WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:41:16

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, last week we did an excellent episode of Lower Decks, and I decided it was time to sort of balance things up a bit with an episode of Voyager.

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This is Voyager season two, episode 18, Death Wish.

4
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And I'm happy to report that I thought this was pretty mediocre.

5
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I'm sure that you agree with me.

6
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I don't agree with you at all, actually.

7
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I think this is one of my favourite Star Trek Voyager episodes and watching it this time, aside from one scene, which I object too strongly, I still think this is one of my favourite Star Trek Voyager episodes.

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It's very Voyager, I think, and maybe that's the problem with it.

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It's an important issue that we have a dumb take on that we want to litigate, and so we do a courtroom drama, and I'm torn because I love a courtroom drama, and after all, devil's due is a courtroom drama.

10
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And so is uh, what's the, what's the season 21 with data called?

11
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Oh, Measure of a Man.

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Measuring a man. fantastic court.

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Drumhead is a great corner of drama.

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So it's something that Star Trek can do very well.

15
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It's a pity where it shoved in this tiny, tiny, tiny, unimpressive set, you know, just a normal standing set, and there is a lot of standing around talking, which is inevitable in a courtroom drama.

16
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They spent all the money on that desert and the Christmas tree.

17
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That's why.

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Which is terrible.

19
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That's wonderful. is wrong with you?

20
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So boring.

21
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But I do think there are some moments where inevitably Kate is unbelievably great.

22
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And there are some good bits, I think, you know, some interesting things, like interesting choices they make about Q, which I think is pretty good if you're going to bring Q back.

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Let's do something completely different with him.

24
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I thought the guest star...

25
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This whole lipstick that they put on him in this episode is very distracting.

26
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Yeah.

27
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So that's the lipstick that he does wear in encounter at Firepoint.

28
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Yeah, so I'm not quite sure what's going on there.

29
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But also I want to say, shout out to, um, is it Gerrett Graham?

30
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Garrett Graham?

31
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I have to say his name.

32
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It is superb.

33
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He's really good.

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Yeah.

35
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Yeah.

36
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He's very funny doing his sort of Samantha like bewitched hand movements every time he does.

37
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38
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He does his own crappy version of the hand movement which is pretty good.

39
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He is in a deep space 9 episode.

40
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Are you aware of this?

41
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I am not. which one Captive pursuit?

42
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Who does he play in captive pursuit?

43
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He's the main hunter, I think, in captive pursuit.

44
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Wow, that is such a different turn.

45
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Well, he's had a load of latex as well.

46
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And a load of makeup, yeah.

47
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48
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Gosh.

49
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But I really think he delivers such a moving performance at the end of this.

50
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Yeah he's really good.

51
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I was sort of genuinely touched at this omnipotent being committing suicide at the end of the episode.

52
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I think I think it heads to the right conclusion and it could so easily have not done that.

53
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Yeah.

54
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I mean, there are a few things here that I think date it terribly.

55
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And I think that the constant talk of suicide in an episode like this, which I just don't think we would do now.

56
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I think that we're much more circumspect when it comes to talking about suicide and stuff and rightly so.

57
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But this is a little bit more of a sort of assisted dying thing.

58
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And that's kind of like an issue that's been resolved as well.

59
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I think at least in Australia in most jurisdictions, if not all.

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They're talking about it right now in this country.

61
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Yeah, well, Brexit.

62
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We're lingering on wilder, you know?

63
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That's right So it's still a thing.

64
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I guess it is still a thing.

65
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Everything's set up a little bit too pat and I just, I don't know.

66
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I don't know.

67
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I would rather watch a Voyager episode, though, that is attempting to tackle a weighty issue.

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Sensitively, than, I don't know, your romance of the week or anomaly of the week or any of that usual bullshit they do.

69
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They're trying to say something.

70
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Maybe they don't quite get there, but I think in the journey of that, through the dialogue, they do have things to say.

71
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And I think it does genuinely have something to say about the Q continuum and that running storyline as well.

72
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And I love that.

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More importantly of all, is there something about our queue that we've been following since Encounter of Farpoint?

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which I thought was really moving as well.

75
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I did think that was great, and it played to sort of John DeLancey's strengths as well.

76
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I guess it's just a little bit too pass, in a way, it's a little bit too easy to set up a courtroom drama, so that you have someone whose job it is to argue both sides and stuff like that, just a little bit kind of easy.

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And it's not a very good courtroom drama, I think.

78
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But why, yeah, I don't really think it's trying to be your standard courtroom drama.

79
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Not when you can beam in people from all of time and space.

80
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I mean, that's very funny.

81
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I did think this had some genuinely laugh out loud moments in it as well.

82
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I did love Q beaming onto the ship and going, have you got rid of your menfo altogether?

83
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Is this a ship of the Valkyries when all the women are left?

84
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Yeah, there are some funny lines and it's doing some sort of quirky things towards the start as well.

85
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And we'll talk about the desert scene when we get there because I really, it's not visually interesting.

86
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I don't think it's trying to be visually interesting.

87
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I think that's rather the point.

88
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I just think it is trying, and I don't mean that in a negative way, in a way that the boyish very often doesn't even bother, you know.

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And like you said, force Kate Mulgrew into this unfortunate dilemma that she's in between, you know, sending him to prison or allowing him to kill himself.

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It's a bit of a weird situation to be in, but she plays it so well.

91
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So, and there's, my favourite scene in this whole episode is, it's nothing to do with the courtroom drama at all.

92
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It's the bit where Q reveals the earth.

93
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And for a 2nd, for just a 2nd, the look on her face is like, I will do anything to see that.

94
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So good.

95
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You know, it's so awesome.

96
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Just it catches her breath.

97
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It's wonderful.

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She's so good.

99
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She's so good.

100
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The other thing, the other thing that I think dates it that I just hate.

101
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I absolutely hate is the constant sexism from our future.

102
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That's my one scene I really hate.

103
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It's awful.

104
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I don't understand the point of it.

105
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It doesn't impact on the episode.

106
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It doesn't reach any kind of serious resolution.

107
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It's dumb.

108
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It's what we go on to do in the queue and the gray, which is the next one because there's a huge civil war between the cues on the back of the decision that Jane Way makes here.

109
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And that thrusts her into this weird role of a civil war heroine that cues got it inside and it's just bullshit.

110
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It's just the worst thing that ever happened with the cue.

111
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But given Q came into DS9, and it was such a terrible fear, like it just didn't work at all with what they were trying to do on DS9 at that point where they were trying to do sort of sub TNG knockoffs and seeing if they were.

112
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Surprise, they didn't.

113
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Voyager is a sub TNG knockoff as a whole.

114
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So, of course, comes onto this.

115
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And actually, it's having a bit of fun for once as well, which is not a very fun show.

116
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And so I think it sort of delivers, it delivers some laughs.

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It delivers some thoughtful moments and it gives some acting opportunities.

118
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I think it's a good all round up.

119
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No, I think that's fair.

120
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I think that's fair.

121
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For me, it's just a little bit talky.

122
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You've referred to this a few times, but when we do the call on Zoom, I always try and get a screen grab as the background and there's no shot that just isn't full of people talking.

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Like it's that just terrible 90s thing where every spare moment has to be filled where they're sort of just talking and talking and talking.

124
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And so I've just got the stupid comet over my left shoulder here.

125
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Do you know what?

126
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I was listening to Horror of Horrors, another Star Trek podcast the other day.

127
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I know who knew there was any more out there, apart from this live effort.

128
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And it was Scott McNulty's Random Trek, which you and I both love.

129
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We're still waiting for the event.

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Scott, all right?

131
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We're still waiting.

132
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How many of these bloody things do we have to do before we get your attention?

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And he had someone on to a DS9 episode. one that you and I have done, the House of Quark, and the Fella had never watched DS9 before, right?

134
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And sort of knew TNG, but he wasn't a Star Trek fan.

135
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So he was kind of new to the franchise.

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And he could not believe how he goes, this, this is done in the 90s.

137
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He goes, and it's filmed and paced more like 60s television, like the original Star Trek.

138
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Bad TV now.

139
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He goes, this is the midway point.

140
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So I should be seeing some progress from 60s to 90s to now.

141
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And he goes, this is more like 70s TV being made in the 90s.

142
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And I think there is something to that.

143
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But we like the talk, right?

144
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Like, we love 90s trade.

145
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We do like the talk.

146
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

147
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We like 90s track.

148
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We do like 90s track.

149
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But these kind of players to 90s.

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Witnesses.

151
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

152
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Yeah, yeah.

153
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Wow.

154
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You know what?

155
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I mean, the 1st half it doesn't hang around for long.

156
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They're zipping about all over the place.

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The 2nd half we're going into an asteroid and a desert and all sorts of places, like I finished plenty to talk about here.

158
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Yeah, I think there is too.

159
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And some great acting.

160
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I'm looking forward to it we talk about it?

