with Voyager.

262
00:12:24.179 --> 00:12:25.679
You'd be going, well, what the hell's Q?

263
00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:26.399
What's that?

264
00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:27.240
What's a cue?

265
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.139
What do we care?

266
00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:34.799
And so this story was actually pitched by Sean Pillar, Michael

267
00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:36.539
Pillar's son.

268
00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:42.179
So he gets a story credit. have an obsession with suicide for some

269
00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:42.419
reason?

270
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:44.159
No.

271
00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:50.399
But I think his idea included the idea of getting to our queue by

272
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.360
having another queue appear on Voyager because it's kind of like

273
00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.299
and they're saying, and this is such a dumb thing to say because

274
00:12:57.299 --> 00:13:02.940
they don't really understand quite the relationship between TV and

275
00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:07.320
reality, but they say, are we really going to have Q?

276
00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:11.519
Just, he only appears on ships that have their own series.

277
00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:15.120
So he appears on...

278
00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:17.039
Yes, that's right.

279
00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:20.639
Because the only ships that we see are the ones that have their

280
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:21.179
own series.

281
00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:24.840
I saw some wonderful queue episodes in my imagination in that

282
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:25.440
other show.

283
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:26.879
That's it.

284
00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:28.799
Jesus, they cannot be that.

285
00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:31.559
Backwards of television.

286
00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:35.580
But I think what they meant to say is why is Q here?

287
00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:38.820
Like, why is Q always on the Star Trek shows?

288
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:43.679
And so coming at it more indirectly and just having a Q, and then

289
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.139
our Q sort of comes along as a result.

290
00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:51.779
Um, and the one innovation that this show has is it does give the

291
00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:53.039
cure shape.

292
00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:54.179
It does.

293
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.899
But also as well, like the only other time we've seen another

294
00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:01.320
queue was that fellow that came in at the end of the one we just

295
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:01.500
did.

296
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:03.659
The very sitcom performance.

297
00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:06.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. full of sort of strange body language.

298
00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:11.820
But it does say a lot about RQ when you put him up against another

299
00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:12.419
character.

300
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:16.559
And the fact that they make this queue a revolutionary because he

301
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:21.000
wants to do something out of the norm and how that then mirrors

302
00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.899
how our queue used to be before we reformed and became a good

303
00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:25.740
member of the queue.

304
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.080
It really is saying something about his character.

305
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.320
And it ignites a spark in him.

306
00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:34.620
There's like, God, yeah, he did used to be like that, you know?

307
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.019
that's why he makes a choice as he does at the end of the

308
00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:37.259
episode.

309
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.559
And like, I don't think it actually works, given in the sense that

310
00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:48.299
that's not what we saw on Star Trek, the Next Generation, but I

311
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:53.279
actually don't care, what it does is it takes the episode Deja Q

312
00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:57.899
And I was wondering how, as I was watching this, how strongly they

313
00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:00.960
would reference it, and they properly reference it, don't they?

314
00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:02.460
They'd prefer to it.

315
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.039
They make it pivotal.

316
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:05.820
Did you hear that?

317
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:07.980
The rabbit thing is a rabbit.

318
00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:09.360
Anyway. so bad.

319
00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:12.840
I mean, so... on a separate Star Trek podcast.

320
00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:13.980
I know there's 2 more.

321
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.240
There was a top five.

322
00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:21.240
No, top 5 best Voyager underappreciated things.

323
00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:23.460
And someone said the humour.

324
00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:25.559
And they all according.

325
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:27.779
I was like, no, I'm out of this podcast now.

326
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:29.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

327
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:31.980
You guys need to go and watch something that's actually funny.

328
00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.320
Now he's being a creep.

329
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.299
No, no, but the way he delivers that line.

330
00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:37.320
It's not big creepy.

331
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.600
It sort of like wonder. it's envious.

332
00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:42.960
He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. only live for 9 years.

333
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.419
It's a really great delivery.

334
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.000
Yeah.

335
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:52.019
Jane Williams literally got such a stick up her butt in this

336
00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:53.100
episode, doesn't she?

337
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.799
It's your favourite hairdo as well.

338
00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.919
Yeah, I love this hairdo.

339
00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:01.500
It is my favourite hairdo because we're back in season two.

340
00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.139
It's season two, episode 18 Death Wish.

341
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:05.039
Did we even say that?

342
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.500
I'm not sure we even said it anyway.

343
00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:09.360
We're slumming it now on this podcast.

344
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.480
No, I drop listening to other ones.

345
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.320
Poor Ethan FedEx.

346
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:19.559
I had to get up in that ghastly makeup for that one joke.

347
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:20.279
That's it.

348
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:21.899
Yeah, it's so bad.

349
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:23.039
That's a living.

350
00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:25.200
So he was doing his last words, isn't he?

351
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:30.720
Because this is setting up his line for the end, though, isn't

352
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:30.960
it?

353
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.759
When he genuinely does kill himself.

354
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:33.659
Yeah.

355
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.059
And he says something reasonably similar.

356
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.440
He says I die not for myself, but for you, here is his last word.

357
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.480
Enigmatic, whatever. provocative.

358
00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:43.259
They love the stand.

359
00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.799
But then we do hear his last words, and they are very good, and

360
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:48.299
they are along those lines, I think.

361
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:53.399
I just love his bewitched town movements every time.

362
00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:55.200
So funny.

363
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.799
And why him trying to kill himself would get rid of all the men on

364
00:16:58.799 --> 00:16:59.220
the ship.

365
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.179
I do not know.

366
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.480
But boy, come on, Nathan, it would be a better show.

367
00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:06.059
We get rid of the 2 worst Roberts.

368
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.259
Harry Kim.

369
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:08.460
Come on.

370
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:09.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

371
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.799
Sorry, you quite like him.

372
00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:12.539
Well, I quite like it.

373
00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:14.819
For whipping left with, you know, 7 could still come along.

374
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.160
Janeway, Bilana, Ez.

375
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:25.380
So it's kind of funny too that, like, he's not quite as easy with

376
00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:28.380
the comedy as Delancey.

377
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.059
I mean, John Delancey's really funny, isn't he?

378
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.059
Because he's very odd in Encounter at Farpoint.

379
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:33.720
Don't you think?

380
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:35.039
He's really st and weird.

381
00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:37.140
Everybody is at that point.

382
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.200
No, I'm entirely sure what they're doing is what they're doing.

383
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.900
He's more comfortable in Height and Q, even though it's a dismal

384
00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:43.259
episode.

385
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:44.460
He's more comfortable.

386
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:45.059
Yeah, yeah.

387
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:45.779
Yeah.

388
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.039
Yeah, he's not as funny, but then who is as funny as John

389
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:50.819
Delalse?

390
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.559
No, but he is camp and he is overplaying it in a sort of really

391
00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:56.160
cute way.

392
00:17:56.339 --> 00:17:59.940
Can I just, can I just very much point out the direction there?

393
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.579
It's that thing they do in 90s trek all the time where someone

394
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:06.779
moves to the side and they leave a huge space for somebody to

395
00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:07.500
materialise.

396
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.339
But they always leave it about 10 seconds and you're like, why is

397
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.240
there so much space?

398
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:13.859
Oh, someone's coming.

399
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.539
There he is, yeah.

400
00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:18.059
They do it with sort of beaming, they do it with queues

401
00:18:18.059 --> 00:18:18.720
appearing.

402
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:19.619
It happens a lot.

403
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.740
I did love Bilana's line, where she just comes over the intercom

404
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:28.380
and goes, oh, the men have gone.

405
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.420
She's absolutely appalled.

406
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:37.500
I would have liked to have seen Q wearing the...

407
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.579
Oh, here we go.

408
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:43.079
Wearing the the next generation outfit, don't you think?

409
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:45.299
Well, in this, that red outfit.

410
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:47.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

411
00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:50.460
I suppose because it is a trial. this isn't his shit.

412
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.480
Do you know what I mean?

413
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:53.039
Like, this isn't his ship.

414
00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:55.740
No, not the red outfit from Encounter at Farpoint.

415
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.640
The Star Trek, the Next Generation captain's uniform.

416
00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.859
Oh, I see what you're saying.

417
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.000
Yeah.

418
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.079
Yeah.

419
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.480
Yeah, because he's from the other show, you know.

420
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:07.799
Oh, I love it.

421
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:09.779
He's just insulting everybody on the bridge.

422
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.119
But that's not funny either.

423
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:13.380
How very wilderness of you.

424
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:14.099
Who says that?

425
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.180
That's not a funny line.

426
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:16.200
What's going on?

