WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 21:39:02

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So we're back.

3
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It's the '60s.

4
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It's Star Trek, the original series Series 2, episode 25.

5
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In 2 weeks time, we'll be with Gary 7 on Assignment Earth.

6
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Yeah, but right now, we are in what the show calls 20th century Rome, which is actually literally a place that I've been to.

7
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And it's called Bread and Circuses.

8
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It's the...

9
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And it's the 1st of 2 titles that are quotes from the Roman satirist juvenile.

10
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I know the other one.

11
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Who watches the watches?

12
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It is.

13
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So Panamets, Kansas, for this one, and quis custodiet ipsos custores in the 2nd one.

14
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So...

15
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It's also a good thing, of course. cushion on my lap right now.

16
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You know how hard I get when you're super intelligent.

17
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So, this is pretty fucking weird, I think, don't you?

18
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Only Star Trek could possibly go to 20th century Rome gladiatorial games being televised one week to ditching the regulars and having a time travelling protagonist up a rocket with a cat climbing on his back the next week.

19
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I mean, what's happening?

20
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Are they smoking a lot?

21
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60s?

22
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It's pretty incredible.

23
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And we are only about a month out from Nazi planet. in patterns of force, which is one that I don't think I've ever seen.

24
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But in any case, so what they've done, like the premise is that there's a thing called Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planet Development, and that just means that we can go to other planets that are like ancient Rome, but it never fail, or Nazi planet, or whatever.

25
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Shit, get out, call or something.

26
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As soon as I start that line, I was like, so how many of these, is there a directory of all these planets and all the different ways that they've developed?

27
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Because how does this happen?

28
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How does this actually happen realistically, on another world, with parallel evolution to earth, the language and everything, with this slight deviation. bullshit, isn't it?

29
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Yeah, yeah, no, it is bullshit, but that's Star Trek, and, you know, like it's just the 2nd year of Star Trek, and they're kind of working what they can do.

30
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Like, can we go to planets that are just sort of parallel earth?

31
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I don't know when a piece of the action is.

32
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Is that in series three?

33
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I mean, that has a problem.

34
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No, no, no, no. piece of the action.

35
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That's early.

36
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But that's when where it's cultural contamination, isn't it?

37
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Like something gets left behind on the planet and they end up kind of modelling their society on it.

38
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But there's a huge difference between a piece of the action and this because in that, they basically do a gangster movie and just totally dive into the genre and do all the fun things that you can do with that, the Tommy guns running around the streets, gunfires and things.

39
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They're not really doing Roman Britain in this.

40
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Beyond a sword fight or two.

41
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Yeah.

42
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Yeah, so like there's there's all kinds of sort of Roman bits and pieces and some little clever moments in there, but it is a bit boring, I think, in the middle.

43
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Oh, I was going to say throughout, but go on, throughout.

44
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Okay.

45
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And then and then the gladiatorial combat is pretty rooster.

46
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The poor director is quoted on memory alpha as saying that that should have been the huge set piece of this episode. and we should have been given time to do it, stage it more impressively on a bigger sound stage with better design and with sort of really carefully choreographed fight scenes.

47
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Instead, it was literally lashed up in about 15 minutes.

48
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They just gave the actor source and said, go for it.

49
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Apparently the suits were looking over his shoulders, basically saying, come on, time is money.

50
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Get going.

51
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It goes, so the whole reason this episode exists. then the payoff is it's really lame.

52
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It's really quite embarrassing.

53
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Yeah, it is a little bit.

54
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And we'll get to the ending because I just think the ending is astounding and absolutely baffling and I don't know what's happening.

55
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So strange.

56
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Oh, hooray, Ahura gets something to do and then she opened her mouth and I was like, oh, no, please.

57
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Stop talking.

58
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When we get there, her delivery of that line is magnificent.

59
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Like, she's so good.

60
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Well, she tells them all very well.

61
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I like that bitch.

62
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Where she goes, it's the son of God.

63
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And they're just like, oh.

64
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Michelle, I love you so much.

65
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I just like the looks of all her faces when she went, no, you're all completely wrong.

66
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Excuse me?

67
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You're the bloody secretary.

68
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What are you talking about?

69
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No, I just thought she was magnificent.

70
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But it's so stupid.

71
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And we'll obviously get there and sort of talk about it as well because I have a rant.

72
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You're not the only person having a rant, Nathan, because by all accounts, this is where the discontent between the 2 genes, Gene Roddenbury and Gene Coon, it finally came to a head.

73
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It was fighting over this script where Gene Coon, who was suffering from cancer at the time as well.

74
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So he probably would have had to have pulled away from the series.

75
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He just said enough.

76
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And he actually said to Gene Roddenbury in this, I'm not going to be producing this show anymore, here's a possible replacement.

77
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So it was this script was the tip of the iceberg.

78
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Freddie Freiberger.

79
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And I said to you in a message, I wonder if something could have been made of this, if G number two, who is Gene Coon, had been given full creative control, because we've done a couple of his scripts and they were, well, my dream, he did write Spock's brain as well.

80
00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:20.939
But we said that was maybe punishment after this on gene number one. that's Gene Runner.

81
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I can see Gene Roddenbury all over this, especially that god awful scene where Jerusalem, the handmaiden, comes in and just goes, oh, I'm your fuck buddy for tonight, Captain Kirk.

82
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That's her sole reason for existence.

83
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

84
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And it's very strange.

85
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There's no reason for that scene to happen at all, really.

86
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Anyway.

87
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By all accounts.

88
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The director says that the finished scripts for this were handed to him on day one of shooting.

89
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So Gene Roddenbury was rewriting it.

90
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He probably saw Gene Coon, you know, and he was like, right, give out here. going to rewrite this overnight. and handed it to the drawer.

91
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So that might be why this is a bit of a mess.

92
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On that note.

93
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Whilst on location in this episode, I forget who's quoted us saying it now.

94
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Somebody was visiting with Gene Roddenbury to see the filming, and apparently the discontent between the regular actors was pretty bad in this.

95
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Shatner saw Gene Roddenbury walking towards them and is quoted as saying it just turned around and walked away.

96
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It wouldn't even acknowledge him at all.

97
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So I don't, I don't think there was a, there was trouble in paradise. at this point in Star Trek's run.

98
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But you got to remember, at this point, it wasn't necessarily there was going to be a 3rd series.

99
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This could have been the end of a run.

100
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So maybe everyone's a bit nervous about looking for extra work.

101
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Yeah, well, I've got things to say, but it is a long episode and I don't want us to run out of.

102
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There's always 5 minutes in an original series episodes where we're just sort of going, oh, the light is nice, isn't it?

103
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you know?

104
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There's not a lot of incident in this episode, so I'm going to keep my powder dry, I think.

105
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It is random tricks, law of the original Star Trek series.

106
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They're all 10 minutes too long.

107
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Too long.

108
00:08:12.899 --> 00:08:15.660
This one's maybe about 25 minutes too long.

109
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All right.

110
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I think we should go in then in that case.

111
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Yep, let's do it.

112
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Okay, I'll count it in.

113
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

114
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So this is clearly the new special effects.

115
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Yes, I noticed a new special effect, particularly when the planet appeared on the screen.

116
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I was like, yes, yeah.

117
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That very HD planet that's been superimposed on this very 60s set.

118
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Well, it's also the very HD planet where they know what the earth looks like from space.

119
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Do you know what I mean?

120
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So that there's cloud covering stuff like that.

121
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I haven't seen a picture of what, uh, apparently it's called Magna Roma in the later kind of spinoff material, and there are even characters from Magna Roma, so great Rome or Greater Rome.

122
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Um, so delightfully, uh, they don't just sweep this under the carpet.

123
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There is really a Roman planet and it gets referred to again, which is kind of awesome.

124
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Well, I was going to drop it later, but I'm going to do it now you've mentioned a spinoff, Ephemera.

125
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In the autobiography, of Captain James T. Kirk.

126
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Apparently, Drusilla birthed one of Kirk's many children.

127
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Okay, that he found out about later when he revisited the planet.

128
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And he turned out to be a really famous director and producer on this planet.

129
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Oh, God.

130
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Oh my god.

131
00:09:45.779 --> 00:09:47.759
So did you see the thing?

132
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There was a hilarious thing where they're talking about the planet?

133
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Maybe it hasn't come yet.

134
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So the premise is a little bit like angel one where you have, you know, like a spaceship of people who are, you know, not federation.

135
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Here's the planet.

136
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Not Federation have landed on the planet.

137
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Look, Spock says something about it having an excellent road system.

138
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Like, that's the 1st that's one of the things that he notices.

139
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And I thought, yep, you know, I'll pay that.

140
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That's pretty good.

141
00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:21.960
But then they talk about these primitive transmissions, which I believe was called television.

142
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No, but they also talk about amplitude modulation and frequency modulation, like they have AM and FM radio, both kinds of radio, even FM radio.

143
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Oh, my God.

144
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Sophisticated plan out.