161
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Yeah.

162
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All right.

163
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I'll count us in.

164
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

165
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Okay, establishing shots, a meteor travelling through space.

166
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Yeah, it's so boring, isn't it?

167
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It's just the most mid voyager of opening.

168
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Oh, it's not really a comet.

169
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You're killing me.

170
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Unusually, they don't put Q in the tile as well.

171
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Was the Q reveal supposed to be a genuine surprise?

172
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Oh, I don't know, actually.

173
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And they might have decided just to not go with that.

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So all of the queue episodes apart from encounter at FarPoint, which we used to like to call, encounter at FarPoint.

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To have a street, that's true.

176
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But then the other Voyager ones are the queue and the gray and Q2.

177
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So they're making a statement three.

178
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Voyager?

179
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Yeah, but they need the ratings by that point.

180
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At this point, they still think this might be a success.

181
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The fools.

182
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Oh, yeah.

183
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So this is such a shitty teaser as well.

184
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It's just like, and it's a guy.

185
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Oh, my goodness, you know.

186
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Although, I suppose the fact that he's at a star for uniform is supposed to raise an eyebrow.

187
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Like, who's this?

188
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Well, it works, but only if you've watched Star Trek the Next Generation because the surprise is that that guy is Q. Suppose you came in with Voyager.

189
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You'd be going, well, what the hell's Q?

190
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What's that?

191
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What's a cue?

192
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What do we care?

193
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And so this story was actually pitched by Sean Pillar, Michael Pillar's son.

194
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So he gets a story credit. have an obsession with suicide for some reason?

195
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No.

196
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But I think his idea included the idea of getting to our queue by having another queue appear on Voyager because it's kind of like, and they're saying, and this is such a dumb thing to say because they don't really understand quite the relationship between TV and reality, but they say, are we really going to have Q?

197
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Just, he only appears on ships that have their own series.

198
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So he appears on...

199
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Yes, that's right.

200
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Because the only ships that we see are the ones that have their own series.

201
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I saw some wonderful queue episodes in my imagination in that other show.

202
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That's it.

203
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Jesus, they cannot be that.

204
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Backwards of television.

205
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But I think what they meant to say is why is Q here?

206
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Like, why is Q always on the Star Trek shows?

207
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And so coming at it more indirectly and just having a Q, and then our Q sort of comes along as a result.

208
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Um, and the one innovation that this show has is it does give the cure shape.

209
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It does.

210
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But also as well, like the only other time we've seen another queue was that fellow that came in at the end of the one we just did.

211
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The very sitcom performance.

212
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. full of sort of strange body language.

213
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But it does say a lot about RQ when you put him up against another character.

214
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And the fact that they make this queue a revolutionary because he wants to do something out of the norm and how that then mirrors how our queue used to be before we reformed and became a good member of the queue.

215
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It really is saying something about his character.

216
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And it ignites a spark in him.

217
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There's like, God, yeah, he did used to be like that, you know?

218
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that's why he makes a choice as he does at the end of the episode.

219
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And like, I don't think it actually works, given in the sense that that's not what we saw on Star Trek, the Next Generation, but I actually don't care, what it does is it takes the episode Deja Q. And I was wondering how, as I was watching this, how strongly they would reference it, and they properly reference it, don't they?

220
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They'd prefer to it.

221
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They make it pivotal.

222
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Did you hear that?

223
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The rabbit thing is a rabbit.

224
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Anyway. so bad.

225
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I mean, so... on a separate Star Trek podcast.

226
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I know there's 2 more.

227
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.240
There was a top five.

228
00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:21.240
No, top 5 best Voyager underappreciated things.

229
00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:23.460
And someone said the humour.

230
00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:25.559
And they all according.

231
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:27.779
I was like, no, I'm out of this podcast now.

232
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:29.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

233
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:31.980
You guys need to go and watch something that's actually funny.

234
00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.320
Now he's being a creep.

235
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.299
No, no, but the way he delivers that line.

236
00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:37.320
It's not big creepy.

237
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.600
It sort of like wonder. it's envious.

238
00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:42.960
He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. only live for 9 years.

239
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.419
It's a really great delivery.

240
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.000
Yeah.

241
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:53.100
Jane Williams literally got such a stick up her butt in this episode, doesn't she?

242
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.799
It's your favourite hairdo as well.

243
00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.919
Yeah, I love this hairdo.

244
00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:01.500
It is my favourite hairdo because we're back in season two.

245
00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.139
It's season two, episode 18 Death Wish.

246
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:05.039
Did we even say that?

247
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.500
I'm not sure we even said it anyway.

248
00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:09.360
We're slumming it now on this podcast.

249
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.480
No, I drop listening to other ones.

250
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.320
Poor Ethan FedEx.

251
00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:19.559
I had to get up in that ghastly makeup for that one joke.

252
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:20.279
That's it.

253
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:21.899
Yeah, it's so bad.

254
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:23.039
That's a living.

255
00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:25.200
So he was doing his last words, isn't he?

256
00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:30.960
Because this is setting up his line for the end, though, isn't it?

257
00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.759
When he genuinely does kill himself.

258
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:33.659
Yeah.

259
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.059
And he says something reasonably similar.

260
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.440
He says I die not for myself, but for you, here is his last word.

261
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.480
Enigmatic, whatever. provocative.

262
00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:43.259
They love the stand.

263
00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:48.299
But then we do hear his last words, and they are very good, and they are along those lines, I think.

264
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:53.399
I just love his bewitched town movements every time.

265
00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:55.200
So funny.

266
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.220
And why him trying to kill himself would get rid of all the men on the ship.

267
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.179
I do not know.

268
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.480
But boy, come on, Nathan, it would be a better show.

269
00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:06.059
We get rid of the 2 worst Roberts.

270
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.259
Harry Kim.

271
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:08.460
Come on.

272
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:09.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

273
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.799
Sorry, you quite like him.

274
00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:12.539
Well, I quite like it.

275
00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:14.819
For whipping left with, you know, 7 could still come along.

276
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.160
Janeway, Bilana, Ez.

277
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:28.380
So it's kind of funny too that, like, he's not quite as easy with the comedy as Delancey.

278
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.059
I mean, John Delancey's really funny, isn't he?

279
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.059
Because he's very odd in Encounter at Farpoint.

280
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:33.720
Don't you think?

281
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:35.039
He's really st and weird.

282
00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:37.140
Everybody is at that point.

283
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.200
No, I'm entirely sure what they're doing is what they're doing.

284
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:43.259
He's more comfortable in Height and Q, even though it's a dismal episode.

285
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:44.460
He's more comfortable.

286
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:45.059
Yeah, yeah.

287
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:45.779
Yeah.

288
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.819
Yeah, he's not as funny, but then who is as funny as John Delalse?

289
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:56.160
No, but he is camp and he is overplaying it in a sort of really cute way.

290
00:17:56.339 --> 00:17:59.940
Can I just, can I just very much point out the direction there?

291
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:07.500
It's that thing they do in 90s trek all the time where someone moves to the side and they leave a huge space for somebody to materialise.

292
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.240
But they always leave it about 10 seconds and you're like, why is there so much space?

293
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:13.859
Oh, someone's coming.

294
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.539
There he is, yeah.

295
00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:18.720
They do it with sort of beaming, they do it with queues appearing.

296
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:19.619
It happens a lot.

297
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:28.380
I did love Bilana's line, where she just comes over the intercom and goes, oh, the men have gone.

298
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.420
She's absolutely appalled.

299
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:37.500
I would have liked to have seen Q wearing the...

300
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.579
Oh, here we go.

301
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:43.079
Wearing the the next generation outfit, don't you think?

302
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:45.299
Well, in this, that red outfit.

303
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:47.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

304
00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:50.460
I suppose because it is a trial. this isn't his shit.

305
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.480
Do you know what I mean?

306
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:53.039
Like, this isn't his ship.

307
00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:55.740
No, not the red outfit from Encounter at Farpoint.

308
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.640
The Star Trek, the Next Generation captain's uniform.

309
00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:01.859
Oh, I see what you're saying.

310
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.000
Yeah.

311
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.079
Yeah.

312
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.480
Yeah, because he's from the other show, you know.

313
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:07.799
Oh, I love it.

314
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:09.779
He's just insulting everybody on the bridge.

315
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.119
But that's not funny either.

316
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:13.380
How very wilderness of you.

317
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:14.099
Who says that?

318
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.180
That's not a funny line.

319
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:16.200
What's going on?

320
00:19:16.259 --> 00:19:20.640
I think it's sort of in line with the casual racism with all the Chikotay's ancestry anyway.

321
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:26.759
It's not eaten any books lately or anything like that, which even that's a bit mean.

322
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.680
The boy that cried wolf.

323
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:30.299
I know you haven't.

324
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:31.619
So terrible.

325
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.000
So terrible.

