WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 19:46:53

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So we're back.

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It's the '60s.

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It's Star Trek, the original series Series 2, episode 25.

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In 2 weeks time, we'll be with Gary 7 on Assignment Earth.

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Yeah, but right now, we are in what the show calls 20th century

7
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Rome, which is actually literally a place that I've been to.

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And it's called Bread and Circuses.

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It's the...

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And it's the 1st of 2 titles that are quotes from the Roman

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satirist juvenile.

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I know the other one.

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Who watches the watches?

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It is.

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So Panamets, Kansas, for this one, and quis custodiet ipsos

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custores in the 2nd one.

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So...

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It's also a good thing, of course. cushion on my lap right now.

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You know how hard I get when you're super intelligent.

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So, this is pretty fucking weird, I think, don't you?

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Only Star Trek could possibly go to 20th century Rome gladiatorial

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games being televised one week to ditching the regulars and having

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a time travelling protagonist up a rocket with a cat climbing on

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his back the next week.

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I mean, what's happening?

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Are they smoking a lot?

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60s?

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It's pretty incredible.

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And we are only about a month out from Nazi planet. in patterns of

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force, which is one that I don't think I've ever seen.

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But in any case, so what they've done, like the premise is that

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there's a thing called Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planet

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Development, and that just means that we can go to other planets

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that are like ancient Rome, but it never fail, or Nazi planet, or

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whatever.

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Shit, get out, call or something.

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As soon as I start that line, I was like, so how many of these, is

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there a directory of all these planets and all the different ways

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that they've developed?

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Because how does this happen?

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How does this actually happen realistically, on another world, with

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parallel evolution to earth, the language and everything, with

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this slight deviation. bullshit, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah, no, it is bullshit, but that's Star Trek, and, you

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know, like it's just the 2nd year of Star Trek, and they're kind

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of working what they can do.

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Like, can we go to planets that are just sort of parallel earth?

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I don't know when a piece of the action is.

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Is that in series three?

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I mean, that has a problem.

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No, no, no, no. piece of the action.

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That's early.

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But that's when where it's cultural contamination, isn't it?

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Like something gets left behind on the planet and they end up kind

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of modelling their society on it.

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But there's a huge difference between a piece of the action and

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this because in that, they basically do a gangster movie and just

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totally dive into the genre and do all the fun things that you can

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do with that, the Tommy guns running around the streets, gunfires

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and things.

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They're not really doing Roman Britain in this.

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Beyond a sword fight or two.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so like there's there's all kinds of sort of Roman bits and

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pieces and some little clever moments in there, but it is a bit

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boring, I think, in the middle.

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Oh, I was going to say throughout, but go on, throughout.

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Okay.

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And then and then the gladiatorial combat is pretty rooster.

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The poor director is quoted on memory alpha as saying that that

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should have been the huge set piece of this episode. and we should

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have been given time to do it, stage it more impressively on a

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bigger sound stage with better design and with sort of really

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carefully choreographed fight scenes.

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Instead, it was literally lashed up in about 15 minutes.

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They just gave the actor source and said, go for it.

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Apparently the suits were looking over his shoulders, basically

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saying, come on, time is money.

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Get going.

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It goes, so the whole reason this episode exists. then the payoff

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is it's really lame.

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It's really quite embarrassing.

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Yeah, it is a little bit.

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And we'll get to the ending because I just think the ending is

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astounding and absolutely baffling and I don't know what's

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happening.

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So strange.

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Oh, hooray, Ahura gets something to do and then she opened her

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mouth and I was like, oh, no, please.

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Stop talking.

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When we get there, her delivery of that line is magnificent.

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Like, she's so good.

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Well, she tells them all very well.

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I like that bitch.

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Where she goes, it's the son of God.

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And they're just like, oh.

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Michelle, I love you so much.

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I just like the looks of all her faces when she went, no, you're

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all completely wrong.

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Excuse me?

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You're the bloody secretary.

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What are you talking about?

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No, I just thought she was magnificent.

104
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But it's so stupid.

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And we'll obviously get there and sort of talk about it as well

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because I have a rant.

107
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You're not the only person having a rant, Nathan, because by all

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accounts, this is where the discontent between the 2 genes, Gene

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Roddenbury and Gene Coon, it finally came to a head.

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It was fighting over this script where Gene Coon, who was

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suffering from cancer at the time as well.

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So he probably would have had to have pulled away from the

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series.

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He just said enough.

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And he actually said to Gene Roddenbury in this, I'm not going to

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be producing this show anymore, here's a possible replacement.

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So it was this script was the tip of the iceberg.

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Freddie Freiberger.

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And I said to you in a message, I wonder if something could have

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been made of this, if G number two, who is Gene Coon, had been

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given full creative control, because we've done a couple of his

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scripts and they were, well, my dream, he did write Spock's brain

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as well.

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But we said that was maybe punishment after this on gene number

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one. that's Gene Runner.

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I can see Gene Roddenbury all over this, especially that god awful

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scene where Jerusalem, the handmaiden, comes in and just goes, oh

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I'm your fuck buddy for tonight, Captain Kirk.

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That's her sole reason for existence.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it's very strange.

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There's no reason for that scene to happen at all, really.

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Anyway.

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By all accounts.

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The director says that the finished scripts for this were handed

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to him on day one of shooting.

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So Gene Roddenbury was rewriting it.

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He probably saw Gene Coon, you know, and he was like, right, give

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out here. going to rewrite this overnight. and handed it to the

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drawer.

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So that might be why this is a bit of a mess.

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On that note.

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Whilst on location in this episode, I forget who's quoted us

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saying it now.

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Somebody was visiting with Gene Roddenbury to see the filming, and

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apparently the discontent between the regular actors was pretty

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bad in this.

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Shatner saw Gene Roddenbury walking towards them and is quoted as

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saying it just turned around and walked away.

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It wouldn't even acknowledge him at all.

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So I don't, I don't think there was a, there was trouble in

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paradise. at this point in Star Trek's run.

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But you got to remember, at this point, it wasn't necessarily

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there was going to be a 3rd series.

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This could have been the end of a run.

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So maybe everyone's a bit nervous about looking for extra work.

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Yeah, well, I've got things to say, but it is a long episode and I

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don't want us to run out of.

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There's always 5 minutes in an original series episodes where

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we're just sort of going, oh, the light is nice, isn't it?

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you know?

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There's not a lot of incident in this episode, so I'm going to

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keep my powder dry, I think.

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It is random tricks, law of the original Star Trek series.

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They're all 10 minutes too long.

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Too long.

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This one's maybe about 25 minutes too long.

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All right.

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I think we should go in then in that case.

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Yep, let's do it.

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Okay, I'll count it in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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So this is clearly the new special effects.

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Yes, I noticed a new special effect, particularly when the planet

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appeared on the screen.

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I was like, yes, yeah.

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That very HD planet that's been superimposed on this very 60s

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set.

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Well, it's also the very HD planet where they know what the earth

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looks like from space.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So that there's cloud covering stuff like that.

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I haven't seen a picture of what, uh, apparently it's called Magna

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Roma in the later kind of spinoff material, and there are even

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characters from Magna Roma, so great Rome or Greater Rome.

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Um, so delightfully, uh, they don't just sweep this under the

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carpet.

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There is really a Roman planet and it gets referred to again, which

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is kind of awesome.

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Well, I was going to drop it later, but I'm going to do it now

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you've mentioned a spinoff, Ephemera.

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In the autobiography, of Captain James T. Kirk.

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Apparently, Drusilla birthed one of Kirk's many children.

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Okay, that he found out about later when he revisited the planet.

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And he turned out to be a really famous director and producer on

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this planet.

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Oh, God.

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Oh my god.

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So did you see the thing?

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There was a hilarious thing where they're talking about the

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planet?

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Maybe it hasn't come yet.

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So the premise is a little bit like angel one where you have, you

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know, like a spaceship of people who are, you know, not

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federation.

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Here's the planet.

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Not Federation have landed on the planet.

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Look, Spock says something about it having an excellent road

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system.

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Like, that's the 1st that's one of the things that he notices.

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And I thought, yep, you know, I'll pay that.

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That's pretty good.

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But then they talk about these primitive transmissions, which I

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believe was called television.

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No, but they also talk about amplitude modulation and frequency

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modulation, like they have AM and FM radio, both kinds of radio

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even FM radio.

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Oh, my God.

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Sophisticated plan out.

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I mean, there is there is a fair few digs. uh, television in the

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script.

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There's the excellent road system.

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That's pretty good.

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I absolutely think the digs at TV are coming from Gene Roddenbury

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who's just pissed at this point.

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There's been so much involvement from the execs.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yes, there are some, there's that great line about where Flavius

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Maximus gets told that if he doesn't behave, they'll do a special

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on him.

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Brilliant.

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So here we have a news, they're watching the news.

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It's in black and white and the slaves are rebelling, well treated

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intelligent slaves.

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So we have slaves on this planet and they're rebelling, even

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though they're kind of intelligent.

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And here, when I saw this, where we're in the arena, but the arena

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is a shitty curve.

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Backdrop.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it looks like nothing like where any, it's like it's not in an

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amphitheatre. like they're in a lovely garden or something.

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It's fucking tiny as well.

246
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Nowhere in Rome was that small.

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I'm telling you.

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Oh, dear, oh dear.

249
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Yeah, no, it looks ridiculous.

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Well, take a good look at it, all right?

251
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because you're going to see a lot of it in this episode.

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Well, in fact, what I really liked about it was, I was watching it

253
00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:58.799
going, wow, that is a really shitty set, and it turns out the

254
00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:02.580
reason it's a shitty set is, actually, she said.

255
00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.440
It's a shitty TV set.

256
00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:09.779
But when even we're getting very better now, when even the

257
00:12:09.779 --> 00:12:12.840
director of this episode is saying, wow, that's a really shitty

258
00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:14.460
set, we should have done better.

259
00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:15.779
Yeah, yeah.

260
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:16.740
Yes.