145
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I mean, there is there is a fair few digs. uh, television in the script.

146
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There's the excellent road system.

147
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That's pretty good.

148
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I absolutely think the digs at TV are coming from Gene Roddenbury, who's just pissed at this point.

149
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There's been so much involvement from the execs.

150
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Yeah.

151
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Yeah.

152
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Yes, there are some, there's that great line about where Flavius Maximus gets told that if he doesn't behave, they'll do a special on him.

153
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Brilliant.

154
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So here we have a news, they're watching the news.

155
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It's in black and white and the slaves are rebelling, well treated intelligent slaves.

156
00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:24.059
So we have slaves on this planet and they're rebelling, even though they're kind of intelligent.

157
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And here, when I saw this, where we're in the arena, but the arena is a shitty curve.

158
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Backdrop.

159
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Yeah.

160
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Yeah, yeah.

161
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And it looks like nothing like where any, it's like it's not in an amphitheatre. like they're in a lovely garden or something.

162
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It's fucking tiny as well.

163
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Nowhere in Rome was that small.

164
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I'm telling you.

165
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Oh, dear, oh dear.

166
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:47.759
Yeah, no, it looks ridiculous.

167
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Well, take a good look at it, all right?

168
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because you're going to see a lot of it in this episode.

169
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Well, in fact, what I really liked about it was, I was watching it going, wow, that is a really shitty set, and it turns out the reason it's a shitty set is, actually, she said.

170
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It's a shitty TV set.

171
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But when even we're getting very better now, when even the director of this episode is saying, wow, that's a really shitty set, we should have done better.

172
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Yeah, yeah.

173
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Yes.

174
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Okay.

175
00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.419
And so this is one as well, where just the 3 characters beamed down.

176
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Like, why is the science officer the captain and the chief medical officer beaming down this planet?

177
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Who knows?

178
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You know, like the show's potentially been cancelled.

179
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It's the last time we can do this.

180
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All right?

181
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That's why.

182
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Because next week we're doing a pilot for the next series.

183
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One last celebration.

184
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Yeah, yeah.

185
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Oh, you know, that new HD enterprise does look so great, doesn't it?

186
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It looks really good. doesn't it?

187
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And they haven't faffed around with it too much and still, you know, fairly basic looking, but it's a great model.

188
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I remember the 1st time I saw a truly sophisticated model shot of the original Star Trek in trials and tribulations.

189
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And I was like, wow, they were really were on the site.

190
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You just never could have told him those old games.

191
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No, no.

192
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Well, like when I was a kid and I watched these, they weren't in a good state, some of them, like some of them looked pretty rough, I think.

193
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Like obviously huge amounts of effort has gone into restoring them.

194
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I didn't realise only the 3 of them got their names in the titles.

195
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I never watched the titles because you know me, I don't like the music of original Star Trek.

196
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Madly. really like it.

197
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Oh, I see. the extraneous detail they add in.

198
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They put 2 moons in the sky there.

199
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Yeah, and they do else.

200
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Well, like when we see the planet from space as well.

201
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So I was getting, this looked to me like the place where Neelix was collecting Leola roots or some bullshit in maybe it was state of flux. just that open.

202
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It's not the same place.

203
00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:56.399
Oh, I'm not sure.

204
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I don't mention it in memory alpha, and I think they would mention that sort of thing.

205
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Right.

206
00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:05.279
But it is where the entrance to the batcave is in Batman, the TV.

207
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.120
And does feature in several movies as well.

208
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So it's a very popular location.

209
00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:12.720
Yeah, yeah.

210
00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:14.100
And where are we?

211
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:25.320
So the interesting thing is that they speak English, so is this America, like why do they speak English?

212
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It's the 20th century and you think about, you know, what's the biggest empire, I guess at this point, it's the Russians, isn't it, in a way, but the Americans are sort of imperial.

213
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All of these shots of buildings and stuff that we get are American buildings with Ionic columns and Corinthian columns and stuff like with, with, you know, that look like they're classical and all of the major American public buildings are classical as well.

214
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.580
So are we talking about America?

215
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:57.360
Does this episode strive to say something about America?

216
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I think you're putting more thought into this than perhaps the genes were.

217
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:02.940
Yeah.

218
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.799
I think they just found some, you know, Roman looking architecture and where that will do.

219
00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:09.419
They went, that'll do.

220
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.519
But I mean, it is kind of telling, isn't it?

221
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:20.759
You know, that, that there, that there is some way in which American politics looks back on Roman politics.

222
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:24.240
It has a Senate, you know, like it has a capital.

223
00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:26.100
Like, you know, all of those things.

224
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.259
Is it ever stated where we are?

225
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.240
In the script.

226
00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:31.799
No, no, it isn't.

227
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:38.519
Like, we, they recognise that these people speak English, which, as we said before, is just absurdly implausible.

228
00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:40.019
But like whatever.

229
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:44.039
Can I say one thing I'll notice, because I think all its location work is superb.

230
00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:55.080
And you mentioned in state of flux is a really good comparison because this location work, it has a cinematic looks to it.

231
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:56.700
They're doing sort of long shot.

232
00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:57.899
Look at this shot now. them approaching.

233
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.179
Scale. everyone's very small in the shot.

234
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:01.379
It's a big location.

235
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:06.240
And it's a big location in a state of lux, but it's all tight shots in state of lux.

236
00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:10.740
I think somewhere along the way, we stopped trying to do Hollywood and we started doing TV.

237
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.840
I think you might be right.

238
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.120
And there was like a minute ago when they were walking along.

239
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:22.379
There was a really smooth tracking shot and I'm like, how is this shot better in 1960, whatever than in 1990?

240
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.519
I think you're right.

241
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:29.100
So this is handsome Flavius Maximus.

242
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:34.080
Yes, I like him kind of main lead, our sort of main guest actor.

243
00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:35.039
Lovely old.

244
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:36.179
It's him and Septimus.

245
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:37.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

246
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.220
And so, and these are slaves.

247
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:47.639
And the way that we know that they're slaves is they're wearing gray t-shirts with chains, like chain links on an egg.

248
00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:50.220
And like so is Drusilla later.

249
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.220
So that's, and so slavery is a thing.

250
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.799
And there's a wonderful line later on.

251
00:16:55.860 --> 00:17:05.460
And that's the other thing that made me think about America, where slave conditions have got better as time has gone by.

252
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:12.960
It's been 2000 years since, you know, our ancient Rome is at its height.

253
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:19.859
And so slavery, you know, now comes with healthcare and old age pensions and stuff.

254
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.680
We don't even know we are slaves anymore.

255
00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:24.539
Is it us?

256
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:25.440
Like, is that us?

257
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:26.819
I think they like ours?

258
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:27.599
Yeah.

259
00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:28.500
Do you know what I mean?

260
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:33.599
So it seemed to be a sort of critique of capitalism in a way. like a sort of backhanded critique.

261
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:40.859
And so is the cruelty of this empire, because how can Americans be going?

262
00:17:40.920 --> 00:18:03.420
Oh, you know, Christianity will come along and it'll rid us of a brutal cruelty of ancient Rome when America had a massive, you know, slave workforce, and it was involved in the slave trade, and, you know, what these public feelings were built by enslaved people.

263
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:09.180
They somehow forgotten about all the holy wars as well, which is a bit of an oversight, you know?

264
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

265
00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:23.940
And that 1st World War that they mentioned is Christians in Europe, all killing one another by the 1000000s, you know. like it's very strange. very odd.

266
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.019
I'm just to hear any sort of religion mentioned in Star Trek is very odd.

267
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:29.039
It's very strange.

268
00:18:29.339 --> 00:18:35.460
Especially in a positive way when we know Roddenbury went into TNG going, no religion.

269
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:36.839
We're above that now.

270
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.299
Yeah, we're past religion.

271
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.680
We're, you know, like a post, you know, post-religion utopia.

272
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:45.480
We have science, you know.

273
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:54.359
Are you trying to suggest that in our society now, you know, just so we are aware that, you know, we're all living pre-programmed lives and we're all controlled and we're all slaves.

274
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:57.960
We should be living out in caves, we're in these jumpsuits with changes on them.

275
00:18:58.019 --> 00:18:59.099
These guys have escaped.

276
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.019
These guys have escaped, you see?

277
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:02.819
This is the better life, is it?

278
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:03.720
Yeah.

279
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.619
Well, though they're living in caves and living in primitive conditions.

280
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:14.579
Did you get the dialogue earlier where they all explain the, um, prime directive?

281
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:21.180
That's a really bad example of just the 3 of them all explaining the prime directive to each other.

282
00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:25.980
What I did like about the prime director for this was when the, what's the fellow's name who's in charge?

283
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.019
Septimus.

284
00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:29.099
Septimus goes.

285
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.039
America's the other guy.

286
00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.019
No, Claudius Marcus.

287
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.180
Yeah, whatever his name is.

288
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.640
He goes, I'm very aware of your prime directive.