326
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:39.960
I love this, so the cat mouse game, the poor Voyager ship ends up in subatomic particles hanging from a Christmas tree.

327
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:41.700
Oh, it's fun.

328
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:42.839
Yes, it is fun.

329
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:43.500
Yeah, I guess.

330
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:45.900
So we're going to the Big Bang.

331
00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.779
Let yourself enjoy it, Nathan.

332
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.759
Yeah, it's all right.

333
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:51.960
You have a much better time.

334
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.640
We're just sort of standing around and talking and then looking at the thing on the screen.

335
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.559
It's like, oh, weird thing on screen.

336
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.779
And now back to just us juttering.

337
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:02.279
Do you know what I mean?

338
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.779
And describing what's happening.

339
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.539
Like a shot from outside would be nice.

340
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.720
I would, you know, like appreciate that.

341
00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:13.140
I still don't think it's fair to make comparisons with TV mate today.

342
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:25.740
When technology has come on in leaps and bounds and you can do things so cheap, you know, I think the efforts that they go to in this as a whole episode, location work, and we pop into that.

343
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.900
They make that tiny little asteroid cell.

344
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:31.380
That very cheap little asteroids.

345
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:35.279
They even laid that beautiful meal out in the mess hole for Janeway to have.

346
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.359
But don't you think it would have looked impressive from the outside?

347
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.220
Like it could have looked scarier.

348
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.359
It could have looked weirder.

349
00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:47.759
If you think about something like where no one has gone before from Star Trek, the Next Generation.

350
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:51.180
I don't know, you got those little sperms coming towards the view screen.

351
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.339
So I think they're great.

352
00:20:53.400 --> 00:21:00.480
You know, we're being attacked by protons and I would have loved to have seen the fat. the ship.

353
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:01.859
Compare to them.

354
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:02.880
Yeah, of course you do.

355
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:06.660
There you go again, look, that space was left in the middle of that show.

356
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.380
Watch how many times it happens.

357
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:17.039
You just know where he's going to come in nowadays, they would move the fucking camera and let him move it and beat him.

358
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:18.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

359
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:19.980
Oh, dear. really funny.

360
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.319
Oh, I did love this with a Christmas tree.

361
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:24.059
Computer, I need a wider angle.

362
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:28.920
So I, this is very odd.

363
00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:31.440
Look, because we can't get we can't properly see it.

364
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:32.579
We've never seen it.

365
00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:35.640
I mean, I'm sure they could have done an establishing shot of a Christmas tree.

366
00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:36.839
That wouldn't have cost too much.

367
00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:39.119
You know, Rick Berman, get your tree out of the attic.

368
00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:40.140
We need it for a scene.

369
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:41.940
It's very odd.

370
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.299
Well, and clearly John Delancey is in a room with a Christmas tree.

371
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.099
Why they couldn't have done that.

372
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:47.640
Yeah, exactly.

373
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:48.599
Do a shot of it.

374
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:49.500
They have a camera there.

375
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:51.900
Oh, listen to this.

376
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:57.299
The Vonted Q, so fun Knighted. the end of the universe.

377
00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:00.119
She's great Yeah.

378
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.140
So here he is.

379
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:07.859
I'm not sure who would sort of poison fruit more with a look, Cisco or Janeway, but they've both got it, you know.

380
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.720
Yeah, yeah.

381
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:10.440
Yeah.

382
00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:13.920
So the episode with, what's that called?

383
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:15.240
Q less, isn't it?

384
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:17.940
when they're boxing in course, yeah.

385
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.380
Oh, yeah, yeah.

386
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:20.519
Pretty terrible.

387
00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:22.019
Probably, Picard never hit me.

388
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:23.759
Oh, Bashir.

389
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.039
But he's littering all over Vash.

390
00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:26.819
Oh, it's horrible.

391
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:32.880
But this, like when he's asking her, calling her deer and stuff like that, touching her hand and things.

392
00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:34.200
It's so bad.

393
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:38.759
It's not that bad. the scene where he turns up in the bath.

394
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:40.740
That's just terrible.

395
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:41.460
Or is it a bed?

396
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:42.359
It's in the bathroom.

397
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:42.960
No, in bed.

398
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.940
Oh, it's in the bath in queue in the gray.

399
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:45.900
That's when it, yeah.

400
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:46.380
Okay.

401
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:54.420
Because I think we like it in the little gay panic moment in tapestry where, you know, he wakes up.

402
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:56.099
Morning, darling.

403
00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:01.440
But, but that's an established relationship.

404
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.299
They've known each other at that point.

405
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:10.440
You know, episode after episode after episode and it's not the, you know, like it's not a man creeping on a woman.

406
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.380
So it's not quite as awful.

407
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:19.380
And it is just like, why are we constantly talking as if we're surprised that the captain's a woman.

408
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:20.759
Like, this is...

409
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.400
Now, I guess we find out... the punt's really fair.

410
00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:29.579
He says that could be one of the execs, you know, watching her in series one whilst they were filming.

411
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:30.240
That's right.

412
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:32.400
And I'm embarrassed for Kate.

413
00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:34.440
Like, Kate does that reaction.

414
00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:37.140
It's just like, oh, fuck am I putting up with this?

415
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:37.920
Do you know what I mean?

416
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:39.180
Like he's looked at her arse.

417
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:46.680
And then she does that throw to the, the, you know, commercial break and I'm embarrassed for her.

418
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:58.200
The reason I think they kind of get away with the relationship is because John DeLancey and Kmart grew just adored working together and you can see the chemistry between them, you know?

419
00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:03.240
I think she's the reason he kept coming back because she loved working with him a lot.

420
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:07.259
Oh, I really, I love this relationship between Tuvok.

421
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:08.519
Me too. the other cue.

422
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.839
Yeah, yeah.

423
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:15.839
Yeah, so, so again, we giving Tuvok a role, which makes a change.

424
00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:18.660
Early on, they did remember to do that, yes.

425
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.460
And he's good?

426
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:22.259
Like he's really good in this.

427
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.720
The best bit, don't you think?

428
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.279
The best bit is when he goes to him.

429
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.160
Oh yeah, I'm doing this for you, but I don't agree with what you want to do.

430
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:33.119
And the Q, who knows everything, goes, wow, you've surprised me.

431
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:35.460
You have no idea what a gift that is for me.

432
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:36.779
It's a rare thing.

433
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:37.200
Thank you.

434
00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:38.819
Yeah, it's pretty good, isn't it?

435
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:53.700
Even the fact that they're talking about the way the queue just barge in, you know, they've, they don't care about you and it, and it, he kind of says, is that something that you've always done or is it what happens when you become omnipotent?

436
00:24:53.819 --> 00:25:00.180
And that's kind of interesting because this episode does establish that the cube became omnipotent.

437
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:03.720
Because they develop technology or something.

438
00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:04.740
Do you know what I mean?

439
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:11.519
Like, he compares the ship, uh, to whatever it is the queue can do.

440
00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:14.160
And so they've just sort of surpassed them in technology.

441
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:21.539
So the Q aren't gods, they're people who've acquired this power and they have immortality as a result.

442
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:28.559
And I think that's, like, that gives them a shape, that gives them a history, and then the episode gives them a history, doesn't it?

443
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:32.279
By making him a philosopher who's challenged things.

444
00:25:32.339 --> 00:25:36.119
Um, and having him have opinions about our cue.

445
00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:37.740
Like all of that stuff, I think, is really good.

446
00:25:37.799 --> 00:26:00.599
What I appreciate about the desert landscape, apart from the fact that they are outside, which is always refreshing on Voyager, is they do really try to stress that actually it's a bit of a curse, being able to do whatever you want, and it's really fucking boring. you know, once you've been the scarecrow and read the paper and all of that, you know, it's very literal.

447
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:03.960
But on Star Trek, usually they just tell us the metaphor.

448
00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:04.980
They don't show us.

449
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:05.940
It's quite nice.

450
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.619
I don't think they're successful with it.

451
00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:12.119
And we'll get there when we get there.

452
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:19.200
But basically, my contention is you only live one moment at a time, like all the other moments recede into the past.

453
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:21.660
And so being immortal.

454
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:24.960
I'm not sure why that's bad.

455
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:30.359
Because like, you're never present when you're not there.

456
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:31.859
Do you know what I mean?

457
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.500
Your entire experience is you're there.

458
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:47.039
Like, you know, I can imagine getting bored, like, you're old and sick and you have no friends left and like, and that would be why you might be tired of life.

459
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.740
But like, why would you get tired of life?

460
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:50.339
otherwise?

461
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:51.599
I just don't get it.

462
00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:59.819
You know, and there's a great speech at the end here, which I think is really beautiful, but I just don't buy automatically that immortality is a curse.

463
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.180
I think mortality is a curse and death is a curse.

464
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:12.539
I don't think immortality is, and I don't buy that, uh, it's death that gives us purpose or, that is such a shitty.

465
00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:14.160
It's so bad.