261
00:12:16.860 --> 00:12:18.299
Okay.

262
00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.240
And so this is one as well, where just the 3 characters beamed

263
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:24.419
down.

264
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.960
Like, why is the science officer the captain and the chief medical

265
00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:29.940
officer beaming down this planet?

266
00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:30.779
Who knows?

267
00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:34.679
You know, like the show's potentially been cancelled.

268
00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:35.879
It's the last time we can do this.

269
00:12:35.940 --> 00:12:36.840
All right?

270
00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:38.399
That's why.

271
00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:40.799
Because next week we're doing a pilot for the next series.

272
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.059
One last celebration.

273
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.440
Yeah, yeah.

274
00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:50.279
Oh, you know, that new HD enterprise does look so great, doesn't

275
00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:50.399
it?

276
00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.259
It looks really good. doesn't it?

277
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.860
And they haven't faffed around with it too much and still, you

278
00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:58.679
know, fairly basic looking, but it's a great model.

279
00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:04.139
I remember the 1st time I saw a truly sophisticated model shot of

280
00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:07.259
the original Star Trek in trials and tribulations.

281
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.320
And I was like, wow, they were really were on the site.

282
00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:12.240
You just never could have told him those old games.

283
00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:14.100
No, no.

284
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.340
Well, like when I was a kid and I watched these, they weren't in a

285
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:20.460
good state, some of them, like some of them looked pretty rough, I

286
00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:20.700
think.

287
00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.639
Like obviously huge amounts of effort has gone into restoring

288
00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:23.879
them.

289
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:27.179
I didn't realise only the 3 of them got their names in the

290
00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:27.600
titles.

291
00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:30.480
I never watched the titles because you know me, I don't like the

292
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:31.740
music of original Star Trek.

293
00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:33.659
Madly. really like it.

294
00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:36.960
Oh, I see. the extraneous detail they add in.

295
00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:38.340
They put 2 moons in the sky there.

296
00:13:38.820 --> 00:13:41.519
Yeah, and they do else.

297
00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:43.379
Well, like when we see the planet from space as well.

298
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.639
So I was getting, this looked to me like the place where Neelix

299
00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:51.360
was collecting Leola roots or some bullshit in maybe it was state

300
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.820
of flux. just that open.

301
00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:55.379
It's not the same place.

302
00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:56.399
Oh, I'm not sure.

303
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:58.559
I don't mention it in memory alpha, and I think they would mention

304
00:13:58.559 --> 00:13:59.340
that sort of thing.

305
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:00.179
Right.

306
00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:05.279
But it is where the entrance to the batcave is in Batman, the TV.

307
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.120
And does feature in several movies as well.

308
00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:10.440
So it's a very popular location.

309
00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:12.720
Yeah, yeah.

310
00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:14.100
And where are we?

311
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:20.639
So the interesting thing is that they speak English, so is this

312
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:25.320
America, like why do they speak English?

313
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.220
It's the 20th century and you think about, you know, what's the

314
00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.639
biggest empire, I guess at this point, it's the Russians, isn't it

315
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.820
in a way, but the Americans are sort of imperial.

316
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:40.259
All of these shots of buildings and stuff that we get are American

317
00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:44.399
buildings with Ionic columns and Corinthian columns and stuff like

318
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:48.840
with, with, you know, that look like they're classical and all of

319
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.419
the major American public buildings are classical as well.

320
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.580
So are we talking about America?

321
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:57.360
Does this episode strive to say something about America?

322
00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:01.320
I think you're putting more thought into this than perhaps the

323
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:02.100
genes were.

324
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:02.940
Yeah.

325
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:06.840
I think they just found some, you know, Roman looking architecture

326
00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:07.799
and where that will do.

327
00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:09.419
They went, that'll do.

328
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.519
But I mean, it is kind of telling, isn't it?

329
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:16.200
You know, that, that there, that there is some way in which

330
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.759
American politics looks back on Roman politics.

331
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:24.240
It has a Senate, you know, like it has a capital.

332
00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:26.100
Like, you know, all of those things.

333
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.259
Is it ever stated where we are?

334
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.240
In the script.

335
00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:31.799
No, no, it isn't.

336
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:35.100
Like, we, they recognise that these people speak English, which, as

337
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:38.519
we said before, is just absurdly implausible.

338
00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:40.019
But like whatever.

339
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.779
Can I say one thing I'll notice, because I think all its location

340
00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:44.039
work is superb.

341
00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:47.940
And you mentioned in state of flux is a really good comparison

342
00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:55.080
because this location work, it has a cinematic looks to it.

343
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:56.700
They're doing sort of long shot.

344
00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:57.899
Look at this shot now. them approaching.

345
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.179
Scale. everyone's very small in the shot.

346
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.379
It's a big location.

347
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:04.200
And it's a big location in a state of lux, but it's all tight

348
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.240
shots in state of lux.

349
00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:08.940
I think somewhere along the way, we stopped trying to do Hollywood

350
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:10.740
and we started doing TV.

351
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.840
I think you might be right.

352
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.120
And there was like a minute ago when they were walking along.

353
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:17.820
There was a really smooth tracking shot and I'm like, how is this

354
00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:22.379
shot better in 1960, whatever than in 1990?

355
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.519
I think you're right.

356
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:29.100
So this is handsome Flavius Maximus.

357
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:34.080
Yes, I like him kind of main lead, our sort of main guest actor.

358
00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:35.039
Lovely old.

359
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:36.179
It's him and Septimus.

360
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:37.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

361
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.220
And so, and these are slaves.

362
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:43.500
And the way that we know that they're slaves is they're wearing

363
00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:47.639
gray t-shirts with chains, like chain links on an egg.

364
00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:50.220
And like so is Drusilla later.

365
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.220
So that's, and so slavery is a thing.

366
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.799
And there's a wonderful line later on.

367
00:16:55.860 --> 00:16:59.639
And that's the other thing that made me think about America, where

368
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:05.460
slave conditions have got better as time has gone by.

369
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:12.420
It's been 2000 years since, you know, our ancient Rome is at its

370
00:17:12.420 --> 00:17:12.960
height.

371
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:18.480
And so slavery, you know, now comes with healthcare and old age

372
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:19.859
pensions and stuff.

373
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.680
We don't even know we are slaves anymore.

374
00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:24.539
Is it us?

375
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:25.440
Like, is that us?

376
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:26.819
I think they like ours?

377
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:27.599
Yeah.

378
00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:28.500
Do you know what I mean?

379
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.920
So it seemed to be a sort of critique of capitalism in a way. like

380
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.599
a sort of backhanded critique.

381
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:40.440
And so is the cruelty of this empire, because how can Americans be

382
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:40.859
going?

383
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.299
Oh, you know, Christianity will come along and it'll rid us of a

384
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:54.420
brutal cruelty of ancient Rome when America had a massive, you

385
00:17:54.420 --> 00:17:59.279
know, slave workforce, and it was involved in the slave trade, and

386
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.240
you know, what these public feelings were built by enslaved

387
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:03.420
people.

388
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.920
They somehow forgotten about all the holy wars as well, which is a

389
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:09.180
bit of an oversight, you know?

390
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

391
00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:17.279
And that 1st World War that they mentioned is Christians in Europe

392
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.380
all killing one another by the 1000000s, you know. like it's very

393
00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:23.940
strange. very odd.

394
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.359
I'm just to hear any sort of religion mentioned in Star Trek is

395
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:28.019
very odd.

396
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:29.039
It's very strange.

397
00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:34.140
Especially in a positive way when we know Roddenbury went into TNG

398
00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:35.460
going, no religion.

399
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:36.839
We're above that now.

400
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.299
Yeah, we're past religion.

401
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.680
We're, you know, like a post, you know, post-religion utopia.

402
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:45.480
We have science, you know.

403
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:49.259
Are you trying to suggest that in our society now, you know, just

404
00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:52.019
so we are aware that, you know, we're all living pre-programmed

405
00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:54.359
lives and we're all controlled and we're all slaves.

406
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:57.240
We should be living out in caves, we're in these jumpsuits with

407
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:57.960
changes on them.

408
00:18:58.019 --> 00:18:59.099
These guys have escaped.

409
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.019
These guys have escaped, you see?

410
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:02.819
This is the better life, is it?

411
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:03.720
Yeah.

412
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.140
Well, though they're living in caves and living in primitive

413
00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:07.619
conditions.

414
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:12.359
Did you get the dialogue earlier where they all explain the, um

415
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:14.579
prime directive?

416
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:19.920
That's a really bad example of just the 3 of them all explaining

417
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:21.180
the prime directive to each other.

418
00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.660
What I did like about the prime director for this was when the

419
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:25.980
what's the fellow's name who's in charge?

420
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.019
Septimus.

421
00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:29.099
Septimus goes.

422
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.039
America's the other guy.

423
00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.019
No, Claudius Marcus.

424
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.180
Yeah, whatever his name is.

425
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.640
He goes, I'm very aware of your prime directive.

426
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:41.160
I've had it explained to me, and I'm also aware that you can't do

427
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.380
anything to stop me, so no, no, no, no, no, no.

428
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.160
I was like, that's great.

429
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.500
Just get it out of shit. you know?

430
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:51.420
But bizarrely, apparently they all swear an oath to die rather

431
00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:54.299
than violate the prime directive.

432
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.339
And Spot confirms that.

433
00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.359
And then McCoy goes, do you have to be so damn honest all the time

434
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:00.660
you know?

435
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:05.880
And it's kind of like, wait. like Jadeway violates the prime drain

436
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:06.359
of all the time.

437
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.180
She decided to go, oh, I better die now.

438
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.819
I thought you were doing a chain my impression then, if I'm

439
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:12.119
honest.

440
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.799
Or Picard, you know, rescuing Wesley.

441
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.079
Justice are you talking about?

442
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:20.160
Yeah.

443
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.700
Yeah.

444
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:22.019
Yeah, limey.

445
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.319
This poor fellow here, he just gets to be very amiable, doesn't

446
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:25.500
he?