427
00:19:16.259 --> 00:19:19.259
I think it's sort of in line with the casual racism with all the

428
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.640
Chikotay's ancestry anyway.

429
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:24.660
It's not eaten any books lately or anything like that, which even

430
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:26.759
that's a bit mean.

431
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.680
The boy that cried wolf.

432
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:30.299
I know you haven't.

433
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:31.619
So terrible.

434
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.000
So terrible.

435
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:37.019
I love this, so the cat mouse game, the poor Voyager ship ends up

436
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:39.960
in subatomic particles hanging from a Christmas tree.

437
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:41.700
Oh, it's fun.

438
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:42.839
Yes, it is fun.

439
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:43.500
Yeah, I guess.

440
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:45.900
So we're going to the Big Bang.

441
00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.779
Let yourself enjoy it, Nathan.

442
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.759
Yeah, it's all right.

443
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:51.960
You have a much better time.

444
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.680
We're just sort of standing around and talking and then looking at

445
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:56.640
the thing on the screen.

446
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.559
It's like, oh, weird thing on screen.

447
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.779
And now back to just us juttering.

448
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:02.279
Do you know what I mean?

449
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.779
And describing what's happening.

450
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.539
Like a shot from outside would be nice.

451
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.720
I would, you know, like appreciate that.

452
00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:12.660
I still don't think it's fair to make comparisons with TV mate

453
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:13.140
today.

454
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.900
When technology has come on in leaps and bounds and you can do

455
00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:19.920
things so cheap, you know, I think the efforts that they go to in

456
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:25.740
this as a whole episode, location work, and we pop into that.

457
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.900
They make that tiny little asteroid cell.

458
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:31.380
That very cheap little asteroids.

459
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.380
They even laid that beautiful meal out in the mess hole for

460
00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:35.279
Janeway to have.

461
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.940
But don't you think it would have looked impressive from the

462
00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:39.359
outside?

463
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.220
Like it could have looked scarier.

464
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.359
It could have looked weirder.

465
00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:46.140
If you think about something like where no one has gone before

466
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:47.759
from Star Trek, the Next Generation.

467
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:50.819
I don't know, you got those little sperms coming towards the view

468
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:51.180
screen.

469
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.339
So I think they're great.

470
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:57.539
You know, we're being attacked by protons and I would have loved

471
00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.480
to have seen the fat. the ship.

472
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:01.859
Compare to them.

473
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:02.880
Yeah, of course you do.

474
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:06.059
There you go again, look, that space was left in the middle of

475
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:06.660
that show.

476
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.380
Watch how many times it happens.

477
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.339
You just know where he's going to come in nowadays, they would

478
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:17.039
move the fucking camera and let him move it and beat him.

479
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:18.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

480
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:19.980
Oh, dear. really funny.

481
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.319
Oh, I did love this with a Christmas tree.

482
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:24.059
Computer, I need a wider angle.

483
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:28.920
So I, this is very odd.

484
00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:31.440
Look, because we can't get we can't properly see it.

485
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:32.579
We've never seen it.

486
00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:34.980
I mean, I'm sure they could have done an establishing shot of a

487
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:35.640
Christmas tree.

488
00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:36.839
That wouldn't have cost too much.

489
00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:39.119
You know, Rick Berman, get your tree out of the attic.

490
00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:40.140
We need it for a scene.

491
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:41.940
It's very odd.

492
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.880
Well, and clearly John Delancey is in a room with a Christmas

493
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:45.299
tree.

494
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.099
Why they couldn't have done that.

495
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:47.640
Yeah, exactly.

496
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:48.599
Do a shot of it.

497
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:49.500
They have a camera there.

498
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:51.900
Oh, listen to this.

499
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:57.299
The Vonted Q, so fun Knighted. the end of the universe.

500
00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:00.119
She's great Yeah.

501
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.140
So here he is.

502
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:05.640
I'm not sure who would sort of poison fruit more with a look, Cisco

503
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:07.859
or Janeway, but they've both got it, you know.

504
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.720
Yeah, yeah.

505
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:10.440
Yeah.

506
00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:13.920
So the episode with, what's that called?

507
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:15.240
Q less, isn't it?

508
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:17.940
when they're boxing in course, yeah.

509
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.380
Oh, yeah, yeah.

510
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:20.519
Pretty terrible.

511
00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:22.019
Probably, Picard never hit me.

512
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:23.759
Oh, Bashir.

513
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.039
But he's littering all over Vash.

514
00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:26.819
Oh, it's horrible.

515
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:31.140
But this, like when he's asking her, calling her deer and stuff

516
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:32.880
like that, touching her hand and things.

517
00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:34.200
It's so bad.

518
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.759
It's not that bad. the scene where he turns up in the bath.

519
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:40.740
That's just terrible.

520
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:41.460
Or is it a bed?

521
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:42.359
It's in the bathroom.

522
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:42.960
No, in bed.

523
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.940
Oh, it's in the bath in queue in the gray.

524
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:45.900
That's when it, yeah.

525
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:46.380
Okay.

526
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:50.940
Because I think we like it in the little gay panic moment in

527
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:54.420
tapestry where, you know, he wakes up.

528
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:56.099
Morning, darling.

529
00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:01.440
But, but that's an established relationship.

530
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.299
They've known each other at that point.

531
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.279
You know, episode after episode after episode and it's not the, you

532
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:10.440
know, like it's not a man creeping on a woman.

533
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.380
So it's not quite as awful.

534
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:17.759
And it is just like, why are we constantly talking as if we're

535
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:19.380
surprised that the captain's a woman.

536
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:20.759
Like, this is...

537
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.400
Now, I guess we find out... the punt's really fair.

538
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:27.960
He says that could be one of the execs, you know, watching her in

539
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.579
series one whilst they were filming.

540
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:30.240
That's right.

541
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:32.400
And I'm embarrassed for Kate.

542
00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:34.440
Like, Kate does that reaction.

543
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:37.140
It's just like, oh, fuck am I putting up with this?

544
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:37.920
Do you know what I mean?

545
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:39.180
Like he's looked at her arse.

546
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:44.700
And then she does that throw to the, the, you know, commercial

547
00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:46.680
break and I'm embarrassed for her.

548
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:51.599
The reason I think they kind of get away with the relationship is

549
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:55.680
because John DeLancey and Kmart grew just adored working together

550
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.200
and you can see the chemistry between them, you know?

551
00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:02.279
I think she's the reason he kept coming back because she loved

552
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:03.240
working with him a lot.

553
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:07.259
Oh, I really, I love this relationship between Tuvok.

554
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:08.519
Me too. the other cue.

555
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.839
Yeah, yeah.

556
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:15.839
Yeah, so, so again, we giving Tuvok a role, which makes a change.

557
00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:18.660
Early on, they did remember to do that, yes.

558
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.460
And he's good?

559
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:22.259
Like he's really good in this.

560
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.720
The best bit, don't you think?

561
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.279
The best bit is when he goes to him.

562
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.740
Oh yeah, I'm doing this for you, but I don't agree with what you

563
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:29.160
want to do.

564
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:33.119
And the Q, who knows everything, goes, wow, you've surprised me.

565
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:35.460
You have no idea what a gift that is for me.

566
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:36.779
It's a rare thing.

567
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:37.200
Thank you.

568
00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:38.819
Yeah, it's pretty good, isn't it?

569
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:43.799
Even the fact that they're talking about the way the queue just

570
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:48.059
barge in, you know, they've, they don't care about you and it, and

571
00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:51.480
it, he kind of says, is that something that you've always done or

572
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.700
is it what happens when you become omnipotent?

573
00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:57.839
And that's kind of interesting because this episode does establish

574
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.180
that the cube became omnipotent.

575
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:03.720
Because they develop technology or something.

576
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:04.740
Do you know what I mean?

577
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:11.220
Like, he compares the ship, uh, to whatever it is the queue can

578
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:11.519
do.

579
00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:14.160
And so they've just sort of surpassed them in technology.

580
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:18.539
So the Q aren't gods, they're people who've acquired this power

581
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.539
and they have immortality as a result.

582
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:25.019
And I think that's, like, that gives them a shape, that gives them

583
00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:28.559
a history, and then the episode gives them a history, doesn't it?

584
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:32.279
By making him a philosopher who's challenged things.

585
00:25:32.339 --> 00:25:36.119
Um, and having him have opinions about our cue.

586
00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:37.740
Like all of that stuff, I think, is really good.

587
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:42.539
What I appreciate about the desert landscape, apart from the fact

588
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:46.980
that they are outside, which is always refreshing on Voyager, is

589
00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:50.759
they do really try to stress that actually it's a bit of a curse

590
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:55.019
being able to do whatever you want, and it's really fucking boring

591
00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:58.500
you know, once you've been the scarecrow and read the paper and

592
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:00.599
all of that, you know, it's very literal.