466
00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:21.660
This, this, this, 1st all, it's certainly not the 1st and it won't be the last time I'll disagree with you, but I'm 44 years in and I'm already.

467
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:23.279
I've had enough.

468
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:26.099
The only thing that gets me through is doing this with you, frankly.

469
00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:28.980
We don't have to stop doing this.

470
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.420
We haven't stopped.

471
00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.160
Stop, stop, stop.

472
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.640
Stop, stop, stop.

473
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.759
Oh, yeah, yeah.

474
00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:39.960
Yeah, it is terrible.

475
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:46.920
But this is not, see, I like this and I like it when the other rando people come into the court case.

476
00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:50.759
It just makes it a bit more interesting than just being in this room.

477
00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:54.960
So yeah, but it is a terrible set, isn't it?

478
00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:55.920
It's a really bad room.

479
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:59.940
It's typical... sort of gun metal gray, isn't it?

480
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.480
Well, no, it's sort of green and brown and stuff.

481
00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:07.380
It looks like he's got jaundice with that lipstick on, doesn't he?

482
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.880
It is a thing that he does have, though, in Encounter at Far Point.

483
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:16.019
I don't know why they've decided to give it to him here, but, you know, he's odd.

484
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:23.819
Oh, now that's on the nose when he says it suicide is the actions for a mentally unbalanced person.

485
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.339
That line just would not exist now. you're right.

486
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.660
No, no.

487
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.599
And so here's the problem too.

488
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:52.200
I don't understand why this asylum thing is about his desire to kill himself because once we decide that he's being oppressed and imprisoned and prevented from, You know, like he's being imprisoned, he can't do anything.

489
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:56.099
He's not free to act, and he asks for asylum.

490
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.880
Why are they asking what he's going to do with the asylum?

491
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.220
Do you know what I mean?

492
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.180
It's none of their business.

493
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:07.799
And like I just don't understand why that even comes into consideration here.

494
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:16.319
But the suicidal act is less, it is less about him being bored, isn't it, and more about shaking up the continuum?

495
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:18.599
That's the reason he wants to do it.

496
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:20.640
It's like a revolutionary act.

497
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:22.200
That's right.

498
00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:25.079
And so it's the state making him live.

499
00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:26.460
Do you know what I mean?

500
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.319
And it's put in those terms, isn't it?

501
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:35.519
And he, so he wants asylum because he's oppressed politically, and that's really the only question.

502
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:40.019
Like, I don't know why why she has to have an opinion about what he does next.

503
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:47.099
Well, and how any of this will be relevant to what a human being rules that one of the queue continuum can have asylum.

504
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.500
Like, why would they take that seriously anyway?

505
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:50.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

506
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:51.059
Yeah.

507
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:51.720
Yes.

508
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.960
And what's the capital punishment thing?

509
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.920
How do we know that the Q, um, do capital punishment?

510
00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:00.059
Has that been established?

511
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:01.500
Don't think so.

512
00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:05.220
Oh, I don't I don't think so.

513
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.099
I don't know, because we haven't seen enough Q, have we?

514
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.920
Oh, here we go.

515
00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:15.180
This is where they're talking about Q being disciplined in the past for an appropriate behaviour.

516
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.960
Social anarchy versus order, he says.

517
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.259
Yeah, yeah.

518
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.619
So that's not explicit.

519
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:36.539
And when you watch it, you think, oh, maybe we're talking about Deja Q. Um, and it, and we don't see a queue who is reined back in.

520
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:37.980
In fact, it's very unclear.

521
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.140
Like, I don't think the cue are very well defined at all.

522
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:40.980
Do you know what I mean?

523
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.180
Why are they putting us on trial in episode one and in the final episode at all?

524
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.200
I don't know.

525
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:47.339
Do you know what I mean?

526
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:48.359
He's cue acting on his own.

527
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:49.500
He seems to be in trouble.

528
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:49.859
Why?

529
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.940
He's trying to say something about us, but missing the mark, but I'm mild.

530
00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:06.420
Well, yeah, I mean, it's the trial in Encounter at Farpoint is mirroring the kind of experience of watching it, which is, is this show going to be any good?

531
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.619
Do you know what I mean?

532
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:14.039
Is this version of humanity, something that we want to spend time watching a TV show about?

533
00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:15.059
Do you know what I mean?

534
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.259
Like, that's what's happening.

535
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:16.980
Oh, here we go.

536
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:18.660
So this is weird.

537
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:20.819
It's so weird.

538
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.119
Hey, weren't you the guy with the truck?

539
00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:27.779
So Riger is here.

540
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:38.640
Now, he has been on, so Frakes has been on DS9, not as Thomas Riker, as Thomas Riker.

541
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.640
He's obviously an enterprise in the final episode of Enterprise.

542
00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:42.900
He's in P...

543
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:43.319
God.

544
00:31:43.380 --> 00:31:45.960
He's been in lower decks.

545
00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:52.079
So he's done quite a few Star Treks, but here he is in...

546
00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:55.380
In generations, he's in an original series. technically.

547
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:57.359
I suppose.

548
00:31:57.420 --> 00:31:58.440
Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

549
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:02.700
So this, this, this is super weird.

550
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:04.380
Like who the fuck is this guy?

551
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.599
So this is Maury Ginsburg?

552
00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:10.079
And he's playing a character called Maury Ginsberg.

553
00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.000
They've kind of gone, wow, you've got a weird name.

554
00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:13.440
We'll just name your character that.

555
00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:19.680
He's clearly not that Maury Ginsberg because this Maury Ginsberg, He was not born in 1970.

556
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:22.380
And it, do you know what I mean?

557
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:25.500
I feel a bit about the groovy chick with the red hair.

558
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:49.259
So, I think what's really funny about that is he, this is about them going to Woodstock, and if it hadn't been for Q, Woodstock wouldn't have happened because he wouldn't have noticed the thing, and he wouldn't have met the beautiful girl with the red hair, with whom he settles down in order to become an orthodontist, a small town.

559
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:51.599
It's just like, I don't quite know what's happening here.

560
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:53.819
But he's kind of like a normal guy.

561
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:59.339
I think they're just trying to find sort of offbeat ways of showing, aren't they, of how the queue is affected.

562
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:01.200
He's affecting physics.

563
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:03.900
He's affected people's lives in intimate ways.

564
00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:08.700
And of course, he gave us Tom, Tom Riker, Will Riker, you know.

565
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:09.900
Both, really.

566
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.420
And had a profound effect on our lives. and save humanity from the Borg.

567
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.160
That's the other thing that they say as well.

568
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.819
So, you know, Reich is important for that reason.

569
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:27.000
Um, Yeah, it's, I mean, the Q also introduced us syllable.

570
00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:27.599
So, you know.

571
00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:28.859
Yes, that's right.

572
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.240
They were just all paying a day.

573
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:31.380
Well, this Q did that.

574
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.579
But making sure that Woodstock happens, I think, is kind of adorable.

575
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:36.960
Like, I'm here for that.

576
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:38.460
It's a bit of a problem though, isn't it?

577
00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:45.119
Like what you said there about the consistency of the queue over time, I think the different creatives had a different vision of who it was.

578
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:46.259
And we talked about it before.

579
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:53.039
Maurice Hurley saw Q is a bit sinister and sort of pushing humanity into dangerous spaces like in Q-Hoo.

580
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:53.640
He wrote that one.

581
00:33:53.700 --> 00:34:03.359
But then Michael Piller came in and said, no, let's use him to sort of mirror against data and say something about our characters and use the omnipotence that way.

582
00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:05.700
Pillar writes this script as well.

583
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:12.960
Sorry, I just noticed the composition of that shot, which left a big, big gap in the corner so that the photograph could appear.

584
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.219
Once you start spying in, you can't miss it.

585
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.500
I've ruined it for me from now on.

586
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.019
Then, towards the end of Voyage.

587
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:27.179
They don't really know what to do, Q. So they bring in Delancey's son and try and do like very silly episodes.

588
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:29.219
And then in Kursman trick.

589
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:36.179
They try and do something very profoundly moving as a character drama between him and Picard.

590
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:42.239
So it's quite different across, it's interesting to see the changes, but you're right.

591
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:44.579
There is no sort of, there's no through line.

592
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.780
No.

593
00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:56.639
And, like, in a way, I don't mind that because there's just this episode, and I think this episode has a great little character arc for John Delancey, and, like I said, gives the cure shape, gives them a history.

594
00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:03.420
Um, I don't know why Isaac Newton dies in a, in a Liverpool dentist prison.

595
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:07.559
Why does every showing this...?

596
00:35:07.619 --> 00:35:09.360
Why the apple fell out of the tree?

597
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:10.139
Have you noticed that?

598
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:13.619
All these genre shows try to explain how that happened.

599
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.780
Yeah, Doctor Who just fell.

600
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.159
Oh, dear.