447
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:25.799
You know?

448
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:33.359
Yeah, and like, so I don't think the person who's done the closed

449
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.500
captions has got the note, because he keeps saying son S-U-N

450
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.319
rather than S-O-N, every time he's talking.

451
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:42.599
It's because it's a surprise at the end.

452
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.400
I think it would ruin it. otherwise.

453
00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:45.599
I love this magazine.

454
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:48.180
Holy crap, I love this, mate. it's so much.

455
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.680
It's so great.

456
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:51.539
No Jupiter 8.

457
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:57.240
But it's such a terrific 60s style magazine, Mars toothpaste.

458
00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:59.099
We don't want to watch that.

459
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:01.920
Can you just flip through the magazine so we can look at the other

460
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:02.640
words, yeah.

461
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:05.759
Taken from the names of false gods.

462
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:08.220
Although, I do think it was a bit much.

463
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.740
It was Jupiter on one page, Mars on the next.

464
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:11.759
Venus on the next.

465
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.339
They do that, though.

466
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.660
It's still sort of a thing.

467
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:17.819
So it's, I don't know.

468
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:19.019
The...

469
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:23.220
Like, there's something about these people that I like, and I do

470
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:27.839
like the fact that Flavius, Marcus, Flavius Maximus, rather, used

471
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.680
to be a gladiator, and now he's a Christian, and he doesn't want

472
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:37.259
to kill, and he's against the games, and that, see, why is this

473
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:38.460
guy called Merricus?

474
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.759
Why is the, so they call him the 1st citizen, which is what the

475
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:45.720
emperor was called.

476
00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:48.240
He was the Primkebs, the 1st citizen.

477
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.480
He wasn't a monarch, originally, when Augustus takes over. just

478
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:52.859
the chief citizen.

479
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.720
And so they use that term.

480
00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:57.359
They don't talk about the emperor, do they, in this?

481
00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:58.619
They don't talk about the emperor at all.

482
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:00.119
They talk about the 1st citizen.

483
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:03.240
But that's what the Romans called, called Augustus.

484
00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:05.940
But he's called Americus.

485
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.759
Like, I just can't think he's called Americus, and we're not

486
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:10.380
trying to say anything about America.

487
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.900
You know, like it just seems like an odd coincidence.

488
00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:14.819
I didn't even get that you know.

489
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.119
But do you think, am I just going crazy?

490
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.519
Maybe they just thought Merrick was a cool name and then he would

491
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:21.240
be America's.

492
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:27.240
He's like spokesperson for America, devout Christian, doesn't want

493
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:27.960
to hurt anybody.

494
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:29.519
No, no, no, no.

495
00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:30.480
This guy's Septimus.

496
00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:32.160
Americus is the 1st citizen.

497
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:37.019
Americus is the bad guy, the guy from the SSB Eagle, who is now

498
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:41.519
the emperor and has Claudius Marcus as his proconsol.

499
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.339
There's too many of these bloody Roman names, Nathan.

500
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.240
Yeah.

501
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:50.579
So, so Flavus and Septimus are the 2 Christians who speak, and

502
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:55.200
then Americus is the, the, the guy Merrick, who Kirk knows.

503
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:56.579
So what are they trying to say then?

504
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:57.660
What do you think they're trying to say?

505
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.019
Well, I don't know, but I think that it's obvious to draw a

506
00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:04.740
parallel between 20th century, between 20th century America and

507
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:05.220
Rome.

508
00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:06.839
Do you know what I mean?

509
00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:08.579
Like that seems like an obvious thing to do.

510
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.220
Um, And they've already kind of made the joke about comparing

511
00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:17.640
slaves to employees, you know, the slaves have kind of gradually

512
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.720
become employees.

513
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.059
Um, Yeah.

514
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:22.079
I don't know.

515
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:24.839
And if Americus is a massive sellout, like he is here.

516
00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:27.599
What are we trying to say about America?

517
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.099
Well, no, no, I just think that because he just, he's the chief, I

518
00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:32.519
don't know.

519
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:33.480
It's just a name.

520
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:34.319
Do you know what I mean?

521
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:35.700
But it just makes you think of America.

522
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.839
I can't imagine Gene Roddenbury's putting that much forward to

523
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:40.259
this.

524
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.339
Maybe, maybe.

525
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.000
Who knows?

526
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:43.740
I mean, yeah.

527
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:44.640
Yeah.

528
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.160
Do we have a shootout now?

529
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:52.380
Well, I'm going to talk and then the police turn up and start

530
00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:53.220
shooting at the trees.

531
00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:58.559
We are going to talk a little bit about Christianity as well.

532
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:04.019
And my favourite bit of dialogue about this is Flavia says, you

533
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:07.440
know, like Flavia still wants to kill and sometimes thinks he has

534
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:08.039
to kill.

535
00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:14.160
And when he 1st meets Spock McCoy and Kirk, he considers killing

536
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:16.920
them as a thing, and I know killing's evil, but I kind of want to

537
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:17.220
do it.

538
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.119
But he also knows that all men are brothers.

539
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:26.640
And I like, there's a bit where Kirk just says, he doesn't say, um

540
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.779
you know, your religion's right or the son is real or whatever, but

541
00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:34.980
he does say, no, but you're right, all men are brothers, and I

542
00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:35.700
like that a lot.

543
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:36.779
I think that's great.

544
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:38.279
That's very Star Trekie.

545
00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:43.859
So within all of this, uh, I want to say tedium, that's too strong

546
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:47.880
of a word. within all of this confused narrative.

547
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:49.200
There are little moments.

548
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:50.220
Little gems.

549
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:50.700
Yeah.

550
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:55.079
And, you know, like, like, I don't know.

551
00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.079
Is there something in the 60s happening, are there Jesus people?

552
00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:02.039
I just don't know what's enough about what how this landed at the

553
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.200
time. don't think what it's trying to be. is clear enough in

554
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:04.440
itself.

555
00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:07.799
Maybe if it was, then you wouldn't be asking those questions, you

556
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:07.980
know?

557
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:09.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

558
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:13.980
And like there is always, even that sort of the cheesy kind of B

559
00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:16.859
movie 50s and crap an earlier.

560
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:17.640
Do you know what I mean?

561
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.279
Where you have to kind of pretend that Christianity is true or

562
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:21.720
America's important or whatever.

563
00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:25.440
Um, like it does seem like a little bit of a throwback to that.

564
00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:27.599
It doesn't seem to fit in Star Trek at all.

565
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.880
It's bafflingly weird, isn't it?

566
00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:31.559
Well, it's rottenberry a question.

567
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:33.059
I don't know.

568
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:34.859
Well, no, he's so horny.

569
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:36.779
I just thought he must have been, you know, like that.

570
00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:38.339
Most Christians are a nation.

571
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:45.539
I just thought he was like, you know, like a kind of leftist of

572
00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:46.079
some kind.

573
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:50.579
I mean, I'm a little bit horny watching them in those gray, um

574
00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:52.259
those gray outfits now.

575
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.599
William Shadow looks lovely in it.

576
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.759
Is this random news film or they actually gone out and shot that?

577
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:03.359
I don't know, but you can see they've got American style

578
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:04.200
buildings.

579
00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:07.619
This one is the Legion of Honour art gallery in San Francisco.

580
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:13.259
Trouble is, is you have these hugely ornate outside shots and then

581
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:15.180
we come into the studios and they're all tiny.

582
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:17.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

583
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:17.940
Yeah.

584
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.400
Although this isn't too bad.

585
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:21.599
Is it this prison set?

586
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:23.220
I think we've been in this set.

587
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:27.000
This is, you know, like the equivalent of the cade set in 90s

588
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:27.420
trek.

589
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.819
We were in a prison set in that.

590
00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:32.579
The one where the green woman exploded. you remember?

591
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.539
Ah, yeah, yeah. that's true They just keep they keep the bars and

592
00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:37.920
just put the different walls out.

593
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:39.000
Put different walls in.

594
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.819
Different gels, different gels.

595
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:42.900
So we're lighting this one red.

596
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:44.640
It is lovely light, though.

597
00:26:47.700 --> 00:26:51.839
And there's, they do do some nice bits with um, how Spock and

598
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.019
McCoy. care about Kirk in this.

599
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:56.759
Well, there's a couple of character bits in this.

600
00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:57.359
They are quite nice.

601
00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:01.200
Yeah, so I just don't know.

602
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:05.819
That snippy relationship between McCoy and Spark.

603
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:10.859
It just feels like a bit well trodden at this and he automatically

604
00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:14.700
goes to the ears and then Spock automatically raises his eyebrow

605
00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:18.240
and I'm like, I know I know you've sort of discovered this is fun

606
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.759
and this can reap some character rewards.

607
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.579
But I was like, oh, we're still doing this.

608
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:30.720
Yeah, so slavery evolving into an institution, he said.

609
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.240
Yeah, no, and obviously it was already an institution.

610
00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:37.440
I don't know what he means by institution, but I think, you know

611
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.160
where people have rights and stuff like that.

612
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:43.319
I don't know.

613
00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:48.299
I think I think my big problem with this was the very 1st scene

614
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:52.619
was like the bullshit explanation as to how this parallel

615
00:27:52.619 --> 00:27:53.519
evolution happened.

616
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.720
I just didn't buy it.

617
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:57.480
So from the from the off, I'm like, yeah, I just don't believe

618
00:27:57.480 --> 00:27:59.099
that this would ever happen.

619
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.460
And I know it has and it's being presented and that's Star Trek

620
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:03.539
and all of that.

621
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:09.900
But I also, you know, like if if we're going to throw things out

622
00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:13.319
on the grounds of just how plausible the premises, kind of the

623
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:14.279
whole show goes.

624
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:18.599
You know, like, you've not remember when I watched Genesis.

625
00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:21.539
I was tearing my hair out in that one.

626
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:26.819
But this, you know, this is just a thing they decide not to do.

627
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.079
Do you know what I mean?

628
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:31.500
This is a slider's premise in some ways, isn't it?