289
00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:43.380
I've had it explained to me, and I'm also aware that you can't do anything to stop me, so no, no, no, no, no, no.

290
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.160
I was like, that's great.

291
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.500
Just get it out of shit. you know?

292
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:54.299
But bizarrely, apparently they all swear an oath to die rather than violate the prime directive.

293
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.339
And Spot confirms that.

294
00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.660
And then McCoy goes, do you have to be so damn honest all the time, you know?

295
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:06.359
And it's kind of like, wait. like Jadeway violates the prime drain of all the time.

296
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.180
She decided to go, oh, I better die now.

297
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.119
I thought you were doing a chain my impression then, if I'm honest.

298
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.799
Or Picard, you know, rescuing Wesley.

299
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.079
Justice are you talking about?

300
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:20.160
Yeah.

301
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.700
Yeah.

302
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:22.019
Yeah, limey.

303
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.500
This poor fellow here, he just gets to be very amiable, doesn't he?

304
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:25.799
You know?

305
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:40.319
Yeah, and like, so I don't think the person who's done the closed captions has got the note, because he keeps saying son S-U-N, rather than S-O-N, every time he's talking.

306
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:42.599
It's because it's a surprise at the end.

307
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:44.400
I think it would ruin it. otherwise.

308
00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:45.599
I love this magazine.

309
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:48.180
Holy crap, I love this, mate. it's so much.

310
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.680
It's so great.

311
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:51.539
No Jupiter 8.

312
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:57.240
But it's such a terrific 60s style magazine, Mars toothpaste.

313
00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:59.099
We don't want to watch that.

314
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:02.640
Can you just flip through the magazine so we can look at the other words, yeah.

315
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:05.759
Taken from the names of false gods.

316
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:08.220
Although, I do think it was a bit much.

317
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.740
It was Jupiter on one page, Mars on the next.

318
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:11.759
Venus on the next.

319
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.339
They do that, though.

320
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.660
It's still sort of a thing.

321
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:17.819
So it's, I don't know.

322
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:19.019
The...

323
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:38.460
Like, there's something about these people that I like, and I do like the fact that Flavius, Marcus, Flavius Maximus, rather, used to be a gladiator, and now he's a Christian, and he doesn't want to kill, and he's against the games, and that, see, why is this guy called Merricus?

324
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:45.720
Why is the, so they call him the 1st citizen, which is what the emperor was called.

325
00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:48.240
He was the Primkebs, the 1st citizen.

326
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.859
He wasn't a monarch, originally, when Augustus takes over. just the chief citizen.

327
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.720
And so they use that term.

328
00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:57.359
They don't talk about the emperor, do they, in this?

329
00:21:57.420 --> 00:21:58.619
They don't talk about the emperor at all.

330
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:00.119
They talk about the 1st citizen.

331
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:03.240
But that's what the Romans called, called Augustus.

332
00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:05.940
But he's called Americus.

333
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.380
Like, I just can't think he's called Americus, and we're not trying to say anything about America.

334
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.900
You know, like it just seems like an odd coincidence.

335
00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:14.819
I didn't even get that you know.

336
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.119
But do you think, am I just going crazy?

337
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:21.240
Maybe they just thought Merrick was a cool name and then he would be America's.

338
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:27.960
He's like spokesperson for America, devout Christian, doesn't want to hurt anybody.

339
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:29.519
No, no, no, no.

340
00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:30.480
This guy's Septimus.

341
00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:32.160
Americus is the 1st citizen.

342
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:41.519
Americus is the bad guy, the guy from the SSB Eagle, who is now the emperor and has Claudius Marcus as his proconsol.

343
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.339
There's too many of these bloody Roman names, Nathan.

344
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.240
Yeah.

345
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:55.200
So, so Flavus and Septimus are the 2 Christians who speak, and then Americus is the, the, the guy Merrick, who Kirk knows.

346
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:56.579
So what are they trying to say then?

347
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:57.660
What do you think they're trying to say?

348
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:05.220
Well, I don't know, but I think that it's obvious to draw a parallel between 20th century, between 20th century America and Rome.

349
00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:06.839
Do you know what I mean?

350
00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:08.579
Like that seems like an obvious thing to do.

351
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:18.720
Um, And they've already kind of made the joke about comparing slaves to employees, you know, the slaves have kind of gradually become employees.

352
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.059
Um, Yeah.

353
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:22.079
I don't know.

354
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:24.839
And if Americus is a massive sellout, like he is here.

355
00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:27.599
What are we trying to say about America?

356
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.519
Well, no, no, I just think that because he just, he's the chief, I don't know.

357
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:33.480
It's just a name.

358
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:34.319
Do you know what I mean?

359
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:35.700
But it just makes you think of America.

360
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:40.259
I can't imagine Gene Roddenbury's putting that much forward to this.

361
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.339
Maybe, maybe.

362
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.000
Who knows?

363
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:43.740
I mean, yeah.

364
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:44.640
Yeah.

365
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.160
Do we have a shootout now?

366
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:53.220
Well, I'm going to talk and then the police turn up and start shooting at the trees.

367
00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:58.559
We are going to talk a little bit about Christianity as well.

368
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:08.039
And my favourite bit of dialogue about this is Flavia says, you know, like Flavia still wants to kill and sometimes thinks he has to kill.

369
00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:17.220
And when he 1st meets Spock McCoy and Kirk, he considers killing them as a thing, and I know killing's evil, but I kind of want to do it.

370
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.119
But he also knows that all men are brothers.

371
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:35.700
And I like, there's a bit where Kirk just says, he doesn't say, um, you know, your religion's right or the son is real or whatever, but he does say, no, but you're right, all men are brothers, and I like that a lot.

372
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:36.779
I think that's great.

373
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:38.279
That's very Star Trekie.

374
00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:47.880
So within all of this, uh, I want to say tedium, that's too strong of a word. within all of this confused narrative.

375
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:49.200
There are little moments.

376
00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:50.220
Little gems.

377
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:50.700
Yeah.

378
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:55.079
And, you know, like, like, I don't know.

379
00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.079
Is there something in the 60s happening, are there Jesus people?

380
00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:04.440
I just don't know what's enough about what how this landed at the time. don't think what it's trying to be. is clear enough in itself.

381
00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:07.980
Maybe if it was, then you wouldn't be asking those questions, you know?

382
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:09.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

383
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:16.859
And like there is always, even that sort of the cheesy kind of B movie 50s and crap an earlier.

384
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:17.640
Do you know what I mean?

385
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.720
Where you have to kind of pretend that Christianity is true or America's important or whatever.

386
00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:25.440
Um, like it does seem like a little bit of a throwback to that.

387
00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:27.599
It doesn't seem to fit in Star Trek at all.

388
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.880
It's bafflingly weird, isn't it?

389
00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:31.559
Well, it's rottenberry a question.

390
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:33.059
I don't know.

391
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:34.859
Well, no, he's so horny.

392
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:36.779
I just thought he must have been, you know, like that.

393
00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:38.339
Most Christians are a nation.

394
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:46.079
I just thought he was like, you know, like a kind of leftist of some kind.

395
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:52.259
I mean, I'm a little bit horny watching them in those gray, um, those gray outfits now.

396
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.599
William Shadow looks lovely in it.

397
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.759
Is this random news film or they actually gone out and shot that?

398
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:04.200
I don't know, but you can see they've got American style buildings.

399
00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:07.619
This one is the Legion of Honour art gallery in San Francisco.

400
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:15.180
Trouble is, is you have these hugely ornate outside shots and then we come into the studios and they're all tiny.

401
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:17.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

402
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:17.940
Yeah.

403
00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:20.400
Although this isn't too bad.

404
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:21.599
Is it this prison set?

405
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:23.220
I think we've been in this set.

406
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:27.420
This is, you know, like the equivalent of the cade set in 90s trek.

407
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.819
We were in a prison set in that.

408
00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:32.579
The one where the green woman exploded. you remember?

409
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:37.920
Ah, yeah, yeah. that's true They just keep they keep the bars and just put the different walls out.

410
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:39.000
Put different walls in.

411
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.819
Different gels, different gels.

412
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:42.900
So we're lighting this one red.

413
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:44.640
It is lovely light, though.

414
00:26:47.700 --> 00:26:55.019
And there's, they do do some nice bits with um, how Spock and McCoy. care about Kirk in this.

415
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:56.759
Well, there's a couple of character bits in this.

416
00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:57.359
They are quite nice.

417
00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:01.200
Yeah, so I just don't know.

418
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:05.819
That snippy relationship between McCoy and Spark.

419
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:20.759
It just feels like a bit well trodden at this and he automatically goes to the ears and then Spock automatically raises his eyebrow and I'm like, I know I know you've sort of discovered this is fun and this can reap some character rewards.

420
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.579
But I was like, oh, we're still doing this.

421
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:30.720
Yeah, so slavery evolving into an institution, he said.

422
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.240
Yeah, no, and obviously it was already an institution.

423
00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:41.160
I don't know what he means by institution, but I think, you know, where people have rights and stuff like that.