601
00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:25.800
But, you know, these characters are a bit, they're a bit more fun than our usual boy in regular, so happy days.

602
00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:26.699
Yeah, yeah.

603
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:36.300
Actually, I think Maury Ginsberg's pretty hilariously sweet. how's a hippie going to Woodstock and then he becomes an orthodontist with chill for children.

604
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:43.440
What I love is Janeway going, I want you to imagine, gentlemen, that you've been beamed 300 years into the future.

605
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.760
And she goes, you're having a weird dream.

606
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.000
Shit, that's not working.

607
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:53.940
Oh, don't worry, none of you gonna remember this anyway.

608
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:54.900
Yeah.

609
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:56.639
Oh, dear.

610
00:35:56.699 --> 00:36:06.179
I do wonder sometimes if this was later, Voyager, Mulgrew would be a bit more relaxed and having a bit more fun with this.

611
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.440
He's very serious.

612
00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:12.960
I know it's a serious topic, but she did relax a lot, sort of around 4 and five.

613
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:14.340
Yeah, yeah.

614
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:21.300
That might have been good And if they're just kind of like not...

615
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:27.480
To be honest with you, I can't see any difference between this and stock case set number 68, if I'm honest.

616
00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:29.460
No, it's got a bit of perspects.

617
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:34.019
There's certainly there's certainly the back wall of stock tapes at one there.

618
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.239
There we go back here.

619
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:38.699
It doesn't look too tough, does it?

620
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.239
No, no, it doesn't look good.

621
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:43.619
Mind you, neither does that desert.

622
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:52.199
Do you know, I was just thinking about that desert and maybe if this was a Kurtzman crew, Obviously they do it. they visualise it in a way that the crew will understand.

623
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:57.539
Well, because this crew is so boring, that that's all they could possibly imagine.

624
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.900
But if it was a Kursman crew. might be something visually arresting.

625
00:37:01.139 --> 00:37:19.320
Well, I just think the problem with it is it thinks it's cleverer than it actually is, and in a way, it doesn't sell, it doesn't sell the, we've done everything now and we're just bored.

626
00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:21.360
Like we are definitely bored.

627
00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:24.119
Um, I don't know.

628
00:37:24.179 --> 00:37:24.960
I don't know.

629
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:26.340
I don't know.

630
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.739
I remember when I 1st watched it and I I did.

631
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:33.719
I remember thinking it was a smart way of just selling how tedious.

632
00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:34.380
It would be.

633
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:36.420
Yeah, to be able to do whatever you want.

634
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.380
I think it's Delancey's line of, oh, we've all been the scarecrow.

635
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:42.480
I love that line.

636
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:45.719
I love that we've all been the scarecrow line.

637
00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:47.699
I mean, just to get out in the sunshine.

638
00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:49.860
Five minutes.

639
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:50.219
Yeah.

640
00:37:50.219 --> 00:37:53.340
Yes.

641
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.480
Yeah, you see, like, I think they even do a crane shot, you know.

642
00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:59.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

643
00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:05.639
So, so it is, I actually like how quickly they decide to just go, yeah, screw it, let's do that.

644
00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:10.260
You know, like, uh, let's show them the continuum.

645
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:11.820
Let's take some people here.

646
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:16.079
Um, Oh, there's just that one.

647
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:17.519
Yeah, well, this is a good scene.

648
00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:17.820
Yeah.

649
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:18.719
Yeah.

650
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:24.659
And this is like, you know, you know what we said about, um, no, his track being a lot of talk.

651
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:32.400
This is the sort of scenes where it works, where you just have 2 good characters like sharing or bonding or come into a realisation.

652
00:38:32.460 --> 00:38:35.579
This is what Knight is Trek done, does really well when it's well written.

653
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:44.099
So, again, you know, we're kind of making it an odd choice.

654
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.280
Like, it's not his call.

655
00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:48.539
Do you know what I mean?

656
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:55.679
And like, I understand why you don't want someone to make the decision to end their life, you know, like, and you want to stop people from doing that. of course you do.

657
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:58.679
You save a life, you know, if you can.

658
00:38:58.739 --> 00:39:03.300
But, I don't know, like you can't, I don't know.

659
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:04.019
I don't know.

660
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.780
I just think there's something uncomfortable about it all.

661
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:12.960
It's such a nonsense, moral dilemma, because it just, how do we compare this to our lives?

662
00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:16.019
When would we ever be in a position where it's either prison or suicide?

663
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.900
You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

664
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:26.880
And it doesn't, so it is sort of trying to touch because we've got him saying that elderly and infirm Vulcans end their lives.

665
00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:30.360
Which I do that, okay.

666
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.639
No, I don't know, but it sounds like the sort of logical thing that they would do.

667
00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:42.840
But, um, I don't know.

668
00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:46.800
I mean, you can see YQ would be beguiled by Captain Janeway, can't you?

669
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:52.079
Yeah, I'm just, I'm super put off by this.

670
00:39:52.139 --> 00:39:54.599
Although she seems to be winning in this scene.

671
00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:57.420
She seems to be having more fun than him.

672
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.219
And you introduced us to the book.

673
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:00.420
Thank you very much.

674
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

675
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.179
Uncovered my one redeeming virtue.

676
00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:08.760
Are we caught saying Kathy?

677
00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:10.380
Oh, I suppose he calls him Jean-Luc.

678
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.639
Like, maybe we're at times, maybe we're looking...

679
00:40:14.699 --> 00:40:15.900
No, no, no.

680
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:18.239
I think Colin Kathy or Kate is fine.

681
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:27.659
Um, uh, But it's the, it's the sexism thing. turning up in her bed. it's calling her Madam Captain.

682
00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:31.739
It's the particular stuff where it's because she's a woman.

683
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.519
I mean, he didn't go on Deep Shace 9 and talk about how Cisco was black.

684
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:39.719
And thank God because that would be now rich. have the big fisticuffs.

685
00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:46.139
Yeah, it's a bit awkward. isn't it And it is like, it's like we're not comfortable.

686
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:50.039
Like, what's the 1st thing that he's going to notice about the ship?

687
00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:51.239
Oh, it's a woman in charge.

688
00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:52.800
Look at Kate's reaction to that.

689
00:40:53.159 --> 00:41:00.539
This is just one of those rare moments that you talk about a lot where we're allowed to see what she's thinking just by her acting.

690
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:03.539
She doesn't explicitly say a word.

691
00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:15.360
Which is so wonderful. then she looks back to the window. she's gone too. it's beautiful So good. she was hired, right?

692
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:16.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

693
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:17.460
Yeah.

694
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:18.659
And that's what I like.

695
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.059
I think she gets another one of those in here too.

696
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:31.320
And I do, I do think the way they, you know, they, they write um, the, the result of the hearings in very considered ways.

697
00:41:31.380 --> 00:41:35.099
But she just delivers it in a beautiful way.

698
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:36.420
Yeah.

699
00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:37.019
Yeah.

700
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:38.699
That's why she was hired as well.

701
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.760
Someone that can make something of this terrible dialogue.

702
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:47.099
But I just love how they just quickly, he just quickly whispers.

703
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:49.559
We get Kate and he goes, yep, okay, fine.

704
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:51.239
We're doing that.

705
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:53.400
And look at him.

706
00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:59.760
Look at his look, like, um, like Q2 is doing a sort of little comedy smug thing.

707
00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:02.099
Like he's still playing at camp.

708
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:03.900
He's still being a bit silly.

709
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:06.780
It is another of what I was talking about.

710
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:07.380
Oh, hang on.

711
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:19.860
I just want to I just want to look at this very nice shot because I said to you the other day when we were talking about state of flux about how it was all sort of location work for TV and a lot of this is, but there is a very nice establishing shot in a second.

712
00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:23.159
Which is just a green shot?

713
00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:23.579
Yeah.

714
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.719
Well, you just see the, yeah, the vastness of the location.

715
00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:28.980
Yeah, there we go.

716
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:30.059
That's very nice.

717
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:32.400
And boy, just breath in the air for a second.

718
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.320
Space.

719
00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:38.519
But you see, this infinity never closes, a clock with no hands.

720
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.440
Like, it's just not all that clever.

721
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:41.039
What he reading?

722
00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:45.360
The old book, the new...

723
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.760
So nothing, you know.

724
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:50.280
The pinball machine that says galaxy.

725
00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:53.039
They're playing what's that called?

726
00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:53.880
What they're playing?

727
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:55.860
Croquet with planets.

728
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:57.360
There's the dog.

729
00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:00.300
Have we have all tried being the dog as well?

730
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.880
You get to be the dog.

731
00:43:05.219 --> 00:43:11.519
Yeah, like I just... in that sort of disquieting way that they did in caretaker.

732
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:12.780
Do you remember when they went to the ranch?

733
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:14.940
Well, that's the other thing too.

734
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:16.019
They're just doing this.

735
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:16.980
Do you know what I mean?