629
00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:35.940
Like you slide into a parallel universe where the Roman Empire

630
00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:36.599
never fell.

631
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.759
I mean this is way more entertaining than that.

632
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:40.140
Did you ever watch sliders?

633
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.240
It was always just a little bit to the left.

634
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:45.779
You know, it was never fun enough to watch.

635
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.140
He said there that all men are brothers is something that was kept

636
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:50.220
from us all these years.

637
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.220
It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

638
00:28:53.339 --> 00:29:00.720
No, but like just because this is a society that treats people

639
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:05.519
with such brutality, where there's such inequality, you know, where

640
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:09.420
people go to the arena and watch people get killed for

641
00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:14.099
entertainment, and that becomes a big problem for Christianity.

642
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.880
Do you know what I mean?

643
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.900
Like Christianity, whatever it becomes, when it 1st starts, there

644
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.599
are people who say we don't go to the theatre, we don't go to the

645
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.799
games, they're brutal and cruel, and, you know, Christians were

646
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.019
martyred at events like this.

647
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.559
I wonder then, I don't know.

648
00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:33.480
I wonder then if as presented.

649
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:36.839
This isn't as brutal as it could be because I wasn't really seeing

650
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:38.640
a brutal society.

651
00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:41.579
I was just seeing a couple of people with shitty plastic swords

652
00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:42.539
gang.

653
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:43.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

654
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:44.460
The plastic shields and stuff.

655
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:46.319
That's right, because they can't properly sell it.

656
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:49.019
It might be telling us, but I'm not really seeing it.

657
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.599
No, I do just love later, though.

658
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:56.640
Did you see the guy that when when Spock gives the guy the Falcon

659
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.579
neck pinch and he looks at the camera and his mouth opens and he

660
00:29:59.579 --> 00:30:00.480
kind of falls down?

661
00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:04.859
he does such a dramatic going unconscious bit of acting as well

662
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.960
fabulous Vulcan history.

663
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.240
Next picture is later on, isn't it, when they're fighting?

664
00:30:09.299 --> 00:30:13.319
Although, please watch McCoy when they're in the gladiatorial

665
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:17.039
arena because he keeps looking at Spock whilst fighting with his

666
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.880
sword at the same time.

667
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.460
I'm like, will you fucking focus?

668
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.680
Because there's that moment where Flavius, who's fighting him, says

669
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.880
can you defend yourself?

670
00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:30.299
You know, can you and at least defend yourself?

671
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:31.859
And he goes, I am defending myself.

672
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.779
The cameras are rolling, mate.

673
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:35.279
They've given you good lying.

674
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:37.920
Oh, dear.

675
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.720
So this is Mercus, who was the captain of the Beagle and was known

676
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:47.099
to Kirk from the academy, but he dropped out.

677
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.000
You are right.

678
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:51.420
We do do this a couple of times because that fellow, when the

679
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:55.079
green woman exploded, he was an ex, an ex Starfleet man, wasn't he

680
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:55.440
as well?

681
00:30:55.500 --> 00:31:00.839
Well, in fact, Strangely Worlds did this, this premise, the thing

682
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:01.799
that it reminded me of.

683
00:31:01.859 --> 00:31:06.599
There's an episode called Among the Lotus Eaters where a former

684
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:12.599
crew member who I think Pike thinks was left for dad is found to

685
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:17.160
be the ruler of a planet, but they go and visit.

686
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:21.839
And so they've, they borrow from this.

687
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:25.500
Is it a fabulous Roman inspire planet?

688
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:26.519
No, no?

689
00:31:26.579 --> 00:31:27.599
No, not at all.

690
00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:31.140
It's very weird and kind of miserable that episode. thought it was

691
00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:31.440
interesting.

692
00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:32.579
Look at this set.

693
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.700
I know I said I'll talk about the design a bit, but a fabulously

694
00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:38.819
lit bed in the background there, the flaming torch in the front.

695
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.359
There's a big pot there and those bloody furs on the floor.

696
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:45.119
I know, they look so shit, don't they?

697
00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:47.940
Someone's cut out a carpet, doesn't it?

698
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

699
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.880
It's very sparse.

700
00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:52.799
It doesn't look very good.

701
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:54.779
It doesn't look particularly Roman, I think.

702
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.180
Oh, look, here's the height of sophistication.

703
00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:59.220
Salad on a plate.

704
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.579
Well, so there's the thing here.

705
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:09.180
So there's a, you know, a public historian, um, merry bed, who, uh

706
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:10.619
you might have seen on television.

707
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:19.619
She's a Roman historian, and she says that it's the 1st time that

708
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:25.980
it gets mentioned in a TV episode that said in ancient Rome that

709
00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:29.279
dormice are mentioned as something that you might eat.

710
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:30.180
Okay.

711
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:34.920
And and the fires of Pompeii and Doctor Who mentions it almost

712
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:35.640
immediately.

713
00:32:35.700 --> 00:32:37.500
I think Peter Capole to get to mention it.

714
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.619
Here we don't mention it, but it swallows.

715
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:46.740
I think it's like birds in Garum and Garum is the fish sauce, a

716
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:48.900
little bit like fish sauce from Southeast Asia.

717
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.920
It was one of the big experts of exports of Pompeii.

718
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:56.819
It was like, um, and it was just like you leave the fish to rot

719
00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.940
and ferment and voila profit.

720
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.900
You can sell it, and it's called fish sauce, and it would have

721
00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:07.079
just been absolutely fucking...

722
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:10.799
But all of the descriptions of Roman food that you get to read and

723
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:15.299
are just like, oh, no, so this is eel fed on sewage.

724
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:18.420
And it's, you know, like, oh, dear idea.

725
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:23.220
I'll put some strange things in my mouth in my time, but the

726
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:24.539
things you've just described.

727
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:25.859
I may think twice.

728
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:31.140
Yeah, see this, he's kind of saying, they have slavery here in

729
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:34.380
ancient Rome, and it's kind of like, this is the 20th century.

730
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:39.059
You know, how many decades away are we from slavery in the United

731
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:40.319
States, you know?

732
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.119
And Spock spectacularly fails to get the numbers right when

733
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:50.579
listing the fatalities during the 1st 2nd and as yet to come 3rd

734
00:33:50.579 --> 00:33:51.420
World War.

735
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.819
I think he'd probably write about the 3rd World War.

736
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:55.920
Well, yeah, well, yeah.

737
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.460
I can't really dismiss it.

738
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:03.599
But when memory alpha, who obviously they get their details.

739
00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:04.079
Right, right.

740
00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:08.820
Yeah, when they list it, he's out by quite a lot and in the wrong

741
00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:09.900
direction as well.

742
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:12.119
Okay, amazing.

743
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.400
I'm very unlike Spock though.

744
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:17.880
Yes, yes.

745
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:22.139
So this world didn't have the 3 world wars in the 21st century.

746
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:22.500
Is that it?

747
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:23.940
That's right.

748
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:27.539
But they have been slaughtering people in their games and

749
00:34:27.539 --> 00:34:28.320
slavery.

750
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:29.159
Yeah, yeah.

751
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:30.960
For the same amount of time.

752
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:32.219
So, yeah, sure.

753
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:33.960
That's what this argument's about, is it?

754
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:35.639
They're no better and no worse.

755
00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:42.960
I think part of the problem is that no one wears a toga.

756
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.659
What, there's no visual.

757
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.280
Yeah.

758
00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:48.659
Don't you think?

759
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:50.760
Like, he's wearing some spangly ass thing here.

760
00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:56.699
He looks very little pants, you know, like the slaves wearing tiny

761
00:34:56.699 --> 00:34:58.500
shorts and gray t-shirts and stuff.

762
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.800
It looks like he's dressed up from the mediaeval times.

763
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:03.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

764
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:06.900
And you just sort of think, if this is ancient Rome, sell it to me

765
00:35:06.900 --> 00:35:07.739
as ancient Rome.

766
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.719
Like, if we're doing a gladiator, because...

767
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:11.280
What is true?

768
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:11.880
When she comes in.

769
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:12.780
Has she got a toga?

770
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.920
Oh, some, I don't know. 1960s chiffon, yeah.

771
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:17.820
Yeah, that's right.

772
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.599
Oh, they must be sophisticated.

773
00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:24.960
Look at that pot behind Spark, and there's a lovely statue behind

774
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.880
McCoy.

775
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:28.920
Yes, yes, I did see that.

776
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:30.420
And the police too.

777
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.440
They just look shit.

778
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:33.000
Maybe they look like Italian police.

779
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:36.000
It does look like ribena though, doesn't it?

780
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:40.380
You're a connoisseur of red wine, you know, you wouldn't drink it

781
00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:41.400
without watery, would you?

782
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:42.840
I don't think so.

783
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:46.739
Oh, this stuff with Scottish.

784
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:47.280
Do you know what?

785
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.039
As we've explored the original series.

786
00:35:50.099 --> 00:35:51.960
I find Scotty a bit annoying.

787
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:54.840
Do you?

788
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:57.119
I just, yeah, I just don't think there's much about him, but he

789
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.539
sort of sits there on the bridge full of arrogance, like, something

790
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:02.159
suspicious is going on down there.

791
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:02.820
We'll wait.

792
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.159
So who do you think is better?

793
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:06.960
Scotty or Arax?

794
00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:09.000
Oh, Axe is amazing.

795
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:16.380
I don't know I get the impression that Jimmy Dewan, I have read

796
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:20.159
some bits to confirm this, that he was a bit sick of not getting

797
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:23.880
enough to do, which is why they start bumping up his row in too.

798
00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:25.199
And then a lot in 3.

799
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.760
Oh, okay.

800
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:32.219
So we do get Scotty in the final episode of series 2 of Strange

801
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.800
New World, and he's played by someone Scottish.

802
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:39.300
It's revolutionary.

803
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.780
They don't care about Star Trek's legacy.

804
00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:51.360
It was one of my favourite jokes in Star Trek, Picard, where on La

805
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:58.079
Serena, Rios had the emergency engineering hologram, which was

806
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:02.400
just him doing a shitty fake Scottie Jackson.