424
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:43.319
I don't know.

425
00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:53.519
I think I think my big problem with this was the very 1st scene was like the bullshit explanation as to how this parallel evolution happened.

426
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:54.720
I just didn't buy it.

427
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:59.099
So from the from the off, I'm like, yeah, I just don't believe that this would ever happen.

428
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.539
And I know it has and it's being presented and that's Star Trek and all of that.

429
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:14.279
But I also, you know, like if if we're going to throw things out on the grounds of just how plausible the premises, kind of the whole show goes.

430
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:18.599
You know, like, you've not remember when I watched Genesis.

431
00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:21.539
I was tearing my hair out in that one.

432
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:26.819
But this, you know, this is just a thing they decide not to do.

433
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.079
Do you know what I mean?

434
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:31.500
This is a slider's premise in some ways, isn't it?

435
00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:36.599
Like you slide into a parallel universe where the Roman Empire never fell.

436
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.759
I mean this is way more entertaining than that.

437
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:40.140
Did you ever watch sliders?

438
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.240
It was always just a little bit to the left.

439
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:45.779
You know, it was never fun enough to watch.

440
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:50.220
He said there that all men are brothers is something that was kept from us all these years.

441
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.220
It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

442
00:28:53.339 --> 00:29:14.099
No, but like just because this is a society that treats people with such brutality, where there's such inequality, you know, where people go to the arena and watch people get killed for entertainment, and that becomes a big problem for Christianity.

443
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.880
Do you know what I mean?

444
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:28.019
Like Christianity, whatever it becomes, when it 1st starts, there are people who say we don't go to the theatre, we don't go to the games, they're brutal and cruel, and, you know, Christians were martyred at events like this.

445
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.559
I wonder then, I don't know.

446
00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:33.480
I wonder then if as presented.

447
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:38.640
This isn't as brutal as it could be because I wasn't really seeing a brutal society.

448
00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:42.539
I was just seeing a couple of people with shitty plastic swords gang.

449
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:43.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

450
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:44.460
The plastic shields and stuff.

451
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:46.319
That's right, because they can't properly sell it.

452
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:49.019
It might be telling us, but I'm not really seeing it.

453
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.599
No, I do just love later, though.

454
00:29:51.660 --> 00:30:00.480
Did you see the guy that when when Spock gives the guy the Falcon neck pinch and he looks at the camera and his mouth opens and he kind of falls down?

455
00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:06.960
he does such a dramatic going unconscious bit of acting as well. fabulous Vulcan history.

456
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.240
Next picture is later on, isn't it, when they're fighting?

457
00:30:09.299 --> 00:30:17.880
Although, please watch McCoy when they're in the gladiatorial arena because he keeps looking at Spock whilst fighting with his sword at the same time.

458
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.460
I'm like, will you fucking focus?

459
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:26.880
Because there's that moment where Flavius, who's fighting him, says, can you defend yourself?

460
00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:30.299
You know, can you and at least defend yourself?

461
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:31.859
And he goes, I am defending myself.

462
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.779
The cameras are rolling, mate.

463
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:35.279
They've given you good lying.

464
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:37.920
Oh, dear.

465
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:47.099
So this is Mercus, who was the captain of the Beagle and was known to Kirk from the academy, but he dropped out.

466
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.000
You are right.

467
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:55.440
We do do this a couple of times because that fellow, when the green woman exploded, he was an ex, an ex Starfleet man, wasn't he as well?

468
00:30:55.500 --> 00:31:01.799
Well, in fact, Strangely Worlds did this, this premise, the thing that it reminded me of.

469
00:31:01.859 --> 00:31:17.160
There's an episode called Among the Lotus Eaters where a former crew member who I think Pike thinks was left for dad is found to be the ruler of a planet, but they go and visit.

470
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:21.839
And so they've, they borrow from this.

471
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:25.500
Is it a fabulous Roman inspire planet?

472
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:26.519
No, no?

473
00:31:26.579 --> 00:31:27.599
No, not at all.

474
00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:31.440
It's very weird and kind of miserable that episode. thought it was interesting.

475
00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:32.579
Look at this set.

476
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:38.819
I know I said I'll talk about the design a bit, but a fabulously lit bed in the background there, the flaming torch in the front.

477
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.359
There's a big pot there and those bloody furs on the floor.

478
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:45.119
I know, they look so shit, don't they?

479
00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:47.940
Someone's cut out a carpet, doesn't it?

480
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

481
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.880
It's very sparse.

482
00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:52.799
It doesn't look very good.

483
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:54.779
It doesn't look particularly Roman, I think.

484
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.180
Oh, look, here's the height of sophistication.

485
00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:59.220
Salad on a plate.

486
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.579
Well, so there's the thing here.

487
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:10.619
So there's a, you know, a public historian, um, merry bed, who, uh, you might have seen on television.

488
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:29.279
She's a Roman historian, and she says that it's the 1st time that it gets mentioned in a TV episode that said in ancient Rome that dormice are mentioned as something that you might eat.

489
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:30.180
Okay.

490
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:35.640
And and the fires of Pompeii and Doctor Who mentions it almost immediately.

491
00:32:35.700 --> 00:32:37.500
I think Peter Capole to get to mention it.

492
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.619
Here we don't mention it, but it swallows.

493
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:48.900
I think it's like birds in Garum and Garum is the fish sauce, a little bit like fish sauce from Southeast Asia.

494
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.920
It was one of the big experts of exports of Pompeii.

495
00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:59.940
It was like, um, and it was just like you leave the fish to rot and ferment and voila profit.

496
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:07.079
You can sell it, and it's called fish sauce, and it would have just been absolutely fucking...

497
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:15.299
But all of the descriptions of Roman food that you get to read and are just like, oh, no, so this is eel fed on sewage.

498
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:18.420
And it's, you know, like, oh, dear idea.

499
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:24.539
I'll put some strange things in my mouth in my time, but the things you've just described.

500
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:25.859
I may think twice.

501
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:34.380
Yeah, see this, he's kind of saying, they have slavery here in ancient Rome, and it's kind of like, this is the 20th century.

502
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:40.319
You know, how many decades away are we from slavery in the United States, you know?

503
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:51.420
And Spock spectacularly fails to get the numbers right when listing the fatalities during the 1st 2nd and as yet to come 3rd World War.

504
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.819
I think he'd probably write about the 3rd World War.

505
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:55.920
Well, yeah, well, yeah.

506
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.460
I can't really dismiss it.

507
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:03.599
But when memory alpha, who obviously they get their details.

508
00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:04.079
Right, right.

509
00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:09.900
Yeah, when they list it, he's out by quite a lot and in the wrong direction as well.

510
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:12.119
Okay, amazing.

511
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.400
I'm very unlike Spock though.

512
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:17.880
Yes, yes.

513
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:22.139
So this world didn't have the 3 world wars in the 21st century.

514
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:22.500
Is that it?

515
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:23.940
That's right.

516
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.320
But they have been slaughtering people in their games and slavery.

517
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:29.159
Yeah, yeah.

518
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:30.960
For the same amount of time.

519
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:32.219
So, yeah, sure.

520
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:33.960
That's what this argument's about, is it?

521
00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:35.639
They're no better and no worse.

522
00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:42.960
I think part of the problem is that no one wears a toga.

523
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.659
What, there's no visual.

524
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.280
Yeah.

525
00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:48.659
Don't you think?

526
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:50.760
Like, he's wearing some spangly ass thing here.

527
00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:58.500
He looks very little pants, you know, like the slaves wearing tiny shorts and gray t-shirts and stuff.

528
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.800
It looks like he's dressed up from the mediaeval times.

529
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:03.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

530
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:07.739
And you just sort of think, if this is ancient Rome, sell it to me as ancient Rome.

531
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.719
Like, if we're doing a gladiator, because...

532
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:11.280
What is true?

533
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:11.880
When she comes in.

534
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:12.780
Has she got a toga?

535
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.920
Oh, some, I don't know. 1960s chiffon, yeah.

536
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:17.820
Yeah, that's right.

537
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.599
Oh, they must be sophisticated.

538
00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:26.880
Look at that pot behind Spark, and there's a lovely statue behind McCoy.

539
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:28.920
Yes, yes, I did see that.

540
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:30.420
And the police too.

541
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.440
They just look shit.

542
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:33.000
Maybe they look like Italian police.

543
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:36.000
It does look like ribena though, doesn't it?

544
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:41.400
You're a connoisseur of red wine, you know, you wouldn't drink it without watery, would you?

545
00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:42.840
I don't think so.

546
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:46.739
Oh, this stuff with Scottish.

547
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:47.280
Do you know what?

548
00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.039
As we've explored the original series.

549
00:35:50.099 --> 00:35:51.960
I find Scotty a bit annoying.

550
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:54.840
Do you?

551
00:35:54.900 --> 00:36:02.159
I just, yeah, I just don't think there's much about him, but he sort of sits there on the bridge full of arrogance, like, something suspicious is going on down there.