736
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.880
St.

737
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.280
Rog, that's why I don't know that. that's right.

738
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:22.440
No, no, but do you know what I mean?

739
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.739
It's like, this is how we do giant alien entities.

740
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:26.820
Do you know what I mean?

741
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.239
We just make it the American...

742
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:31.679
What's the cheapest way we can do?

743
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:33.780
Infinity?

744
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:35.820
He goes, well, it would just find a rose.

745
00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:38.639
And then we could say the rose just goes round in a circle.

746
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:46.800
Yeah, like I just didn't like what?

747
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:47.219
I don't know.

748
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:54.599
I just like looking at Delancey's choices here where he's really considering what the other queue is saying and he knows he's got a point.

749
00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:57.599
Even though he's saying all the right things.

750
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:03.659
I don't know. often Delazi is just used for comedy.

751
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:07.019
I think he's given something a bit more substantial here.

752
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:13.800
But like this is kind of nothing, you know, like they're all just standing around reading.

753
00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:16.679
They smile, but it's a fake smile because they have to smile.

754
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.460
Like, I don't think it tells us anything and I don't think it's visually arresting.

755
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:23.039
I think it's a bit nothing.

756
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:34.320
And given how rare any location work is in Voyager, we're inclined to give it a pass, but I do think it is pretty unimaginative.

757
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:39.420
Thank you so much for going outside. we'll take anything That's right.

758
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.400
I think that's absolutely it.

759
00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:58.199
But the, the, the character line through this of cue, our cue, um, having a profound impact on the other cue, and now at the end of this episode, he has a profound effect, that's just a lovely, that's a lovely new journey.

760
00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:00.539
Yeah, I think that's I think that is pretty good.

761
00:45:00.659 --> 00:45:01.860
And you know what?

762
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.800
It does lean into what I was talking about last week with lower decks.

763
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:08.639
Remember I was talking about, you know, doing episodes away from our regular characters being more interesting.

764
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:11.760
Yeah, that's what's happening here.

765
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:13.800
The big 3 line is these two.

766
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:16.860
I'm a born again Q, he says, that life's behind me.

767
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:21.059
Yeah, and like we've not seen any evidence of that.

768
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:28.320
But I mean, he has been sent here to kind of get Q. Do you know what I mean to stop you from doing whatever it is doing?

769
00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:34.260
And I think these 2 performances have to be so on point for the, for this relationship to work.

770
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.219
The way he just looked at him there where he said, you really inspired me.

771
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:39.480
You know, you believe him.

772
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:41.159
Yeah.

773
00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:45.420
And the stuff about amusement as well, because there's no amusement left.

774
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:48.119
Um, yes.

775
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:51.780
We paid the price by forcing you to stop.

776
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:53.099
Yeah.

777
00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:53.820
Yeah.

778
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:56.039
So, like...

779
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.920
I I think...

780
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:00.119
I don't understand your problem with this.

781
00:46:00.179 --> 00:46:00.539
I do.

782
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:01.199
Yeah.

783
00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:04.860
It's not really, it's not really saying anything.

784
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:11.039
It's saying something about this weird makeup race, you know, that's sort of beyond our understanding.

785
00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:22.380
Except, though, it does say something about the impact of sort of non-conformity and rebellion against a status quo and stuff like that.

786
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.019
You know, that he is a rebel.

787
00:46:25.139 --> 00:46:31.920
Um, you know, he's he's challenging orthodoxies and inspiring people to do something different.

788
00:46:33.059 --> 00:46:35.880
Oh, even the magazines are boring.

789
00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.739
Do you remember that fabulous magazine last week?

790
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.360
in the TOA?

791
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:40.079
yeah.

792
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:42.239
It's so much better a week before.

793
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:44.639
What's happened to Star Trek in 30 years?

794
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:48.840
Exactly. much, much worse magazine game, certainly.

795
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:58.619
But yeah, so it does become about political oppression and in a way.

796
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:12.840
The thing that should convince Janeway is that he has a right to, um, behave in a way that, you know, the state doesn't want him to behave.

797
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:16.800
He's a political prisoner, and so he deserves asylum on that basis.

798
00:47:16.860 --> 00:47:18.599
And I think that's kind of where we go, isn't it?

799
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:32.219
Yeah, although you're right, it is so obsessed with the sort of suicide theme that her entire wrap-up is about that, about the outside, he's going to do rather than, you know, just giving him free will.

800
00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:42.539
Yeah, that's right, because he's a, you know, an agent who's oppressed by his government and um, he has the right to be free, you know.

801
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:48.000
Um, And so the death thing is incidental in a way.

802
00:47:48.059 --> 00:47:52.559
I mean, the reason that death is the form that it takes is because these people are immortal.

803
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:56.340
And it's just doing something different.

804
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.079
Yeah, yeah.

805
00:47:58.139 --> 00:47:58.739
Yeah.

806
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:02.159
But disease is immortality is what he says.

807
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.320
Yeah, you see, I mean, I don't quite get it.

808
00:48:04.380 --> 00:48:17.880
I think perhaps, you know, the one show that sells that to me more than any other, I guess, is the good place at the end, where we discover that immortality, because they don't need anything.

809
00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:24.719
They just end up getting dumber and stuff because there's nothing to strive for and stuff.

810
00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:38.639
And I think that does a better job of selling it than just we're all standing around a house being bored and not talking to one another, and then just having, having Q explain the situation to us.

811
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:45.900
And whilst I did find his suicide at the end of the episode moving just because of how it was played.

812
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:53.880
The choices that the characters made in the last episode of The Good Place had me in like Fits of Tears.

813
00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:56.039
I'm in tears for the entire episode.

814
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:57.360
The difference between the 2 shows.

815
00:48:57.420 --> 00:48:57.960
Yeah, you know.

816
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.900
Oh, God, this is a scene I really hate.

817
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:03.300
Why does he look like Scrooge?

818
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:08.219
Well, I think it's to try and take the edge off of it to make it more comical.

819
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:08.940
Do you know what I mean?

820
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:18.420
Like, he's wearing a sort of, yeah, like, you know, like a Victorian kind of night dress and stuff like that in order to make it sillier.

821
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.059
Fabulous velvet nightcount though, doesn't she?

822
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:22.380
No, it's Saturn.

823
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:22.920
Look out.

824
00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:24.000
It's beautiful.

825
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:27.420
Do you have one, Nathan?

826
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:29.219
No, no.

827
00:49:29.219 --> 00:49:31.800
You smoke your pipe in the evening.

828
00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:37.019
She looks awesome and her hair looks fantastic.

829
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:38.820
I don't get this.

830
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:46.260
I don't get at all why Q would be interested romantically in a human being.

831
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.579
I just don't.

832
00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:49.800
And I don't know why it's here. isn't.

833
00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:51.480
Yeah, yeah.

834
00:49:51.539 --> 00:49:52.860
Well, that's what he's doing, right?

835
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:53.880
He's making a part.

836
00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:54.480
Yeah.

837
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.579
But it's me, and you see, it's me, and it... then he says.

838
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:00.360
Forget Mark.

839
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:02.940
I'll show you a good girl time.

840
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:04.679
Oh, it's just weird.

841
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:05.579
Yeah, yeah.

842
00:50:05.579 --> 00:50:07.619
And it muddies the whole episode as well.

843
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:14.760
Yeah, but I mean, what he's trying to seduce her with is a return home.

844
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.460
Why does he feel close to her, though?

845
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:18.119
I don't understand.

846
00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:19.920
What's been established?

847
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:30.000
Yeah, and we know that he's had a, he has relationships with human women, and this, you managed to preserve your femininity so well is so full, isn't it?

848
00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:32.579
And she just walks over to him and says, Lee.

849
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.599
Which is absolutely the right response.

850
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:49.199
Like, she's really, really good, but that's a really, like, it's just, you managed to preserve your femininity and yet maintain authority or something like that. as if that was in any doubt.

851
00:50:49.260 --> 00:50:51.480
Yeah, with any public work.

852
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.219
That's just stupid.

853
00:50:53.219 --> 00:50:57.960
I know plenty of men in authoritative positions that manage to maintain their femininity, all right?

854
00:50:58.019 --> 00:50:59.159
Yes, good for them.

855
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:13.199
I did work with someone who objected to the fact that the ladies were allowed to wear skirts in the summer and the men still had to, so he wore a skirt.

856
00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:14.579
Good for you.

857
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:15.360
Excellent.

858
00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:16.199
Brilliant.

859
00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:19.679
Yes.

860
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:21.059
So again, you're right.

861
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:23.280
This speech is all about the suicide, isn't?

862
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:28.260
And she should just be granting asylum.

863
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:40.199
I think that, I mean, this bit slightly interesting where she says, I have to consider the impact that's going to have on the continuum, and it's going to change a society, but she kind of says, actually, you just need to get over that.

864
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:41.159
That's some.

