Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back doing an episode that screened just less than 2
years ago, so some fairly recent Star Trek.
It's Lower Decks series 3, episode 7, a mathematically perfect
redemption.
And you were saying before, and I think maybe in last week's
episode that this is one of your favourite Kurtzman era, Trek
episodes.
A mathematically perfect episode of Star Trek, I would say.
Yeah, I think this is really unique.
I just love the fact it basically skews the regulars completely
and goes off, it tells this tale on the other side of the galaxy
with a Xacomp of all things.
Now, I don't really remember too much of the history of peanut
hamper.
Was she a regular character?
No, so she just turns up in series one, episode 10.
So the series finale, and we actually see the recap at the
beginning where she's asked to help against the Paclands, I
think.
And, um, uh, she refuses, she says actually, no, I'm not going to
help.
She sort of pizzes off.
And as a result, of course, Shacks is killed trying to save
Rutherford.
And Badgie is involved, I think.
So it's all very complicated.
We do get a recap of it.
She does the thing that always irritates me in Star Trek, and
there isn't a single like 90s trek show that isn't guilty of this
of where they go to, you know, a group of people, you know, you
can step away from this very dangerous situation if you want to
and everyone goes, oh, no, sir, I'll come with you into any
situation.
And I always say to you, don't I?
Why does nobody just go, do you know what?
I'm not going to do that, you know, like I'm not, and she, at the
beginning of this, just goes, yeah, I'm not going to do that.
She's going, it's my 1st day.
You know, like, it's literally my 1st day.
I'm not gonna go and sacrifice myself.
But she's so awful.
She's like, see you later, Lucy.
I was thinking they're all gonna die.
And then immediately I'm going, I'll preempt in the episode now
immediately, obviously, they're rescued by the Titan and Captain
Riker. and she's just left flying in space going, Hey, guys, you
know, come back.
And thus our adventure begins here.
Yeah.
And so it's it is pretty great.
It is on a sort of planet called Ariolus, and there are bird
people, but not the bird people that we've seen on Star Trek
before, more of which later I imagine.
And it's just a very kind of sweet and funny story.
And icky, which places.
Yeah, places.
Yeah, and absolutely undermined by the character of peanut
hamper.
So it's called a mathematically perfect redemption named after how
she gets her name.
She says in series one, episode 10, that it's her mathematically
perfect name.
She's calculated that the perfect name for her is peanut hamper.
Um, and it's not a redemption at all.
She's awful all the way through.
And we think she's growing to become a better person. and it's
completely undermined at the end and then undermined again.
So it is pretty great.
And where she ends up puts her in a great position for what is
something a little bit more like an actual redemption, which takes
place in season four, episode seven, an episode that screened just
a year ago called A Few Badgies More, which features her and
Agamus, who she meets in the final episode.
Jeffrey Coombs.
Yeah.
You and I could do very evil things together.
So good.
So he's not the only deep safe sign guest star this episode.
Did you notice?
I did notice the growly, snarly voice of J.G. Hertzler.
I didn't even look at the carces because they somehow managed to
draw that alien.
So he looks a bit like J.G. Herzler does now as an old man.
So he's the Dracmani captain, the scavenger.
And they're in the next episode, I think, with peanut hamper as
well.
Yes, yeah, so he's in it too.
It's a bit like sort of Robert O'Reilly.
You can't really mistake that voice, can you?
You're like, yeah.
This episode absolutely proves as well that Star Trek just needs
more cunts in it.
There's just not enough characters that are just really...
Awful people.
Gee, Rudbury seem to think that everyone should be, you know
morally light and lovely people going around the universe.
But actually, this proves, I was sort of thinking.
What other shows Star Trek shows have given us, you know, really
horrible people like this.
I'm thinking, well, maybe sometimes Garak could be a bit awful and
he was wonderful, right?
We loved him for it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Probably the ultimate example of a long-term character that is
constantly undermining, insulting, and generally getting in the
way and yet somehow still being of great help when the situation
needs irritatingly.
Oh, I could have done with a bit more peanut hamper.
I mean, lower decks does have a bare hit rate than not of having
characters which sort of toe the line between being quite horrible
and quite lovely.