593
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:03.960
But on Star Trek, usually they just tell us the metaphor.

594
00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:04.980
They don't show us.

595
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:05.940
It's quite nice.

596
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.619
I don't think they're successful with it.

597
00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:12.119
And we'll get there when we get there.

598
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:16.079
But basically, my contention is you only live one moment at a time

599
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.200
like all the other moments recede into the past.

600
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:21.660
And so being immortal.

601
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:24.960
I'm not sure why that's bad.

602
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:30.359
Because like, you're never present when you're not there.

603
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:31.859
Do you know what I mean?

604
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.500
Your entire experience is you're there.

605
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:39.119
Like, you know, I can imagine getting bored, like, you're old and

606
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:44.279
sick and you have no friends left and like, and that would be why

607
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.039
you might be tired of life.

608
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.740
But like, why would you get tired of life?

609
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:50.339
otherwise?

610
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:51.599
I just don't get it.

611
00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:54.480
You know, and there's a great speech at the end here, which I

612
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:58.380
think is really beautiful, but I just don't buy automatically that

613
00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:59.819
immortality is a curse.

614
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.180
I think mortality is a curse and death is a curse.

615
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:08.759
I don't think immortality is, and I don't buy that, uh, it's death

616
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:12.539
that gives us purpose or, that is such a shitty.

617
00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:14.160
It's so bad.

618
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.880
This, this, this, 1st all, it's certainly not the 1st and it won't

619
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:21.000
be the last time I'll disagree with you, but I'm 44 years in and

620
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:21.660
I'm already.

621
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:23.279
I've had enough.

622
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:25.680
The only thing that gets me through is doing this with you

623
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:26.099
frankly.

624
00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:28.980
We don't have to stop doing this.

625
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.420
We haven't stopped.

626
00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.160
Stop, stop, stop.

627
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.640
Stop, stop, stop.

628
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.759
Oh, yeah, yeah.

629
00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:39.960
Yeah, it is terrible.

630
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:43.859
But this is not, see, I like this and I like it when the other

631
00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:46.920
rando people come into the court case.

632
00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:50.579
It just makes it a bit more interesting than just being in this

633
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:50.759
room.

634
00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:54.960
So yeah, but it is a terrible set, isn't it?

635
00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:55.920
It's a really bad room.

636
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:59.940
It's typical... sort of gun metal gray, isn't it?

637
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.480
Well, no, it's sort of green and brown and stuff.

638
00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:07.200
It looks like he's got jaundice with that lipstick on, doesn't

639
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:07.380
he?

640
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.579
It is a thing that he does have, though, in Encounter at Far

641
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:11.880
Point.

642
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:14.819
I don't know why they've decided to give it to him here, but, you

643
00:28:14.819 --> 00:28:16.019
know, he's odd.

644
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:22.019
Oh, now that's on the nose when he says it suicide is the actions

645
00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:23.819
for a mentally unbalanced person.

646
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.339
That line just would not exist now. you're right.

647
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.660
No, no.

648
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.599
And so here's the problem too.

649
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:39.299
I don't understand why this asylum thing is about his desire to

650
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:45.119
kill himself because once we decide that he's being oppressed and

651
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.619
imprisoned and prevented from, You know, like he's being

652
00:28:49.619 --> 00:28:52.200
imprisoned, he can't do anything.

653
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:56.099
He's not free to act, and he asks for asylum.

654
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.880
Why are they asking what he's going to do with the asylum?

655
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.220
Do you know what I mean?

656
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.180
It's none of their business.

657
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.660
And like I just don't understand why that even comes into

658
00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:07.799
consideration here.

659
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:13.980
But the suicidal act is less, it is less about him being bored

660
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:16.319
isn't it, and more about shaking up the continuum?

661
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:18.599
That's the reason he wants to do it.

662
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:20.640
It's like a revolutionary act.

663
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:22.200
That's right.

664
00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:25.079
And so it's the state making him live.

665
00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:26.460
Do you know what I mean?

666
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.319
And it's put in those terms, isn't it?

667
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:34.019
And he, so he wants asylum because he's oppressed politically, and

668
00:29:34.019 --> 00:29:35.519
that's really the only question.

669
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:39.420
Like, I don't know why why she has to have an opinion about what

670
00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:40.019
he does next.

671
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:43.319
Well, and how any of this will be relevant to what a human being

672
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:47.099
rules that one of the queue continuum can have asylum.

673
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.500
Like, why would they take that seriously anyway?

674
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:50.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

675
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:51.059
Yeah.

676
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:51.720
Yes.

677
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.960
And what's the capital punishment thing?

678
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.920
How do we know that the Q, um, do capital punishment?

679
00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:00.059
Has that been established?

680
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.500
Don't think so.

681
00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:05.220
Oh, I don't I don't think so.

682
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.099
I don't know, because we haven't seen enough Q, have we?

683
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.920
Oh, here we go.

684
00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:13.799
This is where they're talking about Q being disciplined in the

685
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:15.180
past for an appropriate behaviour.

686
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.960
Social anarchy versus order, he says.

687
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.259
Yeah, yeah.

688
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.619
So that's not explicit.

689
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.680
And when you watch it, you think, oh, maybe we're talking about

690
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:36.299
Deja Q. Um, and it, and we don't see a queue who is reined back

691
00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:36.539
in.

692
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:37.980
In fact, it's very unclear.

693
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.140
Like, I don't think the cue are very well defined at all.

694
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:40.980
Do you know what I mean?

695
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.339
Why are they putting us on trial in episode one and in the final

696
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:45.180
episode at all?

697
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.200
I don't know.

698
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:47.339
Do you know what I mean?

699
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:48.359
He's cue acting on his own.

700
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:49.500
He seems to be in trouble.

701
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:49.859
Why?

702
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.400
He's trying to say something about us, but missing the mark, but

703
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:53.940
I'm mild.

704
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:59.700
Well, yeah, I mean, it's the trial in Encounter at Farpoint is

705
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:04.859
mirroring the kind of experience of watching it, which is, is this

706
00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:06.420
show going to be any good?

707
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.619
Do you know what I mean?

708
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.160
Is this version of humanity, something that we want to spend time

709
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.039
watching a TV show about?

710
00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:15.059
Do you know what I mean?

711
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.259
Like, that's what's happening.

712
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:16.980
Oh, here we go.

713
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:18.660
So this is weird.

714
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:20.819
It's so weird.

715
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.119
Hey, weren't you the guy with the truck?

716
00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:27.779
So Riger is here.

717
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:36.299
Now, he has been on, so Frakes has been on DS9, not as Thomas

718
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.640
Riker, as Thomas Riker.

719
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.640
He's obviously an enterprise in the final episode of Enterprise.

720
00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:42.900
He's in P...

721
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:43.319
God.

722
00:31:43.380 --> 00:31:45.960
He's been in lower decks.

723
00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:52.079
So he's done quite a few Star Treks, but here he is in...

724
00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:55.380
In generations, he's in an original series. technically.

725
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:57.359
I suppose.

726
00:31:57.420 --> 00:31:58.440
Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

727
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:02.700
So this, this, this is super weird.

728
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:04.380
Like who the fuck is this guy?

729
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.599
So this is Maury Ginsburg?

730
00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:10.079
And he's playing a character called Maury Ginsberg.

731
00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.000
They've kind of gone, wow, you've got a weird name.

732
00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:13.440
We'll just name your character that.

733
00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:18.059
He's clearly not that Maury Ginsberg because this Maury Ginsberg

734
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:19.680
He was not born in 1970.

735
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.380
And it, do you know what I mean?

736
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:25.500
I feel a bit about the groovy chick with the red hair.

737
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:30.839
So, I think what's really funny about that is he, this is about

738
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:38.700
them going to Woodstock, and if it hadn't been for Q, Woodstock

739
00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:41.640
wouldn't have happened because he wouldn't have noticed the thing

740
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.700
and he wouldn't have met the beautiful girl with the red hair, with

741
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:48.779
whom he settles down in order to become an orthodontist, a small

742
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:49.259
town.

743
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:51.599
It's just like, I don't quite know what's happening here.

744
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:53.819
But he's kind of like a normal guy.

745
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:57.240
I think they're just trying to find sort of offbeat ways of

746
00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.339
showing, aren't they, of how the queue is affected.

747
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:01.200
He's affecting physics.

748
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:03.900
He's affected people's lives in intimate ways.

749
00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:08.700
And of course, he gave us Tom, Tom Riker, Will Riker, you know.