865
00:51:41.219 --> 00:51:42.539
The prime directive apply here.

866
00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:44.579
I know they're a higher rate.

867
00:51:44.820 --> 00:51:47.159
They're not warp, they're warp capable.

868
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:49.559
Is it just not?

869
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.179
This is the important thing.

870
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:52.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

871
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:52.440
Yeah.

872
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:57.300
They can't come in and kind of start pretending to be the Archangel Gabriel and stuff.

873
00:51:57.420 --> 00:52:08.820
But she can make a decision where, and we've already established that the 2nd cue making a wrong call led to a 100 years war between the Romulans and the Klingons or something like that.

874
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:15.179
So she can make these decisions which allow him to make that decision that could cause catastrophic effects.

875
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:15.960
And that's okay.

876
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:19.260
Well, again, you know, like, what are you going to do?

877
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.179
Anything could happen as a result of anything.

878
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:22.380
You can't just sit there and do nothing.

879
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.179
I think she's doing the right thing.

880
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:26.760
I've used ours, I come on one time.

881
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:34.860
Um Yes, so...

882
00:52:34.860 --> 00:52:38.760
Do we know at this point that he is going to assist in the suicide?

883
00:52:38.820 --> 00:52:39.900
I don't think we do, do we?

884
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:40.980
No, we don't.

885
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:43.440
I think the seeds have definitely been so I don't think he knows.

886
00:52:43.500 --> 00:52:48.780
Because DeLancey played that scene in the desert like he was truly considering what was being said.

887
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:49.800
Yeah.

888
00:52:49.860 --> 00:52:50.579
Yeah.

889
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Look at Janeway's face.

890
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:56.579
Oh, this speech, I think, is really good.

891
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.960
This actually really properly moved me this speech.

892
00:53:01.019 --> 00:53:05.880
Um, because that's what I think too.

893
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:08.159
This.

894
00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.380
She says, I like this life.

895
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:14.280
You know, the mysteries of mortal life.

896
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:15.599
This is all new to you.

897
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:18.840
We saw it in Hugh Hugh, from pleasures you've never felt before.

898
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:20.099
I like this life.

899
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:21.239
You look at her.

900
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:29.099
It's beautiful and like that appeal is too easy and and obviously it's not going to take, but I really love that it got made.

901
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:33.239
Yeah, I mean, we would buy it if we weren't in this dreary room.

902
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:34.500
I like this life.

903
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:35.579
Are you sure?

904
00:53:36.179 --> 00:53:38.400
Anomaly of the week.

905
00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:39.599
Yeah, riveting stuff.

906
00:53:39.659 --> 00:53:43.739
But that is a good, that, like, that's what I was thinking.

907
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:45.840
I was thinking now it's new.

908
00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:47.159
Like, yes, I'm mortal.

909
00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:53.400
And look how just a few weeks ago we saw Q respond to that change.

910
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:54.780
Do you know what I mean?

911
00:53:54.840 --> 00:54:00.480
With eating chocolate sundaes and stuff and, you know, experiencing hunger and everything.

912
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:01.980
He's a fun character.

913
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:04.139
Had they chosen to keep him on the ship?

914
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:05.639
It might been really great.

915
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:07.380
A queue.

916
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:11.519
Yeah, I think it's a bit quick that we just go to the establish next shot.

917
00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:13.079
Oh, he's in sick pain.

918
00:54:13.139 --> 00:54:13.739
They have to.

919
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:17.280
Now, we get a dialogue thing of how we're going to use him.

920
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:21.179
Because we only have 2 minutes and 59 seconds to go, you know?

921
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:22.260
Yeah.

922
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:28.500
Could we not just one time have had, you know, the doctor did not manage to repair him with his usual skill?

923
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.539
He is in fact dying.

924
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:33.420
So, but this is clever though, isn't it?

925
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.659
Because, like, there's hemlock of some kind.

926
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:39.179
This is my final gift to my people.

927
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:43.019
I'll tell them that those were my last words because that was nearly his last words.

928
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:45.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty good.

929
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:52.139
And even the fact, even when he dies before he gets his last word out, it's just so well played this soon.

930
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:55.139
And her holding his hand as well, I like.

931
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:56.579
And I look at her.

932
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.820
She's very tactile with people in this show, isn't she?

933
00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:01.139
Yeah, and I like it.

934
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:04.260
Oh, the doctor's made his contractual appearance.

935
00:55:04.380 --> 00:55:04.800
Well done.

936
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:07.980
Yeah, there's the best Robert for just a few seconds.

937
00:55:08.099 --> 00:55:14.340
But the where did the hemlock come from which we weren't wondering or we might not have thought to wonder?

938
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.079
I've got it for him.

939
00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:17.280
Yeah, yeah.

940
00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:19.679
Yes, that's really good, isn't it?

941
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:21.239
Logical Chevok?

942
00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:22.019
don't think so.

943
00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:25.320
It is a nice sting, isn't it?

944
00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:27.300
Yeah I think it is pretty good.

945
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:28.800
That's not a bad ending.

946
00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:33.360
The trouble is, is where this leads is the unfortunate thing.

947
00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:35.880
It really does lead to...

948
00:55:35.940 --> 00:55:37.559
We only have 2 episodes left, don't we?

949
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:38.940
Of Q, yeah.

950
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the next one is genuinely.

951
00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:44.159
I do think this is one of the best voyro episodes.

952
00:55:44.219 --> 00:55:45.179
I think that's one of the worst.

953
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:46.559
Right okay.

954
00:55:46.619 --> 00:55:47.219
Okay.

955
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:51.000
Michael Peeler has left the building and Jerry Taylor is now right in the queue.

956
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:51.960
Right, okay.

957
00:55:52.019 --> 00:55:52.739
Right.

958
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:56.579
She was also on the list of 5 underrated things about Voyager.

959
00:55:56.820 --> 00:56:00.719
I was hurling furniture around the room for that point.

960
00:56:01.739 --> 00:56:05.519
Janeway, look, she looks, looks off camera.

961
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:08.219
Oh, we've all learned something this week, haven't we?

962
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:12.900
Cue the great. off we go Let us never speak of this again.

963
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:27.719
But I do, I do think they could have just done like a comedy cue Voyager episode and instead they chose to do a character drama and they did try to engage with a serious topic and I do appreciate that.

964
00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:29.400
No, I agree.

965
00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:29.940
I agree.

966
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:30.840
I agree.

967
00:56:30.900 --> 00:56:34.139
I just don't think it's super successful, I guess.

968
00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:42.119
And although maybe the 1st time I saw it, I did like the depiction of the Q continuum.

969
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:44.579
Um, I think it's a bit thin.

970
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.139
Now.

971
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:48.780
What I love about this period of orbit.

972
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:51.360
There's just a 2nd half of that 2nd season.

973
00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:55.199
It is pretty much one banger after another.

974
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.179
They really pulled their socks up.

975
00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:59.159
We've covered a couple of them, haven't we?

976
00:56:59.219 --> 00:57:01.559
We've done alliances, resolutions.

977
00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:05.159
But there's tons that we still haven't done yet.

978
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:09.059
The Thor, Deadlock, Mailed.

979
00:57:09.179 --> 00:57:14.159
You know, they basically, they were told this show is not delivering.

980
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:15.900
You really do need to start doing this.

981
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:22.139
And I think this is another good example of the different hats that they're trying on at this point.

982
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:28.500
Yeah, it's still one of my favourite runs, Voyager, and I wasn't disappointed by this.

983
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:38.880
I do understand your reasons because I don't think it's entirely clear about what it's trying to say except about the 2 Q characters.

984
00:57:38.940 --> 00:57:41.280
There it's, it's, it's very focussed.

985
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:46.139
I think what it does with the cue is something that we haven't seen before and I like it a lot.

986
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:47.820
It does give them shape.

987
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:57.119
It makes them a bit more interesting without ruining anything, and I think that's some, you know, something that could easily have been done badly, and I'm glad they attempted it.

988
00:57:57.179 --> 00:58:03.840
If you're going to bring Hugh back, make him do something that we haven't seen him do before, and they definitely achieve that here.

989
00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:07.019
Don't trade off past glories add.

990
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:08.340
Add to the myth.

991
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.980
But then they do try that again in the next one.

992
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:24.480
They do something different, and that is that civil war, and they just do it in a very literal way with the Voyager crew as civil war characters and cannons going off and it's just really awful.

993
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:33.059
But they do bring along Susie Paxson as Susie Q. And she does have the masterful line. cute.

994
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:48.300
Q is he's brought Janeway's dog and the puppies to the ship from earth to please her and she beams in and goes, get your hands off that dog. and then she goes, I'm not talking about the puppies.

995
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:50.039
Oh my god.

996
00:58:50.099 --> 00:58:51.539
Oh I love him.

997
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:54.599
Oh, yeah, voyager humour. did talk about that earlier.