And I do like that, you know, it just makes it a more interesting
ensemble.
But the fact that this is one of those robots.
So it's cute little robots from quality of life.
That's a total bitch.
It's just such a weird juxtaposition.
I love it.
Well, except it is kind of inevitable, isn't it?
Like once we discovering quality of life that the XOcoms are
sentient.
You kind of think the next natural thing is the 1st exocomp in
Starfleet, and they go there.
It's a brilliant, brilliant idea.
And having her bee.
So incredibly hilarious at all.
I think the creators have stepped back and gone, right, we want
this really terrible character.
What is the cutest thing we can possibly think of in Star Trek
that ain't a tribble.
Oh, the exacomps.
Yeah, they were just so cutesy wootsy.
She's so good.
And then it's just how it jumps through all the rings of a
redemption episode in Star Trek, you know?
And I remember the 1st time I watched it and I was going, oh, you
know, she's not so bad after all.
And then at the end, feeling really stupid because this was called
a mathematically precise redemption.
You know?
Did I say precise?
I meant perfect.
Yeah.
But also as well, I think it's a really visually interesting
episode as well.
I think the planet is gorgeous and there's sort of space effects
and ships coming in and all sorts.
It's just so brilliant all rounder.
And totally unlike anything lower decks has done anywhere else as
well.
It's telling a fresh type of Star Trek episode and we can only
applaud it for that.
You must have been so pleased at how many times the word fuck was
blooped out in this as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I prefer keeping it in, but they do bleep it in lower
decks and say that's fine, I guess.
It's so funny because you're like, oh, no, she's going to go down
onto this pre-warp civilisation and, you know, affect them with
technology.
No.
The 1st thing she does is infect them with swear words.
So good.
Let's watch this thing.
We're gonna have a great time.
Okay, all right.
I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
So it's the Cerritos.
No, I didn't.
Yes.
In, yes, in the, in the eye dent.
So we don't get the opening credits in this, and I'm a bit sad
about that because I love the opening credits and the music, but
we get a beautiful version of the credits music.
The music's great, but it's also, as well, just showing the time
and the distance that poor peanut hamper is travelling.
So here we see the Cerritos being carved up by that giant pack led
ship.
Like if you squinted, that could be really good CGI.
Yeah, well, it is really, isn't it?
So peanut hamper.
You can load it into your ship with your robotic abilities.
Nah, you're right.
Yeah, I'm gonna pass.
Off she goes.
That's so cute.
I love the design of the Xacombs.
Yeah, yeah, they're awesome, aren't they?
They're really really good.
We're all gonna die.
We're all overacting enormously.
It was wonderful.
Sucks to be organic.
Enjoy.
I mean, you've got...
She's not only a bad thing.
She's sarcastic with it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And it's just great.
She does a commentary on the end of the episode.
Yeah, this is the episode end where Shaq gets killed on the ship
the ship explodes and the big guy died.
I mean, she does go as well.
They wanted me to do that.
No way, Jose.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
And there's the, there's the, the, uh, um, Titan.
I don't know why, though.
The Warriors just all gracefully sort of spins through space.
I feel really sorry for her.
Yeah, and she's tiny in the shot.
Like she's really small.
It turns out one bit of that debris is the original implant.
Rutherford's original implant that he has in series one and that
gets picked up because it has a copy of badgie in it.
And...
So sinister.
That bloody bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's an episode in series 4, which is a kind of sequel to
this that Peanut Hamper and Agamus, I think is pronounced.
Peanut, hamper, and Agamus appearing called, um, a few badgies
more.
And it's very, it's really very good and it has some surprising
extra badgies, as you might expect, from the name.
This, that slow down tower music and that beautiful animation.
It is a mission statement that this is something a bit different
though, isn't it?
Yeah.
And I think, you know, like, this, like, there are ways that this
show sees itself as a sequel to the animated series because it is
the 1st Star Trek animation that's been attempted since then.
But obviously it's beautifully and expensively animated, and
they're really proud of that.
Like they make beautiful things in a way that Kurtzman Trek does
and in a way that 90s trek often doesn't.