807
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.880
But he sounded just like Jimmy, Jimmy, do it.

808
00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:12.539
I mean, we know how dextrous his voice is after watching the

809
00:37:12.539 --> 00:37:13.440
animated series.

810
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:17.579
As we've said, master of dialect, Jimmy Tuan.

811
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:22.079
See, at this point, there's too much talk.

812
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:23.219
Get him in the arena already.

813
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.960
No, I'm super bored at this point.

814
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:25.500
I think.

815
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.039
Yeah.

816
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:26.639
Yeah.

817
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:29.280
We've had enough of these luxurious surroundings now.

818
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:33.300
Now we're going to look at this Brazier for a while.

819
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:39.900
Did you see him there with his fingers steepled?

820
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.059
I wonder if they'll put on a good show.

821
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:46.559
Oh here we go.

822
00:37:46.619 --> 00:37:48.599
Up to the Enterprise now.

823
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:51.300
Look, look at him sitting there on the bridge and like he's

824
00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:51.900
Captain Kirk.

825
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:53.579
Like he owns the place.

826
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:54.239
Yeah.

827
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:56.519
Who's behind it, guy?

828
00:37:56.579 --> 00:37:57.900
Please give me a line, anything.

829
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.179
Oh, say anything about gold.

830
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.099
Talk about the Son of God at the end.

831
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:04.559
Is that Chekov?

832
00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:05.400
not entirely sure.

833
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:07.139
Yeah, yeah, no, it's Chekhov.

834
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:07.860
Chehov.

835
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.059
Bless him.

836
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.000
I've been watching Walter Canick, you know, on Babylon 5.

837
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:13.500
That show that you've never heard of.

838
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.840
No, I didn't even know what it is.

839
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:17.880
He's very sinister, isn't it, though?

840
00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:20.760
I didn't know he could act, especially after watching him in Star

841
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:21.119
Trek.

842
00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:25.739
Oh, look at him.

843
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:28.139
Jimmy doing that knowing sort of nought.

844
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:30.000
Come on.

845
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:33.480
So he gets them out of it, doesn't he?

846
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.460
And he's going, I'm really going to threaten them and what does he

847
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:35.699
do?

848
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.420
He cuts the power to the TV studio at a vital moment.

849
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:40.320
That was nice then.

850
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:40.920
Did you say?

851
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:44.940
He started the shot on the backcloth of the cloisters and then he

852
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:46.920
pulls away.

853
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.900
Yeah, see the thing.

854
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:50.940
And so my favourite thing.

855
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:52.320
Were they doing the candles?

856
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.840
That is...

857
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:57.480
That's the best part of the episode is the guy on the soundboard

858
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.820
with the big dials that say...

859
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:01.199
But you know where I figured this was going?

860
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:05.699
So they start talking about TV in the very 1st scene and then we

861
00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:07.199
realise this has all been broadcast.

862
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:10.920
I thought this was going to be about television rather than about

863
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:12.239
Romans.

864
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:14.699
And I think that might be a bit more fun.

865
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.519
The desperate things you have to do to get your ratings up.

866
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:21.059
Yeah, I mean, gestures at it, doesn't it?

867
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:22.260
It sort of hints at it.

868
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:26.579
So this show is called name the winner, and it's sponsored by the

869
00:39:26.579 --> 00:39:29.519
people who brought you Jupiter 8, and it's called name the winner

870
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:30.659
because you name the winner.

871
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.320
Oddly, there's no studio audience, probably because we can't

872
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:34.860
afford one.

873
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:38.280
Is that a genuine 1960s camera there?

874
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:42.300
I don't know, I hope so. fucking imagine if it is.

875
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah. very impressive.

876
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:46.739
It's that size.

877
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.440
Oh, these 2 gladiators.

878
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:51.659
Russell Crowe, are they?

879
00:39:52.139 --> 00:39:52.980
No, no.

880
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:54.539
But this is the best bit.

881
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.000
The guy, even his label as sound effects.

882
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:02.099
You know how on Batman, everything has a label, like on the 60s

883
00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:04.739
Batman from this era, literally everything is labelled.

884
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.460
And so sound effects guy is sitting in a board, which is labelled

885
00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:12.059
sound effects from so that you know what it is.

886
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:17.579
And he's got 4 big tiles that say laughter, cat calls, booze.

887
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:20.039
They couldn't come to town, couldn't they?

888
00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:21.719
They could have had backdrop written next to that.

889
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:26.820
They could have had, you know, shitty statuettes, switch it to the

890
00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:27.179
left there.

891
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:33.000
So these guys are wearing helmets of of Mormilones, which are a

892
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.320
type of Roman gladiator.

893
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:36.539
So there we're trying a bit.

894
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:40.619
He's unlike unlike D, who's not trying at all.

895
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:44.280
When I was 8 years old, right?

896
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:46.440
Me and my sister had foam swords.

897
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:50.579
Okay, which we would go at each other, we would have sword fights

898
00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:52.079
and it was more vicious than this.

899
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:53.099
I'm telling you.

900
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:55.739
Yeah, yeah, but these guys are scared of hitting one another.

901
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:59.159
Like, at least, like, so notice too.

902
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:04.980
So we've had the da, da, da, da. music early on, like almost

903
00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:05.760
immediately.

904
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:10.619
We are going to get the da, da, da, da, da, da, da music for

905
00:41:10.619 --> 00:41:10.920
this.

906
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:15.719
They've been cancelled.

907
00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.219
We can't have any original music.

908
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.320
I just use this.

909
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:23.579
Booze, hisses, and catcalls. hisses, booses, and catcalls.

910
00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:27.059
I do imagine if we...

911
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:28.980
We should get that board for the podcast.

912
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:34.860
I like the juxtaposition of the Roman gear and the machine gun.

913
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:36.420
I think that's a really fun visual.

914
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:38.940
Yeah, yeah. when they come in with machine guns.

915
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:39.960
I think that's pretty awesome.

916
00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:43.860
But I hate these cheap arse plastic sheer will save God.

917
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.260
They look so cheap and lightweight.

918
00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:50.460
Well, yeah, I think they're kind of probably aluminium painted a

919
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:52.079
bright colour of very light metal.

920
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:54.179
I think they are metal, aren't they?

921
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:56.400
I don't know, but they look really shitty, don't they?

922
00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:59.159
They might just switch it on now and you'd be like, oh, they're

923
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:00.960
really not making an effort anymore in Star Trek.

924
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.179
I can see the studio lights over there.

925
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:07.559
Budget cuts.

926
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:09.960
We've just pulled in any old asshole to direct this thing.

927
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.760
Those gladiators are wearing very tiny pants.

928
00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:15.480
Look at them.

929
00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:16.800
A little skirts, aren't they?

930
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:19.860
But imagine for a second. none of this would never happen.

931
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:23.099
But you imagine that arena from Attack of the Clones.

932
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:23.639
Do you remember?

933
00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:26.820
That huge arena where they've, that's what this should be like, you

934
00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:27.059
know?

935
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.000
Yeah, of course. in story terms.

936
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:33.719
Do you know, I hate Attack of the Clones so much.

937
00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:37.440
It's such a shitty film, but the arena been at the end.

938
00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:38.579
That's great.

939
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:43.559
I am defending myself.

940
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:45.840
He's not even broken a fucking sweat.

941
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:47.340
There's no blood on him or anything.

942
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:48.900
It's like...

943
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:49.800
You know.

944
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:51.360
At least in the 90s, right?

945
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:53.340
They do get a bit roughed up when they have a fight.

946
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:55.800
You know, the hair falls into disarray, at least.

947
00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:59.579
And they'll give them a bruise or a, you know, blood or

948
00:42:59.579 --> 00:42:59.820
something.

949
00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:03.300
But that time when Kira got stabbed in Way of the Warrior, and the

950
00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:05.400
knife was in her, all her blood was all over her uniform.

951
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:07.199
Yeah, yeah.

952
00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:10.260
Oh, well, it's the 60s, a more innocent time.

953
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.980
Yeah, and like, I don't even know what's happening in this scene

954
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:14.460
as well.

955
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:19.320
Like, I mean, he's trying to outside him or out or something like

956
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:20.460
like, what do we want?

957
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:24.300
Like, what does Claudius Marcus want the captain to do?

958
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.539
Or does he want him to bring his men down?

959
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:31.860
And so this is supposed to persuade Kirk to bring his men down to

960
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:32.639
the planet?

961
00:43:32.699 --> 00:43:35.099
What, so they can fight and?

962
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:36.719
Well, just, I don't know.

963
00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:40.440
Oh, remember because he didn't want, he didn't want the beagle to

964
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.840
leave, so obviously he doesn't want the enterprise to leave.

965
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:44.940
And is Kirk just here to take his mate away?

966
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:46.440
Is that the only reason he's come down here?

967
00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:49.559
Well, he's come to rescue them because they were stranded, but

968
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:52.920
fortunately, they're all dead except for, and then later on, he's

969
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:54.539
dead. isn't he?

970
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:55.860
He's the captain.

971
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:58.679
He's there. drink at all of this. fucking emperor.

972
00:43:58.739 --> 00:44:00.659
So as soon as they realise this, shouldn't they have just gone?

973
00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:03.179
Yeah.

974
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.280
Oh, it would be a short episode then.

975
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:08.400
Oh, I do like the fellow in the background there.

976
00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:10.559
Just see him in the soup with the handheld camera.

977
00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

978
00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:16.079
Maybe that's how you do the handheld camera work.

979
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:18.719
We're getting a good education, 60s TV making here.

980
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.219
Actually, there's some nice thighs on display as well, it looks

981
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:23.519
like.

982
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:27.780
I actually really like that blocking the scene with like...

983
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:30.719
Oh, there's...

984
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.280
There's Double Dare.

985
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:34.440
So bad. completely different hair.

986
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:36.599
It could be anyone's stunt double.

987
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:37.440
No.