552
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:02.820
We'll wait.

553
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.159
So who do you think is better?

554
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:06.960
Scotty or Arax?

555
00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:09.000
Oh, Axe is amazing.

556
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:23.880
I don't know I get the impression that Jimmy Dewan, I have read some bits to confirm this, that he was a bit sick of not getting enough to do, which is why they start bumping up his row in too.

557
00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:25.199
And then a lot in 3.

558
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.760
Oh, okay.

559
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:34.800
So we do get Scotty in the final episode of series 2 of Strange New World, and he's played by someone Scottish.

560
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:39.300
It's revolutionary.

561
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.780
They don't care about Star Trek's legacy.

562
00:36:45.780 --> 00:37:02.400
It was one of my favourite jokes in Star Trek, Picard, where on La Serena, Rios had the emergency engineering hologram, which was just him doing a shitty fake Scottie Jackson.

563
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.880
But he sounded just like Jimmy, Jimmy, do it.

564
00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:13.440
I mean, we know how dextrous his voice is after watching the animated series.

565
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:17.579
As we've said, master of dialect, Jimmy Tuan.

566
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:22.079
See, at this point, there's too much talk.

567
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:23.219
Get him in the arena already.

568
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.960
No, I'm super bored at this point.

569
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:25.500
I think.

570
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.039
Yeah.

571
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:26.639
Yeah.

572
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:29.280
We've had enough of these luxurious surroundings now.

573
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:33.300
Now we're going to look at this Brazier for a while.

574
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:39.900
Did you see him there with his fingers steepled?

575
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.059
I wonder if they'll put on a good show.

576
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:46.559
Oh here we go.

577
00:37:46.619 --> 00:37:48.599
Up to the Enterprise now.

578
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:51.900
Look, look at him sitting there on the bridge and like he's Captain Kirk.

579
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:53.579
Like he owns the place.

580
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:54.239
Yeah.

581
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:56.519
Who's behind it, guy?

582
00:37:56.579 --> 00:37:57.900
Please give me a line, anything.

583
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.179
Oh, say anything about gold.

584
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.099
Talk about the Son of God at the end.

585
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:04.559
Is that Chekov?

586
00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:05.400
not entirely sure.

587
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:07.139
Yeah, yeah, no, it's Chekhov.

588
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:07.860
Chehov.

589
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.059
Bless him.

590
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.000
I've been watching Walter Canick, you know, on Babylon 5.

591
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:13.500
That show that you've never heard of.

592
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.840
No, I didn't even know what it is.

593
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:17.880
He's very sinister, isn't it, though?

594
00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:21.119
I didn't know he could act, especially after watching him in Star Trek.

595
00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:25.739
Oh, look at him.

596
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:28.139
Jimmy doing that knowing sort of nought.

597
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:30.000
Come on.

598
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:33.480
So he gets them out of it, doesn't he?

599
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.699
And he's going, I'm really going to threaten them and what does he do?

600
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.420
He cuts the power to the TV studio at a vital moment.

601
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:40.320
That was nice then.

602
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:40.920
Did you say?

603
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:46.920
He started the shot on the backcloth of the cloisters and then he pulls away.

604
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.900
Yeah, see the thing.

605
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:50.940
And so my favourite thing.

606
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:52.320
Were they doing the candles?

607
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.840
That is...

608
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:59.820
That's the best part of the episode is the guy on the soundboard with the big dials that say...

609
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:01.199
But you know where I figured this was going?

610
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:07.199
So they start talking about TV in the very 1st scene and then we realise this has all been broadcast.

611
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:12.239
I thought this was going to be about television rather than about Romans.

612
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:14.699
And I think that might be a bit more fun.

613
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.519
The desperate things you have to do to get your ratings up.

614
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:21.059
Yeah, I mean, gestures at it, doesn't it?

615
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:22.260
It sort of hints at it.

616
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:30.659
So this show is called name the winner, and it's sponsored by the people who brought you Jupiter 8, and it's called name the winner because you name the winner.

617
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.860
Oddly, there's no studio audience, probably because we can't afford one.

618
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:38.280
Is that a genuine 1960s camera there?

619
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:42.300
I don't know, I hope so. fucking imagine if it is.

620
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah. very impressive.

621
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:46.739
It's that size.

622
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.440
Oh, these 2 gladiators.

623
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:51.659
Russell Crowe, are they?

624
00:39:52.139 --> 00:39:52.980
No, no.

625
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:54.539
But this is the best bit.

626
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.000
The guy, even his label as sound effects.

627
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:04.739
You know how on Batman, everything has a label, like on the 60s, Batman from this era, literally everything is labelled.

628
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:12.059
And so sound effects guy is sitting in a board, which is labelled sound effects from so that you know what it is.

629
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:17.579
And he's got 4 big tiles that say laughter, cat calls, booze.

630
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:20.039
They couldn't come to town, couldn't they?

631
00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:21.719
They could have had backdrop written next to that.

632
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:27.179
They could have had, you know, shitty statuettes, switch it to the left there.

633
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:34.320
So these guys are wearing helmets of of Mormilones, which are a type of Roman gladiator.

634
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:36.539
So there we're trying a bit.

635
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:40.619
He's unlike unlike D, who's not trying at all.

636
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:44.280
When I was 8 years old, right?

637
00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:46.440
Me and my sister had foam swords.

638
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:52.079
Okay, which we would go at each other, we would have sword fights, and it was more vicious than this.

639
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:53.099
I'm telling you.

640
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:55.739
Yeah, yeah, but these guys are scared of hitting one another.

641
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:59.159
Like, at least, like, so notice too.

642
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:05.760
So we've had the da, da, da, da. music early on, like almost immediately.

643
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:10.920
We are going to get the da, da, da, da, da, da, da music for this.

644
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:15.719
They've been cancelled.

645
00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.219
We can't have any original music.

646
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.320
I just use this.

647
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:23.579
Booze, hisses, and catcalls. hisses, booses, and catcalls.

648
00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:27.059
I do imagine if we...

649
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:28.980
We should get that board for the podcast.

650
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:34.860
I like the juxtaposition of the Roman gear and the machine gun.

651
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:36.420
I think that's a really fun visual.

652
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:38.940
Yeah, yeah. when they come in with machine guns.

653
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:39.960
I think that's pretty awesome.

654
00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:43.860
But I hate these cheap arse plastic sheer will save God.

655
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.260
They look so cheap and lightweight.

656
00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:52.079
Well, yeah, I think they're kind of probably aluminium painted a bright colour of very light metal.

657
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:54.179
I think they are metal, aren't they?

658
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:56.400
I don't know, but they look really shitty, don't they?

659
00:41:56.460 --> 00:42:00.960
They might just switch it on now and you'd be like, oh, they're really not making an effort anymore in Star Trek.

660
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.179
I can see the studio lights over there.

661
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:07.559
Budget cuts.

662
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:09.960
We've just pulled in any old asshole to direct this thing.

663
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.760
Those gladiators are wearing very tiny pants.

664
00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:15.480
Look at them.

665
00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:16.800
A little skirts, aren't they?

666
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:19.860
But imagine for a second. none of this would never happen.

667
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:23.099
But you imagine that arena from Attack of the Clones.

668
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:23.639
Do you remember?

669
00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:27.059
That huge arena where they've, that's what this should be like, you know?

670
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.000
Yeah, of course. in story terms.

671
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:33.719
Do you know, I hate Attack of the Clones so much.

672
00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:37.440
It's such a shitty film, but the arena been at the end.

673
00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:38.579
That's great.

674
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:43.559
I am defending myself.

675
00:42:43.619 --> 00:42:45.840
He's not even broken a fucking sweat.

676
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:47.340
There's no blood on him or anything.

677
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:48.900
It's like...

678
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:49.800
You know.

679
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:51.360
At least in the 90s, right?

680
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:53.340
They do get a bit roughed up when they have a fight.

681
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:55.800
You know, the hair falls into disarray, at least.

682
00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:59.820
And they'll give them a bruise or a, you know, blood or something.

683
00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:05.400
But that time when Kira got stabbed in Way of the Warrior, and the knife was in her, all her blood was all over her uniform.

684
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:07.199
Yeah, yeah.

685
00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:10.260
Oh, well, it's the 60s, a more innocent time.

686
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:14.460
Yeah, and like, I don't even know what's happening in this scene as well.

687
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:20.460
Like, I mean, he's trying to outside him or out or something like, like, what do we want?

688
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:24.300
Like, what does Claudius Marcus want the captain to do?

689
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.539
Or does he want him to bring his men down?

690
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:32.639
And so this is supposed to persuade Kirk to bring his men down to the planet?

691
00:43:32.699 --> 00:43:35.099
What, so they can fight and?

692
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:36.719
Well, just, I don't know.

693
00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:42.840
Oh, remember because he didn't want, he didn't want the beagle to leave, so obviously he doesn't want the enterprise to leave.

694
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:44.940
And is Kirk just here to take his mate away?