750
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:09.900
Both, really.

751
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:14.880
And had a profound effect on our lives. and save humanity from the

752
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:15.420
Borg.

753
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.160
That's the other thing that they say as well.

754
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.819
So, you know, Reich is important for that reason.

755
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:27.000
Um, Yeah, it's, I mean, the Q also introduced us syllable.

756
00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:27.599
So, you know.

757
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:28.859
Yes, that's right.

758
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.240
They were just all paying a day.

759
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:31.380
Well, this Q did that.

760
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.920
But making sure that Woodstock happens, I think, is kind of

761
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:35.579
adorable.

762
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:36.960
Like, I'm here for that.

763
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:38.460
It's a bit of a problem though, isn't it?

764
00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:40.559
Like what you said there about the consistency of the queue over

765
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:44.640
time, I think the different creatives had a different vision of

766
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.119
who it was.

767
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:46.259
And we talked about it before.

768
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:50.099
Maurice Hurley saw Q is a bit sinister and sort of pushing

769
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:53.039
humanity into dangerous spaces like in Q-Hoo.

770
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:53.640
He wrote that one.

771
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:57.599
But then Michael Piller came in and said, no, let's use him to

772
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:00.960
sort of mirror against data and say something about our characters

773
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.359
and use the omnipotence that way.

774
00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:05.700
Pillar writes this script as well.

775
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:09.719
Sorry, I just noticed the composition of that shot, which left a

776
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:12.960
big, big gap in the corner so that the photograph could appear.

777
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.219
Once you start spying in, you can't miss it.

778
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.500
I've ruined it for me from now on.

779
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.019
Then, towards the end of Voyage.

780
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:24.599
They don't really know what to do, Q. So they bring in Delancey's

781
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.179
son and try and do like very silly episodes.

782
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:29.219
And then in Kursman trick.

783
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:34.019
They try and do something very profoundly moving as a character

784
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:36.179
drama between him and Picard.

785
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:40.619
So it's quite different across, it's interesting to see the

786
00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:42.239
changes, but you're right.

787
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:44.579
There is no sort of, there's no through line.

788
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.780
No.

789
00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:48.659
And, like, in a way, I don't mind that because there's just this

790
00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:51.719
episode, and I think this episode has a great little character arc

791
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:55.860
for John Delancey, and, like I said, gives the cure shape, gives

792
00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:56.639
them a history.

793
00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:02.460
Um, I don't know why Isaac Newton dies in a, in a Liverpool

794
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:03.420
dentist prison.

795
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:07.559
Why does every showing this...?

796
00:35:07.619 --> 00:35:09.360
Why the apple fell out of the tree?

797
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:10.139
Have you noticed that?

798
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:13.619
All these genre shows try to explain how that happened.

799
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.780
Yeah, Doctor Who just fell.

800
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.159
Oh, dear.

801
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:23.639
But, you know, these characters are a bit, they're a bit more fun

802
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:25.800
than our usual boy in regular, so happy days.

803
00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:26.699
Yeah, yeah.

804
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:32.159
Actually, I think Maury Ginsberg's pretty hilariously sweet. how's

805
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.860
a hippie going to Woodstock and then he becomes an orthodontist

806
00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:36.300
with chill for children.

807
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.500
What I love is Janeway going, I want you to imagine, gentlemen

808
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:43.440
that you've been beamed 300 years into the future.

809
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.760
And she goes, you're having a weird dream.

810
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.000
Shit, that's not working.

811
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:53.940
Oh, don't worry, none of you gonna remember this anyway.

812
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:54.900
Yeah.

813
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:56.639
Oh, dear.

814
00:35:56.699 --> 00:36:02.639
I do wonder sometimes if this was later, Voyager, Mulgrew would be

815
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:06.179
a bit more relaxed and having a bit more fun with this.

816
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.440
He's very serious.

817
00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:11.940
I know it's a serious topic, but she did relax a lot, sort of

818
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:12.960
around 4 and five.

819
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:14.340
Yeah, yeah.

820
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:21.300
That might have been good And if they're just kind of like not...

821
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.079
To be honest with you, I can't see any difference between this and

822
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.480
stock case set number 68, if I'm honest.

823
00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:29.460
No, it's got a bit of perspects.

824
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.360
There's certainly there's certainly the back wall of stock tapes

825
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:34.019
at one there.

826
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.239
There we go back here.

827
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:38.699
It doesn't look too tough, does it?

828
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.239
No, no, it doesn't look good.

829
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:43.619
Mind you, neither does that desert.

830
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.800
Do you know, I was just thinking about that desert and maybe if

831
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:50.579
this was a Kurtzman crew, Obviously they do it. they visualise it

832
00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:52.199
in a way that the crew will understand.

833
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:56.039
Well, because this crew is so boring, that that's all they could

834
00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:57.539
possibly imagine.

835
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.300
But if it was a Kursman crew. might be something visually

836
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:00.900
arresting.

837
00:37:01.139 --> 00:37:06.059
Well, I just think the problem with it is it thinks it's cleverer

838
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:14.699
than it actually is, and in a way, it doesn't sell, it doesn't

839
00:37:14.699 --> 00:37:19.320
sell the, we've done everything now and we're just bored.

840
00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:21.360
Like we are definitely bored.

841
00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:24.119
Um, I don't know.

842
00:37:24.179 --> 00:37:24.960
I don't know.

843
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:26.340
I don't know.

844
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.739
I remember when I 1st watched it and I I did.

845
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:32.820
I remember thinking it was a smart way of just selling how

846
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.719
tedious.

847
00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:34.380
It would be.

848
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:36.420
Yeah, to be able to do whatever you want.

849
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:39.659
I think it's Delancey's line of, oh, we've all been the

850
00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:40.380
scarecrow.

851
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:42.480
I love that line.

852
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:45.719
I love that we've all been the scarecrow line.

853
00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:47.699
I mean, just to get out in the sunshine.

854
00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:49.860
Five minutes.

855
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:50.219
Yeah.

856
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:53.340
Yes.

857
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.480
Yeah, you see, like, I think they even do a crane shot, you know.

858
00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:59.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

859
00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:04.380
So, so it is, I actually like how quickly they decide to just go

860
00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:05.639
yeah, screw it, let's do that.

861
00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:10.260
You know, like, uh, let's show them the continuum.

862
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:11.820
Let's take some people here.

863
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:16.079
Um, Oh, there's just that one.

864
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.519
Yeah, well, this is a good scene.

865
00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:17.820
Yeah.

866
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:18.719
Yeah.

867
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:23.519
And this is like, you know, you know what we said about, um, no

868
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:24.659
his track being a lot of talk.

869
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:27.059
This is the sort of scenes where it works, where you just have 2

870
00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:31.860
good characters like sharing or bonding or come into a

871
00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:32.400
realisation.

872
00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:35.099
This is what Knight is Trek done, does really well when it's well

873
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:35.579
written.

874
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:44.099
So, again, you know, we're kind of making it an odd choice.

875
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.280
Like, it's not his call.

876
00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:48.539
Do you know what I mean?

877
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:51.059
And like, I understand why you don't want someone to make the

878
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:54.000
decision to end their life, you know, like, and you want to stop

879
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.679
people from doing that. of course you do.

880
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:58.679
You save a life, you know, if you can.

881
00:38:58.739 --> 00:39:03.300
But, I don't know, like you can't, I don't know.

882
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:04.019
I don't know.

883
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.780
I just think there's something uncomfortable about it all.

884
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:12.119
It's such a nonsense, moral dilemma, because it just, how do we

885
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:12.960
compare this to our lives?

886
00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:15.539
When would we ever be in a position where it's either prison or

887
00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:16.019
suicide?

888
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.900
You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

889
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.559
And it doesn't, so it is sort of trying to touch because we've got

890
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:26.880
him saying that elderly and infirm Vulcans end their lives.

891
00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:30.360
Which I do that, okay.

892
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.860
No, I don't know, but it sounds like the sort of logical thing

893
00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:35.639
that they would do.

894
00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:42.840
But, um, I don't know.

895
00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:46.619
I mean, you can see YQ would be beguiled by Captain Janeway, can't

896
00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:46.800
you?

897
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:52.079
Yeah, I'm just, I'm super put off by this.

898
00:39:52.139 --> 00:39:54.599
Although she seems to be winning in this scene.

899
00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:57.420
She seems to be having more fun than him.

900
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.219
And you introduced us to the book.

901
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.420
Thank you very much.

902
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

903
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.179
Uncovered my one redeeming virtue.

904
00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:08.760
Are we caught saying Kathy?