988
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.619
Leonard Nimmo is hot though when he's in action.

989
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:43.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is, isn't he?

990
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:46.320
Jad Singer Dax was right.

991
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.820
Yep, yeah.

992
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:48.420
Yeah, yeah.

993
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:50.340
Oh, fact.

994
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.099
Do you remember when they were doing all that talking and we said

995
00:44:53.099 --> 00:44:53.940
get on with the action?

996
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:57.000
Yeah, now they're doing reaction.

997
00:44:57.059 --> 00:44:58.860
I just wish I'd get back to the talking, you know?

998
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.480
Well, no, I don't know.

999
00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:02.400
I just do think that both of them are boring.

1000
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.139
I can't believe there's still 14 minutes to go.

1001
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:05.519
Like what the hell are you going to do?

1002
00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:07.019
It just feels directionist, doesn't it?

1003
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.440
It feels like, yeah, one, they haven't taken hold of the idea and

1004
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:14.940
sort of explored it in any interesting sort of a way.

1005
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.940
And two, I just don't really know what anyone's trying to achieve

1006
00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:18.360
at this point.

1007
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:19.320
And why?

1008
00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:23.519
Yeah, because this should be the climax, but it isn't.

1009
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:28.559
And then we come back to here after faffing about with the scene

1010
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.559
with Drusilla, and then there's another scene where Claudius

1011
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:36.239
Marcus, whose name is just irritatingly backwards. for some

1012
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:36.599
reason.

1013
00:45:36.659 --> 00:45:40.079
I don't know why he's not Marcus Claudius, but like whatever.

1014
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:43.920
Are you suggesting that if Kirk didn't have his contractual

1015
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:45.539
obligation to get his end away?

1016
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.159
We could have ended the episode right now.

1017
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:51.780
Yeah, well, like we just go back here after this.

1018
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:55.980
Like, he has sex with Drew Cilla in, like, she sells the

1019
00:45:55.980 --> 00:46:01.980
enthusiastic consent thing, but she's a slave, and she constantly

1020
00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:03.599
talks, so it's yucky.

1021
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.179
There's something yucky about it.

1022
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.260
That's not...

1023
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.960
I think we would rather think more of Captain Kirk if he said, no

1024
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:10.559
you're all right.

1025
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:12.059
I'm just going to bed.

1026
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:15.300
Instead, he goes, oh, you have to do this, do you?

1027
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:16.199
Well, let's go.

1028
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.659
Yeah, that's right, you.

1029
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:22.199
I mean, she does seem to be into it, but like, what is she

1030
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:22.619
wearing?

1031
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:26.460
That's, uh, I think a lot of people in the Second World War, you

1032
00:46:26.460 --> 00:46:28.920
know, slept with German people and made it look as if they were

1033
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:29.820
really enjoying themselves.

1034
00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:31.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1035
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:32.219
That's right.

1036
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.619
You just do what you have to to survive.

1037
00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:39.780
But yes, so it is kind of a bit yucky, isn't it?

1038
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:43.980
I mean, look, a fabulous 60s hair, though.

1039
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:44.400
Look at it.

1040
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:46.800
I know, the hair is really incredible.

1041
00:46:46.860 --> 00:46:48.900
Somewhat get her a Hollywood contract now.

1042
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:53.820
Someone has invented peroxide in the last 2000 years.

1043
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:55.920
Maybe she should be in a toga.

1044
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:58.320
That's a very science fiction-y costume she's got.

1045
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.719
Yeah, yeah. that's what I think.

1046
00:47:00.780 --> 00:47:03.659
I just never buy it Like, if you want to make it roam, then go for

1047
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:03.900
it.

1048
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:05.460
You see, I can only...

1049
00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:07.079
It's only an on, mate, the set design.

1050
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:08.340
A bit?

1051
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:09.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1052
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.719
Set designers, will you please talk to the costumiers, please?

1053
00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:13.980
Exactly.

1054
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.320
Oh, this is quite a nice scene.

1055
00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:17.519
I like this scene.

1056
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.500
And particularly the way that he says, I'm just testing the war

1057
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:29.219
the bars and McCoy says for the 15th time. superhuman strength

1058
00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:29.820
spot then.

1059
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.260
Yeah, of course he does.

1060
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:32.760
Oh, I can't even bend the balls then.

1061
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:37.440
Well, just, you know, they, they're too strong for Vulcans as

1062
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:37.619
well.

1063
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:38.340
Okay.

1064
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:42.599
Yeah, like I kind of like that.

1065
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:46.440
So this gets quite heated and most of them are being pricks, aren't

1066
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:46.679
they?

1067
00:47:46.739 --> 00:47:54.300
Because McCoy wants to thank Spock for saving his life and Spock

1068
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:58.559
is being a dick about it and refuses to accept his thanks and sort

1069
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.820
of analyses it and dismisses it, you know, where McCoy's actually

1070
00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:06.179
trying to be nice, and then McCoy just rounds on him and is a

1071
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:06.900
prick as well.

1072
00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:12.659
Because they're frustrated, but then they find a moment that

1073
00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:14.940
connects them when they both actually admit.

1074
00:48:15.059 --> 00:48:19.559
It's just like, well, it's beautiful, and it's, it's, it's, um

1075
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:24.719
it's McCoy who says, yes, I'm really worried about Jim as well, and

1076
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.780
Spock acknowledges it, and I thought that was very nice.

1077
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:32.519
And like if this was the end of the show, then that resolves it.

1078
00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:34.980
You pointed your own Hobgoblin.

1079
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:37.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1080
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.019
Yeah, so he's being a pretty...

1081
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:43.019
Do not ever complain about the term spoonhead again, all right?

1082
00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:45.840
I did like it, though.

1083
00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:49.619
The inference is that Spock is scared to let his humans like that

1084
00:48:49.619 --> 00:48:50.039
isn't it?

1085
00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:51.000
That's what he says to him.

1086
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.219
He goes, yeah, are you scared if you let it out?

1087
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:54.360
You actually might feel something.

1088
00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:55.739
Even this.

1089
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:59.760
The last of our ships search and whatever I think of his lovely

1090
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:00.719
skill.

1091
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:08.760
I'm gonna find an excuse for this and I'm gonna burn you as well.

1092
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:11.039
Good.

1093
00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:14.820
Oh, so it can be fun.

1094
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:18.900
But don't you think, like, this is their last chance to do this?

1095
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:22.559
And so they do it. and it kind of resolves in a way.

1096
00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.900
Like, this would be a nice place to leave them.

1097
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:28.500
You know, because that's a really cruel thing that he's saying

1098
00:49:28.500 --> 00:49:28.619
now.

1099
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:32.460
Well, you could never have a genuine do about a genuine, warm

1100
00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:32.940
feeling.

1101
00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:34.800
And he's he's slightly hurt.

1102
00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:35.519
Look at him.

1103
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:36.599
Look at how he's playing it.

1104
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:41.760
And then they look at each other Look, look.

1105
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:44.039
That's really very beautiful.

1106
00:49:44.099 --> 00:49:46.559
Then Def Forrest, he's down, doesn't he?

1107
00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:46.980
Yeah.

1108
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:47.880
That's right.

1109
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:53.159
Because Spock is playing it as genuinely hurt by what's been said

1110
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:58.500
and then they're in the, they are both feeling bereft, you know?

1111
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:01.139
Then we cut to him fucking.

1112
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:02.039
Do you know what I mean?

1113
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:04.980
Like, they're very white, and he's drinking wine with a beautiful

1114
00:50:04.980 --> 00:50:08.820
woman, which I also think are the cuts that seem beautifully.

1115
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.820
It's only we'd known we wouldn't have given a shit, you know?

1116
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:15.000
Of course he's having sex with a slave.

1117
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.980
Oh, I was going to say something that's totally left my head.

1118
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.780
Never mind.

1119
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:26.099
How many sons do you imagine Jim Kirk has around the universe

1120
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:26.219
now?

1121
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.079
Oh, God, I don't like to think about it.

1122
00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:30.780
Thank God they killed off David, that bastard.

1123
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.719
Did he sleep with that green woman before she exploded?

1124
00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:35.039
I won't ever stop talking about it.

1125
00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:37.980
Yeah, no, but I don't think there was enough time for her to give

1126
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:38.400
birth.

1127
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:42.900
So look at look at how they do the sex as well in this scene, which

1128
00:50:42.900 --> 00:50:44.460
I just think is as cheesy as well.

1129
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:47.039
They come upwards, and then when they go each you up.

1130
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:51.239
I know. they even fade. go up and then go down.

1131
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:52.320
Let's have a look.

1132
00:50:52.380 --> 00:50:53.820
So we're kissing.

1133
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:58.619
The camera goes up and looks at the lamp.

1134
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.000
Oh yeah, there you go.

1135
00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:00.659
Quick fade.

1136
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:03.780
So the lamp now the flames are gone. fade to the flames have

1137
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:04.079
gone.

1138
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:05.099
He's massive of time.

1139
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.440
Yeah, he hasn't taken his pants off.

1140
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:09.960
Sam only said sex with Drusilla without taking his pants off.

1141
00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:11.280
Oh, wow.

1142
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:13.320
Do you think he'd have his willy hanging out or something?

1143
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:14.460
Like, why is he...

1144
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:21.360
I do not need to see William Shatner's not being foulish.

1145
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.280
But he sees you had sex without tech.

1146
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:27.059
Oh, he's...

1147
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.139
Like, how's he falling?

1148
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:29.460
He's shown over and fall.

1149
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.760
A little inset into my sex life here, but very often, you know, as

1150
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:35.340
soon as I'm done, I'll have a shower and put my clothes back on.

1151
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:38.099
I'm not one to sit around naked, you know, all sticky.

1152
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:41.760
Yeah, no, no, but I thought he just sort of passed out of sleep

1153
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:43.199
after having sex, you see?

1154
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:45.300
I think he just undid his zipper and did it that way.

1155
00:51:46.019 --> 00:51:48.119
It's not that great.