695
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:46.440
Is that the only reason he's come down here?

696
00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:54.539
Well, he's come to rescue them because they were stranded, but fortunately, they're all dead except for, and then later on, he's dead. isn't he?

697
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:55.860
He's the captain.

698
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:58.679
He's there. drink at all of this. fucking emperor.

699
00:43:58.739 --> 00:44:00.659
So as soon as they realise this, shouldn't they have just gone?

700
00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:03.179
Yeah.

701
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.280
Oh, it would be a short episode then.

702
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:08.400
Oh, I do like the fellow in the background there.

703
00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:10.559
Just see him in the soup with the handheld camera.

704
00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:12.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

705
00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:16.079
Maybe that's how you do the handheld camera work.

706
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:18.719
We're getting a good education, 60s TV making here.

707
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.519
Actually, there's some nice thighs on display as well, it looks like.

708
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:27.780
I actually really like that blocking the scene with like...

709
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:30.719
Oh, there's...

710
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.280
There's Double Dare.

711
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:34.440
So bad. completely different hair.

712
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:36.599
It could be anyone's stunt double.

713
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:37.440
No.

714
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.619
Leonard Nimmo is hot though when he's in action.

715
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:43.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is, isn't he?

716
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:46.320
Jad Singer Dax was right.

717
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.820
Yep, yeah.

718
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:48.420
Yeah, yeah.

719
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:50.340
Oh, fact.

720
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.940
Do you remember when they were doing all that talking and we said get on with the action?

721
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:57.000
Yeah, now they're doing reaction.

722
00:44:57.059 --> 00:44:58.860
I just wish I'd get back to the talking, you know?

723
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.480
Well, no, I don't know.

724
00:45:00.539 --> 00:45:02.400
I just do think that both of them are boring.

725
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.139
I can't believe there's still 14 minutes to go.

726
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:05.519
Like what the hell are you going to do?

727
00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:07.019
It just feels directionist, doesn't it?

728
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:14.940
It feels like, yeah, one, they haven't taken hold of the idea and sort of explored it in any interesting sort of a way.

729
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:18.360
And two, I just don't really know what anyone's trying to achieve at this point.

730
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:19.320
And why?

731
00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:23.519
Yeah, because this should be the climax, but it isn't.

732
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:36.599
And then we come back to here after faffing about with the scene with Drusilla, and then there's another scene where Claudius Marcus, whose name is just irritatingly backwards. for some reason.

733
00:45:36.659 --> 00:45:40.079
I don't know why he's not Marcus Claudius, but like whatever.

734
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:45.539
Are you suggesting that if Kirk didn't have his contractual obligation to get his end away?

735
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.159
We could have ended the episode right now.

736
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:51.780
Yeah, well, like we just go back here after this.

737
00:45:51.840 --> 00:46:03.599
Like, he has sex with Drew Cilla in, like, she sells the enthusiastic consent thing, but she's a slave, and she constantly talks, so it's yucky.

738
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.179
There's something yucky about it.

739
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.260
That's not...

740
00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:10.559
I think we would rather think more of Captain Kirk if he said, no, you're all right.

741
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:12.059
I'm just going to bed.

742
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:15.300
Instead, he goes, oh, you have to do this, do you?

743
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:16.199
Well, let's go.

744
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.659
Yeah, that's right, you.

745
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:22.619
I mean, she does seem to be into it, but like, what is she wearing?

746
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:29.820
That's, uh, I think a lot of people in the Second World War, you know, slept with German people and made it look as if they were really enjoying themselves.

747
00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:31.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

748
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:32.219
That's right.

749
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.619
You just do what you have to to survive.

750
00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:39.780
But yes, so it is kind of a bit yucky, isn't it?

751
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:43.980
I mean, look, a fabulous 60s hair, though.

752
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:44.400
Look at it.

753
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:46.800
I know, the hair is really incredible.

754
00:46:46.860 --> 00:46:48.900
Somewhat get her a Hollywood contract now.

755
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:53.820
Someone has invented peroxide in the last 2000 years.

756
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:55.920
Maybe she should be in a toga.

757
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:58.320
That's a very science fiction-y costume she's got.

758
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.719
Yeah, yeah. that's what I think.

759
00:47:00.780 --> 00:47:03.900
I just never buy it Like, if you want to make it roam, then go for it.

760
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:05.460
You see, I can only...

761
00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:07.079
It's only an on, mate, the set design.

762
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:08.340
A bit?

763
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:09.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

764
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.719
Set designers, will you please talk to the costumiers, please?

765
00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:13.980
Exactly.

766
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.320
Oh, this is quite a nice scene.

767
00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:17.519
I like this scene.

768
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:29.820
And particularly the way that he says, I'm just testing the war, the bars and McCoy says for the 15th time. superhuman strength spot then.

769
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.260
Yeah, of course he does.

770
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:32.760
Oh, I can't even bend the balls then.

771
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:37.619
Well, just, you know, they, they're too strong for Vulcans as well.

772
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:38.340
Okay.

773
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:42.599
Yeah, like I kind of like that.

774
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:46.679
So this gets quite heated and most of them are being pricks, aren't they?

775
00:47:46.739 --> 00:48:06.900
Because McCoy wants to thank Spock for saving his life and Spock is being a dick about it and refuses to accept his thanks and sort of analyses it and dismisses it, you know, where McCoy's actually trying to be nice, and then McCoy just rounds on him and is a prick as well.

776
00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:14.940
Because they're frustrated, but then they find a moment that connects them when they both actually admit.

777
00:48:15.059 --> 00:48:27.780
It's just like, well, it's beautiful, and it's, it's, it's, um, it's McCoy who says, yes, I'm really worried about Jim as well, and Spock acknowledges it, and I thought that was very nice.

778
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:32.519
And like if this was the end of the show, then that resolves it.

779
00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:34.980
You pointed your own Hobgoblin.

780
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:37.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

781
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.019
Yeah, so he's being a pretty...

782
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:43.019
Do not ever complain about the term spoonhead again, all right?

783
00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:45.840
I did like it, though.

784
00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:50.039
The inference is that Spock is scared to let his humans like that, isn't it?

785
00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:51.000
That's what he says to him.

786
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.219
He goes, yeah, are you scared if you let it out?

787
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:54.360
You actually might feel something.

788
00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:55.739
Even this.

789
00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:00.719
The last of our ships search and whatever I think of his lovely skill.

790
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:08.760
I'm gonna find an excuse for this and I'm gonna burn you as well.

791
00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:11.039
Good.

792
00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:14.820
Oh, so it can be fun.

793
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:18.900
But don't you think, like, this is their last chance to do this?

794
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:22.559
And so they do it. and it kind of resolves in a way.

795
00:49:22.619 --> 00:49:24.900
Like, this would be a nice place to leave them.

796
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:28.619
You know, because that's a really cruel thing that he's saying now.

797
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:32.940
Well, you could never have a genuine do about a genuine, warm feeling.

798
00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:34.800
And he's he's slightly hurt.

799
00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:35.519
Look at him.

800
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:36.599
Look at how he's playing it.

801
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:41.760
And then they look at each other Look, look.

802
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:44.039
That's really very beautiful.

803
00:49:44.099 --> 00:49:46.559
Then Def Forrest, he's down, doesn't he?

804
00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:46.980
Yeah.

805
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:47.880
That's right.

806
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:58.500
Because Spock is playing it as genuinely hurt by what's been said, and then they're in the, they are both feeling bereft, you know?

807
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:01.139
Then we cut to him fucking.

808
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:02.039
Do you know what I mean?

809
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:08.820
Like, they're very white, and he's drinking wine with a beautiful woman, which I also think are the cuts that seem beautifully.

810
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.820
It's only we'd known we wouldn't have given a shit, you know?

811
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:15.000
Of course he's having sex with a slave.

812
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.980
Oh, I was going to say something that's totally left my head.

813
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.780
Never mind.

814
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:26.219
How many sons do you imagine Jim Kirk has around the universe now?

815
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.079
Oh, God, I don't like to think about it.

816
00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:30.780
Thank God they killed off David, that bastard.

817
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.719
Did he sleep with that green woman before she exploded?

818
00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:35.039
I won't ever stop talking about it.

819
00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:38.400
Yeah, no, but I don't think there was enough time for her to give birth.

820
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:44.460
So look at look at how they do the sex as well in this scene, which I just think is as cheesy as well.

821
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:47.039
They come upwards, and then when they go each you up.

822
00:50:47.099 --> 00:50:51.239
I know. they even fade. go up and then go down.

823
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:52.320
Let's have a look.

824
00:50:52.380 --> 00:50:53.820
So we're kissing.

825
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:58.619
The camera goes up and looks at the lamp.

826
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.000
Oh yeah, there you go.

827
00:51:00.059 --> 00:51:00.659
Quick fade.

828
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:04.079
So the lamp now the flames are gone. fade to the flames have gone.

829
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:05.099
He's massive of time.