I love the fact that peanut hamperers created a rock and made it
look like a exacomp and that's her best friend.
She's like, I will never leave you. for me like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll never leave you so weird.
The 2nd someone comes home.
See you later, sorry.
There's only one of us.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, here you go.
You've got a friend for life.
She's so awful.
So here's the drug money turning up.
And so immediately there's the tractor beam.
She flings it into the tractor beam, doesn't she?
Is that what's happening?
Off she goes.
Yep, there goes, Soph.
Bye.
She's so awful.
It's brilliant She just will not learn anything. terrific.
And to be fair, even during the moments where it looks like the
redemption is genuinely occurring.
She's still snippy and sarky and...
Mean about the planet.
You know, this beautiful planet.
Look at this from the point of view of her waking up with all the
binary numbers.
Oh, so no, we're doing the usual hair, you know, the Starfleet
character that's landed on the planet is being hailed as a gold.
Yeah, yeah, it's thine own self, isn't it?
Oh, I love these bird people.
So great.
So in Zelda Breath of the Wild, there is a village of wild.
And that was all we could think about, me and Brendan and James
when we were watching this.
It's Peanut Hamper goes to Rito Village and is rude about everyone
sort of the huge jungle vistas and that was reminded me a bit of
Avatar as well, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh yeah, I think there's there are some definite visual references
to Avatar.
And here too.
So this is um...
Oh, what's his name?
Caltoris, the leader, and he's scraping some stuff off her because
she's been horribly scorched, like her Starfleet uniform is burned
off because it was just painted on, obviously.
And he's scraping it off and she's kind of getting off on it.
So we said, you know what I mean?
And what is a sort of rather creepy way?
Like, oh, you know, just...
Do it again or whatever you were doing over there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're creepy, dreadful.
It's not the creepiest thing that happens in this between that
robot and a bird person.
The hotbird person.
Take a good look at this beautiful Avian village because by the
end of it, it's going to be a burnt cinder.
Yeah, yeah.
And it is beautiful.
I mean, everything just looks stunning and these people are really
just well realised.
And it's funny as well because so they've rejected technology.
We don't know what I do.
That's really special.
Thanks.
And she makes candy because, of course, they've got a little
replicator built in.
Remember, so it can build tools, so she's giving it candy.
Wasn't thine own self the same sort of story, again, where data
was improving things in the village until we realised that...
Except, yes, he brought radioactive.
He was killing them all.
Unfortunately, yeah.
Oh, he is, yes.
It's very buff, isn't it?
I love it when she says later, though, you know, at the end when
she's throwing all her insults just on her way out of the village
she goes, he cries after he has sex every time. cries after we do
it.
Yeah, so he's very like that, you know.
They're usually the muscly ones actually.
Well, they go.
So he is hot, isn't he?
Buff bird guy.
I'm getting some major bad boy finished vibes.
Keep it in your pants, sister.
And I think that's Lauren Tom, who plays Amy in Futurama. is
that.
The woman there.
Imagine if this was live action.
What these bird people would look like?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They look terrible.
So, the bird, there are bird people in, um, in the animated series
and they're called Aurelians, and in fact...
Yeah, she calls them poor man's Aurelians.
She refers to the REO as poor man's Aurelians.
And in fact, we saw the other day in prodigy that Chakotay's 1st
officer is a flightless Aurelian.
Arik Adrik, who, uh, we, so they're back.
So they're in prodigy and they are in lower decks.
Humping best on with animation, don't you think?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's like the cat people, isn't it?
Do you know what I mean?
Like maress or whatever in the animated series and obviously Dr
Ta'ana in this.
Um, and Miglamo isn't, he's not an Aurelian or one of these guys
either.
So a skysnake is attacking.
Everything's flies out.
What is it called?
That's what's the great thing.
In the village.
Yes.
They have flying pigs and flying goats and like just everything
has wings and flies on, there's the flying pigs.
There's some flying goats in a cage.
Are we milking the milk, yeah.
She's milking.
The goat did a very upsetting mate.
Oh, it's so great.
Oh, gosh, router.
You're not going to turn on by that bird, man, are you?
I am hot bird man.