905
00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:10.380
Oh, I suppose he calls him Jean-Luc.

906
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.639
Like, maybe we're at times, maybe we're looking...

907
00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:15.900
No, no, no.

908
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:18.239
I think Colin Kathy or Kate is fine.

909
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:26.340
Um, uh, But it's the, it's the sexism thing. turning up in her bed

910
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:27.659
it's calling her Madam Captain.

911
00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:31.739
It's the particular stuff where it's because she's a woman.

912
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.159
I mean, he didn't go on Deep Shace 9 and talk about how Cisco was

913
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:35.519
black.

914
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.820
And thank God because that would be now rich. have the big

915
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:39.719
fisticuffs.

916
00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:44.760
Yeah, it's a bit awkward. isn't it And it is like, it's like we're

917
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:46.139
not comfortable.

918
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:49.739
Like, what's the 1st thing that he's going to notice about the

919
00:40:49.739 --> 00:40:50.039
ship?

920
00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:51.239
Oh, it's a woman in charge.

921
00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:52.800
Look at Kate's reaction to that.

922
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:56.579
This is just one of those rare moments that you talk about a lot

923
00:40:56.579 --> 00:41:00.119
where we're allowed to see what she's thinking just by her

924
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:00.539
acting.

925
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:03.539
She doesn't explicitly say a word.

926
00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:09.719
Which is so wonderful. then she looks back to the window. she's

927
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:15.360
gone too. it's beautiful So good. she was hired, right?

928
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:16.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

929
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:17.460
Yeah.

930
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:18.659
And that's what I like.

931
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.059
I think she gets another one of those in here too.

932
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:27.300
And I do, I do think the way they, you know, they, they write um

933
00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:31.320
the, the result of the hearings in very considered ways.

934
00:41:31.380 --> 00:41:35.099
But she just delivers it in a beautiful way.

935
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:36.420
Yeah.

936
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:37.019
Yeah.

937
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:38.699
That's why she was hired as well.

938
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.760
Someone that can make something of this terrible dialogue.

939
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:47.099
But I just love how they just quickly, he just quickly whispers.

940
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:49.559
We get Kate and he goes, yep, okay, fine.

941
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:51.239
We're doing that.

942
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:53.400
And look at him.

943
00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:57.780
Look at his look, like, um, like Q2 is doing a sort of little

944
00:41:57.780 --> 00:41:59.760
comedy smug thing.

945
00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:02.099
Like he's still playing at camp.

946
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:03.900
He's still being a bit silly.

947
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:06.780
It is another of what I was talking about.

948
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:07.380
Oh, hang on.

949
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.860
I just want to I just want to look at this very nice shot because

950
00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:13.019
I said to you the other day when we were talking about state of

951
00:42:13.019 --> 00:42:16.739
flux about how it was all sort of location work for TV and a lot

952
00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:19.619
of this is, but there is a very nice establishing shot in a

953
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:19.860
second.

954
00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:23.159
Which is just a green shot?

955
00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:23.579
Yeah.

956
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.719
Well, you just see the, yeah, the vastness of the location.

957
00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:28.980
Yeah, there we go.

958
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:30.059
That's very nice.

959
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:32.400
And boy, just breath in the air for a second.

960
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.320
Space.

961
00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:38.519
But you see, this infinity never closes, a clock with no hands.

962
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.440
Like, it's just not all that clever.

963
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:41.039
What he reading?

964
00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:45.360
The old book, the new...

965
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.760
So nothing, you know.

966
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:50.280
The pinball machine that says galaxy.

967
00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:53.039
They're playing what's that called?

968
00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:53.880
What they're playing?

969
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:55.860
Croquet with planets.

970
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:57.360
There's the dog.

971
00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:00.300
Have we have all tried being the dog as well?

972
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.880
You get to be the dog.

973
00:43:05.219 --> 00:43:10.320
Yeah, like I just... in that sort of disquieting way that they did

974
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:11.519
in caretaker.

975
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:12.780
Do you remember when they went to the ranch?

976
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:14.940
Well, that's the other thing too.

977
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:16.019
They're just doing this.

978
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:16.980
Do you know what I mean?

979
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.880
St.

980
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.280
Rog, that's why I don't know that. that's right.

981
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:22.440
No, no, but do you know what I mean?

982
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.739
It's like, this is how we do giant alien entities.

983
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:26.820
Do you know what I mean?

984
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.239
We just make it the American...

985
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:31.679
What's the cheapest way we can do?

986
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:33.780
Infinity?

987
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:35.820
He goes, well, it would just find a rose.

988
00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:38.639
And then we could say the rose just goes round in a circle.

989
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:46.800
Yeah, like I just didn't like what?

990
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:47.219
I don't know.

991
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:50.760
I just like looking at Delancey's choices here where he's really

992
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:54.420
considering what the other queue is saying and he knows he's got a

993
00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:54.599
point.

994
00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:57.599
Even though he's saying all the right things.

995
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:03.659
I don't know. often Delazi is just used for comedy.

996
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:07.019
I think he's given something a bit more substantial here.

997
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:12.719
But like this is kind of nothing, you know, like they're all just

998
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:13.800
standing around reading.

999
00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:16.679
They smile, but it's a fake smile because they have to smile.

1000
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:19.559
Like, I don't think it tells us anything and I don't think it's

1001
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:20.460
visually arresting.

1002
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:23.039
I think it's a bit nothing.

1003
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:30.539
And given how rare any location work is in Voyager, we're inclined

1004
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:34.320
to give it a pass, but I do think it is pretty unimaginative.

1005
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:39.179
Thank you so much for going outside. we'll take anything That's

1006
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:39.420
right.

1007
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.400
I think that's absolutely it.

1008
00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:49.079
But the, the, the character line through this of cue, our cue, um

1009
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:53.159
having a profound impact on the other cue, and now at the end of

1010
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:56.579
this episode, he has a profound effect, that's just a lovely

1011
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:58.199
that's a lovely new journey.

1012
00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:00.539
Yeah, I think that's I think that is pretty good.

1013
00:45:00.659 --> 00:45:01.860
And you know what?

1014
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.320
It does lean into what I was talking about last week with lower

1015
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:04.800
decks.

1016
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:06.960
Remember I was talking about, you know, doing episodes away from

1017
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.639
our regular characters being more interesting.

1018
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:11.760
Yeah, that's what's happening here.

1019
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:13.800
The big 3 line is these two.

1020
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:16.860
I'm a born again Q, he says, that life's behind me.

1021
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:21.059
Yeah, and like we've not seen any evidence of that.

1022
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:25.500
But I mean, he has been sent here to kind of get Q. Do you know

1023
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:28.320
what I mean to stop you from doing whatever it is doing?

1024
00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:32.159
And I think these 2 performances have to be so on point for the

1025
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:34.260
for this relationship to work.

1026
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.380
The way he just looked at him there where he said, you really

1027
00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:38.219
inspired me.

1028
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:39.480
You know, you believe him.

1029
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:41.159
Yeah.

1030
00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:44.519
And the stuff about amusement as well, because there's no

1031
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:45.420
amusement left.

1032
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:48.119
Um, yes.

1033
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:51.780
We paid the price by forcing you to stop.

1034
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:53.099
Yeah.

1035
00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:53.820
Yeah.

1036
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:56.039
So, like...

1037
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.920
I I think...

1038
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:00.119
I don't understand your problem with this.

1039
00:46:00.179 --> 00:46:00.539
I do.

1040
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:01.199
Yeah.

1041
00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:04.860
It's not really, it's not really saying anything.

1042
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:08.460
It's saying something about this weird makeup race, you know

1043
00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:11.039
that's sort of beyond our understanding.

1044
00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:17.880
Except, though, it does say something about the impact of sort of

1045
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.139
non-conformity and rebellion against a status quo and stuff like

1046
00:46:22.139 --> 00:46:22.380
that.

1047
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.019
You know, that he is a rebel.

1048
00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:30.179
Um, you know, he's he's challenging orthodoxies and inspiring

1049
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:31.920
people to do something different.

1050
00:46:33.059 --> 00:46:35.880
Oh, even the magazines are boring.

1051
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.739
Do you remember that fabulous magazine last week?

1052
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.360
in the TOA?

1053
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:40.079
yeah.

1054
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:42.239
It's so much better a week before.

1055
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:44.639
What's happened to Star Trek in 30 years?

1056
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:48.840
Exactly. much, much worse magazine game, certainly.

1057
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:57.300
But yeah, so it does become about political oppression and in a

1058
00:46:57.300 --> 00:46:58.619
way.

1059
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:06.420
The thing that should convince Janeway is that he has a right to

1060
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:12.480
um, behave in a way that, you know, the state doesn't want him to

1061
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:12.840
behave.