830
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.440
Yeah, he hasn't taken his pants off.

831
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:09.960
Sam only said sex with Drusilla without taking his pants off.

832
00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:11.280
Oh, wow.

833
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:13.320
Do you think he'd have his willy hanging out or something?

834
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:14.460
Like, why is he...

835
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:21.360
I do not need to see William Shatner's not being foulish.

836
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.280
But he sees you had sex without tech.

837
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:27.059
Oh, he's...

838
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:28.139
Like, how's he falling?

839
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:29.460
He's shown over and fall.

840
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:35.340
A little inset into my sex life here, but very often, you know, as soon as I'm done, I'll have a shower and put my clothes back on.

841
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:38.099
I'm not one to sit around naked, you know, all sticky.

842
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:43.199
Yeah, no, no, but I thought he just sort of passed out of sleep after having sex, you see?

843
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:45.300
I think he just undid his zipper and did it that way.

844
00:51:46.019 --> 00:51:48.119
It's not that great.

845
00:51:48.179 --> 00:51:52.199
I don't think that's that great. how desperate we've got in this episode.

846
00:51:53.159 --> 00:52:00.539
Well, because now we're talking about, now we're talking about, we're talking to Claudius Marcus about whatever the fuck it is.

847
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:01.739
What are we talking about now?

848
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:05.820
Oh, Claudius Marcus said he sort of pimped him out.

849
00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:11.699
Because you're a man to give him the last night of being a man before I have you executed.

850
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.679
What does that even mean?

851
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:15.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

852
00:52:15.420 --> 00:52:17.099
I mean, if I'd have been there?

853
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:19.139
in that situation, I'd have been very disappointed.

854
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:20.460
That's how you want me to go.

855
00:52:20.579 --> 00:52:22.559
Yeah, no, that's true.

856
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:25.320
I'd be like, send in one of your gladiators.

857
00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:25.800
Come on.

858
00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:28.739
Yeah, I'll have a 2 leads.

859
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:31.139
Oh, they're a slave, are they?

860
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:33.059
Oh, I'm feeling a bit more re conflict.

861
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:34.320
Now, let's go. do it anyway.

862
00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:38.039
Oh, dear.

863
00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:41.159
Yeah, and so now we're going to have him executed.

864
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:42.900
So all of that was kind of pointless.

865
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:51.300
Like we just going to where we were. defiance because he's not allowed to start calling his men down.

866
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.519
I think it's because it's the climax of the story.

867
00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:58.500
Yeah, I think perhaps in order to get us back in the TV studio.

868
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:05.880
And they've sort of preempted the late show and so this is preempted, meaning that it's, you know, this is on.

869
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:11.099
Like the execution's going to be on instead of the regularly scheduled programming.

870
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:15.900
We're going back to the, yeah, we preempted the show 15 minutes.

871
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:23.519
Could, you know, going back to what you were saying earlier about the parallels between the Roman Empire and 20th century America.

872
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:26.519
Could this episode have reached a conclusion about this?

873
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:30.960
Um, yeah, I don't know.

874
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.199
No, it doesn't bother, but there are things that it could do.

875
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:37.679
I mean, you just watch it and you think all of these things that could be done better.

876
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:39.360
It's not really Roman enough.

877
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:45.900
Beyond beyond it being a quirky idea, there's sort of visually strange to watch.

878
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:47.760
What's Star Trek about this?

879
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:53.639
What's it saying about the human condition and seeking out new lives and new civilisations and all of this?

880
00:53:53.699 --> 00:53:57.840
Yeah, no, it doesn't, we don't learn anything, do we?

881
00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:59.400
It is just...

882
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:10.139
I think this is the template for series three, which is, oh, my God, wouldn't it be great if, and then there's no thought at all behind... about what happens next?

883
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:12.000
Yeah, so we just tap around.

884
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:17.760
You should get a great free title sequence where they introduce the idea and then there is faffing around for the next 40 minutes.

885
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.059
Oh, Shatner really killed that guy good.

886
00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:21.840
Look at that.

887
00:54:22.139 --> 00:54:25.679
So, yeah, and again, it's so crap.

888
00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:28.739
It's like the guy comes in with a machine gun and just kills a bunch of people.

889
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.739
No, no, no, no. terrible with that gunny.

890
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.119
He don't hit anyone at all.

891
00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:33.900
No, no.

892
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:42.719
No, but Flavius Maximus is dead now, you know, like the big old gladiator guy, whatever the Lenista guy is dead.

893
00:54:42.780 --> 00:54:45.539
Um, Yeah.

894
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:49.260
Is this the bit now in a minute where he gets a knife in the back or have I missed that bit?

895
00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:51.599
No, that's coming.

896
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:52.260
That's coming up.

897
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.840
That's the only bit of blood you see in the whole thing.

898
00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:57.900
The knife comes out and it's sort of got to be a tiny bit of jam on it.

899
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:00.420
Merrick saves him like Merrick saves him.

900
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.360
We were always sort of headed now, though, weren't we?

901
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:04.800
I think so.

902
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:09.659
Yeah, because you've got Marcus, Claudius Marcus kind of humiliating him all the time.

903
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:14.159
Yeah, so the whole thing just, it kind of just devolves into a load of action.

904
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:16.559
Yeah, yeah, crappy action.

905
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:17.639
Kind of poorly staked.

906
00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:18.179
Look at that.

907
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:18.960
What's that?

908
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:23.519
The police are knocking one another over. you know, like it's all just bullshit.

909
00:55:23.579 --> 00:55:23.820
Okay.

910
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.300
Now, the, um, oh, God, I've forgotten his name.

911
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:29.639
He looks like he's dressed up for the generation game now.

912
00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:32.099
He's got a sort of gold lame top on.

913
00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:33.659
Yeah, yeah.

914
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:37.079
So I kind of like this.

915
00:55:38.219 --> 00:55:56.400
Yeah, so now Merrick dies after saving them and then they fire the machine guns into the thing and a gorgeous reaction there from Marcus and then they've disappeared and that's the end of the episode, except we've got this embarrassing tag. sort of got his hand on his thigh like a panto villain and he's waving his knife about.

916
00:55:56.460 --> 00:55:58.320
But no one's been punished.

917
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:01.199
No one's been criticised or anything at all.

918
00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:01.800
They just go.

919
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:03.300
Yeah.

920
00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:16.320
What we've have our fun. let's go Except what we get is this thing where she says that the sun worshippers are worshipping not the sun, but the sun of God.

921
00:56:16.380 --> 00:56:35.579
And then, then we get, um, them theorising, like immediately, um, uh, Kirk says, Caesar and Christ, they had them both, and now Christianity is going to spread.

922
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:41.400
So Christianity spreads in our world, you know, gets going in the 1st century or whatever.

923
00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:44.940
Here it's just getting going in the 20th century.

924
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:48.420
And it...

925
00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:52.500
Are they saying the 2 worlds are going to converge, like ours and theirs?

926
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:53.940
just we're just late.

927
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.139
They're just late.

928
00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:56.099
Yeah, yeah.

929
00:56:56.159 --> 00:57:09.420
But, I mean, the idea that Christianity is a philosophy of total love and total brotherhood is true-ish, and, you know, on some level, it's true, but in practice, you know, like that's not quite how it goes down.

930
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:15.900
Let's count up how many people die. the Roman Empire compared to how many people died in holy wars.

931
00:57:16.019 --> 00:57:17.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

932
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.039
And I seriously think, like, you have to count.

933
00:57:20.099 --> 00:57:35.880
Well, War one. those were all Christian nations, you know, like they were all populated by Christians, all just slaughtering each other in the 1000000s, you know, like it's one of the reasons I think that Christianity loses its grip on everyone in the 20th century.

934
00:57:35.940 --> 00:57:38.039
British history is littered.

935
00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:39.719
Yeah, yeah.

936
00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:41.880
Religious monarchs.

937
00:57:41.940 --> 00:57:44.219
You have a good, good old Queen Mary, you know.

938
00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:46.260
Start the fire.

939
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:49.800
I don't think this is going to be a better earth as a result.

940
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.900
No, yeah, I don't know.

941
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:53.519
And yet they all sort of go so strange.

942
00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:54.719
Oh, how jolly.

943
00:57:54.780 --> 00:58:02.579
But it's kind of like, and then none of them will ever mention Christ again, and Christianity just never seems to be a thing.

944
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.440
So what's happening there?

945
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:12.179
And it, like, to be fair, McCoy does call Christianity a philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.

946
00:58:12.420 --> 00:58:14.460
Do you know what I mean?

947
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:18.780
So, like, and was such a, so see that shot there?

948
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:23.159
Are you watching the closing credits or have you go to the next one now?

949
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:25.019
Oh, it's the Simon Earth.

950
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:25.500
How wonderful.

951
00:58:25.619 --> 00:58:28.440
Yeah, it's a great one, isn't it?

952
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:31.619
They're just choosing to go back in time as we speak.

953
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.460
Do you remember?