So he's been bit by a skysnake and he's obviously going to die.
It's so shitty, coach.
It's the circle of life.
He killed me with his venom.
I killed him with my spear and she just comes in and goes, hang
on.
It's a manti-venom.
No, you're saying you're being a big baby.
And she cures him and she starts to do these things just because
she's kind of annoyed by how shit they are.
And then it starts to look like she's actually making their lives
better, which is a thing that she actually is doing.
Oh, she's definitely making broadware. like better in a minute.
Yeah, well yeah.
But he lets out a scream that can be heard all across the
village.
Oh, I couldn't believe they did that.
The orgasm. couldn't believe it.
Well, I mean, we have Shacks and Taana having sex.
Oh, I can just about handle that, but a wet tongued snog between a
robot and a birdman.
Yeah, I made that into species too far.
Yeah, so now she's very popular and she's helping people and
stuff.
Oh, she's sort of flying around with a shopping bag or is that a
doctor's bag?
Apparently.
My faecal matter is back to being oily and white.
Thank you.
But also gross.
See, she hasn't quite lost a rich.
No that's right.
Oh, I love this.
She shoots all the birds and they all hatch all the little
chicklings.
It's wonderful.
And then, of course, they're trying to make her as cute as
possible, so all the birds get on top of her and just...
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah, so we actually do do a proper redemption arc.
Her and Jeffrey Coombes do one in a few badges more.
So she does actually get a bit of a redemption.
I almost don't want that to happen, though.
Yeah.
But she does get to team up with Megalum and I call computer and
she's locked up in the Daystrom Institute in a thing called the
Self-aware Megalomaniacal Computer Storage.
Just when that...
Undertake camera, when that image pans out and you see just how
many evil robots are locked away.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's kind of like where Landry would go.
Yeah, except he didn't, obviously.
We could probably compile a list actually over the last 50 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. killer computers.
So this is him singing and you're expecting it to be beautiful and
he just shrieks and screeches.
How many Star Trek Voyager episodes have we had when they're
looking over a beautiful valley like this?
Harry Kim and his latest girlfriend on the planet, except it's
some dreadful matted in special effects.
And here it looks cool. meant to be a drawing.
That's right.
She feels like she's growing up.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it is all working.
Just saying all the right things, all the things we need to hear
to think she's evolving as a person.
I was completely fooled the 1st time round because I was like, you
know what?
Lower deck does have an edge, but it also can be very touching and
very heartwarming as well.
Yeah, and that's true.
And like it normally is heartwarming and touching.
You've got Mariner, do you know what I mean?
Rebelling and stuff like that, but with a heart of gold and stuff
we're about to have sex.
Oh Jesus Christ.
How around 10 noise come shooting?
Yeah, his hair goes around.
She goes, oh, and now she's looking at his dick.
It looks like it's very complicated.
I just can't look at this where they start kissing. no His wind's
become an enormous heart for the waterfall.
There he is. having an orgasm.
Boy, oh boy.
Have you ever screamed that loud?
I think I have once or twice.
So this is, don't you think this is Avatar?
We're in the glowing sort of flowers bed thing.
Yeah, so now we start to get the backstory and we understand that
she doesn't know.
But we understand why they're so fearful of how to start off with
because they used to have technology.
Yeah.
It ended bad.
And why the science is so crap.
Why they're just happy to let themselves get killed by the
skysnake and stuff?
And so this is her discovering that they were a space faring
civilisation at one and presumably this is where she actually
decides to kind of go evil again.
Do you know what I mean?
Maybe up to this point, some kind of redemption is happening.
I love it when science fiction does this with the pictures on the
wall depicting the entire history of the planet.
Yeah, just a few images.
And you know, I thought for a 2nd I was going to have a chance to
go, my God, look how accurately they've drawn, stock cave set
number 52.
And then they go into this vast cabin.
I was like, 0 yeah, 90s tracks would not have done that.
No.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so what's happening here?
Like, she's kind of saying that she's not good.
She feels bad.
And you don't know how to read it, do you?
Like even in retrospect.
I think the only way to kind of read it is naively that she
actually means this, I think.