1062
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:16.440
He's a political prisoner, and so he deserves asylum on that

1063
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:16.800
basis.

1064
00:47:16.860 --> 00:47:18.599
And I think that's kind of where we go, isn't it?

1065
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:24.239
Yeah, although you're right, it is so obsessed with the sort of

1066
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:28.559
suicide theme that her entire wrap-up is about that, about the

1067
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.679
outside, he's going to do rather than, you know, just giving him

1068
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:32.219
free will.

1069
00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:36.659
Yeah, that's right, because he's a, you know, an agent who's

1070
00:47:36.659 --> 00:47:41.940
oppressed by his government and um, he has the right to be free

1071
00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:42.539
you know.

1072
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:48.000
Um, And so the death thing is incidental in a way.

1073
00:47:48.059 --> 00:47:51.119
I mean, the reason that death is the form that it takes is because

1074
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:52.559
these people are immortal.

1075
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:56.340
And it's just doing something different.

1076
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.079
Yeah, yeah.

1077
00:47:58.139 --> 00:47:58.739
Yeah.

1078
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:02.159
But disease is immortality is what he says.

1079
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.320
Yeah, you see, I mean, I don't quite get it.

1080
00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:08.460
I think perhaps, you know, the one show that sells that to me more

1081
00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:13.619
than any other, I guess, is the good place at the end, where we

1082
00:48:13.619 --> 00:48:17.880
discover that immortality, because they don't need anything.

1083
00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:22.320
They just end up getting dumber and stuff because there's nothing

1084
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.719
to strive for and stuff.

1085
00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:28.199
And I think that does a better job of selling it than just we're

1086
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:33.900
all standing around a house being bored and not talking to one

1087
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:38.460
another, and then just having, having Q explain the situation to

1088
00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:38.639
us.

1089
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:43.980
And whilst I did find his suicide at the end of the episode moving

1090
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:45.900
just because of how it was played.

1091
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.500
The choices that the characters made in the last episode of The

1092
00:48:49.500 --> 00:48:53.880
Good Place had me in like Fits of Tears.

1093
00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:56.039
I'm in tears for the entire episode.

1094
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:57.360
The difference between the 2 shows.

1095
00:48:57.420 --> 00:48:57.960
Yeah, you know.

1096
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.900
Oh, God, this is a scene I really hate.

1097
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:03.300
Why does he look like Scrooge?

1098
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:07.559
Well, I think it's to try and take the edge off of it to make it

1099
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:08.219
more comical.

1100
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:08.940
Do you know what I mean?

1101
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:13.739
Like, he's wearing a sort of, yeah, like, you know, like a

1102
00:49:13.739 --> 00:49:17.400
Victorian kind of night dress and stuff like that in order to make

1103
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.420
it sillier.

1104
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.059
Fabulous velvet nightcount though, doesn't she?

1105
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:22.380
No, it's Saturn.

1106
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:22.920
Look out.

1107
00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:24.000
It's beautiful.

1108
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:27.420
Do you have one, Nathan?

1109
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:29.219
No, no.

1110
00:49:29.219 --> 00:49:31.800
You smoke your pipe in the evening.

1111
00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:37.019
She looks awesome and her hair looks fantastic.

1112
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:38.820
I don't get this.

1113
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:45.719
I don't get at all why Q would be interested romantically in a

1114
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:46.260
human being.

1115
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.579
I just don't.

1116
00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:49.800
And I don't know why it's here. isn't.

1117
00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:51.480
Yeah, yeah.

1118
00:49:51.539 --> 00:49:52.860
Well, that's what he's doing, right?

1119
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:53.880
He's making a part.

1120
00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:54.480
Yeah.

1121
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.579
But it's me, and you see, it's me, and it... then he says.

1122
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:00.360
Forget Mark.

1123
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:02.940
I'll show you a good girl time.

1124
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:04.679
Oh, it's just weird.

1125
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:05.579
Yeah, yeah.

1126
00:50:05.579 --> 00:50:07.619
And it muddies the whole episode as well.

1127
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:14.219
Yeah, but I mean, what he's trying to seduce her with is a return

1128
00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:14.760
home.

1129
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.460
Why does he feel close to her, though?

1130
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:18.119
I don't understand.

1131
00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:19.920
What's been established?

1132
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:24.420
Yeah, and we know that he's had a, he has relationships with human

1133
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:27.599
women, and this, you managed to preserve your femininity so well

1134
00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.000
is so full, isn't it?

1135
00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:32.579
And she just walks over to him and says, Lee.

1136
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.599
Which is absolutely the right response.

1137
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:41.579
Like, she's really, really good, but that's a really, like, it's

1138
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:44.820
just, you managed to preserve your femininity and yet maintain

1139
00:50:44.820 --> 00:50:49.199
authority or something like that. as if that was in any doubt.

1140
00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:51.480
Yeah, with any public work.

1141
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.219
That's just stupid.

1142
00:50:53.219 --> 00:50:56.340
I know plenty of men in authoritative positions that manage to

1143
00:50:56.340 --> 00:50:57.960
maintain their femininity, all right?

1144
00:50:58.019 --> 00:50:59.159
Yes, good for them.

1145
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:08.760
I did work with someone who objected to the fact that the ladies

1146
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:12.420
were allowed to wear skirts in the summer and the men still had to

1147
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:13.199
so he wore a skirt.

1148
00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:14.579
Good for you.

1149
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:15.360
Excellent.

1150
00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:16.199
Brilliant.

1151
00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:19.679
Yes.

1152
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:21.059
So again, you're right.

1153
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:23.280
This speech is all about the suicide, isn't?

1154
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:28.260
And she should just be granting asylum.

1155
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:31.920
I think that, I mean, this bit slightly interesting where she says

1156
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:34.019
I have to consider the impact that's going to have on the

1157
00:51:34.019 --> 00:51:37.559
continuum, and it's going to change a society, but she kind of

1158
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:40.199
says, actually, you just need to get over that.

1159
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:41.159
That's some.

1160
00:51:41.219 --> 00:51:42.539
The prime directive apply here.

1161
00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:44.579
I know they're a higher rate.

1162
00:51:44.820 --> 00:51:47.159
They're not warp, they're warp capable.

1163
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:49.559
Is it just not?

1164
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.179
This is the important thing.

1165
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:52.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1166
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:52.440
Yeah.

1167
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:55.440
They can't come in and kind of start pretending to be the

1168
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:57.300
Archangel Gabriel and stuff.

1169
00:51:57.420 --> 00:52:00.840
But she can make a decision where, and we've already established

1170
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:06.300
that the 2nd cue making a wrong call led to a 100 years war

1171
00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:08.820
between the Romulans and the Klingons or something like that.

1172
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:12.780
So she can make these decisions which allow him to make that

1173
00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:15.179
decision that could cause catastrophic effects.

1174
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:15.960
And that's okay.

1175
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:19.260
Well, again, you know, like, what are you going to do?

1176
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.179
Anything could happen as a result of anything.

1177
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:22.380
You can't just sit there and do nothing.

1178
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.179
I think she's doing the right thing.

1179
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:26.760
I've used ours, I come on one time.

1180
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:34.860
Um Yes, so...

1181
00:52:34.860 --> 00:52:38.280
Do we know at this point that he is going to assist in the

1182
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:38.760
suicide?

1183
00:52:38.820 --> 00:52:39.900
I don't think we do, do we?

1184
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:40.980
No, we don't.

1185
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:43.440
I think the seeds have definitely been so I don't think he knows.

1186
00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:47.039
Because DeLancey played that scene in the desert like he was truly

1187
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:48.780
considering what was being said.

1188
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:49.800
Yeah.

1189
00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:50.579
Yeah.

1190
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Look at Janeway's face.

1191
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:56.579
Oh, this speech, I think, is really good.

1192
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.960
This actually really properly moved me this speech.

1193
00:53:01.019 --> 00:53:05.880
Um, because that's what I think too.

1194
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:08.159
This.

1195
00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.380
She says, I like this life.

1196
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:14.280
You know, the mysteries of mortal life.

1197
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:15.599
This is all new to you.

1198
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:18.840
We saw it in Hugh Hugh, from pleasures you've never felt before.

1199
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:20.099
I like this life.

1200
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:21.239
You look at her.

1201
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:26.159
It's beautiful and like that appeal is too easy and and obviously

1202
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:29.099
it's not going to take, but I really love that it got made.

1203
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:33.239
Yeah, I mean, we would buy it if we weren't in this dreary room.

1204
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:34.500
I like this life.

1205
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:35.579
Are you sure?