1156
00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:51.900
I don't think that's that great. how desperate we've got in this

1157
00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:52.199
episode.

1158
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:57.539
Well, because now we're talking about, now we're talking about

1159
00:51:57.539 --> 00:52:00.539
we're talking to Claudius Marcus about whatever the fuck it is.

1160
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:01.739
What are we talking about now?

1161
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:05.820
Oh, Claudius Marcus said he sort of pimped him out.

1162
00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:10.440
Because you're a man to give him the last night of being a man

1163
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:11.699
before I have you executed.

1164
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.679
What does that even mean?

1165
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1166
00:52:15.420 --> 00:52:17.099
I mean, if I'd have been there?

1167
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:19.139
in that situation, I'd have been very disappointed.

1168
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:20.460
That's how you want me to go.

1169
00:52:20.579 --> 00:52:22.559
Yeah, no, that's true.

1170
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:25.320
I'd be like, send in one of your gladiators.

1171
00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:25.800
Come on.

1172
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:28.739
Yeah, I'll have a 2 leads.

1173
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:31.139
Oh, they're a slave, are they?

1174
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:33.059
Oh, I'm feeling a bit more re conflict.

1175
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:34.320
Now, let's go. do it anyway.

1176
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:38.039
Oh, dear.

1177
00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:41.159
Yeah, and so now we're going to have him executed.

1178
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:42.900
So all of that was kind of pointless.

1179
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:49.139
Like we just going to where we were. defiance because he's not

1180
00:52:49.139 --> 00:52:51.300
allowed to start calling his men down.

1181
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.519
I think it's because it's the climax of the story.

1182
00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:58.500
Yeah, I think perhaps in order to get us back in the TV studio.

1183
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:02.639
And they've sort of preempted the late show and so this is

1184
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.880
preempted, meaning that it's, you know, this is on.

1185
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:09.539
Like the execution's going to be on instead of the regularly

1186
00:53:09.539 --> 00:53:11.099
scheduled programming.

1187
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:15.900
We're going back to the, yeah, we preempted the show 15 minutes.

1188
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:19.019
Could, you know, going back to what you were saying earlier about

1189
00:53:19.019 --> 00:53:23.519
the parallels between the Roman Empire and 20th century America.

1190
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:26.519
Could this episode have reached a conclusion about this?

1191
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:30.960
Um, yeah, I don't know.

1192
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.199
No, it doesn't bother, but there are things that it could do.

1193
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:36.960
I mean, you just watch it and you think all of these things that

1194
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:37.679
could be done better.

1195
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:39.360
It's not really Roman enough.

1196
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:44.579
Beyond beyond it being a quirky idea, there's sort of visually

1197
00:53:44.579 --> 00:53:45.900
strange to watch.

1198
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:47.760
What's Star Trek about this?

1199
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:51.420
What's it saying about the human condition and seeking out new

1200
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:53.639
lives and new civilisations and all of this?

1201
00:53:53.699 --> 00:53:57.840
Yeah, no, it doesn't, we don't learn anything, do we?

1202
00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:59.400
It is just...

1203
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:03.900
I think this is the template for series three, which is, oh, my

1204
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:08.099
God, wouldn't it be great if, and then there's no thought at all

1205
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:10.139
behind... about what happens next?

1206
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:12.000
Yeah, so we just tap around.

1207
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:14.820
You should get a great free title sequence where they introduce

1208
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:17.400
the idea and then there is faffing around for the next 40

1209
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:17.760
minutes.

1210
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.059
Oh, Shatner really killed that guy good.

1211
00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:21.840
Look at that.

1212
00:54:22.139 --> 00:54:25.679
So, yeah, and again, it's so crap.

1213
00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:28.260
It's like the guy comes in with a machine gun and just kills a

1214
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:28.739
bunch of people.

1215
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.739
No, no, no, no. terrible with that gunny.

1216
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.119
He don't hit anyone at all.

1217
00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:33.900
No, no.

1218
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:38.460
No, but Flavius Maximus is dead now, you know, like the big old

1219
00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:42.719
gladiator guy, whatever the Lenista guy is dead.

1220
00:54:42.780 --> 00:54:45.539
Um, Yeah.

1221
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:48.179
Is this the bit now in a minute where he gets a knife in the back

1222
00:54:48.179 --> 00:54:49.260
or have I missed that bit?

1223
00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:51.599
No, that's coming.

1224
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:52.260
That's coming up.

1225
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.840
That's the only bit of blood you see in the whole thing.

1226
00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:57.599
The knife comes out and it's sort of got to be a tiny bit of jam

1227
00:54:57.599 --> 00:54:57.900
on it.

1228
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:00.420
Merrick saves him like Merrick saves him.

1229
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.360
We were always sort of headed now, though, weren't we?

1230
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:04.800
I think so.

1231
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:07.980
Yeah, because you've got Marcus, Claudius Marcus kind of

1232
00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:09.659
humiliating him all the time.

1233
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:13.559
Yeah, so the whole thing just, it kind of just devolves into a

1234
00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:14.159
load of action.

1235
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:16.559
Yeah, yeah, crappy action.

1236
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:17.639
Kind of poorly staked.

1237
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:18.179
Look at that.

1238
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:18.960
What's that?

1239
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:22.800
The police are knocking one another over. you know, like it's all

1240
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:23.519
just bullshit.

1241
00:55:23.579 --> 00:55:23.820
Okay.

1242
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.300
Now, the, um, oh, God, I've forgotten his name.

1243
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:29.639
He looks like he's dressed up for the generation game now.

1244
00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:32.099
He's got a sort of gold lame top on.

1245
00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:33.659
Yeah, yeah.

1246
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:37.079
So I kind of like this.

1247
00:55:38.219 --> 00:55:43.079
Yeah, so now Merrick dies after saving them and then they fire the

1248
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:45.780
machine guns into the thing and a gorgeous reaction there from

1249
00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:48.000
Marcus and then they've disappeared and that's the end of the

1250
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:51.960
episode, except we've got this embarrassing tag. sort of got his

1251
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.920
hand on his thigh like a panto villain and he's waving his knife

1252
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.400
about.

1253
00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:58.320
But no one's been punished.

1254
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:01.199
No one's been criticised or anything at all.

1255
00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:01.800
They just go.

1256
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:03.300
Yeah.

1257
00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:09.059
What we've have our fun. let's go Except what we get is this thing

1258
00:56:09.059 --> 00:56:14.699
where she says that the sun worshippers are worshipping not the

1259
00:56:14.699 --> 00:56:16.320
sun, but the sun of God.

1260
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:25.860
And then, then we get, um, them theorising, like immediately, um

1261
00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:33.000
uh, Kirk says, Caesar and Christ, they had them both, and now

1262
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:35.579
Christianity is going to spread.

1263
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:40.139
So Christianity spreads in our world, you know, gets going in the

1264
00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:41.400
1st century or whatever.

1265
00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:44.940
Here it's just getting going in the 20th century.

1266
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:48.420
And it...

1267
00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:52.139
Are they saying the 2 worlds are going to converge, like ours and

1268
00:56:52.139 --> 00:56:52.500
theirs?

1269
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:53.940
just we're just late.

1270
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.139
They're just late.

1271
00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:56.099
Yeah, yeah.

1272
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:59.400
But, I mean, the idea that Christianity is a philosophy of total

1273
00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:04.139
love and total brotherhood is true-ish, and, you know, on some

1274
00:57:04.139 --> 00:57:08.639
level, it's true, but in practice, you know, like that's not quite

1275
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:09.420
how it goes down.

1276
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:14.280
Let's count up how many people die. the Roman Empire compared to

1277
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:15.900
how many people died in holy wars.

1278
00:57:16.019 --> 00:57:17.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1279
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.039
And I seriously think, like, you have to count.

1280
00:57:20.099 --> 00:57:22.980
Well, War one. those were all Christian nations, you know, like

1281
00:57:22.980 --> 00:57:27.000
they were all populated by Christians, all just slaughtering each

1282
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:30.239
other in the 1000000s, you know, like it's one of the reasons I

1283
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:35.280
think that Christianity loses its grip on everyone in the 20th

1284
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:35.880
century.

1285
00:57:35.940 --> 00:57:38.039
British history is littered.

1286
00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:39.719
Yeah, yeah.

1287
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:41.880
Religious monarchs.

1288
00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:44.219
You have a good, good old Queen Mary, you know.

1289
00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:46.260
Start the fire.

1290
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:49.800
I don't think this is going to be a better earth as a result.

1291
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.900
No, yeah, I don't know.

1292
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:53.519
And yet they all sort of go so strange.

1293
00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:54.719
Oh, how jolly.

1294
00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:58.440
But it's kind of like, and then none of them will ever mention

1295
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:02.579
Christ again, and Christianity just never seems to be a thing.

1296
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.440
So what's happening there?

1297
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:08.099
And it, like, to be fair, McCoy does call Christianity a

1298
00:58:08.099 --> 00:58:12.179
philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.

1299
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:14.460
Do you know what I mean?

1300
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:18.780
So, like, and was such a, so see that shot there?

1301
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:22.800
Are you watching the closing credits or have you go to the next

1302
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:23.159
one now?

1303
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:25.019
Oh, it's the Simon Earth.

1304
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:25.500
How wonderful.

1305
00:58:25.619 --> 00:58:28.440
Yeah, it's a great one, isn't it?

1306
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:31.619
They're just choosing to go back in time as we speak.

1307
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.460
Do you remember?

1308
00:58:33.300 --> 00:58:36.900
Well, we'll just pop back in time and see what's happening.

1309
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:37.920
Yeah we can do that.

1310
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:41.699
We're talking about, we had our arms for next week.

1311
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:42.420
We've been cancelled.

1312
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.199
What's that?

1313
00:58:43.260 --> 00:58:45.000
We're coming back for series 3 shit.

1314
00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:49.139
It's such a lovely idea.

1315
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:53.519
It's such a lovely idea in concept, isn't it?

1316
00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:57.239
A brotherhood of man, peace, love, and all of that for everybody.