Well, and I was just incredibly confused the 1st time I was
watching it with this nuanced characterisation of an exacomp.
Are we really doing this?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, how far are we in?
We still haven't seen um, like we... more than halfway and we
haven't seen the crew.
Frankly, after, you know, in season one of TOS, when we saw, you
know, the water, the water duvet, being able to display such raw
emotions, I think Star Trek could actually personify anything.
Yeah.
Yeah, so they had sex again, and apparently whenever they have sex
a bunch of flying tortoises up here.
So now they're getting married.
It's so powerful when the seasons change.
Yes that's right.
We have roosted here today, he says.
It's the wing joining of the 2 of them.
And she's wearing a beak, a bridal beat.
The veil.
So ridiculous.
Can I tell you right?
even jamma love this.
He gave this 3.5 stars.
It's one of his highest rated Kurtzman episodes.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay Oh my god, it's the Sky Avengers.
Oh, yeah, he's mossly, but he is a bit he's a bit emotional, isn't
he, raw dog?
He's a bit weird, but he is hot.
So that's fine.
So she staged this, hasn't she?
So, wait, here's J.G. Hertz.
Seriously, doesn't it?
It does look like him.
He's gone.
Even the scar...
The Martok scar as well. like down the eye.
And this is so funny because, you know, when you learn that she's
literally there thinking, great, they're here on time, right?
Yeah, it's entire place.
Yeah, she looks like she's, she's, uh, she's being a hero.
Oh, this is where she sends the, she sends the message, doesn't
she?
She sends a message to the Soritos for them to come and witness
her bravery in the face of a thirsty.
Old babies, the babies.
Oh, save you, she goes.
Yeah, exactly.
Here's the Serritos. there we are But the trouble is, right?
Think of, oh, actually, it's got bird people in there.
It's all our regulars, except to Anna, but we're all on the fridge
there. because they are doing their contractual obligation.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Star Trek, isn't it?
Think of par situational or whatever that episode's called
Avoyager. and Neelix. and they go down onto the bird planet and
they hatch the little boat and they put their jealousy aside and
they do wonderful things.
And it's basically the same sort of plot, but of course in that
everything is exactly as it seems, whereas the joy of this is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's how it's some, it's the cliche. it's wonderful Yeah, it's
great.
Sorry, I can't hear you because I'm staring at Rowder's... buff
torso.
Who can save us?
She goes.
That needs of the view, baby.
Even the way she flies off, it's sort of graceful.
They're not really sort of dynamic, are they?
The ex-acomps.
No, no, no.
The exocomps are very much...
On a string.
Yes, exactly.
Canonically on a string.
Who's that bird man on the bridge?
Is that the counsellor?
That's Miglamo, the counsellor.
Yeah, yeah.
So he isn't a Aurelian or an Ariel.
I love as well.
Like, Tendi, every single time the X-Com does something.
She's like, oh, it's peanut hamper.
She's utterly convinced because she's so lovely that this
monstrous robot can be redeemed.
Do you know, if I was J.G. Herser, I'd start to feel as if I'm
being typecast a bit, you know, playing all these snarling. it's
work, I suppose.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he does play Martoc, remember, in the game?
I think it's in the, um, that hunting game, the least dangerous
game that we've already done.
He was in an episode already.
There she is, saving the day.
Right, where the hell are the Cerritos crew?
Did I see it?
At this point.
I have to keep saying it.
At this point, I was so convinced by everything that this was
playing out in this episode.
No, and they're there.
You know, they're going to forgive her and stuff.
It's it's very exciting.
But it's like one of those moments where I want to jump out of my
seat and punch the air because I was so thoroughly hoodwinked by
it.
I think maybe in the back of my head, I was like, well, if she's
gone to the length of having sex with that bird, she must mean
it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But she just likes having sex, I think.
Oh, peanut hamper.
We witnessed Peter had the selfless act.
Oh, now, no, I'm sorry, now I wouldn't be so convinced.
Now she's laying it on a bit too.
These beautiful birds that I meant.
Yes, I understand love and sacrifice.
And blah, blah, blah.
And it was this bit now, which goes, no, no, no, you stay here
with your people.
I must return to them.