1206
00:53:36.179 --> 00:53:38.400
Anomaly of the week.

1207
00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:39.599
Yeah, riveting stuff.

1208
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:43.739
But that is a good, that, like, that's what I was thinking.

1209
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:45.840
I was thinking now it's new.

1210
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:47.159
Like, yes, I'm mortal.

1211
00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:52.380
And look how just a few weeks ago we saw Q respond to that

1212
00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:53.400
change.

1213
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:54.780
Do you know what I mean?

1214
00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:59.280
With eating chocolate sundaes and stuff and, you know, experiencing

1215
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.480
hunger and everything.

1216
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:01.980
He's a fun character.

1217
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:04.139
Had they chosen to keep him on the ship?

1218
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:05.639
It might been really great.

1219
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:07.380
A queue.

1220
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.920
Yeah, I think it's a bit quick that we just go to the establish

1221
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.519
next shot.

1222
00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:13.079
Oh, he's in sick pain.

1223
00:54:13.139 --> 00:54:13.739
They have to.

1224
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:17.280
Now, we get a dialogue thing of how we're going to use him.

1225
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:21.179
Because we only have 2 minutes and 59 seconds to go, you know?

1226
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:22.260
Yeah.

1227
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:26.519
Could we not just one time have had, you know, the doctor did not

1228
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:28.500
manage to repair him with his usual skill?

1229
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.539
He is in fact dying.

1230
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:33.420
So, but this is clever though, isn't it?

1231
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.659
Because, like, there's hemlock of some kind.

1232
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:39.179
This is my final gift to my people.

1233
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:41.880
I'll tell them that those were my last words because that was

1234
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:43.019
nearly his last words.

1235
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:45.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty good.

1236
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:49.500
And even the fact, even when he dies before he gets his last word

1237
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:52.139
out, it's just so well played this soon.

1238
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:55.139
And her holding his hand as well, I like.

1239
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:56.579
And I look at her.

1240
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.820
She's very tactile with people in this show, isn't she?

1241
00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:01.139
Yeah, and I like it.

1242
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:04.260
Oh, the doctor's made his contractual appearance.

1243
00:55:04.380 --> 00:55:04.800
Well done.

1244
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:07.980
Yeah, there's the best Robert for just a few seconds.

1245
00:55:08.099 --> 00:55:12.059
But the where did the hemlock come from which we weren't wondering

1246
00:55:12.059 --> 00:55:14.340
or we might not have thought to wonder?

1247
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.079
I've got it for him.

1248
00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:17.280
Yeah, yeah.

1249
00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:19.679
Yes, that's really good, isn't it?

1250
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:21.239
Logical Chevok?

1251
00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:22.019
don't think so.

1252
00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:25.320
It is a nice sting, isn't it?

1253
00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:27.300
Yeah I think it is pretty good.

1254
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:28.800
That's not a bad ending.

1255
00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:33.360
The trouble is, is where this leads is the unfortunate thing.

1256
00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:35.880
It really does lead to...

1257
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.559
We only have 2 episodes left, don't we?

1258
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:38.940
Of Q, yeah.

1259
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the next one is genuinely.

1260
00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:44.159
I do think this is one of the best voyro episodes.

1261
00:55:44.219 --> 00:55:45.179
I think that's one of the worst.

1262
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:46.559
Right okay.

1263
00:55:46.619 --> 00:55:47.219
Okay.

1264
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:50.519
Michael Peeler has left the building and Jerry Taylor is now right

1265
00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:51.000
in the queue.

1266
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:51.960
Right, okay.

1267
00:55:52.019 --> 00:55:52.739
Right.

1268
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:56.579
She was also on the list of 5 underrated things about Voyager.

1269
00:55:56.820 --> 00:56:00.719
I was hurling furniture around the room for that point.

1270
00:56:01.739 --> 00:56:05.519
Janeway, look, she looks, looks off camera.

1271
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:08.219
Oh, we've all learned something this week, haven't we?

1272
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:12.900
Cue the great. off we go Let us never speak of this again.

1273
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:18.960
But I do, I do think they could have just done like a comedy cue

1274
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:23.219
Voyager episode and instead they chose to do a character drama and

1275
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:27.300
they did try to engage with a serious topic and I do appreciate

1276
00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:27.719
that.

1277
00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:29.400
No, I agree.

1278
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:29.940
I agree.

1279
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:30.840
I agree.

1280
00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:34.139
I just don't think it's super successful, I guess.

1281
00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:40.260
And although maybe the 1st time I saw it, I did like the depiction

1282
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:42.119
of the Q continuum.

1283
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:44.579
Um, I think it's a bit thin.

1284
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.139
Now.

1285
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:48.780
What I love about this period of orbit.

1286
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:51.360
There's just a 2nd half of that 2nd season.

1287
00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:55.199
It is pretty much one banger after another.

1288
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.179
They really pulled their socks up.

1289
00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:59.159
We've covered a couple of them, haven't we?

1290
00:56:59.219 --> 00:57:01.559
We've done alliances, resolutions.

1291
00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:05.159
But there's tons that we still haven't done yet.

1292
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:09.059
The Thor, Deadlock, Mailed.

1293
00:57:09.179 --> 00:57:13.559
You know, they basically, they were told this show is not

1294
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:14.159
delivering.

1295
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:15.900
You really do need to start doing this.

1296
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:19.980
And I think this is another good example of the different hats

1297
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:22.139
that they're trying on at this point.

1298
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.360
Yeah, it's still one of my favourite runs, Voyager, and I wasn't

1299
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.500
disappointed by this.

1300
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:33.900
I do understand your reasons because I don't think it's entirely

1301
00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:38.219
clear about what it's trying to say except about the 2 Q

1302
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:38.880
characters.

1303
00:57:38.940 --> 00:57:41.280
There it's, it's, it's very focussed.

1304
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:44.639
I think what it does with the cue is something that we haven't

1305
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:46.139
seen before and I like it a lot.

1306
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:47.820
It does give them shape.

1307
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:51.840
It makes them a bit more interesting without ruining anything, and

1308
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.780
I think that's some, you know, something that could easily have

1309
00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:57.119
been done badly, and I'm glad they attempted it.

1310
00:57:57.179 --> 00:58:00.360
If you're going to bring Hugh back, make him do something that we

1311
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:03.599
haven't seen him do before, and they definitely achieve that

1312
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:03.840
here.

1313
00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:07.019
Don't trade off past glories add.

1314
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:08.340
Add to the myth.

1315
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.980
But then they do try that again in the next one.

1316
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:14.820
They do something different, and that is that civil war, and they

1317
00:58:14.820 --> 00:58:19.920
just do it in a very literal way with the Voyager crew as civil

1318
00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:24.480
war characters and cannons going off and it's just really awful.

1319
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:30.059
But they do bring along Susie Paxson as Susie Q. And she does have

1320
00:58:30.059 --> 00:58:33.059
the masterful line. cute.

1321
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:39.119
Q is he's brought Janeway's dog and the puppies to the ship from

1322
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:43.679
earth to please her and she beams in and goes, get your hands off

1323
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:48.300
that dog. and then she goes, I'm not talking about the puppies.

1324
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:50.039
Oh my god.

1325
00:58:50.099 --> 00:58:51.539
Oh I love him.

1326
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:54.599
Oh, yeah, voyager humour. did talk about that earlier.

1327
00:58:54.659 --> 00:58:55.920
Yeah, terrible.

1328
00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:59.099
Well, I'll say this about Death Wish.

1329
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:01.260
There are worst episodes of Star Trek Borja.

1330
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.500
That is absolutely undeniably true.

1331
00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:17.280
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1332
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:19.800
find out where we're going next time.

1333
00:59:19.860 --> 00:59:25.139
This was my choice, the usual middling choice you've come to

1334
00:59:25.139 --> 00:59:27.239
associate with me.

1335
00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:28.320
Yes, my house.

1336
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:32.820
Me in control of the randomiser.

1337
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:33.900
But it's your turn.

1338
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:36.960
So it's your job to come up with something good.

1339
00:59:37.019 --> 00:59:38.940
Where are we going?

1340
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:45.000
Well, let's move away from the problematic Voyager to probably the

1341
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.500
more problematic Star Trek, the next generation, only, because

1342
00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:53.820
that is the 90s trek where that we've covered the least, and

1343
00:59:53.820 --> 00:59:54.960
there's a lot of it.

1344
00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:55.920
Apparently so.

1345
00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:57.659
Yeah, it's 3rd from bottom.

1346
00:59:57.719 --> 00:59:59.280
Wow, okay.