998
00:58:54.659 --> 00:58:55.920
Yeah, terrible.

999
00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:59.099
Well, I'll say this about Death Wish.

1000
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:01.260
There are worst episodes of Star Trek Borja.

1001
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.500
That is absolutely undeniably true.

1002
00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:19.800
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to find out where we're going next time.

1003
00:59:19.860 --> 00:59:27.239
This was my choice, the usual middling choice you've come to associate with me.

1004
00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:28.320
Yes, my house.

1005
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:32.820
Me in control of the randomiser.

1006
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:33.900
But it's your turn.

1007
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:36.960
So it's your job to come up with something good.

1008
00:59:37.019 --> 00:59:38.940
Where are we going?

1009
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:54.960
Well, let's move away from the problematic Voyager to probably the more problematic Star Trek, the next generation, only, because that is the 90s trek where that we've covered the least, and there's a lot of it.

1010
00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:55.920
Apparently so.

1011
00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:57.659
Yeah, it's 3rd from bottom.

1012
00:59:57.719 --> 00:59:59.280
Wow, okay.

1013
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:05.340
Of all the series. because they keep choosing Enterprise to kind of make up the balance.

1014
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.800
Do not throw up a series 7 episode, all right?

1015
01:00:07.860 --> 01:00:09.000
We've done too many of those.

1016
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:11.159
All right.

1017
01:00:11.219 --> 01:00:11.820
Okay.

1018
01:00:11.880 --> 01:00:13.500
And they're never good.

1019
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:17.280
Right. here we go Oh my god, I don't believe it.

1020
01:00:17.340 --> 01:00:19.139
Season seven, episode six.

1021
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:20.519
No, I'm pressing it again anyway.

1022
01:00:20.579 --> 01:00:21.960
Oh, wait, what is it though?

1023
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:23.039
It was Phantasms.

1024
01:00:23.099 --> 01:00:25.079
Councillor Troy is a birthday cake.

1025
01:00:25.139 --> 01:00:25.679
That's all right.

1026
01:00:25.739 --> 01:00:27.179
Okay, here we go.

1027
01:00:27.179 --> 01:00:28.380
With mint frosting.

1028
01:00:28.980 --> 01:00:30.599
Oh, no.

1029
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:32.340
This could almost be perfect.

1030
01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:35.280
Season six. episode nine.

1031
01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:36.840
The quality of life.

1032
01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:41.460
Ah, yes.

1033
01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:43.980
After peanut hamper last week.

1034
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:45.960
What do you reckon?

1035
01:00:46.019 --> 01:00:49.860
Well, I mean, it very much is doing Star Trek Star Trek, isn't it?

1036
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:51.239
It's very Star Trek.

1037
01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:57.239
It's also, you know, TNG twee, which can be pretty terrible.

1038
01:00:57.300 --> 01:00:59.099
And it is a data episode.

1039
01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:00.420
And we haven't done too many of those.

1040
01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:01.380
Really?

1041
01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:03.599
Yeah, it's quite a good data episode, I think.

1042
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:06.420
Oh, I think that is a sound choice actually.

1043
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:07.260
Okay.

1044
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:07.679
All right.

1045
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:08.400
I'm up for that.

1046
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:10.920
Either way, let's be honest.

1047
01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:19.320
But, yeah, I think, for me, like, I was so on board with three, four, and five.

1048
01:01:19.380 --> 01:01:30.659
And so 6 is kind of the 1st time that I felt conscious that I was watching like completely new Star Trek because like when I started watching it, it was all sort of a bit of a mess and stuff like that.

1049
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:37.260
And so 6 is where I start noticing like different people's names, like different producers in the opening credits and stuff.

1050
01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:43.920
And I start to wonder whether this is really as good as it had been the past few years and I don't know.

1051
01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:48.059
Like, I have a very strong memory of that feeling, but I don't know whether it's justified or not.

1052
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:55.139
I've sort of come to the conclusion doing untitled Star Trek project that 3 and 4 are consistently very strong.

1053
01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:57.659
I think 5's a bit middling.

1054
01:01:57.719 --> 01:02:01.079
There's good episodes in there, but I think there's a lot of mid-in there as well.

1055
01:02:01.139 --> 01:02:05.639
And I think 6 is their sort of last rows of success.

1056
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:10.679
If you look at the episodes across, about two thirds of them are good to gray.

1057
01:02:10.739 --> 01:02:13.679
This probably falls just below great.

1058
01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:15.719
Um, and then seven.

1059
01:02:15.780 --> 01:02:16.260
Wow.

1060
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:17.280
I don't know what happened.

1061
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:20.760
Everyone's bored by that point. and they all want to be doing DS9 instead.

1062
01:02:20.820 --> 01:02:22.860
Yes, that sounds fun.

1063
01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:25.380
Well, let's discover the journey of the exacombs.

1064
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:26.880
Yeah, brilliant.

1065
01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:27.659
Okay.

1066
01:02:35.219 --> 01:02:40.139
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1067
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:46.260
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1068
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:51.659
Now, podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1069
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:57.960
This episode was recorded on the 17th of September 2024 and released on the 27th of September.

1070
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:02.699
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, the quality of life.

1071
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:22.380
Did you really were there?

1072
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:23.699
Yeah, yeah.

1073
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:25.500
Oh, it's me.

1074
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:26.820
It's your turn.

1075
01:03:28.139 --> 01:03:30.239
Oh no, what's this?

1076
01:03:30.300 --> 01:03:34.260
I've got a notification on untitled Star Trek.

1077
01:03:34.380 --> 01:03:36.539
Denise Crosby.

1078
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:41.460
It's so disheartening that I've received such insulting and disrespectful comments.

1079
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:43.380
What is she talking about?

1080
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.480
Maybe this could be the tag.

1081
01:03:45.539 --> 01:03:46.320
Let's find out.

1082
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:48.780
What is she talking about?

1083
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:49.679
Come on.

1084
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:56.880
By my post to invite curious and like-minded folks to a Zoom event, I'm taking part in.

1085
01:03:56.940 --> 01:04:01.019
No need to hate on a different opinion, taught less, listen more.

1086
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:02.760
Oh my god.

1087
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:04.199
She transphobic?

1088
01:04:04.260 --> 01:04:05.340
Oh god, let's have a look.

1089
01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:08.039
Oh God.

1090
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:15.420
Join me and these amazing women on October the 3rd to support Kamala Harris for president.

1091
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:16.619
Oh okay.

1092
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:19.800
That seems like the right thing to be doing.

1093
01:04:19.860 --> 01:04:21.119
Americans, yeah.

1094
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:22.199
Yeah.

1095
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:24.059
Well, she's on Twitter, isn't she?

1096
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:27.300
So, you sort of deserve everything. you get.

1097
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.039
No, I don't mean that.

1098
01:04:29.099 --> 01:04:32.340
I mean, that's the kind of reaction you're likely to get, isn't it?

1099
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:34.019
Like, that's why it's so awful.

1100
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:41.519
If you watch the discourse when our new strange new worlds or Discovery episode drops, yeah, it's vile.

1101
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:43.500
Yeah, terrible.

1102
01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:49.019
I mean, you can just watch the old stuff, you know, if that's what you want.

1103
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:55.679
If you want to watch, you know, good high quality sexist drama, put death wish on instead.

1104
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:01.860
Okay, let me.

1105
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:11.400
I think he made a sound point about the magazines. significantly worse, weren't they?

1106
01:05:11.460 --> 01:05:12.659
Yeah, yeah.

1107
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.659
Oh, Jason Rowe had a great magazine game, haven't we?

1108
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:16.380
Jupiter eight.

1109
01:05:16.500 --> 01:05:17.340
Jupiter eight.

1110
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:18.300
Yeah, yeah.

1111
01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:20.820
Okey-dokey.

1112
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:21.300
Right.

1113
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:21.780
Okay.

1114
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:23.579
Okay, okay, okay.

1115
01:05:23.639 --> 01:05:25.019
Hang on.

1116
01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:26.039
Clear all.

1117
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.239
Actually, hang on.

1118
01:05:33.300 --> 01:05:34.380
I want to look at the percentages.

1119
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:34.980
Give me a 2nd.

1120
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:39.300
Mm, I haven't looked at the percentages for ages.

1121
01:05:40.860 --> 01:05:43.320
I'm going to put that up.

1122
01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:48.179
That was fun when I realised that could just be part of the bill process is creating that.

1123
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:49.980
That's pretty good.

1124
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:54.300
Oh, Strange New Worlds at 4 episodes is at the top.

1125
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.159
What a shame.

1126
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:58.079
Okay, hang on.

1127
01:05:58.139 --> 01:05:59.219
We'll stand upon.

1128
01:05:59.280 --> 01:05:59.699
Okay.

1129
01:06:06.059 --> 01:06:07.800
Okay, yeah.

1130
01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:11.940
Okay.

1131
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:15.780
All right, it's the end of the episode.