I think we have heard that a few times in Star Trek.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's another romance episode, isn't it?
We've talked about Star Trek romance episodes.
This is one of the more convincing one.
Yeah, that's right.
This works quite well. does work quite well.
Look, if only all-star trip romance has had that many muscles on
display, we'd be quite happy.
Yeah.
Instead, we end up with a hot guy.
Icky men like it, Meridian and the price and things like that.
Yeah.
Yep.
Oh, what's the current now?
Oh, so the ship.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, because we blew up the ship, so they've got one of our ships
one of the REO ships, and we're attacking with that.
My, um, my one criticism of this episode is that the unfortunate
thing about an episode with a brilliant twist is when you know the
twist, you've never experiencing it in the same way.
You know, you saw, you watch the mechanics of the plot and how
it's falling you the 2nd time, which does make the 2nd viewing, you
know, quite nice, but...
Shakes came in carrying a whole bunch of little baby birds.
They all go sort of bouncing across the village.
And here it is.
This is where it is.
She's been sprung.
I did think as well, actually, on this watch, I was like, well
wouldn't she have possibly calculated that this could happen and
so destroy J.G. Hertler's ship during the fireworks, maybe?
Well, that happened, didn't it?
And they had to get on board one of the old ships from the uh, from
the cave.
She's so horrible about these bird people now. house.
Star Trek characters just don't behave like this normally.
Yes.
And again, she's dismissing them.
You know, she made that crack about how they had an invented tiles
and they had straw now shut the fuck up. sounds like you. in that
triple episode where he lost his tongue. even cries after we do
it.
And Tandy, Tandy silver leaves.
Bless her.
She's doing it again.
Wonderfully nice, isn't she?
Smell you later.
Because they all shit everywhere, is her?
She's so awful.
So awful.
Oh boy.
And so this is the final act.
And now the Cerritos itself is under threat, obviously, from the
big spaceship.
This battle's pretty bad. fabulous.
Look at that.
Sarah and across the hall. looks really good.
Oh, what's the engineer's name?
I love that character.
The one where they're trying to get into our sex is the best.
It's so good.
Can we roll that soon, please?
Well, let's just keep rolling lower decks. brilliant.
In fact, that episode that you mention is the one where Agamus
appears for the 1st time.
So the B plot is Boheemler and Mariner down on the planet with
Agamus trying not to be seduced by him.
And look at Sexy Router, at the helm of the ship.
Nah, he still cries.
No, no, no, but like that's pretty cool.
And so there is something happening here, isn't it?
Where, um, they discover, so they've hidden themselves away and
they're a few science and they're kind of pathetic in a way that
that peanut hamper correctly identifies.
You know, they're full of parasites and their faecal matter isn't
sort of white and runny.
Um, and so they kind of learn to accept their past.
You know, they're not retreating here anymore.
They are going to, and a new thing is going to happen.
You know, we've got to, you know, we can do what we want.
We don't know if we obey these old rules, which I think is pretty
great.
And that's a personal trick message.
There you go.
You have earned your right to command us now.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's actually quite good, and here's peanut hamper trying to
get the credit for that.
We did it.
Yes.
That's it.
That's it. whatever.
I mean, that would have been a good twist again.
No, actually, this is what I was doing all along.
No, no, you weren't.
No, she's just coming to take the take the credit.
The Borg.
Enjoy being assimilated.
She's so dreadful.
Lock her up.
Yeah, that's what we're going to do.
There she is.
Oh, I don't know though.
Institute.
I mean, I love this anything, but I would have just loved this
terrible character being in every episode, you know, snarky
remarks.
So there's another dumb, another dumb, slightly dumb, self-aware.
Oops, I didn't give you Charles to guess.
There he is.
Agamus.
I must say.
That's a mathematically perfect name, Migo.
I think you and I could do awful things together.
It's such a great part for Jeffrey Coombs as well. absolutely
perfect.
He's so good.
But think of that.
I mean, is nomad there?
I can't see.
And that beautiful shot...
Stream Institute.
Yeah.
And that's what it looks like in Star Trek Picard as well. when
you see it in Star Trek Picard, which is pretty great.