1347
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:03.480
Of all the series. because they keep choosing Enterprise to kind

1348
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:05.340
of make up the balance.

1349
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.800
Do not throw up a series 7 episode, all right?

1350
01:00:07.860 --> 01:00:09.000
We've done too many of those.

1351
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:11.159
All right.

1352
01:00:11.219 --> 01:00:11.820
Okay.

1353
01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:13.500
And they're never good.

1354
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:17.280
Right. here we go Oh my god, I don't believe it.

1355
01:00:17.340 --> 01:00:19.139
Season seven, episode six.

1356
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:20.519
No, I'm pressing it again anyway.

1357
01:00:20.579 --> 01:00:21.960
Oh, wait, what is it though?

1358
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:23.039
It was Phantasms.

1359
01:00:23.099 --> 01:00:25.079
Councillor Troy is a birthday cake.

1360
01:00:25.139 --> 01:00:25.679
That's all right.

1361
01:00:25.739 --> 01:00:27.179
Okay, here we go.

1362
01:00:27.179 --> 01:00:28.380
With mint frosting.

1363
01:00:28.980 --> 01:00:30.599
Oh, no.

1364
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:32.340
This could almost be perfect.

1365
01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:35.280
Season six. episode nine.

1366
01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:36.840
The quality of life.

1367
01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:41.460
Ah, yes.

1368
01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:43.980
After peanut hamper last week.

1369
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:45.960
What do you reckon?

1370
01:00:46.019 --> 01:00:49.739
Well, I mean, it very much is doing Star Trek Star Trek, isn't

1371
01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:49.860
it?

1372
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:51.239
It's very Star Trek.

1373
01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:57.239
It's also, you know, TNG twee, which can be pretty terrible.

1374
01:00:57.300 --> 01:00:59.099
And it is a data episode.

1375
01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:00.420
And we haven't done too many of those.

1376
01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:01.380
Really?

1377
01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:03.599
Yeah, it's quite a good data episode, I think.

1378
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:06.420
Oh, I think that is a sound choice actually.

1379
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:07.260
Okay.

1380
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:07.679
All right.

1381
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:08.400
I'm up for that.

1382
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:10.920
Either way, let's be honest.

1383
01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:18.300
But, yeah, I think, for me, like, I was so on board with three

1384
01:01:18.300 --> 01:01:19.320
four, and five.

1385
01:01:19.380 --> 01:01:23.519
And so 6 is kind of the 1st time that I felt conscious that I was

1386
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:28.019
watching like completely new Star Trek because like when I started

1387
01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:30.480
watching it, it was all sort of a bit of a mess and stuff like

1388
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:30.659
that.

1389
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.039
And so 6 is where I start noticing like different people's names

1390
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:37.260
like different producers in the opening credits and stuff.

1391
01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:40.920
And I start to wonder whether this is really as good as it had

1392
01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:43.920
been the past few years and I don't know.

1393
01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:46.860
Like, I have a very strong memory of that feeling, but I don't

1394
01:01:46.860 --> 01:01:48.059
know whether it's justified or not.

1395
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:51.960
I've sort of come to the conclusion doing untitled Star Trek

1396
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:55.139
project that 3 and 4 are consistently very strong.

1397
01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:57.659
I think 5's a bit middling.

1398
01:01:57.719 --> 01:02:00.480
There's good episodes in there, but I think there's a lot of mid

1399
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:01.079
in there as well.

1400
01:02:01.139 --> 01:02:05.639
And I think 6 is their sort of last rows of success.

1401
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:09.960
If you look at the episodes across, about two thirds of them are

1402
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:10.679
good to gray.

1403
01:02:10.739 --> 01:02:13.679
This probably falls just below great.

1404
01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:15.719
Um, and then seven.

1405
01:02:15.780 --> 01:02:16.260
Wow.

1406
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:17.280
I don't know what happened.

1407
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:20.400
Everyone's bored by that point. and they all want to be doing DS9

1408
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:20.760
instead.

1409
01:02:20.820 --> 01:02:22.860
Yes, that sounds fun.

1410
01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:25.380
Well, let's discover the journey of the exacombs.

1411
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:26.880
Yeah, brilliant.

1412
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:27.659
Okay.

1413
01:02:35.219 --> 01:02:39.000
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1414
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:40.139
and Nathan Bottomley.

1415
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:43.500
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1416
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:46.260
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1417
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:49.920
Now, podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was

1418
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:51.659
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1419
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:55.920
This episode was recorded on the 17th of September 2024 and

1420
01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:57.960
released on the 27th of September.

1421
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:01.739
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, the

1422
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:02.699
quality of life.

1423
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:22.380
Did you really were there?

1424
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:23.699
Yeah, yeah.

1425
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:25.500
Oh, it's me.

1426
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:26.820
It's your turn.

1427
01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:30.239
Oh no, what's this?

1428
01:03:30.300 --> 01:03:34.260
I've got a notification on untitled Star Trek.

1429
01:03:34.380 --> 01:03:36.539
Denise Crosby.

1430
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:40.019
It's so disheartening that I've received such insulting and

1431
01:03:40.019 --> 01:03:41.460
disrespectful comments.

1432
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:43.380
What is she talking about?

1433
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.480
Maybe this could be the tag.

1434
01:03:45.539 --> 01:03:46.320
Let's find out.

1435
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:48.780
What is she talking about?

1436
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:49.679
Come on.

1437
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:55.980
By my post to invite curious and like-minded folks to a Zoom event

1438
01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:56.880
I'm taking part in.

1439
01:03:56.940 --> 01:04:01.019
No need to hate on a different opinion, taught less, listen more.

1440
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:02.760
Oh my god.

1441
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:04.199
She transphobic?

1442
01:04:04.260 --> 01:04:05.340
Oh god, let's have a look.

1443
01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:08.039
Oh God.

1444
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:12.960
Join me and these amazing women on October the 3rd to support

1445
01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:15.420
Kamala Harris for president.

1446
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:16.619
Oh okay.

1447
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:19.800
That seems like the right thing to be doing.

1448
01:04:19.860 --> 01:04:21.119
Americans, yeah.

1449
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:22.199
Yeah.

1450
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:24.059
Well, she's on Twitter, isn't she?

1451
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:27.300
So, you sort of deserve everything. you get.

1452
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.039
No, I don't mean that.

1453
01:04:29.099 --> 01:04:32.159
I mean, that's the kind of reaction you're likely to get, isn't

1454
01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:32.340
it?

1455
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:34.019
Like, that's why it's so awful.

1456
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:37.440
If you watch the discourse when our new strange new worlds or

1457
01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:41.519
Discovery episode drops, yeah, it's vile.

1458
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:43.500
Yeah, terrible.

1459
01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:48.599
I mean, you can just watch the old stuff, you know, if that's what

1460
01:04:48.599 --> 01:04:49.019
you want.

1461
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:54.719
If you want to watch, you know, good high quality sexist drama, put

1462
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:55.679
death wish on instead.

1463
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:01.860
Okay, let me.

1464
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:10.380
I think he made a sound point about the magazines. significantly

1465
01:05:10.380 --> 01:05:11.400
worse, weren't they?

1466
01:05:11.460 --> 01:05:12.659
Yeah, yeah.

1467
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.659
Oh, Jason Rowe had a great magazine game, haven't we?

1468
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:16.380
Jupiter eight.

1469
01:05:16.500 --> 01:05:17.340
Jupiter eight.

1470
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:18.300
Yeah, yeah.

1471
01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:20.820
Okey-dokey.

1472
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:21.300
Right.

1473
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:21.780
Okay.

1474
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:23.579
Okay, okay, okay.

1475
01:05:23.639 --> 01:05:25.019
Hang on.

1476
01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:26.039
Clear all.

1477
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.239
Actually, hang on.

1478
01:05:33.300 --> 01:05:34.380
I want to look at the percentages.

1479
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:34.980
Give me a 2nd.

1480
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:39.300
Mm, I haven't looked at the percentages for ages.

1481
01:05:40.860 --> 01:05:43.320
I'm going to put that up.

1482
01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:46.440
That was fun when I realised that could just be part of the bill

1483
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:48.179
process is creating that.

1484
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:49.980
That's pretty good.

1485
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:54.300
Oh, Strange New Worlds at 4 episodes is at the top.

1486
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.159
What a shame.

1487
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:58.079
Okay, hang on.

1488
01:05:58.139 --> 01:05:59.219
We'll stand upon.

1489
01:05:59.280 --> 01:05:59.699
Okay.

1490
01:06:06.059 --> 01:06:07.800
Okay, yeah.

1491
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:11.940
Okay.

1492
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:15.780
All right, it's the end of the episode.