954
00:58:33.300 --> 00:58:36.900
Well, we'll just pop back in time and see what's happening.

955
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:37.920
Yeah we can do that.

956
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:41.699
We're talking about, we had our arms for next week.

957
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:42.420
We've been cancelled.

958
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.199
What's that?

959
00:58:43.260 --> 00:58:45.000
We're coming back for series 3 shit.

960
00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:49.139
It's such a lovely idea.

961
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:53.519
It's such a lovely idea in concept, isn't it?

962
00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:57.239
A brotherhood of man, peace, love, and all of that for everybody.

963
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:04.380
And then you just put that idea into the heads of men and, well, it all falls apart, unfortunately.

964
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:07.079
Yeah, a strange conclusion to draw.

965
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:12.539
A very, very, very weird thing, which I did like they don't seem to explain it.

966
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.619
No one seems to acknowledge how bafflingly strange it is on memory alpha.

967
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:20.039
I went there to say, what the hell do people think of this, you know?

968
00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:22.679
Um, and maybe people think it's dumb.

969
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:23.340
I don't know.

970
00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:24.719
But...

971
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:29.280
Well, there's no quotes about this. about everything else about everyone arguing whilst making this episode.

972
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:56.280
So, like, I think the only reference to religion apart from alien religion in Star Trek, the Next Generation is Diwali, which gets a mention on data's day, which, you know, it takes place on the day of the Festival of Diwali, so that gets a mention, so Hinduism is still a thing or a tradition or something in the 24th century, but no one's Christian in Star Trek, are they?

973
00:59:56.340 --> 00:59:57.960
Like, it seems...

974
00:59:58.019 --> 01:00:02.940
So when it comes to the conclusion that we're above all of that, and actually it was more trouble than it was worth.

975
01:00:03.059 --> 01:00:06.179
Yeah, we've evolved it all.

976
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:09.780
So this is a this is the polar opposite of that conclusion.

977
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:15.960
But like I said earlier on, I just think the way that Nichelle says, it's the son of God.

978
01:00:16.019 --> 01:00:18.420
You know, like it's so great.

979
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:19.860
She's so awesome.

980
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:23.579
She's like, she's like Sigourney Weafer in Galaxy. to believe it.

981
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:29.699
Do you know, she goes, I've only got 5 lines in this fucking episode and I'm going to make them all count.

982
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:31.320
But she nails it.

983
01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:32.820
It's superb.

984
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:42.539
I have a suspicion that Gene Brodenbury wrote the bulk of this episode and that fabulous scene inside the cell between McCoy and Spock.

985
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:44.099
Gene Coombe wrote that bit.

986
01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:50.940
Now, I'm not saying Gene Coop wrote everything great and Roddenberry couldn't write anything because clearly...

987
01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:53.039
He did some good scripts in season one.

988
01:00:53.099 --> 01:00:55.019
It's just everything after that.

989
01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.300
I think his toy box was emptied after that.

990
01:00:57.659 --> 01:01:00.360
But that was just a bit...

991
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:04.019
It's not flat because it's quite interesting to look at.

992
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.860
It's doing some weird things and we like weird.

993
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:09.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

994
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:29.280
I think I think you were right in recognising, and I hadn't thought of this at the time, that it's crap in the particular way that crap series 3 is crap, where there's a setting and some odd things going on, but basically most of the time we're standing around talking and the villain is being a villain.

995
01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:30.659
Yeah, space hippies.

996
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:31.440
That would be a fun idea.

997
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:33.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

998
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:35.219
And then we all just kind of hang around.

999
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.599
Like there's no plot.

1000
01:01:36.659 --> 01:01:38.400
Like nothing, nothing happens.

1001
01:01:38.460 --> 01:01:41.940
What do you want in television?

1002
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:47.940
What if a load of evil children beamed onto the enterprise and start turning everyone into killers?

1003
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.139
And that's a great idea until you do it and then you realise it's really shit, you know?

1004
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:55.739
What if Spock lost his brain?

1005
01:01:56.099 --> 01:01:58.980
And they had to drive him by remote control.

1006
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:03.960
No, that was just a terrible idea. terrible, terrible idea.

1007
01:02:04.019 --> 01:02:08.039
I think June Coon was like, right, I don't ever want to write for this show again.

1008
01:02:08.099 --> 01:02:12.780
I'm going to write this script and they'll never ask me back. all forget my telephone number.

1009
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:16.980
Mark Daniels looked at the script and went, I'll never directing this show again.

1010
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:20.460
Jane Roddenbury is like, is this what we're doing?

1011
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:20.940
I'm out.

1012
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:21.840
Freddie Freiburger.

1013
01:02:21.900 --> 01:02:22.320
It's yours.

1014
01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:25.199
Yeah, it's very, very strange.

1015
01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:30.960
I was expecting to really quite like this. and I was bored more often than not.

1016
01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:32.699
Yeah.

1017
01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:36.900
In a way that even the best and the worst of the original series hasn't before me.

1018
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:38.940
Yeah, a bit disappointing.

1019
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:39.840
Yeah.

1020
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:54.780
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to find out what we're watching next.

1021
01:02:54.900 --> 01:03:00.659
We're leaving Imperial Rome behind, and it is time to go somewhere else.

1022
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:01.920
Where else are we going?

1023
01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:03.780
We may not begin, though.

1024
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:05.159
I think there's other Roman episodes.

1025
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.679
We may be going back to Imperial Rome.

1026
01:03:07.739 --> 01:03:13.980
I have decided because the last couple of times I have chosen where we're going.

1027
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:18.300
It's been primarily 90s trek.

1028
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:25.500
So I am going to put in every Kurtzman show, including Short Treks, and see what we get.

1029
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:31.079
But chances are it be a discovery, because I think there's, it's, that's the highest percentage.

1030
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:31.679
Most of them.

1031
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:32.219
Yeah.

1032
01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:33.840
Okay.

1033
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:35.280
Oh, one we've done.

1034
01:03:35.340 --> 01:03:39.420
Your random Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode is Strange New Worlds.

1035
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.219
Series one, episode one.

1036
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.840
Okay.

1037
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:45.960
Your random Star Trek lower deck?

1038
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:46.920
Oh my god.

1039
01:03:46.980 --> 01:03:47.639
Look.

1040
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:49.079
What is it?

1041
01:03:49.139 --> 01:03:52.260
A mathematically perfect redemption.

1042
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:53.639
Oh, yes, so good.

1043
01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:55.920
Season 3 of the best episodes ever.

1044
01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:57.239
Episode seven.

1045
01:03:57.300 --> 01:03:58.980
Yep, yep.

1046
01:03:59.039 --> 01:03:59.880
Peanut Hamper.

1047
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:01.679
Oh, on the planet of Third.

1048
01:04:01.739 --> 01:04:03.119
That is so great.

1049
01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:05.579
And Lodex is coming back soon as well, isn't it?

1050
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:06.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1051
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:09.300
So it's back in October, just in a few weeks time.

1052
01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:10.320
So yes.

1053
01:04:10.380 --> 01:04:12.239
That might be the best episode.

1054
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:13.619
That's lower decks.

1055
01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:15.420
You know, really good, isn't it?

1056
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:16.679
I love it so much.

1057
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:17.519
She's so funny.

1058
01:04:17.639 --> 01:04:20.760
Just brilliant. totally breaking with the format.

1059
01:04:20.820 --> 01:04:22.019
Yes, let's do it.

1060
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:23.579
Let's Absolutely.

1061
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:24.659
Brilliant.

1062
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:43.139
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1063
01:04:43.260 --> 01:04:48.599
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1064
01:04:48.659 --> 01:04:54.119
This episode was recorded on the 10th of September 2024 and released on the 13th of September.

1065
01:04:54.179 --> 01:04:58.739
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Lower Decks, a mathematically perfect redemption.

1066
01:05:16.860 --> 01:05:18.539
I didn't know you could do that till the other day.

1067
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.219
Yeah, have you seen that?

1068
01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:23.940
Apple Podcasts has just transcribed our whole, all of our episodes.

1069
01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:25.559
I didn't ask for that.

1070
01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:31.320
I mean, I mean, actually, if I download them and make them searchable.

1071
01:05:31.380 --> 01:05:32.099
Yeah, that's right.

1072
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:34.920
He's so... search for jammer.

1073
01:05:34.980 --> 01:05:36.539
1500.

1074
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:41.460
Well, search for them.

1075
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:46.679
Bem and Jabber and Stars.

1076
01:05:46.739 --> 01:05:48.119
Yeah.

1077
01:05:48.179 --> 01:05:49.019
Yeah.

1078
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:52.500
One BM is 2.5 stars. exchange, right?

1079
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:55.860
Yeah. did do that once. did, yeah, yeah.

1080
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:58.559
So that's one. 5 thems, is it?

1081
01:05:58.559 --> 01:06:03.059
How about I less do this?

1082
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:04.500
All right, okay.

1083
01:06:07.559 --> 01:06:10.199
Hey, Joe. Hi.