They're all talking then, the show runners.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's actually that same shot only, like real, except not real
obviously, a special effect.
It's a true one offer, isn't it?
Like, you couldn't do that every other week.
But boy, oh, boy.
It is unique.
Yeah.
And it's just so outrageously funny.
What's being really clever.
I guess the other one that they've done, which is really just a
formal experiment where they're trying to do something weird and
different and interesting, is that episode Wedge Dudge that
introduces the new Vulcan character whose name escapes me.
Um, and it's the one with the 3 lower decks on the different
ships.
Remember that?
There's the Klingon ship and there's the Vulcan ship and there's
our ship and we have, you know, lower decks characters on each of
them all involved in the one plot.
I think it's pretty good.
It must be in series three, I think, because it introduces that
new Vulcan character who appears quite a lot in series four.
When you think of something like Voyager as a whole.
You and I have identified lots of episodes where we divert away
from the regular cars and generally that's, you know, because half
the regular cars are intolerable. those are the preferable
episodes.
Living witness when you've seen them all as evil or timeless where
we go to an alternative timeline, you know. the killing game when
they're all playing those fabulous French resistance characters
you know, and we're like, well, this is much more fun than the
usual Tom Paris and Harry Kim episodes.
Unfortunately, or rather fortunately, with lower decks, we're in
the advantageous position of loving all the regular characters.
So you can't do this too often because we want to hang with those
people.
Yeah.
I did actually find myself missing Mariner and Boemler a little
bit by about the midway point.
But obviously this was absolutely worth doing.
I think.
Well, the thing this scores is by giving Peanut Hamper her own
episode is I desperately want to go to be a regular at the end of
the day.
I was like, no, you would compliment this crew perfectly, you
know.
And like I said at the start, you can do this.
You can have like the anti-hero, like they did with Giorgio in the
series and it not feel like Star Trek.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, wonderful.
Terrific stars. so much fun.
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to
work out where we're going next.
This was your excellent choice, Joe, and so it's time for me to
choose something much worse.
And to that end, I have decided that we're going to do an episode
event.
No furniture.
We're going to the project.
I was just waiting to hear an abroas.
What do you mean to say, enterprise?
We're still behind on Enterprise, you know, we shouldn't really be
doing more Enterprise, but I want to do Voyager because I love
it.
So does Kurt's terrible.
Yeah, that's right.
Do you remember that question I've asked about why so much Voyager
and so little DS9?
I received an answer this week in an interview?
I can't remember who it was with now.
My memory's terrible, where they basically said, it's such a
strong vision and body of work.
They don't want to ruin DS9 by doing too much like afterwards.
And the so I said...
I get it.
I said that.
Do you remember I said I thought that it would be a bad idea for
them to go in there and resolve what happens at the end and kind
of ruin it?
Like, that we don't want to see what happens to the emissary.
We don't want to see Cisco come back and we don't need to know
that.
I think that there's something to be said for that.
We're changelings a bit.
A weird compliment.
We don't want to touch you because you've got too strong of an
identity.
And it becomes a compliment to Voyager because it's like, well
your characters are fun.
We'll have you in there, but you've got such a shitty identity
yourself.
It don't matter what we do.
Yeah, we don't care what happens.
Yeah, they went on, you know.
And did Star Trek things afterwards.
It was fine.
All right, Star Trek Voyager, are we ready?
No, but let's do it.
Oh my god.
You know, a random soundtrack Voyager episode is the 37s.
Series two, episode one.
Do you know, I was listening to a Star Trek podcast the other day
where 5 people were talking about the 37s and they were all
lauding it.
Like it was this incredible piece of work.
It is such a bad script.
I'm half tempted to do it.
Anything that opens with, oh, it's a truck in space.
Tom, aren't you an expert on 20th century truck?
All right.
The void, which we covered in episode 117.
Not all that long ago.
Season five, episode 20, think tank.
Oh, that's the one.
Yeah, it's a really cheap, super brain set.
Um, that sort of thinks through all the problems in here.
It's not that great, if I'm honest.
Is it the one with Jason Alexander?
It is.
So Jason Alexander obviously now is on prodigy.