1317
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:02.039
And then you just put that idea into the heads of men and, well, it

1318
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:04.380
all falls apart, unfortunately.

1319
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:07.079
Yeah, a strange conclusion to draw.

1320
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:11.820
A very, very, very weird thing, which I did like they don't seem

1321
00:59:11.820 --> 00:59:12.539
to explain it.

1322
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.079
No one seems to acknowledge how bafflingly strange it is on memory

1323
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:16.619
alpha.

1324
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:19.860
I went there to say, what the hell do people think of this, you

1325
00:59:19.860 --> 00:59:20.039
know?

1326
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:22.679
Um, and maybe people think it's dumb.

1327
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:23.340
I don't know.

1328
00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:24.719
But...

1329
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:27.539
Well, there's no quotes about this. about everything else about

1330
00:59:27.539 --> 00:59:29.280
everyone arguing whilst making this episode.

1331
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:34.019
So, like, I think the only reference to religion apart from alien

1332
00:59:34.019 --> 00:59:39.059
religion in Star Trek, the Next Generation is Diwali, which gets a

1333
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:44.460
mention on data's day, which, you know, it takes place on the day

1334
00:59:44.460 --> 00:59:48.539
of the Festival of Diwali, so that gets a mention, so Hinduism is

1335
00:59:48.539 --> 00:59:51.780
still a thing or a tradition or something in the 24th century, but

1336
00:59:51.780 --> 00:59:56.280
no one's Christian in Star Trek, are they?

1337
00:59:56.340 --> 00:59:57.960
Like, it seems...

1338
00:59:58.019 --> 01:00:00.780
So when it comes to the conclusion that we're above all of that

1339
01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:02.940
and actually it was more trouble than it was worth.

1340
01:00:03.059 --> 01:00:06.179
Yeah, we've evolved it all.

1341
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:09.780
So this is a this is the polar opposite of that conclusion.

1342
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:13.980
But like I said earlier on, I just think the way that Nichelle

1343
01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:15.960
says, it's the son of God.

1344
01:00:16.019 --> 01:00:18.420
You know, like it's so great.

1345
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:19.860
She's so awesome.

1346
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:23.579
She's like, she's like Sigourney Weafer in Galaxy. to believe it.

1347
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:26.519
Do you know, she goes, I've only got 5 lines in this fucking

1348
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:29.699
episode and I'm going to make them all count.

1349
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:31.320
But she nails it.

1350
01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:32.820
It's superb.

1351
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:37.440
I have a suspicion that Gene Brodenbury wrote the bulk of this

1352
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:42.119
episode and that fabulous scene inside the cell between McCoy and

1353
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:42.539
Spock.

1354
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:44.099
Gene Coombe wrote that bit.

1355
01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:47.039
Now, I'm not saying Gene Coop wrote everything great and

1356
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:50.940
Roddenberry couldn't write anything because clearly...

1357
01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:53.039
He did some good scripts in season one.

1358
01:00:53.099 --> 01:00:55.019
It's just everything after that.

1359
01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.300
I think his toy box was emptied after that.

1360
01:00:57.659 --> 01:01:00.360
But that was just a bit...

1361
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:04.019
It's not flat because it's quite interesting to look at.

1362
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.860
It's doing some weird things and we like weird.

1363
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:09.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1364
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:13.260
I think I think you were right in recognising, and I hadn't

1365
01:01:13.260 --> 01:01:16.980
thought of this at the time, that it's crap in the particular way

1366
01:01:16.980 --> 01:01:23.039
that crap series 3 is crap, where there's a setting and some odd

1367
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:26.039
things going on, but basically most of the time we're standing

1368
01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:29.280
around talking and the villain is being a villain.

1369
01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:30.659
Yeah, space hippies.

1370
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:31.440
That would be a fun idea.

1371
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:33.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1372
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:35.219
And then we all just kind of hang around.

1373
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.599
Like there's no plot.

1374
01:01:36.659 --> 01:01:38.400
Like nothing, nothing happens.

1375
01:01:38.460 --> 01:01:41.940
What do you want in television?

1376
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:46.260
What if a load of evil children beamed onto the enterprise and

1377
01:01:46.260 --> 01:01:47.940
start turning everyone into killers?

1378
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.179
And that's a great idea until you do it and then you realise it's

1379
01:01:51.179 --> 01:01:52.139
really shit, you know?

1380
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:55.739
What if Spock lost his brain?

1381
01:01:56.099 --> 01:01:58.980
And they had to drive him by remote control.

1382
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:03.960
No, that was just a terrible idea. terrible, terrible idea.

1383
01:02:04.019 --> 01:02:07.440
I think June Coon was like, right, I don't ever want to write for

1384
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:08.039
this show again.

1385
01:02:08.099 --> 01:02:11.579
I'm going to write this script and they'll never ask me back. all

1386
01:02:11.579 --> 01:02:12.780
forget my telephone number.

1387
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:16.559
Mark Daniels looked at the script and went, I'll never directing

1388
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:16.980
this show again.

1389
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:20.460
Jane Roddenbury is like, is this what we're doing?

1390
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:20.940
I'm out.

1391
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:21.840
Freddie Freiburger.

1392
01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:22.320
It's yours.

1393
01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:25.199
Yeah, it's very, very strange.

1394
01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:30.119
I was expecting to really quite like this. and I was bored more

1395
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:30.960
often than not.

1396
01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:32.699
Yeah.

1397
01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:35.820
In a way that even the best and the worst of the original series

1398
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:36.900
hasn't before me.

1399
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:38.940
Yeah, a bit disappointing.

1400
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:39.840
Yeah.

1401
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:52.139
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to

1402
01:02:52.139 --> 01:02:54.780
find out what we're watching next.

1403
01:02:54.900 --> 01:03:00.300
We're leaving Imperial Rome behind, and it is time to go somewhere

1404
01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:00.659
else.

1405
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:01.920
Where else are we going?

1406
01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:03.780
We may not begin, though.

1407
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:05.159
I think there's other Roman episodes.

1408
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.679
We may be going back to Imperial Rome.

1409
01:03:07.739 --> 01:03:13.199
I have decided because the last couple of times I have chosen

1410
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:13.980
where we're going.

1411
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:18.300
It's been primarily 90s trek.

1412
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:23.820
So I am going to put in every Kurtzman show, including Short Treks

1413
01:03:23.820 --> 01:03:25.500
and see what we get.

1414
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:30.000
But chances are it be a discovery, because I think there's, it's

1415
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:31.079
that's the highest percentage.

1416
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:31.679
Most of them.

1417
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:32.219
Yeah.

1418
01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:33.840
Okay.

1419
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:35.280
Oh, one we've done.

1420
01:03:35.340 --> 01:03:39.000
Your random Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode is Strange New

1421
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:39.420
Worlds.

1422
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.219
Series one, episode one.

1423
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.840
Okay.

1424
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:45.960
Your random Star Trek lower deck?

1425
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:46.920
Oh my god.

1426
01:03:46.980 --> 01:03:47.639
Look.

1427
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:49.079
What is it?

1428
01:03:49.139 --> 01:03:52.260
A mathematically perfect redemption.

1429
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:53.639
Oh, yes, so good.

1430
01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:55.920
Season 3 of the best episodes ever.

1431
01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:57.239
Episode seven.

1432
01:03:57.300 --> 01:03:58.980
Yep, yep.

1433
01:03:59.039 --> 01:03:59.880
Peanut Hamper.

1434
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:01.679
Oh, on the planet of Third.

1435
01:04:01.739 --> 01:04:03.119
That is so great.

1436
01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:05.579
And Lodex is coming back soon as well, isn't it?

1437
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:06.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1438
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:09.300
So it's back in October, just in a few weeks time.

1439
01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:10.320
So yes.

1440
01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:12.239
That might be the best episode.

1441
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:13.619
That's lower decks.

1442
01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:15.420
You know, really good, isn't it?

1443
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:16.679
I love it so much.

1444
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:17.519
She's so funny.

1445
01:04:17.639 --> 01:04:20.760
Just brilliant. totally breaking with the format.

1446
01:04:20.820 --> 01:04:22.019
Yes, let's do it.

1447
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:23.579
Let's Absolutely.

1448
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:24.659
Brilliant.

1449
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:35.760
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1450
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:39.780
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek project

1451
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:42.360
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1452
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:43.139
media accounts.

1453
01:04:43.260 --> 01:04:46.920
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1454
01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:48.599
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1455
01:04:48.659 --> 01:04:52.380
This episode was recorded on the 10th of September 2024 and

1456
01:04:52.380 --> 01:04:54.119
released on the 13th of September.

1457
01:04:54.179 --> 01:04:57.119
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Lower Decks, a

1458
01:04:57.119 --> 01:04:58.739
mathematically perfect redemption.

1459
01:05:16.860 --> 01:05:18.539
I didn't know you could do that till the other day.

1460
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.219
Yeah, have you seen that?

1461
01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:23.400
Apple Podcasts has just transcribed our whole, all of our

1462
01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:23.940
episodes.

1463
01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:25.559
I didn't ask for that.

1464
01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:30.599
I mean, I mean, actually, if I download them and make them

1465
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:31.320
searchable.

1466
01:05:31.380 --> 01:05:32.099
Yeah, that's right.

1467
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:34.920
He's so... search for jammer.

1468
01:05:34.980 --> 01:05:36.539
1500.

1469
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:41.460
Well, search for them.

1470
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:46.679
Bem and Jabber and Stars.

1471
01:05:46.739 --> 01:05:48.119
Yeah.

1472
01:05:48.179 --> 01:05:49.019
Yeah.

1473
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:52.500
One BM is 2.5 stars. exchange, right?

1474
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:55.860
Yeah. did do that once. did, yeah, yeah.

1475
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:58.559
So that's one. 5 thems, is it?

1476
01:05:58.559 --> 01:06:03.059
How about I less do this?

1477
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:04.500
All right, okay.

1478
01:06:07.559 --> 01:06:10.199
Hey, Joe. Hi.