But this is sort of Seinfeld, Jason Alexander, isn't it?
It's about as mid as Voyager gets, you know?
It's like nothing too offensive, but I mean, it was probably a big
deal getting Jason Alexander, but now in 2024.
I don't care.
I feel as if we should do something either spectacular or truly
dismal.
Okay, well, which one is this?
Season seven, episode 11 shattered.
So that was the season 7 episode where Chakotay is sort of
shattered through time and visits various segments of Voyagers
history.
It was there one sort of chance to look back over the last 7 years
and say all the progress that they haven't made with the premise.
It stars the medium, Robert.
It does have Cisca in it, though, because it does go back to a
period where Cisca's in it.
So, okay, that's a thing because what's the other one?
It's not worst case scenario.
It is worst case scenario.
She comes back in that too.
We're sort of on the holodeck, but it all goes a bit wrong as it
tends to.
That's right.
Oh, it becomes a hollow novel, doesn't it?
And everyone's playing it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But for an episode that is skipping back through the history of
Star Trek Voyager, it's very plain.
Like relativity does the same thing.
Relativity jumps back to just before they boarded Voyager when
it's in dry dock.
And it's way more fun.
Pressure again.
Okay.
All right.
Oh, I think you're going to want this one.
Season two, episode 18 Death Wish.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
One of the best...
Really?
Okay, so it's John Delancey, but it's not his 1st appearance on
Voyager, is it?
It is his 1st appearance on Voyager.
And it's the only appearance.
I won't give any spoilers to what happens to him. of the 2nd cues
in this.
It really has something important to say this episode about
euthanasia and making choices.
And it's really funny as well.
I think you'll be a bit miffed because I think I think you have a
few issues with Q on Voyager, don't you?
That sort of Q Janeway relationship.
The sexism just annoys me, like he just doesn't have to be
sexist.
They don't have to ride him that way, but because they're so
conscious that they have a female captain, they have to kind of
keep mentioning it.
Like, as if, as if, uh, Celess had Q talking about how Cisco was
black all the time.
Do you know what I mean?
That doesn't happen because that would have been horrific.
I kind of think it's a mistake for them to do it with Janeway.
I think this is the only time Q properly works on Voyager.
And that's because, okay, Hiller is writing this script.
And he really, he really does want to do something.
And they conceptualised the queue continuum on this sort of dusty
road.
Do you remember?
Yes, I remember that very well.
Super interesting.
Voyager somehow ends up as an ornament on a Christmas tree.
I mean, it's just for me.
And there is a brilliant, brilliant scene where Q says to Janeway
if you let this hearing go my way and it just points to the window
and earths outside the window.
It's a really great episode.
I think we should absolutely do that.
Okay, awesome.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 17th of September 2024 and
released on the 20th of September.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Death Wish.
It's a shame we have to come away from lower decks now, and it'll
probably be about 10 episodes before we head back again, because I
swear this is where we laugh the most.
So, I mean, we're in a position where, you know, as we record or
release this.
It's about a month until the final series, series 5 drops.
So it's not too far away.
And it has been great.
I kind of always say it might be C.S. Lewis, who said, there are 2
times you can stop doing something before everyone's sick of it or
afterwards.
And, like, I'm so ending. making the right call, I think, but they
are making a good call.
I think.
What would it be?
50 episodes.
That's a nice episode.
Solid run, Nearly as many as discovery.
Well, I think we said this in the past as well.
Probably the most consistently good arm of Star Trek because it
just knows what it's doing.
It knows what it's doing and it does it extremely well.
And you know that there's talk of a, um, a live action sitcom of
Star Trek in the works, and it, like this has made it clear that
it can work as a sick, that can be comedy.
Please, Star Trek, in front of a, you know, live audience.
Every time someone gets on the bridge. sitcoms aren't like that
anymore.
I think it could be funny.
You know, we did trouble with Edward.
That was pretty funny.
I reckon it's doable, but we'll see.
I am going to end this episode where I started.
I genuinely do think this is one of the the few perfect episodes
of Kursman Drake.
Mathematically perfect.
Phomatically perfect.
Yeah, that was great.
That was great.
Yeah, that was pretty good.